E453 Corporate Birthday Winks and Designated Pony Drivers

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: And That's Why We Drink
Episode: E453 Corporate Birthday Winks and Designated Pony Drivers
Date: October 12, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer, Em Schulz

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Overview

This episode kicks off the hosts’ first official October show together, diving into spooky season with a classic blend of ghostly tales and true crime—Irish style! Em brings a haunting story of Dublin's Hellfire Club, while Christine recounts the tragic, unsolved disappearance of Irish child Mary Boyle. In between, the duo share hilarious life anecdotes, parenting adventures, and their trademark banter about everything from birthday cakes to haunted pubs to tie-dye chaos.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Banter, Life Updates & Birthday Talk (Begins ~04:00)

• Christine shares Leona’s 4th birthday highlights, discussing kids’ birthday politics and Leona’s “corporate winks.”
• The hosts riff on childhood embarrassing moments, school memories, and high school fashion.
• Christine describes the “Gabby’s Dollhouse” party, solo movie theater experience, and Leona’s endearing birthday gratitude.
• Em updates listeners on their pet boarding stress and upcoming family reunion in Florida, joking about too much “Linda time” (their mom).

Notable Quotes:

• "She just looked at it and said, 'I think this may be the best one yet.' And we were like, okay!" – Christine, on Leona’s gift opening (14:30)
• "I finally feel like we’re on the same page." – Em (04:59)

Memorable Moment:

• Leona’s new “corporate wink” to thank family for gifts, delighting and amusing everyone (14:10–15:00).

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2. Why We Drink Segment & Icebreakers (Begins ~16:00)

• Christine’s reason to drink: celebrating Leona’s birthday (with plenty of D. Peppys) and bracing for hosting a kids’ party.
• Em’s reason: anxiety over boarding their dog and prepping for back-to-back cross-country family trips.

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3. Spooky Season & Story Transition (Begins ~23:07)

• Both realize it’s their first October episode together and officially initiate “Halloween mode.”
• Em solicits Halloween-themed ghost story ideas from listeners and laments the challenge of finding fresh content.
• Comic riffing on running out of “witches, jack-o-lantern, Dracula” origin stories.

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4. Paranormal Story: The Hellfire Club, Dublin (Begins ~26:04)

Story Summary

• Em delves into Dublin’s notorious Hellfire Club, infamous for rumored occult activity, hedonism, devilish antics, and modern hauntings.
• Origin:
  • The Hellfire Club concept started in England in 1719 by the Duke of Wharton, spreading to Dublin’s Montpelier Hill.
  • The Dublin lodge is built on desecrated Neolithic tombs, adding curses and legends.
  • Early owners: William Conolly (Irish politician), then James Worsdale & Richard Parsons (founders of the Irish chapter).
• Club Reputation:
  • Elitist, anti-Christian, and famed for wild parties, lewd behavior, and mockery of religion—the president dressed as Satan, mascot was a black cat, and “ghost pie” (pigeon pie) was served.
  • Urban legends include deals with the devil, especially around Lord Santry (a known, actual murderer) and other unsavory members.
• Paranormal Lore:
  • Most famous tale: A stranger revealed to be the devil during a card game; frequent tales of a “Dalmatian-sized horned black cat;” banshee-like screams in surrounding woods.
  • Later, fires damaged the property, which many attribute to the wrath of spirits or dark rituals gone wrong.
  • Modern ghost hunters and tourists report burning smells, red-eyed cats, oppressive dread, moving objects, and aggressive entities.
  • Ghost Adventures’ encounter: Aaron’s emotional collapse and claims of being grabbed by “Satan” (73:01).

Notable Quotes:

• "D.P.: The Designated Pony… We’ve got the DP out back." – Em & Christine, riffing on 18th-century carriage-pooling (38:22)
• Em imitating Zach Baggins: "Aaron, you’re talking to demons, not women making us a pie." (72:15)
• "It felt like I was touched by Satan." – Aaron, Ghost Adventures (74:01)

Memorable Moments:

• Hosts’ bit on “designated pony/DP” as the Hellfire Club’s equivalent to a modern DD.
• Live watch-along: Christine and Em react in real time to the infamous Ghost Adventures Hellfire Club episode (75:41).
• Both hosts muse on how much of the Hellfire Club’s legend may be scare-mongering or later embellishment: “For all we know, they were just well-educated social elites into science and just liked to play cards.” (63:58)

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5. True Crime Story: The Disappearance of Mary Boyle (Begins ~85:00)

Story Summary

• Christine recounts Ireland’s longest-running missing child case: six-year-old Mary Boyle’s 1977 disappearance in rural Donegal.
• Family Context:
  • Mary and her identical twin Anne, their older brother, and parents were visiting grandparents for a family gathering.
  • After chores and play, Mary reportedly followed her uncle Jerry to a neighboring house, but turned around—uncle claims last seeing her headed home.
• Investigation:
  • Massive search is fruitless; no trace of Mary or her belongings (no remains, not even potato chips she carried).
  • Over time, the likelihood of abduction versus an accident becomes community consensus.
• Suspects & Controversy:
  • Speculation about uncle Jerry’s involvement; a detective believes a “near-confession” was stymied by political intervention.
  • Notable false lead: serial killer Robert Black dismissed as a suspect despite disturbing coincidences.
  • 2013 botched police dig at a reported burial site, furthering family heartbreak and suspicion.
• Family Fallout:
  • Rift between Mary’s mother and twin Anne regarding the coroner’s inquest and investigations.
  • Anne remains a fierce advocate, organizing campaigns for justice and searching for her sister’s remains.
  • The family continues to endure rumors, allegations, and the pain of decades with no closure.
• Takeaway:
  • The case stands as both a national wound and a cautionary tale about investigative failures, local secrets, and the enduring pain of familial loss and suspicion.

Notable Quotes:

• “She believes that Mary was the victim of sexual abuse and that she was murdered because the abuser believed she was going to report him.” – Christine, on Anne’s theory (123:51)
• "All we want is to find where my sister was left, to give her some dignity and lay her to rest with a decent burial." – Anne Boyle, on her quest for answers (124:19)
• “Happy Halloween—life is scary. And that’s why we drink.” – Christine (126:17)

Memorable Moments:

• Detailed recounting of Anne reenacting Mary’s last journey to assess how plausible the uncle’s account was (105:23).
• Emotional memories shared about the psychic impact on surviving twin Anne, her personal grief, and continued campaigns for answers.
• Hosts’ joint frustration over botched police work and investigative red herrings.

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6. Closing Banter: Parenting, Type A Life, and Tie-Dye Triumphs (129:21–END)

• Christine describes the chaos of tie-dyeing with her daughter, resulting in “ugly shirts” for mom and color theory lessons from her young daughter.
• The pair muse on how planning (and executing) crafts or household projects is always easier for “type A” personalities.
• Anecdotes on efficient pumpkin carving as adults and washing-face techniques lead to amusing generational and gender rants.

Notable Quotes:

• "Society sucks… I think that’s what it is." – Em, discussing double standards for women (132:38)
• "The mess is in the eye of the pumpkin holder." – Christine (131:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|--------------| | Banter & Birthday Stories | 04:00–16:00 | | Why We Drink / Icebreakers | 16:00–23:07 | | Paranormal Story: The Hellfire Club | 26:04–81:00 | | - Hellfire Club Background/Lore | 26:04–54:00 | | - Paranormal Reports & Ghost Adventures | 54:00–77:20 | | True Crime: Disappearance of Mary Boyle | ~85:00–124:40| | - Case Background | 85:00–103:00 | | - Investigation/Controversy | 103:00–124:40| | Episode Wrap & Tie-Dye Tales | 129:21–end |

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Tone & Language

• Warm, irreverent, and conversational with emotional depth and classic “And That’s Why We Drink” snark.
• Frequent friendly (sometimes self-deprecating) asides generate laughs and a sense of camaraderie.
• Empathy and frankness dominate the true crime segment, while Supernatural sections skew toward playful skepticism and dark comedy.

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Best Quotes of the Episode

1. Leona’s Corporate Wink:
   “She’d wink at Tim and then she’d open it and go, ‘Thank you, Tim.’ … What a corporate little lady.” (14:10–14:29) – Christine

2. Ghost Adventures Parody:
   “Aaron, you’re talking to demons, not women. Making us a pie.” (72:15) – Em, channeling Zach Baggins

3. Christine’s Crime Story Gut Punch:
   “All we want is to find where my sister was left, to give her some dignity…” (124:19) – Anne Boyle (as quoted)

4. Why We Drink:
   "Happy Halloween—life is scary. And that's why we drink." (126:17) – Christine

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Additional Resources

• Mary Boyle’s Case: facebook.com/justiceformaryboyle

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For New Listeners

This episode is a perfect showcase of the hosts’ balance of chilling stories, personal storytelling, and comedy. You’ll get both classic haunted history (Hellfire Club) and a heart-wrenching unsolved true crime (Mary Boyle), woven together with relatable, candid, and deeply entertaining rapport.

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And that’s why… you should listen!

Transcript

[A]

This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. We have been using Squarespace since we started the podcast before.

[B]

Like since we, before we launched it, which is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So we've been using it longer than the podcast has been around because we have been. We were building out our website and it was so easy. For two people who've never built a website, it was just kind of a plug and chug situation. They made it so user friendly.

[B]

It's so true. And we've stuck around with them because since then they've only gotten better and more, you know, integrations, more features. For example, let me give you like a little situation here. If you're going to fundraise, which we're not right now, but you know, if we want to go to the Mothman Festival and we need to fundraise for that, for example, you can fundraise directly on your website and grow your impact. With built in donation tools. You can create a professional on brand website that makes it easy to accept one time or recurring contributions from your lovely fans. No, I'm kidding. With built in email campaigns and marketing tools, that's also like a huge selling point. You can connect with your community, inspire more people to support your cause, which is a really cool angle.

[A]

Yeah. Any reason you need a website, Squarespace is there for you. Head to squarespace.com drink for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DRINK to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. Emmy Award winner Kerry Washington returns as Dr. Virginia Edwards in Audible's heart pounding supernatural thriller the Prophecy Season 2. Also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Dulay Hill, Ray Renzi, Feliz and Ebony Obsidian. The battle between good and evil reaches new heights in this action packed sequel that pits faith against fear and pushes the fate of humankind to the edge. Follow every twist and turn as Virginia and her miracle son Joshua flee from Detroit pursued by the sinister Luther Bell, played by Giancarlo Esposito and his Morning Stars cult. You know how I feel about a cult. Very intriguing. With her estranged husband Ryan and Moses, played by Dula Hill and a devotee with a mysterious past, Virginia finds unlikely allies in Samson and Delilah. Together they uncover the truth about Joshua's place in an ancient prophecy. And each perilous step of their journey is guided by Virginia's haunting visions. While Bell's forces close in, threatening to tear their world apart as natural disasters erupt, Virginia must embrace her role as both mother and chosen protector. But will it be too late? Evil is rising and time is running out. Do not miss Kerry Washington and Audible's new Must Listen the prophecy season two. Go to audible.com prophecy2, that's the number two. And start listening today.

[B]

As somebody who has suffered from OCD and learned a lot about OCD over the years, a lot of it with the help of no cd, I can highly suggest this to to people who are struggling with ocd. A lot of things have gotten better for me through the help of NOCD and other, you know, services that I've used in other providers and other therapies. But it is really such a cool, especially starting place if you're kind of new to the diagnosis or new to understanding or somebody in your life maybe has ocd. It's just I cannot say highly enough how much I think NOCD is important and really helpful.

[A]

Yeah, not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. But it does not have to be that way because OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called erp, or Exposure and Response Prevention. And with nocd, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in ocd. And OCD therapists are highly trained, so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about.

[B]

No CD therapy is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans, which is so important. And if you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Don't go to nocd.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. That's ND.com to schedule a free call and learn more. Okay. Really? I mean, really though. I think it looks good.

[A]

It does. It. I mean, the. It was a compliment that, like, you look like the cool kid in middle school.

[B]

I do appreciate that. That's the first time I've been called a cool anything. So that's. I. I went to get like a sweatshirt and then I thought, well, what if I get a hot flash in the middle of the podcast and I can't just be willy nilly. You know that when you take your sweatshirt off. There used to be this girl in high school, speaking of high school, where she took her sweatshirt off and it like took her shirt off with it by accident and then everyone saw her.

[A]

Yeah, boobs.

[B]

And it was like, haha. And we talked about it for years, like, who gives a. I feel like I was scared of that happening here on this.

[A]

I see you needed a. You needed a layer but not a pullover because you don't want to accidentally flash.

[B]

I understand. It's an easy access pullover. Sorry again. I'm saying all these really inappropriate things when I wear this.

[A]

I finally feel like we're on the same page.

[B]

Finally. We have. We can share the same.

[A]

Same jargon, you know, I. I assume we're already recording the episode.

[B]

We are, Yeah, I guess. Because I decided so I was gonna say it's unceremon.

[A]

I. I won't say who in case they're listening, but I was hanging out with someone yesterday and I thought we were on the same playing field. And I thought we were like.

[B]

And then you said, come in my pocket. And they went, well, they opened up.

[A]

The conversation for like, kind of like, not totally X rated, but certainly like an adult conversation. I thought I was like.

[B]

I was like, oh, opening. Oh, God, shut up, Christine.

[A]

No, I wish you were there because I would. Then they would have been outnumbered and I would have not felt like such a freak.

[B]

Apparently I was there, just like spiritually fly on the wall.

[A]

Well, I was. I guess they were. I don't know. I don't know how much I can say without, like, giving away the situation, but basically I thought we were both, like, kind of talking about personal experiences. We weren't. And then I just kind of started throwing them out.

[B]

And I was like, oh, no, you're like, you know that thing that happens? And they're like.

[A]

Or like, I thought they were gonna match my energy. I don't know. I don't know really what happened. The whole thing felt like a big headache by the end. I was like, now I'm just so.

[B]

But I love when that. I mean, I hate when that happens. I love what happens to other people, but I. I hate when that happens to me. But it also feels like a good story someday, you know?

[A]

Well, they were telling me about, like, oh, I went on a date with this girl and she was texting me all this stuff. And like, I didn't. Like, I didn't know how to respond. So I was like, oh, let me.

[B]

Here's what you do.

[A]

But I was like, oh, I can relate. Let me give you a story. But sure. And then they were. It just. It turned into them. Like I thought I was hyping them up. So I was like, oh, cool, Like a cute girl saying these things to you. And they were saying like, oh, it made me uncomfortable. And I'm like, oh. And I was like, I was, like, gassing them up, like, this is awesome. And they're like, I'm not into that. And I went, oh, oh, oh, never mind. Me neither.

[B]

So in their mind, you're like, you love being harassed. Hooray.

[A]

Yeah, it was like I. The energy was.

[B]

I mean, I guess if someone said, I went on a date and they sent me these nights, these. I mean, it depends on, I guess, the content of the messages.

[A]

But, I mean, I felt. I felt like I was reading the room the right way. It sounded like, oh, she was really cute. We, like, going on all these dates. And then she started sending me this stuff, and I was like, oh, cool. Okay.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems like a natural progression. And then it's like, yeah.

[A]

And then he was like. So anyway, I broke up with her because it made me uncomfortable, and I was like, oh, oops, whoops. Well, forget everything I just said for the last 10 minutes.

[B]

Well, hopefully that person who sent the messages is listening. And now they're like, oh, I see. I see what happened. And now maybe they'll reach out to you, and it'll be just like the circle of. Well, actually. No, don't.

[A]

Allison would love that.

[B]

Yeah, I was gonna say. Wait, don't say anything. I reach out. Kindly not reach out sexily. I understand, and I want to be super clear on that. Okay, everyone.

[A]

I. Honestly, if I got sensibly like that, I think it would just be. You know, I'm so lucky for Allison sometimes, because if I ever got caught in a silly little situation like that, I. I've been with people who are, one, jealous, two, you know, get. You know, get weird about that stuff before. I don't know. I'm just. I'm just very grateful for Allison because.

[B]

I was even saying yesterday about them. Who is it? What are their names?

[A]

Oh, it's never actually happened yet, but.

[B]

What's never happened yet?

[A]

Wait, what are we talking about?

[B]

Oh, sorry. I wanted you to talk more about your exes who were super jealous.

