E475 Adventures in Lunacy and Birthday Butterfly Effects

Summary

Podcast Summary

And That's Why We Drink

Episode 475: Adventures in Lunacy and Birthday Butterfly Effects

Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Date: March 22, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode is a delightful mix of personal stories, humorous banter, a deep dive into both paranormal and true crime topics, and their signature blend of murder and the supernatural. Christine shares unexpected healing moments from a Disney World trip, while Em takes listeners on a wild ride through the origins of "Ghost Adventures" and an infamous casino bombing. The overarching theme: life's unpredictability and the butterfly effect of small events sparking big outcomes.

---

Main Segments & Timestamps

1. Personal Updates & Comedy Tangents (03:02–11:53)

• Stats on a Flamingo Scroll: Christine and Em riff on reinventing baby announcement yard signs for adults, turning silly hypothetical questions about self-description into clever social commentary on boundaries (“I feel like the stats need to maybe be a little more threatening, maybe, or, like, a little more grandiose rather than, like, invitational.” – Christine, 08:39).
• Therapy Talk: Christine shares her journey with OCD and mental health advocacy (01:07–02:02).

2. Disney World & Reparenting (11:53–29:09)

• Christine’s Disney Trip & Healing (11:53–29:09)
  • Christine reflects on revisiting Disney World as an adult with her daughter, Leona, and the uncanny synchronicity that Leona was the exact same age (to the day) as Christine during her only previous trip.
  • Emotional “butterfly effect” moment: “...this, like, weird, nagging thought. I put my phone down, and I was like, check Leona’s age to the day. ... It was Wednesday when we were at Disney World.” (15:12–15:17)
  • Discussion of what it means to heal childhood wounds, “I think I was reparenting myself in the process, but it was a very lovely time.” (26:14)
  • Touching encounters with listeners and Disney cast members (esp. “Katie” on Runaway Railroad; 21:06–22:57).

Notable Quote

• “I feel like I am really growing a lot as a person and just saying, you know what? I’m just gonna go with the flow and hey, I fucking love Disney now.” – Christine (24:27)

3. Spooky Storytime: The Birth of Ghost Adventures (34:02–72:35)

Topic: The Goldfield Hotel, Part II & the Original 2004 Ghost Adventures Documentary

Paranormal History (34:02–47:11)

• Recap of the Goldfield Hotel legend (35:00–36:06): The notorious haunting and murder tied to chained Elizabeth.
• Introduction to the first "Ghost Adventures" documentary (36:28): “2004, a spring chicken of a 27 year old man ... He was 27. I think he had frosted tips." – Em (39:45–39:53).

The Documentary Deep Dive (47:12–63:14)

• The show’s roots: just Zach Baggins and Nick Groff, Aaron left before the key moments (47:11–48:27).
• Famous opening monologue: Ralph Waldo Emerson quote + "And I’ll prove it.” (41:32–42:11).
• Zach’s first paranormal encounter: haunted by a woman’s voice and appearance in his apartment (45:06–46:14).
• The breakthrough: Levitation and Possession during the investigation. First documented alleged brick-throwing by a ghost, and a caretaker's strange behavior ("possessed?").
  • “A brick literally levitates like, a foot off the ground and then flies at them.” – (57:26–58:00)
  • [Link to documentary segment with the flying brick at 56:26 in transcript]
• Authenticity debates over the footage and experts' conclusions.
• Iconic Zach reaction: “Okay, we hear you. ... And we don’t think you’re very nice, but—but we have no fear of you.” (54:59)
• The legacy: Spawned an entire series, inspired a generation of ghost hunting, and led to future investigations.

Notable Quotes

• “He just looks like a guy that came out of a Walgreens.” – Em on young Zach Baggins (40:15)
• “You want to just jump off a bridge? Don’t you want to—” – Christine (42:11, on Zach’s dramatic opening)

Butterfly Effect Tangent (67:17–72:27)

• Details how the Goldfield haunting connected Zach with the Constantinos (paranormal investigators later involved in true crime tragedy).
• Notable EVP in the documentary: “Thank you, but we’ve done it.” (69:23)

---

4. True Crime Spotlight: The Harvey’s Casino Bombing (76:23–122:27)

Storyteller: Christine

Major Plot Points

• The Setup: In 1980, a sophisticated bomb is planted in Harvey’s Resort Hotel in Lake Tahoe by a group of men, including abusive “mastermind” and gambling addict John Burgess Sr.
• The Device: Disguised as a copier and rigged with multiple anti-tamper features—so sensitive it could explode from less than a degree of tilt.
  • Christine on the absurd engineering: “He’s, like, a mastermind engineer. Let’s just give him that one credit. That one singular credit. He’s also a Nazi, but, you know.” (97:18)
• The Ransom: $3 million demanded, with convoluted instructions for a helicopter drop.
• The Public’s Reaction: Casino guests and locals evacuated; street turns into a carnival with T-shirt souvenirs sold.
  • T-shirts: “I got bombed at Lake Tahoe,” “I had a dynamite time at Lake Tahoe,” “I survived the bomb—Lake Tahoe, August 1980.”
• The Blast: Attempted police detonation fails; the bomb explodes, causing $18 million in damage but miraculously no deaths.
• Investigation: A local motel owner’s good memory and a series of blunders (tool marks, a speeding ticket, and an ex-girlfriend’s tip) crack the case.
• Aftermath: Burgess Sr. convicted and sentenced to life in prison; died in 1996.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “He literally cross examined his own sons in court. That’s fucking low.” – Christine (119:16)
• “We used to be a proper country when ... all the journalists were like ...and then this happened and this and this and this. ... Now there’s just not enough time to report the fun stuff.” – Em laments the loss of fun details in today’s news (107:55)
• “I had to go find about Ricky and ... the journalist wrote about it that day. ... The Internet’s like, and it was this type of bomb with this many screws. ... but I also want to know the T-shirt...souvenirs.” – Christine (106:13)

---

5. Lighthearted Closers & Listener Goodies (123:01–End)

• Trauma-bonding over graphic TV episodes and the generational “oh, no” reflex (123:01–123:44).
• Restaurant and amusement park nostalgia (Rainforest Cafe, Olive Garden, Kings Island ride auctions, Rainforest Cafe River Adventure details at 126:03–131:03).
• “If anybody can handle that for me, that would be super great.” – Em, asking for custom merch after discovering no Rainforest Cafe water ride tees exist (130:55).
• Friendly signoff and reminders about upcoming Friday the 13th. (133:28–133:34)

---

Memorable Quotes

• “The butterfly effect is crazy.” – Em (39:36)
• “I think I was reparenting myself in the process, but it was a very lovely time.” – Christine (26:14)
• “He just looks like a guy that came out of a Walgreens.” – Em, on young Zach (40:15)
• “A brick literally levitates like, a foot off the ground and then flies at them.” – Em (57:26)
• “I had a dynamite time at Lake Tahoe.” – Christine, on T-shirt slogans (104:40)
• “You have a Cricut machine and an Etsy account. I don’t know what we’re doing here.” – Christine (127:25)

---

Episode Vibe & Tone

• Conversational, irreverent, and warm—the hosts freely riff on absurdities, commiserate over parental and adulting anxieties, and maintain humor even through the darkest material.
• Deeply personal, especially in Christine's Disney anecdotes and the discussion of family history, reparenting, and the synchronicities of life.
• Nostalgic for 80s/90s pop culture, amusement parks, and old-school true crime reporting.
• Occasionally nerdy and affectionately teasing of the paranormal world.
• Listener-driven, with call-outs to fans, shared inside jokes, and humility about the podcast’s growth and community.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:02 | Adult "baby shower" and stork signs bit, self-description stats | | 11:53 | Disney trip, healing moment, butterfly effect | | 20:35 | Mickey’s Runaway Railroad, magical listener encounter | | 34:02 | Transition to Goldfield Hotel recap, Ghost Adventures origin story | | 45:06 | Zach’s first haunting experience | | 56:26 | The famous flying brick scene (documentary linked in show notes) | | 69:23 | Notable EVP: “Thank you, but we’ve done it.” | | 76:23 | Harvey’s Casino bombing story begins | | 104:40 | Notable T-shirt souvenirs on bomb site | | 122:27 | End of casino bombing story, legal fallout | | 126:03 | Rainforest Cafe River Adventure & merch tangent | | 130:55 | Em requests fan-made River Adventure t-shirt | | 133:28 | Episode sign-off |

---

For New Listeners

Why you’d drink this week: For the hilarious takes on adult life, healing childhood wounds at Disney, getting spooked by nostalgic paranormal TV, and just trying to survive the absurdities of modern adulthood—with a big, weird, sometimes heartwarming community of listeners by your side.

---

Note: Ads, sponsor messages, and general intros/outros are omitted from this summary as per guidelines.

Transcript

[Christine]

Get in the game with the college branded Venmo Debit card. Wreck your team with every tap and earn up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo. No monthly fee, no minimum balance, just school pride and spending power. Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo debit [e-mail] collegecard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. select schools available. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at Venmo me stash terms max $100 cash back per month.

[M]

Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney. Let's go get ready for a new case.

[Christine]

We're the greatest partners of all time.

[M]

New friends Gaily Desnake and your last name the Snake Dream Team.

[Christine]

New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population.

[M]

You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. Zootopia 2 now available on Disney. Rated PG. And right now you can get Disney plus and Hulu for just $4.99 a month for three months with a special limited time offer. Ends March 24th. After three months, Plan Auto renews at 1299amonth, terms apply. You've got woes, Christine.

[Christine]

Oh, I got woes aplenty. You want some?

[M]

I would love one. Please tell I'm sure you don't regale us.

[Christine]

I'm sure you don't have enough. We've all got woes, right folks? But some of us have woes that we didn't even realize. And one of my woes was ocd. And I was very lucky because the only reason I realized this was going to a therapist who specialized in OCD and went girl, what do you mean you tap the inside of your drawer three times every time you close it. That's besides the point. We're just really happy that NOCD is a sponsor. And when we started this podcast and I was talk about the woes, I was in the throes of OCD and trying to figure out how to manage it. I never thought we'd have no CD as a sponsor someday.

[M]

Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. But OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called ERP, or Exposure and Response Prevention. And with NOCD you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in ocd. So no CD therapists are highly trained but and they really understand OCD and won't Judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. And their therapy is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans.

[Christine]

I mean, use it. Hell yeah. If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. That's nocd.com to schedule a free call and learn more.

[M]

Can you imagine if we threw a baby shower for a 40 year old woman and a tag zip recruiter without

[Christine]

like getting her permission or like any sort. Of any sort. By the way, a childfree lesbian woman. Like someone who's like, not even in

[M]

be very funny.

[Christine]

Oh, I think it's a good idea. I think it's.

[M]

I literally actually want to do it so bad.

[Christine]

We can. We can have parapods host it.

[M]

That's what I literally. That could be our first, like, big networking event.

[Christine]

Like a retreat.

[M]

A little baby.

[Christine]

We should do a retreat and then surprise her with the baby shower part.

[M]

You know what? I never had a stork themed baby shower. We can make that happen for all of us.

[Christine]

Did people ever have that?

[M]

No. But I feel like at a lot of 90s, they had the big stork

[Christine]

though, as like the imagery or they

[M]

had like the wooden one outside the

[Christine]

door or like a gigantic wooden one.

[M]

What is with that? It had like all the stats of the baby.

[Christine]

So weird.

[M]

I would like to have a big wooden bird in my yard that tells all my stats right now.

[Christine]

Would you?

[M]

Maybe I'll just get like one of those plastic flamingos and a scroll and I'll just tape it in right now.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

It'll just say like 6ft tall. I'm all right. I like burgers. You want to get a burger?

[Christine]

I'm gonna get like a big woodpecker and I'm gonna say, actually, wait, hang on. Where's it. Where's the grackles this time of year? Because I think.

[M]

What? What are grackles? Are you speaking German again? It's English.

[Christine]

Oh, my mistake. You know how I feel about English. I guess we're in the bit now, so we're rolling by accident. I guess. I need. I need everyone to understand that we were talking about storks, which depending on how much Jack leaves in, you'll know that already. But we're talk like stork themed. Well, we were talking about throwing a baby shower for Eva as the baby. To be clear, she's not having a child. She's getting married.

[M]

She is the Baby to the love of her life.

[Christine]

She's, she's, she's good, but she is the baby. In this hypothetical but quickly becoming real realistic event we're hosting, which is a parapods retreat baby shower of Eva being brought by Zip. It's sponsored by ZipRecruiter obviously.

[M]

Yeah, ZipRecruiter is going to pay for it.

[Christine]

They're going to pay for the whole thing.

[M]

She doesn't know though.

[Christine]

Yeah, Zip recruiter doesn't know either. But they are going to both be heavily invol.

[M]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Christine]

So it all makes sense now. And based on that, Em said, oh, well, I never really had a stork themed baby shower. And I said, I guess. Yeah, we talked about how that was in 90s. It's still a thing but like it was a thing where people would put the big stork outside with the baby stats. And Em was like, I want a big bird with my stats. And for some reason instead of just like, hey, maybe we can rent a stork. Em was like, I know, I'll get a flamingo with a scroll. And I was like, I was trying

[M]

to like, how do we have judge it up from the 90s?

[Christine]

It was like you parallel jumped both the stats in the bird to like two other things in my brain was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[M]

Well, and the stats would be interesting because the stats when you're a baby are six foot tall. It's like, oh, all ten toes. And I'm like, I still have those. First of all, I should put that on the flamingo. I should say we still have the toes.

[Christine]

They don't put all 10 toes on the like.

[M]

And then also like a QR code to like feet pics, you know, just in case people want to check.

[Christine]

Oh my God. I thought you're gonna say to the baby registry. And then it got so dark.

[M]

Oh, a baby registry for an adult. That sounds fun.

[Christine]

There is no way in hell that your mother did not throw some sort of baby. Oh, you're saying as you as the parent didn't receive the party. I used to for sure have had the stats, Linda. If anyone got a fucking giant wooden stork to announce their baby's arrival, it was Linda. So don't even act like you didn't have one of those.

[M]

I think hers was more like a firework ceremony over like a popular city.

[Christine]

Like she, like a mid sized metropolitan area.

[M]

Yeah, I feel like the pope came to town. So I think she wasn't paying attention to like the wooden bird.

[Christine]

Oh, that was like small. That was like children's play. Yeah, yeah.

[M]

Small potatoes, I think. Gotcha.

[Christine]

But you want the classic. You want a flamingo holding a scroll, and that's. It's like you're gonna relive that. I get it.

[M]

You see?

[Christine]

Well, it could be like. It couldn't. It didn't. It won't have to be, like, pink. It'll be like rainbow stork. You know, like, it would be glow

[M]

in the dark so people could still see at night.

[Christine]

Of course.

[M]

I'm not an idiot. What am I? An idiot? If you had. If you had to have a flamingo with a scroll in his mouth to announce your current stats, what stats would it be? You're still your weight. Maybe all ten toes.

[Christine]

All ten finger.

[M]

Crazy.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'm. I'm still. Well, I was still 6 ounces or whatever. It was really heavy. I think I was like £11. Actually, you know what? That's another thing that my mother would always say, like, you were an 11 pound baby. And then I found my birth certificate was like 8 pounds and 10 ounces. And I was like, on the one hand, I'm relieved. On the other hand, I'm like, why would you just keep exaggerating how gigantic I was? What is the psychology there? And what is it saying about your subconscious, like, view of me, 11 pound baby. And I was like, eight pounds. I don't know. Anyway.

[M]

Well, it's like eight was just your head. The three. The rest of you was little legs.

[Christine]

I was a C section. Anyway, I forget what we were talking

[M]

about, what your stats would be on a flamingo scroll. And then we can step away from this. But I do need to know what you would. If you get to choose. Because the thing is, like, the baby never got to choose. Like, can you imagine if there's a baby who's so insecure about her weight and she's like, I really don't want to.

[Christine]

Why would you start to tell everybody in the neighborhood like, that was water weight?

[M]

Yeah. Please back up. I had a big, big week.

[Christine]

It was bloat.

[M]

It was bloat. Yeah. No, now with autonomy to write whatever you want on the scroll.

[Christine]

Oh, that's really beautiful. Take it back.

[M]

Reclaiming my time is what I'll call the flamingo.

[Christine]

That's a great question. So they usually have birth date, time, weight, length.

[M]

Oh, length. Yeah.

[Christine]

And then the gender or the sex of the baby. So I'm trying to think, like, what you would put. I don't want any of those. I don't think on mine, you know?

[M]

What, your birthday, so people could come bring you presents.

[Christine]

No, because I feel like people already do. No, that's. No, not in a nice way. No. That sounds bad. That sounds worse. What I'm trying to say is sometimes

[M]

we got her, folks. We got her.

[Christine]

What I'm trying to say is that there are a couple people in my personal life who just don't really understand the concept of boundaries. And so I've really been.

[M]

I see.

[Christine]

Trying to, like, set a perimeter that's, like, impenetrable. And I feel like the stats need to maybe be a little more threatening maybe, or, like, a little more grandiose rather than, like, invitational.

[M]

So you need more like a raven than a flamingo.

[Christine]

Oh, I love this. Yeah.

[M]

Or like, I don't know. What's a scary bird?

