Dove Cameron

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Featuring Dove Cameron

Release Date: April 7, 2025

In this emotionally charged episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, host Dax Shepard engages in an intimate and candid conversation with actress and singer Dove Cameron. Joined by co-host Monica Padman, the episode delves deep into Dove's personal journey, career evolution, and her path toward self-discovery and healing.

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1. Introduction to Dove Cameron’s Journey

Dove Cameron opens up about her multifaceted career, highlighting her roles in popular TV series such as "Liv and Maddie" and the film franchise "Descendants", as well as her endeavors in the music industry.

Notable Quote:

Dax Shepard [00:28:17]: "You have finite time and so you have to make some decision. And where on the scales are those two things?"

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2. Early Life and Family Dynamics

Dove shares her upbringing on Bainbridge Island, Washington, where her parents ran a successful jewelry business importing fine gemstones from India. This international exposure significantly shaped her worldview. However, her childhood was also marked by her father's severe depression, leading to emotional and physical outbursts that created an unstable home environment.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [21:00:27]: "I've always been exactly who I am. I have always been seen as the person I am today. And really, he didn't miss anything."

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3. Navigating Fame as a Teenager

Transitioning to fame at a young age brought its own set of challenges for Dove. Balancing her burgeoning career with personal struggles, including her father's suicide, Dove discusses the overwhelming pressure and the protective environment fostered by her team to shield her from the harsh realities of public life.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [35:08:00]: "The show was a great escape."

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4. Career Evolution: From Disney to Diverse Roles

Dove candidly discusses her move from Disney-centric projects to more diverse and challenging roles in film and television. She highlights her desire to break free from the "Disney mold" and pursue projects that resonate more authentically with her personal and artistic values.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [18:35:00]: "I wanted to be older. We already liked the compliment. We're mature."

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5. Embracing Her Music Career

Balancing acting with her passion for music, Dove explores the difficulties of managing both careers simultaneously. She emphasizes the importance of creative control over her music, sharing her struggles with record labels and her journey toward authentic self-expression through songwriting.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [50:00:00]: "I tried to do dramas. Acting super unshaken."

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6. Coming Out and the Importance of Authentic Representation

A pivotal part of the conversation centers on Dove's experience coming out as queer. She addresses the concept of queerbaiting in the entertainment industry and the necessity for genuine representation. Dove shares her proactive steps to ensure her work reflects her true identity and supports inclusivity.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [56:49:00]: "I just wanted more fucking representation in the fucking cartoon."

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7. Healing, Therapy, and Personal Growth

Dove opens up about her therapeutic journey, detailing how therapy has been instrumental in processing her past traumas and fostering personal growth. She discusses the impact of discovering her father's baby book, which provided her with unexpected insights into their relationship and helped her reconcile lingering feelings of inadequacy.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [42:05:00]: "I had spent almost a decade of my life processing a lot of trauma."

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8. Building Healthy Relationships and Support Systems

Meeting her partner is portrayed as a transformative experience for Dove, providing her with the emotional support and stability she had long sought. She underscores the importance of having a partner who accepts and encourages her authentic self, contributing significantly to her healing process.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [73:43:00]: "He's my biggest amplifier. And that, to me, has just been so healing."

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9. Future Projects and Continued Growth

Looking ahead, Dove discusses her upcoming projects, both in acting and music. She expresses excitement about new roles that challenge her creatively and shares plans for releasing authentic music that truly represents her as an artist.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [74:54:00]: "I have a new single coming out very, very soon."

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10. Conclusion: Embracing Authenticity and Resilience

The episode concludes with Dove reflecting on her journey of self-acceptance and the resilience it has fostered. Her honesty and vulnerability provide listeners with a profound understanding of the complexities of balancing personal struggles with professional aspirations.

Notable Quote:

Dove Cameron [68:55:00]: "I have always been exactly who I am. I have always been seen as the person I am today."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Armchair Expert offers a deep and heartfelt exploration of Dove Cameron's life, emphasizing themes of authenticity, healing, and the courage to pursue one's true self amidst adversity. Through her story, Dove inspires listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities and strive for personal growth, making this one of the most compelling episodes of the series.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by the Duchess of Duluth.

[Monica Padman]

Hi there, it's me.

[Dax Shepard]

This was a favorite.

[Monica Padman]

This was a great episode.

[Dax Shepard]

It was an incredible episode. One of these, I say they pop up like every 15th episode where one. So moving.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Very beautiful and so inspiring.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

To do this job to eternity.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

To sit down with a stranger in like a very special intimate exchange.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Lucky as hell.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, nice Dove Cameron. By the way, when I came in after this and I'm talking to the girls brushing their teeth, they don't ever care who I sure you know and sat with that day and I said, oh, man, I had a great interview with this actor, Dove Cameron, and they flipped out. They couldn't believe it.

[Monica Padman]

She hits a lot of markets. It's kind of funny. Anna was over watching our Sunday night shows before we recorded and I said, oh, we're having Dove Cameron this week. And she was like, oh, my brother loves Dove Cameron.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

And then also her mom and the mom. Yeah, Calvin and Calvin.

[Dax Shepard]

Calvin loves Dove.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, she's an Emmy award winning actor and singer. Descendants Living Maddie, Shameless, Cloud 9. Her album Alchemical.

[Monica Padman]

Alchemical, which we learn about.

[Dax Shepard]

I learned how to pronounce it and I've already forgotten her Volume one is already out and she has a new single out right now. Too much. It's a great song and it's really blowing up.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh, lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

As I would want for her.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This was awesome.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And please enjoy it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, please enjoy Dove Cameron. We are supported by Discover. If there's one thing people have learned from the entertainment industry, it's just how easy it is to earn a reputation, even if it doesn't reflect who you are. For example, everybody thinks that Discover is a card that isn't widely accepted, but in reality, it's accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Yes, 99%. So maybe now you'll think twice before judging a book by its cover. Unless it's a cookbook. In that case, judge away. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card we are supported by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check that you took your allergy pill first before you go to the botanical garden, like, you know, to make sure that cute coat you bought is waterproof first before you wear it outside on a rainy. Or checking that a potential partner is an armchairy. Checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. He's an armchair.

[Dove Cameron]

He's an.

[Dax Shepard]

What are bloomers, guys?

[Dove Cameron]

I know a bloomer.

[Monica Padman]

I know a bloomer.

[Dove Cameron]

I'm all about a bloomer.

[Monica Padman]

They originated in cheerleading.

[Dove Cameron]

Some of them can be late. Some of them can be early.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's a funny joke. She's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, late bloomer, early bloomer.

[Monica Padman]

That's like something that would be on Connections.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

I hate that. I don't know what that is.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a New York Times puzzle, and it has 16 words, and you have to put those words into four groups so they're associated. It's increasing hardness.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You would get the first for you. Oh, die. That's easy. But then it gets hard, and then it gets hoard. Hoard.

[Dove Cameron]

It gets hoard.

[Dax Shepard]

What's happening with your teeth? I'm already jealous.

[Dove Cameron]

My tooth gems.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's cool. You're very cool.

[Dax Shepard]

I've been circling. I want a gold tooth cap.

[Dove Cameron]

I have a girlfriend who has a gold tooth cap, and it is so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you connect me with her gold capist?

[Dove Cameron]

Absolutely. Oh, my God. I can't believe I'm already making connection.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Wow.

[Dove Cameron]

I have a question because I'm just first time sitting in this. Is there a way to angle the camera so I'm not flashing everybody? Oh, that's a great. Okay. Gorgeous. I love it because there's so many cameras that I don't know what you're catching. And I always just like to, like, mission statement.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't desire to have to show.

[Monica Padman]

My ass cheats on my face.

[Dove Cameron]

I don't desire or respire to have my ass out.

[Monica Padman]

It would be so annoying if we. Who did film this whole thing, and then we were like, I've been on.

[Dove Cameron]

TV for so long, you gotta ask these things because someone's gonna be like, oh, your ass was out the whole time.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And no one thought to tell me.

[Dove Cameron]

No one thought to tell me.

[Dax Shepard]

I've gotten brattier over the years. More protective of myself.

[Dove Cameron]

I've gotten brattier.

[Dax Shepard]

It happens when I do stuff with Kristin. They'll have Blocked it where they want me on her left side. And we're like, no, no, we don't do that. I'm always on her right side. And then Monica and I do stuff too. And it's like, I'm so sorry, but I gotta be on her right side.

[Dove Cameron]

So wait, is that because of the girl's side or your side?

[Monica Padman]

He. One side.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

I like one side too.

[Dax Shepard]

Which side?

[Dove Cameron]

We can never be photographed together because we have the same side.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Dove Cameron]

Or we could just like prom.

[Dax Shepard]

We would always do profile.

[Dove Cameron]

We could promise. I just have a stronger symmetry on the right side. Like, my jaw is more defined on this side. I have a slight difference in the tip of my nose. I also think maybe this eye is like slightly bigger. I'm sure it's an insanity.

[Dax Shepard]

You do have a very powerful mandible, like Kristen.

[Dove Cameron]

My jaw?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's very powerful.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, I've never heard that.

[Dax Shepard]

You haven't?

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, my God. I love a powerful mandible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, mandible is. It's essential for chewing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'm trying hard. I got chin filler.

[Dax Shepard]

Make it pop.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Try to pretend.

[Dove Cameron]

But see, you've got this beautiful thing happening where you have a very small face and huge features.

[Dax Shepard]

Bingo. I've been pointing that out for years now, almost cartoonish. The proportions of the eyes, I've never.

[Monica Padman]

Heard it like that. I like that.

[Dove Cameron]

I was just reading something the other day about the different beauty preferences for all around the globe. And the small face, big features is very youthful.

[Monica Padman]

I do read young and dove.

[Dax Shepard]

Just ding, ding, ding. Last night we were with Rob, who you just met his little boy Vinnie. Is Vinnie a little person?

[Monica Padman]

Rob?

[Dax Shepard]

He's 4% size. 4% size. He's really so tiny. And his eyeballs are size of ping pong balls. And we were eating dinner with him last night and I was like, this ratio of eyeballs to face size is the most appealing thing I've ever seen.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If he could keep that running.

[Dove Cameron]

You should keep that to yourself. He was staring at your son thinking we all were.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone just staring at the baby the whole time.

