561. Overcoming Addiction w/Tony Mandarich

Summary

---

Apologia Radio - Episode 561: "Overcoming Addiction with Tony Mandarich"

Date: February 27, 2026
Host: Luke the Bear (filling in for Jeff Durbin)
Guest: Tony Mandarich, former NFL offensive lineman

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Apologia Radio features a candid, in-depth conversation with Tony Mandarich—a once-celebrated NFL offensive lineman, infamous for his rise, fall, struggle with addiction, and eventual redemption. Luke the Bear, an avid football fan, takes the reins as host to unpack Tony’s journey through professional football, steroid controversy, addiction, recovery, and faith. The discussion is not only a story of sports and scandal but a powerful testimony of grace, personal responsibility, and the transformative power of the gospel.

---

Key Topics & Insights

1. Tony's Football Beginnings

• Early Ambitions: By age 11 in Canada, Tony declared he would play in the NFL—"I can't believe I made it at that age because it's so young." (10:47)
• Family Support: His older brother helped him create a step-by-step plan toward his goal: excel at high school, get a scholarship, play in college, get drafted.

2. Michigan State and NFL Stardom

• College Choice: Tony attended Michigan State, coached by Nick Saban, opting for the chance to play early and shunning University of Michigan for a comically smug recruiter ("...the moon has a flag of University of Michigan on it? And I was like, I really don't care." 12:20).
• Stellar Play: Achieved All-American and multiple awards, culminating in a Rose Bowl victory (16:09).
• Steroid Use: Begins in high school to break through weightlifting plateaus, continues in college despite knowing the rules—a decision he later regrets but sees as formative (14:06).

3. NFL Draft & Green Bay Packers

• Drafted 2nd Overall (1989): In a historically loaded draft class with names like Troy Aikman and Barry Sanders. Pressure and expectations "from everywhere" (10:47–19:59).
• Steroid Cessation: Stopped before entering the league due to advanced testing ("I got off of them 16 weeks before the combine." 17:12).
• Contract Holdout: Missed training camp to become the highest-paid lineman—creating tension among teammates ("...a lot of linemen resented that." 19:39).
• On-field Struggles: Never started a game his rookie year. By his own admission, arrogance and late entry put him behind (21:26).

4. The Descent: Addiction and Denial

• Post-Steroid Coping: Swapped steroids for painkillers and alcohol—addiction rooted in "getting out of reality" amid pressure (24:41).
• Performance and Decline: Notes the real decline was more due to opiate abuse ("...the painkillers and/or alcohol, big time, not getting off the steroids." 29:05).
• Hiding Pain: Shocked in retrospect that no one intervened: "I just look at me and how sick I looked...that somebody didn’t just pull me aside and say...I think we need to go to treatment or a hospital or something." (24:36)

Notable Quote:

"I was addicted to painkillers. I thought I kept it hidden pretty well. There were some people that suspected things. But when I look back at some of the interviews…I just look at me and how sick I looked…"
—Tony Mandarich ([24:36])

5. Rock Bottom & Turning Point

• Failed Comebacks: Workouts with Miami, San Diego, Cleveland fall flat (5.4-second 40-yard dash signals his physical nadir). Belichick interview "the driest four hours of my life." (33:32)
• Personal Loss: Brother’s death and two and a half years of deepening addiction in Michigan.
• Wake-Up Call: Friend’s intervention and realization he lost track of time in addiction’s fog: "It was like the mirror was a little bit less foggy...I could see what I became." (38:00)

Notable Quote:

"I knew that night I was like, no, I’m definitely gonna go ... the next morning, we said yes."
—Tony Mandarich ([39:48])

6. Recovery and Return to Football

• Treatment: 17-day in-patient (couldn’t afford longer), followed by six months intensive outpatient and daily 12-step meetings.
• Miraculous Physical Recovery: Regained much strength and muscle within six months, eventually leading to a successful NFL comeback with the Indianapolis Colts (42:51–44:52).
• Second NFL Stint: Blocks for Harbaugh and Marshall Faulk, finishes before Peyton Manning arrives (45:15–45:19).

7. Retirement & Long-Term Recovery

• Shoulder Injury: Ended his career—chose not to risk addiction with prescribed painkillers again, even at the cost of a seven-figure contract (46:07).
• Physical Maintenance: No shoulder replacement to this day, credits continued strength training for functional recovery (48:16).

---

Grace, Gospel & Transformation

8. Moving Beyond AA: The Gospel-Centered Turn

• Faith Background: Always a believer ("Born and raised Catholic"), but in 2020, deepened faith by returning to the Gospels—"I always knew was the Gospels, that is the absolute truth." (51:12)
• Guided by Apologia: Partnered with Luke for discipleship, digging deep into scripture; the transition from 12-step "God as you understand Him" to Christ as revealed in the Bible.
• True Transformation: Considers his gospel awakening in 2020–21 even more life-changing than sobriety:

  "My whole life changed in 95, like for the better. Yeah, this in ... end of 2020, beginning of 2021, was even more impactful … I started to see the world in a different set of lenses."
  —Tony Mandarich ([53:12])

Notable Moment:

Luke to Tony: "Our stance has always been that addiction is ultimately, yes, there’s a chemical dependency, but ultimately it’s a worship problem...you need Christ." ([56:15])

• Baptism: Baptized at Apologia—"all the water came out" (joking about his size) ([55:29])
• Discipling Others: Now returns to 12-step meetings as a witness to point others to the true God:

  "I go with the motivation of discipling somebody who’s struggling with a higher power...to let them know."
  —Tony Mandarich ([57:44])

9. Identity and Overcoming Addiction

• Rejecting AA Labels: Formerly always had to introduce himself by his addiction; now defines himself by Christ—"I’m not a football player anymore. I’m almost a 60 year old guy that is grateful to be alive. I’m just a guy." ([63:13])

• AA’s Limitation:

  "…the God of your understanding part was kind of like something that…I was always a believer. Right. And so...I’m gonna say probably the better five years of my sobriety of the 30 years...is a direct result of getting my nose into the Gospels."
  —Tony Mandarich ([54:13])

• Encouragement to Others:

  "I did it and I'm going to share it. If it helps somebody, say, 'Hey, I'm kinda in that same position,' and he ended up getting it, so why can't I?"
  —Tony Mandarich ([68:13])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Peer Pressure to Use Steroids & Accountability:

  "Was it wrong for doing them? Absolutely. But you can’t just say, hey, it was all because of the steroids." (17:32)

• On Painkillers vs. Steroids:

  "It definitely gave you a psychological edge...Some can make you really mean. There was some I took for a day or two and I was like, I can’t, because I’m walking around looking to pick a fight." (18:29)

• Lessons on Identity:

  "With football it’s like, yeah, I did that, but that’s not me. I’m not a football player anymore. I’m almost a 60 year old guy that is grateful to be alive. I’m just a guy." (63:13)

• On Daily Grace:

  "Every morning when I wake up, I’m like, thank you. Another day to participate in life, you know?" (40:27)

---

Timestamps for Critical Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamps (MM:SS) | |---------|--------------|--------| | 1 | Early football dreams & college days | 10:47–16:45 | | 2 | NFL draft, career expectations & steroid discourse | 17:12–22:41 | | 3 | Addiction, painkiller dependence & Green Bay decline | 23:34–27:00 | | 4 | Intervention, rehab & timeline blackout | 37:11–40:58 | | 5 | NFL comeback & wisdom learned | 42:04–47:01 | | 6 | Gospel, discipleship, and the inadequacy of “higher power” | 51:12–54:40 | | 7 | Moving from “addict” to “child of God” | 62:18–63:28 | | 8 | Social media outreach, TikTok, and Q&A with fans | 64:50–67:11 |

---

Present Day: Coaching, Speaking, and Ministry

• Coaching: One-on-one sobriety and life coaching (TonyMandarichCoaching.com launched Jan 2026).
• Public Speaking: Honest, transparent motivational talks on addiction and faith.
• Content Creation: Active on TikTok, livestreams nightly about sobriety, faith, football, and encourages open engagement—even from detractors.

---

Closing Thoughts

Tony Mandarich’s story is a rare public testimony of humility, honesty, and the power of gospel transformation. His journey through the NFL, addiction, and recovery is not just a sports cautionary tale—but a powerful parable about misplaced worship, true identity, and the grace found only in Christ. Luke and Tony’s camaraderie keeps the tone heartfelt, blunt, and often funny—even when wrestling with fraught or painful truths.

---

Find Tony Mandarich:

• TonyMandarichCoaching.com
• TikTok: nightly livestreams (8pm, sobriety, faith, football Q&A)

---

This summary skips advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content banter as requested.

Transcript

[Dominion Wealth Representative]

For most people, their finances aren't one big problem. It's a hundred small ones. A retirement account from a job five years ago. A budget that lives in your head but never on paper. Life insurance that you meant to look into. A will half finished or not even started. And the longer you leave those loose ends untied, the harder it becomes to move forward with peace of mind. At Dominion wealth, we walk with you step by step to help you tie it all together. We meet you where you are. We listen. We get your financial picture out of your head and into practice. Then we build a strategy to meet your needs. Now, prepare for your future and bless the next generation. We don't pressure you. We give biblical, honest guidance. Let the strategy follow your values and help find the right solutions. If your financial path feels uncertain, let's get together one on one and get you on the right track. Book a free consultation today. We are here to help you get your finances in order so you can feel confident about the future. From baptism to burial, Dominion's got you covered. You can find us at Reform Money.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Non rockabotists must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

[Tony Mandarich]

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?

