E446 Erratic Earthquake Cocktails and Ghostly Gay Icons

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink

Episode 446: Erratic Earthquake Cocktails and Ghostly Gay Icons
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Air Date: August 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and meandering episode, Christine and Em riff on everything from millennial mom fashion and awkward social encounters to the realities of pet parenthood, culminating in their signature blend of supernatural and true crime stories. Em dives into the bizarre cryptid case of Sam the Sandown Clown—a surreal, colorful being that might be a ghost, alien, or something conjured from a child’s wildest imagination. Christine follows up with the tangled real-life tale of the "Phantom of Heilbronn," a mysterious string of crimes across Europe seemingly tied together by one woman’s DNA—until it’s revealed to be a wild forensic error of legendary proportions.

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Major Discussion Segments & Highlights

1. Personal Banter: Fashion & Making Friends

Timestamps: 04:10 - 20:32

• Christine discusses the “uniform” of millennial moms at preschool drop-off, feeling out of place among trendier parents, and embracing authenticity over impressing others.
  • “I would often put a lot of pressure on myself about that kind of thing, and I would say...that kind of thing happens when you're not trying for it to happen, right?...Why not be as authentically myself as possible, even sometimes if it's embarrassing?” (05:51)
• Em shares stories about striking up drive-by compliments with strangers (including a “fluffy-haired” man), contrasting Christine’s social anxiety and dread of unexpected human interaction.
• The two riff on the weirdness and pressure of adult friendships and chance encounters, with Christine lamenting her social limitations and Em extolling the joys of awkward openness.

Memorable Quote:

• Em: “Sometimes I just decide I want to be a friend...If it's weird, you're already walking away. So who cares.” (10:28)

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2. Why Do We Drink This Week?

Timestamps: 20:32 - 39:39

• Christine’s reason: Navigating shifting friendship dynamics as her (and her friends’) lives change, especially now that she has more “mom friends” to share parenting experiences. She also recounts an upsetting recent experience witnessing a car accident without a phone to call for help.
• Em’s reason: The challenges of new pet parenthood and impending visits from family, leading to anxiety about changing routines and the need to constantly accommodate the dog.
• Both reflect on life changes, responsibilities, and how having pets (or kids) fundamentally alters spontaneity.

Notable Quote:

• Em: “Having a dog is more of a headache than not having a dog. That's...That's what they say. I love him, and he's very sweet...but not when I want to do something and he needs to be prioritized. I don't feel like prioritizing him sometimes.” (29:29)

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3. Cocktail Corner and The “Live Earthquake” Moment

Timestamps: 32:50 – 41:55

• Em quizzes Christine about her current favorite cocktails (Negroni, Aperol Spritz), inspired by a family debate over Em’s mother’s drink of choice (Cosmo with orange vodka and Cointreau).
• Mid-cocktail chat, a minor earthquake hits on Em’s end—captured in real-time—creating palpable tension and classic podcast chaos.
  • Em: “Earthquake. Holy— You’re okay, Hank. Okay. For now. We're okay.” (38:01)
• The hosts joke about podcasting through disasters and the surreal experience of broadcasting panic.

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4. Main Paranormal Story: Sam the Sandown Clown

Timestamps: 46:20 – 1:01:03

• Em recounts the peculiar cryptid case from Sandown, Isle of Wight, 1973, where two children encounter an impossibly odd being—“Sam”—described as 7ft tall, with a round oversized head, painted geometric face, three-fingered blue-gloved hands, frilly clothes, and surreal behavior.
  • Sam communicates via a booming microphone and written words, inviting the children into a windowless metal hut and performing strange “magic tricks” for them (like passing berries through his face).
• Discussion of whether this was a real encounter (alien/ghost/cryptid), a figment of children’s imaginations, or the misinterpretation of real events, with plausible references to Dr. Seuss and magic tricks (“all colors Sam”/“Alakazam”).
• Christine expresses genuine distress at the story’s eeriness and the odd compassion it elicits.
  • Christine: “I just believe children. Like, I don't go into it going, oh, it's a bunch of kids. I don't believe it. I'm already freaked out by this.” (58:35)
• They collect possible explanations: a psychic screen memory, a play on Sam-I-Am, or a classic childhood tall tale. The hosts riff on how cryptid and alien encounters often borrow from cultural references and what that says about human fear and creative self-soothing.

Standout Moment:

• Em: “All Color Sam sounds like, if you say it fast, ‘alakazam’...And the weirdest thing that Sam did was a disappearing, reappearing berry, which is a magic trick.” (100:10)

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5. True Crime Spotlight: The Phantom of Heilbronn (“Woman Without a Face”)

Timestamps: 1:04:50 – End

• Christine presents the convoluted mystery: Between 1993 and 2007, a mysterious woman’s DNA appeared at over 40 crime scenes in Germany, Austria, and France—from murders and heroin needles in woods to gemstone heists and burglaries.
• For years, investigators built the legend of a prolific, near-mythic criminal: the “Phantom.”
• The trail ultimately leads to an astounding reveal: the automation of forensic cotton swabs at a factory led to her (a Polish grandmother working on the production line) DNA being present on swabs distributed to police. This costly, years-long wild goose chase exposes flaws in forensic protocols and the dangers of overreliance on “infallible” science.
  • Christine: “It was this little old lady...They were buying these swabs that already had some old lady's DNA on them...Her DNA would occasionally get picked up.” (138:06)
• The case prompted international standards for DNA-free forensic supplies and a recalibration of the way courts and law enforcement regard DNA as evidence.

Quote:

• Christine: “They spent millions of euros...dozens of diverted investigations and man hours spent on chasing a ghost—literal phantom. It was just this little grandma.” (141:00)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Em on drive-by compliments: "If it's weird, you're already walking away. So who cares." (10:32)
• Christine on authenticity: “Why not be as authentically myself as possible, even sometimes if it's embarrassing.” (05:51)
• Christine on the Phantom case: "It was this random lady's DNA showing up at completely unrelated scenes because they bought these swabs from that plant." (139:22)
• Earthquake interruption:
  • Em: "Earthquake. Holy— You're okay, Hank. Okay. For now. We're okay." (38:01)
• Em, on pet parenting: "Having a dog is more of a headache than not." (29:29)
• Christine, on DNA evidence: "Maybe DNA is not like the end all, be all answer...DNA can accidentally end up somewhere." (147:58)

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Episode Mood & Tone

The episode balances classic ATWWD energy—rambling, intimate, occasionally chaotic banter—with genuinely spooky and intriguing storytelling. The hosts frequently break for gentle self-mockery, side tangents on everything from domestic life to fashion to the existential dread of earthquakes and alien abductions, all filtered through their relatable dynamic.

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Key Takeaways

• Sam the Sandown Clown remains one of the weirdest, most ambiguous cryptid/alien tales, exemplifying childhood imagination, 1970s social context, and humanity's need to explain the unexplainable.
• The Phantom of Heilbronn case is a cautionary tale about overconfidence in forensic technology and the ripple effects a simple procedural oversight can have, both in terms of justice and public myth.
• The hosts’ willingness to linger on the comic (and cosmic) absurdities of life is as much the purpose of the show as the stories themselves.
• Real-life oddities—whether they’re earthquake interruptions, pet woes, or DNA scandals—are at least as wild as the ghosts and murderers that populate the show’s stories, and maybe as telling about what haunts us.

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For Further Listening

Stick around for the next Yappy Hour (Patreon) where Christine and Em promise to draft their ideal alien abduction contracts, and more candid, unfiltered nonsense and comfort storytelling from this beloved podcast pair.

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And that’s why we drink!

Transcript

[Em]

Everyone knows that I love a fun little treat. An flt if you will. I like candies, I like cakes, I like cookies. And another thing I love is when cakes and cookies and candies are the theme of a phone game. One of my favorite games right now that I'm playing is called Cookie Jam. This is really one of my favorite games. I thought I would just give it a little test spin since I know to be talking about it and whoopsie. I ended up spending like hours on my phone and now I'm like level 40. Whoops. Cookie Jam is a match three game and you can play for free on your phone or tablet. You can match three cookies and candy to clear the board and solve puzzles and you progress through 11,000. 11,000 unique and challenging levels with new ones added weekly. I really just did not realize how much time I'm about to spend on this game. Yikes. But join me, won't you? Join over 100,000,000 players and put your puzzle skills to the test today, Max. Cakes, cookies and candy. Thousands of puzzles, free daily rewards and adorable pandas. What are you waiting for? Download Cookie Jam now.

[Christine]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much. We're really doing this, huh? Thankfully Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon. Bye bye Truckee. Of course we kept the favor.

[Em]

Hello, other Truckee.

[Christine]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Em]

You know, every day I learn things about Christine. And today I finally heard a fun fact from her. That she's finally wearing a bra. I know.

[Christine]

Can you believe it? It's true.

[Em]

Eight years and and now she's wow. She here she is all supported. And it's because of Honey Love.

[Christine]

Honey Love, we love them. They're an independent female founded brand. All Honey Love products are intelligently designed by women who actually wear them. Okay, that's important. Including Betsy, who founded the company and is highly involved in the development of each product. I find that to be like a huge green flag. Honeylor supportive and wire free. Thank God for that kind of technology. Girlies in STEM have figured it out. We finally find wireless bras. Woohoo. And they have this shapewear. It's really beautiful. I have like kind of the meshy mesh one. It's like really cute for shapewear. Like I feel like you don't know. I don't wear that for you on air. Sorry. I wear that to, like, weddings. Okay. That's about as far as I go, but it's designed to move with you and it's very comfortable. Unlikely. Lot of shapewear I've used in the past, so. Yeah, that's, that's my. I'm not going to take my shirt off today, but maybe next time.

[Em]

Rats. Try treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market. Save 20 off Honey Love at honeylove.com drink. Use our exclusive link to get 20% off honeylove.com drink to find your perfect fit.

[Christine]

After your purchase, they ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Experience a new standard in bras and shapewear with Honey Love.

[Em]

Before we start this episode, we wanted to dedicate it to one of our listeners, Kathy. Her husband Trevor reached out and said that Kathy is going through a hard time right now, and we wanted to let you know that he reached out to us and told us that we're one of the things that brings you a little joy these days. And we're really grateful that we get to be a part of your life. And we're thinking of you.

[Christine]

Yeah. And just so you know, Trevor said that you are the love of his life and just your family loves you. We love you so much. Sounds like you bring a lot of light to a lot of people. I also want to add a little shout out to Wyatt and Holden. Big hugs, big love. Big, big, big love. Big hugs. And to all of you, and this is us sending our love beams your way.

[Em]

Yeah, we, we're thinking of you guys and hope you like the episode.

[Christine]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to. And that's why we drink. Sorry, I want to start talking to. I want to start having an audience. So I'm going to introduce Christine's like.

[Em]

I want to make sure that we don't get this edited out where you're talking about how great I look when.

[Christine]

My style sachets into the room. I've got to get eyeballs on this thing. I've got to get your earballs on this. Listen up. I was talking about my new linen pants. It's a whole thing. Don't worry about it. You'll hear it in an ad. Sorry. But on that note, we're talking about this fish shirt. And I was about to say to em, well, now that I often drop Leona off at preschool, I. It's so strange to be like, amongst millennial moms yeah.

[Em]

What are they wearing? Tell us all. Tell all of us child free people.

[Christine]

One day I went over there and I was wearing, like, bike shorts. And I thought, like, is this, like. I even asked Blaze, like, is this, like, bad to wear to a preschool? And he's like, no, you're fine. It was like, with an actually a Creeps in Crime sweatshirt. And so I was wearing that and I got out of the car and this woman who has like, the same car as me gets out and she has on bike shorts and like a different good for you TV show.

[Em]

And I was like, you're right where you belong. Good for you.

[Christine]

I was very pleased. But then today, I literally wore. I've worn some very strange things. I think that, like, maybe I. I think sometimes. And because I drop her off so sporadically because it's typically Blaze's job and I always look a little confused, I think they probably worry about me, but it's okay, you know, we're all trying our best to get through it.

[Em]

So what if that's like your meet cute for Leona, Best friend's mom.

[Christine]

Here's what I. Here's what I realize. I would often put a lot of pressure on myself about that kind of thing, and I would say, well, you know, like. And then I thought to myself, that kind of thing happens when you're not trying for it to happen, right? And not thinking and trying. So I thought, you know what? Why not be as authentically myself as possible, even sometimes if it's embarrassing. And yes, you're right. Maybe someday I will show up in a shirt covered in coffee and birthday cake creamer and someone else will too, and we'll just bond over that, you know, you never know. Maybe that'll be.

[Em]

I'm just saying if the. If the whole thing is like, oh, when you least expect it, well, what are the odds both of you are just wearing, like, hoodies and bike shorts and not expecting anything, so.

[Christine]

Oh, no, she was whipped. Way cooler than me. She was like, really, like, trendy, Trendy. And I, like, I see. I was like, oh, oh, no. Okay. I. I like. Mine was. I mean, mine was like, cute. At the very least, Creeps in Crime sweatshirt. But it was like, cute. And I had, like, Birkenstocks. But, like, ah, you know, she was like, clearly doing a look. I just had pajamas on.

[Em]

Well, you know, to keep pressure off yourself from finding, like, the one that's going to be best friends with you and best friends with Leona, blah, blah, blah.

[Christine]

All my friends listening to this like, what the fuck?

[Em]

At the very least, you can weed through them and go, I know it's not that one. You know, it's like, that's.

[Christine]

Yeah. With. With what? With what? Like, with. Oh, by saying they're cooler than me.

[Em]

Yeah. At least you can say, like, oh, no pressure on that one being my best. I don't have to do anything today. Like, that one's not gonna be.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I think I've. I've led my whole life that way. Like, oh, that's above my pay grade. I. I will bow to you. You pass. Like, pass on by.

[Em]

Sometimes when I, like, I go out to dinner by myself or, like, I, like, go to, like, the coffee shop or something, and I'm like, oh, it'd be cool if someone, like, walked in and, like, we became immediate friends. And then someone walks in and I can just tell them, like, it's not going to be that person. Okay.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

It's like, some people just look way too cool.

[Christine]

Are you having, like, speed dating in your own mental?

[Em]

Speed date, kind of. Which, like, I feel bad that I'm like, I guess in some way ranking people when they walk through the door because I'm like, oh, I would be friends with them. I think maybe I should go, like, compliment.

[Christine]

You're reading a book by its cover, huh?

[Em]

I am. But there are some people, when you walk, they walk in. You're like, I have to be friends with them. So I guess in that way, you're also reading a book by the.

[Christine]

I don't think I've ever really felt that way. No. Felt like. Well, I've felt like, don't look at anybody. They'll perceive.

[Em]

You know, there are sometimes, like, just now, I was. I was walking Hank, and someone walked by, and I was like, he looks really cool. I feel like. I feel like he's looks really cool, but also, like, not in a way where we wouldn't run in the same circles. And I was like, I'm gonna say something to him. I feel like we would, like, maybe connect. And he had very fluffy hair. So I said, your hair looks really good.

[Christine]

Dog or the person?

[Em]

The person.

[Christine]

Oh, the person.

[Em]

I said, you really. I like your hair. It's very fluffy. And then he went, thank you. That was what I was going for. And I went, well, we are gonna be friends. And then I. We. I decided, don't worry. He didn't know that. But I decided. And so then we walked past each other because I just did, like, the drive by Compliment. I didn't want to overwhelm him. I just said, your hair looks very fluffy today. And then when we, we were doing the loop and I passed him again and I went, your hair still looks fluffy, don't worry. And he went, you hair looks fluffy too. And then we stopped and talked for like 10 minutes. It's lovely.

[Christine]

Whoa. Wow. Meet cute. Indeed.

[Em]

So sometimes I just, I force the narrative and I'm fine with that.

[Christine]

Do you have any idea? I am like, sweating my heart, My pulse is racing.

[Em]

Oh, social anxiety.

[Christine]

Yeah, that just is like, oh, God no. Like, oh, God, no. Don't speak to me ever. Anybody. So, no.

[Em]

I mean, sometimes I just decide I want to be a friend, but sometimes.

[Christine]

If somebody said something nice to me, that's great. I'm not saying, like, don't say something to me. I'm just saying as you. I can't. I'm, I'm. I'm in awe of your band, of your social bandwidth. I think, like, if I'm walking outside, I just hope and pray I don't see a soul to speak to because I'm so tired and I'm so, like.

[Em]

Someone like me walked by and was like, I really dig your fish shirt. That's fucking crazy. I love that.

[Christine]

When you would be very nice. Yeah.

[Em]

And then we walk past each other again and then I go, don't worry, your fish shirt's still looking really cool.

[Christine]

You know, that would be nice. And I feel like if it were like, we clearly had a similar vibe. And that has happened because, like, but it's usually like, people are like, oh, I knew you lived in the area. I listen to your podcast and we go to the same coffee shop kind of thing, you know, so it kind of sets up that meeting.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

But yeah, I guess if I were on like a. I mean, no. And I'm not opposed to people saying hi. I think for me, I just get anxious because I'm like, I think I would overthink that too. Hell, and then, like, make it really weird and then make them think I was, like, hitting on that. I don't know, I. I just, I start spinning out. Like, I don't think. I think it needs to happen more organically where I'm not instigating the scenario because it'll probably go sideways.

[Em]

Yeah. I don't mind being the instigator.

[Christine]

I. Yeah, I know that about you. I do.

[Em]

And also that's why I appreciate the drive by compliment, because if it's weird, you're already walking away. So who Cares.

[Christine]

Fair point. And then you meet each other again in a loop.

[Em]

Yeah. Then it's awkward.

[Christine]

Then you're like, you actually.

[Em]

I can see him walking closer.

[Christine]

No, I've been ruminating on this, and I'm actually really pissed off.

[Em]

I did have to have the confidence to just go up to a random man and go, I really like your hair day. It's very fluffy. Because what if that was what he was not looking for, you know?

[Christine]

But that's what I'm saying. Like, when you're telling me this, my. My pulse is racing. I'm like, you're just going up to people complimenting their hair, but. But, like, complimenting it in a specific way, which is nice. But also like, yeah, what if he's like, oh, I tried to unfriz it all morning. You know? Like, I would. I guess you can usually read the vibe. Like, you're not, like, gonna say that to somebody.