[Christine]

Is there, like, a grackle?

[M]

Sounds horrible.

[Christine]

A grackle. Those are. Those are. Those are. They have these big, beady eyes. So. Yeah, kind of.

[M]

Or like, just a gargoyle.

[Christine]

I was thinking gargoyle, and then I was like, that's not a bird. But I'm glad you said it, because I think that would really do the trick.

[M]

Okay. Well, I mean, if you ever need me to help you come up with satisfaction.

[Christine]

Black belt. Oh, I would make stuff up.

[M]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. So it'd be like. It wouldn't be a scroll. It'd be like a dry eraser.

[Christine]

It'd be a threat.

[M]

Change it up. Okay, perfect.

[Christine]

What would your stats be? I'm assuming the same. If not, you're the similar. If not the same.

[M]

I think mine would be. I don't know. It depends on my mood. If I was feeling whimsical like today, it would say, like, what my last dream was or, like, cool. Or, like. Like a conversation starter in case next time people see me out and about, they're like, oh, my God, I. I had that dream, too. We should. I like dream world.

[Christine]

Well, then how would they know where you live?

[M]

Well, the. The flamingos in the yard, just like the wooden struck was.

[Christine]

Oh. So they would, like, find you and be like, see, this is again, why I just don't like the invitational stuff. But I guess. I guess if you're trying to meet people, that's a better way to do it.

[M]

Well, the trick is that in the flamingo, its eyes are cameras.

[Christine]

I know. Same in the gargoyle's mouth. Oh, my God. We had the same idea. I like that. We silently planned that ourselves. Well, I did. And then I was like, Same with mine that I'm inventing. Hypothetically, if I don't.

[M]

If I don't like what I'm overhearing, then, you know the. It also has, like, a squirting flower. Like a clown.

[Christine]

I was gonna say it starts squirting em. It's like we're on the same wavelength.

[M]

Trust. What? Come on. Please.

[Christine]

Holy. What?

[M]

I'm surprised.

[Christine]

Please.

[M]

Anyway, if you happen to be in my neighborhood, you'll know when there's a flamingo with stats about me. And it is so that way, next time I run into you, we have something to talk about.

[Christine]

I like that the stats are about you are like. I had this weird dream last night.

[M]

It's like, I'll also. You know what another thing that the stork doesn't have. We're 28 minutes into this. I. Holy. Is that there's. There's never any space for people to also write their own stats on there so we can compare and contrast. I don't like that. Oh, I'd like to leave a little space where it's like, you know, Now.

[Christine]

Share something about you.

[M]

What do you believe when it comes to, like, are there ghosts?

[Christine]

What did you dream about last night?

[M]

Yeah, what's your, like, secret recipe that I can have so I can try it at home?

[Christine]

Are you planked? Are you plankton? In this hypothetical m. This feels like a big elaborate.

[M]

Is the Krabby Patty formula. This is just a flamingo. Not me.

[Christine]

Here are my stats. Wink.

[M]

Give me your Social Security number right here. No one's looking.

[Christine]

Smooth. Wow.

[M]

That was a really nice. That was a nice, nice time we had. What else?

[Christine]

Anyway, what's next on the agenda? Okay, I would like to say real quick that the reason I drink this week, first of all, I drink a refillable cup of a refillable Disney World mug from Art of Animation because I went to Disney World, and it was awesome.

[M]

I'm so proud of you. Did you. Was this your first time? 1.

[Christine]

So I'm glad you asked because I'm a little conflicted about it. I went when I was four, but it was because my parents had a. My dad had a steel convention in town, so they very briefly, like, brought us to the park and we did a couple rides. So, like, technically my second, but it was my first, like, real, like, you know, visit. Visit.

[M]

I understand what you're saying. I went when I was 7, and that was also the day my grandpa died. So. Happiest place on Earth.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[M]

I think that's why My parents sent me there. I think they were like, let's put

[Christine]

them in a happy place.

[M]

We already knew it was happening, so I don't. It wasn't like, oh, big shock of the day.

[Christine]

They're like, let' get out of here.

[M]

We're like, let's put, let's put you over here, and I'm gonna go to the hospital and. And we'll figure it out.

[Christine]

Yeah, but.

[M]

So the last time I was there, I was like, oh, Grandpa died.

[Christine]

They told you that there, though?

[M]

Yeah, but I, I don't know. My relationship with death has always been interesting because I heard about it, and then I went, oh, okay. And then I just kept. Kept it moving.

[Christine]

That's why I love the show. We're like, oh, Disney World's so cool. My relationship with Death is actually really interesting. Thanks for reminding me.

[M]

I feel bad. I feel like I, I, I upstaged you by accident. I was trying to relate. We've both been to Disney.

[Christine]

I'll be honest. Anything that happens at Disney World is, like, amplified. I feel it's either amplified or it's, like, dulled. And I bet your parents were hoping it would be kind of dulled or muddied, but I think over time, that kind of, like, makes it almost worse because you're like, ooh, that feels like, yeah, something bad happened in the midst of the magical time, you know?

[M]

Well, I felt, because. So Allison and I went to Universal for the day in Florida and never been there.

[Christine]

In Florida.

[M]

I'm more of a Universal person. Well, over there, they've got like, a whole, like, Avengers thing going on, and they've had that since the 90s, which is fun. So it's like retro Marvel. It's very fun, but. So I haven't been to Disney, though, so one, I want to note that it's very precious that the last time you were there, you were Leona's age.

[Christine]

Crazy. I'm okay, this. That's exactly what I was gonna say next, because I'm glad you said that. This is. I have goosebumps again. This is the craziest thing. We're sitting. Maybe it's not, but to me, it was really weird. We were sitting by the pool. I didn't even, to be honest, know how old I was last time I went. I assumed, like, three, four, something like that. My mom, I said, can you go see if you can find any pictures this week of me at Disney and we can, like, compare, you know, the Leona pictures? And she sends me a few photos, like, A half an hour later, and I'm looking through, and I see the date at the bottom, and it's like, November 16, 1995. And I was like, oh, okay. How cute. So I was four. And so it turns out I was four. I'm gonna try to remember here. I might be wrong. Four years, five months, 13 days. Something like that. And then this, like, weird, nagging thought. I put my phone down, and I was like, check. What? Check when Leona. Check Leona's age to the day. No, I Googled. I don't use. I don't really try to use AI Ever anymore, but I just got on a free one, and I said, can you calculate the date that Leona would be four years? I didn't say Leona, but I said, if someone was born this date, what day would they be? 4 years, 5 months, 13 days.

[M]

What the.

[Christine]

It was Wednesday when we were at Disney World.

[M]

Yo, I really.

[Christine]

Okay, thank you for saying that, because I was looking around, like, and I told Blaze's parents, and they're like, oh, how weird. And was like, yo, I'm freaked out.

[M]

I'd be tripping for the rest of the day. I'd be like, this is. It's like. It's like you literally get to see both perspectives, like, of, like, what you saw then and what you see now.

[Christine]

It's so weird because, like, I didn't realize how much this kind of was, like, a healing thing for me, because when I was little, we went. And I remember so vividly coming home and being like, I want to go again, but, like, for real, like, really go and, like, spend the day. And I remember, like, really wanting to go back. And my parents always said, oh, like, when you're. When you're 8, when you're 9, when you're 10. And then they got divorced, and. And the Disney thing never happened. And I remember, you know, kind of feeling sad about that. And then when we planned this trip, I thought, okay, well, this will be fun. I'll get to kind of, like, relive, you know? And as I got closer, I got. I had so much fun getting Leona ready. You know, she's, like, really into the princesses. And I was like, let's just go all in. So we were doing, like. We were, like, planning what we were going to say to Elsa and Anna, you know, and so we had such a good time planning. And I was like, I feel like I'm, like, healing myself a little bit, because I got to just total. And I get it. This is the Big, big thesis statement is that I now like me. I get it. I understand the Disney thing, okay? I went. I was like. I kept saying to Blaze, oh, oh, oh, oh. And he's like, did they get you? And I was like, I think they got me. I get it. I'm, like, tearing up watching her, like, meet Minnie Mouse in her Minnie Mouse dress. And I'm like, oh, no, it's happening.

[M]

What? Your favorite, like. Well, do you know what the thing was that ignited the feeling in you? Is that a stupid question?

[Christine]

No, not at all. I mean, I. There's a photo of my mom and me on the teacup when we were little, and we did that with Leona. Blaze and I did, and we got a photo. And I remember standing there and looking and going, wait a minute. This is where my dad stood when he took that photo of me and my mom. And so it was a little bit like, whoa, this is so trippy. And again, like, on the same day as when she turned that age, it was just very weird. Anyway.

[M]

Amazing.

[Christine]

Yeah, it was cool. And I feel like it was a very healing event. It was one of the best trips ever. And I feel like I never thought I would say that about a trip, a family trip to Disney World. Not that I wouldn't love to go, but, like, typically, like, that's not necessarily my thing, but now I'm like, oh, hell yeah. I was running around with my orange soda in my refillable cup, like, beep, beep. In my little, like, this pass and this pass. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm getting it. I'm getting in the groove.

[M]

I love a theme park. I, I, it does something I don't like. I told you before that when I first got into, like, building sets and props and everything, it came from my loaf of, like, sets and amusement parks.

[Christine]

I thought about you a lot because I was like, oh, I can understand because we, like, in the Star wars part, too, where I was like, oh, I can see if this were, like, like, Avengers or this were something like m. You know, I can see how, like, much that would affect you or, like, be exciting or be cool.

[M]

They're like, you're literally plucked into, like, a world that you've seen so many times on a flat screen. It's like, oh, I'm literally. Yeah, I get to feel like I'm here. Yeah, it's. It's really. I love, like, the magical world building element.

[Christine]

I do, too.

[M]

I'm glad that you had two days ago. That's a really, really nice Euphoric experience.

[Christine]

Yes, thank you. It was very like grounding and like fun and just like, I just was like, I'll just go with the flow. And can I tell you something too? The amount of weird synchronicities. I ran into like four listeners, I think, throughout the two or three days we were there. And all of them were just so. It was almost like every time I met someone, it was like, oh, I felt like I needed to have this chat or this conversation. And if I did meet you there, you know who you are. Because we probably had quite. There were a couple people who did. I think one or two knew I was going to Disney because I brought it up on beach to Sandy. But there was, There were two people who were like, I was staring at you, like, is that Christine? Why is she in Florida? And then this one person, this one woman who was in front of us at my new favorite ride. Oh, wait, no, that was not her. That was at the Frozen. We met Anna and Elsa and the woman in line with us was like, mom, that's Christine. You.

[M]

What'd you say?

[Christine]

No, no, we were in line for Elsa. Sorry. And the woman in front of us, Lindsay, she turns and she goes, mom, that's Christine. And I was like, hello. And we ended up being in like the same little room and my. And my mother in law was with us and she. We just had the best time. And then Leona and her daughter were watching Dino Ranch on the phone while we waited in line and I was like, this is so like wholesome. And we got to chat and stuff and. And she was like, is M here? And I was like, I think she was kidding, but I was like, honestly, I don't know.

[M]

Probably I do move in silence.

[Christine]

You do move and you do like love a theme park. So I was like, maybe. I said maybe M's at the one in la. And then we'd be like kind of parallel but cosmic. The wildest one I think to me was that I. I have a new favorite ride. Not that I had a first favorite ride. I have a favorite ride and it's the Runaway Railroad. Mickey's Runaway Railroad.

[M]

I've heard that's a good one. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Christine]

I didn't know what I was talking about either. And I was like, whatever, we'll just go on it. My, the other part was my in laws planned it. They've done Disney. They. His dad worked at espn, so they have like the discount. They handled the whole thing, which was great because I just got to show up and be a kid again and be like, we. I'm just here for the ride. So I went on that railroad thing, and I was like, this is my favorite ride. It's, like, vintage. They have all the vintage. Like, Mickey, Minnie, and, like, just really fun to watch. And then, like, with Daisy, you're doing, like, the cha cha. And Leona was, like, cracking up. We were just having a great time.

[M]

Precious.

[Christine]

We get off, and this woman walks up and goes, christine, she recognized me. And she goes, do you want to do it one more time? And I was like, what? And I was like, are you sure? Like, I don't. I don't. And I was just so stunned. And Leona goes, yes.

[M]

And so Leona was like, I don't know how the two of you know each other, but get me on that goddamn ring.

[Christine]

So personally, I don't care. Step by side.

[M]

And like, mom, you've got friends everywhere. This works out really well.

[Christine]

Exactly. She was like, is that your podcast friend? And I was like, yeah. And I just want to say to. Oh, my gosh. I met so many, so many kind people. But Katie at the Runaway Railroad, who works there, thank you for your kindness. I hope I'm allowed to say this about you helping me get Leona on the ride. I don't know. Hopefully you're not gonna get in trouble for that.

[M]

Maybe doesn't work there anymore, right? Wink, wink, wink, wink.

[Christine]

It's a shame that it was a totally different ride and a different park also. And your not Katie.

[M]

You gave us a pseudonym.

[Christine]

I did use a fake name. And so then I got onto the thing again with Leona, and I tried to take a selfie with the employee, and. But she didn't realize it, and she was moving. So there's this photo of me, and then, like, this blur in the background, and I'm like, this is the worst, like, photo ever.

[M]

I'm sure Katie's stoked that you were trying to take a picture.

[Christine]

I. I don't. I hope so. But I'm gonna say, if you're Katie, if you're out there, DM me. You probably. You might have already done. I haven't checked, but I'll send you that photo and I'll. I'll send it to. For the social media, because it's very funny, but than. And you made. By the way, you made my day so much more magical. You made Leona's. And we left, and I bought Runaway Railroad. My first ever ears. Like, my first ever ears. And I Thought, I'll see that. I'll know it when I see it. And then I saw the railroad, and it's a train. And I was like, oh, my God, it's a railroad themed. Like, that's very perfect. Anyway, thank you, Katie. Anyway, that's all to say I had a wonderful time. I am so appreciative of everyone I met. And now I am turned to talk.

[M]

People are going to.

[Christine]

Are, oh, yeah.

[M]

Probably gonna ask because I think this is like a. Of my Disney adult friends. One of the first questions they always ask me is like, what's your favorite? Like, world or town? Like, they've got like. I know, I know. I obviously am not a Disney adult because I don't even know what Right word.

[Christine]

Have you been to Epcot? That was my first time at Epcot. Cool.

[M]

Nice.

[Christine]

No, have you?

[M]

Well, because I was gonna ask you about the worlds, and then I remembered that I did go to Disney with. With Allison back in October for a day. And then we did Universal. But the Disney one, my favorite was Toontown. Oh, I didn't.

[Christine]

I didn't go to Toontown.

[M]

Oh, you would have gone.

[Christine]

Where is Toontown?

[M]

It's. Girl, I don't know. It's in Disney World.

[Christine]

Toontown. Directions to Toontown.

[M]

Please get me Toontown. Well, because that's where you beep, beep that. It's. If you like set design stuff, it's like so immersive and it's like where you go to like, Mickey's house and Minnie's house and you can walk through, through and like, it literally looks like everything is like, I'm looking, guys. It's a real house, but all cartoonized. It's very crazy.

[Christine]

Oh, it says it only. Oh, Toontown. Well, there's one in la, but not

[M]

in Disney, so you didn't even have a chance. Well, next time, if you ever take Leona to Disneyland, hell yeah, Spot. I'm very happy for you, Christine. I don't wanna. I don't mean to like, harp on this or anything, but I also, I. As someone who loves an amusement park, it's very warming to hear you have that experience.

[Christine]

I feel like I'm really growing a lot as a person and just saying, you know what? I'm just gonna go with the flow and hey, I fucking love Disney now. I mean, I don't love Disney, but I loved going to Disney World, you know, and it was awesome.

[M]

And as someone who fears parenthood, I am so impressed. You had so much fun With a child. Oh, Like, I feel like that would be.

[Christine]

Do you know that that was the best part is I think that Leona, now that she's four, there's something about that age. Four. Sorry, specifically four years, five months, and 13 days.

[M]

Right, right.

[Christine]

There's something about the age where she's like. She, like, gets it. So, like, if there's a long line and I'm like, oh, the ride's just delayed, she's like, oh, okay. It's not like.

[M]

Right.

[Christine]

Why? Like, it's like she has more reason. Yes. Yeah. She's like a. A kid. And it's more like, oh, we can. And we have. We. Leon and I now have, like, inside jokes and stuff.

[M]

So really, what you're telling me is parenthood. The. The fears that I have and the. The. The burdens I'm scared of taking on are really only, like, three years old. Like, three years long.

[Christine]

That's literally how I felt. And then I was like, that's probably totally wrong, but in my mind, like, the first few years are beautiful in their own way, but they're very hard. And it's still hard. Don't get me wrong.

[M]

Sure.

[Christine]

But there's something about the independence of, like, the preschool age where she, like, we went to see Crush the Turtle, and she. We sat her down in the front with the kids, and then, like, 10 minutes in, she stood up, walked right to the front and sat down in front of. She's like, there was a spot open, and I wanted a better view, and we were like, get it, girl. I don't know. So. And we went to the pool party at night, and she, like, made, like, a little older girl, was, like, helping her, like, guess the answers to the, like, name that Tune. And just, like, watching her play, and I just got to kind of lay there and, like, listen to a podcast, and I was like, this is the kind of parenthood I can handle a lot better.

