E432 A Techno Western Hotel and a Moonlit Bobcat Crime

Summary

Podcast Title: And That's Why We Drink
Episode: E432 A Techno Western Hotel and a Moonlit Bobcat Crime
Release Date: May 18, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz

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Introduction and Personal Updates

In this episode of And That's Why We Drink, hosts Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz kick off with their characteristic banter, delving into personal anecdotes that set a relatable tone for their listeners. Early in the conversation, Christine shares her experiences adjusting to new family dynamics, particularly after adopting Hank, their energetic new puppy. Em adds humor to the discussion, jokingly mentioning moments when Hank's antics made home life both challenging and entertaining.

Adoption of Hank and Life Adjustments [05:03 - 09:16]

Christine and Em discuss the joys and trials of dog parenthood, detailing Hank's high energy levels and the adjustments they've had to make in their routines. Christine mentions, "I have been overwhelmed, but that's fine," highlighting the balance between the chaos a new pet brings and the happiness Hank adds to their lives. Em echoes this sentiment, sharing funny anecdotes about Hank's behavior and the community they've built at the local dog park.

Encounters with Local Community and Parenting Challenges [10:03 - 14:19]

The conversation shifts to their interactions with the broader community, including heartfelt moments like Em's appreciation for his mother and the playful dynamics within her family. They touch upon parenting challenges, such as dealing with a child's longing for their traveling parent, and the importance of maintaining strong family bonds despite life's inevitable stresses.

Exploration of Haunted Locations: Hotel Congress [21:06 - 53:54]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the eerie Hotel Congress in Tucson, Arizona, a location steeped in history and paranormal lore. Christine recounts their stay at the hotel during one of their shows, describing it as "the weirdest hotel experience" with its vintage decor and haunted reputation. They delve into the hotel's rich history, including a devastating fire in 1934 and its ties to infamous gangster John Dillinger.

Em shares a chilling recount: "When we got there, I looked around and I was like, this place is obviously f***ing haunted." The hosts explore various haunted rooms within the hotel, each with its own ghostly tales—from doors unlocking on their own in room 212 to apparitions appearing in room 242. Christine adds, "Guests will wake up from nightmares and see someone standing over them," painting a vivid picture of the hotel's haunted ambiance.

True Crime Spotlight: The Murder of Elisa Sherman [61:00 - 107:34]

Transitioning from ghost stories to true crime, Christine brings to light the harrowing case of Elisa Sherman, a compassionate labor and delivery nurse from Cleveland whose life was tragically cut short. Born in 1959 to Holocaust survivors, Elisa was known for her unwavering dedication to her patients and her community. Her marriage to Sanford Sherman, an eye surgeon, appeared stable until mounting tensions led Elisa to file for divorce in 2011.

Tragedy struck on March 24th, a few days before her court date, when Elisa was brutally attacked and murdered outside her divorce attorney Gregory Moore's office. Em narrates the grim details: "She had been stabbed 11 times by..." The investigation initially pointed fingers towards Sanford, uncovering deep-seated financial fraud and coercive behavior during their marriage. However, recent developments in 2025 shed new light on the case, revealing Gregory Moore's direct involvement.

Christine relays the breakthrough: "Ohio authorities said they've solved the more than decade old fatal stabbing of a Cleveland clinic nurse, announcing recent murder charges against her former divorce attorney..." Moore, previously uncooperative and implicated in other dubious activities, was arrested and indicted for his role in Elisa's murder. This revelation brings a bittersweet closure to Elisa's grieving family, as Christine notes, "Glad they got the person. But the memories are painful."

Conclusion and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Christine and Em blend their personal stories with engaging discussions of historical hauntings and contemporary true crime, offering listeners a compelling mix of the paranormal and the poignant realities of human experiences. They reflect on themes of loss, justice, and the enduring impact one individual can have on their community.

Closing the episode, the hosts express gratitude to their audience and tease upcoming content, maintaining their signature blend of depth and lightheartedness.

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Notable Quotes:

• Christine [03:10]: "I'm actively grieving the lack of freedom that's been taken away because all of a sudden, it happens overnight."

• Em [08:42]: "They're the most M thing I ever heard."

• Christine [24:30]: "Something else is going on. I wrote about it in our book."

• Em [49:07]: "They're like, that's actually something different. That has nothing to do with the robbery."

• Christine [65:48]: "There's nothing I'd rather be responsible for than telling some sort of legend and lore about how you go out."

• Em [97:22]: "Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment."

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This episode masterfully intertwines personal narratives with investigative storytelling, providing listeners with both entertainment and insightful reflections on the mysteries and tragedies that shape our lives.

Transcript

[Em]

You know what speed dating is, right? You've done that.

[Christine]

I have.

[Em]

I have not. But I'm sure you're the only millennial who has. And if you're the owner of a growing business, what if there was a feature like speed dating, except for hiring somebody? Isn't that interesting?

[Christine]

I would do it 100%.

[Em]

Well, good news there is. It's Zip Intro from ZipRecruiter. You can post your job today and start talking to qualified candidates tomorrow. And right now, you can try Zip Intro for [e-mail] Drink.

[Christine]

Yeah. Zip Intro gives you the power to quickly assess excellent candidates for your job via back to back video calls. We kind of. Before this feature came out, we actually did do this at the local coffee.

[Em]

Shop and just hang up on people in person. Yeah. And be like, goodbye. Next.

[Christine]

But no, it's, you know, the awkwardest one.

[Em]

There was somebody next to us, remember, who was also interviewing and it was not Eva, the last person. But they, you know, they just had to go up against Eva. There was no winning, you know.

[Christine]

Yeah. They came in right after Eva and they definitely heard us saying before their interview that we don't need to look any further.

[Em]

She's the one. We said.

[Christine]

Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with new Zip Intro only from ZipRecruiter, rated number one hiring site based on G2.

[Em]

Try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com Drink again, that's ZipRecruiter.com Drink Zip Intro. Post Jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Hello everyone, and welcome to and that's where we drink the podcast where we tell each other spooky stories and just yap and yap until our throats are sore.

[Christine]

Yap and yap till we don't give a crap.

[Em]

That's right. We just talked about how that word was really banned in our house. That word. Crap.

[Christine]

Oh, that was the word that I learned. That was the first bad word I was allowed to say at 10 and I abused that quite.

[Em]

You abused that power? Yeah, I. My stepmom said that was worse than she's like, you can say all you want, but please don't say the C word around me. Little did I know there would be a new C word. She would have hated that one much worse.

[Christine]

I wonder what crap meant to her. What happened with.

[Em]

She also didn't let me save restroom because she said, we're not truckers. And I was like, oh, okay. She said, is she okay? No, she. Did you. Sorry. Were you not aware of that?

[Christine]

Sorry. Your stepmom. Okay. Yeah, sorry it's called.

[Em]

She said, it's the powder room.

[Christine]

And I said, powder room. Okay. That no one uses powder anymore, babe. Oh, wait, I guess maybe people do. Like a setting powder. Maybe. I don't know. Don't people spray that on now? I know nothing about today's makeup.

[Em]

What if I just became a trucker and then I said, now I can say restroom all I want?

[Christine]

Actually, that'd be such a fun little twist of events. I had a neighbor and their mom, like, had some weird fucking problem with if you would hiccup. Like, she thought that was. She thought it was on purpose. She, like, for some reason to. Her hiccups were like, if you burped openly at the table. That's what I'm saying. I was like, are you new? Like, that's not something you can control. But she had a big fucking problem with it. Like, it wasn't funny. Like, if you hiccuped, you had to leave the table.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

Anyway, couldn't be me.

[Em]

I was gonna say, I'm sure you never hiccuped around her.

[Christine]

No. Once I found that out, I was like, I'm. I'm terrified of standing next to you because you never know what's gonna happen either. It's like a drive by. It's like, you know, all of a sudden you've got a big old hiccup. Yeah. Yeah. Then you can't stop.

[Em]

It's just the worst feeling. Especially when you drink, like two drinks and you're not drunk yet, but you start hiccuping and then you're like, now I look like a fool. Now I can't. Like, now every time I talk, I go like. And then I look like a drunk. It really is fr.

[Christine]

I've talked to you before about how my hiccups sound. Right? They don't sound like normal hiccups.

[Em]

I don't remember is it.

[Christine]

They sound like. They're like bird squawks. Yeah.

[Em]

That's probably why I would also ban you from my house if I. If I knew you. And I do. Well, so you're officially banned.

[Christine]

She's lucky she never heard it, but it's terrifying anyway. Oh, why?

[Em]

She heard it, so she probably heard of it. She was like, oh, I gotta ban this before it gets, you know, out of control.

[Christine]

That would be so embarrassing to find that out years later if it was.

[Em]

Just you all along. You're the only one who got that rule. No, I'm certain that's not it.

[Christine]

Why do you drink this week, Cristine?

[Em]

Well, I drink. I'm mostly just thinking about your life these days. Because your life is so extreme. I don't know. Because of just, like, developments. So I don't know if we're even allowed to talk about that. Are we allowed to talk about that yet or not?

[Christine]

Oh, I see what's happening here. We adopted Hank.

[Em]

Not Em and me. But.

[Christine]

Can you imagine? That would be the. Funny. That's.

[Em]

Shared custody.

[Christine]

I thought about announcing it by having him, like, coming on the camera with, like, a bandana that says, I'm adopted or whatever. But the problem is, that would mean he's here in the. In the room. And that's the worst version of it is when I'm recording.

[Em]

That's the one big thing we're trying to figure out. Well, also, people were starting. People were starting to notice because people would call in and they'd be. The place would be like, oh, no, he's been adopted already. So surprise, the rumors are true.

[Christine]

I didn't even know people were finding out. I thought people just finally backed off of asking every five seconds.

[Em]

I think that was just. Just Megan said, huh, I got this dm. And we were like, that's odd. And then the next day, you were like, guess what? I, um. I'm very excited about it.

[Christine]

I'm terrified, but I'm happy, but I'm terrified. I don't know. I feel like.

[Em]

I mean, that feels like parenthood.

[Christine]

I feel like that's a fair thing to say. I'm not gonna sit here and color it as, like, I'm the most excited in the whole world. I am. I'm actively grieving the lack of freedom or the freedom that's been taken away because all of a sudden, it happens overnight. Now I'm like, oh, well, I can't go out and do this thing. Basically, I'm trying to, like, now that we're about to not be on tour, I was, like, planning on never being home so I could, like, go explore and travel. And now I've got to, like, be home at least a little regularly. So in that Way I have been talking to my therapist where I'm like, oh, good, this sucks. But I. Other than that, that's. I think that's the only. Only beef I got with it. Usually. I've got a list of grievances.

[Em]

It's a list of grievances. Hank's a big list. Is he. Is Allison there with him now?

[Christine]

For like, a hot second. And then she's doing her three month trek away.

[Em]

I keep waiting for you to tell me that was a prank that you're pulling on me, but I keep waiting.

[Christine]

For her to tell me it's a prank. It's not the only.

[Em]

I mean, out of your mind. What were you. What are you thinking, dude? Y' all are out of your mind.

[Christine]

For Allison leaving, that was not my call at all.

[Em]

I know.

[Christine]

I know it was not my call, but I. I think I just. I have to grapple with the fact that, like, it's now going to be an expensive thing to keep my. My original way of being, because if I want to travel now, I have to think about the additional cost of, like, either boarding him or having someone come stay with them. So, yeah, that's the. That's the life.

[Em]

That's.

[Christine]

That's the biggest downtime. Everything else is good so far. Of course, the day we adopted him, we were like, yay, let's see how long we can, like, not mess up. And then he started throwing up for, like, four days and had pink eye. It's like he found out he could finally be himself.

[Em]

See, it's like when we get home from tour and we realize we don't have any more shows, and then we just, like, fall ill with every type of disease. We haven't.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Let ourselves get sick with.

[Christine]

I signed the papers. And all of a sudden he just. Oh, oh, I signed the papers. And as of yesterday, he's now a humper at the dog park. I'm like, what the fuck is that? One of the reasons we got you is because you were in a humper, and now all of a sudden, I think he's feeling real comfy over there too. So.

[Em]

The humper. That's what they call him.

[Christine]

That's what I'm terrified of. I don't want to be known as, like, the person with the humping dog, but I don't. I don't know.

[Em]

Other dogs do that. It's. Don't worry, it's not that abnormal. I. Dominance thing.

[Christine]

Thought we got away with it because for three, four months of having him, he's never done it once, and now he's doing it every time we go. So I'm like, is it puberty? I don't know. He's neutered. I don't know what's going on.

[Em]

They figure out, and I don't know. Yeah. Sometimes I hate it. Yeah. Nobody likes it.

[Christine]

So, anyway, I'm. I am very excited that he's with us. I'm just at the same time, you know, realizing what that means. So I have been overwhelmed, but that's fine. Weirdly, the. The thing that doesn't overwhelm me is his high energy, that part. We, like, figured out a routine for him and everything, and that's.

[Em]

Oh, good.

[Christine]

So if we could figure that out.

