Armchair Anonymous: Dated a Criminal

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard Episode: Armchair Anonymous: Dated a Criminal
Release Date: January 24, 2025
Host: Armchair Umbrella

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Overview

In the episode titled Armchair Anonymous: Dated a Criminal, Dax Shepard delves into the intriguing and often tumultuous experiences of individuals who have found themselves in romantic relationships with individuals involved in criminal activities. Joined by Monica Padman, the conversation uncovers the emotional complexities, red flags, and eventual outcomes of such relationships through the personal narratives of three guests: Courtney, Brittany, and Phoenicia. The episode offers a candid exploration of vulnerability, trust, and the journey toward personal growth amidst chaotic circumstances.

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Guest Stories

Courtney's Experience

[03:28] Courtney:
Courtney begins her story by recounting her experience dating Dan, a man battling substance abuse issues. Fresh out of a long-term relationship and college, Courtney turned to online dating, where she connected with Dan, characterized by his tattoos and captivating eyes. Believing she could help him overcome his addictions, Courtney became deeply involved in his tumultuous life.

Notable Moments:

• Dan's Criminal Activity: Dan confesses to committing a smash-and-grab at a hardware store to fund his drug habits. This revelation leads to police intervention at Courtney's residence.

  [04:28] Courtney:
  "...last night I did a smash and grab at the hardware store. So he threw a brick or a rock or something into the window, grabbed the quickest thing he could, a vacuum cleaner."

• Legal Consequences: The police raid results in Dan's injury and subsequent arrest. Despite the chaos, Courtney remains supportive, visiting him in the hospital and staying by his side during his brief jail stint.

  [06:28] Dax Shepard:
  "What was the extent of his injuries while he was in the hospital?"

• Community Stigma: Upon Dan's imprisonment, Courtney faces suspicion from her apartment community, leading to strained relationships and eventually forcing her to move out.

  [07:31] Courtney:
  "...rumor has it you pushed Dan out the window."

• Dan's Redemption and Passing: Two years later, Dan overcomes his addiction, starts a family, and achieves stability. Tragically, he succumbs to cancer shortly after a happy period.

  [08:01] Courtney:
  "...he did pass away from his addiction. He actually got clean. He met a girl, had some kids. He was doing really well. But he got cancer and within a few weeks of the diagnosis had passed away."

Brittany's Story

[10:11] Brittany:
Brittany shares her encounter with Phoenicia, a mutual acquaintance who also dated a criminal. Her narrative emphasizes the importance of due diligence in relationships, especially when red flags are present.

Key Points:

• Discovery of Criminal Record: After suspecting deceit in her relationship, Brittany conducts a background check and discovers her partner's history of assault, battery, kidnapping, and disorderly conduct.

  [14:01] Monica Padman:
  "My God."

• Avoiding Escalation: Brittany chooses to block her partner instead of involving law enforcement, citing concerns about being unprepared to handle the consequences.

  [18:28] Dax Shepard:
  "Did it cross your mind to alert law enforcement?"

• Lingering Fears: The discovery of her partner's criminal activities leaves Brittany with lasting fears, especially when bodies are later found in nearby canals.

  [19:12] Brittany:
  "...for a while, there were bodies that were being found in the canal."

Phoenicia's Journey

[22:02] Ariana (Phoenicia):
Phoenicia recounts her relationship with Tom, an assistant professor with a manipulative and criminal nature. Her story highlights the deceptive charm and control exerted by abusive partners.

Significant Events:

• Initial Attraction and Manipulation: Phoenicia meets Tom through a party, drawn to his "bad boy" persona. As their relationship progresses, Tom introduces her to illicit activities, including check fraud.

  [25:08] Ariana:
  "...I think that I was clearly about to commit some check fraud."

• Apartment's Destruction: Tom's criminal endeavors lead to the chaos in Phoenicia's apartment, involving theft and collaboration with known mobsters.

  [27:07] Ariana:
  "...the apartment is being robbed all out in the open."

• Confrontation and Revelation: An unexpected intervention by mobster Mishka exposes the depth of Tom's criminal operations, resulting in Phoenicia's realization of his true nature.

  [29:02] Ariana:
  "...all of a sudden, Tom and Mishka just embrace in this, like, big bear hug."

• Legal Struggles and Personal Growth: Despite initial setbacks in the legal system, Phoenicia's persistence leads her to become a licensed private investigator, transforming her traumatic experiences into a path for empowerment.

  [51:05] Dax Shepard:
  "There are a lot of plot twists in this thing."

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Discussions and Insights

Throughout the episode, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman engage in reflective conversations, drawing connections between the guests' stories and broader themes of vulnerability, trust, and self-worth.

• Red Flags and Boundaries: Emphasis is placed on recognizing early warning signs in relationships and the importance of maintaining personal boundaries to prevent falling into manipulative dynamics.

  [12:06] Dax Shepard:
  "I just want to applaud your boundaries."

• Impact of Past Relationships: The guests' recent breakups and low self-esteem played significant roles in making them susceptible to entering relationships with individuals who exhibited criminal behavior.

  [55:28] Monica Padman:
  "...the sense of, am I worth loving? Probably not, because this other relationship didn't work."

• Personal Growth and Resilience: Despite the emotional turmoil, each guest demonstrates resilience, ultimately transforming their painful experiences into opportunities for personal development and professional advancement.

  [54:22] Dax Shepard:
  "I think this kind of experience does ruin a lot of people. So I'm happy for you."

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Conclusions

Armchair Anonymous: Dated a Criminal offers a profound exploration of the intricate dynamics involved in relationships with individuals entangled in criminal activities. Through Courtney, Brittany, and Phoenicia's personal stories, the episode underscores the significance of self-awareness, the courage to confront uncomfortable truths, and the strength required to rebuild one's life after such challenging experiences. Dax Shepard and Monica Padman's insightful commentary further enriches the conversation, providing listeners with valuable lessons on safeguarding their emotional well-being and fostering resilience in the face of adversity.

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Notable Quotes

• Courtney on Dan's Attack:

  "Last night I did a smash and grab at the hardware store. So he threw a brick or a rock or something into the window, grabbed the quickest thing he could, a vacuum cleaner."
  [04:28] Courtney

• Brittany on Discovering Criminal Records:

  "He was like, I want to murder you."
  [11:59] Monica Padman

• Phoenicia on Legal Struggles:

  "There are a lot of plot twists in this thing."
  [51:05] Dax Shepard

• Dax on Personal Growth:

  "If you're laying on your deathbed in 80 years and you have literally nothing of excitement to look back on, I don't know that that's a win either."
  [09:15] Dax Shepard

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Key Takeaways

• Recognize Red Flags: Early signs of manipulative or criminal behavior should not be ignored. Trust your instincts and prioritize your safety.
• Maintain Boundaries: Establish and uphold personal boundaries to prevent being drawn into harmful situations.
• Seek Support: Surround yourself with a supportive community and seek professional help when navigating complex emotional landscapes.
• Transform Adversity: Use challenging experiences as catalysts for personal growth and empowerment.

