Bobbi Brown (make-up artist and entrepreneur)

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: Bobbi Brown (Makeup Artist & Entrepreneur)
Episode Date: September 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid conversation, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman welcome legendary makeup artist, author, and entrepreneur Bobbi Brown. The discussion centers around Bobbi’s remarkable journey, her philosophy on beauty and business, the highs and lows of building her iconic brand, her personal struggles and family dynamics, and her reinvention after leaving her namesake company. The episode is as much about personal resilience and authenticity as it is about entrepreneurship and the beauty industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Identity: The Many Bobbi Browns

• [00:24] Dax and Monica joke about the challenge of distinguishing their guest, Bobbi Brown, from other famous “Bobby Browns.”
• [01:12] Bobbi shares how this sometimes creates confusion even with restaurant reservations.

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2. Early Influences & Family Dynamics

• [04:59] Bobbi reflects on her childhood, feeling “less than” as a teen, and how that fueled her desire to foster authenticity and self-acceptance in others through makeup.
  • “Instead of going overboard, I’ve realized that the less I do, the more I’m me. And that’s the secret of what makes me happy.” – Bobbi Brown [05:10]
• [07:49] Her family’s background in the car business and her father’s multiple career pivots are discussed, highlighting an early entrepreneurial spirit.
• [09:00] The impact of growing up in a Jewish community and her fascination with WASPy aesthetics.

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3. Struggles with Mental Health in the Family

• [10:54] Bobbi’s candid recounting of her brother’s lifelong battle with borderline personality disorder and substance use.
  • “It was really hard to watch. … He ended up, after decades, being homeless. He ended up passing away of a drug overdose.” – Bobbi Brown [11:52]
• [15:31] Bobbi’s mother’s struggle with bipolar disorder (manic depression), a “nervous breakdown” in the 1970s, and how mental health was misunderstood at the time.
• [16:52] The deeply personal story of her mother suggesting cosmetic surgery, and how Bobbi asserted her self-acceptance early on.

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4. School, Learning Differences, and Early Determination

• [18:07] Bobbi admits to not being a great student and reflects on learning differences, like ADHD, that shaped her work style.
  • “I do really well when I’m driving or when I’m moving. It’s funny, I bought a book on adult ADHD. I couldn’t read it.” – Bobbi Brown [18:19]
• [19:44] Series of educational shifts – moving colleges, early relationships, and creating her own major in theatrical makeup and photography at Emerson.

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5. On Marriage, Relationships, and Lasting Love

• [19:34] Bobbi’s philosophy on marriage longevity:
  • “Know what pisses them off. Don’t do it. That seems easy, but it’s really hard to do. ... I’m sorry I upset you. That doesn’t mean I was wrong. I am. I’m sorry I upset you.” – Bobbi Brown [19:39]

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6. Building a Career: Hustle, Naivety, and the New York Grind

• [23:27] Moving to New York (“You just land in New York and go, how the fuck?”) and learning by trial, error, and asking questions.
• [24:44] Early gigs, including teaching makeup lessons, sometimes for unconventional clients found via ads in the Village Voice.
• [25:27] The ratio of creative talent to hustle and “ninja” problem-solving in building a career.

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7. The Birth of Bobbi Brown Cosmetics

• [26:07] The accidental encounter with a chemist that led to her first lipstick:
  • Bobbi wanted a lipstick “that didn’t smell bad, was creamy, not dry, not greasy, and matched the color of my lips.”
• [27:32] The revolutionary idea of matching foundation to real skin tones, with Monica expressing gratitude for Bobbi’s role in expanding shade ranges.
  • “To me, it’s common sense. The way to choose a foundation is you try it on the side of your face. If it disappears, it’s the right color.” – Bobbi Brown [27:20]

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8. Success, Publicity, and Business Growth

• [27:56] Bobbi explains the importance of being personable in the industry and how relationships, not just skill, drive repeat business.
• [34:49] The break into Bergdorf’s happened by chance at a party—not by a pitch, but genuine conversation and connection. Initial expectations were to sell 100 lipsticks a month; they sold 100 a day.
• [35:26] Early business partnerships and challenges.

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9. Selling to Estée Lauder & Navigating Corporate Buyout

• [36:27] The brand is sold to Estée Lauder in 1995 for $75 million (approx. $159 million in 2025 dollars)—with a rare, extensive 25-year non-compete.
  • “When I left the company, it was a billion dollar brand.” – Bobbi Brown [37:58]
  • “A lot of it is guesses. ... I go with my gut. My son, who is the CEO, says, ‘No, Mom, it’s all data.’” [36:33]
• [39:00] Describes growing tension as company culture shifts, and ultimately feeling pushed out:
  • “What they said is, they want you to be head of the brand, but get out of the data. And to me, that’s firing. … The day-to-day is why I did what I did.” – Bobbi Brown [45:28]
• [46:03] Reflections on corporate growth vs. personal values; Bobbi remains proud yet honest about what she learned and the pain of watching the brand move away from its founding philosophy.

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10. Reinvention: Life After Bobbi Brown Cosmetics

• [48:09] Describes a period of “drinking tequila with the neighbors,” then quickly returning to action with new projects: beauty editing for Yahoo, developing a boutique hotel (“The George”), and ultimately laying groundwork for Jones Road Beauty.
  • “I’m not someone that sits idly by and knits.” — Bobbi Brown [48:23]
• [49:05] The importance of building a team—even hiring her Apple Store “genius” as an assistant—and assembling a “ninja” squad for the next venture.
• [50:21] She’s chosen for the first Indian Makeup Conference and Masterclass, developing her next philosophy.
• [51:00] “Emotionally, I couldn’t use [Bobbi Brown Cosmetics]. I just didn’t want to touch it. Stopped following the Instagram. I want no part of it.” — Bobbi Brown

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11. Jones Road Beauty: Second Act Success

• [51:43] One of the first Jones Road products—a balm—was a “happy accident,” revealing the importance of embracing serendipity in product development.
• [52:47] Bobbi describes the brand’s rocket growth—$18 million revenue year one, nearing $200 million by 2025—notably 90% direct-to-consumer.
• [53:48] The impact of TikTok and her son Cody’s marketing savvy:
  • “Gary [Vaynerchuk] said, ‘Go on TikTok now.’” [53:29]
  • “It blew up.” — Dax Shepard & Bobbi Brown [53:48]
• [54:33] “Isn’t this how it works for everybody?” Bobbi jokes of the fast success, highlighting deep humility.

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12. Beauty, Personal Identity, and Perfectionism

• [55:54] Bobbi admits to lingering body dysmorphia and the pressures of the beauty world—even for those creating it.
  • “Oh, I totally do. There’s no question. My friends laugh at me all the time. I’m teeny, but I always think I have to lose weight.” — Bobbi Brown [55:54]
• [56:47] Personal anecdote: Lorraine Bracco’s bare-faced beauty illustrating Bobbi’s aesthetic philosophy that makeup should enhance, not hide.
• [57:39] “It’s my beauty aesthetic. … There are a lot of celebrities and makeup artists that have a different aesthetic. … But it’s been working for a long time.”— Bobbi Brown

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13. Imposter Syndrome, Surreal Moments, and Gratitude

• [58:14] Candid moments of reflecting on how natural talents brought totally unexpected opportunities—like meeting Bill Gates and trips to The White House.
  • “Doing makeup brought me to this place. … Then guess what I did. … I went home and did the laundry.” – Bobbi Brown [60:10-60:12]

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14. Perfectionism: Double-Edged Sword

• [60:52] Bobbi discusses being a perfectionist and multitasker at work, insisting that team dynamics work best when everyone’s passionate and communicative, but that she has to work at not “picking” at others in her personal life.
  • “So many times Steven will say to me, ‘I don’t work for you.’ … I’m so used to saying, do this, do this, I need this.” – Bobbi Brown [64:09-64:21]
  • “Perfectionism does sometimes bleed into my personal life … but we’re always evolving and the best people want to be better versions of themselves.” — Bobbi Brown

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Instead of going overboard, I’ve realized that the less I do, the more I’m me. And that’s the secret of what makes me happy.” – Bobbi Brown [05:10]
• “It was really hard to watch. … He (her brother) ended up, after decades, being homeless. He ended up passing away of a drug overdose.” – Bobbi Brown [11:52]
• “I do really well when I’m driving or when I’m moving. … I bought a book on adult ADHD. I couldn’t read it.” – Bobbi Brown [18:19]
• “Know what pisses them off. Don’t do it. … I’m sorry I upset you. That doesn’t mean I was wrong. I am. I’m sorry I upset you.” – Bobbi Brown [19:39]
• “We only figured it out because we’re ninjas. … It’s about being a ninja. It’s about figuring out what you have to do.” – Bobbi Brown [23:44]
• “To me, it’s common sense. The way to choose a foundation is you try it on the side of your face. If it disappears, it’s the right color.” – Bobbi Brown [27:20]
• “When I left the company, it was a billion dollar brand.” – Bobbi Brown [37:58]
• “What they said is, they want you to be the head of the brand, but get out of the data. And to me, that’s firing. … The day-to-day is why I did what I did.” – Bobbi Brown [45:28]
• “I’m not someone that sits idly by and knits or needlepoints or plays kaluki … I just started calling people and going out and finding things to do.” – Bobbi Brown [48:23]
• “It blew up.” – Dax Shepard & Bobbi Brown (on TikTok success) [53:48]
• “Oh, I totally do (body dysmorphia). … I’m teeny, but I always think I have to lose weight.” – Bobbi Brown [55:54]
• “It’s my beauty aesthetic. … But it’s been working for a long time.” — Bobbi Brown [57:58]

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:10] – Embracing authenticity in beauty, especially for teenagers
• [11:52] – Story of Bobbi’s brother and family struggles
• [16:52] – Mother’s mental health, pressure, and early beauty interventions
• [19:39] – Marriage advice and relationship philosophy
• [23:44] – New York hustle, “ninja” mindset
• [27:20] – Revolutionizing foundation shades for all skin tones
• [34:49] – Breaking into retail via Bergdorf Goodman
• [36:27] – Selling Bobbi Brown Cosmetics to Estée Lauder, non-compete terms
• [45:28] – Corporate conflict, feeling “fired” from her own brand
• [48:23] – Life reinvention post-Bobbi Brown Cosmetics
• [51:43] – Jones Road Beauty: product discovery, business launch
• [53:29] – Pivot to TikTok and explosive brand growth
• [55:54] – Body image, dysmorphia, personal honesty
• [60:52] – Managing perfectionism at work and home

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Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth look into Bobbi Brown’s journey—her personal and professional evolution, the challenges of building and leaving a legacy brand, and her unwavering belief in authenticity, both in beauty and business. The conversation is peppered with humor, vulnerability, and practical wisdom, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in entrepreneurship, the beauty world, or the complexities of “being human.”

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“We’re always evolving and the best people are the ones that want to be better versions of themselves.”
— Bobbi Brown [64:10]

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Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. Experts on Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi. We have such a fun woman on today.

[Monica Padman]

We really do. A legend.

[Dax Shepard]

A legend that I was lucky enough to be seated next to at something and I really was charmed by her. Bobby Brown. Brown. A lot of Bobby Browns. I think that was my first question to her. How do you deal with the legendary R B singer Bobby Brown?

[Monica Padman]

Right. Well, you didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

His daughter, Bobby Brown. Millie Bobby Brown. There's a lot of Bobby Browns in the mix.

[Monica Padman]

Millie Bobby Brown is Bobby Brown's daughter.

[Dax Shepard]

No, Bobby Brown is Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown's daughter.

[Monica Padman]

Uh huh.

[Dax Shepard]

There's four Bobby Browns in this story. Oh, Bobby Brown who is married to Whitney Houston.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Their daughter Bobby Brown. They have a son, Bobby Brown as well. Son Bobby Brown.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And then Millie Bobby Brown separate. And then Bobby Brown. So that's five.

[Monica Padman]

I see.

[Dax Shepard]

And I guess I asked her if when she shows up for a reservation, they're wondering like, well, which will it be? Okay. Bobby is a world renowned makeup artist, bestselling author, entrepreneur and founder of Jones Road Beauty. And she is here to talk about her new memoir, they Do It Right.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Memoir called Still Bobby and Gang. I just love her big time Laura Laveau vibes for me. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And she's just an epic businesswoman. Get to hear a lot about that. It's really a cool episode.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And she's got a for real, no shit take on things. Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Bobbi Brown]

You guys. I just got it yesterday one so it's the real thing.

[Monica Padman]

Is that a Lingua franca sweater you're wearing? I'm so excited for this because Teenage Beauty was an iconic book for me. So now it's Wait, you read Teenage Beauty? Yes, it was gifted to me when I was maybe in 8th grade from my aunt who loved makeup. And yeah, it was iconic. It was like the pre makeup video.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

In book form.

[Bobbi Brown]

I've written two teenage books.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So this is such a beautiful.

[Dax Shepard]

So wait, what was the proprietary take for teenagers? Was there also some messaging about embrace.

[Bobbi Brown]

What you are 100%? You know, it's so normal to feel less than, especially as a teenager. I felt it. There's no question why I'm doing what I do for a living. And instead of going overboard, I've realized that the less I do, the more I'M me. And that's the secret of what makes me happy.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what's interesting is we can conceptually acknowledge that we're attracted to novelty in every space. Like, if you see a unique car, that's interesting. If you see a unique bit of architecture. But we think that uniqueness in our faces is not gonna be appealing. But in fact, it is. I was trying to tell Monica, like, you're the only one that looks like Monica. It's so exciting.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, uniqueness.

[Bobbi Brown]

But I always find similarities in people. I'm like, you look like. I always think I know someone, but I haven't seen that person in, like, 30 years. But that's what they used to look like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I have a pattern recognition obsession too. Like, if there's a voice that's remind, I cannot stop thinking about it until I figure it out.

[Bobbi Brown]

Are you a visual learner, like I am?

[Dax Shepard]

Explain visual learning and maybe I'll agree.

[Bobbi Brown]

This could explain everything in pictures. I understand about everything. I can't read how to do something. But if someone shows me I could do it, or if there's pictures, then yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I've said to Monica many times, if I could watch a video on open heart surgery, I'm certain I could do it.

