← AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay 
AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92
02:44:22
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Michael Horn
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Chris
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Michael Horn
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Michael Horn
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Chris
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Michael Horn
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Michael Horn
style, every home Billy is an unusual human being who has had the most painful you have your arm ripped off your body and all of your teeth smashed at the same time, and you're delirious for 30 days because they amputate what remains of your arm without anesthetic. And he all this time, until he was about the age of 16, he claims to have been tutored by this man named Svath S F A T H who was at that time supposedly around 900 years of age. This is a thread that when you pull it, the sweater starts unraveling.
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Chris
Why Billy? Like why won't P or some yazzie or any of these beings just come to the podcast, come sit down, have a chat, let the world know.
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Michael Horn
But let's ask ourselves, if this man has indeed taken 1200 or so UFO photos and they've been authenticated, why would he go to the trouble of falsifying making some kind of a crazy craft that would really be, oh, can't be real. Why would he blow his his story here?
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Chris
To me, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm pretty convinced that that was not a genuine, this was hoax.
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Michael Horn
The UFOs that are being seen around the world, this is not ours because ours are not UFOs. We know what the craft are and we know who's flying them.
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Chris
You said, well, Billy was special.
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Michael Horn
Well, I mean, as soon as we say special, we think there's an Exalted status there.
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Chris
Well, there kind of is with him. There is the chosen one aspect to
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Michael Horn
this, if we can deal with the information at the level that it's intended, if you will, for our development, for our evolution. And Billy has said the meaning of life is the evolution of consciousness.
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Chris
One of the weirdest things that's happened to me, my man. In 2012, I was working at a shoppers drug mart in Ottawa, Ontario, at the Cash. It was lunch rush, utterly typical day. This white guy, dark hair, business casual, like maybe 30 ish, approached my cash with a chocolate bar or something. When I looked up to ask if he'd found anything, everything, Like, I looked into his eyes and suddenly I was looking through his eyes at myself behind the counter. It was a one Mississippi, two Mississippi kind of thing. But it felt like it stretched on and then I was back in my own body. He looked at me with, like a smirk, you know, like he knew. And I sold him this thing. He walked out. I didn't have time to process it. Next customer. Next customer. It was weird, man. I was strangely preternaturally calm throughout. Anyway, see you in Vancouver, man.
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Michael Horn
Front row.
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Chris
Okay, well, we're already rolling, so let's get into it.
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Michael Horn
Fantastic.
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Chris
Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, today I'm joined by UFO researcher, I would say, but also advocate for the Billy Meier case, I would say, maybe even goes so far as to saying a representative of Billy Meier. Now, if there's anyone that is contentious in this space, you know, there are a few names that you can drop and instantly, you know, people will start feuding. And two of those names are Bob Lazar and Billy Meyer. And at the end of my interview, as you know, and as the audience might know with Bob Lazar, we were discussing the Billy Meyer photo, the photo book, and in there, Bob Lazar pointed out, obviously, the sports model, or the beam ship as it's aptly named, that that was a one for one match that was pretty identical. And Bob was kind of blown away. Now, Bob and myself both agree, like, the later stuff is a little questionable. And a lot of people would agree with that as well. And we'll get into all that. But I wanted to. You reached out after that and I thought, what a great opportunity to, you know, have someone who's basically a spokesperson for Billy, who's been around Billy Meyer a bunch of times, who's been at his sort of institute that he has over there, who's studied all of the contact cases. And there are a lot of contact cases over a Thousand.
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Michael Horn
Oh, the reports.
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Chris
The reports, right. And I've made, you know, documentaries about it, researched this stuff through and through. So I thought, you know, what a great opportunity to have an expert on this stuff and to help fill me and my audience in on who this character is and why he's so important and why we're talking about him today. So welcome, Michael Horn.
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Michael Horn
Thank you very much, Chris. It is truly a, not only a pleasure and an honor, but it's a rarity, to be honest with you, that an outreach to people that have considerable platforms and, and interest and knowledge in the field will actually respond to a request to discuss the Meyer material on their platform. It's not that it doesn't or hasn't happened, but it is fairly a rarity. So I thank you for that.
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Chris
Well, absolutely, and it's my, my pleasure. And, and I'm glad that you, you know, traveled all the way. I know you guys are on the west coast. You traveled all the way from the west coast to come here. And so thank you for taking that journey and trusting me to help tell your story. You know, I guess we can start a little bit. For the audience at home who might not be familiar with Billy Meier, the most famous Billy Meier reference would definitely be that, you know, poster that appears in pretty much every X Files episode. The, I want to believe, the cropped version of a Billy Meyer photo. So maybe. So let's start there and maybe if you could introduce us to who this Billy Meyer guy is and why and why we should care about him a little bit.
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Michael Horn
Sure. I'll just start with Billy Meyer is a now 89 year old man who claims that since the age of five he has been meeting with human beings from another star system, that they have tutored him from that age, that from the age of five he has gone on board with them and on his own to go designated places, especially in and around and on the Earth and off earth, let's say, within our solar system and beyond. I like to say, according to the information in the case, and we can talk about what we think is, you know, proof beyond a reasonable doubt and all of that. So to describe Billy at this point would be to say that after about 22 trips that I've gone to Switzerland, taken to Switzerland and met with him each time, spent some time, sometimes it's a half hour, sometimes it's an hour and a half, and had an opportunity to get my own sense of the person to try to frankly and quite honestly try to trick him into revealing that he was hoaxing on four different occasions. At least I came away and I each time with a sense that I had just spent time with a very genuine human being. And people very often this is, let's say, a little divergent to say that there are people that write and say, oh, I really want to go and meet Billy, I want to go and talk to Billy and blah, blah, blah, blah, which used to be more possible. In the years past, there have been any number of things that have contributed to Billy's not just meeting with people with that kind of an openness any longer. Some of that reason is threats and attempts on his life that have totaled 28 by now. So I say to them, listen, I understand, it would be great. I know I, you know, sat with a man, we've spoken about things, we've sat outside and had coffee, we've been in the office many number of times. But if you want to get to know Billy, the best way is to enter into the blog or another site that has what are called the contact notes or contact reports currently and study them, read them. You will find that this man reveals himself as he's revealing massive amounts of information, tens of thousands of pages he's published so far. And you will be able to determine for yourself more about the genuineness or lack thereof of the person as well as have the opportunity to spend as much or as little time as you want reading the content. So I don't know if that's exactly responsive to what you were asking. I could be more specific and say, you know, I feel Billy is this kind of a person or that kind of person. But so many people that do hear about him, that have heard about him, express this. Oh, I really want, can I call him? Can I? I'm saying, look, he's a busy person. Sure. At this age even he has a, he has a lot of responsibilities. You can realize that from the read, but you can learn more about who the man is from what he's expressed. And these content dates back to 1946 when he was something like nine years old and was publishing information, disseminating it. And when you read things that this man as a boy was publishing, you're going to think, well, who wrote this for a nine year old boy? And that kind of thing. So I don't want to carry on too.
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Chris
Sure, yeah, no, I think it's very interesting. And you know, you mentioned that when he was 9 years old that he had these, that he was writing these documents and that, you know, some would perceive that to Be, you know, someone of a much greater age, maybe 30 or 35 years old. So the writing level was already extremely elevated for his age at that time. But the interesting thing is when you speak to Billy, when you hear him speak, rather he doesn't come off as the way he writes. He comes off a lot simpler, just a very sort of simple worded person. Doesn't look for the most descriptive words or is kind of just very fundamental in how he speaks. Very clear and simply communicative. And so it is already anomalous that you have these papers that are written with such a high level of vernacular versus listening to him speak.
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Michael Horn
Yes, a couple things about that. One he did by the time he was 9 and 10, as you just alluded to, it is said that he had the thinking capacity of a 35 year old adult. And he all this time until he was about the age of 16. From 5 to 16, he claims to have been tutored by this man named Svath S F A T H who was at that time supposedly around 900 years of age. We have drawing illustrations of some of the people. You can see the representation. They look pretty much like we do in this. But it was also revealed in the documents, in the conversations when Meyer is speaking with some of the modern day people that he's in contact with and people that he's been in contact with for 50 plus years. So much of what his interactions and his learning was about that trajectory as a young boy and it sounds in a sense like science fiction. So I'd like to say according the information of the case, because there are things that otherwise just seem off the charts.
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Chris
Yeah, don't comport.
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Michael Horn
Yeah, it's like, what are you talking about? And there's nothing to believe in this case. Literally nothing. And they never ask for belief when I say they, neither Meyer nor the alleged extraterrestrials, they speak and they speak in terms that are, as you said, plain and simple and clear. Clear enough to convey any concepts we need. There are times they will say in your terminology, according to your science, it's expressed this way. And they said, we don't tend to create a rarefied language that elevates one group above another, but it doesn't mean that there aren't words. Even Latin words can and are used to describe things that are appropriate, especially in your world. But for the most part we try to communicate what is. And I think I've said this a while ago, I said this when I was reading something from. I think his name is Douglas or Vako Seti. And he was talking about when contact takes place, it will be in the language of mathematics and, you know, kind of showbiz kind of talk, I guess, you know, fancy things are supposed to be done that way. And my response to that was, and I sent it to him. We are being contacted and communicated in the language of science, but in clear terminology. You will find that there is an enormous amount of scientific information in this case we've done our best to vet, as you and I know, when certain things were published. We will look to see, especially if they seem like they have been in the body of information discussed, published going back to 1975, 46, whatever. We will look to see. Is this something that Billy had published? Because I have looked to what I consider to be a higher standard of proof. I know we'll get into the UFOs and all, but I, I, I found another way of looking at the material to like, kind of vet its authenticity. And as I've also said, starting to do this back in the 80s, in the relatively early days you'd say of, you know, online searching and what have you. I got to the best of my knowledge and there are other people to come forward to also contribute to this. I wasn't the only person doing it to find out, because Billy didn't write about everything before everybody else or before all the scientists discovered it. In to the best of our knowledge, there's a sufficiently large. And what's the best term for that?
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Chris
Compendium.
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Michael Horn
Yeah, a compendium with an unlikely number of confirmed and corroborated items that would exceed chance, probability, hoaxing, et cetera, when taken when we take into account that which is known about the man, not just from his writing, but from the investigative team that spent time over years with him, watching, observing, you know, checking things that he would hand over evidence. So we've tried our best to see what can we show is authentic and let, of course, we put this all out like other people do who are interested, so that people can determine the truth for themselves.
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Chris
And I like that, I like that about you because, you know, we discussed for hours yesterday and we're going to kind of rehash a lot of that discussion because, you know, part of me really couldn't wait to dive into this, as you know. Now I'm a seasoned magician. Like, I have a skeptical nature about the way that I approach every subject, but I'm not a skeptic. I'm open to, you know, a fluctuating level of conviction. I want to Be taken in these directions. And I want to be immersed in these stories and see what I can, you know, connect myself and how I can make sense of this rather than dismiss it outright or believe it outright. And it becomes difficult with Billy's case, particularly for a lot of people. I speak. I can speak for myself, but I know I'm speaking for many people at the same time. When you look at. When you begin with the photos. And so for a lot of people, it's hard to get to the, you know, to the. To the writing and to the contact reports if it means I have to acknowledge that the photos are authentic. There's a disconnect there. Like, why would I spend all my time reading all this if I don't believe this? Right? And that's fair. And so for me, it was a little bit of the same at first. But, you know, again, one thing that raised my conviction incredibly was the fact that this initial craft, the one in 1975, I believe that was taken in Switzerland. The one, the, you know, the beautiful composition of this. This photo is immaculate. It's a really beautiful photo. I don't care, regardless of what you think about its authenticity, it's a beautiful photo. And I'm a big fan of photography and film photography. And it was a really nice. And I think that's what made it so iconic, you know, is that it was. There was some beauty to it as well. And seeing that, seeing Bob's reaction to it and then knowing. Getting to know Bob, I have no choice but to, at this point, with what I know from Bob's story and, you know, I've met the man. And as you know, when you meet someone, it's a different level of conviction that you can now have. And not everybody has that luxury to meet Billy or to meet Bob, but we've had those luxuries individually, respectively. And we can then sort of formulate perhaps a deeper understanding of the story a little bit better from like a personal sort of level. Yeah, exactly. And so knowing Bob and knowing that this craft is pretty much identical, if not just in look, but maybe not in size so much, but it is an identical match physically to the other one. And my brain instantly goes, well, there are only a few options here, right? These are the options that we must consider. One option being, okay, Billy made it up, Bob made it up. That's the first option. We gotta get outta the way. And a lot of people, that's what they think, and it's fair, you can go with that. I choose to look deeper to see if there's maybe another option here. Next option would be, okay, the craft was authentic, and then the craft that Bob was shown was like a replica of that, right? Perhaps some Lockheed Martin deep underground black military project. They were, you know, psyoping bobbles or whatever it is, whatever you want to go to. And then there's there. I mean, there's a few more options, but the other obvious option is, well, it's authentic and so is this. And that's the one I like exploring because to me, it's the one that's filled with the most wonder. And I think it's an interesting path to take. Plus, with all the evidence that we have before us, it becomes really compelling. However, we get to a bit of a fork in the road when it comes to the later photos, and namely, what's known as the wedding cake ufo, you know, aptly named. It looks like a wedding cake. And as someone, you know, as a photographer myself, I have found personally, just by looking at it and without having to do any deep spectronomy or anything like that, just some imperfections or inconsistencies with reality when taking photos from objects, and mainly due to my background in illusion, there is a forced perspective that simply doesn't work for me, and that wasn't optimized when taking these photos. There's certain. I'll put it up here, but there's a certain formula that you have to follow when you're doing this type of stuff. And online. Online, people like Zach King, I don't know if you're familiar, but no, there's like a. He uses this type of principle pretty much in every video and ends up fooling the audience at home. And so there are certain laws that you have to obey, and it seems to me like they were not obeyed in the instances. In some of the instances regarding the wedding cake ufo. So that's where I stopped initially. And I'm giving you the long, and I want to hear your thoughts on this, but I also want the audience to know how I feel about it because I think it's important that they know where I'm coming from. That's where I stopped initially, because the skeptic in me is like, well, I'm going to throw the baby out with the bathwater at this point. But then Bob showed up and Bob's like, no, that's it. And now I got to reconsider either that wedding cake UFO is also real, or the one's real and the one's fake. Right? These are both really interesting Options and that's kind of where I was at with everything. And then obviously looking a little bit more into the contact cases and the contact reports. Now I'm back in because this is very interesting because now we're talking about legitimate facts that we can actually look up and I think that's where we're at currently. So I want to go through some of the photo stuff. I want to definitely go through the contact stuff and some of the witness reports from other people around Billy. But then I'd like to end up maybe going a little deeper into, you know, some of the prophecies or some of the, you know, the tales, if you will. So let's start here. The wedding cake ufo.
