E435 The Schnapps Age and the Little Chicken Man

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink – Episode E435: "The Schnapps Age and the Little Chicken Man"

Release Date: June 8, 2025

Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schultz

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1. Episode Introduction and Personal Updates

The episode kicks off with Christine Schiefer expressing her current predicament: managing her high-energy dog, Hank, who is restless and dealing with pink eye. Em Schultz sympathetically responds, highlighting the challenges Christine faces in finding someone to help care for Hank.

• Christine (00:11): "Welcome, everybody. I am living in terror over here with this high energy dog that can't get any of his energy out."

Christine details the difficulties of administering eye ointment to Hank alone, reminiscing about better times when they had a second person to assist.

• Christine (05:07): "He's terrified of doors. He's... He's scared of doors."

2. Belated Birthday Celebration

Transitioning into a more lighthearted segment, Christine and Em acknowledge that this episode is their belated birthday special. They share anecdotes about forgotten plans and exchange playful banter about stickers and personal gifts.

• Em (02:37): "I got you a sticker the other day."

Their conversation delves into their personal preferences, discussing favorite cake flavors and the stress associated with aging.

• Christine (10:41): "I'm turning a schnapps age."

3. Personal Anecdotes and Community Engagement

The hosts share moments from their personal lives, including Em promoting his other podcast, "Beach to Sandy," and Christine highlighting her experiences with Hank's behavior.

• Em (12:02): "So give the dads in your life a unique, heartfelt gift you'll all cherish for years."

They also discuss interactions with listeners and community members, showcasing the close-knit nature of their audience.

4. Ghost Story Segment: Mr. Boo Boo

Shifting gears, the hosts delve into a chilling ghost story involving a mysterious apparition named Mr. Boo Boo. Em recounts recent experiences where his dog, Blaze, seemingly communicates with the ghost, leading to eerie occurrences like windows opening by themselves.

• Em (18:05): "So yesterday it happened before we recorded the listener episode."

Christine adds to the suspense by suggesting the possibility of supernatural interference, all while managing Hank's antics.

• Christine (24:52): "The only time I give him any doggy like melatonin is when we record."

The hosts humorously grapple with the paranormal events, intertwining their personal lives with the ghostly narrative.

5. True Crime Story: The Murder of Jabez Span

The centerpiece of the episode is a detailed recounting of the tragic case of Jabez Span, a 14-year-old from Newtown, Sarasota, who was murdered after attending a vigil for Travis Combs, another young victim.

a. Background and Disappearance

Jabez was a beloved member of the Newtown community, known for his passion for football and his caring nature. On September 4, following a memorial for Travis Combs, Jabez failed to return home, prompting a frantic search by his family and community.

• Em (61:16): "He was at the vigil."

Despite extensive efforts, including community search parties and increased rewards, leads remained scarce until skeletal remains were discovered a year and a half later.

b. Community and Investigative Challenges

The investigation faced numerous obstacles, including initial police indifference, the overshadowing impact of Hurricane Irma, and resistance from community members suspected of involvement. Private investigators and increased media attention eventually led to new leads, implicating local figures and deepening the mystery surrounding Jabez's disappearance.

• Christine (74:00): "They waited four days for a missing child report."

c. Emotional Impact and Advocacy

Jabez's mother, Tawana, draws inspiration from historical cases like Emmett Till to advocate for justice and support for affected families. She established the Jabez Span Foundation to aid families of missing persons and promote community initiatives.

• Em (83:07): "Tawana felt a real kinship, understandably."

The hosts emphasize the enduring pain and unresolved questions surrounding Jabez's case, highlighting the need for continued advocacy and community support.

6. Closing Remarks and Promotions

As the episode wraps up, Christine and Em briefly promote their respective projects and upcoming events, encouraging listeners to engage further with their content.

• Em (102:12): "If anybody is interested, my other podcast with my brother, Beach to Sandy, is doing a 17 city tour."

They conclude with heartfelt messages, balancing the heavy true crime content with personal reflections and upcoming plans.

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Notable Quotes:

• Christine (05:07): "He's terrified of doors. He's... He's scared of doors."

• Em (02:37): "I got you a sticker the other day."

• Em (18:05): "So yesterday it happened before we recorded the listener episode."

• Em (61:16): "He was at the vigil."

• Em (83:07): "Tawana felt a real kinship, understandably."

• Em (102:12): "If anybody is interested, my other podcast with my brother, Beach to Sandy, is doing a 17 city tour."

---

Conclusion

Episode E435 of "And That's Why We Drink" masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes, humorous exchanges, a spine-chilling ghost story, and a deeply moving true crime narrative. Christine and Em provide listeners with a rich tapestry of content that ranges from the everyday challenges of pet ownership to the profound impact of community tragedies. Through engaging dialogue and heartfelt storytelling, the episode offers both entertainment and emotional resonance, ensuring that listeners are captivated from start to finish.

Transcript

[Christine Schieffer]

Welcome, everybody. I am living in terror over here with this high energy dog that can't get any of his energy out.

[Em Schultz]

Tick talk. The clock is ticking.

[Christine Schieffer]

I. We have it before he realizes what's happening. I feel like my background isn't as good. I'm being back. I'm back with this time.

[Em Schultz]

Um, because you don't have your menus.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, because he's sitting. It's like he's sitting over there. I don't want to even move.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, you don't want to disrupt. No, sir. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

So we're on the other bench of the nook, and I'm just counting down the minutes until today. He first of all has pink eye, so I couldn't board him and I couldn't get anyone to watch him that has a dog. And now we have people out in the back doing work, so now I can't.

[Em Schultz]

He's trapped with you.

[Christine Schieffer]

We're all trapped with him. And it's just gonna be.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, how did the vet go?

[Christine Schieffer]

He. They apparently did like a bunch of tests on his eye because they thought he, like, scratched his cornea from the dog park because his best friend Cali, their favorite thing to do is pull on each other's face again.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, good.

[Christine Schieffer]

So basically it feels like I'm watching Leatherface, like, in action. They. They grab their. Their jowls and just yank.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my God.

[Christine Schieffer]

What?

[Em Schultz]

The Gio literally left the room just now. Like, do you hear that? He's leaving. He's like, that's actually too much for me.

[Christine Schieffer]

His favorite thing is yanking on her face. And Callie is. That's also her favorite thing. So I. I was worried that, like, maybe he got his eye messed up, but it was once again just pink eye.

[Em Schultz]

So once again, same old, same old.

[Christine Schieffer]

And last time when Allison was here to help me give him the, like, the ointment every day. It. It worked a lot better when there was a second person to help hold them down, but now it's just me and one of my hands. Cuz the other one's holding the ointment.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

So it's. It's just really like, do a vlog.

[Em Schultz]

Because I think I would watch this just in the background. Like, I would watch that just playing on the TV of you trying to, you know, keep the dog under one arm.

[Christine Schieffer]

I'm doing it right now. He found my fingers and now thinks.

[Em Schultz]

That it's like he's getting closer.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's just. We're just seconds from him trying to get on this table. Anyway, so we're I feel like I'm chasing the clock here, which is not fair to either of us because this is our belated birthday episode.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, well, it was kind of my fault. We got mixed up. Well, I don't know. We forgot it was our birthday. We forgot our birthday episode, end of the episode. And we went, oh, oh, do you want to see the sticker I got you? I meant to show you on the Listener episode. I got you a sticker the other day.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, what does it say?

[Em Schultz]

I'm going to send a picture of it to you. It's right here. Because I was like. I cracked myself up, you know? You know?

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, yeah. I mean, if there's one thing I know about you, it's that I'm. It's a. It's like.

[Em Schultz]

Very funny.

[Christine Schieffer]

You're just gonna crack yourself up.

[Em Schultz]

Oops, what did I do? I opened a banner on this. Okay, okay. Sorry. I gotta go get the sticker again. I meant to send it to you yesterday when we recorded the Listener episode.

[Christine Schieffer]

Where'd you find it? At the.

[Em Schultz]

There's a store in Covington here called Hand Z with a Z. And it's just a really adorable shop.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's funny. There's a store here that I think you'd really like called Tansy.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Which is, like, two neighborhoods away from me. Here I go in my big gay car. Yes. Like, putting that on a Subaru is kind of homophobic in its own way. In a beautiful way.

[Em Schultz]

I just felt like the only person I knew who could actually, like, rightfully have that sticker.

[Christine Schieffer]

Absolutely. I'm putting that on my Subaru. There's no.

[Em Schultz]

You also do not have to. Because I know I already put your Waffle House sticker on there, but that.

[Christine Schieffer]

Thing'S still on there. It's been there for years, so. Oh, here we go. Hank, off. No, your eye looks better. Down. Down. That means I'm shoving the ointment in his eyeball. Good. That's nice.

[Em Schultz]

Good job. I was telling you. Good job, Em.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, thank you.

[Em Schultz]

Good boy.

[Christine Schieffer]

Hank, down. I love you, but you have up.

[Em Schultz]

Well, Hank, down and. Whoop.

[Christine Schieffer]

I'm. At least. I'm like, you can lie down on the bench, but you.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my God, look at Hank.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's. He's.

[Em Schultz]

Wait, a mini, mini, mini. Hi to me, everyone.

[Christine Schieffer]

Look at his eye. He's getting better. Where's your eye?

[Em Schultz]

Look, your collar. Oh, you're so cute. My goodness, you and Gia would have a riot.

[Christine Schieffer]

Pink off.

[Em Schultz]

What's on your shirt? Oh, is that an Ozarks shirt.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's from when we went to Ozark.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, that one is. That's fucking excellent. That shirt.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's a great one.

[Em Schultz]

I'm wearing a Monterey shirt for Monterey.

[Christine Schieffer]

Look at us.

[Em Schultz]

Look at us.

[Christine Schieffer]

Of our course Jetsetters, the Ozarks.

[Em Schultz]

I have a hammerhead shark on my shirt.

[Christine Schieffer]

Absolutely not. Hank. I'm gonna. I should have. I'm gonna.

[Em Schultz]

Literally halfway through that and took their headphones off.

[Christine Schieffer]

Look at what I have to do. No, he's literally climbing on top of me. Hank, stop. I love you, Hank. You have to sit down. By the way, at the vet, he refused to. He's terrified of doors, so.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my God.

[Christine Schieffer]

He's terrified of doors. He's. Oh, he's scared of doors. He's terrified of doors.

[Em Schultz]

Gio was scared of stairs. Is. Have you tested that with Hank?

[Christine Schieffer]

Why do dogs hate architecture?

[Em Schultz]

Honestly, I don't know.

[Christine Schieffer]

I. He's. Yeah, he's terrified of doors. And so at the vet, I had to hold all 60 pounds of him the whole time. The whole time.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, no.

[Christine Schieffer]

We're going to drug you. Okay, sorry, Bye. Please stand by.

[Em Schultz]

We have to stop the wind.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, of course. He's gonna chew it right next to me. Sure, come on over. He is. The only time I give him any doggy like melatonin is when we record now. So I feel like that's kind of what I think. He's like, yo, to me.

[Em Schultz]

He's like, give me the drugs. Give me the special recording drugs.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's. They're really nice, though. It's like advanced calming for like, you're supposed to give them at the end of the night to a high energy dog. If, like, the walk wasn't enough.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, if it needs a little boost, I need to take that.

[Christine Schieffer]

But he's. He's. He never needs them until we're recording. And I need him to, like, go away. So maybe not energy up. Yeah, so maybe not ethical, but whatever. I don't care. Everyone leave me alone.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I feel like it. Whatever. It's melatonin. It's meant to. It's meant to.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's literally for them to relax, and he needs to relax. So I'm a new parent and I don't care. I don't care. He needs. I need to do my job.

[Em Schultz]

Let's go put a little brandy on his gums. You know what they did with, like, infants?

[Christine Schieffer]

This is the equivalent of that, I guess. I gave him like a two hour walk thinking I'd exhaust him. That didn't work. It's. He needs to go to the dog park. He would be a lot better if he was. Anyway. Anyway, we're just recording on, like, a doggy thunderstorm. Just, like, the worst. The worst compilation of things. So.

[Em Schultz]

Speaking of, you should get him a thunder vest. Gio fucking loves that thing. He used to just sit next to it and wait for me to put it on him.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, I might, actually.

[Em Schultz]

It's like a weighted blanket. It makes him just feel even, like, during the day, just more, like, secure.

[Christine Schieffer]

I certainly will do that, especially next time we shot the vet, because yesterday was our first time trying the trazodone. Which our doctor. The doctor. That one wasn't my call, everyone. The doctor was like, he can't come back here. Yeah, he's not allowed because he's also terrified of doorways. And guess we have to walk through to get to the vet. Absolutely not. He. It was as if he wasn't on any medication at all. And so then they. They've doubled it now, and they said, try that.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my God. He's like a conundrum, huh? Yeah, He's a medical marvel.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know what? I'll tell him that later. Yeah. Okay. The last thing I'm gonna say about.

[Em Schultz]

Hank the wonder dog. Sorry, I just. Now I'm just writing a comic book in my head.