[M]

It does feel very lovely.

[Christine]

It was. It was really. And we stayed up till, like, 10:00pm and, like, you know, she stayed up late, and we went to bed and slept in our nemo. I mean, it was the best week of my life, too. I think I was reparenting myself in the process, but it was a very lovely time. So I. I'm going on so long. I'm so sorry.

[M]

That's okay. I mean, I. I encourage it. Also, I. If this is me upstaging you again, I'm really trying to work on, like,

[Christine]

No, I need to balance this out with you talking a little bit.

[M]

I'm really. It's. I know it's like an adhd, like, stereotype, and I'm really trying to work on it, but I always think that I'm coming across as, like, relatable, where I'm like, oh, I.

[Christine]

No, I mean, that's how I see it.

[M]

But then it comes across as, like, oh, I'm trying to, like, one up,

[Christine]

you know, I know many very, very active one uppers, and I don't consider you to be one of them.

[M]

Thank you. That's very nice. Well, I just. Because I haven't gotten to send this to anybody before. When I was at Universal, Universal was, like, my. The most incredible thing to me when I was a little kid, and I hadn't been since I was a little kid. And when we were there in October, Allison helped me recreate, like, pictures from when I was a little.

[Christine]

That's cute.

[M]

So I'm just gonna send you one.

[Christine]

Please.

[M]

It was.

[Christine]

Please.

[M]

We can put it up if. If people care to see that. But it was just very fun to, like, walk around, like, have, like, memory lane, you know? Isn't that precious?

[Christine]

Okay. That's so cute. And also, like, you can see the, like, the resemblance in your face, like, the facial expression. It's like, you still know how to make that same face. That's crazy.

[M]

Well, thank you. Well, I was going everywhere, and I was like, oh, I have a memory. And I. I remember I digitized on my mom's picture, so I was, like, scrolling through, like, that one year.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[M]

I was like, let's take a picture here. Let's take a picture here.

[Christine]

Oh, we gotta put. You know what? And we can post, like, my vintage Disney and your. Not vintage. I mean, it's like 30 years ago, but yeah, we can post our.

[M]

Can you post a picture of you and Leona next to each other, like, at the same age?

[Christine]

Yes, because, like, we have photos of the same. Yeah, that'd be weird. To the same day. Like, that was weird. And I. I kept, like, having this nagging feeling, and I was like, that would be too weird. Like, that would be. It's probably, like a month off. And then it was, like, to the day, and I went this camp.

[M]

That's literally, like, the most synchronicity thing.

[Christine]

So crazy. Anyway. Oh, my God, I love these photos. I'm. I'm. I love the reenactment. I wish I had thought of that next time.

[M]

Thank you. Yeah, no, I. That was. I love a reenactment. Anyway. Okay. Also, we Is. I assume that's why you drink. What do you drink?

[Christine]

Oh, that refillable Disney mug full of orange Fanta.

[M]

Can we see the mug?

[Christine]

I don't have it right now because I left it downstairs and it's not full of Fanta right now.

[M]

Oh, dirty liar.

[Christine]

I know, but that's what I drank for about four days and it's probably still running through my bloodstream. So I think, and I will say I had a de Pepe and it was this big and I drank it all. So that's man, good for you. Thank you so much.

[M]

My drink is at the door, so I'll be right back and then we're going to tell spooky stories.

[Christine]

Let's do it. You know, things change rapidly. Okay. And you never know what the latest trend in hiring is until you're hiring. And then you gotta figure it out. Well, if you're an employer who's adopted skills based hiring, the best way to ensure that your applicants have the right skills is ZipRecruiter.

[M]

Of course, ZipRecruiter recommends smart screening questions to help you hone in on that perfect match for your role. And right now you can try for [e-mail] Drink they were the stork that

[Christine]

brought Eva to our doorstep. Isn't that nice? They didn't agree to that imagery, but I think it fits.

[M]

We should throw a ZipRecruiter themed party and it's a baby shower and Eva is the main character. Zip recruiter, are you down?

[Christine]

Do you want we call Universal and have them bring a big pterodactyl to pick her up by the hair?

[M]

Do you like what you're hearing? ZipRecruiter? No.

[Christine]

Okay. Are you glad that we talk about you all the time? Are you glad? Oh my God. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. It all tracks, doesn't it, guys? Let ZipRecruiter help you find amazing candidates with the skills you seek.

[M]

Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for

[Christine]

[e-mail] drink that's ziprecruiter.com drink. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. So I just went on vacation, Em, and before I left I was like, I have to shave. And then like some sort of like bizarre miracle flamingo. My flamingo razor arrived and I thought, well, I'm sure you know, it's just fine, like every other razor. But at least it's a new razor rather than the one I've just had sitting in my shower. But no, this is like a different level. Okay. I really was very impressed because I don't think I've ever had, like, an enjoyable shaving experience. And it was like. It was, like, decent. I was like, okay, yeah, I could do this.

[M]

Yeah. Well, also, a lot of the razors out there, they're. They're not like the men's ones or they are the men's ones, but then they're just a different color. Um, but the women who actually helped build Harry's found themselves, like, rolling their eyes when the other companies were just shrinking men's razors and making them pink. So they decided to try something else. And Flamingo is born to give women shaving solutions made with their bodies in mind with no pink tax pricing. Hello. And no mediocre designed, no irritation. And high performance tools that actually look and feel good in a woman's hand. It looks very sharp, very chic. Very chic in my bathroom. It's hanging on our wall right now.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. It's like a designer piece. It's art for the art. Yeah. For a limited time, our listeners can get the Flamingo starter set for only $7 at Shop Flam.

[M]

The set includes the Flamingo original razor, one five blade cartridge, and an ounce foaming shave gel and a shower holder as well.

[Christine]

Just head to shopflamingo.com drink to claim this offer, and after you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[M]

Someone was a bad boy yesterday at the park.

[Christine]

No, it couldn't be hankies. It couldn't be. Oh, a lot of people asked about Hank.

[M]

What's that?

[Christine]

A lot of people asked about Hank because I was like. Like I would meet people and they were like, oh, how's m. How's Hank? And I was like, I haven't even met a.

[M]

He's a. I got a little loose. You see that girl? A little.

[Christine]

Oh, I see her. She's having a dance party. She literally said, you can't tame me.

[M]

To give everybody the update since I wasn't there. Floridians, Hank is good, but he has been a bad boy and so couldn't be. I don't know what's going on with him. He's having a little. He's having a week. And everyone at the dog park is very patient with him. But I have to remind him because we Go to the small dog park, and he's a big boy. I think today we're going to take him to the big dog park and humble him a little bit and remind

[Christine]

him sometimes guests, this is how it works. You got to be treat others how you want to be treated.

[M]

He was being a little too rowdy, and usually he's very good at gauging. And if, like, a dog, like, checks him on it, he'll stop. But. But he has been a little rambunctious. Well, too much. He does the thing. I feel like I'm like, a parent who's, like, defending horrible behavior. And I'm not trying to. But for context, he thinks he's playing, but he looks like he wants to fucking maul you.

[Christine]

And, like, it's right, right, right.

[M]

And I'm like, I don't know. I. I would love to know how to train that out of him. And I don't know how, but he, like, lunge and like, like, doesn't actually physically assemble. Like, tries.

[Christine]

Yeah, geodes that, and he does that.

[M]

But he's also a fucking rock.

[Christine]

Small dog, like, kind of like his haunches are. Yeah, I know, exactly. So he and Gio would probably just, like, go in circles like that.

[M]

I hope. I would hope so. Like, and his best friends there are, like, little dogs who like that. And so, like, those little dogs are like, oh, give it to me. And they like him up, and he eats it up. But then when those dogs aren't there.

[Christine]

Oh, and the ones are like, what the Are you doing?

[M]

Yeah, he tries to do with the other dogs, and it's like, you can't. You have to. To. You have to.

[Christine]

You have to ease everybody into it. Yeah.

[M]

You have to pick and choose when you do that. Anyway, he's in timeout currently.

[Christine]

Oh, baby.

[M]

Okay. This is arguably one of the best copics we will ever cover. Do you. Well, do you remember what is supposed to happen today?

[Christine]

Not even. Oh, wait, no.

[M]

Okay. So if you recall, in our last episode, we discussed the Goldfield Hotel.

[Christine]

Yes, I remember that.

[M]

I have a recap for you because I know you don't remember what happened.

[Christine]

It was a hotel, and it was called Gold Field, and there was a Gold Rush era. Well, I know. Can you believe that?

[M]

It's like, I don't even. It's like, I don't have to be here.

[Christine]

It's like I got an A on the test.

[M]

Well, I. I say there's no way you would remember because there was. I didn't remember either. So I Was like, what the hell happened? So I had to go back and look through my notes and just for other people who did.

[Christine]

Oh, there was a lady in white. No, I'm kidding.

[M]

Well, there was a lady for sure. You know her as fuck. What's her name? Elizabeth. Because remember the guy who owned this very luxurious Gold Sound hotel?

[Christine]

He chained her to a radiator.

[M]

Yes. He got her pregnant. Although he was married to somebody else. And so nobody would find out in town. He stole. Stole her away in the night and hid her in one of his hotel

[Christine]

rooms radiator, threw her pregnant throughout her pregnancy and then.

[M]

Oh, and then killed. And then when she gave birth to the baby, which you make a great point of like, why need just kill her immediately.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

But through the pregnancy. And then killed her and the baby and threw them down one of the mine shafts connected to the hotel.

[Christine]

My only guess now that we bring back up throwing the baby down, the hit. You know, now that we're discussing.

[M]

Now that we're unpacking that again.

[Christine]

Thank God. Thanks for the reminder. I wonder if it's. Is one of those things where the baby's born and he's like, it's not a boy or it looks just like me and I don't want everyone to know. I mean, I don't know, maybe he was trying to find a way to be like, we can make.

[M]

Maybe he found out that it wasn't his. Oh,

[Christine]

maybe he went, oh, holy.

[M]

Maybe that that little baby had like some red hair or something because, like,

[Christine]

it's not like he doesn't have an. It's not like he has an anger problem or anything. Changing. Changing her to a bedroom or whatever.

[M]

You see?

[Christine]

I see. I understand.

[M]

At any rate, he allegedly killed them both. Or at least hired somebody else to do it and handle a form where we left off. And why this is so special and why you're about to be so excited, Christine, is because the last thing I said was that after the 1940s, the hotel was abandoned and neglected and then became very loved by the paranormal community.

[Christine]

That's right.

[M]

When a young man with a dream decided to film a documentary here in 2004. And that man ended up becoming the Zach Bagans. And this documentary was the very first iteration of what would become Ghost Adventures.

[Christine]

Let's do it. Let's do it. It's part time. Oh, yeah.

[M]

So we're gonna start 2004. It was a real year for us. We were in middle school. It was probably tough.

[Christine]

May. Oh, it was miserable. I remember none of it. Do you happen to know what the topic is for you? This. Like, how did you phrase the topic this week?

[M]

Sure. I. That's a great thing because I'm sure Megan will want that for our episodes.

[Christine]

And I want it just for my heart, you know?

[M]

Oh, I see.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

Well, I did title it as both Hotel or Goldfield Hotel part two at. And as well, the original Ghost Adventures documentary. The 2004 Ghost Adventures documentary.

[Christine]

Okay. I just wanted to know, like, I just wanted to feel that phrase in my bones for a moment. Okay.

[M]

All right. This is the Goldfield Hotel, part two, aka the original 2004 Ghost Adventures documentary.

[Christine]

Oh, bring it on.

[M]

All right. 2004.

[Christine]

I've never seen.

[M]

There is a.

[Christine]

By the way, Just to clarify. At least I don't believe I have. If I have, I've certainly don't remember watching it. I was about to say, have you seen it?

[M]

Have I seen it? Yeah, I've scoured it a little bit.

[Christine]

Had you seen it before this episode?

[M]

And don't. I had never seen it before. I actually didn't know. I literally thought episode one of ghostfund.

[Christine]

I did, too, because we've watched episode one a million times and we're always. It just kind of jumps into it.

[M]

But here's where you're gonna feel like the stupidest person on earth, as do I. And as will everyone else who's ever only thought the first episode was the first of it. What does fucking Zach Bagan say? Every goddamn time. I never believed in ghosts until I came face to face with one. And that was before episode one. So something must have happened.

[Christine]

I didn't know it was on camera, though. Assumed he meant, like, when he was 10, like you and your grandpa.

[M]

Well, please hold. You're half right. Please hold. Also. Don't worry, I got you. There's the link. Enjoy watching that tonight.

[Christine]

Yo, I'm ready.

[M]

It's only on Vimeo, folks, as far as I could find, if you'd like a free link.

[Christine]

Does he not, like, is he trying to find someone to, like, sell it to?

[M]

I don't know what's going on there. And I don't know why he doesn't talk about that documentary anymore.

[Christine]

Maybe there's something up because he would be able to get it off of all the streaming. You know, if anyone could get it off the streaming, I'm gonna buy it on Blu Ray so he can never take it away from me.

[M]

Well, you know, you could just digitize anything you find on. It's like a YouTube converter. At this point, you know. No, I. For all I know it is accessible elsewhere, but as soon as I typed it in. And keep in mind, remember, I didn't know this going into doing the research last week on the Goldfield Hotel until

[Christine]

someone served up to you on a beautiful silver platter.

[M]

I gotta, I hate Reddit. I gotta think right though, because some random post was like, oh yeah. And that was like the, the, the topic of his documentary in 2000. What the are you saying to me? And that's how we got here. So thank you to that Redditor.

[Christine]

Bless you person.

[M]

The butterfly effect is crazy. So, okay, 2004, a spring chicken of a 27 year old man. He is now 48, by the way.

[Christine]

48. Okay. He was 27.

[M]

He was 27. I think he had frosted tips. I'm pretty sure.

[Christine]

Of course he did.

[M]

He was lanky. He did not have his muscles yet. Wow. And he wore blue instead of black.

[Christine]

That is so trippy.

[M]

It was just like a random man.

[Christine]

The blue is almost the most shocking part.

[M]

Weirdly, I literally wrote in my notes, like the most jarring thing in the world was that he was not in black.

[Christine]

It's just the weirdest thing to picture. I can't envision.

[M]

He just looks like a guy that came out of a Walgreens.

[Christine]

And yeah,

[M]

he starts the documentary with his very first original introduction because it wasn't the, his, his famous one.

[Christine]

I'm so delighted.

[M]

It was, by the way, just as over the top.

[Christine]

There were always signs in 2004 was like peak cringe. So I just.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh God.

[M]

If it stayed in 2004 and then he made Ghost Adventures as the series and never did it again, I would would think he was like, I'm not doing that again. That was crazy. But he clearly brought this vibe from the original document.

[Christine]

Yeah, okay, okay.

[M]

Of course I quoted it here for you. This is the original intro to the original Ghost adventures. And remember, he does not look like how he used how he currently does. So it's even sillier because he still sounds as intense and for no reason. And he. His fit.

[Christine]

Wait, so I love that the intensity is already there though. And he's like, I just haven't. I just haven't liked like he had struck gold yet. Yeah, my chrysalis hasn't quite. I haven't emerged in the full form.

[M]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. That's right. He was just the eevee in his evolution.

[Christine]

More like the ZB Shut the up.

[M]

Philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson said, all right. It is the secret of the world that all things subsist and do not die, but retire little from sight and afterwards return again and again. Nothing is dead. People feign themselves dead and endure mock funerals and mournful obituaries, and there they stand, looking out the window, sounding, well, in some new disguise. This secret must be told to the world, and they must tell it because they are not dead. I know this, and I'll prove it. Why? Chills. Why did I get that? Why?

[Christine]

Don't you want to. You want to. Don't you want to just jump off a bridge? Don't you want to.

[M]

Truly, I. Literally, out of. I think out of total excitement for your reaction, I.

[Christine]

You know, he really did have me at the beginning, like, with the. Like, Ralph. Like, okay, not at the beginning beginning. Not with Ralph Waldo Emerson. That I thought was absolutely pure lunacy. Like, don't be ridiculous. You know, starting off insane, like, give it a rest. But then when the quote began and I heard, like, see, here I go. I'm getting chills again. Here we go.

[M]

He would. Okay, the way that. Like, he would love that, but he knows get enough of him.

[Christine]

And that pisses me right off, is, like, he knows people are like this about him, and it makes me crazy mad. Okay, so what was the part.

[M]

What was the part that got you. Yeah.

[Christine]

When he said, you know, Ralph Waldo Emerson. Whether he said it or not remains to be seen. I suppose we should Google it before we claim it's true. But, you know, the quote about, like, nothing ever dies. It, like, disappears and returns. And I was like, what a night. If that's, like, a real quote, that's. I like that. That's, like, a great, like, tonally, very cool. And then it just kind of kept going, and I didn't know when the quote ended.

[M]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[Christine]

And so I was like, where did I. By the way, where's Ralph and where's zb?

[M]

Like, when typing it out, I had to go, I think he's done here.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, is this Zach now? Because I feel like we've kind of shifted tonally once again.

[M]

Yeah. People feign themselves dead and endure mock funerals and mournful obituaries. I was like, that's a Zach line, not a person quote.