[Bobbi Brown]

Did you get Ds in math and science?

[Dax Shepard]

Not math and science, but reading and literature. Anything that I had to.

[Monica Padman]

Well, he has dyslexia.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And you probably had something, right, that.

[Bobbi Brown]

We just don't definitely have add. I don't have ocd, but I have OCD tendencies. I like things lined up, but then I mess them up in two seconds.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

I love a clean drawer.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, let's start with where we just met. I'm gonna say that I had a lovely time sitting next to you. I hope it was mutual.

[Bobbi Brown]

Are you kidding? Two things made that night besides the award, which is really cool.

[Dax Shepard]

So it was the Times 100 Most Influential People. You were among the awardees, and so was Kristen. And we were seated at your table, and you and I were seated directly next to each other.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right. And I just remember saying, oh, my God, those are the coolest Vans with your tuxed. That was, like, the first thing I noticed. See this visual thing?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Bobbi Brown]

To me, it's like, well, this guy's really cool. Like, he made that choice to do that because it's what makes him comfortable.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my gosh. Wonderful, authentic. And then you, in all the best ways, reminded me of my mother, who's a fucking gangster. She's just a self Made. She was a single woman or a single woman. She was a single mother building a company, and she was just indomitable. And I immediately was like, oh, yeah, yeah, this is the same spirit as my mom.

[Bobbi Brown]

And what company?

[Dax Shepard]

It was in the automotive industry. So all of the press fleet for General Motors. Ding, ding, ding. You worked in the GM building forever. Those get lent out to journalists. We throw big car shows and we manage those fleets and all that stuff.

[Bobbi Brown]

That's cool. Speaking of the car industry, my papa Sam came from Russia and he ended up to be Cadillac Sam. But for years he sold Ramblers, DeSotos, Plymouths. He made his name in Chicago with this car dealership. My Uncle Albert had one. So I kind of grew up in the car industry.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, what did you.

[Bobbi Brown]

My dad, who was 21 when I was born, personal injury lawyer.

[Dax Shepard]

Was his face on a bus stop.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was not. But at the time we heard a siren, my mother turned to him and said, oh, they're playing our song.

[Dax Shepard]

They're playing our song.

[Bobbi Brown]

But he stopped being a lawyer and became an entrepreneur without even realizing it. He started following his passion. He became a journalist and a writer for WE magazine. He traveled the world. And then when he needed money, he went back to being a lawyer. He retired at 70 from being a lawyer, and he started being a children's book author. He has now written 10 children's books.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

How Cool.

[Bobbi Brown]

And Mom a Homemaker.

[Dax Shepard]

A homemaker. Okay. And where did they meet?

[Bobbi Brown]

They met in college at Drake University in Iowa. And they're both from Chicago. And my mom made it a semester.

[Dax Shepard]

But had met him in that semester.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's all she needed, right? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So this kind of worked.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And they were both coincidentally, like, chubby kids and they lost weight and they became incredibly good looking. So you'll see the theme in my life about being a chubby kid or gorgeous. I could never be gorgeous.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. How many Jewish folks were in the community you grew up in?

[Bobbi Brown]

It's easier to count the ones that were not Jewish.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, that's good. Because I was gonna ask if there was any kind of trying to assimilate to this WASPy thing and if that was the kernel of why I'm not pretty.

[Bobbi Brown]

No, but first of all, I was obsessed with the WASPy thing. Being a Jewish kid. I would see my friends, they had this great green stuff going on in their. It was very Ralph Lauren.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, right.

[Bobbi Brown]

But not Ralph Lauren. The real Ralph Lauren.

[Dax Shepard]

The Kennedy kind of aesthetic.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. I mean, I'm still obsessed with the Royal Family.

[Dax Shepard]

So is Monica. I like Great Obsession. I'm mad. I don't like monarchies, you know, I.

[Bobbi Brown]

Just love the pretense around everything, the tea and the whole thing.

[Dax Shepard]

You like the traditions and the pageantry.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I like the traditions of being Jewish. I'm not a religious Jew. And now that my kids are married to people from other religions and other cultures, I have a little bit of everything. And so I'm really happy.

[Dax Shepard]

I like the Jewish traditions a lot as well. My brother converted and I've participated in a ton. And of course, half my friends here in LA are Jewish and I've gotten to go to all of them and they're great. I've thought if I was forced at gunpoint to join a religion, that would be the one.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I was thinking Quaker. I don't know that much about Quakers, but I know they like oatmeal, they like simple things.

[Monica Padman]

They're about kindness.

[Bobbi Brown]

They're about kindness. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We just had someone on who grew up Quaker.

[Bobbi Brown]

But the same in the Indian culture.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Hinduism has a lot of that.

[Dax Shepard]

You had a brother or you had more?

[Bobbi Brown]

There was three of us by the time my dad was 25, he had three kids. He was a lawyer. I had a younger brother and a younger sister. And my brother was the middle kid and the most gorgeous, brilliant kid that just had the absolute worst life.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's very sad what happened.

[Dax Shepard]

Why?

[Bobbi Brown]

He never listened. I think he was too smart for his own good. And back then, parents didn't know what to do with kids that were troubled. Yeah, you know, they didn't know what to do with me with my learning disorders. They just stopped punishing me. My mom said, you'll probably never be a secretary. She was right. Yeah, Skipped a couple, you know, so she let me drop out of typing. So my brother, he was always troubled. He always got in trouble. He didn't pay attention. You couldn't read his writing, but he would do testing and off the charts. And then when he was 16, he took my parents car and hit a tree. And they told my parents, he is going to die, they should call a priest. My mother nursed him back to health and he just had a lot of issues. It was really hard to watch. I did everything I could to help him and turned out when he finally got diagnosed, he had personality disorder, which borderline. Borderline personality, which is the worst thing because you can't take a pill for it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, right.

[Bobbi Brown]

And so he struggled. And then what do you do if you're struggling? You take Drugs, an upper, a downer, a sideways, whatever. And he ended up, after decades, being homeless, he ended up passing away of a drug overdose.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

We had a borderline personality disorder expert on. And I have to say, I entered the interview, I've dealt with that condition. And friends, I don't like it. And I think I was really judgmental. But I will say, we had this person on. I was like, oh, fuck. Yeah, that's right. No one wants to be born this way. The foundational problem is I really don't believe you love me. And I'm gonna kind of manifest or prove that. And what a hard, hard way to go through life. And I've since met people since we had that episode on that are like, oh, my God, I love that episode. I'm edp. I've been working on it for four years. I'm like, that's right, man. All these people are just born with this.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right? The sad thing is, for my dad, who's still alive, he's 90 and a half years old, is that every time Michael would do something stupid, he was just angry and pissed. And they'd scream at each other. I'm like, dad. It's like as if he has cancer, he has something he can't help. He could have done this. I told him to do this. And, you know, my dad said, here, I've this daughter that gets times 100. And I've got this homeless kid. Like, what the hell?

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure he feels guilty about that.

[Bobbi Brown]

He does.

[Monica Padman]

At some point, you can't protect your kids.

[Bobbi Brown]

And then you have to. Yeah, no, you feel bad.

[Monica Padman]

You feel bad.

[Bobbi Brown]

You do. But when he passed away, we had a memorial for him. And it was so healing. Cause all of his friends came from when he was younger. And all we did is talk about the good Michael and all the great things. So he got to walk away and say, okay, let's just not think about all the bad things. Cause trust me, it was bad in your success.

[Monica Padman]

Cause you're escalating and escalating, and that's happening simultaneously. Are you feeling a lot of guilt?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I'm so lucky I have my husband, because he's a rock. And he would deal with things, and his secretary would deal with things. There was always a phone call or an emergency. Started out as simple as the electricity is going off. And then it was way, way worse. I'd be on someone's yacht having this amazing dinner, and the phone would ring. Or I'd be in Paris at a Great restaurant. And it'd be my brother, who needs something, something. And we'd have to stop what we're doing. The juxtaposition was bizarre.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I. I mean, it made me feel terrible for him, but I could look at myself in the mirror and say, bobby, you did everything in your power.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's great. You didn't feel that kind of survivor's guilt?

[Bobbi Brown]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, why didn't he also get my.

[Bobbi Brown]

My normalness? No. And it's weird. How could people growing up in the same house. One is. I mean, I hate to say I'm normal, but I'm kind of normal and functioning. I'm functioning.

[Dax Shepard]

You were within the spectrum.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm totally in the spectrum. And he was not. And then I have a baby sister whose whole life is about helping others.

[Dax Shepard]

You have three boys. I have three boys. I have two little girls. I imagine the stress of that for your mother must have been pretty overwhelming.

[Bobbi Brown]

I think so. But upper middle class, suburbs, My dad, a lawyer, he made a good salary. We always had some help in the house, some interesting help. We had Charlie, who my dad got out of jail and he babysat us for years. That's not in the book. We had Charlie. And the last day Charlie worked for us, if you opened our coat closet, you'd see a car. Cause he drove a car through the garage into the coat closet. So my dad finally fired him after decades.

[Monica Padman]

Charlie.

[Dax Shepard]

Charlie. He hadn't been in prison for another vehicular incident, had he?

[Bobbi Brown]

I don't think he was in prison since my dad helped him.

[Dax Shepard]

And what I know from the book is you're insanely close to your dad. You call him endlessly throughout your life for advice. The night you meet Steven, you call him the same husband. That's a very clear and special relationship. What was the relationship with Mom?

[Bobbi Brown]

My mom was diagnosed with manic depressive, and she had her first, quote, unquote nervous breakdown when I was in seventh grade.

[Dax Shepard]

This would have been in the 70s. Right. So they don't know anything about how to deal with it.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right. When One Flew out of the Cuckoo's Nest came up.

[Monica Padman]

So they just thought she was crazy.

[Bobbi Brown]

We would visit her in the hospital and everyone else looked like that movie. She was on so many drugs, they just gave her a lot of lithium and she just was making, like, ashtrays. I don't know what she was making.

[Dax Shepard]

How scary was that?

[Bobbi Brown]

It was intense. But I'm someone that always sees the positive. I got to get in the car with my dad just Me and him and drive to the hospital and listen to music and talk. And I look at that as a positive. I got really close to my dad and then mom came home and things got better. And then they got divorced. And then she met a great guy. She married him.

[Dax Shepard]

That's rare. Good.

[Bobbi Brown]

And then he died.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, man.

[Bobbi Brown]

He had a massive heart attack. I happened to have been home from college.

[Dax Shepard]

What were you telling peers when they would come over and mom wasn't there? Were you able to admit she's away somewhere?

[Bobbi Brown]

I don't remember. Isn't that so weird? I don't remember it being such a big deal. I do remember the woman my dad hired named Elsie who let us have butter on our buns with our hamburgers and french fries. And my mother was always a health nut. Her weight turned into a health obsession. So we became all healthy people because of it.

[Dax Shepard]

She suggested that you needed to get a nose job.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. My mom came to me one day in bed and she said, I think you're soap. And I said, thanks, Mom. And we were really close and she said, but I think you'd be gorgeous if you had your nose fixed.

[Dax Shepard]

I love fixed as a term.

[Bobbi Brown]

All the Jewish girls had their nose fixed. And I remember looking at her and saying, I don't think there's anything wrong with my nose. And she said, yeah, but it would look so cute. I said, my nose is fine. And she said, when you're older, you're probably gonna need your eyes done too.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

Which I haven't done. It's on my list.

[Dax Shepard]

I do that outpatient.

[Monica Padman]

Like a lift?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. Or like you take the excess skin out. It's the one plastic surgery that I. I see people do that I think looks great, but I just don't want to do it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. And how old were you when she said this?

[Bobbi Brown]

Just started college.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You're not in need of that at 6. I don't want to broadcast your age.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm 68 years old.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're not in need of it.

[Bobbi Brown]

My lines in my face, I think look okay.

[Monica Padman]

They do.

[Dax Shepard]

They look great. You're a babe. I think I told you that when I was sitting next to you.

[Bobbi Brown]

I would remember that. I just remember the shout out from Snoop Dogg, which I thought I was so cool until the next day I found out that my brother in law's friend wrote his monologue. That's how I got in it. Snoop really didn't know who I.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, my hook are crook. So you were not a great student. I wasn't how did you get into Emerson?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I felt bad I wasn't a great student. I really thought I was dumb. And now I realize things that are boring don't interest me. And things that are interesting really interest me.

[Dax Shepard]

As we learn more about adhd. It sounds like you just really have.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, and I do really well when I'm driving or when I'm moving. It's funny. I bought a book on adult adhd. I couldn't read it.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't read books.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

But I kind of, you know, leaf through it.

[Dax Shepard]

How to Deal with Blindness as a book.

[Bobbi Brown]

Kind of like your mom. I fit. I literally print things out, and I use a pen and I fix it, and then I hand it to someone to type, and they retype it and give it back to me, and I read it again.

[Dax Shepard]

So how'd you get into Emerson?

[Bobbi Brown]

It was my third college, and I went to University of Wisconsin, first at Oshkosh, not Madison. Followed a boyfriend. I graduated high school early, not because I was smart, but because I was always getting my work done. And so we went, and then we all transferred to University of Arizona for a year with the boy in Tucson with a boyfriend who I'd been with for five years. We had this friend, and the three of us all became three musketeers. And then in the end of the summer, the high school boyfriend fell in love with the other guy. Cause he just realized he was gay.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

But the bad news? The other guy and me fell in love.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a real trying.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I stayed with the other guy for 12 years.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

Until I met my husband.

[Dax Shepard]

You're such a serial monogamist. Cause you've been, what, 30, 37 years? 37 years with Stephen.

[Monica Padman]

Congratulations.

[Bobbi Brown]

Thank you. I know how to have a happy marriage.

[Monica Padman]

Do tell.

[Bobbi Brown]

Please, everyone, get your pens out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Know it pisses them off. Don't do it. That seems easy, but it's really hard to do. I'm sorry I upset you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

That doesn't mean I was wrong. I am. I'm sorry I upset you.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want you to be upset.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And if I played a role in.

[Bobbi Brown]

It, I'm really sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

So you got to Emerson?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, I got to Emerson. I literally flew up, saw the Magic Pan Outdoor Cafe. You know, being from Chicago, I'm like, I want to go here. And I got in the day before school started, I created my own major. They didn't have a makeup major.