[Dax Shepard]

And that kind of. Right. Sizes the ship because his son actually verbally assaulted my 11 year old last night.

[Dove Cameron]

So you were just balancing this.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm just trying to balance it. Her defense. He's a baby, Vinnie. And he's talking to Link. He loves Lincoln, our daughter. Look at that little.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, my God. Shockingly large eyes. What a beautiful little babe.

[Dax Shepard]

He's Talking to my 11 year old and he goes, I like your hair. And your body. And I like your butt, I like.

[Dove Cameron]

Your hair, I like your body, and I like your butt pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you don't say that. Vinn, he's three. He didn't know what he was.

[Dove Cameron]

He has to know almost no words. And those are some of the words he knows.

[Dax Shepard]

He had already complimented on her earrings, and now he was just moving on to anything he could think of. So hair, body, butt.

[Dove Cameron]

He's like, nice knees. Yeah, good knees.

[Monica Padman]

He's so ahead of the game with those big eyes and giving compliments. Oh, he's gonna kill her.

[Dove Cameron]

He's gonna absolutely slay and slam. I also love this crazy combo of you have a protein shake, you have a diet coke. I really know I'm home. I come never anywhere less than three beverages in my purse.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, clearly you must be seeing the litany of ADHD messages on Instagram. Like, post. Have you noticed this like tidal wave of. I don't know if it's my algorithm or everyone's.

[Dove Cameron]

No, no, it's everyone's.

[Dax Shepard]

One thing that I saw was someone saying adhd people always have like three drinks.

[Dove Cameron]

Really? I think it's because we're so stimulus addicted. I realized I was a stimulus addict 10 years ago. I was little and I was like, I can't do anything unless there's many things happening at once.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Dove Cameron]

You know something funny? This is just a random anecdote that I have for you. Your wife guest starred on my Disney channel show.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow. She did.

[Dove Cameron]

She came for an episode of Liv and Maddie when I was itty bitty. And it was because she was friends with Andy Fickman, who created Liv and Maddie.

[Dax Shepard]

He did. We love Andy Fickman. Right?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Isn't he part of Reefer?

[Dax Shepard]

That's where they met Reefer Madness.

[Dove Cameron]

Heather's the musical.

[Dax Shepard]

And they did you again together.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cool.

[Dove Cameron]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a sweet, sweet boy.

[Dove Cameron]

That's my man.

[Dax Shepard]

I too, was there. Not on that. But my best friend who's visiting right now brought his at the time, 11 year old son and he was obsessed with that show, Liv and Manny. Yes. And I'm like, do you have a dream thing to witness? And he was like, Liv. And many. So I figured out how to get us in there so he could watch.

[Dove Cameron]

That's so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a little anecdotal history with you as well.

[Dove Cameron]

I'm actually glad I didn't know that because I was such a fan of both you and Chris, I probably would have passed out.

[Dax Shepard]

You think so?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you can be honest, probably more of a fan of Kristen.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but genuinely a huge fan of you as well. I was always a massive comedy girl growing up. I remember you guys have a movie together that I was really obsessed with. Hit and Run, that opening scene when she's crying and all of that. It's so beautiful.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Nina Dax wrote that.

[Dove Cameron]

I remember.

[Dax Shepard]

That's our favorite thing we've ever been a part of because it was just our movie that we paid for. We made it because we wanted to make it. And it's all my cars. Yeah. It's very special. We just showed it to our daughters.

[Dove Cameron]

And how old are your daughters?

[Dax Shepard]

10 and 11.

[Dove Cameron]

Perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's talk about Washington.

[Dove Cameron]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I have spent almost a decade of my life up there.

[Dove Cameron]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

My ex girlfriend of nine years, Bri, was from Marysville, Everett. Lived on the Tulalip reservation on the Puget Sound.

[Dove Cameron]

No way.

[Dax Shepard]

In your Bainbridge, which is an island.

[Dove Cameron]

Huh? The Pacific Northwest is so beautiful. And it's full of people who are born there, raised there, never leave. And then if you're not from there, I'm always shocked that you might have a reason to go there. It feels like a Twilight Zone Y area that to me does not exist outside of the people who eat, sleep, and breathe that community.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right. It is a very specific area. I took to it immediately because her friends were all also alcoholics, which I loved.

[Dove Cameron]

Probably a lot of drinking and masculine.

[Dax Shepard]

They might be driving a truck and maybe they work for the forestry service, but they're also liberal.

[Dove Cameron]

Super liberal.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I was like, oh, this is refreshing.

[Dove Cameron]

You found the feminist liberal Mountaineers Mondale.

[Dax Shepard]

Ferrara bumper sticker from the 80s on their truck still. But did you go crabbing?

[Dove Cameron]

We went geoduck. What's gooey duck? I still don't think in my adulthood I could explain what a geoduck is. It's like this massive. I'm gonna get it wrong and everyone's gonna be like, gooey duck.

[Monica Padman]

We'll factor.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica will factor.

[Dove Cameron]

The gooey duck community is gonna be livid. But it's this massive, long, amorphous clam thing. It's a hard shell sea animal. Inside, there's some Eatons. And you like, boil the gooey ducks like a clammy oystery. I never liked them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, this sounds horrible.

[Dove Cameron]

It sounds disgusting. But I remember the hunting process being super exciting. And in between, kayaking, hiking, it was a very natural North Face branded upbringing.

[Dax Shepard]

What age did you start drinking coffee. Because I'll say this, when I was drinking after spending time there, one knock I have on the area is, you get exhausted there. It's drizzly and dark and damp.

[Dove Cameron]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, oh, duh. The coffee revolution started here.

[Dove Cameron]

I have my own theories about how Seattle became what it is, because Seattle particularly has a huge coffee culture, huge undergr music culture, and huge jazz music and wine culture. My theory is the same as yours. I think that everyone was like, it's fucking miserable outside. What can we do inside? And then you got all of these little jazz bars and these weird little underground city hubs.

[Dax Shepard]

Capitol Hill.

[Dove Cameron]

Capitol Hill. So sick. And then everybody just sort of stayed inside and never came out. And it became like this cozy little. We listen to jazz and drink wine and everybody's like a little bit pretentious. Depressed pretentious, but like, you're chill.

[Monica Padman]

Good mix.

[Dove Cameron]

Good. Yeah. I started drinking coffee at like 12.

[Dax Shepard]

That was my hunch. I don't think you could have made it to school if you weren't because it's just too dark and drizzly.

[Dove Cameron]

It's just disgusting outside. The rain used to be such a constant for me that it was like, you're walking in the rain. You don't put makeup on, you don't do your hair. You surrender to the rain. And then I lived in LA for one year and I went back to Seattle. You lose your tolerance.

[Dax Shepard]

That's me in Michigan now. I'm like, oh my God, it's too cold for humans to live here.

[Dove Cameron]

How did I ever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I got a second dig about Seattle.

[Dove Cameron]

Give me the digit.

[Dax Shepard]

It's raining 200 days a year and no one can drive in the rain. Seattle people are going 30 miles an hour on the highway when there's a little drizzle.

[Dove Cameron]

It's true. But I also think it's because truly they have nowhere to be.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, good point.

[Dove Cameron]

Not in a derogatory way, but in a healthy. We're living a real human life. We're living slow. Now that I live in LA and New York and I'm really splitting my time. The rushing and the mania of these cities. You go back to a healthy, normal, working city where it's like you go to your job, you go to the airport, you bank three hours. So I think that that's part of less that they cannot drive in the rain, and it's more that they're like, eh, fuck it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so what did mom and dad do on this island for a living?

[Dove Cameron]

So crazy enough they didn't work on the island. They worked as far away as they possibly could. They had a business out of India, the country India.

[Monica Padman]

Oh wow.

[Dove Cameron]

Jaipur and New Delhi, Jodhpur, some select parts of Mumbai. They were importers so they would design jewelry and certain goods. They had all of their suppliers in India, which is where all of the silver, gold, all the fine gemstones, all of the materials are in India. And they had all of these houses and suppliers that they worked with. So they truly spent half of their year in Jaipur and New Delhi.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh really? And were you going with them on these trips?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah. I have an older sister and she was very much in high school and they were like, you can't do your homework on the road. And I was like, I want to be homeschooled, I want to travel.

[Dax Shepard]

How much older is she than you?

[Dove Cameron]

Seven years.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's a hefty. That's Monica and her brother's.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, they say that that's like the only child.

[Monica Padman]

It is. You grew up in two different lives.

[Dax Shepard]

You wouldn't go for six months though, would you?

[Dove Cameron]

No, I think the longest I went was four months.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, that's a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

That's hefty. And did you love it? Did you hate it?

[Dove Cameron]

Absolutely loved it. I feel like I've spent so many of my early brain forming amoebas connecting memories in India and it was so life changing. My dad was always also really big on, if you ever are saving money, it's for travel. If you ever do anything, it's for travel, it's for education, it's for expanding the frontal lobe.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not a rad car like me and my dad think travel is always.

[Dove Cameron]

The number one to do. And so I was really lucky because my parents, parents were just like, she's so small. What is she really gonna fucking learn in second grade?

[Monica Padman]

Let's get outta here.

[Dax Shepard]

So you did homeschool the whole time you were on that island?

[Dove Cameron]

I was in public school, which on Bainbridge island is like 20 kids. I did public school from kindergarten through second or third grade and no kid is happy in school. But I was really struggling. I was starting to get a little weird and internal and my parents were like, she doesn't have peers.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you shy?

[Dove Cameron]

I was really self expressed. I was very precocious and I was too much for other kids and I really, really wanted to be friends with other kids. But I think I an easy fit for groups of friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you come on like a freight train?

[Dove Cameron]

I think probably, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I can smell it.

[Monica Padman]

I like it.

[Dax Shepard]

But you're like, a lot.

[Dove Cameron]

Actually.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I love it.

[Dove Cameron]

No, I've really mellowed out over the years. But I think as a kid, I wanted to, like, love people and love them hard. That's also around the age where kids start to suss out who's weird.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

And kids start to be like, you're doing weird things. And we're not doing any of those things in group.

[Monica Padman]

Out group.

[Dove Cameron]

And I was very much.

