#392 - Your Favorite Building Looks Like a Parking Garage

Summary

Archispeak #392 Summary: Your Favorite Building Looks Like a Parking Garage

Air date: July 14, 2026
Hosts: Evan Troxel & Cormac Phalen

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Overview

In this reflective and humor-filled episode, Cormac recounts his epic 6,783-mile cross-country road trip with his daughter, which was anchored around the AIA National Convention in San Diego. The journey blends family tradition, architectural pilgrimage, and spontaneous adventure—punctuated by candid discussions about what defines meaningful architecture, the relationship between lived experience and building design, and the peculiar quirks of architects themselves. Evan and Cormac riff about memorable architectural destinations, the pros and cons of the AIA Conference, intergenerational perspectives on design, and the everyday hilarity and human side of the profession.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Microphone Mishaps and the Human Factor in Technology

• [00:34] Cormac humorously admits that his recent “mic issues” were caused by an unknown mute button—not a software problem.
  • "Apparently, the last time I had moved it… I muted myself. And so here we are…" (Cormac, 01:41)
• The exchange highlights how professionals, even tech-savvy ones, can be stumped by “PEBCAC” (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard) or “ID10T” errors.
  • “Do you know what PEPCAK means? … Problem exists between chair and keyboard.” (Evan, 03:29)

Family Road Trip Traditions and Detours

• [05:51] Cormac explains his long-standing post-graduation road trip ritual with each of his kids, using these journeys as “rites of passage.”
  • “Every time one of my children graduates high school… normally Evan and I go to the AIA conferences. And this time you decided not to go.” (Cormac, 05:51)
• The tradition survived COVID via adapted plans for his middle child, showing flexibility and the importance of family experience over strict tradition.

Route 66 and National Parks: The (Mostly) Non-Architectural Road Trip

• [09:41] The trip’s main loop: Detroit → St. Louis (Route 66 pickup) → San Diego, with detours through botanical gardens, national parks (10 parks, 18 states), and iconic American roadside stops.
  • “My daughter… she just wanted to see this, this, this, and this… architecture was inevitable.” (Cormac, 11:29)

Architectural Pilgrimage—Blending Vacation And Profession

• Botanical Gardens & Awards

  • Missouri Botanical Gardens, including pride in his firm’s award-winning visitor center.
  • “Funny enough, did not realize that we were actually about to receive an interior design award at the AIA National Convention for that project.” (Cormac, 12:53)

• Visiting Past Projects

  • Returning to inspect a previous project at Washington University, Cormac nervously checks how his exterior steel detailing has held up after a decade.
  • “Thank goodness, ten years later, still looking good.” (Cormac, 14:54)

• Lessons on Durability & Detailing

  • Cormac and Evan joke about poor execution on high-profile projects.
  • “You better detail it right, and you better treat it right.” (Cormac 15:55)

• Iconic Stops: Wright, Sullivan, and ‘Parking Garages’

  • Homage to Louis Sullivan’s Wainwright Building, failed attempt to get daughter up the St. Louis Arch.
    • “She was like, isn’t the purpose of the… Arch to see it, not see from it? I’m like, you’re probably right.” (Cormac, 17:42)

Landmark Experiences: Thorncrown Chapel and Pop 66

• [19:11] Thorncrown Chapel: A powerful architectural experience impresses even his previously detached daughter.
  • “She’s like, this place is amazing. She goes, why don’t you guys do spaces like this all the time?” (Cormac, 20:22)
  • “That’s really insightful, actually—how people experience architecture or buildings, for the most part, not architecture… why can’t everything be like this?” (Evan, 20:33)
• [27:22] Pop 66 (Rand Elliott project, Oklahoma): Architectural “destination” blending kitschy roadside America with sophisticated design—a highlight for both.
  • “The cantilever on this thing… was like, damn, this is amazing.” (Cormac, 28:57)
  • Memorable roadside encounter with a conspiracy theorist at a gas station offers unpredictable “only-in-America” flavor.
    • “I needed to hear this story to the end.” (Cormac sharing his daughter’s reaction, 32:10)

Route to San Diego: Joshua Tree, National Parks, Disappointments

• [36:25] Traversing Joshua Tree from south to north; daughter is underwhelmed by the quantity of actual Joshua Trees.
• Taliesin West, Arcosanti—missed chances due to timing, but intentions to return noted.

The Salk Institute: Why Our Favorite Building "Looks Like a Parking Garage"

• [43:25 – 52:09] A major motif: the Salk Institute’s legendary status among architects versus outsider (his daughter’s) perspective.
  • “We’re going to a parking garage?” (Cormac’s daughter, as quoted, 43:55)
  • “She just kept hearing me wax poetically about… we’re sitting there talking… and she’s just looking at me like, are you kidding me? This is like, it’s no Thorn Crown Chapel.” (Cormac, 47:33)
• Discussion on experiencing “real” architecture—audience’s vs. architects’ perceptions.

Keynote Conference Reflections and Networking

• [56:30] The actual AIA Convention: networking, reunions, lackluster keynotes.
  • “A lot of the great things about the conference are… always the networking, the meeting up with your friends and… extending that beyond…” (Cormac, 56:30)
  • A friend is elevated to Fellowship; comments on the arduous process and personal pride.
• Alumni events missed and the often-disconnected nature of the architectural community’s networking.

Road Trip After the Conference—West Coast Architectural “Greatest Hits”

• Driving the California Coast
  • Attempts (thwarted by closures) to see Hearst Castle, LACMA; drive-bys of Frank Gehry’s house in Malibu.
  • “So she just kept looking at me like, you know… give me some symmetry, damn it!” (Cormac on his daughter’s taste, 71:41)
• John Deere Headquarters: Satisfies Cormac’s “Architecture 101 slideshow” ambitions.
  • “The jewel box from Louis Sullivan… Iowa is definitely a architecture-rich state…” (Cormac, 85:07)

Travel Mishaps and Epilogue

• Lost iPad saga
  • “For 545 miles, that thing stayed mag… magnetized to the roof of the truck… until… it let go.” (Cormac, 77:51)
• Reflections on being “podcast famous” after being recognized by voice twice during the trip.
  • “I know your voice. You have a podcast. It’s the Archispeak podcast, right?” (Cormac, 89:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why shows like Archispeak exist:
  “This isn’t a highlight reel. It’s the conversation architects actually have—about the hard parts of practice, the moments that define a career, and the things no one tells you in architecture school.” — [Intro]

• On generational gaps:
  “As a parent, give me a break… they don’t trust architects and engineers enough to go to the top of things.” (Cormac, 18:42)

• On the allure of Thorncrown Chapel:
  “She was just like… ‘why don’t you guys do spaces like this all the time?’” (Cormac's daughter, 20:22)

• On the Salk Institute’s appeal (or lack thereof):
  “Wait, the parking garage? We’re going to a parking garage? …Yeah, well, it looks like a parking garage, like you said.” (Cormac’s daughter, 43:55)

• On networking at conventions:
  “I had to answer for you so many times—where’s Evan?” (Cormac, 64:42)

• On being recognized through podcasting:
  “It is so weird that people recognize me by my voice.” (Cormac, 51:01)

• On travel mishaps:
  “For 545 miles, that thing stayed magnetized to the roof of the truck until… it let go.” (Cormac, 77:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:34–03:48 – Microphone “user error” confessions; humorous banter on IT acronyms.
• 05:51–14:54 – Cormac’s family road trip tradition; inspection of his own “legacy” projects.
• 19:11–23:18 – Thorncrown Chapel: sharing architecture with a (reluctant) next generation.
• 27:22–34:53 – Route 66, POP 66, and oddball American encounters.
• 36:25–42:17 – Joshua Tree, missed Arizona/California architecture destinations.
• 43:25–52:09 – The Salk Institute pilgrimage: architects’ reverence vs. outsider confusion.
• 56:30–61:19 – AIA Conference: networking and keynotes, Fellowship reflections.
• 66:09–72:39 – West coast drive, iconic projects, Gehry’s house reactions.
• 77:51–80:44 – The great iPad roof saga.
• 85:07–87:16 – John Deere HQ and the architectural riches of Iowa.
• 89:35–91:40 – Being recognized via podcasting; “podcast famous” reflections.
• 93:48–94:48 – Total trip mileage and the cost of road tripping in 2026.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a love letter to architectural pilgrimage, a meditation on the gap between professional dreams and client/end-user reality, and a hilarious travelogue. Cormac and Evan’s banter gives listeners a window into how architectural knowledge shapes the way places are perceived—and underscores how much meaning is built not just in buildings, but in the stories and rituals we construct around them.

Listener tip: For photos and route maps, check out Cormac’s Instagram as referenced in the episode.

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Transcript

[Host]

And we're back.

[Cormac]

We are.

[Host]

Carmack. What the hell have you been up to? So this is going to be. How long are we going to give ourselves for this episode? But let's just set some expectations here.

[Cormac]

No, no. I mean, you know, you've got some things. I've got some things. We got a lot of things.

[Host]

I'm willing to let you say all

[Cormac]

the things because you have a way

[Host]

bigger list of on the like. Like Cormac's. What I've been up to roster is.

[Cormac]

Yeah, well, funny thing here. So I got to come clean with you.

[Host]

Okay.

[Cormac]

You know how we tried to record a little while ago and I was having microphone issues?

[Host]

I do remember that. Yes.

[Cormac]

Yes. And we couldn't get my microphone to work, and you watched me, like, unplug it and plug it back in and all these other things.

[Host]

Have you tried unplugging it and replugging it back in? Let's always start there. Yeah.

[Cormac]

Okay, you ready to. You ready to both laugh, get mad, whatever?

[Host]

Tell me. Tell me about your incompetence right now.

[Cormac]

Really? Ready?

[Host]

Yep.

[Cormac]

Do you know that my microphone has an actual mute button on it that I did not know about?

[Host]

Are you serious? Oh, my gosh.

[Cormac]

Here.

[Host]

Karmic. You're muted.

[Cormac]

You're muted. Lifting this up.

[Host]

And so I'm getting some feedback. I'm getting some feedback. Don't mess with it. Don't, don't. Don't mess with it.

[Cormac]

There's a button underneath it from, like, the way that I've mounted it that I did not know it existed because I just never, never seen it. And so apparently, the last time I had moved it, when you moved it,

[Host]

you just grabbed it, and I grabbed

[Cormac]

it and mute and muted myself. And so here we are, you and I are trying to record, trying to troubleshoot it and all this other stuff. I'm using other, you know, microphones to communicate with you. And you're like, yeah, this is not gonna work. We're not gonna be able to record her. Right. And literally is because this button on my microphone that I should have known was there.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

That I did not know was there. I muted myself. Jeez. And I was gonna give you some, like, long little spiel about, man. It took me a while, but I finally got it, finally fixed it.

