← And That's Why We Drink
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- [00:00]
Em
I need a job.
- [00:02]
Christine
Oh, okay. Do I? What?
- [00:09]
Em
I don't know.
- [00:11]
Christine
I was like, oh, what a time to tell me right when we're about to start a Zip recruiter ad. Oh, I see.
- [00:17]
Em
Oh, yeah, I. I need a job. Here's the other thing, though. I'm also. I'm looking for someone to hire in either circumstance. I've got Zip Recruiter. It is there for me.
- [00:27]
Christine
We really are thankful for Zip Recruiter. We've had obviously, like, stellar experience with them. I mean, how do you think we found Eva? You've heard the story a million times, but within a day, we posted and found Eva. And it was that easy. It can be overwhelming to have too many candidates to sort through, but you're in luck. Zip Recruiter now gives you the power to proactively find and connect with the best ones quickly. They do that through their innovative resume database. And right now, you can try it for free. Free@ziprecruiter.com Drink ZipRecruiter's resume database uses advanced.
- [00:57]
Em
Filtering to quickly hone in on the top candidates for your role. Skip the candidate overload and instead streamline your hiring with ZipRecruiter. See why 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day? That's exactly what happened with us, and we could not be more grateful to them.
- [01:13]
Christine
Just go to this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com drink right now to try it for free again, that ziprecruiter.com drink ziprecruck. Smartest way to hire. Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check. Whoa.
- [01:25]
Em
When did I get here?
- [01:26]
Christine
What do you mean?
- [01:27]
Em
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [01:33]
Christine
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
- [01:37]
Em
It is the future. It's.
- [01:40]
Christine
It's the present. And just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [01:44]
Em
It's all good. Happens all the time.
- [01:46]
Christine
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply. You know, I'm talking about the horrible things we talk about on the podcast that makes that make us drink. That's tough enough, right? But like, if you have ocd, it's sort of like all those things in your brain and then they become these intrusive thoughts. I think a lot of people understand that concept. It's gotten a lot of, like, press recently, like press okay on tick tock. But you know what I'm saying? People kind of are getting the kind of understanding the concept. It's definitely something I've dealt with for a few. Well, for my whole life, but consciously for a few years. And that's where no CD comes in. It's just such a great service. I heard about it from listeners years ago, and I have loved it ever since. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. But it doesn't have to be that way. OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called erp, or Exposure and Response Prevention. I have done this for many years now, and it has worked wonders for me. And with no cd, you can do live virtual ERP therapy for. With licensed therapists. That was not an option when I was first doing this, and I wish it had been. That would have been great. With licensed therapists who specialize in ocd. No CD therapists are highly trained, so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about.
- [03:02]
Em
You know, no CD therapy is also covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. So for the people out there who are thinking like, you know, a lot like Christine, but they don't know if they can get the help with no CD therapy, hopefully you're covered. And if you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with our team to learn more. That's nocd.com to schedule a free call and learn more.
- [03:38]
Christine
Hello, everyone. Welcome to and that's why we.
- [03:41]
Em
Oh, my God. So that's why we wheeze. That's why we hack.
- [03:47]
Christine
I feel like I am.
- [03:49]
Em
You okay?
- [03:51]
Christine
Just. I don't know. I feel like there's a. There's a. I think I finally understand the phrase there's a frog in my throat. Is that a phrase? And I don't even want to say it. There's a frog that is in my throat.
- [04:02]
Em
Yeah, but I never understood what that meant either, so.
- [04:05]
Christine
Well, I do. I do now. And it's not enjoyable. It feels like there's a frog in my throat.
- [04:10]
Em
Are you. Is it just allergies?
- [04:12]
Christine
I think so. It must be. We just did an ad for Zocdoc, and that's when I realized, wait a minute, maybe it's allergies, like I realized during the copy read. But you Know, good thing I have. Speaking of ads, another A little Angry Orchard bevy here because as we are now working with them, they sent us a nice array of beverages. And I'm going to just crack this one open early because I think I need to lubricate the frog.
- [04:44]
Em
See where it takes you. See where that little. That little froggy goes? How's it feel?
- [04:49]
Christine
To be clear, I'm not, like, required to drink this on air. In fact, I think it would be illegal for them to require me to drink anything on air. I do so willingly. And it just so happens they're also.
- [04:59]
Em
A sponsor, so just works out before.
- [05:02]
Christine
It feels weird or anything. It does. Hey, I feel a lot better already. That's not a medical claim.
- [05:09]
Em
No, but it isn't. That's why we drink claim. Certainly it isn't.
- [05:11]
Christine
And that's why we drink claim, because it does seem to have kind of removed the frog.
- [05:15]
Em
You know, it makes me so mad that it took us years to finally have, like an alcohol. Like. Like this really isn't it at everybody. We're just kind of yapping right now.
- [05:24]
Christine
But because we never really talked about.
- [05:25]
Em
It often, I feel like Angry Orchard. How has it gone? Have we gone so many years and not had, like, a beer? Want to work with us? Or like an, I don't know, ale or cider?
- [05:34]
Christine
When this came through, I was like, finally somebody. And thankfully, something I already love, but, like, I would have taken, you know, I was like. I was like, ready for anyone to step forward. But, yeah, I was excited when that happened. And my mini fridge is chock a block full, so that's nice for me too.
- [05:51]
Em
Well, I'm happy for you. If for some reason a BlackBerry farmer wants to sponsor us, I'm also eating on camera, so.
- [05:56]
Christine
Well, Leon and I just, as I said, went BlackBerry picking at a BlackBerry farm. So should I have dropped off my business card?
- [06:05]
Em
Maybe just slipped a little a phone number in there?
- [06:07]
Christine
Yeah, yeah, I think that's. That's what I'll do. But, yeah. So sorry to just barge in, but that is what I drink this week, a nice refreshing cider. And the reason I drink is because Leona has. She's not seeing anything ghostly, but it's almost like her insistence that there are no ghosts is making me more. It's almost like she's thou doth protest too much. You know, it's sort of like she. Like, not that I ever bring up ghosts, but sometimes she'll be like, ghosts aren't real. And I'm like, why do you feel the need to tell me that? You know, it's like.
- [06:44]
Em
It's either Blaze, like, priming her to say this to you, right?
- [06:49]
Christine
So.
- [06:49]
Em
So, like, Leona gets on Team Skeptic, or all the ghosts in the house are telling her to tell you this.
- [06:56]
Christine
Okay, okay. Both are. Both are red flags. One is a red flag about my red flag and parent and Blaze parenting style. The other is a red flag about just our whole existence in this home. So neither are great. Now.
- [07:08]
Em
You think it comes from.
- [07:09]
Christine
I. You know what's so funny is, like, sometimes I get kind of mixed up when I tell the story. When people ask us in interviews, you know, like, how long. When did you become interested in, like, scary, spooky stuff? And for me, I was such a scaredy cat. Like, you know, I'm a huge scaredy cat. I don't even watch horror movies. I was such a scaredy cat as a kid that I would just, like, literally lay in my bed and be like, those aren't real. Like, cover my eyes with things. Like, I don't know if I ever did see anything, but I must have known something was there, because I was hardcore, like, dissociating, trying to, like, not. And I used to just convince myself. And I remember one time I begged my mom, I said, when. When you die. I was probably, like, nine. I was like, when you die, do not haunt me. Do not leave me a sign. Do not. And she was like, why? Why? I would love to. And I was like, I can't. Like, I can't tolerate it. I'm way too scared, like, for some reason.
- [08:05]
Em
Did you make, like, an early trauma.
- [08:07]
Christine
With a ghost, I wonder, because I'm like, I was so hardcore about it. But then on the flip side, like, I was obsessed about, like, finding out more about hauntings and psychic phenomenon and aliens. Like, so I don't know if there. Maybe there was something that happened, but the way that now she is, like, there are no ghosts. And Blaze definitely does not say that. I don't think he would ever say that because probably a. Because I'd divorce him. But I think he's. But he believes more than he lets on. But, like, I've never brought it up in front of her because I also don't want her to, like, get scared or think about it, you know? Like, I'm not trying to put that in her head, but sometimes she'll bring it up, and then sometimes I'll say, good morning, and I'll say, like, I had a dream about you last night, and like, we. She's like, what did we do? And I'm like, oh, we just, like, went to the cafe and we accidentally. Accidentally ate a carrot or whatever. I, like, tell her the story, and she laughs. And I'm like, did you have any dreams without fail? She goes, I don't have dreams. And she says it, like, so aggressively. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, everybody has dreams. And she's like, I don't have dreams. And she. And I said, well? And she goes, well, how do dreams happen? I was like, well, when you fall asleep, you close your eyes. She goes, oh, well, I don't close my eyes when I sleep. And I was like, why does she.
- [09:21]
Em
Want to be Wednesday Adam so badly? I don't know.
- [09:24]
Christine
But, like, also, she doesn't. Because she's like. She's like, I don't dream. I don't even close my eyes. And I'm like, what is she, like, pushing up against? I don't know. Like, I've never tried to show her anything scary. We've. The only time we've ever talked about a ghost was the time that Blaze, like, mentioned that window closing. And she said, let's go find the ghost. And I said, okay. And I followed her lead. But, like, I don't. This is not a household where I'm gonna scare her. Because I was so scared as a kid that, like, sometimes I'm like, blaze, you know, this Disney movie is way too scary for her. And he's like, she's fine, Christine. And, like, she usually is. But, like, I was so scared and sensitive that I'm, like, hyper aware of that. So I don't know. I don't know. But she's been, like, pushing back.
- [10:06]
Em
Is she scared of the dark?
- [10:08]
Christine
Not at all, or. Not that I know of. She's never expressed that. In fact, she, like, doesn't, like, a nightlight on or anything, so. And she's never said anything about closets or, like, none of the usual kind of stuff that you He. You know, that I remember feeling or hearing.
- [10:22]
Em
I wonder. I don't know.
- [10:23]
Christine
And it's been, like, totally chill, but there's just this, like, weird insistence. And then I heard Blaze in there last night saying. And she kept saying, when is it morning? When is it morning? And he's like, well, when you fall asleep. And she's like. She's like, I'm not going to fall asleep. I'm going to keep my eyes open all night. And I'm like, is she having bad dreams? And she's not telling us. I don't know. Anyway, could she be, like, just, like.
- [10:43]
Em
A little kid who, like, desperately doesn't want to go to bed?
- [10:45]
Christine
Who doesn't want to go to bed? That's, like. That's what I'm assuming, and that's what I'm hoping. It's just kind of like a. Like a Trying to be kind of contrary thing, because I'm like, I. I hope you tell me if some. If it was something else, you know?
- [10:56]
Em
But I hope she ends up liking ghosts in general, because I. That would be fun if you guys got to tell her all your stories one day. I know Blaze doesn't really have too many, but maybe one day. What was that story that happened in time.
- [11:07]
Christine
In time, he will.
- [11:08]
Em
What was the thing that happened to him? The.
- [11:10]
Christine
Oh, with the footsteps on the stairs, and he. Basically, it was like, no, there was.
- [11:16]
Em
Something on the highway. Wasn't there? Like, a girl on the highway? Oh, was that a ghost?
- [11:22]
Christine
Yeah. He and I were walking from the beach in the middle of the night, like, through this, like, kind of path on an island. We were. It's a long story. We were visiting. We were crashing my stepmom's house at this, like, fancy island, and we. We were super broke, so we were like, let's go and drink a lot of champagne and then, like, go back to college the next day. And so we. Because we were, like, in. I was in Boston, and it was, like, nearby. And so, yeah, we were walking through this kind of marshy, like. But middle of the night, like, moon's out, and there's just this, like, figure up there, and it's kind of, like, almost corn. Stocky. Like, it's so thick, you can't really go through it.
- [12:00]
Em
But it was like a fog figure or like, a person?
- [12:03]
Christine
No, it was like a woman stick standing there in, like, this dress. And of course, we freaked the out. And so it got to the point that I literally took my glass bottle because I was like, we need a weapon. Like, we were so scared, and I took the glass bottle, and, like, I was like, I'm gonna shatter this and, like, use it if I need to. Like, we were so freaked out, and we got close, and it was, like, almost. It was so strange. It was almost like we skipped, like. Like. Like we skipped forward in time for a.
- [12:35]
Em
Shut up. Like a time glitch.
- [12:37]
Christine
Yeah. Because all of a sudden, she was gone. Like, we had. Why?
- [12:41]
Em
I don't remember this at all.
- [12:43]
Christine
Like, we had passed her, but then she was kind of Gone. And then we turn around and, like, she wasn't there. And we were like, well, that's. And we were like, maybe we made her nervous. But then we're looking around and we're like, where did she go? Like, she wouldn't have wandered off. I mean, maybe she did.
- [12:58]
Em
She's faded away.
- [12:59]
Christine
But then she just. Like, it wasn't even fading. It was just like she was there. She wasn't there. And then Blaze was so free. I was like, it's just a girl, like, looking for friends or something. And Blaze was like, no, that was a ghost. He's convinced.
- [13:14]
Em
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think it is?
- [13:17]
Christine
You don't think it was a ghost? I know why I was. She had a cell phone, I think. Like, I saw a light, and I was like, so maybe it's not. So that's why I was convinced it was not a ghost.
- [13:25]
Em
Maybe she's ethereal and glowing. I don't know.
- [13:27]
Christine
I don't know. And I also couldn't see her that well because I was busy Googling how to make a weapon out of a Sam Adams bottle or something. But, yeah, she was kind of there, and then she wasn't. But it was weird because she was wearing, like, a weird long skirt, and it wasn't, like, the right vibe, you know, but she had a phone. And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it's like a newer ghost. I don't know if anyone died there recently, but it was very strange because it was also middle of the night and, like, this is a very solitary place. Like, this was on someone's property. Like, there's no way. It wasn't, like, in a. In a public area either. Like, I don't know. It was just strange.
- [14:04]
Em
Well, thanks for. I didn't even. I didn't mean for you to tell me the whole story, but that was awesome.
- [14:07]
Christine
I. I think I never really fully told it because I feel kind of bad because I'm like, that's the one Blaze believes in and I don't, which is.
- [14:14]
Em
What are the odds?
- [14:15]
Christine
Opposite of the usual. But, yeah. Sorry. I feel like I'm taking so much time.
- [14:18]
Em
But, no, I don't even know how we got on there. Oh. Because maybe the two of you one day can sit with Leona and tell.
- [14:23]
Christine
Your spooky story, tell our tales. Oh, and he's been with me in, like, Halifax, and so when we did those ghost tours. So, you know, one of these days he'll experience something again, whether he likes it or not.
- [14:33]
Em
Yeah. No, I, I, I hope you guys go back to five fishermen or whatever that restaurant was.
- [14:37]
Christine
Oh, I want. I, I He's very excited about that episode coming out. Also, why do you drink this week? Do you have anything specifically that you're drinking?
- [14:50]
Em
I was drinking an iced tea and then I finished it too early. I got too excited.
