Apologetics Profile – Episode 294

Sandra Tanner Discusses Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon – Part One
Release Date: June 23, 2025

Episode Overview

Hosts James Walker and Daniel Ray welcome Sandra Tanner, renowned former Latter-Day Saint and great-great-granddaughter of LDS President Brigham Young, for an in-depth discussion about Joseph Smith and the origins, translation, and controversies of the Book of Mormon. Drawing from decades of research, Tanner addresses historical, doctrinal, and linguistic issues, the context of Joseph Smith’s life, and how LDS authorities and scholars have grappled with these challenges.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Historical and Linguistic Problems of the Book of Mormon

• The Book of Mormon’s use of the word "church" in 600 BC predates Christ’s use (00:37).
• “Ekklesia” (church) appears in 1 Nephi 14, but there is no historical evidence for the existence of “Reformed Egyptian,” the language Smith claimed to translate from.
• The Nephites’ supposed context—a lost tribe of Israel in B.C. America writing in a nonexistent language—raises significant historical and linguistic doubts.

Quote:
Host: “Oddly, the final copy of the Book of Mormon sounds much in every way like it came directly from the pages of the King James Bible.” (02:24)

2. Joseph Smith’s Background and Storytelling Talent

• Sandra Tanner affirms Smith’s remarkable storytelling ability as a youth, fascination with local debates about Native American origins, and his exposure to revivalist Christianity, religious contention at home, and contemporary theological speculation (13:50–19:00).
• Smith absorbed the ideas around him like a “mental sponge,” which Tanner likens to a game show contestant recalling information from a vast range of topics.

Sandra Tanner:
"In Joseph’s teenage years...he’s like a mental sponge. Things he hears that he’s interested in, he retains...I think Joseph Smith had a talent like that." (14:40)

3. Treasure Seeking, Occult Practices, and the Seer Stone

• Joseph Smith was deeply involved in “money digging,” using a “seer stone” as a proto-crystal ball to hunt for hidden treasures, involving rituals and magical incantations (19:05–23:07).
• Smith’s arrest for “glass looking” (a type of fraud) in 1826 is well documented.
• The same seer stone later became his tool for translating the Book of Mormon, rather than the “Urim and Thummim” spectacles originally claimed by LDS tradition (23:24).

Sandra Tanner:
“So he gives up doing money digging, but he switches to a new claim at this point… instead of using a stone to find buried treasure, he now claims this stone will help him translate this record that an angel has told him about…” (22:16)

4. Translation Process: Seer Stone in the Hat

• The LDS Church now concedes Smith used a stone in a hat to translate—previously hidden from church members (25:13).
• Recent LDS leaders and educators, such as Brad Wilcox and President Russell M. Nelson, compare the seer stone to modern cell phone screens (27:05–29:39).

Brad Wilcox (BYU):
"When I compare for my students the seer stone to a cell phone...a smooth surface on which words appear that can be read, then it makes more sense to them." (27:40)

President Russell M. Nelson:
“To me, it’s like having my mobile phone in my hand and I can get messages on it that you can’t see.” (29:23)

• The literal “word for word” claim creates problems: the original Book of Mormon has had nearly 4,000 changes since 1830, raising questions about the nature of divine inspiration (30:18).

5. Sources and Influences on Joseph Smith

• Parallels exist between Adam Clarke’s Methodist Bible commentary and Smith’s “translation” edits; scholars increasingly see Smith as borrowing from contemporary sources (32:19).
• The content of the Book of Mormon reflects the debates and issues of Joseph Smith’s time, as Alexander Campbell observed in 1832.

Host quoting Campbell:
"…every error and almost every truth discussed in north New York for the last 10 years…all the great controversies...find their way into the Book of Mormon." (08:10)

6. Evolution of Joseph Smith’s Theology

• Smith’s theology shifted over time, from monotheistic ideas in his early 1830s editing of the Bible, to radical new doctrines (polygamy, godhood, temple work) as his movement grew (37:24–38:58).
• Sandra Tanner suggests that the expansion of Smith’s following encouraged theological innovation to maintain authority and distinction.

Sandra Tanner:
“Once he is established as God’s prophet…he gets bigger and bigger ideas of what this could be…if you have any competitors, you have to outdo them in new revelation to prove you’re the prophet…” (39:03)

7. Baptism for the Dead – A Doctrinal Innovation

• The first mention of baptism for the dead appears in an 1840 funeral sermon by Smith, not in the Book of Mormon. Tanner links its emergence to Smith’s personal need to resolve the fate of his unbaptized brother, Alvin, and to his growing inventiveness as a prophet (40:42–42:57).

Sandra Tanner:
“So finally he comes up with baptism for the dead. Oh, well, we could take care of it now. Everyone will be happy…” (42:40)

8. Historical Anachronisms and Problems with Book of Mormon Text

• The Book of Mormon features anachronistically Christian and church concepts in “BC” America, adopting New Testament phraseology and theology centuries before Jesus.
• Examples include references to Christian churches in 76 BC and direct quotations from the King James Bible (44:12–49:14).

Sandra Tanner:
“In the Book of Mormon, right at the start, you get prophecies of Mary, who would be the mother of God...Gerald [Tanner] was more and more struck with the problem of New Testament theology in the Old Testament portion of the Book of Mormon.” (46:17)

• Tanner explains there’s no plausible way for reformed Egyptian, modern English, and King James theology to coincide.

Sandra Tanner:
“If everything’s in reformed Egyptian, you could not possibly translate that into English and have it exactly mirror King James language and phrasing.” (49:32)

Memorable Moments and Notable Quotes

• On Smith’s oral storytelling:
  Sandra Tanner: “He absorbed things he heard, what he observed around him…he’s like a mental sponge.” (14:40)
• On the seer stone and translation:
  Brad Wilcox: “I compare for my students the seer stone to a cell phone…” (27:40)
  President Nelson: “It’s like having my mobile phone in my hand and I can get messages on it that you can’t see.” (29:23)
• On doctrinal innovation and the prophet’s authority:
  Sandra Tanner: “Once he is established as God’s prophet, seer, revelator and translator, I think he gets thinking of bigger things.” (38:58)
• On the BC appearance of Christian concepts in the Book of Mormon:
  Sandra Tanner: “There’s nothing else that shows there was ever this kind of understanding in a civilization of all about Christ and the church, the atonement.” (46:16)
• On the impossibility of linguistic translation claims:
  Sandra Tanner: “It just doesn’t work that way.” (49:49)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Book of Mormon language problems – 00:37–04:00
• Alexander Campbell’s critique – 08:10–10:30
• Sandra Tanner on Joseph Smith’s youth and influences – 13:50–19:00
• Magic, money digging, seer stone origins – 19:05–23:24
• Discussion of seer stone translation process – 23:25–26:37
• LDS officials' “cell phone” analogy clips – 27:05–29:39
• Textual changes and fallibility in the Book of Mormon – 30:18–31:13
• Adam Clarke Commentary influence – 32:19–34:05
• Joseph Smith translation of the Bible and theological development – 36:05–38:58
• Baptism for the dead—narrative and rationale – 40:42–42:57
• Old Testament/King James anachronisms – 44:12–49:32

Conclusion

Sandra Tanner’s first-hand insights, combined with careful historical analysis and engagement with both Mormon and non-Mormon sources, offer a thorough, thought-provoking critique of Joseph Smith, the origins of the Book of Mormon, and the evolving theology of the LDS Church. The episode raises key historical, linguistic, and theological problems—especially for a text that claims literal divine translation—while providing a respectful yet challenging perspective for listeners from all backgrounds.