E440 WeWorking with Ghosts and Devil’s Lettuce Friend Tattoos

Summary

Podcast Summary: "And That's Why We Drink" Episode E440 – WeWorking with Ghosts and Devil’s Lettuce Friend Tattoos

Release Date: July 13, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Introduction

In Episode E440 of "And That's Why We Drink," hosts Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz delve deep into a chilling blend of true crime and paranormal activity, all while maintaining their signature humor and camaraderie. The episode intertwines personal anecdotes, ghost-hunting adventures, and the tragic story of Amy Gellert, creating a captivating narrative that keeps listeners engaged from start to finish.

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Personal Banter and Tour Updates (02:01 – 12:09)

The episode kicks off with the hosts engaging in their usual light-hearted conversation, discussing personal experiences related to art and decor in hotel rooms. Em shares a humorous story about framing a painting, highlighting their contrasting tastes:

• Em: “I just hung her up. This is of farm.” (02:08)
• Christine: “It's beautiful. I love that the frame matches the walls.” (03:00)

Their discussion shifts to the frustrations of scheduling tours, with Christine expressing irritation over fans' confusion about their tour locations:

• Christine: “Remember when we'd go somewhere, and then like a week later, people would ask why we never come to Florida?” (10:18)
• Em: “We haven't forgotten you, hysterectomy girl. We have talked about you often.” (11:15)

They also touch upon the dynamics of touring, sharing anecdotes about sharing hotel rooms and occasionally reverting to sibling-like bickering:

• Christine: “It's always us bickering about what to watch on TV.” (12:11)
• Em: “So is it… how much of it do you just revert back to being like little kids?” (12:27)

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Exploring "Designing Scents" and Social Media Trends (04:25 – 07:09)

Christine and Em discuss the bizarre trends on TikTok, specifically parody makeover shows that mimic the style of "Extreme Home Makeover" but with humorous, low-budget results:

• Christine: “It's like the opposite but still bad of Extreme Home Makeover.” (05:24)
• Em: “They bought plates from the dollar store and glued them on the wall to make 3D art.” (05:51)

They express amusement and slight horror at the absurdity of these transformations, emphasizing the disconnect between intention and execution.

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Ghost Hunting at the Dunhill Hotel (25:10 – 60:36)

Em takes the lead in an immersive ghost-hunting segment at the Dunhill Hotel in Charlotte, North Carolina. He meticulously narrates the hotel's haunted history, detailing its origins, previous tragedies, and reported paranormal activities.

Hotel History and Hauntings

• Em: “In 1926, the Dunhill Hotel, originally known as Mayfair Manor, opened just two weeks after the stock market crash.” (28:07)
• Christine: “It's on all the listicles.” (42:56)

Em outlines the series of events that have contributed to the hotel's haunted reputation, including multiple suicides and unexplained phenomena like eerie noises, apparitions, and items moving autonomously.

Live Investigation in Room 906

Em books a stay in the most haunted room, 906, and invites Christine to observe his experience:

• Em: “I'm currently in room 906.” (43:57)
• Christine: “This is your moment, Dusty.” (45:00)

During his stay, Em documents various ghostly activities, attempting to capture evidence on camera. They discuss specific ghostly entities like “Dusty,” the main ghost rumored to haunt the hotel, and share stories from hotel staff and previous guests about their encounters.

Notable Quotes and Incidents

• Em: “People would hear noises in empty rooms. They would see apparitions throughout the building.” (35:21)
• Christine: “If the pillows or curtains move, that's where my eyes have been.” (45:51)

The segment is filled with suspense as Em recounts vivid descriptions of paranormal events, enhancing the eerie atmosphere for listeners.

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The Tragic Case of Amy Gellert (64:55 – 123:12)

Transitioning from ghost stories to true crime, Christine narrates the heartbreaking story of Amy Gellert, providing a detailed account of her life, struggles, and untimely death.

Early Life and Struggles (64:55 – 77:40)

Amy Gellert, born in 1973, faced numerous challenges from a young age, including her parents' divorce and a severe bout of encephalitis that left her with learning disabilities. Despite her struggles, Amy remained a beloved figure among her friends:

• Amy's Best Friend, Andrea Odell: “Amy was the most special person I'd ever met. She was a very unique and good friend.”
• Ryan (Amy’s Brother): “Amy was the perfect friend and the perfect sister.” (66:30)

Tragic Night and Investigation (77:40 – 118:32)

Christine delves into the events of March 20, 1994, when Amy was brutally attacked and killed during a burglary at her parents' home. She provides a minute-by-minute recount of the crime, the aftermath, and the subsequent investigation:

• Christine: “Amy's parents didn't even know she was home. They found out she was dead when the police arrived after an attack.” (86:57)

The investigation faces numerous dead ends, with primary suspects like Scott Manley and Dominic Kanika failing to provide concrete evidence linking them to the crime. Despite relentless efforts, the case remains unsolved, leaving Amy's family in perpetual grief.

Impact and Ongoing Mystery

Amy's death profoundly affected her family, leading to long-term trauma and a relentless pursuit for answers. Christine emphasizes the family's hope for justice and the closure of the cold case:

• Bunny (Amy’s Mother): “I know where Amy is, and that brings me peace.” (117:51)
• Amy's Brother, Mark: “Not a single day goes by that we don't think about Amy.” (117:24)

The segment concludes with a call to action for listeners to assist in solving the case, providing resources for tips and encouraging public awareness.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts (123:12 – End)

As the episode draws to a close, Christine and Em reflect on the intense and emotional stories they've shared. They emphasize the importance of storytelling in keeping memories alive and seeking justice for the unheard.

• Christine: “It's always hard to hear that a family doesn't have answers yet.” (121:44)
• Em: “Good story, but, wow, talk about traumatic.” (123:12)

They invite listeners to join their Yappy Hour sessions for lighter discussions and community engagement, reinforcing the podcast's blend of serious content with moments of levity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Em on ZipRecruiter (00:00):

   “With ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.”

2. Christine on Artwork (02:35):

   “I cut it in half because it was like… like a Matisse.”

3. Em on Family Dynamics (12:38):

   “We think we're on the same team now, us against the world.”

4. Em Summoning Ghosts (45:59):

   “This is your moment, Dusty.”

5. Christine on Amy’s Story (117:51):

   “We wouldn't want to get over Amy.”

6. Em on Coping with Trauma (121:48):

   “I would constantly be petrified.”

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Key Takeaways

• Blend of True Crime and Paranormal: The episode masterfully intertwines ghost-hunting adventures with the deeply emotional true crime story of Amy Gellert, offering listeners a multifaceted narrative experience.

• Personal Connections: Christine and Em's candid discussions about their personal lives and relationships add depth to the episode, making the content relatable and engaging.

• Emphasis on Storytelling: The hosts highlight the importance of sharing stories to honor memories and seek justice, reinforcing the podcast's mission to blend chilling tales with community support.

• Engagement with Audience: Through calls to action and invitations to Yappy Hour sessions, the hosts foster a sense of community and encourage listener participation.

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For more chilling stories and engaging discussions, tune into "And That's Why We Drink" every Sunday. Don’t forget to follow the podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite platform!

Transcript

[Em]

We talk about it every time, folks. We love Eva. We love that we were able to find her so quickly. We were desperately. We were drowning when we needed somebody to come in, help us out. At the time, it was just emails and social media, and it very quickly turned into like, we need you to go ghost hunting in the basement. Do you mind, man? No one like Eva. And we wouldn't have found her if it weren't for ZipRecruiter. Typically, you don't associate speed with quality, but in her case, we were able to find her in like 30 seconds. It's crazy. ZipRecruiter was able to do that for us. Like I said, usually speed and quality don't mix. But there is an exception to that unwritten rule. If you're hiring, you can find candidates fast who are also extremely qualified for your job. Just use ZipRecruiter. And right now you can use ZipRecruiter for [e-mail] Drink. It is so easy to use. It is so helpful. I mean, really, we have. I mean, we have ZipRecruiter to thank for everything that's happened so far. Anything Eva has touched, that's ZipRecruiter's responsibility, or was their responsibility for sure. It's also something that I'm incredibly grateful for. So thank you. ZipRecruiter experience hiring, speed and quality. With ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. We were one of those four out of five. And if you go to ziprecruiter.com drink right now, you can try it for free again. That's ZipRecruiter.com Drink ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire.

[Christine]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell, and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much. We're really doing this, huh? Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license, and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning, and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon. Bye. Bye, Truckee. Of course, we kept the favorite. Hello, other Truckee. Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Em]

How's everyone doing?

[Christine]

Hey. Sorry, I didn't mean to yell you. Hi. Is that better? No.

[Em]

It's all bad over here, Christina. Well, I guess just in across the globe.

[Christine]

It is all bad over here. Yeah, over here. Being everywhere in there. Hey, you look like you're in a beautiful spot there. A nice little. I always make a joke when I'm recording in a hotel room with my brother that I've bought new artwork. And I always show him the artwork in the hotel. And I want to know what you've bought today or what you've. What you've acquired for your collection today.

[Em]

It's interesting. It's interesting you mentioned that because I just hung her up. This is. This is of farm.

[Christine]

This is a farm.

[Em]

It looks like I. They're trees. The red.

[Christine]

Some sort of bucolic situation.

[Em]

I saw it and I went, that dirty, dirty floor that we call nature. I just. I just want her hanging over my bed. And that's. And that's where she stays now. So. But I did.

[Christine]

It's beautiful. I love that the frame matches the walls. It's the whole thing. It's just really working.

[Em]

I called in the big guns on that one. I was like, I need me a designer. I need her now. And usually I'd say, oh, Alice and. Oh, Alice and wherefore Art Thor Alice and need you to frame something. And then, you know, I. We both decided, let's spend some real money today and get time.

[Christine]

This is a picture of the outside. We gotta get. We gotta be serious now.

[Em]

Call Queer Eye. We need them to frame our dirty, dusty picture. And that's what I bought recently.

[Christine]

It's so cool. One time my brother said, what's that painting behind you? And I said, it's a Matisse. And he said, really? Why did. Why is it in two pieces? And I was like, I cut it in half because it was like one where that for inexplicably this picture. And then they just like chopped the canvas down the half. And like, he's like, I don't know. We have a lot of fun with it. And then sometimes he's like, what art is in there? And I turned and there was this giant photograph of a jumbo jet. And I was like, what? I don't know. I was like, now I have to come up with a fucking story for that.

[Em]

So was that cut one actually a Matisse? No. Oh. I was like, you could have called it a two piece.

[Christine]

No, it is shit. That would have been good. I should have saved that joke.

[Em]

That's why you should only podcast with me, Christine.

[Christine]

I know I've been. Been. I've been feeling it, you know, deep down. I'm like, time to go, time to go. M gets my art curation a little more.

[Em]

I. Yes. I'm glad you said something. Next time I might have something else hanging up. Every week is an adventure over here in the world of design.

[Christine]

So, so exciting. So exciting. Do you ever watch on Tick Tock those. Those. What is it called? Designing scents or.

[Em]

I don't know the names of most accounts that I watch. I just know, like, what I'm seeing.

[Christine]

Oh, I see. It's the TV show 90s.

[Em]

Yes.

[Christine]

God, it's good and, God, it's bad. It's so hard to watch, but I can't stop. It's these two women from, like, the 90s, 2000s, who are like. And here we. Like, they're literally so crazy. They're. They're, like, redesigning, like, children's bedrooms, and they make them. It's like, what's the opposite but good. Sorry, I was gonna say what's the opposite but still bad of Extreme Home Makeover, because it's like that but just, like, shittier somehow. Like, cheaper. Way cheaper.

[Em]

That. This is how tight Pennington made his career. He was like, I can do better.

[Christine]

Please step aside. Because they will literally be like, oh, she likes purple. And then they'll just, like, take a bunch of purple construction paper and, like, tape it to the walls. Like, it's the craziest shit. And then they'll, like, do something irreversible. They'll be like, we super glued all of these items to the. To the bed. And it's like, what the fuck? Or, like, we took this dusty thing we found at the thrift store and made it her toothbrush. And I'm like, you can't just do that.

[Em]

I saw the one where in the kitchen, they. They bought, like, plates from the dollar store and, like, glued them on the wall to make them, like, 3D art. And I was like, what the.

[Christine]

Yeah, These people are, like, bonkers. It's like they're ahead of their time in, like, a way that they didn't realize because it's so comical to watch. But there was this one where the girl whose room was being. She said, like, she wanted her room to be pink. The whole thing was green. And everyone was like, I wish we could hear. And then, like, open the closet, and she's just like. They're like, this is her reading nook, and she's just sitting in the closet. Like, these poor children.

[Em]

I feel like. I feel like she came out.

[Christine]

She came out. Not came out, but she came out and said, I'm a survivor. And she said it took them days. She said they were there for many days, and everyone was like, days they're gluing tissue paper to the wall. Like, how are they spending days? And she said it was just as traumatic as it. As it seemed.

[Em]

So that's a lot of paint thinner on a wall or something. I don't know how you get that off. That's. I. I feel like their husbands were just so sick of them being like, oh, I'm gonna redo our room. And they're like, I'll pay you to go anywhere else.

[Christine]

Something. No more decoupage. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Decorating sense with a C. It's supposed to be budget decorating. In the 90s it was. Man, if you guys just look that up on YouTube, it is some good quality entertainment and horror also.

[Em]

It's also WILD because on TikTok, there are people who are like, this is how you decorate on a budget. And it looks like a five star hotel by the end. And I'm like, how did you do that? Like, decorating scents must be humiliated.

[Christine]

I think they must be humiliated. It must have been like pre Amazon, pre. Any sort of Internet purchasing. Like, they just had to. And then they'll go, oh, we bought these hooks for only $65. And I'm like, what the fuck kind of hook are you buying for six? You're like blowing the budget, you know. Oh. And then. Oh, the cultural appropriation. So they'll always. They always throw in something. They go like at one point, they're like, and here we are mod podging sacred Indian prayers to the wall. Oh, give it some. Some cultural edge. And it's like, excuse me. Sacred Indian prayers? What Firm pass?

[Em]

Well, I. You know what? It makes me feel better about us.

[Christine]

You know, classy as hell in that room. I gotta say. Me.

[Em]

Oh, well, you know, it's just my farm painting, so.

[Christine]

Yeah, your bucolic farm painting is really like nailing it.

