E441 Canada’s Sweetheart and Wingman of the Century

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink – Episode E441: Canada’s Sweetheart and Wingman of the Century

Release Date: July 20, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Guest: Dax Shepard

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1. Introduction and ZipRecruiter Endorsement (00:00 – 01:21)

The episode opens with Christine Schiefer passionately endorsing ZipRecruiter, highlighting its efficiency in finding quality candidates swiftly. She shares a personal success story about hiring Eva through ZipRecruiter in just 30 seconds, defying the usual trade-off between speed and quality.

Notable Quote:

Christine (00:25): "With ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day."

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2. Special Guest Appearance: Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard (01:21 – 02:05)

Kristen Bell and her husband Dax Shepard briefly join the conversation, promoting Carvana as an easy solution for selling cars. Their segment is brief, providing a light-hearted interlude before the main content resumes.

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3. Journey to Canada: Em’s Adventure (02:05 – 08:00)

Em Schulz introduces her trip to Canada, expressing long-held dreams of visiting the country. She recounts her experiences upon arrival, including first impressions and navigating typical tourist activities with Eva as her "wingwoman." The hosts engage in a playful drinking game, setting humorous rules for listeners to participate during the episode.

Notable Quote:

Em Schulz (03:15): "I have been wanting to come to Canada since I was 12 years old... I still believe it."

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4. Ghost Stories: Dead Man's Island and Highcroft Manor (09:00 – 44:39)

Em delves into two chilling ghost stories centered around Canadian locations:

a. Dead Man's Island (13:57 – 29:48)

Em narrates the haunted history of Dead Man's Island, a former burial ground turned naval base. She details the island's transformation and the numerous paranormal activities reported by personnel, including apparitions, unexplained noises, and shadow sightings. Personal anecdotes and historical accounts add depth to the eerie atmosphere.

Notable Quote:

Em Schulz (16:48): "The legend is that after all the Northern tribe warriors died that day, the next day, all of the flowers on that entire part of the island set on fire by themselves."

b. Highcroft Manor (38:31 – 44:39)

The second story focuses on Highcroft Manor, an upscale venue with its own haunted legacy. Em describes the manor's history, detailing the ghosts that inhabit it, such as an older man in a World War I uniform and a well-dressed lady. She shares accounts of paranormal activities reported during film shootings, including interactions with the supernatural entities.

Notable Quote:

Em Schulz (41:09): "They are mostly peaceful and protective... the spirits are most active when the manor is being used as a filming location."

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5. Commercial Breaks and Advertisements (Skipped)

As per instructions, advertisements and non-content segments are omitted from this summary.

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6. The Vancouver Milkshake Murder: A True Crime Tale (47:48 – 66:30)

The episode shifts to a gripping true crime story narrated by Dax Shepard, focusing on the infamous Vancouver Milkshake Murder of the mid-1960s.

a. Background and Affair (49:18 – 53:31)

Rene Castellani, a charismatic radio personality known for his extravagant stunts, is embroiled in an extramarital affair with Adelaide "Lolly" Miller. His wife, Esther, discovers the affair through a suspicious phone call and a love note, leading to mounting tensions and Esther's mysterious severe illness.

Notable Quote:

Dax Shepard (54:05): "Renee had displayed a remarkable lack of empathy for his dying wife. Shocking."

b. Esther’s Mysterious Illness (53:31 – 58:04)

Esther’s rapid decline in health baffles medical professionals, ultimately revealing arsenic poisoning. Evidence points directly to Rene, who had been tampering with his wife's milkshakes using arsenic-laden weed killer.

Notable Quote:

Dax Shepard (60:15): "He had committed the ultimate crime. Poisoning someone's milkshake in Canada."

c. Trial and Aftermath (58:04 – 62:25)

Rene is convicted of first-degree murder based on circumstantial evidence and his suspicious behavior. The death penalty is suspended shortly before his execution, leading to his eventual death from cancer before serving his full sentence. Rene's daughter, Janine, grapples with her father's guilt and the loss of her parents.

Notable Quote:

Dax Shepard (62:19): "Woo, yay, boo just covers all the spectrum of possible reactions."

d. Legacy and Reflection (62:25 – 66:30)

The case remains a dark chapter in Vancouver's history, commemorated by exhibits at the Vancouver Police Museum. Author Eve Lazarus's book, Murder by Milkshake, revisits the case, offering deeper insights and personal reflections from Janine.

Notable Quote:

Dax Shepard (65:32): "I am not past the anger yet, but I'm hoping to get there soon."

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7. Closing Remarks and Final Ads (66:22 – End)

The hosts wrap up the episode with light-hearted banter and final advertisements for Chime Banking and Smalls cat food. They express gratitude to listeners and reflect on the captivating stories shared.

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Conclusion:

Episode E441 of "And That's Why We Drink" takes listeners on a multifaceted journey through personal anecdotes, paranormal tales, and a haunting true crime story set in Canada. Hosted by Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz, with special guest Dax Shepard, the episode skillfully blends engaging narratives with interactive elements like the drinking game, ensuring a captivating experience for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.

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Note: For more in-depth details and the full experience, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full podcast episode.

Transcript

[Christine]

We talk about it every time, folks. We love Eva. We love that we were able to find her so quickly. We were desperately. We were drowning when we needed somebody to come in, help us out. At the time, it was just emails and social media, and it very quickly turned into like, we need you to go ghost hunting in the basement. Do you mind, man? No one like Eva. And we wouldn't have found her if it weren't for ZipRecruiter. Typically, you don't associate speed with quality, but in her case, we were able to find her in like 30 seconds.

[Em]

It's crazy.

[Christine]

ZipRecruiter was able to do that for us. Like I said, usually speed and quality don't mix. But there is an exception to that unwritten rule. If you're hiring, you can find candidates fast who are also extremely qualified for your job. Just use ZipRecruiter. And right now you can use ZipRecruiter for [e-mail] Drink. It is so easy to use. It is so helpful. I mean, really, we have. I mean, we have ZipRecruiter to thank for everything that's happened so far. Anything Eva has touched, that's ZipRecruiter's responsibility, or was their responsibility for sure. It's also something that I'm incredibly grateful for. So thank you. ZipRecruiter experience hiring, speed and quality. With ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. We were one of those four out of five. And if you go to ziprecruiter.com drink right now, you can try it for free again, that's ziprecruiter.com drink ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire.

[Kristen Bell]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell, and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Dax Shepard]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Kristen Bell]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license, and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.

[Em]

Bye bye, Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[Em]

Hello, other Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello, everybody. Real quick, I want to introduce somebody very special. It's a certain special someone. Canada's sweetheart, M. Schultz.

[Em]

Hello, Canada. Wow, has this been a long time coming?

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, oh, I'll try to be. Oh, no. I saw Evan. I was like, I Give up. I give up.

[Em]

Listen, I had a bananas time in Canada today. Whoever. Oh by the way, this is about me now.

[Dax Shepard]

Is anyone surprised?

[Em]

Who. So, okay, whoever's watched my Instagram is pretty much on track with what's happened to the. But I just had quite a blast for everyone who got dragged here by significant others and don't know what's happening.

[Dax Shepard]

They're like, please, let's go home now.

[Em]

I. I've been wanting to come to Canada since I was 12 years old. I remember there being some. There's some weird video on YouTube that just like convinced me I need to move here. And I've been telling my mom every day since then, I will move to Canada one day. And I still believe it.

[Dax Shepard]

And Em signed a lease. No.

[Em]

And we went apartment shopping. No. But I have been wanting to come here for I guess now over 14 years. And so I was like, I'm going out with a fucking bang. I'm here for 24 hours and I'm gonna make the most of it. So I did all the. Very clearly I did some stereotypical touristy things today.

[Dax Shepard]

Shocker.

[Em]

Eva was my wing woman today.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I went far away. I was like, I'm really.