- [14:56]
Christine
To be fair, we were both kind of crotchety old men hacking up a lung. So any beverage that was available, I was also drinking the power of editing.
- [15:07]
Em
Because otherwise we would sound disgusting during most of our recordings.
- [15:11]
Christine
Yeah, poor Jack has to hear, like, the worst of the worst sides of our. Our nasally voices.
- [15:16]
Em
Yeah, no, I just drank water with my pills. Everybody take your pills. One of you forgot, so take it.
- [15:22]
Christine
Oh, I did not today, which is a win for me.
- [15:26]
Em
And we'll drink some water. Little rats, please. Thank you.
- [15:29]
Christine
Oh, I even have my rat. Not my rat. I have my rat. Hey, I got a rat.
- [15:35]
Em
M, I would have needed a full explanation.
- [15:38]
Christine
You would have probably just believed me. I got my drink up, Christine. Rat.
- [15:44]
Em
Love it. Mine. Mine is in the wash right now. But no, I don't have a real reason why I drink. I think just more dog stuff. I mean, he's consumed my entire life. Just stand up.
- [16:03]
Christine
When M hopped on, I said, what's the shirt you're wearing? I just saw the shoulders. They were very purple. I said, show me the shirt. It is puffy hankies. And it is the word hankies in puffy paint, basically. But like this beautiful bubble letters. Bubble letters? That's what they're called. Yeah, and it's purple. It's like Scooby Doo colors. Purple with green puffy. Oh, my gosh. And it says hankies. And I saw the shoulders and I thought of this purple shirt and I thought, that's something special.
- [16:30]
Em
I.
- [16:31]
Christine
So he's consumed your life, you say?
- [16:34]
Em
Yeah. I. This isn't the only shirt either that I bought on Etsy as a, as a custom made hankies shirt. There's. Yeah, I feel like half my wardrobe is now Hanky's clothes.
- [16:43]
Christine
That's gonna have to be its own Tick Tock account or. I don't know.
- [16:46]
Em
I know I didn't even. It's gotten to a point where I have enough that I don't even know I'm wearing them now. And at the dog park, someone's like, does your shirt say hankies? And I went, yeah, but, oh, yeah, anyone who doesn't know that his name is Hankies, they think like, like a hanky, like a handkerchief or something.
- [17:00]
Christine
And I'm like, panky.
- [17:01]
Em
What a weird thing to promote. Anyway. Yeah, it's just.
- [17:06]
Christine
It's.
- [17:07]
Em
I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to break the separation anxiety thing he's got going on. I'm trying to get him less scared of water. I'm just.
- [17:16]
Christine
You did have a lot of people weighing in in the comments. I don't know if you saw the training comments, but I was like. I was like, oh, boy. I don't know if I was even going to see these, but there were a lot of tips coming in.
- [17:29]
Em
Oh, I'll go check that out. I got. I saw people in my DMs, and it was a large amount of people. Mainly crate training, which we're gonna start dealing.
- [17:39]
Christine
I guess that was. That was one thing on Spotify as well.
- [17:42]
Em
Excuse me. It's just a lot. I am feeling a little bit like a prisoner in my own home because every time I leave, he destroys something. And so I'm like, like, we gotta fix this.
- [17:52]
Christine
Why do you leave the house?
- [17:54]
Em
You know what for? No good reason, apparently.
- [17:56]
Christine
To get a BlackBerry from Erewhon or something.
- [18:01]
Em
You know, according to Hank, to do absolutely nothing but piss him off to ruin his life.
- [18:05]
Christine
Yeah. He's like, such a teenager.
- [18:08]
Em
Well, like, I. Like, I have been really itching to go to, like, back to Universal since I'm home. Like, I want to go there, and I have my season pass. I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow. I'm already terrified about what he's going to destroy. Then what is it?
- [18:20]
Christine
Like, what is. What is out? That can be just, like, furniture or, like, what was he.
- [18:24]
Em
It's not. So far, it's not furniture. But he always finds, like, something. Like, he always. And I don't know where he finds it because, like, I try to hide everything. I put them in other rooms, and then it's like that thing teleports into the room that he's in. I don't know because the door is so closed, but it magically appears in here. And I'm like, how the fuck did you get that? Like, shirts, socks. Oh, geez. I keep waiting for the day that he grabs something that's like, glass and it shatters. I keep waiting and then he eats the glass like it's going to be something horrible. But one time I got a. I had a, like, weighted ankle things. Ankle weights?
- [19:04]
Christine
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [19:04]
Em
I walk them all the time. And now I've become like, one of those walkers. I love that he ate the sandbag. He ate all the sand. And I was like, that shit's gonna absorb in his stomach. It was a whole doctor's appointment. He's fine, obviously. But I was like, he just ate a bag of sand.
- [19:20]
Christine
Are you regulars at the vet now?
- [19:22]
Em
Yeah, they know him.
- [19:24]
Christine
Mr. Glitter Shoes.
- [19:25]
Em
Mr. Glitter Shoes knows him a little too well now.
- [19:27]
Christine
And all the things inside his belly. Yeah.
- [19:30]
Em
And he just. Right now I am. I'm trying to do a lot more. Like, I'll do a quick 15 minute walk and see how long he can. Like, how long until he starts grabbing things. And I'm going to slowly try to start, like, incrementally growing the time, but still, like, I want to, like, go to a movie. And that's like two, three hours of my time that I'm, like, paranoid now about him. Thank God I have cameras in here, but there's only so much I can do from far away. I just get to watch the horror.
- [19:57]
Christine
Um, just watch it unfold.
- [19:58]
Em
Yeah, I just got Blair Witch Dog. Yeah. Just watch him eat a bag of sand. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I just. I'm also worried, like, what if I hide everything? And then now he tries to go for whatever's left, which is like, electrical cords or something.
- [20:12]
Christine
Like, you're like, let me leave a decoy out. Did. What if you buy dog toys that are shaped like things that are not. I mean. Oh, no, that would probably just be reinforcing the behavior, Frank.
- [20:22]
Em
Well, there's also. There's only so many dog toys he can have. Like, because, like, he can't have any plushies or stuffed animals because he just eats them in whole. He eats. He ate a whole tennis ball. He's eaten a whole shoe. Like, he's. I don't know where it goes.
- [20:34]
Christine
Insatiable. Yeah. What if. Not. What if I have no. I've. No.
- [20:39]
Em
What if.
- [20:40]
Christine
What if I have no tips whatsoever? I'm so sorry to say, I don't know how to deal with this. But did they. Is there even room for, like, a crate? Like, somewhere?
- [20:52]
Em
There is.
- [20:52]
Christine
Was there one that came with him or did he. Has he not been.
- [20:55]
Em
Oh, okay, so he was never crate trained and he.
- [20:58]
Christine
Oh, I thought he was for some reason.
- [21:00]
Em
You know what's weird? I don't. I guess it's not that weird in the world of, like, dog behavior, from what I've read about is that he never had separation anxiety when he first came here, and he was much better left alone when he came here, but I guess it's because he didn't give a shit about us. So he didn't have separation anxiety. And now that he cares, he's like, where are you going? And I think he's getting more comfortable because it's like his home and I. Anyway, so at first we were like, man, this is great. We don't even need to crate train this dog. He's totally fine by himself in the house for hours. Like, for like, six hours. He was totally fine at one point.
- [21:34]
Christine
He bamboozled you.
- [21:35]
Em
He's, like, reverting. It's like, what's that? Reverse cycling or whatever when, like, a baby can't sleep anymore.
- [21:40]
Christine
Oh, my God. Wow. That word just triggered something very primal in my brain. Thank you.
- [21:46]
Em
That's how it feels. I'm like, why are you getting worse all of a sudden? But apparently that's what happens when they get settled into a place, so.
- [21:53]
Christine
Oh.
- [21:55]
Em
So anyway, I. The only reason I drink is because I'm trying to, like, get a little freedom back, you know? I hate being inconvenienced. And this dog is taking away all.
- [22:05]
Christine
My convenience about you. That is what they say about you proudly. That's fine. As opposed to me, who loves being inconvenienced. Yeah, that's true. That's my favorite part about that trait that you say. You're like, I hate being inconvenienced. That's one big thing.
- [22:18]
Em
I know, because nobody likes it.
- [22:20]
Christine
Has anybody ever said I love?
- [22:23]
Em
But it's. It's the thing that I absolutely refuse to tolerate. Compared to, like, I think other people are like, oh, that's annoying. But whatever. In my mind, I'm like, please don't bother me.
- [22:31]
Christine
Yeah. Yeah. You really shouldn't. You really should have. You really should have seen this coming, my friend. I mean, you must have. On an intellectual level.
- [22:39]
Em
I did. And part. I mean, I'm literally wearing a shirt with his name on it. Obviously, I don't hate him, but I really. I also still, every now and then, have some of the puppy blues of, like, man, I am aware of all the fun I could be having today if I didn't have to, like, stay here and be worried that you're going to eat everything.
- [22:55]
Christine
So stay here and be worried.
- [22:58]
Em
Yeah. Anyway, so that's why I drink.
- [23:02]
Christine
Wow. Well, I'm glad that you. Well, I'm not glad because you don't have a beverage, but I'm glad that you drank it already and maybe got a little caffeine boost.
- [23:12]
Em
It was really good. It was really good. I. And I had. I had it sent out as my Grandma would say, instead of I got it on, like, doordash or whatever. Oh, I had it sent out.
- [23:22]
Christine
Hey, we gotta start saying that. That's cool.
- [23:24]
Em
Isn't that bringing it back? Yeah.
- [23:26]
Christine
You say like, oh, I sent out for it.
- [23:28]
Em
Yeah. It sounds so much swankier now.
- [23:31]
Christine
I like it.
- [23:32]
Em
I like it, too. But she said something where she's like, oh, I had it sent out. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And it was like.
- [23:38]
Christine
Like a Domino's pizza.
- [23:43]
Em
Anyway, that's. Yeah. So I. I had a very yummy tea. I'll probably have another one sent out later. I don't know.
- [23:50]
Christine
Sent out.
- [23:52]
Em
Until then, I'm drinking water and eating blackberries, but I'm doing them simultaneously, so in my mind it's BlackBerry juice.
- [23:59]
Christine
That's really nice. Yeah, that's all also very health. Healthful for you. Also, like hydrating and.
- [24:06]
Em
Thank you. Well, I'm not really trying to make that conscious of, like, a. A health effort, but I'm also trying to just eat more fruits while they're in season, which has accidentally become a.
- [24:15]
Christine
Health thing, you know, and that. And I feel like that's good on so many levels. I've been trying to get better about that as well.
- [24:22]
Em
Once it's not berry and watermelon season, it's over for me, so.
- [24:26]
Christine
Right. Well, what about corn? That's kind of a thing, I guess.
- [24:30]
Em
Sure.
- [24:31]
Christine
Well, I guess corn's also summer. Yeah, I agree.
- [24:34]
Em
It's watermelon and berries. That's when I really thrive in the. In the produce department, you know, that is.
- [24:40]
Christine
Yeah. That is what they traditionally say about you and your habitat.
- [24:45]
Em
I'm famous for that. I hate inconveniences, and I love watermelon season.
- [24:49]
Christine
You love the produce aisle between the months of May and August.
- [24:55]
Em
Before we get started, are there any. Are we forgetting anything to say? Do you want to.
- [24:58]
Christine
Oh, we are. Oh, my God. We gotta say this. And we'll do a promo too. But we're very excited we brought on our second show onto our network. It almost sometimes feels like the more excited we are about something, the more we completely block it out of our brains. Like, yeah. When we wrote a book and we kept forgetting to tell people we wrote a book because it, like, felt.
- [25:15]
Em
I don't know.
- [25:16]
Christine
But yes. I'm so glad you asked, too. We should ask every time. This is the first time.
- [25:19]
Em
We should.
- [25:20]
Christine
Hey, by the way, happy angel number. If anyone out there, their angel number is 444. This one's for you. Shout Out. Yep. I'm Always Crazy. That was also my. My number.
- [25:31]
Em
This is the I'm Always Crazy episode, everybody. Now, that's loved. This is where. Now, since it's the I'm Always Crazy episode, I am going to ask you after this, after we do all of our plugs, to tell us something crazy about you.
- [25:46]
Christine
Okay, we'll see.
- [25:47]
Em
Get ready.
- [25:48]
Christine
Always crazy with a Z at the end. You bet you didn't see that coming.
- [25:55]
Em
That's crazy.
- [25:56]
Christine
That is pretty crazy. I'm wild, you know. Yes. We brought our second podcast onto parapods Network. We're so excited. Creeps and Crimes, our lovely friends have joined. I'm just so thrilled we have Ladies and Tangents and Creeps and Crimes. You probably heard the Ladies and Tangents episode last week. If you haven't, please listen. It is so fun. I learned things about M and vice versa that we've never talked about, like ghost stories and things that happen at sleepovers. And yeah, it was just a blast. And we're gonna be on their show soon too. And now Creeps and Crimes is in the mix and we're just. I mean, I'm my. I'm just over the moon about it.
- [26:32]
Em
It's starting to feel like we're. If it feels like the beginning of when we started a podcast where I'm like, wow, I can't believe, like, we got an ad and it's like, now I can't believe, like, with the networks. I can't to feel surreal.
- [26:44]
Christine
It's like when we wrote the book too. It's like it doesn't even feel real. But it's so exciting. And we're just so honored that they wanted to. They trusted us enough to. To work with us and. Yeah. So Creeps and Crimes, Ladies and Tangents. Yeah, check them out. Par.
- [26:58]
Em
Check them out. And also if you are a Ladies and Tangents fan or if you're looking for something to do. August 20th, they start their sleepover themed. That's Right tour and it's called Bros Gone Mild.
- [27:10]
Christine
Girls Gone Mild. Very important. Pajamas encourage.
- [27:12]
Em
As for dress code and the scripts and crime. Are they on tour right now? I don't think so.
- [27:19]
Christine
I don't know.
- [27:21]
Em
Sorry I really threw this on you last.
- [27:23]
Christine
Eva. The producer seems to know everything about every. She has like, thr. She has blossomed into like, I don't know. It has to be way above producer now. She's kind of like, yeah, the marionette guy who is Geppetto.
- [27:36]
Em
Yes, absolutely.
- [27:38]
Christine
What was supposed to be a compliment into a gigantic Insult and I'm sorry, Eva, I didn't mean it like that.
- [27:45]
Em
No. Everybody go check them out and. Yeah. Or we're just very excited. This feels like early romance. Butterflies in our tummies.
- [27:53]
Christine
Yeah. It's kind of like honeymoon phase, but it's gonna last forever.
- [27:58]
Em
And also proud of us for, you know, climb into that next step and podcast.
- [28:03]
Christine
I know it feels really special and it feels like very fulfilling. It feels very fulfilling because it. It's sort of this full circle of try, you know, scrabbling to figure out a podcast and then helping, you know, finding other podcasts that have done the same and kind of supporting each other. It's just really cool.