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Michael Horn
Okay, I want to see as an overriding response because I am not a photographic expert, I have mainly focused on researching the information. And we could say I'm matching is this can match this can. Oh, okay. Now I can report that there are these two cans that match. This one doesn't match. So I am not knowledgeable about how the can was made and when it was made. I just want to really be clear. There are a couple people, Francisco Velate and Chris Locke, who have written extensively about, well, the wedding cake craft plus the so called pendulum ufo.
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Chris
And that's the video?
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Michael Horn
Yeah, that's one of the craft in the video. There's several films, there's eight films remaining. Billy had taken more. They got, they disappeared. Stolen is what we understand. But I will say a couple things about the wedding cake craft. For instance, there is the nighttime series. This object skeptics have said now they've used a model and painted it gold and they photographed it against the black curtain. So one of the things that happened when Chris and Francisco were doing their analyses and all, they took one of those photographs where the. It's pitch black behind the craft and here's this gold thing glowing. Then it was I in, otherwise seemingly identical to the silver craft. And they dropped it into Photoshop, in other words, a technology that I am also not expert in. And the information is they adjusted, they played with contrast and brightness. Lo and behold, this object, instead of appearing as a model, maybe suspended by a string or what have you, now appears to be a large object hovering over a graveled road. And on that road there is one of those, I think they're meter high white posts. They appear in different countries in Europe where they're marking the roads. They have these white posts that are about a meter high, best of my recollection. And then there's a Grassy hillside that curves up behind it. Now, two photographs, one that they did and somebody else did a similar enlargement. They took it right off, you know, the, the Internet and played with it. And both of them got the, the same kind of, you know, background. And both of them also got kind of an energetic field that seemed to be present. I don't know how and why. As I say, I'm not a high tech guy. I thought that since that was never anything that Billy spoke about, he didn't say, well, if you'll do this, you'll see it's real. Never does any of that type of thing. He says, this is what happened. Here are the photographs. Have a nice day. You know, and he'll answer questions about things or did. Certainly in the past photographs have been analyzed. There's, we have analyses online especially of the earlier craft. The other thing about the wedding craft. Wedding craft, the wedding cake, ufo is that in the black backgrounded gold object photographs. I happened to notice this going back about 10 years or so. I don't. I've been going to Switzerland for 20 or so. Somewhere in there at home, I'm looking and I said, wait a minute, there's a difference in the configuration, in the dimension here on this object where something was like this together in this. There's a cupola kind of, I guess now this has got a different dimension. There's a burnished band here and nobody's talked about this. Why is that? So I asked Billy, I said, billy, it appears to me that this is elevated here. What is that? And he says, oh, yes, it's like they have a, a room, you would say, like with the shower. It's more space up there. They raised that up. So in one of the contact reports, Billy discusses that with one of the alleged extraterrestrials. Michael, you know, came up with this thing. I don't know how he knows this, but. And the ET says, yes, well, you know, of course we have an extra space that is created that way. I thought, now if a guy's a model maker, and I should say that certainly in the earlier days when I, I nosed around the property quite a bit to see what do they have here, what are their tools and other. So I saw there was this shed and the door was open. I walked over to see what kind of nice, fine Swiss watchmaking stuff Billy must have socked away to make these great models. Well, there's a tractor, there's a bunch of shovels, there's a bunch of different kinds of gardening stuff. And I had also been of course, in different rooms in this center, which is a renovated farmhouse, that Billy, quite literally single handed, since he has one hand, did a great deal of work on himself before people came to gather around to study this material and to help him on the property. I never found anything. I was never, you know, seeing any evidence of anything that was really fine machining kind of stuff. The people there are people of the land, of the earth. They drive tractors and they do this stuff. And. And Billy, just as a side note, if I may, in observing him and in speaking to people, he's about the most knowledgeable person pertaining to the, in the environment, the plants, the biology of things, where to plan things. Now he had assistance with some of that planning. Ostensibly there are things describing one of the extraterrestrials using a device saying for this species of tree, it will do better. Over here where these readings are coming, you know, there's thousands of pages of stuff. So I don't want to go too far afield because I get excited about running down these roads. I never. And I met the people that were working with him. There's a very kind of curmudgeony guy there named Jacobus. When we made our first film over there, I started to refer to him as Diesel because this is a guy. All the tractor work and you go there and they are busy all the time. They're very clever that they have a meeting for the people around the world who want to come and participate. Late May as spring is coming and all you nice folks can meet each other and help us clear the land at the same time and learn about things. And I always wanted to get involved with getting stuff out of the forest and building the fires. Once I knew that that was an option and I had to do other things. The first trip or two, go in the garden and pull weeds. Let's see what you can handle here. And there's many things that occurred in these interactions and they're, they're sweet memories. So my experience was that the people were very grounded, they were genuine. There was none of this I must meeting with the space brothers kind of stuff that is ubiquitous in ufology. And Billy is just probably the most knowledgeable person that I know of that have read and I'm not the best read person, but this is a human being who knows things and freely communicates them. If you ask the right question, you get the right answer. Nothing mystical there. You're in your apartment alone, then you hear something. You think, was it just the storm? You realize you're not alone. Your living room is not safe with Unhinged, the new immersive game experience brought to you by Netflix. To make it out alive, you must answer the phone. The question is, when your phone rings, will you answer? Tap the banner to play Unhinged now only on Netflix.
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- [31:14]
Chris
You know, I've realized something. Doing UFO content. The second you need footage of a nine foot alien standing in a child's bedroom at 3am, stock footage starts becoming a problem. So I started using Higgs Field Cinema Studio. What's actually smart about it is the workflow. You start with one frame, one good shot, lighting, composition, mood. You can even select your cameras, your lenses, everything. Then instead of regenerating chaos over and over, like most AI tools, you extend that exact shot into motion. So if I'm recreating an abduction scene or a guy claiming he saw a glowing craft hovering over a Highway in 1987, I can generate multiple angles and movements that actually feel like they belong in the same sequence. Which is important because I'd prefer that my fake alien footage at least look professionally fake. Honestly, it's the first AI video workflow I've used that feels less like gambling and more like directing. If you want to try it, link's below. Thanks to Higgs Field for sponsoring this video. So going back to the wedding cake UFO and you know, there are a few things that I, that I noticed because I know that a lot of your photographic summaries or analysis happened for the ones that were at a distance. Not so much the ones that were the nighttime, close ones with a little car and the little shrub. Like those weren't analyzed in this body of work, I think. But we can, we can double check that those are the ones that I, that I take the most issue with. And I, I would say I wouldn't necessarily think they were point painted gold. I think I, yeah, because the light source was probably a really warm light and you know, by the size of the light source being cast on that object, it would have had to been a massive light source. If that craft was 40ft large or 20ft or whatever it is, 15 to 20, I think, a picture. But regardless, it would have had to been like a football sized light shining on that because of the reflective nature. If you have a Craft that large with a regular light source like a flashlight or anything else, you would just have a small spot on it. Now the idea here is that the craft was emanating that light, which I don't see and I do see a reflection, a lighter part. So now one thing does have to be mentioned is that you'd mentioned that Billy was a model maker now.
- [33:41]
Michael Horn
No, no, he's not a model maker.
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Chris
But he built models.
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Michael Horn
No, I was looking to see if he did. He had once, as I recall, he had said that he had tried to make a model.
- [33:52]
Chris
I see.
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Michael Horn
And there was some younger people who made some models for him and a, you know, that he put in his office little things, you know, because he
- [34:00]
Chris
is one handed, he's one armed, he
- [34:02]
Michael Horn
has one arm and he's very capable. So it's not like he's not cap. I've, you know, he. But I've never seen him do any, what I would call fine work. And the other thing about the craft and the light, just to be clear, yes, I think you're correct that if that was illuminated from outside, but what was shown in the manipulated Photoshop application to the photo was an emanation not of a light source illuminating the craft, but around it, some form of energy thing. And when the early analyses of the originals were done, there are photographs, they use some kind of thermography and detected different heat signatures represented by different colors. You'll understand this better than I will. And we, you know, we have all that, that, that stuff was done in the 70s with earlier computers and what have you. But this is where, when people have come forward to make models and they won't subject them to computer analysis. Billy's were subjected. He just turned everything over. He turned over the metal samples, the sound recordings he made out in a big field with 15, 20 eyewitnesses. And people would come on one of those occasions at least people came from 4km away because of the sounds that were emanating from above. And of course when you see the, the photographs and all, there's places they're standing in a big empty field. There's no big speakers. And as for, you know, a large light also that kind of a thing. Oh, he's taking all these photos at night. Is the guy running around with or accomplices setting up lights and all this stuff? Or could it, could it be genuine? Everybody has to go through that themselves that are interested. I think there's, it's pretty compelling.
- [35:59]
Chris
I mean, yeah, it can be debated because there are, you know, Especially with the photos where it appears that the craft is really close to the camera, like a, it looks like a smaller object close to the camera. There's always a frame that's out of frame. There's always a part of the UFO that's not, you know, so if you were one handed, as it were, you know, might be, you know, put on the automatic timer, hold it there, get your photo. But there is a, there seems to be, especially with the car. I say this one because it's the most like striking visually photo that's available in terms of detecting. Yeah. Detecting issues. Your brain will automatically instantly go, that's not real. And that is because there is a ratio that isn't being respected. Like, I know I explained this a little bit yesterday, but when you, when you open up your aperture to like F15 or F16, which means there's less depth of field for your photo. So normally like these cameras now that we're filming on, I think it's at 1.8 and 1.8 is very tight.
- [37:05]
Michael Horn
Yeah.
- [37:05]
Chris
Now it has facial recognition. So if I move back or forth, I'm still gonna be in focus, but if that were manually focused, I'd be here and I'd be out of focus. So by putting it to F14, you're now bringing in, you're bringing in actually less light and you're opening it up more. And now we get to see, you know, a wider range of depth of field. And that would be necessary if you're taking landscape photos of a UFO and you can't necessarily focus in. The problem is that the only time an object will be that out of focus when you're shooting, you know, something with, with an F stop of like 8 to 1516 is when something is close to the camera lens and I mean like inches away. And so in this one instance we have this, what appears a car, but it seems incredibly out of focus. And does the shrub. But the craft is in focus. So already there's a difference in distance between these two things. But also it gives me the information that this object is very close to the camera. And the only way that that can be is if this object was very small size of a toy car, say. And so that's where, you know, that's where I go. Okay. To me, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm pretty convinced that that was not a genuine. Like, this was, this was hoax, this photo particularly where does that leave me on the conviction of Billy Meier? Does my conviction go down? Yes. Does it Go down all the way down to zero. No. And that's where I come back because now we have this photo, this other photo of the. Of the craft that can't be debunked, Right? Yeah.
- [38:47]
Michael Horn
Well, let me throw a little stuff in here.
- [38:50]
Chris
Sure.
- [38:51]
Michael Horn
When you are familiar from our film that I was interrogated, if you will, over a period of about, I guess, five, six months, whatever it was from January. Oh, yes. Three months. And then he fellow returned in August. Five months later. This guy was a skeptic. He approached me in a very blunt way and it was fine. Are you sure you want to talk about this case? Yes. Why do you ask? Because I think it's a hoax. Oh, okay. Well, let's go. And he wouldn't tell me who he was. And finally I learned that this was retired United States Air Force Office of Special Investigation.
- [39:27]
Chris
Wow.
- [39:28]
Michael Horn
Department of Defense case supervisor and investigator, or case investigator and supervisor, however that worked. And he came back and he said, I'm going to tell you about your Billy Meier case, and first you have to look on your email. And what do you see? I had opened my email. I said, well, I see a tabletop with a bunch of looks like citations. He says, can you read those? I said, well, I can see some of those Air Force. And he says, yes, you know, and it was significant. It was literally a tabletop coverage and at which I could make out. So I knew who I was, whoever I was speaking with, because I only knew his name was Joe at this point, had good credentials. He. He had access to this stuff. And then he said, okay, now please delete it and let's go on and talk about your Billy Meyer case. So as I say, I tell the story in the film. I don't want to recap everything. He came to the conclusion. He. And he explained why. And we can talk as much or as little about that as you wish. He said, your Billy meyer case is 100% ironclad, authentic, and I will take on any skeptics in your behalf. And then after he'd taken on a couple skeptics in ufology and he said, sorry, retracting the offer. These people don't understand investigation. They literally have things backwards. So I'm going to write you an article whereby anybody, if they will just walk through these steps and the core of it will be means, motive and opportunity. We can explain how you can go through that. But he also said something else. He said, look, this man knew, maybe still knows when and where to go, that he will have the opportunity to shoot at least a whole roll of 35 millimeter photographs. He will be able to shoot eight millimeter films. So we're elevating the complexity of things a bit in certain ways. There's situations where he'll shoot both and. And you'll have a video such as in the Pendulum the Wedding Cake. Yeah and he said he explained that if you have this much evidence it's going to make the authenticity of this part of the case. He's the logic also being and I don't dismiss you've got to find out did he hoax us. But let's ask ourselves if this man has indeed taken 1200 or so UFO photos of eight films that remain a video and they've been authenticated by also visually by you know former the late astronaut Gordon Cooper. The investigators came to my home with these. I know them we looked at it's real. This is. This man is meeting with extra okay. It's an opinion Astronauts are fairly well trained also in certain aspects. People again have to determine for themselves. But the question is if a man goes through all that we know that Myers ordeals of going out because a lot of things you have to go over here it's 40km from your house. Yes, it's snowing but just show up at this time. It's daytime, it's nighttime, whatever. And people. Yes there are people trying to kill you and that we know that is authentic even trying to kill him in his home. So he has to be careful where he goes. Why would he and let alone how why would he go to the trouble of falsifying making some kind of a crazy craft that would really be be oh can't be real. Why would he blow his his story here? And that's just a question that I can leave now we can speculate and people can say well the reason he would do that is thus and so. But the UFO material as you've already acknowledged that's and I've stated it's the eye candy it gets you in or doesn't to looking at the Billy Meyer UFO case or as I from the beginning called it the Billy Meyer context. And oftentimes I leave the UFO out of it. I started leaving the UFO out of it in a lot of things starting in 2004 because I had already seen certain information that told me wait a minute, this is more important than UFOs? Well how can anything be more important than UFOs in UFOlogy? They're not part of ufology as Billy wrote and wrote it even again recently, we are the UFOs that are being seen around the world. And they have given information on their version of where, how, who. This is not ours because ours are not UFOs. We know what the craft are and we know who's flying them. And they're very. It's like that cute, literal, you know, we are Germanic, and we are going to explain this this way to you. Okay, maybe you do and maybe you don't, but that's not us. We don't do that. You will not be taking any. No more photographs or films of our craft will be presented because we stopped doing that at this point. And they told Billy in about 1981-82, no more photo ops. And he says, well, why? You know, we could read. Well, you're entering the computer age, and as you will soon learn, if you haven't already, people are already going to call you a hoaxer and a liar and a deceiver, and gosh knows what, your life will be at risk. There's no need for it. This is a body of evidence that will be analyzed. The photos, the films, the video, the sound recordings, the metal samples here, you will turn them over to the team who will find experts in these areas and they will determine their viewpoint on all this stuff. Marcel Vogel, a scientist with IBM, was one of those genius types who never, to the best of my knowledge, got some kind of degrees. It's just he. IBM recognized. He does this. He can do all this. He's the guy that, I believe it was creating the coding on floppy disks and all this. So that, again, out of my league. I don't know. He does a video and he says, basically, with any technology available to me, I cannot make this. This is made in a cold. Cold fusion outer space something.