[Em]

Christine was like, I don't even wanna. The world would implode if we were.

[Dax Shepard]

In the same sp plans by myself.

[Em]

So Eva was just the world's best.

[Dax Shepard]

Enabler, like the wingman of the century.

[Em]

And every time I wanted to go anywhere, she was like, do you? And I was like.

[Dax Shepard]

And I hold the camera.

[Em]

Right. So we first of all, we started, we had a Tim Hortons donut. So I know that's not like the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

We literally landed and everyone was like, here's a Tim Hortons donut.

[Em]

And I was like, oh boy.

[Dax Shepard]

And they were like, it's not that great. And Em was like, I was like.

[Em]

No, this is hard.

[Dax Shepard]

This is in their eyes.

[Em]

I clearly went shopping. Yeah, I went shopping at about five to six to 19 different places today and bought a whole lot.

[Dax Shepard]

I would like to add though that the flag came with us on the plane.

[Em]

The flags from America.

[Dax Shepard]

That was a pre planned accessory.

[Em]

I bought this like three months ago. And I was like, I know where that's going on my back in Canada. And then I saw this, I saw the. What's the steam light today? The steam.

[Dax Shepard]

Steam clock. Yeah, I know that.

[Em]

Steam clock. Steam clock. What else? I had. All three of us had poutine.

[Dax Shepard]

We did do that. We did do that. That was very good.

[Em]

It's been a wild Ride. I bought a lot of things that have to do with moose and bear and.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, elk.

[Em]

Elk.

[Dax Shepard]

Elk.

[Em]

Anyway, thank you, Canada, for finally letting me into your beautiful country.

[Dax Shepard]

I will say it is very beautiful here. I also, I mean, to a much, much lesser extent, feel. Feel very welcome here. And I feel very at home here, I should say. True. And when we landed. This thing happens every time I land somewhere. I, like, immediately on the airplane, experience that culture. Like when we landed in Dallas, the first thing I heard was, bless your heart. And I was like, oh, we haven't even gotten off the plane yet.

[Em]

For those of you who are not from the American Deep south, bless your heart means fuck you.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, yeah, and most of the time it means like, oh, honey.

[Em]

Like, yeah. It's like, mmm, bless your heart.

[Dax Shepard]

I got. We landed in the plane today and I almost didn't get off the plane. It was very tragic because the woman across the aisle for me was like, oh, no, you go first. And I was like, oh, no, after you. And she's like, no, after you. And I was like, oh, I finally met my match here in Canada. My Ohio manners are finally being challenged.

[Em]

I. On the plane today, I thought I was gonna take a nap. And I was like, okay, I can't wait to get on this plane, like a half an hour flight. But it was like, I'm going to at least try to get some shut eye. And as soon as I sat down, I. Because we flew here from Seattle. In my mind, only people from Seattle were on the plane, not Canadians. And so I was sitting on the plane, and all of a sudden the woman sitting next to me goes, oh, so. So how are you doing? What. Where. Where are you coming from? And I was like, oh, from, you know, I'm. You know, I'm going to Canada. I'm not. I'm from la. I was making small talk, thinking that it would stop, and then it just like, she just kept asking. She's like, oh, that's so nice.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you guys wouldn't shut the fuck.

[Em]

Up, but you're so nice. And I remember I thought like halfway through, I was like, why is this woman, like, so nice? I don't understand. And then all of a sudden she was like, so where. Where in Canada are you from? And I was like, oh, you think. You think I'm Canadian? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, there's no way I'm sleeping now. So thank you for that. Anyway, I know you guys did not come here to hear all.

[Dax Shepard]

That was a longer intro than usual. But we're very happy to be here, so thank you, Vancouver. We're super pumped, super stoked.

[Em]

Before we start, we're hoping you guys will take a journey with us down something called a drinking game, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Em]

Okay, Cool, cool, cool, cool. Glad to hear it.

[Dax Shepard]

So either way, you're just gonna have to do it anyway.

[Em]

So everyone wins at the end of the game.

[Dax Shepard]

Especially me, though I win extra.

[Em]

And basically, anytime Christine says anything, drink, because I made the rules. So drink if Christine says. Listen.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it might not happen. We'll see.

[Em]

Also drink if Christine gasps.

[Dax Shepard]

Also extremely rare and very unlikely.

[Em]

Also drink if Christine says, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

That one does happen quite often. So.

[Em]

Yes. And.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I got one. Drink if M says, fun fact.

[Em]

Usually a never.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Em]

By the way, that fun fact that I'll probably tell you is probably not going to be a fun fact. No, it's going to be a fact that you wish you never heard.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very unsettling and unhappy.

[Em]

Yes. Drink if we talk about the sweet baboo little baby Geo. And then also drink if we tell Eva what to do at all, which we'll probably.

[Dax Shepard]

We already sent her back to the hotel because we forgot something, so. Yeah, she's already.

[Em]

I feel like she knows Canada way too well already because we just have her going from left to right non stop. Also drink if.

[Dax Shepard]

If we say hello.

[Em]

I thought about it and everyone saw me hesitating. I know, but I was like, should.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, I'll take the bullet.

[Em]

Also.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you guys probably don't know what bullets are. We're from the United States. It's. Yeah, I'll explain it later. Don't worry.

[Em]

That was very. That was.

[Dax Shepard]

Making a statement.

[Em]

Reason a million why I'm glad to be here. Also, bonus round. Drink if I go. Honestly, it's just fucking funny.

[Dax Shepard]

I should have changed. I should have changed the subject. I really, really hate that.

[Em]

It's because she hears it every day. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's not fun for me.

[Em]

That being said, I guess at the end, if you still don't think we're funny, then you need to drink a lot more.

[Dax Shepard]

That's kind of we. It's like our not so sneaky way of trying to be more entertaining to you. So.

[Em]

So get all, you know, a good buzz with me and then just get like, hammered with Christmas.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you know what I forgot? Eva got me this really adorable little Canada flask and I left it backstage. But it's very, very tiny and cute and I was going to Bring it. But I already have two beverages.

[Em]

You can have a third. It's okay. That's the point of the drinking game.

[Dax Shepard]

I put. I was going to put maple syrup in it and then I was like, that's a little much.

[Em]

I think there was one store today, by the way, that like, I know that they were like pumping the smell of maple syrup through the vents. Cause I walked in there and I was like, I don't even see maple syrup, but I know exactly where I am. So I appreciate your mental marketing. You guys are doing a great job because I bought a lot of shit there, so it worked. That being said, let's crack into it.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's do it.

[Christine]

We interrupt this podcast for me to tell you some breaking news. Not so breaking. I'm very sleepy all the time. And if you've been listening since day one or probably today, you know there's nothing I love more than a nap. And partly because my mattress is a Helix mattress. I've been everywhere but my own home for the last three weeks. I've been in North Carolina, I've been in Colorado. I've been in Texas and Florida. I've been in rental houses. I've been in hotels. I've been on every mattress except my own these days. And that was a silly little euphemism. I'm gonna keep in. Sorry about it.

[Em]

But it's true.

[Christine]

I've been sleeping on like 10 mattresses. None of them were my own. None of them were Helix mattresses. And I have been having the worst back pains. I've had night sweats. I'm. I just haven't been comfortable at all. I have not been getting a restful sleep. Um, and last night was my first night back home in my own bed. Wow. Slept like a baby. It was like sleeping on a cloud. Um, it was. It was just in an obvious difference. I mean, my back doesn't hurt. I just. I just woke up feeling refreshed. And I have Helix to thank you for that. So if you would like to be like me and have some life changing sleep, go to helixleep.com drink for 27 off site, wide exclusive for listeners. I mean, that's why I drink. That's helixsleep.com drink for 27 off site, wide exclusive for listeners of. And that's why we drink. Helixsleep.com Drink. Hear ye, hear ye. Extra, extra. Read all about it. Just kidding. Don't read.

