#345 - Cormac's Continued Architectural Summer Adventures

Summary

Archispeak Podcast #345 - "Cormac's Continued Architectural Summer Adventures"

Hosts: Evan Troxel & Cormac Phalen
Date: August 21, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Cormac recounts his spontaneous architectural road trip through the American Northeast and Atlantic Canada, with stops at iconic architectural sites, meaningful family heritage spots, and, ultimately, an in-person meeting with one of his architectural heroes, Brian MacKay-Lyons. The episode blends travelogue with reflections on architecture, placemaking, and the intersection of personal and professional journeys—capturing the “real-life” essence that Archispeak is known for.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Travel Logistics, Motivation, and Planning

• Cormac shares his rare use of PTO and the catalyst for his trip—family milestones and a need for adventure.
  • “I took that needed and rarely ever used—do they call it—oh, yeah, PTO.” (03:10 Cormac)
• The trip was partly a surprise for his wife, marking both their 25th anniversary and her 50th birthday.
• Spontaneity: Despite some minimal planning, most of the trip’s moments were unplanned adventures and happy accidents.
  • “We paced ourselves, made it kind of an adventure.” (06:12 Cormac)
• Architectural pilgrimage: Cormac always finds a way to turn a family trip into an exploration of architecture, with his wife being a patient co-pilot.

2. Architectural Stops along the Way

Yale University (New Haven, CT)

• Visited Louis Kahn’s Yale Art Museum and Eero Saarinen’s “Whale” hockey arena (Ingalls Rink)
  • “It’s interesting, beautiful…it’s kind of interesting because I’m curious what everybody thinks of that building.” (09:04 Cormac, on the Kahn museum)
  • “The Whale is actually Eero Saarinen’s hockey arena on Yale’s campus…and amazing. Everything you come to expect and love out of Saarinen’s work.” (09:48 Cormac)
• Emphasizes the importance of seeing iconic buildings in their urban context and how they interact with the life of the campus and surrounding city.

Driving Up the Coast

• Explores coastal Maine’s small towns and notes the vibrancy of “business loops” off the highway:
  • “The business loop is where the life of the town actually is.” (12:25 Cormac)
• Challenges of finding accommodation during peak season and reflecting on the omnipresence of camper vans (“Prepaid hotel. That’s all that is.” – 13:38 Angelo).

Prince Edward Island (PEI)

• The centerpiece of the trip was a visit to Anne of Green Gables Historic Site, fulfilling a lifelong dream for Cormac’s wife.
  • “She’s a huge fan…And so where it was filmed, where it took place, and where the author was born and raised was in Prince Edward Island.” (06:26 Cormac)
  • “My wife cried when she saw it because it’s totally a part of her life.” (19:58 Cormac)
• Observations on the international draw of the site and reflection on place as character.
  • “The environment, shall we say, the architecture affects people.” (20:28 Cormac)
  • “They can actually become a character…think about Kubrick films…” (20:50 Angelo)

Halifax, Nova Scotia

• Cormac’s family roots connect back to Nova Scotia and Newfoundland; he highlights a visit to the Canadian Immigration Museum to trace his ancestry.
  • “You can actually go see the records…which was amazing.” (28:24 Angelo and Cormac)
  • “There’s a lot of Scandinavian, Irish, and Scottish in Newfoundland, Labrador and Nova Scotia.” (29:09 Cormac)

3. Meeting Brian MacKay-Lyons & Architectural Regionalism (Lunenburg, Nova Scotia)

• Story of meeting architect Brian MacKay-Lyons, a personal hero, in Lunenburg after connecting at the AIA Conference in DC.
  • “Here you are. It’s just like, oh, you don’t want to meet your heroes kind of thing. And, you know, again, I appreciate the work that he does. I appreciate the regionalism.” (33:42 Cormac)
  • “Here’s somebody who’s in tune with the place and is developing a language of architecture that is drawing inspiration from the place.” (36:10 Cormac)
• Discussions in the Lunenburg office: MacKay-Lyons shares local insights, recommends regional sites, and offers Cormac a window into his creative geography.
  • “He pulled out his iPad and we zoomed around the islands, and he was showing me all of these favorite places…” (41:25 Cormac)
  • Cormac reflects on the importance of developing architecture rooted in “place,” referencing both personal and professional influences.
• Touring the MacKay-Lyons “farm” property:
  • Visits iconic projects like the Slide House and observes the evolution of MacKay-Lyons’s work—how materiality, weathering, and landscape shape the architecture.
  • “You see this evolution of his work. You see the Slide House…” (45:03 Cormac)
  • “All of these are so beautifully blended in that they look like they belong there.” (48:36 Cormac)

4. Experiencing Other Cities: Quebec City & Reflections on Urbanism

• Quebec City: Cormac is captivated by its European qualities, urban vibrancy, and architectural preservation.
  • “Quebec City. Wow. Like old Quebec City, man—urban planning. It is the closest thing to France outside of France.” (56:06 Cormac)
  • On street life and public space: “The street activity is so very European…they use every space.” (59:44 Cormac)
• Discussion on the differences between American and European (Canadian/Quebecois) approaches to placemaking and main street vibrancy.
  • “There’s just something very, very American about our main streets versus their very European versions...” (58:56 Cormac)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Architectural Spouses:
  “Let me preface this by saying that I do have a wife that appreciates architecture and does actually enjoy some of these side trips.” (07:22 Cormac)

• On Place and Story:
  “One of the two main characters of the stories is Anne Shirley and the Green Gables House. And so the people came from all over the world.” (20:49 Cormac)

• On Spontaneity:
  “I guess I’m just holding strong to that—just making it up as you go along—kind of like travel philosophy.” (18:32 Cormac)

• On Meeting MacKay-Lyons:
  “I walk up and like, Brian. And he like turns around and it’s like, hey, I remember you. I’m like, good—because if not, this will be creepy.” (39:03 Cormac)

• On Regionalism:
  “Here’s somebody who’s in tune with the place and is developing a language of architecture that is drawing inspiration from the place.” (36:10 Cormac)

• On Seeing the Evolution of an Architect’s Work:
  “It’s just so cool. You can see almost like you’re looking at an anthology book…and you can see it in the landscape.” (49:57 Cormac)

• On American vs. Canadian/European Urbanism:
  “There’s just something very, very American about our main streets versus their very European versions…” (58:56 Cormac)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:54 – 08:39 | Cormac’s trip planning and the surprise for his wife (Anne of Green Gables pilgrimage)
• 09:04 – 11:46 | Yale architecture tour (Kahn’s and Saarinen’s work)
• 11:47 – 13:38 | Observations of coastal Maine towns and the “business loop”
• 15:06 – 22:43 | Arrival at PEI, Anne of Green Gables, and place as narrative character
• 26:14 – 32:32 | Halifax, Nova Scotia – immigration roots and museum visit
• 33:32 – 36:06 | Meeting Brian MacKay-Lyons, architectural regionalism
• 41:25 – 49:57 | MacKay-Lyons’s property: Slide House, “of the landscape,” and architectural evolution
• 56:03 – 59:51 | Quebec City and reflections on urban vibrancy, French Canadian culture

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Episode Tone & Style

The tone is conversational, witty, and occasionally self-deprecating—with a healthy dose of architectural geekery. There’s a genuine sense of wonder, gratitude, and reflection as Cormac connects personal narrative, family, and professional curiosity into one sprawling adventure. Evan’s (Angelo's) frequent jabs and running commentary keep the episode light and entertaining.

