B (3:48)

So Mabel it is strange to have gotten this far just on a hate listen.

A (3:53)

I don't know. I've seen a lot. A lot of bad reality tv. Not bad reality tv, but, like, I shouldn't watch Top Chef. Like, it's not good, but, like, it's just addictive. Like, Great British Baking show is good. Like, that's fun. Like, Sorry. Anyway, this is completely unrelated. Tell me more about Mabel.

B (4:21)

Mabel is. It's a horror podcast about. I always pick the ones that are hard to describe in a couple of sentences. It's about a woman who is taking care of an old lady in a very weird house, and very strange things start happening. It's a lyrical, poetic podcast. It does weird audio stuff as well. So if that's what you're into, it does that too. And it has a strange narrative timeline. So if that's also a thing that you're into, you're all listening to Archive 81, so I'm naming things that I know exist in this podcast. Mabel has that. Mabel's excellent. It's a really wonderful production. And their next season is coming out this month.

A (5:14)

Ooh, fun. Very, very cool. Hopefully you do weird audio sounds, because that's, like, three quarters of Archive, anyone? Anyway, so what is another show that you're really excited about that should get more attention than it already has?

B (5:35)

Point Mystic.

A (5:36)

Point Mystic.

B (5:38)

Point Mystic. Point Mystic's second season is coming out this Halloween.

A (5:42)

Ooh, spooky. Duh. Ghosts, Goblins. I'll put in monster mash later if I care enough. I won't put in monster mash.

B (5:55)

Oh, yeah. Point mystic is a magical realism podcast that edges on the lines of, like, pretty kind of spooky horror. It's about this town called Point mystic and the. The rate one of the radio shows from this town that investigates all of the weird things that are happening in it. Yeah. And it touches on a lot of subjects like colonialism and racism, as well as, like, what it means to be a community.

A (6:27)

Mm. Where is Point mystic, btdubs?

B (6:31)

Like, that's. That's part of the question.

A (6:34)

Where is Point Mystic? Okay, cool, cool. It's not a small New England whaling village in Maine, because that's where all horror is set.

B (6:46)

No.

A (6:46)

Okay, to be fair, whales are really creepy and scary.

B (6:50)

Yeah, we didn't learn that in Archive 81 at all.

A (6:53)

Yeah. No. So what are some shows that. If not shows that you're excited about that are starting or continuing? What are some shows that, when you see them on your podcaster, it goes directly to the top of Your listen pile or listen.

B (7:11)

I'm gonna have to say it's probably love and luck.

A (7:14)

Cool. Cool. What's love and luck about?

B (7:18)

Love and Luck is a. It's a queer romance podcast. It's about these two men who fall in love over voicemail, and then together they start building a really inclusive, wonderful queer community together. It's in. Set in Australia, recorded in Australia, and it's a really wonderful podcast if you just need to be happy about something. Yeah, cool.

A (7:54)

Cool. I'm sure nobody listening to this needs to be happy about something because they're listening to Archive 81. Yeah.

B (8:02)

Who needs happiness?

A (8:04)

Yeah, no, it's. We're sorry about all the things that we've done in the previous seasons.

B (8:12)

You are not sorry.

A (8:13)

No, no, I'm not. Hey, Melody's happy. That's. That's one character. One character. Just one Hope. Hope Dan stops being a weird, terrible mutant creation with a tape recorder stuck in his heart. But who knows? You'll have to listen to the season finale to find out. So, moving broader than just shows that you like and listen to, can you tell me a little bit about the audio drama landscape? What do you think is missing? Do you think there's anything missing? Or alternatively, are there things that you're really, really passionate about and really find joy in so you can talk shit about people if you'd like? We're fin. Lauren Shippen can. I don't know. No. Lauren is the nicest person.

B (9:14)

Lauren is so nice, y'.

A (9:16)

All. She's so nice.

B (9:17)

And in fact, since we're talking about Lauren Shippen and therefore the Bright sessions, I am. I'm gonna talk about. We have a sudden influx of audio fiction about superheroes specifically. Also superheroes that are sort of. That are younger, more. A little bit more young adult.

A (9:37)

Mm.

B (9:38)

Then, like, adult comic book intense DC Universe grit. No apologies to DC Universe. We've got, you know, so the start of Bright sessions, right? We've got the superhero hero, superheroes in therapy. Red Wing is not young adult. It's definitely adult, but it's beautifully diverse and really imaginative in what the universe could be like. And then recently we had coming out things like Red Rhino, which is a podcast about a young boy who gets not great superpowers. Superordinary, which is a podcast about a girl who gets superpowers that are triggered by her anxiety. And the Van, which is this, like, really strange, like, atmosphere podcast about a group of kids with superpowers who are being shepherded by someone who is not great.

A (10:43)

So is there Anything you think is missing? Anything that you're not so excited about? Or should we just stay positive? Stay posy, as the kids say.