[Em]

Listen all about it.

[Christine]

Because Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command from electrifying suspense and Daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance in far off realms. Unleash your adventurous side with gripping tales that keep you guessing. Exclusive captivating Audible originals and hotly anticipated new releases. If you need to be in a car for a long time, or if.

[Em]

You need to be on a plane.

[Christine]

For a long time, or a train or a boat, or if you just want to sit on your couch for a long time, you can enjoy Audible. That's what I do. I love me an audiobook. You know, I've said this before. I literally have written two books which you can find on Audible, but I really can't stand dry text. There's nothing I love more than just getting to sit, listen vibe. It's a great time and there's more like big releases like Freda McFadden's the Tenant and Amelia Hart's the Sirens. You can also listen to some of their bestsellers that hooky from the first minute. Whether that's heart pounding suspense like the Audible original, mad love fantasy romance adventure like Onyx Storm, or listen with the lights on epic like Stephen King's latest Never Flinch. Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try audible now for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills. Visit audible.com drink or text DRINK to 500. 500. That's audible.com drink or text drink to 500. 500.

[Em]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, don't steal my thing.

[Em]

So I appreciate everyone writing in and sending in all of their Canadian stories for like, I asked for recommendations at one point when people really threw down and offered a whole lot of stuff. So I appreciate that. The one that I picked, I thought was pretty good. It's kind of quick. And so because I don't want to leave any part of Canada ever hanging, I also, I have a short little fun extra ghost story for you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. At the end, I'm ready.

[Em]

Yay. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm so excited for my story.

[Em]

Well, you gotta get through mine first.

[Dax Shepard]

I just remembered what mine was. I was like, oh, yeah, that's pretty good.

[Em]

All right. This is the story of. And please, whether or not you know it, I have anxiety, so clap. Anyway, also me.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm jumping on that train. Thank you.

[Em]

This is the story of Deadman's Island. Dead Man's Island. I heard some authentic woos and some pity woos, but I like both of them, so thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know what this is. It sounds very scary.

[Em]

Scary Dead Man's Island. Okay, so it is south of Stanley Park. Okay, cool.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't look up every time you.

[Em]

Say, yeah, no Stanley Park. We have done a few shows where we, like, the whole story was based in a town that apparently everyone hated. And I was like, oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

I had to switch gears real fast. I was like, you know that shitty town that I just mentioned? Because everyone booed when I talked about it. Oh, my God.

[Em]

Well, everyone seems to like the south of Stanley park at least, so let's go with that. So this is near Coal Harbor. Does that make sense to other people?

[Dax Shepard]

They might just be doing that because you told them to.

[Em]

Probably. But also, it's the Canadians. They're so nice. I know.

[Dax Shepard]

So we don't have anything to worry about.

[Em]

So the island is today a Canadian naval base. Fun fact. And so.

[Dax Shepard]

God damn it.

[Em]

Again, I told you they're not really fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Just started.

[Em]

So it started as. It never started as Dead Man's Island. It was originally literally called Island. That's a fun fact.

[Dax Shepard]

That is a fun fact.

[Em]

And so there were a few native tribes who lived on the island in the beginning, and the Northern tribes and the Southern tribes at one point were at war with each other. And the Southern tribe had kidnapped 200 of the Northern tribe's women, children, and elderly family members. And so the Southern tribe did the kidnapping, and they said, we are going to hold them hostage until the north decides to send over 200 of their best warriors to switch them out, and then we'll let everyone go.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Em]

So they decided. The Northern tribe decided, okay, we're going to do that. So they had 200 of their best warriors go and replace the spots of the women and children. The Northern Tribe.

[Dax Shepard]

Are we not saying their name on purpose?

[Em]

No, I. They don't. I didn't find a name. It was just Northern Tribe.

[Dax Shepard]

Because yesterday you said you were like, I'm not gonna try to say the name.

[Em]

Oh, yeah. Because, well, also, if I knew the name, I would probably really not pronounce it right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, just checking.

[Em]

Everywhere online was saying north and South.

[Dax Shepard]

Got it. Okay, cool.

[Em]

So the Southern tribe released the children and women as they said they would, but then immediately killed all of the Northern warriors. They apparently had a whole plan to just shoot them all down with arrows as soon as they got there.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. Who's laughing? Someone's entertained by that. What the fuck, Canada?

[Em]

So the legend is that after all the Northern tribe warriors died that day, the next day, all of the flowers on that entire part of the island set on fire by themselves. So all the stems were normal flowers, but the petals were little flowers.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Em]

And so then the Southern tribe was like, well, fuck that. And so they decided that they were going to leave the land and never come back. They called it cursed. And then they called it Dead Man's Island. Ooh. Ah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my.

[Em]

And so since nobody wanted to live there. I don't know if this is the same tribe. To kind of answer your question, I don't know if this is the same tribe or a new tribe that's moving in, but it's called. They're called the Squamish tribe.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Em]

And they started using.

[Dax Shepard]

Good job.

[Em]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

I waited. I didn't want to say anything until I heard approval.

[Em]

Thank you. It's fine. So the.

[Dax Shepard]

Stop it.

[Em]

The Squamish tribe decided that they were going to use that part of the island since it was no longer being used, they were going to use it as a cemetery. It now is a cemetery. But they were putting bodies in wooden coffins. And because they were afraid of the fact that apparently the ground can just catch on fire, they didn't want to bury the coffins, and so they started shoving them in between branches of trees. So the above ground coffins, as they were, were later relocated by the settlers once they decided they were going to use the land, and they turned it into a burial ground for them. So they were actually now burying the bodies. But keep in mind, they were definitely also disturbing, like a native burial ground.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Em]

So in the 1870s, they turned it into a burial ground, but it was more of a dumping ground for any and all corpses that were not wanted. Oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

That's.

[Em]

So nobody was trying to bury them? Well, they were just trying to put them under the ground. Oh, Jesus. Okay, so bodies that were buried here were merchant seamen, construction workers of the Canadian Pacific Railway, the 21 victims of the Great Fire of 1886. Vagrants, outlaws, poor laborers, sex workers, lepers, and societal outcasts. So pretty much like I said, anybody that either couldn't afford a nice burial or no one cared enough to give a nice burial. So eventually the bodies started piling up because there were so many of them that there was nowhere left to bury them. And so a year later, a proper cemetery was actually opened right next door called Mountain View Cemetery. But they were dumped into even more shallow graves. And also, they weren't trying to do it, like, in a plot at all. They were just putting bodies wherever they could under the ground. So they were just scattered everywhere. And they also weren't clearly Getting proper funerals. So this is like three types of cemeteries, all on a road that are not. Are doing their job. So 1890, right around the island, there are now smallpoxes showing up in different areas. And so people have decided that Dead Man's island will actually be the quarantine site of people who contract smallpox.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. What?

[Em]

But so they were thinking like, oh, you can just. You can just go here and then just, you know, just be done with smallpox. But apparently in 1890, people just die from smallpox instead of get better.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, especially if you put them on an island.

[Em]

Right, right. And so basically, that was their plan all along. They were calling it a quarantine site, but at the same time, they pretty much planned that we're just going to put you on the island. We planned on burying you in anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. So, okay.

[Em]

Then they started considering them, quote, the walking dead.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, dear.

[Em]

Because, you know, they already. Once they already had smallpox, it was pretty much a death sentence. Right. So they were like, we'll just put you there since we plan on putting you there anyway. Yeah. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

In case anyone's okay.

[Em]

Canadian.

[Dax Shepard]

In case anyone's wondering.

[Em]

Also, I think that today is the record of me saying Canadian in, like, in one day alone. I've probably said it a thousand times, and every. Every single time has been in, like, the best way possible. And anytime I've said American, it's been like, in the worst way possible.

[Dax Shepard]

In, like, the most shameful.