[Dax Shepard]

Your level of intimacy is very uncomfortable for me at 8.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Which I was similar to, by the way.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dove Cameron]

I feel like so many of us, especially in the industry, have that story.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you're stubbed hitting your mom.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, are you hellaciously traumatized? And they were like, I just want to go home and watch Nickelodeon. I was like, I don't have Nickelodeon. I very much, like, also was always hanging out with my parents, friends, and so I was trying to have real conversations when I was too little to be doing that.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you love being told you were old for your age?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I was one of those kids that was wearing big coats and being like, I'm just so stressed. Honestly, I'm exhausted, like, with my empty wine glass.

[Dax Shepard]

You wanted to have been going through something.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I wanted to be stressed so bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I understand. What age do. Did they get divorced?

[Dove Cameron]

13 or 14.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so does it correspond with you moving to Burbank?

[Dove Cameron]

Kind of.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, we gotta add. Before you move to Burbank, you start acting at 8. You're doing local theater in Bainbridge, and you're already on that trajectory before we go to Burbank?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. That was kind of the only place my mom could stick me. She was like, you gotta channel the energy and you hate soccer. And I was like, let's do theater. It was this tiny, sweet, little community theater where they were putting on Les Mis Teen Summer. And I was playing Little Cosette and doing Shakespeare summer camp and playing Lady Macbeth. And I was so into it. And then, funny enough, the first gig I got was for Ryan Gosling's Halloween band.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God, he had a Halloween band.

[Dove Cameron]

And it is fucking incredible. It's so.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course. That bastard. So good.

[Monica Padman]

That fucking every.

[Dax Shepard]

So hard to like him. But I can't resist something about him.

[Dove Cameron]

I just can't resist it. He had this crazy Halloween band called Dead Man's. Dead Man's Bones. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Robbie.

[Dove Cameron]

He's a dead man's bone. First time he's ever spoken today, and it's really quite good. I still Listen to it. It's very experimental, him and his friend. But they had this concept of having, like, a ghostly children's choir.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

My first ever gig, I got paid, like, 120 bucks or something.

[Dax Shepard]

This is why you're still in Washington?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. I played an Adults Only underground club.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

Because he was there.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. They came through on, like, a little tour, like a club tour.

[Dax Shepard]

And they were casting locally. Whoever was managing that show had a lot on their plate.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Teen shows. And you gotta find a ghost choir in every city.

[Dove Cameron]

A children's ghost choir.

[Dax Shepard]

Good luck.

[Monica Padman]

He had big aspirations, but it worked.

[Dove Cameron]

Out for him, and we're so proud of him. I don't know if you know this guy. His name is Ryan Goff. Like, I think it worked out fine.

[Monica Padman]

He's doing great.

[Dove Cameron]

So that was my first ever thing. And then I was just so convinced that I was gonna find my people in Hollywood. That was more the impetus.

[Dax Shepard]

So you were kind of driving this move to Burbank?

[Dove Cameron]

100%. My parents wanted absolutely nothing less for me than to be in film and television. I think it was something that they felt was kind of inevitable and that my sales pitch, I was like, I'm gonna do this when I turn 18, with or without you. I would really love your support, and I would love to start before it gets much harder for me to start when all the other girls are 18.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right.

[Dove Cameron]

My parents split up. My mom moved out. I lived with her in her little apartment on Bainbridge Island. And she had just gotten her master's degree in sustainability, which was so badass to watch my mom do that.

[Dax Shepard]

And a little ahead of the curve for her.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, yeah. Very like Washington. That was when she was talking to me about fuel efficiency. All these things that now are super common knowledge. Glass bottles are not more than plastic bottles because of the amount of resources we have to use to ship them all these things. It was such a cool thing for her to do once she had already had her whole business that she ran with my dad when they divorced.

[Dax Shepard]

The dad just keep going with the business, and she just left the business.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. I think he tried to keep the business going for a while. I think it was kind of impossible to run on his own. The business ended up going very under a few years after.

[Dax Shepard]

This is an incredible amount to be happening at once for dad. If he's losing this business he's had for a very long time, that that's stable. And his wife he's had for a long time, and then now his Daughter's moving down to Burbank.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. It was a truly complex transitional time in the family. I'm going to be 30 next year. And as someone who has retroactively studied my family dynamics ad nauseam in therapy and in my own existence, in my brain, in my life, I truly don't know if it could have gone any other way. They were always going to divorce. It was not a surprise.

[Monica Padman]

So you felt that when you were in the dynamic they are supposed.

[Dove Cameron]

I think I knew that from as early as you can know that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's an interesting thing at play, and Kristen and I have this too. It could go wrong. It's gone well. But when you're both locked into somebody because you have a kid and you're locked into them professionally, I think that's an interesting dynamic to navigate because you're kind of like, I'm not sure how much of this I'm picking. As much as now. I just am locked. We have these two commitments together, and that can be hard.

[Dove Cameron]

I think that my mom would very confidently say that they were not a love match. It was not something that they endeavored to do, was be together for as long as they were together. And when I moved in with my mom, it was because my dad and I were having a very difficult time with a very tenuous relationship. At that point.

[Dax Shepard]

You were 13.

[Dove Cameron]

13, 14. It starts getting dicey around there. As an adult now, I can look back and be like, that was fair on my part to distance myself. Everything was kind of falling apart at once and getting very human and very real and very adult. And my mom just kind of scooped me up and was like, we're getting the fuck out of here, kid. My mom is the most beautiful woman on the face of the planet. And she is so astute, so intelligent, so sensitive. And I think she was just like. And look over here.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did dad have some mental health stuff? Did he have depression?

[Dove Cameron]

Very much. But it was more than that. I'm not sure the tone of the show how it was all the way so real deep. My dad was severely depressed, which manifested in a lot of violence. Emotional, mental, physical outbursts. Very kind of unsafe. And it got worse as I got older and especially when my sister left to go to college and I was the only kid. And I was also dealing with my own transitioning into teenagehood depression. And there had also already been a really big dark streak in our family because my best friend was murdered by her own father.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

No way.

[Dove Cameron]

I feel like the first eight years of my memory were pretty good. Maybe some tension with the parents. Don't really see them kiss. But not as aware as after that. Murder suicide, very real thing happened when I was 8. I think it really did shift the dynamic because they were very close to our family and it just accelerated a lot of darkness in the family.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, if I was your mom, I was like, oh, it can go this way. I'm not gonna be around for this version.

[Dove Cameron]

Yes. And also, my mom was so young when she met my dad. They were 20 years apart. They got pregnant, and it was kind of like, okay, we're gonna get married. My mom is very open about this. I'm not saying anything that she wouldn't feel comfortable with me sharing.

[Dax Shepard]

I have the same kind of mom. Isn't it a blessing?

[Dove Cameron]

I think it's necessary. It's a sort of a generosity that you give to your kids because it's really helped me in my development.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's all getting reframed, but whereas that stuff used to cause shame, now I think it's more a testament to bravery and resilience. Like all these stories, for me, they're empowering. They're not shame inducing. They're like, oh, fuck yeah. These humans live through this. That's rad.

[Dove Cameron]

I always found it strange, this tab around mental health or loss or trauma, because I would mention something that I thought was singular to me in my young Life, and like, eight hens out of 20 would go up and be like, me too. And I was like, so we're all pretending this is a singular issue and we're keeping it to ourselves. For whose benefit?

[Dax Shepard]

I know who? Our neighbors. Exactly.

[Dove Cameron]

You know, sort of like a 1950s.

[Dax Shepard]

Who are also fucked up. They got some shit going on next door.

[Dove Cameron]

How much more helpful would it be if we could all.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't keep your. Your darkness hidden indefinitely.

[Dove Cameron]

It's untenable.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So you could have that goal, but it's not even gonna work.

[Dove Cameron]

But also, I think we're already doing a disservice to ourselves by calling it a darkness. I take back my framing of that because it's only dark in comparison to something that we've constructed that's actually not real or attainable.

[Dax Shepard]

It's relative to a fantasy, relative to.

[Dove Cameron]

This cultural dream that's never existed and is super toxic. So I'm always very open. I just sort of have a knee jerk reaction to being like, am I being too open? Are you okay?

[Dax Shepard]

I definitely border on oversharing.

[Dove Cameron]

Me too.

[Dax Shepard]

I would love to just make that selection right out of the gates. That's totally great if that's not your jam. But there's no way I can talk about your job for two hours at dinner. I gotta talk about it.

[Dove Cameron]

What is that? I get so burnt out if I talk about anything except for someone's real life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

But I'll be at the airport with someone who's helping me with my baggage or something. Or like a security person. I'll be like, how's your mom? Like, I've never met that person before. And I'm like, what are you doing after this? What's your night gonna look like?

[Dax Shepard]

How did you get out of bed today?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I'm like, and where did you go to college? And who was your first love?

[Monica Padman]

I love it.

[Dove Cameron]

I love humans. I wish we could just demystify.

[Dax Shepard]

So when you got down to Burbank, did you get a wave of. Oh, it's a little less intense here. And this is nice.

[Dove Cameron]

Yes. When I got to Burbank High, Burbank High School. I was so culture clashy at first because it was huge. The school was bigger than the population of the place where I was from.

[Dax Shepard]

We have a friend that graduated from there. Yeah. We're kind of familiar with the vibe. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

Love Burbank.

[Dax Shepard]

He was also a show choir person.

[Monica Padman]

So was I. I know.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a national champion, right?

[Dove Cameron]

My choir was. I don't think I was, but it was so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

I lived and breath reads for show choir.

[Dax Shepard]

What makes it show choir? I'm a philistine. I just know the word choir.

[Dove Cameron]

Show choir is. You're putting on like a 20 minute traveling medley. Mashup dancing.

[Monica Padman]

Fun.

[Dove Cameron]

It's super sick.

[Dax Shepard]

So there's dancing and voguing, costume changes.

[Dove Cameron]

Super full out and competitive.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Is Burrows the same thing?

[Dove Cameron]

Burrows is the same thing. And we are rivals, baby.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Burrows is where our friend went. I'm sorry, you're actually a rival of our friend.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, I didn't realize. Was. In fact, I feel.

[Monica Padman]

I feel being here, I feel a.

[Dax Shepard]

Little morally torn right now.

[Dove Cameron]

It's very funny because my absolute best friend in the world, Veronica, we met because she was in the rival show choir.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, fun.

[Monica Padman]

Cuz it's very Glee. This. Burbank versus Burrows is Glee. It's what? It's.

[Dove Cameron]

People were getting their tires slashed and like, it was so nuts.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I love.

