581. Steven Anderson's Son Details Abuse Claims

Summary

APOLOGIA RADIO — Episode 581 Summary
“Steven Anderson's Son Details Abuse Claims” (August 7, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged and culturally relevant episode of Apologia Radio, host Jeff Durbin sits down for an in-depth, uncensored interview with Isaac Anderson, son of controversial pastor Steven Anderson. The episode centers on Isaac's eyewitness testimony—now publicly corroborated by his three oldest siblings—regarding a longstanding pattern of alleged physical, emotional, and spousal abuse in the Anderson household. The conversation offers Isaac's perspective on both the events themselves and the public reactions, Church dynamics, and the burdens and motivations behind making such allegations public. The interview also addresses responses from Steven Anderson, his supporters, and the broader New IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) community.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Initial Public Allegations & Testimony

• Multiple Witnesses: All four adult children of Steven Anderson—Isaac, Miriam, John, and Solomon—have publicly and consistently accused their father of systemic abuse, affirming each other’s accounts. (03:24, 07:47)
  • “All have come out publicly to 100 of his adult children…there are no adults who…lived in his house who will stick up for him.” — Isaac Anderson (04:32)
• History of Attempts at Resolution: Isaac describes how attempts at internal church mediation or intervention failed, with church leadership and close supporters refusing to address the claims or even listen. (06:13)
  • “No one’s willing to listen…they just don’t care…all of his core members, they do not care.” — Isaac (06:51)
• Failure of Reconciliation: Isaac claims his parents have made no effort to reach out for reconciliation in years. (15:15)
• Justification for Going Public: Isaac stresses that the only avenue for justice and protection for remaining siblings is to bring the allegations into the public square, especially as their private appeals failed repeatedly. (08:08, 58:50)

2. Specific Claims of Abuse and Disqualification

• Domestic and Child Abuse: Detailed recurring accounts of fights between parents, escalation to physical violence, and use of implements (belts, electrical cords) for punishment.
  • “He would throw plates, glasses, not at her but past her into the wall for dramatic effect...grab her, slam her into a wall, slap her, beat her with the belt or extension cord.” — Isaac (19:23)
  • “You saw this?” — Host; “Yes, numerous times…” — Isaac (20:08)
• Witnesses to Abuse: Accounts corroborated by other siblings; Isaac also notes that more of his now-minor siblings will likely do the same once independent. (26:33)
• Spouse and Sibling Abuse Specifics: Examples include head injuries to Solomon and the use of an electrical cord on children as young as six. (27:00, 48:16)
  • “He just attacked him, slammed his head, and he split his head open… It was a big bloody mess.” — Isaac, about Solomon’s injury (28:17)
  • “...beat her with the belt or the extension cord... we’d seen the marks on her as well...” — Isaac, regarding his mother. (53:45)
• Pattern, Not Isolated Incidents: Isaac clarifies these are not isolated incidents or overzealous spankings but a “continuous thing”—an ongoing environment of fear and volatility. (30:12, 32:04)
  • “It was more likely than not that somebody was getting mistreated or freaked out on any given day.” — Isaac (30:32)
  • “It wasn’t like my parents were oblivious... because they know to not act like that around other people.” (32:04)

3. Steven Anderson’s & Supporters’ Responses

• Direct Denials, Shifting Accounts: While Pastor Anderson sometimes claims the children are lying or exaggerating, Isaac notes that his father has failed to actually deny specific allegations and often pivots self-justifyingly: “Even if [what I’m being accused of] was all true, nothing—I’m still totally qualified.” (07:19, 100:56)
• Enabling & Deflection: Isaac describes close associates and church employees (e.g. Chris Segura) steadfastly defending Pastor Anderson regardless of evidence, sometimes dismissing abuse as “spousal discipline” or deferrable to personal preference. (06:13, 22:12)
  • “It’s just a matter of preference… like Indian food.” — Attributed to Jonathan Shelley (22:12)
• Vilification of the Children: Anderson has publicly disowned his children, greenlighting church members and associates even to pray for harm upon Isaac. (15:07, 09:41)
  • “I never want to see them again, man.” — Steven Anderson in recent sermon (15:08)

4. Obstacles to Justice & Church Process

• Church Leadership Refusal: All efforts to address the abuse through proper church procedure were stonewalled, with church elders refusing to consider the claims, sometimes explicitly not wanting to know. (06:13)
  • “They just said, well, we don’t want to know about that if that’s true… rather just not know.” — Isaac (06:19)
• CPS & Legal System: CPS reportedly visited the Anderson home over 50 times but, according to Isaac, never interviewed any of the children; he attributes this to both parental legal savvy and the high threshold for government intervention. (36:51, 94:56)
  • “My parents know their rights. They told them to get off their porch… I’ve never seen them make it past the front door.” (36:51)

5. Broader Context and Motivations

• Public Figure Responsibility: Isaac makes clear the decision to go public was due in part to his father’s status as a public spiritual leader and to protect younger siblings. (63:11)
  • “If he didn’t have a public following or church…why would you get online…[but] how do you reach his public following?” (63:11)
• Christian Worldview Integrity: Both host and guest emphasize a desire for justice, not vengeance—a biblically ordered process, equal scales, and no personal glee in the process.
  • “I want justice for both the person making the allegation and the accused… Scripture commands you to hear both sides.” — Host (05:12)
  • “I want my dad to stop treating their kids at home like crap…He needs to step down and get his crap together… I don’t care about his apology, just stop doing it.” — Isaac (80:12)
• No Personal Gain: Isaac refutes accusations of acting for attention, apostasy, or profit. He describes his steady, productive life, adherence to Christian faith, and verifies he is not anti-spanking or a “degenerate” as some critics suggest. (10:49, 11:21)

6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the church and bystanders:
  • “They simultaneously think we’re obviously lying, but also, who cares if it’s true?” — Isaac (06:51)
• On the gravity of evidence:
  • “If there was video proof, they wouldn’t care because they think it’s fine anyway.” — Isaac (06:51)
• On CPS and government intervention:
  • “It is really hard for CPS to take your kids... just because you did it does not mean you’re going to be found guilty or whatever.” — Isaac (36:51)
• On pattern of violence and inconsistency:
  • “The same crime would get you…wildly different punishments depending on the day…They knew to not act like that around other people.” (32:04)
• On the ‘spousal discipline’ defense:
  • “Shelley literally compared it being just like…a food preference.” (22:12)
• On the church’s refusal to arbitrate:
  • “But they never wanted to hear about that right there…There was no, well, we’ll settle this dispute as a church, then.” (08:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:15–07:49] – Isaac explains the history of abuse allegations and failed attempts at mediation.
• [07:47–08:14] – Clarifying the biblical standard for witnesses in accusations.
• [19:23–24:10] – Detailed descriptions of domestic and child abuse.
• [27:00–30:32] – Accounts of Solomon’s injury and broader pattern of violence.
• [32:04–34:28] – Secretive nature of the discipline; inconsistency of punishment; spanking vs. beating.
• [48:16–54:03] – Specifics about the electrical cord punishments and their effects.
• [63:11–64:05] – Isaac discusses the core motivations for going public; plea for siblings’ safety.
• [80:12] – Isaac articulates his desired outcome: protecting siblings, having father step down, not seeking vindication or apology.
• [100:56] – Isaac highlights the lack of direct denial from Steven Anderson regarding specific accusations.

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Concluding Insights

• Both Jeff Durbin and Isaac stress the importance of impartiality and hearing both sides, urging listeners not to take any party’s word at face value but to prayerfully and judiciously consider the substantial, consistent testimony now publicly available.
• There is clear consensus between the witnesses that the pattern and severity of violence and dysfunction meet the biblical standard for disqualification from pastoral ministry.
• The Anderson parents have not directly denied specific allegations, but rather generalized, deflected, or justified the behaviors as either exaggerated or biblically permissible.
• Isaac closes with a call for prayer for the remaining siblings and reiterates his openness to speak with anyone—regardless of agreement—who genuinely wants to seek understanding.

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Key Quotes with Timestamps

• “There are no adults…who will stick up for him.” — Isaac Anderson [04:32]
• “People should be listening to both sides. People should not just be believing something because it’s compelling.” — Host [17:04]
• “He has to move the goalpost…He just doesn’t follow any of that himself, which is saying they know what they did was too far and wrong.” — Isaac [50:50]
• “I want, first and foremost, my dad to stop treating their kids at home like crap. Then he needs to step down and get his crap together.” — Isaac [80:12]
• “I can respect somebody who just goes, ‘Dude, I don’t know, but I don’t care.’” — Isaac [68:59]
• “If any of my dad’s fans are even…watching this, isn’t it funny how he has not denied any…specific allegations I’ve made against him?” — Isaac [100:56]

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Final Takeaway

This episode provides a comprehensive opportunity to hear Isaac Anderson’s detailed, first-hand allegations of abuse at the hands of Pastor Steven Anderson—and, by extension, the corroboration of the other former Anderson children. The conversation encourages a thoughtful, biblically informed response from the Christian community and highlights the tragedy, complexity, and necessity of transparency and justice both within and outside the body of Christ.

Transcript

[Isaac Anderson]

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[Interviewer]

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[Isaac Anderson]

I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy?

[Interviewer]

Or are you gonna bite?

[Isaac Anderson]

Can I let you guess? That's delusional.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, delusional is okay. In your worldview, I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being so. You calling me delusional Using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

[Isaac Anderson]

She hung up on me.

[Interviewer]

What? What?

[Isaac Anderson]

Desperate times call for faithful men and

[Interviewer]

not for careful men.

[Isaac Anderson]

The careful men come later and write

[Interviewer]

the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

[Isaac Anderson]

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[Interviewer]

Right?

[Isaac Anderson]

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[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Disciples.

[Interviewer]

I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, Pastor.

[Isaac Anderson]

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[Interviewer]

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. This is the gospel heard around the world. You get more at apologiastudios.com sign up for all access. Do all the things be a part of this ministry as we bring the Gospel around the world. Very important show today. Something I've prayed about, thought about for a long period of time. And I was able to reach out to Isaac Anderson and have a conversation about coming in to talk. I'm going to go ahead and bring everyone into the situation. If you, if you're not aware, most people are probably aware that watch this program. It was probably about what, a year and a half ago or has it been two years by now that all this sort of. You, you did the first interview, that first interview.

[Isaac Anderson]

The first interview I did was in January of 2024.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So two. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And then it really blew up though, in July of 2024.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because that's when Miriam ran away and then John made a video. I forget if John made a video right before or right after Miriam. Yeah, it was like. Right. It was like within a month though.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

So like July of 24. So about exactly two years ago is when it really blew up.

[Interviewer]

There you go.

[Isaac Anderson]

So I'd even been telling people about my dad even before my first interview. I told plenty of people at his church and other people about what he

[Interviewer]

was doing of what was going on.

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh yeah, I've been saying this for years.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay. Surprise, surprises. A lot of people like to know that this has been something.

[Isaac Anderson]

I've said this too. I've told. Because they were saying, oh, you just did this because you got paid. Or like I've told them, go ask Chris. I bumped into him randomly at a jiu jitsu tournament in 2022. And him and I talked for like an hour and a half. He's like, oh, brother, I haven't seen you at church. What's going on? I literally tell him everything. And he didn't dispute any of it. He didn't think was lying. And he's just like, yeah, well. And then he just told me a whole story about how his dad was a criminal and a drug addict who beat his mom. And his dad's dead. He's basically. His dad was worse than mine, which that's unfortunate. I don't think my dad's the worst.

[Interviewer]

And your dad, your dad, Stephen Anderson, well known preacher, pastor, Faith Award Baptist Church, and you and Miriam and Solomon and John.

[Isaac Anderson]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

All have come out publicly to 100

[Isaac Anderson]

of his adult children.

[Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Isaac Anderson]

There are no adults who, who live. Who have previously lived in his house who will stick up for him. He can't get a single adult. All against people that are currently his victims who will stick up for him. And what's worthless if you'd asked me when I was 16, I would have told you he was perfect and never did anything wrong because that's what you have to do because you live with him.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

And you know, right after I turn 18, suddenly if people ask me, I'm like, oh, no, he's, he beats his wife. He's, he's naturally not a great guy because now, now there's no, like, I'm not gonna put myself in danger, caused trouble for myself because I'm an adult now. So, yeah, he can't get anybody to defend him who lives with him or sorry, who lives with him and then move down.

[Interviewer]

And that's a key, that's a key issue that's probably going to come up a couple times in here. So there's four adult children of Steven Anderson, all saying, all witnessing and testifying together to dramatic examples of abuse both to the children and to his wife. And so all your stories, witness and testimony consistent, you can testify to the same events. You guys are even talking about some, some events maybe one or the other didn't witness. But on the main points, you all are witnesses and testimony that is consistent about abuse of both the children and the wife and you've said is disqualifying. Now here's my point. When this first came out. I want to do justice. I want to do justice for you, for, for the person that's making the allegation, but also justice for the accused. Scripture commands that you have to hear both sides. You have to allow both people to testify. This has been a strange thing, Isaac, because you guys have come out before the public with this. This is not something you've been able to resolve with Christian mediation within the context of the local church.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like talking to his guy, Chris Segura is like his right hand man, at least he was at that time. I don't know if he's, I'm assuming he still is.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And it's like you tell them or my John had tried to talk to Pastor Jimenez, I mean, who didn't even want to hear about it. So it's like we're talking to his friends, his employees, and it's like nobody's willing to listen about it or even care because the. I told him as church members too, one of the families, because they were staying with my wife's parents, my in laws. And I told them about this and they just said, well, we don't want to know about that if that's true. It wasn't about whether I was true as well. We don't Want to know if that's true? Yeah, we'd rather just not know about that. It's like, dang, like, so they just. They're basically. They just don't care. Most of his, like, all of his core members, they do not care.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because they're. They simultaneously think we're obviously lying, but also, who cares if it's true? They don't care if it's true. If it's. If they're say. If there was video proof, they wouldn't care because they think it's fine anyway. My dad's already said that everything he has been accused of, everything, Even if none of it was exaggerated, 100 true. He says none of that disqualifies him and it's all fine. We have not so far accused him of any. Because that's his position currently, that nothing we've even accused him of is anything that would be disqualifying.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm sure there's a clip of it. He's. I've seen. No, yeah, he said it before.

[Interviewer]

I've.

[Isaac Anderson]

I've heard, like, hey, even what I'm being accused of, even if it was all true, nothing. I'm still totally qualified.

[Interviewer]

And so your. Your claim and Miriam's claim, John and Solomon, is that your dad has had a pattern of sin and violations of God's law and. And wisdom and biblical standards. That is of the disqualifying nature. So you guys came out publicly with your claims. All of your testimony matches. You're consistent together in terms of. On the scene.

[Isaac Anderson]

I've been saying it, too, for, like, over five years. Right.

[Interviewer]

But in terms of, like, whereas the biblical standard. And you know this. The biblical standard is that two and three witnesses is required before you can receive even an accusation.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, or. And even if forgetting the whole elder thing aside, it's the other thing. Like, even if you have a dispute with a church member, you're supposed to talk to him, and if doesn't work, then you go get your buddy, talk to him, and then if that doesn't work, then it goes to the church.

[Interviewer]

That's the standard. Is that.

[Isaac Anderson]

But they never wanted to hear about that. Right there. There was no, well, we'll settle this dispute as a church, then.

[Interviewer]

That.

[Isaac Anderson]

That part never happened.

[Interviewer]

The standard in scripture is not just for elders. You can't receive unless it's two out of three. That's God's. Like, that's his. His. His judicial standard that you are not

[Isaac Anderson]

under Mosaic law, under.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, God and Jesus appeals. Appeals to it. Paul appeals to It, It's. It's a current in the New Testament, but so that you four come out and that's more than two or three witnesses. The four of you come out and you all have a consistent testimony and witness, and you're all saying the same thing, testifying to the same points, and you're all saying it is of disqualifying nature. You're all saying essentially that this is the way we can come out with this. It's the only way we can address this. There's no church court that can address this. You can't deal with it in. Within his local church, essentially. Now, your dad has come out now since this, and he's had his own response. And so Scripture would say that, you know, one person's story sounds true until another one comes to examine him. At this point now, with your father being who he is and his public ministry and. And you guys coming out with this now, people can hear both sides. They're hearing your testimony, they're hearing John's testimony, Solomon's and Miriam's, and they're hearing your dad's as well. I stayed away from this mostly just praying for you all. My family's been praying for you guys. We've been listening. We've been listening to both sides and just. Honestly just praying God, you know, help this family bring peace to this situation. And now we're at a point where your dad just gave a recent message where he addressed you guys in a. In a. In a way. I think that's. That's definitely at a higher level than he was before. It was more response before and of course, saying bad things about you.