[A]

Oh, I can talk about that forever.

[B]

Give me all their names and information. We are all listening.

[A]

I am a little scared of them still, so I'm not going to say their names. But, you know, the names. I've told you the names.

[B]

Oh, I know the names. Yeah.

[A]

Uh, but any. No, I was. I was actually in the same conversation yesterday. It was with a straight person, and I was trying to explain the difference between straight and queer relationships. And then it led into, like. You know, when you're comfortable with someone and you trust each other. Like, you weirdly. This is like, the weird way. Wrong way to put it, but, like, get away with a lot because you are able to understand each other. And, like, it's not. So I was saying, like, I feel like with Allison, I can talk about my exes and I could, like, and it's not a thing. It's like, right, right, right, right. I can go hang out friends that are girls, and it's not like a threat, you know? So it just turned into like a little Alison praise party. So, Allison, if you're listening, I said nice things about you. Your turn.

[B]

You're welcome.

[A]

Your turn. Anyway, how are you in Blaze? And how's that sweet little birthday girl?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for asking. She is delighted. She's so kind and special, and I love her. And she turned four.

[A]

I can't believe you have a whole four year old.

[B]

A child. And she picked a song for class to sing, and they sang. They were going to do Shake it off by Taylor Swift, but then her other friend had a birthday and he picked Let It Go from Frozen. So she's like, well, now I want to do Let It Go.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

The problem is, it wasn't a problem, but she did take over the entire. Her teacher sent a video and said, look how sweet. Leona was so excited on, like, her friend's birthday. And then it's literally this kid going, liana, you're being too loud. It's my birthday song. And she's saying, like, every word and, like, belted it out.

[A]

And you know what? I see both sides clear.

[B]

I know. That's where I was like, oh, God. So I was like, I'm not. My brother was like, christine, don't do. Don't like.

[A]

Yeah, leave it alone.

[B]

And I was like, you're right, you're right, you're right.

[A]

He won't remember. The friend won't remember.

[B]

Yeah. And by the way, the next day, he made her a drawing of a bunch of. Actually, it was just a swirl. And Leona said, I drew him a bunch of pizzas, but he drew me a swirl. I guess that's okay. So I think they're fine.

[A]

I think that was, like their amicable handshake on the matter. So, yeah, she's just having the best time.

[B]

And, like, what.

[A]

What did you do for her birthday? Was there a party? Was there a cake? Was it. What presents did you get her? Was there a theme?

[B]

So her theme is Gabby's Dollhouse. We took her to. We took her and her best friend Haley to the Gabby's Dollhouse movie.

[A]

Cute.

[B]

We took her out of school early to take her.

[A]

Was that her first time getting to leave school early?

[B]

Yeah, and she was so cool, like, I don't want to leave school. And I was like, oh, someday.

[A]

Why am I getting all the messages mixed up? No, you're right.

[B]

I mean, you're right in my opinion. I just think at age 3, they're just singing Frozen all day, so apparently it's a fun.

[A]

I wouldn't want to leave either. I know.

[B]

Sorry. I'm also PMSing, and I have a ton of candy here. I will stop eating it, everyone. Okay, Sorry.

[A]

Get your last handful in. You got a cup.

[B]

Get my last handful in. Oh, okay.

[A]

So what was the cake? What was the presents?

[B]

So this weekend we're doing a party for her classmates and her friends, and so that'll be more of, like, the big to do, but she's getting, like, a Gabby's Dollhouse cake. It's gonna be super cute. Got little, like, crafts for all the kids. And then yesterday, my mom and Tim came over and we opened presents and it was super sweet. She just was like, first of all, well, we went to the movies and we were the only people there. And so I was like, oh, my God, somebody take a picture. Because we also took Haley and her mom, like, someone take a picture. So that one day we could say, like, we rented out the entire theater for you, but it was just an empty ass theater. But they ran around the theater and sang all the songs, and it was really fun.

[A]

It actually worked out so well if they're allowed to run around and everything, too. Was that your foot?

[B]

Jack cut out. My foot Jack cut out.

[A]

Did you just do a burlesque move over my head? Did I just go, whoa?

[B]

The thing is, it wasn't even over your head. It was directly through your face. Just.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Hang on.

[B]

Yeah, it was mostly like, Giovanni. Sorry. He's driving me nuts, so I'm trying to shoe him, but instead I just gave you a nice show. And I'm sorry, Jack, for you especially, because you have to cut that out.

[A]

Please don't.

[B]

You can cut out the conversation, but nobody needs to pause and freeze frame on the bottom of my foot. I've been.

[A]

You're gonna be rated again on that stupid foot celebrity.

[B]

Well, no, I'm not ready for it. That's. I need a pedicure first before we take, like, the official photo, you know.

[A]

What'S it, Wiki Foot? Is that what it's called?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Wiki feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not on wiki feet. But you have like a great rating, I think.

[B]

Well, it's because I wear a lot of like sandals and so then people like zoom in, you know what I mean? So that's the only reason. And by the way, I have a terrible rating on there because the pictures they picked are just not good ones. And I'm like, just hold on, let me get a pedicure first. But then now I'm like, oh, I can't just post a picture of my feet. Right? Because then it's like, well, now I'm skewing it on purpose.

[A]

Which like I'm sure someone has taken a picture of their own foot and put it on wiki foot to up their ratings.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure there'd be like user number and it'll be like. Or I'm always crazy. 4:4:4 has uploaded content to like. I mean that would be so unhing. But someday I'll swing my foot delicately through the screen and someone can take a picture and that means I've taken it. I've got pedicure.

[A]

What do you do is slowly like this while I'll know you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Then it's like, oh, look at, there goes M with her fucking perfectly manicured fingernails. Speaking of, maybe you'll be on wiki hands.

[A]

Wiki things.

[B]

Wiki things. Oh, that's horrible. I, I bet you'd get an A though.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And that is a backhanded complaint compliment. A back fingered compliment. Okay, what the point? What's the point?

[A]

What's the. Your daughter's cake flavor?

[B]

Oh, chocolate.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh, and then she was really sweet because we were opening gifts and she kept saying, she'd say, who is this from? And we'd all be like, like before she opened it and she'd wink at them because that's her new thing. She winks at everyone. So she'd like wink at Tim and then she'd open it and she'd go, thank you, Tim. And it was like, who are you? It was just so cute because what.

[A]

A corporate little lady.

[B]

She was like, thank you, Tim. And then she opened it and then when she actually did get, she said that to everybody. But then when she opened Tim's gift, she just looked at it and said, I think this may be the best one yet. And we were like, okay. And it was her favorite.

[A]

Someone learned being diplomatic.

[B]

No, it was her favorite. It was her favorite game. She got a stomp rocket. Oh, those are some reason she just looked at it, went, I think this one wins the day. And we were like, for a second.

[A]

I thought you meant she was saying that to every single person.

[B]

No. Oh, my God, no. Thankfully, she's not a people pleaser. Very. She's actually very ardently not a people pleaser, which is why when she says something nice, it, like, really means something. You know, like we don't make her say please and thank you and stuff. Really. She just kind of knows when it's appropriate. But yeah, she would be like. And then she was genuinely just really a sweetheart about it and was like, I can't believe I got presents. And people saying to me, like, she just feels very special. So it's been a. It's been a good time. And we got her her own little bike to learn how to ride a bike. So cute. She's very excited about that. But, yeah, so it was a good day. But we're doing a party this weekend. Talk to me in five days when I've had like 12 children in my house. And I may not say the same story, but so far it's been good.

[A]

Good. Is that why you drink this weekend or this week or what's it isn't?

[B]

Also, Blaze has started buying me a constant rotation of mini D peppies. So that's what I drink today. What do you drink and why I drink?

[A]

I, you know, I had it sent out every time I do. It's my own special little thing.

[B]

So did I. But Blaze is just the, like, send out guy, you know, the, The.

[A]

The shopkeep. Yeah, that's right. I had. I have my usual little iced tea.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And. Oh, there. I feel like there's no reason to drink and. So many reasons.

[B]

I know, right? Oh, my God. It's like I have so many things I feel like I want to talk about, but then I'm like, oh, I should talk about that. But I should mention this. I don't know.

[A]

What'S. Let's just. Here, give me. Throw a topic at me and I'll find.

[B]

I'm trying to think of a good little icebreaker. Well, how's my godson? He.

[A]

He's good.

[B]

He.

[A]

You missed this episode because this was when we had a little Peroean special and Morgan from Creeps and Crimes was on. But one of the reasons that I drank recently was because it was his first time being boarded and I did not do the, like, the smart. What you should do. Warm them up by letting them stay for one night only. I like, just. Oh, he had never Left the house since he's been here, and then he spent 10 days there. And I was terrified the whole time. He thought he was rehomed.

[B]

Oh, geez.

[A]

Yeah, So I felt very guilty about that. And so not that guilty because I boarded him again. So he's.

[B]

Is he there now?

[A]

No. The reason I drink is because I'm about to go pick him up after this because he. He spent the night there and hopeful.

[B]

You did the opposite way. You're like, do like two weeks there and then you do one night.

[A]

Yeah, we do it the hard way, and then you figure it out. But he. I'm picking him up afterwards and I'm supposed to say, to see my little mini. Oh, it's gonna be nice.

[B]

It's gonna be happy reunion.

[A]

And yeah. So I'm gonna see him. And then next week, I'm going to Florida for my grandma's 90th, which is wild and it's turning into like a.

[B]

Whole thing, which of course it is.

[A]

Of course it is, because.

[B]

Wait to hear all the details.

[A]

It's three generations of me and it's.

[B]

God, what a nightmare. Guys, let's think about this. Linda and grandma. Man, it's going to be fun.

[A]

So. And I've seen my mom way too damn much recently. I saw you, dude. I've literally been seeing her on a weekly basis, just as she intended. I know it's like she's plotting because I. I just went to Philly and Delaware. I knocked Delaware off my 50 states. And my mom invited herself. I think I. I think I said something like, oh, you could come. And then she really rolled. Like, I didn't know it was gonna. And then it became a thing where, like, now we're planning. And so I saw her, and then that was last week. And then yesterday I took my very first back to back red eyes to Pittsburgh for the day. So I saw her there, and then I see her next week for Florida, and it's just a lot of Linda, so maybe that's why I drink. But the October Florida extravaganza is becoming a whole thing. Because since I haven't seen Allison, she's coming to Florida to see my. For my grandma's birthday.

[B]

Oh, so you're gonna see each other in Florida?

[A]

I'll finally see the woman that claims to love me. Yes. And. And because we're gonna be in Orlando and I haven't seen her all of spooky season, which, you know, is like a crime for us, and October is her birthday month, we've decided that we're gonna see grandma and then we're gonna extend it and do Halloween stuff in Florida. It's just become a whole thing.

[B]

Oh, my God. So, okay. Wow. So I wonder if Linda had some hand in sending Allison away so that you would start.

[A]

Like, I'd be freedom for her, right?

[B]

Like, you'd spend more time on the east coast and Linda could just conveniently show up, you know.

[A]

I know, I know. I, you know, I don't put in cahoots. And you could say this to be.

[B]

In my, my, my dateline voice, but.

[A]

They were gonna say that should have stayed in my head.

[B]

But it didn't. Also should have stayed in my head. But we can put some, we can fix it in post.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

You could say probably any ridiculous conspiracy theory about my mom. And there is a line of truth.

[B]

Yeah, there is a, there's a grain of truth in every conspiracy theory about Linda.

[A]

So anyway, she's why I drink this week. You are welcome, Mom.

[B]

Wow. That'll be fun, though. Florida will be fun.

[A]

Yes, it, it will. It will be fun. I'm just stressed because I haven't planned for it yet, so I just don't know what it looks like. I mean, I'll figure it out. I always figure it out. I literally just got off the phone with some money folks and then I had to take a Tylenol, so.

[B]

Oh, yes, it's really, it's difficult. And that's why we're so thankful for our sponsor Chime, because they, man, we're a little envious of the people who, who have this now because back in the day, especially when we had no clue we could have used their help 100%.

[A]

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[B]

At chime.com/drink the two days early direct deposit. It's like the, the free overdraft coverage, I mean, come on, that would have helped me a lot. Plus, they have fee free access to 47,000 ATMs. I, I cannot count the number of times I've had to wander around a city looking for an atm. So that's, that's great too.

[A]

I did it last week.

[B]

Oh, hey, you better use Chime and Mine.

[A]

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[B]

Open an [e-mail] drink. That's chime.com/drink. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members fdic Spot me. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. news and World Report 2023 Chime checking account required. So I have a personal shopper. Not really. But it's Hungry Root and it feels like a personal shopper because Leona's favorite snacks will arrive in a on my front porch and I'm like, oh, how did this happen? Oh, Hungry Root knows that Leona likes this and does not like this other thing that they did not send. It's just like a really cool program and especially with like a house of different people of different tastes and and lifestyles, it's a really cool service.

[A]

Yeah. Hungry Root takes the stress out of grocery shopping by filling your cart with personalized selections that get smarter with every order. From smoothies and kids snacks to sweets, salad kits, supplements and more, there's something for every taste and nutrition goals. So if your kid wants dinosaur shaped nuggets while you have your salad, that is possible.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

So that's why I drink. And is this our first. I don't remember the calendar, but I think this might be our first episode together in October. Maybe last week.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't know, but I know I have no idea. Morgan got the first week of October.

[B]

Oh, that's me.

[A]

So this might be our first one together. In which case happy spooky season.

[B]

Hey, I can't believe it. Heroine is so fun.

[A]

And shout out to Eva for even coming up that whole thing. I can't imagine the headaches that have come out of having to align six different shows with each other.

[B]

So I don't know how she Just like whipped it up. But she really, I feel like is thriving as producer across multiple shows, you know.

[A]

Yeah, I think she's. I hope she's loving it. Otherwise, big ask. Thank you so much. And yeah, I. Because this is maybe our first episode together in October, I'm taking it upon myself to treat it as that at least. I was like, well, I should kick off the Halloween stuff now. Right, Right.

[B]

You better.

[A]

So my story today, I was like, I'm. I'm really. If you guys could write in the comments suggestions for future Halloween episodes, that would be sick because I'm starting to panic where I'm like, there's only so many ways I can talk about Dracula. You know what I'm saying? Or like. Right.

[B]

Like the same like. Yeah, like where the Jack O Lantern comes from and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I keep wanting to do like Halloween focused, but I like at some point we'll run out. And I even typed in on Google. I was like looking for inspiration. I typed in like haunted Candy Factory and apparently that's an episode of Scooby Doo. So I was like, well, lol.

[B]

We could do a watch of that. But I also feel like it's hard when. Sorry. I also feel like it's hard when we do. We do Halloween themed things every single week. I know there's a limited amount of.

[A]

Like extra dupa Halloween. Yeah. I'm like witches. And I'm like, well, I don't want to. I mean, I guess I could cover like, like, you know, salad or something, but I was like, that feels really deep. And I'm so nervous to do something.

[B]

Like that because I don't wanted like so many witch episodes with like a real team of researchers at par. Like of like five, six researchers who did like rounds of.

[A]

For rituals.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for rituals. Yeah. So it's like daunting to do.

[A]

It is. It's. And I don't want to upset any of the witches, certainly. I certainly don't want to piss off witches, you know, I do.

[B]

Let's just see what. Let's. Let's find out, you know.

[A]

Well, so anyway, I was like, why don't I, instead of covering like a full ass pagan festival, why don't I just like look up the origins, not just hang on with me because I know I've done this before. The origins of Halloween, that was kind of my inspiration. Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, why don't I just pick a haunted location from the. The very beginnings of Halloween, which is. I don't know if you know, this. I mean, I've said pagan and I think Celtic already, but Ireland is technically the birthplace of Halloween. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna find somewhere in Ireland, and that's. That's gonna be my. My first.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

My first contribution to Spooky Season. So I was like, what's the most haunted place in Ireland? And I don't know if it's the most haunted, but certainly the most notorious is the Hellfire Club. So that's what I'm gonna talk about today.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

You know, I was expecting. I don't know, I don't think I did bad research, but I was expecting this to be, like, triple the amount of research, as usual, because I also. Anytime something is older than, like, a hundred years, I expect there to be, like, so much more history on it.

[B]

They have pamphlets and stuff from back then, you know, and a lot of.

