Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: Episode Summary – "Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex"

In this riveting episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, titled "Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex," host Dax Shepard engages in a heartfelt and intense discussion with his guests Monica Padman, Carly, Chris (also referred to as Jackie), and Lauren. The conversation delves deep into the tumultuous experiences each guest has had with their "crazy exes," exploring themes of stalking, control, and personal growth.

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1. Introduction

The episode begins with Dax Shepard introducing the "Armchair Anonymous" segment, where guests share their most challenging romantic experiences. [00:00 – 05:00]

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2. Carly’s Story: The Graffiti Stalker [04:34 – 12:00]

Carly recounts her relationship with a boyfriend she met shortly after college. Initially charming and involved in graffiti, his obsession with graffiti crews takes a dark turn after their breakup. [04:34 – 07:54]

• Stalking Begins: "He started tagging my house and my workplace, marking every coffee shop I visited. It was his way of showing he couldn't let go." [06:52]

• Escalation: Carly describes how his actions intensified, leading to police involvement and a no-contact order. [07:23 – 09:44]

• Confrontation and Resolution: The situation culminates in a physical confrontation where Carly forces her ex to return stolen items, including a journal filled with his musings. [09:53 – 12:00]

Notable Quote:

"So, you have a crazy ex. I mean, everyone does, but you have a crazy ex that we're going to hear about."

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3. Chris’s Story: The Controlling First Boyfriend [15:04 – 25:21]

Chris shares his harrowing experience with his first boyfriend during college, highlighting the challenges of dealing with a controlling partner.

• Relationship Dynamics: Chris describes dating a boyfriend involved in selling weed and graffiti, which eventually leads to repeated stalking behaviors after their breakup. [15:04 – 20:04]

• Psychological Impact: The relentless stalking severely affects Chris’s mental and physical health, leading to extreme stress and anxiety. [20:35 – 22:13]

• Final Confrontation: After months of harassment, Chris confronts his ex at his job, leading to a tense meeting where the ex admits his actions and promises to leave her alone. [23:18 – 25:21]

Notable Quote:

"I know you've been doing this. You've been following me. And loud in the middle of the store. And that spooked him."

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4. Lauren’s Story: The Hidden Struggles of a Soon-to-Be Bride [29:20 – 57:00]

Lauren tells a compelling story about discovering her fiancé’s hidden issue with indecent exposure, revealing the complexities of love and trust.

• Engaged and Moving In: Lauren describes moving in with her fiancé, believing the relationship was strong and on the brink of marriage. [29:20 – 31:18]

• First Signs of Trouble: An unexpected encounter with law enforcement leads to the arrest of her fiancé, unveiling his secret behavior. [48:14 – 52:26]

• Confronting the Truth: Through a series of events, Lauren learns about her fiancé’s repeated acts of indecent exposure and his eventual confession, leading to the cancellation of their wedding. [52:26 – 57:00]

Notable Quote:

""So I didn't handle that well. And I at this point was like 98% sure she's lying, right? Because she's angry."

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5. Discussions and Insights

After each story, the panel reflects on the emotional and psychological toll of dealing with a "crazy ex." Topics include:

• The Importance of Boundaries: Emphasizing the need for personal boundaries in relationships to prevent abuse and control.

• Mental Health Awareness: Highlighting how underlying mental health issues can escalate into harmful behaviors if not addressed.

• Personal Growth and Resilience: Each guest discusses how these challenging experiences have led to personal growth and better relationships in their lives.

Notable Insight: Monica Padman remarks, "It's not good," in response to the destructive nature of graffiti crew rivalries, underscoring the chaos that unfettered obsession can cause.

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6. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with an emotional acknowledgment of the guests' bravery in sharing their stories. Dax Shepard commends their resilience and the importance of seeking help when faced with such difficult situations. The conversation leaves listeners with a deeper understanding of the complexities involved in romantic relationships and the importance of mental health support.

Closing Thought:

"We're going to talk about some of these crazy experiences because they're a testament to human resilience and the ability to grow from adversity."

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This episode of Armchair Expert offers a raw and unfiltered look into the lives of those who've faced extreme challenges in their romantic relationships. Through candid storytelling and thoughtful discussion, Dax Shepard and his guests provide valuable insights into handling toxic relationships and the journey toward healing and personal growth.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join onedry+ in the wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse. Today is Crazy Ex. Tell us about your crazy ex.

[Monica Padman]

People have crazy exes out there.

[Dax Shepard]

They do.

[Monica Padman]

They have a history.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I have one, but I don't think it was realized till after. Now this. I gotta give a disclaimer to this. Obviously this should have been foreseen. Obviously crazy X entails some stalking, so if that's an experience you had, this.

[Monica Padman]

Probably isn't for you.

[Dax Shepard]

It's. You want to skip it?

[Monica Padman]

At least skip the first two.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, skip the first two. The other two, you skip the whole fucking show.

[Monica Padman]

Just don't listen to this show.

[Dax Shepard]

Go get a burrito and a Diet Coke and two martinis and kick your feet up. It's Friday. Enjoy the day off. You've got a day off. No homework today.

[Monica Padman]

Fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Please enjoy Crazy Exes. We are supported by Audible. We know you love audio content. Thanks for listening to the show, but if your ears are craving more audio, Audible is the place to go. I probably, in truth spend more time on Audible than any other place, any other app. Yeah, I'm listening every night for an hour before bed. There's more to imagine when you listen. Whether you're searching for the latest bestsellers and new releases or you want to catch up on a classic title, you can find it all in the Audible app. And as an Audible member, you choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog.

[Monica Padman]

What are you listening to now?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I'm just finishing the Worlds I See by Fay Fay Lee. It's so good and moving and I love it so much. I'm. I'm sad it's ending. Now listen. New members can try Audible for free for 30 days. Visit audible.comdax or text DAX to 500. 500. That's audible.comdax or text Dax to 500. 500. The new Apple Watch Series 10 is here.

[Jackie]

It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist. And it's the fastest charging Apple watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. Introducing the all new Apple Watch Series 10, now available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generation iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

[Dax Shepard]

Hard Times come and go Good times take them slow My life, I had them both Remember one thing you gotta.

[Carly]

Know I'm gonna keep on shining Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my goodness. Look at this wonderful sound booth you've constructed.

[Carly]

It's my husband's. He has a microphone and headphones. So I was like, thanks, babe.

[Dax Shepard]

But behind you, too, there's a lot of nice sound dampening.

[Carly]

I'm in my baby's nursery in this little nook.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

How old's your baby?

[Carly]

He's four months old.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, congratulations.

[Carly]

Thank you. He's tiny.

[Dax Shepard]

Does he smell delicious?

[Carly]

Yes, the best. So good. When does that change?

[Dax Shepard]

It goes on for quite a while. Are we using your real name?

[Carly]

My name's fine, but everyone else will change names.

[Monica Padman]

Perfect.

[Carly]

Just because to be gay.

[Dax Shepard]

And so you're not named after Carly Simon because you would have spelled it differently.

[Carly]

Actually, my mom. My name was Sierra, and then she was putting my nursery together and she heard a Carly Simon song, so she changed it.

[Jackie]

Oh, wow.

[Carly]

My dad came home, he was like, why does her room say Carly now? And she's like, I changed her name.

[Monica Padman]

So you are named after her?

[Carly]

Yeah, just spelled different.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess that's permitted. I like that you like when people spell names. Well, you and I have talked about.

[Monica Padman]

This in the past, Monica a little bit differently.

[Dax Shepard]

You like that?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, you have a crazy ex. I mean, everyone does, but you have a crazy ex that we're going to hear about.

[Carly]

I was so excited when I saw the prompt. I was like, yes. So you can't wait to hear Monica go, oh, my God. Like, what the fuck?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, set the stage for us.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Carly]

Yes. So it was in 2013. I was a couple years out of college. I met this guy, we won't name him When I was in college. He just lived in the college town, but he didn't actually go to school. One of those. And he sold weed, so that's a big part of the story. He was a dirtbag. Not my proudest boyfriend moment.

[Dax Shepard]

What was it about him that tickled your fancy? Was he gorgeous or something?

