E449 Emotionally Damaged Water Bottles and Ghost Marriage Fights - featuring Creeps and Crimes

Summary

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And That's Why We Drink – Episode 449: Emotionally Damaged Water Bottles and Ghost Marriage Fights (feat. Creeps and Crimes)

Release Date: September 14, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer, Em Schulz
Guests: Taylor and Morgan (Creeps and Crimes)
Theme: Chilling ghost stories, true crime tales, and hilarious collaborative chaos

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Main Theme & Purpose

This lively episode embarks on a full-circle collaboration: "And That's Why We Drink" welcomes Taylor and Morgan from "Creeps and Crimes" to celebrate their joining the Parapods family. The episode is a two-part crossover: it covers the first half of a chilling paranormal case (The Smurl Family Haunting) and the first half of a brutal true crime (the Zantop murders). The second parts will be featured on Creeps and Crimes. The recording is marked by both professional admiration between the podcasters and an abundance of hilarious chaos, misadventures, and tangents on everything from emotional support water bottles to haunted studio setups.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intro and Podcasting Chaos

• [03:17] – [07:02]

• Taylor and Morgan recount the mayhem of pre-show tech issues.
• The hosts and guests bond over the personality types it takes to run co-host podcasts.
• Morgan: “I need you to go be Bob the Builder, I’m not even close to ready right now.” [03:25]

2. Full-Circle Fangirling

• [05:46] – [06:23]

• Taylor and Morgan explain their podcast started because they were super-fans of “And That’s Why We Drink,” making this collab a dream come true.

3. Collaborative Collab Structure

• [06:42] – [07:55]

• Break-down of the crossover: first halves of paranormal and crime stories are on ATWWD, second halves will continue on C&C.

4. Why We Drink Segment

• [08:07] – [36:40]

• Classic round-table: everyone shares why and what they’re drinking (from cider to water to iced tea).
• Tangents include:
  • [09:03] Morgan’s “emotional support” water bottle that lost its magic due to a dent
  • [10:11] DIY studio chaos—building studios themselves and mishaps like breaking drywall hours before recording
  • [19:00+] The saga of being “attacked” on Instagram by cross-country runners for an offhand comment, leading to a discussion of online negativity and resilience as content creators
  • [23:45] The hosts riff about trends like Labubu dolls and Sunny Angels
  • [32:21] Eva confesses to walking a dog marathon to win herself—and the dog—a literal medal

Notable Quotes

• “She’s so unbothered.” – Christine, on Morgan’s Zen energy amid chaos [04:53]
• “That is the best episode we’ve ever recorded because we used to be an audience member.” – Eva [36:34]
• “We talk about ourselves a lot on this show!” – Eva [01:33]

5. Podcast Background and Studios

• [15:24] – [17:18]

• All hosts marvel at the chaos, perseverance, and ultimate aesthetic victories of their self-made studios.
• Christine: “Em and I, when we’re chaotic, we end up with a plunger and Blues Clues furniture.” [16:58]

6. “Let’s Get Creepy” — Smurl Family Haunting (Part 1)

• [43:46] – [90:10]

• Taylor brings a highly detailed, chilling retelling of the Smurl Family Haunting in Pennsylvania, the real incident inspiring the next (possibly last) “Conjuring” movie.
• It covers:
  • The family’s move due to a historic flood (1972)
  • Early “old house quirks,” escalating to poltergeist-like terror: stains that won’t go away, tools vanishing, mysterious noises, foul smells, and electrical fires
  • Gradual, then violent paranormal escalation (scratches, throws, mimic voices, attacks)
  • The family’s Catholic background and how the haunting targeted all members, especially the women and even their dog, Simon
  • The family’s eventual turn to famed paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren
• Hints at the controversies and “demonology” coming in Part 2 on Creeps and Crimes.

Notable Quotes

• “We’re just going to leave the white hole in the wall and fix it later. Seven months later, I took my makeup to it. And that is why we drink.” – Morgan [14:43]
• “I also want to hear your cult story…” – Christine, on religious backgrounds and trauma [59:52]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [53:05] – The “mystery” of the Smurl family twins and newspaper mistakes
• [61:31] – Paranormal activity ramps up after the in-laws move next door
• [78:42] – False voices, winged sounds, and ghostly apparitions
• [85:40] – The haunting becomes violent and sexual, leading to desperate intervention

7. True Crime Segment — The Zantop Murders (Part 1)

• [94:10] – [156:27]

• Morgan tells the story of HALP and Suzanne Zantop, beloved Dartmouth professors brutally murdered in 2001.
• Delivers a cozy New England setting and a wholesome pre-murder portrait: their Saturday tea ritual, cookouts (complete with academic intimidation and accidental flip-flops), and their respected status.
• Roxanna, a family friend, discovers the bloody scene; police realize it’s a targeted attack.
• Investigation details:
  • Use of rare military-style knives (SOG Seal 2000) and knife sheaths
  • Meticulous footprints and evidence gathering—praise for the investigators’ tight-lipped, thorough work
  • Trails go cold until the discovery that the murder weapons were bought by 16-year-old James Parker in neighboring Vermont only weeks before
• Christine will cover the shocking conclusion (including the full motive, teenage killers, etc.) in Part 2 on C&C.

Notable Quotes

• “The only thing missing from this home was Haff’s wallet, with $320 inside. Yet the place was filled with incredibly valuable pieces of art, jewelry, books…” – Morgan [137:47]
• “Still though, the company handed over a list of any and all shops that carried these knives; this left them with a list of 5,000 sales in the area.” – Morgan [153:38]
• “The owner was like, ‘I had only sold 84…’ As they’re scanning the list, one of the sales stands out—16-year-old James Parker…” [156:15]

8. Community, Camaraderie, and Self-reflection

• [105:08] – [109:24]

• Hilarious and relatable asides about feeling like the “jester” at fancy academic parties, being out-of-place among high-achieving friends, and the value of bringing personality to any group.
• “Everyone needs a town crier. I’m here to tell you the gossip.” – Eva [105:08]

9. Outro Logistics & Crossover Hype

• [156:27] – [162:27]

• Christine and the group tease the two-part format—listeners must catch the case conclusions on Creeps and Crimes.
• Sign-off is a flurry of bloopers (tech hiccups, TikTok Hunger Games algorithm jokes, logistics), with collective nostalgia about seeing one’s heroes become friends and eventual collaborators.

Notable Quotes

• “To all the listeners out there, this could be you one day. Look at me.” – Morgan [162:10]

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Memorable Moments / Quotes

• [19:56] Taylor: “Two girls that peaked in high school now have a mic in their hands.” (re: Instagram backlash)
• [22:57] Eva: “Let me say it again. I’m walking a marathon. …To keep him alive and healthy, I need a medal. Sue me.”
• [60:52] Christine: “The comeback of three-pronged scratches… like, that’s when it gets real.”
• [70:21] Taylor: “…I used to have a flipper, fake teeth, and his cousin is like, I’ll give you $50 if you eat that watermelon rind… Both of my front teeth snapped off at the beach.”
• [105:08] Eva: “I have friends who are lawyers and forensic pathologists. And I’m like, anyway, the ghost that I saw the other day…”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:51 Christine introduces Creeps and Crimes, establishing partnership and podcast admiration
• 08:06 First “Why We Drink” roundtable
• 09:59 Studio self-makeovers, DIY chaos, water bottle woes
• 19:00+ Instagram drama about running and resiliency on the Internet
• 43:46 Paranormal story: The Smurl Family Haunting (Taylor)
• 61:31 Mom-in-law moves in, ghost activity intensifies
• 78:42 Strange voices, mimics, escalation of haunting
• 85:40 Assaults, dog violence, and the arrival of the Warrens
• 94:12 True Crime: Zantop Professors murder case (Morgan)
• 110:42 Professorial couple’s dinner parties, life in Aetna, New Hampshire
• 118:27 Roxanna discovers the crime scene
• 125:09 Crime scene forensics, murder weapon clues
• 156:27 Episode transition—where Part 2 will continue on Creeps and Crimes

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Tone & Language

The episode balances hilarious, candid chaos (think derailed conversations on TikTok, ADHD medal quests, emotional water bottles, and cult upbringings) with expert, immersive storytelling on both the paranormal and true crime sides. Hosts and guests swerve from self-deprecating and raunchy (“are you my dick right now?” [131:44]) to empathetic and thoughtful, maintaining signature energy and warmth.

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For New Listeners: Why This Episode Is a Must-Listen

• Showcases the best of both podcasts: uproarious personality and deeply-researched, chilling storytelling
• Tons of funny, highly-relatable banter among friends and fellow podcasters
• Unique “two-halves” structure for each case—teasing but rewarding for listeners willing to follow both feeds
• Candid insight on podcasting, creative process, online haters, and the fun/disasters of building something from scratch

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To hear the conclusions:

• The Smurl Family Haunting—catch Part 2 (the Warren investigation!) on Creeps and Crimes
• The Zantop Murders—Christine wraps up the shocking case in Part 2 on Creeps and Crimes

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Creeps and Crimes listeners:
Get ready for more raucous collab energy, and see which podcast’s chaos code reigns supreme.
ATWWD audience:
Don’t miss this celebration of community, crossovers, and the purest “fan-to-friend” podcast magic.

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That’s why we drink!

Transcript

[Morgan]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you.

[Taylor]

Know my husband Dax, then you also.

[Morgan]

Know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Christine]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Morgan]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your van or license, and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and.

[Taylor]

Pay us this afternoon.

[Morgan]

Bye bye, Truckee.

[Taylor]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[Christine]

Hello, other Truckee.

[Morgan]

Sell your car with Carvana today.

[Taylor]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Eva]

When we were looking for for someone to hire, when we needed help with things as simple as doing our emails or our social media, we did not know where to start. And back then, we were just lucky that we found Eva. But the future of hiring looks even brighter because ZipRecruiter's latest tools and features help speed up finding the right people for your roles so you save valuable time. And now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Drink Finding Eva was the best, the best thing we could have ever done. But the fact that there's even more tools, I mean, instead of finding her in 24 hours, we would have found her in one hour.

[Christine]

We don't know. But I don't know. The Zip recruiter has really changed the game for us and I'm sure it will for you, as it has for many businesses.

[Eva]

Yeah, use ZipRecruiter and save time. Hiring four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. We are exactly a ringing endorsement to that.

[Christine]

And if you go to ziprecruiter.com drink right now, you can try it for free again, that ZipRecruiter.com drink ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire.

[Eva]

If there's one thing Christine and I are very good at, is yapping. We talk about everything. We talk about obviously true crime. We talk about spooky stuff on the show, we talk about silly stuff on the show. And we also talk about ourselves a lot on the show. And one big component of both of us is our mental health and our journeys with mental health. I know I talk about ADHD more than anyone is ever asking me to. I know one thing that Christine has dealt with in her life is O C D. And a lot of people deal with it. There's quite a range. But some people when it comes to ocd, I mean, it can really be rough. OCD is much more than just the stereotypes. It's a serious and highly misunderstood condition. That causes people to get stuck in a cycle of stressful, unwanted thoughts and repetitive physical behaviors. There's a lot of times where people will joke about it or make light of it, but it can also be really, really rough to live with. And not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively. OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called ERP, or exposure and response prevention. And with no CD, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD. No CD has helped Christine. It can help you, too. No CD therapy is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. And if you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with with their team to learn more. That's N C D.com to schedule a free call and learn more.

[Christine]

How soothing after what just occurred in some of my very last.

[Morgan]

After the most chaotic moments of. Did you guys hear us?

[Taylor]

I mean, when I tell you that is a typical pre recording for us.

[Morgan]

That's why I was on Face.

[Taylor]

I was like, oh, we'll figure it out. Taylor will get it.

[Morgan]

She told you that when she got here. I was like, I need you to go be Bob the Builder. I'm not even close to ready right now.

[Christine]

This is so, like. I mean, we just hit record, like, halfway through it. We were like, we got to get this on camera. And then all of a sudden, Taylor pulls. Hello, everyone. Let me just introduce our beautiful guests here before we get any further into the weeds. But we are. And that's why I drink. And we've brought our friends, creeps and crimes, Taylor and Morgan to the show today.

[Taylor]

Hello, Hel.

[Christine]

And Morgan's wearing her cute little parapods.

[Taylor]

That's right. I couldn't.

[Christine]

Taylor is not. Because she's showing her beautiful tan shoulders.

[Morgan]

Sweaty.

[Christine]

Yeah. And there. There's been some, like, some mayhem happening on their end. We turned on the zoom, and they couldn't hear us, so we were like, well, this is fun. We can just, like, make voices for them and, like, kind of, like make, like, a fun little game of it. And Taylor was running fat. Like, she would, like, stop, then, like, fix, like, her lip liner so you, like, run and then, like, come back and then put a hair roller in. I mean, it was remarkable. I've never seen, like, it.

[Eva]

You were accomplishing a tasks all at once. And I.

[Christine]

And Morgan was so calm. Like, I don't know what Was. The whole thing just felt so peaceful.

[Eva]

I feel like every podcast that I've seen, at least if there's a twosome, everyone's got, like, their. Their set way. Like, I'm definitely the Morgan of the situation where I'm like, if I even get in Christine's way right now, like, I'll probably be more of a problem. Like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna let Christine handle it. And then I just watched Morgan go, Taylor's got it.

[Morgan]

We're good.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

I really.

[Taylor]

I sat here exactly like this.

[Morgan]

She does. She does even move. She's so unbothered. I.

[Christine]

And then Morgan goes, your mouse is on 4%. And Taylor, are you my dick right now? I was like, we. And then Em goes, we should start recording this immediately.

[Morgan]

Click record right now.

[Taylor]

Well, you guys are welcome for your live studio sitcom.

[Christine]

I really was. It really felt like it. Yeah, Laugh track and everything. It was really good.

[Eva]

Anyway, yeah, thank you guys for. For being here. This is your first time on. And that's why I drink as a part of parapods.

[Morgan]

I know. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited for you guys who don't know us or haven't ever listened to our show before. The first thing that you'll learn very quickly is that the whole reason why we started this podcast is because we were so obsessed with Emma Christine.

[Christine]

So I still can't believe that. That's still so crazy to me.

[Eva]

It's very sweet.

[Morgan]

And so this is, like, the biggest, like, accomplishment that we've ever had. So we are literally geeking out Fan girls.

[Christine]

We've created, like, a full circle. Like, fan girl, I think we have manifested way and DM'd you, and you were like, why are you doing this? Like, why are you crazy? And I'm like, no, I just. I want you.

[Taylor]

What are you doing here?

[Christine]

What are you doing here?

[Morgan]

Get out of here.

[Christine]

Actually, you know, you guys really undersell it. You guys are kick ass podcasters. You do Creeps and Crimes and favorite shows to ever listen to. I just. You're on my main rotation, okay?

[Taylor]

My bear pod heart is out of my chest.

[Christine]

Your giant vinyl heart. Yeah.

[Eva]

Well, to celebrate that Creeps and Crimes is now part of parapods. We thought that it would be really neat. And by we, I mean Eva. This was. This is all a genius. A genius moment out of Eva's brain.

[Christine]

She's like the marionette, you know, person behind the scenes pulling all the strings.

[Morgan]

Pulling the strings is that we would.

[Eva]

Do a collab of sorts. Where Creeps and crimes is coming on, obviously, too. And that's why we drank, to cover the first halves of a creep and a crime story. And then we're going to head over to Creeps and crimes in a future episode and finish it out. Christine and I are going to cover the story. The. The rest of the stories, so.

[Christine]

Okay. I thought we were doing different stories now.

[Morgan]

So me and Christine. Me and Christine flipped. They're on the same. Oh, they're on the same.

[Taylor]

Em and I are perfect. Eva.

[Morgan]

Okay. Yeah. Eva. Sorry.

[Christine]

Don't you suck up to Eva. Eva. Morgan started it.

[Morgan]

She did. Because.

[Christine]

More.

[Morgan]

But. But of course, these two were like, yes, that is no problem. We can. No problem at all. We will handle this. We'll do this together.

[Christine]

We're.

[Morgan]

You're like, okay.

[Christine]

We're like, actually, we'll do exactly what you said, but we're gonna do it completely opposite and much more than it should be.

[Eva]

First time I'm hearing this. Okay. Yeah. No. Morgan and I think figured it out.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Y' all had no idea.

[Christine]

Listen, I got a text. Eva says everyone is perfect. Well, she's just too nice of a mom.

[Morgan]

She's being too nice.

[Christine]

She's lying to all of us. I think there's only two people here who are maybe on the same page, and the rest of us are just. Hi, Morgan. I won't say. I won't name names.

[Eva]

All right, well, I guess to. To start it off, since we're in. And that's why. Morgan and Taylor, any reasons this week why you drink and what do you drink? What do you drink?

[Taylor]

Also, I didn't practice this. You go first.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Christine]

It would be hilarious if you did practice it. Like, like, fully rehearsed it.

[Morgan]

We. We had, like, an entire. Entire, like, theater performance waiting for you.

[Christine]

And was part of it you running back and forth and putting chairs? Like, was that part of it?

[Morgan]

Just. Jack, can you please clip that in right here?

[Taylor]

Your mouse on 4%.

[Morgan]

Are you.

[Eva]

Can you hear us?

[Morgan]

Get out and come back now.

[Christine]

I'm stuck on the floor. Oh, there she is.

[Morgan]

It's connected. And I still can't hear that.

[Christine]

Okay, give me the confirmation number of your rental car. I'll type it in.

[Morgan]

They're just talking if you can't hear them. It's like we're in an exhibit at the zoo.

[Eva]

This is.

[Christine]

The bangs are in the way. Jesus Christ. Wow. Yeah. That's why you drink. Very good reason. You drink water because you lost so much sweat and electrolytes.

[Morgan]

I did. I was Sweating so much. I have to drink my ice water out of my new water bottle.

[Taylor]

I got emotional support.

[Morgan]

Yes. My new emotional support. But I did drop where she got a little boo boo. And all of a sudden she's lost all of her emotional value to me. So I'm having to, like, really?

[Christine]

Okay. In some ways. Yeah. We do all connect with that.

[Morgan]

I have to go get, like, some yellow, like, nail polish and put on her because she's just, like, a little bothersome to me.

[Eva]

But it's just like you, you're constantly color matching all of your stuff with other things you already own.

[Christine]

Yeah. Taylor is color match her wall. I mean, it's a whole thing, honestly.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Eva]

I was going say, for those who don't know, please tell them about your wall.

[Morgan]

So this wall, when we were like, beautiful studio. This is a beautiful, beautiful wall that if you saw it in real life, you'd be like, wow, good, girls. You did a good job. It's like on the head. Yeah. You're, like, done your preschool, like, such a beautiful painting. Like, great job. Yeah, that's.

[Christine]

I actually tell Leona her paintings are unique and interesting because I'm like, I don't want to be like, they're perfect and beautiful, stunning. I want to get your hopes up, you know, Like, I don't get. You get your head inflated here.

[Morgan]

So me and Morgan actually, like, one of our rules that we have ever since we started the podcast is like, any studio we want, we build ourselves. We don't ask for help. We. We do it together. She hate.

[Taylor]

First of all, I'm like, why can't we just hire a painter? Why can't we hire.

[Morgan]

It's a labor of love. Like, it's like painting. Your baby loves it. Yes.

[Christine]

And it's the labor of love that Morgan loves.

[Morgan]

So happy about it every time. She's happy because at the end of the day, we always get whatever she wants from Doordash.

[Taylor]

I'm there for the doordash.

[Christine]

Yeah. I do.

[Taylor]

I am the meal decider.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, that's huge.

[Eva]

Very important.

[Christine]

Hey, M. This is starting to sound a little, like, freakishly similar to us.

[Eva]

It hurts my feelings a little bit.

[Christine]

I can see I'm getting a little concerned about how.

[Eva]

It's like I'm hearing our own diary out loud.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So me and Morgan went and we bought, like, a bunch.

[Christine]

We.

[Morgan]

We wanted this, like, three dimensional look. Right. But, like, you're looking at Pinterest and you're like, how are me and you with a communications degree in A kidney. What do you do again?

[Taylor]

Kinesiology.

[Morgan]

A kidney. Chesney. Degree.

[Christine]

I have a degree in country and a minor in pronunciation from the University of Tennessee.

[Morgan]

So she. We were like, how are we gonna build this? So then we were like, look, I had a shower idea, and it did have to do with my weed pen being in the shower with me.

[Eva]

It really is Christine.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Wow.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Morgan]

I know. It's like looking in a mirror. So we're like, okay, I've got this idea. Let's go to Home Depot, and we're gonna go feel around, like, at the, you know, like, card, not cardboard areas.

[Taylor]

We really did feel them.

[Morgan]

And we're like, let's just see which one feels like an acoust. Also is super light that we could do it. So we found these, like, almost cork boards, but they're thicker than cork boards.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Morgan]

And they have that, like, soft acoustic side, which is actually on the front. We bought it. We bought a jigsaw that we had no business buying. Oh.

[Taylor]

Had no safety at all.

