E479 Tonsil Hockey Olympics and Flying Pig Yoga

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Tonsil Hockey Olympics and Flying Pig Yoga”

And That's Why We Drink – Episode E479 (April 19, 2026)
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Episode Overview

Christine and Em dive into a characteristically chaotic and hilarious blend of life updates, accidental Olympic ticket mishaps, unexpected yoga studio fame (with a flying pig mascot!), and their signature deep-dive: a true crime part 2 from Christine and a paranormal ZBCU (Zach Bagans Cinematic Universe) saga from Em. The main topics: the bizarre disappearance of Dorothy Arnold (Part 2) and a multi-layered retrospective on the Old Washoe Club hauntings as they relate to the Ghost Adventures crew and the Constantinos.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Catching Up: Yoga, Mascots, and Unintended Fame

• Allison (Christine): Shares an embarrassing, uproariously funny story about becoming an unwitting local news star at her qigong yoga class.
  • She showed up wearing an “And That’s Why We Drink” shirt, only to find local news and a giant flying pig mascot filming for the Cincinnati Flying Pig Marathon.
  • Despite the instructor's plea to ignore the cameras, the class (including Allison and her mother) tried their best to look composed—unaware their moment would end up on the YMCA’s page.
  • “The way that I laughed. I think I laughed and cried and screamed for like an hour…” (06:31)
  • Christine is highly entertained by screenshots taken by Allison’s family, which spotlight her “bi socks and Boston University sweatpants” (11:01), and jokes about their accidental cross-promotion with the YMCA.
  • The segment captures the podcast's mix of self-deprecating humor, queer-coded fashion commentary, and supportive friendship.

2. Why We Drink: Olympic (Field) Hockey Fiasco

• Christine reveals her attempt to buy surprise ice hockey tickets for her hockey-obsessed stepdad… only to realize after an extravagant purchase that she’d bought Summer Olympics field hockey tickets—not men’s ice hockey.
  • Realization dawned after the purchase when someone asked, “Isn’t it the Summer Olympics? Why would ice hockey be there?” (15:30)
  • “We got four tickets to the final game of men’s field hockey… and now for the next two years, we get to all, as a family, get really into field hockey, so that way we care about it.” (16:00)
  • A family inside joke arises ("I hate Nick" becomes "I hate field hockey"), and Em playfully coins the part-two segment “Tonsil Hockey Olympics.”
  • Christine laments the heat, the duration, and the fact that “at least it’s not air hockey,” and resigns herself to learning about a sport no one in her family knows or appreciates.

3. Paranormal Deep Dive: Old Washoe Club & the ZBCU (Zach Bagans Cinematic Universe)

Before diving into Dorothy Arnold, the hosts revisit a multi-episode thread involving the haunted Old Washoe Club and the ever-tangled history of Ghost Adventures.

a) The Washoe Club Saga: Recap & Documentary Backstory

• Em explains the “humble beginnings” of Ghost Adventures, with snippets from the original 2004 documentary showing Zach Bagans, Nick Groff, and at times, Aaron Goodwin.
  • Notable humorous moment: Young Zach gets freaked out by merely “getting chills” on the staircase and wants to “get the f*** out of here.” (34:18)
  • At [19:27], a highlight: Apparition caught on camera following Nick out of the frame, which got news coverage and arguably secured the crew their TV show. The authenticity is debated, but it's regarded as solid early evidence.

b) Prime Episodes — 2009 & 2018 Returns

2009 (Season 3, Ep 6, Prime Video):

• The crew returns after the Constantinos (notable EVP experts and tragic later figures) report EVPs calling for “Nick” and “Zach.”
  • EVPs: “Hate Nick”; “Zach, look out”; and chilling strings like “Nick, Zach, coming, they’re scaring me.” (46:19–47:14)
  • Ongoing running joke: Nick is the recurring target of the supernatural.
  • The spirit box session produces cryptic responses: “Help,” “Listen,” “Trouble.” Aaron Goodwin experiences energy drain and physical distress.
  • Notably, the episode’s signature line “You wanted us, you got us!” is born here. (51:35)

2018 (Season 20, Ep 3: “The Final Chapter”):

• The crew returns again, this time framed by the loss of the Constantinos, and the club’s history (inc. an 1870s explosion and an infamous crypt used as a morgue).
  • Scenes of raw, genuine grief as the crew revisits places the Constantinos investigated, openly mourning and crying on camera.
  • Investigation highlights:
    • Audio evidence: Loud, clear footsteps while the crew is isolated in the nerve center (76:55+).
    • Ovilus and spirit box devices mention “shoot,” “door,” and, during a coin-throwing incident, reference the year of the Constantinos’ death (“Don’t you love when the ghost throws a quarter dated 2015?”).
    • A striking EVP: “Billy’s upset. Okay.” (76:23) seems to capture a comforting message from beyond.
  • The episode’s production quality is lampooned for its overdone, twitchy redramatizations.

c) Reflections on the Constantinos

• Em and Christine discuss the eerie discomfort of watching old footage featuring the Constantinos, knowing the subsequent murder-suicide tragedy.
• Christine dissects the concept of grief, guilt, and how the show acknowledges (or perhaps exploits) the real trauma behind the paranormal.

4. True Crime Part 2: The Disappearance of Dorothy Arnold

Christine brings closure to her two-part saga of the socialite who vanished in 1910, delivering thorough research and layered historical context.

a) Recap of Part 1 (86:16–88:35)

• Dorothy Arnold: Upper East Side heiress who longed for a writer’s life, was belittled for her ambitions, and disappeared after a solo shopping trip—her friend’s “furry muff” RSVP remains a podcast in-joke.

b) The Aftermath: Family Secrecy & Private Pinkerton Investigation

• Family waited six weeks to report Dorothy missing, fearing scandal.
• Hired Pinkerton detectives find her secret PO Box—a place she kept both rejection letters and lover’s correspondence.
• “She had to hide away her only interest.” (92:13)

c) The Griscom Affair

• Investigation uncovers Dorothy’s romance with George S. Griscom Jr., a wealthy but idle older man, which her parents fiercely opposed.
• Griscom is tracked to Italy, where Dorothy’s mother and brother sail across the Atlantic to confront him—an epic “ride or die” moment for the ages.
  • The letters from Dorothy are claimed to contain "nothing of importance" and are then burned by her family.

d) Rumors, Theories, and The Abortion Hypothesis

• Theories around her disappearance include:
  • Amnesia & secret elopement (less likely).
  • Suicide (her last letter: “All I see ahead is a long road with no turning. Mother will always think an accident has happened.” (120:16)).
  • Botched abortion at a clandestine maternity clinic, supported by multiple confessions/testimonies, including a detailed but later recanted account by a man named Edward Glenoris.
• The family’s motivations are questioned—did they destroy critical evidence or know the real cause?

e) Enduring Mystery

• Dorothy remains one of America’s most enigmatic vanishings—the Pinkerton Agency, money, and family connections all failed to crack the case.
  • “She pulled off one of the most complete disappearances in American history… in the middle of Manhattan.” (121:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The way that I laughed. I think I laughed and cried and screamed for like an hour…” (Allison, 06:31)
• “Why did you put ‘hockey?’ The price suggests it was ice hockey, not field hockey!” (Christine, 17:05)
• “It was just three lanky men getting interviewed, and they all looked like they weren’t familiar with cameras.” (Christine, 37:53)
• “You wanted us, you got us.” (Zach Bagans, Ghost Adventures, 51:35)
• “Billy’s upset. OK.” (Debbie Constantino’s alleged EVP, 76:23)
• “Mother will always think an accident has happened.” (Dorothy Arnold’s final letter, 120:16)
• “Not even the wealth of Francis Arnold… not even the Pinkertons themselves.” (Allison, 121:56)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• Flying Pig Yoga/News Fame: 03:47–11:45
• Olympic Field Hockey Mishap: 14:15–21:31
• Washoe Club/ZBCU Deep Dive: 26:06–82:17
  • Early documentary discussion: 26:06–39:03
  • 2009 investigation with the Constantinos: 39:03–58:25
  • 2018 “Final Chapter” & grief: 58:32–82:17
• Dorothy Arnold Recap & Part 2: 86:15–124:25
  • Recap: 86:15–88:38
  • Griscom affair and family’s response: 93:44–108:18
  • Abortion theory & confessions: 113:22–119:31
  • Final letter and enduring questions: 120:16–123:33

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Tone and Language

• Warm, candid, and deeply self-aware; full of supportive banter, queer-coded humor, and riffing on their own social awkwardness.
• Deep empathy in true crime storytelling, but balanced by playful asides and meta-commentary on both their own podcast and their favorite paranormal celebrities.

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Summary

This episode perfectly exemplifies And That’s Why We Drink: chaotic life events, hilarious self-owns (see: Christine’s Summer Olympics blunder and Allison’s pig yoga fame), in-depth and respectfully researched storytelling, and a loving, critical look at the supernatural “ZBCU.” Christine’s personal storytelling shines in her coverage of Dorothy Arnold, and Em’s Ghost Adventures recaps offer both comedy and thoughtful examination of true-life tragedy.

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For fans:
— If you love inside jokes, improvisational tangents, and long-running paranormal/lore arcs (a la the “ZBCU”), this is a quintessential episode.
— If you’re new, it balances levity, life humor, and truly haunting mystery—especially with the unresolved fate of Dorothy Arnold.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Allison]

girl winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

[Christine]

What to talk about today, Christine.

[Allison]

I'm at a loss.

[Christine]

The sun is shining here. I don't know about anywhere else. Just. Just another sunny day in California.

[Allison]

Wow. Wow.

[Christine]

How's Kentucky?

[Allison]

Just gorgeous over here. I really did feel like a fool for that. Did you hear what happened? You were out of town. I skipped part two of my story.

[Christine]

I sorry about that. That sounds bad. I have a feeling we're gonna right that wrong very quickly though.

[Allison]

I have a feeling I'm gonna do that today. Part two of Dorothy Arnold, the socialite from Manhattan who disappeared in 1910. And I just was like, okay, bye.

[Christine]

You know, you were just. Were just stringing us along. You just wanted us to like really be on the edge of our seats, that's all.

[Allison]

And then I just said, oh, I left you over here on the edge of your seat. Oops. For three weeks. Oops.

[Christine]

We were on the edge of our seat in the movies, and you said you'd go grab some popcorn real quick, but then, like, you ended up hanging out with somebody. You went to the bathroom.

[Allison]

Twizzlers, a long thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough.

[Christine]

I. I think you're gonna. I think it's gonna be fine, though.

[Allison]

Well, thank you. Everyone's been very understanding and kind about it. I'm gonna finish. I obviously have the notes. Like, I did the notes, but I just thought I already did them, so I'm on the show, so I'm gonna do that today. So that, I would say, is one of the bigger reasons why I drink. Well, actually, if you'd like me to go first, I have a very genuine reason why I drink, which is. So you know how I've been doing my qigong yoga?

[Christine]

I. I sure do.

[Allison]

Yeah. So I went Friday with my mother, as usual. And of course I wore mine. That's why I drink shirt, because I have like six, and I just. I wore one of them. And I was standing there and I was like, something's gonna happen today. I didn't know what, but I was like, something's a little funny in the air.

[Christine]

I see. Okay, Okay. I like where we're heading.

[Allison]

And my teacher, our instructor, stands up and goes, well, I heard that the local news is here at the Y today to film some promo, so. For the. For the upcoming flying pig marathon that Cincinnati has every year. So, you know, if the camera people are in here, just. They said, just pretend they're not. And we were like, haha. Okay. You know, we're just doing our thing. Like 10 minutes in. I shit you not. This gigantic pig with wings, like this person in a mascot costume, this giant pig with wings, saunters on into the studio. The yoga studio. Yeah.

[Christine]

And what did you do? What did you really. Did you ignore them like you were told, or did you stare like I would.

[Allison]

We all did a little giggle and then we said, okay. And the camera person said, don't pretend like we're not here. And this pig, this large pig is going to stand in the middle of the room and do qigong and just pretend like it's normal. And we said, okay. So we're standing there and, you know, it's so embarrassing. They start filming and they have this like, yeah, thing. Oh, wait, can you hear me?

[Christine]

Christine?

[Allison]

Oh.

[Christine]

Oh, my. What a story to.

[Allison]

Am I. Am I back?

[Christine]

Yeah, you are frozen. Take a little screenshot. Just so you know what I'm looking at here? Can you hear me?

[Allison]

Yes.

[Christine]

There's a little picture for you. Oh, there you are.

[Allison]

I'm back.

[Christine]

Yes, you're back. But I. Oh, I just saw you say that. You can see in here.

[Allison]

It's so annoying. I could for the last minute.

[Christine]

That is what you look like.

[Allison]

No, terrible, terrible screenshot.

[Christine]

So, okay, I. You had me at pig. And then all of a sudden it froze. Like it was almost. You know what? It was kind of like how you have to do a part 2 later

[Allison]

now I just unplugged.

[Christine]

You said, I really want to keep you on the edge of your seat again.

[Allison]

So that's enough. I said, yeah, this pig comes in and we're thinking, okay, whatever. And I distinctly remember this woman has this camera and she's filming. And I remember thinking, I knew the moment. I knew the moment. They were there for 15 minutes. My mother and I discussed later. We both knew the exact moment that was going to be used for the footage. We knew it. We felt it, okay?

[Christine]

Because it was.

[Allison]

We had done all these like, cool poses where I felt. I was like, I'm looking so skinny with my arm up like this. I bet you I'm gonna look so good on the local news. And like, I'm just thinking. And there's this one part where our teacher says, now pull the energy. And she plays like all like R and B and blues music and like kind of like old school ballads, you know? And so one of those ballads that was playing at the time, which you can actually hear in the footage is, I think it was, I, I will always love you. Or. Or maybe it was a Whitney Houston, I'm not sure, but it was something quite fitting. And she said, now pick the energy and move it in a flow. And the way I tell you, my mother and I, these two white German women, like, standing there moving the flow of energy and I feel the camera on us and I go, this is it. This is the moment. I mean, it's just like I feel it. And I shit you not. It was my stepdad's birthday. We get home that night and I'm like, happy birthday. I'm gonna go look this up. And it's on the Internet, my friend, it's on the Internet. And the way that I laugh. I laughed. I think I laughed and cried and screame for like an hour. It was. I'm going to send you the clip because it really is just so embarrassing. But this, this gives you an idea. Like, I feel like the universe I was trying to explain qigong, and the universe was like, I know, we'll show them.

[Christine]

They said, actually, shut up.

[Allison]

Easy. Sit down. Yeah. So I. It's. It's publicly on the ymca. Cincinnati YMCA page. Also, I'm like, this isn't the local news. Are we just, like, bullying. Cyber bullying me? Is that what we're doing? Like, where's the local news?

[Christine]

I have known anyone braver for. For you to tell everybody about this.

[Allison]

It's almost like I don't know how not to. Like, it's like I feel like this is what the universe needs me to do next. Which is so unfortunate because you could

[Christine]

have just said nothing and then hoped nobody ever found out.