[A]

It, I was expecting, like, a. A lot more scandal, but every. Everything I looked up, it kind of was just focusing on a few stories. So we're just gonna get, I guess, a few stories, and then I have a little special thing for you at the end. So. Okay, so Hellfire Club, fun fact, is actually called Moncler Hill. Oh, that's like the location where Hellfire Club is, but it's just become known as the Hellfire Club. But fun fact, Montpelier Hill. Excuse me. So before I tell you about the actual location of this Hellfire Club, which is in Dublin, I wanted to tell you that in 1719, the very, very first Hellfire Club. Because it's not. There's not just one. It's one of many Hellfire Clubs.

[B]

It's a franchise.

[A]

It is. It's like a. It's like. Like a fraternity, essentially.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The very first Hellfire Club was founded in England in 1719, and it was founded by this guy named Philip. He was the Duke of Wharton, but I prefer calling him this dude called Philip of Wharton.

[B]

I feel like a wart. You could. You could make some jokes there, but you could. The energy.

[A]

Witchy.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[A]

It's somewhere, but. So the Duke of Wharton was the founder of the very first Hellfire Club in England. And immediately I have to clarify for people, because when I was reading up on these things, I kept getting confused. So I broke it up for everybody else. So you can be that. Well, actually, guy. Later, a lot of people were saying, oh, Duke. The Duke of Warden isn't the founder. It's actually this one guy named Dashwood, which Great name.

[B]

Whoa. That was actually his actual name because we kept making fun of Wharton and stuff and he's like, no, that's not me anymore.

[A]

No, Dashwood is his last name, but I'm keep. I'm just sticking with that so it's easier to swallow. But this. A lot of people have said the founder is actually this guy named Dashwood. He is not the founder, but he founded a similar club to the Hellfire Club. And on top of that, he later opened his own charter of the Hellfire Club. So a lot of people. And he. It actually is like one of the more famous Hellfire clubs out there because they were like, up to some real tomfoolery over there. So because his name is involved in Hellfire Club history and he founded his own club with similar beliefs, they think that he's the founder. He is not.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Forget the name Dashwood. Fake news. The actual guy is this guy, Phil, Duke of Wharton. Oh, another thing that I wanted to say that feels confusing in my head, but maybe I'm just sleep deprived from my back to back red eyes. The. The Hellfire Club that everybody knows, the one I'm talking about today as a topic is haunted and it is in Dublin. It is not in England. Even though the. The founder is from England and founded a club in England.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

And. And I. I only say that because it's a weird coincidence, but even though the Duke of Wharton is from England and he founded the Hellfire Club in England, he also actually at one point owned this property before he ever before. The Hellfire Club.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So. Oh.

[B]

And then they later built a Hellfire Club on the property. Oh, wow.

[A]

I'm sure the guy who ends up buying it, he was like, oh, well, you know, the founder of the Hellfire Club actually used to live here. Maybe I should open Hellfire Club and make this a chapter. Something like that.

[B]

It would be the opposite where he would be like, I want to open a Hellfire Club. Oh, there's a property that he used to own in the area.

[A]

Interesting, right?

[B]

Like, I don't know. I feel like it's a hard reach to be like, I'll buy this random property and then what should I put?

[A]

You're right.

[B]

I mean, that feels more like how.

[A]

My brain would go. That's how.

[B]

Yeah, that's how like our sick brains would do it. We'd get the property first.

[A]

But yeah, for example, like people who used to film in vaudeville movies, like vaudeville actors used to rent out here. And one of my first thoughts was, well, Now I'm gonna make this like a vaudeville themed house. Like, that was like my first like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're totally right. Your way is.

[B]

I mean, I don't know that I'm right, but it's. It's just a guess that normal people, usually business people, have a different brain than I do.

[A]

And you do. You are very onto something. Well, I only say that because since the founders from England and their. The original club is in England, but he lived here where there was a club, people think that this is the founding one and that's why it's so famous.

[B]

Confusion. Right.

[A]

So anyway, I don't mean to like beat a dead horse, but I just wanted to make sure everyone gets it that this is not the OG but the OG Founder did live here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So now knowing that he happened to live here, he was known to have all of his aristocrat friends. And basically when they opened the original Hellfire club in England, it was called the Hellfire Club, I think as a dig to the Christians, which immediately, of course, now we can see how this becomes this demonic place. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he was known for his lewd behavior.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

The word debauchery was on every website. Just vague lewd behavior. And him and all of his social elite friends who were also into lewd behavior, they created this group because this was during a wave of Christianity in England. And they kind of put this club together to openly mock the church.

[B]

Oh, good, that's gonna go well.

[A]

The first one. The first club, I think was actually. I don't know what the right word is, but, like, forced to shut down by the kids.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Anyway, so they started this club. They. It said, at least. I don't know how true any of this is, because everything had the word allegedly in front of it. But we're gonna. We're gonna roll with it. That this club was originally open because they wanted to discuss science and philosophy. And it was like kind of during the Enlightenment era, or that's what they wanted to hold on to. And they questioned society's rules. It was not a fun place for those who wanted to be super duper religious. So while the Duke of Wharton owned this Dublin site that was not at the time a Hellfire club, he ended up selling the property in 1725 to a very wealthy speaker of the Irish House of Commons.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

And his name was William Connolly. He bought this area especially like Montpelier Hill. It's in the Dublin mountains. It's kind of isolated, which makes it kind of spooky and no witnesses. So he built this area up because he wanted a hunting lodge. As all wealthy politicians.

[B]

Where are you going to put it?

[A]

Where are you going to put it? In the woods, obviously. So immediately kind of up. And by kind, I mean totally. He began building on. I'm just going to call it sacred land.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

It's where there were already memorial sites made of stones. There was a 5,000-year-old Neolithic passage grave which are literal tombs.

[B]

How many years old?

[A]

5,000.

[B]

What is wrong with people there? He's like, well, but I don't. Okay.

[A]

And I was like, this is the spot for me. Not only did he destroy most of this area for his own construction, but then he even. Which I'm sure felt condescending to the ghosts. Use those stones from the memorials for parts of his fireplace.

[B]

Yuck.

[A]

Yeah. Fun fact. The this part is for sure true, that these things exist, that these passage graves existed. They have even been uncovered bit by bit over time. As recently as 2016, they're finding fireplace probably. I mean, carbon date a rock, you know.

[B]

Yeah, right. I mean, it's made of carbon, right? Isn't that the point?

[A]

Yeah, that's a great point. Maybe they didn't have to dig up at all. They just kind of grabbed brick from his fireplace. Anyway, they have dug up and found pieces of. Of the old graves. But soon after the construction, the roof of his new lodge blew off in a storm. So it wasn't built. Well, first of all.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Really.

[A]

Locals immediately took it as these are the pissed off spirits getting back at you for desecrating their land.

[B]

I could understand that. If somebody at the pub likes, gave me a few talking points, I'd be like, I believe it.

[A]

Yeah, sure. I would too. So basically, with the connection of this hedonistic, anti Christian Duke of Wharton living here plus desecrated land, plus angry spirits, immediately this place has like a cursed kind of feel to it. And after William Connolly died, the lodge was then sold or leased, I'm not sure, to the members of people who wanted to open a Hellfire Club in Ireland. So in 1735, the Irish Hellfire Club was founded by James Worsdale and Richard Parsons. Richard Parsons was known for dabbling in black magic. Again, we have no evidence of this, but he was apparently already known for that.

[B]

I love that even like they like claim the black magic thing, but then it's always like they're dabbling or like they're entrenched in it and that's like, how do they Determine, like, the word, the level of how dramatic we're gonna sound about it. But, like, a quick dabble doesn't sound as dramatic, you know, in.

[A]

In which case, like, I wonder what the fine line between Babel and entrenched is, because some people might think that we're entrenched.

[B]

Exactly that stuff. And, like, maybe scared of the witches. Right? Like, I don't know, maybe they.

[A]

One of them just was like, I've heard of a Ouija board. And they went, oh, you're entrenched in this black magic.

[B]

He's not a dabbler anymore, so.

[A]

Yes. So Richard Parsons and James Worstell, they're the two people who ended up getting this place after William Connolly died. Again, he did not have a Hellfire Club either. He just wanted this for his hunting lodge. And he was desecrating land.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Then these two guys end up moving in. They want to move their Hellfire Club chapter into this building.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Imagine if they've. I. This is where, again, we go back to your point of like, one of them must have heard that the founder of the Hellfire Club lived here. Or they got there and they went, no way.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Or that.

[B]

Or that. And like, oh, there. This is a sign from the universe. That's how we would be.

[A]

I. I mean, if you're already talking about, like a cult, it's like, oh, it's the cosmic. So there were other members who I'm going to discuss later that joined, and they definitely, if the reputation was already kind of yucky, they really soured it. So I'm just. I'm just going to say their names.

[B]

I didn't mean to sound so excited about that, but I'm curious.

[A]

Sure. So there's one guy named Lord Santry and another named Simon Luttrell. I'll say their names again later. But they become some of the early members of this club once it's opened in this area. I'll bring it up again later. But they. They are no gooders, I'll tell you that. So it's debated how often the lodge was. And I'm calling it a lodge from what it previously was. But it's debated how often this building was actually used for Hellfire Club meetings. Some believe that most of the meetings were actually done closer into town so people could. To get to them faster. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

I mean, I guess you're right. You don't want like a huge. Then you have to carpool. Yeah.

[A]

By horse. It's like worse. My horse can Only carry two.

[B]

Is that horse pulling? I don't know.

[A]

There was pulling.

[B]

No, pooling. Pulling. Pulling.

[A]

A cart. A cart pool? Is that what it was? A wagon pool? Wagon pool.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Can you imagine when the. You know how, like if my dog hears T R E a T goes nuts, right? Imagine the. The sigh that comes out of a horse after he hears the word cart pool. Enough. And he's like me. He's like, such a bad day.

[B]

This drive is going to be. This drive to the Hellfire Club and back is going to be so boring.

[A]

And they're all going to be drunk by the end. It's just. Imagine just the horse is the D.D. it's miserable. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's the D8. The D.H. dear horse driving us home.

[A]

The. The D.P. the designated pony.

[B]

The designated pony. Oh, D.P. yeah. Okay, well, we got drunk at the party. Don't worry about it.

[A]

We've got the DP out back. Don't worry.

[B]

Whoa. What?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Christine. I'm so sleepy. Okay, so they don't know. They don't know where the meetings happen sometimes either. There's on the hill.

[B]

Not out back. Don't look out back. Something's happening back there. You don't want. You don't want to know.

[A]

There was a. There was a pub in town called Eagle Tavern. And I guess this tavern. I would love to do it. They can't anymore, I'm sure. But if time travel ever exists, I hope one of the first documentaries they cover is. Is on Eagle Tavern because it sounds like this was the publisher that welcomed all meetings for secret societies. Like they had to know the craziest shit going on over there.

[B]

Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

[A]

Eagle Tavern. I'm just gonna say the Freemasons, because the other ones I've never heard of. I don't know if you've ever heard.

[B]

Of them either, but that's how secret they are.

[A]

But there were many clubs that are secret societies and they all for some reason would meet at Eagle Tavern. So that then brings in the how true is even. Like, is it because this place was spooky and secretive and hosted secret meetings that people think maybe some of the meetings were hosted here? I mean, it would make sense that they would, you know, reserve time there if it's easier for people to get to. But also you bought a whole ass house in the middle of the woods where you can do all the secret you want. I don't know. I don't know. Which is true.

[B]

And how are they, like. And this is maybe two in the weeds. But, like, how are they even organizing this so that there's not a double crossover of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A double booking. Because imagine you walking on the wrong secret society. Like, now what now? Now must they kill you? Like, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, are there, like, is there, like, it can't be that secret.

[B]

If they're just, like, coming and going from the same place.

[A]

That's a good point. Imagine if they're all actually just the same secret society, but just different people coming at different times, and you would never know.

[B]

Oh, that could be, too.

[A]

They're just all different levels. It's like, oh, I saw a ritual. I don't know if it's mine or the others or what.

[B]

The DP outback.

[A]

Only the horse knows.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So where are we? Okay, so the Eagle Tavern may or may not have been where most of the meetings were held if they were not actually meeting on Montpelier Hill.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But the perk of hosting activities in Montpelier. Montpelier Hill, like I said, is that because it was isolated, they could get away with a lot more. There was no witnesses. There's very few accounts, especially after hundreds of years. So we really don't know what happened. It could have been them playing fucking checkers and that's it.

[B]

Right, right, right. And just drinking and being idiots and.

[A]

Just talking about how atheism rocks or something.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

But, like, other hellfire clubs, they were like, the hellfire clubs that came before them. The one that was founded in England, this one in Dublin, was very outspoken against Christianity. They were full of high society members who spent their days indulging them. So they were drinking, gambling, especially playing cards on Sunday. They would hold black masses. They would. There was a lot of hinting at sexual debauchery with, like, sex workers, etc. They were also known to eat ghost pie, which is apparently pigeon pie.

[B]

Oh, I know they call it that because it's interesting.

[A]

All of a sudden you didn't give a. About pigeon pie.

[B]

Yeah, but now I don't either. Again. You know, I did, like, put something else in it.

[A]

Remember, I had. I was so hyper fixated on that one, like, English Heritage YouTube website where that woman would do cooking recipes from, like, the 1800s. She did an excellent pigeon pie.

[B]

She did.

[A]

I remember.

[B]

It's excellent. Did you try it?

[A]

It's excellent because the actor was brave as to pick up a pigeon and make a pie out of it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's pretty impressive.

[A]

I'll tell you what was an accident.

[B]

Ate pigeon in Egypt.

[A]

Oh, it's like today, like, these days.

[B]

I mean, somebody on my trip did.

[A]

Oh, how was that as a viewer?

[B]

They said it was delicious. I didn't eat. I didn't watch it. Don't worry. I wasn't there. Okay.

[A]

I couldn't do that. I don't think I. I know I couldn't.

[B]

It's like a. I mean, I think it's just pretty much like a normal bird, but I also don't eat normal birds, so I feel like I'm already out of the count.

[A]

I. As someone who regularly eats cow and chicken, the second I am reminded at all that it's an animal, I'm violently disgusted with myself for like three minutes. And then I keep going, but, oh, okay.

[B]

I've never witnessed you be violently disgusted with yourself while eating.

[A]

But it's usually those moments of those three minutes at a time where I'm really quiet in between my chicken wings.

[B]

Just like, say a little prayer for the little chicky.

[A]

Well, so I do know from that video that I saw that pigeon pie is actually very easy to make. Fun fact.

[B]

But it was.

[A]

It looked gross because they decorated it with the pigeon feet.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

I hope that that was just a creative choice that an actor in today's world did, because I couldn't imagine that being served to me on a table.

[B]

And I'm like, sure people have done it, because otherwise, like, how do you know it's pigeon? You know, that proves that that's what's in there, not just like something random.

[A]

Making a lot of good points today.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Here's another one which I could see even 20 years ago, unfortunately, this being funny, but it's not today. Apparently, since they were so, like, anti Christian, they would like to play pranks on Christians and clergymen. And one time, like, they. Their idea of pranking clergymen was inviting them over and then flashing them. That's assault. But I do see how, like, two generations ago, that would have been the funniest thing.

[B]

I mean, like, but if you're inviting people to a hellfire club, what are the. What do the clergy expect? Like a prayer circle, you know, I mean, that's fair.

[A]

And also, like, they. I mean, all it did was just perpetuate that they are like, hedonists, right? Like, oh, they do everything in the nude and they weren't afraid to show.

[B]

Us their weenies or whatever.

[A]

Yeah, well, anyway, they did not like that. Let's just. They were just digging. Digging their own line through the sand.

[B]

Yeah, it seems like they wanted to prove a point.

[A]

They would also. They nickname themselves the Holy Fathers. I'm sure as a dig to the Christians.

[B]

Very funny.

[A]

They also tried out other nicknames, including the Blasters or the Young Bucks of Dublin. Which do you prefer of the three?

[B]

The Blasters. Because it's, like, insane. Like, why would you call yourself that? It's like the Young Bucks. Okay, fine. But like a Blaster. You know, one person just came up with that and was like, but what about the Blasters? Everyone was like, not with the Blasters again.

