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- [00:10]
Evan
Anthony Laney, welcome to the arcuspeak podcast.
- [00:12]
Anthony Laney
Good to be with you, gentlemen.
- [00:14]
Evan
I was just mentioning, I think it's been pre Covid that we have seen each other in person. And that was at usc, which I believe is also your alma mater, is it not?
- [00:24]
Anthony Laney
That's right. I graduated from usc, and. And that's where I met my wife. And it's been really good to me. And yeah, it's now it's kind of part of our network and to be honest, one of the schools we love hiring from. But, yes, that's the last time that we connected. Evan. And so really glad to be back with you guys.
- [00:40]
Evan
Yeah. And you just are now, I guess, in the midst of releasing. I think I read in your. In on your Instagram, it was like, it basically alluded to, like, this is our first monograph, so I don't know what's in the works. You might have grand plans. It's probably like, well, let's see what happens with this one. I don't know. But congratulations on your new book. And it. And the title is. I want you to say the title so that we make sure we get it exactly right.
- [01:10]
Anthony Laney
The title is Poetics of Essays and Spaces by Lany La. So it features nine homes. For us, it's the labor of love. Yes, I'll admit we have ambitions to do more. As you know, architecture is a patient craft. And so actually, the homes that will be in the next book are. More than half of them are already done. So. But this. This represents, I think, our first body of work we've been in. We've been a practice for about 10 years. And so, yeah, we're. We're excited for sharing it with the world.
- [01:43]
Evan
And maybe you can just share a little bit more about the book, because I noticed it's kind of broken up into four parts. Obviously, there's a lot of images, there's plans and some drawings, but it's also essays. And so I'm curious about that. And I'm also curious about the nine projects. Is there some magic number in that which, like, those are the right projects for this book, or is this based on some Instagram grid or something like that?
- [02:08]
Anthony Laney
No, we just felt those were the right projects. When we were younger, as a practice, we were doing projects of a wider diversity. And I think part of this project for us or the book was to pick nine homes that had a certain voice or message. And so we organized that into, yes, the chapters. The Place of Home, the Sense of Home, the Rhetoric of Home, the Rhythm of home and the author of Home. And so we, as a studio, have this, I think, wonderful tradition of these weekly team talks. And so we're used to arguing and debating about kind of the meaning of architecture and what it means to make a home. And it was a super fun process to kind of workshop these ideas into these five chapters. And the essays aren't long, they're only about three pages each, but they just distill some of the ideas that we find compelling, and hopefully others might as well.
- [03:04]
Cormac
So when you were going through this, starting this adventure, I mean, how. I don't know if daunting is the right word or maybe enjoyable or both, to just kind of like, look back at the last 10 years of your practice and in. In just looking at what you've accomplished, what you've done, but then also just looking at it as even, like a. A window to the future as well.
- [03:31]
Anthony Laney
That's right. I think I have the bad habit of always looking forward. And so this exercise really was a blessing in that it helped us pause and reflect. And I think one of the most fulfilling parts, besides just celebrating the work of our team and our great clients, is the way that it helped us clarify some of the ideas that I think are still still relevant to what we're trying to do today, what we're trying to do next. So for that reason, the project was very meaningful to us.
- [04:00]
Evan
Can you talk about that workshopping that you were just mentioning? I mean, I know from following your Instagram from early on, I mean, Instagram is probably, I don't know, you've been on it for at least as long as your practice has been around. I know you were very social media forward when it came to not only, like, the projects, but also the behind the scenes of the projects. And so I was aware of kind of projecting the big stuff on the big wall in the studio, and you would have a big word up, and then you did a lot of cool stuff in keynote. I remember just talking to you about this stuff and. And I always thought it looked really clean and. And you were like, well, it looks clean because, like, one of our rules is to. To be fast with this kind of stuff. I thought, oh, that's super insightful. Right. It's just like a fast, clean. Right. And you don't. You don't spend a lot of time crafting the stuff that has to go into the process of getting the work done, but also kind of like bringing these ideas to the surface. So can you talk about that workshopping that you do with your team out in the open, kind of. It's very studio culture to me. It's very cool.
- [05:05]
Anthony Laney
Thank you. Yes. So we do have this weekly team talk, and I used to present them always, and now we all teammates are involved. And so it's moved from Monday mornings to Friday at the end of the day. But effectively we're taking a topic that inspires us and we're trying to put into words and images like why we feel this is relevant, why it's kind of worthy of our passion. And so we just have literally hundreds of hours of practice talking about the ideas that are either architectural or adjacent to architecture. And the reason we started doing it was it was just a safe place to share what inspired us. But also it became kind of like a training wheels for our younger designers to just get up on stage and to have some executive presence. That was amazing. In the past year, it has also evolved into a little bit more of a book club where we're digesting content. And we went through an entire round of reading a couple dozen L Croquis, a publication that I just really admire. And we would just all read it and come together and have what probably looked like a debate or an argument. But for us, it's just passionate conversation around what do we find relevant? How is it applicable to our work? Where are there nuggets that can inform the sort of challenges that we are dealing with? So that was probably the best part, is creating that atmosphere where a team can passionately engage. And out of that started to float some ideas that we started to match make with projects. And yeah, a little bit of it is like looking in the rearview mirror and saying, here's what we attempted to do and here's what I think we actually did. And just trying to be open with that. And part of it is just solidifying our own convictions around how to make projects as meaningful as possible and putting those into words.