[Luke the Bear]

Delusional.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, delusional is okay in your worldview, I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise P and delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

[Tony Mandarich]

She hung up on me.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

[Luke the Bear]

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world to make buddies, not to make corrosives. Right. Don't go in the world, make homies. Right. Disciples.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I got a bit of a jiggle neck.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's a joke, Pastor.

[Tony Mandarich]

When we have the real message of

[Luke the Bear]

truth, we cannot let somebody say they're

[Tony Mandarich]

speaking truth when they're not.

[Luke the Bear]

Take an amazing journey to a place that will blow your mind and move

[Tony Mandarich]

your mind so you will never be the same again.

[Luke the Bear]

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that he may know Him. Excuse me. So that we may know him who is true and we are in him who is true and his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God in eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. And that is from First John 5, verses 20 to 21. What's everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Apology Radio. Luke the Bear hosting today. Pastor Jeff's taking some time off, much needed time off with his family. He's been traveling all over the place for our equal protection bills and so grateful for the work God's doing through all, all of you. That support in abortion now and the apology of church Apology. We're grateful. We've been all over the place. And Jeff was just in Georgia and Illinois. We just announced today actually when a pastor's meeting will be in Tennessee on March 10th. We just dropped that for another pastors meeting there. So if you're in the Nashville area, I believe it's technically a church in Antioch. But 5:30pm on Tuesday, March 10, we'll be there. We have dual bills in Tennessee right now in the House and Senate. Pretty excited about that. And so we still got stuff going on in all the states we're working in and. And still got in Idaho, Illinois, Georgia, again, Tennessee. There's more. I just saw Kentucky just dropped the bill. It's keeping us on our toes. But anyways, I'm excited to for the show today for a number of reasons. One, my guest here I'm gonna introduce is literally larger than life. He makes me look small, which is hard to do. I'm very excited about. But I have my friend Tony Mandarich with me today. What's up, Tony?

[Tony Mandarich]

How are you, man?

[Luke the Bear]

Good, man. Glad you're here. I've got to know Tony really well over what, three, four years now? Something like that?

[Tony Mandarich]

Almost five.

[Luke the Bear]

Almost five years. Yeah. And I'm also excited because I don't get to normally talk football. Jeff wouldn't know a football from any other sports. Ball. Just say that. So very excited. Anybody that knows me well knows I love football. I played 12 seasons of football. You know, I was doing the math. It's like a quarter of my life was dedicated to football. So I don't get to talk about it very much. I'm very excited. And Tony has a very great football story we're going to talk about, so we'll just get into it. So what's up, man? How are you doing?

[Tony Mandarich]

It's good to be here. It's good to be here. I've. Yeah, I've been coming around for almost five years now and. And just watching things grow and. And things are good, you know, no complaints. Yeah. Good challenges, but you just keep going, right?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. You're looking good.

[Tony Mandarich]

I feel good. I feel good.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, you've been working out a lot.

[Tony Mandarich]

Working out probably four times a week.

[Luke the Bear]

Nice.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know, nothing extreme, but four times a week. All for quality of life. Don't have to be the strongest guy in the weight room anymore, you know.

[Luke the Bear]

Let me hear. I'm just going to pull this up right here. We're just going to give you and

[Tony Mandarich]

pull that up way back in the day.

[Luke the Bear]

Way back in the day.

[Tony Mandarich]

So 1989 on the left, 1992 on the right.

[Luke the Bear]

Man, we'll. We'll get into all that. Story. There's a. There's a long story there.

[Tony Mandarich]

There is. There's a long story there.

[Luke the Bear]

66315 and unbelievable. We were just laughing about those massive shoulder pads.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yep.

[Luke the Bear]

And those neck rolls. And it's funny because I was watching somebody dropped in my junior year we won state and someone finally put up the highlight from that. My old VHS. You know, it was up on YouTube right now. I was watching it and I was like, those massive pads, big old giant face mask. And we look so cool, mean.

[Tony Mandarich]

And now it's literally like the opposite. Yeah, it's like all the pads that fit are fitted to your body and all that. So it's almost gone polar.

[Luke the Bear]

They were like so not practical.

[Tony Mandarich]

No, no, no, no.

[Luke the Bear]

You just looked. Looked mean. But here I'm going to play this video real quick. I love, I love if you want to, if you ever want to football. You wanted something fun to do. Look up some Tony Mandrit or Michigan State highlights. Well, and there's some good NFL ones too. But with Indy. With Indy. With Indy. We'll talk about that here.

[Tony Mandarich]

Tony Mandarich is the draftee. This guy once in a lifetime.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

He's a great player, Bob. When you watch him, he just dominates play after play. Great physical ability. But he utilizes those skills on every down and that's rare to see that in the college football players. Look how he just drive these guys off the ball. Just a great football player.

[Tony Mandarich]

Never quits.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

He'll be down the field 20, 25 y occasion you can see here in pass block and pass protection very rarely allows any penetration by the defensive lineman. Just a great bookend left tackle who will really help the Green Bay Packers. 46 speed at over 300 pounds and the likes of which we've never seen we are waiting on.

[Luke the Bear]

I mean 46 is fast. Now for an O lineman.

[Tony Mandarich]

Here's the funny thing. There's not been an offensive lineman run a faster 40.

[Luke the Bear]

Are you serious?

[Tony Mandarich]

But they won't take mine as the record. Oh, well, this Is what they say. They say it's because it was done on a handheld. That's why they say. I think it's for another reason.

[Luke the Bear]

For another reason.

[Tony Mandarich]

But that being said, like, when they did the handheld, when they clocked that thing at Michigan State, There was probably 30 scouts, GMs position coaches at the 40 yard line and they were all like, with their, you know, little clocks out. So, you know what they did was they averaged the times it came out to 464. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

So gotcha. So you had some faster than that.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, but. So you know when somebody might have clicked the thing too quickly and some were slower and they clicked it too late, but they averaged it, which is fair enough. But they won't. They won't recognize that as the record I'm thinking of starting to go fund me to get into. No, no, no.

[Luke the Bear]

So what. What is the official lineman record?

[Tony Mandarich]

I think it's 4, 74 or something. Almost. Almost a full second.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, my goodness.

[Tony Mandarich]

Which. Think about it, at a full sprint, a full second is probably 78 yards. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

That's crazy. Did you. Did you keep your speed?

[Tony Mandarich]

I was. I was always blessed with speed playing soccer growing up in Canada and always had speed. I ran a 47 my freshman year at Michigan State. You know, that was chemical free for the most part. Well, we'll get to that. Wait a second.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay, I. You must have had literally the most loaded draft class in NFL history.

[Tony Mandarich]

I know.

[Luke the Bear]

I pulled it up. Right. Like, it's crazy how many. Even so, the dark yell are all hall of Famers.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. So for the first five.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

And then who is so.

[Luke the Bear]

I don't know. Gabe. Gabe, pull this up.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

So everybody can see this.

[Tony Mandarich]

Well, I think that's what this is. What made this draft, like one of the things that made it so infamous, this draft.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

I mean.

[Luke the Bear]

I mean, as a Lions fan, I'm thankful that.

[Tony Mandarich]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Well, thankful.

[Tony Mandarich]

You're welcome. You're welcome, buddy. I think Barry. Listen, Barry would have been a. In my opinion, he is the goat of running.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

Thank you. I agree. I think. I think he had a better career on turf than he would have on grass. Like artificial turf.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Tony Mandarich]

Just because of his style. Now, I'm not saying in Green Bay he wouldn't have been a Hall of Famer, but it all worked out exactly

[Luke the Bear]

the way it was supposed to. Yeah, sure. God. Sovereign.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right, Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Still, though, I mean, like.

[Tony Mandarich]

Well, Steve Atwater was like taken 20th or something. He's all. He kind of, you know, stopped Christian

[Luke the Bear]

Nikoya in his tracks, you know, I mean, like, the. The pressure alone from that.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Isn't fair.

[Tony Mandarich]

Well, think about Derek Thomas, who was the fourth overall pick. A year later, he sets the NFL record for seven sacks in one game against the Seahawks, against Dave Craig. That. That record still holds. You know, I did not know that. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, Barry from day one was.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

Incredible. And. And then, you know, Dion.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

Was great. Troy got hurt his first year. He broke his arm. So, you know, he played maybe half the season.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

But everybody else, I mean, look for hall of Famers.

[Luke the Bear]

That's as. I mean, it just. Yeah. I mean, the. The names on that list, even the ones that aren't hall of Famers, just crazy talented. But. All right, so bring us into your story here. Wherever you want to start.