[Christine]

I was like, that's a little much Ralph Waldo Emerson. And then I thought, maybe that's not Ralph Walt. Maybe that's. Now we're back to Zach. I don't know.

[M]

Yeah, he's. And I will say as soon as I Started watching. I mean, second one, that's the first thing that comes out of his mouth. And I literally immediately had to pause it. I went, oh.

[Christine]

I mean, okay. I was literally just thinking, we're going, like, line by line. We're going to be here for 16 hours and we're not going to stop because we just can't. It's going to be.

[M]

I, I, I just, I just hearing his voice. But it was a different equally cringe thing.

[Christine]

You just got to take a deep breath before continuing.

[M]

I gotta type that out. That's gonna be so annoying. So anyway, so there's the, the opening line to the original document.

[Christine]

And I'll prove it.

[M]

It. And, and I'll prove it. Yeah. So he opens the documentary with him sharing his first paranormal experience, the one where he didn't believe in ghosts until he came face.

[Christine]

Okay, okay. Okay, great.

[M]

And I do remember him mentioning it, like, once.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

Quickly. In an episode.

[Christine]

I've heard about it.

[M]

But in this one, because it's a documentary, I think he was like, we have to start from the beginning. And he literally goes to the apartment he lived in when this happened and, like, interviews the, like, super there.

[Christine]

It's funny how anything can be a documentary nowadays. You know what I mean?

[M]

Okay. D.

[Christine]

Just kidding. Okay. So he tells. It's a very serious documentary, so he has to tell us about his experience. Sure.

[M]

He goes to his old apartment and he says while in the room. I mean, he's in the room where he lived. He says in 1999, he kept waking up to a female voice saying his name at 3am and eventually it progressed where he would wake up to her floating in his room. And one time he woke up to feeling her, like, sitting on his back. And he felt paralyzed. And then that was the night that he, like, fled his apartment and believing those.

[Christine]

Do you know why I know this? I think.

[M]

Why?

[Christine]

I think I know this from, from Nick's, like, book that he wrote or whatever the.

[M]

Oh, really?

[Christine]

I think I, like, was reading. I was, like, skimming it and I saw that it was, like, in a book. Or maybe it was that weird book we found on the Internet that you bought me.

[M]

Oh, God, that was a weird one. I wish I even knew what that was.

[Christine]

And I think I started skimming through and I think she told that story, that weird fan girl.

[M]

I think I thought it was probably, like, fan fiction or something. I don't think I knew it would have been real.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'm not. Maybe it was in the Nick story. Anyway. Sorry. But I do remember. So the lady was showing up and she was, like, materializing and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[M]

And then in the documentary, the. His old landlord even says that someone once died in the apartment building. Oh. And so he. Now. Now Zach thinks it was the woman from.

[Christine]

How old was he? He wasn't a child, though. He was an adult.

[M]

Well, he was 22 when he had the ghost experience it. And now he's 27 in this. So it was only five years before. So it's like us going to, like, Losas or something.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

Or K Town. It's like us going to K Town. So anyway, that's. He films that. Great. And then now he's come face to face with one. And now we want answers.

[Christine]

Well, we do, certainly.

[M]

Answers. Answers. So this documentary is him. It's actually. I was going to say this is him setting off on a three week paranormal investigation throughout Nevada. But he even says in the intro he's like. So for the first two weeks, we couldn't find anything. So this is week three.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. And then this expects us to believe that every 20 seconds on his goddamn show, there's another demon trying to enter his body. But, oh, the first time he did it took two weeks. Okay?

[M]

And by the way, so it was Aaron, Nick and him in the beginning, and there's like little clips of Aaron and he has a full head of hair, which is insane.

[Christine]

Wow. But

[M]

I guess by week two and nothing being there, Aaron left. So the whole documentary is just him and Nick.

[Christine]

Oh, really? Failed. Wait. Oh, do you think that's why? I'm serious. Zach punishes him.

[M]

I think Zach punishes him, like, consciously maybe at our. At our f. At our very first scary experience.

[Christine]

I bet you he. He was, like, pissed off. Like, you missed, like. Like you missed this thing that we were gonna film and do, and then you still got to be part of it. And like, I bet you he's punishing him.

[M]

Well, he punished him in a different way too. Where I want you to know that if you were to have gotten chills at all when watching this, like real heartwarming chills, because you're like, oh, look how far they've come. It would have happened here. Because after he says nothing, you know, the first two weeks, nothing happened until we got to the Goldfield Hotel. And then it cuts to black. And then the credits on the screen read, 4Real Productions presents Zach Bagans and Nick Groff Film Ghost Adventures Stop. And part of me is like, cringe City. But the other part of me is like, oh, that was. They thought that was going to be it. And it was just the beginning.

[Christine]

What was it called for?

[M]

Well, it's like their production company. It wasn't them. It was a different production company. For Real Productions presents a Zach Baggins and Nick Groff film, Ghost Adventures.

[Christine]

Okay. Which is fact. But they kicked Aaron out, though. Again, that's what I was gonna say.

[M]

I was like. Because he wasn't there. They probably were like. And you're not invited to the. The executive producer role.

[Christine]

Oh. And, you know, Aaron's had FOMO ever since, which is why he's so clingy. And then, like, Zach. I mean, it's so up. Like, men, Come on, Go to therapy.

[M]

Well, so the hotel investigation is only Zach and Nick, like I said. And also, in at least the first few seasons of Ghost Adventures, he does say in the intro, he's like, with no fancy camera equipment.

[Christine]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[M]

And it was very cute to not have that, like, voice in my head while also watching the fact that this was in 2004, before ghost hunting was, like, a cool thing. Before he was friends with that Bill

[Christine]

Chapel guy and he had all the fancy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[M]

There was nothing fancy. He literally. It was just him and his buddy with a camera, a flashlight, a voice recorder, and a dream.

[Christine]

And a dream. And by the way. And a grudge against Aaron and a really lame name for their production company or whoever. Whoever's production company. But the other thing is, that was also week three, and they hadn't had anything. So, like, they're still doing this on week three with no footage so far is crazy to me.

[M]

With. With, like, two.

[Christine]

Well, also, I would have kicked Aaron out, too. Hang on. I. Aaron. I would have kicked Aaron out, too, now that I think about it.

[M]

Honestly, like, you know what's funny is, is because I so desperately want to, like, defend ghost hunting, I'm like, well, of course they didn't get anything. They didn't have any equipment. But then I'm like, well, yeah, equipment isn't real. I'll never know. But. But, yeah, they literally just had cameras and a flashlight.

[Christine]

And then maybe the universe needed him to commit. You know, they were like, if you make it past the first two weeks, you can prove that. This is.

[M]

It's almost more telling. It's like, well, if you could only have one camera and that's it, and you got shit, then maybe.

[Christine]

I guess he worked for it.

[M]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so now they do their very first walkthrough. Basically, they hear that there's this old western guy that people see walking through the halls. They get people have heavy items thrown at them. One person's been levitated and shoved into a wall. There was a camera crew that came in before them and like a, for a different segment and I guess the camera got lifted out of the cameraman's arms by itself. Horrifying.

[Christine]

Know.

[M]

And one thing that again, maybe there were signs from the very beginning. Maybe we should be listening. But one thing that ghost adventures witnesses here that I saw nowhere else is possession. And on their first try with only a camera, a flashlight in a dream.

[Christine]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. So now I'm shifting again because I'm down, I'm downshifting now because I'm thinking, hang on a second. So I was all, I was all proud of them for waiting two weeks to get any footage. But then I'm like, so then you jump from nothing.

[M]

Like I don't know. Man act possessed.

[Christine]

Exactly. I just, I, yeah, I, I, it, I mean maybe it was just like so extreme and shocking that it like worked. I don't know. I guess. Do you believe it? That's a loaded question. Cuz it's like layered. But I, I,

[M]

I think in this, I don't know. I don't know because it's too, Let me put it this way. I'm gonna be talking about this documentary and then you get like a bonus. Okay, Bonus footage that I'm gonna talk about. And I feel like at least one of these people was a phony and it could have been either. I wanna, I wanna believe that someone is telling the truth here.

[Christine]

Interesting. Oh, I thought Zach gets possessed.

[M]

Please hold.

[Christine]

Oh, okay.

[M]

Okay. So in this documentary, Zach and Nick and they have a caretaker who shows them around and they all decide they're going to try to do a seance here.

[Christine]

Of course, of course.

[M]

Immediately they hear sounds upstairs and they get freaked out, which I love finally seeing. Zach freaked out because he was new

[Christine]

to this stuff in genuine, genuine fashion. That's really refreshing.

[M]

And after two weeks of nothing, he was probably like, oh my God.

[Christine]

He's probably like, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[M]

And the caretaker during the seance. And now sounds are happening upstairs as if they just stirred something up. Now the caretaker is acting a little possessed.

[Christine]

Oh, ew.

[M]

She starts saying really odd things. None which were juicy enough for me to write down. But she started saying odd things and acting kind of out of character. And later on they interview her and she had no recollection of that. So she says weird. She was also the caretaker who was levitated and shoved into a wall. So I don't. I don't know about her credibility, but she. She could be. Could be telling the truth. I don't fucking know. But then they do playback on their 2004 digital camera.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[M]

And they catch a shadow, and they're able to somehow debunk that it's not their shadow. So they think that might be, like, the western guy that everyone sees. They hear sounds and Zach is freaked out again, which, again, so refreshing. And. But also it's because he didn't have all of his muscles to protect him yet.

[Christine]

True. And he wasn't, like, ready to, like, punch the ghosts. Right. Right about now. He was probably more in flight rather than fight.

[M]

He didn't have all of his tattoos to, you know, to threaten everyone, make him look really scary.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

He didn't have all the crosses tattooed on him, so he didn't have a protection.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Finally he has his amulets in his body.

[M]

He's Iron Man.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

So I did write down his. His. His response when he got freaked out because there were, like, really creepy sounds going on, and I'm going to assume that they weren't faking it.

[Christine]

I. I would genuinely believe that he was scared in this instance.

[M]

Yeah, he seems genuinely scared. And also because, like, they didn't have a series where, like, they had, like, you know, to keep ratings high or anything, and everyone. He has this Persona know that. That. That everyone knows now, and it's kind of assumed that maybe not all of

[Christine]

it, he might be, like, more just authentically. I think.

[M]

I think he was really hearing actual sounds and freaking out. And this is what he said. He said, okay, we hear you. We hear you. Okay. And. And we don't think you're very nice, but. But we have. We have no. We have no fear of you.

[Christine]

Wow. He's like a little tiger cub. Like, first roar. Yes, exactly. Oh, my God. Do you hear you?

[M]

Okay, we hear you.

[Christine]

And I'm not scared at all.

[M]

The day he hit the gym, by the way.

[Christine]

Wow. Wow. That was the day he hit the gym is how he said he was like, something's got to change.

[M]

So the next thing that happens is the thing that I think made this documentary very successful. I am going to.

[Christine]

I mean, not successful enough that it's anywhere streamable, but. Okay. Right.

[M]

Well, no, this. This was the thing that I think.

[Christine]

But it probably got him his show. Right.

[M]

Whoever saw it at, like, a casting or some sort of production company submitted

[Christine]

as A pitch or something.

[M]

It became. They were like, okay, we're gonna give you.

[Christine]

We're gonna give it a shot.

[M]

Wow. So this is the clip. It's. I want you to go to 20 seconds, and I want you to look at the bottom left corner during this clip. But I will. I will preface it by saying this is after he just heard all those sounds, and he's super freaked out. And they go into this room that's unfinished, and there's a bunch of, like, abandoned, like, bricks and lumber. And it looks like kind of like a construction zone. It's just, like, untouched basement stuff.

[Christine]

Okay. And you said to go to. So this is. Look where the flashlight is showing. You said, okay, 20 seconds. Here we go. And we'll put the link to this in the show notes.

[M]

Yes. Is that you making all the noise.

[Christine]

That scared me? Was that a brick?

[M]

It was a brick, yeah. So why we got.

[Christine]

I was about say, oh, it's probably a bat or something.

[M]

That would be funny. But no. Is that you making all the noise?

[Christine]

Holy.

[M]

Oh, my. There are things in this world that we will never understand. You want answers?

[Christine]

I'm so pissed off at Aaron right now.

[M]

Literally, you know that they were screaming. They called Aaron in the car later, and they're.

[Christine]

You know that they manifested. They manifested all this activity just to be like you, Aaron.

[M]

I literally, you know that when Aaron saw that footage, though, he went, thank God.

[Christine]

Yes. Yeah. Honestly, though. And then he's been punished ever since. You're probably right. But so, yeah, for those who don't know. Crazy.

[M]

For those who don't know, we did. We are going to post the link, but in case you are not. That's not accessible to you, basically, he's in a room. He's already freaked out. He's saying, I'm not scared of you. And then. Then a brick literally levitates like, a foot off the ground and then flies

[Christine]

at them, gets chucked from. But you see it. It's, like, on the floor, and then it just, like, gets chucked toward them.

[M]

It, like, it looks like it. It looks like a. Like, it looks like it's levitating and flying on its own. It's crazy. It's like.

[Christine]

It's like someone threw it, but, like, from the floor. That's.

[M]

It's like.

[Christine]

I mean. Yeah. No. Yeah. Really? That's what it looks like. That's crazy.

[M]

And so, like, something threw a brick at them.

[Christine]

Oh. And they are scared. It's not like they're, like, doing any hijinks here. You Can. There's no hijinks here.

[M]

You can tell the screams from Zach are like, never before.

[Christine]

And that's probably why he banned it from the Internet.

[M]

I was gonna say Zach, I pray to God you never hear this episode, by the way, but if you were to, I motion for you to bring back screaming like a little girl because it made it so much more authentic.

[Christine]

Yes. Totally believe.

[M]

There's no way you're not scared. Just be scared. Scared. It's okay.

[Christine]

I just envisioned us someday in a court, like, having to watch this on the TV with the jury watching because we've been sued by Zach Baggins.

[M]

And that's funny because I see us in jail.

[Christine]

Yeah. Okay. Also watching Zach Bacon still, you know,

[M]

in, like, the settlement, he'd be like, they're going to jail for the rest of our lives. And also, you have to play this.

[Christine]

And also, this is the only thing able to be play on movie night. Yeah, I'm gonna watch this brick one more time. The weird thing is that it does cut right before it, though.

[M]

It does. Let me see. Is that you making all the noise?

[Christine]

That's pretty crazy.

[M]

What if that was Aaron all along? And they were just like, oh, he went missing and he's just throwing bricks.

[Christine]

He's just in the corner waiting.

[M]

Yeah, he was just the first person to, like, fake a. An event.

[Christine]

Then he probably does deserve the punishments he's been getting.

[M]

It's karma for a global. Karma.

[Christine]

That's right.

[M]

So basically, they get freaked out and they sprint away. Like, I've never. Like, the camera. It's 2004. It looks like the Blair Witch, like, just running down a hole. And then he's literally hiding. Zach is in. Just hiding in a room and screaming.

[Christine]

And you can so obvious why he's not letting this be played on the Internet. It's cracking me up to the extent of my beat. This is beautiful.

[M]

He's horrified. Horrified. And I don't blame him. I'd be horrified, too. If you're in a ghost town where there's a population of like, maybe 500 people. You just got a brick thrown at you in a basement, and, like, you're. You're by yourself.

[Christine]

You went there on purpose.

[M]

Hello. We've. We've also done it on purpose and could have gotten scared for sure. Remember the Queen Mary? We were. We left before midnight. Let's not act like we are anymore.

[Christine]

All right, I'll give him a break. This one time.

[M]

We. That Denny's, by the way. I didn't sign up for the you're right.

[Christine]

And I do believe that we. I think we've kind of hinted to each other. We haven't quite outright discussed it. Maybe we have. That maybe something dark did sort of kind of come with us after that because we had a few years of some bizarre, Bizarre stuff for the stuff, so.

[M]

Well, yeah, we can relate to Zach then, because I'm sure he thinks the Goldfield Hotel has put a curse on.

[Christine]

Okay. He thinks a lot of places have put a curse on him, though.

[M]

This would be the beginning.

[Christine]

He'd probably be right.

[M]

The first crack in the concrete.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[M]

So he's hiding and screaming, which defeats the purpose of hiding. But then.

[Christine]

Okay, good point. We just needed to say that, not the other shit.

[M]

And then Nick is in another room, hiding, screaming. And so they're both hiding in different rooms, but screaming across the hallway at each other, and they're literally screaming, I want to go home. I don't want to be here. And then they. You hear a door very loudly. It's the room that Zach's hiding in. The door moves by itself. You hear the creek of it, and Zach literally screams, and they leave immediately. And when I say leave, this was back in the day where they would literally get locked in the building so they could not leave. And they jumped out of the fire escape, the second floor. No, they were gone. They were so scared.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. They jumped out of a fire escape to get out of there.

[M]

Although, you know what I think is extra silly is that they, like, didn't for. For people who were running away. They did film themselves climbing out of the fire escape. I'm like, you still have time to, like, set it up?

[Christine]

Oh, they said.

[M]

And then they had to run back in to grab the camera properly. I don't know.

