Did Trump Betray His Voters? Feat: Pod Save America & Ro Khanna

Summary

Podcast Summary: Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh – "Did Trump Betray His Voters?" Featuring Pod Save America & Ro Khanna

Release Date: July 15, 2025

In this episode of Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh, hosts Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh dive into a heated discussion about former President Donald Trump’s relationship with his voters, the Democratic Party's internal struggles, and the ongoing controversy surrounding the Epstein files. Joining them are special guests from Pod Save America, including Jon Favreau and Tommy Vietor, as well as Congressman Ro Khanna, who brings a legislative perspective to the conversation.

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1. Trump's Unfulfilled Promises and Voter Accountability

Akaash Singh opens the discussion by reflecting on the consequences of holding Trump accountable for unmet campaign promises, arguing that it backfired by alienating his voter base. He states:

"Once you vote for somebody, no matter what they do... you just ride that until the wheels fall off." [00:13]

Mark Gagnon chimes in to emphasize unwavering support for elected officials:

"If you vote for that, then you got to stick with that the whole way through, no matter what." [02:00]

The hosts critique the expectation for voters to remain loyal regardless of leadership failures, highlighting a broader issue of political loyalty over accountability.

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2. Democratic Party's Internal Challenges

The conversation shifts to the Democratic Party's internal dynamics, focusing on issues like super PACs, lobbying, and the difficulty of holding party leaders accountable. Ro Khanna remarks on the necessity of transparency and reform within the party:

"We need to hold the people in power accountable... It's not a partisan issue." [66:02]

Akaash criticizes the party's reliance on established power structures and special interests, suggesting that this dependence undermines genuine progress and alienates voters seeking meaningful change.

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3. Epstein Files Controversy

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the debate over releasing the Epstein files. Congressman Ro Khanna articulates the importance of transparency and the public's right to know:

"People who were participating in this being exposed... we should just release these files." [66:02]

The guests discuss the potential implications of releasing the files, including the risks of reputational harm to individuals not formally charged with crimes. They argue that withholding information perpetuates distrust in the government and favors the powerful elite.

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4. Insights from Pod Save America Guests

Jon Favreau and Tommy Vietor of Pod Save America share their perspectives on political accountability and the influence of media and super PACs. Favreau emphasizes the challenges Democrats face in unifying their coalition:

"If we don't listen to the base and understand their frustrations, we're never going to start to win them back." [Various Timestamps]

Tommy Vietor discusses the impact of super PACs on political integrity and the difficulty of implementing reforms without presidential support:

"To get this vote on ending super PACs, it comes to this Rules Committee... they're going to try to stop this from coming to a vote." [78:02]

The guests highlight the systemic barriers that prevent significant political reforms from passing, underscoring the need for leadership willing to challenge entrenched interests.

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5. Strategies for Democratic Renewal

The panel explores strategies for revitalizing the Democratic Party by fostering inclusivity, embracing bold policies, and building coalitions beyond the traditional base. Ro Khanna advocates for:

"Economic patriotism... build millions of new homes and invest in this country instead of overseas wars." [84:35]

Akaash Singh suggests that Democrats need to present clear, actionable policies that resonate with struggling voters rather than merely criticizing opponents:

"We need to build coalitions by offering hope and tangible solutions, not by labeling people as idiots." [Various Timestamps]

Jon Favreau adds that Democrats must communicate their policies in simple, relatable terms to effectively compete in the modern attention economy.

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts and guests reiterate the importance of accountability, transparency, and innovative policy-making within the Democratic Party. They call for a departure from partisan rigidity towards a more inclusive and solution-oriented approach to governance.

"Our ultimate goal is to pass policies that improve people's lives, not just to be right on the Internet." [45:25]

The discussion emphasizes that meaningful political change requires both internal reform and effective engagement with the electorate to rebuild trust and address the country's pressing issues.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Once you vote for somebody, no matter what they do... you just ride that until the wheels fall off." — Akaash Singh [00:13]

• "We need to hold the people in power accountable... It's not a partisan issue." — Ro Khanna [66:02]

• "Economic patriotism... build millions of new homes and invest in this country instead of overseas wars." — Ro Khanna [84:35]

• "Our ultimate goal is to pass policies that improve people's lives, not just to be right on the Internet." — Akaash Singh [45:25]

This episode provides a candid exploration of the current political landscape, dissecting the failures of leadership, the influence of money in politics, and the urgent need for Democratic renewal to effectively serve and represent the American populace.

Transcript

[Akash Singh]

What's up, everybody? Apparently, we ruined America. You know, we were trying to hold the person in power, President Trump, accountable for not fulfilling some of his promises, and that was foolish, man.

[Mark Yagnon]

You're an idiot.

[Akash Singh]

That was a bad person thing to do. Once you vote for somebody, no matter what they do, even if it's the exact opposite of what they say they're going to do, you just ride that until the wheels fall off. Yes.

[Ro Khanna]

Double down.

[Akash Singh]

Exactly. Always double down. Like if you vote for a guy that you know is dead, you pretend he's not dead for four years. Exactly. That's what makes you virtuous. That's what makes you care about your country. Pick a side and you die for that side. You know, so that's, you know, that was a big up of ours.

[Mark Yagnon]

That was a big up, man.

[Akash Singh]

We just kind of wanted to know about Epstein, you know, victimizing a thousand girls and who else he did it with. We just kind of wanted to know, and Trump was like, you're not going to know. And we're like, I don't like that. Yeah, but that's our fault. Yeah, that's being a bad American. But we were being bad. A good American said, yes, yes, T, Daddy, thank you so much, and I have some more. That's what you're supposed to say. That's what a good America says. Because a bad American be like, yo, you said you were going to end these foreign wars, and we're still. Still just blowing up places we don't want to blow up anymore. Yeah, no, no, but what would a good American do? You just say, oh, thank you so much. Can I have another one? Yeah, yeah, that's what you said. Okay, okay. So a bad American be like, wait, wait, wait. You said you were going to lower the. The deficit, but right now we're just, yes, bro, that's what you voted for. That's what you voted for. If you vote for that, then you got to stick with that the whole way through, no matter what. Yes, exactly. Oh, wow. That seems. That doesn't seem very Democratic at all.

[Ro Khanna]

No.

[Mark Yagnon]

Well, good Democrat, if somebody wants to change their mind on Donald Trump says, no, you're not allow to. And instead of wondering what maybe made you vote for him, you just say, you're stupid, you're a bad person. We don't change anything.

[Akash Singh]

We're perfect. Because I figured what they would want to do is maybe win the midterms.

[Mark Yagnon]

Oh, no, I know.

[Akash Singh]

Or maybe even when the.

[Mark Yagnon]

You don't want to win. You want to be right. Just On Twitter.

[Akash Singh]

So just right. Right now? Yeah. On.

[Mark Yagnon]

On Twitter for five minutes.

[Akash Singh]

The most selfish thing that they could possibly be.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

Only them just get some clicks and.

[Mark Yagnon]

Views because you actually have to care about, like, what, the state of America.

[Akash Singh]

Right. It's not like we live in a democracy where you lost and you actually need people that are disillusioned to go on your side.

[Mark Yagnon]

You got to party that just doesn't have primaries for candidates. That's where you go.

[Akash Singh]

I get it.

[Mark Yagnon]

And if you're upset by that, you love Trump and everything he did and every lie he tells.

[Akash Singh]

That's a great point.

[Mark Yagnon]

That's your problem.

[Akash Singh]

That's a great.

[Mark Yagnon]

You don't want to hold them accountable or get disillusioned by them. It makes you bad.

[Akash Singh]

That's a great point. I know. You know what I should have done? It's like, if I wanted to vote for somebody who was going to end the foreign wars, who was going to increase the budget, and who is going to, you know, deficits, just. Just silence the Epstein files and throw it away, I should have just voted for Kamala. Right. Because she was going to do that.

[Mark Yagnon]

And that's what had been happening, and.

[Akash Singh]

That'S what was happening. She said she was going to continue, so I should have just voted for that. Exactly, because you were happy with the status quo. Yeah, I wanted something different. I was hoping for some sort of change. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Then you should have voted for comma.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Got it, got it. Okay, well, listen. Now you know. Yeah, I'm just a fucking idiot. Obviously, I didn't understand how this, you know, information economy works.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah, you don't understand democr. Democracy.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, damn democracy's tough, dude.

[Mark Yagnon]

We need someone to explain it to us.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, yeah, dude, I think we should get somebody to explain to us. I know a couple guys that are probably pretty brilliant.

[Mark Yagnon]

Okay, I'm in.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, they're. They are like, probably the OGs of this political podcast. They worked for somebody that we really respect. Gang. Gang. Oh, hell, yeah. Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton, the goat dude. No, we got a great episode today. These guys. By the way, guys, I'm sure some of you have noticed what's happened the last few days. I just want to let you all know right now, like, I'm in neither one of your fucking cults, okay? If you want me to be in your cults, you can go. Fuck off. I'm not in the damn cult. Not a Republican cult. I'm a free American. I'll make my own fucking decisions. And I'LL say whatever the fuck I want about whatever president is in power. Okay? Simple as that. I don't give a fuck what you guys have to say. No, no, I mean it. It's like, if you guys are getting any shit, I just. I implore you to do the exact same thing. We're not going to get caught up in this group. Think, like, I do understand that there are, you know, some, like, social media influencers out there that are no different than, like, the Trump grifters, where, like, you just make your money and you get your views and you get your virtue signal good moments out of, like, calling out this shit. But if you actually care about what's happening in the country, maybe you would want to talk to some different people and maybe you would hope to build a coalition and move some votes back over to the Democrats if you think that they have a better idea for America. But obviously that's not what you want. But God forbid we shine a light on the people who.

[Mark Yagnon]

You know what I'm getting a lot of. You talked to him. You platformed him as if he was at 0%. And then we talked to him, and then he won the election as if he had fucking no shot of winning.

[Akash Singh]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Mark Yagnon]

People were like, this guy's a monster or he's not a human being. Then we humanize him. That's what he keeps saying.

[Akash Singh]

Let's game theory this, Aakash. Okay. We are so powerful and influential by simply sitting down with him. Yeah, Right. We made him president.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

So one would think that if we are disillusioned by some of the things that he is doing as president, and we are upset that that same influence might be able to make someone else president. So shouldn't you be embracing this massive influence? You come to our side or you just want to take no accountability for the. That you ran a dead guy and a woman that couldn't speak. Yeah, with no primary. With no primary at all. So, like, let's put it again, maybe.

[Mark Yagnon]

She could speak, but she wouldn't speak to us.

[Akash Singh]

Okay.

[Mark Yagnon]

I wanted to talk to both people who could be president of the country. Sorry, I'm an asshole.

[Akash Singh]

Sorry I'm a bad person. Idiot.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

I mean, do you know that? I know this is crazy, but did you know that politicians lie? That's something I just found out. Someone was like, trump's a fucking liar. You didn't know he's a fucking liar? And I was like, oh, I thought they were all liar. I didn't realize that there Are people that tell you the truth in politics.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah. Every politician that said Biden was sharp cognitively when he refused to give up power in 2022.

[Akash Singh]

That's really interesting.

[Mark Yagnon]

They were not lying. They were being honest. He suddenly got retarded.

[Akash Singh]

That's a really interesting. Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

Suddenly, soon as the debate comes.

[Akash Singh]

No, this does. Dementia. This does happen.

[Mark Yagnon]

He actually got dementia while he was prepping for the debate. Like when they were like, five, four, his brain stopped working.

[Ro Khanna]

Right.

[Akash Singh]

That does happen because you're right. Right. Elizabeth Warren, she came out and she said something. What was it? I mean, yeah, it was hilarious. What did she say? They said, well, you know, do you stand by. You stand by your comments about Biden's lucidity?

[Mark Yagnon]

And she was like, yeah, he was so sharp. He was extremely sharp when I saw him.

[Akash Singh]

And. And then the guy even asked her is like, do you think he's sharper than you? And she goes, sometimes, yeah. Like, she couldn't even help herself from laughing. That's a hilarious American. Right. She said, she's a native. They'll lie about anything. So what you do is with politicians is you gravitate towards the lies you like better. That's what we hope one or two.

[Mark Yagnon]

Of those lies happen.

[Akash Singh]

Exactly. It's simple as that. If we go off of, like, the truth that we know is going to happen, nothing's going to change. We already know that. Right. So we have a little bit of hope. Give me one thing.

[Mark Yagnon]

Obamacare, One thing that works.

[Ro Khanna]

You did that.

[Mark Yagnon]

You could lie about a lot of things. You do one thing.

[Akash Singh]

If you did.

[Mark Yagnon]

If Trump did one of the things, we would have been happy. Stop the endless war. Stop the spending. Release the Epstein files. We'd been like, you know what?

[Akash Singh]

Okay, cool. Unfortunately, the one he chose was the immigration one, the one that we are not.

[Mark Yagnon]

He said to us, in which we press him in a way. I don't know what you thought.

[Akash Singh]

They.

[Mark Yagnon]

Think we were supposed to dunk on Trump immediately, make him get up and walk off in 30 seconds, and now we're all happy.

[Akash Singh]

Yes.

[Mark Yagnon]

We had an hour conversation.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

So we could get that. But you got the questions. Like she'll saying, hey, what about people who are here working hard? And then Trump saying, well, you got to start with the. With the criminals.

[Akash Singh]

He didn't. Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

So he didn't even do that.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

So he's done nothing on those fronts in terms of the promises he made us.

[Akash Singh]

But I don't regret it at all. I don't even regret voting for him at All. Because what you see is all these Democrats that are starting to take up the issues that he was the one campaigning on. So essentially what he's done is pull the Democrat Party over to the center. So if they start talking about these issues. Ro Khanna, who we have on later on this podcast. So today we got the, I don't even know if I already said this, but we got the Pod Save America America boys, the OG Podcast bros. They don't get the credit that they deserve, but they are the OG bros. Okay. We've kind of taken over the Manosphere bro thing. But they were fucking. We Atomosphere bros. Or whatever that was back in the day.

[Mark Yagnon]

We appropriate.