[Tony Mandarich]

To start. Where to start. Right. I mean, in a linear time fashion. You know, look at 11 years old, which is when I see an 11 year old now a kid. Right. I'm like, man, I made my decision at that age. And I'm like, I can't believe I made it at that age because it's so young. But literally, in Canada, I was like, I'm going to play in the NFL. This is what I'm going to do for a living. You know, And. And then I was like, you know, and why I put the pencil to the paper, I have no idea. But it was just something I did and have been doing ever since. And then my brother was five years older. He helped me kind of, you know, segment things like, look, you can't start work lifting weights at 11. You can do. You can run, you can do push ups, you can do sit ups, you can do chin ups, all that stuff. You know, play in the neighborhood, play soccer, play, you know, neighborhood football. But he kind of laid it out, like, in a general way. He's like, okay, you got to get to high school, then you got to play well in high school. You got to get a scholarship, and. And then you got to do well and get drafted. And. And really, that was the plan. And the plan worked. The plan worked. I mean, of course, there's hiccups and speed bumps and you gotta adjust. But somewhere in that plan, I deviated. And that was probably the last month I was in high school. Like in May, right before we graduated, I already had a scholarship to Michigan State.

[Luke the Bear]

Sorry I wore a, um, hat today. We. We joke. He's like, he's a sparty.

[Tony Mandarich]

Thanks for thinking of me.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes, but.

[Tony Mandarich]

But, yeah, that would have Been this. Michigan would have been my second choice.

[Luke the Bear]

And tell everybody why you didn't want to go to Michigan.

[Tony Mandarich]

It's. It's a funny reason why, like, the. The guy that was the good story. The guy that was the recruiter. So. So Saban recruited me to Michigan State. The guy that recruited me to Michigan, you know, of course you're gonna. You're gonna brag about your school, and if you're a coach and you're recruiting. He was bragging about. One of the things he said was, you know, did you, like, did you know that. I mean, that the moon has a flag of University of Michigan on it? And I was like, I really don't care. Like, what does that have to do with me playing football at Michigan? Right. And it just turned me off a little bit. And then he dropped a few. Just a few little things here and there that were kind of like. I don't want to say they were smug. They were slightly arrogant. But you know what? Look, if you do have a flag on the moon, you can brag about it. You know what I'm saying? I mean, if you do that. And I had a ton of respect for Bo Schambechler, you know, throughout all my high school years and stuff, even in Canada, when I was in Canada. So they would have been my second choice. The only. So that's why I didn't go to Michigan. Plus Michigan State, all the offensive linemen were juniors going into their senior year, so it would have given me an opportunity to play early.

[Luke the Bear]

And academics weren't as much of a priority.

[Tony Mandarich]

My ACT was enough to throw that out there. Plenty. Fine. Although today I'm not a doctor, lawyer, or engineer for that matter, which. Michigan is a great institution for school and look, and for football.

[Luke the Bear]

Amen.

[Tony Mandarich]

I'm not going to kid myself.

[Luke the Bear]

Thank you. You heard that?

[Tony Mandarich]

That's. Look, no. Fingers crossed. It's true. And. And. And listen. Yeah. We deserve to be called little brother after the last five years.

[Luke the Bear]

Hey, both of our programs had a rough off season.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

But we both got good coaches moving forward, so I'm excited. I mean, I love Pat Fitzgerald, so I. I think it's gonna give you guys. Anyway, sorry. I got. It's. So you had your scholarship last month of high school?

[Tony Mandarich]

Yep. And then. And then deviate, like. Like I was working out, like, a lot. And. And I just had this one mental thing I couldn't break through, and that was benching 315, which is three big plates on each side, and I could do 295 for five, but I couldn't do 315 for one. So I took some very mild steroids and like within a week I was doing 325 and I was like, well, you know, this is a good thing. Right? And then, you know, and then so as I went to Michigan State, I continued to do that with other, you know, the whole variety of steroids and really that's veering off the path. It's like the rules say don't do it. And I did it and I knew the rules, you know, so I made a conscious decision to break the rule. And, you know, I don't recommend anybody use them, but I don't regret anything I did because of where I'm at today. You know, all that pain and all that anguish caused me to face it and then be where I'm at today. Which today I have a lot of work to do, but I'm comfortable in my own skin.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. Okay. So you go to Michigan State and dominate there. Talk about that.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, not at the beginning, obviously. It's like first year was red shirted. Second year became a four year starter. Oh, okay. You know, and playing teams like Michigan, playing teams like Notre Dame, playing teams like Florida State made me realize like, okay, these guys are larger than life. Because when I came to Michigan state, I was 275 and you know, now like those guys, like, I don't know if you remember that tackle for Michigan, Jumbo Elliott.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

Okay. Like the stud. Right. Played for the Giants for years. He was ginormous. And I thought, if I'm going to play tackle, I need to put some weight on. And, you know, dedicated. And then going into that fourth year of my fourth year, you know, became All American, became all Big Ten, lineman of the offensive lineman of the year, went to the Rose Bowl. We, you know, won the Rose Bowl.

[Luke the Bear]

I didn't know that.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, we beat usc. You must have blocked that out in your mind.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, I mean, I was, I was little then.

[Tony Mandarich]

You weren't even born.

[Luke the Bear]

I was. It was 88.

[Tony Mandarich]

It was January 1st. 88, yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

So I was almost seven.

[Tony Mandarich]

Okay, well, you might have made.

[Luke the Bear]

I didn't really get into football till like fourth grade, so I would have. Yeah. Anyways.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And then fifth year there, because I got red shirt my again, All American, Big Ten line of the year. All the accolades and stuff was up for the outland. Finished second, sixth in the Heisman, which we weren't even expecting to place in the Heisman.

[Luke the Bear]

That's crazy.

[Tony Mandarich]

And Just great, you know, great stuff. All great stuff if you want to make it to the next level. Level. And. But, you know, I was. At that time, right when I was getting done, I realized I can't do this in the pros because their testing is a little bit more sophisticated. And so I just got off of them right after I got drafted, actually. I got off of them 16 weeks before the combine, and the combine is now. So I got off of them in, like, October.

[Luke the Bear]

So as soon as the season was over, basically.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Or maybe a little bit, we went to Gator Bull. So it was. Yeah, it was. Because, you know, if. If I test dirty at the combine, you're gonna lose a lot of money.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

No matter what you run.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

So.

[Luke the Bear]

So it didn't really affect you at the combine, though, apparently.

[Tony Mandarich]

No. I mean, I say no. I don't say that to defend it, but, you know, people will say, well, the reason you ran fast is because of that, the steroids. Right. It's like, well, you still got to be able to run. You know, it's like the reason you played football. You were all Americans because you took steroids. Well, there's a lot of. Most all Americans don't take steroids. So how did they become all Americans? Right. You still have to have talent. You still have to do the work. You still have to wake up every morning and do everything. Was it wrong for doing them? Absolutely. But you can't just say, hey, it was all because of the steroids.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure, I understand. Well, I mean, we'll get into this. You obviously had. Still had a fairly decent NFL career, so it's not like there's obviously natural talent there. So, like, what kind of. How much of an edge do you think it gave you, the steroids? I.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know, psychologically, I'd say about 30. And. But physically, I'd say 20, 25% more psychological.

[Luke the Bear]

You were meaner.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Yeah. When I. When I look back, I'm like, I'm not that guy. Like, I like the root of me, the core of me is not that guy. And. But being on them make. Yeah. Some of them, not all of them. Some of them can make you really mean. Like, there was some I took for a day or two, and I was like, I can't, because I'm walking around looking to pick a fight, and that's just not me.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, well.

[Tony Mandarich]

But, yeah, it definitely gave you a psychological edge.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay, so you get the draft probably was April that year. I'm assuming, number two overall to the Packers. Were you wanting to go to Green Bay.

[Tony Mandarich]

No, I didn't. You know, I wanted to go to a large city market and stuff. Taking a step back now I'm like, Green Bay would have, is a great market because with all the fans and the tradition of the NFL and stuff. But it was just again, arrogance, close mindedness. It's all, it's all about me. Right. And I was like, okay, if I get drafted to Green Bay, obviously I'm going to, you know, make the best of it. So. Got drafted by Green Bay. Dallas had called my agent and they said a week before the draft they said, we're going to take Troy Aikman. So then Green Bay.

[Luke the Bear]

Good choice.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right, right. And then Green Bay said, called my agent and said, look, if they, if they, if what Dallas is saying is true, if they don't kind of renege on it, we're going to take Tony. So we knew, like, it was kind of, you know, a little surreal that it was happening and then. But the actual draft day, it's like we knew for a week that I was going to get drafted.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, it was no secret.

[Tony Mandarich]

No, I mean, the media didn't know. Yeah, but we knew.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Okay, so. So tell us about that then. Your, your transition into the NFL, it was cool.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know, I was, I held out for the big contract and got there. I think it was September 5th, which camp was already over. It was like four days before the opener and.

[Luke the Bear]

Did you say September 5th?

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Yeah, right. I missed all of camp as a rookie. Right. And no expectations on me. Of course. I dig in my own hole here. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

And so I get there late. You gotta. And then they gave me a two week roster exemption so I could do everything but play, which was fine because you have to learn the offense and that offense was very complex.

[Luke the Bear]

So who was your quarterback?

[Tony Mandarich]

Makowski. That's what I thought for three years. But then his rookie.

[Luke the Bear]

You're far from his rookie year.

[Tony Mandarich]

Second year. Because he was a rookie.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

First year he was at Green Bay though.