[Dove Cameron]

And also, like, so camp. We're all showing up some weird, weird, rural California school to compete. And then everybody's like, they smashed our Tires. You gotta go full out on that grand today, dude. Like, it was so funny. You better lock in on those fucking harmonies, dude. Show them where we come from. Burbank. But yeah, I loved it.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you hang at that AMC?

[Dove Cameron]

I still hang at that fucking AMC.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's a powerful AMC. What? It's 30, 70.

[Dove Cameron]

There's like a couple hundred magnetic field under that AMC. I take my very Italian boyfriend and I'm like, isn't this amazing?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm like, this is San Fernando's American. I always say to people who are not from here, if there is a Midwest of la, it's bourbon.

[Monica Padman]

It is. It's very suburban.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a lot of trades. People that live there that are crew members, they're lighters, they're gaffers.

[Dove Cameron]

We have the candy shop. Three frozen yogurt spots. Yeah. A Nordstrom rack.

[Monica Padman]

That's as suburban as it gets.

[Dax Shepard]

The Nordstrom rack.

[Dove Cameron]

I really go there when I need to like crack, align my brain. When I need like an alignment adjust, I go back to San Fernando.

[Dax Shepard]

Remember who you are. Okay, so you're going to Burbank High and then you're starting to audition.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Then you get this pilot, Bits and Pieces.

[Dove Cameron]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Research and you shoot bits and pieces. And then what happens during the filming of Bits and Pieces?

[Dove Cameron]

Normally as a 14 year old, all you get sent out on is Disney. And I remember my first couple rounds of going in for Disney and all of the casting directors being like, please don't send this girl in anymore. She's not funny and she's actually quite dark and she's off putting. And I was like, fuck you guys.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

I came here because I wanted to do dramas.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Seriously.

[Dove Cameron]

Acting super unshaken. I at that point was very. Not 14. They kept being like, she's not reading. As young as she biologically is. She doesn't have that sparkly thing. And the reason that my mom felt confident enough to bring me to LA was because we got really far in the process of casting for True Grit, Coen Brothers.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no kidding.

[Dove Cameron]

We got super far randomly out of a Seattle office.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you get to read for them?

[Dove Cameron]

No. But we got down to the point where we'd been going in for like three months and they were calling us with updates. It's down to you and three other girls. It's down to you and two other girls. And so my mom was like, oh, so my kid's not out of her mind. She might be able to do this. And so I really wanted to keep Going out for film and there was all these really exciting things happening and Disney in the least ungrateful sounding way, it just was not on my bucket list.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. You were trying to be older. We already liked the compliment. We're mature. Yeah, you're not trying to get on a kid show. You're trying to be in true grip.

[Dove Cameron]

And I also didn't have cable, so I didn't have the Disney upbringing. I saw it at my friend's house. I knew what it was. But the basic, like bunny rabbit ears wasn't a thing in my house. And so we stopped going out for Disney. And then my agents, we have a Disney thing, but it's being directed by a guy who mostly does film, Andy Figman. It's like a sort of a breaking the fourth wall thing. It's a bunch of movie people and the script is actually really funny. Would you go in for it? And I loved all of Andy's previous work, she's the Man. And so I was like, yeah, fuck it, whatever, I'll go in. And I was reading for something else because one of the casting directors from Disney famously did not like me. I didn't know why.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't like how she makes me feel.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, exactly. And I went in and I just decided to go full manic, balls to the wall, stupid schlapstick, over the top comedy. And I booked it.

[Dax Shepard]

When you were doing that, did it come with some discomfort? Were you like, I hate who I am being right now or you were like, oh, no, this is fun to be this too.

[Dove Cameron]

I was just having so much fun because the comedies that I was raised on were all of the Monty Python and Gone with the not Gone with the Wind.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a hilarious.

[Dove Cameron]

You know what I'm talking about. Casablanca and like all those comedies, Scarface.

[Dax Shepard]

There's this. Stay tuned for more Armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Addie Flanserin the Little Pink Pill. Ask your doctor if the FDA approved Little Pink Pill. Addi is right for you. See full prescribing information, medication guide and boxed warning regarding severe low blood pressure and fainting in certain situations settings at a d d y I.com PI or call 844-PINK PILL. We are supported by Quints. Something about the weather warming up makes you want to get outside and go somewhere new, doesn't it? It's the spring travel itch.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my gosh, it's spring break is upon us. Whether you're in school or not, you should still take a spring trip.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Dove Cameron]

The Pianist. Exactly. I'm thinking of a Mighty Wind. All of those Christopher Gass and Mossy Python. So I knew stupid comedy better than rhythmic laugh track. Comedy. And so I just went in being like, I'm going to be so crazy stupid, and I'm gonna, like, scream at the top of my lungs and do the most outlandish choices because either I'm gonna get the role and have so much fun doing that, or they're gonna be like, that was so crazy. Never bring her back. And I was comfortable with that. I was like, I don't wanna really do Disney anyway. So we booked it and I had so much fun. And at the time, it was just sort of a modern family setup, a blended family. I was playing the older sister who really loved fashion, was bratty, and didn't wanna deal with her little siblings. And then we had Joey and Tenzing, who ended up playing the brothers. And then we had another younger actress who was playing my younger sister. And then we had this very piv where we're talking in the mirror during the pilot that I guess swung Disney in the direction of. They had always wanted to do a twin show, but they never tried it. And at that point, I had already done one Disney Channel original movie for them where I was, like, snowboarding and it was so crazy, and they just bet on me. We went away for, like, nine months. They were like, don't work. And then one day they called me and they were like, hey, show's picked up. Get ready for everything in your whole life to change. Also, you're playing twins, and we'll see you on Monday.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it way more work if you're playing twins or.

[Dove Cameron]

No, you're shooting every scene twice.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[Dove Cameron]

Honestly, I had fun. I feel like everybody's waiting for me to be like, so tell me about Disney.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

We had the best team. We had Ron and John, who were our showrunners. I really grew up on that set. When I was getting my driver's license, all the showrunners and writers walked out with me. I got picked up on the studio lot by the driver, and they showed up with signs being like, watch out, new driver on the road. Disaster. And I was like, yeah, you gotta.

[Dax Shepard]

Get the fuck away from me.

[Dove Cameron]

It was just a really lovely, safe way.

[Dax Shepard]

So it was huge. Liv and Maddie comes out and it gets 5.8 million viewers. And that's the most viewers Disney had gotten in two and a half years.

[Dove Cameron]

Really? I didn't know.

[Dax Shepard]

It's, like, hugely successful and you do four seasons.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What was it like to have overnight fandom from young people?

[Dove Cameron]

I couldn't have prepared. I also think I surprised Myself by being more introverted than I anticipated, which you truly don't know until you're put into that situation and then you're like, oh, I'm very introverted. I didn't really learn how to navigate fan attention or public attention for many years. I used to have fan panic attacks. So not to heavily shift, but to give you context. At the point that Liv and Maddie was airing and I was working, my father had taken his own life.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

And so there was so much going on in my personal life that's gonna affect any kid when you're 15 and that happens, it changes the course of your life. And within the same calendar year, we were in 900 million homes, translated into all these different languages.

[Monica Padman]

So overwhelmed. Like two of the biggest things someone could experience at once.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And one great. And one. And I'd imagine I would feel guilty enjoying the great thing because this other thing happened. I just imagine tension between those two things.

[Dove Cameron]

I couldn't, at 15, land in a soft spot around what happened with my father. There was no way for me to wrap my head around it. We were at his funeral on Bainbridge island, and then a couple months later, I was at the Grove with people asking me to sign glossies. And I didn't know how to really reconcile with that because, like, the beginning of my career, I was so shrouded by this heavy cloud that it didn't hit me that I was a famous person until years later. I really was protected in the soundstage. I would come to work every day, and some days would be good and some days would be bad, and everybody was super protective of me. And it was kind of like a volatile time in my life in general. Just being a teenager, being on tv. The show was a great escape.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I bet when you get there and you don't think about the fact that your dad has died for 11 hours, and then you get off.

[Dove Cameron]

It was this mind fuck because you're in this world of like, hi, guys. I'm Dove Cameron. And da, da, da, da. And you get home and it's silent, and your mom is like, you okay? And you're like, yeah, I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

You tell me. Am I okay?

[Dove Cameron]

And then you're in therapy, and then they're like, you want to be medicated? And you're like, I don't think so. I don't know if I can act if I medicate. It was this crazy teenage h. Were.

[Dax Shepard]

You having any guilt about being in Burbank?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. It was a weird thing, because to Be completely honest. I tried to mend my relationship with my dad a lot. There's this thing that happens with a lot of people who are depressed where they are perpetually pushing people away. And for the entirety of 13 and 14 and 15, I was really trying to connect with my dad. He was always a depressive person. My mom and him met and he was like, I'm super suicidal. And she was like, okay, I'm 20. We're gonna try to get you out of this, you know, like, yeah. So it was always sort of there, but I was really just like, I miss my dad. I know something's weird. He doesn't answer when I call.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, the most heartbreaking part it would seem to me is that you at least had the fantasy at all times. This will get repeated, repaired one day. Yeah, I keep trying, but one day he's going to be feeling better and I can get it repaired.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, sorry, no.

[Dax Shepard]

And then they go, oh God, yeah, I'm not going to be able to repair. That is really sad.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's, it's, it's also like I think about this a lot because I was so young and I have a memory of him coming to stay with us once in Burbank and I just remember thinking all the color had left his face and I didn't know he was drinking so heavily and all of that. And I remember being young enough, like 14. He was staying on a little blow up mattress in our living room. He wasn't looking at me in the eye. I thought he was mad at me and I came to like say goodnight or lay down next to him because I was still a very young 14. Mentally I was mature, but I wasn't dating. I was my parents kid and I was very insulated and very, very protected. And I remember laying down next to him just for a second to be like cuddle time routine. And he didn't really move. And I remember him being like, I think you should, you should go to bed. And I remember receiving that as just such a rejection that like he didn't want to and I didn't know what it was. I truly thought he was angry with me for something. And you know when you're a kid you blame yourself, of course. And so I was like, maybe I'm behaving badly or something. I didn't really get it or I.

[Dax Shepard]

Would just feel guilty that I'm pursuing my own life.

