576. Muslim Invasion, Rape Gangs, & Riots in the UK: The Biblical Answer

Summary

---

Apologia Radio

Episode Summary: "Muslim Invasion, Rape Gangs, & Riots in the UK: The Biblical Answer"

Date: June 19, 2026

Host: Jeff Durbin (Apologia Radio)
Guests: Nathan Anderson, Andrew Sandlin, Gabe (Producer)

---

Overview

This episode addresses the devastating revelations of mass rape gangs—predominantly Muslim—operating in the UK, the failures of authorities and the justice system, and the recent wave of riots and violence in Northern Ireland. The hosts and guests examine these cultural tragedies through a Biblical and Christian legal perspective, emphasizing the failures of secular, multicultural policies and advocating for a return to Christian principles in law, governance, and society.

Note: Content warning given by the host for extremely graphic descriptions of sexual violence and related injustice. Some details are disturbing.

---

Key Discussion Points & Segments

1. Setting the Scene: Biblical Engagement & Authority

• [01:19] Andrew Sandlin: “If the authorities didn’t want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified Jesus in the public square."
• [01:26] Discussion shifts to the insufficiency of secular ("stardust") worldviews to deal with evil.
• [02:28] Affirmation: "There’s only one way...through Jesus Christ. And the Gospel is about repenting of sin, not celebrating it." – Nathan Anderson

---

2. Introduction to the UK Crisis

• [03:51] Jeff highlights the scale of the crisis: reporting on 250,000+ young white girls victimized, with 87% of rape gang convictions involving Muslim perpetrators.
  • Calls it a "terrible, heartbreaking moment."
  • Links to recent violence in Belfast and the broader societal reaction.

---

3. Rape Gang Inquiry: Survivor Testimonies and Systemic Betrayal

• [08:05-13:14] Rupert Lowe (Reporter) presents graphic parliamentary testimony of survivor accounts from the recent rape gang inquiry.

“Throughout the abuse, the other girls I encountered...were almost exclusively white...I remember a man opening the back of a van and I saw 15-20 girls locked in dog cages.”

“I was raped by probably about six or seven hundred different men over three years.”

“There were men around me, not horrified...but filming and laughing, making bets on whether the dog could actually rape me or not. And yes, I was raped by a dog.” [08:05-13:14, Rupert Lowe]

• Key insights:
  • The authorities ignored and failed to prosecute many offenders.
  • Police and officials sometimes directly participated in or covered up abuse.
  • Racism was a driver: white, often Christian girls targeted for supposed "lack of morals."
  • Whistleblowers silenced; victims left unprotected.

---

4. The Failure of Law, Two-Tier Policing & Societal Chaos

• [16:10] Nathan Anderson summarizes the feeling in the UK: "Coming to the point of breaking.”

  • Government, police, and media culpability: lawlessness starts "at the top."
  • Immigration policy failures have created parallel legal systems; authorities are failing to enforce just law.

• [20:54] Horrific recent incident in Belfast: attempted beheading by a Sudanese immigrant.

• [27:23] Andrew Sandlin: “The greatest need of Britain right now...is a true religious revival...a return to the law of God as biblically was the case under Josiah and at other times.”
  – Also critiques the “fallacy” of multicultural relativism and calls for intolerance against “that form of intolerance.”

---

5. The Biblical Principle: One Law for All

• [21:46, 27:23] Sandlin develops the Biblical context:
  • Mosaic law distinguished between sojourners who assimilated and those who remained apart.
  • “The abandonment of biblical law eventually leads to a full-scale antinomianism against even British law and American law.”
• There must be “one law” – impartial, applying to native and foreigner alike.
• Connection drawn between the erosion of Christian foundations and the rise of “two-tier” policing—preferential, prejudiced, and unjust.

---

6. Two-Tiered Justice in Action: The Henry Novak Case

• [42:10+]
  • Narrative of Henry Novak, a white British man fatally stabbed by a Sikh man; police first treat Novak as the aggressor following racial abuse allegations against him.
  • [47:31] “All police have to go through equality training...so when somebody says to a white person ‘you’re a racist’ or ‘you racially abused me,’ they’re the one firstly treated as the criminal.” – Nathan Anderson
  • Wider public outrage at the police and governmental response.

---

7. Riots & Community Backlash

• [53:31+] Clip of public outrage aired; deep anger at government failure.

  “What else have people got to do? The political class are not listening...These people who are coming over here illegally, they're rapists, terrorists...You are giving them a target rich environment. You haven’t vetted them, you’ve done nothing.” – Caller/Listener

• [55:43] Anderson explores how working-class British communities uniquely bear the brunt of these problems—loss of community, cultural displacement, and direct exposure to lawlessness.

  • Churches accused of being aloof and out-of-touch (“quite middle class”).
  • Immigrants not all to blame, but “middle-class” Christian responses often lack awareness of the real, local cost.

---

8. A Biblical Call to Action and Self-Defense

• [66:22] Co-host: “At what point, right, if the government is betraying you...is it biblically justified then to take a defensive posture to defend your property and your loved ones?”
• [67:16] Anderson cautions against vigilante justice, referencing the Troubles in Northern Ireland and their cost: “These things take on a world of their own...”
• Advocates instead:
  • Legal action: vote out corrupt and lawless officials.
  • Societal reconstruction based on Christian worldview.
  • Churches must provide leadership to prevent more dangerous alternatives from rising.

  “We have only two choices: Islam or Christianity. I want to say to the church...it's time to return to the God of the Word and the Word of God...in every area of life, including immigration.” – Nathan Anderson [70:32]

---

9. What Can Listeners Do?

• [71:01+] Americans can pressure their representatives to stop funding activist groups that undermine Christian culture in Europe.
• [73:36] Anderson provides background on how Northern Ireland’s political system is structured and expresses the need for change at the Westminster level, as most control over immigration remains with Parliament.

---

10. Final Thoughts: Hope, Political Change, and the Future

• [78:18+] Discussion of upcoming by-election; mixed hope for change.
• [80:49] European Union’s recent strict migration law is mentioned, but Anderson notes globalist agendas remain at play and nations must be allowed to exist as distinct entities.

“The Bible doesn’t say that other races cannot live in a nation, but it does say that nations exist. And it does celebrate nations and God created those nations. So it’s important that those nations continue.” – Nathan Anderson [82:45]

---

Notable Quotes

• Andrew Sandlin [21:46]:
  “It’s the inevitable consequence of the abandonment of the Bible and specifically biblical law to people who think the Bible doesn’t have answers for these issues... The abandonment of biblical law eventually leads to a full scale antinomianism against even British law and American law. This is the price of antinomianism that we’re seeing.”

• Nathan Anderson [66:22]:
  “We have only two choices: Islam or Christianity. I want to say to the church...it's time to return to the God of the Word and the Word of God and we need to get back to the word of God in every area of life, including immigration.”

• Caller/Listener on public anger [53:48]:
  “What else have people got to do? They're not listening. The political class are not listening. These people who are coming over here illegally, they're rapists, terrorists... All you've done is dump them in a place where they can wreak havoc.”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [08:05-13:14] – Rupert Lowe reads survivor testimony
• [14:41] – Discussion of police/gov’t failure in prosecuting abuse
• [16:10] – Nathan Anderson: “Point of breaking” in the UK
• [21:46] – Sandlin: Consequences of abandoning Biblical law
• [42:10] – The Henry Novak stabbing and two-tier policing
• [53:31] – Riots, caller expresses public anger
• [55:43] – Anderson: working vs. middle class community impact
• [66:22] – When is self-defense / defensive posture justified?
• [70:32] – Anderson: “Return to God of the Word... Church leadership needed”
• [78:18] – Political prospects for change

---

Episode Tone & Language

• Urgent, mournful, and unflinching in describing horrors and societal decay
• Christian foundation: law, justice, redemption, and hope through Biblical principles
• Candid about both failures of secular leadership and dangers in vigilante backlash
• Appeals to both UK and US Christian communities for action and solidarity

---

Conclusion

The episode is a call to realism—refusing to sanitize the evil being wrought, but demanding honest, Biblical, and lawful responses from Christians and leaders. The guests argue that without the return to Christian moral and legal principles, societies once shaped by the Bible will continue to descend into chaos, injustice, and violence.