[Em]

I would have also just leaned on the fact, like, I have fluffy hair, and I'd be like, oh, you know, talent sees talent. You know, something like that. Like, I would have made up some, like, stupid joke.

[Christine]

Oh, there's some witty, quirky line, one liner. Yeah. Well, this is why I'm not, like, meant to be in my own Harry Met Sally situation, you know, I'm just meant to, like, drunkenly meet somebody and then, like, text them for a while and be like, I guess we're friends now, you know, or.

[Em]

That's lovely.

[Christine]

And now married also.

[Em]

Yeah, great. See, Everything works out the way it's supposed to.

[Christine]

It's not nice.

[Em]

Anyway, I don't know how we got here, but.

[Christine]

Well, I can tell you why I drink, which is that.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Right? Just to set Sagoo right out of that, when you said, oh, it looks like it's supposed to say segue.

[Em]

I want you to know that by saying, sagoo and me, obviously, I know what's happening.

[Christine]

We never talk about it in more detail, so I thought, I'll never give it a little sprinkle of reminder.

[Em]

Sagu will be the last word that fades from my existence when I die. Besides Won, I still think about that 28 years.

[Christine]

Okay. Because sometimes people are like, what is lemon? Or whatever. And, like, those are easy to find out now on Reddit. But sometimes people ask questions that we don't like.

[Em]

Really?

[Christine]

Like. Like breaking into Wallace, where we talk about it, like, once and then just reference it. But if, in case you'd ever listen to early episodes, you're really missing, Em was reading the word wanton like, he was a wanton man. And M said, what is a wanton man?

[Em]

I thought he sold wons. Thought he was, like, the one man. Like the guy at the wonton cart. You know, how we all wanted to God.

[Christine]

And it was in that same room. I remember. So it must have been the same year. You were, like, on a roll that year, I guess.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And the year of Sigu.

[Em]

I never knew Segway was spelled.

[Christine]

To be fair, you worked. Your earliest attachment to the word was via the branded.

[Em]

Yeah, it was a Segway tour guide. I just thought, o. That's how it starts. I had no idea it was any other way. Wow. I love this game. Humbling M left and right.

[Christine]

No, I'm sorry. I said to goo. And then I went, wait, this is how it all started when you said it six years ago. Like, I don't want it to become Christine, that's not a word. You know?

[Em]

You know what hurts is I'm trying to think of something to, like, banter back with you about something you've done stupid.

[Christine]

And I can't think of anything stupid.

[Em]

Remember when you fell asleep while we were recording an episode?

[Christine]

First of all, you didn't even finish the sentence nor take a breath before you suddenly had the inspiration. Okay. It's easily my favorite angel smiled upon you with that one. Okay. And then also you've ever done. I said the jig or something's up, and you got all.

[Em]

No, you got away with it, because I Now I don't know what the right one is.

[Christine]

Okay, well, then also, I got away with the one that said had a beef or had beef, because then everybody got into an argument. Yeah, I did. Because get away with that.

[Em]

That's. No, you're wrong.

[Christine]

Let's bring that back.

[Em]

Had a beef.

[Christine]

No, it is. Had a. It's both. It's had a beef. You can have a beef with someone.

[Em]

I don't like what you're saying to.

[Christine]

Me, and remember when I said it and I wasn't sure. Now the number of people who have sent us, tagged us. Merriam Webster Dictionary defines.

[Em]

I've magically forgotten everything they ever said to me. It's had beef, and that's it as far as I'm. As far as I know. Like, I can't tolerate the notion of anything else.

[Christine]

Actually, some people just reach their limit of being able to grow and, like, learn.

[Em]

Go back to sleep, Christine.

[Christine]

Okay. Today, Leona said. We were in the car, and I said, do you wanna. She said, I want to listen to Elmo songs. So I was, like, listening to Elmo songs, and then I said, do you want me to turn up the volume? And she said, I'm sleeping. And I said. And I looked around, and she was going like this.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

And I was like, what the fuck? And I started laughing, and she's like, I'm sleeping. This is how I sleep. And I said, that's actually not how you sleep. And she goes, you're right. I sleep with my eyes open.

[Em]

What a psychopath. I'm so sorry. Your kid is going to have a lot to tell you about one day when she can, like, recall what is going on right now.

[Christine]

It's really startling. But she says, I don't. I don't. I don't close my eyes when I sleep. And I'm like, okay, you weirdo. Anyway, I love that for her, but.

[Em]

Also, like, I don't want to sleep over in a room next to her because I think she would. Like, I'd find her standing in the corner smiling at night.

[Christine]

Well, the thing is that I watch her on the camera, and she's literally sleeping with her eyes closed in a peaceful position. Like, it's not like, oh, I'm sitting here in fear, wondering if she'll wander.

[Em]

Like, she's not sitting upright and staring blankly at the wall.

[Christine]

No, because, like, I usually am the one doing things like that. And so I would notice if I glanced over and she and I were both, you know, simultaneously. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying so far, she's been pretty chill, so I don't know what the deal is, but I think it's her way to avoid dream. Like, dream. She always says she doesn't dream and she doesn't sleep. She sleeps with her eyes open. It's like, the weirdest thing.

[Em]

I wonder if she's scared of dreams.

[Christine]

I think she's avoidant. I think she's avoiding it because she doesn't want to talk about it, which is kind of how I was as a kid. And I always thought it was because something happened, but now I'm like, maybe it's just she has a similar, like, scared, like.

[Em]

Or maybe she just can't understand why she's in other places and you're not there or something, you know?

[Christine]

I know, but usually she's so imaginative and, like, wants to pretend we're on cat earn and, like, you know, has all these, like, like, crazy ideas and wants to be other people and, you know, so I'm like, it's Just when it comes to that, she's so adamant that I'm like, interesting.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

So I'm wondering if that'll some day turn into something, but. Oh, I was. I'm sorry. I. That was such a sidebar. I just meant to say that the reason I drink. Going off of what we were talking about with, like, making friends is that two of my close friends here in Cincinnati, Liz and Izzy, have both told me they are expecting little girls. The. To be born the week of Leona's birthday.

[Em]

Precious.

[Christine]

And they're gonna be, of course, four years younger. But I'm like, oh, my God. Leo's gonna be their babysitter.

[Em]

That'll at least be, like, nice for her to, like, interact with babies. How often does she do that?

[Christine]

And now I have mom friends. I had a few. Now I'm just. The numbers are growing.

[Em]

I know.

[Christine]

Parent friends. I'll say, because I don't have many parent friends. A lot of them are blazes friends. Even the women. A lot of them are blazes friends. And so for me, it's like. I feel like parent friends are hard to come by in your natural circle if you. If you are of a group of people that aren't, like, in that space yet. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. My friends just aren't there. So my friends just happen to not be parents. But it's happening slowly. Slowly.

[Em]

As you make more friends like you, I. I make less friends. Like, there's. Oh, that's.

[Christine]

These are old friends. They're becoming more like me. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Liz is my brother's friend from high school. Like, we've been close for. For years, and she got married, and now she's having a little baby.

[Em]

Well, I was gonna say, I was just having this conversation with one of my other child free friends where we were saying, like, does it feel like everyone's a parent all of a sudden? Like, I don't know what happened, but in. In my perspective of everything, like, it's funny how your perspective is like, oh, like, everyone's right away having kids. In my mind, I'm like, where are the child free people? Like, everyone all of a sudden has children. I think it's because everyone from my childhood now I think there's only, like, two left in my friend group that don't.

[Christine]

Everyone from my high school, I feel like, ended up having kids. But it's a lot of people that. Well, not even that, actually. No, a lot. I mean, your friends are like, your friends My friends are like, you, my brother, Eva, Renee. Like, all these people are not even in a space where they would consider having a child. Right. So it's like my very close inner circle is just comprised, mostly, even within my family, of people who. And my sister and all that. But. Yeah, so that's got to be nice.

[Em]

Though, that you can finally talk about that stuff with someone who's.

[Christine]

Something where I was never gonna, like, pressure them to ask or want, you know, like, if they told me, fine. But I wasn't sure if they ever were, you know, interested in having kids, so I was very excited. I just. And, like, I love a little October. You know, I love my little October baby.

[Em]

I know. I do, too. But, no, that's got to be nice to now have someone to, like, talk to about the stuff that, like, won't. Just, like, you could, like, talk to me about it, but I don't get it, you know?

[Christine]

No. Yeah, well. And I think part of it, too, I feel. I feel excited that I can be of any sort of help because my friend Izzy is in the same boat as me where she says none of my. She's, like, in a band. She's very, like, rock and roll. And she's like, none of my. She's like, I am. She says her sister has kids, but, like, that's. She's totally out of her element, which is kind of how I was. And I feel like I had to rely on the Internet, which was terrifying, and then my mother, which was even more terrifying. But then. So now to be able to be like, oh, hey, yeah, there's this weird thing. Or like, oh, don't worry. That's just something. Or explain, you know, things that happened or tell my story. I don't know. It just feels helpful to have somebody to connect with and, like, share. Share tips and help and. And know, you know, what they need and feel like I can be there for them.

[Em]

Yeah, no, that's awesome.

[Christine]

It's an exciting feeling. But I said that only because you were saying, oh, meeting friends. And I'm like, finally, my. I'm. I have some friends that will have kids, so at least I can have quote, unquote, those mom friends built. And even if daycare drop off doesn't go quite as planned, even if everyone at daycare is cooler than that's.

[Em]

I very happy for you. That's got to be nice to just have people in your circle that, like, are more aligned with whatever you're.

[Christine]

You're doing. You know, I'm used to being the One in all the friend groups who's like, shit, I can't, I can't do that night. We, we don't have a babysit, you know, like, I'm the one usually who's like, kind of that way. So, yeah, it's kind of nice to feel the pressures off a little bit.

[Em]

Yeah, totally.

[Christine]

I'm not the only one with the. Yeah.

[Em]

Although expect, like you said a lot of calls of people being like, what do I do?

[Christine]

So, yeah, I've gotten some texts. Text. And I'm like, listen, I'm all about a voice memo. I'll voice memo you all day.

[Em]

Nice. Nice.

[Christine]

All day.

[Em]

Not all night. Because I'm sleeping.

[Christine]

Because everyone's having babies. Sorry.

[Em]

Why do I drink, man? I don't know. I, I don't know why. Why I drank.

[Christine]

I guess I, I, I gave about 82 reasons. If you want to pick any of them. Well, I'm sure even some of the happy ones were probably reasons to drink for you.

[Em]

I was going to, I was going to say that my mom is coming into town next week, and so did I know that.

[Christine]

Oh, yes, I did know that.

[Em]

Maybe, I don't know.

[Christine]

Fun.

[Em]

So she's coming into town, which I'm excited that she'll be here, but this will be my first time kind of going in and out multiple times and like, being more spontaneous, like with this fucking guy over here with the four.

[Christine]

Legs with the four letter word that shall not be named.

[Em]

I'm nervous. Nervous about, like, breaking his routine and, like, what he's gonna do, especially since he's, like, in his, like, destructive, like, self. Separation anxiety space. Yeah. So I'm, I'm kind of panicking about just like, having a plan ahead, which I've never had to do before because I'm used to waking up whenever I want and then leaving and not coming back if I don't want to.

[Christine]

Wow. So I'm so glad some of my friends are having kids because, man, I know.

[Em]

We'll see. That's why if I, I know, I know you are totally fine to hear me complain about this stuff, but I'm also, like, wildly aware that I'm just learning how to handle a dog and you're like a lot of these living creatures.

[Christine]

No, no, no, I don't mean like that. But it's kind of like, it's a funny thing to watch people. Because now you're like, oh, now I have this dog. And I'm like, oh, I remember. I know. First step, the slippery slope of bringing in Living creatures. Yeah. Yep.

[Em]

I. No, I just. I don't like having to adjust fun. I don't like doing it and so.

[Christine]

Having to adjust fun. Is that what you said?

[Em]

You know what I mean? Like, I just want to be able to, like, get up and go, but now I'm, like, thinking, like, this is the first time that my mom's gonna be here where I might have to, like, be that person who's like, I have to go home and walk the dog in the middle of the day, you know, Like.

[Christine]

But is she the type who can just, like, hang out or, like, she.

[Em]

Will, but I still, like, just want to, like, not have to worry about that. And, like, I don't want to, like, her to, like, she'll be accommodating, but, like, I don't even want her to have to deal with being accommodating. I just want to, like, go out and do stuff with her and not just to worry about someone else. I'm sure Tom is. Will also be on his way over.

[Christine]

They on his way. He's just like, a hitch a ride. There's Tommy Bahama. Yeah, I can see it.

[Em]

They're quite a package deal. So I pretty much really are.

[Christine]

Like, you never really know if they're there, but they always appear. All of a sudden, it's like, assume.

[Em]

Wherever my mom is, he is just shows up.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

No, so I, like, there are things, like, I want to take the. I. I just. It always irritated me as someone who didn't have a dog and didn't get it. Like, the people who would say, like, oh, I have to leave early to go walk my dog. Like, I. It would always, like, because I didn't have a dog. I didn't understand, like, the. Like, I knew you have to go, like, take care of a dog, but I was like, man, like, doesn't that get annoying? Like, how are you saying that's, like, so.

[Christine]

Like, it's so normalized, way out of plans. Em. A lot of times people say it. No, it's true. But it's also like, oh, good. Like, you know, it's been a. Now I have an easy way to say, okay, bye, everybody.

[Em]

Yeah, no, I. I mean, I get that now. But I also. I also know if I was hanging out with somebody, I was like, let's go to lunch and a movie. And they're like, oh, if I add up the hours, that's like, a lot of time. Like, things like that. And I was always like, man, like, I feel like I. I have to, like, accommodate this, like, whole dog that doesn't even mind to hang out with me.

[Christine]

I get that. Yeah, it's a huge adjustment. It's a huge adjustment.

[Em]

So now that I'm in that I have especially.

[Christine]

I mean, I'm lucky because Blaze usually handles the pets. Like, I don't even think about it. So I'm thinking now, like, you're right. Like, well, and especially if you're the. Are you hosting? You're just hosting alone, right? Like, because Al's not back yet. So, like, then, yeah, then you're responsible now for house guests.

[Em]

And it's also like, when my. When they're in town, like, I want to do as much. I want to pack in as much as I can with them. But now I have to, like, there's gonna be so many times we're like, well, let's schedule it so that way we're closer to home at a certain time so I can walk him and it will be as efficient and quick as possible so we can get back out and keep. Keep doing things. And it just, it becomes like a little bit of an ordeal versus, like, oh, let's end up in Santa Monica all day long. And it's like, now, well, my dog has to pee. Like, it's just like. I think it's just very annoying to.

[Christine]

Get used to sting because I think some. Maybe this is true for other people too. But definitely, I think for me, I think maybe I built the life around what. I think we all do, but try to build a life around what we're comfortable with. Like, I would never want to end up all day in Santa. I don't like the whimsy and spontaneity of that. Like, I would be like, I would like a two hour window. And I know I get to go home afterward. I'm just such an introvert. I, like, I can't just be out all day for. I mean, I could in high school, like, when I was just wandering and had, like, no responsibilities. But I think nowadays I'm like, I need to go home and, like, refill my batteries. So I think, like, the dog thing was an adjustment for sure. Especially when it came to, like, if I had, like, a day job. But also, I think it was also, like, it just fit my routine.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So that's different, I think, right? Like, yours is a much more. Maybe a just. And I'm sure there was a lot of disruption. Like, you know, with travel, it's so much harder. And Blaze and I couldn't just, like, drive north for an hour and, like, stay there to do, like, antiquing all day. Like, stuff like that. I feel is. Is different, but, yeah, like, your, Your comfort level is much more kind of go, go, go.

[Em]

And, yeah, this is why I didn't want a dog. Like, especially, like, that's why we waited for so long to spell that out.

[Christine]

He can hear you.

[Em]

No, he's, He'll. He. He knows.

[Christine]

Called emotional trauma.

[Em]

I mean, I, I, I did want a dog, but the. And I'm. I'm happy I have him now. And I'm obviously gonna make it work. But I was.

[Christine]

Obviously.

[Em]

I am. I'm not gonna, like, bitch him, but.

[Christine]

Like, we're in counseling. We're gonna make it work.

[Em]

But, like, I held off for so long because I was at least acutely aware of the shift in my lifestyle. And, like, and I didn't want to do that. So this is just one of those, like, puppy blues situations where I'm like, I'm happy you're here, but, man, I really would rather just go to Santa Monica.

[Christine]

Does WAG not work or, like, rover walks?

[Em]

I mean, I, I mean, I'm gonna probably find somebody. Like, I'll. I'll find a solution to it where I'm accommodating as best as possible, because.

[Christine]

People, like, who go out for work all day are gone, like, you know, 10 hour, eight, 10 hours.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And just do walk or find somebody. I mean, get. I mean, when Allison gets home, I figure it'll probably be like, oh, this is so much easier.

[Em]

I'll just hand her the dog and go, my turn. I'm gonna be gone for several months. No.

[Christine]

When does that start? When does the trade. When does the changing of the guard happen?

[Em]

It was August, and now I think it's October.

[Christine]

October?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Why?

[Em]

It just keeps getting extended. I mean, it's not her fault. It just. Just keeps happening.

[Christine]

Where? Is she just gonna stay there? Go somewhere else?

[Em]

No, she's still there.

[Christine]

Okay. She might as well check.

[Em]

That's a fair question. She could be, like, in Portugal with the baby.

[Christine]

Sometimes you and I find out the same day that she's going to the Amazon rainforest. And I go, sure.

[Em]

And some people might think that's, like, weird, but I really, I love that about her. I just. Not when all of a sudden I have to watch this stupid.

[Christine]

I don't. Because suddenly she comes back and goes, wow, I almost died 16 times in the Amazon. And I said, I would have told you that.

[Em]

It's shocking what she is capable of doing. And so moves in silence.

[Christine]

With the two, but now she's just, like, with babies.

[Em]

Yeah, she's been with the baby since April. Yeah.

[Christine]

And so she's. She wants to stay with the. Oh, they love each other.

[Em]

They do love each other.