[Carly]

He was cute. You know, in college you're drinking a lot. We met at a party and it was fun. That continued for a couple years, but it was never great. But yeah, so it eventually broke up. But I should have mentioned this earlier. He was into graffiti. Graffiti gangs are called crews. I don't know if you guys know anything about this. I'm, like, so embarrassed to tell this story.

[Monica Padman]

No, we love learning but yeah, he.

[Carly]

Was in a crew. He always talked about this one specific other graffiti artist in the area that we're from and how he was like this OG person. And there's something very particular about this person. I won't say what it is about him because it would totally give it away. But he was like, yeah, that guy's so cool. I'm like, all right, cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, can I ask you one quick question? I guess this is maybe a PSA for dudes. My hunch is he was telling you how cool graffiti was, and I'm in a crew and this is awesome. You probably weren't ever that enthralled by it, but you're probably placating him, like, oh, cool, hun.

[Carly]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hard for us to know, us boys, like, we're trying to tell you about this thing and you're being nice, and then we're misled to think this is cool.

[Monica Padman]

Because if you're not nice, then they get mad.

[Dax Shepard]

You get graffitied.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you get graffitied in the middle of the night.

[Carly]

Just wait till the end of this story.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I ask how long you were together?

[Carly]

On and off for a couple years. But, yeah. We break up and I go to a party in a different town with a completely different group of people, not connected at all. And I end up meeting this guy and we hit it off and then we start dating. Well, it turns out he's like the OG character from another crew. Oh, I had no idea at all.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, you have a type.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Carly]

And it was so silly. I'm like, why did I date both of these people who were into all this bullshit Anyways? So my ex finds out that I was dating this other cat from another crew and starts to tag my house and tag my work.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Carly]

Tag, like, all the coffee shops that I go to.

[Monica Padman]

Ew.

[Carly]

Really, really icky. And he's tagging sloppy seconds everywhere. That's how we knew it was him.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Carly]

I end up moving. He finds out where my new house is. The cops were involved. Cause at that point in time, it was like stalking. But I'd be out with friends. And I've always had this weird kind of sixth sense thing. My dad has it too. Something's wrong and we can't really explain it. But yeah, I'd be out and I'm like, he's here. My friends would be like, where at? And I'm like, I don't know. But he's here. I gotta go.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Carly]

And I'D like, walk out of the bar, and he'd be walking around the corner. Or I'd come out of a coffee shop, and he'd be like, across the street, ooh, ooh, new guy. I'm still dating him. He's getting pissed at this point in time. Cause obviously he, like, cares about me enough to be like, this is really creepy and messed up. So the funniest part about this whole story is these two dumb graffiti crews. Sorry. To anyone that's, like, super into graffiti. I think at this point in time in my life, I'm like, it's so stupid, the crew thing. But they met at a train for, like, an old school rumble.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Oh, I love this part. It's like the Outsiders.

[Carly]

Yes. And they ended up fighting. Lots of people were involved. Just so dumb.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Carly]

I couldn't believe it. I was like, really? We're still doing that type of thing now?

[Dax Shepard]

This is a question Monica would never ask, but I will, because I'm a boy who won and lost. Was there winners and losers?

[Monica Padman]

There's no winners. Everyone's a loser here.

[Carly]

Everyone's a loser. I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I just want to know if your valiant boyfriend prevailed.

[Carly]

Yeah, I think it got broken up at some point in time too. I never really got, like, the full inside scoop of things.

[Monica Padman]

Was there guns involved?

[Carly]

I don't think so.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Just fist fight spray, pink hands.

[Monica Padman]

What if they sprayed each other with classic paint?

[Carly]

Definitely. Like, ripping shirts off and wearing white tank tops.

[Dax Shepard]

I was open to the notion you were gonna say they had a tag off, like a dance off. Like, they got to a rail yard and they're like, you got that train car? We've got this one. Let's see whose piece is fucking better.

[Carly]

I'm sad. Cause the second guy, he actually did a lot of really cool legal stuff in the city. And the ex would, like, go over his legal murals and things that were, like, funded by nonprofits to beautify our city and whatnot. So I just went from, that guy's the coolest OG painter. If you ever meet him, let me know. And then I ended up dating that guy.

[Dax Shepard]

It made him unravel.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, in his defense. He doesn't deserve any defense, but, boy, there couldn't be anything rougher than your ex going to your hero, dating your hero.

[Carly]

I know, right?

[Monica Padman]

That is tough.

[Carly]

It was not intentional, and I think he definitely thought it was. And I was like, I didn't know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that does seem so bizarre.

[Dax Shepard]

Impossible coincidence. How did it resolve?

[Carly]

Just over time, really. I mean, the cops were involved, so I had like a no contact order. Eventually it sizzled out.

[Dax Shepard]

Did the fight resolve anything? Did he stop tagging up? No, no, no, no. Of course, it rarely does.

[Carly]

I suppose after that, the sloppy seconds and name calling on the buildings outside got a little bit worse. At that point in time, that's a.

[Dax Shepard]

Very freaky experience to be walking around and go like, oh, he was there.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, he's there leaving tracks.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, what he's doing is peeing on things.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like a dog.

[Carly]

It was scary. I was young and I lived by myself.

[Dax Shepard]

How long were you with the OG guy?

[Carly]

Like six years after that.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Is your current husband a misfit of any kind?

[Carly]

No, he's like the most basic nerdy tech guy of all time. In the best way.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You have to get it out of your system.

[Carly]

Yeah. He's not anything like I used to date, that's for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you ever hear through the grapevine? Did he outgrow his angsty shit? And is he an artist now?

[Carly]

I don't think so. When me and the second guy split up, I moved away from that whole scene. No hard feelings with the second one. Actually we're buddies, but I don't think he ever really got his stuff together. But that was the weirdest thing, was he would live in a different city, selling stuff all over the place, and so I'd never know if he was here. So that was like another little piece of it.

[Dax Shepard]

You just gave me a great idea, Rob, write down, have you ever dated a drug dealer? So you could probably do a different prompt. Like he have randoms show up at the house. Was he dealing out of the house or would he meet people, places? And how much money was he making doing this? Was he like fly and had a bunch of around town money?

[Carly]

A lot?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Carly]

It wasn't ever at the house. It was more like he'd go places with large amounts in his vehicle.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

He was dealing in like kilos and stuff?

[Carly]

Yeah, bigger amounts of things.

[Lauren]

Oh, wow. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

How has it permanently impacted your association with graffiti? When you see graffiti, you just go like, these fucking clowns. Or do you like it?

[Carly]

I'm not going to say that. I never had a little tag or doodle that I did. I definitely did that because it was kind of fun. But when I see it on a house or a building, like, yeah, you clowns, really. Anywhere else it's cool. And a lot of it is really beautiful and amazing. In our city there are a lot of very talented people. So, like no hate on it. But the whole crew beef is beyond me.

[Dax Shepard]

Very immature. Wow. I find myself conflicted about it. I'll see some. And it's great. It is. It's art. It's beautiful. But then this happens more in Europe, particularly Paris. You'll see this incredible marble statue that is 600 years old and some arrogant narcissist spray painted all over it to get his own glory. It's got to be a him. And I'm like, those make me irrationally upset.

[Carly]

I kind of feel the same way. I'm like, that's so disrespectful. Like, go do it on the dumpster.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Carly, what's clear from this conversation is you're a catch. Everyone's lining up.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

You're spending no time alone, so congrats.

[Carly]

Oh, thanks.

[Dax Shepard]

You went 26 and then married.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

It's lovely meeting you.

[Carly]

You do. Thank you. I have to give shout outs. They're going to be so upset if I don't. So my mom said I have to tell you that she was very sad that blessed this mess didn't continue.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank her on my behalf.

[Carly]

And Parenthood was her favorite show. She was like, you have to tell Dax. I was like, okay, Mom. And then my sister and my best friend are also armed cherries.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, lovely meeting you. Shout out to Mom. Thank you, Mom. Keep consuming all those things. And shout out sister and best friend.

[Carly]

Thanks, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh.

