What It Actually Feels Like to Live with Bipolar Disorder

Summary

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Anabaptist Perspectives – "What It Actually Feels Like to Live with Bipolar Disorder" (July 30, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast hosts a deeply personal and honest conversation with Arlen, who shares his lived experience with bipolar disorder. The discussion explores his journey from early signs in adolescence to diagnosis, the impact on his life and relationships, faith's central role, and how community and routines have supported him. The aim is to provide both understanding and hope for those affected by mental health challenges, especially within faith communities.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early Signs and Diagnosis

• First Patterns (12–17 years old)
  • At 12 or 13, Arlen began experiencing unprocessed sadness and early depressive episodes, which seemed at the time to be just “how life is sometimes.” [00:48]
  • Notable inability to concentrate in 9th grade: “All at once I couldn't focus… It was disorienting.” [01:30]
  • At 17, he experienced unexplained fatigue: “It didn’t seem terrible to me… I was just tired a lot.” [04:12]
• Diagnosis at 18
  • During Bible school, Arlen experienced his first manic episode. He describes an elevated mood, less need for sleep, hyperactivity, and eventual delusional thinking, especially around religion and current events. [07:07]
  • Received a formal diagnosis: "The local family practitioner… gave me the diagnosis of manic depressive disorder..." [09:46]

2. Living Through Highs and Lows

• Experiencing Mania
  • Mania description: “The things that I was thinking seemed real and seemed like I just need to get everyone else up to speed…” [00:00, 11:06]
  • Delusions included paranoia around taking medication: "I saw a person going into the pharmacy, and I knew that was someone who… was going to put poison in place of those pills…” [11:34]
  • Physical effects: Arlen described increased physical energy and athletic ability during highs. [19:16]
  • The experience is compared to a drug high: “It’s so real and it’s so true… It’s a trip.” [13:45]
• Experiencing Lows
  • Depression described as feeling “like attending your own funeral.” [45:11]
  • Decision-making becomes overwhelming, energy is depleted, neurofeedback from enjoyable activities fades: "I can go do something which I used to really enjoy, and I just do it. And it just feels… I don't really feel anything.” [38:05]
• Physical and Mental Connection
  • “Bipolar is essentially a neurotransmitter dysfunction... when the neurotransmitters are really working or maybe overworking, then the muscle movement and so on is, is just very intense…” [20:16]
  • Energy and mood swings affect body and mind alike.

3. Impact on Identity and Relationships

• Struggle with Identity
  • "The core of who I am is I am a child of God. And my feelings… is not the core of what defines me as a person." [42:08]
  • The swings create disorientation: “Who am I really?” [40:27]
• Family Dynamics
  • Highs can be more difficult for those around him (“the unpredictability, overexcited, rootless, shifty” [35:15]), while lows are hardest for him personally.
  • “It takes a special person to live with someone that deals with bipolar.” [34:00]
• Faith Community Response
  • No sense of judgment from church; more a sense of incomprehension or quiet support: “I feel like my community was trying to understand… Most people just hoped it would take care of itself.” [48:16]
  • Encouragement to have honest conversations in faith settings about mental health.

4. Faith, Suffering, and Perseverance

• Centrality of Faith
  • Faith described as a “rock” and “anchor”: “Except for faith. I wouldn't be here... Severe mental health sometimes results in suicide… God is real. God is good. And he is bigger than these feelings…” [53:22]
  • Church’s role: Not necessarily to ‘fix’ but to walk alongside.
• Meaning in Suffering
  • Rejecting the notion that following Christ means less suffering: “If the church tries to portray that… how are we going to learn to embrace the way of Jesus?” [73:59]
  • Suffering seen as formative: “It’s an opportunity for me to grow spiritually… to develop compassion and empathy.” [54:30]

5. Living with Bipolar: Practical Approaches

• Medication and Alternatives
  • Keeps lithium on hand for extreme episodes: “I would not like to be dependent on lithium, but it does still work, it does still stabilize my mood.” [57:05]
  • Has tried blood tests, hair analysis, functional medicine, diet (proteins, beans), hormone therapy, vitamins (niacin/B3), and thyroid medication. Antidepressants are too risky for him. [57:05–60:00]
• Importance of Support
  • Routines and prayer are crucial. Support networks such as NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) are helpful. [66:59]
  • Difficulty of self-treatment: “Those of us with bipolar disorder are not great at self-treating. So we have to learn to, to listen [to others].”
• Encouragement for Others
  • “It is good for us to talk about these things to each other… We simply cannot live like that [in isolation].” [66:59]
  • “Prayer is essential for me… it doesn’t make the suffering go away, but makes a path through the suffering.” [69:00]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mania:
  “The things that I was thinking seemed real… I just need to get everyone else up to speed with what I am thinking…” (Arlen, [00:00, 11:06])

• On Being Diagnosed:
  “The way I felt, my thought processes are similar to what I hear or read of people describing as an episode they might get from a drug...” (Arlen, [13:45])

• On Spiritual Integration:
  “Is it a physical or a spiritual problem? The answer is yes. It has physical and spiritual components… and it’s really difficult to separate those.” (Arlen, [50:00])

• On Depression:
  “The low kind of feels like attending your own funeral…” (Arlen, [45:11])

• On Perseverance:
  “Having a diagnosis of a mental illness never excuses or makes sinful actions or behaviors acceptable… Sometimes I need people to encourage me in that.” (Arlen, [62:25])

• On Faith Amid Suffering:
  “If this is the suffering that I am called to, so that the work of God, the name of God, can be lifted up, then I want to walk in this in faithfulness.” (Arlen, [64:00])

• On Support:
  “We were not created to live in isolation or to silently deal with these things. We simply cannot live like that.” (Arlen, [69:30])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:48] – Early signs of depression and first bouts with mental health challenges.
• [07:07] – First manic episode and diagnosis.
• [11:06] – Describing the reality of manic experience.
• [19:16] – Effects of mania on mind and body.
• [26:43] – Transition from mania to depressive episode.
• [33:00] – How long the cycles last and how they shift.
• [40:27] – The challenge of identity when living with bipolar.
• [45:11] – Lows feeling like attending one’s own funeral.
• [53:22] – Role of faith and church community.
• [57:05] – Ongoing treatment approach and limitations.
• [66:59] – Advice for listeners who may also be struggling.
• [73:59] – Reflection on the role of suffering in Christian life.