[Luke the Bear]

That's right. Okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

But, but yeah, it was, it was, you know, I didn't, I didn't start any games that year. My rookie year I played in a lot of them, but I didn't start any. And, and then, you know, that off season came around, worked on things. Started all 16, my second and third year and then my fourth year I had a concussion in preseason, which kind of put me out for the year. Wow.

[Luke the Bear]

I didn't realize it was a concussion. The digian.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Well, it was. It was a combination. A combination of a few hundred other things.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Wow. Okay. So did you. Do you think that coming into the camp late, did that really affect you in a bad way, you think?

[Tony Mandarich]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it set me behind. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

Plus loud, you know, very outspoken, very loud, very arrogant. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do all these great things. And then so there's all these expectations, as there should be, and then, you know, I come in and come in late. Now, Granite became the highest paid offensive lineman ever in the NFL. Okay. Which a lot of linemen resented that. Sure. Okay. But I kept saying to those guys, just an FYI, guys, when you renegotiate, you're gonna get more money. Right. You know, and then they work. And then the next year, I did you a favor. Right, Right. I mean, in a way. Right. But the next year, there was 28 offensive linemen that made more money than I did, you know, like in the ones that should, like Munoz and these guys that have been all pros for years. So it was. It was a good thing. If you look at. If you take. Always take a step back and look at the whole picture, it's like there's net goods and net not so goods. A lot of the people that just. They either, you know, they're haters. So. And it's like, I wouldn't ask that person for advice, so I don't care what he says about me anyway.

[Luke the Bear]

So did your. Did your teammates give you a hard time for coming in late?

[Tony Mandarich]

They razzed me. Yeah. They bantered with me, but it was all like, they wouldn't have bantered with me if they didn't like me.

[Luke the Bear]

Gotcha.

[Tony Mandarich]

So it was that kind of banter. There was one or two that. That didn't like me, which in return, I returned the favor. You know, liking them. They were just resentful. They didn't care about all the. The pr. And I get it. I totally. I totally get it. And. And I think. I think they still feel that way, you know, even all these decades later. But it's a lot of space to run out in your head. Yeah. Over something really not that important.

[Luke the Bear]

I mean, shoot, we're going on, what,

[Tony Mandarich]

almost 40 years.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Crazy. Okay, so tell us. Tell us what happened there in Green Bay, because things started to unravel and fall apart for you.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, they unravel. So I stopped, obviously, the steroid use because of the testing, but I almost replaced it instantly with opiates, painkillers, and alcohol. And really my addiction just took off there. By the time I left Green Bay in 92, the December of 92 after the season, I mean, I was, I mean, I was 100% new. Like for the last two and a half, three years, I was addicted to painkillers. I thought I kept it hidden pretty well. There were some people that suspected things. But when I look back at some of the interviews that I did during those years, I can't believe, like, I just, I just look at me and how sick I looked like sick, like ill, that somebody didn't like, just pull me aside and say, I think we need to go to treatment or a hospital or something. And I don't blame them. Like, I'm not saying the Green Bay should have or shouldn't have. I just find it interesting that, you know, when I look at it now, how, how way out there I was.

[Luke the Bear]

Were you, did you start taking opiates because you were in pain or to.

[Tony Mandarich]

As a coping mechanism in Green Bay? As a coping mechanism? Because I had taken painkillers in college for pain and, and then when I didn't have pain, I didn't take them. Took them for what they were prescribed for in, in Green Bay. I took them to get out of reality because it was so much pressure coming from everywhere and, you know, one wrong move and this or that and, you know, the, the, just the pressure and then there's that psychological pressure of not doing steroids anymore. So you have this 30% edge. Now it's gone and it's like, oh, now what am I going to do? You just go into panic mode. Right. And so it was 100% motivation was to get out of reality.

[Luke the Bear]

So what, so talking about the not taking serious, like, what effect did that have on your, on your, on your

[Tony Mandarich]

game, then I would say it did have some effect, but not, not nearly as much as people think.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Tony Mandarich]

It maybe had 15%. Okay. So if you take the football player from, from college and take 15% away from that football player, still pretty good. I mean, to be drafted that high and you still got ability and all that, and you still got a lot of strength. If you're benching, if now you're benching 500 instead of 585, you're still pretty strong.

[Luke the Bear]

Is that what you were benching?

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, but the, and you're in here.

[Luke the Bear]

This all started because you wanted to

[Tony Mandarich]

get 315 right when it all started. Wow, how, how funny it creeps up on you, but.

[Luke the Bear]

And you got big long arms, too.

[Tony Mandarich]

So that's hard.

[Luke the Bear]

That's impressive. It's not. You don't have those short alligator arms, like. Right, that's right.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right. You know, but I always say, look, long arms, short arms. You still got to push it. Yeah, I got to push it up.

[Luke the Bear]

But I always got mad at the short armors.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right, right. But they. That's not as fast either.

[Luke the Bear]

Right.

[Tony Mandarich]

Because they're short legs.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, that's true.

[Tony Mandarich]

But.

[Luke the Bear]

It's true.

[Tony Mandarich]

But, yeah, the. That got out of control. The opiates got out of control. And then in December, when the season was over and my contract was over, Ron Wolf and Holmgren. Mike Holmgren said that they were not gonna go after me, like, just to resign. You know, at that point, my attitude was like, well, good, because I don't want to play for the Packers. And it was. Because it was media's fault. It was a Packers fault. It was everybody's fault. But mine. I was. That's the place I happened to wear.

[Luke the Bear]

Don't be a victory right now. I didn't do that. I didn't do that intentionally. But it just.

[Tony Mandarich]

And the Michigan hat. Just dig it in and twist it. But. But it was. Yeah, it was. It was hard. That's not a fun place to be at in life when it's everybody's fault. Like, my life would be so much better if all these people would do it the way I think they should do it. Right. And then, you know, obviously, another three years later when I clean up and sober up, I start to see, you know what? I'm the common denominator and all these problems. So

[Luke the Bear]

are Green Bay fans still mad at you?

[Tony Mandarich]

Some are, but I'll tell you what.

[Luke the Bear]

You've made some peace, though. I know.

[Tony Mandarich]

I tell you, there's like. There's some. There's some fans that are just incredible. Like, never met them, never anything. They'll DM me. They'll come into a tick tock live, and. And they're like, you know, this is the last thing I expected was this guy. Like, at first I was like, this is not that guy. Because they just thought it was somebody else. And they're like, wait, this is this guy. Like, only an act of providence could change what just happened, like, from the guy that we knew, you know, so it's always, people do forgive, People do forgive, and people do have grace. They do.

[Luke the Bear]

That's awesome.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

So just. Just curious, did getting off the steroids of that slow you down at all or like, speed? Yeah, speed wise.

[Tony Mandarich]

Not really. Yeah, but. But it slowed Me down as far as making me lethargic. Like not. Not getting off the steroids, but getting on the painkillers.

[Luke the Bear]

I see.

[Tony Mandarich]

Because that's. Painkillers, like alcohol are a downer. Right. They're not an upper. So you just become lethargic. If it was. If there was no painkillers involved, something, I wouldn't have been any. Like, okay, maybe I would have been a tick slower. But at that point, it doesn't. Doesn't make enough of a difference.

[Luke the Bear]

So you think the. Your perspective then is the decline in play and physique and all strength and all that was more because of the. The drugs than the painkillers. The painkillers.

[Tony Mandarich]

Painkillers and. Or alcohol.

[Luke the Bear]

They're not getting off the steroids big time. Gotcha.

[Tony Mandarich]

Interesting.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay, man, that's crazy.

[Tony Mandarich]

Which a lot of people don't know. Even though I wrote a book and went public with it in 2009 with everything. Like, most of the people still think it was all because of the steroids.

[Luke the Bear]

Well, yeah. I mean, you just Google your name. It just, you know those pict come up. The Incredible Bulk and the Incredible Bus. Like, those are your pictures. But you said you sign all the time still. Yeah, but that's. That's what's attached to your name is steroid. So there, there's no. Nobody knows any of the other stuff.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And you know, like, both those covers. Like, one is good, one is not so good. It's like at one time I was both of those things, but I'm today I'm neither one of those things.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes. You know, which we'll talk about. Okay, so you get. You didn't get cut, but you just didn't get re signed.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. It was a polite way of saying you're fired.

[Luke the Bear]

Was there any interest from any other teams?

[Tony Mandarich]

There was. There was. And you'll get a kick out of this. So I flew to Miami, like in like say, March of 93, flew to Miami. And I'm deep in the addiction now. Okay. I'm living in Michigan, deep in the addiction. Fly to Miami.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

[Tony Mandarich]

And I, and I, and I end up, you know, they test me for the bench test and all that stuff. They test my 40. I ran a 5, 4 40, and that's the fastest I could run. Like, that was as fast as I could.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, my goodness.

[Tony Mandarich]

So like, like, that's pretty slow.

[Luke the Bear]

That's slow.

[Tony Mandarich]

That's like really slow. And so that'll give you some perspective on the scale of impact that all those opiates had like, you know, just slowing you down, making you lethargic. Yeah, it was.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow.

[Tony Mandarich]

And, you know, being on them already four or five years, like abusing them for four or five years. And then that's what happens. And then obviously they were like, yeah, we're not gonna.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow.