[Chris]

Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you want to look at my veins, you pervert.

[Chris]

Always.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in a doctor's office. So my presumption was you like veins.

[Chris]

Yes, I do like veins. I'm a nurse. I'm here in my clinic room. I was supposed to be seeing a.

[Monica Padman]

Patient, but, oh, my God.

[Chris]

A doctor is seeing them for me.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay, good.

[Dax Shepard]

We're not preventing someone from medical care.

[Chris]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Jackie, are we using your real name?

[Chris]

Yeah, that's my real name.

[Dax Shepard]

Wonderful. And where in the world are you other than a doctor's office?

[Chris]

New Orleans, Louisiana. Which is also where the story takes place.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't get a lot of New Orleans. We don't.

[Monica Padman]

And I love New Orleans.

[Chris]

I know. You did have some Tulane talk on one of your recent experts. Yeah, that's like a heavy woman college.

[Monica Padman]

Right on, Malcolm.

[Dax Shepard]

It was Malcolm.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like becoming a woman's college.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That whole area around there, the Garden District and all that stuff, is so dreamy.

[Chris]

I've been here since right before Katrina When I started college at Tulane.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. And where are you from originally?

[Chris]

I'm from New Rochelle, New York.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a big move.

[Monica Padman]

We're probably about the same age then.

[Chris]

We're exactly the same age. I'm 9-87- wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. Are you a Virgo?

[Chris]

I'm totally a Virgo.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Chris]

Girls, I love that you have the same birthday as my little brother who is just a few years younger.

[Monica Padman]

Lots of crossover.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you find when Monica and I have dust ups that you being the same age in a Virgo, Are you always on her side?

[Chris]

Not always. It's half and half.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay. You're giving us a very fair shake.

[Chris]

I hang on. Y'alls everywhere. I don't even mind the toe fungus top.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, we got.

[Monica Padman]

There's more of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Big update today and you'll even get a visual.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you'll get to see it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Jack.

[Dax Shepard]

Jackie, you have a crazy ex story and we're dying to hear it.

[Chris]

I do. I missed the stalker prompt. So when Crazy X came by, I thought I have to try and submit.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, it's funny, Jackie, that you would say that is we've only talked to one other person and it immediately occurred to me these are generally probably going to be stalkers.

[Chris]

Yeah. So this took place in New Orleans in 2007. 2008 was my very first boyfriend I ever had. It was my junior year of college. We met working at the same restaurant. He was a bartender and I was a server. And we dated for I want to say maybe 18 months. And he was kind of like on the hippie side. He loved music. We'll go to Bonnaroo. And one of his birthdays, I made him like an entire binder full of burn CDs from the 60s and 70s. Very Beatles heavy. So we did that a lot together. And you know, I enjoyed the relationship while it lasted. But I was young, I was like 18. And ultimately he turned out to be a little controlling. Nothing crazy. He just didn't like it if I would wear makeup to class or dress up nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's a little more than little controlling.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's red flaggy for sure.

[Carly]

It was red flags.

[Chris]

But it was my first boyfriend. I didn't know any better.

[Dax Shepard]

And when you're naive, I guess there's some side of you that it's flattering, right? Like oh my God, he thinks I'm so hot. It's dangerous if I am worrying.

[Monica Padman]

He's so protective of our relationship. He's scared he's threatened. I'm so hot.

[Chris]

Yeah. I ultimately realized that he was controlling. And again, I was so young and it was not serving me anymore. So I thought, whatever, we're breaking up. I don't wanna be with you anymore. So we broke up and he did not take it well.

[Dax Shepard]

We are supported by the new holiday action comedy Red 1. The mission to save Christmas is on. Dwayne Johnson and Chris Evans star in Red One from Jake Kasdan, who I love as you know, director of Jumanji. Welcome to the jungle. After Santa Claus, codename Red One, played by J.K. simmons, is kidnapped, the North Pole's head of security, played by Dwayne Johnson, must team up with the world's most infamous bounty hunter, played by Chris Evans, in a globetrotting, action packed mission to save Christmas. This is Christmas fun like you've never seen before. See Red 1 only in theaters November 15th. Get tickets [e-mail] we are supported by Audible. I love Audible. I've been listening to so much Audible lately because I've been taking these naps a lot. I always like to listen to Audible to go to sleep. Now, look, it's a special feeling when you encounter a story that truly sparks your imagination. Whether it's imagining new worlds and possibly abilities or discovering new ways of thinking, there's more to imagine when you listen. That's why we love listening to the amazing titles they have on Audible. Right now I'm listening to Wim hof.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And you are really into it. You were explaining a lot of the pieces to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I lost you a little bit.

[Monica Padman]

I'm listening to Intermezzo by Sally Rooney.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it great?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's great.

[Dax Shepard]

Audible truly has the best selection of audiobooks, without exception. From bestsellers to new releases to exclusive Audible originals, there's always something to discover. As an Audible member, you choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.comdax or text DAX to 500. 500 that's audible.comdax or text Dax to 500. 500. We are supported by Sonos. Oh boy, oh boy. Sonos is my favorite product in my whole life. I'm listening to it all day long. I'm in the gym listening to Sonos. I'm at home, listen, watching TV with my Sonos soundbar.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, it's so. It really changes the whole experience of listening.

[Dax Shepard]

Look, you're listening to the podcast right now, but how are you listening if you're not listening on a Sonos speaker. You don't even know how amazing the dulcet tones of our voices can sound. Sonos is known for having the absolute best sound quality of any speaker on the market. You've got to hear it. And as good as Sonos can make us sound, imagine listening to Pink Floyd on a Sonos speaker or hearing the booming dramatic music in a great action film on a Sonos soundbar. Game changing Another incredible feature of Sonos, their integrated sound system makes it easy to play anything in any room.

[Monica Padman]

I love that it's easy to use.

[Dax Shepard]

Too, so you can keep your dance party going throughout your whole house. Visit sonos.comdax to learn more. That's sonos.comdax.

[Chris]

It started with you would come to the house at all hours of the day and night. I lived on a second floor duplex apartment and I had a little deck outside of my window. It wasn't like a porch, it was like a little deck you could sit on. And he would sit up there and do creepy things like he would whistle or knock at my window. I would never be able to get out there fast enough to catch him. And then started the non stop phone calls. Like hundreds a day, all hours of the day and night. I couldn't even use my phone. So I changed my phone number, but I kept my old phone because it was just cheaper to let that contract run out. So I had both phones with me, which is important to a later part in the story. It just kept ramping up. I blocked him and he would call me from restricted numbers. So I just left that phone alone. I tried to move on with my life, but it didn't really stop. I would like notice weird things happening to me around the city. I went to a male friend of mine's house and we were just hanging out at his house and my car alarm kept going off at his house. So I went outside to check and nobody was there. I just kept turning it off. I went back into his room and he said, did you just call me? I said, no, I didn't call you. I'm here.

[Carly]

He said, that's so weird.

[Chris]

I have this phone call from Jackie right here. And he showed me the phone and the phone call had come from my old phone number, which was back at my apartment.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, we're now we're like we're veering into psychopath territory.

[Chris]

I went back to my apartment and it was totally trash. He had broken into the apartment, rumbled through all my things, taking the phone.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, My God.

[Chris]

Taking the paintings off of my walls and just gone wild. During all this stuff happening, I tried to get my dad involved, and he tried to call him, and he would just deny, deny, deny. He was like, this is not me. I'm not doing any of this. You're paranoid.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I ask you a question? And I don't want a victim shame, but it is always curious to me, and I just want to explore why people are very resistant to calling the police. Did you want to call the police? Did you call the police? Why didn't you call the police?

[Chris]

I called the police. I tried to call when he was doing the whistling on my porch, but by the time they got there, he wasn't there. I did file a restraining order, but they realistically told me, this is just a piece of paper. Just watch out for yourself. Yeah, I reported him to my campus police. He didn't go to the same college that I went to, so I, like, gave them his picture, but it was just kind of like, okay, be on the lookout.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you did everything you could do.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm so sorry, ladies. It's so scary.