[Morgan]

We'd be like.

[Taylor]

And we had no, like, board to, like, set it up on. So we'd be holding it. The blade would be coming right towards our hands.

[Eva]

I know Taylor, AKA Christine, was in charge of this project for sure.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Morgan wasn't particularly concerned. I feel like Em would have called the police on me at this point, because m. Hands are. Em's not gonna put.

[Taylor]

We were laughing so hard. It was crazy.

[Morgan]

It was, like, midnight, and we were out in my backyard. We had just moved into this house, too. So none of these neighbors knew me. They were like, is that chainsaw? Like, right? So we cut out these very.

[Taylor]

We had two. We had two uneven stools holding the board. So when you would cut it, it would go like this.

[Morgan]

So Morgan was laying on it just.

[Christine]

To give, like, a sawing, and she's laying on it like a magic trick.

[Eva]

Like, this is saw.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, right. Like, literal saw.

[Morgan]

So anyways, as you could tell, that took all of the life out of us. And then also, we decided we were going to lime wash this room. Got carried away. It end up looking like a house. Like, like, not. Wait, hold on.

[Christine]

Not.

[Morgan]

Hold on. Not like the. The house with the W. Like, with an H. And so we were like, okay, we can't. We're like, how are we going to do. Fix this? So then we had to blend the wall out, and we got the things up, because on the back side of this that you can't see are actually mattress toppers from Joanne Fabric that Was even worse.

[Christine]

I literally, okay, 10 out of 10.

[Taylor]

And that brought it forward, like, to.

[Morgan]

Fit the lights under, to have the lights underneath it. So then we finally got all this done and we're trying to set up these. These little 3D printed Taylor. No, that doesn't say Taylor.

[Christine]

What does that say?

[Taylor]

Creep singer.

[Christine]

Made by Taylor.

[Eva]

Project by Taylor.

[Taylor]

Yeah, Taylor Shower Thoughts incorporated.

[Morgan]

And anyways, we finally get these things up. We put them on wrong. We put them on too low. So rip them off the wall like five minutes before we're set to record our first episode of season five. And a big chunk of the wall comes out, like the drywall and everything.

[Christine]

Oh, geez.

[Eva]

Oh, God.

[Taylor]

Brand new house.

[Morgan]

And so we. Yeah, brand new house. Just.

[Eva]

I can just hear the deep side that came out of Morgan being like, please don't make me do anything else, please.

[Taylor]

No, I'm like, wait, it's nine o'.

[Morgan]

Clock. I should be going home. At that point though, Morgan actually was clenching her butt.

[Eva]

Whole thing.

[Morgan]

And Taylor's gonna run through the wall. Like, Taylor's gonna rip the whole wall. It was.

[Taylor]

It was a very difficult time period.

[Morgan]

So then we said, said, let's leave that white hole in the wall and we'll fix it later. Well, seven months later, I got tired of looking at it, so I took my makeup to it. And that. And that is why we drink. Yes.

[Eva]

That's why you now are gonna also color match your dented water bottle. Because this seems to be the way.

[Christine]

That's right.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Eva]

Perfect.

[Christine]

Wow. Okay. It's so powerful. I mean, really. Because, like, Em and I have set up various studios to use. To not use Covid.

[Morgan]

To. To.

[Christine]

We. We set them up at. We let studios set them up for us. And then all of a sudden, we were sitting in the same chairs as Nick Viall and we were like, this is a weird vibe.

[Taylor]

Wait a second.

[Christine]

So that's why we drink files. Yeah. Yes. There were like very weird iterations of our studio spaces. And now I just feel like. Like I have this just random empty ass shelf behind me. And I've kind of given up. But I am working on it. I want to make like a cool, cute new space. But M has a new house and has the background. Well, we've actually used your background as content, which is its own kind of gift. Yeah.

[Eva]

For Patreon. For Patreon.

[Christine]

We read like the menus. Old studio menus. Well.

[Eva]

Oh, yeah. So my. My house used to be owned by Warner Brothers. The whole street used to be owned by Warner Brothers. And it was like they used this to rent out to vaudeville actors when they would come into town to film. So it's supposed to be a nod. They're like the old commissary menus from all the studios around here. But.

[Christine]

So I'm gonna read them and decide like what jellied dessert we want or like jellied breakfast dessert. Jellied fish.

[Eva]

It's going over here. This, we read this one yesterday for Patreon. It's the paramount one from 1956. And one of the desserts is like what, jellied tomato sauce or something.

[Christine]

Oh my God. Clarified tomatoes. Essence of clarified tomatoes. I don't know. It was. Anyway, where do you find those?

[Eva]

Vintagemenuart.com they're like not a sponsor. They're just one of my favorite websites in the whole world.

[Christine]

It's actually very cool website. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Morgan]

And did you go to the library?

[Eva]

Like I actually just went to 1956 and stole it from Paramount.

[Christine]

Went to the commissary and took it. But yeah, so I'm just always in awe of your studios spaces because even though they are kind of chaotic, like Em and I, when we're chaotic, we end up with like a plunger for. And some blues clues furniture. That happened also. But like I feel like yours is much more like aesthetic at the end of the day. Like Em and I are trying for that.

[Eva]

But then that was the goal originally.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

Eight years. We're like whatever. The people who want to be here are here.

[Christine]

You know, that's kind of how we're.

[Taylor]

Feeling about this next season. Yeah, we're like, we're not even putting as much, nearly as much effort as we have been. We're trying to.

[Christine]

I'm disappointing.

[Taylor]

Reduce, reuse and recycle old studio stuff into. Into the next one.

[Christine]

I can't wait for this. I can't wait for the letters to just say Taylor next time. Just like nothing but.

[Eva]

And then like Morgan and small ransom.

[Morgan]

Notes underneath it or something in the bottom right corner.

[Eva]

Well, Morgan, why do you drink and what do you drink?

[Taylor]

Why do I drink? Well, I drink this week because my Instagram, our Instagram has been blowing up with.

[Morgan]

Oh God.

[Taylor]

Run Talk. We posted this little snippet about cross country and we.

[Morgan]

Oh geez.

[Taylor]

I saw the runners of entire United States of America in our comment section group and oh, I haven't seen this.

[Eva]

What happened?

[Taylor]

Well, they love to tell you how much they did.

[Morgan]

And we're getting body shamed left and right.

[Taylor]

Wait, we are getting body shamed. Wait, we're also getting. Oh, my gosh. As soon as I saw these two girls, like, absolute idiots. Or what's your career?

[Morgan]

Podcasting. It's just what you. We're like, wait. We're like, wait a second. We aren't even talking bad about country run.

[Christine]

They literally just said, like, that they didn't.

[Taylor]

That, like, why would you never try?

[Christine]

Like, that's.

[Morgan]

No, we. We literally were like, y' all are crazy, and we respect the hell out of you because literally no one trains like you. Then swimmers, by the way, we've said.

[Christine]

Way worse things about running than that. Okay. And I never had runners, like, come at us.

[Eva]

What is it you said? I don't. I missed that part.

[Morgan]

It was.

[Taylor]

It was a clip it and it was. We were talking about, like, high school activities or something. And I was like, you know what? I would never be caught dead doing is cross country. And Taylor's like, I would never be caught doing CR country. And I was like, they ran all the time. I'd start. This was my first mistake. I'd start cheer practice, cancel cheerleading and cheer practice, and they'd still be running. And Taylor's like, I'd be driving to school. I'd be leaving school, and they're still running.

[Morgan]

Did they even go to class?

[Taylor]

They were like a school of fish out there. They're like, that's crazy.

[Christine]

Cross country runners.

[Taylor]

How are you mentally today? Is what we asked, like, we hope you have an Olympic medal.

[Eva]

And they answered. They said, not good.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Or they'll be like, I'm doing fine because I'm running 10 miles a day. I'm like, huh, Honey?

[Christine]

Nobody believes.

[Taylor]

Gathered in the, like, swimming community, they're like, try being a swimmer or try being a wrestler. We're like, guys, we didn't even say anything about your sport.

[Christine]

And also, like, you can try being whatever the you want.

[Taylor]

Two girls that peaked in high school now have a mic in their hands.

[Christine]

And we're like, okay, anybody, like, if anybody three years into our podcast or however many years, like, said that, I probably just wither and die now I'm like, yeah, whatever the fuck. But, like, a few years ago, that probably would have liked, like, like, brought me to my. I would have been, like, devastated.

[Eva]

What are the odds that they're telling on themselves that all of the jocks in high school, like, are still ganging up, like, to defend each other? They're all weirdly all, like, testosterone up in some way? They're like, we run. It's like, okay. Like, relax.

[Taylor]

No, really, really, though, like, it's. The comments have been crazy, and that is why I drink.

[Morgan]

Yeah. They will literally be like. Like, well, just seeing this. It's 5:00am, ran 10 miles. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Like, it's like, I'm happy for you.

[Eva]

Just saw this at noon. I'm happy. Whoops.

[Christine]

I wish it could be me. It's just not. It's just.

[Morgan]

I know. I'm, like, so proud of them. And that was the whole point of our conversation, was like, we were like, dude, we wish you the best. We.

[Christine]

It's like, the time.

[Morgan]

Olympic medal.

[Christine]

Yes. And you deserve one because you're getting up at 5am to run. But, like, when I. About Eva's archery, which I didn't. About it, I just said I would never do that because it sounds so mean. But, like, I'm like, it's just. Just the least, like, besides cross country, the least, like, interesting thing to do to me. I don't know why. There's just, like, a weird mental block. Yeah. And, like, we didn't have the Archers association coming after us. We talk about running. I think maybe our audience is just like, yeah, we don't do sports either.

[Eva]

I don't know.

[Taylor]

I mean, well, our audience, that's kind of the same, but it went beyond our audience, and it's in, like, high school.

[Morgan]

So we got, like.

[Taylor]

We've got, like, the Rizzlers. You know, that's the youth.

[Christine]

You get the youth. Eyeballs.

[Taylor]

Unfit, unfit, unfit. Like, I was like, okay, thanks for spamming our video. Thanks for the engagement.

[Christine]

Go back into math class, run another mile. I just. Okay. It just makes me mad because I'm like, you know what? Give everybody a break.

[Taylor]

Well, have you ever. This is what I don't understand. Have you ever came across a video where you feel so strongly about your life, like, oh, my God, I'm just gonna ream this person to death.

[Morgan]

Like, I just don't.

[Taylor]

I have never done that in my life.

[Christine]

No, I mean, unless it was something, like, really mean about, like, my brother or something, like, super personal, but, like, not even then. It's like, okay, you're unhinged. I don't care.

[Morgan]

You know?

[Christine]

But, like, nothing that, like, personally offended me to a point that I felt like I needed to make a stand, you know?

[Morgan]

No.

[Taylor]

Yeah, me neither.

[Morgan]

I'm just not.

[Eva]

I don't get it.

[Morgan]

I don't either.

[Taylor]

I'm not.

[Christine]

I mean, unless I'm, like, a big deal, but, like, not about, like, cross country. No.

[Morgan]

I mean, I Don't care.

[Christine]

People. People complain. I got a labubu the other day. Try being someone with a labuhu, and we think I get away with any sort of. Sorry.

[Taylor]

So you have the. The demon Labubu.

[Morgan]

You have zenu demon.

[Christine]

I need you to know that the demon lives in. In the house. And it's a problem because everyone's like, is that for your daughter? I'm like, huh?

[Morgan]

No, babe.

[Taylor]

Yep, she asked for it.

[Christine]

Now I'm gonna have all the Labu boo haters on. See, I'm just trying to join the ranks of, like, people with haters.

[Taylor]

Are you go clip it to your jeans.

[Christine]

You know what?

[Eva]

Please say that.

[Christine]

And my brother actually said, I don't want to walk next to you. And I said, okay, fine. So I said, I wish it was.

[Taylor]

I wish it was clipped to your fit, like right now.

[Morgan]

No, I wish you had low rise jeans on with them clipped on. A beaded necklace, like, hanging down from it in a lanyard beside it. And I'd be like, and we're so back, bitch. That is it.

[Christine]

That is the one I so at. The way I was won over is that Eva has one with a T shirt that's a. Says, has a rainbow and says ice. And it's like the most evil looking boo boo. And it has these like, demonic red eyes. And I'm like, I need one. Oh, they're so funny. And like, Eva said ice, and then she ended up giving it to a drag queen at, like, a show. And it was a whole thing. And I was like, I'm. I'm on board now, I think with this. I don't know why.

[Eva]

I love a novelty and I love a trend, but there are moments where I realize that maybe I am getting older because I saw boo boos and I went, I just know that's not gonna happen for me. And I'm fine with that. I think about, okay, my 20 year.

[Christine]

Old sister makes fun of me for, like, excessively makes fun of me for it. So it's like, I know. I know what I'm doing, but I.

[Eva]

Mean, I collect Pokemon cards. We've all got a weird thing. But like, I saw Lu Booboo and I went, I'm not even gonna entertain that one. I think I'm good.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I can't get to the Labubu because I still haven't gotten a Sony angel yet. And that is.

[Eva]

What the hell is that? Okay, okay.

[Taylor]

So that's what me. I'm like, that is a waste of money.

[Morgan]

That. No, it's not.

[Taylor]

You told me about this. I was like.

[Morgan]

Morgan was like, no. And I was like, come on. We can use a company credit card and use it in a picture in one.

[Eva]

What is it called to look it up?

[Morgan]

It's called a Sunny Angel.

[Taylor]

It's a S O N N. Yeah.

[Morgan]

I think it's S. And they're like, these little Nikki babies.

[Eva]

I'm okay with these. These are cute.

[Morgan]

You, like, put them on.

[Christine]

You're like, same app. It's the same website, the same company. Yeah.

[Eva]

Oh, just a different little critter.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

But, like, I want to find one.

[Taylor]

Or wait, Labuu and Sunny angel are the same.

[Morgan]

They're both, like, parent company.

[Taylor]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Christine]

In the Pop Heart app, you can go in.

[Taylor]

So they have an angel and they're demon.

[Christine]

Oh, yes. Correct.

[Eva]

Fun.

[Morgan]

Interesting. You got it. Yeah, I. Well, like, the fun of it is that you find one, like, organically.

[Christine]

Oh, wait, like, no, it's not in.

[Morgan]

A store for a Sunny angel specifically. And, well, this is because I watch these, like, two YouTubers and this is, like, how they do it. And, like, that's the only reason I've ever wanted one. And they, like, find that they live in London. So, like, they're in all these stores over there. So they, you know, will walk into a store, whatever, and, like, one will, like, call out to them and they'll go get it. And you, like, don't know what it is until, like, you know what the, like, the blind box box, the vibe of it is. But then you, like, have no idea which one you get. So then they, like, rub it and they're like, I don't know. And then they'll, like, like, be on their mic, like, creak it open and pull it out.

[Christine]

See, this is exactly how the Labubu happens. Yes, exactly. Although I just realized they are on different companies. Sorry. But popmart does have a very similar baby with, like, vegetables on his head and stuff.

[Morgan]

Oh, I definitely thought they were for sure the same. Maybe they are sold in all the same places.

[Christine]

It could be. I think it's all just kind of the same, like, issue that we're all having of, like, I need something to distract me from, something to make me happy. Some sort of joy, Some dopamine. Hit, please, God.

[Morgan]

Well, why do you two drink? We didn't get to ask you yet.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. I also don't rehearse this.

[Morgan]

This is your show.

[Christine]

I know. I never.

[Eva]

It's literally our job.

[Christine]

Never prepared. Oh, because I Hosted a playdate this morning before we recorded, and it was very fun, but also, like, two little girls with very strong opinions and very bold attitudes. Difficult to.

[Eva]

Period.

[Christine]

Get in the middle.

[Taylor]

Period.

[Christine]

Get in the middle of that. So I was really playing a lot of offense. Defense. I don't know. I was. I was playing a lot of, like, mental gymnastics, trying to get them to sort of were.

[Eva]

Were they headstrong and on the same team, or were they, like, butting?

[Christine]

No, they would. They bump heads a lot. So her name's Haley and it's Leona's best, and she's, like, 10 months older, so Haley is, like, often. But then Haley came to our house, so Leona felt a little bit like, hey, I get to say what to do now.

[Eva]

Rule the roost.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And so I think there was a little bit of. But then they'd be like, how about we play this for five minutes? And then we go over there for five minutes. Mommy, will you set a timer for five minutes? And I'm like, oh, my Lord Jesus. Okay.

[Morgan]

She's so organized.

[Christine]

I know. I was gonna say, I actually feel like I could complain about it, but. But honestly, it was, like, way chiller than I thought. And I was like, wait, for once I don't have to play, like, doctor and restaurant. Like, I can just sit here and drink coffee and, like, sorry, Haley, enjoy my labus on my PopMart app. While Haley and Leona just kind of figured themselves out. It was great. So. So it was.

[Eva]

And what do you drink when.

[Christine]

Oh, I'm drinking an Angry Orchard. It was mostly I was just going to be drinking water, but then I watched Taylor kind of just doing, like, that, and it got really overwhelmed and exhausted while just watching it, and I thought, I need to drink. So I got an Angry Orchard again, which a sponsor. I don't know how much of this has been aired yet, but basically we got Angry Orchard as a sponsor, and then, like, really soon, we got. At least I. I think Eva did you or Eva. We got sent these huge boxes of Angry Orchard, and so it feels like I'm just buying more and more Angry Orchard, but I promise you, I still have, like, 36 cans and 36 bottles left.

[Morgan]

I think that was Morgan's go to drink.

[Christine]

It was.

[Taylor]

I loved an Angry Orchard.

[Morgan]

And I still love an Angry Orchard. Yeah.

[Taylor]

Even if we go to, like, breweries or something, I'm always getting excited.

[Christine]

Okay, well, they're the best to work with, and we love them, and not just because they're paying us money for sponsorship. It helps. That's true. But no, we do love them. And so, yeah, we'll. We'll let them. We'll say, hey, give them the old par treatment. Go send Morgan, like, 36 bottles of Angry Orchard, please.

[Morgan]

Seriously, the. You guys remember when they released the. Or, like, the pink Angry Orchard? Oh, my God. Me and Morgan, we. That was when we lived together. We ran to the store and we got some, and we, like, put them in the refrigerator, and we were watching, like, creepy crimey stuff. Like, I want to say it was like Hill House because it was around, like, Halloween and stuff. Yeah. And when all that came out, and that, as you guys may or may not know, is. Was the very beginning of Creeps and crimes was our college apartment living.

[Christine]

Oh, they're right.

[Morgan]

Oh, watching Creepy crimey on the tv.

[Taylor]

You know, the Haunting of Hill House was just ranked, like, one of the, like, top Netflix performing shows ever.

[Christine]

Well, it was. It was like Covid, right? Like, it was like. Or was it.

[Taylor]

No, it was. It was 20.

[Morgan]

It was prior. Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. Okay. The one that came out during COVID was that.

[Morgan]

Was.

[Taylor]

Was that the Bly Manor or something like that?

[Morgan]

Yes, yes. And there was another one, Midnight Mass, which.

[Taylor]

That one, that was the one with.

[Morgan]

Like, the vampires, right?

[Taylor]

We're like these demon flying things.

[Morgan]

I was actually saying the other day because, you know, after that, they just kind of were like, all right. And then now we're done with that, so we'll never release another one.

[Christine]

House of Usher. That one was really good too.

[Morgan]

I can't remember if I watched that one.

[Christine]

It's like an Edgar Allan Poe, like, but it's the same, like, creepy, haunting, like murder.

[Morgan]

See, that's what I need.

[Taylor]

You know what I'm actually watching right now, guys? It's Once upon a time.

[Christine]

She has a scene.

[Eva]

Wait, I love that show.

[Taylor]

From, like, BC, like 2010.

[Eva]

What a scare reference. I love that.

[Christine]

I don't know, Nick Lachey vehicle or something.

[Taylor]

But no, I'm so obsessed with it right now. Like, I love the intertwining of the fairy tale world with, like, modern day.

[Eva]

I love. I thought it was. I thought it was so smart. I was like, what's like Snow White? And like, it was like. It was like a bunch of fairy. Fairy tales all clashed together. And I was like, hell yeah, brother. You know how you say, you know, I'm very happy that someone's still watching that in my mind. Not a soul watch. You might be the only one view they get and only on se.

[Taylor]

I just started Season two, it's a. So they just took the curse away. It's getting crazy.

[Eva]

I'm so happy for you. It's a great show.

[Morgan]

I think I'm gonna have to watch it because she keeps talking about it so much.

[Taylor]

I mean, the CGI on it is like.

[Morgan]

Actually, I can't watch it.

[Christine]

I don't know if I can. Oh, my God.

[Taylor]

But it's good.

[Christine]

It's good.

[Morgan]

Hot take. That's how I felt about the New Jurassic World or whatever. But anyways, yeah, I. I did not watch it. Hate it. I haven't watched it much and I felt like Scarlett Johansson, like, personally let me down.

[Eva]

Oh, no, she said this one's for.

