E490 Reverse Victorian Child Trauma and Skeleton Touching Collaborations

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink – Episode 490

Title: Reverse Victorian Child Trauma and Skeleton Touching Collaborations
Release Date: July 19, 2026
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Episode Overview

Episode 490 of "And That's Why We Drink" brings together all the eccentric humor, spontaneous tangents, and deeply engaging storytelling that fans have come to love. Christine and Eva (subbing for Em) dive into a blend of the absurd—ranging from Victorian hoop-and-stick games to “skeleton touching collaborations”—before delivering a chilling paranormal story about a haunted Californian cemetery-turned-steakhouse and a riveting true crime case, the murder of Jody Loomis. The chemistry between the hosts is palpable, with memorable banter, personal anecdotes, and conversations that oscillate between laugh-out-loud funny and poignantly touching.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up & Tangents: Hoop-and-Stick, Tie-Dye, and Reverse Victorian Children

• [04:10-12:00]
  Christine recounts traveling across New England and how she finally achieved her dream of buying an authentic Victorian-era hoop and stick—then lugging it home on a plane, to the amusement (and confusion) of everyone she encountered.
  • “I now own a hoop and stick…and I carried it across the nation.” – Christine (06:42)
  • Discussion of how difficult Victorian children's games actually were, compared to the digital laziness of today.
  • Hilarious speculation about becoming neighborhood legends through unicycling and penny-farthing biking.
  • Banter over "Reverse Victorian Child" memes: what would make a Victorian child faint if they came to the future, and vice versa.
  • Extended riffing about themed office dress codes (e.g., Tie Dye Monday, Pajama Wednesday).
• [14:00-18:00]
  Eva discusses her liminal state and recent ventures into daily tarot readings on TikTok/YouTube, sharing an uncanny synchronicity involving a folklore-themed Oracle card and her high school yearbook quote:
  • “The meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you don’t expect to sit.”—Eva's yearbook quote (15:16)
• Christine and Eva both reflect on how sharing personal routines and creative content (tarot readings, travel vlogs) are acts of self-care and possible connection points for others.

2. Paranormal Story: Buena Vista Cemetery & Hunter Steakhouse Hauntings

[26:45-63:11]

• Setting the Scene [27:33-30:00]:
  Christine narrates the history of Buena Vista Cemetery in Oceanside, CA—a picturesque site on a lagoon, established in the late 1800s and quickly abandoned by the early 20th century.
• Mass Disinterments & Bodysnatching [30:36-43:24]:
  • Over multiple waves of redevelopment (1920s-2020s), construction unearths countless unknown bodies—estimates eventually climb to over fifty.
  • Disturbing detail: old headstones repurposed as foundation for a freeway ramp over the site (“…used them as parts of the highway ramp.” – Christine, 34:00).
  • Deeply disrespectful handling by city officials—bones placed in burlap sacks by project managers to avoid project delays.
  • Workers eventually rebel against orders, secretly re-burying remains on the land.
• Morbid & Macabre Humor [43:35-50:01]:
  Christine and Eva spiral into comedic debate over the proper etiquette of dressing each other’s skeletons should their remains be discovered in bizarre circumstances:
  • “I consent to putting tie dye on my skeleton! What’s wrong with you?”—Christine (50:02)
  • “I’m not dressing your naked skeleton and I’m putting that out on the record right now.”—Eva (51:23)
• Haunted Steakhouse [56:00-58:58]
  Now the site of the Hunter Steakhouse, the property is infamous for paranormal activity:
  • Doors slamming, lights flickering, chandeliers swinging on their own, hostile presences.
  • Repeated sightings of a hostile male ghost and a woman in black Victorian attire (possible link to a perfectly preserved body found in the 1970s).
  • “A woman is seen…near the stairs…in all black and 1800s vintage clothing.” – Christine (58:01)
  • A photo submitted by a server allegedly shows an apparition in the background (61:57).
  • The steakhouse displays a plaque warning: more bodies likely remain beneath the restaurant.
  • Discussion of how disturbing it would be to eat and work in a building with so many knowingly disturbed graves, adding a personal bent to the chills.

3. True Crime Feature: The Murder of Jody Loomis

[68:24–95:15]

• The Crime [68:24-76:09]:
  • August 1972, Snohomish County, WA: 20-year-old Jody Loomis vanishes while biking to see her horse.
  • She is found alive, barely, by passersby, but dies en route to the hospital; later determined to be raped and murdered via gunshot.
  • Initial suspects include people on the property (Rice family), Jody’s fiancé (who worked at the hospital where she died), and area locals.
• Long Cold Case & Heartbreaking Family Toll [78:54-88:36]:
  • Years of dead ends, suspicions, and lingering trauma for her sister Jana, who vividly describes the heartbreak and how Jody championed the underdog.
  • Family maintained Jody’s room as a memorial.
  • DNA advancements allow preservation of critical evidence (fluid on her boot), but no initial CODIS match.
• Breakthrough [89:34-95:14]:
  • Forensic genealogy zeroes in on the Miller family; Terrence Miller emerges as a suspect, with a criminal background of sexual abuse.
  • Police collect his DNA from a discarded coffee cup at a casino—match confirmed.
  • Miller, arrested at 77 years old, pleads not guilty but dies by suicide before sentencing (using the same type of gun used in Jody's murder—“He had shot himself with the same type of gun he had used against Jody. .22 caliber pistol.” – Eva, 93:24).
  • The jury returns a guilty verdict posthumously; Jody’s family expresses bittersweet closure.
    • “He got away with it for 48 years. I was so glad they finally got him. Justice was almost done.” – Jody’s brother John (95:15)
    • “I miss her for all my years that I had with her and for all the years that I didn’t have with her.” – Jana (95:15)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “These little Victorian kids were really children!” – Christine, riffing on the toughness of historical children (08:32)
• “If I ever get buried and they find me and I’m not in tie-dye, you know what to do…” – Christine, requesting posthumous tie-dye rescue (49:03)
• “It does feel so wrong… so disrespectful.” – Eva, reacting to gravestones being used in the freeway (34:04)
• “That looks like gray-out Matilda accidentally got out of her bed… She also looks like she’s going to stab me. I’m so afraid of her.” – Eva, reacting live to the steakhouse ghost photo (62:20)
• “I’m not dressing your naked skeleton and I’m putting that out on the record right now.” – Eva (51:23)
• “He got away with it for 48 years. I was so glad they finally got him. Justice was almost done.” – John Loomis (95:15)
• “I miss her for all my years that I had with her and for all the years that I didn’t have with her.” – Jana Loomis (95:15)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |---------|-------|------------------| | Opening Banter | Hoop-and-sticks, tie dye, travel | 04:10–12:00 | | Eva’s Tarot Readings, Liminal Spaces | TikTok, strange oracle | 14:00–18:00 | | Christine’s Office Tour in Scranton | Office fan journey | 20:01–25:01 | | Paranormal Story Intro: Buena Vista Cemetery | Setting the scene | 26:45–30:00 | | Disinterment & Burial Mishaps | Cemetery bodies, disrespect, highway | 30:36–43:24 | | Ghostly Steakhouse | Paranormal activity, apparition photo | 56:00–63:11 | | True Crime Story: Jody Loomis | Crime, suspects, cold case tech | 68:24–95:15 |

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Tone and Chemistry

The hosts seamlessly blend irreverent comedy with deep empathy around both the paranormal and criminal sides of their stories. The absurd (discussions of hoop-and-sticks, skeleton etiquette, and bizarre modern rituals) is tempered with heartfelt listener relatability and respect for victims. Running gags (Victorian children, skeleton dressing, office fandom, Eva’s TikTok liminality) enliven the pace, while the shift into true crime is handled with care, balancing necessary detail with emotional weight. The duo shine brightest in their collaborative storytelling and quick-fire wit.

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Conclusion

Episode 490 is a perfect encapsulation of "And That’s Why We Drink": a zesty cocktail of humor, morbid curiosity, and genuinely affecting stories. Whether pondering the logistics of skeleton tie-dye, marveling at haunted restaurants, or advocating for justice in cold cases, Christine and Eva strike a unique and satisfying balance. Both the paranormal and true crime features are packed with memorable detail and assured delivery—making this episode stand out for both longtime fans and new listeners alike.

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Find the show:

• Website: andthatswhywedrink.com
• Socials: @atwwdpodcast

And as always…

“And that’s why we drink.”

Transcript

[Christine]

So good, so good, so good.

[Eva]

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[Christine]

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[Eva]

There was a time, Em, when I searched under the beds for killers and clowns, and instead I found a lemon and my life was changed for the better. However, it was on that trip when I realized, oh, Em and Eva don't look under the beds every single night for murderers. That's odd. I would say, like, lemon is the silver lining of my OCD diagnosis. Would you agree?

[Christine]

I think. Well, I feel cornered. I'll say lemon was a benefit.

[Eva]

Okay, we got it, folks. Oh, God. As you can see, OCD is much more than the stereotypes, because if that was a stereotype, things would be really wild. Compulsions can be physical, like checking locks or under the bed, or mental, like replaying past events. If you feel like you know what this is like and you may be wondering or curious, no CD is here for you. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can, of course, make it difficult to find the right help. OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called erp, or Exposure and Response Prevention. That's what helped me recover from that very difficult period of my life.

[Christine]

With no cd, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD and noc. Therapists are highly trained, so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. NOCD therapy is covered by insurance as well for over 155 million Americans. So if you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help.

[Eva]

Go to nocd.com and book a free call with our team to learn more. That's n o c d.com to Schedule A free call and learn more. We're here.

[Christine]

We're queer We've got tie dye. We're matching both.

[Eva]

We're both in tie dye. Love it.

[Christine]

I. It felt like a tie dye day. It's the day before Friday, so I'm pre. Pre excited for the week.

[Eva]

You're like casual Friday, but casual Thursday.

[Christine]

That's right. Yeah. I would prefer a casual Thursday if I worked in an office. Actually. Casual Wednesday would feel nice also, because it's, like, right in the middle.

[Eva]

I feel like it should be, like, pajama Wednesday. And then Friday is more like casual. Like, we're going to hang out later. Maybe, you know, like, Friday you should get to go.

[Christine]

You should go dressed so you can go straight to the bar afterwards or,

[Eva]

like, whatever you do afterwards.

[Christine]

Yeah, you should be able to wear your cute little, like, your romper or, like, you know, whatever you want to wear.

[Eva]

Your cape.

[Christine]

Your cape. Like, if it's chilly, you know, your shoulders won't have to worry. I really. I. I agree. I think Fridays should be whatever you need. Wednesday should be pajama day. What would the other days be? I'm trying to avoid corporate outfits.

[Eva]

Stay home, maybe.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So maybe for some people, Wednesday is pajama day.

[Eva]

I was gonna say. I don't know. I don't like working, so I think that I'm not the one to tell you how to run your office, people. You run your own office.

[Christine]

You tell me, though, if tie dye Monday would do some real damage.

[Eva]

That in a good way, I'm gonna say, like, naturally, tie dye Tuesday just has a better ring to it. But I like. I like where your head. I like where your head's at, so.

[Christine]

That's a good point.

[Eva]

Yeah. I. This is why we're a power team, right? It's like, wow, one idea after the other. We're just making waves.

[Christine]

No, because I feel like I had a good idea. And then you went, actually, what about this?

[Eva]

And I went, let's just up the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Really change the game there. Well, what's been going on with you? We haven't talked in, like, two whole weeks.

[Eva]

I'm just been missing Carmen San Diego style across the world. I don't know where, but just around. And have you had a lovely time traveling?

[Christine]

I did. I really needed it.

[Eva]

I.

[Christine]

Well, I. It started with a family vacation with Allison's family.

[Eva]

And then it always does.

[Christine]

It always does. I need a catalyst to get me to the east Coast.

[Eva]

The first domino's got to go over, you know?

[Christine]

And then there was a wedding in Connecticut that was. There was a few Days. I needed to be in Connecticut for that.

[Eva]

Where in Connecticut?

[Christine]

Old money Connecticut.

[Eva]

It was that the name of it? Oh, no, that's right.

[Christine]

Imagine being a town you're like, we're going to. I love was. It's near Mystic, Connecticut, where I did.

[Eva]

I see.

[Christine]

Obviously checked out mystic on the name.

[Eva]

Oh, I've been to mystic, but only once.

[Christine]

Oh, it was very nice.

[Eva]

The aquarium I went to.

[Christine]

What's up?

[Eva]

I went to the aquarium.

[Christine]

I did not. But they had a bookshop that sold our book.

[Eva]

Wait, which one? I've been there.

[Christine]

Alice's Little Haunted Bookshop.

[Eva]

Yes. Yeah. My mother in law, like, loves that spot because they live in Connecticut. And so every time she goes there, she sends me a little picture.

[Christine]

I think it's a coastal chain. I thought it was it. I thought it was just in mystic, but then one of my friends also just saw our book and they said, oh, I was just at. And I was like, wait, you were in Mystic? And they're like, no. So I think it's the store. It's in different places.