[Allison]

I could have, but I just felt like that wasn't an option.

[Christine]

I can't. May I click through and watch this?

[Allison]

It's very short, and it's. You can barely see it, but the screenshots my brother has taken.

[Christine]

Oh. Oh, it actually. You really actually don't look as bad as I think your brain's telling you you thought you did. That was. That was a very quick moment, and you did look like you knew what you were doing.

[Allison]

Thank you. I. I'll show you the screenshot that my brother sent my entire family.

[Christine]

Oh, thank you. That is what I would like to say. Super good.

[Allison]

It's super good. No, you.

[Christine]

You. It was very fleeting, so you got out of there quick, and the main focus was on this, like, little tutu pig.

[Allison]

Yeah. Big time. Thankful for being. For a brief moment. But it is our podcast, you know, and so I think at least I was representing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, here's the picture that my brother said. Super great. Thanks, Sandy. You're such a gem.

[Christine]

Let's see it.

[Allison]

Oh, it broke my phone.

[Christine]

Oh, good.

[Allison]

That feels good.

[Christine]

It's like when, like, you look in the mirror and it shatters, you know,

[Allison]

that's kind of what. I couldn't even hear what song was playing that time. I forget. But it's. It's absurd. If. Anyway, if. If you want to share it, Megan, to social media, you can. I don't know. We'll get the Y. Some press. You know, the why. It's a great place.

[Christine]

We're accidentally doing, like, a cross promotion with the why.

[Allison]

I mean, love that. I feel like we say accidental, and again, the universe is like, this is all part of the plan. Okay. I'm sending this to you.

[Christine]

Baited breath I have over here.

[Allison]

It's really silly. It's so silly.

[Christine]

Does the pig have a name?

[Allison]

The mascot Fuck if I know.

[Christine]

I really see.

[Allison]

You look like.

[Christine]

That's not. That's not even. Oh, that's a good form.

[Allison]

I mean, he sent it with, like the. With the. Basically the implication. Derogatory, you know.

[Christine]

Yeah. I can sense that the intention was supposed to be evil, but it actually. You look like you know what the fuck you're doing.

[Allison]

Thank you. I was trying so hard to look like what I was doing. Like, I knew what I was doing, that it feels sort of absurd to me, like, because I clearly don't know what the I'm doing.

[Christine]

It's kind of giving.

[Allison]

I think it's kind of giving.

[Christine]

Superhero. I'm so sorry.

[Allison]

It's kind of giving. Oh, I love that.

[Christine]

For me, it's kind of like a black widow sitting.

[Allison]

My bisexual socks. Do you see the. My bisexual socks that day? Oh, and I'm wearing my Boston University sweatpants. So I'm very bi. I'm very m. And Christine coated in this picture.

[Christine]

I like that. I'm clumped into the bi vibe, but

[Allison]

I love the bisexual. But the bu and the a twwd.

[Christine]

Well, I appreciate. No, you do. You do look bi. I'm gonna be honest. You do look like.

[Allison]

Yeah, that part's not. Not a question.

[Christine]

It is. I think it's the way that your arm is. You're kind of flexing a muscle. You're looking like a. Hey, mama's a little bit again.

[Allison]

Really trying on purpose that. And you look good.

[Christine]

You look good.

[Allison]

Thank you. I mean, thanks. You know, I've been feeling good. I've been doing the. Doing the yoga and the qigong and the smacking myself to get the energy of moving, you know.

[Christine]

Good. No, no, it shows. It looks. You could have looked a lot worse. A lot.

[Allison]

Thank you. That's all. You know what? Thank you. Yeah, I like that. I will take that.

[Christine]

Did we. Did we hear. I know I just asked, but the pig's name. Is there a mascot?

[Allison]

Oh, I don't know. I didn't even know there was a. Like. Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Allison]

You know, it's not like a thing that I. I think they just say flying pig.

[Christine]

Okay. Yeah.

[Allison]

Pretty sick.

[Christine]

What is the reason for this event in Kentucky?

[Allison]

It's in Cincinnati. They do the flying Pig marathon every year. It's like just a long running. Long running tradition. And Leona's doing like a mini kids race or something. I don't know. They just have yellow piglet race. That's cute.

[Christine]

Oh, is she gonna be in all pink with your little piggy nose.

[Allison]

She sure is. And they're tie dyeing pink shirts, so she's in heaven right now.

[Christine]

Oh, that sounds so fun.

[Allison]

Yeah. Yeah. I would be drinking something except that I fell asleep into a nap as I was texting M that I needed 10 more minutes. And my alarm as I was hitting. Okay. I fell asleep and did not hit. Okay. So I raced up here half an hour late and now I don't have a beverage, so I'm fine.

[Christine]

But one, if you ever need to take a nap, please don't make it. Please think higher of me to give you only 10 more minutes. Like, yes, you're right.

[Allison]

You actually need an hour. I'm gonna give her the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

And two, if you'd like to go get a drink, you can.

[Allison]

Thank you. I might do it during the halftime show, you know.

[Christine]

I see.

[Allison]

What about you? What are you drinking?

[Christine]

Slash why I drink? I don't know what the hell's going on my phone, I'm getting notification. Leave me alone. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

Oh my gosh, you're so popular.

[Christine]

I think it's like.

[Allison]

I don't know what, it's a group chat.

[Christine]

No, my phone is doing that thing where I'm getting like a shitload of spam texts. It's very annoying.

[Allison]

Oh, yeah, I'm drinking and they're like, hi, I want to play golf with you next Wednesday. And I'm like, what the kind of spam is this? It's so weird.

[Christine]

Possibly think I would respond to that?

[Allison]

Like, yeah. And they're like, I'm Albert and I'm like, that's the name. Really?

[Christine]

Do a little, little recon before you just do this.

[Allison]

Right.

[Christine]

Anyway, I am drinking an El Foggy and then I have a Propel as my backup because I have a feeling I'll gulp this down pretty quick. I drink a few reasons, but the one that I'll go with today is that I live in la, as you know. You've been there.

[Allison]

Sunny California.

[Christine]

Sunny California. And I. My lottery slot. I don't know what the right phrasing is, but my slot opened for me to get tickets to the Olympics in two years. And by the time my slot was open, a lot of like, the most popular things were already closed.

[Allison]

So. Right.

[Christine]

So I was like, oh, what to do, what to do? And I was like, I should make this a gift opportunity. And I should, like, because I don't care about any of the sports that are available to me, so I'm just gonna do something that would make, like, my parents really happy and, like. And they can come to the Olympics, and it'll be, like, a big moment for them. So I was, like, looking through it, and I was like, oh, I see baseball here. Like, Tom would really like baseball. I should do baseball. So I called my mom, and I. The tickets were a little. Holy shit. So I called my mom, and I was like, let's go splitsies and make this, like, a multi. A gift across the next two years. And. And I was reading off the rest of the sports to her. And then we got to hockey, and Tom's obsessed with hockey. Obsessed, like, more than baseball. And so my mom was like, don't get baseball. Get the hockey ones. And I went, okay, great. So we got the hockey ones. And I. And she was like, oh, I can't. I can't keep it. And I have to tell him. I want to tell him. I want to tell him. And I was like, you need to figure it out, because, like, this is going to be a great gift in, like, two years.

[Allison]

Shut up, Linda.

[Christine]

Just forget we ever did this. Even though it was, like, super expensive. I need to emphasize it was super expensive, because I got him the men's hockey. Like, the final. The final game, like, the final one. And it was.

[Allison]

Holy shit.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I was like, this will be a payment plan across two years for sure.

[Allison]

And then.

[Christine]

And then we couldn't keep it in. Ended up telling Tom, and he then went, oh, but isn't it the Summer Olympics? Why would.

[Allison]

That's what I.

[Christine]

Why would ice hockey be there? And I went, let me look at the tickets. And I realized it just generically says hockey, and I assumed ice hockey. And my mom and I really committed to the bit and got four tickets to the final game of men's field hockey. And now for the next two years, we get to all, as a family, get really into field hockey, so that way we care about it. You're kidding me. Yeah. It didn't even occur to me. And my mom and I looked at each other like, we don't. We don't deserve wallets for the next week. Wow.

[Allison]

I am. Wow. That was quite a plot twist. Holy. You know what?

[Christine]

Fuck you, Olympics. Because why on earth would you put hockey? Maybe it's my own problem, because I don't follow sports, and I should have known that ice hockey is a winter sport. Didn't occur to me. Why did you put hockey? I know someone knew that I. People like me wouldn't know, and Just click thinking it was a different type of hockey.

[Allison]

Hockey? Yeah, because they.

[Christine]

The. The price suggests that it was ice hockey, not field hockey. You know what I'm saying?

[Allison]

I. I guess. I mean, I don't fucking know a thing about field hockey. I guess so. Yeah. So I guess I'm surprised they're so expensive, but I guess it's the Olympics. I don't know.

[Christine]

I don't know. Maybe I thought the price made more sense because I'm. I'm in a hockey family, and so I know what those prices go for versus, like, field.

[Allison]

Like, are you in a hockey family? You barely even know the difference between different types of hockey. You know what?

[Christine]

Can tell you called me out. Thank you so much. I. But I would consider anytime I go home. Oh, my gosh. Just hockey, hockey, hockey. Every TV has a different hockey game plan. Like, he's a. He's obsessed with hockey. So I. All I saw was the word hockey, and I just tunnel visioned until we got to get these tickets. It's gonna blow his mind.

[Allison]

And then now at least it's not air hockey.

[Christine]

No, that would be so much better.

[Allison]

I know.

[Christine]

So much better.

[Allison]

I know. I was trying to make it sound good, but then I was like, actually, that's way better. Well, air hockey would be cool.

[Christine]

Mom bought two tickets. I bought two tickets because I was like, oh, Allison, you're. We're all gonna go as a family. And so how to Break the New South?

[Allison]

And Allison's gonna go, I love field hockey.

[Christine]

No, I told her, and I was like, so it's not ice hockey? And she went, is it street hockey? And I went, I think it's kind of worse.

[Allison]

I wish it were. I mean, street hockey. Be cool. Tonsil hockey. Okay. Wait, what?

[Christine]

Wait.

[Allison]

And it's men's field hockey. I didn't know that.

[Christine]

It's not in. In the US that's not a common thing.

[Allison]

Common thing.

[Christine]

So, you know, my friend Cloudy, her whole family is from England, and it a very common there for field hockey to be a men's sport, so.

[Allison]

Oh.

[Christine]

So we were thinking. We were like, maybe we just get the tickets to them because they'll love it. But. No, I'm gonna commit to the bit. I need to learn something about bike. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna take the lesson.

[Allison]

Did you play field hockey or anything?

[Christine]

I played during one summer camp when I was a little kid, and then I went, this is not for me.

[Allison]

It was big at my school, but I did not play it.

[Christine]

It was. I would Say, probably at, if not the biggest sport at my school, it was one of the top three.

[Allison]

But I think it's like a preppy thing. Like, I think it's like a. At least in our. In our world, it was.

[Christine]

We apparently had a really good field hockey team, but I. I tried one time and then, like, the sticks hit my fingers and I went this. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

Ow. Yeah, no, I'm out.

[Christine]

So. No, anyway, I. That's why I drink, because

[Allison]

that's, like, genuinely pretty hilarious.

[Christine]

So if anyone. And I'm not trying to like, on field hockey in a way where it's like, oh, that sport. It's just like, I know nothing about that. No one in the family cares about it. I spent way too much money thinking I was giving someone an excellent gift, and now all of us are stuck in this situation. So if you happen to be a big field hockey fan, I'll see at the Olympics in two years. I guess. I don't know.

[Allison]

I can't wait for you to get fixated on field hockey.

[Christine]

I better. Because if I'm gonna be there. And also, keep in mind, it'll be LA July, and I'm on an open field all day. It's gonna be the hottest.

[Allison]

You were like, perfect. I'll be on the ice.

[Christine]

I literally thought. I was like, this is so wonderful. I'm gonna be just gonna be chilly. Oh, my God. Nope. But I thought I saw, like, it was a stadium or a field or something. And I was like, well, obviously it's a rink. It didn't occur to me.

[Allison]

Stadium or a field or something.

[Christine]

It was like. Like there was a. A name for it, like the location where the. The. The game will be and an arena, something like that. And I was like, oh, it didn't occur to me. I was like, there's ice rinks right now.

[Allison]

I just would have thought you meant ice hockey. I.

[Christine]

Me too.

[Allison]

Like, obviously it's a winter sport. I get that. But, like, I don't know. I wasn't gonna question you on it. Like, especially. I know.

[Christine]

I. I know that the Olympics is literally supposed to be a uniting across the nation sport. So, like, I should have thought that maybe there would be sports that the US does not play there. But stupid American brain. I saw hockey and assumed the hockey that we all see here. So I was like, it didn't occur to me. So anyway, that's my drink.

[Allison]

That's hilarious. I mean, if you'd gone with the baseball, you know, I literally told my

[Christine]

mom that I was Like, I should have never talked to you. I should have just.

[Allison]

Yeah. Honestly. You. Yeah, she kind of. But I'm glad that she spilled the beans because now. What a. What a shock to find that out in two years.

[Christine]

You know, imagine I've been holding on to this really good surprise for two years, and I'm like, we're driving up to the ice rink, and I'm like, where is it?

[Allison]

It's just grass. We're driving up. Hey. Hey, Tom. Don't forget to bring your jacket and your scarf. That's so funny.

[Christine]

Anyway.

[Allison]

So funny.

[Christine]

I. That. Anyway, so that's. That's my reason. Man, what a silly day. What a silly day.

[Allison]

That was good. That's good stuff.

[Christine]

Listen, so anyway, on to these stories. What's fun about my story this week is that you're doing a part two. I'm also doing a part two. So I guess we're closing. Closing the loops on things.

[Allison]

I see. I'm just. Yeah. Just a little behind. But I will do it today alongside you.

[Christine]

I don't think you probably remember what my part two is.

[Allison]

No. Zach Baggins.

[Christine]

Yeah. I was gonna say, hopefully this is the final. The finale of the series that has been following us.

[Allison]

That's what we say every time.

[Christine]

I know. He really weaves a web, so.

[Allison]

And I think that's part of it. I was so excited to cover that couple we talked about, like, to dig into that story, the Constantinos. I think I just like, like, jumped into those re. Those notes and like, did not look back. You know, I.

[Christine]

And I understand it. But then it just. Oh. And I'm not complaining because it gave me topics without having to, like, even research the. Like, you. I didn't have to go look up, like, something to cover. It was like, well, this is obviously what I'm doing next. But I'm like, damn it. Can we walk away from the Zach Higgins?

[Allison]

Like, man, the. The. The lore, the world, the cinematic universe is getting just more and more complex in there.

[Christine]

The zbcu. Yeah.

[Allison]

Oh, kill me, God.

