We Went Through The Epstein Birthday Book and Were Shocked By What We Learned

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We Went Through The Epstein Birthday Book and Were Shocked By What We Learned"

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Date: September 10, 2025
Episode Theme:
Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes conduct a deep dive into Jeffrey Epstein’s notorious “50th Birthday Book,” recently made public by a congressional subpoena. They go page by page through the cache of personal notes, letters, stories, and photos from Epstein’s inner circle, revealing a disturbing culture of complicity and enabling among some of the most powerful people in Epstein's life. The pair discuss the shockingly cavalier attitudes toward Epstein’s behavior, the participation of public figures, and how the book offers insight into the world that enabled Epstein, shifting the conversation beyond the search for a “client list.”

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Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

1. Origins and Contents of the Birthday Book

• Background: The “birthday book” was assembled by Ghislaine Maxwell for Epstein’s 50th birthday over 20 years ago, including stories, mementos, photos, and messages from friends, colleagues, and associates.
• Initial Innocence: Opens with childhood photos, certificates, and a letter from Epstein's mother reminiscing about his birth.
  • Amy Robach: “She even included… a note from his mom. This is so interesting… what was his relationship like with his parents?” (09:28)

2. Themes of Enablement and Complicity

• Enabler List vs. Client List: Randy Kogan, a therapist for Epstein victims, reframes the search for a “client list” as a search for an “enabler list,” emphasizing that many were aware and complicit, even through seeming “harmless” banter.
  • T.J. Holmes: “It’s not a matter of an Epstein client list. It’s an Epstein enabler list. When you read through this birthday book… that makes even more sense.” (05:43)
• Tone of the Book: The notes reveal a “boys’ club” mentality marked by sexual bravado, objectification, and dismissiveness, even from women in Epstein’s circle.
  • Amy Robach: “It was all about boobs. Some of this was nine-year-old boys passing notes in grade school about girls boobs… Even the women were joining in.” (04:58)

3. Salacious and Alarming Notes

• Underage References: Multiple letters fondly recall times with “very young girls, probably just 17,” and in some cases, even younger, with explicit, joking reference to sexual encounters.
  • Amy Robach: “Adults are already pointing out the fact that they are with very young girls, underage girls… recalling these as fond times.” (12:23)
  • Amy Robach: “There was a Rabbi's daughter… bring her up to your mother’s house and make her take her top off so we could touch her boobs.” (13:10)

4. Big Names and Notable Inclusions

• Donald Trump’s Note: Originally the headline focus due to a crude sketch and references to “secrets.” Trump denies authorship, but handwriting experts authenticate the signature.
  • T.J. Holmes: “He says he did not write it… but I’ve even seen handwriting experts in several publications absolutely authenticate that that in fact is Donald Trump's signature.” (26:06)
  • Amy Robach: “Everyone was talking about the Trump letter. But what about this bizarre entry where there’s a picture of Epstein accepting… [a] check signed Donald Trump… Sells fully depreciated woman to Donald Trump for $22,500.” (28:28)
• Bill Clinton’s Note: Hard to decipher, but includes reference to Epstein’s “childlike curiosity,” which Robach and Holmes point out is alarming in context.
  • Amy Robach: “He basically says it’s reassuring, isn’t it? And then something about… Epstein’s childlike curiosity.” (14:33)
• Alan Dershowitz: Leaves a note bragging about diverting Vanity Fair article focus from Epstein to Bill Clinton.
  • Amy Robach (quoting): “As a birthday gift to you, I managed to obtain an early version of the Vanity Unfair article. I talked them into changing the focus from you to Bill Clinton… Happy birthday.” (15:19)
• Nathan Myhrvold (Former Microsoft Exec): Sends animal photos: zebras having sex and urinating, under the pretext of being a wildlife photographer. His spokesperson claims he can’t recall the submission.
  • Amy Robach: “He is a wildlife photographer who, quote, regularly shares photos of and writes about animal behavior.” (18:33)
  • T.J. Holmes: “Zebra sex is one of his niche areas.” (19:47)

