E409 A Traumatic Tern Statue and a Fainting Couch for Two

Summary

Podcast Summary: "And That's Why We Drink" - Episode E409: A Traumatic Tern Statue and a Fainting Couch for Two

Introduction

In Episode E409 of "And That's Why We Drink," hosts Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz delve into a blend of personal anecdotes, spooky tales, and a gripping true crime story. Released on December 8, 2024, the episode intertwines chilling ghost stories with the unsettling murder of Eric Pterack, all the while maintaining the show's signature blend of humor and suspense.

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Personal Anecdotes and Holiday Preparations

The episode kicks off with Christine and Em sharing their holiday experiences, focusing on gift shopping and family traditions. Christine recounts her recent purchase of a mourning dove statue from an estate sale, detailing its sentimental value and the memories it evokes about her stepmother.

Notable Quote:

Christine (13:10): "I bought this at Walgreens, and I thought I'd treat myself to a non-water drink, but the reason I drink is because of this little fella."

Em complements Christine’s enthusiasm and shares her own experiences with gift shopping, emphasizing the challenges of finding meaningful presents.

Notable Quote:

Em (28:21): "I bought you something, and it arrived so big that I thought, 'Oh no, Em’s never going to allow this.'"

The hosts discuss their love for unique gifts, such as advertising crates from the 1800s and digital picture frames, highlighting their appreciation for both historical artifacts and modern technology.

Notable Quote:

Christine (12:02): "It's clinically proven to block odor all day and control odor for up to 72 hours."

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Ghost Stories and the Sword Gates House

Transitioning into the paranormal, Christine and Em explore the haunted history of the Sword Gates House in Charleston. They provide a detailed account of the house’s architecture and its eerie legends, particularly focusing on Madame Talvand, the strict headmistress whose spirit is said to patrol the halls.

Notable Quote:

Em (58:00): "Some say she was a prison warden, except she used a yardstick to enforce discipline."

The hosts describe various ghostly phenomena reported at the house, including apparitions, mysterious noises, and unsettling interactions with invisible entities. They speculate on the origins of the haunting, debating whether Madame Talvand’s restless spirit continues to guard the property or if other supernatural forces are at play.

Notable Quote:

Christine (70:25): "Imagine being a kid just living there and hanging out in the yard at night, and all of a sudden you just see someone staring at you."

The discussion includes insights into the architectural features that may contribute to the house’s haunted reputation, such as wrought iron gates adorned with sword motifs and pre-Civil War ironwork.

Notable Quote:

Em (65:34): "These gates were originally intended for a police station, but they ended up on this house, adding to its mysterious allure."

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True Crime Story: The Murder of Eric Pterack

The centerpiece of the episode is the harrowing true crime story of Eric Pterack, a well-loved entrepreneur and community figure in West Hollywood. Born in 1970, Eric was known for his successful business, Roleplay Fashion, which catered to niche communities such as BDSM and furries.

Notable Quote:

Christine (85:03): "Eric's business became a social hub where people could dress up and have fun, creating a vibrant and inclusive environment."

In the fall of 2011, Eric experienced a violent home invasion that left him traumatized but alive. The assailants targeted his home under the misconception that he sold valuable jewelry, not realizing his merchandise was costume accessories. Despite installing a robust security system afterward, Eric's past would come back to haunt him tragically.

Notable Quote:

Em (96:48): "How many diamonds are worth a home invasion? Like, why?"

A year later, during a wild Halloween celebration in West Hollywood, Eric was brutally murdered outside his home. The security camera captured the attack, revealing the assailant wearing a basic mask and robe, blending seamlessly into the party atmosphere. The swift and fatal nature of the murder left the community in shock.

Notable Quote:

Christine (102:04): "He was murdered at exactly 2:09 AM on the day of his funeral."

The investigation led authorities to Michael Thomas, a man previously convicted for the 2011 home invasion. Although Michael was incarcerated at the time of Eric's murder, his manipulative nature surfaced through phone calls orchestrating the crime from prison. Michael had coerced his girlfriend and niece into committing the murder, revealing a deeply personal vendetta against Eric.

Notable Quote:

Christine (121:17): "He tried to get out of prison and ended up in prison for longer and for worse."

Despite ample evidence pointing towards Michael's influence and orchestration, the case highlighted the complexities of witness protection and the challenges in preventing perpetrators from inflicting further harm.

Notable Quote:

Em (126:23): "He tried to tell the police that everyone was playing video games together all night when Eric was killed."

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Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

As the episode draws to a close, Christine and Em reflect on the themes of misunderstanding and prejudice. They critique the media’s portrayal of Eric’s business and the fatal consequences of misinformation. The hosts emphasize the importance of community support and the devastating impact of stereotypes.

Notable Quote:

Em (129:00): "It's important to realize that it has pretty racist undercurrents. It's probably more like overcrowded current."

They conclude with a poignant reminder of Eric's innocence and the loss felt by those who knew him, underscoring the episode's blend of personal storytelling with true crime investigation.

Notable Quote:

Christine (129:14): "It's a good lesson, you know? Shaming the person who doesn't shame people when what you should be caring about is the fact that he got murdered."

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Final Remarks

Episode E409 of "And That's Why We Drink" masterfully combines personal anecdotes, ghostly legends, and a compelling true crime narrative. Christine and Em Schiefer provide listeners with an engaging and thought-provoking experience, staying true to the podcast’s motto: "The world's a scary place. And that's why we drink!"

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Christine (13:10): "I bought this at Walgreens, and I thought I'd treat myself to a non-water drink, but the reason I drink is because of this little fella."
2. Em (28:21): "I bought you something, and it arrived so big that I thought, 'Oh no, Em’s never going to allow this.'"
3. Christine (58:00): "Some say she was a prison warden, except she used a yardstick to enforce discipline."
4. Em (65:34): "These gates were originally intended for a police station, but they ended up on this house, adding to its mysterious allure."
5. Christine (85:03): "Eric's business became a social hub where people could dress up and have fun, creating a vibrant and inclusive environment."
6. Em (96:48): "How many diamonds are worth a home invasion? Like, why?"
7. Christine (102:04): "He was murdered at exactly 2:09 AM on the day of his funeral."
8. Em (129:00): "It's important to realize that it has pretty racist undercurrents. It's probably more like overcrowded current."
9. Christine (129:14): "It's a good lesson, you know? Shaming the person who doesn't shame people when what you should be caring about is the fact that he got murdered."

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This detailed summary captures the essence of Episode E409, providing listeners with an insightful overview of the discussions and stories shared by Christine and Em Schiefer.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Second verse. Now up and octave in the air.

[A]

Music everywhere. Here's the thing. We got bullied at our book signing into singing the Thanksgiving song. And it was our fault because it was deserved because we had forgotten to do it before Thanksgiving, as you all know. Now, we did it last week, which was December. Oops. But we got bullied. I will not be bullied into singing high notes anywhere.

[B]

I do think if I told you I was just going to run out to the dry cleaners and left you alone, you could do that the entire time and you wouldn't even.

[A]

Yeah, I wouldn't even notice.

[B]

Time went away. No.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. I go into, like, an alternate space. Hello, everyone. We're in mid December. That means it is. The holidays are moving and grooving, and we here over at 98.8 WWD are thrilled to share with you all of the holiday classics and oldies to 98-point 80 WWD. Oh, it's really good. That was really good.

[B]

Oh, thanks.

[A]

I love that. Let's change our show.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is it too late? Did we already buy the Domain for the first other one?

[B]

I. We could buy two Porcano. Yeah, no, we. I'm glad. You. I tried to keep my mouth shut because every time I know you, you want your spotlight moment with that song because I can't sing it.

[A]

Thank you for letting me. No, you have a way better singing voice than I do, but thank you for letting me do it because I wanted that moment where you. You finally waited and then you spoke and then I immediately sang over you. And it just like, to me was a really. It Felt fulfilling. So thank you for letting me have that, even though it was pretty rude of me.

[B]

No, I. I wish. You know how we have our title card? The. With the. That's Why I Drink theme song. Maybe for our Christmas episodes, we should just have you singing and, like, if Megan could ever put your face in where the MGM lion goes.

[A]

Just being like, ha, sauvoir. Did you know, I was gonna say, like, some podcasts, like Astonishing Legends, they put, like, little jingle bells during the holidays. Oh, that's nice. For their opening music. And I was like, oh, Em's gonna suggest that. No, ours is much darker and more sinister. It's me singing at a very unpleasant octave.

[B]

That's. You know what? It's a tradition at this point.

[A]

It unfortunately is. Yes.

[B]

One day we'll do past the cranberry sauce, but we'll have them drop our voices down several octaves and in slow mo with a lot of echo and reverb. Oh, and it'll be a horror movie.

[A]

Oh, I love that idea. We'll just start changing the vibes up, um, depending on the season. Well, Em, besides, obviously, this show that you got unsolicited and unasked for. What? Why do you drink this week?

[B]

Hmm? Why do I drink? Oh, you know what? When we were in Charleston, I got recognized by quite a few people, which is always lovely. But I had one encounter where someone came up and said, what's going on? You look really tired. I was like, I'm not. I just fucking look old, I guess. I don't know.

[A]

I. I mean, to. If anyone has the right to look tired, it would be us, at least while we.

[B]

But I wasn't. I, like, literally wasn't even tired. They were like, oh, you just look really tired. And I was like, is that your opener? I don't. I don't know. You look tired.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Leave you alone.

[A]

Maybe I should get. What did you even say? Did you say, like, I'm not? Or were you, like, oh, maybe to, like, play it off?

[B]

I did. I. I didn't know what to say. I, like.

[A]

Do they know that they've just sent you into a tizzy?

[B]

Well, now they do.

[A]

I know they do. Well, obviously, but did they know at the time?

[B]

It did catch me off guard, so maybe I looked, like, flustered after that. I don't know. I just. I just was like. I didn't think that was, like. I just didn't see it coming. I don't know.

[A]

Usually I feel like, as a woman myself, I usually get that comment When I'm not wearing makeup. Because it's like, yeah.

[B]

And I don't wear makeup.

[A]

People, like, catch, like, oh, you just look, you know, you haven't covered up the circles under your eyes and stuff. Maybe, maybe. I mean, I know you never wear makeup, so I don't know. But that's not.

[B]

I mean, that. I didn't mean to, like, come on here and, like, weirdly come after somebody. That's not what I was trying to do.

[A]

I was going to say, well, they're definitely peeing their pants and crying right now.

[B]

But in the. But in the moment of, like, why do I drink? I was like, what's happened recently? That kind of jarred me. That was just like, oh, maybe I need to go to a spa or something. I don't know, like, get my wrinkles unwrinkled or something.

[A]

You should go to. You should go to that Korean spa, those Korean spas in Koreatown where I used to live, where they will just exfoliate all the layers of your skin off. They'll just.

[B]

I think I need to peel a whole layer off.

[A]

Oh, they'll get it off. Don't worry.

[B]

No, I was. I didn't know what to say. I was just like, oh, I. You know, I. I think I said something like, oh, you know, traveling. But then that probably didn't. That, like, justified that they were right and, like, they weren't. But anyway, I think they said you.

[A]

Look tired, so maybe they were right. Maybe even though you didn't.

[B]

Maybe you do look tired. I didn't. I didn't feel tired. I felt fine.

[A]

Maybe you had a droopy eye. Like, I do.

[B]

I do have a droopy eye. It's called the Schultz. Oh.

[A]

Ours is called the Kaiser eye.

[B]

Oh, hey. All right. No, one of my eyes is, like. Like. Like, in some ways hooded. Like, I. Some. Like, when I wake up, I have a hooded eye, and then it slowly lifts.

[A]

That's what. Well, that's why you always make fun of my one eye. Because when I'm sleepy, the one eye droops more. And so when I wake up, it's like, I always wake that. And then when I fall asleep while drinking with you, I do the opposite, and it closes. So it sort of, like, opens and shuts the blinds early.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what's going on with that one eyelid. Because sometimes when I get up and I look in the mirror, it literally. I don't have an eyelid. Like, it's, like, completely covered, but only on one Side of my face and then the other one, my eyes, like, wide open. It's very odd.

[A]

It sounds like you're like the Babadook or something. I would be careful looking in the mirror.

[B]

I look in the mirror and I.

[A]

Don'T have any eyelids. Okay. I almost called you Renee. That's how bad this has gotten.

[B]

Okay. No, I don't know. I just. Regardless of how I look, if you bump into me, I'm feeling quite refreshed and good these days. So I don't know, maybe you saw something. Maybe you.

[A]

Maybe you had hat hair, you know, and it was like, maybe.

[B]

And I just looked disheveled.

[A]

And to be fair, we always talk about how tired and in need of naps we are on the show. So maybe they just kind of like.

[B]

Put two and two together. Yeah, maybe they were opening the door for me to say something about naps. And, like, that'd be like, the bit that I gave off. I don't know.

[A]

I've just never actually taken offense to that, I think, personally. So I don't want anyone to freak out out there, like, oh, my God, I said that one time. Or I listen, it doesn't bother. It doesn't faze me any. But I can understand why it would be. Why I would rub you the wrong way. But I think I was just more.

[B]

Surprised than rubbed the wrong way. I was just like, oh, what. What's. What's that about? So don't feel now. It made me second. Second guess whether or not I should go to bed. Go to bed.

[A]

Don't feel anxious out there, folks, because people have said a lot weirder things to us, and we've said a lot weirder things to other people. I was. Somebody at the book signing said to us, I still think about the time we posed for a picture and then realized we never gave them our camera. We were all just sitting there, standing there, posed for a picture. And we think about it every night, and it's so humiliating. And Em and I were like, we don't remember that. But we promise we remember things we've done that were just mortally embarrassing. So don't worry. Like, everybody has their own little, you know, stories in their head. But don't. Don't stress. It's. It's okay to say the wrong thing sometimes. Even if Em roasts you on their podcast.

[B]

I've said much worse things. I'm not.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, much dumber things every day.

[B]

One time I've. I said this at the book signing to somebody else because I was Trying to, like, ease their.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I said to somebody at a book signing, if you're this person, please keep it to yourself, because I'm so embarrassed about it. Don't let anybody know that you're the person I said this to. I was trying to compliment someone, and I think the cute aggression came out. And I said something about, like, I just want to, like, punch you in the face. I said something really unnecessarily violent, and I meant it as a compliment. And I think about it all the time, so.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, it is. It's a good one to think about, you know, It's a good one to ruminate on and really do some introspection.

[B]

And then half of the interaction after that was me just apologizing and making. Making it weirder because I was like, I promise I didn't mean I actually want to punch you in the face.