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Conclusion

Arlen’s story provides a rare and vulnerable insight into life with bipolar disorder, communicated with transparency and humility. The episode offers practical and spiritual encouragement to listeners living with mental illness and challenges faith communities to deeper empathy and better support. Central throughout is Arlen’s belief in anchoring one’s identity in Christ, not in ever-shifting mental states, and his invitation for others not to struggle alone.

Transcript

[A]

It's so real and it's so true that it doesn't really bother you or didn't bother me. I didn't sit there and think, oh, my life is coming to an end as I know it, you know, this is terrible, I'm losing my mind. No, it's not like that. The things that I was thinking seemed real and seemed like I just need to get everyone else up to speed with, with what I am thinking because they don't know and they need to know.

[B]

Well, Arlen, as you look back across your life, when did you start seeing patterns that something was a little different for you?

[A]

Yeah, that's a good question. So at the time I wouldn't have thought about it so much. But looking back, I think around the time I was 12 or 13, I did begin to experience some bouts with depression. There were certain things that bothered me that made me sad, not serious things, just like maybe this part of the farm wasn't very tidy, or this or that just didn't seem to be quite right. Material things usually, and it made me sad. And so I would, didn't, didn't really have a way to process that. I would, I would spend time alone and just. I know I'd go down to the pond and fish by myself sometimes and think through these things. So that's kind of the earliest. Before that I had very, very happy childhood, a stable family and just a lot of very good experiences, good friends. I was a happy person. Pictures from my childhood, you know, almost always show me with a big smile. So anyway, from 13 on then some of those patterns started to come in and I didn't think about them as being abnormal at the time. I just thought, well, this is, this is how life is sometimes. When I was 14, I had a time where I was in ninth grade and I had a very. I went through a period of time was very difficult to study. It just kind of hit me all at once and I couldn't focus and it was totally unusual for me. School had always come easily and being able to focus on study and reading and comprehending what I was reading and writing back down answers in detail of what I'd read, that was natural for me. And all at once I couldn't focus, I couldn't think clearly. I would sit down and try to do my work and it would take me easily twice as long and the quality of my work just wasn't as good. I had to read and reread and reread. It seemed I could read a whole page and then not really have comprehended it. And it's like my brain, it wasn't processing the information in the same way that I had been used to. And that was. That was kind of scary or it was disorienting for me. And that went on for. For several months, and I kind of struggled through that and then kind of got better.

[B]

So, like, it just. That just kind of faded away, and you were back to what you would have considered normal then. It just kind of.

[A]

Yeah, it faded away over a period of several months, and things kind of went on like they had been.

[B]

It must have been a little disorienting where it's just, oh, something's a little. Something changed and then. No. Okay, now we're back to what you were used to, if you know what I mean. Right.

[A]

Yes, right. And it was kind of a big thing at the time, but then it faded away and soon kind of out of my memory. And then When I was 17, we went on a western trip. And I just remember I slept most of the time during the day while we were traveling. I was. I just felt tired a lot. And when we would get somewhere and take a hike or go look at something, then I would get up and go do it, and I felt pretty decent, but get back in the motorhome and go on, and I would just fall asleep, even if it was nice scenery and so on. And that was, I think, the first time my parents kind of remarked that, you know what, something seems a little unusual or off about that, but I think it had come kind of gradually and. And that kind of fatigue. Yeah. Had kind of come on gradually. And it didn't seem terrible to me. It just seemed. Well, this is kind of how life was. I don't remember feeling sad or depressed. I was just tired

[B]

a lot. Without physically, like, in your body or, like, brain tired, if, you know, More.

[A]

More, More my body or like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just. Just didn't feel energetic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or like, really, I would go along with the things that my family was doing and enjoy them, but I wouldn't have been sitting up saying, oh, hey, let's stop here, or let's do this. Yeah, just kind of a little bit numb and along for the ride.

[B]

Did that last for a while, that feeling of the tiredness and lack of energy, I guess you could call it.

[A]

I would say that that did last for a while back home. Then when. When I was working. Working on the farm, I worked with my uncles quite a bit on the farm. As long as I kept moving, it wasn't too noticeable. But, but kind of from, from then on throughout my life, I could fall asleep very easily. Yeah. Even up, up to this day, it's very difficult for me to get through a Sunday morning or even any kind of a meeting without dozing off momentarily unless I'm in a. A more elevated side of the, of the bipolar.

[B]

Yeah. How did your, how did your family and friends and so forth respond to this? You said your parents started noticing. Right. On that trip.

[A]

So it wasn't, it wasn't a big concern to me at that point, and I don't think it was a big concern to them. But, but they, they did notice. But it wasn't until I was 18 that I got a formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Well, back at that time, they call it manic depress depressive disorder. And then they, they upgraded the, the, the lingo, I guess, to bipolar disorder. That's what they call it now. That happened when I was at Bible school in Arkansas and I began to feel like I didn't need much sleep. And I would, I would stay up late studying, and I would get up early and study or do things. Maybe I would go. Go out running. It just felt like sleep was, Was kind of a waste of time.

