Armchair Anonymous: Jury Duty

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Summary: "Armchair Anonymous: Jury Duty"

Release Date: June 13, 2025

In this engaging episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, titled "Armchair Anonymous: Jury Duty," host Dax Shepard delves into the intricate and often unexpected experiences of serving on a jury. Joined by co-host Monica Padman and guests Tim Lovestead and Stacy, the conversation navigates the complexities, challenges, and surprising outcomes associated with jury duty in the American legal system.

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1. Tim Lovestead’s Intense Murder Trial Experience

Timestamp: [04:46] – [19:25]

Tim Lovestead kicks off the episode by recounting his unexpected journey from anticipating a routine jury duty assignment to being thrust into a high-stakes murder trial.

• Unexpected Assignment: Tim was summoned for jury duty, expecting a simple civil case. Instead, he found himself selected for a murder trial involving a road rage incident. "I never imagined that I would actually get picked for a murder trial," he shares at [05:25].

• Defendant's Self-Representation: The defendant was not only representing himself but was also the accused, creating a tumultuous courtroom environment. Tim describes, "He is the man accused of murder… he has decided to be his own attorney for a murder trial where he is up for life in prison" ([06:10]).

• Challenging Jury Dynamics: A particular juror, referred to as Mary, exhibited behavior that disrupted the proceedings. "I felt his evil spirit. He's guilty," Mary declared during deliberation ([18:03]).

• Trial Outcome: Despite the chaos, the jury convicted the defendant on all counts after about an hour of deliberation. Tim reflects, "We ended up convicting him of all of the counts," indicating the jury's quick consensus ([18:11]).

• Personal Impact: Tim expresses appreciation for the experience, noting, "So I appreciate it because as the trial went on… there clearly had a lot of issues," highlighting the profound effect the trial had on his perspective ([17:30]).

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2. Stacy’s Grand Jury Duty and the Green Widow Case

Timestamp: [45:22] – [57:03]

Stacy shares her unique experience serving on a grand jury in Manhattan, offering a window into the high-pressure environment of grand jury proceedings.

• Grand Jury Orientation: Stacy recounts the initial orientation, which included watching an instructional video featuring Sam Waterston from Law & Order ([23:35]).

• Notable Case – The Green Widow: The most gripping portion of Stacy's story involves the "Green Widow," Mary Ellen Samuel, accused of orchestrating a double murder for financial gain. "They are the Green Widow… they clearly had a lot of issues," Stacy explains ([49:56]).

• Courtroom Dynamics: Stacy describes the courtroom tension, particularly the defendant's disruptive behavior. "He was staring at all of us like he wanted to kill us," she remarks ([53:12]).

• Jury Deliberation: The jury grappled with both strong evidence and emotional testimonies. Despite protocol breaches, the jury convicted the defendant on multiple counts. "And we decide we're going to go through it one count at a time," Stacy notes during deliberation ([55:18]).

• Unexpected Outcome: After serving, Stacy received a personal connection through the trial, leading to a significant romantic development. "We end up dating and we end up getting engaged," she shares at [42:17].

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3. Ally’s Emotional Homicide Trial in Allentown

Timestamp: [32:14] – [44:48]

Ally provides a heartfelt account of serving on a homicide trial jury in Allentown, Pennsylvania, highlighting the emotional toll and personal challenges faced.

• Personal Struggles: Ally openly discusses her struggle with panic disorder and how it intensified during the trial. "I have really bad panic disorder… I was feeling a little bit brave," she confides ([32:14]).

• Panic Attack During Trial: Amidst heavy evidence presentation, Ally experiences a severe panic attack, leading to a temporary removal from the courtroom. "Everything is closing in, and I don't know what to do," she describes ([35:27]).

• Trial Proceedings: The trial involved a young defendant accused of a serious crime, with Ally emphasizing the weight of deciding someone's fate. "We are deciding this young man's fate," she states ([36:39]).

• Unexpected Romance: During a moment of distress, Ally meets a fellow juror, leading to a blossoming romance. "We realized we went to high school together… we end up dating and we end up getting engaged," she narrates ([41:24]).

• Reflecting on Justice: Ally reflects on the moral dilemmas of making life-altering decisions based on evidence and personal biases. "It's such a hard decision because if it was something like torture or pedophile, I don't know," she muses ([43:28]).

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4. Insights and Reflections on Jury Duty

Timestamp: [44:07] – [45:08]

As the episode concludes, Dax and Monica engage in a reflective discussion about the role of juries in the justice system.

• Jury of Peers: Dax highlights the genius behind the jury system, appreciating how it allows for community-based justice. "A jury of your peers is a genius invention… they have a way of finding the best version of justice," he asserts ([43:47]).

• Emotional Impacts: The guests underscore the emotional and psychological impacts of serving on a jury, emphasizing the profound responsibility jurors hold.

• Personal Growth: Both Tim and Stacy express personal growth and deeper understanding of the legal system through their experiences, acknowledging the life-changing nature of jury duty.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Lovestead: "I never imagined that I would actually get picked for a murder trial." ([05:25])

• Stacy: "They are the Green Widow… they clearly had a lot of issues." ([49:56])

• Ally: "We are deciding this young man's fate." ([36:39])

• Dax Shepard: "A jury of your peers is a genius invention… they have a way of finding the best version of justice." ([43:47])

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Conclusion

In "Armchair Anonymous: Jury Duty," Dax Shepard and his guests provide an unfiltered look into the realities of serving on a jury. Through Tim Lovestead’s intense murder trial, Stacy’s involvement in the high-profile Green Widow case, and Ally’s emotionally charged homicide trial, listeners gain a multifaceted understanding of the responsibilities, challenges, and unexpected outcomes of jury duty. The episode underscores the pivotal role jurors play in the justice system and the profound personal impacts these experiences can have.

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For more insightful discussions and personal stories, follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. Is the name of this show, correct? It'll never get easy for me to.

[Monica Padman]

Say, even though you have experience in the Anonymous land.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. But I'm supposed to say Alcoholics Anonymous beforehand, so once I'm on one paired word, I'm off. Also, as I told you earlier, when I see the word jury duty written on a piece of paper, I see Judge Judy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I understand that because I put.

[Dax Shepard]

The J on the duty.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Judy. Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I swapped the D and the J, which would really be Durie. Judy. But anyways, I see Judge Judy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Or should we have her as a juror?

[Dax Shepard]

Tell us a story about watching Judge Judy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

My friend has just become a judge.

[Ally]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was telling me a little bit about it, and I was like, that sounds really fun. You kind of are Judge Judy. He's like, people are lying to you. Like you. You just can't imagine.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you kind of gotta weed through it and kind of call him out on the lie.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm like, yeah, I think that's what Judge Judy did.

[Monica Padman]

Well, definitely.

[Dax Shepard]

So expertly.

[Monica Padman]

Can we do a judge prompt or. They're not probably allowed.

[Dax Shepard]

It would just be my friend.

[Monica Padman]

Well, he's a friend and he's only.

[Dax Shepard]

Been doing it for a couple months.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But he already has about a hundred stories, so maybe. Yeah, yeah. If you want to see some action. Kind of like 7 11. If you want to see some action, become a judge. It's super easy. This is jury duty. Tell us a crazy jury duty experience. This one's quite safe. And my sweet, sweet, longtime friend Tim Lovestead is making an appearance.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Friend of the pod.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, now, if officially, per your new definition, please enjoy jury duty or Judge Judy.