[Dax Shepard]

It was theatrical makeup.

[Bobbi Brown]

Theatrical makeup and a minor in photography.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you Stick with photography.

[Bobbi Brown]

Are you kidding?

[Dax Shepard]

Are you?

[Monica Padman]

She loves visuals.

[Bobbi Brown]

My Instagram is like, your actual. Yeah, I'm active, and if I'm not putting something up, I'm scrolling, and it feeds my curiosity.

[Dax Shepard]

It's also an ADHD salve.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, it calms me down, too. I had a business coach. I said, you know, I come home at night, my family's watching tv, and I'm sitting there with my iPad, and my husband's always like, what are you doing? You're not paying attention. I'm like, I am. She said, it calms you down. It's like you're knitting and it does.

[Monica Padman]

Your life is about visuals, so I'm not surprised. It's literally painting the face so it makes sense.

[Bobbi Brown]

But I'm also really curious about things. I always think there's an answer to everything, so I'm like, I'll find it.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's something in that that tells me there's just a simmering, maybe anxiety, and if I know how it works, I can alleviate the anxiety.

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, it's funny. I texted my girlfriends, the original girlfriends, that we all raised our kids together because I'm going deep into this book thing, and I thank them for being there for me for all the years. And they said, how are you doing? I said, I don't know if I should take a Xanax or an Adderall. And my one girl said, I would take a Xanax. I said, well, I took an Adderall.

[Dax Shepard]

So you graduated with this degree. Now, when you graduated with that, did you have fantasies of working in film and television?

[Bobbi Brown]

Absolutely. I wanted to be a movie makeup artist. It was glamorous. When I was in college, I wrote a letter to my stepfather's uncle, Sheldon Keller, who was a very famous producer, saying, I want to be a makeup artist. I want to come to la. Took him three months to write me back. He sent me my letter back with all the spelling corrections and said, don't ever send a letter like this until you proofread it. And that was it. So I said, all right, I guess I'm not going into tough love. So then I moved to New York instead.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow, wow, wow. Okay, so initially that did appeal to.

[Bobbi Brown]

You, but it's boring.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm gonna tell you my stereotype of makeup artists. I've been working with them very closely for 20 plus years. First of all, I love them as a department. They're generally my favorite department. My stereotype is all of them were pretty popular, pretty darn social, pretty empathetic. But not the homecoming queen. They were like popular, but they weren't the belle of the ball.

[Bobbi Brown]

I was in the popular group. I always felt, and my friends say I was wrong. I always felt that I had to work really hard to be liked. But I think it's also my size. I'm five foot tall.

[Dax Shepard]

Love it.

[Monica Padman]

Me too.

[Bobbi Brown]

You are too.

[Monica Padman]

Mm.

[Bobbi Brown]

We have a different thing and it makes us successful. If it doesn't make you totally neurotic and insecure.

[Monica Padman]

Or both.

[Bobbi Brown]

Or both, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it anger you when people try to help you?

[Bobbi Brown]

No. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

My wife's got that. She's like, I'm not a baby. You don't need to do this and that.

[Bobbi Brown]

Working really hard with a physical trainer on being able to, no matter what, get off the floor and take my suitcase and put it on top. I don't want to ask someone to do that. I don't want help getting in and out of cars. And I don't want anyone opening up a jar for me. You know when you get those water bottles and I'm like, oh, my God, I won't let anyone do it.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to see your training session. Just like a thousand bottles lined up, cracking the seal. Okay, so you get to New York in 1980.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. You graduated in 79. 1980.

[Dax Shepard]

When I was reading this chapter, I was like, oh, this is so similar to being an aspiring actor and just landing in LA and going like, how the fuck, right? Wait, there's a union. How do I get in? The union people have agents. How does one get an.

[Bobbi Brown]

But you know what? We only figured it out because we're ninjas. Everyone's like, is the book about resiliency? Not really. It's about being a ninja. It's about figuring out what you have.

[Dax Shepard]

To do, following leads. You're almost like a detective and asking questions.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm very naive. I love that quality about me. But I'm not afraid to ask questions. But you know, I literally opened up the yellow pages when I got to New York. I just looked up models, modeling agencies, and I figured it out. Kind of what I do now on ChatGPT.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you had a stopover though, at a transvestites house, which is fascinating.

[Bobbi Brown]

No, no, no. He came to my house.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he came to your house?

[Bobbi Brown]

He came to my house. That was terrifying. Especially back then. I needed to make money, so I put an ad in the Village Voice. Makeup lessons, makeup artists teaching. And some guy called and said, I'd love to come. I'm an actor playing a role I said, great. I don't remember if it was $100, $200. And he came to my then boyfriend's studio with his Louis Vuitton bag full of women's lingerie. He was wearing Gucci loafers. And I'm like, this guy's from.

[Dax Shepard]

And he got in outfit after outfit. Cause he wanted a different look for each.

[Bobbi Brown]

He wanted me to teach him a different look for each.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Well, hold on. We gotta go back a second. So you feel like you learned when you were in college, like, you learned the techniques?

[Bobbi Brown]

No, I didn't learn anything about makeup. I signed up for everything. I became the makeup artist to the film department, the plays, and so I would have to read the scripts, which were not easy for me, and. And visualize what the characters should be and then design the makeup.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. It's just like trial and error a little bit.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And I figured it out, and in retrospect, it's taught me what not to do in makeup. Like, yeah, you're gonna put something grayish on your lips. You're gonna look dead. You wanna look young. You do pink on the cheeks. So I learned a lot of things.

[Dax Shepard]

But we're already getting to what is true in so many industries, which is being creative is really one sliver of the pie. Being talented is one sliver. It's the Yellow Pages in the fucking Village Voice ad, and it's the going to the union. Going how? And sadly for artistic people, that's about 70% of it.

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, no. It is. And by the way, even when you made it, even after I had a Vogue cover, I still had to work on it. You have to work on everything all the time. And when people say it's so hard, I'm like, yeah, what isn't hard in life? Everything's hard.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

What would you say were the milestones that bring you to 1990 when you decide to make your first few products?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I decided to make the first products because I accidentally met a chemist who made his own lipstick, and I said, I always wanted to make a lipstick. He said, tell me about it. I said, I wanted it to not smell bad. I wanted it to be creamy and not dry, not greasy, and I wanted it to be the color of my lips.

[Dax Shepard]

So, really quick, that's your novel proprietary take on makeup. Had you already discovered that was your brand and your point of view? When did that happen?

[Bobbi Brown]

When I first started doing that kind of makeup, I had people saying, you're never gonna work if you do that. People wanna have the white faces and the contouring and the overlining and the blue and the yellow.

[Dax Shepard]

This is the 80s. Remind everyone people have wild slashes of pink on their face and spattered paint.

[Bobbi Brown]

I did fashion shows. I loved all that fun, creative. But I made it look beautiful. I didn't find it attractive. I don't think I was that talented in that kind of makeup. So I started doing things like, how's this for brilliant? Finding a foundation that was the color of your skin. It wasn't popular, you know, you don't know, but your mother and your grandmother know.

[Monica Padman]

No, I know. I was like, I need to thank Bobby for this. Bobbi Brown is the first makeup brand that I had that had my color for my face.

[Bobbi Brown]

To me, it's common sense. The way to choose a foundation is you try it on the side of your face. If it disappears, it's the right color.

[Monica Padman]

But lots of brands don't even have all the options. You had such a wide range, and.

[Bobbi Brown]

A lot of brands have the options, but they're bad options because who's making these decisions?

[Monica Padman]

Right, Exactly.

[Bobbi Brown]

Not a makeup artist.

[Dax Shepard]

By 1990, are you kind of a famous makeup artist?

[Bobbi Brown]

I am in the fashion industry. By 1990, I had a cover of Vogue, and I was written about in the magazines. You know, Bobby Brown says the trend for the season. But I also was a new mom. My oldest son was born in 1990.

[Dax Shepard]

The publicity angle's enormous in this, right? When do you figure out that aspect? Being in that magazine's huge. How do I get in that magazine?

[Bobbi Brown]

I knew the first time I did Glamour magazine, and it said on the side, really small hair and makeup by Bobby Brown. I was like, wow. And then I got phone calls. And then the more I got that and the more people liked either my work or mostly I think they liked me.

[Dax Shepard]

So this is huge. You're a makeup artist, and especially if you're a woman you're gonna spend three and a half hours with, sometimes on a day going to the Emmys, Kristen will be with someone in her face for three and a half hours, probably.

[Bobbi Brown]

The same person she usually uses because it's about relationships.

[Dax Shepard]

They're great, but their personality is wonderful.

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, 100% huge. Part the of it's your posse. I have my posse.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, this Howard Roark notion that you'll just be brilliant and everyone will just fucking deal with whatever because you're brilliant. That is not how the world works in any way.

[Bobbi Brown]

And you've got to figure it out. And sometimes it works. And Guess what? Sometimes it doesn't work. And then you have to say, okay, that didn't work. What can I do about it?

[Monica Padman]

Now, back then, was it you had clients and they brought you on for the covers, or was the magazine hired?

[Bobbi Brown]

It was usually the stylist, the photographer.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, got it.

[Bobbi Brown]

And then when I was a fashion makeup artists, celebrities were the. No. Unless you were Elizabeth Taylor on the COVID of Bizarre. It wasn't all about the celebrities. So really it was the supermodels. It was the Cindy's. Naomi. Linda.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Who are some of the gals you were working with?

[Bobbi Brown]

Cindy Crawford, Linda Vagelista, Christy Turlington.

[Dax Shepard]

She's my favorite. I watched that models doc, which I knew nothing about any of those folks, and I was like, oh, that's the one I love.

[Bobbi Brown]

You've never met her.

[Dax Shepard]

No. We watched that thing, and then I was at the Sphere, and I looked over and I was like, oh, my God, honey, she's right.

[Bobbi Brown]

There she is. I see her in a lot of parties in the Hamptons. She hasn't done one thing to us.

[Dax Shepard]

I was gonna say, talk about natural.

[Bobbi Brown]

She is stunning and wonderful and still happily married.

[Dax Shepard]

She's an anomaly.

[Bobbi Brown]

She really is.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you want this lipstick through your savviness and again, your work ethic and figuring things out. You do end up getting this in Bergdorf's.

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, he made a lipstick for me, and it was the color of my lips, and I loved it. And I said, oh, my God, I bet I could sell this. He says, I'll make it. I'll give it to you. Will charge $15. You take $7.50. I take $7.50. I said, great. And I said, people are gonna love this. Then I realized people have different colored lips. This is not gonna look good on someone with darker lips or paler lips. So my ninja brain is like, okay, what colors? And honestly, I was going to the park with my kid. They had nanny friends. I looked at women from all over the world, and I kind of started studying the lips and realizing some women of color had pink lips and some had dark purple lips. Yeah, Indian women have this kind of really cool heather blue lips. And by the way, in the industry, most of the magazines and makeup artists would say, this is how you correct if your lips are too dark.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Bobbi Brown]

I don't believe in correcting. I believe in enhancing. I don't draw pencils outside of my lips.

[Monica Padman]

Same.

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, you don't have to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's true. Shut up.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't have a glass it's like me talking about my height or something.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right? But you know what? We all have gifts in life, and when you start realizing your superpower, that I think is the secret.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I had to go like, yeah, I don't have the nose I want. If my mom had said, let's fix it, I might have said yes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I know it's been, thank God you're coming to me for this.

[Bobbi Brown]

But I heard you and Bradley Cooper talking about you guys didn't like your faces when you were young. I'm like, what the hell? You guys are so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't it comforting that Bradley says that? I'm like, all right.

[Bobbi Brown]

No one's immune to everybody being a makeup artist. The stuff you hear from supermodels. And over my years, I did Mike Tyson, Matthew McConney, Barack Obama, Jill Biden. You get to hear how everyone feels about themselves. And no one's like, no one is like, I'm fabulous. Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's like, I nailed it. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by kachava. This is an exciting time to be a cachava fan because they've just launched a new flavor, Strawberry. Gosh, do I love strawberry.

[Monica Padman]

So good. So good. It's so exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Bobbi Brown]

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're.

[Dax Shepard]

Not sure where to start.

[Bobbi Brown]

Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint.

[Dax Shepard]

Finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is with thumbtack.

[Bobbi Brown]

You don't have to be a home pro.

[Dax Shepard]

You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see.

[Bobbi Brown]

Price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download thumbtack today. One famous supermodel, never forget. And I can't believe I'm telling you this story. She lifted up her shirt and she said, could you just tell me, are they the same size?

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course not. None of them are.

[Bobbi Brown]

I said, yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

I lied. I'm sorry. What was I gonna say?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, just lie.

[Dax Shepard]

No wonder you've been married for so long. So how many did different colors do you.

[Monica Padman]

10.

[Bobbi Brown]

We launched with 10. And I started just selling them to people that would want to buy them. Friends and neighbors. And then one day, I was having lunch with a friend of mine who happened to be the beauty editor of Glamour magazine. You know, we're talking about, how are the kids? She had just had a baby. I had a baby. And she's like, what else is going on? I said, well, I'm doing this little project. We didn't call it side Hustles back then. And she said, tell me about it. And she goes, oh, my God, can I write about it? I'm like, why would you want to write about it? Now I know that's called Princess. And we wrote about it and got bombarded with orders because it was so different.

[Dax Shepard]

And these were like, someone would send you mail, right, to request it.

[Bobbi Brown]

There was a phone number. I think it was the chemist or my home phone. I don't even remember. My husband Steven, who was in law school at the time, would literally mail them out to the post office. And eventually we brought my sister in law in to do the books. And I was still a working makeup artist because with Stephen in law school, we needed to pay the mortgage.

[Dax Shepard]

Then you get into Bergdorf's.

[Bobbi Brown]

We got into Bergdorf's not because I pitched them, because I was at a party in the city and I said to someone, I thought she was a fancy lady, thanks for inviting me. And she said, oh, I'm a big fan. I said, oh, you know who I am? I said, well, what do you do? She said, I'm the cosmetics buyer at Burgdorf Goodman. I said, oh, I'm working on this lipstick. She goes, why don't we take it?