B (10:55)

I always want to. Kids do not stay. Stay posy.

A (10:59)

I. I have hung out with teenagers for a long time, and I did not intend for that to sound so creepy. No, I've been on Snapchat. I know. They always say stay pausey, and then they do it for the gram, and then they dab. And then they do that thing where they flip a water bottle and it lands there. I have seen both seasons of American Vandal, so I know. I know what the kids are into. Yes.

B (11:28)

Fully up on the lingo.

A (11:30)

Yes. Hip to the kids chats. Anyway, how do you do, fellow kids and all that? Sorry I interrupted you with my very, very, very dumb jokes.

B (11:41)

It's fine. I like your dumb jokes. So, yeah, I always think that we should stay positive, but staying positive doesn't mean having blinders on, right? It doesn't mean that we ignore the areas where we need to work on stuff. So on September 30, I gave a talk for International Podcast Day where I talked about audio fiction as a. As a diverse space. And I really do think that we're seeing a lot of diversity in creators, actors, voices, themes that we're discussing. But I think that we need to do better. And I'm not saying that the people who think that they could write one, who could provide diversity. I'm doing air quotes there. I don't know if you could hear that in my voice a little bit. Need to. Right. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the people who are already involved in the community need to make sure that we're making this, like, a safe, welcoming place for creators of color, trans creators and trans voices, disabled people with disabilities, things like that, because I think we are lacking like this. This core demographic of the marginalized and oppressed who definitely wouldn't be able to get. Get a platform anywhere else because of major gatekeeping, which podcasting doesn't have. You don't need someone's approval to publish a pod.

A (13:15)

Yeah, I mean, I would say that there. I would hesitate to say that there aren't. There's no gatekeeping.

B (13:21)

Oh, no, not no gatekeeping, definitely.

A (13:24)

Just because.

B (13:24)

Yeah, sorry.

A (13:26)

Like, one of the things that I find interesting is that a lot of people say that podcasting is super easy to get into and, like, you don't need a lot of resources. And I find that that is wrong. I think, personally, just because, like, you need microphones you need like, your laptop recorder is not gonna cut it. Like, it just isn't. I mean, I'm sure you could find an interesting workaround, but like, you need editing software. Hindenburg is pretty cheap and pretty good reaper the same thing. And there are a bunch of resources where you can learn how to edit and stuff. Transom.org is one that I steer everybody towards, but it takes a lot of time and not everybody has, that's, that's an actual resource because people could be getting money and not everybody has the, you know, time to do a second full time job if there have a job. And also, like, you need money to pay actors and to pay graphic designers and to pay for website hostings. And like, I don't think that paying your actors is a negotiable cost. Like, I personally find it horrifying when people talk about not paying actors. That's genuinely awful and shitty. And if you do that, you're a kind of a bad person. I, I'm, I'm probably being pretty judgmental, but I think that that's kind of, that's deeply shitty to not pay people for their art. This has been a long rant and I might cut it out just because I'm talking shit, but yeah, there.

B (15:22)

Well, it's one that I agree with. I mean, I, when I say that pod, when I was talking about gatekeeping, I'm not saying that podcasting doesn't have gatekeeping. It definitely does. It has a financial burden. It has, it has like an energy burden just like any other creative space. Those burdens are certainly, I think, diminished than they would be in other places. Oh yeah, I think, I think that, you know, it's less expensive to buy a microphone than it is to buy a decent video camera. Right. So it's a question of like, balance. Right. Of finding. Well, I can't record with visuals this story that I want to tell, but I have the, like, you know, I can find the 50 bucks to spring for a microphone.

A (16:11)

Right, right. And I think that like, the, the thing is like, when people ask Dan and I like, how to get started in podcasts and we get that email a fair amount, like, the thing we usually tell them is that it's really tough and it's a lot of work and it's really tough and it's a lot of work and just repeat at infinitum and it's, it requires a lot of knowledge about sound to do it well because, like, the barriers to making a very shitty podcast are very, very low. The barriers to making a good one are higher. Aside from all the podcasts that are mentioned here, if someone listens to Archive 81 and is trying to find a new podcast to listen to, what should they check out? How should they go about that?

B (17:10)

Okay, so my first recommendation for this thing for anyone is to check out two different Twitter hashtags. The first one I'm sure they'll be familiar with is Audio Drama Sunday, which you and Dan started a while ago. But then the other tag that they should check out is Audio Fiction Love, which I started.

A (17:30)

Oh, good. So which one is better? Would you say the one I started or the one you started? Cause I'm really proud of the one I started. And like the one you started, I'm.

B (17:40)

Super proud of the one that you started.

A (17:42)

Aww.