[Christine Schieffer]

The Widow Babies. Well, lately I've been calling him my little chicken man, and I don't know where that came from.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, those are the best nicknames when it literally means nothing. And you're like, what?

[Christine Schieffer]

I think because, like, his. His legs look like little chicken wings.

[Em Schultz]

Chicken legs, yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

He's made a little chicken man.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, gosh.

[Christine Schieffer]

So Hank the chicken man. But last thing I'm going to say about him, I swear, like, I'm not trying to be one of those, like, pet parents who, like, never shuts up.

[Em Schultz]

We've been waiting for it.

[Christine Schieffer]

Hank got a gift yesterday.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, is it the thing I sent?

[Christine Schieffer]

Yes.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, good. Okay. Because I bought it weeks ago. I was like, I didn't know it would come so fast after it shipped.

[Christine Schieffer]

I didn't know you got it because the note says it's from Gio. That's interesting.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, I. Sorry. Gio wrote me a note. I was reading it out loud for. That was his message. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't know if it was already there.

[Christine Schieffer]

I did not even know. Yeah, no, the message said, to Hank, ruff, ruff, ruff, ruff, ruff, Geo.

[Em Schultz]

I literally was like, I don't remember what it Says, oh, ruff.

[Christine Schieffer]

Rough, rough.

[Em Schultz]

Clearly at the time, I also didn't know what it said.

[Christine Schieffer]

No, it's very sweet. Gio got me. Got Hank. Excuse me. A cookie jar for all of his little treaties. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

It's great that we now have dog pen pals. That's going to go really well.

[Christine Schieffer]

I know. And it's customized, so it even says his name on it.

[Em Schultz]

Everything.

[Christine Schieffer]

Very sweet. That was very nice of you.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, good. I'm glad you like it. I hope it's not. It doesn't clash with your decor. I was like, it's kind of bold to buy something for people's house.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's already on the kitchen counter.

[Em Schultz]

I guess I didn't buy it. It's not my problem.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know what? That's right. A dog doesn't know what decor is. That's fine, right? No, he. I got pictures for you of him opening it. He was a very big fan. As soon as it came out of.

[Em Schultz]

The box with treats in it. That would have been a little better, actually.

[Christine Schieffer]

I'm gonna sit. That's easy.

[Em Schultz]

Let's do that. Company.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, thank you for that. I just wanted to give you a shout out. I was actually gonna bring it and, like, show it to you, but the last thing I need to do right.

[Em Schultz]

Now is totally okay that you bring food directly on screen as you're trying to get the dog to ignore you 100%.

[Christine Schieffer]

Anyway, back to the fact that it's our birthday episode. Yay. It happens in a few days. You haven't even gone on your trip yet, so it's weird to, like, reflect on something that hasn't happened. But are you feeling 34 yet?

[Em Schultz]

I keep saying I'm 34, so I feel like I am, definitely. Are you? How do you feel? Because you're turning a angel number. You're turning your. What is it called? An angel number, I guess Or. But my mom always calls it the schnapps age. I think I told somebody this. Maybe my. Maybe Eva, she calls it the. Or I guess in Germany they call it the schnapps age because you see double.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, that's fun.

[Em Schultz]

And I was like, that's so cute. So you're turning a schops age.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. That's lovely. That's. I like, that's more fun than angel number, I think.

[Em Schultz]

So.

[Christine Schieffer]

I have this weird conundrum where age doesn't even exist to me until the week before I'm changing an age, and.

[Em Schultz]

I'm, like, really alarming. We have all experienced that from you before. Many times. It's called every year on our birthdays.

[Christine Schieffer]

So no one should be surprised that I'm actually struggling with it.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I'm not. I mean.

[Christine Schieffer]

I. Yeah. The end. I mean, I'll tell you.

[Em Schultz]

You're 32.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's exactly right. And I'm gonna.

[Em Schultz]

And I'm 34. Because I'm never changing ahead.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's exactly right. Yeah. We all know I hate change. And also having to, you know, the morbidity of death. So whatever. Combined, it's not very fun.

[Em Schultz]

Maybe you only lived at 35. You know.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know what? I. Officially. It means I now have exactly two years to get those last 10 states under my belt if I want to get that thing off my bucket list. Wow. By 35, I want to do all 50 states, so I thought you meant.

[Em Schultz]

By the time you die. And I was like. I was joking. You're not going to really die in two years.

[Christine Schieffer]

Go ahead. No, sorry. By 35. That's my plan.

[Em Schultz]

I didn't know you had a time limit on that. Well, that feels like a really aggressive bucket list to have it. No wonder you're stressed about getting old. My bucket list goes home, like, 350.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, I'll. I'll. It'll be more. I'll be more loosey goosey with it after 35. But I want to hit up like, I want Alaska to be my 35th birthday gift to myself.

[Em Schultz]

That's cool.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, what are your goals for this?

[Em Schultz]

I know I ask you every year, but. Or every year? Every time we talk about it, but. What do you still have all the.

[Christine Schieffer]

Ones where people just go hiking? Like Montana? Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, but that's a cowboy state. You probably see some cool stuff up there.

[Christine Schieffer]

I remember that was why I so desperately wanted to try to hit up Omaha, Nebraska, when we were. We were near there, but then.

[Em Schultz]

Hey, guess what?

[Christine Schieffer]

What?

[Em Schultz]

Beach to Sandy has an Omaha, Nebraska show this fall. Em. And I think you get to check.

[Christine Schieffer]

It off your list. You get to check it off your list.

[Em Schultz]

And now we can sell out Omaha because Em will be there. I can use you as a marketing ploy.

[Christine Schieffer]

Whatever. If you can. Can you expense my flight to Omaha, Nebraska?

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, sure.

[Christine Schieffer]

No, I do need a reason to go there, so. Hey, why not?

[Em Schultz]

Well, listen, I'm giving you one. I'm giving everyone one. Everybody come to Omaha. We're gonna have a great time. And we're going to Plano. We. To a lot of really random towns I've never been to.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know, on our last Tour. We should have asked Andrew to just send us to all places I've never been to. Just check them off the list.

[Em Schultz]

I was gonna say we should just be like Alaska, Nebraska.

[Christine Schieffer]

The askas.

[Em Schultz]

The askas. They'll know what it means.

[Christine Schieffer]

Don't know what it means. Oh, Christine. Well, happy birthday. Are you. What are you hoping your cake flavor will be this year?

[Em Schultz]

Hmm. Oh, thank you for asking. That's such an important question that alarmingly, nobody's asked me yet. And I'm like, what is that supposed to mean? Everybody does that mean we forgot my favorite. Oh, you're not a carrot cake.

[Christine Schieffer]

I just feel. I mean, I don't. It's not number one.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. I think for some reason every birthday, my stepmom would always buy one. And I think I just associate it with my birthday particularly.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's like.

[Em Schultz]

No.

[Christine Schieffer]

RJ has one for his birthday every year. When he was growing up, they would always get a Dairy Queen cake in the shape of a watermelon.

[Em Schultz]

That's so random. But he's a July birthday, right?

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. So it was always like summer. Yeah. Like he would always have. And also very fitting for him. They would always throw a pool party. And so it was always a watermelon shaped cake.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, it makes a lot. And he's a swimmer. Yeah, Makes sense.

[Christine Schieffer]

And he's healthy, so might as well look like watermelon.

[Em Schultz]

You might as well pretend you're eating fruit. How fun.

[Christine Schieffer]

But yeah, I was just.

[Em Schultz]

Because your cake. Are you gonna buy it for yourself? Because it sounds like I'm also gonna buy it for myself.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, my go to is usually Funfetti with chocolate frosting, but as I'm getting older, I don' totally love chocolate frosting anymore. So I think I'm gonna reverse them and do chocolate cake with vanilla frosting.

[Em Schultz]

That'll be interesting.

[Christine Schieffer]

I don't like double of anything. If it's vanilla, vanilla, you. And if it's chocolate, chocolate, you. But if it's you too. On that there has to be a switch, a marriage between the two. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. A swirl. So swirl if you will. Anyway, maybe our cakes can kiss. We just smush them together. No, I don't want carrot cake on.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I was gonna say you're gonna get cream cheese frosting all over your vanilla frosting and you won't know which one's which and it's gonna really upset you. So I don't think we should do that.

[Christine Schieffer]

100. Thank you for saying that.

[Em Schultz]

I'm gonna say no immediately on that.

[Christine Schieffer]

This Week's sponsor is Neon's new film, the Life of Chuck. This movie is so good, everybody. We got to see it a while ago and I'm not kidding. I, I, it's very few movies would I watch again. I'm going to see this again. I'm going to theaters. So watch this. It's, it's just such a good movie. The rap calls the Life of Chuck Mike Flanagan's best film yet. And Jason Gorber from Collider says it's the best Stephen King film ever made. Can confirm. I don't know who Jason Gorber is from Collider. It might as well say M. Schultz. It really is the best Stephen King film ever made. I'm not kidding. This is such a good movie. Everyone, please, please, please go watch it. If you like Tom Hiddleston, if you like Jacob Tremblay, if you like Karen Gillen, if you like Matthew Lillard. I mean, if you like spooky stories. I mean it's got this air of mystery around it the entire time. It's not as scary as I thought it was gonna be, but it actually, the story is incredible. The acting is incredible. Please go check it out. Watch. The Life of Chuck now playing everywhere. The Life of Chuck now playing everywhere.

[Em Schultz]

So Leon and I, now that she's old enough to kind of understand like the concept of a holiday, she is so excited to celebrate Father's Day with Blaze. And that is why we are gifting him a unique heartfelt gift that will truly make him feel loved. It's called Storyworth Memoirs. Now we can force Blaze to tell us all the beautiful stories that are in his head that he keeps to himself.

[Christine Schieffer]

Finally, he can talk. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Each week, Storyworth emails your dad or other loved one a memory provoking question that you get to help pick. Like, did you ever get in trouble in school? Or what were your favorite toys as a child? It's like really cool to learn these things. I remember my, I gave this same gift to my mom one time and she was like, oh, you know my pet crow, Simon? And I was like, who can't just, I was like, you can't just say something that as if I already know.

[Christine Schieffer]

All your loved one needs to do is either write a story over email or record it over the phone for story worth to transcribe. It's so easy. With no special apps required and customers love Storyworth. They've preserved millions of family stories since their founding over 10 years ago. They have more than 40,000 five star reviews on Trustpilot. The Wirecutter, Strategist, CNN, and more. They agree that Storyworth is the perfect gift for the people you love most.

[Em Schultz]

So give the dads in your life a unique, heartfelt gift you'll all cherish for years. StoryWorth right now save 15 during their Father's Day sale. When you go to StoryWorth.com Drink, that's StoryWorth.com Drink to save 15 on your order.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, for your birthday, I tried to do a story for you.

[Em Schultz]

I can't wait. Oh, wait, what? I told me to tell you. I'm so sorry. I forgot that I was gonna tell you. My ghost.

[Christine Schieffer]

Let me ask. Can I, can I. Can I wind you up?

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

For my birthday, I have a request.

[Em Schultz]

What is it?

[Christine Schieffer]

A little birdie named Christine Schieffer told me that another little birdie named Leona maybe saw something spooky recently. And I have yet to get the story because we've been saving it for the episode. So for my birthday, please tell me.

[Em Schultz]

I will. It has escalated a little bit. Not escalated. That's not the right word. But the story continues because today. Okay, yesterday. Did we record yesterday? I feel like my brain is.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yes, we record the listeners episode.

[Em Schultz]

Okay, so yesterday it happened before we recorded the listener episode. And I was like, wait till tomorrow when I have more time. I need to tell you this. Basically, Blaze walked up to me and he didn't think Leona could hear him. And he said, have you been opening my window in my office? Like, back behind the bathtub? And I was like, what? No.

[Christine Schieffer]

And he means the room that all of us have known as haunted since.

[Em Schultz]

The one that we can't look into at night because we know something's going to be standing in there.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, my God.

[Em Schultz]

And it's like the one where I literally put my hand over my face when I walk past. And then I hold on extra tight to the railing because I'm like, someone's gonna push me down.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, my God.

[Em Schultz]

So you guys, have you been opening the window? And I'm like, yeah, right? And he goes, seriously, you haven't been. And I was like, no. Is this a joke? And he goes, damn. The window keeps just opening, like, significantly by itself. He's like, I go in there and I'm like, what the heck? And I have to, like, shut the window. Like, it's not closing by itself. It's opening by itself.

[Christine Schieffer]

And it's rising. It's not rising up.

[Em Schultz]

And it's like an old ass wooden window. It's not like, you know, some Sort of mechanical thing. And Leona, of course, I'm like, what do you mean the ghost has been opening your window? Or I said something like, oh, my God, what do you mean? And Leona goes, oh, there's a ghost opening the window. And I was like, oh, boy, here we go. And she goes, daddy, does he live in your office? And we were like, I don't know. You know, let's just ignore it. And that was the night before. The next morning, Leanna and I are sitting on the couch. She goes, remember the ghost that opens the window? And I went, huh? And she goes, can we go up and look for him real quick? And I was like, oh, okay.