[Em]

In the most, like, the most shameful way. I'm just like, oh, my God, being such an American right now. Well, like, this is the. This is not. Is probably a very American thing to do, too.

[Dax Shepard]

So, yeah, somewhat. The guy. The guy in the car was like, oh, where are you from? And I was like, america. Like, he knows that.

[Em]

He's like, you know, like, Canadian, United States.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's like, I mean, I. That much I figured out real quick.

[Em]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Four seconds.

[Em]

And I felt shame, too, when I said America. I was like, can't we just all just start saying Canada until it's real?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Em]

So. Oh, yeah. Smallpox. So let's go back to that many of. So since a lot of people just. They started just putting them on the island, knowing that they would die and didn't try to take any documentation of them. So there's a lot of unmarked graves there because they were just burying bodies left and right, trying to get them underground. So since there are. Since it's unmarked, chances are that when they ever decided to make it a naval base, they didn't Actually ever exhume all of the bodies?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, yeah, I guess there are a lot of people there now.

[Em]

Yeah. So in 1899, there was a guy named Theodore and he leased the island from the federal government. And he said, well, nobody's doing anything with this island, so I'm going to build a lumber mill.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Em]

And the officials and locals of towns nearby did not want him to because they thought that the island was originally part of the Stanley park land grant that said that you can't touch that land.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Em]

But he kept trying to find loopholes. Basically he pissed off the police left and right because he kept saying like, oh well, I'm going to do it. Here's a loophole. And they're like, well, we don't want you to. And he'd be like, oh, well, here's another loophole. So he just kept finding ways to teddy to use the, the land for himself. So they didn't know if he was legally allowed to be doing whatever he wanted with the land. So they kept fighting him on it. And authorities told him that the island wasn't a good idea for him to use. Uh, it wasn't a good idea for him to use it the way that he wanted to, but he didn't care. So he kept trying to start construction projects on the island. But apparently all of the like, law enforcement in the area were so against him doing it that they started doing like camp out nights there. They for from like 1909 to like 1930, like for like 20 years. They would put different, different police like on shifts to spend the night there to avoid him from trying to start a construction project project to get the, his company built up. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

That's one way to do it, I guess.

[Em]

I don't know why they were so like hard pressed on it, but it works because their plan was to camp out until 1930 when his lease would expire and they actually did it. So Holy shit. In 1909 though. So that was at the beginning of when they were trying to do these little sleepovers apparently. And so little sleepovers, little police sleepovers. So during one of these nights when it was right when the police started camping out there to keep him from construction, this was when they started feeling the peak of paranormal activity start showing up. Because they were on an island all by themselves and they have reported feeling, they reported hearing disembodied voices screaming at them in the middle of the night. They could hear chains rattling out of their tent. They saw apparitions of skeletons that would scream in Their faces. And they. While the skeletons were screaming, they could also hear bones cracking.

[Dax Shepard]

What the hell?

[Em]

So anyway, through 19. So anyway, you know that.

[Dax Shepard]

Moving on.

[Em]

So through 1930, the police were often there trying to keep him from opening up his company, but not knowing what to do with the land. After that happened and after his lease expired, officials wanted to make sure that they were in control of what happened to the land. So a lot of people, a lot of citizens in the area said that they wanted to turn it into a museum, a war memorial, or an amusement park or a dance hall. So it got down to those four things. So a lot of variety. They ended up deciding that they were going to make it a park. But in 1942, I wish it was the dance hall.

[Dax Shepard]

That was.

[Em]

I was gunning for that way. Fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Em]

Taking a ferry to the dance hall.

[Dax Shepard]

So love it.

[Em]

But in 1942, their plans to make it a park got scrapped because during World War II, they needed to look at more places for military bases. And so that was when that they. That was when they decided that they were going to make the land. The Canadian Royal Navy and Reserve Training Facility.

[Dax Shepard]

Got it.

[Em]

It's called HMCS Discovery. Sure. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

That person really likes it.

[Em]

Sure. Okay. What up? So they. So the Navy decided that they were gonna use the island as a naval base, and that's where the reserves go to train. So it was named HMCS Discovery after one of the ships used by Captain George Vancouver.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, our favorite guy.

[Em]

Yes. And you can only imagine what Captain George Vancouver's name is also attached to, I don't know, maybe Vancouver.

[Dax Shepard]

So.

[Em]

That was my brain exploding. So while the island was now turned into a base, that was when people started regularly reporting supernatural stuff going on. So originally they were like, okay, so the cops said that they heard some weird things.

[Dax Shepard]

There's like some skeletons screaming.

[Em]

There's some skeletons screaming at you to wake you up.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't worry, their bones only crack sometimes.

[Em]

They thought at that point it might just be like a legend or a rumor going around town. But now everyone's starting to confront that actually is going to the base. And they're like, oh, some shit is going on here. So they basically. There were reports of hearing glass breaking, furniture moving on its own, voices whispering and then shouting. Casual screaming in your face again. Gurgling, chanting, footsteps. People also experienced being touched and shoved when nobody was there. Some people said that they were tripped by someone. Even though no one was there. They could see shadow people. They would see glowing eyes in the fog. They would see Unexplained lights rushing towards them at night. And there was pacing footsteps running at them. People reported something hissing their name when they're alone.

[Dax Shepard]

Cool.

[Em]

They've heard laughter, loud bangs on the table that you're sitting at. Chain's sitting.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I thought you meant the table I'm sitting.

[Em]

This exact table.

[Christine]

We brought it for now.

[Dax Shepard]

It's here tonight.

[Em]

Oh, I was about to say no. If you're like on the lap on your laptop or something, like something will like smack the table while next to you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, sure.

[Em]

People will also hear chains getting thrown on the floor next to them. They will hear a woman sobbing. They'll hear a man shouting, hey there.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's kind of nice.

[Em]

And they have a lot of people have reported seeing a glowing flickering flame out amongst the trees. And apparently if you look at it long enough, the flame itself will morph into a human shadow, a human figure shadow, and start walking out of the trees towards you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I love that.

[Em]

La la la. Also, objects will move on their own. And people's item, people working there, their items will go missing and then show up in random places that there's no way they would have put them there. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Experience.

[Em]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Creepy.

[Em]

If you've listened to us bitch and moan about our personal ghost stories, that's a pretty frequent one.

[Dax Shepard]

Usually my retainer. I mean, 99% time I lost it. But like once or twice that was not me.

[Em]

I mean, I have personal stories of things like ending up in the. Like in the middle of my driveway, inside, like the shower drain and stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

It's always like in the middle of something which is very spooky, like it.

[Em]

Wants you to know. Ooh. So also lights and electronics will go off and on by themselves. Usually they will do the thing you don't want them to do, of course. And the most activity happens on the base in a building called building number one.

[Dax Shepard]

Clever. And then it's much like island.

[Em]

Right. And then the other most active area is a storage room that is used as a holding cell or was used as a holding cell back when the tribes were living there. So legend has it that in that holding cell, one of the people that died that day with the fire flowers.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, I remember those.

[Em]

Apparently there were a few people in the holding cell who actually died by suicide. That so apparent. That's why they think that the storage room might be have more activity than other parts. So there's a few stories that are, I guess, the most well known about this island that is now the naval base. So these all four of these are from the naval base.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Em]

One of them is from a. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say seaman a lot, guys, just so you know, this is a weird day. A leading seaman named.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I forgot it.

[Em]

Named Anne Marie Hamilton, which I'm very excited that it's a woman because this was in like the 80s or 90s.

[Dax Shepard]

So who is she?

[Em]

Her name is Anne Marie Hamilton, and she's one of the leading seamen. Hey, O.

[Dax Shepard]

Sea woman.

[Em]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you realize she's a sea woman, right?

[Em]

Yes, sea man, it says.

[Dax Shepard]

So just gonna pretend that was for me, not Anne Marie. Thanks.

