“When We Wake Up, It Will Be The First Time In Nearly 37 Years That We Don’t Have To Worry About Another Appeal Being Filed”

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Podcast: Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Episode: “When We Wake Up, It Will Be The First Time In Nearly 37 Years That We Don’t Have To Worry About Another Appeal Being Filed”
Date: December 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the surge in executions in the United States, focusing primarily on three major headlines: the execution of Mark Allen Geralds in Florida, the impending execution of Harold Wayne Nichols in Tennessee, and the Supreme Court's review of a pivotal Alabama case regarding intellectual disability and the death penalty. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes discuss the impact of delayed executions on victims' families, the evolving legal landscape around capital punishment, and the complexities surrounding appeals and clemency.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recent Florida Execution: Mark Allen Geralds

(Segment Begins ~02:49)

• Event Recap:

  • Mark Allen Geralds, 58, was executed by lethal injection in Florida on December 9, 2025, for the 1989 murder of Tressa Pettibone.
  • Witnesses described Geralds taking "about a dozen deep breaths," with his "body quivered and twitched" before he was still and pronounced dead at 6:15 pm. (Amy Robach, 03:31)

• His Last Words:

  • Geralds' final statement addressed an unnamed individual:

    “I’m sorry that I missed you. I loved you every day.”
    Observers were puzzled, as the addressee was unclear.
    (Amy Robach, 04:15)

  • The family of the victim, Tressa Pettibone, attended in notable numbers (eight relatives) and released a striking statement afterward:

    “Tomorrow, when we wake up, it will be the first time in nearly 37 years that we don't have to worry about another appeal being filed or another law changing that could potentially thwart the justice we have been fighting so hard for so long.”
    (Amy Robach quoting Pettibone Family, 07:03)

• Family Attitudes and Legal Commentary:

  • Unlike many other cases where families oppose executions, the Pettibone family strongly supported it.
  • The execution occurred nearly 37 years after the crime, indicating the long, arduous appeals process common in death penalty cases.
  • T.J. Holmes reflects:

    "Why do you have to sit and wait 30 something years... for somebody to be executed? Why are you having to deal with another appeal... once again?"
    (T.J. Holmes, 05:35)

• Florida's Execution Pace:

  • Florida executed 18 people in 2025 (previous record was 8), reflecting aggressive moves under Governor Ron DeSantis, bolstered by broader access to execution drugs.

    “Florida ain’t messing around.”
    (T.J. Holmes, 07:03)

2. Tennessee Execution: Harold Wayne Nichols

(Segment Begins ~08:37)

• Case Background:

  • Nichols, 64, confessed to the 1988 rape and murder of Karen Pulley and several other assaults.
  • Despite expressing remorse, Nichols is fighting his execution.
  • Governor Bill Lee announced he would not intervene.

• Clemency Plea:

  • Nichols’ attorneys argue that, since he pleaded guilty and was remorseful, his life should be spared—the first such case in Tennessee since the death penalty's 1978 reinstatement.

    “Nichols would be the first person in... Tennessee to be executed for a crime that he pleaded guilty to since... 1978.”
    (Amy Robach, 11:24)

  • T.J. calls out the dilemma:

    “Should he just be life in prison because he confessed?... Then everybody... would just say, ‘You know what, I'ma plea guilty and take the death penalty off the table?’”
    (T.J. Holmes, 09:54)

• Philosophical and Logistical Reflections:

  • The hosts discuss the potential for cost and time savings if more confessions led to life sentences without parole rather than automatic capital trials and appeals.

    “Wouldn't it be interesting if that was potentially... considered... Spare us the time and money of a trial, we’ll consider giving you life in prison without... parole.”
    (Amy Robach, 10:28)

3. Supreme Court Case: Intellectual Disability and the Death Penalty (Alabama)

(Segment Begins ~12:05 and resumes at 17:08)

• Central Issue:

  • The Supreme Court is hearing a case about whether a man (Joseph Smith) should be executed despite lower courts vacating his death sentence on grounds of intellectual disability.
  • Lower courts and mental health professionals argue that a person’s intellectual capacity can't be determined solely by an IQ score.

    “One IQ test or even multiple IQ tests alone should not determine whether or not somebody is mentally incapable or has a mental disability that's severe enough that they shouldn't be executed.”
    (Amy Robach, 17:53)

  • Supreme Court precedent (since 2002) generally uses a cutoff of 70, but the man at issue tested between 72 and 78.