[Em]

Six miles a day. Is that feels like what you said you had to do? And it sounded like a nightmare. I hope you found a. A workaround.

[Christine]

We got it down to walking a mile a day and still an hour and a half at the dog park. But like I said, at the dog park, I've built a bit of a community, so that doesn't feel too miserable. Um, the. The walking in the morning is not my favorite, but he also. I'm very lucky that we have a dog that lets us sleep in, so really, it's. Whenever I get up, I said to walk him.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So we're. We're figuring it out. Still have this cough, too, by the way, so that's another reason I drink. Why do you drink, Christine?

[Em]

Besides me now, being a parent, I mean, I just. On Mother's Day, m texted out and about, and I was just, like, about to cry about it. It just made me so happy.

[Christine]

Why?

[Em]

Because it was so sweet that, like, she has a puppy now, and Allison. You can text Allison on Mother's Day and be like, you're. This is Hank, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah. I. I did it to be annoyingly sweet, but I. I promise I don't actually equate a dog.

[Em]

Oh, no, no. I didn't mean it like that. I just meant. No, it was so sweet. You were like, I had Hank tell Allison, happy Mother's Day. Yeah, I mean, literally, you were one of the first people to tell me, Em has, like, schedule on Mother's Day. Like, let me tell everyone, Happy Mother's Day. So that was part of a much bigger. I didn't mean to paint it. Like you said, Allison's a mom now. I'm not saying that, but it was really cute. You were like, ho is saying, oh, yeah.

[Christine]

I called Allison, and when she answered, I went, hang on. Let me pat you through? And then I went. And I went, whoa, is this Allison? I just want to say, boy, they said, don't look at me. Because they were, like, sitting right next to each other, like, don't look at me. I'm hiding my contraband phone. Don't look at me.

[Em]

Don't look at me. I'm ventriloquism speaking into it.

[Christine]

Yes. 100.

[Em]

My contraband. Okay. Anyway, I'm just really, really excited about it. It's a fun development. We needed some good news, you know, on the podcast, I like that your.

[Christine]

Reason why you drink is because I got a dog.

[Em]

Yeah. Because I was like, it's, like, killing me to not talk about it. And so I was like, I can't think of anything else that's bigger news in my life right now. I mean, well, thank you. What's the other news? What am. I mean, I don't know. I just got home, and then I leave again, you know, in two days.

[Christine]

I'm your living creature.

[Em]

They're all alive, so that's good. Liona was like, don't leave me again.

[Christine]

And I'm like, oh, gosh, that's heartbreaking, girl. You'll get used to it. Not to be that person, but as someone. My mom traveled all the time when I was a kid, you really eventually just becomes second nature. It's not like a. It's not a trauma. I don't think you have to worry about her having a complex one day. Yeah, but I know in the moment, it's sad.

[Em]

It's just like, oh, the working parent, you know? And she's like, when do you get home from your. I always bring her slime home. So, like, it's really not that bad.

[Christine]

She's fine. She's fine. I also think it's because she has blaze there 24 7, so she can see what the other option is. You know, she's kind of like.

[Em]

It's like. It's like, he doesn't believe me, but, like, he'll go out of town. And she's like, I don't want you. I want Daddy. And Blaze is like, she would never say that. I'm like, of course she does. She says that, you know, grass is always greener. You. You know, it's. It's very true at that age, too. But, no, it's very fun. She's just a delight. I'm just. She's. Yesterday she said, hold on, let me get myself situated. And I was like, huh? She's like, every day she says, I'm.

[Christine]

Like, you are obviously around enough in the house if she's saying like that.

[Em]

Because saying like that. That is true. That is fair. She's clearly picking something up from me. But apparently she asked Blaze sometimes she asked to listen to a podcast, and they have a lot of kids podcasts now, which I think is super cool. So, like, work it out. Wombats, which Eva's partner Ray actually wrote for in the past, they have a podcast, and it's, like, really fun. They have sound effects, and, like, all the guys, they're all talking, and it's. It's, like, super cute. And I was like, what a great thing to have. So if anyone out there with kids, like, show them the. The PBS is a lot. Well, for now, but, you know, let's give them some support. There are a lot of good PBS podcasts and other, like, smaller shows. I just. It's so cool.

[Christine]

Do you have a favorite kids podcast, like, one where, like, when she asks, you're not so miserable about it?

[Em]

I'm not really. Actually, I do love the work it at Wombats 1.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

Sesame Street 1 is annoying, but really.

[Christine]

It'S just, like, really in their time of need. In their time of need. Christine.

[Em]

Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sure there's another one. Maybe Daniel Tiger. I don't know. I can't think of who else has one.

[Christine]

But that should be our next adventure, is that we do scary stories for kids, right?

[Em]

I mean, I. That's not a bad idea.

[Christine]

Don't take that from us. We came up with the first trademark copyright, and that's why we play.

[Em]

That's why we drink chocolate milk.

[Christine]

See, I've been. This is. I've been manifesting it, apparently, since 2017. And that's why we drink anything but alcohol. You're welcome, everyone. That would be an easy transition. Let's get Maggie on the horn.

[Em]

Maggie, Let me pat you through.

[Christine]

Hello?

[Em]

Oh, no, this is Hank. Sorry, I meant to call Maggie.

[Christine]

Wrong number. It's not Mr. Glitter Shoes. It's not Maggie. It's not Allison. Oh, gosh. Well, I'm glad that you're excited that I am thrilled. Puppy parent. I. Christine already gave us our first gifts, which is very lovely.

[Em]

They were kind of lame. I'm sorry.

[Christine]

No, they're not lame at all. Now Hank and I have matching clothes. Are you kidding me? That's, like, what I've wanted in my whole life.

[Em]

It was meant to be. I knew you were gonna buy it anyway, so I figured, here's a gift card. You pick you Pick and choose your. I knew you had colors already selected. I wasn't. I wasn't a fool in that way.

[Christine]

You know me well. You know me well. Yes. So I officially have a puppy. I'm glad that you're very excited because I think reality just kind of bitch slapped me.

[Em]

So that's why it's pretty well aware of the risks. Before you adopted him, though, I feel like you were very like, hey, this isn't. This is like the. This is what?

[Christine]

That's right. I mean, I didn't do it like, willy nilly, but I. I knew what I was going to get into. But I think the finale, like, the finale. I don't write. Word is. But when I signed the papers and it's like, oh, no turning back. I, like, had obviously a bit of a panic attack because that's who I am. But we're figuring it out. I am very happy he's with us. I would be devastated if he wasn't with us. I just have to adjust to the new life and it's tough, but I don't regret it. So I guess that's a good sign.

[Em]

That is a good sign. That's like the only real good sign.

[Christine]

The. It's just the. It's the logistics of it all. Like if we're gonna record and I, you know, it's just like now someone has to watch him all the time because he's so obnoxious at the table. You know, things like that.

[Em]

These two finally figured out their shit.

[Christine]

That's what I need. I need a little tranquilized puppy dog.

[Em]

That's right. You need to wait like six years and then he'll calm down. Off.

[Christine]

Good. Okay, great. Anyway, so I guess I drink for the same reason you drink. We have a new member of the family and. And that's. That's that. So anything else we got to update people on? We're about to be done with our tour. When this comes out, we'll be done with our tour.

[Em]

That's. That's really wild.

[Christine]

That's really. That's gonna be a sad day for me. I'm gonna cry.

[Em]

Yeah, that's gonna be rough. And especially because it's Boston. That feels so big. And then right after that, it's like summertime and our birthdays and it's just so weird that we're already like almost halfway through the year. It's really tripping me up a little bit.

[Christine]

Maybe for our yappy hour, we can announce to people where we went ghost hunting.

[Em]

Oh, that's A great idea. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah. We can finally talk about it. I love that.

[Christine]

Okay, great. Well, then everyone go sign up for Patreon right now. You have about an hour.

[Em]

Yeah, I mean, it'll still be there where it's. This is not like a limited time run video.

[Christine]

No, you have an hour. You get to listen, and then in an hour when this is over, then you can hop right over to Patreon.

[Em]

I love your. Your. Your optimism that this will be over in less than an hour, but we'll try. We'll try. Yeah. I love this also this new trend where we come up with the yappy hour in the opening. It's kind of fun. It like, gives us something to look forward to. Yeah. To jump into at right after. I don't know. It's like an easier way to end the show.

[Christine]

Well, I do have a story for you, Christine. However, we are in Trosmo territory. I'm still in Phoenix. And I need to warn you that as soon as it gets good, I will have to go downstairs and get.

[Em]

My flt Will arrive.

[Christine]

And by the way, apparently this is like the news. Tony. Tony Shackle. Only so many people are tagging me with their Trosmo. Ah, I'm so excited. So anyway, Tropical Smoothie, I have loved you my whole life. Please sponsor us. Thank you so much.

[Em]

One of. One of them will stick someday. One of these will stick someday.

[Christine]

One of these. Tony wouldn't do it, so we stopped talking.

[Em]

Starbucks didn't do it with your fucking look.

[Christine]

I mean, these days, I guess I'm glad that I don't have a partnership with Starbucks, but at the same time, the best.

[Em]

That was probably for the best.

[Christine]

You would think one tea company would be like, this is the money maker. Let's do something with this London fog. But nobody wants to work with me. I'm not that horrible.

[Em]

Finally, they get it.

[Christine]

Anyway, Tropical Smoothie, if you would like to give me.

[Em]

It could be because of that letter I send out every time someone offers to work with you.

[Christine]

Ignore the letter.

[Em]

Are you sure? Here's a waiver, a liability waiver. And just like, never mind.

[Christine]

A lifetime supply of the blueberry bliss with extra strawberries of the mango for a banana. Thank you so much. Wait. Sub the banana for mango. Don't fuck me up.

[Em]

That's the cur. That's like a. That's like a ho type curse. Yeah. Fruit in your smoothie for the rest of your life. That's.

[Christine]

Finally get the partnership. But I don't get the right recipe.

[Em]

That could be the first story in our kids. Scary.

[Christine]

Wait a minute.

[Em]

Maybe it's too scary.

[Christine]

It's certainly horrific.

[Em]

Life altering.

[Christine]

That is kind of like a bluey lesson, isn't it? It's like kind of getting what you want, but not really. Yeah, I would have to learn first. What. How to handle that before I could write about learning the lesson. That's the problem.

[Em]

Oh, right. You're like. You're like the child in it. And then I'll. I'll come in and say, let's find ways to work through it and then we can write it like that.

[Christine]

How do I gentle parent the phrase get over it? Because that's what I would have to do. Right?

[Em]

Get over it. Well, there's a lot of ways to do that nowadays. You could say, we'll ask Dr. Becky. But you could say, I'll sit with you while you process this.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. It honestly could just be a podcast where you say that and then I cry, and then 45 minutes later, the episode's over.

[Em]

Well, that's just like our day to day. Let's do it. Put a camera, microphone. We're in.

[Christine]

I'm telling you. And. And halfway through the tears, you'll just hear, I love tropical smoothie. They have the best blueberry bliss there has ever been. And then that's what I cry.

[Em]

No, it'll be like something that's not tropical. It'll be like smoothie king. It'll just be like the wrong thing.

[Christine]

Oh, that would hurt. That would hurt. Yeah. Okay.

[Em]

Oh, I see. It says to go. Go on a rant about previous sleep issues I've had. Well, I think we need to take the rest of the day off because I have so many that it'll probably take me three hours. But in the interest of time, I want to tell you that Helix, thank God, is really the only way I can sleep. Well now I feel, like, so old when I go to hotels. I'm like, I miss my mattress. Like, I. Everything hurts when I don't sleep on my Helix mattress.

[Christine]

If I don't sleep exactly the right way, in the exact right place, on the exact right thing, I will be a decrepit little skeleton the next day.

[Em]

That's right. We. We really do. I bought. I remember buying my Helix mattress, like, when I first moved into the house. It was the first big purchase we made for the house. And it's still going strong. I'm sitting on it right now. I just love this thing. And they're just an awesome company during the fires. They helped so many families, including people we know, by sending materials and supplies and comforting things to help people rebuild their lives. So I just really thankful that Helix is a sponsor and we just. We just love them.

[Christine]

Go to helixsleep.com drink for 27 off site wide and a free bedding bundle, sheet set and mattress protector for any luxe or elite mattress Order exclusive for listeners of and that's why we drink.

[Em]

That's helixsleep.com drink for 27 off site wide and free bedding bundle, sheet set and mattress protector with any Luxor Elite mattress order exclusive for listeners of and that's why we drink helixsleep.com drinking christine.

[Christine]

I'm in the middle of an adventure right now, and yet I'm always craving a new adventure.

[Em]

That's the most M thing I ever heard. Well, I have good news for you, M. Even when you're on your own adventures, you could take another kind of adventure with Audible. Because Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command. From electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance in far off realms. And also the Haunted Road Atlas. All of that in the list.

[Christine]

Yeah, you can unleash your adventurous side with gripping titles that keep you guessing. Exclusive captivating Audible originals, hotly anticipated new releases and must listen bestsellers that hook you from the first minute.