[Em]

You know, this actually is. It's a very chichi kind of room. It looks. It looks. It. Also online it said it was like a three star hotel or something. I was like, but it looks beautiful.

[Christine]

It's fancy.

[Em]

Yeah. Anyway, tell that to the reviewers. Tell that on beach two Sandy.

[Christine]

I will.

[Em]

This is actually a beautiful hotel.

[Christine]

I will.

[Em]

Oh, why do you drink Christine and dear God, what do you drink?

[Christine]

Well, I just drank a bunch of coffee. I was supposed to save it for the episode. I couldn't. It's my Boston University mug that Blaze bought me when we visited, so. Before I knew you. She's older than your. Our friendship. And that's it Because I woke up and my aura ring said, hey, something's really wrong.

[Em]

When is it? That girl needs a break.

[Christine]

I know she goes through a lot. I charge her, like, all the time because she's always just on the go. And it was like, your temperature was up, like, significantly overnight. And I was like, great. And so then I was like, I think I'm fine. And then I went to lay down in my bed, and I was like, I must sleep. And so I slept, like, two more hours, and now I'm here, and I'm still in my jammies, which is my cool shark shirt that we bought in Florida together.

[Em]

Love that.

[Christine]

And it says, hard to see, but somewhere in there, it says, bite me.

[Em]

I love that.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Are you feeling well?

[Christine]

I feel fine. I'm here.

[Em]

Sure?

[Christine]

No, I feel okay. I think I needed a lot more sleep. I slept, like, almost a total of 24 hours over the last three days. I think my body was, like, doing its little. Little pickup. We need to sleep now. So I'm okay. I'm just, you know, chugging along and melting alive over here. How. But I drink coffee. Sadly, all gone now. And I drink because I'm My. I'm apparently falling apart. But what else is new?

[Em]

I mean, our. I'm sure our listeners would like to know how you're doing on tour.

[Christine]

Oh, thank you for asking. Well, we. We are trying to get the word out. A lot of people are not realizing, and it makes me crazy because. Remember when we'd go somewhere M. Yeah. And we'd be.

[Em]

Did that a lot.

[Christine]

Yeah, we'd be. We'd be pushing a show, like, Tampa or Florida, whatever, like, over and over. And then like, a week later, people would be like, why don't you ever come to Florida? And I think infuriating. It is like, the most. Like, you. You want to, like, rip your hair out because you're like, where were you?

[Em]

Or even, like. Like, when we were, like, promoting our book. And then a week later, someone's like, you should write a book. And I'm like, where are you? Okay, where. Like, did you just check out of the phone? Where it's like.

[Christine]

It's like, wow, don't yell at me. I was just next door to you. I was there. I was waiting. Oh. And then somebody, you know, who you are, commented, oh, you should come back to. About me and my brother. You should come back to Florida or to Tampa, because I had tickets, and I was so excited. But then I forgot you were coming, so I missed the show, and I'm like, I am not coming back for that. Somebody skipped their hysterectomy to come to M's of my shows. So you know what? I'm not. No, no. The bar is very high, my friend. I'm not coming.

[Em]

We haven't forgotten you, hysterectomy girl. We have talked about you often.

[Christine]

Regularly. Regularly.

[Em]

We're like, wow, talk about a devoted fan base.

[Christine]

I mean, really, we were like, you shouldn't have on that, but thank you for doing it.

[Em]

You could have stayed home. We would have understood.

[Christine]

Yeah, we.

[Em]

Well, I'm sorry, Christine.

[Christine]

Oh, well, thank you. It's just, you know, we're. We're out there. Yeah. If you're interested in seeing us, it's really fun. We do. We read one star reviews of your town live on stage. It's very enjoyable. Random people from the podcasting space are probably going to show up at different events, so maybe you'll spot someone you recognize in the audience. I don't know. But yeah, it's fun. We're going all over the place. We're going to California. Not la though, but we're going to a few spots in California. We're going to Omaha, Nebraska, Kansas City, Plano, all sorts of weird spots. So anyway, come see us. It's gonna be really fun. And it's fun. It's different than our touring because my brother and I share a hotel room.

[Em]

Oh, no. Christine.

[Christine]

So that's always a very weird, like, difference between touring. Like, a lot of it's the same traveling, blah, blah, you know, prepping, and then, then the hotel room is like just us bickering about what to watch on tv.

[Em]

So is it is. I'm sure a portion of it is fun, but how much of it do you just like, revert back to being like little kids, siblings, and like, do you like, do you get in a fight and then you have to go on stage? Like, what happens?

[Christine]

No, no. Thank God. I think we were so toxic with one another for so many years and so badly that now we're like, oh, that's not worth existing in that. In that way we gotta be us against the world rather than just like. I feel like when we were kids, it was like just this constant. I mean, we're two years apart. I feel like that's just how it goes. But now we're like, oh, no, everyone else. Not everyone else. But the people that I feel like have created some problems for us. We're like them. We're on our own team now. So it's kind of A nice little, like, change of pace. We do occasionally bicker, but not really. I feel like. I mean, knock on wood. We haven't had a real, like, we. The. Not the last knockout drag out fight. We had knock. What is it? Knock down drag out fight was in Korea town when we lived there and Blaze's brother lived with us and Ally lived with us, and Blaze had to get between us. It was like, really? Oh, yeah. I threw my phone so hard against the wall, it shattered into a million pieces. My brother was like. I mean, we were. And then guess what? We had to record that night because we realized an episode came out at midnight for beach too Sandy. Yeah. So we kind of got it out of our. I think. I hope.

[Em]

My God. I. It's moments like that where I'm like, who. Being an only child was easy breezy, man.

[Christine]

Sometimes I look at Leona and I'm like, it'll be fun for you to have a playmate. And then I'm like. But also, like, oh, my God, the scream. Like, I don't know. I don't want the throwing and the screaming. But then we have that anyway with her. So I'm like. I mean, not in, like, a.

[Em]

To see you and her go to blows like that.

[Christine]

Right? We just start, like, I just throw my phone across the room. No, no, no. That does not happen nowadays. But with my brother, man, we could really hit those. But we're. I think we've both done some very intensive inner work and therapy and have. Have come to realize we're maybe on the same team instead of.

[Em]

I. I also don't think you. It sounds like every sibling rivalry or sibling relationship is like that. Like, I. I used to watch Deirdre throw her brother down the stairs.

[Christine]

Yeah, right? Yes. Yes.

[Em]

What the hell?

[Christine]

Hey, is that. And then suddenly they're like, best friends again, and you're like, what the is that about?

[Em]

I was always so excited to go back home, and I was like, oh.

[Christine]

My God, get me out of here.

[Em]

This is Animal Planet.

[Christine]

Yeah, kind of.

[Em]

Well, so are there any cities coming up that you're really excited for?

[Christine]

Thank you for asking. Yes.

[Em]

Great. I guess we'll find out when you get there.

[Christine]

I'm sure there are. No, I'm really excited. I love Kansas City because Live Laugh Larceny is coming, which is really fun, and we love them, and so we're going to get to see them. So we're going to Chicago. I don't know. We have just a lot of, like. I don't just, like, kind of random throughout smattering.

[Em]

You know, I don't mean to tell you what to do when you're in Kansas City, but I think this week an adult Chuck E. Cheese opened up. It's called, like, Chuck's Arcade or something.

[Christine]

Well, well, well, everyone, now I think we have plans. And guess what? We just got the ticket counts. Kansas City was the only city that didn't add any tickets after we posted about the live shows. So either they found out about this adult Chuck E. Cheese and made other plans, which is entirely possible. Maybe we'll all just go there instead.

[Em]

I would. I can't. I. You know, what you all should really do is you should. Instead of having shows in comedy clubs, you should just have them in, like, a place you plan on reviewing.

[Christine]

I think that's a great idea.

[Em]

I'm sure you've talked about that at some point in your.

[Christine]

Well, we do read a review of the venue at the end, but it's always, like, a positive one, and it's usually about the actual meeting us because it's funny to say, oh, the, the comedians are so funny. And we're like, yeah, it is. Bye. Have a good night, everyone. But yeah, I think to do it in a venue with many reviews would be really enjoyable at Chuck's Arcade. I mean, it's hard to argue with that. Yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, it's the one thing. Well, that's not true. There was a few things on my Kansas City list I didn't get to, but I knew about a lot going.

[Christine]

On in that town. I feel like I was floored.

[Em]

I love Kansas City. I didn't realize how much was going on over there, but that one just opened, so I only heard about it and never got to even have it on my list when we were there, so.

[Christine]

Well, well, well. Look at my account. I don't know when my show is, but someday it's gonna be there and you can come. It'll be great. Why do you drink, Em? Besides your beautiful art requirement?

[Em]

Besides the millions I just lost on that art piece?

[Christine]

Acquisition, I should say.

[Em]

My acquisition. Yeah.

[Christine]

Million.

[Em]

Well, billions. I'm trying to be humble here.

[Christine]

Sorry.

[Em]

Let's see. Why do I.

[Christine]

World hunger. Dusty bucolic painting.

[Em]

Yeah, I just want to sit next to the dirty floor. I don't want to be in it, you know?

[Christine]

Right, exactly. That makes you kind of like an everyman.

[Em]

Thank you. Let me drink this water with my pinky out. Actually, while we're at it, let me see. Why do we, why do we drink? Well, I, I, I Hesitate to say, because I don't know when this comes out versus when I tell Allison. But there is. Hank got his DNA results back. Which we should discuss, I think, for Patreon.

[Christine]

Yes. Yappy hour.

[Em]

Let's just put it this way. Not what I expected. No.

[Christine]

Okay. Yappy hour time. Yep, we're gonna do it in Yappy Hour. By the way, we're so excited. People are joining like crazy. It's so exciting. People on Spotify and Apple podcasts now are able to connect to the Y Happy hour. So we're adding some people to our little after school clubhouse.

[Em]

Yeah, no, I. It's very fun. And that means even more people will get to play along while I tell you what's going on in.

[Christine]

Can I guess, like, can we play like a little game?

[Em]

Of course. But I'm just gonna tell you.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'm just making sure.

[Em]

Here's the thing is that I. Alison and I are always on the fence about if we'll ever have kids. So this might be the closest to like a. A reveal.

[Christine]

We get a gender reveal.

[Em]

Part of me is like, maybe I don't tell Allison and I just like throw like a breed reveal with her and our friends. You know what I mean? So I don't know if I'm going to tell her, which is why I want to make a Patreon because she. Even. Allison doesn't have Patreon. She listens to our main feed. Yeah. So Allison, you don't get to know until I tell you.

[Christine]

I get to know Teehee. I don't. Everyone else either. Haha.

[Em]

Everyone else gets to know. So I'm. I'm. I drink because of that. Where I was like, oh, this is going to give me so many answers. And now I just have more questions. I'm like, so what do I do with this information?

[Christine]

Yeah, I can't wait. Oh, I'm so excited.

[Em]

Remind everyone what Geo is.

[Christine]

He is a German shepherd mixed with shih tzu mixed with chow chow with dachshund. Oh. And then pitbull is the biggest amount. So it's pitbull, German shepherd, chow chow, shih tzu, or like even. And then a little dachshund.

[Em]

That's wild. I. Because I would have just thought German shepherd. Is that weird or something. Or German shepherd document.

[Christine]

It's so specific. And then he has that blue tongue like a chow chow, so it all kind of mixes together. And he's like the coloring of a German shepherd, but he's shrunken. He has an attitude of A shih Tzu. You know, it's all just kind of like the butt curtain, you know?

[Em]

Well, I'll. I'll tell you with. With Gio, at least every single one you listed, there is an attribute to.

[Christine]

Him you can find.

[Em]

Yeah, that's true, Hank.

[Christine]

I can't wait.

[Em]

It's. It. He might. It might as well have said 100 poodle, because I'm like, what is going on here? I really, like. It's. It's to a point where I'm like, do I need to, like, go do, like, a second test and see if they.

[Christine]

What is that called? A. A second opinion. Get a second opinion.

[Em]

I kind of want to go undercover and go to the same company and maybe do it twice.

[Christine]

Mix the dogs up, you know, like, maybe put the vial in the wrong.

[Em]

I feel like they gave me, like, Fifi's DNA and, like, it's. I'm like, what the hell is going on?

[Christine]

FIFA. The 100% poodle that the owner paid, like, six grand for and is now finding out. It's like, whatever.

[Em]

Hank is like, certainly not a purebred.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's funny.

[Em]

Anyway, so I drink because of that, because I'm a little confused. And also, on top of that, I'm. I'm mainly. More drinks. I'm like, how am I going to announce it to Alison? Like, this is the closest, like, announcing something like that that we've gotten and probably might get. So.

[Christine]

Yeah, when I got g. I was a big deal working at Disney Kids or whatever the. It was called Disney xd. That's what it was called. And I was a PA and I. We had a laminator at the office, and so I printed the results and I laminated them, and then I put them up.

[Em]

I would do the same thing.

[Christine]

Employee board, along with a picture of Geo that I also laminated. And then they told me to stop using the laminator. But I was very excited and proud, and everybody did give me, like, give me the. The chance to. To announce it. And then they were like, you need to go back to work and eat your lunch on the parking lot floor. And I was like, okay, bye.

[Em]

No, there's something about office culture where, like, you live for the little announcements.

[Christine]

You gotta have some fun. Ever. You gotta use the laminator for. For fun sometimes.

[Em]

Yeah. There was one girl when we lit. When we lived. Yikes. Capitalism. When we worked at ISS at the prop house, there was one girl who was gonna have a baby. And I remember it was, like, a huge thing in my department. Like, oh, what color hair is the baby gonna have? It was just like, something to go by.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, so I totally get it. I would have been as excited as you probably.

[Christine]

Let's all take bets as the episode goes on about what Hank is, and then at the end, we'll all figure out who won.

[Em]

I'll give you some options. I'll give you a list of, like, some things he might be or whatever. And. Yeah, anyway, that's why I drink. I. Because he's more of a mutton. I thought so.

[Christine]

I remember just how exuberant I was when those came in for G O like 10 years ago now. I mean, not 10, but close.

[Em]

My dopamine did spike.

[Christine]

I went, yeah, it'll do that.

[Em]

They make you wait a long time for those results.

[Christine]

They really make it kind of a game. Yeah. Hey, you remember how you got allergies?