[Dove Cameron]

He was always vaguely supportive. I guess he was worried about me more than anything. He was worried that I wasn't going to be able to survive in Hollywood. I knew that. But I had gone back to see him after I had lived in LA for a year, and I stayed for the summer at our family home. I went because I wanted to spend the summer with my dad and I wanted to see him. And we hadn't seen each other for so long. And I remember him doing everything he could to get me to not stay with him. He would send me to stay with my friends.

[Dax Shepard]

He probably didn't want you to see him, how he was existing.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, he. He was like a famously tight walleted man. He was always like, you get $100 for clothes every year before school, and if you grow out of them, that's your problem. You go secondhand shopping six outfits out.

[Dax Shepard]

Of this, good luck.

[Dove Cameron]

He's like, if you grow, that's your problem. And then the rest, like you have a sewing machine figured out. And I was like, all right. But the summer that I stayed with him, I remember he was just giving me money to get out of the house. And I was like, that's so bizarre. And I didn't really realize that he had already put a plan in place. He got rid of all of the animals. He was getting rid of all of his money.

[Dax Shepard]

God, isn't it weird to think of someone planning for that long something like that? Yeah, it kind of goes against my stereotype of it overwhelming you in a moment.

[Monica Padman]

Well, it might not have been as consciously planned as just like, I don't want anything.

[Dax Shepard]

You've lost even the desire. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

You've lost the desire to even care for anything or have anything.

[Dove Cameron]

I still go back and forth on that because I found out later that he was paying my friend's mom to get me groceries and basically was just pawning me off on another fan. I internalized it for two years that he was just mad at me. And I was constantly trying to fix our relationship and reach out, and he just wasn't having it. And so I don't think at the time I felt guilty for being in LA so much as even when I was on the island, still, he was not really wanting to see me. And so I was kind of like, I'm always here. I'm always wanting to connect.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, your side of the street was clean.

[Dove Cameron]

And I found out also that he had attempted something really publicly, and my mom kept that from me. And that was a big turning point in my mental health, was just being like, what do I not know? And my mom was probably right to keep that from Me. But of course, when I was 14 or something, I was like, what the fuck? So I really didn't know what to think of it. The last thing he texted me was, I love you, Chlo. And then we got a call the next day, and it was like, yeah, it's really crazy. I honestly don't talk about it too much.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

Understandably not because it's hard, honestly, because I do talk about it, but I talk about it with this kind of like, here are the facts.

[Monica Padman]

You can dismiss me a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

So I went into therapy for the very first time three years ago or two, whatever it was. Oh, really?

[Dove Cameron]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Weirdly, since I was in recovery for so long, and I was like, well, I'm getting everything I need from there. And, yeah, I can tell you my story. I can tell anyone my story. Yeah, it's a timeline. And then in that therapy session, as I was talking to him for the very first time, the emotions were attached to the timeline, and they just are not generally for me. So I can relate to these moments. Moments where like, oh, okay, the emotions are here now with the story.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. A lot of the time, trauma is very sensationalized, I'm sure, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

I've become very protective of that over the years because I used to be much more open about speaking about it. I had a friend who died very publicly in the last few years, and that was when I tried to reorient a little bit my autonomy over what spaces I share that much.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, my therapist said to me, he's like, you know, some stuff you can keep for your. Yourself, not because you're hiding it out of shame, but just, it's yours to keep, and you should keep it. Having it for you in a weird way, which is a new concept for me.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Sort of the opposite of what we were talking about earlier, which I was actually going to say that I think it's actually okay. Not out of shame, but when we were saying sharing is important, and of course it is, but it's okay to have things that are just yours.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't mean it's your secret. It's just yours, and you can protect yourself.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's. Your life is just sliding that line back and forth. And it's like, yeah, I felt comfortable with it here, and now I feel more comfortable with it here, and it'll probably change again, and it's fine. There's not a right or wrong. It's just, am I betraying myself? Do I regret it later?

[Dove Cameron]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You did make me cry. Today though, because I was seeing the tattoo that you got and I have little girls and I say that same thing to them all the time.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh my God, you're gonna make me cry.

[Monica Padman]

That's so.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, oh my God, I can't it. Yeah. If they had to tattoo that on them at some point cuz something went sideways, you know, it's just heartbreaking.

[Monica Padman]

What is the tattoo, if you don't.

[Dove Cameron]

Mind sharing it says we'll be friends forever. Which is just like the sweetest.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. I him like almost every time the way I go, I'm like, you know, we're going to be best friends for the rest of your. Rest of my life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Unless I get a procedure. Hopefully I live for 180. Maybe I can do with. Yeah. I'm like, we're best friends from this day till the end.

[Dove Cameron]

Well, and that's what it should be, right? I'm so moved to hear you say that about your girls because I truly was best friends with my dad. He tried his best.

[Dax Shepard]

There's probably equally sweet relationships, but I find it hard to believe there are. I just can't imagine between a dad and daughter like if moms and sons are having this and I suppose I did have that with my mom, but just it's inconceivable that anything be sweeter. In fact, we went to see my 11 year old sing in her choir. She goes in all girls school. So it's just all these little girls up there singing. And I said to my wife, I'm like, they're the best thing. We've got daughters on planet Earth. Like of all the bells and whistles, this is it right here.

[Dove Cameron]

Did you always want to be a dad?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

I love that.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought I wanted boys really. I think as a guy that's what you think. You're like, I'm going to have a son. I'm going to teach him how to carve a piece of wood. I'm going to teach him how to throw a right hook. Teach him how you don't. It's in a car.

[Dove Cameron]

Then he's good, then he's.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I let him loose onto this plan.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm so grateful I didn't have boys because I actually don't want to do too many of that. I want to like go to Taylor.

[Dove Cameron]

Swift concerts, butterfly clips in the beard and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

Bait my nails and dye my hair. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

So much more fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so back to your career. So Liv and Maddie's enormous. But then Descendants comes along and that's its own juggernaut.

[Dove Cameron]

I think Descendants was bigger than liv and Maddie.

[Dax Shepard]

6.6 million numbers. The first. Yeah, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

I don't know why these stats are killing me. Go 6.6 million.

[Dax Shepard]

They don't change.

[Dove Cameron]

I can rely on them.

[Dax Shepard]

So Descendants is a whole nother wave. And now there's tons of singing and you'd already been in choir and I guess you start releasing music around Descendants time or before?

[Dove Cameron]

No, after. It's confusing. I did so many weird things in that time. I had a band with my then boyfriend from so Wild.

[Dax Shepard]

It had a weird name.

[Dove Cameron]

A girl and a girl in a dreamcatcher. I did not name it. And the band was not my idea. No, no, the band was not my idea. Neither was the name. And none of the music. That was something that was entirely his thing. And it's sort of like a fever dream. I forget all the time that that ever happened. So like I guess technically that was coming out around then. But no, I didn't sign with a label or start releasing my own shit until 2019. It was actually after we finished filming all three. Cause Disney had Hollywood Records that I think was with Capitol and that's what.

[Dax Shepard]

Out of Touch, Bloodshot Waste and so Good are all on.

[Dove Cameron]

No, I was never with Hollywood Records. No, Hollywood Republic. I think they were with Republic, but I was never signed to them cuz actually I did a audition to be signed to the Disney label. It was so funny. Cuz first of all I was very nervous but I was in like a little yellow dress and my short little blonde hair was in like pigtails and I was singing covers from a boombox. And their comment was we already have so many blondes. And so they didn't sign me cuz they had like Olivia Holt and a few other blondes that were on the channel at the time.

[Dax Shepard]

They were swimming in blondes.

[Dove Cameron]

They had their blonde quota filled and so they didn't sign me. And I remember being devastated. Devastated.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did an imagine dragons song, 2013 on top of the World.

[Dove Cameron]

That was in the pilot of Liv and Maddie. Nothing on Disney was ever my doing. I'm sure you know that. I think a lot of people don't. Disney would be like, this is your song. You're singing this week and then you go in on the weekend and then you shoot on a Monday, it gets done and dusted for you. Technically I'm on them, but they're not mine.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, got you. You do The Three Descendants at that time. Now you're in two wildly successful things. So who were you looking at that you were like, I'm grateful, but also I fucking want to be this person. What things did you want to be in and were you like, I want to be Emma Stone.

[Dove Cameron]

My film heroes. I loved Renee Zellweger, I loved Nicole Kidman, I loved Jessica Lange. But then also I was hugely obsessed with like Rocky Horror and all of these things that I truly shouldn't have been watching at a young age. And I was like, that's the kind of uncomfortable, campy, weird, left of center shit I want to be making. And honestly, still what I want to be making. This is kind of a page turn and I'm moving on way too quick. But I just did the show for Amazon that has got that weird little sticky, icky thing about it in the script.

[Dax Shepard]

What show is that?

[Dove Cameron]

Right now it's being called 56 days, which is the same title of the book. It's based on this best selling novel. Without saying too much because I'm sure that Amazon would have like a helicopter land on your roof and be like.

[Monica Padman]

Shut the fuck up.

[Dove Cameron]

I can't compare it to anything that I just listed because it's drastically different, but it's got the same sort of touch of unease.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. Do you like Severance?

[Dove Cameron]

I have never watched Severance. I know. I'm so in trouble for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah. I just need your SAG card before you leave.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's all. It's fine.

[Dove Cameron]

I'll just put it through the shredder.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's fine that you didn't see it, but I am going to have to get.

[Dove Cameron]

And Ben Stiller just texted me. He is furious.

[Dax Shepard]

He is not going to work with you ever. Okay. So then we'll just race through. You did schmigadoon. Acting, acting, acting. I want to talk about singing now.

[Dove Cameron]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Because while you're starting to release music and it's getting very well received, is there any battle between which one I want more, which one I want to focus on, which one's more rewarding. You have finite time and so you have to make some decision. And where on the scales are those two things?

[Dove Cameron]

So I had this super bullish, weird thing where I was like, film and TV is so fun and so is music. Why doesn't everybody try to do it? And then I tried to do both at the same time and I was like, I am going to be hospitalized.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

You simply can't. I wish I could Explain it because I was uneducated and I was like, I want to do both. And I would assume that many people think that it's very doable. I'm here to tell you I have tried to do both. You simply can't. A couple of reasons. One is that film TV is scheduled for you. Unless you are biggest name top 20, you can't be like, I love this film. I would love to shoot it in London in September after my tour. That's never going to happen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

So music is really more up to you, except festivals and shows. And the problem is that when you also have a large team who's doing music and film, the thing that ends up getting cannibalized is music. It seems the most flexible. But then I'm over here being like, I wrote a fucking album and it's not going to come out till when? And it's like, yeah, but you should really do this show. And it's like, I absolutely would love to do the show. We're also making an album and so you can't plan at all.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I guess we've seen people do both, but it's a spell of one, a spell of another. You don't see someone, the number one movie in America and they're on tour.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well.