[B]

And that's a 180, though, what you've been describing about needing lots of sleep before that. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And that's where the bipolar disorder diagnosis comes in. Because with bipolar, you have, you have these periods of high where you feel energetic, motivated, powerful, and like, why would you bother sleeping when you could be doing these things? And then it goes down on the low side where it's the exact opposite. That's why it's called bipolar. But I had a manic or a high episode there. So it went from feeling like I didn't need sleep to being very talkative. And then I began to say things that were delusional. So I had ideas about Bible prophecies, and I was trying to make connections with current events, and I started to say these things which seemed to totally, totally logical to me. But the people around me soon recognized that this was not logical and something had gone awry, something was going awry. And so eventually they agreed with the staff. And my parents were actually there. My dad was a teacher. During that term, they agreed that I should be taken in for an evaluation. And so somehow they persuaded me to go into the local hospital where there was not a psychiatrist there, but the local family practitioner, the medical doctor. He listened to what I had to say, and then he said he gave me the diagnosis of manic depressive disorder, which has been confirmed by my numbers of doctors since then, especially psychiatrists. Medical doctors typically will not offer that diagnosis because that's maybe a little outside of their training. But he felt confident enough about it that he was willing to go ahead and give that diagnosis and then prescribe the medication that he felt that I needed. So he's prescribed lithium, which is commonly used for patients with bipolar disorder. And we went back to the Bible school and I refused to take the medication.

[B]

And this is all during the usual Bible school term.

[A]

That's right. Things are going on that must have

[B]

felt very, what, odd or something to be like, the staff are pulling you aside and your family is like, hey, let's. We should go to the hospital, basically. Right. Like, how did you handle that? I mean, you agreed to do it.

[A]

Yes. So you. Only people who, who have experienced a high like this will. Will really be able to understand this. But it. It's so real and it's so true that it doesn't really bother you or didn't bother me. It didn't. I didn't sit there and think, oh, my life is coming to an end as I know it. You know, this is terrible. I'm losing my mind. No, it's not like that. The things that I was thinking seemed real and seemed like I just need to get everyone else up to speed with. With what I am thinking, because they don't know and they need to know. So I had, at that time, Al Gore was vice president, and I had this idea that because of the messages that God was giving me that needed to get out there, then he was opposing that he was going to come after me and try to get rid of me. And so when we came out of the clinic with that prescription, I was having a. I saw a person going into the pharmacy, and I knew that that was someone who he had sent to put poison in place of those pills that I was about to pick up. And so when we get back to the Bible school, I said, well, I could take these pills, but if I do, I'm dead because of this, this and this, which was totally clear in my mind, but of course recognized as delusional by. By the people around me.

[B]

But then why did you agree to go to the clinic to begin with? How did they convince you to do that, if you know what I mean, to go get the diagnosis?

[A]

And so I don't remember wrestling with. With that. I just thought, well, this is part of. That's part of what I'm going to have to go through to, for this, for this, whatever. This process is part of the. The martyr's journey or whatever.

[B]

That makes a little more sense then, because it's like you're sure you're right, and so it's kind of like, okay, I know I'm right. These people want me to do this. I guess I'll go along with it, but just kind of maybe humor them or something eventually.

[A]

Why? They'll get the drift.

[B]

Yeah, so you did. So you go, you get the diagnosis, you get the medication. Two questions with that. Then how does your family respond to the diagnosis? And then if you didn't take the medication, then what?

[A]

That's right. So it was, it was far more difficult for my parents than it was for me because I was essentially on a trip. The way I felt, my thought processes are similar to what I hear or read of people describing as an episode they might get from a drug. The mind is sharp, it's fast, or thoughts are just tumbling through one after another, and everything you think seems real. It's kind of like I lost my ability to discern reality from, from, from a thought. And so that, that wasn't. It didn't feel terrible to me because it's, It's a trip. But for my parents, it was. It was very difficult for them to know what to do and, you know, what is happening to our son and how do we help him? What's going on here? So they couldn't get me to take the pills. And later on that same. I can't remember the timeline. Was it early the next day or within 24 hours? Anyway, I was back to the clinic and so they managed to persuade me to go back to the. Talk to the doctor. And this time they loaded up six of the biggest guys of the school term, six of the biggest students, and they were prepared for me to be hospitalized if. If necessary, really, until I would take these pills.

[B]

So your, Your parents were seeing this as a pretty serious.

[A]

Yeah, it was, it was unlike anything they'd ever seen before.

[B]

Yeah, in.

[A]

In me very off the wall.

[B]

That strikes me as a really good thing that they were there at the Bible school because they would have been able to see, wait, this isn't you. Like, something is very wrong here, you know. Oh, man, that must have been hard for them, though.

[A]

I think it having them there helped to just keep that process going, that we need to get Arlen some help sooner rather than later.

[B]

That must have been tough, though.

[A]

Yes, I can only imagine it was.

[B]

So you go in a vehicle with six of the biggest guys. Did you know that? Surely that you didn't know that? Their plan was like, we're going to hospitalize you if it comes to that, if we have to do that.

[A]

It seems like maybe I kind of caught on, but then again, I don't know. It didn't really bother me. I was just like, well, let's see what happens. This is all going to work out because these thoughts that I'm having are our true thoughts. So.

[B]

So what. What didn't happen?

[A]

So we got there and we went back in to see the doctor, same doctor, and. And I sat down and I explained to him my hallucination with, you know, with seeing the person that I thought poisoned the pills and. And so on. And he just asked questions and let me talk, and. And he just kept saying, I think. I think you should go ahead and take these pills. I think you'll be okay. And eventually I did. Right there. I took the first dose, and they put me on a double or triple dose of lithium for the first 24 hours. I think you say lithium. Lithium.

[B]

Is that like the lithium that's in the battery of a smartphone or something? Like, is that the element?

[A]

An element? Lithium. It's very inexpensive. It's very commonly used for bipolar patients. It's a mood stabilizer. It's not an antidepressant, but it's a mood stabilizer. So if you're in a low, it helps to moderate you up a little bit, and if you're on a high, it helps to reduce that. So the psychotic thoughts began to blur, like my clarity. Once I began to take those, then I started to get some confusion in my thoughts. And now these things that I imagined to be true no longer quite lined up anymore.