[Tony Mandarich]

And so then I was, you know, got that resentment of, well, I don't want to play in the NFL anyway. I mean, they're all like, against me. And, and then, you know, Nothing happened until 1995 rolled around.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow. Okay, so hold that thought. We're gonna go to a break here. We'll hear from our, our partner, Iron Layer. And then we come back. We'll pick up, pick up that story.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

This episode's brought to you by ion [e-mail] Go and check out the health benefits, the wellness benefits and longevity benefits of NAD treatments. NAD is nicknamed the fountain of youth for a reason. You have an abundance of this in your system when you're young. As you get older, it drops off. And now we found a way to get NAD into our systems and they do it through IV treatments, but they're very expensive and it's also extremely painful and difficult. However, Ion Layer found a way to get a high dose of NAD into your system through a medical patch you wear on your arm. You wear it for about 14 hours, you get a high dose of NAD treatment into your system and no pain at all. And it is a fraction of the cost of what you would pay for an IV treatment. In the coupon code, type in Apologia in all caps. They're going to hook you up with a great disc discount for an already amazingly cost effective product. And they bless Apologia Studios and help us to stay on the air and do all these programs with you. Don't forget. Also, Ion Layer has added a glutathione patch as well. Glutathione, the master antioxidant. Go check out the health benefits of glutathione. I'm doing this stuff anyways. It's blessed my life in tremendous ways. And so if you want to focus on your health, wellness and longevity, nothing better in my mind than ionlayer.com for your NAD and Glutathione treatments. Ionlayer.com don't forget to put Apologia in all caps in the coupon code.

[Luke the Bear]

Welcome back, everybody. Appreciate you all for sticking around and thank you Iron Layer for your partnership. So we'll get right back in here. So Miami said no thanks and that was the only interest you really had.

[Tony Mandarich]

San Diego.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

So I went from. I flew to Miami, did the workout, then flew to San Diego, did the workout, and then flew back to Michigan.

[Luke the Bear]

What. What happened in San Diego?

[Tony Mandarich]

Same sundial, 40. And that was just one of the things. Right. They sat down and interviewed and. And then actually it was on my way. So I, you know, and San Diego was like, okay, thanks, we'll contact your agent. And then on the way back, there was one more stop. It was in Cleveland. Did my workout and stuff. Belichick was the head coach.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

And Saban was the defensive coordinator. So that's why, like, Nick wanted me to come in. So I sat. I mean, this is. I sat on a four hour interview with Belichick in his office at the Cleveland Browns facility. It was the driest. It was the driest four hours I've ever spent in my life. I believe it. Oh, my gosh. And you know, he's Croatian. Sabin's Croatian, I'm Croatian. So there was a little bit of that connection. But he was so dry, kind of like he is now. And then, you know, nothing that happened there, obviously. And then went to Michigan back.

[Luke the Bear]

What were you weighing at when you were 290? So you actually lost weight from. Was it all muscle mass you lost?

[Tony Mandarich]

I'd say probably three quarters of. It was like 75% of it was.

[Luke the Bear]

So obviously you knew Saban well. Like, did. When you, like, went to that interview with the. With Cleveland, was he like, what's going on with you?

[Tony Mandarich]

You know, I think he was. I think the look on his face when he first saw me was like, this is not the guy that I recruited.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know, so he didn't really say anything as far as pull me aside or anything to say, are you okay? Or anything. And of course, I'm trying to put my best, you know, face forward and look like nothing's wrong. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, sure.

[Tony Mandarich]

I'm dying inside.

[Luke the Bear]

Drink a lot of caffeine that day.

[Tony Mandarich]

But so it was. So, yeah, I mean, Nick was. Nick has always been great. Nick has always been great. But you know what? All three of those places I visited, they all treated me fairly. It was. There was no bias for anything. And they made a decision based on result. Yeah, sure. And I don't blame them.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. So that was 92.

[Tony Mandarich]

93.

[Luke the Bear]

93.

[Tony Mandarich]

Spring of 93.

[Luke the Bear]

So then. Then what happens? They didn't go in the toilet.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And I'm like, I'm done with football. I'm not even going to try to play. I don't want to play football. Football wronged me. Right. That whole bad attitude.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

And then, you know, my brother died that spring, 31 years old of cancer two months before that, got cut or got released by the packers or they were not going to renegotiate. And then. And then two and a half years go by of my addiction just getting worse and just living in Michigan, doing

[Luke the Bear]

nothing in Traverse City. Traverse City, one of my favorite cities.

[Tony Mandarich]

Beautiful.

[Luke the Bear]

I love it up there.

[Tony Mandarich]

Beautiful up there.

[Luke the Bear]

It's not a bad place to live.

[Tony Mandarich]

It's not. But yeah, two and a half more years went by of just. The addiction got deeper, deeper, darker and darker.

[Luke the Bear]

And you were married, correct? Yep. And you both were headlong into addiction? Yep. Same stuff.

[Tony Mandarich]

Same stuff, yeah. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Did you pretty much blow through all your money you made?

[Tony Mandarich]

No, I'd say I blew through enough of it, though. Like, like 60 of it. Like, way more than. Than somebody that had a, like, sober mind would have because I was, you know, spending money on nonsense stuff that didn't, you know, appreciate in value or whatever. But. But no, I had not blown through it all yet.

[Luke the Bear]

Did you. Did you fly from Green Bay to Traverse City across the lake? How did you get back and forth?

[Tony Mandarich]

No, usually I drove. Sometimes. Sometimes I would take the ferry.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

But. But, like, maybe it took the ferry five times, but I. Would you go around the north? Yeah. Up. Interstate. Well, not interstate, but State Road 2.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

Across the up.

[Luke the Bear]

How long would drive was that? About seven.

[Tony Mandarich]

Seven. Seven and a half hours.

[Luke the Bear]

That's not a bad way.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, no, no, it's a real mistress. It's. It's. It's a little bit rougher.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you spend two and a half, three years doing that. Like, then, like, what snapped you out

[Tony Mandarich]

of that, you know, Again, it was a good buddy of mine in Michigan. He was my weightlifting partner at the time. And he just said, if you don't change what you're doing, he's like, you're going to die. And then one of the things he said was. And he was saying this as a loving friend, and he said, you know, you've been out of the league two and a half years now. And I was like, I haven't been out of the league two and a half years. I've been out of it like nine months. And he's like, no, you've been out two and a half years. So I walked up to the calendar, the calendar on the wall, right. With the nice duck pictures and stuff, and I looked at it, and I Was like, oh, my gosh, it has been two and a half years. And it's like. So that's the kind of fog. The fog of time. Right. I never was really a blackout drinker or a blackout drug user. I mean, I used pharmaceuticals. But you're still a drug user.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Tony Mandarich]

So I wasn't a blackout drug user or drinker. But that reality of time, you know, gets.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, you're a functional drunk.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. At. At your peak, how much. How many. How much opiates and how much were you drinking a day?

[Tony Mandarich]

At the worst, which was in the last three months before I got. So I would burn through like 70 or 80 painkillers a day.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, my goodness.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And. And on days like that, I wouldn't have to drink because painkillers on. When I was starting to run low on painkillers, that's what. I would incorporate alcohol to make up for some of it if I knew I couldn't get a prescription. But at one point, I had eight doctors in four different states, you know, where I was getting refills of a hundred per month. Right. And. And it was still ended up short, you know, so. But yeah, those last three months were the worst. And then, you know, my buddy talked to me and I had that realization of, wow, it has been two and a half years. And then I was like, you know, looked in front of the mirror and I told him I'd give him a decision the next day because he wanted me to go to treatment. It was the one thing I never tried. I tried to get sober probably hundreds of different ways on my own, but I never tried treatment. He said, you know, think about it. I said, I'll give you an answer in the morning. And inside I was like, there ain't no way I'm going to treatment. And when he left, I went to the bathroom mirror and I just kind of looked at, like, literally I looked at myself in the mirror and I was, like, disgusted with what I saw. And I could start to see. It was like the mirror was a little bit less foggy because I could see through all the BS and see what I was like, what I became. And I was like. And I knew that night I was like, no, I'm. I'm definitely gonna go. And then the next morning, we said yes. And then it was like a three or four day waiting period till they had a bed open and. And then went down to Detroit and did it for seven.

[Luke the Bear]

Did you and your wife both go or just you?

[Tony Mandarich]

We both did.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

Two to two separate Centers, though.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, okay. I mean, it's. It's a miracle that that amount of pills alone didn't kill you.

[Tony Mandarich]

I mean, 100.

[Luke the Bear]

That's crazy.

[Tony Mandarich]

And that, you know, that went on for like, the last three months of, like, think about that every day. And. And it's. It is amazing. It's. It's like, listen, there's been many times I've said, I'm living on borrowed time. Yeah. And many times I've said, only by the grace of God am I still here. And even now, it's like almost 60 years old. And I'm like, thank you. Every morning when I wake up, I'm like, thank you. Another day to participate in life, you know?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, man. Okay, so you go to treatment. How was that? Like a 30 day or.

[Tony Mandarich]

It was a 30 day. I went 17 days because I was paying for it pocket. So, you know, after 17 days, they start this whole program over again. And I was like, I don't need to see it again. I got it. Like, I was like, I got it. And they were like, you're cocky. You don't understand. I was like, okay, I could be, but I understand what needs to be done. It was very simple, laid out very simply, and I could. I could execute that.