• Significance:

  • The outcome may affect hundreds of cases nationally; already, 142 sentences have been vacated since 2002 due to intellectual disability findings.

    “This case... is going to affect potentially so many other cases...”
    (Amy Robach, 21:13)

• Alabama’s Perspective:

  • Alabama argues Smith was not intellectually disabled and that “the Eighth Amendment does not override the death sentence he earned for murdering Dirk Van Dam.” The prosecution highlights the brutality of the crime.

• Robach and Holmes Reflect:

  • T.J.:

    “The idea that we are fighting so desperately to kill a guy is... something.”
    (T.J. Holmes, 22:34)

  • Amy:

    “If they rule in any other way, it's going to affect... hundreds of cases...”
    (Amy Robach, 21:13)

4. The Broader Landscape

Year in Review and What’s Ahead

• Record Execution Pace: With 45-46 executions (as of recording) in the U.S., 2025 shapes up to be one of the busiest death penalty years in a decade.
• Upcoming: Florida is scheduled to hit 19 executions by year’s end, with the Tennessee case still pending Supreme Court review.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Victim's Family Statement After 37 Years Awaiting Justice:

  “Tomorrow... it will be the first time in nearly 37 years that we don't have to worry about another appeal being filed or another law changing that could potentially thwart the justice we have been fighting so hard for so long.”
  (Pettibone Family Statement, read by Amy Robach at 07:03)

• On the Lengthy Death Penalty Process:

  “Why do you have to sit and wait 30 something years, years for somebody to be executed? ... Why are you having to deal with another appeal?”
  (T.J. Holmes, 05:35)

• On Florida’s Execution Record:

  “Florida ain’t messing around… This is their 18th of the year. And... the record before this was 8.”
  (T.J. Holmes, 06:30)

• On Executing the Intellectually Disabled:

  “One IQ test or even multiple IQ tests alone should not determine whether or not somebody is... mentally incapable... that they shouldn't be executed for their crime.”
  (Amy Robach, 17:53)

• Reflection on the System's Morality:

  “The idea that we are fighting so desperately to kill a guy is... something.”
  (T.J. Holmes, 22:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Florida Execution Recap & Family Statement: 02:49 – 07:33
• Discussion on Death Row Appeals/Process: 05:16 – 08:37
• Tennessee Execution & Plea Comparisons: 08:37 – 12:05
• Supreme Court (Alabama/Intellectual Disability) Explained: 17:08 – 21:13
• Key Quotes and Philosophical Takeaways: Scattered throughout; see specific times above.
• Year-in-Review & Upcoming Executions: 22:34 – 23:12

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Conclusion

The episode thoughtfully interrogates the emotional, legal, and practical intricacies of capital punishment in America today. Listeners are invited to consider not only the facts of individual cases, but the broader human toll of protracted legal processes—on inmates, victims’ families, and society at large. With a record number of executions and consequential court battles underway, Amy and T.J. underscore the gravity of these moments and the lingering questions they pose for American justice.

Transcript

[Amy Robach]

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[T.J. Holmes]

Hey there folks. It is Wednesday, December 10th. Do you have any last words? A Florida death row inmate was asked that last night right before he was given a lethal injection. And this morning people are still confused about his last words. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ and Robes. We have been covering a lot of executions. We hear about last words, last meals. Look, we have that to talk about from last night. We have another execution coming up tomorrow night in the Supreme Court. Today on this Wednesday is taking up a very major execution related case. It's been an execution year really it feels like in this country.

[Amy Robach]

Yes. And this is an execution podcast because there are three major headlines that you just described to talk about right now. We can begin with last night in Florida. 58 year old Mark Allen Gerald's pronounced dead at 6:15 lethal injection. And there was a description of how that lethal injection went by the witnesses who were there in the room. They said that he took about a dozen deep breaths. They say his body quivered and twitched but within three to four minutes he was still and pronounced dead a few moments later. But it was before that all took place. His last words that got a lot of attention from folks.

Of course he was asked it. He addressed someone by name but the name was not discernible, it was inaudible. They didn't know who he said. But after he said this person's name he went on to say, I'm sorry that I missed you. I loved you every day. That left a lot of head scratching.