- [28:20]
Em
Yeah. Also, would you like to plug your own tour?
- [28:25]
Christine
I guess so. Hey, I'm also on tour and you can come see Beach 2 Sandy. We read one star reviews of things in your town. It used to be like, you know, important things like the Statue of Liberty. I don't mean important, but like historical landmark, well known things. And then my brother decided he was gonna just start scrolling Google Maps and clicking on random Walgreens. And he gets more claps when he announces his locations because he says, this is the, I don't know, insomnia cookie storefront on third Street. And everyone's like, that's where I get my cookies. And I'm like, this is a bridge. And everyone's like, I don't care about that. But that is something I'm processing separately, so don't even worry about it. We read one star reviews of places in your town. It's pretty fun. We've had a very good time. I drink long. We. We started a bit, quote unquote, where we drink Long island iced teas on stage. Love it. When I say a bit, it's not really a bit because we actually just do that.
- [29:20]
Em
Is it like to slowly devolve into.
- [29:23]
Christine
I mean, drunken chaos? They're fun and we like them and so. And I'm sure it does contribute to that as well. But for the Chicago show, promised that if it sold out, we would take shots of Malort on stage. Do you know what Malort is? Boy, howdy. So last time we were in Detroit, my brother mentioned not knowing what Malort was. And I was so shocked because being from the Midwest, I'm like, of course you know what Malort is. And he didn't. And someone in the audience had a server bring us two shots of Malort.
- [29:50]
Em
Shut up.
- [29:51]
Christine
And I was like, actually, this went the opposite of how I planned. But we both took the shot. And it's basically this very. It's only in Chicago. It's like. Like pretty putrid.
- [30:02]
Em
What does it taste like?
- [30:03]
Christine
Like, is there absinthe?
- [30:05]
Em
It's like licorice.
- [30:06]
Christine
Yeah, it's like that wormwood, like. Yeah. And it's. It's. It's a wild taste. It's.
- [30:13]
Em
Does it get you messed up?
- [30:14]
Christine
Well, people say it's like a good. It makes you go like. So. Yeah. It really. Can you.
- [30:20]
Em
The Roger Rabbit sound.
- [30:22]
Christine
Yeah, exactly. It's very bitter. It's like an acquisition. See, they call it an acquired taste. That's how. You know I hate when they use that phrase, an acquired taste. Yeah. I actually do like it because I do like an acquired taste, but I think you would not like it. It's very absinthe. And also it's outcome. So. Yeah. Not your thing.
- [30:43]
Em
Understood.
- [30:44]
Christine
Well, thank you for giving me the room for the plug.
- [30:47]
Em
Always. I have not.
- [30:49]
Christine
Do you have anything to plug?
- [30:50]
Em
No. I've got a dog named Hank, and now I just.
- [30:53]
Christine
And a shirt named Hank.
- [30:55]
Em
I've become just like this little single parent situation over here.
- [30:59]
Christine
Yeah, we knew this would ha. I mean, we. We didn't know the single parent, but we did know that you would become the parent of the dog.
- [31:04]
Em
I knew that one day it won't be a single parent situation. But I. I do tease Allison.
- [31:09]
Christine
Cough that.
- [31:10]
Em
I do tease her that, like, this is about a bit of a teen mom situation where she's.
- [31:14]
Christine
Oh, my gosh. You're right. Oh, my gosh.
- [31:18]
Em
We decided to adopt the dog. And she went, peace. And I'm. And now this dog absolutely doesn't know who you are. He'll meet you when you get here, I guess.
- [31:26]
Christine
Yeah. And she was driving force behind a dog, if I recall. And the one who signed up for fostering.
- [31:33]
Em
It's all true. But it ended up probably working out in my favor because now this dog has, like, imprinted on me. And now when Allison gets here, I'll be. We can look at each other, me and the dog, and can judge and be like.
- [31:45]
Christine
You're like, it's two against one, so whatever you want goes.
- [31:48]
Em
When Allison's like, what do we do for. What should we go do for fun this weekend? And Hank will be like, what are we gonna do for fun? Like, she doesn't.
- [31:55]
Christine
Hank's like, you don't get to leave because I will eat all of your stuff.
- [31:58]
Em
So I have told of, like, I hope you enj. Leaving all your everywhere right now.
- [32:04]
Christine
Things are. Things are getting Wild over here.
- [32:06]
Em
Consider that over when you get leave.
- [32:08]
Christine
Your valuables in South Carolina.
- [32:10]
Em
Okay, well, I've got a story. Oh, wait. What's the craziest thing you've ever done? I'm always crazy. 444.
- [32:18]
Christine
So are we talking like, what is the like, kind of dealer's choice?
- [32:23]
Em
What's like just give us a crazy story or a crazy crazy. If it's too much, then what's just like a crazy fun fact about anything? Just give us something crazy.
- [32:31]
Christine
Okay, I'll give you something crazy. Hold on.
- [32:41]
Em
I bet it's gonna be great.
- [32:45]
Christine
It's getting worse every second. The thoughts I'm have, the, the ideas I'm having are getting markedly worse with every passing moment.
- [32:53]
Em
That's good. That's what I like to hear.
- [32:54]
Christine
Yeah. Oh, I know something.
- [32:56]
Em
Okay.
- [32:57]
Christine
One time, the horrible school. Okay, let me say that again. Well, I mean, I stand by it. One time, the school that I attended when I was in a.
- [33:09]
Em
We last.
- [33:10]
Christine
My youth. We last. They did something called. I don't think they do it anymore. I hope to God they don't. They did something called shantytown where we all brought. Where we all brought boxes and put them up on the school property and slept in them overnight to get the true experience of what being quote unquote homeless is like. And then we had a as. As basically they reframed it. A recovered homeless person come speak to us about how to not be home, how it's so bad to be homeless. And then we got on the metro bus and deep shame here about this. It was my first time on the metro bus and I was 16, 15 maybe. And we went downtown to panhandle. Literally. This was the assignment. Yeah. At the stadium outside of Reds game. And so we had to stand there and by the way, we were still in our school uniforms, which were, you know, plaid and button down blouses with Peter Pan collars, the whole nine yards. And you know, knee length gray wool skirts. And we're, you know, doing our knee high socks and we're doing our panhandling. And then they let us keep the money and I'm like. And then we saved up enough money to buy. To order pizza because you're not supposed to eat food because you're homeless. Like this is literally the logic of this administration of my school.
- [34:46]
Em
And then you ate the pizza. Not getting.
- [34:48]
Christine
Oh yeah, no, because we got back to our private school property and then ordered pizza and someone's mom brought it and we ate and said, wow, being homeless is so hard.
- [34:58]
Em
So you started the day by panhandling as a homeless person, and by the end, you had your pizza sent out.
- [35:04]
Christine
Sent out. Exactly. Exactly.
- [35:08]
Em
That is actually and by definition always crazy.
- [35:14]
Christine
Thank you so much. And this was, by the way, if anyone needs contact, this was the year 2007, I believe, down 6. And they. I know for a fact they did it for several more years. I mean, there were all sorts of nonsensical things that happened there, but that one is so egregious. And I. I felt such guilt for a long time about, like, why didn't I take this money and you. And then I'm like, I was 15. I literally was just kind of doing my assignment. I didn't even process it until I was older. And I went, this is really bad. Anyway, my daughter's not going to that school, FYI, in case you're wondering.
- [35:45]
Em
Well, if it makes you feel any better to try to relay some safety your way, in college, we. We didn't. It was not to that level, but we had an event that was like an annual event that everyone would go nuts for at my college, where you would all find a cardboard box and then all have a big sleepover on the lawn. And it was also to simulate homelessness.
- [36:07]
Christine
What was our problem? Why were we all doing this happening? It's this weird. Yeah.
- [36:11]
Em
And I. I will, you know, also, I also absolutely take shame in that. But I do remember finding out later it was about homelessness. I thought everyone was having a big, like, cardboard box, you know, that's so funny.
- [36:25]
Christine
So it wasn't even, like. I thought it was clearly obvious. It was just like, oh, we're all bringing boxes and making forts.
- [36:30]
Em
I knew it was for some, like, sorority, ironically charity event. Hopefully they were giving their money to fudgeing actual unhoused people.
- [36:38]
Christine
Well, how many pizzas came? A lot. See, it's like, what in the.
- [36:44]
Em
I remember seeing a bunch of people, like, taking cardboard boxes out there and then, like, hanging out on the lawn. I was like, oh, cool. Like, in my mind, it was like, in. Out of the box, they make a bunch of cardboard boxes and turn into, like, a tree house. I was like, oh, wow, we're just making, like, a big human sized, I mean, hamster tunnel.
- [36:57]
Christine
That's what I would have guessed. Unless it were, like, very obvious. Especially if it's like a raucous party.
- [37:02]
Em
You know, that's what I thought. And then all of a sudden I realized, like, oh, no, we're all pretending we're homeless. And I went, that's crazy.
- [37:11]
Christine
Ye. Wow.
- [37:12]
Em
Christine. Well. Well done. I thought you were gonna say pictures.
- [37:16]
Christine
I can send those to Megan. Em's face is signifying to me that I wasn't reading social cues correctly until now, and I should not share this photos.
- [37:26]
Em
Okay, if. Maybe if you put an emoji of, like, a really ashamed person over your face.
- [37:31]
Christine
I mean, I'm really hoping it's obvious that, like, the way that I'm throwing around this terminology, you know, I'm not sincerely saying that this is anything worthwhile. In fact, I find it.
- [37:43]
Em
No one hears that of you.
- [37:44]
Christine
Very damaging. Okay, good. Just making sure.
- [37:46]
Em
What was I gonna say? What was I gonna say? I thought you were gonna just throw, like, a fun fact.
- [37:50]
Christine
I did, too. That's the craziest part. M. I did, too. And I was, like, suddenly, like, where is this coming from? I did have therapy this morning, and it. We did a lot of internal family systems, and I think, like, all sorts of ages of me are just, like, dying to speak up, you know?
- [38:04]
Em
I see. Well.
- [38:05]
Christine
And I'm always crazy. And I went. Well, here we go.
- [38:09]
Em
Honestly, that was, in fact, crazy. I was. I tried to throw you a softball there of, like, just give me a fun fact. And then you went. I once. I cosplayed as a homeless person.
- [38:19]
Christine
Yeah. Like, for a grade. For a grade.
- [38:23]
Em
What class were you in?
- [38:24]
Christine
Religion.
- [38:25]
Em
Oh, I'm serious.
- [38:28]
Christine
Religion class with Nora.
- [38:30]
Em
You know what? Religion is always crazy. I'll tell you that.
- [38:33]
Christine
Well, yeah, I bet you. You know, we had to. Okay, ask me next time about the crazy. Maybe this will be a new bit that. Oh, I'm always crazy. Before, when we had to do, like, fake marriages, like, in class, and do, like. We made wedding pamphlets to each other, and it was really strange.
- [38:51]
Em
What?
- [38:51]
Christine
Now it's like, I got a D on it, too, which is the worst good.
- [38:56]
Em
What are you. What is happening?
- [38:57]
Christine
I'll tell you about it later. That's Yappy Hour. That's a story. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'll tell it on yappy Hour. There we go.
- [39:02]
Em
Yeah.
- [39:03]
Christine
I've taken up so much goddamn time here. I don't need to tell you about my fake wedding to.
- [39:08]
Em
I need to know about it, though, is the thing.
- [39:10]
Christine
And I got married to my crush, which was the whole thing. It was crazy.
- [39:13]
Em
That's crazy. Cool.
- [39:14]
Christine
Yeah. Thank you.
- [39:17]
Em
Hank says hi. It's bothering me, and then he's gonna.
- [39:21]
Christine
Sleep someone else to prom. Oh, we'll talk about it later. Wait, where's Hank?
- [39:26]
Em
I'm kind of waiting for his doggy cbd. To kick in because as people know, whenever we record, which is like, by the way, if anyone's concerned, like once a week or sometimes twice a week.
- [39:36]
Christine
Sometimes once a month. Yeah, when, when we.
- [39:38]
Em
But he only gets doggy CBD when we record, so that way he isn't bothering me. And it hasn't kicked in yet. I'm kind of wondering what's going on. Anyway, he's being okay.
- [39:49]
Christine
Maybe you've been foiled yet again.
- [39:51]
Em
Yeah, maybe. I can't wait to hear about that for yappy hour. That your life is a hurricane. I love that.
- [39:57]
Christine
I mean, it's like not by my choice. For the most it is now, but back then it wasn't by my choice, you know.
- [40:04]
Em
Well, okay, let's get into a different type of hurricane. Now that I'm back home and Christine is gallivanting across the nation, I finally have a second to make some dinner for myself. I'm enjoying my my time at home eating some yummy food. But that doesn't mean that I have learned to love shopping or planning my groceries. And luckily, we have Hungry Root by our side. Hungry Root takes the stress out of grocery shopping by filling your cart with personalized selections that get smarter with every order. There's something for every taste and nutrition goal.
- [40:37]
Christine
Yeah. I ate this beautiful lavash wrap with smoked salmon and sliced cucumber and everything. Bagel seasoned hummus earlier today and I thought, oh, that looks complicated. Nope. They literally just send you everything. It's like, here's a thing of hummus. Put it on there, roll it up and there you go. And I was like, this is the best tasting and probably most nutritious thing I've eaten in a long time.
- [41:01]
Em
And you also said lunch when like, that sounds like five star dinner.
- [41:04]
Christine
Exactly. It sounds like a big meal. Right? Exactly. Hungry Root is awesome. I just like, I can't say enough about them.
- [41:10]
Em
Take advantage of this exclusive offer for a limited time. Get 40 off your first box. Plus get a free item in every box for life.
- [41:17]
Christine
Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice for life.
- [41:25]
Em
Hungryroot.com Drink code drink. Well, Christine and I were just talking about how I have been going to a few doctors. I was specifically talking about how I'm losing my hearing. So I go to a hearing doctor. I wouldn't have been able to find that doctor if it weren't for Zoc Doc.
- [41:42]
Christine
I Think a lot of us are contending with seasonal allergies, Spring allergies. I don't think I realized it really, but that's probably why I keep hacking up a lung and having to, you know, make Jack cut it out. I'm realizing now I gotta get back on Zocdoc, which is not a problem because they have got us covered. Whether you need a nearby allergist, like apparently I do a PCP for an initial checkup. Pediatrician for your little ones telehealth just for some quick care. Sock Doc can help you get allergy relief fast so you can be sneezing season.
- [42:12]
Em
Zoc Dock is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. I'm not kidding. Every single doctor I have in Los Angeles is because of Zoc Doc. It's. It has been absolutely a godsend.
- [42:26]
Christine
It is a lovely service, especially for those of us who feel uncomfortable making phone calls. I know there are a lot of us out there or just like anxious about the whole, you know, insurance and going through all the process of that. I know it's a lot. So Sock Doc is awesome. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com drink to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today.