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Concluding Thoughts

Cormac’s “accidental architectural sabbatical” brings together big ideas: the way place shapes story, the ongoing relevance of regionalism in architecture, and the vital importance of journeying through spaces, both familiar and new. The episode is as much about how architects experience the world as it is about the buildings themselves.

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For more details, images, and links to discussed projects, check the Archispeak show notes.

Transcript

[Cormac]

Look, we're wearing khakis. Torso khakis.

[Angelo]

There was a time where I only bought things in the gray shade, like the. The cool colors, because it was just so much easier to, like, put something together if you got the warm colors and the cool colors. Now all of a sudden, you're getting dressed in the dark closet in the morning, and you come out looking weird.

[Cormac]

Well, you know, if you hire an architect, they might design a light for your closet.

[Angelo]

The problem is you wake other people up. That's the problem. There is a light in the closet.

[Cormac]

But I look at it this way, you know, they're. They're supposed to be awake. Everybody's supposed to be awake, right?

[Angelo]

I look at it this way. You're on my schedule. That's what I think. You do think that. Because when we were in D.C. you're, like, up super early or what we call super late or what we call.

[Cormac]

On the east time, know, Eastern time zone. Normal time.

[Angelo]

Normal. You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cormac]

I was. I was awake pretty early.

[Angelo]

Little earlier than me.

[Cormac]

Yeah. All of you west coasters were like, what? Yes. I need coffee first.

[Angelo]

I hate traveling to the east coast just because of the time difference. That's the worst part of it, for sure. It's like the flight. It takes forever to get there. Like, traveling west is better. Come on. You know it. You actually get your time back when you travel west.

[Cormac]

It's like a surprise when it come home.

[Angelo]

It's like, it didn't even take that long. Come on. Yeah, yeah. So, okay. You have continued Cormix Architectural Summer Adventures. What. What is going on? What is in the water? How did this work out? I mean, it's just one thing after another. We've chronicled it on this podcast, and I think we're going to continue to chronicle Cormac's. How can I fit another C word in here? Construction. That doesn't sound right. Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to ask for a cormix.

[Cormac]

Chronicling Cormix curiosity.

[Angelo]

There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cormac]

There.

[Angelo]

So catch us up. There you go. Another C word. Catch us up.

[Cormac]

Catch us up.

[Angelo]

Since it has been a while since we've talked. Various reasons. I mean, some are just this happens, but other reasons as well. But.

[Cormac]

And whatever.

[Angelo]

Whatever you're willing to share. I would love to hear what. What has happened in your chronicles.

[Cormac]

I took that needed and rarely ever used do they call it. Oh, yeah. Pto.

[Angelo]

Pto.

[Cormac]

Yeah. So, yes. Decided to go and visit the office and just had this Weird bug where, like, okay, we're coming. Now's the time if we're going to take any time off, to take some time off. Just a little week. But if you're. If you plan it right, weeks usually end up being, like, you know, 10 days. If you're. If you're smart. If you're smart and you, like, kind of do everything. And I tried to be good. And so it was this particular trip back east. Back. All the way to the East Coast.

[Angelo]

Yeah. Much shorter trip back east than my trips back east. But still. But still, here you are.

[Cormac]

Was going to be one where the whole family wanted to go back, but because of a concert that my son had already bought tickets for, he was going to stay back. But then he was going to come later, and I thought to myself, all right, are you really going to come to Maryland and, you know, visit with friends and everything? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's great. Okay, so what I'm gonna do, like, ask my wife. I'm like, how about this? Kids go back to Michigan on their own because they're adults and they can do that. Just so you know, when you're raising kids and stuff and you're just. You don't.

[Angelo]

You're there.

[Cormac]

You don't. Yeah, exactly. You just don't pick. You made it right.

[Angelo]

Good job. A pat on the back.

[Cormac]

Exactly. So I said, I. I basically asked her. I was just like, what do you think about driving up the east coast and going to Nova Scotia? She's like, are you serious? Like, yeah, why not? We've got passports. We'll travel. Right. And with the. With the knowledge that. What it. I mean, just you.

[Angelo]

You live across the street from Canada, but you're. You're talking much farther.

[Cormac]

I'm talking much further away. Much, much further away. Because I'll explain that in a. In a skosh. In a Nova Scotia.

[Angelo]

In a Nova Scotia.

[Cormac]

There you go.

[Angelo]

There's the title.

[Cormac]

All. All of the. All of this was kind of a ruse because one of the things that I wanted to do for our 25th wedding anniversary. And she'll probably kill me, but she doesn't listen to the show, so she can't. Yeah. Is her 50th birthday was this year as well. And so I've been calling this year 29.

[Angelo]

29.

[Cormac]

Sure, we'll go with that. Whatever.

[Angelo]

Yep.

[Cormac]

Now, actually, she. She owns up to it. She's like, okay, I've earned it.

[Angelo]

At some point that the switch gets flipped. And you have earned it. Right?

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Angelo]

Denial, denial, denial. I've earned this. Damn it.

[Cormac]

Exactly, Exactly. So, all right, so this was all sort of a ruse because I, one of the things that I wanted to do for our wedding anniversary is she is a massive fan, watches it all the time. I bought her the box set, the DVD set of Anna Green Gables. She's got the book series, everything. So she grew up watching the movies, quoting the movies, quotes the movies too. My daughter, all the time. And so she's a huge fan, which is great. And where it was filmed, where it took place, and where the author was born and raised was in Prince Edward Island. And so that was really the plan is that, sure, we'll go to Nova Scotia or. Well, but really where we're going is we're going to go to Prince Edward island, but we had a long trip and we weren't going to take this trip, try to like pound out, I don't know, somewhere around the neighborhood of like 13 to 1500 miles in like a day or two. We paced ourselves, made it kind of an adventure. And so as we were driving, I found the opportunity to say, hey, I think we need to stop for a break. Took the opportunity to stop in multiple places just to break it up, but also do some exploring. And one of the first stops was in Yale. Well, New Haven, Connecticut. And I'm like, you know, I think there's some, some Louis Kahn buildings here and I think there, there might be an Aero Saarinen building here. And so the good thing is, is let me, let me preface this by saying that I do have a wife that appreciates architecture and does actually enjoy some of these side trips. So I'm not, it's not an un.

