E481 Pizza Payments and Original Coffee Thoughts

Summary

And That's Why We Drink – Episode 481: Pizza Payments and Original Coffee Thoughts

Date: May 3, 2026
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Episode Overview

This episode of "And That's Why We Drink" finds Christine and Em in classic form, delivering a blend of hilarity, heartfelt personal stories, and chilling true crime and paranormal tales. The main stories include Em’s deep dive into the haunted Tranquille Sanatorium in Canada, complete with small-town lore and MTV ghost-hunting shenanigans, and Christine’s true crime tale of Virginia Russell, which unexpectedly connects to a listener and reminds us of the personal side of true crime. Throughout, the hosts balance levity and empathy, sprinkling in memorable banter about family, pets, rain, and the pressing need for a Control+Z function in real life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Casual Banter, Rainy Nostalgia, and Why They Drink (00:00–25:21)

• Sibling Names and Identity: Christine and Em riff on the quirks of their names and the existence of "the M" and "X Teen" riffs, including a sidebar about making questionable internet usernames (03:03).
• Why Each Host Drinks This Week:
  • Christine shares her "new tradition" of saving McDonald's iced coffee overnight—an experiment that resulted in insomnia and a touching moment of self-awareness.

    “I was up till like 2:33 in the morning, and it’s sort of now kind of all screeching to a big train crash in my head of, hey, maybe don't...” (04:30)

  • Em shares the anniversary of Hanky's "Gotcha Day," reflecting on the journey from chaos to connection as a pet parent (14:06).
  • The joys and sensory pleasures of rain, including discussions of "petrichor," curated rain sound playlists, and why LA residents are so nostalgic for weather (07:01–09:02).
  • Thoughtful discussion on jealousy, compersion, and the lack of an English word for happy-jealousy and their German word hunt (10:56–11:50).

2. Pet Talk & Personal Growth (15:00–25:00)

• Hanky's Gotcha Day - Em’s recap of Hank, the transformation from “enemies to lovers,” and the honest struggles and ultimate joy of pet adoption.
• Christine’s dog Geo and the “unhinged emotional response” - candid look at how their approach to pet adoption differed, and the psychological insights that came with it (19:21).

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3. Main Story #1: Haunted History – The Tranquille Sanatorium (29:18–61:41)

Storyteller: Em
Timestamps for Notable Segments:

• Building and Expansion of the Sanatorium: 29:25–34:49
• Daily Life, Community, and Tunnels: 33:51–36:21
• Transition to Mental Hospital & Population Overlap: 40:28–44:48
• Attempts at Resort Conversion and Current Use: 44:55–47:13
• Haunting Lore and MTV’s 'Fear': 49:11–57:59

Highlights:

• Sanatorium’s Origins: Founded in 1907 for TB patients, built outside Kamloops, B.C. Far from the main town due to locals’ TB fears. Small community blossomed around it for quarantined staff.
• Self-Sustaining Community: At its height, over 40 buildings; had everything from barns to schools. The classic “utopia out of necessity."
• Tunnels: Used for patient/staff movement, goods transfer, and especially for discreetly moving bodies—giving rise to ghost lore.

  “And the classic sanatorium thing... has tunnels underground to move bodies around.” (36:21)

• Evolution: After TB cures, became a mental hospital under progressive (yet problematic) Kirkbride reforms; later operated as an orphanage, then briefly as a youth detention center.
• Attempts to Flip for Profit: At one point, an entrepreneur tried to convert the site into a luxury eco-resort. Local opposition remains strong; for now, it’s a working farm (Tranquille Farm Fresh) that also serves as a backdrop for tours and horror events.
• Ghost Stories:
  • Apparitions in old cemeteries and tunnels—moans, voices, crying, a mourning woman, and children’s giggles fill the lore.
  • Stories include a nurse who died of TB after falling in love with a patient, and a string of supposed murders and heartbreak.
  • Local teens and MTV’s Fear inflated the reputation, with MTV even hiring kids to make noise for effect:

    “...it’s been breaking heavily confirmed that a lot of literal local teenagers were paid in pizza to go make noise upstairs during this filming.” (56:13, Em)

  • Em speculates much of its haunted reputation is urban legend exploited for tourism—not denying the site’s tragic real history.

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4. Main Story #2: True Crime – The Murder of Virginia Russell (64:55–91:49)

Storyteller: Christine
Timestamps for Notable Segments:

• Introduction: 64:55–66:45
• The Crime and Investigation: 66:45–82:05
• Forensics, Evidence, and Red Herrings: 82:05–90:18
• Justice and Reflection: 90:18–91:49

Highlights:

• Personal Connection: The victim, Virginia Russell, is the aunt of a friend (listener Charlie), underscoring the real-world impact behind “true crime” and the way victims are sometimes reduced to stories.
• The Case: After serving a sentence for a DUI-related crash that killed her partner, Virginia is murdered execution-style only months after release. The investigation finds her working as a call girl and takes a labyrinthine turn.
• Red Herrings:
  • Initial suspicion falls on Justin Bullard, who had paged her—his boots had her blood, his gun matches the evidence—but he claims innocence.
  • The real break: Bullard’s roommate, Roy Beck, becomes the likely suspect after a previous similar crime surfaces and forensic evidence ties him to the scene (beer bottles from the same six-pack, unique fingerprint analysis involving "superglue fuming,” etc).
  • The twist: Beck used Bullard’s belongings to stage the crime, nearly implicating his friend, which prompts a discussion on the terror of being falsely accused.
  • Notable insight:

    “It’s kind of scary how they could have gotten the wrong guy, because it was—I mean, you see blood on a guy’s boots in his closet. It’s like, hello.” (90:18, Christine)

• Reflection: Christine notes the importance of remembering the humanity of crime victims, especially those marginalized by society.

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On McDonald’s Coffee:

“It’s the second. Two times does a pattern make. Perhaps.” – Christine (03:54)

On Rain and Nostalgia:

“As someone who lives in LA and it never rains, it really is the only way I get my brain experience. I get it. I really. I am. I hold them, like, near and dear.” – Em (08:40)

Defining Compersion:

“Apparently it’s the opposite of jealousy, where it’s no jealousy, only pure happiness for you. So I don’t actually feel that for you...” – Em (10:26)
“There must be a German word, because, you know, they have schadenfreude and all that.” – Christine (11:29)

On Haunted Locales and Manufactured Lore:

“People knew someone or had a sibling where they all remember them going to this building overnight.” – Em (57:12, about local teens paid to prank MTV’s Fear)

On True Crime’s Human Impact:

“The victim, Virginia Russell, is the aunt of a friend (listener Charlie), underscoring the real-world impact behind ‘true crime’ and the way victims are sometimes reduced to stories.” – Christine (paraphrased, 64:55–66:45)

6. Listener and Host Reflections

• Christine’s Caution: On false accusations, she highlights the existential dread of being blamed for a crime you didn’t commit, especially thanks to shoddy evidence.
• Empathy for Victims: Both hosts reinforce the importance of remembering victims’ humanity and the ripple effects on surviving friends and family, especially with stigmatized groups.

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Memorable Lighter Moments

• The existential quest for a real-life "Control+Z" or “Rosebud” cheat code. (05:25)
• Christine’s crop top murder-of-crows shirt story, straight from TikTok shop misadventures (12:21).
• Ongoing sponsor ad banter, including creative asides about wireless plans and hard cider (ads skipped in summary).
• The Law & Order SVU rabbit hole over Patrick Stump’s cameo and awkward band quotes (94:31–97:10).

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Episode Structure & Flow

• Opening Banter: 00:00–29:17
• Haunted History (Em): 29:18–61:41
• Sponsor Interlude: (ads omitted)
• True Crime (Christine): 64:55–91:49
• Wrap-Up, Pop Culture Tangents, Listener Brags: 91:49–97:10

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• This episode is an excellent blend of trademark "And That’s Why We Drink" comfort food: witty, warm personal stories, gentle reminders about self-care (take your meds! bring your own rain sounds!), honest discussions about mental health, and nuanced takes on history and true crime.
• The haunted sanatorium segment is genuinely spooky but critically aware, while the true crime story delivers as both a puzzle and a personal reckoning.
• Both segments underscore recurring podcast themes: the messiness of memory, the real faces behind ghost stories and headlines, and the quirks and comforts of everyday life.

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Because sometimes you just need McDonald’s coffee, rain on your window, and the ability to Control+Z. And that’s why we drink.

Transcript

[A]

Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the love hypothesis, Sterling point and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime Foreign. Hello, everyone. Welcome to and that's why we drink. We are here today to cover some spooky tales and I can't wait to do it. My name is Christine and I'm here with my co host, the M. Schultz.

[B]

Oh my, how you could not get a the in front of your name, the X Teen.

[A]

Because, you know, there's. I don't know, I'm just. It feels a little bit like, presumptuous.

[B]

You gotta own it though. You gotta be like, it's me, the X Teen.

[A]

That sound, even when you said it, it didn't sound very, like, confident, you know, it just maybe doesn't roll the same way the M does, you know?

[B]

But every time someone sees the M written out, it looks like theme and it looks.

[A]

I do think. I do think that. But your pronouns are they, them. So it does kind of work.

[B]

It is kind of a hack.

[A]

Like, it sort of feels like you're doing the thing where you put like extra letters at the end because someone else took.

[B]

Oh, I love that. No, unfortunately I'm just. It just looks poorly spelled. But.

[A]

Well, try being. One time I tried to make. Oh, my God. What was it? It was something very embarrassing. I. It was back in the day, I think I made Gio's account and it said something like geo. It was like, geo loves socks. They just. Something about it ended up looking like not so.

[B]

It looked a little iffy.

[A]

It looked a little iffy. And I just remember everyone going, christine with love. Like, what is this?

[B]

Oh, really? I don't remember that.

[A]

Well, I think it was literally before I even knew you. Like, that's how quickly it came and went. But I will live with that shame for the rest of my life of going, okay, I gotta look at every username I make from the eyes of someone who's never read it before, because it really, like that can throw you off big time.

[B]

I thank you for telling me now. Maybe I should change the EM Schultz after all this time.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. Yours doesn't look bad. That's why I'm just saying, like, I'm gonna stick with whatever the hell I've got going because I'm afraid to even venture too far.

[B]

You're very lucky to have an ex, though, because that really makes it visually, aesthetically fun no matter what is. What else is going on.

[A]

You know, it's funny because then my brother became Zandy, and it was like, oh, weird. Like, our parents, like, we just kind of both came up with, we suddenly have Z name.

[B]

You both seem to be so bad.

[A]

Oh, X's. But then my sister's name is Ziska, so she is the Z. And it's like, what's happening with our family?

[B]

You guys really rocked it with the xx.

[A]

Thanks so much.

[B]

Yeah, I. Why do you drink this week?

[A]

Well, first of all, I have this new tradition where it's my McDonald's coffee. And what I do is that on certain, like, once a month, Leona gets her Happy Meal. And I'm usually like, sometimes I'll get a snack wrap situation or something. But my new. My new tradition, this is my new habit. And it's more of a bad habit than a.

[B]

Than an actual tradition. Is today the first of this tradition?

[A]

It's the first. It's the fir. It's the second. It's the second.

[B]

Okay, got it.

[A]

Two times. Does a pattern make. Perhaps I buy it the night before with like, li. Very little ice, take a few sippies, put it in the fridge. Next morning, got a nice big vanilla ice latte, add some ice, you got.

[B]

You got a sweet treat from past you.

[A]

I'm loving it. And also I did. That's right. And also.

