E478 Yesterday's Mail and Salad Days

Summary

And That's Why We Drink

Episode 478: Yesterday's Mail and Salad Days

Release Date: April 12, 2026
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

---

Overview

This episode is quintessential "And That's Why We Drink": a vibrant mix of quirky personal stories, deep dives into the weird corners of American history, and a sprinkle of haunting and true crime. Christine and Em kick things off discussing creative hobbies, bizarre clothing quests, and family updates before diving into the eerie and opulent history of the Old Washoe Club in Nevada—a place where Gilded Age luxury, mining industry drama, and ghosts merge. The episode closes with Christine’s lighter true crime segment, centered on the bizarre tale of a prolific con artist who posed as a Saudi prince to defraud Miami’s elite, with only a tiny Chihuahua as a true companion. Throughout, they sprinkle personal anecdotes and lively banter, with the trademark blend of humor, curiosity, and self-deprecating candor.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Updates & “Why We Drink” (04:47-22:20)

• Christine’s Week
  • Shares her passion for watercolor painting after a rejuvenating bachelorette party, crediting crafts for helping manage her ADHD and stress (09:00).
• Em’s Updates
  • Celebrates hitting a milestone in ASL class (500 signs!).
  • Describes their first accidental ASL conversation and the joy of learning a new skill (11:52).
• Random Tangents
  • Discuss the transition from toddler to kindergarten parenting milestones, their distaste for kneecaps, and the “kneecap fairy” (07:23).
  • Playful banter about obscure T-shirt collecting – specifically Em’s deep-dive into Knott’s Berry Farm “vegetable shirts”—and the thrill/challenge of manifesting strange desires (14:10; 18:32).
• Notable Quote

  “I feel like we got to do something important… Now what do I manifest, like world fudgeing peace?”
  — Christine (19:19)

2. The Knott’s Berry Farm & Boysenberry Festival Adventure (24:06-27:45)

• Em’s Festival Recap
  • Details the food gauntlet at the Boysenberry Festival—highlights include boysenberry ice cream, sriracha chicken wings, lemonade, and a “brick” of brioche with ice cream.
• Theme & Community
  • Describes the joy of matching the vibe (wearing purple/asparagus shirts) as the festival crowd rallies around all things boysenberry.
• Banter
  • Christine is both impressed and weirded out by “food that looks like other food” (boysenberry sushi).

3. Creativity, Qigong, and Self-Improvement (19:56-22:50)

• Christine’s “Zen but Chaotic” Vibe
  • Links newfound creative hobbies and qigong classes to her relaxed—and slightly unfiltered—demeanor.
  • Describes a hilariously awkward scene with her mom using a velvet “patting stick” in qigong, and her appreciation for joyful neighbors, including a Reiki practitioner named Troy.

4. Deep Dive: The Old Washoe Club, Virginia City, Nevada (32:10–69:46)

Research Theme:
The Washoe Club’s story is a whirlwind of 1870s “salad days,” Gilded Age excess, and paranormal legacy.

Historical Segment

• Founding & Membership
  • Established in 1875, meant as a social escape for silver mining elites: bankers, judges, tycoons, even Mark Twain and Thomas Edison were members (33:56).
  • Nicknamed the “Millionaires Club”; exclusive ($4,500+ membership in today’s money).
  • Lavishly decorated with Italian marble, bronze, and a spiral staircase soon made famous by Ripley’s as the “longest unsupported spiral staircase” (43:16).
• Cycle of Opulence, Disaster, and Rebirth
  • Original club burned in “the great fire”; reborn atop a saloon (Crystal Bar) famous for its speakeasy, secret passages, and colorful clientele.
  • Reading room, music room shaped like a grand piano, and a telegraph for up-to-the-minute (19th-century!) stock market info (44:44).

Paranormal Segment

• Death, Ghosts & Dark Energy (52:08)

  • Served as a temporary morgue (“the crypt”) for nearly 100 bodies—smells of death reportedly linger.
  • Bartender tales: spectral pebbles, physical aggression, and “Randall the Creepy Crawler”:

    “Randall, our creepy crawler, grabbed me by the ankle in there.”
    — Anonymous bartender (55:15)

  • Ghosts include:
    • Scotty: A bartender who died by suicide after mining tragedy; said to be unfriendly to women.
    • Children: Gretchen (hit by carriage; giggles, grabs hands), Pete (yanks on purses), Ella (died in mine explosion; her doll moves on its own).
    • Lena, the Lady in Blue: Possibly murdered mistress or sex worker; shadow figure in hat (the “killer”) also reported.
  • Red Room: intense reports of scratches, sulfur smells, demonic energy, and a reputation as the “most haunted room” (66:17).

• Haunted Bar & Ghostly Rituals

  • Bar is still open, serving themed cocktails (“Blue Lady,” “Flaming Orb”).
  • “Prospector” ghost: steals bourbon shots, knocks stools over, and reportedly protects staff, especially from rude patrons.
  • The piano-shaped music room: site of ragtime music and a rocking porcelain doll (65:45).
  • Frequent paranormal phenomena: footsteps, cigar smoke, moving orbs, objects thrown, and unexplained music.

• Zach Bagans Lore

  • Em’s rabbit-hole research now involves multiple Ghost Adventures episodes filmed at the Washoe Club; Zach’s lore is inescapable ("he has power over you and me," Christine at 30:51).

• Notable Quotes:

  “The mining days of yore, they needed luxury spaces… and finally for once, I’m going to be saying something other than they needed a hotel for these businessmen. Instead they needed a social club for the high elites.”
  — Em (32:40)

  “A spiral staircase. He loves the spiral staircase. People still love it. And I will say, fun facts about the spiral staircase are that apparently it had some second door to it that led to the other side of the street so they could sneakily let ladies of the night come in.” — Em (43:05)

---

5. True Crime Story: The Fake Sultan - The Prince of Fraud (73:04–109:25)

Topic: The wild saga of Anthony Zinyak, who, under the persona of “Prince Khalid bin Al Saud,” scammed Miami’s rich and famous—armed with fake credentials, a Ferrari, diplomatic plates, and a chihuahua named Foxy.

Main Story Beats:

• High Society Invasion

  • “Prince Khalid” rents a $18,500/month penthouse on Fisher Island—billionaire territory—arriving with security, Gucci fur slippers, and honorifics (“His Highness”) (75:38).
  • Foxy the chihuahua becomes a local icon: Cadillac-shaped dog bed, diamond necklace, pink piano.

• The Long Con

  • Poses as an oil-rich Saudi royal, using forged Bank of Dubai letters as “proof” of $600 million in accessible funds.
  • Offers Miami billionaire Jeff Soffer a $440 million investment; accepts hundreds of thousands in luxury gifts in negotiating (“It’s customary where I’m from to give gifts in business dealings.”—97:14).
  • Red flags: claims devout Islam but loves pork; only rents one unit but claims to own the building.

• History of Fraud

  • Zinyak (real name: Anthony Zinyak, born Jose Moreno in Colombia):
    • Orphaned, adopted by Michigan family.
    • Early survival experience led to obsessive con artistry; first pretended to be a Saudi prince at age 12 (89:07).
    • Notorious for exploiting credit cards, staying in lavish hotels, running up tabs under fake royals’ names (93:32).
    • Multiple arrests; after 15 years in prison, reemerged under slightly new ruses.

• Downfall

  • Soffer’s team wises up after “Prince Khalid” draws too much attention with outrageous stories and tantrums.
  • FBI intercepts Zinyak at JFK; he continues faking Arabic and inventing “spy codes” in interrogation ("He uses codes like Zulu, red, echo, 33 that mean nothing..."—104:40).
  • Soft spot: Foxy (“Your dog Foxy, we have someone who’s going to take a look at her.” Zinyak breaks down—106:30).

• Conviction

  • 2019: Pleads guilty to wire fraud and impersonating a diplomat; sentenced to over 18 years and ordered to pay $7 million in restitution—unlikely to ever be paid.

• Memorable Quotes:

  “It was suggested, it was implied to people that when they address him, they use honorifics like your highness.”
  — Christine (77:03)

  “He just is so self-assured, very con artist… people just believed him without even considering he might be lying.”
  — Christine (84:34)

  “Your dog Foxy, we have someone who’s going to take a look at her.”
  — FBI agent (as recounted by Christine, 106:30)

---

Notable Moments & Quotes

• On Ghostly Encounters

  “Randall, our creepy crawler, grabbed me by the ankle in there.”
  — Anonymous bartender (55:15)

• On “Manifesting” Weirdness

  “I feel like we got to do something important. No offense again… Now what do I manifest, like world fudgeing peace?”
  — Christine (19:19)

• Summing Up Ghost Investigations

  “Zach Baggins is polluting my normal life.”
  — Em (69:21)

• On the Con Man’s Furry Companion

  “Foxy lived a life of luxury… wore a diamond encrusted necklace that looked like Elizabeth Taylor’s jewelry, and slept in a Cadillac-shaped bed.”
  — Christine (80:39)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:47 – Learning ASL, parenting tangents, and milestone celebrations
• 09:00 – Christine on crafts as self-care
• 14:10 – Em’s Knott’s Berry Farm vintage T-shirt quest
• 19:56 – Christine’s “Zen” phase and qigong adventure
• 24:06 – Boysenberry Festival food rundown
• 32:10 – The Old Washoe Club history
• 43:16 – Spiral staircase, speakeasy, and extravagant décor
• 52:08 – The ghostly “crypt” and pre-morgue stories
• 55:15 – “Randall the Creepy Crawler” ghost account
• 61:17 – Lady in blue & shadow figure lore
• 66:17 – The sinister “Red Room”
• 73:04 – The Prince of Fraud story introduction
• 75:38 – Life on Fisher Island; Foxy the dog
• 89:07 – Con-artist childhood: first scams at age 12
• 97:14 – Red flags & the unraveling of Zinyak’s identity
• 106:30 – FBI confrontation: the soft spot for Foxy, his dog
• 109:25 – Christine’s closing thoughts

---

Tone & Language

• Conversational, humorous, and often self-deprecating (“I just bullied your clothes, your shirts, your many shirts…” – Christine, 29:08).
• Freely switching from playful banter to curiosity-driven deep-dives and poignant reflection (“I feel like this is just lifetime trauma, spinning into something and it works and he just runs with it” – Em, 87:38).
• Memorable pop culture references (e.g., “Take a door and realize it”—Jersey Shore callback, 55:30; “Why do you sound like Zach Baggins?” – Christine, 17:24).

---

Summary

This episode delivers a lively blend of personal anecdotes (crafting, festival adventures, sign language progress), hilarious tangents (T-shirt obsessions, qigong, and “kneecap fairies”), and the podcast’s true core: fascinatingly haunted and criminally bizarre tales. Em’s Washoe Club deep dive uncovers not just Gilded Age decadence and a web of spirits and sorrow, but also a quirky parade of secret doors, haunted dolls, and gambling ghosts. Christine’s enthralling “fake prince” saga flips the true-crime script into a flamboyant, real-life “Catch Me If You Can,” proving just how far con artistry—and the power of a tiny dog—can go in the world’s wealthiest zip codes.

In one sentence:
Yesterday’s mail is haunted, today’s salad days are shady—and in between are crafts, cocktails, ghosts, and the world’s boldest scam artists (and why we drink).

Transcript

[Christine]

Let us tell you about the online cannabis company that's revolutionizing how we deal with life's many challenges. From sleepless nights to stress filled days. Everything in between the existential crises too. Mood.com has created an entire line of functional gummies and functional flower crafted for your ideal mood. Made with 100 federally legal THC, they deliver them to your doorstep discreetly. It's not like it says, hey, we're federally legal thc. It's just like, oh, here's a package for you. Have a nice day. And you're like, I know what's in here.

[M]

And the best part, by the way is you can get 20% off your first [e-mail] with promo code drink. So not only is it going to be delivered to your door, it's a secret and you get a discount.

[Christine]

Immune support, Menopause relief. I've taken those. They I find them to be incredibly effective. Even sexual arousal. I'm going to plead the fifth on that one. Each one is crafted using federally legal cannabis grown on small family owned farms. You can feel good about buying this. It's not some sketchy retailer online.

[M]

Best of all, not only does Mood stand behind everything with an industry leading 100 day satisfaction guarantee, but as we mentioned, listeners get 20% off their first order with code DRINK. So head to mood.com and browse their amazing selection of functional gummies and find the perfect gummy for whatever you're dealing with. And remember to use promo code drink at checkout to save 20% on your first order.

[Christine]

K Pop Demon Hunters, Haja Boy's Breakfast meal and Hunt Trick's meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[M]

It is an honor to share.

[Christine]

No, it's our honor.

[M]

It is our larger honor. No, really, stop.

[Christine]

You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side

[M]

and participate in McDonald's while supplies last. Joyrise is a modern wellness brand built for real life. The products are simple, purposeful and easy to use. So you can support your body without turning wellness into a full time job. You know me, I do not want to do that. Cristine, I know you've used Joyrise. Joyrise is the alcohol metabolizing aid. It is designed for those nights when you want to hang better and own tomorrow. Have you hung better and owned tomorrow?

[Christine]

I've owned all the days. I'm ready for this endorsement. So I went to a bachelorette party recently. Talk about what, like a good little party favor to bring with you, right? Joy Rise was perfect. There are these little pouches. I took, like, a few with me. What you do, it's so easy, even a bunch of women can do it, can figure it out. I know. Shocking, right?

[M]

Well, at a bachelorette party, it is amazing that when they.

[Christine]

True. It was a lot of stuff going on. We were busy talking about, like, our trauma and cptsd. And so therefore, you know, we need. We didn't need a complex wellness routine. Like you said earlier, M. It's simple. One step after drinks, no complicated protocol. You. You just set it and forget it. You know, you travel with it. You hand them out. Everyone's like, hell, yeah, that's awesome. You feel great. The next day.

