Podcast Summary: Apple News Today – "This science writer has seen Earth’s most amazing places. Here’s what she’s learned."

Date: January 24, 2026
Host: Shumita Basu
Guest: Elizabeth Kolbert, Pulitzer Prize-winning science writer and New Yorker staff writer

Episode Overview

In this episode, Shumita Basu interviews Elizabeth Kolbert about her decades-long career reporting on Earth's most extraordinary places and ecological changes. They discuss Kolbert’s new book, Life on a Little Known Planet: Dispatches from a Changing World, which collects essays exploring disappearing species, cutting-edge research, the intersection of technology, nature, law, and humanity's profound impact on the planet.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Experiencing Earth’s Wonders Firsthand

• Kolbert’s immersive reporting:
  • She has visited regions such as the Amazon, the Great Barrier Reef, and the Andes’ cloud forests.
  • Maintains a sense of awe at “ecologically spectacular places” while confronting unsettling environmental truths.
• Quote:

  “Our science is so marvelous and miraculous… And at the same time we are just sort of willy-nilly wrecking a lot of the planet.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 00:58)

2. The Insect Apocalypse – Racing to Save Unknown Species

• Essay spotlight: work of entomologist David Wagner (UConn):
  • Wagner races to catalog US caterpillar species before extinction renders them undocumented.
  • The process involves on-the-ground searches, plant-specific methods using “beating sheets,” and painstaking cataloging.
• Importance of insects:
  • Kolbert highlights their central role in ecosystems as pollinators, decomposers, and the base of food chains.
• Quote:

  “If you want to discover a new species, you should look for an insect… Without them, ecosystems would just crash.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 03:39)

  • She describes Wagner’s wish for readers to “make eye contact” with caterpillars through photography despite the irony that “caterpillars don’t see very well.” (05:14)

3. Using AI to Decipher Whale Communication (Project CETI)

• Research using AI on sperm whale clicks:
  • Project CETI aims to decode the complex communications of sperm whales by training AI on recorded clicks, akin to a “click-GPT.”
  • Raises philosophical challenges (e.g., AI understanding whales in ways humans cannot).
• Memorable field moment:
  • While tracking whales, the team witnessed a rare whale birth, seeing a “huge puddle… of red”—possibly a unique event (08:10).
• Quote:

  “It is possible… you could come up with one of these models that could… communicate with the whales, but you as a human wouldn’t know what was going on.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 07:41)

4. The "Rights of Nature" Movement

• Legal efforts for environmental protection:
  • Discusses cases where bodies of water were granted legal rights (e.g., in Florida, briefly before state override; also in New Zealand and Ecuador).
  • Debate about whether nonhuman entities (rivers, forests) should have standing and rights.
• Historical basis:
  • Movement builds on Christopher Stone’s “Do Trees Have Standing?”
• Quote:

  “It strikes people as radical… but then when they start to think about it, they’re like, yeah, that makes sense.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 12:13)

  • She argues that always litigating on human terms “is sort of why we're in the mess that we're in.” (13:53)

5. Technological Solutions and Their Limits

• Carbon dioxide removal (CDR):
  • Technically feasible but energy-intensive; only makes sense with abundant clean energy.
  • Emphasizes the necessity of coherent, consistent policies and long-term investment.
• Quote:

  “It is not going away. So all of these things that require a 10, 20 year research effort, we should be pouring resources into right now.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 16:40)

6. Reflections on the Paris Agreement and US Policy

• Paris Agreement context:
  • Initially salvaged international climate commitment by encouraging countries’ voluntary contributions.
  • Critique: ambitions since have stagnated; US withdrawal was a “huge thumbing your nose at the global community.” (18:12)
• US political climate:
  • Inflated hopes after the Inflation Reduction Act (2022), now largely dismantled.
  • Disheartened by persistent science denial:

  “You cannot have disagreements about whether carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas… We are also seeing exactly what climate scientists predicted literally 50 years ago.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 19:36)
  “The idea that we are still having this… insane argument over whether climate change is real. That's just troglodytic.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 20:49)

7. Paths Forward: Aligning Incentives and Taking Action

• No single solution, but essential steps:
  • Need incentives aligned with decarbonization (e.g., charging for CO2 emissions).
  • With the right incentives, progress could accelerate due to human ingenuity.
• Quote:

  “If you incentivize them to find solutions… we would certainly make progress.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 22:31)

8. Kolbert’s Closing Advice: Rediscover Local Nature

• Urges curiosity and attention:
  • Go outside, observe, and connect with nearby wildlife, even in an “overgrown lot.”
  • “Pay attention and you will be rewarded for that.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 23:28)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Our science is so marvelous… and at the same time we are just sort of willy-nilly wrecking a lot of the planet.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 00:58
• “If you want to discover a new species, you should look for an insect… Without them, ecosystems would just crash.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 03:39
• “I want to capture them. I want people to make eye contact [with caterpillars].” – Elizabeth Kolbert relaying Wagner’s philosophy, 05:19
• “It is possible… you could come up with one of these models that could anticipate what the whales are going to say… but you as a human wouldn't know what was going on.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 07:41
• “It strikes people as radical… but then when they start to think about it, they're like, yeah, that makes sense.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 12:13
• “It is not going away. So all of these things that require a 10, 20 year research effort, we should be pouring resources into right now.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 16:40
• “You cannot have disagreements about whether carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas… It is why we're all here.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 19:36
• “The idea that we are still having this… insane argument over whether climate change is real. That’s just troglodytic.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 20:49
• “If you incentivize them to find solutions… we would certainly make progress.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 22:31
• “Go out, take a walk, look around… Pay attention and you will be rewarded for that.” – Elizabeth Kolbert, 23:05-23:28

Key Timestamps

• 00:30–01:15: Kolbert on witnessing Earth’s wonders and science’s duality.
• 01:54–06:08: The “insect apocalypse,” fieldwork with David Wagner, making emotional connections with overlooked species.
• 06:39–09:31: Using AI to decode whale communication, the limits of understanding, witnessing a whale birth.
• 10:58–14:06: Legal rights for rivers, forests, and “nature,” global cases, and philosophical implications.
• 14:46–16:51: Carbon dioxide removal technology and policy challenges.
• 16:51–18:49: Paris Agreement retrospection and US climate politics.
• 18:49–21:14: Disappointment over the rollback of US climate progress, science denial, and sea level rise threats.
• 21:35–22:52: Needed actions: realigning incentives, societal and policy changes required.
• 23:05–23:33: Kolbert’s advice for relating to the planet—get outside and observe.

Tone and Takeaway

The episode blends Elisabeth Kolbert’s characteristic mix of wonder, rigorous science reporting, and clear-eyed realism about environmental crises. Kolbert is pragmatic but hopeful: discoveries and solutions are possible if society aligns incentives and pays attention to our shared world—both through the lens of technology and simple acts of observation.