5. Memorable and Disturbing Illustrations

• Explicit Sketches:
  • A hand-drawn illustration depicts Epstein in 1983 handing balloons to little girls, and 20 years later receiving massages from young women, suggesting the grooming pipeline.
    • Amy Robach: “It shows Jeffrey Epstein handing out balloons to little girls… and then side by side on the other side, it shows him… getting massages from four blondes. It’s just icky. It’s almost like you’re showing him grooming little girls so that then he can get his sexual pleasures.” (26:52)
    • T.J. Holmes: “That’s the enabler thing people are talking about. Everybody knew… It wasn’t even a secret.” (27:59)
• Commodification of Women:
  • A mock oversized check “selling” a woman to Donald Trump for $22,500, captioned “Sells fully depreciated woman to Donald Trump… showed early people skills, too.”
    • Amy Robach: “Literally talking about selling a woman.” (29:41)
    • T.J. Holmes: “They were human commodities to be exchanged almost… commodities to be traded. They went up and down in value.” (29:47)

6. A View into the Mechanism of Grooming

• First-Person Account:
  • A young woman describes being recruited by Ghislaine to massage Epstein; her story details how seemingly innocent encounters morphed into intimate and spontaneous arrangements, characteristic of grooming.
    • Amy Robach (reading from the book): “She writes, I received a call from Ghislaine… [to] work on her employer… You were sitting behind an enormous desk… After a few minutes, you gave me that squinched eye look, a mix of calculation and enjoyment… Within 10 minutes of my being there, you asked me to leave with you guys that night to go to Florida… My life was forever changed.” (32:37–34:29)
    • T.J. Holmes: “10 minutes. Hop on my private plane with me and go to Florida. 10 minutes. He’s offering and showing and… she was a target of his. That was his M.O.” (35:01)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the “Boys Club” Culture:

  • Amy Robach: “It was actually jaw-dropping just how cavalierly some of these lewd stories and pictures were referenced by a lot of powerful, wealthy folks.” (03:45)

• On Enablement:

  • T.J. Holmes: “It’s an Epstein enabler list… these folks aren’t participating in anything illegal, but they are fully aware of what’s happening.” (05:43)

• On the Trump Note Authentication:

  • Amy Robach: “I’ve even seen handwriting experts in several publications absolutely authenticate that that in fact is Donald Trump’s signature. But Donald Trump says it is not his signature.” (26:06)

• On the “Zebra Sex” Photo Defense:

  • Amy Robach: “A spokeswoman for him previously said he didn’t recall the submission… he is a wildlife photographer who regularly shares photos of and writes about animal behavior.” (18:33)
  • T.J. Holmes: “Zebra sex is one of his niche areas.” (19:47)

• On the Mascot Illustration/Grooming Pipeline:

  • Amy Robach: “It’s just icky. It’s almost like you’re showing him grooming little girls so that then he can get his sexual pleasures.” (27:22)
  • T.J. Holmes: “That’s the enabler thing people are talking about… It wasn’t even a secret.” (27:59)

• On Commodification of Women:

  • Amy Robach: “Literally talking about selling a woman.” (29:41)
  • T.J. Holmes: “They were human commodities to be exchanged almost… commodities to be traded.” (29:47)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:06 — Introduction of the Epstein Birthday Book; headlines on Trump’s note
• 04:32–06:21 — How the book reveals “enabler list” and patterns inside Epstein’s circle
• 09:28 — The beginnings of the book: early family and childhood mementos
• 11:49–13:42 — Shockingly cavalier notes about girls’ ages and sexual escapades
• 14:08 — Bill Clinton’s note; the controversy of “childlike curiosity”
• 15:19 — Alan Dershowitz’s letter; proud claim of refocusing reporting away from Epstein
• 17:41–19:47 — Nathan Myhrvold’s zebra photos and the odd defense
• 26:02–29:41 — Donald Trump’s note (denial, handwriting authentication, the “selling” of women)
• 26:52–28:28 — Disturbing yet “light-hearted” sketch of Epstein’s grooming and abuse pipeline
• 32:37–35:38 — First-person testimony detailing grooming and how quickly young women were swept into Epstein’s circle

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Tone and Takeaways

• Robach and Holmes maintain a blend of disbelief, sadness, and dark humor in their discussion. Jokes about the zebra photos are offset by visible discomfort and shock at the contents of the letters and sketches.
• The tone shifts between gallows humor and sober analysis, with repeated reminders that what the book reveals is not simply “gossip” but a documentation of a culture that enabled, joked about, and normalized Epstein’s abusive predilections.
• Key takeaway: The book is less a list of direct perpetrators and more a window into a world where enablers, through humor, complicity, and silence, allowed abuse to flourish.