- [42:46]
Em
That's z o c-o c.com drink zocdoc.com drink this is a haunted place in Wales. And this is called the. I hope I'm saying it right, Scurrid Inn. And it is on Skir or it's also something called Skir and Mountain Inn, although most places just called Skirt in at this point. It is in Monmouthshire, Wales on Skirid Mountain, which is probably why it was originally called Skirt Mountain. And fun fact about this mountain, if you needed a fun fact for your crazy thing.
- [43:23]
Christine
But I do.
- [43:24]
Em
Okay, here's something crazy for you. Skirid Mountain in Wales. Apparently the rumor goes that this mountain was struck by lightning and split in half at the exact same moment that Jesus died on the cross.
- [43:36]
Christine
Whoa.
- [43:38]
Em
Obviously I don't know how much source material is out there. Maybe the Bible. Other than that, I don't know who made this claim.
- [43:47]
Christine
Do your own research, people. No.
- [43:49]
Em
Yeah.
- [43:50]
Christine
Imagine. Oh my God. Imagine if somebody asked me like, what's the craziest thing you've ever done? I'm like, did you know that there's this tree?
- [43:59]
Em
I split a tree in half when Jesus died.
- [44:02]
Christine
God. Split a tree in half. This is my favorite fun fact.
- [44:05]
Em
Oh my God, it also.
- [44:07]
Christine
You love that it just happened to be in Wales. Like, I know.
- [44:10]
Em
I'm like. I feel like we could have gotten closer.
- [44:13]
Christine
What's the connection? Like, sister cities? I don't know.
- [44:15]
Em
I don't know. Or, like, I don't know.
- [44:18]
Christine
Oh, whales, Noah. That's a stretch.
- [44:22]
Em
I like where your brain's going, though.
- [44:24]
Christine
Thank you. Was it even Noah who had a whale? He had an ark.
- [44:27]
Em
He had an ark, which he put every animal. Oh, Jonah. And the way. Well, technically, wouldn't Noah have whales on the ark? Or does he need to work?
- [44:36]
Christine
He would have. Oh, maybe fish. Maybe not the underwater animals. Animals. Because they were already wet.
- [44:42]
Em
Right. I. I mean, I don't know enough about Noah, but did he have to give a.
- [44:46]
Christine
About, like, my big question is amphibians, right? Like, if, like, do they need to take a dip or did he have, like, a little. A waiting pool for them on board?
- [44:56]
Em
Yeah. Did he just kind of grab a frog and just kind of dunk it underwater?
- [45:00]
Christine
Exactly. And like, how would he have known? Like, the exact, you know, kind of like, ratio the.
- [45:05]
Em
The biological need of every animal this. Was he a zoologist?
- [45:10]
Christine
Yeah. Like. Like, who gave him that? Right? Oh, I guess God did. Okay, well, that answers that question. That answers that. Next.
- [45:18]
Em
Well, so this inn is said to date back almost a thousand years.
- [45:25]
Christine
Whoa.
- [45:25]
Em
Every time we're up. I know I say it every time. I'm so sorry to all the international people who think this is annoying. It always blows my mind just because of how young America is. But. Or how young the US is.
- [45:36]
Christine
But.
- [45:36]
Em
Yeah, apparently over 900 years is how long this inn has said to be around. If that's true, that makes it either the oldest pub in Wales or one of the oldest pubs in Wales. I like how 900 years doesn't even make you the oldest, give or take. I say if that's true because a lot of the information out there is fuzzy. First of all, I don't know how many documents are out there that are a thousand years old, but there is allegedly an earliest record on the prop about the property dating back to 1110.
- [46:16]
Christine
Whoa.
- [46:17]
Em
And that was, I think, when it was already a building or already like an establishment, which means it would be earlier than 11:10.
- [46:23]
Christine
This place open. Pretty cool.
- [46:27]
Em
We can't confirm a few things. First of all, that this is the exact same building. Or maybe it's just a building built on top of the. The same property.
- [46:34]
Christine
Right.
- [46:36]
Em
Also, I saw on a few websites where people were trying to look for these earliest records of the property from 1110 and couldn't find them anywhere. Granted that could be because it's. No one just scanned it into a computer. I don't fucking. But anyway, it said if we're going with like the lore of it all, this place is over 900 years old. However, archaeologists have literally gone to this building and carbon dated parts of it and said that the place is only as old as the 1600s.
- [47:04]
Christine
Oh, okay. Okay.
- [47:06]
Em
So there's a. Only. So there's a big argument over this building's origins. Whether it's the same building or built on top of a previous building. It's still believed that this was always an inn. Regardless of.
- [47:17]
Christine
So the hauntings persist whether the building is the same or not. I imagine blueprint theory, etc that they could still stay there.
- [47:27]
Em
So just know all of the story is a big allegedly with everything I say.
- [47:31]
Christine
Okay, good.
- [47:33]
Em
So if this place is as old as they say it is, then. Or whatever used to be here. At that time in 1175, there was a man named William. He worked with King John and he learned that his uncle was killed by noblemen. And so he wanted revenge. He wanted to avenge his uncle. So he said, come on over to this inn to all the noblemen who killed his uncle. They didn't know.
- [48:00]
Christine
Come on over, come on.
- [48:02]
Em
They apparently didn't know. He was aware of what happened.
- [48:06]
Christine
Oh boy.
- [48:07]
Em
So it was an inside job. And apparently he figured it out. He invited all them over on Christmas night to have dinner together.
- [48:14]
Christine
And then how stupid are these people?
- [48:16]
Em
They waltzed on in and I guess this guy William had some homies and he was like them up and they killed all these people all at once on Christmas night. Like in the sin Red Wedding. Yeah. Another legend about this place is that around 1400 this was the site where Owain Glendor, he's apparently as popular in Wales as like King Arthur. I. I've never heard of this name. But. But in around 1400 he was known to lead the Welsh revolt against English rule. Mm. And a lot of the, let's say pre gaming before their revolts would happen at this inn. They would all gather together.
- [49:01]
Christine
Interesting.
- [49:02]
Em
And.
- [49:02]
Christine
Oh, wow. So there's like heightened happening here.
- [49:05]
Em
Yeah. And like historical.
- [49:07]
Christine
Right, like significant war stuff. Yeah.
- [49:12]
Em
Many of those who did revolt are said to have come here beforehand to all rally the troops together, but then also to come here after the revolt to either drink or have a place to stay. Maybe some of them were wounded and didn't have anywhere else to go. And therefore there are Rumors that soldiers died here because they would have come back after the fight.
- [49:32]
Christine
Oh, my gosh. That's interesting.
- [49:36]
Em
In the 17th century. I know we're skipping a million years, but in the 17th century, this building's top floor was used as a local courthouse, similar to, like, the Whaley house. There was a random courtroom upstairs where.
- [49:49]
Christine
They'Re just, like, whose attic can we use? Yeah.
- [49:54]
Em
And the story goes that this courthouse was ran by a very cruel man named Judge Jeffries, and he was known as the hanging judge.
- [50:03]
Christine
Oh, yeah. I hate to hear that.
- [50:07]
Em
One person that he is said to have sentenced here is future ghost John Crowther. Apparently, some sources said he was the first person to get executed here. Some people said he was the last person to get executed here. I. Whatever.
- [50:23]
Christine
He was executed here.
- [50:25]
Em
That's the important part. He was executed here. And it was for stealing sheep.
- [50:28]
Christine
Oh, boy. Like, five sheep. Well, but I was listening to something about that recent. Not about that, but, like, about the concept of being hanged for stealing a horse. That kind of thing. I mean, and. And I think it was on Astonishing Legends, but they made the point, like, today we might think, like, whatever, it's five sheep. But, like, back then, like, that could be your whole livelihood.
- [50:48]
Em
You know what I mean? That's true.
- [50:49]
Christine
And, like, so. And stealing a horse is, like, basically your mode of transportation, like your. Your work vehicle, etc. Because I was always like, not that I think anyone should be hanged, ever, frankly. But, like, you know, all that aside, I. I got a little perspective shift on that recently.
- [51:08]
Em
Yeah. And maybe the sheep were, like, gonna keep a bunch of people warm in the winter.
- [51:12]
Christine
Like, who knows, Right? Like, how. How much? Yeah. Anyway, so he. Not that I, like, support this judge, by the way. Right. I. I believe fully what you say. That he isn't.
- [51:23]
Em
I promise you cruel man. Nothing you say can be more wild than your shanty town situation.
- [51:29]
Christine
Oh, good. See, that's what I do. I set the bar solo. That. Like nothing else, you know, it's like nothing else really matters.
- [51:38]
Em
No, you're totally fine. We are not proponents of the death penalty. Let's just. Let's just say it out.
- [51:43]
Christine
Yeah. Hey, does anybody need me to write that down in case anyone wondered?
- [51:48]
Em
Moving forward, we are anti death.
- [51:50]
Christine
I'm not that crazy. Please. Okay? I'm crazy. Not crazy.
- [51:55]
Em
Well, so this guy was that crazy because Judge Jeffries, during his time working in this courthouse, sentenced over 180 people here to die.
- [52:06]
Christine
Oh, that's okay. Because when you said he was either the first or last to be hanged I was like, what if he was the only one? Okay, clearly, my friends, you're wrong. Right.
- [52:16]
Em
Fun fact, though. This inn is kind of like just like, house sized. It seems. It doesn't feel like that big of a place. Just like the Whaley house. And so think of the Whaley House when I say this. The holding cell in this courtroom was a small room off of the courtroom. It was basically a closet.
- [52:34]
Christine
Oh.
- [52:36]
Em
Fun fact. Today that holding cell is essentially a pantry. Imagine going to, like, get some, like, frosted flakes.
- [52:44]
Christine
And I was gonna say frosted flakes.
- [52:47]
Em
What the hell? That's so weird. As for the gallows where they would execute these people, it was the staircase.
- [52:59]
Christine
Oh, my God.
- [53:01]
Em
Which is very Whaley House because the.
- [53:03]
Christine
Gallows were the Gallus was the art.
- [53:04]
Em
Yankee Jim hang. Yeah, but so this was the literal staircase. It seemed like there were like three or four flights to this house. And so I'm assuming part of the staircase just had no banister, and they would hang people and just make them walk off the banister and just hang in the middle part of the stairwell.
- [53:23]
Christine
Are you serious? So they used it while it was.
- [53:27]
Em
A stairwell, while it was a staircase.
- [53:28]
Christine
Oh, Jesus. Because at least. I mean, at least. But the Whaley House, like, the arch was built after it was used as. Oh, like on the spot of the. Whoa. That's like.
- [53:39]
Em
Like in your house. Imagine there being a beam at the top floor and just walking off of a part that doesn't have a banister.
- [53:45]
Christine
Actually, I'd rather not.
- [53:47]
Em
I mean, I know, but just to give you an idea.
- [53:49]
Christine
No, no, I get it. That's horrifying. Truly.
- [53:52]
Em
Yeah. So they would force people to walk off the staircase.
- [53:55]
Christine
It's like walking the plank. Like, that's like.
- [53:57]
Em
Yeah.
- [53:57]
Christine
So intentionally creepy and cruel. What the fuck?
- [54:01]
Em
And also to know that when you're walking upstairs to the courtroom and you, like, have to walk up the gallows to go to your hearing to maybe. And it's not like. I mean, no wonder the holding cell was pantry size. You didn't have to wait very long. You just waited till the stairwell was clear.
- [54:18]
Christine
You know, that's so disturbing. Oh, okay. Time for. Time to go. Everyone's cleared out for the day. Oh, yeah.
- [54:26]
Em
There's something in my mind that I feel like I don't. I don't even know how to phrase this, but in my mind, death row would feel like, okay, if I got sentenced to death, at least I still have to go from this facility to another facility. And it feels like there's still at least a couple minutes of time.
- [54:41]
Christine
And so many people, like, stay on death row for so long now. Yeah, yeah.
- [54:46]
Em
But for someone to, like, swing the gavel and say, okay, you're sentenced to death, and now just go out into the hallway and that's where it'll happen.
- [54:53]
Christine
It feels like so instant happened so much faster back then. And then on top of it now you're literally just. I mean, I guess that probably happened more often than we realized, but. Yeah, now you're like in the closet, like, looking at the stairs, going, okay, that's. Here I go.
- [55:08]
Em
Like, I only have 10 steps left in my life. Like, it's just like. It's so swift, you don't have time to process it.
- [55:13]
Christine
That's Maybe that's. Maybe that's good. But I don't know. Nothing else about that sounds good.
- [55:17]
Em
I mean, I imagine just like the. I feel bad, but I imagine like, the panicked screams in that pantry of someone knowing, like, oh, and. And. Or in the holding cell. It's like, in 10 minutes, I'm. They're just gonna. 10 minutes ago, they told me I'm gonna die. In 10 minutes, I'm gonna be dead.
- [55:31]
Christine
Like, that's.
- [55:35]
Em
And even worse is most proper gallows quote. Proper gallows where people would be hanged. There's a trap door, and this is just walking off the stairs. So there's no trapdoor, which means nobody is. There's not got a mechanism helping you break your neck quicker. So all these people were kind of walking off and just immediately hanging instead of dropping, which means they were dying much more slowly.
- [56:02]
Christine
Death. That's horrifying.
- [56:04]
Em
Which means you're also just looking down, like, several flights of stairs and wondering, like, are you gonna die by hanging or is the rope gonna snap and you fall? Like, I mean, like, just the terror of it is awful. To this day is a functioning in. And the wooden beam where people would be hanged is still there. Great with rope burns, like, scored into the wood from people swinging.
- [56:31]
Christine
If. If I only ever believe in one haunted object in my life, it is that beam of wood.
- [56:38]
Em
Well, seriously, I got a second one for you. Because still hanging from the beam is the noose. And people you can just go and just touch.
- [56:48]
Christine
Don't touch it.
- [56:49]
Em
Don't touch it.
- [56:50]
Christine
Don't touch it.
- [56:52]
Em
And I. I hope to God I. I don't hope for this, but of the two, I almost hope that the original one was taken down and, like, another one was put in its place on display or something. It doesn't look like it's like a 500 year old piece of rope.
- [57:06]
Christine
Right, Right. I imagine maybe they just put it up there for like.
- [57:10]
Em
But, but some of the sources I looked at did say, like, oh, the, the noose is still there, but it could be a replica. The beam is still absolutely there. And you can still go up and like touch the beam where, like the dent is from ropes burning into it.
- [57:24]
Christine
You can touch that part. Yeah, that's no good energy.