- [06:53]
Cormac
You kind of mentioned and sort of excited me when you said that these talks now have become, I don't know if it's mentorship or just like the training ground for, you know, getting younger staff in front of their ideas and how to present them and just have that critical conversation that a lot of firms don't really invest into. That kind of like just forward thinking with their junior staff when it comes to how do we get them out front, how do they learn what we know?
- [07:25]
Anthony Laney
Yeah, we are a young team and so most of us would consider ourselves junior staff. But yes, I think that it's not uncommon in My opinion, both judging from my time in school, around school and in the practice, to have a very, very talented designer who can create something that is multidimensional, but it's a very different skill set to tell that story with a beginning, middle and an end, and to judge the connection that you're making with a small audience so that, that you know that there's like a design to that in itself, that's a type of project. And so it's just so fun to put in those reps because at least in my little world, the quality of my service is judged based upon these 90 minute meetings with clients. That is, the success of the architecture hinges on their ability to perceive value. And so it's a significant part of the game that we play.
- [08:25]
Evan
Yeah. Can you kind of elaborate on. Okay, so what I'm assuming happens is you're, like you said, everybody's kind of reading these things and they're latching on to bits that connect with them.
- [08:38]
Anthony Laney
That's right.
- [08:39]
Evan
And then there's kind of this forum of debate and conversation about these ideas. Can you talk about kind of how that feeds back into the practice? Like, what values is that feeding in addition to building communication skills, which then leads to client satisfaction, I'm sure on many levels, but also just idea wise and how to, you know, communication style, communication skills. What else is this kind of bringing back into the practice? Because I could have a bunch of really interesting ideas and I don't ever have to share them with anybody. I'm sure something comes out of you guys constantly sharing these nuggets with each other and like maybe sentences start to complete for other people or ideas start to go together and create something new out of. Out of what seem to be disparate kind of things.
- [09:34]
Anthony Laney
That's right. Part of it is practice, and I feel like we've covered that and that's awesome. But you're right, the best part, I think, is the merging between practice and actual ideas that have utility. I think the thing that I think makes the biggest difference is resetting everyone's expectation around the intensity of feedback. In my experience, most American architecture schools graduate students who closely identify with their project. And so when they receive a critique that they identify with, or when receiving a critique for a piece of content that they identify with, it's like, it's hard to untangle that. And there's always this sense of, I feel there's tension there. And what I love is after spending hours and hours and hours as a team critiquing a thing, I Start to see individuals disconnect that identification of themselves with an idea. And now it's. And I hear you guys talk about this a lot. It's like, let the best idea win. And you can argue. We force people to argue opposite sides of their opinion just to. Just to practice what is an articulate argument. Feel like let's complement a strong argument, even if you disagree with it. And let me mention two other things. We have a design framework that we call our design ethos. And so whenever we see an idea that we think is relevant to most projects, we try to catalog it into one, like a category of our design ethos. But we're also bringing all the current projects that are on our mind to bear. And so I feel like that's where it becomes most effective is we see something produced by an architect in Spain and we just try to pin that idea to a particular project and we'll try it on.
- [11:17]
Cormac
It's funny that I do that with some of your work in my little Instagram pinning.
- [11:22]
Anthony Laney
So it's my marking. I mean, it's a fun tool for that, right?
- [11:30]
Cormac
It totally is. I've, in fact, now I've got it filed. It's like architecture ideas, big picture ideas, details, architectural academia, things like that. And it's just like anything that just kind of like sparks this idea. Like, ooh, I want to share that with my students, or, ooh, I want to share that with my co workers.
- [11:48]
Evan
We're going to make a soundtrack of just clips of Cormac saying, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.
- [11:54]
Cormac
Thanks.
- [11:55]
Anthony Laney
Yeah, that's the inspiration spark happening.
- [11:59]
Evan
It was. Yeah, Real time, real time sound effects. I say, so talk about these four different. These, well, sorry, five different chapters. And really like, where did those come from? Why did you decide to land with these different aspects of what a home is?
- [12:14]
Anthony Laney
I am very much inspired by literature. There's a book called the Poetics of Music by Igor Stravinsky, and he unpacks the beauty of constraint and so many different themes that he is exploring through the lens of music that I think it's so easy to borrow into architecture. Also a big fan of Poetics of Space by Gaston Bacolard, who might be saying that wrong. And so for us, we knew the theme was home. And the word poetics, it actually means making. And, you know, I know a little bit about you guys and I know that you love the craft and the process. And so even though perhaps most readers will associate the word poetry with a short phrase that rhymes for us, it. It has that Greek origin, poiesis, which relates to the craft of making. And, you know, that was that. So that was the origin for us saying, okay, in this realm of the making of home, what are there different aspects? And so for us, it was place and rhetoric and authorship and meaning and sense. And it took a. Probably took about a month and a half to debate the framework for that. And once we had that framework, then we read as many books as we could related to those topics, started building a shared bibliography, and then we would just have these early morning meetings where we start to debate ideas. And it was just an exercise for us in how to speak about ideas that were both relevant, inspiring, and could, like, pull out things that were true of the projects that we had. Professional photographs of.