- [45:53]
Chris
You're talking about the material, the metal?
- [45:55]
Michael Horn
Yes, because Billy received, allegedly, samples of metals at different stages of manufacture.
- [46:04]
Chris
Okay.
- [46:05]
Michael Horn
And in some of the magnifications, when Marcelo Vogel was blowing these things up, hundreds of, you know, magnifications, he could detect laser cuttings that were extremely. I mean, this is. That was interesting to me. There are laser cuttings here. There are things within things. These are discrete relationships of these elements. They're not just blended in as if they were heated in an oven. This has characteristics that should be of interest to metallurgists. This is a different composition. We don't have this sound recordings at the time, they couldn't duplicate them. They said, well, maybe we could if we ran. If we had a bank of synthesizers. And I'm I'll make that sound recording available to you. It's downloadable. It's great. I, I when we, when people get it from us and they say I want that, I, I usually say, please don't play this at night with your car windows down and in neighborhoods where people are touchy because it's this weaving sound that travels through lots of different frequencies. And people found some interesting things in that too. This Swiss one armed farmers come up with this thing. It's really just if you take a string and string it across and vibrate it, you get the same thing. That's what some people say. Of course, the readings that they get are.
- [47:29]
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- [47:56]
Michael Horn
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- [48:23]
Chris
Let's go. Yeah, I don't know about any of that, you know, and, and I'd love to have a look and I'd love to have a listen, of course. And I'll feature it here.
- [48:32]
Michael Horn
Good.
- [48:33]
Chris
You know, but this is again, just like there's, there's, there's so many facets and components and variables here. I like to, I like to hone in on the one that I find dubious because for me, you know, if there's anything that I can gather from the. I can't, I don't do any audio analysis and I can't tell you where that's from. I can't do any metal analysis or tell you where that's from. But when it comes to photos, I'm pretty good. And when it comes to depth perception and forced perspective, I'm really good at that. And so that's the one that for me stands out. Now, let's put that aside in a separate category so that we can move forward into another part of the Billy Meier stuff. Because for me, I'm at a point where, okay, let's say on the one hand that this is 100%. This. These series of photos are 100% a hoax, 100% proven. He even admits it. Yeah, it was a hoax. Sorry. All right, let's say we live in this universe. The fact that the earlier ones seem to be real, it makes this irrelevant because now we have something that's fundamentally real. Now the skeptic out there will naturally say, well, if this is a hoax, that's a hoax. That's how most people operate. They take one thing, ah, it unravels the whole thing. Let's throw the baby out. I'm a little different. I'm willing to forgive transgressions and say, okay, maybe there was a mistake. You're human. And maybe there's some error that happened here or some slight slip of judgment or, you know, some dark point in your life. I don't know. But maybe there's a reason for that that I don't have all the answers for. But it doesn't take away from these photos here lining up with Mr. Lazar's, you know, depiction of the craft. So once we get beyond this, we go beyond the photos because. Oh, go ahead.
- [50:28]
Michael Horn
I was going to say there's one thing that should be said so that you and the audience understands. See, and this, you're. What you're speaking about and speaking of, in this kind of acknowledgement, comes close to what Joe Tisk, the USAF guy, said. And he said, people don't understand something. And he used an analogy. I think I may have spoken about this with you, but he said, as an investigator, let me use this analogy. There's a man who's been murdered. He's lying on the ground. There's a gun, There's a wallet, I.D. fingerprints on the gun, the whole thing. We've got our man. Except that somebody comes forward with a video taken during the period of time when we can determine that man was dead. Matter of fact, this video, this guy's 2,000 miles away at a wedding. And we can prove what we can prove that supersedes this nice evidence here, which otherwise, it's a slam dunk. From my perspective. That man, his ID there, his fingerprints on the gun, he's not there. He wasn't there for that. Whether or not we can figure out who's placed something, that we don't care. We have that man somewhere else. And what people in ufology don't understand is they have it backwards. And this is what he said. One piece of verifiable evidence. You throw out those inconsistencies. If that's. You can Prove that. Now, that's an uncomfortable thing for most people in this case. Just so people might be a tad more comfortable. What you're alluding to when you say this other material that Bob Lazar has looked at. No, there are basically about 580 remaining photographs. The other ones, let's say the WC UFO, there's 63 photos in a video. So I would say I did as it did. Say I defer to Francisco and Chris and I hope that you guys are going to have a killer conversation about this and somebody's going to come out and say, well, okay, you're right, whoever that's going to be. Or I understand that, or I accept that, or I don't. And it could be him, it could be you. I don't know. I'll be very interested in that. But Joe Tisk made it very clear and he said, we have not only one authentic photo, we have rolls of them. And I said, as he said to me, your case is 100% authentic. And then he also referred back to auxiliary factors in the case that he researched that further supported the authenticity. You know, how does this vagabond in India in 1964, which Billy was walk wandering around with a knapsack. He says because Billy was interviewed in a prominent newspaper in India and the journalist who interviewed him is looking through an album with 80 UFO photos in 1964. Joe Tiss asks, Where did this vagabond get 80 UFO photos in 1964 in India? There's no UFOs or US. And you still have at least a dozen of those, which we do. And one of them is phenomenally interesting because it appears there's a hologram in the photo. And Billy had explained it. And it's just these are primitive, taken with an old Kodak. What do you call it? It's a. One of those boxy cameras where the
- [54:10]
Chris
thing was a Brownie or the. No, like a Polaroid, it looked like,
- [54:15]
Michael Horn
but it wasn't a polar. You know how they slide out. And I used to know what it called because my father had one. And those things you have to, you know, when you took photographs with that, you. It's a crapshoot. Because this was relatively primitive stuff. This is 40s technology. And Billy was taking his photographs at that time in 1964 with this early version of a Kodak, I'll agree.
- [54:37]
Chris
Compelling.
- [54:38]
Michael Horn
Yeah. So there's. And then there's the auxiliary things. Well, the woman who was a young girl at the ashram in India in 1964, whose uncle was the head monk. She became the UN, I think. Was it the ambassador to the UN or the representative? I always screw that one up. From Cambodia for a dozen years at the un. Then she retired. She was an eyewitness at the time. Then she comes forward at a certain point in the 90s when people are saying, hey, wait a minute. Ms. Chang, you were. We've heard about this Billy Meier UFO case. You were there? Yes, well, I. No, no, please come for. And there was another woman who was a tutor of hers. They came forward, they gave a press conference and she explained where these photographs were taken, that there were a hundred eyewitnesses to them. And one of the photographs, you see a woman in the photograph with eight the lights in the sky, quality UFOs. The rest of the photographs, they were all clear discs hovering over things. And she. Just as fluid as possible. Yes, I remember I used to see Billy meeting with this woman, Esquette. This was his second alleged contact person. And at times, I was a young girl at the time and as Kit would sometimes come into my room at night before I'm falling asleep and she would hummer sing to me, stroke my hair, brush my hair, whatever. And in the morning I would wake up. I always felt like I knew more when I woke up than when I went to sleep. These are just human beings coming forward with their perspectives. The guy who interviewed Billy and, and said, well, here's this man and he's got this stuff and he tells this tale and he doesn't really want publicity, but okay, this is real life stuff that precedes by many years, you know, many years the Internet mentality that we have. I want to be a celebrity, I want to be famous. Bill is a recluse and he's got good reason to stay when people are shooting it.
- [56:36]
Chris
You.
- [56:36]
Michael Horn
And yes, and all of that has been documented and I've talked to 14 eyewitnesses and seen bullet holes and lead investigating. Okay, so in terms of this thing of, well, if this is a hoax, I just throw in there's a lot to consider.
- [56:50]
Chris
Yes. Now be that as it may, he might have his own reasons for hoaxing this particular side of the story. We don't know, there might be a personal thing that we're just not aware of. We don't know that. But based on my initial analysis, I'm more comfortable living in that scenario just because my brain cannot comprehend that being authentic. But that being said, I'm willing to suspend that and move on into the story. And potentially, if this were the case. Forgive that transgression to move forward and be like, okay, let's look at the other stuff, much like the stuff you were talking about now. And before we get into some of the more factual evidence that's easier to follow up, like the. The theories and stuff like this that were given to him, imparted with him by these beings, the alleged contacts. I want to talk about some of the eyewitnesses because I think that's really interesting as well. Now a lot of people out there will be like, well, why only Billy? Right? That's. That's like one of the main things. Why only him? Why not show yourself? Where is the other evidence? Has anyone else seen these beings?
- [58:04]
Michael Horn
Yes, of course.
- [58:04]
Chris
Well, I'd like. I'd like you to elaborate on that a little bit.
- [58:07]
Michael Horn
Okay. From what I know, the sightings of the people are generally accidental. They're not intended. And there. I've talked to people who've seen either the alleged Pleiaran people, people called this word Pleiadian that Billy and they invented. There's no such thing as Pleiadians. You can flush that. And they gave that up after a while because they predicted certain things and they came true. About all these people that would come forward claiming to be contactees.
- [58:40]
Chris
Okay, so you're referring to the Space Brother Movement.
- [58:43]
Michael Horn
Yes, the Space Brother Movement meetings, Ashtar Command.
- [58:48]
Chris
Yes, and all this.
- [58:49]
Michael Horn
And there was an. Ah, the Ashtar thing is extremely interesting. But I'll wait till you. If you want to get to that.
- [58:54]
Chris
Okay, we'll get to that later. Now I'm intrigued. Okay, I'm back into Ashtar. Let's go.
- [58:59]
Michael Horn
Should we get to that later?
- [59:00]
Chris
We'll get to it later.
- [59:01]
Michael Horn
Okay, so with all of this, you know, what can you say?
- [59:09]
Chris
Well, the witnesses. Let's talk about some of those witnesses, who they are, how they came about seeing these other beings and these craft.
- [59:16]
Michael Horn
Sure. Well, let's The. Let's go to the ones that would be most obvious. His ex wife, who they had a very acrimonious relationship, 30 years of marriage, and then they got divorced. She had. Was one of 17 people that they did at using the technology of the time, voice stress or whatever. They did lie detector tests with the people who were around him, who claimed to be eyewitnesses, and they all passed as being authentic. She was one of them. And also his children. He has three adult children. Atlantis, Atlant and Gilgamesha. And I don't know anything about Gilgamesha. If she's made any comments but, oh, wait, pardon me, Atlantis. His stepson, Methuselah is his. These are rich names. Okay, so Atlantis is featured in one of our films, and it was one of the more compelling and moving interviews we did when we did this film, the Silent Revolution of Truth. He's one of Billy's two natural sons, and he spoke about the difficulty in his life because his father, you know, he was referred to as the son of a spinner, I guess you'd say in German or something. You know, he's a liar and a fabricator.
- [60:40]
Chris
No.
- [60:41]
Michael Horn
So they're growing up with that. And as children, they have seen this. These craft. And they know from his father's activities before anybody ever came to investigate there. His father's disappearing in the middle of the night and coming back and writing voluminous stuff and publishing information starting in 1975. It's getting out in Europe before it's translated into English. And people are already interested or attacking him. The whole dream or nightmare has begun. And he and his siblings were subjected to a lot of ridicule. And when he speaks about this whole thing, I would just say when, because we were there, my partner and I, Jack, a German guy, and we're filming him, and it's just like you're feeling what this man is telling you coming from that emotional place. And just the sense of, oh, my God, what have you gone through? Because he was trying to. How do I balance all this in real life? And sometimes it is just too painful. And so this wasn't like, well, they came to me and they talked to me, and, you know, all this stuff that we hear, you know, freely floating around in ufology, and million people have these nice conversations and all. He never sees. To the best of my knowledge, he doesn't see them. He sees the ships he's painted or drawn them as a child. But it's the byproduct of this being a real thing to this family that he and his siblings grew up with. And that was just very touching. It was emotional. And there are other. There's over a hundred eyewitnesses. Some of them are also multiple eyewitnesses.
- [62:27]
Chris
There's eyewitnesses to the beings as well.
- [62:30]
Michael Horn
There were, I think, three or four.
- [62:33]
Chris
Can we talk about those? Because I'm very interested in the beings more than the craft.
- [62:37]
Michael Horn
Yes. And the woman I knew, her name was Bruni, and she was. She was either a Swiss or a German, maybe. Maybe she was a German. And she described a very unusual thing. We have it in the film. She Said if I can recall. Well, we did the film over 20 years ago. And she says, I was walking along and I turned the corner and where the wall is, Billy built this wall. There is this huge man reclining on the wall. Turns out, she says it was this guy, Daniil. And she talks about learning ultimately I think that he was like 15ft tall. He wasn't one of the people in this playarin group. And there's also smaller people. There's a. Interesting evidence from smaller people. We may get to that if you want. But she said, I at first I was very startled, but he was there and then he disappeared. He wasn't there. And I'm going. And she's know, relating, talking to herself about it. Now you don't get any significant content about the people in the sense. Meyer's wife had walked in while they were still together into the room where the alleged leader of their race, Ptah, pronounced P T A A H like, sounds like the ancient God of Egypt, Ptah. He's sitting on the couch and unexpectedly she walks in. He's startled, hits his stomach or something. She says he disappears. Because usually all the times when Billy is meeting with these people, no one is around to interrupt them. There was one experience that was a near fatal tragedy that occurred with one of the plen being there and somebody making themselves known unexpectedly. But she saw him. Then later on she changes her story. Oh no. Billy's making models. He's lying about everything. Some investigation was done by people and at the time just, you know, you're, you're talking here a detective story. This isn't just everything you start throwing in. Well, what happened at the time? Some people found out when she was divorced from Billy and on her own, suddenly her bank account was increased by 5 figures in Swiss money. And there were some people that now she was affiliated with who were known skeptics and defamers of Billy. A person, you know, the saying is a woman scorned. It could be a man scorned too, but this is real life. It's unpleasant. Billy didn't have the most harmonious thing. She had thrown things at him like frying pans. And this is just like a man reveals his life. Billy has held nothing back about his life. The things he felt he was, you know, failed at or succeeded at. He, he ran away from Switzerland as a teenage boy because they wanted to put him into a juvenile detention center. Well, why? Well, there was a woman who really hated him. There have been people who followed him from childhood and this Woman had grabbed a towel, if I've got this connection right, and started. I don't know if it was wet or what. She started to beat him with it, and he'd had enough. This had gone on since shy. He took the towel and slapped her around with it. Well, this didn't sit well with the legal system. Billy decides that he thinks he'll take a trip to the French Foreign Legion and avoid some consequences, which he did. And he was in the French Foreign Legion for a while, and he recognized that while he was learning how to do certain things that would be useful in the world, he did not want to become a trained killer. And he would return to Switzerland and face the music, which he did. And the story also was that he trudged across the desert, one of the few people to ever walk out from wherever he was centered there. I don't know if it was Algiers. What, to walk across the desert and survive it. There were two men who were trying to also escape. When they saw him, they followed him and he had a canteen and he would sip from it and pretend that it was still full of water when it already been and shake it in their faces so that they would want to catch up with him and get themselves across the desert at the same time. I don't know how it all turned out. There are stories here that go on and on and on. Some things there are witnesses to, some things there aren't. But the eyewitnesses to the craft, there are over a hundred. And as I've told you, I mean, I've had three sightings of craft. Very interesting.