[Em]

I do, I do. Yes. Yes, it's true.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh. Well, how did it go? Because I one time thought I should look into my allergies and I went, never mind. That sounds complicated. But I hadn't thought of Zoc Doc, which was my own dumb fault.

[Em]

You know, now that I am talking to a doctor about my allergies, I'm actually feeling so much better. Also, since I'm not near my dog this week, I'm feeling incredible. But I will tell you that if I didn't have zocdoc, I would have phlegm. And it's been very wonderful. Zocdoc can get you all allergy relief fast, so you can beat sneezing season and make spring a little less sniffy.

[Christine]

Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 100000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care, and more, I think across the board. M and I have used ZOC doc for almost all of those categories over.

[Em]

The years since the dawn of our friendship, I've been using dawn of Knowing.

[Christine]

One Another and zocdoc.

[Em]

Yes, Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com drink to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com Drink sockdoc.com Drink Christine, I am in Care Carolina. Hello. I'm an American North Carolina. I know my state and I am in the middle of a little adventure. But the next time you're craving your next action packed adventure, Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command.

[Christine]

Oh, right. So I don't need to travel to Carolina to get my fix. I can actually just open my phone.

[Em]

Close your eyes and wander away? Yes.

[Christine]

I just listened to Demon Copperhead and that was one of the best books I've read in a long time. Really, really beautiful, really good. Highly recommend. Audible is getting me the best stuff right. My adventures right here. I don't even need to leave the house like em does. They have gripping titles that keep you guessing. Exclusive captivating Audible originals and hotly anticipated new releases. So get on it, start listening and.

[Em]

Discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills.

[Christine]

Visit audible.com drink or text Drink to 500. 500. That's audible.com drink or text Drink To 500. 500.

[Em]

All right, well, I've got a little story for you. And speaking of that wonderful art piece that you mentioned behind me and just really wildly complimenting this hotel room so much, I'm gonna talk about this hotel. And I got a room after I did notes on it, so shut up. Well, so I'm staying with Alison Stanley right now. And they. Everyone but Alison and I have a small baby at the moment. And not only that, they also have dogs that are loud sometimes or just move around a lot. I was, it was advised to me that I don't record in anyone's house.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard with the big in law gatherings.

[Em]

Yeah. And so I was like, okay, well I'll get, I'll get a hotel. And then I started doing research by accident on a hotel in the area. And I was like, I'm just going to go record there then. So. Yes, so I'm talking about the Dunhill Hotel.

[Christine]

So this is. Okay, wait, so when did we do. What was the hotel we just did in Tucson?

[Em]

Hotel Congress.

[Christine]

Were you there? Oh, no. You did the research there?

[Em]

I did the research there.

[Christine]

Okay, so this one you're. And this is. This might be the second time ever we're recording from the haunted location because the other one was our 300th at Winchester. I don't know that we. I don't know that you've ever recorded from a haunted place.

[Em]

Like in the moment. Yeah, in the moment. Live, live. So if something happens, I've already told the ghost here, I'm like, if something happens, as long as it's on camera, I'm cool.

[Christine]

Touch that bajillion dollar painting.

[Em]

I did say, please, God, don't mess with the Internet. That's all I have to say.

[Christine]

Happens to your pillows. I'm gonna be starting to scream loudly.

[Em]

Well, so people, be on the lookout because I. I said out loud that whoever is here can do whatever they want as long as it's on camera. As long as it's within frame.

[Christine]

Hell yeah.

[Em]

I was. It made me start thinking, actually. I was like, what a fun little, like, a secondary series that would be of, like, just. Just recording me in random hotel rooms.

[Christine]

Across the country and just like, having, like, an action cam to see if anything happens.

[Em]

Yeah. Or like, because you. We both know I love traveling. What if I just spent 24 hours in multiple places and while I was there, I had to stay in a haunted place and, like, report on it, you know?

[Christine]

I mean, that sounds fantastic. Let's do it.

[Em]

It just has to be hotels like this where there's like, like a couple hot spots versus, like, Queen Mary. And it's like, oh, me by myself and the Queen Mary. That's not. There's not enough cameras in the world.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, we'll shop it. We'll shop it. Anyway, this is the Dunhill Hotel, and I am recording in here right now. Get started. It's in Charlotte, North Carolina, and in 1926. Ghosts. If I say anything wrong, let me know.

[Christine]

Smack m on the head.

[Em]

That would be cruel, Christine. That's not Christian of you.

[Christine]

It's Catholic of me, though.

[Em]

In 1926, the land for this hotel was bought by two doctors in town. And the plan was that this building was going to be half a hotel, but half apartments for locals. So it's going to be kind of pseudo permanent resident housing.

[Christine]

Don't you always feel bad when you're going into a hotel and someone lives there and you're trying to figure out the elevator and they're like, trying to get to their floor.

[Em]

Yeah. They have all their groceries. Yeah.

[Christine]

And they're just like, please, you have to tap the card first. And I'm like, oops. Yeah.

[Em]

I do always feel it doesn't happen a lot, but I do feel a little silly when I'm in a hotel in, like, a place I know very well. And then everyone's like, I wonder what we'll see while we're here. And I'm so jaded. I'm like, you'll see nothing, kid. You know, step aside. Let me get to my room. So it was originally a 100 room building and it was literally 50. 50. It was going to be hotel rooms versus apartments. Fun fact, the two doctors that founded this or bought this property and had this big vision. They were Dr. Matheson and Dr. Peeler and they founded what still exists today, the Charlotte Eye, Ear, Nose and Throat Hospital.

[Christine]

Oh, okay.

[Em]

If you care now, you know. Great. And also fun fact, because I know you love to know this information. The land was priced back then at $250,000, which today is over four and a half million.

[Christine]

Oh boy. Okay.

[Em]

That's just the price of that art behind me, I'll tell you just about so. One reason it was so pricey is because the building was going to be in a very sought after place in Charlotte. It was right in the main hub of town. And one of the first architects in town is the one who built the hotel. His name was Lewis Asbury Senior. And fun fact, he there's now a restaurant downstairs named after him called the Asbury.

[Christine]

Oh, makes a nice name.

[Em]

If you've got a name like that, use it. Fun fact again, you know, I love these. This building was originally called the Mayfair Manor. You know, I love a manor. You love a manor, I love a manor. What type of house do I want? A manor. Every time.

[Christine]

Only a manor.

[Em]

So it was originally the Mayfair Manor and some sources I saw were confusing it and calling it the Mayflower. Like the ship.

[Christine]

Not the same.

[Em]

Not the same. Maybe at some other point in time when it like switched hands briefly, maybe it was called the Mayflower, but the original name was Mayfair Manor. In case you're hearing otherwise, Asbury the architect made the hotel so that it would be one of the tallest buildings in town. And his like plan, which I think, what I think it worked out is that he wanted it to be seen against Charlotte's skyline. So if you were looking at the skyline, you could see his hotel.

[Christine]

He wanted his mark on the skyline.

[Em]

Exactly. Yeah. Nice. So in November, November 15, 1929, the hotel opened. Now November 15, 1929 is just a little over two weeks after the stock market crashed. Yikes.

[Christine]

Oh, 1929. Oh my God.

[Em]

And that's, they're like, has this open the Great Depression.

[Christine]

It's so awkward.

[Em]

Really awkward. It's like now you can't afford to even stay here.

[Christine]

That's like two weeks after Covid started. Or some like other like yes, that's a great. Or national disaster. Like oh my God, that's a great comparison. It's like timing.

[Em]

We're going to open the best Restaurant in town. Never mind.

[Christine]

We're all really busy about something else. Yeah.

[Em]

Luckily though, because this hotel was still in the middle of constructing some, I guess, last bits of it. And there was a whole need for people to work in hotels. This actually provided a lot of jobs for people in Charlotte who had just been laid off or lost all their money.

[Christine]

Oh, okay, that's good. Yeah.

[Em]

So it actually worked out that they needed a job and it was so new and well known that people were coming in anyway, so. All right, worked out. However, by the 50s, 1959, one of the doctors who bought the property, he died. And the hotel was then sold off. And it became a pretty common thing, it seems throughout its run from 1959 into the 80s, that it would get sold off, bought by somebody. Sold off, bought by somebody to a point where I'm not going to sit here and bother everybody listing all that, but with each other time it was handed off to another person or entity. The hotel quickly was just deteriorating. It was very outdated. It wasn't being taken care of. And by 1980, the property was like, we can't be a hotel anymore. We're thinking about turning it into condos. Even that fell through. And so within the next year, the hotel officially closed and became abandoned for many years. So a lot of squatters, a lot of homeless people stayed in here. Yeah, kind of like I am in my mind, like the Cecil Hotel.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Like you have all this property, all these rooms, you know, all this space, and it's like just shutting the doors. Yeah.

[Em]

And the irony that during the literal Great Depression, like, this would be a booming business and any other time it was struggling is weird.

[Christine]

That's really actually a good point. Yeah. That's interesting. A manner of all things. You know, the.

[Em]

Come on. The second they said, you know what, it's not the manor anymore, we're going to change its name downhill. So in 1987, that's six years since it became vacant. The hotel was bought again and renovated for $6 million in 87, which is now $17 million today. And the hotel was renamed the Dunhill. Now, I think it was renamed the Dunhill because the company that bought it is called, like Dunhill Associates or something. It's kind of a boring reason. I was thinking, like, there's a big, lavish explanation.

[Christine]

I thought they were like going Dunhill down the hill. I don't know.

[Em]

Yeah, something I was like, at least give me a reason. But nope, that's a poo poo on the Name. But I was really hoping for a fun fact for you. When it did reopen as the Dunhill in 87 or 88, the hotel now had 60 rooms instead of a hundred. And it has stayed in business ever since. And as of the 90s, it joined the Historic Hotels of America program, and it has been given multiple awards, including the award in excellence for best historic hotel in the country.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

Three store three stars on Google. How I don't understand what's wrong with you people. And that's the history. So now I'm just gonna tell you the ghosts.

[Christine]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Em]

So. And this is where the ghost should really chime in. Chime in. Reports started very early on in the hotel's history that there was something spooky going on. Staff would say that there were rooms that they just could not go in without feeling something really eerie. A quote that I read was when about walking into these rooms, they said they would feel shivers. That quote started in their spines and then traveled over their skulls.

[Christine]

Okay, that's a little too specific for me. Like, just say, like, ooh, a chill. That was fine.

[Em]

Something weird is going on.

[Christine]

Yeah. They're like a chill up the spine, not down.

[Em]

My skull is entrapped with shivers. Yeah.

[Christine]

Forget it.

[Em]

People would hear noises in empty rooms. They would see apparitions throughout the building. And unfortunately, some of those apparitions and sounds were residual hauntings from multiple suicides here.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

Because if you recall, the hotel was one of the tallest in the city.

[Christine]

Oh, geez.

[Em]

And it opened right after the stock market crashed.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, that too. Yeah. Yeah.

[Em]

So this was quite a space for a while. Which also, like, talk about the. I don't know what the right word is. The layers involved of, like, opening up this hotel. Somehow it's surviving the Great Depression. Everyone's coming here. Everyone's making money. It's like. Like a bright spot on a sad time. And on the roof, people are jumping.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Like, it's like, how do you. If this was their first time managing a hotel, they were navigating a lot fast.

[Christine]

Yeah. The hospitality industry is already a very tough one. I imagine this was, like, times 10.

[Em]

I feel like they were going into work every day being like, what am I about to walk into?

[Christine]

I mean, it's again, like, not to keep drawing comparisons, but it's again, like, Covid times. Like, you have no clue what the. Is gonna happen every day. And, like, what new obstacles.

[Em]

Yeah. So now, unfortunately, people claim to see those moments replaying on the property.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

One woman for Example, this was the. Oh, I have chills just thinking about it. One woman kept hearing your head up your skull. In my eyeballs, actually.

[Christine]

Oh, God.

[Em]

They didn't mention that in the notes. One woman kept hearing heavy footsteps above her despite being on the top floor.

[Christine]

Oh, no. Oh, no, the roof. Oh, no.

[Em]

And she went to look out her window and at that exact moment saw a man falling past her window from the roof.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

She freaked out and looked over the ledge and saw a man now on the ground. He was in an old fashioned suit and hat on the sidewalk. She tried to call like the hotel phone for help and the phone wouldn't work. So she ran downstairs and when she went outside to the sidewalk, nobody was there, even though she had just seen a lot of blood.

[Christine]

Hey, that's too. Because that's so traumatizing. But like, it's not quote unquote real. Like you're not. So it's like, how do you reconcile with that trauma if people are like, no, but you didn't really see anything. It's like. But I literally thought I witnessed somebody die by suicide.

[Em]

You know, that's such a good point because I. In. In one way. First of all, seeing whether it's real or not, seeing the details of someone die by suicide, die at all, anything graphic is traumatic. But on top of it, what you're saying of like the, the reality part of it, it reminds me of those people who claim that they've lived in glitches in the Matrix or they have vivid dreams of another family and then all of a sudden, like, they're. You just have to.

[Christine]

You're like a place where they're like, I don't know.

[Em]

That was all fake.

[Christine]

Totally. And it's like, well, it was real to me, but nobody else. Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah. So, yeah, a lot of trauma for her, I'm sure.

[Christine]

I wonder if it was like a time slip because the phone didn't work. I wonder if it was like she. A time slip and like saw everything happening. The phone wasn't.

[Em]

Didn't exist back then.

[Christine]

Exactly. Like, you're not allowed to use that.

[Em]

That's actually very interesting. Although, riddle me this. Then that night after he fell and nothing happened, she just went back up to her room. She was like, I guess I. I was seeing something.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

For the rest of the night, she saw the man fall past her window multiple times.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

Then laying on the ground below and then vanishing like nothing happened.

[Christine]

I would, I mean, you'd have to think you'd like, check yourself in Somewhere like an asylum. Like, I would be so concerned about my mental health if that were happening.

[Em]

Yeah, I would. I mean, I wonder what year that was, because I'd be like, get a camera, get my phone. Call something.

[Christine]

It probably doesn't work if the phone doesn't work.

[Em]

You're totally right. Yeah. So imagine not just the trauma that we were just talking about, but now it's happening over and over and you.

[Christine]

Can'T see, and, you know, nobody else can see it. Forget it.

[Em]

And I wonder how many times is multiple times? Like, was it three? I mean, that's enough, certainly.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Like, I'm not going to say only three.

[Christine]

And it's like, do you close your curtains and you're still hearing it or, like, the footsteps, like. Yeah, I don't know. That's just awful.