[T.J. Holmes]

And here we are. We don't know who he was talking to and what he was talking about. Really it's the last words he'll ever have. Maybe somebody will come out and explain and who he was talking to. Maybe that person was in the room and they'll tell us. But so far no.

[Amy Robach]

And it was interesting as far as who came up and who showed up. Look, this is a crime that happened in 1989 and the victim in this case, her name was Tressa Pettibone. But the state said that eight people on behalf of Tressa were there for that execution. To witness that execution, that is fairly unheard of at this point. But it just went to show the gravity of the situation. In fact, her family.

Gave a statement following the death of her murderer. And a lot of times we've been reporting on families not wanting executions to go forward, wanting there to be not the eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth sentiment. But that was not the case from the Pettibone family.

[T.J. Holmes]

No, you have to appreciate what your heart goes out to them for. Yes, they've lost someone. But why do you have to sit and wait 30 something years, years for somebody to be executed? Why are you having to deal with another appeal and having to be contacted by the state once again to say that this is why. Why, why, why. That's. That's. And look, I'm not applauding. And we've come around and talked about here openly about issues with the death penalty, but you have DeSantis. And one argument he makes is that we gotta. I'm signing these because we've had these families waiting for too long. That's. That's an argument, at least that. At least when you talk to this family. Okay, I get that.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. Think about all the executions we have covered this year, but particularly in the last few months. Can you think of any of them that have been within even a decade or two decades? We're talking three decades almost. For all of the executions we've been describing. They were all in the 1980s, 1990s.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah. So he's moving that process along. And. And look, Florida, we talk about. They're on a record pace. This is their 18th of the year. And they've. The record before this was eight. The most they had ever executed in one year with eight people. And now they're up to 18 and will. Or at least scheduled to get to 19 by the time the month is out. And again, DeSantis is. You know, we talked about as well, there are more drugs now available. And there was a little delay because some of these things are seen as cruel and unusual. And now states have more access to the drugs they need to execute people. Fine. But Florida ain't messing around.

[Amy Robach]

They are not messing around. And so, yes, and I think the Pettibone family was certainly appreciative of that, because in their statement here is what they wrote. This was right after the execution took place. They said, tomorrow when we wake up, it will be the first time in nearly 37 years that we don't have to worry about another appeal being filed or another law changing that could potentially thwart the justice we have been fighting so hard for so long.

[T.J. Holmes]

And my argument, if there should be a law, if the family of the victim doesn't want the person executed, we should follow their wishes. Right. They shouldn't decide if the person dies, but they should decide if the person doesn't die. This was a family that was clearly supportive of this going through.

[Amy Robach]

They were supportive. And honestly, so was Gerald's, because his death warrant was actually signed last month by DeSantis. And he told the judge, I don't want to pursue any further appeals. And the judge said, no problem, signed off on Gerald's decision. I think he's the second inmate we've heard that actually. It's remarkable. We've talked about this as well. Despite the conditions that it might be to be in death row or to be in a maximum security prison for decades, it seems as though regardless of the conditions, these inmates want to live for the most part. It's rare that you see an inmate not fight for a stay of execution.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, he's just the second out of the 18. One other guy didn't as well. But yeah. No matter what to the end, we've seen desperately fighting to stay a lot.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. And that would be the case with tomorrow's execution, Thursday's execution out of Tennessee. Even though we've already heard from the governor on this, he said, yeah, I'm not going to get involved in this execution. This is Harold Wayne Nichols, 64 years old, but he is fighting his execution. Even though the governor made that statement and made it pretty clear he's not getting involved.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[T.J. Holmes]

At least you don't have to wait to see if that phone's going to ring. I mean, that's one of those things. It's up to the last minute. And we had clemency granted in one case that we covered. And that phone literally was ringing a minute before his execution. So this at least gets that mystery off the table.

[Amy Robach]

Yes, there will be no nail biting on this one. But he, this is interesting case because Nichols confessed to killing Karen Pulley. She was a 20 year old student at Chattanooga State University back in 1988 and he was convicted for the rape and murder of her. So he confessed to that. He also confessed to raping several other women in the Chattanooga area. He said he was sorry, he expressed remorse. But he did say, hey, you know what, if y' all hadn't caught me, I would have continued this violent behavior. But it's because he admitted it and because he feels sorry for it. He thinks, or at least that's the argument his attorneys are making for him to not be executed.