[Morgan]

Taylor and the whole thing was like an Altoids commercial. Anyways, I'm not going to get into it. I didn't want to watch it in the first place. It was just ridiculous. But m. Why do you drink?

[Eva]

I drink.

[Christine]

Look at this.

[Morgan]

We go.

[Christine]

We go around the room.

[Eva]

Let me find a reference.

[Christine]

Like, what are we doing?

[Eva]

I. I drink because I'm currently walking a marathon, which is very annoying.

[Christine]

Sorry, what? You're currently walking a marathon? It looks like you're currently walking at your table. Yeah, don't.

[Taylor]

Don't send the cross country runner right.

[Eva]

In front of us. Well, trust me though, what if one.

[Christine]

Of the people in your comments, I.

[Eva]

Was the first person to set off the engagement. You really, you went.

[Christine]

You went like our cross to our cross country on Reddit and you're like, guess what? I found new enemies for all.

[Morgan]

No, no.

[Christine]

Know.

[Eva]

Let. Let me say it again. I'm walking a marathon. Let's start there.

[Christine]

Okay, good.

[Eva]

Start again. Love a trinket and a novelty. So since I've been walking this stupid dog and my ADHD demands that I need a reward for every thing I do. Of course I found this website called Conqueror Challenges where, like, it's basically a mile tracker, but after you walk a certain amount of miles, you get a medal. Like a literal medal. They send it to you.

[Taylor]

I've seen this before. After I was in Hawaii. It's like, walk the road to Hana and you get a road to Hana marathon medal.

[Eva]

And everyone else probably thinks it's very silly, but I literally need it or else I won't walk my dog. So to keep him alive and healthy, I need a medal. Sue me.

[Christine]

You need a medal.

[Eva]

I literally need a trophy for it. But so they just. I think they started it this year where that company now does an annual marathon for you to do with your dog and Then you get a medal, and your dog gets a medal that goes on his collar.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

And so it started. It started yesterday. I enrolled us.

[Christine]

Started yesterday.

[Eva]

I enrolled in this. Or signed up, like, a long time ago when I. It was probably the middle of the night. And then I got an email that said, get ready for your marathon tomorrow. And I went, huh.

[Christine]

First of all, nightmare fuel.

[Morgan]

That would be so triggering.

[Christine]

It's very triggering.

[Eva]

And so, anyway, Hank is more asleep than he's ever been because yesterday we walked over, like, six miles because we're trying to get it all done, and then today we're doing five miles. We're trying to do it all as fast as possible to get this over with, but I want the metal, and I want him to have the metal, and I want us to match, obviously. And a shirt came with it, too, so obviously I had it.

[Morgan]

Of course you had to do it.

[Eva]

Anyway, I drink because I'm walking 26 miles in four days.

[Taylor]

Well, you've got four days.

[Morgan]

You can do this.

[Eva]

Technically, 10 days, but I did the math, and I was like, I'd rather just have four awful days than 10 annoying days.

[Christine]

That's some wild math. You're like, I did the math. Hey, what is, like, a formula for how many days I will be?

[Taylor]

How many is that a day? What is the math?

[Morgan]

God, you and M are just like, with your mouth.

[Christine]

No, no, I'm ser. It's crazy. I'm like, that makes no sense. Whatever you just said to me. Like, it's crazy what you just said to me.

[Morgan]

Well, I know how to do math.

[Eva]

I could be done in four days, and it'll suck, but at least I won't have to.

[Christine]

So then you're not. So then you're not going to walk your dog after that?

[Eva]

I'm going to walk him a normal amount after that.

[Christine]

But. Oh, but then you'll have the metal to be like, but look what we did to get.

[Eva]

I'll show. We'll show the trees. I'll be like.

[Taylor]

And the dog will have the. The metal around its neck.

[Christine]

Yes. Oh, right, right, right. And so it's like, clink, clink, clink. And you'll always be reminded. And then when you see another dog, you're like, please stay away from my award winner.

[Taylor]

I have a champion.

[Morgan]

Champion.

[Christine]

My medalist. Yeah. Please.

[Eva]

To answer your question, it's four days of six and a half miles. So.

[Taylor]

Okay, you can do it.

[Eva]

It's not.

[Taylor]

That sounds 2.6. The other day, and we wanted to.

[Morgan]

Die, I thought my hips Were going to fall off.

[Taylor]

And that's why we didn't do walk.

[Christine]

Three miles just in front of the camera earlier when you guys were sitting back and forth.

[Taylor]

That's true.

[Morgan]

True.

[Eva]

I will say I could walk forever. I just can't run. And I will never do anything on an incline, but you give me a flat surface to mosey for the rest of my life.

[Christine]

A mosey is good. Yeah, mosey is good.

[Morgan]

Our problem is, is that we can't shut up when we walk somewhere out of.

[Christine]

Yeah. So you're talking doggy dogging. Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I have to walk on, otherwise. Yeah.

[Eva]

It's easy to keep my breath when I'm with a dog. I don't have to say anything. I just look at him and I go.

[Christine]

He's also panting, too.

[Morgan]

So I was gonna say, where's he at? He's being so very sweet and kind and silent island.

[Eva]

Well, he walked two and a half miles right before this.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Eva]

And then he's also on some CBD puppy dog gummies. And then on top of that, and then I gave him one of the toys. That exhausts him. So he's, like, out like a light right now, which is excellent.

[Christine]

Damn.

[Eva]

And then after this, we're gonna go walk two more miles. And then tonight we walk two more miles. It's very annoying.

[Taylor]

Oh, man.

[Eva]

That's why I drink. And I drink an iced tea, which I had sent out.

[Morgan]

Sent out for.

[Eva]

I sent out for it, and it's pretty delicious. And that's why I drink.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Morgan]

I love all of the above. I love the reasons that we all drink.

[Christine]

I mean, it's a lot of running. Running.

[Taylor]

It sounds like we all need therapy.

[Morgan]

It sounds like, yeah, we all should go take a nap and just do this later.

[Christine]

I think that we're all really struggling.

[Morgan]

That is so funny.

[Christine]

And now the worst part is you guys have to do work now, and we just get to see.

[Morgan]

Oh, man, I wish you guys enjoy.

[Eva]

This is the. The best. The best episode we've ever recorded because we used to be an audience member.

[Taylor]

And I can't wait for hours.

[Morgan]

I know. We're like, oh, I can't wait till we recorded them. And they.

[Christine]

Hey, I don't blame you. It's really nice.

[Eva]

Well, I. I hope it's. It's a nice notion. At least that that means you're. For this episode. You all are hosting. And that's why we drink.

[Morgan]

So.

[Eva]

Yeah, yeah, take it. Take it away. I guess usually for us, obviously, it's the paranormal side goes first if you want to go first, Morgan.

[Morgan]

Yeah, we also like that.

[Taylor]

Don't you want to go first if.

[Morgan]

We give you guys like a little sample of like, what we do? Because I do not feel like I could ever.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, you guys do your thing, please, please.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Taylor]

And you guys comment with this if.

[Morgan]

You, if you got it, if you know it, but put you on the spot like that. Hit him, hit him with it.

[Taylor]

If you're driving. Throw that on cruise control.

[Morgan]

We got a glass.

[Taylor]

Pour that up and, and let's get creepy.

[Christine]

I wanted to do it, but I was like, it's gonna sound laggy if we're throw everybody off.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Or it's gonna be a triple creepy.

[Eva]

You know, when we, we were on your show last time, or maybe at some point we recorded together for your show and I remember you guys got excited that I said thank you for normalizing pronouns on your show.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Eva]

I just got that feeling for you guys saying that on our show.

[Christine]

Yeah, that feels so.

[Eva]

Thank you. I, it really sparked something in me, so.

[Morgan]

Well, I completely see, understand that feeling.

[Taylor]

Am I, are we ready?

[Eva]

I'm ready.

[Christine]

So ready.

[Eva]

Christine, that's a good looking neck over there.

[Christine]

Thank you. I, I, I know you're just being nice because I feel like as we get older, it's like, oh, I never realized I was supposed to be kind of like moisturizing, taking care of my neck with like, I, it's sort of like, oh, my face. I was always very concerned with. And then you get older and you're like, oh, wait, that's the thing you're supposed to do. And that's why we are very, we gotta make it nice and moist. Okay. I know everyone hates that word.

[Eva]

Love a moist neck, especially Christine's.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Eva]

I've, I've heard from my, my mother and her mother before her that the neck is one of the first places to show visible signs of aging. And so I always thought I would hear my mother complaining about like her forehead to me, but no, it's, how's my neck? How's my neck? How's my neck? And that's where go Pure Beauties Titan and Lift Neck Cream comes in. It's designed to be the hero of your fall skincare routine. And this powerful formula. Formula is packed with clinically proven ingredients that visibly firm, smooth and rejuvenate the skin on your neck and chest in as little as four to eight weeks.

[Christine]

Neck skin is thinner, more delicate, less oily than the skin on your face. And so it Gets really vulnerable to cold, dry air.

[Eva]

Stay hydrated. You have filthy little rats. With over 1 million jars sold, this beauty secret is no longer a secret. And for a limited time, our listeners get 25 off. Go Pure with Code Drink, a checkout.

[Christine]

Just head to gopure.com use code drink and you're all set. And after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask where you heard about Gopure here, tell them it was from our show.

[Eva]

Call me a root because I'm hungry.

[Christine]

I was like, I. What should I. Oh, yes, we are. We're so excited to talk about Hungry Root. At least I am, because I didn't know there was like sort of a special concierge service for my grocery shopping. And there turns out there is. It's, it's Hungry Root. It takes the stress out of grocery shopping by filling your cart with personalized selections that got smarter with every order. And so they quickly learned Leona's preference taste preferences because they're very strong. So whether you're gluten free, dairy free, high protein, a three year old, they really give you like the customized. They have smart cart technology and that's trademarked. So you know, you know it's good.

[Eva]

Yeah. With Hungry Root, it helps you save by also reducing food waste and avoiding impulse grocery buys. But with Hungry Root, you don't have to worry about that. They're going to pick exactly something you're going to like. Like exactly something that's for your preferences. And their best price program offers great value on over 100 popular products.

[Christine]

Take advantage of this exclusive offer. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box, plus get a free item in every box for life.

[Eva]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink, that's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your Choice for Life.

[Christine]

Hungryroot.com Drink Code Drink.

[Taylor]

Okay, besties, boozers and shakers, love afterwards. The story that I have for you today is one that Em has actually covered before, but it's been years and they said it needed a good revisit and a revamp, a full. And as for me, well, I also told it once, maybe, but the only audience that it reached was this mysterious void of the cloud, or what is the Internet, because it completely vanished. Like, I have notes for it. I vividly remember recording it, but it's nowhere to be found now on our Patreon feed, there's one episode missing.

[Morgan]

And so it might Patreon just Don't ask about it. We don't know where it's at. We don't know what happens.

[Taylor]

But it's so funny because I was like, no, I swear. After I had presented it to you as an option, Em, I went and I looked and I was like, I swear I've covered this and I find the notes.

[Morgan]

That's creepy.

[Taylor]

And I'm going like, I'm matching the dates of like, drops on Patreon drops on regular feed. Nothing, nowhere to be found.

[Morgan]

Sound.

[Taylor]

So anyway, I guess that is really.

[Morgan]

There's like one number missing. Like, everyone would be like, making up one. You know, I've listened to episode 68 and 70, but I can't find 69 anywhere. And we're like, well, what? We don't, like, went into drafts. We went to like.

[Christine]

So you didn't even, like, know what happened? It just disappeared?

[Taylor]

Yeah, it's just not there.

[Morgan]

And we know.

[Taylor]

But I also like, because we have it. Did I record it?

[Christine]

That's creepy.

[Morgan]

It is weird.

[Eva]

Was it really episode 69?

[Morgan]

Well, no. I don't know.

[Taylor]

I was like, she's got a sick moment.

[Morgan]

What a funny one.

[Christine]

I do like that. Taylor was like, I'll just think of a random number. How about 69?

[Taylor]

How about 69?

[Eva]

Anyway.

[Morgan]

Sorry.

[Eva]

Well, that is odd. Well, okay. I guess it was meant to be that we.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So maybe we went and copyright struck that. So that you did tell it here so that this would be its first debut.

[Taylor]

Eva probably hacked and deleted it.

[Christine]

Ye.

[Morgan]

Creeps or crimes has to be simple. And we know it's not gonna be crime. So let's just go creeps. Let's just do that. Easy.

[Taylor]

So today I'm gonna be bringing you part one of the Smurl family haunting, which is the true story behind what's said to be the very, very, very last conjuring movie. Maybe.

[Morgan]

Probably not.

[Taylor]

I doubt it.

[Morgan]

Like, I really doubt it.

[Taylor]

Yes, but they say as a cash cow.

[Eva]

I don't know. I.

[Taylor]

And then em is gonna pick up with part two over on the creeps and crime. Sure, let's jump right into it. The story starts. I'm so nervous.

[Morgan]

I'm nervous. Are you?

[Taylor]

The story starts in a town called West Pittston, Pennsylvania. Fun fact about me, I am a PA native. However, on the complete opposite side of where this story takes place.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Taylor]

This is located on the Susquehanna river in this small borough of the greater Pitson area of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. It's a very quiet, family friendly town and town. It's A quiet, family friendly town and also a small town where everyone knows everything situation as a census, as a.

[Morgan]

Sorry.

[Taylor]

Look at me, I'm so nervous. I'm pulling a Taylor.

[Eva]

Actually I was going to ask, have you ever visited. Do you know, have you ever been to that area?

[Taylor]

No, like I've been to Philly, I've done Harrisburg, but this is like up almost above like Wilkes Bar, south of Scranton, I think southeast of Scranton in. So no, that's like six hours away probably. I had to guess.

[Morgan]

We covered a case in Wil Bar or something like that.

[Christine]

Isn't it Wilberry?

[Morgan]

Yes, it is.

[Taylor]

And that's how we got in trouble. Yes, it is.

[Christine]

I know. I felt, I felt the people coming for us and I went, sorry, we already have cross country on our ass.

[Eva]

Was the case the Scranton Strangler, right?

[Christine]

Yes.

[Taylor]

It's like literally.

[Christine]

I think I literally learned that from the office. We'll see.

[Morgan]

There. There. It was like.

[Taylor]

I don't know what it.

[Morgan]

I like, I didn't think that was a real place to be quite honest. Yeah, because it. Well, hold on. It's. It's a. You know what, I'm just gonna shove and let Mor talk. But if you go find whatever case that is on our show we talked about for maybe an hour, it is Wil for sure. Wherever that is.

[Christine]

You know what?

[Taylor]

Actually I think I have been out there because my brother bought this. That's a long story. My brother bought this Jeep off this guy guy. And then like we. He like sends my mom and I to go and get it and then we get there and the guy in the Jeep aren't anywhere to be found and then he's like in jail. Like the guy that was selling the Jeep.

[Christine]

What?

[Taylor]

And yeah, and then we. So like we had to stay the night and then.

[Christine]

In jail? No, no, in Wilkesbury.

[Taylor]

And then the next day we like somehow get into contact with one of his relatives. We get the jeep, give him the money.

[Christine]

I like how you're saying we done enough.

[Eva]

You're like, I'm not leaving.

[Taylor]

Yeah, well, it was quite a haul. I mean it was like probably four or five hours away. And then we're driving back and so I had my mom's car, but the Jeep was like a stick shift, so my mom had to drive it. And it broke down, I think like four different times. And it was just a mess. It was the worst. It took like probably two weeks to actually get this car back to my parents.

[Morgan]

Driving a stick is actually my worst nightmare because it gives you such Bad anxiety to think about having to. All the moving parts here that I'm.

[Christine]

Having to pay attention to when also going to happen.

[Morgan]

I don't even know how I got to the exit I'm at right now.

[Christine]

Like I can barely figure out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, not going to happen.

[Taylor]

Okay, so small town, everyone knows everything situation. As the 2020 census reported only 4,644 people in the area. It's a town that holds a lot of history, especially during the Revolutionary war. But beyond the famous forts and important American history, this area actually has quite a few legends. For example, in the nearby greater Pittston area is home to the unidentified cryptid that has a lovely blood curdling scream. Some believe that it is a pig like creature, while others say it's actually just a descendant of Bigfoot. But not Bigfoot. And it may.

[Christine]

Some people say it's a pig, but some people say it's just Bigfoot.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And it may or may not have claws or walk on two legs. Like I said, it is unidentified. Yet it does have a name. This is the Seuss Susan or Suskon. I think it's Susan. The Susan Screamer. Because this cryptid stays local when it lets out its scream near Susan Road.

[Morgan]

So where is this new cryptid going on the Abby Lee Miller pyramid of the week? I don't.

[Taylor]

I don't want to. Really.

[Morgan]

Well, I mean there's not like a ranking.

[Taylor]

There's just not a lot of information on it.

[Morgan]

But I have a number two. Two on the pyramid. The Susan Screamer.

[Taylor]

And of course there's also a water cryptid which is the Susquehanna seal or sometimes known as the West Branch dugong or the Kettle Creek monster. This creature has been spotted throughout the Susquehanna river and many believe that it made its way from the Great Lakes during a massive flood. And this cryptid is really just an absolute menace. It loves to overturn rafts, small boats and antagonize all fishermen. I should have called my dad cuz I know he's fish on the Susquehanna and been like, bucky, have you ever ran into the I feel branch de gong?

[Eva]

I have a feeling. You don't have to ask. He would tell you, right? He'd be like, guess what the happened.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And that's true.

[Morgan]

What are you doing for your little radio show? I have an idea. Hey, sweetie.

[Taylor]

What are you doing for your little radio show?

[Christine]

Have you ever covered this, my old friend, the Susquehanna seal fish.

[Taylor]

Seal d. However, if you were to ask locals what really chills their bones, they're Most likely aren't going to point you to the forest or the water. They're going to point you right to a quiet tree lined street where for more than a decade aid one family claimed that their home was a war zone between good and evil. And with that, let's go back to August of 1972. The flood on June 23, 1972, after days of relentless rain from hurricane Agnes. Now, I don't know if also if this is where Susquehanna seal came from.

[Morgan]

If this was the flood. Maybe like he got washed in.

[Taylor]

Yeah, the Susquehanna flies right in like.

[Eva]

The rest of the debris. Yeah.

[Taylor]

The Susquehanna river in Wilkes Barre swelled to a record breaking 40.9ft, which was nearly twice the flood stage. I had to look up what a flood stage was. So basically like, here's your stage. If it's under, then the normals or the river's normal. If it meets the stage, then that means like flooding is like gonna happen. This one was double the stage.

[Morgan]

So like this stage being like the biggest bank.

[Taylor]

No, I don't think it's like an actual like landmark.

[Christine]

I think it's like just a line. Like a certain.

[Taylor]

Yeah, like an.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Imaginary line. Yeah.

[Morgan]

They'd be doing crazy with rivers. I don't understand.

[Eva]

You know what, say it again.

[Christine]

Did you know that I live on the river and I just bought a bar, a barge app, so I can see what barges are going by and.

[Taylor]

What they're moving through. What if you find a label barge? Are you.

[Christine]

I'm looking, Morgan. I'm looking. I'm going to swim here, right?

[Morgan]

You're going to have to like spider man in off the bridge, directly on top of it.

[Christine]

Floaties of some sort. So I might have to raid my daughter's closet. But yeah, I will make my way out.

[Morgan]

You can like see.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

[Taylor]

It's like a plain.

[Christine]

It's like very dorky. But I love it. Anyway, they do be doing crazy with these rivers. Yeah, no, true, like the dams.

[Morgan]

How did you do that, dude? Weavers.

[Eva]

Really? You know, really?

[Christine]

Who do you think you are?

[Eva]

I beg to differ. Yeah.

[Morgan]

How?

[Christine]

Okay, how and why?

[Taylor]

When the Susquehanna overflowed, it devastated the Wyoming Valley, but hit Wilkes Barre, which was actually the location of the original Smurl family home. Especially hard entire neighborhoods were underwater. Families lost everything that they had owned. When the waters finally receded, the community was left with destroyed homes, businesses, and a desperate need to reproduce, rebuild. Unfortunately, the Smurls were just one of those families displaced by the flood. Like so many Others, they had to find somewhere new to live as soon as they could. But that search of stability led them to make what would later be remembered as the biggest mistake of their lives. In August of 1973, the family moved into this really old duplex in West Pittston that was in serious need of some TLC. The house was located at 328 Chase street and it was built in 1896. It was one of the oldest, if not the oldest, in the quiet neighborhood. Parents Jack and Janet Smurrell were really looking forward to a fresh start. Jack worked as a technician and Janet managed the household. And together they were very devoted, hard working Catholics. Moving with them were their two daughters, dawn and Helen. Heather at the time of the move in, Don would have been about 8 years old and heather 6. Okay, there was a newspaper clipping that I came across about a son of Jack and Janet Smurl, and I only found one and nothing else on it. But it was actually a birth announcement for their later children from the Times Leader, and it mentions a son named Christopher. It has their home address of 328 Chase St. And has the other two daughters, Heather and daughter on. However, it also has another daughter in this announcement called Carol. So immediately I'm like, who the hell is Christopher and Carol Smurl? Because this story is told like all the way around, like no one's ever heard of them, Right. And so I reached out to one of our friends, Stevie, and she's actually the host of Truth or Demons podcast. And one thing about Stevie, she's gonna get to the bottom of it. She's kind of. She's kind of got it out for the Warrens and she really has exposing their cases. So she has a friend and we knew that she had a contact over at the nespr, which is the New England Society of Psychic Research. And after further digging, Jimmy speculated that, you know, he may have. They might have had a son. He may have passed of early age, but it's kind of often missed in any sort of reporting since it was prior to the move. However, there was also the possibility of them completely mixing up two Smurl families in the same area. This other family was John and Eleanor Smurl Smurl, who have a son named Christopher and Jack and Janet Smurl, who at the time had their two daughters, dawn and Heather. But like the birth announcement mixed the families together.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Eva]

So embarrassing.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And also, like, did they know that someday that would be really screwing us all over on the Internet?