[Dax Shepard]

Let's give it a run. And the expectation was that you would move hopefully 100amonth.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you immediately started moving 100 a day?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yes, in the beginning. And then while things were growing, we joined with this other couple, business partners.

[Dax Shepard]

Who were they? I just read. Another couple?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, another couple.

[Dax Shepard]

Were they friends or.

[Bobbi Brown]

They were friends.

[Dax Shepard]

You put it. I guess I know where the relationship went.

[Bobbi Brown]

I don't go deep into it in the book, but it was a great relationship. We did really well. It was really tough, but I learned so much. And my husband was so great because I'd be laying in bed at night, literally in tears, and he would say, first of all, we don't talk about things at night. When he's watching Seinfeld. That was our night. We'll talk about it in the morning. And he said, but let them win the battle. We're gonna win the war. I had no idea what he was talking about, but he just would, like, calm down.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's the steady rock and Gibraltar.

[Bobbi Brown]

Literally. He's the guy you want on speed dial for anything you need anytime.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you marry your dad's number.

[Bobbi Brown]

I did not marry my dad.

[Dax Shepard]

You did not marry your dad?

[Bobbi Brown]

No, I married someone that is as smart as my dad or even smarter.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. But different temperament altogether.

[Bobbi Brown]

Very different temperament.

[Dax Shepard]

You're your dad.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm kind of my dad. I'm kind of my dad. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's best not to marry yourself. Yeah. So it grows incredibly fast. A lot of people would think, oh, if I have a great product and people want it, that's. That growing is nearly impossible. Right.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's tough.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause you're constantly trying to anticipate. How much can we now bet on this? Because we gotta scale up.

[Bobbi Brown]

A lot of it is guesses. A lot of it now is data. It's either data or data. I never know what it is.

[Dax Shepard]

If you're a scientist, it's data. And if you're a normal person, it's data.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right, exactly. But basically, I go with my gut. My son, who is the CEO of the company's like, no, mom, it's all data. So I'm like, okay, fine. So when you put that stuff together, it kind.

[Dax Shepard]

So you're nimble, you're flexible, you're pivoting a lot, and you're young the first time.

[Bobbi Brown]

What really put me on the map and put Bobbi Brown Cosmetics in the map. We sold Bobbi Brown Cosmetics to estee Lauder after four and a half years.

[Dax Shepard]

So 95.

[Bobbi Brown]

You sell it?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So 95, we sell it for $75 million.

[Bobbi Brown]

That's kind of the answer.

[Dax Shepard]

Not really.

[Bobbi Brown]

Okay. Only because there was a 25 year buyout.

[Monica Padman]

Can you tell us details of that for people who don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's really, really relevant.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm so lucky I have my husband because I don't really understand it. And he would probably correct me on 10 different things. Was decided will sell the company. It was also plus whatever percentage on some sales.

[Dax Shepard]

They wanted you to continue to run the brand.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right. And I stayed for 22 years.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. So that was my question. So you get 75, but then you also have some participation, I imagine, and then you have a salary.

[Bobbi Brown]

Some participation. Oh, yes. Meaning we would get percentage of sales at the end of the year.

[Dax Shepard]

I say the 75 million not to embarrass you or tell people your business, but I think it's really relevant to think that you started this company and four and a half years later. $75 million in 1995 is really like selling it for 200 million now. 250. It's an enormous success.

[Bobbi Brown]

When I left the company, it was a billion dollar brand.

[Dax Shepard]

Now my question, and this is why I want the details of the contract. Was a 25 year non compete standard. That feels so long.

[Bobbi Brown]

I don't know. I've heard different.

[Dax Shepard]

Look.

[Bobbi Brown]

When I left Bobbi Brown Cosmetics, I had four and a half years left, which on someone who's very impatient. And I was 59 years old, I was just like, oh my God, no.

[Dax Shepard]

It must have been absolutely brutal.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, just forever.

[Dax Shepard]

Like microwave minutes.

[Bobbi Brown]

When I left, I was like, what am I gonna do? Because I'm not someone that sits idly by and knits or needle points or play kaluki or whatever other people do.

[Dax Shepard]

So they acquired it in 95. By 2012, Bobby Brown is responsible for 10% of all total sales for Estee Lauder. So it's enormously successful. They're clearly letting you run it without any issue and it's thriving.

[Bobbi Brown]

That's not exactly.

[Monica Padman]

There were issues.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know, it was doing really well and they were letting me run it without anything for a long time. And that new CEO and everything really became very homogenous.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, antithetical to the original brand. Like they wanted a contour because that's popular right now and you're anti contour.

[Bobbi Brown]

It just didn't make sense for me to change what the brand was built on. I know there were these companies like the Kardashians. I can't compete with with someone that I'm not. I'd rather just be the best version of myself. And that's the business too. And I thought I knew the customer. I thought I knew what women really want. My customer always wanted to look like themselves, but better now.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it possible you were wrong?

[Bobbi Brown]

Possible, but I wasn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's just put it this way, I don't think so. Well, your second venture proves that, but it'd be worth examining. Okay. At the time you had started that trend and that trend took off. Is it possible the trend was moving away from that? Or perhaps 10% of all the market would wanna look that way, but 90% would wanna.

[Bobbi Brown]

Sometimes things go in cycles, and if I was one of these people that followed all those cycles, we would have no identity and we wouldn't be true to anything. Sometimes you have to kind of sit back and wait for things to bounce back. Like, natural beauty to me is not a trend, it's what's supposed to be. And I've always embraced lines in people's faces and freckles and, and different color skin and gaps in the teeth.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's interestingly one of the many things that started happening, which is you found this incredible model with a gap in her teeth. You did a whole campaign only to find out later they had airbrushed her.

[Bobbi Brown]

Teeth to fix it without telling me or asking me. I was pissed.

[Dax Shepard]

What were some of the things that started happening accruing you?

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, my God. When I used to interview every single person that joined the brand, from the person that greets people when they walk down, every single person. And little by little, people were popping up. I'm the head of international, I'm the head of this. And I was like, excuse me. And I remember having a conniption fit. And the president at the time said, they didn't consult me either because there's nothing I could do about it. And so little by little, it started just taking away from what the essence of the brand is.

[Dax Shepard]

And there were moments where they were coming in and you thought they were looking for your sign off or approval and you would disagree and they would say, it's already being released.

[Bobbi Brown]

Why are you bothering me?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, this is like kind of just pageant again.

[Bobbi Brown]

My naivete was, I got this, I could fix this.

[Dax Shepard]

What about the internal confidence in that period? Because I even have waves. Over the last two years, the pushback to wokeness gave rise to this incredibly successful round of podcasters and comedians. And you're just watching this huge swell and you go, like, fuck. It's scary. It can create doubt.

[Bobbi Brown]

It takes change. And I think the important thing is don't rush into anything. Just kind of sit back and observe and let it be and say, okay, what is Right for me. What is right for it? And if you try something different and it doesn't work, go back.

[Dax Shepard]

But was there any moment where you were like, man, do I. Like, I'm fighting? No.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know, I'm sure if people would be interviewed, Bobby was really difficult to work with. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, we're gonna get to that.

[Bobbi Brown]

By the way, if a color shifted in the market, I was difficult. Go back and fix it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

I cared about these stupid things and, you know, I was told, get out of the details. No, you can't.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's the whole point.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's the whole point. And, you know, it's a very different company now.

[Monica Padman]

Does it stress you out that it still has your name on it?

[Bobbi Brown]

No. This is a terrible thing to admit, but it would probably stress me out if it was flying and doing phenomenally well without me.

[Monica Padman]

Ah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what would kill me.

[Monica Padman]

That's very honest.

[Bobbi Brown]

I mean, it is. It's honest. You know, like they thought they didn't need me anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

So in 2016, this growing situation comes to a head. It's also three years of this. It's getting worse and worse and worse. Your overall well being is suffering. You also have two kids who've just left for college. So now I want to go back a little bit and talk about how you decided at that time, running the Brand in New York City, that you guys would go to New Jersey and live there and raise your family there. I think that's a pretty unique decision for someone.

[Bobbi Brown]

We moved to Montclair, New Jersey, the day we got back from our honeymoon.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did?

[Bobbi Brown]

We did. My husband and I decided we just didn't want to raise New York City and we wanted to be more normal. I would come home from these events and go in the Lincoln Tunnel. I always had a driver, and I would take my high shoes off. My hair would go in a scrunchie. I'd put my clogs on and my fanny pack. Now they're all stylish.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bobbi Brown]

But back then, look, I'm wearing my Gucci clogs today. I felt really myself when I went home in my life in Montclair, New Jersey.

[Dax Shepard]

Would it be fair to say that it helped you compartmentalize the stress of the daytime thing? It's like I'm going into a completely different culture in the world, 100%.

[Bobbi Brown]

I would get in that Lincoln Tunnel and I would breathe. I would probably call my mother or my father, just get that out of the way and then call Stephen and say, what are we doing for dinner? Like, I didn't plan, what do the kids have tonight? Where are their soccer things?

[Dax Shepard]

That could be the danger of living in New York because you leave the office. Well, let's walk together now we're having drinks together. And then just the work never, ever ends.

[Bobbi Brown]

And there was no after work drinks because I had a different life. Like my second job. And by the way, anyone that knows me, my kids. Kids are just the most important thing in my life.

[Dax Shepard]

You wrote a thing in there that I can already sense coming. And I try to remind myself, which is the shit in the hallway drove you nuts. The shoes at the door drove you nuts. All the clutter drove you nuts. And now they're gone and it's dead clean. And you're like, I fucking hate this. I hate my job. I think about this so often. It's like Coach Paterno who had this glorious career. They have a statue in front of pen of him. Then the sand. Dusky things happen. They take it down. I'm like, it's never too late for this incredible life to just turn to shit. And did it feel. I thought I had a fairy tale life and now I feel like it's turned to shit.

[Bobbi Brown]

No, I didn't think it turned to shit. It was really a tough period. When I left the brand.

[Dax Shepard]

You lost both your identities.

[Bobbi Brown]

I lost it. But after two days of drinking tequila with my neighbors, seriously, I just started calling people and going out and finding things to do. And then I had a bunch of fun, cool gigs to do.

[Monica Padman]

But you couldn't talk about it, right?

[Bobbi Brown]

No, no. Until the announcement. I'll never forget. Someone called my husband and said, what are we gonna tell everyone? Could we just tell everyone that Bobby's sick? And my husband said, fuck no.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Bobbi Brown]

He said, why don't we just tell them the truth? But I still wasn't at liberty until the announcement came out.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this situation ultimately came to a head. And there was a moment where they offered you the same salary.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, same or more.

[Dax Shepard]

Or more. To go away and show up when needed for kind of pr or when they were wooing another company they wanted to buy.

[Bobbi Brown]

What they said is, they want you to be the head of the brand, but get out of the data. And to me, that's firing. So they will say they didn't fire me. And they would still say it today, but I was fired. I mean, the dayto day is why I did what I did.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's your brand.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was my baby, and I thought it was My brand. So I just said no.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, in retrospect, do you think it could have grown into what it grew to without the infrastructure of Estee Lauder? Or do you think if you had not sold, you could have grown it into that same thing without them?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I think right now Jones Road is bigger than the current Bobby Brown. I don't know that for sure, but I've been told that by some people. We've got like 40 people running around. It's a totally different day and age. Back then I would go into Neiman Marcus and have 40 to 100 women waiting for me. Now we launched something. We've got the Internet and we've got thousands and thousands.

[Monica Padman]

There's Sephoras now and department stores are not really the place.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, Road is direct to consumer. 90% of our sales, 10%, we have stores. I've been driving all over with my husband looking for a location in la. So I'll have to get your take later.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think a lot of people, myself included, that would have been a very hard no. Just knowing I could collect, you're like, I'm already fucked. It's already not my brand. Minimally, I guess I should take some money, right?

[Bobbi Brown]

My very good friend Mickey Drexler said, take the money, start a new brand. I said no, because it wasn't just, here's the money. But it's basically, they said to my husband, she's gotta be there if the team needs a question, but she can't tell them if she doesn't like something. I'm like, what the fuck?

[Dax Shepard]

Also, they wanted you to sign a non disparagement.

[Bobbi Brown]

They wanted to sign a non disparage, which, honestly, I'm trying not to say bad things except the truth, you know, but get me a bottle of tequila and ask me the questions off camera.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, here's some dirt.

[Bobbi Brown]

I say this from the bottom of my heart. I am so grateful for everything that I learned from Estee Lauder. And most of the years were amazing. The last couple years were not. And I know that's what everyone wants to talk about, but for the years, Leonard Lauder, who just passed away, he was my mentor. He was like a father to me. I can call him and say anything to him and ask him any question. He never judged me for not being a smart business graduate. He thought I was brilliant. And he would say, bobby, this is what we gotta do. How can we? And we would come up with a solution. Well, that is not what happened to the organization at the end.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it sounds like from 95 to 2012 was pretty great. It was 17 years at a job where you love is a big win.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And so I left in 17, I think. Was it 16 or 17? You probably know more than me.

[Dax Shepard]

You left in 16.

[Bobbi Brown]

In 16, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you launched in 2020, right? Yes. Okay. So you do a lot of weird, interesting things in that gap. You just keep moving is what you do, which I think is the advisable path. Path. And you become a style editor at you Yahoo.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm assuming I became the beauty editor of Yahoo, which was really cool. But I did that when I was still at the brand.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I had to get permission, so I did that. And then when I left the brand, the first project was develop a hotel with my husband called the George in Montclair.

[Dax Shepard]

31 unique rooms.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow. Cool.

[Bobbi Brown]

31 unique rooms. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's in an old mansion. It is 1901. It was built or something.

[Bobbi Brown]

Wow, you're amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you. I'm trying to wow you.

[Bobbi Brown]

You have wowed me. You had me at hello. The hug you gave me, I will bring that with me.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good. Okay. So you dabbled in some stuff this 25 year non compete. You must have, I'm assuming, been pretty far down the road knowing that was expiring. How do you decide you're going to give it another go?