[Christine Schieffer]

Of course. That's going to be her favorite place to hang out now.

[Em Schultz]

She literally drags me up into that stupid room that I hate to go into. And she waltzes into the bathroom. She gets scared halfway through, and she's like, can you pick me up? And I'm like, huh?

[Christine Schieffer]

So even she knows.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. She's like, hello, Is anybody here? And there's no ghost. She goes, I don't see him. And the window was closed, but the screen was up. And I don't know if that was anything, but Blue said, every few days it'll just open. And so we're wandering around, and she's like, what's the ghost's name? And I was like, I don't know. And she goes, maybe it's Boo Boo. I don't think so. And she was like, yes, it is. And I went, I can't stand this. And so then she's like, I wonder where Boo Boo is. And I'm like, please talk calling him that. Then she waltzes over to my office, and she's looking around. She's like, I don't see him in here either. And then she looks into my bathroom where my friend Nicole had said, like, oh, it feels like something tucks itself away in there. She looks in that bathroom and goes, oh, maybe he hides in there. And I went, ah. And I was like, leanna, let's go back downstairs. I really am not liking this. And she's walking down. She's looking around. There's, like, parts of the wall. And then today we went to the bookstore, robling coffee and books. Um, and by the way, Leona and I got recognized three different times in two days. And I feel like now Leona thinks she's some sort of, like, rock star. Rock star. And she's always just, like, getting stickers from people. So I want to say hello to Elizabeth Sophia and Jenny, thank you for saying hello and thank you for giving us stickers.

[Christine Schieffer]

Have you. Do you explain, like, what's going on, or does she just think they're your friends?

[Em Schultz]

I try to explain it, but I'm like, how do I tell her that? People know me from a podcast, but they also know who she is.

[Christine Schieffer]

You could do the Khloe Kardashian. She really like her kids. Her kids were like, how come people stop you and, like, want to take a picture with you? And she's like, I think they just liked my hair.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, that's cute. That's really cute.

[Christine Schieffer]

I think they just liked what I was wearing, and they just wanted.

[Em Schultz]

I love your yellow helmet, Leona.

[Christine Schieffer]

They just wanted to smile in a picture together, that's all.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my God. That's actually very sweet. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Well, this person, Jenny today comes up and goes, hi, like, and. And says, hey, Leanna, do you like stickers? And happens to have a sheet of stickers, and they're ghosts. And she hands she's stickers, Leona. And Leona goes, oh, ghost. There's a ghost in my daddy's office. And Jenny goes, oh, in daddy's office.

[Christine Schieffer]

Jenny was like, I hit the jackpot.

[Em Schultz]

I know what the experiences ghost story to her outside. Yeah, it was just insane. And then as we're leaving, she literally. Liana literally turns to Jenny and goes, I think he's stuck in the wall. And I'm like, what? And so anyway, now we're home, and Mr. Boo Boo's stuck in the wall, and he likes at night and open daddy's window behind the bathtub. I don't like it one bit. Actually. I do a little bit. I have to admit, it's kind of fun because nothing scary has happened yet, but this is starting to upset me.

[Christine Schieffer]

I feel like. I feel like, can you imagine? You're listening to a podcast and the podcaster is always saying, like, one day, when I have a kid, I hope they have a spooky experience. And then in that, oh, the. The candle has been lit moment, you're. You get to witness it. You get to witness the kid being like, oh, actually, we have a ghost. I hope he's in the walls. I think he's on the walls.

[Em Schultz]

He's the trippiest. Because I'm sitting here going, that's a.

[Christine Schieffer]

That was the Willy Wonka golden ticket.

[Em Schultz]

Of experience moment for poor Jenny, who just happened to have ghost stickers in her purse. Oh, my gosh. Wow. I was. It was quite a moment. I was Like, I swear I didn't plan this. And also, this is news to me about this ghost being stuck in the walls.

[Christine Schieffer]

I'm like, I do appreciate that Leona at least says, like, oh, I don't see him in here. I'm like, good. That way.

[Em Schultz]

That is so good.

[Christine Schieffer]

I don't want to see him.

[Em Schultz]

She looked in my bathroom upstairs and was like, oh. And I'm like, I don't like the way that the tone changed when she looked in there.

[Christine Schieffer]

Full chills.

[Em Schultz]

And it's like, she's not even scared, which is good. But also, I'm like, but you should be a little scared. I think, like, shouldn't we all be a little scared? No.

[Christine Schieffer]

Maybe start teaching her now that, like, if Mr. Boo Boo comes and sees you, you have to say, go away.

[Em Schultz]

Like, I don't. I'm, like, so scared to do that, because I don't want to put it in her head and have her be like, yes, it came to see me.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, yeah. Well, just. I.

[Em Schultz]

Just to mess with me or something. Because she knows full well. Anyway, so that's my ghost story. It's. It's new and evolving. It started yesterday morning when she said, let's go look for the ghost. And I was like, I did film the whole thing because I was like, I don't know what's about to happen. This is Leona's first ghost hunt.

[Christine Schieffer]

So.

[Em Schultz]

And so I filmed it. At one point, she literally looked. Oh, oh, oh. She's actually a comedian. What a surprise. We go into my office, and she goes, I don't see the ghost in here. And she goes, oh. And I said, what? And she goes, I found him. And she picks up, like, a little stuffed ghost. That, of course, is in my office is like.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's actually very funny.

[Em Schultz]

I think I found him. And I, like, first out laughing. So we did have a ghost hunt. But I will. I'll probably eventually upload that somewhere maybe to. I don't know. We'll see. But yeah. So that's my update.

[Christine Schieffer]

Good. My update is that my fingers have been getting eaten alive this whole time. Okay. Oh, geez.

[Em Schultz]

The way that, like, the earth shakes when Hank is trying to climb into frame.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Hank, can you.

[Em Schultz]

It's really nice.

[Christine Schieffer]

Put this. Go get it. No. Okay.

[Em Schultz]

Mr. Boo Boo. Oh, and then on the listener episode, m called him Mr. Boo Boo. And now I can't get that out of my head.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, I. Sorry. Sorry about that. By the way. I. Honestly, every time you. Every time you've ever Said, I really wish that my kid was spooky. And now you're getting it. And we're both immediately terrified. Like, karma is a very silly thing.

[Em Schultz]

And I knew what I was doing, right. Like, I knew I was walking right into this stupid little jinx I'd made for myself.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, what. What happened to, like, the person who said, like, oh, Leona's not really going to be into it, but that maybe, like, a next one would be or something like that? Wasn't that something that was said?

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. Nicole also said, oh, Leona seems to have. Because I said, she's not. First of all, I said, she never says anything. And she said, well, just wait. She said, first just wait.

[Christine Schieffer]

That.

[Em Schultz]

Yep. And then she said, also, she seems to have more of, like, a Blaze mindset about things. Like, very. Just kind of, like, analytical and, like, this. That the other, like, things are explainable. And I feel like even with the way that she went upstairs and said, let's just see if he's here. Said, hmm, maybe he's in the walls. Like, just very, like, analytical, matter of fact, kind of like, I feel more.

[Christine Schieffer]

Investigator than tourist, you know?

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. Like, I feel like at that age, I was, like, trying to summon spirits, you know? Yeah. And she's like, I don't know. Is he in here? I don't see him. Anyway, back to Winnie the Pooh or whatever. I. I don't know. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems like she's just kind of, like, nonchalant to be that blase is. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what it is. Anyway, sorry to barge in at the end of our intro, but otherwise you're good. Our birthdays would pass, and I would have probably forgotten all about Mr. Boo Boo. I hope and pray Wouldn't have.

[Christine Schieffer]

I'm. I'm. I would. You'll never happily ask about.

[Em Schultz]

Actually, I'm sure this will become lore now after I've brought it up enough times that Leona will remember, Blaze will remember, and half the neighborhood will apparently remember, so it's too late for me.

[Christine Schieffer]

Okay, well, good luck to you.

[Em Schultz]

But, Jenny, I'm glad you got to witness the birth of Mr. Fuvu. Yeah, it's been an experience.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, I don't envy you, to be honest.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I'll keep you posted.

[Christine Schieffer]

I'm really. I feel like you should just put a camera in that room.

[Em Schultz]

Well, especially with that window. Like, what the fuck? Yeah, I've heard of, like, vibrations from, like, an air conditioner or something moving things Slightly over time, but we've lived here five years, and this has never happened.

[Christine Schieffer]

Defying gravity.

[Em Schultz]

Right. And also, like, we haven't done anything to change that room, so I don't know why it would be opening regularly. All the time.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Yeah. That's very odd. He's being like an actual baby and throwing his toy on the floor. So I'll get it or else on the table.

[Em Schultz]

So he's learning gravity, too.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, everyone, if you hear any sounds back there behind me, it is Hank eating carrots. So enjoy that. That's all. It's the best we could do.

[Em Schultz]

It's exactly what it sounds like. Hank eating carrots.

[Christine Schieffer]

Thank you for humoring me and telling me the whole Leona story, because I. I have been wondering since.

[Em Schultz]

I know. And I feel like it's been haunting me personally, and I haven' Been able to get it off my chest.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know, I really would like you to put a camera somewhere.

[Em Schultz]

I think that's not a bad idea, actually. Like, one of those that just moves. Like, when it senses movement, maybe it starts, you know?

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em Schultz]

I'll be like, leon, I'm sorry I'm dragging your baby camera out of your baby monitor out of here. I need to use. I need to borrow this. So she's still needs to borrow it.

[Christine Schieffer]

How long do kids.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, because. Well, we use it because if she, in the middle of the night is like, I'm thirsty, or like, has a. You know, falls. Has a bad dream or something, but. And because her room's kind of far from ours, so it's like she would have to navigate some stairs to get to us, and we don't want to play that game, so.

[Christine Schieffer]

Fair enough.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. But, yeah, last night, she's like, my camera's not on, so how can I tell you if I'm hungry? And I was like, what the hell?

[Christine Schieffer]

Go to bed, Dweeble. Okay, well, for your birthday, I wanted to look up a story where you would be the main character. So I typed in Christine and ufo.

[Em Schultz]

No way.

[Christine Schieffer]

And then it said, oh, did you mean the UFO abduction of Christina Florence? And I went, sure, absolutely.

[Em Schultz]

You know, Florence is one of my names. My favorite. It's not one of my names. It's one of my favorite names. That was me, actually, that got abducted.

[Christine Schieffer]

No, was it that?

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. No, I. I love that name. Florence. Christina Florence. Okay.

[Christine Schieffer]

Trying to think of any Florences I know, except, like, Mrs. Brady. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Like Aunt Flo.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, yeah.

[Em Schultz]

That kind of ruined it for a while. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, so the Internet Told me I should tell you about Christina Florence. So I'm going to.

[Em Schultz]

I can't wait.

[Christine Schieffer]

Okay. So we start in 1974. Obviously, our main character is Christina Florence. She is 17, and she's on a road trip with her mom and sister. They're driving, I guess, to San Francisco is what once were said. But while driving through the Mojave Desert, their car overheats. Classic. And their mom says, oh, the radiator's broken. I'm gonna go get some water. You guys stay put in the car. I like how, like, thinking of, like, leaving my own dog in a car these days. Leaving your kids in the Mojave Desert.

[Em Schultz]

And literally in the desert. Yeah. In a. Yeah. I mean, really? Yeah. Wow, that's an alarming thought. But, you know.

[Christine Schieffer]

And, like, I don't think they were near a gas station. Like, where is she going to get water?

[Em Schultz]

Well, and it sucks because what do you do? Like, do you take the kids? But then it's like, what if they can't walk all that distance, you know? And it's like, then you can't just leave them halfway, and you can't necessarily carry them. Oh, my God. Now I'm having. Yeah, well, okay.

[Christine Schieffer]

I. I do. I once were. Said that they were by a park, in which case, like, maybe there was like, a fountain nearby or something.

[Em Schultz]

Well, then she'd have some water, right? So.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, so. So they might have been near a park. A park shows up later. So I don't know if the story got twisted and there's a park now when it's actually later. I'm not sure they're in the Mojave Desert or near it. The car overheats, and mom says, I'm gonna go get some water. You guys stay put. While alone in this car, Christina remembers watching her sister get out of the car and walk behind it, I guess to, like, do the pouty teenager thing and, like, lean against the car when she. She's sitting. She's sitting in the car while her sister is leaning up against the back of it outside. And she hears her sister scream. Oh, my God, come out here quick.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, okay. By the way, I'd be like, nope, locking the doors. Is there a rattlesnake? Like, get back in the car. What are you doing?

[Christine Schieffer]

Locking the doors. You're not even welcome back.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah, sorry. You.

[Christine Schieffer]

You made a creative choice.

[Em Schultz]

Yes. You made your creative choice. Now lay in it.

[Christine Schieffer]

So she doesn't remember anything after that, which is wild. Like, immediately, the last thing she heard is, come out here quick. So she didn't even have a chance to do anything.

[Em Schultz]

Jesus. Okay.

