E438 The Mighty S.S. Leona and an Unexpected Pasta Experience

Summary

Podcast Summary: "And That's Why We Drink"
Episode: E438 The Mighty S.S. Leona and an Unexpected Pasta Experience
Release Date: June 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of "And That's Why We Drink," hosts Christine Schiefer and EM Schultz delve into a chilling blend of true crime and paranormal tales. The episode is aptly titled "The Mighty S.S. Leona and an Unexpected Pasta Experience," promising listeners a mix of maritime mystery and unexpected real-life encounters.

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The Legend of Colossal Claude

[21:25] EM Schultz introduces the saga of Colossal Claude, a cryptid purported to inhabit Oregon's Columbia River. Described as a massive creature with the head of a horse and a snake-like body measuring approximately 40 feet in length, Claude has captured the imagination of cryptid enthusiasts and locals alike.

• Description & Sightings:

  • [24:06] Christine Schiefer reflects, "I wish I could come up with a funny name, but 'Colossal Claude' has a nice ring to it."
  • [27:08] The hosts discuss various sightings, including one by Captain Jensen of the tender boat "The Rose", who reported seeing Claude with an eight-foot-long neck and a mean-looking tail.
  • [34:15] EM Schultz elaborates, "Colossal Claude was seen again three years later by Captain Graham of the boat "The Viv", describing it as a long, hairy, tan-colored creature with a horse-like head."

• Physical Attributes & Behavior:

  • Claude's neck extends 15 feet above the water, making it nearly twice the length of a standard giraffe.
  • Witnesses report Claude displaying territorial behavior, such as stealing fish from fishing lines, as recounted by Captain Anderson of the fishing boat "The Argo".

• Theories & Explanations:

  • [46:16] Christine Schiefer speculates, "It sounds like someone overheard another group talking about Colossal Claude and just wanted to try and fit the pieces together."
  • The hosts discuss scientific explanations, including the possibility of Claude being a large fish like an oarfish or a whale, though many in the cryptid community lean towards mythical explanations, such as a surviving plesiosaur.

• Cultural Impact:

  • [52:02] EM Schultz mentions, "Although Colossal Claude hasn't been seen in quite a long time, his memory lives on among cryptid lovers."
  • The episode highlights the community's fascination with Claude, even mentioning a craft beer named "Rogue Colossal Claude IPA", celebrating the cryptid's enduring legacy.

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An Unexpected Pasta Experience

[18:46] The episode takes a humorous detour as EM Schultz shares a personal anecdote about being recognized while eating an abundance of pasta. This encounter leads to an unexpected interaction with a fan seeking a story suggestion, which inadvertently ties back into the cryptid narrative.

• Embarrassing Encounters:

  • [19:18] EM recounts, "I was eating pasta so much, and someone recognized me and asked if I had a podcast, leading to the Colossal Claude story."

• Community Interactions:

  • The hosts humorously discuss how such public recognitions can lead to unintended story inspirations, blending personal experiences with the show's paranormal themes.

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Delphi Murders: Part Two Recap

Transitioning from cryptid lore, Christine Schiefer provides a comprehensive recap of the ongoing investigation into the Delphi murders, emphasizing the complexities and community impact of this tragic case.

• Case Background:

  • [63:22] The episode recounts the murders of teenage girls Abby and Libby on February 13, 2017, at the Monon High Bridge.

• Investigation Developments:

  • [72:25] A significant turn occurred in December 2021 when the Indiana State Police sought information on two social media accounts under the username Anthony_Shots_SHOTS, linked to child exploitation.
  • [85:14] The investigation eventually led to the arrest of Richard Allen, a 50-year-old man with no prior significant criminal history, raising questions about his connection to the murders.

• Trial and Conviction:

  • [94:32] Richard Allen's trial was marked by dramatic testimonies, including Victim Impact Statements from the families and contentious interactions with the judge.
  • [105:26] Despite a defense attempting to introduce theories involving Odinism and cult rituals, the prosecution maintained a focus on the physical and ballistic evidence linking Allen to the crimes.
  • [116:32] The jury convicted Richard Allen on four counts of murder, sentencing him to 130 years in prison, although he remains unconnected to the initial suspect, Keegan Klein (Anthony_Shots).

• Community and Media Impact:

  • The episode explores how online sleuthing and media frenzy have both aided and complicated the investigation, often causing distress to the families involved.
  • [121:54] Christine Schiefer reflects on the emotional toll, stating, "The girls' families have been very distressed by the online commentary and sleuthing, which has muddied the waters of the investigation."

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Conclusion & Reflections

Throughout the episode, Christine and EM navigate the intertwining of personal anecdotes, community stories, and investigative journalism. They emphasize the importance of respecting victims' families while exploring the depths of true crime and paranormal phenomena.

• Emotional Insights:

  • [117:11] EM Schultz expresses empathy, "Not only the last words but knowing they were scared... it's devastating."

• Community Resilience:

  • The discussion concludes with a tribute to the victims, Abby and Libby, highlighting community efforts to memorialize them through the Abby and Libby Memorial Park, fostering a space for remembrance and healing.

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Notable Quotes

• EM Schultz [21:25]: "Colossal Claude is like a lone plesiosaur that may be stuck around here because he found the river salmon population."

• Christine Schiefer [27:09]: "How long is a school bus? Okay, 40ft. Hell, yeah, brother."

• EM Schultz [34:32]: "It looks like a snake, an underwater snake dinosaur."

• Christine Schiefer [105:49]: "Each time his wife told him he did not kill Abby and Libby, something seemed wrong and he seemed unwell."

• EM Schultz [116:47]: "It's a reminder to all of us that from the most obvious person to the least obvious person, it could be anyone."

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Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully blends the eerie allure of cryptid legends with the harrowing realities of unsolved crimes, offering listeners both thrills and deep emotional narratives. Christine and EM invite their audience to ponder the unknown while honoring the memories of those lost, all while navigating their own humorous and relatable experiences.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the podcast's guidelines.

Transcript

[EM Schultz]

We talk about it every time, folks. We love Eva. We love that we were able to find her so quickly. We were desperately. We were drowning when we needed somebody to come in, help us out. At the time it was just emails and social media and it very quickly turned into like, we need you to go ghost hunting in the basement. Do you mind, man? No one like Eva. And we wouldn't have found her if it weren't for ZipRecruiter. Typically you don't associate speed with quality, but in her case, we were able to find her in like 30 seconds. It's crazy. ZipRecruiter was able to do that for us. Like I said, usually speed and quality don't mix. But there is an exception to that unwritten rule. If you're hiring, you can find candidates fast who are also extremely qualified for your job. Just use ZipRecruiter and right now you can use ZipRecruiter for [e-mail] Drink. It is so easy to use. It is so helpful. I mean, really, we have. I mean, we have ZipRecruiter to thank for everything that's happened so far. Anything Eva has touched, that's ZipRecruiter's responsibility, or was their responsibility for sure. It's also something that I'm incredibly grateful for. So thank you. ZipRecruiter experience hiring speed and quality with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. We were one of those four out of five. And if you go to ZipRecruiter.com drink right now, you can try it for free again. That's ziprecruiter.com drink ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire this is the way it feels to move through summer in Lululemon. Iconic aligned softness without the front seam.

[Christine Schiefer]

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[EM Schultz]

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[Christine Schiefer]

Align no line pant in select stores and at lululemon.com.

[EM Schultz]

Word word bird.

[Christine Schiefer]

I remember when you say word bird.

[EM Schultz]

I texted it to someone recently and I went, that's old.

[Christine Schiefer]

I kind of missed that. Word bird really got me back in the day.

[EM Schultz]

Thank you. Yeah, not many people agreed with you, which is why I said, I don't.

[Christine Schiefer]

Think though I don't know that that's true. I think we just didn't say anything. And I regret not saying anything because I don't think I ever told you, like, really a number on me in the best way. And I don't think I ever told you till now.

[EM Schultz]

I never felt empowered or acknowledged.

[Christine Schiefer]

I should have. I should have told you. Word bird really is a killer sentence. Like, a killer phrase. It's good.

[EM Schultz]

Word bird.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't know why that surprised me, but it did. Wow. I walked right in that one. Hello, everyone. Welcome to and that's why We Drink, the podcast where we. We tell scary stories.

[EM Schultz]

I am EM Schultz. I truly forgot my name for a second. I was like, what's coming next? Out of my mouth.

[Christine Schiefer]

I did write it in the script for you, just in case I didn't read it, obviously.

[EM Schultz]

How's. How's everyone doing? Christine, you're the only one who can really answer, so how's everyone doing? Bad.

[Christine Schiefer]

Real bad. I mean, fine. I mean, fine, good fine, fine, but not good, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Mm. I get it.

[Christine Schiefer]

We all get it. It's like I'm doing the best I can. It's like my body thinks it's. It's fighting against itself. It's raging against the machine. The wrong machine. It's raging against its own machine. And I'm like, please stop. You don't need to kill your. Kill your own healthy, healthy cells. You can stop doing that. And it's not really listening. Healthy is in quotes, healthy, quote, unquote. Exactly. Like, you need to quit. Quit doing that. Because. Because here's the thing. I'm really kind of over it. I got a lot to do. I've got a rage against the actual machine. Right? We all got to do that.

[EM Schultz]

Ain't that the truth?

[Christine Schiefer]

We also got to do this podcast and talk about horrible things, and if I just have, like, ulcers in my throat, I don't have time for that. You know what I'm saying?

[EM Schultz]

In your throat, Christine?

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, yeah, because it's like your whole digestive tract, and so it just like. Yeah, it's gross.

[EM Schultz]

I forget. Your throat is your digestive tract.

[Christine Schiefer]

I know. And canker sores in your mouth. And then your eyes get like, these horrible. It's.

[EM Schultz]

Those are your digestive tract, Christine.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, that's just inflammation.

[EM Schultz]

That's just everything else.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's just, like, autoimmune. But, yeah, so it's. It's annoying. But you know what? It's okay. We're thriving. I'm going on tour this week. That's why I drink. I already prepared that reason I'm going on tour again. Like, as if we didn't just do that. Very proud of you.

[EM Schultz]

Well, we haven't been to Florida in a million years, so at least you get to go to a new spot.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. So we're going to Orlando. Tampa. Very excited. And reading one star reviews of these places is like, so unhinged. I have to sometimes, like, remember to bring myself back to a semi state of reality because, like, reading reviews of the Tampa Zoo is like, what world have I stumbled into? You know?

[EM Schultz]

Is. Is Andrew your. Your tour guy?

[Christine Schiefer]

Mm.

[EM Schultz]

I'm kind of pissed at him that like, he wouldn't give you Florida last, like, as the big hoorah.

[Christine Schiefer]

It feels like it needs to. To be the big finale. You're right.

[EM Schultz]

I feel like we're starting at a high because, like, you're gonna do like literal Florida.

[Christine Schiefer]

Florida, man.

[EM Schultz]

And then you're gonna go to like, I don't know, Omaha. Omaha. Yeah. It's like, well, I guess Omaha, like, you could complain about that. There's nothing to do, but in Florida, a lot's going on.

[Christine Schiefer]

I didn't say that Omaha ended. And by the way, compared to Florida.

[EM Schultz]

I'm sorry, there is.

[Christine Schiefer]

There's something to do. And it's called beach to Sandy Live.

[EM Schultz]

It's called eat an Omaha steak and see Christine, come see.

[Christine Schiefer]

I want to say I am very. I will say we did request specially Omaha and Plano. So those are not even like, oh, random. My brother was like, I want to go to those places. And I was like, sure. So those are not Andrew credit and doesn't get credit for that. He. But he should. You're right. Florida feels like a big. A high bar to start with, but maybe that's what we need to, like.

[EM Schultz]

Get out of this.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

So why did he suggest that he, like, have a lot of things he wants to like. He's had notes set aside for them for a long time.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just. Nope. He's just that kind of like you. He's like, I just want to go.

[EM Schultz]

To Omaha and I so badly want to go to.

[Christine Schiefer]

I know.

[EM Schultz]

Last time.

[Christine Schiefer]

But that's what I'm saying. Like. No, we've never been.

[EM Schultz]

No. Remember I was going to go after one of our shows and.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, after our shows. That's right. Yeah. We had like that weird. I think we had to drive.

[EM Schultz]

Something happened.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Well, anyway, we are. There's still a chance. Okay, people, Omaha is going to be the finale of the century.

[EM Schultz]

It's going to be wham, bam, thank you, ma' am.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's right. I'm going to work real hard on those Reviews to make sure they reach the same bar as Florida. So, you know, it's going to be a. Be a wild ride. But other than that, you know, I'm just chilling. How are you doing?

[EM Schultz]

Fine. I wish I had something to update you on. I. Nothing's really going on over here. I did a big cleaning yesterday, which. It's so annoying when you get really productive about something because you were getting distracted from doing the thing you needed to be productive about.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Because part of me feels so accomplished and part of me is like, I didn't do that thing I needed to do.

[Christine Schiefer]

And it was reroutes completely and doesn't like, puts up a guardrail and they're like, you. I can't go back to that other, other thing.

[EM Schultz]

Like, I. I have been trying to downsize myself because now that we're back from tour, I'm seeing just how many T shirts I bought and. Holy shit, Christine. Like, it's like actually, I've never actually been this. I self embarrassed about.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, don't be embarrassed. It's like you want to celebrate each town and we'll go to all these small businesses. Like, you want to support small businesses. You want to like, remember the trip. I mean, it's. It's not. Don't be embarrassed. But yeah. I also am lucky that I have just this giant space up here where no one really enters that I can just shove all the stuff that I buy on tour.

[EM Schultz]

Which one day I will.

[Christine Schiefer]

Isn't great.

[EM Schultz]

One day I will. I mean, honestly, at this point, I feel like when we get all the construction done, I'm going to have. We're just building a closet for me is what it feels like.

[Christine Schiefer]

I was about to say you're building a two story walk in closet. That's all.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, like, well. And Allison, she said it on her. Someone said it. Someone was like, oh, do you collect anything? One of our friends and Allison. Allison. Without even missing a beat and not even trying to joke, she was like, oh, well, you have a like really great T shirt collection.

[Christine Schiefer]

And I went, you do though.

[EM Schultz]

And I went, I don't collect shirts. And she went, girl, yeah, you do. Like, what are you talking.

[Christine Schiefer]

You totally do. Because you have even said, you. You literally have said the words that you collect shirts from. Like Ivy League universe. Like, you literally.

[EM Schultz]

Well, that's supposed to be like eight shirts. I thought that was an easy one.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right? We all knew that was supposed to be eight shirts. Don't, don't worry. We were on the same Page. It's just like. Then your brain did the guard rail thing and you were like, oh, okay, I'll expand my collection. Which is great. I did. I did the same. So I feel the pain. But. But yeah, I would. I would argue, you know, but also that's a good thing because it means you're not just hoarding. You're like curating.

[EM Schultz]

See, but now. But see, now I've done the thing where I'm girl mapping myself into not valentizing.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm not the person to talk to because I will keep encouraging this behavior Anyway, our.