[Bobbi Brown]

Right. So I left, didn't know what I was going to do. The first thing that was offered to me was by my friend that owned Lord and Taylor at the time. And he said, why don't you do a just Bob, we gotta get people in the stores. You could do anything you want. And I'm like, great. I do well with teams. I got a team together.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you met a gal at the Apple store.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And I hired her as my assistant.

[Monica Padman]

She was like an Apple genius person.

[Bobbi Brown]

She was Apple genius. I knew I needed help with my digital and by the way, she sat there for two and a half hours. You know, they're usually like, can't help you, bye. Helping me, figuring out how to get my number away from the corporation and so I could own the same number.

[Dax Shepard]

She wouldn't give up.

[Bobbi Brown]

She wouldn't give up.

[Dax Shepard]

Bobby's like everyone else would have given up.

[Bobbi Brown]

And she didn't know. She never heard of me. But I offered her the job and she took it. I said, I don't know what we're gonna do.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's Rob back there. I did someone's podcast. I was like, who's this motherfucker. He is on it. I need this guy.

[Bobbi Brown]

I just got his number. First of all, he's from my hometown.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Chicago.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And I want to build one of these in Montclair. He needs your permission to freelance.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he's already got it. And he's already freelancing like a son of a gun. So you did the Lord and Taylor thing. It was great. And then Lord and Taylor went out of business a year later.

[Bobbi Brown]

So then we. We brought it digitally online. We tried to figure stuff out. It wasn't uber successful, but it was fun. Kept me busy. I learned a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

When did you start developing the line?

[Monica Padman]

Jones Road.

[Bobbi Brown]

I got hired to go to India to be the first ever keynote speaker of the Indian Makeup Conference.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

Which was amazing experience. Cody and Pyle were just dating, so trust me, I told every single person that my son's girlfriend is Indian.

[Dax Shepard]

You can trust me again.

[Monica Padman]

Cause you do, I think representative makeup for all types of people. So I'm not surprised at all that they asked you.

[Bobbi Brown]

That was a great experience. And then I got asked to do a masterclass from Masterclass. That was pretty cool. And I started just kind of being curious. I was using all the natural makeup out there. Cause God forbid I put a chemical.

[Dax Shepard]

You weren't using Bobby Brown at that point.

[Bobbi Brown]

No. Emotionally, I couldn't use it. I just didn't want to touch it. Stopped following the Instagram. I want no part of it. I feel you. And then I. I didn't find what I wanted out there in the world. So I said, I wonder if I could do better. And I started calling a couple local chemists. Kind of like when I started. And I'd go in there and tell them what I wanted. There's so many things I'm not good at. Like, I can't fill out the paperwork that needs to be done. I can't do all that stuff. So I hire people to do what I'm not good at. I hired this girl to help me conceptualize, and now she's my coo. But she started as a jack of all trades and product development.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica was a babysitter for us at one point.

[Monica Padman]

I did start out as the baby babysitter. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This bitch is smart. What are we gonna do here?

[Bobbi Brown]

But it works, and it's smart of us to figure it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So the balm, which is one of the most successful parts, was a mistake, which I love. Anything that starts as a big mistake.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was not what I asked for. When it came. I'll never forget. I opened it up and, you know, I was like, God damn it, that's not what I wanted. But I stuck my finger in anyways, and I went like this with my fingers, and I tapped it on. I looked in the mirror. I said, oh, my God, it's a mirror. Because you know what? It's moisture. Whenever you're tired and I have a hippie stick for you, you just take this balm, put it on, and it just makes everything look better. Because, by the way, when people don't look good, it's because they're dehydrated. And when you hydrate yourself, you look better.

[Dax Shepard]

Our friend Eric just told us recently that he's never put lotion on his face like Eric Howells.

[Monica Padman]

He doesn't wash it or put lotion or do anything on his face.

[Dax Shepard]

He looks pretty good. Imagine what he'd look like if he had been moisturizing for the last hour.

[Monica Padman]

I know. We should get him.

[Bobbi Brown]

Something wrong? This guy. What's his name again?

[Dax Shepard]

Rob.

[Bobbi Brown]

Rob. He looks like a baby.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a cherub.

[Bobbi Brown]

He's 37 years old. He's got two kids, and he doesn't have any lines or any age.

[Dax Shepard]

Genetics.

[Monica Padman]

Genetics, yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

100%.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Rob's the cutest guy in Los Feliz. Okay, so the non compete expires. Yes, it's Covid. There's a lot happening in the world at the end of the day.

[Bobbi Brown]

The presidential election is about to happen in a week, and everyone says to me, do not launch this now. We went to big PR agencies. Everyone said, don't do it. I didn't hire any of those PR agencies. I hired my neighbor Lynette down the street, who now is still with me, and I can't live without. She handles all of Jones Road and all of my personal stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Does Cody come in as the head of marketing? Initially.

[Bobbi Brown]

So he started coming in with growth. When he came in, our business quadrupled only because we did a call with Gary Vaynerchuk, and Gary said, go on TikTok now.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So you were forced to go on TikTok.

[Bobbi Brown]

We weren't forced.

[Dax Shepard]

You were.

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, I was forced. This is a really important entrepreneurial thing. When someone says, go hire, go hire a person, I just can't do that. I just do it instantly. Gary said, go hire a team. Go hire an agency. And Cody just picked up the phone and said, go, mom. And we put it up, and that's how it started.

[Dax Shepard]

And it blew up.

[Bobbi Brown]

And it blew up.

[Dax Shepard]

So year one, you guys had 15 million in revenue.

[Bobbi Brown]

I think 18 for sure. I was hoping to do a million.

[Dax Shepard]

Incredible. And then year two was 150.

[Bobbi Brown]

No, no, wait. I don't think we did 150 in year two.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no, no. 2024. You're doing 150. I'm sorry. Yeah, you caught my first big mistake.

[Bobbi Brown]

180 maybe. And now we're just shy of 200 incredible. Industry sources say because you're not allowed to say.

[Monica Padman]

Why aren't you allowed to say, I.

[Bobbi Brown]

Don'T know, it's not cool. I don't know. Whatever.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess to get acquired in five years is pretty miraculous.

[Bobbi Brown]

Isn't this how it works for everybody?

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly. And then you start at the end of 2020, and here we are in 2025, and you now have something that, of course, could get acquired for an enormous amount.

[Monica Padman]

How was your confidence then? When you're on TikTok, it's starting. Are you like, God, I really hope I can do this again?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, no, no, I was never worried about that. You know, I'm like, I don't want to look like an idiot. I don't want someone to listen to this podcast and say, God, Bobby sounds like an asshole. Because sometimes I'm myself and sometimes people think it's the greatest thing. And mostly people that know me will be like, what did she say?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you've been submersed in Beauty for 45 years now. 1980, moved to New York.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I just know that when I'm here in LA way, it's everyone's occupation.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right?

[Dax Shepard]

You can't go more than a couple days without hearing some tip about how to look better, do something better.

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, it's all out there on the Internet. It's crazy. There's so much now. I'm very interested in health and wellness and the hacks that you could do and all these people that are doing all these weird things like peptides, and I'm just like, bring it on, just show me, tell me. So I don't obsess about beauty things anymore. I know, I. I'm not getting work done on my face. I do laser, by the way. I swear by lasers because it doesn't alter my face, but tightens and lifts and things.

[Dax Shepard]

Collagen production.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, all that stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

But in your 30s and 40s, when you were surrounded by that, did that inadvertently make you incredibly self conscious?

[Bobbi Brown]

100%.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have body dysmorphia at all?

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, I totally do. There's no question. My friends laugh at me all the time I'm teeny, but I always think I have to lose weight. And I. And I don't. I have to lose weight. But now I'm trying to build muscle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Which is key.

[Bobbi Brown]

Which is really important.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. When you were juggling these million things and that was on the plate, how consuming was that?

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, my God. So hard. Do you know what it's like going to the Met Gala? I know you do, but as a five foot tall Jewish girl from Chicago who usually I'm behind the scene doing makeup, and once I did someone's makeup and then I had to go get change for the Met Ball, that was like the stupidest thing I've ever done.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you do your own makeup for those events?

[Bobbi Brown]

I. I have someone in my office, my head makeup artist, who does it. She does some things better than me, like my brows. So I always end up taking my hands and I don't like to look like I have a lot of makeup on.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Do you feel like, oh, my God, I'm like the walking face of these brands. That's a little stressful.

[Bobbi Brown]

Look, what I'm selling now is not changing the way you look, so I'm comfortable with it. And the moment in my life changed me forever. I had a party for, I think it was for teenage beauty years ago. And you needed a celebrity to show back then. And I asked my friend Lorraine Bracco if she'd come, and she said, I'll do my best to get there. I'm coming back from la. I'll do my best. Well, the woman shows up. She got off a plane, had not a stitch of makeup on. She walks in, the cameras went crazy. She looks so gorgeous without makeup on. I like more of a natural. I don't think many makeup artists understand how to use makeup and make it look like you're not wearing it. You could put a full foundation, concealer, concealer, blush, bronzer, and look like the most glorious part of yourself.

[Dax Shepard]

You see this huge line of demarcation.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And do strong eyes and sparkle and do all that, but still there's a glow and a naturalness.

[Monica Padman]

You can tell when somebody really knows what they're doing and when they don't. If you had your makeup done a lot, you can tell, oh, this looks cookie cutter versus this looks like me.

[Bobbi Brown]

But also it's my beauty aesthetic. And there's a lot of celebrities and makeup artists that have a different aesthetic of what it should, should be. It's just my aesthetic, but it's been.

[Monica Padman]

Working for a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, I have many times been standing somewhere and thought, I can't believe being funny brought me here. Being funny got me kicked out of class and in the principal's office nonstop. And then I'll be standing somewhere spectacular. And I'm like, I can't believe this thing brought me to this place.

[Bobbi Brown]

Do you still feel like that sometimes? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, it's insane. We've interviewed Bill Gates a lot. He happens to love us. He took us to India for a week, and we're sitting on his plane, flying in India, and I'm like, I'm not in venture capital. I'm not a tech person. I'm a. And somehow that brought me to this airplane in India.

[Bobbi Brown]

You're not known as a comedian initially. Okay. But that's not how people know you.

[Dax Shepard]

Not now, since this show.

[Bobbi Brown]

Now you've got. Well, yeah. And you're an actor.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know, an actor. And now you're.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, God knows what it is.

[Bobbi Brown]

God knows. But it's working, whatever it is. I was just on his daughter's podcast.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Phoebe.

[Bobbi Brown]

She's fantastic. I use this word, normal, real. It's rare, but I appreciate all the moments.

[Dax Shepard]

But the White House doing makeup took you to the White House?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. I was in the motorcycle. Some guy turns to me, says, who are you? And I said, well, I'm a makeup artist. And I said, who are you? He said, I'm Leon Panetta. I'm like, oh, okay. The Secretary of Defense. And I'm like, who are you? He's like, secretary of Agriculture. I'm like, can you fix our crops?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Yeah. You're like, how am I here? Right?

[Dax Shepard]

There was a moment where we were at this table in India, and it was. It was the Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Defense, Bill Gates, and everyone in name plaque. And I said, podcasters. And I was just like, this feels so stupid.

[Monica Padman]

And they were, like, brainstorming on how to, like, fix the world. And we're just sitting there, like, totally quiet.

[Bobbi Brown]

Did you not say anything?

[Monica Padman]

No, we couldn't.

[Dax Shepard]

We had nothing to add to do.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And at one point, they were, like, going around introducing themselves, like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen? When they got. But we got skipped. Oh, my God.

[Bobbi Brown]

I was on the US Trade Commission. I had to do that, too. And it was, like, scary.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I just looked up and I looked for Papa Sam. Papa. Do you believe. Believe that I'm sitting here doing this?

[Monica Padman]

Right. I know. That's so special.

[Bobbi Brown]

No matter what, I don't take it lightly. Being a makeup artist has gotten me some interesting. I just had something at Paul McCartney's house. Cause we saw a movie. My husband and I walked out, and we looked at each other. We're like, love this life.

[Dax Shepard]

Doing makeup brought me to this place.

[Bobbi Brown]

Then guess what I did. I went home and I did the laundry, and I put away the dishes, and I cleaned up, and I do what I normally do.

[Monica Padman]

Went back to your regular.

[Bobbi Brown]

I went back to my old self.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Balancing both. Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now here's the tough part. So I'm watching this interview with you, and it is taking place in one of your brick and mortar stores in presumably New York. And you're being interviewed, but you are so distracted with the fact that you're noticing on the wall, there's this photo that's been mounted to the wall, and it's enormous. And you notice there's a tiny scratch in the photo on the neck. You're like, huh? Okay, Aaron. Aaron. You're yelling, aaron, Aaron. I want to go. We're on film. So Aaron will know what the people talking, talking, talking. He's like, this sign should be bigger. Well, Aaron, so you have to be a perfectionist.

[Bobbi Brown]

I am.

[Dax Shepard]

To build something in the way you did.

[Bobbi Brown]

But I'm also a micro. Not a micromanager. I'm a multitasker. So I knew that once I walked off that set, I would not remember to tell Aaron, it's now or never. It's now or never.

[Dax Shepard]

I get that. But you are a perfectionist. I believe you have to be. But I would imagine it's hard to work for a perfectionist, because I would imagine you might feel like no matter what I do, she'll find something wrong.

[Bobbi Brown]

But by the way, the people that work really well with me, like Aaron, who literally went to high school with my youngest son, I call her my baby creative director, because I think she's finally 27, is phenomenal. And I can say, erin, yuck. What happened to that? And she'd tell me, or Aaron, she goes, yeah, I know they wanted that. But I'm like, I don't want that. Could you make it go away? Could you make it go away? Aaron, that wrinkle under my left armpit, can you get rid of it? She's my guy. Like, you could say anything to each other. You have each other's back.

[Monica Padman]

I'm a huge perfectionist as well. And I edit the show. And I think the same thing. Cause I'm giving notes and like. Like, they definitely hate me because I'm giving these half second notes like, that needs to come out because to me, it's everything. It makes a huge difference.