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Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard continues to provide meaningful conversations that resonate with listeners, celebrating the human spirit's capacity to overcome and thrive amidst life's messiness.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman, and we're here today to learn about people who have dated criminals.

[Monica Padman]

There's criminals out there, you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Spoiler alert. It's all women who dated male criminals.

[Monica Padman]

And I didn't say it. You did.

[Dax Shepard]

I said it. And then I went on to say I was delighted to see that one of the arsonists here in the city was female.

[Monica Padman]

You love seeing bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I do, I do, I do. We. We got to take what a little we can get.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

We got such a bad scorecard.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, anything that right. Sizes the look.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone's capable of all things.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. Women just do different kind of weird stuff normally. Yeah, statistically.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, statistically, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So this is, you know, this ranges from comedic to insane to absolutely terrifying to bozo town with the whole gamut. So please enjoy dating a criminal. If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It comes with the privacy and security you expect from Apple. Plus, you earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, which can automatically earn interest when you open a High Yield Savings account through Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member, FDIC terms and [e-mail] we are supported by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, check that you have all the ingredients for a recipe before you start cooking dinner or checking if you need to use the bathroom before you start recording so you don't need to take a break mid show. Checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US Only. Savings vary terms apply Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois oh, times come and go Good times.

[Ariana]

Take them slow My life, I had.

[Dax Shepard]

Them both Remember one thing you gotta.

[Lily Padman]

Know Imma keep on shining.

[Phoenicia]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi. Can you hear us?

[Courtney]

Oh my gosh, I can hear you.

[Dax Shepard]

Where are you at?

[Courtney]

So I am in Ontario, Canada. The story takes place in London, Ontario. I've heard you Speak of London before.

[Dax Shepard]

Halfway between Detroit and Toronto, home of McAdams.

[Courtney]

That's right. Before we start, I did want to say something to the two of you that I thought was kind of cool. So a few years ago, I bought a manifestation journal. And the very first thing that I wrote in that journal was that I wanted to meet Monica Padman, Dax Shepard, and Kristen bell.

[Monica Padman]

You got two out of three, 66%.

[Dax Shepard]

Of the way there.

[Monica Padman]

That's so fun. I believe in manifesting well.

[Courtney]

I do now.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you dated a criminal.

[Courtney]

I did.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Please walk us through it.

[Courtney]

To set the scene, I was fresh out of college for social services. I thought I was going to save the world. And I was also fresh out of a long term relationship. I was only 21. It was the tail end of high school through the first bit of college, so I didn't know much about dating. So I was fresh faced all around and I decided to try online dating. I saw this picture pop up. This dude, tattoos, cute eyes, really nice. His name was Dan. I will use his real name. I'll tell you why after.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Courtney]

So pretty quickly I realized he had some issues around substances and addictions. So I thought, okay, I can save him, right? I mean, I took the class.

[Dax Shepard]

Can we also add, you're in Canada. You're no stranger to people drinking for sure. Yeah.

[Courtney]

So he would disappear a few days at a time, and then he would come back sometimes and he would be hungry and tired and promise it wouldn't happen again. And then he would disappear again.

[Dax Shepard]

Do we know what his drug of choice was?

[Courtney]

It was crack and cocaine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay.

[Courtney]

So he shows up at my door one day. He is disheveled, shirt was ripped, he's sweating, he's pale, he's looking out my window. I lived on a third story of a building. He's darting back and forth going, dan, what is the problem? What's happening here? And he's like, nothing, nothing. I said, no, something's going on. Why are you looking out my window? He says, listen, last night I did a smash and grab at the hardware store. So he threw a brick or a rock or something into the window, grabbed the quickest thing he could, a vacuum cleaner.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. Good luck getting some money out of that, right?

[Courtney]

And it's heavy. So he runs with this vacuum cleaner. He ended up selling it for drug money. So now he's at my house. No sooner does he finish telling me this story that there is a pounding on my door. They're like, police, open up. And Dan's saying, don't open the door. Don't open the door. They must have heard him. They bust through. Three police officers.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, they kicked the door down.

[Courtney]

I don't think it was locked. I think they just came in.

[Dax Shepard]

They used the door handle. Okay.

[Courtney]

Yeah, they were nice. So Dan takes off down the hallway towards my bedroom, and three officers quick after him. Next thing I hear is one of the officers go, he jumped. Oh, third story.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

[Courtney]

Three officers back, quick the other way and out my door. So I run to my bedroom window and look down, expecting to see him down there, because that's a big jump. But he's collapsed in front of the next building. The police caught up with him. I found out that adrenaline must have just kept him running, but he did injure his back. The building I live in at the time is not everybody knows each other. I go outside. Everyone's standing outside. It's a big scene. Police have to call an ambulance. Ambulance almost hits him. Backing up.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, oopsies.

[Courtney]

So I didn't break up with him. I visited him in the hospital while he was recovering. I stayed with him during his little stint in jail for his various crimes.

[Dax Shepard]

What was the extent of his injuries while he was in the hospital?

[Courtney]

He injured his back and his ankle, but was about three days he was in the hospital, and then he was okay. So I'm not even entirely sure what it. But he had a police officer 247 in the room in the hospital with him until they took him to jail.

[Monica Padman]

And you stayed with him while he was in jail?

[Courtney]

I did.

[Monica Padman]

Tell me about his redeemable qualities.

[Dax Shepard]

She said, cute eyes, tattoos everywhere.

[Courtney]

Actually, one of the tattoos, he came over one day and said, look at this and shows me. He's got my name tattooed across his neck. He was a hopeless romantic, an addict.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, shut up, Monica.

[Courtney]

I just adored him. So fast forward to he's in jail. It's now a few days later, and I'm noticing that everybody in the building, no one's talking to me. I go to check the mail, and people are staring. The only person that would talk to me was the man who lived directly below me. So I go knock on his door, sitting in his living room, and I'm venting. I'm like, no one's talking to me. I'm getting dirty looks. What is going on here?

[Dax Shepard]

He.

[Courtney]

He says, rumor has it you pushed Dan out the window.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, hold up. That's not where my. My mind went to. He had been stealing from everyone. In the apartment, they thought you pushed your boyfriend out the window.

[Courtney]

And I'm trying to start my career. I'm like, no. Then this man finishes telling me, and his boyfriend walks to the room, looks me up and down, goes, oh, my God. Murderer.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Jesus.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Courtney]

So I had to move.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. And did you stay with him?

[Courtney]

Two years I stayed with him. So why I'm using his real name is because, unfortunately, he did pass away from his addiction. He actually got clean. He met a girl, had some kids. He was doing really well. But he got cancer and within a few weeks of the diagnosis had passed away.

[Brittany]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's so sad.

[Courtney]

It was. But today would have been our anniversary. So I figure that's a little wink from him, being like, go ahead and.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell my craziness I put you through hell. But let me give you two of your three on your list.

[Monica Padman]

Manifestations.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Monica. On behalf of all addicts, I'm sorry.

[Courtney]

It was wild, but great.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure you learned a ton.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he go to treatment? How did he end up getting clean?