[B]

Yeah, I just realized that you said, I'm loving it. And did you mean it for McDonald's?

[A]

I did. I did. That part was intentional. I know it didn't seem it, but actually, I just realized last night and last Monday night, I could not sleep. I was up till like 2:33 in the morning, and it's sort of now kind of all screeching to a big train crash in my head of, hey, maybe don't, like, maybe this shouldn't be a Tradition. Third of that thing before bed, pretending like you bought it for tomorrow, but it's nine o' clock at night.

[B]

Interesting. I did. We did watch in real time. You have an original thought, like you

[A]

were speaking to me and I was like, I'm actually not present. Hold on, everyone. She's not here.

[B]

Everyone goes, watch that if you can, if you have YouTube accessible. Because it was.

[A]

I was just like, no, you, Meg, is going to make the one where it's like the spinny wheel over my head where my. It's like, oh, she froze. Oops.

[B]

I really control. I was like, are you okay?

[A]

Delete. Control. I'll delete sometimes. Do you ever do that? Sometimes I do Control Z. And then I'm like, wait, I'm in life.

[B]

Oh, yeah, like, like I like type it. No, I thought you were agreeing with

[A]

me, so I kept going.

[B]

I think more like I said, sit here and think. I wish I could take that back. And then that's kind of just as far as I go in real time.

[A]

It always hits me too late that, that I'm not on a computer. I mean, I'm sort of on a computer. But Control Z, I haven't found like the Motherlode cheat code, the Rosebud cheat code, the Control Z, none of it works in real life.

[B]

I'm waiting for the Rosebud cheat code. That's a please. She got me far in life, in. In fake life. So I'm really shooting for real life now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I'm glad you have a tradition that will be dying today, I guess.

[A]

Yeah, that was a really long standing and fun tradition that happened twice and I am better for it, I think. Thank you so much for watching that kind of happen in real time.

[B]

Do you have a reason why you drink?

[A]

I guess that might be it, huh?

[B]

Oh, sure. Yeah. Maybe you already answered that. And I know stick. I don't know.

[A]

I was extremely excited about my new pattern. Now I'm extremely unexcited about my new tradition, so that's that. I don't really have any other reasons. I mean, I've got. Got the window open. It's like a beautiful breezy day. Last night it rained and I had the windows, the screen open and I did that thing where I pretended like I was in a safe place with my blankie. I mean, I was in a safe place, to be clear, but I.

[B]

That I can relate to, you know,

[A]

the mental place where you're like, oh, I go back to like a place that feels cozy in my mind and then Absolutely.

[B]

I go there every five minutes.

[A]

And then I heard the sound and I went, what could that be? And I thought, surely it's not my problem. And then I heard the sound again. And you'll recall I had had a third of my McDonald's Vanill Iced Coffee about two hours. Nope. Five hours earlier.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

At this point. And I heard this commotion, and it was only about 5ft from my bed, so I really just had to turn on my flashlight and look. And wouldn't you know it, there was a thunderstorm coming in the window, and there was just. Just. Just water everywhere and just two angry cats.

[B]

I am sorry. I also. I have to tell you, though, part of me is like, God, I really wish I could have that experience.

[A]

I gotta say, it was an extremely wonderful experience. And I got a giant towel, beach towel. Like, put it on the ground. Made sure the dog bed they were all sleeping in was dry. You know, like, this gust of wind came in sideways is what had happened. Yeah. And the couch startled, and everybody just went crazy. And then I just threw a giant towel down and said, that's enough for everyone. Good night. And then Blaze said, what happened? I said, nothing. There's, like.

[B]

There's those YouTube videos, like, you can watch and, like, listen to rain in a certain environment. And on a train. On a train. Last night, I was listening in an rv. Like, I was out in the woods by myself.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And other times I'm on a boat and it's raining. Other times I'm in a forest. You know, I mean, it's. I always pick a new thing. Sometimes I'm in space and it's raining, and then that really makes no sense, but I don't question it. Oh. And I feel like a lot of people do that just for the vibes, momentarily. But as someone who lives in LA and it never rains, it really is the only way I get my brain experience.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

I really. I am. I hold them, like, near and dear. And I've got a very curated playlist. And I'm so jealous and happy for you at the same time. What's the happy? Jealousy compersion. I feel compersion free.

[A]

That's my word. I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

It has been explained to me that way where it's like, oh, you're jealous in a happy way and you don't want to take. But it's. But you are still a little.

[A]

You're not necessarily, like, coveting it. Like, you want to take it away

[B]

from Me, like, no hard feelings, but I do envy that.

[A]

And I get it because it really is a special thing. And having lived in la, I know how it's like, bizarre when you're like, deprived of weather for a while and then all of a sudden things are green and like wet and you're like, what's happening? And I will say too, like, I've learned about myself sensory wise, that I'm very, very sensitive to smell. And, like, smell is one of those things that like, really helps me ground and calm and whatever. And growing up, I was never allowed to have anything like scented in the house because of reasons it changed every year. Migraines, chemicals, fires. I don't know, there was always a reason I wasn't allowed to have anything like, scented. And so now I'm like, finally diving into that, like, tiptoeing. And I realized, like, with the rain, I love to have it open because you can smell the rain. And I'm like, oh, my God. It's a sensory experience, like on every level. It's really soothing. And I've started just like taking advantage of that. Open the windows, you know, just enjoy it.

[B]

The. Another fancy word, petrichor.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

The smell of rain. Although let me backtrack real quick, I think, because I just, I looked it up because I was like, it's the

[A]

smell of rain on concrete, isn't it? Or no.

[B]

Oh, I think petrichor is just the. I thought it was the smell of oncoming rain made them just bad words. I don't know.

[A]

Oh. Oh, yeah. It's like the ozone. Wait, no, that's like the ozone.

[B]

That's what I thought. Also, I just looked up the word compersion and apparently it's the opposite of jealousy, where it's no jealousy, only pure happiness for you. So I don't actually feel that for you when I tell you.

[A]

Okay. Oh, you know, just.

[B]

There's definitely jealousy there.

[A]

Petrichor is the earthy, sweet set. Oh, yeah. So when rain hits soil is what it is. Sorry. So it's like when it like kind of hits. Oh. And it comes from the word stone. That's why I thought that because petrichor like Petra like stone. So it sort of like makes the smell in the air. Oh, it's so nice. Anyway, here.

[B]

I like about myself is that I do know that there are words out there that exist, but I just don't always know what they mean. That was two in a row.

[A]

I kind of half knew which ones new. You knew what? That one you brought it up. You brought both up.

[B]

Yeah, but I know conversion exists. And then I, well, what's. So what is.

[A]

I don't understand. What does it mean? It's like, teach me.

[B]

It's just like, oh, like, so happy and overjoyed for somebody without any jealousy.

[A]

So it's not okay. Oh, okay. So as probably not. So there's not a nice word, maybe, for what you're saying.

[B]

Maybe. Yeah. I'm in the middle. I, I.

[A]

There must be a German word because, you know, they have schadenfreude and all that. Like, there must be one.

[B]

I I if there is a word for the. For compersion and jealousy mixed together, where I am so happy for you and don't want to take from you. However, I wish it was my experience. That's how I feel.

[A]

I think that's kind of what jealousy is, though.

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

But I feel not necessarily happy for the other person.

[B]

That's what it's what jealousy should look like.

[A]

Agreed. Maybe because jealousy is a sign that, that there's something that you feel like you're not fulfilling in yourself. Right. So it's like, I mean, not with rain. Right. Okay, maybe. But like, you know, if you're, like, jealous of somebody's success, you're like, oh, that's something in me. I, I feel like I want to be able to express. Yeah. Or you feel like you can do that, but you're not doing, you know, something like that. So I feel like that does sort of fit. But you've got your rain sounds, and I think that's a very.

[B]

It's enough for now.

[A]

Nice approach to it. Oh, yeah. Do you like my shirt?

[B]

What's it say? Murder. Oh, that's fun.

[A]

It says murder. It has three crows on top. And then it's. Presumably, I think, I like to think he's playing dead, because that feels like something a crow would do.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

This is murder.

[B]

I have, I was gonna say, I think I have a very similar shirt.

[A]

And my. My mother got this off, I think, the Tik Tok shop. So if that's where you encountered it, I got it for Christmas. And she said, why is it so short? It's for babies. And I said, it's a crop top. And she said, well, I didn't know that when I bought it, and now it's going to show your belly. And I said, okay, we gotta have this con. So anyway, where did you find it? Or where did you get it?

[B]

I don't know. That's why I paused I was like, I think I know that. I couldn't tell you where I got it from.

[A]

I bet you it's on Tick Tock Shop making the rounds.

[B]

I betcha she's a. She's a thirsty little hoe, that Tick Tock Shop. And she gets me every time, likes

[A]

to lure me in. And I said, no, no, no.

[B]

Not here, not today.

[A]

Don't do this, right? Not like this. Not about my boobs. Leave my boobs out of this. Once I start looking for a bra, it's like, game over. Every three swipes at somebody's boobs in my face, and I'm like, okay. Like, I get it, but it's not in the same sort of, like, fun way. It's more like, look at these and buy some wire.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Buy something. Yeah. Oh, startling. Okay, sorry. Why do you drink?

[B]

I. I drink because.

[A]

Because it's not raining.

[B]

It's not raining. I'm always drinking for that. The day it does rain, I'll be drinking for that. Two days from now is Hanky's Gotcha Day.

[A]

Are you serious? A year? That can't be right.

[B]

It's the truth. Hankies. You wanna come here? Come here.

[A]

Wow. My heart. Oh, my God. I can't even stand it. Are you kidding me right now? Here.

[B]

We didn't like you. Come here. And it's. Can you come up? Oh, yeah. Come on up, puppy. So everyone gets a nice look at a happily adopted baby boy. Oh, where'd everybody go?

[A]

You just froze all of a sudden. It was like your computer bumped and then it just, like, froze.

[B]

Oh, well, I don't know what happened.

[A]

I assumed, like, the Ethernet came out or something, but I guess not.

[B]

No, we're all good. I was like, the second I bring my dog up here. Really?

[A]

No, no, it was crazy. It was like. I thought he, like, hit a button, and I thought you were gonna come on and say. You'll never believe what Hank did. I didn't realize I was also, like, frozen.

[B]

No, everyone went away. And here he is. Hang on, Hanky.

[A]

Okay, well, I know why. It's karma. Because you said the last time you were here, we didn't like you. And I would say, not we. You.

[B]

Can you say hello? Hi, chicken.

[A]

It's a baby.

[B]

Are you a baby boy, chicken?

[A]

Wow. Are you shy?

[B]

Are you scared? It's okay. Anyway, that's him. He's still alive, everybody.

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

He's a sweet, gentle man. You did not used to be.

[A]

And now you are literally perfect. He.

[B]

So it's been a Full year and no wrong. It's been a real journey. And so.

[A]

Yeah, how's the journey? Tell me everything.

[B]

One year we went from enemies to lovers. It's been really wonderful.

[A]

One year after getting. I realized, I'd realized a lot sooner that I had made a huge mistake. But by a year I fucking figured my shit out. But like, woof. I made a huge mistake. And then I went, never again. But I was also extremely poor and I was also working 13 hour days and I was also spending any money I did make on doggy daycare. And then I had to take a loan out because I had to pay for my dog's daycare. And then I thought, I've really, really gotten it. So you did it in a much healthier way where you had a home. You had at least some lawn. I didn't even have a fudgeing balcony. You had like, you had a more a safer home for a pup to come to.

[B]

Well, thank you.