[Taylor]

No, really, like all the story that's exactly what I thought.

[Morgan]

Like, we were selling a deep dive Scooby Doo level.

[Taylor]

Getting so confused because I'm like, okay, actually, actually, this story, a lot of the sources report that they moved into the house with all four girls. But then there's a couple sources that are like, no, she gave birth to the two girls, the twins, later on. I'm sorry.

[Eva]

I always knew.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So I was trying to, like, decide or find out when the twins were born, what year their birth date. And when I come across this, I come across a literal newspaper clipping from, like, West Pittston. And I was like, who the fuck is Christopher? And who the fuck is Carol? So we're still not sure actually who Carol is. She might be another kid of Jack and Eleanor Smurl, the locals.

[Christine]

Right. They really, really mashed the siblings together.

[Taylor]

I just wanted to mention that. Wasn't able to find a whole lot there. But it does go to show that the newspapers really were just printing anything back then, clearly with the home address.

[Christine]

The home address is wild.

[Eva]

Which, you know, if the. If the families got mixed up, the wrong house is probably getting like, congrats on your new baby gifts.

[Christine]

And they're like, all these, like, all.

[Morgan]

These stork in the front yard.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Yeah. That they.

[Eva]

I. I like that. Before we've even begun the. The spooky part of the story, there's already a mystery. Like, it's like, if you really wanted to take a tangent and forget about the original story, there's a whole other trail to follow.

[Morgan]

And then we could open up ancestry.

[Taylor]

And then I'm like, who are the. Were they.

[Morgan]

Were they cousins?

[Taylor]

Were they roommates? Were they roommates?

[Christine]

It's not like a common last name.

[Morgan]

Well, and wasn't it a duplex, too?

[Taylor]

Yeah, I'll get to that.

[Morgan]

Okay. Okay. Come on. Good. Are you listening?

[Taylor]

Spoiler alert. It's not Eleanor Smirrel who moves in there.

[Morgan]

I was really hoping it was going to be the. What if the 2s' more families that are not related at all happen to move into the whole thing?

[Taylor]

Duplex?

[Christine]

Well, they TLC reality show.

[Eva]

I have to believe in the universe about that.

[Taylor]

Our S family, they bought the entirety of the duplex.

[Christine]

So both sides got it. Got it.

[Taylor]

So the girls, they were very curious. They were playful, and they're very close with each other. Jack Spin parents John and Mary would then join them later that year in December, moving into the other side of the duplex. 330 Chase Street. Now, for most, I feel like living in a conjoined House with your in laws might be worse than any haunting demon or not like, I don't know.

[Eva]

That's the crime part of the creep.

[Taylor]

So no, it wasn't this random S' Morel family.

[Morgan]

It was actually the in laws. Even scarier.

[Taylor]

Even scarier. But for the S', Morels, it was actually a perfect situation. They were extremely close knit and they were leaning on each other for support during a pretty stressful time in their lives. After settling in, the family joined the Immaculate Conception parish and the girls were enrolled in St. Mary's Assumption School.

[Morgan]

Oh my God. I forgot they were Catholic for a second. I was like, what?

[Christine]

No, I was like, that all sounds perfectly normal to me.

[Morgan]

She said, they're Catholic. I looked over at Christine. Christine's like.

[Christine]

I was like. I was like, I know where they. It's either the. The Sacred Heart of Mary or the Immaculate Conception. Something kind of weird. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

I'm pretty sure Aaron's church is also immaculate. Something.

[Morgan]

Yeah, mine.

[Taylor]

Why is everything. Why is everything so immaculate?

[Eva]

I don't know, girl. It's. I'm so.

[Christine]

It's not. That's the problem. I'm like, are they only.

[Morgan]

Are they either or. I've never. I'm like, not.

[Christine]

It's because of immaculate Conception, which is like when they. How they say that Jesus was, I guess, implanted as an embryo inside the virgin.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Hybrid babies. Got you. Got you.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Immaculate conception is what they call it. So then they say like the Immaculate Heart of Mary or like the Immaculate.

[Morgan]

Okay, I'm here with you. Yeah. I just feel like when a church.

[Taylor]

Is called like Immaculate Conception, it just is really, like.

[Christine]

No, no, no. It's so true. And like, as a kid, it's great because then you're like, you're looking at the pamphlet, it says virgin and you can go like, renee, look, it's you. And then you point to virgin. And then like the other person's like, hey, look, it's you. And it's like something else really unsettling about like, conception or like virgins or, you know, I mean, there's a lot. Or like, or like bloody nails in the cross. Like, there's so many words that you can kind of like play around with.

[Morgan]

Yeah, no, I. I was raised Southern Baptist. Yeah, I mean, that's probably much better. So you know what? Actually, because it was my own pop pops church. And like, he was awesome. Like, super progressive and everything. And like got actually. So you weren't just like wolves for wanting to do gay marriage like, he was a great man. Like, he is awesome. But all I remember, like, doing is, like, the old hymn books that in those, like, old country. Because I was, like, literally in an old back country. The area was called Buck's Pocket, like, church.

[Taylor]

Buck pocket.

[Morgan]

Buck Pocket. And we would open up the hymns, and there was this woman who would get up and she'd sing I'll Fly Away, oh, Glory. Like that. And I'm there.

[Christine]

Oh, M's worshiping Holy, Holy. The spirit has moved you.

[Morgan]

M. Im.

[Eva]

Wow.

[Morgan]

And you just. Everyone just had to sit there and listen to that woman. And I would get such horrible secondhand embarrassment just sitting there being like, I.

[Eva]

Know very rarely did I ever have to be in a church setting at all. But every time the. I don't even know the name of the guy up front because apparently when I say pastor, that's wrong. Or father, priest, whatever. Whatever.

[Morgan]

You could say pastor. You could say reverend, whatever you want to say.

[Eva]

The guy in charge. That's not God. Every time I would have to go to a church, the guy talking always had the funniest voice.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Eva]

And no matter which church I went to, like, the only reason I ever really went was for, like, a wedding or, like, my cousin's communions or something. And every time it happened to be somebody who was sing.

[Christine]

They have. They don't have to, but they make. They do it because they want to. They're like, yes.

[Morgan]

It was always the moment.

[Eva]

It was always a setup where it was so quiet and all. I, I. I took everything in me to not laugh the entire time.

[Christine]

Well, then imagine Renee turning around and going, look, it's you. And pointing the word virgin. It really was impossible not to.

[Morgan]

Y' all are speaking Latin in there, like, literally.

[Taylor]

I got to touch every day the Wide World Church of.

[Morgan]

She was in a cult, so that's a whole different.

[Christine]

So I didn't.

[Taylor]

My parents. Well, actually, my dad never. Yeah. My mother left the church when I was probably, like, seven.

[Eva]

We got a lot about.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Hey, how about we do this on the Yappy Hour?

[Morgan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Christine]

True, right? Because I feel like we have a lot to say.

[Eva]

I have nothing to say except comments.

[Christine]

Subscribe from Patreon. They're gonna be like, no, I'm very.

[Eva]

Lucky to have no religious trauma. So I listen to all of you. I'm. Would be a. I'm a dream to my ears, but I feel so sad at the same time.

[Christine]

Totally shouldn't let Morgan tell her story, like, later because. Well, now, too. Also now you get to talk now too. But at the happy hour, I also want to hear your cold story.

[Taylor]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

[Morgan]

It's good.

[Taylor]

Okay, so the same year that they move in, Jack gets a promotion. The girls are thriving academically, but this is pretty short lived. The Smirrel haunting didn't start with those demons flying around or people levitating like we will here. It starts like all of the creepiest stories. Small, small, subtle things that could be brushed off as those quirks of an old house. After moving in that August, Jack Smurl dumped his savings into fixing up this home. The first few months were spent painting, fixing minor things and really just making it a livable place for the family where they could be comfortable and regain that sense of home again. For the most part, that first year was pretty quiet. Maybe they were just naive to the old creeks and groans that you would expect from a house that built in 1896. Or maybe they were blinded by excitement of a new beginning. I feel like we can all relate to the busyness of a of a move and renovations. Because it never ends. And the one second you do have to spare to rot on the couch, there's always that lingering next project in the back of your mind.

[Christine]

Well, there's a hole, there's a drip in the water.

[Taylor]

Right? Meaning there's no extra energy left to take notice of the small paranormal happenings around you.

[Eva]

100.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

What's odd to the story is that the activity didn't really begin to pick up until Jack's parents moved next door. Maybe they disturbed something during move in. Or maybe these potential entities, like when the S family moved in, they escaped to the empty side of the condo or the duplex. And then they got real pissed off when both were occupied. Or maybe they were like no in laws allowed.

[Christine]

Yeah, I mean they were like these guys suck.

[Eva]

Or maybe mom like brought them with her, you know?

[Morgan]

Or that.

[Christine]

Brought them along. Ew.

[Eva]

Because like what's worse than having your mother in law, you know, maybe living next to you? It's like if she's also covered in.

[Christine]

Demons, she's also brought her personal baggage in a literal and purple Mary Poppins.

[Eva]

Bags of all ghosts.

[Morgan]

Oh my God. Me and M just said the same exact thing. That is crazy.

[Taylor]

That's crazy.

[Morgan]

That's me and my Mary Poppins bag laying in the floor right here. It's got crystals, demons, whatever you need it.

[Taylor]

Whoa la boo boos.

[Morgan]

I can cleanse you whatever you need.

[Taylor]

Regardless of what it was. They didn't like both sides of the Home being occupied. It was January 10, 1974. So just a few months after move in, Jack and Janet had just laid down brand new carpet in the living room. Brand new. So it's fresh, it's clean, doesn't have a stain in sight. But overnight, something appeared. A dark blotch right in the center of the room.

[Christine]

It looks like Jesus's face. And they all worshiped it. Catholics look for the Virgin Mary and every toast and in every literally water stain.

[Taylor]

It must not have, because Janet began scrubbing it, but nothing was working. It wouldn't come out. They tried every cleaner that they had, but this dark stain was there to stay. Almost like something was maybe claiming its territory. Then by February 1, it wasn't just stains. The family began noticing tools going missing, like hammers or paintbrushes or screwdrivers. And Jack had just assumed that he was just misplacing the items while renovating. Which very log assumption there, buddy, actually, because, like, yeah, I lose all the time. I just throw.

[Christine]

I'm like, let me buy another hammer. And right, 11 hammers.

[Morgan]

That's my levels. I like, every time I wear Home Depot, I'm like, I need. I need a level. And my husband's like, I bought you four.

[Taylor]

Yeah. What really gets lost is the tape measure.

[Christine]

I can never find a tape measure. And then all of a sudden, I have 16 in my nightstand. I'm like, where the did these go?

[Taylor]

How did they get there?

[Morgan]

I opened up my garter. Like, my. My garden bag. Like, that has like. Not my. Not my garden bag, but my actual, like, garden outside bag. Like where my tomatoes are. And I was outside. I'm out there looking all over. I open up this thing, okay, this bag, and it's got, like, my gloves in it, my, like, knee pads in it, all the stuff. And the inside are three of the exact same yellow tape measures.

[Eva]

I'd be so mad at myself.

[Taylor]

I'd be like, yeah, I'd be so pissed off.

[Christine]

I've.

[Morgan]

Wait. I've only bought one yellow, though. I've. I've got a blue one, a red one, and a yellow one. I've never bought another yellow one because it came in a pack. So I don't know if I just keep stealing people.

[Christine]

So I'm like, something happens in my garden. I'm like, some fairies did it or something. Like anything outside the perimeter of the walls. I'm like, it's not my pro. It's not my issue, you guys. Somebody did something weird. I don't.

[Eva]

I don't have for Me. It's not like tools. It's more obvious. It's like. It's like scissors. Like, I. I have, like.

[Christine]

Well, yeah, of scissors.

[Eva]

I have to now have a designated pair of scissors in every room. So I don't go into another room and bring them into another room. And then I've got a room full of 10 scissors.

[Christine]

The white ones are dining room. Like, it's ridiculous.

[Taylor]

And why do we need scissors so often? Like, why are we constantly cutting, Cutting?

[Christine]

You know why? Because I usually get a huge knife and then Blaze is like, don't open a box like that.

[Eva]

Like this with a knife with the same.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And then. And what is Morgan doing? Like, laying on the table to hold it steady.

[Morgan]

Like, actually, I got a jig jigsaw out back.

[Taylor]

Scissors.

[Morgan]

I've used my. I used my kitchen scissors because I couldn't find my bathroom scissors on my eyebrows the other day because I was like. So then I had to wash the kitchen scissors, and my husband was like, why are the kitchen scissors being washed right now? And why is there little hairs all over?

[Taylor]

Why their hairs don't work?

[Eva]

It's none of your business.

[Morgan]

Shut up. Like, actually, okay.

[Taylor]

However, the tools started showing up in really strange places like the angel attic or sometimes the basement. Two places where nobody had been working.

[Christine]

So that's where they've been relegated. They went to the empty space now that someone moved in. So now they're like, well, you're down the attic and basement, and we're going to steal your and bring it.

[Morgan]

Okay, we're going to take your tools.

[Taylor]

So you come to us, actually, even though we want space, but come to us. On March 15, Jack kind of lost it and decided that enough was enough, because these stains weren't only coming from the carpet, but now. Now also seeping in through the freshly painted walls. He repainted the dining room, trying to cover up the odd discoloration, but within days, the stains would bleed right back through. So he'd slap on another coat, and then the stains would reappear. He's like, okay, you know, this isn't going to work for me. I'm actually wasting a lot of time here. And result and money and resulted to actually just putting up wood paneling on the walls. Now, part of me to be a skeptic here, because wood pan paneling was in then, right? In the seventies, probably really expensive. So I'm thinking his wife is like, I really want the wood paneling. He's like, no, it's not in our budget. So he'd paint them and she'd be like, oil stain, you know, like every night. And then she said, finally got her wood paneling.

[Morgan]

Cool. Let's look at the wood paneling.

[Christine]

She's like, I talked enough to do that. Yeah, yeah. If you're here, can you just throw yourself into the wall a little bit? I know you love the carpet. You can roll your way. Yeah, okay.

[Morgan]

Maybe you're stealing the hammer. Drag it through the wall because I.

[Taylor]

Need my wood paneling.

[Eva]

Or maybe she never had to ask. Maybe the demon's just like a girl's girl and was like, no, you need this wood panel.

[Christine]

I understand. Don't deprive her of the wood paneling.

[Taylor]

Not the demon being trendy.

[Eva]

It's like, we have to team up against the man. Please don't let the man win. We're not going to do that.

[Taylor]

By summer, things got scarier. On June 5, at exactly 8pm, the Living Room TV, which was completely un. Unplugged, burst into flames. The fire caused about $200 worth of damage. And while firefighters chalked it up to faulty wiring, Jack swore that the set wasn't even connected to any bit of electricity. That same week, their bathroom plumbing turned against them. On June 3, a plumber named Mike Rossi re soldered.

[Morgan]

That's like re.

[Taylor]

You know, connecting the pipes or like sealing them after persisting leaks. Three days later, these deep scratches mysteriously appeared on their brand new sink and tub as though some animal or something with claws had torn through like the porcelain.

[Morgan]

Porcelain. Yeah.

[Christine]

No.

[Morgan]

Yeah. I couldn't even if I wanted scratch it. Like, honestly.

[Christine]

And not even with acrylics. Oh.

[Taylor]

Not even with scissors. With a jigsaw or my bathroom scissors. Definitely not M's teeth.

[Morgan]

I don't know.

[Christine]

That might actually do something.

[Taylor]

Well, you know what's so funny about the. The teeth remark is that my mom sent me a picture today. She always tries to get like, really artsy and craftsy and she's visiting my brother and my nephew Miles, who just turned six months. And so they are doing a six month picture. So she got sent us a picture and was like, which one should we use? And it was like a watermelon six that she cut or it was like a candle that. That said six for his watermelon six month picture. And I said, what the hell is that? I said, did you use your teeth to cut that watermelon? Because it looked terrible. Because she's just not artsy, you know, and it was just funny because, like.

[Christine]

Now she's just chewed the Shape out a little bit.

[Taylor]

I'll have to send you the picture later.

[Christine]

You don't need to check this off. You've got Em's sharp teeth.

[Eva]

Yeah, when it comes to a watermelon, my teeth can handle it. But this porcelain, I don't know about that is absolutely out of control.

[Taylor]

Have you ever ate a watermelon rind?

[Eva]

Have I? Yeah, I have. I didn't enjoy it, but I did what I had to.

[Christine]

Pickled watermelon rind.

[Eva]

Oh, pickled. I don't know.

[Morgan]

If you just eat it raw and you're like. You're really. You just raw dog that. And you can't poop. Like, you're constipated. You're going to your pants.

[Taylor]

When I had teeth.

[Eva]

You mean eat it, like, as like to enjoy?

[Christine]

Well, I don't enjoy.

[Morgan]

Because I was constipated before. I.

[Taylor]

There was a bet made against me when I was at the beach with a. This was like, probably six or seven years ago. It's before I had permanent teeth. So I used to have a flipper, fake teeth. And his cousin is like, I'll give you $50 if you eat that watermelon rind. And I'm like, okay, easy. Took one bite in it. Both of my front teeth snapped off at the beach. And so, like, they. You had to, like, get a new retainer and like, a new flipper or whatever to wear with it because it, like, I could pop my teeth in and out. And so I text his parents who were out, like, at dinner or something, and I was like, I need super glue. And they're immediately like, why? What did you guys break?

[Morgan]

And everyone.

[Taylor]

And they're like, my teeth. Like, I had no teeth all week. The super glue wasn't holding them in.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[Taylor]

And I never got the $50, actually. It was just brought up.

[Christine]

I'm gonna call him right now.

[Taylor]

Yeah, his name is Luke, and he didn't pay me.

[Christine]

And then Taylor's like, hey, were you still constipated afterwards?

[Morgan]

Yeah. Like, did you poop out?

[Taylor]

I don't know. I never even heard that.

[Morgan]

Yeah, you could do that. Cucumbers too. Huh?

[Eva]

Interesting. I thought you guys meant, like, did I ever bite watermelon rind? To, like, to the watermelon? No, to like, oh, like, you had a whole watermelon.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's what I also thought.

[Eva]

And I said, yeah. I mean, I didn't have a knife. And I just went, I guess I gotta get in there.

[Taylor]

I was picturing, like, the watermelon triangles. And then you would eat everything. Like, you wouldn't.

[Eva]

I see you just like the brown on the kiwi.

[Morgan]

Do you eat the. I've eaten the bikini.

[Eva]

I'm not crazy. What are you talking about?

[Taylor]

No, I don't do that.

[Eva]

I've done it before.

[Christine]

Australians do that.

[Morgan]

Yeah, I've done it before. Okay. I was like, I'll try it. Sure.

[Christine]

So you're supposed to scrub the hair off.

[Morgan]

Yeah. You, like, rub it. And I did it on my jeans. I was in a truck.

[Eva]

I threw a watermelon like a rabbit. So I really don't get to like.

[Morgan]

And why didn't you just throw it on the ground or something, popping it open?

[Christine]

Because this is pretty.

[Eva]

I don't know you.

[Morgan]

Meanwhile, I've got my kiwi on my jeans in some man's truck.

[Taylor]

It's turning blue with teeth so sharp.

[Morgan]

Wait, and the yellow water.

[Taylor]

Do you sharpen your teeth like me?

[Eva]

No, I just had. I just committed to the bit. I just made it work, that's all.

[Taylor]

That's some strong teeth right there.

[Morgan]

Thank you. Have you guys ever cracked open a yellow one?

[Eva]

No, but I have had a The midnight one ones.

[Morgan]

What's a midnight one?

[Christine]

What the hell are either of these?

[Morgan]

Me and Morgan are watermelon.

[Taylor]

I've never heard of a midnight one.

[Morgan]

Never enthusiasts.

[Eva]

Am I. Am I saying the wrong one?

[Christine]

No, no, I. I don't. I don't.