[Christine Schieffer]

It was, like, last words. Then she wakes up, and the next thing she knows, her and her sister are laying on a blanket in a park. Like, they were just napping.

[Em Schultz]

I hate that. I hate it a lot, actually.

[Christine Schieffer]

Especially, like, the. As if you were napping tells me that, like, whatever happened knew to make you to at least fake, like, consciousness. Like a lack of consciousness.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yuck. Like, maybe that's what feels disturbing, but it just feels so icky somehow.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, it feels like, like, the aliens had, like, have just. They just heard about dreaming, and they're like, we should make them think they were dreaming.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, that's a great idea. We'll make them think it was all a dream.

[Christine Schieffer]

Did the aliens provide the blanket?

[Em Schultz]

That's what I wonder, too. Like, was it in the car? Was it, like, there? Did they create it? Did they provide it? Like, was it one of their blankets?

[Christine Schieffer]

Even if they. Even if, like, the two of them put the blanket down, Like, I just want to know what the logistics are, but behind, like, the mind control of aliens, where it's like, did they have to, like. Like a sim. Like, write out all of the order of operations of, like, walk to the car, unfold the blanket, put it on the grass? Or were they just, like, I thought they were just gonna get ready.

[Em Schultz]

No. I wonder if they were just placed there.

[Christine Schieffer]

Interesting, right?

[Em Schultz]

Because then they. They didn't go there, right? They just woke up there.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, see, that's where the story gets confusing, because if there was a park in the beginning, then I could see them just, like, waking up next to the car in the park. Yeah, but if they weren't near a park, then how the fuck they get to this park?

[Em Schultz]

And where is this park?

[Christine Schieffer]

And where's the car?

[Em Schultz]

Where's Mom? Help.

[Christine Schieffer]

Where's Mom? Is a great question. Where's that water?

[Em Schultz]

I'm stressed out, man.

[Christine Schieffer]

Okay, so she has this, like, blip of cognizance where she remembers we woke up on this blanket, and apparently, they're still alone. Mom is not there. Great point, by the way. Both of them seem to wake up at the same time, look at each other, and ask what the fuck just happened? So they both.

[Em Schultz]

It's, like, validating and horrible because it's like, oh, the other person is validating that it happened, but also like, oh, the other person's validating this really happened.

[Christine Schieffer]

If you and Zandy had a situation like this. Not exactly. Like, if you both woke up on A blanket. And then realized, like, what the fuck just happened? Would you immediately start divulging or would you both, like, be too scared to even mention it? I feel like, as much as you think you would want to be chatty, I feel like party would be, like, if I think about it, then they're gonna hear me, and I would.

[Em Schultz]

I think there would be a lot of like. Like, shared. Like, shared staring at each other, like, panic. How do we even speak about it? Yeah, you know, it's wild.

[Christine Schieffer]

The two of you are so good at that game. Mind meld. I feel like I wouldn't have to say anything. You just.

[Em Schultz]

Maybe we'd be talking anyway. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

You'd look into each other's eyes and go, yeah. Yes, that happened.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, no.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, so she has this moment, like, okay, boom. I remember waking up on the blanket. We look at each other go, what the hell just happened? Back to not having any memory. So it was just like a. Oops. Like, someone wasn't paying attention to keeping them under.

[Em Schultz]

So it was like we erased that. Ew.

[Christine Schieffer]

And went back to, like, losing a whole lot of time. And she woke up later, and it was her mom is back. All three of them are in the car. They're driving the car, and they're driving it apparently as fast as possible to get out of there.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, okay. So this is alarming. I thought you meant they just woke up on the picnic blanket in the end. The end. But, like, okay, so that was just a brief blip, and then all of a sudden, they're in the car. Ew, this is not good.

[Christine Schieffer]

I really feel like the guy. The alien up there who was, like, supposed to make sure that, like, was supposed to be paying attention to the monitors. Like, they're not remembering anything. Took a bathroom break, and they remembered the blanket thing, and then he went, oh, they remember. And, like, had to reset everything.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ew.

[Christine Schieffer]

So first of all, where was Mom? Like, where's Mom? Like, how did she get back to the car? She obviously saw something too, right?

[Em Schultz]

What?

[Christine Schieffer]

She's driving.

[Em Schultz]

Find them in if she's so freaked out. And, like, what did she say? She.

[Christine Schieffer]

And that makes me wonder, too, like, at some point before mom showed up.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

They are back on the blanket, seemingly no longer going to be touched or bothered. Like, so you would think they're lying on the blanket taking a nap.

[Em Schultz]

Right. Because the memory is them waking up, right. And going, what the fuck just happened?

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

And mom isn't there again, which tells.

[Christine Schieffer]

Me that there's A second round of abductions where Mom's involved because she's panic driving.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, so maybe mom shows up and goes, what the fuck? And then they're like, oh, we have to we up now. We've got to, like.

[Christine Schieffer]

Or maybe there's something like, they. The aliens thought like, oh, we're done with them. Let's let them wake up from a nap. And then decided like, oh, we want to do one more experiment and, like, re beam them up with Mom. I don't know, but mom clearly saw something. If she's driving just as wildly away from that area, she actually at least.

[Em Schultz]

Believes something bad is. Has happened. It sounds like, yeah, I. I wonder.

[Christine Schieffer]

If she was abducted while she was walking, like, to get water for the radiator, or if she, like, came back and witnessed something and then, like, was secondarily abducted.

[Em Schultz]

Right. Like, what if she was not even.

[Christine Schieffer]

What if she just saw them beaming up?

[Em Schultz]

I was gonna say, what if they just saw what she just saw, like, some weird something in the sky and then ran back to the kids and was like, yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Anyway, I'm asking all these questions because none of them ever spoke about it to each other. I wonder, out of. Out of fear? I don't know. I mean, I'd be like, at least one of you has to want to talk about this, right?

[Em Schultz]

I was gonna say it's kind of surprising, but maybe it's like two of them didn't want to talk about it, and one of them was like, well, shit, I guess. Yeah, that decides it for me. I don't know. It's weird that none of them wanted to talk about it, though.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, years later her sister mentions it. It sounds like her sister gets into, like, maybe her sister remembers more than she. Maybe her sister remembers more than she does because it sounds like she had an interest in UFOs and, like, UFO research, something. Yeah. So then she finally felt safe to, like, go to her sister about it or. Sorry, the sister felt safe to go to Christina about it and be like, what do you remember? But Christina was like, I don't remember anything. So, like, basically what I just told you is all she remembers. And the sister was like, well, there's this guy in the UFO world called Bud Hopkins, and he does, like, hypnosis. We should go to him.

[Em Schultz]

Yes.

[Christine Schieffer]

And by we should go to him. The sister said, you should go to him. Why aren't you also attending Sister? Why wait?

[Em Schultz]

I thought you were the one who's interested, right? Yeah, she's already gone.

[Christine Schieffer]

Maybe, but there was no Information about that.

[Em Schultz]

Never mind.

[Christine Schieffer]

Part of me is like, she. Maybe she. I don't know. Because if she remembered enough that she doesn't need hypnosis, she could have filled in the blanks for her sister. But she. Did she want her sister to go maybe to corroborate. Oh, maybe.

[Em Schultz]

You know, like, I want a third party to hear this so that, like.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

That Bud Bud Hopkins can validate it.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe that's it.

[Em Schultz]

No, Like, I don't want to muddy the waters.

[Christine Schieffer]

The worst part about this case is that it was so. It feels so neglected. Like, there's obviously meat there, and nobody's ever covered it. So, like, I really had to go off of, like, four Articles and Unsolved Mysteries, and that's, like, kind of all I had.

[Em Schultz]

I love that Googling my name brought you here.

[Christine Schieffer]

I know. Surprise. So eventually, Christine is like, fine, I'll go see this Bud Hopkins guy. Apparently, he's, like, the father of UFO abduction movement of, like.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I know. I know about him because. Because of astonishing legends.

[Christine Schieffer]

Sure.

[Em Schultz]

The only real reason.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, yeah. So he was the first guy to start collecting a lot of people's stories, especially about missing time. So I guess the sister must have known about him through her interests and said, go to this guy. So Christina meets up with him. Initially, she's hesitant, but she finally agrees to hypnosis. And this is, like, 12 years after it happened, but so she's able to go under during this hypnosis session. And she gets back to the car that her and her sister are sitting in when her sister gets out and says, come here quick.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, God. Okay.

[Christine Schieffer]

Christina now remembers that she got out of the car, she looked up at what her sister was pointing at and saw something silver floating in the sky. And she didn't know why, because she wasn't really sure what she was seeing. She just knew it was silver and, like, the sun was reflecting off of it. But she doesn't really know what she saw, but she remembers feeling incredible dread.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, I don't like that.

[Christine Schieffer]

To a point. And her sister must have felt it too, because both of them, like, sprint to the car, get in the car. She remembers her sister hiding under the dashboard.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, wow. So she's immediately remembering, like, details like cower.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Her sister's cowering in fear. She's trying to start the car. Obviously, it's broken. I love that they're gonna ditch Mom. They're like, I don't know where she is. She lost her chance.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. She can jump on the Roof as we pass her.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. So she remembers struggling, trying to turn the car on, feeling scared, and then immediately still blacking out in the hypnosis, which makes me think that maybe that was like the aliens doing to like make sure that you couldn't remember something.

[Em Schultz]

Right.

[Christine Schieffer]

But she immediately then remembers going from being in the car trying to turn it on to being on a table surrounded by grays.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, no. Earlier when you said laying together on a blanket, I was like, hooray. And now I'm like, oh, this is coming. Okay, good, great.

[Christine Schieffer]

Nope, they were laying on. They're. Now she is laying on a table. Her sister's not in the room with her.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, okay. They're not even together. Oh, God.

[Christine Schieffer]

Guess who's back. Hank. No, we're going to have to include.

[Em Schultz]

We're going to have to make a new theme song with thanks. Like, scratching or something.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, good. Yeah, it'll just be me screaming.

[Em Schultz]

Actually, it'll be your like high pitched dog mom voice or whatever you said earlier. Sounds like his mom.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. So let me see. Incredible dread. Leave mom behind. Oh, yeah. So, and I'm saying, great. She didn't say gray aliens, but I saw like a picture of like a sketch that she did. And I mean, it's the exact quintessential alien.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

So she's in the room without her sister. The room is spherical is the way she described it. Had no corners, just like an infinity room. And wherever the walls were.

[Em Schultz]

Feels like your VR goggles.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Em Schultz]

You know when you're like in that.

[Christine Schieffer]

Sphere and the walls, which is interesting because it sounds like there weren't any walls, but the space surrounding her, I guess, were covered in dials. That's what she remembers. Just a bunch of dials surrounding her.

[Em Schultz]

Creepy.

[Christine Schieffer]

So she remembers also what today would be considered a flat screen TV. That they didn't exist yet in 1974. But it was paper thin. A paper thin flat screen tv. And it had no wires or cords. It was just floating in the air. Oh, my dream.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my dream. You know, I've said this a million times. There is no way they don't somewhere have the technology to make things cordless.

[Christine Schieffer]

They do. It's on planet Glorp.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, exactly. We should have known. Xenon and our fucking frappuccinos have. Has had our hands on that.

[Christine Schieffer]

Can you imagine what a fucking. Sorry. Can you imagine what a fucking sorority sister you are, by the way, when you get abducted by aliens and you're strapped down to a table, surrounded by dials. And gray aliens. And then you see a flat screen TV come through without a cord. And then she just screams under like medication. My dream. My dream.

[Em Schultz]

Oh my God.

[Christine Schieffer]

Finally. I knew it.

[Em Schultz]

I knew it was real. I knew someday I'd get to have one for myself.

[Christine Schieffer]

They had to look around and be like, oh, she's a. She's a cracker. Yeah, yeah. So this flat screen TV is paper thin and it. It seems like it's more of a camera than a flat screen TV because it's floating by itself, but it moves around her and feels like it seems like it's taking 3D pictures.

[Em Schultz]

Scanning. That's so gross.

[Christine Schieffer]

When looking at the screen while lying down, she could see the screen and she was able to see, quote, three dimensional shapes of her skull and body. So it feels like it was maybe like a floating X ray.

[Em Schultz]

Do an mri. Yeah, just a quick X ray.

[Christine Schieffer]

So she remembers. She remembers the dial, she remembers the screen. She remembers the gray aliens and lying on a table, but she also remembers them pulling on her legs.

[Em Schultz]

Oh.

[Christine Schieffer]

And she didn't know why, but in hindsight, she says it felt like they were putting on rubber pants on her.

[Em Schultz]

Oh my God. What?

[Christine Schieffer]

And the rubber pants felt like they had attachments all over them. So maybe it was like a.

[Em Schultz]

Some sort of.

[Christine Schieffer]

In my mind, it's like when you get an X ray and they put like that big sheet on top of you, like that big heavy.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, the. That thing.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, I feel like it was that protect from the.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, but pants. Oh, they were like, let's protect those knees.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Well, it sounds like. Well, it sounds more like it was like had like electrodes attached to it, like in.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Or something to connect to the dials.