---

Transcript

[Dominion Wealth Representative]

For most people, their finances aren't one big problem. It's a hundred small ones. A retirement account from a job five years ago. A budget that lives in your head but never on paper. Life insurance that you meant to look into. A will half finished or not even started. And the longer you leave those loose ends untied, the harder it becomes to move forward with peace of mind. At Dominion wealth, we walk with you step by step to help you tie it all together. We meet you where you are. We listen. We get your financial picture out of your head and into practice. Then we build a strategy to meet your needs. Now, prepare for your future and bless the next generation. We don't pressure you. We give biblical, honest guidance. Let the strategy follow your values and help find the right solutions. If your financial path feels uncertain, let's get together one on one and get you on the right track. Book a free consultation today. We are here to help you get your finances in order so you can feel confident about the future. From baptism to burial. Dominion's got you covered. You can find us at Reform Money.

[Andrew Sandlin]

I would say if the authorities didn't want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified Jesus in the public square.

[Nathan Anderson]

Use humanistic principles. Same idea, same end, I would say.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

What's the problem with stardust?

[Nathan Anderson]

Bumping into stardust in the cosmic picture? No, there's no problem in the cosmic picture.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

It won't matter.

[Nathan Anderson]

No, Mr. President, you are not protecting reproductive freedom. You are authorizing the destruction of freedom for one million little human beings every year. I'm sorry, my friends, but I am tired seeing Jesus presented as a weak beggar. He is a powerful savior. And the Gospel is not a suggestion. It is a command.

[Andrew Sandlin]

Reverend, don't you sympathize with that?

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

I sympathize with every single human heart

[Nathan Anderson]

wishing to know the one true and living God. But I believe there's only one way that that can happen.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Through Jesus Christ. And the Gospel is about repenting of

[Nathan Anderson]

sin, not celebrating it. Right now you're on the threshold of an amazing adventure.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

We will explore the spiritual abyss. You have not experienced this before.

[Rupert Lowe (Reporter)]

You're going to love it.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Many of my persecutors and my adversaries. But I do not swerve from your testimonies. I look at the faithless with disgust because they do not keep your commands. Consider how I love your precepts. Give me life according to your steadfast love. The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures Forever. There's really just no way out of that, is there?

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Luke?

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Nope.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Theonomy.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

No way out.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

What are you gonna do with that? Psalm 119. It's just in your Bible and read the whole thing. I mean, it'll take you a little while. Psalm 119. All about God's law, the blessing of God's law and God's pries, precepts. Every one of your righteous rules endures forever. What's up everybody? This is Apologia Radio, the gospel heard around the world. So grateful you joined us. I'm Jeff, the Coleman ninja. That's the bear right there.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

What up?

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

You can get more at apologiastudios.com that's a P O L O G-I a apologia studios.com please do go to apologiastudios.com get a hold of all the past episodes of Apologia Radio. Cultists Shiologians provoked. Everything is there for your listening pleasure and also if you can today sign up for all access. We have so much more coming for you right now. New tools being added, new programs, everything is coming to Apologia Studios. Sign up for all access. You make everything we do possible. So if you've benefited from the evangelism videos, the on the street ministry, the public debates, a teaching ministry of Apologia, go [e-mail] get all access. We have more coming for you, including this month. I want to inform you guys, this month we have Bonson U and we have a very special live event happening for Bonsen U and that is with our buddy, our good friend, the man we love, Eli Ayala. He's going to be doing something for bonds and you. June 29, 8:00pm Eastern Live Q and A with with Eli. Super grateful for that. Only on all access. And so sign up for all access. We're going to have more stuff just like that coming. And that brings me also to one more thing before we get started today. Go to apologiastudios.com give help us to get to our funding goal first fundraiser for fundraiser for Apolog Studios. In our history like this we are upgrading everything with the programs, with the engagement, cultural engagement, new tools for the website, new programs, upgrades to everything, tools, app, all that is coming for you guys. So help us get there. Apologyostudios.com give again. If you've benefited from this ministry, if this ministry is a blessing to you and your family and to your church, help us to get to that funding goal, we want to have a dramatic impact on, on the world for the Kingdom of Christ. And so get us there as quickly as possible. Help us to get there so we can get to work and add all these things for you. All right, so important moment we're in right now for sure. Not sure if many of you guys got to see the Babylon, not the Babylon be not the bee. Their news, their news side shared yesterday. The official rape gang report is here. Nothing can prepare you for it. And let me tell you, if you haven't seen it, you need to go read that. It's on. Not the be. It is horrific. 250,000 young white girls, 87% of rape game convictions, distinctively Muslim names. The betrayal was total. And so this is a, it's a, it's a, it's a terrible moment that we are in for sure. Heartbreaking things, disturbing things. So we're going to play some of the details from Rupert Lowe's report on this in a moment. And we're also going to talk about the incident that happens or occurred in Belfast. We have so many Christian Christians that we love in churches that we love and we've served in Northern Ireland, in the Republic of Ireland. And so we love that. We love those countries. We love these people. And so it's heartbreaking to see that. And so we're also joined by Nathan Anderson today. Andrew Sandlin. Gentlemen, welcome to the program.

[Andrew Sandlin]

Thanks for having me, guys.

[Nathan Anderson]

Thanks very much, brother.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Oh, and you know, having you on just for that delicious accent makes it all, all worth it, Nathan. All right, so let's we so much to go through. I know Andrew has limited time today, but we want to get some of his wisdom on this. Let's go ahead and play if we could, guys. Let's open up with the report. This is Rupert Lowe. He dropped on his ex account in Parliament reading the testimonies of rape gang survivors provided to our inquiry. I want to forewarn you, I want to forewarn you about this episode. We are going to be talking about things on this episode that are probably too heavy to carry for your children. And so I strongly advise you and urge you to turn it down. Make sure your children aren't hearing this on full blast. This is not something your children need to listen to. And so we're going to go ahead and play through this. That's just your warning. Please do not play this episode in front of young children again. The. The subject matter and the content is just too heavy for them to care Carry. And so here we go. Let's jump right into hearing some of this report.

[Rupert Lowe (Reporter)]

Who signed the petition to make this debate possible? And I want to welcome these brave survivors who are sitting behind us in the hall. This debate is about them, as you quite rightly say. It's not about politics. I want the world to hear what we heard during the two weeks of our independent rape gang inquiry hearings, an inquiry that should never have needed to happen. I sincerely urge this parliament to listen to the testimonies from these brave survivors and to act. To finally act. So the first testimony he took his pants down, penetrated me, had sex with me. He then stopped before ejaculation. He picked up the bottle of Jack Daniels, which was now empty, and he forced it up inside me. He broke the glass while he was there. At that point I was about 12, nearly 13. Another testimony I was held down by the men as they each took turns to orally and vaginally rape me, taking it in turns to pin down my arms and my legs. When the assault ended, the men hit me repeatedly, threatened to find me, kill me and harmed my loved ones if I ever told anybody what had happened. Another Comments were constantly made suggesting that white girls, the Christian girls, were viewed as having fewer morals or lower values, whereas Muslim girls were described by some of the men as having dignity and higher moral standing. These comparisons were used to justify the way I was treated and to further humiliate and control me. Another she was a white woman herself who I imagine may have been groomed and has obviously now married into the family, shouting obscenities at us. Throughout the whole sentencing, she was constantly saying, fucking liars, lying white bitches. She said to me that God will be the witness for what happens to me. Race did play a part and motivated the selection or demographic of the victims. Throughout my exploitation, the other girls I encountered or who were abused alongside me were almost exclusively white. Another she had a baby by him and his dad was an imam. His dad knew and he got his son married and said that he wasn't allowed to see the child. They look after their own community. Another over the course of the abuse, I was raped by multiple police officers in different parts of the country. Another he put a cigarette out on the baby's face. Another it started when I was 13. I was raped by probably about six or seven hundred different men over three years. Another they would toot the horn of the car and then a child would be taken to the front door by a staff member of the children's home. I was bleeding from both my vagina and my back passage and was so swollen I could not sit down. I told hospital staff my drink had been spiked and I did not know what had happened because I was too afraid to tell the truth. They did not ask any questions. They gave me tablets and discharged me. I was 15 years old. Another things would escalate around Eid and holidays. Parties got bigger, got worse, got more violent, people, more people involved, more girls involved. The parties were just bigger. Another the main clash that I kind of had with the religion side of it was I grew up as a Christian. I would wear my cross because it was something really special to me. It was just used as a way to break me down. They said, where is your God now? Has your God forsaken you? Another it was all of the white girls in every home that I went to. I remember a man opening the back of a van and I saw 15, 20 girls locked in dog cages. Another dogs were brought in and I couldn't move at all. I had nowhere to move. I think that was the scariest thing, was not having any concept of it. There were men around me, not horrified, not disgusted, not helping, but filming and laughing, making bets on whether the dog could actually rape me or not. And yes, I was raped by a dog. The man just held my face, stared me down straight in the eyes and he wanted to see me break and he did.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