[Chris]

It really affected my health. I was rapidly losing weight. I was really stressed out, couldn't eat. I went on a date with another guy. Months later, we went to the movies and I drove. And on the way, we were listening to, I think the Marshall Mathers lp. And we went into the movies and we came out. And when we came out, it wasn't playing Eminem anymore. It was blasting the Beatles.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Chris]

So at that point, I thought, okay, he definitely stole my extra set of car keys. And that's why when I was around the city, he would, like, set off my panic button. And I knew it was him because who else was going to be blasting this Beatles music that we had listened to together?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, oh, oh, man.

[Chris]

And at that point, it had been a long time. The entire experience of him stalking me was more than a year, maybe a year and a half that had happened. So at that point, I was past fear and I was really angry. I remember that CD issue being the final straw. And I grabbed a friend of mine and I confronted him at his job. He was working at a grocery store at that time. And I went in with my friend with the Beatles cd and I just accosted him at his job. And I said, I know this was you. I know you've been doing this. You've been following me. And loud in the middle of the store. And that spooked him. And he said, oh, like, please, please, Just meet me outside. And then at that point, he admitted to everything. And he said, it's been me this whole time. I'm so sorry. I couldn't get over it. And I just had to. What I had to do. And I'm going to leave you alone. I swear I'm going to leave you alone. Can you just come to my house and I'll give you your things that I have of yours?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

Which is another red flag. I did go, but I brought some people with me. And I went to his apartment, and he handed me this big cardboard box of all of the things that he had taken from my house. So it was like my clothing and just random things that, honestly, I didn't really care about if I had them or not. And he said, well, I have this one last thing to give to you. And what it was was a journal that I had. And in typical fashion, I would get a journal and write maybe five pages in it and then forget it existed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So he had taken it, and he had filled the entire journal full of this long letter to me. I still have it to this day.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. This is so. This is like, seven.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it was like a movie.

[Chris]

So this is, like, how much I wrote in it. And then the rest of the journal is what he wrote. So it was just full of pictures and, like, one long letter of, like, pressed flowers, pages ripped out, and just, like, letters that I had written to him. There was one part where he would censor what he wrote. I don't know if you guys could see.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he redacted things.

[Monica Padman]

This is so crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Hey, Jackie, when you were with him for the year and a half, did you get any sense that he was, like, unstable other than the, like, controlling stuff? Was he dealing with other issues in his life in a bizarre way?

[Chris]

A little bit. He came from somewhat of a broken family. His parents weren't together, but overall, he was happy. And the couple of pages that I did write in the journal, I did mention that we had fights here and there. I don't remember really, but I guess we were always having little fights.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Well, he's trying to control you, and you're probably pushing back, and it's probably endless.

[Chris]

I'd studied women's studies at Tulane. I was just not having it at the time. I didn't think. I just said, okay, never mind. See you later. But I thought this journal was so interesting, because I know you guys always talk about journaling. It is a letter written to me, but over the, like, year and a half that he wrote in this journal, he eventually comes to terms with accepting it and being okay with it. It ends up being really a note to himself.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Chris]

So it was obviously very therapeutic for him to have finished this journal.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a weird testament to the power of journaling, but here we are. I'm shocked he gave it to you. I would have thought maybe he'd want it for himself.

[Monica Padman]

It's also creepy to give it to you.

[Chris]

Yes, he did also give me back the car keys and the phone, so I did get all of that stuff back too.

[Dax Shepard]

And was that truly it? Did you never bump into him again?

[Chris]

It was truly it for the stalking part of it. Fast forward to 10 years later. It's 2018. I was on my very first date with my now husband, and we were just wandering around the French corner, and we were in the back of the French Quarter, where it's real quiet, not Bourbon street party time. I was showing him an old apartment I used to live in, which this ex boyfriend I don't think knew about. But I spotted him. He was across the street, on the same street that we were on, and he was with another guy. And we shared quick eye contact. We didn't acknowledge each other or anything like that. From there, that was truly it. I never saw him or heard from him again.

[Dax Shepard]

God, that's what makes these things so complicated and maddening. Like, how is anyone to figure out which one will get over it and which one's going to escalate? And, like, you're dealing with something that's kind of illogical and already doesn't make much sense and. Yeah, it must be so stressful trying to figure out, like, how serious is this threat?

[Monica Padman]

How dangerous? Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

How much danger am I in?

[Chris]

Yeah, I remember it being very stressful at the time. I'm happy to report there was no real lasting effects from it. I'm happily married and I feel in good health.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, what a story.

[Dax Shepard]

I hate how many women have these stories. I really hate it. Now, when the show Nurse Jackie came out, were you delighted or upset?

[Chris]

I don't really mind. People say it all the time like, oh, Nurse Jackie. And the funny part is right now, one of the doctors I work with, his name is Dr. Google.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Oh, wow. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Someone has the last name Google.

[Chris]

Yeah, it's spelled differently, but pronounced Google.

[Monica Padman]

Dr. Google and Nurse Jackie in one practice.

[Dax Shepard]

This sounds like a comedy sketch.

[Monica Padman]

Well, thanks for sharing that. Sorry to make you rehash It.

[Chris]

Well, that's okay. I'm so happy to talk to you guys. I truly hang on your every word. I love all the shows.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Monica Padman]

We appreciate you.

[Chris]

Can I just give a quick shout out to my fellow armchairi. Heather? Our whole text thread is all armchair stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Heather, thanks for listening as well.

[Chris]

Thanks, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, nice to meet you. Take care. Bye, sweetie pie. Yeah, I want her as a nurse.

[Monica Padman]

So shitty.

[Dax Shepard]

It is. You're just, like, in an innocent relationship in college and it turns into this horror show. Do someone trash my apartment?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean. Oh, they're not afraid of the law.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm trying to think of the grossest, weirdest thing I've done in a breakup.

[Monica Padman]

What have you done?

[Dax Shepard]

You know, slash tires and smash windshields and. Bro. No. Oh, my. Oh, no.

[Monica Padman]

God.

[Dax Shepard]

I was my worst self when I got cheated on in 12th grade.

[Monica Padman]

And didn't you do something bad?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I tried to fight the boy.

[Monica Padman]

Who her had sex with her. Be respectful. They made love.

[Dax Shepard]

How dare you. I'm gonna go to your house.

[Monica Padman]

It's really good. It was really, really good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Best love making of her life.

[Monica Padman]

Hello. Hi.

[Jackie]

Dex and Monica. How are you?

[Dax Shepard]

Nice to meet you. Chris, you look like you could definitely be in Leonard Skynyrd.

[Jackie]

Oh, thanks.

[Dax Shepard]

You got a real Skynyrd look, and I love it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Where are you?

[Jackie]

I am an hour south of Louisville, Kentucky.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh, I love how people from Louisville say Louisville.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you like to say that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

I'm from Tacoma, Washington, so I had to learn to say it right.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure, sure. Okay. So you have a crazy ex, which is a bit of a relief, I gotta say, because we've talked to two women, and it's just.

[Monica Padman]

And there's horrific stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they're horrific. And these poor women are terrified. So if we can hear from a terrified man, that would help.

[Monica Padman]

Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Right. The ship a little bit.

[Lauren]

Great.

[Jackie]

Cool. So this takes place back near Tacoma, Seattle area in Washington. In 2008, my senior year of high school, I started dating a girl who I had known. We went to junior high high school together. She was on the high school cheer team, but she was also in theater.

[Monica Padman]

Was she me?

[Jackie]

Yeah. Things are going great. We start dating about halfway through senior year. So when we start dating, she says, just so you know, I am saving myself for marriage. Totally okay with that already.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a much better guy than most. You're totally okay with that. That's great.

[Jackie]

Well, I wasn't, like, stoked about it.

[Lauren]

You loved her.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You respect her.