[A]

I. And I, I'm just, I'm thankful that he's thriving. He's such a perfect gentleman. I would die for him.

[B]

He's a very good boy. I. Yeah. When we first got him, I. And thank you for mentioning the lawn because I. I actively told Allison we were never allowed to adopt any animal until we had a yard, so. So thank you because that was an intentional decision. But no, he was. I've been telling everyone at the dog park that his Gotcha day is coming up. And everyone there has now known me for a year. And they're like, oh, remember when you used to come here and beg people at the park to take him away

[A]

because it's like your Gotcha day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a sticker at my local book called that says who saved who rescued who? And then underneath it says, I rescued them. They would die without me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, thank you. Someone had to say it.

[B]

Well, he used to have this like neon orange bandana that would say like, please adopt me. I'm a foster. And I would just go to people at the dog park and be like, oh, do you need another dog around? And as everybody knows, so what?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So everyone in the comments very quickly said, like, I don't know why you're even doing that. We all know he's going to end up with you.

[A]

Right, Right. And I knew it already because just I knew you would have a dog named Hank. I didn't know that. I knew it. But when you said his name's Hank, I went, oh, that's your dog. And Then I was like, but I can't say that, because that's gonna just get muddy the waters. I don't want to get involved. And then. And I didn't want to pressure you to get a dog, you know, I was like, that's not my. As someone who experienced a really stupid way of getting a dog, I didn't want to, like, pressure anyone else. But then. But then, I mean, it just was fate. I think it was meant to be.

[B]

Well, thank you. I don't think you did it in a stupid way, but I. I do know what you mean. It was. We were definitely younger and didn't know what we were doing. And also, you were. I were struggling at your job.

[A]

It was sort of like I put every ounce of everything I had into this dog to. To my own expense and my own, like, det. Like, serious detriment. And then I realized, like, oh, the dog is very, like, loved and taken care of, but, like, I've lost my job and, like, all these other things because I was, like, too invested in the dog. It was very unhealthy. Hey, maybe I'll do that for, like, another insane podcast that I'll be on someday. But for now, I'm just, like, it is so crazy to me that it's been a year. M. What is it like now to be a dog owner? Wait, what would you tell yourself? I'm a terrible interviewer. What would you tell yourself a year? Like, what would you tell your past self? Like, hang on. Buckle up.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. I. You'll. You'll figure it out. I don't know. I would.

[A]

You're on your own.

[B]

I really. I mean, I was. I was not in a good. A good place when I first got him. I was really overwhelmed, and I was resentful for the exact reasons why I. Why I feel about having kids and all stuff like that. I was like, I love being selfish with my time and going and doing stuff, and all of a sudden, I had this hyperactive puppy that, like, couldn't be left alone for a certain amount of time. So I was very much in a ups. I was not happy with him. I thought he was very cute, and, like, I didn't mind him, like, living here until he found another place. But once I got attached to him, I forget what the exact moment was, but there was a moment where, like, we locked eyes the right way for the first time, and I went, all right, I can tell you're gonna be here.

[A]

You know what's so funny? Like, I'm Thinking I had such an opposite. Whoa. I'm having a moment because I just realized, like, when I got Geo, there was, like, no, like, the unhinged emotional response, which now I've worked on through a lot of CPTSD therapy, but I didn't realize at the time, but, like, my reaction was so, like, unhinged and, like, I had. There was no way I was not, like, not getting the dog. And it's so interesting that, like. And then. So then I turned my whole life around to, like, make the. To make a life for the dog. But it's so funny that, like, your version was much healthier, arguably, of, like, hey, I don't know if I'm ready for a dog yet. And then it took time for you to bond. Meanwhile, I saw a little, like, a literal tiny ass thumbnail of Geo, and we were looking at other dogs on some website, and I saw this thumbnail, and I went, that's him. There he is. And he's like, eddie clicked on the wrong dog. And I went, go back. That's not the right. And he's like, this one. And I was like, no. And I said, click on that one. And he was this derpy little thing. Oh, my God. But I was like, that's it. I. There's no. And I. Blaze was like, this is a. Probably not a great idea. Everybody in my life said, please. Actually, I didn't tell anyone in my life because I knew they would say, this is a terrible idea. There was no part of my choice that was, like, good. Like, like, like, ready to be. Except that I was like, I'm in love with this dog.

[B]

So I feel like it's almost a candid experience for someone in their early 20s to be like, I'm gonna get.

[A]

Yeah. And it didn't hit me until recently that it was that, because, like, it hit me recently. Like, wow. That was an extremely, like, pivotal, turbulent, and, like, emotional time. And I feel like I. That just occurred to me. So you talking about Gotcha Day and, like, how it. And think about it. Gio's 10 now, and, like, you knew him at his first birthday. So, like, now you having your dog for one year, I just all feels very full circle, and I'm just. I'm in my feels as the millennials.

[B]

I. It took a long time, but I. I very much. He's now my best friend, and I. I can't imagine hanging out with anybody else all the time. But there was that adjustment period. We all know I hate adjustment periods.

[A]

So, yeah, we all know Famously, you hate being inconvenienced and being adjusted in any way aside from a chiropractor.

[B]

Not only. Not only being inconvenienced, but the inconvenience is now you will forever be inconvenienced. That was a tough one for me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, not forever. See, and that's the thing with dogs and human dogs, which I call bait, is what I call babies, because it's like, oh, you either get a dog and it's like, of course there's the emotional aspect of, like, I will presumably lose you, you know, someday. But then with a baby, it's like, oh, you know, this is a fucking lifetime commitment. You are convenience forever.

[B]

Yeah, well, he's. I hope he's around for. For quite some time, but I. It's been quite a journey and everyone at the dog park has been reminding me of that.

[A]

So I heard that he's like, kind of like part parrot, and I think they live to 90, so I think you're okay.

[B]

Yeah, no, very happy to not have a parrot, but it's been nice.

[A]

Your dog is part Paris, so he's like, he's gonna live to, like, at least 90.

[B]

I like how we had different takes where I was like, I love him, but I 90.

[A]

Oh, thank God. No, I'm not going to wish a bird, a bird upon you. That talk about being inconvenienced. That's not what I'm trying to say.

[B]

Anyway, I'm drinking for little hankies, and then next month, this is B day, so that's exciting.

[A]

Wow, this is a big month.

[B]

Big month. So that's why I drink. And then I have something for us for yappy hour, which I'll tell you about later.

[A]

Exciting. Okay, great.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider.

[A]

The world is full of reasons. Might I say to drink. Okay. Things that just, like, are low stakes, but they feel humongous. Okay. Like WI fi going out mid podcast. You could get angry. Okay. You could get angry, but don't get angry. Get Orchard.

[B]

Yeah. Their crisp apple is the leading style. It genuinely tastes like biting into a fresh apple. It's crisp, bold, refreshing, not too sweet, and it's gluten free and made through fermentation. Fun facts.

[A]

I had a game night recently and I brought. I was like the housewife with a tray. And I was like, oh, hello, everyone. It was really just in my hoodie pocket. I had a bunch of angry orchards. And everyone was like, oh, these are my favorite. And I was like, oh, really? No big deal.

[B]

Have made some friends at the dog park by bringing some Angry Orchard their way.

[A]

Just a little brusky, you know.

[B]

I'm just saying they brought it home. I got a text later and they were very thankful. See?

[A]

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[B]

Angry Orchard Cider Company, llc. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. Please drink responsibly.

[A]

Now. When I'm like looking for something, even for my home, that's how. That's how this is. That's how deep this has become. M. This. This thing, this relationship I have with

[B]

Quince, I have recently. Okay, I know. I've talked about their. Their linen items before.

[A]

It's just next level. It's just next level. It's crazy town.

[B]

I just can't stand it. And I for years, so lovely. I've been forcing them upon Allison. I got Allison their 100% European linen short sleeve shirt.

[A]

I remember being skeptical when I first heard about Quince years ago. Just because I was like, what do you mean? You sell like elevated classics, but like super affordable. Surely they'll fall apart. It has been years. I have had that first sweater I got from Quince since then. I still wear it almost weekly.

[B]

So thank you, Quince. Because she was loving her little pants. They're again, they're lightweight linen pants. They've got dresses, they've got tops. They all start at $30 and are effortless, breathable, and easy to wear and repeat over and over. I hope she wears what she was wearing this weekend all the time. She looked so good. I was so. I was so excited for her. Refresh your everyday with luxury. You'll actually use head to quince.com drink for free shipping on your order and 365 day return returns.

[A]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com drink for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com drink.

[B]

Okay. So thirsty. Little rats. This is your reminder. Drink some water and also take your meds because I did not do that. So we're gonna take our meds together. One, two, three. Excellent.

[A]

Have I said this before? Do you know who taught me to swallow pills?

[B]

Who?

[A]

Allison.

[B]

Really?

[A]

In college.

[B]

Oh, that's fun. What? How did she teach you?

[A]

She was like, what I do is I take a sip of water first and then I. I don't know. We just had. We tried different methods and she Helped me get comfortable with swelling pills because I was, like, really? Like, needles and anything medical, which now.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Actually, next week, I'll talk. Maybe talk about Leona's current dentist situation. It's. It's, like, not fun, but all that to say, like, she. I was so embarrassed in college because I had to take Tylenol or something. I was like, I can't, like, swallow it.

[B]

And what was the reason you just, like, couldn't.

[A]

I was so freaked out about, like, swallowing something that, like, whole. I think, like, I still had this idea since I was, like, a kid that, like, and then I would have this, like, gag reflex and, like, you know, and then they would, like, make you practice with M&Ms. And I was like, I don't want to swallow an Eminem whole. Like, everything in my body is like, don't do that. So I just really struggled with swallowing pills, and Allison taught me how, and she, like, walked me through it, and it's just so corny. But anyway, no, my.

[B]

My mom. Oh.

[A]

And then she found me on the. On the floor of the bathroom that time. I took too much Percocet, but not. It was by mistake. So, you know, for her, it was. She really probably didn't.

[B]

She realized.

[A]

Yeah. Well, she kind of accidentally created a monster, if you see what I'm saying. No, no, no. Yeah, I locked it. No, no, sorry. Go ahead.

[B]

I was just gonna say my. My mom taught me when I was really little, because I think she took one look at me, I was like, you'll be taking pills.

[A]

You need. You'll need a pill case someday.

[B]

And so we used to play a game when I was, like, Leona's age of, like, can you swallow this pee? Can you swallow a piece of corn? Can you.

[A]

Oh, geez.

[B]

I know. In hindsight, it was certainly a joke.

[A]

Are you gonna choke? Yeah.

[B]

But she was like, if I teach you early, maybe. Maybe it'll stick. And it did stick for me. I can't speak for anyone else.

[A]

I mean, I got to be honest. Like, I. Leona won't even take a vitamin. A gummy vitamin. Like, I mean, she does now, which is literally one of our sponsors, so I'm not going to get into that right now, but it's candy. I'm sure it's a real godsend. But, like, she has tried other ones that she will not eat. Like, she. If she has any glimpse of, like, medicinal adjacent.

[B]

That's why I drink water. I. I can't stand, and I'll never understand. And I don't want to. The people who can put just a dry pill in their mouth and then drink it down.

[A]

So that's how I was taught. And Allison Goforth was the one who said, you don't have to do it that way. And it changed my life.

[B]

No, I always take a sip, and then I just drop the kids at the pool.

[A]

That's right. That's right. And Allison taught me that.

[B]

And before.

[A]

Well, she didn't say drop.

[B]

The kids swallow before they even hit the back. I can't even tell. I just go gulp as.