[Angelo]

Especially if they're amazing, right? Yes, it doesn't hurt. And okay.

[Cormac]

And so the art museum by Kahn got a chance to get out, walk.

[Angelo]

Around the art museum. You didn't go to Texas? What are you talking about?

[Cormac]

No, no, the Yale Museum of Art.

[Angelo]

Okay, so I'm hearing this for the first time now too, listeners. So Cormac needs to give a little more context here.

[Cormac]

I don't have any of the pictures up to flash to you guys right now, but, but we'll, we'll put em in the show notes. We. So obviously there's a few Louis Kahn buildings on Yale's campus, one of them being an art museum. And that one, it's, it's interesting, beautiful. Like, you know, you're driving down the road and it like, because of the way that the road kind of shifts right as you're at a light you're staring right face to face with it. And it's kind of interesting because I'm curious what everybody thinks of that building.

[Angelo]

Because what came first, the building or the road?

[Cormac]

Yeah, probably, I want to know. Probably the road, because there's a lot of old.

[Angelo]

Well, then he, that. But yeah, lucky.

[Cormac]

Yeah, that's good. And then we saw the whale, which if anybody knows what the whale is, the whale is actually Aero Saarinen's hockey arena on Yale's campus. And amazing Yale whale. Just an amazing building. Everything that you come to expect and love out of Saarinen's work. This beautiful kind of like rolling concrete that you just look at and you're like, how, how.

[Angelo]

I'll tell you what I would expect and love is some images via text or Instagram from you along this, this trip. Geez. What? You are seriously slacking.

[Cormac]

You are right, you are absolutely right about that. Because I, you honestly, you've gone internal here.

[Angelo]

You've, you've gone dark on us.

[Cormac]

I, I took, I took some pictures and I did post some pictures, but not a lot. And I am way behind because I do have a lot of pictures to take.

[Angelo]

Because you have a lot to go through.

[Cormac]

I have a lot to go through. And as you can imagine, what is, what is the, what is the one thing that happens to you when you come back from a vacation?

[Angelo]

You start working. Yeah. You decide, dress.

[Cormac]

But what, but what is inevitably the issue when you come back is that you are bombarded with everything. Hey, Cormac, while you were gone, you know, we did this, this, this and this. And we really need you to kind of take a look at this.

[Angelo]

Well, you got to do it along the way, however imperfect it may be. Yeah, I, you got to be in the moment. You gotta, you got, we need to, you need to allow us to be.

[Cormac]

In the moment with you. So that, Exactly. So that is why. But I will say that I just tried to be present for my wife.

[Angelo]

No, I appreciate, I, I can appreciate that.

[Cormac]

You know, just giving you a hard time here. Totally. I, I, I, I get it and I understand because here we're going to be talking about like this little architectural trip that I took with no visual aids. You're just gonna have to draw it out of me of like, what did you see?

[Angelo]

Look it up. Look it up, people. Look them up.

[Cormac]

Coastal Maine. I mean, what can I say about coastal Maine other than the fact that dam. Damn, it's bucket list. It's these, it's these. Just amazing. So the thing that I Started to appreciate on this trip because one of the things that we did is we got. We took a lot of, like, side trips into the old downtown. You know, the downtowns that the highways pass by.

[Angelo]

Cool.

[Cormac]

And you got to see the way the town actually lives.

[Angelo]

In America, they call that the business loop.

[Cormac]

Yes. Yeah.

[Angelo]

Well, off the highway, the. Right.

[Cormac]

Yes. But the business loop is where the life of the town actually is. And so it was just amazing to kind of, like, stop at some of these little small towns in Maine. Yes. We actually did drive through Kennebunkport and did not get a chance to get. So we. Because of. We were driving to. I don't know if. And this is not a sponsor ad, but I don't know if you've ever used the Hotels Tonight app.

[Angelo]

No, but you tell me about it all the time.

[Cormac]

I tell you about it all the time.

[Angelo]

How useful it is.

[Cormac]

So what we.

[Angelo]

I have a travel trailer. My hotel is on the back of my truck.

[Cormac]

This is true. This is true. And I. Gosh, you know, I will say that I. I kept seeing all of these camper vans and campers and kind of like the. The little adventure vans now that everybody has.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And just kind of looked at them as. Just think of how much money I could be saving if I wasn't trying to find a hotel.

[Angelo]

No, those. Those. You just spend all the money up front and then.

[Cormac]

There you go.

[Angelo]

Slowly. Very slowly. Get it back.

[Cormac]

There you go. There you go.

[Angelo]

Prepaid hotel. That's all that is.

[Cormac]

Something must have been going on in Maine. Where? From Portland to Bangor, Maine, there was nothing. There was no hotels available. There was recalled. We honestly, not only did we use the app, we looked at other apps. We looked at hotel apps. We looked at everything. There was not a room to be had anywhere. I have no idea. We've experienced this a few times where we were just driving and they're like, sorry, hon, but we're booked up because there's a convention in town. And, like, within 200 miles of wherever that convention was, there wasn't anything. We experienced this.

[Angelo]

It seems like on the east coast, that would be, like, more in the fall because of just the fall quarters and things like that. I mean, maybe it's just summer vacation. We.

[Cormac]

We were told you were looking for a hotel, and we were. It was the weekend. And so we were trying to find a hotel as we were driving up the east coast on a weekend where. A summer weekend where everybody has already got it booked up. Which I can appreciate that because we stopped and Looked at some amazing views. I could not convince my wife to just get an air mattress and put it in the back of the truck and crash out there. But she wanted what was called a real bed.

[Angelo]

What? What's that? Yeah. What kind of adventure was this?

[Cormac]

I know, geez. I know. There was no sense of adventure. But. But what was amazing about it is we did happen to find like all of. Not only just like the, the great little downtowns, but also had the opportunity to find some masterworks and Yale. I had, I had never been to Yale. I've never been to New Haven, Connecticut. And as someone in higher ed, it was actually great to just. We got out and we walked around campus and just kind of there. There was a lot of different, like alumni events seemingly going on. There were new student tours and stuff. And so you got to see kind of like how both students and alumni were interacting with the university. And it's good to see because this is what we do. Like, this is what, you know, this is what I've been doing for the past decade of my life is working on higher education buildings and campus planning and things like that. And to, to honestly see them in both, like the active days of. During the school year, but also how, how do they stand up and how do they live through summer off, you know, beyond peak hours? And it was great to just see. It was. It's a very, very active community. Very active. Like even if the school's not in town, you know, people, Townies are walking through campus. But it was, it's just a, It's a cute, cute town. Cute town, cute city. Because it is actually a decent sized town. City, town, city, town. What do you want to call it? Whatever it is, New Haven. You're a city to me. Or town, I'm sure. But, um, I know that there might be somebody who's listening who is a Yalie that will correct me on this. I'll just wait for that one email.

