Apple News Today

Episode: The little-known official quietly driving Trump’s second term
Date: November 1, 2025
Host: Shumita Basu
Guest: Andy Kroll (ProPublica reporter)

Overview

This episode investigates the enormous influence of Russell Vogt, the current director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), who has become a central architect of the Trump administration’s second-term agenda. Drawing on Andy Kroll’s extensive reporting for ProPublica and The New Yorker, the conversation unpacks Vogt’s radical vision to overhaul the federal bureaucracy, his ideology, his close working relationship with Donald Trump, and the unprecedented use of administrative power to enact sweeping changes across government agencies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Russell Vogt’s Philosophy and Rise to Power

• ProPublica’s bombshell video (00:36–01:21):
  • Vogt seen in 2020 advocating to “traumatically affect” bureaucrats, making them feel like “villains.”
    • Quote: “We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected... We want to put them in trauma.” — Russell Vogt [00:36–00:57]
  • Kroll reflects, “Why does this guy want to traumatize federal workers?” [01:21]
• Vogt is now back as OMB director and is “one of the most influential figures in the current Trump admin,” central to agency dismantling and mass layoffs. [00:57]

2. ‘Shadow President’ & Vogt’s Worldview

• Hardline approach to the ‘deep state’:
  • Vogt believes unelected bureaucrats have subverted democracy and must be rooted out. [02:25–04:15]
    • Quote: “He believes that a, quote, unquote, deep state bureaucracy has subverted American democracy... and needs to be dismantled, needs to be rooted out.” — Andy Kroll [02:58]
  • Sees the U.S. as facing not just administrative but "cultural disintegration," citing the "verge of a Marxist takeover." [04:15]
    • Quote: "The stark reality in America is that we are in the late stages of a complete Marxist takeover." — Russell Vogt [04:15–04:23]
• Vogt champions freezing funds for DEI, clean energy, and environmental initiatives, and penalizing universities for diversity efforts. [04:23–05:40]

3. Christian Nationalist Identity

• Vogt openly embraces the Christian nationalist label—believes the U.S. is and should remain a Judeo-Christian nation. [06:09–07:49]
  • Quote: “The phrasing is too accurate to run away from the term... I’m a Christian, I am a nationalist. And so we were meant to be a Christian nation.” — Russell Vogt [06:21–06:37]
• Rejects marriage equality, trans rights, and argues that other faiths are incompatible with his vision for America.
• Kroll notes the rare combination of policy expertise and doctrinal religious ideology Vogt brings to governance. [08:08]
  • Quote: “You don’t see those two braided together in the way that you do with him.” — Andy Kroll [08:54]

4. How Much Power Does Vogt Actually Have?

• Explaining OMB’s pivotal role:
  • Whereas OMB typically acts as a “loving but diligent parent” overseeing agency funds, under Vogt it has become “the kink in the hose,” withholding funds to enforce Trump’s agenda. [09:51–11:27]
    • Quote: “OMB has become the kink in the hose... holding back money that [agencies] are entitled by law to receive.” — Andy Kroll [11:27]
• Agency staff sometimes feel Vogt, not Trump, is their real “commander in chief.” [12:43]

5. Vogt’s Early Innovations: Impoundment and Executive Power

• Pioneered aggressive use of “impoundment” (withholding funds Congress allocated); this was central to the Ukraine funding freeze and Trump’s first impeachment. [13:18–16:07]
• Authored a lengthy memo asserting the president’s right to withhold spending, laying groundwork for future legal arguments. [15:30]

6. ‘Years in Exile’ and Planning for Trump 2.0

• After 2020, Vogt saw 2021–2024 as “years in exile”—a time to retool so “Trump 2.0” would avoid first-term mistakes and deploy its agenda from day one. [16:20–18:19]
  • Quote: “One of the things we did not do was reductions in force. And we honestly learned about it in our years of exile.” — Russell Vogt [16:40]
• Led the drafting of 350 executive orders and legal documents to be ready immediately after inauguration.