[T.J. Holmes]

I mean, his attorneys, other attorneys, other families, other people in the legal field. And we've seen cases like this where there is a hint of leniency. I don't want to talk about just in death row death penalty cases, but they do give credit for someone who is remorseful, for someone who has taken accountability, responsibility for their crimes. There is some element of that. So should he just be life in prison because he confessed? You can't get that out there. Then everybody who had a death penalty case would just say, you know, What? I'm a plea guilty and take the death penalty off the table? He thinks it should be off the table.

[Amy Robach]

Wouldn't that be interesting though, from a financial and a logistical standpoint? If you actually had someone plead guilty and not have to go through the lengthy trial process, then the lengthy appeals processes that have to. Or processes. I don't know how you say that, that have to take place when you have a death penalty case. Wouldn't it be interesting if that was potentially. I mean, I think that some prosecutors, it's on a case by case basis, do take that into consideration whether or not they pursue the death penalty. If you plead guilty and you save us and spare us the time and money of a trial, we will consider giving you life in prison without the possibility of parole.

[T.J. Holmes]

No, I don't know how many people get that option because it obviously has to be a very major murder case. But do you take your chances? I'm going to spend the rest of my life in prison or I'm going to face an execution in three, 30 years.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah. I mean, that is the reality, right? That's the reality.

[T.J. Holmes]

You might just take your chances. To hell with it. Might as well try trial because those aren't good options.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, I might die of natural causes in 30 years anyway. So who, who cares? But in his clemency petition from his attorneys, they actually said this, and I didn't realize this, they say that Nichols would be the first person in the state of Tennessee to be executed for a crime that he pleaded guilty to since the death penalty was reinstated in 1978.

[T.J. Holmes]

And some people would say, so what? You did the crime, period. I don't care if you confessed to it or pled guilty to it or not, you did it. So that changes nothing. So why are you today in this moment trying to make that argument? I could see the pushback on that.

[Amy Robach]

He did the crime, but he wants to do the time. He doesn't want it to end, I guess is his point. He's willing to serve for the rest of his life, but. And at this point now, if the governor says he's not going to get involved, it doesn't seem as though 64 year old Nichols has much of a shot. So he is scheduled to die tomorrow by lethal injection in the state of Tennessee. But there is another major issue that the Supreme Court is taking up. This is about an execution that state lawmakers or at least the Attorney General's office wants to schedule, but has been told no. His death penalty or his death penalty conviction has been vacated to a life sentence. But they want that to change. And they've gotten the Supreme Court involved. And the Supreme Court is taking a look at this case out of Alabama today.

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[Amy Robach]

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[T.J. Holmes]

All right folks, we continue here on Amy and tj A number of execution headlines. A man executed last night in of front Florida. That's their 18th of the year. A record pace there on another man scheduled to die tomorrow night in Tennessee. And today the Supreme Court is hearing arguments in the case that could change who gets executed in this country. And robe this I was first struck by this story to hear that a state is fighting so desperately to kill a man that they will take it to the Supreme Court like we want. We want him dead so bad that we're willing to take it this far when lower courts have said you shouldn't execute this man.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, there are two lower federal courts who have said that Joseph Smith.

Should not be put to death because they say that he has an intellectual disability. And so the big question for the Supreme Court to try and figure out now is what determines an intellectual disability. And the lower courts and several people who are mental health professionals say one IQ test or even multiple IQ tests alone should not determine whether or not somebody is mentally incapable or has a mental disability that's severe enough that they shouldn't be executed for their crime. That IQ test. They actually have a number 70. Correct.

[T.J. Holmes]

That they landed on. And look, the Supreme Court itself set precedent in 2002 with a case essentially saying who is or isn't considered intellectually disabled for the purpose of execution. And so 70 was kind of made as some kind of a number, a marker there. So if you score 70 or below on an IQ test, you're considered to be intellectually disabled. The problem with this particular inmate, Robes, is that he has scored on several tests between 72 and 78. Obviously, that's not great. Right. Obviously he has a history and his teachers and people in his past have come back and they've. They doing all these assessments of where he's been. So the Supreme Court is saying, actually you got to take into more in consideration than just that number, because those are not always that dead on an IQ test. So that makes sense. We can't just say 70 and below. Then you're this. If you score 73, then you need to consider some other factors. You can't just say, ah, it's not 70. That is what the Supreme Court precedent said, and that is what the fight is over now.

