E439 Office Ghosts and Haunted Desk Drinks

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink – Episode E439: Office Ghosts and Haunted Desk Drinks

Release Date: July 6, 2025

Hosts: Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz

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Introduction

In Episode 439 of And That's Why We Drink, titled "Office Ghosts and Haunted Desk Drinks," hosts Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz delve into their chilling experiences with the paranormal intertwined with true crime narratives. This episode blends personal anecdotes with urban legends, offering listeners a mix of suspense, humor, and heartfelt discussions.

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Haunted Office: Ghostly Encounters

Christine and Em kick off the episode by recounting unsettling occurrences in their office space. They describe mysterious open windows and unexplained noises that suggest a lingering presence.

• Christine (05:01): "Blaze always said, oh, it's just because it's, like, darker in there, and it's like, yeah, I guess. But there's something about something's weird in there."

Em shares a particularly eerie moment when he witnessed an unexplained phenomenon involving their dogs.

• Em (07:45): "I saw him like, staring and then he goes like this."

Their discussion highlights the fine line between attributing these events to pets and considering a supernatural explanation.

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Urban Legend Spotlight: Hugging Molly

The centerpiece of the episode is an in-depth exploration of the urban legend known as Hugging Molly, a seven-foot-tall ghostly woman who roams the streets at night seeking out children who haven't returned home.

Description of Hugging Molly:

• Em (30:20): "Hugging Molly is a cautionary tale to kids. We love a cautionary tale."

Christine attempts to channel the urban legend but humorously misses the mark before Em reveals the correct name.

• Em (29:37): "Her name is Hugging Molly."

Origin and Behavior:

Hugging Molly is said to:

• Be as tall as a cotton bale and as broad as a door.
• Wear a long, flowing black dress and a wide-brimmed hat.
• Approach children at night, offering hugs that may lead to harassing screams or worse.

Local Impact and Copycat Incidents:

The legend has spurred real-life copycat behaviors, including individuals dressing up as Hugging Molly to scare others, leading to increased community fear and proactive measures.

• Em (43:04): "Some men have volunteered to shoot you on site."

Cultural Significance:

Hugging Molly serves as a local myth similar to other regional folklore, embodying societal fears and serving as a cautionary tale about safety and boundaries.

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Personal Stories: Pets and Paranormal Activity

Christine and Em intertwine their ghostly tales with personal stories about their pets, particularly their dogs, Moonshine and Juniper, whose peculiar behaviors often coincide with the supernatural events they discuss.

• Christine (64:39): "Moonshine opens the door and jumps into the bathroom. I'm like, are you out of your mind?"

Em shares frustrations about his dog Hank's destructive behavior when left alone, blending humor with genuine concern.

• Em (15:45): "I'm hiding them, so I don't know how he's getting them."

These stories highlight the emotional toll of balancing pet care with unexplained phenomena, adding depth to their narratives.

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Emotional Struggles: Stress and Coping Mechanisms

The hosts candidly discuss their personal lives, touching on themes of stress, relationship dynamics, and coping through drinking. Christine shares her use of "Angry Orchard" as a form of solace amid chaos.

• Christine (03:02): "nothing's wrong and everything's great... I've got this angry orchard because it's our new favorite drink."

Em opens up about the challenges of balancing travel, pet care, and parental responsibilities, revealing vulnerabilities that resonate with listeners.

• Em (14:16): "The reason I drink is because it's the longest that either of us will be away from Hank."

Their honest conversations provide a relatable backdrop to the supernatural elements, grounding the episode in real-life struggles.

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Conclusion and Insights

Throughout the episode, Christine and Em weave together ghost stories, urban legends, and personal anecdotes, offering a multifaceted look at fear, coping mechanisms, and the search for understanding in the face of the unknown. Their blend of humor, empathy, and intrigue keeps listeners engaged, providing both entertainment and a sense of camaraderie.

Notable Quotes:

• Em (33:57): "So she said to walk the streets at night. Perfect. Looking for children who haven't come home yet."

• Christine (118:46): "What kind of mother tells a five-year-old girl that her father killed her birth mom?"

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Final Thoughts

Episode E439 of And That's Why We Drink masterfully combines the eerie allure of ghost stories with the raw honesty of personal experiences. Christine and Em's dynamic interplay ensures that listeners are both entertained and emotionally invested, making it a standout episode for fans of true crime and the paranormal alike.

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For those interested in exploring these spine-tingling tales and personal journeys, tune into Episode E439 of "And That's Why We Drink" available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

[Em]

We talk about it every time, folks. We love Eva. We love that we were able to find her so quickly. We were desperately. We were drowning when we needed somebody to come in, help us out. At the time, it was just emails and social media and it very quickly turned into like, we need you to go ghost hunting in the basement. Do you mind, man? No one like Eva. And we wouldn't have found her if it weren't for ZipRecruiter. Typically you don't associate speed with quality, but in her case, we were able to find her in like 30 seconds. It's crazy. ZipRecruiter was able to do that for us. Like I said, usually speed and quality don't mix. But there is an exception to that unwritten rule. If you're hiring, you can find candidates fast who are also extremely qualified for your job. Just use ZipRecruiter. And right now you can use ZipRecruiter for [e-mail] Drink. It is so easy to use. It is so helpful. I mean, really, we have. I mean, we have ZipRecruiter to thank for everything that's happened so far. Anything Eva has touched, that's ZipRecruiter's responsibility, or was their responsibility for sure. It's also something that I'm incredibly grateful for. So thank you. ZipRecruiter experience hiring speed and quality. With ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. We were one of those four out of five. And if you go to ZipRecruiter.com drink right now, you can try it for free again, that's ziprecruiter.com drink ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire.

[Christine]

Buying a car in Carvana was so easy. I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, Finance got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed. Done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed. Right? That's what I said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply. Foreign. Hello, everyone. Welcome to and that's why we drink. I figure we could let you in on the conversation if you have any.

[Em]

Suggestions for our future Setup for how.

[Christine]

To align our heads, how to make them more size equitable, size wise.

[Em]

I'm actually just trying to give you a moment to feel like you have the smaller head between the two of us. So I'm just.

[Christine]

Thank you. My daughter has a 99th percentile still to this day, from the day she was born and onward. So Noggin, I need all the. I need all the confidence I can get.

[Em]

This is. This is. This is what I offer you. I will let the crowd think that.

[Christine]

My head is that mine's dainty and delicate.

[Em]

You're so frail, so meek. Welcome to that's why I Drink. Where we tell you reasons why we drink and then reasons why everyone should drink.

[Christine]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Why don't we ever start? What is that? Episode 439. That's like the best summation of our show ever.

[Em]

Oh, hey, great. I'm glad we got there. So finally, reasons why we drink. Our personal life. Christine, do you have anything or is life just perfect over there?

[Christine]

Well, as usual, nothing's wrong and everything's great. Someone made the fair comment online that I. I made an unfair statement that I hadn't been this stressed since our tour, our live. Since prepping for a live tour. That was not true in the sense of I'm not more stressed about our tour than I was about the state of the world. I was not trying to make that comparison. I just want to clear because people, somebody commented, be for real. And I was like, I'm sorry. I really wasn't trying to imply that. My only implication is my body's once again going into, like, full on chaos mode. Insanity chaos. Because of what was then our tour. What is now even worse. Much so much worse. The world. So I've got this angry orchard because it's our new favorite drink. We got to record some fun, like, stuff with them. And I forgot how much I love this shit. And so I've just got like this angry orchard and I'm going to open it with my unicorn bottle opener that I bought with the first ever sponsor money we got from ModCloth.

[Em]

Whoa.

[Christine]

Back in the day. And I remember being like, I need this for my desk, this unicorn bottle opener. And I'm still using it. And I drink because the ghost is back.

[Em]

Tell me everything.

[Christine]

Obviously I drink because of the world, but I don't want to, you know, go there. We're all drinking for that, right? Like, so I did. This is more of just like now a micro situation versus a macro. But I was.

[Em]

Let's can We. Can we. Where were we?

[Christine]

Leave off a recap. Okay, so the one we left off. Previously on Blaze's window opened, and today I interrogated him again, because he brought it up again. It opened twice. And I asked him many questions about it because I was like, I need to know the details. He said, it's the. It's the window in his bathroom in the back office, the one that we moved in and said, nope, that's a bad room.

[Em]

Since day one.

[Christine]

Since.

[Em]

They've been saying that since day one.

[Christine]

That's your office, please.

[Em]

You really did say that.

[Christine]

I did.

[Em]

Now, that's where they store, like, gym equipment, basically. But, like. Like, yeah, can confirm I've been in that room. There is something off about it.

[Christine]

It just feels weird. And it's like, sure, it's. Blaze always said, oh, it's just because it's, like, darker in there, and it's like, yeah, I guess. But there's something about something's weird in there. And. And it also has so many crawl spaces, like, in there in the little closets. And I went in there recently to just look around. It wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. And I wore those knee pads I bought you ages ago that were just casually in my office. And I was like, why did I buy knee pads? And then I remembered that on a past episode, you had said, if you buy me knee pads, I'll climb into your. The crawl space.

[Em]

And I did.

[Christine]

And then now and then, like, two years later, I was like, why do I have adult men's knee?

[Em]

Like, I still stand by that. By the way, I have them.

[Christine]

They work great.

[Em]

Never occurred to. I've totally forgot why you got me knee pads.

[Christine]

I did, too.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

I got you a lot of things. I feel like my house is just full of random items I've meant to send you or, like, purchase on your behalf, but. So Blaze said that window opens, and then Leona wanted to go up there and look for the ghost. So we kind of jokingly. I filmed it. I haven't posted it yet, but we walked up there, and she was like, ghost, where are you? And then she said, I think his name's Boo Boo. And I was like, oh, here we go.

[Em]

Please.

[Christine]

So that was the last update. Then there was a moment where I was doing laundry, and I swear to God, I don't know if I've talked about this yet. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw this woman's dress, and I would. Oh, a lady. And then I went, wait, wait, Wait, girl. You know when your brain goes like, oh, I see something, hang on and it like catches you. And then all of a sudden it was like nobody was there. So I was like, maybe I'm imagining things. I mean I was doing laundry, it was like two in the morning.

[Em]

Yeah. Maybe you saw like your own sheet by your right.

[Christine]

Like I'm like, maybe. So I just kind of, kind of brushed that aside and. But, but I got really like that was one where I was like every hair was standing up.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

You know, and I had to pause my music. Yeah, it really, really like got me for some reason. And then today, this morning I was on a zoom call with my therapist and. Well, no, sorry. Last night Juniper's laying down and I just see him kind of look up and he's looking out the. The doorway of course, like where that room is. And he kind of like his hackles start to go up a little and usually that means like moonshine's on the way. And I'm like, oh God. Because moonshine is going to come like attack him and whatever. But then he, I see him like staring and then he goes like this.

[Em]

Oh fuck.

[Christine]

And he looks like up like many feet and I'm like, oh. And then he looks down and up and I'm like he's looking at something. So I'm thinking maybe it's a fly like buzzing around and then he follows it and you know when you see like pets eyes move and so then Geo looks up and they both follow something and I'm like it has to be a fly. And please around and there is not a single bug. They watch this thing like at the exact same height. It's not like moving around, it's like the same height. They watch it all the way go to the fireplace. They stared at it for a while and then both of them seem to like lose the trance and just go back to sleep. And I was like, who's here? And it was that same spot where I did that laundry too. So I don't know, maybe there's something like in that and that one psychic medium I talked to, moonlight medium said that somebody walks back and forth up here. So I'm like, maybe it's just like.

[Em]

I'm telling you, that thing that spun around when I was up there.

[Christine]

Oh yeah. To this day the windows are opening. It's just like what is going on up here?

[Em]

To this day that was one of the freakiest.

[Christine]

Oh, and last night I forgot I was, I was putting stuff away. Like little things keep happening That I forget to write down. And then. But I was in the middle room where years ago when I think Leona was an infant, like really tiny.

[Em]

And.

[Christine]

And I was like, my. I was doing some work on my laptop and I just heard daddy and Geo, like jumped up and that nobody was home. That room, which I know there's something going on there, that room, I was just like putting stuff down and all of a sudden the lights just turned off. And I was like, what the. And I like turned around and the light switch was just off. And I was like, the lights shut the hell up. I'd been moving stuff in there. And I'm like, who? How? Like there it was just so mind. Because I'm like, I walked in, set down this basket, and all of a sudden the lights went off. And it took me a minute to go, how? Like, there's one light switch, it's right there. And then I had to go back and click it back on. And I was like. And it was night time. So when the lights went off, I was like in the dark and I was like, what just happened, Christine? So I don't know if it's a prankster or a demon. It's not a demon. I think I would know if it were a demon. I think I would have worse vibes in the house if it were like really bad.

[Em]

Something. I wouldn't say it's unfriendly, but something, let's say neutral is in Blaze's office.

[Christine]

Yeah, like chaotic neutral, you know, like kind of like causing some, some problems, but not necessarily intentionally.

[Em]

It feels always a little on edge for some reason.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Everything else in the house seems. I think you're right. Like it's not dark, but I don't like that it's getting comfortable.

[Christine]

That's a good point. And I did ask Blaze today outright, I said, what do you think it was with the window specifically? And he said, I don't know. And I said, well, what do you think? And like, what do you think? And he said it was. I think it was either somehow the cats figured out how to open a really heavy window, which, let's be clear, they did not. And he says, or it was an entity. An entity.

[Em]

I'm sorry. When the non believer says, or it.

[Christine]

Was an entity, I'm like, we're out. We're. We're out. This is too far now. I'm. I'm no longer on board, but yeah, we haven't had any more Leona sightings. So I, I don't know if that Was just, like, a one and done, you know?

[Em]

But that's disgusting.

[Christine]

Anyway, I have my angry orchard here because I need it. And honestly, any spirits here, you are more than welcome to partake, if you're interested.

[Em]

That would be crazy if. Actually, you just heard slurping.

[Christine]

If my angry orchard disappeared, I'm gonna get really pissed off.

[Em]

I. Wow. I don't.

[Christine]

Why do you drink? I'm sorry.

[Em]

I'm like, I don't know anymore.

[Christine]

Blabbing away over here.

[Em]

You win. Why do I drink?

[Christine]

Yes.

[Em]

Well, sidebar question. At least I got Hank a new little dog tag. Did you see it online?

[Christine]

Oh, no, I didn't.

[Em]

It looks like a Ouija planchette, and it says summon my owner on it, which I think is precious. Two different people have come up to me, though, and been like, are you sure that's not, like, inviting darkness?

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

I was like, is that Christianity speaking, or should I actually be worried? Like, I don't.

[Christine]

Wait, Two people in public came up to you and said that?

[Em]

Two different people. One person was at the dog park and one person.

[Christine]

But not on social media.

[Em]

No, no, no. But.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. What people are just saying now that they're full of it.

[Em]

Okay, I was getting paranoid. I was like, the fact that two people said it in the same week.

[Christine]

You're something in the shape of a. I mean, it's like, I have Ouija board earring, like, planchette earrings. I'm not like.

[Em]

I know.

[Christine]

That's come to me, you know? And if I am, then that would explain. Everyone knows it. Yeah, that would explain why.

[Em]

No, I. I didn't think I was. But the fact that two different people.

[Christine]

Who, like, actually Gio and Juni have Ouija board. Somebody made them. Oh, I'm trying to remember who that was. It was ages ago. Maybe Noel. I'm trying to remember, but made like little planchette. And I still have the keychain. I have them as keychains on my keys. But I want to see the. Send me the one you have for Hank. I want to see the. Summon my owners. Is so good.

[Em]

I'll send it to you right now.

[Christine]

That's a lot clever.

[Em]

A lot of people were wondering where I got it, so let me go.

[Christine]

Was it Etsy?

[Em]

Of course. Let me go. Shout out the person.

[Christine]

Summon my owner. I can't.

[Em]

So the creator is called Naughty Engravers. Love that.

[Christine]

Naughty Engravers.

[Em]

And then here is the link so you can see what it looked like. Isn't that a cutie pie?

[Christine]

Let Me. Open it. Sorry. Khloe Kardashian just, like, broke my phone. It, like, appeared, and she's like, here's my protein popcorn. I'm like, I don't even follow you on Instagram. I don't know. And then my whole phone shut down. Okay. Oh, my gosh. It's so cute.

[Em]

I think so.

[Christine]

Summon my owner. Are you kidding me?

[Em]

And it's like, it looks like it's hand hammered into a Ouija shape.

[Christine]

Yeah. It's almost like that Metal. Like that? Yeah. Hammered metal. Wow. That is cute as hell.

[Em]

And I think you can get it in different colors, so.

[Christine]

Oh, that's cute.

[Em]

Anyway.

[Christine]

Naughty and great.