[Monica Padman]

Get into your body's vitals with the Vitals app on Apple Watch. The Vitals app tracks key overnight metrics so you can spot changes in your health before you feel them. The Vitals app ON Apple Watch iPhone XS are later required. The Vitals app is for wellness purposes only and not for medical use.

[Dax Shepard]

We are supported by Domino's. You'd be hard pressed to find two people that love Domino's more than you and I. It's an integral part of our friendship.

[Monica Padman]

When we were just baby friends, we.

[Dax Shepard]

Discovered we both Love Domino's. And we ordered it with reckless abandon. If you haven't tried Domino's new Parmesan stuffed crust pizza yet, what are you waiting for? With a buttery flavored crust, melty cheese, and real Parmesan sprinkled on top, every bite is absolutely packed with flavor. Order one today at Domino's. Come and go Good times take them slow My life, I had them both One thing you gotta know I'm gonna.

[Monica Padman]

Keep on shining Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello. Is this Ally?

[Tim Lovestead]

This is Ally.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you sound really good in my headphones?

[Tim Lovestead]

Oh, thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you feeling that audio, Monica?

[Monica Padman]

It does sound nice. Are you in the closet?

[Tim Lovestead]

I am in the closet. Just for you and Monica. I'm in a closet in Duluth, Georgia.

[Monica Padman]

Are you serious?

[Tim Lovestead]

I sure am. So every time I hear you talk about Duluth, I'm like, there's my girl. Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is so exciting.

[Tim Lovestead]

And I also went to uga.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you major in pr?

[Monica Padman]

Theater and pr?

[Tim Lovestead]

I did photojournalism and public health.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Tim Lovestead]

So weird combo.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you could photograph ill people in the public.

[Monica Padman]

You never know how the two will come together.

[Dax Shepard]

You really can't tell. Wow. Ally, did you serve jury duty in Duluth?

[Tim Lovestead]

Yeah, Gwinnett County.

[Monica Padman]

I'm already so connected to this story.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you want to ask her any geography questions like I do?

[Monica Padman]

Maybe the time I did ask for her exact address.

[Dax Shepard]

And do you want to ask her if she has any same favorite restaurants?

[Monica Padman]

What about in Athens? Have you been to Last Resort?

[Tim Lovestead]

How could you go to Athens and not go to Last Resort?

[Monica Padman]

Have you had the cake? The strawberry cake? My favorite cake in the whole world.

[Tim Lovestead]

Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

Or she goes, I'm sitting on one right now.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, Cecilia.

[Tim Lovestead]

They have a chicken dish there that is just the best.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, this is a thrill. I love this. I hope I run into you next time I'm home. I'm surprised I haven't.

[Tim Lovestead]

Well, I gave you my address, so come on.

[Monica Padman]

I'll come stalking.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, set the scene for your jury duty experience.

[Tim Lovestead]

It involves not only the man on trial, but also a fellow juror.

[Dax Shepard]

Perfect.

[Tim Lovestead]

It actually happened in December of 2024, so not that long ago. And it was my first time ever being summoned for jury duty, so I didn't really know what to expect. And as it got closer, friends and family would be like, oh, yeah, I've done it before. And it for a small claim or a civil dispute, nothing big. So I didn't really think I would get any kind of juicy case. But I reported for jury duty and they said, okay, you're at superior court, which means we try felonies, criminal cases, and monetary cases. Over $25,000.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Tim Lovestead]

And so we get brought into the courtroom, and they say, you are being considered for a murder trial.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the jackpot.

[Tim Lovestead]

Yes. And I never imagined that I would actually get picked for a murder tr. But here we are. And so it turns out it was for a road rage incident where he shot and killed a man in the middle of the night on his way home from work.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Tim Lovestead]

And so, as we're in jury selection, it gets even more interesting because there's the table with the prosecutors and the table with the defense attorneys asking us the questions. And we learn that the man sitting at the defense table is not only the attorney, he is also the defendant. He is the man accused of murder.

[Dax Shepard]

Always a terrible idea. Yeah. Never really works out.

[Tim Lovestead]

He has decided to be his own attorney for a murder trial where he is up for life in prison.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I hate to be rude, but he already showed pretty poor judgment in the road rage incident. It shouldn't be shocking that he's like, I'm definitely representing myself. Now, the attorneys, if I'm to believe movies, right? They go through a whole round of jury selection, and they're asking you questions, trying to find out how biased you may or may not be. Do you remember what questions the first time lawyer slash defendant asked it?

[Tim Lovestead]

Mainly was the prosecutor asking questions. But they did ask every single person, do you think you can be a fair and impartial juror? And someone in my group said, no, I don't think I can. To which this man said, why? And to this man's credit, he looked at him and said, because I think that anyone who is going to represent themselves in a murder trial is stupid and uneducated.

[Monica Padman]

Oh. Oh, my. Okay. Honesty abounds. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm glad he said it. Someone had to say it.

[Tim Lovestead]

He stared at him for a very long time, wrote some notes in his notebook, and said, got it. Thank you. And I was like, oh, my God, I hope this man's okay.

[Monica Padman]

Still, he's also saying that to a murderer. That guy's stupid.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I would argue if I'm the prosecutor, I keep that guy. That guy's definitely voting my way.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but they both have to agree.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, but the other guy doesn't even know what he's doing. It might slide through. We'll see.

[Monica Padman]

All right, let's see.

[Tim Lovestead]

He did not make the cut.

[Dax Shepard]

I just imagine the defendant Asking you, like, juror number nine, do you have a boyfriend?

[Monica Padman]

You really have a picture of him. That's funny. You've been in road rage situations. I could see it. Not normal. This is like you. I've been watching so much you, the serial killer show. So maybe I'm just sympathizing, but I think a kind of normal, ish person could find themselves in this situation.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I'm not. No one will like this, but this is the truth. I have had the impulse to carry a gun in my car several different times. And I have always decided you can't have a gun in the car because you have had road rage incidents. And if, like, someone pulls one on you and now you have one, we're going to the next level.

[Monica Padman]

But not everyone has your history of thinking about yourself and your issues. And, like, I have road rage, so I guess I won't. Most people aren't doing that.

[Dax Shepard]

Some people don't have a big frontal cortex.

[Monica Padman]

They just aren't doing the same reflection that you are. In Georgia, I could see someone carrying a gun and a lot of people carrying guns in their car. Whatever. I love him.

[Dax Shepard]

I love him.

[Tim Lovestead]

I forgot to mention is that. Actually, we learned throughout the course of the trial is he was previously convicted of murder for a separate road rage incident. So he is not new to this.

[Dax Shepard]

But he got off or served his time.

[Tim Lovestead]

Yeah, I think he did serve some time and then it was, like, shortened. But he is previously convicted of murder. He was like, I have legal experience. I've done this before.

[Monica Padman]

Been there, done that.