[Angelo]

Cormac.

[Cormac]

Yeah, I'll. I'll wait for that input. Um, but it, it was great to just again, not have to convince my wife to go and look at. She did, however, refuse to get out when I was walking around the. The whale because I. She was done. She was tired, she had enough. She was hungry, and I had to go see a building instead of feed her.

[Angelo]

Priorities, man, priorities. Concrete job.

[Cormac]

Concrete over caviar woman.

[Angelo]

It's your 25th wedding anniversary. I'm going to go see some architecture real quick. Hang on.

[Cormac]

You know, I did find a nice Italian restaurant, had A, a fantastic five course meal. Um, and then hit the road with half of it in a box because she wanted to go and find a hotel. Um, she wanted to at least make it to Maine. And then we made it to Maine. Kept. And then realized that we'd have to keep driving for a while. I will say that driving to Canada, probably any foreign country, but when you're crossing over the border on the ground and they start asking you all sorts of questions about, about why you're there, can we see your itinerary and all this other stuff. And you're trying to convince them that you are a sane person and safe person and you have no itinerary. You're making it up as you're going along and you only have one area that you actually have reservations for the rest of the days that you're doing. You're just going to try to figure it out when you're there. And they looked at me so skeptically. Yeah.

[Angelo]

Like no one does that anymore.

[Cormac]

I guess I'm just holding strong to that, like just making it up as you go along. Kind of like travel philosophy.

[Angelo]

It should be allowed. Yeah.

[Cormac]

But the border guards were, were highly suspect. They, you know, you, they were like, do you have any weapons on you? Like, no. Do you have any weapons in the car? No, it was just like, I'm not that kind of American.

[Angelo]

Okay.

[Cormac]

No, no, no. She was, she was very like skeptical about the whole thing. I'm like, no, I seriously, not that one. You know, not that guy. So it was, it was really sort of interesting. So then we get to Prince Edward island was our first destination and we did everything. Anne of Green Gables. Yes. They have the Anne of Green Gables Historic site. Because even though the book is a work of fiction, it still is all based off of the writer's childhood and life. And so where she lived and the adjacent property that was patterned after Green Gables actually are real buildings and were where her, her cousins lived. And so like a lot of the stories that she was telling about the main character, Anne Shirley was all based off of actual places and that you could visit. And so of course my wife cried when she saw it because it's, it's totally a part of her life. And, and, and this was, the thing is like, you know, this is, it was so like amazing that there were people from all over the world. I am not, that is not hyperbole all over the world there visiting this site. And it goes to show you how, you know, not only story, but even like the places in story that.

[Angelo]

The backdrop.

[Cormac]

The backdrop. Yeah.

[Angelo]

Or the. Yeah.

[Cormac]

The environment, shall we say, the architecture affects people. And because, like, the main. One of. One of the two main characters of the stories is Anne Shirley and the Green Gables House. And so the people came from all over the world.

[Angelo]

They become a character.

[Cormac]

Right.

[Angelo]

I mean, that. That is interesting about space and places, that they can actually become a character. Think about Kubrick films, right?

[Cormac]

Oh, absolutely.

[Angelo]

The hotel and, you know, there's, you know, the Psycho house, and there's. There's so many examples of that kind of thing. And it actually is a character in. In the story. It's pretty incredible.

[Cormac]

Right, right.

[Angelo]

So for her, I bet it was extremely, like, not only nostalgic, but just cathartic to actually go. I'm sure she imagined herself there someday.

[Cormac]

She imagined herself there all the time as she was just like, I think I was. I was reborn from. I lived in the. The Victorian era. You know, she says, I know I did.

[Angelo]

Past lives.

[Cormac]

Yeah, exactly.

[Angelo]

And.

[Cormac]

And so.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

But she's also just pictured herself on the cliffs, the Cavendish Cliffs, where, you know, like, some of the main scenes in the book and in the. In the movies take place. And so there, of course, we were to. To celebrate. And this was a belated celebration because, I mean, we did have a. An actual, like, on the day of our wedding anniversary, but time, family commitments, and everything else got in the way.

[Angelo]

Yeah. I just recently had an anniversary, and I got. I got flowers for my wife, and I'm. I'm not complaining at all. I love my wife's response. She's like, what are the flowers for? I don't. I'm not. I just think. I always think it's so funny.

[Cormac]

Well, I. We've done that so many times. We've been sick on our anniversary. You know, somebody's been out of. I was even out of town at an AIA convention spending time with you rather than my wife.

[Angelo]

Oh, yeah.

[Cormac]

You know, there's been all of these different occasions where, like, we just don't celebrate it the way that normal people do.

[Angelo]

That's how things work. That. That's normal life right there. Yeah.

[Cormac]

And this time, I. I, you know, said, like, this is our 25th. We've got to do something special on this one. And she wasn't expecting anything, and I wasn't even letting her know, so she thought that our wedding anniversary was.

[Angelo]

Oh, so this was like an internal monologue that you were having. We need to do something special for this. That was you talking to you, talking. Okay.

[Cormac]

Yeah. She you know, again, wasn't expecting. She was probably, you know, expecting the oh, what are these flowers for? You know, kind of thing. And we did have a nice dinner together and spent some. A weekend antiquing, I believe that was. And that's what she thought. Our wedding anniversary, wasn't she? In her own words, she was like, oh, this is perfect. Like, you're.

[Angelo]

You are officially old. We spent a weekend antiquing.

[Cormac]

What's sad about antiquing now is when.

[Angelo]

You go in, it's not even, like, really antiques anymore.

[Cormac]

It's when you go, oh, I had that when I was a kid.

[Angelo]

Yeah, it's stuff from the 70s.

[Cormac]

The totally total side note here, if you go to the Henry Ford Museum in the Detroit metro area, they have this whole area dedicated to everything we grew up on. Everything we grew up on. There's the first Mac, there's Simon, there's all of these things. There's like, all of these things. And you're like, yeah, I had that. I had that. Oh, Commodore 64.

[Angelo]

Oh, I wanted that. Yeah, exactly. Whatever it was.

[Cormac]

Or. Or I wanted that.

[Angelo]

Or I had a friend who had.

[Cormac]

That and I noticed it.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

Oh, look at these rich people had this kind of thing because they. They even have, like, a teenager's bedroom set up. You're like, what is the typical teenager from the 80s?