[Eva]

I'm sure you've just never heard. It's. Oh, it's the ones where like the. Instead of it being green, it's like it's black.

[Christine]

I've never.

[Morgan]

Never heard, never seen.

[Christine]

It's like very sweet.

[Eva]

I don't know, but it's like. It's like maybe so dark that they're actually green.

[Taylor]

Oh, wait, so what's the.

[Christine]

What's the other one you guys said? The yellow.

[Morgan]

So one day I had gone to like, Publix right before we recorded or something. And you know how, like, they'll have those little mini watermelons because, like, Logan will not. He doesn't love just like, eating watermelon like, throughout the week. Like, truly, I need to throw him away. So whenever Morgan's coming over, I'll go get like a big one and because she'll help me eat it and I'll send her home with some if I. I really want some. So anyways, I go there and I got like one of the medium sized ones and I was cutting it up before she came over to record. So I like crack into it and boom, it's yellow on the inside.

[Christine]

What?

[Morgan]

It looked like a completely normal watermelon. I had got two on the inside. I got two. I crack open the other one. It's like a regular watermelon. Like you know, pinky red on the outside.

[Christine]

Weird.

[Morgan]

So I'm like, I'm allowed to eat it. I call Morgan. Morgan's like, oh my God. You got the, you got the yellow watermelon. We looked it up. Apparently, like that is like one of the most healthy things for you because it happens so randomly because of a, a, a chemical thing. And it's like one of the. What was.

[Taylor]

It tasted amazing.

[Morgan]

Amazing. The best one ever.

[Taylor]

It was like.

[Morgan]

Yes, it was. Yeah. It's like got some like an antioxidant or something in it that's like really good for your immune system. And it's like, like so hard to get too, like supplements.

[Taylor]

Like. Not really though.

[Morgan]

Not really. It tasted like a watermelon. It tastes like same texture and everything. It was just maybe like a little sweeter. But at the same time you're seeing.

[Christine]

Yellow so you're like, it must feel different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eva]

That's like the exact opposite of pink pineapples. It's like instead of being yellow, they're pink. And they're also a lot sweeter than.

[Taylor]

I've never heard of those either.

[Morgan]

Cotton candy strawberries though, or the pineapple. Strawberries.

[Taylor]

The pineapples. Pine strawberries. Pine berries.

[Morgan]

Cotton candy grapes.

[Christine]

Cotton candy grapes are my favorite.

[Taylor]

They're so sweet.

[Morgan]

They are good. I love any and all crunchy fruit at all times. I'm so sorry.

[Taylor]

I know we, we'll never finish.

[Morgan]

Guys, I did a really good job so far.

[Christine]

We tried to warn Eva. We said, I, I hope you know, if you put all four of us in a room it will be a five hour. I don't know how to tell.

[Eva]

Can you imagine us out of like a bar and not working? Like it would be double the time.

[Taylor]

They'd be like closed.

[Christine]

Guys, it's been three days. Please.

[Taylor]

It's been three days. Okay. For the first year or so, the family tried to find any logical reason. Old house quirks, quirk. Quirks. Quirks that sounded crazy coming out. Bad wiring, shitty plumbing. But by 1975, whatever lived in that house started to show itself. On February 15, 1975, nine year old dawn told her mother that she had seen figures floating through her bedroom. She described them as human shaped, but see through like a mist. She woke up her mom, but when they searched the room, nothing was there. And then came the smells. On April 20, just after sunrise, a stench filled the kitchen. Dawn compared it to rotten meat, and that said that it was so strong that the family had to leave the room. And just as quickly as it arrived, it had vanished. Vanished. So maybe it was sewage backing up, possibly a dead animal in the walls. But the fact that it happened repeatedly and only lasted 10 minutes each time really kept them guessing. On July 10, 1975, noises then joined the party. Jack heard footsteps pacing the attic. At 1am he grabbed a flashlight, searched every corner, but there was no one up there. A few weeks later, neighbors started noticing things as well. Well, on August 5th, a neighbor, Mary Kowalski from next door, swore that she heard really odd noises coming from the duplex at around 10pm however, when questioning the Smurl family the following day, they were adamant that the entire house was asleep. By that time, these strange occurrences started to pile up, and Janet began writing them down in her diary. The scratches, stains, foul smells, noises, the little stuff that seemed harmless, but together was really painting a darker piece of picture, which is how we have all these time stamps for the story. By 1977, the activity got bolder and a little bit more personal because Janet was due to have twin baby girls early in the year.

[Eva]

Whoopsie.

[Taylor]

On January 10, 1977, the family welcomed Shannon and Karen Smurl. What should have been a joyful time instead added a lot more stress to an already stretched thin house household. The activity continued, and then disaster struck in March when Jack's mom, Mary, had a sudden heart attack. She would end up being hospitalized for weeks at Geisinger Medical center while recovery, the activity only got worse. Which brings me back to M's point. What if Mary is the problem?

[Morgan]

Yeah, good point.

[Taylor]

Because, like, this is when it really starts getting physical.

[Christine]

She's causing problems.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And she's gone at this point in time. So they're like really panicking.

[Christine]

Holy shit.

[Taylor]

On March 5, 1977, unplugged radios began blasting static full volume at 2 in the morning, waking up the entire family in April, which is peak spring season for Pennsylvania. But also like, you can still have your furnace on because it might be really cold, but like, also like it's not necessary, like you can get away away with it. The house became ice cold. The family noticed that they had these pockets of freezing air dropping to as low as 45 degrees, even though the furnace was running. And then came the touches. On June 20, Jack was in bed reading a book when he felt something stroke down his arm. He whipped around. But no one was there yet. And couldn't shake this feeling that he was being observed. Why watched? By July, the haunting had grown violent. Kitchen drawers were slamming open and shut, sending silverware across the floor. And then the noises came. Or the voices that got a little too personal. The voices began imitating family members.

[Eva]

Forget it.

[Taylor]

One morning in 1978, Janet heard Mary calling her name from the basement early in the morning at 9am Now I've heard also, like, flip side of this. It was actually Mary that heard.

[Morgan]

Janet. Janet. Still Mary's involved.

[Taylor]

So there's. Yeah, still Mary's involved. It was actually the girls that really got the brunt of like, this whole situation.

[Christine]

Right.

[Taylor]

All the females in the house.

[Morgan]

Like, this ghost was a g. Yeah. You know, with that.

[Taylor]

They really are a girl's girl.

[Christine]

They are a girl's girl. They really, really seems to be.

[Taylor]

Love girlhood, huh? Okay. So whichever way that is Janet hears Mary or Mary. Here's Janet. Someone's mimicking one another other. But at that time, Janet. I'm gonna go with that source because that's what I saw more often. Janet knew that Mary was at the grocery store because she say waved goodbye to her. Like, just not long before that.

[Morgan]

Why were they each at the grocery store? Oh, wait. She had left to go to the grocery store.

[Taylor]

Hearing a DG in the basement.

[Morgan]

No, no. My question was, how did she know?

[Taylor]

Because she waits. They lived in a duplex.

[Morgan]

Go to the grocery store. Grocery store. Yeah.

[Taylor]

So she knew she wasn't at home because she was at the grocery store. So she's like, what the is.

[Christine]

It's like that mimic that you. That went around on Tick Tock where it was like, I know that's not my mom, but, like, it sounds like my mom outside. Like, that kind of creepy.

[Taylor]

Makes me sick.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Horrible.

[Eva]

Nothing's worse than a mimic of all the. Of all the demons. To me. I'm. I'm.

[Christine]

Yeah, the DGs are really, really nice.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And on the flip side of that, Mary once heard Janet and Jack screaming at each other, cursing, and in a really bad, like, marriage fight at around 10pm one night. But when she asked them if everything was okay the next day, they had no idea what fight she was talking about.

[Morgan]

Okay. Or they're also lying because, like, if you're. That is your mom.

[Taylor]

That is true. Could be a lie.

[Morgan]

There was nothing going on last night.

[Taylor]

They swore that they were definitely sleeping at that point in time. About a month after this ghost marriage fight, another neighbor named Tom Riley was woken up by screams echoing through the duplex at around 1am Tom lived next door at 326 Chase St. So he calls the house phone to check on the Smurls that night, but there was no answer. So he looks outside and there's no cars. So he confirms later on that the Smurls weren't even home that weekend. The house was empty.

[Eva]

Hey, I'm to going to go. That's crazy.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Morgan]

What do you mean? Screams and hangs up the phone.

[Eva]

Yeah, leave session.

[Christine]

So sorry.

[Taylor]

And then came the first real apparition. In June of that year, dawn and Heather were sitting in the living room when they watched a black mass float across the living room. It was shapeless, but they said it felt almost alive. The girl said that it had this smoky humanoid shape. The children also complained of ghostly figures over their. Their beds, hovering. And worse, they heard the sound of wings fluttering around their rooms at night. Imagine being a kid lying in bed covers pulled up like scared to death and you're just hearing like what the. In the dark, coming closer and calling.

[Eva]

Them fairies as if they like brought three more sets of your yellow tape measure or something.

[Morgan]

She was a very. Hell no, she was not.

[Taylor]

Yeah, she was not a fairy.

[Eva]

Yeah, I feel like I, I, I feel, feel like as a little kid, if you're calling it a fairy, it's almost like you're doing whatever you can to make it seem happy so you can just sleep at night.

[Christine]

Like whimsical. I'm thinking like a bat or like a demonic like bat figure thing.

[Taylor]

Yeah, like a big scary winged, like man situation.

[Morgan]

Midnight mass thing. Yeah, like vampire flying around Batman.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I hate all of that.

[Eva]

And I wonder like, I guess we'll, we'll never really know what the exact sounds were, but if it was like, in my opinion, mind, a wings sound like, like, like a. Oh, true.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

I guess I was just picturing like.

[Morgan]

The like a little like a fly.

[Christine]

Almost like fairy.

[Eva]

Little fairy.

[Christine]

Maybe it was something, but.

[Taylor]

Yeah, maybe it was like a.

[Eva]

We'll never know how big the wings were.

[Taylor]

Like just whipping like someone.

[Christine]

They're like mom and dad. Why are we hearing whipping noises and swimming from your.

[Morgan]

What is that sound is going on here?

[Christine]

We're sleeping.

[Morgan]

Screaming and fighting and whipping sounds. Oh my.

[Christine]

We're just sleeping.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Morgan]

Oh, mom and dad.

[Taylor]

Even the family's German shepherd, Simon wasn't safe. Sometimes they would wake up to his howling. But when they looked, he was lying in bed next to.

[Christine]

Ew. He had a doppelganger. No.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Sometimes other Times it was as if he was being moved around the house by these unseen hands. Jack once watched the dog walk across the upstairs hallway, only to call out and be like, simon. Simon. And Simon suddenly appears down on the bottom step right next to him, as though he was downstairs the entire time.

[Christine]

He's like, yeah, dad.

[Eva]

And it's like, begs the question, is that really Simon next to you? You know?

[Christine]

Oh, yeah.

[Taylor]

Which one's real?

[Eva]

Oh, yeah, because which one is it?

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Eva]

And also hate that if it's a mimic pretending to be one of your family members. That already freaks me out because it means, like, oh, I'm intelligent. I know what all of you look and sound like. And I know how you would respond to me sounding this way. When it's your dog, it's like, oh, your last line of defense with, like, a protective guard dog, maybe. It's like, I'm. I could still be him. You wouldn't even know.

[Christine]

Yeah, right.

[Morgan]

Like, who's like. And we all know that they're more sensitive to, like, ghosts and stuff, too. So, yeah, that's like, could. But also. Also think about that, too, because, like, I know all three of you have dogs. And, like, you with your dogs. Like, it's not like with a cat, where, like, okay, a cat can be in one place and then two seconds later be in another place. And I'm really not that stressed out about it. I'm like, okay, you were just time traveling, teleporting, like you do. Yeah, but, like, Ollie, Geo, Hank, like, with those clippity clappities walking around, their breathing, like, no wish. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

You'd hear them, you know, whole thing.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Eva]

Thing. Depending on what type of. Like, how well does this mimic? Is it able to mimic your dog? Because the most horrifying thing to me is that Hank is, like a natural. When he goes to bed at night, he wants to fully, like, be little spooned. And so I'm like, what if something was pretending to be him?

[Morgan]

And it's, like, pressed up against every night you do.

[Eva]

But I guess that's the same if you, like, have a spouse. It's like you're lying in bed with something, pretending to be your partner.

[Taylor]

I know I'm like this with Aaron. I'm like, all the way over. Too close.

[Morgan]

Too close. That side. I'm gonna.

[Taylor]

And then Ollie, like, we just.

[Morgan]

Ollie is right here.

[Christine]

Right on, Mom.

[Morgan]

Anyways, he's got his, like, feet and tail on dab.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's how it should be.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Well, poor Simon was always restless Always on edge, sensing something that clearly his owners and his family could not. Things like this went on for all for almost 10 years. By 1985, the haunting turned vicious. The attacks became physical. Scratches would appear on Janet's arms, three deep claw marks that burned but had no explanation from where they came from. Dawn was shoved down the stairs one time, and then on the night of Heather's confirmation into the Catholic church. The girls were all getting ready at the kitchen table with their mom, when all of a sudden, the light that was bold bolted to the ceiling began shaking violently. It breaks free from the ceiling and comes crashing down, cutting Heather badly enough that she needed to go get stitches.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[Taylor]

Janet, meanwhile, was pulled from her bed not once, but several times. One night in 1985, she was yanked straight off the mattress, lifted into the air, and hovered nearly six feet above the ground before being thrown violently to the floor. The worst of it, though, was deeply disturbing. So trigger warning here for sexual assault. Jack reported being assaulted by a grotesque female figure while watching tv, what he described as a succubus with rotting teeth in a stench of decay.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Taylor]

Not long after, Janet herself reported being violated by a male presence while she was lying in bed, powerless to fight back. This wasn't just a haunting anymore. Like, they were trying to take over this house, take over the family and the family's faith and their sanity, their safety was all under attack.

[Christine]

The escalating is so scary. You're right, because I didn't, like, get it at first when he's like, I mean, I got it, but I was like, yeah, I guess it's scarier when it starts small, but, like, you're not kidding. Like, it. The.

[Eva]

The build.

[Christine]

Every step building up is like, get. Makes it so much creepy.

[Morgan]

They seriously did go from, like, oh, renovations being thing. Like, the walls, then the. Yeah, the tools. The walls, the. The porcelain, then saying that they're hearing.

[Taylor]

Stuff in their room, the TV is.

[Eva]

Catching on fire, and, you know.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Taylor]

And then pretty sure at one point, the dog was. I didn't want to mention this because I don't like doggies getting hurt, but they were thrown up against the wall, like, multiple times. Simon was, like, picked up and thrown across the walls.

[Christine]

Like a message, right? Like, oh, you're guard dog.

[Eva]

You're like, your guard dog is safe.

[Morgan]

Yeah, it did go. And then, like, the mimicking was before the, like, touching, right? So it was just like. So we went from, like, little things to. I hate that.

[Christine]

It's, like, growing. Like, it feels like it's growing. Like, it's gaining energy. Yeah.

[Eva]

I wonder what that means, because, like, it's. Does that mean that. Not that any. Any of them were asking for any type of haunting, but, like, by not doing anything, feeding accidentally inviting. Well, I feel something.

[Christine]

Right.

[Taylor]

Well, I feel like this is the case whenever you hear about a lot of, like, demons haunting houses because they can feed with or without you wanting them to feed. You know what I mean? So the longer that they're there and, like, if they're avoiding it for the first three years being, like, oh, just.

[Christine]

An old house, and they can cause strife and, like, tension and.

[Eva]

Yeah. And with 10 years, like, whatever was there was definitely comfortable in the location after enough time. But to know that there was no Now a female presence and a male presence, or at least something that could be both at different times or, you.

[Taylor]

Know, it's something strong enough to do that is sick.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Eva]

It feels like it's not just, like, one random ghost now. It's like. It feels like there's a bit of, like, a legion or something going on, you know?

[Morgan]

Right. And it's almost too. I. I just, like, never realized that this went on for such a long period of time because, you know, the other ones.

[Taylor]

And this was, like, before getting any help. Yeah, this is what they're experiencing that long.

[Morgan]

So I see where, like, why, at this point, we're getting to the place where, like, okay, we literally need to.

[Taylor]

This is getting crazy here. So at this point, they realized that they needed help. They needed someone who understood what they were truly dealing with. So in desperation, Janet attends a lecture at a local college. And it was here that fate maybe stepped in, depending on who you asked. Because sitting on that stage was a husband and wife d duo who were already making a name for themselves as some of the most infamous paranormal investigators in the world. And that was Ed and Lorraine Warren. And that is it for me. And we'll be picking up from here, part two on our feed.

[Christine]

Good job. Sorry I kept interrupting.

[Morgan]

You're.

[Eva]

Your storytelling is top tier. I'm like, thank you.

[Morgan]

So good.

[Eva]

I feel bad that mine's gonna be just kind of, like, riffing bullet notes.

[Christine]

Let me figure out what I think.

[Taylor]

I think that that'll work out perfect, though. And because, like, there's not a lot on the Ed and Lorraine, like, you can sit there and watch through their interviews, which are crazy, but, like, you also want to, like, not do that at all.

[Eva]

I actually, at. At some point, forever ago, I actually did, I think, like, a two or three Parter just on the controversies of Warren.

[Christine]

So it was crazy.

[Eva]

So years ago. I'll dip my toe in it for everyone.

[Taylor]

But I'll, I would love for you like if you could, could.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Get the name of like whatever demon this is that Ed and Lorraine say. Like I'd love the demonology on it without maybe haunting us all. I think that would be also a good part to.

[Morgan]

We will have the house cleansed.

[Taylor]

I'm going to be cleansing.

[Christine]

I'm going to bring like some candles. Bring some.

[Taylor]

Maybe all of this is just the Susquehanna seal or like the.

[Christine]

Oh my God, it's just like a man. Or like the Suon screamer.

[Eva]

No, I'm very excited to, to, to carry it on over on your episodes.

[Christine]

Good job.

[Morgan]

Get naked.

[Christine]

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[Eva]

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[Christine]

My favorite part is that it arrives at my door so I don't actually need to leave my home. Yes, that's my favorite part because if I walk into a wine stor like, ooh, ah, this pretty label, like I don't know, right. You do your taste profile and everything and every wine they've sent, I've been like, damn, that's good. It's just the best. I've loved them for years and we're so excited that they're a sponsor. Now is a time to join the Naked Wines community. Head to nakedwines.com drink, click enter voucher and put in our code drink for both the code and password for six bottles of wine for just 39.99 with shipping included.

[Eva]

That's $100 off your first six bottles at nakedwines.com drink use the code and password. Drink for six bottles of wine for 39.9 99. If there's one thing I hyper fixate on, it is throwing my money at things that I don't need to and.

[Christine]

Then not worrying about it afterwards and.

[Eva]

Then never thinking about it again. Making a midnight purchase and then four years later, I'm like, why don't I have any money? There were so. There were so many things I did not know I was spending my money on regularly. And Rocket Money went, I'm gonna hold your hand when I say this. I'm gonna fix it all for you. Because you obviously don't know what's going on.

[Christine]

I feel like the fear of going into your financials is like, oh, I'm embarrassed. I don't even wanna know what I'm spending. You know, like, it's like this fear of like, ooh. They're like, hey, babe, it's okay. We all do this. You know, it's okay.

[Eva]

Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[Christine]

It's just so cool. They have this dashboard that lays out your total financial picture too, which is really helpful. It includes bill due dates, paydays. It's very easy to digest. It's colorful.

[Eva]

Yeah. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million and canceled a subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year. When using all of the app's premium features, you know that a subscription service hates to see Rocket Money coming. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with rocket money.com, go to rocketmoney.com/drink today.

[Christine]

That's rocketmoney.com drink. Rocket money.com drink.

[Taylor]

Okay, Taylor, what do you have for us today?

[Morgan]

Thank you so much for asking me, Morgan. I would love to tell you. In fact, no, I wouldn't like to tell you every. Everyone, please, I'm sorry. We can no longer be fun anymore. So.

[Eva]

Okay, that was nice.

[Christine]

We've reached that part of the show.

[Morgan]

But we will be cutesy in the beginning because I love hearing about people's lives. So it's 2001 and we are in Aetna, New Hampshire, which was originally named Mill Village. And is this small community within the town of okay, is it Hanover?

[Christine]

Hanover.

[Morgan]

Okay. And that is actually the home place days of Dartmouth College.

[Christine]

Okay, can.

[Eva]

Okay, before we get cutesy about people, can I. Can I Jump in with a little anecdote about Hanover slash Dartmouth College.

[Morgan]

Please come on in.

[Eva]

Once upon a time, Christine and Eva and I were on tour, and it was a very snowy day. And I was my plan. When we were on tour, we happened to be hitting most of the areas where I. We would be passing by an Ivy League hitting college. Huh?

[Christine]

You said, hit it. He said, hitting.