[Em Schultz]

Rubber hat. A rubber head. What are they called? Hazmat caps. Those rubber caps with like wires coming out.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Strangers.

[Christine Schieffer]

Like a brain scan.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah, I feel like that seems like sort of similar. Maybe they thought the legs were her brain. Maybe they got confused. They thought like, maybe let's put it on her brain. That's not her brain.

[Christine Schieffer]

Can you imagine living on a planet where your TVs don't have cords, but your pants do?

[Em Schultz]

But you don't know how to put on pants.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, it's crazy. Your pants are made of rubber. Talk about not breathable.

[Em Schultz]

Woof. Yeah, that's why that's. You know what?

[Christine Schieffer]

Corded swamp ass.

[Em Schultz]

Are you kidding me? What would I trade corded pants for? Cordless for a cordless world? Not rubber, but maybe cord. Corded. Maybe rubber. No, Way in hell.

[Christine Schieffer]

No way in hell. Yeah, that sounds awful. Like just. Just galoshes that end at your waist.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I don't even wear pants in general, so rubber ones are not happening.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, at some point, the aliens all leave the room. So now she's by herself in these stupid rubber pants. At least no one can see how bad her fashion is. And at some point she asks about her sister, though, and she goes, either where's my sister? Is my sister okay? I can't imagine the panic.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

And she. Someone, I guess, comes over, or she hears it in her head or she hears it in the room. It's not very clear, but someone responds to her and says, your sister is okay.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, that's nice. Now. Now I have Stockholm syndrome. I'm like, oh, they're so nice. Oh, my gosh. Stay a little good to my legs.

[Christine Schieffer]

I like how they also aren't talking about her mom. I wonder if, if mom got abducted at all. Did they even know that they were all related?

[Em Schultz]

Maybe that's why they abducted her. They're like, there's a third.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. I don't know. There's so many questions that I need to talk to these aliens about.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

So she hears that her sister's okay. And pretty much right after that, she remembers the dials on the walls all moving, are all moving by themselves. Like the, like spinning, turning the dials all freaking out. And before she knew it, she woke up on the blanket in the park with her sister.

[Em Schultz]

Jesus. I mean, this is like sci fi. Like, this is scary.

[Christine Schieffer]

This was all, like I said, figured out through Bud's hypnosis treatment. But apparently there is just so much that was never properly unpacked on the Internet. Which, like, I'm all for, like, privacy if you don't want someone to know about this. However, as someone who was trying to research it, they. Every source I found gave me a vague little throw it under the rug moment that requires such deeper research.

[Em Schultz]

So it's like giving you, like, crumbs.

[Christine Schieffer]

Teasing.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. Teasing you. Yeah. That's not fair.

[Christine Schieffer]

For example, one news segment had about a three second clip, not even of audio, from one of the hypnosis sessions. And Christina is saying, this is a quote from Christina. It was like a dummy birth. It's like fake. But the baby's real and they're real and I'm real. What?

[Em Schultz]

And we don't. We are not just supposed to figure that out.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's just a random clip that I have no other context for.

[Em Schultz]

Like, I had to say one More time. It's like a yes birthday.

[Christine Schieffer]

Talk about burying the lead. Like, okay, you're on a table with dials. But like, I have to hear this with no elaboration. It's like a dummy birth. It's like fake, but the baby's real and they're real and I'm real. Girl, that sounds like a real birth.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I was gonna say that. Actually.

[Christine Schieffer]

If everyone's real, it's a real birth. What the is that about? So in the same segment, this is like a news clipping. A news like a. Very quickly they say that Christina told Christina and then apparently others that Bud has interviewed in the past. Christina and others have told Bud that while they were up there, they were shown babies by the aliens with the heavy suggestion that these babies were theirs.

[Em Schultz]

So that they wait their own.

[Christine Schieffer]

Like, their own. Like Christina was shown a baby by the aliens and like, here's the baby we just created through you.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, God. Okay, so it wasn't like, here's your future baby. It's like, here's what we're doing.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So. And also like, where the is that baby now? Is there just like a half human living in glorp.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, gosh.

[Christine Schieffer]

Maybe ask Leon.

[Em Schultz]

I'll text her.

[Christine Schieffer]

This information is so like, again, as someone who's trying to research it to tell everyone the full story, it feels so neglected and understudied as a case. Bud obviously adds to the theory that it's a very long run theory that most abductions are somehow involved in like reproductive testing. Because so many people have said something similar of like they, I was an incubator or they were trying to use our DNA. They're trying to combine our DNA or whatever it is.

[Em Schultz]

Test. Yeah. Oh, so creepy.

[Christine Schieffer]

But also that makes me think again about those rubber pants. Like, was that just like a. Instead of nine months, it takes five minutes to like have a baby.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, here we are making fun of rubber pants. And we could skip a whole pregnancy. I mean, I don't know.

[Christine Schieffer]

Or like, then. Because time and space I'll never know anything about. It's like, were you up there for nine months having a fucking point?

[Em Schultz]

Maybe time's different. You're right.

[Christine Schieffer]

And they just put you back over here in.

[Em Schultz]

The thought of that is terrible. That's really scary.

[Christine Schieffer]

Imagine being blacked out and losing your memory for No, a whole like, conception, pregnancy, birth.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, this on every level. Just really bad.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. And also like, so it's not like.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, now you're pregnant and you have to go home it's like, oh, the baby's staying here. Is that what they were saying?

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, I guess so. Or they just sh. All the quote was was showed us the babies and it was implied that they were ours.

[Em Schultz]

So maybe when she says, like, it was a dummy birth, she means, like, there wasn't a real birth. It was just sort of like, okay, here's a real baby.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's yours. Or maybe like, yeah, maybe the birth just like it's.

[Em Schultz]

It There wasn't.

[Christine Schieffer]

Goes differently there.

[Em Schultz]

Or like, Like a fake birth.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Like it didn't come out from her, maybe. But like, she.

[Christine Schieffer]

I mean, she definitely doesn't remember giving birth, which is so. Yeah, there's something going on there. Interesting and also horrific and also, like, this would be such a violation. And this would be a very intimate question to. With a million different answers. But I wonder how she and others handle that, thinking, like, maybe I have a baby somewhere.

[Em Schultz]

It's like, so traumatic. And then you imagine, like, you say that to one person who takes it wrong, it makes you feel, you know, I mean, that's like, got to be a horrible, lonely, scary thought.

[Christine Schieffer]

Or like, what if you are on the opposite side and you're like, that was like, nothing but a violation. Like, I want to do with that baby. Slash, what if you're thinking, I want nothing to do with that baby, but what if they can, like, now keep tabs on.

[Em Schultz]

I don't want to be part of it. Right, Exactly. Like, I would want to just forget it, you know?

[Christine Schieffer]

Or the other parent. Sorry, I didn't interrupt you there. No, no, the other paranoia I'd have as I. In my hypothetical spiraling, as we're now really upset. It's like, what if, like, I accidentally created, like, the world's best hybrid baby and now you're going to keep abducting me to do the same thing?

[Em Schultz]

I was like, oh, what if I was too. What if I did? I was too good?

[Christine Schieffer]

What if I'm incred. Credible genetically?

[Em Schultz]

What if, like, I just made the perfect child?

[Christine Schieffer]

What if I made a God? What if I am God? No. Then you make destroyed.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Or what if you make the worst and they want that to be studied? Like, whatever. Like, they just keep coming back to.

[Em Schultz]

What if this was a successful procedure in whatever way they wanted? Or, like, they can clearly access. They've clearly accessed you before. Like, yeah, maybe they know where you are. I honestly that all of that is so horrible. I mean, and this is like sexual assault we're talking about, I'm assuming. Or if I would imagine what's. What has happened or implied at least, like some sort of very, very intimate violation. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

I don't know. Yeah. I couldn't tell you if it was sexual, but it's certainly an assault.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

On your. On your body.

[Em Schultz]

That's probably the best way to put.

[Christine Schieffer]

Certainly feels sexual based on, like, how we operate. Right.

[Em Schultz]

Maybe that's our perception. Right.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Yikes. So Bud Hopkins jumps in and confirms in this little segment, like, yeah, not only Christina, but others. And like, this is a very common thing that we think reproductive testing's involved. There's one psycho psychologist in the UFO fields named Susan Fox, and she also said that she believes Christina and all these other people because there's a quote from her that most women she speaks to who've been abducted have gynecological issues later.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, what?

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, she said it's, like a common thing. She said this. This is a quote from her. Every time I meet one of these people, I say, what's your history? Like your. And your. Like your health history.

[Em Schultz]

Sure.

[Christine Schieffer]

And there is always. There's almost always something like ovarian cancer at a very young age, an ovarian cyst that bursts an ovary was removed, or some kind of strange thing with twisted fallopian tubes.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, I thought we were just talking like, a very, like, not basic, but, like, yeast infections. I didn't know we were talking, like, literally a horrible health.

[Christine Schieffer]

Like, almost as if, like, in my mind, that feels like a. Like a. Like a radiation poisoning from being up there or something. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Some sort of something went haywire.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. In a procedure. They, like, messed with my stuff. Yeah. They were also, quote. I think this was a Christina quote jumping in about, like, all these women having issues that claim that they've been abducted, and then they remember some sort of pregnancy or birth situation.

[Em Schultz]

Right.

[Christine Schieffer]

Another quote says a lot of us women have had false pregnancies, miscarriages, abortions, and abortions where there was actually nothing found. Holy. Like, someone they. They paid for the procedure probably to be like, get this alien out of me, maybe.

[Em Schultz]

Oh, my God.

[Christine Schieffer]

And then nothing was there. Yeah. So again, we are talking about either, like, definitely something supernatural or, like, there's like a. A big category of an illness that we need to be paying attention to.

[Em Schultz]

It's hard to dismiss something when it's so many people, you know.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Christina said in multiple interviews that this did really happen, and she is, like, the last person on earth who would want any UFO experience at all. And, like, despite her not wanting to believe this she knows that she's not crazy. But when asked about. They talked to Bud Hopkins again. They're like, given your research, what do you think the possibility is of extraterrestrials? And this is a quote from Bud that they ended on, which was like, a little chilling. The numbers of cases, the amount of emotional distress, the consistency of the accounts, the physical marks, the weight of the evidence. It's so powerful that even if I wished for the luxury of disbelief, it's not possible for me anymore. Holy.

[Em Schultz]

Even if I wished for the luxury of disbelief. Wow.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

That is. He. That is terrifying, dude. That's terrifying. He's like, I can't even pretend that I am. Like, don't believe it.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, God.

[Em Schultz]

That's not chilling. That's chilling.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's Christina Florence. I mean, it's like, in some ways, I feel like she. Maybe for her, she got what she wanted. But I would still have a million questions, which I'm sure is common after any hypnosis therapy of like, did I help myself or did I give myself anything to spiral about?

[Em Schultz]

Good point. And is it, like, better for me, worse for me? Yeah. And like, health wise now, is it like, oh, my God, that would be so violating, though, to feel like the rest of your life you have, like.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Unanswered questions, A and B, like, these health issues that you can't understand. It's just horrible.

[Christine Schieffer]

Especially if, like, you're. Let's say Christina didn't sound like she had any gynecological issues.

[Em Schultz]

Right.

[Christine Schieffer]

To know the stats of other people who have a similar experience having problems, I'd be like, am I next? Like, when does that happen?

[Em Schultz]

Should I be looking out for, like, should I? But I don't want to be, like, hyper aware. Oh, my God in heaven, this is so freaky. And then anything that happens, you'd be like, is that related to it? You know?

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, the paranoia for the rest of your life. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Well, thanks for that.

[Christine Schieffer]

You're welcome. Happy birthday.

[Em Schultz]

Thank you. I have a terrible story for you too, so Happy birthday to you.

[Christine Schieffer]

All right.

[Em Schultz]

Hey, you know what I never have said before until this year?

[Christine Schieffer]

What?

[Em Schultz]

Hey, grocery shopping is super easy and fun and I never forget anything.

[Christine Schieffer]

To say that after you're married with kids and pets is crazy like it.

[Em Schultz]

Is, but it's finally happened. But it's only because I'm not doing any shopping. It seems either blaze or hungry Root. And they don't ever forget anything. And they always surprise me with fun delights. It's a way better way of life.

[Christine Schieffer]

100 hungry root takes the stress out of grocery shopping by filling your cart with personalized selections that get smarter with every order. From smoothies and kids snacks to sweets, salad kits, supplements and more, there's something for every taste and nutrition goal. You have your palate, your husband's palate, your kids palette and all of it's chandeled.

[Em Schultz]

All of it's, all of it's handled and it's all different. And I Liana, you know, she likes to be a little picky and so it's kind of funny how it like adapts. Like I'm like, oh, she doesn't really eat these anymore. And it's like, oh, they already kind of figured that out because I didn't order. It's just kind of amazing. I love Hungry Root. They're it's like a catered personal shopper delivered groceries to your door. You know, it's, it's pretty cool.