[Angelo]

That's awesome.

[Cormac]

And you look at it and you're.

[Angelo]

Like, just a time capsule.

[Cormac]

And what was funny is, like, the last time we were there, I was standing around with a bunch of other Gen Xers, and I just looked at them. I'm like, well, we're museum pieces.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And they all just look at, like. And they. Every one of them just kind of like, drop their head, shake it a little bit.

[Angelo]

Yeah, those are the days. Come on, people.

[Cormac]

But what was great about PE island was it's just this little. Little bit of exploration. Because look at you.

[Angelo]

You're like a local calling it PE Island.

[Cormac]

I don't even know if the locals. Although you.

[Angelo]

You've adopted it as your second.

[Cormac]

Although I will say that when I'm. I don't want to jump ahead in the story, but there was somebody who definitely called me out as. Yeah, you can tell you're not local. Was their exact words to me when I said a certain word.

[Angelo]

And there you are.

[Cormac]

Exactly. So not. Not a local.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

Although there's an interesting accent in PE island where it's kind of. It kind of almost is a mix between Irish and Minnesota. There's like this interesting accent and you.

[Angelo]

Could probably like, actually detect the path.

[Cormac]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So, you know, that was it, like.

[Angelo]

You know, except you're talking about, like, kind of a reversal of.

[Cormac]

Exactly. Well, no, because. So like, everybody. So one of the other reasons why we wanted to go there is this. This is. Nova Scotia has roots in my family's history. And so, you know, like, my family immigrated from Ireland to Nova Scotia. From Nova Scotia to the United States. And there's still a lot of my family that had immigrated originally from. From Ireland to Nova Scotia. Still in Nova Scotia, in fact, a lot. And I'll tell you why in a sec. But. And so that was one of the reasons why we wanted to go to this. Go on this trip as well, is because there's family history as well. So we decided to explore Prince Edward island and drive around there as much as we can and see as much as we can. It's not that big. So if you're not deliberately staying at one of the resorts or like a local who really kind of knows where you're at, you know, you sort of like, yeah, sort of not a lot to see it all pretty quickly. You can see it all pretty quick. So when we did. So we decided, let's go down to Halifax and explore around Halifax. We took a. A ferry across the. The North Atlantic from Prince Edward island to Nova Scotia and kind of like drove in and then ultimately ended up driving into to Halifax. And what's amazing is you can see the roots of Halifax being a old fishing town, but also a major seaport for where a lot of immigration happened. A lot of immigrants came to Canada, but they came through Halifax. And so Halifax was sort of the Ellis island of Canada.

[Angelo]

Right?

[Cormac]

So fair enough. They've got the. The Canadian Immigration Museum. And so of course, we had to go there because I kind of wanted to see, look at some of my, you know, family history and just see kind of like, okay, when did my grandparents actually come over from Ireland?

[Angelo]

So you have access. You can actually go see the, like, go through the records.

[Cormac]

And, you know, that's. Which was amazing. But what was even more amazing about it is, is that the U.S. census has actually got my grandmother's or my. Sorry, my great grandmother's birthplace wrong. She was not born in Ireland. She's actually been in Canada for generations, but in. In Newfoundland and like, a lot of her family. And so she had immigrated from Newfoundland to. To Nova Scotia kind of back when there was like, no real. Like, they weren't necessarily part of Canada in the way that they Are now they, they were like kind of these individual providences. There was a lot. So there is the, and you'll, you'll appreciate this with your family lineage. They, she came from. Their family did come from Ireland, but their other parts of her family also came from the Nordic region, the Scandinavia. And so there's a lot of Scandinavian, Irish and Scottish in Newfoundland, Labrador and Nova Scotia. And so there's now, now I have for a future trip even more to explore because these are like islands.

[Angelo]

I would have had you look up my grandmother's side of the family if I knew you were there. Because yeah, there's my, my dad's side, his mother's side came through that way. The Patrick and family. So Ireland to Canada to.

[Cormac]

There's Kansas. Well, there's still a little bit of, of lineage history that I need to look up and it's my connection through my grandmother to the Troxels.

[Angelo]

Oh, that's right.

[Cormac]

That's right. I still need to figure that out. So, yeah, yeah. So it was really interesting. And so as we know, because we had already talked about this, that if I was going to be in the area, if I was going to be in Nova Scotia, there's one person that I was going to be looking up.

[Angelo]

For eagle eyed listeners right now. They may remember a previous conversation of something that happened at the AIA conference in Washington D.C. in June.

[Cormac]

Somebody geeked out.

[Angelo]

Maybe catch everybody up. Give, give everybody again a little bit of context.

[Cormac]

So at the AIA convention in June, I was at the Lake Flo discussion on design. And me and our, our buddy Brett were sitting near the front row and I'm sitting here chatting with him and all that other stuff and he's kind of like bumping me, he's like elbowing me. He's like, hey, hey, there's your boy. And I'm like, what? What? And then at first I didn't see who. You know, I saw Steve Ehrlich. Oh, hey, Steve Berlick's there, you know, kind of like walking by. And then I saw Brett's like the other one.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And then I saw walking next to him, Brian McKay Lyons. And so when I had confronted him, which sounds like a very harsh word, you stopped him. I was going to. I, I was not politely, politely stopped. I was again not going to be that guy that followed him in the bathrooms. But when I turned the corner and realized, oh, they're in the bathrooms, I'm not going to do that, but met him out in the corridor, we sat and we chatted I had mentioned to him that we'd be coming into Nova Scotia and he's like, oh, you got to look me up. And so I did. Which was great. I did. Which was amazing. But so as we're sitting here, we're chatting and again, he's very much like the border guard. It's like, oh, we're only going to be there for a little bit of time and trying to explain to everybody this is just a scouting mission. This isn't, this isn't like the big grand. We've already made a pact with ourselves that the next time we go back, it's a two week vacation. It is not a like two day vacation here, two day vacation there. And then we're kind of out. It is a. We're. We need to like it. It. It was more. I. The whole thing was basically all about getting my wife to Green Gables and her experiencing that. That was. And, and yes. And then, so then the follow up. And yes, I still wanted to. But so, so the story behind the story behind the story. So. So we did go to Lunenberg, which is where Brian, one of Brian Mc. So Brian McKay line has got. Or McK Lyons Sweet Apple is the firm. But Brian McKay Lyons has got his office in Nova Scotia. He has an office in Lunenberg and he actually also has an office in Portland, Oregon, because they are doing. I'm saying you need to get him on the podcast.

[Angelo]

And that's all I'm saying.

[Cormac]

I'm thinking we might be able to. Okay, let's do it. And so, so who's funny is here?

[Angelo]

You.

