The U.S. is turning 250. These songs unexpectedly changed American history.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Apple News Today

Episode: The U.S. is turning 250. These songs unexpectedly changed American history.
Host: David Greene (in for Shamita Basu)
Guest: Anna Harwell Celenza, Musicology Professor at Johns Hopkins University & Author
Date: June 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

To mark the 250th anniversary of the United States, David Greene sits down with Anna Harwell Celenza, author of Music That Changed America, to explore four key pieces of music that unexpectedly shaped American history and identity. Their discussion moves from the Star-Spangled Banner to "Strange Fruit," Paul Simon’s Graceland, and Hamilton, unpacking how these works bridged art, politics, and protest.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Star-Spangled Banner: A Song of Unity and Debate

Timestamps: [01:31] – [05:29]

• Origins: Written by Francis Scott Key during the War of 1812 after witnessing the resilience of Americans at Fort McHenry.
• Unexpected Background: The tune was originally a British drinking song (“To Anacreon in Heaven”).
• Political Symbolism: From early on, it was repurposed by various political groups, including suffragettes and abolitionists, as a protest and unifying anthem.
• National Adoption:
  • In the 1930s, amidst the Great Depression and political division, Congress sought symbols to unite the nation. The Star-Spangled Banner became the national anthem in 1931 after heavy lobbying from Maryland legislators.
  • It serves as a secular ritual at public events to foster collective identity.
• Enduring Debate: There's an ongoing cultural contest over what truly represents America, which Celenza connects to songs like "Lift Every Voice and Sing."

Notable Quote:

“From the very beginning, you had groups on the far right and the far left. You had suffragettes, you had abolitionists, you had folks that were pro prohibit... all using this song for their own kind of messaging and agenda.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [03:57]

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2. "Strange Fruit": Music as Protest and Catalyst for Justice

Timestamps: [05:29] – [10:55]

• Creation Story:
  • Written by Abel Meeropol, a white Jewish teacher, in response to lynchings in the 1930s.
  • Originally a poem, later set to music, performed at activist and Communist rallies.
• Billie Holiday’s Role:
  • Holiday’s performances at Cafe Society in New York made the song famous; “the entire room was just absolutely silent” ([08:13]), underscoring its power.
  • Mainstream labels refused to record it; an independent studio helped Holiday release it.
• Tangible Activism:
  • Copies and lyrics were sent to Congress by activists to push for anti-lynching laws.
  • Song became politically risky during the Red Scare; was revived by Nina Simone in the 1960s.
  • Its relevance extended globally, becoming an anthem for anti-apartheid activists in South Africa.
• Recent Impact:
  • “Strange Fruit” referenced widely when President Biden signed the Emmett Till Anti-Lynching Act (2022); a long-awaited legislative victory linked back to generations of protest.

Notable Quotes:

“This is a protest song that truly made a difference.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [06:13]

“Anytime folks are fighting against injustices, this song will get brought up... There is a real power to what this song is saying that I think people didn't give up on.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [09:18]

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3. Paul Simon’s Graceland: Cultural Exchange Amid Boycotts

Timestamps: [10:55] – [15:47]

• Context: Created during the international boycott of apartheid South Africa. The UN advocated avoiding cultural exchanges, but the U.S. never officially joined the boycott.
• Appropriation vs. Exchange:
  • Debate over whether Simon’s use of South African musical styles amounted to appropriation.
  • Celenza sees Simon as “a good tourist” — a respectful outsider drawn into authentic exchange, ultimately welcomed as “a guest” by South African artists.
• Role of Artists: Simon immersed himself in the culture, collaborated with local musicians, and later received Nelson Mandela’s public endorsement.
• Long-term Impact: The album sparked debates about the limitations and value of cultural boycotts versus economic sanctions.