- [57:29]
Em
So this courtroom has now been divided into two rooms. Kind of like in the Queen Mary. The most haunted room used to be one big room and, or three rooms, and now it's one big room. So the courtroom where all of this energy is has been turned into two rooms which guests can now stay in. And they are called room one and room two. Great. In 2005 really come into the future, Jeff and Sharon Fiddler bought the place and they've been the innkeepers ever since. Jeff apparently even knew about the reputation of this place when he was a kid. But when they, I guess him and his wife already ran a pub somewhere else. And when they saw this one was open, they're like, oh, we're going there. They sometimes host ghost tours there or they have people come and do investigations there. People have hosted seances for the public there. So they do lean into it. And one thing Jeff still does at the inn as the innkeeper is this tradition that apparently has been there since the beginning of time called the puka Puka cup. I almost had puka shell puka cup, where it's spelled P W, C A, but I think it's pronounced. Basically it's this cup that you leave on the mantle in a pub to appease the evil spirits from causing any chaos. It's like.
- [58:52]
Christine
Oh, it's like an offering to.
- [58:54]
Em
Like an offering.
- [58:55]
Christine
Yeah.
- [58:56]
Em
And it said that, that when the inn closes at night, they would take that same cup and leave it at the front door to keep evil spirits from coming in at night when no one's attending.
- [59:06]
Christine
Okay, that's cool.
- [59:08]
Em
Fun fact, I don't know how true this is, but I did see it. The tradition of the puka puka cup allegedly inspired Shakespeare to name the character Puck.
- [59:21]
Christine
Oh.
- [59:22]
Em
In A Midsummer Night's Dream, because stories were word of mouth back then. So by the time he heard it, it might have just turned into pook Puck.
- [59:32]
Christine
Yeah.
- [59:32]
Em
Instead of puka. Anyway.
- [59:35]
Christine
Interesting.
- [59:37]
Em
And yeah, ever since Jeff and Sharon have owned the place, it is still very haunted. One of the. It's one of Whale's most haunted inns and pubs. Pubs. And there was so much content on YouTube that I actually had to give up. I just had to stop watching eventually because I just.
- [59:55]
Christine
I couldn't do never ending.
- [59:57]
Em
Like, I typed in skirt in haunted and it just went forever. And every single one of them was like, a lot of people post their investigations, so every video is like an hour long. And oh, yeah, I was like, I don't know how much this I can get through. So I'm sorry, I can't say I watched everything, but I watched a lot, including two TV spots that this has been on. It's been on the show called Extreme Ghost Stories, and it's been on a show called Most Haunted with Yvette Fielding. Here's the thing about Most Haunted.
- [60:29]
Christine
Ah.
- [60:31]
Em
I don't even know really how to put this one into words, but Most Haunted, their episode of. Of the skirt. The skirt in. They had this medium come on a tour and kind of tell you what he was feeling. I can't tell if he's the. The conception of most of these legends. Like, I can't. I did all of this research and then that was when the last things I watched was that episode.
- [60:57]
Christine
So then you made the connection. I see.
- [61:00]
Em
So when I was watching it, I was like, wow, this psychic is really good. He knows everything. And then in my mind, I would.
- [61:06]
Christine
Start the whole story.
- [61:08]
Em
Oh, and I did. Later I read one paranormal investigator's blog who said, there's a lot of misinformation out there about the history of this place because a medium came on during the show Most Haunted.
- [61:20]
Christine
Oh.
- [61:21]
Em
So that's why I said early on a lot of the stuff is alleged because I don't know which came first. And if he did, if he already knew the background of this place and then started talking about it, or if he really settled this stuff and then.
- [61:32]
Christine
People ran with it, then it just kind of. Yeah. Became the. Became the truth. Right.
- [61:36]
Em
Yeah. So I. I was thinking, I was like, wow, he's really nailing it. This is the best psychic I've ever heard. And I'm like, oh, maybe he created the whole story back.
- [61:43]
Christine
That's like one. One way of, I don't know, being a medium. Just like inventing your own story.
- [61:49]
Em
I know. So anyway, that's why I say take everything with a grain of salt on this place. But it. At the end of the day, it's still all old ass bar.
- [61:58]
Christine
It's definitely still haunted.
- [61:59]
Em
I believe something's happened there.
- [62:01]
Christine
Yeah.
- [62:02]
Em
One of the most haunted areas of this place is of Course, the staircase or the former gallows.
- [62:07]
Christine
So do we know if that's true?
- [62:08]
Em
That is true.
- [62:09]
Christine
Oh, that is true. Okay. A few, I thought, unfortunately, that's true story. Not few, but few. That like, at least he's not making up crazy stories like that.
- [62:17]
Em
But the, the, the courthouse or the courtroom upstairs and the gallows are real. The only thing that might not be real is that the judge's name was Jeffries.
- [62:28]
Christine
Okay.
- [62:30]
Em
But it was a courtroom with gallons.
- [62:32]
Christine
Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I mean, the beam with.
- [62:34]
Em
A noose on it, right?
- [62:36]
Christine
Yeah. I wish that that were not real, but I know we are here.
- [62:39]
Em
We are. Well, so it is the most haunted area. There's a very dark energy there. Sometimes people see a black shadow standing over there. Many have had a hard time breathing on these stairs and they feel like they're being strangled. I also have a hard time breathing downstairs, but not because of a ghost.
- [62:57]
Christine
At the best of times.
- [62:58]
Em
Yeah, but a lot of people feel like they're getting strangled. A lot of people will say that something hurts or they're feeling like they're choked and then later when they leave, there will be rope burns on their neck.
- [63:09]
Christine
Oh, no, no.
- [63:11]
Em
Near the stairs, people also said that they get very nauseous and dizzy and feel violently ill. One man is heard talking upstairs and seen walking down the halls. It's thought to be Judge Jeffries. A lot of the stories that were trying to like over dramaticize this were like, it's George. It's Judge George Jeffries looking for his next victim to hang.
- [63:32]
Christine
And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah, let me go to the bathroom, please. Without that thought. Thank you.
- [63:40]
Em
Yeah. It's like he could, I guess he would be here. That makes sense. Or like it could have been one of the 180 plus people that he.
- [63:46]
Christine
Walking to their death, right?
- [63:48]
Em
Oh, yeah, walking, duh. That immediately convinced me. That's what that is.
- [63:52]
Christine
Thank you.
- [63:54]
Em
Allegedly there's a priest who roams the halls.
- [63:56]
Christine
Oh, no.
- [63:57]
Em
Again, this is something that I heard from the medium on that show. And so I'm like, I don't know how Rudolph, lots of poo poo on mediums. But like, I just don't know what came first at this point, but his name apparently is Father Henry Vaughan and he used to read last rites here for people. Which could be either the gallows or like post revolt maybe.
- [64:18]
Christine
Oh, sure, I forgot about that. Yeah.
- [64:21]
Em
The most famous ghost Here is a 32 year old woman named Fanny Price. She was either depending on which source you're looking At. She was either the in lady, she was the barmaid, or she was married to the landlord. But she was here, she worked here in the 1700s. She's said to have died of our favorite consumption in the building. And if the. What was I gonna say? Oh. She also happens to be buried in the churchyard nearby. So a lot of people have made it a thing of, like, visiting her grave when they go to the end. Okay, so it's a two stop shot.
- [64:57]
Christine
Yeah.
- [65:00]
Em
Fanny is often seen in the inner before she actually appears to people. They will hear either her dress swishing around or they will smell lavender perfume, which to me, I love the smell of lavender. But it was mentioned in a lot of articles that this is lavender that smells like heavy old lady, makes you kind of sick. Lavender perfume.
- [65:21]
Christine
Oh, so like maybe like really stuffy.
- [65:24]
Em
Yeah.
- [65:25]
Christine
Overly done. Yeah.
- [65:26]
Em
Not good perfume. Sorry, girl. Sorry.
- [65:29]
Christine
Yeah. Wow. Did they have to specify that? But okay.
- [65:32]
Em
Can you imagine if they're interviewing in the house and Fanny's just overhearing this like you.
- [65:37]
Christine
She's just, like, smelling herself. Like, really? Is it that bad?
- [65:40]
Em
It was the 1700s. This was all I had.
- [65:42]
Christine
I was gonna say, but that kind of convinces me more because it's like, well, they probably did smell pretty wild if they were trying to cover up body odor and stuff, you know?
- [65:50]
Em
You know how they smelled? Always crazy.
- [65:52]
Christine
Always. Oh, by the way, I meant to say there are probably people who are like, what is that? Oh, that was just. That was my AIM username in, like, elementary, middle school. I'm always with the Z. Crazy 444. It came out one time and nobody ever let me live it down, so there's that.
- [66:11]
Em
Certainly not me.
- [66:12]
Christine
Certainly not you.
- [66:13]
Em
That was actually part of the America's hearsene shifter lore.
- [66:16]
Christine
That's right. It was part of the lore. Of course. So you all should know that already.
- [66:23]
Em
When did Rice Pudding nine happen?
- [66:25]
Christine
Okay, well, we don't need to go that far. That was a high school edition. That was when I thought I was being, like, quirky. I think maybe middle school, maybe late middle school.
- [66:38]
Em
My middle school one is the one that was my. My most popular, which was Lefty Sponge.
- [66:45]
Christine
Lefty Sponge is good. Lefty Sponge is so good.
- [66:47]
Em
In high school, everyone started changing theirs, and I was like, I guess I have to get a second, second one now because everyone else is doing it.
- [66:53]
Christine
Everyone changed them. Yeah.
- [66:54]
Em
And I changed it to, oh, snap. It's Emmy.
- [66:58]
Christine
It's Emmy. Whoa, who's that?
- [67:01]
Em
In high school, there was an Emmy phase. It was not My decision. It just kind of became a thing.
- [67:06]
Christine
Well, I tried to make a Chrissy Kiwi phase, and it really flopped, so.
- [67:10]
Em
Isn't it funny that when people try to make up their name, it never is? And then when you don't try, people start calling me Emmy? And I was like. Like, when did I announce that for myself?
- [67:20]
Christine
Wow.
- [67:20]
Em
Yeah, like, five years. People called me Emmy.
- [67:23]
Christine
Really? So it actually worked. But you didn't do it on purpose?
- [67:26]
Em
No. Oh, I didn't. I didn't hate it. There were other. There was. I mean, Emily was a very big name back then, so I think it was just a way to be different.
- [67:35]
Christine
An easier way to change. Yeah.
- [67:37]
Em
Never occurred to me to be m. Yeah, well, it did eventually.
- [67:41]
Christine
I was gonna say, never is not the right word.
- [67:45]
Em
What was I gonna say to you? Oh, more about this. Okay. Fanny. She's also said to say her own name. I love that. Instead of saying your name, she's like, I'm Fanny.
- [67:57]
Christine
Also, isn't that. Doesn't that mean, like, your. You who. Your. Your vagina over there?
- [68:04]
Em
I know we've talked about this before. It's interesting how every time I decide to do something Eurocentric in some way, Fanny always shows up as a name.
- [68:13]
Christine
But that's why I'm so surprised, because I'm like, I know it was a name here, us, because people didn't equate the same thing. But I'm surprised about Wales having that name. But I guess maybe it's different anytime there's a.
- [68:22]
Em
Some sort of UK Situation going on. I feel like Fanny has popped up quite a few times.
- [68:26]
Christine
Yeah.
- [68:30]
Em
Yeah. I don't know. But she does say, say her name. Maybe she was trying to be different than the other friends or something.
- [68:37]
Christine
Just like you and Emmy.
- [68:38]
Em
Oh, snap. It's Fanny. Yeah, snap.
- [68:41]
Christine
It's f.
- [68:44]
Em
But social. Whisper her own name to people when they're not asking. If she's around, she'll just say it and leave. I love that she will make people feel like a woman is staring at them. And she likes to cause unexplained temperature drops. Jeff, the innkeeper, says that his favorite thing about her ghostly abilities is that she will often rearrange your stuff when you're sleeping, specifically your jewelry, if you lay it out on the table.
- [69:08]
Christine
Oh.
- [69:10]
Em
He was quoted saying that jewelry is moved, quote, in a childlike manner in a kaleidoscope of rings and earrings.
- [69:19]
Christine
Oh, that's cute. Maybe it's not childlike. Maybe it's just, like, she likes it that way.
- [69:24]
Em
I'm glad you said that, because my first thought was like, the first half felt insulting and the second half felt like a compliment.
- [69:29]
Christine
Exactly. Like, what a strange way to phrase that.
- [69:32]
Em
In a childlike manner, in a kaleidoscope of rings and earrings.
- [69:35]
Christine
I'm like, that sounds awesome.
- [69:37]
Em
Yeah. Couldn't we just say kaleidoscope? So, yeah, speaking of Jeff, the spirits didn't want a new owner, it seems, because when the last person decided to sell and Jeff showed up, activity got worse. Probably because the last person. This is only me talking, by the way. The last person was a woman who owned the place. And I'm sure they were like, why is a man here?
- [69:58]
Christine
Like, get him out, get him out. I feel like any sort of disturbance, though, in the routine can be a struggle for the ghost. I feel like sometimes they're like, oh, come on, we finally figured this out.
- [70:09]
Em
I'm just speaking from experience. Every time a man shows up, I'm like, you gotta get outta here. Yeah, Jeff, he did say that on his first night there. Cause remember, he moved in with his wife.
- [70:20]
Christine
Yes.
- [70:21]
Em
On his first night there, Jeff's wife, her legs kept getting yanked in bed by something. And this is a quote from Jeff. Later on, we learned that relatives of people. Oh, this is so sad. Later we learned that relatives of people who were slow to die during a hanging would. Would yank on their own loved one's legs to end their suffering.
- [70:41]
Christine
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I hadn't even, like, oh, my God. Oh, my God.
- [70:47]
Em
Like, just from, like the. The floor underneath.
- [70:49]
Christine
Oh, my God.
- [70:50]
Em
Like, they would just reach up in the stairwell.
- [70:52]
Christine
What the. What the.
- [70:57]
Em
In lighter news, one time, Jeff and his grandson were the only ones in the building, and his grandson came running out of the bathroom saying, the man in the long dress won't let me in. Jeff has also. Or no, sorry. Not running out of the bathroom. He tried to get into the bathroom and said, the man the long dress won't let me in. Jeff has also seen an apparition here on the porch, which he described as a coachman. A coachman like, character in a tricorn hat.
- [71:25]
Christine
Ooh.
- [71:26]
Em
He also says that the most memorable thing that's happened to him while he's been here is that he watched a guest who was fresh out of the bath, still dripping, hair wet, came flying down the stairs screaming, she's trying to drown me. And then he made. He made a mention of like. I remember in the moment thinking it was odd that she said he. He didn't say he or it just Said she's trying to drown me. So he thinks that she must have seen. She must have seen a woman do it.
- [71:56]
Christine
Right? Yeah.
- [71:57]
Em
Or felt like a woman was doing it, but. Or smelt that whack ass perfume.
- [72:01]
Christine
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lavender nonsense.
- [72:03]
Em
Well, apparently in the tub, this. This woman got yanked under the water and she couldn't come back up for air until the last minute. Another man who was staying here once claimed that he felt, quote, a huge pain in his stomach and started having flashbacks of hanging with his feet kicking back and forth.