[Eva]

I didn't know that. I've only heard of the mystic one.

[Christine]

Yeah, no, the place I went was. There was Old Saybrook. I also went to Greenwich. I know. And. But that was just Connecticut. I was trying to hit all of it. I did. I spent time in every state in New England. I went to New York. I went to Pennsylvania.

[Eva]

Word.

[Christine]

I was all over the place. I'll tell you one of the things I did. I'm very excited to report back to you. Actually, two things. I don't know which one's going to require more conversation, so I want to say that one last. The first thing I did. Okay. That I need to talk to you about. And by the way, then I had to travel. I had to carry it all the way back because, no, it was too expensive to ship back. And also it was too big to put in, like, the overhead, so I had to hold it. No, I found it finally in real time, because did you know that they're so hard to actually find?

[Eva]

What? You did not take a hoop and stick on the cabin? In the cabin, I found a hoop

[Christine]

and stick and I carried it across the nation.

[Eva]

Did anybody stop you or try to?

[Christine]

Everyone.

[Eva]

I thought you were gonna say nobody dared. And then you said, actually, I hit a bump at every turn.

[Christine]

Okay, first of all, I don't know what the hell's going on. I tried to ship this back, but it would only fit in a box that I guess was so big that to Ship it from New York to California. $800 to ship a hooping stick.

[Eva]

And I went, shape is like the size of a truck tire. So I imagine, like, if you were. I mean, it's obviously like an ounce heavy, but if you were to, like, the space that takes up literally, like,

[Christine]

the people who were like. I was like, can you just tell me what box this would fit in? And then they started laughing. They're like, I'm so sorry, but this would be 800 saying, do you want the faster one?

[Eva]

Which is like 780.

[Christine]

I was too embarrassed to tell them that it was a hoop and stick. So I, I took the stick part off and I kept it in my backpack because that's easy. And so I was. It just looked like a hula hoop. And they were like, we're sending a hula hula hoop. They were like, for 800, do you want to send a hula hoop? And I went, I, I don't, I can't do that.

[Eva]

I can't.

[Christine]

So I now own a hoop and sick.

[Eva]

And it was your carry on. Now we know you can take that on.

[Christine]

It was a carry. It was not an easy carry on, I'll tell you that.

[Eva]

Because they give you a hard time.

[Christine]

The flight attendants were lovely. They put it in, like, their own personal storage.

[Eva]

They put it in, like, the first class, like, next to the blazers and

[Christine]

yes, yes, because it couldn't sit. It obviously couldn't go above. But it couldn't be next to my knees either because it was like it would get into everyone else's space.

[Eva]

It just rolls down the aisle and you're like, hang on with the stick all.

[Christine]

So anyway, I just, I wanted it on record that I, I, I have a hoop and stick. It's been very. I've been waiting to find one and I tried it.

[Eva]

Okay.

[Christine]

It's actually so effing hard. Those little Victorian kids were really children.

[Eva]

I mean, they were playing with rusty cans half the time. Like, you know, they were built of stronger stuff than we are.

[Christine]

They clearly, I mean, even the skill that it takes to hoop and stick, like, I guess the name of the game was, how long can you keep a hoop up using the stick? And they would just go for miles and miles. And I can't do it for five fucking feet. I, I don't know how they did it, but I guess if you have all the time in the world and no other toys like the.

[Eva]

And just like a dirty alley and street. Yeah.

[Christine]

This is what happens when there aren't screens the kids are good with the.

[Eva]

Like, I would draw with squishy bugs. That's so disturbing also, you know, like, there are other disturbing things that have been done, even in the 90s, you know.

[Christine]

Anyway, that was a big thing. I really.

[Eva]

I'm delight. I am over the moon, I gotta say about this.

[Christine]

Thank you. And I'm really. I'm hoping that I get good at it. So in my neighborhood, I'm known as the. Like, there's someone who uses that.

[Eva]

You're already for that. It's too late for that.

[Christine]

You've already.

[Eva]

Whether you're good at it or not. Honestly, if you're Were. If you're bad at it, it'll probably stick faster on.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's the part. Because I thought when we first moved here, I was like, oh, I'd love to get, like, back into, like, unicycling. And then I'm like, I notice the person who unicycles.

[Eva]

Well, that's what happens usually when you move, like, into your neighborhood. You're like, I really want to settle back into my roots, you know, I

[Christine]

need to be known for something. I don't know what's wrong with it,

[Eva]

cycling, but imagine if I got back

[Christine]

in unicycling and hoop and sick at the same time, and then I'm unstoppable.

[Eva]

I mean, the roads are going to be dangerous for everybody.

[Christine]

No one's gonna know what to expect. That's at least. You know. What I've always wanted to get into is Penny Farthing, which is like the really big Victorian bike. With the one big.

[Eva]

You would do that. It's disturbing to me.

[Christine]

We used to have them at the prop house and I. I was. I was too scared to ever learn how to try to run.

[Eva]

It seems terrifying. I would die immediately. Instantaneous death.

[Christine]

Anyway, that's why I drank, because I'm very excited that I have a. I

[Eva]

like how little the stick is, though. Like, why is the stick part so fucking small if the hoop, like, I don't.

[Christine]

It's like a foot long. That's it.

[Eva]

Yeah. I thought it was gonna be more of like, you got more. More length to use rather than just.

[Christine]

Yeah, I guess you only needed to just kind of do this and just hope it stays balanced.

[Eva]

Right. I thought it's supposed to roll the hoop and you're supposed to like.

[Christine]

Like, hit it this way.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. Do you not even know how to play it? And you're, like, inventing your. No wonder you're so bad at it. So you're gonna be known as the person who has no f. What they're doing with a hoop and stick. Which is so much funnier to me than actually being good at it.

[Christine]

Well, you know, they had that like, trend for a while.

[Eva]

They roll down the. Hit the street and you like.

[Christine]

Yeah, but I think I use this to like, try to keep it balanced. Right?

[Eva]

Like upright. Upright, yeah. Okay. I thought you were doing like a. A plate spinning situation. And I was like, well, that's your clowning kicking in.

[Christine]

No, I will. There was that trend for a while about like. What's the sentence? What's the crazy sentence? You could say that I make like

[Eva]

a Victorian child always funny to me.

[Christine]

I feel like in reverse, like this. This is something a Victorian child would be like something that would make a future person.

[Eva]

We never think about it that way, do we?

[Christine]

But if someone said, let's play with a hoop and stick, I. I clearly can't keep up with them.

[Eva]

They left off the schoolyard.

[Christine]

They'd be doing laps around me. Yeah.

[Eva]

Oh my God. And then we'd all have. We'd fucking have a high cholesterol, like heart attack. And they'd be like, these people are made of fucking. These fucking people are not withstand anything.

[Christine]

I will say I have one other thing I do really want to talk to you about. About.

[Eva]

Right, that one was supposed to be not as talkative. So tell me the second thing.

[Christine]

Well, I was gonna say I'm aware that I'm kind of taking over the conversation right now, so I want you to give a. Give a divide here and tell us why you drink.

[Eva]

Fantastic. Because I'm so ready. Because look at this bad boy. It's a smoothie.

[Christine]

It looks delicious.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. It's like a berry. It's supposed to be healthy for me, but it had like. And look, they brought me a pink straw today.

[Christine]

That's so fun. Is this from the same place you usually go to or.

[Eva]

No, you know what it is and I can't stop. Well, no, it's not my big bees. Actually, no, it's a different place. It's some sort of farm juicery situation that's far too expensive. But I don't live in la, so I can't complain too much.

[Christine]

Does it taste like la?

[Eva]

I'm about to find out. Oh, yeah, it's got dates, it's got, you know, all the classics. You know, it's good for my. It's collagen. I don't know what the fuck is in it, but it was expensive. But I figured, you know what? Treat yourself.

[Christine]

Before I lived in L. A. I really did not understand, nor was I willing to understand a date in a smoothie. It's really a game changer.

[Eva]

You had no. You had absolutely no acceptance for that.

[Christine]

I was like, I'll pass.

[Eva]

But when you visited me and I was pregnant and I just ate so many fucking dates.

[Christine]

It's delicious.

[Eva]

Get the baby out. And I was like, I'm trying. Was it dates or figs? I don't know.

[Christine]

Figs. I still don't stand behind, but dates are delicious. It's like. It's like nature's caramel.

[Eva]

Well, that's beautiful.

[Christine]

That's how it was described to me to get me to eat it. So

[Eva]

I'll tell Leona that later, though. Perfect.

[Christine]

It's nature's caramel.

[Eva]

Okay, now tell me the second thing, because the reason I drink is that I just don't even. I'm in such a liminal space. I feel in my life that I don't even know why I drink this week.

[Christine]

What have you been doing the last two weeks? Where'd you go? What'd you do? Who'd you see?

[Eva]

Just like, you know, having a neurotic breakdown every once in a while. Cool.

[Christine]

What'd you eat?

[Eva]

Not much. Yeah, I sort of lost my appetite. It was a. It's just been a weird time. I feel like I'm in a liminal space for real. Oh, I've been. I've been doing YouTube. I've been doing tarot readings. On one day, I randomly just did a tarot reading on Tick Tock, and It was like 50, 000 views, and I went, I'm sorry, what's that about? So then I've been doing them every day for fun, and they only have, like 100 views or 200, but it's like, I don't know, it's a good little routine, so it keeps me grounded and. Yeah, so you can. I don't know, they're just kind of out there floating around. So if. If the one comes. I kind of set the intention of, like, if this comes across someone's feed, maybe they're meant to get a message from it, you know? So.

[Christine]

Nice. Is it called anything cool?

[Eva]

No, I don't even have a name for it. I just, like, did it and then started. Kept doing it, and I've done it almost every day for, like, eight days now, which is like, the longest I've ever done anything besides this podcast.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's awesome. I have you. Has One stuck out to you where you got a reading where you're like, oh, this feels real.

[Eva]

Yes. There was one so creepy yesterday that I did where I said, I keep getting Alaska. And it was like this intense Alaska energy. The first card I pull, the only card in the entire 80. Some Oracle deck or tarot deck that was like a folklore from Alaska. And I was like, what? So that was freaky. And then something fell over, like, during a reading. There's, like, some weird, like, ghosty stuff that's happening. And then during that same reading. Oh, I said, like, for some reason I'm being called to bring up my yearbook quote. And then I pulled up an oracle card and it was like, your high school yearbook or something. And I was like, this is getting.

[Christine]

What the hell?

[Eva]

It was getting weird.

[Christine]

But what was your yearbook quote?

[Eva]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I talk about it and the cynicism I've had and the relationship I've had to that quote in that video, but it was the meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit.

[Christine]

So, like, oh, wow.

[Eva]

And at the time, yours is so

[Christine]

much more, like, profound than mine was.

[Eva]

I know. And so I thought I was like. I was. Is just who I was at the time. I got so deep. But looking back, like, I recently thought about it and I felt so cynical and I was like. I was just like. Had no boundaries. I was just like, you know, oh, the meaning of life is like, give away everything you have and like, blah, blah. I was just feeling so weird and cynical about it. And for some reason I brought it up in the reading and then I, like, pulled the yearbook card and it was, like, just very affirming. I don't know. It was cool. So I think I'm kind of doing readings for myself. But then it, like, resonates with people who are going through similar experiences, if that makes sense.

[Christine]

Sure.

[Eva]

It's a very healing, you know, exchange.

[Christine]

What do you mean that. That it, like, just brought up Alaska. Don't tarot cards, like, kind of just have, like, vague.

[Eva]

Oh, I have a deck that's like folklore, folklore around the world. So it's like a tarot deck, but it's, like, themed of. So I'll just randomly. Like, I have, like, as, you know, like 40 decks and like, Eva and I have. And you have collected so many over travels.

[Christine]

Actually, I only have three.

[Eva]

Oh, okay. Well, you've gifted many, I guess I would say. And also I've received. And Eva has certainly gifted and received many and, like, so that one was, like, place. Yeah. Like, folklore from around the world. And I was like, oh, look at this woman and just be with the bugs. And then I, like, open and it's like Alaskan folklore. And I was like, well, that was weird. That's cool. And then it was just fun to see people in the comments. And then I put, like, a pinned comment or a description of, like, what I feel like is the. Are the, like, synchronicities for the day, like, just weird stuff. I don't know. It's just fun. I'm just walking around and.

[Christine]

That's awesome.

[Eva]

Yeah. I don't know if it feels, like, resonant to anyone. You go check it out. Otherwise.

[Christine]

Well, I would say. What the. I don't know how to totally segue into this, but I was thinking about while I was traveling, because I was trying to, like, document as much of it as possible. And I was thinking, like, I'm, like, really upset that I'm. I know in a few months I'm just going to forget everything I did. And so I made a little video of, like, things to remember of, like, if I ever travel there with things to do again. And so I was like, maybe I'll put that on YouTube. So maybe you're like, maybe like a

[Eva]

little, like, people, like, especially when it's like, travel stuff. Like, my brother will sometimes just turn on, like, best places in or underrated spots in whatever, and just, like, have it on.