[EM Schultz]

We have had one room. One room. There's one room in this house.

[Christine Schiefer]

We have one room.

[EM Schultz]

We have one room. Not had. What will eventually. I think I've mentioned this before for sure that we're creating a speakeasy, like a secret passageway room. And that room, for now, has been like the biggest, like, clusterfuck of chaos. Like, there's. There was no floor. It was just. It wasn't even just like clothes on the floor. It was like glasses on the floor and like plates on the floor.

[Christine Schiefer]

And just like everything gets relegated.

[EM Schultz]

Everything was getting shoved in there. And like everything during tour. All the time tour suitcases were going in there and it was just towels. Like, it was everything because Hank chews on everything when you're not looking.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, right.

[EM Schultz]

So it just became the room where you throw everything. And it was disgusting. That is officially actually clean for the first time.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's big.

[EM Schultz]

But that's because I was avoiding the downsizing my shirts. So anyway, that's why I drink. I just. I'm feeling a little.

[Christine Schiefer]

You need a clear space before you continue on to a more extensive cleaning project. Okay.

[EM Schultz]

Thank you. Yes, I. I agree. At some point, I. I'll get it together. I just don't know when. And also, like, I just think about all the other stuff that we still have in boxes the garage needs. I was thinking, oh, I'm gonna clean the garage. It's literally like 100 degrees here in an UN air conditioned garage. And I was like, I'm not.

[Christine Schiefer]

There's only so much you can do.

[EM Schultz]

I don't. I respect myself is actually the thing. So anyway, that's why I drink. What do you drink? Anything fun.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, it's a little too fun. And I feel a little guilty for sharing this because I did just talk about how my body's falling apart, but I kind of just don't give a anymore. So I'm drinking this hard iced tea.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, I love Arizona.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's just really good. It's like low alcohol level. I just sip on it in the afternoon if I'm recording with you, because it's more fun if to sip on something, you know.

[EM Schultz]

Well, funny you mentioned that because I. It's in the fridge now and if I get up. But next time we record, I just at the store bought blueberry juice. And it looks. It's literally in a wine bottle and, like, sealed and everything. And I was like, question, Erwan girl.

[Christine Schiefer]

Sorry, we just recorded that other one. I had to say it. I remember for once what we talked about last week.

[EM Schultz]

Thank you. I got it in the. On the same trip. I was like, well, look at this. And it looks like it's a blue wine bottle. It looks.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's like where I would. That is like the kind of thing that I can understand, like, the excitement about. Everyone's like, oh, my gosh, like, where on earth would you find this otherwise? You know, like blueberry juice in a beautiful bottle. Like.

[EM Schultz]

Like, I'm going to open it on camera next time we're recording because it's literally like the heat. The heat. Sealed. Kind of like it's. It looks like a bottle of wine.

[Christine Schiefer]

What if. What if when I inevitably have to pee in the intermission. Oh, yeah, you go get it.

[EM Schultz]

I'll take it. I'll take a. We'll take a sip before your. Your story.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's right. Because I'm doing a part two and you're going to need it.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, perfect. Great. Okay. Well, my story is short today. This was recommended to me by someone who recognized me on the street.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, in Erewhon. Can you imagine?

[EM Schultz]

No. That would be so humiliating.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't think anybody who shops at Erwan regularly would, like, know who the hell we are.

[EM Schultz]

No, I don't think so either. I. That's why I like going there. Just to get away from the fame of it all. To get ready for riff raff the hullabaloo. Oh, my God. No, this person.

[Christine Schiefer]

Meanwhile, there's a Publix now near me, and I'm like, you're so public's like 20 minutes from me. And Leona and I went for the first time and they. And because it's brand new too, everything's like, very. And it's in Kentucky, so it's like less populated than the Cincinnati area. And so you kind of drive down there, but, like, they had these little shopping carts with, like, the special little cars, and Leona was like, beeping her way through. I mean, there's a reason everyone loves Publix changing you.

[EM Schultz]

Have you had one of their subs?

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I did back when. When I would. When I would visit somebody in Florida that I no longer really visit.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, cool.

[Christine Schiefer]

Why did I say it like that? I'm sorry. I'm going to have one in Florida this week, let's put it that way.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, great.

[Christine Schiefer]

They're good. They're fudgeing good. And they make a vegan one that my brother loves, too.

[EM Schultz]

So they must be doing something right now because Virginia just got one of their. Like, Fredericksburg got a Publix and Bucky's.

[Christine Schiefer]

Remember when you told me to check Leona's shirt for the. Because we. A Kentucky Bucky's now.

[EM Schultz]

That's fine.

[Christine Schiefer]

Did I send you a picture? I meant to send you a picture. The back of her shirt. She has, like, that tour shirt of Bucky's. And the last one is the Virginia one.

[EM Schultz]

It was on the shirt.

[Christine Schiefer]

2025, it said. And Kentucky was a few up there. And I was surprised because, like, that feels brand new. But they've been doing a bunch. And they're opening one in Dayton, Ohio, near me. I don't know if they don't have.

[EM Schultz]

A shirt in your area that says Kentucky's Bucky's, they're missing out.

[Christine Schiefer]

I own them. Don't worry. Don't you worry.

[EM Schultz]

Last thing about a pub sub. First of all, that's one of the shirts I collected while we were traveling.

[Christine Schiefer]

Wait, really?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, because I went to Florida. I was in Florida and I went to a chachki shop and it says.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I thought it was, like, from the Publix.

[EM Schultz]

I was like, if they do, I'll own it eventually. Don't worry.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, there's just, like, a mustard stain on it.

[EM Schultz]

That would be funny. No, I. When I. I visited someone on our. On our travels, probably my grandma. Oh, yeah. Because what I was going to say.

[Christine Schiefer]

Is it was a person I don't talk to anymore.

[EM Schultz]

I would not be visiting that person. That would be crazy.

[Christine Schiefer]

What if it was your grandma that I don't talk to anymore?

[EM Schultz]

I would understand.

[Christine Schiefer]

Remember when we talked about your grandma and then she commented on Instagram and we got in trouble?

[EM Schultz]

She thought that we were laughing about her demise.

[Christine Schiefer]

We weren't even talking. We were talking about your other grandma.

[EM Schultz]

I was talking about my other grandma who.

[Christine Schiefer]

Who's dead.

[EM Schultz]

Who's dead. And I said. Christine laughed when I said something about my dead grandma grandma.

[Christine Schiefer]

And then m's real, alive grandma was like, how dare you. And we were like, it's. That's not you.

[EM Schultz]

You're alive. We weren't talking about you.

[Christine Schiefer]

We weren't.

[EM Schultz]

Anyway, no.

[Christine Schiefer]

And Megan was like, hi, M's grandma wrote in and is pretty bad. I was like, that's an M problem. I don't know what to tell you.

[EM Schultz]

No, I. I don't know if I was visiting. I must have not been near my grandma, because I don't. I don't know the situation. I was in Florida. I was near somewhere with a publix. So we were somewhere while we were traveling, and I found a publix, and I stayed an extra day, and I intentionally didn't let myself leave the hotel. And I had. I got an Uber, went to Publix, got myself a bunch of, like, pool snacks, and then I just sat by the pool and, like, had a pool day. Like, I was a little kid, and I went swimming, and then halfway through, I ate a pub sub. And then. And then I went swimming again. And then I fell asleep in the sun, and then I got an incredible sunburn.

[Christine Schiefer]

That is. I was gonna say, as long as you got an incredible sunburn or you went into the water too quickly and got a tummy ache, that is the way, you know, it was like an official kid type. It was full day.

[EM Schultz]

So nice. It was actually very lovely. Anyway, who wants to hear her story?

[Christine Schiefer]

I guess I do. So I. I used to think, like, oh, I'm not a fashionable person ever. But I feel like lately that I've had the tools necessary. I've become a more fashionable person. Like, when Em and Eva suddenly see me on tour, they're like, okay. And I'm like, what? And they're like, where did you get that? And I'm like, obviously, Daily Look. Where else would I have gotten it? They put a whole wardrobe for me together, and now I'm going on st. Like, oh, this. This whole thing. I did this myself.

[EM Schultz]

A plus.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thank you.

[EM Schultz]

You're welcome. This podcast is sponsored by Daily Look. It is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. And it's not an algorithm. These are real personal stylists.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'll be honest. Esperanza really gets me. And she and I have been, like, chatting about what in my next box I would need for my shows. And I. She just is like, oh, I get it. And sent me this box. And I kept everything, a single thing, because I Was like, I never would have picked this out at the store. But it actually looks awesome. So thank you. A shout out to Esperanza. You're really nailing it. Daily look has sizes for almost everybody, which is also great. They have from extra small to 3x0 to 24. So if you're interested, it is time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code drink for 50 off your first order.

[EM Schultz]

Once again, that's DailyLook.com for 50 off. And make sure you use our promo code Drink so they know that we sent you one last time. It's DailyLook.com and promo code Drink. Christine, I've been going through my closet recently. I'm kind of downsizing, kind of getting new pieces. And my problem is that I really, there's so many places I want to buy clothes, but I don't want to spend that much money while also, you know what I mean?

[Christine Schiefer]

It's like I don't. You know why? Because I don't have that problem. Because I use coins, okay? How many times do I have to tell you? It's actually affordable. They use ethical manufacturing. It's, it's, it's a top artisans and then they cut out the middleman. So there's, they give you this luxury without that markup. And I'm telling you, I went on this lake trip and it was like I was going on a lake trip as like a fashionable. Like normally I would have just packed like, like oversized, whatever. I bought these linen, okay? They are 100% European linen, wide leg pants. And I thought like, I don't know, somehow these have become like these viral things on their website and people say no matter what, what you like look like body shape, these are really awesome and flattering and comfy. I bought them, I immediately bought them in two more colors. They are the best for summer. They're linen. They look fancy. They don't get like, you know that wrinkly like you can wear linen like that. Very flowy.

[EM Schultz]

Everything from, from Quince is priced 50 to 80 less than what you would find at similar brands. So.

[Christine Schiefer]

And they tell you right there on the site, which is awesome.

[EM Schultz]

Give your summer closet and upgrade with quince. Go to quince.com drink for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com drink to get shipping and 365 day returns. Quinn.com drink.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, right. I got recognized. So that's how we got to this story. Her name was Jenny. I think she actually recognized me while I had the most insane amount of pasta in my mouth. It was very embarrassing because I. She had to then stand there and wait for me to chew.

[Christine Schiefer]

I hate when that happens. But she knows more embarrassing thing is being the person who's waiting for the other person because you're like, oops, I did. Bad timing.

[EM Schultz]

So don't worry, I'm Jenny or Janie. Anyway, she.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God, you don't even know her name.

[EM Schultz]

I couldn't hear. I was chewing.

[Christine Schiefer]

But she. Okay, fair.

[EM Schultz]

But she came over and she was like, sorry, are you. Do you have a podcast? And then I had to do this.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just, like, rigatoni falling. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Like, I was like, you couldn't have waited until I swallowed and then came on over? But okay. Anyway, it was a very special experience for both of us. And she said. And she said she was from Oregon and always wanted me to cover this cryptid. So to redeem myself from the pasta experience and the forgetting the name and not knowing your name, here is hopefully the cryptid you suggested. Maybe I don't remember that either.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God. Imagine.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, I, I. Oh, my God.

[Christine Schiefer]

Janie, Joanie, Pep. Jenny. Post this on Reddit and be like, wow, they're so out of touch.

[EM Schultz]

If you write in and your name's like, patricia, I'm gonna feel so bad. God. Okay, let me finish this cherry because I've been holding it for a long time.

[Christine Schiefer]

Look at. Now look. Joanie, Janie, Jenny. It happens to me too sometimes. I'm just sitting here having a conversation. Em starts chewing, and it's like, oh, really? Now I gotta sit here and wait for you to finish chewing? This is. Honestly, don't worry, it's not a U problem. It's an M problem.

[EM Schultz]

It is a. Okay, first of all, that cherry, I touched it and it was the exact. Right? And I was like, I can't sit here for an hour and not eat this.

[Christine Schiefer]

So you gotta. You gotta.

[EM Schultz]

I need to get out of my system.

[Christine Schiefer]

So this is colossal Claude into your system. Colossal Claude, you say hello?

[EM Schultz]

Hello, says Claude.

[Christine Schiefer]

I say.

[EM Schultz]

That'S beautiful. Claude says nothing back. He actually turned around and walked away.

[Christine Schiefer]

That always happens.

[EM Schultz]

So he is a cryptid in Oregon's Columbia River. He's apparently also known as the Columbia Bar Sea Serpent.

[Christine Schiefer]

I like the other one better.

[EM Schultz]

Me too. Colossal Claude. Hello. I'm sure he prefers Bar Sea Serpents, but perhaps, Perhaps. Well, so this is when I say it's a quick story. There's only like three sightings of this guy, but apparently he is a. What's it like, an undercut indie favorite of the crypto.

[Christine Schiefer]

I love that. Okay. When I went to that museum and Kentucky, that Crip, that paranormal museum in Somerset, I. They had a whole list of cryptids. And Sherry, my mother in law, was like, do you know all those? And I was like, before even thinking, I was like, oh, I'm sure I do. And I looked and I was like, I don't know, like a third of these. They were so obscure. I wonder if this was on there.

[EM Schultz]

Maybe. I. I also, I'm like, Sasquatch. Like, that's gonna take forever. That's so much, so much research, which I've. I have done Sasquatch, I think. Or at least I have working notes for it.

[Christine Schiefer]

Or like, you did it live.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. And the Jersey Devil.

[Christine Schiefer]

I think you did. Yeah. You did Sasquatch live the day. I did D.B. cooper. And our show was like three and a half hours long. I remember because my brother was there and he was like, Jesus Christ.

[EM Schultz]

Sorry, everyone.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, it was a great time, but I just remember both of us picking like monster stories. I think it was Portland, Oregon.

[EM Schultz]

Well, this is no Sasquatch. This is a quick one. But I think everyone just especially Sasquatch is in Oregon too. I think so. He just gets all the attention. So this guy's kind of an unsung hero, you know?

[Christine Schiefer]

I love that. I love that you said it's like an indie. An indie cryptid.

[EM Schultz]

All of a sudden you're gonna be like the favorite hipster fan of his.

[Christine Schiefer]

I am already. I told you. Awooga from the start.

[EM Schultz]

Little did you know, I actually already spoke colossal. So his three sightings were in the 1930s, so almost 100 years without anyone seeing him. It's almost as if I wouldn't even.

[Christine Schiefer]

Think about what Jenny slash Joanie would say.

[EM Schultz]

Patricia would be so hard. Yeah. Sorry, Diane. I hope you're okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

Can I be honest? I don't remember names. I'm so. I know it's like such a lame thing to say. I'm bad at names. But like, I think in those moments too, you're so like, wired to be just like friendly, chatty, like be. You know, and then it's like that information doesn't necessarily stick, you know, So I don't think it's. It's not personal.

[EM Schultz]

I'm already excited. If there's an email from Megan, eventually Where it says, my name is Janie, Joanie, Patricia, Diane.