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Final Reflections

• Both hosts agree: “This was way more eye-opening and insightful than anything I’ve seen before… This actually was substantive and educational.” (Amy Robach, 36:27/36:42)
• The book is a disturbing artifact—providing a raw, unfiltered look at how those around Epstein saw, ignored, and even celebrated the red-flag behavior that the world now recognizes for what it was.

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For those who haven't listened:
This episode provides an unvarnished walk-through of an unsettling social document. Robach and Holmes lay bare a culture of complicity, shifting the broader conversation from who was directly involved, to who enabled, celebrated, and joked about the abuse along the way.

Transcript

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[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there folks. It is Tuesday, September 9, and the Epstein birthday book is out. And while so many people were focused on the particular note in there that's allegedly from President Trump, there is so much more telling and eyebrow raising content in there. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. You just said it before we started recording, you said so much focus was on that note. I think now people are starting to now just realize just what else is in there. And I guess it gives us really some insight into this man's world.

[Amy Robach]

Well, it also gives us some insight into how most of at least the friends who were included in this birthday book were very much aware of his penchant for being with young women, his obsession with breasts. It was actually jaw dropping just how cavalierly some of these lewd stories and pictures were referenced by a lot of powerful wealthy folks. So yes, everyone was focused on the President Trump letter, but there is just incredible salacious things in here. And also I think it's interesting we were all waiting for an Epstein client list, but this in a lot of ways just is a window into his world that we haven't truly seen like we're seeing now.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. And it's coming from people in first person who were in that world who had no idea that anything they were writing was ever going to become public. And it's so interesting because you're right, a theme emerges from this thing. It's like a, a boys club, like a really privileged boys club that really is very dismissive of people and things around as if everyone is there for their take.

[Amy Robach]

It was all about boobs. I actually, I said it. I felt like some of this was nine year old boys passing notes in grade school about girls boobs. It was just, even the women were joining in. There were boob prints. Like someone put paint on a boob and instead of kissing a letter, they put their boob. I mean it was just, it was bizarre to me in a lot of ways. And obviously there is so much about Jeffrey Epstein and all the allegations that this shouldn't be that shocking. And yet I think to see the other people around him who were participating not in anything illegal, not in anything untoward or even immoral, but just the fact that they were laughing it up, that's a little shocking.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. You know, we were talking to the lady. Her name is slipping my mind. Randy Kogan was a therapist who has been working with Epstein victims for decades. And she said it's not a matter of a Epstein client list. It's an Epstein enabler list. There's a list of enablers. And when you read through this birthday book, and we're going to go through some of these details and read them word for word, for you, Robes, when you read that, that makes even more sense, an enabler list that these folks aren't participating in anything illegal, but they are fully aware of what's happening.

[Amy Robach]

And that's what Randy was pointing to in terms of the transparency that a lot of Epstein victims are asking for. They're asking for there to be accountability for folks who turned a blind eye to what they clearly saw was going on. And so this is a little insight into who may have had some of that access.

[T.J. Holmes]

All right, so let's get you first just caught up. You remember, this became a big. It was earlier in the summer, Wall Street Journal publishes an article in which they talk about the existence of this 50th birthday book that Ghislaine Maxwell put together for Jeffrey Epstein. Now, the part of their reporting was the fact that in that birthday book, it included a note from President Donald Trump, who was then just Donald Trump, saying Happy Birthday, giving birthday wishes. They reported at the time, that note included an outline, essentially a crude drawing of a woman's naked body and included also a line at the bottom. What was the line about secrets. Here's to many more secrets or something. That's what they reported. So that note and that birthday book were subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee from the Epstein estate. They finally handed it over to the committee. The committee, Democrats in particular, couldn't wait correct. To get that note out. And I think it might have been the first thing that went out they put out on social media. So a lot of focus robes was on that note. And we see it in the full text and we'll go through that as well. But the rest of that book, I think people are going to start to catch up here and this thing is going to be of More and more interest than just a few notes and a few names.