[Em]

Naughty Engravers is about to have a really long week.

[Christine]

I am loving that. For them, anyway.

[Em]

Why do I drink? Well, by the time this episode comes out, I think, yeah, she'll know that. So I'm surprising Allison on the east coast, but that requires me packing for three weeks because it's added.

[Christine]

Oh, my word.

[Em]

It's like I'm doing, like, three different trips all back to back.

[Christine]

You two are out of your minds. Why are you doing that? You're gonna kill yourself.

[Em]

Well, the reason I drink is because it's the longest that either of us will be away from Hank. But he's gonna be a big boy. Figure it out. But I'm.

[Christine]

He's gonna figure it out. Like, give him a bindle.

[Em]

He is gonna figure.

[Christine]

Figure. You're on your own now. What is that book? Runaway Bunny. Good luck.

[Em]

I'm thinking of that, like, Western.

[Christine]

You see Me in the Clouds?

[Em]

That Western song.

[Christine]

Oh, yes. Yes. Off through the Desert.

[Em]

So he's gonna figure it out. He has someone coming to stay with him for all three weeks, so hopefully he's on his best behavior. But the real reason I drink is because I've been testing how long I can leave him home alone. And he has been destructive, and it's horrible because he's not like that when I'm around. So he's only around when I. He only does it when I can't correct it. And so three days in a row, I've left for, like, two or three hours. I've come back, and something's been destroyed. And it's always something important and always special. And, like, I'm hiding them, so I don't know how he's getting them.

[Christine]

Lol. Maybe he knows that they're important to you. Maybe you should pretend to hide other things. Like, I know dog toys.

[Em]

Well, now, like, our. Like, my Pokemon cards and everything are, like, Hidden, like, things that are of, like, valuable also. I'm like, I. I don't even want to risk it.

[Christine]

I heard he chewed up my signature.

[Em]

He did. I don't know if we were allowed to talk about that, but.

[Christine]

Oh, well, it's just like, we signed books for our second book, and we have these stickers we put in, like, to sign them. And apparently I mailed a bunch to Eminem. Was. So someone got a hold of those book flames, but only a few.

[Em]

And they were.

[Christine]

But they were everywhere.

[Em]

They were. They were rubber banded together. And so when I first saw some of them ripped up, I was like, he just took a big chunk.

[Christine]

And I'll be honest, as the one who rubber banded them, they were rubber banded tentatively at best. Like, they were like, loosely sort of blah. In a. In a piece of rubber band. Like, it was not.

[Em]

Well, he. By the way, those rubber bands were gone. I think he ate them.

[Christine]

Excellent. Okay, I'll do dog Dog safe rubber bands next time.

[Em]

Anyway, he has been destructive, and it's like, come at the worst time because now someone's about to stay with him and, like, she's going to bring, like, her own stuff, and I'm going to be like, hide everything all day long. Sorry.

[Christine]

Sorry.

[Em]

I mean, if she's here, it'll be fine, but if she leaves, it's like you have to, like, it's almost as if you're packing up to leave every time you go somewhere.

[Christine]

I wonder why that is, though. Like, because didn't you used to say it would be five hours before he would.

[Em]

Yeah, and it's getting, like, shorter.

[Christine]

Oh, shoot.

[Em]

Because last time on day one, I went out for an hour longer than I usually leave him alone to see if he's gotten more comfortable at home. Everything was destroyed. So it's like, oh, shit. Like, maybe I just need to do, like, I'll do four hours next time to be safe, because that's an hour less than he is usually. Good.

[Christine]

Does he. Is he crate trained or no?

[Em]

No, I really should have crate trained him. We were trying to do the whole, like, so he could feel like he's got space to walk around and stuff. And when we first got him, he wasn't like this. Like, especially after, like, I don't know what's happening. I think he's just getting comfortable. And now he's like, well, now I.

[Christine]

Can everything up like my ghost. Be careful.

[Em]

I know.

[Christine]

Blaming Hank for all of this nonsense.

[Em]

Anyway, that's where we are on our dog journey right now.

[Christine]

Like a Nanny cam. Oh, wait, you have one, don't you?

[Em]

I have one, but it doesn't record anything. It's just a. It's live if I click into it. And also, like, the person.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And the person who's going to be staying here. I don't want to, like.

[Christine]

No, no, no. You don't really want a camera on, I guess. I don't know. I don't know how that works.

[Em]

I don't know what the right thing to do is, but I would like to be able to watch him. So, anyway, if you're a dog trainer, let me know why he's being destructive. And if you are a witch, let me know that his little dog tag is not a problem. Other than that, I guess that's the main reason why I drink is like, I'm actually, like, very sad that I'm about to leave him, and I'm feeling like I'm abandoning him. And I'm sure he'll have an adverse reaction at first to it, but I won't be around to see it, so I just. I just feel guilty for leaving him. But whatever. Time to grow up.

[Christine]

At least you get to go. Time to grow up. Sorry. Push you out of the nest tank.

[Em]

About to be my dad, but put your big boy pants on. No.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. What did you say that one time when he stepped on the grill, you literally said, put some. Rub some dirt in it. You're becoming a boomer, man. Do you realize this? Like, that's like, what happened to gentle parenting?

[Em]

I. I can only gentle parent so far. And then if he's going to keep messing up, then it's like, well, I told you so.

[Christine]

I see.

[Em]

Okay, if I say, don't eat that and then you eat it, what am I going to do? Told you not.

[Christine]

What are you going to do? I don't know.

[Em]

I'm going to clean up his vomit later.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. Oh, I see.

[Em]

I. No, he's. He'll be fine. And he's very good with. Whenever people have stayed with him before. I just feel bad about how long it is, and I really don't want to pack either like that. It's just a bunch of, like, kind of feelings all put together. But that's why I drink.

[Christine]

Hey, your girlfriend's on the other side, so that's good.

[Em]

She is. And neither. It'll be like, neither of us have a dog or she's not gonna have a baby for a second. Like, we'll just.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

Well, it'll just be us again.

[Christine]

It's like what Blaze and I did today. It's Wednesday. Leona is in preschool all day, and my mom's picking her up. And we were like, let's go get Ty downtown. And we went downtown and went to the restaurant we used to go to, like, 20, 10 years ago when we were dating.

[Em]

Well, you were teenagers and in love.

[Christine]

When we were teenagers. Not really. We were probably 23, but yeah, sort of teenagers, but yeah. So it was, like, kind of cool. It was like, ooh, what do we do? We have, like, an emptiness for a minute.

[Em]

Yeah. How. How to feel.

[Christine]

Oh, it was excellent. And then he was like, do you want a beer? And I was like, oh, thank you for asking. I'll just drink an Angry Orchard with M later. Well, I got my Vietnamese iced coffee. That is good. I'm buzzing. I'm buzzing.

[Em]

Well, I'm glad you got your little. Your little date night. I'm very happy for you.

[Christine]

Thank you. My therapist was thrilled. I was like, she's like, you need to. She's like, you need to rest. And I was like, no. And she was like, maybe. Maybe you do. And then I was like, well, I'm going to lunch with Blaze. And she was like, that seems nice. Do that and put your phone away. And I said, okay.

[Em]

My therapist has been encouraging my solo trips to Universal.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. Cool.

[Em]

It's been very nice. I've gone, like, already, like, four times, so I've already made back the money that I spent on the season pass, which is nice.

[Christine]

Hell, yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, I. I'm doing that just for myself.

[Christine]

I love. I love a date. Like, a day date. With yourself.

[Em]

Well, I can't imagine having, like, a baby and three animals and, like, finally getting to be alone, like, with your husband. That's, like, gotta be very lovely, like, for.

[Christine]

It is pretty lovely.

[Em]

I'm saying, for me, that, like, it's already wonderful. I can't imagine, like, the you're feeling.

[Christine]

We got to be. We got to catch up. We have so much to chat about.

[Em]

Who are you?

[Christine]

I'm like, I don't even remember. What are you watching on tv?

[Em]

What's your name again?

[Christine]

Like ships in the night. Yeah, forget. I am. Have become a little jaded about some skin care products, because over the years, I've been, you know, try. I've tried so many different things, and I've felt like, okay. I'm sure they all kind of work in the same way. I feel differently, though, about one skin. Our sponsor, and I say this, having used it for months now, now because One Skin. Okay, listen, One Skin's proprietary os. I'm going to say it like I know, but I'm reading it. OS01 peptide is the first ingredient proven to switch off the damaged senescent cells that cause lines, wrinkles and thin crepey skin. It's like scientifically proven and it's led by all women.

[Em]

And look at Christine's face glowing.

[Christine]

And look at my face glowing.

[Em]

The cleanser and topical supplements can all be used with other products or treatments also. And they fit easily into your current skincare routine. So if you're. You're thinking about kind of switching lanes into a new skincare routine, you can start with this and kind of, you know.

[Christine]

They've got over 6,300 five star views. Well, 6,301 five star reviews. They've got a full line. It's really, really awesome. It's multi purpose and they have like little refillable. Anyway, I could go on. One Skin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspect of aging, One Skin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer.

[Em]

For a limited time, you can try one skin with 15 off using code [e-mail] after you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. So say us, please support our show.

[Christine]

Tell them we sent you. Give your skin the scientifically proven gentle care it deserves with One Skin.

[Em]

Now for the reason why we should all drink. I've got an urban legend for you.

[Christine]

I knew it.

[Em]

Did you?

[Christine]

I've been working on my psychic abilities and I was like, em's bringing an urban legend.

[Em]

All right, psychic, what's the topic?

[Christine]

Swamp monster.

[Em]

Yes. No. So this is dragon. You. You get three more guesses. I'd like to see what your top five happens.

[Christine]

Okay, let me channel my guides. They're not helping me.

[Em]

We just blurted it out. Gut feeling?

[Christine]

Goats?

[Em]

Nah.

[Christine]

Horse?

[Em]

No.

[Christine]

Salmon?

[Em]

No. Although I have been thinking all day about how I need to take the salmon out of my fridge. So maybe.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's. You interfered with my. I'm trying to channel over here. Stop interfering with our dinner plans. And your air wand smoothie or whatever the.

[Em]

It was from everyone I know.

[Christine]

It's from Erewhon. You're 85 salmon.

[Em]

It was all the same trip.

[Christine]

I so funny.

[Em]

Yeah. Anyway, you're crazy. This is actually.

[Christine]

Allison's gonna have that like one on one finally moment with her partner and it's gonna be like that literal question you just said. Who are you?

[Em]

I know.

[Christine]

It's Like a da. A dog dab of an erewhon shopper.

[Em]

And Allison knows who I am. Don't worry.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. She's got it. She's like. She's been. She's known.

[Em]

There have been a few times where I've been, like, really depressed, like, having, like, a day. And Allison's like, get in the car. And then we go to air. Water smoothie.

[Christine]

Here we go. It really has an. I felt tea.

[Em]

It really has become like, what was that? A spider or what?

[Christine]

No, something just, like, pushed my drink on top of me.

[Em]

You're lying.

[Christine]

I mean, it was on, like, a not steady surface, but I also didn't touch it. I don't know. It must have just slid off my table. I don't know.

[Em]

Well, we should play that back.

[Christine]

I. I didn't bump it, but we'll.

[Em]

Definitely play that back.

[Christine]

If all of a sudden I was all wet and I was like, what is that?

[Em]

I don't.

[Christine]

It just slid right toward me, I gotta say. And I'm assuming that was my fault. Most spills I don't blame on the ghost. I know better.

[Em]

I would. I mean, it could have been. Who knows?

[Christine]

No one would believe me, you know, because they'd be like, I would.

[Em]

I'm right here.

[Christine]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Em]

My hair, by the way, is doing a crazy situation, everybody. So if you see my hair looking crazy, let me know in the comments. It will be too late, but I. I mean, there's nothing we can do here.

[Christine]

I'm gonna use this as my towel to clean up.

[Em]

Oh, our sweatshirt. That's great. Okay. Use it. That's right. The schmata of the century. Okay. Oh, wow, you're really going for it.

[Christine]

Now. Now we need another one because it's empty.

[Em]

Hey, I think we've been on a few tours. Why don't you use that shirt?

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, I should just. I also have to change. Hold on.

[Em]

Oh, my God. What's to say? I'm distracted. Oh, now you're wearing clothes.

[Christine]

So I did accidentally have to put this. Took the shirt off while I was wearing headphones. So it is attached to the cord. Then I put the shirt on while I was wearing headphones. Phone. So they're both now attached to the cord on the inside. So we're just going to have to deal with it.

[Em]

It's like you've got a little, like a clothesline. I was sure you are laundry. I was going to say it's like you have, like, a little shammy. A little shammy on A carabiner or something.

[Christine]

Oh my God. Like a little Sham. Wow.

[Em]

Sham wow.

[Christine]

Bring back 90s infomercial products.

[Em]

The kids just don't know anymore.

[Christine]

I bet you that shamwow commercial is still running. And it's still the exact same one.

[Em]

It's the exact same man. Wow, he pissed me off every time. Sham. Wow. He pissed me off every time.

[Christine]

I'm so sorry. Wow, he pissed me off. Jack, I'm really sorry. I hope that you. I mean, I'm wearing boxers.

[Em]

You're fine.

[Christine]

But they're still underwear.

[Em]

I literally am half the time never wearing pants on the show.

[Christine]

Unfortunately, it's not that exciting. It probably would have been if you had a camera on me throwing my shirt over my headphones and into my microphone. But alas, that was only for the ghosts and juniper to watch.

[Em]

So beautiful.

[Christine]

Oh, wait, I forgot to refill my drink. Hold on.

[Em]

All of this.

[Christine]

Wait, I still took my headphones off because it's inside my shirt.

[Em]

Oh my God. Are you chain linked?

[Christine]

Hold on. So I'll only take a moment. It's only hurt a little.

[Em]

Okay, well, now that she's finally gone, let's talk more about those 90s infomercials. Remember that one where you blow pens where you would have to blow a phallic shaped marker and then you would get like spray paint? That was crazy. I had them in my mouth. I couldn't even do it. That said a lot. Remember the blow pens from the 90s?

[Christine]

Blow pens? No.

[Em]

They were like the markers that were, you know, like. Basically you were like a. You had to blow it.

[Christine]

I don't think I had that. Why are you laughing?

[Em]

Because I know how gross it sounds. Hang on. Blow.

[Christine]

Yeah. I'm like. I really. I thought you were like trying to punk me or something.

[Em]

No, no, just. I don't know how just to describe it without it becoming like X rated. You put your. You put your mouth on this big long thing and you blow and then stuff sprays out of it and.

[Christine]

And you weren't into that for some weird reason.

[Em]

Please Google this so I don't look like a crazy person.

[Christine]

What is it called? I thought a blow. Oh, blow dart. I'm thinking of a blow dart.

[Em]

No, but the same concept, except it's like. Like color sprays out of it.

[Christine]

Oh, and it like splatters.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Wow. It's so much worse. You're 100% right. The more you explain it, the worse it sounds.

[Em]

That's exactly right.

[Christine]

They were markers or pens.

[Em]

I think it was just Loose paint. And they made you like. I think they just were basically making you blow out of a bottle of paint.

[Christine]

Like an air spray. Like an aerosol can, but with your breath. With your humid, rancid breath. That's just really beautiful.

[Em]

Chicken nuggets and milk breath.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah. What could go wrong?

[Em]

I remember never having the lung capacity for it. I could never do it.

[Christine]

I don't know that I ever actually tried it. I just remember them from the commercials.

[Em]

And then the other. The lady who was really into the sponges on a stick, and she would dip it in the paint.

[Christine]

So nutty. What a nut. She was like, I'm so quirky. And I was like, oh, God forbid you get your hands on any of my furniture.

[Em]

She was a good time.

[Christine]

You're going to decoupage me out of my life. Out of house and home.

[Em]

House and home. Do you. Did we ever figure out who the urban legend is today? No.

[Christine]

Yeah, I think I said it. I think I said it right.

[Em]

You said. Actually all five times you said it.

[Christine]

It. I think you definitely said that. I got it right.

[Em]

Yeah, that's true. But just in case anyone else missed it, I'm gonna say it in a different way.

[Christine]

Okay. What is it again?

[Em]

I can't keep a straight face with you. Her name is Hugging Molly.

[Christine]

Molly, Right.

[Em]

And can you guess what she wants to do?

[Christine]

That's a crazy thing. That's a crazy thing. I was close with salmon. I will argue.

[Em]

Yeah, more than.

[Christine]

No, that was. That was your shopping list.

[Em]

But more than others.

[Christine]

Huggin Molly. I don't love that. And you know what's so interesting? My story is about someone named Molly today.

[Em]

Did she hug?

[Christine]

She did.