[Christine]

Well, remember when you were like, where are all the child for people now? Allison's like, actually, I would rather be with this baby.

[Em]

Even my own girlfriend is with a baby right now.

[Christine]

Yikes.

[Em]

No, they. They seem be getting along. There's some delay with, like, the daycare or something, so Allison's just gonna stay and keep.

[Christine]

Oh, I see. Because that does make. Yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, I, I. I know I, like, constantly. I'm like, poo pooing on this dog. But the whole point of. And that's why I drink is where we come here and, like, vent the worst of ourselves. So that's me.

[Christine]

We're venting the worst of ourselves.

[Em]

I promise. I do love him. It's just like, if you're asking why I drink this week, it's because he's a headache, and he's constantly a headache, because having a dog is more of a headache than not having a dog. So that's.

[Christine]

That's what they say.

[Em]

I love him, and he's very sweet, and we get along just fine, but not when I want to go do something and he needs to be prioritized. I don't feel like prioritizing him sometimes. Whoops.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. You'd be so perfect on Teen mom, though. You know when they're like, I feel.

[Em]

Like a teen mom. I just got this stupid baby. My deadbeat baby daddy left.

[Christine]

Literally. You're like. You're like, put. Put him in a laundry basket and be like, hank, mom, can you take care of this baby? I want to go to the club.

[Em]

I would. I would love to put Hank in a laundry basket and make him somebody else's problem.

[Christine]

Before I made these abrupt lifestyle changes, I was like, I gotta be somewhere where some lady, my mother, will just show up if I need her to. Like, I was not about to have a baby.

[Em]

And no, it totally makes sense. I totally get it.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

And this is a dog. Like, I'm aware they're apples and oranges, but, like, just a dog. I'm like, I would have. I should have moved to Virginia so my mom could watch him all the time.

[Christine]

I mean, maybe she'll move in now.

[Em]

I think that's what's happening. She's gonna be like, so Allison's gone until October, you say, huh? She picks her shoes off.

[Christine]

Actually, now she knows. Oh, boy. And Tom's like, well, we're a package deal. And he unpacks his Tommy Bahama duffel bag.

[Em]

Yeah, no, I.

[Christine]

Wait, I need a drink. I'm so sorry. I'm having one of those weeks where I'm like. I'm pretty sure that. Okay, I saw a car crash yesterday in front of me, and I had to call 91 1, and, like, it happened at, like, 8:30 in the morning. And then I, like, went to therapy and I forgot to mention it. And then, like, I kind of mentioned, like, oh, I also saw this guy almost died today.

[Em]

And, like, everyone's alive.

[Christine]

Yeah. He was, like, taken away and on a stretcher, but he was moving.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

There was not as. But, like, he. It was. It was so scary because the car hit the. Hit the concrete. Just out of nowhere, like, swerved hit the concrete. I don't know if he passed out or something. And then instead of hitting the brake, like, the brake lights weren't going on, so I knew. So it just kept, like, smashing over.

[Em]

And over and over.

[Christine]

And I just saw this guy, like, kind of had, like, a heart attack.

[Em]

While driving or something.

[Christine]

He was fine. He was, like, up and talking, so I don't think he was unconscious. He was not unconscious when they. When they came, but I was in my car. And guess what? M. I had left my phone at home for the first time.

[Em]

Girl.

[Christine]

Ever since dropping Leona off at preschool. I'd left my phone.

[Em]

Oh, Christine.

[Christine]

And I didn't know what to do, but I have this emergency thing, and I. I thank God. I mean, otherwise I would have had to flag somebody over because I was the only one who stopped. And then so the. I hit the button, and thank God somebody actually answered because, I don't know.

[Em]

It always feels like a scam. I'm like, no one's gonna answer that thing.

[Christine]

I'm like, are they gonna charge me 400 for that? I don't know.

[Em]

It does feel like going on the Internet on an older on stuff.

[Christine]

Yes, it does.

[Em]

Where?

[Christine]

The web.

[Em]

The world.

[Christine]

And you're like, hang up before the World Wide Web, like, completes its spin. Yeah. Anyway, point being, I've had a very dysregulating few days, and I think, like, I have really struggled to ground myself. And so sometimes I just shout, I need a drink. And it's probably not appropriate, but, hey, we're on. And that'. Drink right now.

[Em]

It's absolutely appropriate right now.

[Christine]

Sometimes I need a drink to feel less manic. I don't. That doesn't make sense, but I get that it is a depressant. I guess. So do you have.

[Em]

I've been asking everybody this depression.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Em]

Well, girl, I didn't have to ask that. I was gonna say I've been asking everyone at the dog park. What is your.

[Christine]

You've been asking everyone you meet, apparently, because you're just striking up fluffy hair.

[Em]

Mr. Fluffy Hair is getting this question tomorrow. I'll tell you that.

[Christine]

This feels like Mr. Glitter Shoes.

[Em]

Mr. Glitt Shoes. What is your favorite mocktail these days? I feel like our cocktail these days. Sorry, me, I was like, before anyone.

[Christine]

Starts commenting, I am not pregnant. What are my favorite cocktails? Oh, I'm still. I listen. I'm a die hard Negroni fan. I love a Negroni, but I also love an Aperol Spritz. I'm in. I'm into a Spritz. Aperol Spritz. Yeah. Why do you ask?

[Em]

Well, I asked because the last time my mom was in town, she went to the bathroom and it was just me, Allison, and Tom. And somehow we started placing bets on what my mom's favorite drink is because we all thought it was a different thing.

[Christine]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Em]

Because I remember, I mean, I obviously know her the longest out of any of them. And I was like, she had a really weird Cosmo phase for a while back.

[Christine]

Oh, that's the most Linda drink I've ever heard of. Because my stepmother also loves a Cosmo. And then she occasionally an Appletini, but Cosmo is like, it.

[Em]

It. And then I said something else, which is the one I bet it currently was. I think it was. I bet it was some like a rum and Coke or something because she used to drink that all the time when I was younger. And then Tom, first of all, they need to get divorced because his guest was like whiskey or something. I was like, what the hell?

[Christine]

But he's such a. Like, he's like such an off. What do you call it? Like a. He just like shows up and you're like, what are you doing here? I was like, why did you saying this for? He said whiskey nonsense sense.

[Em]

And I was like, I know you're wrong. Like that one.

[Christine]

Kidding me.

[Em]

But he was so confident about it. And so I was like, okay, let's all place bet. So Allison guessed Cosmo, I guess the rum and coke. And he guessed whiskey, and he didn't win. Surprise. But when she came back from the bathroom, you're like, what's your favorite cocktail? If you get one last cocktail and.

[Christine]

She'S like, you're all arguing. Yeah, about her.

[Em]

You know, she loves her ego. Had to be sky high. Yes.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

As soon as she left, we were all fighting.

[Christine]

She actually left to go pee just so you had a moment to talk about her. Yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, Cosmo's her answer. But then, ever since then, I was asked, I've been asking everyone, like, like, I, maybe I don't know this baby.

[Christine]

But what's your favorite stepmom? Well, I mean, I always think of my. My stepmom and your mom. Very similar. April 4th is my stepmom's birthday. Yours is April 2nd, right?

[Em]

Second.

[Christine]

Second, sorry. Second and fourth. They're both these intense, loud Aries who drink a lot. And Cosmo is where. It's where Capris drink cosmos, like the whole nine yards. They really do kind of have a lot in common. So it doesn't surprise me.

[Em]

I wrote it down. So in case you would like to have yourself a Linda later, since you apparently need a drink, drink a Cosmo with orange vodka and contro instead of triple sec.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. I thought for a moment I was going to be so, so afraid because I remember the last time she visited and you mentioned that Allison had to kind of remark on the, the, the. The nature of the beverages Linda was making for everybody as bartender. And apparently there was Splenda in one of the cocktails.

[Em]

Yeah, that was sugar. That was.

[Christine]

I. I really run a high risk of. Of.

[Em]

That was a Tom move.

[Christine]

That was a Tom. He is. What is the word? He's so erratic. He's just coming at us from any angle. He's like, whiskey, but let's put Splenda in it. That's what Michael Scott does in the office. Like, what are we doing?

[Em]

We. We met up with my parents. They were in California. So we drove over to them and they wanted to go have a campfire and, like, bring drinks out. And Tom was like, oh, I'm making a whole batch. And then, then Alice took us over and went, this has like Sweet and Low or something in it, like split stevia. Stevia. And she was like, I, why would you put this in a drink? But I guess they love it. He drank it up. He loves it.

[Christine]

Like, if you're on like a sugar free diet for, like, medical reasons especially, or for. If you like that, fine. I'm, like, allergic to that. It closes my throat up. But also, to me, it tastes vile. So I don't. I think I know a lot of people, like, prefer Diet Coke, etc. To me, like, like, all vile.

[Em]

But Allison took it like a champ. But I remember her making a face and going, I was not aware. Had I known stevia would be an ingredient, I would have passed, so.

[Christine]

Oh, my word. And whatever.

[Em]

She. She. The whole point was that she was drinking whiskey with my parents, and she did it so good for her.

[Christine]

And your mom was drinking whiskey, her favorite drink.

[Em]

That's why. That must be why. Maybe he drinks a lot of whiskey.

[Christine]

When they pour sweet and low in it, she's like, now I like it. It's like a Diet Coke. Now I like it.

[Em]

Maybe.

[Christine]

Maybe she does like a Diet Coke, right?

[Em]

Do you. She does. She actually, I think Diet Coke girl. She was like a. One of those, like, Diet Coke.

[Christine]

So was my stepmother. People with a straw, I'm telling you, don't get it in their teeth. Oh, my God.

[Em]

Back when there was Diet Coke with lemon and Diet Coke with lime, that was.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Em]

The situation.

[Christine]

Same difference.

[Em]

Do you know what my cocktail would be if I drank?

[Christine]

Yes, a Miami Vice.

[Em]

Fun. Yes, you're right.

[Christine]

Okay, you know what?

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

I just. I am like, tato. Do you know who tato is?

[Em]

Earthquake. Holy. You're okay, Hank. Okay. For now. We're okay.

[Christine]

I knew something was afoot.

[Em]

I think we're okay. It was just.

[Christine]

I felt the seismological shift. Hank, are you okay? Is he freaking out?

[Em]

He's okay.

[Christine]

Every time your laptop moves now, I'm like, is it half after?

[Em]

Sorry. I was holding on to the table because I was, like, getting ready.

[Christine]

Emma, are you okay? Is everybody okay?

[Em]

We're fine. Well, I'm more nervous because it's, like, probably part of that, like, Hawaii tsunami.

[Christine]

Okay, well, that's why I, like, literally stopped breathing.

[Em]

And I just watched a video about, like, the big one, like, baby coming, like, today, and I was like.

[Christine]

I watched those every day of my life. And I've been trying to tell you people, all of you, get out of there, man. Not all of you. Some of you can stay. Some of you get. Gotta get out of there. Come on.

[Em]

Sorry. What did you say about Miami Vices? I'm. I totally.

[Christine]

So I was saying that I'm a German detective named Tatoit.

[Em]

I was like, please, God, bring an earthquake. Get me out of here.

[Christine]

No. God was like, oh, babe, I'm way ahead of you. Here we go. Here comes a tsunami. Sorry. Anyway, I remembered it was a Miami Vice, but I didn't remember until this moment.

[Em]

It.

[Christine]

Because recently at a. At a Beach to Sandy show, I ordered a Miami Vice, and I went, why do I Know whose drink is this? And I could not. I was like, it's.

[Em]

Is it?

[Christine]

And I couldn't really put it together. And just now you asked, and I went, all. All the pieces. Oh, that's French. All the pieces. I don't know how to do it. All the pieces, they're all connecting. The puzzle pieces fit together. I know that your favorite drink would be a Miami Vice, but I was confused because I'm like, m doesn't drink. But then I get it now. It was.

[Em]

It would be for a Miami Vice. I sure would.

[Christine]

It was delicious. It was tasty.

[Em]

Thank you. I'm glad you had one for me.

[Christine]

Because I highly alcoholic. Good. Highly good. Remember, Can I go get a drink.

[Em]

Now for 50 minutes? Yeah, you should go get a drink, because we haven't started.

[Christine]

So upset about the earthquake. You know, I am so concerned.

[Em]

I like how I said earthquake like Hank was gonna save my life after I just talk about him for 20 minutes.

[Christine]

No, you said earthquake like the time you said, we're at mile marker 1 41. Like, you literally handled it in the way that I behave, like, where I go silent because I'm like, brain activate. You know, like, nervous system shut down. Brain activate. Right? It's like this whole, like, okay, problem solved. And you literally said, earthquake. And I went, oh, my God. And then we were just completely silent.

[Em]

As if all of the future listeners hearing this would solve it for me. Yeah, Just announced it.

[Christine]

Oh, my Christ.

[Em]

That have been crazy. If that was my last word, though, and everyone witnessed my death, huh? Go get a drink.

[Christine]

Nobody would have witnessed it except me, m. And the police or somebody.

[Em]

Jack would have edited it tastefully. It would have been fun.

[Christine]

I would have been so traumatized. We probably would have even saved the footage. And everyone would have had to just listen to me talk about it for the rest of my life.

[Em]

The rubble would have fallen down on me. And then you'd hear us talk about your quince linen pants like an.

[Christine]

Do I have an audience yet? I want to talk about my fashion sense.

[Em]

Just the last thing you hear is me going 10% off at promo code.

[Christine]

Yeah, Hank, run for your life. Save yourself. Anyway, it's not a joke. I'm really worried about this fucking earthquake thing.

[Em]

I looked it up. It was a 4.3. Apparently.

[Christine]

I need a drink.

[Em]

Okay. See ya.

[Christine]

Breaking hello. Thank you for making the sound effect so I can tell my breaking news story. I made hellofresh last night, and it says pecan encrusted chicken and with honey Dijon sauce. I I have to tell you Emethe, it was so delightful that Blaze and Leona were on the way home and I set their plates out and then I ate mine at the kitchen counter and they walked in and it was was mine was gone and I had to sit there and watch Blazey his but it was so delicious and really easy to make and I felt like a true chef.

[Em]

Hellofresh makes it easier to fit quick home cooked meals into your schedule every week by curating delicious recipes right to your door like sun dried tomato grilled cheese sandos as well as over a hundred seasonal snacks sides treats. I really haven't had anything from hello Fresh Fresh that isn't isn't delicious.

[Christine]

Make your summer enjoyable and delicious by signing up for [e-mail] Drink 10fm and get 10 free meals with a free item for life.

[Em]

That's HelloFresh.com Drink 10fm for 10 free meals and a free item in every box. HelloFresh.com Drink 10fm one per box with an active subscription.

[Christine]

Free meals are applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan.

[Em]

Christine have there ever been times in your life where you needed to feel better? Better?

[Christine]

No. I'm riding a high that nobody could ever take down. No, that's not true. I am always seeking more peace of mind. M thank you for asking.

[Em]

I am constantly under stress discomfort and I always eat a little relaxation. I'm constantly sleepless. I felt like a damsel in distress and then, and then cornbread came along.

[Christine]

So I know what you're thinking. Well, everyone loves cornbread. Well, everyone's gonna love this cornbread too because it's actually Cornbread Hemps CBD gummies. They are made to help you feel better whether it's stress discomfor just needing a little relaxation. I the other day was feeling really silly because it was late and I couldn't sleep. My insomnia kicked in and I thought what should I do? And I remembered of course on my sink there I have my CBD gummies from Cornbread Hemp and I took one. I read a few pages of the most boring book I could find in my bookshelf and I was out like a light.

[Em]

Cornbread Hemps CBD Gummies are formulated to help relieve all of the listed as above issues and all products are third party lab tested and USDA organic to ensure safety and purity so you don't have to worry about what's going in your system. Just know you're gonna feel a okay Afterwards feel go.

[Christine]

You kind of feel okay right now. And that's why we drink. Listeners can save 30% on their first order. Just head to cornbreadhemp.com drink and use code DRINK at checkout.

[Em]

That's cornbreadhemp.com Drink and use code DRINK. Christine, I found a. First of all, how was your pee? Was it lovely?

[Christine]

I wasn't getting. I wasn't peeing. I was getting my much drink.

[Em]

I had to pee. That's what happened there.

[Christine]

Oh, did you pee?

[Em]

No. I'm gonna hold it.

[Christine]

I was like, you didn't leave. I was gone for five seconds. Did you pee in your pants?

[Em]

I thought. I thought about.

[Christine]

If you said yes, I was gonna go. Oh, dear.

[Em]

Oh, my. Oh, no.

[Christine]

Paper towels.

[Em]

No. I'm gonna save it for intermission.

[Christine]

Okay. That'll be your reward. Okay.

[Em]

I fear that that is what's happening.

[Christine]

I'm aware as I said it. I said I shouldn't joke too close to the sun.

[Em]

Yeah. That was a really personal thing for you to make fun of.

[Christine]

A little too far, and I do apologize. I cannot believe we've been here now hour.

[Em]

Isn't that silly? And we started an hour later. Tell your family I'm sorry, but you're with me for the day.

[Christine]

Bye. Bye. I live here now.

[Em]

Okay. I think you're gonna like this one because it's really weird. And while I was doing the notes, I was like, this is silly.

[Christine]

Can I tell you the one I brought today is one of the weirdest ones I've ever done.

[Em]

In a bad way, though.

[Christine]

No. And. Well, like a interesting way. I mean, it's crime, but it's a really interesting case. And also, I'm very intrigued because I wonder. Well, for me, it was because we were recording a lot of episodes pretty close together, so I was like, I'm gonna do my own research on something separately while Social works on, like, other. Other upcoming topics. So I went kind of rogue on my own weird tangent. Rogue? I went rogue? Yeah. Is that what you did?

[Em]

I feel like every weekend for me is a little rogue.

[Christine]

That's true. I was gonna say. I don't even know what to begin to expect when you say, this is a weird one.

[Em]

Usually when I go rogue, it's like a 101 concept or a cryptic.

[Christine]

You. You, like, find something by accident on the Internet and. Yeah.

[Em]

And that's what happened here.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. Got it. So.

[Em]

Yeah, this is an odd one. So I encourage your banter. I'm very glad you're drinking. So. So this is.