[Akash Singh]

So yeah. So we sorry for taking that from you guys. But, but no, they're on, they're fucking brilliant and they've got great perspective on what's happening politically and like what, how the Dems can take advantage of these kind of moments where the, the right is fractured. And then we got Ro Khanna who's pushing up this bill in Congress right now where he wants to release the entire unredacted Epstein files.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

And we're going to get a moment where hopefully we get to see which congressmen decide that they do not want that out there. And that is going to be very telling. Yes. So I'm very excited for you guys to hear this Con. But yeah, that is a great point. We're really fucking awesome. Was that the point that you were making?

[Ro Khanna]

Yes.

[Mark Yagnon]

We changed the Democratic Party, I think, is the point that you made.

[Akash Singh]

But it's like now you see so much of the Democratic Party that's echoing a lot of the sentiments that are usually on the right. Yeah, Right. So they're pulling over. Like, I think you see Democrats, like Roe is basically taking on the Epstein conspiracy.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

That's a right wing thing that now the right wing is trying to sweep under the rug. So Roe's like, you're not, you're not going nowhere with that shit. If you said it was a thing and you campaigned, let's expose it. Yes. So I think Biden wanted to expose it.

[Jon Favreau]

I think he had all the files.

[Akash Singh]

In his mind and that's why they made him go crazy. I, I, what would you do if someone had that level of incriminating information and all the files in there? Make them forget. Exactly, bro.

[Ro Khanna]

That's what they did.

[Mark Yagnon]

Maybe we are as powerful as they think we are. We change politics, dude.

[Akash Singh]

I mean, the White House did respond.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yes, they did.

[Akash Singh]

They did. I took the dumbest thing that the White House has ever done. I just want to point this out. Never respond to us.

[Mark Yagnon]

But, yeah, I was like, just take a second to appreciate cool that is that the White House is saying your name. That's so crazy.

[Akash Singh]

He was like. He said something like, andrew knows that life is better in America right now. And I'm sitting there, I'm struggling in my house in the Hamptons, looking at my pool with my daughter.

[Jon Favreau]

Your daughter's eating sand.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, she's just eating sand. I'm like, I don't know if I can live in this America anymore. I went to the store, I got a $8 Arnold Palmer. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to exist in this America now. There was a moment when he said, life is good. And I was like, hey, he not wrong about that. But, yeah, it's okay. So listen, something we say now, we expect an immediate response from the White House. Yeah, A precedent has been set. If we talk about the White House, they fucking respond. And if they don't respond, what do we do then? Do another episode until they respond. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we don't stop. We double down. Damn. I wish we had a better response. I just kind of lobbed up something with no rhythm. It was a volleyball net. Anyway, boys, let's get to this.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

All right. Right now, we are about to be joined by the most dangerous ethnic group in America, White Podcast Bros. These two guys have played a major role in shaping how millions of people understand politics, from Obama staffers to co founding one of the most influential political podcasts out there, Pod Save America. These guys are smart, thoughtful, handsome, vaccinated, and they're genuinely trying to make politics more honest and nuanced, which is refreshing. It's good to see some other people out there doing that besides us, finally. Right? Okay. Please give a warm flavor welcome. We call him Johnny Favs. And TV Tommy. You guys can call him. You probably already know him as Jon Favreau. And Tommy Podcast Bro. What's up, bro?

[Jon Favreau]

Reclaiming it. We're reclaiming bros. How's it going, guys?

[Akash Singh]

Guys, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate you indulging me. Yesterday. I hit up Tommy and John yesterday. It was a bit of a media storm that happened after some criticisms that I had over Trump. And I had a John, and I was like, john, am I off on this? What is the best way to handle somebody that I voted for that is not living up to their promises? I'm criticizing them. And some responses are, well, yeah, you're a fucking idiot. And I was like, I don't know if that's the best way to build a coalition. What do you think?

[Ro Khanna]

What do you think about that, John?

[Jon Favreau]

No, that shit drives me nuts. Because I think, first of all, Trump lies a lot. He's always lied a lot. And it also assumes that every single person in America was supposed to be paying attention to every single word that Donald Trump has ever said, which they're not. But then, aside from all that, like you said, if you want to persuade people to join your coalition, which is how you actually win elections, then when someone says, oh, I'm disappointed in the person I voted for, you say, well, welcome. Welcome to our side. Yeah, that's, that's, that's the, that's the smart thing. Unless you want to just. Unless you want to just be right on the Internet, which a lot of people just do, you know?

[Akash Singh]

So.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[Akash Singh]

Sorry. No, no, no, it is. I don't know what it says about me, but when they were like, fuck you, maybe I have mommy issues or something, I was like, I kind of like this. Like, I think I'm going back to the Dems, guys. No, what were you saying, Todd?

[Tommy Vietor]

No, it just drives me crazy. I mean, like, on the right, how dare you not say what the dear leader says? Like, that doesn't track for me. And then on the left, Democrats, we just need to understand that saying, ha, ha ha, and scolding people and telling them that I was right and you were wrong.

[Akash Singh]

That's so.

[Tommy Vietor]

No, everyone hates you when you do that.

[Ro Khanna]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, whether it's in life, whether it's in your house or a political party. So we just gotta welcome people and we also have to say to them, okay, what could Democrats do that would earn back your vote?

[Akash Singh]

Because it looks like. And again, my assumption is the administration thinks that the Epstein thing is just an Internet issue. I'm really curious what you guys think, what the administration is thinking right now. Because for them to so flippantly, like, throw it away after campaigning so hard to me, indicates that they're going, this is on Twitter. This is on Instagram. It's not going to sway any of the voters. It feels like it's a little bigger than that. What do you think?

[Tommy Vietor]

I think it's a lot bigger than that. I mean, I think Akash nailed it on the last episode. There's sort of two options here. Either these guys were lying all along. Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, all these influencers and were cynically using Epstein's abuse of what DOJ now says was a thousand kids to advance their political agenda or they're covering something up. And so I could understand good arguments for each side, but we do know that Bill O'Reilly recently said that he talked to Trump in March and he said, well, there's a lot of, like, good people who are in the Epstein files who are associated with him who didn't do anything sexually, was a suggestion, and he didn't want to put their names out there because that's unfair guilt by association. So there's a lot of smoke here that suggests there's something happening.

[Jon Favreau]

I think that they know it's a big deal in the administration, but there's just not a lot of good options for them right now because they clearly don't want to put out more information.

[Akash Singh]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

Or so there's. They either don't want to put out more information, or there's no more information to put out. And either option leads to what Tommy was just saying, that either they lied to us all along and we're exploiting this issue, or that they're covering something up. And so all they can do is move on, tell people to shut the fuck up and get back on board, all the. All the MAGA influencers and everyone else and hope that there's, you know, just wait for the news cycle to move on. But, like, I just don't think that. I don't think that's going to work because, you know, conspiracies or questions based on scandals that are. All you have to do is say, like, are they covering something up? Is there more info? Like, that goes on forever.

[Ro Khanna]

Forever.

[Jon Favreau]

You know, there's no stopping that.

[Mark Yagnon]

And to your point, and addressing what Tommy said earlier, of. There's a lot of names that would just be. There would be guilt by association. I'm gonna be honest. If you are hanging out with a person who's convicted of pedophilia in 2008, you are guilty by association.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

Like, if you. If anybody in this room was a convicted pedophile, I'm not hanging out with them anymore.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

I don't know what else to tell you.

[Akash Singh]

I'm not staying at your fucking brownstone on the Upper east side.

[Mark Yagnon]

Like, I can pay for my own plane ticket.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

Also, guys, tour dates. I'm going to be in Kansas City August 1st and 2nd, August 8th and 9th. I'm going to be in Toledo, Ohio, at the funny bone August 22nd and 23rd. It's a lot of fucking Ohio, huh? Liberty Township September, September 11th through 13th. Let's hope I don't bomb on those shows. Dania Beach, Florida. Bunch of other dates on my [e-mail] but also the Akash Singh show drops this week. We are trying to work out our first episode with Rangir Alabadia talking about everything he went through. He is currently, I think, right now in front of the Supreme Court. So we have to be a little delicate with when we drop it. But I'm very excited for you guys to see it. I think it's important for anybody who's anti censorship, etc, check out the first episode of the Akash Singh show this week. I love y'.

[Akash Singh]

All.

[Mark Yagnon]

It's gonna be on my YouTube channel, YouTube.comakashing comedy.

[Ro Khanna]

Love y'.

[Akash Singh]

All.

[Ro Khanna]

What's up, guys?

[Akash Singh]

Mark Yagnon here. I got some tour dates for you if you want to skip forward. Dude, I'm not gonna stop you. You know what I mean? I completely understand. It happens. All right. Suck his dick.

[Ro Khanna]

That's not bad.

[Akash Singh]

Honestly.

[Ro Khanna]

It's not bad.

[Akash Singh]

That's not bad. I bet it actually. It is bad.

[Mark Yagnon]

Don't do it.

[Ro Khanna]

Okay?

[Akash Singh]

Because this Saturday, New York City on.

[Mark Yagnon]

July 19, I'm gonna be doing Alex's.

[Akash Singh]

Show at the Hard Rock.

[Mark Yagnon]

Come on out.

[Akash Singh]

It's gonna be absolutely suck hands, dick guys. Come on.

[Mark Yagnon]

And then I'm gonna be in Stanford, Connecticut, Hoboken, New Jersey, Levittown, New York, Chandler, Arizona, San Diego, Burlington.

[Akash Singh]

I'm also going to Canada, Toronto, Montreal.

[Mark Yagnon]

A bunch of other days.

[Akash Singh]

Detroit is in there. And we're adding some days. You could suck his dick into the new year.

[Mark Yagnon]

I'll see you guys at the show.

[Akash Singh]

God bless you all and peace be with you.

[Tommy Vietor]

And like Mark said, this Saturday, July 19th, New York City, Times Square.

[Akash Singh]

At Hard Rock Casino.

[Tommy Vietor]

Times Square, we have a happy hour.

[Akash Singh]

We have comedy. We have an after party after. Come have a good time. Wait.

[Tommy Vietor]

Cancel Comedy X on Instagram. Lincoln bio.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't know if you guys saw the clip that's going around now of this Fox interview that Trump did in 2004 last summer.

[Akash Singh]

I just saw whatever clip you sent to me.

[Jon Favreau]

He's doing this interview with Fox and what we all saw on television is Rachel Campos Duffy, who's the Fox host, former Real World contestant, married to the Transportation secretary now, Sean Duffy. She asked Trump about declassifying the Epstein files. And. And what everyone saw was Trump saying, yeah, yeah, I would. But turns out they edited the video and the rest of his answer was played, like, much later on. Will Caine's radio show. And his full answer was, well, yeah, that one's a little more complicated than the Kennedy files or January 6th because you don't wanna tarnish people's reputation if they're just mentioned a few times here and there. That doesn't have to do with anything else. So that was last year that Trump said that and then they just decided to edit it. You know, I've been reliably told by Trump is a huge election hoax for a media outlet to edit an answer like that. So I'm sure a settlement with, with Fox will be forthcoming, but we'll see.

[Tommy Vietor]

Do you think his base is going to just let this go? No, no, I don't. I think there's kind of like a couple categories of people. Like I think there are some folks who genuinely kind of fold into like the QAnon set of beliefs where they believe sincerely that there's kind of a cabal of evil, mostly Democrats who are child abusers, who run the world. Like, like there's people who sincerely hold those views. There's also people who are just like what? You know, like you said you would do this. You pro, like Pam Bondi in February promised us that you would. She was reviewing the files. None of this makes sense. And now you're just insulting us. And I think like what's interesting about this, this scandal is it's like the Megyn Kelly types, like traditional Fox Republicans are mad, the Tucker Carlson's of the world are mad, and then Alex Jones is really mad. It's like it runs the gamut.

[Akash Singh]

It. How, how do you guys handle when, I mean, I imagine you guys feel very comfortable being critical of your own party. Do you, are you delicate about it? Do you feel like you have to be even more critical? Are you ever concerned that like you guys have so much influence that your critiques could sway voters away? Like what, how do you hold your own party accountable is basically what I'm asking.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, you know, about a year ago after the debate between Biden and Trump, we sort of immediately after the debate said that it fucking awful and that Biden should seriously think about whether he needs to stay in the race. And you know, we weren't too popular for a while but like in that sense, look, there are some times where Democrats fuck up and like I agree with what they're trying to do, like the underlying policy behind it, right? And so there, when it's just about execution or like fucking something up here and there, then I'm more like, well I agree with the goal I agree with the policy outcome here. So I don't want to be like, I don't want to just be shitting on everybody, everything. But with something like the Biden debate performance, I was like, look, we either he either drops out of the race and we give ourselves a chance to beat Donald Trump, or we have Donald Trump as president again, which I didn't want. So like, of course I'm going to criticize Biden.

[Mark Yagnon]

How do you feel about the lack of primary. Sorry.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, for a reelection, it's kind of standard. But look, I mean, I struggle with this one a little bit.

[Ro Khanna]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, obviously after the debate it was self evident that he was not up for reelection or four more years. And saying as much was just like it was stating what was obvious. What I struggle with was, to be honest with you, like before Biden ran in 2020, I felt like he was too old to be running at that point. I felt like I kind of. We're pretty critical of his campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire when he took fourth and fifth place and then he won South Carolina, won the nomination and won the presidency. And I was like, you know what? Maybe I'm just a fucking idiot and I don't know anything about politics and I'm wrong. And so then when he decides to run again in 2022, I was like, this doesn't feel right. All the data is telling us he's too old. But like, clearly he had made the decision at. And so I was like, I don't know. Well, if I had to vote for one over the other, I would have ended up voting for Joe Biden because I agree with him on the issues. But now I think about in hindsight and I was like, you know what, maybe I should have just been, been louder then. Like, I don't think they would have cared. They, they didn't give us an interview for four years because we were critical in that 2020 primary and they held a grudge.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh yeah, they hated us, but they're not happy. I don't think that. I think on the primary issue, like, I, I kind of blame the other Democrats who could have run. But did, you know, like, like people haven't talked. Yeah, like, look, you could. I mean, I get that when it's an incumbent president, it's rare to have a primary challenge in a presidential. It's also even rarer for that primary challenge to succeed. And if you run against Joe Biden and he ends up being the nominee and wins the presidency, like the party's not Gonna look at you kindly. So I get the calculation that goes into that, but ultimately, if Josh Shapiro or Gretchen Whitmer or Pete or any of those folks decided to primary Biden, they could have done it and not to. And they made a calculation about why that wasn't good for their careers or why they wouldn't be successful, and that's fine, but, like, you know, they could have done it.