[Jackie]

Yeah. And other things were happening. Graduation. We, at this point, were in love. And she says, I want you to be my first time. He's like, okay, well, I'm not ready to get married. And she's like, no, no, I don't want to wait anymore. So we actually do have a couple legitimate conversations about it. And then I end up taking her virginity. It's a pretty great summer for both of us.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Jackie]

And I move into an apartment with a couple friends, and she just kind of starts coming around unannounced, like she lives there. And my friends were like, hey, it's not really okay. So I had a talk with her. And then over the course of two or three months of fall and into winter, she starts getting more clingy. She starts inviting herself to guys days, like, hey, we're going skateboarding, or we're going up to Seattle to go see a movie. And she's like, great, when are we leaving? I'm like, no, this is a guys thing. And she's like, yeah, but I'm coming with you guys. And I'm like, no, that's not how it works. It just progressively gets worse. Her behavior becomes kind of erratic. I feel really bad. The first thing on my mind is I'm starting to fall out of love with this girl, because it's not the girl that I fell in love with. She's acting differently. And then, of course, I also do feel bad. Like, I did take this person's virginity, and that's very, very sacred to her.

[Monica Padman]

You can't take that on. You asked.

[Jackie]

So I end up breaking up with her. I. I do it not the best way. I don't text her, but I don't do it in person. I call her, okay, Because I knew it's going to be a huge thing. So I call her, and I'm just like, hey, like, this isn't working out. I love you, but I'm not in love with you. And of course, first thing out of her mouth is, you're not breaking up with me. You took my virginity.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, fuck, yeah.

[Jackie]

Like, oh, okay. Well, this is tricky. I don't know what to do in this situation.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess I'll see you tomorrow.

[Monica Padman]

I guess you're right.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess we're still together.

[Jackie]

I'm 18. I don't really know how to navigate these kinds of situations. I am not an adult yet. So I basically end up just saying, we can talk about this, but, like, I think I want to break up. And so a couple days later she comes over, it's a Friday night and we're having a party because we're 18, so there are people in the house. She's like, can we please go in your room and talk? So we go into my bedroom and we start talking. And she's like, so what's this about wanting to take a break? And I was like, no, I want to break up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

And then she just says like, no, I don't think you can do that. Is that an option? Then I'm like, I'm really sorry. This does suck. This isn't going to work out. So she does some begging and pleading and I of course feel horrible, but just stand my ground. And then she's got a few things in my room. So she gathers her things and she's obviously stomping around my room and is huffing. And then she walks out of the room and slams the bedroom door. And then she opens the door back up and puts her hands on her hips and she goes, by the way, I'm pregnant.

[Monica Padman]

Stop. No, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so, okay, I'm gonna. Okay, okay. Now I'm just going to let this proceed.

[Jackie]

So I didn't handle that well. And I at this point was like 98% sure she's lying, right? Because she's angry. So I just do the dumb 18 year old boy thing of like, oh, okay, you're pregnant. Yeah, I kind of make fun of her.

[Monica Padman]

Oh boy.

[Jackie]

Monica, I'm sorry. I know it's not a good look.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica, I'm sorry.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, she's worse off in this situation than you are. Her behavior is worse.

[Jackie]

What my egos allow me to remember is this is the first mistake I make is poking at her right In a very vulnerable moment. Even though, like you're using this lie as a weapon.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackie]

She leaves. She calls me a hundred times over like a week. I don't answer. She sends me a text and says, I need you to meet me at store and I want us to buy some pregnancy tests. And so I'm like, oh, okay. Now I'm kind of scared. Like, okay, maybe she is serious, right? So she comes over in the middle of the day and we have a couple that we're friends with that are there to mediate the tension. And I'm like, I don't want to be alone with her. We go in the bathroom and we take the tests. It's negative.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Jackie]

We take a second and then a third one. They're all three negative. And I'm like jumping for joy. I'm 18. I make $250 a week. Like, I can't have a kid.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You're living with 12 dudes.

[Jackie]

Yeah. I'm, like, clapping, and I'm like, yes. This is awesome. She's, like, in tears, and I'm like, this is a good thing. We broke up. You're not pregnant. And then she goes, goes, well, I just thought if I actually was pregnant, that we could be together.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

I'm like, no, that's not how it works for one this imaginary child that you lied about.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie]

We would have raised them separately, and I'm not gonna be with you regardless.

[Monica Padman]

I would have raised them separately.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. This conversation right now would be about visitation rights, not about where we're gonna buy a house.

[Jackie]

So you did lie about the pregnancy, and she said yes. And then I'm like, okay, please gather your things and leave, and I don't want to speak to you anymore. So she leaves. My friend, and I have the decency to wait till she's out of the apartment to high five.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jackie]

And, like, this is a huge relief. Even though I knew it was a lie, just the idea that it's a possibility is terrifying. She starts telling everybody that she miscarried and that that's why she wasn't pregnant. So she's telling everyone in the friend group that, like, the stress of our breakup and blah, blah, blah. No one believes her.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank God.

[Jackie]

I don't look good in this sit situation, even though I really haven't done anything wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Right?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you haven't done anything wrong.

[Jackie]

We don't talk. It's the next summer, so, like, nine months goes by. I have some friends who rented a house in the lake. We're partying. I go to bed early. What do you do in the 2000s? You take someone's phone and you make prank calls. Okay, so I have not texted her. I've not called her. She's not reached out to me. One of the people they prank called in my phone was my ex.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's your buddies fucking with you. They're, like, pranking people from your phone or you're participating?

[Jackie]

No, I. I'm asleep.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay, great.

[Jackie]

They just sent her some texts and said some things on voicemail. She didn't answer the phone. I had no idea that this had happened. Two days later, there's a sheriff knocking at my door to give me papers for a restraining order.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Chris.

[Jackie]

I have to go to a hearing, and I have to explain, like, this is what's Going on. I don't have to go to the hearing, but if I don't go, she automatically gets the restraining order. I guess if I don't show up to defend myself. I'm 19 now. This is how dumb I am. I think a restraining order is like a physical thing. Like, I can't be in her physical realm. So I text her and go, like, what's the deal? Why did you get a restraining order against me? And now I've. At this point, I figured out, like, what happened with the print calls. A restraining order. There's zero contact. So I screw up not knowing that you can't text the person and be like, can we be reasonable? I thought it's like, you know, if I go to a coffee shop and she's there, I have to leave.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's kind of.

[Monica Padman]

I would have thought that probably.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So I get a fine. I have to go to a court date now.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, because of the restraining order?

[Jackie]

Yeah, because I violated the restraining order. So I have to go in front of a judge and say, this is what happened. And he's like, why would you text her? And I'm like, I don't know. You don't have a lawyer, right? I'm just like, sorry, sir, you're in.

[Dax Shepard]

Your cleanest T shirt.

[Jackie]

Yeah, pretty much this. Skateboarding jeans that don't have holes in them. And he basically is just like, she's allowed to have this. You could have gone to the hearing and fought this. I understand your position because I had proof. I got the phone company involved with call logs. I mean, I told him the whole story. I just told you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Guys.

[Jackie]

Yeah, you can tell he's just sitting there going like, wow, she's something.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you got your hands full.

[Jackie]

But you did violate a restraining order, so you have to pay the court fee. You have to pay this fine. And this is like a strike one kind of thing because I don't have a record. And so I'm just like, wow. I'm just like a creep who has a restraining order from an ex girlfriend. That sucks.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I feel like that's on a questionnaire sometimes. Like, have you ever had a restraining order file against you? It's not like being labeled a sex offender, but it's not. Not great.

[Monica Padman]

It's not great.

[Jackie]

Yeah. I mean, no lesson to be learned other than just, I guess, maybe don't take people's virginity.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica's not going to like that takeaway, But I feel very confirmed. Take it in my fear. There should be professionals. There should Be like sex workers. There's singular businesses taking virginity.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God. That's the lesson here. Let's start a new field of sex work.

[Jackie]

I have never spoken to her since, and the restraining order expired and we've moved on with her life. It's been over 15 years now, and I'm married to an amazing woman who's like, yeah, You've never shown me anything. These signs because I tell the story as kind of like a cocktail party. Like a. Check out this crazy story I have. Yeah, I know this doesn't make me look good, but it's a funny story, right? Everyone's always like, yeah, you didn't do anything wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Chris, it's a damn delight to meet you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Truly.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks for chatting with us. That was fun. I'm sorry that happened.