[Christine]

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[Allison]

I don't know what's going on. They have really awesome products like My Pay, which gives you access to up to 500 for your paycheck anytime. You can even get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. I think they're just trying to make banking a lot easier for people who aren't like into the whole traditional brick and mortar situation, which, like, who is anymore? They recently launched their Chime Card, which is a new way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day. I certainly wish I had had it back in the day, but I feel very fortunate to be passing the intel on to the rest of you.

[Christine]

I remember in college being at like Walmart and I would get an overdraft fee and I go, sad feeling.

[Allison]

It's a sad feeling. Then you have to put the Twizzlers back.

[Christine]

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[Allison]

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[Christine]

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[Allison]

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[Christine]

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[Allison]

Everyone's always trying to take everyone's money. I'm sick of it. Like those big cell phone carriers, are you kidding me? They're like, well, this is another fee for what? I don't. It's none of your business.

[Christine]

I do feel shut out of my own money because I'm like, why takes me off. If you're going to rob me, then at least tell me why.

[Allison]

Totally. At least have some class. You know what I'm saying?

[Christine]

Classy. Be classy. Traditional big wireless carriers, they always seem to be taking our money like we just said. But after years of overpaying for wireless, you know, know, we're, we're fed up. We're fed up.

[Allison]

Stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been.

[Christine]

The bogus fees, the free per. Free perks. I Think so.

[Allison]

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[Christine]

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[Allison]

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[Christine]

Okay, so hopefully this is the end of it all. It never is. But this is part two of the old Washoe Club.

[Allison]

Okay, okay.

[Christine]

This, this section in particular is just the Zach Baggins coverage of this because it was too much for me to cover in the, in the first part.

[Allison]

Okay, great, great.

[Christine]

To give people a catch up on the old Washoe Club. I will be butchering this catch up, but I'm giving you very quick bullet points, is that this was a very fancy millionaires club in Nevada during like the silver mining explosion, the boom if you will. It started as this really grand place in one location. Then a fire burnt down immediately after. Then it got built above the still standing oldest saloon in the area. Then that went out and it became like offices and apartments for a while and the saloon still exists. The saloon is also still haunted. So the club, for a while it has been or for a long while now it's been known as incredibly haunted. They have ghosts such as the lady in blue named Lena who was maybe killed by a woman who found out that she was sleeping with her husband.

[Allison]

Oh right on the stairs.

[Christine]

On the stairs, yes. There's a spiral staircase there. There are little kids who got hit by horse and wagons and then ended up dying in the building. There is a man who died by self inflicted gunshot wound. Downstairs in the saloon there is a room called the crypt because it Temporarily stayed as a morgue for a while and is now just a storage room in the bar. But in there is that ghost, Randall, who looks like the monsters Inc. Randall, and he crawls all over the walls.

[Allison]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. No, no, thank you.

[Christine]

It's a big no. It's a big no. And then a series of other ghosts, surely. So, yeah, that's my very quick, half as hardly situation there.

[Allison]

I remember it well.

[Christine]

Okay, so now this is. I don't know how much of it I said to you or how much of it I said in my own head. So I'm just going to kind of word vomit and sorry if this is repetitive to people, but as we talked about at the beginning of this ZBCU timeline, there, the original, original, original Ghost Adventures was a 2004 documentary of Zach going through different locations in Nevada trying to find ghosts after he just came face to face with one and he's

[Allison]

like, where are they?

[Christine]

And so I watched that documentary and last time I thought I gave you a full recap on that, that I was wrong. I gave you a recap of only the location, the Goldfield Hotel. I apparently only watched that section because it was relevant to the topic at the time. I had no idea it would. This would all balloon into me talking about multiple locations. So I'm now here to talk about another portion of the documentary.

[Allison]

Oh, so this was in the documentary.

[Christine]

This location was in the documentary. It was just not the part that had the mind blowing brick being thrown at the Goldfield Hotel experience. That, that was like a huge portion of the documentary. The other parts were much smaller. So remember I told you, I know this was a while ago, so I'm sorry to make you jog your memory on this, but remember I told you during the original documentary it was just Nick and Zack and Aaron for some reason wasn't there.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Christine]

Even though he was like in random clips I saw of like the promo of it and he was clearly there, but he wasn't for some reason. The Colfalto talk. Okay, so we have cracked the case on that. I just needed to watch the rest of the movie and Aaron was there. He just was not there for the Goldfield Hotel investigation.

[Allison]

Okay, okay.

[Christine]

But he was there for earlier locations, including the old Washoe Club. So disregard me if you go back to that episode, like maybe five episodes ago now, please disregard me saying he was not in the documentary.

[Allison]

Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. Because he had like left early or something. Or like.

[Christine]

Yeah, I forget. Yeah, we made some sort of joke about like oh, he must have left because they weren't finding any ghosts and he was fed up or something. But.

[Allison]

And then Zach was like, no, I'm gonna prove it and get all the ghosts I can and blame Eren for

[Christine]

it, which I do like that storyline more. But it has now been proven that he just wasn't there for some reason.

[Allison]

Debunked.

[Christine]

So, for those who care, if you were to watch the original 2004 documentary, Ghost Adventures, the Goldfield Hotel starts at minute 38 and goes all the way to the end.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Christine]

The first 38 minutes have a few locations, but the Washoe club is minute 14 to 38.

[Allison]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Christine]

In case you care about time codes here. So we're talking about from 14 to 38 here. By the way, now that I've gone back, I clicked the same link to watch that documentary again from the last time I did, and I. The comments have updated since then because it's been a few weeks, and apparently people who listened to our episode about the documentary then watched it there and left comments. And then. So then I got to watch. I. I would have never known if I didn't have to reclaim. Shut the up the link. So shout out to Chef and Alexandra for leaving comments that they only found this through atwd.

[Allison]

Hey, that makes me so happy.

[Christine]

I know. I would have not known that.

[Allison]

Spreading the love out in the world,

[Christine]

the effects we cause.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So my favorite thing about this, I cannot confirm this. I feel like you have better snooping skills than I do, so maybe you would be able to find it. But in this clipping of the documentary where they're talking about the old Washoe Club, they show like a. You know, sometimes they show like a still image, and it kind of just sits there for a second. It was of a news article from the Associated Press talking about how the. The exact phrasing was, spirited bar, target of visit.

[Allison]

Spirited bar, target of visit. Okay.

[Christine]

Which apparently. I don't know if this was the first, but it was at least one of the first news articles that would. Talked about the ghost hunters. Ah, three local ghost hunters coming to check this place out.

[Allison]

Descending upon us. Yes.

[Christine]

The first line of the article, which I was able to see on the. The screenshot was, three Ghostbusters from Reno plan to show up today at the old Washoe Club saloon whose owner is complaining about spirits who are getting pushy and scaring people.

[Allison]

Wow.

[Christine]

They did. This is. I'm only bringing this up because if you are better at snooping than I am, maybe you can help Me. But I could not find that article anywhere. And I have a newspaper account. But so it was. It literally the title is Spirited Bar Target a Visit. And then I. I say that whole line because I looked all that up, and I couldn't find it anywhere. So I'm like, was that. That was. They wouldn't fake a news article. That's crazy.

[Allison]

Okay. I mean, if anyone would fake a news article. But I don't. Allegedly.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

I don't say what newspaper that is.

[Christine]

The Associated Press.

[Allison]

Oh, it says Associated Press. Oh, Jesus.

[Christine]

I know. So I was like, where is this three Ghostbusters?

[Allison]

I love that.

[Christine]

I love that they were still so new, though, that they had to go by that they didn't have a name yet.

[Allison]

I know. It's not like, television superstar, you know, Humble beginnings. Wow.

[Christine]

So, okay, so Zach says that the second and third floors are super haunted and just happen to be off limits. So I don't know if. Was he not allowed up there? Was. He seemed like he wasn't allowed up there. It. Then at some point, it did become accessible for people who went on tours. I don't know if it's still accessible. You and I spoke about how we would not touch that staircase because it was very old and didn't have a

[Allison]

supporting pull through it. I think so. No. No.

[Christine]

So one of the other things that I thought was really funny is just. It shows you truly the humble beginnings of Zach Bagans where things freak him out so quickly because they are talking about the stairs, and they're just barely on the stairs, and one of them has chills. And that was enough for Zach to say, let's get the out of here. Literally, he was.

[Allison]

Because he had chills. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

He literally says, let's get Nick and get out of here. Those are. That's his quote.

[Allison]

Wow. He. He's grown.

[Christine]

I know. But, like, also, I don't know what stage I'm in in my ghost hunting, but that alone would also make me want to leave. But I'm just a scaredy cat at. But I was like, oh, it's nice that somewhere in the timeline, Zach and I could have gone ghost hunting together and both just been freaked out enough to just get the hell out of Dodge.

[Allison]

Totally been on the same wavelength. Yeah.

[Christine]

Without judgment. Yeah.

[Allison]

Wow. That's a beautiful thought, Em.

[Christine]

They then heard a little girl's voice, and then at 19:27, in case you care about the time code, since people do actually go watch these things after we talk about them, this is where they had like, their best. Their best footage of the night in this location. So at Goldfield Hotel was the brick getting thrown, and that got much more play. But in, in here, they got an apparition of something walking across the room. Like, follow. So Nick was in the room and then he leaves. And then this apparition follows Nick out of the frame. And I will say it is actually as long as it wasn't tampered with. And I don't know anything about that, but it does look like you can see the legs walking like this.

[Allison]

I don't like that. I mean, listen, I'm always like, the doubt. Not always, obviously, especially with zb. But like, I, I don't know, I feel like that would be a wild thing to just. If I find out the newspaper article was faked, then I might believe that this part was faked. If. But otherwise I'm like, I, I believe that they caught something creepy.

[Christine]

Like, I think so. And I, I think originally a lot of people thought, oh, it might be Nick's shadow because if he just walked out of frame and now you're seeing walking behind him. But I, I guess they were able to debunk that in some way. I don't totally understand, but it did. It looked odd. It certainly was. So they did have video analysts check it out who said it wasn't tampered with. But I never know if I believe that.

[Allison]

Yeah, right.

[Christine]

But between that clip and the AP

[Allison]

News reported, it is what I heard.

[Christine]

Right. Between that clip of something walking by and the clip of the brick getting thrown later in the documentary, I can see why he got a TV deal.

[Allison]

I mean. Yeah. And especially because that was such a new thing. Like, people, people were like, oh, that's kind of creepy. What is this all about? Like, I don't believe in ghosts, but, you know, and now it's just so much more acceptable.

[Christine]

I fully agree. I. If, if it were like today, I think he might have gotten like one news outlet asking about it and then no one would have ever heard about again. Or it would like, go viral on Tick Tock and we'd never hear about it again.

[Allison]

Yeah, no, totally. He would. I mean, not to like, don't ever tell him I said this, but he's kind of a visionary.

[Christine]

You know, the way that I have said, there is evidence somewhere out there on this podcast of me saying he is a business mogul. He.

[Allison]

Oh, big time.

[Christine]

I don't care for some of his behaviors, but I gotta pat him on the back for really coming in at the right Time.

[Allison]

He is a successful.

[Christine]

He is. I can't. You can't deny that.

[Allison]

So anyway, this can't be debunked.

[Christine]

This clip, like, the brick clip, did get a lot of news coverage. I think the brick one was the one that was the big famous one. This one did get on news outlets. And I tried finding those clips. I could not. But they did show, like. Like, little pieces of the clips in the documentary.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Christine]

So I know that they exist. And I thought it would be so funny because it. It literally is just the. At the time, they didn't have any muscles or anything. It was just three lanky men just kind of sitting in an. In a news.

[Allison]

Like Ghostbusters from Reno, Nevada.

[Christine]

They were sitting on these little bar stools, like, getting interviewed, and they all looked like they weren't, like, familiar with cameras. It was very cute.

[Allison]

My God, they're so, like, like, nervous.

[Christine]

One of them was actually, I just. I titled it in case people wanted to try to Google it for themselves. But it was Las Vegas One was the channel. They interviewed Zach, and I will say his final form did show itself a little bit there because he. I think this was a clip in the documentary. He was very intense with the interviewer for no fucking reason.

[Allison]

Oh, God. So he's like. You can see him evolving.

[Christine]

Literally, like the second he got one ounce of evidence and then someone put a camera in front of him to

[Allison]

ask about it, it began like, the formula began to. Yeah. Take hold. That's.

[Christine]

There were signs early on.

[Allison]

There were signs we should have seen it.

[Christine]

So that's all that we got from the documentary. But since then, as you've mentioned, he did go back and do two more episodes on his later to be very popular Ghost Adventures TV show.

[Allison]

Right, right.

[Christine]

So I'm gonna talk about both those episodes.

[Allison]

Okay, great.

[Christine]

And I would like to also formally apologize to people who don't like the fact that some of these episodes have just become recap episodes. But I can't control what happens when Zach Bagans is slam dunkin everywhere. All of a sudden, it's his world different.

[Allison]

We're just living in it. We're just trying to survive. Okay.

[Christine]

I'm actively trying to get out of the zbcu, as I've discussed. So, like, just hang in there for, like, this episode, and then we'll get back to our programming.

[Allison]

If I'm being, like, fully honest, I feel like I'm the one holding on a little too tight. You know, I mean, I'm having a

[Christine]

good time, but I'm Also trying to keep the masses happy. You know what I'm saying? I get it.

[Allison]

I get it. It's a hard balance.

[Christine]

It's tough. It's a really so tough. Thank you, everyone, for your patience. So two episodes of Ghost Adventures. One of them is in 2009, which was five years after the documentary came out.

[Allison]

Wow.

[Christine]

So it was season somehow. Season three, I guess there was a couple years before the show actually took off from the documentary.

[Allison]

He had to get his wardrobe figured out first.

[Christine]

He needed to grow a couple muscles, get his attitude, like, out of check.

[Allison]

Like, really up his own attitude.

[Christine]

And so in 2009, it is season three in episode six. I hate to report that I only found it on Prime Video. Video. So sorry.

[Allison]

Oh, yuck. But I mean, you know, gotta do what you gotta do.

[Christine]

The other one was nine years later in 2018, not too long ago in my brain, even though it was actually, like, eight years ago.

[Allison]

Oh, yikes. Yeah, that's when I got married. That feels ancient now.

[Christine]

A lifetime ago. But really, the number doesn't add up. To me, that was season 20, which he moves very fast if he win for that's 17. 17 seasons in nine years. That man, I'm telling you, business mogul.

[Allison]

I mean, and that was, like, the second year of our podcast. So it's like, Jesus Christ. We're getting. We're smoked.

[Christine]

It was season 20, episode three, and it's called the Final Chapter. Of course.

[Allison]

Of course. It's always the Final chapter. Yes.

[Christine]

And you know what? When he went back to the Goldfield Hotel, if you remember, that episode was called the Final Chapter.

[Allison]

It's never the Final Chapter. Let's be so for real.

[Christine]

I feel like any location he went to in that documentary has since gotten a Final Chapter episode because he's just so sick of going there, you know?

[Allison]

And then on the final. On his deathbed, he's gonna say, this is the final Chapter. He's gonna come back as a ghost,

[Christine]

and it'll be called Another Resurrection.