[Tim Lovestead]

He was feeling quite confident. Also during jury selection, they ask, are you a caregiver to a kid under six? And if you were selected for this, could you have alternative childcare? No one was like, yep, that's me. So we get picked, and the bailiff says, okay, this trial is gonna take probably two weeks, and you should expect to be here from 8 to 5 every day. To which this woman starts freaking out. She's like, I can't be here at that time. I have kids. I have to get them to and from school. I gotta get them off the school bus. And. And they were like, ma' am, we asked you about this and you didn't say anything. And she was in my group of questioning. She had given some interesting answers. So I was very surprised to begin with that she had been picked. But she starts freaking out and she's like, I need to talk to the judge. And they're like, you can't talk to him. He's left for the day. And she's like, well, I'll just be late. And they're like, ma' am, you cannot be late to jury duty. You will be held in contempt of court, so you need to be here. And so they finally say, okay, if you come in the morning, we'll talk to the judge and let him figure this out. So I guess she comes in the morning. Obviously the judge is like, tough luck, you've been selected for this. We asked you, you didn't say anything. We're in the room beforehand and she's very upset about it. The other jurors are trying to maybe give her suggestions of can you call the school, like any way to help her? And she's just beside herself. And so the trial gets underway. She is seated next to me throughout the duration of this trial. It starts right off the bat with some really gruesome images. They're laying out what they think happened in the case. I thought that they would maybe give a warning before they pop up those photos of the crime scene. They do not. They just say, here you go, here's a dead person. Here's a close up of the bullet hole. Take it all in. And you're like, it is 9am I prepared for this. The jury box is seated right next to the prosecutor's table. And so suddenly this woman, I'll call her Mary, she leans over and tries to pass the prosecutor a note.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful.

[Tim Lovestead]

The prosecutor' Like, I can't take this. And she's like, it's not about the case. It's not about the case. And obviously it's causing a commotion. And so the judge is like, what is happening over here? And she's like, I just want to give the prosecutor this note. It has nothing to do with the case. And he's like, you can't give a note to the prosecutor. You can't talk to them. What is it about? And she's like, it's about what we talked about this morning. I want him to advocate on my behalf. And this judge is like, you will be on this jury. You will be here every single day from 8 to 5. I don't know what to tell you, but the judge makes the final call.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, P.S. lady, it does have to do with the case.

[Tim Lovestead]

Yes, she continues to flip out. And she kind of just like stares at the floor the rest of the day. All the rest of us are taking really vigorous notes. It's like a very complicated case. As the case progresses, I also start to notice that because the defendant was his own attorney they had to put in some, like, rules in the courtroom that probably didn't exist if just a regular attorney was there. Like, there's tape on the floor. And he couldn't cry because it would be too close to the jury box. He also couldn't go and hand evidence to the witnesses. So this put a lot of extra work on the prosecutor. And he did not have a laptop. And a lot of the evidence was video surveillance footage. And so he would have the prosecutor play these clips. And in court you have to be like, play it from this timestamp to this timestamp. And this man either did not understand that or just was not prepared. So he would yell across the courtroom things like, yo, prosecutor, roll the tape.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Like kind of at a nightclub, like a rap situation.

[Tim Lovestead]

I can't roll the tape. Which one would you like me to play? And at what time? And he'd be like, I don't know, dude, from the beginning. And they were like, that's not how this works. We have to take lots of breaks while they figure all this out. And some of the clips, even after a long break, we were like, what were we supposed to watch in this video case? Goes on day one, they were doing the gruesome stuff, relaying the facts of the case. Next day it's much more about cell phone tower surveillance video footage explaining why this man was in this place at this time. And so we're probably like halfway through the day, Mary leans over to me suddenly and she goes, what happened to the man in the car from yesterday? And I'm kind of confused for a second.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Tim Lovestead]

And I say, they think that that man over there killed him and we're here to figure out if he did or did not. And she goes, what?

[Monica Padman]

She was so hung up on two.

[Dax Shepard]

Weeks, she literally didn't see photos of.

[Tim Lovestead]

Dead people, did not understand what was happening. She starts crying hysterically, has to get tissues, is sobbing.

[Monica Padman]

Although, okay, I will say, if this is a tactic, that's a brilliant tactic.

[Dax Shepard]

To get booted from the jurors. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because she is unfit to sit on this trial. This is like a hack.

[Dax Shepard]

What's happening?

[Monica Padman]

Wait, who's that guy?

[Dax Shepard]

Where am I?

[Tim Lovestead]

So at this point, I'm concerned because she's not paying attention. She doesn't understand what's happening. I will say I don't think English was her first language. So I was like, okay, she's maybe having trouble understanding what's happening.

[Monica Padman]

What are we age wise for her?

[Tim Lovestead]

She's probably like 40, ish probably a.

[Monica Padman]

Little young for Alzheimer's or dementia.

[Tim Lovestead]

I think a lot was with the language barrier. And so I'm concerned at this point that, okay, we're going to get through this whole trial, we're going to get to deliberation, and she's not going to know what has happened for the past two weeks. During our next break, I actually go talk to the bailiff for a second, and I'm just like, hey, this is what happened. I'm a little concerned that she's not understanding what we're doing here. And they're like, we're sorry, but the prosecutors picked her for a reason. So we can't do anything about it. We can't bring in an alternate.

[Dax Shepard]

Why?

[Monica Padman]

That's the point of them.

[Tim Lovestead]

Yes. And the alternates are sitting there. You don't know who's an alternate when you're going through. So we all sit and listen. And we didn't know until we got to deliberation who the two alternates were.

[Dax Shepard]

She could have been an alternate.

[Tim Lovestead]

Monica, I hope they're like, you know, if it ends in a mistrial, you could give this feedback to the attorney so they can learn to pick a better juror for next time. But they must have had a reason, so she's here to stay. Try to help her as much as you can. The rest of the jury are also concerned about her because they've also witnessed all of these things.

[Monica Padman]

I'm now upset with the judge. That person can't be ruling on someone's life.

[Dax Shepard]

Although I could see where you can make an argument like, this is the system. It's a jury of your peers. And, yeah, these are people that are in the population that's a real peer in this community.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's why they do a selection. It's to weed out this kind of thing.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm sure he had a full explanation of why he was certain she would convict.

[Tim Lovestead]

I would have loved to have heard their reasoning for it. As they laid out more and more evidence, it was becoming quite clear that this man was guilty. There wasn't really a question about it.

[Dax Shepard]

If I was the prosecutor, I would have just had a single question. I would have got him on the witness stand and said, you already did this once before. Right. And when he said, yeah, I'd be like, yeah. I mean, come on, guys.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Didn't you already do this?

[Monica Padman]

Now it makes even more sense why he didn't have a lawyer. He's like, I'm not paying for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But even a public defender towards the.

[Tim Lovestead]

End of this, I was like, I feel like if you're up for life in prison, you should be required to have a lawyer. But it's okay, because without this, we wouldn't have gotten so many more great moments. So I appreciate it because as the trial went on, his wife came to testify, which was the best. It was like, Bravo came to life in front of us because they clearly had a lot of issues, to the point where the judge multiple times had to intervene and say things like, we can't talk about your sex life right now. It's not relevant to the case. You clearly have some other marital issues, but it's not relevant right now. Please resolve that. Outside of the courtroom, they got very heated, especially because his main defense was hinging on. He thought that his w her sorority sisters and the teachers at their kids school had worked with the police to switch his cell phone out of the locked evidence box at the police station to pin this on him because they wanted his millions and millions of dollars. And his wife was very upset about this. One, because she was like, you're an idiot. And two, at some point in their relationship, a video had been taken of her in a compromising situation that she was now very upset that the police may have seen.

[Dax Shepard]

This is juicy.

[Tim Lovestead]

I don' to say that he didn't have millions, but I highly doubt, yeah, he didn't. We finally get time to deliberate. All of us are very nervous that we're going to be there forever because Mary, the juror, had no idea what's been happening. But we decide, because he's up for several counts, that we're going to go through it one count at a time and just kind of like, pulse check. How are we doing? What do we need to discuss? And when it gets to be Mary's turn, we're like, oh, my God, what is she going to say? And she just looks at us and says, I felt his evil spirit. He's guilty.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, that works for us.