[Christine Schieffer]

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[Em Schultz]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink that's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Hungryroot.com/drink code Drink everybody.

[Christine Schieffer]

A fly just almost flew right into my mouth. And if you're craving your own next.

[Em Schultz]

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[Christine Schieffer]

Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command. From electrifying suspense like Will the Bug get in My Mouth or Not? And daring quests like the Bug getting into someone's mouth to spine tingling horror like the Mouth. The bugging in My Mouth. You remember the mouth. You can unleash your adventure aside with with any of that. With gripping titles that keep you guessing exclusive captivating Audible originals and hotly anticipated new releases.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, there are also a lot of bestsellers on there. Of course. The ones that hook you from the first minute like the There was an old Amity who Swallowed a Fly. That's one of my favorites. But no, they actually do have some really awesome suspense. The Audible original Mad Love I have on my wish list a fantasy romance adventure like Onyx Storm. They have like Stephen King's latest Never Flinch, which of course I'm going to be listening to and freedom Frida McFadden. So we've got all sorts of adventures and thrills at our fingertips here.

[Christine Schieffer]

Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into the world of new thrills. Visit audible.com drink or text DRINK to 500. 500.

[Em Schultz]

That's audible.com drink or text drink to 500. 500 hundred. All right, so this is the story of the murder of Jabez Span. And welp, it's just sad. So happy birthday.

[Christine Schieffer]

Great.

[Em Schultz]

And it begins August 28, 2017. And we're going to start, unfortunately with a different person. Here we have 31 year old Travis Combs. And in Sarasota, Florida, he had been shot and killed on August 28, 2017. Travis lived in Newtown, which is an era. It's a historical black community in Sarasota that grew from the community of Overtown and Overtown, which I've never heard of, or Newtown. Have you?

[Christine Schieffer]

I like that they, I think they just called it Newtown because they're like, this is the new one because there's.

[Em Schultz]

So much new ones here.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, overspill from Overtown.

[Em Schultz]

That's a really good point. Yeah, I guess I live in Newport. It's like, no, not the old port, the Newport, you know? Yeah, just really wild. So they lived in Newtown or Travis had lived in Newtown. And this came from this, this community called Overtown. Now I have a description of Overtown here from newtownalive.org which describes Overtown as the first neighborhood established by African American people in Sarasota. And from Overtown grew Newtown, where according to that same website, residents depend on each other for medical and social services by establishing self help and benevolent organizations. So it's like this kind of self sufficient community and it's known as having a lot of mutual support among residents and it's still that way today. So when I give you that background, just to say when Travis Combs was shot and killed, this like was a huge shock to the community. He also had a four year old son. And so it just really hit the community very hard. To make matters more painful, his killers were still at large and unnamed as well. And so in the wake of this tragedy, Newtown residents held a candlelight vigil to honor Travis. And one of the attendees at the vigil was 14 year old Jabez Spann. And I've unfortunately already told you that this is the story of his murder.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. So he was just. He was. Their connection is. He was at the vigil.

[Em Schultz]

He was at the vigil.

[Christine Schieffer]

Exactly.

[Em Schultz]

Thank you for following that. I was like, I don't know if this is gonna make sense.

[Christine Schieffer]

No, I. It's not your telling, it's my listening I just.

[Em Schultz]

No, no, I'm glad you figured it out because that's exactly how it went. So the way they knew each other, their connection is that he's at the, at the vigil. But Jabez also was Travis's neighbor. He lived in Newtown with his grandmother Lucille, and his mother, Tawana lived in Tampa, which I guess is pretty close by. So his grandma and mother would co parent job as. And he grew up with like two very safe and loving homes. So it was almost like they split custody. But, like, both of them were awesome places for him to be. And he was very much a grandma's boy. I don't know if that's a thing, but that's what he seemingly was. Apparently his dream was to one day buy a home for his grandma because she had given him a home. And it's just like this.

[Christine Schieffer]

Wow, that's heart wrenching.

[Em Schultz]

Okay, it is, yes. He also was passionate about football and he hoped to play football in college someday and of course dreamed of then going pro. And Tawana said although every parent believes their child is a star, he actually did have the skill to become an athlete and was like so driven and competitive that they actually thought he might be able to pull it off. And I love the way that she described this. I didn't want to like, leave in too much just description, but I love this quote. His mom said that Jabez, everything he did, he just exploded in doing it. Like, he just like went, you know.

[Christine Schieffer]

All, wow, like full, full pride and support and belief.

[Em Schultz]

Right, right. He was caring, he was patient, though. He was also a teacher's assistant at school and he helped other, like, tutor other kids and he helped, you know, it's of course, this kid that of.

[Christine Schieffer]

Course is lit up a room.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, I know. Beloved and everything. His stepfather also is pre close with him and said he had a protective spirit. And it was sad to see his stepdad start crying and say, like, it was such a, such a cool experience to be in his life, but I will always mourn. Like, not being able to watch him grow into a man, it was just like sad, sad on every level, of course. And so now here we are, Monday, September 4, and the memorial vigil is being held. So Jabez leaves his grandmother's house for Travis's vigil. It was Labor Day, and after the vigil, he planned to go to a cookout and play basketball with his friends. So while he's out, he runs into his uncle and his nephew and he played with his nephew for a bit and Told his uncle and his nephew, hey, I'm gonna come home by around 5:30 this evening. And he never showed. So his aunt, Latoya Jakes thought, okay, maybe he's out with friends. He was going to play basketball. And he's a responsible kid. You know, he's. But he's 14, so maybe he lost track of time and forgot to call and forgot how worried be. So they didn't want to panic right away. And that's also because even because they were just at this vigil for Travis's murder. Newtown was where Jabez grew up. It's where he lived. He was totally secure. He knew everybody. Like, this wasn't a place where he felt dangerous or where his family felt he was dangerous. So they felt safe in Newtown. They never expected anything horrible to happen. They felt like they got more support from the people of Sarasota than anywhere else in the country. And. And they just didn't. Didn't ever imagine leaving. And so Jabez was surrounded by people that they trusted. But of course, hours are ticking by. They're not hearing from him, and his grandma's getting worried. And when he doesn't come home at all, and then the next morning when he doesn't show up at school, which is very much unlike him, they freak the out.

[Christine Schieffer]

Sure.

[Em Schultz]

Yep. So Tawana is terrified. His mom, she speeds to town from Tampa and she starts scouring Newtown for her son. She was really close with all of his friends. She knew all of his friends. And so she went straight to their houses, knocked on their doors. She spoke to their parents, she spoke to everyone she knew. She checked all of his hangouts, and they even checked on his Facebook and saw that there had been no activity for over a day. And this was apparently very unusual. He was always on there messaging with people. And the fact that he was kind of MIA from Facebook was a huge red flag. And, ooh, I have chills, because this part just shocked me a little bit. It was kind of scary. So she's questioning all the neighbors. She. She knows somebody must have known something or somebody must have a clue.

[Christine Schieffer]

And it was a small enough, like, community.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. And she talks to people. Yeah, exactly. And like a real. They all did know each other. And so late that night, she finally found someone she knew had been with him that night, had been with Jabez the night before he was last seen. And she said, can you just tell me anything? Like, tell me which way did he go? Or who did he leave with anything? And the guy says, I don't have anything to do with what happened to Jabez?

[Christine Schieffer]

That's, like, not at all what I wanted to hear, but okay.

[Em Schultz]

My stomach dropped when I heard that. And she, of course.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. Panics.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. Floored. And she says, what do you mean, what happened to Javez? Like, what do you mean by that? And he refused to talk, so she drove straight to the police station. It sounds like she barely even got herself there because she said she somehow made it to the police station, and she just collapsed in front of the door.

[Christine Schieffer]

Duh.

[Em Schultz]

I mean, she's been up all day, like, scouring the town, I'm sure. Not eating, drinking, you know.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, to hear what happened to him, and also, he's not getting back to you. I just. At that point, you just assume.

[Em Schultz]

But it's, like, the worst, right?

[Christine Schieffer]

I mean, and when you're saying, can you tell me anything about what happened? And the first sentence is, like, defensive of, like, it wasn't me to do with it. It wasn't me. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

And it's one of his friends. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's like, well, then obviously you must know.

[Em Schultz]

You must know something.

[Christine Schieffer]

Who then? But you're. You at least know what happened if you're telling us that you didn't do it.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. You know, something happened.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. So why couldn't you say that? Interesting.

[Em Schultz]

I think he probably misspoke because he probably assumed she knew or something, you know, and clearly she did not. Oh. So that's very chilling. She goes the police station. She collapses at the door. And police unofficially declared Jabez, of course, a runaway and refused to issue an Amber Alert.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, great.

[Em Schultz]

So they went back home and said, great. What else is new? Let's do this ourselves. And so Jabez's family and friends gathered their search supplies and their search parties. They organized people in groups, and they were able to search the neighborhood. But not only that, they searched the woods, the swamps, the bayous around Sarasota, everything. Yeah. And. And one of the things that I kind of noted as well about Tawana, it was just also heartbreaking. She said, I'm scared of snakes. My fear of snakes and spiders went out the window. I used to walk through the woods and literally say to Jabez, just tell me where you are. Just tell me where you are.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, yeah. Yeah. I was also gonna say, you're going through the swamps of Florida. Like, think of the desperation to, like.

[Em Schultz]

Just go into, like, theater anymore. She was like, it just went out the window. I didn't care. And it's like, if you're walking through snakes and gators and it's, it's, it's the distraught. Yeah. And the other thing I wanted to mention, which I don't know if you remember this, but there was this one episode we, we or I covered this story ages ago and we both were like really struck by one part that was like. Like the dad saying that his daughter, he and his daughter were like the only ones they had and she had been killed. And he said he was so shocked because he always thought he would have known or like felt her if she left or like he said he couldn't find her and he felt like he had somehow messed up because he thought he was supposed to understand from her, like spiritually or whatever. And that for some reason, like who. I have chills again. That like hit me so hard back then. And I feel like that somehow reminded me, reminded me of that. That when I read, you know, I was walking, just saying, just tell me anything. Where are you? Just tell me where to go.

[Christine Schieffer]

Give me some closure.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, tell me what to do. It's really, really awful. Anyway, so they're going all over, they're searching these dangerous areas. Tawana even lied to her husband job as a stepdad about going to work because. And then he found her like out in, in the swamp, you know, and she had called off work but she didn't want him to like, like worry or you know, stop her. And so she would be doing this alone just for days, days. And she ventured so deep sometimes she would literally bring a machete with her and he would find her with a machete and a flashlight. Just like.

[Christine Schieffer]

I can't imagine just being so desperate.

[Em Schultz]

It's horrible. After three days of the family's non stop searching and advocating for Jabez, the police finally issued a missing child alert on September 8, which was. Was four days after he was last seen. And the timing could not have been worse, literally, because guess what was hurdling their way? Hurricane Irma.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh my God.

[Em Schultz]

And that's one that I think we remember was.

[Christine Schieffer]

I can't even imagine the horror of late night being like, now it's going to what? Wherever evidence is, it's going to get moved. Yeah, that's what I would first thought.

[Em Schultz]

If we even make it through this. Right? Right.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. If we survive. Wherever his body currently is it, I'll never find it.

[Em Schultz]

It might never happen now. There might never be closure. And she was really like. It was really the worst possible timing. And so they had just seen the effects of Hurricane Harvey, which had Devastated Texas. And so in Florida, people were really freaked out because they had just seen Hurricane Harvey come through, and now Hurricane Irma is coming right afterward. And so they're calling this, you know, emergency state, emergency state in Florida, and people are, you know, buying out the toilet paper, like, panic stricken. That's all the news is about. Right. So, of course, this gets completely sidelined for the major news. Breaking news about the hurricane. Millions fled in what became one of the largest evacuations in US History. Which was part of the Irma story.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

The story of one missing teenager was completely buried by news segments about the storm, which made landfall, caused a state of emergency on September 10th. And that was two days after police finally, like, approved the search or the. The missing child report. It wasn't until September 18, which was two weeks after he had gone missing, that they issued a second missing child alert. And again, this is in the wake of. Of all of the hurricane stuff. And finally, Jeff. As his disappearance gained some attention in the news cycle and police began actually doing some work to investigate it, they searched a neighborhood where his phone had last sent information to a cell tower, but there was Nothing there. On September 26, Sarasota police held a news conference, and they said the investigation was being impeded by a lack of cooperation from Jabez's community. And it's like, you, you know, like, off. That really pisses me off. Like.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

You waited four days.

[Christine Schieffer]

Disgusting.

[Em Schultz]

For a child who's 14.

[Christine Schieffer]

Like, like, when. Yeah. And we've been asking this whole time.

[Em Schultz]

And. And you're. And they're supposed to suddenly trust you.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Like, you.

[Christine Schieffer]

You.

[Em Schultz]

You didn't. You didn't.

[Christine Schieffer]

I feel like at this point, don't even help.

[Em Schultz]

Like, exactly. It's like, again, let's do it ourselves. It's just really horrible. I mean, obviously, this is complicated.

[Christine Schieffer]

They.