[Mark Yagnon]

And I like Pete, but I assume you were working with Biden for four years and you probably saw the cognitive. Cognitive decline well before that debate, and you still chose not to primary him, which is a little disappointing, I guess.

[Akash Singh]

You make an interesting point about, like, if you support the underlying policy that you're trying to implement, even if you fail in the implementation, the idea behind it is. Right. And I think that that's like, like an issue for Trump right now where he has a lot of people that are concerned or disillusioned because a lot of things that he was promising weren't really policies. Releasing the Epstein file. Epstein file isn't a policy. Ending foreign wars isn't a policy. Right. I guess reducing government spending, there are ways that you would attempt to do it, but maybe it didn't happen. But some of these things are promises that are very difficult in execution. Like, it's almost like I, I don't really begrudge Trump not being able to convince Putin in one phone call to be like, I'll just give Ukraine back the Donbass region. Like, this is hard, geopolitical, diplomatic shit. And so maybe there is a version of like, over promising and under delivering, which no politician has ever done in history. But I just, I just wonder like, what a, what a base does there. And then how can Democrats that feel like they actually can serve that base, not just bring over voters that are pissed because I don't think those are like real. That's a real coalition. But like, actually, how can you serve these people? Because it feels like the Dem party right now is a little bit fractured. There's like this new guard that's kind of rebellious and exciting and it's gaining a lot of steam. And then it feels like the old guard is trying to do whatever they can to kind of consolidate power. Is that what you guys are seeing?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I mean, look, the leadership of the party is really old. We have a real gerontocracy party in the real gerontocracy problem within the democr Democratic Party. I think the stat is the last eight politicians to die in office were Democrats. Right. So that's that's not good.

[Akash Singh]

Cool record.

[Tommy Vietor]

We, we like, look, the two of us sitting here, we, we worked for Obama. We could tell you a lot about people feeling like you bring back Obama.

[Akash Singh]

Can we just convince him to come back? Everybody loved them, even though they didn't.

[Ro Khanna]

They did they?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, they, like, at the time, you know, there were a lot of people who are very disappointed by him. They felt like he ran on being anti war, right. And he ran on ending the war in Iraq, but he sent more troops to Afghanistan. There were a lot of drone strikes. There were a controversial counterterrorism policies. There was Libya, Syria, like a million things, right. That people were understandably mad about. And I feel I have a lot of sympathy for people who govern because campaigning is a lot easier than governing. Governing is fucking hard. There's events that happen, you don't control them. Like the Arab Spring happens and it just changed everything we did for two years in the Obama administration. And Benghazi happened.

[Akash Singh]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

So there's just like cascading events. I do think though, like, Trump is in a real. Trump has just flip flopped on so many things. I mean, you guys talked about this. It was not just Epstein, it was the Iran strikes. I mean, today it sounds like he's going to send weapons to Ukraine again.

[Akash Singh]

A lot of, a lot of things.

[Tommy Vietor]

Royal in the base here.

[Akash Singh]

And even with Israel specifically, it looked like he was taking a hard line with Bibi. And then I don't know if it was his ego, like he just couldn't let that mission that was so successful that they did go on without feeling like he was somewhat in control of it. I just don't understand the impulse. But it seemed like he seemed like he gave away so much a diplomatic currency by saying, yeah, I was actually negotiating with them, but I was with Israel the whole time. It's like, well, now anybody else, you negotiate, what do you think they're thinking? They're wondering if they're going to get their fucking window blown open. Right?

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, yep, yep.

[Jon Favreau]

I think with Trump is he doesn't necessarily have an ideology. He has a bit. And the bit is he identifies something that people are pissed about.

[Akash Singh]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

He tells them who's at fault for it. He then says, all right, I'm gonna fix it. He tries to do something to fix it that may or may not work. And then he just claims victory anyway and hopes to move on to the next thing. And he doesn't really think about like the long term consequences of what he promises or what he says because he's just trying to win the news cycle, right? Like, he's just trying to get to the next day. Cuz that's all. That's how he thinks. He's like a, he's a TV guy.

[Akash Singh]

How can we get Democrats to do that more? That shit feels good, guys.

[Jon Favreau]

It does feel good.

[Akash Singh]

It does feel good.

[Jon Favreau]

But then you get, then you get fucked when you actually get into office and you're. And that's just what's happening with Trump now. You know, he makes promises to like two different groups of people. Promises that are like opposed to each other. You can't possibly do both of them. And then, you know, you get into office and now you're fuck. Like end the war. End the war in Ukraine in a day. Or like, I'm not going to add to the, the, I'm not going to add to the deficit, but I'm also going to extend tax cuts for like the richest Americans. Like you can't do both those things.

[Akash Singh]

I mean, you can do the last thing you said and we'll just look the other way. But you know, listen, we're doing all right. It's a nice podcast, dude. But yeah, the first thing is horrible. Okay, Yes.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, I do think Democrats can learn from Trump. He, he understands the sort of new attention economy. He understands the Internet. Like we should try to do the things he does and emulate those. Like going to McDonald's was a genius move and serving people food as it was. But I didn't answer your question about what the Democratic Party should do. Like we have to provide an alternative that is better. And I want it to be anti war. Like what if, what if when you authorize military force, you have to vote on it every year. It needs to be at sunsets after 12 months.

[Akash Singh]

Great idea.

[Tommy Vietor]

Or else. Or what about we should be for working people. We should lower taxes, we should have better schools. There should be a make childcare affordable. We need a broad reform agenda that is not just about Washington. There's that part. It's like don't take lobbyist money. But also no congressional stock trading. Lifetime ban on these fucking congressmen becoming lobbyists. And then there does have to be something about this gerontocracy issue because, like, I really do think we need some sort of term limits for congressional committee chairs or something that allows fresh blood to circulate up so those people end up running.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, if you can't hold your head up, like Schumer's head is coming out of the middle of his chest. So I feel like if you don't have like the neck strength to hold your head up straight, then we got to yank you out of politics immediately.

[Ro Khanna]

Right?

[Mark Yagnon]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. You can't be like doing a video where you're like hunched over in your chair yelling about Trump tackling. You know, that's gonna fucking break through really well. But I do think, like, and you guys have talked about this too, like Trump has these ideas that are just their policy ideas in theory, but they're also just easy to understand. So it's like build the wall. Oh yeah, I get building the wall. And you guys talked about Mamdani, right? Like everyone who just paid attention to that race even a little bit, you know that, you know, he wants to freeze the rent and wants free city buses. Right? Like, those are just easy things to understand. And I think sometimes Democrats, when we come up with our policy agenda, it's like a 10 point plan and it involves fucking refundable tax credits. And no one knows what the hell that is. And you just got to make the policy ideas both bold and simple to understand, accessible for people. And then you actually got to have a plan to make it, to pass it.

[Akash Singh]

Right?

[Jon Favreau]

Like, you can't just promise a bunch of shit and then not be able to do it.

[Akash Singh]

It doesn't matter how well intentioned your idea is or how helpful it is if you cannot communicate it to us in a way that is digestible and enticing. You know, freeze rent is amazing. I don't even rent and I'm like, I, like, can I freeze my mortgage? Like I, I want everything frozen, right? Like, yes. Now the question I have for you guys is you've seen like the rise of Mandani, obviously in New York work and pushing certain policies and you talk to different people about how easily they will be executed. You know, I have some guys, you know, friends of mine who are in real estate, obviously biased, but they'll say certain things like the downstream effects of this are going to put us in the same position we are right now. I'm sure you've heard of like the ghost department situation in New York, which is downstream from these like rent freezes. I think there was like a 2019 law passed that said that you, once you were rent stabilized, you couldn't ever move away from that. So then these landlords just never renovated the apartments and now they're just sitting there baking, et cetera, of this rise in the democratic socialist side of the party. How effectively do you think they will be able to administer some of these changes, or do you think some of this is kind of similar to Trump in that it sounds really great, but it won't be able to be implemented and then the people will be kind of frustrated?

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. My biggest worry about Mamdani is that he's not going to be able to. To deliver on the big promises he's made. And because I think part of it is not just. Not because of him, just because of the job itself. Like, he's going to have to get approval from Albany on taxes, raising a bunch of taxes and stuff like that. And so if you don't have that, then you have problems. The housing issue where I am on this is rent. Freezing does sound great rate. Ultimately, you're not going to solve the housing problem without building more housing. And I think more housing, more supply is probably a more important thing to get done than just freezing rent, because you freeze rent of people who are already in there and then they don't leave. And the real challenge is, what about people who don't have a place to live, who can't afford to even rent an apartment, who can't afford to buy a house? So you actually just need to build a lot more housing now, what I like about Mamdani is, I think, having listened to him a bunch of times, I think he's more reasonable than his criticism, critics suggest. And he's more like, willing to compromise with people and find ways to get stuff done. And I do think he knows that he's gonna be judged on whether he actually improves affordability in New York. So, like, does he get the rent control thing done? Does he get the free city bus done? We don't know. But can he point to a whole bunch of things he's done after a couple years in office and say, well, look, rent, you know, affordability. People can afford to live in New York now, or at least they can afford to live in New York a little bit more than they could. And I delivered on that promise. So I do think that that, like, delivering on the promises is. I worry about that for him more than I worry about, oh, he's going to become some radical leftist who destroys the city.

[Akash Singh]

What if, what if he. What if he delivers on none of the promises but agrees to go to Israel three times in the first year?

[Tommy Vietor]

God, I cannot believe this election has become about that.

[Akash Singh]

I mean, I would also say crazy, right?

[Tommy Vietor]

It's so fucking stupid. I mean, he, look, he. I talking to his folks, like, I don't think they think the general election is a done deal. The Numbers get complicated.

[Akash Singh]

It's not.

[Ro Khanna]

Look.

[Akash Singh]

Look at that. Yeah. Polling.

[Tommy Vietor]

He's at, like 40% in the polling. There's Eric Adams running, that Cuomo is going to run. There's this Republican guy. And, like, he's got some work to do. Like, older African American voters in particular, I think kind of like normie Jewish voters, normie Democrats in Manhattan. I think he's got some challenges, and I think you can solve that through politics, through conversations, like going to a ton of synagogues, meeting people, talking to them. Because, Andrew, I remember what you said about kind of the awakening you had about anti Semitism after October 7th. Yeah. Well, just that, like, my wife's Jewish. Like, we have a lot. Had a lot of similar conversations. And just that feeling of, like, seeing people celebrating a horrific massacre of innocent people.

[Akash Singh]

Horrible.

[Ro Khanna]

Horrible.

[Tommy Vietor]

And how shocking that was and how frightening how that led people to feel unsafe. And those feelings have not gone away for a lot of people. At the same time, I think the war in Gods Gaza has become this humanitarian catastrophe.

[Akash Singh]

Abomination.

[Tommy Vietor]

Abomination. Morally, strategically, everything. So two things can be true. But I do think he's gonna have to talk to these folks who sort of had feelings like you did and say, look, you know what? Upon reflection, I realize that globalized intifada hits a certain way for you, and it's hurtful, and I'm sorry. And that's not something that's okay.

[Jon Favreau]

He's going to have to figure out a way to localize the intifada.

[Ro Khanna]

I think.

[Akash Singh]

I think it's halal. Goes back to $8. Does that count as localized?

[Mark Yagnon]

All right, guys, listen. I know I'm all about bitcoin, and here's what I've learned. I should not invest in any other coins. Kraken gave us some money to Invest. I lost $7,000 last time out of 10.

[Akash Singh]

Wow. So.

[Mark Yagnon]

So that's almost hard. So this time they gave me more money. All I'm doing is bitcoin. That's it. I'm not around with fartcoin anymore. Everybody's sending their meme coins yourselves. It's bitcoin only for me. What about you guys?

[Akash Singh]

I think I'm mostly bitcoin, too, and I think I've been doing okay. Little eth, you're up the most. I think I'm up the most. Yeah. I'll be honest, I didn't pick them.

[Mark Yagnon]

But you had a Jewish person pick it. Yeah. You had your handler.

[Akash Singh]

That's going to have my Jewish handler pick it. That's Smart and working, working out. So you're winning.

[Tommy Vietor]

Also got gold.

[Mark Yagnon]

A lot of gold, a lot of diamonds.

[Ro Khanna]

I bought real estate.

[Akash Singh]

No, I doubled down an Epstein coin and it's crushing right now, dude. I'm like, I'm through the roof, dude. They shouldn't make that. I don't even know that's.

[Mark Yagnon]

You know, they don't ever show you the results of Alex.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, Trump said there's actually no coin. What the hell? What did I put all my money in? This is crazy.

[Mark Yagnon]

And then now you're pretty much break even, right?

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, I broke even.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

But listen, guys, whatever you believe in, Kraken has a special offer going on for all flagrant fans. You sign up on the Kraken mobile [e-mail] flagrant and use the coin flagrant 25. And you get 25 in free Bitcoin that could be worth a billion dollars. One day.

[Akash Singh]

One day.

[Mark Yagnon]

You never know. Also, just so you know, if it wasn't clear for me, telling you, I've lost 70 of my money. This is not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss and is offered to US customers, excluding Wyoming.

[Akash Singh]

New York and Where's Watt?

[Mark Yagnon]

Oh, goddamn. Excluding Washington, Maine, thank God. Through PayWord Interactive, Inc. All right, guys.

[Akash Singh]

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[Akash Singh]

I think you make a great point in, like, I mean, it is. It is just so tricky because I listen, I'm not even Jewish. Everybody thinks I'm Jewish. So I get all the anti Semitism, right? So, like, it's real.

[Mark Yagnon]

None of the benefits.

[Akash Singh]

I don't get any of the iq. I don't get any of the hedge fund access. I just get the anti Semitism, you know? So it's like. So it is out there. It is 100% real. And I think that there's just. There's obviously tons of people who are anti Semitic. I think there's also tons of people who, like, really feel for what's happening in Gaza. And then they conflate, like, believing Israel should exist with believing you should just keep bombing Gaza. And I think it's. It's hard for a lot of people to even, like, separate that issue. Like, we're all sitting here right now and we're just going like, hey, this has been going on for two years. It's rubble. Their kids dying, their adults die. Like, it's not just kids. It's like, everybody's fucking dying. So that needs to stop. You could think that, but also be like, I don't think that we should fucking attack Jews in this. Like, there's videos of people just chasing around Hasidic Jews. Is it funny? Yeah, but it's wrong. You know, it's. It's. No, it's not funny. But, but, but, yeah, there has to be. There has to be. There has to be a space. You know, there has to be a space.