[Christine]

Hey, can I say something? I am too beautiful.

[Em]

This is called. It's a cryptid. Sam the Sandown Clown. Or he's also known as Sam of all colors.

[Christine]

I know Sam the Sandown Clown.

[Em]

How? How do you know him? Guess he's just handy. I don't know. No, you met him. Are you.

[Christine]

Yeah, he's a close personal friend.

[Em]

Are you the little girl in this story?

[Christine]

We dated back in. No. Now, Astonishing legends, of course, they always beat you, too. And I'm sorry. They ruined everything. They did it in, like, 20. 20, like, four years ago. I. And I almost. Actually, they. I think they did it like 10 years ago. And I didn't listen to it for many years because I was like, that sounds so up. But I was like, that sounds dumb. Like, that sounds made up.

[Em]

It does sound.

[Christine]

And then I listened to it and I remember being intrigued. I barely remember a single thing.

[Em]

Even if you're lying, I appreciate it.

[Christine]

No, they reference it quite a lot, and all I remember is thinking it sounded like it.

[Em]

Yeah, a lot of the articles I read had, like, a pun at the end about.

[Christine]

Oh, okay, okay. So that was basically. But that's basically the only kind of connection I remember at all. Like, I don't. I still don't think. I don't think I've really paid attention. I think that was one of the episodes I was like, I don't want to listen. Like, I don't really. I'm not that interested in it. I think I realized during it, like, oh, this is a lot weirder than I thought it was going to be.

[Em]

The backtracking is crazy. But my confidence is up now that I have. You're. You're implying a fresh slate. That is your brain.

[Christine]

I. Well, because I. I. Yeah, it's sort of that. That excitement of. I know that one. But, like, don't ask me to speak on it. You know what I mean?

[Em]

That's how I feel about a few cases I'm waiting for you to cover. I know nothing about them, but I know that it will be fascinating.

[Christine]

It's not like a Duggar's situation, I promise. Okay.

[Em]

Like, you're right.

[Christine]

Right, right, right.

[Em]

This. Okay, Well, I had never heard of this fella. And as I was reading it, I was like, what the fuck is going on?

[Christine]

I know him. I scream into the microphone like a really, really, really insane person.

[Em]

He's very. This is an odd one. And this is mainly for silly purposes. If you were hoping to get scared this week by my story, that's not really going to happen. You're just going to sit back and enjoy.

[Christine]

Some people are very scared of clowns. And we've already said the word clown a few times.

[Em]

Cloud. Okay.

[Christine]

And also stay for my story. At least, because it is. It's another weird one, actually. If you're here after an hour of that nonsense, then, like, I can't imagine you're going anywhere no matter what, because you're kind of locked in unless you're.

[Em]

Duct taped to a chair right now. And we're all that you have to entertain yourself with. I don't know why you're here, but I love you.

[Christine]

Super. We're trying our best. And also, if you are all the way here.

[Em]

What was I gonna say? That you have a tour called beach you Sandy that everyone should go see.

[Christine]

No, no, no, no, no. If you're. If you listen, an hour in, I was gonna say a funny joke. I forget it.

[Em]

Oh, well, in another world it landed and everyone's laughing.

[Christine]

That's probably why I was like, so rattled from all the applause I got in that other timeline.

[Em]

You know, sometimes I do really mean, like, things like that in my head where I'm like, in another world that fucking kills. You know? Know.

[Christine]

Yeah, I mean, really, it just like really does make you feel better.

[Em]

It does. I'm like, that person's having a great date. Not me. But maybe them not me.

[Christine]

Must be nice.

[Em]

But then there are other days where I'm having a great day and I'm like, oh, I feel bad for the other knees and other worlds. They're like, not having as good of a day.

[Christine]

I know. I'm like, I came out on top, huh?

[Em]

I know. Okay, so here's Sam the Sand down clown. There's a fly that wants to get in my goddamn eyeball.

[Christine]

Actually almost asked if there was a fly because I saw a. A black shape dart across the screen. And I thought, oh, my God, a ghost.

[Em]

Even Hank, we keep. Him and I are looking at each other like, do you see this thing?

[Christine]

Do you know that Geo, out of all the animals in my house, two cats, one dog. He is almost 100 kill rate on these bug on flies.

[Em]

I wish he were here because right.

[Christine]

Now I'm just strapped in ceilings. And like, he will literally just wait and like, he will eat them. He will just jump up and eat them and the cats.

[Em]

That was Hank trying to get.

[Christine]

Maybe he's gonna be good at it. Like Geo.

[Em]

He never is. And also he. He won't eat them. He catch and releases.

[Christine]

What?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Okay. Gio literally will just like be like a snack. And you know how he's so. Oh, I've just figured it out. He's so devoted to food that to him it's like, that's a treat.

[Em]

Eat. He'll, I mean, dismember it and then let it suffer, but he won't eat it. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

That's cool.

[Em]

Like his favorite thing. He loves to eat lizards, but like only the tail part that falls off. Gross.

[Christine]

See? But you can't catch a lizard. He did catch a bird once. Okay. Anyway, I'm sorry.

[Em]

Two days ago he caught a butterfly in his mouth. And then I. I know. And I was like, get it out of your mouth. And I could see the wings flapping in his mouth. And then he just went. Went and opened his mouth. And the butter movie. Yeah, it's. I hate. I just commit at this point anyway.

[Christine]

The anxiety that would have given me. I. I'm a. I had such a fear of butterflies growing up because people would always say the oil in your fingers can kill them and they'll never fly again. And I was like, way too sensitive.

[Em]

To hear that shit butterflies.

[Christine]

So then I would just sit there and go, like. But now I've grown to really love them and appreciate them. And I've gotten actually in recent weeks, like, seen them everywhere.

[Em]

Oh, oh, not me.

[Christine]

You know, I'm glad they're over there. Just in life. I feel like they've become part of my kind of current journey. But not yours.

[Em]

I can't stand them. I don't want him to eat them. But I also can't stand certainly. Okay, let's try this again. In 1973, the. We're in the Isle of White and we're in a beach town there called Sandown.

[Christine]

I'm in my linen pants.

[Em]

You're in your linen pants as on the cabana drinking a martini.

[Christine]

Drinking. Drinking. Miami Vice. Right.

[Em]

And so vacationing here on this little beach is a 7 year old girl named Faye. I don't know if her name's actually Faye. That's the name that we have given her though.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

There is also a boy around the same age as seven. We don't know his name. Would you like to give him a name?

[Christine]

I would love to. Johnny.

[Em]

That of all the names.

[Christine]

Because I was thinking Faye, and I was like, what goes well with Faye? Because Faye is such a, like, unique name. Okay, fine, I'll try.

[Em]

So you picked Mr. Americana. Johnny. Literally Johnny Appleseed.

[Christine]

No wonder I like you. This is how My mom would respond when I was three and she said, pick a name. And I said that. And she goes, really? That's what you fake Sigmund Freud just.

[Em]

Resurrected and died again? Hearing you say, no wonder you like that.

[Christine]

That was me. I. I literally gave him some life. For a moment there, I channel.

[Em]

I thought you were going to like Branch. You pick Leota for your daughter. You don't pick Johnny.

[Christine]

I mean, for some reason sometimes like a classic name just hits. Okay, fine. How about Fay and Fanny? Is that better?

[Em]

You know what?

[Christine]

I fan Fatima.

[Em]

What's the. What's your. The guy that to toughen to talk. Excuse me, The German guy. You are.

[Christine]

Call me. Oh, I'm. Okay, fine. How about Wolfgang? Is that better?

[Em]

Okay, Johnny at this point.

[Christine]

Okay, so I told you it would be the best one. You had to circle all the way through.

[Em]

There's Faye and Johnny. They're both around seven and they're on the Isle of White, hanging out together, vacationing. And while wandering around as you do, the two of them hear this wailing siren sound similar to an ambulance. They say, okay, and it won't stop. It's just the most annoying sound on earth.

[Christine]

Similar to an ambulance. Right? Like it's not like, oh, we heard an ambulance siren. It's like weird. Something that's sort of like an.

[Em]

A hundred percent, 100%. So they're just hearing it. It won't stop. They're by themselves. So I don't know if they could look around and see other people's take on this, but to them it's loud and annoying and they don't know what to do. They're. They go looking for this. Sounds like, where the hell is this? So we can unplug this thing. And the kids are looking. They travel for quite some time. They actually apparently travel over an entire golf course. They go through a marsh, they go through some hedges, they find themselves on a bridge and the sound won't stop. Imagine walking a whole ass golf course and the sound won't stop. I would have lost my literal mind at some point by then. You.

[Christine]

This is the exact moment when you want to be able to say, say, hey, I gotta go let my dog outside.

[Em]

That's the. You're right.

[Christine]

You have a good time. I actually have other plans right now.

[Em]

Speaking of which, think of all of the dogs howling at this thing. If they're.

[Christine]

Oh, that must be annoying. But what if they can't hear that? Hear it. What year was this again?

[Em]

Sorry, 73.

[Christine]

Okay, okay.

[Em]

So the sound won't end. And the kids are looking for it. They get to this bridge and. And the first thing they see, they look over the bridge be like, oh, what's. What's that all about? They see a hand under the bridge. It is attached to a body. But the first thing they see is this person's hand.

[Christine]

Bad part to. I mean, worse parts exist to see, but bad part.

[Em]

Well, this hand had three fingers and were in. Was in a bright blue glove.

[Christine]

Way worse. Way worse. Worst thing to see.

[Em]

So it looked like three fingers.

[Christine]

Like Mickey Mouse.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Em]

Wait, I can do that better.

[Christine]

No, it was actually way too good the first time. And I don't want to hear anymore.

[Em]

Thank you.

[Christine]

Too close, Too close.

[Em]

So it's three big old fingers and in a big bright glove. Bright blue glove. And the hand come. They see that. So that makes them look even closer. Like, what the hell is down there? And surely enough, someone walks out from under the bridge. And they are watching him. He's standing by the water, he's holding this book. And this guy seems super clumsy and.

[Christine]

He has this glow. Does he have gloves on? Both hands.

[Em]

They both. Both three fingered hands with blue gloves.

[Christine]

And he's holding a book.

[Em]

He's holding a book.

[Christine]

What the.

[Em]

And he seems very clumsy is the best way to put it. He's holding this book. He's standing by the water. Eventually he accidentally drops the book in the water water. And the kids now watch him like trying to wade into the water and splashing around. Trying to.

[Christine]

So he's like the Three Stooges?

[Em]

Kind of. Yes. Hang on. Can you hear him?

[Christine]

Every now and then I'm gonna see what he's doing.

[Em]

I'm sorry. Because he's out of sorts. Sorry about that.

[Christine]

No, you're gonna. Good.

[Em]

So he drops the book in the water. He's waiting around. Like you said, like the Three Stooges.

[Christine]

Oh, I thought you meant Hank. He did what now? I was like, who gave him a book?

[Em]

Sorry, can't even imagine.

[Christine]

I gotta get back. Back in. Back on. Okay, here we go.

[Em]

So he's splashing around. He finally grabs his book. He looks obviously, like a little flustered, probably embarrassed if he knows that somebody's watching.

[Christine]

I remember not a millisecond of this. And it's really, actually freaking me out already. Like, I'm already a little bit freaked out.

[Em]

This is really okay.

[Christine]

It's weird and scary.

[Em]

Welcome.

[Christine]

I guess I just believe children. Like, I don't. I don't go into it going, oh, it's a Bunch of kids. I don't believe it. I just, like, I'm already freaked out by this.

[Em]

Okay, well, I want you to pretend Leona's telling you the story, and then let's see where you stand at the end of this. Okay.

[Christine]

And then he had big Blue. Pink. No, but if she came home and was, like, genuinely afraid, I'd be like. Like something was up. Like, I don't know.

[Em]

You hear?

[Christine]

Okay, we'll get into it. I'm so sorry. Go ahead, go ahead.

[Em]

So he gets out of the water with his book, and he runs off. Probably embarrassed I would also run off.

[Christine]

See that?

[Em]

I don't know yet. But he runs off toward his house. They realize there's a hut nearby made of metal with no windows.

[Christine]

Club.

[Em]

Yeah. Oh, boy. So stop.

[Christine]

Okay, stop. Sorry. That was a really aggressive tone. I don't even use that with Leona. Wow. M. That's reserved for you, that tone.

[Em]

Thank you.

[Christine]

Cut it out.

[Em]

Finally, something just for me. So he runs off to his Mouseketeer club, and.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[Em]

It's made of metal with no windows. So Mickey's got a secret.

[Christine]

It's made of metal with no windows. Cool. Okay. Spaceship. Got it.

[Em]

So, P.S. when he ran away with his book, it might have been because he was, like, soggy from the water, but he ran in a really weird way. Oh, no. And the kids described him like a rabbit because his knees would hop up in the air every time he ran. So.

[Christine]

That's horrible. That's like. That's like. That's like Spring Heel Jack.

[Em]

Yeah. Yeah. The kids were like, what the did we just see? And they start wandering away.

[Christine]

And then.

[Em]

They all of a sudden hear the figure come back out of the hut. And now he. They turn around, they see him, and he's carrying some kind of microphone. He's a podcaster.

[Christine]

He's what?

[Em]

He's a podcast. He's about to say, oh, no. Hello.

[Christine]

I didn't think this could get any scarier. My God.

[Em]

So moments later, they see him with his microphone. They're like, okay, let's get out of here. They start walking away. The siren sound comes back, and they realize, I think that the sound was this microphone.

[Christine]

I don't like this.

[Em]

They freak out, and they start running away to get away from this microphone sound. The creature must have seen this happening and realized that the sound was freaking the kids out. And he turns the siren off. And then the creature lifts up the microphone to its mouth. Mouth. After the kids were starting to run away, and when he talks into the microphone, it sounds as if he's right next to them, even though he's quite a distance away. Bye.

[Christine]

Bye.

[Em]

And they hear him say, hello, are you still there?

[Christine]

I don't think so. And I also don't like that you said, oh, this isn't a scary one. Because I really am really actually freaked out.

[Em]

Well, the kids actually thought he sounded pretty friendly. Like he was like, are you still there there? After he got. After they got scared, which I can imagine. I like, scare a stray cat. And then I'm like, are you still there? Where are you? I think that's the vibe they're getting.

[Christine]

Okay. I mean, listen, if that's okay.

[Em]

They realized it was trying to talk to them. They said it sounded friendly enough that they didn't feel as scared. They did walk back to the being stranger. Danger is not a concept here.

[Christine]

Not yet it hasn't. 80s hasn't hit. Hit satanic panic.

[Em]

Exactly Right. This is the 70s where even if it's dark, when they got close enough to this being, they noticed how weird he looked.

[Christine]

They didn't notice with the three finger. Okay, well, to be fair, that will be that.

[Em]

That will be the least of your concerns in a second.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

I will try my best to describe this to you, but then I will be sending you a picture because it's a lot to handle.

[Christine]

I genuinely do not recall what the. You're about to tell me. And I'm. I'm getting anxious already.

[Em]

So 7ft tall. Let's start there.

[Christine]

No big wrong.

[Em]

Big ass, round head. Like basketball head. And it's definitely bigger than the rest of its body. And no neck.

[Christine]

Like proportion wise, you mean? Yeah, it's not like bigger than the body.

[Em]

No, it's like that head should be on a bigger body.

[Christine]

Got it, got it, got it.

[Em]

No neck to hold this big ass head. It's just plopped on the body, apparently. Reddish brown hair. Okay.

[Christine]

I love that they added hair. Whoever they is. I don't know.

[Em]

Nothing on his face moved, including his lips. Nothing moved.

[Christine]

That's.

[Em]

That's just the Botox cabana mom. That's at the beach time.

[Christine]

I mean. Yeah, it feels like a mask or.

[Em]

Like a. Yeah, yeah, might be a mask. Or when I say there's nothing on his face, I mean the features are painted on like a. Like a mask. Or like maybe this thing is like a robot or something. Like it's just a. Ew.

[Christine]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Em]

It's a flat surface and its features were painted on like a cloud brown. Okay, so the Eyes were blue triangles. The nose was a brown square. The mouth was a yellow oval. And its skin was pale white and looked paper thin.

[Christine]

This makes me want to throw up. Like, this feels. I know that these kids are like comforted or whatever, but like, I think there's a reason this is like such a scary, like. I don't know, man. I don't know. Send me the picture.

[Em]

I'm not done yet.

[Christine]

Oh, I was already hoping that was it.

[Em]

This thing, like I said, had three fingers on each of its hands, which were in blue gloves. This guy's dogs are out. Bare feet also three toed on each foot.

[Christine]

And no gloves, no gloves, no socks.

[Em]

Just raw dogging it on the grass. If his toes weren't out for the world to see, I would have actually probably described his entire body to you as like entirely made of wood. But he seemed to because his limbs apparently looked like wooden slats. And on his ankles, wrists and head there were wooden antenna. So I would have thought his whole body was wood. But he's got like human white, naked, had three toed feet.

[Christine]

So they, they said like the feet.

[Em]

Were just feet, just normal feet, but three toes each.

[Christine]

So they got, so they got the feet right. And then they were like.

[Em]

And the rest was a tree. Yeah.

[Christine]

And then they like outsourced the rest of the project and it just went.

[Em]

To like, literally, the arms is a tree. The arms look like planks of wood. The legs look like planks of wood. There's wooden antenna, which I would imagine are branches coming out of this whole thing.

[Christine]

What the.

[Em]

And then his outfit is. Oh, I'm sorry.

[Christine]

Okay. His outfit. Yeah, sorry.

[Em]

Ripped up. It's ripped up. Frilly white pants. What Pointy yellow hat. And the hat is somehow connected to his shirt, which is green and red.

[Christine]

This is like out of a children's nightmare. I mean, it feels like, but I don't like this.

[Em]

Well, between the outfit and the makeup all over the face, and I'm saying makeup, like the shapes on his face that are different colors and shapes.

[Christine]

Paint it, paint it on.

[Em]

Paint it on. Between that and the outfit being a bunch of frilly, bright colors, it's this. That's why this guy is often described as at least part clown.

[Christine]

Yeah, I mean, makes sense.