[B]

Oh, did that. Okay, I've never thought of this, but, like, if. Yeah, if you're riding this big high and these things are totally certain in your mind and you take the. That pill, that medication, and it kind of evens it out, maybe low, lower. I don't know if I'm. I'm sure I'm not using the right words here, but kind of low, yeah, lowers it or whatever. Then suddenly these things that you were sure were bedrock reality are like. I'm not sure if they're true. And so did it feel like reality just kind of fracturing around you? Like you're not sure what's real? Like, am. Am I tracking with you correctly? Is that kind of how this works?

[A]

As far as my energy level and my. My mental clarity, it kind of Went together. Right during the time when I was on the high, I had a tremendous amount of energy and, and ability to play. Volleyball was one of the games we played there. And I could. I could just kill it in ways that I could never before, before or after. And one of the first things I noticed when they put me on lithium was, oh, I can't. I can't jump as high anymore. And I can't really. I can't. I just can't get it together to. To nail it like I had been.

[B]

So this affects not just how your mind is perceiving thoughts and saying, oh, this thing is real. It's not just changing that it. This is having effects on your energy.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Like your actual physical energy and abilities. I didn't know that.

[A]

Yes. Which is mysterious. Bipolar is essentially a neurotransmitter dysfunction. So the chemicals that regulate the flow of, of nerve impulses, those are. And there's a. There are a number of them. And if those aren't in the right balance, you know, in. In our bodies, in our nervous system, then. Then we don't. We don't function well. And that can result in a. In a high or, or a lower,

[B]

but it actually affecting not just how the mind perceives information, et cetera, but like how your body functions too. That's new to me. Yeah.

[A]

So the brain, I mean, the nervous system isn't limited to just the brain, but nerves are throughout our body. And so when the neurotransmitters are really working or maybe overworking, then. Then the muscle movement and so on is. Is just very intense and clarified. Like, if I, if I would get on a high, I would want to go jogging.

[B]

Oh, you just, like, you have to burn this energy.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's got to be expended or something.

[A]

Yeah. And if I'm in a low, then that is the last thing I want to do. It's just like, oh, that is so much work. I do not. Why would I spend any of the little energy that I do have going on a run?

[B]

This sounds like it could be at least the high that you're describing, could be pretty hard on the body. Actually.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Is that true?

[A]

It is. It cannot be sustained. So. So people with extreme bipolar, which, you know, I've dealt with this now for more than half of my life, since my late teens, and I'm in my middle to upper 40s. I have had a number of cycles up and down, but some people that have experienced it with more severe symptoms, they might have six months where they hardly sleep at all and they just work and knock out mountains of work and then maybe hardly show up for another six months or more while their body recovers. And so the body cannot sustain the kind of activity, mentally or physically, that a high brings. And so there's then this decline into the low side or the depressive side, and that it seems like if the higher the high was, the lower and longer the low will be. I think as time goes on, I experience. It seems like I experience shorter highs and, and longer lows. But only. Only time will tell. I don't know how it will play out, but most people that have had a bipolar diagnosis will. Will tend to struggle more with the low. But people see what they see mostly is the high reoccurring. The low is much less obvious to the people around them.

[B]

So, yeah, like, coming into this interview, I knew absolutely nothing about bipolar at all. So this is all news to me. So one of my next questions then out. Like, from what you're describing, this time at Bible school, you're on a high. You start taking those pills, the medication. Does that put you into a low? Does that put you into an average of the two do. Were you able to stay at Bible school, finish out the term? Like, how did it affect your life? Like, again, I'm just trying to imagine this happening at a term of Bible school because, like, now everybody knows, and it would be like this, you know, it feels strange. It had to be tough on your family. Like, yeah, what an interesting experience. Just kind of how that all kind of came together, you know, for you.

[A]

Yes. So it did not put me into a low quickly. It stabilized me so that I could finish the term. You know, I finished my studies, took the tests and went home. I would say finished fairly average and then went back to work on the farm. And then as spring gave way to summer, then I went into a low, which was my body trying to recover from what I had spent all that I had taken out of the bank, or that a lot of times that's the way I think of it. If I spend down those resources of whatever that is in my physical body, then it's going to be. I'll feel bankrupted at some point. And so then I went into very severe depression that summer to where it was difficult to keep working. But my parents encouraged me to try to keep my routines, which was very good that they did. They encouraged me to keep my routines and, and I did stay on the lithium then for. For a couple of years.

[B]

So you're on it over that time while you're having this slow.

[A]

Yeah, they, they, they put me back on a. On a normal dose. I don't remember what the milligrams were, but more of a normal dose than after about six days to kind of once I was down off that extreme high, then went on a normal dose then after that.

[B]

So tell me about the low. So you were telling. Here's what it was like during the high. You come home the low. What was that like?

[A]

Yeah, so that's. I think I want to take some time here to try to explain or, or just talk about the contrast so that. Yeah, so the people kind of get a sense of, of what it, what it might feel like or be like to, to experience it. So in, in a high or, or even regular for me, what, whatever normal is, especially as the way I remembered it before my diagnosis, I would be glad for challenges. I would enjoy embracing opportunities that might seem pretty big. Whereas in a low, then any little thing can feel overwhelming. And decision making is very difficult. It just seems like my mind doesn't. It doesn't want to make decisions. It wants to avoid decision making. It's just, it's hard to describe as contrasted to a high where decision making is just snap, snap, snap. It's just, it comes and you might not make good decisions, but they're easy to make. You don't, you don't feel this, oh, I don't know if I should do this. It just comes.

[B]

So when it's hard to make the decision, do you feel that as a sense of this takes too much energy to make this decision, so I'll just procrastinate. Is it kind of like that?

