Archispeak Ep. 349: "Experiencing Infratecture" with Slade Shaffer

Hosts: Evan Troxel, Cormac Phalen
Guest: Slade Shaffer, Ayers Saint Gross
Date: October 28, 2024

Overview

In this episode, Evan and Cormac welcome architect Slade Shaffer to explore his recent architecture-focused travels through Denmark, the Netherlands, and Germany, funded by Arizona Architecture Foundation’s Robert Samish Prize. The discussion unpacks the value of travel for architectural practice, “infratecture” (the marriage of infrastructure and architecture), and what American architects can learn from innovative public spaces abroad. Slade’s first-person observations, peppered with humor and thoughtful critique, weave into a larger conversation about evolving urbanism, teaching, and the profession’s future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Value of Travel in Architectural Practice

• Setting the Stage (00:39–01:45): Travel as essential for enrichment, inspiration, and gaining global perspective.
• Slade’s Motivation & Background (01:58–06:00):
  • Completed an independent graduate project on pedestrian and cycling infrastructure in Phoenix.
  • Focused on connecting fragmented canal paths, proposing architectural interventions for urban connectivity.
  • Taught at ASU, encouraging students to develop “infratecture”—buildings that merge architecture and infrastructure.
• How Travel Grant came about (07:00–12:00):
  • Won the Robert Samish Prize, an Arizona travel grant, to visit case studies of "infratecture" in Denmark and the Netherlands.
  • Chose these regions due to their density of multifunctional urban projects by firms like BIG and MVRDV.

“I had looked at all these case studies... Of this list of 25 projects, I couldn’t help but notice that just over half of them were either in Denmark or the Netherlands or by a Dutch or Danish firm.” — Slade (11:00)

2. Urban Evolution: Lessons from Europe

• Reversing the “Era of Automobilization” (13:05–14:00):
  • European cities like Utrecht transforming highways back to canals, parking lots to plazas.
  • Both Denmark and the Netherlands shifted away from car-centric planning following grassroots activism in the '60s and '70s.

“They basically called in Dutch Stop the Kinder Moord—Stop the Murdering of Children... It just took this cultural cataclysm for them to turn their cities back to people on bikes.” — Slade (23:19)

• Cultural Will & Client Buy-In (19:34–22:45):
  • European clients more open to adventurous, multifunctional spaces.
  • In America, “sprawl mentality” and conservative attitudes prevent similar integration of programs.

3. Case Studies: Infratecture Projects Visited

Copenhagen

• Copenhill (48:03–51:30 | Most anticipated):
  • Fusion of waste-to-energy plant and year-round public ski slope.
  • Includes hiking paths and a public observation deck.
• Eight House by BIG (26:11–27:00):
  • “Shaped like an 8… there’s this public promenade that snakes up the entire form… It looks like walking on almost a tight European street except you're... on a street next to someone's little patio and on the other side there's a six-story drop.” — Slade (27:00)
• Base Camp Lyngby (29:45–32:00):
  • Student and senior housing with a walkable, 800-meter snaking path across the roof, blurring landscape and building.

Urban Parks & Plazas

• Elevated Park Network (42:00–47:00):
  • New kilometer-long rooftop park in development, connected through ramps, bridges, play spaces, and linking to the new IKEA's rooftop garden.
  • Comparison with New York’s High Line, but “even bigger… creating a larger, more varied public space” (46:26).

“This is going to create this incredible new basically kilometer-long elevated parkway that's like similar to the High Line, except even bigger.” — Slade (46:26)

• Camp Adventure Tower (38:52–41:48):
  • Hourglass-shaped observation tower in the Danish forest; “a completely new way to experience the forest” with a journey from the woods to panoramic views.
  • Classified as “vanity” infrastructure but justified by the experience.

The Netherlands

• Markthal, Rotterdam (54:06–54:45):
  • Enclosed market with apartments around a massive, muraled arch; a new building, not repurposed infrastructure.
• Valley, Amsterdam (54:45–57:39):
  • Tower complex by MVRDV featuring lush “canyon” terraces accessible to the public—“pseudo-natural space” within the city—yet with critical reflection on actual public engagement.