- [13:55]
Cormac
You speak of we, and sometimes it's the proverbial we. Or am I assuming that your firm, like everybody involved with your practice, had a hand in creation of the book?
- [14:07]
Anthony Laney
Very much. There probably is a bell curve distribution in that. I'm like, the wildest, most passionate one. But we have several. Just incredible individuals, many of whom were instrumental from the very beginning to the very end. So, yes, a. It was a plural effort, and that's just our vibe. And yeah, that's. It was a fun part of it.
- [14:30]
Cormac
And the reason I ask is because it really seems like it's. It's not a. A me place, it's a we place. And that, you know, you really do take to heart everybody's ideas, everybody's, you know, input from, you know, things that I see on Instagram to just, you know, I've got your website pulled up on one of my screens here, and it's just like, it's. It's all about, like, the collective, you know, and it isn't, you know, then. Yeah.
- [14:57]
Anthony Laney
So I realize that that might be in fashion to, like, emphasize, but it true. It is true. My favorite part about architecture school was certainly the team projects. And I. Something clicked when I realized that it was irritating to most people. But for me, there was something exciting about aligning human energy. And I'm not the greatest designer. I'm more of a thinker. And so I just have the good fortune of surrounding myself with incredible designers. And I truly think we are stronger together. We talk a lot, we think a lot. We read a lot about the dynamics of teamwork. And I think the more I can understand what my strengths and limitations are and someone else's strengths and limitations, that can be this exciting puzzle piece that's probably my favorite part of a project is Building the right team to try to outperform pound for pound, whoever, you know, fictitiously we would be competing with.
- [15:53]
Cormac
I am so glad you said that. And I am so making my students listen to this because this is their first real group project and so many of them, you know, really don't like the group project. And I, the first time, would probably agree.
- [16:09]
Anthony Laney
Yep.
- [16:10]
Evan
Yeah.
- [16:11]
Cormac
Yeah. And so the first time that, you know, I started teaching, it was such an adverse reaction to this, this whole teamwork and team dynamic and things like that. And I realized that we didn't tell the narrative of why teamwork is important. And so when we came back this year and we started talking about it, we started talking about the why. Even if you're a sole practitioner, you will never be going alone. You will always be working as a team. And architecture is enriched by, by the voice of many, not just this kind of, like, solo effort. So I'm glad you said all of that because I'm sure making this part of the syllabus now.
- [16:53]
Evan
Nice.
- [16:54]
Cormac
Or extra credit. That's. That will be extra credit.
- [16:56]
Evan
Anthony, can you talk about these. Let's start with the place of home and what you're getting into in the place. I know, like, even in the name of your firm, it's like Laney la. And that doesn't stand for landscape architecture. Right. It's Los Angeles. Right. I mean, you guys are very much about, about a region. A place like LA is huge. Right. But I know you're, you're in at the beach and that the opening picture of the book is probably kind of one of those. You know, it's like, that's what I think of when I think of California kind of a thing. Southern California, specifically.
- [17:30]
Anthony Laney
That's exactly right. I know a lot of architects probably have visions to touch the world in a way. And of course, we all love traveling, but I love that I can go to not exaggerating 12 job sites in under 30 minutes. We, we really.
- [17:50]
Evan
Wait a second. La, la traffic?
- [17:52]
Cormac
Come. Come on.
- [17:54]
Anthony Laney
No, well, so I'm, I'm at the beach in la, and if you imagine a map. So there's the beach city south of lax, the airport. We have a significant number of projects in that vicinity. And that's where our office is. And that's my personal community. That's the area that I just, I care so much about. And we've had the good fortune of having clients take us all over California, and hopefully that continues to grow. But you're right, we, we care so much about place and the essay begins saying that everything has a starting point for. For us as architects, it begins with place. I think there are two schools of thought. One has to do with, like the tabula rasa or the blank slate, the architecture of modernism, Le Corbusier. And you can really invent something new. And on the other side of the spectrum is kind of the opposite, the genius loci. Someone would argue that there is a true spirit of a place that can be understood and enhanced. And the more that a building understands that and embodies that, the more effective it is. So that would be like Christopher Alexander. And so in Los Angeles, a lot of our clients are not from here, but they come here for a fresh start. And so the essay simply explores the way that we relate more to genius loci. If we had to pick. But we think that tabula rasa is actually subservient to a. It's a type of genius loci. Like, that's kind of the quote, spirit of LA is this clean slate. And we explore what it means to create homes in this semi dense environment on the beach, and how a home is very much defined by what you reveal and what you conceal. It's a place of privacy, and those thresholds are everything. And we want to be very intentional with where we embrace context and where we kind of edit the context, especially in these semi suburban environments. And so we simply share our perspective on Los Angeles and the different philosophies as it relates to architecture and place and try to just share our perspective on that.
- [20:02]
Cormac
Very cool.
- [20:03]
Evan
I'm curious how that starts to branch into these next because I haven't had a chance to read these essays yet. But then you get into, like you talked about earlier, these aspects of what a home is. And so take us into the next category with the sense of home and what that's about.