[Mark Yagnon]

I need to see the video before I decide if it's funny or not.

[Akash Singh]

No, no, it's, it's. No, it's just, it's. There has to be a space for the conversation. And we can't just immediately throw around anti Semitism whenever people disagree about an independent nations policy that we are actually supporting. Right. So. Yes. Yeah. How do you guys. How do you guys. What do you think the best way to handle that is? Do you guys. Do you guys get criticism when you take a hard line on that? Like, what is.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, the head of the ADL called me an anti Semite in a New York Post op ed.

[Akash Singh]

Like, no. For saying what?

[Tommy Vietor]

Because I said that Bibi Netanyahu had dragged the United States into war with Iran. I said, Trump got forced.

[Akash Singh]

He got duped. He got duped, right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Netanyahu started a war and he knew that to blow up the Fordo facility, he needed the US to do it for him. So I'm not sure. Like, that just seems like a statement of fact. He decided, this guy, Jonathan Greenblatt decided that was anti Semitic. And what upsets me about that is it is weaponizing a very serious problem, which is anti Semitism in this country, to try to silence your political opponents. And it makes me viscerally angry because my daughter goes to a Jewish preschool school, and when I drop her off, I go through like six, seven layers of security. Security guards, guys with guns.

[Akash Singh]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, I understand on a personal level, like, where this fear comes from in the Jewish community. The suggestion that me criticizing Trump or Bibi's Iran policy makes me an anti Semit, makes me so angry that, like, I want to lash out about it.

[Ro Khanna]

Right.

[Akash Singh]

And so it also, the conversation numbs people to the word. And it's not a word we should be saying. Come to.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

And people should be able to figure out the difference between, like, criticizing a government and criticizing a policy and criticizing people's religion and their ethnicity. I mean, even, like, when, you know, it always bothers us when you criticize Trump and then Trump and some maga, people try to be like, oh, you're anti American, you hate America. If you criticize me, it's like, no, I fucking love America. I just don't like you running it. You know, like, that is the same. I mean, it's similar to the criticism of Israel. Like, I think the Israeli government's making a horrible mistake. You know, I think it's been a fucking catastrophe. But also, like, people have to have. I also think principles that are universal. So it's not hard to say, like, yes, the killing of innocent civilians, men, women and children is horrific, no matter who does it. Treating people Differently because of what they believe, whether they're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, whatever is wrong. It's just like wrong across the board. And you should just be able to like, if you're gonna have principle that and you feel that strongly about it, it just has to be universal. It has to be across the board.

[Akash Singh]

There's a sentiment, I think that's like beautifully said and I think that's what most people actually feel. And I think what often happens is when you throw around these pejoratives, like when you call, call everything anti Semit, Semitism, when it's really not, it's like a criticism of government, you'll keep talking about it, right? Because you guys have a platform. You also like maybe will deal with the slander or whatever it is. Most people won't. Most people got a regular job and they're like, I don't want that label. And then they just be quiet. And then what it does is it forces the conversation to the extremes. Who are the people that don't care if you call them anti semis because they're like, yeah, I'm an anti Semite, they just say it blatantly. So now Nick Fuentes is the one controlling the conversation on something that should be a lot more nuanced probably. So I wonder why Greenblatt doesn't see this. I mean he's got to, he's got to be aware of what the downstream effects of using that word far too much much are.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think there is a belief that you can silence critics and police their speech. And I think conversations around Israel, Palestine have been some of the most policed conversations and policies in Washington for a very long time. And like someone like me or John or Ben Rhodes, a guy I do a foreign policy podcast with, like, we would be excommunicated from that city if we ever tried to get like a Senate confirmed job again because of comments like this. And a lot of like kind of careerist strivers in Washington see that, they clock in and they kind of, you know, play within the 40 yard lines. And I think that's a huge problem because it leads to policy blind spots.

[Mark Yagnon]

I think that is a big optics problem for Democrats in that I think there's a certain underlying moral superiority within the Democratic Party that we are the morally superior party. But then we see you be very silent on these atrocities. Not you guys, but like these institutional Democrats. And I think a lot of modern people are very put off by, you're telling me you're so morally superior, but you're clearly for Sale and have an agenda. And that makes me very put off by this entire party.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, and this goes back to when Andrew got criticized for this is what you voted for, which is. It's this feeling that, like, obviously Trump is bad. Obviously his policies are bad. Everyone should know that. Everyone should know that he's a race is horrible, whatever. And if you don't, then fuck you, then you deserve what you get.

[Akash Singh]

And.

[Jon Favreau]

And that might be satisfying to certain people personally, but it's not gonna move the ball forward. And we gotta think, like, what's our ultimate goal here? Is our ultimate goal to just be, like, right on the Internet?

[Akash Singh]

It's so selfish.

[Jon Favreau]

Or is the goal to pass policies that we deeply believe in that are gonna improve people's lives? Because if that's the goal, then we're gonna need to have a bigger coalition than a bunch of white liberals.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah, I never knew what we're down to.

[Akash Singh]

It's just so selfish. And it's just like. Like, it's clicks, views, attention, pats on the back, but it gets you nowhere. There's no, like, what about the midterms? What about the election? I mean, in that same conversation where.

[Mark Yagnon]

You'Re, like, criticizing Trump, you're also tacitly encouraging the dsa.

[Akash Singh]

And, like, if you're someone that is a fan of Mamdani, they see someone like, you, like, encouraging, like, you know.

[Jon Favreau]

Democrat socialists, like, why would they not.

[Akash Singh]

Jump all over that and say, finally, okay, we got this guy on our side, like, he's. He's coming around to what we believe in our agenda, instead letting their ego get in the way.

[Jon Favreau]

It's just, like, such terrible policy.

[Akash Singh]

It's. It's.

[Mark Yagnon]

I've never seen it.

[Akash Singh]

I don't know. I feel like there are people that grift all over the place. Right? But, like, it is the equal and opposite grift. Like, there's the Trump grift for sure. Everything Trump does is right. And you go along with everything he does, and he's playing 40 chess and all this. And then there's the everything Trump does is wrong grift, and you get the same views, but it's not real. Right? You satisfy that, like, primal urge in people. And I understand people are frustrated. I get it. That's totally fine. Like, I'll meet you where you are emotionally 100%. But I don't like this claim that they're actually trying to, like, make the world a better place and they actually care about where this goes. It's like, if your view, if Your video gets 5,000 views, I promise you'll never mention it again. And if it gets a million, you'll talk about it non stop for the next two months. Like, let's just be honest about what it is. Everybody's clocking each other's shit and they're just writing the exact same headline. I saw it happen over the last two days. It's like none of you guys care about building anything.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's where the Epstein stuff came from, I think, because a lot of people like Bongino and Cash Patel kind of started talking about it and it built and built and built and it got them a following.

[Akash Singh]

I think Bonnie too. I think Bonnie got caught up in like, I, I think she kind of wanted a moment. She's like, I'm, you know, I'm trying to build myself a larger career here. She has bigger aspirations. She's like, it's on my desk. Without really understanding what she meant with it's on my desk.

[Tommy Vietor]

Totally. But yeah, she brought in those influencers and gave him the binders to tie.

[Mark Yagnon]

It back to what you guys are saying. And I'm, I'm harping on this with you because you have such a powerful voice within Democrats. But like, in my lifetime, I've never seen a party, political party, I as obsessed with excluding people. And the irony is Democrats seem to love talking about inclusivity ad nauseam. Inclusivity, Inclusivity, inclusivity. But if somebody steps out of line from what we want them to say, fuck you forever, you have no chance of redemption.

[Akash Singh]

How do Dems fix that?

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, one thing, I mean, look, I think there was a huge problem among Democrats that was particularly a few years ago about not having conversations with people we disagree with. I got invited to go on a bar. I said, no, I don't think I can do that, man. Because like my audience would get upset about some things Portnoy said. And I think back to that and I'm embarrassed and I'm mad at myself because like, how am I going to speak to that barstool audience if I don't go on those shows, right? So that was fucking stupid. I'm embarrassed about it and we're course correcting. I think a lot of Democrats are doing similar course corrections. You saw it when like Bernie endorsed Rogan endorsed Bernie and Bernie put out a press release about it and he got attacked by a lot of Democrats about it. So I think we're learning from those mistakes. I do think, think there has to be. I do think we're kind of A more mly coalition of diverse voices than the Republicans are right now.

[Akash Singh]

Like, I guess I would just push.

[Tommy Vietor]

Back a little bit on the idea. Democrats can be annoying, we can be scoldy, but I think sometimes, like, it's online mobs more than the party.

[Jon Favreau]

You know, I was going to say, like, I actually think Democratic politicians in general have been good about this and have only gotten better, especially since the election. But I think what, you know, what people experience when you're paying attention to the news or you're following politics is the influencers, the people online. And look, Trump, as we're seeing with the Epstein files, Trump just, like, just doing everything that. Just letting the base drive him wherever he wants to and over promising, like, that's going to get him into trouble. And I think that the challenge for Democratic leaders and Democratic politicians is to push back on shit like that whenever. When people aren't being inclusive and people don't want to build a big tent. I remember, like, Sarah McBride, a first trans member of Congress, when Mike Johnson and Nancy Mace tried to do that bathroom bill to, like, prevent her from using. Using a bathroom. And, you know, she responded by being like, well, I'm gonna follow the rules, but I didn't come here to argue about these issues. And I'm gonna try to make people's lives in Delaware a lot better. And a lot of, like, online activists in the trans community just, like, attack and still attack her to this day. And it's like, this is the first trans member of Congress. And like, imagine sort of the burden on her shoulders and what she's trying to do is say, you know what? Sometimes we need to be more inclusive. Sometimes we need to focus on she's not picking the fight. And so it's like, why are you criticizing her for that? Because, like, that fight might make you feel good, but what she's trying to figure out is both how to make sure there are more trans members of Congress, and also even more importantly, how to make sure that she delivers on the promises she made to the people who put her in your office in the first place.

[Akash Singh]

There was, when Pete came on the pod, he told this great story about, like, I think he, like, first started dating his now husband or something like that. And there was this woman, like, worked in his office, and she was like a, you know, I think maybe a little more conservative religious woman, right? And she said something to him like, I met your friend. And he was. He was very polite or he's very nice or something. And he met her where she was amongst emotionally, he knew that for her to say that it was a much bigger leap than the average person. That would just be like, I'm so proud and you're so brave and all this other, like, yes, queen. Like, he was able to recognize what that meant for her. I thought that was like very emotionally intelligent. Right? He could go, what do you mean, my friend? He could scold her. And I think to what Akash is saying is like that sentiment and maybe it is online, like, I think the sentiment is like Republicans, it's like you could shoot someone in the head. But if you're like, listen, I believe in small businesses. They go, all right, he's a good guy. And then with Democrats, it's like, I believe in trans rights, gay rights, black rights, but Asians shouldn't go to Harvard. You're like, what the fuck are you talking about? All it takes is one thing. And then online, at least the rhetoric is you're scolded and you're out.

[Tommy Vietor]

You're right. Trump saw a political opportunity by welcoming RFK Jr into the fold. And all of a sudden there's a prominent Democrat named Kennedy who's cabinet secretary. So he's been a genius on that front for sure. And Democrats, you're right. Sometimes we have a laundry list of things and you don't check all the boxes. We don't allow you in the tent. I do think the solution here is getting back to Obama era politics. He was actually brilliant about this and emotionally intelligent about this because he understood that he just tried to connect with people on a human level and he understood that people would misstep and that people had different views about race or abortion rights or things, or maybe said things that offended him. But if he could connect to them or make them think that he was gonna help their lives, he could get their votes. And I think that's the right approach. Okay, do you think that still works though? Because we see the way Trump handles things and clearly he appeals to a lot of people and he is not. He doesn't give much grace at all.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, he doesn't. I mean, look, I think part of the challenge today too is the sort of information environment and like all of the incentives to our earlier conversation about the attention economy just pull you in the direction of simplicity, of yelling about things, of being like really strident, making everything black and white. And you know, it's. You hear, you know, when you hear like Pete on your podcast or I just, you know, listened to Gavin Newsom for four hours on Sean Ryan's podcast, like, you hear in a space like that, you get all the complexities and the nuance. And you'll hear politicians, you'll be like, oh, I didn't like this guy when. Or this girl when I, like, saw them on tv. But now, like, you know, they're a little more complex than I thought. But television, social media, like, it doesn't allow for that. And so I think Democrat, it's easier for Trump, because Trump's message is, well, I'm just gonna burn everything down because you're all pissed, and I get it. And so I'm just gonna tear the whole system down. And that's, like, an easy message to get across. And the Democratic message is, look, we have to work together with this very fractious coalition and this, like, very diverse country to sort of build something together that's gonna be better for people. And that's like, you know, people are f board already just hearing that sentence.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, we're the. We're the earnest losers.

[Akash Singh]

It sucks.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, Democrat space. We're like, actually, we think, you know, government can be good. And the reason I don't think there's a ton of conspiracies is because mostly people are incompetent and they can't keep secret. You know, it's like boring, lame answers like that. And it's like, yeah, the burn it down stuff is fun.

[Akash Singh]

There's. I know you guys got to go in a few minutes, but two things. One, Veter, I know that you're a Kenyan college graduate. My dad went to Kenyon.

[Tommy Vietor]

No way.

[Jon Favreau]

Wow.

[Ro Khanna]

Wow.

[Akash Singh]

And his good friend and, I believe, roommate at part of time, there was a guy named Paul Kluge. Did you take any of Kluge's classes?

[Tommy Vietor]

Now I know the name. I absolutely know the name.

[Akash Singh]

Kind of a legend over there, so I thought maybe you might take it. But. But. But all good. And then separate separately from that. Who is. I know we have, like, a couple minutes here. So who do you guys think. Think that you would like to see?