[Amy Robach]

Yeah, I mean, and that makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure how accurate an IQ test is. And the fact that he's taken five IQ tests and he's ranged from 72 to 78 just shows you there is a margin of error. And that 72 score, you would think would fall within the margin of error of 70 being the case. And at least the lower courts agreed that you have to take into other considerations. You pointed out they brought in some grade school teachers. They brought in other anecdotal evidence from people who have interviewed him and spoken with him and talked with him and said, this man is intellectually disabled. And so those two courts both agreed and said, this sentence needs to be. His death sentence needs to be vacated. He needs to be given life in prison. But, yeah, Alabama's like, they're not having it. They are pursuing it, taking it all the way to the Supreme Court.

[T.J. Holmes]

And I'm sure they put in and the statements. Put out some statements. And I'm sure they say the people of justice demand and we want to follow through on what the people have ruled. I'm sure that's it. And they're following and they want to pursue this to the end. And maybe they want to. I haven't seen about the families on this one. Maybe they do want to pursue this to the end. But you talk About Robe's expense, how much this costs not just to house these particular inmates. Death row inmates have to be the most expensive on the block because they're in court constantly. Appeals where. Right. The government has to fight that stuff as they send these appeals. So this is a guy we like, just leave him in prison? No, like, the idea that we are fighting so desperately to kill a guy is. Hey, it's justice. Is what we call justice.

[Amy Robach]

And this matters. This case is really important because this is going to affect potentially so many other cases. Right now, 142 people in this country since 2002, since that Supreme Court ruling you talked about, have had their death sentences vacated because they met the standards of being intellectually disabled. So we're talking about a number of inmates already who I should say benefited from, or at least their lives were spared because of this 2002 ruling. If they go against that, if they rule in any other way, it's going to affect, I'm certain, hundreds of cases from this day forward. Now, here's what Alabama argued. They said Joseph Smith is not intellectually disabled. And the Eighth Amendment does not override the death sentence he earned for murdering Dirk Van Dam. And that is the victim in this case. According to court documents, they say Smith somehow gave this van dam 35 blunt force injuries from a saw, using a saw on his neck, shoulder and back. I mean, it was a brutal, vicious, horrific murder. And so they're pointing to the viciousness of it and saying this man knew what he was doing. He was not intellectually disabled while he was committing this atrocity.

[T.J. Holmes]

Okay, I get. Okay, they want to pursue it, that's fine. And the families and other people might want justice. And this needs to be just the idea that it's worth it to us. We, like we are fighting to kill this guy. It's just that idea is something. But, yeah, these. These headlines and a hell of a year it has been. The highest numbers we've seen. What are we up to? 45, 46 now executions in this country. Highest number we've seen in a decade plus at this point. So one more scheduled next week. That's Florida, I believe, right?

[Amy Robach]

Correct. Yes. Florida should be at 19 by next.

[T.J. Holmes]

Week, and that's the last one scheduled in the country, which we'll see what happens in Tennessee. We'll keep an eye on these arguments at the Supreme Court.

[Amy Robach]

All right, and with that, everyone, thank you for listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside T.J. holmes. We will talk to you soon.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, audiobook lovers, I'M Cal Penn.

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[Kal Penn]

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[Amy Robach]

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.

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A GLP one Helped you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, the weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.

[Amy Robach]

There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and then the after after.

[T.J. Holmes]

Yeah, help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow.

[Amy Robach]

To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com that's faceafterweightloss.com.

[Ed Helms]

Amazon Five Star Theater presents Real Customer Reviews performed by Ed Helms Tonight's review Tactical Jacket I was living a simple life. Didn't get out much. Then I bought this jacket and everything changed. Women came flocking to me from lands domestic and foreign. On the 245 day sailboat voyage home, I was attacked by a shark. I knew it was the jacket he was after, giving up the jacket in exchange for my life. 5 stars Amazon Customer 69 Shop the perfect Gift this Holiday on Amazon.

[Amy Robach]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep Apnea, or OSA, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company. This is an iHeart podcast.

[Cindy Crawford]

Guaranteed Human.