[A]

Was that the place? I'm not gonna say. I'm not gonna locate it, but was that the place where afterward we, like, all wandered around in. In the store for a long time? Was that that sign?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know. When it's all a haze, maybe I am.

[A]

Was it the day of the inflatable tiara?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I. All I remember is saying something just so fucking wild that I can't remember anything else. So.

[A]

Well, I don't remember it, apparently, so don't worry.

[B]

Anyway, if I look tired, I think I can. I can take that. Compared to I would have punched you in the face.

[A]

Yeah. That would have been a much more different meeting between you and a listener.

[B]

I think if someone said that, though, I would have been like, oh, I get it. I don't know why that one would bother me less. I don't know.

[A]

What if they. What if they said, well, now people are just going to jokingly come up to us and say they're going to punch us in the face, and we're going to be so startled every time. And it's.

[B]

I won't, because I already think about that phrase all the time.

[A]

I know, but I don't. I feel like I've just gotten caught in the crossfire before I'm going to punch you. I'm like, what?

[B]

Well, now that's what happens when we're a team.

[A]

Now you tell me I look tired. You can tell. How about I get the tired comments because I am tired? Yes. And B, I look at. And how about, see, I don't care, and m On the other hand, can take the punches.

[B]

Yeah. Perfect. So anyway, I guess I drink because I. I need to face my. My aging. I guess maybe I just look older when people see me in real life.

[A]

I mean, a lot of our photos are also like 7 years old. Our website and stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know. We probably all look.

[B]

So maybe I just need to hired her. Maybe I just need to.

[A]

Maybe you need one of those Taylor Swift back braces that makes you stand up really straight.

[B]

Oh, okay. Christine, would you be offended if someone, say, me gave you deodorant as a gift?

[A]

No, I'd be thrilled.

[B]

I just want to smell the pits. Okay. And that's why we're talking about Lumi.

[A]

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[B]

I very excited to give you a whiff.

[A]

I have an alpine scent too. That one. Now that is a game changer.

[B]

That'll get things cooking. So if you want to give the gift of Lumi confidence or treat yourself, head to lumideodorant.com and use our exclusive code DRINK for an extra 15 off all Lumi products.

[A]

Lumi Starter pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant cream tube deodorant. Two free products of your choice like a mini body wash and deodorant wipes and free shipping.

[B]

New customers get 15% all Lumi products with our exclusive code. And if you combine the 15% off off with the already discounted starter pack, that equals over 40 off their starter pack. Use code DRINK for 15 off your first [e-mail] that's code DRINK at L U M E D E O D O R A N T dot com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Why do you drink?

[A]

Oh, thank you so much for asking. Well, first of all, I went to Walgreens today and I bought this body armor and it's my favorite flavor, Strawberry grape, which probably sounds gross to a lot of people, but it's really fucking good.

[B]

And strawberry.

[A]

Oh, Grabberry. That sure. Yeah. We'll. We'll circle back to that. Em. Circle back to Grabberry. Anyway, so I bought this at Walgreens And I don't know, I thought I'd treat myself to a non, non water drink, but the reason I drink is because of this little fella. Hold on. Here it comes. Here it comes.

[B]

Oh, you got yourself a little. Is it. Was it once alive bird?

[A]

Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

[B]

That sounds like a yes to me.

[A]

No, he's a carving I wouldn't do. I wouldn't. I would not want a real bird in my house.

[B]

That's a car, like, carved and painted. That looks real.

[A]

It's unbelievable.

[B]

Like, it looks real. I literally thought it was a diaper.

[A]

All the texture on it is carved.

[B]

You know, I've always been so jealous of Woodlers.

[A]

Yeah, he, like, clearly was talented at this. So the guy. Okay, so you know how I'm back on. Well, you don't know until now, but I'm back on my estate sale bullshit again. As you know, I go through phases. And so today I went to pick this guy up because I won him. I had been. I was in a. I was in a fierce bidding war for this fella. But mourning doves are my favorite bird. I think you and I have discussed morning doves before. Or maybe you're just like, what are you even talking about?

[B]

But that feels right.

[A]

I think it feels right. It's the one that go. That's coos like in the morning. Anyway, I love morning doves. And they always think. Make me think of my stepmom. And this is very full circle. Well, first of all, the guy who made it. Okay, look, he wrote on the bottom. I don't know if you can see it, and it's upside down, but it basically says morning dove. And it's this explorer or not explorer. This, like, naturalist and preservationist guy from Ohio who died and he made. This is number one out of 80 mourning doves that he made.

[B]

The fact that he made that and then thought 79 more for me, I'm like, what? My proudest joy, to be fair, it.

[A]

Says 1 out of 80. I don't know that maybe he filled up all the 80. Maybe he did two out of 80 and went, never mind.

[B]

There's like 78 more to come.

[A]

Yeah. Now they just say one out of 80, but it says one out of 80. And I was in a little bidding war for this guy, but I really, really, really, really, really wanted him. And he's just perfect. I had to put a little wood glue under his foot there because he's a little wobbly. But I think what I'm going to do is gift him to my stepmother because growing up for Christmas. Because growing up, we always had a lot of mourning doves in our yard. And my stepmom used to like, teach us about mourning doves. And I don't know, it's just something I associate with her. And it's full circle because in high school or middle school, after she made me go to turn where we had the pointed sticks and all that. Oh, yeah, yeah. So after that, as some sort of, like, she. As some sort of sick gift. I forget what I had, like, asked for for Christmas. I don't know, some new boots or something. And she was like, here's your big present. And it's in this big box. And I'm thinking like, oh, finally they actually got me something I wanted. That's exciting. I open up this box and it's a frickin. I mean, talk about PTSD trigger. It's this giant carved wooden statue of a turn. And I was like, wah. And I was like, I don't want that in my room. I can't look at that. And she was like, what? Why? And I was like, we had the most nightmarish, like, attack of the birds incident a few months ago. And to her, I guess it was just charming and delightful. I was traumatized. So anyway, we had this bird statue and it became like this running joke in the family, like, I don't want the turn statue. Even though, like, she spent so much money on it, it was such a big deal. And she had a personally carved. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, I don't want a statue of a bird for Christmas. Thank you. I'm also 14. And then today I. Or I. I bought this.

[B]

It's beautiful.

[A]

And I was like, oh, this will be a nice, like a kind of an apology gift. Because I was probably being kind of an. But B, like, it's the bird that always made me think of her. And she's like a huge bird nerd and. And nature nerd. So I think she'll really like it. So anyway, he's. I picked him up today and he's my new pride and joy.

[B]

I. Have you named him yet?

[A]

I feel like, you know, I haven't.

[B]

That's coming.

[A]

I haven't. I could call him Chauncey Bliss, but we already have one of those, I guess.

[B]

Also, I think you'll get too emotionally attached and then not want to give Chauncey Bliss to another person.

[A]

I was about to say, I'm so worried. I'm so worried about giving him away because I'M like, I mean, I assume someday I would get him back in the will. Not to be dramatic or dark, but, like, you know, it's not like I'm gifting him, like, to someone I'll never see again.

[B]

But I think about that too, where I'm like, do I want this back later when it's my turn?

[A]

Yeah. Yes. And so I was like, well, I mean, but it, you know, I don't know. I haven't decided yet.

[B]

I. It is very. I really thought it was taxidermied. It looked so real.

[A]

Isn't it?

[B]

For that to just be wood is amazing.

[A]

It's all wood. And he hand whittled it. Yeah. Like you said, it's beautiful.

[B]

I've always been jealous of whittlers. Same. The same amount of jealousy I have for tinkerers.

[A]

You would. I feel like you, though, fit that mold. Like, you could. You could become that stepdad stereotype. Like, I think you have it in.

[B]

I've thought about it. I have too many sharp tools for.

[A]

Me, but I think you could really pull it off there.

[B]

Thank you. There are a few times where I've thought, like, I could go for a new hobby, and whittling always comes up. But then I always. Okay, it's. It's a skill that I think I'd get too frustrated about that I didn't nail the first time, and then I would give up.

[A]

You get it?

[B]

What?

[A]

You didn't nail it the first time. Oh, yes. Well, I think woodworking would be a great hobby for you, especially now that you have a little more space, like outdoor. Like a little outdoor space at your new place. I feel like you'd be really good at it, especially because, like, I'm not careful enough. Like, when I sew things, for example, they go like, kind of like this, and it drives my mother up the wall. But I feel like you're very precise. I mean, you've seen me hang curtains, but you're crafting or when you're, like, doing even just, like, stuff around. Visually, you're. You're good at that. So I can imagine you'd be a good carving person carver.

[B]

Thank you. Well, I think I probably learned that from being at the prop house because they. They tell you on day one there, it's like, one bad injury and you'll be really good at your job after that. That's nice. Welcome to the team. And they said at some point, it's inevitable you will have a bad injury.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

They're like, just don't fear it. The second you get cocky, you'll never fear it.

[A]

It'll happen whether you fear it or not. Don't even worry.

[B]

Yeah. They said, just be ready for it. And then I did. I had a really bad knife.

[A]

Did you have to go to the er?

[B]

I mean, I. I probably should.

[A]

Or did you go to the er?

[B]

I didn't know. I probably should have. It's fine now, obviously.

[A]

I mean, that probably goes for most things. Yeah.

[B]

But everyone's got a bad. A bad injury. From my old apartment. Yeah. I remember watching. I remember watching someone have an exacto knife injury, and it was. Oh, my God, they had to go to VR. They had to go VR for sure.

[A]

Exacto knife is the thing. And especially at a prop house, when, you know, they're like. I know they say, like, oh, a dull blade is worse, but with an X acto knife, I feel like it's so close to your fingers that, like, that sharpness. Oh, no, no, no.

[B]

It's. I'm still. I mean, I. Obviously, I have more confidence using them, but I'm still aware, and they were right after that one injury. Become much fucking better at being aware of your surroundings because, you know, you never want that to happen again. Yeah. But anyway, I'll. Maybe I'll whip out the exacto knife and. And risk it all again to whittle you a duck or something.

[A]

I. Honestly, if you whittled me a mallard, I would be over the fucking moon. Thank you. Or a raven or something. Look, I want to show you the other thing I bought.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In my. In my big bidding war, I had bought two things, and they were a little too pricey for what I was hoping to spend, but, oh, well, too late. I really wanted them. Here's one. It's a. It's an advertising crate from the 1800s.

[B]

Let me see. Oh, that's lovely.

[A]

I know, right? And I picked it up, and it is a lot bigger than I thought. Like, it's like a full crate. Like, you can store, like, blankets in it and stuff.

[B]

Ooh, okay. But how do you clean something like that? Because in my mind, I'm like. I just feel like it would always smell old and not in a good way.

[A]

Yeah, I think it'll probably just be decorative for the most part. Oh, and here's the back. You're going to hate this part. Hold on.

[B]

This feels like a box you could put, like, all the Christmas presents in or something.

[A]

Something like that. Like something kind of more display. Display. Not, like, maybe not blankets.

[B]

But I do hate the Child's. You're right.

[A]

Yeah. The child on the side is very alarming. Okay, so what it is. It's like this big crate. It's an. And it has an advertising on the side called Snowboy Washing Powder. And of course, that is a creepy little. Like, he looks like a Renaissance cherub dressed as the pope. I don't know, but he looks very interesting. And I guess he's their mask, right? It's a. And it's a crate that opens up on, like, these hinges, and they have all the little wooden, like, pegs that they show that. How they interlocked back then instead of just. Never mind. It's a dovetail. Okay, whittler.

[B]

You sound like a whittler.

[A]

Okay, well, maybe. Maybe I'll just be your apprentice. Anyway, it says it's from the late 19th century, so that's pretty cool. And I like it a lot. And it's. It's big and cool, and I just liked Snowboy Washing Powder and thought it. And it looks. It looks pretty. It's, like, pretty sturdy. So I don't know what I'll use it for. Maybe just like, a trunk. Trunk in, like, the entryway.

[B]

Part of me feels like if it's already that haunted, you might as well throw all your other haunted in there. And now you've got to. Oh, yeah, true.

[A]

I could just store my haunted in there. Yeah, yeah. Trap them in a trunk. They'll love that.

[B]

Well, that would have been a perfect spot for all that hay and haunted. The arsonist doll. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. No, no. The arsonist doll. Yeah. So, anyway, fun fact. That is what. That is what I got at the estate sale this week. Thank you for checking in.

[B]

Well, I was. I was wondering about your. Because you. There was something backstage you were trying to do on ebay. I guess you didn't get that.

[A]

Oh, I did that, too. Sorry. I did get that, too. The thing for a certain friend of ours.

[B]

Am I losing my mind?

[A]

Oh, that one. The gnomes. I didn't look at the gnomes. I'm so sorry. There was something at the last screen room. I do this a lot. It was at the last screen room when Eva's sister Julia was backstage, and I was trying to win something for Eva, and I did win that, which I was not expecting, but I. Congratulations. Thank you so much. The guy said that to me, too. And I was like, well, it's just because I spent the most money, but thank you. I.

[B]

Next time I'm on an ebay kick, I'll fear For my life. Because apparently I'll only get haunted things or I don't know. I imagine I'll follow suit as well.

[A]

I know. I know better. If I were to get you something, it would be like either some, like some memorabilia that would matter to you that's not haunted, or just like a little something haunted where I'm like just on top of the real gifts.

[B]

And I know you wouldn't tell me what's haunted until I told you something happened. And then. Yeah, okay, I have a confession.

[A]

It would be a secret haunting.

[B]

You're sick.

[A]

It's like a Trojan horse. I'll put the haunted item inside a different item and be like, how's that teddy bear treating you?

[B]

Yeah. The way you would ask too often would tell me immediately that I should put it in the tongue.

[A]

He has it started smiling or frowning or talking.

[B]

Just wondering if you just went, has it begun? I'll be like, what do you mean?

[A]

Oh, that is my indication that no, it has not yet begun. That's okay. Moving on.

[B]

And you're drinking your rawberry or whatever it's called.

[A]

Yeah, Grawberry, I think, is what you tried to coin. Yeah.

[B]

You know, we've said it three times now, so I think we coined. That's what I think.

[A]

Coined. Coined tmtm. You know that feeling, em, when you buy somebody something that you don't think that they would spend money on themselves, but you're like, oh, here's just like I was thinking of you. Here's like a little tab, bit of.

[B]

Luxury, a spritz of the fancy, as I said.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, it's very nice to be able to give people things that, you know, they might walk past by at a window and go, oh, that's lovely. I wish I would get that. And then you get it for them.