[A]

Yeah, they're at the. They're in the whirlpool at that point.

[B]

Yes, that's exactly right. Well, I didn't know that. I'll tell Alison you and the pills say hi.

[A]

Oh, she'll say, not again.

[B]

I. I did not know that. That's a fun fact, Christine.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, good. I didn't know that was one thing that I brought up all the time. Or never. You know how sometimes, like, I feel like I say something over and over

[B]

and then I don't know, because sometimes you say, oh, you know how I'm obsessed with the Grinch? And I go, that's what I mean.

[A]

That's exactly the example. Like, sometimes I'm like. I talk about it all the time. And everyone is like, you literally don't. And I'm like, literally.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, go on.

[B]

No, you're good. I. Oh. For a second, I was like, what should we talk about? I'm so sorry.

[A]

I was about to say, were we at yappy hour? Where are we? I'm so lost. I couldn't even find, like, my own ass right now. I don't think that's a thing. I don't think that's a thing.

[B]

Okay, so I obviously have a story for you today, and it is a sanatorium, obviously.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is a Canadian sanatorium. This is the Tron Keel Sanatorium, which is.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Spelled like French tranquil.

[A]

Whoa. Spooky.

[B]

So in 1907, it was built originally for tuberculosis patients. Of course. I feel like that's what all sanatoriums are as.

[A]

Now, there's a difference between sanitarium, right? And sanatorium.

[B]

It's called the sanatorium.

[A]

No, no, but what I mean is I think a sanitarium is, like, mentally relate, like mental illness. And I think a sanator or.

[B]

I'm looking it up. Don't worry, because.

[A]

Santa, wait.

[B]

I got you. They're other used interchangeably to meet a facility for treating illness.

[A]

Oh, okay, then.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

I don't know why I think of why some people think of like some. Yep.

[B]

While sometimes distinguished sanatorium is focused on active medical treatment and sanitarium on health spa like cooperation, recuperation. They're often used synonymously.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Not what I was expecting.

[A]

Yeah. Weird. All right.

[B]

Sure. All right. Well, I guess you were right and wrong.

[A]

That honestly fits. Thanks.

[B]

You're welcome. I feel like we've had that conversation before and didn't really get a flushed out answer either, so.

[A]

Yep. Yep.

[B]

So the trunk you'll sanatorium, it was built in 1907 for tuberculosis patients and it was built by the British Columbia anti tuberculosis society.

[A]

We are so anti tuberculosis. Like not to like make, you know, a huge commotion and not to kind of like not to make you look

[B]

like you're pro tuberculosis.

[A]

Right. But like to give a really hot take. I'm super anti.

[B]

Well, they were obviously active in awareness and prevention of tuberculosis and they ended up up leasing out 2000 acres and bought 600 acres two separate occasions. They. They ended up with several thousand acres to build this hospital. And the original 600 that they bought would be about $2 million today.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

The amount of acreage that they bought.

[A]

A good amount of land.

[B]

Good amount. The land that they bought already had buildings on it. Basically in the area that they picked. There was two ranchers that lived in the area and they kind of controlled all the land. And over time they ended up buying up all their land. It just person by person, I guess. But when they bought up the land, it already had buildings because those people lived there with their families.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

They agreed that they would use those buildings as makeshift hospitals while the actual was being built. So.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Fun fact. The original hospital was in random buildings. The facility ended up being in an area called Kamloops, British Columbia. And that's because the climate there was top tier for tuberculosis patients. And it was very isolated so patients wouldn't infect anybody else. I say it was built near Kamloops because I think originally they were looking at Kamloops specifically, but the locals who lived there were freaked out that they might catch tuberculosis. And so they made an agreement with this anti tuberculosis society that you could come to our area and build out your hospital. But you have to be a certain distance away from us, so we don't feel like we're going to catch it. And so it ended up being just over 10km away from the town.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Okay. The number they agreed on.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

In the first few years, the sanatorium had about 50 patients and 15 staff. But by the 1950s or 50 years later, they had over 600 patients and staff there full time. And this was possible because the hospital did the classic thing that all the tuberculosis wards did at the time. They developed their own self sustaining community.

[A]

Oh, wait. I mean, it's like, you just can't escape it. It's all over. These utopian utopias, you know?

[B]

I know. And the. The hospital itself ended up kind of getting. I don't want to say an expansion because the hospital itself didn't grow, but a town grew around the hospital because since all these nurses and doctors lived in a quarantine area, they couldn't go home once they got Lord. So they ended up building their own town around the hospital.

[A]

Oh, my God. Imagine being those original people. Like, I'm glad we put you guys 10 kilometers away, because now you have an entire, like, village happening over there. You know?

[B]

You know what? They must have felt so validated being like. So you would have been seeping into our community. Okay. And we were all over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The area around the hospital ended up growing into 40 additional buildings. Four of them were more hospitals. The rest of the 40 buildings were cottages for the hospital staff. They were barns, they were kitchens, they were laundry facilities. They had their own gym, an auditorium, a firehouse, a school. It was essentially a neighborhood built out of necessity for the people who no longer could leave. I imagine during the tuberculosis pandemic that the doctors and nursing staff were like. Like, it was like getting shipped off to war. It's like, well, I can't come back and.

[A]

Right, right. I mean, reminds me of COVID Right. You know, like, having to, like, sleep in separate parts of, you know, buildings and houses and. Yeah.

[B]

Or being, like, quarantined and decontaminated and all this before you can even see other people. Yeah. It just. It feels like, well, I'm gonna be over here. I don't know when I'll come back. I don't know if I'll get sick. I don't know. I mean. Yeah, it's very similar to the most recent pandemic. Huh.

[A]

Wouldn't you know it.

[B]

Wouldn't you know it? All pandemics feel like there's a through line.

[A]

Oh, God. Remember that episode, like, people kept referencing where we would, like, joke about quarantine? There was this one episode where we joked, like, for the entire episode about, like, how silly quarantines were. And then, like, it got brought up years later during the pandemic, and I literally, until now have not said it out loud, because I was like, I can't even begin to think about that. But it does make me laugh a little bit that we were like, imagine a quarantine. Like, such morons when you play, you know it.

[B]

In our defense, what were the odds?

[A]

Never have known. Like, nobody said anything when it first released, obviously. And then, like, in 2020, it was like, wait a minute. That's, like, really didn't age well.

[B]

It horrifies me what else we've said that's not gonna age well.

[A]

I know. Good point. Good point.

[B]

So anyway, this. This hospital ends up growing into its own little town with the hospital at its center for the. For all the people who work there. Amongst all these towns, they also had tunnels underneath each of these or amongst all these buildings. They had tunnels underneath all the buildings so that way they could transport goods to and from the hospital or to and from the stores. And they ended up also using it to bring the bodies back and forth once someone died.

[A]

And if that was inevitable, I think.

[B]

And the classic sanatorium thing with that has tunnels underground to move bodies around.

[A]

It was so that it's, like, not upsetting the other patients and stuff to

[B]

boost morale so that they didn't think they were.

[A]

Oh, yes, it's creepy.

[B]

So the new town ended up being named Tron Keel, which is how we end up. Or because the sanatorium was Tron Sanatorium. So everything just kind of ended up becoming.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Tranquil. There's also a tranquil river. Anyway, so fun fact, by the way, for a short while, the hospital was actually named the King Edward Memorial Sanatorium because King Edward had just died.

[A]

I guess they were like, we know the perfect thing to honor him.

[B]

And apparently everyone out there was doing the exact same thing.

[A]

Whatever. I guess people do that, like, name things after. Yeah, sure.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what.

[A]

How important dead people get to be hospitals. I guess that does make. That does track. I guess.

[B]

I guess so. I mean, I know he was the king, but I'm like, what did he do for the sanatorium? You know?

[A]

Who knows? Maybe he boosted morale. Yeah, they were just, like, big fans.

[B]

I. Well, I guess everybody decided that they were gonna name their facilities King Edward, blah, blah. And then it got confusing, so they had to change it back. So there was like, this weird little, like, stumbling moment where it was called the King Edward Hospital, but it was.

[A]

I just can't. I mean, changed it back. That's why you come up with something original, you know, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

I'm like, just stick with it. God, there wasn't another Trump deal.

[A]

There's no reason, like, don't just wait a minute. Wait a beat.

[B]

Just wait. God. If you had to name a hospital today, what would you name it?

[A]

Is this a trick? Am I supposed to say wait a beat?

[B]

No. Theme Schultz. No,

[A]

that's what I'd name it for sure. And I'd be like, oh, after an important dead person. Oh, wait, I mean,

[B]

I don't know. I don't know. I, I, maybe I would call it

[A]

the Zach Baggins Memorial Hospital. And then it would, like, draw him. Like, it would, like, lure him to me, finally. Because I can't, like, I can never get a hold of that guy.

[B]

You know what? That's a great tactic to get him on the horn. Because he'd call and be like, what?

[A]

Gotta get him on the horn. I gotta.

[B]

Yeah. If you wanted a conversation with him, that would certainly start it. Or at least with his lawyers.

[A]

At least his lawyer would say, oh, you have to change this. That's his name. And I would say, I need him to prove it.

[B]

You know what? For all their hard work, maybe you should name the hospital the Zach Bagan's Lawyers Memorial Hospital.

[A]

They've done more for this hospital than anybody. Okay? So, yeah, I think at least the warden, the turbo, at least the tuberculosis ward. At least if someone's gonna get consumption. Speaking of old episodes, I think that we've got his lawyers to thank for that, for their healing.

[B]

100.

[A]

Yeah. Beautifully said. M. Do you know,

[B]

because I know you love this part where, where money gets involved enough to tell you what

[A]

the, A little conversion rate. Yeah.

[B]

So the patients at this hospital, they were charged $15 a week. Do you know how much that is?

[A]

They were charged $15.

[B]

Oh, first, like, their medical bills were $15 a week to stay there.

[A]

And how much that would be today? Like $300?

[B]

530.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay. Wow, that's a lot.

[B]

Yeah. So then if you just say like 60, 60amonth, all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's like fucking rent. It's like, it's pretty cheap, like LA rent.

[A]

And so are they required? You're going to tell me that? I was gonna say, are they required to work?

[B]

I am going to tell you about that.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

So they were required to work or. Actually, you know what? I'm not sure yet. Well, let's figure it out together in a second. So they were charged 15 a week for treatment but many of them were able to get help for their medical bills. There was a lot of, like, places that were trying to raise funds for them. But by the 1950s, there was a cure for tuberculosis. And so the need for these hospitals tanked. And Tron Keel closed for a second. But a year later, it was reopened as a mental hospital.

[A]

It closed for a second, literally, like,

[B]

they closed the doors, and then they went, oh, I forgot something in there, and reopened the doors.

[A]

Okay. And then a year later. Sorry, say again. They open the doors.

[B]

They. They open them. They opened it up as a. Just mental hospital.

[A]

Okay, so see, but that's what I'm saying. There's, like, a connect. I feel like there tends to be a connection with that term. Right. And like a quote, unquote mental hospital. Like, I feel like that.

[B]

It. I feel like.

[A]

I feel like you're right, but maybe I'm just kind of. I wonder if it.

[B]

I wonder if it was originally, like, tranquil hospital and then it became Trunkial Sanitarium or something. But it is called Tranquil Sanatorium throughout.

[A]

No, what I mean, though.

[B]

I do know what you mean.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I'm with you, but nobody else.

[A]

Don't be with me. I'm lost. I'm so lost.

[B]

So they reopened as a mental hospital because there was, I guess, at other mental facilities, there were a lot of overcrowding. So they were like, well, we've got an open building all of a sudden. Let's just bring them on in here.