[A]

You know what's so funny, though, is if that's true, they had the last laugh. Because in 2025, we're still talking about the Blasters and no other suggestions.

[B]

I mean, it's excellent. Like, they knew some. I don't know if they knew what they were doing, but they knew they were doing something.

[A]

They were like, I'm just ahead of my time. They'll get it.

[B]

I know something is here. I know it, and it is.

[A]

So another dig is that the. At the Christians or at the church in general is that the president of the Hellfire Club would be called the King of Hell, and he would dress like Satan during their meetings. Oh, my God. He would, like, in a cape and everything.

[B]

You're gonna give these people a freaking heart attack at the church. Seriously.

[A]

And, you know, it's. I mean, they're doing, like, full, open mockery. It's one thing, I guess, in. In my world, like, I don't even know if I would join them. Like, I understand, like, the. Oh, let's be critical thinkers here. But all of a sudden, it's like, oh, we're like, I. I don't know if I want to go somewhere.

[B]

Think you'd be invited to be part of the Young Bucks eccentric drunk debauchery group.

[A]

But fair enough.

[B]

If I did get an invite, I would probably attend. But I imagine I wasn't really welcome. You know, if.

[A]

If religion wasn't involved in this. This does just feel like your average scene on TV fraternity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, we dress up, we're naked. We dress up.

[B]

They're called the Young Bucks, and they're just doing a lot of like. Like flashing their wieners for no reason. Yeah, like, it really does feel like. Like they were just some young, drunk, rich kids. Yeah.

[A]

100. And that's so far how I totally see this. At least that's where. Where I. That's what I think the founder was expecting.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

It's also said that their mascot was a black cat. We have no reason why. Maybe it was just a stray that passed by. Maybe it's because they're occult practitioners.

[B]

Just to say, like, what should our mascot be? Yeah. Oh, everyone's scared of black cats. Let's do that. That, you know.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like an omen. Sure.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

They would also drink this concoction called Scalvine. Have you heard of this?

[B]

No.

[A]

Apparently.

[B]

Sounds like a cleaning agent.

[A]

It actually. I mean, you tell me if this. I've heard worse. Whiskey and butter. It's like coffee and butter. Some people say that that's good.

[B]

It's gross, but, I mean, it's art. It's inarguably gross. But, like, I also don't like coffee and butter, and I don't like bourbon with anything. So I'm not the one to judge.

[A]

But am, I guess, in my mind of all the things.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I feel like it's kind of supposed to be like that. Like a butterscotch kind of situation.

[B]

Yeah. I. I'm sure it's like, fine, I'd rather drink that than the pigeon. I'll tell you what.

[A]

You and me both. Yeah. It's also said that their meetings. Out at their meetings, they would always keep an open seat for the devil. Very, very.

[B]

It's just, like, absurd at this point. It's like. Yeah, it's, like, funny to me because it's just like, they're clearly just trying to get a rise out of people.

[A]

Yeah. And it's so. It is unclear how, at least in the beginning, how truly into the occult the group was. And not even in the beginning, it like, all. And all in all, we really don't know much about what happened here, but because of its rumored relationship to the occult, people just guess a lot. But there really is no evidence of this. It's just that because they were so anti Jesus, they must be pro Satan.

[B]

Right, Right, right. I mean, one of the. One of them had the costume. Right. So.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I would be curious to see what a devil costume looked like in the 1730s.

[B]

Oh, I would be terrified. I bet you it's, you know, like, when. Cute masks back then, like, cute early Halloween masks that, like, just look so terrible. Have you seen those? Like, my stepmom showed me her old, like, 1950s Halloween masks.

[A]

Oh, yes. They are absolutely fucking frightful.

[B]

Like, fucking terrifying. Imagine, like a couple hundred years before that. Like, what in the world?

[A]

I feel like it Was made out of like cast iron. Like it was like something. Yeah, like something medieval.

[B]

They're like, we'll put real cat fur on the top. Like stop it. It's just all so unpleasant to look at. Oh my God.

[A]

Like, like a literal pitchfork.

[B]

Probably the mouse. The, the mouse ones. Like I think it's supposed to look like Mickey Mouse and they just look like these.

[A]

Yeah, there's just something so dead in the eyes. I don't know what it is.

[B]

And like the smiles are all so big and they don't really move at all. So it's like. Anyway, anyway. Send you a jump scare real quick.

[A]

I could see why the Christians would pray harder, you know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah, I do too. I get it.

[A]

Oh, forget it, Christine.

[B]

With that, right? Like these are terrible. And then imagine like your parents dress up like this for the Hallo Halloween party. Like there's an actual picture of a couple in these masks.

[A]

I forget.

[B]

I mean it's like, it's like haunting. And those are the, those are the Disney branded masks. Imagine like the off brand, you know.

[A]

Oh yeah. Well, so we don't know how truly into the occult they started. And I don't know if it's like the chicken or the egg. But eventually others did join with more nefarious interests. And I'm sure them hearing that they were, I don't know, open to darkness in some way that, you know, they thought probably they could come on in.

[B]

So I mean, probably Satan heard about this and was like, well that's an easy entry point, right? Yeah, like if I want to collect.

[A]

A few young bucks, couple blasters here and there. So the worst of them that we have on record of the members that came through here was Lord Santry.

[B]

I knew it. I knew it. The moment you said that guy's name, I was like, I don't like him.

[A]

Doesn't he sound evil?

[B]

Something's evil about this guy.

[A]

Lord is it's really that.

[B]

Maybe that's what it is.

[A]

Well, so he straight up murdered his servant. And by murdered it was like I, I'm, you know, you know what I mean by this? But like in an evil way. Like it wasn't like a, it was a painful, torturous murder. And then he paid people off to get away with it. It. And he. And then he just killed another servant like because he knew he could get away with it again. So the way that he killed the first one is that he force fed the servants an entire bottle of brandy. An entire bottle of brandy off oh, my God. And then set him on fire, presumably to see if his stomach would just immediately combust.

[B]

Oh, so he's, like, sick. Sicko. Like, he's sick, this guy.

[A]

Like, you know, when you hear of, like, the. The. The serial killers who are just, like, I just wanted to see what it would, like, look.

[B]

Look like. Right. He's like a psychopathic.

[A]

Yeah. Like, no emotion to it.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Paid up. Paid people off who witnessed it and then ended up, like, stabbing another servant and killing him.

[B]

This is like, how these people get away, because the people in the group who aren't necessarily at their core empty and evil just get swayed into saying, turning a blind eye. Right. And then it's like, oh, then the people like this get to just. Just run around.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, imagine if there was someone on, like, the. I'm gonna use a fraternity phrase here, but on the E Board, like, on, like, the. The people, the higher ups here, imagine being someone who's, like, trying to, like, PR wise, keep it to a minimum. Like, yeah, we mock the church, but we're not evil. And then this guy, like, it's just.

[B]

A joke, guys, right? You know, and then, like, oh, yeah.

[A]

And then a literal multi. Multi time murderer is one of your members.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Oh, this is gonna look so bad.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then they're like, well, we better cover our reputation, so don't let it get out, you know? And then it just, like, devolves.

[A]

Another guy was named Simon Luttrell, who. He did not kill anybody, but he. I guess either the lore around him is really intense, or he swore by this himself that he had made a deal with the devil in exchange for his soul. And at some point. At some point, I guess when the clock struck midnight, all of a sudden he knew that the devil was coming, and so he ran off. But it became this whole story that, like. Like, someone in here has literally made a deal with the devil. And so.

[B]

Aha. Okay. We've crossed some sort of threshold.

[A]

Yeah. So now we're making deals with the devil. We. There have been murderers who have been in this club. And so it Just on top of everything else, really, Amelia started, and they're.

[B]

Also, like, paying people off. So there's a lot of, like.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Corruption there. Corruption. Yeah. It just seems like it's ready for that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So darker stories just kind of started coming out, and it just. Even if it started with good intentions or silly intentions, like if the worst thing you did was, like, flash a clergyman.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's. It's no longer that to the public anymore.

[B]

Right, right, right, right, right. They can't look away anymore. Yeah.

[A]

And who's to say people, again, it was hundreds of years ago. Who's to say that these are stories that we were getting direct witness accounts from? Or maybe this was just like scared Christians who were just making up stories, I don't know. But over time people started saying that the Hellfire Club was involved in very intense orgies, that there was animal sacrifice, alleged children sacrifice. There is a rumor that has 20, 25 at least that they one time kidnapped, killed and ate a woman.

[B]

What?

[A]

Who knows if it's true. But it is a story on like every website I saw. So it is renown at this point amongst the animal sacrifice. They've also suggested animal torture, including similar with that servant dowsing animals with alcohol. And hopefully it's not true. But setting them on fire.

[B]

Oh God. Oh God. It's all bad. I hope all of it's. I hope the other thing wasn't true either.

[A]

I hope they were just into philosophy at school and they just sat around.

[B]

And talked like beer and were just like got a bad reputation, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. There are rumors that skeletons of sacrificial victims are all around the area, are buried around the area. And actually in the 1970s there was a grave of a child and their remains that was found on the property. But again, we have no idea of the context. Someone find could have put it there to make them look bad. Maybe some a completely separate situation happened on the property. Right. But again, it just means that Even in the 1970s, right before satanic panic, we're still. Is still happening and perpetuating from all this. The reputation was cemented as wicked, monstrous and they were all satanic worshipers. And stories started coming out about them cavorting with the devil throughout the years. And one of the most famous stories about the Hellfire Club, or this one at least, is that one day a cloaked stranger visited the club and the guys invited him in for a game of cards. And they're all having a good time. They're drinking, they're shooting the. And a couple hours in, they're still playing cards. One guy drops his cards while he's sitting at the table. So he bends down to grab them and when he bends down, he looks and sees that the guy's feet are actually cloven hooves. That's the most famous one. Another one is that a curious visitor came to the Hellfire Club to see what they were all about. So they invited him in and the next day, he was found so shaken that he never spoke again. The third and final, most popular story from this Hellfire Club is that another curious visitor, who I guess was.

[B]

Why are all these people so curious?

[A]

I know. And also, I love that they are just welcoming anyone in.

[B]

Seriously, I'm just curious. Okay, that's all we need.

[A]

We're slicing a throat of a goat open. Come on in.

[B]

Like, come on in. DP's out back. Let's go.

[A]

DP's out back. The devil's out front. Come on in. Anyway, another curious visitor. He's apparently visiting all of Ireland because he's like a guest at a boarding house or something, or he's. He has a host or a landlord or something that he's staying with.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

So this guy's curious. He goes over to the Hellfire Club, which, honestly, I could see myself doing this today.

[B]

I literally knew this was exactly where we were going to end up, is that I was going to say if anyone would do this. This to you, because you'd be like, well, I just saw it on Atlas Obscura.

[A]

And then literally, yes, Atlas Obscura is going to kill me. I'm telling you, they're going to be the, like, the amount of abandoned ruins I've gone to because.

[B]

And then you're like, this is not exactly what I thought it was going to be.

[A]

Anyway, they will never be sponsoring us after that. Real.

[B]

No. Listen, I love it, but, man, they do send you to some weird places. I think that's a.

[A]

That's. Them and Randonautica should have done a collaboration with each other. It's like, what's the craziest place we could put you? You.

[B]

Yeah, let's just team up with these coordinates.

[A]

So, curious guy, he's in town and he goes because he wants to see what's going on. The guys let him in, and all of a sudden, he goes missing.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

And his host, the guy he's staying with, whatever, was like, where the hell is this guy? He said he was going to the Hellfire Club. I'm gonna go check there, see if he's there. So the host, because he knows what the rumors are of that place, he brings a priest with him. He's like, you're coming with me to the Hellfire Club. No, because I'm looking for this guy and I don't know where he is. So they both go, and the Hellfire Club invites them in for dinner, AKA a feast. The priest comes in for a feast, and during this apparently the priest sees a dalmatian sized black cat with horns for ears.

[B]

Dalmatian size, literally.

[A]

I'm not kidding. I know it sounds stupid. Four different websites said dalmatian size.

[B]

Why?

[A]

There's so many other things you could, you could just said dog size.

[B]

Yeah, what could you possibly mean?

[A]

You could just said big fucking cat.

[B]

Like, like, like any other animal that's about the size of a dog.

[A]

And if it has horns for ears, why don't you see a goat? A black, a black cat. That's a goat.

[B]

Like, because he's for sure. Just like it probably was a goat.

[A]

I feel like this just saw 101 Dalmatians and was like, I know all about this.

[B]

Like hang on, are you going to turn him into a coat? And they're like, what the fuck are you talking about? You drank too much wine.

[A]

So the priest sees this big ass cat and is so scared that he grabs his holy water and that he just keeps on him, it's strapped on him at all times. And he immediately mid feast in front of all these anti Christians starts exercising their dalmatian, I think.

[B]

And then they're like, this is why we don't bring priests in here. We're just trying to have a nice meal. And the guy starts chanting in Latin again.

[A]

It's like forgive us for rescuing a big cat.

[B]

I mean come on, this go needed a home.

[A]

Anyway, he starts exercising the cat. Apparently the cat dies on site like immediately from this exorcism. Again, this is a rumored like popular story.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay. This is like how the story goes.

[A]

The second I said dalmatian size cat, you should have known. This is like Reddit.

[B]

I, I really was still in it. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna choose to believe.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

No, in the magic of the holidays.

[A]

So cat dies and the priest is like, phew, I exercised a demon. You are also welcome anti Christians, you demons. I killed your cat. You're wel cat.

[B]

Literally, I killed your cat. You feel better now? Like hello.

[A]

Well then the story goes that as they're leaving, I don't know why they're leaving on their own accord and they weren't dragged out for killing this. Yeah, their animal. But they and the men end up leaving and on their way out they find the missing man on the ground covered in scratch marks as if he had been released from the possession of this cat.

[B]

Oh, he was the goat the whole time. The cat the whole time, yeah. Oh my God.

[A]

So again I feel like the Christians created that because it's like, look how we saved them for themselves story.

[B]

Like, yeah, the pre sense of being the good guy. He's like, I'm just friendly. I want to see what this is all about. And then, of course, yeah, he saves the day.

[A]

And a doubting Thomas went on over there and look what happened. The demon, the devil took him. Also, a lot of people will combine stories two and three and say after the priest saved this guy from being possessed by the cat, that he was so shaken he never spoke again.

[B]

Oh, okay. I kind of. That's cleaner to me because the other one was like, okay, so what, like, what if he just got punched in the head and didn't want to talk about it? Like, I don't know. Not that that's good, but like, I don't know, like it's. I don't know the guy if he's not talking.

[A]

I. I said the same thing. I was like, why did we even separate these two?

[B]

Yeah, I agree. Let's smash them together.

[A]

Okay. A few years later, this. We're back to reality now. A few years later, a horrible fire broke out in the building of the Hellfire Club. And many people. This is so weird. This is another thing where every single website had a different thing to say. But there are. There's a lot of speculation on this fire even to this day. Some people think it was accidental, like someone just slipped and a fire happened. Some people thought it was on purpose because like the. Some sort of negotiation problem with the rent. Some people thought it was intentional. Truly, I'm not kidding. This was a major reason people think it was intentional for the aesthetic. So the place looked creepier.

[B]

It's that one guy who called themselves the Pushers. What were they? The bulldozers, Young bucks.

[A]

The Blasters.

[B]

The Blasters. And they're. He's like, no, no, this will work, guys. Look, it's just going to be a little tinge. I'm just going to take a. A candle and like light. Sing a few of the curtains, see.

[A]

If it was really cool for like a, For a, A promo pic or something. It's like, no, let's all take a picture in front of the place on fire. They'll love it.

[B]

Oh, my God, our album cover will be sick, whatever it was, by the way.

[A]

Right? And also, I'm surprised that nobody suggested, like, this was a ritual gone wrong.

[B]

Oh, see, that's good. Mc, we gotta rewrite this.

[A]

Okay, okay. Down the hill, though, on the same property. This was back before the Hellfire Club was even there. When that really wealthy politician was here, he also built another house on the property called the Steward's House. And after this fire broke out at the Hellfire Club, they just moved their clubs over to this little house and that's where the Hellfire Club stayed on the property until their founder, the founder of this chapter died. And after that, the Hellfire Club kind of just disbanded. We will never know truly how much of the stories are true or other. Like, I mean, I just told you.