[Em]

Do you hear anything at all? Do you hear, like, a voice out the window, like, screaming or. I don't know. I don't know. But it's awful. And, like. And you hope it's the blueprint theory where this is all residual and not like, this. This person wants. It's, like, your attention.

[Christine]

Experiencing this or trying to, like, show it to you intentionally. Right, right, right.

[Em]

Well, so that woman later was obviously fascinated, even morbidly, by her experience. So she went and looked up the history of the hotel and learned that the night she was staying There was the 50th anniversary of a man jumping off the roof.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

I'm in that building right now, by the way. I just. Just remembered. I was like, oh, my God. And then I was like, so scary. Yeah. So other activity throughout the hotel includes water taps turning on and off by themselves, lamps flickering on and off by themselves, phantom smells which nobody, like, spoke on. I'm like, I feel like I would like to know what those smells are, but maybe something boring, like perfume, temperature changes, voices, footsteps, apparitions that disappear after you spot them. Apparently there's. There is a lady in white here who I only saw in one source, but apparently she thought you were gonna.

[Christine]

Say you saw her. I was like, what?

[Em]

No, she's there. Unfortunately, no. She, I guess, appears in the banquet hall and then disappears once you spot her. So. But there is a lady in white, because there's always a lady in white. Oh. Figures. At the foot of your bed. People claim that they feel something grabbing their ankles when they're sleeping. Just a firm, though forever. People hear laughter in the lobby when it's totally empty. The shampoo bottles rearrange themselves. Oh.

[Christine]

Oh, okay.

[Em]

Which, like, do they rearrange themselves when you're in or out of the shower. That very much depends on how scared.

[Christine]

I am for what purpose, really.

[Em]

Yeah. Again, you hope it's just a blueprint thing where, like, time slipped into, like, their world. Yeah, but, yeah. If I was in the shower, naked and exposed and I'm watching them move themselves like, casper, we've got a but. Yeah. Anyway, and then glasses move by themselves in the bar, which I hope is them taking a swig of something, you.

[Christine]

Know, I would hope. Yeah.

[Em]

Well, one employee in the office was in the office on her break and she watched one of the office chairs next to her swivel 360 degrees and then stop when facing her.

[Christine]

I'd be like, keep turning away from me.

[Em]

She apparently instead said. And she was like, I'm not sitting in there ever again. No one couple kept waking up because they felt something staring at them and they could hear laughter coming through their vents, which you hope is a person. But. Yeah, hope it's a person next door. But that also is like, super eerie.

[Christine]

Yeah. Because it's always like in a corner or like somewhere up high. Like the vent. Yeah, it's just like, I don't want it coming from the floor or the ceiling. That's just creepy.

[Em]

Also, if it's coming from the vent, it's far away and echoey enough that you're like. Like maybe is something talking to me? Like, what? Why do I keep hearing voices?

[Christine]

Like, it's like muffled enough that you can't clearly hear it. Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah. So apparently the 2nd, 9th and 10th floors are said to be the most haunted. That was the ac. Holy.

[Christine]

It's like, I didn't hear anything. I just saw you turn your head and I was like, goodbye.

[Em]

My favorite thing about you, Christine, is that whenever there's a haunted moment, your knee jerk reaction is goodbye. It's always the exact same world. I being in pitch black rooms where you did that was. I can't escape it. Anytime I get scared now, I hear.

[Christine]

It whispering in the background. I have no clue, but it really is my knee jerk reaction. What floor? Are we allowed to know what floor you're on? Or is that something you're going to talk about later?

[Em]

We'll talk about it in a second. Okay, so the 9th, the 2nd, the 9th and the 10th floors are the most haunted. The second floor. I don't really understand why, but the 9th and 10th floors make sense because they're the. They're the tallest floors and the room 906 is the most active now, Christine, because you asked.

[Christine]

906.

[Em]

I'm currently in room 906.

[Christine]

Yeah, you are. Did you request it?

[Em]

Of course. Can you imagine?

[Christine]

No, I know. That's why I was like, there's no way in hell they just did that.

[Em]

No, I just booked. Whatever. Cause I booked this at like one in the morning.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And then I was like, I'm just gonna book a room and then I'll just ask when I get there. And I was like, fat chance book. Is 906 available? And they said, oh yeah. Someone just. Someone just walked on out. Just checked out. And I went, that one, please.

[Christine]

Someone just checked out. Running screaming through the lobby. You can have it.

[Em]

A trail of ectoplasm was following them.

[Christine]

Oh my God. Wait, so you're in the most haunted room?

[Em]

I am.

[Christine]

This is so exciting now. Wow. Okay. I'm watching so closely behind you.

[Em]

I know. And this hotel, by the way, is said to be one of the most haunted spaces in Charlotte, which is interesting. So it's on all the listicles. So. So 906. This is things that might happen while I'm here. People say that everything in there feels off. I will say I do feel like I'm being watched.

[Christine]

Okay. I am watching you and so are many people. But that's probably different, right?

[Em]

Good point. I. Yeah. And I also don't know if it's like. Because I. I walked in primed for that.

[Christine]

Right? You're primed, right.

[Em]

I don't feel anything negative for sure.

[Christine]

That's good.

[Em]

Yeah. Maybe at night I would, but haha, I'm not gonna be here at night. So people say everything in the room feels off. People apparently have a hard time sleeping in here. People claim that they get heart palpitations for no reason jokes on them. I brought my propranolol.

[Christine]

Okay. I was like. And that seems like a terrible trying.

[Em]

And I just can't feel it. So people say that their items go missing. People have had their hotel keys. Their room keys stop working for no reason. The one that I'm the most freaked out about for some reason is the curtains moving on their own.

[Christine]

Okay, well, that's what I've been staring at this whole time. So I'll tell you, if the pillows or curtains move, that's where my eyes have been.

[Em]

This is your moment. Ghosts of the Dunhill Hotel move the curtains.

[Christine]

Imagine I just started screaming.

[Em]

That would have been crazy. Or if all of a sudden I just heard, you know, oh, I wish.

[Christine]

I wish I had some sort of like, like lever system. I could have done.

[Em]

Well, I did. There were a few interviews where someone, like, someone that works here said that the curtains moving is one of the more, like, common things here, or the blinds moving.

[Christine]

And I feel like if you saw that in the room, it wouldn't be. You'd be like, whoa. And then maybe you'd brush it off. But if we saw that on camera, like, that would be pretty cool because you can rewind and see, like, if anybody's touching it, you can see if their air is moving it.

[Em]

Exactly, yeah. If there's a draft. Yeah. But I guess that one of the reasons people leave this room the most is because the curtains.

[Christine]

Oh, really?

[Em]

And the blinds move themselves. People have literally gone downstairs and be like, you have to go get my luggage, because the blinds are just opening and closing and opening and closing by themselves.

[Christine]

Ew. Ew, ew. I just got goose camp.

[Em]

I feel something in here now.

[Christine]

Me too. I feel gross now. Cool. Welcome. Welcome to the recording.

[Em]

The electronics here turn on and off by themselves. Tv, this is your moment.

[Christine]

Watch the computer just shut off.

[Em]

Yeah, well, that's. That's why I came in here. And I was like, please don't mess with my computer. You can mess with anything else.

[Christine]

Yeah, anything else, please. We gotta get this episode out there.

[Em]

I just checked to make sure I'm recording. So electronics go on and off, the drawers open and close themselves. Horrifying. And one of the most common things people wake up to, or one of the most common things that happen here is that people wake up to the sound of knocking and tapping on the nightstand, which I am just sitting next to.

[Christine]

You've really positioned yourself in the perfect spot for my viewing pleasure. Thank you.

[Em]

I. It's. It is. As one of my first times doing this, it is very weird to be sitting next to the thing I'm talking about.

[Christine]

I am loving this. I agree with you that this should be a new thing where you just go. And we can all, like, watch the background and see, like, if anything happens. I really like it.

[Em]

You know me. I don't know if.

[Christine]

I don't know if you like it, but I think.

[Em]

I don't hate the idea of doing some sort of, like, travel series where I just talk about every haunted hotel.

[Christine]

I mean, I think it's awesome. And then you can see if anything goes on. I love it.

[Em]

Comment below. Thoughts?

[Christine]

Comment below. Let us know if you see anything Move.

[Em]

Move. One woman stayed here in this room, and apparently pretty much every phenomenon I just explained all happened back to back where she Woke up to knocking. Then the TV would turn on and off. Then something else would. She said, appliances, I'm assuming tv. There's not a fridge in here. She said appliances kept turning on and off. Maybe the lamps. Then the water was going on and off and all of in the curtains. And then she. She basically screamed because she was getting scared. And then everything stopped. And when she looked at the clock, it was exactly 3:00am oh, it was.

[Christine]

The middle of the night, too. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

[Em]

The main ghost of the hotel, which I was warned of when I checked into 906, by the way, they said, oh, yeah, well, look out for Dusty. But don't worry, he's very friendly.

[Christine]

Dusty.

[Em]

Dusty.

[Christine]

You know, I love Dusty already.

[Em]

I. First of all, incredible name.

[Christine]

Yeah, Big kick ass name.

[Em]

If I ever had to be a cowboy, specifically, and my name wasn't Dusty, I'd say we're trying again.

[Christine]

I was gonna say Hank or Dusty. And you already have Hank covered, so. Dusty is also such a good, like, little cowboy name. I love it.

[Em]

Like, you're meant to be outside for sure.

[Christine]

Tumbleweeds, step aside.

[Em]

Imagine if your name's Dusty and you just, like, don't leave the basement. Well, I guess maybe the basement's Dusty.

[Christine]

It's pretty dusty. Imagine if your name is Dusty and you're like a hedge fund.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Something that doesn't quite fit.

[Em]

Unless you have to go by Dustin.

[Christine]

Yeah, you kind of have to. Unless, like, it's kind of like, oh, my frat bros called me Dusty, you know, and it's like a thing, you know?

[Em]

He now goes by Dustin, but when his friends from college come into town, they go, hey, Dusty. Yeah. He's so embarrassed all the time.

[Christine]

Yep. If Dusty doesn't move your curtains right now, I'm gonna start crying. Come on, step it up. We're summoning you, Dusty.

[Em]

This is your moment to make a. A visual sign that you're here. We're all looking for it. Nothing. All right, well, here's the thing. He's apparently the main ghost here. I don't know about that. I think he's just the most talked about ghost here. He's known to be very mischievous and prank people. People say that he is like the ghost of the Dunhill Hotel, but I also think maybe he's kind of a scapegoat more than anything because there are so many people who've died here. There's probably a lot of stuff going on. And the only reason Dusty is so popular is because it's the way That a lot of staff excuse weird things happening here.

[Christine]

Like it's just dusty.

[Em]

I think a lot of things happen probably by a lot of different ghosts. And they go, oh, that's just Dusty. Oh, that's just Dusty. And I don't even know how the name Dusty came to be. Like we're just making up things at this point.

[Christine]

Okay, okay, so maybe there is ghost.

[Em]

Maybe there is a main ghost, but we don't know that his name is Dusty. Maybe there's no main ghosts and this is just the work of several spirits and there is no Dusty. I don't know know. But whether it's one ghost or multiple, they all seem to be very friendly and just like to pull pranks and that's about it. So this is the hotel you would want to experience, of all things.

[Christine]

It sounds not. I mean, obviously suicide replays notwithstanding, it feels like the. The little pranks and stuff are. Are on the more harmless end, I think. I hope.

[Em]

Yeah, I. The worst thing I saw was that sometimes people get their ankle grabbed.

[Christine]

I didn't love that part. Part, yeah, that part's not good.

[Em]

But that also feels like maybe that could still be playful. Like, haha, gotcha.

[Christine]

And then let's like, it's not funny.

[Em]

It's not funny.

[Christine]

But it's so mad. I'm like not playful. Stop it.

[Em]

Alive. If a person did that, I'd go.

[Christine]

Get the, yeah, you're no longer friends with me, goodbye.

[Em]

But if that's the worst thing that happens, then I would still pick that over like, you know, a million other hotels that I don't.

[Christine]

Or like attachments and. Yeah.

[Em]

Or violent. Yeah. Anyone getting like, scratched. Yeah, sure. So just in case he decides to get a little too mischievous at any point, the hotel actually has a drink named after him here in the bar. And I saw online that it's called Ghost Cider, which apparently is vodka with ghost peppers. That sounds awful.

[Christine]

That's trash. By I.

[Em]

Maybe they got a lot of feedback like that because I ended up looking at their menu because I plan on ordering lunch at the Asbury after this, of course. And I didn't see ghost cider on the menu, but I did see a drink called the Dusty.

[Christine]

Okay, is that a little better?

[Em]

You tell me. It's a smoked drink, which I would immediately be out. I'm out anytime. Like this is another one of these things with these bartenders trying to make me fancy mocktails. They're like, oh, I'm gonna smoke it. And I'm like, you're gonna make it taste like a tree.

[Christine]

Why? Yeah, the is wrong with you cult. Like. Like charcoal.

[Em]

Yeah, like a burnt anything. Like, why would I want my drink also burnt? Anyway, I can't take it. If you ever meet me and want to make me a mocktail, please God, don't smoke.

[Christine]

I literally. My brother and I just did an episode of reviews of Cocktails and I went on this rant about you and your mocktails. Not you, but like about your experience ordering mocktails. And people are like, here's some bitters. And you're like, no, off with your bitters. I want juice. Delicious juice. Juice.

[Em]

I really. It's so shameful, but I. Or feels shameful. It shouldn't have to be, but I. I feel like the only way to get what I want at a. At a bar anymore is to just say, I want fruit punch. Do what you can with that.

[Christine]

Exactly. Which I feel like is fair. You know, people figure that out because.

[Em]

Otherwise people are like, here's some bitters and a lime wine and I'm gonna smoke it.

[Christine]

Smoke it. Yeah.

[Em]

And now you feel fancy. And here's. Oh, by the way, give me 16. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Now drink it in front of me and tell me how much you like it.

[Em]

Okay. There have been a few people who are fans of the show who make me a box sale and they want to watch me, like, enjoy the drink. And they're really trying. They're really pulling out all the stops. And I'm like, girl, I just want pineapple juice. I don't know what to tell you. I'm so sorry.

[Christine]

Yeah, I would have been like, this is the best drink I've ever had because I'm just that.

[Em]

Oh, I did. I was like, this is incredible. And then I just like, hoped they weren't looking when I like.

[Christine]

And you hope they're not finished right now.

[Em]

I'm sorry if it's you. You tried really hard and I appreciate that.

[Christine]

The effort was uncomfortable. That, like, say it out loud in the moment.

[Em]

You had the right spirit. It's just. It just wasn't.

[Christine]

But you also had the wrong spirit.

[Em]

Yeah, my mouth wasn't super pleased, but my heart was. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Oh, that's nice.

[Em]

So the Dusty is a smoked drink. And tell me, smoked or not, would you drink this rye?

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

Okay. Bitters, sugar and cherries.

[Christine]

Oh, so it's like an old fashioned.

[Em]

I guess.

[Christine]

So rye whiskey. Yeah.

[Em]

Rye bitters, sugar, and then it has amarina cherries, which is different apparently than Luxardo cherries. Which I'm a massive.

[Christine]

I love a Luxardo cherry.

[Em]

If you are gonna make me a mocktail. If you just give me a cup of nothing but Luxardo cherries, we're in business. Just give me the jar and a spoon. Holy.

[Christine]

Just put that in a bunch of vodka and I'll be happy too.

[Em]

Apparently, Amarina cherries are different than Luxardo, but they're. They look the same.

[Christine]

Okay, it sounds good. Except for the rye and everything else. Everything else I'll drink.

[Em]

Can you imagine if I call down in five seconds? Because I can. And I'd be like, can I actually have the Dusty, but no ryer bitters? And they'd be like. So sugar and cherries.

[Christine]

Yes, sugar and cherries in a cup.

[Em]

And don't smoke it, please, God.

[Christine]

Yeah, God, please don't smoke it.

[Em]

Well, okay. So these are some of the things Dusty is said to do most often throughout the building. Like, these are the things that the staff are most often going, oh, that's Dusty for you.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

He will move your items around, the doors will open and close. He loves to open and close the blinds and the curtains. That's like his big old thing.

[Christine]

Okay, well, you're welcome to do that, Dusty.

[Em]

It's not my.

[Christine]

That I'm giving you permission. Watch my curtains close. Like, I'm like, that's so horrible. Now I'm scared.

[Em]

The other big thing is that he is known to open and close elevator doors at random on random floors. It doesn't matter. He just likes to. With the elevators. Okay, so because he's known to take control of the elevators, many think that this ghost is of a man from 1988 who was found in the elevator shaft.

[Christine]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[Em]

So remember I told you back in the 1980s when it finally got bought after being vacant and there was like this big several million dollar renovation while that was going on, crew was. Were sweeping out the elevator shaft, the old elevator shaft, and they found remains of a human skeleton.

[Christine]

Oh, no. That's sad.

[Em]

And that has now been attributed to Dusty, even though we have no evidence of that. It's just we had a ghost and we found a body. Let's put them together. For the longest time, after looking at this body and bringing in authorities, forensics could only determine very few things about this set of remains, which was that it was a white male with a limp and a deformed left hand. I don't know if deformed is the right word anymore, but there was a.

[Christine]

Was.

[Em]

There was something going on with his Left hand.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

And apparently they said he died within the last five years. That's the best they could do back.

[Christine]

Then in the 80s.

[Em]

In the 80s, yeah. They said he died, but 1983 was the earliest he could have died. And this was in 1987. 88. That they found him. Around that time, back in the 80s, remember, it was vacant and a lot of people were squatting here, so they assumed it must have just been like a homeless person who lived here. Something happened. I don't know if it was like the elevator fell on him or if it was just like, oh, he was sleeping in the elevator shaft and just died. We don't know. But anyway, that's how people assume that Dusty got here. And we didn't have any more information other than that. But a few Years ago in 2022, the remains were re examined with DNA collecting and Ancestry.com your favorites. And the remains were traced back to a World War II army vet named Oliver Mundy who went by OD. And his family was notified. They confirmed that OD went missing back in the 80s and he was last seen without proper housing. So there's a chance that he would have been squatting in this building.

[Christine]

Wow. Technology is crazy.

[Em]

So maybe this is where I kind of. I'm like, is Dusty even real? Maybe this ghost is od. Maybe neither of them exist. Like, it doesn't really matter. But how cool that we at least know who the person was and he.

[Christine]

Could be, like, contact the family and say, like, hey, we, like, oh, wow.

[Em]

And they found his relative through ancestry, because they. They, I guess, figured him out elsewhere and then looked him up on ancestry and they found his niece, I think.

[Christine]

Wow. And that makes it so much more relatable. Like, it's so easy to say. Unfortunately, it's so easy to say, oh, people were squatting and, like, unhoused folks were in there and, you know, you just. Somebody died and they found. But, like, when you say, like, oh, this was a vet and this was his family and, like, he'd gone missing. And, I mean, it just like, adds such a human element to it.

[Em]

Yeah. Like, it was just someone's uncle.

[Christine]

Yeah. It's really sad.

[Em]

So that was a major, I think, spooky element to this building for a long time. Like, up until 2022 was like a.

[Christine]

Body in the walls in the elevator shaft. That's terrifying.

[Em]

Yeah. And as of only three years ago, that.

[Christine]

That.

[Em]

That missing person's case is closed. But that certainly, I think, was a big narrative that people drove about like, oh, and that's how Dusty came here. But we don't know much. We just know that he's the most popular ghost here now that the body has been cleared, that it's not Dusty. We don't know how he got here. We don't even know if he's just one ghost or many. Like I said, despite all the deaths on the property, he's usually blamed for most things. So honestly, if he's a random ghost named Dusty and he keeps getting the heat for everything, I feel bad for him too.

[Christine]

Yeah. I hope that he takes that and just runs with it and it's like, yeah, you think I'm doing it? Well, fine, maybe I will do it.

[Em]

That would almost embolden me to just be worse. I'm like, well, you're gonna blame me anyway.

[Christine]

This. Exactly.

[Em]

Yeah. Anyway, anytime something spooky happens, we don't know. There's. It's just good old Dusty and a lot of people died here, unfortunately, so we don't totally have any information outside of that. But. But that is the Dunhill Hotel. This is room 906. We'll see what happens.

[Christine]

I can't believe it. When you showed me the key card with 906.

[Em]

Isn't that fun?

[Christine]

Isn't that fun?

[Em]

Anyway, that. That's my story.

[Christine]

I. So how long are you going to be staying there? Just for the day or. You're not staying overnight, right?

[Em]

No, just for. I just rented a room and I'm pretending it's my office for the day.

[Christine]

Because, I mean, I love that. I love that you and Dusty are doing one of those coat co working spaces.

[Em]

You know, me and. Me and D Dog, we. We work. You know what I'm saying?

[Christine]

We work. We working with d dog.

[Em]

The 906 gang. What up?

[Christine]

What up? 906. Oh, my God, I love it. I love it. Well, I'm gonna be staring. I'm gonna be so distracted during my notes. Just like trying to watch the curl.

[Em]

Every now and then I might just do like a little scan.

[Christine]

Yeah, we'll do a pan.

[Em]

Yeah. When things get too tough during your story, it's like, maybe we just took.

[Christine]

We'll just do like a little visual. Visual cue. Wow, that was fun. M. I kind of like this idea that you go to haunted hotels. And I just. I like it a lot at them.

[Em]

And it gives me a reason to go travel, you know? I'm gonna miss traveling.

[Christine]

I know. And I like to be home in my bed. So. You know what? It's perfect.

[Em]

Perfect. Okay, everyone start commenting. Other hotels I should stay in, don't make them super complicated, please.

[Christine]

Yeah, like table Iceland for now or Tokyo. We'll go there another time.

[Em]

Time table the Crescent Hotel. Because that was a big one. Like, give me like a. Where there's a notoriously manageable one room.

[Christine]

Right? Manageable one. One room at a time. We'll work our way up. Attention renters. That used to be us, no longer. But man, do we wish this had been around. If you haven't heard of Built, you are about to thank us. Earn your favorite airline miles and hotel points through Built just by paying your rent on time. Let us explain.

[Em]

There's no cost to join. And just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future Ren payment, and your next lift ride. I mean so much more.

[Christine]

When you pay rent through bill, you unlock two powerful benefits. First, you earn one of the industry's most valuable points on rent every month. No matter where you live or who your landlord is, your rent now works for you. Second, you gain access to exclusive neighborhood benefits in your city.

[Em]

Built neighborhood benefits are things like extra points on dining out, complimentary post workout shakes, free mats and towels at your favorite fitness studios, and unique experiences that only Built members can access. And when you're ready to travel, Built points can be converted to your favorite miles and hotel points around the world, meaning your rent can literally take you places.

[Christine]

So if you're not earning points on rent, our question is, what are you waiting for? Start paying rent through Built and take advantage of your neighborhood benefits by going to joinbuilt.com drink. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com drink make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Join built.com drink to sign up for Built today. Okay, we're not on tour right now, but we were just talking about how Mint Mobile on the tour iPad has been such a blessing in disguise. And I was saying, even though we're not on tour, I still use it. Like we were on a trip recently and I needed desperately to get an episode for Leona because you know how a three year old is and you know how their parents are just frantic and I, I was like, wait a minute, the tour iPad, it's got Mint Mobile. They've saved us. Not only there, but when I'm on stage and forgot my notes. Notes also. So thank you Mint Mobile for always.

[Em]

Being there and making life easy in all situations. Mint Mobile Is there. You could say bye bye or if you're Leona, ciao, ciao. To your overpriced wireless plans. Jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages because Mint Mobile is here to rescue you.

[Christine]

All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. So ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint mobile for only 15 bucks a month.

[Em]

This year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank, get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mint mobile.com ATWD that's mint mobile.com ATWD upfront.

[Christine]

Payment of 45 required equivalent to 15amonth limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. CMIT mobile for details. Alrighty, so I have a story for you today. Em. This is the story of Amy Gellert, born Charlotte Gellert in 1973. Kind of cute, named after her mother, but neither of them went by Charlotte. Amy herself went by Amy, which was her middle name. And then her mom went by Bunny.

[Em]

Love that.

[Christine]

You know how we've talked about nicknames and how Bunny is like one of the best and worst.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Of all the nicknames. Like it's such like a. It feels like a country club grandma, you know?

[Em]

Know. Yeah. It sounds like like Skip and Bunny or something. You certainly aren't. It's weird because it implies youth, but I don't think I would ever associate it with a younger person.

[Christine]

No. Right, true, true. It's always like somebody with like Capris.

[Em]

Yes. With only white capris. Only white. Yeah. That's interesting. And they have like a 401k. Ah, you know.

[Christine]

Yikes. What's that? Just kidding. Okay, so anyway, two Charlottes. Neither one of them is Charlotte, Bunny and her daughter Amy. When Amy was three years old, her parents divorced. She grew up in Cocoa Beach, Florida with her two brothers, Ryan and Mark, and her mother. Because her mother was a single mom. The three of them were inseparable. They were thick as thieves. And some of Amy's friends, looking back, think that Amy wanted to be more like like her brothers, but her mom wanted her to be a girly girl type of daughter, like a feminine daughter. And she didn't quite fit the picture is what some of her friends said. Amy wasn't a Very like, girly girl. She was pretty rebellious. She often pushed her mother's buttons. And with a mom like Bunny, I imagine, you know, that feels like the perfect mother, daughter kind of situation. You want your daughter to be a girly girl who's into makeup, and then, trust me, Bunny.

[Em]

My mom can relate to Bunny. Let's put it.

[Christine]

Yeah, let's just put it that way. In more ways than what? By the way, the Capri is not withstanding.

[Em]

My mom, actually, that woman loves a white Capri.

[Christine]

He loves a white Capri. So that was kind of the. The dynamic, at least according to Amy's friends. Ryan, her brother, said Amy was the perfect friend and the perfect, perfect sister. And he started to cry when he said that, and it made me sad. When Amy was five years old, Bunny remarried and Amy got a stepfather and his name was Bob Layton.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

He joined the family and they became a pretty solid family unit, the five of them. But soon after this, Amy became seriously ill with encephalitis, which is inflammation of the brain.

[Em]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine]

And so encephalitis is often caused by a viral infection or other primary issue that then leads to the swelling of the br. But we don't know what preceded the encephalitis. If anything, we don't know. We don't know how it happened. But we do know that she suffered from it and she survived. But the illness left her with learning disabilities that made school really difficult for her. And her mom and others who knew her said she really, really struggled, not only academically but also socially because she had to be held back a year. And it was just kind of hard for her at that age to like, reconcile. Getting, getting pulled back from her friends and, you know, a whole new, whole new world. Despite her struggles and this, like, life threatening illness that she defeated, she still seemed to be bubbly and happy. People were always drawn to her. Her high school best friend, Andrea Odell, said Amy was the most special person she'd ever met. She just was a very unique and good friend. But Amy's parents didn't necessarily feel that way because the friends she brought around were not always ones that they approved of.

[Em]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

Amy hung out with some teenagers that other people called rough, rebellious. You know, we're talking like the late 80s, early 90s, so you can probably exactly picture what I'm talking about.

[Em]

Grunge punk.

[Christine]

Yeah. Huh? Grunge. That kind of thing. Like smoking pot. You know, the devils let us know. You know, what Bunny would for sure call it that, you know, are you.

[Em]

Still gonna get your hot one? Your hot tattoo?

[Christine]

Oh, yes, absolutely.

[Em]

What's his name? Hot one.

[Christine]

Hot stuff.

[Em]

Hot stuff. You realize if you get hot stuff, we are the devil's lettuce. Isn't that fun?

[Christine]

That's crazy, and that's silly. Sorry. That's crazy. And I am, by the way, I am getting it.

[Em]

I'm excited.

[Christine]

She wrote to me that. That she. I don't know if anybody remembers this, but I was supposed to get a tattoo in Vegas, and then, unfortunately, the. And it was all these. What do you call it? I was gonna say conspiracies. I mean, coincidences, synchronicities that led up to it. And then the. The morning of the tattoo, I got this email being like, oh, she was in a car accident. And it was like, what the. And, like, so scary. And then I said, well, maybe sometime I'll be back in Vegas to reschedule. And they're like, well, she'll be in Northern Kentucky, in Covington, Kentucky, in August. Does that help? And I'm like, is. Am I being scammed? Anyway, I was not being scammed because I just wrote in, and we got it on the books, and she's coming to Covington, which is, like, right down the street, and I'm getting my hot ones in August.