[Amy Robach]

It's fascinating because, you know, you and I had seen the headlines and I really didn't think there was going to be much more to it. And as you and I really started digging in and going through this book page by page, we were both shocked at everything we were reading. There is a lot to unpack, there's a lot to digest with this birthday book, more so than I would have imagined.

[T.J. Holmes]

All right, and it's Ghislaine Maxwell that put it together. So, yes, this 50th birthday book, it does start with a letter from her. Essentially, it opens up with Glenn writing to. Writing to Jeffrey Epstein. How many years ago is this? 20 what plus years ago when he turned 50. But these are words she wrote to him decades ago for his 50th birthday. Says, quote, jeffrey, the idea behind the book was simply to gather stories and old photographs to jog your memory about places, people and different events. I hope you will derive as much pleasure looking through it as I did putting it together for you. Happy birthday, love. Ghislaine sets up innocent enough, right? But the way they just. That any other friend would talk to anybody in our lives, a friend would talk to you like that. It just.

[Amy Robach]

You don't have a birthday book like this one.

[T.J. Holmes]

I don't have anything close to this. But it's wild to now go back and to see what their dynamic and the friendship was, knowing all that we know now, to see how it goes now. And it opens with, I mean, she put some work into it. It had a copy of his birth certificate, even had, like, baby pictures. It had his Cub Scout certificate from when he was a kid. So she put a lot of effort into this.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, that's right. She had him with two other kids, it looks like she said your first girlfriend or the first girlfriend. There was a first D date photo of him from 1991. And then she even included, again, this is probably where the sweetness ends, but with a note from his mom, who. This is so interesting. Just, this is, again, insight. You know, what was his relationship like with his parents, given the monster he's now turned into, or the one we now know he was. But this was the note from Jeffrey Epstein's mom at the beginning of his birthday book, driving to the hospital that cold, snowy day in January to become parents of a beautiful, healthy son. Jeff, you have been a good son from day one, and we have been proud of you ever since.

[T.J. Holmes]

Don't doubt that. Isn't that something to read those words now, it's wild to read that now. So now things from that point on. And again, it's about 200 pages they released from this book to go through. But there are several notes. It's divided up into sections. Actually Rose, let me find the sections here. Again, it's friends, family, there's a girlfriends section. Then there's a girl dash friends section. There's a special assistance, there's a business, Brooklyn science. So there it's just kind of categorized to who all these people were in his life. So it is divided up in that way. Now they get going. A friend, I'm not sure exactly who this one was in particular, but a friend writes a section, a note and the title of this friend's section. Essentially recalling some of their happy fun times, their partying times. But the section is called Girls on My Boat. Here is one line quote, we picked up girls on beach, we went out on boat. I tell them with knife in my hand to take suits off. But Warren tells don't worry, he's just joking. He continues quote, I was porking some girl in bed and Jeff brings in the maid to make the bed. She left screaming and never came back. Now I'm serious. Some bunch, bunch of college knuckleheads have all kinds of stories. Again, we're now having to read these things in context of what we now know.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And the. There were some. Several other ones that were not seemingly innocent college memories. This one also from friends. And there were names. When it came to any woman who was named, they redacted the name obviously because they had to assume they could be potential victims of sexual violence or abuse. So name and name. Two very young girls, probably just 17 and were riding in my father's Caddy park Avenue, top down, smooching it up in car, drop dead laughing.

[T.J. Holmes]

So wow, what that tells us, I mean the, the whoever's writing this, adults are already pointing out the fact that they are with very young girls, underage girls that they are underage and putting this in this book for a 50 year old man. Yeah. Recalling these as fond times. And this is a theme throughout and talking about as if it's like nothing, it's fodder.

[Amy Robach]

It's actually, it's haha, laugh, laugh, joke, joke screaming underage. There's one with a redacted name, the Rabbi's daughter. So you know, it's just, there's just, it's constant machismo like bragging about conquests.