[B]

Three out of five is invented. And em and I go to all the meetings.

[A]

I. I'm calling dibs before anybody else does it. The second time travel is real and it's accessible to us. I want to be the first time travel blogger. Don't get in my way. Unless you can go into the future.

[B]

And do a fucking call Atlas Obscura now and make amends because you're gonna have to partner with them pretty soon. When time travel exists. And you've already. We've already hurt their feelings today, you.

[A]

Know, when time travel exists. It is fucking over for you people.

[B]

Over for all of you. Okay?

[A]

You are all in trouble.

[B]

I'm including me. I'm just excited about it, you know, don't worry. Story.

[A]

But yeah, so we really don't. Those are just kind of the most popular stories, but we don't really know all that happened. For all we know, they were just well educated social elites into science and they just like to like play cards.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, one country, I will say a lot of the members of this chapter of the Hellfire Club were literally like from Trinity or Cambridge and they were graduates from those schools. And so maybe they were just demonized for critically questioning religion. Religion, you know what I mean? Or, and one can hope, or since we do know that there were some who did believe in making deals with the devil and there were people who committed horrible crimes. Maybe they were practicing demonic.

[B]

Plenty of frat boys who convicted who did horrible, terrible things and didn't need Satan involved, you know, so yeah, like.

[A]

Maybe, maybe they were just bad and the demon has nothing to do with it.

[B]

Maybe some of them were bad, you.

[A]

Know, and, and I'll tell you, as a member of multiple Greek organizations, there are all sorts of people in there, right? And so maybe there was just like someone who just wanted to go like, make friends in color like I did, you know, there's got to be one, by the way.

[B]

And we'll be bringing a coloring book back in time to, to the meetings in case they get bored before my.

[A]

My Greek Organization's first club on campus. I joined coloring club. I'm not kidding. It was the best.

[B]

And that was not kidding. I know.

[A]

And I joined it on the. The Friday that Rebecca Black's Friday, because that. That's.

[B]

We all remember that Friday, right, guys? Yeah.

[A]

Because it came out on, like, a Tuesday or something. And the first Friday where we could all play Friday by Rebecca Black was a sensation. You had.

[B]

Oh, it was. I remember the front. You had to be there. It was. I remember the front of, like, the AU newspaper that day, and it was like, it's Friday. And it had, like. I will never forget that day. It was. I think I still have a copy of that somewhere, because I saved it in a book box. I just thought it was so funny.

[A]

We used to be a proper country. That was.

[B]

I know those were the good old days, but that was.

[A]

I. That was my first day of coloring club. And I was sitting there, and everyone was just screaming the words anyway, you know, someone just wanted this to be. Coloring club on a hill.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With a good.

[B]

Maybe that's what it was all meant to be and it just got out of hand, you know, maybe the colorings.

[A]

Are friends we made along the way, you know? Wow.

[B]

Now that's a beautiful PO ending.

[A]

As for the ghosts, there are a lot of footsteps on the property. A black cat is seen literally everywhere. Although, again, could be a stray, or it could be, like, people still go out there and try to do rituals, and someone could just leave a cat out there. You know what I mean? Like a prank or something, or it.

[B]

Just ran away from.

[A]

Yeah. There's actually a painting of this cat, which I don't know all the details because every source had something different. But what I'm gathering is somebody who actually saw the ghost of a black cat painted that, thinking it was the original cat. Cat. Like, it was like the ghost of the original black cat that used to be their mascot. And to this day, it's hanging there. And if you hang it upside down while you're ghost hunting, like, a lot of happens.

[B]

Oh, that's fun.

[A]

So fun.

[B]

Little twist.

[A]

Yeah, I guess it's like just a. Especially in a space where, like, theoretically, there's a lot of occult stuff going on there. I imagine turning a portrait, a haunted portrait upside down is, like, really showing your intention, Right?

[B]

Yeah. You're like, I'm not here to around, or I am here to around.

[A]

So people have seen apparitions of the priest from that one story. They've seen apparitions of nuns. They've seen people performing masses and they weren't actually there. People see this cat everywhere, but sometimes with glowing red eyes to a point where, like, people doing renovations have left because a cat with red eyes kept staring at them.

[B]

Yuck.

[A]

People hear a screaming woman in the woods, which I take one guess he likes to call her a banshee.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

People smell something burning here. A lot of people have said burning skin, which would. I don't know if that's true or they're just trying to make it similar to the stories of torture. People feel hands grabbing at them, especially their jewelry. Like their people's jewelry has gotten yanked off of them. Ooh. Bracelets, necklaces, anything. They could feel it get yanked off them. People hear bells. People feel the ground shake for no reason. People have gotten shoved, scratched, pinched, you name it. And they've heard voices of someone telling them to get out. And I guess people have brought crucifixes here and they get like white hot to the touch.

[B]

Ew. I was gonna say, don't tell me they, like get burning hot, because I don't know why that happens, but I don't like it.

[A]

Apparently the feeling of doom is, like, insane here. There was some traveling reporter who said, like, I've been to the Tower of London and I've been to, you know, insert a bunch of haunted places here, and I've never felt any like this, so. And I'm sure even I'm not trying to be like such a diplomatic. Maybe they were, maybe they won't. I'm just like. I'm very aware of, like, this. There's no evidence. And it feels like this was kind of just a club that wanted to hang out and they just. I don't. I don't know how true it is. And so anyway, I'm being a little. Maybe too political or.

[B]

No, you're being very diplomatic about it. Because I also feel like, like you said, it was right before satanic panic, which I'm sure is when a lot of this stuff took off, story wise. And we know things were embellished and we know things were made up back then to, like, point to. So I'm. Yeah, I would not be surprised.

[A]

It could have been nothing. I. I believe that. I don't know what I believe. I believe that at the very beginning, it was not this. And I think either some people came in and ruined it for everyone or a bunch of scared Christians just up their reputation out of fear or like, I think maybe nothing was going on there. And because of its reputation in Today's world. So many people have gone there to practice stuff that now there's energy there created.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

What's it?

[B]

Tulpa.

[A]

Tulpa. Thank you.

[B]

I think a tulpa. Is that more like an actual being?

[A]

I think it's more of a being, but it's the.

[B]

Or is that a golem? I don't know anymore.

[A]

What's it. Is it. Maybe it's a dozen looted pony? Last thing I will tell you is of course I think I'm Zach Biggins.

[B]

Because I've been trying to tell you all along.

[A]

I looked up Ghost Adventures Hellfire Club and this man went there because it was Ireland for a Halloween special. See, I felt so grossed out that my brain works like his.

[B]

Oh, my God. See, you're the same.

[A]

It was an hour and a half long song. So more of him than ever.

[B]

Shorter than our episodes.

[A]

Which means I'm not going to talk about the entire thing, but I will give you like a little snippet. And I do. Before I even start this, I would like you to open Discovery plus and I want to show you a clip.

[B]

Okay. Let me find my.

[A]

It is 12. 5. Damn, this tea is good. I really wish you could try it. Actually, don't. I don't want to.

[B]

I wasn't going to even try.

[A]

Here, I'll let you have a little sip. Here, just take a sip. There you go.

[B]

Delicious.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

All right, so I'm on. It's. Sorry, Season what now?

[A]

12 and then 5.

[B]

Oh, dear. Okay, I accidentally clicked House calls season.

[A]

For someone who's terrified of the phone, imagine if he was your. Your call. I would imagine if he finally got the bravery. Pick up a phone, say that. Hello, Zack.

[B]

Why do you think I'm afraid of the phone? Intrusive thoughts. Like this one. What time stamp would you like me to go to?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Or should I wait until you're.

[A]

Well? Okay, so I don't know if it's different for you, but I could only see the. Like on a. On a time. I can only see the end part where it says how much time is left? So I don't know what time.

[B]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[A]

Can you go to where it Looks like there's 51 minutes and 10 seconds left?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it should look like Aaron's kind of just sitting there.

[B]

Yeah, it's there. Yep, that's. There he is.

[A]

Okay, so before you press play, just to set up the scene, I'm just.

[B]

Gonna play a few seconds here to get to the right There we go.

[A]

Okay, so when we get there or when they're looking around, pretty immediately, Aaron is super duper affected by this place. And I just want to say, even before I say that, because of course I got to give you a Zach Bagan's line. I can't tell. I can't do this without giving you, like, an infamous quote from Episode Mood. I'll set the mood. Aaron was trying really hard to be kind to all these ghosts and introduce themselves. And he was like, my name's Aaron and Zach, and I quote, I'm here for coloring club. Zach says, aaron, you're talking to demons, not women. Making us a pie. And then Aaron goes, excuse me for his nastiness. Like, it's like, don't. Don't put that on me.

[B]

Hello. What is wrong with this man? Making us a pie?

[A]

No, no, not women. Remember that. Making us a shit pie.

[B]

What in the actual hell are you on, mister?

[A]

Did he overhear someone else say that in a different context? And he just, like, thinks he think that sounds cool?

[B]

I don't even, like, know what that means.

[A]

Does he think there's a hot girl out there who heard that and went, you're so funny?

[B]

I guess there must be, because people fawn over this fella.

[A]

Insane to me. Okay, so anyway, Aaron's already trying to be nice, and honestly, between the two of them, Zach should be the one.

[B]

Getting a bullied for it. Right? Right.

[A]

However, it never goes that way. And Aaron starts feeling something on him right away. He is freaked out. He even tells Zach, don't go in that room. Something bad's gonna happen. He's like.

[B]

He's like, watch out, here I come. Yeah.

[A]

And then immediately, things start moving. You hear like, pebbles and glass move across the floor, and they're like, whoa, something moved. And right around this time, Aaron starts. I. I'm assuming there's like, some little, like, tinge of possession, because all of a sudden he starts saying that he's.

[B]

Not a dabble, just a tinge.

[A]

Well, he's like, I just stood up. And, like, felt like I, like, stood up up, like, at attention when you turned the corner. And I didn't do that. Like, I was sitting. And all of a sudden, like, I just.

[B]

Oh, you jumped up. Oh, ew.

[A]

So he said he felt like he was a little out of control. And then he feels something with nails grab his ear.

[B]

Ew.

[A]

And I've never seen Aaron actually that freaked out. Like, he's bolting out of there. He, like, he can't stop talking about it. And he just immediately starts crying, crying, crying.

[B]

Oh shit it.

[A]

And he is quoted saying, it felt like I was touched by Satan. And like he's so freaked out that as they just started this investigation and Zach and him get in a golf cart and literally just start driving away like they were going to leave. Like not even. Because Aaron was so freaked out. And then they. Obviously he's not thinking straight, but they're in the middle of the woods and they're on their way to escaping. But then Aaron has another panic attack and he's like, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. And he just needed to sit like in the grass for a second because he's so fre.

[B]

Touch grass?

[A]

Yeah, literally touch grass. And while still crying, like crying, like sniffling crying, like scared crying. He says, and of course Zach is who he is. Aaron says, I swear to God, it felt like the devil. I swear, don't put this on camera. But it does.

[B]

Hey. And then remember a few short years later when his wife literally tries to kill him and Zach is like, oh, so sorry bro. Let's immediately film it for the TV show. I mean, for, for God's sake. This guy just won't give it a fucking rest, you know?

[A]

So I will say later on in the episode, Zack goes back by himself and uses the spirit box and he asks what touched Eren tonight? And the only word he got was Satan. Super creepy.

[B]

Bye. That's no good.

[A]

What I'm going to show you right now though is him still out in the grass freaking out. And this is. He's trying to calm himself down. He's like, there's nothing we can do about it now. We just need to like keep it moving in. And this is in the area where people say that they hear this woman screaming. So. Okay, now press the time stamp if you can.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The timestamp for everyone by the way, is 3350.

[B]

You got it? Here we go. Bye.

[A]

You heard it?

[B]

It, yeah.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Yuck.

[A]

Okay, I, I, I'm so glad that you heard it because I was like, I, I feel like that's creepy as, especially after he's like crying and I.

[B]

Think it's a cat. Like I think it's like a, A cat. Yeah. Which like also feels apropos. Right? But I think it's like one of those wild cats, cuz it goes like, like it sounds like that.

[A]

Let me play for myself because now I want to hear it as a character cat. I don't know. I mean, I could see cat though. I can See, I think.

[B]

But you know, not even like a normal cat. Like the kind of sound you hear in the woods when people are like, I heard a woman screaming. And then it's like it turns out to be like a mountain lion or something. And you're like, oh, it sounded like a woman screaming. And people were like, no, it literally does, like a lot of times. So I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to just immediately discount it, but it does sort of sound like when my cats are hunting at night and they go, like what? Like that.

[A]

Interesting, because I. Before that. Com. The conversation I'm having with you right now, I went, that's terrifying.

[B]

I mean, it's. It is. To be clear, it's terrifying. And if that happened in front of me, I would absolutely. My pants.

[A]

But now it's terrifying for a different reason. Because it's like what happens at Spoiler Alert? They then decide to go looking for the banshee in the woods. Like you're being hunted by a mountain lion.

[B]

Right. Is going to eat you. Because also that's the sound that my. That moonshine makes when he's drowned running something. He goes like, it's horrible.

[A]

Well, that was definitely the creepiest part of the episode.

[B]

So, I mean, it's terrifying.

[A]

I will say the last two points is that remains of the Hellfire Club and the steward's house where they went after the fire. They're both still there. They are open to the public and tours are offered here. I think there's multiple tours, but the one that sounds the worst to me is a three hour horror hike, which is what I call every hike, by the way.

[B]

Yeah, but like, not three hours. We don't do that. Those.

[A]

But you do have to go like into the woods. Right. So they will. They'll take you all the way up there. And the last thing I wanted to say is. Fun fact. On June 6th in 2006, people came out here to see if the Antichrist would appear because it was 666.

[B]

People are so stupid.

[A]

So if you would like to go, go for it. I do.

[B]

There are warnings here. Don't leave us hanging.

[A]

No, I think he showed up in 2016 and then again a few years later as president. Both times. But whatever.

[B]

Wrong country go, wrong country free.

[A]

If you do go, there are warnings that people, even though they're not really supposed to be doing this, will sometimes be caught trying to do rituals up here. So just beware of that. And that is the Hellfire Club.

[B]

Oh, my God, I don't think I knew a single thing about the Hellfire Club. I just knew of it.

[A]

I assumed it would be more haunted, but people really, because I researching it, I was actively looking up like paranormal spirits. Like every buzzword I could and everything just kind of talked about the. The are they, aren't they? Of how scary they truly might be and like what the rumors are. But there was really very. I had to go digging for scary spooky stuff that actually has happened there since. Damn YouTube has a lot of good stuff, but if you're looking for like reading, there's very little material.

[B]

Man, I think I just got Hell's Far Hellfire Club conflated. I think I conflate them with Hell's Angels in my head of just like biker bar type thing. And then I forget they all do.

[A]

A good job of the second I hear hell. I just clash them together as like a big.

[B]

You're like scary. Yeah, scary junk, man. Anyway, well, thank you. That was a great story. I. I feel like I actually did learn something useful today.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

No offense to say that. I didn't mean to say that so rudely. I just meant, you know.

[A]

No, that was only a compliment.

[B]

I don't know where you heard an insult on that. Sometimes things don't stick, you know, if.

[A]

You can hear from my voice. Christine, I just woke up while we. We're recording an hour early. And one, I didn't want to do it because I didn't want to wake up an hour early. But two, the main reason is because I didn't want to get out of my Helix mattress. I gotta be honest, I don't know.

[B]

Why you did you know that I record from there at least 80% of today. Ironically, I'm not, but I feel like, although it is dangerous because then you do start to slide down and feel like, oh my. My back feels so supported. And this, I mean, it's just like it's life changing, these mattresses. I mean, I. I'm sure they don't recommend you work from them, but I've had a success with that.

[A]

It's. It's an incredible mattress. You know who else likes it? Your dog. Because anytime I'm not in that bed, Hank is in that bed. It is 100% used 24 7, 365 over here.

[B]

So yes, it's dog approved. It' especially to people with sleep troubles and insomnia. So that should say something. So go to helix sleep.com drink for 27% off site wide exclusive for Listeners oven. That's why we drink.

