Episode Overview

Podcast: And That's Why We Drink
Hosts: Em Schulz (hosting), Christine Schiefer (on hiatus)
Guest Co-Host: Morgan from Creeps and Crimes
Episode: E452 — "Sleep Paralysis Fashion and Pick Me Ghosts"
Date: October 5, 2025
Theme:
This special episode is part of the "Peroween Invasion of the Host Snatchers" crossover event. Em and guest host Morgan go full-on paranormal—without a true crime counterpart to reel them in—focusing on infamous sleep paralysis entities (especially the Hat Man), sharing personal stories, listener encounters, and deep-diving into haunted hotel lore. Both hosts explore the chilling intersections between nightmares, folklore, memes, and real-life hauntings, all with the show’s trademark banter and humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

[03:00] Peroween: Podcast Host Crossovers

• Host Swap: The episode is the third of a six-part crossover called "Invasion of the Host Snatchers," a multi-podcast event where hosts swap shows to "collide" and collaborate across the spooky podcast community.
• There's friendly behind-the-scenes chat about naming these events and supporting each other's merch lines.
  • "Eva loves a name. I swear she Parapod presents Para Ween Invasion of the Hostnashers Episode three..." (B [03:27])

[06:05] Why We Drink This Week: Dog Drama & Pet Parenting

• Morgan's Story: Her golden retriever Ollie "faked" an injury just as her partner was about to leave. Morgan describes vet panic and the anxiety of being convinced her dog needed serious medical attention, only for him to make a miraculous "pick me" recovery when her partner returned.
  • "He coordinated as he being a pick me because he saw a suitcase getting packed Thursday night, and he was like, yeah, my hip hurts, so let me... let me just lift it up. So I got conned." (C [10:20])
• Em’s Story: Em had to board rescue dog Hank for the first time and worries that the dog thinks he’s been abandoned. Hank also broke the backyard fence by running into it.
• Shared Pet Woes: Both hosts bond over their "Velcro dogs," the emotional intensity of dog parenting, and the chaos pets bring into daily life.

[22:22] Main Topic: The Hat Man & Sleep Paralysis Entities

• Why Hat Man? Morgan chooses to spotlight the Hat Man, a shadowy figure seen during sleep paralysis, noting both hosts have referenced him but never done a deep-dive.
• Personal Encounters:
  • Morgan shares vivid sleep paralysis stories, including an early experience with a shadow figure, possibly the Hat Man, and a doppelganger incident in college.
    • "It was the first time I had sleep paralysis. ...there was this figure in the corner by that door, and it was, like, slowly approaching me." (C [24:30])
  • Em confides their own sleep paralysis "shadow person" experiences, but never saw a hat—just a bald figure looming over the bed.
    • "It was literally as if I was seeing someone's shadow and I couldn't see the person. ...They never approached me; I would just wake up and they were already hovering over me." (B [28:15])
• Dream Logic & Astral Projection: Discussion of whether sleep paralysis visions are "astral projection," defense mechanisms, or even glimpses into a "fight" in another dimension.
• Humor & Sibling Rivalry: The hosts riff on the idea of "sympathy injuries" between their pets and swap scare stories from pet mishaps and dreams alike.

[33:00] The Hat Man: History & Phenomenon

• Global Folklore: Roots of Hat Man connect to worldwide legends of shadow people, the "night hag," and liminal, sleep-based demons.
  • "Cultures around the world told stories of these nighttime spirits or shadow beings..." (C [33:07])
• Modern Emergence:
  • Shadow people lore exploded in the 1990s–2000s. The Hat Man archetype became widespread after the 2001 Coast to Coast AM radio show, with listeners submitting eerily similar images.
    • "This broadcast is often referred to as the starting point of taking shadow people from this niche... and turning them into something collectively speculated about..." (C [37:45])
  • The Hat Man is described as tall, shadowy, featureless except for a distinctive hat (fedora, top hat, or brimmed hat), and sometimes a trench coat or cloak.
  • He's reportedly seen in three main contexts: sleep paralysis attacks, hauntings, and—thanks to meme culture—Benadryl-induced hallucinations.