[A]

It's the magic that Quince brings to us all. Because Quince lets you have that moment and to let you have it for yourself too. As an example, could be a nice sweater, a holiday sweater sweater. Well, guess what? They've got their iconic Mongolian cashmere sweater. Starting at 50, they have beautiful jewelry, 14k gold jewelry, Italian leather handbags. Everything is just so aesthetic and beautiful and like core wardrobe style. Last holiday I actually did that exact thing where I ended up buying Blaze this suede jacket from Quint. And it was significantly more affordable than kind of the high brand name ones. They show you a little graph on the Quinn's website, actually to compare this jacket, man, he wore it to our family photo shoot the other day. And I was like, like, oh, it felt really cool to be able to gift him that. And he's going to wear it every year.

[B]

Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every piece. Go to quince.com drink for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com drink to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com drink I'm having an LD, obviously. Also, it's going to be when this comes out. It's already December, so how. I assume you haven't begun your Christmas present debacle. You've only been ebaying things for yourself now.

[A]

Yes, well, I've been mostly doing that. But no, I've bought actually so many holiday gifts. I started about the week before Thanksgiving and then on Black Friday I go a little bit wild. Yeah, I basically, it's my new tradition where for the last couple of years we go to Thanksgiving in Connecticut. I hand off my child like she's being, you know, escorted away for summer. Yeah, it's great. And I give them, give her to the grandparents and Blaze and his siblings are all just like playing Nintendo, watching sports and like there's just huge amounts of snacks. Like it's like a sleepover dream when you were a kid, you know. And then I just sit in this one recliner with my laptop and I will like eat half a week sometimes at night and then I will just like Black Friday by my, buy my family's Christmas gifts all night while they watch football. It's really a, it's like a, it's a very cathartic and delightful cozy experience. I know it's, it's not very anti capitalist of me, but there are just a lot of things I've been needing to replace and gift and you know, that's the time to do it.

[B]

Well, I'm happy for you. I think. I already bought, I bought some, I already finished for some people, but not most people.

[A]

You know, I bought you something and it arrived and it was so big that I went, oh, no, oh no, Em's never going to allow, oh no, Em's never going to allow us. I thought it was a much smaller, more compact present and because of your new house, I thought, oh, it'll be small enough to just be. No, it's pretty darn big. So I'm gonna gift that to you.

[B]

You can send it to the storage unit right Exactly.

[A]

I was gonna say I'll gift it to you in the car at the storage unit. We can just roll it out the window.

[B]

You know, I' be lovely once I've got the studio finished.

[A]

I'm hoping I. I will say I'm hoping, speakeasy wise, Spook Easy wise, that this is something you will want in there, even though it's kind of bigger than I thought, so there's not much room in there in the spooky. I know, but I'm hoping maybe. And I don't want you to feel like you have to, but I'm curious if this will end up being something you'd like to add to your.

[B]

I think you know me well enough. I think it'll. It's a. I do too.

[A]

But I. I wonder if the pro. If the cons, if you know, of the size outweigh the pros of it. But my feelings won't be hurt because I really didn't think it was so big.

[B]

I do think the spookies is going to become a seasonal, like a rotating decor thing. So sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[A]

Maybe they have them underground, like preserved in the perfect temperature and stuff under UV clothes.

[B]

You get it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You get it? Yeah.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Because we have so many spooky things for the Spook Easy. And the Spook easy is the smallest room in the house, and it's a really small house. Oh, yeah. It's way too small to be an actual, like, bedroom. So I think it's going to become like a rotating.

[A]

So maybe it'll be. Maybe it'll be. But I don't. I don't expect anything. I just wanted to warn you, but I am very excited for you to see it because it's really silly and. Oh, folks, maybe this. This month we can do our holiday. Do you want to do a holiday stream? Oh, like our live stream of gifts. Remember we talked about doing that potentially?

[B]

Yeah, we can do that.

[A]

And then maybe by January we can do the poll and see what people preferred between. I know people seem to prefer Yappy Hour, but maybe we can see if there's a way to, like, continue the live streams. But yeah, I think doing a holiday one would be fun. If you're down, Em.

[B]

Yeah. We can just figure out what day it is and. And then we'll do it.

[A]

We'll let Patreon know anyway. Okay. So sorry for all the talking. Em, I think you have a story to tell me.

[B]

You think?

[A]

I think. I thought.

[B]

No. It is funny that we just spent literally, like the last two weeks together and we still can't stop. Yep.

[A]

And wow, it's. It's unbelievable. Sometimes I go into therapy and I was there like four days ago and I'm like, oh, this happened. And this happened. Did I tell you about this? And this? And I bought a property and I got a full half a sleeve size tattoo and I decided to start sewing on a sewing machine. And I bought one last night. And she's like, she makes me take that, the manic quiz all the time. And I'm like, you can't fool me.

[B]

I also wonder if I have that, but I also just attribute it to adhd. I think that's what it is, just impulsiveness.

[A]

I think I'm just impulsiveness.

[B]

Hyper fixation. Yeah, exactly. I think they blend very well. One of my best friends growing up is bipolar and I think the two of us really just vibed so well together because our. Her manic episodes and my like obsessive hyper fixations at three in the morning, they really go hand in hand. It was, it was a lovely friendship from the start. So anyway.

[A]

So you get what I mean, what I'm saying? Yeah, I get it. I mean, everybody probably already knows to this day.

[B]

To this day. We go harder than anyone. I love it every time we see each other. We do it gives us permission to just be a little out of control. Out of control?

[A]

Yeah. Anyway, just be a little naughty every now and then.

[B]

A little Christine. And that's exactly what I've always said. So very excited. When I, when I go home, maybe we'll be a little naughty. I don't know, maybe we paint a room. Last time I was, I was feeling a little naughty. My mom said, I really wish the basement was this color. And then in two days it was that color. I just couldn't.

[A]

I remember and I was like, you're going to die in those fumes and I'm going to go, well, died the way they loved just doing a project that was not even a twinkle in their eye 24 hours ago.

[B]

It's my favorite, especially when I go, we still haven't done Thanksgiving yet. But when I go to my aunts every year, I always force them to let me do a home project for them.

[A]

Oh, the dream. And so as me, as me, as the, as the host.

[B]

Oh, it's a dream for me too. I love sitting up until 3am with a purpose.

[A]

You and Lisa love to come in here and just do stuff. And everyone's like, doesn't that bother you? No. Come in and fix me and my house.

[B]

I always feel like I'm being offensive. Like I'm like coming and saying, let me fix your problem.

[A]

After Lisa found some of the most awkward cleaning out blazes in my stuff. And I was like. And she pretended she didn't see it. It was super awkward.

[B]

Super awkward. So awkward.

[A]

So cringey. Honestly, after that, nothing fazes me. Come on in. Fucking help me. Help me.

[B]

No, I last my favorite one was I made my aunt let. I made my aunt make me clean her garage, which hadn't been. They're a Navy family. They had moved to like six or seven locations since they had like gone through all their shit. And it was. Their garage was just their storage unit. And I went through every single item. It was beautiful. We found such great relics. Anyway, I love a project, so I'm excited to have a reason to do it.

[A]

Come over.

[B]

Okay, let me tell you a story. This is a quick one, so I don't feel bad that we talked so much today. This is. We just were in Charleston and where I'm. Where I was, I apparently looked a little tired.

[A]

And meanwhile, ironically, ironically, I slept till 5:45 or 5:35pm one day. So you did. I guess. I guess. Maybe you were tired in comparison to me. Maybe it was like you, wow, Christine's so asleep.

[B]

You de aged. Yeah.

[A]

Hey, I have some good news. Hear ye, hear ye. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. M Discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts and originals in all your favorite genres.

[B]

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[A]

And we would know, right?

[B]

Em, that's right, because you can listen to our books on Audible.

[A]

It's basically like a long podcast in book format.

[B]

It's literally we went from podcast to a book, which then became basically a podcast again. So yeah, full circle.

[A]

So yeah, you can check out 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment. I know I will be like an almost unbelievably star studded production of George Orwell's 1984, which both honors and reinvigorates the terrifying classic. It's one of the best original dramatizations we've ever heard.

[B]

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[A]

There's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com drink and discover all the year's best waiting for you.

[B]

But while I was there, I spent a couple extra days there after everyone else. I saw Wicked twice. We're not even going to get into it, but I like I had.

[A]

Today's a big.

[B]

It was. It was a big. I did a lot of things while I was there. And one of the things I did was I went on a few ghost tours. There was one guy who was very into this location called the Sword Gates House. And I was like, all right, fine, I'll do it. So this is the Sword Gates House in Charleston.

[A]

Twist my arm, why don't you?

[B]

He talked about it as if he wish he. He had more time to talk about it. And so.

[A]

Oh, that's a good sign.

[B]

That was a good sign. But also I said it's a short story. I couldn't really find much, so now I'm regretting not forcing him to talk about it longer. Well, maybe he's. Maybe I would have gotten more intel.

[A]

Maybe he's like you and he wished he had more. He had more to talk about. There just isn't more to talk about. Maybe he's like, I wish I had so many more stories.

[B]

I have a lot of energy to talk and nothing to say.

[A]

Nothing to say.

[B]

Well, so for those of you who are. Who live in Charleston, you will know Rainbow Row, which is like the row of like very colorful houses that. This is about a 10 minute walk from that. Okay, and so where do we start? 1803, the first home was built here for a separate family. And from the beginning this house has been U shaped, which is very fun. I love when it's got a curvature. Yeah, it was a three story. Oh, Christine, don't You know I like when you speak in other languages. Okay, sorry.

[A]

I should have warned you.

[B]

You shaped a three story house. Later, wings were added onto the home first. All sorts of rooms, ballrooms, etc. And eventually the Talvand family moved in and the guy's name was either Andre or Andrew. We don't really know. It's lost to time now, but a.

[A]

Lot of stories are still lost to time.

[B]

It just got kind of got sneezed away. Yeah, well, it's because they were. They were French to some degree anyway, so it might have been Andre or Andrew, but a lot of stories say Andrew. I don't know if it's just kind of been Americanized. And his wife, which is either. Again, the sources were very confusing. I wish I had this man right in front of me to double check things. At one point there was a Rose Tal van, and at one point there was an Anne Tal van. And it sounds like he was married to one of them. I don't know. I'm gonna go off of.

[A]

I feel like this always happens with these old timey paperwork. Like they're like related, but you're like, are they linked by blood, by marriage, by.

[B]

Is it an aunt? Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like it always gets kind of convoluted, especially because everyone had so many similar names back then, which again.

[B]

Maybe the stories are. I mean, yeah, I don't know. And I know that the Talvin family eventually was then inherited. So maybe it was like either Rose or Anne was married to Andrew and then the other one inherited it over time. But eventually they just start saying she and her and pronouning all over the place and don't use an actual name. So I don't know who they were talking about.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

But. So the main storyline seems to be Andrew and Anne were married. That seems to be the common thread. I'm going to go off majority rules at this point. For most of the history, this building has been a private residence. But today's story specifically is the 1820s to the 1840s. Okay, so 1820s, the Tal Vance began to run a boarding school here for teenage daughters of the upper class. So imagine Gossip Girl. But you live there, teen.

[A]

Oh, Lord have mercy.

[B]

The upper crest's finest Charleston Southern daughters.

[A]

But think about what a good TV show that would make. Like, kind of like Call the Midwife, but like the preppy boarding school of the 1820s. Oh, I would love that.

[B]

They don't deserve any more privilege. But also, I do want them filmed as a reality show.

[A]

Well, I mean, most reality shows do end up being privileged people on TV for us to gawk at, so.

[B]

Yeah, I know, but I'm saying I don't want to wish any more privilege and entitlement on these folks. But for entertainment.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I don't think it would be necessarily a privilege for them for this experience. I think we'd be all privileged to watch the nonsense unfold. I mean, imagine when Gertrude insults mods.

[B]

Knitting needles when one of them decides to show their ankles. Are you fucking kidding me? That's season finale show.

[A]

I was gonna say that can't happen till the way way End.

[B]

Yeah, well, so M. Talvant's Ladies School. M for, I'm assuming, Madame.

[A]

Oh my God. What if it was just M E M? That'd be M's Lady School. What's it called?

[B]

That's what I would call my reality show. M's Lady School. M Talvan's Ladies School. And it was considered one of the best finishing schools in the south. It stressed discipline and social training because of course, in the 1820s when you're a rich white girl, you're gonna just. All you're there for is to find an eligible bachelor and get married and have kids. But Mary rich, or else we don't love you, obviously. And also finishing schools. You did cotillion?

[A]

Yeah, I don't wanna talk about it.

[B]

Me either. Okay. So the school taught mainly arts like music and dance, because that's what was the most becoming of women, I assume. But later the school also began to incorporate learning science and math in there, which a lot of girls at the time weren't learning. But it was to give them to make them even higher on the upper echelons of like. Oh, well, they're well read compared to the others.

[A]

Yes, okay.

[B]

Worldly. Yes, they're very worldly. They know two plus two. That's more than the school. The school also hosted social events for other young adults to come in so they could all mingle. It was basically. Basically pretty much. And it was like a. Basically bring in the eligible suitors to look at our finest girls. And are any of them interested and could something come from this? So it was a bit. It was a big fancy 1820s gossip girl fest. That's all I can really say.

[A]

Did you watch Bridgerton?

[B]

No, but I literally almost said the words. Bridgerton.

[A]

Okay. It's sort of like when they all like line up and show display. Like debut themselves. Yeah, like a debutante ball. Yeah.

[B]

See that from. I would have been like, oh, like Playboy where they just line up the girls. See, just a grosser version.

[A]

Em's just giving so much privilege to all these reality stars.

[B]

Just saying. I was an 8 year old with an HBO subscription at one point and I've stumbled onto some weird shit, I'll tell you that.

[A]

Don't think anybody is judging you for your taste in reality, I promise.

[B]

No, no, no. It wasn't a reality show I stumbled upon. Oh, so. So Madame Talvand. I, I, I, I. It's French, so I'm sure it's like Tal. Tal Something I can't pronounce.

[A]

Tal.

[B]

Maybe Tal. Yeah, but I'm, I've been saying madam, Madame Baldon, she was known to be a strict headmistress of this place. Which I guess you have to be if your whole thing is like teaching discipline and.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If you're teaching people to be snooty, you probably have to be snooty yourself for sure. Some said that she was so strict she was actually tyrannical. Which that's also just like how a teenager would talk. They're like, oh my God, she's literally a dictator.