[Cormac]

Here you are. It's just like, oh, you don't want to meet your heroes kind of thing. And you know, again, I appreciate the work that he does. I appreciate the regionalism. I mean, you know, regionalism. Regionalism is something that I learned to love and appreciate through the rural studio and the teachings of Sam Mockbee and all of these other. Some. A lot of the architecture firms that I really like are regionalists. Really? The Marlon Blackwells?

[Angelo]

Well, yeah, I shouldn't say most architects, but I would say, you know, people kind of specialize.

[Cormac]

It's. It's different though, when we're talking about. I don't really want to say starchitect, but I guess starchitect. It's like they're like, you know, Sam, in your eyes.

[Angelo]

In our, in our eyes.

[Cormac]

You know, you know, Sam Mockbee, you know, he practiced in the Southeast and it was all about like the, the, the reinterpretation of the way that people lived, especially, like the trailer and.

[Angelo]

Right.

[Cormac]

And, you know, in the evolution of that in the materiality and everything else. And it was just some amazing work that he did. And it's this. You see the same thing with a lot of these architects and. Too many to name, but sure. You know, Faye Jones, all of these other ones.

[Angelo]

Schindler.

[Cormac]

Schindler, exactly. All of these people that they really were developing a language of their area. Right. You know. Yeah. And. And. And I can. I. Materiality. Right. All kinds of things, honestly, because of, like, the emotional connection that I have. Or like this. This. It's this weird emotional draw to Nova Scotia that I have that, of course, I never knew anything about. Only because of the fact that I knew my grandfather was born there. I knew that my family had immigrated to there. So I had this just draw. And the more and more I was learning about it back in the day and then into architecture school and learning about Brian. It's just this amazing stuff. It's just like, you know, here's somebody who's in tune with the place and is developing a language of architecture that is drawing inspiration from the place. And to finally get a chance to actually see where he.

[Angelo]

I just have to say, like, Rand Elliot. Right.

[Cormac]

Like.

[Angelo]

Like an amazing example of that kind of thing.

[Cormac]

Ray Daliot, of course. It's just like, to finally get a chance to see, like, where, you know, the place where he draws a lot of his inspiration from for the work that he does. It's just like. Yeah, I get it. I get it. This is this. You can see the. The lifeblood of the work that he does in the place that he's from. And it was just amazing to see it. So, like. So, like, we. We pull up and the first thing we do is we pull up and show my age again there. You know, Evan. We pull up in front of an antique store. And so we go into there first. And then I'm. I'm kind of like, rushing here. I'm like, I wanna.

[Angelo]

This is how you break the ice when you go to a new location.

[Cormac]

Exactly. It's just my. My wife truly believes that we are going to find that. You know how you hear all these stories of, like, people who find, like, these hidden treasures of, like, hey, I bought a. A Picasso for, like, 50 cents at.

[Angelo]

I just saw a video of somebody who scored, like, two Eames lounges with. With ottomans at a. Three of them, actually.

[Cormac]

So.

[Angelo]

Right. And it was like.

[Cormac]

Behind me is a knockoff Eames lounger, but not not the Plycraft one, but a Sellig one, which is a little bit closer to, like, more. It's closer to the, the style of the Herman Miller Eames lounger, but got the whole thing for 300 bucks. And still, you know, great condition. It's still a mid century seat. It looks, it's in great condition and all that other stuff, especially with the.

[Angelo]

Bouquet and in your image here, like, you can't. It's perfect.

[Cormac]

I know.

[Angelo]

It's a great, It's a great archespeak prop.

[Cormac]

Yeah. Every time I sit there, it's just like, yeah, no, it's. No one can see it there. There was one.

[Angelo]

You're covering it up.

[Cormac]

There was one where. One setup that I had that. It was actually over my left shoulder here. You could see it. But anyway, so behind the scenes of the arcuspeak podcast, so I, So I finally say, you know, hey, there's a building I want to go check out down there, which happened to also be his building that he did is this code.

[Angelo]

Like, your wife has got to know what that means.

[Cormac]

So, so we're walking. So we're walking up and I see, Hey, I see this, this, this guy all dressed in black standing outside this building with his back towards us. And I'm like, hey, there's Brian McKay Lyon. She goes, the building. I'm like, no, no, the dude.

[Angelo]

The. The.

[Cormac]

The dude. And so she's like, all right, see you later. She like, she let me kind of like scurry up there and you know.

[Angelo]

I walk up, go, fanboy. Go fanboy over there.

[Cormac]

Yeah, totally. And so I walk up and like, Brian. And he like turns around and it's like, hey, I remember you. I'm like, good.

[Angelo]

Yeah. Nice. Nice.

[Cormac]

I'm glad. Because then this will be. Because if not, this will be creepy.

[Angelo]

I'm here.

[Cormac]

Exactly. So we had a few conversations before I left anyway, you know, just to kind of let him know that I was going to be in town and that if he was even remotely around, I'm going to be knocking on his office door. And it's such a. It's a great little office. It's a smaller satellite office probably. I don't know, maybe a six, seven person setup that just fits in beautifully with his old fishing village. Did I not send you pictures of Lunenburg of like, the.

[Angelo]

I don't. Yeah, I think you did, because it reminded me of some stuff I visited in.

[Cormac]

Yes, very. In very. And it draws a lot of. From those coastal. Those coastal fishing villages in, In Europe, you know, in the North Atlantic. And just, you know, those very, very vibrant colors, you know, these. And so you had the.

[Angelo]

It's very picture.

[Cormac]

It is, yeah.

[Angelo]

And the scale is very small of everything, but it's just kind of. It's really beautiful how it is just kind of organically grown over time. And you can just see it.

[Cormac]

You can.

[Angelo]

You can see the layers. Right. It's incredible.

[Cormac]

And it made beginning this wrong and. Exactly. So it is a united. It's a UNESCO World Heritage district, and it is one of two in North America, and I believe Quebec City, I could be wrong, is the other UNESCO World Heritage district, which, by the way, to just, you know, just, just, just dropping that name there. But. And so we sat there and we talked for a while. My wife was. Was sitting there and we just had it.

[Angelo]

You told me that you talked to them, and I'm like, and you recorded it, right? Come on.

[Cormac]

I should have. I should have. You know, I. I should have.

[Angelo]

But I bet, I bet it would have been. It would have been cool.

[Cormac]

Oh, the thing. It was so fun, though. But because. So we talked about a lot of things, including American politics, which I just say right now, not a fan. So he isn't. Which who would be. Yeah, and it's. Oh, my gosh, it's so like in recent years. And I'm not even going to go here, but I am going to at least just say that in, in recent times, in the many different client meetings with overseas clients, and then with the meeting with Brian and all these other people, people are talking. The world is talking about America and the world is talking about American politics, and none of it is favorable. But. And I'm going to move on because this is not the show and we ain't talking. But what was. What was amazing. And this was just like, for him to give me this time was great because we sat there and he pulled out his iPad and we zoomed around the islands, and he was showing me all of these, like, favorite places and stuff like that. He's like, you know, this is not too far of a drive. Go see this. And that's the best way to get out anywhere.