[Christine]

Okay. I can't wait to watch this tonight. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have so much commentary in my own head. I don't even know what I'm gonna do with it. Maybe I'll bring it to our next hour.

[M]

Maybe you should. You should. They. They also, like, at the end of the. He doesn't do this anymore. But they had experts, like, AV experts, come in to check the footage to see, like, if that brick was like, what could it.

[Christine]

Oh, cool.

[M]

And the experts, paid or not, did say that it looked like the footage had not been tampered with.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

Although it has been highly contended, and I have seen videos online of, like, guides going through. Through and getting to that room and going, oh. And that's where Zach Faked the brick video. It's like, oh, okay.

[Christine]

I see. I didn't even know this was part of the lore. And I, I, I wonder.

[M]

That's what made the hotel so famous.

[Christine]

That's like.

[M]

No, now is so.

[Christine]

I can't believe I, like, missed this whole chapter of his life. But I will say we're close.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. You know, I'm familiar with all the other chapters, so it's so weird. But the. The one thing I'll say is, at least from where the time stamp was, there is a very strange cut, like, right before it. So I do, I do just want to. To re. Watch it, like, in full. And I don't mean to say it because of course you have to cut in footage, and it's. I'm not saying, but I, I want to just kind of watch it later and see.

[M]

Like, I have no opinion. I think it's scary as terrifying.

[Christine]

And he's terrifying. I mean, he sounds terrified.

[M]

I don't think he could fake a scream like that. He seemed really, really scared.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

So then his closing statements in this documentary, by the way, because he had opening and closing statements, he goes, is

[Christine]

it Ralph Waldo Emerson again?

[M]

No, this is, this is all zb. He goes, how close is too close? I think we answered that. There are no. There are more answers of life after death trapped inside that hotel than can be imagined. And if you try to get too close and searching what lies beyond your last breath, you just may hit a brick wall or it may hit. Hit you. Okay, Zach, that one I like. That can stay.

[Christine]

Now, what happened between then and the gym? I love roses. I love roses. You are a pink rose. What the Roses.

[M]

Roses.

[Christine]

What the happened, bud? Like, you really nailed it. That was beautiful. I mean, artful. And I'll also say, like, pre. AI, you know, like, like, yeah, that is just, like, poignant from the soul.

[M]

I.

[Christine]

It just made you. Oh, it's good.

[M]

You. You know what? You know, in the car, he was already writing that down. He was like, I've got it. I've got it.

[Christine]

Aaron's gonna. He's gonna be. He's gonna have such fomo.

[M]

Well, so then get this. They even put this at the end of their segment, too. They say, like, oh, after our thing came out, other investigators started coming, and they didn't realize that they were like. Like they were ending up predicting that this is going to be like, a huge haunted location that everybody knows and loves. But other investigators saw that documentary, saw the brick thing, and decided to go to the hotel. For a news segment. And the people in that group. Some of the investigators. Some of the investigators were Mark and Debbie Constantino. Have we talked about them?

[Christine]

Yeah, it's familiar.

[M]

Okay. I thought we did a whole episode on them, and we haven't. So if you would like a topic, I suggest that them. But it was for a long time.

[Christine]

Oh, for me to cover.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh.

[M]

So Zach regularly had this couple investigators.

[Christine]

Of course, those two. Yes. I have not covered that, have I?

[M]

I thought you did. I looked up our episode guide, and it's not there.

[Christine]

Maybe you and I watched, like, a series on it together or something, because I remember we talked about it a lot.

[M]

Yeah, we've. I think we have. Because I. I'm like, there's.

[Christine]

Sorry, you can. You can explain. I, like, interrupted you. Sorry.

[M]

No, no, no. Sorry.

[Christine]

So.

[M]

And a lot of the Ghost Avengers episodes, Zach would regularly have on these other investigators named the Constantinos. They were a married couple, and he was really good friends with them in real life, and he. They. Mark Constantino ended up killing his wife in a murder suicide, and it ended up becoming a big. I don't know about. I won't say scandal, but it was big news in the paranormal world. And it was Zach's, like, close friends. And I mean, talk about between that and, like, now, Aaron's wife trying to.

[Christine]

Oh, for sure. There's a lot of dark and. And I mean. I mean, not to be that guy, but, like, Zach does have half his museum dedicated to, like, serial killers. And. And I'm like, get that energy out of there, man. Like, why do you have Charles Manson on a shrine in there? It's just weird. But anyway. Yeah, but the. The. The Aaron thing is crazy. Obviously, I've covered that because I was like, on the ground. Oh, I've wore my blazer. That's right.

[M]

You wear your blazer.

[Christine]

And then. But the Constantinos. Yeah, we've discussed them briefly, but I don't think we've ever done an episode. So. Yeah, I'll do. I'll look into that. Because. And I think there was a lot of. There was some scandal or whatever surrounding it, because I think some people were trying to frame it as, like, he was possessed and he killed her.

[M]

Right.

[Christine]

And it's like, there was, like, also domestic violence in the past, and I think, like, there was also talk around that. But, yeah, I. Oh, I'm gonna write that down. That's a good topic. Suggestion.

[M]

Well, so I think this is how they actually met each other, because 18 months after the Ghost Adventures documentary, The Constantinos went and did this news segment. I think that's how they got paired with each other.

[Christine]

Whoa. Okay. Geez. Butterfly effect is freaking me out today. I don't know why this all just.

[M]

I know.

[Christine]

Seeing this all laid out like 30 years, 20 years ago. I mean, I know.

[M]

And so they had heard about. They. They actually. I appreciate that Zach did this because these days, he seems to be very protective. Like, God forbid anybody else doing a paranormal content that he's willing to like.

[Christine]

Right, right.

[M]

But he put at the end of his documentary, the news segment of the Constantino's going to talk about the brick, because they saw the brick and they wanted to go and do EVPs and ask about the. The brick. So they go. And the creepiest thing, which I hinted at in the last episode that we covered this, but they go in there and they ask about, you know, did the spirits throw the. The brick? And they got an EVP of a voice that literally sounded like it was one of them. Like, it just sounded like a person there. It did not sound like a whisper. It just sounded like an extra person. And that tagged along with them. And it was in an old timey, like, transatlantic voice. Voice. But so they said, did you throw the brick? And then you can hear the voice say, thank you, but we've done it.

[Christine]

What?

[M]

Yeah. And then again, literally sounds so clear, it's horrific in a transaction.

[Christine]

Oh, forget. Because I was, like, thinking it was going to be one word. I was like, how do you know it's transatlantic? But that's like a sentence. What the.

[M]

Well, don't you worry, Christine, because Vimeo. Link.

[Christine]

Don't make me.

[M]

It is at 1 hour, 26 minutes, 32 seconds.

[Christine]

Hey, that's how old I was at Disney World. Just kidding. Sorry.

[M]

1, 1, 2, 6, 10.

[Christine]

Wait a minute. The link you sent me.

[M]

Vimeo. Vimeo.

[Christine]

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. I was like, it's four minutes long. I'm very confused. Okay.

[M]

One, 26:10.

[Christine]

Oh, I thought you just sent me that for tonight's purposes. I didn't realize I did.

[M]

I forgot that I put timestamps here so you can listen to it.

[Christine]

Fantastic. And if you guys did it. Yeah. Watching now.

[M]

Could you always tell me in the

[Christine]

recorder if you did it?

[M]

Could you always tell me in the recorder if you did it?

[Christine]

Thank you.

[M]

Did anybody say that?

[Christine]

Nobody said that.

[M]

No. Thank you, but we've done it.

[Christine]

What the hell is that? Let me listen one more time.

[M]

Yeah, just something. And if you guys did it, could you at least tell Me in the

[Christine]

recorder if you did it.

[M]

Could you always tell me in the recorder if you did?

[Christine]

Wasn't a thank you, but ew.

[M]

It sounds old timey, right?

[Christine]

It goes, thank you. Yeah.

[M]

Ew, thank you, but we've done it. Yeah. They end up bringing it up again later and they get an EVP of the exact same old timey voice saying, didn't mean to hurt anybody.

[Christine]

What?

[M]

Horrifying.

[Christine]

These are like full sentences.

[M]

I know, I know. And then this also is similar to other things that people have experienced there. I told you in the last episode that people get EVPs of a voice that sounds exactly like. As if the investigator continued speaking.

[Christine]

Oh, that freaks me out. That's like some audience or mimic. No, no, no.

[M]

Know, because they'll be like, I didn't. Everyone saw me finish my sentence. Right. Why am I still talking on this?

[Christine]

You did an episode on mimics, right? I did, yeah. That was so creepy. You should look at if you ever. I feel like you should. I want to know if there are any places that have, like, if that's like their haunting, you know? Anyway, that's a totally different topic. Sorry.

[M]

No, you're good. But so after this, Ghost Adventures obviously blew up. And years later, they actually ended up going back as specials. Oh, and the Ghost Adventures crew went back to the hotel two different times. One in season four, one season seven. But both of them featured the Constantinos. And so Zach has since removed them from streamers.

[Christine]

Wow. Oh, okay.

[M]

He didn't want anything to do with that market.

[Christine]

Wow.

[M]

But they did have one episode that. That is still up. And it was one of their Covid 2021 specials because I guess they had nothing to do. So let's go back to where it all began. And so it was a 90 minute special and it was a three night stay at the Goldfield Hotel.

[Christine]

Oh, wow.

[M]

Did you. Do you want me to cover it next time?

[Christine]

Yes.

[M]

Okay. Because I was gonna do it right now. But I'm also aware that we're like,

[Christine]

why am I obsessed with the Goldfield Hotel? It's also western and cowboy, so, I mean, I know. So I think that might be why.

[M]

Well, I'll cover it next time.

[Christine]

Is that okay? I'm sorry. My fucking story in the beginning went on for 18 hours.

[M]

No, I mean now I don't have to do notes. Sick.

[Christine]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah, brother. I love that for you. You should do that more often. We should just stop talking more often and then go, I'll do it next time.

[M]

I'll call it ZB's Return to the.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. It's like how he keeps returning. We're doing that. Like we're making more content, you know,

[M]

just coming back, all of us to. To be.

[Christine]

Yeah, he started it.

[M]

All right, well then, hell, I guess that's where I'll end then. So that is the original Zach. Zach Pagans Ghost Adventures documentary.

[Christine]

Remarkable.

[M]

Thank you.

[Christine]

You know, and it's so funny. I remember I had the catfish documentary on DVD when I was younger, like in high school, and I loved it. But yeah, I never knew about the Zach Biggins one.

[M]

I. I think it's funny that my two, like, favorite shows to binge watch.

[Christine]

Right.

[M]

Started as random documentaries, which maybe that

[Christine]

was a thing for a while, I guess. I don't know.

[M]

I think because I was like when everyone got a digital camera, so everyone.

[Christine]

Oh. So it's like the early days of, like, Nowadays you have YouTube or tick tock and that's how you get a show.

[M]

Yeah, whatever.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

I think it was very much just like that was the beginning of social media, so.

[Christine]

Right.

[M]

Well, if I film this thing and

[Christine]

it's like a real. You can pitch it, you know? Yeah.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Wow. Good job, M. That was quite a doozy.

[M]

Thank you.

[Christine]

I'm going to go get another de hee real quick. And then would you like to do a yappy hour?

[M]

Yes.

[Christine]

Okay, I will.

[M]

I will also run to the bathroom.

[Christine]

I will see you shortly. You know that we don't like to be inconvenienced, especially M. I hate it.

[M]

I hate it. I hate being obese. And one of the ways I hate being inconvenienced is when I think about cooking. I'm just like, the last thing I want to do is.

[Christine]

Especially when you're hungry. Ugh.

[M]

But now we've got hungry root. And it really does change the game all of a sudden. It's so much easier. They give you exactly what you need, all the ingredients, the exact right size. They tell you exactly how to do it. Oh, man. It really. And it's. It's done. It's quick. It's quick.

[Christine]

It's boom, it's boom, bada boom. And it's like, kind of like you have a choice, right? So some days I'm like, oh, yeah, I could make a little bit of something to eat and feel like a chef today. And some days I'm like, like, oh, I haven't eaten in 16 hours. Oh, thank God. Hungry remembered that I often do this and they sent me like a pack of bagels or Like, I know I always talk about it, but the Ithaca hummus I get every single time because it is my favorite brand of hummus. So they also send, like, snacks and stuff. They build you a custom cart. It's really great.

[M]

They know exactly what you need and they go, girl, eat this.

[Christine]

Sit down. You need it.

[M]

You're going to love Hungry Root as much as we do. And for a limited time time, you can get 40 off your first box, plus get a free item in every box for life.

[Christine]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. So this copy says, how much time were you spending and like, what do, like, dealing with your finances before Rocket Money? I'm like, I don't want to tell anyone that. Thank you, thank you, thank you for asking, but none of your business.

[M]

I.

[Christine]

Too much.

[M]

Way too much. I. I recently just went through my phone and deleted all of the apps I don't use.

[Christine]

Oh, yes.

[M]

And now everything fits on, like, one slide, which is delicious. But as I was deleting things that would say, would you like to cancel the subscription? And I went. And then I signed into Rocket Money and they went, hey, guess what? You've got some subscriptions that you've recently purchased in the middle of the night and forgot all about. And if it weren't for Rocket Money to double check and show me the entire list of all these apps that I was paying for and I didn't know it really. It, it, it.

[Christine]

It's a game changer. Money really is. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings and they will cancel them for you. That's the best part.

[M]

It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Truly. People have heard us talk about this in my personal life and they're like, do you really like Rocket Money that much? And I'm like, sign up before you don't give me your phone. Yeah. Oh, it's a great thing. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] Drink.

[Christine]

That's RocketMoney.com Drink RocketMoney.com Drink. Lovely. Let's get into it. I have a weird one today which is like one of these rabbit holes I went down and decided to make into a story because it is a true crime story, but it's kind of off the beaten path. Right.

[M]

Like, I love it.

[Christine]

To give you. You a hint and to give you a little bit of not a hint, I guess maybe more of like a little bit of relief going into this story. Nobody died.

[M]

Oh, well, I like what I hear.

[Christine]

How does that feel? Right?

[M]

It was real good.

[Christine]

Thought it might feel good. So we are gonna get on it.

[M]

I'm loving this episode so far. We're.

[Christine]

I know.

[M]

It's really like, man, everything's nice.

[Christine]

Things are. Things are. Are flowing well. You know, Mercury has. It is Friday the 13th. Mercury has been in retrograde, but Jupiter just went out of cancer. Okay, we'll talk about another time. I'm really into astrology right now, and I feel like next yappy hour, we gotta chat because I have so much to say. Okay.

[M]

I didn't even know it was Happy Friday the 13th.

[Christine]

That's two in a row. Because we had one last month, and we. By the way, we recorded on Friday the 13th last month because I remember thinking, we're like, whoa, we're, like, really

[M]

good at our job. I feel like we should have celebrated, and we did not.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, now we had two chances in a row. We forgot.

[M]

Yeah. We're not actually that good at our jobs, it seems. Okay, well, on this Friday 13th, take it away.

[Christine]

This is a story of the Harvey's casino bombing in the Lake Tahoe area.

[M]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. Good vibes already, huh?

[M]

I was, you know, I was expecting to be in a different space.

[Christine]

Why aren't you excited? So, speaking of cordelane, we're going back to 1980, and we're where everyone who

[M]

enjoys it was bored.

[Christine]

Reagan was a sparkle in the American dream. No. Okay. On August 27, 1980, a white Dodge delivery van bearing a small bumper sticker her that read do not disturb the. By the way, I had to go digging for this kind of information. Okay. I listened to a lot of podcasts on this, and I. I was like, there has to be more about the actual heist or whatever you want to call it. There has to be more detail. I can't just have, like, they pulled up in a car. I want to know the details. And I found them. The van bore a small bumper sticker that read, quote, do not disturb the occupants of this vehicle when it is rocking. Which, by the way, like, there are catchier ways to say that.

[M]

That's. That feels like it wanted. It wanted my brain to pause, so I had to think about it longer.

[Christine]

Yeah, it feels like it's a sign. Like. Like it's been Zero days since someone got hurt. But they tried to make it like, sexy. And it's like, yeah, do not disturb the occupants while the vehicle is rocking. It's not quite as sexy as I think you're trying to say.

[M]

Does it. Does it just mean that like they're like head banging?

[Christine]

No, it means sexy time. I think if you.

[M]

If the door. If they. The beds are rocking, don't come.

[Christine]

That's the catchy way. I think maybe in 1980, maybe they hadn't come up with like the Axiom yet. You know, it was in beta.

[M]

They hadn't.

[Christine]

It was in beta. They were trying to be classy. I don't know. So this van, very professional, right? Drove from South Lake Tahoe into Stateline, Nevada.

[M]

Hey, girl.

[Christine]

Hey, girl. Three men wearing blue workers coveralls parked the vehicle and got out. They unloaded a massive desk sized metal device that had been wrapped in a cloth featuring a crude hand painted IBM logo on the side.

[M]

God. So you can just tell that they.

[Christine]

That's why I needed the details. Like, what the.

[M]

I can't believe that's not the headline. It's like someone clearly faking the IBM logo with their weird graffiti in 1980.

[Christine]

Like, please. You know, they just had Sharpies and they were like this. Or an Expo marker. And they're like, this will work.