[A]

No, but like scary ladies like that think about Mrs. Trunchbull like they're real like the nuns at Catholic school. Like they will and they would like I mean in the 1820s, like you know, she was like beating them and stuff. Like there was not.

[B]

Oh, you're right. Okay. I did not mean to victim blame there.

[A]

No, no, I don't think you were at all. No, I don't think you were at all. But I, I, I do know what you mean. I feel like nowadays we'd be like oh my God, she's such a witch, like all doing all this and it's like, well at least she's not smacking you.

[B]

I guess that's true. I just know how dramatic I was as a teenager where I'd be like oh my God, he's basically a prison warden. Like I would have said something.

[A]

I mean tyrannical is an intense word, but yes, I, I just a thought.

[B]

But you could be onto something as well. Yeah. So who's to say we're not there? But she was known to be very strict and rarely would the girl zucked out. So she must have been onto something. Or maybe you were. You're on to something. And in 1828, there's a few years into the school, there was one 15 year old girl who was not interested in Madame Pal's bullshit. And her name was Maria Whey. And before moving into the boarding house she was homeschooled. But then she fell in love with a boy. And not just a boy, but a non rich boy. And not only a, probably not even a poor boy, just a non upper class boy. But he was from New York and so he was an outsider. He didn't understand their world.

[A]

No southern gentleman?

[B]

No southern gentleman, no. He's a newsy as far as I'm concerned.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He has a leather jacket or something.

[B]

In my mind old New Yorkers and English boys are the same to me. Where it's like oi, mister. I can't tell if that's old New York.

[A]

Or like, wait, who are you?

[B]

So anyway, she found herself in Oi Mista.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And her father obviously was not down with this, and he tried everything to get him away from her. This is a weird line. Apparently he also. Because I was looking this up and I was like, I can't tell if he's talking about himself. I'm just gonna read the sentence and then tell me what you think it means.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Because I had to do some digging on this one. He desperately wanted to get George. The boy's name is George the Newsy. He wanted to get George away from his daughter. And by. And was even went so far as to telling all of his friends to shun him and turn him away if George needed a place to stay. What that sound like to you?

[A]

Like, he's saying, like, who's friends?

[B]

George's friends.

[A]

George's friends. Yeah.

[B]

That's what I fucking thought, too. That makes sense. Like, go, like, go tell his friends to not let him in the house.

[A]

Oh, tell his own friends?

[B]

Yeah, that's like.

[A]

That's weird.

[B]

Like, why would they. I don't understand.

[A]

Is it like, they also have daughters and he's like, keep your daughters away from this boy. He's out for one of our daughters.

[B]

Oh, maybe. Or maybe, like, because it was a small town, maybe everyone knew everyone, and so he was just telling all the adults who had houses, like, don't let this guy in. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of weird. Wait, was it to turn them. What is it to turn him away or something?

[B]

To, like, just to. Yeah, just to keep him away from the area the dad went to.

[A]

Oh. Maybe he just tried to, like, chase him out of town and was like, if you see this guy, you tell him to get lost. Tell him that's what I am.

[B]

Maybe that's what it was supposed to be. But the line was like, don't let him in your house. And wouldn't his friends be like, I'm not gonna let a strange guy I don't know in the fucking house. Don't worry.

[A]

Maybe they would. Because maybe it's like, oh, Southern gentleman. Yeah, right.

[B]

Well, one thing I was thinking is maybe because he was from New York, maybe it was common then to, like, just have anybody take on an outsider. Like, just to, like, give them a place to stay or, like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know. I have no idea what it was about. But he would go to his own friends and say, if you see this guy, don't let him in your house. So that's let him out there.

[A]

You're right. It's a very weird way to say, like, tell him to scram. Like, yeah, I don't let him in your house.

[B]

Maybe he was already staying there when they were wondering if they liked him. And then when he decided, yeah, maybe.

[A]

There'S contacts were missing. Like, maybe the guy was, like, local friendly with the locals and was stopping by. And maybe he was the milkman, he's like, don't let him on your property.

[B]

Yeah, it had to be something like that because otherwise it makes no sense. But I guess all of the dad's friends listen and they're like, okay, we're not gonna let him in. But then it sounds like maybe that was happening because the next line is, after this happened, George started pitching a tent and camping outside of the house to prove his, like, devotion to Maria and that he desperately wanted to be with her. So maybe he was staying at other people's houses at some point. If he's now camping out.

[A]

Yeah, maybe he was just, like, bopping around, like, couch surfing. Yeah, so he was a chaise lounge. Surfing.

[B]

Stop it. Oh. Oh. You know, I love a day bed lounge. If I could just surf the day beds, we'd be in business.

[A]

A fainting couch. A fainting couch or two.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

They're in love. The dad's not into it. The dad told the whole town, don't let him in your house. We're trying to kick him out. George ends up camping out in their yard just to be like, okay, you kicked. You told everyone I couldn't stay at their places, but I'm still here.

[A]

I found a loophole.

[B]

Pining over your girl. Pining over your daughter. And so the dad was like, I can't get this guy away from you. Like, what do we do about this? Meanwhile, I'm sure Maria is just oohing and awing and she's just like, oh, my God, the perseverance and the persistence is just so hot.

[A]

Yeah. She's just walking past her curtains, like, a little bit slowly.

[B]

Oh, yeah, she's giving him a show. Giving him a show. And the dad is like, I cannot keep these two away from each other. I don't know what to do. So because she was originally homeschooled and she was always at the house, so now this guy was always in his yard. He was like, I don't know what to do. I have to get her out of here if I can't get him out of here. And so then she sent. She got sent to Madame Talbon's Ladies School.

[A]

Yes. Okay.

[B]

And so while she was there, she was taking her classes. She also was at all those bachelor bachelorette social functions. But she never gave up on her love for George, of course. So eventually, I'm assuming George was, like, left in the dark about where she went. And he was like, where'd you go?

[A]

I would think so. He probably also told all his friends. Remember when I said don't let him on in the house. Also, don't tell them.

[B]

Don't tell him where she went. Yeah.

[A]

The name of that dumb French boarding school, please.

[B]

Well, apparently he was easy to read because very quickly George figured it out and was like, I bet he sent her away to that really fucking bougie school down the street.

[A]

Yeah, right, right.

[B]

And because the. All the sources say he found her, which, like, now it's starting to sound like he absolutely is stalking her.

[A]

This is actually getting alarming. Like, I. I guess I. Oh, how old is he? Because she's 16. Is.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know his age. Which is also troubling.

[A]

A little muddy. Yeah.

[B]

Because I like to think they're Both like just 15 year olds in love.

[A]

Like lovebirds. Yeah.

[B]

I can tell you, when I was 15, I was. Who was I in love with? A 15? Her name was either Allie or Sydney. It was one of the two.

[A]

Fifteen.

[B]

No. Shout out to Ally. Shout out to Sydney. But I was in love with one of them at the time. And if you told me I couldn't be near Them, I would have camped out. I would have been like, are you kidding me? Like, it would have been the gayest thing the world had ever seen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So to a point, I understand where George is coming from.

[A]

Like, just those hormones are. Yeah. Bad, bad news.

[B]

But, yeah, now I. I don't know where the line is because I don't have enough context, but eventually he figures out where she is. He goes and finds her. She apparently seems to be into it, so I'm all for it currently.

[A]

I mean, she was waiting for him.

[B]

And he finds her and sends her a letter and says, on March 3rd, get ready, sneak out, and we're getting married.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

And so I know it's happening. So she sneaks out and I guess he'd already arranged transportation, which, like, love that he thought about the logistics of that.

[A]

What does that mean? Like, he got a horse out front.

[B]

He got a friend to bring a horse.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I see.

[B]

So kind of bare minimum. But at least the effort was there.

[A]

No, it's something.

[B]

He had a friend bring a horse and carriage, wait for her to sneak out, and they brought her to the church. They successfully eloped, but apparently they didn't think it all the way through. And, like, she should have just brought all of her that day and, like, just brought it all to the church.

[A]

School.

[B]

It's all at the school. So she has to go back to the school.

[A]

Girl, come on, you got to think ahead a little bit. I know you're like, 16. There's no way I get to.

[B]

I would have never thought that far.

[A]

Your frontal lobe is just screwed right now.

[B]

Literally. At 15, I was going to house parties, and the furthest ahead I was thinking was, I'm going to sleep in the jeans I'm wearing and I have a Nokia, so I don't need a phone charger.

[A]

Sleep in the jeans she's wearing. I'm hooked and I can't stop. Sorry, that's just my intrusive thought.

[B]

They wrote that about me. Isn't that weird?

[A]

Yeah, that is weird that they misgendered you. It's super fucked up.

[B]

Well, they didn't know then, so.

[A]

Oh, right, you didn't know then.

[B]

I didn't know then either. Yeah. So anyway, she did. Maybe she was wearing the jeans. She slept in them. She didn't think twice about anything else. Left everything else back at the house. And after they got married, I'm sure he was like, where's your shit? And she was like, ah, it's at school. And so. And so he went, now you have to go back there. So she snuck back into the school. There's one source had this whole, like, dramatic storyline of, like, she slipped in mud. And one of the teachers found her slipped in mud. And then they were like, get back inside, you crazy girl. Not knowing that she had just gotten married. So I don't know how true that is or if that was just, like, flowery. But so she gets back inside. The next morning, George comes to the school because now that he's married to her and thus she's his property, he can just.

[A]

He could collect her.

[B]

Yeah, he could just sign her out. And so he knocked on the door, of course, that strict, tyrannical Madame opens the door, and he goes, I'm here to collect Mrs. Morris.

[A]

Shut off. I mean, imagine the cliffhanger, like, when the door opens.

[B]

Fade to black, bitch. Absolutely.

[A]

Oh, man, this needs to be real.

[B]

So when the girls start giggling behind Madame, she realizes, holy shit, maybe there is a Mrs. Morris here. Because originally she was like, there's no Mrs. Morris. Get the fuck out of here.

[A]

Yeah, these are eligible bachelorettes?

[B]

Yes. I'm the only married one here. Shoe. Now fetch, puppy. Go.

[A]

Yes. Don't go to anybody of my friend's houses because they won't let you in.

[B]

It was, like, the best insult they had at the time.

[A]

It's pretty rude in the South, I imagine.

[B]

So anyway, she was like, there's no Mrs. Morris. Then all the girls behind her are giggling, and she's like, what do these fucking children know that I don't? So she goes, brb. Probably slams the door in his face and then goes, all the girls outside now line up in a row, like in Playboy. You see?

[A]

I get it. Nope.

[B]

And so she has them all line out on the lawn. She brings George in and introduces him to the entire lineup of girls and says, he is here for his wife. Is there a Mrs. Morris present among us?

[A]

Oh, my God. Imagine being that girl. And you're like, all the girls are.

[B]

About to scream, you know, someone. But they were all doing the. They were all doing the Christine Klaw. They were all like, oh, yes, yes.

[A]

Any minute now.

[B]

They were like, we're gonna talk about this.

[A]

She's gonna flip a gasket.

[B]

She might even pee her pantyhose.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

She might say a slur like. Like being to.

[A]

Oh, no, she better not. She might say, le Mer. Is that even right? I think it's just mad.

[B]

I was gonna say, like, yeah, that's good, too. Oh, La la. Yeah, so. Sacre bleu. Exactly. So she, she says, is there Mrs. Morris here that would like to out herself immediately to the class? And apparently Maria steps out. I don't know if she just said, I am. I'm Mrs. Morris. But one of the sources which I.

[A]

Love, the most flowery one.

[B]

Yeah, okay, like I'm gonna. And in the sassiest, bitchiest way ever. Yeah, apparently she curtsied.

[A]

Oh, now I love. That is a powerful woman.

[B]

She said, and what? And what now?

[A]

And what?

[B]

Tis me bitch. That's what she said.

[A]

And you better call me Mrs. Yeah.

[B]

And so apparently, as you said, you.

[A]

Know, I'm the bride. I'm the bride.

[B]

Apparently Madame did flip a gasket and she screamed at the staff for, like, letting a silly little girl trick them all and sneak out. Which, like, girl, you're part of that. Like, why are you yelling at them? You also got tricked. Yeah, sometime during this. Again, I don't based on the source either George grabbed her hand when Madame wasn't looking and like, grabbed Maria's hand and they just ran off together. They ran off the lawn and ran off the property and were never seen again. Or George legally owns her, so probably was just like, anyway, you have your moment. I'm gonna leave my wife. Right?

[A]

She's like, I've had enough excitement here for one day. Girls, back to your dormitories.

[B]

And you know, she did it like that. She went, she went. Now leave.

[A]

Scatter, scatter.

[B]

At haste at once.

[A]

Yes, with haste, please, children.

[B]

So apparently madam was worried that this would ruin her and the school's reputation because literally all she does all day is work with teenage girls. You know, they're writing long letters to mom and dad now going, guess what the gossip is.

[A]

Oh, imagine. And then you know that the dad who specifically sent her here to avoid.

[B]

This specific young man, this is how he finds out.

[A]

Oh, he's going to be so pissed.

[B]

I. I mean, truly, the one group of people you don't want to catch you at your most embarrassing moment is a horde of teenage girls that you had lined up around you.

[A]

Are you kidding me? Parents.

[B]

Oh, and their parents who give you money.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. This is bad news.

[B]

Troubling times at Madame Talon's ladies school.

[A]

Yeah, call her Mrs. Higby.

[B]

So somehow the word gets out. I can't imagine how. And she is panicked that it's going to ruin her, so she gets even more strict. She literally has, I guess she uses up all of the mommy and daddy's monies and she pays for a high, high, high super tall wall built around the entire property and allegedly even topped all of the walls with shards of broken glass so nobody could climb over.

[A]

Excuse me. And I let me guess, did she make like who had the poor staff who's already getting screamed out for like not catching this girl.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And now they're like having to glue glass to the top of this fucking wall. This is. This is nuts.

[B]

I imagine they were just breaking bottles up there and just letting the shards fall. Which means now the perimeter of the wall also isn't safe if you're. You got to always have your shoes on. Don't, don't get near the edge of the wall.

[A]

If you're a Higby School of Ladies student, you know, pupil. Sorry. You know better than to wear no shoes outside. Are you kidding me?

[B]

To show your toes.

[A]

Please, let's not be real.

[B]

So fun fact. The house is known as the Sword Gates house because of these wrought iron gates at the. At the entryway and they have these.

[A]

Sorry we had a minor emergency that I was of. Had to escape for. We're back. Poor Jack has to hear all of our. The inner ins and outs of the behind the scenes while we record. Eva's not here today so I needed a minute. I went and got my little nice cube. The thing that I. Oh by the way, I didn't just buy myself one. And after trauma I bought both of us 1. To be clear, I didn't just order myself one.