[Christine]

Really?

[Eva]

I feel a lot like, yes, people love, like, that dude. And what I would do, how I got into this was I was, like, so into watching those videos that I was like, oh, I think I could, like, do. Do this in my own style. So I feel like the best thing to do is, like, watch those kind of videos and be like, oh, which one is like, something that I could kind of translate into my own? Because it's like, whatever you feel like, oh, that's really cool how they do that. I don't know. I feel like that is the way to figure it out. But, yeah, people eat shit like that up. Are you kidding me? That'd be awesome.

[Christine]

It's. It's. It would be more for me, I think, and that if people want to watch it, they can. But I think I'm just. It's just so. I have, like.

[Eva]

I think that's the key, though. Like, that's why I'm doing. I'm like, I'm not expecting. One video blew up and I was like, okay, fine. That's my sign from the universe. To keep doing it. And then, you know, the next ones have like 100 views. Fine. I don't really care. It's just like, oh, I like doing it. And I feel more.

[Christine]

Do you ever get a really good feeling that, like, you're like, this is gonna be a good, crazy deck. I can already tell this. Like, I'm gonna. Yeah, some good ones today.

[Eva]

Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And I just got my Reiki, like, second certification and I got like, my congratulations.

[Christine]

Did you tell you just about the first certification?

[Eva]

Yes. And so second one. I know, it's crazy. And then I went in for another.

[Christine]

Like, you don't sound proud enough of yourself.

[Eva]

No, I am. It's just a sort of a mind blowing because it feels a little bit like what's happening? You know, I'm like, what's happening? Everything's just like, whoa. But yeah, so I've been doing that. It's just kind of like I'm just kind of like doing it for fun. So I would recommend, though, just put stuff up. Who knows?

[Christine]

I am very proud of you for all your Reiki stuff because you were very much underselling it. But I know it takes a lot of work.

[Eva]

Well, thank you. It's been. It's been. It's been a blast.

[Christine]

Thing I wanted to tell you is I stayed one extra day that I really planned to. I really wanted to leave a day earlier, but I realized I was pretty close to a town that you and I would care quite a lot about. So I'm here to tell you all about my day in Scranton. No.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. I was like, galena, Sleepy Hollow. We've done that. Like Salem done that. New Orleans done that.

[Christine]

No, it's funny.

[Eva]

My Galena bracelet today.

[Christine]

I literally wear my Galena shirt yesterday.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. I had a weird feeling. You were. I was like, I'm gonna wear my Galena bracelet. I don't know why. I haven't worn it a long time.

[Christine]

God damn it. I love Galena.

[Eva]

Anyway, so sorry. Other city. Other city.

[Christine]

Yeah, I went to Scranton and I did a full office day, so I went everywhere, which I guess I'll talk about in the YouTube video. I don't.

[Eva]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought you said the happy hour. But yes, also the YouTube video. Yes, you should absolutely do that.

[Christine]

But I'll tell you, I went to all the spots. I went to. Poor Richards. I went to. Oh, this shirt is from Cooper Seafood.

[Eva]

Shut the fuck up.

[Christine]

Which I can tell you. I'll tell you that's. I get why in the show, Michael Scott is obsessed with Cooper Seafood. It's a very Michael Scott place. And then I went to Alfredo's Pizza Cafe. I went to the Chilies, obviously. Obviously. And I didn't know this. They opened that Chili's after, like, people from the office like, screamed about how there wasn't a Chili's in Scranton.

[Eva]

I feel like I'd heard that somewhere on Tick Tock.

[Christine]

But yeah, they wear different uniforms than anywhere else at Chili's. Like, theirs is the Dunder Mifflin logo and it says Chili's Scranton branch.

[Eva]

And then you wear those.

[Christine]

Yeah, and then they have crazy all over. Like, the decor of the Chili's is all office themed. So, like, they had. Holy.

[Eva]

Some franchiser was like, franchisee was like, I'm fucking nailing this, by the way.

[Christine]

Literally, they were. I think they took a survey and they were like, who are all the office fans here? All of you are in charge of designing this place. Because every wall there was like, all the way down to like, pamphlets for like a condo for sale. And it was. It described Michael Scott's condo. And then like, my gosh, Achilles not Kelly's Kevin's chili recipe framed on the wall. They had like.

[Eva]

Do they have a, like a stain? No, that would be in the office. Nevermind.

[Christine]

No, they. They had. They had a big poster that said, like, I feel God in those chilies. They had. Oh my God, what am I. What am I missing? Oh, they had a little life. There was a booth that was designed to look exactly like the one in the episode that Michael Scott takes, like, the client to.

[Eva]

Oh my gosh.

[Christine]

It's literally like you don't get to eat there. They had like props glued on the table so you could sit there and like, take a picture. Like you're them.

[Eva]

That's so good.

[Christine]

And then what else? I went to the actual Dunder Mifflin. I met their version of Pam, I think. But I even asked, I was like, what's your job? And she was like, it's the office. Like, we all, you know what we do. I was like, ah. Like, she, like, knew her.

[Eva]

Are you kidding me? They do that? I didn't know they do all this there.

[Christine]

Yeah, no, they really lean into it. Like, even the, the actual paper company there, they change their logo on one side of their building. So.

[Eva]

Actual paper company there? Yeah, I didn't realize that.

[Christine]

Which I think that it gets mentioned in the show at some point, but they. They one side of their building. They changed out their logo and everything. And it just says Dunder Mifflin. It's literally like the paper. And then their lobby, they have a bunch of Dunder Mifflin stuff so you can go in and take pictures, like, in their paper company lobby. And they were. They were the paper company that, I guess, John Krasinski filmed for the intro. And then they. They were the ones that got interviewed by the writers to know how to actually run a paper company. And. Jeez. And then what else? Oh, my gosh. There were murals everywhere. I have pictures. I'll put it all.

[Eva]

See, this is why we need the YouTube video you walk through.

[Christine]

I know. I already forgot it, but. Oh, and then I went there. That episode where Ryan, like, when he hurts his foot on the George Foreman girl and all he wants is pudding. And Ryan's like, oh, I got you pudding from a gas station in Carbondale. I went to a gas station in Carbondale, and they do sell pudding is very odd.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. I got you a pudding from a gas station in Carbondale is a very good line.

[Christine]

Yeah, I. Okay, that's. That's really. At the end. But I. I would have felt weird to not actually tell you about that. And then they. They sold Dundees at a store, and they. But they had Dundies. They were all replicas of the Dundees that people won on the show. So you could get any Dundee that anyone want.

[Eva]

White sneakers.

[Christine]

They had whitest sneakers. They had kind of a award. They had.

[Eva]

I want that.

[Christine]

I got Allison one. It's hottest in the office, which is what Ryan usually won.

[Eva]

Yeah, the one.

[Christine]

Right. But, yeah, it was. It was a good time, so. But it was so exciting to be there. And then it was shocking that, like, it really hurt my feelings. At one point, there was one of the waiters at the Chili's. He could tell it was a fan because I was, like, taking pictures of everything. And he came up and, like, was telling me a story about how, like, his parents, like, knew some of the people who worked on the show. And I was like, really? Like, you have any other. Like, do you remember anything, like, anything else from that time? And he was like, no, I wasn't born yet. And I went, oh. He was like, I'm just. I just remember because that's what my parents told me.

[Eva]

It's just my legacy.

[Christine]

Oh, God. Really made me feel so old. I was like, oh, because you look in my mind, I'm your age, you know, so.

[Eva]

Right. Like, we're the youths. Yeah.

[Christine]

Anyway, I went to Scranton, and that's the good reason Why I drink.

[Eva]

I love that for you. Congratulations. That sounds like fun because I knew

[Christine]

I would yap so much. I have a very short story for you today.

[Eva]

Oh, exciting. Bring it on.

[Christine]

Like. Like, not even half a page of notes.

[Eva]

Oh, wow.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

Because I knew I was coming in always. We always make up for it. Especially after, like, a three week break or whatever. Two week break.

[Christine]

I know. I just had so much to catch you up on. Like, I was in Scranton the whole time. I was like, oh, God, tell her about this.

[Eva]

I'm like, I can't even believe. I didn't even. Oh, man. I must have felt something in the air.

[Christine]

I.

[Eva]

The hooping stick. I certainly felt the threat from afar.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Eva]

I felt threatened really quickly with that.

[Christine]

I'm glad to hear.

[Eva]

Can be so hard to go from. Like, oh, I bought so many groceries, and then all of a sudden they're all either bad or gone, and I'm like, wait, now I don't have anything to eat? Oh, no. And I have a child. Help. Okay. So that is why I do love Hungry Root. Something new I discovered was Ithaca lemon dill hummus. And it was sent my way. And I thought, wow, sounds like I never would have picked this up at the store. But it's like they knew, and that's why I stayed with Hungry Root, because they know and they're. They. They build me this beautiful shopping cart. And, yeah, it's a genuinely helpful tool to make sure my fridge actually has, like, yummy, nutritious stuff and isn't just kind of like, accidentally all old.

[Christine]

And you made a great point, too, that Hungry Root gives you options you would have never thought of before. Like, I wouldn't think to get that, and I also. I wouldn't feel confident in myself on how to, like, prepare that without any help. So.

[Eva]

Well, I opened the container and put a chip in it, so it wasn't very hard.

[Christine]

It's incredible. Yeah, they just handle it and they go, you're gonna like this. Trust us. Boom. Food. Love that.

[Eva]

You're gonna love Hungry Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40 off your first order, plus get a free item in every box for life.

[Christine]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com drink. Code drink and get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice at For Life. So, okay, my story today is a. A little bit of a combo. It's two topics in one. It is the Buena Vista Cemetery and the Hunter Steakhouse. Whoa. You'll see how they end, how they make sense together. Okay. This is an Oceanside, California. This is near San Diego. And I wanted to do a cemetery. One of the things while I was on my travels, I went to a cemetery. So I was like, I'm in the cemetery mood. So this is in San Diego. And Oceanside, California, specifically, is built right above this lagoon area. It's very beautiful.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

It's so beautiful that some people wanted to rest there permanently. And then thus it became this cemetery where, I guess people could overlook the lagoon. And.

[Eva]

I see. I thought you were gonna say they jumped off of it. Oh. Oh. So that's. I'm glad we went different directions with that. I'm sorry. Yep. So good things. Good things.

[Christine]

No. So a cemetery was built there, and it was a very quick turnaround. This cemetery really only existed for, like, maybe 30 years. So it was from 18.

[Eva]

They were like, we're gonna put our house here, not a cemetery.

[Christine]

I think that's kind of how people immediately.

[Eva]

They want the land. Why do dead people get to look out at the ocean? I'm still alive.

[Christine]

Well, it's funny that you mentioned that, because wasn't it, like, the 1880s? I think where. I don't know what the right phrasing is, Architects or designers or something, they. The intention of cemeteries for a while was to be public parks. So that way you could, like, you could go visit your family, but it was still like a welcoming place. That way, you never really felt like your family was isolated somewhere. You could still enjoy them and make

[Eva]

family time, which makes sense for, like, a beautiful view of vista.

[Christine]

I. Yeah, in my mind, it makes sense. Like, you would put a cemetery next to a lagoon if you think people would want to be there and then.

[Eva]

Absolutely. And to come and pay respects. And so. Yeah, that makes it actually. It makes total sense. Yeah.

[Christine]

Well, we don't think.

[Eva]

Well, not to the. To the. Maybe to the city planners, but not to the. To the big wigs.

[Christine]

Well, so it was built in 1888. I don't actually know when it was built. That was the first burial we know of. So I'm assuming the cemetery.

[Eva]

They were just waiting before that.

[Christine]

Maybe it was just like. It was just like dirt and someone buried it. And then they were like, oh, that's just one hole.

[Eva]

They're like, we're gonna.

[Christine]

Let's any day bodies, and then it'll be a cemetery.

[Eva]

Yeah, true.

[Christine]

And it. Only. The final burial we know of was in 1916. So that's what, 20.

[Eva]

It wasn't very long.

[Christine]

22 plus 16.

[Eva]

Very short period of time.

[Christine]

Yeah. Not even 40 years. Okay, so the cemetery was here. It was called the Buena Vista Cemetery because it overlooked the Buena Vista Lagoon. And yeah, the last burial was 1916. But by 1929, which is like basically 15 years later. Ish. It was. The area was completely abandoned. Oh, the cemetery was overgrown, I guess, because since it. Since its beginning, there was never like a caretaker. And so after 40 years.

[Eva]

Right. And if nobody else is getting buried there, it's like people start. Stop visiting and.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. Or I would even think the. If they never had a caretaker and it started in 1888. By 1929, it's just like, oh, true. Just a mess.

[Eva]

And you don't want to even know it's there.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. So who knows? Maybe if they employed people to like, be like maintenance workers there, it would have stayed open longer. But anyway, so it was abandoned by 1929. At that same time, the cemetery or the road that it was on was being redeveloped. And so because of this, they were going to be shifting things around on. On the land.

[Eva]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

A bunch of bodies were buried.

[Eva]

Yeah. Good start.

[Christine]

So at this point, just in 1929, as they're doing this first round of redevelopment, around, like 10 different bodies were dug up and at least moved to a new cemetery. Because one of the other reasons that this place was abandoned was because a whole new, bigger, better cemetery had opened up.

[Eva]

Sure.

[Christine]

So they find around 10 bodies. A different source has said different numbers. So I'm sticking with around 10. They dug these bodies up and moved them to a cemetery. And since the cemetery had been abandoned for like 15 years, the bodies, I guess technically were also abandoned. So I'm unsure if there were families who were like, notified. But it also seems that nobody complained either. No one, like, wrote in and said, where the hell are the bodies that we buried?

[Eva]

Right. I guess nobody was visiting anyway, so maybe they.

[Christine]

Right.

[Eva]

Didn't. Oh, okay.

[Christine]

So. And I don't think they had like, plot info on the bodies. They were just kind of. I think they didn't even know what they would find. They just kind of started digging. And if they found a body, they were like, okay, let's.

[Eva]

There weren't even like, grave. Like grave stones, head headstones.

[Christine]

I don't think so. Because one of the mysteries of the cemetery was we don't know how many bodies. To this day, we don't know how many bodies were on the land.

[Eva]

Goodness. Okay.

[Christine]

And some had headstones. There was actually like A whole controversy somewhere in, like, the 70s, I think, where this guy was like, it's clearly only this many bodies that are here, but he was really just counting the headstones that existed and not any of the, like, random graves that didn't have.

[Eva]

Oh, wow, okay, okay.

[Christine]

So anyway, because they didn't have plot information, I think they were like, let's just hope for the best and hope we don't hit any bodies. And then they hit a few and then had to dig them out and move them. That was the first time that this happened. But then in the 1950s, the property was sold to a teacher who I love her mind. She bought the land strategically to keep her own house's view of the lagoon.

[Eva]

She was like, somebody would be like, I need to get on this. Yeah.

[Christine]

She was like, if I buy this land, then nobody else can touch it, and therefore, like, a skyscraper won't show up in the way of my view. Love her. Love her. But very quickly, she sold to a developer, lol. Who was going to use it for commercial property anyway. So she had a plan and then did not stick with it. So by the 1960s, 1970s, now freeways are starting to get built all over the place. And specifically in this area was going to be the five. And so a ramp was going to be built right over this land. That's what they decided to do with this. With this property. So even though in the 1920s, they accidentally hit a few bodies and then dug them up and buried them at the new cemetery, this is now the second time where there's going to be construction in the area. And in the zoning with where the cemetery is, they end up digging up 17 more bodies.

[Eva]

Oh, more. Oh, more. Oh, my goodness. Okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. So now we're at like 27ish.

[Eva]

Jeez.

[Christine]

During this time, the gravestones themselves. This is like the most fucked up part to me, and I don't know why, but it just feels like. Feels like the last personal thing that any of these bodies ever got to, like, lay claim to the gravestones. Since they dug the bodies up and there was no reason for the gravestone anymore, they repurposed them and used them as parts of the highway ramp.

[Eva]

Oh, God. That does feel.

[Christine]

Just feels dirty.

[Eva]

It does. It feels so wrong. It's so disrespectful.

[Christine]

It's like, so now if you're driving on the 5in. In Oceanside, you're like, am I driving on. On a gravestone? For just. Sure. You are rolling over it.

[Eva]

That's just like, of all Things, a freeway. It's like. Okay, like, I understand if you want. If there were other reasons to just. I. Oh. It just feels a little.

[Christine]

I guess, like, in the world of, like, if we're thinking truly, like, there's a bunch of shitty businessmen, they're like, well, it's free concrete. Like, I mean.

[Eva]

Yeah, I guess it just feels weirdly like, oh, you're gonna get haunted, dude.

[Christine]

I feel like there should be a story somewhere of, like, this haunted section of the five, and it's because it's built out of gravestones. You know how, like, every hotel. Well, we're built out of limestone, so we must be haunted. I'm like, this is made out of graves, babe. Oh, my God. The Orkin Man. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. The worst timing of his life.

[Eva]

Tell him to go away.

[Christine]

Is he waiting for me? He did ring the doorbell.

[Eva]

Hide. It was so worth it for that. For the jump scare. It was so worth it every second.

[Christine]

That really was the perfect timing, too. I.

[Eva]

My God, you really got. Me too. Like, I got. I got jumpy. Wow. I had to. Wow. I had to take a breath after that. That was a good jump scare for all of us to kind of wake back up.

[Christine]

I think the last word I said was graves. Like, empty graves. Yeah.

[Eva]

And then you looked to the side and, like, jumped out of your skin. Oh, my God. Okay.

[Christine]

It's especially because the doorbell is right next to me, so they have to lunge this way. Yeah.

[Eva]

It does always appear as though you're, like, recoiling.

[Christine]

Okay, so I'm. I'm more than halfway done with those already, so. Okay, so that was the second time that we had bodies being discovered and 17 more.

[Eva]

Oh, yeah, you said 17 more bodies. That's what happened. And then, like, the jump scare.

[Christine]

Okay, so there's already. Now we're at about, like, 30 bodies. And so, geez, as far as we know, everything's good for, like, the next 20 years. And then by 1991, Texaco, they're soil testing in the area. And I don't know how. How deep you're digging the soil to test it, but they've accidentally came across, like, five more bodies.

[Eva]

I mean, I guess you would. You're testing the soil. You gotta go deep down in there.

[Christine]

I wonder if they tested it and they were like. It says body remains are here. And then they, like, had. They're, like, digging.

[Eva]

There must be oil here. And it's like, no, just grandma's pearls, but it just feels ye. Yeah, Texaco Good job.

[Christine]

So they ended up finding five or six more bodies. And during the most recent construction, which I'm not. I don't even know if this is the most recent construction, because it Sounds like in 2020, they found even more. But somewhere between 1991 and 2020, they were now grading the land, which I did not know what that meant. That means when the machines are intentionally creating slopes so that way rain will pour away from your house. You're saying that like a construction worker. Like, you know what the I'm saying?

[Eva]

Yeah, City planner. What can I say? I watched parks and Rec, too. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Okay, so for people who don't watch Parks and Rec, they were digging slopes.

[Eva]

I'm just kidding. I know. I don't know. I just kind of.

[Christine]

You said. You said huh so confidently.

[Eva]

I was like, guesstimated what. What it must mean. And you. I seem to be right, so I just went with it.

[Christine]

Your confidence made me believe that you

[Eva]

really smart, so it showed.

[Christine]

Yeah. The they. During the most recent construction or development or whatever, they were grading the soil. They found even more bodies. And at one point. This is like, I can't imagine being the person in charge of this, like, construction equipment. You would know the name since you're so smart.

[Eva]

First of all.

[Christine]

Shut up.

[Eva]

You're right. I'll tell you in a minute.

[Christine]

But some. One of them was driving one of the big machines, and they accidentally struck two coffins, and bones started, like, spilling.

[Eva]

That's not me on the first day of the job. That's me on the first day of the job.

[Christine]

At, like, whatever you do, don't hit this section. Literally. I just.

[Eva]

Oops, I went too far. And then I accidentally tumbled bones all across the works. The workspace. This is insane. That's insane. Imagine that's your job. You're just like, I'm just grading the land, as always with my big machine, and it's like, bones sprout out.

[Christine]

You have to. I. I mean, I wouldn't hope to desecrate at. Desecrate any graves, especially any further. More graves than.

[Eva]

They're already saying that more people. More people should be open about that. Thank you.

[Christine]

Well, I'm saying that because part of me, in a morbid way, would be like, if this place, like, three times in a row now has had history of like, yeah. Digging up bodies. I'm kind of wondering if I'm gonna, like, like, what's the jackpot in this situation?

[Eva]

Am I gonna hit a body in the industry? You'd already it already have a name built for itself, because anyone doing development in that area finds a body, it seems. So it's like, yeah, you kind of know what you're getting into, but, like, to have the bones spill about is, like, so startling.

[Christine]

I'm not saying I would want that to happen, but I would be disappointed if that plate had a place, had a history of it, and we walked away without, like, an interesting story.

[Eva]

What I would be disappointed in is if that was my. The day before, my first day on the job, you know. Yeah. The action. I was. My days. I was the orientation day, and I missed it. And. Oh, my gosh, I would be so disappointed. But I would want all the details.

[Christine]

Yeah, Yeah. I want. I want to be involved. Zero percent. But I do want to be, like, working that day and hear about it

[Eva]

just, like, in the wings.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I want. Yeah.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I don't want to be feeling guilty about anything, but I do it on it. Yeah.

[Eva]

And I want to be a hold space for all the trauma, but I just want to be part of the, like, watch crew in the back.

[Christine]

I definitely want to be the person, like, I want to be, like, the town crier of the construction crew, where I go, oh, my God, we found you.

[Eva]

And I would be so annoying. We'd be like, you guys. Did you guys hear? Oh, my God. And then you and I would fight each other, and we'd be like. We'd work this turn up into, like, a frenzy. It would be insane.

[Christine]

And I wouldn't even be useful that day on. On the set. I wouldn't even be useful that day.

[Eva]

We would turn it into a set because we would immediately create content out of it. Because we're insane.

[Christine]

That's what I'm saying. I'd immediately start, like, looking up the

[Eva]

names and trying to find out unhinged about it immediately.

[Christine]

So. But, you know, obviously, I don't think they handled it. Let's put this way, even though I. I feel a little hesitant about even my own response on what I would do, where I would just want to know all the information. These people handled it worse because.

[Eva]

Oh, how.

[Christine]

I wouldn't say the construction crew are to blame at all. I think there's some project manager who needs to reevaluate his. His table things because basically they hit these two bodies. And to make his deadline on the project, he literally had workers just take the bones and put them in burlap sacks and then told the crew to keep working.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. And. And these People. I mean, that. That's traumatizing in and of itself to have to be doing that to pick

[Christine]

up bones and put them in, like, right, Literally.

[Eva]

And then hide them from orders of your boss. What the.

[Christine]

And I. I saw in one source, it said that, like, they literally called the city and that's what the city wanted to do to also keep the

[Eva]

project on the city. Give me.

[Christine]

Give me a break. Call that mayor is corrupt.

[Eva]

I'll tell you, it's a dog. Probably like the one you like so much. It's probably like, yeah, dig up all the bones. Give them to me.

[Christine]

Honestly, that would be Mayor max's best day 100. That's a up thing to say. But I. But, like, it is funny also dogs and bones. Okay, so you guys get it? Do you get it? Please, God. Because otherwise I feel like I'm really making a bad joke. Okay, but no, that, like, is that not so up that he was just like, all right, put him in a bag.

[Eva]

We're done in a burlap. Wait, what year was that, too?

[Christine]

That. I don't know. It's between the 90s and 2020.

[Eva]

Yeah, like what? Burlap sack? What are you doing? This is disturbing.

[Christine]

Yeah, we couldn't put them at least in like. Like Tupperware or something where we could preserve them and bring them somewhere.

[Eva]

Trunk or something. Yeah, I don't know.

[Christine]

Like, something airtight. So that way you can, like, find out something to do with them later.

[Eva]

I guess that. I guess he probably just didn't want anyone to know. And that's the point. Right? Like, he didn't want it to halt construction or whatever. Well, whistleblower. Because I. Not on purpose. I would just accidentally blab too much.

[Christine]

I wouldn't be able to shut the up about that. I'd be like, can you believe this happened?

[Eva]

And then they'd be like, what happened? I'd be like, I didn't. It wasn't me. Nothing at all. Ask him. Ask him.

[Christine]

Well, so. But then even more bodies were found, and I guess the construction crew, bless them, they were afraid that these bodies were all just going to get put in burlap sacks and neglected. And so they literally took the construction equipment themselves and reburied the bodies.

[Eva]

Wow. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[Christine]

Good for them.

[Eva]

I bet you there was one guy who's, like, being an about it.

[Christine]

Sure.

[Eva]

Like, oh, no, I'm just the. Like, he had to, like, reevaluate, too.

[Christine]

I'm sure he was like, if everyone else is feeling this way, like, I really? Actually something's wrong with me.

[Eva]

Yeah, he was probably like, he probably made a joke about how Mayor Max would have loved this and then.

[Christine]

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. That was a joint effort, Christina.

[Eva]

You know it. Trust me. I literally set you up for that one. That's. We'd be in this.

[Christine]

I mean it's very.

[Eva]

We'd be going, we'd be like laughing and going, oh cool, it's too soon. Yeah, sorry.

[Christine]

It's, it's a. For sure a morbid joke. But I mean, what else are you gonna do when you're digging and burying and traumatized?

[Eva]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Sometimes you gotta laugh through the pain. So. Yeah, the construction team I guess handled it or I don't know how many. Maybe it wasn't all them, maybe it was just some of them. But around 10 bodies in total were found during this event. So that makes like 12 more bodies on top of the almost 30 bodies.

[Eva]

Okay. You know, I like have not ever thought about it this way, but some things aren't meant to be transparent like swimsuits. But when it comes to like a bill, like a, say a phone bill. Yeah. It's like transparency is a word they've never heard of and suddenly there are these fees and there are these like little add ons and like they're like wait, we, you already knew about that. But no, no, no, no, we're done with that. Because now Mint Mobile is here with high speed data and reliable coverage on the T Mobile 5G network. And right now all plans are 15 DOL, even unlimited.

[Christine]

Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with Premium Wireless for 15amonth. And you're right. I'm so sick. They, they, they trick you with all these little like, oh, if you do this now, then you get later or, or here's this discount or here's this blah blah blah. And you, you sign up for this and you get that. And mobile doesn't do that.

[Eva]

Is this your autograph? And you go, I guess so. I don't know.

[Christine]

Net Mobile doesn't mess around. All their plans come with high speed data and unlimited talking text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. And you can even bring your current phone and your number over, which I love.

[Eva]

To get your new wireless Plan for just 15 bucks a month go to mintmobile.com ATWD that's mintmobile.com ATWD cut your

[Christine]

wireless bill to 15 bucks a [e-mail] ATWD that's it. There is no catch.

[Eva]

Upfront payment of 45 for 3 months, 90 for 6 months or 180 for 12 months. Plan required 15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot capable. Device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. Siemen Mobile Documents.

[Christine]

Com. Now we get to 2020 and I don't know any information more than the fact that three more bodies are discovered around this time.

[Eva]

Oh my word.

[Christine]

And I. I really don't know how old those bodies would be anything like that. It was actually an editor's note from a previous news article where they went. The. The body count has climbed.

[Eva]

They were like updated information. Oh my God.

[Christine]

Yes. So now the number currently stands at around 50 to 52.

[Eva]

Jesus. And they thought like maybe 10 at first and I think that's everyone. Wow.

[Christine]

And I. I mean, I guess there were gravestones there. So it wasn't technically a potter's field. There were people who wanted to be

[Eva]

identified, but maybe they had like family plots, you know, where it was. Like you don't necessarily know how many people in a family were buried in a certain name or.

[Christine]

No clue.

[Eva]

I don't know. I don't.

[Christine]

I don't know. Before I stop talking about the cemetery though, I want to tell you the creepiest part for sure is that in the 70s when they were doing their bout of construction and they found all these bodies. What's so freaking eerie about this? And remember these, these bodies, as far as we know, the latest one was buried in 1916.

[Eva]

Right?

[Christine]

So these bodies were buried between the 1880s and 1916. In the 70s when they were going through this redevelopment and, and taking the bodies out. The bodies that were being discovered, despite them being decades old, they were in quote, perfect condition. The bodies, their clothing, and even a flower that one body was holding, one man was holding a flower in his coffin. Showed no signs of decay, little to no signs of decay. The flower still had its color like it was.

[Eva]

What the fuck? Okay, is this. I can't even press a dandelion over here. And they're just like preserving roses under. In a coffin. I mean, that's Fallout Boy lyric. Write that down, please. Maybe it says salty sea air is so good for you.

[Christine]

Well, so their theory is that there was something in the soil. Especially in 91 testing that soil. Yeah, I mean maybe in. I would imagine I would be on the soil testing team. One way to pitch it to Me

[Eva]

also imagine you would be on the soil testing team. What?

[Christine]

I think I would immediately. It would be a no for me if I was. If I'd volunteer to be part of the soil testing team. But if someone pitched it as no, no. 20 years ago, they started finding like bodies that were buried 100 years ago and they were in perfect condition, all of a sudden I'd be a soil genius and I'd be doing anything to get.

[Eva]

Oh yeah, you'd be like, I've actually overnight read every book and Reddit posts that ever existed about this and suddenly I accidentally became the expert. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yes, 100. But no, I mean, they were, they were pulling bodies out. There was one man who I guess, like, especially if they're that, that in that pristine condition, you could probably identify them really well.

[Eva]

Oh, true. Oh, and that's. Oh. Oh yeah, that's disturbing.

[Christine]

But then I also wonder, like, I don't know how spread out the land was that was getting developed on, because if some of these bodies were in perfect condition, but other ones were like literally bones falling apart, then the soil is either completely different or one of these stories is not true.

[Eva]

Or maybe it's just 50 years later, you know, I mean, 70s, that's a 50 year span. And then 70 to 20, 20 is 50 years. So maybe it just.

[Christine]

That's a good point.

[Eva]

Over time, I don't know. But I mean, it's still weird.

[Christine]

Still weird.

[Eva]

It's still very weird. But maybe it took longer to get to the skeletal. Oh, I don't know.

[Christine]

I don't know. It's. And I also, I would like to ask, like, I don't have the answer in front of me, but I would love to know what the deteriorating time span is of clothing. Like, if I was buried in a tux, how long until the tuxes?

[Eva]

I promise you, you can just google that real quick then find out.

[Christine]

Well, because I'd like to. I, If I'm. Am I just bones and clothes for a while?

[Eva]

Yeah, if you're wearing polyester. But if you're wearing a wool, that's probably going to go right with you.

[Christine]

What about a linen or a hemp? I feel like hemp is.

[Eva]

Yeah, that'll go right with you too. That's more biodegradable.

[Christine]

I would say, realistically, if I am getting buried, period, it would should be in tie dye. I want that on the record.

[Eva]

Yeah, that'll never decay.

[Christine]

So if I, if, if I'm ever buried and then someone finds me and I'm not in tie Dye. I'm telling you, my last. My last wish is to then put tie dye on the skeleton.

[Eva]

So you would say, like, foul play. And I was like, I'm on the case. But no, you just want to change shirt and change your shirt. No, not it.

[Christine]

I've touched your skeleton. You wouldn't touch my skeleton.

[Eva]

No, touch your. You would touch my skeleton, you freak.

[Christine]

If it were to help you.

[Eva]

Yeah, well, how would that help me? Don't touch my skeleton. What if you weren't touching my sk.

[Christine]

What if you weren't in tie dye and that was your last request? You wouldn't put tied. You wouldn't at least drape it on me. I'm naked. You're not going to put anything on my naked skeleton. That's so up. No, no. I don't even want to hear it. No. Now I'm not.

[Eva]

I'm all about consent.

[Christine]

I consent to putting Kaidi on my skeleton. What's wrong with you? So now you're not.

[Eva]

I.

[Christine]

How about this? I don't consent to you not putting tie dye on my skeleton, so you better do it.

[Eva]

I don't consent to this collaboration. Thank you.

[Christine]

It's like kind of fucked up. You don't want me to like to rest easy, but okay, whatever.

[Eva]

I mean, not at my look.

[Christine]

How about this? What if the skeleton is just bones? It's not like there's like anything rotting anymore. It's just bones.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. Well, I hadn't thought of like, you're

[Christine]

alone alive long enough that I have a skeleton.

[Eva]

Thought of like it was still smelling like something. That makes it like.

[Christine]

No. If I'm just like a cartoon skeleton and there's no.

[Eva]

That's what I was imagining in the first place, that I was already freaked out. And then you added like rotting flesh to the picture and it didn't help situation.

[Christine]

I don't know how to come back from this. I think I was.

[Eva]

Would just be afraid. Like, you know, sometimes I touch a tree and I'm like, oh, it's talking to me. So I think I just.

[Christine]

Oh, I'm weird. Oh, okay. I would be more worried about like a spider web in your eyeball or something. You know what I mean? That'd be crazy. Like a little cockroach comes out.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. You're making it like I never want to touch anyone's skeleton and you're making it worse.

[Christine]

I'm thinking about it in terms of cartoons where like, like there's like little buggies and stuff in a spot.

[Eva]

Well, I'M thinking about it in terms of a human skeleton.

[Christine]

Hmm, interesting. Okay, well, I'll ask skeleton.

[Eva]

I'm not dressing your naked skeleton. And I'm putting that out on the record right now. If someone cancel me try. Go ahead, do it.

[Christine]

I don't care if someone digs up my body one day and there is not tie dye. You know what to do.

[Eva]

Don't come for me.

[Christine]

First you write an evil letter to Christine saying no. Then you have a tie dye party around my grave.

[Eva]

And it's my fault that you wore tie dye hems into your grave and it dissolved immediately.

[Christine]

That's a great point. Okay, first you have to find the toughest material possible and find out that

[Eva]

the, like, whatever they make the soil. Texaco, whatever Texaco put in the soil over the cemetery, just weave that into the fabric.

[Christine]

Well, okay, so these two people, I'm assuming one was in a suit. He's the one holding the flower. And then there was a woman who had still very vibrant red hair and she was dressed in all black and it was vintage clothing from the, like 1880s. So, like, she was one of the first bodies there and looked basically alive. Would you rather touch that body or just. Just bones. If I look like me, but that's

[Eva]

what I'll say if I'm coming back up. No, I think it's the fact that it's you. Like, I would touch another. I know. No, I think I would touch because I would feel like, oh, that's invasive. Like I'm touching through your whole body.

[Christine]

I'm literally begging for it. But like,

[Eva]

oh, my God, I don't know. It's now I'm reevalu everything.

[Christine]

Just know that if. If, like, you were ever in a situation where you had to, even if you didn't want to know that I'm giggling the whole time.

[Eva]

Like, know that you're making. And you're putting a worm in your own eyes to scare me. You're like, you're trying to make it so much worse.

[Christine]

No, I.

[Eva]

If I really, truly had to, yes, I would touch your skeleton, but I don't want to. I really don't want to.

[Christine]

I do know what you mean, though. It's kind of like how, like, it was known to be there.

[Eva]

Yeah, it feels like more fake. Like I'm like, oh, I'll touch a skeleton. But it's like, oh, I don't know who that was. And I've like, sever ties. But if I did. Yeah, your skeleton. I'm like, ah, no, I know what

[Christine]

you mean it's just weird.

[Eva]

It feels. It feels invasive.

[Christine]

No, I know what you mean. Because I would also like, if I hopefully not like, saw like a dead body, if I didn't have an emotional attachment to it, it'd be a lot easier to walk away from that versus exactly. That's.

[Eva]

Yeah, it feels like a little more like too real. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it doesn't feel real because it's. You've invented a cartoon scenario. But, you know, in the case, I do have to redress your naked skeleton. I'll reconsider. I'll think about it.

[Christine]

And I think you could pay someone else to do it. I just need you to be in charge of it.

[Eva]

Oh, I thought it was like, dare you.

[Christine]

Like, I don't need you to hold me while you dress me.

[Eva]

I thought like, it was just like to touch the bones and that was the whole thing. Okay, I know. I can handle it. I can handle it. I'll do a whole ceremony. I will set up an entire ceremony. You know that, I promise.

[Christine]

Okay, that's fine. Yeah. Just afford the best, that's all.

[Eva]

At least I don't have to touch your. Your rotting corpse. Then someone else can handle it.

[Christine]

And if you had to do it with your own hands, you're allowed to say the whole time, I won't be.

[Eva]

Okay, okay. As long as you're not going to be offended from the beyond.

[Christine]

No, no, I would be like, I get it, that's crazy. But like, this will be like, so appreciate it.

[Eva]

Okay, good, good. Then. Then I can then counts. That's fine, I can agree to that then.

[Christine]

Sick. Okay, so now to round this out, this is where I tell you so as we know it, there's about 50 bodies that were once buried here. And one of them being this randomly well preserved woman in a black vintage outfit. She was one of the bodies that the construction workers didn't want anyone messing with and so they re buried her down by the loop.

[Eva]

Yeah, they had good intuition because, you know, you don't mess with that. Like, you don't make her into the highway. Oh, a bad thing would happen if you turn her into a freeway, my friend.

[Christine]

She'd be. She's like, I somehow like, beat the odds and still look this damn good a whole century later.

[Eva]

And you're gonna make me a road myself? And you built a fucking freeway ramp. I can't.

[Christine]

Honestly. Maybe they like had just as shitty values as they're like their project manager. And they were willing to, like, just toss the bodies in a burlap sack. But then they saw they were, like, oddly preserved, and they were like. This feels like a curse if we don't.

[Eva]

The universe was like, actually, it's not even worth it. You gotta be careful here.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, okay, so 50 bodies are. Were once buried here. Probably more still exists, and they just haven't hit, you know, broken ground yet. But not only were they buried here, but all, most, if not all, were all unceremoniously relocated without any family consent, without any knowledge of it. And then on the property, they built the Hungry Hunter Steakhouse, which is now as the Hunter Steakhouse.

[Eva]

Okay. Okay. Interesting.

[Christine]

And so this is known as a very haunted restaurant in.

[Eva]

Oh, I can apparently imagine.

[Christine]

It does have a plaque on the building commemorating the bodies that were found on the property. So at least we're acknowledging it. But that's, like, the only proof anywhere of us acknowledging it.

[Eva]

I mean, what are you gonna do?

[Christine]

Nothing, I guess.

[Eva]

Put a plaque up.

[Christine]

So most of the activities on the second floor, but. But throughout all the building, the doors slam open and shut by themselves. People hear loud boots walking around. Objects move. There are power surges where, like, lights are flickering and the electricity goes out for no reason. Chandeliers, which I spelled as Chandlers.

[Eva]

Oh, fun.

[Christine]

Chandeliers swing on their own. There are windows upstairs that, first of all have never been opened. And people constantly feel drawn to stairs. Air out of.

[Eva]

Ew.

[Christine]

Hate that. Things throw themselves across the shelves. Wine bottles rearrange themselves. The fridge will lock itself shut. This one's for you. People say if they see a cowboy sitting at the end of the bar.

[Eva]

Well, well, well, well, well, well.

[Christine]

I know where you're sitting.

[Eva]

Fancy meeting you here at this haunted steakhouse by the sea.

[Christine]

Like, if it had to be haunted, it had to be you.

[Eva]

And then the bar daughter's like, she's been waiting here every day for six years for somebody. For somebody interested here, she's just desperate. She's unwell.

[Christine]

Apparitions are seen moving around by the fireplace. So that can be a full body. That could be a face coming out of, like, the chimney area.

[Eva]

Oh, my gosh.

[Christine]

There are, like, vague mists that come out. But there's something about the fireplace.

[Eva]

It feels like a portal, you know, like, that gives very portal energy. The fact that, like, we different shapes and things are coming out of the fireplace, of all things.

[Christine]

Exactly right. That is what one of the sources talked about.

[Eva]

Oh, excellent.

[Christine]

A woman is seen in a storage area as well as near the stairs. And get this. She is seen in all black and 1800s vintage clothing.

[Eva]

About to ask. Holy.

[Christine]

So I don't know if it is for sure the same woman that they

[Eva]

found or there's just multiple. Right? It could. Very, very good point.

[Christine]

It could be any other woman in vintage black clothing. But I mean, that would make it fun. But I would say also, like, this is the most recognizable ghost. You have an opportunity to like, compare and contrast with, like, if her. How did no one take a picture in the 70s of this perfectly preserved corpse?

[Eva]

You know, somebody did, and it's in someone's grandpa's photo box in the attic. You gotta go look, folks. That's why you gotta be nosy. Please, just for me.

[Christine]

I'm not being nosy. I just do it for me. Oh, my God, I'll never stop being nosy.

[Eva]

There's probably a construction worker grandpa who took a photo and they were like, don't leak this anywhere. And they just put it in there. Their stuff.

[Christine]

Yeah, something like that. It had to. And. But I wish that existed purely for science. So that way we had something to compare this woman to so we would know if it was the same woman.

[Eva]

I want to know for science.

[Christine]

Everyone start digging in your grandpa's addicts immediately, please.

[Eva]

So immediately.

[Christine]

People also claim to feel a hostile male presence who has given intelligent EVP responses. One of them was, get out. Yikes.

[Eva]

Very intelligent.

[Christine]

Very intelligent. People also hear banging from the attic. The alarm system goes off at night by itself. Women hear someone whistling at. At them, and they also feel something touching them and playing with their hair. The credit card machine. I know. I can't stand it.

[Eva]

It gives me like heebie jeebies.

[Christine]

Like, like more or less than playing with my skeleton.

[Eva]

Literally. As you could tell, nothing gives me more heebie jeebies than the idea of playing with your skeleton. Thank you.

[Christine]

Okay, you know what freaks me out? Remember earlier when you said your brother gets you hot and bothered?

[Eva]

First of all, you are misquoting me slander. Second of all, that was off the record.

[Christine]

That was before we started recording. Thank God.

[Eva]

Off the record. No, I said that. And then I said, oh, my God, that's not what I meant. I meant I'm hot, I'm annoyed, and it really bothers you.

[Christine]

Bothered. And it got like, warm because you're

[Eva]

so that the hard way. In about sophomore year of college. And it was incredibly embarrassing. Okay? And I remember saying. I remember the moment I found out. I don't even remember what happened, what I said, but I said, hot and bothered. And somebody in the room had to be like, christine, that's awful. Yeah, it was. And I was talking about something that was not meant. Shouldn't have been in that context, like

[Christine]

about your brother again or what?

[Eva]

I mean, like, maybe, but it was probably more like we were in class and they were like that. You can't say that. We're in a class and that's a professor. And that's like, you can't say that.

[Christine]

I just watched a below deck episode where the. I think she was French, but she clearly spoke another language before English. And she was trying to say, I'm excited about something thing. And like, oh, I'm excited to, like, be the bartender this time around. And she, like, told her the person in charge of her. She's like, oh, I'm really horny about this.

[Eva]

Like, that's the vibe. It's like, is that not the phrase? You know, like, it feels very French.

[Christine]

The other person was like, nope, wrong word.

[Eva]

Wrong word. Start over.

[Christine]

No. To defend Christine, she said, God, he just gets me. So no. Hey, how did you phrase it? At the end, you ended it with. Oh, nope, I didn't mean to. Like that.

[Eva]

Okay. It wasn't even. I said. I. I said, I have this other microphone here and I was using the wrong one.

[Christine]

That's right. That's right.

[Eva]

It doesn't matter. The. I did not.

[Christine]

I. As I said it, trying to quote you. I knew it was off. I knew it was off, but it got me going. It really made my day to.

[Eva]

Yeah, I knew. Oh, man, I should have known. I should have known it would come back.

[Christine]

It's okay. It was very funny. I kind of wish it had been recorded, so it needed to be said here.

[Eva]

I can't believe it.

[Christine]

Okay, so then the last thing I'm going to say is that apparently the credit card machine at this place go nuts and, like, just freaks out by itself. People hear their names being called all the time when they're alone in the building. And then there's a photo I want to show you, which is one of the servers.

[Eva]

Show me. Okay, you better tell me what it is.

[Christine]

I'm going to. I'm going to.

[Eva]

So afraid of any photographic evidence of this place.

[Christine]

I will say I have earned your skepticism. So thank you. It's a. It said server, but it feels like this is someone who, like, was actually a customer here. Maybe both. There's a picture of a woman at the table and there's a figure behind her, but nobody was behind her when the picture was Taken. So I'm sending you that picture right now. It's like, a straight up person, bro.

[Eva]

It's like, absolutely not for that. No, absolutely not even a little bit for any of this. I'd rather not. I mean, that looks like great out. Matilda accidentally got out of her bed in the middle of the night and, like, stumbled into the parlor where we're playing a card game, and everyone's like, oh, that's just came back to bed.

[Christine]

It really does look like. Like she looks like they're in, like. Like in a gown. Like a. Like a. Like a nightmare.

[Eva]

She also looks like she's gonna stab me. I'm so afraid of her. Holy.

[Christine]

It does look like right before, like, in a horror movie where the camera would, like, focus in on the other person. It's just a blurry figure standing, and

[Eva]

the person at the table is just having a great old time with an A1 and a long Island Iced Tea.

[Christine]

She has no idea.

[Eva]

No idea.

[Christine]

Anyway, so that is the Buena Vista Cemetery and the Hunter Steakhouse.

[Eva]

That was terrifying. Why am I so scared of that?

[Christine]

I don't know. I don't know if I think you're right. That it had some sort of, like. I don't know why it felt personal for some reason.

[Eva]

Feels a little, like, weird and like, I. I wonder what's going on with these people that are. And there's probably more people down there.

[Christine]

Well, the plaque even says that there's, like, there's probably others that reside right here.

[Eva]

The plaque says that.

[Christine]

Holy.

[Eva]

There's probably other ones.

[Christine]

There's probably other ones. I mean, if you accidentally stump. There was a quote from, like, Captain Marvel, which, Like, even though that movie came out much later after a bunch of other superhero movies, it was the prequel. Like, it was a prequel that was filmed.

[Eva]

Right.

[Christine]

You know, I mean, and what you find out is that when they discovered Captain Marvel, they said, like, there's got to be others like her. We weren't even looking for her, and we found her. And then because of that, they go seeking out all these other super people and create the Avengers. And in my mind, it's a much sadder version of that, where they're like, we weren't even looking for any bodies, and we found 50 now, you know,

[Eva]

like, there has to be the end of it.

[Christine]

Hundreds here. There has to be so many. At that point, I would just. I mean, part. I mean, I wouldn't, because it'd be, like, just disrespecting all the other buys. But part of me would just Be like let's just scrape the whole land clean.

[Eva]

You're just going to be the great. The grading. Suddenly you know all about land grading. You're going to grade the whole cliffside off.

[Christine]

You're right. Yeah. I don't know what's wrong with me. I certainly wouldn't build a steakhouse there. I'll tell you that.

[Eva]

I like that. You're like, I'll, I'll throw the whole thing into the ocean but I wouldn't build a building on top of it.

[Christine]

That feels wrong. Yeah, no, yeah, I am. I would just, honestly just leave it the alone. As soon as you find out that it was once a burial ground, why was anyone touching it?

[Eva]

Because it's a ace piece of property.

[Christine]

Look around.

[Eva]

It was.

[Christine]

I mean it's a beautiful piece of property. I think.

[Eva]

I mean, I mean I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying why probably, you know.

[Christine]

No, it makes sense why someone decided to do it.

[Eva]

Okay. Wow. Good job. I'm sick of those fuddy duddies trying to. Trying to take my money and fees and stuff and not even like rewarding me for it.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eva]

No. I'm ready for chime. And the revolution is here, folks.

[Christine]

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[Eva]

Yeah, I know, right. Like let's all get on board here. You can even get up to 500 of your pay when you pay with my pay and you get as m always knows my favorite premium travel perks like airport lounge access. Don't mind if I do. Thank you.

[Christine]

Chime card and 247 travel concierge included with your time card too.

[Eva]

Ooh la la.

[Christine]

I'm just, I'm just telling you. So chime is changing the way that people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking built for you. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees which

[Eva]

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[Christine]

Those the only ones I dealt with for a long time and I'm glad I have to deal with it. No mo.

[Eva]

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[Christine]

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[Eva]

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[Christine]

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[Eva]

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[Christine]

Qualifying direct deposits required terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. We recently went through our bathroom stuff.

[Eva]

Trying always.

[Christine]

So try to do a declutter. Yeah, there's nothing scarier than drawers. You just never know what you're going to find in there.

[Eva]

Sticky in there.

[Christine]

There. Sticky. Slimy things explode, you know. I was like, Allison, you cannot keep all of this. And she said, fine, fine, I'll get rid of everything. But I'm not going to get rid of the oa. I'm not getting rid of.

[Eva]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I have mine actually on my counter because they come in these beautiful like glass little and I love like a pump bottle.

[Christine]

Chic, Chic.

[Eva]

Oh, it's so chic. It's so chic. And they have this, this is what I've wanted and I feel like I didn't know how to put it into words, but they have this hyaluronic body serum and after I take a shower I put it on and it like helps so much with the evenness of my skin tone, which is something I don't really talk about but I've been really insecure about like my skin on my legs. And this stuff freaking works. Like it really does. It really does.

[Christine]

Yeah. It's shown to deliver instant 24 hour multi level non stop hydration instantly boosting hydration by 161% after one use to support the skin's moisture barrier.

[Eva]

And it's a mother daughter founded skincare brand and I had to hear that one time in college. Go. Love it.

[Christine]

I'm in. Yeah.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But they use the power of seaweed and the healing wisdom of the Ocean. And for 30 years OIA has stayed consistent with clean clinically tested skin care from the sea.

[Eva]

Oia's hyaluronic body serum is multi layer hyaluronic powered hydration for the entire body. And right now we have a special discount just for you. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with code drink@ocma malibu.com okay. Hello everyone. We're back from yappy hour. I'm just like blew my mind with that storytelling of just a little old thing about like solving a legacy mystery of the family like beyond the being led beyond the grave. I mean, come on.

[Christine]

Like, you make it sound a lot more magical than it.

[Eva]

No, it's crazy. I mean, you said it. Very matter of fact, but I think it's pretty darn. It's pretty darn cool, folks. Anyway, so I'm going to tell you a true crime case today. This is, unfortunately, the story of the murder of Jody Loomis. And it begins in the 70s, August 23rd, 1972, when we're in Snohomish County, Washington, which is on the Puget Sound. I imagine you know more about that than I do.

[Christine]

Because of Washington.

[Eva]

Yeah, the entire area. I don't know. It says it's right north of Seattle.

[Christine]

I'll tell you, whenever I'm visiting my family on the highway, there are signs that direct me towards things that say Puget.

[Eva]

Okay, Puget Sound.

[Christine]

I mean, I know nothing else.

[Eva]

I listen to death cat for cutie. So, you know, I, I, I get the vibe. Right.

[Christine]

Perfect.

[Eva]

So today, 68% of Snohomish county is forested land. And at the time, much of the area was rural farmland. Walter Morris. Oh, my God. I'm.

[Christine]

Maybe that's the M. Walter M.

[Eva]

You got to write that down. Now, that would be something else.

[Christine]

Literally writing Walter Morris down. And then if I ever stumble across

[Eva]

it, that'll blow my write down. Episode 490 Just so you're not like, what the is this?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, like.

[Eva]

Because otherwise you'd be like, what the.

[Christine]

Okay, perfect.

[Eva]

Whoa. That would be weird. But yeah, Walter again. Remember we had Walter for a while, like, stalking us on the show.

[Christine]

There's always a Walter amongst us.

[Eva]

Wow. So Walter Morrison, Kathy Gogol were out in the woods to practice shooting, and on their way, they had to stop because there was a large log blocking the road. So they get out of the car to move the tree, and when they look into the woods, they notice notice a body lying on the ground. When they approach to see if this woman is okay, she doesn't respond. And obviously they can tell immediately something terrible has happened to her. She was lying on her back, wearing a pair of boots, long socks, and underwear. Her blue jeans and other clothes had been removed and scattered on the ground around her. The couple noted a terrible wound on the side of her head, but she was still breathing. So there was no way to call for help. And leaving one person behind while the other went for help would have been dangerous because, like, if somebody had attacked this woman, they could still be in the woods, like, hiding by the tree, or they could come back. So instead they carried her to the car, put her in the passenger seat and rushed to the nearest hospital. And while one of them drove the other, the other one held the woman's head upright to try and keep her airway open. Like that's far gone. She was at the hospital. There was no way to identify the young woman. She didn't have an ID on her or any other personal belongings aside from her clothing. Now we cut back two hours earlier when 20 year old Jody Loomis left home to ride her horse which was stabled on a nearby property four miles away. She was a middle child of three and she lived at home in Bothel. Everything pronounced there differently than I think it is.

[Christine]

So I agree. It's same with.

[Eva]

Right.

[Christine]

Like the Midwest. Like.

[Eva]

Yes. Like Versailles. Yeah, yeah. So hopefully I'm saying that right. Bothel. If not, please forgive me. Washington with her parents, Rosemary and John Senior. She had one younger sister named Jana and a fiance named Jim whom her family really loved. And Jana actually considered Jim an older brother, so really part of the family. Her 27 year old brother John was married and was kind of like living off with his own family family. That day, Jody borrowed 12 year old Jana's boots, her little sister's boots, and left for the stable on a bike. Jody at this point was an adult and her parents were fairly relaxed. They just kind of wanted her home by dark and they're out in like rural area, you know, like they just let her go be with her horse and stuff and it never been a problem before. But when evening came around, you know, darkness falls, Jody is not home and immediately her parents are very concerned. Before she had left the house, it was family rules that you had to have a dime on you for the pay phone in case something happened. And that was standard. And she did have the dime confirmed it and she left. So having heard nothing, long after dark, her family's freaking the out. They start calling friends, hospitals, finally the police to report her missing.

[Christine]

That's horrible. Even like back in. You have to imagine you're like hoping that she dropped the coin or used the diamond, something else at some point, like totally, totally.

[Eva]

And like got lost or. Yeah. Oh my God. I mean just the, just the dread.

[Christine]

I can't imagine. We're, we're just so lucky in some ways that like just. I can't imagine.

[Eva]

It's just a totally different world. Yeah.

[Christine]

I can't imagine not having like find

[Eva]

my not being just.

[Christine]

You just have to hope that people are fine. You just have to hope that people

[Eva]

are yeah, now, now you can be like, oh, they're at the grocery store on Find My Friends or whatever. Right?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, that's so.

[Eva]

Yeah. So after they call the police, the police. Police show up at the door and. Yeah, you don't like to. To see that. So the police arrive at the Loomis home to tell them they believe their daughter had been brought to the hospital earlier that day, grievously wounded and had since passed away. They believe in the car on the way to the hospital that that's where she died. Which is just terribly.

[Christine]

When she was being like held up to breathe.

[Eva]

Yeah, when she was like being taken to the hospital. So they had to have John Senior, the dad, go to the hospital to confirm whether this was his daughter. So Jana later recalled the little sister in an interview that her mother collapsed on the floor. The whole family was horrified. Like, she just went out to ride her horses. She always did. And now she was dead. Jody was positively identified in the hospital by her father. And shortly after her death, the coroner ruled that Jody had been raped and that she had been killed by a gunshot wound to the head. By. Yes, fired from a.22 caliber handgun. So just in cold blood. Because Jody was in her boots with one tied and the other untied and she seemed to have been shot from like an upper angle. They think that this attacker had raped her and then as she was putting her shoes back on, had shot her,

[Christine]

like, made her think for a second, like, okay, now you can be safe. Put your stuff. Fawn. Oh my God.

[Eva]

I know it's.

[Christine]

Oh my God.

[Eva]

A really horrendous detail. Detectives had bagged Jody's boots as evidence and collected seminal fluid from her underwear. But you know, this was pre DNA technology, so they had almost nothing to go on forensically, especially this had been outside, you know. Instead, they focused immediately on witnesses, anyone who might have had the opportunity to kill Jody that day. They of course, questioned the fiance, Jim, but he was at work and he worked at the hospital where she was brought.

[Christine]

Oh my God.

[Eva]

Yeah. And he didn't even know she was there until he was on shift. And he didn't know she was there until she had already passed. Just mindboggling. Detectives then began questioning the Rice family. They were the ones who rented more the more than 1,000 acre property where Jody's horse was stabled and where she was attacked in a band abandoned. So when police arrived on the property, 12 year old Alan Rice was outside cutting wood with his father, Ken Rice. They were both questioned, of course, Both denied having anything to do with Jody. You would, wouldn't you? You know, just saying doesn't just convince me of much, but, yeah, I feel.

[Christine]

I feel like you have to assume everyone's gonna say, I didn't do it, right?

[Eva]

Like, what's the. What's this. What's this man's word over anybody?

[Christine]

You know, real diamond in the ref when someone goes, yep, you found me.

[Eva]

Yeah, seriously, it's like, yeah, okay, sure, can. Whatever. I don't know. It just bothers me. Anyway, so they were like, no, we had nothing to do with any of it, and we had no knowledge of her presence on the property. Now, Kendra Rice, her. That's her maiden name. Was 14 years old. She has since changed her name to Maturo or Makoro. She was 14 years old at the time and ran an outdoor fruit stand farther out on a busier road where she sold produce that her family grew on the farm. And she remembered seeing a young blonde woman go by on a bike. And then later, two men in a station wagon. So detectives questioned a group of men who sometimes met on the property that also went nowhere, though. Now, near the trail where she was killed, they discovered Jody's bike and a dime nearby.

[Christine]

Oh, what? I mean, okay, I. I'm. I know how this goes. This doesn't go well. I. I would like to think in that moment, though, I was hopeful that, like, everyone's got coins back then. Like, that it could be any coin, right?

[Eva]

Wait, what?

[Christine]

They found a dime next to the. You said a shoe or a sock

[Eva]

next to her bike.

[Christine]

Oh, next to her bike. But I would say, like, there was, like, loose change everywhere all the time back then. So, like, hopefully it's not her dime. Like, hopefully.

[Eva]

Well, I mean, it. It was.

[Christine]

Well, it ends up being her dimension.

[Eva]

I don't. Wait, why would it matter, though? Or would it matter?

[Christine]

Like, at the time, I would be. If I were her parents or something, I would be, like, hopeful that maybe it wasn't her dime. As, like, more added evidence says, like, okay, they found her bike next to coins.

[Eva]

Oh, well, they already have her bot. I mean, she's already dead.

[Christine]

Yep. You're totally right. I don't know why I was.

[Eva]

I was like, I feel like it's too late for any sort of.

[Christine]

And, like, I was literally right here when you told me that, like, her dad had to go like this.

[Eva]

Yeah.

[Christine]

The body and everything. I think I just blacked that. That out.

[Eva]

No, that's okay. Okay. No, that does make more sense. Why you would not Want it to be the. The coin? Yes.

[Christine]

Right.

[Eva]

No.

[Christine]

Okay, now I'm totally.

[Eva]

Unfortunately, yeah. Near where she was killed, they discovered her bike and a dime, presumably the one that she had brought with her. But they never found the horse bridle that she had taken to the stable. So nobody knows what happened to that. Upon discovering a red jacket in the woods that belonged to the father, Ken Rose Rice, he was again questioned, but this time he admitted to having seen Jody on her bicycle, which made him the last known witness to see her alive. And he said he'd also seen these two hippieish men in the station wagon that his daughter had also described and that he'd heard motorcycles in the area. But he did maintain that he had not heard any gunshots and that even if he had, people were shooting on the property regularly, so it wouldn't have necessarily raised an alarm.

[Christine]

And at this point point, even though they found her, like, his jacket with her did.

[Eva]

So they found the jacket on the thousand acre property, like, in the woods, but it wasn't, like, where she was attacked or anything like that. It was just, like, in the general vicinity of the woods.

[Christine]

Would that be a ding, ding, ding for you, or would that be like a. Oh, that's weird for me, like, as a. Like, if you were. If you discovered that, because I feel like I would still think, like, oh, that doesn't.

[Eva]

I mean, it's his land. I don't think it's that weird. Yeah. Yeah.

[Christine]

Okay. That's.

[Eva]

I think they were just combing the woods again, and they were like, hey, we found your jacket. So they questioned him again, but the fact that he changed his story this time and said, I did actually see her is, like, what was alarming, you know, and then confirming that he also saw two people or saying he saw two people in a station wagon, and very quickly they, like, kind of ran out of any evidence, and the trail went cold. Poor Janna, the little sister was left with, like, no answers. And she'd always thought of Jody as, like, her big, strong older sister, right? So now it's like, how could somebody not only hurt her, but, like, kill her? And we just don't even know who it is. Jody had been a lover of the outdoors, animals, people. Like, she had been very vocal about standing up for, like, the underdog. So at one point, like, people, she saw someone shooting pigeons just for fun, and she, like, like, intervened, you know, and she had a very, like, a personality of authority is how Jana described it. And so then when she just winds up leaving the House for a few hours and is dead. It was like such a shock to her system. And she. Even when she intervened with that person shooting the pigeons, she actually brought one of the wounded pigeons home and rehabilitated it. I know she was also an artist. She sold her carvings at local shops. And Jana said she was everything in older as an old older sister that Jana strived to be as a person. And that just got to me. And now suddenly she, her little sister Jana and her best friend Pat are like in this like void of her absence and no answers, no closure. In the years following Jody's killing, there were several times detectives did follow up on tips. They went entertaining multiple possibilities, but everything kind of like faltered out. One of the tips they investigated was a motorcycle gang called the Reaper, the Reapers Road Men. And I'm not laughing at them, please, I'm so scared.

[Christine]

They're like, first of all, they're listening to our show and then they take the cigar out of their mouth and go, what the hell did you call us?

[Eva]

I'm like, I'm so scared. The motorcycle gang, the Reapers road Men. And they're no joke. One of the roadmen apparently reported to police that other roadmen had described the rape and murder of. Of a young woman with a 10 speed bike. And it sounded like Jody's story. So he reported this. Nope. Apparently just another story or another story

[Christine]

or another victim or whatever.

[Eva]

Exactly. Exactly. One of the roadmen had actually shot. Who was talking about this? This attack, this rape had actually shot aimlessly at a passing train and had struck the conductor. And his weapon was a.22 caliber pistol, which is the same that was used to murder Jody. So they were like, okay, there is some substantive stuff here, but upon FBI analysis, it was not the murder weapon. For a minute they thought maybe it was Ted Bundy, but he was in a different part of the country and years would just pass. And the Loomis family preserved Jody's room just as it was when she died, which always is so eerie and haunting and trapped tragic.

[Christine]

I think I would do the exact same thing, though.

[Eva]

I know how to. It's like a memorial. Yeah, I wouldn't either. So, I mean, I don't know what I would do, but like, yeah, I imagine I would probably do something similar. Let's see. Years passed. Her death haunted them as well as the wider community because the killer was never caught. It also haunt. Well, at the time, it also haunted Kendra Wright Nay Rice, who was certain that her Brother Allen, the 12 year old at the time, could not have been involved. But in the back of her mind, she had this nagging thought that her dad may have been capable of something so horrible.

[Christine]

That's horrifying. I mean, any. Yeah, I. I totally believe her, that there must have been signs for her to think that. But also, I. I imagine if there was a family tragedy like this, it does make you question everybody. All of a sudden, you're like.

[Eva]

Like, yes. Well, here's you. Here's your answer. He'd made comments about women in her childhood, especially while watching tv, and said. And said. She said in an interview that because of what she had personally experienced at his hand, she could not be sure that he wasn't involved. Her father sexually abused her and her sisters. They used to padlock their bedroom doors. The dad used to padlock their bedroom doors. And so, you know, she's like, well, he wasn't. He treated me this way. Like, who's to say that he didn't do this to someone else and something even worse and. And killed her? Okay, so this says here they'd love to see the product on screen, but mud water, unfortunately, I use in my kitchen because it's become part of my routine. I'm just going to hope that you trust me that mud water has become one of my favorite little routines. And they sent along, like, a little frother foamer thing, and I make, like, this nice little. Oh, my. I know it's called mud water, folks, but is, like, the most soothing little ritual I have now. It's. It's like caffeine, but, like, without that crazy buzz.

[Christine]

I mean, you were just saying that, like, you realized you have been taking in a lot of sugar and so much caffeine.

[Eva]

Like, because when I quit drinking, totally, it was like, I. I reverted to that. And so mud water, like, came in right at the exact perfect time. So now, instead of, like, a second cup of coffee, I'll drink my mud water. And because they gave the starter kit, sent the starter kit my way. Super easy. It's like the OG it's like an original chai choc. It's so delicious and lovely. I'm just. I'm really. I'm feeling it.

[Christine]

They have with it four flavors. They have chai chocolate. They have coffee, matcha, and turmeric. I know Allison would go for the turmeric no matter what your flavor is. You know, give it a shot. Get ready to make the switch to cleaner energy. Go to mud water. That's M U d w t r.com Drink and grab the starter kit. Use Code drink and you'll get 43% off. The frother alone is worth it.

[Eva]

It's true. That's right. Up to 43. Off with code drink@m u d wtr.com after your purchase, they'll ask how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. So Kendra continued following the case, feeling unable to let it go. And because it was, like, on her property, like you said, like, it's also just so tied to her own family lore at this point.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

And it seemed like for decades that nobody would get any answers, but in 2005, and it's like, not. This is also. I just have so many question marks. In 2005, the Loomis family received a phone call informing them that a new cold case unit was reviewing the case. It had been 32 years by this point. And they were confident because they had this seminal fluid from her underwear, they were confident that they could use DNA technology now to lead them to a suspect. Then the family immediately got a call that, oh, oops, they've actually lost all the evidence. So we don't know even have it. And I'm like, could we have waited a minute to find. To make sure we have the evidence?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Eva]

It's like, why would you even say we have this, like, substantial collection of. I mean, I'm not, like, blaming that. I'm sure there was just a reason for how it was.

[Christine]

I mean, if you're this mad, imagine the parents being.

[Eva]

I mean. Right. Exactly. Talk about a letdown, you know? I mean, it's just crushing. They were, like, completely destroyed. Right. And they. Because they like their hope. It's just like you're being strung along, you know? So three years later, in 2008, they were able to actually recover DNA from fluids on Jody's left boot. So they were able to find more evidence. The DNA was submitted to codis, but there was no match, which means that whoever had done this had not been caught for anything in all this time, you know, and their DNA had not been entered into the system. And Jana said at this point, it was so devastating because she didn't know if she'd ever see the face of the person who murdered her son. Sister. She kept holding on and waiting for any break in the case. There was a tip about the stable owner where the. Where the horse was kept. And his wife had been one of Jody's friends. But he had made, like, upsetting sexual comments to Jody enough that her father had actually gone over there and confronted the Man Andy had no alibi, but when they did a DNA test on this now elderly man, he was ruled out. They again asked Ken and Alan Rice and both submitted DNA samples, but neither of them matched. So Kendra was like, relieved to be rid of the anxiety that her father had done this and was able to let that go finally, thankfully. But the family, of course, is still waiting. Was still waiting for answers at this point. So detectives began filing warrants and just taking DNA from everyone ever considered in the case, down to individual members of the reapers roadmen. In 2018, it had been 46 years since Jody was murdered. And and the coroner, the original detectives on the case, all of them had since died, but Jody's mother, Rosemary was still alive. And Janna was caring for her in her old age, hoping that maybe there was a chance, like right before, you know, in the last few years, waiting

[Christine]

her whole life and hoping.

[Eva]

And then as the sister being like, this is the last chance to, like, give her some peace. So it was that year when detectives on Jody's case learned about our favorite favorite forensic genealogy, which of course we've talked about a lot on the podcast. He sent the DNA profile to a genetic genealogist who spent as m. Was even talking about doing the mystery work. Spent 58 hours in three days, which, like, it takes somebody with our effed up brains to do like that. But it really, it goes away when you get in that zone and it's like 53 days. Like, hello, we know what that is. Okay. I spent 58 hours and three days digging for suspects led to a trail of seven children, the Miller family. Six sons, one daughter. The unfortunately not one son and six daughters would have made it easier to narrow down the seminal fluid. But anyway, the investigative team believed one of the sons was Jody's killer. That's how close the match was.

[Christine]

Holy crap.

[Eva]

And when they. I know, I can't believe it. When they looked into the family, they discovered that one of the brothers, 77 year old Terence Miller, had a criminal history and he had been arrested for sexual crimes against children. But he was free to go as long as he completed counseling. I can't.

[Christine]

Like, okay, I can't.

[Eva]

So he was at this point or at 77?

[Christine]

77. I was trying to think, like, would it even be worth it for him to go to jail? But Yeah, I think 77, he still

[Eva]

has a lot of time that he could do, so. Glad you said that. Just wait a moment.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Eva]

Because that. Wow. Yeah, you really, really psychic today. So he was also accused of sexually Abusing his own children and then his grandchildren. Certain that Terence was Jody's killer, investigators began to follow him. Allah. Golden State killer. Waiting for him to leave his DNA.

[Christine]

Like he was destined at this point to intact again.

[Eva]

Well, no, no, they were looking for his DNA.

[Christine]

I get it. I'm sorry. I should shut the up.

[Eva]

Actually, that's like very criminal minds. They're like. Wait.

[Christine]

They're like planting like, like, like waiting for him to plot again. You just meant like for them to. For him just leave DNA somewhere.

[Eva]

To leave DNA somewhere. Yeah. Like when the Golden State who they went through his trash and all that. So they got that opportunity Aug. 29, 2018, when he drank coffee in a casino, threw the cup in the trash. Police swoop that bad boy up. Sent it to be tested. Ding dong. Match confirmed.

[Christine]

Good.

[Eva]

Jana told her mother the update and that investigators were so close to catching the man who killed Jody and they now knew who it was. And Rosemary was beaming all night long.

[Christine]

Oh, good.

[Eva]

I know. So after building the case against Terence for months, which was difficult because the original corner and detectives were dead and couldn't be, you know, brought to the stand, obviously. Unless. No, I'm just kidding. Authorities announced his arrest in 2019, which was 47 years after Jody's murder. And this was a shock because he was now living in Edmonds, Washington, which was like really close to what he had done almost 50 years ago. That's crazy. The lead sheriff's brother and his brother's wife. Wife had been on the same bowling team for six years. Yeah, like, this was like someone like, talk about pillar of the community.

[Christine]

Part of you wonders like, is, is it just because it was a small town or is it like, was he kind of doing the whole like you always run back to the scene of the crime and was he like, I know. Trying to kind of know who were on the case to hear.

[Eva]

I mean, it seems like he just kind of hung around the area, but I don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah, you don't always so sinister though, because if I committed anything that could put me in jail, I would be on the other side of the country. I would have left the country. Country.

[Eva]

He's literally been. That's a little too confident for me. Sexually assaulting his own children, grandchildren. So I'm like, it seems like he's kind of. Kind of free to do whatever he wants, it feels like, but yeah, so finally they. People were shocked, I guess people are always shocked. You know, it's just something. 78 year old Terrence pleaded not guilty wow. Big of him. To one charge of first degree murder. And he gathered his assets to make the nearly one million dollar bail. And he was allowed to go home to take care of his wife who had suffered a stroke. So the trial commenced in October of 2020. Jana recalled Terence being stoic throughout, but she looked him in the eye. She said, when you're looking at someone you think murdered your sister, you're going to look them right in the eyes. And she said that on the stand during the trial. It was very surreal because Jan was able. Jana was able to see her boots in person for the first time in nearly 50 years after loaning them to her big sister that day to go ride horses. Just like wow. The prosecution made their closing arguments on Friday, November 6th. The jury reconvened Monday, November 9th. And guilty. Guilty verdict. But he would not be imprisoned for what he did because that morning he had died by suicide.

[Christine]

Shut the up.

[Eva]

He had shot himself with the same type of gun he had used against Jody.22 caliber pistol. And the jury was not informed, formed, because they wanted like a pure deliberation and they wanted the answer. And so Terence's attorney was like, well, no, like. And they were like, well, no. Whether he's alive or not doesn't diminish the verdict. They had the evidence that they had. Yeah. So, yeah, at least there was the verdict, but at least he was found guilty, I guess, but I know, I know.

[Christine]

Suffered zero percent for it.

[Eva]

Yeah. The defense accused Walter Morris, one of the people, remember Walter, one of the people who had discovered Jody in the woods of being involved because his story about the day had changed with confusion over whether he and Kathy were like, going shooting or picking berries. And she said death seemed preferable to letting a jury decide a verdict on tainted evidence. This is a terrible tragedy that began with Jody Loomis's death and is compounded by an innocent man taking his own life. But the prosecution was like, no, it's not. The guy who was going berry picking. It was this monster. Monster, okay. Jody's family was like, happy about the answer, but also, like, like you said, frustrated. Jody's older brother John said he got away with it for 48 years. I was so glad they finally got him. Justice was almost done. And Janice said that after the conviction, she felt like she could finally breathe. She had not ridden horses for years since Jody's death, and she began riding horses again with her own daughter. And she, she just felt like a bit of a weightlifted. And she said, I miss her for all My years that I had with her and for all the years that I didn't have with her. And that is the story of Jod Loomis. Just pretty tragic.

[Christine]

It's. Yeah, that's a. I'm glad that they found the guy and, like, the family got closure. Like, I can't be mad about that.

[Eva]

And I hope it scares the. Out of every other who's out there. As a grandfather, father.

[Christine]

It really is one of those bowling league, you.

[Eva]

You know.

[Christine]

Well, it was one of those cases just in. In the timeline of. Of things that, like, it sounds like it all started before DNA was something that he even had to consider.

[Eva]

Yep.

[Christine]

Right.

[Eva]

But then they're shaking in their boots now these.

[Christine]

You know, then again, I would also be terrified of ever leaving my DNA anywhere.

[Eva]

All of us, they're not terrified. They're monsters.

[Christine]

Crazy that they're just so controversial. Confident in all of this.

[Eva]

Just brazen.

[Christine]

It's great. I mean, and, like, they get away. Sad up. Part two is like, he was kind of right for a long time. He got away with it for a long time. Like, yeah, it's still horrible.

[Eva]

He's gonna be paying some karmic justice.

[Christine]

Good storytelling. I say that every time I. There's no other positivity I can give, but.

[Eva]

Well, thank you. I'm feeling super hot and bothered by this weather, so I'm sorry.

[Christine]

I don't know why I brought it up. I just really. It was so silly and.

[Eva]

No.

[Christine]

Got to hear it. And I just felt you really were

[Eva]

disappointed we weren't recording when I said

[Christine]

it, so it was so funny. It really made my day. So.

[Eva]

Oh, my God. It was like the first thing I said after not seeing you for two weeks.

[Christine]

I knew what you meant when you said it. I knew what you meant, but it just.

[Eva]

It was like, coming out of my mouth, and I went, this is not. Not it. Not what I was going for anyway.

[Christine]

It really. It really tickled me. I just wanted everyone else to also be tickled.

[Eva]

Okay, well, thank you for listening to our podcast. You can find us every Sunday or the first of the month for a listener's episode. And you can check us out at atww Podcast or. And that's why I drink dot com.

[Christine]

And that's why we drink. Ouch. This knee is killing me.

[Eva]

But I can't stop training. The marathon is in two weeks. Let's get on zocdoc and find a doctor to take a look at that for you.

[Christine]

Okay, Here's a review.

[Eva]

Dr. Craddock really takes his time. No, I don't have time. What about Dr. Charles? His patients say he can help find a quick fix. And he's in network. Great.

[Christine]

Now we're talking.

[Eva]

Book it.

[Christine]

Booked.

[Eva]

One mile down, 19 to go. Bring it on.

[Christine]

You've got Options. Download the ZocDoc app today.

[Eva]

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[Christine]

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[Eva]

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[Christine]

Outdoor Deterrence requires a Simplisafe Active Guard Outdoor Protection plan starting at $49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee2012.