- [72:22]
Christine
Whoa.
- [72:25]
Em
He later said this is a quote from him. Again, it wasn't my body, but it felt like me. I could see people's hands all red, full of blood. And I don't know what this part means. I'm so sorry to everybody. I don't. I don't understand the context, but this is a quote from him staying here. I could see people's hands all red, full of blood. Bits were being pulled out of me and I was temporarily possessed, perhaps by a past life. Perhaps I was that spirit.
- [72:53]
Christine
Whoa. I mean, I don't know if this means. Is relevant, but for a time it was. I mean, this was more for public hangings. You know, normal, quote unquote, societally accepted to take pieces of the person hanging. But I don't know that that would.
- [73:14]
Em
Interesting. No, you're right. I don't know. I don't have no idea.
- [73:18]
Christine
Or like, perhaps if. Well, I don't know, the blood is like wild. I don't know if why that would be.
- [73:23]
Em
I don't know either. Maybe that. Maybe he. If he was getting flashbacks, it was like. Of something he did to someone.
- [73:28]
Christine
Oh. Maybe it's like a combination.
- [73:30]
Em
Yeah. I don't know.
- [73:31]
Christine
Bollock. Who knows?
- [73:32]
Em
Sure. People have witnessed the security alarm going off by itself without it ever being said. It just starts freaking out. No, there was actually a YouTube clip I saw of someone saying there and the. It just started going off.
- [73:45]
Christine
I don't like that.
- [73:46]
Em
They're like, what the is going on? They also hear footsteps both near and far. Some people were saying they're like, near and far. Like, I was by myself walking down the hall and I heard something chasing me. People hear roaring in their ears.
- [74:01]
Christine
Oh.
- [74:02]
Em
People hear their own name called out. They hear voices talking. They hear horses outside. They hear people out in the courtyard, which might be from the revolts, and they hear phantom music playing. And I don't know how true this is, but a lot of sources said that the bar actually loses 10 to 15 glasses a week because of how often they're getting thrown about. Employees sometimes keep lights on in all the rooms after closing because they're too scared to look into the rooms when they're dark. Which made me think of that room in your house.
- [74:33]
Christine
Oh, yeah, we don't like that room in the dark. No, no.
- [74:36]
Em
In the guest rooms, people have seen a dark shadow at the foot of the bed, gasket touched. And they see faces and windows. Reflections.
- [74:44]
Christine
Yuck.
- [74:45]
Em
An investigator said that they heard footsteps and banging when they were all alone in the building. They've gotten a lot of EVPs. Doors. I saw this a lot on YouTube, is that doors will open and close on their own, and they're always caught on camera. One investigator said in room one, the camera was knocked over. A male voice can be heard saying, get out. And then while the camera is still facing down, you can hear and see it being moved.
- [75:10]
Christine
Oh, I just got chills.
- [75:12]
Em
People say that the energy absolutely shifts after hours when the end is closed, especially near the bathrooms, which is where the grandson said, oh, that guy won't let me in.
- [75:22]
Christine
And the drowning.
- [75:23]
Em
And the drowning. The bathroom. The bathrooms in the main area are said to give off a horrible energy with a hundred eyes watching you. And one person said that they felt like it was, quote, off limits. Someone else was quoted saying, I found that I just couldn't open the bathroom door. It wasn't locked, and it did budge, but as it opened, as I opened it just a little, I was hit with a blast of freezing cold air. And the door felt as though someone was holding it back. On the other side, one apparition has been seen marching around like a soldier. People with higher spooky sensitivities will always feel the gamut of emotions if they stay here long enough. And they all think it's Fanny that they're feeling. One person said, sometimes you go in there and you could be the happiest person in the world, but come out and feel like crying.
- [76:09]
Christine
Oh, that's sad. I don't like when that happens.
- [76:12]
Em
I would imagine that's the people from the gallows. But people have also said they hear coughing from all parts of the building. And that could either be people hanging and, like, trying to breathe, or it could be Fanny who died of tuberculosis.
- [76:25]
Christine
Oh, right. That makes sense. Yeah.
- [76:27]
Em
People have felt themselves getting dragged out of bed. People have heard noises that have kept them up all night, and then they realize that the sounds are coming from inside their own bathroom in their room.
- [76:40]
Christine
What is with the bathroom?
- [76:42]
Em
I don't know, these bathrooms freak me out. The worst place, by the way. Imagine, like, first of all, that's where you shower. You have to be naked.
- [76:48]
Christine
Naked.
- [76:48]
Em
Imagine if you have the runs and you're just like. Like, you just gotta sit there and hope that every time I'm on the toilet, I'm like, this will be the moment the earthquake happens.
- [76:58]
Christine
Yeah, yeah. Don't. Don't taunt me, universe. Please let me just. Please.
- [77:03]
Em
One thing I thought was interesting was one of the guests was, like, brave enough to go look in the bathroom and see what the sound was that she kept hearing. And her toilet paper roll kept spinning itself all night long without actually unrolling any of the toilet paper. It just kept spinning.
- [77:19]
Christine
Someone needs to learn how to turn it the other way because they're like, why won't it come off?
- [77:24]
Em
I like to think that was like a cat.
- [77:25]
Christine
Like a. I know, like, just playing with it.
- [77:29]
Em
One time, patrons at the bar all watched Money on the Bar move itself from one end of the bar to the other and then throw itself onto the floor. Multiple patrons saw this.
- [77:39]
Christine
That's so weird.
- [77:40]
Em
One guest took their dentures out before going to bed and then found them on the other side of the room.
- [77:46]
Christine
Oh, geez. Well, organizing your jewelry into a beautiful kaleidoscope that includes your dentures now.
- [77:51]
Em
I. I guess so. Which I. You know, if you can only. So you can only move so much jewelry around until something interesting hits the nightstand and you're like, amen, I'm gonna.
- [78:01]
Christine
Spice things up here.
- [78:04]
Em
One thing I thought was really funny was that an investigator from Wales online dot com. He got a room there to investigate one night, and he was looking for Fanny. So he went into one of the rooms and was asking for her, and apparently he said, I switched the lights off and tried to make contact with her, informing her that I was from Walesonline.com. it's like, why would she know what that is?
- [78:26]
Christine
Online dot com. Don't worry. You can trust me.
- [78:30]
Em
I like that. It was probably just like a. Like a reporter's muscle memory of like, oh, I'm from Wales. Online.
- [78:36]
Christine
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like your slow. Your tagline. I informed her. Yeah, that was probably like, not the line. She was probably like, I don't want anything to do with whatever that is.
- [78:45]
Em
Whatever that means. Stop it.
- [78:46]
Christine
Yeah.
- [78:47]
Em
And then the last thing I'm going to say is, of course you've been wondering this whole time, where is the lady in white? Of course there's a lady in white.
- [78:54]
Christine
Apparently not Fanny.
- [78:55]
Em
Not Fanny. In my mind, she's wearing. She's a lady in red, but I don't know why.
- [78:59]
Christine
Yeah, I thought I actually pictured her with red hair weirdly.
- [79:04]
Em
Well, the woods nearby are said to be haunted by a lady in white. Because in the 17 woods.
- [79:10]
Christine
No. Yeah, no, thank you.
- [79:12]
Em
Which I'm not surprised because the woods is also where, like the cemetery where Fanny is buried and a bunch of other.
- [79:17]
Christine
Oh, point. Yeah.
- [79:18]
Em
So of course.
- [79:19]
Christine
And also, like, if it's on the property, like, you'd be walking around out there.
- [79:23]
Em
Well, apparently in the 1700s, a married guy was sleeping with a girl. The wife found out, the wife killed the girl and she was left in the woods. So now people claim to see a lady in white sometimes in the woods, but also sometimes she makes her way into the inn, I guess on a cold day. Oh, and people see a lady in white walking the halls of the inn sometimes. So she is always there. She's like Santa or Jesus. The lady in white is always there.
- [79:49]
Christine
Always watching.
- [79:51]
Em
Always watching. But that is the Scared Inn.
- [79:56]
Christine
Very good one. I that gave me some goose cam with all the like moving dentures and moving stuff.
- [80:04]
Em
I like to think the like, it's like one of those. Those wind up dentures.
- [80:08]
Christine
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention it. They were my. My toy dentures.
- [80:13]
Em
Yeah, I pulled them right out of my gummy mouth because I don't actually need teeth. But I like this. I like the. The dramatic theatrics of it all.
- [80:19]
Christine
Yeah, yeah, yeah. As you can see, it's very dramatic. Wow, Nice story, M. I had never heard of it before.
- [80:27]
Em
I've been on a bit of a health kick right now. I have been trying to care more about protein. I don't know what's going on. My tik to algorithm told me I need to get it together. So that's what's happening.
- [80:37]
Christine
And it knows and it.
- [80:38]
Em
It seems to know. And it knew what my body needed. Now I'm paying more attention to what I'm eating. And one of the best parts about working with Fay Nutrition is that I don't have to do this by myself.
- [80:47]
Christine
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Em
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- [81:13]
Christine
I'm so thankful that they're one of our sponsors and it's it couldn't be easier. I signed up and I had an appointment with someone nearby locally within the appointment was like a few days later. So it it's fast, it's helpful and like you can trust it. Which is the best part. FA they believe expert nutrition counseling should be accessible to everyone. It's so simple to find a dietitian who fits your needs and to instantly check your insurance coverage before signing up. And like we said, the v vast majority of people pay $0 for their sessions.
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Em
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- [81:47]
Christine
Faynutrition.Com drink that's faynutrition.com backslash drink one last time that's fay nutrition.com drink and make sure you use the URL so they know we sent you. Hey, this is a loaded landmine of a question. When did you realize your day to day spending had an impact on your long term financial stability? What was the exact moment? Or was it rather a series of moments that domino style kind of smacked you in the face?
- [82:14]
Em
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Christine
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Em
Get started today@chime.com Drink Chime feels like progress.
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Christine
Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members FDIC Spotney eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs, bank ranking and number of ATMs, according to U.S. news and World Report, 2023 Chime checking account required. All right, everyone, I'm here to bum you out. I have a story, a murder, of course. This is a murder of Sophie Leone. And it's a toughie, so I apologize.
- [83:35]
Em
Super.
- [83:36]
Christine
But here we go. In January of 2016, Sophie Leone. She's from France, so that is how I'm attempting to pronounce her name. Just after her birthday, she moved to London. January of 2016. She had just turned 20 years old. And this would be a huge adjustment from, for her because she was from a small town called Peron, and this is in rural France. And so she had not really been to the big city, let alone moved there. So this was way out of her comfort zone. She wasn't really an adventurous gal growing up. She was actually so shy that her mom said she had to basically like, pull the words out of her to even get her to. To speak up. So she was just a very shy, very gentle young woman. And she was one of three. She had an older sister and a younger brother. And she lived with her mother and stepfather, Catherine and Stefan. Their last name is Devalone. Make sure I got that right. You're killing it, Devalon. I mean, I don't know. Don't. Don't speak too soon. I will find out one way or the other.
- [84:44]
Em
Proud of you for trying.
- [84:45]
Christine
Thank you. So, like I said, Catherine considered her daughter just very meek, you know, gentle, sweet, quiet, sweet and extremely reserved, but, you know, a happy kid. Also. She was especially happy whenever she was around children. There was just something about kids where she could open up with them and be herself, where she felt differently, you know, around peers her own age or around other adults. And for that reason, she studied early education and she decided to make a career out of working with kids. Kids. But finding work locally was proving difficult. So when a friend showed her an ad for a French speaking au pair job in England, she applied.
- [85:32]
Em
Nice.
- [85:33]
Christine
Her mom, Catherine, was a little uncertain about this because of course, Sophie was intelligent and capable, but her mom knew she was also a little bit naive. Not in like a foolish way, but just like a literal way of. She doesn't know much about. About the world because she's new, experienced it. Yeah, exactly.
- [85:50]
Em
Very green.
- [85:51]
Christine
Yes, very green. She'd only been abroad once on a class trip. She'd never even traveled on her own. So moving out was kind of a big step. And especially in another country, right?
- [86:00]
Em
Or another area.
- [86:00]
Christine
Especially another country, because she was also hoping to learn some English when she moved there. So that was another kind of selling point for her. But like you said, also another kind of obstacle. But Sophie reassured her mom that the move was only temporary. She would work as this au pair to build her resume and then come back and have kind of a more bolstered background for childhood education.
- [86:25]
Em
Sure.
- [86:26]
Christine
And a job in that field. And like you said, she would be speaking English, so that would be a marketable skill that she could work on. And so she applied, she got the job, and she moved to London to work for a mother of two named Sabrina kouider.
- [86:43]
Em
Nice.
- [86:44]
Christine
So Sabrina lived in Southfields with her two kids, her childhood friend and off and on again partner, boyfriend. We, Sam Medouni, who went by Medouni. He lived with her technically, but he would sometimes be absent for like months at a time. So it was just like a very kind of ships in the night situation. He would be there for a week and then he's.
- [87:08]
Em
At random.
- [87:09]
Christine
Yeah, at random. So South Fields is an affluent district in London. It's next door to Wimbledon to. To give the Americans maybe some idea. Many of its residents appreciate that it feels like a distinct community separate from London, you know, like its own little village. But of course it's close to London, so I'm sure that's, you know, obviously a big selling point as well. And people in Southfields are known to live sort of a small town, social style. Like, people know each other. More village, like, you know, than the big city.
- [87:40]
Em
Sure.
- [87:41]
Christine
So Michael Kroner, who ran a restaurant there in 2016, described it as a place where you cannot not know. So it seemed a little bit odd to everyone in the neighborhood when Sabrina and Sam moved in and basically had zero interest in anybody else in the neighborhood. They basically kept to themselves. They were like, we don't want to be part of the community, you know, which is whatever do do you. But wherever Sabrina did go, she made quite an impression. She was a fashion designer and people. The number one word that people use to describe her throughout this research was glamorous.
- [88:20]
Em
Oh, okay.
- [88:22]
Christine
So she would show up dressed to impress. She'd actually once been in a celebrity relationship with Mark Walton, who was a founding member of the Irish pop group Boyzone.
- [88:33]
Em
Oh.
- [88:34]
Christine
And so, you know, she knew.
- [88:38]
Em
She knew her a thing or two about a thing or two.
- [88:40]
Christine
She knew a thing or two about a thing or two.
- [88:42]
Em
And so she was, you could say she was always crazy.
- [88:46]
Christine
You could say it. You could say it, but not in my level, because just in the glam faction, Just in the glam factor, maybe. Maybe that's it. So it was actually Mark, this guy that she had dated from Boyzone, a founding member of Boyzone, who secured a spot for Sabrina in South Fields in 2013. It's not like an easy place to move into. Right, right. So when they separated, he paid her the first few months rent to give her time to settle in. And then along came Sam, her childhood friend and now on and off again, partner. And he was more unassuming. He was a financial analyst for a local bank. He wasn't really like the glamorous fashion fashionista like his partner was. He didn't really care about fashion or what he wore. And people just kind of of thought they were an odd match, I guess, because she was such a bold statement everywhere she went, and he was so unassuming, and people just kind of couldn't figure it out. They also, on top of that, didn't seem particularly happy. Like I said, Sam would disappear for long periods of time. But meanwhile, Sabrina, unfortunately, had developed a deep obsession with her ex.
- [90:06]
Em
Oh.
- [90:08]
Christine
So she was obsessed with this ex, a celebrity ex. Right. And she was so obsessed with him that she actually projected it onto him, which I feel like you see sometimes, where it's like she's like, he's ruining my life and he's stalking me, and it's like. Actually, it's the other way around.
- [90:24]
Em
Yeah.
- [90:24]
Christine
You know what I mean? Like, you're almost. You wish. Yeah, you wish. Right? It's sort of like that projection. And so she. She. She apparently made over 20 phone calls to the police to report Mark for harassment and abuse. She claimed he flew helicopters over her house to frighten her. Every time the police were like, they're. None of this is happening. He lives in Los Angeles. Like, this is not real.
- [90:47]
Em
Boy zone.
- [90:48]
Christine
Boy zone? Yeah. Mark Walton.
- [90:52]
Em
Boy Zone. I don't know if I know this guy, but Mark Walton. Oh, I think he's got that face.
- [91:00]
Christine
Where I want the boy boy band kind of like.
- [91:04]
Em
And he's got a face where I'm telling myself I recognize him, but I don't think I do.
- [91:08]
Christine
That's how I felt about it, too, especially with a name like Boy Zone. Like, perfectly vague, but also, like, specific enough, literally, like.
- [91:14]
Em
Yeah, it's like boys to men. Boys in motion.
- [91:17]
Christine
Boys. Backstreet Boys. Yeah. Boys.
- [91:19]
Em
Yeah.
- [91:21]
Christine
So the police repeatedly determined these accusations were false. They even had to actually intervene and demand that she stop posting defamatory content about Mark online. She was posting that he was a pedophile. Like, she was hardcore obsessed with kind of aiming all her troubles onto this man. And typically, she was polite and soft spoken when you first met her. But her neighbors soon learned that she could be very aggressive, very unpredictable. She once caused a scene in a local shop over a disagreement, and she ended up calling the police on a service worker. Like, she was. She could become like, you know, Karen 2.0. Like, boss, ultimate boss Karen, you know, in a heartbeat, causing a scene, creating, like, all sorts of mayhem and bringing the police in. The police would often arrive and then would escort Sabrina outside and explain, like, hey, they did nothing wrong. So she's basically just kind of.
- [92:24]
Em
Of, wow.
- [92:25]
Christine
All over the place.
- [92:26]
Em
Okay.
- [92:27]
Christine
So the neighbors were like, okay, maybe it's a good thing that these two are keeping to themselves and not involving themselves further in the community. But their neighbors were curious. Curious when a young woman showed up and it turned out to be Sophie. So Michael, who I mentioned earlier as the restaurant owner, who said, in this town, you cannot not know a person. He was actually in talks with a couple, Sam and Sabrina, to go into business together. He owned a fish and chips shop. So I don't know what the business they were, like, planning was, but when he visited their home, things seemed normal. He met Sophie, who was a new addition to the family, and he thought she was just sort of like any other nanny in the area. He could say she was excellent with children, but he did notice, like, she was pretty isolated. Like, she seemed lonely. You know, she was. There were a lot of nannies who spent time together and got in love, like groups, meetups, that kind of thing. And they tended to gravitate towards each other, but she seemed to always be riding solo.
- [93:26]
Em
And was that for any reason other than the fact that, like you said earlier, she's just, like, kind of an introvert?
- [93:32]
Christine
Just her being kind of introverted and shy. Yeah, for. At. At first, yeah. So whenever Sophie came to his shop to eat, she was always alone. And meanwhile, you know, the other nannies in the neighborhood would come in groups or they'd come after work or sometimes even with the kids that they nannied. But she always came alone. And Michael could tell oftentimes that she'd been crying, and it became evident she was pretty homesick. She told him that her mom was unwell. And over time, Michael became one of Sophie's only friends. Everyone Sophie knew, she knew through Sabrina and Sam. They were like her only connection to anybody outside the home. Another person she met through Them was Yolanta Gotowska, who said she wanted to learn French. And so. So Sophie was really happy to be able to help with that. And they kind of formed a bond in that way, and Sophie opened up to her new friend. So in 2017, Sophie told Yolanta that she was very homesick and wanted to return to France in the fall. I guess her time abroad had given her new perspective. She had made new, new decisions about where she wanted to go in life and what she wanted to do. And she decided she wanted to go to school to study film. And that's, I don't know, a cool progression to make. And so Yolanda said, go for it. You know, you've got your whole life ahead of you. Friends Sadie and Nancy live nearby Sabrina's apartment. And they didn't know the family well, but they had started to notice Sophie kind of in and out of the house, and they hadn't been introduced or anything. But on September 20, 2017, Sadie's husband was on a walk to a shop down the street when he saw that the neighbors, Sabrina and Sam, were having a bonfire in the backyard.
- [95:19]
Em
Okay.
- [95:20]
Christine
And he saw the fire, and he's like, that looks way too close to the house. And so he just wanted to make sure that this was, like, a contained thing and not just like a free bone fire. So he looked through the gate, and he saw someone adding wood to it. So he thought, whatever. Someone's keeping an eye on it. You know, none of my business business. So he moved on. But another neighbor whose house actually shared the same backyard saw this going on and called 999, the emergency number, and the fire department responded. But then soon police arrived, too. And then soon neighbors were, like, really confused when people in hazmat suits arrived in unmarked vans.
- [96:02]
Em
Oh, boy. Okay.
- [96:04]
Christine
Yes. So police, they all watched, of course, neighbors all watched as police escorted Sam and Sabrina out of the house in handcuffs. They taped the street off, and authorities put up a white tent in the backyard so that you couldn't fly, like a drone or helicopter over to block aerial views. And meanwhile, neighborhood Southfield's residents gathered at the scene and watched police come out of the house carrying a stretcher with what looked like a sheet over a body.
- [96:32]
Em
Yeah, the fire is not a good sign so far. Looks like they were burning evidence before people got there or something.
- [96:38]
Christine
Yeah. Yeah. So exactly. It would be days before the police identified this deceased person. But when people in the neighborhood confirmed that Sam, Sabrina, and her two children were alive, all the neighbors were like, okay, well, that Only leaves that young woman that's been in and out of the house that we don't really know. Like, some people thought of her as like a cousin or maybe a family friend. Like they didn't even know who she was. That's how like, kind of isolated they were. So Michael, her friend at the Chips Fish and Chip shop, learned of Sophie's death. When a reporter approached him and asked if he knew Sophie, he said yes. And the reporter said, did you know she was murdered? And he was so shocked, which, by the way, I feel like that's kind of like.
- [97:18]
Em
And at work too. It's crazy.
- [97:20]
Christine
Tactless. Yeah. And just totally like blindsided him. And he was so shocked he couldn't speak. People started to talk now about who this person was. Sophie Leon, the nanny, who some described as timid, petite and shy. Some people had never even noticed her at all, while others had been worried about her for a while. So Sadie and Nancy, these, these neighbors thought Sophie was a family member, like maybe a cousin or an aunt who, who came to help out with the kids. Kids because of how much time she was spending with the kids. And they said that she worked such long hours and seemed to have such extreme patience, they could not have ever imagined she was an employee of the family and not like a family member who was somehow willing to do all this. Yeah, if they had known, they might have suspected she was being exploited. So Michael and her other friend Yolanta had tried to help Sophie in the months before her death. Death. Yolanta had actually found out that Sabrina and Sam had run out of money and had stopped paying Sophie for being an au pair and stopped paying any of the fees they were supposed to be paying.
- [98:26]
Em
Wow.
- [98:27]
Christine
Yolanta wanted to help, so she offered Sophie part time work. But then when Sabrina found that out, Sabrina's one who introduced Yolanta to Sophie. And Sabrina broke all contact, freaked out, broke all contact with Yolanda.
- [98:41]
Em
It was because she was like getting found out for like not paying or something.
- [98:44]
Christine
Yeah, yeah.
- [98:44]
Em
Okay.
- [98:46]
Christine
One day, Sophie was at Michael's chip shop and she told him Sabrina had beaten her. And he asked why, what happened? And she said something he couldn't totally understand, but something about she dropped some butter.
- [99:00]
Em
Wow. Okay. So we're just like a heated.
- [99:02]
Christine
We're just in a bad.
- [99:04]
Em
She just snaps at anything. Okay.
- [99:05]
Christine
Red flags, red flags. He could see how absolutely miserable Sophie looked. She started to wear like only the same outfit every time he saw her. She didn't bathe or brush her hair. She was looking Skeletal, as if she hadn't eaten in a long time. And every time he gave her food, she would be ravenous and would basically inhale it down. And he wanted to help and he offered to buy her a ticket back to France, but she just kind of detached and disengaged and didn't take him up on it.
- [99:36]
Em
I wonder why. Do we find out why?
- [99:39]
Christine
Yeah, pretty much.
- [99:40]
Em
Okay.
- [99:41]
Christine
So Michael told Sophie he could find her a different job. He even called a friend who said, like, oh, I'll help Sophie. But when Sabrina found this out, she dragged Sophie crying into Michael's shop and screamed at both of them. Basically, the answer to your question is abuse. She was just, Just. Yeah, just being used.
- [100:01]
Em
I know if there was like a. She had a crush on someone or something, like some outside situation. It's just that she was kind of getting trapped.
- [100:07]
Christine
She was just being. Yeah, exploited.
- [100:09]
Em
Okay.
- [100:11]
Christine
So Sabrina found this out that, like, he had looked up another job for her. And so she dragged Sophie to Michael's shop, screamed at both of them, and most of what she said was in French. So Michael didn't even understand the half of it. He thought perhaps the issue had nothing to do with him and maybe, like, he had accidentally aggravated the situation, so he tried to back off. Sophie sent messages to her mom over social media saying she was unhappy and homesick and she needed money for a flight. So her mom deposited the money, but Sabrina called Catherine and said Sophie would not be coming home right away. Because we're really working on our disagreements together and like, we're gonna make this work. Don't worry. And then Catherine asked Sabrina. So Catherine, the mom asked Sabrina the, the. What do you call it? The au pair lady. She. Yeah, the host. The host mom asked her to please encourage Sophie to come home and said like, hey, I think she's really homesick. Like, I know you want to work things out, but can you, can you encourage her to just call me and come home? I put the money in her account. The next phone call Catherine got was from the authorities that her daughter was dead.
- [101:24]
Em
So theoretically, then she was already dead. And the. And Sabrina was pushing it off or.
- [101:31]
Christine
Like, like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. They might know the timeline. It could have, it could have very well been because this was kind of like a drawn out situation.
- [101:42]
Em
So it could have just been like, oh, well, I'm just going to speak on her behalf.
- [101:45]
Christine
It could have been like, you don't get to say what she does or. Yeah, or that's More my gut, I think, because I think the murder happened a little while after that.
- [101:55]
Em
Gotcha. Okay, cool.
- [101:56]
Christine
I'm not 100% on that. So all this goes down basically, like they're figuring out the body they just took out of this house is this young nanny. People are horrified, of course. News breaks that Sophie's murderers had not only killed her, but tried to dispose of her remains in a backyard bonfire. And they were actually cooking chicken on a. On the grill to, like, cover the smell.
- [102:21]
Em
Oh, my God.
- [102:22]
Christine
I know, I know. So it was already impossible for neighbors to even imagine that, like, their neighbors would kill this young woman. Like, how could they understand that? But it was equally impossible to figure out why, like, what the hell was going on here and what nobody knew then and what would eventually come out is that Sabrina had sort of taken her obsession with Mark and, like, placed it onto Sophie. Yeah. Like, shared it with Sophie, because now she decided she had this deluded idea that Sophie was secretly involved with Mark Walton and the two of them were plotting against her.
- [103:03]
Em
This girl is always crazy. 444.
- [103:06]
Christine
I mean, I don't really want to say that, because it's sort of like there's clearly, like, actual mental illness, like.
- [103:12]
Em
A mental health situation. I mean, she's.
- [103:13]
Christine
Yeah.
- [103:15]
Em
So had they ever met Mark and. And Sophie?
- [103:19]
Christine
Yeah, they date. No, not Sophie. No, no, no, no, no. So she's just nanny? No.
- [103:22]
Em
Yeah, she just combined them in her head.
- [103:25]
Christine
She basically, like, there was just a new person in the house, and Sophie got roped into it. It's really.
- [103:32]
Em
I wonder if there was just, like, some sort of, like, dark insecurity about some young girl and just like, oh, maybe that's what Mark wants. I don't know. Like, Yeah, I couldn't even follow that line of logic. Logic?
- [103:43]
Christine
Yeah. I don't think there was really a line of logic. I think, basically her story, the way she perceived the situation is that Sophie had come to work in London as Mark's spy to, like, gather into.
- [103:59]
Em
Whoa.
- [104:00]
Christine
Yeah, it was. It was a lot. She accused Sophie of drugging the family. What? She accused Sophie of sexually abusing the children.
- [104:11]
Em
Whoa. That's okay.
- [104:12]
Christine
And then she claimed it was all by Mark's doing. Like, he was the overseer of all this.
- [104:18]
Em
Like, Mark wasn't telling her what to do or that the two of them were, like, equally in cahoots about this.
- [104:22]
Christine
Like, that he was making the demands and she was just his spy or his lackey or what have you.
- [104:30]
Em
Wow.
- [104:30]
Christine
And these accusations were actually ones that she had hurled at Mark before. You know, remember I said, like, the police had to tell her to stop posting disparities.
- [104:38]
Em
Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [104:40]
Christine
You did say she kind of just like channeled it now at Sophie. And so she not only had posted on Facebook that Mark was a pedophile, she once actually approached this man named Sunil Patel who ran a local newsstand and showed him a photo of Mark on her phone and told Sunil that Mark was an extremely dangerous person who had harmed her and her family. And she even said to this man that her nanny was even involved in this scheme. So she's like telling people randomly, like, she's clearly unwell, you know, and dangerous also. So Sabrina then made false reports to the police about Mark. She also accused him of sexually abusing her cat. She didn't even own a cat that.
- [105:34]
Em
Oh, wow, you're very good at dropping these like, little nuggets. Cuz, like the first part was wild and now you're. And then the second part is like, oh, and the cat didn't even exist. Like that's so it. Okay.
- [105:49]
Christine
Like it's, it's not hard to do when every bullet point is like, more like ridiculous than the last. Yeah.
- [105:56]
Em
Is, did she ever have like, like a history of going to see somebody? Like, was anyone able to like, guess what's happening here?
- [106:05]
Christine
I mean. Yeah, so she, she definitely has some pretty severe mental illness. I'm not sure that we have like a diagnosis or something older diagnoses like from before this event, but we definitely discuss her mental health.
- [106:19]
Em
Okay.
- [106:19]
Christine
Going forward. Yeah. So by the time so all this is going on, she's blaming Sophie for being like, in cahoots with Mark and ruining her life and what have you. You, Meanwhile, Mark is living in the US he doesn't even know about any of this. Okay. Like, he's totally detached. And we find out later during the trial and after the police dig all this up, that the couple leading up to Sophie's death had conducted weeks of what they called interrogations.
- [106:52]
Em
I don't even want to know what I know.
- [106:55]
Christine
And they recorded all of them. Them.
- [106:58]
Em
Okay. Did you watch any of it?
- [107:01]
Christine
I listened to a bit of it, but I, I, I will say it was obviously extremely difficult to listen to. And yeah, just a bit. I couldn't really stomach much more than that. For weeks, Sam and Sabrina had started beating Sophie with objects, including an electrical cord. They had stopped feeding her. They, of course, hurled these accusations about colluding with Mark to harm their family. And like, you know, what's Interesting is that Sam had also gotten involved in this. And from what I've read, or at least what I've learned, oftentimes when you see like a partnership like this, it's the man who's kind of in charge. So it's. It's more unusual to have the woman kind of being the, the head honcho in a scenario like this where. Where it's two against one.
- [107:56]
Em
Well, I also wonder like maybe he was being abused and to just relieve himself of any dealing with a stuff.
- [108:06]
Christine
Maybe. But he was gone for months at a time and didn't seem particularly attached to either.
- [108:11]
Em
You know, my first thought was like, maybe this is like, like he's just. Even though he probably felt bad about it, pushing it off onto someone else because he can't stand it and like he's like almost guilty this. But you're totally right, he wasn't around for a lot of.
- [108:23]
Christine
Yeah, I think, I think this was just, you know, when two people get on some. I don't know if it's folia technically, but just like they both. I mean they share a delusion and I guess that's the definition of foliage.
- [108:37]
Em
I wonder if. Remind me of her name. Not Sabrina, the Sophie. I wonder if she felt like obviously on top of being abused and not being able to leave because of that. I wonder if she felt like if I leave this might happen to the kids or something. Like maybe she was felt obligated to be there for them.
- [108:57]
Christine
That is definitely possible. Yeah, that's totally possible. I don't think we have any way of knowing. Like it's just really horrible because it's sort of like it was a drawn out thing. But then it also happened so fast that it was like, like, you know, people didn't even realize they had such little time to intervene. But the court had to hear Excerpts from over 8 hours of torture that Sabrina and Sam inflicted upon Sophie. And Sophie's mom was in the courtroom. I mean, it's just.
- [109:27]
Em
Oh my God, I can't even imagine.
- [109:29]
Christine
Worst nightmare. Worst nightmare.
- [109:31]
Em
And she. I mean, to know in hindsight. I know you say you don't totally know the timeline, but to know in hindsight that she was calling and saying, can you like bring my kid back? And like, like. And she wasn't able to get a hold of her and was talking on, like talking to the. To Sabrina instead. To know that she was probably in the other room being like tortured.
- [109:50]
Christine
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, it's just horrid. I mean, and When I'm talking about torture, too, it's like they literally waterboarded her, and they demanded she admit her relationship with Mark and her plots against them. And of course, now weeks go by and she's completely broken down by pain, hunger, fear. And she just confesses to these.
- [110:15]
Em
Of course. Yeah.
- [110:16]
Christine
Alleged involvements with Mark, thinking, like, maybe this will be my way out. But unfortunately, it wasn't.
- [110:24]
Em
It's what led to the rest of it. Yeah.
- [110:26]
Christine
It seems to have kind of created an even bigger problem. I mean, there was clearly no easy way out of any of this. The court heard that months earlier, Sabrina had actually been diagnosed with depression and borderline personality disorder. And the media consulted psychology professionals who were not involved in the case, and they speculated upon why Sam participated in Sabrina's witch hunt. Like, you know, were they experiencing a genuine shared delusion, or was he just, like, sure, I'm not. Not opposed to hurting this person. Like, we don't really know. Wild people were definitely speculating left and right as to, like, what could be going on, what kind of mental illness they had or if either one of them had. If one of them did, one of them didn't. In a statement to the couple, Sophie's mother blamed both of them. In the couple. She said, you are equally evil as one another. And, I mean, I can't feel any other way if both of these people caused the death of your child.
- [111:25]
Em
Yeah. Because even if he was just complicit in her doing it, he still didn't stop it, you know?
- [111:33]
Christine
Exactly. He was there contributing, let alone. Yeah. Not stopping it. So because Sophie's remains were badly burned by the time authorities arrived, her exact cause of death couldn't be determined, but they were able to confirm that she had four broken ribs. Ribs.
- [111:49]
Em
Oh, my God.
- [111:50]
Christine
Her sternum was cracked and her jaw was fractured. And they could just obviously tell she had endured extreme violence.
- [111:58]
Em
And you wonder how much of that was caused. Was caused by. Or how much of that was because of the murder or because of the torture.
- [112:06]
Christine
Right. And it. Yeah. Like, which. Which injury was longest? Like, did they happen simultaneously? Different times? I mean, it's horrific to even have to think about out. And of course. Yeah. What a surprise. Sam and Sabrina both say they didn't do it. The other one did. Huh. And both said, oh, I was asleep. And she said, I was asleep while he did it. He said, I was asleep while she did it. And that they claimed that they woke up to. To find the other one has. Had killed Sophie. But here we go. We have a witness who lived in an apartment in the same building, who testified that they heard both Sam and Sabrina at the same time the night Sophie was killed shouting, breathe, breathe.
- [112:49]
Em
Oh, so did they want to. Were they just trying to torture her and not kill her and then when they found out she was dying.
- [112:57]
Christine
Yeah, well, I think they accidentally killed her and realized they.
- [113:00]
Em
Okay.
- [113:00]
Christine
Taken it to is my guess for why they'd be saying breathe. I'm not sure.
- [113:04]
Em
You know, up until this point, I thought that they just got her to admit that she was sleeping with that Mark guy and then that.
- [113:10]
Christine
I think it just kind of helped the torture level, so to speak, you know?
- [113:15]
Em
Gotcha.
- [113:16]
Christine
So the trial went on for 43 days while the court learned just how terribly Sam and Sabrina had treated Sophie, not only in life, but also then in death. They transferred her body from their apartment to the fire in a suitcase. And when a fireman noticed her remains, Sam said, oh, God. I mean, really? So a firefighter noticed the remains, and Sam said, oh, that's just a sheep. The body of a sheep.
- [113:41]
Em
What?
- [113:41]
Christine
Trying to like, claim it was something else?
- [113:44]
Em
Just livestock, don't worry about it.
- [113:45]
Christine
Livestock. Exactly, exactly. That's like so extra upsetting. Sam and Sabrina were basically just as callous about her after death as they were, you know, during life. Sophie's mother, stepfather, and father, whose name is Patrick Leonae, traveled to England for the trial. Neither Sabrina nor Sam would look at Sophie's mother the entire trial. Sophie's parents. So Sophie had an 8 year old brother and he adored her. And they didn't bring him to the trial, you know, for obvious reasons, but apparently he had begged his mom to go because he wanted to tell Sophie's killers that they broke his heart.
- [114:25]
Em
Wow, that's so sad.
- [114:27]
Christine
Boy, that's pretty. Up 30 hours of deliberations, the jury found Sam and Sabrina both guilty of murder. Sabrina began sobbing. Catherine cried too. And both of them, Sabrina, age 35, Sam, age 40, were sentenced to life in prison with the requirement that they each serve a minimum of 30 years. Now we get to the question, of course, of, you know, why didn't she leave? Which kind of is always on the outskirts of question of stories like this, especially like when you rightfully so said, you know, I wonder why when he offered her like a new job and a ticket out of there, like why? You know, and really there was no clear reason other than she was in too deep.
- [115:16]
Em
Just happened.
- [115:16]
Christine
Yeah, like she felt stuck and there was no evidence that she was physically trapped, like locked in or anything like that. She Often left the house. So it was.
- [115:26]
Em
Yeah, but psychological abuse is crazy.
- [115:28]
Christine
Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, it's not so simple, right? It's like, by the time Sophie was killed, it had been months of psychological abuse. And Sabrina and Sam said things like. And I listened to some of this. It's just horrific. They. They told her. I mean, and, you know, you think, too, they're starving her, so she's not even got her right wits about her. And now they're. They're telling her. They're torturing her and telling her, no one will help you if you try to leave. You know, we know you hurt all our children. They said, if you try to contact the authorities, you'll be arrested. They're all out there looking for you. Like, they messed her mind up so much, you know, that she was just completely turned around. And Sam and Sabrina, like, knew that they were able to do this because they left the doors unlocked, you know, and. And whenever somebody else offered her a job, they just cut ties with that person. It's just, like, classic abuse. And it makes you wonder if, like.
- [116:26]
Em
There was another au pair before them, before Sophie, and, like, what happened to them.
- [116:31]
Christine
I don't think there was, because I think we know kind of the history of the family and, like, the ex husband and all that. And because Sam was kind of new in the picture, I think it kind of took the right sort of ingredients, you know, to make this all happen.
- [116:46]
Em
I wonder if Mark, the ex boyfriend, was the first person she did this to or if there's someone else who.
- [116:54]
Christine
Like, yeah, I mean, this is clearly a pattern, right? Like, yeah, yeah, I don't know either. I don't know either. It's a very good point, especially because she dated that guy. And it's like, yeah, you know, so in one recording and the. The last image ever taken of Sophie, you can see how emaciated she is. It's very disturbing. The fact that she ultimately made this false confession to Sam and Sabrina proved just how much they had kind of warped her mind and broken her, you know, through this abuse. And she might have, like, truly believed that she would get in some sort of legal trouble. Like, who knows what they were telling her? Like, oh, we told them this, or we. You know, and, you know, even if she knew she didn't do anything wrong, maybe she believed Sabrina would follow her and, like, do something to her parents, you know, who knows what they threatened her with? Right. And investigators who searched the home also failed to find Sophie's passport. And in that way, they figured oh, okay. It looks like maybe that was withheld from her by Sabrina and Sam. And so even if she was able to kind of get out of there, she couldn't leave the country. She couldn't prove her identity. Like another power move, you know. So Sophie wasn't able. She was trapped. Whether it was physically or. Or psychologically or what have you, all the above. She was forced to sleep at a desk in her room. And on the desk, police found a note that she had written that just said, why me? I need help to stop them. It's just horrible. And. And people who had tried to help or wanted to help, of course, now live with that kind of pain of, what if I'd done something, could I have done something? For example, Michael tearfully regretted not making a report about the situation. He knew she was struggling, and he had tried to help and then thought it only made things worse. So he wanted to back off. He didn't want to, like, cause more trouble for her. You know, he didn't realize, like, quite how far. I guess no one realized quite how far this abuse had gone. Likewise, everyone else in the neighborhood, like, like, found Sabrina and Sam, like, unpleasant and, like, not great neighbors. But they never thought, you know, yeah.
- [119:12]
Em
You'Re not a killer, because torture chamber in there.
- [119:15]
Christine
Exactly. Like, that's just. It's something we don't necessarily think about. And Sophie's mother was interviewed in a documentary I watched, and she. Her advice was to encourage parents to confirm their children's safety whenever they traveled abroad, even if they're adult adults, you know, or your loved ones in general. And if you're, you know, she said, if your child is going to be an au pair, you know, go with them to visit the family first, make sure everything's safe and that you trust everybody.
- [119:45]
Em
Although even then, like, it's. The scary part is they could just put a front on for mom.
- [119:51]
Christine
Exactly. And also, like, that's not always possible. Like, au pairs can't just necessarily pay for their parent to come with them. You know, a lot of people are.
- [119:59]
Em
Au pairs because they're trying to make money, to save up. So they go somewhere, so.
- [120:02]
Christine
And perhaps. Perhaps send money back, you know, to their families. So it's like, you know, of course, that is ideal. And I don't. I'm not disparaging the mother at all. I'm just saying, you know, I think, like, that's just. That is helpful advice. I think just. It's not always possible, especially because, like, a lot of au pairs come from, you know, underprivileged backgrounds. And it's like they are there, like you said, for the opportunity. A lot of times employers even expect au pairs to pay them back for like visa expenses and that kind of thing. And you don't really make much money as an au pair. You're basically getting like room and board and some spending money, that kind of thing. And so it's, it's, it's like you're already kind of in a more vulnerable spot for that reason, right? Like you're depending on these people. You don't know the country, you don't know the culture, the language. And they're your only lifeline to the outside world. So regardless of, you know, economic background or country of origin, of course anyone is vulnerable to moving to a new. When moving to a new country to work for, for strangers. And a lot of times it works out great and things are fine and awesome. But sometimes, unfortunately, people take advantage of this and things go very, very wrong. So. On June 6th of 2018, Sophie's remains were returned to her family. She was buried in France and her family remembers her as an exceptionally kind person who despite being very, very shy, was a friend to everyone, especially children. And according to her aunt, she was a pearl. Kind and gentle. She loved everyone. Yeah, and that's the story.
- [121:42]
Em
It's not even. I mean you obviously don't wish this on anybody, but when it's just like someone who only was just quiet and kept themselves and kind and good experience.
- [121:51]
Christine
She just silently writes, why me? You know, and she would have made such an amazing au pair, you know, and was such an amazing caregiver to the kids. It's like, like, it also makes you.
- [122:00]
Em
Wonder like where the were those kids when like she couldn't watch them because she was busy being tortured, you know, like so now, now that just add negligence to your kids anyway, that's just neither here nor there, I guess.
- [122:16]
Christine
Horrible.
- [122:18]
Em
Yeah, awful.
- [122:20]
Christine
Well, thanks for listening everyone. Sorry I bummed you out. If you would like to come learn more. If you would like to come to Yappy Hour, we will be on Patreon doing. I guess I was going to tell something. What was I going to tell?
- [122:34]
Em
I don't remember.
- [122:35]
Christine
It was something about I'm always crazy444.
- [122:37]
Em
But I don't remember rice ping9.
- [122:39]
Christine
Oh, perhaps. But whatever it is, we'll figure it out and you can come join us there.
- [122:45]
Em
And everyone, I hope everyone has a, a good swig or chew of something yummy to get to get your dopamine back up because mine is low. But thank you, Christine. It's always nice to know that my hormones can balance and imbalance themselves.
- [123:03]
Christine
You're welcome.
- [123:04]
Em
I appreciate it. You're just giving me a reason to go spike my own serotonin and buy myself a fun little treat.
- [123:09]
Christine
So that's what I'm here for.
- [123:10]
Em
And that's why we drink.