[Em]

Plus, discover big releases like Frida McFadden's A Tenant Love, Freedom McFadden and Amelia Hart's the Sirens. Audible offers over a million audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. We love Audible. I use it all the time. I like to listen to Stephen King's short stories because he reads them sometimes or he at least chimes in every now and then. And I feel like I'm, you know, he's just like on the horn with me telling stories. I just. I love Audible. I can't picture a life without it.

[Christine]

Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try Audible now for free for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills. Visit audible.com drink or text drink to 500. 500. I got me a story for you and I think you're gonna like it. Do you have a guess what I'm gonna cover? Christine I think you do.

[Em]

Well, now that you say that, I absolutely do not.

[Christine]

Well, doesn't have to be the right guess.

[Em]

Is it?

[Christine]

You're right. You're right.

[Em]

Congress Hotel.

[Christine]

Yes, ma' am.

[Em]

Yes. Oh, sorry, that was so loud. I Didn't look it up. And you know how hard it was for me to not look it up. So I think I knew instinctively.

[Christine]

For those who gathered in Tucson for our. One of our last shows, Christine and I and Eva, of course, stayed at the Hotel Congress in Tucson. And as soon as. My bad. We're gonna talk about it in a second. I promise I'll give you the floor to describe what that experience was. But when we got there, I looked around. I was like, this place is obviously fudgeing haunted. I feel like I've covered this before because the word congress is, like, in my goddamn head.

[Em]

Me too.

[Christine]

And I was like, something. But I looked through my notes. I looked everywhere. I looked everywhere. I was like, hasn't that's why we drink covered the. The Hotel Congress at Tucson apparently fudgeing. No, but what I did know. Note down for you is that episode 55, way back when, I did cover the Congress Plaza Hotel in Chicago.

[Em]

Maybe that's what felt okay. Maybe that's what it was.

[Christine]

That's what I said. And then I went, that can't be right. Something else is going on. I wrote about it in our book.

[Em]

Fucking duh. I was like, I know about this place, and I wouldn't know about it. There's no reason. I've never been to Tucson. Oh, my God. That explains it.

[Christine]

I settled for the Congress Plaza Hotel argument until I was doing the notes, and I was like, I've read this before.

[Em]

I was with you too. Because I was like, no, Hotel Congress is. Is what's in my head. Yeah, that's that. Of course. And we had to re. Of course. Yes. Okay.

[Christine]

And the best part is I couldn't find the research that I did for the book, so I had to redo the research this weekend.

[Em]

You're not just gonna read me the chapter, like, story time?

[Christine]

I thought about it, but it's actually, I did a pretty good job condensing all the notes into those, like, two or three pages. So I was gonna read it, but then will just kind of be.

[Em]

Save it for the kids show.

[Christine]

Yeah. Okay. And I would like to say this is a first for me. It took only 432 times, but I did these notes while in the location. Oh, that's. Yeah. Isn't that fun?

[Em]

We've never done that.

[Christine]

Which. Talk about scaring yourself straight. Because I was sitting there and reading about your ghosts that are on the. Well, hang on now. Researching ghosts that are maybe in the room with you is a crazy feeling. Every time I heard a sound I was like, what the hell was that?

[Em]

I'm literally amazed you didn't just show up at our door and go, here's something horrible. Good night.

[Christine]

Well, that's why when. When we walked past that one room, I went, that's the really bad one. Like, I was like, thank God you didn't ask how I knew that, because.

[Em]

I didn't even notice clearly.

[Christine]

But anyway, here is the Hotel Congress. It's in Tucson. It is not the Congress Plaza Hotel in Chicago, but it is on page 143 of our second book, Another Haunted Road Atlas. Next stop. And you can listen to it on Audible, by the way.

[Em]

That's right.

[Christine]

Just. Just shout out the people who do have a partnership.

[Em]

You can hear us literally reading the chapter out loud.

[Christine]

You can? Yeah. You can hear me say it there and here.

[Em]

And it will basically hear my interjections, which might be also exactly the same. I don't know yet. We'll find out.

[Christine]

That would be fun. Let's see.

[Em]

I always see that when I do chapters from that I've written. I always test to see. And your. Your reactions are usually, like, completely different, but, like, also just as unhinged. So it'll be a good experiment.

[Christine]

I still think about, what was. What was her name? Who Did I go on a date?

[Em]

I know. You were like, I was her name.

[Christine]

I keep on saying, am I okay? No, it wasn't. Am I okay? What the hell was her name? Everyone else was her.

[Em]

Melissa.

[Christine]

We didn't even hold. Michelle.

[Em]

Michelle.

[Christine]

I was gonna say, we didn't even hold hands. We went on two dates and that was it. Hi, Michelle. Okay, we have to say it every.

[Em]

Few episodes just to make sure.

[Christine]

I still think you reading that to me as, oh, this is something you said. And your brain created. And I didn't even remember it. And you were like, hysterical.

[Em]

God damn, my brain is funny. And I was like, I know. Oh, that was a. That's on social media. Megan cut that for us, which made me happy because now we can go watch it.

[Christine]

Well, here we go. This is Hotel Congress. Would you like to describe Hotel Congress to the people?

[Em]

Yeah, I must. So we have a. This guy Scott, who helps us book our. Or he, like, sends us options for hotels and stuff. And so usually Eva has been picking them but late. Like this past trip, I saw Hotel Congress, and for some reason. And he. He. Scott is into ghosts. And so every time, like, we go to Milwaukee, he's like, oh, tell me you're staying at the Fister. And like, he just Loves it. So he often includes a haunted hotel in the list. I. He didn't Mark mention it. And so I was like, why does it sound so familiar? But I looked it up and I was like, it's really cool and historic. So I clicked it, and then we walked in and I whispered to Eva, like, I feel like Ms. Covered this on the podcast. And Eva goes, yeah, something about it.

[Christine]

It's just like, well, it's so obviously haunted.

[Em]

It looks so obvious. And then we get up to the front, they're like, here's the layout of the rooms. And then some of the rooms have literal ghosts icons on them because they're haunted. And we didn't get placed in the haunted room, but Eva did get placed in something worse, which was called the club Club room. And it was.

[Christine]

No, that was me.

[Em]

Oh, yeah, I know. But we moved Eva.

[Christine]

Yeah, but so.

[Em]

Oh, when we got there, they put you in the room. And they were like, well, I mean, it's pretty loud. And we were like, how loud? And they're like, well, till 2:00am There will be a DJ, like, basically shaking the whole building. And so for 20 bucks more, we moved her. But then we met up with Eminem, was like, yeah, I'm on the club side. And we went to bed that night, and I'm not on the. I'm the quiet side. And I swear to God, like, the windows are rattling and it's like LMFAO playing downstairs. And I'm like, this is the. But the. The rooms themselves are wild. They're like very Old West. Mine was cowboy themed, and it had, like, the sink was. You know, the bathrooms are so tiny that the sink's in the bedroom. It's like, it looks kind of sparse, like an Old west hotel. It. It was cool, but it was definitely like, Christine maybe should have done her research before picking this the night before we traveled and all that. But it was fun, though. It was cool. I didn't have any ghost experiences, though. Eva did in the shower.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, I remember that. We can mention that later when I talk about the ghosts.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Christine]

My experience was I got there earlier, actually. Eva and Christine drove from Vegas to Tucson, and I went, I am going to take a plane. Thank you. And I got there. I got there in the morning and I didn't know I could switch rooms, but they did. They warn you immediately. They're like, oh, just so you know, you're above the club and would you like some complimentary earplugs? And I went, I mean, that's how.

[Em]

You know, like, if they're saying it that boldly, like, you know it's going to be bad because they probably wouldn't address it if it were just like a mild sound.

[Christine]

I was like, I'm probably going to be okay. And they went, no, you probably want the earplugs.

[Em]

And I went, there.

[Christine]

What is going on here? Like, what do you mean? I'm going to need them. Why are you putting me in a room there then? And now to know that there were other rooms available. Why on earth did you put.

[Em]

I love that you could have gotten Eva's replacement room and.

[Christine]

Nope, I took one for the team. I. But it really was. I. At some point, I dropped food off at Eva's room later that night when. When the club was jumping and I got to hear the difference and it was still loud where you guys were, but it was. I mean, the. The subwoofer or whatever might as well have been in my face.

[Em]

Yeah, that's what was crazy, is like the walls were shaking and I'm. But. And it was also like music from 2011. And I was like, this is such a weird throwback. Like, I'm just hearing like, Icona Pop. Like, I got this summer day. I'm like, oh, my God. And for like an old haunted western hotel. And then you're just like hearing like, give me, give me, give me a man. It's like techno beat. I mean, really, it was a. It was an experience.

[Christine]

Well, for me, great.

[Em]

For. To be fair, I slept really well for some reason, so I slept really well too.

[Christine]

But when I checked in, they even like, they don't have hotel keys. Like, it's so old and they've maintained everything from the 30s and 40s. They literally give you, like, basically like a skeleton key. Yeah, like a big ass, like, embossed brass key. And they're like, hey, so this is actually the original to the building. So if you leave, you have to bring it back to us and check it. Check it back in. And then when you come back to the hotel later, you can get it again for your room. You can't leave with this key.

[Em]

I was like, I left with it every time. They did not give me that warning. They did not give me that warning.

[Christine]

Another thing that this hotel has, by the way, the telephones in each of the room literally connects to an old 1930s operator switchboard.

[Em]

Like, that was the coolest thing. The phone rang and I saw go, click, click, click. Hello, front desk.

[Christine]

They do.

[Em]

It's happening.

[Christine]

They do a Demonstration for you when you check in. Like, oh, see, it really does go to the switchboard.

[Em]

Well, the creepy part was then the phone rang and she was like, hello, front desk, hello? And she's like, there's no one on the other end. And hung up. And I was like, why are you doing this to me? I'm so scared.

[Christine]

It's. It's such a weird old hotel.

[Em]

Yes, it was so weird. I'm so glad you figured out that it was in the book. I was feeling like a lunatic trying to figure out how I knew about this hotel.

[Christine]

Well, fun fact, it is on the national historic register. And do you know how it got the name Hotel Congress?

[Em]

I don't.

[Christine]

This makes me mad. Apparently it was named in a contest in 1918, which, like, I'm fine with the contest, but, like, why would you submit Hotel Congress? Like, what, you couldn't pick anything else? Like, that would be more fun.

[Em]

Well, so who.

[Christine]

Her name was Dorit Dinkle.

[Em]

Oh, she submitted that name?

[Christine]

Yeah, she submitted Hotel Congress for this contest one. I'm like, what were the other ones? Hotel Boring. Like, yeah.

[Em]

I mean, even that's more interesting, right? At least that has a story behind it.

[Christine]

Anyway. Dorit Dinkle, which I think is just the funniest name in the whole world. I mean, she obviously she was.

[Em]

Why didn't she name it the Dinkle Hotel, though? That.

[Christine]

Are you kidding me?

[Em]

That I would have voted for.

[Christine]

So she won it in a contest through the newspaper. This was in 1918 when it was being built.

[Em]

And she loved the contests were in the newspaper. It's just really. It just like, gets me.

[Christine]

Bring it back.

[Em]

Jacks me up. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Like, there's no. I just feel like in a. In a. A newspaper contest today, someone would submit, like, their kids suggestion and be like, hotel Dinosaur. Like, why would be, like, so much.

[Em]

More creative or like Hotel Covfefe or something? Like kind of like, trend funny and, you know.

[Christine]

Yeah, I agree, Dorit. And I'm hoping it's Doris. And it just got misspelled in the. In the source. But Ms. Dinkle won 15 worth of bonds, which at the time was 320. Just so you know.

[Em]

Okay, all right. I mean, it's not terrible, I guess.

[Christine]

In 19. In 1919, a year later, it was officially constructed. And per usual, this. It's a tale as old as time. It was created because a train depot had just been built running through the area. And per usual, a train depot was built here because the area had recently grown in their Cattle industry. And per usual, this train depot would be used by many businessmen coming through the area for that cattle industry. And a fancy hotel would be needed for those fancy businessmen when they got to their stop. And per usual. And per usual, the hotel was the fanciest hub of the time. And it became a community space in town. Everyone came here. And per usual, that included gangsters and gamblers and nefarious acts over time, the hooligans. I feel like at this point, after so many episodes covering haunted hotels, I should just tell you at the beginning, just the phrase the usual. And then like, we don't have to.

[Em]

Do this, you know, lady in white. Check. Yeah, go on.

[Christine]

So in that same way as every other hotel story, there was a lot of violence in the area because so many. It was meant for fancy business people. And eventually everyone's coming in, including the dregs of society, of course.

[Em]

No, no, no.

[Christine]

Which leads to many people dying here. So the same year that Hotel Congress was built, so was their little tavern bar area called the Tap House. Although at the time it was meant to be a tavern bar, but it was prohibition, so it became just a restaurant.

[Em]

Boring.

[Christine]

And then as soon as prohibition was. Was over, it became a bar. Like that day. I think it was the first bar to open in town.