- [20:20]
Anthony Laney
Okay. I think that architecture has a type of visual dominance. That is the. That is the sense that is probably easiest to recognize. And when working with our clients, we try hard to not allow that to create just an image. But as I know you share these convictions. We want homes to have a sense of wholeness, which includes the kind of the sounds, the smells, the touches, but also the way that a space connects to memory and even, what's the word? Like the habits or the rituals of a home. And so for us, when we kick off a project, we know that there is not a chance that we're going to overlook visual inspiration images. Our clients will bring that no matter what. So we don't ask for Them what we emphasize has much more to do with what makes them feel a sense of restfulness. And what are the memories associated with hosting or vacationing or returning home? And we end this essay exploring two types of perspectives on this. We have one project where the home is the foreground, and. And we have one project where the home is decidedly the background. And that's one of my favorite questions to ask my clients. Like, I realize it's on a spectrum and the answer is both, but are we trying to create something foreground or are we trying to create something background? And that's, I think, a fun place to start in the conversation, I feel.
- [21:57]
Evan
Like, with the type. Okay, so the question is, who's this book for? And the reason I asked that, like, is it for architects? Is it for potential clients? Is it for the clients whose pictures of their homes are in the book? It's all of the above.
- [22:11]
Cormac
Right?
- [22:11]
Evan
But like, you're giving away. And by giving away, I mean sharing some really interesting ideas about what it's like to create a piece of architecture both from, like, the architect side for firms that, like, don't have an ethos, who are a service firm, who, like, to me, there's gold to pick out of this. To say, like, okay, well, what if we wanted to be something else? Or, I'm just starting a firm, what kind of firm do I want to be? I love that you're kind of coming at this from this. It's not even an angle, right? It's like all angles. To me, you're really sharing kind of what sets architecture apart and what architecture can be. And I like that word wholeness and how you're incorporating all the senses and layers, foreground, background, thresholds, private, public, that kind of thing. I think all of that is, on one level, it's kind of theoretical, right. It's really high level. And on another one, I think it's super practical.
- [23:19]
Cormac
Right.
- [23:20]
Evan
It's like you're not trying to just write essays full of archa speak, Right. You're actually trying to convey meaningfulness of why you do what you do. And I think that that is like, to me, that's the big takeaway and why I'm excited to actually dig into these essays and really feel that. Because I think it is a difficult thing to articulate. I mean, what is architecture is a super broad question. It could be answered a million different ways. And you're attempting or you've taken a stab at like, answering that. I think that's super cool, at least for homes.
- [24:01]
Anthony Laney
Absolutely. I Think if there is an architect who has an interest in designing homes or provides that service, I think this will give a tremendous amount of just practical vocabulary. Because, yes, it can be an intimidating question, what's a home? But we've been thinking about that. It's a place of shelter and belonging. And here's our best thinking around what makes that meaningful and how to speak about that in a way that is short, concise, and we are trying to avoid being esoteric. Yes, we have the bibliography. Yes, we are referencing some, I think, of the best thinkers. But ideas like foreground and background are present whether you recognize it or not. And the minute you say it, I think you see it around you. And the better that, the more we can be articulate with this, I think the more effective we can be in setting objectives and actually executing against those. And what we're talking about right now, Evan, has to do with that. The third essay, the Rhetoric of Home. Rhetoric is the art of using language to inform or persuade. And what I find in working with my clients is there's this, like, there's this joy that comes from understanding the pleasure we get and the value we perceive in a thing corresponds to our ability to understand it. And so the more that we can take a complex thing and break it down into the ingredients, it like, engenders clients to the art that we're trying to create for them. And we need them to stay inspired along the way. And so that's why I don't think it's just a measure, it's just an exercise in marketing. I think it is part of keeping ambitious projects alive long enough to get to the finish line.
- [25:38]
Evan
Yeah, right. Not an easy task sometimes. So my next question has to do with beauty, because you, you write about beauty in here, and I know that these projects that you've put into this monograph are more than just skin deep beauty.
- [25:55]
Cormac
Right.
- [25:56]
Evan
And I think beauty has a much more rich definition than what we see on the surface. And so I'm just curious, when it comes to this and what you wrote about beauty, what does that mean to you? Why is it important? Why is it important to strive for that? And like, what are the levels that you're just kind of involving in that definition?
- [26:20]
Anthony Laney
Such a good question. So in my opinion, and I realize that people are free to disagree with this, but I think that beauty has been out of fashion, especially in elite circles, for quite some time now because it is associated with a type of shallowness. But when, I think when beauty aligns with truth, it can have this Impact of, like, making you forget about yourself. See, so it's that sense of awe when you see something that is, you know, truly inspiring or truly beautiful. And so I think that is worth pursuing. And I will say that we don't aim directly at beauty, because then I do think you might accidentally land on vanity. So we do aim at truth and goodness. Truth, goodness, and beauty. But we also don't apologize for wanting to make it truly beautiful. It's not only beautiful, but I do think that at least in the homes that we do, we are trying to give people goosebumps. We want them to. To have a valence is the whole emotional experience. We want the valence to be truly positive and attractive.