B (17:43)

I think that Audio Drama Sunday that tag has, there's a lot more backlog in it, right? Because it's older, It's a way more established tag. Audio Fiction Love. I started recently as like a way to make sure that we are uplifting our fellow creators and telling them that we love them. And not just creators, right? Or like writers or anything, but also like actors, musicians, artists that do all of this work that we need to be paying them for. But also it's good to recognize them. So if you're also looking for something, like, I want to know what else this particular composer has worked on in audio fiction, you can see if they're mentioned in the Audio Fiction Love tag.

A (18:25)

That is very cool. And I was just joking about, like me, I know you not being proud. I'm sorry, my ha ha, I'm a jerk is not always funny. Anyway, it's great.

B (18:41)

Listen, my other answer was going to be, well, I can take the fight outside if you want.

A (18:45)

Oh, good. I think we live on opposite coasts. Like, oh yeah, no, I'm going to go on a plane, go to o', Hare, I'll meet you there, we'll say hi and then we will fight. Like, it's going to be. We're going to spend literally hundreds of dollars on plane tickets just to go somewhere and fight. It's going to be totally a good use of money, not toxic masculinity at all. Like, I'm going to be red faced. It's going to be. It's going to be great. I'm going to look very, very mature when I do this. That's the thing. People are going to be like, wow, that guy is an adult and is handling his, you know, deep seated emotions and repressed issues very well. Ye. So that was a long, very, very, very, very dumb joke. Let's get back to. So are there websites that people can check out if they are intentionally avoiding Twitter because it's a awful hellscape where terrible, terrible things happen and people get stressed just looking at it and still open it Because.

B (19:59)

Because it's an Eric reflex.

A (20:01)

Because it's the thing you do at the beginning of the day to feel something, anything at all, I guess. Maybe.

B (20:08)

Oh, man. Yeah. So I cover audio fiction over at the Bello Collective. So if you want to check out podcast reviews and lists over there, I cover every single month at the Bella Collective. I do an audio drama debut roundup. So that means audio dramas that debuted the previous month. I select some, I put them in a list, I tell you what they're about, and the first episodes get embedded in the list.

A (20:38)

Awesome.

B (20:39)

So that's a cool way to find out. New podcasts.

A (20:42)

Any newsletters they should subscribe to other than yours?

B (20:51)

Gavin Gaddis has a great newsletter. You can find him at the Pod Report. He puts out a monthly newsletter talking about podcasts and he loves audio dramas a lot, so they get a good mention.

A (21:07)

Yeah. And if you're looking on Reddit, and if you don't absolutely hate Reddit, our audio drama is a pretty good place to go. I can't speak for everything there, but I've heard good things.

B (21:23)

Oh, Instagram, Really? I. I kid you not, my friend.

A (21:28)

What?

B (21:30)

Yeah, search like the audio drama tag on Instagram. There. There are. There are podcasts that like started on Instagram and I had to talk to them and be like, hey, you should also be on Twitter.

A (21:44)

What? That is very, very strange to me.

B (21:49)

Yeah, I found so many on Instagram, it was baffling.

A (21:56)

So anything that we didn't get to that you think is important to talk.

B (22:02)

About, I would say. Oh, I know what I want to say. If you're listening to podcasts, I highly encourage all listeners to take steps outside of their comfort zone and to try to find podcasts that are specifically from places they are not from. So a lot of the talk about podcasts and when we are looking for them are highly America centric and also English centric. So I assure you that there are tons of podcasts from different countries that are in a language that you understand because they know that a lot of podcast coverage is English centric. So they happen in English.

A (22:50)

Are there any ones that stand out to you that you could recommend?

B (22:54)

Yeah, so actually first I would recommend Play for Voices. So Play for Voices. Is a podcast that takes audio plays and audio dramas from other countries and translates them into English and then performs them.

A (23:12)

Oh, cool.

B (23:13)

Yeah, it's super rad. It's wonderful. I highly recommend it. I also recommend Radio Atlas. Radio Atlas is actually kind of a visual podcast. It takes nonfiction, like radio nonfiction, radio and podcast episodes, and then puts in English subtitles so you still get the original audio, but it has English subtitles for you to read. Radio Atlas is doing amazing work.

A (23:42)

Awesome.

B (23:43)

And if you like creative, sort of creative nonfiction a little bit, this American Lifestyle, I would recommend Sound Africa. Sound Africa is. It's a podcast out of South Africa that also covers different parts of the African diaspora. And they do little. Each episode is like a separate story. And it's some really gorgeous work.

A (24:15)

Cool. Well, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you. How can people find you online?

B (24:22)

Okay, you can find me on Twitter homarc. That's S H O M A R Q. You can also find me under that same username on Instagram. If you want to avoid Twitter.

A (24:36)

You.

B (24:36)

Can also find me at my website@elena fernandescollins.com and yeah, that's about it.

A (24:44)

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It's been wonderful.

B (24:48)

Thank you for having me on. This was great.