[Jackie]

Thank you both.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care, Chris.

[Chris]

Bye.

[Jackie]

Bye. Bye.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought a baby was going to answer the call when they pranked her. Oh, it's a nine months. That's what you thought the big twist was? And the baby answered and said dada. The baby knew his number. I thought she was gonna threaten to hurt herself because that's pretty common. I've had that.

[Monica Padman]

People are crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

People get really emotional and they act unpredictably.

[Monica Padman]

No, people are crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess the title is Crazy acts.

[Jackie]

We with you people scare me.

[Dax Shepard]

We are supported by Peloton. Are you tired of the same old workout routine or struggling to find motivation at this busy time of year? It's time to check out Peloton.

[Monica Padman]

Peloton is so great. We all know this. Also, not only is it a good workout, which I did at our friend Molly's house, it's a great workout, but it's also like, pretty. It's sleek.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it is. It's a good looking piece.

[Monica Padman]

Very aesthetically pleasing. And you know that matters to me.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. I agree. Well, Peloton has a variety of training programs. They got pilates, 5k, 10k, half and full marathon programs, strength training, boot camps. There's so many ways to challenge yourself.

[Monica Padman]

It's so helpful to have a set plan. It takes the guesswork out. It just makes it easier to get started on your fitness journey.

[Dax Shepard]

It's great. And there's so many options on Peloton, so you can find a workout that gives you exactly what you're looking for.

[Monica Padman]

What kind of workout are you feeling today?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I gotta tell you, I was recently advised by a doctor to incorporate some more blasts, some high intensity blasts that you get. This special. He said look at sprinters, right? Why do they look like that? Because they're in this really high heart rate for some period of time and it's really beneficial. So I'm looking to go hard. Hard.

[Monica Padman]

Cool. Well, whatever you're looking for. Peloton has the workout for you and they have world class fitness instructors to push you to the next level.

[Dax Shepard]

Find your push, find your power with Peloton. @onepeleton.com we are supported by Wayfair. Oh my goodness, I love Wayfair. My feet are on a Wayfair coffee table right now that I'm in love with. I cannot believe the holidays are just around the corner. If you're hosting this holiday season, it's definitely that time where you need to start prepping the house to make things festive but also functional for your guests. Wayfair is the place to get great deals on things your home actually needs this time of year. Cozier blankets, maybe a few extra dining chairs, holiday serv wear. You name it, they have it. If you've been eyeing a few things on Wayfair, now is the time to get them. They have huge holiday deals going on right now and you can get up to 70% off during their Black Friday deals. That's huge. 70%.

[Monica Padman]

As you said, we have a coffee table, we have side tables in the studio. This whole place is Wayfair.

[Dax Shepard]

We are decked out. Wayfair also offers free and easy shipping, even on the big stuff and they'll help you set it up. One less thing to worry about this busy season. Don't miss out on saving big with Wayfair this holiday. Head to Wayfair.com now to shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals. That's W a y F A I R.com we are supported by 23andMe plus total health. Advocating for your health and the personalized care you need and deserve in today's one size fits all health care system feels impossible. 23 me + total health is a longevity platform that uses cutting edge genetic testing and blood biomarker analysis to help you create a health plan plan that's unique to you. With their advanced genetic screening, you'll get access to insights into your potential future disease risks which can help lead to early detection and even prevention.

[Monica Padman]

23Andme is how we learned about misophonia.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Monica Padman]

It's how we gave it credit.

[Dax Shepard]

And I just ordered a supplemental test that already was there. They just had to analyze it for our Isaacson. Yes, with 23andMe plus total health. You get comprehensive blood testing beyond routine labs, which can help you get a better understanding of how your health is changing throughout the year. Best of all, it's FSAHSA eligible. Check with your administrator to confirm eligibility. Advocate for your health today. Go to 23andMe.comDax to receive 10% off. That's 10% off at 23andMe.comDax if we did an episode where we got to air one thing about one another that was really inconsequential but that we couldn't accept. Oh, would you know what yours would be?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, that's such a big thing.

[Dax Shepard]

It is. Lauren, Hi. Can you hear us?

[Lauren]

Yes. Can you hear me?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I'm going to take up two seconds of your time because we're going to have a real life thing in front of you. Okay?

[Lauren]

Please.

[Dax Shepard]

So while it was ringing, I said to Monica, let's do an episode where we both air something about one another that's really inconsequential. We shouldn't care, but we want the person to change that. And then you answered.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's like he dropped this huge bomb. He's obviously thinking about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep. Because it just happened. Why won't you put your phone on do not disturb? You know it won't vibrate if you put it on do not disturb. And I hear it through all the interviews downstairs. And I hear it non stop. It was ringing off the hook yesterday in our back to back interviews.

[Monica Padman]

You could have asked nicely.

[Dax Shepard]

I have.

[Carly]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

I have suggested do not disturb many times.

[Monica Padman]

You have never said, hey, can you you put your phone on do not disturb, please.

[Dax Shepard]

It's your turn though.

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't have one. Sorry.

[Lauren]

Yeah, well, Monica, I'm not a do not disturb girly either.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Lauren]

Sorry, Dax, I'm gonna have to side.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love it. I love the way.

[Dax Shepard]

Lauren, do you do a show that is audio centric, where like audio is.

[Lauren]

Kind of important in Dax's defense, Monica, I do not.

[Monica Padman]

In my defense, do you know all the things you do that have to be cut out that are audio, video? Tell me, please.

[Lauren]

Just the other day he wanted us to hear how close his truck was.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, there you go.

[Jackie]

But see, this is great.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm open to it. That's okay. Tell me. I can take it. We're best friends. You know what it is? My great curiosity is, do you know you can do that?

[Monica Padman]

I do, but I don't want to.

[Dax Shepard]

What a great defense.

[Monica Padman]

I want to know if something serious is happening. I'm kind of scared of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you afraid you'll forget to turn it back on to focus? Cuz I could remind you at the end of everything.

[Monica Padman]

No, thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Are you glad you got to be privy to this? Because this is what happens quite often.

[Monica Padman]

I don't even have. Oh, yeah, I do.

[Lauren]

Of course. Yeah. I often see myself as the third party. Love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you think you didn't have it? Is that what you're just about to say?

[Monica Padman]

Shut up.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

God.

[Dax Shepard]

Lauren, you have a very nice closet. And I'm seeing some kind of snake skinny platform things behind me that are exciting.

[Lauren]

Oh, yes. I'm snakeskin booties. My closet. I'm not quite David Beckham level, but I aspire to be.

[Dax Shepard]

And what I notice you're doing and I wonder. I want to ask Monica if she does this too. You have one shoe that points out and one shoe that points in. Is that what you do too, Mom?

[Monica Padman]

I do.

[Dax Shepard]

Should I be doing that?

[Lauren]

Maybe not only because sometimes I'm looking for the color of the shoe that I need for the outfit, but also the heel is very important as well.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Am I going 1 inch, 3 inch? Where are we at?

[Monica Padman]

I also think it just looks cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Will you feel it's an invasive question if I ask how tall you are?

[Lauren]

No, not at all. I am 53 on my best day.

[Dax Shepard]

That's lovely.

[Monica Padman]

That's a good height.

[Dax Shepard]

Mini and mighty.

[Lauren]

That's me.

[Dax Shepard]

Where are you at in the world?

[Lauren]

I am from Muskogee, Oklahoma. I'm coming to you from my closet.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, isn't there Anoki from Muskogee? Isn't that a thing?

[Lauren]

Yes. And it's so crazy that you bring that up because we just unveiled a new Merle Haggard statue downtown.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. It's a Merle Haggard song. Anoki from Musk. Do you know that term, Monica?

[Monica Padman]

I've heard it.

[Dax Shepard]

That's so good. An Okie from Muskogee. Wow.

[Lauren]

The big joke now is there's a dispensary on every corner here. And so we do smoke weed.

[Dax Shepard]

God bless those outlaws that were just singing it from the roof, you know, famously. Do you know this, Monica? Willie Nelson, when he was invited to the White House, he went up on the roof and smoked a joint.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

It's pretty cool, right?

[Monica Padman]

That's cool.

[Lauren]

That is cool.

[Monica Padman]

Who was the president?

[Dax Shepard]

It Lincoln.

[Monica Padman]

I would look it up, but my phone's on do not disturb now.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet it was Carter. That's Going to be my guess. Maybe Rob will figure that out while we're talking. You're right. Is Carter.

[Carly]

Hey, Rob.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello.

[G]

It's with his son, Chip.

[Dax Shepard]

Ah. He and Chip banged a doobie up there on the White House. That's great.

[Monica Padman]

Carter was nice. He was a Georgia boy.

[Dax Shepard]

If there was anyone who would not be bummed when they walked outside to see that weed smoking, it'd be Carter.

[Lauren]

I mean, we should ask him. Bless him. He's so.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. You're right.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Really Cool.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Lauren got a story for us.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a crazy ex.

[Lauren]

Yes. To give you some backstory, this story starts with a teen pregnancy. Mine, as all good stories do. Okay, so I had my son in high school. The guy in this. I'm not going to say his name. Just to preserve his anonymity. This is my story from my perspective. Things didn't work out with my son's dad. No big deal. He's lovely. Family's lovely. Everything's fine. A year after I have my son, we start to get serious with me, and I'll call him my fiance. Fiance.

[Dax Shepard]

Not baby's daddy.

[Lauren]

Not baby daddy. Different guy. A year after my son's born, me and my fiance, we start getting serious. He had just finished school. I'm finishing school. He had moved about three hours away from our hometown for work, where, subsequently, my stepdad factors into this. They did the same kind of work. They were there together.

[Dax Shepard]

Oil and gas.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Ding, ding, ding. Sarah Paulson. Just listened to her yesterday. The Dust Bowl, Oklahoma.

[Dax Shepard]

Dingles, dingles, dingles.

[Lauren]

So, end of school, my last semester, I was lucky enough to get everything where it was online. And we had just gotten engaged that Christmas. And so I was like, I'm just going to move there. There's no reason. Like, I can do everything online. School was the only reason why I hadn't moved to be with them already. We've been together for years at that point. My son's 2 or 3. Everything's great. So I move out there. It's a Friday night. I'm getting dressed. Monica, you'll know this. This is 10 years ago. I'm wearing my skinny jeans, my peplum top, my sole bun, ready for date night to the local Chili's. Might I ask. I never got that Chili's. And I'm still upset about. Okay, so he comes home from work, he jumps in the shower. You know, he knows the thing. He's going to change. We're going to go to Chili's. All that's Great. While he's in the shower, the doorbell rings. So as I'm walking down the hallway, you can either turn left to the front door or right to the living room. And through the windows of the living room, I see three or four cops. Through the windows.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[Lauren]

And I'm like, okay. I mean, there's an air force base nearby. I'm like, maybe they're just looking for. I don't know what's going on. You know, I've only been in this town for a couple of months. Months at this point. So I opened the front door to about five cops. And so they instantly say, please step outside. And so I'm like, okay. You know, with no shoes on, my peplum top and my socks. And they are like, is anyone else in the home? I'm like, yeah, my fiance. He's just now getting out of the shower. And as I turn around and tell them that he's rounding the corner, putting his shirt on, he's like, hey, guys, what's up? He's like, step outside. Instantly, they separate us where we can't see or hear each other. I'm with one older cop, and the other 12 cops are with him. I'm like, you have to tell me what's going on. Like, does this involve me? What is the deal? And he's like, I can't tell you anything. And I keep badgering him. And finally I'm like, can you just at least tell me if this has anything to do with me? And he says, at this point, I don't think so. I'm racking my brain. I have no idea, mind you. Our wedding is a month away. And so I'm like, what is going on? The dozen of cops and my fiance go stand by the mailbox, and there's a gray truck that had been parked down the road, but I didn't think anything of it, Just thought it was parked outside of a house. Well, about the time they do that, the guy pulls up, rolls down his window, takes one look at him and said, yep, that's him.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Lauren]

They cuff him, put him in the police car. The gray car goes, and they leave. They tell me nothing.

[Chris]

Oh, my God.

[Lauren]

I'm just standing there. I'm thinking they had gotten in trouble on their job site a couple weeks before, burying trash or something silly. So I'm like, maybe it has something to do with that again, racking my brain. And so I instantly call his brother, which, again, it's a Friday night. I call him. He's at a party. I need you to leave. We've got something going on. I get him up to speed. I'm like, if there's anything that you know, I need you to tell me now. He's just as clueless as I freaked out because his brother just got arrested. So this is where my stepdad comes into play again. He's the only person I know. And so I call him. It's Friday. He's already at the bar. He's having a good time.

[Monica Padman]

Friday day, big day.

[Dax Shepard]

And a hard working town.

[Lauren]

Yeah, yeah, man. Long week, long hours. And so I tell him, and he's like, I don't know what's going on. When I saw him, everything was fine. But you know what? I'm at the bar, come pick me up. Consequently, I'm friends with one of the bail bondsmans that comes to the jail and we can figure this out. So I go and pick him up, and he's like, they couldn't tell me. They just told me where he was and that it's $1,000 bail.

[Dax Shepard]

That's mildly comforting. We're not talking murder.

[Lauren]

That's kind of what I thought. It wasn't even just $1,000 bond. $1,000 bail for the whole. So I'm like, okay, get some cash out. We go to the jail. I walk up there and of course no one's there because it's after hours.

[Dax Shepard]

They're at the bar and at Chili's, too.

[Lauren]

Exactly. And so I pick up the phone call and this lady answers, hi, I'm here to pick up so. And so I have the money. She's like, okay, great, we'll send somebody up in just a minute. You'll sign some paperwork, we'll send him out. I said, okay, ma'am, could you please tell me what the charges are or what's going on? And she's like, no, I can't tell you that. As he comes walking out again, me and my stepdad in the car. He's then moved to the back seat because he is just Mr. Knott, non confrontational. He has no idea what's going on.

[Dax Shepard]

He wants nothing to do with this whole situation.

[Lauren]

So he said, lb, I'll tell you this, please just don't ask him while I'm in the car. Just take me home and then you can do it. And I'm like, okay. So we take him across town, take him to his house. He gets out. And then I'm just sitting there thinking, because of course, as soon as he's gone, I want to just turn to him. And be like, what is going on? Like, we're getting married in a month and you're getting arrested. But I just have this moment of, like, these past few hours have been so crazy and hard for me, and I'm not even the one that went to jail. So I'm going to give him a second. He's probably so scared, felt so unsafe. Give him a second to just let it sink in.

[Dax Shepard]

You're an angel.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's so empathetic and kind.

[Lauren]

The hours, it wasn't as heightened. And so we get home, he goes to get out of the door, and I instantly press the button to lock the doors. I'm like, no way. I can't go into this home with you and just go to bed like, nothing has happened until I know what's going on. That's when he lowers his head and breaks down and tells me that for the past year or so intermittently, not every day on his way home from work, he had been exposing himself to strangers on the street.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. My God.

[Lauren]

And the guy in the gray truck, My fiance had done it on the way home from work that day. The guy in the gray truck, his daughter was in the back seat. He followed him home, called the cops, and so that's why he was like, yep, that's him.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Oh, my God. My Lauren.

[Monica Padman]

That is not what I was expecting.

[Dax Shepard]

Twist. I don't know why this might be unfair to people with this condition, but when I think of these flashers and the trend I can't wrap my head around. If I'm filling in the blanks, I'm assuming that person's the weirdest, and I would be able to detect that.

[Lauren]

And that's what everyone always says. You know, looking back, were there any signed? No. I was about to marry this man and be with him for the rest of my life. Everything was great. I had no idea.

[Dax Shepard]

I am very shocked he admitted to all that. To be honest with you, I'm surprised he didn't go. Like, this person pissed me off, and I'm like, I'm going to show him my D. Like, that's pretty wild. He came clean like that.