- [27:32]
Evan
I appreciate that you took the time to kind of think through that, and it's interesting that you talk about that as a strategy. I think it's just kind of something architects do just intuitively also. But I agree to actually take that and kind of create this alignment of those three different parts that you're talking about.
- [27:52]
Cormac
Right.
- [27:52]
Evan
Beauty and truth and goodness. And I'm just curious, do you have any examples of maybe how those have manifested in these projects? I mean, the beauty, I think, as a kid. Yeah, so like truth and goodness. I'm really curious, like, how those show up in these projects.
- [28:06]
Anthony Laney
So one of the examples in the book is a home called the Scalloped Concrete House. We call it the SC Residence for short.
- [28:13]
Evan
I wanted to talk about that one. Cormac, have you seen this? They've kind of redefined what I would have considered, maybe board form concrete. I mean, obviously it's not.
- [28:20]
Anthony Laney
No, no, no.
- [28:21]
Evan
You're not going to take my board form concrete away, Anthony. But I love the. I remember when you guys, like were pulling the forms off of. Off of those when you were sharing that information back in the day. And I'm just like, I can't wait to see the final product here. So I'm just bringing that up because the scalloped concrete, it's incredible. So continue. Sorry.
- [28:43]
Anthony Laney
I appreciate that. We're very proud of it. I feel like that project is a project within a project. Just doing the concrete took a Herculean effort, and I'm glad that we played a role and a big team to pull it off. So if I. I'll do my best to connect beauty, truth and goodness to this. So in my opinion, the reason, Evan, that you're excited about it has to do with you intellectually know what it takes to do something that defies expectation related to the tectonics. Of concrete. I'm guessing that's what gets you excited. I'm guessing that's different then. Very different than what our client got excited about. Our client said, hey, I'm inspired by tropical architecture. Can we use bamboo to make concrete? I feel like it would be like a wave, right? It's got this soft texture. So it's just very different starting point. And I feel like the best projects, they are intellectually stimulating, but then they are also physically stimulating in the sense that you can speak about it and you can also experience it. And if I'm leaving out goodness, goodness, I think maps to function. So the concrete is the structure of the house. Doing high end residential design, it's very hard to not design an ugly skeleton and then cloak it in high end materials. There's a big trend to go that direction and I've done my fair share of that. And so for the structure itself to be the finished surface, to be the art, and then to enable someone who is not in love with architecture to stand next to it and just immediately want to touch it, want to like, have their, their hands raked across the surface and to pause, I think is something that we're proud of. But of course, the architects geek out because they know I had to. We had to take the formwork, draw it from the inside, map out every outlet, every attachment of the stair. We had to course every finished floor height so it perfectly matched. It's just, it's just a labor of love. And I feel like there's something in just the care that goes into that that I think people can feel.
- [31:01]
Cormac
One of the things, and it's one of the ones that I have bookmarked in my, in my Instagram is the SE house and also the HT residence. It seems like there's a simplicity and a truth to the materials that then that's where the beauty comes out of. But knowing the complexity, the, the, the rigor that it takes to actually accomplish that. You're right, is, is absolutely something that you're, you're drawn to. Because emotionally I look at that, I'm like, my God, look at that. Look how beautiful that is. And it's. And I know like the way that like just this simple ribbing of the, of it creates these like shadow lines throughout the day, and it kind of creates this emotion as it passes time and stuff like that. Those are like the visceral kind of emotional things that I always get attached to in architecture. But then I stand back and I'm like, how hard was that? You know, and then you appreciate it at a completely different level.
- [32:02]
Evan
Well, architects do. And I'm curious, Anthony, do owners appreciate, like talk about that? Because you delivered on like a description of bamboo concrete structure softness, which I think you accomplished. And so how do non architects respond to that kind of a thing from. I mean, obviously we have. Cormac and I experienced this when we went to visit Louis Kahn buildings. It's like, I gotta touch that I must touch right. Immediately. And I'm imagining with something like this, it's much more approachable and understandable from a non architect's point of view to be like. You kind of get a similar reaction is what I'm assuming.
- [32:44]
Anthony Laney
Yes. And I think that there's, I'm guessing that if there's any power to it, it's in the, the define of expectations. Right. We don't expect concrete to be quote unquote soft. And it's got this pigment that makes it lean a little bit more pink or a little bit more orange rather than gray. And so it's just fun for me to catch these little glimpses where individuals who are not architects but are adjacent to our industry can appreciate the beauty of this material in a new way. And all we did was coordinate a texture. Right. This is not a Saarinen or a con building, but for us it was tremendously challenging. But it's also at such a human scale. It's a one story wall that proceeds down into the basement. The stair is next to it. You walk next to it, you touch it, you feel it. And the scallop is. It happens twice from the top of your finger to the palm of your hand. So it's very human in its scale. And I think that's the thing that helps it be more digestible to a wider audience.
- [33:49]
Cormac
You're absolutely right. I mean, I'm, I'm looking at the stair shot right now and, and that stair shot, not only it's just there's, there's so, so many, several layers to it, but the biggest layer is really just the fact that the concrete itself doesn't feel like concrete. It's, it's, it's broken down to that human scale exactly as you said. And it doesn't feel overbearing or daunting or anything like that. And even when we, when Evan and I were in New Haven, Connecticut, and we went to the British Arts Museum, and the thing about that, that kind of made the concrete feel different than what you would normally expect concrete to be was how absolutely just baby bottom smooth. It was butter it was. It was funny because we. Evan was hugging a Rudolph across the street.