[T.J. Holmes]

This note again about the same section about Rabbi's daughter is what that one was called. Again, it said it had a redacted name. So it Blank, the rabbi's daughter. So we can only assume. All right. About the age. But it said in that section, and I'm quoting, Jeff would call the house rabbi's voice and say, this is Blank's father. I would bring her up to your mother's house and make her take her top off so we could touch her boobs. End quote.

[Amy Robach]

This. These are birthday notes and memories, fond memories that are all compile in a fun, loving birthday book. This is wild to actually think that these are all the memories. And they, like you said, they have a theme.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah.

[Amy Robach]

Throughout. This isn't. This isn't just a one off or oh, wow, look at this extreme note. They all are very similar.

[T.J. Holmes]

Now, as far as big names go. Robes. I. I pulled this one up for you and I. We enlarged it on the screen here because we couldn't make it out. But there is a note allegedly in there, purportedly from Bill Clinton. And you see his signature there, but it's just a few lines handwritten. But it starts by saying, Happy 50th. And I was trying to get you to translate. I couldn't really make out exactly what he was saying, but there's a couple. At least one line we could read. And a lot of people are picking up on.

[Amy Robach]

Well, we also determined that Bill Clinton must be a lefty because of the way he wrote it. You know, it's like slanted that weird way. And so it's hard to read what he actually wrote, but he basically says it's reassuring, isn't it? And then something about praising or referring to Epstein's childlike curiosity.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. And again, we. We tried, and we could try to get what it really is almost impossible to make out some of his handwriting, and we couldn't. But there is a note purportedly in there from Bill Clinton. Didn't say a whole lot, but at least you'll see quoted a lot of places. At least he referred to Epstein's childlike curiosity that a lot of people are picking up on. Yeah. Alan Dershowitz. That's another name.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[T.J. Holmes]

And again, I was asking earlier, where did we first.

[Amy Robach]

Well, he's been accused by some of the victims, and he has vehemently denied ever being a part of anything untoward or illegal. But he certainly has. He was Epstein's lawyer and had been close to him. And so, yes, he leaves a note in the birthday book that says, as a birthday gift to you, I managed to Obtain an early version of the Vanity Unfair article. I talked them into changing the focus from you to Bill Clinton. As you will see from the enclosed excerpt. Happy birthday and best regards, Alan Dershowitz.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, we like you said, his name has been out there. And again, you were right. He first. At least a lot of people got familiar with him from the O.J.

[Amy Robach]

Correct trial. Yes. He was the fate. One of the famed lawyers. Harvard law professor.

[T.J. Holmes]

Famed. This is a. Yeah. This is a constitutional expert deemed probably one of the considered one of the best lawyers in the country.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[T.J. Holmes]

And his name has been affiliated and attached for so long. Another note in here from a friend, former Microsoft.

[Amy Robach]

This one, I thought this was the former Microsoft CEO.

[T.J. Holmes]

Was it? Okay, I don't have the name attached and I don't want to assign it if it ain't true, but there is a note in there from someone who first kind of starts off about kind of joking about Ghislaine reaching out and saying, hey, I want you to put together a note for Jeffrey. And so they're making a joke about how difficult it was to come up with something. And they say, quote, I have agonized long and hard about what to write for your birthday. In the end, I have wound up with this silly excuse for a missive, neither profound nor funny. But I've included a few photos that I took on my recent trip to Africa. They seemed more appropriate than anything I could put in words. And then the pictures that seemed more appropriate than anything this person could put in words was a picture of zebras having sex and urinating. While it's going on is the picture, picture that was included that was more appropriate than any words this person could put together. And this person, Rose, was billionaire and.

[Amy Robach]

Former Microsoft executive Nathan. I'm not going to say his last name Right. Myrovold. But interesting. Interestingly enough, now that this book has come out, he's been asked or they have been asked about these pictures. And a spokeswoman, spokeswoman for him previously said he didn't recall the submission, which is what we're hearing from a lot of these big names who have been included in this birthday book. They're not denying it, but they just say they don't recall sending in anything for Epstein's birthday. But they also added that he is a wildlife photographer who regularly shares photos of and writes about animal behavior.

[T.J. Holmes]

This. This is.