[A]

That's helix sleep.com drink for 27% off site wide exclusive for listeners of and that's why we drink helixleep.com Drink as somebody who is on beta blockers daily.

[B]

I not, not to brag, not to.

[A]

Brag, but I'm on them daily. And then I triple the dosage when I'm on a stage. For those, those who might also need that, I have a place where maybe you can find yourself a doctor. You can go to zocdoc. That's how I found my doctor. Christine recommended him to me. He was very wonderful. I told him all my problems and he said, you need a beta blocker like right now. And I went, couldn't agree more.

[B]

I said, oh, go see my guy.

[A]

Yeah. Like I've never been Mafioso sheifer. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And like I found him through ZOC doc. So it's like, wow, this, this service has gotten us through a lot of medical break and it was right away.

[A]

I mean, so ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment.

[B]

I know. And I said, my guy. You got to get with my guy. No, but it turns out it's just sock dog. I mean he's great too. But ZOC dog is the one that made it so easy. Not me and not the dude. But they do filter for doctors who take your insurance. You can filter for that. You can filter for location, obviously ratings. You know, they're rated. Rated by verified patients. And then you can see their openings and instead of making a phone call, yuck.

[A]

You just click stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com drink to find an instantly book a top rated doctor today.

[B]

That's z o c-o c.com drink zocdoc.com drink.

[A]

Christine and I just had a bout of fun and we actually recorded our Patreon Yappy hour before she disturbs all of us with a crime. So, so if later when you're.

[B]

Why didn't we ever think of doing that? Like, I don't know. Because it's after the more fun topic.

[A]

And we're in higher spirits.

[B]

Yes. And we're, we're getting a snack and we're not like so exhausted because we're, we've only done half the show. Like I feel like that's a way better vibe.

[A]

10 years or however long.

[B]

Don't say 10. Don't say it yet.

[A]

It is January is nine, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We gotta figure out something to do for a 10 year celebration.

[B]

Jesus Christ. You know it's gonna take us two years to plan it.

[A]

I know, but if you go and listen to Patreon, you'll see that we can plant things very well whenever you're.

[B]

Operating in a matter of seconds. And then just. We just need to rely on someone else to. We outsource it. We send out for the sensor.

[A]

Yeah, I'll. I'll tell the coffee shop. They'll do it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they'll do it.

[A]

Anyway, if you go listen to Patreon today and listen to our Yappy Hour and we seem to like, we're actually super happy. It's because we haven't heard the sad things yet. And now we're about to hear the sad.

[B]

Yeah. So I joked about this and it's probably an insane thing to do, but I was saying we should have the intermission like the yap year we just did and then have you pause the show after em. Still listen to the happy hour as intermission and come back. But that felt a little. That felt a little.

[A]

Someone will.

[B]

Someone will. And honestly, try it and let me know how it goes. If you do want to try it, let know me. Let me know.

[A]

It's. It's kind of like the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's like, do you want to listen to it chronologically? Do you want to listen to it?

[B]

You know, such a good point. I know.

[A]

I'm full of them.

[B]

You're full of them. As we learned in the Yappy Hour where we came up with the best idea.

[A]

Sure did.

[B]

Yeah. Sure did. So this is this. And Eva's like, what? I better go.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

Because we, we literally said, I think Eva won't find out about this because she doesn't watch this part. But now she will. Okay, so here, this is so interestingly, you did a story from Ireland and I thought when you said, oh, this is an October episode, I'm going to do something Halloweeny, I was like, ah. Because I was like, I didn't even think that in my brain. And so just by sheer happenstance, my story also takes place in Ireland. So I guess I did plan it somehow. And these were actually notes I meant to use two weeks ago. So all very strange. Yeah, A little synchronicities. But I, full disclosure, did not do this on purpose. Like pick an Irish story. But here we are with another Irish story.

[A]

We both felt. We felt some, some pagan air.

[B]

Luckily Irish.

[A]

Yeah. We're like, let's just go for it. Let's do something spooky.

[B]

Let's go for it. And this one is definitely disturbing. It is about a child. So do with that what you will. Maybe just go to the intermission again. But it's the story of Mary Boyle. So she was born in 1970 to Charlie and Anne Boyle and she had an identical twin sister named Anne, which is also her mother's name. And I just thought that's fun. Like it's like Ann Jr. Yeah, but. But then the twin sister gets like a totally different name.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I mean, I have seen that. I'm like, what's that about? I never understood when families have like juniors or thirds. But like it comes after K. You could have already named.

[B]

Yeah, I always wonder that too. I'm like, what's the kind of protocol? Or is it like you already had kids names in mind and then you thought about it later like, oh, I could do a junior. I don't know. But yeah, it does seem like a twist up.

[A]

Yeah, I like. And in my brain it feels like you're expected to get that one out of the way first if you're trying to do a legacy.

[B]

Because it that, I mean, not to be all about the office again, but like when Andy Bernard, like his younger brother is June, is like the 3rd or like the 14th or something crazy. And like they passed him and gave it to the brother because it was like that many generations. Yeah, that's really rough.

[A]

Well, because I, and I could see your theory of like, oh, we already used up the names we wanted and yeah, another kid. So we just kind of tacked it on. I could see that for a junior and maybe a third, but once again you get to third.

[B]

It's beyond that.

[A]

It's like you, if you knew this was coming, you have a responsibility. In my mind, like I'm friends with a fourth and I'm like, there's no way a fifth. It, like if you've already gotten there and so few people do, it has to have come across your mind that fifth is something you could and in my mind should do.

[B]

Fun fact. My uncle and my cousin, but my uncle specifically was, was. He's the 12th or 13th of like the N family name.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Like, so annoying. And my grandfather had six daughters and like he was trying for a boy because he wanted, he needed to name whatever he wanted the family name to go on. So he had six girls and then one boy and then one more girl, but he had seven girls and one boy just Trying to get that damn name. And I'm like, was it worth eight children to try that one?

[A]

How's your bank account?

[B]

Like, yeah, right. I don't know what you were thinking, but what a.

[A]

What a commitment in every way. And also, this is another one that really. This. I'll try to keep it tight. The Duggers, as you know, they. The 13th kid is James and James is like James Duggar, the fifth or sixth. And I'm like, why would you wait for 13? Maybe they just later want to do that.

[B]

And then they were like, oh, we have. We. We stuck to the J name theme and we can't think of another.

[A]

I'm. I'm shocked. I'm like, if you're already.

[B]

That's really.

[A]

Keep it up, you know.

[B]

So it's really strange to me. Maybe they knew they were gonna have so many kids that they were like, well, one of them will eventually, you know, It.

[A]

It would have been really cool if, like, he's the 13th and they were. He was like, James Duggar, the 13th, and they waited for the 13th kid. That would have been cool.

[B]

Oh, so, yeah, that's at least more then it' golden number, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Or golden age or whatever. The.

[A]

The seventh son of the seventh son or whatever.

[B]

That's Jesus. Be careful. No, I'm kidding.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

It feels like something I learned in second grade. Like king of kings, seventh son of the seventh son. Anyway, so I just thought that was funny because identical twin sisters. And what I get, what I'm guessing, is that the mom they were gonna name the baby Anne didn't know they were having twins. Twins back then. Right. You wouldn't know that necessarily. And had twins and was like, well, we already have Anne. Now we need another name. So maybe that's what happened. I'm not sure, but one.

[A]

That's a great point.

[B]

Twin sisters was named Anne after her mother, and then the other one was Mary, and then there was Mary. They also had an older brother named Patrick, and they lived in Donegal, which is the furthest northwest county of Ireland. And Saoirse made a nice note here that counties in Ireland are similar. Similar to states in the US So we can kind of picture it like that. Anne was an adventurous and independent girl. She was very bold and liked to be outside and play games, but she did not like to go places without trusted adults. And I. Maybe it's hindsight, but that already gives me red flags. Like if a girl is scared to. Like a little girl is scared to be off without. Yeah. What happened Adult. I'm like, what's going on? But maybe I'm reading too much into it. So she was very attached, especially to her mother. Not that unusual. Her mother described her as an awful careful child and said she was very kind and considerate. She often would stay in with her mom when all the kids would go out to play and would just like help her clean up after dinner or like just want to talk while she, you know, cleaned dishes, which I thought was very cute. And Anne, her sister, her twin sister, knew, you know, the, the different side of, of Mary, that she was fun and fierce and feisty and she, Ann always said Mary was the one that I let talk for me. Like she was the one who could, you know, speak on behalf of both of us. Like when twins, you know, have that kind of like one is the outspoken one. Yeah, that kind of vibe. So that was Mary. She kind of spoke for the both of us of them and she was very bold, like she stood her ground. So they also like to play little pranks as if you're not, if you are a twin and you never pulled any fun shenanigans, then like, what were you doing? You've really, really lost the plot, man. Cuz you could have.

[A]

You don't understand the jealousy. You don't, like, you had such an opportunity to be hysterical. What are you doing?

[B]

It could have been a sitcom, you know, just built in. Sitcom. Yeah, yeah. My friend has twins and I'm like, oh boy, the shenanigans. I'm like, liana, be friends with those twins because it's gonna be a fun ride.

[A]

Especially if they're identical twins. The hijinks ensue. Are you.

[B]

Oh, that's hijinks indeed. So they were identical twins, the boils. And they would, for example, change their clothes in the middle of the day and then like, you know, pretend to be each other. Classic. They were very, very happy kids. They seemed carefree with a loving family and a secure home. At least that's what Everybody thought. So March 17, 1977, it's St. Patrick's Day. The Boyles drive up the east coast to Anne's parents house in Cachalard. Anne's brother Jerry Gallagher was there as well. So that would have been Mary and Anne's Uncle Gallagher and his wife Eve. And they had two sons, Gregory and Gerard. Gerard. So they were all gathered to mark the death anniversary of another family member. And that's why they were all getting together for this kind of family reunion. Anne and Mary were now six years old and they were always happy to play with their cousins, and they only visited their grandparents a couple times a year. So this was kind of like a special occasion for them as kids to get together and play. The house was on a farm in a very rural area where people's homes were. Were very spread apart. Just a very outdoorsy rural area. And there were very few people living in the area. And for that reason, barely anybody even had a landline telephone in their house. So this is, like, out in the boonies. So the next day, March 18, the children spent the morning doing farm chores. By the way. Nightmare. Imagine, like, I can't imagine you're on a fun family trip with your cousins, and then you wake up at 6am to, like, shovel horses stung. And I'm like, that's not. I was gonna happen here.

[A]

And I mean this respectfully, because I know they're listening, but I feel like Allison's family would do that where it's like, we're all gonna get together and wake up at six, and it'll be fun. Yeah. We're gonna do a big family project, and it happens to be labor.

[B]

6:00Am and it happens to be hard labor for everybody.

[A]

And you know what? I will say they do find ways to make that stuff fun.

[B]

I mean, people like that need to exist, though, you know, to, like, get the world moving, moving. Like, I need people like that to keep doing it. And I. I love you for it. I just can't understand it.

[A]

I could absolutely see them having, like, a paint party and we're all gonna paint the house. It's like, wait a minute.

[B]

Like, I wish I could be that kind of person, but I never will be. I never will be my.

[A]

You know, I gotta brag on my gammy again because.

[B]

Oh, happy birthday.

[A]

Is it her birthday? Oh, no, this is the dead one, actually.

[B]

She's gonna listen.

[A]

She's.

[B]

I'm already on her hit list. Oh, God. Happy birthday. I'm a happy. You know what? Here's the thing. I forget you ever had two grandmas, so I only care about the one in Florida, Okay? And I'm saying happy birthday to that important one, my mom.

[A]

And I call her JG because it's.

[B]

Oh, jg Happy birthday. Oh, my God.

[A]

Hey, jj.

[B]

So embarrassed.

[A]

No, you're good. Well, I don't know.

[B]

Until she's mad, I'm not good. I'm not good.

[A]

You've never met, and she's only ever been mad at you. Never.

[B]

She has, like, her eyes on me. Really?

[A]

No. My gammy. The one who passed? Who has the shoe story? Yes, she was one of your grandma.

[B]

Just. Someone went, oh, yeah, that one.

[A]

Yeah, the other one. Yeah, the other one. 25 of my blood. She was one of those people where she. She came from a whole line of people that was very involved in the community and would, like, make fun events out of, like, necessary tasks in the whole neighborhood. Like, when you think about, like, oh, you want to be, like, a part of a village. She was.

[B]

Was. Oh, that's the dream.

[A]

The head villager. And so one thing they would do every year for as long as my. My parents can remember is that they would always host a steak and rake, where the entire neighborhood would get together at one neighbor's house. Everyone would rake the leaves when all the leaves came down. And so if there's like 20 people there, took five seconds. You go to the next house, next house, next house. And then whichever the last house was, was where you. Everybody raked their yards together. That guy would host, like, grilling steaks for everybody.

[B]

What the heck?

[A]

And they would have, like, a big steak. They called it a steak and rake. And they did it for years and years and years and years.

[B]

Delightful. And they could have called it a steak and shake and done milkshakes and then, honestly, no raking. Hold on. See, that's my idea. My idea is, why don't we just do steaks and milkshakes and then, you.

[A]

Know, other people do awaken, bake before the rake and steak.

[B]

Right now, I'll do it before the steak and shake. I'm not doing any raking. I'll be very clear about that up front.

[A]

But it was things like that where I feel like it'd be like, let's all do a big family chore together. But light hands, many hands, make light work. Whatever it's called. And then we'll just have a bunch of filet mignon. Hell yeah, brother.

[B]

At whose house? And then you and I will plan it so that it ends at, like, a specific house.

[A]

You know, like, I'll make the steaks, but I'm sick beforehand, and I can't actually do any of the things.

[B]

Yeah, we'll just order some doordash. But anyway.

[A]

Anyway, I'll say they were. I'll gather together to do family, to.

[B]

Do farm chores together as the cousins. And, man, that would make me mad as a kid. I really hated when we'd go somewhere and my parents were like, anyway, go off and do. Do whatever chores they need to do. And I'm like, I know it's not My house.

[A]

Yeah. And also as an adult, if I were hosting people and they were like, ask them if they need any help with anything. I'd be like, with love, get away from my space, because you don't know how things run here. Like, I'd be like, don't touch myself.

[B]

I feel like that's very kind. And no, you don't have to go shovel, like, manure. But I guess these had a different idea. And they were like, I would also.

[A]

Feel like a bad host if some. If I was like, actually, can you grab a shovel and start fucking digging?

[B]

Oh, you'd feel like a bad host. I'd feel like I'd probably committed a very felonious crime. But yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So they're doing just farm chores. And I guess they're not that upset about it. Apparently I am. I'm getting spun out about it.

[A]

There wasn't Internet or yet, so maybe they just, like, had free time. I don't know.