[Em]

Perfect.

[Christine]

So we'll be the devil's lettuce.

[Em]

Very fun.

[Christine]

Just in time for the spooky season. It's a good costume. We should do that.

[Em]

I would love to be dressed up as lettuce. That'd be silly.

[Christine]

I would love to dress with the devil.

[Em]

Perfect. Okay, great.

[Christine]

And the devil, I guess, smoking marijuana. I think it fits the bill.

[Em]

We should both be like. Like a Cheech and Chong version of Devil and lettuce.

[Christine]

Devil and lettuce. Cute.

[Em]

Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your story, but I know it's.

[Christine]

It's fine. We're trying to find the pockets of tangent. I'm sorry. I know people sometimes get annoyed, but it just.

[Em]

It's gonna get sad. So, like, let us have a moment in the light.

[Christine]

It is how we speak in real life. You know, it's like. Like, you just have to follow along on the path. The winding roads, they're all detours.

[Em]

Hang in there long enough and you'll be sad. Don't worry.

[Christine]

Don't worry. We will get. Get to it, unfortunately.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And we will take that part seriously. So Amy was one of those people that had a lot of friends across the social, you know, board. So although all her friends called Her a great friend and somebody that they love to be around. Her parents did not necessarily feel the same way about all the people she brought around. So she hung out with kind of a tougher crowd and she started smoking pot. Speaking of which. She started smoking pot and you know, obviously even today that is something that parents and kids have major issues about and tension in households and things like that. But back then, the late 80s, early 90s, we're talking satanic panic. I mean, literally, devil's lettuce. Like, like it was bad, bad the vibe. Yeah. So her mom is really, really, really not about it. And according to her mom, you know, I don't know, I didn't hear anybody else's kind of take on this, but according to her mom, she was very heavily into pot. And she even said Amy was someone, and this is a quote, someone who would sell her soul for pot. That's what. Wow. That's what she said about her daughter. So I'm like, like, I mean, I.

[Em]

I don't know, it's like, how, how on, on the nose is that?

[Christine]

Yeah. And you know, is that like, oh, she was actually selling. I, I don't know how, how specifically how that translates, but apparently she really was pretty dependent on it and her mom got desperate. Her mom was like, I gotta, I gotta get her off this stuff. So unfortunately back then, what was considered a pretty, at least, at the very least, legal action, she sent her daughter to a sort of wilderness camp or one of these.

[Em]

Oh, like the, like the scared straight kind of programs.

[Christine]

It's actually called Straight is the name.

[Em]

Sorry, sorry, that's not funny.

[Christine]

But it's not funny.

[Em]

It's just so on.

[Christine]

It's just so on. The, it's just so. Like you actually accidentally said the literal name of the program. Like, that's how absurd, like how absurd it got.

[Em]

The only way it would be better is if it was like, like a gay conversion camp. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

I mean, exactly. And I bet you there are those also called Straight, you know, horrifying.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Oof. Okay, so she, her mom enrolled Amy in a so called rehabilitation program in Orlando called Straight Just. All of that is a painful sentence.

[Em]

How much weed was she smoking?

[Christine]

That's what I'm saying. I don't know, like what? Because Bunny was the only one who ever gave kind of a like, evaluation on it. Like a, an amount or a number or an idea. Like her friends did say, oh yeah, she was like, you know, smoking pot and, and she, it affected her in some way. But we don't know really, like, the extent of it. Right, right. But for whatever reason, Bunny thought it was worth sending her to this rehabilitation program, and it was called Straight. And Saoirse, our wonderful researcher, wrote this note here. The documentary on this case only identified the program by the name Straight, that it was in Orlando and that the program was, quote, controversial. Yeah. I looked into youth rehabilitation programs in Florida called called Straight at that time, and I am. This is Saoirse speaking, and I am making an educated assumption that Amy attended a program with Straight, Inc. Was the name of it.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Straight Inc. Was one of many rehabilitation programs that have exploited families through the troubled teen industry, is what it's being referred to as now. According to the unsilenced project, countless abuse allegations and $15 million in lawsuit settlements shut down Straight, Inc. In 1993, which was not long after A was in the program. Okay, so thank you, Sergio, for going down that rabbit hole. It's always a dark and sad and scary one. We've covered a few cases of different wilderness camps coming into play. Not even wilderness camps, sorry. Like the Scared Straight camps, the rehabilitation, quote, unquote, troubled teen camps. I guess they're sort of like a boot camp type camp thing. So I guess I shouldn't need to say this, but just to clarify, Amy did not want to go to this program. Like, she really didn't. She didn't consent to it. She was angry about being removed from her whole world, her home, her social life. And Ryan, her brother, said that she blamed their mother for that. Obviously.

[Em]

Yeah. I mean, I've never had one of these experiences, but I. I can assume that one of the reasons I was an angsty teen is because I didn't have.

[Christine]

Have.

[Em]

I didn't feel in some way there was something going on with, like, my relationship with my parents, I'm sure. And that's why I came across as angsty. And, like, there's no worse way to mend that than, like, give me another reason to, like, hate pushing you.

[Christine]

And torture. Like, I mean, not torturing in this necessarily. I don't know what happened at this camp, but in some of them, literal torture, like, no sleeping with a sleeping bag, no food, water, you know, and it's like. But I guess. And, you know, to that point also, there's so many documentaries on this, so don't take my word for it, but a lot of the parents claimed that, you know, back in the 90s, they didn't even realize. Like, if they knew, they would not have signed their kids up. For something where they don't get a blanket and they're 13 years old and they're.

[Em]

Or they're being, like, physically harmed or something.

[Christine]

Physically abused. So I'm not saying, you know, the parents, like, intentionally chose that, but it. The programs themselves, you know, ended up being a lot worse than anybody kind of realized.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. And a lot of them are still around, so it's disturbing. Yeah. So she went to this camp, not by choice. And she went and returned in 92, which again, this camp had been shut down in 93 permanently after $15 million in lawsuits. So, like, like this was its last hurrah, I guess. So she comes home in 1992 and everybody says she actually seemed like she had a better head on her shoulders. Like, she seemed more like herself. She seemed more grounded. She had come home with friends from the program and started to think about her own future. So, you know, whatever that. Who knows what that had to do with anything, but I'm just gonna take it at face value.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

So she started thinking about the future and being someone who was passionate about music her whole life. Her dream, her like, life dream was to be a roadie for a rock and roll band. Okay.

[Em]

Hell yeah, brother. That's what's up. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Well, get this. She did get a job as a roadie or the rock and roll praise band at her parents church.

[Em]

You know, that's a happy middle ground.

[Christine]

I love it. It's like, like. And she loved it. Like, I just think that's so kickass, you know, Bunny was probably, like, elated, like, finally we found our common ground, you know?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I mean, it's just so. It's so fun. I love it. So she. She got a job basically touring with this rock and roll praise band at her parents church, and she was their sound engineer at Calvary Chapel's recording studio. So she made quite a few new friends, and suddenly she's in this, like, totally different crowd than she was before. And even though, you know, her parents are relieved, her family's relieved, they're seeing her kind of step away from the kids they felt were bad influences, that kind of thing. However, she didn't totally strictly stick to her new life. She did see her old friends from time to time, the kind of more questionable ones, according to her parents. And she didn't completely stop smoking weed, which she would buy from friends that she met in the straight program.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Ironically, I assume that's certainly. I assume that's an example of irony.

[Em]

I mean, it's a lot like going to, like, a conversion camp, and, like, everyone's hooking up with each other, right?

[Christine]

Exactly.

[Em]

Like it happens.

[Christine]

Yeah. Like getting a boyfriend, Right, Exactly. So in 1993, this guy named Scott Manley reaches out to Amy. And this would have been like a year after the program. He was two years older than her, but they had met while they were both in straight and he wanted to reconnect. Scott struggled with substance use disorder, and he used, unlike Amy, much more dangerous drugs than just marijuana. So he was using crack cocaine. And Amy's family was anxious about this guy being around her daughter, especially because she had been trying to, you know, know, pull away from. From the marijuana use. But Amy, you know, she. She was somehow able to juggle those friendships. So she had her friends from the program and the friends who were supplying her with weed. And then she also had her church friends and was doing, you know, sound mixing for them, and she seemed happy overall. So we're now fast forwarding to late March of 1994, and Amy had just turned 21. It seemed like she was really getting, like, a feeling for what she wanted to do in life. She was. Than she had in a long time. March of 94, you can imagine Cocoa Beach, Florida, was hopping. Good break. Yeah, I imagine that was. That was a riot. And somewhere I would probably have been.

[Em]

Scared to go, somewhere I would have thrived.

[Christine]

I know, I know. It's so funny. Man, I would have. Man, I would have watched that reality show of you just. Just floating around at one of those spring break, like, MTV shows, you know.

[Em]

Just floating around, hurting my cats. That are all the drunk friends.

[Christine]

Yeah. Gossiping about everything and just, like, watching. Just like drinking a little mocktail. Yeah, good one.

[Em]

A good one.

[Christine]

Okay. So busier than ever. Everyone's flocking to the beach. I feel like 90s were, like prime Florida spring break vibes, at least. Totally my memory.

[Em]

MTV spring break. Wasn't it always at Orlando?

[Christine]

It feels like it was, yeah. Somewhere. Yeah, that sounds right. Again, I didn't watch it. I was scared. Okay, I'm sure, but I'm sure, you know, so Ryan was home from college, Amy's brother, and he said she was having a good week. On Sunday, March 20, she went to church. In the evening, she saw her parents there. I didn't realize this until now. Not now now, but, like, now in the research church when I was reading through everything that her parents names are Bunny and Bob. And I just, like, that is quite a power couple name.

[Em]

So I like the alliteration, but I Am mad that he doesn't have an animal name, too.

[Christine]

Bunny and Bob funny and Barry. Yeah, something like that. That's true.

[Em]

I could see Bunny changing her name to something later, like, Foxy. Like, something like. Like, wants to, like. Like, revamp herself, but with a different animal name. And it'd be, you know, the. Foxy was an older. An older sound anyway.

[Christine]

So jazzy. No. I don't know. Yeah, there's something.

[Em]

Kitty, maybe. Kitty.

[Christine]

Kitty's good.

[Em]

We'll shop it. We'll talk to Bunny.

[Christine]

We'll talk to Bunny. Because I think Bunny, though, I feel like once you're at Bunny, like, it's hard to un. It's hard to be cast as anything else.

[Em]

Yeah, you can't. You can't unlight that match.

[Christine]

You can't. That's beautiful. That's beautifully said.

[Em]

Just tell Bunny.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Okay, so. So March 20th, Amy goes to the church. In the evening, she says she sees her parents there, Bunny and Bob. And she says, hey, I will be driving home separately, but I'll see you when I get there. Okay. Bob and Bunny get home. They walk into the house, and they see a man step out of the darkness wearing a ski mask and gloves.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

And he is holding a gun in one hand and a dagger in the other. Other.

[Em]

Oh, my God. I forgot for a second this was a horror story.

[Christine]

We were having so much fun talking, and I realize now how impending this doom actually was. I think I. I think I thought we had more room to banter and. And. And play around space. And then all of a sudden, it was not.

[Em]

Oh, my God. I can't. I. I obviously can't imagine. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Yeah. Terrifying. Okay. Okay. They see this guy step out of a room. He's wearing a ski mask, gloves, holding a gun and a dagger. He orders Bunny and Bob to their knees. He forces them to crawl through the house until told to stop. Bob is made to lie down on his stomach, and Bunny is told to lie down on top of him across his body, sort of forming like a T shape.

[Em]

Interesting.

[Christine]

So apparently they found out later that this is actually a commonly used tactic for controlling captives, because stacking people kind of perpendicular like that makes it a lot more difficult for them to move without creating sort of a commotion.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

I did not know that. But apparently that is something you learn in sort of either military or police training, that kind of thing. So the intruder told Bunny and Bob that he got into the house because they left one of their doors open and presumably unlocked we're not sure. And told them they shouldn't do that.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

This is when it starts to feel like, like just, I mean, just worst true movie of all time. Yeah.

[Em]

No words.

[Christine]

He asked who lived in the home, and Bunny said, it's just us and our daughter. The intruder asked them to hand over any money they had. And Bob pulled out the cash from his pockets. And as they're listening to this guy speak, he seems to speak in a tone that's like he's affecting a higher pitch to try and sound like a different person so that his voice doesn't sound the same. So he's talking in this weird way. He's also, according to Bob, trying to sound like comforting. Like it just. Everything about this gets creepier by the moment.

[Em]

And also a high pitched voice like, this is not meant to be funny, but like, if all of a sudden, like, it's somehow even creepier.

[Christine]

It's way scarier. And it's like if you're trying to sound comforting and you're not in sounding that way, obviously, because you're literally attacking these people.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Just the, the, the contrast between that is so horrifying. Oh, it's chilling. So Bob says that, yes, he felt like this guy was trying to sound kind and comforting and like, raising his voice to be gentle and meanwhile, you know, obviously acting completely differently, forcing them on their knees and on the ground.

[Em]

Well, you hope he's just gonna rob you and leave. And like, maybe, maybe he is trying to be comforting of like, I don't want to hurt anybody. I just want to steal your money. Like, I don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah. So hopefully that's. Yeah, that's like the best possible outcome, I would say, in this case. Case. So he told them, just like you said, he didn't want to hurt them. He was only here to burglarize them. But he was pacing back and forth nervously and they're offering him everything. They're saying, take money. Apparently Bunny was wearing $5,000 worth of jewelry. And he was like, no, I don't want that. He didn't want the watch. He didn't want jewelry. He. They were offering him cash. They said, take our car. He just wasn't going for it. And I think that was also starting to obviously raise even more. Alar, like, if you're here to burglarize us, just do it.

[Em]

Yeah. You know, and, you know, the pacing is him wondering, like, if I, if I leave them here, then there's like a chance of, like, the police Being called. Like, there's like, no.

[Christine]

He has to be, like, pondering something or, like.

[Em]

Like they know something.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. It's. It's like you just want this to be over, you know? He kept pacing back and forth, pacing back and forth. And they were asking, you know, take this, take that. He said he was waiting for his ride.

[Em]

Ride. Okay.

[Christine]

So they're like, what the. This guy's pacing around, apparently waiting for his ride. Then he asked them, when will your daughter be home?

[Em]

I know she's not. She's in. She's a sleepaway camp. She's not coming back.

[Christine]

What?

[Em]

That's. That's what I would have said. I would have been like, she's gone.

[Christine]

Oh, oh, right. That she's not here. Right, exactly. So he asked when their daughter would come home. They're like, take one of our cars from the garage, please. Just take our car and go, you know, get out of here. He asked if the cars were stick shifts, and they said yes. And so he just kept pacing. And it's like, well, you know, like, of all things to go wrong, they asked him if they could go outside and, like, stand. Stand out there within his view where it would be impossible for them to run away, but where they would at least be, like, outdoors. I think they just wanted out of the house at this point. But he refused. So he remained that way, pacing while they laid on the ground, kind of like perpendicular on top of each other.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And eventually, headlights shine down the driveway. And instead of feeling relieved like his ride was here, he seemed to snap. He. He leapt on top of Bob and Bunny with the dagger in his hand, and he brought the blade down with full force and stabbed Bob in the head Next. Oh, my God. I mean, this is a lot of graphic. So just a warning. Trigger warning. He cut Bunny across her throat, and then he stabbed her in the back. And then he stabbed her again in the neck. He attacked her so ferociously again, trigger warning here that she could feel and hear bones in her neck breaking or crunching.

[Em]

God.

[Christine]

And the way it was described is that it was so without warning. It was like he was just pacing around. And then, like, in an instant, he flipped on a dime and just went ballistic.

[Em]

I feel like he just. He panicked, realizing that someone was going to find out.

[Christine]

Exactly. Just full on panicked. And, oh, my God, he hadn't even been, like, shouting. There was no. There was no warning that this was coming at all. Bunny thought it was as if a switch inside him flipped. And Bob, at this point, still alive. He has to get outside and scream for help. That's all he knows. He makes a break for it while this guy's still there.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

He runs outside through the driveway and makes it somehow to a phone to call 91 1. He tells the police he and his wife were stabbed multiple times. They were bleeding badly. The attacker, meanwhile, fled on foot, sort of following Bob out after he ran, kind of noticing that Bob. Bob had run, but then he ran off. So he tells the police, please come quickly. We've been stabbed. We've been attacked. Thank God. Emergency services arrive. Bob and Bunny are both transported to the hospital and incredibly, both survived.

[Em]

Oh, my God. I did not see that coming.

[Christine]

I know, Me neither. And they actually recovered in that, you know, they're. They're able to kind of use all their faculty.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

I injured.

[Em]

Really thought this was going to turn out a different way.

[Christine]

So the whole ordeal, which I mentioned just to give you an idea of, like, how, I mean, I guess just how quick this all happened, 25 minutes from start to end, from when they got to the house, saw this guy, to, you know, getting the ambulance on the scene, when was a whole 25 minutes, which is just, just crazy, mind blowing. So they're in the hospital, they're both alive, thank God. But a pastor arrives to speak with Bunny, and he tells her he has some bad news. Amy had not survived the attack. Now, Bob and Bunny are confused because as far as they knew, Amy wasn't even home. And so they're thinking, right, impossible. You're confused, you know.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But detectives inform her that as it turns out, the headlights that had triggered the intruder to attack had belonged to Amy and she had just gotten home. Like her parents, she had no suspicion that anything was wrong. And when Bob ran outside for help right after the headlights appeared, the intruder had followed him out, had spotted Amy behind her car. Meanwhile, Bob was in survival mode. He had not seen Amy behind her car. The attacker, Bob thought, had fled into the night and he had ran straight to the car, not after stabbing Amy first and killing her. So just the idea, I mean, to think of he's chasing Bob and then he sees Amy and stops cops, and he turned around and went to attack Amy. And again, all of this was a total of 25 minutes. Her parents didn't even know she was there, and now they had to find out she was dead. Because the same.

[Em]

I mean, I can't. I can't imagine having already the worst night of your life and like, thinking, how am I going to recover from that. Oh, actually, the worst. The only thing worse than that actually also happened exactly.

[Christine]

Like, the shock of that would be horrific.

[Em]

No, I wouldn't recover.

[Christine]

Yeah, no, I mean, it's. It's really unthinkable. And she was just standing behind her car. She had no clue.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

What was going on. And all of a sudden, the attacker turned, and Amy struggled with him. He actually cut slash marks into her backpack. Then he stabbed her, and she broke away, and she ran across the street to an apartment complex, but she collapsed. Collapsed there in the lot. And even though police responded, within minutes, she had already succumbed to her wounds. So investigators are looking at this, and they're thinking, well, we're going to solve this quickly. Like, this is crazy violent. This is, like, clearly personal. This is.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Targeted, you know, we're gonna figure this out. Also, violent crime in this neighborhood was not normal, not usual. And so they figured, oh, well, certainly will find a motive quickly, you know. So the motive turned out to be, unfortunately, much less clear than they thought, because we obviously know by now the intruder didn't seem interested in the money. You know, they were offering him jewelry and cash, and he didn't want it. He took a little bit of cash. He took a couple credit cards, but he didn't take any valuables in the house. Investigators noted that their house was one of the nicest in the neighborhood. It was right beside the beach speech. And it would have been the ideal target for a burglary. So why not take something or take things, you know, if you're gonna go through such trouble, so to speak. And also, like, what was the motive for such a violent attack? You know, he didn't need to be so brazenly, you know, violent and.

[Em]

Yeah. Brutal and. And just snapping out of nowhere. The. The pacing. I mean, all of it is.

[Christine]

It doesn't fit. It doesn't fit a normal, you know, know, quote, unquote, normal burglary. Detectives did find a gun magazine at the scene, which the intruder dropped. Not like a magazine to read.

[Em]

Right, Right.

[Christine]

I was confused when I first heard that, and I went, a gun magazine. Maybe they're fingerprints. Whatever.

[Em]

Anyway, like NRA's weekly.

[Christine]

Weekly top bast. Calendar. Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So they found this magazine from a gun, and apparently this guy did not mean to drop it because when they found. Appeared to have fallen during his struggle with Amy. And the magazine came from a prop gun. So now they're thinking, okay, wow, this wasn't even a real gun. It. However, it looked real. It looked like a real gun, which Means it was probably designed for use in play theater plays or films. Right. Because otherwise, you know, you wouldn't have such a realistic looking gun right at hand. So police inquired about the prop with local theaters, acting groups, but nobody was missing a prop weapon. None had been loaned out. And so that felt sort of like a dead end. But the murder weapon itself was that dagger that I mentioned. Bunny and Bob described this dagger as having an ornate, decorative hilt that looked like interwoven gold chains.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

Like this? Very.

[Em]

So it's very specific.

[Christine]

Yes, very specific, very unique. Actually, here I have a picture of how they drew it. The sketch artist drew it, you know, to show what it looked like. And it has this.

[Em]

Oh, wow.

[Christine]

Braided sort of. And, you know, this is done in black and white, but it. It was a gold. An ornate gold piece above the hilt. And they weren't able to see the hilt because. Because the man had his hand over it the whole time and he was wearing gloves also. But they did see that. And that dagger has never been found, nor has the prop gun. So just a heads up. Yeah. So if anyone's curious, take a look because maybe you've seen it. The killer himself was described as average height, medium build, and Caucasian because he was fully covered up. But they could see the contrast between the black mask he was wearing and the lighter skin underneath. And so he was Caucasian. Bunny noted that he seemed to have an accent from the Atlantic coast, specifically Maryland or Pennsylvania.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And she knew that, I believe, because she had lived up there for some time, so she recognized the difference between, you know, people she knew locally in Florida and that Atlantic accent. Meanwhile, investigators believe he may have had military or police training because of the way he made. Made Bunny and Bob lie down on the floor. So police are kind of taking all this into consideration, and they begin to look into a man called Jeffrey Anderson.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

He's a burglar involved. He was a burglar involved in a police chase the day after the murder. And when they caught him, he was driving a stolen car. After the chase, Bunny's stolen credit cards were found nearby on the side of the road. And so they're thinking, oh, he must have thrown them out the window during the car chase so that, like, they didn't connect him to the crime. But neither Bob nor Bunny picked him out in a voice lineup. There was no evidence to link him to the cards or the crime. And so that was kind of another dead end. They looked at another angle, which was the fact that Bunny and Bob were both therapists and so, variety of clients, right? So they're thinking, hey, maybe this is a former patient with a. With a grudge. Who knows?

[Em]

Or just.

[Christine]

Just.

[Em]

Sorry I was gonna say. Or just someone who's just struggling with mental illness, period.

[Christine]

Someone struggling with mental illness. Yeah, exactly. And they. They looked into that, thinking, is there anybody who's maybe unstable or who would have some motive to harm you? But looking through everything and talking to both of them, there was no evidence to support this theory. Not a single patient wild would fit the bill. Investigators began to suspect now that the motive was. Was Amy. To harm Amy. Her arrival was the thing that triggered the attack. And the murderer let Bob go to target Amy, even though sensibly. I mean, not that you're.

[Em]

He already had someone locked in that he could.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. And also, you know, Bob has heard him speaking and would be maybe more of a. A risk to let go.

[Em]

Could it have been like a drug deal gone wrong if she got back into, like, weed? Like. Or maybe. Well, could have been someone from straight that. Like. Because it wasn't it that one guy who got back in touch and he was, like, doing some hard drugs.

[Christine]

Interesting. M. You are. You are. You are.

[Em]

It's almost as if you mentioned him for a reason.

[Christine]

It's almost. Okay, no, give yourself more credit. That was a very good angle, because we are absolutely going to get there. And you're onto something. You're on to more than something. Okay, so, you know, now they're thinking, okay, well, then obviously it seems like Amy might have had something to do with that, with the attack. Worth noting, though, that when Bunny told the attacker that she lived in the house with Bob and their daughter, the attacker never mentioned Amy by name. He only said your daughter. And so, you know, it didn't rule out that he knew about Amy. Like, maybe he just didn't know her name, or maybe he was pretending not to know her name or not using it on purpose. But either way, he didn't say Amy. He just said your daughter. Okay, so they looked at people in Amy's life. Her friend Scott became a person of interest just hours after the attack. He was the guy that had gotten in touch from the Straight program and had been into a little more than just weed, including crack cocaine.

[Em]

Name.

[Christine]

He had actually been at Amy's house earlier that day and was the last friend known to have visited her before her death.

[Em]

You don't say.

[Christine]

And interestingly, 30 minutes after she was killed, Scott left a voicemail on her answering machine. Just coincidence.

[Em]

Just. Just catching up without catching up any awareness of what's going on right now.

[Christine]

He said, quote, gellert, it's Scott. It's like 9:30. It's too late to go out. I'll give you a ring about later this week. Week. See ya. And that was a voicemail.

[Em]

Fishy, fishy.

[Christine]

Those, very fishy. So the day after the attack, well, the police officers, I want to say, I want to say like fishy from not just our perspective, but actually from investigators. They were like, we don't believe in coincidences necessarily. Like, this is a little too weird, like to be a coincidence. So anyway, to give us a little bit of cred here, here, you know. So the day after the attack, Scott spoke with police because they're like, well, you called her right after she was killed. You know, no coincidence. Explain it. He said, oh, well, we had plans that night, but they fell through. Now, interestingly, of course they fell through.

[Em]

She died.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, that too, exactly. But Amy's best friend Andrea said, no way did they have plans. Amy and I had plans to walk down the beach. And being her best friend, I would know if she had double booked herself or I would know if she also planned to meet Scott. Like, she was like, no, she didn't have plans to meet Scott. And I don't know, I don't know about you, but I trust the friend who is like, hey, I'm her best friend. I'm her best friend and I had plans with her that night. So interestingly, days before she was killed, Amy had actually asked one of her brothers, Ryan, to drive her to Scott's apartment because he owed her money and he lived there with his parents and she wanted to stop by. And you know, the theory is in this case that perhaps she was scared to go alone and wanted her brother to go along with her because she needed to confront him but was scared to do it solo. Which makes sense. I don't believe that drive ever happened. It's a little unclear to me whether they actually went to the apartment. But when, when police heard this that Scott potentially owed Amy money, they of course asked Scott about it. Here's what he said in his version of events. Scott, they didn't come to his house. Scott told his dad, hey, dad, I owe my friend Amy $30. Can I borrow 30 bucks? And by the way, I also need a ride to her house. So apparently Scott's dad, dad, according to Scott, gives him $30 and a ride to Amy's place. But then Scott's like, but actually I kept the $30 for myself. Because I wanted to buy drugs. And that's the story of how he was, why he was at her house that night. And he. It's very unclear like what he's trying to accomplish with that story.

[Em]

Like, it's like he did. I did borrow money, but I didn't give it to her, even though I did owe.

[Christine]

Right.

[Em]

Also, I didn't do anything to do.

[Christine]

Drugs, but that's the only reason I would have been at her house to trick my dad. It's just so weird. It's so weird. And anyway, of course he's like ringing off alarm bells with police. He tells them he spent the evening using drugs and driving around town and that he got home before 9pm and his parents confirmed the story, which, you know, can't necessarily be the most convincing alibi, but whatever.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Investigators, however, did not find any blood in his vehicle, which would have been difficult because this guy was literally cutting Bunny's throat and stabbing them in the neck and the head. I mean, there would have been blood everywhere. Yeah, yeah. And so it seemed unusual that there was no physical evidence because nothing linked him to the crime. There was no blood on his hands. There was no sign on his body of a violent struggle, and Amy had fought back. So it was unclear if he was at all connected and if so, how. So time just continued to pass and Amy's family had to both recover from the attack and also wait to see if they can figure out what happened to their daughter. In 1995, Scott from from just now was accused of kidnapping his girlfriend's child for money to buy drugs. Drugs.

[Em]

Oh my.

[Christine]

And when he was brought in for questioning, they asked him again about Amy and he continued to maintain his innocence. He's still not looking like a great guy, but he still claims he had nothing to do with her death. Then, a year after Amy's death, a tip led investigators to someone new. This was 21 year old Dominic Kanika. Dominic was a local cook from Pennsylvania who had recently moved to the area with his girlfriend, Julie Flounder. She.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

One of Julie's co workers made a tip to police claiming they overheard Julie say her boyfriend was possibly involved in Amy's murder. He had recently received training in the Marine Corps, which would kind of align with how they thought he may have military training. And considering he was from Pennsylvania, he may have had that Atlanta, Atlanta Atlantic accent that Bunny was talking about. So that would be. Make some sort of sense.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Even more interesting, the day after the murder, Dominic had stolen a car and left town. So that's also a weird coincidence.