[Luke the Bear]

Just curious. I mean, I know the NFL PA has changed quite a bit since you were like, was there any help at all, like, from the players Association?

[Tony Mandarich]

Not. Not a bit. Not a bit. You know, just to go fast forward a little bit. In the 2000s, like in that first decade of the 2000s, I offered. I would contact the NFLPA and the NFL and offer them and say to them, look, I think I'd be a good fit for. To speak at rookie orientation, just to kind of give them a cautious, you know, cautionary tale. And they always were like, you know, because I had already retired with the comeback, and I was sober, you know, at that point in, say, 2005, I was sober 10 years. So they could kind of have some confidence that it wasn't just somebody in and out. And then I did that for five or six years. I contacted them saying, you know, I'm willing to speak. And they never. They said, you know, we'll contact you if we think. And they never did. And it just really amazed me. It really amazed me, you know?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Wow. So you're. You're in rehab for third or 17 days, and then you get out. What, you just go right back to work?

[Tony Mandarich]

And they say, well, there was no job.

[Luke the Bear]

I mean, like, as far as, like, training again, like, getting in shape and.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Yeah, I did. We had a plan leaving that place. And it was six months of intensive outpatient, so meeting with a counselor, addiction counselor for two days a week for six months, which did help. And then going to 12 step meetings, which I did every day, and then started working out again. And then six months into being sober, you're sleeping back to normal, you're getting rest, you're eating better. You're not tearing your body apart with all these external chemicals. And I was getting up to 295, and I left treatment at 255. I was 295. Yeah, I was 255 with a mullet.

[Luke the Bear]

Listen, this guy had a killer mullet, I'll give him that. 255. Wow.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And, you know, I mean, even though I was 17 days sober, it's like you could just tell I was, like, sick. Yeah. Just sick from all the addiction. But six months later, I was like. I was like, within 10% of my strongest ever.

[Luke the Bear]

Really?

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And no steroids, no nothing.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

And I was like, I can't believe I'm, like, this strong only at six months. And. And that's when the first thought came to me that I might still be able to play football. And then when the football season started, I was watching some games in my living room, and. And. And I was thinking, I'm right now. I'm watching that tackle, and I can tell you I'm better than that guy.

[Luke the Bear]

This is 95.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, yeah. Fall of 95. Yeah. And I thought to myself, I was like, I'm better than that guy if I have some preparation to get ready. And so that gave me kind of, like, hope. And I called my agent, and I said, I'd like to make a comeback now. My agent set up the Miami, San Diego, and Cleveland workouts. He's like, are you sure? Because he hadn't seen me. He was living in Cleveland. And I said, yeah. He's like, I'd like to see you before I call. So I drove down to Cleveland and met with him and known him for decades. And he was like, this is the Michigan State Tony that I remember. Right. So. And I told him the whole story, you know, the whole addiction thing. And he's like, okay. And so he hadn't heard you from

[Luke the Bear]

you from three years, basically?

[Tony Mandarich]

No, not a word. And so, yeah, so then the word got out. I worked out for Philly, and then. And then Indianapolis heard the workout was good, and then I flew down to Indy and worked out with them and they ended up signing me that year.

[Luke the Bear]

95.

[Tony Mandarich]

It was February of 96.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, okay. So you. The next season. In between the next season. Wow.

[Tony Mandarich]

They had just lost the AFC championship game at Pittsburgh.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay.

[Tony Mandarich]

With Harbaugh when he threw that long bomb and the receiver dropped in the end zone, that they had just lost that game. And I signed with them like two weeks later.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow. So then you got the block for captain comeback.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, for two years. And for Marshall folk when he was a rookie. No, he was already third and fourth year there.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay. Wow.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Because I think he got there in 94.

[Luke the Bear]

Okay. I didn't realize that you watched him.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow. Who came in after Harbaugh?

[Tony Mandarich]

Peyton Manning.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, that's right. I knew that you got him as rookie here.

[Tony Mandarich]

That's right. I mean, he did okay.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah,

[Tony Mandarich]

I mean, Harbaugh did okay, too. He's coaching all over the place.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

They do national championships and.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know all that stuff. He did all right.

[Luke the Bear]

Dude, was. I sent you that clip right? About the. Him being the. The head coach with the most rushing yards.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. More rushing yards than Bo Jackson.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, that's what it was. And his brother didn't even know.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right, right. From. Yeah, from the Raven.

[Luke the Bear]

That was a funny video.

[Tony Mandarich]

That was funny. How about.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, no, I don't want to get too off track. What are the Ravens doing?

[Tony Mandarich]

Sorry, I don't have no idea.

[Luke the Bear]

Anyways, bad move, Baltimore. Well, anyways, sorry, I don't want to distract you. So. So you end up playing four more years.

[Tony Mandarich]

Three.

[Luke the Bear]

Three years. Three.

[Tony Mandarich]

With Indy. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

And then you blew out your shoulder.

[Tony Mandarich]

Shoulder, Yep. Couldn't like even get a glass out of the cupboard because it was so worn out. Like there was nothing to fix anymore in my shoulder. It was like the bone had grinded against the other bone so much that it started to deteriorate. Deteriorate. And so there was nothing to fix. They were like, you could probably play one more year and you're probably going to have to be on a controlled painkiller thing that we will handle because they knew everything before I even signed. I told them everything and I contemplated it, slept on it, prayed about it, and then got a crystal clear answer one morning because I'm going to walk away from seven figures. And I thought, this is a no brainer. There's nothing to even think about here. I was like, I'm not going to risk going back to that kind of a lifestyle of addiction. And I didn't know. Like, I didn't know if I would, but I didn't want to chance it, so.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Tony Mandarich]

Which is not worth seven figures.

[Luke the Bear]

Plus, you're looking at maybe losing your right arm.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right. Right. Right. In the meantime. Right. It's falling off, but I can't feel it. You're good to go. Just get back in there.

[Luke the Bear]

How many surgeries did you have on it?

[Tony Mandarich]

I've had two surgeries. The second surgery was to determine what they were gonna have to fix. So there was no intention of retirement. And then the surgery lasted five minutes, and I thought it was gonna last longer. And they said when I came out and cleared up from anesthesia, they said, there's nothing to fix. It's all worn out. It's all gone. And I said, well. And then that's when they gave the kind of option of, you could probably still get out a year, but we'll give you painkillers on a controlled basis because it will hurt. And it did. I couldn't even get a glass out of the Cupbo. And. But, yeah, I was like, there's no way. And they said, within five years of retiring, you're gonna almost guarantee you're gonna need a replacement. Yeah. And I was like, okay, well, how will I know? And they said, you won't be able to. Like, you won't be able to sleep at night because of the pain. And I said, okay. And here we are, you know, 30 years later, still no replacement. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

So you've been able to kind of rebuild it naturally or what?

[Tony Mandarich]

They said what the new doctors have said that I've seen in the last 10 years. They've said you've maintained muscle mass. And they said. And that muscle mass keeps everything compact in your shoulder, so it doesn't give it much room to move around. And plus, I'm not doing things where my shoulder is being really cranked in different ways, you know, And I can. I can push the weightlifting and. But I can feel it, like, when I shouldn't push anymore, and I. And then I stop. Wow. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

So it's just the muscle holding it together.

[Tony Mandarich]

The muscle. Yeah. Like, traps, everything. Just kind of keeping.

[Luke the Bear]

Ligaments and stuff are just Toast.

[Tony Mandarich]

Toast. Yeah. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow. That's how my ankles are.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. I have. Tell your bicep this, too. Yeah, that's another story.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. I told it last week. I was like, I'm just gonna get this out of the way.

[Tony Mandarich]

You're chasing a lion, right? Yeah, Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

I was. Guy was going, I was trying to bench 580. I was trying to beat his record and I buy stuff said, no, I wish, I wish it was that cool. Yeah, I mean I've, I have MRIs on my ankles. Like I tore all my ligaments there. You see them balled up on the side. So it's just muscle.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, yeah, I've, I've rolled it a

[Luke the Bear]

few times where it's just, it pops out and then pops back back in. Is it painful? Oh, yeah. But then I just get up and walk away like nothing ever happened.