[B]

It didn't even have a landline. So, like, yeah, they can't even prank call the neighbors. So they're doing farm chores. It's early morning, March 18, and then the family decides to have dinner together in the early afternoon. I think this is back when you'd call it dinner. And supper was later. So Anne asked Mary, her twin sister, if she was coming along. And Mary said, where? And they said, oh, we're going outside to play. And Mary said, no, she didn't want to. She wanted to stay inside with her mom. Mom. Which I thought was very cute. Yeah. So she helped with the dishes while Anne and Patrick went outside with their cousins. And eventually, Mary did wander outside to play with her cousins. A little while later, the mom, Anne, looked outside at the children playing in the garden thicket. It was Patrick, Anne, Gregory, and Gerard. But Mary was not there. So Anne asked the kids, hey, have you seen Mary? She went out to play a little while ago. Ago. And they said, no, we haven't seen her. So her brother Jerry, Anne's brother, was fixing a stone wall nearby, and she shouted to him about Mary, but he couldn't really hear what she said. So immediately Anne goes into full panic because Mary, like I said, was not the type to go off on her own. She liked to be around her mom especially, and her family members. So she looks around the property for a few minutes, but can't find Mary anywhere. She then gets up to closer to Jerry and says, hey, have you seen Mary? And he says, no, but he jumps in his car and speeds down the Road. And Anne keeps looking. And then Mary's sister, who's probably of course startled by this, seeing her mom like in such a frenzy, sure joins in to search for her sister Mary. And Mary was so little, right? I mean she's six years old. The picture of her that they, the twins that they have is just sweet. And she has like little pigtails. I mean, she's tiny. And so now they're, they're worried like what if she got stuck somewhere? Like she couldn't have wandered too far off or like she's so little, right? What if she got, fell into something and got stuck or broke her leg? Like we don't know. So they're kind of in full panic mode. And Anne, the little one six year old Anne, grew desperate. And she makes me sad. She asked her mom to light a candle and then she started shaking holy water every, everywhere and blessing the ground and just shouting her sister's name over and over, saying like, maybe now she'll, she'll shout back, oh my gosh, terribly sad. Her father said to stop doing that or the neighbors would hear because he really didn't think it was like anything that urgent. Like he couldn't imagine in his mind anything terrible had happened. But Ann didn't care. She just got louder. She just kept trying to find her sister, sister. And meanwhile, Jerry, Anne's brother, the uncle, came back amidst this chaos. And he told everyone he'd seen Mary about half an hour ago. He said he'd borrowed a ladder from the next farm over. After dinner he walked there to return it and he saw Mary come outside and start following him. So the other house he was going to was only about 400 yards across a field between their farms. But along the way there was this flooded portion of field. And Mary was like, oh, the water's too deep. I don't want to go through, through this puddle. So at 3:30pm, she turned around to walk home and he said that was the last he had seen her.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

This was a straight route back. It should have only taken a couple minutes. And Jerry said he went on to the neighbors and stayed with them for about 30 minutes and then didn't see Mary again on his way home. So Ann, the mom, ran into the direction of the, ran toward the direction of the neighbor's house and she ran to the nearby lock or lake where she saw fishermen on a boat. And I mean, imagine this, this like thinking, oh my God, she's in the.

[A]

Water, you know, she's absolutely fallen. And like, I mean, it would be. I'd be so scared that I would convince myself. It was a gut feeling that. Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because, like, what else could have happened? You looked everywhere else. She sees fishermen on a boat. They had heard them screaming Mary's name, but they didn't know what was going on. So they see Anne now. She. She waves to them, asks if they've seen a little girl. They say they have not. And it was getting dark, Dark out. Like, this is the worst possible timing. It's getting dark, it's getting cold. And the farms there were covered in bogs. And this is like mountainous terrain. This is just like the last place you want to be out in the woods by yourself as a kid. So no one could call the police because there were no landlines around at this point. I mean, they were around, but not in their home. So one of the fishermen, PJ Coughlin, rushed to the state, the police station. There were no phones, so Anne asked them to alert the police and tell them just to come straight, straight there. So the police reached the farm at six and that was about two hours after Mary was last seen. They immediately launched an urgent search for her. But the town where, like this is just a kind of fun fact anecdote here. The town, the Bally Shannon Theater, which is the town where the. The police had come. Come from. They were putting on a festival that day. And so somebody stood on stage and read a police report or read a police appeal, I'm sorry, to ask for volunteers from to. To go join the search. So they were able to get like a big search party going because one of the actors like read or somebody went on the stage and read like an announcement. Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, though, despite all the help, Mary was not recovered that night. Night. The next day, the search was expanded and soldiers from a nearby military station called Finner Camp joined on the ground and in helicopters. Now they had hundreds of volunteers searching every barn, cabin and empty hut in the area. There were farmers who were clearing their own land to look. The days passed and nobody found any sign of Mary at all. And of course, at this point people are thinking, well, she, she probably hasn't made it, especially if she, you know, is still out there somewhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the case quickly gained national attention. The mom said she just fell into such a. A grief, a depression, she could barely get out of bed. At a press conference, she said the family had begun to suspect that Mary might have been abducted because of all this searching they were doing and not no luck. But they continued to hope that she would be recovered somehow. Right. Like they have to believe that somehow there's still hope for that. Initially a kidnapping did seem unlikely. Like I said, this was an extremely rural area and the road itself was so remote that people thought, you know, why would this. It feels like just a fluke, like that's a freak thing and it wouldn't happen out there and people would have. And if it did happen out there, people would have noticed a stranger. So car, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And by the way, what do we know nowadays about abductions? Don't get in the car. It's not all about stranger danger. It's actually most likely someone you know pretty well. But then back then it's like the 70s and they're like oh, you know, abduction, like why would somebody drive all the way out here to abduct a child without being seen? And it's like that's not actually, there's.

[A]

Probably somebody on the side other inside usually, especially if you never heard her screaming for help or anything. Not that like, but it, it's likely that she knew the person so she didn't feel scared.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean either way. Yeah, yeah, either way. Yeah. I don't want to spoil anything, but okay, you're on the right track. Yes. So divers searched lakes near the farm. Entire bogs were drained. Team search with scent dogs. And the sister was led to the very spot where her uncle said Mary had separated from her from him a family member. This is so bizarre. A family member pretended they forgot something and sent Anne to, to go fetch it from her grandparents house. And the goal was like to see how long it took a six year old to get back and like how, how well she needed to know the terrain or the route to make it back just these couple hundred yards.

[A]

I feel so bad for her that she was used in this way because I'm sure that's like its own mental load. But how lucky are they that they scientifically speaking in the world of research she looks exactly like her. So people know what to look for and she, you could test out how long it would take her to go do something and yeah, it's helpful.

[B]

Yeah, it was, yeah, it was at least interesting to see. Like you know, if she got lost then maybe they would have had the same mindset and turned the wrong way down a path or something like that. But Ann made it quickly back to the house without any issue. And they were like, okay, so that's not quite the lead. Mary who was missing was also the more confident, practical one. So they were like it just doesn't strike us that she would go off for some other reason or not know the way, way back. So the day Mary vanished she had been wearing a wool cardigan her mother had knit for her and rain boots that were a little too big for her. She also had this ribbon in her hair that her mom had added to her hairstyle that morning. And her sister Anne and her uncle Jerry both said she had been carrying a bag of potato chips when she was last seen. And her family believed that if she, if they believe she may have been abducted, but they believe that if she hadn't been abducted, abducted if she did fall into a bog hole, that something of hers would have been recovered. A ribbon from her hair, a. Like a thread of the cardigan being caught in a branch. You know, it just seems so strange that like, or a shoe falling off if you fell or got hurt.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

It just feels unlikely that like footprints in a bog.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Anything that sounds like a raffy. Raffy song.

[A]

Footprints in a box.

[B]

A pollywog in a box. Okay, sorry. Yeah. So she has this cardigan knit by her mother. It just seems strange that like nothing like the boot, the potato chips hadn't been found, the Abu hadn't been found. Like nothing, nothing had been found. Not even with search dogs, right? Like they didn't even find the fucking potato chips. Like that. Tell me something.

[A]

I actually was going to say that earlier and I didn't, I don't know, I don't want to make too much light of that, but I, if I told Hank to go find a bag of potato chips, I think I'm on Saturn.

[B]

Like, like if you're going to find a scent of a little girl, you'd think the scent on the potato bag chip would pretty distinct, right? Or like it just. Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. They did searches for about a month with soldiers, police, volunteers, dogs and nothing, not a single shred of evidence. They found their mom and said that going home without Mary was a shocking experience because remember they were at their grandparents house, they were at Anne's parents house. So they weren't even at home. So now they had to travel back home. Home with just one daughter, with just one of the twins. I mean that's just a nightmare. Throughout the entire search and the, the kid's father Charlie believed they would still find Mary. He really held hope for a long time. He couldn't speak about her. He was just like very deeply traumatized, you know. And one of the things his wife said was we Just there was no resource. Like, you didn't have a therapist. You. You didn't like, what are you gonna do? You don't know how to talk about these things. So, like, why would you. It's just painful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I thought that was a fair point because we look back going like, somebody get these people help. But it's like, what help? You know, I mean, even to this day, like, it's hard to find help. So it's just really sad. And the sister, of course, is also going through her own version of a nightmare because she's like missing her sister and a part of her herself, essentially. And she, she said it was torture. She became fearful. She became really attached to her parents. She became afraid she would disappear. I mean, it's just terrible.

[A]

Yeah. I can't imagine being a six year old thinking she got taken. I can get taken too.

[B]

Yeah. And like, where is she hurting? Like, where.

[A]

Oh my God, she's got a delivery person. Oh my God, Pete. Every time, every time, every time. I'm so sorry.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

As I'm telling you, like, someone's gonna take me. And then a grown man was like, right here.

[B]

You're like, you're like, he's gonna manifesting.

[A]

No, but I would be worried. I mean, she was already. You've mentioned this already, but she, she was so scared of even leaving her mom's side. Like, imagine now, like there's. There's no bitten leaving your mom's side. I would tape myself.

[B]

Well, the. Well, the other sister was the one afraid of leaving her mom.

[A]

Oh, really? Well, then this is probably like, I get it now.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. She almost got like fearful because of it. Like she hadn't really been in that headspace. And then her sister disappeared and she was like, I. Like she became as kind of attached as her sister had been. Yeah, understandably. Yeah. And this picture is sad too. There's a picture of her at her first holy communion. And that was shortly after her sister's disappearance. So she had to go do that alone. Alone. The priest actually postponed the ceremony for as long as he could, hoping that her twin would. Would be home in time. But eventually they just had to do the first communion. Charlie, the dad broke down in the chapel. This is like where he really had his first kind of overwhelm breakdown. Just seeing like, his daughter go through this, what was to them very important ritual and like stayed of growing up that the other sister just had been like, plucked out of, you know, the scene. But as years passed, Anne sort of started to feel like her sister was never coming home. And she said that was really an adjustment because she told herself from little on that her sister would come back someday. And Perhaps on their 18th birthday, for example, perhaps on our 21st, she'll finally show up, you know, just like all these potential. And after their 21st birthday passed, Ann said, okay, I think, like, if she's not around for this birthday and, like, she couldn't find her way back, then she's. There's no way she's coming back.

[A]

I can't imagine holding out hope for that many years and just at some point, having to just throw your hands up.

[B]

And it's so sad, too. Exactly. Because she said she remembered that day so vividly, the day that her sister disappeared. And she said she couldn't believe she was not the one to walk her to the neighbor's farm, because she said, we were always together. Like, these few minutes we weren't together, like, and it just. Something terrible happened. So decades passed. Police occasionally open new inquiries. But again and again, you know, the family was crushed when nothing came from anything. There were tips from all over the uk. There were tips from parts of Ireland. There were. Were tips that, like, maybe she'd ended up in Scotland or, you know, just. And the family followed through on all these leads. They would go to these places. They would. They would try every angle, but every lead ended up nowhere. So when Anne got older, the twin Anne, she started to realize, like, when she was a kid and her sister had vanished, and then she had to travel home from her grandparents, it seems. Seemed like her sister could be anywhere in the world, like, out there in this vast place. But as she got older and kind of understood more of the world, she realized actually the place where she could have ended up is a lot smaller. You know, the. The odds of her ending up somewhere, like, in Panama or like, some random place in the world are much slimmer than where she probably. Like, the actual radius of where she probably ended up, especially if she had been killed that. That day. And so she started to realize, like, maybe she was never lost at all. Maybe she was abducted. And a detective sergeant on Mary's case called Aiden Murray interviewed a man that he actually wanted to arrest. And he said, he claims that if he had gotten another hour with him, he would have gotten the guy to confess. But I don't. I don't know what that means. I don't know, like, the context of that. I don't know how true that is. But either way, he believed this man was on the verge of confessing to taking Mary, but he didn't have enough evidence to hold him, so they were forced to release him. And then this caused an extreme controversy later on on down the line when rumors started spreading among detectives that a politician had called the police station and demanded to let this individual free and to not bother this individual. And Detective Murray heard these rumors, but he could never corroborate it or prove it. So basically with the, with the kind of getting this guy off the hook, rumor started that this is a cover up, essentially that somebody was brought in. And then a politician called the police said, you have to let this person go. Don't question him anymore. And the police said, alrighty, we'll cover it up. And that is the, that is the controversy. See that? That's spawned by this.

[A]

Someone's getting. We don't. You don't want to find out the secrets or. We don't want the secret out or whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We don't want this person to be involved, even though they were, you know, so. A man named Robert Black was also considered a person of interest for a long time. He was a Scottish serial killer who kidnapped, raped and murdered multiple young Girls in the UK in the early 1980s. He spent time in Donegal. So many people believed he had kidnapped and killed Mary. And besides that, in a 1999 article, writer Bridget McLaughlin reported that in 1978, Robert Black was at a pub in Donegal and overheard a woman talking about Mary's disappearance. And he asked them to show him the family's house. This is the story in the article.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The serial killer was apparently in a publisher and said, can you guys show me Mary's house? And he specifically asked to see Mary's twin sister and where she lived.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so this woman was like, what the fuck, dude? And assuming he just had like some macabre fascination with.

[A]

I would assume that, yeah, this dark story.

[B]

She just refused and was like, what the hell? And apparently he got like enraged, like he was pissed off. And this is like something he really wanted to do. Yep. And so that was alarming. Despite Robert Black's crimes against children and his presence in Donegal around the same years that the lived there and his.

[A]

Weird ass, Weird interest in this, like, I want to see the site again where I did this or whatever, or.

[B]

Where someone did this even. You know, it's just bizarre. Although that's not even the site because. Because they lived in Donegal, but the, the crime happened in a different part of the country because they were traveling to see the grandparents so this would have just been, like, where she lived, like, as a kid, which is just so weird. So in any case, he was just a creeper either way. And because despite his crimes against children and his personality presence in, like, he could. Because he was a such a sicko, like, he could have really had a fascination and wanted to see the twin sister, you know? And, like, who knows what the.

[A]

And is he. He's talking to her, like, to.

[B]

Oh, no, he's talking to. Apparently it was. He overheard somebody in the pub talking about Mary's death and said, can you show me where. Okay, her house is? I want to see her twin sister.

[A]

Because I could. I mean, I'm not trying to. Gonna make total defenses for this guy, but as two people who have a morbid show and people who listen, I'm sure have a morbid fascination. Like, and we literally wrote books about all the morbid places you can go. Like, I'm. I could see him just taking it way too far.

[B]

But, like, also, he had murdered several children.

[A]

So it's like, oh, yes, I forgot about that.

[B]

He's a serial killer. So it's also like. Never mind that on top of your.

[A]

Right, I see it. Corrected. I'm corrected. That was never right. I totally forgot about that for a second.

[B]

I was like, when do I cut in?

[A]

You did a great job cutting.

[B]

Sorry I didn't cut in soon enough, probably.

[A]

But okay, that aside, if we weren't thinking about that, I could see someone being like, can I see it? Like, I know it's fucked up, but can I see it? Yeah, and you're totally right. That.

[B]

And it's also the fact that, like, they were like, no, and he got pissed off. It's like, okay, you're being a fucking weirdo creep. And also, it had happened like, a year earlier. It wasn't like. Like, this is like, it was forever, and it was like a historic site. Like, the little girl still lived there, you know? Like, I don't think any of our listeners are like, us, which I feel like you're decades later, maybe, or, like, years later, but not like, where does the sister live now? I want to see her.

[A]

Yeah, I want to look in the window. Yeah. Something creepy. But also, you know what? Even if he didn't take the first one, he might think I'll get the second.

[B]

Well, that's, you know. Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to hint at it. Like, even if he wasn't involved, he probably had some nefarious idea in his head or.

[A]

Oh, I see. Yeah. No, at first I was just thinking he just wants to see it to like weirdly feel like the energy space or something, but.

[B]

Or he wants to get involved. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But either way, thank God she was like, hell no. And despite all this, investigators did eventually determine he was not in the area area the day Mary disappeared. And he was dismissed as a person of interest.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Then. In 2014, a 64 year old man was arrested as a suspect in Mary's disappearance. Anne actually knew the man as a child. She was a few years older than him. He was a soldier at Finner camp when Mary disappeared. And at the time of his arrest, he had been previously convicted of child sexual abuse charges. Detectives were hopeful that the arrest would lead to discovering what happened to Mary. Mary, maybe even leading to her remains. But the suspect was released soon afterward with no new answers and just more pain for the family who had their hopes up again.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

For several years. Anne and. Anne and senior and Junior and.

[A]

Sorry, I wanna. I know this has nothing to do with anything, but it's in my brain now and I just kind of want to word vomit that. So you were saying. Why would they just pick Mary when they got an Ann? And. And Anne isn't the dad. Jerry?

[B]

No, the uncle.