- [34:38]
Evan
It was prickly. Yeah.
- [34:40]
Cormac
And then we. Then we go into the British arts, and everything was like just the polar opposite. And it was just like the different emotions or the different connections that you had to each one of those buildings. And you can see that here, that it's just this. It's. It's this digestible scale.
- [34:55]
Anthony Laney
Thank you.
- [34:55]
Cormac
I'm gushing.
- [34:57]
Anthony Laney
I'm very grateful to be with two guys who can geek out about board form concrete. It doesn't happen to me every day.
- [35:03]
Cormac
Yeah.
- [35:03]
Evan
This is the podcast for that.
- [35:04]
Cormac
Yeah.
- [35:05]
Evan
Anthony, there's two subjects I still want to talk about with you. One of them has to do with the build team. I think it's, like, incredible because this doesn't happen without incredible builders. I think, because you have to have that attention to detail, they have to care about solving the design problems that show up during the construction process along your side and not fighting against you. And so I'm just curious, like, your expectations around going into that. How did you find these people? What has that been like for you to work with them? I mean, the pictures are kind of the proof, I think, of what it's like to work with them. And so I'm just curious to hear more about that.
- [35:45]
Anthony Laney
This is one of the things that I was so appreciative from. The Poetics of Music by Igor Shavinsky. He says that music contains elements that defy definition. And I think that drawings are quite powerless to define architecture in its totality. And so I think if there's one thing that I like, I think my highest and best use is team building. And it is no accident that we work with some of the best builders and I think the very best builders. One is my neighbor right there, and the other is my neighbor right behind this wall. And so we put ourselves in proximity of the individuals who are absolutely necessary to elevate our work. We do our best at our drawings, but that is such a tiny fraction of what it takes to do something like the scallop concrete house. And so from just the care of the general contractor, all the way down to the skill of the subcontractor, all the way down to the personal relationship that we have with the laborers. It is absolutely essential. And I just think that that team building relationship dynamic is a little bit underplayed. The process could not be. It is such a gross oversimplification to say that the architect draws and the builder builds. At least in my world, the overlap and the Synergy is so wonderfully intense. And again, to reference the poetics of music, it's like, yeah, the conductor is going to write it, but it takes an entire army to bring it to life and to play.
- [37:24]
Cormac
Right, right. Well, I mean, that goes back to what you were talking about as your design ethos. I think what I'm getting more and more of as we talk is that collaboration is equally amount of your design ethos as anything else is from how you put the book together and how you, on your Friday afternoon chats with your team. And just the way that you're explaining the, the dynamic with your contractors and everybody else and the client and everybody else. You don't have successful projects like these without 100% buy in, but 100% collaboration all the way through.
- [38:00]
Anthony Laney
That's right.
- [38:01]
Evan
Commitment, commitment. There's a lot of commitment here.
- [38:04]
Cormac
Oh, absolutely.
- [38:05]
Anthony Laney
Yeah. Yeah. And it's a team sport. And so the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And if we're only looking out for ourselves, you're not going to build those deep relationships. Our very rich projects are in many ways projects that started years ago on other projects, and it's that of the team that we're now finally ready to accomplish something that we probably weren't ready to do a few projects ago.
- [38:34]
Evan
Yeah. Can you talk about that relationship building? Because I. If Cormac students are going to be listening to this, I want to make sure.
- [38:40]
Cormac
Yeah, they are.
- [38:41]
Evan
We get something in here.
- [38:41]
Anthony Laney
The good ones are listening right now.
- [38:44]
Evan
You're talking about relationships and how relationships take investment.
- [38:49]
Cormac
Right.
- [38:49]
Evan
And the payoff. You're seeing the payoff years later. These projects take a long time to begin with, but to do multiple projects with the, with the teams and to learn together, to gel better over time, to be able to collaborate at higher levels. Can you talk about like just what kind of investment you're putting into those relationships to. I mean, to realize these kinds of projects?
- [39:15]
Anthony Laney
Yes, I, I think that no one is going to disagree that deep relationships are meaningful and effective on a team. Sure. But how did, like, why does that actually matter? Like in theory, two very professional strangers should be able to do work together. My answer to that is it has to do with speed, which will eventually relate to quality. And so when I'm working with someone who I truly, truly trust, I am going to be totally unguarded in my, in all that I share, all that I say is good and not good. My feedback is going to be totally unfiltered because I know they have my back. And if they do the same in a one hour conversation, the number of ideas and revolutions that we will go through is going to run circles around me in a different context where I have to be guarded and protective and careful.
- [40:10]
Evan
The word is safe, Right. It's like you built that relationship and a relationship is a safe place because you can disagree and it's still a safe place. Right?
- [40:19]
Anthony Laney
That's exactly right. Because it's not interpersonal conflict, it's idea conflict.
- [40:24]
Cormac
Yeah.