[Lauren]

I think it was because turns out they had been looking for him because he had been doing it for so long, and of course, people had gotten his tag number and stuff. But we're not from there. The address and stuff wasn't leading them to anywhere local. Local.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Lauren]

So turns out there were six felony counts of indecent exposure.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Lauren]

And God knows, I mean, because thinking back now, if I saw, I would just be like, oh, and keep going, you know, and of course tell all my friends this crazy story that happened. I'm not gonna think to call and report it. So who knows how many times it actually happened.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What were your follow up question? You must have just been dumb.

[Monica Padman]

So they let him out for that that quickly? That's weird.

[Dax Shepard]

They can't hold you if they set a bail.

[Monica Padman]

No, I'm saying I'm surprised. The bail was set for so low for six felony accounts.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

He had signed a statement while he was there admitting guilt and remorse for all of it. Of course, I had a ton of follow up questions. Why, when? What was the reaction ever good?

[Dax Shepard]

I've read that what they're after is they like the look on the person's face, the shock. Did he say that?

[Lauren]

Yeah, he said it was never good and that's what his goal was.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he get.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God, I have so many questions.

[Lauren]

Ultimately he was sentenced and he went to prison for a few years. And the last time I have talked to him, seen him face to face, I guess was through the glass on the phone at the jail. Like you would imagine. And this was 10 years ago.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you. By the way, I would not be judgmental. In fact, maybe I'd even admire this about you because you could go like, yeah, you need to go get punished. But also you could have compassion for him. I don't want that condition.

[Lauren]

That's exactly where my head was. It made me feel bad that we were close enough to actually be married and that he felt that number one, he couldn't tell anyone, but certainly that he couldn't tell me and think that I wouldn't want to work through this or fix it because now it's a little too late. I mean, again, I have my son.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

I mean, he's a sex offender. To be with him, I would have to get married to him. Like that. I could not see that for myself. I didn't want that for myself. And I like to think that he didn't want that for me either.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, this could be potentially really heartbreaking, Lauren. Like if I was so in love with someone and I found out they had this thing, that would not be easy. It's not like I go like, oh, great. So now I don't feel all the ways I've always felt about them.

[Lauren]

Looking back, there were never any signs, but it did just cast a shadow on certain things. And I mean, I was 22 at the time.

[Dax Shepard]

Gordy had a three year old I mean, you got a lot going on.

[Monica Padman]

There's so much on your plate.

[Lauren]

This is terrible. And I helped him as much as I could, but I kind of had to too much for me. I gotta go home.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you have to have a boundary.

[Lauren]

But just from friends of friends, I've heard that he's since then remarried and he seems like he's doing fine and doing great.

[Dax Shepard]

Keeping his pants on maybe.

[Monica Padman]

Hopefully in therapy, let's hope.

[Lauren]

And about a year after all of that happened, you know, I had moved home, started working. And actually me and my son's dad, we rekindled about a year after. And we've been together ever since. Oh, no way.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

I love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow, I didn't see that delightful ending coming our way.

[Monica Padman]

Great ending.

[Lauren]

Kind of like a blessing in disguise. For me at least.

[Monica Padman]

Also, you caught it just in time.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I mean, Monica, I had to call. I mean, all the venues. Cancel the cake. I had my huge dress hung up, ready to wear. It was insane.

[Dax Shepard]

Although I will say, normally when you have to call off a wedding, you have to go like. Yeah, I just decided I was. I didn't want to be with them forever, but this is like so clean. It's like, turns out he's a flasher.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that is also, like, you have to tell people. And you probably are conflicted. I feel bad for him. And now I have to tell all these people. He knows.

[Dax Shepard]

He'd be so embarrassed that everyone knows.

[Lauren]

Being from a small town, everyone knew we were getting married. And then everyone knew we broke up, but no one knew why. So, I mean, maybe someone will hear this and they'll be like, wow. Okay, I get it, I get it. Wow.

[Monica Padman]

And you also protected him from not telling everyone. That's very kind.

[Lauren]

In the end, all worked out. But yeah, that was a crazy time. I told this story one time at a bachelorette party. We were staying in a cabin in the middle of. Of nowhere. And the power went out because it was a rainstorm. They were like, let's tell ghost Story. And I didn't really know all these girls and I was like, circle up. Let me tell you. I got one.

[Monica Padman]

I got a ghost. Wow. Oh, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Pull up a chair, gals.

[Monica Padman]

That was wild. I really, really hope he's doing okay.

[Lauren]

From what I hear, I think the system worked in the way that it is ideally supposed to. And he got the help that he needed. And I can only hope that moving forward, he learned his lesson and has gotten over that. Because I can't imagine.

[Dax Shepard]

I just Might feel more in love with them than I actually was because I wasn't allowed to be with them for a reason that was out of my control. Like, I feel like it's just ripe for that.

[Lauren]

I think that made it easier for me not to be kind of vindictive and do things that I probably would have regretted. So I am thankful for that. And he is such a nice. I mean, I was going to marry him. He's a great guy and I truly hope that all of that got fixed. But I'm just was ultimately sad that he was in that place that he felt like he couldn't disclose to anyone.

[Monica Padman]

That is one of the things our society doesn't really have an outlet for people to go say, like, hey, I have these feelings, or I'm doing this and I don't really want to be doing it, but I'm doing it. Where can anyone go to do that? And then it perpetuates the problem. It's not good.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's add that to the list of things to fix.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, add it to the list.

[Lauren]

Well, Monica, add it to the list of your questions to ask any potential suitors.

[Monica Padman]

Have you ever thought, oh my God.

[Lauren]

Showing your penis to strangers ever? Just a little bit. Just once or twice.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Lauren, thank you for telling us that. And thanks for mediating our conflict at the beginning. And your story was so good. Now we're feeling good. Yeah, and me too.

[Lauren]

Well, no, I was hoping that the uplifting end would put a nice little bow on it.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, well, be well. Thank you so much.

[Lauren]

Yeah, thank you so much. I hope you guys have a good rest of your day.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take. Oh my God, that Gail is so positive.

[Monica Padman]

Don't you think maybe do not disturb is not such a big deal in light of what people are doing out there? My God.

[Dax Shepard]

I said part of my question was something insignificant you shouldn't care about. So I owned how trivial this is.

[Monica Padman]

But you do care.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, yeah, cuz it distracts me. I get worried. The guest is like, who's ringing? Is someone going to answer that?

[Monica Padman]

They don't care.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't care.

[Monica Padman]

No one cares except you. Wow, that was wild.

[Dax Shepard]

That was wild. We got kind of every variety of that.

[Monica Padman]

I wonder if I loved someone that much. I wonder what I would stick around for. And that's like a scary thing to say out loud. But I really could see sticking around for stuff I shouldn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, no, no, I think the rule is pretty clear. It's would you stick around? As they tackled this problem I have.

[Monica Padman]

To really love them though, because I'm kind of quick to be like, I can't be here for that.

[Dax Shepard]

That's fair. You would never stick with someone who's not going to dress it. But if you love someone and they're going to work their ass off on this thing, I think you would stick around for that.

[Monica Padman]

Yikes.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, if you saw the look on someone you love's face of the shame when they told you, I do think would be very powerful.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, it's all how they say it. If they get like defensive and denying, blah, blah. No. But if someone just has that moment where they come clean and they're full of shame, I think the best part of us would want to help that person figure it out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But also, I mean, it depends on your cuz she has a kid like you can.

[Dax Shepard]

That made it very easy. Yes, I agree.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

All right.

[Carly]

Anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you. Do not disturb focus.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[G]

We know a theme song.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're going to ask some random questions and with the help of Arm Cherry's we'll get some suggestion on the Fly Rhyme dish. On the Fly Rhyme dish. Enjoy. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] sur survey.

[G]

In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of a beloved wife and mother. But this tragic loss of life quickly turns into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her. And she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the Internet is the Kill List. A cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, address, dresses and specific instructions for people's murders. This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. And it turns out convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy. Follow Kill List on the Wandri app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more. Exhibit C True crime shows like Morbid Earth early and ad free right now by joining Wandery Plus. Check out exhibit C in the Wandery app for all your true chrome listening.