[A]

Oh, I was gonna say. Well, one got a rhyme?

[B]

No. Charlie.

[A]

Okay, I'm back to not understanding.

[B]

I know. Well, Charlie, Patrick and Mary are all very Irish names. I feel so sure. It feels like maybe they were just family names.

[A]

Sorry, I did not mean to take us out of the.

[B]

No, no. I mean, it's a fair. I was hoping somebody would solve the mystery, but not me.

[A]

By the way. I meant I'm not solving it. Not. I don't know.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

God, we are. Really? How many feet can we put in our mouths?

[B]

Jesus Christ. I already swung one across the screen earlier. This is a mess. Don't worry, I'm here to remind you. Okay, so for several years, the mom, Anne and Mary's sister Anne were not on speaking terms, which is pretty devastating. But you can imagine this would have had like quite a dramatic effect on the dynamics of the family. The sister, and with the support of her cousin Margot, had remained a staunch advocate for her sister. She would lead protests and marches demanding more reviews of Mary's case. And in 2013, she filed a complaint against the police for potentially ruining a dig for Mary's remains. An investigative report on Mary's disappearance claimed that just days after Mary vanished, a witness reported a site where hair and clothes appeared to be protruding from a fresh air mound of dirt.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

According to the report, the police never investigated the site. And so Anne freaked out and was.

[A]

Yeah, you had a lead and didn't do anything.

[B]

The reporter worked with Scantech Geoscience to survey the location, and they reportedly detected a possible burial at the site. And when this was published in 2013, the police agreed to excavate the site to search for possible remains. Remains. They did this. They needed to do a very painstaking and meticulous excavation because forensic dig protocols are such that, like, after decades and decades of someone being dead, that this could be a very fragile. They needed to do a very, like, painstaking, meticulous dig to make sure they didn't damage any evidence, that kind of thing.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Instead, the police used heavy machinery and just like, fucking blasted through the ground and destroyed any possible evidence of Mary.

[A]

So sick.

[B]

That's great. So Anne launched an official complaint and an investigation was open to review the excavation. She also requested a coroner's inquest to declare Mary officially deceased, which normally would be unusual without a body, but not unheard of.

[A]

It was like, so. But this. I'm so obvious. It's like, hello, Peace. It's over. Like, let's do something.

[B]

It's over. And Anne, the mom, though, had to approve the corner inquest and she refused. And so that's where this. This rift kind of gotcha.

[A]

I mean, I. I get it. It's like, she's like, I just want to. There's still hope. Maybe. Maybe she's out there. I don't know.

[B]

So, yeah. Her husband, Mary's father, had actually died in 2005 in a fishing accident. And Anne said Charlie never wanted this inquest done because he just had maintained hope that she was alive for so long that when he died, like, accidentally and. And like, unexpectedly, she felt this urge to, like, carry this on, and she felt like she couldn't sign it because she knew her husband wouldn't have wanted it. So Anne, the sister, says in interviews now that she is confident actually that she knows the identity of Mary's killer. And she believes that Mary was dead by the end of the day on March 8th 18th, 1977.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She believes. And this is her identical twin sister. So you guys, tell me what you think.

[A]

Twins weigh in.

[B]

This is twins weigh in. There you go. She believes that Mary was the victim of sexual abuse and that she was murdered because the abuser believed she was going to report him.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Other families have directly accused Mary's Uncle Jerry of murdering Mary. Mary that day in 1977. Does.

[A]

Does Ann think this too?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

In 2023, Jerry died, and Anne spoke to a reporter at the Sunday Independent, saying she hoped that this death might lead to some answers. She said, I just hope that maybe there are others who might have been told something who might now speak out after the death of my uncle.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Anne had said in multiple interviews, she's not looking for justice or an arrest. She said, all we want is to find where my sister was, was left to give her some dignity and lay her to rest with a decent burial somewhere we can go visit. Everyone deserves that, to have a grave. Anne says she's just been tortured by this mystery and not having answers. And she hopes someone will make an anonymous report that they can just finally end her misery and. And find her sister's body. The controversies have continued to cause rifts among Mary's family and people who investigate the the case. There were even lawsuits raised against documentary filmmakers. Politicians have been accused of interfering, and they have vehemently denied any involvement. And the mom has received letters with accusations who of people who think she had something to do with her daughter's murder. And it's just really a painful thing for everybody in the family to keep reliving. She often thinks back to the day she lost her daughter. Before dinner, Mary ran to her and said, mom, I forgot to kiss you this morning. And she wrapped her arms around her and gave her a kiss on the face. And she says that's what she thinks of. I know, I know. Yeah. So it's been 48 years as of this recording. I believe so. And we're in 2025. They all just hope to find answers someday. I mean, the sister Anne said, in my head, I'm always talking to Mary Mary, and if I'm in trouble, I'm asking her for help. I always believe that she's looking out for me. So, yeah, anything anybody has an inkling or any idea, even if it seems insignificant, they ask you to contact the authorities. Mary Boyle's disappearance remains the longest open missing child case in Ireland. And if you want more information, you could can go to facebook.com justice for Mary Boyle.

[A]

Wow. Wow.

[B]

And yeah, so happy Halloween. Life is scary.

[A]

And that's why we drink.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Good story. Although mad, there's no results, but I guess.

[B]

I know, I know. I hope. I can only hope so. He died in 2023, so maybe it.

[A]

Still sounds like it's kind of actively.

[B]

Ongoing, so things are still getting movement. I guess so. The fact that, like Multiple people think Jerry was sexually abusing her to begin with is already just.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the fact that he said, okay, remember the beginning? Which I meant to harp on later. I'll harp on it now. When Anne told her brother, like, oh, have you seen him? And he's like, I can't hear you. And then she went up to him again and said, have you seen her? And then he said, no, and jumped in his car and drove away. Away.

[A]

Yeah. Like, he, like, didn't want to even be on.

[B]

Well, they thought, like, maybe he's looking for her or something. But then he came back and he said, oh, the last time I saw her was half an hour ago when I was walking to the neighbor's house. And, like, why wouldn't you say that? When she said, have you seen her? I saw her half hour ago. She was following me to the other house. Maybe she's over there.

[A]

You know, maybe he. That was true. And he saw her half an hour ago and that's when he snatched her up.

[B]

Exactly. It's just a weird way to, like, drive away and then not tell them until you come back later and say, oh, I did see her earlier. It's just weird.

[A]

Anyway, I would be. There's no way to know this now because it sounds like there was any documentation of it, but I'd be curious to see if he. If everyone was so freaked out about her missing that they maybe overlooked any details of, like, how he looked. Like, did he look disheveled or dirty or bloody? Or did he just kind of pound her somewhere until later?

[B]

Right. And back then, like, there was no understanding. Understanding of DNA evidence. So it's sort of like there wasn't much.

[A]

Nothing infuriates me more than what we don't know will be great evidence in the future, because I'm like, what are we just totally discarding that we.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's like that John Mulaney bit of like, oh, a bunch of blood. Yuck. Swipe it up like, yeah, yuck.

[B]

Get that out of here. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like, what the hell are we. Just like, a bunch of blood.

[B]

Yuck.

[A]

It's like, now, back to my hunch.

[B]

Such a good line. Yeah, it's exactly that. It's like, how are you supposed to know what you don't know? And then. Yeah, to have just all these, like, to have a clue, like, oh, there was a hint of fabric coming out of some fresh dirt. And then the police are like, oops, we smashed it.

[A]

Like, what the. I mean, were people like, Fired for that. Like, was there. There had to be.

[B]

They said that they were doing an inquest into it or doing a. Doing a. An investigation into. To the excavation, which. Whatever that means. But, like, again, imagine if there. If there was some cover up. If there was involvement, then, like, why would. In what. It does not behoove them to get involved. But also that's just a rumor, so, you know, who knows?

[A]

Wow. Anyway, well, good job, Christine. And would you like to end on a highlight and describe to everybody what's going on with your shirt here?

[B]

Oh, yes. Leona made me this. Well, we made tie dye recently, and it was really messy. I mean, like, obviously it was really messy, but it was so much messier than I thought because I really did prepare. I put like, trash bags over the outside tables. We did it on the porch. I put on aprons.

[A]

Is it because she's a kid? Is that what makes it messy? Like, I think it's because of me.

[B]

And because she's like me and so.

[A]

It'S like two crystal scenes together.

[B]

Yes, yes. It's. It's like we can both be as careful as we can, and then one of us will elbow an open bottle of tie dye and it'll just stain the porch.

[A]

Well, I. I hope that didn't sound like I was accused.

[B]

No, you're 100% right to ask because.

[A]

I was just in Philly a week ago now, I guess, and my. One of our friends that I was hanging out with, she was like, oh, we should all carve pumpkins together. And I was prepared. Like, I wore, like, a shirt that I was down to get messy. And, like. Because I remember just being disgusting. Like, just like a. Oh, it's gnarly. Sl. Nasty party. And I remember just always being so gross. But I also haven't done it since I was a kid. And then all of a sudden, it was just 430 year olds in a room. And I was like, is this, like, weirdly clean? And, like, not a problem for anybody. Like, we. I just would scoop it out and put it in the bowl and scoop it out.

[B]

You know, I'm still, like, doing this right with the strings.

[A]

We did the thing where we put, like, trash bags out and, like, we were like, we didn't even need these trash. Like, it was totally clean and fine. And within like 15 minutes, we had done all the gross scooping and then we were just like, carving. And it wasn't even, like little bits of pumpkin everywhere. Like, we carved, like, big pieces and then just put them in the trash. And I was like, has it always been this easy? We were just children and that's why it was so messy. I just couldn't.

[B]

No, I've done it recently and it was still as messy. So I think it's just the messes in the eye of the pumpkin holder, you know.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It's kind of like that one time we had a conversation where you were like how do you wash your face without water like running down your elbows? And I was like.

[B]

And then like literally we started some sort of culture war within our own group, like community. People to this day are like, do you still not know how to wash your face? And I'm like, God, yes.

[A]

I don't know. I have no clue.

[B]

No. I bought those wrist things everyone told me about.

[A]

I think I honestly, I think it's the placement of the hands. Like I think it's just like. Or how, where, which do you bring your hands to your face or your face to your hands? If you bring your face to your flat hands then it doesn't happen. But if you bring your wet.

[B]

Tried everything.

[A]

I don't believe you. I want to see.

[B]

I told you. I'm going to show you because I feel like cuz it does happen to.

[A]

Me if I like. If I'm washing my hands and I'm going to wash my face and then this. Yeah. Water rolls down. But if I keep my hands here and I bring my face to it.

[B]

Can'T just keep going down. That's exactly my. That sounds painful.

[A]

Like no, like you bend your face into the sink where your hands are like.

[B]

But like the whole time I'm washing my face and stuff.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, you like do this whole situation.

[B]

Yeah. Because I have to get makeup off and like, you know all that shit. And then it's like you. And then there's just like black mascara then you have to like wash more.

[A]

Of it and it's like just male slash mask privilege that we don't.

[B]

Oh yeah. I feel like if it were just a one and done I could just like go but.

[A]

Because all I ever do is I slap some soap on and I just go. And then like five seconds later my face is clean.

[B]

Yeah, I wouldn't know about that.

[A]

Yeah. I think it's just being a woman. Society sucks. I think that's what it is.

[B]

Yeah. Pain. Thank you. I said that recently and I kept saying pain is beauty. My brother's like. My brother was like, I don't think that's how that goes.

[A]

And I tortured artist Are you Ed Brown? That's what he said.

[B]

He's like, you sound like, sadomasochist. I was like, I don't know anymore. More. But yeah. So that's all I've got for you. But, yes. Oh, yeah. This is my type. But, like, for how messy it was, it's. It looks very minimal.

[A]

It all looks great.

[B]

But she did, like, she has blaze in her, where she's like, I'll pick three colors for each person's shirt. And I'm like, let's do all the colors on all the shirts. And she's like, no, that. Because then it turns brown.

[A]

Is there a reason she picked green, orange, and I guess red, purple, I think. Oh, she. Oh. Did blaze get the complementary or the primary colors?

[B]

He got secondary. The two of them got the best colors.

[A]

What'd they get?

[B]

I don't know. But she decided they were the best ones. And so she.

[A]

And she said, and, mom, you can have the ugliest.

[B]

Yeah, you can have the remaining.

[A]

And I, being a mom, the thankless job. Here's your ugly shirt. Yeah. At least you're part of it.

[B]

Here it is. And I was like, well, now I have to clean ink off of my hands for the next week of my life. But, like, those gloves are so uncomfortable.

[A]

They suck. And your hands get, like, weird and hot.

[B]

By the way, it was like July, so. So, like, mosquitoes. I mean, it was just so rough. I was like, I think Leona. I felt thankful that I got it out of my. Out of her system.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And my system.

[A]

It's never left my system to this day. If I get bored, I want to tie, dye something.

[B]

I know. And you are much more equipped for something like this if you can do a pumpkin without, like, creating a serious problem. I did throw my pants away. Like, it was bad. And she had a brand new shirt on, and she was wearing an apron. But I had to, like, throw out our clothes. They were just completely destroyed.

[A]

I really think it was just that I was the only. I don't know. I. Maybe I was just on my best behavior because I was with a bunch of type A people. But, like, we literally all just scooped it out and then.

[B]

What design did you make?

[A]

I made a Pokeball.

[B]

Cute. Did you buy one, like a printout or did you.

[A]

No, I just saw a picture, and.

[B]

It'S kind of nice.

[A]

But the one of us, like, volunteered, like, oh, once we put all of the scoops, all the goods bush into a. Into a bowl, I'm gonna. I already finished my pumpkin so I'm just gonna pick out all the seeds. And then while we were carving, she, like, roasted the seeds and by something worked on. All the seeds were done, and everything was clean. I was like, are we in a, like, better Home and Gardens magazine?

[B]

Seriously, you're the COVID of it.

[A]

It was going way too well.

[B]

Like, holy, those Halloween parties they put on magazines. They're like, easy, easy crafts. And it's like, my life.

[A]

And it never occurred to me to roast the pumpkin. See, first of all, I don't like pumpkin. But second of all, I was like, that feels like its own whole ass task. But she did it in, like, five seconds.

[B]

I'm like, because they're already, like, kind of wet, so you just, like, put, like, salt on them and stick them right in the oven.

[A]

I was like, how did. How did everything happen so efficiently? I was like, within a simmer pot going, yeah, within an, like, cider. And I was like, within an hour, everything had been prepped, done, and cleaned. And I'm like, this feels impossible. I could never do this on my own. It's Taipei. People are incredible.

[B]

They are props to all of you because we're just over here. Making up ideas is, like, what we talked about in the intermission.

[A]

Allison is very type A, and she was currently doing a project for us that's very type A and requires me to just pat her on the back and say, thank you for helping for doing all this, because I certainly can't.

[B]

I live in a house with zero type A people, except Leona. So I'm counting down the days till she turns, like, 14 or something, can answer the phone or do something useful for me.

[A]

Well, I was telling Allison, I was like, I feel like sometimes I'm just like the heart planet here on Captain Planet's team, because it's like, because you're doing, like, really hard, important things that require hours of, like, brain power. And sometimes I'm like, I'll help too. And everyone's like, oh, you could tell a joke and keep me entertained while this goes on.

[B]

Yeah, you keep. Keep the. Keep the tea coming.

[A]

Like, I. I know I joke about being a personality hire, but sometimes when I realize what she's capable of and my brain could never do, I'm like, I really am just here to make you laugh while you work.

[B]

Yeah, but, like, you work because, you know, I mean, it's.

[A]

We balance each other out very well. But it was one of those things where I was like, I feel really guilty. I'm not contributing. But I also. The. It would be better for everybody if I leave it in your hands and just tell you how great you are. That's. That's as good as we're gonna get anyway. Wow. Look, Allison, I complimented you twice in this episode. You're so lucky.

[B]

Wow. Good. Good for you. Now you. Your turn.

[A]

Your turn. Twice. Thank you. Love you.

[B]

And that's why we drink. I love you too.

[A]

Alpal this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's Cybersecurity awareness month and Lifelock has tips to protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, report phishing and update the software on your devices. And for comprehensive identity protection, let Lifelock alert you to suspicious user uses of your personal information. Lifelock also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, safe and protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] podcast terms apply.