[Em]

So no one usually sleeps on the islands or no one sleeps on the naval base. Usually you just do your work and then everyone leaves at a certain time. And then there's a guy who has. He's like, out by the front gate and make sure nobody comes in all night.

[Dax Shepard]

Poor guy.

[Em]

That poor guy. Because he's involved in all of these stories. So Anne Marie, she actually asked for special permission to stay overnight one weekend to get some of her extra work done. And she decided that she was going to sleep in building number one. Big mistake. So she. The first night she's there, she wakes up at 3am of course, to the sound of two men walking outside of her room and going up the stairwell.

[Dax Shepard]

Nope.

[Em]

She said that she heard them clearly, as though they had. Clearly and calmly, as though they weren't trying to be sneaky, they just were having their own conversation. And they were slowly walking up to the third floor, which was the floor above her. She heard them start moving furniture and still talking to each other while also opening and closing the doors for an hour. So why. So she didn't know what was going on, but she assumed that they were probably there to do some manual labor or something, and they were also getting to stay the night or had the permission to do so. So the next morning, she asked the watchman at the front gate who else stayed in building number one with her. And he said that she was the only person on the whole island and nobody had come through the gates.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[Em]

So then she decides to save for the second night.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, what in the world To.

[Em]

And so basically for the. The next night, she's there at. Again, at 3am she woke up to furniture being moved on the floor above her. And she was like, okay, well, I'm just going to go find out what this is. And I was like, whoa, girl. So she went up to see what the sound was or who was there, but she got to the hall right in front of the room, like, up to the doorway. And apparently she felt this, like, tremendous dread saying, don't go in the room.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Em]

And so she went downstairs, and then she went to sleep.

[Dax Shepard]

So that is not how we would behave in any of the above scenarios.

[Em]

If I heard furniture moving and I knew someone might even be up there that's alive, I'd be like, I don't know about this.

[Dax Shepard]

Listen. We would not even stay one night on this goddamn. We'd be like, there's 8,000 ghosts.

[Em]

I'd be like, and there's 8,000 hotel rooms that are not here, so let's go to those.

[Dax Shepard]

So I will not be doing any manual labor or whatever. She was there, right, Right. Thank you.

[Em]

So in 1991, there was another leading seaman. His name was C. Grann.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Em]

And he was. There it is. He was stationed at the base as a security guard one night. And again, the. He was the only person on the island. So while he was there, he went to the bathroom. And of course, this happens while he's on the toilet, which means, like, he can't get away. He hears the doors outside of the bathroom slamming open and shut by themselves. And then he also heard doors. I guess it was one building connecting to another. So they had, like, the sliding doors in between. And he heard those, even though they're supposed to be like motion sensor, they kept opening and closing by themselves. And so he didn't know what that was. And so he radioed the guy at the front gate and was like, okay, who else is here? And he said, no, you're it, like, and I'm not going there either. Go. Go find you. So he decided that maybe there was someone else that might have just been leaving late or something like that. But when he got out of the bathroom and looked around, everything was pitch black as he left it. And everything was locked shut, including the motion sensor doors. They couldn't move at all. So he heard that on his own. And he also has been quoted saying, I'm a skeptic about the whole thing, but when you're by yourself, you have a crisis of faith, and the next thing you know, you're running out of the building. So I think that's his way of saying he's a skeptic. But also, he's not an idiot. He's like, no. So the third One is in 1992, another Leading Seaman. His name is Jay Eldridge. Love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Love it.

[Em]

He was in the office in building number one by himself when he Heard footsteps sprinting down the staircase. He checked it out and saw that the lights were off in the stairwell and nobody was there. He called the watchman at the front gate who said that he was the only person on the island. This guy has, like, one job. He's like, you're it.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like, I know what you're gonna ask.

[Em]

That's it.

[Dax Shepard]

Nope. And I'm not gonna come help you.

[Em]

After enough of these stories, I feel like that guy, if he gets like a. Like a beep on his radio, he's like, ugh, I don't even want to know. I just have. I'm just gonna tell them they're alone before they start.

[Dax Shepard]

Leave me to my sudoku and stop calling me. Do we know his name or no?

[Em]

No, we don't know his name. Just Brave soul.

[Dax Shepard]

I love that guy, though.

[Em]

So he says, no, you're the only one on the island. And so Eldridge decides that he's gonna go upstairs and find out for himself what is making the sound. And so he. As soon as he hangs up the phone, hearing that he's alone on the island, he hears loud laughter.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Em]

And then he hears the furniture dragging in the room directly above him.

[Dax Shepard]

What is it? These people in furniture?

[Em]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

That's like the last thing I'd want to do if I were ghosts. Like.

[Em]

Like for eternity. Just hate what you're doing.

[Dax Shepard]

I already try hard to avoid it now.

[Em]

So as he got up from his seat to go walk upstairs and check out the scene, the sound stopped instantly.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Em]

And then as soon as he sat down, the sounds started happening again. And they played this weird back and forth for a while where as soon as he would give up on going to check, the sounds would happen. The laughter in the furniture. And then when he would get up and go up the stairs, nothing. All the sounds would go away. So he played that for a while, and then eventually he decided to leave when he realized that the lights and the stairwell were now on by themselves.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Em]

So there's another story pretty similar to that that happened two years later with Petty Officer Low. And one morning he was upstairs and heard people talking and stomping around in the mess hall below him.

[Dax Shepard]

But.

[Em]

But he knew he was the only one that was there. So he went downstairs to figure out who had come in early, but the mess hall was empty. And when he got back upstairs, the noise started again. Then he went down. No one was there. So they just like to mess with you, apparently. So that. Actually, I feel like I've told this story before, but at my dad's house, we have a ghost that does that, which is just the worst. We think this ghost's name is Charlie.

[Dax Shepard]

For any reason or just because.

[Em]

Because there's. Well, he also, like, has a little graveyard in the backyard from the last people who lived here. And my stepmom has actually seen this spirit, and it looks like a young boy. And the only young boy on that has a grave marker, his name was Charlie.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that makes sense.

[Em]

But. So there are times where we'll be sleeping, and then all of a sudden, it sounds like someone just turned on all the music, and there's 50 people in the living room, and everyone just having the best night of their lives. And then you open the door. You just open your door to even go out there, and all the sound goes away. And then if you close the door, all of a sudden, you'll hear the music starting up again.

[Dax Shepard]

Small Child was like a party or a little rager.

[Em]

Seriously, rager in the making.

[Dax Shepard]

It's much more exciting than whatever I did when I was nine.

[Em]

And so he basically. That guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Someone thinks I'm funny.

[Em]

But no. So that. That ghost is an asshole.

[Dax Shepard]

So, yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, I'm glad that I don't live there anymore because that guy was annoying. So that was the end of Dead Men's Island. But I do have a bonus one for you real quick. Thank you. So a lot of people asked about this one, so I wanted to make sure that I put it in, because I wanted to originally cover this one, too, but it didn't seem like there was a lot of information. But also, since there's not a lot of information, that means I can throw it in and, like, we can all get two stories in one. So. Yeah. So this is the very quick, abridged story of Highcroft Manor. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know what that is either.

[Em]

So it's in the upscale neighborhood Google tells me of. I'm gonna fuck it up. Shognessy Shaughnessy.

[Dax Shepard]

Cool. Is it a gh?

[Em]

Yeah, whatever. All right, I. Clearly, everyone knows I love Canada. I don't have to prove myself.

[Dax Shepard]

Chagan. See?

[Em]

So it's Shauga Hennessy. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

There it is.

[Em]

So, in 1911, the Highcroft Manor was built for General Alexander Duncan McRae, who was a local politician and a World War I hero in the 1920s and 1930s. He and his wife were elite soldiers, socialists, socialites.

[Dax Shepard]

I. Okay, I thought that's where we were going. And then you like turned.

[Em]

Eva, delete that. So.