[Dax Shepard]

I agree with it. I'm just saying how does one manage the tension of having to work that way and knowing that? I'll give you an example. Bill Gates, he said, there were many years where I came in and I leveled everyone and told them how to be. And I ultimately had to step back and go, like, what is the net win? Do I leave that meeting? And everyone feels defeated and they no longer feel passionate about working. So learning to curb, even if the end goal is I want this thing to be great, recognizing that might not be the road to get to greatness.

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, first of all, having the right people on the team. I've got my retail team, my creative team, my marketing team, my PR team, my PD team, the product development, which is the most important. They know me and I'm like, guys. And they're like, you're right. And I'm like, thank you guys so much for working on this. I always make sure I thank them. And by the way, they also know that there's times where I am so insanely busy that I don't have a second for anything or I haven't slept. And they're like, I know you only have a second second. Just please. And they've got to be passionate and I have to be passionate about them.

[Monica Padman]

Does the perfectionism bleed into your personal life? Because I have found this to be a real problem. And I've been like, talking to my therapist about this a lot lately because I've had multiple complaints, some from Dax, some from other people that are like, I don't want to be picked at in life. Here is a different thing.

[Dax Shepard]

This conversation is like, I want you to do exactly what we do on the show and I want you to kill me. And then when we're having dinner on vacation, that's what I.

[Monica Padman]

He doesn't want me to edit me in real life. Yes. And other people have said this to me too. It's not just him. I don't want to be the type of person that sees everything that's wrong or is critical. But it is what I do here, and it's really hard to shut it off in life.

[Bobbi Brown]

The good thing is that we're always evolving and the. The best people are the ones that wanna be better versions of themselves. I've had to let go of a lot of things and I've had to learn how to tell people I don't like things in a Very different way than I used to. And I've evolved. I've worked really hard, especially with my son and my daughter in law. Cause I wanna see the grandkids number one. But also we all want the same thing. But sometimes how you get there is tough.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard.

[Bobbi Brown]

It is. It's really hard. And relationships are hard. So many times Steven will say to me, I don't work for you. Right. Don't come and bounce orders. Because I'm so used to saying, do this, do this. I need this. I need this.

[Dax Shepard]

I've said that to my wife.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard to shut up.

[Bobbi Brown]

No, it is hard. And also I'm anxious. I want things done. And I'm always worried I'm gonna forget something. I take on everything. Cause I care about everything.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I care about my house. Like I walk in my house and I re merchandise things. I move books around or I make sure the bar looks good. Yes, I do. It's my thing.

[Monica Padman]

I do that too. You just have to make everything look perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

You'd feel so comfortable in Monica's apart.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's really nice.

[Bobbi Brown]

Is it nice? Yeah, Everything.

[Dax Shepard]

And there's a lot of re merchandising.

[Monica Padman]

Anytime I feel a little bit out of control, I will remerchandise. I just look around, I'm like, okay, how can I reposition this to adjust my internal feelings?

[Bobbi Brown]

You're gonna have to send me your cell phone. Because I find these things on Instagram that leads me to someone's organization, wish list. And all of a sudden I'm buying organizers individual little baggies for Cord. Yeah, I'm like a nutcase. Because it does make me feel calm to open a drawer. Cause there's chaos on the news. There's mostly.

[Dax Shepard]

There's chaos up here.

[Bobbi Brown]

There is chaos up there.

[Dax Shepard]

The mind's not a friendly place.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right. But I'm never gonna change. I'm not going to meditate. Looking in the eye. I'm not going to meditate.

[Monica Padman]

Don't make it.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm not going to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you just have to find what works for you.

[Bobbi Brown]

I guess you do. And not everything works well.

[Dax Shepard]

Bobby, I adore you.

[Monica Padman]

Aw.

[Dax Shepard]

I had so much fun sitting next to you. You really sparked the night up. There was a lot of different people there.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was very eclectic.

[Dax Shepard]

It was all right. Well, I hope I sit next to you again someday.

[Bobbi Brown]

I hope so too. And I hope it's not one of those things that I hope. I hope it's just at dinner one night.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I love Your book still Bobby. Please check it out. I hope you'll come back and we'll get to talk to you again.

[Bobbi Brown]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

So fun.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was a pleasure.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

[Monica Padman]

Stay tuned for the Fact check. It's where the party's at.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello?

[Bobbi Brown]

Hello?

[Dax Shepard]

Hello? Oh, we haven't talked. That's how Bob Durst talked, remember? We haven't talked like him in a while. Hello? Hi, Ann, it's Bob. I'm in prison. How much is the house worth in Long Island? Oh, wow. 100 million.

[Monica Padman]

Even he found love again.

[Dax Shepard]

He was irresistible. He had lots of lovers you love? I wanted to be one of his lovers, date him. He passed, right?

[Monica Padman]

I think he passed.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll never get to nurture him back to sanity.

[Monica Padman]

You won't.

[Dax Shepard]

How you doing? Really great. Blue color. Really great sweatshirt.

[Bobbi Brown]

Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. It's a new sweater.

[Dax Shepard]

I feel like I would look good in that for the eye reason.

[Monica Padman]

You would. It would make your eyes pop. I also bought it in purple today because I liked it so much. Putting it on, I was like, I want another color.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, sure.

[Monica Padman]

I bought it in purple too.

[Dax Shepard]

Did we discuss the fact that many, many people collected the Got Milk ads?

[Monica Padman]

See, I knew it.

[Dax Shepard]

So I guess it's a double edged sword. It's good news and bad news because I was like, wow, I found the criteria for who to hire. Like, I could almost start my own hiring service. And I just asked the applicants one question on guarantee and a phenomenal coworker. So in some sense I'm like, well, maybe I'm not being discerning enough because it turns out a lot of people. But also good news. Maybe there's a lot of great folks out there to work with.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe you're right because it's hard to collect them. Like, you really have to be on the lookout. You have to be on the prowl. Keep your eyes wide open.

[Dax Shepard]

I have such a vague memory. These were like. They'd have a celebrity in a. Like a normal magazine. And they'd be standing, they'd hold a glass of milk. Am I thinking of the right thing?

[Monica Padman]

They would have a milk mustache, a milk stash. And sometimes they'd be holding it, but not always. And in different scenarios, like, there's one of Jennifer Love Hewitt. She's in a kitchen, and I think she's wearing like a flannel shirt, I think. And the kitchen's messy.

[Dax Shepard]

Ah, but she's got milk.

[Monica Padman]

She's got milk. And. Well, does she. Because it's question Question mark. Got milk?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

So it was just really.

[Dax Shepard]

It was a really celebrity driven campaign. Is that what made it so collectible?

[Monica Padman]

There she is.

[Dax Shepard]

Hey.

[Monica Padman]

I really nailed it, didn't I?

[Dax Shepard]

You fucking. Hey. You did. Yeah. And it's a. The kitchen's a mess.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's a mess because she's made.

[Dax Shepard]

Eggs and pancakes, but somehow she made perfect pancakes. But she has no regard for anything else. Like the way she mixed the. The batter. It's all over the side. Yet she did pour poor. Perfectly.

[Monica Padman]

Do you have an affinity for her because of Party of Five?

[Dax Shepard]

I did like ground Party of Five, but I was a little older.

[Monica Padman]

Got it.

[Dax Shepard]

And Nev was on the show.

[Monica Padman]

I know both are great. I loved her, though.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, she started as kind of a kid.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, she was a kid.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I did. And in my defense, I was. I was 18 when I was saying this. I did think, oh, she is becoming hot. Like, it is weird when these kids on shows become hot.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Does that happen with the boys? Like Jennifer Tal Thomas, Jonathan Taylor, Tamis. Tamo Shanters.

[Monica Padman]

Let's go with classic jtt.

[Dax Shepard]

Jtt. Do you know I used him in Empire at Amy's birthday?

[Monica Padman]

You did? Did they get. Did you get caught?

[Dax Shepard]

It took forever. I was one of the last people. That's a good one, right from Mislead, because I think most people would think. I don't. Wouldn't even know that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's right there.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he had one.

[Monica Padman]

Of course he had had one. I think I had.

[Dax Shepard]

This is mostly all youth. No, no, there's some oldies in there.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, oldies with goodies.

[Dax Shepard]

Any baddies? These are all goodies.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, there's baddies.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, there are.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Those are the hard ones to find.

[Dax Shepard]

Speaking of which, but I have started the Charlie Sheen Netflix doc.

[Monica Padman]

How is it?

[Dax Shepard]

Awesome.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, great.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so good.

[Monica Padman]

This is a Easter egg.

[Dax Shepard]

This is. It's so good.

[Monica Padman]

I'm excited.

[Dax Shepard]

And do you know what? I didn't know. I mean, I knew I was young enough to have been a, like a audience goer when he broke out with, like, Platoon and Wall Street. So I remember, like, the meteoric rise. But it's not like you knew a ton about him back then. There was no way to. There wasn't social media, blah, blah.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I had no idea. He and Nick Cage were, like, inseparable best friends.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow. Did they have a falling out?

[Dax Shepard]

I doubt it. The way he's chatting about. He clearly loves him to death still.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

But that Famous Letterman story that Nick Cage tells. Where they were. He was on a flight to San Francisco and he got a hold of the intercom system and he said, this is your pilot speaking. I'm feeling unwell and I'm losing control of the aircraft.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he was with Charlie.

[Dax Shepard]

The two of them were going on that trip. And Charlie had an ounce of cocaine taped to his ankle. And when they got off the plane, the police were there.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. How do you get the. Oh, security was different then.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you could still go through the cocaine around your ankle as long as they didn't pet you down. It wouldn't set off a detector or anything.

[Monica Padman]

Not now, though.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I flew with cocaine post 9 11.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm sorry, what? I just told this story the other day. I'm sorry, but we made it. Um, Yeah, I had brought. So, you know, I had gone out and I. I mean, I was. During Idiocracy. I had done a table read. I knew I was gonna get sober for the movie, but I had like a week before the table read and the filming starting. So it's like I went to the table read.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Guess What?

[Dax Shepard]

What?

[Monica Padman]

It's 9 11.

[Dax Shepard]

I know.

[Monica Padman]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Dax Shepard]

That's crazy.

[Monica Padman]

Don't say you didn't know that.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't know it was 911 because.

[Monica Padman]

I journaled know you were doing.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't know it was such a ding, ding, ding.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great. Okay, so as far as Idiocracy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I went to like down there for a table read and a fitting and it went well. Like, I did good in the table. I was feeling great.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, gosh.

[Bobbi Brown]

So you.

[Dax Shepard]

I. I went out yourself. I went out and on 6th street, and before you know it, I've got coke and I meet someone and you know, and have a whole night. And then now it's. Now it's morning time and it's time to go to the airport.

[Monica Padman]

Dudied in your bed.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't do any duty. No, I was. I was very clean, but I had to then go get on an airplane and I hadn't slept. So, like, I gotta. I'm gonna. I gotta bring this through security with me because I'm gonna crash. Like, I'm gonna have the most miserable flight of my life. I'm starting to come down. What? I don't bore you with the addict's dilemma, but suffice to say, I took it through security and I went to the bar and I started getting kind of paranoid while I was at the Bar having a Jack and Diet. Because obvious reasons. And I'm like, I'm about to start a movie. What if I got a recipe? You know, this could derail everything. I just did so good yesterday. No, I'm Rooney.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

So my solution was I went to the B. I went to the handicap stall and there was a huge toilet paper dispenser with, like, the double rolls. And I put my hand way up there and there was like a little shelf up in there. So I put my bag. I did a bunch. And then I put my bag of Coke up in this dispenser. And then I went back to the bar and had like another Jack and Diet. And after that one, I'm like, oh, I'd like a bump. So I go back to the handicap bathroom and Monica, I put my hand. I'm on, like, I'm down in the thing and I'm fishing around inside this toilet paper dispenser and I'm like, oh, fuck, it's not here. And then I like, look, and it's not fallen anywhere. And in my brain, which has now been up for, you know, day and a half, two days, prints, it's more. I go, oh, fuck. Someone found it. Like, they pulled the toilet paper. They found it. They alerted the authorities. The authorities have been waiting to see who's gonna go into the handicap. So I sat in this handicap stall, like, 1,000% convinced that there were cops in the. In the bathroom waiting for me. And I was just like, what do we do? What's our game plan? We gotta. Well, we don't have any. Honest. But they know because they know. And eventually I was like, I gotta face the music. And then I walk. There's nobody. There's nobody there who knows where that went. Somebody presumably got a free bag.

[Monica Padman]

But also so wild that somebody would think to. Maybe it was. It was probably someone cleaning the bathroom who was replacing the toilet paper and found it. I hope. I mean, I hope.

[Dax Shepard]

Or they, like, just, you know, sometimes you give those things a good yank. Or maybe they rattled it enough that it fell out. And then maybe the other guy was a playboy and he was like, hey, look at this. Fell from the.

[Monica Padman]

Things have to be coming together for that. Because if I yanked on a toilet paper paper and Coke fell down.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You'd scream, yeah, yeah. And you'd be like, snakes. But in the. In your mind at that time, because I already know I'm in trial. I know I'm a bad boy. I should not be doing this. I should Be being sober for this movie. I'm also supposed to be gaining a lot of weight and I haven't now eaten in 36 hours. But that's a side note. But the notion that if a bag of coke is found that they will now initiate a sting operation. That would never. I mean, that would never happen.

[Monica Padman]

Don't say never. Never say never. I would assume. Yeah, they would fingerpr this and they.

[Dax Shepard]

Would see all I know, grubby little fingerprints.

[Monica Padman]

Who came through the airport around what time? Who's they? I felt feel like they could find you.

[Dax Shepard]

I even think I was like, oh, my God, I got a. You know I'm using a key. I don't know if you know that. Like, I'm dipping my key in the bag and doing key bumps. That's how I'm getting it in my body. Well, I got to get it out of this bag and into my nasal passage.

[Monica Padman]

I can't just use your finger.

[Dax Shepard]

Finger. Like stick my finger and then what? Put my finger on my nose.

[Monica Padman]

That's weirder than putting it on.

[Dax Shepard]

You can make a little pile and then you can.

[Monica Padman]

I can't believe you just acted like what I was saying was crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, if you ever tried to do coke with your finger, you'd find out.

[Monica Padman]

That people had long nails.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's why weirdos have long coke nails. But I didn't have a coke now because I was a responsible person.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, you were. So.