- [67:18]
Chris
I want to get into those prior to that. There are photos in the picture book that depict a whole slew of people just kind of standing on a hill. And behind them, in almost like a double exposure fashion, there's like sometimes one craft, sometimes two, where it was said that Semyaze was the, you know, the inhabitant of this craft was like teleporting the craft or something. But did the people in the photo See those UFOs as they were there in the sky, or did they? Was this only revealed after the photos were?
- [67:50]
Michael Horn
To the best of my knowledge, they didn't. However, the circumstances of that were also described. And, you know, I don't know if the whole story is in the photo book and, you know, the photo books in German, but fortunately, as I tell people, the photographs are in English.
- [68:06]
Chris
Yeah, I can also read German.
- [68:08]
Michael Horn
Right. And all of us can read photographs. So we had in that there was a man. I don't know his name was something like Lur liner, whatever. When this was set up, when Billy said, I'd like everybody, you know, you folks to come to tomorrow to this place, open field and there's trees in the background. And then this man said, I want to, you know, you're going to take photographs? He says, yes. He says, I want to purchase and load the film into the camera before you take the photos. And I want to take that out and be the one who brings it for development at Bare Photo. Billy said, that's fine. And that's what happened. That the way it's written, he gave the camera to the guy, loaded it, Billy took whatever, 30 or more photos. There's a lot of photos of that. And like you were describing it, seemingly the craft may be almost in two places at one time, blah, blah, interesting photos. People are standing in the foreground. This craft is in different locations behind them. And Billy Story is, had no possession of the film. Now that's not unusual. When the investigators, Wendell Stevens and others were trying to also figure out if Billy was hoaxing these photos, they, Wendell had a model made at the MGM studios in Hollywood of one of the craft. Now in today's technology, even if you're going to make a model, you'd get a better model. But it was good enough. They took photos and what they did is they would go to locations where Billy said, this is where I took this. I was at this fire pit here and then the ship is over here. And they said, okay, let's go there or wherever it was. And Billy, you take photos with your camera and we're going to take photos and we're going to dangle the model. So they did a bunch of that. And then this is, I think this is also in the freely available report on the photographs that we have online. And they said every photograph the computer would look at and you know, you're getting, this is a model, there's no question, there's no energy fields around it and blah, blah. And it's clear. You talk about, you know, depth and all of this. And I remember looking, reading a little bit about the photo analysis when I first got them from, from Bill, not from Billy, but from Wendell. And I remember something about haze effects at things at a distance. I was kind of interested and I never plunged into why at the edge of a thing will appear in a certain way if there's a certain haze at distances, you, if you know what I'm talking about. I don't. But I remember there was this kind of a thing. When they go into the descriptions of what their analysis was revealing and the thermography, thermographic, you know, effects around the ship or the ship itself having at the base of it, it was a hotter kind of an energy whatever. And that's again, that's freely available stuff. And people who are photographers, like, you have a go at it if you want, and then you'll understand it better. I never got that focused in it.
- [71:21]
Chris
Yeah. Like, when it comes to like thermal thermography, they're just measuring how hot the light source is, not how not actual heat. Because you would need thermal cameras for that. You would need to actually be able to detect heat source where they're probably just looking at where the brightest light source is and how that is dissipating across the craft and to determine if that's the sun and if so, how big is the object compared to the sun and whatnot.
- [71:46]
Michael Horn
Fair enough.
- [71:47]
Chris
Yeah, sure.
- [71:47]
Michael Horn
As I say.
- [71:49]
Chris
But even to address like the sort of glowing of the craft at night and not to go back there, but you know, there is halation as well that we have to keep in mind where this sort of effect happens. If there's a very bright object, it'll give off a light. And if you bring it into Photoshop and bring it down to see, you'll see an aura, quote, unquote. But that might just be a natural effect of the film itself or the lens in this case.
- [72:21]
Michael Horn
Yeah, I do.
- [72:22]
Chris
Okay. So now that we witnesses. So there's been some witnesses, five other photographers.
- [72:30]
Michael Horn
That's something. And I. I'd have to dig into where, because I remember they posted photographs taken by somebody that went by the name Pilger or something. Der Pilger, the village. I don't know. And he was a skeptic who had also sent Billy some very nasty stuff. And he one day contacts Billy and says, listen, may I come and meet with you? I have some photographs here. And Billy said, of course, this is back in the day and neighbors and all. And he said, listen, I will apologize. You know, I've been a little harsh, but I was out in the field the other day, or evening, whatever it was, and I had my camera and I. And I took these photographs and I saw this thing. He's not the only one. There were people who were workers from Turkey who were working on the road. One man was quite skeptical and quite nasty towards and he couldn't handle what he saw. And he apparently actually committed suicide. This is in the documentation. There's a lot of this but anyhow, in terms of witnesses and things that have happened from that other photographers and the people, what they did, who they were, how old they were when the photographs were taken or when the sightings were made, they're very thorough with that. So you can chase.
- [73:50]
Chris
Okay. All right, let's move on to some of the more sort of prophetic, if you will, messages that Billy was apparently given by these alleged extraterrestrials. Now, just to be clear, these beings that Billy speaks of are from the Pleiades.
- [74:12]
Michael Horn
No, no, not what we see in the night sky, because there's no life in the Pleiades. There's no conditions for habitation, and it is about 500 light years beyond in what would they call the Pleiars? And it's an altered time space configuration. Good luck. I explain that. You'll understand it better. I've just never been able to totally lock in. I've got to understand this time space shifted thing.
- [74:40]
Chris
No, would be much easier for Billy just to say they're Pleiadian.
- [74:43]
Michael Horn
It would be, but. Right, well, but, you know, the fact is he knows there's no life in the creation.
- [74:48]
Chris
That's very interesting.
- [74:49]
Michael Horn
He. He knows what all the channels don't know.
- [74:52]
Chris
Right.
- [74:53]
Michael Horn
And there's some.
- [74:54]
Chris
Is there anyone out there who you consider to possibly be legitimate? I know we'd mentioned briefly Ashtar and the Ashtar Command and you know, the whole Adamski Dan Fry, you know, that whole era in the 50s, in the early 50s, I mean, that was a. That was a hot topic. A lot of people jumped on that bandwagon. Everyone from, you know, the sort of stranges account with the stranger at the Pentagon, Valiant Thor. Valiant Thor, that's right. We have so many of these encounters. There was even a couple sisters that had published something. They were taken aboard as well. And, you know, it all seems so, I don't know, idealistic and not unlike the messages that Billy was receiving, by the way. It is idealistic. It is sort of like this logical sort of, you know, a little more on the love and light side that we, you know, we see in this the brothers, the space brothers. But it seems like the 50s, especially the 50s, but also the 60s and 70s, was kind of rampant with this, you know, I'm from Venus, I'm here to, you know, shut down the nukes and that type of deal. Is any of that legitimate?
- [76:13]
Michael Horn
You spoke about the Ashtar Command. This was one of the more interesting things to me early on, finding information there. And what was explained is that there are at that time there was a race, there were beings, humans, based underneath the great pyramid at Giza. And what was said, some of what was said, this is a splinter group that actually diverged from the source group that the Plearen people came from, which was originally in the constellation of Lyra, or Lyra, however they want to pronounce it, Lyrans, Lyrians, what have you. And these original Lyrans were very large people, highly technologically developed, kind of also at the same time, Star wars on steroids, warrior types running around because they could doing enslaving, blowing things up. They had.
- [77:14]
Chris
These weren't feline, by the way.
- [77:16]
Michael Horn
No human fully.
- [77:18]
Chris
You get that. Also, if you're out there looking at Lyrons and stuff, a lot of people are like, oh, these are the cat people from Lyra. Okay, we're not talking about.
- [77:25]
Michael Horn
Or from the constellation of Leo. People from Leo and Orion were. Well, that's a separate thing about pyramids. So it is said that these people referred to as the Giza intelligences or the Batha, which was a name that was apparently of. Their peoples had an agenda. They had very high technology and they would like to participate in enslaving everybody on the planet. They weren't large enough in numbers. They had numbers, but nothing that could overwhelm us. So what they were going to do is create a false second coming. They had a technology whereby in a form of telepathy, it's called telenautic. They could beam through existing radio, tv, wire, you know, any telegraphs, telephone. They could beam frequencies and direct them towards certain persons, so it said. And they had 745 or so important political and religious leaders under various influence, let's say influence could influence them. And they were also people who could influence and did influence a group called the Tulis Society. T H U L E Society. So what happened is these people recognized at a certain point part that Billy Meier was someone on the planet that would be an obstacle to their agenda. They knew that he was meeting with, let's say, the lighter side of the Plejaren. The Plejaren and they engineered some attacks on his life. There's some photographs of evidence for people can look and decide for themselves. There was one particular event where during a holiday season, I think it's in August in Switzerland, where there are cannons that are shot off. You know, Billy's living up in the. I guess it's called the Zurich highlands or something. And it's a very rural area and hills and valleys and all Churches and what have you. So the plan they had at this time was to eliminate him. I'm going to leave that for a moment to explain the interaction that he had that was very connected to the Giza intelligences. And this was with his, these are
- [79:58]
Chris
all in his contact reports, by the way, what you're saying now. Okay, yeah, okay, I got some follow up questions here because that's, you know, obviously as soon as we talk about pyramids and under the pyramids. Now we're touching on something that a lot of people talked about recently, but was obviously talked about years ago by Billy 1953.
- [80:17]
Michael Horn
And it is interesting as you say it, because there's a lot of infer he published that. It was one of the earlier things that I had access to that had me riveted. He's underneath. So the story goes that his second contact person, after 11 years of being tutored by Svath, Svath is know he's going to pass out of life. And he says, you will meet your next teacher. She and blah blah. And you know, he's oh, okay, female. And she's more advanced in knowledge than I am in certain things. He says, and she will guide you for the next 11 years. So sure enough, he passes away. And shortly thereafter, very quickly, he hears a woman's voice speaking to him in his head. And the arrangement for them to have their first meeting is made. No. And she is indeed, she's telling him. She's also giving him prophecies about things and predictions as early as 1953. She tells him about the assassination in America of two brothers who will be running for president. The date that it'll happen. John Fitzgerald Kennedy will be killed in Dallas, Texas on this day. And there's information about that assassination a bit. And then the assassination of his brother Robert Kennedy, and then a whole laundry list of kings and people who. She unloads a lot of stuff on him. And that's published, you can look at it.
- [81:40]
Chris
Published before the assassination.
- [81:43]
Michael Horn
Yeah, I mean, yes, he gets all that and he's taken it down. Now I've got to double check the actual dates of publication on it. And people can say, well, if, if you can't prove it was.
- [81:54]
Chris
But I mean, if you can.
- [81:55]
Michael Horn
Yes, if you can. Well, we can.
- [81:57]
Chris
I mean that's, that's interesting.
- [81:58]
Michael Horn
I'll pop it here in that I'm ju jumping for a reason to address this point. In 1987, Billy is given something called the henoch prophecies. Henoch being, I guess the German version of Enoch or at least the way the play Aaron pronounced it. And in there there's a lot of predictions about things that subsequently happened. Well, how do we know he didn't backdate this? After all, it's in German, supposedly in 87, but the first English is in 2002, I think. And it talks about the destruction of the World Trade center. But that happened in 2001. He could have backdated it. I go, sure, he could have. But we have to look a little deeper, don't we? We have this document, this entire document with all these things, it's like 300, I think, specific things. Now one of the things that jumped out for me and I'm, I'm deliberately jumping here and how the, the way these are, if these people exist, they're not stupid, they understand and they deliberately, even according to them, do certain things that will not be. You can't just darn. I can prove that for sure. Certain photographs. What. But that's got to be. Well, you'll have to figure it out how that was done. And that's. Maybe the WCUFO might be there. So the destruction of the WTC by terrorists in 2001 is, is in there. We also have a couple other earlier things than 2001, 1989. He's also told again, terrorists will fly airplanes into these buildings. There's a conversation with Quetzal, one of the other ETs, man, that's a terrible thing. And he says, yes, there will be 3,000 people or so that will be killed. Okay, but the 1987 document, they earlier mentioned how. Well, I noticed that there was something in there about the Russians moving their troops to Arkhangelsk in northern Russia, Siberia, in preparation for their attacks against Scandinavia. Oh, that's rather interesting. So first of all, why would Russia be attacking Sweden, Norway, Finland, going back in here's from the 80s, of course, we're told that this document actually was created thousands of years ago by the prophet Enoch. Enoch. Okay, well, but what. And at that time I'm. Quetzel says, I'm giving you the, the names of things that are what is referred to in this document. Because there was no Russia by name. Okay. He says, wait a minute, I'm looking at this. Why these attacks? Well, that became clearer within the last, let's say two years. Why? Norway, Sweden, Finland all joined NATO. Inviting NATO to these borders and coming in. And when you start reading Regulus News about Russia and NATO and Scandinavia and all this stuff, you start to see that there's a lot of Things that we. That's kind of interesting. Well, it became more interesting when in 2011, Russia moved and created bases in Arkhangelsk. Military bases in Arkhangelsk. 2011 was also a year in which I went and visited Billy, and we were making a film where we have, like, 50 of these prophecies in the film, I may have given you that clip. And he also spends some time after the main filming of Questions and Answers. And all he talks about, oh, yes, the Arctic. I don't know if this is official yet, he says, but there's going to be the vying for power and control at the Arctic, and eventually, he says, at the Antarctic, but at the Arctic, Russia, Canada, the US And China or Great Britain or whatever, all these countries are going to be pushing for control of mineral. He goes on, and on the film clip, you see him, I keep saying, I'm not sure. We have to check if it's official yet. No, it hadn't happened yet. But in 2011, the Russians had moved their troops there. And that is when, within a year's time, I had sent the information to a man I had known for 50 years, physicist, physician, retired, who did not believe this case that I was involved in was even remotely real, although he allowed himself to be interviewed for a film I put out in 2012. Just generally speaking about extraterrestrial life in the universe. Yes. Speaking as a physicist, with these things, if these are present, there's no reason why they wouldn't be present to some degree, you know, he carries on about certain elements in human being would be required to have. But then he. After I send him this information, he says, bring your camera. I have to change something here. Because he had thought that Billy must be, like, crazy person. And he said. He goes and says, billy Meyer is not a schizophrenic. He's not a crazy lunatic. He says, I was in the American military and I was stationed overseas, and we flew flights over this area, reconnaissance. It's under cloud cover for a great part of the year. And he says, what Billy is saying here is a strategy. He says, most people don't understand the Russians, but this would make sense in terms of a staging area not only for Scandinavia, but to come through Alaska, bisect, come through Canada, come into the US if they were going to come across the frozen straits, whatever there. And he said, look, watch what this man is saying. This man is about peace. And he's saying things that our military, our government should listen to. And he's not a dangerous person. You know, he did a 180. And this is a guy who really, you know, gave me the. It's nice to see you after 30 years. But what are you doing with this stuff? So that was his take. That was based on his experiences in the area where he thought strategically. Oh gosh, strategic. Why didn't I wonder? Okay, so Billy then does this thing about the mineral rights. And within a well recently, in the past couple years, within the past two years for sure, there has been this stuff in the news, as a matter of fact, that attracted the attention of a man named Clayton Morris in the US who has a show redacted, who had interviewed me a couple times on Billy Myers evidence and all this. And he started to look into this material and he puts out a clip saying, you know about the. This, by the way, Billy Meyer. Billy Meyer wrote about this. It's copyrighted. His texts are, you know, I'm going, okay, Clayton, keep going. You know, and as he had when the thing with the pyramid came up and he's talking to a guy who was talking about the researchers, they found, you know, the great spaces underneath the pyramid on. And Clayton says, well, Billy Meier wrote about that in 1953.
- [89:30]
Chris
Let's talk about that again, because that's where we started. Yeah, we jumped around a little bit, but let's get back to that. There was this secret faction in the 70s that was under the pyramids that was kind of a defactor from the Pleiaran in sort of this like darker version of them that wanted to enslave mankind. They're living under the pyramids, currently controlling world leaders or manipulating them, influencing them. So what happens there?
- [89:57]
Michael Horn
Ah, yes. This is where the juice of the matter. Thank you for bringing me back to that. So Ascat and Billy, I think it's
- [90:05]
Chris
Aset being the new teacher.
- [90:06]
Michael Horn
New teacher.
- [90:07]
Chris
Okay, are.
- [90:09]
Michael Horn
She picks him up and they go to Egypt, they leave the ship and they go to the pyramids. And somehow she knows where this entrances that goes. You can walk way deep down, but they also had devices that would render them not visible, out of phase with our, you know, visual spectrum. And I, maybe they're. They were not communicating past the point they entered. From what I understood, they were communicating strictly telepathic, you know, conversations telepathically. And this is something that Billy supposedly was capable of doing since he was taught by Svath as a child. Okay. So they're walking down these steep corridors, stairs, corridor staircases and all. And he says we had to silently pass by these beings that were Standing there, armed kinds of things, and ask us, explaining that they're not people, these are robotic guards. And they would kill anything that could come down there. That's how they were programmed. And they finally get down into the. The belly of the beast, so to speak. And I think was one to two kilometers below the. The pyramid. And he says, we enter this huge room, a space very high and big room that has been somehow created under the ground here. And in this space there is a large craft. There's a large, what we would call UFO or spaceship or what have you, huge and smaller craft. And then Ascat directs his attention to a kind of a. Like a stage or a platform that extends for little ways because on it it has enough space for what Billy is saying, oh, my gosh, that's the cross of the crucifixion. And there is the Spear of Destiny, the crown of thorns, the bloody nails. These are the artifacts from the crucifixion. And she says, no, they are not. They were made by these people. But if your scientists on Earth would test them, they would carbon date that period of time. She says, you know, certainly the crown of thorns, the crucifixion, the cross of the crucifixion, which was not this. It's a Y shaped cross. This is explained in the material how that crucifixions actually worked at the time, but that would be already turned to dust. Not, you know, more than likely. Now there's, there's wooden artifacts that have survived, but they're saying no, that one would be gone because of the, whatever, the time, the way people would treat these things at the time. And that is evidence that would be called up by a man named Reinhold Schmidt. I think it was actually O. Reinhold Schmidt. Reinhold O. Schmidt, who was, quote unquote, a corn merchant from California who has been under the telenautic control of this ba f. He believes he's been on the board of craft, which he has never been, because they create what are called real visions. And Billy was explained and demonstrated what real visions are. He's described as. It's like, oh, well, how did we get here? Suddenly she says, we're not really where you think we are. This is a real vision and to all appearance through the perceptions and senses of the human being. They would be in a given room or out somewhere in a space, and everything would be very real to them. But they would be sitting somewhere under a complete. We could call a hypnotic. It's telenautic control. Until they're brought out of it, they could be given information. This is what's being done.
- [94:01]
Chris
Like a Manchurian Candidate type, high tech,
- [94:04]
Michael Horn
real high tech, where they. And at a given point in time, the intention was that this man would come forward, he would been implanted with information. People will love that word, I'm sure, because in effect, what other word could we say he would fully believe this. He would be able to say things and present evidence and produce the artifacts from the Second Coming. Because the agenda here was to bring people, human beings of Earth together under one religion, world religion, control. So these people, the Bafoth, had that agenda. That was the thing. And they wanted to get rid of Billy Meier. Fast forward to a holiday in August, sometimes in maybe 25 years later, because this. Billy's learning all this stuff in 53 now we're about 78 or 75, whatever it is. When they're having this event in Switzerland, the cannons are going off and the Bafath had put a ship in motion towards the center, the farmhouse that Billy renovated where everybody lives and works from. And above it though, because the playara knew this was coming. They have screened from visible or any form of detection, one of their craft right above the center, the Baph craft comes over and they're synchronizing to when a cannon goes off in the valley. They're going to send a sonic attack beam down to hopefully detonate, blow up a water heater, whatever, something. The place would be like exploded and everybody in there, including and especially Billy, would be killed. Except what happens is that the blast from that goes down that umbrella, that bell that the ship is, you know, letting it flow down and hits the ground. Now technically at this point, the Plejaren have been attacked and they are non aggressive, but they defend themselves appropriately, depending on the nature of any kind of an attack. And in this case, they send their ship to. They get a hold of that ship, they eliminate. It was robotically controlled and they go prepared for this. They remove this whole host of people from underneath and they close in and basically leave no trace of their well headquarters. Now this is not all that unusual. The Pleiaran, another group, did this on Mars when they. Ah, it's another story for another time.
- [96:42]
Chris
Okay, well, wouldn't it be easier to just like, if you were going to assassinate this man, to just like appear in his room and just like snuff him out?
- [96:51]
Michael Horn
They may not have had that ability personally, as some like the Plearen, maybe, I do not know. But also, I cannot presume. I mean, look, enough people have tried to kill Billy that certainly they appear where he's. They know where he's going to be walking. And Billy, in our first film, Silent Revolution, he shows a metal plate that he had put in an agenda book and you know, secured inside behind his jacket because he had dreamt the night
- [97:23]
Chris
before he would get shot, he would
- [97:24]
Michael Horn
be shot when he goes to. Hits a certain point on the road and this is where the bullet would hit. And the person did appear and shot and disappeared and later contacted him. To Billy, strange things to say. I am the person that did that. I would like to apologize. And Billy said, well, you can come over. We're not going to call the police or anything in New York. And they met some of this. You just, you can read it and you can go nah, or yeah, who knows? Or whatever. But Billy has, I mean, he's defended himself against, as I think I may have mentioned, there was someone in the bushes with a long gun who shot at him and missed. And Billy was carrying, packing one of his weapons. And we show his weapon cabinet is pretty impressive. Jack says to him, when Billy's pulling out these weapons, he says in Germany asks him, isn't that a bit aggressive? And Billy says, no. And this is my Bulldog revolver and this is my Kalashnikov. And you know, when you see his image from being the phantom in the Middle east, and he's got the Arab headdress, he's got the Swiss jacket, and he's packing a 30s, a.357 Magnum and a knife and all. And this is the guy who was bringing in serial killers and mass murderers without harming them. I mean, maybe he wounded them. If they shot. He never, he said to me one day, it was, it was actually cute. I never killed anybody. I. If they shot at me, I wound them so the authorities could come and take them. And indeed, somebody had managed to put a slug through what was his left arm at that. Early on there. There are things that are a little strange. There are people who have witnessed and attested to things like, well, Billy was bringing the tractor. We were going to move the cast iron stove that had been delivered. And then Billy stopped the tractor near it or something and he sat in it. And then the stove came up in the air and came over and it settled down. There's a lot of stuff that Billy did in the past, occasionally showing off a little bit. And he was told at a certain point, or he knew.
- [99:46]
Commercial/Announcer
What do you mean?
- [99:47]
Chris
That he had telekinetic ability. Yes, Billy did.
- [99:51]
Michael Horn
He had a Lot of abilities, really, accordingly. I mean, this is for, you know, this is the. The stuff that this was.
- [99:58]
Chris
This was. Yeah, this was sort of. Well, I mean, obviously it bedazzles people because I think has to be out there. I mean, it's complete. It's completely magical. Like, why. How. How would that occur? Was he bestowed ability or he earned his ability?
- [100:13]
Michael Horn
For instance, there was a woman who said something about Billy was over here in the house sitting down. It was something she determined, here he is. And she said. She went out and walked out back, and he was sitting there and he had not passed her. He did some of this. Some little tricks for people occasionally early on, because he could. But that was. He had to not do that past a certain point. And let's. I mean, Billy's got some kind of abilities. One of the more recent assassinations, he steps out and he sees somebody and he stands there and a bullet comes. And he had put a water bottle in a shirt pocket, and he stood there, apparently, and the bullet hits them. It doesn't. He's. It's like Billy is an unusual human being who has had the most painful. You have your arm ripped off your body and all of your teeth smashed at the same time, and you're delirious for 30 days because they amputate what remains of your arm without anesthetic. And. And you're walking around shooting into the air at imaginary things. And yet you've been able to, as a child, be taken and shown things and allowed to be in a craft on your own to go places and stories. Oh, can't be. Okay, but is it about proving that, or do we. Like you said, if this stuff. This could stop many people over here from going any farther into the material. This could. Some people just go, oh, wow, I want to know more, you know, and bypass it. This is what it. It is what it is. And it's up to each person to decide with. At the current counting, 928 public contact reports. Yeah. For the public. Many others. Just private information between him and them. And when you go through. What they did was so clever in these reports, and I saw this early on, they not only number each of these contact reports. Meeting. This is our official meeting. 09:28 Contact report. They number every sentence that the extraterrestrials
- [102:31]
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- [102:48]
Michael Horn
How?
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- [103:03]
Michael Horn
Hear that? That's the sound of busy. To a restaurant, all that shouting and banging might as well be a symphony. It means the long day is and longer nights are paying off. Sure, it's noisy, but there's a worse sound. This not busy. Busy means business, which is why Toast gives restaurants the tools and tech they need to help them perform under pressure. Sounds pretty good, right? Toast built for busy so that you
- [103:34]
Chris
can go and verify it.
- [103:35]
Michael Horn
Yes, because they knew they're going to start giving him information about things and people are going to say, oh, you've obviously backdated it. But you see, they published starting in German, then it gets to English and Italian and other languages every contact. 2:15. Sentence one. Yeah, sentence one.
- [103:54]
Chris
You can also reference, like, if you have a question, be like, wow, see section 115 of whatever.
- [103:59]
Michael Horn
Yes, that's all there too. And you know, it's like people said, well, he's backdated this year. That I said, that's why when I come back to the Hanoch prophecies in the wtc, oh, it'd be easy to say, well, he backdated it because that happened a year earlier than the first English publication was. Yeah, but what about the information about Russia moving its troops to Arkhangelsk? And what about one of the final items in that whole prophetic argument about in the future, Switzerland, the land of peace and neutrality, is going to make a big mistake. They will abandon their true neutrality and align themselves and work with the UN and or NATO, which will open them to being ultimately attacked and invaded by the powers from the east, meaning China and Russia, when those things happen. While Switzerland will be very safe for a long period of time. But no, this is. And they published that book, I think, in 2004. It's in there. And all these things that you can go through and go, wait a minute. And there's other things that weren't necessarily so glamorous here and there, but they were foretelling events and those events have occurred.
- [105:22]
Chris
Do you think there is a sense of, like, confirmation bias here where there is so much literature that you can. And I'm asking because I know this will be asked and this will be mentioned as well, but because there is so much literature in these thousand or so contact cases or contact reports that. That you can kind of cherry pick, you know, because it would seem like, you know, if. I'll give you a practical example of this. You have these fake mediums on. On television. Yeah, exactly. And what they do is that they'll. They'll hit you with. With a bunch of facts. Who hit you with a bunch of, like, keywords, buzzwords, and I'll throw things out there. Yeah. And when something clicks, then they go down that road, and they go down that road. And in retrospect, you look at this and you go, oh, my God, they were right about this, this, this, this, this.
- [106:18]
Michael Horn
But what about.
- [106:19]
Chris
But then you Forget all the Mrs. Right? You forget all the things they. They were wrong about. And that's part of, like, human psychology of. Of our brains and its ability to pattern match. Right. And to recognize connection. And so do you think that there's any. Any of that? Like, have you ever found stuff in his reports that you. You thought, oh, this is completely, utterly wrong, like, 100%, like, false. Is there anything in there? Or.
- [106:46]
Michael Horn
No. And. But it doesn't mean it's not there. Let's be honest.
- [106:51]
Chris
Yeah, but you've not come across.
- [106:52]
Michael Horn
No. What. See here, the process for me, after I immersed myself into really reading and then rereading everything I could get my hands on because of a couple instances that jumped out of me after I had the, you know, UFO book where the 1800 pages that had been given to me by a guy actually who created a false career pretending he was an Andromedan contactee.
- [107:18]
Chris
Wonderful.
- [107:19]
Michael Horn
Yeah. Oh, great. I mean, muddy the waters, you know, I'm now Alex Collier. Wait a minute, I thought your name was Ralph Amigra. No, I'm an Andromedan contact. Is that why all of your predictions, every single one of them are wrong? Okay, we'll leave that for the moment, for an hour or two, whatever you want. But here's what happened.
- [107:37]
Chris
And we're not. We're not offending all the Andromedans out there. Just the one. Yeah.
- [107:41]
Michael Horn
Just the one who. Yeah, he's probably more from Orion. Yeah. So what happens here with this material? And it's fortunate that everything is numbered, what they say, because you can get these reference points. Oh, I kind of remember. It's in this kind of thing somewhere. All right, so what happens for me. And it still happens. Something appears in the news. Some. A couple things appeared in the news recently. One that appeared in the news. I'll just use it as an example because I had read it and I'd never noticed this news prior. It was. Maybe it was never of interest to me or it didn't appear back in the day. I guess it's. I'm not even sure of the exact date that the first. And you know, I'll know after this, I'll say I should have said that, but there was a conflagration in the Falkland Islands, right. Argentina and the UK had a dispute about it and all this stuff went down the Falklands. Well, it came and went in my memory, you knowledge banks, if I ever knew it at the time. But the interesting part about it was that subsequent to, I think subsequent to the conflagration or it's going to have been before it. In 1982, Billy gives a radio interview with an English speaking man on a Swiss radio station network or something. The guy sounds like an American, perhaps it could have been some other. But at the very end of this thing, and we have all this online too, people can hear it. He asks Billy about the potential for a third world war. And Billy at this time is speaking pretty good English. This is before he had also an accident where he had a brain injury that he. I'll stick to the story. So here in 1982 and he's pretty good, although he gets a few words mixed up. He does. And this. He is asked Will about a third we were rolling. Billy says, yes, that is going to happen. It cannot be avoided. It's certainty, it's a prediction. And this is pretty early on. And the guy says, well, Billy, can you, can you tell us more about who's involved? He says well, I don't know if I should have. He says let us decide about that. Just tell us what you know about this. And he's. And I'm trying to remember the sequence. He says, well, it's going to be the big attacks, conflict between the UK and Russia and other countries involved will be Iran, Israel, Iraq and the Falklands. The Falklands, 1982. So within about the last week to 10 days, there was an article that passed something in the American news about Trump. There's some issue, he's got an issue with NATO and there's something about the Falklands has come up again. I'm going, oh my gosh, it never stops point being here. Things that those of us who've been researching this material, you can't remember everything. But there are things that when something comes in the news that Seems like. Oh, isn't there now? I have also gone to look. I think this must be in the market. It wasn't, but I've.
- [111:14]
Chris
You found the interview?
- [111:15]
Michael Horn
Yeah. Nothing. Well, no, it's more like there may be a discovery or an incident somewhere. And it seems to me. Oh, I'll bet you Billy had foretold that. No, he didn't. But then I start to see the things that we've gathered and I think we're over 250 to 300 specific error free examples. In other words, when something can be evaluated for accuracy. Let's just say that something comes up and Billy's talked about it, but what comes up is completely contrary to whatever he'd predicted.
- [111:55]
Chris
Sure.
- [111:56]
Michael Horn
And I have to go, well, that's a miss, you know, or how did he get that so wrong? Well, he's a human being.
- [112:01]
Chris
Yeah. It seems to be that the things he's foretelling, at least the things that you've noticed have been accurate.
- [112:07]
Michael Horn
Yeah. Here's one. In 2006, I'm in Switzerland standing and talking with Billy and I said to him, the question is almost exactly this. Billy fundamentally, was the Iraq war about oil? I'm leading. Of course he's going to say it was. What does he say to me? He lifts his finger. Fundamentally. No, it's about your dollar and if things go a certain way, you may as well roll cigarettes with your paper money. He's just riveting me with it, or I don't know at the time what the hell he's talking about. But I put the video up, it's up there from 2007, I posted it and I've been watching the trend economically, the petrodollar. Everything that's going on now in the world now is helping to say negatively influence the value of the petrodollar. On top of that, as early as 46, 48, his teacher, and he's written this all down and there's numbers, is talking about how a megalomaniacal Hitler like dictator will arise in the US who will be just full of himself, an incompetent leader who will cause great trouble in the world. And in his delusions of grandeur about himself, he will start to make trouble. And he mentions Persia, China, Russia and other countries. He will threaten them. He will create problems in the seas and barricades and tariffs, foolish illogical tariffs to punish people. There's a lot of this.
- [113:58]
Chris
When Was this written?
- [114:00]
Michael Horn
46 in 19.
- [114:02]
Chris
Yeah, 46.
- [114:03]
Michael Horn
Yeah, it's 46, 46 and 48.
- [114:06]
Chris
And he was talking about things like this. That's absolutely. I mean, it does, it does seem to pattern match, obviously. But I would also, you know, I would also say that, like, if you're, if you're speaking to these beings and these beings are telling you these things which do sound prophetic, like in, in the sentence structure. I mean, yeah, they, they have a sort of a generalized tone to them, is like, oh, there will be this person in the, you know, but why don't you just name names? Like, if, if you're that certain, why don't you just say, oh, well, Donald Trump is the guy.
- [114:39]
Michael Horn
Or like, there's a reason for that.
- [114:40]
Chris
What's the reason? What's the reason there?
- [114:42]
Michael Horn
Look, let's say they publish that the guy's going to be a year old, whatever it is in front of, they're going to then start influencing people in a direct way where they are going to interfere. Now, they also know that this is going to be obscure, and not that it's esoteric, but it's going to be
- [115:03]
Chris
disregarded for the most part.
- [115:04]
Michael Horn
For the most part, it's going to be disregarded, ridiculed. And everything else they did in the earlier days, in the 70s, for instance, they would tell him the names, they gave him the names of kings. This king is going to be assassinated, this man will be assassinated. And they will think it's from this, but it will be.
- [115:28]
Chris
And they gave names.
- [115:29]
Michael Horn
Yes, but it will be the Israeli Mossad. They said it. They said their secret service, which like many times has been and will be behind troubles in your world, they will cause trouble here. And they say in retaliation for the terrorism of the Israelis, there will be terrorism from the Hamas and the Hezbollah. So that is not to say that those don't produce terrorists. It's just we could say, because in this material, and this is something that got me early on, when I read it, early on when they were speaking about things, I literally thought, wait a minute, are these Nazis from outer space?
- [116:08]
Chris
They're. They're pretty anti Israel.
- [116:10]
Michael Horn
No, they're. I don't. I guess you could say. But what. Because they tend to speak in a factual way, for the most part, and including about things Billy can get very.
- [116:25]
Chris
They're not against the people, they're just against an. A situation.
- [116:28]
Michael Horn
Yes. And about. Against those who are part of the population who will do these things. And they sometimes go to pains to say, this is not about all of the Palestinians or all of the Israelis, but it is that faction that has this agenda and that will bring, you know, no peace to the world.
- [116:47]
Chris
If you were some type. The thing is like, I mean, obviously people are going to jump to this as well, because this is where my mind's going, I feel like. But like, if you were being given prophetic messages and you believe these messages to come from extraterrestrials, do you think that there is some type of world where he is being sort of fed information from terrestrial means that are, like, psyoping him? Because all of these things seem like, you know, someone's agenda. They're like, no, these guys are the bad guys, These guys are the good guys. You gotta side with these guys. You gotta watch out for this.
- [117:22]
Michael Horn
It isn't put that way because. And this is where I was saying on the. Are these Nazis from aristocracy? Not from that so much as the earlier material where they talk about the histories of different peoples. And these people did this, and those people were doing back long ago.
- [117:37]
Chris
This is Switzerland right after Nazi Germany. And he's getting messages saying, like, we gotta watch out for Israel. Is that like.
- [117:43]
Michael Horn
Well, but he also.
- [117:44]
Chris
It seems a little close to home.
- [117:45]
Michael Horn
It could be. And some, you know, people can feel sensitive about that, but they are equal opportunity offenders. I mean, really, this is what I did come to learn. Because also, when they start talking about things like, America is behind most of the problems of the world and the terrorism that has emanated from their seeking hegemony, worldwide control, as it's been since the inception of that country, Whoa, that'll set you back on your heels. But they've also described the origin of the Israelis. And they've gone to, you know, Israelites to say they never were a people. They were peoples who came together under the influence of. Of an extraterrestrial whose name was known then as Jehovah. And they had information on a lineage of extraterrestrials, ARUS 1 and ARAS 2 and Jehovah and other names. And many of these were connected with the Giza intelligences. This is a thread that when you pull it, the sweater starts unraveling. So people. I understand the tendency. People will jump on a thing. I jumped on things. And then I read more and I read more and I read more. And I started to see the balance here. This I'm getting. The intention here is that we dig into learning about our world, not just what the people are, what we're getting through the news. I mean, nowadays more people are asking questions, but even in our country, we don't get certain news that you may get In Switzerland or you may get in Morocco or you may not. We all know there's manipulation and what they have foretold about what's coming, the manipulation. When Billy in 1958 speaks about first America and then the EU, which didn't exist yet in 58 will biochip every man, woman and child on the face of the planet to control them so well that their every movement to the meter, to the inch can be determined and controlled. 1958. And when he in 1958 also says that the people. That things will develop so that the people will lose their ability to determine the truth, their eyes will no longer be able to know if what they're looking at is real. It will be so effective.
- [120:08]
Chris
The deceptions, I mean we had. We had George Orwell as well, you know, speak of similar things and Isaac Asimov and like we had like a lot of literary sort of giants talk about.
- [120:20]
Michael Horn
Yeah. And people who had foresight and forevision about things. And it's just that the volume specificity and so far error free. Unfortunately, I don't see that record. Now there's a woman, what was her name? Baba van Blavatsky? No, Baba Vanya.
- [120:43]
Chris
Oh, the. Yeah. The prophet wasn't. Prophet, yeah.
- [120:46]
Michael Horn
Edgar Casey, who had certain abilities. And Billy had said Edgar Cayce was a genuine seer. It was an interesting form of a kind of a schizophrenia whereby only in this state when he'd go to sleep or what he could see. And his specialty, I think was mainly medical things. Mainly. And some things he got very right about a num. You know, many things he had this ability. So Meier, it's not like I'm the only one who can do these things. He even said that with Nostradamus, he says people don't interpret correctly. Some of the things that they think either have happened or are happening are still futural with Nostradamus prophecies. And when you see, when you get into reading, when Billy starts opening up and starts teaching about things, you go, okay, I think after maybe the 8th or 10th read, I'll get all this together because this is. There's obviously this is logic. I don't recognize what this information. There is another level there now. There are people that are, you know, we have people that contribute to our blog. I think they're smarter than I am easily and that they're so. So erudite and so able to reference so many things that when we post a blog, when we post contact report or something, they've got that encyclopedia and it's terrific because some of the things I say. Oh yeah, I know that I don't remember that. I never even read that. Contact and all. Thank goodness so many people can source on this and that's what makes it so interesting because they also see these aspects and the reasoning why something. Well, this makes sense now, why they would have told him that at this time. Look at this in light of that
- [122:42]
Chris
I'm following and I think it's definitely interesting and worth looking into more specifically to try and at least find some inconsistencies and therein, if you can't, then hey, that's even better. You know, what I would also say is that there are similar prophetic, sort of very in depth, intellectual and stimulating ontological, philosophical messages that have been given through other channels specifically, and I use that term very specifically, but raw contact or the raw material, they speak similarly about things. And recently there was a documentary about Puharich that came out and sort of, you know, the nine and the teachings of the nine. These were the nine people that he had which were channeling these beings or whatnot. But the messages seem to all coincide. They're not conflicting on very many things. They're pretty logical and for the most part coherent and friendly and understandable. But yesterday we spoke about. I had asked you, why Billy, what's going on here? Why won't P or some Yazzie or any of these beings just come to the podcast, come sit down, have a chat, let the world know. No one's going to believe him anyway, so what's the harm in it, right? And then you said, well, Billy was special.
- [124:20]
Michael Horn
The colonels cooked up a new $10
- [124:22]
Chris
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- [124:29]
Michael Horn
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- [124:31]
Chris
Thursday 8 tenders for $10. Friday 24 nuggets for.
- [124:36]
Michael Horn
Oh, you guessed it, didn't you?
- [124:38]
Chris
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- [124:42]
Michael Horn
every weekday only at KFC.
- [124:44]
Chris
It's finger l licking Good prices and participation.
- [124:46]
Michael Horn
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- [124:49]
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Michael Horn
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- [125:51]
Michael Horn
Well, I mean, as soon as we say special, we think there's an exalted status there.
- [125:57]
Chris
Well, there kind of is with him because you had said that, you know, he follows like this sort of long lineage of prophets and that they've delivered these messages to, you know, all of the. He is like the seventh one, seventh and final person. Seventh and final person. Right. So there is this lineage of almost royalty. Like there is, there is the chosen one aspect to this.
- [126:21]
Michael Horn
We're leaving something out. Okay, let's say somebody's quote, unquote, there were in this material, if I correct, there was a few other people potentially who could have done this gig. Possibly. I think there was one or two who were made aware of it somehow who declined it, some who may have died, whatever. So here's this guy is, you know,
- [126:47]
Chris
who were the ones before?
- [126:49]
Michael Horn
I don't know the name now, possibly because they didn't name who the woman was, but I think it could have been Madame Blavatsky. Possibly.
- [126:58]
Chris
But who are the ones prior? Oh, the prior, yes.
- [127:01]
Michael Horn
Well, you've got Enoch or Henoch, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Emmanuel. We'll get back there. Muhammad and Billy. Now this will drive some people crazy this way and the other way. So we know about, we've heard about Enoch, Elijah, Isaiah and Jeremiah. But let's also just for a moment stop before I answer the rest of it and say, you know, choosing back. We are in a world that since the early prophets and probably before anybody that stood out a little bit in a certain way. It's not like they are going to treat them especially kindly because they are going to come with material and information that isn't going to be welcome or there's no reason for them to come. Emmanuel was crucified. That's the name of the man according to the Meyer material, the real man who was falsely named Jesus Christ. Now, okay, wait a minute. So we go 7:14, Isaiah. And his name shall be called Emmanuel, not Jesus. Well, what about the New Testament? Matthew 1:23. And his name shall be called Emmanuel. How's that? Well, Billy Meyer, along with the Greek Orthodox priest, I think it's about 63, 64. Right in there telepathically are lid Story goes, the outskirts of Jerusalem, there's a hillside, a burn or a hillside, and at the base of it there's a hole in there. Now, Billy knows that this is something he's long been informed he will be involved with. The man that he is with is named or called Issa Rashid. He speaks some Middle Eastern languages. He also can read and write Aramaic and German. Interesting. Billy kind of knows where this little hole's going to be. And they had brought flashlights and the tools to dig and they dig their way in. Turns out to be an ancient tomb. From all appearances, they're familiar. Yeah, this is a tomb and there's stones on the floor. And Billy says we unearth until we find certain things. They start. It doesn't take them all that long. They find resin encrusted, animal wrapped, animal skin wrapped. Scrolls written in Aramaic. These are sheets of. I guess I don't know what the heck, but there's. They're considered scrolls. They're written in Aramaic. Billy does not read and write Aramaic. He knows what Issa is here for. And he says, okay, you will take this and translate please, and send me the translation. Issa. Rishi says, I'm on it, boss, or whatever. And off he goes. Billy goes back to Switzerland. And within about five or six years, something like that, he gets the first third or so of this doc, you know, this overall document. And Issa Rashid said, look, I've translated this much of it, but there are some powerful people in Jerusalem who know that I've got something of interest. I'm taking my family, we'll take the scrolls. We've got to get out of here. Story goes that he. That, you know, it includes in there. I will get in touch with you as soon as we are safe. They travel. They get into Lebanon, into a village in Lebanon. And there is a kind of. It's a refugee village or something. They have been invited to a home. Somehow they sequester the scrolls in a wall there for safety. Within one week, the Israelis pick up all the refugee villages. That one to breeze to the ground, burned, destroy every Week, Rashid and his family get out with their lives and themselves. The scrolls are gone. Oh, this has got the makings of a conflict, doesn't it? Billy doesn't hear from him further until something happens. And a few years later, I think it's around 74, he learns that Issa Rashid has and his family have been machine gunned to death in Baghdad, ostensibly by the Mossad. But Billy has received all of this stuff in German. Now he gets about as an editor, trying to make sure everything is lining up editorially. And he discovers later more that Issa Rashid had changed certain things based on his own religiosity. There were certain things in here that didn't fit with his beliefs. This is, you know, this is not easy. Space brothers stuff. Sure. Human beings, wherever they're involved, things can and will get screwed up. Yeah.
- [131:58]
Chris
As it probably already has with the Bible.
- [132:00]
Michael Horn
Oh, for sure. Well, all that stuff is written post events and changed, manipulated. So we said this is really about the real man whose name was changed to Emmanuel, from Emmanuel to Jesus Christ. We've got the Old Testament one mentioned. Billy didn't put it in there. Another mention in the New Testament. So this attracts the attention of a man named James Deardorf, professor of Comparative Religions, Oregon State University. And also I think it's meteorology. And he said, oh, I just heard about, oh, Bible hoax, let me add that one. And he goes and he digs into it a year or year and a half, whatever it is, comes out with a publication, his own book called Celestial Teachings. And according to what he was saying early on in the book, this Talmud Emmanuel is what it gets called, resolves over 350 inconsistencies in the book of Matthew, 150 of which were not even under discussion at the time this was published. And he says, I've gone through this. And he shows you line by line by line. It says this in Matthew, says this in the tj. It gets called the tj. Sometimes extremely similar, almost other times not. There's differences and they tend to be, as far as a biblical scholar is concerned, important differences.
- [133:29]
Chris
And also to people who, what differences stand out, do you know?
- [133:34]
Michael Horn
Well, this guy isn't floating up to the sky. And apparently, and I think it's within here, he knows that he will walk a very dangerous and dangerous bloody path here. And this is where in the prophecy section, chapter 25, as I recall, this is a huge book and I don't have it all in my head. He is excoriating the scribes and Pharisees, this stuff Made it into the, I think into the New Testament, didn't it? You, you know, generation of vipers and all this. And he's. But he goes farther. What isn't apparently mentioned in the Old Testament, in the Torah or the New Testament where he's saying to them, you have deceived and murdered your friends so that you could acquire their belongings. He's laying it out for them and he shaking his finger in their face saying Emmanuel is. Yeah. So he's, you know, the guy that could turn over the table in the temple. I think that may be in there. And he says in 500 years comes another true prophet who like me will carry the same teaching at this time. And unless your distant descendants and the distant descendants of this prophet whose name will be Muhammad can come to a just and conciliatory peace with each other, it will be a bloody time and few will survive. And there will be also a false and evil cult who will gather around this prophet and falsify his true teaching. And this is stuff, I mean Billy, Mr. Bullseye walking around. But he's published information what the real teaching of Muhammad was also contained in a book called the Goblet of the Truth along with the true teaching of the previous prophets. And it's essentially it shows you how the teaching is the same. And Muhammad didn't marry nine year old girls. He was a champion for the rights of women and a protector of women. He did not believe in a jihad where you go and start slaughtering your enemies. According to this information in the Meyer case and that his mission actually was to stem the rise and power of the Catholic Church which otherwise would have fully enslaved the world. I think we've heard of things like crusades and acquisitions and all of this stuff. And there's quite a bit of information in the Talmud then and in other writings of Billy. Especially if people read what Muhammad has supposedly spoken about. You're seeing consistency about the love and the peace and they speak about something. This is where the core of the case comes in. This is where Billy is the man, if you will. It is what was formerly called the spiritual teaching. And then Billy finally after decades says this is an incorrect word, spirit geist. This is even in German. Its origins speak about ghosts and no, this now is the time, you understand? This is the creation energy. Well, what are you talking about? There's no deities. None of the religions are founded on a true deity that created everything. And I even knew a guy who thought he was in touch with the so called Elohim creators Of all things. Okay, so there's no shortage of religions. There's 4,000, and there's certain very primary ones. And the ones that have, you know, the biggest recognition and following, they all basically stand on this premise. If you want to, you know, when we talk about things we believe or not, what's in this book is true, because this book says it's true. Sorry, folks, that's the evidence. You can say, but artifacts have been found. You'll be able to find artifacts throughout history and tales about them, some of which are right, some of which are not right. We're talking about something where this great cosmic reality in this teaching, and this teaching is true because the book says it's true. In the creation energy teaching, Billy is speaking about something that addresses the greatest existential questions in humankind. They've bothered me since I was 10 years old. They've probably bothered many people. But we have to push it on the back burner, because, as Billy said, the human brain is not greatly equipped to deal with. But here's how you can start to get educated, because I said, look, Billy, what's outside of space? How far does it go? How can there be nothing? How can there be nothing? And then how can something arise out of nothing? And that something kaboom. We have reality as we know it, or think we know it, or whatever. We have things in this reality that have different durations, different vibrational frequencies. This lasts longer maybe, than this does glass and metal. But things have a perfection. They have a duration. Science relies on certain things, and they can find out where these things change. And this goes on and on. For everything seen and unseen and almost everything that we see, with the exception of that which is natural, is idea made manifest by man. And the rest is idea made manifest by what? Well, you want to start attributing it to your God of love and mercy, who goes out and slays the Canaanites and tells the Israelites to slay 20,000 people, or in this other religion to do this. Where is the love and mercy? Well, when Billy starts talking about the teaching, which he didn't create and which is a teaching the Plejaren have access to and levels of it that we don't. If we can deal with the information at the level that it's intended, if you will, for our development, for our evolution, and Billy has said the meaning of life is the evolution of consciousness. Struggle with that one for a while. So instead of us lording it over others as the people connected to the Giza intelligences And the other gods did, oftentimes because they could and they played with the primitive humans. This creation is the source of all that exists. And if we want to begin to contemplate that and start to learn that there are immutable universal laws and our scientists know some of them, there's some other laws too, and there's many laws that if we start to understand the laws and the recommendations, things that are simply recommended for humankind. This is no punishment. This isn't about you're going to be dipped in hot lid for eternity once you pass out of this life unless you believe in me. There's none of that.
- [141:00]
Chris
Is there any merit in Billy's reports that reference the hermetic principles at all?
- [141:09]
Michael Horn
What would those principles be specifically?
- [141:11]
Chris
I think there's seven of them where everything is mental, like everything's, you know, in the mind type deal. I'll try to name them all, but I'll surely miss some. So everything is mental. There's a masculine and feminine to everything. Everything is in constant motion. Everything is so fluctuates like in waves. There is no opposite, only varying degrees of the same thing. And then there's two others that are eluding me. So yeah, around those lines, which seem to be what we're discovering in physics anyways, but is there anything similar?
- [141:54]
Michael Horn
Yeah, I'd say. But in saying that, I have to tell you that while I understand and I'm going to give you some comparables or whatever, I'm at a very early level of life, of understanding the teaching. We're all, no matter the bandwidth here between the lowest and highest on earth. Isn't that great? So for instance, Billy has written a phenomenal book called the Might of the Thoughts and How the Mind Works, how Thinking Works and things that we take for granted that are maybe backwards for some. In other words, we think that if we feel a certain way, we're going to think a certain way or whatever. Thoughts precede feelings. Most thinking is done below the conscious level. And if we take the time and trouble to become aware of this ongoing thinking process 24 7. We then learn to control the thoughts. We are aware that we're thinking and we're aware of what we're thinking. And in that responsibility is do we continue that train of thought, those thoughts, do we modify it? If so, which way do we take a different direction? Do we put a halt to that whole and, and, and, and.
- [143:16]
Chris
But you're talking like emotional alchemy or.
- [143:19]
Michael Horn
Well, it's more you could say even mental alchemy. Because this is done through the thinking process. And that is what leads us to feel certain things about things.
- [143:30]
Chris
Sure.
- [143:32]
Michael Horn
Think about it and start having feelings. And then there is another thought and a decision about action or inaction. That's this book. I mean, that's the junior kindergarten takeaway.
- [143:44]
Chris
Yeah. I realize there's a lot.
- [143:46]
Michael Horn
Oh, my gosh. He's written over 60 books and only maybe a dozen are translated into English. He's written about reincarnation, rebirth, death and dying, fluidal forces, swinging waves. Again, you can see certain things here that can be reflected as I'm seeing it, without understanding fully the hermetic teaching. Because there are people in the distant past, great philosophers.
- [144:14]
Chris
Rosicrucianism, you know, feels aligned with this a little bit as well. And.
- [144:19]
Michael Horn
Yeah, but there's things I'm sure that are really not. Because, remember, even in the world of disinformation, you get 20% of the truth and you wrap it in a lie. That was taught to me by a guy who passed away recently. A guy named Ed Dames, who used to be.
- [144:33]
Chris
I knew. I knew. I met Ed. I interviewed him.
- [144:35]
Michael Horn
I helped create his first technical remote viewing home study course.
- [144:41]
Chris
Really.
- [144:41]
Michael Horn
I worked with him over a period of time, bit more than a year.
- [144:44]
Chris
Did you ever. Did you ever.
- [144:46]
Michael Horn
I learned how to do that.
- [144:47]
Chris
Did you ever do any of the spooky targets that he was looking into?
- [144:51]
Michael Horn
Well, he taught me and two other people involved in the production team how to do it.
- [144:55]
Chris
Yeah.
- [144:55]
Michael Horn
And we could do it. And here's the funny story. It's a short story. I mean, he showed us and we were able to get the target. That was good. We were to go to Hawaii to do this production. And basically I had created the introduction between him and. And the guy who owned the production company. And I had. Because I'd listened to all of his appearances in Art Bell, and I thought, wow, this guy's got what I'd call an oral charisma. He's very engaging and he's saying a lot of things. Wow, this is really cool. So I arranged. I got in touch with him, I got. Put it together, and I said, hey, I think a cool way to do this is how you could teach this course on videotape. And basically, I really kind of helped design that. And we worked on it, and what we were to do is to go to this guy's studio in Hawaii and start the production. And I thought, I wonder what that guy is like. Took the piece of paper. Because remote viewing, you have a target and you Start by using pen to paper or pencil. Paper. What are you going to do? And I drew this oblong face and curly hair down the sides and square glasses and stuff, these features, I swear, if you will. We get there, the door opens up and this guy comes out. This guy comes out and I'm going, okay, that's pretty interesting. Did I ever go back to do that? No, because I don't want to fiddle around with that. You can make mistakes with these things. You can get it right there. People that are good, people that want. I learned it from Ed, and I learned certain things because there was a lawsuit. Then people sued each other, and I was expert witness for having studied all of his.
- [146:38]
Chris
There was some controversy in the remote viewing field. Now, sadly, Ed has passed away recently, may he rest in peace. But he was definitely charismatic. And, you know, I remember going out to dinner with him and my friend Nelson when we were down this journey looking into remote viewing, and he was just the most entertaining, charismatic person. Like, always got a joke and it's always. Always trying to make you laugh. Always had a story. He was talking smack. He was like. He was very confident in what he could do. But one thing that seemed to be, you know, very true about Ed was that undeniably he was a good at teaching remote viewing.
- [147:19]
Michael Horn
You're hitting.
- [147:20]
Chris
And a lot of people wanted to, you know, they wanted to slight him for so many reasons and because, you know, he had. He was a bit of a loudmouth. He was like. He was, you know, he had gumption, and he didn't care about what he said. He's like, this is the way it is. You know, he was in the army, and that's kind of. And. And that ticked a lot of people off, I think. And so I think people got, you know, on his back for that. But one thing that you can deny is that, like, the students that came from Ed were some of the best remote viewers. You know, they had, like, some of the best teachings and stuff, according to Ed.
- [147:52]
Michael Horn
Yeah, okay. I was. I got called in this lawsuit by. I guess I was. He. Did he do the suing? My friend, I forget who was the plaintiff and who was the defendant, but I was called by the producer as the expert witness because I then, while this was in process, I went through every transcript of every prediction that Ed made.
- [148:16]
Chris
Right.
- [148:18]
Michael Horn
Yeah. Okay.
- [148:20]
Chris
They weren't so accurate.
- [148:21]
Michael Horn
No, I mean, I. This isn't speaking ill again. No, no. Simply couldn't do it.
- [148:25]
Chris
I don't think Ed, again, I don't think Ed was a Great remote viewer.
- [148:29]
Michael Horn
No, he wasn't.
- [148:29]
Chris
But I think he was really good at teaching it.
- [148:31]
Michael Horn
Yes. And that's exactly what we came away with. Yeah. And
- [148:36]
Chris
I.
- [148:37]
Michael Horn
There were a couple particular things. I was hanging out with them for about a year. There had been an incident where one or two U.S. air Force jets had been lost. I forget the number because might have mixed up. But he came in one day, he was absolutely positive where it crashed and all this stuff. They found it in a different state. It had nothing to do with. Came up here and he just let that go. And it was like. I didn't see anything accurate from her, but I found him to be an interesting and entertaining guy.
- [149:09]
Chris
Yeah.
- [149:11]
Michael Horn
I wish I'd read the contact reports a little earlier before I got involved with the whole thing, because they were in there prior to that about his company.
- [149:23]
Chris
Really?
- [149:23]
Michael Horn
Yes.
- [149:25]
Chris
What do they mention about Ed?
- [149:27]
Michael Horn
They said that this company, SciTech, they named it was basically more about making a lot of money. There was a. There was authentic remote viewing. And I think they mentioned that the Russians had pioneered and all, but that this was. I mean, they. They dissed him after I'd gone, but I had. It was great. I found out for myself. I had the experience that he could teach it.
- [149:52]
Chris
Sure. Yeah, he could.
- [149:53]
Michael Horn
So great. Thank you very much. And then these guys are suing each other everywhere. And then there's another story that I'll tell you off camera about one of the people who was his assistant that I had a little pranked after the trial. You know, we all have different sides to our nation, but this guy pranked. And he loved it, it turned out.
- [150:13]
Chris
That's very funny.
- [150:14]
Michael Horn
It was funny.
- [150:14]
Chris
He's. Yeah. I remember the last communication I had with him. When I met with him, he was convinced that I was going to be the one to film First Contact with him, that he was being led to First Contact. And he had all these. He regaled me with all these stories of when he was out there with the. Was the Prince of Lichtenstein and like all sorts. And, you know, the HAL put off and they went out to see UFOs and you know, they would remote view where the UFO would be. And he said, you know, they're gonna meet me. And he would write me emails and say, you're gonna come film me? You're gonna come film me. Go out there. And then I'd follow up with him. I was like, so did you. And he's like, yeah, timing wasn't right or something. Something went awry. But yeah, I'm gonna pause for a second.
- [151:00]
Michael Horn
Sure.
- [151:01]
Chris
We got some questions from the audience, if you don't mind.
- [151:03]
Michael Horn
I don't mind.
- [151:04]
Chris
Would you like to take a little break before we get into this or are you good to keep going?
- [151:07]
Michael Horn
I'm fine.
- [151:08]
Chris
Okay, now, now I know that one of the questions we already kind of answered and that usually happens because, you know, I have good questions, but arguably the questions from the audience are always better because they're, they're so intelligent. There's smart people in there and there's a whole bunch of them. You know, I think you got like 20, 20 or 30 questions here, but we're going to grab a few of them. And if, if you at home wonder how, you know, how can you possibly ask one of our guests a question, you can become a member. And that is one of the perks that you get for being a member. So here we go. Great question. So this here by Alan P. Barker asks. Billy's visitations are ongoing. Was there ever talk of installing live video feed all around the area? It's a great question.
- [152:05]
Michael Horn
Well, the context began in terms of the modern day, the stuff for public consumption and all in the 70s, 75, during that early time, into the 80s, they're still in a. I'm just looking at this, talking out loud because they're still putting together their environment. No, now there were of course people who wanted to come to the contacts and Billy speaks about this and people who believe that they had a mission with the player and all that. But no, because again, this is. It was going to be frustrating for people in certain ways because they knew their agenda, again is to start a controversy or contribute to something that started earlier, if you want to look at it that way. But to help get it worldwide and, and the best way, it's this eye candy approach. There'll be other people who'll snap photos, people in other countries who had taken photographs of these craft. So, okay, you're going to have the photos out there. Be patient. We're going to get this controversy going. We're going to talk about these things. But no, we're not here to keep this going in a way that. Well, okay, that was okay, but how about. We've got people that got some questions. Can you do a thing over, et cetera, et cetera. It would just lead to more focus on the eye candy, which was not their purpose. That's my interpretation of it.
- [153:34]
Chris
Okay, interesting. A lot of people out there love the eye candy, though, of course, who didn't.
- [153:41]
Michael Horn
If you're into UFOs.
- [153:44]
Chris
I'm a big fan of the eye candy. Oh, this is a great question. Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds
- [153:53]
Michael Horn
and like a whole community. It's a club.
- [153:56]
Commercial/Announcer
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- [153:57]
Michael Horn
It's in the name.
- [153:58]
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- [154:00]
Michael Horn
Oh, yeah.
- [154:01]
Chris
Come join us.
- [154:02]
Michael Horn
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- [154:25]
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- [154:25]
Michael Horn
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- [154:44]
Chris
Gina asks, what is one thing about the Meyer case you don't know that you would like a definitive answer to?
- [154:50]
Michael Horn
Oh, that is a great question.
- [154:52]
Chris
Yeah. Something that you could just go like, definitively you. There you have it. There's your answer. What would that be?
- [155:02]
Michael Horn
I. I've never had. I can't recall. I mean, that's a great question. It's one I should. I will think about a lot more and maybe have to send it into you. It's like there's so many answers for things that I've wanted to know since childhood. Things that I was having dreams on, lights in the sky, being underneath a disc. But I get it now. It doesn't matter. Not because somebody says it doesn't matter. It's like that's the phenomenon of that. And in the context. And we'll dip into this just a little bit in the context of this, the UFO and the traditional, this disc shaped thing, that Bob Lazar, that Billy Meyer, all this, this is not an accident. And this may help some people. Maybe it helps with this answer.
- [155:58]
Chris
I don't know.
- [156:00]
Michael Horn
What's been said in this case is that on Earth there are people, human beings who have been part of the original Earth, humans evolving over long periods of time, people alive today. Their creation, energy, form, their essence may have already had 2 million incarnations as different people because we're never in this reincarnational thing, which we didn't. Can't really go too far into. But yes, there's such a thing as reincarnation, but it's not what we think. We're never the same person. We don't remember past lives. There are parts of that that have more information. How we can draw on information that is contained from every life. Okay, but then there are also people who are here, who are here because they came with one or another group of extraterrestrials. Not always a great romantic thing. They died here, they were abandoned here, or they were attacked and killed by circumstances other people on the planet. One of the laws is that a spirit form that dies on a given planet reincarnates, reanimates a new personality or on the planet in which they die. Now that. To answer a possible next question on that is that if you're a space traveler, then and your society reach space travel and you die somewhere else on a planet and there it kind of works that you're not going to suddenly have no future personalities because there's no life on that planet that we go to. The spirit forms will be attracted through creational law to an inhabited planet, none of which are in our solar system, where there is evolving human life at a level that is commensurate overall. So that the spirit form comes in. There's a new personality. It can be. It's already has access to so that it can fit into that society and evolve consciousness. The meaning of life, the evolution of consciousness. So the universe isn't this universe. It's not like, oh, the universe is punishing me or rewarding me. Absolutely doesn't happen. There are laws and it's. If a circumstance comes about that creates this problem, it's solved in this way universally. And then you have to go on with your evolution. If there's a crash in space itself or something and you. You die on a ship, same thing of this creation energy form is attracted to the next habitable planet or evolution at this level.
- [158:52]
Chris
Does it have something to do with the EM field like the electromagnetic fields of the planet?
- [158:57]
Michael Horn
Not as such as I understand it, because it's more the evolutionary level of the human life forms on that planet. So that. Because. Wait a. I mean, conceivably.
- [159:10]
Chris
But life to. For life to even exist, there would have to be like an EM field to protect it from certain radioactive.
- [159:16]
Michael Horn
All that stuff is some, you know, part and parcel. There are those kinds of questions. EM fields, when you get into things about fluidal energies, what are those? And swinging waves and how does telepathy work? And what are ghosts and what are apparitions? And what are these supposed paranormal things? There's nothing paranormal. There are things that happen according to known laws or we don't yet know the law, or it's a hoax. It's Pretty simple.
- [159:42]
Chris
Yeah.
- [159:43]
Michael Horn
So we have some of all of that going on. So this question, to come back to it, I don't know what question I still have, I'm being honest, and I may well have some. That's a great question.
- [159:55]
Chris
Was there a question in the past? I'll reframe the question here. Yeah, there was that you that was burning and that you had answered.
- [160:03]
Michael Horn
Yeah. Now, yes, to a degree, as I said, I wanted to know what came before the beginning. How did anything come into being. Billy's got an entire book on that and there's a new book that comes out. People will be able to get off the site that is also addressing this because he goes through that and we've read some of the explanation about this because he explains things in different places and he is a big believer in repetition. So you will find he'll say it. He'll say it this way, he'll say it that. So that we get the access to the information through the modalities that we're working with, intellect, wherever we are in understanding. There are people at higher levels of understanding can go through things, let's say a little more quickly because they already understand that. Most of us won't understand this. Some will. Okay, so on that level, do we have an answer for that? Yes and no. Because that answer alone poses a question that the brain cannot get around. And even Billy said, even the pleiar. And I asked him, said, do they play? I don't know the answer? No. The human brain can only go so far. It's only if answers are to that come about, they will only be in the higher levels. And they've spoken about, well, what is the evolution of a human being? We will go through countless millions of lifetimes and years and move towards a more refined, more etheric, not total, semi physical, semi. You could use the word creation energy here. Hyphenated word form. Until we are at a level of development where the next, if you will, incarnation or the reincarnation spirit isn't into a physical form, it's into the lower levels of the creational energy. This goes on. There's the Arahat atharzata. Billy's got a whole book on that. That book rivets me. It's just such a powerful direct.
- [162:15]
Chris
So that was your answer to like, how far, how far does it go? Where does it end? And it just kind of like, there's levels to this, there's levels to it.
- [162:23]
Michael Horn
And don't, don't torture yourself. Work with that in the teaching Start or continue so that you can start to answer more questions that also are very much about here and now life. Billy is an Earth man now and he said that to the player because they've offered, you know, they offered to give him a fake arm. No, thank you. I'm an Earth person. That's part of it. And he says, just practically speaking, if suddenly I appear with the left arm, how long is it going to take for some military to kidnap my butt and start taking me apart? If you don't want that,
- [163:06]
Chris
Well, these are all great answers. This is fun. Definitely fun to talk about, you know, Definitely leaves me wondering and curious more than anything. I'm gonna, you know, have to do some reading myself, but I have a feeling there's a lifetime of that awaiting me. So I'll probably not get to the bottom of it, unfortunately.
- [163:23]
Michael Horn
Can I give you one? Because I mentioned earlier off camera last night I was thinking about something and I asked Andrea to make a note for me. And the seven foot giants, some people will remember a couple years ago, I think it was in August perhaps of 2023, where it was reported in Peru that 7 foot tall giants were abducting and maybe even harming people, women from the village or whatever. And it was this whole thing. And as soon as I read that originally, bang, it was one of those aha moments. I know I've got this 1976, it's in books and everything else. And it's from one of the higher, you know, creation energy levels that feeds that Billy cannot talk to or he can receive and he gets the teaching and he has to work to make sure it's the way it's supposed to be. But he can't really dialogue with them. This is my understanding there is a level that he can go back and forth. Not that level. Okay, so this is the Pitali level. And they spoke about the time that will come in Peru when the seven foot tall giants will emerge from their centuries long hiding places underground to molest the people there. And there's something tied into a quake in Udine, which I think is. Or Udine in Italy. And indeed I was able to find, and I, I didn't look into that part again today, but I found that so I could send it to you. And that verifiably 47 years or whatever it is after that was published, that event occurred right down to where and the size of the people. I think they also said they were redheaded or red tinged or something and that this was, you know, an unwelcome thing and. Okay, what's the chances of that 47 years ago, because you brought up the point of, you know, like a dartboard thing. Are they just throwing darts? We haven't found the holes in the wall.
- [165:39]
Chris
Sure, yeah.
- [165:40]
Michael Horn
So. And all of that. And at some point, I would like to offer our film to your audience and let me know if I can do that.
- [165:48]
Chris
Yeah, definitely.
- [165:49]
Michael Horn
Okay.
- [165:49]
Chris
Yeah, I'll. I'll leave a link in the description if you send me a link, or all the information will be down there if you like.
- [165:57]
Michael Horn
Good.
- [165:58]
Chris
Okay. Yeah, great. We'll leave that below. Thank you so much for. For coming here, for sharing this with me and for being so rigorous in understanding about my skepticism to this case. It's fun to be able to have that dialogue. As someone who is researching this and doesn't really know where to put a lot of things yet, it's fun to just be offered at least, at the very least, a new piece of the puzzle. I'm still a ways from. From being there. Right. My conviction level fluctuates constantly, but nonetheless, I find this fascinating and interesting and I think worthy of a deeper look at the very least.
- [166:46]
Michael Horn
And the two guys that. Who've done the research that you will at least speak the same language.
- [166:53]
Chris
Sure. And I am on the photography side.
- [166:56]
Michael Horn
Yeah, that's one I want to watch.
- [166:58]
Chris
Yeah, I'll definitely, I'll definitely be in touch with it. And if anything, I'll just look up their work and have a look at that as well. But I encourage the audience to, you know, not stop at the one thing, maybe have a deeper look. And if, you know, if you feel inclined to, you know, look at some of the contact reports or some of the documentaries, I would, you know, highly encourage you to do that by looking at things. No one's going to say you believe it, you know, and that's the. That's the one thing about this whole space. And a lot of things when it comes to personal beliefs, which is like a binary thing, if you research something, that doesn't mean that you believe what you're researching. And I think it's a really important thing for people to practice is just intake information on a very unbiased level and without, you know, just pass it through your filters and see how it resonates and that's it. You don't have to commit either way. Yes or no. But I encourage you to do so. And if nothing else, if nothing else, you'll be potentially thoroughly entertained and it isn't a complete waste of time.
- [168:01]
Michael Horn
Can I throw a thought in?
- [168:02]
Chris
Sure.
- [168:03]
Michael Horn
I've been asked if I believe in Billy meier, believe in UFOs and I've said no. When you know something, you don't have to believe in it. You could be wrong, of course, but rather than belief, I have the evidence in my experience and so I'm comfortable as well with, with people who don't have have informed their own determination. I try to answer, oh, this is really asking for trouble. I try to answer all my email, but you've got an audience off the chart. I can get around to it, but that's it. People, please do your own research. If it's really pressing, I will try to respond. If I can help, I might be very terse and say look over here. That this. I know, I don't know, whatever. But you have opened your forum, your audience, your world to this where most people with big platforms won't do it. They just prefer the what I consider the easy way.
- [169:07]
Chris
Sure.
- [169:08]
Michael Horn
So I am thanking you and so I welcome. We're in the same boat really.
- [169:14]
Chris
Well, there's rest assured that those who are opposed to any of this won't be watching at this point. So they have long since written their emails.
- [169:24]
Michael Horn
Yeah. And their comments. Smoking.
- [169:28]
Chris
Yeah, that's right. But for the strong, brave and true that have fought this one out and are still here listening, thank you for listening, thank you for watching and feel free to check out some of the work that Michael has left you and some of the links below. And at the very least just have a gander at some of the stuff that's out there on the Internet about this case. It's very interesting and it continues to mystify, baffle and intrigue me. And yeah, I look forward to seeing more. So thank you Michael. Pleasure.
- [170:20]
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- [170:48]
Michael Horn
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