Notable Quote:

“I think cultural boycotts are really dangerous. Cultural boycott is about thoughts and ideas and culture... I think if you are doing cultural exchange, you could be an invader... but you could also be a tourist, and you can be a good tourist.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [12:47]

“It's about person to person and artist to artist... that's kind of where peace happens, because you're not looking at someone as sort of a stereotype of a particular nationality.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [15:20]

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4. Hamilton: Reinterpreting America’s Founders for a New Era

Timestamps: [15:47] – [21:16]

• Artistic Motivation: Lin-Manuel Miranda’s project began out of joy and fascination with American history and hip-hop, not as a policy statement.
• Cultural Phenomenon: The Broadway opening coincided with the rise of a divisive political climate (2015–2016 election), which heightened the show’s political resonance.
• Dynamic Reception: Politicians and the public began interpreting characters and messages through the lens of current events — sometimes at the expense of engaging with the music itself.
• Art vs. Celebrity: Celenza laments a shift from appreciating art to focusing on celebrities’ political associations, losing the deeper societal conversation music can inspire.
• Notable Incident:
  • The tense but civil audience-cast exchange when Vice President-elect Mike Pence attended a performance; Pence responded with openness, highlighting the potential for actual dialogue, even as media and online discourse “bickered” ([21:16]).

Notable Quotes:

“Lin Manuel Miranda wanted to say we shouldn't just cancel the Founding Fathers because of their flaws as humans. What's important about the Founding Fathers is not who they were as people, but the ideas that they set pen to paper.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [18:56]

“Where I think things have gone a little wrong is I think that in the last election, we stopped listening... that's not about the art, then. That's about the celebrity.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [19:37]

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5. The Enduring Power (and Fragility) of Music in Public Life

Timestamps: [21:16] – [23:12]

• Vital Role: Losing the connection between music and politics risks stripping society of tools for empathy and joy. Literature, music, and all arts expand perspectives and human flourishing.
• Access Challenges: With threats like book bans and debates over internet openness, ensuring access to art remains crucial.
• Music as Imagination & Empathy: The arts help people envision new realities and find solidarity.

Notable Quote:

“If we lose the arts, if we lose... novels and poetry and songs and even art, you know, visual artworks, they enable us to imagine a world that we don't live in or to get to know someone that we maybe don't encounter in our everyday lives.”
— Anna Harwell Celenza [21:54]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• On protest and the anthem:
  “From the very beginning, you had groups... all using this song for their own kind of messaging and agenda.”
  — [03:57]

• On "Strange Fruit":
  “This is a protest song that truly made a difference.”
  — [06:13]

• On cultural exchange:
  “You could also be a tourist, and you can be a good tourist... and if you are a good tourist for long enough, eventually you'll be a guest.”
  — [12:47]

• On Hamilton’s impact:
  “It's not a documentary. This is a piece of art... Lin Manuel Miranda wanted to say we shouldn't just cancel the Founding Fathers because of their flaws.”
  — [18:56]

• On the role of the arts:
  “They enable us to imagine a world that we don't live in or to get to know someone that we maybe don't encounter in our everyday lives.”
  — [21:54]

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Anna Harwell Celenza and David Greene trace the evolving relationship between music and American identity. Each highlighted song not only marked key moments of protest, unity, and change but continues to shape how Americans understand themselves and one another — underscoring that the soundtrack of a nation is never finished.

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For further reading, visit the show notes for a link to Anna Harwell Celenza’s book, Music That Changed America.

Transcript

[A]

This is in conversation from Apple News. I'm David Green in for Shamita Basu. Today the music that changed America. This summer marks the 250th anniversary of the United States, and many of us are taking time to reflect on our history and the forces that have made America what it is today. As I was reflecting on how to mark this milestone, I thought about an art form that unites us, brings us joy, and has the ability to affect great music.

[B]

I wanted to have us see the power that music can have in our political world.