[Dax Shepard]

But then I was like, oh, I gotta get all the coke off my key. Like, my key probably would.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Would. Would light up like a Christmas tree. If they put a. Whatever magic coke wand in my mind they had.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So then I was like sucking on the key to get every remnant off. No, no.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Addicts are so.

[Dax Shepard]

We do a lot of weird. We end up doing a lot of weird stuff. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like now the idea of putting a key in your mouth, doesn't that gross you out?

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely.

[Monica Padman]

Like the amount of germ germs. That's like one of the worst things you can put in your mouth.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And it just is metal.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Disgusting. But I had to get rid of the evidence.

[Monica Padman]

Did you think about swallowing the key?

[Dax Shepard]

About keystering the key.

[Bobbi Brown]

Whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

Key. Stirring the key.

[Monica Padman]

Stirring.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyways, Got Milk ads? A lot of people collected them.

[Monica Padman]

I think a lot of the people who've collected Got Milk keys have never found themselves in the situation you have. They're busy. They're at the newsstand.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Buying up all the magazines so that on the flight they can look Each one very carefully, page by page, See, if you found.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you making your mom take you to newsstands to further your collection? It sounds like something you. A task you would put on her plate.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. She wouldn't have done. She. No, no. She doesn't have time for that.

[Dax Shepard]

You were like, we got to go camp out for this book. We. You did a lot of these little projects. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Then I was like, I would, like, go with friends. I was old enough.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

So, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

If I was. If we were at the airport or at the grocery store. Yes. I probably would have asked.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Can we buy these six magazines?

[Monica Padman]

Please buy all of these. And then I think I had some subscriptions. Like, I had probably, like, teen.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you earn money as a kid? Like, did you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I had allowance.

[Dax Shepard]

You had an allowance. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So you had a little around town, Casey.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I mean, I had so many ads.

[Dax Shepard]

So many. You did?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I had so many. They were great. The best ones were the casts. They would do, like, a full cast.

[Dax Shepard]

Did Friends ever got milk?

[Monica Padman]

Well, Jenn Ann, I think, had one.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe her and Courtney and Lisa, like, there was, like, a few. Yeah, I have it. I have it.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair experts, if you dare. When they pitched the idea originally, do you think people were like, so we're gonna coat the top of their lip. They're gonna paint it with white cream.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think they probably painted it.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyone?

[Monica Padman]

Like, this is gross.

[Dax Shepard]

This might look sexual.

[Monica Padman]

There it is.

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, yes, I know. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That looks like they just left an orgy. Like, that was my fear.

[Monica Padman]

Don't you dare D. Dirty this up. You dirty.

[Dax Shepard]

My God. Everyone is so young.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Yeah. Put up a picture of Jennifer. Lisa kudrow.

[Dax Shepard]

She looks 19.

[Monica Padman]

They were young. They were young back then.

[Dax Shepard]

Remember, Lisa said she felt like the old lady.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Look how cute she is.

[Dax Shepard]

She's so young and cute.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, beautiful girls. Speaking of semen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I'm not gonna out this brand. I've been trying some new. New makeup foundations.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I'm loving all of them. Loving all the colors.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And the textures and stuff. But I'm playing with a lot of them, so I don't want people to try to figure out which one this is. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Right.

[Monica Padman]

Today I put makeup.

[Dax Shepard]

This is in your lab.

[Monica Padman]

I put makeup on. I walked outside, and I was like, it smells funny out here. Oh. And I was like, oh, maybe it's like Bradford pear season. You know, classically, the Bradford pear smells.

[Dax Shepard]

Like a Rotting corpse.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, semen slash period slash death. So I was like, God, are we there? Like stinky and.

[Dax Shepard]

What a combo of words next to each other. Like if there was a perfume called Semen Period. I mean, wow.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder if there was ever a punk band named Semen Period or.

[Monica Padman]

Well, guar. Could get on it. It seems like something they would like.

[Dax Shepard]

If you are a horned pig faced goblin.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. Yeah. It's probably like one of the gifts God gave humans that, you know, the person who has a period also doesn't release semen in case. So those never really have to mix.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

Although they could mix it. A sexual experience.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, ideally.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Now I'm walking to the car and I'm like, yeah. And then I have this realization.

[Dax Shepard]

Your foundation.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Do you smell it?

[Dax Shepard]

God, no. No, no.

[Monica Padman]

You can't smell it from there.

[Dax Shepard]

20Ft away. Your face.

[Monica Padman]

I.

[Dax Shepard]

You still smell it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That would be a bummer for me if I had a smell on my face I couldn't.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Get rid of.

[Monica Padman]

And I. I like this foundation. Foundation. There's many that have sunscreens built in.

[Dax Shepard]

Huh.

[Monica Padman]

This is one of those.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I think it might be part of the ish.

[Dax Shepard]

The sunscreen.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Part of what's adding to the smell.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Isn't sunscreen odorless? No, no. I mean, they put that yummy coconut flavor in like Coppertone or.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They add that fun ones that smells like vacation.

[Monica Padman]

Even regular, like spf. Generally sunscreen has a smell. You know, it. It doesn't smell like semen, I'll say that. But maybe the mix of. Of ingredients has caused a semen like smell.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's unfortunate.

[Dax Shepard]

Bummer that semen smells away.

[Monica Padman]

It's a bummer that bodies smell the way they do. They. We just like. It's gross. We have all these smells.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. I knew there was something we're supposed to be talking about, and I just remembered.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

So you and I were in a competition. Competition this week.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we were.

[Dax Shepard]

We went on Hot Ones versus.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Me and you did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And we ate five chicken wings.

[Monica Padman]

Hot Ones Versus is a spin off of Hot Ones. It's more of a competition show. So it's me versus you.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. And on Hot Ones, if people don't haven't watched that, you get interviewed by Sean Evans. He asks you questions as you're eating hot wings and they're getting progressively hotter.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And the last one is generally brutal.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It takes people out. Even number seven Starts taking people out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this show is, it's only number 10. Every wing has the hottest of the hot.

[Monica Padman]

It was, it's smart. It is. Well, look, I was so like really truly nervous to do this show. And you notoriously went on original hot ones. You did great on Hot ones. So much so that you asked for another of the last wing. You threw a whole bunch, bunch of hots.

[Dax Shepard]

They put me in the ring of fire. I don't know if that's what it's called. If it's not, they should call it that. But it was like kind of a champion circle of people who took the heat the best.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you, you did great.

[Dax Shepard]

It's one of my identity markers.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. And I knew this. And so I was also like, well.

[Dax Shepard]

Like it's like you and I playing one on one basketball. It's like, why is this the verse?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I will spoil a little bit that you ate first.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

And yeah, you, it was like, it was really hot for you.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I started salvating quite a bit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I, I started to really panic.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, when you saw that it was affecting me.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Cuz you apparently can eat two of the last one and you are struggling. So then I was really starting to panic. Anyway, it was really fun. You guys will have to tune in.

[Dax Shepard]

It was super fun. And you thought you were going to fall over a lot. It was really funny.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't feel steady.

[Dax Shepard]

No. I definitely got concerned and I didn't vocalize it because I thought, well, that'll only compound it. But I really started, started thinking after you had a good amount of fire in you and you were feeling like you were going to fall over, I was like, it's a panic attack on the table.

[Monica Padman]

Right? It's always on it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just only because of the soul cycle stuff. I know, right?

[Monica Padman]

And you weren't worried about a seizure?

[Dax Shepard]

Not at all. Okay, I, I don't think that, I don't think that would trigger a seizure for what right or wrong I did. I just don't think that. Yeah, but once you're getting wobbly and I started thinking like, oh man, like if she has a panic attack, how.

[Monica Padman]

Do I, what would you do?

[Dax Shepard]

How I do? Do I help her?

[Monica Padman]

Great question.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's probably not saying you're imagining this. You know, it's not going to be like no one's ever died from this. You can't die that no one's ever been hurt. You know, I, I. And then I'm like, well, it's probably not going to be, like. It's probably got to be more like acknowledging. Yeah. You are getting. I don't know. I don't know how you get someone out of a panic attack.

[Monica Padman]

I mean.

[Dax Shepard]

Put my wall in your mouth.

[Monica Padman]

This hearkens back to when I was having a panic attack attack during shrooms.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Huh. Would you call that a panic attack?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. We did. We did. All right.

[Monica Padman]

Truest sense, like, I was like, I can't breathe.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

More. That was a kind of a different panic attack. Normally, my panic attacks, like, I feel like I'm going to pass. I start, like, kind of disassociating and. But this was. I couldn't breathe, which is sort of a common panic attack.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And you said. I think you said no one's ever stopped breathing from mushrooms. Shrooms.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Which did work. Or. I think. I mean, I eventually was able to breathe there.

[Dax Shepard]

I think there were a bunch of baby steps. That was one of them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So that, I guess, is a good tactic.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Stick with it. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

On me, anyway, so.

[Dax Shepard]

But what's funny is it just so happened to fall on the same day I was taking Nate, Eric, and Charlie to the Dodgers game.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. That night.

[Dax Shepard]

And we go primarily because my agency has great seats in what is called the Dugout Club.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I am not gonna act like I am into baseball. Tattoo. I don't know a thing about it. I barely. You know, I like. It's a great place to go. Have a great chat with the boys and scream a bit. It's so fun. But I don't know who's leading or if the team's good. I don't know anything.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I go. Because there is an all you can eat bar in the Dugout Club, and it is. Is premium. They had a pot roast. Monica. I love a pot roast. I had it at Dollywood and then I just had it here. I want more pot roast in my life.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. My mom loves to make a pot roast.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. She tell her to make me one the next time she's visiting.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. They had a beautiful hot honey fried chicken. So the whole game plan with the boys and it's all talked about way before. It's like, hey, heads up, everybody. Don't eat today day.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And so really, I had. I had in my mind, I hadn't eaten. I had a oatmeal in the morning.

[Monica Padman]

At like 7am okay, so you ditched the plan already. You ate.

[Dax Shepard]

I ate because we had to eat those Wings. But it wasn't like I was like, I'm not going to eat lunch. I'm not going. Whatever I want to, I want. I'm going to eat 7,000 calories in about 45 minutes once we get to this thing. And so. And also, I didn't want to betray the pack. So we arrived and I said to everyone, like, what was it? Charlie's like, I've only had a protein shake today. We're like, good job. And then, you know, everyone's going their thing. And I'm like, I just had oatmeal. I don't know why. Why I, like, forgot.

[Monica Padman]

Well, okay, I know why you forgot. You don't, you don't feel like you're eating.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it wasn't a meal. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just, I. I forgot I had had that.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Then we go to the thing, and that's really fun. And we go hard and I eat so much, I even have a Sunday. Oh, this was a total hack. If anyone's ever goes to the Dugout Club, they had fried plantains. Oh, but they're on the hot bar. They're on the other side of the thing. And then on the far end of the place, there's a soft serve machine and, like, some toppings.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I made my soft serve. I was like, oh, fried plantains on there. That's like a banana split of fried. Pop those in there. It was heaven. We all, we all ate so much. We had so much fun. I made a good joke that I thought of your brother during.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cuz.

[Dax Shepard]

Your brother was kooky Jeps or no Mookie Betts. Well, that's the actual guy. Juki bets Jet Juky Betts. He had a. He had her Hazard has cat company in reference.

[Monica Padman]

That's actually just Instagram.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Mookie Betts is on the Dodgers and all these guys have the best asses. And we're directly behind home where they warm up.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, did you make fart noises?

[Dax Shepard]

No, but I did. I did heckle them.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, great.

[Dax Shepard]

It was Mookie Betts and he was like eight feet away. And I had, again, I had a gaggle of like 60 year old women in front of me, which was great. And then he's up there kind of just warming up, and he's so close, close. And I go, mookie Bets. More like Mookie Buns.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow. Yeah, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

The ladies loved it. It's a great compliment to him.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

I think he. It put a spring on his Step. He had a dynamite night.

[Monica Padman]

Did he?

[Dax Shepard]

He knocked some homies.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. But maybe he was so insecure. Maybe he has an insecurity about his big butt.

[Dax Shepard]

No way. When you got those juicy juky beds. Juicy. Juicy juki bets.

[Monica Padman]

But maybe he was like, all anyone thinks about is my butt, and no one recognizes me for the athlete that I am.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, that's. That's a sentence. That makes sense. There's no way anyone hates having a great ass. I just. Maybe because I, I, I was denied a great ass.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. So you might not know.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. But I'm pretty sure everyone would like to know they have a great ass.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great.

[Dax Shepard]

So that was a blast. Yelling, Mookie Buns. All this stuff. It was. It's so fun. Go home. Next morning, I'm like, I want to check in with the guys. Because, again, we all ate probably 10,000 calories. And so I'm like, but you felt fine. No, I. Midway through, I kept thinking, am I going to have Hanus?

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

But I was confused because I had literally forgot we had eaten all these insanely hot wings.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So they were in my intestines making their way through. Yes. And you can feel the heat the whole time. And it felt like squirrels fighting. And I thought, oh, that's Hanus coming. So I was totally off base. And I kept telling the guys I might have haunts.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But anyways, the next morning, I check in with the guys. I'm like, anyone have Hannes? It took me two trips, but I. I got there. And then immediately Nate's like, it was. I knew it was the pot roast. I didn't touch that pot roast. And I feel great. Blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden, I realized, oh. And then I write, oh, yeah, I also had five hot wings at maximum temperature.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, hot.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was, like, pretty relevant detail to leave out. I was. I was, like, fishing to see if everyone got Hanus from this experience.

[Monica Padman]

You thought, like, maybe it was food poisoning or just.

[Dax Shepard]

I would like to know if everyone else had hanas. But it was the wings, so it.

[Monica Padman]

Was definitely the wings. Also, food poisoning is lacking. Last on the list.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I didn't think I had food poisoning because, like, this may be a bad combination. Like dairy, the plantains, the amount you ate. The amount.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe the amount is just enough to create a tornado.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes. They just don't mix well.

[Monica Padman]

I also. I thought I was gonna have harness, but I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

You did not.