[Em]

Remember that story where they said they were like, they had all. I think it was in Milwaukee. They had all the beer, like, ready to go. And then the second it was repealed.

[Christine]

They, like, they were like waiting for that green flag here.

[Em]

Like the Grinch with his giant sled, you know, 100. Here you go.

[Christine]

They were 100. Just waiting for the light to turn green. And so beautiful stuff. Day one, people were pouring in to drink.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

And so that does make it in town, the. Or maybe in all of Arizona, the longest continuously ran bar.

[Em]

Really?

[Christine]

I think so, yeah. It has. It's also. And also that means since at least.

[Em]

Above board, above board speakeasies aside.

[Christine]

And if you're counting just like the restaurant, which was probably there was. I'm sure there was a speakeasy under that restaurant. That means it's been continuously running almost every day since 1918.

[Em]

So, yeah, that's really wild.

[Christine]

Over a hundred years. The. Another fun fact is that I only saw this on one source. I don't know how true it is, but allegedly this area, or the Tap House was also a secret queer bar back in the day when people had to be on that cover.

[Em]

That's good to know. Like, cool.

[Christine]

Since 1919, when the hotel and The Tap Room opened. Ever since then, it has also opened a diner known as the. The cup, or what was it called?

[Em]

We were just there. We were just there. The Cup Cafe. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah, the one that I could not fit in, by the way.

[Em]

It was hilarious. They were like, get out. Get your suitcase out of the server.

[Christine]

Whatever. Every single spot I stood in was the wrong spot. And the. An employee would be like, I'm sorry. You're in my way. And then I'd have to move. And then another employee would go, I'm sorry. I'm trying to get past you. And then I go another. Oh, my God. Eventually, I was like, christine, eat your potatoes. I'll be. I'll meet you outside. I was trying.

[Em]

I had to scooch him into a. Into a. Scooch all the wet eggs into a Tupperware. Okay. It's a long story, guys. Anyway.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. So anyway, there is that little diner area. Apparently, there's a. The floor is made of pennies. I didn't see that when I went in there.

[Em]

I did not pick up on that. There's a lot to look at, though, in that hotel.

[Christine]

There is. So that's supposed to be, like, a 1940s kind of diner, then. They also have a jazz club. They have a. As you know, a nightclub called Club Congress.

[Em]

Yeah, it is the nightclub.

[Christine]

It's like a music venue hall. Fun fact. I think it was like, ZZ Topps guitarist said it was like, his favorite bar he's ever been to.

[Em]

Cool. Yeah. I wish we had, like, had time to go to the bar. I mean, I guess I experienced it from bedtime, but. Yeah, sounded like it was popping.

[Christine]

They didn't need us there. It was loud.

[Em]

They certainly didn't need us there now.

[Christine]

It was truly the loudest hotel I've ever experienced, and there's just no way around it. Unbelievable. I. And I'm not even trying to sound like a curmudgeon. Like, I can tolerate a lot of loud noise. This was like, actually, like, play music on your speakers. And if that was the loudness. It was in your room. It was.

[Em]

And I'll be honest. Like, I thought it was gonna be, like, a problem, and then I fell asleep so fast and slept through. Apparently, Em was at the door knocking, because they got the. They were trying to get Eva's room and knocked on mine by accident. Didn't even wake up. I mean, to be fair, the subwoofers were so loud.

[Christine]

Yeah. Could you have heard me?

[Em]

I couldn't have heard you knocking, but it's just about it, man. I was out cold.

[Christine]

Well, the nightclub. Oh, maybe this is the. Maybe this is just another superlative. Or maybe this is the one I was thinking. Club Congress, the music venue. Night hall. Yeah, Nightclub area. It is one of the longest running venues on the East Coast.

[Em]

Oh, okay. Whoa, wait, it's not on the east coast, is it?

[Christine]

Oh, my God. West coast, sorry. West of the Mississippi. What is wrong with me? Can you imagine? That would be crazy.

[Em]

Like, I feel like maybe I misunderstood.

[Christine]

No, no, West Coast. Thank you for clocking that before other people did.

[Em]

Yeah, it's the least I can do.

[Christine]

So because it is one of the longest running venues on the west coast, the governor heard about this and decided that they were going to come up with a celebration for this and they created Club Congress weekend where we. I feel like we were probably there for that fucking weekend.

[Em]

That must have been.

[Christine]

But that's when they just go fucking balls to the wall, I guess, at Club Congress. And then there's a whole other event that's three days.

[Em]

Like, yeah, right. You guys didn't even get the half of it. Like, try to get. Come here on Club Congress night and it's going to be. I can't imagine. I can't imagine.

[Christine]

There's also a three day, three night live music festival that they host there too, called Hoko Fest. Hoco for Hotel Congress. And I can't imagine three days and three nights. Like, the hotel has to be empty. Like the only reason people would stay there is because they're so drunk from partying downstairs.

[Em]

Which makes sense, I guess you would stay. You would want to stay there if you were there for the.

[Christine]

It is smart. It's like, it's certainly responsible drinking of like, I'm gonna get wasted and I'm just gonna like rent a bed upstairs. But nobody is there for like any other vacation.

[Em]

Oh, my Lord.

[Christine]

That weekend.

[Em]

It couldn't be. Or if they are, they're leaving really soon.

[Christine]

They're gonna get out 100, 100. There. They came with a Christine who's like, I don't know why I picked this one. I'm so sorry. Oops.

[Em]

I just thought it sounded cool.

[Christine]

So the hotel, like we said earlier, has maintained its original decoration since at least the 1930s. And Christine nailed it. That the hotel is themed. I don't know if it's like. I don't know if theme's the right word, but they stick true to. I kept describing it as like feeling like I was staying in a living history museum exhibit.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Because there, the bathroom and the showers are certainly like, the technology is up to date where like you're gonna like flush the toilet and it'll be fine. But it looks like of a completely bygone era. The sinks inside it look like. The rooms look like what I imagine someone from Newsies when they're like, I'm renting a room downtown.

[Em]

Yes, yes, yes. With the sink in the room and then like a shared bathroom, presumably. I mean, we didn't have shared bathrooms, but you could tell that it might have been that way in the past. And yeah, it was like, oh, the shower, I don't fit in it. I had to turn sideways and put my head in it. Like, it kind of just like they had to retroactively make it work as a modern day hotel.

[Christine]

Literally the beds are, were made of iron. It was like all squeaky and old sounding. They had, they didn't have TVs in there, but they literally had vintage radios for you to listen to. They like, it just felt like you were sitting in a room in the 1940s. It was a very cool feeling. I actually was so lucky that I came in early because I just, just felt like a kid again because back in the 90s, I used to just lie in my bed and listen to the radio. There was nothing else to do back then. But I, as soon as I went in there, I just turned the radio on and just lied on that iron bed and washed my hands in that tiny little sink and I went, okay, well, here I am. But anyway, just to give you the vibe of the room, everything is very old school, including how you get to your room. Because I asked if there was an elevator for my heavy ass bag and their exact words were, it burned down in a fire back in 1934.

[Em]

We, we just haven't gotten around to it yet in the past 90 years.

[Christine]

Like, literally everyone had to. I'm not trying to sound like a diva here, but everyone had to manually carry and we like, we came with like tour stuff. Yeah.

[Em]

Like, again, I feel that maybe that was my bad, but like the way.

[Christine]

That they responded, they could have just said, oh, sorry we don't have an elevator, or oh, sorry we're not. Were not accessible. Accessibility friendly. They could have said anything else, but he said it as if he was setting up a story and he was like, it burned down in 1934. And I was like, well then what do I do? He was like, you pick it up and you carry it.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah, it was pretty wild.

[Christine]

So the fire let's talk about it. The fire from 1934, the one that burnt this goddamn elevator down. One source says it was a lit cigarette on a tablecloth that caused it. I don't totally know, but then I heard that it was a fire that started in the basement, which is where they store things like tablecloths. Maybe someone was on a break and.

[Em]

True. And just everyone's.

[Christine]

Everyone's lighting cigarettes in the sixth in the 30s. So yeah, it's apparently started in the basement, went all the way up. And the third floor was the one that was like fully damaged. And may she rest in peace. The elevator. So when.

[Em]

Yeah, really we were. We missed her that trip.

[Christine]

I thought of her fondly. Yeah. The third floor was never rebuilt. It was just completely incinerated. And they just decided to build from the second floor down and redo everything.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

So by doing this though, they ended up losing half their rooms because there was 40 rooms on each floor. So they ended up going from 80 rooms to 40 rooms by only keeping the first and second floor.

[Em]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Christine]

And they were like, well, if we lose half of our rooms, we're losing half of our rates. And so how are we going to make the money back? So to keep the hotel afloat, that's why they opened up all these other ventures like the jazz club and the music hall and the diner. It was all just so they can make money in different ways.

[Em]

To diversify.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, to diversify their portfolio, if you will. And I mean, it worked. It's literally still working today. But it was. If you're wondering why this place wears so many hats, it's because they were trying to just break even by losing 40 of their rooms.

[Em]

I get it.

[Christine]

Everyone survived this fire. For people wondering because all of them had big ass windows they could climb out of. And they climbed right down the fire. Fire ladders. But here's where it gets interesting is this fire also led to one of the most notable pieces of history at this hotel. Because that night of the fire in 1934, there were some important guests here, including bank robber John Dillinger and his and his gang laying low from a robber.

[Em]

See, that's what you said. Like I just booked a room. You know, I booked a room, tied up my horse. Like that is the exact vibe of this place.

[Christine]

I would like to know what rooms they were in. Like, was I in a room that John Dillager has now?

[Em]

That would be cool. I wonder if those are the haunted ones, though. Maybe not. I don't know. No, they're not.

[Christine]

Oh, then they're certainly not mentioned. Maybe they were. Maybe they were in rooms on the third floor and they're just burnt away.

[Em]

That's true, actually. Yeah, good point. No, they could have been above us.

[Christine]

Yeah, one could have been in the elevator. Someone had to be in there at some point.

[Em]

Oh, that stinks.

[Christine]

So, okay, they were trying to be discreet here because apparently the robbery was. Was on the east coast. That's how I had east coast in my notes. And they were like, let's go to this tiny little podunk town in Tucson, Arizona. I love that they went to, like, the most. Just hop and happen in place. Yeah.

[Em]

For the big music festival.

[Christine]

Yeah, right. Hoko Fest is this weekend. So they. They decided they were gonna lay low, go to this hotel, hide out while people. While the dust settled on this bank robbery. They did. And then, of course, on that night, a fire happens. They. Nobody knew who they were because they came in under different names. But firefighters remember a group of men being really hesitant to leave and really reluctant about Leap. About getting out of the building. But the firefighters were like, it's on fire. Get out of here.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you shady.

[Christine]

So in evacuating, they had to abandon their belongings, which was probably all the goods that they had just robbed a bank of. So they were acting really suspicious and paranoid about their belongings in the room. And while waiting outside, one source said in their underwear, which I love.

[Em]

Oh, my God, I love that. That's the kind of detail we need, people. Journalists.

[Christine]

Thank you. Although I. I doubt it, because if they were that hesitant, reluctant, how. How long did they have to react? Is my question. Like, was this fire not moving that fast?

[Em]

Good question. Like, were they, like, did they have time to, like, grab a few things?

[Christine]

Like.

[Em]

And they grabbed their. Their gun instead of their. Under their pants? I don't know.

[Christine]

I don't know. At any rate, at some point, they were outside and they were acting really fishy, and they kept bugging the firefighters to, like, go get their stuff or like, hey, can you go check on my belongings?

[Em]

So suspicious. You guys, like, cool it.

[Christine]

They knew how to lay low with their mouths shut. But when. Yeah, they were pretty bad at their job.

[Em]

Seems like it.

[Christine]

So they go up to some of the firefighters and say, like. Like, I really want you to take care of the suitcase in there. And I'm sure they said it like mobsters. You're like, I want you to do me a favor.

[Em]

Take care of something.

[Christine]

They decide that they're going to Basically, slip them a five and be like, do me the solid. Go get my bags. They really slip them a 12, which in today's money is. In today's money, it's about 280, 300.

[Em]

Okay. All right. It's a decent chunk of change, I guess, depending on what you're asking.

[Christine]

But it is silly to be, like, 12. You can just give me a tenor.

[Em]

Or like, 12 is a wild choice. I feel like it was 10. And then the guy was like, not enough. And they're like, I feel like it's.

[Christine]

Us using a valet where, like, all three of us are just trying to find.

[Em]

Exactly. It felt like scrounging for the extra couple bucks.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. And one of them was like, I have another dollar. I have two. Can I. I'll contribute that. So anyway, they hand the firefighters 12 bucks. The firefighters go get their bag. Bags. I don't know if they looked in the bags or if one was accidentally open. I don't know. But at some point, the firefighters looked inside the bag on their way down, and this is what they found in there. Several guns, several grenades, several bulletproof vests, several bottles of alcohol, which I think. I don't know if this was during prohibition or not, but interesting to note around. We don't know. Around $40,000 in cash.