[M]

It's time to own Tomorrow with Joy Rise, our listeners get 15% off their first order. When you use the code [e-mail], that's

[Christine]

15 off your first order at J-O-Y-R-I-S-E.com promo code drink at checkout. Hey, everyone. Christine here, popping in real quick with my tail between my legs to apologize yet again. I've done this thing where I write all the notes for part two, and then in my head, I've told the story because I was so invested in the notes, and I've told part one that I forget to actually do part two. What happened this time is Dorothy Arnold, Part one happened. We had a recording scheduled. Em got sick. We moved to Friday. And with that Friday shift, I jumped ahead with my notes without thinking, and I skipped Tuesday's notes. And I'm so sorry, because as a listener, that has got to be infuriating and frustrating to be jumping right to the next part two and be like, wait, are they just, like, punky me? Did they forget all that to say I apologize. I'm embarrassed. I feel really space, Casey. And, you know, I don't wanna. I don't wanna keep making excuses, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna just apologize and say, we're gonna. We're gonna do this next week. Let's get me out of here. Let's get the vaudeville cane and pull me off stage. So lots of love to everybody out there. I'm. I'm sorry again. No, no good excuse. Just. Just an explanation and an apology. All right? Love you all so much. And Dorothy will be back with us next week. Okay?

[M]

I know we Added it up in our class and we now officially know 500 words and sign. That's killer.

[Christine]

Kick ass. That's my dream. That's so cool.

[M]

Bra is actually kind of boring. It's just bam.

[Christine]

Bam.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, I mean, but I like that. Like, I feel like I'll remember that.

[M]

Yeah. You know, it's underwear, which is interesting.

[Christine]

Oh. What? Oh, God.

[M]

On the chin.

[Christine]

I wonder why that is.

[M]

Yeah. What's going on there?

[Christine]

What's going on there?

[M]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Christine]

Maybe that means

[M]

I. Yeah, I thought the same thing.

[Christine]

Oh, I forgot this is an audio medium. You're right.

[M]

Luckily, people who don't have eyes or use them for our episode is.

[Christine]

I know, I know, I know. What a smart thing we did. We said, what should our intro about our on our podcast be today? How about we do sign language? That'll work. That'll be really fun to listen. Listen to probably.

[M]

Oh, no. And.

[Christine]

But I am impressed. I like, I really. That's one of my like life interests, I think, down the line to learn sign language. Oh, sorry about this. Not bra. And this thing that we did with our weird chin beard. But you know, other than that, I'm really impressed.

[M]

Well, thank you. I also, I've wanted to do it for a long time and every person I said in front of, I was like, oh, I'm gonna take a sign language class. You're like, oh, I've always thought about doing that.

[Christine]

And I'm like, yeah, it's like one of those I feel almost universal things maybe.

[M]

Yeah, well, that's.

[Christine]

I actually did it.

[M]

I'm now in my sign language class with three different friends. And it was all because every single person I said, oh, I'm going to take this class. They're like, oh, I've always wanted to. And I'm like, well, if you do it with me, then we can be practice buddies.

[Christine]

So good. And you said you learned 500 words.

[M]

Now I'm so far learned 500 words and it's halfway through the program. So I guess by the end I'll know a thousand words.

[Christine]

Awesome.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

You know more once you start, like maybe it. I don't know how it works.

[M]

I don't know how it works either, but I think that makes me like milestone wise, like a two year old or something. What's a thousand words?

[Christine]

No, you know, when it's like, oh,

[M]

well, they're supposed to know this many.

[Christine]

The second I no longer had a two year old, like the information that like felt like so urgent and like front of mind and like pressing just evaporated. It was incredible. It was like today my friend said like, oh, she like my baby rolled over on her stomach. And I'm like, is that good or bad? Like, I don't know, like I know how old the baby is, but I'm like, are they supposed to do that in bed or is that like later? Like, I feel like you just lose the concept of like. I mean, maybe it's just me. Maybe I just was like traumatized out of it.

[M]

Or maybe you're like, you're back to being people. Like like a two year old free person again.

[Christine]

And I'm like, no, I think that's more what it is. Like it feels like, oh, I'm in the four year old game now, people. If we want to talk light up shoes and like all that, I'm ready. But what's the next milestone for a 5 year old?

[M]

Like kneecaps or something or kneecaps.

[Christine]

Yeah, we're. We're waiting for her kneecaps to come in.

[M]

We're going to have a kneecap ferry.

[Christine]

Huge party. There should not be. Because the concept of kneecaps has always freaked me out so unbelievably, terribly. I just don't like to think about them running loosey goosey floating in there.

[M]

I know they're little noodle legs.

[Christine]

I want to die about that. That makes me feel really bad. So no, we're not doing that. But maybe milestone, I don't know, kindergarten. I don't know. I mean she can write her name and all that good stuff and she can write all her letters and I'm just, you know, she's just. I'm just very proud of her.

[M]

That's awesome.

[Christine]

I love her so much.

[M]

It's very cute.

[Christine]

She and I have been doing a lot of crafting together.

[M]

What's your favorite craft you've done? Because you've mentioned the crafting a few times now. So I got enough.

[Christine]

We've started.

[M]

Did you bring show and tell?

[Christine]

Well, I actually am. I wasn't even gonna show and tell it, but I was coloring because your audio and camera weren't working. So I was coloring before and I was like. And I just forgot that this was on my lap. I'm trying to show it. Beautiful. Well, we've just been color doing watercolor. I went. This is why I drink this week. Real quick. I'll pop it in. Because I went to a really fun bachelorette party just for one night. It was Jerry from Ladies and tangents. It was super cool because I came on the night where everybody was inside and nobody was going anywhere, and I was like, thank God. And so we did. It was like, bring your Roman Empire presentation. Like, what's your Roman Empire? Right? And so mine was Mall World. Jerry's sister did a really fun one, which was, like, the astrology of this weekend. And it was, like, predictions. Like, she had done it in the past. And I was like, oh, that's so clever. So there were a lot of fun ones, I would say, like, if you've already had a bachelorette party and, like, I know I have. And, like, we've kind of. The party scene, like, it was so great and fun and awesome. And they went out the night before and went, like, hard. So don't get me wrong. But I think, like, getting there and seeing just this beautiful cabin with, like, all this food and, like, clearly all these, like, nurturing, caring people who brought, like, so much food and drink, and everybody contributed. I mean, I brought my fucking alcohol recovery things, but my contribution. But, like, you know, everyone brought, like, tarot cards or whatever, and they were, like, little crafts and stuff, and they had this cool runner across the table. And Jerry's co host on For Better and Worse podcast, by the way, Shout Out. They're on our network now, too. She set the whole thing up, and she put this big, like, watercolor tablecloth, and then put a bunch of, like, individual watercolor, like, kits with, like, brushes and all this, and water cups all over, and you could just sit down and, like, color on the tablecloth while you're, like, getting to know people and chatting and. And at the end, she, like, gave me one, and I got home and picked up some paper, and I've just like, every single day I just sit down and just like. I mean, I don't know what I'm doing, but, like, that's kind of the point that I think, yeah, it's very Zen. And then I. And then I, like, doodle on top of it. I don't know if you know, when you can.

[M]

I think that's the coolest way to do it, though. I've always been a lot of my

[Christine]

TikTok videos so fun for me.

[M]

A lot of my tech talks are watercolor and then drawing something on top of it. And then it's.

[Christine]

Oh, it's, like, so satisfying. And I always thought, like, oh, I can't do stuff like that. But it's like, oh, you literally like, leona does it. I mean, it's like, you get To a point where you're like, oh, it doesn't really matter what it looks like. Like, it's just really relaxing. And I'm trying to finally kind of just be more, you know, creative and, like, present. So anyway, shout out to them for even introducing me. I don't think I ever would have tried watercolors otherwise. And now it's, like, all I do during my, like, off time. It's, it's, it's really fun. So pick it up. Pick up a little kit. They're really simple. And, and by the way, you don't have to clean it up. Okay. Well, you probably should, but, like, you don't have to because the paints don't dry. Like, it's water color.

[M]

Sure, sure.

[Christine]

So it, like, you can set it out and leave it and then, like, come back to it. And for me, as someone with very, very intense ADHD and ocd, like, I will not like a messy art project. It's going to last weeks on the table. I'm never going to find time to clean it up. So I understand. Anyway, that's why I drink this week. I just drink my, My thirsty rat water and m. Tell, do tell, why do you drink this week? I will finally shut up.

[M]

No, I was gonna say earlier my ASL thing, but I, I, it came. Came out quicker than I expected to, but I have officially said it was a very small thing. But I did accidentally do my very first ASL conversation without needing help, which was very fun.

[Christine]

Well, the fact that it was accidental makes it even more, like, impressive. It just kind of happened. What was it?

[M]

Yeah, well, I was wearing a BU sweatshirt, and I guess the teacher came over to me when we. When she wasn't teaching. We do, like, a game of telephone at the end of every game. And while I was waiting for it to be my turn, she came over and talked to me and asked if I went to BU and what year I graduated. And I told her what year. And then she said her sister got her PhD nearby. And then I asked, what nearby?

[Christine]

At Harvard.

[M]

That's what I thought at first, but I said, oh, what'd your sister get her Ph.D. in? And she said that she actually went to Brandeis. And I said, oh, my girlfriend went to Brandeis and she got her master's there. And then I said I got my masters at bu and she asked if I got my master's in myself.

[Christine]

This in sign.

[M]

And I. All in sign.

[Christine]

That's amazing.

[M]

I was literally, I was like, that's amazing.

[Christine]

That's amazing.

[M]

Thank You. And then also, the. The only thing I needed help with was I asked her, I said, I'm sorry, can you repeat yourself? When she was spelling out Brandeis? Because I was like, what the are you doing?

[Christine]

I. Yeah, probably so fast.

[M]

But other than that, I got it all. But it was.

[Christine]

Since we were playing telephone, it's harder than bu. Yeah, yeah.

[M]

BU is a lot easier.

[Christine]

Or bc.

[M]

But so because we were playing telephone, I. It became a thing where I guess everyone was waiting for me to finish my conversation with her so that they could tap on my shoulders because it was my turn. So then everyone accidentally was watching me do this whole thing. But it was very cool that I

[Christine]

could say, oh, God. Well, that's awesome.

[M]

Yeah. And then my other reason why I drink this week, I'm gonna back away. And for dramatic theatrical reasons, I will not be speaking. I'm gonna need you to explain what's happening.

[Christine]

Oh, good.

[M]

Let's just say yesterday I was finally feeling a little better. I've been sick all week, and I was feeling good enough to go out in public, and I went somewhere.

[Christine]

Oh, God.

[M]

Because someone. Let's just say my calls were heard, and somebody gave me some information. So I need you describe what's happening.

[Christine]

I know. Whoa, whoa. Okay, first of all, the way you pushed that, but you stayed with the camera. It looked like this cool effect because, like, you came forward with the computer, but, like, the wall went back. It almost looked like the walls were receding from you. So if you ever want to do a cool little trick. That was awesome. Here we go.

[M]

Okay.

[Christine]

Oh, okay.

[M]

It's a new one because the other one was gonna be.

[Christine]

Oh, it's a new one. We got the Knott's Berry Farm asparagus shirt. That was.

[M]

Please read the detail of the asparagus. What is it? Is. It is what?

[Christine]

Let me. Let me please apologize. It is the incredible asparagus shirt. Incredible asparagus. And we got another here. What is this? This is the taste. Tasteful turnips. Oh, that's quite a purple. That is a. That's a shocking purple. Wow. Okay, we've got delicious rhubarb. I'm not loving the lack of alliteration, but that's okay. We can work with it. I do love a rhubarb.

[M]

Now here's the best one.

[Christine]

Amazing artichokes. Now that. Now that I would wear. That's the one.

[M]

I finally. And finally.

[Christine]

Oh, fancy sugar beets. That's right. They're fancy folks. Get your fancy sugar beets.

[M]

So I Spent a shitload of money on T shirts yesterday.

[Christine]

So now can you tell me how this. That.

[M]

Oh, here we go.

[Christine]

Zoom in back in.

[M]

So I found out that. And maybe this is wrong information, but the only person who's able to help me. Thank you so much. They also put me in contact with, like, the director of merch.

[Christine]

By the way, was this the person who said, I do merch for no. Oh, okay. Someone on Instagram commented like, oh, I'll check in. I do merch, but a different kind or something. And I was like, holy.

[M]

Oh, okay. Well, no, luckily I did say I was like, I think in numbers. We could all get this together. Also, everybody with eyes on this podcast say, please excuse my hair. I'm getting a haircut after this. I. A bunch of people reached out. I really appreciate all of you and the information I was given. I do not know how accurate it is, but it's. What I'm working with is that for the Boysenberry Festival, which is going on right now only, which is why I had to go yesterday, is that they bring out a bunch of dead stock and try to sell off what they can, but usually it's no longer in stores. Oh, that's.

[Christine]

Wow. So this was just, like. It was dead stock that you had to go buy? Oh, yeah.

[M]

So I, like, really manifested this.

[Christine]

Was it on sale?

[M]

No.

[Christine]

What the. They didn't even put it on sale. They're trying to get rid of it.

[M]

And not only that, but the entire collection, two of them no longer exist at all. Aren't totally sold out. So I will never have the strawberries or the boysenberries.

[Christine]

Okay, first of all, relax with that attitude. You just said you'd never have any of them, and now you have, like, a bunch. So let's fucking tone it down. I'll never have anything. It's not gonna work here. You just said you manifested them all. You got two left to manifest. What is it?

[M]

Strawberries, which is a red shirt.

[Christine]

Okay. And a boysenberry.

[M]

Boysenberry, which is like a periwinkle shirt.

[Christine]

Well, no wonder that one sold out. That sounds lovely.

[M]

It was beautiful. I saw someone wearing it yesterday, and I went, where'd you get that? And he was like, I got it a few years ago. I wonder if it's even around. And I went, I know it's not. I. Fuck yeah.

[Christine]

First of all, why do you sound like Zach Baggins? Secondly, give me your shirt. Give me it. Give me was.

[M]

Anyway, I. And the irony of last time, when I saw them, I was like, oh, I'm not gonna buy all of them. That's way too much. But then when they were there today and it's dead stock and. Or yesterday and it's dead stock, I was like, well, I have to. Now. Last chance. And on principle, because Asparagus and I have gone through a lot together. I got a hat.

[Christine]

Oh, that's very cute. Okay. Amazing asparagus. Wait, what was the artichoke.

[M]

Amazing artichokes. Incredible.

[Christine]

Why the fuck do they use the same word?

[M]

Oh, incredible asparagus. Amazing artichokes.