[M]

I was gonna say an Expo marker or a vis a vis. And. Oh my God, Vis a vis. Pens. And like the. Just this, the. The squiggles. Like the white lines through it. Because you can't ever.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[M]

Like the squeakies.

[Christine]

And it's like.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And it's. Ah. And then you got your fingerprint in it by accident. It's like 100%. And so these guys wheel this device, which appeared to be a copy maker from the outside. They wheel this device through a side entrance of Harvey's Resort hotel onto a service elevator, and then took it to the second floor. Now, let me tell you a little bit about Harvey's Resort hotel.

[M]

Okay?

[Christine]

This is some info I found from a Lake Tahoe historian named David Attenucci. Antonucci, who wrote a book about Lake Tahoe. And here's what he had to say about Harvey's Resort Hotel. He explained it as originally known as Harvey's Wagon Wheel Saloon and Gambling Hall Hall.

[M]

Oh, sick. That sounds fun.

[Christine]

Very cool.

[M]

If that were in Boise, that's where I would be headed.

[Christine]

Should have stuck with the original name. I agree. I think it's way cooler. But anyway, Harvey's Wagon Wheel salute And gambling hall. It was founded in 1944 by a man named Harvey Gross. And he was. I just kept this in because I thought it was weird. He was a wholesale meat butcher from Sacramento, California. He was originally in the Lake Tahoe area. Just selling meat. Just walking around selling meat.

[M]

That feels like something a man named Harvey Gross does.

[Christine]

Doesn't it though? And just like out of the blue he thought, you know what'd be really cool is opening a casino. But it's a risky move because it was the forties. You don't. I mean, I don't know, you don't know really what you're doing. But I feel like that was kind of common though.

[M]

I mean, think of like Bobby Mackey's. There's a slaughterhouse. And it became like this like big.

[Christine]

Good point. That's so weird.

[M]

It's just, it feels like it was like, well, well, this is just farmland.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

The only thing that's ever died.

[Christine]

I just have property, I guess. Yeah. And why not like make it a hotel? I don't know.

[M]

I don't know.

[Christine]

Or a casino. Yeah. It's just weird. So anyway, he started this casino as a simple one room log cabin on Highway 50 in Stateline, Nevada, which is where our story takes place.

[M]

Okay.

[Christine]

At the time, Gross and his competitor William F. Hara, who opened Hera's casino across the street, which is pretty famous, I believe. Believe?

[M]

Oh yeah.

[Christine]

Were taking. They were taking a massive risk opening these businesses. Betting that because Lake Tahoe, especially back then, was like pretty out there, right? It's like remote, like you have to travel there. And so they were kind of having to bet that the harsh weather and the remote location wouldn't deter tourists and gamblers from visiting. But they nailed it. Because over the next few decades, Harvey's and Harris both grew into very successful businesses. Harvey's, these specifically grew from a roadside cabin into South Lake Tahoe's first high rise casino hotel tower.

[M]

Holy.

[Christine]

By the time of the 1980 bombing, it was a massive 11 story resort with nearly 200 hotel rooms, thousands of slot machines and a huge array of table games. So just to give you context of what this place is in the year 1980, it is, it is bopping. Everyone's in the casino placing bets and drinking, smoking. These men wheel this copier in with the Expo IBM on the side. They head upstairs, place the device on some wooden blocks in a small nook near the telephone equipment exchange room. And then one of the men took a bunch of wooden toothpicks and jammed the keyholes in the surrounding doors to lock them, which I've never heard of that.

[M]

I think it's just so that if you put the key in, there's something.

[Christine]

Yeah, that was a very specific. I was like, what a creative thing to bring with you. Like a bunch of toothpicks.

[M]

I, I wonder, I mean if they're literally using random markers. It seems to draw an IBM logo. I think he looked around his kitchen before they left him, like, ah, toothpicks.

[Christine]

No, he probably had something in his tooth and was like, oh, this works pretty good. Yeah, yeah. So it's a little bit random, but so he jammed the keyholes of the surrounding doors with wooden toothpicks and glue do. And I'm like, all right, yeah, probably unnecessary, but is he locking.

[M]

Is. Are they also locking themselves in the room?

[Christine]

They are not. They are creating an exit point for themselves. So I believe that they left one exit route open and jammed the other doors shut.

[M]

Okay.

[Christine]

Next to the machine, they left a three page typewritten envelope. Well, three page typewritten letter in an envelope addressed to Harvey's manager. It was on the floor beside the machine. And then they got back in the service elevator, drove away in their sexy van at approximately 6:30am and by the way, this was like sometime in the like early morning, late night hours. So we don't. I, I think it was like 3, 4am so at approximately 6:30am graveyard shift supervisor Bob Vinson noticed the slightly open door to the telephone room and discovered the device in there. And he also discovered the tampered locks. And so immediately. Right. Red flag flags. He contacted the casino security supervisor, Simon Cabin, who had just so happened to have recently completed a letter bomb training course.

[M]

Oh, did he?

[Christine]

Did he a letter bomb? He actually did. He did just happen to.

[M]

To complete what is a letter bomb training course.

[Christine]

Thank you so much for asking. Well, a letter bomb, sometimes called a package bomb or a parcel bomb, is just an explosive device that is packaged in a parcel or an envelope and upon opening it, it's meant to explode. And so it's like a.

[M]

Who is. Who's teaching this class? Why is this class even an option?

[Christine]

That part I don't.

[M]

And where can I take it? Right.

[Christine]

And also more importantly, m. Do you have time in your schedule? I don't think so. There is. I think it's just because you're head of security at a casino that you would take a class like this. Maybe.

[M]

That did not click for me.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's the 80s. I don't know. I think it's like, we got anthrax coming up in a few hot years. And, you know, there's. There's probably just the newest.

[M]

Like,

[Christine]

I don't know, maybe after the Unabomber, people started getting concerned. I'm not sure.

[M]

No, that makes sense. I. I totally didn't think security and like.

[Christine]

Right, right, right. And the reason I brought that up is because he got there, the head of security, and he had just taken this. This, like, letter bomb course, and he sees this letter on the floor, right? And remember, it's three pages in an envelope and it says, harvey's management. And he's like, he probably thought it was like a training exercise, honestly, because he's like. He sees this, like, thick envelope on the floor and he's like, oh, like, I think that's a package bomb.

[M]

I. I mean, I would wonder too. I'd be like, it's kind of eerie

[Christine]

that that's happening, you guys. Are you pranking me?

[M]

Like, can you imagine that? Like, I just finished my, like, first aid class, and then all of a sudden the guy's, like, bleeding out on the floor.

[Christine]

I know, right? Someone just dies in front of you and you're like, oh, yeah, are you tricky? Did my coach set you up to this being tricky?

[M]

Did I tell you about my final cl. The. At the CPR first aid? I'm also doing a cpr. Basic life support, which I guess is different, but. Oh, whatever. I'm. Whatever. But at this class that I just finished, we had a final test at the end before we could get certified, and he literally said, okay, I'm just going to, like, I'll. I'm gonna leave and then I'll come back and I'll pretend like something's wrong and you guys have to all work together and, And. And save me. And he comes back. This dude did not tell us that 10 minutes away is Hollywood. And he apparently brought a gallon of fake blood. And he just walks in and looks like a full blown victim of something. He just dripping the whole floor everywhere. Like, my notebook that I brought is, like, covered in like this, like, red syrup. Like, it's.

[Christine]

This is why this, like, it's a. It's like holly weird. It's very real.

[M]

I'm sorry.

[Christine]

These people are nutty. They're like, let's add some pizzazz.

[M]

He literally kind of like on his fort, it was dripping off of him. It was like in his, like, in, like on his leg. And his shoe is dripping it. And I was like, this guy committed to the bit because He. And he really. It really did catch us off guard, which is like, what would happen anyway. But I was as. I'm looking him in the eyes and trying to, like, ask all the right questions and be. Be like, you know, I'm also, like, giggling because I'm like, you can't be for real.

[Christine]

Like, like, where did you go? Which costume store did you go to?

[M]

And, like, was there just a gallon of blood sitting right outside the door? So you pre ordered.

[Christine]

Yeah, he probably pre ordered it.

[M]

I. I was very impressed. Sorry. So I, I. Sorry.

[Christine]

No, I. I forgot I was even telling a story. I was very invested in that.

[M]

That's because of me. I'm sorry.

[Christine]

No, I just was really invested in the. All the fake blood. Okay, so let's see. So a letter bomb. He's looking at this. So cabin goes, he arrives. He spots the envelope on the carpet. He says, everyone out. This. There's one man for the job. It's me. I took a letterbomb course. Okay, everybody step aside.

[M]

Everyone steer clear. I'm on it.

[Christine]

I'm on it. Cabin and a responding sheriff's deputy procured a pair of wooden broomsticks to poke the envelope from a safe distance.

[M]

Okay, is that. That's protocol. Give it a poke.

[Christine]

That's what I was gonna say. Wait a minute. Didn't this guy just get certified? And what, he takes a broom and starts poking it?

[M]

I did that with the guy during my course too. You got a broom? You good?

[Christine]

And he's like, you fail, actually.

[M]

Well, because in every, like, like, like Law and order cop SWAT show where there's like, they've accidentally, like, like a bomb has gone off, and like, if they step their foot off the landmine, it's. Think, let's not jostle this thing.

[Christine]

Om. Just, oh, you're so on it. Exactly 100%. You should have been. You should have been there. Okay. Cabin and responding sheriff's deputy procured a pair of wooden broomsticks to poke the envelope from a safe distance. When the envelope failed to explode after being prodded, I guess safe distance. So I guess they were like, oh, we'll just poke it and if it explodes, we'll be fine. Ish.

[M]

Or we'll be so dead so fast, we won't even know if it didn't work.

[Christine]

Weird, right? Like, I'm like, how did you find this to be a safe thing? Whatever.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

What's a safe dis.

[M]

I would imagine a mile.

[Christine]

Well, it's a broom distance. That's the only, like, how else could you say a safe distance if you're poking it with a broom and that's not that far away in my humble opinion. But again, I've not taken this course, so maybe I don't fucking know. So Caven pokes with a broom, it doesn't explode. He goes, oh, I guess it's safe to open. Open. So he leans on the copier and he reads the first page of the letter, hands the second page to the deputy. As they read the decks text, the deputy points at the box and said, hey, that thing that you're leaning on is a bomb.

[M]

I like how he like, okay, okay, okay. Imagine you're me. I'm just gonna use like my phone. It's my phone and I'm reading the notes. Imagine. Then he goes, he's reading, he's reading.

[Christine]

He goes, yeah.

[M]

And then he's like.

[Christine]

Because when you said the fingers on the thing and the, it's like, how do you even know whether to move

[M]

the fact that he's like leaning on it.

[Christine]

He's leaning on it. I think his back, I think he was like reading it like this.

[M]

Oh no.

[Christine]

And then the guy goes, that's a bomb. Not only that, M. I mean seriously,

[M]

but like if he now gets off of it, he will have he got

[Christine]

off of it safely somehow. Really somehow by virtue of sheer luck, I think, because they read this letter, not only is this bomb, not only is this copy maker a bomb, but the letter instructed them that even if it gets tilted by 0.01, like moved by like 01 on the Richter scale, this thing is going to explode. And I want to say right now, this does not end up being a hoax. This is a very real bomb that is actually very strategically created to, to go off at the slightest tilt.

[M]

I'm glad you said that because my first thought is like, this is clearly a hook. The guy leaned on it and then was able to get off of it. So then my next thought is, is this a faulty bomb? I think it'd be a dud.

[Christine]

I think perhaps the tilting was not quite as like sensitive, right? As like maybe just leaning on it. But I think like if you were to like pick it up or he

[M]

like stubbed his toe on it.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, if he like pushed it away or rolled it or something like that. Because I'm going to read you part of the letter. It's a long ass letter, like I said, three pages. I'm not going to read you the whole thing, but I'm going to read you part of it. It said, stern warning to the management and bomb squad. Do not move. Okay, again, imagine you're leaning on the copier. You just thought the letter was a bomb, and you're so relieved that you're just going to lean back on this old copier and read the letter.

[M]

I'm gonna throw up.

[Christine]

Like, this is insane. Awful. And like, the fact that they thought this letter was the thing, and they're like, phew, just a letter. And. And anyway, do not move or tilt this bomb because the mechanism controlling the detonators in it will set it off at a movement of less than.01 of the open end Richter scale. Don't try to flood or gas the bomb. There is a float switch and an atmospheric pressure Switch set at 26.00 to 33.00. Both are attached to deton detonators. Do not try to take it apart.

[M]

So, first of all, my turn. I don't know why I did that. I'm so sorry. Sorry. Psychologically. Why are you warning people to not try things that will set the bomb off? Don't you want the bomb to go off?

[Christine]

Like, you do not want the bomb to go off. I'm glad you asked. You do not want the bomb to go off because you want $3 million.

[M]

Oh. What? This is. This is such a man's way to solve a problem. Like, I like. Why. Okay. I don't. I don't understand the logic immediately. Okay. We could have. Just like they could. Okay, whatever. It doesn't matter. Keep going.

[Christine]

I'll pass your notes along to the.

[M]

Yeah, please.

[Christine]

To the domestic terrorists that we have here. No, but for real, it's pretty nutty. So in other words, the bomb is so sensitive that the slightest movement either inside or outside will cause it to explode. He went on to say, by the way, also added here. I don't even know what the fuck this means, but it says the flathead screws are attached to triggers, and as much as 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn of the screw will trigger the bomb. So, I mean, everything on it is, like, wired.

[M]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I think that, too. I. There had to be a simpler way to do this. Like, that.

[Christine]

You'd think so.

[M]

I mean, if you're gonna rob me, like, I appreciate the theatrics, but remember, it's a casino.

[Christine]

So this is, like, very, like, hot heist, See?

[M]

Yes. And also, a lot of people are there, which means, like, it's much more threatening. You're the only three people in this building that could get hurt. It's like you could kill it.

[Christine]

And you need to take action like right now, you know? Exactly.

[M]

And then, but then what do they think is going to happen? They're going to get their $3 million and go, thanks guys. Anyway, we'll go diffuse that for you now. You're going to jail.

[Christine]

It's a three page letter M. They have very explicit instructions.

[M]

They thought it through somehow, even though it feels like they didn't think this.

[Christine]

They didn't think it. They thought it through. Exactly. They thought it through so thoroughly and so pointedly. They didn't look outside and say, oh wait, this isn't gonna work.

[M]

I need you to hear me. I need you to hear me really clearly and I need you to get close to the camera because I need you to. I need to know that you're hearing me. I fucking love this episode. Such a good story. Such a good story.

[Christine]

Drinking. What's happening?

[M]

Okay, okay, okay, I'll shut the fuck up now.

[Christine]

No, no, you're good. It's a very short story. Anyway, so that's, that's the good story. That's the good news. I mean, so they continued. This bomb can never. This is the letter. This bomb can never be dismantled or disarmed without causing an explosion. Not even by the creator.

[M]

Oh, so what? So now it just sits there on display for the rest of time?

[Christine]

It is our advice to cordon off a minimum of 1200ft radius and remove all people from that area. So first and foremost, first and foremost, authorities initiated a full evacuation before they even looked into this, like whether this was a hoax or not.

[M]

Because of course, yeah, you have to read the first paragraph and you're like, time to go.

[Christine]

Yeah. There was a one woman who was like, I was in the shower. I'm like, yeah, this is a nightmare. But they basically evacuate approximately 600 hotel guests and employees into the streets of Lake Tahoe. And people are of Stateline, Nevada and people are out there like, what's going on? You know, of course now the news are like, ooh, what's happening over there? And people are getting interested and it's becoming a spectacle. It turns out this bomb, as they looked into it, they of course got a bomb squad involved. Involved. The bomb was constructed from solid steel plates, contained nearly 1, 000 pounds of stolen dynamite and featured eight separate anti tampering mechanisms including a kinetic tilt sensor, an atmospheric pressure switch and booby trapped casing screws like the ones we just mentioned. According to the FBI's website, after 39 years it remains one of the most unique improvised explosive devices the Bureau has ever come up with.

[M]

Across. Wow. Okay. Well, then I guess hats off to these people for.

[Christine]

He's, like, a mastermind engineer. Let's just give him that one credit. That one singular credit. He's also a Nazi, but, you know.

[M]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. He literally served in the Luftwaffe, allegedly, is what he tells people, but we'll get to it.

[M]

Well, I could see. I could see why he was useful to them with his weird, evil.

[Christine]

Very good point. Very good point. With his weird, like, attempt at a James Bond style. Yes. Yeah.

[M]

Trying to make Ocean's Eleven real, but for evil.

[Christine]

Yeah, but it's just Ocean's 3, and it doesn't really kind of work, you know, that's just kind of sad. So, the extortion letter. Oh, and by the way, one of the toggles was a dummy switch meant to confuse investigators. Like, they literally had rigged it so that, like, you couldn't even remotely with it without fear of setting it enough.

[M]

Maybe too soon, but, like, imagine one day this being an escape room.

[Christine]

Oh, interesting.

[M]

There's got to be an escape room where, like, you're trying to.

[Christine]

Ticking bomb, I think.

[M]

But it's like every single thing leads to a different puzzle.