[Christine Schiefer]

What if it's actually Megan and you've just blocked it out? You know, what if the name makes sense? Yeah, that would make a lot of sense.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, so in 1934 is our first sighting of this big old sea serpent. It was seen by a guy named La Larson, and he was the first mate of a tender boat called the Rose. If you had a boat, what the hell would you call it?

[Christine Schiefer]

Not that.

[EM Schultz]

Me either.

[Christine Schiefer]

USS oh, I've thought about this before, and I. The SS I don't know.

[EM Schultz]

I wish I came up with, like, a funny thing.

[Christine Schiefer]

I. I wish. I feel like this is a question I should. We should be prepared to answer because it feels like something you'd get asked in, like, a weird context. Sex like this. Yeah, but I don't even have. I wouldn't probably name it after Leona. I just. You know how people do that. Like, they name it after our wives or whatever.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

It just feels.

[EM Schultz]

The Leota sounds good, though.

[Christine Schiefer]

It does, though. Yeah, maybe. But I think, like, she's got enough of a 99th percent tell head circumference. I don't need to, like, name a boat after.

[EM Schultz]

She wouldn't even be able to fit on the boat.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, fair. She capsize it and then what?

[EM Schultz]

You know, she's too top heavy. Yeah, she would just. That thing would go down.

[Christine Schiefer]

Big brain.

[EM Schultz]

Now, I mean, if you were to say, like, I'm sailing the Mighty Leona. That sounds very poetic.

[Christine Schiefer]

I like that. But then it feels like that's gonna sink and become a haunted ship. Doesn't it feel like it has, like, a cursed history, like a cursed future? It feels like 100 SS Leona, the ghostly Ship. Like, I don't want to, like, get involved in any of this shipwreck business.

[EM Schultz]

But you would be manifesting lore for her, which is nice.

[Christine Schiefer]

That is true. And I probably wouldn't allow her on this boat because I feel like it's bound to end in a bad situation just by the name alone.

[EM Schultz]

I see. I see. You know, I would like to think that I would have, like, something punny, like there was.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, same.

[EM Schultz]

I don't know. I. I'm not gonna be able to come up with an answer.

[Christine Schiefer]

I would want to be, like, really proud to say the name of it.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. But, like, here's the thing, though. God, I wish I could. I wish.

[Christine Schiefer]

My God. What if we called it the SS Jenny slash Joanie slash Patricia slash Diane?

[EM Schultz]

Well, that's it. Now that's Hysterical.

[Christine Schiefer]

We forgot our name.

[EM Schultz]

So we gave her four different ones.

[Christine Schiefer]

And then them are her real name.

[EM Schultz]

That. That's. Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God. This poor person is like, why are they still talking about me?

[EM Schultz]

I honestly. Actually, that's. That's easily the answer. That's so funny.

[Christine Schiefer]

Really good.

[EM Schultz]

That's so funny. But I. We were. I recently went on a boat with Allison, and it was, like, at the harbor in Long Beach, I think. And there was. At least. I wish I remember what the pun was, but, like, five boats had that pun. And I really. I'd be so embarrassed if, like, I went up to someone and told them my boat's name, and I was like, this is. How funny is this? They'd be like, I heard that 10 times today.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yikes. Like, that's my boat, too.

[EM Schultz]

Like, yeah, exactly.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's. And I got my boat a year before you did. Like, that's what the. The between the lines says to me. Yeah. Like, you're late to the joke. Oh, that's. That hurts.

[EM Schultz]

Ah. Anyway, well, this one's called the rose.

[Christine Schiefer]

Great.

[EM Schultz]

1934. The rose. And it's also the tender boat, like, the smaller boat of a bigger boat.

[Christine Schiefer]

Got it.

[EM Schultz]

So people are on the Rose, and all of a sudden they see this big creature swimming through the waters. And the entire crew on the other ship also sees it.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. Like the bigger one.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. So the captain. His name's Captain Jensen, he said that it was this massive fucking thing swimming through the water right next to their boat. It had the body of a snake. It was roughly 40ft long.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[EM Schultz]

Which I don't even know if I can figure out in my head how big 40ft is.

[Christine Schiefer]

Unless it's, like, next to your boat. And you know how long. You know what I mean? Like, if you know how long your boat is and you're like, oh, it must. But, yeah, that feels. And also, under the water, like, you're only seeing parts of it, you know, I would imagine.

[EM Schultz]

How long is a school bus? Okay. 40ft. Hell, yeah, brother.

[Christine Schiefer]

You are kidding me. So it's the length of a school bus. That's amazing.

[EM Schultz]

And so. That's so funny. Okay. I'm so good.

[Christine Schiefer]

So weird and so random.

[EM Schultz]

I'm so good.

[Christine Schiefer]

You are. So you should get a boat. Boat.

[EM Schultz]

I should get a school bus and put that on a boat.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, you should get a school bus.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. So it's roughly the size of a boat. A bus. A school bus. And it's driving. Swimming around, you horrifying. One source, I guess one of the people on the boat said that it had a neck that was eight feet long.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[EM Schultz]

Which is two feet taller than me. Yikes. That's just the neck. Talk about a digestive tract. Holy.

[Christine Schiefer]

How wide is a school bus?

[EM Schultz]

It's about a third of a school bus. No, a fourth of a school bus. And it had a big round body apparent. This is a quote. A neck eight feet long, a big round body, a mean looking tail and an evil snake look to its head.

[Christine Schiefer]

A mean looking tail and an evil look to the face.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, yeah, but if it don't. Don't get that twisted. Not an evil tail on a mean face.

[Christine Schiefer]

Correct. That would be really silly of me. Also, like, imagine if it had a nice face. Like, I don't think anything swimming around you that looks. Looks menacing is gonna have a nice face.

[EM Schultz]

I think the sentence would be more meaningful if one side was evil and the other was sweet. Oh.

[Christine Schiefer]

Or if they maybe gave some actual information. Like, hey, it had a sharp thing on its tail. Not like an evil tail. What the does that even mean?

[EM Schultz]

Like, is that scales or flames?

[Christine Schiefer]

Doesn't like opossums and rats because they have evil tails. You know, it's like that doesn't exactly. But like, you can't necessarily equate that. Like, give me some specifics.

[EM Schultz]

And I've always said that. So.

[Christine Schiefer]

Always said that.

[EM Schultz]

A different source. Here's. Here's where it gets even weirder because they said a mean looking tail and an evil snake look to its head, but then a different person said it does have the body of a serpent, but its head is a horse.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, you dummy.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, I'm like, in the fear. I was still able to recognize it was a horse. What are you talking about?

[Christine Schiefer]

Seahorse?

[EM Schultz]

Now that's a great question.

[Christine Schiefer]

Because it's like with a mane. What do you mean? Like, is the mane just like all like matted? Because it's been in the. Like, I don't understand.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. Honestly though, imagine having like a horse mane constantly drenched when you're getting out of the water for a second.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh my God. And then it gets stuck on break barnacles all the time. And your neck is eight feet thick. So it's like already hard enough.

[EM Schultz]

You know, I can't you. And also, what are you able to swallow if your neck is eight feet long?

[Christine Schiefer]

Like, what are you buddy in anything?

[EM Schultz]

The rose is in trouble. That tiny little tender school bus. It's like a chicken nugget for him.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, yum.

[EM Schultz]

So crew members are watching this thing swim around. They're all apparently sharing binoculars and watching this thing. Why do you need binoculars if this thing is the size of a school bus? And actually, great question. Anyway, eventually the captain, they asked the captain if they could get a closer look. How much closer can you get to this thing, I wonder?

[Christine Schiefer]

Stupid.

[EM Schultz]

And the cap, the captain said no because this thing is so big that it might topple the boat.

[Christine Schiefer]

What the fuck? Like, no, we're not gonna drive toward the evil looking snake creature.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, the school bus sized horse headed evil thing.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Let's go run it over and see what happens.

[EM Schultz]

And also in 1930, in my mind, they only have like wooden oars. It's not like they're speeding down there.

[Christine Schiefer]

They don't have like the coast Guard on call, you know.

[EM Schultz]

Well, this was. And the captain not only said no, because that was like stupid. And I don't know what the standards and practices are for a big monster in the water, but certainly the captain was on the right side. But to add to it, this crew, I guess had recently had a lot of bad luck. Like they spent a month in the water during rainstorms. Like, it was only rainstorms for like 30 days, not good. Then they spent. Oh, one of like, one of the crew members had a mental breakdown. Oh. In the Oregonian magazine newspaper. Oregonian, it's quoted saying, Oregon, like Oregonian.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, yeah, Oregonian. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. Yeah, thank you. I didn't know about this one crew member who like had a, like some sort of anxiety attack or something in the 1930s. They were quoted saying he became insane and had to be tied up for safety until a lighthouse tender was able to creep close enough three days later to take him off and hustle him ashore where he could relax and quiet his nerves. So he like, lost. Those 30 days in the rain were crazy.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, honestly, it's like, well, sure, if you're already feeling it and then you're. If you have any mental health issues and suddenly everyone's tying you with ropes like, like, yeah, that's messy.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, but imagine you're having that kind of mental breakdown, let's say, because you're stressed about being in the water or you miss home or you. Whatever the reason is. Imagine then the next day a school sized. A school bus sized horse shows up in the water.

[Christine Schiefer]

Honestly, do you know how I'd feel? I'd be like, oh, thank God everyone's paying attention to something else. Fine.

[EM Schultz]

Actually, that's a great point because my first thought was like, that would have been something to snap about if I snapped one day later, people would have understood.

[Christine Schiefer]

At least now everyone. But now it's like everyone else is like just as crazy as I am. Wait. Hooray. You know?

[EM Schultz]

And at the very least, I'm so nosy, I'd be like, I had to deal with all this for the last month on this boat and I missed the school bus sized horse. Are you kidding me? That would have made my day. Really? Really.

[Christine Schiefer]

And now everyone believes you.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the captain said no more chaos for any of us. We're not getting near that thing. Let's stay away from the forty foot horse snake. And although they reported this experience, the news never really picked it up. I don't know if that's because it was the 1930s and they didn't have enough. Oy Mistas.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[EM Schultz]

Whatever. Three years later, in 1937, another report comes in. So three years it hasn't been seen, but this whole boat full of people saw it. So that's interesting because usually it's only like one guy saw or like a.

[Christine Schiefer]

Dad and a son who are out fishing and like.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

I feel like a group is different.

[EM Schultz]

So people had technically heard of it if they were reading the right newspaper, I guess, or if they went to the right pub and heard the story, but nobody had seen anything. Three years later, another captain of a different boat. This one's called the Viv, which I also wouldn't name my boat, but it's fun than the rose.

[Christine Schiefer]

I like the Viv. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Captain Graham of the Viv, he saw something and he called it, quote, a long hairy tan colored creature with a head of an overgrown horse. 40ft long and a four foot waist.

[Christine Schiefer]

A four foot waist. So it's like hourglass figure, you know.

[EM Schultz]

That's a great point.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like eight foot neck and a four foot waist.

[EM Schultz]

If you're. Your neck is eight feet long and then half that on its side, wide, big ass neck like a dinosaur, like a brontosaurus or something.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I thought it was how wide it was. Okay, I see, I see, I see.

[EM Schultz]

No, it's 8ft tall and its waist is half that on its side. It's, it's a weird, weird, weird shaped animal, but 40ft and a horse head. So we're all of a sudden, we're on the same track now again, you could just like, like maybe in boating conversations, in like the boating circles, it's like everyone knows about this creature and now we're just saying circles.

[Christine Schiefer]

Heard of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[EM Schultz]

But, but no one else has come forward and like had such an intense need to report it to the newspaper again, not much was done, but a few months after this guy said he saw something. A couple that was out by the water, they saw what they called an aquatic giraffe. Whoa, love that.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm so glad you specified the eight foot thing because I would have been like. Sorry, what? This is a totally different.

[EM Schultz]

What is this, Jumanji? Yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like what is happening in this water? Okay, okay, so the eight foot long neck. Okay, get it, I get it. The giraffe, that's. That's honestly the best description so far.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, I think so. Because if it's. I mean, I guess a giraffe is a horse head with a long ass neck.

[Christine Schiefer]

Good point. As the mane and all that.

[EM Schultz]

It. Yeah, look, it's not main.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't know what it's called, but you know what I mean.

[EM Schultz]

Why has no one else said giraffe yet?

[Christine Schiefer]

Great point. Maybe it doesn't have the little horns that a giraffe has.

[EM Schultz]

Oh yeah, the teeny tiny ones. What is that for? What is that?

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, you know how they always wrestle with their necks?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, but that. Wouldn't you make those. Wouldn't God turn those into little spikes if they were supposed to be weapons?

[Christine Schiefer]

Wouldn't God have done a lot of things?

[EM Schultz]

Why did God make a giraffe for someone of all animals.

[Christine Schiefer]

First of all, they're actually called ossicones ones. So check yourself.

[EM Schultz]

I watched you Google it.

[Christine Schiefer]

Everyone heard me Google it.

[EM Schultz]

Ossicones.

[Christine Schiefer]

Ossicones. And they are columnar. Columnar or conical skin covered bone structures on the heads of giraffes. Male okapi and some of their extinct relatives.

[EM Schultz]

What are they for?

[Christine Schiefer]

Similar to speed. Oh. Yep. They use them as weapons during combat. Told you where. They use their heads as clubs. Yep. They allow. It allows them to deliver heavier blows with higher contact pressure and nerve bundles and large blood supply in the oscons have led some research to speculate that structures may also play a role in thermoregulation. Interestingly, that is interesting because it's teeny tiny the top of the dome. So you know, I could be wrong.

[EM Schultz]

Off the top of the Oscar cones or whatever.

[Christine Schiefer]

Off the top of my oscar cone. That was. That was on Wikipedia, just FYI.

[EM Schultz]

Interesting. Yeah. So it feels like then they're just like stabbing each other with a dull knife then.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, no, I think they're like. But if they're like thick bony structures and so like when you're swinging your head around like that would thwap you, you know, because they do fight with those giant necks.

[EM Schultz]

I used to think they were the giraffe's ears.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, they got those two.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. What's the main called? Off the dome, off the ossicones. What do you.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's called giraffe main.

[EM Schultz]

I already know you're looking giraffe main.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm not. I'm actually just cutting out. Do you hear me glitching? Yeah, it's just actually called a main. So I was right the first time.

[EM Schultz]

I'm so glad that we thought about it, though.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thank you for reminding me. Me? Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, so aquatic giraffe. Basically, imagine a giraffe on top and a snake on the bottom.

[Christine Schiefer]

I can't. Okay, okay. I'm trying. I'm trying my best.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. And then that would also make sense why it's the size of a school bus too. That I feel like it would draft is the same.

[Christine Schiefer]

Total sense. You're right.

[EM Schultz]

Just imagine a giraffe swimming. Damn. No.

[Christine Schiefer]

This is getting so scary.

[EM Schultz]

Except the giraffe wouldn't have any of its tall ass legs. How tall is a giraffe without its legs? Because without my legs, I'm like 3ft feet.