[Monica Padman]

Which was surprising.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Well, no, I'm sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

But I Did have an interesting movement.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. This is basically that long lead was to find out what happened for you the next morning.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well, no, that night.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that night.

[Monica Padman]

I have a fast acting system.

[Dax Shepard]

Fast acting. Snacking.

[Monica Padman]

In fact, I was a little nervous during eating.

[Dax Shepard]

You even said you might Tonka.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I could Tonka there or on the way home. I don't know. But I. I wasn't. And I too kind of forgot. But when I first got home, I was like, oh, I'm definitely gonna poop.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And. But then I didn't. And I think that was, as you said, the. The squirrels.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, the squirrels fighting.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they were fighting.

[Dax Shepard]

The way they run around the branches.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah. But they didn't want to come out. They don't want to come down the tree. They want to play.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they love playing.

[Monica Padman]

So then I forgot I had wine with a friend. I was out and about. And then. Yeah. Then that night I was like, oh, God, I feel so full. But why do I feel so full? I barely. I didn't eat today.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, great. You forgot.

[Monica Padman]

I also kind of forgot. But then I was like, oh, God. Yeah, it's the wings.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the fiery wings.

[Monica Padman]

And then I had an interesting movement. It was.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you feel heat? Did you feel heat when it passed through?

[Monica Padman]

That's a good. I didn't feel heat, but I felt pain.

[Dax Shepard]

Pain? Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it felt painful. It felt as if it was. Was hauntess. But then when I looked, it wasn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, Right.

[Monica Padman]

Which was interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

I had it. I had pain, but I didn't have burning, which I guess is a blessing because I have had burning once. And that's. That was that Carolina reaper chocolate.

[Monica Padman]

I don't want that.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't do it. No. You thought you were gonna fall over on those wings.

[Monica Padman]

It's funny, though, because last night the girls, we went to a incredible Thai restaurant. So good. And one of the dishes we got was this papaya salad. It was incredible. It was spicy. And one of the girls was, like, eating, and she was like, oh, my God. Like, it was like so, so spicy for her.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I thought, how is. How are people doing? Hot ones, like, a lot of people I think are like our friend Laura, who could, like, barely eat this papaya salad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

How? Like, on the scale, compared to what we had to eat, it was nothing.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, Right. Yeah. She would be in big, big trouble.

[Monica Padman]

You'd be dead. Has anyone died on it?

[Dax Shepard]

People, like, get the burps and they can't answer the question. And then I I'm now I'm doing. But that's the appeal of the show is people lose their shit.

[Monica Padman]

You know what was weird? You didn't drink any milk.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't? No.

[Monica Padman]

I thought that was so weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I just was. Imagine putting dairy on top of that. It just felt like not the combo I wanted.

[Monica Padman]

It really helped.

[Dax Shepard]

It did, Yeah. I mean, you also brought. You brought a big jar of honey with you. And then when we got in the truck, you had like a humongous scoop of honey.

[Monica Padman]

I brought a bottle of honey and a spoon in a. In a Ziploc bag because I was told that honey helps. So the last one you eat, you add all this extra hot sauce. Sauce too. So that one is nuclear. It is nuclear. Like I. My lips were burning for five hours.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I touched my penis and testicles and I had washed my hands before I peed, so I thought it was off my fingers. And I had quite a bit of discomfort on my penis. Penis. And everywhere I touched south of my belt.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

For a while.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Then I went the sauna later before the game.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And it reignited all the pain.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Everything caught back on fire.

[Monica Padman]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

And then somehow I forgot I had done that. A half hour later I was at.

[Monica Padman]

The game with our brains. So anyway, check that out in December.

[Dax Shepard]

Next year, whenever it comes out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's coming out a long time, but it was really fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I like that. It was fun. It was a nice switch up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it was.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Want to do some facts?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, let's do some facts.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Facts for Bobby Brown.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Bobby Brown. I like him. Spunky.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, she's so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Is spunky still a positive? We. I. I hope so. So I like it.

[Monica Padman]

I think so. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I like if someone calls me spunky. Do you like to be called Spunk? Spunky.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm.

[Dax Shepard]

Spunky is pluck the other. It's like the more old fashioned English is a. She's got a lot of pluck.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That one sounds worse.

[Dax Shepard]

It does.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You'd rather be known for being spunky.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Punky Brewster.

[Dax Shepard]

Spunky Brewster.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, Bobby. So Bobby is a hero and a legend.

[Dax Shepard]

She's a beast.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. She brought up or. Well, the subject of Data and Data came up again. Both are correct. Both are acceptable. Data is generally preferred in British English while both Data and Data are used in American English.

[Dax Shepard]

I also think the robot on Star Trek was named Data.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

For whatever that's worth.

[Monica Padman]

It says data is more common in technical Contexts.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really? What I said.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, so what? I would have thought too. So.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, there we go. Take your pick.

[Monica Padman]

Take your pick.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like, people. People really hate this word, but it's in the dictionary.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, moist.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no, no. It's like, oh, irregardless. Oh, people hate irregardless. And when I wr it, they'll go, that's not a word. And I'm like. And then I. It's in the dictionary.

[Monica Padman]

Which dictionary?

[Dax Shepard]

All dictionaries.

[Bobbi Brown]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Is it in, like, a new dictionary? Like, they added it for people like you?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know, but it is. If it's in the dictionary, I can play it in Scrabble. I can use it. My.

[Monica Padman]

But isn't like, dope or whatever that, like, Simpsons word in the dictionary, is it Do.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. Know. But irregardless. Solid word. It's there for good.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, well, you have the right to use whatever word you want.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I will not be using irregardless. I'm in the camp. That. That is a double neg. It's not good.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a big trigger for people. Yeah, big, big trigger.

[Monica Padman]

It's not like. What's worse than that for me is. What's worse. There's one that's. That's worse.

[Dax Shepard]

That's just blatantly misused.

[Monica Padman]

Well, no, there's one that people add a silo. They add a letter to the way they're saying it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Because it's spelled that way, but it's supposed to be pronounced. It's, like, very. Why? It's not coming to me. It'll come to me.

[Dax Shepard]

People get mad about the thawed. Thawed, Thawed and dethawed.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I always say defrost, not defawed.

[Monica Padman]

I've never said dethawed, but I can.

[Dax Shepard]

See where people would object. It's a double negative.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but this is, like, all downhill from here. It's similar.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not on the. I'm not a word police. You know, your other.

[Monica Padman]

You're other kinds of police.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, I am. I am. I. Thank God I don't also have. I don't know if I could even be with me. Irregardless. It's in there. What were we talking about before Irregardless?

[Monica Padman]

Data and data.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, data and data.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, seven. So she sold Bobby. I'm sorry, she. Yeah. Sold Bobby Brown to. In 1995 for 75 million. That is 159 million today.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I said 250. Yeah, I was Being a little optimistic. Yeah. These people who can build multiple billion dollar companies, I just.

[Monica Padman]

So impressive on them.

[Dax Shepard]

So impressive.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it really is. Okay. There's a quiz you're going to take.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

It's a learning styles quiz.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Because we talked about visual learners.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. She said she was a visual learner.

[Monica Padman]

She did? Yeah. So we're going to find out what you are. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Now the choices are often, sometimes and seldom.

[Dax Shepard]

Often. Sometimes. Seldom.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I follow written directions better than oral direction. Directions.

[Dax Shepard]

Seldom.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I can remember more about a subject through listening than reading. Sometimes I bear down extremely hard when writing.

[Dax Shepard]

Always. What is that?

[Monica Padman]

Often?

[Dax Shepard]

Often. Yeah. Really?

[Monica Padman]

I like to write things down or take notes for visual review.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Often.

[Monica Padman]

I require explanations of graphs, diagrams or visual directions.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think so.

[Monica Padman]

Seldom.

[Dax Shepard]

Seldom.

[Monica Padman]

I enjoy working with tools all the time. I am skillful and enjoy developing and making graphs and charts.

[Dax Shepard]

Never.

[Monica Padman]

I can tell if sounds match when presented with pairs of sounds. I'd say, yeah, often or sometimes.

[Dax Shepard]

Often.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I remember best by writing things down several times. Often I can understand and follow directions on maps.

[Dax Shepard]

Often.

[Monica Padman]

I do better at academics, academic subjects by listening to tapes and lectures. Often I play with coins or keys in pockets.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, I have this. This is my binky. I say, often.

[Monica Padman]

I can better understand a news article by reading about it than by listening to it on the radio.

[Dax Shepard]

False. Rarely.

[Monica Padman]

Seldom. I learned to spell better by repeating the letters out loud than by writing the word on paper.

[Dax Shepard]

Never.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I chew gum, snack or smoke during studies.

[Dax Shepard]

Always.

[Monica Padman]

I feel the best way to remember is to picture it in one's head.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. Sometimes.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I would rather listen to a good lecture or speech than read about the same material in a book.

[Dax Shepard]

Always.

[Monica Padman]

I learned spelling by finger. Spelling. Spelling words in the air with index finger. The words.

[Dax Shepard]

Never. Seldom.

[Monica Padman]

I am good at working and solving jigs, jigsaw puzzles. Sometimes I prefer listening to the news on the radio more than reading about it in the newspaper. Often I grip objects in my hands during learning periods. Often I obtain information on an interesting subject by reading related materials. Often I follow oral directions better than written ones. Often I feel very comfortable touching others, hugging, handshaking, etc too much.

[Dax Shepard]

The results are, you're a perv.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Interpreting the perceptual preference form. Your perceptual preference can indicate through which channel to your brain information flows most easily. Information that you receive through your preferred channels is more quickly understood and more easily remembered. Arrange your academic life to take advantage of your best channels. Your highest Score tactile.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you learn touchy, touchy.

[Monica Padman]

You learn best by experience or hands on activity. By being involved physically in classroom experiences, you remember information well. When you actively participate in activities, field trips, and role playing in the classroom, or working on experiments in a laboratory, handling and building models and touching and working with materials, writing notes or instructions or a combination of stimuli. For example, an audio tape combined with an activity such as listen to a summary tapes you've made while you jog or making flashcards will help you understand and remember new material.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Your auditory score was second. That was a 30. Your tactile was a 36. Then your auditory is a 30. Your lowest is visual at 24.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so I'm not a visual learner.

[Monica Padman]

Turns out.

[Dax Shepard]

No, not true.

[Monica Padman]

That was cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Jo, give me the computer and I'll do it to you.

[Monica Padman]

It's all right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. What do you think you are?

[Monica Padman]

But based on that, I think I am a visual learner.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Ironic, because your vision is not great. I think how brilliant you'd be if you could see.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. It'd be too much for the world. It's why when I re. I like, like a book, I don't like an audiobook. It's in and out. I can't follow that, can't hold on to it. Yeah. But that one's a little tricky because I do retain a lot of hearing podcasts. But. But that feels different to me for some reason.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Maybe that feels more like a classroom, a professor situation.

[Monica Padman]

It's because often there's two people. So it's a conversation. It's engagement. I don't get to tune out.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And I feel like I'm participating.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're like, making a counter argument sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. It's engaging.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I don't think I'm very tactile.

[Dax Shepard]

Although you're not super mechanical.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

And you don't do pottery. Were you good at origami or folding paper?

[Monica Padman]

I tried it.

[Dax Shepard]

That's Link. Like, that's when Link kind of blows. My mind is the things she builds. Like this card she made you for your birthday was so cute.

[Monica Padman]

So cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Or her dioramas she makes. I'm like, oh, yeah. She really has a knack for this.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Yeah. No, that must. That's probably my last, lowest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I do like holding things. And I do like toothpicks.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Little tech I like chewing on. I like having, like, some objects while I'm stimulation.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Oral fixation, they call it.

[Monica Padman]

Let's Call it that, let's call it traditional.

[Dax Shepard]

Your results are in. You're perfect.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. That's it.

[Dax Shepard]

That was it on Bobby Brown.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You must admire her now.

[Monica Padman]

So much. Yeah, so much. She, I, I, I felt very seen. I did. I was like, oh. Especially when she talks about being in the details and that being like, you know, in her head. She was like, yeah, no, I was fired. They wouldn't say I was fired, but because, but they told me to get out of the day to day. That is the job.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's how I feel.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I get her.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It also made me. It's a good heads up for like, it's easy to be judgmental of people on their phone when you're doing a shared activity.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, like if you're watching a movie, it's certainly my preference. Someone would not be on their phones.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But to hear her say it and I'm not involved in that. And that's just how she, that's how she enjoys sitting there with a movie.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, yeah, I gotta be more.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I, I think that's just having an understanding of the other person. But also they could have an understanding that like, you enjoy quality time, which means not being distracted on the phone. Yeah. I mean, I do do that, but I'm by myself.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

If I'm with people, I try not to do that same.

[Dax Shepard]

I, even though if I'm by myself, I'll be like, put this down. You're gonna either watch this, right?

[Monica Padman]

I try to, but then all of a sudden it's back in my hand.

[Dax Shepard]

I started the wrong show, but what a blessing. Ryan's been saying that the Jason Momoa thing is great. It's on Apple tv.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, he's in like a loincloth and stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you love that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You can see his buns a lot, I guess.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I haven't seen you love that.

[Dax Shepard]

So I go to Apple TV and boom, there it is. He, the COVID He's looking warrior. Like, I watch it. It's called see?

[Monica Padman]

Uhhuh. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's by Steven Knight, Peaky Blinders.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cool.

[Dax Shepard]

And the premise is it's in the future and all humans are blind now. Right. And it's great. But I'm, I'm sending Ryan voice memos going, when am I going to see his buns? Like, sure. Also, I guess the only hard thing to accept about this show is that they can still fight even though they're blind. Whatever he sends me one back. You're not watching the same show I am.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

So Momoa has two. Two shows on Apple. What's the other one, Rob? Chief of War, I think Chief of War Cs. He's a little older. Chief of War just came out.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But he's got two where he's in the jungle swinging a sword. I mean, wow. At the same time.

[Monica Padman]

You should come on and tell us about them.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I'd love to have them on.

[Monica Padman]

You'd love to see those buns in person.

[Dax Shepard]

I like following him on Instagram. He's always having a good time and drinking a lot of beers.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, is he?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think he has a really good appetite for brewski, which I think is cool.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, all right.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.