[Christine]

I think I've done one of those where there's, like, a bomb on board or something. I don't know. Maybe that's a little too.

[M]

I know it's a little. Like.

[Christine]

It's a little much, unfortunately.

[M]

But still, I'm like. I like, if he used his power for good, he could have been an

[Christine]

incredible magician for good being, like, an escape room. He would have never made it $3 million. So I don't know about. It's sort of the path of virtue or, like, let's balls to the wall this.

[M]

Should have just used it for his art. That's all I'm saying.

[Christine]

I agree. I mean, I agree, and I say the same thing about a lot of these. These really bad men, but, you know, what can you do? So the extortion letter demanded $3 million in unmarked $100 bills, warning that the bomb could detonate with a movement of less than 0.01 on the Richter scale. The ransom instructions required a helicopter pilot to drop the money at a designated location. Warning the pilot, do not try to be a hero. Arlington is full of them, and they can't even smell the flowers. I don't think that's a thing.

[M]

Zach Biggins write this.

[Christine]

Yeah, right. Okay. That's the closest to any real explanation, because I Googled it, and the Internet was like, are you learning English? Stop and smell the roses. Is it? And I was like, I know that, okay? I know that already, but smell? They can't even smell the flowers. I don't know what that means. Again, this guy was a Nazi, so probably.

[M]

Well, maybe it was. I mean, not to be, like, so on the nose here, but maybe it was, like, broken English that he was translating from German.

[Christine]

Right? Like, it might. Maybe it's like a thing. I don't know, in, like, an idiom in German or something.

[M]

Yeah, like, smell the roses, smell the flowers. And it was just like, just off and being translated. I don't know.

[Christine]

So meanwhile, the mystery bomb makers drove up Highway 50 to wait for the helicopter at a drop site near Ice House Road. But guess what? These three fellows forgot to bring the battery for their strobe light that was supposed to align, alert the helicopter, where to go.

[M]

Good. Great.

[Christine]

They attempted to steal a car battery from a Volkswagen, and that didn't work. So they went to a Shell station in Placerville and asked for a car battery. And the guy. This is another one of these. Like, just. You can't make this up. The guy looks outside, sees their car, and goes, oh, no, you're actually going to want one of these. And they're like, no, we want that battery. And he's like, no, but I see your car right there. You're actually going to want one of these batteries. And they were like, oh, give us a battery.

[M]

He' trying to be helpful.

[Christine]

Let's literally try.

[M]

Listen, man.

[Christine]

Listen, man. You don't know what we're up to. We just. We really. We're up to no good. So finally they convinced him to, like, sell them that battery. And the guy's like, okay.

[M]

He's like, fine, Be stupid. You're gonna be growling back here.

[Christine]

Back in my day, you want to listen to your elders. Yeah. So they just get the different type of battery. But by the time they return to the drop site, it was too late. The FBI pilot. Pilot and his friend that he had in the back had flown over a couple times. They saw no strobe light. They were gonna run out of gas. And they were like, well, this guy, I guess he's punking us. Little did they know, they were out buying a battery at a Shell station.

[M]

So I recently had late Christmas with my mom, and I have been complaining to her.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. I know what this is about.

[M]

I have. I don't know what's been going on, but I guess my 30s are just gonna kick me right in the teeth.

[Christine]

Yeah, they keep on coming.

[M]

Been. I've been losing some hair and I complained to my mom and she went, that simply cannot happen in this house. For Christmas she sent me like so much Nutrafol, unaware that we work with them. She then went, could I have that back? She was like, merry Christmas, but I want it now.

[Christine]

But I saw your name was on that. That was a mistake.

[M]

But listen everybody. Neutrophil is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. And it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologist. I just know when my mother said, I've heard someone talk about it before and how great it is, and I went, yeah, it was probably me.

[Christine]

Yeah. Adding neutral to your daily routine is easy. You can order online, no prescription needed. It makes a great gift, as M said, and we love it in this house and that house and Linda's house. So there you go.

[M]

Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See, visibly thicker, stronger, faster. Growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol. And for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter promo code drink

[Christine]

that's neutral.com spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code drink. Back in state line, a carnival atmosphere emerged behind the police barricades because people were like drunk and on vacation and a spectacle was to be had. And so don't you know it, people started placing bets on when the bomb

[M]

would detonate, if it would happen in a goddamn casino. And all these people are, someone is addicted to gambling. And they're like, I'll, I'll bet it's like Kevin during the fire and the.

[Christine]

Oh yes. And guess what? Like they've just been kicked out of the casino. So they got a gamble somewhere. Might as well get money back on the streets and figure out when this bomb's gonna go off. Now this one is a little interactive for you because I'd like you to help me. I'd like you to guess because this is kind of your forte. Local teenagers, including 18 year old Greg Davis and 14 year old Rocky Young set up a stand and sold nine dollar novelty T shirts. T shirts. And I want you to guess any of the phrases that could have been. It's like Lake Tahoe themed tourist T shirts.

[M]

Sure. I was scared there when you said my local in my interest was local teenagers.

[Christine]

Okay. And then I Said it out loud. And I went, oh, two teenage boys. And I said, you're good at this kind of thing. And like saying jokes like a teenager. And I'm like, that's probably rude. I didn't mean it to be rude, but it's like punny, you know, I was very into this part.

[M]

So. Okay, so they started selling novelty T shirts about the experience. And. And there's like catchphrase.

[Christine]

Yeah, there are a couple. So you can kind of guess. Well, actually. And then. So they started it. And then a couple other people started selling shirts. Just, you know, these, like. What do you call them? Entrepreneurs. There's. They see a problem, they see a gap in the market, they're going to jump in.

[M]

It's something like I went to the casino and all I lost was all my money. Or I lost my luck at this casino or something like that. I don't know, something about gambling and more about.

[Christine]

About what's. What's in the building. What is the thing in the building? Because now they. Sorry.

[M]

This place is the bomb.

[Christine]

Okay, you're getting there. Okay, I got bombed at Lake Tahoe.

[M]

Okay.

[Christine]

I had a dynamite time now.

[M]

That one, I'd buy that one.

[Christine]

And then there was one more. Let me see.

[M]

Oh, see, if they. If they. If escape rooms existed, then they would have profited.

[Christine]

Oh, and by the way, these shirts, according to stuff you should know, which I'll never call things you should know ever again, I probably promise stuff you should know did this an episode on this and they said that these shirts cost like 150 on eBay now or something.

[M]

Oh, they still exist.

[Christine]

Still exist.

[M]

Don't you tell me that now that I. Now that rocket money's on my side, I have all this money in my bank account.

[Christine]

Trust me. They're like, we saved you $30 and you're like, perfect. It goes toward my new fund, my new savings account for my new T shirt. Yeah, I got bombed at Lake Tahoe. I had a dynamite time at Lake Tahoe. And then I survived the bomb. Lake Tahoe, August 1980, which I. I think I want that one. That one's cool. Even though I wasn't there.

[M]

And did I like a date on a shirt?

[Christine]

I do too.

[M]

You had to be there.

[Christine]

It feels really cool, especially if you're buying it from ebay, you know, Especially so that's the fun fact that I had to go find because nobody wanted to talk about it.

[M]

Honestly.

[Christine]

I mean, stuff you should know.

[M]

But this is on the ground journalism.

[Christine]

Thank you so much, Em.

[M]

The fact. Okay, I'm not fucking kidding. The fact that you had to go searching for any interesting information. I mean, it's already interesting because it's a bomb. But someone is going to listen to this and now have such a.

[Christine]

It's like, why is it so much

[M]

more interesting of a thing to tell people?

[Christine]

Like, right. Why is the FBI not talking about this?

[M]

Also, who are the shitty journalists who aren't adding in, like, all the best fun?

[Christine]

No, they are. That's the sources I had to go find because nobody else is, like, propagating the correct information.

[M]

I see.

[Christine]

Like, okay, I had to go find about Ricky and whatever his name is because the journalist wrote about it that day. They're like, this is such an exciting day. It's like the World's Fair but for drunken audience. And then, like, instead, the Internet's like. And it was this type of bomb with this many screws. And I was like, okay, like, fine. But I also want to know the T shirt, the. The merch, the souvenirs.

[M]

I. 100.

[Christine]

All right.

[M]

Yes. Souvenirs are my. One of my main concerns always. You know, and especially in true crime when, like, it's usually, like, not classy to actually have souvenirs from anything.

[Christine]

Totally.

[M]

This is a story that they were literally selling souvenirs. I'm allowed to be a little jazzed.

[Christine]

Nobody died. Remember that? Nobody.

[M]

D. You know what? We used to be a proper country when, like, there was a. A story like this that everyone heard about. And all the. All the newspapers are talking about it. All the journalists were like. And then this happened and this and this and this. And nowadays, so many insane things are happening minute by minute that, like, there's just, like, not enough time to report the. The information.

[Christine]

And it's not even as crazy anymore because you're like, it's all fake and made up in crazy town.

[M]

Like, well, if there was. If there was a bomb at a casino, I'd be like. Like, okay. Like, I wouldn't even think about it.

[Christine]

Like, a few. At least it's just a bomb at a casino, not in a preschool. Like, what the. You know, it's like, you can't win nowadays. Yeah, right. This. This.

[M]

This is back when we. When we could all rally together, no matter where we lived, and all hear about that one crazy bomb in that copy printer in that casino over in Vegas. Did you hear about that? And everyone's talking about, oh, Sandra got

[Christine]

a T shirt even though she wasn't there. The lying bitch.

[M]

I saw the date. I know. She was at the office.

[Christine]

Yeah, I didn't get her vacation signed off. Okay, here we go. So they're selling T shirts. People on the side of the road are just like drunk and disorderly, by the way. Everyone's like really upset about that and like at the time. And I'm like, let people just be whatever. People need an outlet. I don't know. People were like, it's so disrespectful. And, and I'm like, nobody died.

[M]

Nobody died. And even in the moments where everyone thought someone was gonna die and it should, it should have freaked everyone out. I can't speak to this, but like people were hammered probably like, like you're in Vegas on vacation at a casino. Like someone is not in their right mind in the moment.

[Christine]

And like a, a once in a lifetime thing is unfolding, right? And you're with like presumably your friends or your whoever and you're just, you're

[M]

at least gonna be gawking. I mean, let's not forget. I, I think about it like once, Kentucky Mammoth Cave, where someone was stuck in there and everyone started throwing a

[Christine]

watch party thinking about that and selling

[M]

merch, and selling merch.

[Christine]

And he died.

[M]

And one person died, but that was still like that one person underground was horrified and everyone was just up there going, woo. Hopefully we see you.

[Christine]

Yeah, I can't wait to tell Aunt Margaret about this. It's like, what the fuck?

[M]

Yeah. And then, and then he did die. And then think like. And then the party at some point took a dark turn.

[Christine]

They were selling hot dogs. Dogs.

[M]

Yeah. It's, this is like, even if it's a little unethical, the, the people find ways to, to gather.

[Christine]

I suppose it's a very human response and that's why I feel like we shouldn't just like immediately be like, how disrespectful. It's like, listen, they just got this scared out of them. They almost died by the way. Like all their stuff is still in the hotel. They're here for a vacation now there's a bomb. And like you're probably slap happy and drunk and like, what the is going on? It's 6:30 in the. Well, maybe nearby. Not drunk, but some people are drunk. 6:30 in the morning. As the day unfolds, people are getting drunker and selling T shirts. I mean, I think of course that's what happened.

[M]

I would, I don't know if I condone it, but I, I, I, I can see it. Of course. Yeah.

[Christine]

So after more than 30 hours of analyzing the Device experts heard an internal whirring sound in the machine.

[M]

Was it on a timer? And now it's going off?

[Christine]

I don't know. But they did determine at this point that they needed to do something and, and they determined that manual diffusal was impossible like the letter said. So what they decided to do on August 27th at 3:46pm the bomb with all these people on the streets, drunk and watching, they decided, the bomb squad, they decided to attempt to render the device safe by. So what they did was they tried to detonate. You know what, it's like a controlled explosion. Like they want, wanted to just sever the connection to the other dynamite. And so they tried to just detonate a piece of it like the, and, and sever the circuitry box so it wouldn't set off the rest of the dynamite. Obviously this is above my pay grade, but in other words, they tried to do like a smaller controlled detonation.

[M]

I imagine like put like a Wiley coyote would take a piece of dynamite and like stick it under like a cardboard box and it would just explode in the box.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like poof. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[M]

They just wanted to cover it up and, and contain it. Yeah.

[Christine]

It didn't work.

[M]

Oh.

[Christine]

The bomb's creator had anticipated that they would try to do this and had actually hidden and packed additional dynamite into the top of the box Sinister, which then triggered the detonation of the main payload and blew a five story crater into the side of Harvey's casino. Okay. It destroyed the building, Destroyed the casino floor. Caused an estimated $18 million in damages in 1980.

[M]

And what floor was this? Because not to like get super dark here, but I'm thinking about 911 and like did like the tower collapse or

[Christine]

like it did not collapse. It went upstairs into. I believe it was one of the upper because they did take a service elevator. But I don't think it was like the way top of the building. I'm not sure. But it did own. Only, I mean only it destroyed the casino floor. So I'm assuming. And then it also created like a crater of four stories, so I'm assuming the casino floor plus the four stories above that.

[M]

So somewhere and somehow the foundation staged.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. It didn't like fully crumble to the ground like a wrecking ball, but it did, it did get pretty, pretty well destroyed.

[M]

Okay.

[Christine]

No one miraculously, no one was injured.

[M]

But imagine the drunk people buying their shirts outside.

[Christine]

They go, oh no. Everybody started cheering and screaming like it

[M]

was like a party oh, they had to be drunk. There's no way that that happens. And everyone.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

The only way you're not taking that seriously is if you're drunk.

[Christine]

Okay. But no. So like I thought the same thing, but then I was like, no. If I were there and the adrenaline is high and like a building just explodes clothes and everyone survived and screaming and we all survived and I don't know, I think I would just animalistically be like woohoo. I don't know. I think it's just like a primal instinct. Maybe I'm just a freak, I don't know. But I'd be like, I think, I

[M]

think there's no right answer. When you're witnessing a bomb, it's not

[Christine]

like oh yay, I'm so thrilled that I just watched this building get exploded.

[M]

But like it's like a whoo.

[Christine]

Yeah. And it's like a what the is going on? Life is crazy. You know, More like that. And thank God they got us out of there, right? Like jeez. So the explosion blew a five story crater into the side of the building, destroying the casino floor and causing an estimated $18 million in damages. Though thankfully no one was injured. Following the explosion, investigators found a crucial clue when examining a June 1980 dynamite blast that destroyed a different part of the town. It was wooden trust dry Creek bridge in Fresno, California. And they determined that the similarities between the in that the aftermath they found like a bombed out area. And they recognized that that was probably the same type of bomb. And because it was so specific they were like this must have been a test area where he was testing his bomb. And then interesting, you know, created the new one. Another major break came from Nancy Domenico, the owner of the Balajo Motel, who had seen these three men at her hotel and or mo, I don't know, is one it motel had seen them at the motel and found them so suspicious that she actually recorded their license plate for future reference. So agents traced the van's license plate to a man named John Burgess Jr. And it uncovered that there had been a speeding ticket that verified the presence of his vehicle and his presence in the area during the extortion timeline. Which is so stupid that you got a speeding ticket ticket to place you in the area on the day of your bomb.

[M]

It's not like the first thing the first time it's ever happened, but I always love when it's just like something so random and it's so dumb.

[Christine]

It's like something you can prevent. Right? Like, and you, you.

[M]

Yeah, you think if you're on the Lamb currently, like, you're gonna be on your best behavior.

[Christine]

And I know it's probably adrenaline, and you're just, like, speeding and you're just trying. So, like, I. I get that. But, like, yeah, it's so stupid. You gotta plan for that, man. Like, you've got to be careful if you're gonna escape the law. You gotta be careful, folks.

[M]

Yeah. And that's. I've always said that.

[Christine]

You have always said that. So. What a dumbass. But. So they. They go to John Burgess Senior, and they. Which is the father, who had been connected to this address as well, and ask him about. And he goes, oh, I don't know. That's my son's car. So, like, immediately throws his son under. Under the bus. And his son is the. Is junior, and he's the one who got the speeding ticket. The FBI also tracked down hospital records for this guy's girlfriend, Ella Joan Williams, who received treatment for a head wound she had sustained on the night of the botched ransom drop.

[M]

Oh.

[Christine]

Despite placing the suspects under surveillance, they couldn't really get enough evidence until that former girlfriend told her new boyfriend about the police plot. And he called the FBI for the reward money and was like, hey, my girlfriend said her ex tried to bomb this casino. Now, can I have my reward money, please?

[M]

See, you can't. You can't go tell him.

[Christine]

You can't go yapping. It's not going to work. On August 14, 1981, federal agents brought in John Jr. And his brother Jim to interrogate them, knowing that their father was the one who kind of was the mastermind behind this whole plot.

[M]

Sure.

[Christine]

The brothers confessed to the plot and identified their father, John Burgess Senior. A former millionaire, successful businessman. I believe he had inherited a business. I don't totally remember. He was a restaurant owner, and he also had a gambling addiction.

[M]

Whoopsies. Okay.