- [40:24]
Anthony Laney
And so even those two strangers could do great work and they sure could be high performers. I feel like we are in an iterative practice, an iterative art where mockups matter. And, and we're, we're searching for something that is the truly the best thing. So therefore, if we can reduce the latency between repetitions, we're just going to outperform. And so that's why we just do so much better when we're working with either teammates, employees, or with subcontractors, or with collaborators, where we have that history together because we can just communicate so much more fluidly.
- [41:01]
Evan
The machine just gets better. And I don't want to call it a machine, but on some level it's just like you're working together because you're complementary parts that are all pulling in the same direction.
- [41:13]
Anthony Laney
Yep, that's right.
- [41:13]
Evan
So I guess my final category of just something I wanted to talk about was. I mean, I look through this book and I kind of go back to the beginning of Place and I think about Laney la, and I look at all these projects and I'm like, yep, California, yep. Like super California. But there's still a range in these projects of how they come across. Right. Interiors and exteriors. And so I'm just curious for you, like, what is California architecture? Did you choose LA on purpose? Did you? Or were you just there and that's where you decided to start this practice? Or is this something that is like, so innate in you that you can't do it? I don't know that you even want to do it somewhere else. I'm just curious about, because I hear some architects talk about like, the affordances that California offers to architects with indoor outdoor connection and integration and all of those kinds of things. But. But I'm just curious to you. You're on the beach. A lot of these projects, like you said, they're right around you. How important is that to you to, to like give it a California vibe? Or is it just kind of. The architecture is, is actually just saying that, but you're not programming it that way.
- [42:20]
Anthony Laney
Wow. A lot of good questions. Because we are in it. Because we're in it. I, I probably. I'll admit, I don't often think, how do I make this feel Californian? So it might just be in my DNA, because.
- [42:32]
Evan
DNA. Yeah, I think, I think that, I think that totally counts. Yeah.
- [42:36]
Anthony Laney
But our. About half of our clients live here, and it's probably also in their DNA, but the other half are moving here. And these are, these are retreats, they're second homes. They're very special places of retreat, escape and rest. And so in that sense, I can detect in them a fresh eagerness to truly make it a California home. Right. It makes no sense for them to leave Boston and to come to California and not feel that sunscreen smell and the salt air and all that. And if there's a diversity in our work, it probably comes through in the essay we wrote on the authorship of home, where we just truly embrace a model where our clients are fully active participants in the dance of design. I realize that great architects can have a very different approach, but at least for us, we cherish and kind of admire the intelligence of our clients, and they are a significant component to the way that we create and iterate together. And so that just creates, I think, a diversity of results rather than of a more recognizable signature.
- [43:50]
Cormac
What was interesting is, as Kevin was asking that question, I think you are California. You're. You're from there, right? You born and raised there. So I mean, it is your essence, it is your. You are the, the genius.
- [44:04]
Anthony Laney
Can't get rid of this.
- [44:05]
Cormac
Exactly. The genius loci of, of the place is you as much as it is. I mean, you're informed by the place, the place is informed by you. And so really you're either sharing some commonality with people who know who are of la, and then there's the people who are seeking it out. You get this opportunity to share your understanding, your vision, what you feel LA and California is with somebody who's new in exploring and discovering, and you get that opportunity to discover together.
- [44:35]
Anthony Laney
Yeah. It's such a privilege. And I think you're totally right. You probably saw me nodding profusely a minute ago. But I do think that as architects, we create place that. That place that has an impact on us. And at some point it's hard to really separate, like, how does this all work? We know there is this two way street of influence that's happening, and I think that's one of the reasons why it's so special to create places.
- [45:01]
Cormac
Yeah.
- [45:02]
Evan
The word that came to mind when you were talking about your clients, Anthony, was respect. And you have this utmost respect for, obviously, they're positioned to hire you to do an incredible thing, but also what they bring to the table as far as ideas and collaboration. And I think it's interesting to think about a service industry respecting its clients the way that you just talked about them, because I think a lot of times, and this is a general statement, but it's like, we got to do this thing for these people. And I mean, how many times have we heard, like, educate the client, right? How many times have we heard. And it has an air of, like, derogatory statement, right? Arrogance. There you go. And what I heard from you was.
- [45:55]
Cormac
The opposite of that.
- [45:57]
Evan
And I think that that is just something that is also a really important point for the students who are listening and maybe the people who are practicing who need a reminder that, like, you are providing a service for somebody who is, like, they're doing so much for you, and you are doing so much for them in return. And that mutual respect, I hope, is something that we see more and more of and not less and less of because we live in, like, a polarized society. Right. Easy to put your hand up and, like, block people out. But what I'm hearing from you is like, wow, we really have this respect. You cherished that relationship that you build with them over that time. So I wanted to kind of just sit on that for a minute.
- [46:45]
Anthony Laney
I appreciate that. It's certainly true. I know a lot of incredible architects who do see their clients more as patrons. It's like, write the check, and the best patrons are the least involved, and that can create some beautiful art without question. We just subscribe to a different framework where, I mean, these are homes, right? We're not designing museums or libraries. So maybe the patron model works more over there, but it is for a family who's going to live there. And I literally cannot be successful in designing a thing if I don't have quite vulnerable, intimate collaboration with the end users. And the friction that that creates is very exciting to me. So we. We do not ever, like, subscribe to the model of, like, oh, the client's, like, making it worse or diluting the idea. It's like, no, they're. They're helping to reveal the true objective. And we just haven't found a design that fully gets there yet. But we're going to find one. And I. I just love using that Rick Rubin little truism. We're not done to. We're all happy. Right. So I have to love it. They have to love it. That means it's going to take a while, but we're going to get there.