[Christine Schiefer]

If you make me close out of the giraffe Wikipedia page one more time and sorry. Okay, find it again.

[EM Schultz]

How much of the height is the leg? You know what I mean? Like, how much of Hank without his legs is just like an inch, it seems.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. Oh, okay. The leg is a significant part, approximately six feet long. But then obviously the neck is also about 6ft long. So pretty similar, I think, on average.

[EM Schultz]

Interesting, dude.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like this related question. Do giraffes have four legs? Oh, God, how many people are asking that?

[EM Schultz]

Okay, anyway, enough about drafts. But this thing looks like an acquired draft. They said it's neck stuck out 15ft out of the water, which means it's double giraffe. If it's like six.

[Christine Schiefer]

What the.

[EM Schultz]

If the. If the neck is usually six feet on a draft and this thing's 15, that's like two and a half drafts.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, that's giant.

[EM Schultz]

Imagine two and a half drafts stuck together in a trench coat.

[Christine Schiefer]

Can you imagine one more thing coming through the water?

[EM Schultz]

Oh, man, I have so many things to say about this.

[Christine Schiefer]

I only have so much, like, so much like, creative juice in my mind left for today.

[EM Schultz]

Well, this couple said the neck was 15ft out of the water and almost as if it was just like standing in the water. Like as if we were standing in the shallow end and they Said its body felt closer to 60ft, which is terrifying.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, so it's grown.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. The giraffe and the couple apparently stared at each other for a very long time. Close range. And then it got spooked by something and swam away.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's good.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. I don't know if I would want to stare it down, but, like, what do you do?

[Christine Schiefer]

Right? Because if you're, like. If I move, maybe it'll like, startle it, you know? I feel like it's just that, like, frozen. Like, like, now what?

[EM Schultz]

Or what if it accidentally followed me home and I, like, just. Just climbed out with its spindly legs out of the water?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. But now we have either a really, really wretched horror story or a cute children's book idea.

[EM Schultz]

That's a great children's book.

[Christine Schiefer]

Depends on what angle we take.

[EM Schultz]

By the way, talk about you and me writing, like, a kids book one day. Imagine a series of Cryptid books for kids, but one of them is Colossal Claw. And he's just a little scared of people.

[Christine Schiefer]

He's just a giant giraffe with spindly legs following you home. And what's so scary about that?

[EM Schultz]

So we should. Okay. There was a book growing up called Flipped. Where? Do you remember that book?

[Christine Schiefer]

No.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, it was so good because it was about this little guy, this little, little guy, this little boy and this little girl. And you would read the guy's version. He was, like, 10 and had, like. I think the girl was either mean to him or he had a crush on her. I don't remember which one. And you would read his whole story, then you would turn the book upside down, and on the other side of the book was her perspective of everything. And then. Yeah, it was, like, such a cool. It blew my mind when I was a little kid. We should do that with Colossal Claude, where it's like Colossal Claude being nervous and then, like, the townspeople running in fear.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's like, well, he just wants to belong, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, it's like, wicked but cryptid.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right? Same difference.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. The last sighting was in 1939, so two years after that.

[Christine Schiefer]

That.

[EM Schultz]

And there was a boat called the Argo, which is my middle favorite of the boat names. And Captain Anderson on this boat claims that the creature was 10ft from them during the sighting. Its head and neck were poking out of the water while it was eating some fish. Now, mind you, the Argo is a fishing boat. So really what the captain saw was this creature eating their supply, which I love. And one source said that Colossal Claude raided the boat like, he's a fucking pirate. But he really actually was. He was definitely stealing their fish because this is a quote from Captain Anderson. He had a bent snout that he used to push a 20 pound halibut off of our own fishing lines and into his mouth.

[Christine Schiefer]

What the f. Okay, this is getting weird because I'm like, okay, it's one thing to see it from afar and then the stories grow, but like to be like, hey, I'm working and this thing interfering with our job.

[EM Schultz]

Think of how much money a fishing, a fisherman would have gotten for a 20 pound halibut.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't have any clue, but more than a dollar. I imagine it's a good amount. Yeah, yeah.

[EM Schultz]

And to watch it just more than.

[Christine Schiefer]

None, you know, I.

[EM Schultz]

And to, to watch this creature pull it off the fishing line feels like you just watch them like slurp it off a popsicle stick and it's like, thank you so much for catching that for me. Now I'm gonna eat it.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[EM Schultz]

The crew did say some, some, some new information about him, that he has glassy eyes.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right. Well, he's coming right toward them, so I guess they get a good view. Right. Of his little head.

[EM Schultz]

Not the horse. Not the head of a horse or a giraffe. But this time he was described as the head of a camel, which I guess they're all very similar.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, okay. So, hey, that's. That is similar. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

And course teeth. Yeah. And also, does that have. Now with the fish eating black tongue.

[Christine Schiefer]

I was gonna say camels, giraffes, I don't think they eat fish. Like, Right. That's not a thing. They live in the, like, Sahara, like a.

[EM Schultz]

Now that's a great point.

[Christine Schiefer]

Why on earth is this thing eating fish?

[EM Schultz]

Now that's another.

[Christine Schiefer]

Even made for that.

[EM Schultz]

Another great children's story is a camel finding water for the first time and going, holy.

[Christine Schiefer]

And just sitting a bunch of animals instead of like never leaving. Yeah. Oh, that's kind of nice. Well, that's like an oasis, I guess, in the desert.

[EM Schultz]

Desert, I don't know. This one's a whole ass river. He just, he just floats for the rest of time. Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

That. These just feel like they're on the edge of being really upsetting. I feel like we need to rein it in a little and make it a little more whimsical, but we can work on that.

[EM Schultz]

How about I pitch you the ideas and then you make them family friendly?

[Christine Schiefer]

I soften them a little. Sure, sure, sure.

[EM Schultz]

You're the Ms. Rachel. To my Stephen King.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, okay, wait. Okay, okay. We can do that as teamwork work.

[EM Schultz]

So apparently he was so huge that the captain and the crew didn't. They really didn't want to move and, like, move the boat at all because they were afraid that he would have, quote, sunk them with one nudge.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. Wow.

[EM Schultz]

Which, like, imagine you're like. It's like Clifford the Dog going in for a nose boop. And he, like, break.

[Christine Schiefer]

Breaks the house and you're just, like, frozen. I mean, that's. It is really scary.

[EM Schultz]

Well, one of the crew, literally. This is like, the idiot of the boat tried to poke him.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, good.

[EM Schultz]

With a boat hook.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, for God's sake.

[EM Schultz]

And the captain put it into that right away. Can you. You know that guy got fired on that day immediately?

[Christine Schiefer]

I sure hope so.

[EM Schultz]

Well, this was the last of only three confirmed sightings of Colossal Claude, despite there being other less well documented sightings. But These are the three that people really care about. By World War II, nobody was reporting on Colossal Claude. He seemingly kind of faded away. And theories suggest that he was some sort of large fish in the water, like an oarfish, a whale, or a shark. A lot of marine biologists say that he was some in. Somewhere in the shark family. Someone said he is a jellyfish. Camels and jellyfish. I'm so sorry. Look different and are completely different sizes. Someone was. I think someone overheard someone else.

[Christine Schiefer]

How many legs does a giraffe have?

[EM Schultz]

Truly, it sounds like someone overheard another group of people talking about Colossal Claw and just wanted to try, like, fish.

[Christine Schiefer]

Jellyfish. Yeah, let's just go with that.

[EM Schultz]

So most people think it's probably just like a weirdly oversized shark or it's like a weirdly oversized water snake. But many people, and especially in the cryptid world, think that he is the last of a colony of Plesiosaurus, which is the same as Nessie. And when you look up Nessie, that also looks like maybe an aquatic.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's a plesiosaurus, right?

[EM Schultz]

Plesiosaurus.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right, Em. You're right. I just looked up plesiosaurus, and they have that creepy little neck.

[EM Schultz]

It has a giraffe neck and it has, like, maybe a not so snake like, head. I wouldn't call it a horse, giraffe, or camel, but. Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. But I guess if it were, like, happening in front of you and you didn't get a good. I don't know. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Wow.

[EM Schultz]

It looks like a. Like a snake, an underwater snake dinosaur.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'M literally on like DND websites because that's where the information is. So, like that. This is the most convincing to me so far.

[EM Schultz]

Of course. Well, yeah, sadly, a lot of my cryptid information does come from like fan.

[Christine Schiefer]

Sites because it's like, yeah, they do their work. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying. Yeah, it's kind of bummer that there's not like more official documentation.

[EM Schultz]

Well, people think that Claude may be a lone plesiosaur, US Plesiosaurus that may be stuck around here because he found the river salmon population.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, and then he has all these fishermen just like feeding him off the popsicle stick.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, it's like a dog finding a field full of spoonfuls of peanut butter.

[Christine Schiefer]

That people are just living behind a restaurant. The cats living by the seafood restaurant being like, this is perfect.

[EM Schultz]

He's literally a water cat. Yes.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God. Now hold on. Oliver and company. But make it it plesiosaur. You know, easy.

[EM Schultz]

We'll shop it.

[Christine Schiefer]

We'll shop it.

[EM Schultz]

We'll sh. It'll be part of our book series. We'll put all around the same time. All sightings were. Oh, the reason that they claim this or why they think that maybe he's living off the salmon is one one of those sightings was that he was eating fish. Also, all the sightings were during salmon seasons and when the population slowly petered out, so did the sightings of him. So they think maybe he followed other fish to a different area or maybe he just died because he was hungry and there weren't fish. Oh, and since he's a plesiosaur, technically he could get out of the water because plesiosaurs are like seals where like, you can be out of the water for a second.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

So in theory, he could have waltzed away, but then again, people would have noticed a 60 foot school bus horse, camel, draft snake.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you think you'd think, you'd think you'd like to hope so.

[EM Schultz]

Although interesting that that, like I said, multiple groups years apart from each other with minimal news coverage to have biased them. They have all claimed to see the same thing.

[Christine Schiefer]

I find in the same area. I find that very intriguing.

[EM Schultz]

In 2017, there was a bit of a resurgence for Colossal Claude. He got a shout out on this show called the Proof is Out There.

[Christine Schiefer]

Hell yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Season three, Episode six. It's essentially like a Unsolved Mysteries, but then they give you a verdict of like, what they think really happens.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. I love it.

[EM Schultz]

It so in 2017, there were these two friends that went kayaking in the area, and they. It's 2017. So they had their phones out and they saw something weird in the water. They're like, what the is that? So they filmed it. So that film. That footage got on the show.

[Christine Schiefer]

I almost said this during. I was like, man, I wish that there were any sources besides 1930s when someone had a camera phone. So that's very exciting. Okay.

[EM Schultz]

So they. And also what they saw. I will say, if you and I saw that, we would have been pooping ourselves.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I don't doubt it. It.

[EM Schultz]

They started seeing strange bubbles rise from the water. And not like a. Like a low simmer. Like, all of a sudden, it looked like like a fountain was trying to turn on under the water. Or like. Like when the sprinklers are kind of up, so they're kind of half spouting. Yes.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, I don't like that. I don't. It's gurgling. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

[EM Schultz]

So that started happening in the water. He takes his iPhone and. Actually, I think maybe it was waterproof or Water Galaxy.

[Christine Schiefer]

So be careful.

[EM Schultz]

It was some sort of. I can film underwater phone.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, oh, okay.

[EM Schultz]

Because then he puts his phone in the water to be, like, what's under the water that's causing these bubbles? And he couldn't see anything because as soon as he put his phone down there, there was this, like, underwater eruption of, like, leaves and mud, and everything got, like, super brown and disgusting and like, totally blocked any view of what he could have seen.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[EM Schultz]

Funny enough, the second kayaker was so scared that she started kayaking away and left him.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, every person for themselves, Even.

[EM Schultz]

If it's just, like, some sort of natural wonder. It was. It would have. And you're on the water, too. It's not like you're seeing it from a bridge. Like, you're literally sitting on the girl.

[Christine Schiefer]

You're in its house all of a sudden. And then you're also, like, in a kayak. Which, of all the boats, I would argue that and a canoe are the most flippable, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Absolutely.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

But there's just, like, debris everywhere. Apparently, the mud and the leaves smelled like ass. Like, he was like this. Like, you could even hear him in the footage go, what is that smell?

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, do you think he's, like, lays down there and just waits and rises. Oh, well.

[EM Schultz]

So on the show, they had, like, talking heads of, like, someone who leaned into the spooky side of things. Someone who leaned into the Science side of things. And one of the talking heads said, as a suggestion, he was like, well, you know, in this area, there's an underwater cryptid named Colossal Claude. And that's how he got, like, this shout out. And now if you look up Colossal Claude, it'll say he was featured on Proof. Proof is out there, really. He just got a bit of a shout out.

[Christine Schiefer]

Was it the same area, though?

[EM Schultz]

It was the same area.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, so that does track.

[EM Schultz]

It was, like, not enough officially, like, Columbia river, but, like, the waters connect and they're in the same area. But another talking head who was. I think she was the neutral party, she said, well, the lake doesn't have enough salmon or fish these days to sustain a massive creature like Colossal Clod, so it probably wasn't him. And I like how, like, that's the reasoning.

[Christine Schiefer]

I love the logic.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, yeah. She was. She was definitely playing for both teams, I guess.

[Christine Schiefer]

I love that. She's like. She's like, I'll be diplomatic about this.

[EM Schultz]

She's like, maybe. However, there's really not a lot of fish. And then another guy who was a geologist, he said it was just gas trapped at the bottom of the lake and it released methane, which is why it smells.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, that does make some sense, I would say, the bubbles, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, yeah. And he said all it takes is, like, one little crack of, like, the rocks with all that pressure to just, like. Cause he sounds like a very. It's a common, natural thing that happens.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

But it looked scary as. And the show even says, quote our verdict, natural gas. No.

[Christine Schiefer]

Could. Ancient alien. Could this alien? The theorists say yes.

[EM Schultz]

Well, so although Colossal Claude hasn't been seen in quite a long time, his memory lives on amongst Cryptid lovers. And he even has his own craft beer called the Rogue Colossal Claude ipa. And in quotes, with a colossal dose of hops.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, yeah, that's gonna be a. The doozy.

[EM Schultz]

And that's Colossal Cloud.

[Christine Schiefer]

Very good.

[EM Schultz]

Thank you, Janie, Joni, Patricia, Debbie, whatever your name is.

[Christine Schiefer]

Diane, come on. Oh, my God, that was great. I bet. I hope that. I hope that they're not like, I hope they listen to this episode. Imagine they miss this by some odd.

[EM Schultz]

That'd be crazy if you're out there.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just. Sorry about that, but also so sorry. This is what happens if you speak to us in public. We really go off the rails. And I'm. I do apologize.

[EM Schultz]

And I'm so sorry that you saw so much pasta just being shoved. It was like I was shoveling it. It looks like it was my last meal on earth. Like of all the meals to catch me in, that was the wrong one. I'm so sorry.

[Christine Schiefer]

As someone who's witnessed it many a time, I do also want to apologize and say I understand.