[Allison]

Like, oh, my God. With, like, all the, like, the goth font, you know?

[Christine]

Yes, yes. Okay, so the first episode I'm gonna talk about is the 2009 one, season three. They come back because the. They just called them at the time, the Investigators, Other investors.

[Allison]

Ghostbusters. Anymore. They're Investigators now.

[Christine]

No, no, hang on. I'm. I've said it wrong so far. You. You. You are on the right track based on how I said it. Hang on. Zach and his crew are giving a little, like, intro about why they're Going back after all this time, all five years ago, because newer investigators since then have been getting EVPs. And those investigators were the Constantinos.

[Allison]

I see.

[Christine]

So I think this is where he met them.

[Allison]

Oh, these new invest. Oh, wow. So, okay. Wow.

[Christine]

And as you mentioned in your episode about the Concertinos, they were very good at getting EVPs.

[Allison]

Wow. That's kind of mind boggling. Okay.

[Christine]

I know. It's really the watching. Watching the story all click. Finally.

[Allison]

Oh, yeah. It's a little freaky.

[Christine]

So, looking back, they did get some pretty good EVPs. And the EVPs they were getting, which attracted the Ghost Adventures crew and intrigued them enough to come back. Yeah. Was that these EVPs were saying the Ghost Adventures crew's names.

[Allison]

They were summoning them back five years later.

[Christine]

There's. And you know, Zach ate that up. He's like, they're still talking about me. Oh, my God.

[Allison]

He hit a couple muscles sprouted just when he heard them.

[Christine]

That. Yeah, he, like, his ears perked like a dog. What?

[Allison]

Yeah. Yes. His head tilted and he was coming for him. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

And you know what? I can't. I mean, I would be horrified. However, I got to be honest, my ego would be up a little bit if I found out that, like, my very first ghosts I ever hunted still think of me. I'd be like, oh, my God. Yeah, me too. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

I'm like, really? Oh, I mean, okay. I guess I'm pretty memorable. Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, if you had an Instagram, like, we would be following each other even if we don't talk. You know what I'm saying?

[Allison]

Right. We'd be checking up. Yeah, we'd be following. Yeah.

[Christine]

It's like an ex. It's like, well, I think of you, you think of me.

[Allison]

It's like, I know what you're up to. You know what I'm up to. Let's just leave it at that. Yeah.

[Christine]

I will say it was very odd to see the Constantinos after you had just told me the whole story of what happened to them.

[Allison]

It's weird. It's weird. Especially because that doesn't really get super divulged on any of the episodes.

[Christine]

I. I feel like I had my. My reality, or my perception of reality was very warped because I was, like, hyper vigilant, trying to find signs of what would later be, you know.

[Allison]

Yeah, hyper. Yeah. Because you're reading into everything. Right? I mean, a lot of. A lot of fans have talked on Reddit, like, oh, in this episode, if you see the way he talks it here, you know, like, I mean, they've been analyzed through and through by a ton of people. Yeah.

[Christine]

It was very. Just chilling to just see them interacting and not only knowing that. I mean, maybe. I don't know if they would consider themselves in love at the time or if. I don't know. Abuse is tricky, but it was weird to see them getting along, being a married couple, knowing that she was sitting next to her murderer, like, that was.

[Allison]

Oh, God, Em, you're right.

[Christine]

It was so weird.

[Allison]

Every time. It hits me every time. Time.

[Christine]

Like, it's like. It's. It was a weird way of, like, going back in time and knowing a murder is gonna happen and they're just hanging out.

[Allison]

It must be so, like, watching the episode where he went back. You know, the final chapter where he went back and taught, and, like, the way that they just all burst into tea. I mean, they were just sobbing in that one basement. And I was like, I think that they're, like, really traumatized. I mean, obviously, like, to have, like, a couple that, like, has a shared passion and a shared business and. And. And, you know, seemingly, obviously, on the surface, seem, you know, put together enough.

[Christine]

And the guilt, too, of, like, if I'm a stranger, like, looking for the hindsight, I can't imagine knowing, like, what did I miss? Or what. How could I have helped? Or even to be like, we're in this building right now when they would obviously be here with us, and they're not 100%.

[Allison]

That must just be, like, the most chilling feeling. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. So that was very interesting to watch. It definitely put an extra layer of creepy to the episode, which, under any other circumstances, I'd be like, well, that's great TV for a ghost show. But, like, it was just so dark. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

Yes.

[Christine]

Super morbid. So the EVPs that they played for the crew, because they all met up together to do the investigation, I guess. I guess. Together.

[Allison]

Right.

[Christine]

Or they. I'm sorry, I. I did watch this a while ago because we didn't record last week, so I'm trying to play catch up with myself here, but either the. The Constantinos investigated with them or were just involved in the walkthrough and played their EVPs for.

[Allison]

Okay, okay. But they were, like, in the episode.

[Christine]

They were in the episode, and the EVPs that they played for them said very clearly hate Nick, which Nick was the one that they walked behind. And the apparition that everyone saw.

[Allison]

Oh, yeah. That followed him. Oh, ew.

[Christine]

So that's creepy.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Christine]

Then got Nick Groff. So full name.

[Allison]

Why they hate him so much.

[Christine]

That becomes a running joke in this episode.

[Allison]

It is pretty funny, unfortunately.

[Christine]

I love that it's not Zach for once. I mean.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's kind of funny that it's not.

[Christine]

Then they did. They got Zach, look out. And then very creepy. And feels a little too good to be true. As someone who's, you know, it feels. It feels a little too scary to me. Okay, Nick, Zach. Coming. They're scaring me. I don't know what it means, but it's a string of words that freaks me out. Out.

[Allison]

Okay. You know, and we don't talk about our ghost hunts that often, but like, you know, when we're on a ghost investigation and we hear something like, really scary that's like, you're in danger, run or something where like. And it like bypasses almost your prefrontal cortex and like your body's like before you even, like. So like that's one of those sentences where I'd be like, I'm the out of here. I don't know what it means. I don't like, really understand the syntax or grammar of this thread.

[Christine]

I know enough to know that shouldn't be here.

[Allison]

Totally. My nervous system is on alert now. Thank you.

[Christine]

Yeah, agree.

[Allison]

Get it.

[Christine]

Because coming. They're scaring me. It's like, wouldn't you want to be scaring them?

[Allison]

Yeah, you're coming for them.

[Christine]

Or they're coming back to the house. Like, what?

[Allison]

Like I want to yell, speak on that. But like, not really. Don't speak on that. I don't want to know.

[Christine]

Well, then they, during their walk through, they interview one of the bartenders down in the saloon because they know that downstairs is also still haunted. Wanted. And the bartender literally tells them. So creepy that quote, the matchbooks roll down the bar like, like a square. Like, this is my phone. But like a square. Like they flop like this down.

[Allison]

Flip over.

[Christine]

Yeah, okay.

[Allison]

Hello?

[Christine]

No, thanks. Okay.

[Allison]

I don't like that very much at all.

[Christine]

The bartender then says, it's always the fourth bar stool, but it always falls by itself, which can confirm from somebody else I mentioned in. In last week's episode.

[Allison]

And it's always weird to me when it's the same one because I'm like, who's. Whose stool was that?

[Christine]

You know, like, was that your favorite stool? Or are you. Is it just a memory replaying? So you're always on stool?

[Allison]

Right? Is it like a one time thing? Maybe someone was so embarrassed they fell off the chair and it's just, like, haunted the bar ever since.

[Christine]

You know, literally haunting them.

[Allison]

It's. I mean, I. It would haunt me, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

[Christine]

100%. In the ballroom, I guess the. After the club closed and some of the spaces upstairs got reconverted, it became a ballroom. A psychic saw a man in a dark jacket who likes to kill.

[Allison]

Okay, again, a little too good to

[Christine]

be true for me.

[Allison]

This seems like a little. Wow, that's. Thank you. That's a nice introduction.

[Christine]

If he's telling the truth. Horrifying.

[Allison]

Like, is there not anything else that you, like, maybe to introduce yourself before killing?

[Christine]

Like, no. You didn't see any other ghost? Just the killer. That's a little too good to be true for me.

[Allison]

Oh. I'm thinking that the ghost is just like, hi, I'm so and so. And I like to kill. And the medium's like, that's quite an introduction. Wow. Yeah. Either way, it's rough.

[Christine]

I guess it would be the person, like, that has the most energy that would. That you would see.

[Allison]

So.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Yeah. I like to kill. Oh, my God. And then they disappear. And you're like, what? A ghost hunt can be really scary. You guys are only saying that.

[Christine]

You're like, any corner I turn, they could be there.

[Allison]

I mean, it's like the crawler in that one place. Or like, randall, it's like, where are you? I don't like when you disappear.

[Christine]

There's. Oh, my dog is outside. How'd that happen?

[Allison]

That's fascinating.

[Christine]

Something's happened. Whatever. Not my job. Something's happened. Allison's on it. I'm sure.

[Allison]

I'm sure.

[Christine]

So the crypt. Can't forget the crypt. The temporary morgue can't forget it. People have walked in and seconds later had to run out vomit and then refuse to come back in or say what they saw.

[Allison]

Holy shit.

[Christine]

That's pretty telling. The vomit always gets me. I'm like, that one. You can't totally hide. Hide.

[Allison]

I. Yeah. And that feels like an intense thing to invent or, like, to fabricate 100%. I'm like, that one can see it.

[Christine]

That one's too dramatic. Like, if you. If you make that up, you're. You need.

[Allison]

You need to see a psych. Yeah. You need, like, more help than I can give you. Yeah.

[Christine]

During the walkthrough, they also go back into the room where the infamous apparition happened. And during. This comes during this scene where they go back into the room because, of course, it's the walkthrough. So Zach is a little cocky about how the night's gonna go huh?

[Allison]

Huh?

[Christine]

This scene, fun fact for everybody, is where we get the famous line in the NOW intro. You wanted us, you got us.

[Allison]

No, that's dope. I remember hearing that.

[Christine]

And I went, I know that one.

[Allison]

That's delightful. I'm so happy we found the origin story.

[Christine]

I would like to eventually find all of the clips that make up.

[Allison]

Yeah. Remember when I watched every single episode just looking for certain words to make you a pregnancy announcement video?

[Christine]

I. I still think it was probably one of the greatest gifts I've ever been given.

[Allison]

The sick part is that, like, I watched so much of it, but I didn't internalize it because I was listening to every single word. So I was watching it, like, from this weird, sick perspective of someone who didn't, like, comprehend the sentences. But just, like. So, like, a lot was happening and I. I'm certain I watched a lot of stuff that I have no memory of because I was just, like, parsing every word, looking for, like, pregnant, you

[Christine]

know, I will say in. In the world of gifts that require effort, I don't think it'll ever be matched. That was like, you had to. You had to put yourself into psychosis, I think.

[Allison]

Well, it's because I. It's called pregnancy, and I was in pregnancy and I was not allowed to drink. Right. So I was like, I need to fixate on something to, like, any crutch will do. My God. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. I. Still, to this day, I. I think about it every now and then and I go, that was a really thoughtful gift.

[Allison]

It has a lot of YouTube videos, which is so weird because, like, I kind of tried to forget about it instantly after I did it. And it does still have quite a view viewership, so you have to be proud of yourself. That was the Maltese Baggins. Forgot what it was called.

[Christine]

That was. I mean, I. I'm just gonna keep repeating myself, but thank you a thousand times for that one.

[Allison]

Oh, well, also, I'm sorry a thousand times for that. Oh, you're also welcome.

[Christine]

You really set the bar. Like, now I feel like I. And I. It's in a link. I could literally send it to people and be like, this is what I expect.

[Allison]

So, so sick of me here. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[Christine]

So what else happened? They hear a male voice, they smell cigar smoke, which is implied to be the bad guy who likes to kill. They. Oh, then, oh, this was. This part is pretty good. They ask for the ghosts to show themselves, and then something gets thrown at them.

[Allison]

That's pretty a break.

[Christine]

Brick.

[Allison]

I think a rock.

[Christine]

I think it was like a pebble.

[Allison]

Still not good.

[Christine]

During a spirit box session, they. I. I'm so glad I put this note for myself. This was a spirit box session. But because this was even only five years after their documentary, it's still 2009. Before, like, Ghostwing's a big thing. They called the spirit box new tech. It was like, their first time ever using a spirit box.

[Allison]

Wow. They don't know Bill Chapel yet, huh?

[Christine]

I literally. Yes, yes. That's exactly right. And they got the words help, listen, and trouble.

[Allison]

Wow.

[Christine]

Creepy but vague. And then at 3:00am oh, okay. I'm glad I put this in for myself, too. Thanks. PASM. At 3am The Constantinos join them. Oh. To do an EVP session.

[Allison]

Okay. Okay.

[Christine]

So Zach feels something. Step forward. They do a little EVP session, and when they play it back, they got an EVP that says, it was me. Me. Yuck.

[Allison]

Gasp.

[Christine]

Then they ask, how does it feel now that Ghost Adventures is back? The EVP says, we're not scared of them.

[Allison]

Oh.

[Christine]

They then say, tell us how many of you are here? They get an EVP that says, better not. Yuck. Then they said, do you follow? Did you follow Nick home yesterday? They don't really give context, but I'm assuming Nick felt creeped out. Out after their first walkthrough.

[Allison]

Yeah, it hates him.

[Christine]

Yeah. So did you follow Nick home yesterday? The EVP says, yeah. And then they say, was it to scare him? And then the EVP jokingly says, never.

[Allison]

Never. I would never do such a thing.

[Christine]

Little on me.

[Allison]

Oh, little homie.

[Christine]

They then hear footsteps upstairs and immediately get an EVP that says, nick, go home.

[Allison]

Home. I. They really don't like this guy, man. This poor guy.

[Christine]

Literally. The next question, who is this message for? And they get an EVP that says, I hate Nick.

[Allison]

This kid, he can't get away because,

[Christine]

like, I don't even want to be here. Okay.

[Allison]

I'm just, like, shocked that Nick's the one who's getting all the hate.

[Christine]

I know. And, like, the irony, by the way, is that the only reason they're back is because the ghosts keep saying their names. It's like, if you just kept my name out of your mouth, I wouldn't be here.

[Allison]

Totally. Keep. Keep Nick's name out of your mouth.

[Christine]

Like, I'm only here because you're. You want to fight, let's fight. You know what I'm saying?

[Allison]

100%.

[Christine]

So Aaron starts doing the whole, like, oh, energy is draining out of me thing, and he's fading in and out, and he's acting really weird.

[Allison]

They get into Zach or Nick saying. Doing that Aaron. Oh, Aaron. Sorry. He feels left out.

[Christine]

He starts getting woozy. And then they get an EVP that says, it's only me.

[Allison]

Ew, that. And it makes me think it's, like, on air, on Aaron. Like, it's only me, like, giving you a hug.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah.

[Allison]

God.