[A]

It often results in procrastination to where it's so easy to just avoid big decisions or even little decisions and hope that if I just wait, maybe I won't have to make them, which, you know, doesn't make any sense. When, when I'm on a high, I think, well, that is dumb to put off decisions. You just make them and, and you go. Another thing would be buying and spending. So on a high, I, I tend to. To spend or make financial decisions that involve putting money out there. And when I'm in a low, then I don't want to spend money. I don't want to take any risks. Let's just keep everything kind of as it is. So that's a common thing for people that struggle with bipolar spending sprees tend to go with the high side. You know, not being careful about where the money's going. When I feel well, then I'm glad that I'm self employed and there's a lot of decision making needs to be done. If you're self employed and we, we have a farm which, which involves, you know, daily decisions and, and seasonal decisions related to crops and, and so on. It's, it's normal. It takes a lot of decision making. When I feel great, then that feels like a great fit and I'm glad that I'm doing that. When I don't feel well, then I wish I would be in a job where I would just go somewhere and they would tell me what to do and I would do those tasks and then I would go home and I wouldn't have to think about it because that decision making would be on someone else and not on me. So there's that contrast which can make identity around work and you know, what should I be doing with my life? It can make that difficult because, you know, one year I might be thriving as a farmer and the next I might, I don't why in the world am I doing this? And it may or may not have anything to do with whether it's succeeding financially. It's, that's not really what drives the feelings about it. It's the way my brain is processing. A couple of other areas. I already mentioned sleep. But when I feel great, it's not unusual for me to wake up at four in the morning and want to get up. I might know that I should stay in bed and go back to sleep, but I would have to discipline myself to stay in bed because I know that would be better for my body. When I'm in a low then waking up is the worst thing in my day. I just wish I didn't have to wake up. I could just because there are going to be decisions that have to be made. There are things to face and it's just. I would rather avoid that. So the contrast there is something that is just very stark. And when I'm in a high, I think, well, I will never want to sleep long again. I mean, that's so silly to want to stay in bed when I could be up doing something, whether it's writing email or organizing things or working on a project. So it's just, it's just interesting how both of those realities can be so. Yes, for lack of better word, so real in the same person but not at the same time. But over time it switches from one to the other.

[B]

How long is this switch?

[A]

That's a good question. So it varies in people. For me, I would say it's usually months. Like, maybe three to six months.

[B]

Okay, so this isn't something that happens in a couple of days or whatever?

[A]

Not usually for me. Yeah. Once in a while, I'll go from a low to a high pretty quickly. Like, I'll wake up one morning and I'll feel adrenaline, and I'll feel like I want to get up, and I know that something has changed. Sometimes that's pretty. Pretty fast, but usually it's more gradual. For some people with bipolar, it's often very fast. But not so much with me.

[B]

If it would happen quick, man, that would be rough. When I'm thinking, even on your body, too, like, that switch seems like it'd be pretty hard on you.

[A]

Yes. For you, for sure. And then, of course, even more so for the people that live with you. Wait, so sue will say sometimes, you know, and sue is such a blessing in my journey. Has been such a blessing. She will say sometimes, well, she has to readjust because now I'm not the same as I was, you know, three weeks ago. Who. Oh, yeah. She has to kind of reorient that I'm going to be this way now for. For maybe several months, so that. That can be difficult for her. It takes a special person to live with someone that. That deals with bipolar.

[B]

I hadn't even thought of that angle yet. You know that all the people in your life having to adjust to those, I don't know, rhythms, patterns, changes.

[A]

Yes. In many ways, the low is the most difficult for me, but the high is the most difficult for the people around me.

[B]

Okay, tell me more.

[A]

So with the low, I'll be predictable. Sue wouldn't have to worry about me going out and making an investment or spending money.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And I'll probably just stick around home. I'll show up at normal times, and maybe I won't be talkative, but I won't be hard to live with. Whereas the high, you know, the unpredictability of that, maybe overexcited, kind of. Kind of rootless, shifty. Some of those things are what makes the high more difficult. And, you know, conversations. For me, when I'm. When I'm on a high, conversation comes easier because I have lots of thoughts. Just for example, coming to this convention once a year as part of Anabaptist perspectives. If I'm on a little bit of a high, I will have to work very hard to restrain myself from dominating the conversation because I will constantly be having thoughts that I think are worthy of being Heard. And they may or may not be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I'm in a low, then I'll wonder, well, why am I even here? Like, I don't belong on this board. I don't even have anything to say. And I'll sit here and try to think, well, is there something I could say that would be helpful? And it'll be just feeling like work, and then I might doze off. You know, what good is a board member that sleeps through a third of the meeting? I mean, this is silly. So those two realities can. That's how it would maybe play out in this sort of a setting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I love when I'm. When I'm on a high or feeling good. I love to do things. I love to work. I love to play. I love to go here and go there.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's like I'm getting nerve. What they call neurofeedback. When we. When we do things and we feel enjoyment from them, we want to do them more. And that is. That is the way that we were designed. But it's like I get maybe too much of that. And so dial's been turned up almost

[B]

like the sensory dialogue.

[A]

Yes, somehow. And so I love to work, and I want to work more. I love to play and do things. I want to do more. What I should be just calm down and live faithfully with your wife and family. In contrast to that, then when I'm in depression, in a low, I get almost no neurofeedback. So I can go do something which I used to really enjoy, and I just do it. And it just feels. I don't really feel anything. I don't really enjoy it. I just did it. And you don't think about how much that neurofeedback actually works or is motivating until that's stripped away. We get neurofeedback from working, from playing, from being with people, from prayers. Just a lot of different areas of our life. And when that is taken away, it can make it difficult to want to live.