[Christine]

He had lost an estimated $800,000 at Harvey's Casino alone. Phone.

[M]

Yeah, that'll do it.

[Christine]

There was one that at least it, like, tracks with motive, right?

[M]

100.

[Christine]

There was one anecdote that was told on stuff you should know where this one woman. And I don't know if it was the same girlfriend or a different girlfriend, but had described going to this hotel, and he was explaining, like, I'm such a high roller, and, like, all this stuff, and he was the type of gambler where he sat down and he just couldn't stop, and, like, he would win, and then he would just keep playing until he was. Was out and his girlfriend or whoever. He took this lady at the time, he was so in the red that they kicked him out of the VIP suite they had put him in.

[M]

Oh, wow.

[Christine]

And he was like also embarrassing. Humiliated. Like humiliated. And so all these kind of triggers and then like, hey, this guy was literally in the Luftwaffe and an engineer, mechanical engineer, and had been held in like a Soviet war camp. I mean, you know, property.

[M]

What? Got embarrassed by all. In front of all of his friends, got humiliated.

[Christine]

And a girl that he brought, a woman that he brought. Like, exactly like recipe for disaster. Of course the sons tell the police this. Our father's been abusive our whole lives. He's. He's very coercive. He makes us do things for him. And then of course, like turns around, says, oh, that's my son's car. I. I go talk to him, you know, like, he's just a shitty person and a shitty dad. They explain. They, of course the police look into this guy and they're like, oh my God, this guy. Of course he has a venture data against the casino. He is down. He lost 800 grand and he used to be a millionaire. Now he's like in debt, you know, and has a scambling addiction. It's desperation. The brothers detailed their father's toxic and abusive behavior. They said he frequently physically abused his wife. He used his sons as captive labor. He was the one who coerced them into stealing dynamite from a power plant.

[M]

Jesus.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's crazy. And, and he tried to, he. They went to trial. Of course this guy, John Senior represented himself in court, cuz why not? And because they always do. And when he did that, he actually cross examined his own sons and.

[M]

Oh God, that's torture.

[Christine]

Dark. And it's like, yeah, of course he's abusive. He hits them. He, he's of terribly abusive. And then it's like he cross examined them in court. Like, that's fucking low. You know, like the fear tactic of manipul.

[M]

Like, because you know that you're gonna terrify them into saying whatever.

[Christine]

Like you're just. He just really. He tried to put them on the spot for, for this. Thankfully they were like, no good.

[M]

Okay, good.

[Christine]

Well, they were adults, by the way. Sorry, I should clarify that. They were not like children at this point, to be clear. They were like young adults, I think. So he tried to like shift the blame by cross examining them on the stand and saying that they were the ones who plotted the bomb. Bomb. And it's like you're the one who lost $800,000 why would they be the one creating a bomb? Like, what the. It doesn't even make sense. Investigators also revealed at trial that between the failed Tahoe drop, the. That explosion and his arrest, he had already started working on a second bomb.

[M]

Girl, like, you can't take a break. And also, like, what? Like, where was that one gonna go?

[Christine]

Into the casino? Oh, I assume the same place, but it's like, the building still exploded. So maybe there was a Harris across the street. Maybe he went there, you know, Maybe.

[M]

But also, like, he. If he's that smart, you know, wouldn't he think that once one bomb was out there that he'd be kind of getting looked at or eventually someone would figure it out?

[Christine]

No, he did not think anyone would figure it out.

[M]

He could just be, like, the serial bomber.

[Christine]

Yeah, I guess. Like the Unabomber again. Maybe there's something there in the zeitgeist. I don't know, man. But, yeah, so he. Maybe he's just that desperate. He's like, well, at least the bomb worked. And at least now they know that it works.

[M]

I mean, it does make sense that a gambling addict would be the one who did this, because, like, he's taken a gamble.

[Christine]

That he's taken a gamble. You're right.

[M]

He'll actually wire him the money.

[Christine]

He's, like, pushed up against between a rock and a hard place. Like, what are you gonna do? Like, desperate times, right? And, like, of course, he's already a terrible person, so it's not, like, a far leap to include your kids in this nonsense and then things get out of hand. But the fact that you're building another bomb instead of laying low, like, weeks after or months after is just crazy to me. But whatever. Yeah, okay. So he had planned to carry out yet another extortion attempt. Thankfully, they stopped that. His son Jimmy cooperated with authorities and led the FBI to a dry creek bed where his father had stashed the new dynamite collection.

[M]

I. I love Jimmy. Jimmy.

[Christine]

I know. Jimmy's on top of it. He's.

[M]

Follow me this way.

[Christine]

He's like, I've been waiting for someone to ask me about daddy. Okay, I'm going to show.

[M]

I've been sitting here biting my nails,

[Christine]

waiting for, please let me show you his stash. And he showed him the dynamite stash. It was buried on a dry creek in a dry creek bed. So. John Burgess senior, ultimately was convicted of multiple federal charges. On October 22, 1982, he was sentenced to life in prison without parole, and he died of liver cancer at the age of 74 in 1996, which happened to be exactly 16 years and one day after the bomb detonated at Harvey's Resort. Resort hotel.

[M]

Wow.

[Christine]

The end.

[M]

It's a great story.

[Christine]

Yay. Wasn't that wild?

[M]

Yeah, that's super wild. That an adrenaline spiking.

[Christine]

Yeah, like the. The ticking time bomb, literally. You know, I mean, they hear a worrying mechanism and.

[M]

Oh, yeah, I.

[Christine]

Sounds like a Criminal Minds or a lawn. Not what. What a CSI or something. I don't know any of them.

[M]

I mean, I could see any of them doing the, like, leaning on a copier and then, like, Mariska is like, back up slowly.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Or like, don't move.

[M]

Don't fucking move. Now you're just stuck here. Yeah.

[Christine]

That's terrifying. That's terrifying.

[M]

I'll call Mariska. She'll. She'll do it.

[Christine]

Do you remember that episode that haunts me for the rest of my life? I think it was either House or, er, where like, a thing went through these two people, and through those two people, I will literally never recover from that. And it haunts me regularly, all the time.

[M]

Why would you.

[Christine]

I can't help it. I'm sorry. It's a trauma. It's a trauma response. To wrangle everyone else in the room into it is my. I'm like, hey, remember that?

[M]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Join me, won't you?

[M]

But as I get older, I sound more and more like my mother and her mother before her. Because when. When I hear something like. Like, I'm reminded of that visual, I just go, oh, yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. I do it all the time. And I'm like, oh, she. No. And I'm like, oh, no, I'm my dad.

[M]

Oh, before we go, I'd like to end on, I think, I hope a high, but you had something to say to me earlier about Olive Garden, and then we glazed over that.

[Christine]

Oh. Oh. Oh, my God, you're right. I totally did. I went to Rainforest Cafe for the first time at Disney and it was so fun.

[M]

You're welcome.

[Christine]

I know, it's a great time. Welcome to the Folds. We had a great time. And, like, oh, my God. Leona and I wandered around and I took a little video and I went in the gift shop and, like. Like, it was raining and I had

[M]

some, like, fried shrimp and imagine it's the 90s and you're four.

[Christine]

Well, so I did. Because I did imagine that because I was imagining thunderstorm hell. Yeah. And Leona, like, we were like, don't worry, it's not real. And Then she plugged her ears and then she took them off and she's like, it's not even that scary. And we were like, yay.

[M]

Well, you know what? I think it's because a bunch of

[Christine]

four year olds, I think they toned it way, way down.

[M]

It used to be like, like you couldn't speak through it. Like it was loud. I will say the lightning was every super dark.

[Christine]

Like it was a little alarming because the lights just all went out and then it was like flash, you know, and so it was like a little alarming. But no, it used to be. We also like talked. Both of the. Her. Should we talk to her and her cousin were like, let's just pretend it's gonna. And so they were like very prepared for the. For them monsoon. But yeah, we had a wonderful time. Time. And it was so bad. Yeah, it was great. It was great. And I. When you said Olive Garden, I was like, wait, I have a fast casual or not fast casual, a family style casual, whatever the you want to call it, theme restaurant also that I went to. But you went to Olive Garden, which I did. We were talking about that.

[M]

We were talking about that before we recorded that. I said like, oh, I went, I have acid reflux from Olive Garden today. And then you said, I have to talk about it.

[Christine]

I said, I have to tell you something.

[M]

Later, when the camera see. Did you see the bar stools that look like animal butts with the tails?

[Christine]

Oh, oh. Oh, my God. If only I had had the patience to wait for people to stand up so I could take pictures on those. But.

[M]

And you know what really grinds my goddamn gears?

[Christine]

You tell me.

[M]

I know I've told you this before, but there is. There's only one Rainforest Cafe in the world that also is a water ride. You know about this?

[Christine]

No, no, no.

[M]

Oh, okay. So last time we had a show in Texas. It's in Grapevine, Texas, I think. I think it's. It's somewhere that's like not a city we went to. It's like an hour away. But as soon as I remembered it was there, I got in my rental car and I folded. But it's a Rainforest Cafe. And next to the bathrooms there's this like little tunnel. And you go down the tunnel and all of a sudden there's a literal water like theme, like an amusement ride, like an attraction action.

[Christine]

And it. You. I have a video actually log riders. Like you have a bathing suit like

[M]

you're sitting in like, oh, you don't get wet. But it's you're in like a river ride where you're sitting in one of those. It's essentially like the log flume rides at the amusement park, but it's a circle and like, you're all sitting in a circle together.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, I love those.

[M]

And you go through, like, you see the giraffes and the monkeys and the elephants and there's music playing.

[Christine]

Wait, now that's fun.

[M]

Oh, I'm like, why is there only one of these?

[Christine]

No, that they have to do it all. All of them.

[M]

The thing that grinds my gears here. Listen closely, everybody, especially anyone at Rainforest Cafe Water park specific corporate. Not a goddamn shirt, not a pin, not a button.

[Christine]

Sorry I woke you up.

[M]

Oh, no, Nothing that says I rode the world's only reinforced cafe water ride.

[Christine]

Hey, M. I have one thing to say to you.

[M]

Sick. Someone naked.

[Christine]

Be the change you wish to see in the the world.

[M]

You. You have a Cricut machine and an Etsy account.

[Christine]

That's right.

[M]

I don't know what we're doing here,

[Christine]

but I didn't survive the ride.

[M]

I really hope if someone makes me sure.

[Christine]

Stolen valor.

[M]

If I do it, I survived.

[Christine]

I'll make you one. I'll make you a shirt.

[M]

I'll look up the date that I did so that you can put a date on the show.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. I'll write like August 1980. I'll say I got bombed at the Rainforest Cafe. Wait a minute.

[M]

I'll put. I'll find the video and I'll put it in in our group chat so can put that out for everybody because of course I filmed it and thank God. Well, I think I'm the only person on earth who was jazzed about it because I went down there. I was the only person on the ride, by the way.

[Christine]

That's crazy.

[M]

And the person who, like, worked was running the ride. She could tell I was like, a little too excited about this. And she let me do the ride like five times.

[Christine]

Oh, hell yeah.

[M]

And I didn't see a single soul the entire time. It was just me in a rainforest in the river.

[Christine]

I mean, it's like, it's like great, but also, also like, what the hell people, they're going to close it if nobody's doing it.

[M]

I was like, I, there are children in this restaurant. Why isn't anyone doing this right now?

[Christine]

Because if you're going to pay for that, it's probably expensive to have.

[M]

It was like a dollar.

[Christine]

No, I mean, but. Oh, yeah. So like, to have this running like it's an expense for the restaurant. Like, come on, people.

[M]

Yeah. I don't know what was going on. I was. I was. It had. The whole thing felt like a fever dream. And then also if, like when I was writing it, like one of. One of the times I looked up at the ceiling, which I should have not done because then I just remembered I was like, in a warehouse.

[Christine]

There's just like D hanging from those rafters. Oh, can I tell you a secret? Cuz my brother doesn't listen to this podcast.

[M]

Tell me.

[Christine]

So don't tell him everybody. But there is a ride at Kings island that I'm sure I've talked about called Boo Blasters growing up. And it was like.

[M]

Yes, Scooby Doo one.

[Christine]

Yeah, the Scooby Doo one. Because we both had Paramount or. Right. We both have Param.

[M]

You had Kings Island, I had Kings Dominion.

[Christine]

That's right.

[M]

Yeah. They were both Paramount.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there was a. And it was our favorite ride. We loved it. And it's. They just closed it and they're auctioning off all the people pieces.

[M]

You have to get something.

[Christine]

I'm getting my brother. Well, I'm hoping to, but I'm gonna. I have like a timer on and everything. And they have like a hundred different items on there of just like random. Like they have the scoreboard, they have. Oh, shut the. All the like coffin. The glow in the dark. Like, like heads that pop out of stuff. I mean, I'll send you the link because it's crazy.

[M]

Please send me the link. Just. Just a peruse.

[Christine]

And the auction starts in a few days. So I'm like, I have a timer set, but there's one that's like. Because a lot of them are huge. And I'm like, my brother cannot fit like this giant coffin in his apartment. And I don't expect him to, but they had one small one which is called. It's called a friend in the kitchen or something. And it's a little rat and he's like crawling into like a thing and he has like the little target where you're supposed to shoot at him and he's like kind of hissing and I'm like, I want to get him. That little rat guy from the auction. I don't know how much these things kind of auction for. I. No clue. I have no clue.

[M]

Either shockingly higher or shocking.

[Christine]

That's exactly what I'm expecting.

[M]

If there's a King's Dominion, for some reason, ours shut down a long time ago. But if something happens to Be Kings dominion on there.

[Christine]

Please let me send you the link because I don't know that. Because it's for the whole. The whole like, whatever overarching thing that is. And they have, I think, like, they might have other auctions on there too.

[M]

So that's so fun.

[Christine]

So let me send you that. But anyway, so that's the fun fact.

[M]

Fact about I'll go find my. My Rainforest Cafe ride because obviously I filmed it for everybody.

[Christine]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[M]

We can post that. And I'm not kidding. I really need a shirt. If anybody can handle that for me, that would be super great.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[M]

It's called the River Adventure. That's what it's called, the Rainforest Cafe River Adventure. I survived the Rainforest Cafe River Adventure.

[Christine]

Okay, this says Boo Blasters. Everything must ghoul.

[M]

I can't breathe.

[Christine]

I know, I know, I know, I know.

[M]

Oh, I'm simply just so joyous today. And on a Friday the 13th. It's a good day.

[Christine]

It is a good day. But folks, don't go out there and ruin my time trying to get this rat. Please don't.

[M]

Yeah, no. Everybody rally together, please.

[Christine]

Let's rally together. It's gonna be. If everyone wants to just bid on these random dusty ass things from Kings island, like, wow. I know. Everyone's gonna be scrambling to get.

[M]

You know, it'd be precious, though, is if someone else bought it just to send to Xandy so you didn't have to do it.

[Christine]

Yeah, but see, I thought about that, but then I was like, then we'd both be driving the price higher and higher there. And it's like, who needs that? Nobody needs it.

[M]

There was a Kardashians episode like that where both of them were betting on the same dress. And then it like, they were. It was very expensive.

[Christine]

Oh. Because they were. Oh, my God.

[M]

They didn't realize they were both trying to get it because it was like their dream dress.

[Christine]

And the other person, the producers are like, teehee. And it's like, ah.

[M]

Well, they were trying to do a nice thing because one of the sisters was doing it, like, for the other sister because she knew she would love it.

[Christine]

Yes.

[M]

And the other one was just like, this other won't stop this taking my dress.

[Christine]

That's actually a very good, like, conceit for a show. Yeah, yeah. I'm sending you one specific one that's, like, so funny. But like, they're. They're just wild and they're so janky because they're just like they said, we're selling them as is. We just cut all the clip all the cables and put them in a warehouse.

[M]

Oh. Oh, wow. Oh, I'm so excited to look through this.

[Christine]

And they have the signs, like, exit and, like, no beverages on this attraction.

[M]

And, I mean, that little log, that, like, the lot. Yeah, that little log. I mean, that could be my Flamingo Scroll. It could just be the ghosts just telling everybody.

[Christine]

What.

[M]

What's going on?

[Christine]

Omg. Well, if you want anything, I'm gonna pick it. I'm hopefully gonna pick up my little friend in the kitchen. My little rat. And so if you want anything, I'll pick yours up too.

[M]

I appreciate it.

[Christine]

But look, they have these, like, portraits. Like, portraits of the people you're supposed to.

[M]

I love this.

[Christine]

And they all have, like, names which, like, you wouldn't know when you do the ride, but they all have, like. Like, hyper spec. Oh, here's. Oh, his name is Kitchen Visitor.

[M]

Kitchen Visitor.

[Christine]

He's like a little rat.

[M]

You simply must.

[Christine]

I know, right? And he has, like, a little target. And he's like. Oh, he's so cute. So I'm gonna try to get him anyway.

[M]

I can't wait. Okay, well, good luck.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[M]

On your auctions.

[Christine]

It opens in four days.

[M]

Well, okay. I will see. And everyone, thank you for listening to this very long episode, but happy Friday 13th.

[Christine]

Happy Friday. And that's why we drink.

[M]

It's tax season, and at LifeLock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now, here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it, guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply.