Bernie Sanders Rips DC Corruption, The Israel Lobby, & Reveals How Billionaires Buy Politicians

Summary

Podcast Summary: Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh Episode: Bernie Sanders Rips DC Corruption, The Israel Lobby, & Reveals How Billionaires Buy Politicians
Release Date: May 19, 2025
Hosts: Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh
Guest: Senator Bernie Sanders

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh, Senator Bernie Sanders joins the hosts to discuss pressing issues surrounding political corruption, the influence of billionaires in politics, and systemic problems within American institutions. The conversation is unfiltered and unapologetic, aligning with the podcast's ethos of delivering "flagrant" hot takes without regard for political correctness.

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The Influence of Billionaires in Politics

Bernie Sanders delves into how the ultra-wealthy wield disproportionate power in American politics, primarily through the creation and funding of Super PACs. He criticizes the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision, which Sanders argues has enabled billionaires like Elon Musk to exert undue influence over political campaigns.

Bernie Sanders [20:38]: "The Supreme Court ruled that billionaires… see that is freedom of speech… you're a billionaire, you can spend as much as you want on political ads."

Sanders emphasizes that this influx of money distorts democracy, making it nearly impossible for honest politicians to compete against those backed by vast financial resources.

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Campaign Finance and the Citizens United Decision

The discussion highlights the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, which Sanders contends has corrupted the campaign finance system by allowing unlimited political spending from Super PACs.

Bernie Sanders [21:20]: "Supreme Court says billionaires… are able to spend unlimited sums of money… that's what Citizens United did."

Sanders proposes practical solutions for politicians to resist Super PAC influence, such as pledging not to accept Super PAC funding and matching incoming funds to counteract billionaire contributions.

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Healthcare System in America

A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to the state of the American healthcare system. Sanders criticizes the exorbitant costs and lack of universal coverage, contrasting it with more efficient systems in European countries.

Bernie Sanders [11:23]: "If you got the money, you got the best healthcare system in the world. But most people don't."

He advocates for Medicare for All, stressing that while the U.S. spends twice as much per capita on healthcare as European nations, the quality of care and accessibility remain subpar for the majority.

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Educational System and Valuing Educators

Sanders addresses the declining state of the American educational system, highlighting the underpayment and undervaluing of educators.

Bernie Sanders [14:06]: "We pay childcare workers McDonald's wages… taxpayers are putting huge sums of money… but these guys make a fortune."

He proposes significant reforms, including making higher education tuition-free and substantially increasing teachers' salaries to attract and retain qualified individuals.

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Wealth Inequality and Economic Policies

The issue of wealth inequality is a central theme, with Sanders pointing out that while the U.S. is the richest country globally, the wealth is grossly unevenly distributed.

Bernie Sanders [10:00]: "60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. All of this in the richest country on earth."

He calls for progressive taxation, limiting the accumulation of wealth among the ultra-rich, and ensuring that economic growth benefits the broader population rather than just a select few.

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Cultural Perspectives and Societal Values

Sanders challenges the prevailing American culture that glorifies extreme wealth and success at any cost, advocating instead for valuing professions that contribute significantly to society, such as teaching and healthcare.

Bernie Sanders [52:28]: "We need doctors… we need nurses… we need dentists. We don’t have enough."

He envisions a societal shift where roles that enhance community well-being are respected and adequately compensated, moving away from the obsession with billionaire status.

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Political Strategies to Combat Corruption

The conversation explores strategies to mitigate the influence of wealth in politics, including:

• Ending Citizens United: Sanders stresses the necessity of overturning this landmark decision to restore fairness in campaign financing.

• Grassroots Movements: Encouraging the rise of independent candidates and grassroots initiatives to challenge the established political machinery.

• Union Support: Highlighting the importance of unions in endorsing candidates who genuinely represent working-class interests over those backed by wealthy donors.

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Closing Remarks

In concluding the episode, Bernie Sanders urges listeners to become actively involved in reshaping American politics and society. He emphasizes the power of collective action and the importance of standing up against entrenched financial and political interests to create a more equitable and just nation.

Bernie Sanders [82:09]: "We need to transform the country. Time is late. We're dealing with authoritarianism… Let's get involved in ways that we've never been involved before."

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Notable Quotes

• Andrew Schulz [00:00]: "Welcome to Flagrant. Our guest today is one of the only people in politics who hasn't traded conviction for convenience."

• Bernie Sanders [10:52]: "60% of people live paycheck to paycheck."

• Bernie Sanders [20:38]: "Supreme Court says billionaires… are able to spend unlimited sums of money… that's what Citizens United did."

• Bernie Sanders [52:28]: "We need doctors… we need nurses… we need dentists. We don’t have enough."

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Conclusion

This episode of Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh offers a thorough and passionate examination of systemic issues plaguing American politics and society. Senator Bernie Sanders provides insightful critiques and actionable solutions aimed at reducing corruption, enhancing public welfare systems, and fostering a culture that values collective well-being over individual wealth accumulation. For listeners seeking an in-depth discussion on these critical topics, this episode serves as a valuable resource.

Transcript

[Andrew Schulz]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. Our guest today is one of the only people in politics who hasn't traded conviction for convenience. And somehow he is still here. For decades, he has stood in the middle of the storm, unbought, unbossed, untethered, saying what so many were too afraid to say, that working people deserve dignity, that health care is a right, that the system isn't broken.

[Bernie Sanders]

It was built to screw you over.

[Andrew Schulz]

He has been mocked, sidelined, betrayed, and that's just by his own party. And still he shows up, not for power, not for fame, but because he actually gives a damn. In a country drowning in cynicism, he made people believe, maybe for the first time, that someone in Washington was actually fighting for them. So please give a warm, flagrant welcome to the last honest man in politics from Brooklyn, New York Senator Bernie Sanders.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, let me get you out of here. That's it.

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay. I have a question. Okay, listen, and this is probably a sensitive topic. It might be too soon, actually. It actually might be too soon. Okay. So if you don't want to answer, I totally understand. In 1958. I think you know where this is going.

[Bernie Sanders]

Go ahead.

[Andrew Schulz]

When Walter o' Malley.

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, God.

[Andrew Schulz]

I know, I know. This one cuts deep when he moves the Brooklyn Dodgers to Los Angeles, and he does it for corporate greed and profits, and he doesn't care about the community that built up that team.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right.

[Andrew Schulz]

It broke a young Brooklyn boy's heart. Probably many.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yep.

[Andrew Schulz]

It seems like. And it could be a coincidence that ever since then you've had it out for the billionaires. Is that where it all started?

[Bernie Sanders]

I'll tell you something. Two things. There was a joke going around my neighborhood, Flatbush, and what it said, the three worst people in modern history were Hitler, Stalin and Walter o' Malley.

[Andrew Schulz]

And.

[Bernie Sanders]

Not necessarily. Not. All.

[Andrew Schulz]

Right.

[Bernie Sanders]

That was the joke. But you know what I did learn first? You're kind of joking about the question. Yeah. But I'll tell you something. When you grow up as a kid, they have a thing called the Brooklyn Dodgers. Of course. Brooklyn. Yeah. So when you're a kid, the idea that it could be moved someplace, it's insanity. When you're a kid, you can't. That it's privately owned, run for profit, and that it can be moved to California was literally beyond your comprehension. Beyond my comprehension. So it was a real shock. And if you're asking me did that have an impact on my political views, it did. Actually, it did. Because the Dodgers were a cohesive force in Brooklyn Bringing people together. Jackie Robinson, etc. Etc. So, yeah, that was. That had an impact on me, really.

[Andrew Schulz]

So it all starts there.

[Bernie Sanders]

I don't say it all starts there, but I learned something from that again, I mean, you think about it. He was something so important. Yeah. The crucial. People didn't give a damn to make more money. Let's go to California.

[Andrew Schulz]

It was as simple as that. Like, there was just Giants.

[Bernie Sanders]

There was a huge market out there in California.

[Andrew Schulz]

Right, right.

[Bernie Sanders]

Everybody. They can make more money.

[Andrew Schulz]

I think he starts baseball on the West Coast.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah. He and the Giants guy.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's right. That's right. And was it. I don't know. I mean, we have to get too much into it. But I heard Robert Moses was pushing back a lot on rebuilding of a stadium. That could be bullshit, but it doesn't matter.

[Bernie Sanders]

That raises a whole other issue. But you know, sports and professional sports and all that stuff. But yeah, it was a big deal.

[Akash Singh]

That's the first exposure to, you know.

[Bernie Sanders]

What you're seeing today. And it's something we haven' Looked at enough. It's something I want to is. It hasn't really changed. You have the. What is the function of professional sports? All of these teams are owned by billionaires.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And if Baltimore doesn't give you enough money, you're going to move someplace else. And in the matter, you know, you break the hearts of kids, nobody cares.

[Andrew Schulz]

Can I ask you a question about that? Like why is it the city puts up money for these new stadium builds and we don't get any of the equity in the team?

[Bernie Sanders]

Very good. Well, now you're raising another question. I was mayor of Burlington and Burlington, Vermont. We'd love everybody to visit us in Vermont. And we had no professional baseball at all. I got elected way back at 81. I said, one of the things that I want to do is see if.

[Andrew Schulz]

We can bring back the Brooklyn Dodgers.

[Bernie Sanders]

That was a little bit too ambitious.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's how you silence Bernie.

[Bernie Sanders]

But could we bring professional baseball? So we got to work on it. And we ended up getting a double. I think it was a double A team, very good team in the Cincinnati Reds. Francis. And we were talking hard about how we can municipally own it. And we actually love it. Yeah, we would have put public money into it. It would have been. We would have made money off of it and all that stuff. We ended up losing it on the city council. But it was an effort that we tried to make anyhow. We brought the team in. It was really good for the community. But years later, they left, etc. Etc. But the idea that taxpayers are putting huge sums of money, hundreds of millions of dollars, the school systems are falling apart, they're putting billions of dollars or huge sums of money to build these huge stadiums, these guys make a fortune, and then, you know, 10 years later they move out.

[Andrew Schulz]

And there's this excuse that they all use. They're like, yeah, but we're providing jobs. It's like, yeah. So you could have a business that functions. You can't have a basketball team that functions without people working there.

[Bernie Sanders]

You're not doing jobs part time, low paying jobs, by the way.

[Andrew Schulz]

Right.

[Bernie Sanders]

So it's.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

This whole thing of professional sports owned by a small number of very wealthy people is. And what's the irony? You want to go to a Red Sox, we go to Red Sox games. You go to Yankee games. How much does it cost to take a family? If you're a husband, wife, two kids, Hundreds of dollars. Yeah. You buy a Coca Cola, it cost you five bucks, ten bucks, whatever it is. I mean, that's kind of crap. I mean, when I was a kid going to Ebbets Field in Brooklyn. You remember Ebbets Field? You know what it was?

[Andrew Schulz]

No, no. I'm a little bit younger than you. Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

He called himself a New Yorker.

[Andrew Schulz]

Was where the Dodgers lived. Yes, of course.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right.

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

So we used to sneak in and get 60 cent, you know, sit in the ble. And during that period, you know, a family could go to a game.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And now it's, you know, pretty odd.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And that's unfortunate. Really. It's great athletes out there, people want to see them.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

Can't afford it.

[Alex Media]

And also in that time you saw Jackie Robinson play.

[Bernie Sanders]

I did.

[Andrew Schulz]

True.

[Bernie Sanders]

I remember. Yes, I did.

[Alex Media]

What was the energy like in the stadium watching Jackie Robinson?

[Bernie Sanders]

I remember what I remember about him.

[Akash Singh]

When he was old, different Brooklyn back then.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah. What we used to do is hang out after the games to see if we got autographs. And I remember him coming out, he had problems with his ankle or his foot or something and he came out holding his shoes.

[Andrew Schulz]

How'd you know it was a Jackie Robinson?

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, odd one. But the. I mean, you talk about impact as a kid. We used to do this is true. I mean, the Dodgers were like a family.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

So I can tell you today, the dodge of light up. How's that? Wow. Everyone hear Gil Hodges in first place?

[Andrew Schulz]

No.

[Bernie Sanders]

Jesus. How do you people do? I told you, the educational system is falling apart. Gil Hodgson is a great guy. Very quiet guy. Later, he coached the. He managed the Mets. Years later, Junior Gilliam. Nothing. Yeah, yeah. Peewee Reese.

[Akash Singh]

He was, I think, very friendly with Jackie Robinson.

[Bernie Sanders]

Right.

[Akash Singh]

He, like, really, like, took the movie.

[Bernie Sanders]

They probably played it up a little. But he was. He came from Kentucky.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

You know, it's a Southern end, that point. A lot of racism. He befriended Robinson.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

Third base was Billy Cox. Left field was Genomansky. Center field was Duke. Slider. Probably heard of Duke Steiner. Right field, Colo. Roy Campanella. Catching. Bunch of. So I can. Now, what's my point? I can't remember what happened yesterday, but I remember that stuff from a long time ago. Because it was an integral part of your life.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And what you remember. All right, the Dodgers are two games out of first place. Preacher always pitching. You know, Robinson is batting, you know,308. If he gets two hits. We knew what the averages were. You learned arithmetic through baseball. Yeah, absolutely. As a kid, most of the kids on the block could tell you how many games the pitchers had won, who they were playing.

[Andrew Schulz]

I think now we call that autism. Okay.

[Akash Singh]

Okay.

[Andrew Schulz]

Senator Sanders, we've got a very interesting situation, especially this last election, you've spoken about a lot, where it's like a lot of unions decide to not endorse the Democratic Party. Some even endorse the Republican Party. If the Democratic Party cannot win the votes of union workers, who are they for?

[Bernie Sanders]

Good. Okay. All right, let's take a deep breath. You ready?

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, here we go.

[Andrew Schulz]

Is it a fair question?

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, it is a very fair question. All right. Politics. You know what politics, how politics is conveyed in the media is, you know, who's running for office, what Donald Trump said, and all that stuff, and that's all important. But if you take a deep breath and you think about real politics, serious politics, what's it about? It's about three things, it seems to me. Number one, where are we as a country today? And that. That seems like a simple question. It is not a simple question. Okay. How did we get to where we are? And equally important, where do we want to go in the future? Yeah. Reasonable questions.

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, Andrew, where are we today?

[Andrew Schulz]

We're in New York City. New York. What do you mean? Where are we politically?

[Bernie Sanders]

No, where are we as a nation? What are the things that we should be looking at? If I asked you, how are we doing as a nation?

[Akash Singh]

I would say we're struggling financially.

[Bernie Sanders]

Good. That's right.

[Alex Media]

Quality of life.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's exactly right.

[Andrew Schulz]

And I think that there we are Disillusioned with the institutions that should be supporting and protecting us.

[Bernie Sanders]

Excellent. All right, all right. So that's right. All that's right. So start off with, in one sense, we are the richest country in the history of the world. Right. We have enormous wealth. Yep. Is that wealth? Does that wealth apply to the vast majority of the people?

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely not.

[Bernie Sanders]

So unbelievably. And nobody talks about this. You ask me, we start off in the Democratic Party. The first thing you got to do is be honest with people and say, look, this is where we are at. We can blame whoever you want, but.

[Andrew Schulz]

This is where we are here.

[Bernie Sanders]

They don't acknowledge it. So you're living in a country where 60%. Let me underline that. 60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. Got it. I grew up in a family that lived paycheck to paycheck. All right. Where paycheck to paycheck is living under enormous stress. How am I going to pay the rent? What happens if my landlord raises my rent? What is my kid gets sick and I can't afford to the doctor? You know what happens if my car breaks down? You know that significant numbers of people in this country, you have money. You don't think about it, but if you don't have any money and your car breaks down and it's $1,000 bill to get it fixed.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yep.

[Bernie Sanders]

And you can't afford it, you tell me what happens.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yep.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. Bottom line is you got millions and millions of people, working class people, lower income people struggling to put food on the table. Okay. That is the first profound reality. And the question we've got to ask, why is that in the richest country on earth. All right, that's number one. Number two, you have a health care system. How's that health? Can you tell me? Got a great health care system in America. Well, what do you think?

[Alex Media]

I mean, if you can afford it, it's pretty good.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right. Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

I think that's a better way to look at it.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's exactly right. Yeah. All right. If you got the money, you got the best health care system in the world.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

But most people don't. How many nations do not guarantee health care to all people? As a human right. You guys know how many One major country, you live in it. So here's the insanity. We are spending twice as much per person on health care as most of the European countries guarantee free health care.

[Andrew Schulz]

Not to correct you, but yeah. We won't refuse care if you need it. Oh, wait, we will That's a little.

[Bernie Sanders]

Bit more subtle than that. Yeah. All right, let's say you have a $10,000 deductible. Okay. Not unusual. Okay. You got sick. What do you do? You don't have any money. You go to the doctor. I go to the.

[Andrew Schulz]

I go to the emergency room. I say I'm sick.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, but you go to the emergency room, but you're not. Like, it's not an emergency.

[Andrew Schulz]

They'll say, well, I'm just a little bit of sick. I just avoid it. That starts to fester. It gets worse.

[Bernie Sanders]

You've got it.

[Andrew Schulz]

And that actually probably causes more strain.

[Bernie Sanders]

It does. You know what else? It results in 60 some. The study from Yale was that 68,000 people a year die. Precisely. You go talk to the doctor. Next time you go to a doctor, say, are people coming into your office much sicker than they should be?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And the answer is, yes, they are.

[Andrew Schulz]

And that's just avoiding co pays.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, exactly. Okay, fair enough.

[Bernie Sanders]

So people do die by. By the large numbers. What about our educational system? Psychologists tell us that 0 through 4 most important years of emotional and intellectual development. Makes sense, right?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

Okay. So we must have a great childcare system. Right. Because we love our kids, we nurture our kids. We pay child care professionals.

[Andrew Schulz]

Really.

[Bernie Sanders]

We appreciate them and respect them. We pay childcare workers McDonald's wages.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. Yeah, it's shocking. It's also shocking how much competition there is to get your kid into, like, a favorable preschool.

[Bernie Sanders]

Right.

[Andrew Schulz]

Like, you have to start lobbying these preschools. At one year, my daughter is 15 months, and already now you're like, he's.

[Akash Singh]

Like a pharma company to get his kids.

[Andrew Schulz]

Exactly. Like, you're kind of walking in, you're meeting people, exchanging pleasantries, and it's all under this guise of, I hope they accept my kid.

[Bernie Sanders]

Right. Because you have a massive shortage.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And if people don't have any money, it is really difficult. And so I don't know what it costs here in New York City. You know, In Vermont costs 15, $20,000. So, you know, just imagine you have two kids.

[Andrew Schulz]

Forget it.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right. Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

But again, take a deep breath and say, okay, if we as a nation understand that that's the future of America. Yep. We want the best. You would say, okay, we're going to have really great teachers for them. We'll treat these teachers with respect, pay them well. They're doing really important work. Taking care of your daughter is important stuff.

[Andrew Schulz]

Agree.

[Bernie Sanders]

We don't public Schools. I was talking to a principal in Vermont, in Southern Vermont, they're starting teachers off at $32,000 a year. So kids, young people, graduate school, in debt. We're not getting the best and the brightest people. Do we respect you? Tell me, do we respect education in this country? No, we don't really.

[Andrew Schulz]

What do you mean by respect it like that?

[Bernie Sanders]

We say, man, you're going to be a teacher.

[Andrew Schulz]

Oh, educators. I don't think educators get close to enough respect.

[Akash Singh]

We give them a lot of platitudes. Oh, how noble is you? We don't treat them with respect.

[Andrew Schulz]

We don't feel the same way. As if they're like some finance bro or something like that.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

Just to that point, take a look at it. Harvard College, one of the best colleges in America. Something like 5% of the graduates will go into education, and they're not going into public education. Of course, 50% will go to Wall Street. They'll go to consulting.

[Andrew Schulz]

You make a great point, though. If college loans are so expensive, they don't even have a choice to go into.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

So is there. Is there some sort of system built in where, like, if you choose to go into education, that there's a way.

[Bernie Sanders]

That the loan will be forgiven?

[Andrew Schulz]

Something like that?

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, there are small programs.

[Andrew Schulz]

They have something like that. But that's a good idea. And again, I'm not making this up. I'm sure there was some system like that, but I imagine, like, maybe back in your day. No, that there was a version where, like, highly educated. Not highly educated in terms of master's program, but like, people that went to elite universities before they went and got their master's or their doctorate, spent some time educating. Was that commonplace?

[Bernie Sanders]

I'm not sure. I don't recall that.

[Andrew Schulz]

But, like, if there was a way to incentivize that, that might be right.

[Bernie Sanders]

Of course that's right. But what we have to do, give you an example, and what also bothers me is we don't look at what goes on around the rest of the world. You know, we kind of think that we're an island unto ourselves. We, you know, what we should be doing is what is working around the rest of the world. So you take a country like Finland, to be a teacher is a big deal in Finland. Wow, you're a teacher. It's like being a doctor in this country. You know, people respect them, they're well paid, they have a lot of autonomy, et cetera. But all that I'm saying here is that if you look at the fundamental institutions in America. Healthcare, education, childcare, distribution of wealth in America, we are not doing well and it's important that we acknowledge that. So, I mean, nobody, you talk about your very kind introductions and you know, talking about things that others don't talk about. How many people will talk about the reality that Elon Musk himself owns more wealth than the bottom 52% of American households? Is that a moral issue? Are we comfortable with that?

[Andrew Schulz]

Wow.

[Bernie Sanders]

It's a simple question. And there are some people say, hey, yeah, that's okay. It's a dog eat dog world. Lon's a brilliant guy, he's a hard working guy. Other billionaires start their own companies. They're really bold and brave. Fine, they deserve it. And if you are trying to get by on $40,000 a year, well, tough crap.

[Andrew Schulz]

How do you think Elon feels about it?

[Bernie Sanders]

I don't know. I've only talked to him many years ago, so I don't know him personally. But I'll tell you what I do think. I think there is a new breed of uber capitalists out there. Really believe, and this is, and they write about this as well, who really believe that they are superior human beings. You know, I'm telling you, this is the quote unquote high IQ guys who say, look, we work hard, we're smart, we have started these businesses.

[Andrew Schulz]

Did the victor go the spoils?

[Bernie Sanders]

Not only that, I think what that's. Yes, it's a dog eat dog world. I made it, you didn't make it. Hey, man, that's the way life goes. It's deeper than that. You have some writing on the right, on the far right, which really diminishes democracy and that really the smart and the wealthy and the powerful have the right to rule. So this is not just, oh, I want a tax break. There's nothing new about that. Yeah, this is. We have the right. It's the divine. You know, used to be the divine.

[Andrew Schulz]

Rights of kings or manifest destiny.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly, yes. All right. Back in the 19th century, the 1850s, you know, I am the king. God made my family king. And sorry you're starving to death, but that's the way life goes. God told me my family rules. There was some of that.

[Andrew Schulz]

So there's something about this that's quite interesting that I've seen lately, and it's actually not lately. There is a trend with the ultra wealthy which is upon their death, a lot of them have decided to give away their money. Right.

[Bernie Sanders]

Some of the money or some, some.

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay. Some of the most prolific. Right. And. Or as they get closer to death, they're like, our goal is to give away all our money. Okay.

[Bernie Sanders]

Which.

[Andrew Schulz]

Which seems to tell me that they think that there is an issue with them having all that money if they truly felt entitled to it. Like, it seems to me it's an admission that they agree with you. They're like, it's kind of wrong that we should just keep all this in our family. We should probably not have it now. They're not. It's almost like Benjamin Franklin freeing his slaves on his death. He's like, you know, he's like. He's like, this is wrong, but I don't want to leave it until, you know, I might need some. And my back hurts, but what do I do? So when you see billionaires do that, Right. Or this elite class that you're talking about do that, is there a part of you that goes, you're getting it. Why don't you do that maybe 40 years earlier?

[Bernie Sanders]

No.

[Andrew Schulz]

Okay.

[Bernie Sanders]

Look, I just. I mean, if they're. These guys are very competitive, they're very smart, they're very innovative, hard working, and I really think it's very competitive. And I think they want it all. I really do. And I think what is. If you stop for a moment and I hope we can talk a little bit about a corrupt campaign finance system.

[Andrew Schulz]

Please. Yes.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. Getting back to the Democrats and the Republicans and all that stuff. Understand, I mean, I'm in the middle of it. I work in Washington, D.C. so you're just using Musk again as an example. He's only one. I don't mean to pick on Mr. Musk, but the guy contributes because of a broken and corrupt campaign finance system which as a result of Citizens United, Supreme Court decision, familiar with that, allows billionaires to start super PACs.

[Andrew Schulz]

Can you really quickly just tell the audience exactly what it is? Because I feel like we hear these words like Citizens United, and a lot of people, like, we just can't.

[Akash Singh]

Super PACs.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. We just kind of pretend that we know what it is.

[Bernie Sanders]

But we have the First Amendment that says you have freedom of speech.

[Andrew Schulz]

Of course.

[Bernie Sanders]

Okay, so wealthy individuals in a case called Citizens United, I don't remember all the details, basically said, look, we had at that point, Citizens United, I think is 15, 20 years. That decision from the Supreme Court. Supreme Court decision. So people go into the court and say, look, I have a First Amendment right to tell the people of America how I feel about an issue or a candidate.

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

I don't like Andrew And I want to spend $20 million on television ads telling people what a jerk he is. Okay.

[Andrew Schulz]

Making me feel like Jamal Bowman.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, that's another story. All right. And the supricour says, no, we have campaign finance. There's campaign finance law which limits the amount of money you can spend on a campaign.

[Andrew Schulz]

So there's already a law in place.

[Bernie Sanders]

There's a law in place.

[Andrew Schulz]

Legislation said you cannot do.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's what. That's what Citizens United did. It said, the Supreme Court ruled that billionaires. That advertising is freedom of speech. And I can. You can't limit my speech. So if I want to spend $100 million on TV ads, I have the right to do it. They say you're right. So the issue is democracy versus billionaires being able to spend unlimited sums of money. Supreme Court went with that. And then the form it took was what's called a super pac. You saw an organization, Americans for Freedom. Okay. And billionaires could put as much money as they want into that. That organization then runs ads on television. It does political stuff. That's what it's about. So bottom line, though, most importantly, is if you are a billionaire, you can put as much money as you want into a super PAC. And in Musk's case, he spent $270 million to help Donald Trump get elected president. Do Democrats have billionaires putting money into super PACs? Absolutely. All right, what does that mean in real life? This is what it means. Right now we're dealing with a bill called the reconciliation bill. It's a fancy Washington term for a very big bill which will have a lot of stuff in it. In any case, if a Republican stands up and says, you know what? In the House of Representatives, I don't like this bill because, you know, it's giving tax breaks to very wealthy people, and it's going to cut Medicaid and cut nutrition programs. It's a bad bill. What do you think happens the day after that? Republican stands up and says he opposes.

[Andrew Schulz]

Those super PACs organize and they primary out. You got it.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

Now, and how effective is that?

[Bernie Sanders]

It is enormously effective. If you have. Sure. Right now you're Republican.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

You got to mean you. I mean, go viral. All right, so you have two elements. Trump is enormously popular within the Republican base. Yeah. Elon Musk has unlimited sums of money. Right.

[Andrew Schulz]

Double whammy.

[Bernie Sanders]

Double whammy. So it is very hard for any Republican to sustain.

[Andrew Schulz]

To stand up and authentically speak their mind. All right, guys, take a break for a second. Talking about these billionaires, you know, let's find a way where we can get invested in the system that's made them incredibly wealthy. You don't need to be rich. That's the reality. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money that you've got right now. Even if all you've got is spare change, you don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all the markets ups and downs. And they're going to put that together for you, okay? They're going to take out all that frustration of trying to pick the winners and the stocks. You're not doing this on a day to day basis. You're not trying to compete with these hedge funds which are doing is investing in your future, letting compound interest work to you over decades, okay? That's the idea of investment. Everything else is gambling. So I'm telling you right now, if you want to sign up and you want to join over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns plus Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment. That offer is [e-mail] flagrant that is a C O R-N S.com flagrant to get your $20 bonus investment today. Remember, this is a paid non client endorsement. Compensation provides incentives to positively promote Acorns here to compensation provide investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures acorns.com flavor all right guys, let's take a break from this incredibly thoughtful and important discussion about our futures to talk about Hardcock. I want to let you guys know I realize how absolutely absurd and ridiculous it is to have this ad. The oligarchs don't want you to have hard dick. No, that's facts. The oligarchs want all the hard dick for them, okay? But it shouldn't just be for them, should be for all of us. And the thing that's going to bring it to you is Blue Chew. Blue Chew. Same active ingredient that's inside Siaga, Vialis, Viagra, Seattle, whatever. We don't even mention them, okay? We don't even mention them, okay? All the blood is in my dick right now. I can't even think. Bluetooth.com you're gonna get your first month's free. All you gotta do is pay $5 shipping.

[Akash Singh]

Free healthcare.

[Andrew Schulz]

Free healthcare right there. That's what Bluetooth is watching.

[Bernie Sanders]

Okay? All you gotta do is go to.

[Andrew Schulz]

Bluetooth.Com use the promo code flagrant. You pay that $5 shipping and they're gonna send you your. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluechew for sponsoring this.

[Akash Singh]

Podcast, this one in particular.

[Andrew Schulz]

Let's get back to the show.

[Bernie Sanders]

Give you another example, because I don't want to. I'm an independent. Right. Caucus with the Democrats. Democrats are better than the Republicans to my mind, but Democrats. All right. I happen to believe that providing more military aid to Netanyahu's extreme right wing government to do the horrible things that are going on in Gaza right now, as you may know as we speak. It's horrible.

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

Children are starving.

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

Malnutrition growing and all that stuff. All right. I introduced legislation to say we're going to block the sale of certain military weaponry to Israel. I got 15 Democrats to support me. I got zero Republicans. Why do you think more Democrats didn't support me? Because the Democrats support me. They will have to take on apec. You mentioned Jamal Bowman. Yeah, well, that's what you're talking about.

[Andrew Schulz]

They spoke. Would they spend like 15 or 20 million to get him out of there? This is up in Westchester too.

[Bernie Sanders]

You got it. Bush in Missouri. St. Louis was defeated. A woman in state of Washington, Pramila Jaipal Sisler Brand. So if you want to speak out against Netanyahu's government and oppose military sales. Aipac, which is also funded by billionaires who support both Democrats, Republicans. So we'll go after.

[Andrew Schulz]

How can they do this effectively? Like how can they sway a vote if the people don't support the idea?

[Bernie Sanders]

You know how you do it?

[Andrew Schulz]

How?

[Bernie Sanders]

This is rather amazing. Great question. You don't talk about the issue.

[Andrew Schulz]

Oh, you make that person so radioactive.

[Bernie Sanders]

They didn't when they went after. I was up in Westchester.

[Andrew Schulz]

Now you're undermining the Democratic process.

[Bernie Sanders]

I was up in Westchester campaigning for Bowman.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And I supported Cori Bush as well, to the best of my knowledge. And I'm 99% sure I'm right. They didn't say one word about Israel. The argument was he's a bad Democrat or whatever. Your usual negative advertising didn't talk about Israel.

[Andrew Schulz]

So this is quite interesting because if a group like if a SuperPAC was honest about what they were raising against, for example, they spent that 20 million specifically defending their position on Israel. I wonder if we would be more amenable to that because that is the issue at hand. Instead of using funding to make this person radioactive, which they might not exactly Be undermining. It is duplicitous. Undermining the people. And that's where you remove.

[Bernie Sanders]

Wow, that's a very good point. All right. I mean, I think they should not have unlimited amounts of money. But your point is, hey, if that's what your goal is, be honest about it.

[Andrew Schulz]

So, and I say this with you because you raise money not from a few billionaires, but like you guys raised, what is it, Sunrise and then Democrat justice or Democracy Justice? There are these groups that are a little different than super PACs, but they are raising money on a grassroots level. But you are being honest about what you're raising money for.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly. You're right. So your point is, right, if somebody says, look, I love Netanyahu, I think they're doing a good job. You oppose him, and I'm going to oppose you for that reason. Yes, being honest about it.

[Andrew Schulz]

Exactly.

[Bernie Sanders]

But you know what? I think one of the reasons they don't do that. You know why?

[Andrew Schulz]

Because it wouldn't be supported.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right.

[Akash Singh]

So is there any solution beyond getting Citizens United overturned by another.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's a great question, man. Thank you. You're asking really good questions. We're working on it right now. And here is, without going too much into the weeds, we need to end Citizens United. That's not gonna happen tomorrow. But what you can do is, within the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, you can have rules that says you wanna be the candidate of the Democratic Party. Well, guess what? You tell. And this is again, tricky, you tell that you announce very clearly you do not want any Super PACs supporting you. And by the way, if Super PACs support you, for every dollar they put in, we're gonna put another dollar in supporting you. There are things you can do.

[Andrew Schulz]

We're going to run ads, we're going to offset it.

[Akash Singh]

I'm sorry, I have to ask this. I'm sorry, I hate to interrupt you. We have a question. We want to ask about what happened to you in 2016 with this Bernie Bros. Movement, where your. Your followers are seeing. They have a racism problem, misogyny problem. Do you think that's a super PAC thing behind that?

[Bernie Sanders]

No, it was the Democratic establishment. That was the.

[Akash Singh]

Okay.

[Bernie Sanders]

You know, that was just. They were sitting there. We had a lot of young people, we had people of color, and. And they create this kind of myth with the help of the corporate media and all that stuff.

[Andrew Schulz]

You know what's kind of interesting to that note is during this election, the podcast space, which the Democrats largely avoided, they feel had some influence in the election, and they started to label us the podcast Bros and said that we were sexist and we were racist and bigoted. It's almost like it's the exact same strategy to get you out of there.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah. That's what the liberal elite China does. They run away. Look, getting again, I would hope that everybody who's watching the program is that we as a nation have got to end all forms of bigotry. Right? Yes. That I start off as a basic assumption.

[Andrew Schulz]

Unless it's to your close friends. Right.

[Bernie Sanders]

Whether it's racism or sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, whatever it is. But. And you know, liberal Democrats talk about that all the time. And then you get to what we call identity politics. You're black, you're wonderful, you're tremendous, you're gay, you're the greatest human being on earth.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And rather than say, what do you stand for?

[Andrew Schulz]

Exactly.

[Bernie Sanders]

You're gay. That's fine. Who cares? But what do you stand for?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

You know, is every gay person brilliant and wonderful and great? No, of course not. Everybody's a human being.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

So the issue is what you stand for. Which gets you back to what we discussed earlier. Class politics, in the sense of which side are you on? Are you gonna stand with working families? Are you gonna raise the minimum wage to a living wage or not? Are you gonna guarantee fight to guarantee healthcare to all people or not? Are you gonna demand that the wealthiest people start paying their fair share of taxes? Or not. Or not. Those are the issues. And no one cares what color you are, you know, what your gender is, et cetera, et cetera.

[Eddie]

I'm sorry. I do feel like vowing to stop. Taking super PAC money is a great first step. Honest politician. You put up a bill to stop the sale of weapons to Israel, and there's no amount of money AIPAC can spend to not get you reelected. And I feel if we had more honest politicians.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Okay, then.

[Andrew Schulz]

Courageous ones.

[Bernie Sanders]

You're raised. This is a very. This is a good discussion.

[Andrew Schulz]

Why are you shocked?

[Bernie Sanders]

I'm shocked. They were asking you questions that are not often asking.

[Andrew Schulz]

This episode has been promoted by Walter o' Malley's foundation.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. It's a painful issue. I mean, because I deal with it every day in Washington. This is. You're running for office. If you in your heart understand what's going on in Gaza right now. And again, it's almost painful to talk about it. The United States is complicit in the starvation of children as we speak right this moment. Okay. Mass malnutrition, et cetera. And you say, that's wrong, man. And I'm not going to give Netanyahu another nickel. But I know that the day I say that AIPAC is going to pour a huge amount of money. So what's the choice you have? The choice you say you have is, okay, they're going to throw a lot of money at me. But I'm going to make this a major campaign issue. I ain't going to run away from it. What do we stand for as a nation? And I'll tell you something, getting back to the Democratic Party, what the Democratic establishment people said, well, Gaza, yeah, it's an issue out there. It's not the main issue. It's not the pocketbook issues. You know, more important. Healthcare is more important. But you know what I'll tell you, this is my own view, is what people have a sense, consciously and unconsciously, if you are turning your back on starving children in Gaza, why the hell am I going to trust you on anything?

[Andrew Schulz]

It's a great point.

[Bernie Sanders]

Is that a fair point?

[Andrew Schulz]

I think it's a very fair point. I think if you turn your back on starvation in general, especially if you're complicit in it, I think that's where a lot of. At least voters feel like there is some sort of separation. And if you make them realize that there isn't. Right. If we are protecting or funding or rewarding this in any way.

[Bernie Sanders]

You got it.

[Andrew Schulz]

Then you are complicit. But I think voters feel like they're too derivative from it. They're like, oh, that's not exactly what I'm voting for. And I do think. Not to undermine those other issues, but like, I do think the. What is it? The kitchen table issues, or. I think those are incredibly important. And I think the more that people are struggling internally, internally in our country, the less of a concern we have externally. So it is a tough balance. If you make your entire campaign about Gaza, that people in whatever small area that you represent will go, hey, listen, that's horrible. It's happening over here. We're struggling, too, so don't forget about us.

[Bernie Sanders]

You got it. Right.

[Andrew Schulz]

So how do you balance those two?

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, that's what politics is about. I mean, you may.

[Andrew Schulz]

I feel like you've done it well. I feel like you talk way more about internal issues.

[Bernie Sanders]

I do.

[Andrew Schulz]

Than external ones.

[Bernie Sanders]

I do. And the, you know, Gaza then becomes a moral issue that you cannot run away from. But at the end of the day, you know, we have to Ask ourselves, why are we are where we are? And it's a funny thing. I was talking to my staff when we were driving in today and reviewing. There was a. I think it was Pew. Pew. They do these polls. Yeah, they do things. And they asked the question, I may. May be a little bit wrong here, but they said they do it and they say, are you better off today than somebody in your situation, middle class, whatever you are. Wore 40 years ago? That's the question.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

What do you think the answer was?

[Andrew Schulz]

This is an insane statistic. I've seen this research. They're like that people are making inflation adjusted the same wage that they were making 50 years ago.

[Bernie Sanders]

I don't mean that. I don't even mean statistically. I'm going beyond that.

[Akash Singh]

Are you better off than somebody?

[Bernie Sanders]

How do you feel? Do you think somebody in your condition Was living better 40 years ago? Are you living better today?

[Akash Singh]

I think the average person would say no.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right. That's an astonishing. All right, so let's go through the economics of it. Then we'll go through the broader issue. Economics. This is an amazing fact. And again, it's something that people don't talk about because you got a lot of the Republicans want to make change. It's almost always the wrong kind of change. And the Democrats want to maintain the status quo, which is unsustainable.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's the choices that people have.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right.

[Andrew Schulz]

But sometimes if the status quo is horrible, any change looks better. And I think.

[Bernie Sanders]

Which is why Donald Trump is the president.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's what I think a lot of Democrats don't understand. Like, you've been very critical. We're lifelong. I can't speak to everybody, but like, I grew up in New York City. I'm a lifelong Democrat. And we were very critical of the Democratic establishment. And it was through the lens of, hey, you're not addressing the concern to the people. And by doing that, we were framed in a way that I think, and we continue to be framed a way. I think it was very unfair.

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, you don't know nothing about being president. I don't feel sorry.

[Andrew Schulz]

It's just a refusal to look in the mirror.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, here's a fact. This is an astounding fact. Nobody talks about it. And this is the other thing. More important than anything else is people want to say, do you know what is going on in my life?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And if you don't talk about that reality, no one's going to trust you at all.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, fact.

[Andrew Schulz]

But let's call people Latinx, Bernie.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right. That's right. That's the issue. All right. Right. Over the last 52 years, I may be off a little bit here, but more or less I'm right. Over the last 52 years, there's been an explosion in technology. Right. This stuff that we're looking at did not exist. Every worker in America is more productive, correct?

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

Okay. Computers, et cetera. How much have real inflation accounted for? Wages increased in that 52 year time. Obviously, with all of that worker productivity increasing, we must be making a lot more money, right?

[Andrew Schulz]

Nothing.

[Akash Singh]

Zero percent, zero.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah. In fact, there's an argument's a little bit less in real housing costs, healthcare.

[Andrew Schulz]

Because TVs are cheaper. You think that you're living a more.

[Bernie Sanders]

Luxurious lifestyle, but take a deep breath about that fact. What does it say all? Meanwhile, during that same period of time, there was a massive, according to RAND Corporation, not a socialist organization, there was a massive transfer of wealth from the bottom 90% to the top 1%.

[Andrew Schulz]

But Bernie, surely they're paying taxes on all that new profits they're making. Right?

[Bernie Sanders]

Right. That is getting back to this important issue which I kind of started. You know, what is reality? So if you're the average worker out there. Yes, sir. You're seeing people on the top getting phenomenally rich, you're no better off. And by the way, the likelihood is your kid is going to be worse off than you are. Right? Yeah, that's a tough reality. Why is that? Who the hell is he even talking about? A, why is that? And B, what the hell do we do about it?

[Akash Singh]

I think that was the appeal of Trump, is he appeared to be talking to us.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Akash Singh]

Whereas Democrats are kind of condescending and ignoring it.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, essentially Democrats say status quo is working. Okay, we're gonna tinker around the edge. Just make a little bit of a change here. Trump says the whole goddamn system is broken, but he said, I will fix it. Well, his solutions will make it worse. But he at least acknowledged that the system is broken. Democrats often don't.

[Andrew Schulz]

They don't acknowledge it. And there's a lot of finger wagging. Or at least recently. I didn't feel that when I was growing up, but at least recently there's a lot of finger. And then there's almost like this detachment from working class people, which is really sad because you'll see them echo certain sentiments. They'll be, look at the Biden stock market. And it's like, guys, 50% of Americans aren't even invested in the fucking stock market. Like, you're so detached from working class people, you don't even know the talking points to make them feel good about the economy.

[Akash Singh]

You can't even lie to them properly.

[Andrew Schulz]

So what happened? How do we get here with the Democrat establishment?

[Akash Singh]

It's a great question.

[Bernie Sanders]

And the answer is that we do know, and that is during the 70s, 60s, Democrats caught on and you could raise a lot of money from wealthy people, people. So it gets back to campaign financing and all that stuff. So you got a Democratic establishment now which is funded by wealthy people. You have consultants who are really way out of touch with reality, who make a whole lot of money in campaigns and working class is ignored. Donald Trump comes along and says, I care about you, which was a lie.

[Andrew Schulz]

So I don't know if that's a lie. I'd give pushback on that. I think that it has to be proven that it's a lie.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, I'll prove it. Yes.

[Eddie]

Thank you.

[Andrew Schulz]

And you're right. I could look through it through rose colored glasses. But the idea, I think that when people are struggling, anybody who goes, hey, I'm gonna help you out, like, I'm sure when Obama. I remember Obama, I remember the impact of Obama changed. He ran on reform and he ran on hope, right?

[Bernie Sanders]

Yes.

[Andrew Schulz]

He ran on this idea of we're gonna make it better for you, instead of. Kamala seemed to run on this idea, like, hey, it's good we're gon keep doing the exact same thing, which is a losing strategy.

[Bernie Sanders]

You got it. So that was her bloody consult. I mean, I know Kamala. She's a friend. She's very smart. That was what her bloody consultants told her to say. I begged them. I'm just between you, why can't she.

[Andrew Schulz]

Push back, like, at a certain.

[Bernie Sanders]

Like, you're right, look, there's no argument.

[Andrew Schulz]

This is the problem I think a lot of voters had is like they didn't even know if it was her. We didn't even know if Biden was president. We didn't even know if these were her talking points. And we felt that over the last four elections, Democrats, we felt that we didn't have a say on who could be president. We talk a lot about the Republicans being autocrats and oligarchs and taking over democracy, but from the Democrat perspective, and I'm a lifelong Democrat, I felt like the Democratic Party completely removed the Democratic process from its constituents and they, I think they need to have some accountability of that.

[Bernie Sanders]

No argument here.

[Andrew Schulz]

I donated for you. I, I mean, I wanted you to, like, 2016. I was like, this is gonna happen. This guy's gonna do it. And it felt like they, it felt like they stole it from me. And I'll be honest, it broke my heart when you, when you supported him.

[Bernie Sanders]

Look, but you have, in the world that I live in, you got a choice. And I mean, a lot of people, including my wife, agree with you, but, you know, you're down to a choice. Is it going to be Hillary Clinton or is it going to be. Be Donald Trump? Not a great choice, but it ended.

[Andrew Schulz]

Up being him anyway. So why don't we burn it down?

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, because it's easy to say. Burning it down means that children are not going to have, you know, food to eat, that the schools will deteriorate, people will not have health care. I got it. And I, you know, I'm an elected official. I got to represent the people.

[Andrew Schulz]

That's fair.

[Bernie Sanders]

And I can't turn my back on.

[Akash Singh]

But then could, could we not also say if ostensibly there hasn't been a fair primary for The Democrats since 2008, are they not also a threat to democracy? We often hear, fair enough.

[Bernie Sanders]

That is. Yeah, I'm not going to argue with that point, and that's why I'm proudly an independent. What we're trying to do now, and I will just reinforce the point both of you made, the hatred that we felt in 2016, 2020, from the Democratic establishment, give you an example, we would do rallies and we had thousands of people, often young people, people of color coming out, working class people coming out, they were great. And then we go to Democratic Party events. There'll be a few hundred people, mostly older, whiter, wealthier. And you saw the clash and they, the establishment did not want to open the door. They hated the idea. But all these people whose hands were a little bit dirty, who didn't have PhDs or weren't wealthy, imagine walking in. It's my party, man. You ain't getting in. Yes, we will fight you in the most ruthless ways that we can can. And that, that's the, the struggle. Are they going to open the door or are they prepared to lose elections literally and maintain, go down with the Titanic? So that is, do you think you're.

[Andrew Schulz]

Forcing the door open? Because it seems like that's what's happening right now.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly what we are trying to do right now. In the last month, we have enlisted some, I think, latest 7,000 people who are prepared to run for office, from school board to Congress Wow. You know, not all of them will run, but they've shown interest. There are training programs that we're undertaking with other groups right now. And by the way, a good percentage of them don't want to run as Democrats. They want to run as independents.

[Akash Singh]

So do you sense from the Democratic establishment that they're more willing to listen to people like you, or are you guys just going to have to kind of take it by force. Force and win election?

[Bernie Sanders]

Are they? Well, I don't want to. Are they more willing to listen to me? No, they're not.

[Andrew Schulz]

But they'll take on some of your ideas for salvation. They realize they can't ignore it.

[Bernie Sanders]

Orphan lip service.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yes, they will. They will take on the ideas. But these guys, they want to protect what they have. So your question is a. You would say, look, okay, and by the way, Joe Biden, to his credit, I know everyone beats up on Biden, but what Biden did, unlike Hillary Clinton did, is he and his people saw that we had a movement. And what he did is was prepared to put together task forces. We sat down with their people, and we brought people like Alexandria, Ocasio, Cortez, and some of the strongest we are sit down with, you know, establish and come up with a program. A lot of what went into the American rescue plan, which got us out of the COVID pandemic economically pretty well, and some other this stuff. So the Biden people were more open to sitting down, understanding that we represented millions of people than other people in the past or are right now.

[Eddie]

I feel like most politicians are swayed by money and lobbyists, and that, like, I wouldn't say dictates, but it definitely influences their decisions. You feel like one of the last honest politicians. Can you tell me what other politicians have the Bernie stamp of approval that they're like, honest?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. Who's not born?

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, there are a number of people. Look, one of the successes that we've had that doesn't get a lot of attention is in the House of Representatives now. There are dozens and dozens of young, often people of color, often women, who are there. I mean, Alexandria is maybe the best known, but Pramila Jayapal from Washington State, Greg Kazar from Texas, Mark Buchan from Wisconsin, and there are many of them, and they're doing a great job. And they don't take corporate PAC money, and they stand up for the working class.

[Andrew Schulz]

By the way, guys, this episode has also been brought to you by Stake. Okay? Stake is the leader in global betting in US Social casinos, bet on top sports and political events. And use the promo code flagrant for your welcome bonus. Okay. We know we got the NBA playoffs cooking right now. You know that we're going to have some elections coming up. If you want to get busy and get some skin in the game, you know where to do it. Stake has got your back. Remember, use that promo code flagrant for that welcome bonus. Now let's get back to the show.

[Alex Media]

Another form of, I think, corruption that many Americans see within both Democrats and Republicans is this idea of the stock trading. And they see that as kind of like another way to, you know, take some money off the top. And people have talked about Nancy Pelosi and her husband, for example, but I think it happens across the aisle. What is your take on that issue and is there a way to curb that, or is it.

[Bernie Sanders]

I don't own any stocks, so it's not my thing to follow it. I'm not sure that that has, you know, if the implication is that members of Congress are aware of what's gonna happen tomorrow and are putting their stock, I'm not sure how. I'm sure it happens. I don't know how prevalent it is. But what was interesting, by the way, on that subject, as you may recall, just was it a month ago where Donald Trump said something like, what today is a great day to invest and hold. He changes his views on the tariffs. Do I think inside his loose something about that?

[Andrew Schulz]

Probably that felt awesome when he did that. Yeah, I felt like a politician. Like I was privy to the information that I feel like Pelosi and Schumer privy to. And the Republicans do it as well. I don't want to make it a partisan issue, but like it felt, I think a lot of Americans, instead of rejecting this insider trading idea, finally felt like the train wasn't running away without them.

[Akash Singh]

We were on the inside exactly where.

[Andrew Schulz]

It would be great if nobody did it. Like that's the ideal situation. But I think a lot of times what we've seen is like this great frustration with government, and then whoever pulls the veil off, there is an appreciation of it rather than a rejection that there is corruption in general.

[Bernie Sanders]

Got it. All right, Let me ask you a question. All right. Do we talk enough about where we want to be as a nation? And I think culturally what Trump represents to me, he lies all of the time. He is interested in himself and more money. And almost what bothers me is that is the kind of culture that we advertise to young people. This is the world. If you lie and you cheat and you steal, you sue, someday can be a multi billionaire. Is that where we want to go as a nation? And what's the alternative?

[Andrew Schulz]

Well, I think the most important question is what do we want as Americans? And I think it is hard to. I think the way that we teach it in school is that people came here for freedom. And I think if we were being more honest, I think people came here for money. And I think it was freedom from a lack of opportunity. There was freedom from oppression. In other words, my mother is an immigrant, but I think.

[Bernie Sanders]

Where'd your mom come from?

[Andrew Schulz]

Scotland. So, you know, she didn't have maybe a lot of opportunity. Stopped going to school, 15 years old, came here to America, started a dance school, and she had immense success here. Teaching dance lessons in New York City. Who would have thought? But I think the reality is, is that opportunity. I think Akash's family also came here for financial opportunity.

[Bernie Sanders]

My family is owned.

[Andrew Schulz]

Exactly. And I think so. I think it's very hard to tear that away. I think that the fuel of the American machine is this idea, the delusional hope that one day we'll all be millionaires.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, but is. Is. Is.

[Andrew Schulz]

I don't know if that's right, but I think that is.

[Bernie Sanders]

Look, I think this city is. Was. Is what? The melting pot city, in a sense. Where my father came from, Poland. He dropped out of school at 14. He came here at the age of 17. Really incredible. Without any money. All right. And that's the story of millions and millions of families. We all can same different ways. But what I'm getting at is should the goal. And everybody wants to live comfortably, right?

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

Nothing to be ashamed of. You want to. You have to worry about whether you can pay the electric bill. You want.

[Andrew Schulz]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

Kids get an education. All right. But does the culture have to suggest that to be a success you need to be a billionaire? What I'm getting at is, you know, I'm the former chairman of a committee that deals with all this stuff. So we don't have a enough doctors in America. We don't have nurses, we don't have enough dentists. I brought in several billion dollars into the state of Vermont for infrastructure to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. We did that all over America. We don't have enough construction workers who make good money, by the way, whether you're a sheet metal worker, you want to be a welder, you want to be an electrician, you want to be a. We don't have enough. What I'm saying is I would like to see Us say you want to make America great. Good. Dude, I want to have doctors. Doctors. So you could, you don't have to wait two months to get it to a doctor's office.

[Andrew Schulz]

This is, this is, this is, it's so important. It's like, what does the cultural award. I think ocacs can speak on this. Maybe the best of all of us. Like, within your community, what is the highest doctor? It's doctor. Doctors will make the most money. There are hedge fund managers that make more money, but if they're in a group, like you speak to it.

[Akash Singh]

If you're in the family gathering, there's an honor. I get to brag to my, my parents get to brag to other friends. My son is a doctor. And, and I don't even know if it's about helping people. But for whatever reason, that is the thing.

[Andrew Schulz]

It's not the most lucrative profession.

[Akash Singh]

No, it's not.

[Andrew Schulz]

But it garners the most.

[Akash Singh]

My dad told me, he was like, I'm really proud of your success. I'm proud with how far you've come. I want you to know, no matter how famous you get, I would still rather you be a doctor.

[Andrew Schulz]

And so maybe there's a version of that in America where like, obviously we want financial success, but can we reward some of these other positions as they offer societal utility?

[Bernie Sanders]

Right. And then you go even deeper than that. And that is, I mean, now you're going really deep is you get into the issue of human happiness. All right, These guys sit in Wall street, they get up, you know, four o' clock in the morning to see what the stock market is in Japan and they're doing. And they make zillions of dollars doing crap. I mean, what's the usefulness of the society?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

And you got a kindergarten teacher here in New York City who is nurturing and making life better for some low income kid, right? Yeah. Right. Who's doing more important work?

[Andrew Schulz]

I mean, the teacher, without a doubt. There's no question. The problem is that we're not rewarding those positions. And if we did reward them, if it was this great honor to hold these certain positions, which I still do think doctor is, but I think they're few and far between. And first of all, doctors make a lot of money, so let's not act like they don't. But I think they're few and far between positions that don't make a lot of money but still command immense respect in America. I do think that we are tied to the dollar, unfortunately. And how do we change that.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's exactly the question I want. I mean, again, getting to the. It seems to me, you know, you talk to. I'll tell you. So we do a thing in Vermont. It's called the Burning Bus. It's a newsletter that goes out. Did a interview with a woman who works in a nursing home. God knows what she makes. It's not a lot of money. And she talked about her satisfaction, helping seniors, fixing their hair, getting their nails and all that stuff. And the pride. She's a religious woman. Okay. And the pride she had and how she feels good. I want us to feel good about doing good stuff.

[Akash Singh]

Yes.

[Bernie Sanders]

Not just ripping off other people. I don't want to be.

[Andrew Schulz]

But the problem.

[Akash Singh]

The problem is much deeper than a Donald Trump to give some pushback.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yes, I agree.

[Akash Singh]

Gordon Gekko is celebrated as a hero.

[Andrew Schulz]

Exactly.

[Akash Singh]

I grew up listening to rap. I still love it. But it's all about. About excess wealth, being rich, being billionaires. It doesn't matter how you get the money. Doesn't matter if it's honorable or not.

[Andrew Schulz]

When we were growing up, there was a million movies about. And there's a lot of criticisms for this, but, like, some teacher who's well off that goes to the hood and really commits to, like, revitalizing that school. Right. And initially the teacher's not accepted, but then the teachers see that. So the kids see that he's like, a good. Or she's like a good force on humanity, and it's really rewarded. I don't think they make those movies anymore. I think it's a bunch of Gordon Geckos. Right. And. Or every Marvel movie is about, you know, in Elon Musk's, you know, character type, which is, you know, Iron man is Tony Stark. So. So, yeah, the culture is clearly rewarding whatever makes you money. And I don't want us to completely get away from that. I think, like, success is important. Ingenuity and innovation is important.

[Bernie Sanders]

Absolutely.

[Andrew Schulz]

But there has to be something else that's important.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

[Andrew Schulz]

So how do we do that? How do we instill that? That's the kind of discussion girls got to start sleeping with teachers.

[Bernie Sanders]

This is the kind of discussion we need to have as a trainer. Gets back to this thing, you know, this. This blew me away, this poll about whether you feel better off. And it's. We got diverted a little bit. It's not just economics, whether you're better off. Inflation counted for dollars today than you were 40 or 50 years ago. It's more than that it's. Do you feel part of your community? All right, Were you feeling isolated and alone and you're spending half your time in the goddamn cells. Yeah, right. And, you know, how do we. I mean, the, The. The. The craziness is we have more potential wealth now with all of this exploding technology, so we don't have to be working 50 or 60 hours a week. We can be thinking about, how do we. What does it mean? A. Should we be dealing with the economic issues? Should everybody have a decent standard of living in America? Can we do that? Answer is, yeah, we can.

[Alex Media]

Do you think it's realistic to effectively tax billionaires in a way that still encourages innovation within America?

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, I do. I happen to believe that we should not have billionaires. All right, so you want to get rich? Fine, get rich. How much do you need? All right, yeah, so I would have.

[Akash Singh]

A very steep 999 million, something like that.

[Bernie Sanders]

You want to build? All right, maybe 900 million. But we want to change the culture around, you know, I talked to Bill Gates, did an interview with him on Netflix, and I said, bill, you know, you're worth a zillion dollars. Were you motivated as a young man with the dream that you become a zillion? He said, no, I love computer programming. That's what I loved. That was his passion. Then he ended up making huge amounts of money. So I don't begrudge people making a lot of money, but I think there should be a limit to how much you make. And also then getting back to economics is we are looking at a nation today not only with massive income and wealth inequality, but incredible concentration of ownership. Want to hear a fact?

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

You got three Wall street investment firms. BlackRock, State street, and Vanguard.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yes.

[Bernie Sanders]

Who combined. Combined are the major stockholders and 95% of corporations in America. Go look at your favorite corporations, see who owns. Owns it. It'll be one of those who's a major stockholder? They'll be there. What do you think about that? That's. That's power.

[Andrew Schulz]

What is the impact of that? Like, how does. How is that power wheel?

[Bernie Sanders]

It means that you have three entities with boards of directors who have significant control over every major corporation in America. What that means is, do they stay in America? Do they go abroad? Do they pay their workers a decent wage? Or they treat them like crap. That's what it means in normal. Promise power in the hands of 3 Wall Street.

[Akash Singh]

So what's interesting is when you start to get any kind of money, they'll tell you, put your Money in a vanguard.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

Is that good for America? Because it seems like to us, oh, this is how you get to participate in capitalism.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's right. That's your retirement goes into vanguard. But that's one thing. But the other thing is that vanguard, State street and blackrock have enormous economic power, which is not a good thing.

[Andrew Schulz]

And they're not using it benevolent.

[Bernie Sanders]

They're not. They're using it to make more money. So the issue is that we got to take a look at is we got to ask questions that I got to tell you in Congress is very rarely asked and in the media is very rarely asked. In the wealthiest country on Earth, should everybody have a decent standard of living Americans, yes or no? Some people will say no. Hey, it's a tough world out there. I'm sorry, I'm smarter than you. I work harder. My dad gave me a lot of money. You don't to have have it tough crap.

[Akash Singh]

At least they're honest.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, that's what some people will say. Yeah. Most people will not say that. Right. Most people say, you know what? Yeah, I, I don't think anybody should be sleeping out on the street. I don't think anybody should not be able to go to a doctor. That's what most people say. Okay, what does that mean in terms of practical politics? It means, among other things, that we need an educational system which is very strong, from childcare to graduate school. All right. Right. You want to become. Your dad wants you to become a doctor. But if you want to become a doctor, you may leave school half a million dollars in debt. You know that?

[Akash Singh]

Absolutely.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. Does that make sense? We need doctors. Should we, as the richest nation on earth, say, good, you want to be a doctor, you want to be a nurse, you want to be a dentist? We need you desperately, tuition free. We love you. Yeah, do it because we desperately subsidize it. Yeah.

[Andrew Schulz]

Subsidize the job. Absolutely. If we need more engineers, don't make the education so expensive.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

We need it and we need more engineers. And also, like, I wonder if there's a certain point in time where, where if you squeeze the consumers of your products so much, they won't be able to buy them. So isn't it in the best interest of these, you know, you refer to them as oligarchs, but is it the best interest of these oligarchs that they make sure that life is fruitful enough for the people that are going to consume their products?

[Bernie Sanders]

That's a very good question. And I'm not Sure. That that's a legitimate question. I think. A right question. I don't know that they think about it that way.

[Andrew Schulz]

They talk about the markets all the time, but it's like the market's going to fucking decide for you, buddy. And eventually they're going to realize we can't buy a new iPhone every year. Year. And then your iPhone sales tank. Or we could create a system that in some way is. I don't know. And again, this is way smarter than me to figure out, but like that in some way allowing people slightly more equitable. Yeah, it's just like making enough money. And I don't know if Henry Ford did this, but of course in the lore you always hear like everybody on the line could afford a car.

[Bernie Sanders]

Right, right.

[Andrew Schulz]

Like you would like to believe that everybody that is, you know, working 40 hours a week can afford the average goods that the American consumer want to buy. I don't know how we do that and I don't know if it's.

[Bernie Sanders]

That is the deb good. And that is the honest debate that we should be happy as a country.

[Andrew Schulz]

And can we, can we like, can we bring these billionaires, can we bring these oligarchs into that conversation? And they're clearly brilliant, right? Many of them. Obviously there's a bunch of them that are just nepo babies. And I'm curious your thoughts on like the nepo babies, the trust fund kids who have taken along like, you know, taken up politics and are finger wagging at people who actually work for a living when they've never had a real job. I'm curious your take on them being so opinionated.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, well, I echo what you're saying. You know, it's. Some of these folks born with huge amounts of money think that they have the right to be telling everybody else what they can be doing and have enormous power.

[Andrew Schulz]

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[Akash Singh]

I want to bring it back to something you mentioned and you mentioned. The hyperinflation of college tuition is something that you don't hear talked about a ton. But growing up in a family where the more degrees you have, the more respected you are, it seems as though it's getting to the point where you brought up where the product is not worth the call. College, having an undergraduate degree, it's not worth how much you're going to make in the long run. If we're not at that point, we're getting very close. Is there a solution to that? What would you say to that? I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, I happen to think that education itself is something that should be a lifelong pursuit. My wife tells me this every day. I mean, And I don't mean to be romanticized it, but you know, learning is a pretty good thing, you know, and I tell my grandchildren that, you know, and school sometimes almost discourage them from learning, you know, rote things. I hate school, grandpa, you know, so I think learning is important. I think we probably have to, in this day and age, revolutionize education. But I personally believe in my soul is if you want to get a graduate degree, we need you. And I don't. You shouldn't be going in debt. There should not be impediments. You know, we got to figure a way to fund it. But bottom line is anybody. I want to say to every kid in America, you're interested in physics, you're interested in science, you're interested in engineering, you're going to do it. I don't care what your income is, we will in one way or another, you're going to achieve that. And you know why? Because as a nation we need.

[Andrew Schulz]

You hear a lot of these, you hear a lot of these people saying, especially folks that are attached to these big corporations, like, America doesn't have enough engineers. America doesn't have all these things, so we have to go higher abroad. It's like, well, I don't know, maybe if you had access to billions of dollars, there's something that you could do to make sure that we could grow them here. Now, I'm not putting that 100% on them, but you would hope that there would be some sort of benevolence that would recognize a problem here.

[Bernie Sanders]

Not benevolence, it's self interest. Ooh.

[Andrew Schulz]

So reward their own selfishness.

[Bernie Sanders]

We need engineers, all right. We need people know how to build tunnels. All right, in case you haven't heard, there is a climate crisis. All right, how do you transform our energy system? Easier said than done. We need some really, really smart people to figure out how we create cheap, sustainable energy. Right?

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. I will send you to graduate school.

[Andrew Schulz]

Thank you daily.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, he needs it.

[Bernie Sanders]

We need badly, we need you. And that's what we should be thinking about as a nation.

[Alex Media]

And as far as subsidizing that, do we have room in the bus budget and where's the best place to pull it?

[Bernie Sanders]

Subsidized. What does that mean? We're subsidizing this bill right now, the so called reconciliation bill, the big Trump's big beautiful bill. We got 200 in the House. The Republicans are putting in $235 billion over a 10 year period to go to the top 2/10 of 1%. So if your billionaire father is going to leave you money, the exemption is now up to a married couple of $30 million that you don't have to pay any taxes on. So this goes to the top 2/10 of 1%. Do we have. We have enough money. This is what you got to get in your head. We have enough money in this country to do any goddamn thing you want to do in this particular budget. We're now spending a trillion dollars on the military. They want to spend 150 billion more. We're spending more than the bottom, the next nine nations combined. So what we're doing is giving tax breaks to the rich, spending more money on the military, and then we're going to cut Medicaid. So the way in this country, literally. And by the way, when I say these things, they're not radical ideas. All right. How much does it cost to go to college in Sweden? Nothing. Nothing. Oh, wow. No kidding. But that must be. The healthcare system is really expensive, right?

[Alex Media]

It must be, yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

How much does it cost healthcare in Sweden? No, nothing. Oh, my God, nothing. Child care must be really off the wall. How much that. In other words, if you slaughter off with a value system that says we're going to use. And there are rich people in Sweden, believe me. But it's a value system that says, look, we're in this together as a people. We want the best educated people. We want our kids to do well. We want everybody to have health care for a lot of reasons. Sweden does it, Norway does it, Finland does it.

[Akash Singh]

The pushback we often hear is the population in America is too big to support this. Is that true?

[Bernie Sanders]

That's bullshit. That is just. That is the pushback. And we're a multicultural multiracial and they're kind of a homogeneous. Yeah, so what? We're richer than they are. As a matter of fact. Well, Norway is particularly rich. They have a lot of oil money. But we can do it.

[Andrew Schulz]

So here's my suggestion for that. I think if a single single state provided universal health care, let's say, for example, Vermont, and they prove that it could be done, they would put so much pressure on every other point to do it.

[Akash Singh]

It's like legalizing weed.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah, exactly. We've seen it happen with weed, Right. Like one state does, it starts to make a lot of other say, oh, maybe we should sue it. People are only incentivized by their own salvation, unfortunately. How do we prove that? Which state is going to go make it happen for them and then make New York look Embarrassing. We have all this wealth and we can't provide health care to, to our citizens.

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, I think you make a very good point. The problem is the people in the insurance industry and the drug industry understand that as well. So they're not dummies. They understand. Oh, Jesus. Vermont managed to provide free health care to all of their people. That will become a model for the rest of the country and we're up the creek.

[Andrew Schulz]

So they fight a tooth and nail. And how do they fight it? Like for example, what are they doing?

[Bernie Sanders]

Jesus. Small state. You buy the, you know, you just have lobbyists there up the kazoo and put advertising on. I ran it. Look, I am an advocate of what we call Medicare for all. Expanding Medicare to cover every man, woman and child in the country.

[Eddie]

Yes.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. Oh, and the argument we had 30 second ads. Bernie Sanders wants to raise your taxes outrageously, take away the health insurance that you have. Well, what they forget to tell you is that you're not going to be paying, paying any more out of pocket, any more deductibles, any more premiums. You're going to get higher wages because your boss doesn't have to spend a fortune on health care to cover you. They forgot to tell you that.

[Andrew Schulz]

So it's like your taxes go up six grand, but your health care yearly cost goes from 12 grand to zero. So you just save six grand.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. And the healthcare system, get me going on that one. We're spending twice as much per capita as the people in Sweden who have a better healthcare system than we know. Why? Well, maybe coincidentally, insurance companies, you know, made. What did they made? 100. I think it made 70 billion last year. Drug companies that charges the highest prices for drugs made 100 billion. So it is a healthcare system designed to make what drug companies, insurance companies are rich.

[Akash Singh]

How do you keep the quality of insurance, sorry, high or quality of health care high? Because anecdotally I hear from people in the UK and Canada, their healthcare is not very good because it's, I guess, subsidized.

[Bernie Sanders]

The UK is under a lot of pressure right now, and that's true. And that's a political decision. Got the same factors that would impact the state. The big money interests are putting a lot of pressure trying to destroy the UK healthcare system and its quality is going down. Although it is still a very beloved institution in, in England, in Canada, there are waiting lines. It ain't a perfect system by any means, but don't, you know, don't hear all, don't believe all the right Wing stuff in Canada, their health. If you ask the people in Canada do they like their health care system as opposed to America's, has come out much better.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Speaking on healthcare, Trump recently signed an executive order to lower drug prices. How do you feel about that?

[Bernie Sanders]

You believe what you saw of the Baba? Not quite.

[Andrew Schulz]

There's no way. You've been living in Vermont for 50 years. That accent's not going nowhere.

[Bernie Sanders]

What he did is say, we're going to give the drug companies a certain period of time to tell us how they're going to lower drug prices, and if they don't, we're going to do A, B and C. We're not quite sure what A, B and C will be, but the likelihood is that A, B and C will be thrown out in the courts because the president doesn't have a right to tell companies how to fix prices. Just coincidentally, Bobby Kennedy, the secretary of hhs, was before the committee on the ranking committee member of. And I asked Bobby, and I said, look, president talks about substantially lower prescription drug prices. You do. We're going to introduce legislation that will do just that. Right. And will you work with me? He said, they will. So to answer your question, the president talks a lot. Don't believe what he says. We're going to put him to the test. We are going to bring forth legislation that would make sure that Americans don't pay a price any higher than people around the rest of the world. We'll see if they call it.

[Andrew Schulz]

So isn't a better framing of that not to be contentious here, but, like, isn't it better framing that, hey, Trump is saying this thing we agree on, we agree with you, and we're going to hold you to your word instead of, you're a liar.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's what I'm doing. Well, that's exactly right.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. Like, I think that's like. Because sometimes we get caught up in this partisan shit where it's like sometimes both sides agree and it'd be nice if we at least get drug prices lower.

[Bernie Sanders]

Trump's idea of substantial lowering prices is exactly right. Right. It's exactly what I fought for for years.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders]

Okay. So if Trump is willing to work with us, we'll do it. Absolutely. Do I think he will? Probably not, but I may be surprised.

[Andrew Schulz]

And then if he doesn't, let's hold him to his word and let's make sure he puts a pressure on those same senators that he would have primaried.

[Bernie Sanders]

Exactly.

[Andrew Schulz]

This is what you were saying. You want you get your senators in line. Right. Actually, I don't know if you're, like, infringing on the democratic process by saying to do that, but, like, it would be really great, especially those of us who have, like, older parents who are really reliant on these drugs right now.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yes. But don't get me going on the drug industry.

[Andrew Schulz]

Well, I kind of want to get going.

[Akash Singh]

We want you to get going on everything.

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, I got to get going to the airport to get a plane, as a matter of fact, but fly you private. All right. There you go. All right, look, you got a pharmaceutical industry that makes $100 billion in profit. Last year, we had a guy before the committee, the CEO of a major company makes 50 million bucks a year. They do stock buybacks. So, you know, it is a. Meanwhile, the same medicine that you buy in this country, whether it's Ozempic or Wegovy, whatever it may be, is in some cases, five, eight times more expensive than it is in Canada or in Europe.

[Andrew Schulz]

It's insane.

[Bernie Sanders]

It is insane. Of course it's insane. And they do it because they can do it, because we are the only kind. You know, why they do it. All right, question. You know how many paid lobbyists there are for the drug companies in Washington? They say take you guys, 2005-001500-01500. All right, so you got 535 members of Congress. 1500. These are former leaders of the Democrats.

[Alex Media]

Right.

[Bernie Sanders]

So that's a lot of power. And then their campaign contributions. So up until Biden and I work with Biden on this, we have never. What other countries do, say, good, you got a drug. That's great. Let's negotiate the price. You're going to charge us, right? That's what they do every other country on earth for us. You got to joke. You charge any price you want. Doesn't matter. For the first time, what we did is now have a law that says we are going to negotiate. Medicare will negotiate drug prices. We started off with 10. It'll be expanding. Is it enough? No. Is it a thought? Yes, it is.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. I just feel like there should be a certain point in time where patriotism kicks in. If you're an American company, you're going to gouge your own citizens, but let the Canadians and the Europeans pay way less.

[Bernie Sanders]

I don't look at it like that. But I'll tell you where it becomes not funny is there are. There are kids around the world who die from easily preventable diseases. And these drugs cost, you know, once you do the research, which is expensive, and the development, which Is expensive. But once you have the product, it sometimes cost you a few cents to manufacture the drug. You know, and there were children around the world who, who die, you know, in Africa and Asia from preventable diseases because these drug companies are charging prices that those countries can't afford. And that is. So you talk about. Then you talk about humanity, whether we let kids die for profit. It's a problem.

[Andrew Schulz]

I know you gotta go real quick. Before you go, we hear the term lobbyist all the time.

[Bernie Sanders]

Yes.

[Andrew Schulz]

I don't think I know what that means. Does somebody, like, meet you at a coffee shop, like. No, not you, obviously. But how does that. How does a lobbyist.

[Bernie Sanders]

That's how it means. This is what it means. Means I represent, you know, Mr. X represents a large corporation. We'd love to sit down with you and your staff. We stopped with the staff to talk about the problems that we have. These are our needs. And by the way, we got a great we. The company has great staff. We can write legislation, help you write because we know how busy you are.

[Andrew Schulz]

Oh, wow.

[Bernie Sanders]

Oh, and by the way, we'd love to do a fundraiser for the.

[Andrew Schulz]

You.

[Bernie Sanders]

So the combination of. And we have friends who come together. We have superbacs. So it. It. And by the way, some of these guys will know members of the Senate and the House because they're former. What do you think most senators when they retire do? Where do you think they go? They sit around Washington. They say they work. So. Hey, Joe, how are you? How's the wife, kids? Good. Well, listen, this is what we got. They know each other, so. And it's Republicans and Democrats. Check it out. I mean, four belt, literally leaders of the Republican and Democrats, Democratic Party. So it's money, it's connections, it's friendship, its ability to write tough legislation. You think writing tax bill is easy? It's not. You know, you need really sophisticated accountants. Line 48, section three. Da, da, da, da. Just inject this one sentence in there. They won't even say for you, that's what it's about.

[Eddie]

Please answer.

[Andrew Schulz]

Yeah. Yes.

[Eddie]

Are you going to run for president?

[Bernie Sanders]

Please ask. Yes. I'm 83 years of age, so that is. I think I've run my last race.

[Andrew Schulz]

Now, does that mean zero fair races? Does that mean that this oligarchy tour is you passing the baton?

[Bernie Sanders]

No, don't, don't look at it like that. The oligarchy tour is.

[Andrew Schulz]

I think we're all looking at it like that now.

[Bernie Sanders]

It's not a passing the baton. I happen to, you know, I think Alexandria is great, but it's not my job to determine who the new leaders are. You know, people have each of them. As I mentioned in the House, there are a lot of great people in the Senate, there's some good people, and there are people who are not in office right now. But the oligarchy tour was an effort to say to the country that there are people all over America who are going to stand up to this oligarchy. They don't want a government of billionaires. They're going to stand up to authoritarianism. There are people, as I'm sure you're familiar with, a young woman from Turkey, for God's sakes, was in Massachusetts, went to Tufts University. You remember that? This woman walks down the street, suddenly, guys grab her with masks on, throw her into a van, take her to a detention center. Why? Because she wrote an op ed critical of the war in Gaza. Really? That's what goes on in America, and we're seeing that. So, you know, this was an opportunity for people. By the zillion. We were shocked, to be honest with you. When I ran for president, we had very large turnouts. These are larger. I mean, in LA, we had 36,000. In Denver, we had 34. I mean, insane, insane turnouts. In. We went. We went to Idaho, the most conservative state in the country, with 12,000 people out outside of Boise. So we wanted to give people the opportunity to stand up and say, no, we're not happy with the direction that Trump is taking this country.

[Andrew Schulz]

Wow.

[Bernie Sanders]

Sorry.

[Akash Singh]

I want to. Go ahead.

[Alex Media]

I'm curious. I find you very brave, and I find the work.

[Bernie Sanders]

No, I am not brave.

[Alex Media]

I find you brave personally. And because I recognize that what you're doing, doing disrupts, or at least you are attempting to disrupt many powerful people and their access to unthinkable amounts of wealth. So I'm curious, in your work and in your political career, have you ever felt that your personal safety was ever threatened?

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, I. I don't want to get into that, but do we have security issues? Wow. Is that your question? Of course we do. And I'm not.

[Andrew Schulz]

And the more power that you have, the higher the concern of that security.

[Bernie Sanders]

Security. I don't want to get into it. Those are. Those are issues.

[Alex Media]

But that's why I find.

[Andrew Schulz]

I just want to let you know, Bernie, we're here to bang for you, bro. Yeah, we're here to bang for you. If you need anything, you let us know. Yeah, okay.

[Akash Singh]

You still got a lot of love.

[Andrew Schulz]

In New York City. You're safe here, man. I can't say anything for Idaho, but if you need anything in the five boroughs, we got you.

[Akash Singh]

Okay, so I may follow up on one thing that you brought up earlier, revolutionizing education. How would you do that beyond paying teachers more? I just need to know.

[Bernie Sanders]

I think sitting kids at a desk for long hours is probably not the best way to create the kind of creativity that we want in kids. At the end of the day, if you are excited about learning, you're going to learn. And if I pound that excitement out of you that every child instinctively have and tell you to memorize what George Washington did, yeah, I'm going to make school a painful experience. So interesting. I use Finland as an example because their kids, they usually do better. Their kids, they allow their kids to be kids, to play a lot, to socialize a lot. But you got to keep the spark alive. And once that spark is alive, curiosity is alive, learning takes place, learning takes place, the rest takes place. So I think you need a revolution in that sense of the word. And also, of course, course, the financial barrier should be eliminated. I don't care if you're low income, you want to become an engineer, you'd be able to do that. So those are some of the.

[Andrew Schulz]

Before you leave, how can people who feel like your message has really resonated with them today help, Help you help the cause?

[Bernie Sanders]

Yeah, look, we are trying to build, to do something which is very, very difficult. And I think we're having some success and we've had some success is, you know, come to our social media. You know, we have a Senate page and we have a campaign page, more political. We are supporting and will be supporting more progressive candidates running for Congress, Senate and so forth. And I will tell you, think outside of the box in your own life, lives. These are unprecedented times and we've got to respond in an unprecedented way. And you think that each, every one of us is different. You don't want to run for office, fine. What else can you be doing? Help people form a union, become involved in education in a way you did not be involved before. You think it through. But we need more participation. We don't need what the system really. And this I've experienced, I've seen it a million times. Times. What the oligarchs and the ruling class want you to believe is that you're powerless, you have no power. And once you accept that, they, they win, they win. We have power. We're a lot more, a lot more. The joy that I've had in my life is to be in every state in this country and talk to I've been in rallies where you see these wonderful people, often young people. They're black and they're white and they're Latino know, and they're gay and they're straight and they're out there and they want a different America. And that's what inspires me. I've seen it with my own eyes. They're out there. They don't believe in greed and they don't believe in, you know, so many of the things that we're seeing right now. Those people are going to stand up. You got to come to the plate and we got to do what we can to transform the country. Time is late. We're dealing with very dealing with authoritarianism. We're dealing with climate. Let's get involved in ways that we've never been involved before.

[Andrew Schulz]

Sarah, Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for being well.

[Bernie Sanders]

Thank you. Let me thank you. This has been a great discussion.

[Akash Singh]

Thank you.

[Bernie Sanders]

Thank you very much, guys.