[Mark Yagnon]

I was gonna ask that.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah. Who would you like to see run at this point right now? Who do you think has the juice and who you think could execute the plan and bring some people maybe that the Democratic Party lost back over and.

[Mark Yagnon]

You can give a couple of names.

[Tommy Vietor]

It killed Yaya. Sinwar.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm gonna be very honest because I've now been through a couple cycles where I've regretted. Regretted listing off a bunch of names that didn't go too well. Like, there's no one right now that I think could be, is gonna be like a winning presidential candidate. That does not mean that all the people mentioned that are, that are often mentioned can't, like, grow into becoming an excellent candidate and ultimately an excellent president. Like, that's what campaigns are for. And a lot of people grow during a campaign, but right now I just think it's tough. And there's a lot of Democrats who are out there, who, who are. They look like, they're always, like, just reading the stage directions, here's what we're supposed to say, and here's the right message. That'll work. And I want more of these candidates to, you know, sit down on shows like yours, or like, here's my advice to them. Like, when something in the news happens, when there's a development, before you look online, before you watch tv, before you ask your staff about it, just like, stop and think about how you feel about it. Like, what is your genuine reaction to what just happened? Write it down and then start there. And if you need to, like, you know, massage the language and this or that because your advisor tell you that's fine, but at least start with what you believe in your gut. And I feel like because Trump has won twice now and we've been through a decade of this, people have just stopped trusting their instincts, which I get is understandable, but I think people at least need to go back to trusting their instincts because you could be wrong, but that's much better than just bullshitting your way through it, which people can tell immediately.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, the two things that I think I'm in a similar place, like, there's no one, if I. There's no one who I would quit this job for right now and go work on their campaign. There's no one, like, kind of like you know, getting the heart going. I do feel like it's more likely to be someone from outside of Washington because even after Trump, I still think there is just such a high distrust in institutions and the establishment and just frustration with the status quo. And by the way, you're seeing that, like everywhere. It's not just the United States. Like in Germany, they just had an election election. And among young, you track this. The afd, like, young men went to the AFD and young women went to the far left parties. And they all said you to the establishment.

[Akash Singh]

Spain right now, in Spain right now, you're seeing the exact same conversation about immigration that we're having right here. Like, yeah. So you're seeing it all over the place.

[Mark Yagnon]

So may I ask why AOC wouldn't necessarily captivate you guys. I'm not even being critical. I'm just curious.

[Jon Favreau]

Look, she. She does captivate me. I think she's like a. One of the best messengers in the party. I think she's genuine, authentic. I think that because she has had many years in the public eye, opinions about her from people who are. Who don't pay close attention to politics are very even are still pretty polarized. Like, she's got the curse and the Blessing of almost 100% name ID, which means that a lot of people have four formed opinions of her. Now, can she turn those opinions around to, like, win purple states in a. In a general election? I don't know. Maybe. But I think that it's. It's tough. It's, you know, it's tougher. But, like, who knows?

[Akash Singh]

She.

[Jon Favreau]

She at least, you know, she's at least genuine and very inspiring.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I mean, I didn't mention her just because, like, I don't think she's going to run, but I do think she would scratch a lot of, like, important criteria. One is just social media fluency, like, knows how to communicate with people in 2025. And it can't just be like, you know, ads on Jeopardy or whatever. And also just authenticity, like the fact that she was a bartender. Sometimes Republicans make fun of her for that. That is like, the best part about her. She's a human being. She had a job where she worked with her fucking hands. Like, when Obama was elected, he and Michelle had just paid off their student loans. They lived in a little condo like they were normal people or like the closest thing to normal you could be when you get elected president. And I think it's gotta be someone like that that feels connected, because in 2016, 2016, voters were telling us, like, we're sick of the establishment. We're sick of Washington. And we were like, hey, here's Hillary Clinton, a person you've known about.

[Akash Singh]

Who'S.

[Jon Favreau]

Had a lot of people killed.

[Tommy Vietor]

Not Epstein yet.

[Akash Singh]

Yes.

[Ro Khanna]

Okay. Okay.

[Akash Singh]

Before you go, because I know you got to go. You guys both worked intimately with Obama. Big Obama fans over here. Can you give us an Obama story? Obama. Oh, an Obama. Just a fun little Obama story. Anything.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm trying to think of a good.

[Tommy Vietor]

Can we take a.

[Akash Singh]

We can cut it if you don't. If you don't want.

[Tommy Vietor]

Can you just cut this guy's name?

[Akash Singh]

So a good buddy of mine just said, by the way. Got it, got it, got it. That is cut from the record. Okay.

[Tommy Vietor]

A Good friend of ours was in the car with, I think it was then Senator Obama, and it was like, two younger guys and him, and he's.

[Akash Singh]

Like, so who are you guys dating?

[Tommy Vietor]

He asked the first. First guy. And then this other friend of ours was in the back, and he's like, so, like, person, who are you dating? And our friend goes, I'm gay. And he's like, yeah, you got game, you got game? And he's like, no, no, I'm gay.

[Akash Singh]

And like, yeah, you got game.

[Tommy Vietor]

No, sir, I'm saying that I'm gay. And he's like, oh, well, there's lots of cute guys.

[Akash Singh]

I love that Obama was just so happy and accepting that there is clearly, for a moment, someone with severe autism in the back of his car working on the campaign. I got game. I got game. Anyway, boys, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate you guys. I wish you the best of luck. And we got to get you in studio when you're in New York. Absolutely, absolutely. Cheers, guys. Thanks for having me so much. Thank you. All right, guys, before we get to this Ro Khanna conversation, I want to talk a little bit about a fight this weekend that I'm very excited, but also I'm almost, like, sad about. So Dustin Poirier and Max Holloway are fighting this weekend, and this is going to be Dustin's last fight.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah, dude, that's. Oh, that's sad.

[Akash Singh]

I have a suspicion, though. I think if he wins in convincing fashion, it's not his last fight. I think if Dustin wins, he challenges Ilia Toria for the belt. They give him one more. Like, if he wins in, like, devastating fashion. It's really exciting. He's still the UFC's biggest star right now. Like, him and Max are probably the biggest star. Yeah. And I think it'd be one more shot at the title. Also going up against Ilya. Ilya is coming up in weight. They're both strikers. Dustin has amazing hands. He always does well against guys who can strike. Now, Max, on the other hand, is just Max. He's unbelievable. He's a dog. Like, they fought once before. Dustin won, but, you know, when Max came up in weight and then knocked out Gaethje. Yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy. So. And Max's incredible hand. It's gonna be an amazing fight. They're just both unbelievable. But, like, if Max wins, then Max fights Ilya again at 155. I don't know. A lot of cool happened. What do you guys think? There's a part of me If I'm Dustin, I mean, this is how I know I'm not Dustin, is that if.

[Jon Favreau]

I win, I'm just walking off.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

You know, you just hang it up.

[Akash Singh]

You get to leave a legend. Like, you do a whole thing, you know, you put your gloves in the middle of the cage, call it a day. But I just think Dustin, you know, if you win, you're like, yeah, it let me get the belt one more time. If, and if you lose, you're like, let me do one. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how you walk away from that. No, it's. It's probably. Yeah, it's just probably the most exciting thing in the world. And everything else is so mind boggling. Boring.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Akash Singh]

There's like an adrenaline rush. Has to be.

[Mark Yagnon]

Sucks.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, right? Like, yeah. But yeah, you need to do something like dangerous. You need a skydive, like. Yeah. Imagine someone's like, hey, it's going to be your last show and you do an arena.

[Jon Favreau]

It's the greatest show you've ever done in your life.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, we're going to do another show. Yeah, we'll do one more. Like, but then if you bomb, you're like, well, I can't end on that. You know what I mean? So no matter what happens, you just go to literally just keep stretching it out. Oh, that's brutal.

[Mark Yagnon]

There's not really a risk of CTE with performing at an arena, though.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, that's true.

[Akash Singh]

That is true.

[Mark Yagnon]

It's very minimal.

[Akash Singh]

But also if you begin, you know, you've been fighting guys for 20 years.

[Jon Favreau]

You'Re like, yeah, I got it.

[Mark Yagnon]

Like, I don't know, I just like fighting. He like, not even before he was a fighter. That's what impressed me with Gaichi. I was, you know, you, you interview these guys, you really like get worried for them. And I was like worried when he's fighting Gaethji, like Gate Biggie, he's gonna throw hands. And again, I'm very casual, but I was like, this seems like a scary fight. And then Max just kind of dominated that fight.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

So initially I'm scared him fighting Dustin, but I don't know, man. I guess you can't ever underestimate this guy.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

Max is a dog, man. Yeah. Anyway, stakes, the leader of Globe betting and US social casinos bet on top sports political events. Use the promo code flagrant for your welcome bonus. Now let's get back to the show. But that's not all, folks. Today we are also joined by a complete anomaly. A Politician actually fighting to release the Epstein files and end pointless wars. I once described him as not only a congressman, but a dish. We are very excited to speak to him while he's still alive. Give it up for Ro Khanna, everybody. Love it. Thank you so much, first of all, for being here. I know that you have, you know, the techno feudalist, the tech feudalists or whatever they're called, are ringing you left and right, trying to push agendas in. So thank you for squeezing us into your time and that you have a beautiful plant over your right shoulder for your.

[Ro Khanna]

Your dish comment has become folklore in my family when you ask, you know, what is rokana? What kind of dish? So it become now like a running joke in. In my family.

[Akash Singh]

All right, well, when we all retire and we open, like a small Punjabi Hindu restaurant, then we can decide what goes on the menu.

[Ro Khanna]

You didn't say. Well, you know, I mean, don't say chicken tikka masala. That's going to be non answers. Butter chicken dish other than chicken tikka masala.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, like, I got like a lamb rogan Josh or something like that. There you go.

[Ro Khanna]

Okay, that's now. So now I know you've an Indian restaurant.

[Akash Singh]

What is this guy. This guy's talking to?

[Ro Khanna]

That's pretty good.

[Akash Singh]

You know, I grew up in his village.

[Ro Khanna]

I'm.

[Akash Singh]

I'm in the heart of India.

[Ro Khanna]

My.

[Akash Singh]

My.

[Ro Khanna]

My favorite thing is hala puri, which I'm sure Akash knows, but.

[Akash Singh]

Hala puri?

[Ro Khanna]

Yes.

[Mark Yagnon]

No, I've never had hala puri.

[Akash Singh]

Halua.

[Mark Yagnon]

Like the sweet thing?

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, the sweet thing. You got. You got alo hala.

[Mark Yagnon]

I never had that weird in my life. Dude.

[Akash Singh]

I like it.

[Ro Khanna]

How would you eat that Indian J.

[Mark Yagnon]

Are you doing.

[Akash Singh]

What is the. What is the thing that I said? You look like a galap jamon.

[Mark Yagnon]

Galap jamon?

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

I look like a gal that.

[Ro Khanna]

Those are. Those are fighting words.

[Akash Singh]

It was a compliment. It was. It was a nice thing to say. It was on his wedding. I said, you look like a galob jamma with teeth. And.

[Mark Yagnon]

He said that about young me, which is accurate.

[Ro Khanna]

That's true.

[Akash Singh]

That is true. That's true. He was a little kid.

[Ro Khanna]

He was adorable.

[Akash Singh]

He was pudgy, beautiful.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

Anyway, dude, let's get to the important stuff. You're about to, you know, show how many of our congressmen are pedophiles. How does that feel?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, look, it's a pretty. Pretty simple thing. And it. And to me, it's. Whose side are you on? Are you going to be on the side of the rich and powerful basically getting their own justice? Or are you going to be on the side of people, people who were participating in this being exposed? And I don't think it's a partisan issue. We should just release these files. People say, well, why didn't you do this earlier? And I didn't do it in the first Trump administration or Biden administration. But the reality is you now have had the attorney general tell the whole country that there's a list and you had the president say that he's going to release it. So it's now become bigger than the Epstein files. It's an issue of trust. People feel that the rich and powerful are the thumb on the scale they're screwing. Folks, life is hard. This has now become an issue of crust.

[Mark Yagnon]

What do you think about the list? Do you think it exists? Do you think there are powerful politicians and businessmen on that list? What are your specific thoughts?

[Ro Khanna]

Yes, I think it exists. I mean, I think. Look, I don't know if there's a specific entries of here are the people who went to Epstein's island, but I think that there is evidence suggesting that there are a lot of power, powerful and rich people who were on these plane rides, who frequented some of these parties. And the standard at the DOJ is you don't release information unless someone is charged. And I get that, I get that you don't want to destroy people's lives, but this has become way too big. You have accusations now of intelligence agencies involved, of national security party involved. And so the President, like he campaigned, should just say, in this case, we're going to release everything. We're going to protect the victims, but we're going to release everything. So the American people. Can.

[Akash Singh]

Can you explain what the amendment is? Essentially, because you're proposing an amendment, right?

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

And what would that make Congress do? Exactly.

[Ro Khanna]

So basically, if the amendment passes, it would require Pam Bondi to release the list and any evidence, any files within. Within 30 days.

[Akash Singh]

But before, before that, just proposing the amendment would make each congressman go up in front of Congress and say whether they're pro releasing it or against releasing it. Right?

[Ro Khanna]

Absolutely right.

[Akash Singh]

That to me is the most interesting thing, because then you get to see who's in the pocket, if there is a pocket to be inside of.

[Ro Khanna]

Totally agree. But the secret, the dirty secret in Congress is it's not how you vote, it's what we're allowed to vote on.

[Akash Singh]

What does that mean?

[Ro Khanna]

Meaning that the speaker is going to try to probably stop this from coming to a vote. So I introduce it. Today's Monday, I introduce the amendment. And on Monday night, the Rules Committee of Congress meets. It's like the high priests, right? There are about nine people on this committee and they get to decide whether Congress even gets to vote on my amendment or not.

[Akash Singh]

Can you tell the good people right now that are watching, watching, hopefully millions, who those nine people are that get to decide whether or not we get to see if congressmen, congresswomen are supportive of releasing the Epstein file?

[Ro Khanna]

Who are those nine people? Let me get the, the exact names. I'll just look at.

[Mark Yagnon]

Do it. Look it up. Take your time.

[Ro Khanna]

Look it up right now. The who the, the Rules Committee is basically appointed by the speaker. But here are the.