[Host]

It was that window. It was the case, the dog homework.

[Cormac]

Honestly, I thought. At first, I thought it was the Windows update because I had updated the wind, my windows from 10 to 11. And my microphone does have issues with that. However, it has even Bigger issues with its operator.

[Host]

Yes. PEBCAC or ID 10T. These are the it. You know, the, the secret code that

[Cormac]

absolute professionals use when they're working with some percent ID 10T. For sure. I, I, I did it. And I'm like, you know what? I could lie to him and say that, you know, oh, yeah, it was Windows and, and got it updated and seems to be working fine now. Or I could just tell him, yeah, I was an ID10T.

[Host]

If you don't know what an ID10T is, listener, just look it up.

[Cormac]

Yeah, just write it out.

[Host]

Just write it out. There you go. That's even easier. Do you know what PEPCAK means?

[Cormac]

I don't know. Pepcat.

[Host]

Problem exists between chair and keyboard.

[Cormac]

There you go. Yep. That's another one. I haven't heard that one, but I like that one. I just either go id 10t or user error. Yeah, yeah. Or you a big dump.

[Host]

Okay, so I think we've buried the lead long enough. Cormac. Yeah. What have you been up to?

[Cormac]

Oh, what have I been up to?

[Host]

Because I don't even remember what I've been up to, but I remember what you've been up to. I mean, you.

[Cormac]

What was funny is I was actually saga.

[Host]

You've.

[Cormac]

I was waiting on this story for, for your van conversion and all of that other stuff.

[Host]

Well, that, that's an episode. That is an episode.

[Cormac]

And so we'll talk about that later in.

[Host]

I think we will talk about that later because that's a show and tell. I think I got, I got pictures. I've got video. I think. Okay, so the short version of that story. So we finished the van build, we delivered the van to Nebraska. It was amazing. I was. My goal was to make her cry. There were no tears. It wasn't. I, I didn't get the payoff I wanted. So anyway, that's the short version. We'll go into the longer version in a later episode.

[Cormac]

Don't expect a military personnel to provide you tears.

[Host]

That's what I wanted.

[Cormac]

Trained to be tearless.

[Host]

I don't know about that, but that's

[Cormac]

true

[Host]

in your training. See if you can come out tearless.

[Cormac]

Oh, my gosh. Don't even make, don't even make me

[Host]

remember giving you some PTSD flashbacks right now. Yeah.

[Cormac]

Oh, my God. I have never in my life snotted so much in, like, from places I didn't know snot could come from. Oh, man. Thanks.

[Host]

Where does not come from?

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

Great. Oh, man.

[Cormac]

So. So, yeah. 6,800. Wait.

[Host]

Sorry.

[Cormac]

6,783.3 miles of a journey, dude. Dude of a journey.

[Host]

That's a big.

[Cormac]

So that's what it. So that's what I've been up to.

[Host]

Yeah, that's a big.

[Cormac]

So, I mean.

[Host]

I mean, let's. Okay, Cormac, let's lean in. Can you unpack that for me?

[Cormac]

Sure. So every time. Every time one of my children graduates high school, typically, it's obviously at the end of. The end of the school year when the AIA convention happens. And normally Evan and I go to the AIA conferences. And this time you decided not to go. How dare you. Jeez. Left me wandering.

[Host]

I did have some fomo and I'm

[Cormac]

wandering the floor on.

[Host]

I didn't miss going, so I don't know.

[Cormac]

Yeah, we'll. We'll talk about that when I get to that part. But. But in the past, what it. What I've done is. And it started in 2019 when we had the Las Vegas AIA convention, where my eldest came with me and graduated high school, came out to the conference with me, rented a car, and then basically drove from the Vegas conference to Los Angeles, visited some friends there, went to the coast, went to the coast, hit the Pacific coast, and then turned around and drove all the way back to the Atlantic coast, trying our damnedest, in most cases, to stay off of highways unless it was just, like, absolutely necessary, which anybody who's ever traveled Route 66 knows that not all of Route 66 exists. And so you have to hop on the interstate for that one. And so this was no different. My last child, unfortunately, my middle child, he sort of lost out because of COVID However we are.

[Host]

You can't drive during COVID What are you saying right now?

[Cormac]

Well, it was. It was. It was all at the height of it and stuff.

[Host]

And then, of course, he didn't want to do it. You didn't want to do it. How has he been deprived of this?

[Cormac]

Well, well, he sort of age. He sort. He sort of wanted to kind of just sit this one out because he just was. You know, everybody was worried about everything.

[Host]

I also have. Have the coming of age ritual thing, and. And two of three opted out. And I'm like, what? Come on, people.

[Cormac]

So. So he. He doesn't want to truly opt out. His. His plans are. Is that what will happen is when he graduates college, which. Because he's got a. He's got a couple of extra semesters, it will be this December when he graduates, and probably going to wait. I mean, we had always kind of joked about, well, what if we did a Miami to Anchorage trip and we would drive Miami to Anchorage? Dude, we're. We're coming up with all sorts of, like, crazy stuff. Now. Fast forward to.

[Host]

So, delayed gratification means this trip's going to cost way more. That's what I'm hearing.

[Cormac]

You know me, though, like, I have an interesting way to make it less. Less expensive than it sounds.

[Host]

Sleeping in the car. Yeah, I got it.

[Cormac]

I've done that before. Yeah, so. So this one was no different. So my youngest, which is my daughter, she graduated this. You know, just this this past June and aligned with the AI Convention in San Diego. And I, you know, we had mentioned it, like, ages ago, hey, you're about to graduate. Do you want to do a road trip? He says, okay, sure. It was just kind of, like, so very blase. So I wasn't really sure if she was into it or not.

[Host]

I totally get that from her all the time. Right? Like, that's. That's her general response.

[Cormac]

It's like her general. Exactly.

[Host]

Take it.

[Cormac]

And so I guess. And so she had. She came back, like, as it was getting closer, and she was just like, well, you know, we're doing this thing, right? I'm like, okay. You're like, this is a confirmation that you actually want to do it. Like, okay, well, what do you want to do? And so she's like, well, we definitely want to drive to, you know, San Diego. There's a couple of things that I want to see along the way. And I'm like, cool. Like, let's do this differently than what we did with your brother. Why don't we drive from Detroit to San Diego, and then we'll. We'll map out some other things. And so, you know, you've. You've seen the map, You've seen the thing, and you. You were actually one of the pit stops. But what we ended up doing was we decided to drive from Detroit and go from Detroit kind of as best as we can, try to quickly get to Route 66 as we can and try to drive as much of Route 66 that exists from where we picked it up as we picked it up in St. Louis. Cool thing about St. Louis is we got an opportunity. I got to go back and visit.

[Host]

Let me.

[Cormac]

Let me throw out the disclaimer. This was not an architectural road trip.

[Host]

I'm gonna. I'm. I'm gonna force you, though, because this is an architectural podcast. Those are going to be the main highlights.

[Cormac]

Yes, there were some architectural Stops, for sure.

[Host]

Yes. And much to her dismay.

[Cormac]

Much. Much to her dismay. And. And it was purposeful because, you know, I didn't want to bore her. I've bored her enough throughout her lifetime with taking her to job site.

[Host]

But also, she understands you have an architectural podcast and you have to serve the audience. Come on, we need content.

[Cormac]

And. But she did say, here, look, this is. This came straight out of her mouth, not mine. Look. She's like, I don't really care, you know, what path we take or what we stop and see. She goes, I know we're going to see some architecture. I just want to stop and see this, this, this, and this. Like, okay, so we got to weave in architecture as part of all of that. And in fact, many of the places that she wanted to stop included architecture because of the very nature of what they were. So we did. So. So our first stop, we picked up Route 66 at. In St. Louis. So we drove from Detroit to St. Louis kind of on day one. And we. Because we were in St. Louis, I got to. I said, hey, do you want to go to the botanical gardens? She's like, absolutely. I love to, you know, go to The Botanical Gardens. St. Louis Botanical Gardens. Oh, my God, Amazing.

[Host]

Like, botanical gardens everywhere are just.

[Cormac]

Yes, yes.

[Host]

A thing. You should do them. Yes.

[Cormac]

Now, I will say that the Missouri Botanical Gardens. I should probably call it by its proper name, the Missouri Botanical Gardens. We did the new visitors center there. We, as are my architecture firm, Harrison Gross, so.

[Host]

Oh, okay. I get it. I get it. We.

[Cormac]

I actually got to go and see this. Funny enough, did not realize that we were actually about to receive a interior design award at the AIA National Convention for that project. So fortuitously, I sent it to a couple of people that I knew were involved with the project, and they're like, oh, my God. You know. You know, actually, they were. When I sent them photographs, you know, it had like, you know, the velvet robe, like, you know, stuff all around there and stuff. They're like, hey, can you move those and get better pictures?

[Host]

Like.

[Cormac]

Like, no, I'm not going to do that. But we got a chance to see that. And anybody who's listening long enough knows that I had a project in St. Louis at the. At Washington University and went to go and see how that was holding up. Hasn't been that recent.

[Host]

Come on. It better be holding up really well. Come on.

[Cormac]

I mean, five years. It's four years. Ten years. No way. Yeah, it's been ten years, dude. Since. Since completion.

[Host]

What?

[Cormac]

And so in the. In the main thing about that. So you know how I always love to, like, preach about. It's like, you know, if you're gonna. You, you know, if you're gonna do something, especially like, let's just say, and here's what I'm, you know, trying to get it, you know, if you're gonna do exterior steel, you know, exteriorly exposed steel, you better know what you're doing. You better detail it right, and you better treat it right. Because we've talked on occasion about things like I went and visited Renzo Piano's building in. At the Chicago Art Institute and how it's rusting and, you know, the Frank Gehry building right next door and how it was rusting and all of this exterior steel and knowing at the time when I was complaining about them, that I, not too long in my past had completed one where I had a lot of exterior steel. Thank goodness, 10 years later, still looking good.

[Host]

Nice. Yeah, I remember the. The comments you had on Millennium Park. Oh, my gosh.

[Cormac]

Oh, my God.

[Host]

And.

[Cormac]

And thank. Good. Thank goodness it. It was holding up because I was just like, I don't want to be one of these people who.

[Host]

But I remember you blaming Frank Gary. You. You were blaming him for. For, for this.

[Cormac]

That might have been. Yeah, well, it's just the fact someone's

[Host]

got to take responsibility for this. Might as well be Frank, if, If

[Cormac]

you're going to go through the effort of doing all of that. Now, get. Don't get me wrong, you know, you know, I, I appreciate a good Renzo building as much as the next person, but if you were going to spend that much money detailing out, you know, the amazing level of detail that his buildings are doing, and you're going to do exterior expose. Exterior, exposed exterior steel, or some form of English thereof.