[Eva]

Oh, hitting. Hitting up all the areas where we might be passing by an Ivy League college. And I was like, on principle, since there's only like eight of them, I want to get all a shirt from each Ivy League, please. I want a Harvard one, a yellow, just to say that I did it. We were. We happen to be passing through Hanover or nearby, and I was like, I need this Dartmouth shirt. I'm very excited about it. However, it ended up not happening because it was very snowy. And Christine is the best driver out of all of us. So this is not on Christine. However, she was behind the wheel and the car. The roads were very icy. We maybe crashed into a snow bank on the side of the road. The whole day got completely derailed. But every time I think of Hanover or Dartmouth at all, I just think, oh, boy. We.

[Christine]

Well, that's why when you bad day.

[Taylor]

Never got your shirt.

[Christine]

H. Oh, did you ever get your goddamn shirt for the rest of the day? No, I never got this shirt. All M talked about after that was that they never got their shirt. No, when you said m and then we all hit and I was like, hit what? And I thought you were gonna say a snowbank. And then he said, oh, all the college towns. And I was like, oh, I see. We're about say we all just hit a snow bank. But anyway, yeah, that's why I got really mad.

[Morgan]

So it was just you two and.

[Eva]

Eva and they car and Eva's fiance.

[Morgan]

Have killed to be in the back of that car.

[Christine]

No, Ray was about to kill all of us being in the back of the car. And also I will add that M. Really, really.

[Eva]

What's gonna happen here?

[Christine]

So they were on the phone with Katie, our admin. That's why I almost said Katie was in the car because she was on the phone.

[Eva]

Oh, Eva was on the phone with Katie about.

[Christine]

We were trying to figure it out. And then, like, literally, I just, just. I said, here we go. Here we go. We were just like skidding off the road straight.

[Eva]

We knew it was going to happen. We knew.

[Christine]

And just. We all were, like, watching our live flash before eyes. I'm just like plucks the phone out Diva's hand and goes, katie, can you send emergency services to mile marker 141? And we're, like, spinning out, and it's like the last. And then. Anyway, there we go, back into the snow bank. But yes, Hanover, we're familiar. Yeah, unfortunately, we're rather familiar with it.

[Eva]

I'd really like the end of the story to be you presenting me a Dartmouth College shirt. And I've gotten you Christine. Since we've got about a couple weeks.

[Christine]

I was gonna say, God, there's a break between the two, because that's gonna take some shipping.

[Morgan]

You're going to, like, M's gonna have to pull up at the recording in the show.

[Eva]

I actually, honestly, at this point, I might just buy myself one and wear it to our next recording on principle.

[Morgan]

So this was the nudge you needed then, I think. Welcome.

[Eva]

It was a sign. Okay. Anyway, that's. That's the anecdote.

[Morgan]

But we love.

[Christine]

I'm sorry, I'm.

[Morgan]

I will tell you that the first time I ever heard that story, when you guys told it on the podcast, I was pissing my pants laughing because y', all, like, it was so fresh and your adrenaline was still behind the telling. The best part was, like, Yalls. Two different reactions completely, like, as the car. Car was just. Just going down.

[Eva]

The car was just literally.

[Christine]

Morgan, how did you know what, like, goodbye, everyone. This is the end. Goodbye.

[Eva]

We had just driven past a mile marker, or we. I. I mean, honestly, the best part about a Michael marker is, like, every, like, half a mile it has. So it wasn't too far to be.

[Christine]

Able to see the way. You just kind of was like, okay, here we go.

[Taylor]

I am waiting emergency services to mile marker 141.

[Eva]

Pretty minus situation where. Where I just. That someone was on the phone who was willing to help us. And I went, excellent, because we need help.

[Morgan]

Me and Morgan are both, like, pretty good in a crisis. But our biggest problem is that we are laughing the entire time like, this is. This is no way that this shit's happening to us right now. Like, this is ridiculous.

[Eva]

I laugh later. I'm like, I need to get it together and get myself out of this situation. And then once I'm out, I can look back and laugh on how bad that was.

[Christine]

Like, the delayed trauma response is laughter. I think the immediate trauma response is, I gotta figure this out now. Survive.

[Eva]

Survive.

[Morgan]

Pick up the phone. We're calling 911. I'm cagling on on dispatch. Like, so.

[Christine]

Like, when you get a murder mystery made about you online everyone's gonna be like, listen to that.

[Morgan]

Why the was she laughing so much?

[Christine]

Clearly.

[Taylor]

Clearly guilty.

[Eva]

You know, if you for some reason grieves, if you're ever the subject of a true crime podcast, instead of saying like, oh, she lit up a room, we'll be like, she was laughing the whole way down.

[Christine]

She lit up a room with her laugh. Loud, loud laughter.

[Morgan]

And her like Tennessee Taylor tornado as she's trying to like, fix anything ever. Like Tasmanian Devil. Right?

[Christine]

She really, she really met rollers. She meant well, you know.

[Morgan]

She did, yeah. She was just a mess, you know.

[Eva]

Anyway, long story short, we are familiar with Hanover. The end.

[Morgan]

I'm. Well, I'm so glad you guys know exactly where I'm at because I. I do have snow in this story that's involved, so that's important. And you guys have first hand experience.

[Christine]

Yeah. Give me a content warning before that comes up, please. Thank you.

[Morgan]

Yeah, definitely. I'll be like. And trigger warning for those who are in the. Okay, so like I said, this is the home place of Dartmouth College. Am I saying it right? If I'm saying anything wrong, stop me, because you are. My brain reads it one way and it comes out.

[Christine]

Don't worry, I'll announce if Wilkes Barry is coming after us. Please, I will not let it happen.

[Morgan]

Or cross country because they will catch up to me.

[Christine]

I. Then I can't stop. But I can at least.

[Morgan]

Run.

[Christine]

Guys.

[Morgan]

Now, fun fact. Which maybe everyone knew, but, like my country ass bumpkin ass didn't. Dartmouth was actually one of the nine colonial colleges chartered before the American Revolution in 1796. And when I looked that up, like, okay, like, what do you mean?

[Christine]

M knew that they grew up in like colonial times or something, but I. I did not. So that's new to me.

[Morgan]

That's really interesting.

[Taylor]

I don't even know what that means.

[Christine]

No, I certainly don't either. Morgan.

[Taylor]

So there's only nine colleges.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And I'll tell you because it gets.

[Taylor]

Pretty probably Ivy now, I think.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Taylor]

Like, is it are is all.

[Morgan]

There's like women's schools too, and stuff like that. Huh.

[Christine]

Because the women's ones didn't become the.

[Morgan]

The Ivy Leagues, just the women's ones actually were shut down and absorbed and.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly.

[Morgan]

Now here's the problematic history directly behind that is. And like, who's shocked? Quote, Dartmouth was originally established to educate Native Americans in Christian theology and Anglo American ways of life.

[Eva]

Don't tell me that when I'm on the merch site.

[Christine]

Come on. I'm sorry. I promised you a shirt. I'm gonna get you like a labubu or something instead.

[Morgan]

I'm sorry. So sorry.

[Eva]

I'm pretty sure next time we record, it's just, I'm just going to have like a piece of paper that just says Dartmouth across a. Yeah, yeah, that's close.

[Morgan]

Duct tape across it. But anyways, we're going to leave that really weird, nasty time in our history. We're going to fast forward 231 years to. And one month. I'm sorry, 231 years in one month to 2001. Now Dartmouth is where 30. Nope, that is not a three. That is a six. 62 year old Hoff Xantoff. And it's spelled Christine. Come in here with me at this one. H, A L F. He's from Germany. Is it Hoff? H A L, F. Like half? Like half and half.

[Christine]

Never heard of that name. I have no clue. Half.

[Morgan]

Apparently it means the helper.

[Christine]

Okay, yeah, maybe, maybe it's pronounced help. I would say.

[Morgan]

Who has said it? Who has read it on? Almost sound like Hoff. Like H O F F. Weird. So if I'm saying it completely wrong.

[Christine]

Listen, I don't, I don't think I've ever heard that name in my life. And that might be a me problem, so.

[Morgan]

Well, good, that makes you feel a little bit better because I was sitting here being like, Christine's gonna be like this cannot speak and we're four sentences in. Thank God we're doing what you're doing right now.

[Eva]

We'll talk to you at the end.

[Christine]

You're literally giving me notes. Do not allow me any room to come complain about anything.

[Morgan]

Okay, so teaching there as a professor of geology and earth science is Hoff Zantop and his wife, 55 year old Suzanne Zantop taught in the German department and was the department chair for several, several years. Both were so incredibly loved by their peers, colleagues, students and community. Hoff and Suzanne were both born in Germany, but did not meet actually until they were each studying at Stanford university in the 60s. Hoff was a six foot tall outdoorsman and Suzanne was this five foot five ball of energy. Had this like crazy love for life and adventure. They were incredibly intelligent, both incredibly passionate about progressive politics, education and language. They were true soul mates, which is.

[Christine]

Like, like a romanticism. Sorry to interrupt you immediately, but about like two professors being married, being so smart from different departments and they like come for dinner and like drink wine.

[Morgan]

And like talk out there, like their, their lives literally feel like what you know like, when you're reading, like, a book about these two professors that fall.

[Christine]

In New England, kind of.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Taylor]

Taylor goes to dinner parties with.

[Morgan]

I have professor friends from Ivy League. And, like, I have no business being.

[Taylor]

They're all like.

[Morgan]

They're like, so what do you do for a living? I'm like, I talk about. About aliens and botanists.

[Christine]

I don't run across country, I can tell you that much.

[Eva]

I have friends who are lawyers and forensic pathologists. And I'm like, anyway, the ghost that I saw the other day.

[Morgan]

Exactly.

[Eva]

I'm just like, why am I here?

[Christine]

Science proves that ghosts can move through water, and everyone's like, oh, God.

[Morgan]

And I am like, dead ass. I think I'm just there as, like, the circus monkey at the end of the day. Like, they're like, we need the entertainment.

[Eva]

Myself, I often call myself the jester of the group, where I'm just like, everyone needs, like, a town crier. And I'm here to kind of tell you the gossip while you come back.

[Christine]

And tell me, you know, come back, report back to me.

[Morgan]

So funny. And I'll make it quick, but they invited us over for a cookout. Okay. I'm born and raised in East Tennessee. You say cookout. I'm. You know, let me bring dish. I've got my flip flops on. I've got on my jean shorts, and, like, I'm really comfortable. We pull up. They're in collared shirts tucked into slacks that are pressed with not.

[Eva]

That's not.

[Morgan]

I. I was like, guys, should I go home and change?

[Eva]

Like, like, Logan respected miracle.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Yes. I made, like, just, like, my grandma's, like, unseasoned. Very. Just, like, country ass Mac and cheese. Like, not. Nothing crazy. It's just, like, stuff that makes you feel good and you can eat when you're sick. And, like, it was hot outside, so I wanted to be a little cold without being, like, dry Mac and cheese. Anyways, we get there, they have zucchini grilled. I'm like, what are we doing here?

[Eva]

I know. We were at the gym on a diet.

[Morgan]

We were working out today. Like, what is happening? So then we're, like, all sitting around and. And I'm, like, so intimidated because, you know, I. I'm. I'm very insecure about what I'm about to say to all these people. There was the head of psychology who is, like, leading research right now on, like, the psychological makeup of someone who is coming out in 2025, and his husband is his, like, co researcher. I mean, just, like, Stuff that I have no business. I like, I should never be talking to these people. They're. They're probably like, let's analyze you, actually.

[Eva]

And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[Taylor]

You're just like, I. I would feel like they were actually seeing into myself.

[Morgan]

No, I really thought that they were analyzed, me being like, oh, and she craves it, but honestly, I'd be like.

[Christine]

Share your notes with me, please. Yeah.

[Morgan]

And like, the conversation was so good. So, like, I was just. And one. He, like, he's like our really good friend. He specializes in ferns and like every, like, the evolution. Is he 45? No, he just wrote a book. We bought it off Amazon. We're so proud of him. Like, it's just like, so good. I've learned so much about ferns and like, when my garden dies, I run down the street. I'm like, will you please come save my garden, please? And he comes and he saves it, but. And he takes it to the lab and he's like, oh, so we have this like, bacteria growing in it. Like, incredible. I'm. Guys, I'm telling you, I live this, like, really weird half life. And like this, like once a month, little dinner party situation I go to. And anyways, so every, like, that's just two examples. But like, think of that times a million on here. Okay? And the only other person that was there that wasn't like a professor and like a crazy, amazing researcher, like head of a department. He was. He's like an exec at one of the biggest financial firms out of la.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. Wow.

[Morgan]

So I'm like, I host a podcast called Queeps and Quiet.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And I have flip flops on.

[Eva]

Here's some mag could go back and forth. I have so many examples of that.

[Christine]

Too, where I was going to say.

[Eva]

What am I doing here?

[Morgan]

What am I doing here? Anyways, all that to say is that they're like, having, like, really adult conversation and I'm like, having a really good job listening to it, but I'm really intimidating. And they turned, they said something. I'm like four glasses of wine in, ready to go. I'm warmed up and. Exactly. And they're like, so, something, something, something. I'm like, oh, my God. Actually, let me tell you about this family drama I just found out about. Before I know it, I'm standing up in front of the tv, in front of everyone, everyone's bent forward, listening to, like, this like, crazy story I'm telling them that I cannot tell on a public platform. And it is crazy if I was telling you guys this story. You guys would be like, see, I.

[Christine]

They were like, don't you describe your podcast right now. If you ever doubt yourself, bring the damn drama.

[Eva]

As someone who feels often like just the personality higher in the room, I'm telling you, they could have all the degrees in the world, but they don't have the X factor, you know, they don't have the. You got to bring the razzle dazzle every now and then.

[Morgan]

And Logan, Logan's over there. And like when we left, he was like, on this part of the story, like, I had never heard that before. And I said, don't worry. That was me jazzing it up. I was playing a performance. Like just a little ask question, sir. Like that.

[Christine]

I say thank you and move on.

[Morgan]

Get them back in. Anyways, guys, I swear to God, we're actually going to get to this case now. I will shut up. That's just my favorite story to tell. I love being the jester, actually.

[Eva]

I'm telling you, it's great.

[Christine]

It's a good role to have, I think.

[Morgan]

Someone's got so someone's got to do it. They're true soulmates, these two. They're literally like what we're talking about, like in the movies, in the books that you see when you're, like, romanticizing the life of, you know, these people. Which is why it was no shock when the two got married in 1970 and had two amazing, beautiful, smart daughters together. Hoff was hired at Dartmouth in 1976, and Suzanne began working there after her earning her PhD from Harvard in the mid-80s. During this time, while raising their daughters, they lived a. They lived very close to the university or to the college in Hannah run over when and while there, they, like, hosted all of these dinner parties all the times they, like, would do debates at their house and everyone would come over, like all their students, all their colleagues, and have wine.

[Christine]

Taylor would show up, just.

[Morgan]

Listen to this.

[Taylor]

And then my great aunt.

[Morgan]

And then after that, Sit down, everyone. The. The panda coin. And that's the name of my lore story that I will tell you one of these days. It's about the panda coin. I passed one of them walking their dogs the other day and they were like, what happened to the panda coin? I'm like, I'll update you at the next.

[Christine]

Honestly, wait till. Yeah, wait your turn. Wait for dinner party.

[Morgan]

I'll come back. Okay. I gotta let it build.

[Taylor]

You have to invite me again.

[Morgan]

I gotta be back at the dinner party with the zucchini. And by dinner Party. I mean, their version of a cookout.

[Eva]

Because what the fuck was that, right?

[Morgan]

Yeah. Quote unquote cookout.

[Christine]

When you get invited to a dinner party, you better get like black tie ready. You know, just, I'm gonna be coming.

[Morgan]

In a formal gown when I get the Runway. Seriously. They're like, is that your prom dress? Why is it bedazzled? Tell me about your business. So they would host these dinner parties. They would do like debate, like debates there. They would discuss arts and culture with their colleagues and their students. But once their daughters grew up and they got, you know, older, Hoff and Suzanne decided that it was time that they left the hustle and bustle and they decided to settle down in the more rural, I can never say that word area of aetna. Purchasing a three bed, two bath, 2000. Can you help me with the numbers?

[Taylor]

2867 square foot home.

[Morgan]

Thank you. That was gorgeous. And covered in windows, which for the people on this side that we won't have copyright problems with. You guys can check out on Google Maps and the pictures I gave you in my little photo book.

[Christine]

Woohoo. I love the photo book.

[Morgan]

Which doesn't sound super private at all. You know, like covered in windows. But they didn't have any direct neighbors and was not visible. Right. Like if you look at street view, you can't even see the house from the road.

[Taylor]

Okay, so if you're on street view, interesting shaped house.

[Morgan]

It looks dope. It looks like it doesn't even like exist there. Like, I don't know when I would think of like a version Vermont or not Vermont. Where are we at? New Hampshire.

[Eva]

New Hampshire.

[Morgan]

Like I wouldn't think this, but maybe it does look like. But also when I think of that, I'm like cobblestone streets, bricks.

[Christine]

Like you're right.

[Eva]

Does it have like a water view behind it or something? Because I feel like the back part looks like a sun room or something.

[Morgan]

It's. So that's what the whole house looks like. It's all windows on all the walls. So it just looks out into nature, which is actually my next line here. So perfect. Those windows with the privacy of the nature is actually what st sold the xantops this home because they wanted to wake up feeling like they were in nature. That was a part of their like peace process. Like where they love to just like exist and feel like they were just like, you know, living in the middle of the woods like little fairies and just living this truly crazy beautiful life together.

[Eva]

So magical.

[Morgan]

Yeah, magic, magical. However, it didn't make them any less social or involved in their work or community as the. The road that they lived on was very, very popular for the commuters. So, like, for as much as they are getting out of the city, that is a main commuter road through there, despite its rural look and feel. And I have my little note here that says, hey, go check out the Google map thing that I sent you so you could better understand this.

[Taylor]

Yeah, it was nothing. You can't even even see the houses.

[Morgan]

Right. Google look at the satellite view so you could see how, like, separate they are. And then when you're down there, like, there's not a house, actually really wild from the street period.

[Christine]

See that? There's an entrance, like, a vague entrance of a driveway, but that's it. Yeah.

[Morgan]

And like, you can sometimes see if you go back in time, you know, on how you can look at different, like, pictures taken. Like, if it's winter, you can see, like, a corner of the house, but even still, then you cannot see anything.

[Christine]

You know, it's not, like, directly visible. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Right. So it's a morning of Saturday, January 27, 2001. And on the weekends, Suzanne and Hoff had a very. I love this part. Had a pretty typical routine that they rarely strayed from. When it came to Saturdays, Hoff would wake up early and open up all the curtains around the house to let in the natural sunlight so they could get beautiful views of the trees. So that would allow Suzanne to wake up with the natural light and be able to look outside into the forest surrounding their home.

[Taylor]

What a man.

[Christine]

I know, right?

[Morgan]

Literally.

[Taylor]

Damn.

[Morgan]

Literally my dream. And he would go get her a cup of tea and him a cup of tea. He would bring it in, he would set it on her bedside table, and then he would go get back in bed with her. And they would turn on the tv or they would open up their newspapers, and together they would enjoy their cup of tea. And then after, you know, like, finishing and then being like, okay, what are.

[Christine]

The plans for the day?

[Morgan]

Eventually, the two would get up and begin getting ready for the day. Suzanne would go around the house and turn on the radios as she did her Saturday morning household chore ritual, while Hoff would go into his study and read papers or articles or work on some things. The two would then meet for a late lunch cup of tea at 11am I'm sorry, a late morning morning cup of tea at 11am which was Suzanne's cue that she was going to begin their lunch, which she made homemade every single Saturday. It was Always a homemade soup that she would have ready by 1pm with cheeses and breads and little sides for them to enjoy alongside it.

[Eva]

This is the most charming New England moments.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Taylor]

Oh, really?

[Morgan]

Like, who wrote this book? How big, beautiful? Like, unreal. Nicholas.

[Eva]

It's like. It reminds me of, like, what. What the house next door to the Practical Magic House was up to, you know, Exactly.

[Morgan]

Like, there's witches going on, like, trying to revive a dead man underneath.

[Eva]

Like, the rest of us are just making ourselves.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Drinking our cuppa in the morning, looking out of the beautiful surroundings, trying to figure out where the fairies are.

[Christine]

Just with our soulmate. No big deal.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Just reading the paper with the love of my life. Like, oh, my God.

[Eva]

It's.

[Christine]

Whatever.