[A]

That's Anna Harwell Chilenza, a musicology professor at Johns Hopkins University and the author of the book on the Music that Changed America. Her book tells the story of a range of musical works, from the Star Spangled Banner all the way to Hamilton, that whether the artist intended to or not, changed how Americans think about the issues that define us and sometimes even motivated lawmakers to act. I sat down with Anna to explore her four favorite examples from the book, how they show up in our lives today and why music is at the heart of America's story. We can't talk about our nation having a big birthday without talking about the Star Spangled Banner.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you do focus on that in the book and talk about that. The song really was imbued with different meanings and different political purposes over its lifetime. Let's start with what the political climate was, you know, when Francis Scott Key composed these lyrics in 1814.

[B]

Yeah. So we were in the sort of final bits of the War of 1812, and. And Francis Scott Key was a lawyer. He lived in Washington, D.C. but he was also in Baltimore. The British had just basically burned Washington, D.C. to the ground, and Baltimore was sort of the last holdout. So he witnesses this bombing of Fort McHenry, and the next day sees that despite the British bombing, the Baltimoreans had hung in there and the American flag goes up as the sun comes over the horizon. And he writes these lyrics with sort of this great feeling of victory and patriotism and this sort of thing. Right from the beginning, though, he picks a tune called To Anacreon in Heaven. It's a song that had been written in Britain. It was a men's drinking song for a sort of aristocratic men's club. And that's sort of how the song takes off. It doesn't become the national anthem until 1931. And in all that time in between, there were lots of songs that were kind of negotiating to be the song that gets used at official events to represent the United States. I also should note, I put this song in connection to Lift Every Voice and Sing, which was composed around 1900. And the reason for that is, I think we are still sort of having a debate in our society about what does represent America. And that's a theme I talk about in a lot of ways. What's the American sound? What's the American idea? What's the American concept? And so the Star Spangled Banner, from the beginning, was a protest song. I mean, people got upset when Colin Kaepernick took a knee and said, oh, how dare you do this? But from the very beginning, you had groups on the far right and the far left. You had suffragettes, you had abolitionists, you had folks that were pro prohib.

[A]

All using this song is for their own kind of messaging and agenda.

[B]

Exactly. It's like, hey, let's add a new lyric and change what this song means.

[A]

Why was this song, the Star Spangled Banner, ultimately chosen as the song? What was that conversation like in the 1930s?

[B]

Well, first of all, the Maryland senators and members of the House of Congress were very adamant about. They wanted this to be the one. So they fought very long and hard.

[A]

Lobbying has always been alive and well in our country.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. But the big push was the fact that we were really witnessing the height of the stock market crash from 1929, and our country was economically in a shambles. We were divided very strongly politically. There was the far right and the far left. There were those who were very, very wealthy and those who weren't. And so what you see in the 30s is Congress working really hard to come up with ways to unify the country. And the Star Spangled Banner was one of those things. They wanted to create some secular rituals so that there are things we do in public spheres that make us feel united. And so the Star Spangled Banner became that. Like we are at sporting events before classical music concerts at high school graduations. This is the song that we are gonna stand up and put our hand over our chest, and we are going to sing this song together. And that will create a sense of unity and coming together.

[A]

Well, I want to move to another song. You know, in 2022, President Biden signed the Emmett Till Anti Lynching act into law. Far too late, I think I would say, and so many people would say. But the song Strange Fruit, which I know most of us really associate with the incredible singer Billie Holiday.

[B]

Southern trees bear a strange fruit Blood on the leaf and blood at the roof.

[A]

Talk about that song and how it played a role in finally getting an anti lynching act signed by a US President.