4. American Context: Parallels and Gaps

• Examples & Obstacles in the US (16:28–19:34):
  • New York’s High Line, Little Island, and The Vessel serve as known US examples.
  • Density and real estate scarcity in Europe force innovation; American sprawl and car-dependency hinder “infratecture” adoption.

“We’re sort of stuck in this sprawl mentality... don’t get your peanut butter in my chocolate.” — Cormac (19:35)

• Higher Ed as Urban Incubators (21:30–36:34):
  • College and university campuses in the US are likened to “urbanist havens”—potential for experimentation and merging of disciplines.

5. Experiencing Architecture: More than the Renderings

• Photo-documentation & Physicality (51:39–52:45):
  • Importance of panoramic and 360° documentation for future VR experiences.
• Sometimes, Reality Differs (60:25–62:54):
  • Slade notes the contrast between polished project images and the actual buildings, sometimes showing wear or being less pristine, but offering a learning opportunity.

“It was like, oh, it’s not as shiny, as clean as all the images, but at the same time you can actually feel the true impact…” — Slade (60:38)

6. Personal and Professional Takeaways

• Teaching & Studio Impact (63:26–65:49):
  • Plan to refine architectural studio teaching with richer, first-hand case studies and insights gained from travel.
• Advocacy at Home (65:49–66:24):
  • Encouraged by seeing European improvements, Slade is motivated to advocate for pedestrian and bike-friendly changes in Phoenix.
• Travel as Professional “Fuel” (66:24–69:16):
  • Visiting, not just viewing, makes theory tangible, inspires critical thinking, and gives tools for sneaking innovation into US practice.

“Our profession is about the experience of spaces as much as we put things on paper or screens—it's all about the experience.” — Slade (69:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the origin of ‘infratecture’:
  “We started to reconverge, landscape architecture and civil engineering and architecture professions…” — Slade (35:54)

• On branding & client expectations:
  “Nobody goes to Frank Gehry expecting to get something else. How does he get to do projects like this? By doing projects like this.” — Evan (22:45)

• On campus influence:
  “Students make their decision in the first 30 seconds of being on a campus… What is that? That’s the initial thing, like, what do I see right when I land there?” — Evan (37:40)

• On travel’s influence:
  “It’s not a vacation… this was a trip. You had an itinerary. You were on the bike… And that takes a lot of effort.” — Evan (69:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Slade’s Bike/Canal Project & Thesis (01:58–06:00)
• Genesis of Travel Grant & ‘Infratecture’ (07:00–12:00)
• European Urbanism & Reversal of Car Culture (13:05–14:00; 23:19)
• Comparing US Infratecture Projects (16:28–19:34)
• College Campuses as Proving Grounds (21:30–36:34)
• Base Camp Lyngby & 8 House Impressions (26:11–32:00)
• Camp Adventure Tower (38:52–41:48)
• Copenhagen’s Rooftop Park & IKEA Garden (42:00–47:00)
• Copenhill Ski Slope & Public Space (48:03–51:30)
• Documentation & VR (51:39–52:45)
• Dutch Markthal & Valley Experiential Insights (54:06–57:39)
• Lessons Learned & Teaching Reflection (63:26–65:49)
• Optimism & Advocacy Fostered by Travel (65:49–69:16)

Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is lively, passionate, insightful, and often humorous, balancing deep theory, practical wisdom, and travelogue anecdotes. The hosts’ enthusiasm for architectural innovation and real-world experience shines, reflecting the podcast’s reputation for “real talk”—equal parts inspiration, mentorship, and critique.

Further Resources

Slade has offered to share his full itinerary of projects, hotels, and links (Google Doc)—to be included in the episode notes for listener exploration.

Conclusion

This episode of Archispeak is a rich survey of how travel informs practice, the skills architects bring home from abroad, and the profound importance of urban, public, and multifunctional spaces. It both challenges and encourages American architects to think bigger—one “infratecture” at a time.