[43:40] Meme, Medicine, & Madness: The Benadryl Hat Man

• Internet Culture:
  • During COVID lockdown, memes about "seeing the Hat Man" after taking too much Benadryl (“Dph”) go viral on TikTok and Reddit.
    • "There is literally a saying that says, 'Don't take too much Benadryl or you'll meet the Hat Man.' ...The Hat man is practically their mascot." (C [45:28])
  • Both hosts caution against trying this on purpose—it’s dangerous and can be deadly.
• Delirium Hallucinations: The uncanny aspect of unrelated people reporting similar hallucinations (the Hat Man) under delirious states raises questions about archetypes and collective unconscious.

[47:32] Explaining the Hat Man: Science vs. Supernatural

• Scientific Theories:
  • Sleep paralysis, stress, the “intruder illusion” (triggered amygdala), and meme priming can make people "see" threats in the dark.
  • Pattern recognition and “stranger danger”—our brains interpret ambiguous shapes in the dark as a threat, often a "man in a hat."
• Paranormal Theories:
  • Hat Man as a “boss shadow person,” demon, or even an alien/interdimensional being (as popularized by Heidi Hollis’s book "The Secret War").
    • "Paranormal communities often describe shadow people as lesser entities, with the Hat Man as their more powerful leader or overseer." (C [50:27])
  • Hat Man as a tulpa—an entity created and sustained by belief and fear.
  • Reference to the Men In Black, and the whimsical idea that "their nighttime attire is the trenchcoat and hat."
• Listener Story—The Rake: Morgan references a viral North Carolina 911 call about a creature in a truck bed, likened to another internet entity, the "Rake."

[56:09] Listener Submission: Corey’s Nightmares & Trauma Healing

• Sleep Paralysis & Nightmares: Corey, a therapist, details a history of wild, prophetic, and terrifying dreams—vampire hot sauce packets, a faceless teacher, Hat Man resembling Dick Tracy, and visitation dreams from her late father.
• Sleepwalking, Night Terrors, & Boundaries: As a trauma therapist, Corey offers a mantra for protecting oneself from taking on clients’ trauma energy, emphasizing the idea: “I am a filter, not a reservoir.”
  • "I do not take on anything that someone gives me as my own and my job is to hold people in their experiences for the time I am with them, but I always have to give it back..." (C reading, [66:13])
• Hosts’ Reactions: Em and Morgan express awe at Corey's power to 'fight the Hat Man' and marvel at the cinematic quality of her dreams.