[Morgan]

Oh, so beautiful. Now I am getting a hold of myself because, like, damn, I love their Saturday morning routine. I wish I could walk you through all the way to Sunday, but I need to go back to 11:30am just before their second cup of tea that. What did I say? 11 oh, 10:30. We need to go back to 10:30am and I did write PM it is AM just before their second second cup of tea that they would have at 11am so at this point in time, Suzanne called, calls one of her and Hoff's best friend named Roxanna to invite her over for dinner that evening, which Roxanna immediately very happily accepted. Because one thing about Susanna is that she was an amazing cook. Yeah. And Hoff had stories that you would be so engaged in, so enthralled by that you would have no idea. Y' all just put down two bottles of wine. So, like, y' all were having a good time, you know, I'd be there. Sign me up. Where, like, there we go. I'll be there. Now, Susanna did warn Roxanna, and I know we have, like, Susanna, Roxanna. So. And I have heard many people refer to Susanna as Susan. So I might go back and forth, but just so we're clear, I am talking about Susanna when Susan. Yes.

[Christine]

Got it.

[Morgan]

But sometimes that Anna. Anna really bothers my adhd. So. Well, there we go. Now, Susanna did warn Roxanna that. That Hoff would be out at a birthday party for a colleague when she arrived to help Susanna finish up cooking, but would be joining them for the meal so they, you know, would have some, like, alone time. And.

[Christine]

Right.

[Morgan]

Obviously, Roxanna was like, oh, my God. So I got girly time with my girly bestie girl. Like, really pop. Like, let's go, baby. Let's do it. Perfect, perfect. So perfect, babes, I'll be there. In fact, I'll come early so we can have some more girl time together. So fast Forward heard it's 6:30 that evening. Roxanna arrives at the Zantops home with her famous homemade salad in hand and excited excitement for an entire evening with her besties. She gets out of her car, she makes her way up to the front door, trudging through the snow and her winter boots and her winter jacket with that cold salad in her hands and her purse. And Roxanna knocks on the door a few times. And she's waiting. It's freezing, freezing outside. She's got all this in her hands and no one's coming to the door. So she just tries the door and it's freezing in January in New Hampshire. So she just opens it. She lets herself down and she calls out to Susanna saying, like, hey, babe, I'm here. But she hears nothing back. Roxanna stops once inside the door so she can remove her boots, you know, like, knock the snow off of them. Hang up her coat and her purse at the end of the hallway where they had some racks before making her way down the hallway and into the kitchen. That was eerily quiet for the Xantops home. Like, if there was not a radio blaring, there was a conversation being had. Yes. Or like, you know, some clanking. Just like some craziness. Because.

[Eva]

Liveliness.

[Morgan]

Yes, liveliness. Yeah, because, you know, like I said, she was just like. Suzanne was this like, ball of energy. Everyone, everywhere she went, she was clinking and screaming and doing something. Just like having such a good time. It's like a ball of just light and light love. So she's like, that's really weird. Maybe, you know, she got in the shower. Maybe she stepped outside. I don't know what's going on. So she makes her way into the kitchen. Susanna's not there though. But so she places her salad on the counter and she just takes in the scene around her. There was food that was in the process of being prepared. It was bread, some chopped up veggies, some cheese strewn about halfway chopped, mopped up. And a pot of stew that was not on. On the stove.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Eva]

Okay.

[Morgan]

What stood out as weird, however, because, you know, you could see that and.

[Taylor]

Think if I walked into your house and it looks like that in the kitchen, I'd be like, that's Taylor.

[Morgan]

She got distracted.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, Right, right, right.

[Eva]

Or like someone needed something and so I had to turn the stove off and like pause on Everything. Yeah.

[Taylor]

But for someone that would definitely have had that up ready on time, right?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Eva]

And that's such a routine.

[Morgan]

Yeah, exactly. And that was like. The biggest thing is that it didn't smell like food was being cooked in the house.

[Eva]

Sitting for a long time.

[Christine]

Even gotten this. Oh, that's creepy.

[Morgan]

The vegetables were like, wilted from being out and dried. You know, like when you chomp a carrot, you leave it there for two seconds, it's it yet. Oh, exactly. Roxanna began calling out for Susanna and Hoff much louder than she had before when she first got there. And a little bit more panicked with no response. Once again, she began looking around the house when she noticed that the den, or hof study door was open and the light was on inside. Roxana made her way to the door and was shocked to see the state of the room. This was Hoff's pride and joy. It was always very curated and tidy, with hundreds and hundreds of books lining the floor to ceiling shelves. And Hoff's desk in pristine condition with his prized card table always prepped and dusted. But that was not the case. Instead, the room was in shambles. Photos, papers, books scattered around the room. The card table flipped over. Chairs on their side, side. And the bloodied bodies of both Hoff and Suzanne lying on the floor.

[Taylor]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

Roxanna didn't know what to do. She backed out of the room, screaming as she ran to the front door, threw on her shoes, her coat, grabbed her purse. Heart pounding as she ran out the door, through the driveway and into her car, fearing that the killer was still there. Yeah, and his house is so damn big. Yeah.

[Taylor]

And she's in the windows. And it's the windows.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

The window.

[Taylor]

When northeast sun goes down quickly, it's January.

[Morgan]

And also you're thinking, wait, she was just cooking dinner because she has no idea.

[Christine]

Halfway through. Oh, God.

[Morgan]

So she thinks that maybe the killer's still there. She drives out of the house, into the closest next door neighbor that they have, which again, like closest next door neighbor is a beautiful.

[Christine]

The main road. And they keep going, go out and.

[Morgan]

Then go left or right. And she's barely getting her car in park as she's, you know, running out of the car and up to the front door of the next house that she came to. She's banging on the door, she's screaming for help. And the neighbor was actually a doctor named Bob McCall McCollum. And he opened the door actually holding a glass of champagne with his wife, daughter and son. In law all standing behind him also still holding their glasses of champagne that were filled to the brim. Because you see it was Bob's 76th birthday. Oh geez. And they had just sat down for din dinner and were toasting to his birthday when Roxanne pulled in and was banging on the door. They sat down their glasses immediately. One began consoling Roxanna. One began calling police. And Bob with his son in law grabbed his medical bag and rushed over to the Zantops home. Unfortunately though, just one look at Hoff and Susanna. Yeah his bodies. He knew it was too late. But still though, because these were his friends. He checked out for a pulse only to find that their bodies were in the process of cooling.

[Taylor]

Wow.

[Morgan]

Oh, that is so horrible.

[Taylor]

Yeah, that's terrible.

[Morgan]

Terrible. Within minutes, officers from the Hanover Police Department, New Hampshire State Police and Grafton County Sheriff's Department had flooded the scene and shut it down. Detectives entered the Zantops home to observe the scene and make sure that the perpetrator or perpetrators were not. Not hiding. While others began interviewing Roxanna and the other neighbors. Now trigger warning because I am going to go into details about the state of the victim's bodies and the scenes. I will say it's not anything that is like. It's just gruesome. That and no essay or r. If anybody would only skip for those purposes and if you would like to skip I'd say about 30 to 45 seconds you could go on for because I'll just go on through this and I won't stop too much. So. Inside the home, detectives observe 55 year old Susanna lying on her stomach with. On the floor close to the study door with the knocked over card table actually resting on her calves and a large puddle of blood pulled beneath her head. She was wearing brown and black, a brown and black sweater with tan corduroy pants pants. And upon further inspection investigators determined that the blood had actually. The majority of the blood had actually come from a large slash across Suzanne's throat as well as stab wounds in her head and abdomen. With her head actually facing towards her husband, 62 year old Hoff who was found lying just a few feet away from Susanna or Suzanne on his right side with his head resting on the base of the. Of his beloved bookshelf. This was. This bookshelf that he was lying up against was actually now just painted in splatters of his blood. His face was ghostly white, completely drained of blood with a cut in the left in his left leg through his jeans and several, several Stab wounds to his head and chest, several of which punctured his heart and lungs directly. Both Hoff and Susanna would have died within seconds or even minutes of their attacks, both with both of the victims being. I'm sorry. With both of them being victims of overkill, meaning many of their wounds were actually inflicted post mortem. It was incredibly clear that this was very brutal and an extremely violent murder. But it was also sloppily done because lying on top of the now bloodied Birkenstock that had come off of Suzanne's foot during the struggle was a black plastic knife sheath with a second one matching it lying under a nearby chair.

[Eva]

And so they just kind of did it and then bolted and bolted. And it left behind super personal that there's so many wounds and that they were post mortem.

[Morgan]

So, yeah, if anyone. I don't like the first time I heard this case, it was actually more recent. I couldn't believe that I hadn't heard of this case prior. But the first time I heard of it, it was in, you know, last, you know, year and a half. And it was the. When I heard this, the first thing that came to my mind was Brian Coburger.

[Taylor]

I. Yeah, well, BK.

[Morgan]

I don't even want to say his name. The Idaho 4 college. I mean, the sheath, the overkill, the panic of it all, the sloppiness of.

[Christine]

It, the, like, unnecessariness of any of it. I mean, it's just like.

[Morgan]

And the chaotic. Yes, that's.

[Christine]

Did you. The first time? Because I know this case as well, and I. I haven't covered it, obviously, but not even in a missing 69th episode. But I do know it from, I think, case files where I heard it the first time.

[Morgan]

That's the first place I heard it.

[Christine]

And I remember thinking to myself, like, how has. How have I not heard of this? Because a lot of times, like, he does Australian cases, I'm like, well, okay, maybe. Maybe it's more culturally relevant there. But I remember being really surprised about this one because I also.

[Morgan]

About this one.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And that's the same way I felt about it, too, because. And especially when you had. When we had all those conversations at the time with Idaho as we go through this, like, just keep that in the back of your mind, because I feel like there's some things about it that are just.

[Christine]

I'd never, like, connected that. But I can absolutely see.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And just like, I don't want to say too much because we've never covered Idaho. We won't for several, several years. Years. We don't do active cases by. We still have never done even like Gabby Petito or anything like that. So we. In several, several years from now, if we still have a podcast, God willing, like, you know, maybe we can come back to this and do.

[Christine]

Well, you're not contractually obligated. I'm just kidding.

[Morgan]

Okay. And then in that moment, we just like verbally signed a 50 year deal. Yeah, exactly. And I'm also going to flip my legs around because my whole right leg is dead.

[Christine]

I get it. I feel like I keep like twisting, but my back is. I'm old.

[Taylor]

I'm finally real comfy now.

[Christine]

I need one of those chairs, man. I need a comfier chair.

[Morgan]

This chair is actually so comfortable. We got it from Wayfair.

[Christine]

I was going to say. Was that like a Sam's Club. It looks like saying you get Costco or that's.

[Morgan]

Yeah, that's what we liked about it. It looks like one of those. But they would deliver it completely put together and we were like, okay, well, yeah, that wins. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

I. I'm sitting on a. A. I'm in a nook and there's supposed to be a. A bench, like a cushions on the bench here. But every time the cushions are here, Hank climbs up and wants to sit with me and like is annoying the whole time. And so I have to.

[Christine]

Your bare back.

[Eva]

I'm. I'm raw dogging a hard piece of wood right now.

[Morgan]

I'm so sorry for your booty. I really.

[Christine]

Okay, well m. Does this apparently every week, so. Well, why don't you bring like one butt cushion?

[Eva]

I. Well, cuz I usually just grab the pillows from my bed and just sit on top of them. I just forgot to do it.

[Morgan]

I'm.

[Eva]

I'm fine.

[Morgan]

You can go get it right now if your butt hurts, cuz, you know, walk like a million miles, like too long.

[Eva]

No, I. It's actually.

[Taylor]

You got four more to go.

[Eva]

No, I. I don't.

[Morgan]

Good point.

[Christine]

No more than the realist. Don't forget about what you already did. You have four more to go, so.

[Eva]

I know.

[Taylor]

Well, I get that pillow.

[Eva]

Luckily, another consequence with my ADHD is if I'm too comfy, then I'll never get up. So I kind of have to always kind of sit in discomfort. So I will get up and be productive.

[Christine]

I do get that. So I used to record from my bed and then by the end I was like, down here? Yeah, you could only see my eyes. And I was like, actually this is really not conducive to working.

[Eva]

No, I did that a few times. I have the. The adhd. There's a rule for a lot of people that have ADHD to like, you never take your shoes off because then you can't get like comfy anywhere. You can't like be horizontal anywhere. And so I am in shoes and sitting on a very hard bench. So that way when we're done, I will actually get up and go walk. Otherwise, I'll just.

[Christine]

So your grandpa was right again.

[Eva]

Yeah. You know what I got back?

[Christine]

You got both ways with your shoes on.

[Morgan]

Yeah, I got my New Balances on. And we're having a good time.

[Christine]

It's a dad. We're having fun. We're having fun.

[Morgan]

It's gonna be so fun. Just pay attention, please. Like, that's like me in my head every day.

[Christine]

Like, just. Just please, please be. Be on my side today, and then we'll have a good time.

[Morgan]

Are you not profusely sweating?

[Taylor]

Oh, I'm all right. Why have the. The vent hits?

[Morgan]

Okay. I'm in hell right now.

[Taylor]

Seriously, you're laser. Laser focused.

[Christine]

What did she say? What did she say earlier? Are you. Are you my dick right now? My dick right now?

[Eva]

All because your mouse was. Had a dead battery.

[Morgan]

I know. And it's gonna go anytime I need to. I need to get it together actually using that thing.

[Christine]

Holy.

[Eva]

It has to be at 1%. Okay.

[Morgan]

It's my like, pointer right now. God, you are.

[Christine]

You live on the edge just like we do.

[Eva]

We're like, situation.

[Christine]

Like everything's about to crash, but let's just do it anyway.

[Taylor]

Let's see where we go.

[Morgan]

I think the keyboard's also on like 2%.

[Taylor]

The mouse was on 4. The keyboard was on 9.

[Christine]

Don't worry. Morgan's keeping track of the dying technology.

[Morgan]

Yeah, and what's worse is I noticed it last night. I said I should put that on the charger. And then I remembered it when I was in bed when I woke up to go pee at like three in the morning, I was like, I'm not going up there. That's too bad. Cuz then I have to walk down the dark stairs.

[Christine]

Scary at night. No, no. You don't go upstairs at night.

[Morgan]

Nowhere near a stair in my night time. No. Okay, where are we at? We're in a horrible spot. Sorry.

[Eva]

Everyone's no longer alive. So.

[Morgan]

Okay, what happens next? Let me get back in. In the.

[Eva]

In the zone.

[Morgan]

Okay, so was clear that this was very brutal and extremely. An extremely violent murder. And it was also very sloppily done because lying on top of the now bloodied Birkenstock that had come off of Suzanne's foot during the struggle was a black plastic knife sheath with a second match. Yeah, that's where I left off. With a second matching one actually being left under a nearby CH chair that was flipped over, like, tilted or out of place. These were. These were each more than a foot long and 3 inches wide.

[Christine]

And even long.

[Morgan]

A foot long. That's the big.

[Eva]

That's a machete.

[Morgan]

That's like a. Jesus, they're huge. I actually have pictures. And three inches, if you guys want to see three inches wide. Jesus. That's. I have to have a tape measure because I have no idea what.

[Christine]

You have to have, like, 16 tape measures.

[Morgan]

Measures from.

[Eva]

It's literally a machete.

[Taylor]

This picture looks like a regular knife.

[Morgan]

Yeah, well, that's because it's from ebay. That's the exact one that I found.

[Eva]

Wow.

[Morgan]

That. But you're saying it's 7 inches long just on the blade and 5 inches on the handle.

[Eva]

Okay.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

God.

[Taylor]

Yes, it looks like a hunting knife.

[Christine]

Yes, it does.

[Morgan]

Y' all are going to be not shocked, probably, when I tell you what this knife is. Anyway. Anyways. So more so than the knife sheaths being left behind, just to add on to this, like, sloppy mess that this was. There was this trail of blood that led investigators out of the study, through the house, into the foyer or whatever you want to call it, and out the front door, where investigators identified partial bloody boot prints inside and two more full ones outside, and eventually a total of five from around the house, indoor and out, as well as 19 finger and palm prints from the scene. Forensic technicians also took samples of blood droplets, hairs, and fibers from any and all surfaces inside and outside of the home. From what investigate investigators could tell, though, based on the scene in the kitchen and the state of the bodies, the couple had to have been attacked earlier in the day. And it had to have been.

[Christine]

Oh, I see.

[Morgan]

Before 1pm when she. You know, between 11.

[Christine]

Right.

[Morgan]

A.m. and 1pm when she was cooking the stew.

[Christine]

So that was her lunch she was cooking, not the day.

[Morgan]

This was their lunch, not the dinner. Because what she had had for dinner was still in the, like, refrigerator.

[Taylor]

Oh, damn.

[Morgan]

Okay. So upsetting, because I guess she had told Roxanna. And by the way, I'm. I think I might have gone back and forth saying, susanna, Suzanne, Susan, Roxanna.

[Christine]

I did notice, if that's any help.

[Morgan]

I did. I did do it a Few times. Well, I typed it and I think it's actually Suzanne.

[Eva]

Oh, okay.

[Morgan]

So not Roxanna on me. No, Roxanna and then Suzanne. But I think I'm getting the Anna. I told you guys that, like, really, like, I don't know why for me, when names are like that. So I apologize. But Suze, Suzanne, Susan, Susan. Susanna.

[Taylor]

Yep, Susanna. Incorrect.

[Christine]

And then there's Susan.

[Morgan]

Suzanne is correct. And then there's Roxanna. Okay, I'm really sorry about that. I just wanted to catch myself before we moved on any forward. I don't know why I wrote it like that. Anyways, so this was all just so much for investigators to take in. But with every new detail they learned or developed that development that was made at the scene, they couldn't help but think that this had to be a very personal and very targeted. Targeted attack. I mean, it's not like you could just like drive by the house and see it from the street and stalk it enough to know the couple's routine.

[Eva]

Yeah, it wasn't an opportunist situation.

[Morgan]

No, it does not seem like that. And there was so much hatred in the way and passion in the way that these two were killed. And it was sloppy because it clearly got out of hand quickly with emotion and rage behind it.

[Christine]

Right.

[Morgan]

And more so than all of the. Of that. The only thing missing from this home was Hoff's wallet. And it had like $320 inside. Yet the home was filled with incredibly valuable pieces of art. Jewelry, books, etc. I mean, these people would go on extravagant, like amazing vacations and not vacations like dinner, research, debate, art. Exactly. This was their life. Their home was like a museum. That's how they host it in their home. So none of that's taken. And I, they were like, I didn't know any of the artists that was listed on like stuff that I looked up and I, you know, looking back, I probably should have done that for the people that, you know, know art. But there was like all these like different pieces of art and like famous painters that they had pieces of, like original pieces of in their home and none of that was touched.

[Christine]

And like, even a dummy would know, like, jewelry is worth something.

[Morgan]

Right, right, exactly.

[Eva]

I know nothing. But I would if I saw something shiny or like an oil, you know, I'd be like, yeah, yeah. Or an oil painting or.

[Morgan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Eva]

But yeah, no, you're. When you add it all up, you're totally right. That no one would just stumble upon this house and pick it out and they Knew that they were home. And it was incredibly violent. Nothing stolen.

[Christine]

I mean, right, the wallet. Yeah.

[Morgan]

And you couldn't just, like, see it from the street and be like, oh, these people are rich. Like, I'm gonna. You know, these people have of a lot.

[Taylor]

Literally can't even see it.

[Morgan]

You can't even see it. And then on top of all of that, even Suzanne's jewelry was still on her.

[Christine]

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's unusual. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Not to mention the fact that the crime took place at, you know, between 11am and 1pm in broad daylight on.

[Eva]

A 2am robbery or something.

[Morgan]

It's not even like, when people are at work. It's, you know, and on. And even more so than that, there's no signs of a force entry. There's no struggle near any of the entrances to the home. This was. No, not a burglary gone wrong. This had to be personal. Someone wanted them dead. 100%.

[Eva]

Part and part of me. Well, I don't. I don't. I don't know anything about the story, so I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like they were looking for something specific in his library, like a document or something. Because also. Yeah, yeah. As if, like, they had torn it apart. But also, it feels very eerie to me that, like, the kitchen still looks very still, almost like as if, like, maybe she was, like, forced into the. The study with him or something.

[Morgan]

Right. Like, it's not like they were tied up or anything either. So that's even crazier about it. That, like, nothing else around the house.

[Taylor]

At the front door, she dropped her knife down, cutting up her veggies, and went and let them in. And then.

[Morgan]

But not even a struggle near the door. Like, they went back into the house, into the study.

[Taylor]

It's probably someone they knew. And then it had. Back here in the study. Here, I'll walk with you.

[Morgan]

I wanted to bring this by. And that gives exactly the questions that investigators had. Someone clearly wanted them dead. But who? And why?

[Eva]

And why? Why put them in this specific room? I feel like, trapped both in there before hurting.

[Morgan]

What was in there that they're looking for? But that's what no one, and I mean absolutely no one could wrap their minds around, because these two were incredibly loved by their communities. I mean, I went on and on and on about it in the beginning. Not because I'm trying to, like, make these people romanticize or whatever. That is truly what people wrote about them. I'm everything that I read about them. Every, you know, interview that was ever done by Someone who knew them or loved them. Any article that was ever written up about them just being great professors mentioned all of these things. However, a few people came to mind as potentially having something against the two. As this tragic news of the Xantob Bob's murders spread like wildfire through the Dartmouth community, rumors of possible affairs that were on. Like, I'm just gonna shut this down right now. We're not even gonna give it the time of day. This was immediately shut down. It was like published in a newspaper article. And the newspaper had to come back and like, redact it because it was a complete lie that someone had fabricated. So ridiculous. So not even. That doesn't even.