[B]

Not only did Christine. So I'll ask if you are listening backwards for some reason reason I'm obsessed with the Needo nice cube. And 24 hours after finally finding one because they were sold out all over my area. 24 hours after owning one, I broke it by accident. And then the next time I saw Christine she surprised me with a new one. And it wasn't even the nice cube, it was the nice berg. And it was twice as big. So twice the fun.

[A]

Yeah, Em looked at it like, what the hell?

[B]

I never even know that one existed.

[A]

I didn't know this was any different. But yeah, I, I felt it in the store and was like I must also own that. So. Well, the reason I bring it up is that halfway through that last bit I realized I kept like bringing it into the frame a little bit if you're watching on YouTube. So I wanted to make it clear that I'm. That's what, that's what's happening.

[B]

I would like you momentarily if you wanted to to, you know, I won't.

[A]

Do that on camera because you already did.

[B]

Publicly, you already did. Eat your words.

[A]

Oh, oh, just eat my words. That's fine as long as I'm not eating anything else. I did immediately upon purchasing this and pulling up at a red light, which may have been the most indiscreet, non discreet, I don't know the right word place to do this. I. I bit, I bit my. I bit my cube because Em said, you know those Dr. Dr. Scholl's gels M likes to buy and said, this is exactly it. This is what I'll do it for you. And I said, well, immediately I gotta try it. Really a delightful experience.

[B]

Yeah, I'm really a 10 out of 10.

[A]

Really top notch. I will say this one now is covered. Leona likes to throw it because it lands really hard and makes a lot of noise. So it is not clean right now. So I will not be biting it. And Blaze is gonna have a heart attack when he hears this.

[B]

But it's. I can't. I have yet to find a better experience for. What did I call it last time? The oral. You called it molar fixation.

[A]

Oh, yeah, the oral moral fixation, which made me laugh because I was like, oh, now we're bringing morality into this. Great. Okay. Because it is evil for sure. There's no good being done. But.

[B]

But can confirm. Best bite of my life.

[A]

It's a very satisfying feeling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know how when you're shopping for somebody and you're like, I want to get them something special that's like, valuable and they'll appreciate, but it's just hard to nail it because you've spent maybe your whole life giving them gifts, like maybe, say, a parent. Well, I've got just the thing if you're in this predicament like I was. Because an Aura digital picture frame is the perfect gift. Name number one by Wirecutter. Aura frames make it incredibly easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. And when you give an aura frame as a gift, you can personalize and preload it with a thoughtful message and photos using the Aura app, which I think is one of the coolest features of it. And it makes an ideal present for long distance loved ones. It's really special and they'll use it every day.

[B]

And it's easy to set up. It takes about two minutes to set up a frame using the Aura app and you get free unlimited storage. You can add unlimited photos and videos and invite as many people as you want to a frame. There Are absolutely no hidden fees or subscriptions either. So very much a custom experience with old frames. I've been collecting pictures of all of our trucks travels while we're on the road. So our aura frame currently has that. I also got an aura frame for my friend Deirdre and so she's got an aura frame that she's been putting family pictures on, which is lovely. I feel like all of my friends and family are eventually gonna have matching aura frames.

[A]

Yes. And then you can send them all photos of yourself. It's perfect.

[B]

Save on the perfect gift by visiting Oraframes.com to get 35 off Aura's bestselling Carver Matte frames by using promo code drink at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code Dr. Where were we?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. I think somebody was telling a story, but I can't remember who or why or why. What about.

[B]

Well, so she was worried that all the girls were gonna gossip and then they did and so she was like, well now my reputation's ruined. So she built a wall, covered it with glass. Oh. And then. And we actually were at a good stopping point so that that worked out. So fun fact. The house is called the Sword Gates House because there's this wrought iron gate up front that has I guess sword decoration on it or like looks like a sword in wrought iron. And some think that this was also installed by Madame Talon during this time while she was trying to like build this huge wall.

[A]

She's got like glass and swords at her disposal.

[B]

I mean I rot iron pre Civil war swords. Right.

[A]

Like I'm assuming that this is probably like some weird ass construction company that is able to do things like this, but I'm just picturing this woman being like now let's add glass last sharp. I mean she sounds like Mrs. Trunchbull. Like where is she getting all this?

[B]

She actually does really sound tyrannical. So I eat my words. Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Wow, wow.

[B]

Well, so some think that she's responsible for this wrought iron gate put up because she was already putting up the wall. But others say that this was installed a few years after the school closed, which is around 1850.

[A]

So have still been had that name.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, I see. Okay.

[B]

It's the gate. The story behind the gate gate having like the swords on it and now it's called Sword Gates House is definitely true. But how the the gate was installed or why it was installed and by who is or.

[A]

Got it. Okay. Okay.

[B]

So Some say it was her because I think it's just easy to shove that into the same story. But other people say that it was put in later by a new owner. And fun fact, these gates were originally intended for a police station, but they either decided not to use them at the police station or they had like a second set. Then they decided to use them on this house.

[A]

They had an extra set of police gates, I think, on them.

[B]

I think, like, it was like the blacksmith messed one up or something. Like, I. I think there was something where they were like, all right, what do we do?

[A]

The best story, like, we have the school. Remember when you said, like, oh, he's a prison guard? It's like, no, you literally are in the gate like glass.

[B]

You're actually now walled in. Gated. Yeah. And actually maybe she was a prison warden.

[A]

Match the police station, except he up one of the swords and it's a little bit wonky. So the police didn't want it. What a tale. This is really exciting.

[B]

Well, the other fun fact is that this was around 1850, and so they were made with pre Civil War iron, which is so rare to find because most of the iron around the area was melted into weapons for the war.

[A]

So I didn't know that.

[B]

It's quite a relic that. That there's pre Civil War iron just sitting somewhere and nobody thought to melt it down.

[A]

I mean, that that metal, what do you call it? Blacksmith is lucky that that Mrs. Higby Bottom wanted to buy it because, like, the police station said, no. Now he it up and has to make a whole new one out of this fancy pre Civil War iron. Like, man, he's lucky she wanted that kind of knockoff.

[B]

I know, the wonky gate. Yeah, that's why they should call it the Wonky Gates House.

[A]

I think it's a. It's wonky gate. Is the scandal also.

[B]

Well, today as for. Because this was on a ghost tour. So the main ghost here, obviously is Madame Tal Vaughn. They say that she still roams the building making sure that nobody else is acting out under her watch because she. She's still paranoid after, like, almost 200 years.

[A]

Do you mind? Know what reminds me of that one place that we may or may not cover in a live show, who still is around, and it's like, fucking go away. Like, what do you want? Like, you're not the boss anymore. You know, it's just so weird how some of them need to, like, keep that.

[B]

It's like, are you just. Are you that married to the property or Like. Like, could you leave if you wanted to? Or do you care too?

[A]

Fucking yeah. Is it like you're just too invested in, like, making other people miserable? I don't know.

[B]

It's like this is all you had.

[A]

Yeah. You just want that yardstick to smack people's knuckles with, you know, like, hate.

[B]

To break it to you, but that unfinished business is finished, actually.

[A]

Yeah. Right. It's been finished a long time ago.

[B]

So people see her apparition doing bed checks, like, walking down the halls and going into each room. Apparently she walks through the halls, vanishes moments later. People have seen doorknobs turning on their own, and then when the door opens, no one's there, which means people are also seeing the doors opening and closing.

[A]

I just had a thought. I'm so sorry. I just had a thought about the bed check thing. You know, sometimes when you're asleep or like, people tell stories of being asleep and then like, they wake up and there's like a woman or someone in the doorway. What if it's like a parent checking on their kid?

[B]

Like, I hope so. Yeah, I.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, I feel like we're always like, oh, there's this ominous, like, just figure standing there, a woman standing over me while I slept. And it's like, what if they're just doing the bed check on their kid back then? Like to just check if they're asleep, you know what I mean?

[B]

That's when you move the bed and see if they go to the same location.

[A]

Oh, good point.

[B]

Like, is it a blueprint theory situation or are they following you wherever they want?

[A]

Excellent point, excellent point. Yeah. Anyway, just a thought, because I'm like, sometimes people talk about Victorian ladies appearing at their bedside or at the foot of the bed. I'm like, why? Maybe that's why. Maybe they're like, just checking.

[B]

That makes sense. But then, and then that feels lovely until you realize that someone like her who's doing the bed check, and it's like, oh, it's still ominous.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Just don't move into an old boarding school because probably it's not going to be as nice of a bed check ghost.

[B]

No, instead, move into an old boarding house. Right, Christine?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, good point. Let me rethink that. I'll get back to you.

[B]

So people again see her apparition. They see swirling mists on the property. People hear things moving on their own. They hear heavy sighs, heavy footsteps. And they have seen her standing on the balcony gazing out at the garden where she's probably watching to make sure no one's sneaking out at night.

[A]

Yeah, she's watching her glass shimmer behind the rose bushes. Just the pointed glass above the wall perimeter, which.

[B]

Imagine like being a kid just living there and hanging out in the yard at night, like, and all of a sudden you just see someone staring at you. And I feel like, yeah, she was.

[A]

Probably always watching and wanted you to feel like she was always watching. You know, she's probably one of those.

[B]

I imagine as you get older, the feeling kind of goes away. But when you're younger, like, it's such an. A dark presence because they feel like they just keep taboo on you.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, that is what they're doing. Like, they're only looking at you with critical eye.

[B]

Like, imagine. Imagine like being a ghost who is that prim and proper from that time period. And now there's like a teenage girl living there who like, wears like shorts.

[A]

Literally shorts.

[B]

Or like sneaks her boyfriend in and they're like hooking up. And like, you just are watching the. The exact opposite of what you trained teenage girls to be like.

[A]

That's what I'm saying is like, you know, she would get her little yellow yardstick out and try to smack them, you know, with her. But. Oh, yeah, but then I'm like, girl, give it a rest. Like, go be at peace. You're stressed out. Just, you're. You're just stressed out.

[B]

You're causing the problem. You're causing your own problem.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you're your own problem.

[B]

Well, some people have seen a second ghost here who's a man walking through the dining room and they don't know if that's maybe her father or George. So still pissing her off. Still. Because he got teeing her right o.

[A]

He's. He's really t in a row. Yeah, Especially because he got like led in, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. So in 17. Nope. In 1970, it was added to the national register of historic places. From the 50s to the 90s, it was a bread and beck. Bread. No. My God, I can never do it. Bed and breakfast called the Sword Gate Inn and it was on one of the wings of the house.

[A]

Best business ideas on this show, by the way.

[B]

I. I love bread and breakfast. I don't know what breakfast is, but I love the bread part.

[A]

Yeah, we don't care about the second part, but the bread.

[B]

Bread and bread. Let's go.

[A]

Bread is a good start.

[B]

Bread and bread.

[A]

Bread and breakfast.

[B]

When I'm getting Breakfast. I really do also just want types of bread.

[A]

So breakfast without any bread. That's not going to happen. Did you hear that? It's not going to happen, okay?

[B]

And it's not because I wake up at 11, okay?

[A]

It has nothing to do with that.

[B]

So the building today is 17,000 square feet. Over 17,000 square feet. Nine bedrooms, 14 bathrooms, eight fireplaces and quote, a drawing room, a study, a ballroom, a library, two dining rooms, a commercial kitchen, a fitness room, a gift wrapping room, which is how you know you're rich, a wine cellar, quarters for house staff, and much more, which yet I have to mention the gift wrapping room.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

On TikTok, I follow a lot of like home interior design.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

There's nothing I want more in my life than a gift wrapping room.

[A]

I would literally break every historical rule and attach like an addendum to the top of my house. That's like wobbly and not up to code just to have a gift wrap room like that. It's so extra but like so satisfying when people have one. I, I follow those same people on Tick Tock and I watch the whole thing.

[B]

I'm obsessed. I'm also obviously obsessed. I don't know what like if there's a name for it yet, but that door from the garage inside, so you can just leave your groceries by the little door and pull it right into your walk in pantry. It is fucking kidding me.

[A]

Game changer.

[B]

Game. Quick, quick, quick little cue. Are you fucking kidding me?

[A]

Are hey. Quick little a. No, I'm not. It's hard to believe, but I'm absolutely not.

[B]

There's nothing that gets me riled like a gift wrapper.

[A]

Okay? I watch all the videos because I know that like they're I guess, somewhat controversial and people always comment really nasty things, but I always watch them through when it's like my new house, like my new build things I meant things I was sure to include and it's like all the weird extras where you're like, okay, that's actually kind of genius.

[B]

Give it to me now. What are you talking about?

[A]

Like, that aren't an extra, like huge monetary value, but it's like just smart. Like you know when they have like certain drawers that pull out vertically instead of for lids? You know, just dumb shit like that where you're like, wait a minute. That's fucking genius.

[B]

I love.

[A]

Listen. A gift wrap room. Oh my God.

[B]

Oh. Do you know what is about to rock your absolute fucking dome?

[A]

You tell me.

[B]

There is this man. He is obviously someone's Father. He is a. Like a. Like just a man in his 40s.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But he is absolutely a little too knowledgeable about historical antique furniture. His name is Joe Himalayan.

[A]

Oh, this is all I want in my life. Hold on. I'm his. You know what you're doing.

[B]

He would be best friends with your stepfather. I am obsessed with Joe Himalay. I have written on his tiktoks. I have said, the world is not ready for my obsession with Joe Himily. And then Joe himily replied, thank you. It's. Here's the thing. He. Apparently there is a Hoosier antique cabinet museum in something Indiana, because it's Hoosier and he runs it or is like the. He is somehow the historian there in some way. Or he just has a fucking membership and just films everything there. I don't know what his deal is, but he loves to talk about Hoosier antique cabinetry and the things that he finds or the things that Hoosier once did on these pieces of furniture. Is so smart. And I'm like, why don't any of these things exist anymore? Like, so the. On the legs. On the legs of the, like the kitchen counters. Because back then they all had, like, legs. They weren't installed into the floor. It was like they all had, like, wooden legs.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

And each of the legs would have, like, little cups you would put gasoline or some sort of like, chemical in. So that way it would be ant traps. Like, so they couldn't climb up the legs and gets all your food. And like. And he pulls out all these drawers and he talks. He loves the bread boxes that have perforated air holes and he loves those. But listening to this man talk about who's your anti cabinetry. Okay. All I want to do is go to this museum.

[A]

Okay. I'm so excited about this because also I'm going to trade you my. One of my favorites, which is a Facebook group where people post stuff in their house that they don't understand what it's for.