[B]

It's like that. Kind of like that sensory dial, but instead dialed all the way up. It's, like, dialed way back, you know,

[A]

so whether that's serotonin or GABA or some of the other neurotransmitters, you know, that's still fairly mysterious even to the best scientists, exactly why this is happening. But it. The reality is it's not there in the same way we were used to.

[B]

You've had this for enough time. Maybe in a way, you can kind of Recognize it and so forth. But it's gotta feel disorienting, I would think, every time, right? Because it's like this was who I was, and now a few weeks, few months later, it's like it's now flipped and then again, and then it just kind of keeps happening. Is that the right word? Disorienting or confusing or just like, oh, boy, here it comes again. Like, yeah, what. What's that part like?

[A]

I think the. The word that comes to my mind or. Or the. The thought of. Of identity or who am I? Becomes more difficult because if. If God created me this one way, then I should pursue vocation and things kind of around that. But if it's this other way, where I hardly have energy to make decisions, then it wouldn't be good for me to make commitments that. That require a lot of emotional energy. Something like teaching school. I taught school for nine years, and that was good for me to do that. But there were times when I just felt like I didn't have enough emotional energy to go on. And to be able to keep going on without kind of putting that on the students or causing them to suffer with me, you know, could be very difficult. So, yeah, I don't know if disorienting is the right word, but maybe it is. It can be difficult to know, well, who am I really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. I mean. Yeah, because it would feel like it's a moving target almost, you know, so. And.

[A]

And we'll get. We'll get to more of this in a bit, but. But I have to come back to the. The reality that the core of who I am is I. I am a child of God. And my feelings, the way my brain is functioning, whether it feels great or whether it feels terrible. Is not the core of what defines me as a person. And that no matter how I feel, we can, by God's grace, we can press on. We can take the next little step.

[B]

And you mentioned teaching school in there. Just from what you're describing, I can imagine that was challenging at points. And I. I can't imagine having to teach school with. With the dynamics that you've been describing. Right. That must have been very hard at times. But then you also just said how, you know, having the perspective, perseverance, to just take that next small step. Was that kind of what it was like for you for those nine years?

[A]

You know, I didn't have a lot of times when. When it just felt like daily survival. I just can hardly make it through the day. It seemed like I had grace for Those years, and for a lot of them, I. I think I felt fairly normal. But there were times when it became very difficult. And that's probably why I'm not in the classroom right now. It's a challenging question. I would hope to re engage with that at some point. The desire, the desire to teach and to pass on something that is in my heart and mind to someone else is something that I think I was born with. And right now it feels like that's kind of idled, but yet it's still there. But in order for that to flourish, there's a desire to. To teach and to pass something good on to another person. But that takes emotional energy. And so I might have the desire I want to give someone else what I feel or what I think, but I lack the emotional energy to carry that out. And so it can make it more likely that I will say no to things like teaching opportunities. I'm 48. That's old and that's not old. So I don't know what will be in store yet. God can still bring that back to life if he wants to. I want to be open to that, but that feels like a part of me that is not thriving. Another way that I describe the difference between the high and the low, the high is kind of like attending your own graduation day after day. A graduation is when you kind of sense, you have this sense of accomplishment and then you look forward and you think, wow, there's going to be great things ahead. It's kind of like the possibilities are wide open. That's what a high feels like. Whereas a low kind of feels like attending your own funeral. Because the way that you experience life, the joys that come from just living, working and playing and being with people just kind of are gone. And it's like I'm this shell kind of walking around going through the motions. But where am I? I'm not. The real me isn't there. That sounds a little morbid, but I know that some people, I've listened to some people describe grief around losing a person that was very close to them and those feelings of grief and how it affects them emotionally and physically and so on. I can relate to that in my own experience. Not. I have never lost someone through death very close to me. But it kind of feels that same way with, well, where did the Arlen go that I used to know? Is he ever going to come back? And those kinds of feelings.

[B]

So to go back a bit when the diagnosis happens and kind of beginning the journey as. As you were Describing there earlier, how did your church community respond to this? And like, like for example, it seems like it could be easy to turn something like this, well, this is a spiritual problem or maybe, you know, mental health things can be maybe a little hush hush or. You know what I mean? Like, and there's maybe a bit of a taboo around some of this stuff, depending on where you go. Of course. I know there's a lot of variety in how people respond to these things. But in your experience, what happened next for the people around you, for your community?

[A]

Yeah, that's, that's a good question. I feel like I cannot, I cannot think of any, any times when I felt judged or you know, sidelined. I feel like my community was trying to understand. I think it was since the main episode happened away from my home community, I think it was maybe hard for some of the local people to really understand how, how life altering that was for me and, and for my family and, and maybe, maybe they would just kind of hope that it would go away. Not, not being able to, to comprehend and, and empathize. But, but that's, that's normal. It's kind of like for me, like I said, I, I haven't experienced the loss of a person very close to me. And so I don't really know what to say to someone who is going through that. And I wish I could do something to help them, but I can't really think of anything. And so I might just not talk to them about it. And maybe that's kind of the way it was for me. I didn't feel, I didn't feel judged. I think most people just hoped that would, would take care of itself as far as yeah, how the church should look at it or what does the church. Is it a spiritual issue? You know, some, some groups it seems like kind of err on the side of it's just all a spiritual problem. And then others, well, you need to get a psychiatrist to fix you or a therapist. And I don't know the answer. I doubt there's any such thing as a correct or perfected official position for a church to take on mental health. It's just. Is so nuanced. And is it a physical or a spiritual problem? The answer is yes. It has physical and spiritual components and it's really difficult to separate those. I'm not sure how much we should try to separate those. So maybe it's God's way of helping me learn not to be narcissistic, to be maybe a spiritual thing for me to learn was humility and compassion. You know, if I had, for all my life, had just felt very good mentally, then how would I empathize with people that can hardly get out of bed or that don't feel motivated or that feel very sad about things? And I just wouldn't get it. So in a sense, it's a spiritual. It's an opportunity for me to grow spiritually. I once heard a preacher say that bipolar is a generational sin. And I thought, well, I don't know. That's kind of a stretch. Maybe it is. I didn't really feel offended by that, but I don't. You know, so far we haven't identified that. But at the same time, I'm always open. I want to be open to whatever God wants to do. There is. There is always spiritual growth for Arlen to, to be called to, To. To accept and, and to embrace. And if. If a bipolar diagnosis includes, yeah, should include spiritual growth, it. It's not just a spiritual problem. Neurotransmitters not functioning correctly. It is a physical problem, but it's. It's not only a physical problem.

[B]

So where would your faith be in all of this? Like, how does the, the spiritual or what you believe intersect with the topic of mental health in your specific case?

[A]

You know, I think that's. That's one of the most important questions. Except for faith. I wouldn't be here. I mean, I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you, but I don't know if I would even be alive. Severe mental health sometimes results in suicide. And there have been times, there have been multiple times when I. When I would much rather have been dead than been alive. I can remember times when, you know, driving down the road and just wishing, you know, a truck would hit me so that I could just be done with life. But somehow faith that. That God. God is real. God is good. And he is bigger than these. These feelings that I'm having. And he will make a way. That faith that was, I would say, exemplified by my parents, by my church community. I think the biggest contribution of my church community in my family is simply faith. Faith in God and knowing and believing and trusting in him when I cannot make sense of it, when it doesn't feel right, but still clinging to God in faith. And Jesus to me is a rock. He's an anchor. He's the one that keeps my soul safe. When I don't feel the way that I think people should feel or that feels right or good. Another part of. Of the faith journey has been like, I mentioned earlier seeing God working in my heart to develop compassion and empathy. Like somebody said, empathy has an expiration date and I'm surprised how quickly I can forget how it feels when I go back onto a maybe normal or a little higher than normal. But it's good for me. It's humbling and it helps me get in line with the reality of what God sees and feels to, to have to walk through some of the difficult lows and, and has helped me become. I have a long ways to go. But, but people that are close to me will acknowledge this also that it has helped me to become an empathetic, more of an empathetic person. And I want to keep growing in that and, but I do, I do see how God has used this to grow that compassion and empathy in my soul.

[B]

So this is a. Still a current thing for you. Like are you still. It is seeking for help, looking for options. I mean, what does that look like for you? Like today?

[A]

Yes. So I always keep a bottle of lithium on hand and especially for the highs. And I will use that mostly according to Sue's direction or encouragement. I would not like to be dependent on lithium, but it does still work, it does still stabilize my mood. If I'm really low, it'll help bring me up a little. I'm really high, it'll help bring me down a little. So it's there in the toolbox. There are a number of things that I have done over the years and most of these at the direction or encouragement of others. So those of us with bipolar disorder are not great at self treating. So we have to learn to, to listen. But we've, we've done things like hair analysis, blood analysis, you know, the traditional psychiatry. But my psychiatrist admitted that, you know, she really does not have a cure for me. She's not even allowed to prescribe an antidepressant because I am at risk for the high which an antidepressant can bring on. So I've never taken an antidepressant even when I'm very low. It would be too risky.

[B]

It would.

[A]

Too risky. Yeah.

[B]

I didn't think of that. Yeah. So you. That that kind of limits some, some options there for sure.

[A]

You know, diet, you know, working with, working with it through diet is, is important. Eat good proteins, meat and eggs and then good veg based proteins as well. I eat a lot of beans and beans are good for the brain is

[B]

some of that like when we're looking at the nutrition route, trying to find things that yeah, are good for the Brain, like keeping the brain strong and healthy?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is that the idea?

[A]

That's the idea, yeah. For the nervous system in general, the brain in particular. And this isn't. Again, this isn't rocket scientists almost.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of doctors will agree on this. It's some of the low hanging fruit. It's hard because it's hard because it's not easy. Right. It's so much you have to alter what's normal or what's normal in our, in our culture as far as food goes. But it's not mysterious that it does help. We haven't found it to be a cure, but it does help. I've also pursued functional medicine, which is doctors that try to get to the root of things rather than just prescribing something that takes care of the symptoms. And I'm currently on a thyroid medication which we thought was, was having was helping some. I think it does help some. I don't think it'll end up being a cure but you know, some help is better than nothing. I also take niacin or vitamin B3 that's an anti inflammatory and it's an over the counter vitamin that does seem to have a positive effect on the brain over time. And then I also have taken testosterone supplements and now I'm on a supplement that is supposed to help with testosterone levels. So essentially hormone therapy through vitamins. So those are some of the things and I'm willing and open to other interventions. I don't know if I'll ever be well. I do know one day I will be cured when we receive a new body. That will be a very special thing for me.

[B]

Yeah, and, and I think that's the piece that struck me with this story is we're kind of dialoguing back and forth about this interview beforehand. Often with these interviews, you know, I'm looking for the part of the story where we're like, and then I got better or then everything was fixed and that's the, you know, yay, everything's good now. Your story isn't that. And the part about that that intrigues me though is still your, your patience, your faithfulness and like you kind of mentioned earlier, that at least can take that next step, even if it's small. Talk to me about that though. I'm sure that's not always easy. And especially the fact that like you just said, you haven't been cured yet, you haven't found a magic solution, et cetera. Talk to me about that.