[Akash Singh]

Take your time. There's no rush here. I just want to know who is accountable, who is responsible. Responsible because it seems like a pretty benevolent thing to do. Right.

[Ro Khanna]

The chairperson of the Rules Committee is a chair, Virginia Fox from North Carolina.

[Akash Singh]

Okay.

[Ro Khanna]

And you've got Jim McGovern, who's the ranking member. He's on the Democratic side.

[Akash Singh]

Okay.

[Ro Khanna]

And you've got Representative Michelle Fishbach from Minnesota, Representative Ralph Norman from South Carolina, Representative Chip Roy. I hope Chip votes for this. And Chip's usually for transparency. He's, he's a pretty independent minded guy. He's from Texas. You've got Aaron Hoshin from Indiana, Nicholas Langworthy from New York, Austin Scott from Georgia, Morgan Griffith from Virginia, Brian Jack from Georgia, Joe Negus, Teresa Lager, Mary Gay.

[Akash Singh]

These are the people. Is there anybody else or is that it? Okay, so these are the people that decide, decide if we get to know which Congress, women and men, would like the Epstein file to be released. These are the people that get to decide because it can't even go to the vote if they don't decide that it's worthy to be presented in Congress. Right.

[Ro Khanna]

You're absolutely right. And most people don't even know this. I mean, they just think, okay, Congressman gets up and you file an amendment, you file a bill, people should be able to vote on it. But there this committee first that the speaker of the Points. It's always nine people from the majority party and four people from the minority party. So the majority has it stacked in their favor and they vote on whether your amendment, whether your bill can even get a vote in the Congress. And a lot of times they allow Democratic bills to get a vote. But in this case, you know, I have my doubts. So I'm going to on the floor to make the speech. I'M talking to some of them individually, and I'm. I'm hoping they'll just say there is.

[Akash Singh]

Unanimous support in the United States of America for releasing all the information around the Epstein files. I can't fathom. I mean, you brought up an interesting point, which is like, if you're not charging somebody with a crime, releasing their information, there might be some sort of, I don't know if it's a breach in your civil rights. I'm not exactly sure what that would be like. If somebody's associated with something, but there isn't an allegation against them, what could that do to them and their life?

[Mark Yagnon]

Could they argue this sets a dangerous legal precedent and try to hide behind that?

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, that. That is, I think, what they will argue. You know, they'll say, look, there are hundreds and thousands of people who may have been caught up in an investigation. They may have gotten money from Jeffrey Epstein. They may have run into Jeffrey Epstein and a fundraiser. They may have had an email or a phone call or something fairly innocent. He may have funded a universe diversity program. And so now by putting all this out there, you're potentially harming their reputation. As a general matter, I agree with DOJ policy that you should not, if you're just investigating one individual, you know, leak stuff before you charge them, because the government then would be way too powerful if they could just do that for folks before they charge them. But in this case, where you have got the entire country outraged at a government that may be protecting the rich and the powerful, where you have got national security implications, where people are asking, whose side are you on? I think the President should say, I am making an exception because of the whole mistakes. We're going to release all the information. We're going to exempt the personal information of the victims, and I trust the American people to decide that. We're just going to get it out there. And I think people are fair enough. They're not going to be like, okay, you showed up to some fundraiser with Jeffrey Epstein and that that means you're a pedophile? I think people are capable of taking this information and making a reasonable conclusion.

[Tommy Vietor]

Do you have confidence that your bill will actually come up for a vote if you have the President telling everyone.

[Ro Khanna]

Hey, this is old news.

[Tommy Vietor]

Let's move past it and focus on other things?

[Ro Khanna]

No, I don't, because I think, you know, if I, if it was that easy, we would need to do podcasters or. So that's. Yeah, you know, it's. The sad reality is when it comes to reforming things. DC just doesn't allow votes ban PAC money. Ah, we don't need to vote on that. Ban Su. We don't need to vote on that. Massie and my bill, right, like we were. We Massey's a great Republican, independent minded. We do the war powers resolution saying, you know what, we don't need to be spending billions of dollars bombing Iran, having more troops in Iran and by the way, come to Congress before, before then, well, let's just not vote on Conan Massey's bill on war powers. The game in D.C. is not that they vote things down if they don't.

[Mark Yagnon]

Even vote at all.

[Akash Singh]

Wow, that's interesting. I wasn't aware of that either. I think so many Americans were just like ignorant to the actual system. We think we understand it because we learned in elementary school, but we don't really understand what it takes for a bill to get there. And then why is a person like you, like I was doing some research on you, you've never taken any patience PAC money. But why is a person like you impervious to the effects of these super. Super PACs, like a Bernie, for example, is also impervious when there are all these other politicians that seem absolutely petrified of pissing off the super PACs.

[Ro Khanna]

I'll just give you a candid answer. Look, I represent a district of Silicon Valley and so I have a lot of people who are more affluent there and they can give individual contributions. It's easier to raise money. Bernie is very principled, but he was a national, national figure. And so when you're a national figure, you get a lot of people who are willing to give you 10, $15. But if you're in a district that is not affluent and you know, like, you probably didn't recognize the names of any of the 13 members of Congress. I said, and no one knows who you are, then it's very difficult to raise money in this system without the pacs and without the lobbyists. So I don't have some holier than thou attitude. Not like Ro Khanna. Yeah, don't take PAC money. I don't think super my money because I can. The problem is the system. Now how do you fix the system? Ban super PACs. Summer Lee and I have a bill to do that. It's by the way, constitutional even under Citizens United. I don't want to get too in the weeds, but think about this Elon Musk, right? He can spend $250 million on a super PAC, but he's limited to only giving $7,000 to a candidate. So just have the same limits on super pacs as you have for candidates. And that would ban super PACs. And then you should ban all PACs and lobbyists from giving money and you should allow. I've said that we should have this thing called citizen Dollars, your democracy dollars. Everyone gets 100 bucks that they can spend on election campaigns. Every voter is a donor. But you need some broad campaign finance, so it's a fair system.

[Akash Singh]

And who are the politicians that currently stand in the way of executing those ideas?

[Ro Khanna]

That's not a list of 13 names.

[Akash Singh]

I know you're gonna have to just name off Congress, but like, I think it's important that Americans understand who the people are that are in the way of the things that we want. Because I think right now we just go, it's government. Oh, it's politicians. And there's this blanket statement and then there's a few of you that sprout up and you seem like these like rogue figures. And if you don't have a lot of support and backing and a social media presence, it's very easy to make you guys realize radioactive. We saw it happen with Bernie, it's definitely happened with Thomas Massie. It's very easy. And I imagine a lot of that money comes in through those super PACs. Right? So I think it's that kind of transparency is important so that when politicians vote against the will of the people, we are aware of it and we can vote them out.

[Ro Khanna]

No, totally agree. So as a start, There are about 10 of us who don't take any package money or any lobbyist money that people should be asking their members of Congress to join those that that group of no PACs and no lobbyists. But to get this vote on ending super PACs. Again, it comes to this Rules Committee, are they going to allow a vote on the amendment to end super PACs? And they aren't, by the way, realistically.

[Mark Yagnon]

Going to take to get that through Congress. Is it going to take a president getting elected who starts making it a.

[Akash Singh]

Big deal or what?

[Mark Yagnon]

Is there a way?

[Ro Khanna]

You know, the reason I supported Bernie Sanders is because he was actually going fight this stuff. I mean, that's what was a co chair of his campaign. Because he would have gotten on and he would have gone from the Oval Office or whatever and he'd be like, let me tell you, here are the people on the Rules Committee, here's why we're not getting a vote and I'm going to actually push this thing through to get a ban on super pacs or get a ban on money. But you're absolutely right, it's going to take a president. And the reason it's going to take a president is otherwise people campaign and then they don't pay attention to the detail. So every Democrat, I'll say, okay, we want to ban super PACs and let's say we get the, the majority, then are we actually going to be putting a bill to ban superbanks? Last time we did it was called HR1 when Biden was president, the House passed it and then the Senate couldn't get it passed because of the quote, unquote filibuster that was manchin cinema. A few other people who didn't want to pass it. But you need a president basically putting sunlight on all this calling out, calling out people by name were standing in the way of these bills getting passed.

[Akash Singh]

And then there's the same pressure that essentially the super PACs are applying. When you have a president that has that much, that much sunlight, as you said that, and then you see kind of Trump do it all the time. If somebody's going against him, he's basically blatant. He's like, yeah, we're gonna primary you guys. He's putting like the fear of God in these people. Right. But that's essentially what the super PACs are doing. Right. So if we don't like it when he does it, then we shouldn't like it when the super pacs are doing it. Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it's okay.

[Akash Singh]

And we also don't even know who like, runs the super pacs. I mean, there's like, veil of like, obscurity. Like, I have no clue who the, what would you call them? Like the managers of the super pacs. Who are these people that are in these like, unelected positions that have so much power in our democracy? Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

What are their interests?

[Ro Khanna]

I don't even know.

[Akash Singh]

They don't want you to know. They don't want you to know.

[Jon Favreau]

Exactly.

[Akash Singh]

It's like, it's like old school people. It's like, it's, you know, Elon is like, he comes from money, but now he has like, you know, real money. Right. And he wants everybody to know and he's flexing and he's, he wants to shape the world and he, his vision, old money. They don't want you to know who the they are. You know what I mean? Like, I, I don't even know if Rothschilds exists anymore. I just, you know, like I never met one. I was told Jay Electronica was dating one at one time. That could be totally fake.

[Mark Yagnon]

Anderson Cooper's at Vanderbilt. His last name is Cooper.

[Akash Singh]

Switch his name.

[Mark Yagnon]

You know what I mean? I don't get it.

[Akash Singh]

So, so I think that like, I, I think it's important that Americans understand the people with the controlling interest interests in these super PACs that have this unbelievable amount of power and sway in our democracy. I mean, that are really kind of like stripping the, Stripping our influence as voters.

[Ro Khanna]

They really are. And probably at more at the level of Congress and Senate than even the presidency, because the presidency, everyone kind of tunes in. And yeah, the money matters and the awful super PACs matter. And by the way, it happened on both sides. Let's not kid ourselves. I mean, KAMALA Eric ran $1.5 billion.

[Akash Singh]

Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah. This idea that the Kamala's campaign was all small donations is a complete bullshit. I mean, she spent. But no amount of money would get her elected. Like it could be a trillion dollar. Nothing, nothing would ever get her elected. There's not even the election.

[Ro Khanna]

If the election was again today with Trump's betrayal on some of this Epstein stuff and the war, don't think she would lose.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, she's that bad. No way. No, no, she, she's that bad. She's that bad. Because. And I'll tell you why, Cuz I've.

[Ro Khanna]

Thought a lot about this.

[Akash Singh]

Come on. If. And because I got recently like we got like a lot of shit over in the last couple days, right? Because we're on the pod and we're like all these things that Trump are doing are none of the things that he promised during the campaign. Like he said he was going to showcase what happened in the Epstein situation. He campaigned hard on it. Bongino and Cash Camping, his son campaigned hard on it. They really campaigned hard on it. Hard on this thing. Ending the foreign wars was a big part of what he was saying. That hasn't happened. It seems like we're still funding him. It seems like Israel does whatever the hell they want to do. We're still just turning Gaza into rubble. Kids are fucking dying. So it's like Ukraine seems like we're going to send more money over there, shrinking the budget, not expanding it by a few trillion dollars. So like all these issues that I think were important to us, right, that we wanted to see executed and he was making those promises and all of a sudden he seems to be flip flopping on those promises. So naturally we're going to Criticize him like, well, this isn't what we voted for. Right.

[Ro Khanna]

I thought that was great. You're calling balls and strikes.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah. Because you're smart.

[Ro Khanna]

You're talking about your dad, about the New York Times and how he had the scrunched up New York Times every day.

[Akash Singh]

But.

[Ro Khanna]

But.

[Akash Singh]

So I guess what I was saying. What I was saying to people is like, if I wanted to vote for somebody to not release the Epstein files to continue the foreign war and to expand the budget, I would have voted for Kamala. The reason I didn't do that is because I didn't want that. So my issue with Trump right now is he is doing what Kamala would have done.

[Ro Khanna]

But look, I think.

[Akash Singh]

I mean, you can't tell me that Kamala is going to release the. I think the only difference I didn't do.

[Mark Yagnon]

The only difference is green card holders aren't getting deported, which is a big deal, but immigration.

[Akash Singh]

I'm agreeing with you.

[Mark Yagnon]

Most of the big things that we had a problem with would be status quo. Whether Kamala won or Trump won. It would be the exact same tariffs. We don't actually know the economic impact yet. And then green card holders, which is an issue. But the big stuff that bothered us as a country is still going to be an issue of commluence.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah. I just think. Yeah. So it's like he's basically running as like an institutional old guard Democrat on these issues. He's not doing this.

[Ro Khanna]

There's a new wing of the Democratic Party that wants to get rid of the old guard. It's the Bernie wing. And we've said no dumb wars. And that's just not about Iran. I mean, Bernie and I led to stop the war in Yemen. We were vocally opposed to the war in Iraq in 2003. There's a wing of the party that says, get rid of these super PACs. We shouldn't have super PAC money. Not we should go kiss up to billionaires and celebrities and raise the most super PAC money. There's a wing of the party that is out there trying to get Medicare for all and health care for everyone and that wants to reduce the deficits. I mean, I came out with a plan to reduce $12 billion of deficits, but I think the only way the Democratic Party gets credibility is to call out the old guard and to say, we made a lot of mistakes and we need a new party.

[Akash Singh]

Hey, welcome. Welcome to the show. Mark decided to show up today. I feel so disrespectful. Sorry, Ro. My apologies. I'M on Indian Standard Time.

[Ro Khanna]

Please forgive me.

[Akash Singh]

Sorry about that.

[Ro Khanna]

You'd be an hour later if you're running.

[Akash Singh]

But yeah, not to distract, because I think that the point you're making is fantastic.

[Mark Yagnon]

What keeps those New Democrats. Sorry, what keeps them from making a real push? Because in our opinion, we're idiots. But it seems like it somehow gets muddled with identity politics and then that kind of takes over the discourse and then the New Democrats that can make real change, we aren't as captivated by. Is that what you think or is there something we're missing?