[Isaac Anderson]

But then now he's greenlighted his fans, too. I don't know if you saw. I think it was Sean Conlon, some irrelevant bum, but he was talking about praying from the pulpit that, like, he hopes I die of a drug overdose. It's like, well, I don't do the drugs because it's like, yeah, yeah, maybe somebody like. Like how. I don't even know what he expects to happen. I guess maybe he hopes a homeless person sticks me with a needle or something. But, like, yeah, he's like, praying. He's like, specifically Isaac, and I hope it's a drug overdose. Like, man, that's terrible. I. I guess the. My wife and baby are just gonna.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, and that's the key thing, too. Let's. Let's address that. You are Isaac Anderson.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm 23 years old.

[Interviewer]

Oldest. Oldest son.

[Isaac Anderson]

No, I'm the second.

[Interviewer]

Second oldest.

[Isaac Anderson]

Second second is about a year and a half older.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Second oldest to.

[Isaac Anderson]

But he's married as well, so.

[Interviewer]

Yes. And so you are married. You've been married for three years?

[Isaac Anderson]

A little over three years.

[Interviewer]

Yes, over three years. You got a super handsome dude.

[Isaac Anderson]

He's. He'll be two this month.

[Interviewer]

Two years old. And you have a great career. You work a great.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm a commercial plumber. I've been a commercial plumbing technician for over seven years now.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I own a house.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like, my. Like, I don't. Like, they're act. Like, the way they talk about me, you think I'm like, some have like, complete degenerate or something. Like, no, like, I'm doing everything that you. That otherwise would be a good thing. Like.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like, if. If not for the stuff I said about my dad, they would. They would undoubtedly use me as an example of like, oh, see, it's like looks because. And they did that with John and stuff too. They were. Because my brother John's an emt. They were always. My mom would always brag to the people, oh, my son's an emt. And like, because, you know, it's.

[Interviewer]

It's.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's a respectable job.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it is.

[Isaac Anderson]

And like, obviously I'm. Solomon and I are both plumbers, so we're both established in a skilled, respectable trade. And both of us are homeowners. You know, we're both married. It was like. But now they have to. Now I have to be the worst person ever. But they won't really elaborate on exactly what I do.

[Interviewer]

And you believe in Christ, of course.

[Isaac Anderson]

No, I'm a. Still, I remain a devout Christian.

[Interviewer]

I want everyone to hear this. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

I remain a devout Christian, Baptist by denomination. Yeah. I haven't changed on my.

[Interviewer]

God's word is the. God's word is the authority.

[Isaac Anderson]

Of course.

[Interviewer]

Christ is king. Christ is Lord.

[Isaac Anderson]

Of course I have Christ is king in my bio on Instagram.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I saw that. Yes.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, I get a lot. Whenever I'm leaving, like, hate comments somewhere, they're like, you're leaving hate comments with Christ is King? You're like, yeah, dude. Like, yeah, people. People that people get so mad about that of all things.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Today they do for sure. Because they don't like his authority. So you. You trust in Christ? Salvation is only through Jesus. It's. It's apart from any works. Yeah, only through faith and faith alone.

[Isaac Anderson]

I believe in one saved, always saved. Faith alone. Yeah. No, like, works. I mean, it's good to do works,

[Interviewer]

but you don't have your Works aren't going to save you.

[Isaac Anderson]

You should get baptized. Have to. No. So you should.

[Interviewer]

Trusting in Christ is the only way to salvation. Faith in Christ alone, of course. So you're not somebody that's. That's fallen into apostasy. You're denying Christ the lordship of Christ.

[Isaac Anderson]

I also don't drink or smoke. Like I'm. I'm staying out of trouble too. Like I'm not doing any. Still have a clean criminal record because I recently defeated the Arizona state troopers. They allegedly. They. A state trooper saw me this like on June 14th. I was seen using not one, but two cell phones at the same time on the freeway.

[Interviewer]

Oh no.

[Isaac Anderson]

I. I took it to. They were gonna charge me like, find me 400. I went to court though, and I made the guy kind of like look dumb. So I was able to cast enough doubt. I never, like, you know, I've. I'm not gonna say I was found not guilty, so I definitely didn't do it, of course. But I managed to cast enough doubt towards more likely than not. And I got off the hook. And he, the officer was very angry because at the time, you know, normally I'm super cool with the cops and pulled up like a dozen times and usually I'm just super cool with them and I don't like, do the. Why are you pulling me over? I know my rights. Like, no, I'm just chill. Admit to what I did and they let me go. But this guy was like so rude the moment he came up to the window and he was like, license, registration right now. He was such a jerk. I was like, oh, this guy's a jerk. So I obviously just denied. No, I don't know what you're talking about. You must have seen something. Now you're wrong. Two phones. Give me a break, dude. Come on. Like. And then I took it to court and I was able to make it. I think the fact that the two phones made it seem ridiculous. Cuz, like, who's got two? Which I do have two cell phones, but yeah. Yeah, the judge doesn't know that. I didn't deny having two phones, but it just sounds a little.

[Interviewer]

Yes, you're saying a lot, Isaac.

[Isaac Anderson]

Aside from that, I've got a clean criminal.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, it's clean too, right?

[Interviewer]

Okay, but you haven't, you haven't created any victims. There's no property damage, so according to God's law, no crime. And.

[Isaac Anderson]

But yeah, where's the verse that says I can't watch Instagram reels on the freeway? Come on, Dude.

[Interviewer]

Right. So. So no. No egregious violation in God's law there. But. Okay, so now we're at a point where I've. Your dad. Okay. He gave. He did this. And look, you. You saw the. The program I did on it. You saw.

[Isaac Anderson]

I did. I did. That was the first and only video of yours I've seen about it. I don't know if you've done others about him. That was the first. I think somebody, like. I saw it, like, on my Facebook feed, like, the YouTube link. I was like, oh, he's. He talked. What's he got to say?

[Interviewer]

So I just checked it out.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, because I. I hadn't. I. You. I. You didn't reach out to me when any of this stuff first happened.

[Interviewer]

No, I didn't.

[Isaac Anderson]

You reached out to me for the first time, like, this week.

[Interviewer]

This week.

[Isaac Anderson]

Less than a week ago this week.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, I haven't. I haven't wanted to get involved. I've wanted to play out. Now we're at a point where, look, everyone's testimony is out there.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, it's also not blowing over either.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly. Your father's testimony is there. Your testimony is there. It's my position. After seeing something like I saw two weeks ago with your. Your dad doing this and calling it a sermon and vilifying his children and saying what he said.

[Isaac Anderson]

Imagine if a visitor walks in.

[Interviewer]

I know. On a Sunday.

[Isaac Anderson]

That's a, you know, weird thing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. This is a sermon.

[Isaac Anderson]

Do you think he'd make those videos, like, not during. That's like a video, like, released on, like, a Thursday or something, like, just for his church members.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. And that's what I said in the thing. I said, this seems like something you

[Isaac Anderson]

haven't about it either. You talked about it on a separate thing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, no, absolutely not. So it escalated to this. I'll just play this a little bit for the audience so you guys can see. And until they repent, I never want

[Isaac Anderson]

to see them ever again. And people are like, oh, you need to just make things right with your children, Pastor Anderson. You just need to just swallow your pride, be the bigger person. Hell, no.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely not.

[Isaac Anderson]

I never want to see them again, man.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so there's at least a portion that supports.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, about that, too. With him. My dad has. Has never near my mom or dad. I think they both. They. They both have me blocked for, like, two years, and they have never even attempted to reach out, and they really do not want to reach out to me. I think that they are like, They're. They seem interested and they seem to think they can get John and Miriam back on there. They have had no success, but they seem to believe, I guess, me. I think that's why they like really hate me now is because they are. They just haven't even attempted to waste. They know it's a waste of time. It's not going to work. Okay, well, because, I mean, it's. I'm not going to be isolated alone. Like, I'm married. I have my own. I have my own family. So, like, it's not like I'm going to reconcile just because otherwise I'm all alone or something. Yeah. So it's like I have my own family. I'm not a. I'm not in a vulnerable position, or at least what they would perceive to be because I don't think John and Miriam are either. But I guess from their perception, they could get them back on their side easier. They have not even made any attempts to talk to me, which, whatever. I'm not, I'm not. I don't expect them to. I don't care. But yeah, they're not. They're not interested in reconciliation. I mean, he even says that he finally, I think previously he wasn't admitting that. I was saying it because people were saying, oh, your parents want to recognize. I was like, no, they don't. Now he's finally admitted, like, yeah, he never wants to see us again. And he's completely. And he's telling the truth there.

[Interviewer]

So there's probably a lot of people, Isaac, that are watching this right now, and they're like, this is shocking. Isaac Anderson, Stephen Anderson's son. You got the other kids, the older kids, all involved, and they're all making these pretty serious charges about actual dramatic levels of abuse, disqualifying in nature. There are. People probably have no idea what you're talking about. They haven't, they haven't caught up with it. They haven't been listening to the testimony that's been going on over two years now.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, some of your viewers might not be as plugged in.

[Interviewer]

They don't know. I haven't been talking on some of these. I haven't been talking about. I haven't been talking about. I mean, we talked about it this last, that last episode where I sort of brought people into this, you know, like you said, I just recently contacted you to say, hey, would you be willing to talk about it? To give your testimony? I want people to be able to hear both sides. You all's Yalls testimony and Then of course, your father and your mother's testimony, because they are saying it. People should be listening to both sides. People should not just be believing something because it's compelling. Look, the four oldest children of the Andersons are all saying, abuse children, spousal abuse, disqualifying in nature.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, don't forget, part of this coordinated satanic attack against him also involves his brother, his sister, and Pastor Burgess, who he'd known since, like, for almost 20 years prior to this. Pastor Jimenez, who he knows since he was like, since they were like 16 and 18 or something. Like, so supposedly just everybody in his entire life has betrayed him and it's, it's not his fault.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's the point I made, Isaac, on the show. I said exactly that point. I said this compelling to me that it's his four oldest children. All their testimonies are consistent. You've got the people closest to him in ministry and family all saying disqualified. People who know him best are making the claims. This is not random Internet defending him.

[Isaac Anderson]

Live with him.

[Interviewer]

Right, exactly. It's not random Internet people on X making the charges. It's. It's the people closest to him.

[Isaac Anderson]

The random bums on X or Twitter, though. They're the, they're the ones. They'll tell me all about exactly how my dad actually. Have you ever even met him? Yeah, they've never met me or him. And they're going to tell me everything about me and everything about him. Yeah, it's like, dude, you don't even. It'd be one thing, like, if it's somebody who knows him, but the problem is he doesn't have anybody who, like all the people that know him. It's like, oh, wow, you got your church employee to say that you don't lose your temper.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Amazing. You got your, Your, Your own employee is defending you. That's great.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Now none of your. And you can get your children. Oh, well, none of them that live with you will defend you. No one that lives with him, no one that has ever lived with him and then moved out is defending him.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So I want to do this in a way that's as most helpful to you and your family. And what I mean is, you and the three other witnesses that are saying what you're saying in terms of. You guys are saying, we, we were victims of this tree, of this. And I also want people to be able to hear your dad's testimony. He's. He's published tons of stuff on it. He's done videos on it. People can hear his side. This. I have no intention of allowing this to become just like a gossip fest, a slander fest, something like that. I want to hear the actual testimony.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Isaac Anderson]

I want to respond to stuff he says, too. Like, he says, I'll explain why that's.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's not true. Exactly.

[Isaac Anderson]

So maybe some of the stuff he's saying is true.

[Interviewer]

Just summarize the major claims against your father. Give me just a. Just. You don't have to go through.

[Isaac Anderson]

Of course.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but just give me. Give me the points that you're saying.

[Isaac Anderson]

The major stuff that was.

[Interviewer]

This thing happened, and all of us testify to this, and this is disqualifying. What are some of the egregious examples of?

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, basically, just he. He has a horrendous marriage. They're good. They're at each other's throats constantly. They're always fighting. Always fighting. That's how it was my entire life going as long as I can remember. According to my mom, it started, like, two weeks after they got married. He started physically abusing. That's what she says. All the way back then. As long as far back as I can remember. That's how it was. And that's how it was up until I moved out, like, five years ago. So, like, I. To my knowledge, none of that's changed. They have a horrible marriage. They're always fighting. And then when they fight, well, my dad just gets physical. So he'll start. He would throw plates or glasses, not, like, at her, but, like, right past her into the wall for, like, dramatic effects. There's, like, glass thing. Or he'd grab her, slam her into a wall. He'd slap her. Sometimes he'd beat her with the belt or the extension cord. He would.

[Interviewer]

You. You saw this?

[Isaac Anderson]

Yes, yes, Numerous times. So usually the fight would start, and then right when things would start to get violent, we would get sent outside. And then you'd hear crashing, banging and screaming. We would also see them hitting her. Like, we'd see him start slamming around and hitting her. And then I'm like, kids go to that. Go outside. Then we go outside. We can still hear it happening, though.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because I think my dad tries to claim, like, oh, it was just like a. It was like a sex thing. You guys misunderstood. Like, know, I did see, that was

[Interviewer]

a very strange excuse. It's.

[Isaac Anderson]

He's trying to do it because then when people ask him about it, he goes, what? You want to know about my sex, weirdo? And then.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, I saw.

[Isaac Anderson]

Nobody wants to Ask.

[Interviewer]

I'm not going to tell you what goes on in my bedroom as though it was some sort of.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like, that's his implication. Yeah, yeah, that was a new one he came up with. He didn't previously say that when I was calling him.

[Interviewer]

But you're saying that these sorts of things would happen, at least with a certain amount of frequency, where you're like, yeah, it was in the living room. Once we're told to leave.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well. And you could see the entire fight starting, too. Like, it'll be over. It was always over some extremely petty matter as well. Like just the most minor petty thing. And then, like, they. Because my mom is. To be fair, obviously, it's not justified to beat your wife. But, like, my mom was also not, like, being a very good wife either. So she'd be, like, arguing, being quite disrespectful of him. And then, you know, they're both getting angry and prideful, and then it just keeps escalating of that. And then it gets to a point of, well, I'm just gonna. Then he just starts physically assaulting her.

[Interviewer]

Right. It's both of them.

[Isaac Anderson]

Both of them could probably de. Escalate it, but neither one of them does. I don't think it's terrible.

[Interviewer]

I don't think that you're suggesting that Pastor and his wife can't be in a. An argument, a spat, something like that? No, of course you're not saying that that's disqualifying. You're saying that when it gets to the level of actual physical assault and abuse and it was at least irregular enough.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, that's the thing. Even if it wasn't crossing the line into, you know, domestic abuse or violence, it still would probably be disqualifying with how much and how often they were, like, how much and how bad they were fighting. Even if there wasn't physical violence because, like, his house was not in order if he's constantly fighting with her. Because that's the other thing too. Because my dad will say, like, okay, well, it's actually, where's the Bible say you can't, because their new thing is. Well, where does it even say. The Bible's actually pretty quiet. It's not good or bad to hit your wife. You know, maybe you do, maybe you don't. No big deal.

[Interviewer]

Has this really been a. Has this really been an answer coming from his side like.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like, I believe was Jonathan Shelley was saying that, hey, man, I don't. I don't, you know, I don't do spousal discipline. But I also don't eat Indian food. You know what I mean? So he put him on the same category, which is a choice. Then again, though, I guess for me it is a. I. I would never beat my wife. I also don't ever want to food. So it is. In that way, I guess it's a fair compare. Like, I would never. I don't want any part of either. Okay, good, good. But yeah, he made it like, Shelly literally compared it being just like a. Like a food preference.

[Interviewer]

And.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, you don't have to.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So initially, the thing was, it was. I think I expected it, but it was still kind of stunning to me is that when you and Miriam and. And John and Solomon were coming out with your testimonies and videos are being dropped, and then more and more details were coming. You saw the people surrounding your dad, like fellow pastors and other guys sort of just immediately standing up for him. And, and not.