- [47:58]
Cormac
I feel like one of the most. I don't know if offensive is the right way to explain it, but offensive things that I've heard in our profession is that the clients are the ones that kind of get in the way and slow down the process and all of this other stuff. Because I remember the first time I had ever done an elementary school, and they're like, oh, well, we don't really want to talk to the teachers. You'll just have a bunch of different ideas. And I'm like, well, that's what we need. That's what we want. I mean, because they're the ones who are living in this space all the time, so they're the ones who actually know how it's used, how it should be, how it functions for them, how they can actually craft and teach and do their job in the space that, you know, we help create together. And, And. And I was always taken aback by this kind of very arrogant kind of notion of the patron. No, no, don't worry. I'll, I'll. I'll tell you what you want.
- [48:49]
Anthony Laney
I'm with you.
- [48:50]
Cormac
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Evan
Well, Anthony, lightning round question. Where am I supposed to put all my crap in these. In these projects? The. The curse of, of photographing modern architecture, it really shows that there's. Maybe you've just. You've omitted those photos, but I don't know where I'm supposed to put my junk.
- [49:09]
Anthony Laney
That's funny. Yeah. So some of our clients, like the HG residents, they truly are minimalists, and I so admire the way they do it. And other clients, how is that possible?
- [49:19]
Evan
Yeah, I don't.
- [49:20]
Anthony Laney
Yeah, most of them, they have real lives and vacuum cleaners, the whole deal. And so I realize this might be a clunky term today, but, you know, thinking about the. The service and the serve spaces, where do things go, how to. How to make it? You know, when it's minimal, it usually means a lot of work went into making it feel that way. And there's this whole machine behind, behind the scenes in terms of infrastructure that make it work.
- [49:46]
Cormac
It's in a. I'm clicking through the HG resident right now, and you see where you can put it all, but it also, it's so hidden. It's all about the living. It's all about the space. It's all about that other stuff that I have nowhere to go from there. Just damn. Damn. I say, Anthony. Damn.
- [50:06]
Evan
Lightning round. We weren't going to spend a lot of time on that.
- [50:08]
Anthony Laney
All right, sorry. Lightning round. Fast answers.
- [50:11]
Cormac
All right. I actually, I have a question because I watch an interview with you and you were talking about your opportunity to live in the Gamble house. And so the very first book that I ever purchased for myself on architecture was a green and green book and prominently featured the. The Gamble Mansion. And I've always been fascinated, always been amazed at it. I took kind of like this self sojourn out to LA one time and had to seek it out because it was like the first thing that I'd ever seen in the pages of an architecture book. So how. Why tell me more.
- [50:54]
Anthony Laney
Awesome experience as a senior in architecture school, there was this, like, scholarship where they would pick one undergraduate and one graduate student to live there. So you live there, and your responsibilities have to do with setting up for events and participating in the tours. You just care for the grounds and you also provide some security because it's just good to have people there at nighttime. So it was such a joy, and I think about in 1908, to invent something that simultaneously was native but, like, so new and 100 years later is so timeless.
- [51:36]
Cormac
Yes.
- [51:37]
Anthony Laney
I mean, what an accomplishment. And I admired it before I lived there, but living there, I saw how much, like, humor and quirkiness there was to the structure. There's a downspout that goes around the beam, and then 10ft over, there's a downspout that goes through the beam. And they're just, like, playing with the craft. It's whimsy. Yes. There's a lightness to it that. Yeah, just unbelievable. Truly a work of art.
- [52:03]
Cormac
So how did that experience and just being exposed to that whimsy, but that level of craftsmanship, that level of detail, just the thoughtfulness of the design. I'm asking it as if I don't already know the answer, that that experience has kind of helped shaped your sensibilities, your design practice, your everything.
- [52:25]
Anthony Laney
Well, yeah, home is the one word answer. It's that suddenly I was convinced that there was no end to the creative pursuit of doing a home. And, I mean, I'll never find it, but the way they created something simultaneously inevitable and surprising just blows my mind. And that's, I think, what I'm trying to search for in our work, at least attempting to, is, you know, before they invented that type of craftsman approach, it wasn't there, but it needed to be there. And that just gives me the faith to be like okay. There's still more out there to create that can feel whole and inevitable, but it's just not here yet.
- [53:06]
Evan
We have to finish with that. That was perfect. That was perfect. The book is called Poetics of Essays and Spaces by Laney La Anthony. Where can people get this book?
- [53:18]
Anthony Laney
So it's on Amazon. You can go to our website, Laney la, and you'll see the link. We'll be announcing a few events coming up, but yeah, I'm. I'm excited for people to, to have it. And if you're in la, come visit us. Thanks, Evan and Cormic. Really excited to reconnect with you guys.
- [53:35]
Evan
It's a great reason to talk.
- [53:37]
Cormac
Fantastic to have you.