[Tony Mandarich]

Part of the, part of the day.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, it's like, oh, just the muscle holding it together. Man, that's crazy. Okay, so well, let's end the segment here then because it's a good place to stop. So when we come back, we'll talk about your recovery and how the gospel comes into play and all that. So we'll go to a quick break here. Gabe, I'm giving you more heads up this time. You hear from amtech Blades and Bill Rapier. Check this blade out. See on the other side. This video is brought to you by amtech Blades. We are very excited to be partnering with amtech. Bill Rapier, long time Navy seal, Dev crew operator, amazing brother and friend. Looking for a battle ax to carry on your person to chop some wood. They've got you covered. Looking for a blade to carry on you every day. Also got you covered. Look at this. I gotta check my mail. What do we got going on here? Oh, look how sharp that is. What is this? Oh, 5% off. You can go to amtechblades.com, put apology in the coupon code, get 5% off your order and he will match that and give 5% to end abortion now again, amtechblades.com we're grateful for them. Check them out. Welcome back everybody. Thank you again for stick around for this. We'll go to this last segment here. So, so I, you know, I've got, like I said, I've known Tony for about five years now. We've met a lot and he was, been super involved with AA and 12 steps and all that. And we started meeting just about, you know, the gospel and how ultimately it's Christ that has transformed his heart. Let's just bring us into that conversation. Just approaching the addiction side and how the gospel has impacted you.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, so I've always been a believer. Born and raised Catholic, always been a believer. Even in my darkest times, I never blamed God. I was always a believer. And I went to 12 step for 25 years and in 2020, when the world was going Sideways, not just with the thing in the air, but with other social things. And I was like, you know, I'd watch the TV and I'd cock my head, and I'd be like, what? Like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, the dealership's not burning. It's a peaceful this or that. And it's like, the dealership's burning, right? And I'm like, okay, either I'm really losing it upstairs or something. So for me to go back to fundamentals, which is what I like to do in football, if we got our butts kicked the week before, we'd go back to blocking and tackling the next week, pros would. So how do you go back to fundamentals when you don't play football anymore? Well, you go back to the absolute truth, which for me, I always knew was the Gospels. That is the absolute truth. So I went back to them and started reading them. Met with a friend of mine who turned me on to apologia and you and Jeff. And then I started having a lot of questions because I was not just reading. I was actually trying to figure out interpretation and stuff. And I didn't need to be a theologian, but I wanted a lot more understanding. And that's when we started meeting and we started talking about all these things. And it really gave me a much different perspective of the world and myself. I mean, it was as impactful as March 23, 1995, was the day I got sober. This was more impactful. And my whole life changed in 95. Like, for the better. Yeah, this in 20. End of 2020, beginning of 2021, was even more impactful. I started to see the world in a different set of lenses. You know, it's. It's. It's. You know, they talk about a fallen world, and it's like, yeah, you could see it. You could see it. Once you start reading the gospel and you're like, yeah, it's everywhere. It's like everywhere. And. And I got so enthusiastic about it. I think I may have gotten a little bit too enthusiastic sometimes.

[Luke the Bear]

That's called the stage cage.

[Tony Mandarich]

I would even catch myself and be like, you just need to tone Cage.

[Luke the Bear]

Stage. I said it backwards. I said stage. Cage. Cage. Stage. Sorry.

[Tony Mandarich]

But it was. But, you know, I come in here and meet with you quite a bit, actually, over those couple years.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, it was good.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, it was. It was incredible. And it gave me such great perspective. And one of the things I loved the most was I would ask a question, and you'd be like, let's go see what the gospels say about it instead of, here's my opinion. Right. But you would give the gospel reference and then give an interpretation of it, and then if I had any questions, you could help me try to understand. So that was incredible. And then, you know, that's when I stopped going to 12 step, because, you know, like, 12 step does help a lot of people. It helped me for 25 years. But the God of your understanding part was kind of like something that I was like, yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

It didn't never sat right with you.

[Tony Mandarich]

It never sat right with me because I was always a believer. Right. And so it was. It was. And we talked about it and. And. And, you know, like, the last five years of, you know, of not going. I'm not. I mean, I'm gonna say probably the better five years of my sobriety of the 30 years. Almost 31 years. And. Yeah. And. And I. And I think it's a direct result of getting my nose into the Gospels.

[Luke the Bear]

I mean, I remember I. I know some of my. You were like, just whatever I throw at you, you're just, like, devouring it. And I read you just, what about this? What about this?

[Tony Mandarich]

About this?

[Luke the Bear]

I think my favorite question for you was of all time was, can I still listen to Guns N Roses?

[Tony Mandarich]

It was. I mean, seriously. And I was like, yes.

[Luke the Bear]

I just saw them in concert.

[Tony Mandarich]

Go for it, you know, because you. You know, you go to the old source of YouTube, right?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

And then there's the people that are extreme. They're like, you can't listen to modern music. And it's like, hey, I don't know, at that point. Right. And you try to stay on the narrowest path and do what you can for your own life. Not that any of that's gonna give you salvation, but it's gonna give you a better quality of life.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know.

[Luke the Bear]

So was it about a year ago we baptized you?

[Tony Mandarich]

Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Or has it been longer than. Is it almost two years?

[Tony Mandarich]

Man, you know what? It was in May of two years ago. Almost two years. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Time is fine. Yeah, I think. I think all the water came out.

[Tony Mandarich]

The displacement of water, it was gone. It was the last one.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. We made sure Tony went last. So there's the water left.

[Tony Mandarich]

Thanks.

[Luke the Bear]

I told. I think I told you because, you know, Perry Anderson. Perry. Perry played NHL for a long time, and we. We baptized him in a hot tub at someone's swimming pool and almost knocked him out because it was me and another guy, we went, dunked him back, and he just about cracked his head on.

[Tony Mandarich]

Oh my gosh.

[Luke the Bear]

You know, and it was. It was tight. We made it.

[Tony Mandarich]

Well, you and. You and Jeff baptized me. I was like, I wasn't expecting the force that you guys were going to use. I thought you guys were going to like dip me in the water. You guys were like, slam. I was like. I was like, is that what they mean by the hand of God?

[Luke the Bear]

I think more accurately what happened was we probably almost dropped you. And so it was just, just. It was just the force. Like, oh, man. Oh, man. That's cool. Yeah. So. So, yeah, I mean, I've just enjoyed our conversations and I mean, for those of you that are coming into this conversation that maybe haven't don't know the history of apologia, that haven't seen any of our stuff on addictions, like, we planted our church out of a rehab early on. It was, you know, most of our church was brand new baby believers out of addiction, saved out of the rehab. And you know, so that's always been a big. For a long time it was. Addiction Ministry was a huge part of our church because so many people needed it and just revolved around the gospel. Gospel. And so our stance has always been that addiction is ultimately. Yes, there's a chemical dependency, but ultimately it's. It's a worship problem. And you know, ultimately to bring you out of. Out of addiction, it's. It's the gospel you need. You need Christ. And the cool thing about. About Tony is he recognized it, but just didn't know how to identify that or apply it. Or apply it. Yeah, like he recognized, but it was just like. But I don't, you know, understand how to apply it like you said. And, and so it's been. The conversations we've had is cool. And you know, I mean, I know you haven't really gone to any AA stuff and all, but I mean, for those that are truly regenerate, it's a great mission field.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

You know, and I know you've had your opportunities, obviously, and you still.

[Tony Mandarich]

And I still go to. I mean, I go with the motivation of discipling somebody who's struggling with a higher power.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

To kind of just be like, look, I. I'm commanded to do this, like to let them, you know, to let him know. I would be. I would be hoarding it if I didn't let him know. And. And that's not how it works.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Totally lost my train of thought. Sorry. So, I mean, you've done. I mean, you've done a Lot of speaking gigs for, for a. Right.

[Tony Mandarich]

Oh yeah. Over the 25 years. Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Just not for the NFL.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, right. Like the. Or rookie orientations. Right. Which are the ones that need to know it the most. And I remember the one year and not to say a name, but I will. Like they said, you know, they, they instead chose Pac Man Jones, you know, who did have trouble and then cleaned up, like got his act together for about a year and then went and had trouble again after his talks. So it's like, you know, somebody that's early in it, it's like you gotta kind of be like, hey, look like, let's wait a few years till we make sure that this guy's gonna stick with, with staying on the narrow path.

[Luke the Bear]

But why do you think? Is it because your name just wasn't fresh or do you think it's the steroids aspect that they don't want exactly

[Tony Mandarich]

be one of the reasons you want me to talk.

[Luke the Bear]

I would think so.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right, so. And the name was Fresh because I just retired in 98, so in the 2000s you're only talking five years later. So the name was still fresh, even though the rookies might not remember the whole SI stuff. But if you throw it up on a screen and say, look, you know, they know what Sports Illustrated is. And this is. I was all this and all that, but I really wasn't any of it. You know, it was, it was all a facade and this is where it brought me down. And these are the mistakes I made along the way in the NFL. And don't do these things, guys, or just be warned, if you do these things, your chances of falling are going to be a lot greater.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, but who knows? Sorry, I saw a comment there. I mean, back to our view of addiction, I just want to address. Yeah, I mean that's why I read the verse in the beginning. Little children stay away from idols. And I think it was Calvin that said that we're idle factories, essentially, we're never idle. Making idols in our hearts, manufacturing idols in our hearts. And so ultimately anything that, that, that takes you away from Christ, from, from him, you know, being on the mantle of your heart and who you worship isn't is an idol. And so yeah, that's how we view addictions is once you get past the chemical dependency because you. There's been times, plenty of times where like someone needed to hear the gospel and it's like I can't even get through to you until you are clear headed, clearheaded, you know, and so you got to get that out of the. Someone's system. And then it's. It's all. All gospel and, and worship and idolatry. That's the conversations we're having. I mean, I've seen countless times of people that had gone through a, you know, five, six, seven times and just kept falling back into addiction. It wasn't until they turned to Christ, realize what it is, and that they actually defeated their addiction. And praise the Lord again that it only took you 17 days. Because that actually is another miracle. Because that never happens, right? Right, yeah, that never happens. I mean, a lot of times, like I said, people, I mean, you know, I'm sure all kinds of people that have gone through it a gazillion times.

[Tony Mandarich]

You know, a real quick story behind that is when I was 11 and we talked about earlier, I was like, why not me be the guy that gets drafted in the NFL as a, you know, 11 year old? That's my goal. And it happened. So then, you know, 10 years later, after I'm in the program or in the treatment center, I'm in the back row of this, like, conference room and there's probably 30 of us in there, and the counselor speaking is talking about, everybody stand up. And then she says, okay, these six people sit down. You guys won't be sober more than six months. Just kind of given statistics. And then I was in the middle of the room, so I sat down. And then they had one person standing and they said that one person will represent somebody staying sober the rest of their life out of all these people in this room. Wow. And the first thing that came to mind for me was, why not me be that guy? And because as long as I follow the program, right. I couldn't put these things into play and execute it. I knew the whole time it was God that got me sober and God that kept me sober, but these were the tools. And then here we are almost 31 years later.

[Luke the Bear]

I'm so glad you brought that point up because I wanted to mention this. So we kind of teased it earlier by talking about identity, and that's one of our biggest beefs with AA and all those groups is your identity ultimately is always in your addiction.

[Tony Mandarich]

Alcoholic, right?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Like, how many times have you stood in front of a group and said,

[Tony Mandarich]

you know, many, but not in the last five years?

[Luke the Bear]

Yes. And so it's. So it's. You come in with a defeatist mentality already. That's why I like what you just said. You're like, well, I don't want. Why do I have to be that guy, you know. And so you know, we would always start off our addiction meetings like, well I'm, I'm Luke. I'm a follower of Christ. I'm a, I'm redeemed. I'm a child, you know, like, because that ultimately is your identity. And so like just shifting your mindset to like having a proper identity of who you are in Christ and you're no longer identified by that pass in by that addiction. You've defeated that. And but if you keep identifying it, you're just gonna keep falling back into it.

[Tony Mandarich]

I think you're boxing yourself in.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Tony Mandarich]

And but even with football it's like, yeah, I did that, but that's not me. Like I'm not a football player anymore. I'm almost a 60 year old guy that is grateful to be alive. I'm just a guy.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Ye so well out to in the show here then. I know you're kind of been working hard building a little bit of presence on social media and I've been enjoying watching a lot of your stuff. And this is what I love about Tony is like every single time he does a video, even when he's the video of him lifting weights, like he's always pointing people to Christ. There's always scripture involved and it's been really encouraging and cool to see. So just tell us what do you, what are you up to these days? What are you working on?

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah, just, you know, got some, some jobs that I have that are not glamorous but they bring a revenue in. But doing a lot of one on one coaching for sobriety coaching. But then sometimes people don't have a chemical addiction, they just want some life coaching.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Tony Mandarich]

Very similar principles. You just use different language.

[Luke the Bear]

So.

[Tony Mandarich]

TonyManders.tonymanagecoaching.com is where all that information is. And I just launched that in January and it's going extremely well.

[Luke the Bear]

Good.

[Tony Mandarich]

And then getting a lot more public speaking gigs and you know, whether it's most of it's about telling my story and you know, I'll tie in my faith wherever is appropriate to tie it in in the story. And, and then doing a lot of content creation with the motivation of hey look, this is what I do today, this is who I am, this is what I do. No fluff, full transparency. And it so far it's going really well.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. And so you do a lot of like live videos on TikTok.

[Tony Mandarich]

I go on, I go, I live stream on TikTok just about every night from 8pm and I've been doing that since June 1st of last year. And we have a core group of people there, like, probably 20 people that come every night. And they're just fantastic people. Some of the, like, best people you've never met in person. Yeah. But we also bring in, obviously, newcomers every night, and we talk about sobriety, faith, football. This week, we'll talk about combine. Sometimes we'll do trivia stuff that's, you know, just fun. It's all for engagement and just kind of like a pretty relaxed thing. Plus, you get a lot of comments in the live stream where people will be like, you know, the same era, same everything. And they're like, I can't believe I'm talking to this guy. I have a question. He's actually answering it. Right. So for me, it's like, I'm just a guy. Like, I'm just the guy. Live streaming. But I have to put myself in their shoes. All they knew about me was, yes, I. The fall. Some of them know about the comeback, and then they saw the documentary on ESPN maybe in 2019. Yeah. And that's all they know. So when they get to actually talk, I could see that. I mean, it's a cool experience for me because, you know, somebody that's 40, 50 years old is excited to talk to somebody, you know, that was one of their heroes in. As they were growing up. Say, in football, you ever get any

[Luke the Bear]

angry Green Bay fans?

[Tony Mandarich]

Oh, my gosh, yes. We call them. We call them demons. We call them demons, and we try to have as much grace as we can for them. We do.

[Luke the Bear]

So are they just, like, leaving comments and.

[Tony Mandarich]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

In the comment section.

[Tony Mandarich]

And it'll. And I have moderators. Oh, regulars that are moderators. And it's like, sometimes, like, you'll get ones that'll be like, hey, how good are the steroids? Right? And I'll be like, okay, don't. You know. They know. Don't block him yet, because I'll answer his question. I'll be like, well, in the 80s, they were pretty good. And the guy's probably shocked that I answered the question, because he's, like, thinking, I'm gonna, like, repel from that.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. So.

[Tony Mandarich]

And they worked. Yeah. And then. And they still work. Right. As far as, like, these days. But the. We've. We've brought a lot of regulars from stuff like that. Like, people that are loyal now that come back. That started out, like, as far as trying to insult. The ones you can't help are the ones that just put a sentence of, you know, just vomit out there. Right. It's like you're a. This, this and this. And it's like there's no negotiating with this person. Right.

[Luke the Bear]

They're probably wearing an Aaron Rodgers jersey.

[Tony Mandarich]

Well, ye. We say that, you know, they're living in. In. I won't even say it. We try to have as much grace as possible, and sometimes it's graceful just to what we call send them an Uber. Just block them.

[Luke the Bear]

It's real easy. We say that all the time.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right, Right.

[Luke the Bear]

It's real easy to block.

[Tony Mandarich]

Right.

[Luke the Bear]

Just one little click. Nothing difficult. Yeah. We get some of those every once in a while.

[Tony Mandarich]

I can imagine. We got some beauties.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, I'm sure. Well, cool, man. Oh, I did. I meant to mention the 30 for 30. So that was an excellent doc where you just were very raw and honest and didn't hide anything. And I think that's. I mean, I think people respect that

[Tony Mandarich]

and they appreciate you.

[Luke the Bear]

Appreciate that. Yeah. Because I think a lot of those, you know, you can kind of see through when people are just. When they're deflecting themselves. Yeah, yeah. Deflecting yours. Yeah. But there was. You didn't shy away from anything, which I appreciate.

[Tony Mandarich]

Yeah. And the whole point is to let them know what happened and be transparent. And a lot of that stuff is not stuff you want to brag about. It's shameful. But it may help somebody to straighten out. And if it's. I did it and I'm going to share it. And if it helps somebody, say, hey, I'm kind of in that same position. And he ended up getting it, so why can't I. Yeah, absolutely.

[Luke the Bear]

Awesome, man. Well, I'm glad you got to come in today.

[Tony Mandarich]

Come on. Thanks to me here.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. I was hoping to do this for a little bit.

[Tony Mandarich]

Only took five years.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes. Can you stick around for like a 15 minute after show? Okay, so we'll actually come back. We're gonna completely shift gears for the after show and talk about some of Trump's union address. Save the union address. Because that was fun. So I didn't even see all that. We just saw a couple clips and I was just talking about. It'd be fun. So thank you, everyone. That's. That's an all accessor. You subscribe, you keep the lights on. We're grateful for you. And again, thank you for everyone that. That helps with an abortion now and is helping us to end the sacrifice of our preborn neighbors. I want to just quickly point to shop apologiestudios where you can get some tracks, some coffee. I actually just put up a really cool St. Patrick's shirt. Let me find that real quick. I'm really excited about this. I ordered it. I just ordered it. It hasn't come in yet, but. But you can get other stuff there. You can get the not this hat. You can get my shirt that I'm wearing. Of course we mentioned amtac and I wanted to also mention Dominion wealth you saw at the beginning Reform Money. Check them out. They're amazing dudes. You can sign up for a free consultation. They're great dudes. And sorry I can't type and talk at the same time. And of course I want to mention sorry. Heritage Defense. You can go to heritagedefense.org and put apology in the coupon code to get your first month free. We love those guys. If you homeschool your family or your children, please, please sign up with them. It's super, super affordable. And if anybody, any three layer agency ever comes to your door, you can just call up the 1-800 number or the on call number and give the phone to them and you don't have to talk to anybody. So here. Gabe, can you pull us, everybody, quick. I'm so excited about this shirt. It says banishing snakes and defending the Trinity since 450 A.D. that's awesome. Anyways, oh, there's my timer. How about that? All right, that's a good place to stop. Well, thank you again everyone again. If you are an all accessor, please stick around. Give us about five minutes, we'll come around and and continue the show from there. So we're grateful for all of you. You Tony, thanks again.

[Tony Mandarich]

Thank you.

[Luke the Bear]

Where can people one more time find you?

[Tony Mandarich]

TonyManderichCoaching.com There you go.

[Luke the Bear]

And we'll be back next week. Peace out everybody.