So I'm not gonna sanitize any of that. I know that that's an assault on your mind and your heart and it is horrific and abominable. But these are injustices and evils that have to be addressed and we have to put it in the light, expose the darkness and expose the wickedness. And I'm not going to sanitize it. I'm. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to help these men hide these sorts of things. And so you're going to get it full strength. So just quickly here from the report from not the be first point. The number of raped and trafficked British girls is in the hundreds of thousands. Uh, from the report. The scale of the crimes committed is staggering. It has been previously established that at the very least, at the very least 250,000 young white girls have been subjected to repeated rape, gang rape, trafficking, torture, pregnancy forces lamic conversion and lifelong trauma. The true number is probably higher. Number two, the attackers are overwhelmingly Muslim foreigners. From the report, in court records and Official inquiries around 87% of these convict convicted in these group based child sexual exploitation cases bore distinctively Muslim names. The vast majority of men involved in these gangs were not convicted. And next third, one thing to note

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

about that percentage of convictions is that they were purposely not going after Muslims.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Purposely not going after Muslims.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

So the rate of Muslims is probably far higher.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Yeah, Gabe, I'd love you to participate in this. Turn your mic up a little bit. It's kind of low. The problem, number three, the problem is geographically widespread affecting all corners of the nation. And four, the rape gang started more than 50 years ago. Five, authorities purposefully and willfully ignored the mass abuse. That's the accusation. And six, victim testimony is overwhelming, as you just heard. And number seven, the whistleblowers were silenced and threatened with seizure of their assets and their careers. And so that's, that's the report again, I, I highly encourage you. It's horrible to think about and to, to view of course, but go ch that article from not the be it's on their Facebook page and across their social media platforms. All that is there. You can watch the original video there of what took place before Parliament. Rupert Lowe. But I, I, so we're going to start there, we're going to talk about the Belfast thing here. But let me just start, let me do go first to Nathan and then to Andrew. Nathan, what are you feeling right now? What are the, what are the people in the UK feeling right now? What are the churches feeling right right now? And as a result of of course this report coming out, things you already knew that were happening in the UK and then also what occurred recently in Belfast and like to turn after that to, to Andrew.

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, thank you guys. Look, Northern Ireland is, and the people of the UK are coming to the point of breaking, I think what is, what we saw, what is being ignored and consistently being ignored is the problem of immigration.

[Caller or Listener]

Right.

[Nathan Anderson]

It's, it's just being swept under the carpet. And I suppose the way I see it is that we have a certain cycle of lawlessness and it starts at the top. It starts with the government which is not upholding the law in terms of, as we see here, the got the local governments were local governance was not upholding the law. We're seeing a failure to police borders which then creates tension on the ground. A police force that is apparently two tiered. And then people are then saying this is unjust. Some people are lashing out lawlessness again. And then the media focuses on the riots but not the cause of the riots and then throws money at pro immigration groups and you know, to try and camp, to sort of have a Peace saving approach and you know, let's have good, good relations between the, the different races and communities and then it goes quiet for a time and then something else happens and the cycle continues. So there's the cycle of lawlessness. And until the law bearer takes up the, the sword of justice and applies that from its own, applies it in law and applies it then directly through unjustly and impartially throughout the whole system, the cycle of lawlessness is going to continue. Now, in terms of the church, I think what is sad is that the churches were very vocal at coming out against the riots, which I think, you know, look, none of us are for rioting, we're for law and order. And a lot of the people who are rioting were ultimately only wrecking their own communities. But the fact is we had somebody who was beheaded attend or nearly beheaded in this country, you know, by somebody who was, came from Sudan, got on a plane to, sorry, got, got to Paris, managed to get to Dublin and then went to Northern Ireland. And then all of a sudden what happens? We're told that this guy was. His immigration status, according to what GB News was reporting, was progressed at a far faster rate than it should have. Now for me, my wife's from America, she's from California. For the first year of our marriage we were apart because she went legally through the system and there was one bit of evidence that was incorrect and lo and behold, for the first year of marriage I couldn't get out to you guys in America and see my wife and she couldn't get out here either. So when you've gone through the process legally and you see people who are coming from Sudan and they're given special privileges, it's fair to say that there's two tier. And, and I think when we see the horror, the absolute horror of that report from Rupert Lew and why the government itself didn't bring this forward, I think people are rightly indignant against the lawlessness that we're seeing from the government.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

And so just for everyone to see it and just go ahead and play it now, this is horrifying. I'm not going to play the whole thing, but you need to see it not going to sanitize any of this because Christians, I think, need to have a biblical response and a meaningful, passionate, real biblical response to this. A church in Ireland needs to rise up. The church all over the UK needs to rise up and, and give to these, give to these governments the law of God and the rules and statutes of God to, to turn this Sort of evil away. And here's a video again, please, if you have children, do not play this in front of your children. And I want to warn you that. What about your watch? What you're about to watch is horrifying. But I'm going to play it so you get a feel for why there is. There's such a reaction all over the UK right now. Here we go.

[Nathan Anderson]

He still killed him. Hurry up. No, he's not. Yeah, get off him, you rat.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

Yeah,

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

this is where he's trying to behead him. Horrific scene. And that is what of course, Belfast ablaze. So, Dr. Sandlin, you are known for your stance on the authority of scripture, God's law. You've preached and you've taught on this, you've written on this. What are the first thoughts that come to your mind, Dr. Sandlin, when you, you see this sort of chaos and darkness in what were once Christian nations? What are the first thoughts that come to your mind? What do you feel like? We need to be communicating, ministers of the Gospel need to be communicating to face this evil down and ultimately bring light and blessing and peace and healing to these nations. What are the, what are the first thoughts that come to your mind, brother?

[Andrew Sandlin]

Well, it's the inevitable consequence of the abandonment of the Bible and specifically biblical law to people who think the Bible doesn't have answers for these issues. And I don't mean merely the rape which obviously is horrific and the political cover up which is almost as horrific. I mean that the Bible establishes truths and principles about the issue of immigration. We see that in the ancient Commonwealth of Israel. And no, as our opponents like to say, we're not saying that the United States or England is precisely identical to ancient Israel. But the Bible does contain basic legal principles. We should be operating by. Here's one that many people don't know. There are two different Hebrew words in the Old Testament to refer to foreigners who lived within ancient Israel. One referred to those who had come in bow themselves to the Lord, to the Lord God Jehovah and who operated according to this law based society and were willing participants. And the others are what we would just call today, resident aliens. They just happened to be there. There you see a specific distinction because between what we today would call legal and illegal immigration. And I would say it had nothing to do with race. Of course, we've just heard these horrific testimonies and the racism against whites. And of course it can happen the other way. Racism is a very, very old sin. But the Bible does establish these categories. It is clear that the foundational basis of immigration of any nation is religious, whether they acknowledge it or not. And in the United States today, though it was not founded explicitly as a Christian nation, England was certainly developed into a, into a Christian nation with a Magna Carta and so on. There should be religious principles for immigration. I don't mean everybody has to affirm Christianity or affirm the orthodox faith to be a citizen, but they must affirm these basics. And of course, as the article and notthe be pointed out, this, this massive immigration really began, the doors were open in 1948 but radically accelerated under Tony Blair, his administration. It was at that time that he was widely quoted in the press. And I do remember this. I don't have the quote right in front of me, but this is very similar to what he said. He said, we're going to rub these old Britishers face. We're going to rub their nose. He said their face or their nose in open borders and multiculturalism. Well, this is what you get when you no longer have a religious premise for immigration, when you no longer have a basis of the rule of law. So, and notice carefully guys, it's not simply the abandonment of biblical law. The abandonment of biblical law eventually leads to a full scale antinomianism against even British law and American law. This is the price of antinomianism that we're seeing. And to people who say that well, this couldn't happen, for example, in the United States, they're dead wrong. Because once you abandon God's law, including his law for immigration, once you abandon God's law, then the, the dike is opened and you have no barrier at all to this kind of goddess reprehensible behavior.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

So sorry, Jeff is actually going to have to go. He's having a small emergency at home. Nothing too crazy, but I will take over from here. Thank you brother. That was excellent. We're actually going to go to break real quick. This is a good, good, good place to take a break and hear from one of our sponsors. We'll be back here just in about a minute or two and we'll continue the conversation.