[Christine]

Like, nothing to worry about. It's just me walking through your body. When they ask to. When they ask the ghost to yell their names if they want the crew to leave. Like, it's like, if you don't want us here, then say our names one more time. Something yanks on Zach's shirt, and at the same moment, they get an EVP that says groff, which is Nick's last name. Name.

[Allison]

Holy. They're like, we only know one name.

[Christine]

And you know what's.

[Allison]

So we're never gonna stop saying it.

[Christine]

You know what's so weird about this? And then I'll. The episode ends with them seeing a weird mist and they hear a voice, apparently. But then the episode ends. What I think is so weird about this, and I. I can't tell if it's a pat on the back to them or if it's like. I don't know what it's telling of, but they got a whole TV show because they got one apparition walking by. Meanwhile, all of this is so much scarier to me. Me. And it was just like a random episode. Like. Like, it got. They got so much more out of this episode than. I don't know what it means, but

[Allison]

I think it means that, like, when they did the documentary, they were kind of, like, still amateurs. And, like. Yeah. Then when they did the show, they were like, we gotta step this up and really, like, get content. I don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah. I don't know. I. Maybe the. The pressure was on even more. Or like.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But it also begs the question, like, oh, well, if they're getting this kind of quality now after they have a TV show, like, are they faking any of.

[Allison]

Right, Exactly.

[Christine]

Or like, maybe it's on the flip side. Maybe it's a testament to, like, the power of digital recording devices on investigations

[Allison]

and having, like, multiple. Having the Constantinos there too. And who knows? Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. I don't know. I. It's something to think about, I guess, but I thought it was interesting. Okay, so that was the first episode of Ghost Adventures or the. The second time they've been There.

[Allison]

Their return. The first return.

[Christine]

The fight. The first chapter.

[Allison]

Chapter. Okay.

[Christine]

And now we're at the final chapter. This is their second episode of Ghost adventures or their third time being there.

[Allison]

Okay, great.

[Christine]

It's in 2018, a year into our podcast, and it really is a wonderful journey through the evolution of Ghost Adventures from 2004 to 2018. You can definitely see that the production budget has grown because in 2018, they're now doing the intense, unnecessary redramatizations.

[Allison]

Oh, my God. Like crazy, like twitching girl with her necks cracked sideways. And I'm like, what's happening here?

[Christine]

I feel like it's always the same girl dressed in a different lady white outfit, and she's just twitching in a different way.

[Allison]

I mean, 100. I totally agree with you.

[Christine]

I feel like she. They probably had her do just like a hundred different positions that one day. And then they just use that B roll a different clip for every episode. And she got.

[Allison]

And then a different filter of like a different. Yeah. Lighting. Yeah, total.

[Christine]

So their reason for coming back, you wonder. Because last time it was that they. The EVPs were calling for them.

[Allison]

Right.

[Christine]

This time. Calling for them this time. A quote from Zach Bagans himself. I've been getting messages and visions and dreams of coming back here. That's the reason. That's the. Wow. Then he says, this is the last time that we're ever going to come back here. Okay, okay.

[Allison]

Famous last words.

[Christine]

Now this is where I have to. I've. We've never had to do this before in the podcast where I have to call back to your episode about the Constantinos. About my episode about the documentary. It's a. It's a real mind right now. But you actually watched some of this episode.

[Allison]

Yes, Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

[Christine]

Okay, so in this part, I'm going to be. Be actually calling back to things you mentioned about the episode.

[Allison]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Christine]

Does that make sense?

[Allison]

Yes. Okay.

[Christine]

So as you mentioned, the last time when you were watching this episode, it really seemed to bother you, and I'd actually forgotten that you said anything because it bothered me separately. And then I went, oh, yeah, Christine said the same thing. I don't remember when Zach says, this is a place that left its mark on me, both both physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally.

[Allison]

Dumb as. Dude, come on.

[Christine]

So silly. But you said it. And I. And I on my own, I went. That didn't sound right to me.

[Allison]

Still triggers me. Okay. I'm. I'm like, come on.

[Christine]

Both you. Both and. And yet. Both again.

[Allison]

Yeah, both. And both and both. Yeah.

[Christine]

So you also mentioned that in this episode, as they're walking through the location, which. How many times can you walk through the same location? I say, as I've covered the Winchester mystery house, like six times, as we've

[Allison]

walked through that a million times. Yeah.

[Christine]

But, yeah, they found a way to do it again, and this time it was. They were able to film something different, which you remember was the display of items from their first investigation is now just sitting out for people to see when they visit this place.

[Allison]

Okay. Yeah. So it's just so funny. It's like a museum exhibit.

[Christine]

Yeah. They had like. Like, like Aaron's visor, like you said. They had like a camera that they

[Allison]

got the apparition that says like the town's name or whatever. I'm like, what are you guys doing?

[Christine]

Well, and it's. I'm glad that I saw the original documentary now, because when you talked about it, you were saying like, oh, and one of the original cameras from when they went ghost hunting. Oh, I can now update you and say that was the camera they got the apparition on.

[Allison]

Oh, that's the apparition one. Okay. Okay.

[Christine]

Yes. So basically, I guess the information had come out in between 2009 and 2018, when they last filmed there. But in this episode, they bring in new history that says in the 1870s, there was an explosion that killed 12 people and body parts were in the street. It was very morbid and gross.

[Allison]

Whoa.

[Christine]

They got really? Yeah, I mentioned that in the previous episode, and I had had seen that information from different areas. I didn't know that it got covered in ghost adventures right away when I said that.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But I guess now they're up to date and they're now talking about that in this. So maybe that's their new angle in this episode of like, did these people die in an explosion?

[Allison]

Yes. Okay.

[Christine]

Now room 12 is called the Demonic Spirits Room. Things have really changed since they got a little. This house is very similar to Zach, where they. The ego go. Boosted itself. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

It really. The attitude needed. No. Needs a lot of adjusting, but it's too late. It's far too late for that.

[Christine]

Yeah. It used to just be a random place that nobody ghost hunted at. And now all of a sudden, we've got the Demonic spirits Room, you know?

[Allison]

Yeah. Now it's on display behind glass. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. So the reason they call it the Demonic Spirits Room is because at least 26 people at the time had been scratched here, including a young girl.

[Allison]

Jeez.

[Christine]

As we just mentioned. And by this time that they're filming the final chapter, the Constantinos have passed. So that becomes a big story arc here where they are while investigating. I understand, like, it was technically, like, for tv, that they were probably expected to talk about the Constantinos a lot.

[Allison]

Right.

[Christine]

But it is also, like, really, it's not their fault, but it was really awkward to see them, like, clearly mid grieving or if they had already grieved their. Now. Now, like, opening up old wounds for tv.

[Allison]

Completely agreed. Completely agreed.

[Christine]

It was very weird because I was like, you. You clearly actually did care about these people. And, like, you can't feel good talking about this.

[Allison]

But, yes, they were, like, actively grieving on air, and it was like, whoa.

[Christine]

Like, they were holding each other and crying. And it was like, usually if Zach is crying in a haunted house, like, I want to laugh about that. And this really had this plucked me out of.

[Allison]

Of the situation. Completely agree. And I also feel like it was a little bit of,

[Christine]

like, I feel

[Allison]

like they try to spin it, like, oh, my gosh, the ghost. It must be the ghost. And I'm like, no, you're all just traumatized, babe. Like, you're in a place where people you really liked and. And cared for met here and met here. Like, of course you're fucking crying. Yeah. So it's kind of odd. It's like. It's like. Like, I feel like I'm, like, not supposed to be seeing it, you know, it's like. Yeah, it's like a little personal.

[Christine]

Felt a little intimate.

[Allison]

Intimate.

[Christine]

Yeah. I was shocked that they were so open about just crying instead of, like, the class exact thing would be to be angry, you know?

[Allison]

Me too. Yes. Or blame something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

It was just a weird episode. But I don't think they. I don't think it's their fault. It was just.

[Allison]

No, I think there was probably no way to make it not weird, you know, because, like, obviously this is a deeply traumatic thing. Like, there's no way around it.

[Christine]

Percent so since Ghost Adventures is now so famous at this location, you mentioned this that during their walk through. I'm just going to read exactly what my notes say because I want to make sure I get this right. Since Ghost Adventures is so famous at this location and tours constantly mention the show, maybe Zach is getting the dreams he mentioned of why he's coming back. Back. I have these visions and dreams.

[Allison]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine]

Maybe these dreams are because the spirits are annoyed with him. That's one theory. They're like, maybe the spirits Were like, can you shut the up? Everyone that comes through here is talking about you, and we already hate you.

[Allison]

Oh. And they're like, God, we have to hear about you forever and ever. Well, why don't they hate. Hate Nick anymore?

[Christine]

That's a great point. I don't know. Maybe they said everyone. After you hear him, you just hear it over and over. It's like, oh, my God.

[Allison]

I feel like Nick didn't get much of a display in the display case.

[Christine]

You know, Isn't that funny that he was the most hated? Maybe they couldn't. Maybe if whatever they put in there would just get, like, messed with.

[Allison]

Oh, wait. Also, doesn't Nick not have a good relationship with Zach anymore? Didn't he write a book about it?

[Christine]

Yes.

[Allison]

Oh, that was a long time ago, though.

[Christine]

No, no, no, you're right. Nick is no longer on the episode. He's not here anymore.

[Allison]

Oh. So maybe they. Oh, my God. Imagine this behind the scenes in all the footage they didn't use. It's just like, Nick Groff. Nick Groff. And Zach's like, talk about me.

[Christine]

What if Zach called them in advance and said, get rid of anything that Nick. Nick was a part of?

[Allison]

Like, yeah, we don't want to talk about anything. Nick, that's off.

[Christine]

Like, in the display cabinet. Whatever he had in there, get rid

[Allison]

of it off the table.

[Christine]

Actually, that sounds so on.

[Allison]

Brand feels like they're probably still blabbing on about him. And Zach's like, no.

[Christine]

Well, so during just the walk through, Aaron starts feeling really hostile. Now we've got, like, Billy and Jay and, like, remember Dakota? May his relationship with Zach rest in peace as well. I think it was Dakota's first investigation, or it was their first investigation. Like, there at least.

[Allison]

Gosh.

[Christine]

And Zach says they won't go into the upper floors until they investigate, purely because, like, during the walkthrough, they're not even going to go upstairs because Aaron is already feeling so tense and that something's already affecting him. He's like, let's just hang out down here. So we get the first real reactions upstairs when we're investigating.

[Allison]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Christine]

And his quote about this is, in spite, which I think he meant despite. In spite of my decision to not go near the upper floors. We move to the crypt, which opens up to the second floor. So he's like, I know I just said that we're not going up there, but I'm going to, like, around with

[Allison]

the area anyway, despite my own rules about it. I'm. In spite of My rules. I'm going to. Yeah. What the.

[Christine]

They reach up with a boom mic, which I think you would probably remember this scene, but they decided.

[Allison]

Oh, I do, actually, they.

[Christine]

So they refused to go upstairs, but they were still going to, like, put equipment upstairs.

[Allison]

So we've done that. We're, like, scared of the basement. Let's just toss a camera down, and someone else will get it later. Eva.

[Christine]

So basically, they took, like, a really tall pole that had a microphone at the end of it, and they stuck it. They reached their hands all the way up there, and they stuck their. Their microphone over to the second floor. So they're on the first floor, but they're holding the microphone that's hitting the second floor, and they start asking questions and hope that something will get caught on the microphone.

[Allison]

Okay. Clever, I guess.

[Christine]

And they immediately hear a thud on the microphone, which is like. It's a pretty big thud, but I'm kind of wondering if they just bonked the microphone on something.

[Allison]

I remember that thud. It was pretty damn loud. I was.

[Christine]

Zach Biggins asks if they've been sending him messages, and then a pebble gets thrown onto them from the second floor.

[Allison]

Yeah, that was weird. It did kind of just fall from up there.

[Christine]

Horrific.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Zach then asks if they want to show themselves, and another rock gets thrown. So I love that. This guy just has, like, a bucket of rocks. He's like, I'm ready to do this all night long.

[Allison]

He's just choosing one little one at

[Christine]

a time, though they later learned that the boom mic actually caught EVPs of voices so close to the microphone that you can't make out the words. Like, it's popping. During this, Aaron says that he keeps getting flashes of the Constantinos, which, like, is the beginning of the whole, like, grieving scene.

[Allison]

Yep. Yep.

[Christine]

And then he feels something touch his head really hard, and you see him react. Like something hit him. They believe that the Constantinos have entered the chat from the beyond. And basically, they feel like that is confirmed for them when they play back the EVP later. And the voice that they had been hearing, hearing was Debbie's.

[Allison]

Oh, that was freaky. I. That was freaky.

[Christine]

Does sound like Debbie's.

[Allison]

They really were, like, thrown by that. Yeah. That was scary.

[Christine]

And I could see why that would trigger totally again, like, oh, my God, I told my friend's voice, who's dead.

[Allison]

Oh, my God. I mean.

[Christine]

And then that turned into, like, a. I mean, again, it was, like, one of those things where, like, I was just genuinely creeped out because it was Like a ghost evidence. But also I was like, oh, but I don't. I feel weird heard being spooked when, like, I feel like I should. I'm watching a tender moment, you know?

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah. It is weird. It's like, how do you even approach this? Yeah,

[Christine]

here's where we get into. I think this was the last scene you watched and then you turned it off so that way I could tell you more about it.

[Allison]

Yes. Yeah.

[Christine]

Do you know what scene I'm about to talk about?

[Allison]

Remind me. I will.

[Christine]

When you say was before the investigation and they need to kill some time. So they go, oh, my God.

[Allison]

Oh, my God, this is the best part. Oh, my God. They go to make candy chocolate turtles

[Christine]

out of candy chocolate turtles.

[Allison]

And he's like, just being such a weird middle school boy.

[Christine]

It was. And then they had. There was a little boy there who was like, calling him out, being like, did you really make this or did you, like, watch someone else do it?

[Allison]

He literally was like, did you make this or did you just put it in the oven or something? I was like, whoa, Jesus.

[Christine]

My favorite part, which you left out, is that Zach mentions that yes, they're at a candy store and yes, he's making turtles, but he is on a sugar free diet.

[Allison]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine]

And he says. This is a quote. He says he's on a sugar free diet, which has a really bad side effect. Let's just say the effect. Let's just say the effect of sugar free candy is gastrointestinal and leave it at that. That.

[Allison]

Okay, so you, like, gave us everything. Thank you.

[Christine]

But also, like, why was that mentioned at all? I'd have to know what kind of like, you're. It already makes no sense that you're at a lady start making turtles. Like, now you're just going deeper. You're.

[Allison]

And now you're just changing the subject to something completely different. And also, like, yeah, okay, so maybe if in 10 minutes you're like, oh, I gotta run to the bathroom. Then it's like, okay, tie back. I see why they mention it. But like, it's just like, said. And then there's no mention.

[Christine]

Like, like, you could have just said we're making turtles, and then, like, posed with the turtles and then gone back

[Allison]

and been, like, silly. And it's like, oh, no, no, nobody asked.