[Dove Cameron]

And also that's the other thing is if you have a number one hit, it's not just you look at your phone and you go like, oh, it's doing well on Spotify. You have to promote that shit all over the world. You have to be performing, you have to be doing everything. A hit will take over your life. I had a hit song in 2022 and it was the only thing I did. It's crazy what a hit song will do.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm fascinated. Of course we interview musicians and the economics of it are so FAS to me that a hit equals. Now it's time to work and make money off this thing that you didn't make any money off of it being a hit opposite of a movie, which is like, it's a hit. Great. You got the money?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah. Who cares?

[Dax Shepard]

My next paycheck will be bigger. But this is. Oh, shit, this thing's hot. I gotta go everywhere now and perform this everywhere.

[Dove Cameron]

You are your own sort of one man show in the sense. Yes. You have people to do your hair and your makeup. Like everybody in the industry has their team, but like if you show up on a movie set, it's everybody else's job to pull off the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

If you Your job to pull off the thing, how they ask you to do it. Whereas with music, you are the director, you are the producer. Like, you are the little drummer boy in the front of the parade being like, go again. Go again. You are your own sort of planetary system. And I am someone who really runs everything with my music. I have an incredible team around me, but I'm not one of those artists that's like, I trust you. I do trust my team. But I'm also like, let me hear it again. Let me hear it through headphones.

[Dax Shepard]

It's gonna be the exact thing that's in your mind.

[Dove Cameron]

And I will be sitting in the studio being like, can we do a breath here? I'll go in down to the final last day, and I will be working, working on mood boards with video directors, and I will be scouting people.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you're the product in this domain, and in a movie, the movie's the product.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. And I'm so obsessive just because I really have an idea of what I want it to be. And that's part of the fun. My partner is always like, babe, you gotta chill out. You're gonna burn out. And I'm like, yeah. But it's that extra 10% of attention that, for me, as an artist, takes it from whatever I did my job to, oh, my God, I'm so proud of this.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it weird? Like, you won Best New Artist, MTV Video Music Award in 2020. 2022 Annual New Artist of the Year, American Music Awards in 2022. You'd been singing for 10 years. Is that weird?

[Dove Cameron]

It was weird in the sense that I actually had not been doing it for that long. The music I released initially was my partner's music and Disney's music at the time, my partner. Then the music after that. It wasn't music I was entirely writing because labels are very like, you came from Disney. You have a good following. We think you should go on this record. And I would rewrite some of it, but not really all of it. And it would be stuff that I kind of liked.

[Dax Shepard]

You made it just enough of your own to do it, but it wasn't your own.

[Monica Padman]

You didn' ownership.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Dove Cameron]

And I was extremely plagued by, I think this is who people want me to be. And I had done that for so long on Disney that I was like, I know how to do that. I guess I'll do that. And then I was enjoying it because it was new, but there was no onus boyfriend. The song that I wrote that went a little wild, it was the first song that I had ever written entirely top to bottom, from nothing. All of these other records that I know people have heard and fans have loved that. I'm sure I will get back on Spotify one day. They were originally written by other people. And then I sort of changed some lyrics to fit more my story just because I was like. I don't think I would say that. Or I was starting to experiment with writing. And that's what a lot of artists do, is they'll take records that other people have written and they'll put their own spin on it and change some things. Not everybody has the time to take six months to sit in the studio and only do that. So there's no hate or shame in that. That's pretty normal. And then some people, that's their whole gig. They're singer songwriters. That's what they do. I never really believed in myself enough to try to write a whole fucking song based on, like, a concept that I had had. And I one day was just like, maybe. And so I went into the studio to try to start to write, and my label really didn't think anything of it. They were like, have fun, babe. You know, like, dropping me off at the mall. They were like, okay. I wrote boyfriend pretty early on. I think it was the first one that I wrote in that time. Or if not the first, like, one of the first. And I randomly put it up on TikTok, because that's what the label is like. Everything's on TikTok. And I woke up to a crazy record breaking. Like, I had almost no TikToks up, literally. The TikTok was live photos that I had taken of myself that I turned in a video and just put together. Oh, no, it's not a good TikTok.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

And I guess singing about being bisexual or attracted to women, my sister knew all about it. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

She looks at my calendar.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

And she goes, oh, you're interviewing Dove today? And I said, yeah. Are you hip to Dove? And she's like, well, yeah, I watch all the Descendants with the girls. And then her song boyfriend's awesome. And she was telling me all about it. And I'm like, oh, this is interesting. This hit her radar.

[Monica Padman]

You're hitting a lot of different demos. We got those demos, which is great. My friend's mom is very into you.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In many ways.

[Dove Cameron]

We got a mom. Yeah. So anyway, it was the first time I'd ever experienced something that I had conceptualized, brought to life before you.

[Dax Shepard]

This didn't Exist and after you. This exists, Right.

[Dove Cameron]

And then kind of before that, I felt like I didn't exist. And then after this thing, I felt like I finally existed in a more authentic way in the world than I ever had before. And also coupled with this coming out of it all, which I was pretty, pretty afraid to do, I can tell.

[Dax Shepard]

You what my fear would be.

[Dove Cameron]

What is it?

[Dax Shepard]

My fear would be, oh, people are gonna think this is opportunistic.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, interesting. No, I mean, I got some of that after I came out, but it was actually. I had made a music video for another song that I'd released called We Belong. Wasn't a music video. It was like a visualizer because we had no money for a real music video. And there were all these faces being drawn and like embracing in cartoons. And someone sent it back to me and I realized that it was only representing. Representing heterosexual couples. Even though they were drawings, they were very like white heterosexual couples, boldly non inclusive. And so I just sent a note back being like, can we get some more representation in this cartoon?

[Dax Shepard]

Right?

[Dove Cameron]

Everything still remained white and outliney. It was just more varied in silhouette and men and women, and then women and women, men and men, androgynous looking. I was just like, this is weird. It doesn't really represent me. And also it was kind of a jarring POV for me where I was like, that is so hetero and narrow. And so. So I put that out. And then it was like the time when people were putting emojis to hint at what was coming. So when people were like, when's the new single coming out? And I was like, emoji, emoji. And then like the women loving women, emoji kissing. And then the song came out and it wasn't about being queer, right? And everybody was like, you're queerbaiting. This is horrendous.

[Dax Shepard]

It's queerbaiting.

[Dove Cameron]

Queerbaiting is when something is for the queer community and it's not quite, or you keep it in the hetero bubble, but you sort of give crumbs. It's a marketing technique that a lot of shows have been accused of, where they'll also give same sex people a lot of tension, hinting that there might be something there. And then they never fully go there because they're like, that's not really what it is. They just want to get the queer community and sort of make money, but.

[Dax Shepard]

Not commit to telling the whole storyline.

[Dove Cameron]

That's queerbaiting. So I had to basically go on Instagram live at the Time and be like, guys, I'm not queerbaiting. I'm queer. And I just wanted more fucking representation in the fucking cartoon. And the emoji was just hinting at the music video. I was so confused by it.

[Dax Shepard]

It wasn't a dog whistle for the queer.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dove Cameron]

And also at that time, I'd never said it publicly, but all my friends, all my family, they knew I was queer. But I just hated that I had to say, but I did.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess that's what I'm wondering. When does that paradigm start? Or it doesn't really need to be declared. Not that I care. I'm not like, someone's like, why do you got to tell me? That's not what I'm saying. It's just like, when will it not even be interesting to anybody?

[Dove Cameron]

We have a long way to go.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I do too.

[Dove Cameron]

We've made, like a little bit of progress within our own internety liberal bubble of people who are maybe queer community adjacent. And also just like within the queer community, there's some weird, weird discriminatory things. Even within the queer community, people are very heavy on labels. You have to define yourself. You have to know what it is. Also show us proof there's a lot of weirdness.

[Dax Shepard]

Purity tests.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. And also just if we have that issue within the community, I think we have quite a ways to go.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's the erroneous assumption, is that there would be some kind of unified harmony among a group of people because they have a single thing in common. It's like, well, no, that's just like one element of who they are. They're from every socioeconomic bracket, they're from every ethnicity. They're from every type of trauma background.

[Dove Cameron]

I had a feeling that people were going to say I wasn't queer enough.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Dove Cameron]

But I didn't really have an issue being second guessed because I truly was like, I know who I am. My hang up was more. My experience in my personal life was so liberal. Wonderful, beautiful, kind, protected, sweet, nurturing, supportive. And my experience of the outside world was so scary. I was also on TV in the 2010s. We were still like, she's 110 and so she's fat. People were being so crazy. It was tabloid time. People were just making shit up about celebrities. I was on the tail end of all that really ugly shit. My body type now would have been like, ooh, she's really, you know, it was a terrible time.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, just six years prior to you being on that show, they're asking 17 year old Britney Spears if she's had a breast augmentation in the middle, like a 60 year old teenager.

[Dove Cameron]

Or if she's still a virgin.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, everyone's asking her.

[Dove Cameron]

It's so crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

You're still a virgin.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But really, what about anal?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know it counts still, right? It counts. It was so bad. And so I just hadn't really recovered from that or thought that society would be like, rock on, you're queer. We kind of knew it. I wasn't expecting that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay, so now you're releasing more singles. You did? I'm afraid to say it. Is it alchemical?

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a weird word for me. Is that a real word?

[Dove Cameron]

Alchemy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I know alchemy is a word, but alchemical, when something is. I believe you. I never heard it.

[Monica Padman]

Nobody should hear it. No.

[Dove Cameron]

I'm needing to prove this to you right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Please do.

[Dove Cameron]

I'm feeling like this space is no longer safe.

[Dax Shepard]

Educate me.

[Dove Cameron]

You know the practice of alchemy when something is something that can transmute energy.

[Dax Shepard]

It is alchemical and it was volume one. There has to be a Volume two.