[Tim Lovestead]

We're not going to ask questions. If that's how you want to decide this, be my guest. And so, yep, we ended up convicting him of all of the counts.

[Dax Shepard]

How long did you deliberate?

[Tim Lovestead]

Maybe an hour. There actually ended up being another person that we had to really talk through things with, which was surprising.

[Dax Shepard]

What if that person was like, well, why would a millionaire kill somebody?

[Monica Padman]

It makes no sense.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, who wouldn't want to stick around on the outside of prison with millions of dollars?

[Tim Lovestead]

To your point, doc, it is a representation of your peers. So it was Very interesting to hear people's reasoning for why they came to the conclusion that they did. So y. Yeah. That was my first and only time as a juror.

[Monica Padman]

Let's go. Gwinnett County.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Way to deliver. Wow, what an exciting trial.

[Monica Padman]

I was never registered in Gwinnett county because I registered in Athens during college. And then I did get summoned, but by that time, I was not living there, so I got out of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Good job.

[Monica Padman]

And then I did serve here in Los Angeles. All my friends, obviously. Obviously. And I get it. Like, they're just like, I gotta get out of it. But it is helpful to have real sane people sitting on these juries.

[Dax Shepard]

Ali, that was a delicious story. What a delight to meet you.

[Tim Lovestead]

Thank you. I figured you'd appreciate the Gwinnett connection, and I know you guys have to go, but I am going to give a shout out to my friend Tori. She listens to all the armchair anonymouses with me, and she's a medical professional, so we definitely talk about all the poop and the blood and all of the craziness.

[Dax Shepard]

Is Tori a little bit perverted? Like, in a good way?

[Tim Lovestead]

She works in orthopedic, so probably she loves to set a bone.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's perverse.

[Monica Padman]

Even the Phra.

[Tim Lovestead]

Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care. We are supported by Domino's. You know, I have the app.

[Monica Padman]

Me too.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not talked about in this ad spot, but I do got to give a shout out to the lava cakes. They're outrageous.

[Monica Padman]

I want it right now.

[Dax Shepard]

At long last, Domino's final finally, finally has stuffed crust pizza. And not just stuffed crust Parmesan stuffed crust.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, man. What are you waiting for?

[Dax Shepard]

Who doesn't love a little Parmesan? Nobody, that's who. It's hard to believe it's taken them this long to make a stuffed crust pizza, but let me tell you, this was worth the wait. They've taken their buttery flavored, handmade pan pizza dough and stuffed it with melty cheese. And if that wasn't enough, they topped it with garlic seasoning and, yes, real Parmesan.

[Monica Padman]

I can taste it.

[Dax Shepard]

I love mine smothered with pepperoni.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, all this talk about Domino's has got me hungry, and I think I've got tonight's dinner plans all figured out. Order Domino's new Parmesan stuffed crust pizza on the Domino's app and use Code DAX to get any three topping Parmesan Stuffed Crust Pizza for 11.99. That's code DAX on the Domino's app to try it today. Price is higher in some locations. You must ask for this limited time offer. Prices, participation delivery area and charges may vary. Delivery orders subject to local stores Stores Delivery charge We are supported by Apple TV presenting the hit limited series Presumed Innocent, starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Ruth Nega. Hailing from David e. Kelly and J.J. abrams. Starring Gyllenhaal in the lead role of Chief Deputy Prosecutor Rusty Savage, Presumed Innocent explores a horrific murder that upends the Chicago prosecuting attorney's office when one of its own is suspected of the crime. The series delves into obsession, sex, politics and the power and limits of love as the accused fight to hold his family and marriage together.

[Monica Padman]

I loved this show and I started.

[Dax Shepard]

It per your recommendation and I love it too. Critics rave about the fantastic ensemble and say Presumed Innocent is brilliant, undeniably compelling and TV at its highest quality. Now streaming on Apple TV plus [e-mail] tvplus.com we are supported by Macy's Let Macy's be your guide to gifting this Father's Day. Father's Day is fast approaching and Macy's is the gift destination shop for your dad or all the important men in your life. They've got a great collection of clothes for him from brands like Lacoste, Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein, Levi's and more. If you're shopping for me, I love Levi's. The selection at Macy's is massive. So whether he's more of a tailored suit guy, likes to keep it casual and some comfy shorts and a polo, or only wears activewear, Macy's has all of that and more. And if you're looking for something different, you could snag him a fragrance. Sunglasses, electronics, barbecue, gadgets, sleepwear, gaming equipment. They make it easy to find something dad's gonna love. So again, just grab me some Levi's. I'm size 33. Let Macy's be your guide to gifting for Father's Day. Shop now@macy's.com or in store. Hello, is this Lauren?

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi. Let me just look at your garments. Love to just check in with what kind of garments are hanging a lot of stripes. Someone loves stripes.

[Lauren]

I do like a stripe.

[Monica Padman]

I'm with you.

[Dax Shepard]

Where are you in the country?

[Lauren]

I am in Columbus, Ohio.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful. That's but a mere three hours from.

[Lauren]

My home and equidistant to Kings island and Cedar Point.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

How does one choose Sophie's Choice, the Gemini or Devils? What was the great one at Kings Island?

[Lauren]

The Beast was the OG one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That goes down in a spiral and hits its max speed. Yeah. What a ride. Okay, you had a jury duty experience. Please tell us all about it.

[Lauren]

We're going back to spring of 2013. I was at the time living and working in New York City, and I received a jury summons. But not for normal trial jury. It was for grand jury, which I didn't really know anything about. Fortunately, my first day of orientation required us to watch an hour long video featuring Sam Waterson from Law Order.

[Ally]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Wonderful.

[Lauren]

To explain the inner workings of grand jury duty, which essentially meant we were locked into two weeks where we would continue to see case after case and we would basically vote if the person was going to be indicted and then move on to a trial.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Like if you lose a grand jury appointment, you are now going to officially stand trial, right?

[Lauren]

That's right.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. I had no idea that this was a thing.

[Dax Shepard]

But only for a certain kind of.

[Monica Padman]

Case, people are deciding whether someone gets a trial.

[Lauren]

Yeah, well, you hear in those stories where it's like a grand jury indicted, so and so. And now they're going to set a trial date. So this was in the Manhattan district courts. So I was downtown in that Law and Order building. And for the next two weeks, we saw more than 40 cases. So there was everything from burglary to a purse being snatched in Times Square. There was a really juicy prostitution sting in Chinatown that required a translation service so we could hear all the juicy details.

[Dax Shepard]

This is fun because this is like speed trials, right? They're gonna lay out, like their five best pieces of evidence, and you determine whether that's sufficient.

[Lauren]

Exactly. Most of these, it was like in and out. It would be the undercover cop that comes in, shares the testimony. We say yay or nay, and we're onto the next one. Of all these cases that I saw, there was one that was truly the wildest case I have ever seen. So it started off in a very weird place and it just did not get any more normal. The attorney comes up to sort introduce the facts of the case and says, the defendant in this case, his name is Dan Sandler, but he insists on going by Adam Sandler.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, perfect start.

[Lauren]

And we did find out later in the testimony that he did insist on everybody calling him Adam Sandler because he was a fan.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Is this a stalking case?