[Isaac Anderson]

That's because my. I'm assuming my dad told them to, because I know that he was screaming and cussing out Pastor Jimenez because Pastor Minutes wouldn't make a video like another one defending him. So I'm assuming if he freaked him, I'm assuming the other pastors either already made a video or they got a call and were told to make a video.

[Interviewer]

When these. Isaac, when these, when these men were doing these videos, maybe you. Maybe you don't have an answer for this. But. But when. When people were doing these videos and just supporting your dad and just dismissing you, were they reaching out to you to listen to your testimony?

[Isaac Anderson]

The only one, the only Pastor Shelley did reach out to me. Him. And I talked, but it wasn't even about, like trying to hear my testimony. I forget why exactly. Talking. Him and I just talking like, it was like. Because John had recorded this call with Shelly. Yeah, my call with Shelly was very similar. Him just saying, yeah, I talked to your dad. And yeah, he did all that. But so what? What? It was basically just the. Yeah, it's true, but so what? And Shelly was just telling me, well, I got lots of guys in my. You know, I've talked to other church who hit their wives as well ago. You tell them to stop. And he said. And he did not tell me.

[Interviewer]

So you're referencing the spousal abuse stuff. Like, what do they refer to as spousal discipline?

[Isaac Anderson]

They call it like spousal discipline, I think, which is like, it's not. That's. I've never heard.

[Interviewer]

I saw you respond to that. You said, no, it's actually Called Felony Felonious.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's, it's. I forget the exact. Yeah, it's, it's domestic abuse. You can't hit somebody for an. I mean, it doesn't fly. The other thing too is my dad knows it's wrong. That's why he doesn't talk about doing it. Like if funny. The Bible, he never talked about. Oh, the Bible's quiet on this. It's a matter of. It was never a matter of preference until he was accused of it. And now suddenly it's a matter of preference.

[Interviewer]

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[Isaac Anderson]

They never knew this outside.

[Interviewer]

Nobody could be able to say, oh, I saw it too. But you do have four witnesses coming out of the home that are all saying, well, there's.

[Isaac Anderson]

There's eight more witnesses still at home.

[Interviewer]

I know, but you're talking about the four that have come out now. You're saying that these four witnesses, the oldest children, can testify and witness to events of actual physical assault and abuse, of course, from your father to your mom.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And. And all of you will testify to that?

[Isaac Anderson]

We all have.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And if any of my other siblings, when they become adults, move out, none of them are going to make videos defending my dad, saying, no, he definitely never beat our mom. That never happened.

[Interviewer]

But then there's also the. The thing is the most shocking to me is to hear, like, the real terrible stories, if you're okay with mentioning, of course, the terrible stories with reference to Solomon. I think it was Solomon.

[Isaac Anderson]

He was the one who got his head.

[Interviewer]

He got his head split open. And then there was the issue with the electrical cord. So.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, that wasn't an individual incident. That was just like a thing. That was just like a year or something.

[Interviewer]

So bring people into those two. Because those two. Those two issues. There's a lot of witness and testimony that will corroborate and talk about those two.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. So the one with Solomon getting his head slammed open. Salman would do this thing. He would go to, like, the church plant in. At the FWBC Tucson or whatever on Sundays, and he was there with Corbin Russell. And he had been seen watching YouTube. He was watching clips the Office on YouTube. So Corbin Russell told my mom, who freaked out, tells my dad. And then Salman came home and was just like, I don't think he didn't know he was gonna be in trouble. Like, I don't think he even. Or maybe I forget if he knew he was gonna be trouble. But he didn't think it was big. If I remember. Like, he didn't even realize. Like, he just walked in and just, you know, my dad then just attacked him, slammed his head, and he split his head open on, like, the side of the concrete window frame. Split his head open. It was a big bloody mess or whatever. It's. Yeah, but my dad claims that I'm recounting that story wrong. That's not how he remembers it. Which originally he forgot at all. He claimed. Originally claimed this never happened. I don't even remember this. And then it's. Well, must have been an accident. Now, currently, he will not recount what his thing is, because I was on Twitter, I was like, okay, which part of the story was I did I lie about? And he goes, I'm not doing this. I'm not telling you. So supposedly he has his own version of that story. Will he be sharing it? No.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

He has. I'm assuming he just claims, oh, I kind of pushed him like that, and then he fell and hit his head.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Did Solomon go to the doctor?

[Isaac Anderson]

No. No. Which, to be fair, I mean, he was bleeding everywhere, but, like. I mean, a doctor would have probably stitched it, but, like, he didn't suffer any brain damage. But it was. I will say my parents at the time did not express any, like, concern. Obviously, there's blood or, you know, they didn't seem particularly concerned about that. They were busy talking about how. Because this was when Salman was. I remember this because they were talking, like, in five months, you turning. You're getting kicked out. As they were going to kick him out the day he turned 18. And they said, we're going to make the next five months. You know, it's just horrible. Few as possible. They, like, sent him out to do, like, yard work in the heat and stuff. Stuff. Because, you know, if he's turning 5, if he was five months out from, you know, turning 18, this would have been in, what, like, April or something? So it would have been pretty warm out here in April.

[Interviewer]

So.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So your dad's response to you guys recounting that incident, talking about incident is. Is. Is officially.

[Isaac Anderson]

What have you heard?

[Interviewer]

And his responses.

[Isaac Anderson]

So his original thing was, I have no memory of this. And then it was. It must have been an accident. And then when I was trying to pin him down on Twitter, like, a week or two ago, he just wouldn't tell me. I don't have to just keep answering this again. And I was like, dude, where did you. He's like, I talked to Solomon about this. So he claims he talked to Solomon about it. He won't really say what his. Because he says I'm misrepresenting or lied about how it happened, but he won't say what exactly I lied about or which detail was wrong. So I was asking was, like, which one of these details was. Is it? Because I. Listen, I was like, he was 17. It was because he was watching YouTube. You slam his head in the window. I was like, which part of that's wrong? Which, if I had to guess, my dad would just say, oh, I just pushed him and he just fell and hit it. That's not really how that works.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because, I mean, Howard, do you, like, also. It wasn't like he was like a little kid or something. He was 17. And a half time, you know, a little push does not send someone's head into a thing and then split their head open. Okay. That would have maybe made. If you pushed him, you, you, you might fall down and hit the ground.

[Interviewer]

But even in bringing that Isaac, though, so, so that everyone can hear you as the witnesses who are claiming that you guys are the victims, they can hear what you're saying. You're giving an instance of, hey, this was pretty dramatic.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, it wasn't like this wasn't like a one time thing.

[Interviewer]

Right. That's my point. Is that you, your testimony and your witness together is that there was. This is a pattern of behavior.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's not like he slipped up a couple times, had a few. You know, obviously if you live with somebody for 20 years, everybody's gonna screw up.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

And every. I'm sure we've all had a moment where if somebody was there to film it or post it, we'd look like a pretty bad person. Of course, who does?

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Isaac Anderson]

But this was like a. Just a continuous thing between him and my mom. Somebody was always doing something bad. Like, and it was. That was the norm. And it was more likely than not that somebody was getting mistreated or freaked out on that on. On a given day.

[Interviewer]

Are you. Because this is what people will allege or claim about you, that you're just a. Well, your dad has said it. You're just an ungrateful brat.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yep. You're just an ungrateful wimp who can't handle getting.

[Interviewer]

You've got these first world problems. You just don't like getting spanked. Are you opposed to spanking? No, no, no.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm completely fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with spanking. I think I, I actually think it's necessary. I don't know. Like, I see people that don't spake. The kids, the kids are usually being brats in public. Right, right, right.

[Interviewer]

So we're in agreement that there's anything wrong with spanking. The. The ability and the standard to be able to spank your child even commands it. It commands it. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So I think spanking is totally fine. Like, I'm going to spank my son.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So you're not opposed to spanking?

[Isaac Anderson]

Not even a little.

[Interviewer]

You're not opposed to parents confronting their children, discipline their children?

[Isaac Anderson]

Of course.

[Interviewer]

But your claim and your brothers and sister claim, this went far.

[Isaac Anderson]

This went way too far.

[Interviewer]

It is consistent pattern of really over the top. Well, dramatically, not only did it go

[Isaac Anderson]

too far, my parents knows, knew it went too far because they. Funny. Oh, this is how they spanked their kids normally. Really? Why didn't they ever do it in front of other people? They never did in front of other people, and they never talked about doing it either. And the stuff they would claim to spank your kids with, that's not what they were doing. So they. They knew. It's not like my parents were just oblivious and just thought, this is how spanking works. Because they know to not act like that around other people. Never extended families visiting. They didn't do that.

[Interviewer]

Was your father or mother beating you with the electrical cord in 2013?

[Isaac Anderson]

Which I'm trying to think that. Yeah. Yes, 2013 would have been the time. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because I would have been about. I want to say they started. They got off the court when I was about 10, and I was born 2003. So, yeah, that would have been about the time.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Why 2013 specifically?

[Interviewer]

I just listened to a sermon from him today. From 2013.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm assuming he doesn't mention that part where he was.

[Interviewer]

He was talking about the primary tool that he uses is his belt or the. This. The spoon. Cooking spoon. But he never suggests an electrical cord. So I was just wondering.

[Isaac Anderson]

Strange. That was his. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because he said there were. He said there are other tools, but he said that he uses the spoon and the belt. But talk to us about the electric.

[Isaac Anderson]

I will say for the majority of our childhood, some type of wooden paddle or spoon or the belt would be the main implements. But the electric cord was just like a. Like a heavy cord, and they had it full. It was just like. Yeah. It leaves, like, really, like, bad, like, round welts. It's just very pain. I'll do it on the back and stuff you got, like, your head or your neck. It's very, very painful. Significantly more painful than a normal spanking. Also, too, the offenses. It was like we. For, like, really, really petty things. Like, they did it to John because, like, he, like, he was doing, like, his homeschool, like, handwriting and like, he was just. I mean, he was being lazy. He did, like, a sloppy job or something in his handwriting versus sloppily because, you know, he's trying to go play outside or something.

[Interviewer]

Right? Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And it's like, okay, well, maybe you just, you know, get them in trouble or make them do it again. You don't have to beat them with a chord for that. It's not even. Like he'd done it 20 times. He wouldn't stop. Which still.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. The benefit of Homeschooling is I could finish this work quickly and get outside too.

[Isaac Anderson]

That I think I keep hearing them say is because I was. Was fair and said, hey, some. Some of the spanks, I absolutely deserved quite a few spankings. No doubt. They just go, I've saw multiple people saying this, that I said I deserved every spanking I ever got from my parents. Except the time my dad stomped on my head and said he was going to kill me after, like, the group chat thing. And that was the one time I said that he went too far. And, well, look, look, look what he was saying. They were so bad, it's like, no, I didn't say that. No, like, probably less than half the times I got in trouble, I actually deserved it because, like, they would. There will be kids. Like, a certain kid might get spanked on like 10 or 20 separate incidents in the same day. Basically anything at all, instant spanking. Now, how bad the spang is might range from mostly just. I don't know if they're in a bad mood that day or not. Kind of just depends. It wasn't like, based exactly on the crime. Like, the same crime would get you this, like, wildly different punishments depending on the day. So it was very inconsistent. It would be like, hey, why'd you make this mess? Oh, I didn't make that mess. And then you're in trouble for arguing. It's like an argument. It's like, no, like, you, like, why'd you do this? And you go, I didn't.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And you're in trouble for that.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned having your head stomped in. What's that?

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. So after the group chat thing, my dad, I was sitting, like, with my back to the front door. I thought a bar stool. And he came and he rips my chair backwards. So, like, hit the ground. Like, I broke the. Like, the wooden chair, like, broke under me. And then he started stomping on my head and kicking me, saying he was going to kill me. And then he was trying to get me to fight him because I'm assuming he wanted me to try to, like, hurt him. So that way if he put me in the hospital or worse, he'd go, oh, he attacked me. My son attacked me. So wicked did or whatever, which at the time I didn't want to because I was. My girlfriend, who's now my wife was at the church, and that's where I started. So, like, well, if I do something like, dad, I'm gonna get separated from them, and then I'm not going to be able to See my girlfriend. That was my reasoning.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because. And I didn't feel like I was in danger. My dad's not a physically like he, my dad can't fight. He's not that strong. Like, yeah, he stomped and kicked me. It's like, it's. I, I was, I was fine. Like, I was, I didn't think he was. I didn't think he was actually going to kill me because I didn't think he could, would. And if I, like, if he died actually like injured me during that, then I would have done something. I just didn't because I was fine.

[Interviewer]

But the point is, is that's irrelevant if he could have.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, well, he was. And by the way, he was not like, yeah, he was kicking a song. He was, he was going for it. Yeah, yeah, he was going for it. It's just my dad. Fortunately it would be, it would be pretty bad if he was also strong and he had such an anger problem.

[Interviewer]

Anybody else witness the head stomping?

[Isaac Anderson]

So at the time I had, I thought nobody had seen it because it was just me, him and my mom and the room. Right. But I found out later that my sister Rebecca was like watching from the office or whatever. Like the, there's like a side off like a, like a, like a folding door. So she was watching through there and she saw it happen.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

And I, I, and I remember this because my parents were trying to claim I was. I, I lied about this. And then they found out that Rebecca was saying the same thing as me and they tried to claim, oh, Rebecca was like just a little kid. She doesn't remember what she saw. It's like, okay, but funny. First of all, Rec would have been like 11 at the time. Like almost 12. Like not even like a little kid, but, but even then too funny. She happens to remember the exact same way I did. And I hadn't talked about yours because I didn't realize she had seen it at the time. Yeah, but, and at the time too my dad had been bragging about he beat the, beat us half to death or beat the life out of us or whatever. And because I remember the CPS had showed up in my parents house with like a printed out screenshot because I think it was like Corbin Russell was like distributing a screenshot of my dad saying he like beat the hell out of us or something. So they showed up with this screenshot. Like, what's this? Because like the CPS, I believe was trying to find me in 2020. Me. They were trying to find out where I Worked so they could like catch me at work and like ask me about it. But my parents know their rights. They just told them to get off their porch. And the CPS had been out to my parents house on over 50 occasions.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Isaac Anderson]

They have still never interviewed any of their children. I've never seen them make it past the front door. Like the clothes they were gone is like they're in the house like sitting on the couch directly next to the front door. Never talk to any of the kids. And yeah, so like they're, they keep, oh, we've been cleared by cps. You're not cleared by cps just because they couldn't get enough evidence to get a warrant or something that's not cleared by cps. Just like, I mean I was found not guilty of using two cell phones on the freeway. But does that mean that I was not using two? I'm not going to say that because I don't want to say. But you know, I was found not guilty. But just because you did it does not mean you're going to be found guilty or whatever. And it is for better or worse, it is really hard for CPS to take your kids. They can't just show up and take your kids away from you.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because like I, I further, I don't think we should live in a country where somebody can just make a phone call and you get, and you get ripped away from your kids.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Isaac Anderson]

And like unfortunately, yeah, I don't have a video of this happening. I didn't have a way to get a video time. Like I don't have a video of it happening. Now I've made these accusations. My dad has yet to die a single accusation I've made against him. So it's like he's got four people accusing him. He won't deny anything. He'll say it's lies or exaggeration. He will not give a specific thing that that's like at least not nothing I've said.

[Interviewer]

But in Scripture you are able to give multiple independent lines of witness and testimony about particular incidents and claims. And then that allows us to allow the accused in this case your dad, to give his response and to do

[Isaac Anderson]

his response is stop asking exactly if you're even watching these videos or whatever. Like there was a church member who'd gone up to my mom, this one, this first happened and she's like is it true? And my mom flipped out her. What kind of like are you that stupid? You get entertained, doesn't deny it of course, just you know, attacks the person for even asking it. So my dad, like, he's basically guilty by default on this. I mean, what happens if, you know, if somebody sues you in court for something and you just don't even show up and defend yourself? You get default just like, yeah, there's four people accusing you and you won't deny of it. And you just said, I'm not going to talk about this. But by the way, even if this was all completely true, it's actually totally fine. I'm going to preach multiple sermons explaining why everything I'm being accused of is completely biblical and fine. It's like, kind of sounds like you're not. Like, kind of sounds like you did it then. Like, you think these are pretty serious. You think you'd say, no, I don't do that. Not well, so what if I did? And what. What do you want to know about. And. And it wouldn't be bad if I did it, actually, Yeah, I. I did hear.