[Angelo]

Just you. You need someone like that who could just say, you need to do this and this and this and this. And that's the best kind of tour guide there is.

[Cormac]

Because, yeah, he was like, he goes, obviously you're not doing it now, but the next time you're here, you need to go and spend some time here, because this is the most amazing place on The. In Nova Scotia. And it's like on the far end, closer to where my people are from. My people. And, and so, and, and so we were just. He was like walking through his favorite spots, his favorite locations, places that you, as a local, you know, when you're just sitting there with pride talking about your place, you know, that was. That was the time that I got from him, which was just amazing because that's cool. Again, this is like, I sort of always lament about some of the choices that I made about how. Of what I practice, because I've been at firms that were small firms that were deeply rooted in like, say, St. Petersburg when I worked for a small firm there, which now a friend of mine owns, and how deeply rooted it is in, you know, creating a language of architecture that's based off of the place it is. And to be. And again, like I said, to be sitting there in his office and you can kind of see the inspirational roots of all of. Maybe not all, but. But most of the work that he had on display. And then you see like all of these nice physical models that he's built from the, you know, like the Slide house or the two hole house and all of these other houses and stuff that.

[Angelo]

Can you talk about that real quick before you. I mean, just, Just talk about that property and what's going on there? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people who've never heard of that.

[Cormac]

Okay, so I mean, if you want.

[Angelo]

To finish what you're doing and then.

[Cormac]

No, no, no, no. Because all of it actually leads into. So he's like. He. He basically said. And he. He may have said this, and I may have interpreted it as, oh, why don't you just drive out to my property and drive around and you can look and see all of this stuff. He may or may not have said that, but that's what I heard and that's what I did.

[Angelo]

Yeah. So talk about the property and so the farm, because.

[Cormac]

Yeah, this is amazing because, like, so some of the houses that I was introduced to his work are on his property. And it's this big, big property overlooking the Atlantic Ocean on the rocky coast of Nova Scotia. And there you just see all you. You see like this. What's amazing about it is you see this evolution of his work. You know, you see the Slide House, which is. If anybody is familiar with the Slidehouse, and if not, we can put a link to the. To his website that you're gonna have.

[Angelo]

To put links to all these.

[Cormac]

Tons of links. But the slide house is basically the, the, the hill is sloping and you basically, you took this box and it looks like the box is like, you know, falling, sliding down the hill, but it's really not in. But the. Then you have like this horizontal line of the windows cutting through that, you know, is what appears to be diagonally cutting through, but it's basically cutting through the plane. And so it, the diagram is very clear.

[Angelo]

The party of the design is very.

[Cormac]

Clear and the execution is very clear too, going back to that whole like idea and execution thing that I've been talking about. And so, so, but, but I mean, like all of these houses that I became familiar with his work, there's a lot of them in this, in this area. And then there's some evolutions of some, some newer stuff. These cottages, there's the ghost cottages or there's his own personal houses there. And then there's a lot of Airbnb rentals and stuff that he now has that were part of, I think his, his ghost studio that he had at one time. I did find out that they do offer like, I don't know if it's a summer internship or something that, you know, basically you, I guess, I guess come work for him and also live and work on the farm. He'll be working on the farm too. Like, I'm curious if there's an age cut. Yeah, drag my 54 year old penny out there.

[Angelo]

I could make it work.

[Cormac]

I mean, if, if he needs me to shear the, the sheep that were roaming around the farm, I can do that. I can do that. I can do that.

[Angelo]

Just watch some YouTube videos, I'll be there.

[Cormac]

Look, you know how many times you and I have done mechanical work on vehicles by YouTube? I'm pretty sure, look, I've watched Clarkson's farm. Yeah, I can do it. If he can do it, I can do it. But I mean there was just amazing work out there that just like, it was, it was so funny. It's like I was driving uphill and you're basically driving uphill and you're like staring up into the sky. That's how like the steep the, the slope is. And I can't see the crest of the hill and I like, you know, you just kind of like feel it. Your, your vehicle drop kind of creep over the top. So you creep over the top and then it just opens this view up to like, you get to see like all of the Atlantic, the Atlantic coast of his property. And you, you just, and then it just opens this view of like all these works of his, dotting the. Dotting the horizon and dotting your objects.

[Angelo]

And it's just like landscapes.

[Cormac]

Oh, my gosh. And they're so in, you know, like what we were talking.

[Angelo]

And they're all different.

[Cormac]

They're all different, but, like what we were talking about with Frank Lloyd Wright in his philosophy of being of the landscape and not on the landscape.

[Angelo]

Oh, that's right. You know, the quote he had that. Well, but I mean, the architecture is more organic than nature.

[Cormac]

Well, no, not that. Not that one. But just the, you know, being of the landscape rather than on the landscape is. All of these are so beautifully blended in that they look like they belong there.

[Angelo]

You know what's interesting, though, is they are so different and yet you can kind of see a thread because of that. Maybe because of that regionalism you were talking about, but it's like materiality, the way that they weathered over time. All that is a. Is a big part of it.

[Cormac]

I think it's pretty incredible. You get to see the evolution not only of his, let's say, initial understanding and his initial interpretation of the regional architecture and how he interpreted it to then this kind of evolving idea and notion of what architecture is and what place is. So it's just kind of an amazing. It. It honestly is really amazing to see all of that, like, pulled together so that you can sort of see almost like you're looking at an anthology book of somebody and you see, like, their. Their career, their span of their career. You can see it in the landscape. And it's just. It's. It's just so cool.

[Angelo]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And I. I think so. Like, then we were driving around landscape and. And then as we were driving out, I saw kind of a dirt road that there was another house on. And I'm like. And then there was like a. A sign, a for sale sign. And so I'm like, yeah, let's just go and look and see what our future property could be. And I. I drive up there and then happened to be like a couple of the. The. The Shavic, like, work trucks or something, like, kind of like, came up. And so as we were kind of like, driving around, I kind of, like, waved at them, they waved at me, but they were there to see it, make sure I wasn't up to no good, which no one can ever ensure that, like, I'm always up to no good. So nice try. Really?

[Angelo]

Yeah, sure. You looked very threatening.

[Cormac]

I did.

[Angelo]

I had always.

[Cormac]

I had an Auburn baseball cap on. You know how that is? I'm from the sale.

[Angelo]

Yeah. Red flag right there.

