Podcast Summary: Apple News Today
Episode: "How RFK Jr.’s tumultuous past has shaped his convictions"
Host: Shemitah Basu
Guest: Michael Shearer
Date: December 13, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the life and character of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.), currently serving as the US Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). Journalist Michael Shearer, who recently published a major profile on Kennedy for The Atlantic, shares insights from his extensive access to Kennedy and their conversations. The discussion unpacks how Kennedy’s personal history—marked by family tragedy, addiction, recovery, and political shifts—shapes his controversial approach to public health policy, especially vaccines.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Michael Shearer’s Reporting Access
- Kennedy initially skeptical about the profile, believing the media is unfair to him.
"Almost literally the first thing he said to me when I walked in the room was, my staff doesn't want me to talk to you. They think this is a mistake. No one in your position ever treats me fairly." – Michael Shearer [00:30]
- Shearer spent about seven hours interviewing Kennedy, including traveling with him and exchanging many texts.
2. Early Trauma and Addiction
- Kennedy faced immense trauma in his youth:
- Nine years old when his uncle, President John F. Kennedy, was assassinated [03:11].
- Fourteen when his father, Bobby Kennedy, was killed, leading to feelings of abandonment and instability.
- Substance abuse began early:
- Experimented with LSD at 15, quickly escalated to crystal meth and then heroin.
- Maintained a heroin addiction through adolescence and early adulthood, even during time at Harvard and UVA Law [04:05].
- Turning point: Public overdose and arrest after being found with heroin during a trip for rehab [04:52].
- Part of a larger wave of addiction in the Kennedy family during that era.
- Recovery remains central to his identity:
- Attends daily 12-step meetings, even during his presidential campaign.
"I think it is impossible to separate any part of him now from the recovery journey." – Michael Shearer [05:55]
- Sees himself as a “heroic” figure, drawing inspiration from The Once and Future King and viewing himself in a mythic, King Arthur-like narrative.
3. Lifelong Crusade Against Institutions
- Early adult years focused on environmental activism; successful lawsuits against polluters [07:40].
- Once a staunch progressive, authored anti-Republican books and identified as an "FDR Kennedy liberal" [08:33].
- Shifted into populist, anti-establishment politics, finding common ground with Donald Trump on skepticism of corporate and scientific establishments.
"Kennedy decided that Trump was at heart not a conservative, but a populist." – Michael Shearer [10:44]
- Relationship with Trump depicted as transactional: Trump granted Kennedy real policymaking power at HHS to pursue longstanding goals.
4. Transformations at HHS
- Kennedy's tenure at HHS characterized by sweeping changes:
- Quarter of HHS workforce departed (through firings, buyouts, resignations) – “a massive downsizing” [12:01].
- Reductions in NIH funding.
- Enacted both left-leaning (e.g., pharmaceutical ad bans, food dye reforms, restrictions on sugary soda purchases with public assistance) and highly controversial public health policies.
- Chronic disease (not infectious disease) framed as the new focus of US health policy under Kennedy.
5. Controversy Over Vaccines
- Kennedy convinced vaccines are linked to a myriad of chronic diseases (e.g., autism), though mainstream science considers this unsubstantiated [13:51].
- Has reoriented massive federal research funds to explore vaccine safety, a move seen by mainstream experts as unnecessary and potentially dangerous.
- Changing CDC guidelines and vaccination policies—many public health authorities fearful of increased outbreaks from lower vaccination rates:
"You have this remarkable fight going on now within public health over who's going to hurt more kids. ... Both sides are saying to the other side, if you do this, kids will die." – Michael Shearer [15:13]
- Dr. Paul Offit, a chief critic, sees Kennedy’s approach as unscientific, believes any major outbreaks will be proof of flawed policies:
"The viruses and the bacteria are going to do the education." – Michael Shearer relaying Offit's view [16:38]
6. Approach to Scientific Expertise and Public Health Messaging
- Kennedy distrusts experts and encourages Americans to "do your own research"—a radical position for a health secretary [18:25].
"He likes to say, 'Don't trust me even.'" – Shemitah Basu [18:32]
- Example: Tylenol-autism controversy
- Kennedy became interested in a paper suggesting a possible (unproven) link between prenatal Tylenol exposure and autism, dived deeply into the literature [18:34].
- Urged nuanced messaging, but President Trump simplified and overstated findings to the public.
7. Impact on Relationships (Family & Politics)
- Many in the Kennedy family and Democratic Party are publicly critical and estranged from RFK Jr.
- Notably, even former close friends like Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse now adversarial [22:03].
"These are very close old friends, but there's no acknowledgement at all that they ever had a friendship." – Michael Shearer [22:03]
- Some siblings and extended family have published scathing critiques of his leadership and vaccine views.
8. Media Sensationalism and Personal Challenges
- Media often focuses on Kennedy’s eccentricities and scandals—strange health stories (“worm in the brain”), animal rescues, or rumored affairs [24:06].
- Kennedy openly acknowledges numerous past transgressions and ongoing struggles with addictive behaviors.
"He'll say, I have so many skeletons in my closet that if they could vote, I'd be king of the world." – Michael Shearer [24:54]
- Sees himself as someone perpetually battling demons.
9. The Roots of Kennedy’s Deep Conviction
- Kennedy sees his life as a crusade, fulfilling family expectations and rebounding from addiction and adversity [26:14].
- His approach to science is unorthodox: focuses on risk aversion regarding vaccines, unlike the traditional burden-of-proof direction in public health.
"He believes you have to prove before you give a vaccine...that there is no harm. Whereas the scientific community...said if we can prove there's enormous benefit, that's enough..." – Michael Shearer [27:15]
10. Scientific Community’s Mixed Response
- Some support Kennedy’s focus on chronic disease and nutrition [28:26].
- Openness exists to further study vaccine safety, but skepticism abounds over Kennedy’s and his team's scientific competence and neutrality.
- The core fear: His search for proof of harm may do more immediate damage through reduced vaccination and subsequent disease resurgence [29:53].
- Kennedy remains steadfast: "We would listen," he claims, but immediately reaffirms his certitude.
Notable Quotes
-
On his internal drive:
"He has a ferocity to him that is unusual." – Michael Shearer [01:42] -
On the adversarial landscape:
"There have been enormous reductions in funding at NIH. ... About a quarter of the people who work for HHS have left." – Michael Shearer [12:01] -
On his mythic self-narrative:
"He, from a very early age, saw himself as a sort of King Arthur like figure. Orphaned future king who has to fight demons and evil forces and fight his way back." – Michael Shearer [06:28] -
On vaccine policy conflict:
"You have this remarkable fight going on now within public health over who's going to hurt more kids." – Michael Shearer [15:13] -
On his rapport with critics:
"These are very close old friends, but there's no acknowledgement at all that they ever had a friendship." – Michael Shearer [22:03] -
On the cost of his approach:
"The viruses and the bacteria are going to do the education." – Michael Shearer relaying Dr. Offit's warning [16:38] -
On skeletons in his closet:
"If they could vote, I'd be king of the world." – Michael Shearer quoting Kennedy [24:54]
Key Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:42] – Background on Kennedy’s trauma/addiction and its influence
- [04:52] – Kennedy’s overdose/rehab turning point
- [07:40] – Early liberal/progressive activism, environmental lawsuits
- [10:44] – Alignment with Trump, shift from liberal values
- [12:01] – Changes at HHS, staff departures, new policies
- [13:51] – Kennedy’s vaccine skepticism, policy changes, scientific criticism
- [16:38] – Dr. Paul Offit’s critique: prediction of outbreaks
- [18:34] – Tylenol-autism case study; Kennedy’s vs. Trump’s messaging
- [22:03] – Kennedy’s estranged relationships with family and Democratic friends
- [24:06] – Media focus on Kennedy’s eccentric personal life
- [26:14 & 27:15] – Analysis of Kennedy’s core conviction and scientific philosophy
- [29:53] – Scientific community's wariness and open questions
Closing Thoughts
This episode provides an unvarnished, nuanced portrait of RFK Jr. as a man shaped by privilege, trauma, addiction, and a lifelong urge to wage crusades against institutions. These formative experiences drive both his dramatic policy shifts and his willingness to defy conventional scientific consensus on vaccines, causing deep rifts with allies and public health experts—and making his leadership at HHS one of the most controversial and consequential in recent history.