[Interviewer]

I did hear. And that's available for people to go to. I encourage people to do so. Do so. Listen to both sides cross examination. Listen to the. The testimony. Listen to the response from. From Stephen Anderson to the children's accusations. Do all of that. So what you're required to do. But there's. I mean, John has some pretty harrowing stories. You know, Solomon's got his. That major story about his. About his head. You know, Miriam's situation was so sad. I mean, we. My. My whole family was lost.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, the Miriam one was nuts, too, because the whole thing was. Oh, like they forgot his. He was just trying to get his daughter back. It's like, no, no, it was. I believe it was 10 weeks. So Miriam had refused to come home. And she texts me, I'm not coming back. Blah, blah, blah. My dad didn't even respond to that message. And 10 weeks passed, and he at no point even said anything about Miriam. He's going, nothing. Not a word. And at the time I'd asked him, I go, you're gonna try to get her back? Because I'd mentioned it. And he goes, of course not. I was like, oh, okay. He goes, yeah. He goes. He goes, she's gonna be 18 in like six months. Or it was like eight months. I think at this time she'd be my eight months. He goes, I don't want to bring her home so you can have a bad attitude and teach my other kids that. Bad ideas. If she likes Clint so much, why does she.

[Interviewer]

She.

[Isaac Anderson]

Clint can keep her then. Basically was his thing. Like, what's the point of bringing her back if she's already 17? What's, what's the point? At the time he was like that. But then what happened was when this other stuff comes out with the John interview after the Miriam thing, then Jonathan Shelley's like okay, well you're adult kids, whatever, where's Miriam? Cuz Jonathan Joe is like tells my dad basically like hey, your kids have. John and Isaac told me that Miriam ran away months ago. What the hell is going on with that? So then my dad suddenly has to get Miriam back and that's when he then for the first time time. So it's like oh, he was just, he did, he doxed his brother because he was just scared and wanted his daughter back. What father wouldn't do any, anything they could to get their daughter back. It's like yeah, but he sat on his butt for 10 weeks and didn't even attempt to get her back and told me I don't care, I don't, I don't want her back. I'm not even going to try to get her back. Ten weeks of this, two and a half months and then the, that now he suddenly needs her back as soon as it's people are public because Miram told him like listen, I'm not going to make a big public deal about this, all right? Just, you know, I'm just, I'm not coming back. I'm not going to say anything about this publicly. Just tell people I'm on vacation. Because Miriam was originally supposed to be staying there all summer anyway way they were trying to bring her home early to get her in huge trouble because they mistakenly believed she had reported them to the cps. She hadn't, but they mistakenly believed she had. They were going to take her home and do beat the crap out of her. So Miriam was just like nobody, nobody noticed that she was gone because she was supposed to be gone all summer anyway. So they were, it was super quiet for almost three months. Nobody knew about it. And then after Shelly was like well your house dude, where's your daughter? Where's your minor daughter? What do you mean? She's been gone for months and then my dad tried to get her back. He failed, made a fool of himself. And, and but of course now Miriam's an adult so he's not responsible for her. It's like, yeah, but when you were responsible for you were not really managing your house very well.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, and so then that's the major issue here is that, that's the thing too.

[Isaac Anderson]

I've told People this as well. Like, okay, fine. It's not a sin to beat your wife. For sake of argument, which obviously it is. Obviously is. But let's just say it's not. The fact you have to beat your wife as often as you do means you're not. Like, you're also not controllers. You're disqualified for that as well. And my dad knows this, and Chris Segura knows this, too, that right before all this stuff happened, my dad went to Chris Segura and told him that he was going to step down because he couldn't control his wife. And his marriage was that bad. Chris Segura knows this because this is a conversation my dad had with him. And my Chris was, oh, brother, we need you. We need your brother. And, you know, he gave his whole thing. I'm like, convince him to not step down. This was right before this other stuff came out. Of course, now my dad can't do it now, because now. Yeah. But literally right before this happened, my dad was talking to Chris Segura. I don't know if he talked to others, but I know for sure he talked to Chris Segura about wanting to step down because he could not control his wife. And his marriage was just that horrible. Horrible. And that's according to my dad. I wasn't saying anything to sit down. He's telling his people, I need to step down because my marriage is just this bad now. Of course, though, his marriage is actually perfect. His marriage is perfect. They have the greatest marriage ever. Actually better than it's ever been, supposedly.

[Interviewer]

So he says, you guys made the claim that they sleep. Sleep in separate bedrooms.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, that's not even a claim. My dad has.

[Interviewer]

He confirmed that.

[Isaac Anderson]

He's talked about it from the pulpit for years. Probably at least 10 or 15 years he's been sleeping. And they've been sleeping separate. At least 10 years they've been sleeping in separate bedrooms. Probably like 15. Like, I remember when it happened when I was a kid, when it switched. But it was. It was a long. Like, it was a long time ago. Probably like 15 years ago. Yeah, they've at least 10. Probably 15. And they sleep in separate bedrooms. And they just have. Which I'm not going to automatically say somebody has a bad marriage if they sleep in separate bedrooms. Yeah, but my wife and I don't sleep in separate bedrooms. And, like, if there's. If all your kids are saying your marriage sucks and you don't sleep in separate. And you sleep in separate bedrooms, it's kind of.

[Interviewer]

That's the point. Is that is the weight of the evidence starts to pile up in terms of.

[Isaac Anderson]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Confirmation. Because, because it is possible to have spouses that need to sleep in several bedrooms because one's like maybe a sleep schedule, noxious snorer or somebody a weird schedule.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like for example. Fortunately my son was, is a, is a great at sleeping. But like I could imagine if he was up crying all night and I've got work first thing the next morning. I, I need to sleep.

[Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Isaac Anderson]

So my wife can step with him and then she can crash during the day or something because I have to be at work. I can't be sleep deprived.

[Interviewer]

You guys are claiming that the evidence, evidence is compounding. They sleep in separate bedrooms. You're making the claim because their marriage was in so much conflict and you even get to the point of spousal abuse and spousal discipline and everything else. And so you're saying that that's what's disqualifying and here saying your father admitted to that as well.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, and he also too my mom, about a year before, in like 2023, she was trying to get her kids, the other adult kids, John Solomon to help her. She was going to try to leave my dad, but she needed her kids to testify and say all the abuse was all him and she was totally inn she's want and she couldn't get any of her kids that was willing to just commit perjury and say it was all him and none of it was her. So then she gave up on that idea.

[Interviewer]

Well how, let's do that again, Isaac. That's, that's I think important.

[Isaac Anderson]

And so she talked to my siblings like John, Salman and she didn't talk to me about it directly because I think she was worried that I would, that like I would have cuz at this point when this happened, I was not talking to my dad at all. I was on, not on speaking terms with him, whereas John and Solomon still were. So she was trying to get their help. She was trying to get their help and they were like, no, dude, we're not helping you commit perjury. Like no, you did this too? Like no.

[Interviewer]

So they'll confirm this story.

[Isaac Anderson]

John would absolutely confirm this. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. Actually I'm pretty sure she told so I know for certain she told John and Miriam. I'm almost positive she told Solomon as well.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

If Solomon says here obviously I, I, I wasn't there when this conversation happened.

[Interviewer]

Multiple witnesses that are attesting to this conversation.

[Isaac Anderson]

Correct. And then last I'd heard, basically Well, I mean, Rebecca would know about this too. Of course we can't ask her. She's a minor, she lives at home, she's under their control. She would deny it if asked. But Rebecca does know this, so I don't know. Yeah, okay, but what is it? Her last I'd heard was she was literally just. She told her kids, including me, on days that she's just praying my dad dies so she gets a life insurance payout cuz she can't do anything with him legally right now. Cuz they try to claim that. I think my mom at the meeting when this first happens was saying, oh no, I'm totally safe. My mom tried to claim she had like a hundred grand of her own money and that she could just move to Germany if she wanted to leave Michael. So my mom can't move to Germany. My mom is not a German citizen anymore. Her four oldest children are German citizens. She is not. When she became an American citizen, she had to renounce her German citizenship to become an American citizen.

[Interviewer]

Prison.

[Isaac Anderson]

Apparently that's part of the process. Now, her first four kids who were born before she was an American citizen, because I wasn't born in German, I was born in California. But because she is a German citizen, I'm now a German citizen. My son is a German citizen. Like he's got all those papers and stuff. He's a German citizen because I'm a German citizen. But now my mom is not a German citizen because like they were trying to claim, oh, she has all this money. She could just leave, go to Germany. No, she can't. She's not allowed to live in Germany. I'm sure she could maybe try to apply, but she's not a. She's not a, like a, like a Muslim rapist or anything. So the Germans aren't going to take her. You know the German immigration policy. Yeah, she's not a terrorist or anything. We were there.

[Interviewer]

We were there two years ago.

[Isaac Anderson]

She's not wanted in Saudi Arabia for terrorism. Usually it seems like the only immigrants to get into Germany. It's like somebody who's like wanted in Iraq for committing a terrorist attack. And then Germany goes, well, they'll kill them, so we got to let this guy in.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So I'm sure she maybe could, but she's not a citizen, so she. That'd be pretty hard. She also does not have any money. She's lying about that. Like, I mean, my parents don't have much money in general, to be honest. Like, like, I mean, their bills are paid, but like, they're not, like, sitting on a bunch of money. So the idea that my mom has all this money and could just leave the country, she can't. She's only an American citizen. She has no money herself, and last I heard, none. None of the stuff's in her name either. So, yeah, she doesn't have, like, a job history. She hasn't had a, you know, you know, like. Like a traditional job or something for, like, 25 years.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Plus, so, like, no, she can't leave him. The only way she could leave him is if she got all of her kids to basically get my dad, you know, throw the. Throw the book at him and. Yeah, but she can't get any of her kids. They're going to say she never did anything. It was all him.

[Interviewer]

And that's. And that's. That's another thing, too, is a party story. You don't have to go in long into this if you don't. If you don't want to. You do what you want. But you're claiming that the abuse wasn't just from your. From both.

[Isaac Anderson]

The reason I talk more about it with my dad than my mom is that my mother, while still physically abusive and very physically abusive well past what's reasonable or legal, she was much worse about mental abuse. And that type of stuff doesn't affect me as much. Like, if she tells me I'm a horrible. I don't care. I'm just like, oh, whatever, I don't care.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So whereas some of the other siblings, they talk more about my mom because that's worse. Some people, you know, different. Some people, the physical stuff might not above them as much. Whereas, you know, mentally. Yeah, but my mom's very mentally abusive and physically abusive, too, but she's more in the mental. My dad would usually. My dad was not, like, mentally abusive. Like, he wouldn't. Like, he wouldn't be telling you that, like, you're, like, ugly or something or trying to, like, put you down or saying, like, nobody's ever gonna love you. He would just beat you up because he was mad or something.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

But there was less emotional stuff with him.

[Interviewer]

So did. Did both parents, though, Isaac. Did both parents use, say, the electrical Both?

[Isaac Anderson]

Yes. Yes. Many times.

[Interviewer]

Can you help everyone? Because, look, this is. You guys have made a big point about this, and the stories have been horrible. But can you help those who want to know the truth and they want to hear your side, can you help them to understand what it was like and like to. When you talk about getting beat with an electrical.

[Isaac Anderson]

Honestly, about the same thickness as this, maybe a tiny bit thicker. About the same as this. And it was like maybe like six feet long. And it's folded twice so that you have like two loops.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Isaac Anderson]

And the problem was then they can split, because they would. And then they'd get you on, like, the neck, the head, the back. You have like, marks. It would wrap around to the front. Sometimes it was quite bad.

[Interviewer]

And are we talking about like, hey,

[Isaac Anderson]

he's swinging it fast enough to where it's like whistling. Whistling, like. Yeah, I still. It's a very distinct sound. Yeah. So he would swing it fast like he was swinging.

[Interviewer]

So we're not talking about electrical cord like that, which is already bad enough as it is, and saying, hey, turn around. And then like, you know, like a swat. Swat. We're talking about like a very hard, very hard.

[Isaac Anderson]

And sometimes the kid too, because so people will be thrashing and rolling and they're just still swinging. So, like that. That's what kids be getting hit. And like, how many.

[Interviewer]

How many times would say, say at the extreme end of punishment would you be struck with the electrical cord?

[Isaac Anderson]

Probably maximum. Possibly as high as like 20 or 30 times. But like, some. There were some times where it's a lot. I mean, it's hard to tell when you're in the moment, obviously, in a

[Interviewer]

single instance of discipline.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, because sometimes too, they will be trying to basically just torture a confession out of a kid. They'd say it's not torture. I mean, what's. What it. I guess, sure. I guess they. They're using like, the CIA definition of torture. Like, well, you're not permanently crippled, which I'm sure you've seen the CIA definition. And they go, waterboarding is not torture because, well, you're not, you know, you're still alive and.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

You're not permanently injured, right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So they basically have like a CIA, except I'm pretty sure the CIA was named here. The CIA, though, they were doing like, open hand slap and stuff. So, like, I think they're actually like. They're literally like, oh, I'm sure the CIA actually does much worse things. But, like, on paper, the secret CIA torture program was like, less extreme when it comes to, like, hitting people than they were.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because, like, the CIA can only like, open hand slap or, like, push you against the wall or something.

[Interviewer]

And was it. Was it one child in particular that would get this, or was it sort of understood in the home? This is a universal sort of punishment for everybody. You're going to get the.

[Isaac Anderson]

Everybody could get it. Which when they busted it out, I was like 10 at the time. And the youngest kid they ever did it on was Rebecca. Rebecca's a lot younger than me. Rebecca's fight over five years younger than me. So Rebecca was. Would have been getting hit with the court. She's like six years old or something. That's. That's ridiculous.

[Interviewer]

And what kind of. What kind of of of. Because your dad made it clear in one of the messages I listened to him getting give. And we talk about discipline. It should. It should not injure the. Injure the person.

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh, yeah, no, he's talked. Yeah. If you hear his own sermons where he talk, besides his more recent ones, where now he has to move the goalpost. Previous sermons, when he talks about spanking, the stuff he said was mo at least as. Unless there's something I'm forgetting. It was mostly just pretty reasonable stuff like, hey, you shouldn't be injuring your kids. You know, just give them a spank and a punishment. But he just doesn't follow any of that himself, which is saying they know what they did was too far and wrong because this isn't what they told people to do. They didn't tell people to do this. They didn't tell people about how they did this. They never did this in front of other people.

[Interviewer]

What kind of damage, Isaac, would it leave?

[Isaac Anderson]

Just like really bad, like welts, like a raised welt or bruising. On a couple occasions it would draw blood. Most of the time it did not draw blood, just really bad welts. There were several occasions where. Where there was blood. And my parents just dispute that. Never happened, of course. And the thing is the fact that Solomon said he never saw a kid get beat bloody with it. Once again, we're not always there for every single beating. Like it did happen. It's just Soma didn't see it happen. He didn't say it didn't happen. He said, I never saw it happen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Also too. It's like, is that because I think, dude, my dad will like, Simon says, like, try to deny it. But I think he was also trying to argue that the cord he used was slightly thinner than I said it was. It's like, wait, what chord? I thought, I thought it was originally that I have no proof that you did this now. It's which he never denied it, of course. It's just, where's the proof? And then it's actually. It was. It was actually slightly thinner than you said, which wouldn't honestly probably make it

[Interviewer]

worse to be a little bit. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. Obviously it was like an iPhone cord. Then there's no weight on it. Right. But though. Because that's why the court hurts about it's because it's very thin, so there's no drag on it. But it also. Because as a metal core, it's quite heavy as well. I think my dad got the idea. I don't know this, but because my dad had all these. It was around that time he had all these books on, like, Soviet stuff. I remember reading in a book. Crud. What was the book called? I think it was in the Bridget Andow. They were talking about, like, the AVO and stuff, what they're doing. And they were beating people with, like, rubber. With like, steel hoses with, like, rubber jackets on. On them. And I wonder if that's where he got the. I don't know if he got the idea of there, but it's a very similar idea.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Of like, you. You want something that. That's flexible but also really, really heavy. Because obviously, like. Like if you spank a kid with a 2x4, that. That wouldn't sting. There's no pain.

[Interviewer]

It would just like.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's just like a thump. Like you like, sort of just cracking them over the head with it. Like, you know, he spanks something on the butt with a. It was just like a thump. Whereas this thing would do a lot. It's very painful. Yes. I think I. I think my brother John, he's. He's broken, like, both of his arms there. He had. He had like. He has, like, a plate, and I'm pretty sure he said the cord that like. And he had like.

[Interviewer]

I did hear him say that. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

He has like, a plate and stuff in his arm. Like, I've never broken any bones beyond fingers or toes, which doesn't hurt that bad, but, like. Yeah, it's pretty painful. It's more probably one of the most painful things I've ever personally experienced.

[Interviewer]

And you're saying it became a regular. It wasn't always the case, but it became a regular occurrence in the house to get be.

[Isaac Anderson]

And then they stopped doing it shortly after my dad started beating my mom with it. Then perhaps my mom realized that it was horrible, which. Do you think she would have seen the damage and pain to her children and realized, but only when she personally experienced it. Because as bad as it sounds, I can assure you it is so much worse than it sounds. It's so much worse. And. And that's what. That's what my mom realized.

[Interviewer]

Your claim is that your father also used the electrical cord on your. Your mom.

[Isaac Anderson]

Of course. Of course. And. And we. We'd seen the marks on her as well, like on the back of her leg or something. You'd see it's a very distinct like looped mark. Isn't.

[Interviewer]

Look, isn't.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's like an oval like looping welt mark. So. And that's right after like he, I think after he'd used it on her a few times, she stopped using us and they stopped using it on us. Cuz then they were like, oh dang.

[Interviewer]

That's actually.

[Isaac Anderson]

Actually pretty bad, I guess.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. Which I'm surprised it took like. Like she had to personally experience it. Right. I've never been pepper sprayed. I know it hurts. I don't need experience.

[Interviewer]

Don't you think it's wild? I mean, don't you think it's wild that there are Christian men professing, believing men who actually buy into this bull crap? Well, about spousal discipline.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, that's the other thing too. Because forgetting. Okay, fine, whatever, Shelley. It's just like Indian food is just a matter of preference. But why do you have to hit your wife so much then? Why do you have to do it then? Okay, right. He has to rule wife is just because I think my dad's also said like, well, what are you supposed to do if your wife just won't obey you? It's like, well, in your situation you're supposed to step down actually, like because you're the pastor, you're not managing your own house. Clearly.

[Interviewer]

That's true.

[Isaac Anderson]

He should be stepping down. But it's like, so it's like he's like, whether or not, like either he's beating her that much and she doesn't deserve it and he's got to step down or he's beating her that much and she does deserve it and he's got to step down for that reason too. Like he's kind of screwed either way on that one. Which is why he has to make it. Oh, what do you want to know about my bedroom? Because he. Because either option is terrible for him.

[Interviewer]

Is there anybody else, Isaac, that would testify or say I witnessed that at least on one occasion.

[Isaac Anderson]

Hitting her.

[Interviewer]

Hitting her with the electro cord.

[Isaac Anderson]

My siblings will.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Nobody else. Cuz they obviously didn't do this when like there's guests over. Obviously John Mir would all testify to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not even. Cuz we knew at the time we like at the time we're like, is that why they stop? I think, I think because at the time we thought it was funny. Like, oh, mom doesn't. Oh, now she rose the cor.

[Interviewer]

Oh, must be taste of her own medicine.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, a lot of fun. Cuz at the time we hit with the cord. I mean, this probably sounds bad. We, we were super stoked about that because, well, she would do it to us. We're like, yeah, how do you like that? Yeah, it's like, yeah, how do you like it? Now it's obvious. I was like 11 of the time.

[Interviewer]

I shouldn't.

[Isaac Anderson]

Obviously you shouldn't act that way.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Isaac Anderson]

But it's like obviously it was, she was, she's not. If she's done that to a bunch of little. She gets it herself. It's hard to feel bad.

[Interviewer]

You recall it feeling like retribution. Like you're, well, yeah, because she's done

[Isaac Anderson]

it so many times to little kids and it's like, it's like, well, you know, how do you like that? Like, how's that feel?

[Interviewer]

Why this? Look, Isaac, this is a, it's a big step, man. It's a big step to come out in public and to do the interviews that you did. Like, when I saw your first interview, man, I was like, like, I really like this guy. And I was like, that was the

[Isaac Anderson]

biggest response I got is, is that people expect me, I guess to be like more like less normal. I'm not sure they were. Yeah, no, I was like, oh, he's actually normal.

[Interviewer]

I was like, you seem like your head's on straight. You're super sharp. Look, hey, here, look. I, I, I hope this is clear. To give credit where credit is due. Equal weights and measures don't show personal favoritism. These are all God standards. Your, your parents obviously did a good job of making sure at least give you a somewhat rigorous education. You're a sharp guy. You're a thinker. You reason well. I mean, we're out there having lunch together. You're quoting from different works of history and things like that and so that you're, you're a sharp guy. So I, I, well, I just really

[Isaac Anderson]

like reading because I didn't have access to like movies or video games as a kid. I'd never seen a movie till it's a changer or even played a video game even once. So. I know. So my sole form of recreation is what you can play outside. A little hot to play outside. So I was, I was always in trouble for like reading like was supposed left home, supposed to do in Chores. I've been reading all afternoon instead, so I just read a lot. So that's why I know stuff.

[Interviewer]

It's just, yeah, well, that notes good.

[Isaac Anderson]

So I said, but it's not even that, like, I'm like some, like, great scholars that I like to read. And obviously, if you're going to read, you're just going to.

[Interviewer]

You're homeschooled. You had all this stuff available to you. So I saw your first interview. I was like, oh, my goodness, this is crazy. I mean, it seems like a bold step, too, to come out and just, and start making these claims publicly.

[Isaac Anderson]

The reason I did the. I was just offered.

[Interviewer]

I know.

[Isaac Anderson]

I, I. And, and why, like, why do you do the interview? I was asked. I have never turned down interview. Everybody's asked. I've never solicited an interview, and I've never turned one down. If somebody wants to talk to me, I go, of course. Let's talk. If Shelly called me up and said, you want to come in the Baptist buy August, I'd be, of course I'll talk to you right now. I will talk to basically anybody about literally anything. Yeah, like, I like to talk. I'll. And you reach out. You want to talk? Sure, let's talk.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So you, you come out first, you make some claims, then John comes out, then Miriam. Then Solomon ultimately comes out with his video where he's like, surrounded by.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, the reason why Solomon did it is Solomon. Solomon's a more private guy. He's not on social media. He's own business. He came out because my parents kept saying. My parents were slamming us, slamming Uncle Clint. And then they're saying, and Salman won't say it. See, Salman won't do. And they were basically trying to claim, like, Salman's on their team.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because he hadn't said anything. So then he had to make a video, be like, no, I'm not on your team. Like, stop it. I'm not on your team. No, like, they're telling the truth. So, yeah, they basically forced him to come.

[Interviewer]

I remember seeing that video where he was all in red. He was in the red room and everything.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And, but okay, so you guys have all come out and made it. Made a look at I. It's a serious commitment to do what you're doing right now to make sure you're telling the truth. This is what I experience. And, and look, this sucks. It's a fallen world, and sometimes things break, break apart and break down. We're supposed to honor our fathers and mothers Things don't work out the way all the time in terms of a good relationship. Things like this happen. And so you've come out and you're making these claims against your dad and your mom. So are your other siblings, so are other people who know them. And it's a dramatic step. Why did you commit to this, Isaac? Why?

[Isaac Anderson]

So previously, anybody who asked me about my dad or asked why I was church, I would just gladly tell them I wasn't just getting on a soapbox to shout the world because there was no point. I didn't need to, right? I was just like, I don't. Because I. I'm honest. It's because I didn't really care about my dad's fans because I knew I based on the ones I talked to as well. I knew that the majority of his fans don't care if it's true. And they will blindly. They'd follow him off. Off a cliff. So I was just like. I didn't want to waste my time. So if somebody comes and talks to me or asks me like, like Chris say or something, I tell them or the. The church members who are staying with in laws. I'll tell them, sure. But I don't like go. I wasn't going out of my way. Then I get offered by Jordan from the Dead Domain channel to do an interview because Jordan had made a video which I should get at this because I saw this on the Baptist Spies. This is just categorically false. They tried to claim that the only my dad's claiming that the only reason I didn't interview with Jordan was like, okay, I'm gonna trash my dad, but you need to take that the video because Jordan made a video talking basically crap about me saying I'm a Nazi or whatever, blah blah, all this stuff. And then I had at the time just responded like with like, hey, dude, some of these, like there were some critical details video that were just wrong. Jordan reaches out like we're like emailing a couple times. And then Jordan like ends up like saying, hey, you know, I should have talked for blah blah, apologizes, takes the video down. Then like four months after because this happened like October or something. Then in January, I do an interview with Jordan because I was asked, do you want to do an interview? And my first interview, it goes an hour in before to the hour and a half interview before I even talk about physical stuff with my parents. I wasn't getting on there. It's like my dad's a wife beater and he beat us. I wasn't even doing that. I was literally just answering questions about the new ifb. What it was like, we're talking about music, movies, homeschooling, just like, stuff. And then I, and I, I didn't even mention about my dad beating my mom in the video because I wasn't asked. I wasn't even going out of my way to go after him. I was just literally answering questions, just doing. I was offered interview, so I took it and I answered questions. I didn't really like, volunteer a bunch. And then in subsequent interviews because then John and Miriam talk about it and then like, they're, I had to like, yes, they're telling the truth. Here's my details. But I had also been telling people that my dad was a wife beater before I ever talked to Jordan. Because people were saying, oh, your story changed. You didn't mention that in your first interview. It's like, yeah, I was telling people that years before my first interview. I just didn't mention in that interview. But anybody who asked, I would gladly tell them because like, I, I don't anything to hide. You ask me a question, I'll answer. And they were trying to claim that like I did this. Some kind of like, quid pro quo go with Jordan to like, oh, take down the video about me. It's like, yeah, but that video was taken down like four months before my interview. And I never asked for that video to get taken down. Jordan volunteered to take it down. I was like, cool. I didn't, I didn't need, I don't care. Like the first videos, it didn't even bother me. I thought it was funny. And then I, I.

[Interviewer]

You were out on a hike, right?

[Isaac Anderson]

Or you were, you were on.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

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[Interviewer]

Look at this.

[Isaac Anderson]

I gotta check my mail. What do we got going on here? Oh, look how sharp that is. What is this? Oh, 5% off. You can go to amtacblades.com, put apology in the coupon code, get 5% off your order and he will match that and give 5% to End Abortion Now. Again, amtechblades.com com we're grateful for them. Check them out.

[Interviewer]

You've been able to put your story out. So, so have your siblings. Your dad and your mom have responded. Everyone gets to hear all this now and hear the testimony and start to put these things together in their own mind. You have made the main claim is that he's disqualified.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. Well, he's very disqualified as a pastor. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is that the central reason that you're taking this bold step and your family is taking.

[Isaac Anderson]

Probably the main reason. It's public. Yeah. If he didn't have a public following or church, there will be like, I mean, imagine if my dad was just a regular guy. Why would you do like, what would you need to get online for talk about it. It's only because he's a public figure refusing to step down. So you have to. Well, how do you reach his public following?

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because they don't like.

[Interviewer]

And that's, that's what I mean. Isaac.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is that okay? You guys are claiming to be the victims. You're saying you have the evidence, you want justice to be done. But I guess that in the end, I'm asking you what, as, as, as the victims, do you want to be the end here in terms of what do you think you would ask God, God bring justice to this and do this.

[Isaac Anderson]

Most important for me would be my siblings at home. Like them, them to not be mistreated. That's obviously because they're actively being mistreated. That is my biggest thing. That'll be my biggest concern. And then obviously, yeah, it would be cool if my dad had a change of heart and actually felt bad and repented of this. But he's, he's. So far I'm not seeing a lot of signs that he's going to.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And it's at his age, he's, it's, it would probably take any. Nothing short of like, maybe like a near death incident or something that like, you know, snaps him out of his. Because my dad is just a very deluded illusion. Like, that's why my dad is so depressed now about this stuff. Because my dad legitimately seems to believe that, like, he's like, more important than everybody else and stuff. And he's like, God, he's like, he thinks he's like the greatest. He said this for, like, I don't think publicly, but he says he is. Like, he's the Elijah of this generation. He's like the most important. He thinks he's the most important pastor since Jack Hiles or whatever. And he thinks he's the most important pastor in the world. And he's so important. So he thinks God, he thinks, like, God's like, completely on his side and he's like God's top guy or, or whatever. So then he's. That's why he's wondering, like, God's letting me down. He's not killing my kids or whatever. Like, so that's why it's bothered was because he legitimately believes that he has the right to do these things. He knows it's wrong or whatever, which is why he won't talk about it. Like, he knows nobody else thinks that's normal, but he doesn't. Like, he seems to think he just has the right to do that. Like, have you seen all this? I'm saying I could, I, I, it's not even possible for me to rape my wife. Yeah. In his mind, he can do whatever he wants. He answers to no earthly authority. There's no pastor here. Answers to his brother. His brother and sister disagree with him. He, he wants them to die. Right. Pastor friends, he's had since, like, Pastor Jimenez is like, they've noticed since they were teenagers. And it's just, oh, get this guy out of here. Pastor Bird. For he's known for 20 years and it's gone. He doesn't answer to any earthly authorities. Already said for he doesn't care what the law says about these things. So it's like he doesn't answer to anybody.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Except for God. But according to him, you know, he's the man of God, so he's the closest or whatever.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Which obviously he, he's, he wouldn't, he wouldn't call himself like a pope or something or something. But like. Yeah, but everybody in his new ifb, which is like his own sub denomination or whatever, has to follow him. And if you, not only not just follow him, but you have to make a video supporting him and stuff, you have to stick up for him. Otherwise you're gonna get kicked out of the, out of the club. And yeah, he basically that's why he's so mad now too. Because he's, he's wondering like why hasn't God done this yet? Because he, he seems like he's like delusional.

[Interviewer]

I think that was the thing. It was delusional. It was a hard, hard, hard to hear him saying those things to, to about you guys. But also about the kids that are in the room at the time. And he's getting given that message.

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh yeah, yeah. Cuz some of his kids turn out bad. He doesn't want to try on the other ones.

[Interviewer]

You know, ask me how excited I am to try, you know, to invest in this relationship after Miriam.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's like the close we ever got to regret is he told me and Salman that, that like he's like, well I regret some of the stuff I did, you guys, but just because the way you guys turned out is so horrible. Well, clearly I must have done something wrong cuz we're just both terrible. Mind you, this is before we've like gone after him publicly and it's just like I guess dude, like he just like, like, like like not that I'm not here like because people are going to say it's like no, I'm not like demanding this. Like my dad has never told me that like he's proud of me ever, that I can remember ever. And he's never expressed anything like that. And it's like which I don't care, I don't care about his approval. Like I don't need the approval of some like deadbeat wife beater. Like I don't care about his approval. His approval is worthless to me. But like he, he does not care about most of his kids. Which is why like. And I remember too like when I was the first one out against him and stuff, I, he had told. I heard from multiple young younger siblings that my dad just said Well I have 11 other, other kids. Did that was the other you talking about? I got 11 other kids. Like hey, who cares? I can like he, he, he could spare me. Basically. That's literally just what he said. I asked, so what? Which is why they're not really. And that's why even now he's saying he's got, well now he's got eight kids which he's just gonna keep running out of kids. Because my parents think I'm. According to my parents, this is what they've posted. Because, remember, originally I did this because. Well, the current story is that I did this because I was trying to like, get Jordan to take down the video about me. That's why four months after Jordan took down the video that I didn't even ask Jordan to take down, now suddenly I'm doing this interview just to do this whatever, right? Even though I held back on my parents and really didn't slam that I was just answering questions. And I even tried to be fair to my dad and say, well, you know, we were always fed, we had clothes and stuff, you know, he. The bills were paid on time. I even was super fair to my first interview. I was mostly like, oh, I didn't. I hardly said anything bad about him because according to my dad, all the stuff I accuse him of isn't even a sin to begin with. So how was my first interview? Interview bad?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

I didn't call him names. I didn't call him names. I didn't say he's a deadbeat or an abuse. I didn't even say those things. I just said what he did. Which according to him, none of those things are bad. None of those things are even sins. So it's like. Which is why after my first interview, you noticed my dad didn't do anything about it because he 1 knew that I could have said so much worse about him. So he didn't want to, you know, push it on that. And also it's like he thinks all this stuff's fine. And most of his church members, they weren't really bothered by it either. They're like, well, yeah, because most of his church members agree with him on these things. That's why I least the ones that remain.

[Interviewer]

So you. Thanks for sharing a lot with me, dude.

[Isaac Anderson]

I know, sorry, I. I know I keep rambling. It's.

[Interviewer]

No, no, it's not rambling. I'm going to give you a chance to talk. The whole purpose of this is, is it's in public now. It's the duty of everyone who is. Is listening to it to hear both sides and to hear you out. At this point, cross examination can only be done at this point with.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, I have people who like reach out to me now and they'll be like, angrily sending me all these questions and it's like, dude, I've talked about this in like three different interviews and they're like sending me all these paragraphs. Blast me. It's like, you literally have not seen any of my videos. I've.

[Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Isaac Anderson]

Exam. I've like your exact question. I've already addressed that exact thing.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

And it's like, I, I can accept the person who just says, this doesn't concern me. I don't want to know about any of this. I can accept that position.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

But it's like, what do you mean? You're gonna hardcore defend my dad and you haven't seen any of. You haven't even heard my side. Like, why don't you just shut up then? Like, you're not involved then. I can, I, I can respect somebody who just goes, dude, I don't know, but I don't care. I'm not expecting like, who? Yeah, I'm some random guy to them.

[Interviewer]

Of course.

[Isaac Anderson]

Why should they care? Yeah, why should they? But like, why are you talking about it then? Like, there's stuff that like, I don't know enough about and I just don't care about it then, like. But some of these people, they have to, they just have to like vehemently defend him. They like really need my dad to be like their man of. I don't, I honestly don't know why some of his followers are like so attached to him personally. Yeah, I mean like, obviously he's a funny guy. He's charismatic. I don't think that's like the up for debate. But like, I don't know, like, they're like weirdly obsessed with him. Like people like at these conferences, like lining up to get their bible signed by him and stuff, which my dad doesn't even ask for that type of stuff. He doesn't really like that stuff. Like Chris Sigur named like three of his kids after my dad. He had like Steven and he's. One of his kids is named like Steven Anderson Sigura. There's no one that's Anderson. Yeah, like, no. Even the last name too.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Isaac Anderson]

And at the time my parents were, they were like not happy about that. Cuz there was first of those, like Stephen Luke Sigura. And they're like, But Steven's just a normal name.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And then there's Stephen Anderson Sigurd. It's like, okay. And then there's Jujana Anderson Sigurd, which the funny part is like, this is some obscure Hungarian name. I have never met somebody else with that same. And they spelled it the way my mom does too.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Never met anybody else with that name. And it's like, dude, you just named like a little Hispanic girl that like now she's gonna just explain this. Like, she has some, like, Hungarian name that nobody can pronounce and nobody can spell. And nobody knows this name because literally. No, because there's not that many Hungarians, like, out there. There. Like. But they're just so obsessed with my parents.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And my parents were not happy about, like, I don't think they, like, said anything to Chris, but they were kind of like, obviously, it's weird. If somebody. If somebody came up and said, I named my child Isaac Anderson cigarette? I'd be like, thanks, I guess.

[Interviewer]

And then they do it again.

[Isaac Anderson]

Then they went up to my wife and be like, all right, dude. Like, yeah, little weird.

[Interviewer]

Too much. It's over the top.

[Isaac Anderson]

Which his first, like, four kids are all named. It was like, Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris Christina.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

And then he just switched name him after my dad. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. I guess he just has, like. He has, like. He has, like, eight or 10 kids now. It's like. And they're like, all either named Chris or Steven or Xander. Like, it's kind of nuts. Like, it's got to be hard to keep track.

[Interviewer]

And your dad doesn't. Your dad doesn't like that stuff. He doesn't.

[Isaac Anderson]

So, like, when I talk about this, I'm not accusing my dad of getting people to try to, like, worship in the way that they do. He doesn't try to. But that's just how they. That's just how these people are. For one reason or other people. Like, obviously, if somebody or these people. I. I think my dad stopped doing this. There would be people coming to my dad's. Like, they've traveled from out of the country or out of state just to get baptized by him. Which this. They were doing this back in the Bible too. Like, oh, you got Paul. Like, who got baptized by Paul Paulos or Paul.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Isaac Anderson]

They were already doing that, which I think now if you show up for a baptism, they'll like, my dad. I. I think he doesn't really do baptisms much more because it was people like, oh, I want to be baptized just by you. Which it's fine. If there's a guy who's like, I don't have a church in my area, so I'm going to come here, get baptized. But, like, they would come just to get baptized by him. Like. Like, they have a local church that they attend. They were, like, waiting to get baptized.

[Interviewer]

Same things happen to me. And I purposely said.

[Isaac Anderson]

Or people, like, in line to get their Bible signed by. It's like, well, now he's got to sign their Bible. If somebody's like, I drove eight hours to get my Bible signed, like, of course you have to sign it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, I usually.

[Isaac Anderson]

But, like, it's weird that he's, like, treated like a rock. Like, he gets at these other con. At these conferences. You get, like, treated like a. Like, people run, like, so happy to see him.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. My. My hope is that after listening to you guys, listening to your dad, and this is all now public, and everyone's giving them. He spent a considerable time even giving sermons on his response to know you. You guys. Yeah, yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

He's done so many sermons, it's all public. Never denying anything, though. Just a lot of talk about why we shouldn't ask about it or why wouldn't be bad.

[Interviewer]

I would agree. I don't think that his response to your claims is adequate or satisfies biblical standards to. To refute your claims.

[Isaac Anderson]

Forget refute. It's not even a denial.

[Interviewer]

I know.

[Isaac Anderson]

He won't even deny it. He'll just say it's a lie or an exaggeration, but he won't say which parts.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, it's so. So it's all public. After seeing the. His crash out two weeks ago, I thought, okay, maybe it'd be good to talk about this and to talk about at least one of the witnesses. All of your witnesses online, everyone can hear everybody.

[Isaac Anderson]

Hours of interview.

[Interviewer]

So this. I mean, I'm talking to one witness now. But all this can be corroborated with hours of testimony that's already out there?

[Isaac Anderson]

Yes, correct.

[Interviewer]

I believe that your dad, for the good of his own life, heart and mind and family, is morally obligated to step down.

[Isaac Anderson]

By his own account, he's apparently miserable. Miserable. He can't even take a nap without, like, he can't even. He can't get a. Apparently, the last two years, he's just been miserable. He can't. It's the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up. The last thing he thinks about before he goes to sleep. Right. He can't even take a nap. He's having nightmares. Dude, I don't think about any of this stuff, which I'm. They're already gonna say, oh, he must be a reprobate. His conscience is seared with a hot iron. Yeah, that's why it doesn't bother him. It's because my dad's basically having his Jonah moment. Just sitting, waiting for Nineveh to get destroyed. He's just getting cooked in the heat. Just waiting for nine to get destroyed. And it's just not, not happening.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

He's sitting under his booth with his gourd or whatever and just waiting and it's not happening. Whereas me, I'm just like, I don't. Why wouldn't I sleep all night? Yeah, he's miserable. He's not even, it's not even good for him. He doesn't want to pastor. I'm saying you shouldn't pastor. He's like, I don't want a pastor. I'm miserable. And then his fans are like, no, pastor, we need you to keep going. Like, they're like, they're not. They don't even care about.

[Interviewer]

That's a hateful thing to do to your dad.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, like, like his family says he should step down. He says he doesn't want to do this anymore. He's miserable and he has been for two years.

[Interviewer]

It's not like it's not loving to him to say keep going.

[Isaac Anderson]

I mean, we all have our bad days. Maybe a bad week, maybe a bad month. It's been apparently two years. Been being miserable.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

And his marriage, I'm assuming, is not any better, despite what he says, because the fact that he keeps talking about how good his marriage is. You, I'm sure you know this. People who post about a good. Their marriages never have good marriages.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's. People with happy marriages don't have to post about it because to them, it doesn't occur to. To them that other people might think their marriage is bad so they don't have to post about it talking about how good it is.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Y.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like, what do you have to prove?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So I, I think that your testimony and your witness and the evidence you have is compelling. It's overwhelming. I think that if you listen to your dad's response publicly and do as much of a cross examination as you can, listening to the testimony of everyone and their response is, your dad's response is found wanting. I think that this is a painful thing to bring out into the public. I think it's destructive. I think it's destructive to do to the people that he's continuing to minister to. He's doing sermons, vilifying his children.

[Isaac Anderson]

I think when it first happened, he literally spent for two months, every single sermon, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. It was like literally two months straight was about this.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because I remember, I, like, he finally broke his streak. And I was like, oh, he broke his streak talking about it finally.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And so this isn't healthy. It's Not.

[Isaac Anderson]

He still kept going. It just wasn't every single.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly. So it's, it's not healthy. It's not good for the church. It's. It's not good for the name of Christ.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's not good for him.

[Interviewer]

It's not good for him. And that's what I said. I said your dad. I think your dad is a brilliant man. He's very intelligent.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. He's not dumb.

[Interviewer]

He's super intelligent. I think he's a hard worker. I think your dad has obviously a strong entrepreneurial spirit. Obviously. I think he will do great and well and be better for himself and his family if he steps away from this ministry that he should, he shouldn't be doing in the first place.

[Isaac Anderson]

I don't think he'd be able to find work easily because, like, I mean, there are jobs he could get where they wouldn't care. But like, he's. With his mortgage and stuff, he's not gonna be able to. He needs to make a lot of money because he's got eight kids at home and. Right. More expense and any job that's going to be paying the kind of money he has enough dedicated haters that are just like leftists or something who will hunt down any job he works at. And like, because they did this to him, that's why he became a full time pastor. Because even back 2013, 2014, they were really going after things and they were like finding out who his customers were and like contacting his customers of his. Because he was like a low voltage electrician. He did mostly fire alarms, I think some burglar stuff, mostly fire alarms systems, just, you know, maintenance, installation. He did it like he did him in like Arizona, California, and he was doing pretty good with that. He had a good business going, but he basically was losing customers left and right because they would call up his customers and get him to like lose his. Because some of these places, a contract like he would like do like all these Rite Aids and stuff because, you know, there's like annuals, because we'd go with them on these workshops, trip sometimes. So you'll be doing work like all the Rite Aids or Mervin's, which has not existed for quite a while.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

But it'll be like Rite Aids, Mervyn's, like all these hotels and stuff. So you might. If they, if they can cost him one customer, that might be so many jobs because like he, he did so much work for Rite Aid and there's so many of them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So that's kind of like, he was. I don't think he's gonna do well in the private sector. Like, I know he was. I. I heard something about him trying to do, like, tutoring or whatever, but it's like, I don't know how. Like, how much work's he gonna get tutoring people in, like, ancient Greek or whatever he's tutoring them on, Like.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So I don't know how easy it is for him. A day job, and they don't have, like, a bunch of savings or investments. Like, they don't have a retirement account.

[Interviewer]

So I think. I think that's my. That next question is, like, I don't

[Isaac Anderson]

think he can quit being a pastor, like, financially unless he's got a bunch of money on the side that nobody knows about. I don't think he can stop being a pastor just for.

[Interviewer]

He's got to pay. And it's. It's your suspicion that that's what's keeping him going even through all the pain?

[Isaac Anderson]

Correct? Well, he needs a. I mean, why do any of us go to work? Right? I mean, I'm a commercial plumber. That's not always an easy job. It's pretty hot. Yeah. But. But I like making money because I have to pay my bills.

[Interviewer]

Right. Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's like. Yeah. If I'm having a bad day at work, it's like, oh, I still got to. I still got to work.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But it seems like he's having a really bad day at work himself.

[Isaac Anderson]

He's been having a bad couple years at work. I'm usually in a good mood at work. Yeah, it's. Some days are worse than others, you know, Usually I'm having a good time at work. Usually if you catch work, I'm. I'm having a. That's because I don't get paid by the hour, so I can take breaks, play, do whatever I want. Right, Right. I work by myself.

[Interviewer]

Play on your two phones, but not.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, one's a work phone, one's a personal phone, and supp. And, you know, sometimes you have to, like, call a customer on one phone. You're reading the info on the other, and there's some dumb state tr. Apparently next to you. Yeah, right.

[Interviewer]

We.

[Isaac Anderson]

We'd have a good conversation.

[Interviewer]

Talking about allegedly.

[Isaac Anderson]

So I've still never been found guilty. Actually, there was once I was dirt biking on the res without a license in my motorcycle. They gave me, like, a $75 fine. I'm not even.

[Interviewer]

Did you. Did you create a victim damaging your property?

[Isaac Anderson]

No. So I was. I was in Trouble because I'd gotten stopped because apparently you can't just hang out on the Res. Even though it was on like, a public road. I wasn't. I wasn't spending money at their casino, so I wasn't authorized to be there, which I didn't even get in trouble for that. Cuz like, the first it was. I got a female cop first, which was. They were. She was trying to, like, charge me with like, trespassing on tribal land for like several grand. But then a male cop shows up. He's like, oh, sick dirt bike. We're talking about bikes. And then I got off, which I didn't have my license on me, so I got like a $75 fine. I'm not even going to fight that. I was like, yeah, I didn't have a license. 75. That's reasonable. I just paid it, right? But then because I was under 18, I had to go to some dumb, like, driving class. And it was me and 20 women who were all in there for DUIs. I was there for like nine hours. And all of them. It was the worst part for me was that none of them took accountability. They all had an excuse for why they dropped. Drove drunk. There was not a single one of them. They all like, well, in my situation, here's why I had to drive drunk. I was there the whole time. Just like. Because the whole class was about drunk driving, basically. Yeah. And they're like, why are you. I was like, I'm here because I was. Didn't have my driver's license, and I was on. On my bike. And they're like, what'd you learn? I was like, well, I have my license for my motorcycle. And I was like, I have the endorsement now. I was like, so, yeah, I have my license. Like, I already fixed this problem.

[Interviewer]

I'm just here and I hate it.

[Isaac Anderson]

Basically because they. Basically because the 75 fine didn't even bother. I'll just pay that fine. Forget about it right now. You have to sit in a classroom nine hours. That's way worse than $25 fine.

[Interviewer]

Just let me pay.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, yeah. I'd rather pay like a $400 fine than have to take a day off work and sit in some struggle session about drunk. Cuz like, none of the class even applied to me because almost everybody knows you need a driver's license to drive.

[Interviewer]

That's not justice for sure. Well, how can we, Isaac? How can we pray for you and. And for your sister and your brothers that. How can we. How can we pray for you?

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh, I mean, I mean, I don't have any, like, specific requests cuz, like, my life's going great. I'm in great health. My son's in good. Oh my.

[Interviewer]

You seem like you're doing well.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm quite blessed. Far more than I deserve.

[Interviewer]

Well, what, what, what do you want people to pray about this situation? Like, how do you want it to end?

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, I want my dad first, my mom to first. To first and foremost stop treating their kids at home like crap. Like, stop. And then he needs to step down and get his crap together. Like, I'm not even sitting here expecting him to apologize to me. I don't even care about that. I. I don't want his apology. Like, I. I don't care whether or not he apologized to me. It's not like if he apologized. Like, that's all I wanted. No, it's just I want him to stop doing it. I wouldn't even care to apologize. Like, can you maybe stop doing it possibly? Like, I feel like that's pretty reasonable. Like, can you stop Also too, like, seeing. My parents have made no effort to see my son at as well. None whatsoever. Which I told them, hey, you guys can come see him anytime you want. Just bring some of my siblings over with them. And they won't do that, of course. And they have not asked again. They don't. They don't care about him. Or at least they. Maybe they care about. They don't ever even attempt to see him. You think they'd want to see their grandson?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, and that's the thing, Isaac, look, in the end, none of this is good. Like, none. None of this is.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, yeah, it's not a good. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think anybody thinks it's a good.

[Interviewer]

Nobody. I'm saying nobody should be. I'm saying nobody should be rejoicing over this regardless. Like, for example, your dad has slandered me and vilified me for many, many years, lied about me publicly. He's done sermons about me and my wife start.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because, like, I can't remember a time he wasn't talking. It's got to be at least like 10 years or something.

[Interviewer]

It's got to be like, it's got to be somewhere around 2000, 13, 15. Somewhere around there.

[Isaac Anderson]

But like, what was his reason for hating as much? Because he always. They were always talking. They would call you Jeff Dirt Bin or Bourbon.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Oh, Jeff Bourbon.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. That was a big.

[Interviewer]

Kind of a cool name, though. No, but. No, they would call me that for sure. Apostasia. Church.

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh yeah.

[Interviewer]

Church. Yes. Well, he was.

[Isaac Anderson]

They would try to like workshop. I forget what they were. They would be like, dude, my mom. Dad would go back for like, trying to come up with new names for you.

[Interviewer]

Were they really?

[Isaac Anderson]

Yes, like, try to come up with them. Like, like, what about this? But like, try to like, you know, like, say it. Like, see how, you know, see if it works out. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

If it's a good brand.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. You know, if it sounds good when you say it.

[Interviewer]

But here's the thing. Look, your dad, as much as he's lied about me, he's vilified me, he's done sermons literally slandering me and saying provably false things about me. I mean, from being a drunk to a homosexual or all these different things. Calling my wife since you're a heritage too.

[Isaac Anderson]

Which, which, why does he even think you're a heretic anyway? Like, which doctrine was that on? Because I thought you're, I thought we're on the same page of like, like faith alone.

[Interviewer]

Faith in Christ.

[Isaac Anderson]

Once saved, always saved.

[Interviewer]

I believe that once God saves you, he keeps you. Yes.

[Isaac Anderson]

Okay, so what's the main dispute then? Cuz I, I. You're not KJV only. But that's not.

[Interviewer]

I'm reformed. I'm reformed.

[Isaac Anderson]

Isn't that just Baptist? You sometimes drink or whatever.

[Interviewer]

Beards with beards and drink. So your dad hates Calvinism. He hates, you know, the reformed. He hates the reformed camp. And I think that that probably initially started his opposition to someone like me. But then I don't even know where. I don't even. I can't even tell you honestly where it SW to like, you know, trying to vilify me or.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, I might even. Cuz like, I still don't know, like what the big issue with you was. Cuz like if you, if it's, you know, faith alone stuff. Because, like the KJV thing, my dad doesn't think that, like, my dad knows there are plenty of sa people that, that don't use the kjv. I prefer the kjv. It's my favorite. Personally. It's what I'd recommend.

[Interviewer]

It's a great translation.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, it's. I think it's the best. But like, I'm not. If somebody's reading a new King James, I'm not going to flip out on them or something. I might, I might recommend. I don't know where.

[Interviewer]

I don't know where Zamus comes from, but all I have to say is this is even given his, his hateful things he's done towards me and he's, I mean, I mean, it's a bold thing for a man to do a message publicly calling another man's wife a drunk. Oh, yeah. In fact, is not.

[Isaac Anderson]

They talk all the way.

[Interviewer]

It's a bold.

[Isaac Anderson]

Have you heard you've been accused of stealing produce from their produce co op as well?

[Interviewer]

No, I never heard that one.

[Isaac Anderson]

He said this many times. He's talking about you. My mom had that produce co op or whatever. Supposedly when they have like those baskets, supposedly you like, moved some, like, vegetables from somebody else's basket into yours. See, like, supposedly you had a couple extras which probably one of her, one of the kids. Possibly.

[Interviewer]

Possibly. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. Supposedly you're accused of stealing like a couple dollars. Like, like you got caught in the act, like moving like some zucchinis or. Cute.

[Interviewer]

Did I really? Okay, that's wild.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm surprised. I'm pretty sure he's preached either way. They talked about it constantly about the time you like, robbed him.

[Interviewer]

My family's gonna love this.

[Isaac Anderson]

They're gonna be like, no, you stole like, fruit. The fruit thieves you were being accused of stealing. Like, you basically like moved like a little bit, you know, like, like I would just occasional somebody's plate you borrow a little. Like they step up to grabs and you grab a piece of their food and put it on yours.

[Interviewer]

That's fantastic. So, okay, all I'm saying is, is as much as your dad has done, I mean, honestly, like some crazy stuff like what man talks about another man's wife in the middle of a sermon, calls her a drunk publicly when there's no evidence for that. And my wife is not a drunk. And that's a dangerous move to.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, it's because his standards. Anybody who's. If you ever drink any form of hard liquor, in any quantity, you are a drunk, right? Or if you drink daily, you're a drunk, which I'm. I'm assuming you don't drink.

[Interviewer]

D. Of course, I, I, I, which

[Isaac Anderson]

for the record, I don't drink at all. Ever. I haven't drunk in years. I, I've done. I've probably drunk. I've probably drunk less than five times in my life. Didn't like it any of those times.

[Interviewer]

You know what's also amusing about that is your dad didn't do his homework when he was slandering and calling us drunks and everything else. He didn't even realize that I'm the pastor of a church that came out of a drug and Alcohol rehab where I was the chaplain helping all these drunks and drug addicts to come to Christ out of drug and alcohol addiction. Apology at church. Came out of the. One of Arizona's hospitals longest hospitals dealing with drug and alcohol abuse and 24 hour care detoxification.

[Isaac Anderson]

I do work at one of those type of places that does like honestly though, you need to talk to them because like every time I go there, the place is like super like plain and depressing. I feel like the whole time there I was like, dude, like people like this, like, I want to do drugs here. Like whenever I'm there, all the people there are like trying to like talk to me buds because like they're clearly just bored out of their mind. They're like all excited, excited, like, oh, what are you working on? I'll talk with that. Yeah, yeah. Those places are not.

[Interviewer]

I was, I was the head chaplain at Calvary Addiction Recovery Center. Calvary Center. And your dad was making claims about me being a drunk, my wife being a drunk, when we literally.

[Isaac Anderson]

I assumed you drank a lot because. Yeah, he just talked. Was like, that's just an established fact. Like, oh, that's Pastor Bourbon, of course.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, literally.

[Isaac Anderson]

I think he usually didn't call you pastor. Usually just Jeff.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. But he would make these wild claims, totally unsubstantiated, total loss lies. And, and, and he even one time checked in with me once before. I think it was a couple hours before he had his prepared sermon about me. His whole sermon. He checked in with me to verify something I said. It's not true. It's verifiably false. If you go forth and preach this sermon, you're going to be lying publicly.

[Isaac Anderson]

He does it anyway.

[Interviewer]

He did it anyways, I guess in order to, in order to, in order to, to. To make sure he. He checked the boxes. He said. I reached out to Jeff and I've

[Isaac Anderson]

seen that before with like reporters. We reached out to them for comment and they're like, don't put the comment on. I literally told him, I said reached out and he said, this is categorically false.

[Interviewer]

It's not true. It's false. I can. It's provably false. He did it anyways.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm sure he did.

[Interviewer]

But Isaac, even with that, even with your dad's abuse of me and my wife and my family, even with his lies, I still want him treated justly. And I want you treated justly. I don't want to vilify him. Yeah, well, because.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, even if you're a big. Even if you and him aren't on, it's still not a good thing to find out that his family's getting abused.

[Interviewer]

That's my point.

[Isaac Anderson]

Even if it vindicates you and it makes you look pretty good. But yeah, that's you. I'm sure you'd rather him not.

[Interviewer]

There's no.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, you'd rather. He's not a wife beater and he still hates.

[Interviewer]

There's no rejoicing in this. I don't rejoice over what you guys have had to come out and talk about what you experienced. I don't rejoice over your dad's pain right now. And as. As he's clearly hurting dramatically, it's bad. And I don't rejoice over any of it.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And so I, I just hope that in the midst of something like this, with where it's at in now that people, Christians can pray. Somehow we don't quite know how. How God can bring peace to this. You've. You've expressed, Isaac, how you would like to see this end. You want your, you want your family protected, those. You want your. Your siblings protected. You want him to step down for the good of. Of of his church, for the good of himself. And you've expressed. That's what I, that's what I.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, yeah, the, the problem is, is that everybody that actually cared about my dad, he just got rid of them. His friends of 20 years, gone, gone. Right.

[Interviewer]

His.

[Isaac Anderson]

His own siblings, gone. He's. So he's flipped. All he's left with now is like his yes men. Like, yeah, Chris Seguru doesn't want you to step down because he's. You employ him. And like the guys that, that he employs the church were not making as much in the private sector. So like, they need this. Like, because my dad does pay his employees quite well, probably a lot better than they just Than they need. He's paying them based on like what they need rather than necessarily how much they're worth.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

So obvious. It's like, wow, your own employees want you to keep. Keep going. Yeah, I like if my, if the owner of my company I work at wanted to shut down the company, I'd be like, oh no, man, please don't do that.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Right. Of course I'd say that because, yeah, I don't want to have financial.

[Interviewer]

For sure. Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah. So it's like. And all the friends that actually legitimately, all the people that legitimately cared about him just got cussed out and he wants nothing to do with them. So it's like he doesn't really have any real friends left. All he has left now are the pastors that are leeching off of him for whatever relevance he still has left. Like, whatever popularity they can get by being associated with him.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Because if my dad's on good terms with them, then my dad's fans will like them. But as soon as my dad's not going to invite you over or something, then all those fans are going to immediately pull back support from you. Where I say, like, guys like Shelley or Pastor Mejia or who are the other. He's got. He's got, like, two guys still supporting him. He doesn't even. Does he even have, like. They're all like, guys he ordained. Like, he. He ordained Pastor Me. He ordained Jonathan Shelley. Like, he's. Yeah, he's. He has.

[Interviewer]

And they're still. They're still supporting. They're still behind him, those two.

[Isaac Anderson]

Pastor Mejia doesn't talk about him anymore. Doesn't really say anything.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

He has not condemned, like that. But I think that. I don't think he's. Because he's pretty popular on Instagram these days. I've seen him. I don't. I haven't heard anything about him supporting my dad in, like, at least a year or two. I don't think he's talking. I mean, I could be wrong. I haven't seen much of anything from him, but I haven't seen him supporting my dad much. I'm assuming he just doesn't. It doesn't. Even if he, like, I don't think he condemns my dad, but I think he also doesn't want to, like, publicly support my dad when my dad's pretty preaching about, well, so what if I beat my wife or whatever? It wouldn't even be wrong. He doesn't really want to publicly attach his name to that because I think he's a little bit smarter on these things. Because, like, Jonathan Shelley's like, oh, who cares if it's true? It's just, you know, a matter of preference, like, Indian food or something. Because when this had first happened, because prior to this pastor, he and I were texting quite frequently. We're just sending each other Instagram reels just hanging out, you know, texting. Like, he'd come to. He had visited Phoenix. I took him out to dinner and stuff, and, like, we were hanging out. Then when this happened, he, like, basically got called, called me, and his thing was just, you guys lied about everything. None of it's true. I don't want it. Blah, blah, why are you lying? And this, he just wouldn't even entertain it would not even hear me out. So I was kind of like, dude, like, we've been like texting for like months and like now you're just like, won't even hear, won't even listen, whatever. But at least he was smart enough to not, like, from what I understand his position is that none of it's true. So, like, he won't say, well, if this is true, this is a good, this is totally fine. Because obviously that looks bad. Because this way, if my dad ever does get a, like, actually provably, beyond all shadow of doubt proven like, you know, that he's done these things, he can go, I never endorsed that. Whereas Jonathan Shelley is the one saying, well, so what? It's not that big of a deal. Like, so, yeah, so he's, I think he's just smarter. He's a lot past me, is much smarter than Jonathan Shelley. He's not going to get up. He's not making an idio of himself. By all accounts, he still supports my dad. He's just a little bit quieter because I mean it. Why, like, nobody, like nobody normal is going to want to associate with you if you're supporting my dad. So, so, yeah, I think he's trying to, you know, appeal to a wider audience, at least in that, at least in that category.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

So he supports my dad, but he's not gonna, he's not gonna publicly say that. I don't think beating your wife's a sin or something. At least not that I've seen from him. Maybe he's still doing that, I don't know. But.

[Interviewer]

Well, I'm, I'm thankful for you spending the time and you came here. We're on, we're recording this on Saturday. Yeah. You brought your wife and your son. You came all the way from a far away away.

[Isaac Anderson]

I live in Maricopa. I don't care.

[Interviewer]

It's a long drive.

[Isaac Anderson]

It was like, it was like a 40 minute drive. Wasn't that. It was horrible. But still, I didn't travel from out of state.

[Interviewer]

Still drive on. On a Saturday. Your day off, Your day off.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, I was on college, so I, I just worked. I worked 12 consecutive days and then here I am. Yeah. On my day off.

[Interviewer]

Well, I appreciate it, man. I seriously appreciate it.

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh, I like to talk. So you know anybody who wants to have me on, I just talk to anybody. Yeah, I really, I told him, like, I've off, like, I Think somebody was saying, go on the Baptist bias. I was like, invite me, I'll gladly go on. I'll talk to anybody. I'll talk to anybody about anything. They don't want to talk to me though. And I think part of the reason why is I'm a fairly reasonable guy and it's harder to make me. They, they have a harder time making me look bad because I don't have any piercings, I don't have long hair, I'm married, I've not slept around. I've only ever been with my wife. Right. I'm married, I've got a child, I own a house, I work, I work an honest job. Like I'm not really doing anything bad. And they would be completely fine with me if not for the fact that I'm condemning my dad for what he's done. So. So I don't think they want to give me any air time because it's. Yeah, they, they can't like call me a liberal or a feminist or whatever. I mean they probably do. But yeah, it's harder for them. Like, cuz, you know, hard. Right. Like Jonathan Shelly brings me because Jonathan Shelley tells his church. I don't think he's publicly said it, but he's told. I've heard from multiple people in his church that he tells them I'm actually a reprobate. So if he has me on a show and I'm like, like, oh, this guy's pretty normal and reasonable because also too, they have to lie about what I say because he just on his stupid little show was claiming that I said that I deserved every spanking I ever got. Except for the time my dad stepped on my head every other time, I totally deserved it. I've never said that. And of course, if I was on the show, like, no, dude, I did not say that. I said that I deserved it. Sometimes when I got spanked, obviously it wasn't perfect, but when I lived at home with my parents, I never touched drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, never slept with anybody, never didn't. I wasn't doing anything that bad. Because I think they also talked about, they have something where I said that I'd committed numerous crimes, crimes. And that was kind of stuff somebody said, well, your dad's not been arrested. I said, yeah, I've committed numerous crimes that I've been reported for and guess what? Nothing happened. Cuz yeah, if you get reported for a crime, the cops do not just come kick your door and arrest you. I've been. And that was what I was saying. They're like, oh, he was talking about. And they, I think they were also trying to claim that when I was a kid, when I was talking about was, oh, I'd committed these crimes and my parents gave the option, do you want us to be you or do you want us to call the cops on you? This never happened even once. At no point during my childhood did I do anything that my parents could have called the police on me for at any point time. Nothing. There was nothing I ever did that they could have like turned me into the police for. And I was like, okay, just beat me instead. Don't turn me in. That never happened. They just flat out lied on their show. I saw a clip of it and they were cl. I was like, no, this never happened. The crimes was reported for happen as an adult outside of the house and I was not reported by my parents. And nothing came of it. Because yeah, if somebody just reports you for a crime, nothing comes of that unless there's like a lot of evidence. Look at my parents. They've had CPS at their house over 50 times over the last few years. Over 50 separate instances CPS has come to their house. But my parents know their rights. They know that, that CPS can't come in. They just tell them just to shove off and that's nothing comes of it. The first few times CPS came to parents was they were super freaked out. I remember the first time it happened years ago, probably more than 10 years ago, possibly longer honestly. And they were, they were terrified. They were freaked out because even though they, the first time it happened, somebody like reported my dad, they made like a 911 call and they'd said like, oh, the kids are like getting like raped, something like horrible like that. But was not true with some random person on online. So the CPS showed up my parents house like midnight who just told him like to get lost, like, dude, get out of here. And then my parents were super freaked out because they were worried like, well what else are they going to bust us for? Because you know, if the kids get taken in for that, even though that's not true, right, that was just some random person. If they interview the kids, they might find something else. That my parents were in an absolute panic. They ended up taking like all of us to a doctor. First time I'd ever been to a doctor, at least I could remember or whatever. And they, they take us to a doctor to like give us all a clean bill of health, which obviously like we weren't dying or yeah, of course like the doctor kind of, you know. So like a week or two later they take us all to the doctor like a thing. And they were super freaked out the first time. And then, you know, after, I mean CPS has been in your house 50 times. At some point they just stop getting worried. And then it's also two. CPS is just like these, these government workers. Like when I was there, I was there. One of the times when CPS showed up, this was after I was an adult. CPS showed up and they just send some short haired broad or whatever to just ask my parents and just, you know, someone with a clipboard just check takes, help. Nothing. Just like a. Because they can't do anything. Right. They just go, can we talk to your kids? Nope. Okay, do you want to answer your question? Nope. Like they have no authority.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

And I obviously you. I'm glad that CPS can't just rip somebody's kids away for nothing. I do see these people talk about, oh, CPS took my kids for no reason. Like, no, they did not. It's really hard. The CPS cannot just take your kids.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Isaac Anderson]

That only happens to people who say, sure, talk to my kids. And then their kids tell them a bunch of stuff and then they take your kids.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Isaac Anderson]

Which we. Which had CPS even talk to me as a kid or if they grabbed some of my younger siblings now they're not going to get anything from them. Because we were convinced that the CPS was horrible. Because my parents, they were very. Even when we were very little kids, they would say, if you get like take my cps, you like they would graphically and vividly describe like, you will be raped and stuff horribly like by. In foster care. So like, so we were like terrified of the cps. So like the CPS was scared. We were more scared of them than my parents. We were terrified because we thought the CPS just snatches kids and basically just sells them to get raped or something. Which obviously the foster care system is a disaster and that's a whole separate thing. But we were so like if one of the. If they say grab some of my younger siblings, they would not tell the CPS anything. They'd be terrified. I was terrified of CPS when I was a kid. And also if CPS has been announced 50 times, my siblings know that the CPS can't help them or at least won't help them. And yeah, I've still never talked to law enforcement on any of this stuff. I didn't waste. I think John spent like several Hours talking with cps and they just like didn't even follow up on it because they can't. Yeah, they sent somebody to talk to my parents. My parents go, nuh. And then what do you do?

[Interviewer]

And that's why you're coming out the way that you are.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, yeah, mainly just people. Yeah. I mean, all the answers.

[Interviewer]

Just because I want people to know, people to hear here.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well, yeah, because he has people that follow him and try to emulate him and take his advice. And it's like, well, maybe you should know what this guy is doing. You know, maybe it's not as. Because obviously, of course, my dad's entire brand relies on him being an exemplary figure. Somebody you want. Because I have this thing too where people tell me that I'm not qualified to be a pastor. And it's like, yeah, I know, I know I'm not qualified. I'm not qualified to be a pastor. I don't want to be a pastor. I'm well aware that I'm not qualified. But that's not a problem because I know that. And I'm not trying to be a pastor nor do I claim to be qualified. I never have have. Right. The issue is my dad can't be self aware enough to realize that because obviously most people are not qualified to preach or even you or, or would even be good at it. I'm not nice enough of a guy to be a pastor. I'm not nice enough or caring enough. Like, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not cut out for that. Maybe some people are. I'm not one of them. And that's okay. Yeah, it's totally fine.

[Interviewer]

There's.

[Isaac Anderson]

I mean, I mean, obviously we need a lot more people sitting in the pew than pastors. We don't need nearly as many pastors as just regular Christians. I can be just a normal Christian. I don't have to be a pastor.

[Interviewer]

And, and, and be just as effective for God's kingdom.

[Isaac Anderson]

Yeah, that's the other thing too. My, my dad would keep talking about, oh, they just want to ruin soul winning. It's like, hold on, because here's the problem. My dad seems to believe that every single salvation from his church is exclusively his thing and that without him, none of those people will get saved. That's what. Talking about a quarter million people saved and you're trying to. It's like, how many of those were saved by you personally? Like, are you saying your church members can't go souling without you? Is. It's like. But in, in his Mind, he's so important that the church could not exist or succeed without him personally. So if he got replaced in his. Like this is basically what he's saying, that if he was replaced, the church would just not get anything done. Because he's claiming we're trying to ruin soul winning and ruin a good soul winning church. It's like, no, cuz if you got a new pastor, why couldn't your members just keep soul winning? But it's because my dad is arrogant. He believes that like they can't do it without him, right? No. Nobody gets anything done unless he's doing it. And if you're not part of his close friend group of pastors, you're horrible. Don't get anything done. Like that's. He. He was like slamming Verity and stuff even after Verity broke his eyes. Like. But isn't Verity still a soul winning church? Shouldn't you go, hey, well at least they're getting people saved. But no, no, suddenly it's a horrible den of iniquity or whatever.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well, man, thank you, Isaac. You gave me a lot of time, a lot of heart.

[Isaac Anderson]

I know, I know. I. I know I talk too much too.

[Interviewer]

No, you didn't talk too much. No, I'm saying I'm thankful that you gave me so much time and that you were willing to. To.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm trying to think if there's any of my dad's more recent lies that I need to. Oh yeah, he claims I put. I didn't put him in the nut house. I didn't do that. He said that and he's. He's lying about. About that. Yeah, I didn't. My name was written down on the form by the person who turned him in. And they wrote my name and number down as like a witness. Nobody called.

[Interviewer]

You had nothing to do with it.

[Isaac Anderson]

I didn't know. I didn't write my name on there. I didn't sign it and nobody called me or talked me. Nothing I did got him put in there. Now I did know like an hour or two before he was getting picked up that it was going to happen. I just didn't warn him. I thought it was funny. It's. I still think it's funny. Like I thought it was. I thought it was hilarious. I was like, oh, this would be so funny. I didn't do it. I just thought it was funny that it happened. He's. Of course, he's a total baby. It's. I've worked in those places. They're not that scary. Oh, there's Crazy people yelling. Yelling. That's. I. I think I'm just desensitized to people yelling and screaming in the background because the majority of my life was like that. So it's like, to me, I can tune that out pretty easily. Oh, no, there's some insane person screaming. Okay, ignore them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Like, whenever I have to work those places, I'm always just kind of, you know, keeping an eye on my tools, and that's about it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But your claim is that you did not have anything to do with him.

[Isaac Anderson]

Correct, by the way, Nobody says it is except for my dad. The. The people there told him it was the guy who tournament and his wife that did it. That's what they told him. The name, the form was filled out by that guy. And that guy alone bears my signature nowhere. And it's all in the same. And it's not like I didn't fill the form out. I didn't put my name down. I didn't do any of that. It's like, what if. I mean, what if that guy had written down my dad's name or written down, say, my mom's name as a witness? Because it would only be. I guess I'd be involved if they'd called me, if they'd actually. Because, like, you know, he just left a reference. And nobody called me, though, and asked me. So, yeah, my name, whether or not it was put there, which wasn't even put there by me, makes no difference because they didn't even call me.

[Interviewer]

And in the end, I think a lot, it's. There's so much of the story that's happened today and. And what you've said your claims, and then your father responded and his claims. But about you, I. Dude, I think the most important thing, especially in the age of social media, with all of us having access to the public square 24 hours a day, and anybody's claims coming across is like firming up our commitments to God's standards of justice. Like, don't simply believe something simply because a person claims it well.

[Isaac Anderson]

And if any of my dad's fans are even, I'm sure some of them will be watching. Some of them, like, refuse to watch these. They go out of respect for your father. I'm not watching this. Right. But a lot of them do watch it. If they watching this, isn't it funny how he has not denied any. Any of the specific allegations I've made against him? Not even one. He will say I'm a liar that exaggerated, or he'll try to go on Some random thing about well Isaac's done something else bad or this. He's a bad person. He will not deny any of the specific accusations I've made. He will not. He still hasn't. He hasn't said he hasn't done. Yes even one of them. And I even had this on Twitter. I was going back on the thread like dude, are you gonna. Because my dad as well as this. When Miriam was first run away, he had his church empley Ramon Ventura, who's a church, he's on the payroll. He was having this guy watch my house to see if Miriam was there. Which mir. I did not. I was not aware till after the fact that I was being watched. Miriam was not with me. She was not even in the. She was not even in the state. And he's got a church employee. That's where your tithe money goes. Is paying Ramon Ventura to stalk his son looking for his daughter. That's not even in the state. And then my dad also placed a fraudulent 911 call to the house of my wife's parents, my in laws. He claimed he had seen Miriam in the house which is not possible. Miriam was not in the state. And also there was nobody else even in that house. It wasn't like there was like a teenage girl who looked. Looks like. No, there's nothing. He was just flat out lying. Sends the cops to my in laws house at midnight f. And my dad's still crying and whining about the time he got swatted for years. Which obviously swatting is horrible. It's, it's, it's a horrible crime and should be cracked down on but he's still crying about that. And it's like dude, you're. You're making 911 calls claiming there's a kidnapping victim in the house of my in laws because he's just trying to like terrorize them or something. Trying to try because he can't, he can't rattle me. He's hoping he can try to target my extended family or something. Cause issues there. And he, by the way, he will not deny it. I was going everywhere I go. Are you denying placing 911 call saying that mirror was at my illness. And he's just ignoring and, and he keeps responding these foot long paragraphs about other stuff and I was like you're still not. Are you going to say that you did or didn't? Because he knows he did it and he's worried if he denies, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

Which he's off the hook for that yeah. And of course he's made m. I've had somebody ask me like, oh, he's lying about you. It's like, the problem is I don't have a defamation case against him because, well, my dad's got no motion, basically. So he has. Because part of defamation is you have to prove how it damaged you. Nothing he has said better done about me. Like any of the lies or slander or libel. If it's. If he's posting on Twitter about it. None of his libelous or slander, none of them have affected my life negatively because I have this. Two of his fans, they'll be like, oh, this is all you'll ever be known for is Pastor Anderson. Griffin. I'll go, dude, no. Like, 90 of the people that know me do not even know who my dad is. I don't talk. Like, do you think I talk with co workers and friends about my deadbeat? Of course not. To them, I'm just a normal guy they don't even know. Like, nobody I work with knows anything about my dad or anything about my background. The guys I. The guys I train or live with, none of them know because I don't talk about this.

[Interviewer]

This isn't.

[Isaac Anderson]

This isn't the focus of my life. I'm living my own life now to my dad's like, niche following, because they'll talk about his followers. Like, yeah, dude, you have got a few thousand followers out of like millions of people or billions of people, right? Millions of people in America and stuff. He's got a few thousand followers. Like, yeah, that's not actually that relevant. So, like, he has all these fans, like, they think this is all they'll ever be known for. Or they'll tell me, like, this is all you talk. Talk about. Like, no, it's not. You don't know me. I don't ever talk about this crap unless somebody's asking me about it. But yeah, they're not. They're. My dad won't deny it. Ask my dad if he placed a 911 call to my in laws house. Ask him if he had Ramon. Why don't you ask Ramon Ventura? Ask him. Ask him if he was. Which I don't. I think he had Ramon watch my house because, like, he thought I would maybe recognize him if he was at my house and like, do something. But, like, I know what Ramon looks like. I just didn't see Ramon. I didn't know he was doing till after the fact. Obviously, they quickly realized Miriam was not at the. At my house. So then they're just like next best thing. We'll just send the cops to his in laws house at midnight too. It's not like he placed a non emergency call and said, hey, can you guys maybe come ask around, see if she's there. He places a 911 call and says I saw her and claimed he saw her in the house. Which by the way, that's a crime. She was not even in the state and she had not been in the state. Miriam did not. Miriam would never enter the state of Arizona until after she was 18 years old because they were accusing her of being with me or John On. She never entered. She was not. She was not even in the state. And she was also not with Clint, despite what my dad says. So the day she escaped the hospital, she did not. She was not in South Carolina and she was not in Arizona. She was in a different place. Which I'm not going to say. But yeah, she was not in South Carolina. So he was accusing Clint. Excuse me. None of us had her. I knew where she was the whole time. That's okay. I.

[Interviewer]

It's.

[Isaac Anderson]

It's not a crime to know where she is. They can't prove I aided her in any way despite like they can't prove I did anything illegal on that front, so. Which I'll do. I love to. My dad's like appealing to legality. Like well actually the law says technically it's like, oh, now he wants to feel. I thought he said he doesn't care what the law says about how he spanks his kids or if it's okay to rape your wife. He doesn't care about the law then. But then suddenly actually no, let her the law. She's not 18 for four more months. So you must return. This is kidnapping and stuff suddenly. He's very legalistic about that, but only when it's on his side.

[Interviewer]

And so much of that story that you're telling right now people can view through Miriam's testimony witness, of course, in those original videos.

[Isaac Anderson]

Well I also want people to ask him ask making a. About 911 calls. Cuz I'm. Maybe he tried. I'm sure he'd say, oh, I just made a call and said ask the officers to come check it out. Yeah, no, it was a 911 call place and they showed up like 11:45 at night. Like you great dude. Like, thanks for placing an emergency call to my extended family's house. Because I'm assuming. Because he knows if the cops show up in my house, I'll Be like, dude, get off my porch. Like get lost. Like, I'm not. No, no, you cannot come search my house. Even though I didn't have Miriam with. I just, just on principle, you know, you're not going to let the cops search your house. Else who? Nobody, nobody's that dumb. I, I know a cop. He's like, yeah, never let the cops search anything. He goes, even if he goes, Even if you've done nothing right? Never. There's no, no good comes of it. But yeah, he's like, I am.

[Interviewer]

I.

[Isaac Anderson]

What happened to, to not calling the cops on Christians? Well, by the way, to this day I have still never called the cops on my parents. I have not spoken to law enforcement about my parents ever. He's making false 911 calls against. What do my in laws ever do to him? They didn't make any videos. They didn't slander him. They did nothing. Their crime was being my wife's parents. They're not even like my direct family. Their, their crime is being extended family of mine and he's going to send the cops their house at midnight. So he's extremely, he's, he's a massive hypocrite. He's freaking out about, oh, you know what you, you know that you're calling the cops on Christians and stuff. It's like, well, you did the same. Is he saying my in laws, I guess aren't Christians? I mean they were his church members for years. You think? Yeah, but. And I'm not certain what they ever did to him either. They didn't publicly denounce him or say anything bad about him. They did not nothing bad to him but of course related to me was there was what they were guilty of. And my dad knew Miriam wasn't with them or I mean maybe there's a chance he suspected Miriam was there but he lied and said he saw her there and placed an emergency call which you're not allowed to place an emergency call for, you know, non emergencies. Especially when you're lying.

[Interviewer]

Something is not true. Yeah, it's. Well, I appreciate you man. I'm thankful for you coming in today. Thankful for your testimony. Yeah, we just want to ask everyone who's watching this, nobody should rejoice over this. But also just, just pray.

[Isaac Anderson]

If anybody wants to reach out to me, reach out to me, shoot me a message. I'm pretty easy to find on social media. Just shoot me a message and I'll gladly talk to you. I'm not going to be. If somebody messages me and disagrees, I'M not going to be automatically rude to them or something. I will. I'll happily answer their questions. Or better yet, watch my interviews first, because a lot of these questions I get, I've already answered, like, five other times. It's like, can you. If you watch my interviews and you still have a question, hit me up. I'll gladly talk to you. I'll talk to anybody who I've literally will talk to. To anybody.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'll talk to people who like me, dislike me, neutral, anybody. And I've had a lot of people who reach down. They're all angry, and I talk to the normal. They're like, wait, you're actually. This guy's actually fairly normal, obviously. I know. I'm not. I'm. I'm not claiming to be perfect or anything.

[Interviewer]

Like you said. I, like. You always go fairly normal.

[Isaac Anderson]

Relatively normal. Relatively speaking.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm relatively normal. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. We should all feel it.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm not gonna claim to be 100.

[Interviewer]

We're not all there.

[Isaac Anderson]

But I'm aware that I'm a little bit odd, but I'm not.

[Interviewer]

I'm. I'm basically okay.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm not as crazy crazy as they act like I am. Right, right, right.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, I appreciate you, dude. Thank you so, so much. And, you know, hopefully get to connect some more and.

[Isaac Anderson]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[Interviewer]

Thank you. Thankful again for you taking the time. I know this is, you know, it's your day off. You've been working 12 days in a row.

[Isaac Anderson]

I'm gonna go to Costco after this anyway, while I'm in the area. Yeah, Costco. I. I brought my insulated bags from home. Yeah. I'm not wasting the trip out here.

[Interviewer]

Right on, dude.

[Isaac Anderson]

Costco. Gotta go there. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Good idea, man. Well, thanks, dude. I appreciate you so much, man. Thanks for being here.