[B]

Yeah. So this is a protest song that truly made a difference. And as much as you said that Biden was too late in doing it, at least he did it in 2005. You had the Senate actually apologize for the fact that they have never passed federal anti lynching legislation. So this was a tune written by Abel Meeropol. He was white, Jewish, card carrying, member of the Communist Party. He was a high school teacher in the Bronx. And he sort of witnessed what was happening for the good and for the bad as far as race relations in the United States. He had a very integrated sort of childhood growing up, had good friends that were black, went to school with them. But as we get into the 1930s, we see lots of lynchings. And you see the NAACP and the Communist Party of the United States of America really talking about it, saying, this is horrific. This should not be happening in this country. And I should say the Communist party in the 1930s was very much about equality. And as Abel Meeropol read and witnessed more and more descriptions of horrific lynchings of black Americans, he one day just reacted and he wrote a poem. So he published this in a teacher's magazine and then he set it to music. He and his wife Ann sing it, perform it at communist rallies, trying to kind of say, look, we've got to get some anti lynching legislation going in this country. And then in 1919, he finds out about this new club called Cafe Society. It was the first integrated, racially integrated club in New York City where the performers and the audiences were black and white. And Billie Holiday was the house singer and it was recommended to him. You know, this song would take on a really different meaning if you could get her to sing it.

[A]

One of the most important decisions probably ever made in the history of important songs like this. And you describe kind of the talk about imagery, like the scene when Billie Holiday would perform this song. Like everyone would stop. They would stop serving drinks and stop clanking and the entire room was just absolutely silent. So everyone could digest the words that she was singing.

[B]

Pastoral scene of the gallant song,

[A]

your

[B]

bulging eyes and the twisted mouth. And then when she recorded it, her recording company was like, we're not touching this. So she went to a small independent record store, actually, that had a recording studio in New York City and recorded it and it took off.

[A]

Yeah. What was the impact it had? Like, what role do you think this song played in ultimately getting federal anti lynching legislation passed and signed by a US president?

[B]

Well, first of all in the 30s and the 40s, you had people buying copies and sending them to members of Congress. You had the Theater Action Council, which was this sort of arts group that was very politically engaged, printing the lyrics and sending them to everybody in the state. And then because of the sort of anti communism in the 1950s, and the song kind of got linked to that. And so a lot of people had. Not Billie Holiday, but a lot of people who had sung the song got blacklisted as being communist. And so the song kind of dropped for a little bit. But then in the 60s, when Nina Simone was putting her protest music out there, she's like, I'm going to record this again. And then the song took off. Scent of magnolia, clean and fresh. Then the sudden smell of burning flesh. So it's one of those things that anytime folks are fighting against injustices, this song will get brought up. It got brought up in South Africa during the apartheid. It got sung a lot. So there is a real power to what this song is saying that I think people didn't give up on. And I rem they passed federal anti lynching legislation and I was thrilled. And I remember watching on TV as Biden signed it and kind of following the social media feed and all these people were putting up links to Strange Fruit.

[A]

Well, you bring up apartheid and South Africa and that brings up another musician and an album that you've given me a greater understanding of and its role kind of in our country and in our American songbook. Paul Simon, his 1986 album Graceland, which I. I mean, I felt like he was bringing, you know, South African, African culture into our music.

[B]

I'm going to Graceland Graceland in Memphis, Tennessee I'm going to Graceland Poor boys and pilgrims with families and we are

[A]

going to Graceland had no idea that there was controversy around his decision to go and sort of study South African music and bring it home. What is important for us to know about that 1986 album that we might not know?

[B]

Oh, I think the most important thing is it was during an era of cultural boycotts. And so just to set the scene, the United nations was very much trying to pressure South Africa to get rid of its apartheid legislation, which is basically legally separating blacks and whites, pushing black South Africans out of their homes and pushing them into other lands. Batustans at the called them. So the UN is against that. Many countries are against that. Reagan has just recently become president. So there were people pushing for various boycotts, economic, political, but also cultural boycotts in a way of this will pressure South Africa to stop this, the government to stop this.