[Em]

And then they gave him a 12. Yeah, I know.

[Christine]

I'd be like, I'm getting. I'm taking this of gold, actually. Thank you.

[Em]

Seriously, this is my new cut. Thanks.

[Christine]

One source said there were also notes on the robbery itself. And another source said they didn't grab.

[Em]

That on their way out.

[Christine]

Oh, it's just like, all of them having, like, a yearbook photo in front of the bank they robbed. It's like.

[Em]

Yep, yep. It feels. It feels wrong. Oh, no.

[Christine]

So once our said there was notes on the actual robbery. Another source said that in this bag was a fucking skeleton's hand and a glass eyeball.

[Em]

They're like, that's actually something different. That has nothing to do with the rubber.

[Christine]

That's actually a totally different story.

[Em]

Yeah, that's. Sorry, That's. That's something from home. Don't worry about it. It's personal.

[Christine]

So the firefighters were obviously like, what the. And one of them would have been in. And that's why we drink girly. Because he read True Detective magazine and loved true crime.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And he squinted at them after enough suspicious things happened, and he was like, I recognize these people. And then he realized they were John Dillinger's gang.

[Em]

Oh, my God. That. That moment when you're like, oh, can.

[Christine]

You imagine being a fan of true crime? And then you solve a crime. You're like.

[Em]

You're just like standing there and you're like, wait a minute. It's happening. It's happening.

[Christine]

So he told the cops the caps. Caps. Who am I?

[Em]

He told the caps.

[Christine]

He told the coppers wicked caps. So told the cops. The cops ended up capturing them elsewhere. John Dillager escapes again. And then, of course, he dies in Chicago. But the Hotel Congress now remembers this event of, like, John Dillinger escaping their hotel by celebrating. Not just Hoko Fest, my friend, not just Club Congress weekend, but they also have Dillinger Days festival where they do reenactments of the escape and probably without fire reenactments. And they have a vintage car show, too. So It's a whole 1940s day.

[Em]

That's really cool.

[Christine]

I'll tell you one thing about this hotel that they don't play with. And that's an event it seems like they've got, which I love on every day of the calendar.

[Em]

They're like, this is a holiday. And I really approve that. As someone who's always looking for more holidays, that's. It's very exciting.

[Christine]

They also host sev. I mean, when I say they host several events. While we were there, I saw a list of like 20 events happening. Yeah, we were going to be there for two days.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

They don't around. And I guess if you got five different parts of the building doing different businesses, you can always have an event, at least one of them. But during Halloween, especially because they lean into the ghosts. I mean, they literally were telling Eva and Christine about the ghosts when they checked in.

[Em]

Yeah, they were like, we have them labeled. We were like, okay. During. None of them were available, though, which sucked.

[Christine]

During Halloween, they host Nightmare on Congress street, which is apparently the town's biggest Halloween block party. And they also host during October. This is a quote, authentic live recreations of Victorian era theatrical seances. And the only third room to survive the third floor room to survive the fire.

[Em]

What is it up in the sky?

[Christine]

Yeah, I guess. Is it just like the chimney? I don't know. The irony of it. On the roof.

[Em]

It's just on the roof.

[Christine]

But apparently they do old school 1800s seances. That's crazy. How Cool.

[Em]

Cool.

[Christine]

And like I said, they're very open about the hotel being haunted. They literally told Eva, oh, if you want to see a ghost here, just ask. Which is great.

[Em]

Literally said that. They go, oh, well. I said, oh, bummer. There's no haunted rooms available. And the woman goes, oh, well, you know, all you have to do is say, I'm ready to see you.

[Christine]

And I was like, okay, I'll never say those words. I'll never say.

[Em]

Never mind, Never mind. I did say those words on the stairs and I saw nothing, so.

[Christine]

Well, maybe they don't like you.

[Em]

For me, maybe not.

[Christine]

Well, so when you think about the time that this building has been here since 1918, there have been many deaths here, including gangster violence. Also, I didn't mention this earlier, but there are allegedly like the old tunnels under this property of the city. So a lot of dark dealings happened there. There were talks of maybe people being kidnapped down there or being used for sex work, unfortunately, being trafficked. So there's just a lot of negative heavy energy. Plus that one fire in 1934. But there were other multiple fires. There were many suicides here. Just. It's a. And it was just a heavy. A high traffic energy space when it was like the hub of the town too. So a lot of reasons for it to be haunted. There are four main haunted rooms in the hotel. Although I have a fifth bonus room for you.

[Em]

Is it the one on the roof?

[Christine]

Roof? No. I actually, I would now like to look at a map because what the was.

[Em]

Where is that room?

[Christine]

It's like, I thought it all burned away. Where are we? Is it just the elevator shaft that goes.

[Em]

Yeah, right. You just climb the. The fire escape. I don't know.

[Christine]

Okay, so there are four main haunted rooms in this hotel. Although there is a fifth bonus room, which I'll get to in a second. But the first haunted room there that probably had a little ghosty icon on the map you saw at the hotel is 2:12. Apparently in this room, guests will lock their doors and it will unlock itself and open anyway. So even if you lock the door, you'll look over and then the door has opened itself.

[Em]

Really one of the worst in a hotel, truly.

[Christine]

Or they will leave it open because there have been people who are fed up and they're like, fine, we'll keep it open. And then the door will slam shut by itself.

[Em]

Oh, great. So it's like just whatever you don't want.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similarly, in 219, which, this is the bonus room, but we're going to come back to it. You'll see why it's a bonus later. 219, there's not a lot to be said, but it. It gets mentioned as. As like a blip on one of the sources. And it says that there's a ghost here who. Just like how in 212, they will lock and unlock the doors, and 219, they will only un. They will only lock the bathroom door, and they'll lock it from the inside so you can't get in to the bathroom.

[Em]

Oh, that would stink.

[Christine]

Staff will apparently have to take the door off its hinges to get back in there, because, as we said, it's like skeleton keys and shit. Like, it's. You can't.

[Em]

Oh, so you have to unscrew the whole. Oh, my.

[Christine]

You take the whole door off to be able to unlock it from the inside with the door back on.

[Em]

Miserable.

[Christine]

So if you have IBS, don't stay in. 219.

[Em]

Well, good thing I figured this out after we left.

[Christine]

You did sleep two rooms away.

[Em]

I did.

[Christine]

That's true, actually, if we're doing the hotel thing where it's odd numbers. You shared a wall with 219. 217.

[Em]

Eva was 217. I was 216.

[Christine]

Oh, so Eva shared a room, a wall with two.

[Em]

I think it went one by one because there weren't any across the hall.

[Christine]

Oh, all right.

[Em]

Whatever.

[Christine]

You were.

[Em]

Three doors.

[Christine]

Okay, so that's 219, the bathroom one. Well, we'll get back to that, though.

[Em]

But.

[Christine]

So the main ones are 212, where the doors are all opening and unlocking themselves, and 214, another one you were next to that one.

[Em]

I was very close to, yes.

[Christine]

People will say that there's a man in a pinstriped suit and top hat that appears in this room.

[Em]

No.

[Christine]

What's it like to know, you know, what was there about 10ft away from that?

[Em]

Well, you know what was in there? These two dogs that barked constantly. Those dogs were in that room, maybe.

[Christine]

I love them.

[Em]

I have no problem with them, but they were barking up a storm. And I was like, oh, what do they see?

[Christine]

Maybe they saw. They saw him. I don't know.

[Em]

Could be.

[Christine]

They say that this guy was either a gangster or that he was killed by gangsters during, like, a bad poker play. But apparently he's in a seersucker pinstripe suit, sometimes a top hat. He is also known to, quote, walk through the lobby and stick his head into the office door to, like, I guess, look at people.

[Em]

Oh, to peek in. Yeah. I don't like it.

[Christine]

Maybe related to the fact that he is said to be a victim of gangster violence. But people in 214 also see a bloody handprint in there. I wonder if the handprint moves around, like, Blue's Clues? Or is it just.

[Em]

I mean, could be, like. Then it would be more like, what is it trying to tell me? You know? But I would imagine it's on one spot, but maybe not.

[Christine]

You know what? Let's do the opposite of having a kid's scary story hour, and let's do a really scary story hour, and we could do. We could do Blue's Clues, but instead of the blue paws, it's all bloody hands.

[Em]

So now instead of a children's show.

[Christine]

Now we're solving a crime.

[Em]

It's now a children's show for adults. Like, we're now making it. We're looping too far and going into children's content. That's too extreme for children.

[Christine]

It's like a murder mystery. But it's like, where does the bloody paw print hint?

[Em]

I mean, it does feel right for millennials at least. You know, like, they. We. It. The format might really work.

[Christine]

Well, here's my favorite thing about Pinstripe Suitman. You're gonna love this.

[Em]

I don't love it. I already. I don't.

[Christine]

No, he. You are gonna like this. He hates the vacuum cleaner.

[Em]

Oh, me too.

[Christine]

And so he will literally constantly unplug it whenever they have to vacuum his room.

[Em]

Wait, dogs. Like, dogs hate vacuums, too. Maybe they were all hanging out in there.

[Christine]

Maybe they were just all covering their.

[Em]

Ears, barking at the vacuum.

[Christine]

Apparently, the only way they can vacuum in that room is if they play 1920s music to appease him. But how can you hear it over the vacuum?

[Em]

God. Good point.

[Christine]

The next big room is. There's two rooms left. That was so 212, 214. Those are the two big ones. And then the next two big ones are 220 and 242. You don't have to know this, but in case other people.

[Em]

I feel like it's going to be a pop quiz.

[Christine]

220. I think 220 is my favorite. 220 is. There was a World War II veteran who moved in in the 60s, and he lived here for the rest of his life for, like, 30 years.

[Em]

Rented a room. Room.

[Christine]

I rented a room down. Down in the city, down south. His name was. His name was Vince, and he ended up, I think, dying of a heart attack later. Although one source literally said he died from a bobcat in the alley under a full moon.

[Em]

That was.

[Christine]

Was that.

[Em]

That was him who said that. There's no way in my. In the goddamn world. That wasn't something he said. When I. When I go Tell my friends and family this is how I went out.

[Christine]

You know, Christine, if I die in a boring way, can you please tell people it was a bobcat in the alley under a full moon, literally.

[Em]

Obviously there was. There's nothing I'd rather be responsible for than telling some sort of legend and lore about how you go out.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Em]

Under the moonlight. I'm in.

[Christine]

Here's why I like Vince so much. Every single day he would. Because he lived there for 30 years, he would go down to the cafe, the one pet bobcat cat, see his hob cat, give him a pet, and he would go get a cup of coffee, a bagel and a butter knife, and he'd bring it to his room every day. He would return the plate that the bagel was sitting on and the coffee cup, but he would never return the butter knife.

[Em]

Oh, I remember this. Didn't you talk about this in your book?

[Christine]

This was the part in mine. Yes. This was the part where I was like, I've covered this. Why doesn't it say.

[Em]

And then I remember this.

[Christine]

And then I was getting. Not actually, but for the theatrics. I was getting mad at Megan because I was like, why isn't it list in our episode list on our website, like where what the.

[Em]

Someone find it obviously effect.

[Christine]

Obviously I covered this. Like I remember butter knives being a thing and it was because of the stupid book. So.

[Em]

Well, I also remember it and I also lost my mind. So.

[Christine]

So he would never return his butter knives. And part of me is like, why is a human being keeping all these knives? Probably knives.

[Em]

Yes, it is this.

[Christine]

Apparently he would keep them around as like multi tools for like to screw things in or like to pry things off.

[Em]

Like fix to open the bathroom door when it gets locked.

[Christine]

Probably. I imagine if he was there for 30 years, he probably also saw the.

[Em]

Ghost tricks of the trade, how to. How to deal with them.

[Christine]

Yeah, the lasagna layers of ghosts always gets me when, like someone knew it was haunted and then becomes a ghost themselves. It always trips me up.

[Em]

Agreed.

[Christine]

But so anyway, he always kept the butter knives ever since he died. Housekeepers regularly find butter knives in odd places around the hotel.

[Em]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Christine]

Which like, part of me is like, did he stockpile like 800 of them and now they're all finally being found or is.

[Em]

Oh, good point.

[Christine]

Is he stealing new ones and then showing them off?

[Em]

Right. Like are they reappearing? Like right. Yeah. Oh, I wonder. That's kind of cool though, if you like didn't know and then you kept finding knives. And then your co worker was like.

[Christine]

Oh, you don't know about Vince the knife guy. Yeah, he also likes to move people's things and prank them. He likes to sit at the bar still. People will still see him sitting at the bar. And he will also kind of like vacuum guy. He will mess with the jukebox based on if he likes the song or not.

[Em]

Oh, okay. Well, that makes me nervous. I feel like that's a lot of pressure.

[Christine]

He'll just, like, crank the volume up.

[Em]

Right. And you're just losing your money, like.

[Christine]

Okay, that's true. A jukebox one these days, it's like 25, 000.

[Em]

Does he think of Icona Pop over and over and over again.