[Christine]

Oh, I thought it was amazing on both, and I. I was really upset.

[M]

I have to thank everybody for all of your help, or I would have not even known. And also, it was in one store at the back of the park. That's it.

[Christine]

Holy shit.

[M]

So I don't know how long it'll be there if I'm wrong. And it's always there for some reason. It was the factory store, but I even asked the person working, and she said, oh, they brought it all out for the festival because they're just trying to clear out merch. So I wish you the best. And they did not have a lot of sizes left. Although if they even had, like, an extra small.

[Christine]

Who are you talking to? Nobody wants this shirt. Except, um, you're literally the. It's back.

[M]

You're wrong. You're wrong. I guarantee you I inspired at least one person.

[Christine]

Yeah, it may be what it is. It's more like it didn't hit, then you got it. Now it's like, oh, everyone wants a piece of that. That makes sense.

[M]

Someone's gonna want it. And I'm telling you, it's at the factory store. But they don't have strawberries or boysenberries.

[Christine]

Wow. Now, so I gotta really think, like, what do I want?

[M]

Well, you tell me. And I have at least one of almost each in a size you don't need.

[Christine]

So I do love that. I didn't really mean those shirts. I do. I am happy for you and those shirts. And I would.

[M]

I'm just so excited. I'm like, of course everybody wants these shirts.

[Christine]

I would wear the rhubarb. Okay. But as I just said, you're the only person who really wants.

[M]

Okay, what's up? What's an obscure thing?

[Christine]

I'm nagging you. I don't know. I almost feel like, wow, that's such a weight of responsibility. We didn't know that these shirts would really manifest, and they did. And it's like, now I feel like we got to do something important. No offense again. I feel like I'm just insulting you every. What do you mean? Fucking five seconds. Five seconds. But I'm like, now what do I manifest? Like, world fudgeing? Peace.

[M]

You know, tasteful turnips is pretty good on the. At least on the world hunger front, we've got turnips and rhubarb and.

[Christine]

Sure thing. Sure. Your thing. Yeah, yeah. In the back of the factory store. It's really nice. Let at full price. See? Why am I bullying you? I don't know. It just started to get fun.

[M]

It's okay. It's Friday, so maybe that's what it is.

[Christine]

I did qigong this morning.

[M]

Is that what is causing this? What's happening?

[Christine]

Honestly? Yeah, probably because I've released a lot of. So they have these things that you hate yourself.

[M]

What?

[Christine]

So, okay, I did qigong this morning, and can you explain what that is?

[M]

I don't think I know what that is.

[Christine]

It's a type of yoga at the ymca. And. Well, it's a type of yoga, and it's a very. It's a. It's a more kind of relaxing. It's technically a martial art, but again, we're not going to get into that.

[M]

You suggested this last week when I said I wanted to get into being stretchy 100.

[Christine]

That's exactly right. And I forgot to mention, you also hit yourself with these little things. And they did mention.

[M]

You did not mention that when you were suggesting it to me. You were like, oh, no.

[Christine]

Okay, well, don't hate yourself. My mom and I have Googled everything I can think of. Oh, that's what I'll manifest. Somebody tell me what that thing is called. Because it's like, I think traditionally they use bamboo, but they're these nice soft velvet. Like, maybe they use them in tai chi. I'm not sure. But you basically. Oh, wait, Tai chi is a martial art, not qigong. Sorry. So you hit yourself with this thing, and it's just really gentle, and it, like, is meant to, like, move energy and, like, get things flowing. And it's like a very, like. It's like pat. It's like a little gentle pat. But today we came late because, of course. And the only one left was this big, like, hand. So my mom starts slapping me on the butt with it, and I'm like, girl, that. Ow. Stop it.

[M]

Oh, I was kind of hoping it'd be fun.

[Christine]

Well, it was fun for a second. Then I was like, all right, enough of that. It was too early for that. You know, yeah. And now. And we did it again. Oh, that's right. Because we recorded last time, and I. I had a lovely time. And so we went back today, and. Wow. It's, like, been really nice. But anyway, point being, that's probably why I'm behaving this way. I don't know if it was, like, moving the energy around. I don't know if it was, like, my water coloring is just, like, unlocking a really unpleasant side of me or, like, what. But I'm. I'm loving it. I just know that not everyone else is.

[M]

I blame the watercolors. I think maybe I feel like you're getting a little too relaxed, you know,

[Christine]

I'm just, like, getting too Zen, you know?

[M]

I know. And that's always been a problem across the land.

[Christine]

Huge, so huge problem for me and you. Yeah.

[M]

Well, what are you drinking? You said you're thirsty. Rat water.

[Christine]

Isn't the water just some water today? I'm trying to be, like, you know, hydrated and Zen, if you ever heard of it.

[M]

Well, I like it. Also, your tattoo is flawless today. She's really shining in the. In the perfect angle.

[Christine]

Oh, this whole thing. Thank you. I've been. After I take a shower now, I put on, like, some, like. Like some little jojoba oil, you know, and it make. My neighbor Troy, he. I just love the man. He does, like, Reiki and, like, has, like, a little wellness spa in his house, and his house always smells really good. And he gave me for Christmas a little jojoba oil, body oil. It's really lovely.

[M]

It's incredible who you've found in Kentucky on your street. You just.

[Christine]

I just kind of, like, pull them to me. I'm like. I'm like, oh, the gay Reiki practitioner down the road. I would like to be part of this crowd. Thank you.

[M]

I think it's because you show your big bisexual arm with your big old leopard lion cap.

[Christine]

It's not, like, not intentional. It's not, like, unintentional, you know, Certainly

[M]

a little queer signaling, and I dig.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[M]

I'd like. I meant. I mean, that's fully complimentary.

[Christine]

So is the large rainbow flag outside our house. I just want to be like, you can come chat with me. Unless, like, you're that guy Greg. But, like, we'll talk about him another time.

[M]

You know, I'm curious about Greg.

[Christine]

Okay, we'll talk about him another time. I mean, he's perfectly fine. He's just, like, very. He's a normie. He's like a super normie.

[M]

That's all you had to say.

[Christine]

I mean, his name's Greg. You gotta love him, though. But from afar.

[M]

So from. From Troy to Greg. That's the. That's the spectrum.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Spectrum is, like, wide for sure. For sure.

[M]

Where do you fall? A little, obviously more Troy.

[Christine]

I'm always a moving. Oh, I just can't sit still. That's what the watercolor is all about. I think I'm just really kind of channeling some, like, on unpleasant energy of just like we, you know.

[M]

Well, I am drinking water, but also I'm finishing my boysenberry juice, so.

[Christine]

Lovely. Lovely.

[M]

That was a good time. I. It was my first boysenberry festival. I ate, like. I can't even tell you how much food like, you look.

[Christine]

You turn purple. Look at you. Your shirt, everything.

[M]

You're. I did wear this to the festival.

[Christine]

Oh, I see.

[M]

Because I was like, I should. I should match the vibe. And everyone apparently heard the cries of the festival.

[Christine]

Oh, they were on theme. Oh. Oh, you love that. I love a crowd on theme.

[M]

Everyone was purple. The food was beyond. But so I don't know. For people who don't know knots, boys. Knott's Berry Farm. Knots, boysenberries. Knott's Berry Farm is. Was just a berry farm. Then it became a berry farm and a fried chicken restaurant, and then it became an amusement park.

[Christine]

I've never been. I know nothing about this.

[M]

Oh, okay. It's kind of.

[Christine]

I used to hear it on the radio and think they were saying knott's Berry Farm. And I was like, what's. What's that? Knott's Berry Farm. Like, I didn't understand what. And then they say, not scary farm.

[M]

Not for Halloween.

[Christine]

And I was like, oh, good, it's not scary. And Blaze was like, no. Like, anyway, it's fine.

[M]

And then during Christmas, they have Knott's Merry Farm.

[Christine]

Oh, so you see? I see what they're doing.

[M]

No, but it's. So it was a farm for a while, and it is still a farm, but they built a museum park in it. And it actually, I think the story goes, it inspired Disney to create Disney World.

[Christine]

That is a good story.

[M]

Yeah, but so every. Every year, they have a festival where they bring out all these boysenberries from their farm and have people, like, a hundred different types of food. And so they do this whole, like, food tasting festival. So while you're at the amusement park, you go from restaurant to restaurant and try, like, annual foods or special foods for that. That week. And there literally was Over a hundred different boysenberry foods to try, and I think I ate 99 of them.

[Christine]

Did you have a favorite?

[M]

Yeah. So the fa. The famous food this year was called the Brick, which. Oh, it was a runner up for me. It wasn't my favorite, but it was like a big ass piece of bread. I have. I took a picture. I'll send it to everybody. But it was a big.

[Christine]

Everybody. I know.

[M]

They all send it to everybody. It really means it'll end up on Instagram.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

It's a big. A big square of like brioche with boysenberry ice cream and syrup all over it. It was very good, but it.

[Christine]

Oh, I see. Yeah, that sounds good if executed properly. What's. What's the. What's the. Okay, sorry, go ahead. So you had a favorite, though?

[M]

My favorites were. I had this boysenberry and blood orange lemonade, which was very yummy.

[Christine]

Oh, wow, that sounds delicious.

[M]

Then I had chicken wings. I wrote a list of my favorites.

[Christine]

So that way I was like, what

[M]

are you looking for?

[Christine]

Oh, I see a list. Of course. You're a Virgo rising, remember?

[M]

I know. I'm noticing it now. Chicken wings with boysenberry sriracha, a churro with boysenberry ice cream on it. They had a boysenberry cheesecake that was very good. And dippin dots did some sort of collab with them where they were selling boysenberry dippin dots and they put it in sprite, so it became a sprite float with boysenberry dippin dots.

[Christine]

That's fun.

[M]

And they made a. It looked like sushi, so they were calling it boysenberry sushi, but it was a shortcake with boysenberry jam in it. And it looked like a roll of sushi, but it was a. Just a cake roll, basically.

[Christine]

Okay, maybe we talk about this in the yabbier, but I want to know, like, what are your thoughts on eating food that looks like other food? Because I really have a hard time with it.

[M]

It. I love it. Did I tell you about the potato ice cream that I ate?

[Christine]

Oh, no. What? We'll talk about that.

[M]

We'll talk about that in the yap.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. Because I. I like, I just. I wonder if it's like a sensory. Like, I just something. I get really weirded out about it and I.

[M]

It's. It's almost an uncanny valley vibe, I think.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'm exploring that a little bit. You know, I love that.

[M]

Well, yeah, we'll talk about that.

[Christine]

Cool.

[M]

And then. Until then, I have a story for You. Because if you guys were done with my apping, too bad I'm still here,

[Christine]

so too bad it continues.

[M]

Well, I feel bad when I overpower the first half. The.

[Christine]

Our. Our literally Talked for about 10 straight minutes without letting you say a single word.

[M]

That's literally not true. You're just being nice to me. I.

[Christine]

Okay, sure.

[M]

But anyway, so I. I feel bad.

[Christine]

Bullied you also for 20 minutes. But, yeah, you're right. I'm being super nice. I just bullied your clothes, your shirts, your many shirts. No, it.

[M]

I. I'm glad you noticed.

[Christine]

Not that one. I mean, I bullied that one, too, but that was separate.

[M]

Oh, the other ones. Yes.

[Christine]

Well, I believe that one in an ad when I said, we look. We don't look really, like. Like, we use daily look, but, you

[M]

know, certainly the day after a boysenberry festival, I look, I might as well have gone to the bar, you know?

[Christine]

And like I said, I wore this to qigong this morning. Okay, so we're looking. We're looking like yesterday's. Yesterday's mail. You know what I mean?

[M]

Beautiful.

[Christine]

Sorry, I was trying to just end the sentence. I didn't know what to say.

[M]

Been there. But it actually worked out very well.

[Christine]

So thank you.

[M]

So in our copy, it told us that we need to discuss a problem and then a discovery and then an experience. So here's my problem. Well, here's what was once the problem.

[Christine]

Here's the formula. Okay, give us the problem.

[M]

M. The problem is I was really hungry, and I didn't want to have to go grocery shopping, and I didn't want to do all the driving, and I didn't want to have to figure out what ingredients I needed. But then the discovery. That is Hungry Root.

[Christine]

Yes.

[M]

I don't have to drive to the store. They bring the food directly to my door. I don't have to think about ingredients or portions or how to even do the recipe. They just provide it for me.

[Christine]

And then the food question. Biggest question. Are you still hungry?

[M]

I am not. Ah.

[Christine]

We approve. Hungry Root plans your groceries for the week. It's true. You really. Your brain, your mental overload really diminishes. At least mine does. They fill your cart. They deliver everything you need right to your door. They somehow know that, like, in the morning, I forget to eat, and then they have, like. Like, prepared breakfast for me. They have stuff for Leona. Hungry Root is just like, talk about problem, discovery, experience, and you nailed it. Why am I even talking?

[M]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Christine]

Back Off.

[M]

You're going to love Hunger Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40 off your first order, plus get a free item in every box for life.

[Christine]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com drink. Code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice for life.

[M]

Well, here's the beginning of a different sentence. And tell me how you feel about this, because today I'm talking about. Do you know you literally recommended it?

[Christine]

No. Oh, oh, oh. The one. The one. The one in that part of the country where there is also that couple that went there and they did that in an episode of a show of a documentary.

[M]

Yep, that's it, actually. Yes, very. Right. The old Washoe Club.

[Christine]

That's the one. Oh, my God. That's exactly what I just said.

[M]

So, once again, Zach Baggins wins because this is, like, the eighth episode in a row that involves him somehow.

[Christine]

He has power over you and me

[M]

by the whim that I. That I fall to.

[Christine]

Oh, we just are at his every whim for sure.

[M]

My maybe favorite thing about these notes is the first line, because I wanted to let you know that as I was looking up the history of the old Washoe Club, the very first article I looked at, it starts with the sentence in the salad days of Nevada. Now, the salad. The salad days.

[Christine]

What could that mean? Please.

[M]

I had to look that up. And apparently it's a reference from Shakespeare, and it means a. An innocent, youthful or nostalgic time when one was green in judgment or raw in naive nativity. Naivete. Green judgment. But apparently that's a salad day is when you're green to the world, therefore very innocent.