[A]

Yes, that is part of the journey where faith, I think Makes such a big difference. So with the mental illness, it's good for me. It's good for us to remember that having a diagnosis, diagnosis of a mental illness never excuses or makes sinful actions or behaviors acceptable. And it would be terrible if the church would say, well, okay, Arlen's doing this or that, but, you know, it's because he has bipolar and not hold him accountable. And I'm glad that, that I don't. I don't have people around me that excuse or, or that would excuse anything. You know, when, when I don't feel like getting up, it is still good to remember that laziness is, is not going to bring, is not going to help, is not going to be the answer. And sometimes I need people to encourage me in that. It can be hard to get up and press forward. Sometimes when I'm, you know, working, doing my chores, or getting ready to go do something, I just, I. I find myself praying, like, over and over, God, help me to be faithful, Help me to do the next thing. I don't feel like doing this, but I'm going to trust you and I'm going to keep going anyway. That, that confidence that God is near and he can help me to go on, even when I feel so weak and small. I don't think that would be possible without faith. I don't know how it would be. So a lot is really just sticking with the things that I have been taught and have known as, you know, through God's work and pressing on in that not knowing what the outcome is going to be or whether I'm going to struggle more or less for the rest of my life, I don't know. But God knows and he can make a way and he will. And if it's my lot to continue to suffer in this way, you know, we're promised that in this life we will have trouble. And if this is the suffering that I am called to so that the work of God, the name of God, can be lifted up, then I want to walk in this in faithfulness. If tomorrow he sends a cure, or maybe someone listening to this will say, well, this is what Arla needs, and they'll contact me and I'll do that, and then I'll be better. If God wants it to be that way, then I'm willing and I'll be glad for that as well.

[B]

What would you say to someone who's listening to this, who might be quietly struggling with something like this? And maybe they're scared or ashamed and they're not telling Anyone, what would you say to someone like that?

[A]

I think that it is good for us to. To talk about these things to each other. We might not think that we can express ourselves or no one is going to understand, or it might be shameful. But to be able to, just to share with those around us, whether it's one or two people or more, is so important. So the stigma of, well, that's a mental illness, and I don't want to be in that category. I think we just need to learn to receive the grace that God wants to bring to us. And receiving that grace includes just saying what we're thinking and feeling from time to time. I will request prayer for my mental health in our church meeting. And so then people who care can pray for me. And maybe some will come and ask me how I'm doing. I'm also. I've joined nami, which is the national association on Mental Illness, I think. So there's a support group that. And I've just. I've just joined, so I haven't really experienced this much yet, but to get together in a. In an online meeting twice a month and talk to people in my local area who are also facing mental health challenges, that's a good thing. And then just talk to my wife, to be able to talk to her. And if someone's not married, to have a friend or a parent or a mentor to talk to is a big key. It's not going to make. It's not going to make it go away, but it's the way that God wants us to help each other. God wants us to receive help and encouragement from our brothers and sisters. And if they don't know that we're struggling, how are they supposed to help us? Will there be times when they might say or do something that's not helpful? Probably so, but we were not created to live in isolation or to silently deal with these things. We simply cannot live like that. Having routines is important. So things that we do regularly and daily that we don't have to decide or make a decision about, those kinds of things are healthy for us that struggle with our mental health. Prayer is essential for me. I pray in private some, but I also pray with people, so I pray with sue regularly. And then there's a couple fellows from our congregation that I meet with regularly, early mornings to pray with them, and that has been very helpful and supportive. Again, it doesn't make the suffering go away, but makes a path through the suffering. And it's a way for God to minister to me through the people that he's put around me. And I would encourage beyond telling people, like I said, it's difficult for those of us who have mental health issues to self treat or to know which doctor to go to or. And so in seeking help, it's so important to have people around us that can help us navigate those decisions. We might not want to get help when we should, or we might feel so overwhelmed with our situation that making a decision about what doctor to go to or how to find one just seems so big that we'll just, we'll just neglect to do it. And so having, having people to help us make a decision like that is important.

[B]

Arlen, in this conversation we've covered a lot of things, but was there anything in particular you wanted to discuss that we didn't get to.

[A]

I'm not sure how to best say this, but you ask about, you know, how does the church help? Or what is this? What ought to be the church's response. And I think one thing that I have, have learned and I wonder how, how it came to be that I, I kind of believed this, but Jesus promised that, that following him would not be easy and that we should expect challenges and difficulties. And I think when I chose to follow Jesus and be a part of the body of Christ, the church, I think somehow I expected that I would feel blessed for doing that or for following God and that blessing would somehow translate into less suffering and that there would be people who follow God, experience less suffering, suffering. And that is something that's kind of a deeply held belief that I've had to come to acknowledge and accept rather the truth of what Jesus said,

[B]

that

[A]

to follow him will be suffering and that to lay down our life and to take up our cross and follow him, that will be normal and to learn that there is joy in suffering. Suffering is not something to be avoided or to be eradicated. If the church tries to portray that the following God is going to take care of suffering, then how are we going to learn to embrace the way of Jesus? It's not our calling to take away our own suffering or other people's suffering. It is our calling to embrace what God brings and to learn to follow him in that and to be open to the joy, like one of the poets said, to the joy which will come when he sees it meet. And that can be sometimes look like a long ways off for those of us who suffer in this way. But it will come. Our life on earth is very short and our suffering will soon be done. And we look forward that this is not a close cliche, but, but we look, we look forward to redemption when our, our lives will be made perfect for those of us who, who suffer in this way, you know, the joy of that new life, that perfect nervous system will be just that much sweeter. And so I look forward in hope no matter what may come yet in this life, I look forward in hope and faith, trusting that his promises will come true.

[B]

Thank you for being willing to share about this. This is something we, at least for myself, I didn't know anything about. I didn't, didn't understand and it feels like you've opened a bit of a door for me. Try to understand a little bit more and wow, this has been. Yeah, I just, I really thank you for your openness and willingness to share about these things today.

[A]

Yes. Thank you for the opportunity and I hope that it can be, it can be bring hope to someone who may be struggling or hope to people who are trying to help those who are struggling.

[B]

Thanks for listening to this episode with Arlen. We did another one with Michael where he describes how communities can better support those in need along some of the similar lines of what Arlen was saying. You can find that episode linked in the description below. Thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.