[Christine]

I mean, Vince, couldn't you turn that down?

[Em]

J, Seriously, you couldn't be happy. I'm sure he's not happy with that.

[Christine]

Well, the last room, probably, definitely the most haunted room is 242, the one that I pointed out to you and I said, this is the really haunted one. I took a picture of it. So we can put that up. Anyone could Google it. But if you'd like my picture of it, we will put that up. Room 242. It is the most haunted room. There was a woman. They always frame it as. She was struggling in her marriage. Girl was also struggling with, like, severe mental health problems. She.

[Em]

Yeah, well, so. Right.

[Christine]

But she's a married woman first. Of course. Of course. Maybe her marriage was part of it, but she was having, like.

[Em]

I mean, I imagine it makes the rest of your life very difficult if you already have severe mental health.

[Christine]

Yeah. I don't know what came first, but she was struggling. That's all it needs to. That's all we need to know. She ended up deciding that life was not worth living, and she apparently started acting weird in the hotel and. And so concerned that the staff were like, we need to call the police. The police show up. There seems to be a kerfuffle where they find her locked in the bathroom with a gun, and she ends up dying by suicide.

[Em]

No.

[Christine]

I don't know how true it is now, but apparently the bullet hole is still there. And there are pictures on Google of people who have taken pictures of the bullet hole.

[Em]

Oh, wow.

[Christine]

Taken like, it's still a very clear bullet hole.

[Em]

Upsetting.

[Christine]

Yeah. But if you're, like, weirdly into paranormal and you forget the empathy side of things, then I guess there's that fun fact for you. I don't know, but it would be too Weird for me, anyway, so she. She died by suicide.

[Em]

There.

[Christine]

There were a lot of people who died by suicide, but I think because hers is, like, such a traumatic story, hers is now the most popular day.

[Em]

It's so tragic.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's tragic, not traumatic. Sorry. Yeah, well, both.

[Em]

Well, both. Yeah.

[Christine]

So guests sometimes feel someone watching them when they sleep in there. People feel someone sitting on the bed. Some people say that they feel her whisk or feel her touching them and hear her whispering to them in bed.

[Em]

Oh, no.

[Christine]

Guests will wake up from nightmares and see someone standing over them. They'll feel a weird heaviness in the room. Some will literally feel someone laying in bed. Bed with them. So, you know, that blanket's moving all the time in there.

[Em]

That's terrifying. Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, one thing that terrifies me about a hotel room is, like, is the blanket moving by itself?

[Em]

You know that because it feels so invasive, right? Like, I don't know, it feels like you're. You're already kind of. You're staying in someone else's space. It feels like already. And then to have somebody, like, pulling off your blanket. Yeah, forget it.

[Christine]

There are so many times in hotel rooms. I'll go, you can do whatever you want. Don't. Don't touch, please.

[Em]

Yeah, don't.

[Christine]

Guess. Will also feel cold spots in here. They'll see a woman, apparently in white. She's always gotta be in fucking white.

[Em]

I knew it.

[Christine]

People will see a dark, cloudy shadow where she died in the bathroom. The SLS or stick figure camera has caught things in here. When people have investigated, people will feel something grab them. They'll see mists in the hall. They'll see. Oh, oh. Also in the hotel, there's. Oh, not just a woman in white. There's a woman in black on the stairs, which is where you were asking to see someone.

[Em]

1. Oh, I was, Yeah. I did not see a woman in black.

[Christine]

No, a woman in black. They think she was, like, a supervisor because she apparently stares at the people in the lobby and they say, oh, she's still managing them. But part of me is like, maybe she was a Karen who's like, just, like, being mean and critical of them.

[Em]

Maybe she's mean. She's just nosy and doesn't want to go down the stairs yet apparent.

[Christine]

Yeah, she's like, I just got all the way up here.

[Em]

She's just looking down.

[Christine]

She apparently smells like roses, which is nice.

[Em]

Oh, my. Okay.

[Christine]

Okay. People hear voices throughout this hotel. They hear knocking throughout the hotel. They'll see children in the halls when children aren't there, they'll see flickering lights, apparitions appear and disappear. Guests will see a phantom bellboy. They'll see a maid cleaning. They'll see there's another employee in the kitchen.

[Em]

I always wanted to see a phantom bellboy cuz that feels less upsetting to me than a lot of other like characters at a hotel. Cuz a bellboy, it's like, even if he's, he's just like just doing his job from the past, you know? Know.

[Christine]

Yeah. And it's like, you don't even want to mess with me, you just want to mess with my luggage. And if I throw you a $5 bill, you're going to be happy and you're not going to.

[Em]

Exactly. And you're going to be like, this is $8,000 cuz you're from a different time. So it's going to be. I'm just going to look really hustle.

[Christine]

I just need to flip you a nickel and go. Here you go, sport.

[Em]

Yeah. Find it behind your ear.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

No wonder we never see ghosts. They're probably like, I literally don't have time for.

[Christine]

You're like, I actually don't even want a nickel, thank you.

[Em]

Like actually, can you get away from my face? Thank you.

[Christine]

There's another employee people see in the kitchen who always disappears. Some people have said that they literally talk to a woman who works there and then they can't find her and they find out she's never been there. Some guests have found their room tidied for no reason. And some have literally looked out the window and seen old time, old town Tucson with horse and buggies.

[Em]

That's my dream, Em. That's my dream. Forget the bellboy.

[Christine]

It always freaks me out when are like, I heard horses like clopping on the gravel.

[Em]

My favorites. It's like a time slip. Oh, I love it, I love it, I love it.

[Christine]

Most if not all staff members have experiences here and many guests have left early because it was so scary for them. The second floor in particular is the most haunted because that's where all the rooms are. So that has like the added layer of all that history and energy. The best story I found online about hotel Congress though was in the 90s. This guy came in really late looking for a room. He brought his own bottle of alcohol and I think he just wanted to drink it. But then they were like, you can't actually. You can't bring your own alcohol in unless you're staying here and you drink it in your Own room. He was like, fine, I'll give me a room. He signs in on like this little like card he like, or like a piece of paperwork. He signs in and he pays them in old timey money. They're like, this is weird. I don't know why in that moment they didn't go, we don't accept this money.

[Em]

Yeah. I'm like, they're like Visa, MasterCard, wa. That.

[Christine]

Yeah, you can't pay for your room.

[Em]

Into balloons, rubies.

[Christine]

Wait a minute, Ruby.

[Em]

Actually, I will take that, thank you.

[Christine]

So he checks in, he gives them what looks like old timey money, but then they just let him up in the room. They're apparently like all around the same age, I guess, and they're all kind of vibing with each other. So the guy says, hey, when you guys get off your shift, you guys can come out to my room. We'll all get like up together. And they're like, hell yeah. These were obviously 20 year old employees.

[Em]

I was like, really? They're like, let's go to the strange man's room to drink. Okay, sure.

[Christine]

So they all do a little drinking and at some point he says other things.

[Em]

I probably.

[Christine]

He says, oh, you know, like, I'm going to go to the bathroom real quick. So, you know, get out of my room while I go to the bathroom. But then when I'm done, you guys can come back and we'll keep drinking. So when the employees come back, apparently he's gone. And all of the drinks they've been. All the cups they've been drinking out of are cleaned and as if completely untouched.

[Em]

The.

[Christine]

The, the trash can is empty. The bottle of rum is gone. He's gone. It looks like nobody has been in there the entire time.

[Em]

Yuck.

[Christine]

And so they go downstairs and like, hey, that guy check out. And the desk clerk is like, I don't know who you're talking about. I haven't seen anyone all night. And when they look at the paperwork that the guy signed, it's empty and his old timey money is gone. So it's like they just had like this weird hallucination.

[Em]

Okay. So. Yeah, because also then I'm like, so do they feel tipsy at all? Like, did, did the alcohol leave their system already? Like it just vanished, you know? Know.

[Christine]

Also, part of me is like, so were you just up there like talking.

[Em]

To yourself and drinking out of empty cups? Like, how creepy.

[Christine]

Like, were you miming in an empty room?

[Em]

Oh. And talking to someone who's not there? Oh.

[Christine]

Which feels a Little possessiony.

[Em]

It does. It feels very creepy.

[Christine]

So I say that to tell you that the only thing I have left to tell you is that there is an episode of GA where they very recently went to Congress Hotel. It was season 28, episode 4.

[Em]

28.

[Christine]

I know. And fun fact, when this episode came out, the hotel Congress had a watch party in the hotel.

[Em]

Oh, even better.

[Christine]

You they'll always find an event. They always got a reason.

[Em]

A watch party. That's so fun to, to sit to watch your own like workplace or whatever. Be on an episode of Ghost Adventures and get to watch it with all your co workers. Like that is so cool.

[Christine]

You know that Club Congress that night was playing Rhonda. Holy shit. They were playing Immortal Portal.

[Em]

Immortal Port. Oh my God.

[Christine]

So here's why I mentioned that fifth bonus room. The one where the bathroom door keeps locking and they have to take the door off the hinges. That doesn't get mentioned room. That room gets mentioned but no one mentions the bathroom or the door getting taken off the hinge. Even though that was the only. I only saw one source about that room at all. And it was the bathroom and it was a one liner and that was it. However, Even though there's four other major haunted rooms and 219 is like was like a throwaway line on one source I saw and barely consider a haunted room. Based on my notes, Ghost Adventures focuses pretty much solely on 219 weird. I feel like their researcher saw that one line on that one website and went, this is the most haunted room. We have to go there.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And ignored all the main ones, like the one with like the pinstripes and all this.

[Em]

It wasn't even like the employees saying, hey, this is the room you got to be in.

[Christine]

Well, it was an assistant bar manager who told them that this is the most haunted room room and people get possessed here all the time.

[Em]

Oh God. So I hate this.

[Christine]

And that they regularly have to call 91 1. What the is 911 gonna do?

[Em]

I'm so sorry. What?

[Christine]

So I, I, maybe it's, maybe it's true and there's just not a goddamn source any anywhere on the Internet about this. But maybe also this guy was a Zach fan and just kind of said something. I don't know. I don't know.

[Em]

Maybe they wanted like a unique storyline. You know, sometimes it feels like they are like looking for their own angle so that nobody else gets to say the same. Like, you know, even if it's like fudging the truth.

[Christine]

Well, so this bar manager Told them, yeah. So a couple was staying here, and only the wife spoke English. And then she came down in the middle of the night, panicked. And they were saying, in 219, this obscure room I'm claiming to be haunted. And she came down and she said, something's wrong with my husband. He's speaking perfect English in a woman's voice, and he doesn't speak English in a woman's voice, too. That is creepy.

[Em]

Terrible.

[Christine]

But also, like, why. Why is that not the headline on every single goddamn source about this place?

[Em]

You know, maybe because it's a new story. I don't know. Maybe tell it on the tours, and it just hasn't reached the Internet yet. The blog Sphere.

[Christine]

Well, apparently they're one of many, and it is very regular that people get possessed in here. Then, of course, they tell Zach about the fire and the Dillager gang. And right after, the guide says, oh, yeah, they were trying to keep a low profile. That's why here, of course, Zachary theorizes that the gang members set the fire themselves to burn bodies that they had as evidence.

[Em]

Okay, he's really lost it. I mean, sometimes I'm like, okay, I get the angle. This. This one. No. Oh, I have a quick update about Zachary, because I was recognized at the hot stuff slot machine. Long story as to why I don't have the tattoo yet. I'm gonna get it. Don't worry. But it's been delayed. But I was sitting at the, like, hot one slot machine and. Or hot stuff slot machine, and this person comes up, and they're like, oh, my gosh. Hi. Like, I'm not able to make it to the show, but we're here for my husband's work, and we went to the Zach Bagans Museum, and I was like, oh, really? Like, how. How is it since I went, you know, back in 2017? And she goes, well, he already has a video up saying that Aaron's hitman situation was due to, like, a possession or a demonic interference. And he literally has already put in the museum, apparently, a thing that says, right after I touch the Dybbuk box. Aaron's wife was arrested for trying to kill him. And it's like, oh, my God. Wait, why does have to do with you touching?

[Christine]

He's like, is Aaron his friend in real life anymore? Like, that's.

[Em]

I don't know. He apparently said, like, my producer, Aaron found out after I touched the Divik box. So it's like, is it. Are you saying it's your fault? Is that what you were.

[Christine]

Aaron I'd be like, can you back up for, like, a second, please?

[Em]

Give me a month to grieve this horrible situation.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

I. Like, I heard that. And I went, thank God somebody was able to check, because I was sure of it. But they. They're very. They've. They hold up. They hold their stuff close.

[Christine]

Stands true.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Well, thanks, everyone, for that update. That's.

[Em]

That's. Yeah.

[Christine]

And so sorry for your tattoo that it will be on the way eventually.

[Em]

She was in a car accident that morning. And then I said, oh, my God.

[Christine]

It was right when Zach touched the dybbuk box.

[Em]

Yeah, right. That's true. You're right. And I said, like, oh, no worries.

[Christine]

Like.