[Amy Robach]

That's ridiculous.

[T.J. Holmes]

I was going to say a stretch. Somebody wrote that down and sent it out.

[Amy Robach]

A spokeswoman for him.

[T.J. Holmes]

Wait, say it again for me.

[Amy Robach]

I'M reading a quote. This is in the Wall Street Journal. Just giving that source right there. But it says that he is a wildlife photographer who, quote, regularly shares photos of and writes about animal behavior.

[T.J. Holmes]

End quote. And in the note, I've included a few photos that I took on my recent trip. They seem more appropriate than anything I could put in words. There are two zebras having sex and pissing.

[Amy Robach]

Right. It's. I don't know what that says, but I don't want to know.

[T.J. Holmes]

But he's a wildlife photographer.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. That's how he expresses himself, through photos.

[T.J. Holmes]

He captured this image.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[T.J. Holmes]

We should commission a photo for his next trip.

[Amy Robach]

I just thought that the response to that entry was hilarious, so I wanted to include it.

[T.J. Holmes]

You know, we needed that. We needed a moment of levity. Levity that was necessary.

[Amy Robach]

Ridiculous.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, that's.

[Amy Robach]

Sorry.

[T.J. Holmes]

Just deny. Just say, don't. Remember that. Don't add the other part. Like this is a reason. You know what? This might have been why he sent it. The dude loves taking wildlife photos.

[Amy Robach]

That makes it even funnier. I'm actually really happy that the spokesperson included that.

[T.J. Holmes]

Zebra sex is one of his niche areas.

[Amy Robach]

He knows just where to find Cool.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, that note, you were telling me about it earlier. Now it's even funnier. Folks, sometimes this stuff, you need to laugh. But I assure you, when we describe the illustration that is in this book, it's nowhere close to a laughing matter. It is beyond shocking, and it accurately predicts and shows us that's exactly what Jeffrey Epstein was up to all these years. DraftKings Casino has your playbook for gaming action all season long. Play thousands of popular slots for a shot at jackpots. Over 400 million has already been awarded.

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Youm think you know Snap Judgment. Yes. It's on NPR. It's a podcast. It's storytelling. But snap has gone deeper, stranger, wilder. We've taken you places at the New York Times, the Rolling Stones, the Ambies, the Webbies, the Gracie all stood up for.

[T.J. Holmes]

Welcome to the podcast hall of fame.

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Glenn Washington award winning stories, original beats, soundscapes that drop you into the heart of the story. Find Snap Touch from KQED every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast.

[T.J. Holmes]

Continuing now with the Damn. I don't. You know, we're gonna keep it. I'm gonna keep it because I always give Robok a hard time when she comes back from the break and something's weird.

[Amy Robach]

Your voice sounded like it was in stereo. That was hilarious.

[T.J. Holmes]

Excuse me, folks. That won't happen again. All right, we're gonna keep it. We're gonna keep it. All right. But we are continuing now, folks. We are. This book, this birthday book we've been hearing about for all summer, well, it's out now as a part of a subpoena, the House Oversight Committee to the Epstein estate. This book is out. A lot of people were focusing on, of course, robes, the birthday note that Donald Trump wrote. Allegedly. He says he didn't. We need to continue to say that. He says he did not. He didn't say, I don't remember. He said, I did not write it. I don't write like that. And I certainly would be drawing a crude image.

[Amy Robach]

He also says that's not his signature. He claims that he had nothing to do with that.

[T.J. Holmes]

Have you seen the comparisons they had?

[Amy Robach]

Yes, it's pretty spot on. I've even seen handwriting expert in several publications absolutely authenticate that that in fact is Donald Trump's signature. But Donald Trump says it is not his signature.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, so this is where we are. So we've been going through some of the notes, other things in there. I know a lot of people looking for big names, but it's not just names. This really does give you some insight into this world. Hilarious still about the zebra and the pictures and that's no doubt. Okay, but someone. There is a drawing in there. I know this sketch. You know the one I'm talking about? You might have been pointed out to me first, but there is a sketch, robes. And this is as disturbing icky as it gets.