[Em Schultz]

They've been historically underserved, abused, let's say, by city government. This is not somebody. They're not going to run into their open arms, you know.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

And to make matters worse, Jabez's stepfather said that Newtown had recently become burdened with gang activity. And of course, now people are getting fearful. Like, they don't want the cops coming by. They don't want. They have their own children to protect, you know, like, they don't even want to get involved. It's like, it's just messy. And so because of this, the police are like, well, we can't do anything.

[Christine Schieffer]

And.

[Em Schultz]

And Jabez's family believed that it was that fear of, like, getting embroiled in any of this scandal or what have you or violence that from coming forward.

[Christine Schieffer]

I was gonna say, because with all this, like new gang activity in the area.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's like you don't want to also sully his name of like he was in. He was a bad kid or whatever. It's like this sounds like it came before all that, but it's gonna get muddied up with that.

[Em Schultz]

He was the opposite, you know, and it's like, like, yeah, yeah. So people were really just trying to keep themselves out of it for better, for worse, and people just weren't coming forward even though there was a six thousand dollar reward. So in early October, the FBI added another nineteen thousand dollars to the reward to make it 25 grand. But still nobody spoke up.

[Christine Schieffer]

Wow, like, why isn't anyone handcuffing that guy who said, I haven't done anything?

[Em Schultz]

Seriously? I'm like, can we talk to him again?

[Christine Schieffer]

Like, at least handcuff him to interrogate him?

[Em Schultz]

At least ask him a question like.

[Christine Schieffer]

How did he get away with saying that? And then nobody had a follow up question.

[Em Schultz]

I don't know, maybe that's crazy. Said, I won't talk. I don't know.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's crazy. Okay.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. A private investigator named Joseph Randall volunteered to help Jabez's family when he saw the story on the news and he knew that he knew about Newtown. And he said, there is no way in hell this kid disappeared from Newtown without a trace. Like, like you're saying, there is no way that, like, they can't find information from somebody.

[Christine Schieffer]

Especially, especially when everyone's close and so everyone, like someone knows something if something happened and something did happen.

[Em Schultz]

And so this PI is like, step aside. I'm. I'm coming in to figure out what's going on. So on top of that, the Florida Outdoor Advertising association donated digital billboard space in Sarasota county to advertise the case and keep it in the public eye. So that was good. And through October, suddenly Tijuana was being flooded with tips because of this exposure in the media. And she pursued, of course, every single one.

[Christine Schieffer]

Sure.

[Em Schultz]

And if, like, of course she would, and if she didn't follow, if she wasn't able to follow a tip herself, she would send it on to Joseph Randall, the PI or one of the detectives to do the, to do that work for her. So she's like basically first line of defense, you know. In late October, FBI agents, Sarasota police and Florida Department of Law Enforcement canvas Sarasota residents again with no success. Jabez's family went over thousands of hours of social media posts and live streams trying to keep track of the whereabouts of anybody who was a person of interest. I'm assuming also that one kid who was with them the night before. So they were just keeping tabs themselves. And they were desperate just for any, like, hint of an information that could link someone to Jabba. And they continued to form search parties. This one man named Wayne Washington organized searches every single week. And he didn't even know Jabez, but he had moved. He was just so moved by, like, being a father, being part of the community and seeing what had happened that he knew he wanted to step up. And Jabez's family was grateful for the support until they realized that some of the volunteers were considered persons of interest by detectives.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh. Oh.

[Em Schultz]

Law enforcement believed that some potential suspects joined the searches to keep tabs on where the volunteer groups were, like, looking and stuff.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah. So, like, get intel on their intel.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Like, how much do you know? What, how can I redirect you to go over here?

[Em Schultz]

Which is always the creepiest thing to me. And if I feel like it happens in a lot of those crime dramas where, like, the person will be on the search team, like, it just really gives me the creep.

[Christine Schieffer]

Especially because there is that trope of, like, always coming back to the scene of the crime.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, it gives me the creeps, man. And so that's when they were saying, like, you know, we don't think everybody here is doing this out of the goodness of their heart. And so instead, Jabez's family decided to just start conducting private search efforts and not like having these big community ones. During one search, Joe Jabez's stepdad noticed a man riding back and forth on a bike. And he noticed that this guy looked like he kind of had something to say, but he wasn't sure whether to stop. So finally he kind of caught his eye. The guy stopped. He's a 55 year old Newtown resident named Reggie, or Reginald. He told the family and the PI, Joseph Randall, that Jabez had witnessed a murder days before he disappeared. Weird. Reggie says Travis Combs was killed in a robbery gone wrong near Jabez's home. And they're like, we know he was going to the vigil that day. As the attackers escaped in a car, apparently Reggie, this guy on the bike, saw Jabez run away shouting, oh, my God, y' all shot him.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, so now he's collateral damage.

[Em Schultz]

Yes.

[Christine Schieffer]

So did they, like, do A drive by or what did they. Well, you're gonna tell me.

[Em Schultz]

I'll tell you. Reggie named individuals who may have been involved in Jabez's disappearance. And Tawana's heart sank because when he said the names, she knew those people, and she knew that they were people Jabez trusted.

[Christine Schieffer]

And were they on the search party?

[Em Schultz]

They were. I don't know that they were on the search party, but they were at least in his friend group. And so it felt really, really, really bad.

[Christine Schieffer]

I would imagine they're on the search party, so it'd be weird if your own friends.

[Em Schultz]

If your friends weren't. I agree. So Tawana's heart sank. She knew he grew up with these people and he would have felt safe with them. So he wouldn't have, like, maybe seen a red flag before it was too late. So Joseph, the PI and the family reported Reggie's story to the police, who hoped Reggie would make an official statement that would allow them to arrest and question the suspect. And so November 7, the police picked up Reggie on an unrelated charge, and they pressured him to make a statement about Travis Combs and how he claimed this was linked to Jabez. But Reggie refused. He insisted he had never spoken to Jabez's family. I mean, now he's scared, and he does not want to rat himself out here. So he's saying, I never spoke to them about it. It's all lies.

[Christine Schieffer]

Right.

[Em Schultz]

And so the police brought Tawana and her family in to speak with Reggie, being like, hey, here, tell him what you told us. And she's like, you said this, that the other. And he says, nope, I didn't, and just refuses to talk. So.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, my.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. Complicated. Police charge Reggie with accessory to murder after the fact, claiming he was impeding the investigation of Travis's death. And the PI was like, I mean, I understand why he stayed silent. Like, this is a scary thing to be ratting people out for. He gave the names of people who were involved in Chabez's disappearance, or at least that he thought were. And the suspects were very violent people, obviously, because they're linked to these murders. So Reggie was scared. And even the PI was like, I. I sort of get it.

[Christine Schieffer]

I would.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah. Travis's Aunt Teresa said in an interview that if Reggie did know something, he felt way too unsafe to make an official statement. He just wanted to pass the information along. Wrong. So Travis's aunt visited Reggie while he was in jail, and he cried when she told him that her family did not blame him for what happened to Travis, and that he had their love and support, and the charges against him were ultimately dropped. And he was no longer, like, a accessory to murder because he wasn't holding out. But for Jabez's family, they were thinking, how could Jabez have witnessed this and not told us? Like. Like, they were. They were honestly devastated. They didn't know he had experienced that. Yeah. And they said that was obviously such a traumatic thing.

[Christine Schieffer]

I. I wonder if he just thought, like, keep my mouth shut and hopefully no one gets hurt.

[Em Schultz]

That's what they assume. Because he was just one of those kids that wanted out of trouble, wanted nothing to do with it. And so basically, he was too protective. You know, very protective. And, you know, he has his grandma, and he, of course, he wants to protect her. He wants to buy her a house someday. You know, he's a kid, and so he's probably terrified. His Aunt Latoya considered that he was trying to protect his family. So. In late November, a Sarasota news source reported that investigators believed that a local church leader named Pastor Kelvin Lumpkin had information about Jabez's disappearance. Okay, so investigators follow this lead. They go in late September, they go to see Pastor Kelvin. Just. This is just weeks after Jabez vanished. But Kelvin's attorney wrote a letter stating that Kelvin refused to discuss the case, citing pastoral privilege. Which is like, you know, basically that you can't be forced to disclose private conversations with someone seeking spiritual guidance. So, like, a priest. You can't force a priest to, okay, tell the police about a confession. This is like. This is like, did you know that?

[Christine Schieffer]

I did know that. But now. Now I think there's some states that are making them be, like, court mandated.

[Em Schultz]

There are more nuances to it now. Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Or mandated reporters or whatever it's called. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

I think you're right. I think if it's like, if they're in danger in. In har. In present harm, or.

[Christine Schieffer]

But it's still shocking to me.

[Em Schultz]

It is. Isn't it crazy?

[Christine Schieffer]

It's. Especially as someone who is agnostic, atheist, or whatever. It's like just to think that you.

[Em Schultz]

Can just walk into a confessional and say, like, I did this, that, and the other, and you can't do anything about it.

[Christine Schieffer]

But I'm like, not to be offensive to anyone who has different views than me. But it is. It is similar of like, well, I don't. I get to get away with it because I believe in Santa Claus. It's like, yeah, because it's like, it.

[Em Schultz]

Just doesn't track unless, like, Santa Claus.

[Christine Schieffer]

Would want you to be honest, babe.

[Em Schultz]

Like, yeah, if you live in the structure of it, it makes sense. But like, from an outside perspective, it's like, wait, what? You can just go in there and go.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, it's just like, very jarring. That. That is like a. A legal loop.

[Em Schultz]

I mean, think about the. They probably have to hear too. Like, I mean, I don't know. When I was 10, I killed a puppy. I don't know. I'm like, I'm trying to think of, like, horrible things that you wouldn't need to report to the police but that are like, still traumatic to have to hear.

[Christine Schieffer]

I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

[Em Schultz]

That must be really weird to be in that position. But anyway, so pastoral privilege, they cite pastoral privilege, they say, okay, well, you know, you can't force him to reveal what. What he knows. Like you were just saying some professional positions are designated mandatory reporters. And so people such as teachers, doctors, you know, therapists are legally obligated to report alleged abuse and exploitation to law enforcement or child welfare services. But just like you said, in some states they get an exception because they're beyond me pastors. Yeah, it's wild. So, like, that's.

[Christine Schieffer]

Shouldn't also taxing the church too, like, just.

[Em Schultz]

Right.

[Christine Schieffer]

It's just. It's just a. A lawless land over there.

[Em Schultz]

It's a lawless land, but it's like. Well, it's a very lawful land in their own.

[Christine Schieffer]

The irony. Yeah, yeah. Where their laws count, I guess.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah, yeah. I'm speaking strictly here about Catholic Catholicism, and from my own experience, I'm not, I'm not harsh in anyone else's vibe here, but. So in 2022, the associated press reported that 33 u. S. States had laws exempting clergy from mandatory reporting. Laws. 33 even in cases, get this. Of exploitation and sexual abuse of children. So you can literally go in there to a priest, say, I am sexually abusing a child, and they don't have to tell.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, I mean, that's. It's just another reason why pedophile is rampant in those types of spaces. Just one of the many reasons.

[Em Schultz]

It's just a hush hush type of situation, you know, that's just. Yeah, it's like, of course, it's. Maybe it wasn't built for that, but like, of course it's gonna slip through the cracks if those safety measures are not in place. So Florida law defines clergy members as a priest, rabbi, practitioner of Christian science, or minister of any religious organization or denomination, usually Referred to as a church or an individual reasonably believed to. To so be by the person consulting him or her.

[Christine Schieffer]

So it also, by the way, offers.

[Em Schultz]

A lot of room for. For wiggle room. I don't know the right word for.

[Christine Schieffer]

Round of applause to lawyers. Because, like, I. That alone, I know.

[Em Schultz]

Like, I feel like that gave me 18 loopholes. Like, I feel like I could be. Like, I'm a religious. I'm a religious leader because someone thought I was, you know.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Like, I. It's just baffling. So anyway, Kelvin and his lawyers cite this law to protect his silence. And Kelvin claimed right to refuse to speak on the case, while Reggie was arrested and charged with accessory to murder for claiming the same. Right. So it's just kind of like an icky kind of parallel. Like, one refuses to talk, so he goes to jail for being an accessory to murder. One refuses to talk. And it's because he's a holy counselor.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know, Isn't that fun?

[Em Schultz]

And he gets to go home tonight. Great. It's just waffling. It's what? It's.

[Christine Schieffer]

No, it is waffling.

[Em Schultz]

Certainly waffling. I'm waffling. Okay. So in November, I love this, like, Sarasota News. They're getting their hands on some. Like, the investigators are like, oh, okay, the news said it. Let's go talk to this guy. I mean, it's wild. So in November, a Sarasota news source publishes the letter written by Kelvin's attorney or legal representation. Oh, wow. Because it was public record, so the Sarasota News Source published it. And, you know, it already troubled investigators. That and Jabez's family, of course, that one community leader might be withholding information. But to make matters worse, Kelvin. Kelvin's attorney was this woman named Shelley Freeland Eddie. And she was the sitting mayor of Sarasota.