[Dove Cameron]

You would think, yes, logic would follow.

[Monica Padman]

Painted yourself in a box there a little bit, which is.

[Dove Cameron]

No, but it's kind of cunty just to have alchemical Volume one. It's like, where's alchemical Volume two? It's like in the vault, baby.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I make a pitch? Yeah, do another album.

[Dove Cameron]

Call it alchemical volume three.

[Dax Shepard]

Some completely different name, volume one. And just your thing is you call everything volume one.

[Dove Cameron]

That's.

[Dax Shepard]

So maybe we'll get to a volume two.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, it'll be like volume two. It'll be like 40.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, her thing is volume one.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's cool.

[Dove Cameron]

I thought it was funny to do Alchemical Volume one and three and then just be like, where's two? That's like you haven't heard it, Terry Taylor Swift of you. Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

You know, keeping things and then big releases.

[Dove Cameron]

That's true, that's true. I could learn. I went in to write what I thought was going to be Alchemical Volume two. But this crazy thing happened. I spent two years basically off the face of the earth and processing a lot of trauma. I. I found my dad's baby journal and that sounds like it's nothing, but I truly had all of this storyline in my head that my dad didn't like me, didn't love me, didn't ever see me, didn't ever know me. So I had all of this unresolved shit, probably with men in general. I went through, like a horrendous breakup. Just one of those. Like, if I could tell it, you'd be like, no, no. Like, it just kept getting worse. And I'm not going to talk about it, but it was something that really, truly, like, took me out at the. Yeah, I don't even know how the fuck it happened, if I'm honest. I went through two really bad long term relationships, kind of back to back. The first one was kind of all bad. The second one, it had its beautiful moments and then towards the end, it was just horrendous. And I was in this, like, weird situation where my friend had just passed, so I was coming off of antidepressants and I was trapped in Canada during COVID Couldn't leave. No one could come see me.

[Dax Shepard]

She's Louise.

[Dove Cameron]

And then we broke up and I was like, untethered. It was wild. And all the streets were shut down and it was just the most horrendous fallout from that relationship. And so we're glossing over some things. But if I were to say those two years, sort of 2020 into 2021, I was kind of listless. And that was when I dyed my hair, came out, wrote boyfriend, and then boyfriend came out. And then I was, like, kind of listless again because I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to follow up this song. I didn't write anything.

[Dax Shepard]

It can be a burden.

[Dove Cameron]

I was like, I don't even know how I did it the first time. And I also won all these awards prematurely, which then I was like, guys, are you fucking shitty?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm a fraud. I got lucky. And I don't know how to do this again.

[Dove Cameron]

So much imposter syndrome. And so then I found my dad's baby book and I basically swore off of dating anybody rest of 2022 into most of 2023. And I dipped into the deepest, darkest depression and I just fell off the face of the planet. Did a lot of internal work. And everybody was like, you gave up your career. You don't give a fuck. And I was like, I can't make myself get out of bed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we've got bigger fish to fry.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. I was like, I will get to it in a year. It kind of hit me all at once. My best friend was like, you have never stopped working. Like, yeah, but if I stop, everything's gonna find me. And then it did.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it always.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. And I was like, you, Veronica, you were fucking right. I don't know how I'm gonna get myself out of this. And so I just beared down, isolated myself, which is not something I recommend, but something I definitely did on instinct. Kept myself out of trouble, stayed in my house, and then had a lot of dark nights of the soul and just kind of dug, cleansed, dug cleansed. And basically purified myself in the craziest way. And then I met my partner.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, the Italian Stallion.

[Dove Cameron]

The Italian Stallion. And then I tried to write the album. Two months after we started dating, I wrote the first song about him. And it was very clear that the album was going to be a massive departure from anything I was doing before. I was like, why are we trying to Write a Part 2 When I was so depressed in those songs? And this one is like a fully different book. Why am I trying to make them be married? I can't.

[Dax Shepard]

Right? That's why. You're gonna release a new album called volume one.

[Dove Cameron]

And then you'll get depressed again.

[Dax Shepard]

It's life.

[Dove Cameron]

And then I'll get depressed again. And we got it scheduled. Yeah, I'm gonna be depressed probably from November to like March, I would say. So don't reach out. No, no, no. Honestly, I don't mean to make light.

[Dax Shepard]

But you're having tons of success with now you're happy falling in love song.

[Dove Cameron]

I really didn't expect that. I couldn't have written this album if I had not dropped off the face of the planet and learned a little bit more about who I was as an adult and as an individual.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Squarespace. Our old friends Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. We love Squarespace. We have our armchair expert website which was built by Squarespace and it's gorgeous. It's a great, great product. If you want to build a website that looks as snazzy as the armchair expert site, Squarespace. Squarespace makes it simple. With their collection of cutting edge design tools, you can build a bespoke online presence that perfectly fits your brand or business. Start with Blueprint AI Squarespace's AI enhanced website builder to get a fully custom website in just a few steps. Basic info about your industry goals and personality will generate premium quality content and personalized design recommendations. Squarespace also offers a complete library of website templates with options for every use and category. You can make a gorgeous website without any previous experience. Check out squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com and promo code DAX to get started today, we are supported by Peloton. Peloton has what you need to achieve your fitness goals. No matter why you got started, Rob, you're a peloton devotee day how often I am five times a week on that peloton. Five times a week. And what kind of changes have you noticed? I mean, my endurance, I can go longer after doing it started at 20 minutes and now I'm doing 45 minute sessions. Oh yeah, girl. Also, I noticed your legs and haunches look gorgeous. Peloton has a variety of challenging classes and training programs. Pilates, 5K, 10K, half and full marathon programs, yoga and strength training. Peloton will push you to achieve your goals.

[Monica Padman]

I sneak over to my friend who has a peloton. I sneak over there and I get in a workout and it's so nice. Yeah, it is also like elegant.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it is. Peloton has thousands of members whose lives have been changed by the workouts, experiences and community. Join them today. Find your push, find your power with Peloton. @1peloton.com we are supported by Skims.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I just got some new skim swag from their ultimate bra collection. I am loving it. They make such good bras. They have, you know. Well, you might not know this, but a lot of push up bras are like bulky and they have this like piece of it. I don't know, I just don't like them. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And there's wires and stuff.

[Monica Padman]

There's all kinds of accoutrements that I don't love. Yeah. But skims has one that I was like, oh, they sent me a push up bra and then I love it, of course. It's so great.

[Dax Shepard]

They can't miss shop. Skims ultimate bra collection and [e-mail] and SKIMS LA flagship on Sunset Boulevard. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop down menu that follows. In going through all the dad stuff, I mean, here's what I would hope for you. Did you come to accept? Oh, no. He most definitely loved me like crazy and he most definitely had a lot of connection conditions that had nothing to do with me.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. It's so funny because finding this baby book was really a pivotal thing in my human evolution timeline. I can't overemphasize enough what it did for me. This came straight out of that excerpt, which was something I apparently said to him on the changing table when I was two, like, barely verbal. We'll be friends forever. And he was like, hold on. And had to date it and time it. And he was like, we will be friends forever. But there was so much in there that was like, today you read the first word out of your newspaper. You're so smart.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, like. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

Stuff that I, I. I never got from him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

When he was alive. Stuff that he was too sad to tell me as I was growing up. And I think just knowing that he really did see me, the things that he would say about me, I was so shocked. Were things that were still true now. He was like, you're so intense. You're so independent. You're so fiery. You always stand up for yourself. You always apologize first. You always make sure everyone around you is okay. And I was like, how do you glean this from someone who's 5 and under? I don't know. You must be really paying attention.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He knew you. He saw you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. And so I think, like, God, I'm, like, fully crying. But I think there was something in that. I had always thought that there was something wrong with me, of course. And also the way that my dad really didn't love my mom very well. My mom and I were so similar. I was like, there. There's something wrong. He doesn't love us. He doesn't like us. And I really like and love him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

And so I think it really skewed my perspective on having to be something for so many people. I thought that I had to win love. I thought that I had to put up with dark things to be worthy to be good enough. Also, growing up with an unstable parent, you really start to sort of calculate and read other people's behaviors and triggers before they get triggered. And so you're walking on eggshells. You're trying to be the perfect everything.

[Dax Shepard]

You're trying to control the environment. Environment they're in so the bad thing doesn't set off.

[Dove Cameron]

And you start to do that in everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You become neurotic about your surroundings and apologetic.

[Dove Cameron]

Anyway, all of that is to say that when I read that, actually I was entirely wrong and he couldn't wait to see who I would turn into and truly saw me madly in love with you. Yeah. And in the way that I was with him, I was finally able to, like, put this massive rock down. Oh, I have Always been exactly who I am. I have always been seen as the person I am today. And really he didn't miss anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that's very sweet.

[Dove Cameron]

If he could love me like that, I can love me like that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

That also, I think was really what made my life what it is now is that fucking baby turtle.

[Monica Padman]

So, yeah, keep a journal for your kids.

[Dax Shepard]

Well then lets you enter into this Italian stallion situation a much probably healthier version of yourself.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What's different about an Italian?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's not what I'm saying.

[Dove Cameron]

Don't come out. You should not.

[Monica Padman]

I was going to say.

[Dax Shepard]

What were you going to say?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I was going to say what's different about him than the others?

[Dax Shepard]

How's he not part of the pattern?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dove Cameron]

Without bringing anyone else into it, my political answer, what my partner is that I have never seen firsthand is he is the most honest, beautiful, truly off the charts, intelligent, funny as fuck, kind, good hearted person. Why did you do this to me?

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry, I don't know how to talk about anything else.

[Dove Cameron]

Other things after this, both of our mascara is running. I also love this laugh, like you're in pain. You're like so crazy it borders on maniacal. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm right there with you, baby.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, one thing I read that you said about him, which I thought was really neat, is there seems to be an embrace of a dual masculinity, femininity that maybe is Italian, maybe it's just the group that you're surrounded by, but that they seem to have a great comfort in being both sides.

[Dove Cameron]

He's really in both of his energies. I would say he's really masculine and feminine in all of the most beautiful ways. I always like to say that I would have found him in any body. I truly think that he is the most beautiful soul. He's kind of shy and so actually I think he puts out this air of unapproached approachability.