[B]

Like, I'm already a part of it, girl.

[A]

Don't horse. You are. I should have known. It's ridiculous of me the way that.

[B]

Nobody knows what the old ice mill chest in their little, like the little shelf. Their little ice box shelf.

[A]

Hilarious.

[B]

Which one do you follow? Which one do you follow?

[A]

Let me check. I was on there today and somebody posted a picture of these holes in the ground, like almost like peepholes to the basement. And apparently it's to let light in back in the Victorian times, because there was no light for the servant class who had to work in the basement. And we might as well give them some air holes so they get some sunlight. I was like, man, it's just fascinating.

[B]

I'm on a. I don't have the page in front of me, but I don't follow a Facebook group. I follow the Reddit version of that. Oh.

[A]

I feel like I've turned my Facebook into Reddit, which I know is not ideal. I should have done it the other way around, but too late.

[B]

It's a delight. But I need you to go find Joe Himily. You will love him.

[A]

Oh, I already got him. Don't worry. I already followed him on Instagram. I mean, obviously, the moment you said it, I was like, well, I guess we're friends. Friends with him now. I will say my stepdad probably will not will want to talk more about trains. Yeah. Well, I think I would be more intrigued by what he had to say. My stepdad would probably just try to tell him, like, what kind of stain to buy for the wood. Like, I think they have in similar interests, but they're kind of pat ships in the night. Like, they're just a little.

[B]

I think they could bump into each other at a convention and make small talk.

[A]

No doubt. Oh, no doubt. And it would be well past bedtime that we finally got home. Yes.

[B]

I don't. I don't know how we got here, but that was the end of the Sword Gates house. By the way, the last fun fact I had is that it was once owned by President Lincoln's granddaughter. The end.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And if you wanted to see pictures of this place, if you wanted to see pictures of this place, Business Insider once took pictures because it was on the market. It was at one point, like, on the market for like, $23 million. And it was most recently sold, I think, for 10. And it's AMUS Museum now.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But there's pictures on Business Insider if you want to see what it looks like on the inside.

[A]

I'm gonna look that up. Scroll past my other groups. Crow lovers.

[B]

You just scrolling past eight of those.

[A]

I'm just await so many of them. Somebody's gonna tell me about their baby. Let's see. Scroll past that. Faux show, historic Victorian photographs, death stairs. That's a whole group I'm in where people post, like, stairs that look like they'll kill you because they're, like, so narrow or steep or whatever.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Death stairs.

[A]

Yeah, Death stairs. That's a good one. But A I R S. Let's See, Painting of the day. Okay. I. I thought it would show up right away because I was looking at it yesterday, but I think they're mixing not so much on my feed today, but they. There are some really. I feel like if you just join any of the. Just talking to the listeners, because Em and I are clearly on the same page, but in any of, like, the old house. They're like, my old house. Or, like, picks of old houses or things like that. You'll find some of those posts where people say, like, what is this strange thing coming from the ceiling? And they have, like, the most crazy reasons where you're like, wow, they were geniuses back then.

[B]

I mean, it's. There's some. Some moments where I just go, how? In my mind, it's, like, so archaic. Like, how are things so archaic and technologically advanced at the same time?

[A]

Yes. Yes. It's like sometimes I feel that way, too, about things like flossing, where I'm like, really? It's just string still. We're just doing, like. I know there are, like, those expensive, clunky water, whatever the. That I do also own, but it's like, we're still just string, baby. I don't know. The floss industry is on to something or they're.

[B]

They know a good thing when they see it. They don't. They don't touch. They don't touch. Success.

[A]

Oh, gosh. Okay, here's Reconstructed Mummies. I'm in a lot of groups. I mean, so are you, unfortunately. Oh, Gravestones of New England. That's a good Facebook group. Also, sorry. Now I feel like I just. Oh, maybe in the after hour, in the yappy hour, we do, like, a little, like, our favorite Facebook group. Like, Reddit subreddits. Yeah. You wouldn't do that.

[B]

Yes. I also, by the way, just found out that Joe himily works in D.C. so now I have to go on Facebook and see if we have mutual friends.

[A]

If you do tell, tell Tim, because I'm sure they're going to be himalay. Spelled H, I, M, A, L, I. By the way, folks, if you're. If you're Googling, I had to figure that out.

[B]

We do not have mutual friends. I first. But he. I mean, this is the happiest man you'll ever see in your life. Look at him.

[A]

O. I'm on it already. I'm on his.

[B]

Look at him. That is, like. That is a happy man.

[A]

Yeah. He looks like he likes to. To fish. He likes to dance. Water.

[B]

He loves the Hoosier. Cabinet, I'll tell you that.

[A]

Hang on, hang on.

[B]

That's a good man.

[A]

Hey, you open that up. M. Zoom out a little bit. Look at. Look at that left hand of his. What's he doing there?

[B]

Is he holding wine? He's holding Glass of wine.

[A]

Glass of wine. Guess what it is half drunk. So he is having a time of his life.

[B]

I got to tell you, Joe, himily is chef's kiss.

[A]

I. It looks like he's just. What's up?

[B]

You know, I hope he. I hope everyone goes and follows him, and then he goes, what happened? What? How.

[A]

I'll be. I'll be honest. I don't even know who the hell this guy is, but I'm just really invested now. I just love that he went to Boston University. Hey, no wonder I have a new.

[B]

Thing to comment on. His tick tock icebreaker.

[A]

Hey, ice breakers will include me since I found it so that I don't have to come up with my own icebreaker.

[B]

Okay, I'll make it awkward.

[A]

I want to be the third wheel. Include me. Say, oh, yeah, this one, too. She went there too, and she.

[B]

She likes what she sees. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So sorry. Back to this. Just loving this guy's energy. Really, really good. So this is a story that I have for you today, and it is one I had never heard of, and that always intrigues me because I feel like lately I've been doing a lot of that. I've been wanting to do this since the day we started the podcast, Blah, blah. That is not one of these stories. So, okay, this is the murder of Eric Pterack in Los Angeles. Okay. Now, a lot of these places in the story we can probably imagine pretty well because it takes place in West Hollywood.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah. So that is somewhere we have experience. Eric Pultrack was born in LA in 1970, where he was raised alongside his older brother Barry. And from a young age, Eric was a very kind and creative child. He was very much a people person. And his older brother described him as the Polterack family. Family's darling. And I hope. I hope it was said nicely from the sibling, not just like, really, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What's the word where you have.

[B]

Like, bullying?

[A]

No, like, oh, resentment. Sorry.

[B]

Oh. Oh.

[A]

Not like, full of resentment. Like, he's the darling child, you know? I hope. I hope it was said in love. We can only hope so. He made friends with everyone he met. He was a very curious person, and he liked to kind of like you. M. Actually, it reminds me a lot of you because he liked to go kind of outside his own field of knowledge and like look at other people's interests. Which I feel like is a very you thing.

[B]

Curious fellow.

[A]

Yeah. But also just like open minded to other people's interest. Not just about what you care about, but just kind of like intrigued about what other people are interested in.

[B]

I know. Talk. Ask Joe Hemley. I know all about who's your cabinets now. Because I gave him five minutes of my time. See?

[A]

And you appreciate that, you know, And I feel like that's the kind of guy this was. It reminds me of you a lot. One of his best friends described him as M. Schult. Oh, wait, no.

[B]

Oh, was that Joe himily his best friend or. No.

[A]

Ouch. One of his best friends described him as a person who completely accepted everyone just as they are. It's just like he had friend. It's like, it really is like you. I'm sorry I have to keep saying that, but it's like he had.

[B]

Complimenting me.

[A]

He. No, he had friends. Friends that were like from so many different areas and backgrounds that like walks of life. Yeah. And they'd get in the same room and it was like, whoa, what a. What a crowd.

[B]

You know, everyone's from a different era. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And he like gives everybody a kind of a pass in to like be his friend, which I think is really cool. So anyway, he was an entrepreneur as well, and he had a creative edge. And in early adulthood he had had great success in insurance sales and a finance manager. So he was able to basically have the dream where he like made a ton of money young and then was able to pursue like whatever he wanted. Side hobbies. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Right? So he began as he got into like his late 20s, early 30s. He began to explore fashion and jewelry sales. And then he was like, why don't I just start making it myself? Shelf. Okay, I know. So he started making accessories and he created a business called Roleplay Fashion.

[B]

Oh my.

[A]

Which sold lingerie, shoes and costume jewelry. And I love their slogan, Roleplay Fashion slogan was who do you want to be tonight? Oh, I know, right? Isn't that saucy?

[B]

Very saucy, yes.

[A]

According to the business's mission, quote, our goal is to increase, sell self esteem, romance and love in the world. Life is tough enough with work traffic. First of all, love traffic being second on the list for family. That's the most LA thing I ever heard. Life is tough enough with work traffic, family, friends, and all the other little things that require our attention. So we believe that time away from all of that stuff should be held dear and enhanced by roleplay, sexy lingerie, toys, and anything else that increases desire. We want you to feel good, look good, feel sexy, and have fun.

[B]

Oh, okay. That's a nice mission statement.

[A]

I think so. So he seemed to really live out this mission statement. He created a home for himself in West Hollywood among very, you know, eclectic people and people who were also very open minded. His brand became pretty popular really fast. Like, it kind of took off, even though it was just kind of a side hustle castle. It was actually really popular among the rave, BDSM and kink communities. And he often sold clothes and jewelry at what had. Has been described as an S M club. But, like, that was mostly in the media. So when they say, like, it's a sex club, we don't.

[B]

Sinners with wicked Satan, devil worshippers.

[A]

So, you know, like, the. The news was going to use words that were, you know, maybe that can't necessarily be trusted to mean, like, the more nuanced version of what it is. So I. I don't. I don't quite know. We don't know. But it was described in the newspaper as an S and M club. So he also made apparel and accessories for furries. Because, yeah, as I was watching this on, I think, Oxygen, I was watching some coverage on it, and they kept showing photos of him with, like, a tail, you know, with, like, the. The accessories. But they didn't mention. They mentioned only the, like, BDSM stuff. And I was like, I'm getting mixed messages here. Like, this guy's dressed as a fox in this photo, and then they're saying, like, he's sold to, like, BDSM sex clubs, and he's going like this with, like, a peace sign, and he's wearing, like, a fox. And I'm like, I don't understand what.

[B]

Connection I'm supposed to be making is just sex positive.

[A]

I think she's sex positive. Exactly. And I think people like to just interchangeably be like, look at all this freaky shit. You know, let's all just. You understand? And so I was a little bit unclear on why on earth they did it that way, but it's okay.

[B]

Can I tell you a fun fact about. Well, not really a fun fact. A personal anecdote about furries.

[A]

Yes. I was just talking to Blaze about the time you and I covered the. Or you. I guess you covered in the intro, the program at Anthrocon.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that was a good one.

[A]

Blaze was just in Pittsburgh. And he said it was going on while he was there.

[B]

Oh, fun.

[A]

And he was like, oh, my gosh. The city was like, bus it.

[B]

I. You know, I don't identify with the furry community at all, but I do identify with their program schedule. It was amazing. Oh, man.

[A]

I still think about some of the great schedule. Audit some of those classes.

[B]

I would have gone to Anthrocon just to see what the hell that was all about.

[A]

Well, and think about it. I could go to this guy Eric and be like, hey, I'm going to my first anthrocon. What should I. Yeah, what can you help me with?

[B]

I wanted to go to the one called like, I ate too much pasta. Something like that.

[A]

That one was so good. That one was something delicious. I think that one was the most memorable, for sure. Yeah.

[B]

And then there was, like, the. The one for parents, and it's like, so your kid dragged you to Anthrocon.

[A]

So clever. So self aware. I love it.

[B]

No, my. One of my siblings is in the furry community, and it was apparently quite a dinner table conversation where my mom was texting me and asking what her fursona is.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Which is your.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the. My sibling made all of the family get together and take a furry quiz together.

[A]

I think we did this in a yappy hour. I think you had.

[B]

I think we did. I think we did.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Anyway, anytime I hear furries, I just think of my mom being like, I can't decide what animal I am.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I.

[A]

When we talked about that, we have. I want to go back and find that video. It's somewhere on Patreon, but there's a video of us and you reading your mom's, like, little bio and saying what she got got and then saying, like, what she wanted to get. Man, it was really funny. And then I took the quiz, too. I got something like an iguana. I don't remember.

[B]

Yeah, I got something weird.

[A]

It was strange, but. Yeah. So that's on Patreon.

[B]

Anyway, I hear furries. I think of my mom. You know? You know how it goes.

[A]

All right, Eva, write that down for M's next therapy appointment. Okay. So, la la, la. He didn't seem to make full, like, fur suits, but he did make apparel and accessories for furniture stories. And he really, really thrived in these subcultures. It was his business, his passion. It's where he found friendship, and it's where he found love. Oh, he did a lot of business out of his home in Beverly Grove. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar? When they were describing it, they were like, oh, an up an upscale shopping center by, you know, surrounded by the buses of Hollywood and glitz and glamour. I'm like, okay, the Groves is. I mean, yeah, it's nice, but I don't know, like, calm down, calm down.

[B]

It's like Tinseltown. It's like, all right.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, I don't know, I stubbed my toe there one time. It wasn't that great. Okay, so let's see. He had a home in Beverly Grove. And remember, he had made good money, right, like in his early career. So he had been able to purchase a house there, which, you know, the housing prices in, like, Beverly Grove are crazy. Hi.

[B]

So good for him.

[A]

Yeah, so good for him. Okay, so he did a lot of business out of that particular home in Beverly Grove. And this was a home that he also shared with his daughter. Now he had an ex wife named Nikki, and the two of them had had a daughter before they split up. And he and his daughter were really, really close. His friends and his brother Barry said that Eric loved being a father. He was dependable, he was doting. He loved to spend time with his daughter and they had a lot of shared interests, which is kind of cute because, you know, he had such eclectic interests. I like the idea that she, as even a small kid had, like, he was encouraging of that, you know.

[B]

Well, I'm also, I feel like it's probably. I don't, I don't know what stereotypes of furries are, but I would imagine one of the good ones is that, like, you're open to other people having, like some wonky interest too, like, or like off the beaten path interests, you know?

[A]

Yes, yes, exactly. Like, not mainstream necessarily.

[B]

I would argue that having a furry as a parent is probably really good for your mental health because they're going to be supportive of a lot.