[Lauren]

Oh, buckle up. So we're here to learn about Dan Adam Sandler. And he's not present, by the way, I should say. So the first person to Come in and really share her testimony was the primary victim in this case. So she was a middle aged woman. I thought she looked very teacherly, very wholesome. And we find out that she was a top executive at Girl Scouts of America. Their headquarters are in Manhattan. For the next probably four or five hours, she shares her testimony with us where this person, Dan Slash. Adam Sandler.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, let's call him Adam Sandler.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, let's be respectful.

[Ally]

Okay.

[Lauren]

So Adam Sandler had a temp job as like an IT person in the office of Girl Scouts of America. He had gone into her office to fix her computer. They had chatted. She was friendly to him. He kept finding different reasons to pop into her office over the next couple of weeks, started asking her some more romantic questions and she shut that down. Amidst this escalating, the employer found out that he actually had a criminal record. And so he was let go. But his criminal record actually was a result of him moonlighting at as an off brand Elmo in Times Square.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So he wasn't paying the royalties to be officially representing Elmo.

[Lauren]

It was absolutely an unlicensed Elmo character. And he had gotten in some hot water for harassing children and families. Times Square and leveling some boisterous anti Semitic rants.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, a racist Elmo.

[Monica Padman]

Adam Sandler.

[Dax Shepard]

He probably doesn't know he's Jewish.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he definitely doesn't.

[Lauren]

So he loses his job. And that's actually where things really escalate. He was it. So he had access to all of her contact information, all of her personnel file. He's calling and texting her, leaving her voicemails hundreds of times a day, showing up at her home, making increasingly wild threats. And that's when she starts saying that she's going to get law enforcement involved. Well, it's at this time that he decides he's really going to go bold and he threatens that he is going to put out a salacious story about Girl Scouts of America, that they are facilitating these very un. Girl Scout like arrangements at their camps.

[Dax Shepard]

Sex trafficking.

[Lauren]

Exactly his request. And I did look at some media reporting on this just to get it right. So. So the specific request was, I want you, the Girl Scouts of America, to hire me for $150,000 a year. Just give me a job.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Or a $2 million cash settlement so.

[Dax Shepard]

That he doesn't reveal.

[Tim Lovestead]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Even though he's the one on trial.

[Lauren]

What was so sad was just we had to listen to every single voicemail. Like they had to enter in every piece of evidence. Most of the cases we heard were like, in and out, 10 minutes.

[Tim Lovestead]

This.

[Lauren]

We had to sit there for six hours listening to these just horrific voicemails that he left. This poor, sweet woman. I just felt so awful for her. Over the next couple of days, we heard testimony from other colleagues, other people that had been involved in previous incidents that he'd been wrapped up in. But in the end, no surprise, we indicted him and he did go off to trial. I believe he pleaded out for some lesser charge, but I think he did do about a year in prison.

[Monica Padman]

Then all of our stalker stories. Nothing happens to the stalker ever. So I like this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, voicemails gotta help, I guess.

[Monica Padman]

But they. Even with some of them, they know they have full evidence. They're just like, until he touches you.

[Dax Shepard]

Until he kills you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

It was lucky they got ahead of it.

[Dax Shepard]

So you didn't get to see Adam Sandler?

[Lauren]

Actually, we didn't get to see him. We just got to hear his very terrifying voice.

[Monica Padman]

What if he did an Adam Sandler impersonation?

[Lauren]

I always say a story with Adam Sandler, Elmo and the Girl Scouts, you would think would be more wholesome than this one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're right. That's supposed to add up to something very life affirming. I hate to say it, but I would love to have an Elmo in Times Square say something worthy of getting punched so that I could punch someone in the Elmo outfit.

[Monica Padman]

You want to punch Elmo, But I.

[Dax Shepard]

Want to punch a human Elmo. In defense of righteous causes, of course.

[Lauren]

I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Lauren, it's lovely meeting you. Thanks for sharing that story.

[Lauren]

I so appreciate the opportunity. This is a blast. Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, bye.

[Monica Padman]

Bye.

[Dax Shepard]

Bye.

[Monica Padman]

One of the major sim moments of my entire life is that me and my roommate shout out, rachel. We were summoned at the exact same time for jury duty.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

We were both picked. And our trials were. Were in rooms right next to each other.

[Dax Shepard]

That is impossible, isn't it? Yeah. In a city of 8 million people. Or however many.

[Monica Padman]

Until we got to go to lunch together.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's lovely. They always break at the same time.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Ally]

Oh, hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi, Stacy. Oh, cute shirt.

[Ally]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

You've augmented your Ted Seeger shirt.

[Monica Padman]

It's really cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's a little bit over the shoulder.

[Ally]

It's a little flash dance.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, very flash dance. Not even just a little. Where are you at specifically?

[Ally]

I'm in a nursing room, so I run a childcare center for a corporate client so they can bring their children to the center at their Workplace.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, lovely. And what state are you in?

[Ally]

Pennsylvania.

[Dax Shepard]

Pennsylvania. Beautiful place.

[Ally]

Bethlehem, specifically. Home of the peep.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow, the peep. The.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, the little marshmallow. And how many times have you been to that factory?

[Ally]

They don't open up to tours anymore, but I drive past it almost every week.

[Dax Shepard]

But did you grow up there? You must have gone on field trips.

[Ally]

Yes, we have a giant peep drop at New Year's Eve, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, fun.

[Monica Padman]

That's hilarious.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so where was your jury duty experience?

[Ally]

Okay, so do you know the song Allentown by Billy Joel?

[Dax Shepard]

Allentown.

[Stacy]

Do, do, do, do.

[Ally]

So this takes place in Allentown, not far from Bethlehem at all. And it was in 2013, and I got a summons for a homicide trial.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh.

[Ally]

The kind of heaviness of this all started to settle in when this defendant had just turned 19. So when it happened, he was 18, and so was the victim. And Pennsylvania has the death penalty.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is a lie.

[Ally]

It is. Philosophically, does someone that committed a murder deserve to die? And I'm not a religious person, but I certainly didn't want to be the reason that this young man is put to death.

[Dax Shepard]

For sure.

[Ally]

It's a lot of responsibility. In addition to that whole circumstance, I have really bad panic disorder, especially in places that I think I can't leave. So planes, trains, boats, anywhere. I don't have control of the situation, mostly because I have ibs.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Ally]

When I'm in an airplane or I'm going on a trip, I don't eat at all all before I get on the airplane, and I don't eat at all while I'm on the airplane because I have a fear. And your stories on Armchair do not add anything to my fear and my panic.

[Dax Shepard]

I know it can happen anywhere if you learn one thing from this show.

[Ally]

So I was really careful about eating breakfast and making sure that I didn't have anything in my stomach going into the trial each day. We knew it was going to last probably a week minimum, because it was a homicide trial and it was very heavily publicized. There was press there every day for our small little town. It was a big deal. I don't know. But a couple days in, I was feeling probably a little bit brave. My anxiety started to just wear down a little bit. And I make these things called sunbutter balls, similar to peanut butter cups, but they're made out of sunbutter, which is a sunflower seed spread. And I roll the sun butter up with powder sugar, and I make a ball and I dip it in chocolate and then I freeze it, and it's super yummy.

[Dax Shepard]

I've had these. They're delish, but you can't eat just one.

[Ally]

So I probably had five or six.

[Dax Shepard]

Of them, of course.

[Ally]

And a cup of coffee or two.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. We're really loading the chamber.