[Christine]

It was not a storyline. It was just a 100.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So anyway, as you mentioned it. What? Zach offers one to a kid. The kid says, did you make it or just put the chocolate on? Anyway, so I wanted to make sure that I gave that the love that you. You mentioned.

[Allison]

Thank you. I'm glad you remember. I'm glad you remember or glad you mentioned the sugar free thing, because I

[Christine]

clearly, once I saw the Turtles, I went, well, I gotta write this down.

[Allison]

So, yeah, the Turtles is. Is out of control. I had to stop watching because I was like, this is actually like, I can't do this alone. I need to watch it first before I discuss it any further.

[Christine]

So back to the investigation, which thank you for letting me still give you an element of surprise here.

[Allison]

Oh, please.

[Christine]

Now they're at the investigation. Billy cares about being here a lot because apparently this location separately from the Ghost Adventures crew, this place made him a believer.

[Allison]

Oh, interesting.

[Christine]

Okay, so I guess it was the first place he got touched. And there were some, like, weird anomalies on camera. But also, this is where I put the note that Billy and Jay are now in the gross Ghost Avengers crew, which means Nick and Zach have had their big falling out. And Nick is no longer right there. So no more Nick hating evidence. But I did put time codes for people. If you would like to go back and watch the episode the final chapter. At 18:50, there is a EVP of a voice clearly saying all the time. And it sounds like a real ass person in the room, but they were. You can hear them talking and it was never there. And then they played this. The sound back at 1920, the same voice. It sounds like a real person in the room. They get an EVP sound saying, how do you know it's my name?

[Allison]

Ew.

[Christine]

And it had like a really thick accent, like a minor's accent. It was very weird. It was not anyone in the room.

[Allison]

Huh.

[Christine]

Zach then later feels something affecting him to a point where he just can't talk. Of course. And so at the same time that they are using the SLS and it catches a full body, which this is always. It's always creepy to me when the s. The sls, you cannot control that at all. The.

[Allison]

Yeah, because that's the stick figure one for people who aren't familiar.

[Christine]

So he's using the stick figure camera. They catch something at the exact same time. They got a spirit box female voice talking to them.

[Allison]

No.

[Christine]

And while upstairs, Zach says, do you want us to go upstairs? And the spirit boxes keep going.

[Allison]

No.

[Christine]

Zach asks, who's with us? And the spirit box says, I am.

[Allison]

Okay, don't be ridiculous. Who is this?

[Christine]

Zach is in one room and he thinks he sees someone in the camera and then gets a gross snarl on an evp. They then this one freaked me out. The door closes by itself and you can hear it slam behind them. And it's just the two of them up there.

[Allison]

I don't like that

[Christine]

earlier. This is. Okay. This is also like another grieving moment. Like it. There were two of those in this. This episode. I guess this is the main one. But basically earlier, Billy got. Did an EVP session and he got really emotional talking about his time here with the Constantinos. This one was the part that was really awkward to watch because he's just like breaking down and he's by himself because he's doing an EVP session. He's just standing there and they're just filming him just like crying, talking about his friendship with them. And I was like,

[Allison]

yeah.

[Christine]

During this, he actually caught Debbie's voice clearly saying, I feel like this is. This is. If you're gonna watch anything, this part is for sure worth it. It's at 3250. He got really emotional talking about the Constantinos as. And as he's breaking down, you can hear on the playback Debbie's voice specifically saying, Billy's upset. Okay. As if she's like, telling the other spirits to back off.

[Allison]

Holy.

[Christine]

We could straight up hear it. And it is for sure Billy's upset.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Christine]

Billy's upset. Okay.

[Allison]

That is chilling.

[Christine]

He's like, losing it and like, which, like, away from all of this, it's nice to know that there are some ghosts that are on your side like, that are.

[Allison]

Yeah, true. That are like, hey, give him some space.

[Christine]

But if you're having a bad day, there might be a spirit in the room, like telling the other ones to

[Allison]

back up, rallying for you. Yeah.

[Christine]

So this part is also super creepy. Like, you should go back. I. I'll send you the link to you at least.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Christine]

But you should go back and watch this clip on your own when you can. But at 3350, all four of them are in nerve center and, like, they're watching the empty rooms, the X cameras and there's. It's just that them. But upstairs, it is the longest, loudest footsteps for like a full minute. And, like, it's so funny to watch these, like four men immediately turn into, like, freaked out boys going like, what's going on? Like, they're. But they're trying to stay quiet. But their faces. It was. It is scary as the sound upstairs is.

[Allison]

Okay. I maintain to this day that hearing footsteps never sounds as scary as it actually is. Because when you are in a house and you know, there's no one there. And like, growing up, I'm sure you. Footsteps in your. Did you have footsteps growing up? Like at your house and my dad's, it was always the stairs right outside my bedroom. And it got. I got so used to it that, like, people would stay over and be like, who's coming upstairs? And I'm like, oh, that happens every night. But, like, you hear footsteps and it's like there is a person there. Like, you hear the person. It's not like, oh, I heard a little shuffle. Maybe it's a footstep. Like, you literally hear someone walking and

[Christine]

it's like, it's horrible. It's not.

[Allison]

You don't have wonderful.

[Christine]

You don't have to think like, oh, it's the floorboards creaking.

[Allison]

What could that be? There's no doubt.

[Christine]

Climbing the stairs.

[Allison]

No doubt.

[Christine]

That's what's happening in this se. In this episode, in this scene. And they're all freaking out and trying to stay quiet for the audio, but they're freaking out.

[Allison]

Right?

[Christine]

Which I like to think if the Constantinos are going to show up at all, like you would. You would hope as their friends. And you have a ghost TV show and all the five of you ever wanted to do when all of you were together is get evidence. Evidence. This is the moment for ghosts to appear. Because, like, they know what your intention is. They are your friends. They want you to succeed. They also wanted evidence. So from beyond the grave, they can now show you that evidence you like. This is the moment for them to step the fuck up.

[Allison]

Like, yes, yes. It's a big. The spotlight's on.

[Christine]

Like, Debbie, this is your moment. You know what I'm saying? Step forward so we kind of get a whiff of that coming up. So after they hear like these horrifying footsteps, of course, Zach sends Aaron up there alone and he uses the ovilus, which says the words shoot high and then it says door. Now the room that he's in is the room where someone died by a self inflicted gun. So we got shoot.

[Allison]

Oh, dear, oh dear.

[Christine]

And then hi. And then door, as if maybe he's the one who closed the door earlier.

[Allison]

Oh, oh, hi, I'm. Oh, no. Oh, no.

[Christine]

Now Billy then later hit one of the camera starts freaking out in a way that I have not seen on the show before. And when they go to check it out, something throws a quarter at them, coincidentally. Which at the time I was like, kind of like, all right, we're really playing into the storyline here. The Date on The quarter was 2015, which was the year that the Constantinos died.

[Allison]

Oh, my.

[Christine]

They really read into that. And they're like, holy. Maybe it's a sign from them. Them. So they turn the ovilus on and they get the word communicate. Zach then says, oh, like how they threw that quarter to communicate with us.

[Allison]

Right?

[Christine]

And then he talks about the quarter again. He's like, oh, that was a shiny new quarter. And the ovulus says, fresh. And Zach says, who was this a message to? The obvious said, you, Nick Groff.

[Allison]

You. Ah.

[Christine]

Zach then says, who was this a message from? And then the ovulus said, us. And when he says, what did you do with this quarter? The ovilus says these three words all one time.

[Allison]

Back to back.

[Christine]

Drop coins. Portal.

[Allison]

There's a portal.

[Christine]

Like, I don't know if you can see it. Anyway, goose camp.

[Allison]

It's slightly delayed, so I didn't. I thought maybe you had a bug on you, but you're doing. You're doing a goose cam.

[Christine]

Yeah, a goose cam moment.

[Allison]

I mean, same big time, but.

[Christine]

So that was just super eerie that, like, it's confirming that, like, we. Yeah, we're on the other side and we're trying to communicate with you. By throwing coins at you. Yes. They're fresh and shiny.

[Allison]

Holy, though, dude.

[Christine]

So anyway, I hope that nobody is an enemy towards spoilers, because this was just one big spoiler episode. But that is. It was an incredibly long episode. Thank you for holding out. That was the Washoe Club.

[Allison]

Wow.

[Christine]

The zbcu. And please, please don't ever make me talk about ZB ever again in my life.

[Allison]

Zbcu.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Allison]

Listen, it was worth it for my own enjoyment.

[Christine]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Allison]

I don't know if that. If anyone cares, but I care a lot.

[Christine]

I care a lot. I. I mean, I was happy to do it, but I'm aware that some people are probably like, can you not just do something? Like, retell someone else's fucking work?

[Allison]

Do. Well, come on. Come on, guys. That's what storytelling is.

[Christine]

Anyway, if you're a fan of what. Who Zach Baggins is and what he's done to us over the years, please. What he's done to us, just psychologically, as. As a group.

[Allison]

What he's done to all of us, spiritually, mentally. Yeah.

[Christine]

I hope that you really like that episode.

[Allison]

So I enjoyed it deeply, immensely. Thank you. Very good job, Em. So do you plan to go elsewhere next week? Thank you.

[Christine]

Then go next. Go anywhere next week.

[Allison]

Sorry. Go elsewhere with your Notes like, find your. So you are officially finding a new topic.

[Christine]

I'm officially finding a new topic. Unless I swear to God. And you're part two. You're like. And then Zach Bagan said about.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think the Dorothy Arnold part two, okay. Has any, but you never know. This man just finds a way, okay?

[Christine]

He finds a way. And I'm sure he'll appear in my other stories one day, but he'll make himself known.

[Allison]

Don't you worry.

[Christine]

Yeah. Maybe I'm not supposed to say this, but in the copy we received for this, it says, talk about someone you hired who was not only qualified, but also genuinely interested in your open role and how that influenced your decision to hire them.

[Allison]

Enter Eva, who A plus B equals

[Christine]

C. Immediately in our interview with her, we were like, tell us all about yourself. Also, like, casually, what sign are you, astrologically speaking?

[Allison]

Do you believe in ghosts? What's a weird story from your childhood? She fucking was ready. And let me tell you, we interviewed a few other people. Some of them were certainly not. And by the way, it was the same day.

[Christine]

Like, it was the same day, truly. I feel like people think that we're making that up, but it was the same day. It's insane.

[Allison]

We closed the. The role, like, immediately. It was amazing.

[Christine]

We signed up and we logged out. That's what happened.

[Allison]

That's awesome. And then Eva was there. If you're hiring, you want a candidate who's passionate about your role, but you can't get that insight from a resume unless you post your job on ZipRecruiter. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com Drink and ZipRecruiter has

[Christine]

a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first, so you meet the right people faster. Which means Eva would have been like, candidate one instead of like, four that day.

[Allison]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Christine]

You can find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. So we are a statistic. Christine, finally, in a good way.

[Allison]

Try it for [e-mail] Drink. That's ZipRecruiter.com Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Sometimes you just need a little gift to brighten up your week, to get out of that daily grind. The slog. It's Wednesday night and you're like, oh, gosh, I have to make dinner again. I just did that. Yesterday. But hellofresh is here to save the day. Yay.

[Christine]

It's. It's always been there for us, and it has, especially on days where I want to eat something yummy, but I. I just don't know what I want. I don't know how to make it. But that recipe one time looked really good. Now. Now it's at my door, and now it's in my fridge, and now it's on my counter, and now it's on my stove, and now it's on my plate, and now it's in my stomach.

[Allison]

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[Christine]

It's easy. It. I mean. Mean, I don't understand. Why. Why aren't you doing it? What's wrong with you?

[Allison]

What's wrong with you?

[Christine]

Go to hellofresh.com drink10fm now to get 10 free meals plus free NutriBullet Ultra plus 2 in one compact kitchen system, which is a 189.99 value on your third box.

[Allison]

Free meals applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. Disclaimer. Must order the third box by May 31, 2020, 26. All right, we're back. We discussed a lot of important topics, and now I have a beautiful part two to give you. This is part two of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold, which I very stupidly missed last time. And I remember now why it got cut short. It's because the episode was really long and, oh, yeah, I had a meeting I forgot about, like, in 20 minutes. Just fucking and bolted. So I apologize. Here we go. So I have a little recap for everybody, including, especially myself. Okay.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Here is the recap of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold. Part 1, 1910. Dorothy Arnold was New York royalty. She was born into massive wealth with a family tree tracing back to the Mayflower, lived in a literal mansion on the Upper east side. Her parents, Francis and Mary, expected her to follow, like, the Gilded Ape age path playbook at the time, which was just to, like, marry a wealthy guy and then be a socialite. But Dorothy had other plans. She went to Bryn Mawr. She really wanted to become a published author. She had submitted a few pieces to literary journals and received rejections. And instead of supporting her, comforting her, her entire family mocked her. And when she asked to get a studio space in Greenwich Village for some privacy to write, her dad said, said, anyone who can write can write anywhere. So figure it out. And also, you can't leave this house until you find a man that I approve of. Then they're doing this debutante ball for her sister. They're prepping for the Debbie Temple. It's a. It's all. All a frenzy. And Dorothy heads out for a shopping trip in Manhattan and seemingly was in high spirits. She rejected her mom's offer to join her on the trip and went solo. She midday bought a box of chocolates and a humor book called An Engaged Girl's Sketches at Brentano's bookstore. She's reported as being smiley, having high spirits. 2pm she runs into her friend Gladys King on Fifth Avenue.

[Christine]

I remember Gladys.

[Allison]

Remember, Gladys had a muff. Yes, furry muff.

[Christine]

Who could forget Gladys's muff? Not me.

[Allison]

Who could forget Gladys's timeless muff? And she pulls the RSVP out of the muff and is like, this is for your sister's party. And she's like, thanks, and, like, took it. And then Gladys says, okay, I'm off to meet my mom at the Waldorf story for lunch. And they wave goodbye. And Dorothy was never seen again. Now her family notices she's not there, and instead of reporting her missing, they wait six weeks to tell police that their daughter is missing. And that's where we left off. So when parents. When a parent. Sorry, go ahead.

[Christine]

Well done. Well, well done with the recap.

[Allison]

Oh, thank you. So when Dorothy failed to return for dinner, her parents were a little worried because she was usually very timely. But they decided not to call the police and instead began privately calling friends and initiating their own discreet searches. And as part of this, they hired their own lawyer to do a separate private investigation. Realizing the severity of the situation, the lawyer came straight away. He was a close family friend named John S. Keith, and he immediately searched Dorothy's bedroom. Almost everything was precisely where it belonged, indicating she hadn't packed a bag. She had left her passport and suitcases behind as well. However, Keith discovered that some papers had been recently burned in the fireplace. It was heavily speculated that these were the rejection letters from the publishing. From the. From the journals that she had submitted to that she was burning in the fireplace out of embarrassment. So Keith spent several days looking everywhere. He even went to, like, hospitals, morgues, sanatoriums, like to see if he could find her admitted somewhere, but had no success. So he realized he couldn't get much farther without hiring help. And that's when he convinced the Arnold parents to hire the Pinkerton National Detective Agency. I love that. No. And the Pinkertons, I feel like they're just always out and about in these stories, and they always feel like a fictional entity, but they're not.