[Christine Schieffer]

What corruption is afoot sometimes, right?

[Em Schultz]

Oh, oh, pillars of the community. That is what These two are.

[Christine Schieffer]

Two Ps, Mayor. That feels like. Like a. Like a comic book where I literally.

[Em Schultz]

Feels like a Superman thing, where it's like, well, that's a little too on the nose, you know?

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

But like, the fact that it was like this. This hush hush thing, and then it. It was made public record, and they're like, wait, your lawyer's the mayor? And she wrote a letter on your behalf to say he doesn't have to talk about the murder of Jabez. Like, that's. You should hear his mom talk about it. It's horrible. She's like, these people have kids and they chose their jobs and their job security over and their power and their power over that love of being a parent and. And helping me find my son.

[Christine Schieffer]

And this is still in New Town, right? This is, like, in a town full of people who are, like, claiming to be, like, a wonderful community of people.

[Em Schultz]

So she's. Yeah. She's a mayor of Sarasota and Newtown. Yeah. Is a community in. In Sarasota. But, yeah. So it's like, okay, so you're. You're gonna protect yourself and not. She just want to. Felt like, completely betrayed, basically. Like, as you can imagine, and outraged. She said in an interview that the betrayal felt compounded because she considered Kelvin and Shelley. This probably kind of answer your question. Not only leaders of Sarasota, but of the black community, because they're both black. And she felt like, even if you're not necessarily living with us in Newtown, like, I expected more from you to represent me and my family when you know how hard it is. And, like, yeah, it just makes it extra icky. Like, she felt so disappointed and betrayed by them. And. Yeah, this story, for some reason, gives me chills. Like, every five minutes, it's like, just hard. So Jabez's family continued to appear in the media to keep the case alive. They publicly celebrated Jabez's 15th birthday. And Lucille, his grandma, told interviewers on camera that of course he's not a runaway, and if he was capable of calling me or coming home, he'd have been here.

[Christine Schieffer]

Her.

[Em Schultz]

She's like, there's no way in hell he's a runaway. In December, the reward for information which led to Jabez was raised to $50,000. And still nobody came forward.

[Christine Schieffer]

What the hell is going on?

[Em Schultz]

Isn't that crazy?

[Christine Schieffer]

That's bananas. At that point, I would start doubting that anybody knew anything. I'd be like, maybe no one knows anything.

[Em Schultz]

Like, okay, well, I'm so happy you just said that. Seriously. Because my next sentence is Private investigator Joseph, wait. Invest the private investigator Joseph decided to enlist a psychic for help because he had no idea what the. To do.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah, I would. I would be at a loss at that point. Be like, nobody wants 50 grand. Like it. Nobody. It's not worth 50 grand. Whatever information you. Yeah, I would start losing my marbles.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, I guess I'll just hire a psychic. And he tried that, and that didn't seem to work. And they're just kind of hitting kind of the last dead ends that they can see. And let's fast forward the afternoon of February 19, 2019. And so this is a year and a half since Jabez disappeared. Somebody discovered skeletal human remains while they were repairing a cow pasture fence in rural Manatee County, Florida.

[Christine Schieffer]

Okay, so. So question the. Okay, so his body was found like on this cow pasture, or a body was found on this cow pasture. But this is. I don't know if this is even relevant anymore. I'm assuming this is post hurricane. So was the body found where it originally was, or is this like now swept away somewhere else?

[Em Schultz]

Or does it matter to find out? Okay, actually, for once, for once I have an answer. No, this is certainly. This is a year and a half after he disappeared. So this would have. And the hurricane happened within days of him disappearing. So this would have been a lot later. So Joe said that waiting for confirmation that the remains belonged to Jabez was this bittersweet situation. He said, is it that you want it to be him so you can have closure, or is it, this can't be him. We want to bring him home the way he left.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, that's chilling.

[Em Schultz]

I know. In the end, they use dental records and were able to confirm that it was indeed Jabez. And chillingly again, there was a rope found with his remains, as if he had been bound and held captive before being murdered and abandoned.

[Christine Schieffer]

Do we think that's true or is that leading? And it was like, just like leftover debris from a hurricane from being in a co pasture.

[Em Schultz]

No, he had been detained in some way by this rope.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh, my God.

[Em Schultz]

And the PI believes that Jabez was held somewhere for days before his death. And that was, of course, the four days before the police finally agreed to issue an alert or searching themselves. So months after the discovery, Jabez's family received his remains. It amounted to bones, according to Joe. Bones in a container the size of a shoebox is what his stepdad said.

[Christine Schieffer]

Oh.

[Em Schultz]

Tawana wanted to make the public aware of what her son had suffered and what she was enduring as a mother. And so she was really, really moved to action by the kind of parallel legacy of Mamie Till Mobley, who was the mother of 14 year old Emmett Till, who was kidnapped in lynch in 1955 after being falsely accused of whistling at a white woman named Carolyn Bryant in Mississippi. And I had. I had known this, but it's still disturbing and tragic every time, of course, we talk about it, but Mamie, to make a point, to make a statement, had held an open casket funeral for Emmett Till, made people look. Yep. And allowed photos to be Published, which is why I think so many of us remember this story from early on, because it's so shocking when you first learn it. And it doesn't stop being shocking.

[Christine Schieffer]

You know, she wanted people to know, like, what. What truly happened to him.

[Em Schultz]

Exactly. And so she allowed the. Not only an open casket funeral for people to look at her son and what happened to him, but also to take photos and publish them so that other people could see. And so she wanted to make the world look at what these people, what the violence of racism, what these people had done to her son. And everyone involved in Emmett's death was acquitted in court. So, you know, if you're wondering what the spoiler spoiler alert is there. But. So Tawana felt suddenly this, like, real kinship, you know, understandably. And so she actually posted photos of Jabez's remains in that box, those bones.

[Christine Schieffer]

Wow.

[Em Schultz]

Alongside a photo of Emmett Till. And she invoked the history of violence against black children like Emmett, her own son, and of course, the lack of justice and the lack of follow up and follow through. And she said no parent should have to endure her experience. She wanted to give her son's life a legacy. So she created the Jabez Span foundation, which works to provide emotional, financial and logistical support to families of missing persons and homicide victims, to organize searches, to advocate for unsolved cases in the media, and to seek justice and closure in missing and murder cases, which is just, like, on top of all of this and the trauma and like, people would understand if you just laid down for the rest of your life.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yep.

[Em Schultz]

And here you are, like, making an entire organization to help other families. It's just. It never fails to blow my mind. Tawana publish a book titled Weirdo Dealing with PTSD after Losing a Child to Murder.

[Christine Schieffer]

Damn.

[Em Schultz]

Wow. It was titled that because she felt the trauma she endured was very alienating and sort of set her apart from other people. And she also focused her advocacy efforts on education and economic literacy. She sought to intervene in poverty and other social issues and identified as she. She identified these social issues, in particular poverty, that kind of thing, as major contributors to cycles of incarceration. So she's going, you know, straight to the source, trying to help her community, and she really wanted to empower other people in Newtown to do so as well. Well, and so the oral histories of generations of Newtown residents have been preserved in interviews, and they're actually available on newtownalive.org and I think that's super cool. The community is doing all of these initiatives and kind of banding Together again. For example, successful community initiatives have been launched to bring museums, art centers, a cultural center, tourism and more education opportunities to Newtown and its residents. And, and so, you know, his community flourishes after, after something like that, despite his passing. Yeah. So, you know, it's like there's the. I guess, I guess enough after the storm, right? I don't know the rainbow. I don't know what it, what it would be. But I mean, it's also the work of his mom doing all, you know, helping to promote. No, his mom is empathy and community. So Joe said, I just missed the greatness that I had seen in this young man. And he misses his son having a brother, which I also found pretty poignant and heartbreaking. Unfortunately, the investigation has not been solved, but it is still ongoing. Joseph Randall said, what's gonna have to happen in this case is someone getting a conscience. And it sounds like somebody did because they already confessed to a, to a pastor. Now we need the pastor to grow. Fucking conscience. Or the mayor. Right? Like, that's a big ask, though. So until someone comes forward and they, which sucks too, because it's like, do they, do they really feel like they repented by telling that one pastor, like, do you think that they sincerely, like, feel like they're a better person?

[Christine Schieffer]

Does he just walk around now, just.

[Em Schultz]

Feel like, oh, I'm free of this burden, I can go to heaven. Like, no, that's not how that works.

[Christine Schieffer]

That can't be how it works.

[Em Schultz]

It can't be how it works.

[Christine Schieffer]

That's why I'm atheist, agnostic.

[Em Schultz]

I'm like, exactly.

[Christine Schieffer]

Like, if that's how it works, I don't want to go to heaven, actually.

[Em Schultz]

Exactly. I'll stay with you in hell.

[Christine Schieffer]

Thank you.

[Em Schultz]

See you in hell.

[Christine Schieffer]

Thank you.

[Em Schultz]

You're so welcome. I'll at least visit.

[Christine Schieffer]

You can write.

[Em Schultz]

Okay, maybe I'll write. So maybe I'll sms. So essentially we're waiting for anybody to. Because like you said, somebody knows something and, and particularly in such a tight knit community, somebody fucking knows something. So I just find this to be one of those where hopefully with time, loose lips sink ships. You know, I mean, that's what you have to hope for. Which sucks because it's the waiting game, but you can usually count on people to slip at some point. So I don't know, I'm hoping, I'm hoping they get some closure until someone comes forward. The people seeking justice for Jabez believe that the community is still in danger, even though it's flourishing culturally. Investigators will not confirm Any alleged official link between his death and the death of Travis Combs. The murder of Travis Combs. But those close to Jabez remain convinced that they're connected in some way because Travis had been killed right outside Jabez's home. And then with the. With the story, Reggie's story about him having witnessed it, and it just felt too uncanny to not be connected somehow. And then him going to the vigil and disappearing that night, you know, there's.

[Christine Schieffer]

Not even like a doubt. Like, it's.

[Em Schultz]

No. I find that to be a very obvious connection.

[Christine Schieffer]

Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Just based on the family alone being so sure of it. In a 2017 interview regarding her nephew, Travis Combs, Teresa spoke fondly of her nephew and said that although she didn't want violent retaliation, she wanted Travis's killer to know what they took away, not only from his family, but the community. And Tawana basically echoes the same. She said in an interview that the people who killed Jabez crossed the wrong family and they're gonna find that out. And I. I'm hoping. And I. I don't doubt it, Tawana. I really don't. She's got it on her.

[Christine Schieffer]

I think she's gonna.

[Em Schultz]

Blow this case wide open. What did she say about her son? That he exploded in everything he did. I love that.

[Christine Schieffer]

Including the truth. Yeah.

[Em Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schieffer]

Well, happy birthday to me. That was a good.

[Em Schultz]

Yay.

[Christine Schieffer]

Good. Bad story per usual. Christine, thanks. Is there. What else is next? I think it's just our birthday week. Is there anything else we need to promote? You want to give your little beach to Sandy shout out?

[Em Schultz]

Oh, sure. Yeah. If anybody is interested, my other podcast with my brother, beach to Sandy, Water to It, is doing a 17 city tour. I don't know what I'm thinking. 17 city tour. I think I went to a fugue state when I agreed to that, but it is gonna be a really fun time. And we read one star reviews of your town, basically. So, you know what, Omaha, you better watch out.

[Christine Schieffer]

Is there a town that is. I don't know if you can. If this, like, ruins the vibe of the show. So maybe you don't.

[Em Schultz]

No, no, tell me.

[Christine Schieffer]

But is there a city that you think will have a lot of material to work with?

[Em Schultz]

I'm thinking Plano is going to be pretty weird because, like, we don't know why. We're just like Plano. So you're just. You're gonna be kind of like a dark horse, I think. But honestly, every town has. I would be their own, like, brand of cuckoo.

[Christine Schieffer]

I would be scared to have to cover Florida. Like, there's just too much.

[Em Schultz]

Well, that's our first show, so we're doing Tampa and I forget the other one.

[Christine Schieffer]

Sorry, Orlando.

[Em Schultz]

It's maybe Orlando. I don't remember. We're. We're. My brother's clearly planning the travel this time around. But. But yeah. So if you want to check that out, it would be really fun to see all hgsandy.com I don't know. We're. It's on there somewhere.

[Christine Schieffer]

But.

[Em Schultz]

But yeah, other than that, I think we don't have much else to promo except you can come to yappy hour. Patreon.com ATWD or is it. And that's what I don't know. Go to our Patreon.

[Christine Schieffer]

Give it a Google.

[Em Schultz]

Give it a whirl. Give it a Google.

[Christine Schieffer]

Thank you, everyone, for enduring my dog I when he gets dog park access again, hopefully things will be better. When he has backyard access, things will be better. When Allison gets back, he will be better. But unfortunately, the triple threat hit us all today. So happy birthday to me. This is what it's like to be a dog parent, I guess. So thank God for every everyone see. See you over at Yappy Hour, everyone see you there. And that's why we drink.