[Ally]

So I head into trial this day, and I'm sitting in the juror box. You have to listen to all the evidence. And they had a lot of video testimony. Tony sitting there. I started to feel that little gurgle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Ally]

That little twinge in my lower belly. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, okay, relax, we're gonna break for lunch. At some point you can probably get through this. But it's working its way around. And it's chocolate and sugar and coffee. It's not a good combination.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no. Even for someone without ibs, is this problematic?

[Ally]

My panic settled in, and then with my panic, I start to feel like I can't swallow. Like you're swallowing, but there's no saliva going down. And then I feel like I can't get any breath because then you're feeling like nothing's going into your lungs. And then my stomach's churning, and now I keep swallowing, and it's sticky. And then I'm like, am I breathing? You know, now I carry around a pulse on this little thingy that goes on your finger. And that will pull me out of a panic attack right away because it tells me you're breathing, you have plenty.

[Dax Shepard]

Of oxygen in your blood.

[Monica Padman]

That's a great, great hack.

[Ally]

But I didn't have it this day. So now everything kind of just starts to fuzz around me. Everything is closing in, and I don't know what to do. So I just stick my hand up really high. And the lawyers stop talking.

[Dax Shepard]

The murder trial stop.

[Tim Lovestead]

Just stops.

[Ally]

And the judge looks at me and I'm like, I have to go to the bathroom. So he's like, okay, I guess we're calling a recess. Files, everybody out of the courtroom. We have to go all the way back to the delivery.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God, this is a nightmare.

[Ally]

I am now in full blown panic attack. Plus I have to go to the bathroom. So they lead me into this little room, and I'm just sitting there. I do what I have to do, and it's not pretty sure. It's just not good. And then I'm like, I don't want to go back out there. I'm totally mortified.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Ally]

So I just sit there.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're hoping that the smell will dissipate over time. Is that the goal?

[Ally]

I don't know what I'm hoping.

[Monica Padman]

You just want to dissipate, just that you'll vanish.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Somehow, magically, I just know that there's.

[Ally]

A whole trial that has to take place. I mean, we are deciding this young man's fate.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Diarrhea will come at literally any time.

[Dax Shepard]

It knows no sign.

[Ally]

You know, to think about the victims, families out there, the defendants families out there. Every family's out there. The press is out there. So finally I just hear this little like, knock at the door and it's the judge. I mean, this nice little old man judge. And he's like, young lady, are you okay? And I was like, I think I'm okay. He's like, we really need to get moving.

[Dax Shepard]

We are supported by boar's head. 1905 was a big year. The first ever radio broadcast hit airwaves. The first movie theater opened in Pittsburgh. Einstein published his theory of relativity. And Boar's Head was founded in Brooklyn, which, if you're a sandwich lover like us, is just as important. Important. Boar's Head doesn't cut corners. Their premium deli meats and cheeses are top tier. They use premium whole cuts of beef, pork and poultry. And they source spices from around the globe. Boar's Head uses the best possible ingredients in time honored recipes, preparing everything they make with care. That's how they've been able to stay in business for more than 120 years.

[Monica Padman]

I love Boar's Head. It is definitely my. My meat of choice. I like the oven Gold turkey. Turkey.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The Oven Gold turkey is outrageous. So is that Smokemaster uncured ham. Oh, I can just eat a pile.

[Monica Padman]

I want that right now.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Ally]

So I do. I come out. That whole day was kind of a blur. And the trial progresses. It goes on for about a week. We all have to come to some conclusion and a unanimous conclusion. What we're going to decide for this young man. We decide on third degree murder. So no intent because he was having an altercation with his girlfriend's ex boyfriend. He fired at the car with a gun during an altercation. The bullet went through the car, killed this other young man. So we really decided he wasn't going to get the death penalty. The trial ends and they have to escort you to the parking garage by a police escort because they don't want you in the mix of the press or to be seen by any families. So it just happened during this jury duty that I was placed on the jury with one of my family's mothers. So one of the children that I take care of, she was on the jury with me. So we get out to the parking garage, the police escort out there, and she's like, oh my God, I forgot my paperwork for work. And I was like, you don't really need it, it's fine. She said, no, I'm not going to get credit for jury duty. We have to head back to the courthouse to get my paperwork. So I'm like all dramatic and I'm like, well, we can't go in there looking like we left because they're going to know we were on the jury. So you take down your hair, I'll mess up my hair. We'll change jackets, we'll go incognito. So we have to kind of sneak back into the courthouse to get back to the deliberation room to get her paperwork. We get our paperwork and we decide we're going to leave the back way of the courthouse. We come around the corner and the courthouse is Connected to the coroner's office back then. It's not anymore. And there's this man smoking a cigarette. Cigarette leaning against the courthouse. And he looks at me, I look at him and he's like, hey, Stacy. And I'm like, oh, hey. And we realized we went to high school together. So we were sitting there, we're chit chatting, we catch up, we go our separate ways, and he messages me a couple days later on Facebook and we end up dating and we end up getting engaged.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God. Meet cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Is he a girl corner?

[Ally]

He was for many years. Yes. We were together for five years. It was lovely. We are no longer together, but I met my current boyfriend through him and we've been together for a couple years and very, very happy. So in a sense, I always say I've met my current love through him and through the whole homicide trial.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God. The story has it all.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's rare that you get a unauthorized evacuation, jury duty in a meat cube, in a murder in a corner.

[Monica Padman]

All in one story in a disguise. Espionage really got it all.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Ally]

It's never on another homicide trial again. I think I would do better nowadays.

[Dax Shepard]

If you had any curiosity about tracking whether or not that kid was released.

[Ally]

I looked up the case yesterday because when it was going on, they called it the Danny vs Manny case case because one of the young adults was named Danny. One was named Manny. I could only find the article from 2013 which said that he was sentenced 21 to 40 years. So I would have to do a little bit more digging to see what happened to him.

[Dax Shepard]

I hate that story.

[Monica Padman]

Me too.

[Ally]

18. It's just such a hard decision because if it was something like torture or pedophile, I don't know, I think my decision would be different. But you have to kind of figure out if he really meant to murder somebody or if it was an accident.

[Monica Padman]

Or if he's a threat to others.

[Dax Shepard]

And this is why a jury of your peers is a genius invention, because they will met out justice sometimes in between the letter of the law, which is appropriate. You know, if it's just by the book and it's prosecutors and defendants, juries can have a way of finding the best version of justice, I think.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I will say also juries don't have reputations to uphold.

[Tim Lovestead]

Hold.

[Ally]

Yeah. And you're really supposed to look at the evidence. They just kept saying, don't bring your emotion into it. When I went back to look at the article, it said we had deliberated so much longer than they expected. And I remember because we could not all agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Well, Stacy, it's just lovely meeting you. Yeah, we appreciate that story.

[Ally]

My daughter Anna really wanted to be here because she is an X ray tech and she had a case the other day involving a cucumber that she was so excited to share with you. She ended up not being able to be here, but I said I would make sure I told.

[Dax Shepard]

What a gift.

[Monica Padman]

We just love hearing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I love hearing about a cucumber lodged in someone's rectum.

[Ally]

And then my other two kids, Mia and Jack, and then my boyfriend Brian. So I said I would give them all a shout out.

[Dax Shepard]

Shout out to all. Okay, well, wonderful. So nice meeting you, Stacy.

[Ally]

Nice to see you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, take care.

[Monica Padman]

Did you make the connection of jury duty?

[Dax Shepard]

D O O D I E I.