[Dax Shepard]

Eva, don't delete that. And turn the volume up a little bit.

[Em]

Right, right. And just actually put it on loop.

[Dax Shepard]

For the entire hour and keep the shognessy thing in.

[Em]

Right. So they were elite social lights.

[Dax Shepard]

Correct.

[Em]

And they held extravagant parties in the manor. In 1942 they donated the manor to the Canadian government.

[Dax Shepard]

Well that's nice.

[Em]

Yeah, Casual.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Em]

And the building ended up becoming a hospital for war vets until 1960 where it became so deteriorated that just ended up being a vacant building.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you said that they were socialists and then you were like. And then they donated their house to the government? I was like, that makes like none of this makes any sense.

[Em]

Just throwing a lot of cool factsy and seeing what sticks.

[Dax Shepard]

This is fun. I like it.

[Em]

So in 1962, the University Women's Club of Vancouver. All right. Yeah. They, they purchased the place and restored the manor to look exactly how it did back in 1911. And in. Yeah, woohoo.

[Dax Shepard]

1911.

[Em]

And so the building is a 30 room structure and it is now a first class venue for events and gatherings. There are seven ghosts, which I thought would mean that there's like a lot of material, but apparently not. So I'm sorry about that. I really got really hyped up and then I was like, oh, oh. So there are seven ghosts that apparently walk throughout the house, walk past the doorways, go up the stairs, you'll see them pass you when you're on the bottom floor, but you'll see them by the balcony and sitting in rooms, et cetera. Just doing ghost like chillin'. Just chillin.

[Dax Shepard]

Not moving the furniture I would hope. Please.

[Em]

Yeah, they're nice.

[Dax Shepard]

At least they're like smart and don't need to do manual labor in the afterlife.

[Em]

Well, so apparently the first one is an older man dressed in a World War I officer's uniform. So I think that might be General McRae. There's also a well dressed lady who walks up and down the hallways at all hours. We think that might be his wife. Okay. There's a woman in a nurse's uniform. And there are three different army veterans that are all very active in the house and known as the Pranksters.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I love that.

[Em]

And apparently they just do all the really annoying things to a staff, including like opening, closing doors, unlocking things once you've locked them, fucking with the lights. Like anything you don't want them to do, they'll probably do. So and then the. There's they say there's seven, but I've seen that there's actually kind of also an eighth ghost. So the seventh one is a crying man.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, whoa. Someone's like, yeah. Hell yeah.

[Em]

Loud sobbing that's heard from the bottom floor. And every time you go downstairs to see what's going on, nobody's there. Sometimes something will be moving by itself, though, as if something was there. And in the 1970s, in a lockdown investigation, there was a investigator that actually heard the crying and then saw a football sized, solid black orb float over the dining table at him. Which is extra creepy to me because usually orbs are like white and see through and usually you can, you know, excuse it as dust or something. But if it's solid black and it's coming directly at you, that's pretty terrifying. And it's a football size.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Em]

So staff say that the spirits haunting the manor are mostly peaceful and protective. And. And the bonus ghost is a crying baby that is sometimes heard in a bedroom. And when you go and look in the bedroom to see what baby is there, no one is. And the crying stops.

[Dax Shepard]

That's sad.

[Em]

The spirits are most active when the manor is being used as a filming location, I guess, because there's a lot of people in there that are all kind of stressed and it feeds off that, so.

[Dax Shepard]

And they, like, want to get a job done. And the ghosts are like, nah.

[Em]

Yeah, exactly. They're like, oh, you wanted your camera to turn on.

[Dax Shepard]

No, we have other plans.

[Em]

So they were especially active when there was a film crew on the location for a few episodes of the X Files, which is kind of cool, paranormal, favorite show. So I thought that was interesting that, like, they were like, oh, I read the script. This shit's good, so.

[Dax Shepard]

Or they're like, now this isn't correct.

[Em]

It's like, I'll give you the real deal real quick.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Em]

Also during the filming of the movie Catwoman, that. Nope. Okay. The one.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, isn't that like the Halle Berry one? No. Is that something else?

[Em]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Because that was a bad movie.

[Em]

Well, they used the Highcroft Manor for that. Whoops. And so one security guard, while that was supposed to be there to watch out for the cast, he was taking pictures. He heard it was haunted and wanted to see if he could get anything on camera. And he found a humanoid white mist in the doorways.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Okay.

[Em]

Staff have also said that they frequently get a, quote, spine chilling tingle when they walk into certain rooms. And one of the staff members has said, you get that Cold chill right up your spine that stands all your hairs up on end. It's not the kind that you feel where you think, oh, it's cold. It's the kind where you feel and you think that there's something that might give you a little worry.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh.

[Em]

And those are the stories of Dead Men's island and Highcroft Manor.

[Christine]

Hey, everybody. How's the story going? Was it fun? Is it funny? Is it sad? Here's something shocking. Just how many fees there are everywhere. Hidden fees. You don't know where they're coming from. You don't even. You don't even know why they're there. But I just spent the last three weeks perusing the country, going this way and that away. And the amount of fun I was having came with all these fees, all these hidden fees. I try to do concerts, I try to do movies in the park. I try to go to museums. I try to go to, you know, know I would. I was trying to make the most of it and there were all these fees. And all of a sudden I was like, what? What is going on here?

[Em]

Not only are fees everywhere, but they.

[Christine]

Hurt the most when you're down and you're not in a good place. But Chime offers fee free banking. At least there's one place you can guarantee no fees. There are no monthly fees, no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees. And if you'd like to try it yourself, you can sign up [e-mail] Drink banking shouldn't cost you money. And with Chime, there are no, like I said, monthly fees, no overdraft fees, no minimum balance requirements. As someone who has fallen victim many a time to an overdraft fee, this is easily my favorite part of chime. Absolute game changer. If I knew about it when I was in college, I would had a different experience in college, let's put it that way. Open your account in two [e-mail] drink. That's chime.com drink. Chime feels like progress.

[Kristen Bell]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members. FDIC spot and eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. news and World Report 2023 Chime checking account required.

[Em]

Meow.

[Christine]

It's Juniper. Hello everybody. You're wondering why I run so fast past the microphone. And it's because I am healthy and happy and feeling good about myself because I with my brother Moonshine eat Smalls. You have got to try Smalls if you're a cat like us. So Smalls cat food is protein packed recipes made with preservative free ingredients you'd find in your fridge and it's delivered right to your door. That's why cats.com named Smalls their best overall cat food. I gotta say, we love our Smalls. There are some very yummy flavors over there including. Excuse me, Meow. Ground cow and as well as smooth fish. And to get 60 off your first order plus free shipping. I don't know what shipping is, but that sounds pretty good. If it's free, head to smalls.com can use our promo code drink for a limited time only. Did you know that by the way? Moonshine. Moonshine's here. Say hi, Moonshine. Thank you, Moonshine. He's shy today after switching to Smalls. Listen up, Moonshine. This is important. 88% of cat owners reported overall healthy improvements. And I gotta tell you, I'm feeling pretty healthy. As you heard from me running to the microphone earlier. You can get 60% off your first Smalls order plus free shipping. When you head to smalls.com drink that's 60% off. When you head to smalls.com drink plus free shipping. Again, that's smalls.com. what was the moonshine drink? Smalls.com drink. Meow.

[Em]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. What a time to be alive. All right, everybody. Hey. I'm going to tell you some murder stuff now.

[Em]

Good. Let's start talking about.

[Dax Shepard]

Please. This is probably less disturbing actually.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Cool. So Em always sets us up as like, look, I'm gonna do all this crazy cool stuff and tell you about ghosts anyway. Christine, I guess you can go.

[Em]

So anyway, really wow them now that I'm like the main act? No, yeah, I'll try.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't promise much, but. All right, guys. So I actually this is a little gift for m. Because we're in your homeland.