[Courtney]

We lost touch for a bit. I believe he did go to treatment. Then we got back into touch when he was doing well and he had some kids and he was happy.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he ever give you an amends?

[Courtney]

He did. He told me about a few things he had stolen from me that I never found out about. And he did apologize. Sweetest guy.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, man. Well, I'm sorry you went through that.

[Monica Padman]

Me too. Also, shame on you for pushing him out the window.

[Dax Shepard]

I might have helped get him sober, though.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I'm just so surprised he made it as far as he did with his injuries. He used to say, if they want me, they have to catch me.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. And they sure did.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, Monica, I'm sorry you went through that. But also, you know, if you're laying on your deathbed in 80 years and you have literally nothing of excitement to look back on, I don't know that that's a win either. So you got a chapter in your life that was harrowing. Is that a positive spin?

[Courtney]

I think that's perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's lovely meeting you. I want you to stay warm in this. What are they calling this one? It's some kind of cold snap. You know this, Monica. Whole middle of the country's in some crazy. Yeah, maybe even. Is Georgia cold?

[Monica Padman]

It wasn't when I was there. And I haven't heard anything, so hopefully not.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Well, Monica, happy New Year. We're wishing you all the best.

[Courtney]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Bye. Bye. 40 degrees in Georgia. It was a snow on Friday.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Snow.

[Dax Shepard]

Get your skis out.

[Monica Padman]

Nermie fun 40s.

[Dax Shepard]

The high 26 is the low 26.

[Monica Padman]

That is chilly.

[Phoenicia]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi. How are you?

[Brittany]

I'm great. How are you?

[Dax Shepard]

Good. Is this Phoenicia?

[Brittany]

This is Phoenicia.

[Dax Shepard]

Where are you?

[Brittany]

I am in Phoenix, Arizona.

[Monica Padman]

You're not too far away from us.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, let me just list the things I love about Arizona. Of course. Home of Flaky Jake's. If you listen to the show, know that's my obsession. But also you can drive a dune buggy down the highway there.

[Brittany]

Yeah. And on the main roads, there's like tractors and stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

Love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you dated a criminal, which is very exciting.

[Brittany]

So exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

So exciting. Please walk us through it.

[Brittany]

I'm single and like most singles, I go on dating apps. And I had match with this guy. I will say I was so taken back by his good looks that all logic went out the window.

[Dax Shepard]

It's powerful, right?

[Brittany]

It sure is. Especially with the blue eyes. We. We started talking and we quickly moved the conversation to text. And he's like, I'll just call you. And I was like, okay, cool. He calls me. We're on the phone and he's like, hey, how do you pronounce your name? And I said, phoenicia. And he's like, phoenicia, Phoenicia. I like how that rolls off my tongue.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, okay.

[Brittany]

It kind of came off as a little weird, but I again didn't think anything of it. And so we start talking about where we should go out for our first date. And he's like, well, I want to take you bike riding at night near a canal. And I was like, I don't think that's appropriate for a first date.

[Monica Padman]

What? Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to. Hold on. I want to take you bike riding at night by a canal.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's so specific.

[Dax Shepard]

That's one step away from I want to take you on a date next to a six foot hole I dug.

[Brittany]

Hi. I want to murder you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

So I was like, no, that's not appropriate for a first date. Let's just meet during the day in public. So we agreed to meet for lunch the next day. Day lunch goes well. He's super good looking in person too. After the date, he walks me to my car and he's like, I've had a good time. I want to see you again. And he kind of has me like up against My car. Because he walked me to my car. And he's leaning forward. He's like, we really need to go on that bike ride. And I was like, I don't want to go. He's like, I think we really should go. I was like, I don't even have a bike. He's like, I have a bike for you. We can go. I know of a great spot. You can see the stars. And I was like, I don't think so.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, first of all, I just want to applaud your boundaries.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think a lot of people, when meeting someone that's gorgeous, they're trying to go along with anything just to keep everything moving forward. And so I'm already pretty impressed. Although I also hope you end up on this bike ride so we know what happens on it.

[Brittany]

I don't think I would be here if I ended up on that bike ride.

[Monica Padman]

I'm glad you did not do that.

[Brittany]

So he's like, I'll call you later. I'm like, okay. So I'm driving home and I'm like, oh, crap. I did not ask him the one question I asked guys before I meet them. Have you ever been arrested? And I also look them up before I go out with them because better safe than sorry. But again, being so googly eyed about his good looks, I didn't think about it. And so I text him, I'm like, hey, have you ever been to jail? And he's like, no. I was like, have you ever been arrested? He's like, no. I'm like, okay. So later that night, he calls me and we're just catching up about our day. And he brings up the bike ride again.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Brittany]

He's like, you have to go. It's so nice. At this point, I was getting really turned off.

[Phoenicia]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

And just didn't understand why he was being so pushy and not respecting my boundaries. So I was like, mm, mm. We ended the conversation. I got home, I looked him up online, and to my shock, that previous month he had been arrested for assault and battery, kidnapping.

[Ariana]

Oh.

[Brittany]

Disorderly conduct.

[Dax Shepard]

What?

[Monica Padman]

My God.

[Brittany]

And I was like, what the hell?

[Dax Shepard]

Really quick. How do you find that info out? I think people might benefit from knowing how you discovered that you can find.

[Brittany]

Out a lot about a person with their phone number, which is kind of the scary part. So I had his phone number. I went on one of the websites, just typed it in. His first name, last name came up.

[Dax Shepard]

Did they match who he had said he was?

[Brittany]

Yes, that did match. And the age, too. And Then you take that information and depending on where you live, for us it's Maricopa County. So like the Maricopa County Superior Court website, that's where you would go. And then you click on criminal and you would just fill in their name. And if they have anything for criminal or even legal or family, it comes right up.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh wow. Someone smart should put that in a one step app.

[Monica Padman]

A new app.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Safety screener. And then you can type in someone's name and then it does all that stuff for you and just gives you a laundry list of what they've done.

[Lily Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Brittany]

So I text him, of course, because I'm curious. I want to push the limits a little. And I was like, so one more time, have you ever been arrested? Have you ever been to jail? And he's like, no. And I was like, okay. So I blocked him and I didn't talk to him again.

[Dax Shepard]

Did it cross your mind to alert law enforcement? Like, hey, this dude is trying to get people to go on this bike ride. He's clearly courting a victim. Oh, I don't mean to make you feel guilty.

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't think it would work.

[Brittany]

I didn't, I didn't want to toy with that and open a whole pot of worms that I probably wasn't equipped to carry. But I was just like, what the hell?

[Monica Padman]

We also know from the stalking episodes they can't do anything unless it's already happened, unfortunately.

[Brittany]

And because I didn't go on the bike ride, I don't have anything to report. But for the longest time, when I would drive by a canal, I would just look at it and get like this eerie feeling. And then for a while, there were bodies that were being found in the canal.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, have you looked him up? Breeze? How long ago was this?

[Brittany]

This was about a year ago. Yes, I did look him up after I made the submission and he pleaded guilty to some of the charges.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he did. So he's likely in jail currently, I would hope.

[Brittany]

I don't think he is, because I did see him on the app last week.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. How can you admit to kidnapping and not be in jail?

[Brittany]

Looks good. Lawyer. I have no clue he's on the apps.

[Monica Padman]

That's bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Okay, so, ladies and dudes, do a double check. Once you get that number, run it through Fenecia's system and make sure they have no record of kidnapping.

[Monica Padman]

Yikes.

[Brittany]

Before I got in the relationship last year, my friend did, like, an extensive background check on the guy. I will say I'm very diligent now, and I don't get blindsided by the good looks anymore.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, you did the right thing the whole time. It sounds like you kept yourself safe.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, dudes weaponize those good looks that you look at a lot of these serial killers, and they're quite handsome.

[Brittany]

It can be captivating because if a.

[Dax Shepard]

Gargoyle invites you on a bike ride, it's easy to say, no, thank you.

[Monica Padman]

That is true.

[Brittany]

Yeah. I always joke that if I did get kidnapped, it's because he had a good car. He was good looking or puppy. That's how he lured me in, Jax. Okay, so I have been freaking out all week. To say that I love you would be an understatement of the year. You've been one of my first crushes. And as I've gotten older and learned more about you, I just fall more in love with you.

[Phoenicia]

Aww.

[Dax Shepard]

You're playing it very cool.

[Brittany]

Thank you. Well, I think it's great, the work that you're doing and how you've been vulnerable and sharing your struggles with other people. I used to work as a substance abuse counselor. Although I don't have experience firsthand with addiction, I have seen what it does to people and how it's hard for them to overcome it. So I just love that you're vulnerable enough to share that with people.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Brittany]

And if I could give one shout out to my kids, please.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Brittany]

Do we listen to your show all the time? I vet the episodes, and then once I know they're kid friendly, we listen to them. But I just want to give out shout out to Brody and Liam. My youngest was a little bummed that he couldn't be here today. He said little kids have stories to share too.

[Dax Shepard]

We should start. A kid's version of Armchair Anonymous would be hilarious.

[Brittany]

I think you should. But thank you guys so much. Love you too, Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care.

[Brittany]

Bye.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello? Hello? Can you hear us?

[Ariana]

Hey, guys. Yes, I can hear you.

[Dax Shepard]

Look at this Screen. That is a freeze Frame on punk. Oh, 2003.

[Ariana]

2003. Yes. I thought it'd be a nice little homage to you because it kind of reminded me a little bit about the story I'm going to share today.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful. Where are you?

[Ariana]

I would like to use a fake name, but I am in the pnw. We're going to go with Ariana for this story.

[Monica Padman]

Ariana Grande, timely, kind of a little.

[Ariana]

Bit of a VPR connection because I'm going to call the criminal boyfriend Tom here.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, wait, what's vpr?

[Ariana]

Vanderpump Rules.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I should have known that you.

[Dax Shepard]

Know all about Vanderpump Rules.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know all about, but I know enough that I should have gotten that and I'm embarrassed and I'm going to cut it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So, just kidding. Tom and Ariana. Somewhere in the vague Pacific Northwest.

[Ariana]

So I'm up here now, but this story actually takes place down in your region. San Fernando valley. I'm a SoCal native, but I've been up here since a little bit after this story. This story takes place between 2012 and 2013. I was about 22 at the time. I'd been in a really serious relationship. It ended after six years and I was single for the first time. And it'd been a tumultuous year for me. My mom was really sick with cancer. I'd been taking care of my grandpa that passed away. And I just was kind of deep in the trenches of life and just trying to figure out what adulthood was going to look like for me. I was single, living alone. And I had also, right after that long relationship ended, transitioned into a new job where I was an apartment manager. And I was managing a pretty large multifamily low income complex in the Valley. I was in way over my head. I had a manager's unit that came with my salary and so I had a detached little four bedroom townhouse house unit in the complex. And I had gotten two roommates at the time and so the three of us were living there. And what do you do when you're single and young in the Valley and you don't know how to date? I started a couple online dating profiles.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Ariana]

2012, not a really familiar thing. I guess I should have known more about the red flags at many points in the story, but I didn't. And so that's what led me to meet Tom. So he invited me and one of my roommates over one night. Just come over and hang out. We'll have some drinks.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I ask really quick on the dating profile, what was it that caught your attention?

[Ariana]

He definitely had like a bit of a bad boy element. And like the pictures and his correspondence.

[Dax Shepard]

Was he the opposite of the six year long boyfriend?

[Ariana]

He was the opposite. So we went over there, had a little night of fun, just hanging out, pretty casual. I do remember, like his house was really gross and he was also living with his grandpa, which I just remember catching the grandpa in a hospital bed in one of the rooms of the house. We kept it casual for a few months. I was still dating around. It wasn't like anything exclusive. But then one weekend he called me and said, hey, I need a favor. My grandpa wrote me this check and I lost my wallet and I need your help. Can I sign it over to you? And you just put it in your bank account. Like when the money clears, I'll give you a little bit as a kickback, a thank you for helping me out. I was really young and naive and didn't realize that I was clearly about to commit some check fraud. And I did it.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you remember how much it was for?

[Ariana]

I think it was for $800. Somewhere in that range maybe he told me he'd give me like $200 out of it or something. But of course my bank account ended up overdrawn. My account was flagged for fraud. And I remember sorting through it and just letting it go and feeling this is like a bad guy in my life. But I just continue to talk to him for no really great reason at this point. I just kind of kept getting sucked in.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I great reason. Your grandfather just died, your mother's super sick, you're in overhead, you need comfort. Any little burp of comfort you're going.

[Monica Padman]

To seek, that's impossible to resist in a moment like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Ariana]

Yeah. Thanks guys. It's a big part of my life that I'm not super proud of, but kind of put a pin in that situation at the check and fast forward. The next probably six months are just utter chaos with this guy. He weasels his way into living in my apartment, says, oh, I could be another roommate. You have a third room still available. And just takes over every facet of my life. I destroys the apartment, ultimately chases my roommates out. You know, I was doing a lot of shady stuff, but I also am not fully aware of what's going on and still kind of having like a blind eye to some of it. There was a lot of introduction to some recreational, harder drugs at the time and everything was Just kind of a big messy blur. And I was going down the road of fuck around and find out, but just was enjoying the ride, I guess, as I was going along with it. So fast forward again to close to my birthday later the next year in 2013. We had gone out to dinner to go visit my parents. And we're driving home and the apartment complex is gated, and I go through the gate and my unit is attached just to the left. And as I'm pulling in, it's nighttime and it's dark, but there's street lights in the parking lot. I can see what looks like people going in and out of my apartment, not roommates. And I get a little bit closer and I can see what's going on is my apartment is being robbed all out in the open.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Ariana]

I see a couple pickup trucks and a handful of guys carrying lamps. I see like an end table being brought out.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my. I can't imagine your possessions at 22 were all that valuable.

[Ariana]

They were not all that valuable.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like robbing goodwill at this point.

[Ariana]

Exactly. As I'm looking at the situation unfold, I can see these guys are not strangers. I recognize them as a trio of kind of motorcycle, gay slash Russian mobster vibe folks that my ex boyfriend Tom at the time had introduced to me as friends a few weeks earlier. When I met them, it was a very uncomfortable vibe, as most of the company that he was keeping were. But they were friendly enough. There was a leader of the pack, we'll call him Mishka. And Mishka, at one point when I had met him, had told me how he had a deep passion for martial arts. He was wondering if he could teach class to the underprivileged children in my community that I was managing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Ariana]

It was a really oddly specific request that stuck out a lot. And you know, I thought, okay, well, maybe these guys aren't so bad, but also, maybe they're not great. And also, within that time frame, after meeting him, my ex boyfriend had brought home like a felony amount of weed. There was at least a few big bags that I had seen and feeling way in over my head, but not realizing the level of criminal activity of the partner that I in the trenches with. You know, I saw the weed and then a couple days later I didn't see it, and I just didn't really ask any questions. I knew that he had sourced it from these guys, and that's kind of where I left it. So I assumed that whatever was going on had something to do with drug deal gone bad. Some retaliation here of robbing my apartment. Although he was living there, it was filled with my stuff, of course. Cause he was not contributing a lot to the situation. And so I see these guys, and I'm like, what in the world is going on? And he tells me, go over to your manager's office unit, which was on the other side of the parking lot. Like, lock the doors, close the windows. I'll take care of it. Just don't call the police. I go over there, and I also have security cameras in there, so I can see everything that's going on in the unit. And it was close enough that I could also kind of see through the window a little bit. And I'm just watching for what feels like probably like a half an hour or so.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Ariana]

And I'm just seeing Tom just flailing his arms, yelling, trying to slow them down. And they're not trying to, like, attack him or take him out or anything, but they're just continuing to, like, one by one, oh, my God. Take everything out into a handful of pickup trucks that they had brought in their motorcycles. And then the strangest thing occurred. And I'm watching, and all of a sudden, Tom and Mishka just embrace in this, like, big bear hug. I'm looking at the camera, and it looks like there could be tears falling. I am not sure what's going on. And then all of a sudden, like, it's a flip of the switch. These guys just start systematically unloading everything back into my apartment. Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Ariana]

What? Tom is helping them unload everything. I saw them embracing, like, another hug at the end, and that was it.

[Monica Padman]

Wild.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you came to find out they were just there to execute a deep clean. They're like, we gotta get everything out to shampoo these carpets.

[Ariana]

Check for something. Maybe they were looking for the weed. Who knows? Tom just said it was a misunderstanding and kind of swept it under the rug. And of course, I knew that this was a building block to something not good brewing. And these guys are in my home, in my place of work.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you have a sense that if you asked Tom to leave, he wasn't going to comply? Like, did you feel like you had lost even the ability to get rid of him?

[Ariana]

Absolutely. I narrowed this down for kind of a more humorous and entertaining aspect, but it was a pretty bad and dark period of time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. And isn't it crazy? We take on the shame of having not advocated for ourself yet. We're so clearly the victim. But. But it's hard to not feel some weird shame. I think that's why criminality can persist in the way it does.

[Ariana]

Yes, things didn't end so well for him either, which also circles back to those feelings of a lot of guilt and shame. But I'll loop back to where this all ties together. So I swept it under the rug, wanted to believe that was it. Spoiler it wasn't. So about another month passed by, and at this point, our relationship is really falling apart, which is good. He was not staying in the apartment with me anymore. It was a Saturday night and I'm just blowing off some steam, partying a bit with some friends and another kind of romantic partner that I had who was a close friend. Kind of the person I really wanted to be with at the time. But I was hindered by this leash from the villain in the story. And in any case, we're partying, we're doing a little Molly. I haven't talked to the other guy friend in this story since then. And I called him last night in preparation and said, hey, do you remember this crazy night 12 years ago? And he was like, oh my God, you know, I got a bad memory. But I remember that like it was yesterday. Like, let me tell you, it was not cool. So he helped me fine tune the details. And there was him and two friends, and we're rolling balls in the trenches at this point. He reminded me we were doing like a little massage train on the ground. We have the lights, the music, and then all of a sudden the front door swings open and in comes this Mishka mobster.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Ariana]

He prances right in and is like, hey, what are you guys doing? You having a. Where's Tom? And we're obviously deep in an altered state, hence why my door wasn't locked. And I was just incoherent to the situation, but also trying to figure out, is this guy gonna shoot us? What is going on here? What is he looking for? Two others of the pack were just hanging out by the door outside. So it was not a great setup. Quite uncomfortable. I'm sure it would have been a lot worse if I was in a sober mind state. But my friend recalled that he came and just like sat at the table, was like, we've been looking for Tom for quite a while. I know he's to be here. I mean, I see his dog here. We had a dog at the time that we had got during our relationship, and he had left the dog with me and flee to San Diego. And so I had the Dog. And it's like, I don't know where he is. Look around. He's not here. I don't have anything to do with whatever is going on with you guys, but you need to go. And he really was hung up on the dog aspect. Like, there's no way this guy's gonna leave his dog behind. He loves his dog.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like a genius detective all of a sudden and thinks he's really figured something out.

[Ariana]

My friend also recalled that he definitely saw they were armed and that he had a gun on him. I've blocked out a lot of elements of this, but I'm sure that had something to do with the level of interrogation. It was such a creepy demeanor. Like, he was friendly, but obviously he was not there to hang out. And he ultimately was like, all right, well, make sure you let him know we're looking for him. He did ask on the way out, like. And remember, I'm really serious about that martial arts class for the kids in the community here.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, please give me a.

[Ariana]

Call to talk about.

[Monica Padman]

So weird.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like a Guy Ritchie movie. The guy feels like a Nora really wants to teach someone martial arts.

[Ariana]

Yeah. He was not letting that part go. So he left. We were okay. And shortly after, things were quickly unraveling, and obviously I was trying to desperately get out of this relationship, and I was lamenting to a mutual friend. I just feel so stupid. I shouldn't know. Not that first red flag of the check fraud incident when we were first dating to kick this guy to the curb. And she laughed and said, you know, he's done this before. Don't you know his Judge Judy story?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Ariana]

And I said, no. I got on the computer that night, did a little Google search, and there he was as a defendant on Judge Judy for scamming a very innocent foreign exchange student that he had met at Six Flags Magic Mountain.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Ariana]

For check fraud.

[Dax Shepard]

This is so bizarre.

[Ariana]

It was not great. So it was a pretty full circle moment and pretty embarrassing, but also like, well, this is what it is. But I was ultimately able to break free from him after a couple more months of turmoil. And I decided pretty quickly after the second interrogation incident in my apartment that I just needed to get away. I was in way over my head with a very active criminal. So I ended up moving up here to the pnw, and it was the best decision of my life. I met my husband a year or so after I moved up here, and we have a great blended family and a beautiful five year Old daughter. She just celebrated her fifth birthday, actually, two days after your big birthday, Dax. Oh, you guys are almost birthday twins.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you ever find out through the grapevine what happened to Tom? He couldn't have been long for this world in freedom.

[Ariana]

I did. After we split up and I came up here, he moved, I think, to live with family in Indiana, presumably on the run. God only knows how many other activities were going on and people were looking for him. But I did learn from a mutual friend a few years after he'd been here that he ultimately committed suicide.

[Dax Shepard]

He did.

[Ariana]

Even though he brought so much misery and chaos and just destruction to my life and to his, there were obviously parts of him that were redeeming. And it's hard when you go through such a dark period of time with somebody and have a lot of remorse and resentment. But I felt like when that happened, it helped me understand that a lot of his actions towards me were coming from something that I could not comprehend.

[Dax Shepard]

You're not generally choosing that life path because things are going well and you're feeling good, kind of an AA thing. But it's often helpful to remember that the people that you resent and have harmed you, they're the ones that will live with their mistakes. You don't live with their mistakes. You live with your mistakes, and people live with their own mistakes. And the bill comes due. No one really gets away with anything. Maybe they don't go to jail, maybe they don't die, but the suffering is gonna be there. You can't avoid that.

[Ariana]

That's very good insight. It's been a long time. I really put a lot of this behind me, and I'm really happy and have made a lot of good choices since then. But it's a tough part of my story overall. But it was also the defining moment and action that really changed everything. And, you know, I fantasized about telling you guys some portion of this story for a long time. It's a real dream come true.

[Monica Padman]

Well, we're really grateful you shared it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's a wild one.

[Ariana]

I remember hearing in a episode a couple weeks ago, you guys were like, oh, we need to do, like, a time. You were dating a drug dealer, dating a criminal. And then here it is, here we are. It's going to be my time to shine.

[Dax Shepard]

Somebody's listening. They're like, I know they're going to have a if you've been trampled by an elephant prompt someday, just rest assured, every prompt will come.

[Ariana]

Lot of crazy things that I told in just this Little part, but it was a doozy. It branched out into a lot of other crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm glad you lived through it and it made you who you are, stronger.

[Ariana]

Thank you. All right, thanks, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Bye. We are supported by Tropical Smoothie Cafe. Do you know what time it is? Well, at Tropical Smoothie Cafe, it's always tropic time. That's because when you take a break and taste the tropics with their made to order smoothies, bowls and wraps, every sip and bite feels like a little trip to a tropic resort. I love this idea of tropic time. It's that bit of brightness and refreshment we need when the days are shorter and darker during the winter months. Transport me to a tropical beach with the sun shining and the sound of ocean in the background. What a dream. And Tropical Smoothie Cafe just released two brand new tropic bowls. The Dragon fruit bowl with goji berries and the Acai bowl with Nutella. Try them today and get ready for some tropic time. Visit tropicalsmoothicafe.com to find a cafe near you. We are supported by Ollie. With the new year starting, it's the perfect time to find ways to make this year better than the last. Focusing on your wellness is a great way to do that. Ollie is here to help with supplements that make wellness a daily habit that's both tasty and good for you. Start your days on a bright note with vitamin D and hello happy. Keep the good vibes going in your gut with Ollie probiotics and even end your night on a restful note with Ollie sleep. That's where I get down. I love the Ollie sleeps and I take them often. They're delicious. However you want to improve your wellness routine in 2025, Ollie has a product product that's perfect for you. So do wellness on your terms, whatever that looks and feels like for you with Ollie. Find Ollie at a Walmart or Target near you [e-mail] that's o L-L-Y.com.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello. Sorry, I was just polishing off my. My pre workout drink. How are you?

[Phoenicia]

I'm good. How are you guys?

[Dax Shepard]

Wonderful. It looks like you're in a yurt.

[Monica Padman]

Did you make a four?

[Phoenicia]

Well, my cousin and my best friend made a fort for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that was nice of them.

[Phoenicia]

It's like every blanket in my house and I think there are rooms stuck to chairs. It's pretty impressive.

[Monica Padman]

People get really innovative.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's pray there's not a structural collapse mid story.

[Phoenicia]

One of them's a contractor. So I have faith you're in good hands.

[Monica Padman]

Integrity in that for.

[Phoenicia]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Courtney, where are you in the world?

[Phoenicia]

I'm outside of Portland, Oregon, in Beaverton, Oregon.

[Dax Shepard]

The home of my brother. Beaverton's lovely.

[Phoenicia]

It's wonderful.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you dated a criminal?

[Phoenicia]

I did. This was in 2012. I was 18, almost 19, in college, away from home for the first time.

[Dax Shepard]

Where were you at?

[Phoenicia]

Down in Southern Oregon. I went to go visit a friend who went to a different school about three hours away. He was having a party. Lived in this big house with a bunch of roommates. Roommates. And I meet. Sorry, there's a cat intruding on me. I meet this guy at the party, and we just instantly clicked. Super handsome. We talked the whole night. He said that he wasn't a student. He was actually an assistant professor at the school. But he was close to our age, just a little bit older, and, yeah, had a great time with him. And when I leave and go back home, we keep texting and talking constantly. And a week or so goes by. I knew so much about him. Him. He was really close with his family. His grandparents took him in when he was little because his mom died really tragically. He told me about his ex, who was a liar and a cheater and. Just awful. Anyways, I decided to go back up and meet him for a weekend. I was really looking forward to it. I get there, and we're walking up to his room, and he just mentions something as we're walking in. He's like, oh, yeah, I just vacuumed for you. And we get in there and the floor is disgusting. I don't know why he would lie about that, but it was obviously a lie. Don't really think anything else of it. I stay the night, and I had to go home the next day. But as I'm getting ready to go, I get a Facebook message, and it's from someone I don't know, but I recognize the name, and it's his ex girlfriend.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. The lying, cheating bitch.

[Phoenicia]

Yep. And I read it, and he's staring at me, and it says, I want you to beware of Dee. I wish someone would have warned me he ruined my life. And I just stop and look up at him, and I literally was like, oh, my God, she is such a bitch. She's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

You lied about the floor, but you were right about the ex.

[Phoenicia]

I know. It's so ridiculous. I go back to my school. Life goes on. We keep talking. He says that he wants to come visit me next and his car is in the shop or something. So he gets on a Greyhound bus to come see me. I pick him up from the bus station. Did. And he gets off. He has like a giant suitcase, a duffel bag and a backpack.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Phoenicia]

And he's just gonna stay one night with me.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Phoenicia]

Whatever. Who cares? Maybe it's full of presents for me. I don't know. And we go back to my apartment, have a great time. Things seem normal. That was a Friday or a Saturday. On Sunday, I'm like, hey, what time do we need to go back to the Greyhound station? And he just kind of like, well, I have a surprise for you. I took some time off work, and fall break is coming up soon, so I don't have to go back. I get to stay Day.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

Now really quick, from Friday till Sunday. Is your attraction to him staying completely consistent and strong? Is it growing or is it dissipating? Are there other things where you're like, ah, he's not as great as I.

[Phoenicia]

Thought that would happen here and there. But then he would do something that made me feel so special.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Love bombs.

[Phoenicia]

So him telling me, like, I'm not leaving was the first time I remember really feeling off about him, though. But again, whatever. I'm 19 and don't yet know how to stand up for myself. Hotel. And he stays. He doesn't have a car there, so he is driving me and my car to school every day while he just sits at my house. One day, I remember coming home and I had had $200 sitting on the counter, and I'm like, hey, where did that money go? Well, what money? Oh, the money that was right here. No one else has been here. What do you mean? Oh, yeah. Oh, that money. Well, I remember how you said that you wanted to stop spending so much. Oh, my gosh. So I hid it from you.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, thanks, dad.

[Monica Padman]

Also, what a dumb excuse.

[Phoenicia]

I get pissed. I'm like, where is it? Give it back. Well, I put it in the TV speaker.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Phoenicia]

We. I had. Yeah, I said we. I. My apartment, my life.

[Monica Padman]

Say it on repeat, right?

[Phoenicia]

It's been a long time. It's still a problem. Apparently you remember those big screen TVs, but they were boob tubes and they had the speakers on the bottom and they sat on those. He's like, I pushed it through there. So if you really want it, I can get it out, but I'll have to take the whole TV apart. My cash stayed in the tv. I don't know I sort of believed it. I wasn't fully there, but I also kind of believed it, which is terrible.

[Monica Padman]

Also, how would he get it in if he couldn't get it out?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, in addition to being an associate professor, he's also a master mechanic.

[Monica Padman]

But you said he couldn't get it out without taking apart the tv.

[Phoenicia]

He said he pulled it up and like shoved it in there. Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Phoenicia]

A while later, I don't remember exactly how long, but probably a month or so and weird things happen in between.

[Monica Padman]

He's still there at the apartment.

[Dax Shepard]

He's still there a month later?

[Phoenicia]

Yep. I am going to visit my mom who lives in Hawaii and I'm going to go for like a week or 10 days or something. So he drives me and of course he's going to stay at my apartment and take care of my dog really quick.

[Dax Shepard]

And this is not to try to shame you for not poking holes, just a genuine curiosity. Once it had gone beyond two weeks, which was the initial concept, which is spring break or whatever the break was, what was his explanation for why he wasn't returning?

[Phoenicia]

That he wanted to be with me and he was gonna find his own place down here. Also, I was just at a point in my life where I had very low self esteem and the fact that this boy was showing interest in me and making me feel special, it was like, I gotta hold on to it.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Phoenicia]

So he drives me to the airport and drops me off in my car, kiss him goodbye. He drives away and little do I know that's going to be the last time I ever see him. So get on this 6ish hour flight, land, turn my phone back on and I have 37 missed calls.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Phoenicia]

And so I'm panicking and there are a lot from my dad and there are some from one unknown number. And so I listened to the first voicemail and it's my dad and he's just like b. In the past few hours, over $5,000 has been racked up on my credit card that you have for emergencies.

[Monica Padman]

Oh no.

[Phoenicia]

And you better hope it wasn't you because cops are involved and I'm just like, what the fuck? And I rip open my wallet and there it is in the back. Never touched. I have it right. And I listen to another voicemail and the other number turns out to be a detective. Find out. My dad reported this detective goes to my apartment, finds my front door wide open. My dog was gone. I guess a neighborhood found my dog running around the parking lot and scooped him up. Detective said that he didn't. He doesn't know what I had in there, but it looks like things might not be right. There's nothing with the TV. The TV's huge, but there's no back then, like, DVD player and cable box. All of that's gone. And my car, of course, is not there either.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Phoenicia]

Just a nightmare.

[Dax Shepard]

Brittany, can I ask you a quick question, please?

[Phoenicia]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You got a little emotional at that part. And I'm curious, when dad enters the equation, are you so ashamed he knows this?

[Phoenicia]

Is that why I didn't even first go to. It's him.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Phoenicia]

I was confused and angry that my dad could think I did this. And then feeling like I'm gonna have to defend myself because I have the card. It's not like I lost it. I never even touched it. It's for emergencies. But then when my car's not there, my dad, of course, owns my car. Just an old Camry, but he reports it stolen. And Dee and I were texting a little bit. My dad was like, it's gotta be him. And the detective said to just act normal if I can. Don't talk to him about this. And so we didn't talk on the phone. I remember saying I had bad service. And I'm there with my mom. She's helping me. So a few days go by, and the detective calls me again, and he says, we followed up with some of the stores that the purchases were made. One of them was the Walmart right next to my house. And there were physical purchases in the store while I'm on the plane. And he goes, we have the video of who did it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Phoenicia]

And he emails it to me, and I pull it up, and it's loading, and it's grainy, and it's black and white, and I'm watching it, like, stops on the purchase. And it's not him. It's not Dee.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's not?

[Monica Padman]

Is it the girlfriend plot twist?

[Phoenicia]

It's a woman, but she's older. It wasn't the ex girlfriend, but so now in my mind, I'm like, oh, thank God it's not D. He's still wonderful and wonderful.

[Dax Shepard]

Ish.

[Phoenicia]

I'm not dating a terrible person.

[Monica Padman]

You feel validated in your own choices in life. It's like, oh, I didn't pick this horrible person. That's what the relief really is. My judgment isn't this bad.

[Phoenicia]

Yeah. And so a few more days go on. I get another call from the detective, and he says, we found Your car? Dee was driving it. They pulled him over, I guess he instantly confessed to everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Phoenicia]

He had somehow made a copy of the credit card. He had been making purchases before this with it, but they were spread out and not major. He said, I'm gonna return all of it. I was just borrowing it. They arrest him, of course. Take him to the little jail in my tiny town. And the detective then tells me, you need to know. The phone call that he made, made while we had. Past tense. Had him in custody. I don't remember if he played the recording for me or if he told me, but. Woman answers and he says, mom, they caught us.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, they caught us.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, this is wild.

[Dax Shepard]

I did not see mom entering the chat.

[Phoenicia]

Me either. Mom who's supposed to be dead.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I forgot that part. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

A mother, son, con team.

[Monica Padman]

So she's like kind of Munchausensy, I guess, a little bit. He sucks, but she probably sort of infected him.

[Dax Shepard]

What more did we find out?

[Phoenicia]

They released him. His arraignment is going to be two days later. Of course, he doesn't show up. It was over 20 charges, and they issue a warrant for his arrest. And time goes by. And meanwhile, I am trying to find him. I'm doing my own investigating, and I get, I would say, close to obsessed with investigations and criminology. And they never found him until two years ago, 20, 22.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Phoenicia]

He got pulled over. No, they arrested him, released him again.

[Monica Padman]

God, the system.

[Phoenicia]

And he didn't show up again. But in the end, my interest in investigating and criminology and all these things led to. I am now a licensed private investigator. Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

There are a lot of plot twists in this thing.

[Monica Padman]

A lot of these stories are people making lemonade out of bad raw.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, rotten lemons.