7. Project 2025: The Blueprint for Government Overhaul

• Vogt was “one of the architects” of Project 2025, authoring key sections about executive power and White House control over agencies. [18:49–20:17]
• Oversaw detailed plans and legal edicts so Trump “doesn't have to waste one minute debating what is legal or moral or doable.” [20:31–20:45]
  • Quote: “I don’t want President Trump having to lose a moment of time having fights in the Oval Office about whether something is legal or doable or moral.” — Russell Vogt [20:45]

8. Working with Elon Musk and DOGE

• On reentering office, Vogt’s OMB and the new Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE, led by Elon Musk) sometimes conflicted, sometimes worked “hand in glove.” [21:52–24:20]
• Together, they rapidly dismantled the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and USAID.

9. Vogt’s Relationship with Trump

• Trump’s trust in Vogt stems from his low profile and loyalty—not seeking TV stardom or personal acclaim. [24:30–26:25]
• Trump celebrated Vogt in an AI-generated “grim reaper” video, a badge of honor in Trump’s circle. [25:55]
  • Quote: “Russ vote is the reaper. He will depend the funds and the brain. Here comes the rebirth.” [25:55]

10. Ideological Loyalty and Apparent Contradictions

• Vogt stays “on the team,” even supporting Trump priorities that may contradict his earlier fiscal hawkishness. [26:38–28:29]
• He never publicly disagrees with Trump, despite potential differences on government spending.

11. Pushing Legal and Constitutional Boundaries

• Vogt frames aggressive powers (like impoundment) as justified by his interpretation of the Constitution—even though legal scholars, including conservatives, disagree. [29:19–30:51]
• Goal: get issues before a favorable Supreme Court to “change the rules of the game.”

12. Endgame & Historical Perspective

• Vogt sees the country at an existential crossroads— “a year that will rival 1776 and 1860”—and believes extraordinary actions are justified. [32:08]
  • Quote: “In the year of 2024, a year that very well, and I believe it will rival 1776 and 1860.” — Russell Vogt [32:08]
• Some officials believe Vogt’s changes could be so sweeping as to be irreversible, shaping government for generations. [32:18–34:31]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected... We want to put them in trauma.”
  — Russell Vogt [00:36–00:57]

• “The stark reality in America is that we are in the late stages of a complete Marxist takeover.”
  — Russell Vogt [04:15–04:23]

• “The phrasing is too accurate to run away from the term... I’m a Christian, I am a nationalist. And so we were meant to be a Christian nation.”
  — Russell Vogt [06:21–06:37]

• “OMB has become the kink in the hose... holding back money that [agencies] are entitled by law to receive.”
  — Andy Kroll [11:27]

• “I don’t want President Trump having to lose a moment of time having fights in the Oval Office about whether something is legal or doable or moral.”
  — Russell Vogt [20:45]

• “In the year of 2024, a year that very well, and I believe it will rival 1776 and 1860.”
  — Russell Vogt [32:08]

• On Trump’s trust:
  “Trump appreciates that [Vogt] trusts people who don't seem like they're trying to outshine him.”
  — Andy Kroll [24:30]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Vogt’s philosophy & trauma comment: 00:36–01:21
• Shadow President premise: 01:37–02:25
• Deep State and government overhaul: 02:25–05:40
• Christian nationalism: 05:40–07:49
• OMB’s strategic power: 09:51–11:27
• Impoundment and executive power: 13:18–16:07
• Project 2025: 18:19–20:45
• Dismantling agencies with DOGE: 21:52–24:20
• Vogt-Trump relationship: 24:30–26:25
• Pushing legal frontiers: 29:19–30:51
• Historical perspective and legacy: 32:08–34:31

Tone

The discussion is clear, analytical, and urgent—capturing both the technical wonkiness and the ideological intensity animating Vogt’s project, while always grounding the stakes in historical context and the realities of day-to-day governance.

Further Reading

A link to Andy Kroll's “The Shadow President” is provided in the show notes for deeper exploration of Russell Vogt’s pivotal role and influence.