[71:50] Ghost Story: The Emily Morgan Hotel, San Antonio TX

• Personalized Spooks: Em finds a “perfect” case—The Emily Morgan Hotel (named after both Em and Morgan), across from the Alamo and formerly a hospital with morgue and crematorium.
• Haunted Details & Origins:
  • Designed in 1924, 13 stories, notable history involving the real Emily Morgan, towers with grotesques depicting medical ailments.
  • Most haunted floors: 7th, 9th, 12th, and 14th (the building skips 13, but 14 is technically the 13th).
• Hauntings Referenced:
  • Hospital smells, shadow people, a crying woman in white, impressions on beds, electronics acting up only when ghosts are acknowledged, and faucets that run blue, possibly due to old medicinal dyes (methylene blue).
  • An extra-creepy incident where someone sees a hospital scene out their door, only for it to vanish seconds later.
  • Elevators taking guests (and sometimes no one at all) to the off-limits basement morgue—all by themselves.
• "Pick Me" Ghosts: Morgan and Em jokingly label the ghosts as desperate for attention:
  • "This hotel's filled with Pick Me's, let's be so for real. [They're like,] sorry, we're not turning off the water until you call the front desk. Here's your bath, but you better say thank you or else I'm gonna overfill it." (C [106:06])
• Haunted Hospitality: The hotel previously sold "Room With a Boo" packages and leaned into its spooky reputation—an idea both hosts hope gets revived.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Hat Man phenomenon:
  • "He's not a creature from a movie, and he's not just some spooky story passed down from campfires. He's something far stranger. So today, I'm gonna be talking about the Hat Man." — Morgan [23:00]
• On Benadryl memes:
  • "There is literally a saying that says, 'Don't take too much Benadryl or you'll meet the Hat Man.' ...The Hat man is practically their mascot." — Morgan [45:28]
  • "If Benadryl has the chance to do the funniest thing in the world... If they just leaned into the Hat Man shit..." — Em [45:31]
• On dream logic:
  • "What if we're actually astral projecting in a way as, like, a protection way? ...While we're resting." — Morgan [27:34]
• Listener Corey’s mantra:
  • "I am a filter, not a reservoir. I do not take on anything that someone gives me as my own and my job is to hold people in their experiences for the time I am with them, but I always have to give it back to them before they leave." — Corey (read by Morgan) [66:13]
• On haunted hotels:
  • "I hate when there are buildings like this that exist and someone goes, you know, we should turn this into a place where everyone goes to sleep. That's like the worst idea." — Em [81:18]
• On hotel ghosts:
  • "This hotel's filled with Pick Me's, let's be so for real." — Morgan [106:06]
• On facing paranormal prankiness:
  • "'My favorite phrase… She's always there, whether or not you want her to be.'" — Em [94:35, on the 'woman in white' ghost archetype]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:00] – "Host Snatchers" crossover explained, celebrations, and merch.
• [06:05] – "Why We Drink" segment, with pet-centric chaos.
• [22:22] – Main Story: The Hat Man — background, personal stories, theories.
• [43:40] – The Hat Man goes viral: Benadryl and meme culture.
• [47:32] – Science vs. Paranormal: Explaining the Hat Man.
• [56:09] – Listener story: Corey’s nightmares and trauma boundary wisdom.
• [71:50] – Haunting of the Emily Morgan Hotel: history and ghostly encounters.
• [109:59] – Paranormal blue bathwater & hospital dyes.
• [112:24] – Elevator hauntings and time-slip hospital episode.
• [116:23] – Hotel’s ghost-themed packages and closing banter.

Episode Tone, Language & Style

• Banter-heavy and deeply conversational, full of offbeat humor, pet stories, and personal vulnerability.
• The episode balances humorous skepticism, sincere curiosity, and sincere respect for the uncanny.
• Both hosts blend researched history, internet culture, and personal experience, creating an accessible yet spooky atmosphere.
• Listener stories are treated with warmth and gratitude, and the boundary between fun and earnest is playfully maintained.

Summary for the Uninitiated

If you’ve never listened to a And That's Why We Drink or Creeps and Crimes crossover, this episode is a perfect sampler of both shows’ strengths. Hosts Em and Morgan, both keen weirdos and skilled storytellers, dedicate the episode to those strange moments where nightmares bleed into reality: sleep paralysis, the global Hat Man phenomenon, and the desperate antics of attention-seeking ghosts in a haunted hotel.

From personal sleep demons to internet memes, from dog parenting to haunted elevators, the episode delivers a layered exploration of why the world is both terrifying and hilarious. Standout moments include the insightfully funny "Benadryl Hat Man" divergence, a therapist’s wisdom on trauma boundaries, and the detailed walkthrough of haunted hospitality—all wrapped up in cackling, loving banter.

Skip the ads, but don’t skip this episode if you want:

• Spooky season cross-podcast chaos
• Fresh takes on dream monsters (and the memes they spawn)
• Relatable pet disaster stories
• The science AND magic behind why we see things that go bump in the night
• A haunted hotel tour built just for the hosts’ namesakes
• Empowerment in drawing boundaries—with the living and the dead

Why do they drink? Because the world is a weird, wild, haunted mess, and these hosts wouldn’t have it any other way.