[Monica Padman]

E. Yeah, Jury duty.

[Dax Shepard]

Tim Lovestead.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, exciting. Oh, boy, look at this.

[Stacy]

Really good to see you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so for the listening audience, we're joined now by one of my very first friends in Los Angeles, the esteemed Tim Loves. We went through the Groundlings together. We've done every darn thing together, haven't we?

[Stacy]

We've done a lot. Some of it we can't talk about.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what I probably miss the most is how much you and I drove around in your Tacoma pickup truck in Hollywood and just interacted with people.

[Stacy]

It was like friendly heckling hecklers that.

[Dax Shepard]

Are, like, funny and have a good spirit.

[Stacy]

Yeah, we would always compliment people, but in a very crass way. So like, we would say, like, hey, sweet fucking hat.

[Dax Shepard]

Right? It's a compliment. But there was swearing. An aggressive compliment.

[Stacy]

Yes. And a lot of shouting because I have a very loud voice, so it kind of would startle them.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so, Tim, I don't even know if I knew you had a jury duty story, but maybe as you'll tell it, I'll remember.

[Stacy]

So as Dax points out, I worked in the grocery industry for a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. To bring listeners up to date, I often tell the story of you blowing out your ACL while cash registering standing.

[Stacy]

I was on light duty duty for like three months. I was just checking, like, hi, how are you today? Beep, beep. And I was like, some sort of tendon rupture.

[Dax Shepard]

It's one of the worst ACL stories I've ever heard. It's like, only thing could be taught by a guy who was taking a nap and woke up because it snapped 100%.

[Stacy]

But they were great about jury duty. So a lot of us, when you would get jury duty, it was like, oh, I'm gonna take it. Because back then, you would sit around for three or four days. Days until you got on a trial and you got your full pay. So for us, it was like, why not go to jury duty? So I'm on jury duty. And back then, it was a big room full of people. And as you could probably imagine, it's a real mixed bag. On my first day, they called a whole group of people, maybe 40 of us, and we went into a big room, and it was a courtroom, but it looked like a bigger holding room. And they handed out this leaflet almost like a workbook. You'd get it from school, and each one of us got one. And then a clerk of the court stood up and said, this. You need to fill out. Now, you cannot discuss it with anyone in the room. What you're filling out, what your answers are. You're to return it directly on your way out the door, and we'll see you tomorrow at 7am it was probably like, 75 questions. The questions were interesting, too, because it would be like, is anyone in law enforcement in your family? Which is a question you would expect to get. But then they would be like, have you ever visited Northridge, California? Oh, I was like, yeah, I live right there. Like, that's my mall. Like, what are we talking about? So the questions would be either very broad or super specific. It would be like, have you ever heard of anyone ever hiring someone to kill their spouse?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think Back in Black is the best ACDC song?

[Stacy]

Is Eddie Van Halen overrated? So super specific. So anyway, we come back at 7am and we can't really talk to each other because we don't know what we're about.

[Monica Padman]

Talking.

[Stacy]

They called 14 of us, and they went into a courtroom. We still don't know what this case is. Maybe it's an hour and a half later, they call another 10, and I'm in that next 10. They had warned us when they gave us this workbook that this case, we could be sequestered for up to three months.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Even if you love the setup by getting paid from Vons, I mean, that's too much for me. I'm probably thinking of ways I could get myself out of it, but also.

[Monica Padman]

Could be on Robert Durst case. Like, you could be part of, like, an okay. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So wait, the three months didn't scare you? You were like, absolutely. I want to be here the whole year.

[Stacy]

Okay. I get to stay At a hotel, I get paid my full run.

[Dax Shepard]

Tim, how old were you at the time?

[Stacy]

I want to say 25.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. A hotel sounds awesome.

[Stacy]

And also, I'm always about the story. Like there's going to be a good story out of this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

Which may or may not be true as we go along. Anyway, they call me into the room and I'm excited to be there. I've got my backpack with like the stuff that I was reading. I have snacks, I might have a cold drink. And I walk in very confidently and sit down. I looked and I knew this woman that was on trial because I used to watch the news rabidly. And I knew right away that this was. I can say her name because she's in prison. Mary Ellen Samuel. And her case involved her hiring a guy to kill her husband, which he did. And then she hired a guy to kill the guy that had killed her husband. So it was a double murder.

[Dax Shepard]

Black widow.

[Stacy]

Well, you know, they called her the green widow.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, why?

[Stacy]

Because after her husband died, the famous picture when the case went to trial was her baby bathing in hundred dollar bills in Las Vegas.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, did he have some insurance money?

[Stacy]

Yes, insurance and pension money. And so I knew right away I'm like Northridge. That's where it happened. Like I was locked in. But more than anything, I didn't want to look nervous.

[Dax Shepard]

You know that previous knowledge of the case is likely to get you booted off the jury. Right. Or that's my understanding. So are you going into this going like, I'm going to lie my ass, ass off and just say I've never heard of her?

[Stacy]

No, Because I think this was obviously pre oj, but they knew that people knew, especially in the LA area. I think some of the questions involved, like how much do you watch local news?

[Dax Shepard]

And you're like, all of it.

[Stacy]

5, 6, 7, 30. I'm all over it. So I'm sitting there, they've got 12 up there and two alternates, and they'll go, juror number one. You used to work for this cleaning company? Yes, I did. Okay, we'd like to excuse that juror for whatever reason. They're popping people on, on and off. So they call my number to go up there.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God, so exciting.

[Stacy]

So I go up into the jury box and I shit you not, I'm as comfortable as someone could be. I put my backpack down, I look around.

[Ally]

Hey.

[Stacy]

Okay. Yeah.

[Tim Lovestead]

Hi.

[Stacy]

You would think I was at a barbecue. I was so excited. Oh, you're juror eight. I'm nine that's fun. And so I sit down, and the prosecuting attorney goes, whatever. My number was. Juror 75, you look very comfortable up there. I said, yeah, Yeah, I do. She goes, we'd like to excuse juror number 75.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

For being too comfortable.

[Monica Padman]

That's so sad.

[Stacy]

She just doesn't want that guy persuading people on her jury.

[Dax Shepard]

You were too boy scouty, too excited.

[Stacy]

And literally picked up my backpack and looked around. I was pissed off. Yeah. Like, these people. You're gonna miss me when I'm gone. So I left. And back then you just get thrown back in the pool. You look like a jerk coming back. Like, yeah, I didn't get on a case. Guys don't get comfortable.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's like an audition. They give you notes. You have to go and, like, think on them. Come back.

[Stacy]

Also, in my head, I'm thinking, well, that was it. Like, that was going to be awesome. This is your last day of jury duty. So you were going to get on the hotel room circuit, and you blew it.

[Dax Shepard]

Had you packed an overnight bag? Like, were you so certain you might be sleeping at hotel that you brought your swimsuit with you that day? Oh, my God.

[Stacy]

Honestly, this is so embarrassing. I was like, do I still have to pay rent at my apartment? Is there something I can work out with the judge? So I get on this next jury thing, and it's much smaller. We sit down. There's 12 of us. Two alternates, the prosecuting attorney. They say, do you have any objections? They may have asked us a couple of questions, but it was quick. It was like, okay, trial starts tomorrow.

[Tim Lovestead]

Oh.

[Stacy]

So we show up, it's a criminal case, and this guy, it doesn't look like he got those clothes for a From home. His suit, it looks like he might still be incarcerated. You're not supposed to think that, but we could all sort of see. And this guy was staring at all of us like he wanted to kill us.