[Host]

Any. Any order that those words could go in.

[Cormac]

You could pick any order of those.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

Then you need to make sure that you treat it right. Detail it right to make sure that it stands, you know, withstand. If you remember elements.

[Host]

Gary's building. What's the name of the building at mit?

[Cormac]

My gosh. Yes.

[Host]

Oh, man.

[Cormac]

Or.

[Host]

Or just go visit, like, basically any.

[Cormac]

The stratus.

[Host]

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Or. Or go visit any morphosis building. It's like, oh, yeah, come on.

[Cormac]

Yes. Yes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And. And so, you know, you. You just. If you're going to do that, you better do it right so that it holds up. Because, you know, we talk about, like, you know, longevity of buildings, maintenance of buildings. I mean, hell, Part of lead, the lead tenants are, is trying to be somewhat maintenance free. And so if you're going to do things like that, you got to do it right. And man, was I.

[Host]

But people cheat out all over the place.

[Cormac]

People cheap out. And so I was sort of sweating bullets. I was just like, I'm gonna go see this. But I swear.

[Host]

So you were. You already had a story in your mind of how bad it was gonna be?

[Cormac]

Yeah, I was just like. You're like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be terrible.

[Host]

It's gonna be rust. It's gonna be, it's gonna be like. There's gonna be holes in Swiss cheese. That steel. It's gonna look like Swiss cheese. Come on.

[Cormac]

And, and though it could probably, with it could probably stand a little bit of a power wash. No rust, no steel, no streaks, no like rusting streaks, no nothing like that and stuff. So.

[Host]

All right, all right, all right. Enough with your steel story. Geez, this is like the most boring part of this. Come on. Did you not want architecture get to the good stuff?

[Cormac]

So of course I had to go and pay, you know, my, my visit to Louis Sullivan went by the Wayne Wright Building. Went by, of course, you know, paid homage to Harrow and could not convince my daughter to go to the top of the St. Louis Arch.

[Host]

Are you serious?

[Cormac]

To save my life? She was like, yep. Nope. She's like, I can see it from here. She's like, isn't the, isn't the purpose of the. This dramatic arch is to be. To see it, not see from it? I'm like, you're probably right. She's like, yeah. And I, I don't want to go up there. So I'm like, come on. I was like, how many times have you ever gone up a diagonal, you know, diagonal elevator?

[Host]

Yeah. In like a little tiny capsule.

[Cormac]

Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh.

[Host]

You. You.

[Cormac]

You've been up there, right?

[Host]

Claustrophobic capsule.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

That creaks its way up to the top.

[Cormac]

There's those little weird pill shaped five seaters.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, very weird. Very weird. They're, they're. It's fun though. It's an adventure and it's an experience.

[Cormac]

And it is.

[Host]

Come on.

[Cormac]

Apparently. Look, I, I haven't. We've been in New York and they won't go to the Empire State Building to the top of it. We've been to Chicago and they won't go to the top of the Sears Tower. They just won't do any of those things. Like anything that deals with heights as

[Host]

a Parent, give me a break. Apparent.

[Cormac]

Apparently. I mean, they, they can climb to a top of a hill and overlook, you know, something, but that's under their own power. But they don't trust architects and engineers enough to go to the top of things. I don't know how, how well this is made, you know, so, yeah, fair enough. Whatever. So, you know, so then the road trip continues on, and the first bit of the something that's been on my bucket list. My bucket list is always like, My bucket list consists of the Architecture 101 slideshow that I was given, you know, decades ago that, you know, just flashed through some of the most amazing spaces that I've ever seen. And, and so I, I pull up the website and I send it to my daughter. And I said, hey, this isn't quite on the way, but it's not too far off of the path. Do you want to go here? She's like, sure. She goes, that looks kind of cool. Like, all right, so we're on our way to Thorn Crown Chapel, the wonderful E. Jones. Just amazing space that. Could we have probably stayed there, Both of us. Could we have probably stayed there the entire day and just sat there in that space? Yeah, even her. I mean, she was just like. I was sitting down next to her and I look over at her and I'm asking her, I'm like, you know, well, thoughts. She's like, this place is amazing. She goes, why don't you guys do spaces like this all the time?

[Host]

Yeah, that's how the world works.

[Cormac]

Exactly. Oh, yeah. Because this would be appropriate for a school. She goes, I'd go to this school.

[Host]

Yeah, like you are right.

[Cormac]

I mean,

[Host]

it's true, though. I mean, that's, that's really insightful, actually. When you think about how people experience architecture or buildings, for the most part, not architecture, and then to actually get into a piece of architecture that does evoke emotion or a response or the senses or. And, and, and, and it's like, oh, this is different. Right? And then, and then it's like, well, why can't everything be like this? It's like, well, that's what we've been trying to say.

[Cormac]

But you're like, trust me, we would love to do all of this all the time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

You know, I, I don't think that there would be a disgruntled architect if we could do this all the time. Like, we would just like, yeah, this is great. I want to do more of this.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

But so, and it was great. And, and then, you know, I was in communication with, well, with Marlon Blackwell. And, you know, unfortunately, he was out of office, so I couldn't really go and visit him because he was actually, you know, on his way to the AIA convention too. Probably not in a car, though, because who, who does. Who drives from Detroit to San Diego?

[Host]

Lunatics, that's who.

[Cormac]

Lunatics. And. But he. But when we were talking, he was just like, oh, you know, you should try to go and buy Crystal Bridges and there's new building that's opening up. And also we've done something there. And it was the weekend that I think the new Softee building was opening up and it was pouring down rain once we left Thorn Crown Chapel and we headed in that direction. And by the way, it's going to sound kind of weird, but the Walmart headquarters campus. Holy crap. It's nice.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, it really is. Is that like Bentonville area or where.

[Cormac]

Yeah, in. In Bentonville, Arkansas. Yeah. And. And so as we're driving to that, it's just pouring down, right? You can barely see the, you know, the front of the hood of the car that. And so we then got into a small little traffic jam of a whole bunch of other people trying to go to. To Crystal Bridges as well. And so we ultimately did not go

[Host]

because we pulled their ejection seat handle.

[Cormac]

Yeah, we pulled. We pulled the ejection seat and decided just, well, maybe next time. And it is definitely looking at it. It is definitely something that there should be a next time. You know, just even revisiting Thorn Crown Chapel is enough. Take me, you know. Yeah.

[Host]

Raising my hand. Take. Take me.

[Cormac]

Absolutely. Let's. Let's do that. And so, you know, we. We decided we were gonna, you know, just kind of head on. And so, you know, let's see. You know, we were in Missouri, then we were in Arkansas. And then as we started to, like, you know, continue to drive through, we were in. We were in Oklahoma. And then. And so what was amazing is like, so of all of the places, there was only one place that my daughter has been on this trip. And we did 18 states and 10 national parks. And a lot of. In at least half of those national parks I'd never been to, which were absolutely amazing. And a few of the states I had never been to, but, you know, the states in the Southern states and stuff, I had been to those. And. But she had only been to Texas because we went to a Formula one race in Texas. But other than that, everything was a new experience, a new thing for her to check off her Box of like, you know, have you been to. You know. Because I, I think what. There's some stat that says the average American only sees like, you know, like eight states in their lifetime or something like that, which, oh my gosh, in, in a way seems unfathomable.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

Because funny enough, I am especially on the East Coast.

[Host]

Come on.

[Cormac]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

I am now walk to five states

[Cormac]

of the lower 48. Of the lower 48 states. I am only missing one state. Oh, and I was going to do that one state. I was going to do that one state. But we just kind of were starting to get a little road weary and so we decided to.

[Host]

At mile 6700.

[Cormac]

Well, at mile wherever it was that your house is, instead of going north, we decided to go east in. And so go through the boring stuff. Yeah. Which you know.

[Host]

Yeah. Quite boring for a while to go east from here.

[Cormac]

If, if you recall. So you and I were at a Monterey design conference some years ago and there was this guy who walks up on stage and, you know, he's all dressed in black and he's got some slick back hair in this little ponytail and some glasses, little black glasses and stuff. We kind of looked us like, who's this guy? And then he gets up on stage and he introduces himself. Hi, I'm Rand Elliott.

[Host]

Didn't he start with a poem?

[Cormac]

He started with a poem. He said, not only do you. Not only do I have it, but I also have a book of poetry and photographs and sketches that he sent me. That he sent me. That was amazing. And so, and so we, we, you know, you and I kind of like looked at. He's like, who's this guy? You know, because he's, he's so exuded, like this almost arrogant architect. But he was like the furthest thing from it. He, he gave probably one of the most impassioned. I mean, to me, I was, I told you, I was just like some of the best, best architectural lectures are when you're so, like, charged up that it felt like a Rocky movie.

[Host]

There's, there's definitely talks like that at the Monterey Design Conference.

[Cormac]

I mean, there's.

[Host]

We need to, we need to see about getting there this year. I don't know if it's in the cards, but Tibby Rothman, when you reach out to her, the, the Deborah Burke, I mean, she comes to mind speaking.

[Cormac]

Oh, I mean, they were like. I mean, you know, we're getting off topic. Meryl Elam was there, you know, if you remember. I mean, there was, there was Great. There were absolutely some great, you know, talks there. But the reason why I bring up, you know, Rand Elliott was, is because, you know, as he's going through all of this stuff, he shows this one project that he did that was on Route 66. We were on Route 66. That was the soda pop store. That's the soda pop store. So pop, pop 66.

[Host]

Pop 66.

[Cormac]

Pop 66.

[Host]

And did you get to see it at night?

[Cormac]

It's got a 66 foot soda bottle which is the, you know, which is the thing right up front.

[Host]

The iconic, the iconic thing.

[Cormac]

And so what we decided to do, and this was a hard choice for me, but it wasn't really a hard choice for my daughter, but it was a hard choice for me. I could have either driven off of our path a bit about an hour and 45 minutes one way. So let's just say four hours out of our way and then just the milling around of that to go and see the Frank Lloyd Wright, the Price Tower. I could have gone and seen that. Which I really wanted to see, which means that I have to go back to Arkansas, I mean, Oklahoma sometimes. But I decided to go to see the Rand Elliott Project instead, which, you know, I don't know if we got the full perspective of this project when he was presenting it to us, but the cantilever on this thing, so it's basically this series of like, like a space truss anchored on one side, pinned in the middle and with this big, big long cantilever.

[Host]

66ft probably.

[Cormac]

No, a lot further than that. Oh yeah, like a lot further than that. And it was just, it was like, damn, this is amazing.

[Host]

Impressive.