[A]

Well, and also when President Reagan, he decided not to go forward with some of the economic boycotts, saying that that was not necessary, that racial justice was going to come with time, which I'm sure was leading some people who were pushing for these cultural boycotts to do even more to put pressure on the Reagan admin.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. There is definitely a lot of conversation, a lot of debate going on. I'll just personally say I think economic boycotts do work. I mean, we've seen that happen. I think cultural boycotts are really dangerous. Cultural boycott is about thoughts and ideas and culture. So that meant academics couldn't interact. That meant you couldn't perform with South Africans. It meant you couldn't invite artists from South Africa to come to the United States. So Paul Simon, around this time, hears some music. He gets this tape and it' got some instrumental music of South African bands, black South African bands. And he's like, oh, my God, I've never heard anything like this before. There's something about the rhythms that are in there and some of the harmonies. I feel a link to the music I grew up on, but it's also so different, and I just want to be a part of this. And so he goes over there, rents a studio with his label, helps him, and he records with a bunch of bands. Before he goes, he spends like six months, like, getting any recording he can and studying the music so that he is going over there sort of in an informed way. And the big debate that comes up is some people go, oh, well, he was a, you know, a powerful white guy, and he went over there and he appropriated and he took their music and then he came over and made this album. I don't think that's a fair assessment. And to kind of set it up as a metaphor, I think if you are doing cultural exchange, you could be an invader. Like, you can go into this other place and take what you want and bring it back. But you could also be a tourist, and you can be a good tourist. And a good tourist is someone who goes into a place and says, I don't know anything about this, and I completely understand that. I'm an outsider, but I am just so fascinated. Let me be a part of this. And if you are a good tourist for long enough, eventually you'll be a guest. They'll invite you to come in. And I think that I would like to think of it that way with Paul Simon. The one thing I would say about that is first of all, the US even at this time, never officially engaged in a cultural boycott. So Paul Simon never did anything illegal or wrong. Or wrong. The UN had called for this, but the UN didn't have any control in that way. But Paul Simon said, I don't feel like as a musician, I have to go to a politician and say, can I go sing a song with this other person? So I think the important thing is it's about person to person and artist to artist. And so I think that's kind of where peace happens, because you're not looking at someone as sort of a stereotype of a particular nationality. You're actually connecting with someone on a human level.

[A]

Well, Nelson Mandela thought of it that way. Right. I mean, Nelson Mandela, after getting out of prison, like, I mean, appeared with Paul Simon and endorsed the album.

[B]

Yeah. And then brought him back, said, now you have to be the first act to come and tour South Africa. I mean, he was invited back as a guest.

[A]

Well, I think one of the biggest sort of intersections of politics and music in recent time in our country is Hamilton, the blockbuster Broadway show, and Lin Manuel Miranda, the music. I mean, it's so interesting to me because I think of that intertwined in our politics. I think about Lin Manuel Miranda's personal progressive agenda. But that show remind us of its origins, because this was not Lin Manuel Miranda wanting to send some sort of political message in this moment. Right. It came from a different place.

[B]

No, it came from, honestly, a place of joy and being very happy about sort of living in this time and this place and this country. It was in 2009 that he kind of first got the idea for this. I should say he was already famous for having written in the Heights, which had won, you know, the Tony Awards. And when President Obama came into office, one of the first things he and Michelle did is they started having these evenings of poetry and word. Poetry and music. And so Lin Manuel Miranda got invited. Everyone assumed he was gonna sing a song from in the Heights. But instead you got up and he said, you know, I've got this song about someone who, you know, really embodies the nature of, like, hip hop and the power of the wor. And it's Hamilton. And everybody laughs and the world is gonna know your name.

[A]

What's your name, man?

[B]

Alexander Hamilton. His name is Alexander Hamilton. And there's a million things he hasn't done but just you wait Just you wait it's the most powerful performance. It's like a piano and Lin Manuel Miranda, like, doing the opening song to Hamilton, he was thinking it was gonna be a concept album. He wasn't thinking of this being another musical when he first did it.

[A]

It's amazing. But then what's so interesting is the Broadway opening in the summer of 2015 happens just as the first Republican debate of the 2016 election cycle is taking place. And then, of course, you know, President Trump comes in to office. Like, was this an example of just sort of the political climate in our country totally changing how a piece of art and a piece of music was going to be received and digested?