[Eva]

And they seem to really love each other. I don't know anyone who like cheating on their wife and having like a Sunday, 24 hour extravaganza all the time.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Morgan]

Yes. Like, if you're gonna be cheating on your partner, you're not gonna be like.

[Eva]

You'Re not gonna be home.

[Morgan]

Open up these beautiful.

[Taylor]

Yeah, you're not gonna be home.

[Morgan]

Yeah, exactly. You're not gonna be home. And if it's vice versa, and maybe it's her, she's not cooking homemade soup every day. I'm telling you that right now.

[Christine]

Right, Precisely, Precisely.

[Taylor]

Plan that night, though. What did he have to go to a party.

[Morgan]

He had to go to a party that evening. And he was gonna be there. There. I'm assuming it probably started like 4, and that he was going to get back home around seven, by the way, that they had, like, kind of talked about their time frame of everything and seven would be when dinner was ready. Also, in addition to, you know, like these little talks that are going on, suspicion surrounding a quote unquote troubled student that the Zantops had been, you know, counseling and had taken under their wing, came into talks and even talks of a possible revenge plot against Hoff from another geology professor. Professor came up. And this is a really. This is like. Of all the little rumors and talks that were being had, this one is probably the most. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, feasible or.

[Christine]

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

[Morgan]

So I'm gonna give you a long story short. And you know, my long story shorts are actually like, long story medium. So let's get into this. Long story long, very long. Exactly. So there was this guy named Stanley Williams, who was at the time a professor of geology in Arizona. And he was 14 years younger than Hoff and had also received his PhD in geology from Dartmouth. Well, Stanley's work had been Overseen by Professor Dick Stober, Stobier, Stoiber, Steuber. Professor Dick, who actually was the Professor Dick Ass. That's normally what we do. Dick S. Does it sounds.

[Taylor]

Professor Dicks.

[Eva]

Dicks something.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Professor Dick. Sto. That's what we're calling sto.

[Eva]

I appreciate for stumbling through every.

[Morgan]

I'm really. I'm trying to get there. I really am. And maybe one day we will. Who actually was the person that hired hoff back in 76. So Professor Dick had hired back. Back there. Okay. And it was no secret that Stanley really, really, really wanted Hoff's job at Dartmouth and almost resented that professor that they, like, both were close to for giving it to Hoff instead of him. Now, another thing about Stanley is that he was pretty famous within the geology world because of a tragic accident that he had gone through. So eight years prior, it's 1993. Stan Stanley had taken this small group of scientists, engineers, and tourists to a crater that sits beside an active volcano. And as they were, you know, taking in the breathtaking sites they have hiked up there, the volcano erupts.

[Taylor]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

It kills nine out of the 15 people in the group. Oh, my God. Injures several of the survivors, like gravely. One of these people being Stanley, who was incredibly injured. He was struck in the head with a rock that came out of the volcano and barely survived, leaving him with permanent brain damage. Holy. And this is where I'm actually gonna make the long story short here. Stanley was known to have. I just didn't want to spend too much time on this because I feel like it's a bit irrelevant. And it is irrelevant in the extreme, too. Yes. It's just like, I don't, you know, whatever, but, like, obviously from having a. A traumatic, permanent brain injury like that, you know, he suffered from violent outbursts, mood swings, and sometimes becoming violent physically due to his injury. But. And it also happened that Stanley was, quote, unquote, allegedly acting strange at the party. He had flown from Arizona to come to that party that Hoff was supposed to go to that night. It was, like, one of their mutual besties in the geology world, and he was acting weird.

[Eva]

So the thought is that maybe if he was erratic, he would have shown up at the house.

[Morgan]

Yes. Because apparently he went from, like, being really sad, and then when they were like, oh, Hoff's not here. He got, like, really happy. But, like. But, like, the thing is.

[Taylor]

But if you have, like, hatred for someone, then that he would have already.

[Morgan]

Been dead at that point.

[Christine]

Right.

[Morgan]

If he, like if he.

[Taylor]

If you show up at a party and you have hatred for someone and that person's not there.

[Morgan]

I mean, I'm celebrating. I'm sorry.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

It's just got to look pretty bad afterward when you're like, wait, wait, no, no.

[Morgan]

Hindsight's 20 20, of course. So, yeah, sucks. But obviously Hoff never made it to that birthday party. But very quickly, every single one of these rumors, tips and leads or little talks get shut down by police. They looked into every single one of them. Them. And they cleared every single one of the individuals that was listed in this and shut it down in the news. Okay, so. Good deal. Investigators really had to take another look at the crime scene and the evidence that they had collected because there was no one in the zantops life lives. That or nothing that they could find or that they had ever done that would put targets on these two's back. And if there was someone or something, investigators couldn't find it. And those in the zantops closest of close circles didn't know about it. So investigators turned to a brand new tactic. They began looking into what their attackers or attacker had left behind. Those knife sheaths.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Morgan]

Now, before we get into this, I just want to note here that these investigators did an amazing job working on this case because they kept a tight ass lid on the details to not jeopardize anything within the case. So no one knew anything. No one knew anything about these knives, knife sheets that were left behind or any fingerprints. Nothing. And I feel like it's really rare that we actually get to see them. Their flower. Flowers. So, like, I just wanted to do that here.

[Eva]

Very happy to finally give a detective some praise. Thank you.

[Morgan]

Yes. Because that was actually like when I was listening to this, and I'm sure you thought the same thing. When I heard it for the first time on case files, I was like, damn. Like, they really were, like, doing really good out here. Like every. Yeah. Going down every single avenue. Nope. Okay. We're not getting tunnel vision. We're moving on. We're moving on. We're moving on. Which we never get to see.

[Christine]

Very surprising.

[Morgan]

Yeah. So these here we go with the details on the sheaths. These were two SOG Seal 2000 knives. Okay.

[Taylor]

So the Susquehanna.

[Christine]

I was just like, where have I heard seals exactly? About as much as I know about it.

[Morgan]

Exactly what it is. These are actually combat weapons with 7 inch blades and 5 inch black contoured handles that are used by the Da Da Da Da Da Navy SEAL. The name.

[Taylor]

That'S where it's a military grade.

[Morgan]

It's a military grade.

[Christine]

Alarming.

[Eva]

You would think someone with a military grade knife. I must. I would. If you're going to wonder if they're in the military versus, like just buying it out of like a military shop.

[Morgan]

Right.

[Eva]

I would think you would also know to like, clean up your mess, you know, and like pick up the sheaths.

[Morgan]

And like, it's sloppy, though.

[Eva]

Messy. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Right. So it's. It's like kind of contradicting because it's like if you're expecting this to be someone that is military trained.

[Christine]

Right.

[Morgan]

Combat trained.

[Eva]

Feels like someone stole like their dad's knife or something.

[Morgan]

Right? Doesn't it? Exactly.

[Taylor]

Or they went to the local store.

[Morgan]

Right? Yes.

[Christine]

Especially like, oh, I. The biggest knife you have. It feels like something.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Oh, I want that. Or they probably went down to like the, you know, like, not Salvation army, but where they have those like, combat stores and you walk in and everything's like in plastic and it's like the crest of the branch of the military that it's from, like.

[Eva]

Yeah. It feels like it's someone who's like, not in the military.

[Morgan]

Yeah, exactly. Or someone that's like obsessed with their, like.

[Christine]

Wants to be. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Wants to be someone.

[Eva]

Someone who was maybe rejected from joining.

[Morgan]

Who couldn't get through buds.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. That feels very.

[Taylor]

That's an interesting rejection.

[Christine]

Criminal minds, like someone who wants to prove themselves.

[Morgan]

Right.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Love it.

[Morgan]

Exactly. So when the medical or the meo. So medical examiner's office examined the Xantops injuries, they were able to confirm that, yes, th. This, like, type of knife. Knife. That specific soda G sealed 2000 or whatever matched exactly to the injuries on their bodies. Like their wounds were perfectly aligned with those specific knives. Well, with the finger and palm prints not coming back with any hits in CODIS or any of the systems that they had at the time, these knife sheaths were literally all they had left for this investigation. Detectives learned that they only had been on the market market these knives for the last five years and were only made in Washington state by the company SOG Specialty Knives.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Morgan]

They contacted the company back in Washington state and they were like, yo, let us like, tell us everything single thing about these. And they said, okay, well actually those two specific sheaths that you have, the knives have been around for five years, but the sheaths, we have only had them out for 10 months.

[Eva]

Oh, ding, ding, ding.

[Christine]

What? Okay. So I feel like it's. Investigators are doing well. Well. And then also, like, things are Just fortunately lining up. Well, like, they left the right thing and it just so happened to be a knife, though. Yeah, that's good.

[Morgan]

Exactly. So the. They contact the company and they learn, you know, like, about this information. But unfortunately, these were like their most popular knives and sheaths since they had been.

[Christine]

Damn it. I spoke.

[Eva]

We were so classic.

[Christine]

I was like, yay.

[Eva]

I was really hoping you were gonna say, like, you won't believe it, but these are the only two that were ever made.

[Christine]

And we have their social, Social Security numbers.

[Morgan]

Exactly.

[Christine]

Identity.

[Morgan]

We have their home address.

[Eva]

We actually put an air tag in their pocket when they bought this. Only night.

[Morgan]

And we know where they are. Exactly. No, it can never be that simple. I wish it could. So, unfortunately, these are very, very popular and they were widely available on online and in stores.

[Christine]

So online you can go anywhere. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Still though, the company handed over a list of any and all shops that carried these knives and any and all online stores, sales that had taken place in that area. I feel like specific space states.

[Eva]

If you're gonna be a specialty knife shop, you have to be prepared that someone's gonna use it, right?

[Morgan]

Wrong. At some point, like someone's gonna leave a sheath behind because why the are y' all carrying sheaths? Like, not.

[Christine]

Seriously, that's like, like, that's one extra step in the.

[Morgan]

It's like taking off your phone case. Not that I'm trying to aid in a ba.

[Christine]

I mean, it points to the sloppiness again. Or like it does.

[Morgan]

Like just the not thought outness behind. Yeah, not thought outness.

[Christine]

That's. I mean, I got it. I was like. That's exactly the word.

[Morgan]

Right. So that's exactly what we were all thinking. Still, though, like I said, the company handed over all these lists and they included the in person sales for stores or the stores that carried them and online sales that were sent from these following states. New Hampshire, obviously, Connecticut, Vermont, Maine and New York. Because.

[Taylor]

Wait, pause. New Hampshire is Dartmouth, right?

[Morgan]

Yes. New Hampshire is where we're at. All right.

[Taylor]

Save a question.

[Morgan]

Yeah, no, confused. I keep doing.

[Taylor]

They all New Hampshire, Vermont. All of them there.

[Eva]

All six of them are real. Yeah. New England is just New England.

[Morgan]

They're just like kissing each other all the time.

[Christine]

So in love with each other.

[Taylor]

Yeah, they are. They are, actually.

[Christine]

That's embarrassing.

[Morgan]

Investigators then reached out to every single one of these shops on the list from these states and the online businesses requesting all of their sales records for those specific knives since March of 2000, which is when those sheaths were going out being sold. When those hit the market, this left them with a list of 5,000 sales of the knives in the surrounding area.

[Christine]

Jeez.

[Eva]

Great.

[Morgan]

And the large, largest percentage of these knives was actually purchased from an Massachusetts online store called, wait for it, fox firearms.

[Eva]

Great.

[Morgan]

So.G.gov.gov so that is where investigators started. I mean if I saw that, I would honestly like, you know what guys, let's just begin there.

[Christine]

We all know where this knife came from now.

[Morgan]

Yes. So that is where investigators started. The end owner actually of Fox Firearms was like very willing and ready to work with them. Which also I feel like is kind of where I feel like if this would have been a case that took place in the south, we would have had these like shop owners being very nothing till you get war.

[Christine]

I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Morgan]

So where's the meth at, dude? Like seriously?

[Christine]

Yeah, it really feels like you'd have more stumbling blocks down.

[Morgan]

Yeah. They would not be, you know, so willing to help.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So that is where investigators started, like I said. And the. I already said that. So sorry, Jack, I did that to you. The owner of told the detectives that. So the owner of the shop, he told the detectives that he had received his order of 124 knives from SOG, the like specialty knife company from Washington state in June of 2000. And since then he had sold only, only 84. And he handed over the entire list of those 84 sales to investigators. So that is the both of the knives and the sheaths.

[Christine]

So we're like that same one.

[Morgan]

We're getting closer, closer and closer to these people. If this is the right shot, if it right. So you know, that's the other thing too. So they hand, he hands over this to detectives and as they're scanning the list, one of the sales stands out to them immediately because less than four weeks prior to the Xantops murder, a person named James Parker purchased two of the knives online with the sheaths and he had them shipped to Chelsea. That's Chelsea, right? Or Chelsa Chelsea. Chelsea, Vermont. And guys, I also have that link or I have a screenshot to show you the distance because Chelsea is this really small town that's roughly 35 miles north. Wow. Aetna. But despite this being the closest address and time of purchase to the Zantops murders, they quickly learned that James, who actually goes by Jim Parker, was a 16 year old high schooler.

[Christine]

What?

[Morgan]

Even still though his parents even still though they went to his parents house to chat. And that is where Christine is Going to pick up surprise in part two.

[Taylor]

We are doing a two parter over here.

[Morgan]

We are going to.

[Christine]

And we just cut you all out at the moment that started tonight. I don't know. I think Eva went away and then it like. I don't know where.

[Eva]

It just made us three instead of four.

[Christine]

Here, wait. Oh, let me pin you, not me.

[Morgan]

Oh, no, no, no. Pin you. Now sing.

[Taylor]

Talk about jump scare.

[Christine]

I am so sorry. That was not my.

[Morgan]

Do a little performance.

[Christine]

Do a little dancy dance. This is embarrassing. I do not know how to get rid of this. Okay, well, I've made a huge mistake. I'm sorry.

[Eva]

That was very well told. Congratulations to Christine on the free notes.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

I'm so sorry, M. That's okay.

[Eva]

I.

[Taylor]

Hey, don't ever expect free nothing out of me.

[Christine]

That's fine.

[Eva]

That's fine. Me too.

[Christine]

I. I really love. I really loved it. I. I remember that story vaguely Taylor, but I forget the like, just how bananas as it was. So.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Sorry it's kind of awkward formatting, but.

[Morgan]

I don't know if you guys could see us still. But yeah, the. The case. Like, I'm sure when you listen to it on case files, it seems so daunting. Almost too. That's. I feel like that's why I almost like held off on it for so long. And. But it's so like. And as we get into your part next week, we will have a lot more of like the pieces. Puzzle pieces falling into place.

[Christine]

Right. I've got all those ready for everybody.

[Morgan]

Yeah, she's got them all the puzzle pieces. She's got them lined up.

[Christine]

I have like a jigsaw and I just went like real smooth around. Made a little jigsaw instead of a.

[Morgan]

Photo book to send to M and Morgan and I next or me. Next week it is going to be a literal puzzle that she makes on Etsy and sends to us.

[Christine]

And I'm gonna. I'm gonna charge.

[Taylor]

I would love that. While you told me this.

[Morgan]

Don't put that on Christine's head. Christine's like me. She actual. Don't. No, I will.

[Christine]

And I'm gonna tape a Dartmouth the word Dartmouth to M to a shirt and send it to M for the next recording.

[Morgan]

Thank you. It'll be great.

[Eva]

No, that was awesome. Thank you guys so much for coming on the show.

[Taylor]

Thanks so much for having us.

[Morgan]

This literally is our dream come true. This is so fun.

[Christine]

I know that's weird, but like, I don't think we really ever.

[Morgan]

It was ours first. Christine, you Know what?

[Eva]

That's true.

[Christine]

That's true.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

It was ours first.

[Morgan]

It's ours since 2018. And we live together in our university of our.

[Christine]

The captains of our. I forget.

[Morgan]

We'll die. We'll die.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

We need to make, like, an 80, not 85.

[Taylor]

A parapod chat.

[Morgan]

An ATWD. Alpha Tau Delta. Delta. Wait, no, I forgot the W. What's a W in Greek?

[Taylor]

Para.

[Eva]

I don't think there is one.

[Morgan]

Let's make up one.

[Taylor]

Paralytic pods.

[Morgan]

Par.

[Taylor]

Paralynic pods.

[Morgan]

Paralytic.

[Christine]

Paralytic. Is that a word? Panhellenic panel. Oh. Oh, Is that how you say.

[Taylor]

That's like, the head of all the sororities. Panic.

[Christine]

I thought it was Panhellenic. Okay, I'm stupid, but it.

[Morgan]

I think some people do say Pan. Helenic.

[Taylor]

Do you guys like the Hunger Games?

[Christine]

Yes.

[Eva]

Where are we going with this?

[Christine]

I love.

[Taylor]

I need to know if you were to go or if you get on your TikTok right now and you searched Hunger Games like, og Tick Tock page, Can you see their content or not?

[Morgan]

What?

[Eva]

What?

[Christine]

Why are you blocked?

[Taylor]

It's this. It's this whole ordeal that if you can still see their videos, then they've selected you for the capital. And if not, then you're in a district.

[Eva]

If I don't look, do I. Am I technically rescinding the invitation?

[Christine]

Yeah, right.

[Morgan]

Like.

[Christine]

Okay, I think they're trying to place.

[Taylor]

A point on, like, censorship. Just, like, look up how Hunger Games on Tick Tock.

[Eva]

Hunger Games.

[Taylor]

Sorry, it's just you said pan.

[Christine]

Yeah, no, I'm gonna pan into this right now.

[Eva]

The account or just the video?

[Morgan]

The account.

[Eva]

Okay. Hunger Games. I can see Hunger Games.

[Christine]

I can, too. Are Em and I moving to the Capitol?

[Taylor]

It looks like we are.

[Morgan]

I only have this.

[Taylor]

Let me see.

[Eva]

Oh, no.

[Morgan]

Oh, no. Is that it?

[Taylor]

Yeah, but people are like.

[Christine]

Taylor, that's what mine looks like.

[Taylor]

People are actually, like, getting. Getting blocked from Hunger Games.

[Christine]

That's such a good marketing strategy, though.

[Taylor]

The chosen ones.

[Morgan]

Oh, so we're going.

[Eva]

You know, already, as a Jew, I was already a chosen one. And now I. I guess for Hunger Games, it's just double it or nothing, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah. How does it feel?

[Morgan]

Double it and pass it on to the next.

[Eva]

Yeah. Please, God, please.

[Christine]

I can't wait to hear the song, though. I will say so. It's in Yiddish. Oh, even better. Okay, side note. What if I know that we've already talked for a million hours? What if we do? What if we pitch, like, the Yappy hour is like a blooper reel of just all the Please. Does that make sense? Because then we can, like, take out big, long portions that were.

[Eva]

Poor. Jack is fine because he already deleted everything, and I should go get it out.

[Taylor]

Someone tell Jack.

[Christine]

I was going to say Eva.

[Morgan]

Will.

[Christine]

He's gone. Eva's gone.

[Eva]

He was gone, everyone.

[Christine]

Yeah. I love that the monkeys have run. What do you call it? The monkeys are running the zoo. They've let us take over the. Anyway, because that way, I feel like we can get everything into, like, a funny situation without, like, compromising any storytelling or anything like that.

[Morgan]

I think so, too. And plus, like, what else? We've talked about everything.

[Christine]

I know, right?

[Morgan]

I'm like, the role.

[Christine]

The amount of singing like that happened was, like, more than so long that.

[Taylor]

Eva was like, that is.

[Christine]

WI FI provider was like, you are canc. You're cut off.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God, Jack, I am so sorry.

[Christine]

Thank everybody. Thank you. We derail. We derail. We love you guys. Thank you so much.

[Taylor]

We love you guys.

[Morgan]

This is so fun. And to all the listeners out there, this could be you one day. Look at me.

[Christine]

And they're like, no, no.

[Morgan]

Say it ain't no.

[Christine]

We don't want you next.

[Morgan]

Thank you, Knoxville. Thank you, boozers and shakers. Thank you, boozers and shakers. Everyone go check out.

[Eva]

Everyone go check out creeps and crimes.

[Morgan]

Please do.

[Eva]

Especially if you want to hear the rest of these cases.

[Christine]

I can't wait to hear the rest of the case that I'm.

[Taylor]

Yes, you're actually forced to check us out.

[Morgan]

You're welcome.

[Christine]

That's. And. Oh, hey, wait, that's.

[Eva]

I'll start again. Hang on. And that's receipt.

[Morgan]

Why we drink.

[Christine]

Drink. That was pretty.

[Morgan]

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much, she got a seat close enough to actually see and.

[Christine]

Hear them, sort of.

[Morgan]

You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to. Travel savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.