[EM Schultz]

Been through one time. I, I, the only other time that's ever happened, I got recognized at the airport and I was about to miss my flight and I had all this Panda Express from the food court and I was like, truly like, couldn't breathe. I was shoving as much in my mouth as I could.

[Christine Schiefer]

And of all things Panda Express is.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, yeah. And I was sitting, I was sitting in a chair next to our gate and I look over at the person sitting next to me and on her lap is her phone out. And I can see that she's listening to. And that's why we drink dollar up and I, and I look at her and go, and then she looks at me and she goes, hi. Like she just, like she knew I knew. And I couldn't even say anything because my mouth was full of food. It was just all your eyes said.

[Christine Schiefer]

It all your panic stricken eyes said it all.

[EM Schultz]

Between Panda express girl and Ms. Diane, or whatever your name is, I, I appreciate both of you just letting me be in public. That's very nice. Thank you.

[Christine Schiefer]

M likes to really be themselves, you know, out and about. So. And we all like to respect that.

[EM Schultz]

So I, I've learned I'm just gonna be a better eater.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, you be yourself. We all love this. You, you are.

[EM Schultz]

Thank you. Well, that's you.

[Christine Schiefer]

You are.

[EM Schultz]

That's colossal. Claude. I'm glad everyone had a fun moment before Christine has to break all of our hearts per weekly chore again and again.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm contractually obligated to ruin your day.

[EM Schultz]

Christ.

[Christine Schiefer]

Huh.

[EM Schultz]

I guess I'll tell you what. I'm trying for once in my life to not splurge like crazy. Well, I'm trying, but that requires me going through all my memberships and being like, cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel.

[Christine Schiefer]

You are so silly.

[EM Schultz]

You. Because I, I can't do it mentally, I can't. I'm checked out. I want to take a nap.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just looking at.

[EM Schultz]

I can't. And luckily we got Rocket Money.

[Christine Schiefer]

I use it almost daily, if not at least maybe like a couple times a week to just check in. And it really helps you, like a grasp on your whole money situation and cancels memberships for you, basically. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bill. So you can grow your savings.

[EM Schultz]

Rocket Money's dashboard gives you a clear view of your expenses across all of your accounts. So if you're like, oh, man, well, what am I spending money on here? What am I spending money here? You can see all of it. Like, it's. It's beautiful. It's truly like, for. For someone who needs to, like, gamify their way of thinking just to be simply bare minimum productive.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Rocket Money is meant for that kind of brain.

[Christine Schiefer]

Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.

[EM Schultz]

Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com Drink today. That's RocketMoney.com Drink MarketMoney.com Drink this podcast is sponsored by the crisp, refreshing, Angry Orchard. Listen, guys, there's a litany of things that we shouldn't get angry about, but let's be honest, sometimes it's hard. Hard not to be. I get angry things all the time. Hank just barked. I hated that immediately.

[Christine Schiefer]

Hard for all of us.

[EM Schultz]

I'm eating cherries and I bit into a pit. That got me really angry.

[Christine Schiefer]

You know what makes us, you know, makes me mad that when my phone thinks I'm really angry and I'm writing ducking.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, all of a sudden I'm ducking pissed.

[Christine Schiefer]

And then I get. I'm like, do you know that you've just agitated me beyond all belief? Anyway, so we're losing the plot here. But, you know, here's the thing. Things are. Things are easy to get angry about. But instead, why don't you get an angry orchard and feel good, feel chill, refreshed, not getting pissed off, just having a tasty orchard. It really does, like, settle my mood. It like lowers my. My stress levels because I'm just. I'm not angry. I'm not as angry when I'm drinking an angry orchard, even though the name.

[EM Schultz]

Implies that I would be not as ducking angry.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, not as ducking mad.

[EM Schultz]

It is a perfect balance of sweetness and bright acidity from culinary apples and dryness of traditional cider making apples, resulting in a complex yet refreshing hard cider cider. Every time Christine drinks one, I hear her do this at the end. She goes, did you hear me just go?

[Christine Schiefer]

That's what I do too. It's so good. I would like one right now. I might actually go get one.

[EM Schultz]

Get an angry orchard cider Today. Don't get angry. Get orchard. Please drink responsibly.

[Christine Schiefer]

What? So what you got? You got your blue juice?

[EM Schultz]

I got my wild blueberry juice.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, I see. I see. It has the aluminum.

[EM Schultz]

She has. She has legs.

[Christine Schiefer]

She has got some legs about her. Look at that.

[EM Schultz]

Look at that. Doesn't it look like. I don't. I don't know much about it except that it's a hundred percent wild blueberries.

[Christine Schiefer]

That is pretty well. Oh. From Maine, even.

[EM Schultz]

That is Maine blueberries. Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Wow.

[EM Schultz]

It says LOL in one bottle. 43 grams of sugar. Holy. Well, shake well before serving.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, wow. Bartender. Star tender.

[EM Schultz]

Look, not my first rodeo, maybe on.

[Christine Schiefer]

Planet Earth, but the gravity might be a little different here.

[EM Schultz]

Is this like almost my first wine that I've ever had?

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God. This is like asmr.

[EM Schultz]

Well, anyway.

[Christine Schiefer]

Ah, okay, never mind. I take it back. I. I spoke too soon about the asmr.

[EM Schultz]

This was my. This is my first time. It seems the. I have to.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, I don't know how to open a wine bottle, and I'm a wino by trade, so.

[EM Schultz]

Elevator music. Okay, here we go. Oh, look, I'm. I'm becoming Christine. I'm just using knives everywhere.

[Christine Schiefer]

I. I really. The sharp. I do see now how alarming it is to be on the other end of this.

[EM Schultz]

Do you?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Well, you.

[EM Schultz]

Now stop or no. Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

What do you think?

[EM Schultz]

As I said it, I went. Why did I say that at all? Okay. Mission accomplished so far.

[Christine Schiefer]

Fantastic.

[EM Schultz]

Just barely. Okay. Oh, she's beautiful.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my gosh. Look at that foam. Whoa. No, I went. I almost went to smell it. Smell of vision.

[EM Schultz]

I mean, I don't. It smells like grapes, which is interesting.

[Christine Schiefer]

Interesting. Maybe it's like. Like the concentrated. Because it's so concentrated.

[EM Schultz]

Here, some ASMR for people.

[Christine Schiefer]

This glass I got of the Jetsons. What in the world.

[EM Schultz]

I'm so excited on. And that's why I drink. I'm drinking for the first time. Ah, she's got. She's got. This is gonna be the moment where I do it all over. I spray the juice all over the. My keyboard.

[Christine Schiefer]

She's so pretty. She's got long legs.

[EM Schultz]

She's a very beautiful color. I hate it.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, you don't.

[EM Schultz]

It's doesn't taste like blueberries.

[Christine Schiefer]

Is it sour.

[EM Schultz]

On the front end? On the front end. It's very tart.

[Christine Schiefer]

What's the nose?

[EM Schultz]

It really smells like wine, which is weird.

[Christine Schiefer]

Are you sure it's not alcohol? Yeah, it's 100% blueberries. You're right.

[EM Schultz]

It really smells.

[Christine Schiefer]

If they card you for it, that.

[EM Schultz]

Would be the question. And it doesn't taste like wine, but it does smell exactly like wine.

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, I bet it smells like wine to someone who doesn't drink wine. I bet to me it would smell.

[EM Schultz]

That's true. I know the. The first. The first little bit of it has, like, a sour bite, and then it doesn't taste like anything.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[EM Schultz]

Which is not what blueberries taste like to me. I was expecting, like, a sweet, sweet, sweet situation.

[Christine Schiefer]

Although, I guess if you bite a blueberry, then they're, like, mostly water inside, kind of. I don't know. It depends.

[EM Schultz]

I kind of want to, like, take a bunch of blueberries from my fridge and smash them up and then try it against this and then prove that.

[Christine Schiefer]

This is a lie, man. Maybe it's because they're wild blueberries.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, you're right.

[Christine Schiefer]

Anyway, I mean, I don't know. Don't say I'm right. I don't fucking know.

[EM Schultz]

I am. I mean, look how, like, the color, like, cakes onto this bottle. Like, look at that. It looks like it's painted now. Now it's not messing around. Thank God I'm not wearing white, but I am gonna do the classic wine thing and sip it anyway, so.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I love that. Oh, my God. What a power move. Hell, yeah.

[EM Schultz]

So I'm gonna say just expect, like.

[Christine Schiefer]

A grimace every few seconds, everyone.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. Well, also, as Christine talks about some horrible.

[Christine Schiefer]

True.

[EM Schultz]

Now there's a. A double entendre whenever I. Yeah, you've.

[Christine Schiefer]

Almost got, like, a double sensation of the, like, just an unpleasant time on all. An affront to all your senses if you.

[EM Schultz]

Exactly right. It's exactly right.

[Christine Schiefer]

And ours, too, so thank you for that. Wow. Wow. M's nostrils flared, so, like, I. I'm.

[EM Schultz]

Not trying to be. I really. I'm going to drink it on principle that I. I bought it at airwan. You know, it was expensive. I have.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I promise it was. Yeah. I don't doubt it.

[EM Schultz]

It's. It is the most beautiful color drink I've ever seen in my life. It is like the.

[Christine Schiefer]

Can I say you don't have to drink it?

[EM Schultz]

I'm sure people have said that to you before, Christine. Did that stop you?

[Christine Schiefer]

It sure didn't. And you know what else? You could also use it instead as, like, a additive to, like, sparkling water or something, or like a mocktail.

[EM Schultz]

That's true. That's what the rest of the bottle meant for.

[Christine Schiefer]

Maybe. Yeah. Okay. So you sip it now. Also think of all those antioxidants I'm.

[EM Schultz]

Thinking about anything to get me through it. So.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. Wow. Yeah. Okay, fair point. Fair point. Alrighty, everybody. I am back at it with the Del. Delphi murders. I have part two here. And I am glad we recorded within, like, a week so that at least we have some, you know, memory of the last episode. Just as a recap, I'm not going to make you go on the stand here, M, but I'm going to give a quick recap and then if you have any questions about anything I missed, let me know.

[EM Schultz]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

Quick recap of the deli murders. Abby and Libby, teenage girls. They were murdered on February 13, 18th, 2017 at the Monon High Bridge. There was that Snapchat video that. Or the Snapchat photos. I'm sorry. That Libby had taken and had taken a video of him on her phone. And police initially released a photo of the suspected murderer. I didn't say where it was from. Ended up being from her cell phone. They also released the first sketch of the suspect because you couldn't see his face in the photo. And they released an audio clip eventually of the man speaking, saying the words, words they believed down the hill, right. This became known as Bridge Guy. And then two years later, at a press conference, the police released a second sketch that looked very different, as we discussed from the first sketch. And people started calling it Old Bridge Guy and Young Bridge Guy because it was like they were so. And the family was very disappointed because they felt they had put so much work into getting that first photo out there.

[EM Schultz]

There also because the pictures look, as I said last time, looked so vastly different, but then apparently overlapped like magic. All of a sudden, they're the same person. You're right.

[Christine Schiefer]

I think the thing. And it. I think it convinced me only because I watched the, like, layover happen. But I think it was. It was the eyes that were so similar. It was almost like, freaky. Maybe that's what it was.

[EM Schultz]

I don't know what it was. But separately, they looked like two completely different people.

[Christine Schiefer]

They sure do. And we have links to those, so we'll. We'll definitely share that. Those. Bridge Guy basically became the person everyone was on the lookout for. Citizen Sleuths online got in the game and started posting. I mean, of course, things always can get out of hand, even if you have the best intention. So online Sleuths were posting, like, side by sides of people they knew. And then the sketch. And it's like you're just creating, like, a frenzy that is Taking away from the real story, know.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

And I'm not saying everybody was doing that. I mean, obviously I do true crime as well for content, but there were just some people who. And I'll get to it, but there were some people who got a little too involved, in my opinion. Okay. And we'll leave it there for now.

[EM Schultz]

Sure.

[Christine Schiefer]

So this second sketch had been released over two years since Abby and Libby were murdered, and there had been pretty much no, Barely any information shared with the public regarding the investigation. Although mainstream media and social media content creators kept proposing, like, different potential suspects, the authorities investigating the case rarely discussed any leads or anybody of interest publicly. And because of this, like, this kind of lack of information and the new sketch, people were starting to think, like, okay, the police have nothing. They have botched this investigation. If they had any information, they would either be sharing it with us or they would be on. On the case and finding the guy.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

And there were. There were a lot of arguments made that, you know, the police weren't prepared for this and didn't have the right resources and perhaps, like, compromise the crime scene, which I know we talk about usually with older cases, but this being in the, you know, close. Closer 2017, so more recent. It was considered that maybe they botched the. Or, you know, contaminated the crime scene. Some people said that all the volunteers searching had trampled through the crime scene. And maybe that's why the, you know, there was no DNA evidence. Like, you'd think, with leaving these two girls in the woods there and a video of him on her phone, that they'd be able to, like, were they.

[EM Schultz]

By the water at all? They couldn't have been washed away or was, like, kind of in the. In the middle.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's. It's pretty much this bridge that goes over this creek. So it's. It. There is water, but I don't believe it's enough to be like, your bodies weren't found by the torrential rain or something. No, no, no.

[EM Schultz]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

And there also wasn't much given about what was left at the scene. So we don't even know if they have DNA evidence. We don't know. There's just not much being shared at all. So people were, like, a little bit confused, especially when that second sketch came out and they went, who the hell is that? You know, like two and a half years ago or two years ago, you said it was this other guy. So there's just a lot of, like. And with the video, you know, they say, oh, there's this video of him but you only get 3 seconds of it and they know there's a longer video. So people are saying, release that, you know, maybe we can find out who it is, is. So it's kind of this, like tension building, right, like between journalists and, and the families and people who want to know, content creators, and then the police kind of holding things close to the vest. So all that to say? Authorities insisted for their part that they needed to keep a tight lid on case details to protect the integrity of the investigation and that they wanted to keep some things private so that, that, you know, if they caught the guy, they'd be able to confirm that he knew details no one else would know.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. So that's the catch up. So do you feel caught up or.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, great. Okay, cool. So here's where we begin with some new info. We're skipping to February of 2021. This is the four year anniversary of the girl's deaths. Libby's grandparents spoke in an interview about their continued hope that the killer would be caught. I imagine that they didn't think they would have to wait till until 2021, you know, post mid Covid to like be still looking for answers. But that is just how it sometimes goes. Although it was two years ago that that second sketch was released, they believed that it could still lead to a break in the case somehow. Maybe somebody just hadn't seen it, that that could help. And they refused to give up on the investigation. They thank their community for, you know, what they were doing and the fact that they kept talking about it and kept caring about it, but that was kind of all they had. They really didn't have much else to go on. So fast forward a few more months. December 6th of 2021, the Indiana State Police released a statement requesting information on two social media accounts. Now, one's on Snapchat, interestingly, and one is on Instagram. And both accounts had the username Anthony. Underscore shots S H O T S. Anthony Schatz posted photos of himself, like expensive cars, like stylish wardrobes, mirror selfies, that kind of thing. None of it was real. It was a catfish. It was this guy.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, no.

[Christine Schiefer]

Using photos of a random male model and other people's cars and houses and belongings and was catfishing girls, little girls. And he did this to connect with girls as young as 12 and gain their friendship and trust. And then would. Would solicit child sexual abuse material from them. And that suddenly was on everyone's radar.

[EM Schultz]

I am writing down my prediction of what happened.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay.

[EM Schultz]

Because I don't want to accidentally say anything and then like take away from.

[Christine Schiefer]

I actually kind of like that angle, you know, like a double blind experiment. That's not what a double blinding. You know what I mean?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

So they asked for any information on this, this. And I, I want to make a point as well here to say that the reason we write sexual abuse, child sexual abuse material is because the term child pornography implies consent. And this being a non consensual situation with minors, child sexual abuse material is just a more appropriate word. So in 2017, investigators tracked this account, Anthony Shots to a residential address in Peru, Indiana. On February 25, which was less than two weeks after Abby and Libby were killed, FBI, state and local police searched the home of 22 year old Keegan Klein. There were thousands of messages between Keegan and miners using varied social media and electronic devices. And it was discovered that he also had had another account where he posed as a teenage girl named Emily Ann.

[EM Schultz]

Oo, okay. Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

The probable cause affidavit filed by the Indiana State Police in 2020 identified Emily Ann as Keegan's stepsister and he would use her pictures to target and groom real teenage girls as friends. Which is just one of the more sinister. I mean, it's just all sinister. When the police released a request for information, remember that was only two weeks after the two girls were killed. Now we are years later, late 2021, and suddenly the police are requesting any public information on Anthony shots. They didn't elaborate on a connection to Abby and Libby. The statement only said, quote, while investigating the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, detectives with the Carroll County Sheriff's office and the Indiana State Police have uncovered an online profile named Anthony She Shots.

[EM Schultz]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

So they basically said while we were, while we were researching or, or investigating.

[EM Schultz]

This case, here's a silly crossover.

[Christine Schiefer]

Here's a silly thing that we were wondering about. No reason. Yeah. And that's how a lot of people took it. Like what the, like were they messaging? Like what's the deal? Is he, is he a suspect? You know, and of course with like a very hungry media out there who's been covering this for years and been speculating, you know, they really, really want to know. Know the statement. It didn't help that the, the email that they released requesting information be sent to Abby and Libby. Tip.

[EM Schultz]

Are you kidding me?

[Christine Schiefer]

I know. And so it's like, okay, clearly there's a connection. Right. But they're not really elaborating.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

And so this clearly Links them. And the statement asked for details from anyone who communicated with him in any way or with this, with this username, with this profile. They also wanted information from anyone who might have attempted to meet Anthony shots in person. Okay, so quickly, of course, people start putting two and two together. They're saying, okay, wait, this guy's being investigated for exploiting children online. And then two girls are killed in the area. You know, it's adding up, it's adding up. And so people decide, you know, it's really obvious these are connected. Libby, Abby are both girls were lured into a trap by an online pressure predator. Becky later said her grandma, Libby's grandma, that Libby was not naive. So if her murder was a planned trap, she didn't believe Libby would go to the woods to meet just anyone, but perhaps she would have gone to meet a friend or somebody that she trusted. So it would almost be that classic story of somebody online, like, really working to groom somebody into feeling safe and comfortable around them. Them. And investigators eventually confirmed that Keegan Klein did in fact, communicate with Libby over social media before her death. The messages were on the phone. They discovered that also had the video of the person walking across the bridge. And the photos.

[EM Schultz]

Did he admit it, or they just saw it on his phone?

[Christine Schiefer]

They saw it on her phone. And they did confirm that the two of them, them were in contact for her murder. But that is as far as they could get with evidence.

[EM Schultz]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

They basically found no other link of them planning to meet up. There was no evidence that they arranged any sort of meeting. But of course, people aren't buying it because they're like, well, what are the odds that, like, she's engaged by this online sexual predator and then targeted by a random violent man within a matter of months by coincidence, like, so people are just like, like, chomping at the bit for more information on this. It got, let's say it got a little out of hand, I would bet.

[EM Schultz]

Especially, like, because you were saying last time, it's like a small town and everyone knows everyone, right? Yes, I feel like everyone, The. The tensions will be heightened very quickly.

[Christine Schiefer]

And I think that this case, now that I think about it, because it makes sense, for obvious reasons, having taken place, place in February of 2017, which is the year we started this podcast, and the year that or the month we started this podcast and the rise of true crime was really, like, hitting that kind of peak. And it was getting. Starting to really snowball. And I think the fact that this happened in 2017 and then, you know, went on for so many years, it became this sort of storyline with certain content creators and. And people covering it and journalists, and they were, like, covering it for such an extended period of time. Like, they were invested, you know, and people wanted to know what happened and wanted this solved. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, of course, but over time, some people took it a little far. And one example is this woman who decided to, as she calls it, catfish. The catfish.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, beautiful. Okay, well, why are you getting involved, babe? Like, yes. Yeah. Meddling. Messy. Messy.

[Christine Schiefer]

It was messy. She started, like, FaceTiming him in jail or, like, sending him videos and saying what it was.

[EM Schultz]

So.

[Christine Schiefer]

And he was in jail for this, for these other charges. And. And. And she was, like, trying. Trying to get on his good side. I don't know. I watched some of the clips and I was like. And she's like, not. She's, like, wearing a towel, but she's like this older woman. And people were like, well, why are you doing that? Like, if he touches. Targets young girls, like, yeah, the whole thing was just strange. And it was kind of like. And then she's like. And I testified at his hearing, and it just is like, okay, yeah, messy. Like, what are you doing? You're. And it's like the thing that one of the guy. One of the people said in the. In the document, one of the documentaries I watched was like, we're forgetting what this is all about. Like, we're not here to, like, play a game and try to trap him into. Like, this is not about. About tricking him into saying so. This is about, like, getting to the bottom of what happened to these girls. And I feel like we're getting away from that, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, no, totally. And also, it's like, I mean, I. I guess if you. I mean, if you think you're being helpful, I could understand why you. Why you would want to do it, but that doesn't mean you should, you know?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[EM Schultz]

The vigilante thing, when there's already, like, barely any evidence. We already only know some of the information, not all of. Of it, which I guess they wouldn't know, but it's so, like, just at least give them a second to try to figure it out. It'd be one thing if, like, we were talking about one of the other missing cases you've recently reported on where, like, the system is not helping the people that are involved, and, like, they have to stand up for themselves and they have to take care of it because no one's looking out for them.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

But, like.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, and I think that was.

[EM Schultz]

Paid attention to that was the argument.

[Christine Schiefer]

That they were sort of making because it had been so, like, years, and they just. They were like, well, they must not have anything, because, like, there's just no answers here. So they were kind of using that argument of, like, well, they're not gonna do it. We're gonna do the vigilante thing. But also, like, it just felt the fact that she's still, like, going on about it, like, it was this huge boon to the case. And, like, I. I mean, and I don't know. I don't know all the details, but to me, it just felt gross. I just was like, why are you doing that? And also, like, we don't know that that's the guy. Just. I mean, I know it. That the.

[EM Schultz]

The con.

[Christine Schiefer]

The coincidences are crazy, but, like, due process. Well, that's out the window, I guess, but you know what I mean. Yeah, I know. Oops. We're gonna get, like, banned, just like Calvin and Hobbes or whatever the else they're banning from the Library of Congress. Anyway, so it just was, like, a little of. And then the fact that she's in the documentary, and then she testified. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, you don't know these people. It just felt so, like, invasive, and it's.

[EM Schultz]

It's not something you can, like, like, mess around with, and then you step away. Like, it's like. Like, once you dip your toe in, you're involved.

[Christine Schiefer]

Totally. And she's, like, FaceTiming this guy in prison, and, like, all the calls are being recorded, and, you know, it's like, kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, it just felt to me a little. A little far. Especially when it comes to, like, trying to prank or not prank, but I guess, like, trying to lure the cat. It just was like, what are you doing? You know, like, no, no, you're muddying the waters here. Like, this is getting.

[EM Schultz]

Did that happen with a lot of people, or is she, like, a specific. She stand out?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, she was, like, the one who got, like, really into it and videoed it and was. She's like, yeah, people said I was doing, like, naked dances and stuff. And I'm like. And she's like, I wasn't doing that. And, like, I looked at the footage. I'm like, no, you weren't. But you were also, like, clearly, like, half nude and, like, trying to, you know, like. I'm not saying, you know, she did anything, like, absolutely outrageous, but the whole Situation just felt like kind of out of touch to me. Sure. You know, so, okay, back to this. That's what's happening when Anthony Shots gets mentioned. That's like how big on the Internet this is becoming this, you know, big story or it has been a big story, but now Anthony Shots is in the picture. And everyone says, well, we know what this means. Even though the police never actually said it. And so on October 28, 2022, which is about a year after the police requested information on Anthony Schott Shots, the account authorities announce a press conference scheduled for a couple days later, October 31st. So that day, two news teams reported that a man was arrested in connection to the Delphi murders. Both sources access jail records to identify him as a man named Richard Allen, aged 50. And people were so confused used, they're thinking this press conference is about Keegan Klein finally being connected as Anthony Shots to these crimes. And then all of a sudden there is a name that nobody has ever heard of. And this has become a huge community that follows this case. And they're very invested. They want answers, rightfully so. And all of a sudden they hear this name, Richard Allen and they're all going, who? Like this is not even, can I guess a person? Absolutely, absolutely.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. Was he either an accomplice to this King guy who like came forward, like he, like, like, did he, regardless of, did he come forward on his own volition because he, like because something happened or was he, I don't know. In my mind, I feel like they were accomplices. How would he have gotten found out though? I don't know. I don't know.

[Christine Schiefer]

I, I, this is so interesting. You're like on, you're asking the right question. You are, you're asking the exact right question questions.

[EM Schultz]

Because what my first thought is this, but I, this is my, I feel like, okay, the guy who was snapping them, who is pretending to be. What's his name? Anthony. Yeah, I feel like he, as Anthony, he said something like, let's all go meet on the bridge. And so they thought they were going on like this, like, like her and her friend were gonna go meet this cute boy. Then I feel like all of a sudden this grown ass man was there and he was like, oh, I'm his dad. Anthony's down the hill. And then let me, let me follow me and I'll go show you him. And then this Richard guy was there instead. And together they, yeah, that's my current thought.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, I mean, I don't listen, I find that to be A very intriguing and interesting theory.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. Okay. We'll find out, I suppose.

[Christine Schiefer]

Or will we? Okay, let's move on.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

So I love that. See, this is. I love to hear your like perspective because I feel like after watching all the document, it's like at a certain point I've heard the narrative enough that I'm like, okay, I know I kind of know where people's minds are at, but so I like to hear you hearing it for the first time, like what your thought process is. Because I think you're asking the exact right questions. And that is pretty much what is being sort of implied. Right. Like why are they asking for this guy? They confirmed they were speaking within months of their murders and then all of a sudden they're killed and now this random ass guy shows up. Exactly. That's. Yes, thank you for even just bringing that up because I think that is something I didn't even put together until now. That of course people were starting to think like, well, now there's two guys involved, right. So. So everyone gets kind of this like whiplash, right? Because they're saying, okay, there's a press release. Everyone's prepared for the press release. They're thinking they're going to finally announce that like Keegan Klein is involved. And then all of a sudden they say, they don't say anything yet. But the news reports that this other completely unrelated man, seemingly 50 year old Richard Allen, has been arrested in relation to the Delphi murders. And this is the first person that's actually, actually, I mean, this is the first person they've arrested. So. And so the name coming out of nowhere is like what? You know.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

So Keegan Klein would eventually. This is Anthony underscore shots. Would eventually plead guilty to over 25 felony counts related to child exploitation, child sexual abuse material. Yeah. Identity deception and obstruction of justice and be sentenced to 40 years in prison. He. It was sad. Just watch. I mean it's. Of course it's sad and it's sinister and it's dark as fuck. But like to watch either people who knew him or even those clips that that woman was, was sharing asking like, why did you do it? And he's like, I guess I was just lonely. And obviously. I know, it's so sick. And it's like, why are we. Whatever. Okay, so this guy is eventually put away for good reason. He pled guilty to over 25 felony counts. Means ick. And he was sentenced to 40 years in prison. But he was never ever declared an official suspect in the killing of Libyan Abby, Richard Allen.

[EM Schultz]

Like, was there a reason for that or.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, they just couldn't. They couldn't connect him to anything at the scene. It was basically also they read through the messages. There was nothing they could find that said, like, let's meet up, let's go. You know what I mean? Like, they read through the messages. There was nothing thing indicating a meetup or that he even suggested it, like, okay, I don't know. But he lived in Indiana. I'm just. I don't know. And also, I. I mean, as far as I know, this guy never actually met up with anyone, but maybe that was the only time, you know, I don't know. He was never declared an official suspect. So I want to be very clear. He is not. Not related to the case. Richard Allen, however, was suddenly, like, transplanted into the case, and he was completely unheard of. Total curveball. His. His track record, like, his. He was basically got a ticket for not wearing a seat belt, but, like, nothing. Like, no criminal record. You know, it was just like, maybe speeding, that kind of thing. Thing. And so people were totally taken aback. They had no idea who this was. But Libby's grandmother said, wait a minute. I know that guy.

[EM Schultz]

I don't like that. Was it like a church potluck thing?

[Christine Schiefer]

Very, very good guess. He worked at the CVS where she shopped.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, that's extra creepy for some reason.

[Christine Schiefer]

Gross.

[EM Schultz]

Well, it feels more removed. It's like at a. At somewhere where. Like a church thing where you're seeing each other all the time. I could see someone starting to developing a. Yeah, but a cbs. I know, random.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, yeah, so Becky. But let's. Let's get into the details because Becky said that he not only developed and printed photos for her on one occasion, but they were photos from Libby's funeral.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, yuck. So he, like, got to have, like, an extra little.

[Christine Schiefer]

Is that not like.

[EM Schultz]

So, like, he got to have that extra excitement of, like, oh, I get to now see the pictures of something I caused.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, I don't even know if it was intentional, but the fact that he was the one that she saw, like, handing the. Like, clearly that was a choice. If. If that is the suspect, if that is the person who. Who did this.

[EM Schultz]

So.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God. This is why this. This part two had to. Had to be added because it's, like, so chilling. Well, chilling, but also, like, confusing. It's like, wait, we. We were sure it was the online sex predator, and now it's like, the.

[EM Schultz]

Guy that's the chilling part. Is that it's not the obvious.

[Christine Schiefer]

Exactly, exactly. It feels like there were so many more curveballs than expected. Yeah, that's true. And it's like the fact that there are many people who could be taking this. These advantage of these vulnerable girls. Like. Oh, the fact that there is.

[EM Schultz]

It's also a reminder to all of us that like. Like, from the most obvious person to the least obvious person obvious, it could be anyone.

[Christine Schiefer]

And it's like, I don't want to strike paranoia, but like, damn. At a certain point, it's like, Jesus Christ. So, okay, it turns out now I was interested in what you said as well, because fun fact, Richard actually had come forward right after the murders, and he said he had spoken with a conversation or a conservation officer. Imagine a conversation officer, what is wrong with me?

[EM Schultz]

We need one. Please lock me up.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, we need up for yapping. You know what I mean? No, the conservation officer, apparently he had come forward after the murders, shortly after the murders, and told a conservation officer with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources that he was on the trail that day, but he just. He had nothing to do with it.

[EM Schultz]

What are the odds.

[Christine Schiefer]

Isn't that goofy?

[EM Schultz]

What are the odds that two very creepy people would be in the woods and nobody else doing two completely different things? That's very odd. And somehow we're now both involved in the same case.

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, the other guy was not spotted in the woods, though.

[EM Schultz]

Bridgeman.

[Christine Schiefer]

Bridge guy.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, oh, but Richard wasn't spotted in the woods. But Richard. Did he just say. Oh, well, no, Richard.

[Christine Schiefer]

Richard was in the woods. The, the. The. The social media guy was not ever brought into the picture as far as being on the scene. He was not connected at all to the murder, which is why they kind of had to move on from him.

[EM Schultz]

Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like, because.

[EM Schultz]

Sorry, I got. I got ahead of myself.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, no. But, but so it is confusing again because there are. There's bridge guy on the video. There's first old guy. Old bridge guy guy. Yeah, sketch. And then young bridge guy, sketch. Then there's child predator Anthony Shots, who's actually Keegan Klein, who's also Emily Ann. And now here comes this random ass dude from CVS who also days after the murders, just happened to admit he was on the trail and he had nothing to do with it, but he wanted to. He wanted to do his civic duty and, you know, let them know he was there, but he had nothing to do with it. Like, mind, you know, and so. Oh, my God. He was not considered even a person of interest. Like, they basically somehow Just heard the him say, I was on the trail. And they were like, got it. You know, and moved on. So, years after the murder, investigators are now searching for any information on bridge guy, as well as a man seen in the area that day by multiple witnesses. And they believed that bridge guy and the guy being seen by these witnesses were the same person. So a volunteer for the police department was sorting through documents when she came across A file from 2017 on Richard Allen. Now, this is where we find a fun little admin mistake that is just infuriating because you're like, I forget what case it was. Maybe it was Ted Bundy or. Or Jeffrey Dahmer. Maybe Jeffrey Dahmer. Where, like, one admin error ended up like, oh, no, no, I'm sorry. I think it was a night stalker. They. They, like, wrote down the wrong. Okay, now I'm just putting every case out there, but there was a case where they, like, wrote either the wrong type of truck or, like, the wrong color, and it completely messed up, you know, catching the guy when they could have. So stuff like that happens. Right? But. So she comes across the. This folder, this file, and it's on Richard Allen, but it was filed under the incorrect last name because Richard Allen lived on Whiteman Drive in deli, and so they called him Richard Whiteman by mistake.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, my God.

[Christine Schiefer]

I know it makes you want to scream. His file was marked with a green dot, which indicated that he had been cleared after the first and only contact with him in 2017. And this volunteer, Kathy Shank, she had been a volunteer for multiple years as a clean clerk for this investigation, and she had actually begun as a receptionist before taking on more responsibilities like recording tips in a separate database. So seeing that Richard was on the trail that day, even though his file was marked green and that his statement had never been followed up on, the volunteer passed it on to investigators and said, like, maybe this deserves a second look. So investigators did follow up with Richard on his presence on the trail that day. And whatever happened, we don't know the details, but it led to his arrest. Arrest in relation to the murders. Okay, so October 31st, the Indiana State Police announced the arrest and that Richard Allen was being charged for the murders of Libby and Abby. But they did not make the probable cause affidavit public, so nobody knew why. It's like they're playing some secret game. It's so. It's like, no wonder the public is, like, chomping at the bit. They're, like, trying to get anything, and.

[EM Schultz]

It feels like they're almost like edging the story along where it's like, yes, yes, here's one little tidbit. And also a week.

[Christine Schiefer]

And then, of course, it spins everybody out on. On the news, and then it like, dies down again, you know. And so this keeps happening, and they essentially arrest the guy. And they don't make public why. But Richard began to seek private attorneys to represent him at trial. And as he starts making these preparations, the public, of course, turns on him because he's been arrested for this. And the case was so notorious that a judge ordered he be put into protective custody. And then the judge, that same judge, removed himself from the case. And when he removed himself, the order read, the judge of Carroll Circuit court has determined that the particular circumstances within the underlying case warrant recusal and dictate that a special judge be appointed in this case. The court hereby recall, recuses itself.

[EM Schultz]

So, damn.

[Christine Schiefer]

The judge was like, I'm out by. And instead, the Indiana Supreme Court appointed Judge Fran Gull to the case that same day. And apparently, Richard couldn't afford his own attorney, so he requested a court appointed defense team. And finally, the media pushed so hard that the probable cause affidavit for Richard's arrest was eventually unsealed. Guilt. And they did redact the names of the witnesses who had seen him that day on the trail. But the witnesses accounts were in there. Investigators revealed that Richard spoke to the authorities like we said in 2017 because he was on the hiking trail the afternoon that Abby and Libby were killed. He said he was walking on the trail, watching his stocks update on his phone.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. As you do. Sure. She's crypto watching stocks on my couch. Sounds miserable. In the random woods.

[Christine Schiefer]

Phone in the woods. Yeah. So he's. He's. He claims he's watching his stocks, Investment stocks on his phone in the woods. And he says he walks out into the woods to look at fish, whatever that means. Maybe he's looking for that giraffe. I don't know.

[EM Schultz]

But that water giraffe, that's a good callback, right?

[Christine Schiefer]

What a. What a good excuse. I'm looking at fish.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, my God.

[Christine Schiefer]

So according to the affidavit, he said he saw three females. Good start. I can't. I can't. Who are believed to be witnesses that were also interviewed. So basically, he's saying he saw these three females. Then there are these witnesses in the report that have been redacted. And they're presumably the same people who witnessed him as well. Those witnesses identified only as three juveniles until they later testified in court described passing a man who was dressed like the man seen in the video on Libby's phone, AKA bridge guy. But I mean, also looking back, it's like a Carhartt jacket and blue jeans. And so people say, like, it's Indiana. You know, you're right.

[EM Schultz]

Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

Dressing the same. And like, you saw the video, it's blurry.

[EM Schultz]

So it was the equivalent of like. Like wearing a. In my mind, a beanie in Paris or like a. Like a. Like a beret in Paris. It's like everyone's. Everyone's got one, you know?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, it's sort of. Yeah, it's sort of like, okay, white dude in Indiana, check.

[EM Schultz]

He really. He blends it in very well.

[Christine Schiefer]

He did. And I think that's. I mean, how else would we have gotten this far, right, with the public looking at this video and not knowing who it is? So the three witnesses say their side of the story. They say hello to him, but he said nothing back. And one of the witness says he just glared at them. And remember, there are three juvenile. They're minors in this scenario. So, like, they remember this guy.

[EM Schultz]

Sure. Her.

[Christine Schiefer]

The affidavit said that Richard was not seen on the trail by any witnesses after 2:13pm at which time investigators claim he was in the woods murdering Abby and Libby. The affidavit also described an unspent.40 caliber round discovered on the ground between the girl's bodies. So, like, remember, hello, public has not known any of this because it's been sealed, finally unsealed, and people are learning, like, oh, my God. There was a bullet found at the scene. It was unspent, but investigators said that they could match this to a gun owned by Richard. Now, this is where it gets a little into the weeds, because people argue whether this is pseudoscience or, you know, it's like the same way blood spatter gets like that kind of bad rap, because it's not always accurate or reliable. But in this case, the round was matched to the gun using a method of forensics outlined by the National Institute of Standards and Technologies or technology. So I feel like. Like it's. It's. It feels legit. Pretty legit. When a gun is fired and the bullet blasts down the barrel, it causes these ridges, right? Or counters these ridges and grooves that dig into the metal, soft metal of the bullet, and you can match the striations on the bullet to the weapon. So in that case, the bullet is being shot and it's kind of exploding forward, and you get a pretty clear Striation on the bullet.

[EM Schultz]

It.

[Christine Schiefer]

And these Microsoft microscopic striations and impressions are unique and they're able to be reproduced and therefore, sort of like fingerprints. Ballistics can identify, you know, what gun this bullet came from. Now the thing is, this bullet hadn't been shot, right? It had been unload. Unspent. It was unspent. So it had been unloaded. So the round discovered at the scene hadn't been fired and therefore it didn't travel through the barrel. And so there was this argument of, you know, are the markings unique still when it's just ejected or is that a little more gray area? You know, how specific? Like if it's one thing, if the bullet is shot out of the gun and you can clearly match it. But, you know, but they were able to find markings that they claimed did connect his gun specifically to a crime scene.

[EM Schultz]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

This kind of went back and forth. I watched an interesting, like a searcher sent me a link to a video of this guy explaining it. And the ballistics expert testified at the trial, explains her methods. And it's, it's really, I mean, it's pretty interesting. In the weeks preceding the trial, Richard's defense team blamed multiple individuals. Like they were kind of going through the rounds of like, who else they could throw shade at or point fingers at. Now this is one of the things where Sergio emailed and said, I've really got to do, I've got to do a part two on this. This is not going to be a one parter because apparently, according to the defense, the individuals who, the individuals who killed Libby and Abby were members of a cult called Odinism.

[EM Schultz]

What? Wait, is that real?

[Christine Schiefer]

They killed them as part of a ritual sacrifice? That's not real. What is not real?

[EM Schultz]

Like, is that true? Is that what happened or is that just what's being said?

[Christine Schiefer]

No, that's not what happened.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. I was like, what a plot twist.

[Christine Schiefer]

Satanist did it.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. I mean, I was gonna learn about a whole new cult that I never heard.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, you are. That is a, it is a real thing. If that's, that's why I asked what his. What is what real? Cuz I'm like, the cult is real. I. I just don't know. It's a white supremacy cult, by the way.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

So, yeah, so they were saying, oh, they murdered them as part of a ritual sacrifice is what his defense team saying. Which, like, if that's what you're coming out of the gate with, like, yeah, rough.

[EM Schultz]

I hope that's what the judge said to Them?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Ooh, you mean Fran. Judge Fran. Yeah. So here. And of course, Saoirse was really insightful here because they said, I've coincidentally done a lot of research on Norse paganism and so and its religious reconstruction and links to white supremacy, which.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, interesting.

[Christine Schiefer]

Think about Odinism like O D I N. And so, as Saoirse said, getting into that would be an entire podcast on its own. But these are strictly statements made by Richard Allen's defense team. This is not like any sort of real history, letters lesson for anybody right now. This is just what they claimed as part of his defense.

[EM Schultz]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

According to the defense team, Odinism is a Norse pagan religion that has been co opted by white supremacists with a dedicated following in the Delphi area. The defense claimed that there were sticks arranged into pagan symbols at the site of the murder and that the police even consulted with experts on paganism and occultism before shifting gears in their investigation and targeting Rich Richard. So investigators did find sticks arranged over the girl's remains, but they asserted they believed the sticks were there in an attempt to conceal the bodies.

[EM Schultz]

Sure, that makes sense to me.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Not create like a ritual. Ritually significant image. The prosecution maintained there was no reason that there would be a ritualistic motive here, that the claims were an attempt to gain media attention, something controversial enough to distract the public from the real issue and the evidence against Richard. The prosecution filed a request to deny to admit any of this alleged occult or pagan activity. And the judge ultimately agreed. And the white supremacist occult defense was not permitted at trial. So that was a wild little detour.

[EM Schultz]

It certainly. Yeah, it would have. Yes. Sideshow. Right?

[Christine Schiefer]

It's like every few. Every page. It's like a whole, Whole new narrative happening here. No wonder this became such a sensation. So Odinism didn't work. Take two. The defense later pointed back at another possible suspect, the guy who owned the land, Ron Logan. And he owned the land where Libby and Abby were killed. An inmate wrote a letter that claimed that while Ron was in prison on unrelated charges, he confessed to Abby and Libby's murder. Murders. But the alleged confession contained many details that contradicted, like, the actual nature of the killing. So, like, even if he had somehow admitted this or if the guy in prison was making it up, it didn't actually match what happened at the murder scene. So they were like, this is not our guy. They claimed that Ron temporarily moved one of the girl's bodies, removed the battery from Libby's phone, burned some of their clothes, and. And the police Were like, none of that happened. So this is bogus. You know, it's just like another red herring. And then Ron ended up passing in January of 2022. So that was sort of like, no, no further on that. As for Richard Allen, his physical and mental health declined dramatically in jail. Before the trial, his defense team claimed he was suffering abuse at Westville Correctional Facility by corrections officers who were followers of Odinism. And I can't. The defense. The defense claimed to have seen patches supporting Odinism worn by correctional officers on their uniforms. And alleged Odinist inmates were also threatening Richard. And so in a signed affidavit, the warden stated that after the defense's filing, correctional officers were no longer allowed to wear personal patches on their uniforms.

[EM Schultz]

That's what it's took.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's what it took.

[EM Schultz]

That's insane.

[Christine Schiefer]

What in the world? This is, like, bonkers town. I don't even know what's real. I'm not saying none of it's real. I'm just saying, like, every bullet gets crazier as I go through the story.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, certainly this is. I mean, you're not. You're not explaining it wrong. This is one of, I think, your harder to follow stories.

[Christine Schiefer]

I. I did. I could tell Saoirse was, like, in the thick of it because I was like. I was like. Because they said part one and went like, this is not ready for part two. Like, part two is going to be its own thing. And I was like, oh, my. I didn't realize this was such a. A doozy. But, yeah, it. It just, like, all over the place. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so this Odinism stuff is what his defense team is claiming. Like, he's being targeted unfairly and yada, yada. So he also stated, the warden, that the facility had very few inmates that practice Odinism, and these inmates had no contact with Richard Allen, so.

[EM Schultz]

So he's not even part of their little club.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, he's not even, like, a target. He's not even invited me. He's not even an enemy of their club. Like, they don't even care about him.

[EM Schultz]

So embarrassing.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like, I don't think about you, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Wow.

[Christine Schiefer]

While in prison, Richard confessed to his wife more than once by phone to killing Abby and Libby.

[EM Schultz]

Why does he want this so badly? Like. Or it was.

[Christine Schiefer]

Each time his wife told him he did not kill Abby and Libby and something seemed wrong and he seemed unwell.

[EM Schultz]

See, if like is like, this is his brain's, like, up. Like, he's got, like, is he aging quicker or something? Or.

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, ABC News reported that Richard was held in solitary confinement for 13 months. And that in my opinion, and has been proven to be a. A cruel, unusual punishment with potentially irreversible psychological consequences.

[EM Schultz]

Sure.

[Christine Schiefer]

And the fact that this happened after 13 months of solitary confinement, that he's confessing to these murders and his wife is saying, you didn't do that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's his wife saying, don't admit that on the phone. I don't know if it's her not believing it. I don't know if it's him, like, having a mental break. But essentially, he. He. His defense claims that he made these confessions under extreme mental duress. And I'm like. I mean, fair. After. Yeah, 13 months in solitary, if you're being, like, pressured into a.

[EM Schultz]

Torture. Yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Tortured. Exactly.

[EM Schultz]

Well, I was asking about, like, if his brain was. If something was going on, because I. I literally last night watched the Law and Order episode where, like, a guy who was seemingly relatively fine, all of a sudden he started, like, killing people. And it was because he, like, had, like, advanced syphilis and, like, his. Oh, like his.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like Al Capone own.

[EM Schultz]

Like, his. His brain was deteriorating and nobody knew it. So that's what I. That's what I meant by that. But. Okay, yeah, maybe it was just like being in solitary and, like, losing your mind, because after a week, it's hell on earth.

[Christine Schiefer]

And maybe he. And May. Maybe he did it and now broken down enough to admit it and just can't. Can't hold it in anymore. Who knows? You know, it's like. It's just really hard because it's like every time you feel like. Got it. It's. It's like, maybe not.

[EM Schultz]

It's whiplash.

[Christine Schiefer]

It is. And. And so, you know, they're saying he made these confessions under extreme mental duress. Monica Walla, then lead psychologist at the Indiana Department of Corrections, testified that Allen repeatedly confessed to her on different days throughout 2023. However. Okay, this is like, again, what the people. Okay, sorry. Monica Wallet, the lead psychologist. She claimed that he confessed to her multiple times. She said Alan told her he drank several beers before hiking into the woods, where he encountered Abby and Libby on the trail and that he used a gun to intimidate them into the woods. Monica said he intended to rape them, but was then startled by a white van passing by. So he made Libby and Abby walk across Deer Creek, where he cut their throats with a box cutter and then covered them with branches to conceal their. Their bodies. The prosecution presented the comment about the white van as information only the killer could know because a witness driving a white van was near the location of the murder at 2:32pm and that did match the timeline. Monica also said Allen seemed relieved after confessing to her, although he was still struggling mentally. He was placed on suicide watch, during which time he told Monica he wanted to sign his confession and that he wanted to apologize to Libby and Alan, Abby's families. So everyone's going, wow, what a. What a great source. Like, clearly she would know. You know, she's an expert here, expert witness. Well, the defense then came forward and challenged Monica's ability to be objective because it was discovered that Monica had long followed the Delphi murders case. She listened to online True Crime content about it. She spoke about it often in online forums. Forums. And it just felt like, I don't know if you can trust that. Because she also testified that she used her special access to correctional databases to find information on the case. So, like, the white van could have been something she read, you know, and then, like, getting muddied. It's getting muddied. It's like nothing is clearly defined, like, clear cut. And so even though this is, like, really compelling, then you find out, well, she's on forums and she could have known, and she. Little access, and it just starts to feel less cut and dry, you know?

[EM Schultz]

No, it's certainly. I thought part two was gonna be like, we're getting answers, and now it's too many answers.

[Christine Schiefer]

Remember when you wrote down. Remember when you were so naive?

[EM Schultz]

I deleted it.

[Christine Schiefer]

I was gonna make you read it. And then I was like, no, I.

[EM Schultz]

Don'T even remember anymore. It's too. It's certainly not the right answer I'll tell you about.

[Christine Schiefer]

Or is it who the knows? So she testified that she actually, you know, so she could have unintentionally or intentionally, probably unintentionally planted this white van idea. Like, we just don't know, you know, and it just feels like less confident now of a lead. So she ultimately closed her social media accounts when concerns were raised about how close she was following the case before Richard arrived at the place where she worked. Richard was observed during his time in jail eating paper, defecating in his cell. Well, wiping his. His. Yep. His feces around with his hands onto his face, hitting his head against the wall, refusing meals. I mean, he's not. He's very unwell. And his wife said, like, you're deteriorating. You're unwell. So it's like, it also, if he.

[EM Schultz]

Was from that area, he, like, if he was or heard of that, he was from that small town or whatever. Like, he would have heard.

[Christine Schiefer]

He worked at the cvs. Yeah.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. So he would have heard about Libby.

[Christine Schiefer]

And he printed the funeral photo. Photos.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. So. So that's.

[Christine Schiefer]

Which is why when you said, like, oh, maybe he got, like, a sick fascination, I was like, honestly, maybe not. Maybe literally just worked at the cvs. So it's like. It's hard to say, and I don't want to, like, throw sense, but, like, maybe. Maybe that is what happened. And now he's having this mental breakdown. I'm not sure.

[EM Schultz]

He just remembers them, and it just kind of gets blurted out, maybe. Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

And so it's clearly. He's clearly unwell, and he's clearly in a compromised psychological state. So any confessions feel like they hold less water now, too. But the warden and. Whoa. Sorry. A huge roll of thunder just, like, shook my whole house.

[EM Schultz]

I heard it. You did? Okay, a little bit. It was just. Sounds so jealous.

[Christine Schiefer]

Sounded like Hank's boof.

[EM Schultz]

I'm so jealous of you. I would give anything to hear thunder.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, Emma. It's, you know, it's that time of year where it's like those, like, hot thunderstorms, heat storms that we have, like. Like the. The. We have a sky. What are they called?

[EM Schultz]

Skylight.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. What's wrong with me? Is that what it's called up in the ceiling? The window.

[EM Schultz]

The window in the ceiling is a skylight.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We have a sky. And I always forget we have it because it's way. Just like, one singular skylight. And then, like, it'll start pouring rain, and I'm like, what is that sound? And then I like. I'm like, oh, right, it's the skylight. But it is kind of cool because it's like, oh, you hear it on the roof. Anyway. Okay, you'll probably hear that in a moment. But anyway, back to this. So the warden at the facility and multiple corrections officers. We're talking about him being psychologically unwell. They claim this is an act, for the most part. They claim that in one of Richard's confessions, he asked, how do I prove I'm insane? And they think he's putting on a show, defecated, doing this whole hitting his head against the wall to claim insanity. This is what. This is what the warden and the prison facility is saying and the corrections officer are saying. So it's. He said. He said much of Richard's Confessions and behavior were said to have begun after he received the so called discovery documents, which would include all the information they had against him and could use against him in trial. The implication being that maybe he realized, like, how much evidence they had against him and panicked.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah. Yeah, I don't blame him.

[Christine Schiefer]

Pled insanity. Right. So before trial, the defense and prosecution both agreed it would be nearly impossible to find impartial jurors in Carroll County. Like you said, it's a small town. Everyone has been following this very closely. So what they did was they. They pulled jurors from a different county, but. But held the trial there. So they. They basically like, bust them in from somewhere else.

[EM Schultz]

Okay, got it.

[Christine Schiefer]

The jury heard 17 days of testimony in what I know include a lot, including what was considered the strongest evidence in the case, which was the murder timeline, which involved the witness testimony of the Richard's presence on the trail, Richard saying he had seen this white van, as well as the unspent round that matched Richard's gun. And so on November 18, 2024, after 19 hours of deliberation, the jury declared Richard guilty on four counts of murder. And a month later, he was sentenced to 130 years in prison. And he immediately appealed. So during the sentencing, the judge accused Richard of rolling his eyes at her. Her. After hearing the witness impact statements from Libby and Abby's family.

[EM Schultz]

Not a good look, bud.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, she actually reprimanded him repeatedly for rolling his eyes at her throughout the trial. And this was really striking for listeners because there were no cameras permitted, so people couldn't see him, but they could hear this. This kind of like.

[EM Schultz]

Like a scoff, like a.

[Christine Schiefer]

No, they couldn't hear anything from him. So her saying, stop rolling your eyes at me. Me was basically the only evidence people had. Like, oh. Like they wouldn't have known this guy was having this kind of. Sure attitude problem or whatever. But she kept saying, don't roll your eyes at me. And people were like, oh, my God. This is like hearing the family speak and rolling his eyes. And so, you know, it was helpful that people were able to know that, I suppose. But Abby and Livy's families both spoke at the trial. Abby's grandfather, Eric Erskine, said that losing Abby was like losing a limb that will never grow go back. And that the information he learned during the trial confirmed his worst nightmares about what Abby and Libby suffered. Yeah, he said, addressing Richard, you will never take away our memories and their legacy. In a written victim impact statement, Libby's mother, Carrie, said that her younger daughters were Robbed of their big sister. And she said she was so proud of Libby, her daughter, for recording her video that day to expose her murderer in a documentary. Kelsey, Libby's sister, said Libby was heroic for thinking fast and discreetly recording Richard. She was killed. And of course, that Abby was heroic too, especially because the two of them stuck together instead of, you know, leaving, running away, leaving one alone, they. They stuck together. And so their family said they were proud of them for that. Now, as recently as March of this year, so we're talking three months ago, Richard's team has made motions and appeals attempting to have Richard's convictions overturned based on challenges to the prosecution's case at trial, including the timeline. So that should be interesting.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

The appeals are unsuccessful so far. And Grandpa Mike made a statement that he respects these filings as Richard's judicial right, but he wishes Richard would just accept responsibility for the killings and quit appealing, you know?

[EM Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

The girls families have, of course, also been very distressed by a lot of the online kind of commentary and sleuthing and throwing around random names and theories that have muddied the water and kind of put them in the spotlight in the worst way. For example, remember how they released, like, three seconds of Bridge Guy, and it was him saying, down the hill.

[EM Schultz]

Mm.

[Christine Schiefer]

So the full video is 43 seconds. And it was not meant to be made public, but it was shown to the jury at trial, and it could got leaked, I guess, and somebody leaked it, and it's now publicly available. I did watch it before I realized this was something that had been leaked accidentally. It was in a documentary, but I gotta tell you, it's not something you want to watch. It's. It's not any. They didn't release anything very gruesome or anything like that. That. But to hear kind of the last words of a little girl as she says to her friend, is he still following us? And you hear one of them say, a gun. Like, he has a gun.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, no.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's horrific. You know, they're 13 and 14, respectively, and they're trapped because this guy's following them along the bridge, knowing there's no exit point. You have to go back across the bridge to get out.

[EM Schultz]

And so just wandering deeper into the woods to get away from him. And.

[Christine Schiefer]

And Livy says to Ab, it's a dead end, pretty much. So Livy says to Abby, is he still there or is he still finds? She says, yeah. And then essentially you hear, guys, down he goes. Guys, down the hill.

[EM Schultz]

That's why he said, down the hill.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. And so, you know, it became the name of the documentary. It became like a. A really instrumental part, because the first. First down the Hill was the only part that was initially released. Then they released Guys down the Hill. And then eventually this whole video got leaked, which was really hard for the families to be, like, privy to the public witnessing their child's last. I mean, it's like, you know, and.

[EM Schultz]

Not only, like, just like, last words. You don't even know it. It's like to hear them scared, like, to know that your kid was scared. Oh, my God.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like, you don't want to hear that again, right? I mean, I don't think. I mean, I wouldn't know. It's not anonymous. My place to even say, but just, you know, really, really hard. It was. It was meant to be concealed. So, you know, I. It's. But it's been viewed probably hundreds of thousands of times by now, you know, so it's like once it's on the Internet. So the deli community continues to stand beside Abby's and Libby's families from the time they first went on those huge volunteer searches to keeping their legacies alive today day. You know, their friends and family try to remember the good times. For example, there's this plan to buy bleachers or a scoreboard for the girls softball team. And then this grew into this huge project that was supported by state leaders and the NBA All Star Game. Hosts offered $50,000 in a form of a grant to do, like, a memorial on their behalf, which was really great. And the state even donated 20 acres of land. And so on October 9, 2021, the Abby and Libby Memorial park opened with a public dedication event. Crowds gathered to enjoy the park, which included a playground and amphitheater. And I just love that they have all of that. They have a softball diamond because they both played softball. They have the amphitheater because they love to, like, perform and play music, you know, and so they. They have events that there. Abby's grandfather had apparently driven all the way from Michigan to take Abby shopping for equipment when she first signed up to play, because he was so excited that she was playing softball.

[EM Schultz]

That's so sad.

[Christine Schiefer]

I know. And. And so the fact that the two of them are remembered in this way is really powerful, especially because it was one of their bonding hobbies. Like, it bonded them together, apparently. They were literally practicing softball in the yard the day together, the day before they died. And so just to have this kind of. As a. As a positive thing now moving forward, like a park and. And A special, safe place is. Is pretty special. Basically, everyone who uses the park and enjoys the facilities is kind of, you know, bringing their legacy forward, connecting with the community that still remembers them, and that is what we know. And it just feels like so. So mind boggling. Like, I feel like I'm. My head is spinning and I just dumped all that on you. And I'm sorry I talked so fast, but damn, I was like, I gotta get through, like, 12 pages here.

[EM Schultz]

No, no, that. Well, well done.

[Christine Schiefer]

And I also felt bad because every time you were like, oh, I see. I'm like, no, you don't.

[EM Schultz]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Christine Schiefer]

And it's not because of you. It's because I also didn't see it. No, I didn't say, well, we didn't know. Oh, my God.

[EM Schultz]

Well, and now. Now that you've gotten. That's why we drink out of the way for the. For the week. Now you can focus on Bishu Sandy and maybe. Maybe less horrible things for a second.

[Christine Schiefer]

Ooh, that's fun. Yeah. Wow. What a nice. Thank you. You sound like my therapist. How about we look in this direction and. Yeah, thank you. I needed to hear that because now I'm thinking yappy hour. What do we do in yappy hour?

[EM Schultz]

I don't know, man. I don't know.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm looking around. Maybe we do a show and tell today.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, we love show and tell. Okay, let's do that.

[Christine Schiefer]

Let's do that. All right.

[EM Schultz]

Okay. And that's why we drink. Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need a trade in.

[EM Schultz]

When you switch to T Mobile. We'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your. Your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade in.

[Christine Schiefer]

Not right now.

[EM Schultz]

@ T Mobile.

[Christine Schiefer]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[EM Schultz]

That's okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[EM Schultz]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Christine Schiefer]

Let me check this pocket.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[EM Schultz]

It's our best iPhone offer ever.

[Christine Schiefer]

Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with.

[EM Schultz]

Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed.

[Christine Schiefer]

We'll even pay off your phone up.

[EM Schultz]

To 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Christine Schiefer]

New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualifying boarded for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge.

[EM Schultz]

Payout via virtual prepaid card.

[Christine Schiefer]

Allow 15 days credits and balance due if you pay off earlier.

[EM Schultz]

Cancel See T mobile.com hi Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in.

[EM Schultz]

When you switch to T mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade in.

[Christine Schiefer]

Not right now.

[EM Schultz]

@ T Mobile.

[Christine Schiefer]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[EM Schultz]

That's okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[EM Schultz]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Christine Schiefer]

Let me check this pocket.

[EM Schultz]

Oh, mint. Really, I'm fine.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[EM Schultz]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile.

[Christine Schiefer]

Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with.

[EM Schultz]

Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Christine Schiefer]

New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualifying forwarded for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge.

[EM Schultz]

Pay off via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and balance due.

[Christine Schiefer]

If you pay off early or cancel.

[EM Schultz]

See T mobile dot com.