[Dax Shepard]

He was mad dog in the jury.

[Stacy]

Not a great strategy. So we're on the jury, and this case involves this guy who was a burglar who went into houses in Van Nuys and creeped in people's windows and stole jewelry. And then we go through residents telling their, oh, I saw a handcuff and an orange van drove away. And so we're all writing it down.

[Dax Shepard]

Side note. Don't take an orange van to a crime. It's so memorable.

[Stacy]

Shaggy and Scooby, we're hanging out the side. So the next day we come in and There's a guy in an orange jumpsuit in the witness stand, and he's looking all the women who just happen to be in the front row of the jury box. He's looking them all up and down. The judge says, okay, we're gonna start the trial. And he says to this guy in the jail outfit, you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? And he goes, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great.

[Stacy]

And all of us are like, what do we do now? So the judge says, we'd like to dismiss the jury. We come back in and the judge says, you're to ignore what you just saw. Don't let it in your mind. So the clerk comes up and says, do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? And he goes, fuck, no.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Are we allowed to remember that one?

[Stacy]

We leave. Meanwhile, every time he says, fuck no, he walks by the jury box and he's looking at these women. It's crazy. So we come back in. Now, after the second time, the judge says, you're to ignore everything you saw. He's not here. He's not in the room. So we go on with the trial. And There was probably 15 counts against this guy on burglary, three of them rock solid fingerprint saw. The guy saw his van. Is that your van? Yes, it is. The whole thing. So we go in the jury room. The first three are very easy, but the last 12, it's like they just threw him in there. There was no evidence. There was no nothing. But all the women are like, no, fuck that guy. He's going away for a long time. I don't care if there was no evidence. We spent all of a day talking. This isn't what the case is about. It has to be based on the evidence.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you taking a lead role in that? Be honest. At 25, no.

[Stacy]

There was a really good foreman. It was this guy who was like a construction guy, and he had his own construction company. So I think he was used to that sort of teamwork thing. I was just popping in when I could, but not really too much. So we go out, we're ready with our verdict. He's guilty on three counts. They escort the guy out, and the lead detective comes over and talks to us and says, what happened on those other counts? At that point, we had developed our story. There was no evidence. The evidence wasn't good. You guys just threw him in there. And the guy goes, yeah, that's because it was that guy's van. And we basically seized his van illegally. All the evidence was illegal, so we couldn't present it here. But he's very much guilty of those other 12 counts. And basically they knew they couldn't present it because that guy in the orange jumpsuit was in prison and felt wronged by the bad evidence. And that was still pending. He basically had come out to show his friend, I'll never testify against you. And it's a nice drive out to Van Nuys and not being in prison all day.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Whoa.

[Stacy]

All the women on the jury, of course, were like, see, we should have just prosecuted him.

[Dax Shepard]

Women are always right at the end of the day. I think that's the last thing.

[Monica Padman]

They did the right thing. They did not follow protocol.

[Stacy]

Yeah, but if I had gotten on that first case.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. How long did that trial end up going? Did you, like, follow that at all?

[Stacy]

I did. It was three months. And then she did get two life sentences. And she's got the death penalty.

[Lauren]

She did.

[Dax Shepard]

Really?

[Stacy]

She's still alive.

[Dax Shepard]

The Green Widow still on. But they sentence people to death row, but no one ever gets killed in California.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't know we had it anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know if we do anymore, but mostly people get sentenced there, and then it doesn't even happen.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Stacy]

Yeah. She's still the Green Widow.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm dying to see that photo of her swimming around in some cash.

[Monica Padman]

Was it televised, that one?

[Stacy]

No, obviously it was before OJ and all those, but it was pretty famous.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. So you just were going as many times as you could because you were getting out of work.

[Stacy]

Yeah. And I was like, okay, so I gotta sit in this room and read Three or four days. And they paid you? And it wasn't too bad.

[Monica Padman]

It's a good attitude to have.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, love said. I love you.

[Stacy]

I love you guys. I do want to say today is Vinnie's graduation day. And that's my son, Vinnie. He's an avid listener of Just Armchair Anonymous.

[Dax Shepard]

That's how it is. He don't want to fuck with the feelings, just the diarrhea.

[Stacy]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. So fun to have you as a guest.

[Stacy]

Thank you for all you do. I'll see you at the next roller skating event.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yes, you will. And thank Mallory for letting us commandeer his workspace.

[Stacy]

I will, for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, be well.

[Monica Padman]

Bye. Well, sit on the. Ew. Oh, oh, oh.

[Dax Shepard]

That's her.

[Monica Padman]

That's her. That's her and the money. She seems cool.

[Dax Shepard]

She seems happy. I could see wanting that photo, but I would Be. And this is so inconsistent with me putting my shoes on everything. But I wouldn't want all those dollar bills on my skin.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think you're thinking of that when you're doing what she's doing.

[Dax Shepard]

No. You're not worried about germs? No, it's on her vagina.

[Monica Padman]

It is? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, how much would it cost you? What's the price tag the next time you peed a wipe with a dollar bill? Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So there's, like, wetness.

[Dax Shepard]

The real number.

[Monica Padman]

The real number. Wife with it once or until dry.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't. They're not very absorbent.

[Monica Padman]

I do it for $5,000.

[Dax Shepard]

Right now, really think of it. You grab the dollar bill. Imagine holding this dollar bill, and now.

[Monica Padman]

You'Re getting stuff on it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's a old ad. You Got it from 7:11. Has changed from buying a pack of cigarettes. Oh, maybe even worse. Maybe it came out of the tip jar.

[Monica Padman]

But then how much does it cost to get a disease?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. That's pretty much what you're really or minimally a use.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Okay, so what I would definitely do is immediately start taking cranberry pills and tell my doctor, like, I'm probably gonna need to get on an antibiotic and.

[Dax Shepard]

Just wiped with a wand.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, just wipe something out of the tip jar. But don't worry, I did get 5k. Let's go.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think that's light. I think you're saying 5k and then if I handed you a dollar bill and sent you on your way, you wouldn't do it.

[Monica Padman]

But I think actually. Because I want to be like. Actually, I think it's 50.

[Dax Shepard]

50 bucks or 50k. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

But I don't. I think it's less. I think you'd be surprised.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I like it. I like this side of you, the scrappy side.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. How about 10,000?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

So I can go on, like, a fun shopping spree now.

[Dax Shepard]

If I were in my 20s and I was listening to this, I would be, like, 50 bucks, guys. I would eat a dollar bill for a hundred bucks.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

And swallow it.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I'm sorry. You're putting me in this position.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I know. If you ask me, I'm also screwed.

[Monica Padman]

It's. How much would you pay for maybe aids?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I don't think AIDS can live on a dollar billboard, but a UTI for sure.

[Monica Padman]

All right, all right. Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you.

[Tim Lovestead]

Do you want to sing a tune or something? One of a theme song.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Great. We don't have a theme song for this new show. So here I go go go. We're going to add some random question questions and with the help of armchairs we'll get some suggestions on the Fly Rhyme dish. On the Fly Rhyme dish.

[Stacy]

Enjoy.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Pieces Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey this.

[G]

Is Nick and this is Jack. We're best friends, ex finance guys and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, the Best Idea yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion dollar fashion company went viral thanks to a rhinestone covered tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident? It started as a joke. Last one which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks they actually ended up acquiring it?

[Ally]

Spoiler.

[G]

The Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino, join us every week to learn how your favorite things got made. Follow the best IDE idea yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor.