Rebroadcast: The secret to finding joy in running

Summary

Podcast Summary: Apple News Today – “Rebroadcast: The Secret to Finding Joy in Running”

Original Airdate: January 3, 2026
Host: Shamita Basu
Guest: Martinez Evans, author of Slow AF Run Club

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Episode Overview

This episode returns to a favorite Apple News In Conversation from the archives, exploring how to genuinely love running—regardless of your starting point, body size, or history with exercise. Host Shamita Basu interviews Martinez Evans, author, marathoner, and founder of the Slow AF Run Club, about his personal journey from non-runner to marathon finisher. Together, they discuss reframing exercise as a source of joy, overcoming internal and external critics, and cultivating sustainable, joyful habits in running (and beyond).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Martinez’s Origin Story: Running Against the Odds

• Doctor’s Dismissal as a Catalyst
  Martinez’s running journey began after a doctor dismissed his hip pain and bluntly attributed it to his weight:

  “You’re fat and you need to lose weight or you’re gonna die.” (Martinez, 01:16)

• In anger and partly out of spite, Martinez sarcastically declared he would run a marathon—then surprised himself by following through.

• First Steps and Embarrassment

  • Martinez’s first attempt at running led to him falling off a treadmill, surrounded by seasoned runners (“gazelles”)—an experience both mortifying and formative.
  • He drew inspiration from his “no struggle, no progress” tattoo (Frederick Douglass reference, 03:21).

2. Accessible Beginnings and Facing Exclusion

• Martinez found initial running guidance through “Couch to 5K” apps, but even beginner plans assumed a level of fitness many lack.
• Multiple coaches refused to train Martinez due to his size:

  “Most of the time, these individuals will say, well, I think you should lose some more weight first... I’m not comfortable with coaching you.” (Martinez, 05:30)

3. Motivation: Spite, Progress, and Unexpected Joy

• Martinez’s early motivation was a mix of proving doubters wrong and weight loss, but crossing the finish line of his first 5K revealed a deeper source of satisfaction:

  “That’s when it hit me: like, oh wow. I’m really a runner. I’m doing this running thing.” (Martinez, 07:07)

4. Building Up: From 5K to Marathon

• Martinez’s methodical approach: gradually tackled 5Ks, 10Ks, then half marathons before signing up for the Detroit Marathon.
• Training plans were adapted for personal needs—more grace, manageable mileage, and room for setbacks.

5. Confronting External Judgment on Race Day

• During his first marathon, staff in support vehicles repeatedly urged him to quit:

  “Hey, big man, do you want a ride to the finish line?” (Martinez, 09:48)

  • The bus driver eventually told him, “I can’t help that you slow and fat. I’m just trying to help you out.” (Martinez, 11:01)
  • This external judgment fueled Martinez to finish and reflect on the emotional highs and lows of the experience.

6. Setbacks, Mental Health, and Refocusing on Joy

• A major car accident left Martinez out of running for eight months, regaining lost weight and facing depression.
• In therapy, he realized that his happiness stemmed not from weight loss, but from the process and joy of running itself:

  “I’ve lost over 90 pounds. Right. But I wasn’t 90 pounds happier.” (Martinez, 11:38)

• Coming back to running, he made a promise: to run for happiness, regardless of body size.

7. The Mental Game: Inner and Outer Critics

• Concept of ‘You vs. Your Mind vs. Everyone Else’ (14:22)
  • The primary challenge for new or lapsed runners is not physical, but psychological: overcoming self-doubt and perceived (or real) judgment from others.
• Naming and Managing the Inner Critic

  “One of the things that I learned was, well, if you give this inner critic a persona… For me, my inner critic is named Otis. I named him Otis. And he’s a drunk uncle… you’re old enough to stand up to this drunk uncle.” (Martinez, 16:15)

  • Key Quote:

    “Not everything you think is true and not everything you feel about yourself is real.” (Martinez, 17:23)

• Facing External Judgment
  • Practice “delusional self-belief”—the willingness to believe in yourself even when others find it unreasonable.

    “Sometimes you have to be delusional with yourself to say, I’m going to do this, even if no one else believes in me.” (Martinez, 18:46)

8. Radical Joy: Redefining the Purpose of Running

• The idea that running can—and should—be about joy is, as Shamita notes, “radical” (21:51), given the focus on weight loss and performance in popular culture.
• Martinez advocates decoupling exercise from weight loss, highlighting the numerous health benefits and the importance of finding enjoyment in movement:

  “What if the world just took weight loss out of regular physical activity, period, and just made it about… Joy?” (Martinez, 22:15)

9. Advice for Listeners: How to Start Loving Running

• Don’t compare yourself to others. Comparison, he says,

  “is the thief of joy. And if you want to have joy, you can’t have comparison.” (Martinez, 23:56)

• Focus on moving for the sake of being, not for perfection, competition, or progress against others.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of spite:

  “I had dreams and aspirations of, like, shoving that medal in that doctor’s face and be like, in your face.” (Martinez, 06:13)

• On internal struggle:

  “It was that commitment that I made to myself… there might be some obstacles along the way and that's okay because I… I'm doing the thing that I really want to do.” (Martinez, 13:55)

• On delusional self-belief:

  “Sometimes you have to be delusional with yourself to say, I’m going to do this, even if no one else believes in me.” (Martinez, 18:46)

• On ‘beginner’s mindset’:

  “What would happen if we took the beginner’s mindset and took the joy in going through the process versus… I have to do this. These are the milestones that I need to get…” (Martinez, 20:49)

• On separating self-worth from running performance:

  “What if running was about joy?” (Shamita, 21:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 01:26: Introduction and Martinez’s motivation to start running
• 02:41 – 04:06: Martinez’s first gym experience and his “no struggle, no progress” mindset
• 04:22 – 06:13: Building momentum, discovering “Couch to 5K,” and difficulties finding a coach
• 07:46 – 09:32: From first 5K to first marathon, custom training approaches
• 09:36 – 11:28: The Detroit Marathon and confronting external judgment
• 11:38 – 13:55: The car accident, mental health struggles, rediscovering joy
• 14:22 – 17:50: How to combat the inner critic and societal expectations
• 18:01 – 20:49: “Delusional self-belief” and the importance of resilience
• 21:10 – 23:31: Shifting the focus of running (and exercise) to joy
• 23:56 – 24:35: Final advice: end comparison, pursue joy

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Conclusion

Key Takeaway:
Running—and exercise more generally—doesn’t have to be about suffering, measurement, or external validation. Martinez Evans’s journey illustrates that joy, self-acceptance, and a willingness to defy expectations (both internal and external) are not only possible, but transformative. His approach offers encouragement to anyone starting, restarting, or struggling with exercise.

Book Mentioned:
Slow AF Run Club: The Ultimate Guide for Anyone Who Wants to Run by Martinez Evans

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For further listening and resources, check the episode’s show notes or follow Apple News In Conversation.

Transcript

[A]

Hey there, it's Shemita here. It's the start of a new year, which for many of us means thinking about our habits, our routines, how we take care of ourselves. So we're bringing back a favorite episode from the archive about how to make exercise feel genuinely positive and sustainable, not something you have to drag yourself through. I hope you enjoy it. And we'll be back with new episodes next week. This is in conversation from Apple News. I'm Shamita Basu. Today, how to learn to love running. Martinez Evans was not a runner the day he decided to train for a marathon. It was 2012. He was working over eight hours a day on his feet, and he started to feel pain in his hip. So he went to go see a doctor.

[B]

He looks at me and says, I know why you in pain. Me? Okay, well, tell me why I'm in pain. You ain't put a stethoscope on me. You ain't touched me. You ain't do anything. And he was like, you're fat and you need to lose weight or you're gonna die.

[A]

Martinez weighed 360 pounds. He was used to doctors zeroing in on his weight before anything else, but still, it made him furious.

[B]

And, you know, he goes on to tell me, you know, you have this stomach as a pregnant woman, you need to start walking, go buy walking shoes. And I was like, skip all that. I'm gonna go run the marathon. A being sarcastic, but also being facetious. And he laughed at me and told me that was the most dumbest thing he has heard in all his years of practicing medicine.

[A]

Martinez left that appointment, drove past a running shoe store, and pulled an illegal U turn to buy his first pair of training shoes. A little over a year later, he ran his first marathon. Not a lot of people believed in Martinez when he started. Even race day staffers assumed he wouldn't make it to the finish line. But he gradually built up confidence and even found joy in running. And he thinks you can, too, no matter where you're starting from. Martinez wrote all about this in a book called Slow AF Run Club, the Ultimate Guide for Anyone who Wants to Run. It's informed by his experiences and studies in exercise science, a mix of practical training, nutrition tips, and ways to reframe your mindset to take on big races, but also any other kind of big challenge. But let's go back to that first day with his new kicks.

[B]

So I get these running shoes and I go home to my fitness center in my apartment complex, and I'm inconveniently sandwiched between two gazelles. You know the type of people I'm talking about.

[A]

You said gazelles.

[B]

Gazelles.

[A]

Two serious runners.

[B]

Two serious runners.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They are running effortlessly on the treadmill. They're running fast. I looked over to my left, this guy's going 10. I looked over to my right, this guy's going 9. I haven't been on the treadmill in years. And I'm thinking to myself, well, if these guys are going nine and 10, I can at least go seven. And 15 seconds later, I fell off the treadmill.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the sound my body made was deafening. And I was mortified and I was embarrassed. And the gazelles on top of their perch of their treadmill looked down at me and was like, hey, bro, are you okay? As they continue to run. And I grabbed my stuff and I got up out of there. So with tears in my eyes, you know the words of the doctors going back and forth of like, lose weight or die. I reach out to the doorknob and have this tattoo on my right wrist and it says, no struggle, no progress. And it goes to the famous 1857 speech. Frederick Douglass with the same name. And I remember being like, you know what? I gotta go through the struggle.

[A]

So how did you. I mean, it sounds like you pushed yourself to start in a really intense, what if I go from sort of 0 to 10 way. But how did you really get into it? How did you start establishing a running practice for yourself?

[B]

So this was very hard.

[A]

It's hard for everybody. I'll just, I'll say that it's hard for everybody.

[B]

Big facts. So it was very hard. But the first couple of weeks, it was more of just getting momentum.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So go out on a treadmill, run 30 seconds the next day, run a minute. And then I continue to run just a little bit longer each day until somebody told me about couch to 5k. So I started to do couch to 5k.

[A]

Oh, the app. Yeah, I've done that once before. I've tried doing that. Yeah.

[B]

There's a bunch of apps called couch to 5k. And I think one thing that's interesting about this app is like, you know, week one, day one, it's like, all right, we're going to start off with a slow 10 minute mile pace. And being like, what? This is for beginners?

[A]

This is slow. Yeah.

[B]

Like you expect beginners to run a 10 minute mile.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

So I go throughout the program. Also during this time, I'm looking for coaches. So I'm looking for People to try to coach me as well. And no one would take me on as a client.

[A]

Why? What would they say?

[B]

Most of the time, these individuals will say, you know, well, I think you should lose some more weight first. I never had a client that large. So, like, what if you get injured? I don't necessarily want to be responsible for you being injured, so on and so forth. So come back to when you've lost some weight and maybe we can work. But you at this size, I'm not comfortable with coaching you.

[A]

Wow. So no one had experience with your starting point? Basically, yeah. Yeah. So tell me, at that stage, why were you running? Was it still about, you know, proving that doctor wrong? Was it about losing weight at that point?

[B]

It was a mixture, a proving that doctor wrong. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had dreams and aspirations of, like, shoving that metal in that doctor's face and be like, in your face.

[A]

A lot of spite running was happening in that stage. Okay.

[B]

But weight loss was also, like, a part of the journey. When I initially started, we fast forward about 10 weeks from me meeting the doctor. I'm at the start line at my first 5K.

[A]

That's not that much time, actually. 10 weeks, you stuck with it. That spite running really got you there.

[B]

That spite warning really got me there. And I line up behind everybody. I thought I was so slow that I lined up past the walkers, past the individuals in wheelchairs, past the moms with strollers with dogs attached to them and nothing against them, but I thought a mom or two with a golden retriever attached to her stroller was gonna beat me in a 5K. That's where my confidence in running was. And the gun goes off and I started passing people and started passing the moms and the walkers and slow runners. And that's when it hit me like, oh, wow. Like, I'm really a runner. I'm doing this running thing and I crossed the finish line and I had, like, this biggest smile on my face of, like, it hit me like, oh, all this time, you know, I was second guessing myself and being like, you know, I don't know if I'm a runner. Oh, I'm a runner now. Yeah.

[A]

So you run this 5k, you're a runner now. How did you get from there to running your first marathon?

[B]

So it was a very methodical process. Roughly 18 months of, like, training. Ran 5k, ran about three or four other 5ks, started training for a 10k, ran the 10k, ran two or three of those. All right, I'm gonna start training for a half Marathon, Ran a half marathon. I think I ran two or three of those. And like, that was the end of the year for 2012. January 2013, I signed up for the Detroit Marathon. I look and say, okay, I have about 10ish months, so let's train. I had like three or four different training plans that I was using at one time to get me here, because I felt as if not one was suitable enough for me.

[A]

What were you looking for?

[B]

I was looking for something that was like, okay, I'm a build up two and then go back one. You might look at a typical training plan and say, I have four runs a week. Okay. During those four runs a week, one of them might be like, you run for six miles and then you run for, like, eight miles, and then you run for 10 miles, and then you gotta do your long run. And I remember being myself, like, so, like, I gotta run all of these miles during the week and do this long run. So I just felt like I wasn't suitable for that. I think what I found out through this is that what felt good was, like, the mileage or even the training plans that gave a little bit more grace. And I didn't necessarily see one out there. So I kind of just made it up myself as I went along with this training journey.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You had to find it for yourself, basically.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So tell me about that first marathon.

[B]

Okay, so we at the start line of my first Marathon, Detroit Marathon, October 2013. I am excited. I'm hype. I'm feeling good in the first half, and then around the second half, I start to, like, feel it. And I come into contact with this gentleman who is running, but he's just start walking. So I'm thinking to myself, well, let me try to give him some type of inspiration, because this is inspiration that I need for myself. And, you know, I'm talking to him and I'm like, hey, guy, you got this. And he was like, I know what you're trying to do. I'm done. Waves down this bus, and it's called a SAG wagon or SAG vehicle, and it's short for, like, supporting gear. So he gets on the bus, he drives off, and then I continue to go, and the bus comes back alongside of me, and he's like, hey, big man, you want to ride to the finish line? And at first I was like, no. Like, I'm okay. And he's like, all right, I'll come get you on the next go line. And I didn't pay it no mind, but I Was like, okay. And then, like, mile after mile was, hey, big man, you on the ride to the finish line? Hey, big man. And it got to the point where I was at mile 25. I'm less than a mile away, and this bus comes alongside of me again. It's like, hey, big man, do you want to ride to the finish line? And I just blew up. I blew up on him. And I was like, why do you keep asking me this? Like, why are you trying to asocide to doubt, but, like, why are you trying to get me to quit?

[A]

I'm so close.

[B]

Yes. I'm so close.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he goes on to say, you know, I can't help that you slow and fat. I'm just trying to help you out.

[A]

Ooh. That's what he said?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How did that hit you?

[B]

I just told him, leave me alone. I had some other colorful words for him that I'll choose not to say here. And then I finished the race, and it was just this storm of emotions. You know, the fact that I overcame. This is my first marathon, and still I had this dude who was, like, taunting me along the way.

[A]

Yeah. He saw you and made a judgment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Now I know following that marathon, you got into a pretty major car accident.

[B]

Yeah. Ended up being around about seven to eight months that I didn't run. And all the weight that I had lost, gained it all back, felt sorry for myself, got sad, got depressed, Just was really in a dark hole. And this is one of the reasons why I changed the way I think about running. It was because of this particular car accident. So I remember going to therapy and, you know, talking to the therapist and being like, you know, I've lost over £90. Right. But I wasn't £90 happier. And, you know, the therapist is like, well, what made you happy? And I was like, running. And, like, the process of running, like, all of the minutia that came with running, like, that's what I enjoy running races, slapping fives with people, giving people thumbs up, and, like, the whole race experience, like, that's what I enjoyed. That was fun. That made me happy. And, you know, he was like, well, what would you do if you're able to run again? And I was like, well, if I'm able to run again, I'm not going to focus on weight loss. Like, I just want to run. And I want to run if I'm £400 or if I'm £150. I just want to be able to run, because that was the thing that brought Me, Joy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, eight months after that car accident, I was cleared to run again. And I kept that promise to myself.

[A]

What was it like getting back into it?

[B]

Oh, man, I was hellacious.

[A]

Yeah? Yeah. Really?

[B]

Yes. It was very hard because first you're down, so you're not active for eight months. And so you have this battle that's going on within. So you have the battle of like your head is telling you, oh, you need to be this far. Like you ran a marathon, you need to be there and. And then you have your body that's like, no, sir.

[A]

You are so far from where you were then.

[B]

Yeah. You're so far away from where you were.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's a constant battle in itself.

[A]

I mean, you're laughing your way through that. But I think that is one of the most off putting parts of the whole process to a lot of people. Right. Feeling like you. What do you do in those moments where you feel like you've lost progress?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And trying to motivate yourself all over again.

[B]

It took me about a year or so to like really find my groove of stopping and starting and somewhat injuring myself and getting back healthy to really get back on track of running again. But it was that commitment that I made to myself of I'm going to do this because this what made me happy. And there might be some obstacles along the way and that's okay because I. I'm doing the thing that I really want to do.

[A]

So let's talk a little bit about what specifically is in this book you wrote. Slow AF Run Club, the ultimate guide for anyone who wants to run. And I like the way that you put it in your book. You say that running is about you versus your mind versus what's on everyone else's minds.

[B]

You versus your mind versus everyone else. Yeah, I think that's what happens as a person of size or someone who's typically trying to get into a sport. And this happens all the time with people that I coach. It's literally them. So it's you trying to get off the couch and then all the thoughts about you trying to get off the couch. Ah, let myself go. Why did I do this? I wish I would stay with it. I was better in high school. All this other stuff. Right. So that's you versus your mind. So you're combating against that, trying to figure out like, all right, how do I talk to myself in a nicer way so that I feel good about trying this sport or restarting this sport again? And then you got the thoughts of other people who were looking at you. So it's like, oh, now that person's looking at me. Or you got the guy that's like, lose weight, get faster, or, you know, the wagon when I was running the race of like, hey, big man, get on this bus, like, quit. So then it's like, you got those people about you, and then you got your thoughts about those people as well. Of like, oh, like, it is true. Like, even the people confirmed it. Like, I am slow and I. I've let myself go and so on and so forth. Yeah. And that's a big battle to have as a beginner runner or a restarter in the sport. And I think, like, that is the biggest hurdle that we need to overcome just to go from zero to one.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's your top of the mind advice for people on battling their thoughts and battling their ideas about other people's thoughts?

[B]

Yes. So let's talk about battling their thoughts. So in the book, I talk about naming your inner critic. So we all have an inner critic. It's a part of us. And most of the time, our inner critic is in our voices. So it's like now it's you telling you, oh, you suck. Oh, you. You're a bad person. Oh, you left yourself a go away. Right. So one of the things that I learned was, well, if you give this inner critic a Persona, a voice, you know, a backstory, that then you're able to separate those thoughts of you and put it in the shell. For me, my inner Craig is named Otis. I named him Otis. And he's a drunk uncle who smokes packs of cigarettes to say, like, you know, you know, this is an uncle that may say crazy stuff, but you're old enough to, like, stand up to this drunk uncle to say, you're drunk. Go sit down somewhere.

[A]

Yeah, but that's Otis. That's not me.

[B]

That's not me.

[A]

That's Otis.

[B]

That's Otis.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So it goes with the notion of, like, not everything you think is true and not everything you feel is real. So if you can separate.

[A]

Well, say that one more time, nice and slowly. That's a good one.

[B]

To not everything you think is true and not everything you feel about yourself is real.

[A]

Huh. And if you do some more hard work to assign those things to the inner critic, you can also find your.

[B]

Way to separate those thoughts and feelings away from those two to really understand that, like, oh, these are just feelings. And just like anything else, these two things are temporary, and they will Pass.

[A]

Yeah. So that's the inner critic. What about the. The outer critics? Because that can really change a person's experience if they're thinking a lot about other people's judgment.

[B]

So my favorite thing is practice delusional self belief.

[A]

Delusional self belief.

[B]

Delusional self belief.

[A]

Okay, so what's that?

[B]

So everything is impossible until it isn't anymore. Imagine Thomas Edison being like, I'm gonna light New York City. And somebody's like, what are you talking about? We're gonna have these little gas lights and this candle, and that's gonna be it. He's like, no, I'm gonna light New York City. And then he goes on to do the work. And everybody thought that was impossible. Flying. You think you're gonna fly with the birds.

[A]

When you say it that way, it does sound preposterous.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But somebody had to have the mind to say, it can be me, right?

[B]

I'm going to run a marathon. Sometimes you have to be delusional with yourself to say, I'm going to do this, even if no one else believes into me.

[A]

Where do you think you got this permission to be delusional from?

[B]

So I grew up in a very rough neighborhood in very tough times. So I grew up on the east side of Detroit in a very tough time. Right before the age of 10, I had two brothers pass. And I remember being younger, and family members would tell me, you know, if you don't act right, you're gonna end up just like your brothers. And me being like, I'm not gonna end up like my brothers. Watch me, right? And not necessarily knowing what I was going to do to do that, but I found a way. I started playing football, and I ended up getting a scholarship.

[A]

So you have a long track record of putting your mind to something and really executing it. Yes, and that's important. And I'm sure that people see themselves differently in terms of that, you know, having that drive or not. And I'm also sure that most people probably underestimate the amount of drive they have.

[B]

So I think as we become older, we kind of tend to forget that all of this stuff is made up. Right? Somebody else made these rules, and it's up to you to subscribe to him. Say we had a baby here who was trying to walk. The baby might get up, may take a step, but might fall back down. We ain't gonna be like, you suck, baby. Ah. In your face. I knew you couldn't do it. Like, bad. That's what you get for falling. We're Gonna be like, no, like, come on, come on, baby, try again.

[A]

Yeah, we know to do that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

With young children to encourage them.

[B]

But somewhere along the line, you get adults and it's like, in your face. I told you, you can't do it.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

And it's more for me, really just trying to get back to that whole notion of, like, what would happen if we took the beginner's mindset and took the joy in going through the process versus being like, oh, I have to do this. These are the milestones that I need to get. And if I don't get to these milestones, I. I'm a bad person.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Let me tell you, Martinez, about my own relationship to running, which, I mean, it's non existent, is really like the shortest way to tell that story. But I'll, you know, I'll download an app and I'll kind of start and I'll get into it and I'll, like, make a playlist and I'll get, like, very excited about it for, you know, a month or two at a time. And then it just falls off for me. And I think it's because I feel a little aimless, like, I lose track of my. Why. One thing that really strikes me when I hear you talk about running and in your book is that you propose, like, what if running was about joy?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I think that that's actually a very radical idea when you think about it that way, when you frame it that way. What if you stop making it about getting faster, losing weight, all the things that people often make running about. And what if it was just about joy?

[B]

Yes, I think it's very radical because for the traditional sense, everybody thinks exercise equals weight loss. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So with me having this degree in exercise science, I understand that there's so many benefits to regular physical activity. So, yes, you may lose weight, but consistent running or exercise is better for your heart rate, your blood pressure, your A1Cs, and so on and so forth. And my thing was, what if the world just took weight loss out of regular physical activity, period, and just made it about these things? And Joy, like, would that cure this epidemic that they say that we have in with, you know, physical activity? And I think for a lot of people, we focus on this number on the scale, like, oh, you need to lose weight, the BMI score and all this other stuff? And it's like, well, you need to lose weight by diet and exercise. And then they do it and it's like, well, they may have lost some weight, they may not but then they gain it all back and then it's like, ah, it never worked. Don't do it no more. But my thing is like, we all should just be physically active.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Period.

[A]

Right. We know too much about the benefits.

[B]

We know too much of it. And I think that's the radical part of it is that I'm just trying to get people joy and to continue to move in spite if they lose weight or not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's more or less my approach and just really getting people to understand that you all gotta just find something that's enjoyable to you to start moving and all the other stuff will follow.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. What's your advice to people who want to love running? They think they should love running and they just haven't gotten there yet for whatever reason.

[B]

I would say it's okay. You may not have the love for running or you may have a love hate relationship with running, but one of the things I would urge you to do is to take some of the comparison out of Ronnie. My notion is that comparison is the thief of joy. And if you want to have joy, you can't have comparison. So start there. Let's take the comparison out. Let's not worry about you versus trying to get your personal best. Let's not worry about you trying to beat your friends. Let's just be and just see what being and just running looks like. Start there.

[A]

Martinez, thank you so much for coming in, for talking to me and for writing this book.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It's been really fun to talk with you.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Martinez Evans Book Slow AF Run Club the Ultimate Guide for Anyone who Wants to Run is out now. We'll link to it in our Show Notes page. If you like conversations like this, please follow Apple News in Conversation on Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. Thanks for listening.