[Em]

Homeland.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like, I don't know. I'm just gonna go with it because we are in your favorite place with a U. Favorite with a U. Oh, I'm such a weirdo. I literally.

[Em]

Yeah. Did everyone see coloring book without the U?

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry.

[Em]

That's the most American coloring book.

[Dax Shepard]

I literally put a U in like a big weirdo. Cause I was like, well, I'll have to remember that.

[Em]

Right, right, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So this is in honor of you being in Canada for the first time I picked a story just for you. This is the Vancouver milkshake murder. Sorry, everyone, but remember, you have a microphone an inch from your face.

[Em]

I forgot, but it's okay, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a very wild ride, okay? But I Googled, like, true crime Vancouver, and this was one of the first things that came up, and I was like, well, fate. I mean, I'm not even gonna look for anything else.

[Em]

So the universe knew?

[Dax Shepard]

The universe knew. Or you were like, with my Google? I don't know. It's entirely possible. Okay, so I was listening to a lovely show called the Dark Poutine Podcast, which is a lovely Canadian true crime show that I've actually been meaning to shout out for a while because they're great, but so they. Thanks to them for. For some of this info. Okay, we are going to go back to the mid-1960s in Vancouver. Obviously, this guy named Rene Castellani. Renee. With one E. Like, the French one.

[Em]

Renee.

[Dax Shepard]

There it is. Castellani. So let's throw some Italian in there, I guess. Was a local radio personality at popular radio station cknw. Is that still a thing I heard? No. And yeah. So who's to say? Let's go with. Yeah, that's more fun for the show. Okay. He was a promo man known for his stunts, sometimes wearing a gorilla suit to promote the radio station. He was also known for his honor pranks, which earned him the title of the Dizzy Dialer.

[Em]

Ooh, yes, I like it.

[Dax Shepard]

1960S, I think that was just, like, very classic, very exciting of a name, the Dizzy Dialer. So one of his more famous pranks was when he would pretend. Pretend to be. Well, here we go. He would pretend to be an Indian maharaja, which is Sanskrit for ruler or king.

[Em]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's great. He pretended to be the Indian Maharaja of Alibaba. Yikes. Going so far as to take out ads on bus boards saying he wanted to buy British Columbia. And there was, like, no purpose for this. Just to, like, fuck with people. So I don't really understand, but I don't know. This is a weird place. He stayed at the Westin Bay shore dressed as an Indian prince, and he would ride around in limousines with bodyguards and an entourage of dancing girls.

[Em]

Me too.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's how em spent their day in casual. So this campaign, I guess is what it was called, was so effective that outraged locals made up signs shouting, keep BC British. Because they believe. Because they believed he was truly like this Indian royalty.

[Em]

Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

What a time. The 60s were okay. So this Renee Castellani, he married his wife Esther on July 16, 1946. They were both 21. By 1965, the two of them were living in a duplex with their 12 year old daughter Janine. This was in Vancouver's Carrisdale neighborhood. Okay, I forgot to write down the pronunciation. Let's go with that. Esther was the manager of a children's clothing store and by all accounts they were a pretty happy couple. However, in early 1965, the phone rang in the middle of the night. Esther picked up the phone and heard a woman's voice ask, do you know your husband is going around with someone else? And then when she tried to ask questions, the caller hung up. So yeah, she was not happy about that.

[Em]

Uh oh.

[Dax Shepard]

So Esther didn't tell Renee about the call. Instead she like, obviously was suspicious and she kind of started like snooping around to see what was going on. Right before she accused him of anything, she found a letter in his coat pocket. And the letter was a love note from someone signed Lolly. It turns out Lolly was a nickname of a woman named Adelaide Miller, a recently widowed single mother of a six year old son who just so happened to work as a receptionist at the radio station cknw.

[Christine]

Oh no.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, so she was like, lolly, just.

[Em]

Don'T take my man.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what she said. So co workers at the station like already knew that this was happening because they were apparently very obvious and weren't very subtle about their affair, let's just put it that way. In fact, they had been together for over a year at this point by the time she found out. So it was kind of like, well, yeah, we already knew about this, but sorry you had to find out too. It's not clear whether the caller was a co worker or maybe even Lolly herself trying to break them up. So even to this day, people don't know who actually called to kind of like spill the beans to Esther.

[Em]

Got it.

[Dax Shepard]

So incidentally, around this time, Esther started to feel pretty unwell and her health kind of plummeted. She began to suffer from stomach and lower back pain severe enough to keep her off work. At first, most of her friends didn't think too much of it because apparently she had a terrible diet, she smoked excessively, and she drank way too much coffee. I was like, she drank too much? Oh, coffee. What? Like apparently that was bad deal. Got it in the 60s, I don't know. But so pretty soon she began to develop bouts of nausea and diarrhea, which quickly turned into intense Pain and vomiting. Her fingers and toes went numb, and she lost the ability to walk or use her hands.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

She deteriorated very quickly.

[Em]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

She saw several specialists who either couldn't pinpoint her illness or blamed sodium retention.

[Em]

Okay, cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Or gallbladder problems brought on by her diet. She spent seven weeks in the hospital and went through more than 120 different tests, everything from cancer to thyroid problems, gallbladder issues, but nothing came back abnormal. And so they just couldn't. Couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong with her. Yeah, don't get me started on that.

[Em]

10 reasons why I love Canada, not America.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay? Okay. Thank God. Esther's lovely husband, Renee was kind enough to bring home Esther's favorite milkshake for her every day after work.

[Em]

I don't like this. Really disrespectful to milkshakes.

[Dax Shepard]

They were one of the only foods Esther could manage to keep down because of her illness. The milkshakes were from a place called White Spot. Cool.

[Em]

I don't think White Spot's proud of the story, though.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe not. But they were the only thing she could keep down, so maybe so. White Spot. Whoo. In May of 1965, Lawley was fired for her affair with Renee. Because, you know, she's the lady, so let's get rid of her. Sure.

[Em]

That's how it works.

[Dax Shepard]

He's the one in the gorilla costume, so he gets to stay. He was obviously not fired. He got to stay on. Unfortunately for Esther, though, the affair continued despite Lolly being fired, and Esther's illness only got worse. In June of 1965, Renee pulled another weird stage stunt for the radio station. Perhaps his most noteworthy. It was called Guy in the sky, and it was an auto promotion in which he stood on top of Vancouver's iconic bomac sign on Broadway. Is that a thing? It's now a Toys R Us sign or something? Okay. No. Okay. I don't know. I'm not from here. God, ask em. Okay. By the time the by. Listen, when I was listening to Dark poutine, it was a not Trader Joe's. Hold on. Toys R Us. Toys R Us sign. Still it. Thank you. Okay. Right. So he stood on top of this sign. That's all we got to say. He stood on top of a large sign, and he did not leave until every vehicle on the lot was sold, which took nine days. So he just stood up there for literally nine days. And people would have to, like, bring him water and snacks.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

During this time, lo and behold, what a miracle. Esther's health finally improved. But once Renee returned off of his sign, so did Esther's symptoms.

[Em]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

What a weird correlation. So she at this point, couldn't keep water down. She had a blister like rash all over her body. By June, her condition had worsened so drastically that she had to be put on oxygen and hospitalized permanently. During this time, Renee had displayed a remarkable lack of empathy for his dying wife. Shocking. He had begun house hunting with Lolly and even signed paperwork for a mortgage that claimed they were married. So they were like, already moving on, right?

[Em]

They were on their way.

[Dax Shepard]

They were on their way. He had given Lolly Esther's fur coat also, which I just was like, that's fucking rude. I just kept that in there. I just thought that was very evil. Like, this lady's in the hospital and you're just giving away her possessions. So when his mother in law asked about Esther's failing health, he replied, quote, when a house burns down, I don't look for a fire. I look around to build a new house.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

So this guy's a bad, bad man.