[Cormac]

It was extremely impressive. So it's, it's a, it's a gas station, it's a soda shop. You know, you can, you know, it's a small cafe. Of course they sell all the trinkets. You know, for Route 66 you can, they've got this.

[Host]

But they actually made a destination, right?

[Cormac]

Like they made a destination, it's a destination.

[Host]

So people want to go there and then you get this extra payoff of that experience.

[Cormac]

And then so like it was something that, like, if we were gonna go, we were hungry, she wanted a soda, she wanted to see what they had because all of this other stuff. So I mean, it wasn't anything that I was like, you know, twisting her arm. Let's go see this weird architecture. You know, it was, you know, hey, let's go get some food. Oh, by the way, it's going to be in this really cool place. And so, you know, as we were there, you know, there were people from Germany, there were people from England. You know, there were all these different, you know, people, like, who made pilgrimage. The. The people from Germany were clad in all of this, like, kitschy Route 66 garb and stuff. I mean, it was just like, there was one person who was literally doing the entire stretch of Route 66. They came to America, and all they wanted to do is do the whole Route 66 thing. And so they were there riding Route 66. And. And that was the kind of. The fun thing about this is just like, you're gonna see some things on Route 66 that you. That time has forgotten. Waldrug. All of the. Actually, no Waldro. Sorry. That's up in South. That. That's in South Dakota. So I was in the wrong state anyway. But, I mean, you're gonna see, like, all, you know, things like that, you know, all along that, you know, you're gonna see some things that because of the interstate, you know, that time is forgotten. And in everything else, you're gonna, you know, run into some lady as you're filling up your gas tank, and she's gonna start telling you about this covert CIA program where they're, you know, using black magic to harvest women's, you know, sex organs to create and reproduce, you know, create children for explicit use by the CIA. I know that that doesn't sound like a very architectural trip, but that was. That was one of my experiences at a gas station where this lady comes up to me and she starts telling me this. And, you know, first, you know, at first she looks at, you know, the back of my truck, and I've got, you know, a U.S. army veteran thing on there and all this other stuff. And she, you know, was. He was thanking me for my service, and I was like, okay, you know, cool. Thank you, and stuff. And then she started, like, in on this.

[Host]

Just needed someone to talk to.

[Cormac]

Absolutely amazing tale of.

[Host]

And you. And you have to, like, entertain it because you are who you are, and you can't just say, you know, I've got to get on the road. See ya.

[Cormac]

I should. I totally should have, except for so. So then after a while, I start knocking on the TR. Truck. And, you know, because my daughter.

[Host]

Please come save me.

[Cormac]

My daughter's sitting in the passenger seat, and I'm, like, knocking on the truck, you know, hoping that she would get out and come and say, hey, you know, it's time for us to go. She said, no, no, no. She heard Me knocking on it. She's like, I knew what you were doing. She goes, but I needed to fit. She says, I needed to hear this story to the end. It was just like, you got to be kidding me. She's like. And then. Okay, so then she's like telling me this fantastical story about being chased by, you know, that she's a PhD that used to teach at some university and I'm going to keep the names of the universities and all this other stuff. And she was like, run out because people thought that she was crazy because of the, you know, the, the harvesting that was happening to her and everything else. And she felt like the university was in on it. And you know, and then, you know, she said that she had, you know, tried to travel to Big Bend, Texas where the Freemasons had taught. You know, she was, she was a grandchild of two different Freemasons who. That her. Her grandfathers taught her how to break the spell so that she couldn't be trapped. And so there was a certain tree that she could go to in the Big Bend, Texas area that if she sat under that, that, that would break the spell. And you know, in. I guess we weren't necessarily too terribly far from Texas, although I felt like we were pretty far from the Big Bend area. But it was still one of these like really weird things. And, and so as she's like going on and on and on, you know, like my daughter's hearing all of this and she's like, you know, but I got to hear all of this story. Like, I've got to have, I've got to have closure to this story. So then the lady, you know, you know, goes, she's like, she's like, I need. She's like, she's like, I see that your wife's with you. You know, if you, if you get trapped between a couple of semis, you need to get out of there and keep driving because if your wife starts to feel warm, that means that the semi in front of her is using black magic to, you know, like, harvest her. And I was just like. Then I was like, oh, that's. I was just like, you're starting to freak me out now because it's not my wife, that's actually my daughter. And she looks at me. Absolutely. Just wide eyed. She looks at me and she's like, your daughter, you know, she was like, are you trying to harvest. Harvest me for her? Like, wait, what? Where did this come from? And then she was just like, I got to get out of here.

[Host]

But Yeah, I talked to the wrong person.

[Cormac]

Yeah, apparently. Yeah.

[Host]

So, yeah, we're. We're 35 minutes in and we're still in Oklahoma. Let's, let's.

[Cormac]

It's like, you know, a few states away. I mean, you know, I've already hit a few of them. So anyway, so. Yeah, so, you know, continue to keep on marching. Went through what you call it, New Mexico. Thought that she was gonna like that, but she was more impressed with Arizona. She liked the Petrified Forest. She liked Sedona. We took. Then, you know, as we were kind of like heading towards California, we hit the, you know, I kind of made her, you know, asked her, you know, what. What do you think? Do you want to like. Look, we can. If we turn here, we can go to Joshua Tree or we can go down to, To San Diego. She's like, well, you know, in one of my. One of my thoughts was if we go through Joshua Tree, maybe we could also hit Palm Springs, which she was not a. She. She nixed that idea, which kind of depressed me. But, you know, whatever. I'll go, you know, that'll be.

[Host]

Could have gone and seen the Kaufman house or something.

[Cormac]

All sorts of stuff.

[Host]

There's so many things.

[Cormac]

All sorts of things.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

So. So as we, you know, so she was like, yeah, you know, you know, I see a lot of people who, you know, have. Either are like wearing Joshua Tree stuff or, you know, at school and stuff. So let's go. Let's go check that out.

[Host]

Did you guys go through the north entrance or the south entrance?

[Cormac]

So we, we entered in through the south entrance and exited.

[Host]

Way to get in.

[Cormac]

So exited out through the northex.

[Host]

Oh, okay.

[Cormac]

Entrance.

[Host]

Okay.

[Cormac]

So we went through the whole thing, you know.

[Host]

So you did get to see the, the rock formations and stuff.

[Cormac]

We did. We did, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[Host]

Because the south entrance is, is. It's a little like a weird way to go in because it's, it's. I don't know, it's just. It's very different. You go through like the cactus. The cholla cactus gardens and stuff like that.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which we slowly work your way up.

[Cormac]

Yeah, we stopped, we stopped at, you know, we, we stopped at the, the cactus garden, walked through there, took a bunch of pictures and stuff. And I'm trying to. While I'm here. Started to get all of the. At every single stop, you know, started to get the, the. The. The walking stick plates.

[Host]

Oh, okay. I was wondering what those. Thought you were going to start pin pinning those on your, on your.

[Cormac]

So I got A whole like. Although, you know. Yeah, pinning. You should have got some pins too. But no, got like a whole ton of the walking stick plates for the walking stick that I've had since I was 18 years old in Germany.

[Host]

Dang.

[Cormac]

Yeah, that's cool. So it's, it's seen some miles and seen some things. It's seen some things. But you know, what was interesting about it is like, you know, she, she was a little like, you know, you know, the Joshua Tree. You know, I expected more. Joshua Tree. She goes, if she's going to name. You're going to name this big old park after. After a tree, there should be more of those.

[Host]

The road goes by a few of them, but yeah, there's many more.

[Cormac]

Yeah. So. So what was funny is that when we exited out of the north side, went through, you know, 29 palms and places like that, we saw be these big massive Joshua trees. And we're like, not in the park. And she's like, why weren't they in the park? So then we, you know, then we hook our, our southwest journey, you know, finally got to San Diego, which was, you know, San Diego itself. It was funny. So this was the first time I'd ever been to San Diego. Many times I've been to California. I just did, you know, just hadn't had the opportunity to get to San Diego. Got close, but not close enough. And I was always told, you know, growing up in St. Petersburg, Florida, that San Diego was a lot like St. Petersburg, Florida, but just bigger. And I'm just like, okay, well, I'll see for myself. I am here to tell you that San Diego, California is a lot like St. Petersburg, Florida, just bigger. It's a lot like St. Pete, just bigger. And so like the whole time we were there, my daughter kept saying, this feels like, you know, this feels like Florida. This feels like Florida. This feels like Florida. I was just like, you better not say that out loud because I don't think that they'll take offense to it.

[Host]

But we saw both locations are inhabited by many, many, many snowbirds or people who were sick of some cold weather somewhere.

[Cormac]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

So, yeah, they really made into one of the coasts.

[Cormac]

Yeah. And what was funny is like all of the outskirts of the beaches and all that other stuff felt so very Florida. It really did. So apologies.

[Host]

Humidity.

[Cormac]

Without the humidity, I will give you that. And although speaking of humidity, it while we were in Joshua Tree, I think it was about 110 according to the truck.

[Host]

Okay.

[Cormac]

And we got out and we were walking around and. But My daughter was just like, so where's this dry heat that they're talking about? She's like, this is bull. Because it was just like, you know, oh, it's desert heat, but it's a dry heat. She's like, huh, Whatever. She.

[Host]

She told me she prefers. She prefers the humidity. I'm like, you are crazy.

[Cormac]

Like, she did, actually, I forgot that she told you that. Yeah, it is very weird because, trust me, I don't.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, I'm.

[Cormac]

I'm. I'm perfectly fine with, you know, some nice dry desert climate or, I mean, you know, California is not dry desert. But, you know, weirdly, even on the coast, you don't have the same humidity.

[Host]

Right.

[Cormac]

That you have on the coast of Florida. Like, Florida's just swamp, you know? And I'm not talking about just the, you know, the physical locale. That's what it makes you feel like. You are. It feels like, you know, it makes you feel like you're in a swamp. But, yeah, I will say this. So there was a few things I was going to pull, like, a fast one on her and just say, oh, look, by the way, here we are at Arcosante. Here we are at, you know, Taliesin West. Funny thing, though, is that we were there early in the week and they only open from Wednesdays through Sundays. Yes. Guess what days we weren't there. Yeah. Wednesdays, three. We weren't there on a Wednesday through Sunday. Like, if we stayed two more days. Yeah.

[Host]

Because the conference started on, what, Wednesday or Thursday. So you started just before that.

[Cormac]

Yeah, so we were there just before that. And I was just like, man, I really wanted to see Taliesin Weston at the very least. Now, you and I talked about, you know, I didn't really miss much by not going to Arkansante, but I still sort of wanted to see it, you know.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, no, it's still worth seeing. I think it's worth seeing Cosanti and Arcosanti both when you're in the area for sure. And. But it's one of those things where the plans were much bigger than the reality, right?

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you experience the reality and kind of. It's hanging by a thread nature of that community. It's a little disappointing in the end, I think. So grand vision, not a lot of ability to follow through and pull it

[Cormac]

off, but didn't get a chance to go to Taliesin west. But it. It, you know, obviously, the plans in the future to try to get out there someday to. To see that.

[Host]

Yeah, it's worth it.

[Cormac]

But you know, one of the things in, in the San Diego area is the, you know, since I already knocked off one of my bucket list items and then I. Last year when you were and I were together and we got to go to whatchamacallit really what you could. Whatchamacallit.

[Host]

British Art Museum.

[Cormac]

Well, British Art Museum to exit the library. Yeah, Extra library has always been number one on my list, which of course apparently I couldn't remember it and called it whatchamacallit.

[Host]

Whatchamacallit. Library.

[Cormac]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatchamacallit. I didn't even, I didn't even even give it the library part of it. But anyway, so you know, once that was knocked off the list, then the second one to rise to the number one spot spot was. Was always the sulk and so had the opportunity to see it from the exterior. And so there's a few people who, you know, I, I think listen to the show who were on that excursion with me and we tried our damnedest to talk our way into the tour. We tried the sold out tours. Yes, the sold out tours that because they monopolized it, they bought up all of the tours and basically sold it through theirs. And you know, great. I mean you should be, because you're you know, trying to, you know, sell this nice experience of architecture and all of this other stuff. However, you know, like it was not packed. It was, you know, it was not this like massive. A large amount of people there and stuff. I mean I could see if like the entire courtyard was completely filled, you know, wall to wall bodies. No, there's like 25, 30 people on the tour. And so we were just like, come on, we're just, you know, we're just five people, like, you know, can we get on there? And my, my daughter. So here I gotta tell you this. So for days I've been meeting, you know, we started the, the, the convention, been meeting up with people, talking to people. Some of the after party events I took my daughter to, you know, took her to the Auburn alumni event, took her to the entree architect event, took her to a couple of different things. And every time I was talking, I was talking about the Salk Institute. When I see the Salk, everybody like, you know, oh my God, he's talking about the Salk. I want to go. Or you know, you know, it's, it's amazing. We, you know, you know, you should definitely go. You know, I, I saw it and it's, you know, incredible. Everybody that I talked to lit up. Then I, you know, then we get there. And so my daughter has heard her father talk with all of these other architects, and all of these architects are glowing about this building. Like, love this building. Want to see this building. You know, it's a. Definitely. It's an experience of a lifetime. She says, wait, the parking garage. We're going to a parking garage? And I'm like, it's not a parking garage. It's, you know, a concrete lab building. She's like, yeah, well, it looks like a parking garage, like you said.

[Host]

Well, and. And to be. And to be fair, she didn't get to go into the courtyard and explore it and under it and all of those things. But from the outside, it's just kind of.

[Cormac]

But I mean, it's.

[Host]

It's like the British Arts Museum from the outside. You look at the outside, and you're like, that's a pretty boring thing.

[Cormac]

We got to get. We got to go to space a lot of different places and really kind of experience at least the wrapper and stuff. And. And. And we did get a chance to, like, you know, kind of gear up over, you know, like, I climbed up a few things to, like, get to see into the courtyard. And so, you know, if anybody ventures over to my Instagram, they're gonna. They'll be able to see pretty much this entire trip and the photographs in from the trip and see what I could see, you know. Now is it, you know, peering down the channel, you know, towards the water in that iconic view? No, but.

[Host]

But I think that's when you actually start to get it right. It's like, oh. Because. Because looking into the courtyard, as a. As a non architect, I'm talking about from her perspective.

[Cormac]

Okay, okay, fair.

[Host]

Fair enough.

[Cormac]

Yeah. Yeah. Because for me, so, like, you know, we're, you know, walking around with, you know, a handful of people, and we're sitting there, we're chatting. We're talking about the rigor of the detailing and all of this other stuff. Oh, my gosh, look at this. And, oh, my gosh, look at this. And she's just looking at me like, are you kidding me?

[Host]

This is like, it's no Thorn Crown Chapel.

[Cormac]

She's like, exactly. She was just like, you know, I like that, you know, place, but this.

[Host]

It's not pop 66, right?

[Cormac]

She's just like, my gosh, this is like, you know, And. And she just kept hearing me wax on, you know, wax poetically about, oh, my gosh, look at this and this and this and this and this and you know, we're sitting there talking with, you know, all of our different friends about, you know, the architecture and stuff. And, you know, weirdly, like, you know, we walk up and, you know, a friend of the show, just a friend, Michelle Hoddle, who graciously let us, you know, stay at her house. She. She was just like, hey, Cormac, guess where this guy's from? And I'm like, of course, you know, out of the blue, some. Just some random guy. And. And I was like, I don't know. She's like, he's from St. Petersburg, Florida. I'm like, oh. And then, you know, so we started talking, you know, St. Petersburg and all that other stuff. And I. I even said to him, does San Diego feel like a. A much bigger St. Pete? And he's like, yes, like, all right, I'm vindicated again, sorry to all of the San Diego ins or whatever you call yourselves, but you feel like a big St. Pete. And, and so, like, you know, we. We started talking, you know, we started walking around and stuff. And I tell you, I keep having these weird little things happen, and I'm going to start with this story, and then, you know, hopefully once we get to the very end, if we ever get to the end, if I ever, you know, can get to the end,

[Host]

just so people know, they can pause this podcast and pick it back up later. Right? Like that. That's the beauty of podcasts. Just put the disclaimer in there.

[Cormac]

But this is the start of the story. So, like, we, you know, here we are, we're walking around, and there's this younger, more recently graduated, you know, architect who. She was there, and she took. She was at the convention, and she took the. The. The bus or the train or something like that up to La Jolla, and she was walking around Salk Institute. She was walking around the. The UC San Diego campus. And. And so, you know, she kind of just met up with, you know, we. We just kind of like all of the architects who were, like, walking around the building kind of like started to walk together, you know, so it was like this big kind of like, you know, massive, like, flood of, you know, like a swarm of bees at the building, you know. Black.

[Host]

Black bees. Yes.

[Cormac]

Yes. Well, actually, we were all in. In. We were all in non black. Oh, look at you guys. All of us were non black.

[Host]

Wow. Didn't get the memo.

[Cormac]

Didn't get the memo. So one of. One of our friends had, you know, we had started talking, and we were. We were all introducing ourselves and stuff, and I had my back to. To. To this person, and another one of our friends was like, hey, you know, do you listen to, you know, arc Speak podcast? And she was like, yeah, of course. And with my back towards her, I just said, oh, really? And she was just like, oh, my God, like, recognize the voice. I'm like, that's so weird. It is so weird. It is so weird that people recognize are me by my voice.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And. And so, you know, we just, like, walked around and we talked and stuff. And, like, it was. It was so funny. It was like it was all of these older architects giving this, you know, younger, new architect like, advice on how to take, you know, what to study for the test and how to take the test and, you know, what's important with your career and all of these things. It was like, we were just, like, you know, dumping wisdom on her and whether she wanted it or not, which was just kind of total unsolicited advice and all this other stuff. And, you know, we were walking around to try to get, like, you know, pictures and stuff. And so, like, she was like, you know, if they're going way over there and trespassing, then I guess I can go over there and trespass, you know, teaching her the bad habits of, like, the trespassing architect.

[Host]

Acting like you own the place. Yeah.

[Cormac]

Acting like you own the place and stuff. And. And so, you know, it was. It was fun. You know, it was. As we were walking away, my daughter just looked at him. She's like, two hours we were here looking at a parking garage for two hours.

[Host]

I was just like, rand Elliott's got some pretty cool parking garages.

[Cormac]

Yeah. I was like, you know, I was like, you know what? We could have been here a lot longer if we would have gotten inside. So you're very lucky that we didn't get inside. Right. And she's just like, oh, thank goodness, then. And so we went around and we kind of toured some really nice work on the UC San Diego campus. You know, some. Some. You know, you and I both did, you know, a little bit higher ed. I still do, you know, higher ed.

[Host]

Have a project there. Yeah.

[Cormac]

Do you? Which. Which project do you have?

[Host]

It's the Rady School of Business Management.

[Cormac]

Yeah, I don't call it a very pointy building.

[Host]

It's a very sharp, pointy building.

[Cormac]

Yeah, I remember a sharp, pointy building, but the. The one sharp.

[Host]

The one point right down the middle of the sulks from way up on the hill. Yeah. So, like, what you can actually stand out on, like, the bow of this ship, there's like these balconies that go up on this really sharp edge at the very leading. It's, you know, pointing kind of southwest towards the Salk, and boom, right down. It's pretty cool.

[Cormac]

Can you see the courtyard?

[Host]

You can, you can. Yeah, it's way in there.

[Cormac]

It's way. You could have.

[Host]

Salk is a postage stamp from up there.

[Cormac]

Yeah, yeah. Could have told me this.

[Host]

I'm just giving you to come back.

[Cormac]

No, absolutely. But of course, got to see the Geisel, which was absolutely amazing. I know.

[Host]

What did she think of that?

[Cormac]

She didn't, she didn't make the trek from the parking lot to the.

[Host]

She stayed in the car to stare at her.

[Cormac]

She stayed in the car.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Cormac]

Well, be. Yeah, I'll be nice to her. She, she has actually had a headache.

[Host]

She put up, she put up a lot with.

[Cormac]

Yeah, she, she put up. She, I, I, I think all of us gave her a headache, but she was just like, you know, I, you know, this is, I got, I gotta rest for a little while. I'm like, okay, fair enough. I, My, my body, you know, my body's got one more brutalist building in. In it. So, you know, trekked up the, the

[Host]

campus was always room for another brutalist building.

[Cormac]

Yeah, campus was a little rough to get around on that particular day because it was, it was the commencement. And so, you know, there was all the families there, and I didn't want to get in the way. Get in the way of the families, their celebration of, you know, the achievement of their kids and stuff. And so, although, funny enough, literally everywhere we went, I was anybody and everybody's family photographer. Well, okay, so one of the things is when, you know, you're walking around with your big camera, right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

People see that big camera in your hand, they're like, oh, you know how to take pictures? Could you take a picture of us? You're automatic. So, like, yeah. And so that automatically just, you know, put you into, you know, the, the photographer. And I'm like, sure. And so I took a couple of pictures of a couple of graduates at the Geisel. And, you know, some of the pictures that I was taking, you know, were, you know, obviously all very artsy and all this other stuff, and they were just like, oh, my God, these are amazing. You know, and then what kid said to his dad, he's like, why couldn't you take that picture? Like, you know, like, you know, that quality of picture. I guess I'm just like, dude, Throwing shade on Dad. I know, right? I was just like, dad just paid your way through school, so chill out, kid. You know, seriously, it's in. You know, and like, all the, like, I think it started. Oh, I mean, I hadn't gotten there yet, but, like, when we got, you know, when we left your house, you know, the national park that we went to immediately after we left you, man, like, I went the entire rim of that thing and taking pictures of other people's families for them, you know, and. But it was good because, like, all of them, like, you know, turned out great. I took this one picture of this one family, and, you know, the lady was like, oh, my God, this is, like, worth framing. Like, cool, cool. You know, but so then we started.

[Host]

Here's my Venmo.

[Cormac]

Yeah, Yeah, I should have. But, you know, whatever. So then. Then the plan was, is to basically, once we left the. The conference, which, you know, we can talk about the conference. I mean, we've talked about the conference a lot in the past ones, but, you know, a lot of, like, the great things about the conference are obviously always the networking, the meeting up with your friends and, you know, meeting new people and all that other stuff and extending that beyond that. You know, honestly, there was a lot of complaints that I heard about the keynotes. All of them. I was in two of them. And they aren't quite wrong in their criticisms of the keynotes. They didn't seem to connect well with. With the architecture community even. You know, if you remember when we went to the one, it was Boston, right? The. The. The one that I was sort of complaining about. Why are we, you know, like, we're right. We, you know, we rushed to get to that one. And then I was like, oh, my God, this was like, fantastic that, you know, like, we even had, you know, like, Pete, you know, Buddha juice, Buddha judge at that one.

[Host]

Pete Watson, whatchamacallit, that's his name, Pete.

[Cormac]

What you call it now. Pete definitely, definitely has earned his last name. But anyway, but, you know, so. But none of them really held candle to any of the ones in the past. So it was a little disappointing to. To. For those, you know, that. Who were there for the keynotes, because there's a lot of people who left a lot. I mean, I. I was coming in a little late to the opening one, and there was a lot of people coming out of it. I'm like, over already. I thought it just started in. In the. In the hall was still full Ish, but not like, packed. There was like, you know, at least a. What I felt like was like a couple of thousand people who had already left, and I was just like, damn. Like.

[Host]

So they. The. The. The moral of that is you've got to engage people.

[Cormac]

Yes.

[Host]

ASAP. 30 seconds.

[Cormac]

And it wasn't. And it wasn't. And then the, The. The few that I saw, and I'm gonna just keep them nameless for now, but because I can't remember the whatchamacallit ketos. They. Yeah, the one thing is that one of them, I was like, I realized that I should have left earlier, and then I could have gotten across town to go to the. I don't really know what it's actually called, to be quite honest with you, because I don't expect that I'm ever going to be a part of it. But, you know the ceremony where they elevate.

[Host]

Oh, the fellowship.

[Cormac]

The fellows. Yeah, the fellowships of the ring, of the AIA Ring. But we had, you know, our real good friend Laura Teagarden was elevated to fellow client of ours at Air St. Gross was elevated. And then there was just a few others that I've, you know, had passing, you know, meetings with and stuff that were there. So it was. It was actually pretty. Pretty cool that, you know, in the more recent years, I actually know people who are getting, like, elevated to the College of Fellows, which is. Is totally cool. It's like, oh, my gosh. Like, I. I told Laura, like, ages ago, we were at a. AIA event and she was in D.C. and we're at the national headquarters here. We were talking, and, you know, I said, you know, you're not, like, you're not too far from, you know, getting that f. And she's like, whatever. And I'm just like, no, I was just like, you're going to get your fellowship a lot sooner than you think. And then. And so the first thing that I said when I found out that she got elevated, I told her. I was like, told you. So you know how you never want to be told?

[Host]

The funny thing is, like, she had to work her ass off to do that. Right. It's like. It's like, I think there's this misnomer that you get chosen based on some things you do. No, you work here. You got to do that submittal, and it's ridiculous.

[Cormac]

So, like, the submittal and all of that other stuff, but, you know, all of that you have to do to

[Host]

even get to that point.

[Cormac]

Like, it's. It's the body of work of the influence that you have on the Profession to then. Then wrap it up in a package and show them, hey, look at what I've been doing for the profession is. Is, you know, just incredible in its own.

[Host]

We should give ourselves an F, Cormac. I think we could. We can be farcus speak if we wanted to. Right?

[Cormac]

I think. Yeah, Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, throw an F in front of it. You know, we put Fs on things. That's what. We're architects. We put Fs on things.

[Cormac]

People have told me to F. Anyway, sorry, what?

[Host]

I think that's our style.

[Cormac]

Yeah, that's more our style.

[Host]

But.

[Cormac]

But, yeah, so, I mean, the. The conference itself was. I. I mean, I enjoyed it. I. I don't not enjoy any of the ones that I go to. And. And again, you know, a lot of people ask me why, you know, why we go to them. And, you know, it. It really is about, like, you know, it's about the people it's about and the salk.

[Host]

I mean, it's about the parking garages, so.

[Cormac]

And then the song I heard, next

[Host]

year, it's going to be back in Philly.

[Cormac]

It's gonna be back in Philly. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

Freaking East Coast AIA conferences.

[Cormac]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

I guess I could have gone to the west coast one. I shouldn't complain.

[Cormac]

Exactly. You could. I mean, it was there.

[Host]

I could have been in my time zone.

[Cormac]

You absolutely could have been. So. So piss off.

[Host]

Okay, so here's the thing that happened this time that I missed out on. My alma mater had an alumni meeting for, like, the first time ever. Maybe.

[Cormac]

You did. Yours did. Yeah.

[Host]

In fact, I missed that. And not only did I miss it, I didn't even know it was happening because no one ever emailed me. And I'm not hard to find. I don't get it.

[Cormac]

Yeah, I was just like, you know, I mean, you know, Evan just kind of dropped off the face of the Evan go. I don't. You know, no one knows where to find you. So. Yeah. In fact, we are a very.

[Host]

What's the word? Disorganized group of people.

[Cormac]

I think I met a couple of Cal Poly Pomonas.

[Host]

I'm sure you have.

[Cormac]

Above and beyond you. Although I will say that one of the things that made me feel a bit special is that I had a couple of, you know, good meetups with some of our friends. Your. Your. Your friend. Your. Your birthday friend.

[Host]

Oh, nice. Nice. I didn't get to hear about that.

[Cormac]

Yeah, I know. Brett came down and hung out with me for a little while.

[Host]

Cool.

[Cormac]

And got to meet up with a couple of the. It's so funny is like every time I'm on the. The west coast, it seems like I meet up with that, you know, the, that a group of people from your old, you know, your old firm.

[Host]

Right.

[Cormac]

And, and so like, you know, we got. Yeah. Like, so we, we met up and, and chatted and all that other stuff and hung out for a little while and so that's always cool. So again, those are like, you know, my, you know, some of my favorite things about that. Got a chance to like walk the floor and, you know, see everything and see everybody that I wanted to see. I. Other than the most heard thing that I was like, where's Evan? You know, which was like what I heard most of the times. Where's Evan? I'm like, I'm just doing this one solo. I had to answer for you so many times.

[Host]

I guess so. Geez, you're a default. The default answer.

[Cormac]

Yeah. And so, but it was cool. And, and remember the little coffee cup that Anderson Windows gave out last year? This year they gave out another one, but it was orange.

[Host]

And so I missed out on that. You got, you got an even better version of the insulated espresso mug.

[Cormac]

Yes. Even better than yours. And where is it?

[Host]

I want to see it.

[Cormac]

I wasn't going to share it with you. Yeah. It's actually just out of camera, so. But yeah.

[Host]

All right.

[Cormac]

I wasn't going to. I was definitely. I was going to take yours this time because I gave you mine last year.

[Host]

Right.

[Cormac]

But then, you know, so then it was the slow roll up to basically go to your house, but the slow roll was through, you know, like. Right.

[Host]

It's a short drive from San Diego to here. It's not that far. Why just one state?

[Cormac]

Why is it does the west coast and the states west of the Mississippi feel it absolutely necessary to be so God awfully big? There's no.

[Host]

Was it you who said if you look at the map of the US it would look like we actually settled originally on the west coast and worked east or I was at somebody else. Like, the idea of the way the land has been divided up is. Is.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

Very odd.

[Cormac]

It is. And you know, I, I think, I think at a point they just like kind of gave up whatever. It's. Yeah, yeah. What do you, you know, how much land do you want?

[Host]

You could tell their attention was waning. Yeah.

[Cormac]

I think somebody, somebody had to have been pissed off at Idaho because of the way that they shaped it, you know, because you know, there's like, the little panhandle up at the top, and then it kind of like, you know,

[Host]

top of the boat.

[Cormac]

Yeah, exactly. It's just like, somebody must not have liked them. But, like, I. I saw this map, and it was. It was a political map, and they were talking about, like, alignments and all this other stuff, and they were just like, you know, look at all of the, you know, this. And they. You. You claim that this state is. Is that political affiliation, and it happened to be about Oregon, and it showed, you know, one political affiliation, you know, dominating pretty much, you know, actually just west of you, because your area was one political affiliate. But then all the way to the border, and they're just like, well, look at that. And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, look at that. Have you driven from your area to the eastern border? There's nothing there. There's nothing there.

[Host]

Yeah, quite recently.

[Cormac]

I mean, there's beautiful. Yeah, I was gonna say beautiful scenery, but nothing there, like, kind of.

[Host]

Yeah, it depends.

[Cormac]

There was a lot of, like, these really weird encampments of these. Of what I was kind of calling the. The. The modern day kind of like, you know, wagon circle, you know, like, you know, like, you know. You know what I'm talking about. Like, you know, so it's just like the. These people who've got, like, all of these, like, RVs, like, pulled way off into, like, you know, the high desert, and they're just like, park them in a circle, and you. You can tell that the RV's been there for, you know, a year or two or more, More and more. And they slowly improving it into kind of like a, like, very rustic camp. But there's, like, they dot the landscape all over the place, and it's just like.

[Host]

Yeah, it's.

[Cormac]

I was like, is that the demographic

[Host]

they're talking about is, like, still kind of Wild West?

[Cormac]

It is very wild west, yeah.

[Host]

As soon as you get east of the Cascades, which is like, we're at the. We're at the bottom of the Cascades, you know, which go all the way up through Washington and stuff, man. Yeah, it is. It's high desert. So.

[Cormac]

Yeah. Yeah. So we, you know, once we made it all the way through California, now got a chance to see a friend of ours in Huntington Beach. But then, you know, kind of like just slowly moved up. And again, it was one of those things that as we were driving north from the. From San Diego, leaving the conference, every architectural thing that I wanted to see, that I wanted to tour, had absolutely you know, had been closed, you know, for tours and all this other stuff. And like, you know, I wanted, like, the last time I drove the Highway 1. Is that what it's called, the Pacific Coast Highway? Yes. The last time I drove that, you know, I wanted to see. I wanted to see the Hearst Castle, but, you know, didn't get a chance to. To see that then because it was closed at the time. And then didn't get a chance to see it this time because it was closed again. Oh, I'm like, man, yeah, it's a

[Host]

cool thing to see, for sure.

[Cormac]

Yeah. So one of these days I'll actually get to see it because there's plenty of things to see. Did not. Did not even bother trying to drive through la. Just drove around it. Did not drive through it. Kind of wanted to see. Kind of wanted to see lacma though. I did. I did want to see that. There are a few. It is finally open.

[Host]

Is the George Lucas Museum open, whatever that's called?

[Cormac]

It is not open. It is not open yet. It's open soon, but the exterior is finished.

[Host]

Okay.

[Cormac]

And so, you know, I could have at least. But I. I do want to see that one too. So maybe next time.

[Host]

There's so many other cool things to see in LA too, like, yeah, the

[Cormac]

Getty, you know, get up to the concert hall.

[Host]

There is stuff downtown.

[Cormac]

Oh, absolutely. Abroad and want to go back because. Because I've never. I've always wanted to tour. Why am I blanking on the green and greenhouse?

[Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In Pasadena.

[Cormac]

Yes. But I have only been, you know, on the outside of that one looking in a couple of times and wanted to see that one. But did. Did get a chance to go by and see the Frank Geary house?

[Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did. What did Maggie think of that?

[Cormac]

Oh my gosh. She was just like, really? So what am I looking at? Like, Exactly. That's exactly what you see.

[Host]

More questions?

[Cormac]

Yeah, like it is not for you. And she was just like. So she just kept looking at me like, you know, oh, look, you know, let me. I kept doing U turns in the thing and so people kept like, wondering what the hell I was doing because it kept like, you know, driving and then like taking some shots and then doing a U turn in this middle of the street and then taking more shots and stuff and. And she was just.

[Host]

You didn't feel safe to get out and go walk over there.

[Cormac]

I mean, you know, this is Malibu. Some rough.

[Host]

Is that Brentwood? Where is that?

[Cormac]

Yeah, that's Malibu.

[Host]

It's in Malibu. Okay.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

And, you know, but then got to see a couple of other, like, you know, a couple of other things in. In that area that he did, like, early. Early in his career that I was familiar with. So, you know, got to see a few things. And again, she looked at me like, really? This is what you like? She's like, give me a. You know, give me some more, you know, give me some symmetry. Damn it.

[Host]

She wanted some eye candy.

[Cormac]

That's what she wanted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, architecture has depth.

[Host]

Let me tell. I need to have a serious conversation with your daughter. It's not just all on the surface.

[Cormac]

You do. You do. You. You need to. Because apparently it's not getting through to her.

[Host]

Well, she does.

[Cormac]

She.

[Host]

Yeah. You could talk about it for a hundred years and she wouldn't listen. I can't. You know, somebody else maybe.

[Cormac]

Maybe this is what she does to me every time, you know, I talk about her. She spent the whole time I was walking around the Salk Institute texting her mom, saying, I don't know what your husband is doing, but, you know, he's sitting there, you know, weirdly, like, holding some kind of court, like, talking about this stupid building.

[Host]

Your wife is like, yep, that was me. Me last summer. I was. That. I was you last summer.

[Cormac]

But see, you know, because you were there, you know, in a couple of those. That she actually appreciates that stuff, though, a little bit differently. She's either just said, well, your wife is more mature.

[Host]

Yes.

[Cormac]

She. She's probably at the point. It's just like, it. It's gonna happen regardless. So just let him, you know, let him just do whatever.

[Host]

Let him enjoy his thing.

[Cormac]

Yeah, please. She's actually found out that, like, if I'm driving down the road, I'm like, oh, good. That, you know, and, you know, like, almost steering off the road because I'm, like, staring at something. She's like, I. I know. I automatically know it's not. You're not like, checking out some, like, you know, woman or something. She's like, you're checking out a building or a car. Like, yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Host]

She's got your number.

[Cormac]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, as we started to kind of, like, head west, you know, you told us that we should see Crater Lake because we had already seen a crater down in Arizona.

[Host]

That's right. Yeah. You can see a nicer looking crater if you're. If you're out collecting craters.

[Cormac]

If you're out looking at Craters for just any random reason why you just said, you know, hey, I want to look at a hole in the ground. Yeah, there is the hole in the ground in Arizona, which is a meteor crater.

[Host]

Yeah. I was going to say they were formed in different ways.

[Cormac]

In different ways. Or you can go to Crater Lake, which is a volcanic crater, and. Oh, my Lord, that place is amazing, isn't it?

[Host]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Cormac]

Yeah. And then we were, you know, after we did that, you know, we're driving through the high desert and all of this other stuff, you know, we get into Idaho forever. Forever, forever. And again. Again, understand, we rarely took the interstate. We were driving back roads the whole time. But, you know, here we are tooling around 70, 80 miles an hour, you know, in the high desert and stuff, you know, taking all these pictures. You know where it's going, right?

[Host]

Yes.

[Cormac]

Because you already know this story. So we. So when we got to. When we got to our hotel for the night after, you know, going to Crater Lake, we try to drive because we. We had, like, certain destinations that we wanted to go to. Like, you know, hey, next thing, you know, next stop we want to go to is we want to try to get within two days from Crater Lake. We want to try to get to, you know, see what we can stop where we can and, you know, experience a few things. But, you know, ultimate goal is within two days, we'd like to try to get to, like, say, Yellowstone or whatever. And so that was like the, The. The. The next stop was. Was Yellowstone and Old Faithful. And so when we stopped, we were, you know, we kind of, like, collected all of our stuff. And normally I'm putting all of my things, you know, in just, like a little small bag and taking it in for that. Normally I bring in my, you know, bring in my computer, bring in my iPad, bring in my, you know, camera and phone and all that other stuff. Make sure I've got all that stuff right. And so, you know, for some reason, I couldn't. Didn't see my. My iPad. Not a big deal. You know, it's got to be in the truck somewhere. You know, lock it up. We're. We're cool. This is, you know, doesn't seem like a very bad place. So let me just go ahead and, you know, just. So we. We do that. Not a big deal. We get up, have breakfast, you know, we start, you know, our drive really, really windy outside. You know, as, you know, it's really windy out west and really, really windy outside. Hit the interstate because this is the only time that we, you know, like, between Idaho and Montana, Wyoming areas, you know, was the only time that we actually really took the interstate until we got, you know, like in the home stretch and then something like, hits the truck. And, you know, I see something like fly in the background and I'm like, you know, what the hell is that? You know, I kind of pull off to the side of the road and I'm like, looking, I'm like, you know, did I hit something? I didn't kick something up, you know, from the inner. From the, from the highway. Did it like, you know, hit the, you know, the truck? Do I got like a little dent or did it run something over? Nothing. Everything looks fine and all that other stuff. So I get back in the truck and we start to drive away, and I've got notification that popped up that said, you know, you're disconnected from your iPad. I'm like, wait, what? Oh, my God. That was the iPad that flew off.

[Host]

That had been on the car for how long now? So sitting on top of the car,

[Cormac]

when I was packing up to leave your house, I apparently set my iPad up on the roof and completely forgot it was there, you know, because that. Because we were like, pulling stuff out and we were putting stuff back in and we were rearranging everything. So, like, and I. One of these weird people who, like, I need to see out, you know, like, I use all my mirrors, so I, you know, don't want anything like, blocking and obscuring the rear view mirror. So I got everything's like, all in order and everything else. So just a little insight if you ever travel with me, that, you know, I like to keep a nice, tidy car when I'm on the road. And so, like, you know, did all of that completely just blanked on the fact that I set it up on the roof. And so literally, for 545 miles, that thing stayed mag. You know, magnetized to the roof of the truck until at the very, you know, last go round, you know, somewhere east of Boise, Idaho, it decided that the, you know, like, maybe because of

[Host]

the wind, the forces were just too much.

[Cormac]

Forces were just too much. And it let go. It stayed on the roof again for 545 miles. I charted it because I charted my whole thing just to make sure, like, you know, find my phone. And I put in, you know, everything and all that other stuff. Now, it doesn't necessarily include the loops around Crater Lake, so it could have actually been a little bit longer, maybe 600 miles. But. But, you know, from where it was last seen, because I found the. I found the actual case with some glass in it, but I could not find the iPad itself, but I found at least the case. So I know exactly where the last, you know, its last resting space was. And then I charted that back my route to Crater Lake and then Crater Lake to your house. 545 miles. It was absolutely insane that it hung on the roof that long. Now.

[Host]

It was. It really wanted to get found and it just didn't wait any longer.

[Cormac]

Yeah. So I got a new one.

[Host]

And the case. The case is probably to. To, you know, like, that's the thing that kept it on the roof. Right. Because that's where the magnets actually. I mean, there's magnets in the.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

In the iPad, too. But I think it's the case that

[Cormac]

actually it was the. It was the. It was the case. And so this one has got ones where. So like, I've stuck this to the refrigerator and it's, you know, stays on there and stuff. So, like, I've got high hopes that the next time I forget a iPad on the roof, that it's going to hold on.

[Host]

Oh, well, pour one out. Cormac's iPad.

[Cormac]

Pour one out for old Cormax iPad. So by the time I got home, the new one was sitting there. I called up because it. Well, no, I mean, it was one that I, you know, purchased through Xfinity Mobile. And so, you know, I basically, I called them up and said, you know, hey, I want to, you know, turn the service off because, like, I don't have the iPad anymore. Like, blew it up. Yeah, yeah, it's just like. I was just like, it is lost. It will never be found because it is in, you know, probably a million pieces, you know, so, you know, I know. I know where it's lost and it's. It's lost to never, you know, surface again. Because it was just like, you know, oh, do you want to report it stolen or missing? But no, no, yeah, I don't want to report it. Stupid. Because I was stupid. Left it up. Yeah. So, you know, and. And so they're like, oh, you know, you have like, you know, the insurance on it. We can just replace it for you. Like, oh, cool, let's do that. You know, I mean, it's 15amonth for the. The data plan. So I have that. And I use it so much. I use it, you know, in school when I'm teaching and stuff. I use it at work. I use it for, you know, personal. We just Had a power outage for the last four days, you know, during the fourth of July holiday, and it came in handy.

[Host]

So I remember when you didn't have one, you were always asking, should I get one? Should I get one of these? Should I do. When you finally did, you were just

[Cormac]

like, oh, yeah, now I know why you kept saying I should get one of these.

[Host]

Kind of cool.

[Cormac]

And now I don't think that you use yours that much anymore.

[Host]

It's sitting. It's sitting right here to my right. And yeah, I don't use it a lot.

[Cormac]

Yeah. So maybe it's just I actually have

[Host]

an iPad mini that I actually use quite often.

[Cormac]

Okay. Yeah, no, it's definitely something like, you know, because like, when I'm trying to show somebody some, you know, like, precedence example or something like that, you know, it's a lot easier to show them on an iPad with a bigger screen than it is with my phone. So, you know, like, for sure. So I, you know, so. Took me a while to finally listen to you, but I think I did. But, you know, so then any other

[Host]

highlights after that after the great iPad incident?

[Cormac]

So, you know, hit a couple more. Hit a couple of more national parks completely blown away by the Tetons. Like, was completely amazed by those. But then, you know, so as we, like, you know, barrel home, because I think, you know, she was starting to miss the dog and, you know, we just wanted to, you know, it's a long trip. It's a long trip wear on you if you're not, like, really breaking it up and everybody's not there and all this other stuff to do, other things and stuff starts to wear on you. So learn my lesson from the last trip that, you know, it's just like, all right, when you start to feel like it's time to, you know, head home, you just start heading home. So we didn't shortchange anything. We still did a couple of stops. I got to see another one of Louis Sullivan's bank buildings because I'll get to see all of them in the not too distant future. Just because I want to see all of the different jewel boxes from. Or the. Yeah, I guess that's what they call them, the jewel boxes of all of his bank buildings. But then realized that wasn't too far away from the John Deere headquarters. So I had to go. Had to go to the John Deere's head John Deere headquarters. And. And that was like the last architectural stop. And it's another one of those you like. Damn. Like, you Know, you saw that in the slideshow. You saw, you know, like the bucket list was made with things like that when you were, you know, in architecture.

[Host]

The formative years.

[Cormac]

Yeah, the formative years when you were like Lear about all of these things and you're just like, I mean, the, the level of precision and detail of, you know, all of these different projects and things. And you look at it and I will say this, and, and you can attest to this because you were there, but I can attest to the fact that Iowa is definitely a architecture rich state. That.

[Host]

Yep.

[Cormac]

Is definitely worth exploring more and more.

[Host]

And I know that. I just went over to your Instagram, Cormac. I don't see any John Deere headquarters. You better get some. Some stuff posted.

[Cormac]

Geez, I did do just Slacker. No, man, how would I. How did I miss that one? Okay, well, I guess I gotta figure that one out.

[Host]

Better. Better do this. Better get on that. I want to see it to your eyes, Cormac. Yes.

[Cormac]

Wait a minute. All right.

[Host]

Real time, real time updates.

[Cormac]

Eli, it's here.

[Host]

It is.

[Cormac]

What is this? It is the one that when you look at the picture of, it starts with welcome to Iowa. It's in that series. So you get to see.

[Host]

Oh, oh, I didn't know that these were a series. Okay. I was just looking at the grid.

[Cormac]

Okay, okay, I got you. No, they're, they're series and so. And just, you know, the Corten steel, the. Just like, you know, everything about it, it's like, it's amazing. The jewel box from Louis Sullivan. You know, even I'm gonna tell you guys, Iowa, like some of their rest stops. There's some pretty, like, you know, like, they're like, okay, you know, I mean, Iowa. He said, like, if you're gonna rest here, let's at least give you a nice place to rest. Exterior, wise, interior wise of some of those. Like, okay, you spent a little bit of money at least in here. And yes, I know John Deere is not in Iowa per se. It is just over the border in Illinois, but in Molina. But still it's, you know, part of that whole, like, you know, kind of pagan Iowa is definitely not something that you should shrug your shoulders at and say, what's in Iowa?

[Host]

Correct.

[Cormac]

There is a lot of stuff in Iowa.

[Host]

Correct, yes.

[Cormac]

So, yeah, that was a very, very long trip. And then immediately after I got back, I had to get back to work and start. Start back at the. The, you know, going back and doing some punching for building and all of this. Other stuff. I want to kind of, like, close with this one because, you know, I sort of told you I might. So when I got back, it happened to be like, baltimore does this thing. And again, you know, kind of check out the Instagram. But Baltimore does this really cool thing where they have, like, these big, tall clipper ships and everything else, you know, like these old, you know, sailing vessels come in and they fill up the inner harbor, and it's this big festival, you know, and it was just, you know, some amazing, like, boats from all over the world. Spain, Italy, you know, Argentina. They were all, like, docked right outside of our office. And then there was, you know, a bunch of other ones. So I get on the water taxi to go from where I was staying to the office, and as I'm coming across, you know, there's only three people on the water taxi. Some guy who happened to be wearing a rugby shirt. So I was going to ask him about that, and then this. This other guy. And this other guy was kind of, like, walking next to me as we were getting off of the dock and, you know, kind of walking someone in the same direction. And he. He asked. He was. He. Look. Looks over at me. He's like, you know, is this something that's. He's from the west coast, and he's, you know, happened to be in. In Baltimore for something. He was just like, you know, hey, is this, you know, is this normal? You know, does. Does Baltimore do this all the time? And so I was just like, yeah. I mean, it was like, every year, you know, Baltimore has this, you know, this big festival where the big ships come in and all this other stuff, and it's, you know, it's really amazing. And I kind of, you know, talked a little bit more about, you know, some of the stuff that you can see while you're. While you're there. Kind of sounded like I was the, you know, Baltimore tourism. And he was just like, I know your voice. He goes, you have a podcast. It's the Arcus Speak podcast, right? I'm like, yeah. And he was just like, you know,

[Host]

that's like, I'm not weirded out right now.

[Cormac]

Yeah, it was just like, that's kind of cool. It was. No, it was just. It was another one. He's just like. So I, like, again, it's this kind of weird thing. It's like, oh, yeah. You know, I've been doing this for so long. I guess my voice is somewhat recognizable for people to listen to, but it's just weird that people recognize, like, he

[Host]

was listening is super random. That one was like, this one in particular is super, super random.

[Cormac]

It was, it was just like. And he was a, you know, he was a structural engineer. He left structural engineering and now he's in, you know, computer coding and all the other stuff, which is somewhat adjacent, which. So I was gonna, you know, I told him that he needs to be listening to your. To the Troxel podcast as well, you know, for. For some of the same things. But it was just. It was so weird. It's just like, I don't know how many times I'm gonna hear and get used to or not get used to the fact that people can recognize my voice.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Cormac]

So I just wanted to. Just wanted to close with that podcast Famous. Just wanted to close with that. That somebody recognized, you know, another person had recognized me because of my voice.

[Host]

Wow, that's. That's a lesson for you people out there. Just do a podcast for 14 years

[Cormac]

and then somebody will notice.

[Host]

Good job. Well, I'm glad you stopped by on your way on your long, busy trip.

[Cormac]

It was. It was not long enough. So it is definitely something that is going to have to happen again. Except for this time I can ditch the daughter and bring the wife.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, the. It was cool. It's great to have you and. And to have. I mean, your daughter too, right? You mean you both. Yeah, it was, it was a way to kind of take a load off and.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, get to hang out for a little bit.

[Cormac]

Yeah. And then see the Troxel homestead, which is amazing. I even got to see the, the thickets of poison oak that you suffer with every single year since you bought the thing.

[Host]

I probably have poison oak right now.

[Cormac]

Yeah, you probably do.

[Host]

It's almost BlackBerry season. It's. It's about here. So you missed out a little bit. We've got loads and loads, but I'm

[Cormac]

sure you're probably going to like, you know, traipse in there to try to get them and then kids get with milk because.

[Host]

Yeah, there's some. There are some intertwining going on there for sure.

[Cormac]

And I am intermingling. I am still waiting for someone to share a chocolate sesame. Is it.

[Host]

Oh, the recipe. Okay. So, yeah, the story here, people, is that Cormac, my wife, made these cookies with black sesame seeds. So these, these look like they're literally like dark black cookies. It's not like. It's not an appetizing looking cookie. Right. So. So my wife offers one to Cormac and Cormac's like, oh, it's black, like my soul. Yes, I want one. Right? And so I told her that you asked about the recipe, and she's like, oh, he'll never make these. She told me the process, so I'll explain the process at some point to you because it's.

[Cormac]

They sort of look like this. Like, here's a lid cap like that.

[Host]

Like, dark black. Black sesame seeds are the main ingredient because longevity. But yeah, she's like, oh, he'll never make these. Because the process, it sounds very involved. It's like it takes, like, five days to make these cookies. Oh, geez.

[Cormac]

She might be right. She might be right. Yeah, I made it. Just have to come back out there and get more.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, you got it. That's a good reason to visit.

[Cormac]

There you go.

[Host]

All right. I think we should call this one. This was Cormac's epic 2026 road trip. 6,800. What was the number of miles?

[Cormac]

6,783.3. But no, he's.

[Host]

6,800 miles. I'm rounding. Rounding up, just like Han Solo did with the. What was that? The Kestrel run?

[Cormac]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah. So. All right. Until next time.

[Cormac]

And so when. And. And so if you guys, you know, trips on over to the old thing, you can see the full route and the Instagrams and you can follow along with the thing. And I actually even got for a Jeep Grand Cherokee some reasonably decent miles per gallon, which is not anything that you normally say with, you know, any of the Jeep products. True, true.

[Host]

The cheap products.

[Cormac]

Now, yeah. Now, granted, you'll say you only got 24.4 miles per gallon average across your whole entire trip, but think about this. I was driving through the mountains a lot, you know, and so that, like, you know, wreaks habit.

[Host]

Cormic. Cormac. This only. This only matters to you. Nobody cares. Only matters pure gas mileage.

[Cormac]

But they do when they keep. You know, when you look at the gas prices in old California.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh. The gas prices. Yeah. Yeah. I don't.

[Cormac]

The most that I spent for a tank of gas was 133.31.

[Host]

What was that? What was the per gallon? Like six something.

[Cormac]

Then I just. It must have been.

[Host]

It hurt.

[Cormac]

Just. It just hurt my soul to even see that. So I was like, you know, no. God, it was.

[Host]

Had to be almost seven bucks a gallon, as my guess.

[Cormac]

Yeah, it was. It was ridiculous. It was. It was really ridiculous. And it was just like, jeez, it was close to seven bucks.

[Host]

Yeah. Ouch.

[Cormac]

Yeah.

[Host]

All right.

[Cormac]

Yep.

[Host]

Well, until next time, more adventures.

[Cormac]

Well, thank you very much.

[Host]

Thanks for listening, everybody. See you in the next one.