[Christine]

Okay, so it's like you're. Yeah, you're green. Right. Okay, sure.

[M]

So now if you ever want to sound whimsical, you just talk about, am I salad date?

[Christine]

Oh, that's like. I actually really like that.

[M]

Weirdly, I also like it. I mean, it was the first. As soon as I saw that, I went, well, I'm talking about this.

[Christine]

Well, well, well. Look what we have here.

[M]

So if you have not been privy to the last, like, eight episodes, it all started with me thinking I was gonna cover one thing one time. And then it has slowly spiraled into just a rat of Zach lore.

[Christine]

Yeah, we can't escape. We've tried.

[M]

And I thought we did finally escape when you were covering the Concertina Butterfly back.

[Christine]

That's right.

[M]

And then you mentioned the old Washout Club, and now we're here. So the butterfly effect is really in full swing.

[Christine]

I'm so sorry about that.

[M]

So as we all know after the last two months, we're all experts in this. We've done this before. The mining days of yore, they needed luxury spaces. And they were slowly opening in booming towns for miners and businessmen who were really interested in the silver mines of Nevada. So in the 1870s, Virginia City is the town that we're talking about in Nevada. It was one of those booming towns. They needed high profile people or they had high profile people in town who were there on business. And finally for once, I'm going to be saying something other than they needed a hotel for these businessmen. Instead they needed a social club for the high elites of these mining businesses.

[Christine]

Well, you've got a hotel. What's next? A social club?

[M]

Well, I. I've mentioned every other one of those damn hotels. Like we are proof that they had enough hotels.

[Christine]

So they're staying there and they're like, now what do we do?

[M]

Yeah, we have to go somewhere else.

[Christine]

Not those dirty mines somewhere. 100.

[M]

So thus comes the Washoe Club. And the Washoe Club quickly became very famous across the Pacific. It had members in it that were very rich and powerful. Many of them were bankers, judges, attorneys, businessmen in the mining industries, political figures, actors. I don't know why actors who have no business in the mining industry or moving to Virginia City to be.

[Christine]

They find their little way. They worm their way into everything. These celebrities, you know, I feel like

[M]

they just hear a friend of a friend of a friend, ha. Is in a high society club and they're like, well, I gotta join.

[Christine]

You're like, oh, has he seen me in what's a really old movie, a

[M]

spaghetti western, I'm sure.

[Christine]

Have you? Has he seen me in all those spaghetti westerns? Because he'll want me to be part of this.

[M]

Who wouldn't want me here? Examples of these people were General Sherman and General Grant before he was even president. Grant, Mark Twain, Thomas Edison and around 50 other millionaires.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[M]

So because so many millionaires were a part of this, the Washoe Club ended up being nicknamed the Millionaires Club.

[Christine]

This sounds like a nightmare.

[M]

It does sound like something I don't want to be a part of, but I Not even all the intel.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'd like to like see what's up. But then I think I'd get depressed about it.

[M]

I want to know someone who's in there. Like, I don't need to go to Club 33 at Disney again.

[Christine]

But I was like. Because you already went.

[M]

But I do want to know someone who can tell me what's going on back there.

[Christine]

You know what I mean? You want to. You want to.

[M]

I want the scoop.

[Christine]

You want the scoop? You're Gemini.

[M]

Sue me. I want the scoop.

[Christine]

I've tried. Just kidding.

[M]

February. So this is in 1875, by the way. And in February 20th. On February 20th, 1875, that was the first club meeting, which, by the way, was detailed and I'm assuming the town's only newspaper.

[Christine]

Okay. Yep.

[M]

And in that report or article or the scoop, if you will.

[Christine]

In the scoop. Yep.

[M]

They talked about this first club meeting. So, you know, I would have been reading this newspaper.

[Christine]

You were glued to this page. Yeah.

[M]

According to this article, it was telling us that at the first club meeting, there were 60 members already involved at this first meeting, and they were hoping for up to 200, so they had a cap immediately that only 200 people could be in here at a time.

[Christine]

I like that 60, though. It feels like space. Spacious enough, you know, like we all have room.

[M]

It's a healthy. Healthy space to be. Yeah.

[Christine]

Were women allowed? Probably not.

[M]

I certainly doubt how many women in 1875.

[Christine]

Literally, the aisle you did almost looked painful. But it's true. Like that. It's true.

[M]

And you know what? I call bullshit on the fact that they would only have up to 200 people there, because if the 201st millionaire walked by and said, I'll give you a million dollars to be in here.

[Christine]

Give me a break. You're 100% right. They'd be like, oh, it's actually a technicality.

[M]

Yeah. I think they tried to make it

[Christine]

look really, like, exclusive or some shit.

[M]

So there's 60 people. Each of them has already paid $150 to be there, which I did the math, of course, and it is about $4,500 today to.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

Even joined without knowing how this is gonna go.

[Christine]

Okay. I mean, I guess they all have

[M]

money to throw away if you're a millionaire. Dare I say multi millionaire. And 4, $500 is like a toothpick, please.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

People had not yet paid initiation or dues, so I don't know what the hell this money was for. But within two months of that first meeting, they had a permanent place which was called the Reynolds Building. You do not need to know that. But for the history buffs that happen to be listening to. And that's why we drink. The Reynolds Building is where the first permanent building was for this club.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

In had a Library, a wine room, a card room, double parlors, a billiard room, a reading room, a lunch room, and it was built with Italian marble and bronze details.

[Christine]

Ooh.

[M]

The newspaper article that reported on this building. Once the updates were all done, the scoop as somebody who could not attend this meeting, but would like to know what's going on there. This newspaper article, when I tell you that they didn't leave a single detail behind, I mean it.

[Christine]

Like, do you know how much that brings me just joy? I like those old newspaper articles where you're like, you don't need to be seeing all this, but thank God you put every detail, every love that all

[M]

the way down to, like. Like, I'm sure it's. It would be a spy's nightmare. Someone reported on, like, how. What their safe house looked like, because this guy was. This article whoever wrote it was describing all the way down to the square footage. What happens if you look left versus right?

[Christine]

And like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[M]

Like, no secrets anymore.

[Christine]

Like, bring it on.

[M]

It was talking about what type of door, how it was built, what color it was, what, what was made out of it, how it connected to each room. If it was just a. If it just separated two rooms or if it was a full opening door.

[Christine]

Wow.

[M]

The names of each of the rooms, the imagery that he saw in each of them. So if there was a painting on the wall, what type of painting it was and what image and who made it and what materials it was made out of. He was talking about what type of tables were in each room.

[Christine]

Hey, we just set this guy into a certain man, a certain island. I've heard of that. To do a little investigating. Give me a little scoop on that.

[M]

If that guy were here and read up on what we know so far, he would be livid.

[Christine]

He'd be fucking livid. What is the point of journalism? Like, come on, we've come so far.

[M]

He talked about the types of carpets and if they matched, all the other rooms. He talked about the chandeliers, like, all the way down to, like, what light bulbs were used. Like, I mean, this guy didn't. He. He was like, my nosy mother is going to read this. I better not fuck around.

[Christine]

He's like, I'm a nosy mother. And I think that's why I'm writing it like this, because I care about every little detail.

[M]

And it gave people permission to judge because he was also writing, like, how the chandeliers, who bought which one and how much each of them was worth and what the. And what the what? The chandeliers. How each of the chandeliers were different from each other, and if this one looked fancier, if this one didn't match the room.

[Christine]

Wait, why are they all picking different chandeliers? Why is that part of it?

[M]

It. He had every piece of information except that. So.

[Christine]

Wow, I just got to read this.

[M]

Anyway, it was a very. A really well done article. And that was after all the updates were done at this Reynolds building, which now holds the Washoe Club. So four months into this Washoe Club being at this permanent building. Whoops. A great fire comes through the town and burns everything down.

[Christine]

There's always a great fire. There's always a great. And why is it so great? You know?

[M]

Yeah, it's pretty great in history, as in, like, that entire mansion just went kablooey. Oh. So everything I just.

[Christine]

Chandeliers. All those ugly chandeliers.

[M]

All those hideous carpets and tables.

[Christine]

Oh, thank God.

[M]

So most documents and information about the club also burnt down with this fire. So we actually don't have a lot of.

[Christine]

Oh, that sucks.

[M]

Information about what happened in this building. Um, but it was only, like four or five months old, and then it was gone. So then all these millionaires who just put all this work into this building, they just paid all these dues. Now they're like, what the fuck do we do? And they had to stay there because this is still at the height of the mining industry. It's not like, well, the mines are kind of dwindling. We can leave. It was like, they still want to be here, and they still want something to do other than be at the hotels.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[M]

So, scrambling for a new location, they find this one saloon that survived the fire. It is now, by the way, known as the oldest saloon in Virginia City. Probably because all of its competitors burned down in the fire.

[Christine]

The great fire.

[M]

The great fire. Excuse me. So it survived the fire. And on top of this, on top of the bar were a bunch of apartment buildings, but they were all vacant. I don't know how that happened. And so they were like, okay, we're going to buy the entire apartment complex on top of this bar, and we're going to renovate all the apartment rooms into just one big house. So that's how we get the final iteration of this club. It was. By the way, the bar is called the Crystal Bar, in case anyone cares. And I will say my favorite thing about the Crystal Bar, because of course, I researched that too, is that during Prohibition, this was a speakeasy disguised as an ice Cream parlor.

[Christine]

Oh, that's clever.

[M]

Very. And that's why we drink.

[Christine]

And they're like, oh, it totally is. And, like, they're like, oh, all these. These men, these mobsters keep wanting ice cream. I don't know. Not mobsters, but, like, all these, like, men. It's just weird. They're kind of drunkenly stumbling out of that ice cream part.

[M]

That rum raisin ice cream is really good.

[Christine]

Raisin is X. That's probably what you had to order to get your.

[M]

You're totally right.

[Christine]

Wink, wink.

[M]

You know, you're totally right. Or isn't there an ice cream that's like, bourbon?

[Christine]

Something like a bourbon pecan?

[M]

Yeah, something like that. But I think rum raisin. You're right. So according to the same paper that covered the club's original design, where they, like, went full in on the information, that guy came back for the new location.

[Christine]

Oh, thank God. They didn't have enough of him for the first time. I would have been like, how dare you insult my tacky lamp?

[M]

You would think they'd be like, anyone but him. But I guess he was the only one.

[Christine]

He put on a mustache, was like, it's his friend. It's not him.

[M]

He was just in, like, a trench coat on top of three other people or something.

[Christine]

I'm not him.

[M]

So he came back and the art. That article was just as incredible. One of the things that he did talk about was the spiral staircase in this place. A spiral staircase. He loves the spiral staircase. People still love it. And I will say, fun facts about the spiral staircase are that apparently it had some second door to it that led to the other side of the street so they could sneakily let ladies of the night come in.

[Christine]

I see. I see.

[M]

And on top of that, this is probably its most famous fun fact. It was actually on Ripley's Believe it or not because of this fun fact.

[Christine]

No way.

[M]

It is the longest spiral staircase without a supporting pole.

[Christine]

Okay. Well, that's a terrible thing to be in the Ripley's Believe it or not or whatever you said. Do you say Ripley's Believe it or Not?

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's. That seems like not something I want to be part of.

[M]

I don't want to stand on it.

[Christine]

No, thanks.

[M]

And it's also, like, on top of the fact that it sounds structurally unsound, it's also, like, 160 years old or something.

[Christine]

Why would I touch that? Yeah, I don't think so. No, thanks.

[M]

I'm good, dog.

[Christine]

And then I'm. And then I'm also Dizzy. Literally, like nothing good can come of this, you know?

[M]

So another feature of this new club is the reading room, which I guess later became a music room. But fun fact. And only two sources. I looked at a lot of sources. Only two sources mention this fun fact. The music room is shaped like a piano. Literally, the walls are shaped like a fucking piano.

[Christine]

But it wasn't a piano at first. It was a reading room.

[M]

I guess so. That makes no sense to me. Maybe they saw that and went, it's a fucking music room.

[Christine]

Maybe the journalist was like, it's shaped like a piano. And they're like, it's literally not. And he's like, it's my article, it's my scoop. I get to say what the fuck I want.

[M]

That's a good point. No, I. You know what? Maybe I'm mixing up the reading room in the music room because why would you make the. And the music room's like shaped like a book or some shit. Yeah. I don't know.

[Christine]

Which is a rectangle, by the way.

[M]

And as you say it, I noticed that my house is oddly book shaped.

[Christine]

That is crazy. That has to mean something.

[M]

No, it really, I did. Of the two sources that told me it's shaped like a piano, only one of them had video evidence. And it is shaped like a piano.

[Christine]

So I mean like a grand piano. Like with the.

[M]

I don't. It had a. It had a. Is that a grand piano?

[Christine]

Yeah. Where it has like the big back to it. The booty.

[M]

Now I don't know all about that.

[Christine]

Like a. Like a. Not a piano that's flat against the wall.

[M]

It's not. It would not fit against the back wall.

[Christine]

It's like one of the ones with the.

[M]

It's got a curvy back.

[Christine]

It's got a booty. That's what I said.

[M]

Okay, well, that's an extra fun fact that I didn't even know about.

[Christine]

A little behind.

[M]

So another feature. Oh, I already.

[Christine]

Oh, no flop. B flat to be found here.

[M]

B major or something.

[Christine]

That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it.

[M]

Let me see, let me see. Okay, so we did. Oh, we did the piano thing. The other la. The last fun fact I'm going to tell you about this place is that they had a telegraph in there. In this club that was dedicated to giving members like very active, accurate, updated information on stock market. So that way, no matter.

[Christine]

God, they had like a stock ticker in there, but it was a telegraph.

[M]

Yeah, but also for like 1875 so like so active and accurate.

[Christine]

And they're like, six weeks ago this. Your stock in horses went up and your stock in wagons went down.

[M]

Something like that. Yeah. I do. I do wonder how accurate it was.

[Christine]

A great fire happened. Now you got nothing.

[M]

Yeah. They also had actually in the reading room, wherever the fuck that was. They had every major newspaper printed and sold there. So that way you could just have every.

[Christine]

Oh, I mean, no matter where you're from. That makes sense.

[M]

That's fun. And also I imagine that that's quite a perk in 1875 in the middle of Nevada.

[Christine]

I would say that especially on top of getting your stocks are one thing, but. Yeah, you probably want to know what's going on.

[M]

Yes. Yeah, I would.

[Christine]

So with this new equation you want. Of course you do.

[M]

Membership grew to 100 people very quickly. So went from 60 to 100. I did look at a roster of some of the people and interestingly, I know nothing on this and I could be totally wrong here, but one of the members was an EA Schultz. And within 10 years of this information. Stop knowing that an EA Schultz was in Nevada. We know nothing left about my oldest known relative, Edward August Schultz. Oh, we do now, baby. Like, oh my God. Millionaire.

[Christine]

He's living that high life. Where are those millions?

[M]

I'm telling you, I've been looking high and low for anything about those millions and from before.

[Christine]

What's his name?

[M]

Edward August Schultz. And Edward, the last information we had of him was 1865. And now we're in 1875. Now the whole family did end up in New York. So we would have to find an EA Schultz that went from Nevada to New York or something.

[Christine]

I'm just writing notes for my future for one night when I'm. When I'm extra manic, which could be tonight if you could tell by the frenetic energy that I loved out of myself. But I might taking some notes. As long as you're comfortable with that, I would.

[M]

Why the fuck about. Stop asking for a no, I don't care. Well, so he. I know my family came in from Ellis island, so he had to have gone from New York to Nevada to New York, which I could see him coming here and swindling his way into a club.

[Christine]

This is like million millionaire behavior. And it's like, what do you. Yeah.

[M]

And then go back to New York

[Christine]

with the money that especially like those mining towns. It's like you would go out there just to around find out. I guess. I don't know.

[M]

And he was. Yeah, I Don't know anything about him though. So maybe this is a completely different person.

[Christine]

But I was like, so we don't know, like he just vanished. It's not like not vanished but like he just vanished off the records. It's not like he came back to New York later.

[M]

He. He must have come back to New York because after him, every single member of the family was in New York and he came in himself through Ellis island, so.

[Christine]

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[M]

The only thing that throws me off is why would he go to Nevada? But I could see him trying to just make it.

[Christine]

Do you think, could he have left the family behind? Like, did he already have the family there and then leave?

[M]

So funny you say that the family left him.

[Christine]

Gasp.

[M]

He was apparently such a horrible man that the only way I even found out his name was through newspapers and ancestry.

[Christine]

So this literally checks out that he could be this fucking millionaire asshole and

[M]

he had no family that wanted him, so he just went to go make more money. I don't know.

[Christine]

Jesus. But apparently he could have just want

[M]

my own family has always been like, we don't talk about him. We don't talk about him. We don't talk about him.

[Christine]

Did you get a weird feeling when you saw. I mean you must have at least a little bit like that feels weird to see the initials and you're like, I've been looking for someone with that exact name for a long time.

[M]

Yeah, that was weird.

[Christine]

But wow.

[M]

I don't know. It was also just because I've. Yeah.

[Christine]

I mean it's also like not an uncommon name. Sure, yeah, but.

[M]

And E. Schultz would have thrown me because I would have been like, oh my God, it's me in a past life.

[Christine]

I was you, right?

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

100.

[M]

So I don't know, it was just interesting.

[Christine]

Okay, okay. I'm just taking a little mental note.

[M]

I speak only to your mania. Do what you must.

[Christine]

Thank you. I wish more people would speak only to my mania because then it'd be like a lot easier to compartmentalize, you know, so someday, you know what, whatever

[M]

you need to do. From nothing to everything. I'm happy no matter what.

[Christine]

Ah, great. I'll let you know as it happens.

[M]

So in the 1890s, the mining industry is now down, so less people are spending time there. So they're not paying active dues. So the club close very quickly. It goes from like it opened in the 70s and now it's closed in the 90s. It was a short lived experience. The saloon underneath though, it did stay open it's still open today. For many years, the club levels were abandoned. Although sometimes it was office space. But now the levels are available if you decide to go on a ghost tour or an overnight investigation.

[Christine]

So are you allowed on the spiral stairs?

[M]

I'm confused. I think so.

[Christine]

I'm gonna say big time. No, just on for. To anyone who's asking me, I'm gonna say get to get off the stairs.

[M]

But I will say if I were there and I looked up and saw those stairs, I'd go, I'm not climbing those. I would say that.

[Christine]

Personally, I don't think so. That's not for me. And I honestly advise anyone in my party to maybe not.

[M]

I agree.

[Christine]

That would really ruin the vibe.

[M]

If there were other stairs, I would take those definitely. And I would take those as a plan B.

[Christine]

Now is there an elevator?

[M]

No.

[Christine]

Oh God.

[M]

So if there is, I didn't see it, I'll tell you that. But basically, when it comes to the. The death and the afterlife of this place during its years here, the club obviously had some shady businesses going on because there's a bunch of millionaires in the middle of nowhere killing time during a silver mining big break. Yeah.

[Christine]

And like needing a place to like be amongst their color, which is always

[M]

gross of their caliber, as they'd say. They had a lot of gambling and sex work. And it was still the wild West. Let's not forget that.

[Christine]

So.

[M]

And it sat above the town's oldest saloon. So let's not forget that. Definitely a lot of drama and deaths. And there was a lot of. As many articles put it, gun slinging activities.

[Christine]

Activities.

[M]

Sounds like with gunsling there's only one activity. But okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. I was gonna say how many can you really pull out of that? But O. Okay.

[M]

And everyone was here because of a mining boom. So there was a bunch of mining accidents going on. So there was a lot of death. And then it bringing. Being brought to the building after the fact. There's a lot of just dark energy. A lot of dastardly stuff swarmed this building. So. Yeah, seriously, probably the most direct hit, spiritually or paranormally that this place had was that during one winter the ground was so frozen that grave diggers could no longer dig bodies or dig the ground up to put bodies in.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

And they needed a place to store them.

[Christine]

Oh no.

[M]

The bar became what has been referred to as a pre morgue.

[Christine]

A pre morgue. Oh my God.

[M]

These bodies would be put in burlap sacks which like. Wow. Just like scientifically, such a biohazard wow.

[Christine]

And also just like. Like a haunted house. Like. Like bodies in burlap sacks. I mean, Jesus.

[M]

And they would just store them in this little offshoot storage area by the bar, which is now literally known as the crypt.

[Christine]

Oh, for God's sake. Not the pre Morg.

[M]

Not the pre. Well, I heard some of the staff and interviews calling it a pre. Morgan. I was like, are you just trying to avoid the word crypt?

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

[M]

The crypt is now still a random storage room that you can go into. But people say that when they go in there, you can literally smell death. Still.

[Christine]

No, No.

[M]

I guess to get these bodies out once it started getting cold enough or once started getting warm enough, I would assume they only knew that once it started smelling like bodies in there. Or maybe the ground was loosey goosey. I don't know. Let's hope that was what was going on. But the only way to get them out of the bar and into the ground as they had to then drag all these burlap sacks across the bar in front of everybody. So people just saw bodies getting dragged out, and it was almost 100 bodies.

[Christine]

Holy.

[M]

It's a bad day.

[Christine]

Maybe even knew some of these people. I don't know if that's true. I don't know how big this deal

[M]

is, but I thought the same thing. I thought the same thing.

[Christine]

Yikes.

[M]

It was 77 bodies. Someone who says, so anyway, today, people still claim that they smell death. When you go into the crypt, people have had pebbles thrown at them.

[Christine]

Weird. Yeah.

[M]

Even though they're there by themselves. And according to one bartender, which I don't know her name, and I honestly don't wanna because she is saying things a little too casually for me.

[Christine]

Oh, dear.

[M]

She says, oh, yeah, Randall, our creepy crawler grabbed me by the ankle in there.

[Christine]

Don't say that, girl.

[M]

Give a caveat. What do you mean, girl?

[Christine]

Back up. Back the up.

[M]

Take a breath and realize how crazy that is. What?

[Christine]

You just said one thing from Jersey Shore. Take a door and walk through it. What is that?

[M]

Open the door and realize it. Open the door and realize it.

[Christine]

Open the door and realize it.

[M]

Which, like, I'm so glad you just brought tears in my eyes.

[Christine]

Oh, it is such a good one.

[M]

You do know what's happening in two days?

[Christine]

Oh, that's right. Yes. The. Yes. It's been on my mind. Jersey Shore a little bit.

[M]

I am very lucky to say that I'm going on a trip with my mother. And I am. I think I said it in the last week, but I have to bring it up again. I'm going to go see the actual Jersey Shore. I'm so excited. Like the Jersey Shore house. Like the house where they filmed it in, man. And I can't wait to get a picture of a door just so I can send it to you and say, fucking realize it.

[Christine]

Honestly. And then I'll say, yeah, take a door and open it. And you'll be like, that's not. That's nothing.

[M]

Very excited. Thank you for mentioning that.

[Christine]

Oh yeah, you're so welcome. It really just got stuck in my head for a few days and then I lost it completely.

[M]

So I cannot wait. You really tapped into something there. Anyway, yeah, in case you need a. A nice one liner for somebody today.

[Christine]

It's good.

[M]

Back to Randall, our creepy crawler. As she said a little too happily

[Christine]

that I don't like that she calls

[M]

him Randall because apparently this creepy crawler friend of hers who grabs her by the ankles inside the crypt and she just giggles her way out after that sentence.

[Christine]

From Monsters, Inc. From Monsters, Inc. Because

[M]

he looks exactly like Randall from Monsters Inception.

[Christine]

The only Randall I know is that creepy thing from Monsters, Inc. She said

[M]

it way too casually. But then she went. I mean, he doesn't like change colors like Randall in the movie. But he is of course black with silver eyes. And she just kept moving, of course.

[Christine]

But he can't color change. That would be ridiculous.

[M]

That would be.

[Christine]

What are you talking about?

[M]

And then she said he does like to slither all over the floor and people have seen him climb up the walls.

[Christine]

Don't be like this. I was like, be like that.

[M]

First of all, if I were trying to get someone to interview about like ghost stuff, she nailed it. She really, yeah. Wasn't afraid to hold back. But I was like, can you at least act knowingly that I'm freak?

[Christine]

Slightly perturbed. Right. Read the room.

[M]

Anyway, she apparently has had way too many experiences.

[Christine]

Silver with black. What is a black with silver eyes?

[M]

Black with silver eyes.

[Christine]

Random it.

[M]

Who crawls up the walls and slithers on the floor and apparently tries to make eye contact with people. Ew, yuck. I would say he is my least favorite. If I had to spend the night there, Randall would freak me out the most.

[Christine]

That's like the crawler from Bobby Mackie's. I don't know, I just. It's like. No, I'm good. Not for me, thanks.

[M]

I'm good. The another death that happened here, which was much more recent, was that actually one of the bartenders died from a Self inflicted Gunsh.

[Christine]

Oh.

[M]

Because he found out that his son died in a mining accident.

[Christine]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[M]

And so apparently it feels weird to say that he's probably people's favorite ghost there. I think it's because he's the closest to our time, so he feels a little more relatable or something like that or. So apparently the only thing that we know for sure about him, this is from the same person who's like really chummy with Randall. She said that her and Scotty, the bartender who passed away are pretty tight ghost wise. But he usually does not care for women, which is interesting because I, I don't know what else there is about him besides the fact that he lost his son. So I don't know why he has an issue with women, but apparently he does.

[Christine]

Well, a lot of men do for no good reason.

[M]

So sure, great point. There are two to three kids who passed away here or at least two, three kids who haunt this place.

[Christine]

Ooh.

[M]

Okay, there is a 10 year old girl named Gretchen who, remember I said for a while after the club closed this was office space. One of the offices up there was a doctor's office and she had just, she had been walking right past the building and got hit by a horse and carriage.

[Christine]

Jesus Christ.

[M]

And people carried her up to the doctor's office and. And hoped to help her, but she ends up dying from her injuries and now she haunts the building and she's known to be quite the giggler.

[Christine]

Oh my. Oh my.

[M]

She walks around the ballroom. Apparently there was a ballroom at one point. So she walks around there and she's also seen in a white dress on the staircase, sometimes climbing the stairs. And if, if you're climbing the stairs, people have felt a little kid grab their hand.

[Christine]

Oh, and that's sad.

[M]

There's another ghost who. Or another little kid who died the exact same way, which is very eerie. Also hit by a horse and carriage and then died of his injuries. He was a nine year old boy named Pete or Peter, and he's now known to be a rambunctious ghost who likes to yank on your shirts, pant legs and purses. And then there's a little girl, an eight year old named Ella, and she died in a mine explosion where I guess a mine explosion happened in the building next door and killed like 12 people. And two of those people were people who killed who lived in the old Washoe Club.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[M]

Okay, so she died from like the blast, I guess.

[Christine]

Right, right, yeah.

[M]

And she had a doll that now apparently still Moves by itself.

[Christine]

Oh, for God's sake. I mean, I'm out.

[M]

I'm out. I'd be like, girl, take your doll. I don't know where you are. Get out of here. You and the doll can go have

[Christine]

a nice life together after life together.

[M]

So on the staircase, on that big spiral staircase, not only is there that little girl dressed in white who likes to grab your hand, but there's also, of course, a lady in blue. Finally, blue.

[Christine]

But wow, a lady plot twist.

[M]

And they say that her name is Lena. A lot of the article said that she was a sex worker from the club's days. But then the woman who knows Randall and all these other people and seems a lot more of today's world. I don't know how else to put it. She seems like someone who, like, she's more. I don't know what the right word is. It doesn't feel like it's an article from 50 years ago. It feels like she's just a person who's talking about today. So I kind of trust her more. Does that make more sense?

[Christine]

Right? It feels more relatable.

[M]

Yeah. She was the only person to say this, but she did say, I don't think she was a sex worker or she wasn't a sex worker. She was just a mistress. She just said, she's a mistress who was hooking up with one of the guys in this club, and the wife found out and the wife actually killed her on the stairs.

[Christine]

Oh.

[M]

And then got away with it because she was married to a millionaire.

[Christine]

I didn't just know the house of millionaires. Yeah. Holy.

[M]

Everywhere else said, like, a sex worker who was killed by one of the people in the club.

[Christine]

Or of course it was probably covered up.

[M]

Up. Yeah, something like that.

[Christine]

Even if it was a sex worker he was having an affair with, and then, like, the wife finds out. Right? Like, it's just like, whoa. That makes it really, like, way creepier to know that that happened. And then they just, like, didn't do anything about it.

[M]

Yeah. Or I would see articles where it didn't mention, like, if she was a sex worker or not. But it does put it in your mind when you're like, why is there a woman in a millionaire's club where, like, some debauchery is going on? You assume that something xxx is going on, you know? But she was the only person to say it was a mistress and the wife of one of the husbands is who killed her. And it was on the stairs. I didn't know that at All.

[Christine]

Wow.

[M]

So people see her now. She's a blonde woman in a borian

[Christine]

blue dress or no.

[M]

What'd you say?

[Christine]

Sorry, do we know her name or no?

[M]

We think her name was Lena.

[Christine]

Oh, Lena. That's right. I was about to be like, I really like that name. I'm like, yeah, because it's one letter off Leona. I'm like, wow, what a nice name.

[M]

So we see her now as a blonde woman in a Victorian blue dress. She's seen on the third floor, which is where the club was. But people have also seen her as a blue mist. People have seen her as blue specks or blue orbs in a picture. So she comes in all shapes and forms, you know, from Troy to Greg,

[Christine]

you know, so the full spectrum. Wow. What a callback.

[M]

Thank you. So this is why I also was kind of blown away by the fact that a woman maybe killed her on the stairs, is that every other article said. And her killer is also seen in the building as this dark shadow figure with a brimmed hat. And so.

[Christine]

Oh, wow. So it was very, like, very.

[M]

Just implied it was not a woman.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

And interesting. So now I don't know if the dark shadow everyone sees is a bad, scary person who killed Lena or was this just, like, a random man who's, like, taking the heat for this, or is it.

[Christine]

I mean, my first thought is, like, shadow man or hat man? Where I'm like, oh, a lot of times shadow figures show up where there's, like, really dark energy. Maybe it's just like, hey, I'm here too.

[M]

My other thought was, like, what if it was the husband she was sleeping with and is, like, trying to. He's trying to get his wife or something.

[Christine]

Gasp. He's back.

[M]

I don't know. It could be anyone. But apparently there is a dark shadow figure.

[Christine]

Maybe she wore a hat. Maybe she wore a Carmen. Sandy, go.

[M]

You're totally right. Why am I gender informing here?

[Christine]

You just do that a lot.

[M]

I know, I know.

[Christine]

It's just, like, your thing that you do.

[M]

So he's also seen on the upper floors. He could be anyone from the club days at this point. But people have also, when they see him around, they've also smelled cigar smoke upstairs. They've heard poker chips clinking.

[Christine]

So he's not really like a shadow person in the background. He's like a. An apparition? More.

[M]

I guess so. Yeah.

[Christine]

Okay.

[M]

People have heard piano music playing. People have heard voices talking to each other. Apparently footsteps are so common. It's, like, crazy. And at the poker table that still sits there. I don't know if it's the poker table or just a table to, like. This is where we played poker. Anytime you're in the poker room, electronics fail a lot. In the music room, the one shaped like a piano, apparently there's a porcelain doll in there that rocks itself in a rocking chair.

[Christine]

Is that the same one? One?

[M]

No, it's not. It's not the same doll.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. Why are there so many dolls?

[M]

I think Ella's doll moves, like, by itself around the house or something. Or, like, moves its arm or, like, blinks or something. But this one, like, rocks in the chair.

[Christine]

Forget it. Come on.

[M]

Also, in the piano room, people hear old ragtime music playing, like, some.

[Christine]

That's fun.

[M]

It's fun until you're alone in a room and hearing a demon piano playing ragtime.

[Christine]

And then the doll's like, here I come. And you're like, no, this is my music.

[M]

Yeah. One room there is called the red room, which is known to have the darkest energy without fail. Every interview I saw, everyone was like, oh, the red room. I don't like going in the red room. Apparently people have been scratched and shoved in there. They smell sulfur, they get dizzy and have to leave. About, like, 30 different people have been on record scratched there really viciously.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[M]

There. I saw one interview. I don't remember where I saw it anymore, but they saw, like, a little girl get, like. Like, up, like, scratch, scratch, scratched all over her.

[Christine]

What? The

[M]

doors slam here. This is where Zack Bagans got one of his very first apparitions, by the way, like, ever.

[Christine]

On camera.

[M]

On camera?

[Christine]

No way.

[M]

And it's also very common for ghosts to peek their head around corners at you. The girl who I was talking about earlier, who has. Who gave me quite a lot of useful information in the interview I watched her do. She acted like the heads peeking around was also as common as footsteps.

[Christine]

It's just. Just another silly thing.

[M]

She made it sound like every hour on the hour, someone's peeking their head around.

[Christine]

She's like, you know how it is.

[M]

Yeah. And then the club isn't the only part that's so haunted. The bar downstairs is also haunted. Like I said, it's the oldest saloon in Virginia City and they are still running. And they have cocktails that are ghost themed. You know, I love a theme. They have. Have ghost iced tea, which is like, kind of like womp, womp.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[M]

Like, we could have tried harder, I think. But then they also have the Blue lady and the Flaming Orb.

[Christine]

Now we're talking.

[M]

Now we're talking. And there seems to be one main ghost here. I guess he's sometimes called the Prospector, according to some articles. But he is blamed for pretty much all the activity in the bar. Sometimes people will buy him a shot of bourbon to keep him at bay. And the shot glasses always are found empty later. Weird glasses will also just go missing entirely if they have bourbon in them. He's like, I'll take this one for the road. Sometimes the glasses fly off the bar. Like, they just get thrown, and people just watch.

[Christine]

Bourbon. I don't want this.

[M]

Yeah, what is this? Swill?

[Christine]

Yeah, what is this swill?

[M]

The doors have a tendency to open on their own when women come into the bar. So he's a gentleman. Love that. And except for the throwing glasses, I was gonna say.

[Christine]

Well,

[M]

and the bar stools are said to move around by themselves. And different bartenders. One guy said it's always the fourth bar stool, and one bartender said it's always the third bar stool. But one of those two, it always knocks itself over totally by itself. Always just falls over.

[Christine]

Yuck.

[M]

And people have also been yanked out of those bar stools if they were being rude to the staff. So apparently this ghost is, like, protective of the employees, but, like, literally get ripped out of the chair. And then that is it for the old Washoe Club today. But what I'm going to be covering next week.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. It continues.

[M]

It continues. And I'm sorry for other people who don't like this. I don't like this either. I would like to get back to my normal life, but apparently. So Zach Baggins is polluting.

[Christine]

I want to get back to my normal life. Oh, my God.

[M]

But he. He went there. You said twice. He went there three times. And I did find the third video gasp. You did? Yeah. So I will be covering, unfortunately, another Ghost Adventures commentary. But it. It was too much to talk about in this one. But I also don't want to not mention it.

[Christine]

So. Yeah, I gotta know what happens. You know, I gotta know.

[M]

Anyway, that's the old Posho Club.

[Christine]

Wow. I was just thinking about that place the other day. I don't know why. It just, like, popped in my head.

[M]

You could sense me doing notes.

[Christine]

Maybe. I did. Honestly. Wow. Okay. Well, I think we're gonna do a yap yar in a moment, but I. I need to get a bite to eat real quick. Is that okay? Just a protein bar.

[M]

I don't care. Yeah, that sounds great.

[Christine]

So I. I have multiple pets in my home. You have a pet in your home? There's something about like the sheets getting so just like, oh, they just get gross. And, and, and before I found out about Miracle Made, I did not know this. Thank God. Traditional bed sheets can hold more bacteria than a toilet seat. Okay. That's like a thing. Then we put our face on it and we think like, it's fine. We can't see it. And it's like, no, no, no, don't even start. Because Miracle Made, they're the, they're the sheets I pull out now because I'm like, well, these feel cleaner and cooler and nicer and more like luxurious. They actually prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth. They're crafted with NASA inspired silver infused fabric.

[M]

I mean, it helps regulate your body temperature too. As someone who runs incredibly hot and I feel like every single day I'm waking up in a new puddle of my own sweat.

[Christine]

Oh, my Lord.

[M]

I don't anymore.

[Christine]

With Miracle Made upgrade your sleep or gift of better rest. Go to try miracle.com drink to try miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40% and when you use promo code drink, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set.

[M]

They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's try miracle.com drink code drink@ checkout. Thanks to Miracle Maid for sponsoring this episode.

[Christine]

I know it doesn't look it, but Em and I do occasionally like to feel polished. We really need guidance sometimes when we want to look really good and polished. And that's why Daily look is one of my favorite sponsors of the podcast. When I'm feeling like, oh, I want to present like the most fashion forward side. That's where Daily look comes in. They are the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. And you get your own personal stylist.

[M]

And with Daily look, you can try up to 12 premium priests per box in the comfort of your own home, which saves you time and effort. The last thing I ever really want to do is go out and then you have to do the whole shopping thing. I think we're all traumatized from like middle school with our mom forcing us in the. In the. Whether you need something effortlessly chic or, you know, for spring brunch or a polished look for the office or for school drop off so you can, you know, make all the moms jealous or

[Christine]

for like your YouTube channel that's really a lot more professional than ours.

[M]

Dailylook has got you covered.

[Christine]

It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code drink for 50% off. Your first order.

[M]

Once again, that's dailylook.com for 50% off. And make sure you use our promo code drink so that they know that

[Christine]

we sing you one last time. Daily look.com promo code drink.

[M]

Well, I feel perfectly calm for a horrible story to make me uncom.

[Christine]

Excellent. Let's get into it. Okay, so today I have. It's. It's a bit of a shorter story, which, like, obviously we say that a lot and it's never true. So I'm going to say that now. I think it's true this time. We'll see. Okay, this is the story of a man that the LA Times nicknamed the Prince of Fraud.

[M]

Oh, I love a fraud case. Does that mean no one dies?

[Christine]

No one dies.

[M]

So we can just say whatever we want?

[Christine]

Yay.

[M]

I always get worried where I'm like, who do think no one dies? Who am I gonna crack a joke about? And then I feel really bad.

[Christine]

Three lines and I'm gonna be like. And then she was murdered.

[M]

Oh, oops.

[Christine]

No, I don't think anyone dies. So, like, you know, hold me to that, please, because I'm gonna, I'm gonna get into it. But I don't know why I'm doing this. I'm like zooming in on my computer really big when I like, brought my iPad so that I could look at something.

[M]

It's okay, Grandma.

[Christine]

Yeah, I know. I'm like extra, extra, extra large font. Okay, here we go. Here are my notes. So the prince of fraud, AKA the fake sultan. He's got a lot of nicknames. Okay, this story today that I'm going to tell it to you the way that I'm going to tell to you, begins on Fisher island off the coast of Florida, Miami area. Do you know this place? Fisher Island?

[M]

Nope.

[Christine]

No. Okay, I've heard of it, but I certainly have had no connection to it whatsoever. It. I feel like maybe it's where your millionaire folks at the Washoe Club Club maybe would have reincarnated and come back here to this Fisher Island. It's very beautiful, luxurious, very. This is more like billionaire status, actually. So I don't really know if they're quite allowed to cross over. Like if I feel like you probably have to spend more than four grand to just be in the room, you know?

[M]

Sure.

[Christine]

From earlier. Yeah. So Fisher island, if you're unfamiliar. A2 Fisher island is a 216 acre man made, like, little oasis island thing off the coast of Miami that holds a distinction of having the highest per capita income of any zip code in the United States.

[M]

Jesus. Okay, so like, you're right, billionaires.

[Christine]

I was underselling the status of it. I was thinking like, how quaint and fun that we both did like rich people stuff. But this is like, oh, this is like. Yeah, this is like the late stage capitalist version of this story.

[M]

Oh my gosh.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's rough. So. So into this world of extreme wealth stepped a man one day known to everyone as Prince Khalid Bin Al Saud. He lived there on Fisher island in a luxury penthouse that cost $18,500 a month. And he made his presence known immediately.

[M]

Of course.

[Christine]

Of course. He drew. You gotta. So he drove this brand new Ferrari California fitted with diplomatic license plates. Like he had the whole, whole, whole thing. He had security that accompanied him places. Diplomatic security service, like security detail. They wore the official DSS lapel pins. Neighbors knew him as very flamboyant. He was known for wearing like the. This is the specific example. They gave the latest Gucci fur slippers. Like he would always be on top of his game in that front. And people actually, actually, locals actually googled some of the stuff he wore and did because it was like so outrageous. Like, people googled, for example, the Gucci first slippers to like uncover what this guy was up to because he was such a mystery. Like he showed up and just made such a big splash and was so eccentric that people were kind of side eyeing him a little bit.

[M]

Who's that girl?

[Christine]

Yeah, who is that girl?

[M]

What's she.

[Christine]

Are they doing real? Yeah. And they were. So his neighbors and the staff of the island took his royal status as fact often. I mean, he has this house, he has these Gucci fur slippers, and they are real. He. It was suggested, it was implied to people that when they address him, they use honorifics like your highness.

[M]

Oh my.

[Christine]

Or his highness. And when people met him, his entourage would quietly suggest that you bow a little bit. Bit when you greet him.

[M]

Damn.

[Christine]

Because he's a prince, after all. And most people just kind of went along with it. They don't know. They're like, I guess he's this Saudi prince that he's claiming to be. Why should I argue? You know?

[M]

Right.

[Christine]

And like, I'll bow to this guy. I guess he always had a, a tale to weave. So he's like the it girl. Not just in his eccentric, flamboyant way. He's also the it girl in that he loves to be the center of attention. Okay. He just can't help himself, this guy. Okay, so he was always telling these stories, right? For example, he, a local resident once asked him which of the Saudi king's many wives was his mother, and he simply replied, the good one. And everyone's like, it's like, what the are you talking about? Okay, what do you. What does that even mean?

[M]

Mean, I don't think him and I would get along. Okay.

[Christine]

You don't? It took you this long.

[M]

You had me with like, the outrageous clothing because I was like, I do want to know what that's all about. But now I think, yeah, personality wise, he's a real stinker.

[Christine]

So, yeah, anyone I have to bow to, as soon as I meet them, I'm like, okay, I don't know about this.

[M]

Do you think his friends bowed to him too, or were they like your bitchness? Like, do you think they were like, very, like, silly about it or do you think he, like, what happened?

[Christine]

No, I think. I think he took himself very seriously. Like, I think, like, it wasn't. Yeah, I mean, I don't think he necessarily. That's a good question.

[M]

I just feel like if all of a sudden I was, let's say, knighted and or in some way I'm expected to be bowed to. I wonder.

[Christine]

Okay, but so his story is like, oh, he grew up as like a prince of this like, billionaire who even knows how much money, family. So, like, he's not joking about it. Like, he's like, this is my literal entire life. You know what I mean?

[M]

I get it.

[Christine]

It's like a different vibe. It's not like he like stumbled into this, you know?

[M]

Sure. I still always wonder though. Like, even like Prince William, like, do you think, like, do you think his friends bow to him?

[Christine]

I don't know anything about that. I don't even know who that is.

[M]

People weigh in because I'm curious. I do think, like, Kate Middleton for sure her friends, like, don't bow. They're like, well, I don't know. We're closer than that. Like, I feel like something has happened anyway.

[Christine]

I'm like, when it comes to the, these royal things, I just like, I'm so blank. I'm. I have no concept of any of this.

[M]

It's a real sidebar. I just get so into, like, what are their personal lives? Like, like, how much of.

[Christine]

Well, you're going to find out a lot about this one. So don't worry.

[M]

Sorry. Keep going. I'm so sorry.

[Christine]

No, no, no, this is good. This is good. We need to have this kind of out in the open because it is very weird and very confusing. And he became notorious, but not really notorious, more like just like infamous around the island for just being eccentric. A prince, a royal, a Saudi royal. Mysterious in his own way, and a chatterbox. And also the center of attention. But perhaps even more famous was his Chihuahua, Foxy. Foxy. Foxy lived a life of luxury, I'm sure of true luxury. Okay. She wore a diamond encrusted necklace that people claimed looked like Elizabeth Taylor's jewelry. She slept in a Cadillac shaped bed, like a Cadillac dog bed. And it had license plates that said spoiled like customary custom vanity.

[M]

Now, I don't know about the prince, but I know people bowed to Foxy.

[Christine]

Now, Foxy deserves a little bit of regal attention and I would agree, some respect with a capital R. So to round out the dog's nursery. Yes, the nursery. He even purchased a custom pink piano from Neiman Marcus.

[M]

The dog obviously cannot play.

[Christine]

Well, I don't know. It's a special dog. It's a royal dog, maybe. Who am I to say? The amount of wealth that the prince claimed to command was just, I mean, staggering. He told everyone he controlled a significant personal stake in Saudi Aramco, which is the world's largest state or state owned oil company. And like when you think about the, the Saudi princes and you know, the wealth, the unimaginable wealth, there is this element of mysterious as well, because we don't actually get to know the numbers. We don't actually know how much money they have. That's not information that we know. We just know. It's like, I mean, literally unimaginable. And so you just think like to come from that world and have just unlimited money, like, it's just. And I remember I met some people in D.C. who had. Not in my circle or anything, but like I had, like seen them, you know, like these people who would come from. With like diplomatic immunity or whatever and like have these like bank accounts. Like you just had a card that like linked you to endless money. And I'm like, what the crazy? I mean, I was working at the law library for like $9 an hour. But okay, I guess you can buy me a Bud Light platinum. Anyway, so this is this guy, this is his dog. It's just. Talk about flamboyant, okay? He tells everyone he has the stake in Saudi Aramco and so they're like Holy, holy. He's got money. Money. Okay. To prove it to people, he would. Not that people were like prove it. But I guess just as like evidence of this, he would show off this ornate box he had which contained a letter allegedly from the bank of Dubai that guaranteed to him the availability of $600 million just to access for any sort of business, business venture, almost a business adventure. That's what this podcast is. Any sort of business venture. Anything he wants, wants to invest in, any friends he wants to help out. Like 600 million just kind of just sitting there, just, just to have. For fun. So of course people are like, oh, interesting. Like thanks for inviting me over. This looks like it'll be a nice friendship for me. I imagine at least that's what people were thinking. I don't know what rich people are like. It doesn't seem like fun. So he gets this letter allegedly from the bank of Dubai that he's showing people he has $600 million. And he would tell people that he to know and would invite over. He offered them exclusive access to sovereign backed deals in things like Irish pharmaceuticals, Maltese casinos. Like he had these like kind of very out out there. It feels almost like they can't be fact checked, you know?

[M]

Sure.

[Christine]

Like what's, what do you mean? Irish pharmaceuticals and Maltese casinos?

[M]

Evidence.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. What is that supposed to mean? But people fell for it, right? Because like why wouldn't you just believe that? And also he looked the part. He, he wore like the traditional clothing, bishts they're called, and thobes. And he, he essentially just was. So it was very. Catch me if you can, right? Like he's just so self assured, very con artists. Like people just believed him without even considering he would might be lying.

[M]

Right.

[Christine]

In reality, this guy was not a Saudi royal. I know, Shocking. His name was actually Anthony Zinyak and he. Tony, Tony G. Of course he'd grown up in Michigan. Of course he wasn't even born. Not only was he not born as a Saudi prince or anywhere in that part of the world, he was born in Colombia. Colombia. And was like there's no tie to any reality here. Right? Like just pointing that out from the, from the jump. Like there's no tie whatsoever to any fiction, like any figment of reality in this one. You know how sometimes you see people and they like kind of glom onto something and like take it really far and say they got like a degree from Harvard and it's like okay, you took a class or whatever. But they like, like this is just totally out of, out of the blue,

[M]

maybe you're going to cover this. But how did he not get. How did his friends not find out what he was up to or something?

[Christine]

I think you talk a lot about friends and I think maybe people like this don't necessarily have like an inner circle that is either checking in on close or authentic enough or real friends enough or family enough, you know, to like really step in. And a lot of this started as a result of some serious trauma in his young years. And so it's kind of hard to trace it back. What happened was he was born in Colombia and he and his brother were orphaned at a young age. And they ended up living on the streets together and fending for themselves for several years and, and like, deeply traumatic upbringing. Was then adopted by a family in Michigan. And he'd actually been born Jose Moreno in Bogota. And he and his brother Daniel had been adopted in 1977. And this was kind of like an middle class Michigan family. Like nothing crazy but that extreme poverty he lived through and his, his sort of like job responsibility at that time, caring for his little brother and making sure both of them survived. Whatever happened to him, it's just, it's terrible to, to read about, but whatever happened to him manifested as this obsession with wealth and an obsession with this like, need to present as this uber wealthy, like totally different person.

[M]

Well, I feel like part of it was probably like he created this like, protector who never has to worry or whatever.

[Christine]

100.

[M]

I mean, I, I feel for him that he probably learned how to be either overtly confident or a con artist or whatever. Totally in the middle of trying to make sure his brother had food. And so he was like, oh, this worked. So I'm just gonna keep doing this.

[Christine]

And then just totally, yeah, survival, survival. And like. Yeah, I completely agree and it is, it's really sad. So, yeah, he developed this lifelong obsession with being wealthy, with like being someone else, you know, and even though he was adopted into this American family, it wasn't quite the sort of like Hollywood picture that you might imagine as someone, as a kid from another country. His parents got divorced when he was pretty young. His adoptive parents. And that also sent him into another spiral. I mean, there was just a lot that, that we don't necessarily know, but that was clearly very linked to a lot of these behaviors. For example, at just 12 years old, we're starting off strong. Okay. At 12 years old, he somehow manages, catch me if you can style to trick a Mercedes Benz salesman into giving him a test drive of one of the cars. And he does this by claiming he's a Saudi prince. And he's starting off strong at 12 with this. And he starts the story and he starts renting limousines in town or nearby towns and he rides around in limousines and anytime somebody asks like, who's this rich teenager? He would just like flash some fake thing and be like, oh, I'm a, I'm a royal prince.

[M]

You know, that's such a, that's such a jump. Like that's such a. I wouldn't have started at Saudi prince because it sounds so ridiculous. I guess you have to be 12 and confident to do that, you know,

[Christine]

And I think that might be why it worked. Because he was so confident that it was almost like the first trick out of the book. It worked and he just ran with it. Like, I feel like if a 12

[M]

year old came up to me though, and said, I'm a Saudi prince, I'd go, you're.

[Christine]

But he would never come up to you. He would never come up to you. He's a Saudi prince. He wouldn't talk to you. Do you see what I mean? Like, he literally walks around embodying this. So it's not like you see a 12 year old, you see like, like a Saudi prince because he's telling you, or at least in the minds of the people, that he's literally pulling the wool over their eyes in the way that. Not literally, maybe he's figuratively pulling the wool over their eyes and they're just like adults. And a 12 year old has just totally. I mean, he must be good, right?

[M]

He must be great.

[Christine]

And like you said, it's probably this lifetime of childhood, of trauma, like learning to survive and then like spinning it into something and it works and he runs with it. So this is what he was up to. He was, he was at 12 already creating like false realities. Of course, the people in his life knew he's not a saddy prince and they're like, you know, cut it out, you're going to get in trouble. They probably see it as like troublemaking. His parents are getting divorced, so they're distracted, you know, and I think he just kind of runs with it. So by the late 80s, early 90s, Zhenya Mac was like full fledged con artist. He had various aliases. One that he used was a very real man named Prince Adnan Khashoggi. And this guy, he's now deceased, but he was a very real and extremely wealthy person. He's described as a Saudi businessman and arms dealer. Known for his business dealings, extensive geopolitical influence, and opulent lifestyle style, which earned him the moniker the Great Gatsby of the Middle East. End quote. At the time of his death, he was estimated to be worth about $4 billion. And this is a guy Zinyak, in his, like 20s, is just pretending to be your 30s, like, pretending to be this guy.

[M]

How much did he actually have, do we know?

[Christine]

Like, nothing.

[M]

Like, nothing.

[Christine]

Nothing.

[M]

I know if, like through this he ends up like kind of catching. Catch me if you Canning where he did actually have. Have something.

[Christine]

I mean, I think, I think it. Well, he did. I mean, he had a $18,500 condo in Fisher Island. Like, he basically had everything. Yeah, but like, what's real, right? Like, it's like, okay, a credit card is a piece of plastic, but you can buy house with it, you know, I mean, I don't know if you could buy a house with it. I guess you can buy a house with it.

[M]

Wow, cool.

[Christine]

But he knew how to. Yeah, he knew how to do it.

[M]

All right.

[Christine]

So he was very notorious actually, for using stolen credit card numbers. That was like his main thing. And remember, this is like the 90s. So I feel like this is also before. I mean, I know it's before a lot of the, like, advancements. Yeah, Fraud, countermeasures, those kind of things. Like check fraud. I think at this point they were like, we got check fraud and then now it's like credit card numbers.

[M]

Like, I feel like all the check. The check fraud experts were feeling real good. And then all of a sudden, credit cards came out and they were like, God damn it. We were like so close.

[Christine]

We just got there. Yeah, the fraudsters are a step ahead, I suppose. In one early scheme, he even managed to like scam a fraternity house. And he, he told, he partied with them and told them he was like this. So maybe that's what was happening to me when I was in college and I met those Saudi princes that were literally just scamming me. I don't know. But he scammed a fraternity house. He scammed all number of people. He claimed he was like different ages. He, I mean, he just is like, he's balling. He's just balling. I don't know. I don't tell you for a while.

[M]

It sounds like he was living sky high. He was.

[Christine]

Oh, he's living sky is tyus. Yes. He eventually moves to California and this is where he refines his M.O. okay. He checks into world class hotels like the Regent Beverly Wilshire sure. He runs up bills for thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of dollars in rooms, in limousines. And then he just leaves and he tells people, oh, well, my family. My royal. The royal family in Saudi Arabia will. Will take care of this. And then, like, that's that.

[M]

And he leaves, like, leave it on my tab.

[Christine]

Leave it on the tab.

[M]

Leave it on daddy's credit card.

[Christine]

Daddy will take care of it. Exactly. Yeah. So this led to a cycle, and he didn't get away with all of it. Like, he's not. Not that mastermind, okay? He was arrested 11 times, and he was sent to prison several times, including a significant deal in 2004 that left him in prison for like, 15 years. This gets out, and he is back to business. He shows up in Fisher island, and that's how we get all the way back to the beginning of the story.

[M]

Story. I see.

[Christine]

Steps foot on Fisher island, gets out, gets out of prison for, like, a lot of fraud.

[M]

And nobody, I'm assuming, hears about any of this stuff because otherwise.

[Christine]

No, no. He's created, like, a whole new thing now. Yeah, exactly. He's just, like, stepping as this whole. Yeah, exactly. I feel like people like this just cannot help themselves. Like, they don't know another way to live because.

[M]

True.

[Christine]

How could they? Like, he's lived this way since he was like, a baby, and he probably

[M]

can justify it in his head of, like, why I'm surviving.

[Christine]

So I don't think he even probably,

[M]

if he had to. I don't think he feels any guilt. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Yeah. I wonder. I feel like this is just like. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. Okay. So he goes right back to business. He sets up this Fisher island ruse. He drives his Ferrari with the fake diplomatic plates, and then he decides he's gonna find. He's gonna find a new target. And. And, you know, he's not messing around with these, like, small fish anymore. He goes to billionaire Jeffrey Soffer, who at one point was married to supermodel Elle McPherson, is also famous for being the owner of Miami's iconic fountain Blue hotel. And he is just this, like, uber wealthy billionaire, okay? And, like, they showed a picture of him on one of the interviews or whatever, and I was like, oh, I know that I've recognized that guy, but, like, just some other billionaire guy. Okay? So he's in sort of wrong place, wrong time, and he sort of gets got because posing as Sultan bin Khalid Al Saud, Zinyak offers to buy a 30% stake in the resort for $440 million.

[M]

Oh, Tony.

[Christine]

I know, I know. He was so sorry.

[M]

Wow, even Gio gets it.

[Christine]

He was like, what's with this guy?

[M]

Is he napping?

[Christine]

No, the male's here, I think. Gio, cut it out. I see one butt. Kurt. It's the butt. Curtain stall. All right. Well, he tried. He tried his best. So apparently he was so convincing when he went up to Jeffrey's offer and was like, oh, I'd like to buy a 30 stake in your hotel that he threw that. When. That. Whenever he was even slightly questioned or, like, put in on the spot, he. He would throw a tantrum or he would, like, overact in this, like, really intense way that scared people. So for one example, he threw a violent tantrum in an Aspen hotel lobby, claiming that his royal honor had been insulted.

[M]

Okay.

[Christine]

And Soffer's team actually apologized by gifting him a Cartier bracelet worth $50,000.

[M]

I guess I'll take it.

[Christine]

Exactly. And he. I guess. I mean, my pride is on the line, but I guess I'll take it. Apparently, he told Jeffrey Stauffer and his team, like, you know, it's customary where I'm from to give gifts to someone as you're doing business dealings with them.

[M]

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah.

[Christine]

So they purportedly gave him, like, almost 200 grand in just presents.

[M]

Is that a real, like, thing, or did he just make that up and nobody looked it up?

[Christine]

He's just making it.

[M]

That's crazy that nobody would look that up before they look it up.

[Christine]

Like giving gifts to a business partner. I don't know. It's just, like. He just is, so.

[M]

I would argue that that's, like, so against the rules because of, like, a conflict of interest or something. It's like. Well, now I. You're. You're bribing me? No. I don't know.

[Christine]

No way with these rich people bribing. They don't. I mean, listen, you're right. They blackmail. They don't bribe.

[M]

Fair enough.

[Christine]

Okay. So you're onto it, though, because Jeffrey Sofford does start to wise up.

[M]

Okay, I was gonna say this Jeff guy is. Needs to get together, and Gio agrees.

[Christine]

God damn it.

[M]

He's like, jeff, free Jeffrey. Figure it out. Boom.

[Christine]

And it, like, it's like.

[M]

Feels like the old days.

[Christine]

Doesn't it, though? Doesn't it just. And you're, like, sweating to death over there. Just like the old days. I got a package.

[M]

You did?

[Christine]

It's my new yoga mat for qigong

[M]

for all Your martial arts.

[Christine]

For all my medi mark. For all my martial art and my watercolor art. Okay, I'm an artist. What can I say? So recently I have been all about trying new things, kind of broadening my horizons, leaning into anything that, like, interests me or intrigues me. And Mud Water is absolutely one of those. I have heard about Mud Water in the past and when they came through as a sponsor, I was amped. So I just ordered some. I can't wait to try it. It's a coffee alternative made with cacao chai, turmeric and lion's mane and reishi that promises steady focus without the jitters or crash. I'm just ready. I'm ready for the, the mushroom I want to try. I feel like what everybody's been talking about lately are functional mushrooms. And it seems so daunting. And I feel like Mud Water is probably the best way to try that out, at least for me, and in a safe and like, controlled way. Every single ingredient in Mud Water's products are 100 USDA certified organic, non GMO gluten free, vegan and kosher, zero sugar, no sweeteners. Every ingredient serves a purpose, which I so appreciate. I am telling you, this is like a very well thought out product. I'm really, really excited to try it and I have a feeling it's going to become part of my daily ritual, my, my daily routine, you know. Ready to make the switch to cleaner Energy? Head to mudwtr.com and grab your starter kit today. Right now, our listeners get an exclusive deal. Up to 43 off starter kits plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother. When you use Code Drink. That's right up to 43 off with code drink@m u d w t r.com after your purchase, they'll ask how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. Thank you. Okay, red flags start showing up. Jeffrey's got to get it together and he starts to. Okay. And he puts the pieces together. He's not a total idiot. Okay. During a dinner out with Softer, this, this devout Muslim prince as he claims to be, he starts ordering bacon and talking about how much he loves bacon and other pork products and prosciutto etc and he's just loving the stuff and, and software's like, aren't you Muslim? Aren't you like devout Muslim? And he's just getting weird vibes. Okay. He also is suspicious because he's realizing that Zinyak only rents a single condo. But he claims to own the entire 54 unit building that he invites people to. And when cornered or pushed into this, right, and he's throwing these fits, he's getting these presents. But like we said, it can only go so far. It gets weird, okay? He starts getting so bold in his lies that it's almost like, it's like people like this, like we said, they don't know how to stop. They're going to get too close to the sun. It's just, it's bound to happen. And until then, like you said, he's fudgeing flying high. He's living large. Okay? He, at one point, while he's living on Fisher island island, convinces American Express to issue him a platinum card with $200 million as a credit limit under the name of Prince Al Saud, claiming that his previous card had been lost and that if they failed to supply him with a new one, his father, the King would be extremely angry.

[M]

Also, like, what? I would start getting nervous that the actual king would hear about this and

[Christine]

be like, I know you'll mess around with these people.

[M]

Like, if you're making, if you're making these kinds of moves, you really are on someone's radar.

[Christine]

You are on a list. If you're pretending to be a multi billionaire, you're on a list. If you are a multi billionaire, you're on a list. And if you're pretending to be one, oh, they're looking at you.

[M]

Someone knows. Yeah.

[Christine]

And like just the weird stuff started to catch up. So he did this thing with the Amex and he, one of the things he had been arrested for those 11 times earlier was he apparently attempted to charge $29,000 of department store fees to the amount of the real prince also, which is a real person by the way. And he ended up. That was that 77 month conviction he was put away for. But he did this a lot. He had credit lines at department stores and he would go in and say like, this is the royal tab. I mean like, it's just like crazy that you could just do that. But it worked. He claimed during his interrogation for that, for that first, first stint in pr. No, not first stint in prison, but longest in prison that he had been offered a line of credit from the Saudi royal family as hush money because he had had an illicit homosexual affair with an actual Saudi prince. So when he gets cornered, he doesn't only double down, he like adds even more context that's like also made up. So the, just to give you a spoiler, like there is no connection to Any Saudi prince. I mean, we don't know. Maybe he literally hooked up with some guy that was. But we. There's no real tangible evidence of that.

[M]

That would be a crazy story, though, if two people claiming to be a Saudi prince hooked up with each other and neither of them were. Oh, that'd be delicious.

[Christine]

You too. Oh, my God. Wow. We're match made in hell.

[M]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So the red flags, the pork, The. The condo where he's like, only in one condo, even though he claims to own the whole building. And it's like something's off, right? And he's kind of making up these stories, like, oh, the real reason I had credit one place was because I had an affair with this prince. Whatever, okay? My dad's gonna be so mad. And, like, people are just starting to get. Get. Get wise. So when Softer finally says, like, hey, his team at least says like, hey, we're not feeling good about this, and we feel like you need to, like, show up with some more details, information, and you need to prove yourself a little more. He throws another fit. Wouldn't you know it? He starts taking calls. I'm doing huge air quotes from the State Department apartment. I'm gonna do more air quotes here. He speaks in Arabic.

[M]

Oh, boy.

[Christine]

Yeah, he uses codes like Zulu, red, echo, 33 that mean nothing. I mean, it's just like, whoa, we're back in middle school, right? Like, he is trying hard.

[M]

This does feel like in middle school, when everyone's just a diabolical liar and, like, diable.

[Christine]

And you don't give it up. You don't give it.

[M]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

He claims he had a computer chip around his neck so that the Secret Service could track him for his own safety, you know?

[M]

At the very least, say it's implanted in you so no one can see it.

[Christine]

Ah, good point.

[M]

Otherwise it'd be like, oh, show me. I want to see the tracker immediately.

[Christine]

I mean, he probably was like, here it is.

[M]

Yeah, you can't see the tracker in it, though.

[Christine]

It's like, well, you know, and he has these robes, and so he's like, oh, it's in here, you know? And the ruse finally ended, right, in November 2017, because the red flags just added up. And he was intercepted because now the FBI's got an interest in this fella. I imagine the CIA has gotten interest in this fella. We're talking international situations here. He was intercepted at JFK airport, and in the interrogation room, he's still pretending to speak Arabic. I mean, he's making up sounds. It's like, dude, this is the moment

[M]

you go, I was kidding.

[Christine]

Like, the FBI knows how to speak. Do you know that? The CIA knows how to speak Arabic? It's like their whole thing. Thing. Like, don't. Don't give it a rest, okay? I don't know if he knew any ar. I don't know. But when. When I watched these interviews on the little captions say, pretending to speak Arabic. And I was like, that's all I need to know. Okay? So he's intercepted at jfk. He's trying to keep up the act and say like, oh, he has this connection. And. And finally the agent said, says, your dog Foxy, we have someone who's gonna take a look at her. And he loses it.

[M]

Oh, that would absolutely send me into a full blown spiral.

[Christine]

Breaks down. He's like, someone needs to take care of Foxy. And they're like, they're like, this is our in. And they're like, we'll take care of Foxy. She's safe. Just tell us everything and we'll make sure she's taken care of in her little Cadillac bed or whatever. The. That was his, like, only genuine affection, right? Like his only real kind of. Yeah, like, soft spot, I guess.

[M]

And also, I would add that as someone who his whole childhood was having to take care of a dependent like this had to with him a little bit of like, he's not being a protector.

[Christine]

It's my baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're like, give it a rest. We're gonna take care of Foxy. Just fucking drop it. And finally he does. In March 2019, he pleaded guilty to charges including wire fraud, impersonating a diplomatic met. He was sentenced to over 18 years in federal prison. He's still incarcerated today, and he has been ordered to pay back approximately $7 million to his victims.

[M]

I don't think he's gonna.

[Christine]

Good luck. I don't know where that's gonna come from. But I just imagine, like, it's exhausting to live like. I mean, of course it is, like, to live like this with getting Cartier bracelets and being like, now I have to. Now I have something and I'm gonna lose it and I have to protect. I mean, it's just like, exhausting, dude.

[M]

Yeah. I can't imagine is like, what is. How did he. What did he say? Do we know what he said to the cops of like, all of it's fake? Or like, did they have to. I wonder if they had to slowly weasel it out of him. And he kept trying to hold on to at least one thread or something

[Christine]

or, you know, I don't.

[M]

I don't know.

[Christine]

Totally. No, I think he kind of clammed up. I think he was sort of like. I think people dug into his background. He couldn't, like, deny that he was a quote unquote, this is how it was framed. Orphan. He and his brother were orphaned in Bogota. And it's like, well, once that's out there, like, what are you gonna say? You know, I think.

[M]

Super curious now what the king of the Saudi king must. Must think of him, because surely he's found out now about this, right?

[Christine]

You think? I feel like probably a lot of people pull like this. Maybe not used to it.

[M]

I don't know.

[Christine]

But I'm used to it. He's probably like, not another one. You know?

[M]

I do wonder how that works. Works in a legal system where, like, if you're in jail and you owe millions of dollars, like, they cannot expect you to ever be able to actually pay that off. Like, how does that work?

[Christine]

No, I mean, that's, like, over. I mean, I think it depends on the situation. And I think it's like, if you have assets that gets, you know, taken into consideration, I think that's probably a whole lot of legal teams trying to figure out what you own and what's yours and how. What the value is. And then probably once you get out, you know, you're on the hook for

[M]

that, and you're probably just, like, in debt for the rest of your life trying to pay people.

[Christine]

I mean, he's probably already was, so kind of.

[M]

Well, do we ever hear about Foxy? Like, I can't, like, if you're.

[Christine]

I mean, I think someone just took that. He. They pro. As far as I know, they were like, if you give this whole ruse up, we'll take care of Foxy.

[M]

I hope he got to see Foxy. I feel so. I'm like. So. I feel so bad about Foxy, wondering, like, where her owner went and everything. Not that I'm worried. I feel bad for him, but I feel bad for Fox. For Foxy.

[Christine]

I'm sure she's fine. She's living a fucking royal life, man.

[M]

Oh, well. Good story. I love once where people don't die.

[Christine]

I know. It is refreshing, isn't it?

[M]

It feels like a safe space to have my thoughts and not go, well, maybe I should keep that to myself, because what if something bad happens to them?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well. And you can say things about people, even if something bad happens to them.

[M]

I know I just get a little weird because I don't know, I'm like, what if I find out something? I don't know. I just always get extra, like, on edge. This. It feels more relaxing to know people aren't going to die in the next 30.

[Christine]

Like, you don't want to misstep with your. Yeah, yeah, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, just kind of like storytelling. Another troubled man in this world.

[M]

All of a sudden I feel like the Saudi king. I'm like, another one.

[Christine]

Not another one.

[M]

What are you up to? You look very poised and posh right now with your legs crossed, your arms folded. Are you mad at your. For me or the king?

[Christine]

Yeah, definitely the world. But no, really. No, no, it's really. Just remember at the beginning of the episode when I adjusted my tatas.

[M]

They need to be adjusted.

[Christine]

And we talk, we talked about bras and stuff and I. I almost said then, but I didn't really get a chance to. But yeah, I notice when I have this camera on, I do start to get a little lumpy. You know, it's an angle where it's just like a little. Like it's distracting to me watching it. Like I don't care what I look like really, but it's like I just get distracted. So then I catch myself just being like, just it. Like, put your arms over, you know.

[M]

Well, you. You look stunning, babes. But.

[Christine]

Well, thanks. It's not like I also need new bras, but that's fine. This another conversation for another day. That's another yappy hour talk.

[M]

Well, I'll let your you and your little boobies run away. Thank you. It's time to go officially all over. We'll see you next week. Where I finish hopefully. The stupid Zach Bagans song Chagra.

[Christine]

Don't hold your breath, people.

[M]

And that's why we drink. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to insert, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure right now. Get up to 40% off site wide. Plus get a free professional measure. At blinds.com rules and restrictions apply.

[Christine]

Stitch fix. Shopping is hard.

[M]

Let's talk about it.

[Christine]

I don't have time to shop for clothes. I have to buy everything in three sizes to find one that fits.

[M]

They know me at the post office.

[Christine]

Workout wear is my only wear. Stitch Fix makes shopping easy. Just show your size, style and budget and your stylist sends personal personalized looks right to your door. No subscription required, plus free shipping and returns. Oh wow, that was easy. Stitch Fix Online Personal Styling for everyone. Take your style quiz today@stitch fix.com your next chapter in healthcare starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our campus, see Live Demons demos, meet instructors, and learn about our Associate Degree in Nursing program that prepares you to become a registered nurse. Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now at Carrington. Edu Events. For information on program outcomes, visit carrington. Edu Sci Fi.