[Em]

The sources that I read described him as a cross between a clown, a robot and an alien. So I'm going to send you, you two pictures now. One is like an artist rendering and the, the black and white one is what was actually written. It was actually drawn for a case Report. Like a UFO case report.

[Christine]

Oh, okay.

[Em]

It's weird. There's a lot of Etsy things about him because he's so weird. So if you want to go get some stuff with him on it, go to Etsy.

[Christine]

Oh, my Lord in heaven.

[Em]

Yeah, it's so.

[Christine]

Okay, I see this one. Let me go to the other one.

[Em]

One.

[Christine]

Ooh. Okay. The one for the UFO report is really scaring me. Like, it. Because was like they were trying to get every aspect of it as accurately as the kids described it. And it looks absolutely bonker. Like, it looks. It looks like a. Like a creepy clown. You know, the scarecrow. Like a scarecrow clown person.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah. It looks like a. Like an anime. Like a. Like a rough draft of an anime cartoon or like someone from Meow Wolf. Like it feels like some artist.

[Christine]

Yes, it does feel kind of meow. Like this sort of weird fantasy sci fi kind of esque, like.

[Em]

Yeah, retro.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's weird. The microphone and like. So it was a microphone, right? They.

[Em]

Microphone.

[Christine]

They knew it was a microphone. They weren't like, oh, it was something similar to like, they knew it was.

[Em]

They knew it was a microphone and they said it was just a. It just made a really loud siren sound, which honestly makes me think of like, remember when we were kids and they had like those like, microphones attached to like a radio or like a tape cassette, like a toy, so, like, you could talk into it and there'd be a speaker.

[Christine]

Do you think that I don't own.

[Em]

A million of those.

[Christine]

Yeah, at least two of those things. Maggie. Maggie, our manager sent my daughter microphones and a speaker, and I went, you are out of your damn mind.

[Em]

She said, I'm trying to get my next client.

[Christine]

Yeah, forget it.

[Em]

So it seems like it might have been that and in the 70s that might have existed as a toy for kids too, so.

[Christine]

Sure. No, that makes sense. Oh, so it's almost like, oh, look, he, here I am. Maybe. But it also feels like it had magic powers, quote unquote, in that it. Or like supernatural powers in that it could like throw your voice or like.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah, maybe.

[Christine]

I always feel like with these things, they're masking, like. Oh, they masked it as like maybe a toy, a kid's toy microphone or something.

[Em]

Thing, maybe. Yeah.

[Christine]

Instead of some other tool. I don't know. I'm. I'm kind of going off the rails. Sorry, go ahead.

[Em]

No, no, no. Well, despite this being like the craziest looking thing in the whole world, this being does seem incredibly friendly and incredibly Shy. I mean, it also, like, that's all it takes.

[Christine]

Oh. Suddenly I'm like.

[Em]

I feel bad for scenes locked in. Yeah.

[Christine]

And I have an emotional attachment.

[Em]

I mean, also you, now that you're all, like, connected to it in a Pixar kind of way. Imagine watching him, like, clumsily, like, trying, like, dropping his book in the river and then getting embarrassed and running away.

[Christine]

Well, that. I know. It feels so, like, human, you know?

[Em]

Well, he puts the microphone down and he grabs the book that fell in the water, and he tries to write out some words so he can communicate with them.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh, he dropped his journal. What a bozo.

[Em]

Which also makes me think, can he not not. I'm confused why he needed the microphone to speak, but then he needed to write something down. But then later in the story, he does talk to them, so he's just trying all avenues here.

[Christine]

Okay, but can I say one thing that kind of struck me as odd earlier when you said that his sentence was, are you still there? To me, that was a weird thing to say in that context. And my first thought. I don't know. This isn't. This is just me completely riffing. But my first thought was, that feels like something you. You would, like, copy and paste as, like, you remember on those, like, phone. Remember those websites where you could, like, prank call somebody and have Napoleon dynamite say certain phrases?

[Em]

Yes.

[Christine]

Like, I feel like, are you still there? Is, like, such a phrase that you could almost record and project. So I'm. I'm always wondering if the, like, are you still there? Was part of this microphone thing.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Maybe not him.

[Em]

Like, it was a. Like it was a preset on.

[Christine]

Or it was something like he was preset to say, but he couldn't get more specific or. I don't know. I know that's a little off the wall, but all of this is a.

[Em]

Little off the wall, so, I mean, there's no wrong guess, you know, Like.

[Christine]

Right, right, right.

[Em]

That does feel like something that is very. I mean, out of everything else. That's totally.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. We're kind of out. Out of logic territory here.

[Em]

So he writes something down in the book, and apparently he wrote the words not in sequential order, and he had to point at each word that he wanted them to read in order. And when he pointed them out and the kids read it out loud, what he had written was, hello, I am all colors. Sam. Now, what I think he meant was he was trying to be like. Like they're little kids. And he was trying not to scare Them. And he said, like, look at all. Look at all my colors because I'm like a yellow hat and a red and green shirt. Like, I could see me going up to Leona if I was wearing a bunch of colors and going, oh, I'm all the colors, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah. Well, what did other people think it meant? Because that's what I think it means.

[Em]

People think his name is All Colors Sam. Or like, oh, I see. And other people also think that, like, maybe he was referring to the kids as Sam and like, I'm All Colors Sam.

[Christine]

No, I don't.

[Em]

I don't know. There's a whole bunch of theories on like, what he was saying.

[Christine]

I mean. Yeah, and I feel like that said comments inherently doesn't make sense. So it's like, it was probably just a rudimentary way of saying something. And to me, I think you're right. Like, the more likely thing is like, see, I'm rainbow. I'm so. Look how cut. Although All Color Sam is kind of a creepy, like, take on like, it's like an uncanny valley. Rainbow.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Instead of saying Rainbow Sam, it's like all the colors. Right?

[Em]

That's totally right. It does sound like it. Like a black eyed kid trying to.

[Christine]

Say, like, yeah, trying to say rainbow.

[Em]

Oh, God, I nominate him as a gay icon. By the way, this All Color Sam.

[Christine]

I mean, I do love that for him of.

[Em]

Of the cryptid thrust to adopt.

[Christine]

Well, I don't know what's going to happen yet, so I don't remember what happens. Fair enough. But for now, I'll put that on ice.

[Em]

Well, when he did speak to them or after he pointed out his name, he tried speaking to them again. And they realized it was kind of hard to make out what he was saying because his lips don't move because they're literally painted. Done. But apparently he could speak a little bit. I guess there was a speaker somewhere. I don't totally understand his anatomy. They asked him why his.

[Christine]

You don't totally understand it?

[Em]

Not actually any at all.

[Christine]

Just somewhat.

[Em]

They asked why his clothes were ripped and he said they were the only ones he had. Which, like, I like that he can say that in a full sense, but he can't say his name is Sam. And he wears all.

[Christine]

I love kids more than anything. They're like, hey, what happened to your clothes? Not like, why the are you look like that? You know, they're like, like, why are your clothes all torn? What happened? Did you get hurt? Like, it's just like so human.

[Em]

Humanizing. But Then it would be something like, really, like. Like socially unacceptable. Right.

[Christine]

Right.

[Em]

After that, it'd be like, why. What happened to your clothes? Why are you so fat and ugly? Like something.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Really awful.

[Christine]

What happened to your clothes? Did you eat too much food and bust out of them or something? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like a kid can really turn on you quick with those kind of compliments.

[Em]

Well, they asked if he was human.

[Christine]

Next good question.

[Em]

And he says, no. And then they said, are you a ghost? Oh. And Sam said, well, not really, but I am, in an odd sort of way.

[Christine]

Holy.

[Em]

And so then Faye says, well, what are you then? And Sam smiled and said, you know, I want to die. What does that mean?

[Christine]

How did he stop? How did he smile?

[Em]

I don't know anything more than that. How physically did he smile? His mouth is painted on.

[Christine]

That's what I said. His lips don't move. That's not possible.

[Em]

Okay, fine. He didn't smile. Stared at them with.

[Christine]

He was probably already smiling. So I guess maybe technically it's true because he's been smiling the whole time.

[Em]

So he actually did nothing. And Emotionless said, you know, though. Which is worse.

[Christine]

You know, I mean, also actually, no smiling. I don't know. It's all bad.

[Em]

So Sam then invites them into his hut. You know, bad Mickey Mouse Club that.

[Christine]

That. The big metal with no windows. Mouseketeer Club.

[Em]

The kids said yes, and they followed him in. And the only way in was to crawl through, essentially, a doggy door. A small flap. They just crawled through that. That was. That should have released some red flags, but I guess.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. Now you think now when they're crawling into. They're like. If this were a door, a revolving door, maybe I would have been on.

[Em]

Board the second design.

[Christine]

I don't think the second I have.

[Em]

To be on my knees and crawling.

[Christine]

That is a good. That is a good point.

[Em]

There's something, like, extra, like, degrading in my mind to it of, like, there's something just a little too submissive, though. Not in, like, a dirty way or anything.

[Christine]

It's just probably crawling through. Yeah.

[Em]

It doesn't say if he had a crawl. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.

[Christine]

But also, like, I. No, and I didn't mean it, like, in a degrading way. I just met or, you know, in a. In a way beyond, like, anything.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Above board. But I just mean, like. But they're kids, so they're probably, like, used to crawling around and, like, that's not probably as weird for.

[Em]

It just felt like an adventure. Maybe for them.

[Christine]

It's almost like, come to my treehouse. Right. And you're like, oh, yeah, have to crawl in. Yeah. I feel like that's like, less of a red flag to a little kid, but you're right. Like, I'd be like, actually, this is where I. My dog's really thirsty, actually, and I have to go home.

[Em]

I think also for me, if anyone tells me to crawl anywhere, I know getting up, I'm gonna embarrass myself going. You know, I just don't.

[Christine]

We're not even gonna go there.

[Em]

We're not that close yet.

[Christine]

No. No.

[Em]

So the kids crawl on in. Apparently, he crawls in, too. And the kids have described the hut, saying that it's two floors. Floors. The bottom floor had metal flooring, so the walls and floor, it seems like all of it's just one metal. I don't know why Tuna fish can.

[Christine]

I'm sort of picturing it like bikini bottom pineapple, where it's like you crawl in through the little thing.

[Em]

Yeah. Well, in that case, it'd be Squidward's house if it's all metal. Right. Or this is how Smuddle. No, it's statue.

[Christine]

I don't remember. Oh, yeah.

[Em]

But yeah, it's. It's. It does feel a little spongebob.

[Christine]

You crawl in. The first floor is all metal. Okay.

[Em]

And the floor is metal. The walls have blue and green wallpaper, and they're covered in dials. The second floor had lower ceilings and the. And they pretty much said, like, everything in there was, like, there was an electric heater and furniture made of wood. He is also made of wood. So technically, is that like him sitting on his own French friends?

[Christine]

Is he made of wood or is it like, he's just got wood.

[Em]

He's got wood on him. It would be like us having, like, bone furniture, I guess.

[Christine]

I mean, we do have that because a lot of. Yeah. Leather we've got.

[Em]

That's a good point.

[Christine]

Bone inlay.

[Em]

Okay, well, I stand corrected. Once inside, Sam took off his pointy yellow hat. Hat.

[Christine]

I was like.

[Em]

Took off what, his hand? Not. Not his hat, not his pants. And the three of them kept talking. Great. Sam drew them a picture, and apparently it was a similar looking being to him. And he hinted that there were others like him. He then said that there was a camp of them nearby, but then didn't elaborate. I'd be like, babe, speak on that. But apparently that was all he needed to say. Say there's more of me in there.

[Christine]

Like, let's not talk about that ever again. I don't want to know about it, and I'd rather not pretend. I would rather pretend it doesn't exist.

[Em]

I'd be like, am I safe with them or what's happening here?

[Christine]

I don't want to know anything actually about them. M. You go find out.

[Em]

I was like, am I being recruited?

[Christine]

Yeah. Em's like, is it a club? I would love to join?

[Em]

If I get a pin or a badge or, like a weekly something I'll.

[Christine]

Do a certificate, swag, anything.

[Em]

An initiation ritual that I can't discuss with anyone, but I totally will.

[Christine]

Some hazing.

[Em]

He also said that about his own personality that people scare him at. Like, human beings scare him, and he's afraid of them hurting him.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's a fair. That. Yeah, that. Yes, you should be.

[Em]

But then that could easily twist into a horror movie of, like, I'm afraid they'll hurt me when they find out I like to eat children, you know?

[Christine]

Right, right, right. It feels. This is like. It's kind of. I think the reason I keep getting, like, hung up on the similarities to other things, even though it's really not similar to anything, is just because. Because it's kids. But I'm thinking, like, Hansel Gretel vibes, like, oh, come into my hut, like, in the woods. I don't know. It's just. I mean, it is so unsettling.

[Em]

First of all, it's because you're a mom. Second of all, it's because we grew up on cautionary tales. Third of all, you're German. Like, you are.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly.

[Em]

You see every single reason that this. These kids should have ran away.

[Christine]

Yeah. But I'm also trying to picture it almost from, like, a kid's perspective. Like, if Leona were telling the story and I'm like, yeah. She would describe, like, his clothes were all ripped up. You know, just things that. It's just interesting to think, like. Like that this is from their perspective.

[Em]

But also, like, let's. Well, sure, let's pretend that what happened here is. This is just like, kids imaginations going wild and then telling their parents what they did in. During their day. It is, like, very enlightening to be like, oh, this other thing. That's totally not me. And I'm not projecting at all. We're just scared of human beings and adults, and we feel like they could hurt us. And then we crawled around in. In a. Basically a tree house, like you said. In this place. With a little flap. And we crawled in and it was all made of wood because it's probably a tree. And then there was this clown and he was so nice to us. And he wasn't intimidating at all. And he was. He had all these colors, like. I don't know, it just sounds like it could very easily just be like, exactly. Meant to be a sweet story. And the way that they're telling it, adults are like, what the are you saying?

[Christine]

But it's like the details that get like, okay, something is off. Like something is not just imagination. Like, it's a little too specific.

[Em]

Yeah. And the fact that there's two of them. Part of me is like, did. Are they corroborating each other or are they like gassing each other up and like, really?

[Christine]

Well, I don't know. I think. I'm sure this is literally why Astonishing Legend spends hours on every topic. They probably figured that out. I don't remember.

[Em]

They cracked the case. Yeah, maybe. So anyway, he says he's scared of people. He's afraid of them hurting him. And then oddly, he said if they ever tried to hurt me, which I'm afraid of, I wouldn't fight back. And then he implied that that's what all of the people like him would be like.

[Christine]

Yeah, fight, flight, freeze. You don't want to hurt you. Freeze.

[Em]

Yeah. And I was like, is it that you're. Is it a fight, flight, freeze thing? Or is it like you physically can't defend yourself? Or is it that.

[Christine]

I thought it was like all the people like me, we were. Wouldn't hurt somebody so we don't fight back. That's what. I wouldn't fight anyone.

[Em]

I think if a kid is making pacifists. Yeah, right. I think if a kid was making this up, that's what they probably meant and just said it in a weird way.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Or like a little kid would be like, I can't fight back if a big person tried to hurt me. Like, I don't know. He said he has a way. Okay. This is also like not something a 7 year old would say, I guess he tells them how he's been surviving here and he says he's drinking water and he's eating berries that he collects. X. But the water is from the river and he has a special way of cleaning it so it's safe to drink. He then also says he has no name, even though he fucking just said his name was Sam or all colors.

[Christine]

I mean, maybe that was how he got them kind of.

[Em]

Maybe he just. But then Again, if I told Leona, like, look, I'm all the colors. That doesn't mean that's my name. So you would say.

[Christine]

Well, you wouldn't say, I'm all colors, Alan. And then be like, just kidding.

[Em]

Right, Right. Maybe Sam's way of, like, you know how in telegrams, like, you like, the word stop just shows up in between sentences? Maybe just say Sam at the end of sentences.

[Christine]

He just pointed at the word Sam, remember? Because it was all out of order. It's like, oh, I forgot to put Sam in there. Maybe they forgot the order. Maybe it was like, oh, no. It still doesn't make sense.

[Em]

None of it does. Well, so after he says he knows how to clean the water in a certain way, he doesn't have a name, he then shows the kids how he eats berries, because, remember, his mouth and his face work differently. He puts one in his ear, a berry. Then he lunges his neck forward, and then the berry appeared in his eye socket. Hello. After lunging a second time, the berry then showed up in his mouth. Mouth.

[Christine]

Wait, I thought. He can't move his mouth or his.

[Em]

Eyes, and he doesn't have a neck, right?

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

So how is it lunging twice? Also, is it appearing inside his mouth if the mouth can't open?

[Christine]

That's what I'm saying. And what do you mean? What's this eye socket? Where did that come from?

[Em]

Yeah, he doesn't also does this. I think he just showed you ways that the berry gets all up in his face. But I still didn't learn how he.

[Christine]

Eats it because he doesn't eat it. He's an alien. And I think the deal here is like, oh, look, watch. Don't. Don't you believe me? I eat berries, and then it's like, see, Watch me eat it. And it's like when dads do the thing that Tim just taught Leon of, like, the coin behind the ear, like, watch this. Om nom nom. Like, I feel like.

[Em]

Like he had another one hiding in the eye sock. And then went, right.

[Christine]

He's like, I can eat it. See? Yum, yum. It gives me energy. Like, he's probably an alien that doesn't need ber. But he's just trying to be, like, human.

[Em]

I see. That's a good point, because I was like. I feel like I still didn't learn how he eats it because he's not chewing it or swallowing it or taking it in. Yeah, you're right. You're totally right. He's just showing how food moves around.

[Christine]

Like, A weirdo.

[Em]

So after 30 minutes of being in this house, Faye and the boy leave All Color Sam's Hut and they wander home. They even told a man that they passed on the way home. Oh, we just saw a ghost. And the guy laughed and, like, just kind of walked away because he said.

[Christine]

He'S sort of a ghost. Oh, my God, we just saw a ghost. What a wild. Wow.

[Em]

So then obviously the man doesn't believe them. He's like, oh, seven year olds, but.

[Christine]

Four doesn't know what to do with that. Like, right.

[Em]

Okay, have fun. So Faye ends up several weeks later telling her family what happened. I guess her dad was kind of like, something's going on. What happened, happened. And her father was hesitant at first to believe her and was in denial about that. But he went to go investigate himself, and he ended up going to the area where they heard the siren. They saw the hut and the dad, he did not find Sam. There was no hut in the area. There was no disturbed soil where, like, the hut would have been if it were to have been lifted and left. There were workmen in the area who'd been there for weeks who said that they had never seen anything odd, including a clown walk around.

[Christine]

He probably did not ask. He's like, anything odd? They're like, what do you mean by odd? And he's like, let's not go there. You would know. Yeah.

[Em]

But so he saw nothing. And he was like, okay, kids being kids. But his daughter Faye was so insistent that it kind of freaked him out. And he ended up reaching out to the British UFO Research association or for him or bufora, which is the British version of mufon.

[Christine]

Mufon Bufora is cute for us.

[Em]

Like, fun.

[Christine]

That's like.

[Em]

So here's another reason that her father had originally been in denial or didn't want to believe his daughter is because of a secret he'd been keeping from his family, which is that for the last.

[Christine]

This is why he did believe it.

[Em]

For the last few years, he'd been having his own UFO encounters.

[Christine]

Yeah. So he was like, I actually know something. Because I was like, most parents would have literally swept us under the rug by now and not contacted it. So that's interesting. Wow. Oh, my God, I'm so freaked out again.

[Em]

So he'd been having his own own weird UFO situations and when. And he had never told anyone in his family. But when his daughter all of a sudden started having experiences, he freaked out that his daughter was now being followed by the same things that follow him and so when he accepted that this was really happening or something was going on, because his daughter was so insistent, he decided to contact Bufora. So his situation was that in was, let me think, three years before he was. Three years before Faye had her thing with Sam, he was driving and he saw a big ass UFO with seven balls of red light hovering in the sky. And he actually stopped to watch it for a second. Like a dad watching a hurricane come in. He.

[Christine]

Okay, but every UFO story, I feel like people say that, like we pulled over and just got out and stared at it.

[Em]

That's your sign to just never do it. If I see something, I just keep it moving. I'm really.

[Christine]

I would for sure.

[Em]

I don't want to get followed by something. And that seems to be what happens to everyone.

[Christine]

I like how you're like, I'll talk to humans on. On a. A random man. I don't know. And I'm like, really? I would.

[Em]

And you're like, I would absolutely do something extraterrestrial.

[Christine]

I mean, yeah, maybe.

[Em]

Well, so he watched this thing hover above the sky. He eventually left, and when he was driving away, he noticed that the craft was now silently following him. And according to some of the sources, these lights and this hovercraft for the next two or three years continue to pop up and follow them.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Over and over.

[Christine]

My worst nightmare. So maybe I feel like I would park the car. I don't think I would get out of the car. If there were a lot of other people getting out of the car, I would get out of the car. Safety in numbers. I know that's flawed logic, but that's what I would.

[Em]

Until all of you are strapped to different tables in the same.

[Christine]

I mean, that's hospital. As long as. If I were alone on the road, I'd be like, I didn't see nothing. Don't pull me over. Don't look at me. Don't perceive me. Do not put me on a table. But if there are a bunch of people stopping, I'm like, odds are they'll pick someone else.

[Em]

Yeah. You know what? You're right. There's like, that's right. The odds aren't 100 that I'm gonna get abducted. Just.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Not zero. That's fine.

[Christine]

Certainly such a good story to tell on the podcast. If I ever make it off that.

[Em]

Chrissy, with love, I hope you get abducted. So.

[Christine]

No, no.

[Em]

So in such a detailed way where nothing happened. Hang on. Relax while I wish this upon you. Thank you. First of all, I Hope nothing bad happens to you, but I wish for you to be abducted by someone who you end up getting emotionally attached to because they're also emotionally attached to you, and both of you are just friends. And then they just show you the whole ufo and they go. And this is the cafeteria. This is our menu. And then you bring a copy of it to the podcast so I know what they eat.

[Christine]

Okay?

[Em]

This is what I want.

[Christine]

And this is all for you. Okay?

[Em]

You can't stop me.

[Christine]

Me.

[Em]

That's the thing.

[Christine]

Oh, I can't, can I?

[Em]

And then they even say, this is our drink. This is Glorp Fizz. We want you to drink Glorp Fizz so you can tell the world how great Glorp Fizz is. And then you bring me a sample.

[Christine]

So much stevia in it, you will love it.

[Em]

And then I just want you to describe them to me. I want to know what their eyes look like with their little ponies. Yeah.

[Christine]

Taste the fit, taste the glory.

[Em]

But that was translated. See, that's why they need you, so you can translate it for them because they can't do it on their own.

[Christine]

PR consultant.

[Em]

Don't you kind of wish that, too? And then they leave you alone forever after they drop you off. And your clothes stay on the whole time. Unless you don't want them to be on.

[Christine]

Okay, he takes off his hat. His pointy yellow hat.

[Em]

His pointy hat, not his frilly white pants.

[Christine]

And they say he has sandy brown hair. Reddish brown hair.

[Em]

So I'm just. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't want that, or you do want that.

[Christine]

I don't want to be abducted. Violence.

[Em]

If the scenario I'm laying out happens, I would sign up for that.

[Christine]

Nope.

[Em]

It's just. It's just gonna.

[Christine]

Too many loose ends. I need to see a contract. I need to see that. That you will not follow me. I will need to see that you will not. This doesn't mean. And then later, your daughter will also have to experience, like, I don't want to be signing on some line that I can't read the following fine print.

[Em]

If I knew we would never see each other again, and I got five minutes to just sit with them and try some Glorp Fizz, and everyone's closed on. I'm going. I'm going.

[Christine]

If you had five minutes. What?

[Em]

Five minutes with them.

[Christine]

Okay, but, like, that wasn't part of the contract you laid out. Okay? You know what I mean? Like, I need more guardrails intact. I need. I need to Know that this is a one time like never repeating. Like I'll be. I'll be on some nectar. That won't make me scared.

[Em]

I have an idea. It doesn't have to be today, but eventually a future Patreon idea is that we write the ideal contract if you were. And I'll write one too, like in an imaginary world if I'm.

[Christine]

Okay. Let's do it on yappy hour then. Fine, let's do it on yappy hour.

[Em]

Yes. Okay. So anyway, this dad, the dad of Faye who experienced all this stuff, he had those lights following him for like years. And then.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And then later on a second situation happened where he was by the water again because the last time happened by the water too. And all of a sudden the tide is really weird. It's starting to billow. He is almost getting caught up in the water. And then he looks down into the waves and sees the same glowing lights that he was seeing in the sky that were red. He now sees them yellow glowing under the water, rising up to him.

[Christine]

My God. Okay.

[Em]

Both of these instances totally freak him out. He kept them from his family. But after hearing his daughter insisting that she also had weird experiences, albeit incredibly different experiences, he wondered if there was some sort of connection and reached out to one of the UFO researchers in the area who then said, you should go report it to Before It. So Bufora, they have a publication called the Before a journal. And they covered this case in volume two, number five. And Sam was on the COVID That's the picture I showed you. That's Sam, the drawing.

[Christine]

Okay. And the cat, the black and white one.

[Em]

Yes.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

And the caption of this issue of the Before a journal said report extra ghost or spaceman 73.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

And so they reported this as a very mysterious case with no evidence other than the kids saying that it happened happened. They threw around theories like if is this an alien? Is this a ghost? Is this interesting, like some sort of fae. And the girl's name was Faye and they. That was her pseudonym that they gave her. It's like, what are the odds? Is it a hoax? Is it a hallucination? Is it some sort of shared psychosis after a trauma that they maybe both went through? Is it just a creepy human who like lured them into his house and then let them go go? Or is it just the kids having an imagination? My best guess is that this is just the kids imagination and that their dad projected his own encounters onto his kid and was like there. This must mean something. We've both had weird things happen to us. The dad especially, because he was the one reporting it when it seemed. And he reported it five years after it happened. So this came out in the 1978 issue when the. The All Color Sam story happened in 73.

[Christine]

But do you think that's just, like, when they got around to publishing it, or you think that was when he reported it?

[Em]

The. I. I don't know the answer, but I do know the sources I looked at, they were like, it's kind of fishy that it took five years. So whatever happened there and the fact that in those five years when it was being reported and published, Faye, or Faye never came forward and said anything. The boy never came forward and said anything. It was just like the dad who leaned into this, and he. There's the story that a couple years ago, my kid told me about.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

But it does feel like a classic. Like, dad moved to be hung up on something. And, like.

[Christine]

I mean, but it also, like, clearly caught on. Like, people were clearly, like, yeah, yeah. Freaked out enough to feel like it might be something.

[Em]

A lot of people say it's odd. I don't know if it's that odd. There's a million different circumstances that could be leading to this. But it's odd that the kids never came forward to say it's their story. But because I say, like, they could have just been over it at that point, they probably didn't want to talk about it. Maybe they were embarrassed that they were kids and made something up. Maybe they. It just wasn't a big deal to them. Maybe nothing else ever happened. I mean, who knows what the story is?

[Christine]

Yeah. Or maybe they're traumatized and they don't want to talk about it.

[Em]

You know, and even though there is. There no evidence was found of Sam or the hut, Faye's dad was, like, really insistent, even though he also never saw Sam or the hut or any evidence of it when he went to go check himself. Himself. But he still told people. This is a quote from him. I get the impression that Faye was somehow taken into a bubble of alien reality.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Em]

Created by Sam. Like, he's. I think he's just, like, really leaned into this.

[Christine]

Well, that's the idea of, like, oh, like a. A screen memory. Like, oh, they created a false pretense for what actually, like, the alien made it seem like you were just doing this, when in reality, they're just masking over what really happened. You know what I mean? Like a screen memory.

[Em]

And maybe.

[Christine]

You know what? I just. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

[Em]

No, go ahead.

[Christine]

Okay. I had a realization because I'm looking. That thing about I am all color. Sam was kind of throwing me off, and I'm, like, looking at pictures, and then I was like, what about Sam? I am. And I googled Sam I am. And he is the exact same colors as Sam I am.

[Em]

Dr. Seuss. Sam. I am. Am.

[Christine]

Yeah. Like, yellow with red and green. Like, I don't know, it just is a little strange.

[Em]

Oh, that is. Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, the hat is a different color, but it's still a hat.

[Em]

And I haven't thought about this guy in a long time. Well, yeah, that could be it.

[Christine]

And that came out along, like.

[Em]

60.

[Christine]

So that would have been like, their.

[Em]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

That's a good point. I mean, it could have been them just subconsciously talking about things they already know.

[Christine]

Or, like, it could have been an alien being, like.

[Em]

Or it could have been a glitch in the Matrix. Yeah, it could have been.

[Christine]

It could have been an alien being. Like, this is a thing for kids. I am Sam.

[Em]

You know, Like, I mean, you've said that before, that.

[Christine]

Can't you tell who I am?

[Em]

You've said that before of, like, trying to mask his other things to make you feel safer.

[Christine]

Yeah. Like, Terry Lovelace saw, you know, dancing monkeys, and he's like. And it was scary. But looking back, I think they were trying to make me be, like, be entertained. They thought, like, what do kids like, circus monkeys? And, like, that's what. They connected it back to this, too, because there, it's like, oh, a clown. Circus monkeys. Like, some people have reported with abduction, seeing, like. Like, creepy, like, toys that are supposed to make you feel, like, comforted, but really, it's even scarier, you know, like, they don't really realize it's scarier. So it almost, to me is like, I am Sam. Can't you see all my colors? I don't know. I just feel like it. It. Unless.

[Em]

I don't know.

[Christine]

I'm always like, I want to believe that this is real, but I would like to.

[Em]

It feels like if it's. If it is not real. Incredible imagination.

[Christine]

It's a great story. Yeah.

[Em]

Also, even if it was real, though, we only have a retelling of a retelling of a retelling because we have, like, Faye, who told her dad, who told the journalist, who then reported it based on whatever he thought was useful to the. To the case.

[Christine]

The report.

[Em]

Yeah, I. I do think it's weird that, like, it sounds like nobody ever, like, Reached out to Faye or the boy to get actual details. Like if they were really gone for a half an hour in the hut. Like we have no idea what most of the conversation was and nobody asked. You know, like, that's kind of weird to me. Feels like shoddy reporting hurting.

[Christine]

Yeah, I like wonder if only a few people were interested enough to care, you know, like it's not like a bunch of people would be like, oh, let me get this. Crack this case wide open. Like, I feel like it probably just. I don't know, I don't know.

[Em]

Well, with the minimal evidence we have, all we have is like their story, which we didn't never even really heard about more than from what the dad knows.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

Before, these are some of the reasons why people say that it was just the kid's imagination. Other than their story before, I did not get any reports of UFO sightings in the area at that time. The hut was seemingly never there. The workmen didn't notice a clown in the woods. And Sam also didn't show them anything non human. I mean he showed them wooden furniture. He showed them maybe metal flooring. And his feet were the weirdest things about him.

[Christine]

Well, it's like weird microphone, I guess.

[Em]

Yeah, but it was also. It looked like a normal microphone. I guess it could have just been.

[Christine]

Like had a speaker somewhere, something.

[Em]

Plus the kids never claimed he was an alien. They called him a ghost. And they.

[Christine]

That's true.

[Em]

And they said he looked like a clown. The only person who kept calling it an alien was their dad. My favorite reason that only one source points it out, which I thought was really interesting. They were very team. This is the kid's imagination. But they said all color Sam. Sounds like if you say it fast, alakazam.

[Christine]

And Sam, I am all colors. Am Alakazam.

[Em]

All colors Sam. Well, and then the weirdest thing that Sam did show them was a disappearing reappearing berry, which is a magic trick. So yeah.

[Christine]

Abracadabra. Alakazam. Yeah. Okay.

[Em]

So anyway, it most likely the three. The three options are either that it's like some weird ass alien that was trying to like mask or it was a creepy man luring them into their house and then letting them go, or two kids telling a story that dad took too far. But wow. Yeah, that's all color, Sam.

[Christine]

I mean, I'm telling you that it still creeps me out. Even like if my kid came home and had this like really. And was like really insistent that this really happened happen, I believe I'd be freaked out. Well, I'd probably think something happened. Like somebody did something. You know what I mean? I'd be freaked out that, like, they just didn't understand.

[Em]

I would at the very least believe that, like, a man in the woods.

[Christine]

Let you come into his house, something happened. Like, if you were really, really convinced, you know, that you both saw something and experienced something. Oh, my God. What a story. Okay. Wow. Well, you have to pee. I have to pee.

[Em]

I do have to pee. I forgot I had to pee.

[Christine]

Yeah, I remembered.

[Em]

Thanks. Okay, well, I'll go pee soon.

[Christine]

I. I couldn't decide on an item to discuss from Quince today, and then I went into my orders on their website and I thought, oh, dear, oh, dear. I have so many options to pick from. What should I choose? I think I'm gonna choose the linen pants. Because the linen pants, they're one of their best sellers. And I was kind of skeptical for a while. Style. I wear linen pants now every day, and I look like a beachy, breezy, like, elevated, sophisticated style.

[Em]

You know, 100.

[Christine]

It's the cool. And they're like. I have some with, like, chambray stripe and they're. They're great for travel too, but they look so classy. And Quince, that's the best part. They're not charging an arm and a leg for this kind of thing. Okay.

[Em]

Everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands. And by working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. The other best part about Quince is that Christine finally matches me on style level. She's looking really good.

[Christine]

Finally, forever to figure it out.

[Em]

It was lonely at the top.

[Christine]

Oh, don't mind me. Just easy breezy. Yeah. Quincy works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. And I say that because it is very affordable. And it feels like, oh, this should be cheap, but it really is not.

[Em]

Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.com drink for free shipping on your order. And 300. 365 day returns.

[Christine]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com drink to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com drink I love wine. I love it.

[Em]

That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

[Christine]

Thank you. I don't know how anybody figured it out, but naked wines sure did. They showed up at my doorstep and I said, oh, who? Silly old me. Thank you. Bring it on inside.

[Em]

Yeah. This podcast is sponsored by Naked Wines. Christine was very thrilled when we realized that they wanted to work with us. My favorite thing about it is the little setup they've got because Naked is a wine club. You know, I want to be part of an organization so bad.

[Christine]

Always, always.

[Em]

That directly connects you to the world's best independent winemakers so you can get world class wine delivered straight to your door. That's another per. You know, I hate being inconvenienced. Everybody, right?

[Christine]

Right. You and you alone? Yes. Use our code drink for both the code and [e-mail] and you'll get six free bottles for just $39.99. I recently enjoyed a Naked Wines bottle of Grenache. I'm not really that familiar with the flavor, but I was able to kind of customize my flavor profile without knowing much about wine at all. And they sent this lovely Grenache and I thought, oh, don't mind if I do.

[Em]

Now it's time to join the Naked Wines community. Head to nakedwines.com drink and click enter voucher and put in our code. Drink for both the code and password for six bottles of wine for just $39.99 with shipping included. Included.

[Christine]

That's a hundred dollars off your first 6 [e-mail] Drink use the code and password drink for 6 bottles of wine for 39.99. So I have a story here that's a little bit different today. As I said, I went down kind of a rabbit hole. This is a story I heard about years ago on thing. What is that show called? Things you should know. Things you should know.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And so I re. Listened to that episode and found a few other sources. And I'm going to tell you about the Phantom of Heilbronn. Sorry, it's a German story, AKA the woman without a face.

[Em]

Fish. What? Okay, I can't. Wait, wait, unless. Oh, wait. Can I be excited?

[Christine]

You can be excited. It's our podcast.

[Em]

I know, but if it's like she doesn't have a face because something really traumatic happens to her, then I'm like.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, no.

[Em]

Okay, then I'm stoked.

[Christine]

This starts well. It's kind of all over the place. The timeline is a little wacky.

[Em]

So.

[Christine]

So hold on tight. April 25, 2007, in Hron, Germany. Around 2pm we start. We. We do start heavy. We start dark. Okay. Officer Michelle Kaveta and her partner, Officer Martin, a surname withheld, stopped their marked BMW 5 Series patrol car in a corner of a Large parking lot for lunch. And as they sat down for lunch, bench, two gunmen approached from behind the vehicle, shot both officers in the head with a pistol. Kizaveta, who is seated in the driver's seat, was fatally wounded, died at the scene. And Officer Martin A. Was critically injured, was in a coma for a while, survived. But he was a very, very young guy who had just joined the force. And so, like. And especially to be, like, just on your lunch break, you know, it just was very. It basically upended his whole life. So at arrival, responding officers found both victims lying on the ground next to their car. The. The assailants had stolen each officer's pistol, man and handcuffs. So this was like a really alarming event. And especially, you know, I mean, it would be alarming in the U.S. but imagine in a place where, like, you know, gun fatalities are just not common. Right? And so, so this. This is just like kind of an alarming thing to happen. Now, investigators. This is the. This is 2007. So by this point, DNA evidence is definitely, like, mainstream. So they collected DNA evidence from the car's headrest and dashboard. And here I kind of want to add a point that by this point, it was 2007. Okay. And DNA evidence was definitely a standard part of collecting evidence and, you know, testing crime scene evidence. I have a brief intermission here. We've briefly touched on this before, but I'm going to talk about DNA forensics real quick.

[Em]

Yes.

[Christine]

So it wasn't actually until the mid-1980s that DNA was first used to solve a criminal case. And that is when British geneticist Alex Jeffries helped convict a man using what he called DNA fingerprinting. And that man was colleague Colin Pitchfork, the man who had been convicted. He was convicted of rape and murder in 1986 of children. And that was the first time DNA was used to convict somebody. He had raped and murdered two girls, Linda Mann and Dawn ashworth, in the 80s. At 8, they were 15 years old. And so when DNA came in and. And this conviction happened, like, DNA came hot on the scene, right? Like, like, it. It made a grand entrance. They were like, holy. This is groundbreaking. You know, by the 2000s, we have CSI, we have all these things where people are like, oh, DNA is like, it. You know, the. The new. The new thing. And it became king. It was seen as a gold standard, right? Like, if you have DNA, you will. What was that movie, Remember that movie about, like, that guy trying to not leave DNA anywhere anyway?

[Em]

Oh, that's just the movie I play in my head every Day when I wonder if I could, like, escape murdering somebody like this.

[Christine]

Wow. Okay. It's a sci fi movie we had to watch in biology. Whatever. Anyway, you don't ever do that.

[Em]

You don't think, could I get away with it? You don't ever. In my head, every day, I'm like, how could I get away with it?

[Christine]

Who are you killing? Like, people.

[Em]

Some amorphous blob of a thing. I don't know.

[Christine]

I mean, like, occasionally, if I'm, like, thinking about it, but I'm not, like, constantly, like, wondering. I don't know.

[Em]

I think I. I played the game too often, and now it's just a regular thing in my head where I'm.

[Christine]

Just like, that's comforting.

[Em]

I'm like, oh, I wouldn't get away with it this time because I left this time. Yeah. Every day I start over, I'm like, oh, But I. I'm like, wow, you.

[Christine]

Should write like a. Choose your own adventure or something.

[Em]

Yeah. But in every adventure, I fail and go to jail because I. Yeah. Every single. The only time I. It's kind of like, I'm so sorry to do this, everybody. You know the game.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

When you lose, fortunately.

[Christine]

We all just lost.

[Em]

It's. It's kind of like. It's kind of like that, where I only ever think about it now in a circumstance where, like, I'm leaving my DNA everywhere. Like, if I'm, like, just touching everything and then I go, oh, I wouldn't have saved somebody, all right. I wouldn't have gotten away with it.

[Christine]

It sort of like pops into mind when you're like. Like when I'm doing this and my hair falls out everywhere, and I'm like.

[Em]

Oopsie, you got it.

[Christine]

Yeah. So, okay, so DNA was like, what we're talking about. It was all over. People were talking about. It was such a. I mean, imagine, like, it was such a groundbreaking idea, and now it could put away child rapists and murderers. I mean, it was, like, huge. And so DNA came hot onto the scene, became king, became gold standard, and people just trusted it. Right? Like, if you have a jury and you say, like, oh, there's DNA here. And it was. This person's DNA was found at the scene. Odds are the jury's gonna be like, yeah, that sounds. Sounds right? That sounds like he did it. So now I want to tell you what happened when they ran this evidence. It's 2007. They get this evidence from this murder of one police officer and their partner, who. Not partner, but attempted murder of the Partner who was. Was badly injured. And they get this evidence and run it through. Through the amorphous system, whatever that is called, and they find out that this DNA signature is in the system as having been pinged at several locations, several crime scenes.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

But it's nobody named, nobody in their system that they've apprehended yet. And it's a woman.

[Em]

Interesting. I didn't even know that there could be DNA in a system. Oh, sorry. I'm understand now. DNA in the system where they had collected evidence and.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Em]

Gotcha. I thought someone voluntarily gave their fingerprints without another name. Sorry.

[Christine]

No, no. So, yeah. So basically the DNA collected at other cold cases suddenly pinged when they ran this sort of DNA from this really brutal crime scene.

[Em]

So this is hinting at someone like being involved in a series of crimes, of murders.

[Christine]

Okay, Correct. And so that was really alarming to two investigators. The first cold case that this woman, this mystery woman's DNA actually appeared at was back in 1993. Okay, now remember, this is 2007. So basically, basically, this DNA that they collected at this crime went all the way back to 1993 when it was collected. And at the time they collected evidence, they didn't run the evidence from this cold case until 2001. That what I'm about to tell you.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

But it occurred in 1993. So this means that this person, whoever this is, has been at the early. At the Latest, started in 1993 at this one crime scene and now in 2007. Is still active is what this is implying. Right. Because they're showing up at all these crime scenes. So I'm gonna really quickly tell you about these cold cases. Because when these two police officers were shot in broad daylight in their like basically in their patrol cars, this became sensational news. It wasn't common knowledge until that point that. That there was already this pattern being established behind the scenes where a couple cold cases had featured the same DNA of this woman. And they were trying to figure it out. And when the cops laying happened, it sort of like blew up in the media. And people really started to keep an eye on this and try to figure out what the hell was going on.

[Em]

Got it.

[Christine]

So quick story that takes us back to 1993. All right? This woman named Lisa Lotto. Lisa Lotta Schlanger. And she was 62, 1993, she's supposed to have a friend over for tea, and her friend stops by and knocks on the door. No answer. Police check in. They unfortunately find the deceased body of Mrs. Schlange. Her. Someone had strangled her to death using wire from her own floral bouquet in her sitting room. It's like. It's like a. Like monk or something, you know, it's like. Yeah.

[Em]

That feels bizarre. Really. What does it make? I don't. Do I need to analyze this one?

[Christine]

You can, you can analyze all you want because this is one of the weirdest things I've ever covered.

[Em]

I was gonna say the. To have wire from a. If first of all, it feels like then it was a crime of passion in some way.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Because like, otherwise you would have brought something else. Surely to feel so comfortable to like meticulously go through someone's stuff and like, let alone rip apart a bouquet just for that, like, it all feels very intimate or personal.

[Christine]

It does.

[Em]

An opportunity.

[Christine]

It really does. And so the, you know, this is like horrifying. This is 1993. They collect all the evidence and they, they kind of. They ask around. Of course, they do their due diligence and, and ask everyone they can think of. Nobody saw anything, Nobody has any clues what happened. It's kind of like they have to put that evidence on ice until 2001, when DNA is a much more common.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

Commonly used tool in the crime solving toolbox. And Fast forward to 2001. They open up this evidence again. They decide to run things again and run evidence through, you know, DNA testing. And they find a clue. Finally, on the teacup, a coffee cup in Frau Schlanger's home, there is a trace amount of DNA and it is of a random woman, future.

[Em]

Future homegirl, who's ever everywhere.

[Christine]

Right. We don't know this yet, but it. But looking back, this is the first instance that the Phantom of Halbron has shown up.

[Em]

Wow. Okay.

[Christine]

Okay, so now the next instance. This was. That was 2000, that was 1993. That, that took place now in 2001, also in Germany, a victim named Joseph, or yours, Joseph Waltzenbach, age 61, was strangled in his shop with some nearby garden twine.

[Em]

Oh. Also feels opportune.

[Christine]

Yeah. And the phantom's DNA was also found at the scene.

[Em]

Wow. Okay.

[Christine]

And these are all happening within a similar area. This is like Germany, a bit of Austria, I believe, just kind of similar, like central European, European one. Weird fact that they mention on things you should know or something you should know. What's it called?

[Em]

Things you should know.

[Christine]

Things you should know. I also listen to something was wrong. And I think my brain gets them mixed up.

[Em]

I. I mix it up with how stuff works, I think.

[Christine]

Oh, that too. Yeah. Something things you should know. Yeah, they mentioned that they put the closed. Whoever did the committed the crime and murdered this man. Put the clothes sign on the shop front.

[Em]

Like, turned up to clothes implies intent, for sure.

[Christine]

Yeah, right. Or like, did it afterward, I think, but like, did it to. To just. It's just extra, like gross. Sorry. Clothes for the day, you know? So they did find the phantom's DNA on a kitchen drawer handle. And so that was the second cold case. Looking back from 2007, realizing that this is such a pattern. Now, another wild one was that in October 2001, near. Near Gerolstein, Germany, a child stepped on a discarded heroin syringe recovered in the woods. Thankfully, the child ended up okay. But when they tested the needle, they found the phantom's DNA on the syringe barrel.

[Em]

Wow. Where the. Who is this? Just like a world traveler. Like, what's going on?

[Christine]

Evil Carmen San Diego. You know what I mean? It's like, where in the world. World?

[Em]

You know, there was forever ago on. On YouTube, like back when we were in, like, high school, someone made a trailer to a horror themed Where's Waldo? And I feel like it's all coming back now. So, like, feels like, yeah, Aldo. Yeah.

[Christine]

It's like, where will they pop up next? You know? And so she's showing up in all these places and then it's like, wait a minute, she does heroin?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

She's getting away with decades of crime.

[Em]

And we're learning too much. We're learning way too much about her, except who she is.

[Christine]

But it's also like, how could you be so adept at crime if you're addicted to heroin? Do you know what I mean? Like, great. Is she this mastermind? Or like, is she looking for a fix? Right? Like, is it like the mo. Oh, she just wants enough cash to, like, buy drugs? Or is it like, oh, there's this bigger picture.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

She also does heroin on the side. You know, it's like.

[Em]

It almost feels like she had a. Like a hit list or something. Or that she's, like, interesting.

[Christine]

Or that she's a very intentional kind of.

[Em]

Well, because, like, why is she going around doing this so many times? You would think if it was. First of all, it. For all the opportune situations we're talking about, it feels like most of them are, like, things she didn't mean to do. In which case it would be accidental, in which case you wouldn't be doing this so many fucking times. So it.

[Christine]

Right. So it feels accidental. I don't know about.

[Em]

Sorry. Yeah. That's the wrong word. Like, like not like planned, like not.

[Christine]

In the moment, like heat of the moment thing. Yeah.

[Em]

So yeah, then, then maybe that kind of explains like drugs would do that.

[Christine]

Or like, I guess that's fair point.

[Em]

Mental health thing.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's a fair point.

[Em]

But yeah, it feels like what, what did all these people do? Like, are. Are you just that hot headed, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Or is this like a ring of people that all happen to like just be tricking the masses by placing the same DNA in every spot?

[Christine]

Okay, so this is like by 2007, people. Well, mostly the police. But then when this starts to like become worldwide news, or at least international news, people within Europe, people are saying like, oh, like this is this phantom, like murderer and who knows where she's gonna strike next? And like clearly very good at this because she hasn't been caught. And so, so once. So once the 2007 murder happens of the police officer and the attempted murder on the other police officer, this is when this blows up into huge news and it becomes this full pattern they're seeing. This is now the fourth time that this has shown up. Now I'm going to go back and tell you all the other times throughout, aside from these three cold cases that I mentioned, that this woman's DNA has shown up on crime scenes. Okay. Because they're starting to piece this together. They're building a task force. They're thinking, like, how the do we stop this clearly serial killer who's under our noses. And here are just some of the. Because if I spent enough detail on all of these, we would be here for more hours than we somehow already are. So I'm gonna tell you, it's the first one here that I have in addition to the ones I've already covered. October 24, 2001, in Budenheim, Germany. There was a forced entry, burglary of a trailer. Cookie crumbs were recovered at the scene and they found the Phantom's DNA on the cookie crumbs.

[Em]

Mood. Got it.

[Christine]

Mood. In 2004, in I don't know how to say it, France, there was a crime of armed robbery of Vietnamese gemstone traders. And on the toy pistol used to hold up these traders, traders with a D, the Phantom's DNA was discovered. So now they're like, oh, my God, she's a gem thief. Like real Carmen Sandiego. Evil Carmen San Diego vibes, you know.

[Em]

Like, it's kind of. It's also a little. It's now becoming more of a wishbone situation where it's like you wear many hats. Like.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's like a. Yeah, yes. And, and, and that's what they're thinking. Like, how is this like a syndicate, you know? Like, is this like, does she have like a hitman with her? Like, or not a human, but like a partner in crime? So that was 2001, 2004, and these are, these are ones that kind of went out of the norm. So the first three that I mentioned obviously are very similar. The cold cases there, I mean, not the, not the heroin, but the, the ones that happened with the twine and the, well, the twine and the twine, the two different types of twine. Those were very, very clear homicides. Now we have four century burglary, we have gem theft. And now we have this in. This is so wild in 2005. In it's spelled worms, but it's worms, this town, which every time I listen to a podcast and they're like worms Germany. I'm like, oh, here we go. The incident was a sibling dispute that escalated to gunfire. And on one of the spent bullet casings, it had the phantom's DNA.

[Em]

What the fuck is going on?

[Christine]

I know. And so now we're Fast forward again 2006 to 2007. We have, in Zabrechen, we have a burglary and there's this window smashed with a stone. And they find the DNA of the phantom woman on the stone that broke the window. This is like becoming. It's like. And the fact that it's almost like you said roll. It's. It's like it doesn't make sense because you're killing these people almost in a crime of passion. And then all of a sudden you're just like, I guess I'll steal a few emeralds. And then you're like, I kind of want to check into this trailer and see what's going on and eat some cookies, you know, like, it's like, what the is going on.

[Em]

I know this can't as of today be a valid explanation, but it feels like time travel travel.

[Christine]

Like it feels, yeah, like leaving cookie crumbs literally at the scene.

[Em]

Well, for someone who is willing to kill this many people or do this kind of damage and like isn't even afraid of leaving evidence because at this.

[Christine]

Point, like, it's giving narcissist because like evidence. Because DNA evidence is like widely known. I mean, I talked about like CSI was the big thing. Like everybody knew DNA evidence was where it's at. Sad.

[Em]

It's either narcissism or it's some sort of mental health drug situation because, like, there's no way that you're doing it this many times.

[Christine]

So brazenly.

[Em]

So brazenly. And like leaving evidence every time and knowing DNA is out there and not really caring and still getting away with it. So it's only feeding into this. Like it's.

[Christine]

Yes, something's happening and it's like twins.

[Em]

Could it be twins? Twins.

[Christine]

Oh, interesting. Twin. Just now I did say evil twin. Twin.

[Em]

I think twins have different DNA though, don't they? Or identical DNA. They don't. I don't know.

[Christine]

Keep going.

[Em]

Okay, obviously it's not twins.

[Christine]

Twins. And I don't want to answer because I will probably be wrong. Okay.

[Em]

I think they are identical. Twins have identical DNA. Fraternal twins do not. Okay, it doesn't matter. Keep going. Sorry.

[Christine]

Cool, cool, cool. Okay, cool, cool, cool. So then my friend's twins could probably pull off some sort of heist, I think.

[Em]

Cool.

[Christine]

They are identical. So remember that the cop Murder happened in 2007, and all these kind of random sporadic incidents that I'm listing, they're starting to piece together that this woman's DNA has been at all these scenes. And of course, they're varying levels. We have murders, we have like random small time burglary. We have big heist energy of like a gemstone dealer, you know, like just. We have a heroin needle in the woods. Goods like quite an array of situations happening here. And this is what they're kind of putting together in 2007 and what's becoming public knowledge now. So people are like, holy. This is. This is like a. A pattern. So we've got the burglary with the stone. And now in March 2007. Man, this story of all stories to pick.

[Em]

I love this. I can you do more stories like this? This is so fun.

[Christine]

It's. It's a doozy. I was like, of all stories today, I want to do that one that I heard a long time ago.

[Em]

Anyway, this is whatever the energy is here. I'm sure someone's partner is in the car, stuck listening to us and just wants us to be over. But, like, I am loving it.

[Christine]

I need everyone to know that you got to buckle the fuck up.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

March 2007 in Gallo. Kiev in Austria.

[Em]

Well done.

[Christine]

There's a crime. There's a break in at an optician's shop.

[Em]

Shop.

[Christine]

And there is DNA found on the glass display case in April 2007 in Heilbronn. That is when the murder of the officer happened. And the attempted murder happened. And that is when all of this blew to the front page. And they said, we've not only got what they had been calling the woman without a face, but we've now got the Phantom of Hron because somebody just shot these officers in cold blood. And we found out that this woman, of all things, has been causing. Creating non. I. I don't even know what the right word is. Committing crimes for many, many years. Murdering people for many, many years and burglarizing them.

[Em]

How many crimes had been committed before the announcement of DNA existing and being used? Used? Because there could have been like, one in, like, 93 where she was like, oh, I didn't go through.

[Christine]

I think you're right. 93 was the one that got figured out in 2000, that was tested in 2001. And everything else seems to have been 2001 on that. That could be. That could be only because they were testing, like, cold cases, specifically, like, retesting for evidence. So I don't know. Know. I. I don't know if it, like, became standard in 2001. And that's when they really started, like, clocking it.

[Em]

Sure. Because it is interesting. If it's not a mental health situation or drugs and this, I'm assuming this person is, quote, sound of mind, you would think, Damn, I really am so lucky I got away with that. 93. I gotta get it together, right.

[Christine]

I gotta keep it.

[Em]

Yeah. And then also another theory that I'm just gonna throw out there, see how you feel about it. Maybe they're part of some sort of, like, ritual, and not in a witchy way, but in maybe like. Like a. Some sort of satanic panic kind of way or like, culty way.

[Christine]

Like there's like a faux like. Like, Like a Manson type way.

[Em]

Yes. Yes, that's exactly right.

[Christine]

Earthquake. Just kidding. That's not.

[Em]

Because why else would they be in so many places with so many random people that they had this vendetta against?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

It's almost like they're the person that's, like, cleaning up after other people have done something. And so all.

[Christine]

It's all very Dexter, but, like, only their traces are San Diego. I don't know. It's. It's just. And Where's Waldo? It's like a very weird, like, murderous fairy tale. Like, it just feels like, what is going on here? It's like a dark twist on it.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I don't know. I don't know. On a fantastical story.

[Em]

Agreed.

[Christine]

So, yeah. So, okay, so we have the. The evidence we have now another one in 2007 of this optician shop. Now we've got the H1 Phantom, and that's what she becomes known as. Okay, now just to kind of recap here. From 2003 to 2007, in Germany and Austria, we've got over 20 burglaries and motor vehicle thefts across the. Across Hesse V zent, Tyrol, Austria and Upper Austria, all bearing the same DNA profile of this mystery woman. 20 burglaries and motor vehicle thefts.

[Em]

She doesn't sleep.

[Christine]

No. And then we've already got these. Okay, sorry. So that's 2003, 2007, plus the murders, of course. Now in January 30, 2008, we've got. Got another really, really, really high profile crime. Three Georgian nationals were found shot to death in their parked car.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

In Henheim, Germany. And this is January of 2008. And when they collected evidence at the scene, they found the phantom woman's DNA inside the vehicle.

[Em]

I'm so over this. At what point do you think there was, like, an Olivia Benson who's just fucking done. Like, there can't be one more that goes by where we don't have this solved. There has to be.

[Christine]

We'll get to it. We'll get to the one where they're like, we're. This is enough.

[Em]

I was gonna say there's gotta be some cops. There's an angry cop who's like, throwing their papers everywhere, going, come on, like, where the. Is this girl?

[Christine]

Here's a tipping point. Yes. So of course this, like, triple homicide is shocking because it's like, well, this is a woman. Keep in mind, she. She's clearly like, whether she's on heroin now or not or whatever, it's possible she is. But how on earth did she kill three men and leave their bodies in a car and disappear? She must be working with someone. She must be part of some syndicate. There must be a spy. She must be some sort of secret spy. There must be like a whole group of people involved. And she has all these people. But the wild part is like, nobody ever talks, right? So even if they find someone else's DNA or they're like, like, you know, they have a suspect in mind. Every time they talk to someone, they. They go quiet. There's no naming this person. And it is pissing off the cops because they're like, nobody is this fucking good. Like, except carbon. San Diego. So March through April 2008, we're back in Germany and we've got four separate home invasions. This is in a month. Four separate home invasions and one apartment break in on April 9th. Ninth Phantom DNA on entry tools and doorknobs of these play of all these places. So now we're doing like lock picking and it's like you just murdered three men and now you're just like lock picking apartments.

[Em]

This person has adhd. Like they're. Well, I'm sorry, but the hyper fixation really comes in full effect when you need many skills. Like, I know there was a middle of the night situation where they needed to learn how to pick a lock and all of a sudden now that's what they're doing, doing. At one point they got really into.

[Christine]

YouTube was out by 2008.

[Em]

They got really into gems at three in the morning and all of a sudden they need gems.

[Christine]

They, they got a rock tumbler from National Geographic Toys and they needed to figure it out.

[Em]

I'm telling you, like they're. I know it's like not actually like serious to this, but if I needed to diagnose them, if I were like the BD Wong in this situation, I would, I would flirt with adhd.

[Christine]

You'd be like, that's actually the first layer. Like, that's like the shallowest layer. Like there's a lot we've got to dive into.

[Em]

If you're interviewing someone and they happen to say they need to stop the interview to go take Adderall, I would jot that down.

[Christine]

Like, yeah, maybe it's worth a mention.

[Em]

Let's, let's keep them on the roster.

[Christine]

Yeah, I think, I think so. Because they find these four home invasions and apartment break in within a month. And we've got got DNA on all of them from this woman. Now we're going to May, the following month, 2008, in Zahotzbach, Germany. We've got a crime of armed robbery of a woman in a clubhouse. Like a kind of, I think like a cabana clubhouse type thing. And they found the DNA of the woman on a drinking glass. Now we're fast forwarding a couple months, but again, this is like escalating. You know, we had 1993, now we're in 2008 and it's like monthly or weekly almost. And we've got the case of Diana Pavlanko. Unfortunately, this is, this is another really rough one. So Diana Pavlenko was 45 years old in Vinespack, Germany. She worked as an auxiliary nurse and she was found next to her car on the ground dying of a gunshot wound and of course, seemingly unrelated but of course, they found the phantom DNA's evidence inside this woman's vehicle.

[Em]

Insane.

[Christine]

2009. This is the moment, okay? It's gone. Finally gone too far for everyone, okay? And I know folks, that in the past, people have complained that my stories have gotten too short. This one's just short on purpose because. Well, not on purpose, but it is just kind of one of those cases where it's like. It just kind of more bullet points. And also, we've been here two and a half hours, so I hope it's okay that this is a little shorter than usual.

[Em]

The best part about it being short is that they're never short when. When we're in the room.

[Christine]

No, we.

[Em]

No conversation.

[Christine]

Experience isn't short. Ever. Yeah, you're trapped. No matter what, no matter how long I talk. But. So we're in late 2008. We've had this Diana Pavlano. Now we hit early 2009. 9. This is when everything unravels. Okay, so there is this asylum seeker, this male asylum seeker, and he. This man, he is found dead. And when they go back to look through his asylum paperwork and find his fingerprints, they find the phantom's DNA on his fingerprint application. Like ink fingerprint application. And they said, that's all right. Like, this has been ridiculous. But, like, that's impossible. This is a. They tested again. No, none of. None of the phantoms DNA.

[Em]

I can't imagine. Okay, just keep going.

[Christine]

There are also some issues where people who are witnesses of these crimes have described what they saw. And they saw someone with apparently a really ugly goatee.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Oxymoron. Just kidding. Wait, no. Is that an oxymoron?

[Em]

No, I meant the office.

[Christine]

I meant the offices.

[Em]

To me, it's an exact fact. Perfect description.

[Christine]

I meant. What's the word where you say it's like redundant? Redundant.

[Em]

That's what I meant. There you go.

[Christine]

Okay, whatever. Sexy goatees. No. So they literally saw a goatee. And so now, I mean, seriously, they're thinking, like, is this a trans man? Is this a woman pretending to be a man? And that's how she's getting away with.

[Em]

This fake facial hair. Is it right?

[Christine]

Is it like a disguise? You know, Is it like a. A conspirator? You know, we don't know. And so the. The police are losing their. This is years and years and years. They have spent overtime, so much money on this. And then a newspaper, an aspiring journalist comes out with. With an angle that the police weren't quite ready to admit yet, but would soon be kind of splashed all over headlines worldwide. The DNA was ultimately traced to the cotton swab manufacturing plant where an employee, a grandmother, I believe she's a 71 year old or 61 year old grandmother. Her DNA as she packaged up these little cotton swabs was getting trace amounts on there. And when the police bought these in bulk and started using them, her DNA occasionally would get picked up.

[Em]

Okay, so was this little old lady.

[Christine]

It was this little old lady.

[Em]

Did she have like PCOS or something that gave her facial hair or like, what was the. Do we know anything about it? What? I'm confused. What? Tell me.

[Christine]

There was never a phantom lady. Wait, it was her factory. A factory employee, just this little grandma. They were buying these swabs that already had some old lady's DNA on them because first of all, they blamed the manufacturer. And then the manufacturer said, we expressly do not sell these for DNA testing. Like, this is not forensic grade cotton swabs. Like, there was not. The company was like, we do not say we're. We're at a like level for DNA testing. Like, we don't claim that at all. Yeah, this was all literally this random lady's DNA showing up at completely.

[Em]

So she was just like, there, there was no person doing a string of things.

[Christine]

It was just no link whatsoever. Except that they bought this cotton swabs from that.

[Em]

Which means that all of those like, murders were still like now brand new open cases, right?

[Christine]

Well, not quite, because they did have. Well, they were still open because they thought this was just some random lady. But they, they had already arrested several people in connection with a lot of these crimes. But like I said, every time they interrogated them and said, who was the woman with you? They were like, imagine. And they thought, oh, they're protecting this woman. And it's like there literally was no woman. They're just like, what are you talking about?

[Em]

Imagine her at bingo the next day, you, her book club. They got nothing done, I'll tell you that.

[Christine]

My God, my God, oh, my God, oh my God.

[Em]

Every, you know, every time she touched a mahjong tile to go, oh dear. DNA, look out. Like, they would rip her. Oh, you know, she was just like the butt of the joke. And I hope she was in on it.

[Christine]

I hope so too. I don't know. I think she was just a Polish grandma. I have no idea.

[Em]

Poor old lady, too. Imagine, like, I don't know how I would feel. I'd be like, I'd feel. And yeah, like, my first initial joke is like, to Joke about it. But also I'm like, oh no.

[Christine]

Most sources have been very like cautious of name, like not to name her and stuff because it's not, you know, relevant. And she didn't do anything. She was doing her job. But it is like such a wild, wild story because it's like, oh, oh. I want to give you some facts here.

[Em]

Sure.

[Christine]

I want to give you the aftermath.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

So I was going to say all.

[Em]

This, all I'm thinking about right now is like how she, she just wins every icebreaker.

[Christine]

She has nothing to do. Oh yeah, she wins icebreaker. She's kind of out of the picture now. But the cost of this error.

[Em]

Can I guess? Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to keep.

[Christine]

Okay, I would like you to guess how many overtime hours in this period of time. I mean it's years of work, but how many overtime hours and how many million euros? Well, sorry, I just ruined it. 2 million euros. Sorry. How many? I would have guessed a million overtime hours.

[Em]

I would have guessed a million dollars. And I would have said, well, I'm trying to think. I don't even know how many cops were on the case, but overnight for years.

[Christine]

I know, that's why it's hard. It's like 10,000, 16,000 or more overtime hours. Yep. 2 million euro cost of error for the error and dozens of diverted investigations and man hours just spent on like chasing a ghost.

[Em]

Literal phantom.

[Christine]

Ghost. A phantom.

[Em]

Is that why it's called phantom or was that.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

Well, no, they actually called her the Phantom before because they were like she just disappears. And it was a literally non existent instant villain.

[Em]

The collective sigh everyone had to have.

[Christine]

Made and that I usually feel I. Oh, I know. And apparently some of the police, some of the investigators had already said like they were working on the angle and the other cops were like, why the didn't you tell us? Like we, you already had this in mind. But like they kept it quiet because they were like, we don't want that getting out that like we've just been duped by our own lab results and whatever. I mean it, it is bonkers. And now in addition to that, there's now a international standard for DNA free forensic consumable. So when they send these swabs, they are testing them to make sure there's not pre existing DNA. Remember even in the JonBenet case where there were there was DNA found in her underwear and people claim like it could have been in a factory because this happens like that DNA in a factory. If you're just Buying random cotton swabs. Yeah. There might be trace evidence of DNA on them.

[Em]

I wonder, like, was there something about her DNA specifically that was sticking onto like.

[Christine]

Because they bought that batch or whatever. Like they. Okay, they just happened to buy from this location and this plant and this whatever. And it was kind of batch she was working on happened to be the one that they were using.

[Em]

You know, reminds me of like, that. The Tylenol thing where like random people were just all dying. And like, I think they thought they were all connected to each other, but it was just that they were all buying the. This like.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Botched thing of Tylenol.

[Christine]

Like, it's like tampered.

[Em]

Tampered.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I mean, it's just really wild. And it's like they looked like fools. Right? Like, they spent millions of euros. They spent.

[Em]

Yeah, but how would you know? Like, I don't even really blame them. Like, how would you. This whole time I was making guesses, I never thought that, you know.

[Christine]

Okay, so every time I hear this story on like some somewhere and the other person doesn't really know know it. It's like they. They always say, don't feel bad. It literally took the police, like, over a decade.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

To figure out, like, don't feel bad. That like, you didn't. Because it feels like it's some sort of like, weird, like, Robin Hood, D.B. cooper, like, mystery Agent Carmen San Diego fantastical thing. But then you hear these horrible, like, actual crimes and you're like. And then the first two being those. Or the first two I mentioned being those. Those, like, both twine that was found on the scene and you know, like, it elderly people. And it felt like, is it intentionally elderly people? But then all of a sudden it diverts. So these are all different crime. Not all of them, but I will. I want to give a little bit of context here. A few of the crimes. Actually several of the crimes have already been solved. And so I do want to give an update on the case of the. The police officers who were shot, because in 2014, that murder was officially attributed to the National Socialist Underground, the nsu, which is a neo Nazi terror cell. And apparently these two guys. I don't even want to say their names. I'm not even gonna give them that. But they fired the shots and this was actually part of a greater, you know, terror spree. They were on a terror attacks. And they also left the letters NSU sprayed on a nearby wall, but that hadn't been really clocked or like, connected at the time. And then when they found this woman's DNA, I mean, they were really on, like, this rabbit, goose, wild goose chase that obviously didn't not them where they needed.

[Em]

And, you know, all those people who got away with it for years were like, we made it. Like, bandits made it out.

[Christine]

Like, I will say a lot of them, they did have the person who did it, but they thought. Thought this woman was involved. Right. So they would be like. They would, like, have somebody in jail and go, like, who's your accomplice? And they'd be like, I'm not speaking to you. And they'd be like, wow, she's really got a hold on these people, you know? And meanwhile, I would have.

[Em]

I guess if I was one of those criminals, I would have been just shouting out random women's names every day just to keep them. Keep them guessing.

[Christine]

Yes, it was Heidi.

[Em]

Yeah. You know, Heidi. I. I don't have to say anything else. You go find Heidi and you tell me me. You know what I'm talking about.

[Christine]

She's in hiding.

[Em]

Well done.

[Christine]

I wasn't that good, but thank you. So that's the case. I know it's very. It's. Speaking of manic. It's kind of all over the place, but that's why I loved it. I. I just thought it was one of the wildest.

[Em]

Like, it was on par in terms of one of my favorite recent stories you've covered. The other one's sadder, but it was on par. Mystery kept me guessing. Wise as the guy who was in the hotel room and ended up getting shot.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Those were those, like, seemingly impossible cases where you're like, this just feels more impossible than it. Like, stranger than fiction almost.

[Em]

For the whole time, I'm just like, what the happened? Yeah, that. I really like those.

[Christine]

So, like, I. I think this story is wild, too, because it also gives so much. Much. It gives, like, a little bit of clarity, too, I think. Or. Or maybe like, you know, in the way that you say, take this with a grain of salt. Like, it adds a little nuance and context, because like I said back then, people were saying, DNA is everything. If your DNA is there, you did it. And, like, one example I wanted to bring up was this cab driver. I don't know what city it was. I believe this is in the US I think. But they found his DNA under this woman's fingernails who was killed, and he went to prison and. And eventually was exonerated because they figured out she had just happened to be in his cab, and that's how little it takes for DNA to transfer that she had some on under her fingernails just from being in his cab. And suddenly he's sent to prison. And so I think it gave a lot of people, like, pause, like, to say, okay, maybe DNA is not like the end all, be all answer to everything. You know, DNA can accidentally end up somewhere. Obviously.

[Em]

I was going to say it's just like how every time a new technology comes up, even today, it's like, oh, oh, well, this is the lawless land era.

[Christine]

Like, totally.

[Em]

What's going to have to happen for things to get regulated.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And I mean, even DNA had that situation. DNA analysis.

[Christine]

Yeah. And it was like, of course, it's easy for a jury to hear, hey, his DNA was under her fingernails. And he admitted she was in her cab. His cab that night. Yeah. Hey, that's pretty fucking convincing. Unfortunately, the lawyer spins it right and then it's like, what do you do? Yeah.

[Em]

A lot of innocent people, people probably had to go to jail on the first round of DNA analysis before just people started figuring out the, like, it's a factor, not the whole truth.

[Christine]

But the good part is that also it's exonerated so many people, you know?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So it has its, it has plenty of upsides.

[Em]

Great story.

[Christine]

Thank you. And, you know, now I think they're a little more careful with their supply supplies, with their bulk cotton swab supplies.

[Em]

Boy. Well, that was a great story, Christine.

[Christine]

Oh, well, thank you. I know it's a little chaotic, but.

[Em]

Do more of those. Those were neat. I. I like being confused. See, that's as my therapist would like to hear. That's why I like you, because you keep me on my toes. So.

[Christine]

Because I am a tornado. Yeah.

[Em]

Well, if you've got it in you, Christine, we've got a yappy hour to do.

[Christine]

Okay, Come join us. We will be at patreon.com atwdpodcast and I think we're gonna be setting up some pretty clear instructions for the extraterrestrials as to how to make my experience most comfortable and enjoyable aboard their rocket ship.

[Em]

I can't wait. Christine can probably, but I cannot.

[Christine]

And that's why we drink. This episode is brought to you by FX's alien Earth, the official podcast.

[Em]

Each week, host Adam Rogers is joined.

[Christine]

By guests, including the show's creator, cast and crew. In this exclusive companion podcast, they will.

[Em]

Explore story elements, deep dive into character.

[Christine]

Motivations, and offer an episode by episode.

[Em]

Behind the scenes breakdown of each terrifying.

[Christine]

Chapter in this new series. Search FX's alien Earth, wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Em]

Want to live better?

[Christine]

We got a lot of work to do.

[Em]

Join Chris Hemsworth in National Geographic's new Disney plus original series, Limitless Live Better Now. I'm diving head first into cutting edge.

[Christine]

Science to uncover three powerful secrets to living better. Right now. The growth that occurs through any challenging experience is really what we see. Chris Hemsworth stars in Limitless Live Better Now.

[Em]

Now streaming on Disney plus and Hulu.

[Christine]

It's showtime.