[Em]

And they said, I know you traveled for this appointment, so we'll try to reschedule. And I said, like, well, I live in Cincinnati. And they said, oh, well, is that anywhere near Northern Kentucky? Because she's doing a Northern Kentucky tour tour in August. And I was like, they're like, are you near Covington? And I'm like, yeah, only, like, five minutes. That's so weird. Anyway, so we're rescheduling, but a lot of weird synchronicities around it.

[Christine]

It's very weird.

[Em]

Anyway.

[Christine]

Ghosts. Yes. So the only room that they do pay attention to that I mentioned is 242, where the woman died by suicide. Of course, that's the only room they pay attention to. Um, and weirdly, as they're doing an interview about that room, a light turns off by itself. He says he feels weird. He gets up and walks away. He's having a whole moment about it, and at the same time, there's like, I guess a black shadow that was caught on camera next to him. So he, of course, runs with that. But they try going into room 242. He says he feels like he got pushed. He feels lightheaded. He walks out again. He does a lot of walking out.

[Em]

Of rooms that feels already lightheaded, like he was just really planning for a moody evening.

[Christine]

He. Yeah, but I will say in the next spirit box session in that room where they're like, did you push Zach? And can. Can we talk to you later? They asked, can we talk to the ghosts later tonight? And the spirit box, very clearly, like, as clearly as we speak, says, no, leave. Oh, terrifying. Later, when talking about what's happened so far, and then they mentioned, like, oh, that light turned off earlier as they're talking about that, another light turns. It actually is kind of creepy.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And then they talk about EVPs that they've gotten one of the EVPs is super creepy, where they get a woman saying, sitting on. As they're asking, what are you sitting on? And then another voice comes through and says, bed. I'm sitting and it's very clear. And it's at the same time where they're using the thermal camera and they actually do get something sitting on the bed. It's very. It is actually, actually creepy.

[Em]

Yeah, it sounds creepy.

[Christine]

The next one I actually want to show you, so I'm going to send you the link to the episode.

[Em]

Lucky me.

[Christine]

And hopefully that worked. But I'm going to tell you this too. I'm going to tell you the time code.

[Em]

Okay, Got it.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

It's the time code.

[Christine]

So. Well, to tell you, to give you a context later, Zach hears footsteps, steps, and then he go. He looks out into the hallway and he goes, hello. And you can very clearly hear someone say, hello back. 2740.

[Em]

Yako. All right, let's find it. 2740. We probably can't play this, right?

[Christine]

I don't know. But I would like your reaction anyway.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Like, it's so obviously someone else going.

[Em]

It sounded like me. B. Hello?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Em]

What the. That sounded like a producer or something. You know, it sounded like a person.

[Christine]

But then they show you the cameras, like during that time and no one is there.

[Em]

That's actually really upsetting.

[Christine]

He really goes, hello. And then you hear hello.

[Em]

One more time. Hello. The hello. And it's a. It's a very high. It's a much higher pitch voice. It's not, not like some sort of repetition of his.

[Christine]

It's like, no.

[Em]

Hello. He goes like, hello. And then you hear like, hello. Like totally different intonation. Oh, yuck.

[Christine]

Even creepier. They then decide, like, they're gonna go investigate that. So they leave the room they were sitting in. And when they. As they leave, like their foot leaves the doorway, the lights turn on in the room by themselves. And them. Them freaking out about it is so funny.

[Em]

It's exactly what we were being, you know, like. Like shit's actually happening. Because they actually get really scared and you're like, yes. Okay. They're not playing. They're not with us right now. That actually did scare them.

[Christine]

Later on in that same room where the light turns on by itself, they hear a thud and they go back and they realize that, as you and I can attest, because we were just there, they have like a box, like a welcome box with like some snacks or something for a piece of like a roll of like lifesavers or mints or something. Lifted itself out of the box and threw itself onto the floor.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

They're like, what's that sound? I just heard something thud. And then they find candy on the floor. That was definitely just in the basket.

[Em]

Ew. I wonder what that's about.

[Christine]

Like, it was almost like to get their attention maybe.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

Weird.

[Christine]

But some other things happen. They find things on the sls. I did want to let you know though, that at the very end, the room that allegedly there's a lot of possessions in. Zachary ends the show by. By going in there, sitting on the bed, using a crucifix and trying to cast out the spirits. While he's doing it. While he's doing that, there are EVPs of voices talking through it. So I like that they're unbothered completely.

[Em]

They were like, actually, can you keep it down?

[Christine]

That is Hotel Congress. I'm sorry that was so long.

[Em]

But I cannot believe you did the notes while staying there. That makes it so much more special. Did you watch the Ghost Adventures episode while you stayed there?

[Christine]

Yeah, it was actually nightmare fuel because it was actually scary and it happened like, in the hall.

[Em]

Yeah, they're not often, like, actually scary, so that's something. Wow.

[Christine]

Good job.

[Em]

I feel like that was like the most timely episode we've ever done. You know, besides the hitman situation that Zach caused with the Divock box.

[Christine]

That's true. That's true. Summer is just around the corner and the folks at Mint Mobile have a hot spicy. Nope, that's not the sun. A hot take, a hot take. Let's leave it at that. Getting a summer bod is out and getting your savings bod is in. My mother would say that for sure, and she would agree.

[Em]

Your mother would say, I'm getting my hot bod and my savings Saving squad.

[Christine]

Porcino Los dos. Mint Mobile.

[Em]

Mint Mobile offers premium wireless plans for just 15 bucks a month. So, like, you're already well on your way. Okay.

[Christine]

And all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.

[Em]

It was really easy. They just like mailed a little kit and it was like, just call in and everything's transferred over the end. Now you pay 15 bucks a month instead of like, however many bajillions of dollars.

[Christine]

And we use it for when we were on tour too.

[Em]

Yes, the iPad has been A blessing. Eva doesn't have to run from backstage to bring me my notes because I can just look them up on the iPad this year.

[Christine]

Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank, says my mom. And Mint Mobile, get your summer savings and shop premium Wireless [e-mail] ATWD that's mintmobile.com ATWD upfront payment of $45 for.

[Em]

3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra CMIT mobile for details. Okay, I have a really big news. My friend Renee, who's had spring allergies all her life and does all the, all those sounds like the like, all the, like horrible. Oh, the horrible throat and ear sounds. She finally found an allergist. And, and she came and did. She went through ZOC doc, found an allergist and then she showed me the picture and every single, like little test needle was just like fully inflamed on her back.

[Christine]

Oh my.

[Em]

Hey, you're desperately allergic to everything in Ohio. But thanks to zocdoc, she knows that now and she can find relief. So I'm really thankful because they're just a really cool service and I've used them for years, but they're still making big changes in my personal life. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. And we're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health, dental, dental health, primary care, urgent care, allergists.

[Christine]

Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. I know I use them to get every single one of my medications I currently am on and my life is significantly better. Thank you for that. And through ZocDoc, I ended up also finding my cardiologist. I mean, I've, it has been a, a blessing.

[Em]

Stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com drink to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com Drink Zocdoc.com Drink okay, so the story I have for you today is the story of Ala Sherman and we're going to get into it. She was born in Cleveland, Ohio in 1959 to Doris and Albert Zinn and was extremely close with her family. Her mom, Doris, was actually a survivor of a Auschwitz and she came out of Auschwitz having lost both her parents. And she met Albert, her husband, after the war in a camp for displaced persons. And both of them had lost much of their families. So they bonded, they married, they immigrated to the U.S. settled in Cleveland, and they named Eliza after her maternal grandmother who had been killed in the Holocaust. Wow. So just a really tight knit and like, like, you know, the kind of family. Family where family is above all else, you know, very tight knit. Elise's friends knew her as someone very compassionate and kind. She became a labor and delivery nurse and really, really loved working with mothers. A lot of parents and families were completely blown away by how just compassionate and what a good listener she was during labor especially.

[Christine]

Well, imagine if your family has a. Such. Such, like, immediate ties to the Holocaust. All. All you have after that is compassion for others.

[Em]

Right? I mean, it's. It's a beautiful thing that it, like, can turn like that, you know, something so bad into something beautiful. And she really was a very, very, very. Like, the amount of people who have been. Just. Even Saoirse said it, like, during research, like, the amount of people who wanted something. Wanted to say something just beautiful and positive about Lisa. And this is a great example here. Apparently, apparently Elise's presence had such an impact on one mother during label labor that her own mother, who was in the room. So the grandmother of the new baby suggested she named the baby after Elisa. And she did. Oh, my God. So it's like she helped this woman give birth and she named her daughter after you. Like, that's.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

I know. That's like, how great of a person she was.

[Christine]

Like, everyone aspires to be seen as that.

[Em]

Agreed, right? Like, yeah, just real. Well, not everyone one, but I do.

[Christine]

I would love to be.

[Em]

Me too.

[Christine]

Well, loved.

[Em]

Me too. Me too. That's the dream. And she really was so at home in the suburbs of Cleveland, Ala. Created a welcoming home. She was one of those people that let anyone in at all times. She always had, like, snacks and. And drinks ready to go for anybody who came over. She married this guy named Sanford Sherman, and he was an eye surgeon whose parents were also survivors of the Holocaust. So they had very similar kind of ties in that way, way. And he could understand the ways in which Elisa's family history shaped her life. And that was important to her. She was completely dedicated to fostering community in her life. Her house became a social spot. I mean, that made sense with all the snacks and things that she's always having out for kids. There was always candy around for the kids. And Eliza didn't just support her own family and community. She actually became the coordinator for in vitro fertilization at Cleveland Clinic. And wow. Cleveland Clinic. Clinic is a big deal. I don't know if you know about the Cleveland Clinic, but they are one of the top medical. I don't know, medical places. Hospital. I don't know the right word. Clinics, I guess.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

Yeah. In, in the country.

[Christine]

Oh, really?

[Em]

It's. Yeah, it's a really. Cleveland Clinic. They do a lot, A lot of specialized care. And so she became the coordinator for IVF at the clinic. At the Cleveland Clinic.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

And just like her when she was a labor and delivery nurse, her IVF patients and their families adored her. One person who knew her said this was her. She had found her calling helping families with struggling with infertility. So as Eliza thrived at work, she struggled at home with her life with Stanford. Her brother Edward said there was always tension in the marriage, that perhaps the two of them weren't right for each other. And Eliza considered divorce. But like what we were saying earlier about how family and compassion is everything. She really struggled with the idea of having to tell her parents that she was getting divorced and that her, you know, she, she, she basically. Somebody even mentioned on the show, on a docu series I watched about her that, you know, her parents had gone through the Holocaust and she thought, like, well, I can go. I can get through this for the sake of my family. You know, if my.

[Christine]

It has to be so tough, though. Of like. Right.

[Em]

Like the bar is impossible.

[Christine]

So.

[Em]

Yeah, it's impossible.

[Christine]

The bar is. You should tolerate everything because it's like that pressure.

[Em]

Yeah, that, like internal pressure. And I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm sure. I'm assuming her parents weren't putting that pressure on her intentionally, but I imagine.

[Christine]

But the comparison game must be a nightmare.

[Em]

And so finally, after 30 years of marriage, Elisa. Elisa bit the bullet. She filed for divorce. It was June 2011, and it took a while. The negotiations were slow going. She spent about two years going back and forth through their attorneys with Sanford. And more than that, things had gotten very weird in her life, sometimes even menacing. Like really strange things started happening. So Alisa's brother Edward said that something heavy had been thrown through her car window while she was visiting their mother. Her tires were punctured on two of her vehicles in the driveway. At the same time. In 2012, she received a threatening message at work. Just a lot of stress inducing events that were causing her to to lose sleep and feel very, very on edge.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

By the time negotiations were nearing an end in early 2013, Aliza was basically like, I'm so done with this. I need to move on. And everybody was thrilled for her. They were saying she was so ready for, like, a new lease on life. She had, you know, these decades of tension and. And stuff, and now she was able to, you know, look forward and focus on her job and her kids. Kids. And she was so, so thrilled. So let's jump to Sunday, March 24th. This is a few days before the court date, and Eliza was scheduled to go over final details with her divorce attorney, Gregory Moore. So Gregory said, okay, you know, come to my office. It was downtown Cleveland. And Eliza said, okay, I'm gonna run some errands, and I'll be back this afternoon with pizza. But while she was. Was out, Gregory rescheduled the meeting. And so she had to meet with him in the evening. And when she finally arrived, it was 5pm and you and I talked about this briefly, but, like, in towns like Cleveland and Cincinnati, when it's not like, Monday, 9 to Monday through Friday, 9 to 5, downtown is dead. Like, there's nothing on. It's. It's like an industrial. Yeah. It almost just, like, even, like, the. The restaurants all close, like, because there's nobody there. So this is Cleveland's, very similar. So she's downtown meeting her lawyer, and she gets there around 5pm and realizes the entrance door to the building is locked, and she's already, like, kind of on edge. And she. She texts him, and he's like, oh, shoot, okay, I will. I'll come down to let you in. Meanwhile, back at home, Eliza's family doesn't realize that this has been rescheduled a couple times. So they're waiting for her to come home with the dinner, and when she didn't show up, they start texting and calling her, getting no response. And they kind of all touched base with each other and realized nobody had heard from ALA in hours. So it was about 9pm they're all getting, you know, more and more nervous by the minute. And a police officer calls one of the family members and asks that the entire family gather at Ala's home as soon as possible.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

Police officers arrived to meet them and told them that Aliza was. Was dead. She had been viciously attacked at the office door outside the building, and a man in a nearby building had rushed to her side when he heard her screams. He found her bleeding badly. She had been stabbed 11 times by.