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

This episode's brought to you by ion [e-mail] Go and check out the health benefits, the wellness benefits and longevity benefits of NAD treatments. NAD is nicknamed the Fountain of Youth for a reason. You have an abundance of this in your system when you're young. As you get older, it drops off. And now we found a way to get NAD into our systems. They do it through IV treatments, but they're very Expensive and it's also extremely painful and difficult. However, Ion Layer found a way to get a high dose of NAD into your system through a medical patch you wear on your arm. You wear it for about 14 hours, you get a high dose of NAD treatment into your system and no pain at all. And it is a fraction of the cost of what you would pay through for an IV treatment. In the coupon code, type in Apologia in all caps. They're going to hook you up with a great disc discount for an already amazingly cost effective product. And they bless Apologia studios and help us to stay on the air and do all these programs with you. Don't forget. Also, Ion Layer has added a glutathione patch as well. Glutathione, the master antioxidant. Go check out the health benefits of glutathione. I'm doing this stuff anyways. It's blessed my life in tremendous ways. And so if you want to focus on your health, wellness and longevity, nothing better in my mind than ionlayer.com for your NAD and Glutathione treatments. Ionlayer.com don't forget to put Apologia in all caps in the coupon code.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Welcome back everyone to this very important conversation. So Pastor Jeff's okay. Just have ways to see people asking small embarrassing at home but everyone seems to be okay. So thank you for your concern. So Andrew. Well, I know Andrew only has a. Have a little bit of time left with us so I'll, we'll pick back up and I told him I'd let him add whatever commentary he'd like to add before we leave and then I'll finish the show with Nathan.

[Andrew Sandlin]

Yeah, as Nathan indicated and thank you so much for that account, Nathan. The, the pushback and the public protests against this unimaginable. I mean it's difficult to get our mind around it when we listen to it. This horror. That's understandable, but that's not the ultimate solution to the problem. Great Britain and the United States must return to their Christian roots and politicians must recognize their responsibility to enforce the law of God for, well, almost certainly 1700, what, 16. 1700 years. Islam has been using the threat of the power of the sword to get its way. And multiculturalism and the whole progressive notion that we dare not hold anybody accountable because of their cultural mores or their cultural history and that all cultures essentially are equal and should be treated equally. That of course is utter fallacy. And it's that sort of oddly relativism under the guise of tolerance that leads to this intolerance and rape. That's the irony. There must be a form of intolerance against that form of intolerance. And that happens of course, in biblical law and the Christian faith. So the greatest need of Britain right now and the greatest need of the United States is a true religious revival. And I don't mean having an evangelist in and preaching for a week. I mean a revival and a return to the law of God as biblically was the case under Josiah and at other times that is the only hope in this situation. And if I were a British politician and Nathan, you're in a position perhaps to influence them, press them hard on their responsibility to enforce the law. First, of course, to unbelievers, you could take just basic British, British law and of course fundamentally biblical law in which it should be based. Other than that, there is no hope.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Amen, brother. Thank you so much. Well, how much longer you got with us, Andrew?

[Andrew Sandlin]

Maybe. Oh, about five minutes.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay, cool. Okay, so I'll just say I was just looking, I was trying to remember, I mean, the first time. Nathan's going to get into the two tier policing conversation in a minute. But Gabe, I'm not. My computer's not connected so I can't play that unless you can play it. Sorry, Jeff just brought with the computer. So. So, I mean I was looking, I think 2017 was the first I had been out to Ireland, so we've been there quite a few times. That's how got to know Nathan. And it's crazy to me how fast things have just gone off the rails, specifically Northern Ireland, because, you know, Northern Ireland is part of the uk, but they have their own government. And the UK came in a few years ago and basically said was, I think it was like, was that 22, I think Nathan, they came in, basically

[Nathan Anderson]

said like it was 2020. It was, it was brought in 2019, the act, it was ratified in 2020 and then abortion was decriminalized.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

That's right, yeah, yeah. So the UK just came in and said, oh, you're, you're no longer. We're going to tell you how to do things here. And I was always encouraged by guys like Nathan and just how overtly Christian Northern Ireland is. And just I always kind of joke that there's little Covenant or Presbyterian churches every corner. Like we have Starbucks here and just amazing. And they're going, we don't want this. This is not what we voted then. No, we, you know, and UK's like, nope, you're going to do what we say. We're calling the shots now and just how rapidly. So that's six years. How rapidly things have declined to where you're at now and the things you're dealing with. You know, I've been talking to some of my other friends in Northern Ireland just you know, not feeling safe taking their kids to the park because there's Muslim men there watching their children. Like it's just, it's, it's unfathomable to me. So Nathan, I guess if maybe you could talk about that. Just experiencing that and, and getting, we can get into this attack a little bit as well. But I'd just love to hear your thoughts on that.

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, look, I, I think I'm really thankful for what Andrew said about, you know, we have to base our legal systems on something. And as he rightly stated, we in Northern Ireland, we in the UK built

[Andrew Sandlin]

our,

[Nathan Anderson]

our state on from, from Alfred the Great all. And in Northern Ireland, it was from St. Patrick. Our legal system was based on Christian principles, Biblical principles. You have a look at say what happened in 2022. There was a rule that was brought in on buffer zones that yeah you know, you weren't allowed to influence around abortion clinics. And by the way, that's every hospital. And Pastor Clive, he preached John 3:16 without referring to abortion which demonstrates that this. And then he was summarily brought to court and has been convicted. So he's convicted criminal conviction for preaching John 3:16 for God so love the world that whosoever believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Yet if you what happened a couple of weeks ago where people, Muslims and people from other faiths were having a festival and celebrations in public parks with knives and that the police did not invest, certain police departments were not, were refusing to act or investigate that. So we have a situation where we see policing of, of a pastor preaching John 3:16 was criminal and somebody waving knives about in the context of Henry Novak and that was. Okay, so we see that dual purpose of law, the two tiered policing, you know, and, and I think what, what you say is right. Northern Ireland is the most Christian part of the UK without a shadow of a doubt. But the secularism is coming straight from, from Westminster in London and it's being forced on us against our will.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I guess if you can just bring us into and I'll, I'll play that video we're talking about here in a minute. I'm sorry, we're just hooking my computer. Was Nathan's talking here. Could you maybe just bring us in so we don't have to show the rest of video because it's awful. But bring us into that, that situation a little bit like what happened. Obviously we know a Muslim man tried to behead somebody, but there's a lot more context and information that's important to that conversation.

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, I think what, I'm a bit cautious about this because this is a live case as it's a life case. It's currently being investigated by the police.

[Andrew Sandlin]

Okay.

[Nathan Anderson]

And, but what I can say is it's, you know, there's, so there's the context before that a lot of people are not sure of just yet. And, and hopefully this man will be brought to justice. So I don't want to get in the way of that judicial. Because he needs to be brought to justice.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Understood.

[Nathan Anderson]

Effectively. So. But what I can say is that I think there is a wider context that maybe we could talk about Northern Ireland, sorry, the UK over the past, since 2020. Now, Andrew was absolutely right that immigration sped up in 1997. But in 2020, after Covid, we saw an increase in immigration that we'd never seen before. Year on year, we were talking about 900,000 in the first year. Then there was 1.2 million. In the second year, I think it was 21, 22, 23. It was around a million as well. And last year, 2025, it was, you know, close to a million. Nine, 830, 13,000. So when. And, and already in this part of the year we've got 200,000. So what we're seeing in this country is around 5 million people.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

Have come into this country in the past five years alone. Now, for the United States, 5 million is bad, but with a country of 320 million. But in a country of 70 million, that's quite sizable.

[Caller or Listener]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

And I looked and I looked at the stats. There is 13 million people in the United Kingdom today that are foreign born, that were not born in this country. Now some of those people, you know, will maybe be people who were born, you know, military personnel whose children will have been born and you know, bases. But the majority of that is going to be first generation immigrants. But in the Republic of Ireland, it's even worse. It's between, it's about 23%. Almost a quarter of everyone in the Republic of Ireland was not born in Ireland. And there's parties out there like Sinn Fein who proclaim that they're Irish and support Irish language. But don't be shavu. These People are not for Irishness. They do not care about the Irish people, and they're quite happy to see their nation transformed. And I want to say this. I know so many people in America are from Irish descent, Ulster Scots descent, English descent, Scots and Welsh descent. The. The countries that your ancestors left, you would not recognize. You would not. They would not recognize. And they would mourn for their country. What they saw. It's become

[Co-host or Guest Host]

so sad. Okay, so, well, I was gonna say, I've heard, because I have friends in Dublin, obviously, as well, and, and I've heard that Dublin is far worse, like you were just saying. Like, I mean, from my understanding, they're just taking over the city center area where the capital's at, and it's just not even safe hardly to walk there, from what I'm being told. So. Just insane. It's just the, like I said, the, the, the rate of demise in the last few years is just. It's utterly astonishing, though, to witness. Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna play this video real quick here. So this is the arrest, correct? Gabe. I'm sorry, Gabe, why don't, why don't you explain what this video is? Because I haven't seen it.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

So prior to the attempted beheading, one of the things that was causing a lot of controversy was this the arrest of. Or the murder and arrest of Henry Nowak. So the context is that these. A Sikh family called the police and said they've been racially abused. And the police arrived and that's what's happening in the video.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay, so I'll play this and then, Nathan, if you're comfortable talking about this a little bit and just bring us into this, what you mean by the two tier police system? This is just a few minutes long here.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

He keeps dropping side to side. So I'm just trying to keep him set up.

[Nathan Anderson]

He's got a mouth full of blood.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

I don't want him. He was on the bin on the other side of this. He's jumped over these fences and stuff like that. And he's obviously, he's obviously, he's fallen

[Rupert Lowe (Reporter)]

from there and he slipped from there.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

There's all the shoes that throw them, mate. What's your name, mate? Huh? Has anyone been hurt other than him?

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

Yeah, me grandma brother.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

He took my turban off, started grabbing my head. Are you injured?

[Rupert Lowe (Reporter)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

I got swollen eye, little bruise. All right, just step back a little bit for me. Someone flagged these down. All right, let's get you out of there, shall we?

[Nathan Anderson]

I was in and stabbed

[Jeff (Host of Apologia Radio)]

his other arm.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

What's happened to you? Right, you've been stabbed. Whereabouts? Don't think you have, mate. Put the hand in the cuff, mate. In the face. Oh no, but we have to check, don't we? In the face. Just get these back off. Get their details and that. I'll keep hold of them. Keep you on your side, mate. Got a redrif then. Same to him, keeping him on his side. We were set up when we had him in, but he didn't like it. What's your name, mate? At the moment you are under arrest. That's for assault. So you do not have to say anything may harm in defense if you do not major my own questions. So I'll talk to you later line of court. Anything you do say maybe given an evidence. Right. It's gonna be sick I think. Want you to call it.

[Nathan Anderson]

Yeah, we've got this male, he's been beat up.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

Are we able to get an ambulance please? People aren't even reacting yet.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay, so. So this is the video that I guess that's caused a lot of. Started a lot of the outreach. So Nathan, could you just maybe like I said kind of bring us into the situation. What's going on here and why has this been such an issue? And then let's talk about the two tier policing.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

So what we have here is we have a guy called Henry Novak. No, this the crime has. The criminal has been convicted. So I'm much more at liberty. Talk about this. So what happened was Henry Novak was heading home from a night out and somehow he got into an altercation with Mr. Digva who is a Sikh and his. He held a ceremonial knife and proceeded to stab Henry Novak. Now what then happened was his brother, who by the way has been not been charged for the. The crime of perverting the course of justice. And you'll see why this is important. Now his brother also was caught wielding a sword in a online in some car traffic dispute. Now remember this, this is the UK that doesn't permit guns, doesn't permit swords, you know, doesn't permit the brandishing of offensive weapons. We have, we have a different system to yourselves in terms of use of the right to bear arms. But we're not going to discuss that today. What we are able to discuss however is the fact that so this. His brother then called the police and said my brother was racially abused. And so Henry Novak is fine then lying in the car park of the house of Mr. Digua and his. He's saying oh I was racially abused. He knocked off my turban. Meanwhile, Mr. Novak, Henry is lying there dying close to death and, and he's saying he's almost sorry, semi unconscious and he says to the police, I'm stabbed the policeman. And the police had already been primed to be told that he was the aggressor. Not only is he the aggressor, but he was the aggressor in a racial context, racialized context. As a result of that. Then the policeman goes over and says I don't think you are mate. So his despite the man lying there, despite the procedures and protocols being you should invest if somebody says they're stabbed. Policing protocols say you must first investigate. There's a very specific process because somebody that has been stabbed that can, it can be hidden. And he doesn't do that. What he does is, the first thing he does is he puts him his hands behind his back and places him under arrest. The victim is then being arrested and it's only after that they then start saying is he okay? He's, he's starting to go unconscious. And, and as you hear and as you saw as he was going unconscious conscious, what happens next? The police's, the policeman says I'm placing you under arrest. Now where a lot of the, the concern about this is then Mr. Digua is brought in and apparently he's allowed to get food and they're showing a lot of current attention when he was then finally arrested and brought in. But, but the reason, the reason this is about two tiered. And what does two tiered mean? Well, it means two separate laws, two enforcement regimes. There's a harsher enforcement regime than another. You know, with regards, and the Bible teaches us very clearly there is one law for the foreigner and one law for the local. There's to be one law, it's to be impartial and that is the way our, the law is to be administered. The sword bearer in scripture is to be impartial. But as you see here, it didn't seem to be impartial. In fact, what was even worse was it's been reported by GB News that the police were wanting to present Mr. Novak as the aggressor. So like there is no way in which the reason people are saying, believe that this is an example of two tiered policing is because all police have to go through equality training, anti racism training and this was brought in particularly in, in the LA as a result of the BLM riots and and so forth. So all this anti racism training, all this anti Racism thinking when somebody then says, I you're says to a white person you're a racist or you racially abused me. They're the ones who are firstly treated. Now, this is not an isolated incident. We see preachers getting arrested. There was a good friend of mine from Bristol, he was arrested even though the Muslims were assaulting him as he was preaching.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Wow.

[Nathan Anderson]

There are examples. That's Pastor Moodley, by the way. There's examples of. There are examples as well where we look at the BLM riots, the arrests compared to say, the Southport riots, which were anti immigration. Keir Stormer himself took the knee for the BLM riots. And then as soon as the Stockport riots happened as a result of two girls being murdered by an immigrant, then what happens? Keir Starmer doesn't take the knee this time. Instead he says, we are going, you're going to be put on remand and you're going to be locked up. So we see from the very top there's a different approach. When it came to the riots here in Northern Ireland, when it was, when it was blm, we had a member of the Legislative assembly saying, oh, I'm going to throw money and give money to the BLM protesters in America and give money for their funds. And then what happens? He's criticizing the protesters and the rioters who are in Belfast. So we see the inconsistency from left wing politicians, from left wing institutions. And that is the concern here. And it does not accord with biblical justice, which is to be impartial, it's to be fair. And I'll even look at Northern Ireland, there's a very high profile case and again, it's going on at the minute. So I don't want to say too much. Jeffrey Donaldson, he, he was the leader of the dp. He has, he is up before the court for alleged. And which he denies alleged sexual impropriety with, with minors. Right. Now, the reason this is interesting is. And the police here acted swiftly, robustly based on the complaints that they had. But the police compare that response. And again, I want to say Mr. Donaldson denies those allegations.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Sure.

[Nathan Anderson]

It's before a jury right now. But compare that, the policing response with that, with what we heard in that report from Rupert Lewis.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Gotcha.

[Nathan Anderson]

And we hear, we hear, we hear what's going on there. For years and decades, the police were aware of this, local government was aware of this and everybody stood silent. And one of the reasons was they were afraid of being called racist.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

So races, you know the word racist and is being Weaponized by bad people. And the problem is it's disempowering the, the lawgiver, so. And the law upholder.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah. Wow, thank you for that, brother. That's really, really helpful. We're actually go to break here again. And just to make a quick question, did Mr. Novak survive or did he die?

[Nathan Anderson]

No.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay. He died that on the spot or did they get him to the hospital or.

[Nathan Anderson]

I think, my understanding is that he died on the way to the hospital

[Co-host or Guest Host]

and so the other guy was charged with murder, Is that correct?

[Nathan Anderson]

He was charged with murder. It's currently being appealed. The sentence is being appealed because they believe the prosecution believe it was too lenient.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay, gotcha. Well, it's. I didn't plan this, but we're gonna go to, to break here actually. And you're here from our sponsor, Amtech Blades, because. Yes, we do. Like I'm, I'm carrying an amtac blade right now. I got two blades and firearm on my person. And we have our Amtech blades right there as well. Didn't plan it that way. But let's, let's go to, let's go to that break. We'll be right back and we'll pick up the conversation. This video is brought to you by Amtech Blades. We are very excited to be partnering with Amtech. Bill Rapier, long time Navy Seal, DevGur operator, amazing brother and friend looking for a battle axe to carry on your person to chop some wood. They've got you covered. Looking for a blade to carry on you every day. Also got you covered. Look at this. I gotta check my mail. What do we got going on here? Oh, look how sharp that is. What is this? Oh, 5% off. You can go to amtechblades.com, put apology in the coupon code, get 5% off your order and he will match that and give 5% to end abortion. Now again, amtechblades.com them we're grateful for them. Check them out.

[I]

Hey, Bond. Senu Live is finally here. Join me on June 29th for our very first live session, available exclusively to all Access members at Apologia Studios. As you work through the incredible lectures of Dr. Greg Bonson, you're bound to have questions about apologetics, theology, philosophy and the Christian faith. That's exactly what Bonsing you live is for. Once a month, I'll be hosting an interactive live stream where you could engage directly with me, ask your questions and dive deeper into the topics that you're studying. Whether you're new to presuppositional, apologetics or looking to sharpen your understanding of the Christian worldview. This is your opportunity to learn, to interact and to grow alongside a community of like minded believers. So join me on June 29th for our first Bonson U Live exclusively at apologiastudios.com welcome back everybody.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Thank you for sticking around and glad to have my friend Nathan on here. I'm glad. I was just saying, I was so glad. I literally asked him two hours ago if he could do this because it was kind of a last minute thing and Nathan's actually the one that would like brought me into this conversation to begin with because I, I totally missed what was happening and so anyways, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna play a clip here real quick that's talking about the, the riots and, and Belfast and just kind of the outcry of what's, what's gone on here since all this in the last couple weeks. So we'll play this real quick and then pick up.

[Nathan Anderson]

I am sick to death of being told that anybody who stands up and says that is far right, it is common sense and nothing more. I, I don't know how many people contacted this show in the first hour, but there was one voice note that stood out before Richard Tice. Wherever you are, just pin back your logos.

[Caller or Listener]

This was Rob Morning jazz on my way to work as normal. Listen to you talk about the thing that happened in Belfast last night, all the unrest. Well, yes, rightly you shouldn't condone what happened. What else have people got to do? They're not listening. The political class are not listening. These people who are coming over here illegally, they're rapists, terrorists, they're coming over here. It's literally like putting a wolf in a sheep field. You are giving them a target rich environment. You haven't fetted them, you've done nothing. All you've done is dump them in a place where they can wreak habit havoc. Where they come from, guess what? There's no law. If they can do what literally whatever they like, they come over here, there's lawyers, of course, taxpayer funded, they get a nice cushy home, running water, sky tv, gym memberships, bus passes. They can literally go where they want and create havoc. And when they do, the people that foisted them upon us, guess what they say? Don't get upset, don't do anything, don't go out and cause unrest. Well, tell you what mate, stop reaping. Then you might not have to sell it because this country is absolutely on the edge. They Cannot take much more of people getting stabbed, raped, blown up, you name it, you voice lit upon us for the last 25, 30 years, ever since Blair said, I'm gonna rub your noses in it. Well, guess what? What goes around comes around. And I think the political class have got a very, very, very big, big smack on the nose.

[Nathan Anderson]

Coming six minutes past seven, we'll say very good morning.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay, so Nathan, why don't you kind of bring us in then to what, what's going on in Belfast? I think I've heard that things have kind of calmed down a little bit. But what, what's been the, the result of this happening here in Belfast?

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, well, first of all, I think it's important to address what was said there before.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yes, please.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

So.

[Nathan Anderson]

Because I think what we see there, you know, look, is, and what we hear there is a man who is at the end of his tether, right? And I think that is where most, where a lot of people from working class areas are because a lot of working class areas are being ghettoized. Okay? And the thing is, working class middle class Britain is very different to middle class, middle class Britain, because class is much, is a big divide in Northern Ireland and in the general uk okay? So people who are middle class tend to live in nice suburbs. They tend to be almost exclusively people who are from here who find their origins here. Those that, that don't tend to be immigrants who have been integrated well into society. Okay. You know, we've had a long standing Chinese, Indian population in Northern Ireland and they've integrated well and things, you know, that sort of immigration has never, never been a problem. And, and let's be honest, not every immigrant is a, you know, is rapist. Not every immigrant is, you know, any of these things. In fact, many are here just to contribute because unfortunately we have a situation where we have a labor shortage. And by the way, we've got to be honest, a lot of that is due to the child sacrifice of abortion.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Sure.

[Nathan Anderson]

There's 10 million people who are not here in the UK that should have been. Now there's 13 million people who are here because of immigration. Now it's not. Doesn't take a genius to work out that that abortion may have had something to do with, to do with that. But let's, let's be clear. Okay, let's be clear. So, so that all said, the middle class areas are people who very often they go out to work 9 to 5, they live in a nice house, they say hello to their neighbors, but they don't have A lot of affinity, very often with their immediate area. Working class people, however, tend to have a very strong community. They know their neighbors, they're in and, and they, they've known their neighbors for generations. And their houses, because they're, they're often smaller and cheaper, are being used by the state to house. And a lot of these sort of areas that are vulnerable, as it were, a lot of these are being, houses are being bought up by the state. Those houses are then being used to house asylum seekers. Okay. And, and then because there's cheaper rents as well, the state's buying up more of those houses, using them, the houses sound seekers. And because of the cheap rents, more asylum seekers, more refugees and more immigrants are moving into those areas. And people are therefore being priced out of their own community. They're moving on. Meanwhile, other people are moving in. So they're seeing their community changed and transformed. Like one of the. My dad used to be a pastor of a church and that area I would have known my great grandfather lived in that area. My nanny and granda were originally from that area. My mom was from that area. And I knew a lot of the people who lived in each house. But what's happening is the old people have moved out and now I was walking down some of those streets and you would not have recognized the community because it's a tool. You know, you've got people from all over the world and you know, people from all over the world come from different cultures and they have different, some of them and a lot of them have different standards of hygiene and cleanliness and you know, some of like I, I was walking down the street the other day, I saw somebody eating a bit of fruit and throwing at a cat. Point blank range. This is the sort of things that people are seeing in their daily life, their daily experience. Then they're realizing, oh, I can't get into my GP or my daughter can't move into my community because she's priced out in my community. So this is all, this is the melting pot that people are seeing. And because people care about their community, they care about their culture, they're seeing another culture, alien culture moving in. And that is something, this is why a lot of. There's a lot of concern from working class people from both sides of the community. And because the church is quite middle class, it doesn't see or experience immigration in the way in which the working classes do. And very often the, the middle class only hears one verse repeated ad nauseam, which is love the stranger in the land. You're in. And it's amazing how theonomist they are with that one verse.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

But they don't. But they don't look at the wider context that Andrew laid out. The fact that there's one law that in. In ancient Israel. And again, we can't identify.

[Andrew Sandlin]

It's.

[Nathan Anderson]

It's not.

[Caller or Listener]

Not.

[Nathan Anderson]

It's analogous, but it's not direct. We can't just say we're like Israel, but there are principles there in terms of maintaining culture, maintaining integration. There are things there that, with our view of multiculturalism, isn't happening. I think fundamentally we need to get back to the Bible. And one of the things that we can do is for pastors to actually start reading the Old Testament.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

And preach the whole of the doctrine of the stranger, not just love the stranger. You know what I mean?

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah, that's an excellent, excellent point. So just curious because I don't know the answer to this. We see a. Watch a video of burning vehicles. We're hearing there's riots. Who's starting the riots? Is it the immigrants or is it the. The Irish folks that have just had enough, enough and they're trying to combat the. The violence from the immigrant immigrants?

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, well, look, there were lots of protests held across Northern Ireland. Right. Most of them were peaceful. And I don't want to be like mostly peaceful riots because, look, the riots were awful, but a lot of. There were a lot of places like Lisbon saw thousands of people protesting and there was nothing, not any antrum ballamina. And there were no. There was no violence at all.

[Gabe (Producer or Technical Assistant)]

What.

[Nathan Anderson]

What effectively happened was some. Some people started putting out things on social media. AI designed things and said, be at this location. And then what happened was a lot of kids, you know, sort of thought this would be a great day to do a bit of recreational riding. And there were adults among them, too, most of them from outside their areas. And they then started, you know, wrecking the joint. So effectively that's what it was. In other. Some parts of the city, the paramilitaries, you know, and basically said that if you do that, you'll, you know, there will be consequences for you and your family.

[Andrew Sandlin]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

So shock horror. In those parts of Belfast, there was no. There was no rioting. But in other parts of the city, there was not that. And people were, you know, kids were arrested and, you know, they know they're now going to bear the consequences of their foolish actions. But I mean, so. So I want to be clear that this wasn't. This wasn't representative of the whole of Northern Ireland.

[Caller or Listener]

Yeah. Right.

[Nathan Anderson]

This was a couple, a lot of kids that just said, we're going to go to this area, all being WhatsApp and ride. Let's all go here. And a couple hundred of them and then people are running. Right.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

That's really super helpful on, because, you know, like, here we just see the news, oh, Belfast is on fire. What's going, you know, like, we don't know what's going on, what the context is. So help me with this because I, I, my understanding is I've heard that there's actually been, you know, native Irishmen who are just literally going door to door and looking for immigrants, like trying to take things into their own hands. Is that accurate? Is that, is that going on? What does that look like?

[Nathan Anderson]

Yeah, well, I mean, I wasn't on the ground, but I can tell you what I saw on social media and what I heard. And yes, a lot of innocent immigrants were being targeted by some of these kids, some adults, but most of them were coming from outside the area and they were, yeah, there were a lot of people who, a lot of people who were evicted from their homes and face trauma. And I think, I mean, we as Christians can't stand over that and say that's okay because we can't just pick on innocent people and, and we can't take the law into our own hands.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

So, but look, what I'm saying is that was happening in certain parts of Belfast. It wasn't happening throughout the whole of Belfast. And look, Belfast has had, Belfast generally has this time of year, quite a few rats anyway.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

So it's, this is sort of not uncommon.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

For Northern Ireland, unfortunately, that's what we, we tend to do at this time of year.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah. I was gonna say, you guys have a history of things like this and, and violence and I mean, you're old enough to have probably been on the tail end of the IRA wars and stuff like that. And so you, you, it's not something that's completely unfamiliar to you, but I guess we have about 10 minutes left here. And I appreciate you sticking. I know it's, you're eight hours ahead there, so you're, it's getting late for you. So I guess what can, what can people do? If, maybe here in the States, Is there anything we can do to help? If you're in Ireland, if you're in the UK or in Northern Ireland, I should say, or you're in the uk, is there anything people can do to help? Because, and I, and I'll say this, like, obviously you made a great point. You know, we're not encouraging or suggesting vigilante justice.

[Nathan Anderson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

We're not, you know, suggesting, you know, forming a mobile. But I will say there, at what point, right, if the government is betraying you, you know, at what point do you, is it biblically justified then to take a defensive posture to, to defend your property and your loved ones? You know, and again, I'm not, not encouraging violence or anything like that. Like, I'm, when I hear stuff we just talked about, I'm like, part of me is like, I don't necessarily fault those people if, if they're feeling that they're in danger. You know, Again, I'm not encouraging that, but I feel like this is a very important conversation, an important question that should be asked. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And like I said, anything that people can do maybe to, to help. Let's, let's bring attention to that.

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, I, I, I think, I think we have to be careful as well, because, like, as you said, I came from the tail end of the troubles, and I have family members who died in the troubles, you know, so a friend, I, I know I have friends who, who died in the troubles. I mean, look, most, there was no family that was untouched either in your sort of white, you know, maybe not your immediate family, but maybe your sort of extended family, you know, and, and we are a very, you know, clownish people, you know, in this country. So I, I think we have to be careful about sort of saying, right, let's, let's go out. And you know, because the problem is once we start saying, okay, arm yourselves for militias, these things take, take on a world of their own. Oh yeah, and, and I, and I have spoken to people who did that at the early parts of the troubles to defend themselves against the Iraq or, and, and what ended up happening was broken families, sorrow, loss of friends. So, so I, I think, I think fundamentally at this stage, and I also don't think that the legal process is done. You know, I, I think there are, there are things that we can do. So I, I think, I think fundamentally it is about getting in this government who we, which we have and in the UK removed, this government has to go because this government, you know, has, has just been lawless. Yeah, to use another word. So, so I think that's one thing I, I think and, and there is a legal process to do that that's called elections. So it is incumbent on every person in the UK to say whatever it happens. Don't vote for these people who are supporting mass immigration, supporting the abandonment of Christian, the Christian rules based law, you know, so, and let's, let's start to reconstruct our society. And I think fundamentally we have to get. But we're not going to reconstruct unless we start realizing we need to get back to a worldview that gives us the strength to rebuild that society. Secularism is failed. So we have two choices. We have Islam or we have Christianity. We have only two choices. So what that means is those people out there who are non Christians in working class communities. I want to appeal to you and say it's time to return to the God of your fathers. Okay. I want to say that and what I want to say to the church is it's time to return to the God of the Word and the Word of God and we need to get back to the word of God and in every area of life, including immigration and proclaim that, that and live that and be prepared to like Pastor Clive. Take your principles and suffer.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

Okay, so and, and speak up because there's a people there who are not Christians who are unreached in these working class communities and they want to see leadership. And if they don't get leadership from the church, guess what? They're going to get leadership from somewhere else. Some secular source that may not be to our liking, in fact, won't be to our liking and the society will not improve in the long term. So I think that's, that's what I would say to the people here.

[Andrew Sandlin]

Okay, thank you.

[Nathan Anderson]

I think, I think what I would say to the Americans is this though, brother. We've got to realize that, you know, there's an, like there was a group that there was a. Before all this happened, in fact, two weeks ago there was a, a race relations strategy that was coming through the government. Okay. Of Northern Ireland and the executive committee were looking at this and there's a couple of conservative MLA who were speaking on that. Timothy Gaston, Philip Brett. And at that time there were activists who were giving evidence. Some of the activists who were giving evidence said a lot of untruths about political representatives. But one of them actually called one of the conservative reps representatives A. Use an expletive and use the word the. I'm glad I got the B. Right. And you can fill in what that means, but it means an illegitimate child.

[Caller or Listener]

Okay.

[Nathan Anderson]

And what was interesting wasn't that I did a research, a bit of research into these organizations. One of the organizations was getting half A million a year. The other organization was getting a quarter of a million a year. And when you actually look at what, whenever you look at say, the Honey Fund, as it were, there are all of these activist organizations across Northern Ireland pushing left wing agendas and they're getting funding from the state, they're getting funding from globalist organizations, they're getting funding from USAID and America. So one thing that you can do is you can speak to your banks, you can speak to your representatives and you can say to them, we don't want our money. We don't want money from America going to invest in organizations and activists to fund an army of people who are undermining the Christendom in Europe.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah, please do. Because I don't want to send my money to the. That for those reasons either. Yes, no, thank you, bro. That's, that's super helpful and in, you know, I just want to say, you know, I, I love, I've been wanting to get back to Ireland. We love, we love you, you people so much. And some of my most favorite people in the world who I know are watching live. Love you guys. I miss you. I'm not even going to say where they live, was that.

[Nathan Anderson]

You're very. Well, you're very welcome to come look anytime you want.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

I know, I know we'd love to. I have a second home there in Northern Ireland. I'm not gonna say where because I don't want any immigrants showing up at their house and pitchforks and torches, but they're watching live right now. I love you guys so much. So, by the way, I meant to mention as I totally forgot. So just everyone knows. One of the reasons I wanted Nathan on here is because he's involved politically. He works for some of the legislators, so he's very much in, in the know when it comes to how the political atmosphere is there in Northern Ireland. So help, help our listeners understand this because you still have a functioning, now you have a functioning government there in Northern Ireland. That's. But it sounds like it. You, you're allowed to function, but you still just have to do what they say in Parliament. So, so, so help us understand. Like what does that look like? Do you guys have the ability even to say in Northern Ireland no more, we're not, we're not taking any more of these immigrants or we're not allowing this, we're not allowing that. Or are you having to, you know, bow to what's going down in Westminster?

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, I, I think you've got to understand it in the Context, like federal almost. Okay. So you've got the federal government here, you've got the regional government, the state government here, you've got your county government, so forth. So if you imagine Westminster as the federal government. Okay, okay. And you imagine Northern Ireland, the Assembly as the state government and then your councils as your sort of city, metropolitan and county governance. Okay. So that's the way we sort of structure. Westminster, however, is different to Congress in America. It is very much. The local government tends to have a lot of power.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Sure.

[Nathan Anderson]

And you know, then the state government has a lot of power and then the federal government and there's a clear separation of powers. What we have in the, the United Kingdom is slightly different in that Parliament is sovereign. Okay. So what that means is that Parliament can literally do whatever it wants. So if Parliament says we are giving and delegating power down, then it delegates power down. If Parliament says we're taking that back, it has the sovereign legal right to do so. And the only power that Westminster has, so the Parliament limit on Parliament is that it cannot bind its successors. And the other limitation is that the king technically could refuse to sign legislation into law. That hasn't happened since I think Queen Anne about 400 years ago. Yeah, so we, we, in a sense that's really where we are. So yes, there's a functioning executive in Northern Ireland. The assembly can make laws, write laws, insofar as Westminster doesn't overrule.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

I see.

[Nathan Anderson]

And in 20, 20, 20, it overruled. And in fact it was unprecedented because normally it chose not to. There was restraint, but it chose to do so on the issue of abortion and the issue of marriage. And that's. So that's really what happened. So that's really where we are gotcha at this point.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

So if you guys there, you know, Northern Ireland would say work, we're not allowing any more immigration and we're closing the borders. What would, what do you think the reaction from Westminster would be?

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, effectively that's a federal decision. Right. You know, part of. So, so if you know what I mean, like the state can't really.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

I see.

[Nathan Anderson]

You know, states can't really make decisions on, you know, immigration policy for you guys. So for us, Westminster holds that, that, that rule. So in a sense, what I'm saying is we need to change the government. So the government at Westminster needs to change.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay, so one more question and then I'll, I'll let you go on. It's Almost, what, almost 10 o' clock your time. So obviously there's, there's a bit of an outrage of. Of all this going on. Right. Not just in Northern Ireland, but we played a bunch of stuff from. From Britain. Do you see any hope of things being changed? Are people outraged enough that there might be some change? Or do you see it just hopeless until you get new legislators in? Like, what's your. What's your feel on that situation?

[Nathan Anderson]

It's hard to say like it, because. No, I.

[Caller or Listener]

What we.

[Nathan Anderson]

It really depends actually on a by election that's happening today.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Oh, really?

[Nathan Anderson]

So, so there's a by election happening in Makersfield. So it's a bit of complex situation, but effectively what's going on is northern. There is a MP who stood down and their labor mp and they want to get in this new guy who is Andy Burnham and he's a popular local mayor, but he's. He's worse than Starmer. He is actually more left wing. He wants to tax all property. He, you know, so. So in a sense he's not going to bring the solution. But there's. There are two other parties that are sort of in the running. One is Reform Farage and the other is Restore, and that's Rupert Lowe. Now, my heart is with Rupert, Lou, but my head is with Farage in this one because Farage's party is the only one that can really win. And I think the, the thing is, if, if Andy Burnham fails to get elected here, Labour are sort of hoping that he's the nice face, the presentable form of the Labour Party. So if he doesn't get elected here, that throws Labour into complete tailspin. And there's a part of Labour wants to go veer left and support all of the chaos going on because they're saying we're losing votes to the Green Party. There's another part of Labour saying, oh, let's go right, we got a challenge. Restore and Reform. So in a weird way, today we'll see. Because if, if Andy Burnham gets in, I suspect that until there's another national election, we're not going to see much change. We might see a bit. A bit of change around some things. In fact, I think that as long as we have labor, things are going to get worse. Social media bans and so forth, forth. We're already, we're seeing digital IDs. They're all being pushed on on us. And, and this government is like, we've had a lot of bad governments since Tony Blair, but this government is the worst government that we've had. And it's getting to the point of tyrannical wow.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Okay. One more question. I promise it will end after this. My friends over there said to ask you about the, the European Parliament vote yesterday on immigration said it was the strictest migration law ever. So do you know?

[Nathan Anderson]

Yeah, well, well, yes, I think, I think there was this. I haven't really followed this too much, but I did see it come in. Now the European Union does have an impact here. I didn't want to get too complicated.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

No.

[Nathan Anderson]

Because we have left the eu. Northern, Northern still part of the European Single market, although GB isn't. So it's this thing called the protocol. So in a sense Europe is going to have an impact. And also the common travel area means that anyone from Dublin can effectively end up in London without having to go through any border checks. So there is going to have to. If we want to stop immigration, it can't just be stopping immigration in the uk it also has to be in the Republic of Ireland. Okay. So it has to be all, all aspects of the common travel area. No. Yes. The European. Across Europe, immigration is a big, big problem. And governments are realizing that if they don't do something in immigration, they're going to fall. So you're going to see, you see governments that are a bit more on the center right, even center left or centrists, they're now saying we need to sort out some immigration things. So what we saw in the parliament there was the vote. What's quite interesting is though, the biggest party in northern Arn, Sinn Fein, who was linked to the ira, Marxist terrorists, they, they voted against this because they want this continue the, the, the, the immigration agenda, they're bought into globalist policies. And I think what it will say is across the whole of the, across the whole of Europe, we've got globalist organizations with got globalist parties that want to push globalist policies on the individual nation. And the Bible doesn't say that, doesn't say that, you know, other races cannot live in a nation, but it does say that nations exist.

[Dominion Wealth Representative]

Sure.

[Nathan Anderson]

And it does celebrate nations and God created those nations. So it's important that those nations continue.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Nathan Anderson]

And you know, they're an important. We shouldn't be just subsumed to global Babylonish governance, but we should be subsumed to a civil magistrate who is under God's rule.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah. Amen, brother. That's a, that's a great place to end right there. It's funny, I was just gonna say as you were talking about, you know, traveling back and forth and stuff. I don't know if you've experienced this, but, I mean, I've been to many different countries now. We've traveled all over and literally the most difficult immigration we've had to go through every single time has been leaving Dublin to come back to the States every single time. And it's weird because for whatever reason you do the immigration there in Dublin before you get to the States. It's the only place internationally we've flown where that's the case.

[Caller or Listener]

Case.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

But every single time, it's always the worst leaving Dublin to come and we're like, are you serious? Like, I don't know what it is. But anyways, do you experience that as well? It sounds like.

[Nathan Anderson]

Yeah, very much so. You know, I was. Well, maybe not say here, but I. I got an esta and there was a problem with my esta and I was put in a holding for overnight. And so. So I. Unfortunately, I just messed up an estate issue. But no, they were initially quite robust and then they realized what the problem was. They realized it wasn't looking into the country to. But it was just an error. So, yeah, so then I was. Missed that flight, unfortunately. But then, oh, no, the next time we're over. So. But I, I think. I think what I've found is that it's. It's a weird figure that Americans have. A lot of Americans have come to me and a lot of Americans struggle to get into this country, yet I'm seeing all these people and somehow they're getting into the country and they don't seem to have any of those problems. So it seems to be that legal immigration is more difficult than irregular immigration.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

That's. That's what we've been experiencing under the Biden regime. Hopefully. Hopefully that's been fixed. But, yeah, we. We've experienced the same sort of things.

[Caller or Listener]

So.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

And what's crazy. And again, I, and I. Forgive me, I keep rambling on here. You know, we live in Arizona. We're a border state. And you know, we've had. During Biden era, we had just people from all over just open right through the. Through Southern Arizona, you know, through the Mexico border. And, and thankfully, thankfully, most of those immigrants did not land here in Arizona. They went elsewhere. It might be because we have. Are all carrying guns, I don't know. But regardless, that's a great place to end. Thank you, brother, so much for your time and for being available last. Last minute. I appreciate it. And let's keep talking. I do want. We do want to get back there. Let's keep talking. We'll find a reason.

[Nathan Anderson]

So absolutely, you're very welcome to. Come on, dude. And here and here. If any of you are free next Saturday, Joe Boots coming down to Castle and Castle the weekend I'm running. You're very welcome to come down if you can get over the next nine days.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

Yeah, right. So are you. You are connected with Joe then?

[Nathan Anderson]

Well, I mean, he's speaking to our conference and I'm friendly with Joe, but I'm not part of the Ezra.

[Co-host or Guest Host]

No, I understand that. Yeah. Joe. Joe's a very, very good friend of mine and I heard he was going to be in Northern Ireland and I wanted to connect him with you, but I forgot. So I'm glad that you guys made that connection because I know he's been. He was actually just here a couple weeks ago. I had lunch with them and we talked a little bit about that. So anyways, great. I'm glad. I'm glad that's. That's going on. So just a couple things here. Again, I want to. Director. Want to go to shop.apacheStudios.com you get our tracks, coffee, swag, all the stuff. And of course, Heritage Defense, if you homeschool your children, please, please, please go to heritage defense.org sign up, put apology in the coupon code, get your first month free. And it's a fantastic way to protect yourself against three letter agencies if they come knocking on your door. So grateful for all you. For, for everyone that supports us and sports and abortion. Now grateful for Nathan and Lord William will be. We'll be back soon. And to my friends, bye bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye bye.