[Amy Robach]

It really is. So it's an illustration of it says 1983 underneath it, and it shows Jeffrey Epstein handing out balloons to little girls, like elementary school girls. And then side by side on the other side of it. It shows him in 2003 in a beach chair getting massages from four blondes. They're all in G string bathing suits or bikinis. And I think one has a tattoo of him.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yes. His initials, his initial heart around.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. One of them is working on his feet, two are working on his chest and shoulders, and one is working on his genital area. So it's just really. It's just icky. It's almost like you're showing him grooming little girls so that then he can get his sexual pleasures.

[T.J. Holmes]

Sweetheart, it's not. You said it's almost like it is. I cannot believe that is there.

[Amy Robach]

And that one of his friends drew the picture thinking it was funny and a way to celebrate him and knew.

[T.J. Holmes]

Exactly what was going on. This is as disturbing as it gets. It is telling the story of Jeffrey EPSTEIN that in 1983, here you are doing this with these girls, with these girls, giving them a treat, and then they end up with you 20 years later, massaging your body. That one. It's like a. Just a. That's the enabler thing people are talking about. Everybody knew it was not. It wasn't even a secret.

[Amy Robach]

Not even a little bit. And then, you know, everyone was talking about the Trump letter. But what about this bizarre entry where there's a picture of Epstein accepting, you know, one of those big, oversized checks, as if you won something on a game show or the lottery. And it says $22,500. It was signed to Jeffrey Epstein and signed Donald Trump. DJ Trump. DJ Trump. And then underneath it, the caption said, jeffrey showing early talents with money and women Sells fully depreciated woman. And they actually had the woman's name. It was just redacted. Sells fully depreciated woman to Donald Trump for 22,500 showed early people skills, too. Even though I handled the deal, I didn't get any of the money or the girl.

[T.J. Holmes]

What the actual fuck. I don't know what that mean. Wow.

[Amy Robach]

And there was a woman in the picture, but her face was blacked out as well as. So I don't know if the redacted name was that woman who was shown there as the prize.

[T.J. Holmes]

And Trump was not in the picture.

[Amy Robach]

Trump was not in the picture, but still a part of this bizarre check. And this.

[T.J. Holmes]

Ha ha, ha, ha.

[Amy Robach]

Literally talking about selling a woman.

[T.J. Holmes]

It was a.

[Amy Robach]

A depreciated woman.

[T.J. Holmes]

They were. They were human commodities to be exchanged almost.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[T.J. Holmes]

They passed not around for sure. Yeah. And talking about them as if they.

[Amy Robach]

Were objects to Please.

[T.J. Holmes]

Them were commodities to be traded. They went up and down in value.

[Amy Robach]

To be groomed and then to be abused and then to be traded and then to be tossed away.

[T.J. Holmes]

It's, it's fascinating. Just the language and this is his.

[Amy Robach]

Birthday book is a, an illustration of his abuse and the fact that people were aware of it. And not just that they were aware of it, they were. That they joked about it and that they celebrated it.

[T.J. Holmes]

And it came with little role illustrations of his abuse. This is, it is absolutely fascinating. Another note from a friend here saying, dear Jeffrey, I wanted to get you what you want. So here it is. And just had drawing of breasts again.

[Amy Robach]

A nine year old boy. Yes, that is what nine year old boys would do. I don't understand that.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, this next one here you see this one ropes from a co worker. This is a disturbing note as well.

[Amy Robach]

Jeffrey. I remember in the mid-1970s you being a star salesman for our Tax Advantage Strategies and hedged option program. I was running an account for Bob Maxwell. You always had the ability to know everyone and be charming. Was that when you first discovered the Maxwell teenage daughter? Happy birthday Elliot Woelk. What I mean, unabashedly discussing seducing underage girls.

[T.J. Holmes]

We have the, I mean the text of the Trump note. I, I don't even know if that's it.

[Amy Robach]

It's out. It's not even anything compared.

[T.J. Holmes]

It's out there and that's fine. But it is, I think more people are going to start to read and this does read so differently. You know what it reads differently. It reads differently from the transcript of Ghislaine Maxwell's interview with the Justice Department.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, it does.