[Christine]

Some oh, my God.

[Em]

And the killer escaped while the witness stayed with Elisa. And she apparently tried to speak to him, but he couldn't understand what she was trying to say. And. And she was transported to the ER, where she was pronounced dead at 6:14pm and she was just 53 years old with a lot of life ahead of her.

[Christine]

53. Wow.

[Em]

So this was a devastating loss. I mean, it wasn't just her family, but entire communities had lost somebody important to them. Her mom. They had to tell her mom. It's just. It's just a horrible thing.

[Christine]

And her mom already. I mean, went through Auschwitz.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

The. The. I mean, the. In. The incomparable. And lost both of her parents to violence, probably other family members to violence in the same way. And now she's lost her.

[Em]

Then you feel like you're finally safe and have a stable home and a beautiful, free life. And it's like this just comes out really. It's horrifying.

[Christine]

I would never blame that woman for just being bitter for the rest of her life. I mean, I can't.

[Em]

Yeah. It feels like such a hard thing to even comprehend.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Let alone go through. And her brother had to tell their mom, and Eliza and her mom spoke every single day. So they were. They were very close. It was just impossible for anybody to comprehend. This was a really brutal attack. It was in daylight. The killer didn't take anything. She still had her purse and her jewelry on. So it wasn't a robbery. Robbery. Investigators discovered surveillance footage from a camera on a nearby building, which captured the suspect running to attack Elisa, like, frantically, and then fleeing. And so it was like they clearly had premeditated. This is premeditated because, like, they ran toward her, or at least it was targeted somehow.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

When Elisa stood as close as she could to the door to avoid the cold, an unknown person just ran directly to her, attacked her in a frenzy, ran away. And it looked like the killer was just looking for her specifically. And that was the goal. And then they just peaced out because they didn't take anything. They didn't rob her, you know, nothing like that. No sexual assault. They were starting to think this may not have been a senseless, random attack, but maybe premeditated.

[Christine]

And you think it could have been like. Like a hate crime because she's Jewish?

[Em]

Like, it's a really interesting point.

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

I feel like it could be.

[Christine]

I'm only. Because. I mean, that it's not that far away from when people were just.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Auschwitz or something, you know, because.

[Em]

Yeah. No, I. That's an interesting angle. I wonder if they did look at that. I'm not sure. Although the attack was captured on camera, the killer's identity couldn't be determined. They were wearing all black, and it was a jacket with a hood over the face, long pants. They. They were like, wearing these. It looked like lots of layers, so you couldn't see their hands, their face just completely covered. And even though police did a wide search of the area, they checked dumpsters, sewers, alleys, rooftops for the murder weapon, but they couldn't find it anywhere. And when they checked all the blood, collected the scene, it all belonged to her. Even though she had defensive wounds on her hands. So just pretty crazy. There was not a single smidgen of evidence left behind. They somehow managed to attack her, stab her 11 times, and leave behind no evidence. And so investigators were shocked. They thought this was a big break in the case, getting this surveillance footage. And now they're realizing, like, oh, we're kind of back to square one. Those close to Elisa went to group grief counseling because they were just so devastated as a community. Edward said the grief was the worst pain he had ever experienced in his life. His. That's her brother. It was painful enough for Elisa's community to try and make sense of what had happened, but to realize, like, they might not even get answers as to who did this was another blow. A year after Elisa was killed, her daughter, Jennifer Sherman filed a civil suit against her father.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

So Sanford Sherman was sued. In the suit, he was accused of forging Aleeza's signature and using a fraudulent power of attention attorney to move and hide over $2 million from Elisa over a 10 year period.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

Elisa had apparently learned about the account and the money during divorce proceedings when she hired a forensic accountant to investigate her family's finances. So this was all kind of coming to light.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

The civil suit also revealed other troubling truths about Elisa's marriage to Sanford. In emails to her lawyer, she said that she was terrified of. Of him. In one email, she wrote, sanford will stop at nothing to hurt me. I don't think I will ever be safe.

[Christine]

Wow. Okay.

[Em]

In a deposition, Larry Shanker, a retired police officer and friend of Sanford's, stated that Sanford asked him repeatedly how a person could commit murder without being caught. And I watched this questioning and. Or this deposition, and he's like. They're like, did he say it repeatedly? He said, oh, he said it repeated repeatedly. Like he asked a lot of times. Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

Larry claimed that Sanford asked This question more than 10 times and that Larry explained that a murderer should avoid. So basically Larry's like, yeah, and then I kind of answered his question, and I said, well, if you're gonna murder someone, you should avoid using your car, which could be seen. You should conceal your face and hands. You should never use a gun because that can be heard. And you should never wear your street clothes because they'll be right recognized. Sanford claims he never asked any of that and has no idea what his friend is talking about.

[Christine]

Typical. Typical. Typical. Okay.

[Em]

The suit also revealed that police responded to over 15 domestic disturbances at the Sherman House in the years Eliza and Sanford were 15. 15.

[Christine]

No wonder that woman was terrified. Oh, my God.

[Em]

Exactly. In 2011, Aliza told officers reporting to a domestic disturbance that Sanford said he was, quote, going to get. Get her and that she didn't feel safe with him.

[Christine]

I mean, am I allowed to fully think. Am I gonna. Am I. Am I wrong to say out loud, publicly that I got a hunch?

[Em]

You can say you've got a hunch.

[Christine]

Okay. I got a hunch that I. I don't think it was a hate crime anymore. I think. I think. Completely different story.

[Em]

Before Eliza filed for divorce, she began sleeping downstairs in a separate bedroom with a bolt lock on the door. That's how much she wanted her privacy and safety.

[Christine]

I mean, come on.

[Em]

Come on. Yeah. Although things look bleak for Sanford, he was not named an official suspect in Ale's death. He settled the suit for $110,000 in 2016 on the condition that his daughter release him from future civil claims unless he was charged for involvement in Elise's murder. So basically, his own daughter was not able to sue him again unless it came out that he was involved with.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

Death of her mother.

[Christine]

Huh? Wow.

[Em]

Yeah. So that same year, investigators noticed a few discrepancies between stories. They were looking into everybody's alibi for that day, and they realized that her divorce attorney, Gregory Moore, had lied about his whereabouts on the day Elisa was killed. Because if you think about it, there's one thing from that opening where she was killed that, like, really kind of also struck me as odd, which is why did a stranger from another building respond to Elisa's screams for help when Gregory was coming downstairs to let her inside? And why was he nowhere in sight, you know, when this all happened? So they checked phone and key card records, which revealed that Gregory was not in the building at all that day.

[Christine]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Em]

I mean, before, during, or after the attack. So why would he invite her there? Even after rescheduling twice, told her, oh, I'm inside. I'll come down, when he was not inside and told her to wait for him when he knew he would never come. He ultimately faced charges for telling the same lie to police about his whereabouts that day and was facing legal trouble for calling in, get this, bomb threats to courthouses when he was unprepared for a court date.

[Christine]

I mean, this feels like a. A cut and dry situation here. I don't even know why we're covering it. I. There is no mystery to be found. There's.

[Em]

You had a hunch a minute ago, though.

[Christine]

I had the hunch. No, the hunches. Well, now I don't know anymore. God damn it. Keep going.

[Em]

So he was also. Okay, so he's facing legal troubles for postponing trials that he wasn't prepared for by calling in bomb threats. He served six months in county jail where he was uncooperative with investigators who tried to talk to him about Eliza's case. Meanwhile. Meanwhile, Sanford had moved away to a nursing care facility in Florida, and in 2014, he passed away. Apparently, he had also been fully uncooperative with Elisa's case and wanted nothing to do with it. So in 2024, Jennifer, the daughter, partnered with Cleave the Cleveland Clinic to create the Elisa Sherman Fund. And according to the fund's webpage, which, which is still accepting donations, at least originally, when we did this note, these notes a few weeks ago ago, all money raised through the Alisa Sherman Fund will directly support the needs of Cleveland Clinic patients and caregivers who have experienced violence. And I love that it includes patients and caregivers who, who are part of the clean Cleveland Clinic. I think that's cool. Now I'm going to read you. This is like, this might be a first also. M in. And that's why you drink history, maybe. I have the original notes and how they ended. And then last night when I was just doing one more sweep of the story story, there had been an update on the case in like two weeks that.

[Christine]

What are the.

[Em]

When Saoirse started the research or a few. Actually, it might have been more weeks, but since when? I got them to. To today. So here are the original. Here's the original end of the notes. Elisa's case remains open with the Ohio BCI Cold Case Unit and there is a $100,000 reward for information that leads to an arrest or conviction. Here are the new notes. There's an article from May 4, 2025 on ABC. Authorities announce arrest in 2013 cold case murder of Cleveland nurse. Ohio authorities said they've solved the more than decade old fatal stabbing of a Cleveland clinic nurse, announcing recent murder charges against her former divorce attorney, who already served jail time for lying to police during the investigation. Moore was indicted on charges for murder, aggravated murder, kidnapping and conspiracy, according to documents unsealed from Friday. He was arrested by U.S. marshals in Texas, where he remained in custody Sunday, according to online reports. According to Friday's indictment, Moore allegedly planned to kidnap Sherman as a delay tactic for her upcoming divorce trial.

[Christine]

What?

[Em]

So like, all the bomb threats he's calling in, he's going to kidnap her to like delay the trial? I don't believe that that's a on hint. The unsealed documents include messages between Moore and Sherman showing how he called her to the office, which was locked. She arrived and waited over an before deciding to return to her car, according to the indictment. During this time frame, an individual who was either Moore or an unknown co conspirator approached Sherman, circled behind her, chased her and then stabbed her over 10 times. The indictment. Moore swiped into the office later that evening and messaged Sherman to mislead investigators, according to the indictment. And then this is the last quote I want to end. You end with. By the way, those were direct quotes from the Age ABC article. I have a quote here. This is from the Cleveland Jewish News. And it's her brother Edward who said, I'm in shock because after 12 years, you don't expect it. The best word to sum up my feelings at this point would be bittersweet. Glad they got the person. But the memories are painful.

[Christine]

Yeah, I mean, I am always blown away when after six months a case is still being paid attention to. I'm. Yes, I would have thought for sure. Well, it's just. I'm just never gonna learn anything.

[Em]

And I was re. I was so confused. Oh, by the way, I'm so sorry. That was Harry. Her. Her brother Harry, not Edward, who said that. But I just also want to say it's so weird because I'm looking through the notes and then I'm looking through the articles online and I'm like, wait a minute. And then I look at the date and I'm like, oh, my God. Saoirse finished these, like two days before all these articles came out.

[Christine]

It really couldn't have come. Really weird, only for us, at a better.

[Em]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[Christine]

It absolutely could have come at a better time, but it. For us, it came at a great time.

[Em]

Yeah, that was really Wild. I'm just so glad. I thought, well, and if we had put out that live episode, I would have posted it. We probably would have recorded it before the changes. So, you know, at least that was able to be updated on time. So, anyway, tragic, tragic story. And I was talking to Search about it.

[Christine]

I.

[Em]

And like, they said, oh, I wonder what the motive was. And it's like, I guess to delay the case, but that seems so extreme. And then I thought to myself, well, I guess if the husband was also not. I mean, who knows? Maybe he paid him. Like, maybe they were in cahoots, right? Like, yeah, maybe he knew that his wife found out about the $2 million he was stealing. He.

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

Yeah, he knew her lawyer was up to some shady shit. Maybe they worked together. I don't know. Just a theater theory. We'll see. Maybe more will come out as the trials and all that gets going, so. We'll see.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh. Well, great timing for your little story. That's awesome.

[Em]

Yeah. I'm just glad I got. I get so many cold cases. It's exciting to get, like, an actual.

[Christine]

I know.

[Em]

Timely fix, you know? Timely. Timely answer.

[Christine]

I'm used to trying to crack the case. As you read the notes, you did.

[Em]

Get a few hunches. So you were onto something there.

[Christine]

I think I did have a few hunches. Inches, but. Wow. Okay. Well, I'm glad that there's gonna be some justice, maybe.

[Em]

Let's hope. And maybe some more information.

[Christine]

Well, thank you, everyone, for another rousing weekly episode of and that's why We Drink. If you would like more of us talking, and specifically us talking about our tour, now that we can finally tell you our secrets, our dirty little secrets, you can head over to Patreon for a happy hour.

[Em]

That's right. There's a lot to discuss, so we'll see you there.

[Christine]

And that's why we drink.