[Phoenicia]

There were a lot of other things between Ben and when I got licensed about a year ago ago that kept pushing me in this direction. But I love it, and I'm working on murder cases.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you ever reach out to the ex girlfriend who warned you to find out what she had gone through?

[Phoenicia]

I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

I would be very curious to know how similar her experience was.

[Phoenicia]

Yeah, I don't know why I haven't really thought about that.

[Monica Padman]

You should tell her it was the mom.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, maybe she knew.

[Monica Padman]

Well, don't you think she would straight up say in the message, look, he's a con man with his mom.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a mother and son con operation.

[Monica Padman]

Crazy, but it's real. Just ask him.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you would have Gone Mom's dad. Boy, she's a bitch and she's nuts.

[Phoenicia]

And now I'm the crazy new ex girlfriend. I just Learned about the 2022 arrest because I am a PI and I was able to pull these documents and I was going over it last night.

[Dax Shepard]

And was he arrested just from the skipping bail on the previous thing or were there new charges?

[Phoenicia]

I just looked based on the case number from my case back in 2012. But there probably are more.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I mean, he's probably had 12 more years of being a scoundrel.

[Monica Padman]

That's so long.

[Phoenicia]

Yeah. And then the fact that they just let him go again. Have you learned nothing?

[Dax Shepard]

Right?

[Monica Padman]

Wow, Brittany, that's really something.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Mom, they caught us.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's chilling.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right though, Monica. If we want to attempt to be as generous as possible. How fucked up was his childhood that his mother has enlisted him in her criminal pursuit?

[Monica Padman]

I mean, what's going on?

[Dax Shepard]

That's gotta be a very weird, dangerous.

[Monica Padman]

Thing have if your mom is grooming, you know, bringing you in. Exactly.

[Phoenicia]

And I wonder how much of the other things, because obviously most of what he told me was a lie. But I especially think about, like, his family because he would talk about, he's so close with his family and his grandparents and his aunt and tell me all of these stories, like, is that still happening?

[Monica Padman]

No. While this is happening, I think they're not real.

[Phoenicia]

All just made up in his head. Oh, who knows?

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's the most gruesome part of these experiences is like trying to parse out what was real and what wasn't real. And then ultimately you're trying to answer the question, did he actually like me or love me? Somehow you're trying to hold on to building a case for that. So you need him to have been truthful about some portion of it so that the other thing, you're just forced into that position.

[Phoenicia]

And it really fucked with my head for a long time. Time. To already have that low self worth. And then to think that I found somebody who loves me for me. And then it's like, oh, no, I was just a target.

[Dax Shepard]

It changes your worldview a bit, right. And it scares you about your own ability to protect yourself. It makes you feel more vulnerable in the world.

[Monica Padman]

It also confirms the wrong view you have of yourself. Like, oh, yeah, this thing. I thought I was unlovable. I guess I am. Because clearly this was the proof. It's cruel.

[Phoenicia]

Yeah. It took until 2020 for me to, I think, fully snap out of what happened. There was a marriage, a divorce, and to be like, okay, no, I am worthy. I'm a badass.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you are. We already know that.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm the lead character, motherfuckers.

[Phoenicia]

Exactly. So here we are.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, man. I do think this kind of experience does ruin a lot of people. So I'm happy for you.

[Monica Padman]

You're tough.

[Phoenicia]

Thank. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Brittany, this has been a delight. And what a series of twists.

[Monica Padman]

What a story. Thanks for sharing.

[Dax Shepard]

And now I have somebody. If I need to investigate anyone in the Pacific Northwest.

[Phoenicia]

Absolutely. I got you.

[Dax Shepard]

If you ever start investigating Dave shepherd for something, just do me a solid and overlook it all. Don't take any cases against my family members up there.

[Phoenicia]

I promise I will. Self employed. I get to choose. That's a deal.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Well, wonderful meeting you, Brittany. Thanks for telling us that.

[Phoenicia]

You guys too. Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care. There's a couple patterns here. Right. We saw right away there's something about a long term breakup and then the rebound that seems to be a little fertile for something. Almost all of them had just got out of a long relationship in high school. It's like they had their first kind of really innocent relationship, and then the next one, you're a little vulnerable for whatever reason.

[Phoenicia]

Very.

[Monica Padman]

Again, the sense of, am I worth loving? Probably not, because this other relationship didn't work. So you're just looking for confirmation.

[Dax Shepard]

I only speak for myself. When you're young and you're in these long relationships and it follows that pattern that relationships follow, which is like the good chemicals have worn off, the excitement has worn off, and now it's just that here and now, chemicals, and you're a little bored with the person and. And I can imagine your natural response to that is like, I need someone more exciting. The problem was not that that's the pattern of relationships, it's that, oh, I need someone a little more exciting next time maybe.

[Monica Padman]

Although with Phoenicia, she was just handsome. It's just sad that people prey on other people. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's a bummer. You know, I met someone at the Golden Globes, of all places. A woman who said, hey, I want to thank you for that narcissist episode. It helped me realize that my mother's a narcissist and answered a lot of things. So I guess my only hope for this would be if you're in a situation that is mirroring any of these details, the quicker you pull the plug, the better.

[Monica Padman]

And it's not a reflection of you.

[Dax Shepard]

No, but it's crossed paths.

[Monica Padman]

It's really hard to see that in the moment.

[Dax Shepard]

It is. Is. Well, I love you and I'm really glad that no criminal has ever prayed on you. Moni.

[Monica Padman]

Not yet.

[Dax Shepard]

Fingers crossed.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, is that a New Year's resolution to not ask me to knock on wood? Cuz that was a knock on wood moment if there ever was one.

[Monica Padman]

You're right, it wasn't a resolution. In fact, I think I knocked on wood yesterday.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, you did.

[Monica Padman]

There was a moment, but maybe I'm cutting back.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. I love you.

[Monica Padman]

You.

[Lily Padman]

Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[Ariana]

One of a theme song.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay, great. We don't have a them song for this new show, so here I go. Go go. We're going to add some random questions and with the help of arm cherries, we'll get some suggestions on the Fly Rhyme. Dish on the Fly Rhyme. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry App, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry App or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey new.

[Lily Padman]

Year, new resolutions, and this year on the Best Idea yet podcast, we're revealing the untold origins, origin stories of the products you're obsessed with, and we promise you have never heard these before. Ever wonder how the iconic Reese's Peanut Butter cup was invented? Because it was by accident. HB Reese, a former frog salesman, stumbled upon the idea after accidentally burning a batch of peanuts.

[Dax Shepard]

Classic.

[Lily Padman]

Proving that sometimes our best ideas arise from what seem like our biggest mistakes. And Jack, did you know there's a scientific explanation why humans crave that surprising combo of peanut butter and chocolate? I didn't, but it sounds delicious. It is delicious. So if you're looking to get inspired and creative this year, tune in to the best idea yet. You can find us on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're looking for more podcasts to help you start this year off right, check out New Year New Mindset on the Wondery App. Who knows your next great idea could be an accident that you burned. This is Nick and this is Jack, and we'll see you on the Best Idea Yet.