[Cormac]

No, no, no red flags. But so that portion of the trip. And there is a lot more. But that portion of the trip where, you know, I. I got to see. So it was interesting. Is like, that portion of the trip we got to fulfill two bucket. Two bucket lists. My wife's finally getting a chance to see, experience, tour, and walk around the grounds and touch the same things that Lucy Maud Montgomery had touched and see the inspirations of what she. Of what she saw when she was writing those books. And so my wife got a chance to see all of that, and I got to see, like, one of my favorite living architects at their office. Got to drive around some of their work and kind of just plan the next trip there so I can spend maybe a little bit more time and maybe bring you along and maybe we can do a podcast recording with him on, like, sipping tea and coffee overlooking the. The Atlantic Ocean. Because that sounds great.

[Angelo]

It does sound great. Man, what the heck? This is, like chapter five and Coral Adventures. This is insane.

[Cormac]

It was so not planned, but happened beautifully. Just kind of like, you know, when we were talking with Angelo about our trip and kind of pulling all of that together where had, like, all of this big plans of, like, everything that we wanted to see, and we only got to see, like, a small portion of it, but half of it was made up and half of it was planned. It was sort of the same thing. Like, most of this one was made up, but still somewhat planned, at least just to get her up there without her really kind of knowing it. Knowing it, but not really knowing it. She didn't really know where we were really going. And that was the. That was the joy of that one is just, like, not going to tell you that. But I will say that if anybody plays the Alphabet game when they're driving, which is basically finding words that start with A, B, C, you know, all the way through Canada is brilliant for that. Yes. There are large stretches of it. Why? Because the signs are in both English and in French, so damn sure can find that cue that you rarely can ever find on American road signs or cars. But Quebec. Thank you. Because there it is. Yeah.

[Angelo]

That'S cool. Oh, I'm super jealous. That's awesome that you got to do that. So, yeah, call them up. Get him on the. Get them on the podcast. Let's do this. I think it'd be fun.

[Cormac]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we'll have to do it.

[Angelo]

All right. Well, is there anything else? Are we gonna. We're gonna take some more Summer vacation.

[Cormac]

Well, I can't even tell you. I mean, you know, I mean, I am. Yeah. Who knows?

[Angelo]

I've been working my booty off here. I'm ready for one. Oh, my God.

[Cormac]

Well, you have. You do actually have a trip coming up.

[Angelo]

I have, I have made reservations. I am. I don't. There's many miles involved in ours, but yeah, we'll be. We'll be road trip into South Dakota in a couple weeks.

[Cormac]

Well, you're so how many, how many miles is that? Because I'll say I put. I put just around a little over 5,000 miles on my car from Detroit to D.C. of course you did. To Nova Scotia.

[Angelo]

Kind of what you do.

[Cormac]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Angelo]

If I look up like Custer, South Dakota, it is a 20 hours of driving.

[Cormac]

It is.

[Angelo]

Let me click on it and see. It's 1335 miles to get there.

[Cormac]

Okay.

[Angelo]

So that's the minimum. It's at least 2600. It'll be quite a bit more than.

[Cormac]

That once we're done.

[Angelo]

Oh, I'm not even going that way. I'm going up. I'm going through Boise.

[Cormac]

Boise.

[Angelo]

I'm going. I'm going the northern route. I'm going Boise, Idaho Falls. Yeah. And I'm not going to go down through Salt Lake City, which is the faster route.

[Cormac]

But have you ever been to Idaho?

[Angelo]

It's not that much faster. And. And we're going to go through the Teton and stuff like that, so through like Jackson, Wyoming and that kind of area. So. Yeah, there's gonna. There's a lot going on on this trip and I figured I had to start. Planning is literally like less than two weeks away.

[Cormac]

Yeah. So.

[Angelo]

Well, it's gonna be a big.

[Cormac]

I am going to say in future episode, you know, we'll definitely talk about that. Oh, you know, if we want to talk a little bit about like my impression of Quebec City and public spaces and where America went wrong with creating these beautiful, like little.

[Angelo]

Oh, the grass is greener over there.

[Cormac]

Quebec City. Wow. Like old Quebec City, man. You know, urban planning. It is the closest thing to France outside of France. It really is. And although every. So you walk into every place, you know, it's just like bonjour. And you're like, hello.

[Angelo]

I heard it's a different version of French. There is that. Well, do you know anything about that?

[Cormac]

If, if you believe everything that I have heard and everything else, that because it was isolated, it is actually a purer form of French than what is spoken in France.

[Angelo]

So French, France, French has evolved Is that what you're saying?

[Cormac]

And.

[Angelo]

And this one did not.

[Cormac]

It has been isolated. And so it is like, when it was introduced, it is. You sit and you talk to everybody, and they have a very, you know, actually on Prince Edward island at the bed and breakfast that we stayed at, we, you know, had had breakfast with a couple from Montreal. And the lady was born in Montreal and the husband was actually from Chicago. She's got a. She had a very, very heavy, thick French accent. And she. We were talking about, oh, we're going to go. We're on our drive home. We're going to be hitting places like, you know, Quebec City and Montreal. And since you live in Montreal, where do you. Where. Where do you suggest we go? She's like, skip Montreal. Spend more time in Quebec City. I'm like, o. Okay, an honest review. Total honest review, too. In.

[Angelo]

In opinionated. Yeah, it's good.

[Cormac]

So we, so we did. We. We spent some time, couple day and a half actually, in Quebec City. And obviously there's much more time that needs to be spent there. But I need to take my daughter, who is learning high school French to at least get us through there, because you do. I mean, everybody speaks English, but everybody else, you know, speak French. And it's the. The. You can see on my Instagram page the. A few pictures that I took, both of my night shots and also the daytime shots of old Quebec City and walking through there with, you know, just this whole activation of the street and the little alleyways. The alleyways are used as, like, extensions of the shops and where local artists are setting up kind of like their easels with all of their, like, work. And we bought some colored pencil drawings of Quebec City from this one artist. And it was just, you know, just. It's. It's something that for some reason we're. We aren't really too far off of having kind of that, like, activated street life in some of, like, these old city, these old downtowns that we were driving through, kind of avoiding the highways and driving through some of these little old, like, main streets. But there's just something very, very American about our main streets versus they're very European versions of it where, like, in, like, old Montreal and old Quebec City, and even in Lunenburg, where we were at there, the street activity is so very European. You know, they use every space. All of the spaces are a place where you can have a cafe or.

[Angelo]

You can cram something in there, right?

[Cormac]

And it was just, you know, just totally. Why do we do this?

[Angelo]

It's like an old, old city.

[Cormac]

Yeah. It was so delightful. So, so delight. Nice man.

[Angelo]

Well, how do you say goodbye in French? Cormac.

[Cormac]

Au revoir.

[Angelo]

Au revoir.

[Cormac]

Au revoir. It.