[Christine]

I feel like it's. It's almost like a should have been Sherlock Holmes series because the Pinkertons just has the sound of, like, you want

[Allison]

to follow their escapades like a private eye. The Pinkerton detective Agency. I mean, it. Make it writes itself. I love that.

[Christine]

The original guy who was looking around and, like, looked through sanatoriums and stuff. It reminds me of, like, how men can't grocery store shop. But, like. Like, this man could go to sanatoriums and look up admissions and. And then asked for help when he couldn't get any further. And then he went, I need even more men on my side. And the Pinkerton said, I. I. Captain, I'm here.

[Allison]

You called the right guy. You called the right Pinkerton.

[Christine]

You know how many Pinkerton brothers are there?

[Allison]

Don't ask me that. I have no idea. For all I know, one. For all I know, six.

[Christine]

I was gonna say I. I feel it in my mind they're triplets.

[Allison]

I like to think they're triplets also.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Something which is very weird, but, like, in my mind, there's just three of them, and they're all the same age.

[Christine]

Yeah. They look identical for sure.

[Allison]

And they're all in a trench coat and they're walking through.

[Christine]

On each other's shoulders. Yeah.

[Allison]

Yeah, on each other's shoulders. Okay. So the Pinkertons pretty quickly stumble upon a big secret, and that is that Dorothy had a secret post office box.

[Christine]

Wow. They're good at their job. Immediately, they figure this out.

[Allison]

They're the Pinkertons.

[Christine]

Of course.

[Allison]

Of course. What were you thinking? Okay. Dorothea had a hidden post office box at the 34th street post office. She kept it totally under wraps from her family. They had no clue. And this was where she would send her submissions and stash away rejection letters because she was just taunted by her family. So she didn't want to be taunted anymore. So she had a private, Private post office box. The Arnold family's, like, honestly, at first they thought maybe she has, like, a lover that we wouldn't approve of, and that's why she has a secret mailbox. But it was, like, just to Write, which is like so sad, you know, I mean it's not like she was trying to have an affair or, you know, not that there's anything wrong with seeing someone at that age anyway, but like the fact that it was just to write and she felt so like mocked. I don't know, she was so, yeah,

[Christine]

so ashamed she had to hide away her only interest.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's like dark. So the Arnold family's reaction to Dorothy's disappearance, like the investigation, right. I mean they didn't tell police for six weeks. So like, yeah, they're gonna be behind. Back in 1910, the immediate thought was, oh, a young woman disappears without an escort. She must be running away, having a mental breakdown or like otherwise up to no good and smearing the family name,

[Christine]

you know, some sort of hardline harlot.

[Allison]

Some sort of harlot, like nothing good. And so her parents were like, well, we don't want that out there. So they did not tell anybody. But when the Pinkertons could not find her six weeks later, they finally convinced the parents to call the police. And Francis, the dad was documented as being profoundly unhappy to do so. Really, really upset about this. He was resistant to the publicity and he didn't want any part in it. But of course, the moment it got out, out, he had to hold a press conference and give the public the update of what was going on. So on January 25, 1911, reporters gathered at Francis Arnold's business office. Like how he's like, they can come to me, I'm not going to be meeting the press anywhere. They came to his office where he finally informed the public of his daughter's disappearance. And he also offered a $1,000 reward for information leading to his daughter's safe return. And the thousand dollar dollar reward in today's money is about $35,000.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Allison]

And that's just for information leading to her return. It's not like to bring her back. Yeah, yeah. So during the conference, reporters directly asked Francis if he thought his daughter had run away with a man knowing that he was strictly opposed to this storyline. Or like, of course they're like, that's, we're gonna go straight for the thing, you know, that that's gonna trigger him or piss him off. And, and here's what he said. I would have been glad to see her associate more with young men than she did, especially some young men of brains and position. One whose profession or business would keep him occupied. I don't approve of young men who have nothing to do.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Allison]

And everyone was like, what?

[Christine]

Yeah, that's how I felt just now.

[Allison]

Everyone was like, what is that supposed to mean? And of course, they read into it, and rightfully so show. Because it turns out she was indeed having an affair with somebody her dad didn't really like.

[Christine]

Love.

[Allison]

She was having an affair with a guy named George Griscom Jr. And when the press. The press didn't even know about this until her dad acted so weird when they asked, and they were like, ah, there's a story here.

[Christine]

So they assume the Pinkertons are. They're itching. They're like, wow, we really cracked this thing wide open.

[Allison]

Just they're like, now we're tmz. I think we're like, like, yeah, the secret affairs. So the affairs revealed, the press uncovers that Dorothy has been having this affair with this guy named George S. Griscom Jr. A man she had met while attending Bryn Mawr. And she had become deeply romantically involved with this guy. Now, as you'll recall, she is a pretty young woman at this point. Pretty young woman. But I meant she's a pretty young woman. Like, she's relatively young at this point point. She is 25, and her lover, the man that she was having an affair with, was in his early 40s. And so right off the bat, her dad was like, I don't think so.

[Christine]

This doesn't fly.

[Allison]

Yeah. And he did. He did come from, like, a profoundly wealthy Pennsylvania family. So it's not, like, really the money part, but it's the fact that he was, like, 40, 42, and he was unemployed, had no business, and was entirely dependent on his parents and still lived at a hotel that his parents paid for. And her dad was like, this guy's a loser.

[Christine]

And also, like, I mean, I know you just said it doesn't have anything to do with the money, but that's certainly a question in the air of, like, are you doing this? Like, why are you hanging out with a really rich girl and you happen to maybe be hurting for money? Like, it could be right? Am I crazy?

[Allison]

Well, he's. No, he's super rich.

[Christine]

Oh, what, the guy who's living in

[Allison]

a hotel and, yes, he's extremely wealthy.

[Christine]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Allison]

Sorry. He comes from a super wealthy family, and it's not like, the money. Like, it wasn't like, oh, he's too poor for our family. That her parents thought it was more like, well, he's 42 and he's living off his parents. Like, that's not cool just because he's rich. Like, he's he's a loser. He doesn't do anything. That was her dad's take.

[Christine]

Gotcha. I, I originally heard that as when he. It's not that he didn't have money. I thought you meant their family though.

[Allison]

Oh, oh, oh, no. So it was definitely like financially like a match, right? Like, sure, he was a wealthy dude, but he was also like an older dude who see his, her dad, her parents just thought of him as like this kind of loser.

[Christine]

No ambition.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah, no ambition. Exactly. So, so he Griscom. This guy was frequently referred to by his acquaintances as junior and his contemporaries described him as follows.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Allison]

A plumpy balding man with sideburns whose doting mother still buys all his shirts and ties for him.

[Christine]

Oh, that's not kind. No, that's not a kind thing to say.

[Allison]

No. And those are like his like whatever. So the age gap thing, first of all, it was like a toll. 15 to 17, 20 ish year age gap. Somewhere in that, in that range. And so of course this is starting to become salacious. She shouldn't be having an affair to begin with in the eyes of like her parents and the public. But it's even more scandalous now that this is like this older man and she's missing and her dad doesn't approve.

[Christine]

Yeah, it certainly doesn't look good. I, as some. If I were on the ground in this era, I would be eating this up. I'd be like, where the hell is she with her mysterious boyfriend?

[Allison]

None of us knew about her in this. Or are we like, girl, get away from the guy. Like what's the deal?

[Christine]

And also I'd be kind of worried. I agree with you 100%. I would also be worried because he has money. I'm like, what could he have paid.

[Allison]

Thank you.

[Christine]

To do to get her out of the picture or to take her away or he could afford a ship or a boat or a plane or whatever to get her out of here. Yep. And they could just be on a vacation, but then like they're never coming back, you know?

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so exactly. It became like this big sensation. And this is like one of the earliest like well known missing persons cases in New York City. So this is like a huge deal. So reporters dig into this, of course, and they discover that in September 1910, which was three months before she vanished. Vanished. Dorothy had explicitly lied to her parents telling them she was visiting a girlfriend in Cambridge, Massachusetts. But in reality she ran off to Boston to spend a week long rendezvous with her lover.

[Christine]

Griscom I mean, so there's a pattern here for sure.

[Allison]

Yes. So I think when her parents, like, didn't tell the police, they were like, we know what she's up to.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Unfortunately they didn't because she didn't come back. But at the time, they really thought, like, she's like, defied us again, you know? So Dorothy, apparently on this trip, she had actually financed this week long getaway by pawning 500 of her own jewelry, which is like tens of thousands of dollars. Like, it's a lot of money. Like 500 is, I think like 15.

[Christine]

15,000.

[Allison]

If a thousand dollars is right, right, exactly, exactly. And so she had pawned her jewelry to pay for this trip so her parents wouldn't find out. Now, the ultimatum that her parents gave her when they found out out was intense. They were not happy, okay? They strictly forbade her from continuing this relationship. They found him completely unsuitable as a match. And of course, in addition to using her secret mailbox for her rejection letters and sending out her art or her, her writing, her creative writing, she also started to use it for some communication with junior here, with this Griscom guy.

[Christine]

Still writing, still writing.

[Allison]

Exactly. So their final meeting, the two saw each other for a final confirmed time that we know about. In early November, shortly before Griscom left on an extended European vacation with his parents, Mommy dearest. In the weeks following Dorothy's disappearance, investigators were able to verify that Griscom was actively vacationing with his parents in Florence, Italy. To which I say, how convenient, but whatever. So on December 16, 1910, the Arnold family sent a telegram to Griscom in Florence, desperately asking for information about Dorothy's disappearance. Because of course, the first person they thought of was this guy, and they're like, he must know where she is. In a return telegram, Griscom explicitly denies any knowledge of her whereabouts and claims to know absolutely nothing regarding her disappearance, appearance, period. End of story.

[Christine]

Okay?

[Allison]

Unsatisfied with this, Dorothy's mother Mary and her older brother John took a ship to Italy in January. A ship to interrogate Griscom in person. I like, they literally got on a boat. We're like, we're gonna just harass him. But give us three weeks to get there first.

[Christine]

It feels like something that, like, everyone hopes for that later, like, group of girlfriends they'll like.

[Allison]

It's going to be like, ride or die.

[Christine]

Oh, he's cheating. Oh, well, let's get in the car right now. And we're all going to go like, knock on his door and call him out to.

[Allison]

Oh, we're going to cross the Atlantic Ocean real quick.

[Christine]

That's like, that's absolutely. And you know what? If you don't have friends like that, then you don't have friends, period.

[Allison]

But also they like bullied her for writing to. For wanting to write creative.

[Christine]

Right?

[Allison]

So I'm like, I think too little too late.

[Christine]

I think they smelled the drama and they were like, now I'm invested.

[Allison]

I guess. Her mom, honestly. Yeah.

[Christine]

It sounds like no one was being supportive and now all of a sudden they're gonna give a.

[Allison]

But now they're suddenly. Yeah, I know. So they go on a boat and imagine like, you have to keep up the momentum. You know when you're like pissed off and you're like, I'm gonna say something. And then like, you go to bed and you wake up and you're like, I'm not really that bothered anymore, but it's like, you've gotta walk in for

[Christine]

the length of the.

[Allison]

A ship ride through like seasickness. Oh my God.

[Christine]

I had. I was thinking like, how long. I wonder how many nautical miles that is? Like how many days? Cuz you would think by day nine they probably thought, I've sat on it long enough in this. Really, do we care that much? I overreacted. We should maybe we just go to

[Allison]

Italy, get some pasta, go home.

[Christine]

Let's just make a trip out of this. Like, it's okay, you know?

[Allison]

Yeah. You know, that's how I would have felt. But no, that's not exactly what happened. They show up, they're still. Still as motivated as ever to confront this guy.

[Christine]

Ride or die.

[Allison]

I mean, really, they're committed. So they go to the Anglo American Hotel where they know he's staying. They confront him in his room.

[Christine]

I'm sorry, I have to say, like, for. Across all timelines throughout history, it just sounds like women can get it done.

[Allison]

Like, they're like, pinkerton, step aside. I'm gonna get. Take a boat over to Italy real quick.

[Christine]

There was no Internet. Like, they. Yeah, all the way down to the location and. And room number. They got it handled.

[Allison]

And then they got in the room and confronted him. Hell yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's a product of the fact that it's 1910 and everyone's like, I guess you can walk in. Or if it's like, she's just like, get me over there. But either way, I love that the older brother was like, I'll come too, mom. She's like, whatever, you can come or Not. I'm going. You know when you're like in a video game and you're like, I just need a cheat code. And you're like, help. That's how I like to look at one of our newest sponsors, Batch. Batch is Wisconsin based hemp wellness brand founded by chemical engineers. Like, that's got to be a good sign. Some of my smarty pants friends are chemical engineers and I always look at them like, can you tell me what's going on in the world? So I guess, yeah, in my brain. So for a cheat code, like, it's nice to have people who actually know formulas and no science who created these awesome micro mints. They're these sublingual, so they go under your tongue. Cbd. CBG mints. Designed for daily calm and mood support. They're not like, meant to. To sedate you or anything or give you like a buzz. They're just meant to make you feel more like yourself.

[Christine]

Think of them as replacing the. The end of day glass of wine, Christine. Finally you can mix it up a little bit.

[Allison]

Phew.

[Christine]

Without the. The next morning fog of it all.

[Allison]

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[Christine]

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[Allison]

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[Christine]

Go to hellobatch.com and use code drink at checkout.

[Allison]

So they confront him. And during this confrontation, Mary and John demand that Griscom hand over all the letters that he has has that Dorothy has sent to him because they want to see what they say. They want to see if there's any clues where she is. He complies. And John later claimed to authorities that he and his mother read through the letters and they contained nothing of importance. And then the brother said, yeah, and then we destroyed them. We burned them all.

[Christine]

Okay, I feel like that's not what you should have done. I feel like that should have.

[Allison]

At least they didn't give them. The police just. They just burned them, which I bet you they were shameful. I bet you to them they were Shameful. Like, I bet you they thought, oh, my God, we can't have this leaked.

[Christine]

Yeah, we can't. We can't disgrace her. Her name or something. Sully.

[Allison]

Or our name.

[Christine]

Oh, God damn it. I was really rooting for these people for five minutes, and now I'm like, I don't.

[Allison]

It took six weeks for them to care enough to tell the police that their sister and daughter was missing.

[Christine]

Yeah. And part of me is like, maybe if I on, let's say not to. I'm not trying to bring back a joke after it's happened already, but this ship ride, if it were a day in. And like, you said, like, maybe they were still heated. I could see them burning it out of fury and not having thought it through. But, like, you've had enough time to concoct a plan that actually is logical, and the only logical one is bring evidence home. So people.

[Allison]

Exactly. It's like, okay, look at the evidence. Burn it. Don't let anyone else see it. And then when they ask their. Like, it was nothing important.