[T.J. Holmes]

Right? It reads without these folks even trying to get into anything salacious and have to be interviewed. It reads so much differently. Robes, one last thing I wanted to leave folks with and I have it up here and it's a longer entry, but it is from a young lady who is writing and saying she loves him and that he did so much for her life. But Robes, I was amazed and how all the massage things we hear about and how girls are being groomed and they get ended up on planes and whatnot. Again, this gives us insight into what that world was and how so many of these young women girls got caught up in it. So this is, we're just going to start. It's a little longer. But I thought this was interesting. Rose.

[Amy Robach]

She writes, I received a call from Ghislaine, who I had worked on massaged twice in the last few months to Work on her employer. He is a businessman and wants you to work on his feet at his desk. She said, my first thought was corns and bunions and a curmudgeon of a man. When I first set eyes on you on March 22, 1993, you were sitting behind an enormous desk in your office at home on 69th street in a jean shirt and sweatpants. And your feet were possibly the most beautiful that I had ever seen belonging to a man. I remember thinking that you looked more. You looked like a more handsome Ralph Lauren. We moved over to a sitting area and I sat on a footstool and worked on your feet while you were in an armchair, watched me and Ghislaine work on your shoulders. After a few minutes, you gave me that squinched eye look. A mix of calculation and enjoyment. Both devouring and yet submissive.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, can I stop you there for a second? What are you hearing? I hear so much about massages and I hear so much about Ghislaine and who was massaging whom and what was going on to hear this young lady, she's setting up a story and she has a positive experience, but randomly show up, massage a man's feet while he's sitting at a desk, and here he is getting massage from his ex girlfriend, I guess, Ghislaine Maxwell and someone who's been brought into the fold by Ghislaine Maxwell. Yeah, she said, I received the call. She's there. You're gonna work on his feet while he's at his desk?

[Amy Robach]

Yep. And then, as most of the victim survivors will tell you, that would escalate each time. Go a little further up the leg, go up the thigh. And that's exactly what ended up to your point.

[T.J. Holmes]

Can you pick it up where you left?

[Amy Robach]

Yes, that is so you and moaned a bit and I thought, okay, this is going well. Within 10 minutes of my being there, you asked me have to leave. Oh, sorry. To leave with you guys that night to go to Florida. I had never heard of anything so spontaneous and far fetched. And yet I know that you were serious or I knew that you were serious. I had a previous engagement. I was throwing a dinner party and so you said you would see me when you got back and have your security call and schedule. You did. And my life was forever changed.

[T.J. Holmes]

Wow. 10 minutes. Hop on my private plane with me and go to Florida. 10 minutes. I mean, he. How is that not the most exciting thing in life? He's offering and showing and I don't know who this young lady is. And what ultimately happened. But she goes on to write this glowing note and says, I love you and signs off, when I'm with you, I laugh like a little girl and feel like a woman. And then she signs off I love.

[Amy Robach]

You with, oh my goodness, a heart. And then a picture of her butt.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, but she spoke so fondly of him. Don't know what ultimately happened with her or to her. But she spoke so fondly of a guy who for all intents and purposes, she was a target of his. That was his M.O.

[Amy Robach]

Yes.

[T.J. Holmes]

She was being groomed and she's speaking so highly and favorably and loving about him.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. I mean, everyone had different experiences and everyone felt like they had different levels of choice perhaps in the matter. And hopefully she was old enough to know the difference. Well, so many of his victims were not.

[T.J. Holmes]

This is, it's fascinating. And look, we've learned a lot ropes. I think this book gave me more insight than I have to a lot of this story for sure.

[Amy Robach]

I mean this was, this was way more eye opening and insightful than anything I've seen before. And we've kind of rolled our eyes and it's you kind of glaze over. Oh, more Epstein files. Because they haven't really shown anything. This actually was substantive and, and educational.

[T.J. Holmes]

All right, well folks, we appreciate you as always listening with us. Of course. Top right corner of the screen, the Apple podcast app on our show page. Just a little button that says follow. You can click that and you can get our updates and don't have to go looking for them. They'll come right to you. And we have been doing a lot of updates lately. But for now for Amy Robach, I'm T.J. holmes. We'll talk to y' all soon.

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[T.J. Holmes]

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[Amy Robach]

This is an I Heart Podcast.