[A]

Absolutely. No, I totally agree. And it sounds like that's exactly why they were so close, which is really cool. His house there especially being so central in la, became a social hub where people would gather to dress up and have fun and people could basically go into his home and just be whoever they wanted, which is pretty great. Great. It was difficult to imagine all of this kind of sanctity, his, his beautiful setup, his beautiful social circle, his beautiful home being violated. But unfortunately, in the fall of 2011, Eric had a life changing event when he experienced a violent home invasion.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Which I know is like your biggest fear.

[B]

Totally. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So two men Knocked on his door and claimed they were there to serve Eric legal paperwork, possibly to do with some unknown lawsuit. Eric's neighborhood was friendly and social, and he knew most of his neighbors, and he felt pretty safe there. So he let them in once inside. Turns out the paperwork, of course, was phony. And one of them pulled a gun and demanded money. Eric said he didn't have any, so the man struck Eric over the head, basically pistol whipped him. And then the duo tied him up with an extension cord and ransacked his house. So they left with electronics and cash, and Eric eventually managed to free himself from the cord to call 911. The assailants left behind these supposed legal documents covered in their fingerprints.

[B]

Dummies.

[A]

Ultimately, the police matched the prince to one man who was on probation for a prior felony conviction. And so they, like, immediately arrested him and charged him for the robbery and assaulted. But Eric was still reeling. Even though this guy's in prison, I.

[B]

Mean, the trauma is very. I can't imagine.

[A]

No, me neither.

[B]

And also constantly wondering, like, do they have friends? Are the friends gonna come here now, like, to get revenge or.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It just feels like an acute fear that, like, you didn't have before. And now it's just like, all you think about, like, I would, like, over overcome it, overcoming everything else. So he could not get himself to settle back into that sense of security, he installed a security system. I mean, that would. My first move. With large, visible cameras mounted around the house to discourage people from attacking again. Barry, his older brother, said in an interview that he believed the men targeted Eric because of his business, which they believed sold real jewelry, not costume jewelry. So they think, like, oh, he. They saw that he sells jewelry, and they thought that he had, like, gemstones in his house and lots of cats. Gosh.

[B]

Which is, like, what a stretch to think that, like, oh, this. Even if he. Even if they did sell the finest diamonds, why would there just be rubies sitting around in your house?

[A]

Like, I'm sure they at least thought, like, oh, there's a safe with, like, something money or. Yeah, yeah, Jewelry. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah, I agree. It's kind of a.

[B]

It's. Sorry, I was gonna say it's like the last episode we did where we were, like, like when. When he found out that he killed that girl for, like, only like, $12,000 or something.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like, how many diamonds are worth a home invasion? Like, why?

[A]

For real?

[B]

Like, maybe something in the safe. That's why you would Break into someone's whole house and put them at gun.

[A]

Without even doing enough research to realize, like, it's not even jewelry, it's just like costume accessories for furries. Like, it's a harmless, like, not high yield, you know, situation. Not, not at least not diamond jewelry level. So months passed and Eric sort of slowly started to get more comfortable being back in the world, in his business, his social spheres. And a year passed and he went out with his friends to celebrate the biggest holiday of the year in the role play and costume scene. Arbor Day. No, I'm kidding.

[B]

Halloween.

[A]

And of course, as you probably know, Halloween in West Hollywood is like, oh, you don't even. Halloween on steroids. It's.

[B]

You want to go control, but you don't. The traffic is. One year I decided to try to go to WeHo for Halloween and to get in, I mean, forget parking, like, but we took an Uber and we were sitting in traffic for like 90 minutes.

[A]

When Alexander and I did our LA show. I read reviews of, I read reviews of that event and all people complained about was the, was the parking and the, the Uber. But I did go once. I did Alexis and I went. We were dressed as Buzz Lightyear and Woody.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And we had a great time, but we basically did it and said, cool, check that off the list. Never again.

[B]

Yeah, it's just.

[A]

Just really wild. Like, like really strangers and people are handing out drugs. I mean, it's just. It is.

[B]

I don't know if we like stated this too, but in case you don't live in LA, WeHo is like, known as the, the gay hood.

[A]

Like, it's.

[B]

So that's another reason why Halloween is so big there. It's just the land of queers. And so.

[A]

So people like go all out. All out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And all the bars have, like, you know, are open and everybody's kind of just milling about. They close the streets. It's. It's chaos is what it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So anyway, this is where he lived and so he was, he was, or he was living in Beverly Grove, but he decided to go out for Halloween. This was about a year later with his friends in West Hollywood. And of course it was going to be a wild time. And they, they had apparently a really great time. He dressed as a 20s mobster, if you were curious about that.

[B]

Oi, mister.

[A]

Yeah, same thing. Sound just like Al Capone, I think. So. You know when they say, like, oh, we found this, this mummified person and we're going to like, use their 3D print their vocal cords to see what they sounded like. I feel like that's what they're going to do for the Sounds like a little like, why ought to scrappy do situation.

[B]

Just sounds like he should be in Sweeney Todd.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like when they talk about, like, celebrities that like, hid how short they were for. For decades, you know, it's like it's a secret. Even though he's this tough guy, he sounds like a little pipsqueak anyway. Okay. I'm so sorry. So they're out on the town. He's dressed as Al Capone, I tell you. And they're out, I'm assuming, taking shots and getting sweaty and making out with people.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's probably a wild time.

[B]

Having a good time.

[A]

Yeah. Apparently he had a really, really good time. And then it was such a good time that he actually invited people back to his house afterward to, like, continue the party. So around 2am they're, they're finally like, starting to wind down, and he walks everybody out to their cars and decides to head back in for the night. There was nothing really remarkable about that evening. It was just a very fun and enjoyable night. But the next day, something seemed off to his friend and business partner, who had called him several times that morning with no response. So she finally drove to his house, walked up to the front door, and found Eric, in her words, cold and dead and covered in blood.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So she made a frantic 911 call. Responding officers found Eric exactly as she had said. And at this point, he was only 42 years old.

[B]

That's wild. And I also, my. What I was going to say earlier when you said, oh, he invited a bunch of people back, my first thought was, oh, he'll really feel safe that night.

[A]

Because I think that's why. Yes.

[B]

At least in like, the power of numbers.

[A]

Yes. I had that exact same thought where, like, you have people around and you feel so much more secure. Yeah. So it. It was very traumatic. It was immediately obvious to investigators that he had been shot in the back of the head at close range by a high powered weapon. And the attack would not have ever been survivable. So it was just quick and fast, at least.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Further analysis of Eric and the scene revealed a second slight graze wound on his face. And at least two shots had been fired, but only one was actually fatal. So the killer collected the bullet casings, but they didn't take anything from Eric or his home. So this seemed personal and premeditated. In other words, Eric was dead for at least 10 hours before he was discovered. Which makes you so sad to think about, like, walking your dog past that night and like, not. I know any clue that moments ago.

[B]

Somebody was killed there, you know, someone in our neighborhood. There was. We. We passed by this building all the time. It's just like a nail salon or something. And a body was just found up there that was there for like three days apparently. And it's so weird that, like, we were maybe driving past.

[A]

You just hate to hear that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Sad. That's sad. And I'm sure it happens all the time. All the time. So. Yeah. He had been shot about 10 hours before his business partner had been able to find him and call police. But because the neighbors couldn't see front porch from the sidewalk, they weren't able to see his body, even though was basically right there in front of them, which is also very chilling. So Eric's brother happened to be a deputy. A deputy sheriff who had just wrapped up training with the homicide bureau and had to immediately respond to the scene.

[B]

Oh, my God. They. So they weren't even like, oh, this is too personal. You have to stay off this case.

[A]

I think he probably wanted to go. It said that he responded to the scene right away. So I don't know if that was. He had just passed training and he heard what happened.

[B]

I assume in that ran over.

[A]

I assume he would, like, wanted to be part of it. So he did respond to the scene. And at first he like, really couldn't even grasp it. But when he walked inside the house and he just said that, it felt empty, quiet. Like, you know how this was such a vibrant social and space for. And like open. He just said there was like this silence and emptiness to the house. And it just suddenly hit him all at once that his brother was dead. And at this point, he couldn't imagine who would want to kill his brother. And neither could anyone else who knew Eric. Everyone who told the police. I'm sorry. Everyone who interviewed with police had only good things to say about him. So the case detectives dug deep into Eric's life for any possible motive among anyone he knew. There were headlines, of course, like I mentioned earlier about his death that sensationalized his. And they refer to him as a sex clothes exec, which, like, isn't even.

[B]

Very catchy or it's not even a good bad name.

[A]

No, exactly. It's not even like, oh, I had to do it because it was so clever. It's like not even that.

[B]

And I, you know, like the friends that were with them that were with him that night, they're all talking to each other, being like, well, let's think about every single person in the group. I'd almost be scared to reach out to the people in the group because I'm like, what if it's. What if that's the one that did it? You know?

[A]

Oh, that's like a whole nother social anxiety on top of everything else. Like, oh, God, like, was it one of us? Yeah. Ooh. Ooh. That's chilling.

[B]

And it doesn't feel totally premeditated to me. If, like, they just left the body there, like, wouldn't you think, like, about disposing of the body or maybe it not being so damn close to the yard, you know?

[A]

Like, I mean, I think oftentimes if somebody just wants someone dead, they just get rid of the evidence of what they did. And, like, I mean, it does feel.

[B]

Premeditated that they got rid of the casings, I guess. But, yeah, it's wild that they. I feel like that the. It went. It got out of hand in some way because you would think they'd want to try to hurt him in a quieter spot or in a less obvious spot.

[A]

It sounded, like, very intentional for it. You basically shoot and jump in the car, you know, like getaway car, but. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I've definitely seen that before, though, where people who are kill. Who are shot and killed intentionally are, like, shot and killed right outside their home. I don't know.

[B]

Gotcha. Like a drive by.

[A]

More like a drive by, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. So he has no clue who. Who this could be. And of course, all when the media gets hold of it, it becomes. Becomes the sex clothes exec again. It's still not. Still not good. There was speculation that Eric's business and nightlife played a role in his death because it was, like, different and weird, quote, unquote, you know? But that just seemed to be rooted in the misconception of sex clubs as inherently unsafe or even as the misconception of being a furry as, like, some depraved thing, you know, I think there were just a lot of stereotypes being bandied about.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But in reality, Eric seemed to have nothing but friends and loyal customers and, like, happy relationships in that scene. What was almost completely overlooked in the media coverage of his death, though, was Eric's very public involvement with this guy named. Oh, my gosh, Zechariah Sitchin.

[B]

That's That's a. That's another easy Facebook search. That's. You don't have to wonder if you found the right guy. Guy.

[A]

Well, maybe don't go looking for this one quite yet. I don't know. Basically, this guy.

[B]

I'm just saying, if you heard about him at a bar, your friend would find him very easily.

[A]

This isn't Immediately.

[B]

You wouldn't have to hire Christine.

[A]

And my mutual friend would be M. Schultz. Probably. We have one mutual. So this guy was an alien theorist, so to speak. He wrote that the human species was once a genetic science project. Project created. It has very. Scientology vibes. Was a genetic science project created by an ancient race of extraterrestrials from a planet called Nibiru. So this feels like the Travel Channel or whatever. The what show? What? Ancient Aliens. It's like, it's basically Ancient aliens is what that this guy subscribes to. And, yeah, basically he says that these extraterrestrials are said to have genetically engineered humans to serve them as slaves, but we were eventually abandoned and consequently freed. And basically, this Sit. Guy and his books are often referenced in fringe doomsday conspiracies. And actually, M. You mentioned him in episode. Apparently, episode 339, when we covered the 2012 prophecy.

[B]

I did?

[A]

Yeah. Apparently you mentioned him. Probably just like a side note maybe. I don't know. I don't know. But he. He's basically one of those guys who claimed, like, he knew the world was ending, yada, yada.

[B]

That's so weird. Like, it Isn't that what you tell me now? What?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. Go ahead.

[B]

I was gonna say, isn't it gonna move on wild. That, like, I wonder how many of our stories do have an overlap of, like, oh, there's a mutual friend, but that, like, somehow connects to both our stories.

[A]

Usually Houdini or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Those two seem to have their fucking hands and everything.

[B]

I know, but, like, what are the odds? I'm like, oh, yeah, and here's this doomsday stuff where I talk about this random guy. Oh, by the way, he was a prime suspect in a murder.

[A]

Like, no, no, no, no. He is not a prime suspect in a murder. Okay, very clear here.

[B]

I heard he had a connection to the murder victim. And I was like, okay, here we go.

[A]

No, no. So sorry. He had this. This involvement with this guy, Zechariah Sitchin, and he knew him personally. They were actually friends because he worked as his website manager. Manager. He was like the webmaster, basically, for Sitchin's whole website. And according to friends, Eric and his ex wife actually divorced because of these irreconcilable spiritual beliefs. Like she just couldn't get on board with the kind of fringe thinking and it broke them apart. So during their marriage, Nikki, mean, I forgot about this part. I just am eating, talking about eating my words forward four, four seconds after I said them. I completely forgot that she became a Scientologist during the marriage. So. Oh, when I said oh, she just deal with the fringe beliefs. And then I was like, anyway, she joined Scientology. Sorry, that sounded very silly. Basically they had irreconcilable spiritual beliefs in which Nikki was a Scientologist and Eric was like, that's ridiculous. I can't support that. That also, we're descended from a science project. I see alien astronauts.

[B]

They do feel like they could be cousins spiritually.

[A]

It feels like. Right, like that thing where they're too close.

[B]

Yeah, that.

[A]

Like it's just going to butt heads, you know, kind of like John, Helen. What was his name? Joe Himalay. Joe.

[B]

Joe Himalay.

[A]

And my stepdad. You know, it's like, oh, you could really get along and you did for a while, but it's just irreconcilable differences, you know. Anyway, so instead of Scientology, Eric was a devout student of Zechariah citizen's teachings, going so far as to travel the world to sites with extreme cultural significance, apparently to research their supposed links to ancient extraterrestrial powers. Now, I laugh at this a little bit and I kind of find it problematic. And I think we've probably talked about this, or at least you may have heard about it, folks, but like the idea that on some of these shows that, you know, ancient peoples who aren't white people most of the time, the theory is that they couldn't create a pyramid. So aliens must have done it. You know what I mean? There's like this kind of icky undercurrent of that argument. So I don't ascribe to it, but that was a huge part of this quote, unquote, like teaching is that, you know, aliens, extraterrestrials built the great pyramids, the et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, basically all the episodes of Ancient Aliens, I assume. I haven't seen it in a while, but that's kind of the vibe. So. Paleontologist Julian Benoit addressed people following Zechari's writing, like Eric, some of whom have actually damaged culturally significant sites such as pyramids in Egypt, trying to prove that aliens did it like y. Yikes. And so this guy.