[Christine]

You're totally right that the only reason they would have done that at that point is if they read it. And it was salacious, as you said,

[Allison]

because, like, if it was not actually helping where she is, then they're like, well, this is useless. And also shameful. And also. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, that. That's my gut. But what the fuck do I know? But upon his. It gets really, really awkward and weird now again, because they burn all the letters, then. Then they get back to the United States. And then eventually, in February, Griscom gets back to the United States and he holds his own press conference. Okay.

[Christine]

And you know what? He probably can now that they burned all the evidence.

[Allison]

True. I mean, true. He stated that he fully intended to marry Dorothy once she was found. He got up on. On the big podium and said, I hereby declare, what if she is found, I will marry her on this very day. And then he said, says as long as her mother approves of our union. And his mother said, under no circumstances. Absolutely.

[Christine]

I never did and I never would.

[Allison]

Yeah, like, read the room, bud. So she literally, even a little all the way to.

[Christine]

You burned everything that you have left of her. Yes, if we approve.

[Allison]

Yeah, if we approve. We literally burned your missives to each other because we could care less that we could not care any less than we do.

[Christine]

What a weird thing to do. Okay.

[Allison]

And she's like, he goes, as long as her parents approve. And they were like, literally, go yourself. No and so that was awkward. Then we go to this report. Okay, this is the San Francisco Chronicle. And, you know, this is obviously becoming national news. The San Francisco Chronicle, the same month that this kind of, like, Griscom press conference thing happened. They report February 1911, they report they published a sensational report stating that clerks at the Anglo American Hotel in Florence, where he'd been staying, had seen a mysterious veiled woman during the time that Griscom was staying there that they believed to be Dorothy Arnold. So according to hotel staff, Griscom and the veiled woman engaged in an earnest talk that the clerks could not overhear. But they noted that the woman appeared greatly agitated. Dated. Oh, so that's like the next kind of clue, but it doesn't really go anywhere.

[Christine]

So. Okay. Just from hearing that as, like a. As new ears with no understanding of what happens next. So they're confirming that she was there and that she looked mad and now she's missing. That's not helpful to him.

[Allison]

No, it's not good. But they're also saying they think that the staff saw her. They saw a woman that could have been her. So it's not even like, oh, they recognized her. It's sort of like they saw a mysterious veiled woman.

[Christine]

Could have been.

[Allison]

And they're like, could it be. You know, so it very well could be not her.

[Christine]

But if. And if what he's saying. I don't know if it's under oath. Well, no, it's just a press conference. If he's saying, like, oh, she was the love of my life and I was going to marry her, he would then have to admit that it is. That it is her. Right. But like, I mean, just by that logic.

[Allison]

Okay, well, they weren't doing anything romantic. It was like they were just having like a hushed conversation. Station.

[Christine]

Oh, right. So it could have been like a business person.

[Allison]

It literally could have been like a sister, a business partner. Right, exactly. Some random lady. Like, it sort of feels like a dead end, even though it's like, ah, but, I mean, maybe it is, but also like, very well could be some other random lady with a headscarf on that you can't see, you know, so. So I, I though I'm kind of with you in that, like, I feel that he's. Something's just rubbing me a little wrong. And I'll. I'll add to. To it with this. Griscom had this sort of, like, advertising campaign. He went on after this where he. In the months following this public announcement, he spent thousands of Dollars purchasing advertisements in major newspapers across the country begging Dorothy to come home.

[Christine]

He killed her.

[Allison]

I know. I was like, this is nuts. Who does? Like, what a weirdo. He's being so weird.

[Christine]

I feel like he would only do that if he knew. Knew that she wouldn't see it. And then so, like, I feel like he put it out there knowing that he could get away with that, because if she saw that and the person that she's secretly in love with and her family and everyone's looking for her, she would have. Someone would have. I don't know.

[Allison]

I find it so weird. I'm like, I don't know. He's just being weird as. So I have some, like, context here and a little bit of, like, potential theories. By the end of January of 1911, she'd been missing, like, a month or two. The NYPD publicly stated they still believe Dorothy was alive and would eventually return. But a lot of times that's said, right? Like, they just ran away. They're just being young and stupid, and they'll come home. Spoiler alert, she did not come home. So I don't necessarily think that's true. Conversely, the Arnold family actually said publicly they believed she was dead, that their daughter was dead, Which I was like, whoa, okay. All right. I guess. I guess you. I guess you'd know better than anyone. But Francis Arnold, the dad, he had a theory. He held another press conference where he stated he believed from the very start that his daughter had been attacked, robbed, and killed while walking home through Central Park.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Allison]

He theorized that her attacker had thrown her body into the Central park reservoir to hide the crime time. But the temperature in New York had dropped to 21 degrees and the reservoir had frozen. But then they searched the entire Central park, but they also searched the entire reservoir, and when it thawed, and there was not a trace of her or anyone. So it's just weird. Like, you clearly just invented that to be like, oh, she died so tragically getting thrown into a frozen lake. Too bad. Like, to make your family less ashamed. I don't know. It just feels really weird to me.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Here are the kind of rumors and theories that have circulated ever since. Amnesia. This is what her mother believed. That Dorothy slipped on the ice, struck her head, and was wandering around the country with no memory of her identity. There were a lot of false sightings all the way from California to New England. So she kind of held on to that hope. Like, maybe she's out there and just doesn't remember.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And it. It does happen. I mean, it's very rare, but it does happen. Happen. A secret elopement that she, you know, utilized. Like a fake passport maybe, or an assumed name to travel to Europe and meet someone else, like some other unknown lover that we don't know about. It feels like a little weird because she'd had such an ongoing affair with this other guy. Yeah, but whatever. Suicide is one of the theories that she took her own life because of the rejection and the toxic home environment. But then on the other hand, you think like she went out, bought chocolates, bought a book, was like in good spirits, planning for her sisters. I mean, again, and I, like, it's so hard because you say suicide and you don't want to be like, this is not how someone would act. Right. Like, sure, I can't make that claim.

[Christine]

And also there's the, the I don't know what the right phrasing of it is, but a lot of people, the week leading up to it, if they've already planned something, they usually are shockingly

[Allison]

in good, higher spirits. Yeah, that's true.

[Christine]

I have heard of they've made a plan. Plan.

[Allison]

You know, that's true. I have heard that there's another theory called the botched abortion theory.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Allison]

Which is the most persistent theory and most complex and like most salacious. I would say Dr. C.C. meredith is the guy's name. In April 1914, police in a Pittsburgh suburb raided a clandestine maternity clinic operated by Dr. C.C. meredith, an establishment notorious among locals as, as the House of Mystery due to women occasionally vanishing after seeking services there.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, and she was a powerful or important figure in town.

[Allison]

So maybe like, if, if something had

[Christine]

happened in my mind, if someone is in there making women vanish, why not? I, I could see someone thinking, oh, if it's for like trafficking, like, oh, she's a significant person or she's.

[Allison]

Well, I think it's more that it's an abortion clinic. And so if something goes wrong, that they just kind of dispose of the body.

[Christine]

Yeah, I see. I, I turned it into trafficking.

[Allison]

I mean, that could have been a part of it, but I think it was more that he did. Like it was called a clandestine maternity clinic. So I think he was performing abortions. And you're right, the reason this is even brought up is that during the investigation, an associate named Dr. He Lutz testified that Dr. Meredith had claimed a young, well known woman from New York had died in his clinic during an abortion and her body was subsequently burned in the basement furnace. And l believed that his coworker, his Associate believed that it was Dorothy Arnold.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. That's a pretty.

[Allison]

I think that's a very solid lead. I mean if she's having an affair, she's like trapped in this corner type thing, you know, I mean it's just tale as old as time, unfortunately. And now here's another one. The Edward, Edward Glenoris confession. In April 1916, a convicted felon named Edward Glenoris, who was imprisoned in Rhode island for extortion, confessed to one of the wardens that he had been paid to bury her body in 1910, like after the abortion. So there are multiple people now saying that this has happened?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Glenn Norris claimed that an acquaintance named Little Louis hired him. They drove to a house in New Rochelle, New York where they met two men. A physician referred to only as Dog Hawk and a wealthy, well dressed man matching the physical description of George Griscom Jr. Get out.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Allison]

I know, I know. Okay, so maybe he knows a thing or two about what happened.

[Christine]

I bet he does.

[Allison]

The transport to Weehawken. Then Glenn Norris claimed that he and Little Louie were instructed to load an unconscious woman into a car and drive her to a specific house in Weehawken, New Jersey. And during the drive, he says that Glenora says that Little Louie explained that the woman was named Dorothy Arnold. Shut up. Yeah, that Glenoris claimed he recognized her face, confirmed her identity by the signet ring on her index finger. And the next day Little Louie contacted him to finish the job. And returning to the Weehawken home, Doc told them she had died during an operation. And Glen Norris said he was paid $250 to wrap her body in a sheet and bury her deep in the cellar of the home.

[Christine]

Holy.

[Allison]

But when formally questioned by authorities, suddenly Glenn Norris feigned total confusion, recanted his entire testimony and claimed he knew nothing about her disappearance. Police did excavate several sellers in Weehawken, but they didn't find anything. Okay, and so the abortion theory does, does represent like a logical contiguous timeline. Yeah, if we're talking like, so the Comstock Laws had been enacted. They restricted access to contraception, abortion. It was also seen as like obscene and immoral and every word in the book. Right. And especially for parents like she had by early December. So she had spent that secret week with him, remember in Boston in September. So by December she would have been like two and a half months pregnant. Which would be like the turning point of like not being able to hide this any longer or facing like, oh, these symptoms are going to be more obvious. Also this details from this Glenoris guy are so fucking specific. Like the ring. He recognized a signet ring that like, she actually owned. And he mentioned it in the testimony and then later recanted. But like, said he, he saw this ring on her finger and she, she did have that same with the doc characteristics that he described. Like, all match up to the. The doctor who did the secret abortions. And it's just really a little bit too. I don't know, it feels like it rings a little too possible to me to discount.

[Christine]

I agree with you. I think at this point it's. It's either that guy's story or just general botched abortion.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, unfortunately. Which is just tragic. So this is the last thing I'm going to say here. The last letter she ever wrote I'm going to mention because it does give kind of an eerie little kind of aside to all this. In one of the few pieces of correspondence that did survive the sort of fiery purge that they put all her other letters through, Dorothy wrote a letter to George Griscom Jr detailing the rejection of her, her creative writing. She explicitly stated, quote, failure stares me in the face. All I see ahead is a long road with no turning. Mother will always think an accident has happened. And that feels like intent, more intentional or more.

[Christine]

That certainly feels sinister.

[Allison]

Mother will think an accident has happened. I mean, that's. And it's like we don't know the whole letter context, so maybe it's just

[Christine]

pulled out of a misquoted or.

[Allison]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just really weird. Junior and his plump balding guy who lives with his parents and then went on this like, weird, romantic, like, quest to get her back. And I'm convinced he knew she wasn't coming back. I agree with you that he was just trying to get his name out as like a good guy, you know, he, he.

[Christine]

I feel like he really knew that she wasn't coming back, which means he knew something. Something. Maybe not that he did anything.

[Allison]

Right.

[Christine]

But maybe he knew something and knew that he couldn't tell anyone or else he's now held accountable in some way.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah. I do wonder if. And also like, if he gave the letters over to the family, you can only imagine he would have already sorted through the ones that were like, sure, not, not really safe for work or like, not if they had written about the abortion, I don't think he would have like, handed it over the pregnancy. I don't think he would have like, handed the letters over, you know?

[Christine]

Right.

[Allison]

So, yeah, I mean, we don't know, it's just crazy. Like, we don't know if she died during a medical operation tragically. We don't know if she just, like, got on a train and started a new life and changed her name and just was never heard again. Heard from again. But either way, she pulled off one of the most complete disappearances in American history. There's just like no trace. Like she just vanished. By the way, I know I've said it a bunch, but broad daylight in the middle of Manhattan.

[Christine]

Manhattan crazy.

[Allison]

Ran into a friend and then poof. So not even the wealth of Francis, Francis Arnold. Not even the Pinkertons themselves.

[Christine]

Insane. Because I had so much faith in them.

[Allison]

I know, of all people, I was

[Christine]

really rooting for them.

[Allison]

Yeah. So that is the story. I mean, she's sometimes called the girl who never came Back. Or like, it's just really. It's just sad. It's just sad and, like, kind of creepy that you could just.

[Christine]

It's a nice reminder of like, how far in. You know, in a good way only. It's also in a scary way. But how far we've come, technology wise, we're like, if she just had a phone on her, you know, like just an airtight.

[Allison]

I know.

[Christine]

Or something like it. It's crazy that we would at least have a little more information.

[Allison]

I know. It's always like that with these cases where it's like just one thing would have really, really would push the needle in a certain direction. But like.

[Christine]

Like in Manhattan, like, I can't imagine a world where you live in Manhattan and there's not security cameras everywhere, you know?

[Allison]

Yeah. Except in 1910.

[Christine]

Except in 1910. I. I wonder if in the letters that he handed over, it did say that she got an abortion and that's why they burnt it, because that was the salacious activity.

[Allison]

Maybe they did know that's where she went and everyone covered it up. Oh, my God. It's like. Like Pearl all over again.

[Christine]

I feel like the family could have been like, oh, well, nobody can know that they were sleeping together. And then that's why they left him alone because they were like, we don't. We don't want anybody to know.

[Allison]

It's very possible. I think it's. It's plausible anyway.

[Christine]

I don't know there. I don't like how many options there are that I agree with. I really thought this was a. I don't know. You know, me always thinking I'm going to solve it. Who am I, the Pinkertons?

[Allison]

No, listen, maybe.

[Christine]

Well. Well, good storytelling. I can see why you needed to break that up. If you were on your way to a meeting and you needed to, that was good. You weren't gonna be able to do that quickly.

[Allison]

I literally had like 4, 5, 6 pages left when I ended the last set of notes. So, yeah, it was necessary. But I do apologize it took so long.

[Christine]

You just set up the scene last time.

[Allison]

I did. And then I said, oops, gotta go, and then forgot. Got.

[Christine]

No, it was very well done. I'm glad we the, the. The suspense of others, I'm assuming was it was worth it. So.

[Allison]

Yeah, my friend Julia was like, am I crazy or did I? And I was like, don't even start with me, because he's the one who suggested this topic. So he's like, I went and listened and then I forgot part two. Sorry, Julia.

[Christine]

Whoopsies. Well, next week, I don't know what I'm going to cover yet, but it's is not going to be about Zach Bacons, I promise.

[Allison]

So Allegedly will see.

[Christine]

Allegedly. All right, we'll see you guys next week. And that's why we drink.

[Allison]

Your next chapter in healthcare starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our campus, see live demos, meet instructors, and learn about our associate degree in nursing program that prepares you

[Christine]

to become a a registered nurse.

[Allison]

Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now at Carrington. Edu Events. For information on program outcomes, visit carrington.

[Christine]

Edu Sci.