[Em]

Oh, well, maybe this is the prequel or the sequel. I don't know. Hugging Molly is a very interesting urban legend because it's kind of like the bunnyman in Virginia. It's like, very specific to a certain area.

[Christine]

I like hyper local.

[Em]

Yeah. So this is in Henry County, Alabama. It's in a town called Abbeville.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

And it's. They think over, like 100 years old. This lore. Fun fact. Abbeville. Abbeville, Alabama, is the childhood home of Rosa Parks. That's about as fun as it gets over there, it seems. Besides Hugging Molly.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, right. Wow. What a strange Wikipedia page they must have.

[Em]

Which means Rosa Parks probably knew who Hugging Molly was like.

[Christine]

I suppose if the timelines add up.

[Em]

That was her local legend.

[Christine]

Oh, knew about the legend. I thought you meant new her. Personally, I was like, I guess not. Necessarily. I see what you're saying.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah. Knew of her. So hugging Molly is a cautionary tale to kids. We love a cautionary tale.

[Christine]

What else is new about a 7.

[Em]

Foot tall ghostly woman? They described her as. As big as a bale of cotton and as broad as a door. What an insult.

[Christine]

What in the actual fuck? No wonder she's haunting everyone.

[Em]

Yeah, she's probably like, I'm not that big.

[Christine]

This broad. As broad as a door.

[Em]

Well, she wanted. Well, she didn't. I wanted to know exactly what the size of a cotton bale is because I was like, I don't even understand that frame of reference.

[Christine]

Yeah, that feels like an outdated measurement for. For us. Yeah.

[Em]

Well, according to Google, a cotton bale is only four and a half feet tall. Which already goes against the fact that she's seven feet tall. So not accurate. Okay, then it says she would be 2ft wide and 3ft thick. Damn. 3ft thick and as broad as a door. Hell yeah. That's a big girl. I like that.

[Christine]

Hell yeah, brother.

[Em]

Okay, so she is often seen in a long, flowing black skirt or dress or cloak. Something flowy. And she's also always wearing a black, wide, brimmed hat.

[Christine]

My God, this woman likes to take up her space. And you know what? Good on you, Molly. I like how they never said big hat.

[Em]

She was as wide as her own fucking hat or something.

[Christine]

Right.

[Em]

I feel like the hat is to prove to people that she's actually not that wide.

[Christine]

Well, maybe that's like how cats have their whiskers to. To sense how far they can go in. Like, you know, maybe that's what her hat is. It's like, do I fit in this doorway or is this a narrow doorway?

[Em]

That's genius. That's actually so smart. I like to think that every now and then she tilts it in certain directions just to do something crazy with her.

[Christine]

To do a little different. Yeah. Spice it up. For sure.

[Em]

Some versions have her with glowing red eyes.

[Christine]

Oh, God.

[Em]

Others didn't mention her eyes at all. Maybe she didn't have eyes. I don't know.

[Christine]

That's worse. That's. I was like, honestly, that's way worse that they don't have eyes. Versus red glowing. Yeah.

[Em]

She said to walk the streets at night. Perfect. Looking for children who haven't come home yet.

[Christine]

Oh, for God's sake.

[Em]

Because I guess I don't. How long ago did street lamps become a thing?

[Christine]

Like, I mean, they were like lamp lighters, but I think that was only in certain towns. So I Don't know, because she.

[Em]

She's supposed to be like the cautionary tale about like coming home when the lights come on before dark.

[Christine]

Before dark, yeah.

[Em]

And if it's a hundred years old, I wonder like, what dark meant back then. Like, were there lights?

[Christine]

Yeah. I guess it also really depends on the neighborhood. Like, I feel like out in the country you wouldn't have as many lights as you would in, you know.

[Em]

Yeah, you're right. I think in Abbeville, Alabama, maybe it.

[Christine]

Was just like the metropolis of Abbeyville.

[Em]

When the sun is gone, it's be inside.

[Christine]

I mean, and to be clear, I don't know, I really don't, but that's my guess.

[Em]

I took a look. It's. She's a small town.

[Christine]

It's a small town.

[Em]

Maybe that's why this woman looks so.

[Christine]

She's a big fish in a small town. Yeah, it's exactly a small pond.

[Em]

So she said to walk this. Holy. Excuse me. That came out.

[Christine]

Oh my God. That shook me physically. I felt that. That was so weird.

[Em]

It came out of my ribs. Did you feel it? Good.

[Christine]

Literally, I did.

[Em]

She said to walk down the streets, look for children once it's dark, and if they are not home yet, she is going to quickly move up behind them, sneak around, get over to them, and she's gonna chase them down if they see her. And if she gets you, she's gonna hug you.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

And in my mind I was like, great. Of all of the urban legends, of all the cryptids I could run into, please God, make it someone who hugs me and I don't die. Apparently though, she's got some sort of banshee, like scream. And so while she's hugging you, she's also screaming in your ears.

[Christine]

Cool.

[Em]

So that's certainly disarming.

[Christine]

That is very alarming. If a 7 foot tall woman in a large hat grabbed me from behind in the dark and started screaming into my ear. Yeah.

[Em]

And also, I don't know the degree of a hug, like, is this a bear hug?

[Christine]

Is this like a vice grip?

[Em]

Is it a good hug? Or is it like one of those fucking awful hugs, like, like a choke hold?

[Christine]

Is it like your auntie who's coming in like to like give your cheeks a squeeze or is it like, I'm gonna put you in a chokehold or. I don't know.

[Em]

I have one friend, I love him so much.

[Christine]

Bless his heart.

[Em]

Bless his heart. Worst hugger of my life. Worst hugger.

[Christine]

Really?

[Em]

And every time I'm like, do you. Why are you hugging me like we don't know each other and you have a gun to your head. Why are you. Who is.

[Christine]

Who is it?

[Em]

His name is.

[Christine]

Oh, it's a bad hugger.

[Em]

I don't know what.

[Christine]

He's such a charmer.

[Em]

He's. He's very charming. He's. He's wonderful in every other way, but he does the. He doesn't.

[Christine]

He doesn't.

[Em]

He doesn't envelop you. He, like, does, like, the. Like, the robot arms. Like the. Like.

[Christine]

Yeah, like the.

[Em]

And I don't know if maybe he just isn't comfortable with hugs. Maybe. But we've been friends for, like, 30 years. Like.

[Christine]

Well, Blaze does that hug me. You know, not with me, but Blaze does that with people. And I feel like. But not with his friends, though, I guess. But he definitely does the, like, I don't like to touch people thing.

[Em]

I will say he's gotten better over the years, but in high school, when we were dating, by the way.

[Christine]

Okay, well, that might be the start.

[Em]

Of all of these problems.

[Christine]

Intimacy problems should have been a clear.

[Em]

Indicator he was not into me.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The air hug is definitely one.

[Em]

It was like, it. I. It was just like a weird. Like. Like his arms moved like a robot. Like, he was just like, tap, tap.

[Christine]

Like, tap, pat and. Yeah.

[Em]

And I was like, are you okay? Because I feel stupid for hugging you. Like, I love you.

[Christine]

Right, Right. Right. Now you look like the freak.

[Em]

Now I look like I like you too much. You know what I'm saying? And I'm gay, so, like, back up, boyfriend. Anyway, he. I'm wondering if. If she's got, like. Or if she's got.

[Christine]

No way.

[Em]

If she's got, like. Like. Like you said, little kids.

[Christine]

Because a little kid, you get to slip right out of there.

[Em]

That's true.

[Christine]

If she's doing, like, a kind of air hug, that feels less effective than, like, a little vice grip.

[Em]

Yeah. I wonder. But how tight? Because here's what the. My next line.

[Christine]

What happens next?

[Em]

Well, that's kind of it. That's why I was like, that's it. He. She hugs you and screams, and then you go home. Like, how does she let go? That has to be really, like, an awkward conversation afterwards. She's like, anyway, never mind.

[Christine]

So she's like, I'm done screaming now.

[Em]

Yeah, well, so some of the theories are that she squeezes you only so tight to check your plumpness, as if, like, she's a Hansel and Gretel witch.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

But then, no matter what she's never eaten anybody.

[Christine]

How do you know? She's seven feet tall. She's a growing lady.

[Em]

That's a great point. I actually don't know. So another version is that she will scre. She'll squeeze you and scream in your ears until you die.

[Christine]

That's a kid's version I like.

[Em]

At that point, it's like, do you die from like, insanity or starvation? Or is she cracking your ribs because she's hugging you? So right?

[Christine]

Or is right. Or are you just dying a supernatural death? Like, who knows?

[Em]

Yeah. Or is she like, is her skin poison and you die immediately? I don't know.

[Christine]

Right. Will they ever find your body?

[Em]

I guess the answer is no, because nobody's ever been found.

[Christine]

Exactly. Wow.

[Em]

That's also because nobody's ever gone missing.

[Christine]

But.

[Em]

Well, so the main version, though, is that she just basically screams at you until you go home. So she's just like a mom on the streets being like, get out of here. Go home.

[Christine]

Except she's a little too touchy, feeling like she's not good at boundaries and with other people's family members and children.

[Em]

Like, super in your face about it. Yeah, got it. So some parents often use this as, like I said, a cautionary tale of like, don't stay out too long. Later, hugging Molly will get you. And there was this local named Jimmy, and he was quoted when asked about hugging Molly, saying, anyone who grew up in this town grew up knowing the legend of hugging Molly. And you believed it too. He even said that, like, his own friends, parents were like, all had a story about either someone. Or like, he remembers his friend's dad saying, like, oh, yeah, one time she snuck up behind me and. And. And I. I'm one of her victims. And it's. I don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah, you only need to hear one or two of those stories as a kid to be like, got it. I'm fucking terrified.

[Em]

Yeah, 100%. So for generations, people have claimed to see her. There's this one guy named Mac from the 1920s. He's like, still one of the origin stories of her, I guess, where he was doing a night delivery for his boss. I think he worked at a grocery store. And he was walking down the street doing this delivery and he sent someone behind him. Interestingly, this is a grown ass person who has a job, not like a child. So it sounds like hugging Molly goes after anybody.

[Christine]

Yeah, I was gonna say, okay. Not her usual M.O. but sure.

[Em]

Yeah. And he saw a figure moving around him and so he was like, I'M gonna walk a little faster. And the thing started walking. It always kept his pace. So if he slowed down, it's slow down. Eventually he just sprints, gets to the door, slams it behind him, and he looks behind him, and no one was ever there. So that could have just been paranoia, babe.

[Christine]

But. Oh, my God. But think about it. You slam the door, you're like, phew. And then you turn around. She's actually.

[Em]

You know, that would have been horror movie. So much worse. Another time.

[Christine]

Here, darling, for your hug. Give Aunt Molly a hug.

[Em]

You know what? For someone who's gonna give a hug that big, where's the weird wet, a little too close to your lips? Kiss. You know, maybe.

[Christine]

Maybe that's all part of it.

[Em]

Maybe, you know, everyone just. They don't even mention that.

[Christine]

That's for you. I was gonna say they don't even wanna talk about that part.

[Em]

Another time, a woman saw her son coming home and she literally saw, like, I guess essentially the shadow of like a grim reaper or someone right behind him by and was like, run, run, run. Get here. And he ran inside just in time before the thing got to him.

[Christine]

So that's creepy. Cause that reminds me of, like, running up the stairs from the basement, you know, where it's like you're almost home and you have to, like, sprint. I mean, that's scary. And she's chasing you. Yeah, that's. That's. That's like a very primal fear I.

[Em]

Feel a hundred percent. And especially like a hundred years ago if you're walking around in a small town with no lights. And also, yeah, let's take into the fact that 100 years ago, if you're marginalized at all.

[Christine]

Right?

[Em]

Right. And you're in a. In parts of Alabama after the sun goes down.

[Christine]

Right. There's a reason people want your home, you know?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And so that could be people of color, that could be women. I mean, whatever it is, you had a reason to be fucking scared of thinking some things after you, for sure.

[Christine]

For sure.

[Em]

So there is a theory that that's one of the origins. Hugging Molly as like, she was a. A warning of, like. Yeah, survive. You gotta stay. You gotta go home. So anyway, these. These sightings of her led to actually some copycats out in the world.

[Christine]

Oh, no, that's. You don't want to hear that.

[Em]

And there was this one guy in Louisiana. Can you hear the plane going over me?

[Christine]

No, I thought you were looking at someone 7ft tall. And I was like, ah, it's happening.

[Em]

No, that's Juniper's job.

[Christine]

Yeah, I was gonna say you look just like him.

[Em]

It is weird that you were saying that earlier, because I was like, oh, that sounds like Kagamali. Just a big, tall lady.

[Christine]

Good.

[Em]

With a flowing dress that you saw.

[Christine]

That's true.

[Em]

Maybe your psychic abilities actually are working, Christine. Maybe you're not seeing a ghost. You're just predicting my stories.

[Christine]

What if I'm just literally channeling your grocery list and your upcoming pot? What a useless talent.

[Em]

That's exactly.

[Christine]

No offense.

[Em]

No, that sounds kind of cool. I'm just in your psyche, so.

[Christine]

Okay, maybe I'm in yours. Frankly, the way that I keep saying things like salmon, but I don't know.

[Em]

We are weirdly mind melded often.

[Christine]

It is. It's unpleasant. Yeah.

[Em]

Okay, so there were some copycats. There was one guy in New Orleans who was like, now dressing up as hugging Molly and running around at night to try to hug women.

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

Men always have to ruin everything.

[Christine]

I thought you were gonna say children, and I was like, bad. And then you said women, and I said, also bad. I mean, maybe also bad. Anyone Also bad.

[Em]

Still trying to, like, encroach on someone's private space.

[Christine]

Yeah, big time bad. Yeah.

[Em]

It. It was happening so much that he became known as the Woman in Black because they were dressing up as a woman in black. And the local newspaper in this town had to write up a column about him, hoping that he would see it, and it said, this is a quote. Some unprincipled person is parading the streets of Headland at all hours of the night dressed as a woman in black. It is frightening the women and children and causing our large number of dogs to be kicking up a racket at most any time of the night. I have been requested to notify the person or thing that it will be shot on sight by a certain husband and father whose wife and children were frightened out of their wits the other night. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Like or thing. I like how it's like, we don't even know if you're a person, but you better read this article.

[Em]

It's like, person or entity. Woman in black.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah. Entity. Either way, some men have volunteered to shoot you on site.

[Christine]

And they have not only volunteered, they have guaranteed it.

[Em]

Yeah. Yikes. Yeah. Which, you know, just goes to show you don't hang out in the dark waiting to grab a woman or children.

[Christine]

Yeah. Don't lurk around and grab unsuspecting people. I know that that's something you've always wanted to think about as something Socially acceptable. But, you know, now it's time that we give you the hot take that it's not.

[Em]

I do like the idea of, like, putting it in a public forum. Like, hey, other people have volunteered to, like, beat your ass if you keep doing this. Like.

[Christine]

And also, the dogs are getting so loud. It's like, wait.

[Em]

Actually, as the editor, I'm just going to add this in real quick. I am so annoyed by these dogs.

[Christine]

Yeah. It's actually so annoying. Also, like, I know you're actually targeting women and stuff, but, like, can you just keep it down? I have a newspaper. I have to get up so fucking early.

[Em]

Note to the editor. I'm actually a victim in this. From the dogs.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'm a victim, too.

[Em]

But yeah, so there were people hearing about this and continually doing stuff about it.

[Christine]

That's great. That's just fucking great.

[Em]

As for the. The origin of the name hugging Molly, they don't know really where they got the name Molly. But the best guess is that there's a term apparently for if you, like, fell into a train track and an oncoming train is nearby.

[Christine]

What?

[Em]

And it's called hugging the Molly. And that term means hugging the rails to try to not get hit.

[Christine]

Oh, that thing that they always did in, like, cartoons where you'd, like, lay flat.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

God.

[Em]

So they.

[Christine]

That's called hugging the Molly. I had no idea.

[Em]

Neither. Apparently. That was like, an old term for that, so.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

That's the closest hugging Molly reference we know of.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

So that's what we're guessing on is that I guess you're close to death and you're pressed up against something and.

[Christine]

It'S that, like, last minute, like, incoming.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Freight train or lady chasing you. But the other thing that I thought with hugging Molly isn't Molly, the. The name that was given to a lot of immigrants who moved here and started work, as in, like, the servant class back then.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

And a lot of people were just named Molly. I'm pretty sure that was like, a pretty common, you know what? Trope.

[Em]

You know what's so funny? Both of my great grandmas who immigrated here are both named Molly.

[Christine]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure that's like, a common thing. Interesting. If I'm not mistaken.

[Em]

And I can't find any more information on them, so maybe their name is not Molly.

[Christine]

I. I think that's part of it is like, let me see. I just want to make sure I'm saying this right.

[Em]

I had no idea about that. That's so interesting.

[Christine]

Yeah. I Remember reading that in. Oh, my gosh. Like, some. I don't know. I don't know. I'll. I'll look into it later. Hopefully I'm right. But I feel like it was one of those nicknames that was given to people as just kind of like a filler name, you know, when they moved here.

[Em]

Gotcha. But, no, I had no idea. That's super interesting. Maybe that's it. Hugging random woman name.

[Christine]

Like, yeah. Like. Like Joe, you know?

[Em]

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, so as for who she might be, the main theory I've heard is that people think maybe she's the ghost of a grieving mother who's just looking to. Oh, geez, Hug local children.

[Christine]

I mean, that's like, La Llorona. Got that written all over it.

[Em]

Yeah. So she's just, like, crying and wants to hug a kid. I mean, it's just miserable.

[Christine]

I mean, that is scary as a kid. If it's like a mom looking for her child might think you're. You know, that is, like, La Llorona, like, traumatizing.

[Em]

Yeah. Or like, she's just so sad that any child that comes nearby, she just wants to hug a child because she doesn't have her.

[Christine]

Oh, I see. Yeah. Yikes.

[Em]

Either way, it's very sad. And then say, oh, and she's as broad as a door. It's like, okay. She, like, really is having a bad day. Like, maybe, like, really.

[Christine]

Come on, leave her. Look at her hat. Let's talk about that.

[Em]

Yeah. The other theory is that she was actually a victim of a murder and nobody heard her screams at the time. So now she's running up to people and screaming in hopes that they will either help as a residual energy or for acknowledgment for what happens.

[Christine]

Oh, okay, interesting. So it could be residual, or she's, like, still having unfinished business.

[Em]

Sort of. Yeah. The last theory, which is the most likely, is that Molly was never a ghost or a woman, but a professor from a nearby college who hated his students going out at night. And so he would, God, dress up as this woman in black to scare all the kids back into their dorms. Now, that's a rumor that. I mean, I don't think it's ever been confirmed, but it's very. It's very. Well, it's heavily discussed in the Hug and Molly worlds. Like, it's like, a very likely case. Like, it's like they even have, like, the school name written down. Everything. It's like, oh, wow, the School of Agriculture. And there was this. This well known curmudgeony professor who hated all the noise outside when students would go out on Friday nights and.

[Christine]

But loved to wear women's clothing. And he found the perfect use for it.

[Em]

I'm telling you, he had it in his closet and he just knew exactly where to wear it.

[Christine]

He felt fabulous. But also pissed off.

[Em]

But also pissed off. He just wanted to watch his stories. And you're too damn loud.

[Christine]

Yeah. God. Come to class. Not hungover for once.

[Em]

It really started to eat at him. I guess so.

[Christine]

I guess.

[Em]

Anyway, that's the main likely rumor is that it's just like a random guy who wants to scare young people in the woods. Which sounds ridiculous, but also how many men are out there that do like scaring people, you know, so.

[Christine]

Right. Also, like, somebody literally did that in New Orleans as a copy. So it's like, I mean, maybe it was somebody doing it. A real person to begin with. Yeah, I guess that tracks well.

[Em]

The last sighting. The last reported sighting, I guess was in 2010 at a local event in town. Molly was seen during a cemetery tour lurking behind the headstones.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

And they actually, because there was like an event going on. Some people are like, oh, that's not real. That was clearly someone dressed up as her for a semester tour. So it's in the air. A lot of people have different opinions on if that is legit or not.

[Christine]

That's creepy though. Like to see like a seven foot figure in a hat behind. Yuck.

[Em]

Even if it was a person dressed up as her, imagine if like nobody as part of the event actually knew about that. And there's just a woman dressed up in a wide brim hat staring at everyone.

[Christine]

Why is her looking at me? She's like, I just came for the hors d'. Oeuvres.

[Em]

There is one source that says hugging Molly has now become such a big part of the town's lore that Abbeville, Alabama now hosts an annual Huggin Molly day. But I didn't see anything about that anywhere else except that one source. But that would be fun. According to this one source, people in town dress up like her and I guess hug each other. I don't know.

[Christine]

They hug, they chase the children around town.

[Em]

Chase the children. They have a big scream pit. We can make it like ice cream. Hello? Ice cream. Yeah.

[Christine]

This is starting to actually form into something. I think you and I could head.

[Em]

The party planning committee on a Hugging Molly Day. For sure.

[Christine]

I'm saying I think that like, I mean the hugging part. I think we need to create a Few boundaries, but the rest. I feel that we could make it work.

[Em]

You could do like a. A green light, yellow light, red light, wristband of, like, yes, you can hug me. I'm just here to watch. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

That's easy. That got handled very quickly, didn't it?

[Christine]

What the. That was, like, the easiest part of this whole thing.

[Em]

Boom. The local I told you about forever ago, Jimmy, who, like, his friend's dad told him about a what if atheist, says Jimmy still lives in town, and he opened a 50s themed soda fountain restaurant called Huggin Molly's.

[Christine]

That's cool. I mean, it has a perfect name for that.

[Em]

And yet that menu, just like last time, my friend, I am not. Not very impressed.

[Christine]

I'm telling you, like, get it together.

[Em]

Also, apparently there's a bunch of, like, original movie posters all throughout the restaurant. Okay. Like, someone cracked one open at a hugging Molly's.

[Christine]

I'm saying that half my angry orchard got poured into my lap.

[Em]

That's what I'm worried my back would sound like. If hugging Molly's got me.

[Christine]

Like, just, you know, maybe that's why she goes after children. They're more limber. You know, we're just gonna, like, they're more stretchy.

[Em]

So. Okay, the walls of this restaurant apparently have a whole bunch of movie posters put up. And fun fact, they are originals. They're not. Not, like, recently printed. But there's also, I guess. I guess he collects a bunch of old movie props, and one of them is the gun from Old Yeller. Like, what is going on in this house? So it's a 1950s soda fountain. It's named after a hugging cryptid, and there's, like, the gun that killed Old Yeller in there.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And the menu doesn't sound that great.

[Christine]

It sort of feels like he's just confronting all of his childhood demons at once, you know? Like, you were scared of. You were scared of hugging Molly because your friend's dad. You were. You were, like, traumatized by Old Yeller. Who wasn't? It feels like you're kind of, like, bringing everything under one roof to be like, now I can control my own fear. You know, not to be, like, too armchair psychiatrist about it, but did you.

[Em]

Ever actually watch Old Yeller?

[Christine]

I don't think I ever watched it. I think. I mean, I read where the Red Fern Grows and all that nonsense. So I think by the time I knew what Old Yeller was, I was like, get that away from me. Yeah, right now we want nothing to do with that.

[Em]

We had two versions of Old Yeller during our era, which was.

[Christine]

Yeah, Shiloh love to do. They love to do this to us in the 90s.

[Em]

Shiloh and my dog Skip. Did you ever watch either of those?

[Christine]

That was Shiloh.

[Em]

My dog Skip was very similar. It was Frankie Muniz and like a little beagle.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Em]

To this day, I. First of all, Shiloh is what I want everyone to know this about me. During 9 11, they decided to distract the children at my school by playing Shiloh. I just want you to know that.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Do you know what they played at my school?

[Em]

What? My dog Skip.

[Christine]

The. The live News coverage of 9 11. They were like, here's another building. I'm like, We're 10. What the.

[Em]

I think they put Shiloh on so we would. Would. We would be able to justify in our heads why everyone else was crying. It's like, oh, if the teachers are.

[Christine]

Crying because the dog died, we just are sad. I mean.

[Em]

Yeah, anyway.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's one way to do it, I guess, anyway, to link one trauma with another, you know.

[Em]

But my dog Skip was arguably worse. And I actually, every time I, like, have a moment where I think about, like, a horrible thing that could happen to Hank and like, my, like, overprotective parent kicks in. I. I equate it to the feeling. The first time I ever had that feeling was when I watched my dog Skip and bad guys do bad things to a dog. It's. And it. It's a children's movie.

[Christine]

Yeah. No, and see, it's like, why did they think this was appropriate for children? And I've never seen this movie, so I'm not talking about the movie, but the book the Art of Racing in the Rain ripped you up. I literally saw. I mean, and I read it as an adult, but I like, it's about the dog stuff. Nope. Thank you. I will skip it. Skip. Skip. Skip.

[Em]

In third grade, we were, for some reason the. I think our teacher had ADHD and she had a hyper fixation on the Iditarod. And so now we have to learn about the Iditarod. That if you're.

[Christine]

Seems to happen though, if you're a.

[Em]

Teacher with adhd, can you confirm that your hyper fixation just become what the kids have to learn?

[Christine]

I guess because we had a teacher who was obsessed with NASCAR and her name was Mrs. Spivey. And we learned she was our math teacher and we had to learn math through watching. Well, learn math watching NASCAR all the time. And it was like, really horrible. It was fifth grade.

[Em]

It's like, how many laps can they do? One, two, three.

[Christine]

So in fifth grade, we were literally watching nascar. We'd have to pick a car number and that was like our number. I mean, she and her husband would, like, go to all the races. And I'm like, she just wanted to do that.

[Em]

That. Yeah, for sure.

[Christine]

That was the same year that 911 happened. So I was watching NASCAR. I was watching live for numbers 11 footage. You were watching Shiloh. I mean, Jesus Christ.

[Em]

What number Was your car? 49.

[Christine]

No, I think it was probably whatever was left over. I was not a very bold child. It was very. I was very like, I leave me out of the NASCAR thing, you know.

[Em]

Interesting, interesting.

[Christine]

I don't recall.

[Em]

Well, I don't know how we got here, but don't. Dogs don't watch Shiloh or Old Yellow. Oh, the Iditarod, too. I had to read up. Oh, right, sorry. We had like. We had to come up with a dog. We were the dog. We had to name ourselves as a dog. And then we all raced.

[Christine]

Oh, that's way better than nascar.

[Em]

But we had to read a book about the Iditarod that was apparently meant for children. If someone knows what book I'm talking about.

[Christine]

Do you remember that book? Yeah.

[Em]

Tell me the title. Where, like all this one dog, they just want this dog to win the Iditarod. And it's like his last race and then when it. Right before he gets to the finish line, his heart literally explodes and he dies.

[Christine]

Yes. Yep. That is. I read that too. Is that. Is it Akiak or whatever? No, no, not that one. I did. I'm trying to remember because I remember we had to read a weird amount of Iditarod themed books. Also.

[Em]

What was going on? Was it like, was 2000, was it Gary Paulson?

[Christine]

Was it Winter Dance?

[Em]

No, I don't remember.

[Christine]

No, I don't remember why. Oh, Balto.

[Em]

No, not Balto. I have seen Balto, like the actual dog, by the way.

[Christine]

Oh, that's right.

[Em]

Where he's taxidermied in, like Kansas City or some.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[Em]

Yeah, it's not looking good, I'll tell you that. Time to put them.

[Christine]

Yeah, I don't remember which one, but I do remember the heart exploding because I remember going. Even I know as a child that this is like, really inappropriate.

[Em]

Too far. Anyway, where were we? Oh, I just wanted to say that the menu, it's very. It's not very extensive, but it's a long, normal sized menu. And the only Option.

[Christine]

No, this is it. It is Akio. This is her last chance. Let me text you, see if it's familiar. The title or the. The COVID.

[Em]

No.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

There's just. I guess. Or maybe, like, it's. You know how all books have, like, five different covers?

[Christine]

Oh, true. Because it is talking about her heart.

[Em]

I don't.

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

Maybe there were multiple. I don't know. I really don't remember. All I remember is reading that, and I don't even. You know, I don't really enjoy reading. And then I had to read that book, and then the dog dies before even finishing the finisher.

[Christine]

And I feel like some teachers were trying to make us hate to. You know it works. Felt almost intentional.

[Em]

I read that, and I went, well, this is horseshit. And I went, I'm not reading any more. Okay.

[Christine]

Is it called Stone Fox?

[Em]

No, no, no.

[Christine]

I'm just gonna stop. Someone's gonna know it.

[Em]

I have a zoom with some of my friends from the third grade with your therapist.

[Christine]

Ask her.

[Em]

But I have friends. I'll ask them, and I'll get back to you on what book it was. They'll know.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

Anyway, I just wanted to say the last thing. Obviously, I'm gonna mention the menu of the hugging Molly's restaurant. And the only option.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, girl.

[Em]

What? Did you find it?

[Christine]

I found a buzzfeed article called you are probably forced to read a book about a dog dying in grade school and we'll never know why. And then the. Oh, my God.

[Em]

Let's see.

[Christine]

Troubling fourth grade curriculum. I love dogs. I was excited to read it. Okay. They talk about Old Yeller where the red friend goes, stone Fox.

[Em]

Maybe it was Stone Fox. I don't know.

[Christine]

Searchlight's heart explodes and she dies right before reaching the finish line.

[Em]

I don't know why. I don't remember the name of this book at all. Maybe it is.

[Christine]

Well, probably because it traumatized you. It says it was fourth grade curriculum.

[Em]

And I read it in third.

[Christine]

Wow. M saying.

[Em]

Anyway, the menu has Molly's fingers plate. It's a chicken finger plate. Molly's.

[Christine]

That's lunacy. That's ridiculous.

[Em]

It doesn't have anything to do with hugging.

[Christine]

It doesn't make sense.

[Em]

Like Molly's fingers.

[Christine]

That's annoying.

[Em]

And then they had two desserts called the Golly Molly and Molly's blonde sister, which I'm guessing is a blondie.

[Christine]

Lol. Everything else, Molly's blonde sister. We didn't come up with a name for her.

[Em]

Yeah. Huggin anything. Yeah. And also Hugging Molly is featured in the video game south of Midnight. And there's an indie found footage type of movie called Hugging Molly that came out last year and you can watch it on YouTube.

[Christine]

That's kind of fun. That feels like it would be scary as a found footage type of movie, you know?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Like it's like the chasing to like you're trying to get away. Yeah, that feels like it could really work.

[Em]

That's. That's Hugging Molly.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. I don't know that I've ever heard of something like that. So that is new to me. I'm gonna look for my notes real quick because I closed them because I felt like last night when I was just doing other stuff. They were opened for today and I thought every time I see the tab, I just start to get sad. So I'm gonna close it.

[Em]

Fair enough. Christine, I gotta be honest. One of the. One of my most embarrassing secrets from college was that I. Oh wait, hold on.

[Christine]

Let me turn the volume up so we can all hear.

[Em]

I didn't know what an overdraft fee.

[Christine]

Was and I. I shouldn't laugh. I shouldn't laugh.

[Em]

So I just kept allowing it to happen and I.

[Christine]

It kept working and then you didn't know. I mean, I don't blame you. And we don't get very, very great financial education in this country, you know?

[Em]

No. And now nowadays, now I know what an overdraft fee is and I go, oh my. So sorry. Uh, no. Money has not always been my forte, let's put it that way.

[Christine]

That is why we're so thankful to have Chime as a sponsor today. Chime understands that every dollar counts. That's why when you set up direct deposit through Chime, you get access to fee free features like free overdraft coverage past M and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. I know a lot of people could use that. So. Learn [e-mail] Drink we really appreciate the brand. They have helped a lot of people get. Get their stuff in order. It's something Em and I both could have really used back in our college days.

[Em]

Past me would be hip hip hooraying right now. Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in two minutes at chime.com drink that's chime.com drink Chime feels like progress.

[Christine]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA Members FDIC Spot me eligibility Requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees. Apply it out of network ATMs, bank ranking and number of ATMs, according to U.S. news and World Report, 2023 Chime checking account requirements. Tired? I know this feels impossible, but it turns out shopping and planning for groceries can be simple and stress free. I know you don't believe me, but it's true. Because what happens is Hungry Root shows up. They fill your cart with like a curated list of stuff for your week and it's like everything. I'm talking like seriously curated. Like, Leona is a picky eater and she gets special lunchtime meals and dinners and then, you know, I'm pescatarian, whatever. And they just build this beautiful grocery cart for you and then it just comes straight to your door.

[Em]

That's, I mean, whether you're gluten free, dairy free, high protein, focused on gut health, or whatever else. Hungry Root helps you eat well. And after a quick quiz, you know, we love a quiz. Their smart cart. Oh, you know, I love a rhyme too. Technology recommends groceries and supplements tailored to your needs. Like having truly a personal shopper, but food.

[Christine]

And it learns from what you order, what you like, what you don't like. It's. It's super cool. They also reduce food waste in this way, which is awesome. You avoid those impulse grocery buys that end up just getting tossed cost. And their best price program offers great value in over 100 popular products. And with our offer, you'll even get a free item like a premium protein veggie or sweet treat in every box for life.

[Em]

You know I love a sweet treat. Take advantage of this exclusive offer for a limited time. Get 40 off your first box. Plus get a free item in every box for life.

[Christine]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your Choice for Life.

[Em]

Life hungryroot.com Drink code drink.

[Christine]

All right, I was just. Fun fact. Peeing. And I was sitting there and I just glanced into Blaze's office to see if the window was open and it wasn't.

[Em]

I was.

[Christine]

Phew. So I sat down to pee and all of a sudden I heard this scraping sound. And I look over and Moonshine's two paws are underneath the door and they're just scratching. And he pulls the door open with his creepy little paws. So sometimes I'm like, maybe Moonshine's just at the heart of all of it. I don't know, but he opens it, bursts his way in, the door slams. Because it does that if you don't stop it. So he just bursts in, slams the door, I flush the toilet, he jumps up and he sticks his paw in the toilet. I'm like, are you out of your mind? What are you doing?

[Em]

I will say simply safe. This is not an ad for them, but with our simply safe they have window and door sensors. Like they have like a window sensor specifically. So if you think the window's always opening, you could see, you could. You will hear it beep throughout the house if it ever opens.

[Christine]

That's true.

[Em]

And then that way you can see if moonshine's the one, like pressing into it with this claws or something.

[Christine]

That's such a good point. Because we also have those sensors and we do not have them all the way on the third floor because we thought, why on earth would we need them? And here we are. Mine opened and Juniper, that was the wind, but mine, the lock was kind of messed up, but it was like one of those tiny attic windows. And so it kept swinging open. I mean, I've told the story, but I found Juniper on the roof. I closed it and then Juniper was like. And I look and he's on the fucking third floor roof. I mean, talk about these cats. So, you know, part of me is like, maybe it's a fucking cats. But then when they're all three in the room, I'm like, oh, there's no one else to blame.

[Em]

No, no. So I, I'm very glad I don't have cats because I think, I would immediately think that my belief in the go in ghosts would heighten the second I got cats.

[Christine]

No, it really does. And well, you know, it's twofold. Cuz on the one hand it's like, yeah, you're like, oh God, they're like scaring me. But then on the other hand, it's so easy to blame them for anything and everything that you sort of just get jaded and you're like, ah, it's a cat. Like if you grew up with cats your whole life, any sort of noise, it's like certainly probably the cat, like knocking something over no matter how loud it is. It could be the cat Juniper running down the stairs and clomping around. It could be moonshine, like shoving my plant, my orchid off the dresser. Like, I don't know, you know, so it's like you can kind of blame them, which makes it easier. But yeah, you're right, that does add an element of like chaos that cannot always be explained. Okay, I have a story for you today. This is the story of Jason Corbett, and it is a doozy. I will say I didn't know about it until I heard about it in. In this instance and requested it, because I was like, how? I can't believe we never heard the story. It felt like such a. Maybe I just missed it. But I'm curious to hear if you recognize anything from it. So. Molly Martens met her husband, Jason Corbett, in 2008 in what Friends described as a whirlwind, fair romance. Interestingly, Molly had grown up in. Did you talk about Tennessee? No. You talked about Alabama. Ignore me. Molly grew up in Tennessee, and Jason was born and raised in Limerick, Ireland.

[Em]

You know what? Ireland is the best place to have a town called Limerick.

[Christine]

I mean, I think that's why they're called Limericks. What, like, named after the town?

[Em]

Oh, I didn't put that together. I was thinking, like, oh, a town named Limerick. And I was like, oh, that sounds like a very Irish. Oh.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. Because like an. Because like, an Irish limerick is like, I. I once met a man from Peru.

[Em]

It never. I did not put those things together.

[Christine]

I dreamt he was eating his shoe.

[Em]

Sometimes I feel like he awoke with.

[Christine]

A fright in the middle of the night to find that his dream had come true.

[Em]

First of all, stunning. Second of all, I feel like my college dean should take my graduate, like, my. Like, my degree away sometimes.

[Christine]

Hold on, let me call them.

[Em]

Because I feel so stupid when you say something like that. And then I go, oh, I'm the last person on earth to know that.

[Christine]

I'm the one who says things like, the gig jig is up. I don't even know which one's correct me either anymore.

[Em]

You. But you also. You.

[Christine]

Like, I didn't ruin that for. I did. I did ruin that for everyone. I do apologize.

[Em]

Ruined me.

[Christine]

But don't worry, There are plenty of things m. That I am just flying high in my blissful ignorance song.

[Em]

Never worry, Never in a million years Irish Limerick would come out of Limerick, Ireland.

[Christine]

Duh.

[Em]

Anyway.

[Christine]

Well, I mean, again, I'm one who makes up limericks for fun in my head, so I think it's probably a different context.

[Em]

Did you just make that up? The one you just said?

[Christine]

No, no, no, no. That's a famous one.

[Em]

I was like.

[Christine]

I think I actually even said it incorrectly, because it's like, he's eating his pillow. Okay. Or maybe he's eating a shoe. I don't know. It doesn't matter. Okay.

[Em]

I literally can't help you at all.

[Christine]

But Limerick, Ireland's pretty kick ass. I feel like it is the most Irish sounding place I've ever heard also. And that's where he had been born and raised. So their paths, you know, kind of random. Tennessee, Limerick, Ireland. How did they meet? Well, let me tell you. Molly had dropped out of school. She had recently suffered a miscarriage, and she was in a very tumultuous, toxic relationship. And as part of this, she needed an out and escape and a fresh start. So meanwhile, across the ocean in Limerick, Jason's wife had just died tragically and very suddenly, leaving him devastated and alone to parent two young children who his whole world. So he's suddenly overnight becomes a single dad in his early 30s, like, really sudden. Jason was looking for support raising the two kids because he worked full time as the plant manager at an international packing packaging company. So he posted on a nannying site. And when Molly saw the post, she eagerly moved, which is interesting. She moved to Ireland, and I'm pretty sure Molly is an Irish name. So it's like, like, interesting that that would come from Ireland to the U.S. yeah, as a name. And then like. Anyway, so she saw this post, she, she really felt drawn to it because she read, you know, the two young kids had just lost their mother tragically, and she felt just very drawn to this and she needed a fresh start. So she eagerly worked as an au pair for Jason and the family. It seemed like a really good fit. They all got along right away. Jason was from a working class family in Ireland. Meanwhile, Molly is from Tennessee and she was raised by two parents, the father of which was an FBI agent. Okay. So she had a very distinctly different life upbringing than he did, but they did have a common interest, which was a love for children. And pretty immediately, Molly took these two kids under her wing as her own kids, essentially. Jason was very close with his own family. He had seven siblings, and he and his sister Tracy, they were best friends. And Tracy is a character throughout this whole story. Okay, so Molly grew up caring for her younger brothers, and she loved to look after kids so much and babysit so much that one of her aunts said she was gonna make her a shirt that just said everybody's favorite cousin because she was. Because she just loved always being around the littler kids. So when Molly felt like everything was falling apart, she had that miscarriage. She was in a tumultuous relationship, she dropped out of school. She just felt like, okay, I, I found this family, the kids Lost their mom. I feel like this would be, you know, the perfect fit. And it really did feel like a fairy tale. Molly quickly connected with the children. Their names were Jack and Sarah. Jack was older, and Sarah was the younger sister. Sarah had only been a newborn. She was 12 weeks old when her mother had died suddenly. So she never knew her consciously, really.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And Molly essentially became the only mother figure she'd ever known. And pretty quickly, Sarah just started calling her mom because this woman lived with them and was their mother figure. I'm gonna send you some pictures throughout because I just feel like it adds to the story. I mean, so here is. And I don't know the legality of which ones we can post. I'm going to send links to Megan and Jack and see what. What works. But just so Em has an idea. This is Molly and the two kids, cutie pies.

[Em]

And also, Molly and Sarah look alike.

[Christine]

They. Isn't that freaky? They look a lot alike, actually.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. I'm gonna draw. Oh, I forgot I have one more. And so they kind of, like, became a family pretty immediately. Like, they. They really. She just kind of, like, jumped into life with them and, like, fit, you know, as. As a. Another parental figure.

[Em]

Oh, they're all. They're all such cutie pies.

[Christine]

Oh, I know, I know. They're really, like, sweet. The photos are just, like, absolutely adorable. Jason, the dad, felt drawn to Molly. Of course, he was still kind of reeling from the loss of his wife, but Molly was beautiful, gentle, kind, and of course his children loved her. And so he started to fall for her. And he was a little bit hesitant about this because he has these two kids. His greatest fear was that if something happened and they broke up, the kids would be devastated. Exactly. And so he was like, I don't think I can commit to that right now. So he had sent that in an email, and. And there is evidence of some of these emails. So in an email, he told her this, that that would be his greatest fear. And of course, like, in a typical relationship, they could take their time and, like, choose when to introduce. But as the au pair, like, she's already, you know, entrenched with the family, there's a lot of emotional connection already happening. And so this was a different situation. Jason had met his first wife, Margaret Fitzpatrick, who actually, which is also, like, the most Irish name. She went, Mags. Mags Fitzpatrick.

[Em]

Are you kidding me? Oh, my gosh.

[Christine]

It's like, that's me.

[Em]

It's like I just discovered Irish names and then had to Write a little story or something.

[Christine]

It's like how our manager is named Maggie Houlahan. Like the most, like, Irish. I mean, she's a redhead.

[Em]

Like, couldn't be.

[Christine]

And she's a redhead. I don't think I ever put any of that together, but. Oh, yeah, yeah, Fitzpatrick. So Mags Fitzpatrick, he had met her through a mutual friend and they fell in love pretty quickly. They were married in 2003. They were completely in love. They were both very successful in their careers. They had these two beautiful kids and the two kids were both of their whole worlds. I'm sending you a picture. This is Jason and Mags, his first wife, who had tragically passed. And I'll tell you what happened because it's pretty fucked up. So one night in 2006, six, when baby Sarah, like I said, was just 12 weeks old. Mags was up one night feeding the baby. And she was a lifelong asthmatic and she started having this asthma attack. She started wheezing, she used her inhaler. It didn't help. Jason woke up Mag's sister Catherine, and they called an ambulance. They were racing against time because Mags just, the, the harder she fought, the harder it was for her to breathe.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

And terrified, she told her sister, I'm going to die. Die. She just was like, I'm going to die. And Jason got Mags into his car. They met an ambulance that was en route to their home. But Mags died at the hospital at only 31 years old.

[Em]

Oh, my God, what a tragic way to go.

[Christine]

Tragic. I mean, feeding your baby one second and then like, poof, you know, and now Jason, who's only 30, is alone with a 2 year old and a 12 week old and his wife is gone. You know, it's like, like, talk about just a. An utter tragedy. So of course, deeply traumatizing. It had been really difficult for him to establish any sort of stability for the kids now, you know, and so he was just terrified that, like, if I get my romance involved, you know, then like, this is. Might be dangerous for them. It might be unstable. But Molly was very sure of her feelings and she said, hey, don't worry, we're not going to break up up. Like, I don't see the reason to wait. I don't want to wait for you to commit. And there was this tension sort of where she's like, I want you to be like my person and you better say it now. And he said, you know, classic tale. As old as time. Even his sister Tracy could notice. Or did Notice the. The chemistry between them. She said, like, when Molly arrived, he just got. He just became like a more happy person like he used to be. Like, he really just felt. Felt like she was the right fit for the family. And so over time, they just decided, you know what? Why are we fighting this? We're gonna get together. So the couple decided to move to the United States together, where Jason could transfer to another packaging plant. They wanted to start fresh. They got engaged, they bought a house, and they moved to a cul de sac in Meadowlands, North Carolina. Now, I have a little. Or I have a couple pictures here of the kiddos. This is them move and imagine them with little Irish accents, and then they move to North Carolina.

[Em]

I know. I'm sure every. Both parties were like, what are you saying? What are you saying?

[Christine]

What are you saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kids already don't know, like, what each other are saying, so it's kind of funny.

[Em]

I feel like the little boy, you can tell he's got an Irish accent. I don't know what it is about him. There's something Irish about him. I don't know what it is.

[Christine]

I with agree, agree. I agree.

[Em]

Oh, God, they're such cutie pies.

[Christine]

They really are. So in June 2011, their families and friends traveled to North Carolina for the wedding. This was like the fine, like the. The official tie in the knot. Jack, Little Jack was a ring bearer, and Sarah was a flower girl. And Jason's family was especially thrilled to see him and his children so happy. Tracy was there too, and she was so happy that, you know, her brother and his kids were finally seeing having a new mother figure that they felt loved them. But while she was at the wedding, she was talking to the maid of honor, who was Molly's best friend and the maid of honor, Susie. She had been planning this speech, like her maid of honor speech. And so when Tracy, Jason's brother, started talking to her about it, she kind of did a little bit of a double take. Susie was like talking about the speech she was going to give, and she was gushing about what a fairy tale this romance was and how perfect it was that life brought Molly and Jason together. She said, wow, I can't believe that this worked out. Molly being the childhood friend of Jason's first wife, Mags, and the godmother to his children. And Tracy was like, what? Molly being the childhood friend of Jason's first wife and the godmother to Jack and Sarah, that's why she moved to Ireland. Nuh. She moved to Ireland. As their au pair. She found them online.

[Em]

Oh, you remember now? I. Now I'm. No, Now. No, sorry. I promise I'm invested. What are you talking about?

[Christine]

So Molly had moved to Ireland to be the au pair for this family. Okay. But now the maid of honor saying, I can't believe it. Like, after being childhood friends with his first wife for all these years and being their godmother, now she's finally their parent. And Tracy's like, for some reason, they literally just met.

[Em]

In my mind, I just thought they. All of them were true.

[Christine]

It just like, oh, oh, I see.

[Em]

And, like, happens to then also just move to go be the au pair there. I don't know.

[Christine]

Oh, no, no, no. So she's like, wow. Like, I can't believe how life brings people together, you know? She's Mags's best childhood friend, and Tracy, who knew Mags very well, was like, they have never met. Like, in what universe are. Like, what are you talking about? Even more so Tracy was actually the godmother of the children and was like, Hang on.

[Em]

What do you mean, hang on a second?

[Christine]

You're saying Mags, the first wife, made Molly the godmother? Like, they didn't even know each other, you know? And so it's just like this bizarre moment where Tracy's like, well, that's really weird.

[Em]

Are you anyone's godparent or. Or, like, guardian in the event of something?

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

No. Are you Allison and I, to my knowledge, is her. Her brother's kid.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. Yeah. I had to do that paperwork recently for Leona. It's a very weird, very sobering feeling when it's like, now, what if you're both dead? And what if you're both dead and Leona's dead? And I'm like, oh, is it Renee for you guys? Oh, it's my parents. Well, Blaze my parents. Blaze parents. And then, you know, if it's. It trickles down and not feasible, I would assume my brother.

[Em]

Oh, yeah. Why did I forget about Sandy for a second? Sorry.

[Christine]

I mean, I'm not gonna burden Renee with a child. I will burden my brother with one, though.

[Em]

I just assumed as the namesake, I guess.

[Christine]

I. Yeah, yeah, that does make. Sorry.

[Em]

Anyway, carry on.

[Christine]

Okay. Sorry. I just, like, knocked the fluffy part of my microphone off. All right, so I have a picture from the wedding just to give you another idea of, like, this whole fairy tale thing that she's. So now we're getting the idea here that she's kind of spinning different stories to different people. People. And I Tell you this because the maid of honor has this idea that, like, oh, they were best friends growing up, and she was their godmother, so she's known them for. Since they were born. And Tracy's like, that is not true. She literally just moved to Ireland and, like, met them. You know, it's just weird.

[Em]

So weird.

[Christine]

And so according to the rest of the group, it wasn't just Molly's maid of honor who believe the story. All the American wedding guests. So everybody from her side, from Molly's side, believed the same story. And so much so, they believed she went over there to fulfill her duty as a godmother, not for any other reason than that. And then she just happened to, like, fall in love with Jason. And it's just a fairy tale whirlwind, you know?

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

And so just an odd story. So Tracy goes, susie, I don't think you have the right story, actually. Molly came to Ireland and met Jason as an au pair. And Susie's like, wait, what? You know, they're both like, that's not right.

[Em]

Imagine the chatter at the reception hall, and everyone's like, what do you know? What do you know? What do you.

[Christine]

During the cocktail hour when it's like the bride and groom are taking pictures somewhere and everyone's like, it's like, already done.

[Em]

Like, had we discussed this 20 minutes ago? Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Yeah. Oops. Should we have said something?

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

So the wedding went on, you know, of course, Jason's family and friends flew home feeling kind of weird, but, like, okay. And the Corbett seemed happy. They settled into their new lives. Jack and Sarah adjusted very quickly. Sarah was very social, like her father. And so she made a lot of friends. She was talkative, funny. She made a lot of friends. Jack made friends playing sports. They loved North Carolina. They were just so happy. They said they. They drove up to the house for the first time as little kids, and we're like, whoa. Because it was just this, like, big, you know? Yeah, yeah, like this big, like, kind of grandiose, McMansion type house. And they were just like. They felt like it was magical, you know? So Molly became a doting and extremely active mother to Jack and Sarah. She volunteered at their school. She enrolled them in countless hobbies. She organized play dates with new friends. The family was very sociable, and they thrived there for seven whole years. On August 1, 2015, everything fell apart.

[Em]

Wait, have. Have they discussed the groom and the wife, Jason and.

[Christine]

Nope.

[Em]

They just. They are aware, though, that there's, like, some weirdness Right. Or did all.

[Christine]

I don't.

[Em]

Not a single friend.

[Christine]

So I don't think anyone's concerned enough.

[Em]

That's wild because any of the. I would have had 20 family members going, what's going?

[Christine]

I do wonder though, if it's like the international aspect where the other side of the family, like there's just no contact. I mean, there's contact. Right, but like email maybe, but not like you're not all like drinking together and like chatting with the other party. It's sort of like each family seems to have like a story, a version in their mind of what's going on.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And there's just no overlap.

[Em]

Got it.

[Christine]

Is the vibe I get. And they seemed really happy. Right. Like they, the kids were thriving, you know, so the, the, the family in Ireland was like, okay, well, you know, the kids are doing great, they seem happy. So what's it to us? No, we're not going to meddle. So here is. How do I say this? Here's the version of events from one. Speaking of two stories. Speaking of two different stories, here is one version of events. Okay.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

August 1, 2015. Molly's parents decide to take a trip to see her. Tom and Sharon. Those are their names. And Tom is the retired FBI agent. Tom and Sharon were retired. They had no plans that weekend. And so they drove all the way from Tennessee to North Carolina, about a four hour drive. And they just wanted to spend the weekend with their daughter. Jason sat outside on a chair on the driveway, drinking a beer, socializing with the neighbors. The kids were playing in the cul de sac, you know, like running around in the hose. Molly's parents arrived that evening and the family ordered pizza. It was a pleasant but uneventful Saturday night at home. And later, Sharon and Tom went down to the basement, presumably a finished basement. I'm just picturing the most, like, United States, like, you know, cul de sac home I can think of.

[Em]

Sure. Me too.

[Christine]

Went down to the basement and went to sleep. Now, according to Molly's father, Tom, the FBI agent, in the middle of the night, early morning on August 2, he and his wife awoke to the sound of their daughter screaming.

[Em]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

The dogs were barking and there was a loud racket coming from upstairs. Tom rushed upstairs to Molly's side. On the way, he grabbed Jack's little league baseball bat. He ran to the primary bedroom, and inside he said he saw Jason strangling his daughter, Molly, his wife, Molly. Sorry. Tom saw Jason strangling his own daughter. His. You're right. You're Correct.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Tom saw Jason strangling his wife, which.

[Em]

Who is his daughter. Mom.

[Christine]

Sorry. Who is his own. Yeah. I don't know how to say that in there.

[Em]

You're good.

[Christine]

You see, English is hard.

[Em]

Okay, say it in a limerick since you're so good.

[Christine]

Right. I know. I'm like. There should be an easier way for me to say this, but basically, Tom.

[Em]

Once was a wife who's a daughter.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's. It's all very complicated. Not really, but the way I'm making it sound is complicated. Essentially, Tom went to rescue his daughter, see what was going on, saw her being strangled by her husband.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Tom demanded Jason let her go. According to Tom, Jason put Molly in a headlock and began to drag her toward the bathroom, saying, I will kill her.

[Em]

What? What the fuck? And they were, up to this point, like a seemingly lovely, happy family to them, the outside world, I guess. What the. And then immediately I'm questioning, like that. Asthma attack from his previous wife.

[Christine]

Interesting. Okay. Yes. Hold that thought. This all comes out. Yep.

[Em]

What the hell?

[Christine]

Tom tried to move behind Jason to find a vantage point, but Jason was cornered and choking Molly. According to Tom, he was desperate. So he swung the little league back bat. Jason let go of Molly, caught the bat, and being much bigger than Tom, was now on the offensive. So it was, you know, it's not both of them. Yeah. So Molly had that exact same thought and, and, and thought to herself, well, if Jason kills my daddy, he's going to then kill me. And so she made a desperate split second decision to grab a brick that was sitting on the nightstand and we'll get to that and hit Jason in the head. I mean, to me, I was like, well, I don't know. I keep a weird shit at my.

[Em]

I didn't even question it.

[Christine]

I just went, sure, I know.

[Em]

I mean, also, if your dad's in town, I just imagine there's some sort like, side project going on.

[Christine]

There's like, cinder blocks. I know. So when they were like, why would there be that? I'm like, I mean, I don't know. Like, people use bricks for door stops. I don't know. But we do get an explanation for people who are like, no, that's weird. Which it is pretty weird, especially considering the circumstances. It's not necessarily weird unless you use it as a murder weapon. Then suddenly it becomes a little weirder that that was on your nightstand and it just so happened to be there. But we'll get to it. So. So she grabs a brick Hits him in the head. Tom at this point says he regains control of the baseball bat, hits Jason, too. And once he's incapacitated, Tom calls 91 1. He tells the dispatch that Jason is bleeding badly. And he says, I may have killed him.

[Em]

Good. Well, sorry, but, like, what the hell was going on? And that was self defense, babe. Good for you.

[Christine]

When. When paramedics arrived, Molly was attempting CPR on Jason. And when they got Jason into the ambulance, his wounds were too severe to even treat, so he had been killed on site. At the police station, Molly told detectives that Jason had a history of violent and explosive behavior. And she said this time he was drunk when he attacked her in another room. Tom, her dad, corroborated the same story, telling detectives that Jason was wild. It wasn't just, quite, quote, sloppy drunk. He was far too intoxicated and got violent.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

A detective told Molly that Jason didn't survive his injuries, and they asked if she knew how to contact his family. She started to cry and said she was afraid to contact the Corbettes. She said she never legally adopted Sarah and Jack and she thought she might lose custody.

[Em]

Oh, no. I didn't even think about that. And they really love her. And she seems very. So far, are. To my knowledge, she seems very wonderful.

[Christine]

So that is where we're at here. You're exactly in the right spot.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Molly sobbed while the detective told her, yes, it is a very real possibility, because you are not their legal parent, that they will be taken into custody by their next of kin or, you know, the godparents. She told detectives she had endured years of abuse and that she had repeatedly made attempts to adopt her children, but that Jason wouldn't allow her it. She said he knew that she would never leave him and risk losing the children if she had no legal rights as a parent. And so he used that situation to control her.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And they were. They. This is like, seven or eight years into their marriage now. Right. So the kids are, like, in middle school.

[Christine]

Seven years. Yeah. Yeah. So they're. They're actually eight and 10.

[Em]

Oh, right. Because she met them when they were babies. Sorry.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

I'm trying to think. Yeah, they lived there for seven. I know it's confusing. They were eight and 10 when he was killed. So.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

However that timeline works out. But they were. Yes, they lived there several years with her as their. As their primary mother and figure.

[Em]

I'll stop asking questions. I.

[Christine]

No, you can ask any question.

[Em]

I mean, I feel like you're gonna answer it. Anyway, I was gonna say, well, doesn't half the family think that she is the godmother anyway?

[Christine]

Okay, exactly. So. But because she's not legally, like they have legal guardians that are in Ireland, so it's like legally she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. She said she often worried she would never live to see the day that she finally divorced Jason and, and was maybe able to see the kid be the kid's parent in a safer environment. But she never imagined that Jason would end up dead first instead of her. She and Tom would of course, be protected in Jason's killing by self defense laws, as you so astutely mention, especially in North Carolina. You have a right obviously to fight back in self defense. But that didn't really help Molly because if she was going to lose the children anyway, she was like, well, that, that's. I'm still devastated, you know. She couldn't believe that she might lose everything after a desperate battle for her life. But Molly would soon have bigger problems when detectives started asking some questions she didn't quite have answers to.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

The day after Jason died, his sister Tracy, also his best friend, and her husband David rushed to the US because she was his best friend, his sister, and the godmother to these two little kiddos that she loves dearly. So she and David rushed to the US to find out what happened. Tracy was told that Jason and Molly had had an argument. Molly pushed him and Jason fell, hit his head and died. So she's calling Molly. Molly's not answering the phone. Tracy and David stop at Jason's lawyer's office in Ireland on the way to America to pick up his will. And that names them as Jack and Sarah's legal guardians in the event of his death. But when they arrive, Molly refuses to let them near the children. And awkward. They get to the funeral home. And the director of the funeral home tells Tracy that there are express instructions not to allow anyone to see Jason's body.

[Em]

Oh, okay, Tracy, because it's so messed up, right?

[Christine]

No, just express instructions from the family, from the, from the family, from the wife, to not see, to not let anyone in to see the body. And so Tracy had to take legal action to be able to see the body. And she did. She was able to see her brother and she said she was absolutely horrified by his injuries. She later said it's horrendous to see what one human being can inflict on another. Tracy had a different take on Jason's avoidance of allowing Molly to adopt Sarah and Jack. She said, no way in hell was it a tactic to manipulate Molly. There were email records that I've seen that showed Jason had indeed looked into the adoption process. And when he contacted a lawyer to ask what might happen to the children if he and Molly divorced, the lawyer said Molly might get full custody as the mom.

[Em]

Oh, wow.

[Christine]

If she legally adopts these kids and is their mother and you two split, yeah, she can very easily get full custody. And he was like, hell, no. You know, I don't want any. I don't want to that. So he said, I'm not comfortable with that. And Jason learned that a judge could decide, you know, that his children would go to Molly instead of him. And he thought, you know, if we divorce or if I die or something happens to me, I want them to be able to go back to Ireland, you know, and that's. That was his wish. A member of Molly Martin's family, who, like you said, had believed this whole other version of events, claim that Jason applied for permanent residency on, like, using Molly as, I don't know, like a. Like the. The anchor to get here, you know, to stay in the US Indefinitely. And he could have done that through Molly and her family because, of course, they're U.S. citizens. But it turns out he had not at all ever applied for permanent residency. He did not have a plan to stay forever, as far as anyone knew. And even when he did apply for a visa so that they could move to the U. S, he did it through his job because he didn' want it to be tied to another person, you know, like a partner or whatever. And so Jason's intentions seemed to work out like he had hoped. The kids were able to go to Ireland. Tracy and David applied for custody, and on August 18, the judge ruled in their favor. Sarah and Jack had no U.S. citizenship or permanent residency status. Molly, like I said, was not their legal mother. Jason had not changed his will to make Molly their guardian. And the judge said the parents of Sarah and Jack, I'm almost certain, would want their children to be raised in the land of their origin, with the culture, the religion, the customs, and their extended family on both sides prepared to nurture them in a manner that will be in the child's best interest. These children will be returning to Ireland.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

Now, this was very traumatic, as you can imagine.

[Em]

I can't imagine being, like, eight and now both my parents or gone from me in some capacity. I don't have Molly, and I'm going to Ireland to be with family.

[Christine]

I don't really know exactly 100%. Police removed Jack and Sarah from their home in a traumatic scene. Sarah was sobbing, asking where she. Where they were going, like they were holding on to Molly. I mean, this is, like, absolutely traumatizing. Speaking of what's going on in the world today, Molly met with them before they left the country and told them she would see them soon. But before long, Molly and her father were charged with second degree murder.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

Jason's wounds were terrible. He had been struck at least 12 times in the head with the baseball bat, far more than would have been necessary to incapacitate him. His skull had been completely shattered. There was blood spatter, excessive blood spatter in the bedroom, the hallway, and the bathroom, dents along the walls from the baseball bat that it appeared as though Jason had been pursued from one room to another over a period of time and been attacked repeatedly.

[Em]

So this was not the one hit brick situation anymore.

[Christine]

Right.

[Em]

Okay. Oh, my God. Wow.

[Christine]

Plot twist.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

The other interesting thing is that Tom and Molly had not a single scratch on them. So that's weird. Molly. Well, that's not true. Molly did have a small red mark on her neck. And her team, her defense team claimed that this was from someone's fingernail digging into her neck as they held her throat. But that was the only sort of evidence, and it hasn't been proven one way or another. The prosecution on the case also found it odd that Molly's mother reportedly slept through the entire ordeal, as did the kids. Kids. She said that after she woke up to her daughter's screams, Tom said, I'm gonna go upstairs to investigate. And she went back to sleep and wasn't woken up again until a police officer woke her up. And although Molly had told detectives. Do you remember that Jason was not just sloppy drunk, but, like, off his rocker, violent drunk? And Tom said it was unmistakably. He was extremely drunk. He had been drinking beer all day in the driveway. You know, the toxicology report showed that Jason was not drunk at all when he died.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

After having beers with his friends earlier that evening. The alcohol content in his blood was only 0.02 when he died. And the legal driving limit in North Carolina is 0.08. So he had, like, a quarter of even the legal driving limit in his system. Just, like, a little bit. The toxicology report also found trazodone in his system, a sedative medication often used to treat sleep issues. Issues. Now, where did that come from? Well, a nurse practitioner who worked at an urgent care nearby testified that Molly was seen for foot Pain and was prescribed trazodone to help her sleep a couple days before Jason's death. Now, only low levels of Trazodone were detected, but, like, nobody knows how it got into his system. Right.

[Em]

So instead of him being belligerently drunk, he's now maybe being slipped a sedative, which is the exact opposite of everything we've heard, Right? Okay.

[Christine]

Precisely. Sarah, the daughter, would later claim that Molly actually made Jack and her take pills before bed that night so that they would sleep through the incident. And this has not been proven, but this is what Sarah claims happened. The daughter, because it was odd to police as well that nobody woke up, you know, during this, what was like, obviously an extremely loud and violent altercation. So remember Tom's story that he and Sharon didn't have anything better to do, so they decided to drive to North Carolina and hang out with the family for a couple days. Well, detectives soon discovered that they actually did have dinner plans that night with a friend back in Tennessee. And when they talked to the friend, they were like, yeah, it was so weird. They called last minute and said they had to cancel and that they were leaving town. So they just booked it. Canceled their plans and booked it out of town last minute.

[Em]

Interesting.

[Christine]

So now they're questioning Molly and Tom's story. Right. So the question wasn't whether Molly or Tom killed Jason. It was whether it was actually self defense or not. The team handling the case considered money at first as a motive because of Jason's life insurance policy, which was $600,000, and Molly would inherit that along with the house. House. Now, Jason's family believed that Jason was actually preparing to divorce Molly, and that was kind of the trigger that. That caused her to be so enraged. And finding out he wanted to move back to Ireland with the kids is something Molly would not have been able to accept.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

So then the case focus became whether Molly was telling the truth about the nature of their relationship. And this is sort of where it started to get more complicated.

[Em]

Mm.

[Christine]

Molly did her best to establish Jason's history of abuse. Tom, her dad, said that he knew Jason was abusing Molly, but not the extent of the violence until he saw it himself. Molly produced recording devices that she had hidden throughout the house to capture Jason's abusive behavior toward her. Apparently, a family friend was a divorce attorney or family lawyer and advised her to make note of the abuse of any sort of things that happen so that when, you know, push comes to shove, you have, like, the evidence to back up your claims. So she hid these devices around the house. And she wanted not only evidence of the abuse, but also evidence of her parenting so that, like, eventually she could, you know, put in her bid to. To adopt the kids formally.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

She captured recordings of Jason shouting, slamming a kitchen chair. In one of the clips, Sarah. The same clip, Sara. Sarah's crying and Molly and Jack said, you're scaring Sarah. In one recording, Jason said he knew Molly was trying to separate him from his own children, and he told her he would do the same to her. I mean, this is a very toxic, like, I mean, listening to this, I'll be honest, was extremely triggering. Hearing this, like, man screaming at a woman and kids around, it's just like, all very difficult to hear. And while it did show so some verbal abuse, arguably the prosecutor's team questioned whether this is like a full picture because she shared like, two clips and she had been, you know, recording for months. And it's sort of like, well, how do we know what else is on these tapes if she's only picking and choosing what to play? And I, I hate to even say that because it really does sound like I'm sort of covering for an abuser. And I'm really not trying to. I'm just saying this was clearly a very. A very toxic, bad situation that there's nobody from the outside knew.

[Em]

It's. It's an. It would be very interesting and informative.

[Christine]

To hear everything, to hear the context of all of it. Right. And so it's. It's really hard to say. It's sort of like, yeah, that's really shitty and horrible to listen to and perhaps traumatizing for the kids to hear their dad screaming and stuff. But, like, listen, it's not necessarily like. Like a cause to murder someone right out of the blue, you know, it's. It's sort of like now everyone's weighing like, who's worse? Not self defense. Yeah, yeah. Who's in the wrong. Etc. So literally my next line is, the investigation hinged on Molly's word versus Jason's character. So it's like, who's telling the truth? Right. The issue for Molly was that the investigation unfortunately uncovered a history of bizarre lies throughout Molly's life. Life. So kind of her whole story starts to unravel here. Molly's college roommate claimed that Molly had kept a framed photo of her little sister in the house and said that her little sister had died of cancer. And so she had this photo up. According to investigators, the roommate later visited Molly's family home and thought it was strange that there Were no photos of her sister there.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

When she got back to their place, she looked at Molly's photo more closely and notice that in the corner, it said five by seven.

[Em]

Oh, it was fake. Oh, my God. Oh, that's so lazy.

[Christine]

It was the photo that came with the frame.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Huh.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

So now she's been asked about this. Okay. Elle magazine asked Molly, like, what is the deal with this photo your roommate says happened, you know, says that you claimed was your sister. She says there was no frame photo. This is Molly's account. But there were magazine and photo collages, and it was possible she'd said that one of them was her sister who died.

[Em]

Okay, possible or not possible.

[Christine]

The report also quoted an email Molly had once sent to Jason when she was really angry. And it said, other than my sister's death, nothing has ever devastated me so much. Quick side note, Molly never had a sister, let alone one who died. Died?

[Em]

That's silly.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Oo.

[Christine]

So the same reporter questioned Molly about other lies. Friends and neighbors, for example, said that Molly had told people she gave birth to Sarah. And because they looked so similar.

[Em]

What's going on?

[Christine]

People believed her.

[Em]

They do look similar.

[Christine]

Yeah. Molly allegedly described her pregnancy to people excitedly. But Molly said she'd been discussing. Molly told this reporter later she'd been discussing the pregnancy. She not actually giving birth, however. Well, let me give her quote first. She told the reporter, I'm sure there's a possibility that I led people to believe that I was directly related to my children or one of my children, but that is an interpretation. However, apparently she had actually gone so far as to give a lengthy description of how difficult her labor had been to a local Bible study group.

[Em]

Interesting.

[Christine]

So, I mean, and that was specifically childbirth to Sarah, to be clear, because.

[Em]

Had we not heard the wedding situation where, like, there was already. If it weren't for the wedding years ago, where there was already kind of signs of this, then I would be excusing her storytelling now as, like, there must have been some sort of context we're missing on, like, she's in an abusive relationship. And I would have. I would have found a way to be like, oh, this is like a recent thing, so, like, what's going on? But the fact that seven years ago.

[Christine]

Established this, like, pattern.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

It's like, all the way from college, you know, like, through and so. Yeah, exactly. So they're uncovering this pattern. And like, to be clear, a pattern of lying does not make you a murderer and does not mean you were not abused. So I'm not saying that, but it's some context of, oh, this isn't the first time she's made, like, major statements about her life that were completely confabulated. So this pregnancy thing, I mean, that I. I find that pretty troubling. Like, Mags was literally feeding the baby when she died of a tragic asthma attack. And now you're like, oh, I gave birth. And, like, it was such a long childbirth. Like, what the fuck? You know, it's just like, yo. Overstepping, you know? In another call with the reporter, she also said she could have said that Sarah was biologically hers. It's just unclear, like, if she said it or not. Or not. She's. She's basically saying, well, it could have come across that way.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So like I said, a history of strange lies doesn't mean you're lying about, you know, surviving abuse. And she maintained that this was the truth. Now in Ireland, Jack and Sarah, these poor kids, they're struggling to adjust. Jack misses his friends in the U.S. he missed Molly. I mean, she had become their mother. Right. After all. And Sarah, his younger sister, was a lot more sociable, so she made friends pretty easily. But even she struggled because she was really hesitant about trusting a new family. She lost her birth mother. Now she'd lost her father and her other mother.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And now she's in a totally new home across the ocean.

[Em]

And I can't imagine the mixed feelings of, like. Like, if they're hearing stuff about what their stepmom did, it's like, well, she's the only parent I have, so I still want comfort from, like, the person.

[Christine]

Who caused the conflict. Yeah, it's exactly it. And that's what they basically end up wrestling with for the whole. For their whole lives. Yeah. So Tracy and David, they were trained foster parents. So they knew. Really, they knew right away, put these kids in counseling, and thank God, that was a godsend. So these kids go into counseling, they start to, you know, process and heal from. From all of this. And the children were allowed no contact with Molly, but Molly was desperate. You know, when you take something from somebody who's. That, like, they'll do anything. Yeah. I mean, we watch the. We hear these stories of these crimes and stuff. She'll do anything. And so she. She can't handle this. This separation. And she tries everything she can to get a hold of these kids.

[Em]

And she's now just probably scaring them, like.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. And putting them in. In, like, a terrible position. And it's just one of Those, like.

[Em]

If she was trying to kill the husband so then she could go live a happy life with the kids or something. Like, I. It still doesn't work out because now you've just horrified the kids that you want to go make a safe, peaceful life with. Like. And now.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's that safe, peaceful life part that wasn't really part of the agenda.

[Em]

Wasn't clicking. Yeah.

[Christine]

No. So she went on social media, she begged anybody who was affiliated with the kids to pass her love and messages on to Jack and Sarah. Sarah had a friend in school, like in elementary school or middle school that, that Molly reached out to this child to say, can you talk to Molly for me? Like, she reached out to this child to be like, tell Molly I love her. And Sarah was like, people were avoiding us at school. They were like, you know, of course, like they're. They have this weird story. This. They're all over the news. I mean, Molly just won't let it rest. Reporters were hounding the house and, and the children's families. Sarah and Jack both remember her. Molly trying to pay a plane to fly a banner over the school to say how much she loved. Yeah. Yes, literally. That's nutty. Tracy and David, the parents were pissed. They just want these kids to have some safety and normaly and like be. Feel loved and feel safe and the stability is just not happening here. Jack feels like he wants his life back in the U.S. he's like completely lost. He. He wants Molly back even though he's conflicted. And so In January of 2016, Jack secretly calls Molly and leaves a voicemail. P says, hi mom, this is Jack. This cannot go public. I miss you and I love you. Keep fighting really hard. I want to know how you are. I love you so much. Call me pretty please. The voicemail was immediately released to the media, of course, and plastered everywhere, of course.

[Em]

And also like a little kid saying this can't go out to the public. Like that just shows you that like he's been and warned of like everyone's watching.

[Christine]

Yeah. And he's scared. Exactly. And then, and then this. There it is out in the public. So Jack was devastated. He felt completely betrayed by Molly. And that's when he started to really like process maybe what had actually happened. He started to read into the details and he gained a sort of a new perspective and had to kind of come to grip with the fact that, that Molly and Tom might not have killed his father in self defense. What's worse is that he felt like he had helped them get Away with the murder because in 2015, three days after Jason was killed, Jack and Sarah were interviewed at a child advocacy center. And when interviewed, Jack said, my aunt and uncle from my dad's side are trying to take me away from my mom.

[Em]

Yeah, I can see the guilt forming. It's not his fault, but, you know, I could see feeling guilty.

[Christine]

Yeah. Jack told the child interview specialist that Sarah had woken Molly and Jason up because she had a nightmare. And Jason was angry about being woken up, so he attacked Molly. Jack said, quote, mom let out a scream, and my grandpa came up and started to hit him with a bat. And then my dad grabbed hold of the bat and hit my grandpa with a bat. When the specialist asked Jack how he knew all of this, he said that Molly had told him.

[Em]

Him. Oh. First of all, why would you tell your kid that?

[Christine]

To get them to lie.

[Em]

I know, but I mean, like, if you were.

[Christine]

Exactly. If that were real. Right, exactly. Both children said that Jason was often angry for no apparent reason and that he hit Molly. Jack said he would physically and verbally hurt my mom. And investigators were like, kids don't talk that way. They don't say he would physically and verbally.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

Hurt my mom. Like, it. The. The way that he phrased a lot of the sentences obviously put up alarm bells. Yeah. It felt a little bit like, like coached. When repeatedly questioned about where the children got their information about their parents relationship, they both said Molly was the source of all the information they had about their parents relationship. The children also said that Molly's mom, their grandma, was so worried about their dad's behavior that she wrote her phone number on the bottom of a Russian nesting doll so that the kids could call her if they needed help.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

Now, months later in Ireland, and Jack called or told his adoptive parents to call the prosecutor's office investigators and say, I lied. It was all I want to recant.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

What I said.

[Em]

And how old is he?

[Christine]

Like 10. Oh, I know, It's.

[Em]

You can tell already. He's like having to grow up way too fast.

[Christine]

Talk about being right. Exactly. Talk about being thrown into, like, crisis after crisis that no person, let alone child, should have to go through.

[Em]

Through.

[Christine]

So he call, he tells David and Tracy that he wants to recant. And he says Molly begged him to lie for her. He said Molly told him if he didn't lie in the interview at the Child Advocacy center, he would never see her again. This is how she controlled them. Right. She said, I'm your own. I'm the only parent you have Left. You know, if you want to stay.

[Em]

Here, well, yeah, that's going to work.

[Christine]

With me and your friends and your family and your house. House. Then you better say xyz. And they did so in a video conference call to the prosecutor's office, Jack told them that Molly had made up stories of abuse and that she was crying when she told him that he had to tell these stories too if he wanted to stay with her. He said he didn't know what was happening and that he agreed to lie for her because he was 10 years old. With Jack's statement, the prosecution was able to convince the judge to deem the video recordings of the interview inadmissible. So these videos of Jack and Sarah saying, he hit my mom, they took all of that out? Because it was no longer admissible, the children's statements about Jason's abuse could not be used by the defense. And that was a definitely a big hit to their case. As time went on, little Sarah, who was 8, she's also unraveling her memories and relationship with Molly, and it's not good.

[Em]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. So she remembers a time that she had asked, for example, this is just one example, to join the T ball team because her dad was the coach. And she was like, oh, I wanted to be on his team. And, like, it would be easy because he's already going there. And apparently Molly freaked the out. She was driving the car and she was like, why don't you love me? Why would you rather spend time with your dad? Like, got really possessive, said, why don't you love me? Was crying, and Sarah was confused, but she said she just felt terrible for hurting Molly and was like, I don't want to hurt her feelings, you know, I mean, this just emotional manipulation. Sarah would later tell many more stories in her victim impact statement, which I will get to, but in any case, it was super hard for Jack and Sarah to, like, reconcile, like, their only remaining mother figure at this point with, like, the person who took away their father. You know, I mean, it's just. How could you handle that at eight years? Yeah, you can't. Yeah. Jack said that when they said goodbye to Molly, he was terrified because, quote, he was a 10 year old kid and this was the only person who'd been there every single day.

[Em]

Mm.

[Christine]

It's like all you'd ever known of a family, you know?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, no known, at least in recent childhood years since he was a little kid. Sarah, recalling the goodbye, said, I'm saying goodbye to someone who had been my mom for as Long as I can remember. I mean, since she was a year old.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And she said, I loved Molly. But Jack said that while Sarah was Molly's golden child, even, you know, despite her stories, he was constantly fighting for Molly's love. And this part made me really, really sad. Dad. Jason once left on a business trip, for example, and Jack said goodbye and that he loved his dad and he would miss him. As soon as Jason left, Molly chased Jack up to his bedroom, tore all of his clothes out of the dresser, flipped his bed, kicked over his desk. She took pictures of Mags, their biological mom, and removed them from their bedrooms.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Didn't want her anywhere near kids. Kids didn't want her to even be mentioned around her. Molly hid Jack's photo of Mags that he had in their room. So Jack now is. Is recanting his statement. He's. He's finally getting the chance to set the record straight. And this, of course, is a huge blow to the defense. Molly's uncle was outraged. He said in an interview that Jack's recantation interview looked rehearsed, as if he had been coached. And he, Tom, the FBI agent, the dad said, sarah and Jack appear to be brainwashed.

[Em]

Okay with this.

[Christine]

Okay. You literally murdered their dad. Whatever. Several of the Corbett's neighbors testified that they believe Jason was abusing Molly. One neighbor testified she received a call in the middle of the night from Molly's phone and she could hear Jason and Molly screaming. And Molly said, please stop. Don't do this to us. The neighbor said that when she asked Molly about it later, Molly said, oh, I didn't realize I had called you by accident.

[Em]

She was already talk about an alibi.

[Christine]

It seems she had been putting recording devices. She was telling neighbors, like, how do I make sure I get the kids? I mean, and why wouldn't you believe a woman telling you her husband's abusing her? Right? Like, of course that's. Why would you make that up, you know? So despite these testimonies, the jury did not believe there was sufficient evidence proving a history of abuse that was. Would explain the excessive violence the night Jason died. Especially if he wasn't drinking, you know, or wasn't drunk. So members of the jury also didn't understand about the brick on the nightstand. They were like, can we figure out why that was there? That was explained away. Jack said that he and Molly had made plans to decorate the brick for the garden, but that it was supposed to rain, so she had brought it inside. But it's like, but you brought A brick to your nightstand the days before leading up to your husband's murder?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I don't know. It's just weird.

[Em]

That's a weird word. That's. That's. That could go either way, but I could. But it also sounds like, oh, I just want the weapon available for when I do this.

[Christine]

It's all the timing, right? Like, Trazodone and a brick on the nightstand that all within a few days of the. I mean, again, it could just be. Be. It's.

[Em]

Did you mention already, like, Tom's side of everything?

[Christine]

Yeah. So that original story that he was asleep with his wife downstairs and he heard Molly and he walked in and his daughter was being. Yeah, that was his version of events.

[Em]

No, no, I'm saying, like, did you. Did you get to the part where, like, where we find out why. Why they came into town? I know, like, they left unexpectedly, last minute. But, like. Like, it'd be one thing for her to be, like, kind of off her rocker and doing this, but, like, to have your dad come in, like, was. Did she just call him and say, he's hitting me?

[Christine]

I think so.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

I think.

[Em]

How else do you get an FBI agent on your side to do that?

[Christine]

Right? I think she just told him, like, hey, I'm being abused by my husband and you need to come. And of course he drops everything. They come over, who knows what happened, you know, and he said, I mean, I knew something was wrong. I didn't know how bad it was, you know, so he's trying to protect his daughter. It's just all like.

[Em]

Also, that's so sad that, like, if he's. If he thinks that he's doing this to an innocent man or to a not so innocent man in his head defending his daughter, and now he's on the line for maybe going to jail for the rest of his life.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Em]

And she was just willing to do that to her own father. Like, that's.

[Christine]

So she claims that that was the worst part. Like, I don't want my dad to go away for life.

[Em]

But it's what you think was gonna happen. You. You create. You made him into an accomplice.

[Christine]

Us. Yeah. Yeah. At least that's how the story goes. Cuz she claims, no, this was all just by chance, but it's sort of like. Well, doesn't add up. Doesn't add up. So the jury declared Tom and Molly guilty of second. Second degree murder, and both were sentenced to 20 to 25 years in prison. Molly cried. She said she wished she had never screamed. That night she said if she died, at least her father would still be free. 3. Okay, noise me for some reason because.

[Em]

I'm like, it annoys me too.

[Christine]

Tom was in his 60s at this point and she's like, I can't believe I ruined his life. However, in Ireland, this was a huge relief to Jack and Sarah, who felt they could finally begin to move on now that their father had some sort of justice, you know, and they had some closure. Sarah said it was the first time in a long time she felt free. Sarah and Jack's cousins embrace them as siblings. They, they really, this family, like became this tight knit unit. It's just really beautiful. Like they're so close and so bonded and they call them mom and dad and like, it's just, I'm just so happy. It could have turned out so much worse. But Tracy and David like took them in and the, their cousins took them in as siblings. And David even said in an interview that he still remembers the first time Jack called him dad. And it was like, so profound and like, yeah, life changing and, and the family is just super, super tight knit. Meanwhile, in the U.S. molly's legal team is like trying to appeal this, this sentence. They present it to the appeals court with Sarah and Jack's interviews. They say, we want, we want these back into the record. We want, we want this to be admissible evidence that the kids are saying they've seen their dad hit Molly. They also found a medical record from a doctor's visit just weeks before Jason's death. And Jason had gone into complaint of dizziness and feeling faint. And the doc, the doctor noted that he had not been taking his thyroid medication regularly and wrote, jason also has been more stressed and angry lately for no reason. So the defense took this and said, well, he was clearly like unusually angry and violent in the days leading to his death. But that, it feels like a stretch.

[Em]

To me also, like when, if he wasn't taking his thyroid medication, then he would be more angry than usual. Like, you have like you're hormonal, right?

[Christine]

Yeah. So, but they're saying, so see, that's why he's doing, that's why he was so mad that he went off, you know, that's why he was so mad that he tried to kill her, you know, and it was like, well, I don't know that that's a direct correlation. But the defense believed it was. The prosecution, meanwhile, had presented evidence of blood spatter on Tom's boxers, which, you know, blood spatter evidence is kind of like, like Was she washing? Yeah. They said the angle of the spatter proved Jason was on the floor while Tom was standing over him, hitting him with the baseball bat. But the blood spatter wasn't actually tested, so they made that inadmissible. The courts also agreed that actually the children's interviews should be included as evidence, and they overturned Tom and Molly's convictions. Oh, so now Molly and Tom are released pending a new trial, and the Corvettes are horrified. Yeah, they're like, we finally moved on and feel safe and at peace and no longer. Now Jack felt immense guilt because now his statements are being used in the trial to try and bolster, you know, the defense. And he said, I was scared and afraid and I was so young. And Sarah felt the same shame because she had lied. She said, I described someone that was the complete opposite of my dad bad. So, like in. Because she had told them to lie. So they said, he's mean, he's angry.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

He hits the Molly. And she's like, none of that was true. We were just told. We coerced into saying it. She said she lied to stay with Molly because she had already lost everyone else. So in a tearful video that Sarah took of herself at the news of Molly and Tom's release, she said, that was not fair. They were free. She couldn't focus on her life. There was no set trial date. So she felt like. Like she was just in stasis, like she couldn't look toward an end goal. I'm gonna send you a picture from the trial of Molly and her father Tom. There they are. So in 2023, the Corvettes flew to the US again for the pre trial hearing. And this is the first time Sarah and Jack had seen the Martins in eight years. So. So 2023, Sarah walks into the hearing and she says that Molly's family wouldn't even look at her. And she said in that moment she realized, I am not afraid of these people. I'm not the one who should be afraid. I did nothing wrong. I lied. That's true. But I was 8.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And it's like. Yes.

[Em]

And also, did you really lie or were you just. You were told what to say? Right.

[Christine]

It's not even lying. Exactly. It's like you were just scripted, you know, like that's. It's not right. Exactly. Exactly. Sarah and Jack held firm. They never ever saw their father hit or hurt Molly in any way. Molly, meanwhile, maintained that Jason abused her throughout their marriage and that she was heartbroken that Sarah and Jack seemed to need to Believe otherwise.

[Em]

No. With this. Okay.

[Christine]

Makes me crazy also, how old are they now in. In 20, 23, 17 and 19.

[Em]

Oh my God. Like, so they. They've never gotten to be at peace with this.

[Christine]

They have their entire childhood. I mean, think of Sarah and can I like, make another point that I don't think I include in the notes, but that really is that Sarah had to live with the fact that. So the stories go, when she was 12 weeks old, her mother was feeding her and had an asthma attack and died.

[Em]

Oh my God.

[Christine]

When she's however old, 8 her, she wakes up in the middle of the night from a nightmare and her dad gets so angry that he kills Molly. So like, she's always at the center of this as like the catalyst and she's like, do you know how hard it is for people to be like, well, you are the one that started both of these horrific events.

[Em]

You know, like somehow you're a main character character in this when you've done triggered this situation.

[Christine]

Yeah. And it's like, I would be so.

[Em]

Scared to have anyone close to me because I'd be like, correct.

[Christine]

Right.

[Em]

At any moment you might die. Because that seems to be the M.O. but also like, I can't imagine having being close to somebody and then like, oh, well, last time I was close to somebody, I called the mom and then they killed my dad. So like, exactly.

[Christine]

And like, the last time someone was here, they just dropped dead in front of me while I was a baby. Yeah. It's just like, God, the connection is so, so visceral. And the fact that like, they keep framing it as, oh, this happened because he got so angry in the middle of the night. And it also, like, the.

[Em]

Before any of this happened with her dad and her stepmom, she was still a probably. I know, like, it obviously isn't true, but as a child, there's no way it didn't enter her mind that like, she's the reason her mom's dead.

[Christine]

Of course. I mean, we. Every YA book we've ever read. Right. It's like, like a kid with a parent who died who feels this like, burden of guilt, you know, Especially if.

[Em]

It'S the last thing she did. She was with you and now she's done. Like, there's no way you didn't.

[Christine]

And it's getting framed like that. Exactly. And she's a kid. It's like, that is not a safe thing to put in a kid's head.

[Em]

No. And like. And why is this trial taking so long? Like, why wasn't this.

[Christine]

I mean, why are there multiple of them?

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

I don't know. Tom said in this trial, this new trial, that he had no regrets about his actions and that watching Jason strangling Molly was the worst thing a father could see. The Martin's defense team also began to cast out on the circumstances of Mags's death. The first wife, they said they believe Jason strangled her as well and then blamed it on an asthma attack. Tom said that he met Mags's parents. So this is Tom, Molly's dad. He said that he met Mags's parents when they visited the US to see the grandkids. And he claims that Mags's father, Michael, was. First of all, he called him poorly educated and hard to understand, which, like, go yourself.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

Second of all, he said he asked what Michael thought of Jason, and Michael said, I think he killed my daughter. As in Mags.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

Now, when Mags father heard this, he was livid. Mags's parents were absolutely outraged because the night Mags died, Catherine, her sister, had witnessed this. Like, she had witnessed Jason doing everything, having, like, this complete breakdown, trying to save her. Max's mother, Marion, said, until the day I die, how would I ever believe Jason killed my daughter? They had a beautiful relationship. And Michael, her husband, loved Jason. He was our son.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And so, like, the fact that. That they're still saying, like, that Tom's saying, oh, he was just this uneducated guy, but he said that he. That he thinks sick Jason killed his daughter. And they were like, literally never would ever think that nor say it.

[Em]

Yeah. And so, I mean, I can't imagine also being the sister and now hearing like, oh, everything you saw was wrong, too.

[Christine]

Like, right, right, right. Like you're all covering up for a murderer and it's like, what the fuck? Like, let us grieve in peace. This isn't even a. You know. And Michael, the. The father who's uneducated and hard to understand, he made an official, written. Written statement denying having ever told Tom anything like that he thought Jason killed Mags. Just absolutely furious. Although Tom and Molly maintained their innocence, neither wanted to risk going to trial a second time. So Molly was especially worried about Tom, her dad, spending the rest of his life in prison. So instead of going to trial again, they decided to. To agree to a plea deal. Molly pleaded no contest to voluntary manslaughter. And no contest means you're accepting the conviction, but you're avoiding a factual admission of guilt. So you're like, I'll take the punishment, but I'm not saying I did it. Meanwhile, Tom pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter, saying, yes, I did commit a crime, but like for, you know, manslaughter, like for a reason, as part of some other, you know, motive. So in November 2023, Jack, now 19, and Sarah 17, they read their victim impact statements at the sentencing. Both statements, I read both of them. They're devastating, but, like, really powerful. Sarah's is longer and more detailed and she is. She definitely has a way with words. I'm gonna read a segment here. It just pictures like, or it paints a, like a very clear picture of kind of. Of basically. They use this as the first time they got to tell their side.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Of their childhood. You know, it's like all these people are arguing, was their dad a good guy? Was their mom a good guy? Was who was killed who? And she's like, let me tell you my side. So this is. It's a little bit long, but I'm going to read an excerpt here. My name is Sarah. My dad explained to me that my name means princess. He would call me his little princess. He would wrap me in his hugs, read to me, joke with me. And I remember the feeling of being so safe and confused. Content. Sitting inside of this courtroom has been a traumatic experience. Listening to adults twist and manipulate the words I said out of fear as an 8 year old child has been extremely difficult. Your honor, I would like to give you an example of how our truth is being twisted. When Ms. Shannon Grubb, who's just a witness, testified about the park incident where I had no shoes going to school, there was no fight with my dad. My dad had already gone to work well before we got up for school. School. Molly had beaten Jack again. And that is why I was hysterical. Molly had left Jack at home instead of bringing him to school too. She left in such anger, she forgot my shoes. I didn't want Molly to go home on her own as I was afraid of what she would do to Jack if I wasn't there to stand up for him. This is an example of how the true situations of my life have been manipulated. You can take any story the defense have created and I can tell you the true horror of what actually happened. Happened.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

And I gotta say, these two, Molly and Tom, spin quite a tale. They're really convincing. I don't know, but I'm like, Sarah, I believe Sarah.

[Em]

I believe Sarah.

[Christine]

Sarah also confirmed the long held suspicion that Molly had told Jack and her from very early on that their father had killed their mother. Yeah.

[Em]

Oh my God. I don't even. So I don't even know what work you have to do in therapy to.

[Christine]

Unpack that and to try and untangle that and to.

[Em]

And to relearn a new perspective on someone who's no longer here.

[Christine]

Correct. So one of the quotes was, Sarah said, when I was five years old, Molly Martens began her mind games. What kind of mother tells a five year old girl that her father killed her birth mom? She continued, when I was six years old, Molly would sit in the bath for hours. She hit herself with a hairbrush and had me take pictures. What kind of mother hides recording devices all over the house? When I was 7, Molly told me I was allergic to gluten and dairy, so all I could eat was veg. I'm not allergic to any food groups. Her way of punishment was starvation. She just wouldn't feed us if we did something wrong, like, for example, not swimming fast enough in our our heat. She would stop speaking to us or turn to violence. I treasured a framed photograph that my dad got me of him and my birth mom, Mags on their wedding day. Molly threw it down the stairs and screamed at me that she is dead. I'm your mother. That woman is dead. I was 7 years old when my dad came home and saw the broken glass and me trying to clean it up. I told him that I tripped. He finished cleaning it up and gave me a hug. That's just how kind he was. Was. She broke my family down piece by piece and then killed my dad with no remorse. And so that is the statement she gave. There's one more line I want to read which is in relation to this post that Molly had written in 2015. Remember how I said she was all over social media trying to get their attention? She had actually like shared all these childhood like drawings and notes publicly that the kids had made for her to be like, look how much they love and miss me. And it's. And it's like super icky. So in 2015, Molly had posted a message to Jack and Sarah on Facebook that said, we shared our lives and I was the person chosen to be your mom. I was the person you called mom for eight years. You will always be my children.

[Em]

Who?

[Christine]

In Sarah's victim impact statement, she said, I can stand here today and say I do not love Molly and she is not my mother.

[Em]

That's right, girl.

[Christine]

That's right. Molly and Tom were finally sentenced to 51 to 74 months in prison, including time search served and because they'd already served 44 months in prison. They now only had seven months left to serve.

[Em]

Are you kidding me?

[Christine]

So they were released in June of 2024.

[Em]

Are you, first of all, that sick? Second of all, the amount of time that there were. There were court hearings all the way and. Or court proceedings all the way through 2023. Couldn't you have just when the kids were still 8 years old, made them go to jail for seven months and then leave them the alone? So by 10, maybe not.

[Christine]

It's like picking the scab over and over and making it. It feels like reliving it mentally.

[Em]

The kids were in jail longer than they were physically in jail.

[Christine]

Oh, for sure. And they're flying. They're having to fly to the United States and like, testify and make statements and like, at the end of the day, they don't. They get out in a few months, you know, so it's like, has that.

[Em]

Woman tried to like, talk to them since? And she's.

[Christine]

She has no. She's not allowed to communicate with them.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And. And I will say all of them, at least most of them that I've mentioned, were interviewed in the Netflix documentary A Deadly American Marriage. And so we had Molly, we had Tom, we had Sarah, we had Jack, we had Tracy. We had all these people coming forward to tell their side of the story, which was really interesting. Sarah especially was very outspoken on this documentary. And otherwise she just felt like she had been too young to self advocate, you know, back in the day. And now she wants to take the opportunity to really tell her story. And like I said, she has a way with words. She actually wrote a. A children's book when she was, I think like 13 or 14.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

I know about loss. Oh, and the book is called Let Me Find It. She wrote a book, a children's book on grief and loss called Noodle Loses dad.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

14 years old. I know. She also wrote a memoir published this past February 2025, called A Time for Truth. My Father Jason and My Search for Justice and Healing.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

So just really a powerhouse for what? Jack, for his part, does not really like to speak about this. I think he's just a more introverted, like, doesn't want to go there, which I can totally respect. He was in the interview or in the documentary, which I've heard is like a rare thing. He doesn't usually, you know, he's not as like, vocal about it as his sister. So what we know of Molly, you're asking, you know, has she gotten in Touch. Reportedly, she moved to Tennessee to be near her family. Tom, her dad, returned home to Tennessee as well. Well, both spoke in the same documentary. They maintain their version of events. And I mean, like I said, they. They weave a convincing tale because you really do start to feel like, oh, you know, with the. The recordings of him screaming and stuff. And then it just. At the end, you're like, that doesn't add up, though. Like, it's just something's wrong. And then with the kids testimony, it's like, well, there you have it, you know, I don't know, man. So just. Jason's remains were returned to Ireland in 2015, where his children were able to attend his fun funeral with the rest of his family. Here's a picture of the two of them in the documentary. And it's. It's. I just send it because it's kind of cool to see them as kids and now as adults finally being able to, wow, share what happened. Jack kind of avoids public attention as far as speaking out. Like I said. Here's some photos of them. I think Sarah's process has been much more like writing and speaking. She's a motivational speaker.

[Em]

Well, she was also more of a. An extrovert, and he was more of an introvert to begin with. Right?

[Christine]

Yes, that's true. I hadn't even put that together. Yeah, she was much more of a sociable person or social person. So he lives a private life as a singer, songwriter. He studies music. Yeah. And Sarah, like I said, wrote a memoir. Children's book. Both children and Jason's entire family are dedicated to keeping their dad's memory alive. The version that they say is the truth, not the one that. That Molly has kind of painted all over the media. And that is the story of Jason Corbett's murder or death, depending on whom you ask.

[Em]

I think we are all in agreement.

[Christine]

I mean, maybe not, but I think I sure am.

[Em]

You and I are on the same page.

[Christine]

I sure am. It's watching these kids tell their stories and reading the emails. Also, between the two, I'm like, this is messy. Be.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

I'm not saying he was a perfect guy by any means. You know, I mean, like I said, that screaming audio, I had to, like, skip it. I was like, this is really upsetting. I didn't skip it. I listened to it. But it was like, very distressing.

[Em]

But, like, didn't deserve to die.

[Christine]

Doesn't mean bash your head in in the middle of the night for no reason and follow him down the hallway. You know what I Mean, like, it's just. It doesn't add up.

[Em]

No, I. I can't imagine that's a. And also, like, the stepmom, it's kind of giving a little munch housing by proxy to me.

[Christine]

It feels very toxic. Like she has these ulterior motives. She's obsessed with these kids.

[Em]

Well, she needs them so badly.

[Christine]

Yes, exactly. She's lying about, like, birthing them. She's like.

[Em]

Yeah, it feels a little Gypsy Rose.

[Christine]

Yeah. And. Right. Like, keeping them under her thumb. And, you know, if the abuse allegations against her are true, then, like, like. Yeah, that's some, like, abusive parental.

[Em]

Yowza. That was. And what's Jack Corbett? That's the musician now.

[Christine]

Yeah, he's a musician. I believe also there's a Jack Corbett, because I looked him up and there was another Jack Corbett who does something different.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Who's also on the Internet, so.

[Em]

Well, I want to go check out his music. I also want to find that book, the books that she wrote.

[Christine]

Yeah. I did add it to my Goodreads, I believe. So if anyone wants to go there and follow it. Yeah, I would like to read it as well. I'm curious. So, yeah, that's the story. And sorry for bombing everyone out again, but I will say that for our yappy hour, I do still have. Have the beautiful weekly horror movie double feature that you created. Two week. You're like, what are you talking about?

[Em]

I totally forgot about this.

[Christine]

It's called Move Over, Elvira. And you and I made something. You are the mastermind behind it. The Lunar Lounge.

[Em]

Oh, I kind of remember this. Something about werewolves.

[Christine]

Stage name was Harry Howoodini.

[Em]

Oh, my God. So we're gonna talk about this at the.

[Christine]

Yeah. I'm gonna read this to you because you clearly don't remember, and I'm excited.

[Em]

All right.

[Christine]

To tell you what your business plan is.

[Em]

Well. Oh, my business plan. Well, if for some reason everybody wants to go hear what my business plan with the who. How old Dinies. Is.

[Christine]

Don't act like you haven't been dreaming about it every night.

[Em]

I. I remember something about a movie theater. We'll.

[Christine]

We'll. Yes.

[Em]

We'll all learn about it together in Patreon.

[Christine]

Also, we can now, because now these episodes are on Spotify as well. Apple podcasts. You can kind of access them any anywhere. They're just the bonus Yappy hours. And they're linked to each episode. So if you see that, come check.

[Em]

And that's why we drink.