[Em]

Certainly fishy.

[Christine]

As we said earlier, investigators tracked him down all the way in Pennsylvania, and guess what? He admitted to being at the crime scene the night Amy was murdered.

[Em]

He is bad at this. He.

[Christine]

He's so. They're so bad at this.

[Em]

It's like he didn't even try. Did he just. Did he do that thing where. Because, I mean, the last guy, he panicked, and. Could this guy have just panicked and been like, you're right. You're right. You got me.

[Christine]

He didn't say he did it. He just said he was at the crime scene.

[Em]

Okay, well, then he is.

[Christine]

Hey, hold your horses. Don't get ahead of yourself, okay? They're like. He's like, I was at the crime scene. And they're like, wait, what? Really? And he's like, yeah, well, I was on my way home from work when I saw police lights and fire trucks in front of Amy's house. So I pulled over to see what was going on. And then investigators. I'm not even making this up. This is literally what he said. I mean, he's making it up, but I'm not. He told investigators that he assisted the deputy on the scene in putting up crime scene tape.

[Em]

No, you did not.

[Christine]

Like, no, you did not stop.

[Em]

And also, if you.

[Christine]

Don't be ridiculous.

[Em]

There is. Then where is that person who could confirm?

[Christine]

Literally nobody. They weren't able to prove it's true, but they also weren't able to prove it's untrue. So it's like, what the. And I'm like, it's not true. Please. Basically, investigators say it would be extremely unusual. I think it's like one of those cases where they can't see. Say, it would be impossible because a lawyer would say, like, well, would it be possible? Would it be possible? And they'd say, sure, but extremely unlikely for first responders to just allow passersby to, like, put up crime scene tape. I mean, and, like.

[Em]

And, like, potentially ruin a crime scene, too. For sure.

[Christine]

Just. Yeah, just get involved at all. Like, that's like, step aside. This isn't for you. I don't know.

[Em]

So.

[Christine]

But unless, like, frenetic energy and maybe he jumped in. I don't know. I don't want to say, like. Like, for sure, for certain.

[Em]

But I got me a feeling, Christine, he's the one. I'm just telling you now what my bet is.

[Christine]

Your theory so far. Okay, I like it. They also checked his time sheet at work, and guess what? He hadn't clocked in that night. And so. Hm. Very weird that he said he was driving home from work, didn't go to work, and then he was at the crime scene. Weird.

[Em]

Great point. Great point, Christine.

[Christine]

Yeah, thanks. I didn't make it, but it is a great point.

[Em]

I know. I'm the best.

[Christine]

I'm happy to be the messenger, though. So for whatever reason, though, they never did a voice lineup with this guy. And so.

[Em]

Well, that's. Could you really, though? Because you would. They would just say do it in a higher pitch.

[Christine]

Oh, that's true. And you'd have to, like, access your voice to.

[Em]

If you're already making up a voice, you just make up another voice, you know?

[Christine]

I guess. But you could say, like, say this sentence in a comforting way or something and then.

[Em]

That's true.

[Christine]

Hear the different. Even. I don't know. I don't know. They did it with the other guy, so it would have been nice. You're right to do both.

[Em]

You're right.

[Christine]

But whatever. And again, this guy's the one from Pennsylvania, so it's like, hey, even better reason to do it.

[Em]

That's a good point.

[Christine]

You know, so in 2013, we have another guy. So we're fast forwarding now 2013, this other guy comes on the picture. He is called Hugh Popple, and he becomes a suspect because he had once been in a relationship with Amy. Years later, he died in a hit and run accident. And apparently somebody made a comment that it was, quote, karma for what he had done to Amy.

[Em]

What now?

[Christine]

Yeah, okay.

[Em]

Yeah, okay. It's an interesting thing to say.

[Christine]

It is. And so of course, this gets brought to police, they do an investigation, they look into him, but nothing links him to the freaking case. It's just like. It's all these immediate, like these alarming statements and then like nothing, you know?

[Em]

Yeah, that was very. It felt telling to say something like that.

[Christine]

It did, but it's like maybe that person just had a theory and it wasn't true, you know, but. So investigators have considered maybe the murderer was a neighbor or somebody the family knew. It did seem like he obviously planned to kill the family. But then he also was wearing a full mask. Right. And so they were thinking, well, maybe he didn't want the neighbors to see him. Maybe they would have recognized him. Sure. If. If he had already been planning to kill the whole family, why would he have had to wear such a. Such an intense disguise? And so they thought maybe, like, he didn't want other people around to see in case they recognized him. It's. It's unclear. Clear. In 2014, cold case investigators began re interviewing persons of interest in the case. They spoke to Julie Flounders, who was the girlfriend of that Pennsylvania chef, Dominic, the one that you said you think is the best bet so far. And she's the one who allegedly was overheard saying her boyfriend may have been involved in Amy's death. Julie had originally denied having ever said Dominic might have been involved in Amy's killing. But when they Talked to her 20 years later, she said she may have made a joke about it back then. Haha, haha. But she insisted it was just like a side comment, like a joke. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously and that he never actually made any confession to her. And when they look back on the original paperwork with Dominic Nick, it turns out he had originally told investigators he was driving Julie's Jeep the night of the murder and that he told Julie he had been at the crime scene, remember doing the crime scene tape. But two decades later, Julie was like, I, I'll be honest, I don't remember. I don't remember if I loaned him Julie. I know, I don't remember if he stopped at the crime scene or whether he told me about it. And it's like, what the dude?

[Em]

Like which, like you, you have, you have to hope that that's a good sign that she doesn't really remember because.

[Christine]

If, if that's true, that's true.

[Em]

I guess if he said something really dastardly, she would remember.

[Christine]

However, get this.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

Because you're right. You would be right in one aspect. However. In a CBS 48 Hour Special that covered the case, Julie initially agreed to speak to reporters in an interview, but then she backed out because she claimed to be afraid of Dominic because at the time of the production, he was in prison for drug possession and robbery. So you know, maybe she really doesn't remember or maybe she's afraid and you know, I can sort of understand that angle as well. You know, maybe, maybe she's just not speaking up because she's, she's, she's afraid.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

So Dominic himself had also agreed to speak with Cold Case Unit investigators. But, but when he did speak with them, he really didn't have anything else to offer to the case. He just kind of wanted to talk about everything else they said, just like about the weather, about their day, I don't know, just chit chat. And so that was not really helpful. So now the shady friend Scott, who had stopped by her house the day she was killed and who had left her that Voicemail. Thirty minutes later, he also agreed to an interview with the 48 Hours News Team, but he bailed while they were on the way to see him, which always feels to me like kind of a power trip, you know, like they've already, like, flown in and they're already driving there, and then you bail. I don't know.

[Em]

Yeah, it does. It feels like you get to be the center of attention for the day.

[Christine]

And instead, he ended up writing a letter maintaining his innocence in the case and his desire for the real truth to come out. Out. So whatever he basically wrote, the fact that anybody thought I could be part of such a horrible crime nauseated me. And it's like, okay. So the investigation remains open. Detectives on the case continue to try to put pieces together until something clicks. Here's one interesting theory which I feel like is one that is currently being looked into or it hasn't been dismissed yet. So Scott Stadt. Scott is the one that I just mentioned who was at the house.

[Em]

Voicemail guy.

[Christine]

Yeah, voicemail guy. His dad said Scott had actually once had a job interview at the restaurant where Dominic, the chef, worked. Shut up the cook. And it could be a coincidence, but investigators have considered that Scott and Dominic knew each other. And also, I will say in the documentary, they mentioned one other employee, recognizing both of them and saying, like, I've seen that guy come in.

[Em]

So there's been overlap.

[Christine]

So there has potentially been very, very, potentially close overlap, maybe.

[Em]

Sort of.

[Christine]

Kind of, yes. And so they have looked into this, and they're thinking maybe if they themselves didn't kill Amy. Remember, Scott didn't have any marks on him or blood in his car. Maybe they were involved or maybe they know who did, you know?

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

They were both acting a little weird that day. Day. There is, however, no known evidence to prove this theory. So for now, it's just a theory. DNA was discovered on the prop guns magazine, but it has not been identified. And detectives told. Told reporters that it might not even belong to the intruder because, again, he was wearing gloves and, like, it's a prop gun. Maybe somebody else was using it or handed it to him or. Or got their DNA.

[Em]

He could have gone. I mean, it could be as random as he went to a theater and.

[Christine]

Stole it, like, Exactly.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

It could just have somebody else's DNA on it. So they were like, we can't rely on that DNA because it might be somebody else's, you know, so. The anniversary of the attack, of course, still haunts Amy's family, especially because the case is still Technically open. So in an interview, Bunny said. And again, this is a little bit of a trigger warning here. It's hard to listen to, but she said that she could still vividly imagine the sound of the attack, of the knife in her neck. And she says that really, like. I mean, talk about ptsd.

[Em]

Like, you would only ever hear that again. Yeah.

[Christine]

Of hearing that sound over and over. Amy's brother Mark said that not a single day goes by that he and his family don't think about Amy. And Ryan said Amy's death changed them profoundly, both as a family and as individuals. Rules.

[Em]

Yeah, I. There's no other way. Yeah.

[Christine]

Just turn everything upside down forever, you know? Bunny finds comfort in her faith. She said she knows where Amy is, and that brings her peace. But the trauma of the attack, it's. It's like. I mean, just. It's so crazy to hear of a story where it's not only the trauma of having a loved one, a child going through the attack, but then being part of the attack.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

You know, just all of it is so.

[Em]

And also have to hear, like, that maybe she suffered and.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. And fought and it's all. It's really horrific. And that they survived and didn't even know she was there. I mean, it just. All of it is layers of bad. So, like I said, Bunny finds comfort in her faith. She said she knows where Amy is. That brings her peace. But the trauma of the attack and the loss is something that, of course, never goes away. When asked whether the grief ever becomes easier to manage, she said, quote, I don't think it comes in equations like, easy or hard. I think it comes like, you don't want to forget that person. You don't want to ever get over them. We wouldn't want to get over Amy.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I really makes my stomach terrible. Investigators are confident that somebody out there still living has crucial information that will finally resolve this case. Case. And bring justice to Amy and her family. Amy's family, they're very private. They really don't like to be outspoken, except for if it's, you know, in. In honor of the cause of keeping Amy's name out there and the case out there, they hesitated to the 48 hour special that rekindled public interest because, you know, they are so private. But they decided to do it to, you know, with the hopes that it would ignite somebody's memory or some sort of flashback or some click in their mind that would maybe inspire them to make a tip that could lead to solving this case. I am Presenting it with that same hope. So I will give resources in a moment of where you can check out, you know, more specific details about the case, pictures, you know, of the dagger, drawing of the dagger, that kind of thing. You know, if that sparks anyone's memory. Detectives working the case did receive some phone calls after the 48 Hours special aired. Some were from former military employees who said the type of prop weapon used in the crime was also used not just by theaters and film makers, but by military personnel for training. And they were used specifically that model in the decade that Amy was. Was killed. So that actually. And remember, they looked through all the theaters in town and nobody was missing a gun, a prop gun. And so I think that's a really good theory, too, that this person would have had the gun from military training.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

Sometime that decade.

[Em]

Well, to also the stacking, like you said.

[Christine]

Yes, exactly. And so that kind of really aligns. So, you know, that's something else to consider if you're thinking about this case. And so that, you know, bolsters the theory that he had military training. Despite the tips that came in after the special aired, the case still remains open. It is vital to the cold case team to Amy, Bunny, Ryan, Bob, Mark, that the memory of Amy and her case remain in the public light until answers come. And on that note, if anybody has information, you are asked to contact either the Brevard County Homicide Unit, you can call them at 321-633-8413 or email them at Major Crimes B.C. so us. Or you can contact the Central Florida Crime Line, 1-800-423-TIPS. And it's also important to note that you may remain anonymous if you do make a call or write an email. So thank you for listening to that story. I know it was sad and we kind of, you know, we get. We got in our laughs in the beginning, but we got.

[Em]

We got them in there.

[Christine]

There. It. It pretty much devolved into just sadness, as usual. So that's the story of Amy Gellert. It's. It's pretty tragic and it's really not very well known. And it's just. It's always hard to hear that a family doesn't have answers yet, you know?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And then to live in fear, like you've been attacked by that person.

[Em]

I mean, I've.

[Christine]

And they're still out there.

[Em]

I've said it so many times. And not that that's like a. I'm just, I'm. I would. If I were in that situation, I would constantly be petrified. Every time I was alone in a room ever again, I would. Where's every exit? How do I get out? Is everything locked? I mean, you can't even leave your house. You can't leave your house. And then when you do, you're petrified of going back and you're still thinking the whole time, could someone have gotten in?

[Christine]

I'm always amazed when people are able to be as, you know, healed and functional and, like, with it as they are. And, you know, I've heard it said, too. Like, hey, we have to be like, there's not a choice. And I'm like, I understand that, too. Like, I get it. But they're like, you have other kids, you know, like, you just go into full survival. I mean, some people maybe can't cope, but I feel like a lot of times it's almost like just an instinctive, like. Like you just have to power through because there's no other way.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

It's just horrible. It's horrible.

[Em]

Yeah, there's. There's. I don't think I. I mean, I guess again, like you said, you have to be strong, but I don't know if I have it in me like, I have. I. I guess nobody knows if they have it in them until they're already there, so.

[Christine]

Exactly.

[Em]

Anyway, I don't know what to say, Christine. Good story, but, wow, talk about traumatic.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a wild one. And, you know, doing more kind of cold cases and other things. I don't know. I've been. I've been back on my little rabbit hole game in the middle of the night looking for different stories and unsolved things. So, yeah, we'll keep at it, but in the meantime, you can come join us at our Yappy Hour, where we decompress. We, you know, change the subject a little bit. We talk about Hank and, yeah, his beautiful genetic makeup. I can't wait. Oh, I. Yeah, if you want to do that, you can check your app of choice, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or you can sign up on patreon patreon.com ATWDpodcast and you can stream the Yappy Hour audio straight to your phone on your podcast player. You have to just import the RSS feed or it shows up automatically, and that's that.

[Em]

Yes, please come decompress with us. We could use it. I'm sure you guys could, too. And that's why we drink.