[B]

Yeah. And in fact, at that debate, there were a lot of people that brought up the fact, Isn't this funny? That Hamilton just officially made on the same night that this debate is happening, and then started talking about the various Republicans in this debate, like, as if they were various characters from Hamilton. So it was kind of fascinating, if I may say. I love Hamilton. I think it's an amazing piece. It frustrates me when people will critique it because there's some historical element that didn't get discussed to their liking. And that sort of. This is not a documentary. This is a piece of art. And I think we have to remember when it was written and why it was written. And Lin Manuel Miranda wanted to say we shouldn't just cancel the Founding Fathers because of their flaws as humans. What's important about the Founding Fathers is not who they were as people, but the ideas that they set pen to paper. And we still are not yet, you know, the land of the free, home of the brave, but we're working towards that. And so to have that multiracial cast to make us sort of see what is America. And as Lin Manuel Miranda said, he wanted to tell a story about America. America then, by an America that exists now. And I think that was a powerful thing. Where I think things have gone a little wrong is I think that in the last election, we stopped listening. We stopped listening to the music. So, yes, music was represented, but not by any pieces. It was represented by. There's Beyonce and there's Taylor Swift and there's Lin Manuel Miranda, and they're standing next to my candidate. That worries me, because that's not about the art, then. That's about the celebrity. And so that is a very different scorecard from. Oh, my God. Did you hear that song? That song is so powerful. You know, that made me feel something or think something in a different way.

[A]

You know, it makes me think of that moment after one of the showings of Hamilton where Mike Pence was in the audience and There was this very tense exchange between some cast members wanting to send a message to Mike Pence about, you know, he and President Trump and their immigration policies.

[B]

Vice President Elect Pence, we welcome you, and we truly thank you for joining us here at Hamilton and American Music. We really do. We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us.

[A]

And Mike Pence actually said, I think a day or two later, like, I had no problem with the cast wanting to say those things to me. I heard the remarks that were made at the end. And you know what? I can tell you I wasn't offended by what was said. Like, if it just ended there, that, to me, was sort of a beautiful interaction because it was artists wanting to kind of underscore a message, and it was a politician saying, I'm okay hearing that. All the reaction afterwards was sort of, I don't know, like, the worst of our society and how we grapple with moments like that.

[B]

Yeah, there was just a lot of

[A]

bickering after that as we Talk here in 2026 and hit this 250th anniversary of our country. And you think so deeply about music. If we lose this connection between music and kind of our politics, what are we missing as a society?

[B]

Well, I think we're missing a lot. I would start there by saying, I don't think those things are missing. I think there are musicians that are doing all of those things. The problem is how do we get to hear them? And so I guess my worry is that the Internet stays open, that net neutrality continues, that people have access to these sorts of things, because if we lose the arts, if we lose. And I don't just mean music, but there's lots of book banning that's happening now with literature, I think. I think novels and poetry and songs and even art, you know, visual artworks, they enable us to imagine a world that we don't live in or to get to know someone that we maybe don't encounter in our everyday lives. And so it just helps us kind of see the world a little bit broader. Maybe it helps, you know, create more empathy for people who are not like yourself. But. But even more than that, I think it gives us a sense of joy. I mean, I would say with all of these works that I talk about, there is a sense of what we call human flourishing. And I think if we just focus on how do we commodify this and how do we make money from this, we lose the ability to really listen to a world that kind of speaks to our hearts and speaks to our thoughts and gets us to think about not just our place in the world, but how we can help other people find a place in this world.

[A]

Anna, thank you so much. I loved talking to you about this.

[B]

This was great fun. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

[A]

We'll include a link to Anna Harwell Chalenza's book on the record Music that Changed America on our Show Notes page. And every weekend end you can find new episodes of Apple News and conversation in the Apple News app. Just tap on the audio tab, the little headphones at the bottom to find.