[B]

And how would you prove that by the way?

[A]

Yeah, right, right, great.

[B]

What sample are of a pyramid are you going to bring to what doctor, what lab? She's going to do what science to it to figure out that it actually is like. Are you hoping that the result would be inconclusive because we don't have the technology?

[A]

I'm not kidding. They were looking. One episode said that they were looking for some element, some space element that you wouldn't find and they believed that it would be present in the stones or something. Meaning they would be from.

[B]

And that proves aliens, Right?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I mean there could be a million reasons for that. Okay, well, whatever.

[A]

Yeah. So the. The paleontologist who called them out wrote, well you may ask. So what? Who cares if relatively few people don't believe the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids. Pyramids, what's the harm? Actually there is great harm. Firstly, these people try to prove their theories by traveling the world and desecrating ancient artifacts. Secondly, they perpetuate and give air to the racist notion that only Europeans white people ever were and ever will be capable of such architectural feats. End quote.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Snaps for Julian.

[B]

Truly. I mean, I also used to fall victim to the. Oh, it must be aliens. Before I ever like.

[A]

I mean you and I were so, so impressed by what was it a. A door to bring your luggage inside or something.

[B]

We're impressed by. We're easily bamboozled. Let's put that.

[A]

So like we're impressed that people even thought to put holes in the floor to bring light into the basement. Okay. So like I can see why we'd fall victim to something like this, but yeah, it is important to realize that it has pretty racist. I said undercurrents earlier. It's probably more like overcrowded current.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, so it's not known exactly how Eric like what his extent of interactions were with all these cultural sites, but he did play a very public role in encouraging these beliefs on others, even appearing on ancient aliens.

[B]

Oh, holy. Is that how you found this guy? Are you.

[A]

No, this was something I'd never heard of before. I just. Yeah. And. And I mean as I was like listening to them go on about, I was like, this sounds like he should be on Ancient Aliens. And then they're like. Until his guest appearance on Ancient Aliens, which by the way.

[B]

There we go.

[A]

There we go. And they also made his fucking byline or what's it called? Your like your lower third. It said Sumerian researcher and it's like, oh, my God. Okay, he's. First of all, take several seats because he is a sex clothes exec. Put on the lower third.

[B]

It's like, it should be the picture of him in his furry suit.

[A]

Yes. Like, oh, the balloons are coming up. The balloons. Picture of him in his furry suit.

[B]

And then, like, sex clothes expert. And then also Sumerian researcher.

[A]

I just can't. And financial. Retired financial advisor.

[B]

Anyway, didn't I cover the Sumerians? Maybe that's when. What, the episode was like, Mount Shasta or something?

[A]

You did cover the Sumerians at one point. Yeah, maybe I.

[B]

Maybe I took quotes from him. I don't know.

[A]

Honestly, he could have been in multiple of your episodes. I wouldn't be surprised. Okay, so, yeah, maybe as they're going through this, or, like, I mean, this is a pretty wild lead that I assume police don't see all the time. So they're like, did he meet someone during his travels who wanted to hurt him? Did someone who. He had even more extreme beliefs, like, became, like, violent toward him for his research or they, you know, they thought he was doing something wrong? So detectives investigated several avenues in that regard as well. I mean, he had very varied interests. Very varied interests. Which again, reminds me of you. Seriously, every time.

[B]

Maybe you just had adhd.

[A]

I mean, obviously he did, but that. That goes on said, you know, that. Still. Still, I've adhd. I'm not nearly as, like. I don't know.

[B]

Okay, I know what you mean.

[A]

Culturally interested in niche subjects as you are. I don't know.

[B]

I think my special interest is special interests.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you. That's the best way to put it. That's the best way to put it. So detectives investigated several avenues searching for Eric's killer, whose identity remained a mystery despite the entire attack happening on camera. Remember when he got that security system?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So one of his security cameras was pointed directly where Eric was murdered. And it shows. Oh, this is so chilling. It shows him walking his friends to his. To their cars, and then he walks back to his front door. And as he's about to enter, the killer steps out from behind the bushes, aiming a large gun at Eric and firing twice. Issue is they were wearing a Halloween costume.

[B]

Of course. Didn't this just happen?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Just do a Halloween shooting.

[A]

I did. I did.

[B]

At someone's doorstep.

[A]

I did. I think maybe that's where the. The algorithm took me. They were like, the Trick or Treat.

[B]

The Trick or Treat killer or something.

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was a murder on Halloween as well. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

What was the costume that this guy was wearing?

[A]

It was basically just a robe and like a mask. It was like the very basic, I think. So one of the people on the show said something like, which is basically what you get if you haven't planned any sort of Halloween. Like, she said it in kind of a very catty way of like, which is the lamest thing you could be on Halloween. You know, like, you weren't even creative.

[B]

With your stupid Halloween.

[A]

No creativity whatsoever.

[B]

But I also get that that's like you would pick the Vegas one.

[A]

The Vegas one. And it's, it's. It's a black hood with like just a covered face mask. So it's basically like you, like a cloak situation, so you can't tell who it is. And so, you know, they got up close, they're even holding a weapon, which could be concealed or be pretend to be fake, you know, and so they basically are easy to blend in. And nobody even thought twice. So. Neighbors later reported hearing what may have been gunshots, but there's so much partying going on that they were like, well, maybe it was firecrackers or car misfire, backfire. And so police only knew that the murderer was tall. They could see the outline with a broad frame. And the attack was swift and pointed like an execution. So they were basically like, somebody has probably ordered this hit.

[B]

I was just saying it definitely wasn't one of his friends that he. Like, everyone left at the same time.

[A]

Yeah, they all left at the same time. This person had. So they showed the group arriving and then all of them leaving. And it was as he walked back alone that somebody jumped out. So with no other leads, detectives looked at the guy they had in prison. Michael Thomas, one of the two men who had attacked and robbed Eric in 2011, a year earlier, and the only one who was caught. But of course, he was in police custody when Eric was killed. He had been charged in August 2012, which was roughly a year after the home inv invasion. So in October of 2012, he was still in prison. Prison. Eric was set to testify against Michael in a pre trial hearing on December 2. And he had recently spoken to his brother Barry about testifying and how nervous he was to go to court and, and, you know, testify against this man who had attacked him. So he wondered to his brother if he was maybe eligible for witness protection. Michael's partner in the crime was still free. And of course he knew where Eric lived because he had gone there to rob him. So Eric was like, like you said earlier, that you'd be constantly like, is the friend going to come back? Like, they know where I live. And so turns out those fears were completely warranted. He asked aloud to his brother, you know, I wonder if I'm eligible for witness protection. But you know, that never really happened. In the end, Eric was killed before he even had the chance to, you know, decide whether or not to testify. Testify. Although Michael was in custody awaiting trial, investigators basically assumed he may have had something to do with this man's death. Because h, I wonder why Eric was about to testify against him in court. So they listened to hundreds of phone calls that Michael made from inside prison, mostly to his girlfriend who was 49 year old Yvonne Keith, and his 20 year old niece who lived with him named Jessica Thomas. And Je Jessica's boyfriend, 20 year old Allan Williams. So there were a lot of phone calls. They listened to and transcribed all of them. In one phone call, Michael said to Allen, you ready to put in some work? Well, since I'm not out there, then someone else has got to fight this case for me on the streets.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Basically he was asking them to get him out of jail by getting rid of the eyewitness.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He told Allan that somebody needed to make it all disappear and that the case could be dismissed, missed if an unnamed specific person didn't appear in court to testify. He said, quote, if the person doesn't come, then it goes away. That's the only way I'm going to be cleared. And I guess he thought that was subtle enough to not tip off investigators.

[B]

What an idiot. I mean, this guy also didn't like look up if the jewelry was real before. Very good point, but he clearly doesn't. He's not learning from his mistakes.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. The, the, the frontal lobe is not frontal lobing today.

[B]

I think that's exactly right.

[A]

So in other phone calls, they heard Michael coaching Yvonne for something vague. He told her to refuse to speak to authorities without a lawyer. And she, repeat, repeated his instructions as if writing them down on a piece of paper. The morning after Eric's death, Yvonne called Michael and told him everything was, quote, wonderful, which I guess was their key word, like it's been handled. She began to elaborate and he cut her off and said, that's enough. Then he asked if everything was gravy and she confirmed that it was and ended the call.

[B]

Gravy. What the hell? What year is this?

[A]

Pass. No.

[B]

Yeah, everything is.

[A]

Hi, I'm Capone and I'm here for on behalf of Hillshire Farms. Gravy. Okay. Three days after Eric was murdered, Jessica and Allan. So his. His girlfriend and niece visited him in prison. And their conversation, of course, was recorded. So Michael asked Jessica if she personally got close enough to confirm it, and she said she did. But there were strange pauses throughout the conversation. And the investigators realized, wait a minute, they're passing notes to each other. And because they're not visual, they're just, like, auditory, recorded, audio recorded. They went in and they said there's no way that they, like, left the notes in here. Right. They had thrown them in the trash can.

[B]

Of, like, the one thing these people are not is thinkers, is.

[A]

Is thinking ahead at all in one single way. Ever. Because basically, they tore up the notes and then dumped them in the trash of the visiting room. And of course, they immediately pulled them out. Yeah. And it wasn't good news for Michael. They found these notes, and the papers basically informed. The first one informed Michael that Eric's death was on the news. So his niece wrote down, hey, Eric's death is on the news. Michael then wrote back instructions to tell the police that everyone was playing video games together all night when Eric was killed.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So Jessica, Allen, and Yvonne were all arrested. And a search of their things found more notes that Yvonne had written with instructions from Michael down to the type of weapon and ammunition used in the attack.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

In a holding cell together, Jessica and Yvonne spoke openly about the crime while Jessica wept. Now, Jessica's his niece, she's only 20, and she. She's been kind of roped into all this. Yvonne told Jessica they all did what they had to do to please Michael, who seemed to be, I guess, a skilled manipulator. Like, he seemed to hold serious control over his girlfriend and his niece. Basically, he told them to do this, and they did it.

[B]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

Allan and Jessica had no prior criminal history at all. And when Jessica's mother died, she had moved to LA to live with Michael. And she told him that he was a father to her, and she really loved and trusted him, and he treated her like his own daughter. And so when he said, you got to do this, me, she was like, okay. So, in custody for the crime, though, Jessica's loyalty crumbled, and she basically immediately confessed to her part in the crime. She even said to Yvonne in the holding cell, I can't believe we did this. I'm not sad for me. I'm sad for Eric. He ain't never did nothing. So they're basically like, how did we get roped into this?

[B]

And, Jess, at least someone feels regret, like no, truly.

[A]

And it is very refreshing because, well, we'll get there. Jessica quickly revealed the entire plot to detectives, describing her role as the lookout in the vehicle, while Allan, the. The. The guy, the man, her boyfriend, pulled the trigger and killed Eric. Her aunt said in an interview that Jessica was manipulated by Michael to do something completely out of her character that she'll forever regret. And she did accept a leniency deal for a second degree murder conviction and a life sentence with possibility of parole in exchange for testifying against him. Yvonne was considered more responsible for Eric's death because. Because not only was she in the getaway car, but she actually was the one who took all the instructions down over the phone. She was the one who told Jessica and Alan what to do. She oversaw Michael's plan on his behalf. So she was sort of like the manager of this whole plot. She and Allen, who Jessica's boyfriend who actually shot the gun, were both convicted for murder in the first degree and sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. And Michael, Both of them were. Yep. Michael, who orchestrated the entire plot to avoid home invasion charges, was ultimately sentenced to death for his role in the murder. Basically, he tried to get out of prison and ended up in prison for longer and for worse. And on death.

[B]

Lol.

[A]

Yeah. And his, his defense tried to argue on his behalf against the death penalty. And he said, nah, give up. I just want to. I just want to sleep. And geez. Because the defense couldn't overrule that, the judge was like, listen, he said it. Sorry, Goodbye, defense team. He's going on death row. And he did so after headlines focused on what some, some call like, off. This pisses me off so much. The headlines were focusing on like, Eric's double life. Like, because he had this sex clothes expert sex clothes exec. Thank you very much. As if selling lingerie was some sort of scandal. But it turns out like none of his subculture groups or friend groups had anything to do with his death. He was just a victim of a random burglary and then someone who wanted to keep him quiet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So according to the video of Eric's death, he was murdered at exactly 2:09am on the day of his funeral. Barry was helping remove Eric's coffin from the hearse at Eric's graveside when an alarm on his phone went off in his pocket. And he discovered that this random alarm had somehow been set, not by him, to the exact time of 2:09pm Ooh. And he said he took it as a message from Eric. Quote, I told You. So Barry said he believed Eric was sending a sign that the universe is there. There.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Anyway, that's the story of Eric Pter.

[B]

That's a heavy story.

[A]

It's a doozy, huh?

[B]

Yeah. Of course, leave it to people to demonize someone who's just, like, sex positive and, like.

[A]

And who's been murdered.

[B]

Like, why are we shaming the person who doesn't shame people when, like, what you should be caring about is the fact that he got murdered and, like, attacked twice. Like, it's not just murder, but he was attacked, traumatized, killed.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes. And, like, completely innocent. And none of his friend groups had anything to do with it or any of his interests or culture. Yeah, it just. It's a good lesson, you know?

[B]

Dang. Well, that's not. Are there any other Halloween trick or treat shootings that you're going to be telling us about? Because it's weird that there was two so recently.

[A]

I know there were. There were other ones. And it's so funny. Like, when going through this, I never occurred. Like, the Halloween thing didn't click right away because it was, like, so much about aliens and about, like, it. Like the actual day of the murder had to do with Halloween, but, like, everything around it just felt, like, so unrelated that I don't think it even occurred to me. I really don't think it even occurred to me.

[B]

It's like that TikTok sound of, like, if I had a nickel, I'd have two nickel. If I had a nickel for every time this happened, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that there's two of them. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Just like that. Just like that. Yep.

[B]

Anyway, I guess we're on to our. What is it called? Yappy hour.

[A]

Something like that. We're going to talk about our face. Favorite Facebook groups.

[B]

And when. When this comes out, we'll. I think we'll have been done with our winter tour.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

Or a fall tour.

[A]

I can't believe it.

[B]

And now we get a little break.

[A]

Sort of.

[B]

A little break.

[A]

A little break. Yes. But we'll be back at it soon enough.

[B]

All right. I'll see you at yappy hour, I guess.

[A]

Okay. See you. Happier.

[B]

And that's why we drink.