[Ro Khanna]

I think it's something much deeper. I mean, there is huge financial interest against the policies that some of us are pushing. I, I get booed when I vote against a trillion dollar defense budget. That's 56% of our defense budget. If you pull up one of the clips, you'll see on the Armed Services committee, it's like $67 one and everyone is like, Khan, you're going to vote for it. And then when I vote, no. Boo. So the point is, you're taking on the defense contractors when you're saying we don't want more wars in the Middle East. You're taking on the Pentagon when you're saying you don't want a trillion dollars of defense budget when you say, okay, I want Medicare for all. You're taking on the PBMs, you're taking on the health insurance companies, you're taking on the hospitals when you say, okay, I want to release the Epstein files and I don't care which way that's going to. Why are more Democrats not speaking out about it? Well, they're donors who probably want those files to be released. And so then, so what game do the donors play? They don't say, oh, Ro Khanna is is wrong. They just say, yeah, no, he's an unserious guy. He's going down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. That's not statesmanlike. You know, we're above it. We look the part of a politician and you know what people say? Yeah, you look the part of politicians have been helping out the rich and powerful and have corrupted government while people's lives are are getting.

[Akash Singh]

The thing about the conspiracy is there's no question that I'm sure the Internet has made the Epstein thing bigger than maybe what it actually is. But where it already is, is once convicted pedophile. We already know that that happened. Sweetheart deal from the government. And then Ghislaine is locked up for 20 years for procuring underage girls for Him, I think they said there's over 1,000 victims. So this is not conspiracy. Like that to me is enough to get a little look under the hood of who else was in his circle. Right? Like if, you know a guy was already convicted of being a pedophile. I don't know why Bill Gates is showing up to his house. I don't know why the former Israeli prime minister is showing up to his house. I don't know why Clinton's flying to play with them. Like, I imagine you vet the people you talk to. I mean, you obviously didn't vet us, but I imagine most people that you talk to, you vet them. So I think there is some curiosity, like why some of these incredibly powerful and wealthy people would just look past the fact that he was a convicted pedophile.

[Ro Khanna]

You just said three things that most politicians aren't going to say. They're not going to want to say, well, why did Bill Clinton show up? Or why did Bill Gates show up? Because they're going to think, well, who am I offending, who may not support me? And that's why our politics are in this, in this mess. And that's why you don't have more people on the Democratic side screaming right now to release these files. But my point is, if we just get our credibility back, if we stop listening to the big moneyed interest, the donor interest, if we're actually a party against war again for a party that stands for the working class and for the, the guy getting screwed, then maybe we start to win back the country. Because that's what Trump ran on, that we were getting into these dumb wars, people's jobs were going offshore, the government was taken over by too many corrupt interests. That he was going to clean it up because he hasn't delivered doesn't mean Democrats can just say, well, let's just go back to how things were. No, people were pissed off.

[Akash Singh]

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[Ro Khanna]

It's not only a fair assessment, it's a true assessment. There was no primary process in 2024, Bernie. In 2020, I mean, I was the co chair of his campaign after he won Nevada, all the prediction markets said 70%, he's going to be the nominee. Then what happened? Buttigieg drops out suddenly, two days later, even though he's doing well, endorses Biden. Klobuchar suddenly drops out, endorses Biden. Beto drops out, endorses Biden. Like, when does this happen? It's like you're in a track and field race. You got 10 people, one guy's a little bit ahead and then every other person on the field just endorses the guy ahead so that he doesn't, he wins or the guy coming second doesn't happen. It's like never in sports. You never allow this. And yet that's what happens and that's how they beat Bernie. So no, that was not a.

[Tommy Vietor]

Why do you think, think they did that?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, they were afraid of what Bernie was standing for. Bernie was talking about taking on big insurance companies, taking on the pharmacy benefit managers, taking on the defense contractors, taking on Wall street from buying up single family homes. He was actually going to fight to end super PACs. He wouldn't, he would have not just said, oh yeah, I'm for a livable wage. He would have called out senators saying, you know what, that senator is not for raising the wage and voting against it.

[Tommy Vietor]

What do you think motivated the other people that were running to just drop out and support and endorse Biden?

[Akash Singh]

They get promised a cabinet position, right. They get promised a piece of the pie. They're like, okay, you're not going to run this time, but you run next time. Don't let me put words in your mouth. What do you think?

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, look, they, they, they're, they're good people. But they, they, they, they say, look, you, you, you can run in the future. You can, we're going to make you committee chair. We're going to make you a in the cabinet where we're going to make sure this is good for your career. And then they appealed to, well, Bernie Sanders couldn't win. Do you really want Donald Trump to be president?

[Mark Yagnon]

And well, I think what Al is asking, and maybe you answered it already and he's not. We both, we had Pete on the pod. We really loved him. We thought he was awesome. You named him as one of the guys who dropped out. Do you feel like he's a little bit compromised having dropped out or. No, I think that's what he's trying to get at.

[Ro Khanna]

Look, I don't think he should have dropped out and endorsed Biden. I don't I don't think that that was a fair process. I think you should have just allowed the process to play out. And in my view, there were a lot of people who voted for Bernie who were upset about it. But then it's not just that you've seen this bombing in Gaza going on with Netanyahu. I voted against giving the extra funding to Netanyahu. It's one of the reasons that some of the interest groups have targeted me, because I don't think. Yes, I think that October 7th was horrific and Israel had a right to, to defend themselves. But after three months, they had destroyed most of the Hamas battalions. It's been two years later. Yeah.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah. Now that was really brilliant. What you did is evading the Pete answer and then taking us to something that we cannot argue. That was good. That was slick. Indian.

[Akash Singh]

Indian.

[Mark Yagnon]

Respect myself. Very good.

[Ro Khanna]

But I, I, I. Did I not answer Pete? I think.

[Akash Singh]

Yes or no.

[Ro Khanna]

No.

[Mark Yagnon]

I'm going to be honest.

[Ro Khanna]

What I was saying, though, is that more people in the Biden administration, others should have called out what was going on in Gaza. And I figured with Pete was not. Yeah. That he dropped out. I disagreed with it. But I was getting back to Pete. Is that he and others should have been calling out this unconditional money going to Netanyahu.

[Mark Yagnon]

Absolutely.

[Akash Singh]

I just find it, I just kind of funny that, like, the last few days, we've been lectured by, you know, a of lot, lot of, you know, staunch liberals who pretended that the person they voted for wasn't dead for four years. Like, they pretended Biden wasn't senile for four years. And we're getting lectured for criticizing the person that I voted for.

[Mark Yagnon]

Like, I think, I think they're pretending they had a really viable, awesome candidate that we all should have voted for and not.

[Ro Khanna]

I mean, I, I don't get it. Because they think you, you.

[Mark Yagnon]

We platformed him. We talked.

[Ro Khanna]

Not even that.

[Akash Singh]

It's just, they're like, you should have, like, you should have known better. You should. This guy's a career con man. He's just always lies. You should have known.

[Ro Khanna]

And it's like, no, Don, that's why the Democrats lost. It's, It'd be like, look, I, it'd be like, I represent Silicon Valley. It's like, let's say there's the latest version of the iPhone, and people are like, you know what? This iPhone really isn't good. We're going to go buy some other phone. And a bunch of people at Apple sitting around saying, you know what they're really stupid. They should really like the iPhone. Guys, we got to tell them why they should like the iPhone as opposed to saying, you know what, this iPhone really sucked. Maybe we got to look at our in the mirror and change our party. It's not. The Democratic Party is not entitled, Andrew, to your orkash or anyone's vote. It's not like, okay, just because your dad read the New York Times, you better vote for the Democrats for the rest of your life. Right? Yeah. Earn your vote. The reality is we didn't earn your vote last time we were in these overseas wars, we were taking big PAC money. We weren't talking about people's anger at the system within with inflation. We didn't have a clear economic vision. People didn't feel us. And so, okay, they voted and Gaza was going on and we didn't even allow a Palestinian American to speak.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Ro Khanna]

And so, you know, we can keep having more. We're the same. We keep putting up these status quo folks and we can keep losing or we can realize that people are angry in this country at both parties and we gotta take on the establishment.

[Tommy Vietor]

I haven't figured out if this is a good thing or bad and I want to get your opinion on it. So I feel like Republicans, even if they disagree, they all fall in line. If Trump says, hey, I want to do this, they fall in line with Dems.

[Akash Singh]

There's fractured.

[Tommy Vietor]

You say old guard, new guard, and you guys disagree quite a bit.

[Akash Singh]

Do you think that's a good thing.

[Tommy Vietor]

For the party or a bad thing?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, it's a good thing. I think the Republicans disagreed a lot in 2016. They had this guy, Donald Trump, who basically went on the stage, Jeb Bush was supposed to be president, and he said, jeb, you can't even call the Iraq war a mistake. And he transformed that party. He insulted Mitch McConnell, he insulted Jeb Bush. He said, all these people don't know what they're talking about. They got us into these wars. They're talking about cutting social media security. No one liked him in the party, but he stuck to his guns. I think the Democrats sometimes were too polite. We're not willing to call out our leadership. I got in so much trouble because I said Chuck Schumer was making a mistake by not allowing a war powers resolution vote on the Iran deal. How can you criticize the Senate majority leader of your own party? I think what people want is for folks to just call balls and strikes. To be blunt.

[Mark Yagnon]

We love that.

[Akash Singh]

I'm tired of the cold cult of politics. Like, I'm not some Democrat cult member, Republican cult member. Like, we're supposed to be free Americans that can make up decisions on our own, call balls and strikes, as you say, and then hold the people in power accountable. When people fail us and fail us on the promises they make, we should criticize them. Like, what is the alternative? We just vote and then agree with every single thing that person does? I love Obama. I voted for Obama. I didn't vote for fucking drone strikes of a wedding.

[Ro Khanna]

You know what I mean?

[Akash Singh]

Like, maybe you wait to the honeymoon or something like targeted, you know, like.

[Mark Yagnon]

Wait till they've been married five years.

[Akash Singh]

Do them a favor, wait for the anniversary for February 13th, you know, so it's like, you should hold the elected officials accountable. And we live in this, like, weird time where any measure to hold them accountable comes with immediate criticism. Your experience of politics, politician, I guess we experience it as, you know, for whatever people thrown in this political mess. But there has to be a version, I think, also where as Democrats, like, this is a democracy, you want votes. You don't have enough. You lost last time, right? You want to win this time. If you see people that seem to have swayed over to Trump, that are now disillusioned with Trump, you have the opportunity to build a coalition of, with those people. And you don't build a coalition by just going, hey, fucking idiot. Why, why would you. Stupid fucking. That's not how you build.

[Ro Khanna]

Totally agree with you. I think we've got to listen to people. And I agree with you on this point. Like, we can't cancel people. We need to have free, free exchange. We got to respect people. But it's got to be much more than that. You know, the Democratic lesson is like, okay, let's, let's not make people put pronouns on their, on their emails. Fine. But it's much deeper, deeper than that. The problem in the country is you've got a Democratic Party that was too beholden to the interest groups, to the defense contractors, to the ideology of overseas wars, to not pushing for real reform. And if we run as a status quo party and like, you know what? America is already great. Yeah, of course we're great. But you know what? Half this country, half this country has a declining standard of living. They don't think their kids are going to do well.

[Akash Singh]

You're making a great point. And I think that the identity of the Democrats, Democratic voter and the Democratic Party are quite separate. And I think the Democratic Party is a little bit split. Obviously, you have the Bernie side Which it seems that you're a part of. And then you have like the old guard side as well. But the. I think the Democratic voter doesn't believe that his party is tied to these billion dollar corporation and special interest groups. I think that they believe in their heart. Like I believe my entire life as a Democrat, I was like, I'm here for progress and making sure people's lives are easier and better and I want to help as many people. People as possible. And once I think Democrats start realizing it, that's actually not the priority of the party. That there are military contracts that need to get paid, that there are pharmaceutical companies that need to get paid, their insurance companies that need to get paid. And those places are going to strip your ability to implement that progress that you want so bad. The second they start realizing that, I think they probably lean more towards a Bernie or more towards you or guys that actually have that at their heart or their identity. But there is a major chasm. Like they think that, like the Republicans are bought, but not the Democrats. And it's like they're bought too.

[Ro Khanna]

There's a major chasm. And there are people who want to silence that chasm. Oh, you got to Ro. How can you be talking about the divisions in your own party when we got Donald Trump? Just focus on Donald Trump. And what I'm saying is people are tired about the focus on Donald Trump. Do you think there's a single thing I can say to anyone, any American about Donald Trump that's going to change their mind about what they. About Donald Trump?

[Mark Yagnon]

That's a great.

[Ro Khanna]

The guy's been on the. Like, there's not a single thing I.

[Akash Singh]

Can say to my whole family about Donald Trump. We had this exact thing. It's like there was a. You know, when we had Trump on people, like, why didn't you ask him about Epstein? I was like, so he could give the same answer that he's given 100 times about being with Epstein. Like, do you think that if we asked him about Epstein that he'd be like, yeah, I used to fight kids with him. You think he's just gonna open up because he's hanging out? It's gonna be the same answer every single time. Right? So, yeah, yeah.

[Ro Khanna]

Look, obviously I oppose very strongly what Akash is saying where he's deporting people that do process. We stand up to that. But you know what we also have to do as a party is say, you know, we. We hear, why did the guy get elected twice? It's because people are totally Livid at the government.

[Mark Yagnon]

Real quick.

[Akash Singh]

Sorry. Sorry to interrupt. And a very important thing, I think, for both parties to understand, and I think you're seeing this happen a lot with, like, the Democrats is your compass is not very wide for the things you're used to. Right. Like, I don't need to try pizza in that many different places. I know pizza. I'm from New York. Right. But a wild food in Singapore, I'm absolutely going to be open to and I'm going to try. And I think what happens with, like, Institutional Republicans are Democrats. We're very, we're very rigid in what we'll accept for them because we don't expect much. The outsider that's presenting these ideas that are wild will indulge in because we need some form of change. And I think that's like why Imam Donnie is so popular right now in New York. It's like, I know the Institutional Democrats, the Cuomos are not going to do anything different and my life isn't going to change at all. So I have a lot of, I have rigidity with them, but with this complete outsider, maybe they're. There's hope, maybe there's an opportunity that things can change. I think that's probably what a lot of us thought with the Epstein files of Trump. We're like, yeah, maybe we'll get to see. We'll get some justice for a thousand underage girls who've been victimized. That'd be really fucking nice because they're campaigning on it. And then when he goes, we're not going to see it yet. We have every right to be frustrated by that.

[Mark Yagnon]

I think people would be shocked at how similar the thought process that leads someone to vote for Donald Trump is to the thought process that leads someone to vote for Zoran Mamdani. The thought process process is almost identical, I would bet. And one thing that frustrates me as someone who probably leans liberal but would love to lean more, is there's one party that you would think really preaches empathy and understanding people, and it's the Democrats. But when it comes to voting for Trump, there is no, not even an attempt to understand what makes over 50 or over half the country, whatever the exact percent is, vote for that guy there. They're not all idiots and disenablers and whatever other awful adjective you want to throw at it.

[Akash Singh]

Just some of us. Some are.

[Mark Yagnon]

No, some are.

[Akash Singh]

For sure.

[Mark Yagnon]

There's a percentage that are. Look, I'm not saying if you vote for Trump, you're racist, but if you're racist. You're probably not voting for the Democrats.

[Akash Singh]

There's plenty of racists. There's plenty of anti Semitism. Exactly.

[Mark Yagnon]

There's an understanding of, okay, something made a lot of other people vote for. What was it? They're not all bad people. You can't just do that and feel better about yourself and expect to improve your party or more importantly, the country. And I think that's getting, A lot.

[Ro Khanna]

Of them are great Americans. I mean, they voted for him partly because their jobs were shipped offshore. Look, they see a district like mine, $14 trillion in Silicon Valley, thousand percent Johnstown, Ohio, or Lorraine, Ohio. They said, look, there are no factories or kids are not going to have a good, good shot. And then these politicians are sending billions of our dollars and getting into these overseas wars. And this guy is saying, I'm going to stop these wars. This guy's going to say, saying, I'm going to bring back many manufacturing. This guy understands that I haven't had a fair shot in, in life. And you know, Rose, family, they just got here. You know. Yeah, my parents are middle class, but metaphorically, a lot of the immigrant communities, they're doing really well. What about you? You built, you built the steel, you built this country, you fought in the world wars. If we don't understand that sentiment and understand that there's a righteous anger that a lot of Trump voters had, we're never going to start to win them back. But the point is not just, okay, now let's go talk to, to them and say you're not, you know, we want to listen. The point is, what are we going to do? How are we going to actually change things? And what, I think that, what the test of leadership on both parties is to channel the anger, but then to put something forward that is actually going to solve people's problems, that is actually going to be solution oriented. I call it economic patriotism, that we should be having a thousand trade schools, we should have investments in new factories across this country, a Marshall Plan for America. We should stop putting trillions of dollars overseas wars and start investing in this country. But whatever it is, I think if you don't, if you start out with we were great and Trump voters are just wrong, we're going to keep losing.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah, I like that idea of investment in America and I think that that's very, I think it's very enticing to a lot of voters that just really feel partyless right now, you know, and they're, they're struggling. And I think when you're struggling. I think when your life is, is pretty good, just calling someone else a bad guy works because you fear like your life could get worse. When you already feel like your life is worse, you're just going towards hope. Whatever has more hope works. If you go, that guy's a bad guy, he's going to make your life worse. You're like, I already can't afford to eat and I already can't afford rent. How much worse can this get? That guy's telling me he's going to make 200,000 new, what's it called, Rent freeze units and New York City. I like that guy. That sounds really good. Who knows if he can do it, but maybe there's a chance. And I think that's why a lot of the Democratic socialists are like really resonating. I see that popping up all over the country. It's not just in New York City. I can see that becoming incredibly popular and especially in the way that it's kind of like rebuke, rebuking the traditional old guard Democrats, which I think a lot of us don't really, I feel like we kind of just don't really trust, trust them right now.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, and I totally, totally agree. And you know, look, the first thing is just to say that the system isn't working because if you're one of those folks who can't afford rent, who can't afford to buy a house, right? That was the American dream. You don't know if you're going to get a good job and then you're like, well, let's just keep throwing people out because why should I vote for the same thing that obviously work. The American people have been doing this since, I'd say 2004. Nine out of the ten last election cycles. They've just thrown the other, the other side out because their life isn't improving. And I think there's an opportunity not just to, okay, mimic Donald Trump or to mimic Mamdani. You can have your own ideas, you can have fresh ideas, but you got to start by saying the system is bad, people are getting screwed. Here's what we're going to do differently and then let's have a lot of new debate and new voices about where we need to go.

[Tommy Vietor]

You had a tweet that went viral. I don't want to misrepresent you, but you polled people about were Dems more upset about or attacking Mandani or attacking Trump's beautiful, big, beautiful bill? And more people voted that Dems attacked.

[Akash Singh]

Mandani more I hope I'm not butchering.

[Tommy Vietor]

What was your motivation for the tweet and why do you think we got those results?

[Ro Khanna]

Because one week after Mandani won, all you were hearing in the media is, oh, is this the end of the Democratic Party? Is this some existential crisis with the Democratic Party? Because Mamdani has not condemned, unequivocally globalized the intifada. Well, look, I condemn globalized the intifada, but the point is that really, that's what you got out of the Madani election, not that the guy was out there talking about why the price of.

[Akash Singh]

Halal went from eight to ten bucks.

[Mark Yagnon]

He would talk about that.

[Ro Khanna]

That's what you took out of the that campaign. And then instead of talking about the stuff that Trump was going to do to take away health care and child care from working class families, you're attacking Mandani as the problem of the Democratic Party. And people, the headlines were Democratic Party is existential crisis. The 33 year old kid getting elected because he did social media videos talking about why people's lives suck is an existential crisis for the party. I mean, come on. And that's, I think, the frustration immigration people, people felt. And then, you know, then you get the. Then I got attacked by some of the people in the establishment. Well, that's not true. So. Oh, and so Senator spent five, you know, five hours on the House floor and they would spend more time talking about the Trump bill. That wasn't the point. The point is, you know, what did it feel like to folks? And what it feels like to folks is that anytime you have a new voice, anytime you have someone questioning the status quo, the whole party gets uneasy and they come down at him. I mean, the guy's been to be mayor and you still got these billionaires out there plotting about, like, how you keep back or how do you get Adams back? It just makes no, no sense.

[Akash Singh]

Yeah. Why is Cuomo not stepping down? Like, who the fuck wants Cuomo to be mayor?

[Ro Khanna]

I have no idea. I mean, it's like they don't know when it's time. I mean, it's. He's not going to win. Adams is not going to win. Mandani is going to win. He still does not have the endorsement of every New York Democratic leader, even though he won the prim. And this is the problem. Like, sometimes I think we think voters are, are dumber than they actually are. Voters in America are actually pretty smart. That that should be the first, the first thing Democratic the party should realize going back To Cash's point is, if you believe voters were smart, which I do, and they elected Donald Trump twice, then maybe think like, what are you doing wrong? So voters are smart that you can endorse Madani and still not agree with him on every position. Just because you endorse doesn't mean that you agree with Mamdani on every single position. And yet we're so afraid in this country. That's the problem with the Democratic Party in one sentence, one word. It's a lack of courage. It's like they're so, they're calculating.

[Akash Singh]

So how do we. Yeah, they're pussy. So how can we instill more courage in them? Because it feels like the courageous Democrats are having a lot of success right now. You might not agree with their policies. I'm not saying you. But like the people listening and watching right now. But they are resonating and they're making waves.

[Mark Yagnon]

Yeah.

[Akash Singh]

So like, how do you, how are other Democrats not seeing that and then echoing those sentiments? And furthermore, why don't you echo him? Why don't you echo them courageously without the pejoratives? Like, it seems like the worst thing they say about Mondani. They're like, he's a communist, he's an anti Semit, he's a socialist. It's like, well, can you refute some of his ideas? Like if, if you have a reason why his new building residential development program is bad for, for the city, attack that, Defend him, defend his idea. Because as someone who lives in New York, I'd like to know why is rent freezing bad? And there are arguments for why it is and why it eventually hurts, you know, the people of that city in the long run. But like, let's attack, let's attack the arguments that these people are making instead of just throwing these pejoratives around. Because then we still are. I, in my opinion, I think that we're untrusting once we're just trying to cast people as, as far certain things. I start to lose a little bit of faith.

[Ro Khanna]

Totally agree. And put your own policies out of how you're going to build millions of new homes and how they're going to be either public homes or private homes. Put out your ideas of what you're going to do instead of just labeling someone based on. As a communist, which is just not true. But you ask why is there a lack of courage? And I think it's pretty simple. You got to be willing to, to lose, to be willing to do something that's meaningful. And you look at one of the reasons TRUMP ADVANCE 1. Look at how many years collectively they've been in elective office. Trump, like, five. And Vance has been like, five years. Now, you look at the amount of years that Biden and Harris were collectively in elective office, and the reality is, the longer you stay in, people think, okay, I got to just say everything to keep my position. Madani didn't think he was going to win that campaign starting. He just was like, okay, I'm going to have fun with it. I'm going to say what I want. You know, and if you, if you have that view, like, okay, I'm just going to say that we should release the Epstein files. I'm going to. Who cares? I'm going to partner with Thomas Massie and I'm going to say, no war in Iran. Maybe I'll be right. Maybe I'll be wrong. People will be upset at me. You know, maybe. Maybe this is not the best way to get into the Cabinet. But you know what? Maybe it resonates and maybe that it does lead to change. And I just think that's what the Democratic Party needs more of. Courage, will, willingness, actually a willingness to lose. These are a willingness to risk your. Your positions of power.

[Akash Singh]

That's. That's a great way of putting it. It's. There are too many people that it is their goal to be a career politician.

[Mark Yagnon]

And it.

[Akash Singh]

If it is your goal to be a career politician, then you will lose your courage. You can't really go up against the party. You can't really create noise. You can't be rebellious, rebellious at all. And the people realize that, and we see the inauthenticity in you. And then when you see someone who's willing to buck the system, even if the ideas don't make sense on paper, it is refreshing because it looks like they're not beholden to a system that has let us down.

[Mark Yagnon]

I trust your intentions, too.

[Akash Singh]

But they do get skewered, though, because all of the most courageous Democratic politicians we can think of do sit on the periphery of the establishment. Yes. You know what I mean? Like the AOCs or Bernie or Roe himself.

[Mark Yagnon]

Like, they kind of are at odds.

[Akash Singh]

With the establishment and they get crucified for it. Yeah.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah. You know, like, people sometimes on Twitter will say, oh, bro, you should. You should be Speaker. I can never be speaker of the House. They wouldn't vote me for Speaker. That's. I've offended too many people. I've broken too many glasses to be speaker of the House. So you have to be comfortable with saying, okay, I'm going to take certain stances and I'm going to let the chips fall where they may, but this is what I believe. And maybe there's a movement and it gives you, makes you president, makes you cabinet, maybe you never get further, but you can go back and say, I tried to make an impact. And the best leaders, in my view, don't just have the courage, then they actually have solutions that resonate. So the problem I have with Trump is like he had the rebellion. He diagnosed every problem like, yeah, jobs are going offshore, too many wars. I just don't think he thought deeply about the solutions. Like, how are we actually going to get mandated manufacturing back? How are we actually going to take on the defense establishment? And I, I think our party shouldn't just be rebellion without purpose. It should be rebellion with a new vision, a fresh vision. And let's have 10, 15 people with that vision, not just annoy. The worst thing the Democratic Party could do is to anoint people for leadership in 20, 26 or 28, like fight, have more within the party.

[Tommy Vietor]

Speaking of which, how do you feel about Gavin Newsom and the job he's.

[Akash Singh]

Doing out in California rally?

[Ro Khanna]

You just want me to talk, comment on every, every Democrat, huh?

[Akash Singh]

Pete Buddha, you said you call balls and strikes.

[Ro Khanna]

You know. Yeah, I'm gonna, my phone's gonna blow up after this. They're like, you, you were supposed to talk about the Epstein files. My team will be like, what the hell are you doing? You know, I'm gonna, this is the last time I'm gonna be allowed to do one of these things. I'm just joking around.

[Akash Singh]

Look here.

[Ro Khanna]

My, my disappointment, the biggest disappointment I had had with Gavin, I mean just. And I told him this was he ran on single payer in and getting single payer health care in California in 2018. He said, we're going to do big things. And then he hasn't supported the single payer bill. And then when he had the recall election, there were a lot of insurance companies that funded the anti recall effort. And so, yeah, I mean that was my biggest disappointment. We get the places, I agree with them, but that was the place where I have the biggest, biggest criticism. Criticism of him.

[Akash Singh]

We might have to, we might have to sit down with Gavin and see what's going on. Because I think that the idea from like a New Yorker, obviously we're not as like entrenched in California politics, right? But I think the idea from like the outsider is you see him in interviews and he's like. He's a really good politician, if you will. You know, he seems authentic. He seems earnest. But then the state is on fire. So it's just like, mainly the southern part. Yes. So it's like we just need to see if, like, what he says in interviews actually ends up being executed. And at the end of the day, if you cannot execute your vision, you cannot do the job well. And I understand there's limiting factors to this, but that's where the art of being a politician comes into play. It's not just convincing the people. It's convincing those other politicians to get on board with your plans. But look, bro, we appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for your time. We hope to talk to you more. More about this. Stay Alive.

[Mark Yagnon]

Make your 2028 announcement here.

[Akash Singh]

Stay alive. Okay.

[Mark Yagnon]

Come back when it's time.

[Ro Khanna]

Totally love my life. Just to put it on record. So.

[Akash Singh]

Okay, I'm sure. I'm sure if you, for whatever reason, are, you know, taken out, Peter Teal's probably got your consciousness somewhere and he can inject it into another Indian kid and we'll get another one of you soon.

[Mark Yagnon]

Reincarnation.

[Akash Singh]

Yes, exactly. Anyway, thank you so much.

[Ro Khanna]

This is. Knowing Rogan, Josh, that. That. That takes my level of respect way higher.

[Akash Singh]

I'm gonna take you out to some spots, man. Don't. Don't. Anywhere. Next time in New York, we're gonna take you some spots. All right, buddy. Take care.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.