[A]

Maybe. Well, maybe that's why. Maybe they would build these sanatoriums for things like tuberculosis. And then it's like, well, we have a cure, and now we have this large medical facility. So, like, why not?

[B]

I feel like.

[A]

I mean, it does make sense.

[B]

I feel like they all turned into either just a different hospital or like a jail. Like something where you just.

[A]

I was gonna say, I guess jails also have overcrowding. Yeah, true. Point. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And they're all over. Yeah. There is quite a similarity here. On top of it being a mental hospital, apparently it became some sort of pseudo orphanage because a lot of abandoned kids also ended up here.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The mental hospital operated. I feel like I've said this a million times. This is kind of giving, like, all the mining towns, hotels, history. I'm so sorry, everybody. But the mental hospital here was under the Kirkbride belief where Thomas Kirkbride was the guy who created a lot of the. He designed a lot of the mental institutions at this that. I've talked about him before. But he was the person who believed that what was very therapeutic for mental hospital patients was work or he felt like that was part of their rehabilitation is that they could. Well, I'll give you more specific, Thomas Kirkbride. If you've ever been on one of these tours to a place that used to be an old institution at all, if they call it a Kirkbride building, it's because it was meant to be like kind of over the top, but a lot of windows so all the air could come in. But also it was a self sustaining community because it was rehabilitative for the patients to work and feel like they were

[A]

very progressive, very progressive and supposed

[B]

to teach them how to like, it was a lot of occupational therapy before occupational therapy was a thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So this was that situation. Thomas Kirkbride, his designs or his plans were used in this mental facility and it was already a self sustaining community when it was the other type of sanatorium or so they just brought it back. And so this whole town had livestock or this whole hospital had livestock and gardens and greenhouses and orchards and all these different farming tasks that patients could perform as part of their therapy. And at that point, I think the patients were paying $50 a week instead of 15.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I'm wondering if they got paid to work or if they were working as part of their therapy and that did not provide any actual money.

[A]

I would feel a hard line to, to find, you know, the, the, to balance between charging people for occupational therapy but also like requiring their work to run the place. Yeah, it feels a little iffy to me.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like they probably weren't getting paid. It's like if you went to like a physical therapist, they wouldn't like pay you 10 bucks for doing it afterwards. And then you use that $10 to pay them and it becomes a circular thing.

[A]

Right. But like also, like rolling it around on a tennis ball isn't really like helping the community.

[B]

I, I, I assume that they're not getting paid for the labor. I think I would agree.

[A]

I would. It feels like probably not. Why would they be.

[B]

I agree. So this opened in like the late 1950s, and it was open until the 1980s, so for like 30ish years because I guess conditions were going down and they're like, all right, this building, we just don't need it anymore. So it became abandoned for a second again, just a quick moment. And then it for a second was a detention center for juvenile aisle delinquents.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then it got bought by this guy who wanted to turn it into a resort.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

I know. And he was born in this area called Padova City. And so he wanted to name it Padova City after his own town. Like just go back to the actual Padova City and leave us alone, you

[A]

know, or at least call it like New Padova City. Yeah, New Padova, New York City, but New Padova City.

[B]

I see npc. NPC and a few projects, Fun fact have been filmed here. Probably the most famous is scenes from the A Team. But I think the A Team, the movie, not the TV show. So really not that famous.

[A]

I don't know either one. I'm sorry.

[B]

Sick.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

And most recently, it is now owned by Tranquil Farm Fresh Produce.

[A]

And oh my.

[B]

They at least have leaned into the history of it a little bit. That sounds coarse for people, doesn't it?

[A]

Like total props to them. And I'm gonna like be like I'm gonna all about it. But like it sounds fake.

[B]

Trunk, you'll. Farm Fresh. Yeah.

[A]

Like what? Farm Fresh.

[B]

They, they've offered tours of the place, historical tours. I think they've also done like, they've allowed overnight investigations here. They've hosted performances here. They've hosted an escape room here. They had like themed Halloween productions here. I think they've made it into like a jump scare. At one point there was one that they actually called like the theme of the Halloween event was Dr. Padova's haunted carnival. So they're like, see, that's good. Nodding at the Padova situation.

[A]

Really good. Doctor. And that's a creepy little name.

[B]

Dr. Padova's haunted has a really good

[A]

like ring to it.

[B]

And they had some other event that Padova's name was also in. But anyway, so they're currently there and I guess it's constantly. My understanding of this is that it's constantly up in the air if this will ever get turned into a resort. And for it's just this farm fresh produce place. But it sounds like they're having a lot of back and forth on whether or not the resort will ever be built. And a lot of locals don't care for it. They don't want it. They think it'll be harmful in a lot of ways, especially because it will be doing even more damage to the history of the indigenous people there.

[A]

But the. What even. Can somebody explain to me? Not you, Em, but like, what do you mean a resort? Like, what are you talking about? Where is this?

[B]

Okay, so it's.

[A]

Remember when I said I'm not Talking to you. And then I'm like, wait, oh, now I'm talking. Yeah, you tell me. Actually, please.

[B]

No, you're good. I was like, literally, it's my next bullet, so I actually can.

[A]

Oh, fantastic. Okay.

[B]

So it would be an eco resort, or it's called an Agrahood, where it's like a neighborhood all based on agriculture. I know it feels like a rich white person.

[A]

Not everything needs to be a portmanteau. You know what I'm saying? And that's like a. That's a platform I'm running on.

[B]

It's called apparently Tranquil on the Lake. Okay. And they've got.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

I think it's gonna have. I mean, it sounds like a retirement community or something.

[A]

It does a little step up from that. Maybe like a little like, I don't know, like my.

[B]

My hometown growing up. Sorry, I heard my voice through your microphone just now and that was such a horrible sound. My own voice.

[A]

How did that happen?

[B]

I don't know, but I hope to never do it again. Speak. So my neighborhood growing up or my. In my town growing up, there was a neighborhood where like all the country clubbers lived. And I feel like that's what Tranquil on the leak is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like this subdivision. It sounds kind of like a subdivision, like for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

[B]

So they apparently would have a winery in the area. They would have like farming tours or something going on. I think it would be four country clubby people. But they could say they live in an eco friendly resort. But I don't really believe how eco friendly it would be. I'm not too sure.

[A]

I mean, but it is in Canada, right? So maybe they do have actual laws about things like this, unlike the U.S. i don't know. I'm not sure though. I don't want to. I don't want to claim that. But, you know, I think here you could definitely get away with saying, like, we're eco, whatever. But I don't know. I don't know if other countries have different rules on that.

[B]

I forgot it was Canadian. And my hope is spiked. So thank you.

[A]

You're welcome.

[B]

But yeah, it's. That's as far as we know about the eco resort. But it. Apparently millions of dollars were paid a few years ago for this to take off. But then there's been a lot of yes and no hot and cold on if it's ever going to take. So right now it's just the produce.

[A]

I imagine there's. I imagine there's a lot of like town hall meeting animosity happening.

[B]

Agreed. The. Today the building is considered one of the most haunted places in Canada. And beyond the thousands of patients who came here over 80 years, there was also two cemeteries that were here. One of them was one of the original family cemeteries and I think that one's been relocated. But there was also a potter's field here for all the tuberculosis patients that were unclaimed. So I'm assuming that's still on the property.

[A]

But people have said got to be weird energy, I would think.

[B]

Got to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People have said that they've seen spirits roaming in the area that is or was the cemetery.

[A]

That's pretty eco friendly.

[B]

That is eco friendly.

[A]

Reduce, reuse. We gotta. I love it.

[B]

The. The ghosts outside, apparently I. I think it has just been like apparitions walking through where they might have been buried, which is fine. Stay exactly where you are. Love the year over there. I won't be there. And then there's ghosts also of course, in the tunnel system.

[A]

Oh, okay. Wait, is that used for anything nowadays?

[B]

No, the whole place is. Or I don't know, maybe it's storage, but I don't think anyone goes in there. I saw a few video clips of it and it looks pretty abandoned. But at the time when it was this like thriving, self sustaining community and the staff was going in and out of these tunnels all the time. One of my favorite fun facts about these tunnels is that they also ended up opening up their own shops in the tunnels. And so just to like it was a space saver, I guess. But there was like a barber shop down there. There was also. Yikes. The morgue was down there. Was that someone's small business, maybe someone's funeral home. But it was. It sounds like it used to be really busy, so that would make sense. But there's a lot of activity today.

[A]

That's kind of cool though that it would be like not just people brought bodies down, like, because that reminds me of Waverly Hills. Right? Where like yeah, the body shoot or whatever and the tunnels. But here it's like, oh, there's that. But there's also like a more jubilant vibe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I don't know.

[B]

So that being said though, the tunnels are said to be some of the most haunted area of the whole thing. But which would make sense because that's where you're carting all the dead bodies as you know, one by one. And I, I didn't even have the number for this, but I'm sure A bunch of people died here.

[A]

And I gotta imagine a tunnel is some sort of a portal gateway. Like, I feel like.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Tunneling a dead body through something is like, probably the most symbolic thing you can get.

[B]

You know, 100%. People down here hear voices and moaning and screaming and crying and voices talking to each other. They feel intense sadness. Apparently a lot of people will feel someone rush past them, like, bump into them really hard. In the buildings. People will see floating lights by the entrances. The lights will turn on and off by themselves. They hear a lot of gurney squeaking. They hear a lot of crying. Often people will hear a wo. Or we'll see a woman in 50s clothes walking up and down the halls, and she looks like she's mourning her child. Oh, no. And I think they've put two and two together because they often see her on what were the pediatric wings.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So also on these pediatric wings, people hear children giggling. They see or hear footsteps running by. People have just heard kids voices in general. But there's also a black, solid black apparition that will peer out of doorways and give you the sense of dread. Whoa.

[A]

What if I gave you the sense of. Of exuberance? Yeah. It's like. Yeah, no, that would be.

[B]

I have yet to experience an original ghost that just makes you want to laugh, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like, oh, you make me smile.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great point. I want to find a ghost who just wants to, like, to show you what. Just show you love and. And happiness and all the good things in the world.

[A]

And so raise. Raise the vibe. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Always dread.

[A]

Always dread.

[B]

People see figures in the windows. They see people wandering the halls. They see twisting mists that will chase them away. Oh, there's also twisting mists that appear in photos that you couldn't see in front of you. There are the spirits of an electrician who died in the basement. There's a patient named Margaret who was found in dead in one of the unused wards that they say she now wanders around. One source said that Margaret is now trying to escape. And I'm like, relax. Like she was a patient who just died here.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

There's also the ghost of a nurse who was apparently murdered by a patient here, which I have to assume that was more mental hospital than tuberculosis ward, but I don't know. And the most interesting of them all is a nurse who allegedly died here because she contracted tuberculosis when she fell in love with one of the patients.

[A]

Whoa. Okay, now, talk about a haunting. Geez.

[B]

Yeah. That's like. That's all the feelings in one. There's love, there's resentment, there's illness, there's grief.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. That's like a heavy hitter story.

[B]

And I like. I mean, it's alleged enough that there's no evidence she could have just gotten tuberculosis because she was a nurse at a tuberculosis ward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, without any love. But we had to throw the love thing.

[A]

So where's the. But where's the beauty? Where's a romance in that?

[B]

You know, where's the whimsy?

[A]

Where is it?

[B]

The stories of this place being haunted have been passed down especially through local town. Through local teenagers who obviously hung out here when it was abandoned. And they did the whole like, oh, we broke in and we saw this, blah, blah, blah. That was like. That's the main reason that this place has any of these haunting stories.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or people who witnessed anything. But because of these stories, the sanatorium got picked up by MTV's show Fear. I don't know if you remember that from forever ago.

[A]

I do, but, like, barely. I was too scared to watch it.

[B]

It. There was also, I think, only like 12 episodes. And then it didn't work out. But MTV had a show called Fear, which was basically like a. A ghost hunting show ahead of its time.

[A]

Seriously. Ahead of its time, for sure.

[B]

The episode. For some reason, they changed the name to Serenity Lake Sanatorium. I wonder if they didn't, like, have the rights to give it its actual name.

[A]

No, I bet you they were like, oh, French. We don't speak that at mtv.

[B]

Yeah, they were like, oh, well, it's by the Tron Keel River.

[A]

So I look up in the translation dictionary. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So on MTV Sphere, this show got traction because of all the rumors swirling around it. It is known as one of the most haunted places in Canada. So MTV went, hell yeah, we're going there. And I guess some of the contestants on the show when they were ghost hunting in this building, they actually heard children in the halls running around upstairs.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

And they started freaking out. However, it's come across my desk that it's been breaking heavily confirmed that a lot of literal local teenagers were paid in pizza to go make noise upstairs during this filming.

[A]

Paid in pizza, you say?

[B]

One of the people who actually wrote an article about this even said that one. Her brother was one of the people who was paid to do this.

[A]

I see. I mean, that feels like exactly what would happen on a show like this.

[B]

Yes, it was back when MTV and VH1 had those crazy reality shows where, like, there were no limits, where they

[A]

would just, like, make stuff up and be like. Like, she eats her own toenails on, like, next. And you're like, what? There's no way she said that and agreed to it.

[B]

It was during that. That time. And this was. I mean, only, like, this was, I think, like, two or three episodes in or something. So I think they were trying to really up the ante and make it seem interesting enough so they would get another season.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I think they were just, like, forcing any story that they could and paying the children anything that they could. But I saw at least two or three sources. People knew someone or had a sibling where they all remember them going to this building overnight.

[A]

Well known in town that, like, that's how it went. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Also, the show, while they were there, they created storylines that I've just never seen anywhere else. Like, they came up with the story that one of the ghosts here is a doctor's wife who just couldn't get over the fact that she died from tuberculosis. Here they came up with.

[A]

The writers were just, like, really getting creative.

[B]

Oh, they had a storyline about a guy called the Pig Man.

[A]

Please.

[B]

Like, they were just saying anything.

[A]

They were just making stuff up.

[B]

They were saying anything. So I say all that to say that the place was only really ever abandoned long enough for teenagers to break in and start saying they saw something there for the shock value. And then MTV came out and did this. And that's probably what got them an even bigger platform and known as super haunted.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But between those two things, that's kind of where all the rumors would swirl around. Other investigators have actually gone there to try and find something. And the scariest thing that they found, which is scary, is that they went into the tunnels and they found a dummy hanging from the rafters.

[A]

Ew.

[B]

But they thought it was a real person for a second, and then they heard screaming, but it was coyotes. But it was clearly like people had left. Either. Either meaner, distasteful people did that as, like, a prank for the next people who would come along. Or maybe it was a Halloween thing that got left.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

But so even people who have gone there to, like, seriously try to investigate have been, like, most of it. I. I'm not getting that vibe. I mean, maybe it's creepy, maybe there's a ghost, but it certainly isn't that haunted.

[A]

And it's scary for, like, a lot of other reasons, too.

[B]

Right. It's scary for very legitimate reasons. And yeah, big actually perfect segue because the owner of Tronkyo Farm Fresh, who that doesn't feel real on its own. The owner actually lives on the property while working there. And he has said that he thinks a lot of it is false marketing and that he wishes people wouldn't do that. So this is a quote from him where he says over time the Internet has turned an unfounded rumor into an Internet truth, which is effectively disrespecting the thousands of local residents who lived and worked here until the 1980s. And he said instead of focusing on the fantastic true stories of the site and honoring those who poured lives, their lives into it, a small group of people are insisting on putting their spin on a story they do not understand nor own. And I can see where he's coming from. However, I did not see him actually deny that it's haunted. So maybe two things can be true at once. Maybe he's like, maybe the first half of that quote that he like control alt deleted was yes, there are ghosts, but I really wish we focused on something else.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And like, also the point of like it's not their story to like twist and change and you know, it's a fair point.

[B]

So he clearly wants people to know that he wishes they focused on something else. So I am putting that quote in here for him. But if you take one look at this place, you would assume it's haunted. And it is on incredibly on a lot of listicles as like one of the most haunted places in Canada. I don't know how much MTV was the reason for that, but there you have it. That is the Tronkyo Sanatorium. And I guess you're just gonna have to go and find out yourself.

[A]

I guess I'm gonna have to watch MTV later.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

watch that episode.

[B]

It was. I, I would love to visit it myself. I feel like it would be very interesting. It is like a, A company because it's the Trunk Hill farm Pressure. So you, I think you have to call in advance to do a tour or they host them at certain times during the year. But there's no way if we went there, even though I'm saying this whole caveat of like, I don't know, it could be a lot of rumors and this guy isn't confirming there are ghosts. I'm saying that. But if we went there, we'd be like, there's no doubt in my mind this place is haunted.

[A]

Like it looks. Oh yeah, okay, I see it's a

[B]

hundred year old sanatorium and it was

[A]

two different types, you know what I mean? Oh my word. I'm looking at it. I mean there are like complete with just like stone circles in the like fields and like there's this. Oh my God. I mean that, the, the main building. I mean it really, like the paint is peeling off in that way that looks. Yeah, like a go, like a silhouette will appear.

[B]

Like a piece of cheese wasn't fully sliced all the way through.

[A]

Yeah, like that kind of peeling. Oh my gosh. It look spooky as hell, dude.

[B]

And to know there were two cemeteries there. It was a tuberculosis ward. It was.

[A]

How many people died?

[B]

Yeah, so many people died there. I mean, so there's a lot of dark energy there. I wouldn't be surprised as a teenager who broke into a lot of abandoned buildings. I'm telling you that like there's. I fully believe that they think they saw something or felt something because that would have been creepy, as in the middle of the night, of course.

[A]

So absolutely.

[B]

I don't know if anyone's lying or just, just. I don't know.

[A]

Who knows? Maybe it's. Yeah. And like to you people probably have different experiences, perceptions. I'm just like, look at this. It's so funny to see the shadow of the Google street view camera guy, like that tiny little electric car. And then there's all these gates like fenced off with signs like no parking. No parking. And you can see that he reached the dead end and he's about to go beep, beep, beep.

[B]

And like turn back, you know it's a dead end. Yeah.

[A]

And he's like this. I gotta get the out of here is sp. Oi. Anyway, that is a story. Good job.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Well, you said you have something for yap hour. I'm going to go pee real quick.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I'm ready to rock and roll if you are.

[B]

I am.

[A]

I'm so sick of these fellas saying, oh, there's a fee for the airwaves on your phone bill. What are you talking about? It just drives me nutty. And that's why we are so thankful to have encountered Mint Mobile. And we are so, so happy that they are a sponsor of ours because they change the old ways. You know, we love a new way of doing things.

[B]

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[A]

You can bring your own phone. Don't even worry about it. You can bring your number. I have done this. We did this with the tour iPad. It was super easy. You can even activate Nissim in minutes and start saving immediately. Immediately. There's no long term contract, so you're not getting in anything long term unless you want to. And I think you might. Yeah, we love it and I think you will too. So if you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] ATWD that's mintmobile.com ATWD upfront

[B]

payment of 45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15amonth. New customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Text and fees extra C mint mobile for 10 details. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. If you have ever looked us up and clicked onto our website. And that's why drink.com that is thankfully because of Squarespace. We have been using them since the day the podcast started. And Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one, from consultations to events and experiences. You can showcase your offerings with a customizable website, which we have done, designed to attract clients and grow your business. And you also get discovered fast with integrated Squarespace SEO tools. It is a kind of a one stop shop to all your website needs. It is super, super helpful. We really would have not been able to make a website as fast as we did if it weren't for Squarespace. I think Christine was able to pull that together seemingly overnight. It just was built and we have Squarespace a thing for that. So check out squarespace.com drink for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DRINK to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[A]

Okay, so today I have a story for you. This came to me via a friend of mine. Well, a friend of ours, sort of Charlie, who is the owner of the lovely dog Naughty, whom we met in Charleston and I fell in love with and became best friends with. So there was a. The dog, not the person. No offense, Charlie. It's. It's mutual. I'm sure.

[B]

We've had the dog a few times at a few book signings.

[A]

Yes, yes. And so she. So she. It is a really dog. So not to brag, but she was in my neighborhood the other day because there was this independent bookstore going On. And my brother was like, this is the gayest. You're like, your neighborhood has suddenly become so gay. Because it was, like, all the independent, like, crafters and, like, bookstores. It was just, like, really, really awesome. But so Charlie and her wife came down with the dog naughty. And, like, we chatted for a few hours and we hung out, whatever. We did the craft fair, and then they left. And I get a text, like, an hour later that says, and I quote, please hold while I pull up my notes. Oh, also, I just told Paige, that's the wife, this in the car. But I forgot to tell you, I have a story for you to use if you need something. My aunt was murdered a while ago, and there's even a Forensic Files episode on it. And I'm like, I've met you several times now. Like, I feel like that's shocking information to hear via text after we just spent the afternoon hanging out. So then link to the Forensic Files episode. So, of course, I had to go do, like, a deep dive. And I texted her, like, are you sure it's okay that I cover this? Like, it's your family? And she goes, oh, I didn't know her.

[B]

Oh, okay, let's go.

[A]

So she said, apparently I was alive when she was murdered. I was around 7, so I don't remember it at all. And she didn't really know much about it until, you know, kind of getting older and learning about it. So I'm going to cover the story because I, of course, watched the Forensic Files episode and then went, oh, my God, this is quite a tale. And it's a good reminder, too, that, like, these p. Victim. Like, victims are people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, it's cliche, right?

[B]

But it sounds douchey to be, like, we should empathize, but, like, it is. It is a good reminder that people that listen to our show could very easily be related to this.

[A]

Like, this is their aunt, you know, or something. It's just. It's a very sobering reminder sometimes. And so, yeah, that's what I'm going to cover. The story of Virginia Russell. Okay. And this is a tale full of red herrings. And I just. I love a red herring. So let's get into it for your story.

[B]

I'm gonna light a candle, actually.

[A]

Oh, lovely.

[B]

Just to. I need the. I need the mood to be right. Would you like to smell it?

[A]

Oh, delightful.

[B]

What did it smell like to you, miss Psychic?

[A]

Hints of some sort of tobacco or leather Amber. Some sort of musky smell.

[B]

The glass is amber. You're that close.

[A]

Oh, that's where that came from.

[B]

Mango and salt.

[A]

It's.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Okay. Well, okay, yeah. It's not even a little bit.

[B]

It's delightful. If anybody needs a new candle, this was from World Market and.

[A]

Oh, wait, I was. Is it pink? Wait, which one?

[B]

Is it mango and pink salt?

[A]

Oh, my God, it's so funny. My brother and I were wandering around there the other day and we smelled every single candle and, like, could not find one.

[B]

We both liked mango and pink salt. It's beyond. So enjoy that. And I am ready for you to. To tickle the. Tickle the eardrums, as you say.

[A]

As I've never said. So here is the story of Virginia Russell, unfortunately, the story of Charlie's aunt. So we've got a story here full of red herrings today. I know that Forensic Files likes to really, like, ham up the. The red herrings, but it's true there are quite a few, so we're gonna get into it. This takes place in Columbia, South Carolina. Virginia, one night, was driving her husband. I don't know if he was her husband or partner, but either way, she was driving him. And something happened. The car was in an accident. It flipped eight times. Both she and her husband were ejected from the vehicle. Oh, my God. And unfortunately, Rodney was killed. And Virginia was rushed to the hospital and survived. She had a blood alcohol level of 0.16, which is almost twice the legal limit. So because of that, she kind of had this. I wanted to say double whammy, but it's like a triple whammy of, like, you not only have been, like, gravely injured, you also are grieving the loss of your partner, and you are now going to prison because you're at fault for it. Like, it's just.

[B]

It's the end of your. Your sanity.

[A]

It's just everything. Yeah, it's everything all at once. And, you know, this obviously had a very, very profound impact on her. When she was released from prison, she told her family that she had found work cleaning houses. And so they were happy with her. They were trying to help her get on. Get back on her feet. And one evening while she was with her family, she got a message on her pager at 8:54pm and she told her family, hey, I've been called to go clean. I have a house cleaning to do. Goodbye. They said, we love you. See you later. And that was the last time they ever saw her. So early the next morning, a man walking his dog finds a woman's body near an athletic field near Rosewood, S.C. and police, of course, are called, and they take a look, and it turns out the victim had been shot three times, executed execution style in the head.

[B]

Oh. Oh, my God. Okay.

[A]

But they only found two shell casings nearby. They fingerprinted the victim and identified her, tragically, as Virginia Russell. And she had only been out of prison for two months at this point, so barely back.

[B]

How long was she in prison for?

[A]

It was not a very long time. I do not have the. The exact stats. I would say maybe like 18 months, maybe something like that.

[B]

And it's for, like, involuntary manslaughter or something like that.

[A]

It was something in that vein. Yeah, sure. Yeah. For vehicular, you know, manslaughter, Something like that. I believe. I believe this is all.

[B]

Yeah, we don't know.

[A]

My. My attempt at remembering. Okay, so they found the shell casings. They identified her as Virginia Russell. She'd been only out for two months. She was missing her right shoe. There was on the foot that was missing the shoe. There was no dirt or debris on the. On the foot. So they thought, like, well, that's weird. She probably didn't walk out here. You know, she. Her. Her foot would be dirty, but her stockings further up had been ripped, and she had scrapes on her knees.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

So what they kind of determined was that she may have been shot once elsewhere and dragged, and that's why her feet would have been clean. But the knees of her. Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible.

[B]

It's horrible.

[A]

It's horrible. It's horrible. So dragged and then shot two more times, resulting in the body being there and the two shell casings nearby. They did find one single hair, but unfortunately, it didn't have the root on it. And back then, hair analysis was very, very early on, and they were not able to use that to, you know, pinpoint any suspect. They did also find at the crime scene two empty beer bottles. And these beer bottles were about 20ft from her body. So they were not sure if this was just trash from somebody who'd been in the field before or if this was related, which has got to be confusing, like adding an extra layer of confusion to the whole thing. There was no sign of sexual assault. Two purses were found near her body, both belonging to her, but they were empty of virtually everything. But maybe a few coins. And so the. Like. One of the early on motives seemed to be robbery. So now, of course, they start looking into Virginia's life, and when they talk to her family, who's obviously just horrified at this news. They tell, the family, tells police, oh, she cleans houses for a living. And after some digging, police find out she's not cleaning houses, she is working as a sex worker. And, you know, didn't feel comfortable telling her family that for whatever reason and was using the pager at the time. The terminology, to be more specific, was a call girl. You know, you'd, it was, it's considered a, like, as if there's a, if there's like a hierarchy within. It's sort of like, oh, you're, you're being summoned. Like you're, you're being called personally. Yeah.

[B]

Like you're, it's more like how would they would say, like there was the, like a prostitute and then an escort. Like it was like.

[A]

Right, right. It's, it's meant to be a little more high class in some, like.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Our regard. Yeah. And so she, you know, was considered a call girl and she had a literal patron her. And so she would get paid and, you know, whatever company or higher up she worked for would basically summon her, give her the address, and she would be off to the location and get paid. And so, you know, they tell her family that. And of course, that is a blow to them as well. You know, it's not easy to find work, especially after a felony conviction. Okay, sure, yeah, I can't, I can't, I can't blame her for that. And also, this means, unfortunately, there's a long list of suspects now. Right? Like, if she's been meeting with strangers, there could be a dozen people.

[B]

Yeah. How many, how many clients has she had?

[A]

Yeah, right, exactly. So they do find her car in an abandoned parking lot two miles from her body. There is a single shell casing inside the car. So now they're thinking, okay, she was shot in the car and then dragged to the second location. Okay. They really. I gotta give a warning if anybody does watch the Forensic Files and there are other shows about this story, but the Forensic Files I can speak to shows some very, very graphic footage of the, of the car and as a crime scene. So just a warning there. Very gruesome. There was a lot of blood on the floorboard. They found another clip. There was a six pack carton of Michelob Light with only one full beer bottle left in the carton. Okay, so now they're thinking, well, okay, we've got one here, two at the crime.

[B]

Oh, it was the same type of beer.

[A]

Okay, I forgot to mention that the, the, the beer in the on the field next to her body was also mclobe Light. And so they're thinking, well, this is, you know, an interesting connection. Of course, it's a very mainstream beer, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything yet, but it's definitely worth noting.

[B]

But. So the thought now is that they were in her car first. Is that what we're thinking? That.

[A]

Okay. Or at least at some point, that perhaps the same person was with her, you know, in the vehicle at the field. Okay. And would have had been drinking. Would have been drinking these beers. So in addition to the beer carton on the floor, they also found her shoe on the floorboard, the one that had been missing from her body when they found her.

[B]

Well, that kind of confirms it, I think, for me. Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very clear that she had been shot in. Inside the car. I think the beer was just sort of a clue as to, like, who could have done this more. So, like, saying who. Like, the beer being in the car was a clue that the beer at the crimes. The other crime scene was relevant, that I wasn't just there by. By random, by happenstance, you know, that, like, it could very well be that this beer left behind was also the perpetrators. And so that's kind of why they're taking note of that. So they decide, well, obviously we have to figure out who she was meeting that night, if she. She's a quote, unquote call girl. So they figured out who paged her, and she had gotten a page from a man named Justin Bullard. And this guy, it feels like this is the most, like, Forensic Files slash, like, SVU criminal trope ever, but he owns an aquarium cleaning business.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I don't know. I think it's only because there was an episode of SVU that Patrick Stump played the villain in, and he was. He owned, like, an aquarium shop. And I was like, what a strange, like, job title to give a villain. But I guess, sure, here we go.

[B]

I guess they do it all, don't they?

[A]

I guess they're jack of all trades. So she had gotten a page from this guy, Justin Bullard. Now, he owned an aquarium cleaning business. He denied any involvement in the murder. He, for. For what it's worth, had no criminal history. But his alibi was being home alone. And I love that they, like, interviewed this retired detective who's, like, this old school guy, and he's like, his alibi was being home alone. And the problem with that was him being home alone. I was like, thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you so Much. Okay.

[A]

And so they're looking around his apartment. They also find that in his phone book, there are several pages ripped out. And those pages were all. All escort services.

[B]

I see.

[A]

They also found a pair of his boots that showed slight discoloration and had been stained with high impact, which is also called high velocity blood spatter.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now, blood spatter analysis doesn't necessarily hold as much weight as it used to, but like, this is blood found all over his shoes. And the DNA analysis of that proved that it was Virginia's body blood on his shoes. So pretty damning.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

They test his handgun, which he also owns and happens to be the same caliber as the murder weapon. And wouldn't you know it, they're the same gun. So they've got what they think is a slam dunk. His boots have her blood on them. The weapon is the same. He was the last person to pager. But Bullard said, oh, nope, not me. It was not me. He had a theory, though. He said, someone could have stolen all of my belongings, belongings committed, committed the crime, and then returned all my belongings. And they said, well, isn't that just patently ridiculous?

[B]

I just don't buy that one.

[A]

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No, it's. It's very nice to have someone that is looking out for my banking. They're changing the way that you bank. They offer the most rewarding fee, free banking built for you and you can get 5% cash back on Chime card and a category of choice like gas or groceries as well. So in. In the categories that matter the most, where you're always trying to budget for those things, Chime is looking out for you. It's just. It's so much nicer than what I was dealing with.

[A]

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[A]

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power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, My Spot, Me and travel perks, go to Chime.com disclosures so he. They said, okay, well, let's humor him for a minute. If that were the case, who do you think would have done this very mischievous, horrific thing? And he goes, oh, well, maybe it was my friend. He's living with me right now because he didn't pay the electric bills, so the power was shut off at his own place, and so I gave him a place to stay. Now, here's where things get weird. Meanwhile, as this is all going on, this guy's trying to defend himself. The prosecutor is researching similar cases in recent times, and they encounter a story of a woman in the area who had a very similar experience, who was also identified as a call girl. This woman had gone to her client's apartment and had noted that it was very dark. There were only candles lit. She felt a little uneasy. And then the man, presumably the tenant of this apartment, pulled a knife and demanded she hand him cash. Apparently, she handed over a couple hundred bucks that she had on her, and he told her, run and don't look back.

[B]

Oh, my God. God.

[A]

Yes. And so she had reported this. And when police looked into it, they find that the tenant of the apartment was a man named Roy Beck. And when they showed her photos. And again, this is another woman, that this occurred before Virginia's murder. This was a woman who had survived her attack. So when they had given her a photo lineup, she pointed out this man, Roy Beck, who lived in the apartment, said, that's the man. So Roy Beck, he also looked nothing like this Bullard guy. But when they took one little slightly closer look at Roy Beck, they found the darndest thing. Roy Beck was a friend Justin Bullard said was living with him at the time of the murder. Oh. Remember his electricity went out because he didn't pay the bills.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

A dark apartment full of candles. So now, two people of interest here who could have done this live in the same apartment. Which also means that, like, even though they're this other guy's boots, presumably he could be literally right, that, like, his roommate slash friend, like, took them and put them back in the closet. Yeah, like, it sounds insane when you first say it, and then it's like, oh, well, if you have someone living with you who does like this, right, Murders people.

[B]

It does sound like if, if Justin is telling the truth. It sounds like he didn't even know his friend would have that in him because he didn't even accuse his friend. He was like, someone must have stolen all of my stuff and put it exactly back.

[A]

Yeah, they're like, well, who? And it's like only one person I can think of. The guy with a key to my house in my apartment. So yeah, the boots are his, the gun is his, but this other guy also has access to all these items and has attacked a sex worker in the past. So it's like, jesus, the lights are out, the power's out. It's all connecting now. Police go into the apartment of Roy Beck, the one with no electricity, and what do they find? They find three empty Michelob light beer bottles.

[B]

Ding, ding, ding. That'll do it.

[A]

Ding, ding. So DNA testing did exist, but they, it wasn't good enough at the time to get a saliva sample off of any of the beer bottles. And so that was kind of a blow glow. But instead they did this thing called super glue fuming, which is crazy.

[B]

Is that just like lighting it on fire and huffing the fumes? Is that it? What's super glue?

[A]

So sorry, like, are we talking about the police?

[B]

Oh, God damn it.

[A]

Yeah, okay, I thought, yeah, they just getting. They're doing whippets in the DNA lab.

[B]

You know, I thought I missed something. I was like, is she talking about the. What they must have been up to.

[A]

And I did realize you switch context really quickly because, I mean, it does sound really crazy, but I was just

[B]

imagining like, oh, their electricity's out. What are they going to do?

[A]

Huffs, right? What else would you do? Super glue vapor. Vapors, Sorry.

[B]

Okay. The lab, the, the, the people against

[A]

them are doing some super glue people testing for evidence. Essentially. They do this thing where they like heat glue up to the point that it vaporizes and then it sticks to a surface, surface, even a non porous surface, like plastic or what have you to. And it. And it. And it turns into a white color and when it touches a fingerprint. So any latent finger or palm prints that are on a non porous surface, or in this case it was a glass bottle, it'll turn into a white solid upon contact. And then you can like find the. I mean, it's really cool.

[B]

Someone who was huffing glue was the first person who created that. And they went, you're not Gonna believe this?

[A]

I think I talked about a rat to riches story. Wow. Wow, that's powerful. So they did find a partial palm print, but weirdly, it did not match any three of these people. So they're feeling, like, totally at a loss here. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. So the prosecutor was like, we gotta stick to these beer bottles, though. There's something here. Like, what are the odds that all these bottles showed up? You know, like, we have to connect these. So of course, now forensic files spends, like, I don't know how long, like, 10 full minutes over explaining the concept of, like, a serial number.

[B]

Well, I bet it was that same older guy earlier who was like, the problem with him being home alone is that he's.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I think everybody had that exact same attitude. It was like, so here's a beer bottle, and this part's called a label. And I was like, really? Are we gonna do this? Are we really gonna do this?

[B]

You know what? Sometimes you need something explained. Like, you're five.

[A]

And I mean, fair.

[B]

They handled that.

[A]

Yeah. And I sure. They sure did. So labels. The beer labels all have a born on date. And the born on date of the spear bottle was 22-10-96. Then it says WF58. W is the geographic code for Williamsburg, Virginia. Fun fact. F is the assembly line that the bottling took place on. And then, of course, 58 is the number of the bottle. And then in the most complex way possible, they. It can explain to me, like, I'm five, the concept of consecutive numbers and the odds in a billion of, like, the same consecutive numbers appearing and whatever. Okay, yeah, we get it. It's his beer. Okay, we get it. It's his beer.

[B]

It's his beer.

[A]

Oh, my God. Okay, we knew that. We knew that already. But anyway, it is for sure. So as it turns out, all these beers came from the same six pack. And as it also turns out, this Roy Beck character, apparently his motive was cash. He wanted. He was desperate for cash to feed his addiction to crack cocaine. And he had first called this escort line to request someone come to his home, had attacked that woman with a knife, gotten a few hundred dollars. But then when, you know, he didn't pay his power bills and had to move out into Justin Bullard's home. He used his belongings to set. He used James. Justin's belongings. Excuse me. To set up the meeting with the next sex worker in an attempt to cover his tracks. Which almost worked, right?

[B]

Yeah, it really did. Almost.

[A]

He. Yeah, he did really throw his buddy under the bus.

[B]

I wonder if they were close or they just roomed together.

[A]

I mean, clearly, they couldn't have been that close. I think Justin was just like, oh, I'm a nice guy, and I let this guy stay with me on the couch. I. You know, I don't. I don't think it went much further than that, because this guy seems like a real scumbag, you know, I mean, not that I know much about Justin. He could be a scumbag, too. I have no clue.

[B]

But Justin, luckily, is flying low right now. I know.

[A]

I was gonna say. Say, at least he got out of here unscathed, so I can't really tell you. So investigators theorized that Roy and Virginia had actually met before. Okay. And I'll tell you why. So he basically took all this stuff from Justin's house, got into Virginia's car after, like, calling her from Justin's pager. They drove around somewhere secluded, had a beer, presumably threw them out the window was how they ended up. Ended up in that area. Area. Now, their theory as to why they'd met before is that, you know, he knew he had to kill her. He. He couldn't just rob her, right? Like, he knew this woman would have known who he was. That's the theory. And so they believe he shot her right there in the car, you know, dragged her body out into the road, shot her two more times, took the cash from the two purses she had with her, drove her car two miles away to dump it, and then returned to Bullard's apartment and put his boots back. Put his.

[B]

His.

[A]

You know, put his stuff back. But the beer. The beer tied them all back to. To the murder site, which is just crazy. Like, thank God, you know, for that. But it did place him at all three crime scenes. And it's kind of scary how they could have gotten the wrong guy, because it was. I mean, you see blood on a guy's boots in his closet. It's like, hello.

[B]

I mean, Justin was probably geeking out, being like, what the. As. I mean, as, you know, seriously terrified. Terrified of the. The concept of being framed and going to jail. I. As everyone is. But it's first, like, I. It's a pervasive fear of.

[A]

I don't know that everyone is.

[B]

No, no. I'm always scared of it.

[A]

I don't know that everyone is. To the degree that you seem to be.

[B]

I don't know what my deal. I think I just watch so much Law and Order and so much the Catcher Predator that I'm just like, constantly seeing people going to jail, and I'm like, hope that's not me. Hope that's not me. And I don't know why I'm just sitting here, like, drinking my fucking juice boxes, like, I'm not doing anything but horrifies me. And the idea of, like, oh, there's blood on my boot. And that's certainly something I can't explain away. I don't know. Justin must have been freaking out.

[A]

Someone could have borrowed them and put them back. Is a crazy thing to say to the police when you have blood on your boots. Like, he really is. I mean, and it was. Right. It was true. Like, but it really. It could have gone so bad if none of this beer and all this had happened, you know, I mean, it's really frightening after this.

[B]

Justin certainly shares the same fear I do. I'll tell.

[A]

I would hope he at least doesn't let scumbag sleep on his couch anymore.

[B]

Yeah, he had. He learned a lot from this.

[A]

Get, like, some better boundaries, maybe.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But, yeah, that's the story of Virginia Russell. And like I said earlier, I mean, it's sort of just a reminder that, like, even an episode of Forensic Files, which is the kind of show that's always on it, like a hotel or, you know, when I'm folding laundry or something, it's like, that's somebody's aunt. Like, that's your. That's my friend's aunt.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Know, it's just like a very, like, stark reminder sometimes, and especially when it comes to cases about sex workers where, you know, they're kind of treated with less dignity anyway. Like, it's. It's easy to kind of just.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Easy to blur past. So I want to thank Charlie for sending me that and letting me cover it. That was very.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, kind of you. And I know you don't remember, but I'm sorry to your family that that happened. That's very tragic, obviously, and I'm glad that they got the right guy behind bar, you know?

[B]

Yeah, I. It reminds me a lot, the. The. The. Our personal moral of the story being, you know, everyone's related to all those people that are victims, are related to somebody. It reminds me of that. That TV show that it was forever ago, but every episode was a different person talking about a family member where something tragic happened to them. But it was like the DC Sniper. Like, it was like his daughter was being interviewed, and then the next. Have you not heard about this?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

It was a long Time ago, but every episode someone was getting interviewed because they were a relative of some notorious killer. And it was like, how did this change your life? Did you see the signs? And it was, it feels like a Nancy Grace.

[A]

Not Nancy Grace. Feels like a, Like a Barbara Walters special or something.

[B]

It should have been. It was just a TV show, but I think it only ran for one season because people got so uncomfortable watching people talk about.

[A]

I bet it's uncomfortable. I've seen, like, an interview with the sister of. It was one of the, you know, a shoot, I hate to say one of the shooters, but, you know, one of the more recent shootings and she was the sister of that, of that shooter. It may have been actually the Charlie Kirk assassin. I'm not sure. I don't remember the details. But I remember even in the comments of that about the article, people were, like, losing their absolute minds about, like, whether or not. Just debating. And I don't really know where I stand. I haven't put enough thought into it, but like a research into it. But just the thought of, like, does she deserve a platform? And like, does. It's just a lot of ethical quandaries there, I think.

[B]

Yeah, I, I was, when I would watch that show, I shouldn't have been watching it. I was way too young. But I remember thinking, like, oh, I really like this concept. But it's got to be really hard for everyone involved. The interviewer, the interviewee, us watching it. Like, it's.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It was before the true crime craze. I think today it would probably do well, but.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure. Like, I think they do. Yeah. I wonder if there's any sort of any version of that nowadays.

[B]

On a lighter note, just to end it, what I, as someone who has watched Lawn Order SVU front to back a thousand times, where the was Patrick Stump? What episode?

[A]

I swear he was in an episode.

[B]

I just don't know what he looks like. Oh, so I just don't know.

[A]

Just rope. LOL and order lala in order. Okay. He was Marty Dressler. You know who that is?

[B]

I feel like I, I, it's sad, Christine, how much Law and Order I watch.

[A]

It wasn't a cunning IT technician and kidnapping mastermind. So maybe he wasn't an aquarium owner. I just have this weird memory of him, like, having an aquarium in the role. And I was like, what up? I was like, they would give him an aquarium. Aquarium. I don't know. Maybe I'm inventing that.

[B]

No, is. Was it Law and Order SVU I don't think it was longer svu.

[A]

Yeah, it was.

[B]

Was it? Oh, wait, I'm mixing him up with someone else.

[A]

Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe.

[B]

I don't know. I'll go watch it now. Now that I know who I'm looking for.

[A]

No, don't look for him. It's embarrassing. He listen at that point because, you know, it wasn't his cutest era, let's put it that way.

[B]

I see. Okay, so if I look at him, I'll go.

[A]

It was Law and Order. It was not Law and Order.

[B]

It was not a svu.

[A]

I don't know. What's the difference? What's Mothership? What's happening?

[B]

There's a lot of Law and Orders. SVU is the only one that's still around, though. SVU is the last surviving, I think. And then there was Law and order, criminal 10 that just got canceled, but

[A]

this one says it's the original.

[B]

Okay, so it's not svu.

[A]

Oh, okay. Never mind.

[B]

There's a lot of them. It's like its own Marvel Cinematic Universe. Yeah, it really is. Because they'll. They'll sometimes do, like, crossovers, and it's like, oh, Olivia Benson is working with this person today.

[A]

Oh, I do like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Especially Law and Order, Criminal Intent, because that was Elliot Stabler's spin off. And then he would often come back on SVU and she.

[A]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

The whole thing. Okay, well, I'll go watch that again, probably.

[A]

And works at a pet shop. Like, I feel like there's something there.

[B]

I'll let you know.

[A]

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[B]

Well, thank you, everybody, for listening, and happy Gotcha day to Hank. And congratulations, Patrick Stump, for being on an episode forever ago.

[A]

Listen to what guitarist Joe Troman of Fallout Boy fame said when they asked for a quote about Patrick being in an episode of Law and Order. It's cool. He said they chose him because, well, look at him. Joe Trump laughed, looking all sweet and looking all nice, but he's a real deal creep underneath those glasses.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

That's not nice.

[B]

Well, I'll let you know how big of a creepy is. I have a feeling. I feel like he's got to be a killer. I feel like no one guessed on Law and Order to not be the

[A]

villain, you know, creep in that. That show, in that ep.

[B]

Thank you, everybody, and we'll see you next week. And that's why we drink.

[A]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with

[B]

a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much.

[A]

Please for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint.

[B]

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[A]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.

[B]

No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, judgment.

[A]

Anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] your next chapter in healthcare starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our camp campus, see live demos, meet instructors and learn about our Associate Degree in Nursing program that prepares

[B]

you to become a registered nurse.

[A]

Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now at Carrington. Edu Events. For information on program outcomes, visit carrington. Edu Sci Fi.