[Em]

He's a bad apple.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. By early July, Esther was dead, unfortunately. The day after his wife's funeral, Renee took their daughter Janine, Lolly and Lolly's son dawn on a trip to Disneyland. The day after the funeral, one of Esther's doctors, his name was Dr. Bernard Moskovich, he was haunted by Esther's death. And he was kind of like the main guy who was testing her left and right and trying to figure out what was going on. So when she passed away, he requested an autopsy. And for whatever reason, Rene was like, yeah, sure, you can do it. Because they needed his approval. So I guess he was just feeling extra confident because he just signed off on it and went to Disney.

[Em]

Very ballsy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, very ballsy. And that's when Dr. Moskovich realized he had missed something. A glaring clue all along, which is that arsenic mimics gastroenteritis. Yeah, there it is. I think we all saw that coming. But surprise, surprise, he realized she had been poisoned. In fact, a second autopsy found that Esther's liver contained arsenic concentrations 50, 1500 times higher than normal.

[Em]

Oh, my God. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And there were concentrations 800 times above average in her heart.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

So, like, almost immediately, the case was declared a homicide, and Renee obviously became the prime suspect.

[Em]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Especially once word got up, got out about Lolly in her new fur coat, I guess.

[Em]

Right, right, right.

[Dax Shepard]

So it didn't help that police also found a box of something called Ortho Triox. A weed killer with high levels of arsenic. Under his kitchen sink, half empty.

[Em]

That'll do it.

[Dax Shepard]

What a dummy. Samples of Esther's hair were sent to Toronto for analysis by forensic scientist Norm Erickson. They used the hair to determine when Esther had been poisoned. You know how they can, like, test how long it's been in your body with your hair? Right? So they did that. And shockingly. Well, not shockingly, even a little bit, the portion of hair that aligned with the nine days Renee was on top of the sign showed no sign of arsenic entering her system. And every other period around those nine days did. It also showed that the poisoning resumed after his return and his daily milkshakes coming back to the house for Esther.

[Em]

Got it.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. He had committed the ultimate crime. Poisoning someone's milkshake in Canada.

[Em]

Wait, but that. Nailed it.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Em]

Nailed it.

[Dax Shepard]

Me, three weeks ago, is very pleased.

[Em]

Oh, good.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. Hold on. I lost my place, okay. I got really worked up. So. As we all probably know by now, Renee had added arsenic into Esther's milkshake every single day on the way home from work in spring of 1966, Renee and Lolly were busy planning their wedding when Rene was suddenly arrested and charged with the first degree murder of his wife, Esther. At the time, this was a capital offense punishable by hanging. He pled not guilty. Shocker. And the case went to trial. Renee maintained his innocence all the way through the trial. And poor Janine, the daughter at this point, she's only 13, was forced to testify in court on her father's behalf as, like, a character witness for her father.

[Christine]

Yikes.

[Dax Shepard]

Despite mostly circumstantial evidence, the jury quickly convicted Rene Castellani of his wife's murder and sentenced him to hang only three months later. When. I don't know whether to be.

[Em]

We'll let you.

[Dax Shepard]

That's on you guys. I don't know. I always, like, rush through those sentences because I'm like, I don't know if. Cheering. I don't know.

[Em]

What do we do?

[Dax Shepard]

We'll let you decide. Okay. Right, so. So when Janine's father was sent to jail, Janine sadly, obviously had no one left. She actually lived with Lolly and Lolly's son Don for a while. But then when Lolly met a new man, she pawned Janine off on an aunt. And Janine had no parental figure left.

[Em]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Very fucked up. Very sad. Luckily for Rene, just two weeks before his hanging, Canada suspended the death penalty and commuted his case to life imprisonment.

[Em]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

So woo, yay, boo. I don't know. There's a whole.

[Em]

Wait, can that be a word that we start? Woo, yay, boo.

[Dax Shepard]

Just.

[Em]

You decide.

[Dax Shepard]

Woo, yay, boo just covers all the spectrum of possible reactions.

[Em]

You heard it here first. We're gonna start using that trademark.

[Dax Shepard]

Trademark, trademark. Don't steal that. Okay, okay. I'm lost. Okay. Right. So within two years. So they suspended the death penalty. He was, like, spared three weeks before his execution. Within Woo. Yeah, within two years, Renee was doing community service, playing Santa Claus. Boo.

[Em]

Boo. Can we agree that's a boo.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a. That's a straight boo. Within five, he had weekend passes out of jail, and within 10 years, he was fully paroled in back to working at the radio station. What?

[Em]

Yeah, that radio station.

[Dax Shepard]

Not pretty.

[Em]

Needs to figure out how they're hiring people.

[Dax Shepard]

But whether this is karma or whatnot, Renee actually passed away shortly after his parole, dying from cancer in 1982. So he wasn't even out for, like, two years before he passed away.

[Em]

Without cancer.

[Dax Shepard]

We get a lot of emails. I don't want Eva to have to work with that. Tonight at the funeral, Renee's daughter Janine was asked not to speak because his most recent wife didn't know anything about his past as a convicted murderer. So they're like, oh, you can't say anything in case you let it slip that your dad, like, murdered your mom. Can you imagine? Not right. So for many years after her father's son and saying Janine clung to her dad's innocence because she just couldn't really, like, let herself believe that she. She had lost both parents in that way. And so she had essentially lost both her parents. It wasn't until her twenties that she finally accepted that her father had killed her mother. She's now in her 60s, and she has been described as a kind, brave woman. She has two kids in their 30s and is by all accounts an awesome mother. There's actually a milkshake murder exhibit at the Vancouver Police Museum.

[Em]

Wait a minute. Yeah, wait a minute.

[Dax Shepard]

As far as when I listened to that episode, I don't know if you guys want to check it out, and I guess if we want to check it out at 4am before our flight.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They also have the now illegal weed killer that Renee used on display. Like the box of weed killer. And they also have the chart from the hospital that displays the amounts of arsenic in, like, the different parts of Esther's body. So it's, like, wildly dark. Yeah, it's very dark. Only a few months ago, actually. So In October of 2018, an author named Eve Lazarus wrote. Released a book about. Is that you? Are you Eve? I got really excited.

[Em]

Hey, girl, we love you.

[Dax Shepard]

We do love Eve Lazarus. Okay, so in October 2018, an author named Eve Lazarus released a book about the case called Murder by Milkshake. An astonishing true story of adultery, arsenic, and a charismatic killer. Ooh, I know, I know.

[Em]

Good title. You picked a good one.

[Dax Shepard]

It is a good title. So Eve, for the book, Eve actually interviewed Janine, who's now successful. She said she still has a hard time coping with her family's past. Obviously, she explained to Eve that all the things she said on the stand were lies, and she'd actually been told exactly what, like, the lines to say in her father's defense on the stage. So she admits that she committed perjury, but she didn't know. She was 13.

[Em]

Got it.

[Dax Shepard]

And so she said none of it was true. She read the book, actually, which must have been a very hard thing for her to do. She read the book. She gained a lot of understanding from it, she said. And she was actually at the book launch in October, so that's kind.

[Christine]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So she's kind of, like, standing up for everything.

[Em]

Got it.

[Dax Shepard]

She summed her experience up in one sentence. She said, I am not past the anger yet, but I'm hoping to get there soon. And that is a story of Vancouver's milkshake murder.

[Em]

Oh, cool. Good pick.

[Dax Shepard]

What a wild time Drama.

[Em]

Milkshakes, Canada. Love it.

[Dax Shepard]

I stumbled upon it. It was pretty exciting. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you humoring me. Thank you. I appreciate you very deeply.

[Em]

Thank you, Canada.

[Dax Shepard]

We are very happy.

[Em]

Thank you guys, so, so much.

[Dax Shepard]

Canada.

[Em]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.