[Dax Shepard]

Aloof.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. Which is really just. He's introverted. The thing that he said to me first, that then I started saying, because it's really true, is that I was really afraid of humans at the time that I had met him and I had really been convinced that something was wrong with me and I was not allowed to engage with the other humans for fear of either me inadvertently harming them or being harmed. And I was starting to get really introverted and weird. And when I met and when he asked me out, it was maybe only three or four weeks into Dating that we were crying and doing the deep dive, and he was like, I think I really needed you to come into my life because I was starting to disappear. That was exactly what it was for me. He's my proof that I can be here in the most beautiful way because I have the most incredible friends. But the way that he sees me is something that I've never experienced. And the way that we're best friends, and I think that's really one of the cornerstones of our relationship, is just. Just the way that we are so healthy for each other. We really are normal human beings first.

[Monica Padman]

It sounds like he's giving you permission to just be you.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, yeah. The main difference I really can stand on is that he wants me to be as big and expressed and healthy and whole and off the rails, whoever I am. He wants me to be that at.

[Dax Shepard]

A 10, very few guys are secure enough to let you be a supernova and not be afraid they're going to lose you.

[Dove Cameron]

And that was really my experience. He really couldn't be more the opposite. If I'm ever hiding in any way, he's like, what the fuck are you doing?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

He's my biggest amplifier. And that, to me, has just been so healing also just for, like, my inner child.

[Dax Shepard]

We love this kind of guy.

[Dove Cameron]

We love this man. This guy's all right, you know?

[Dax Shepard]

He's okay. He's good. He's good.

[Dove Cameron]

He's good.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a good guy. He's a bikini.

[Dove Cameron]

What the fuck is a bikini?

[Dax Shepard]

My best friend Aaron and I at times talk like mafioso, and we just thought, what if one of the family's last name was Bikini, but they had to sell it. It's like, don't worry, he's with us. He's Bikini and he's Bikini. It's just funny to say the word bikini.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, it's just so, like. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's awful.

[Dax Shepard]

This guy's bikini.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, oh, you don't want to go over there. The whole family, Bikinis. All right. This place is full.

[Dax Shepard]

The whole block is bikinis. You don't even go over there.

[Dove Cameron]

The guy parking your car. Bikini, bikini. The guy sipping your dish. Bikini.

[Monica Padman]

They're everywhere.

[Dax Shepard]

Watch your mouth.

[Dove Cameron]

So stupid.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to make sure I'm plugging the right thing. Too much, too much, too much, too much, too much. Great song. Watch the video. Great video.

[Dove Cameron]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me what's coming this year. Too Much is in charge right now.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. Too Much is running the show.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the Bell of the ball.

[Dove Cameron]

She's the bell of the ball. I have a new single coming out very, very soon. We're kind of vacillating between two, but I'm pretty sure I know which one. I want it to be one month. Is it March?

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

I have his new single coming out next month.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Dove Cameron]

And then probably just one more and then somewhere in there, the album.

[Dax Shepard]

You'll do the album?

[Dove Cameron]

We'll do the album.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Dove slash Chloe. Your friends call you Chloe. Your work associates call you Dove was her dad's nickname for.

[Monica Padman]

Well, what should we call you? What did we earn today? I want to go with something.

[Dove Cameron]

It's like Flores or Clove.

[Monica Padman]

Clove is good.

[Dove Cameron]

Clover. Oh, yeah. Get that vape mist in the atmosphere. Get that nicotine mist all up in the atmosphere. Usually it's nice smoky set environment.

[Dax Shepard]

This has been really one of my faves. This was so fun. Really. Oh, I love if I get a cry in. In an episode, like once a year I get a cry and once a.

[Dove Cameron]

Year I'm feeling so connected. I'm feeling so high vibe. No, I'm the same.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, the father daughter stuff's a real cheap shot, so pretty high getting some tears out of me. But this was incredible.

[Monica Padman]

This was so nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I really, really enjoyed this. You're wonderful. You deserve everything.

[Dove Cameron]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm gonna get your friend's gold tooth person.

[Dove Cameron]

I'm gonna get your friend's gold tooth.

[Dax Shepard]

The listener viewer will see me at some point in the near future with a gold tooth, and we will have you to thank.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, we're gonna know. This is where it all started.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. We'll come back.

[Dove Cameron]

Okay, I will.

[Monica Padman]

All right.

[Dove Cameron]

Just like tonight for dinner. Don't even come back bikini where you are.

[Dax Shepard]

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Hello? Happy fact check.

[Monica Padman]

Happy fact check. You've been gone.

[Dax Shepard]

We recorded on Thursday. Yeah, right.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Which normally is one second ago.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. But I went to Disneyland.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All day Friday. Went there Thursday night, then flew crack ass to Austin on Saturday, went to a sprint race, waved a checkered flag, then went to the race on Sunday, walked another 10 miles, then Monday, went to the track and rode all day, then flew back last night. So I feel like we haven't worked in three weeks.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I also feel. Feel like it's been a while, but.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you feel rusty for the.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I don't remember how to do it. It's for the opposite reason, though.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I. Last week I tried to get everything done, all the edits so that I didn't have to work on Friday.

[Dax Shepard]

What were you.

[Monica Padman]

I just didn't want to because I wanted the day. I needed a day.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. To relax.

[Monica Padman]

And I did end up having to do a tiny edit in the morning, but it was fine. I was. Oh. And I had a meeting, but I was done by 11:30.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Virtually a three day weekend.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And then you know what else I did on Monday?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I decided the same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, I'm gonna just have to do extra on Tuesday. But it's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I really needed it. I didn't really realize it, but I really needed like a little tiny chunk of rusty.

[Dax Shepard]

Compressed.

[Monica Padman]

Rusty. Just getting to decide what I want to do and not think, like. And at what point am I going to go open my computer and do X, Y and Z?

[Dax Shepard]

I think your skin is proof of it.

[Monica Padman]

I'm wearing new makeup.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Did you discover that in your leisure time?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. A new brand and. Well, actually, maybe it's not the makeup. Although today is the first day I'm wearing this new makeup. Okay. I have also been using vitamin C serum, which does brighten your complexion. It does, yes. And I used to use it, but I stopped all my stuff when I went to my new.

[Dax Shepard]

When you had your hard reset?

[Monica Padman]

When I had my hard reset. The goddess at Corrective Skincare. I, like, just stopped everything and just did my basic, basic regimen with her. But then I was like, ooh, I'm gonna dip my baby toe in the water. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You kind of wanted more action.

[Monica Padman]

Little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And so far, one day. No, no. I've had. I've done vitamin C for like a week.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Did you tell her you were going to.

[Monica Padman]

No, but she's cool. She's cool with it.

[Dax Shepard]

Do I need it?

[Monica Padman]

Vitamin C serum's great.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a. Yeah. Experts agree.

[Monica Padman]

They do. I mean, it's good to wear sunscreen if you're going to use vitamin C serum.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, your browns, I think that's for people that are white. Probably.

[Monica Padman]

No, but actually I am a little nervous. So there is this little thing on my face here and we don't think it's your pimple.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

So now I'm a little anxious that it is some sorry world that it is some something that might need removal.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Now if I need it removed, I did think this all through it was like, what if I have a band aid on my face for, like, two weeks?

[Dax Shepard]

That's cool. As long as you say, like, I got it. I got careless with a knife and stabbed myself. If there's some kind of cool resist on it. Yeah. Raccoon scratched you.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Dog bite. But, yeah, I had something removed. And I have a band aid.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Or this is a wart removal.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think it's a wart. I think it would be hypoplasia.

[Dax Shepard]

Cancer, hyperplasia.

[Monica Padman]

Look, is it okay, really, if I have to get this removed and I have to have a band aid on my face for two weeks? I think we're gonna have to figure something out.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't perform with a band aid on your face.

[Monica Padman]

I can't. I can't even perform in life. I'll have to be in my room for two weeks.

[Dax Shepard]

And you don't wanna. You don't wanna ruin one of your trips. Cause I was gonna say you could have it done right before spring break.

[Monica Padman]

I don't really want to go.

[Dax Shepard]

You just got to do what Sia does.

[Monica Padman]

Wear something over my face or your haircut. Okay. I like a wig, but it's in front of my face.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you. I don't think you would need to supplement your hair. Well, that'd be kind of plenty. To pull it in front of your band like this. What was it at the time? You had. You did pull your hair as much. Much as you could is.

[Dove Cameron]

You had.

[Dax Shepard]

Had a chemical peel.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Remember? And we had a hot gas. Oh, it was Chris Pine, right? Yes. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. That's right. I had a. It wasn't chemical.

[Dax Shepard]

And there was just, like a oval slit in the middle of your face.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I really. I wore my hair. I was, like, really wearing it, like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Real protective.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I'll. Okay. I guess I'll do that if I have a band aid. Maybe. I don't know. Oh, speaking of big revel. Since the last time we spoke. Oh, shoot. I think I may have cut it. We talked about hats. I do think I cut it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

We talked about hats. Did you make the cut? Because I don't wear hats ever. Right. But since we talked about it, I've worn a baseball hat twice.

[Dax Shepard]

You haven't. How do you like. How's it going?

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I like it because I feel like a different Monica when I wear it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. It's a whole identity.

[Monica Padman]

It's a completely different identity.

[Dax Shepard]

And what is that version. Version of Monica like. Likes baseball games.

[Monica Padman]

She's. No, she's very. What's this face over it?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she's over it.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's not. It's not so much over it as like. I'm just so chill.

[Dax Shepard]

By the way the look you just gave a woman gave me in a restaurant on Monday night.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

I was walking from the bathroom and I like caught eyes with this woman and this man and like, she was just like looking at me straight and I was just kind of looking at her back straight. And then all of a sudden she went like. Gave me a real weird eye roll and I was like, that was weird.

[Monica Padman]

What were you wearing?

[Dax Shepard]

Black T shirt and jeans. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And was it a fancy place?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no, no, no, no. It's. It was great. It's Mediterranean. It's right under the Soho House. It was very.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love that place.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you know that place? It. It's got like three letters.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

R. A B or R I, B.

[Monica Padman]

It's not it. I think there's an A in it.

[Dax Shepard]

A, A, R, B or.

[Monica Padman]

It had really good. Okay. That's the place that Erica, Jess, Laura and I fled to when we got kicked out of Barton Springs.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really? Abba Austin.

[Monica Padman]

Abba, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Aba. Yep. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Aba.

[Dax Shepard]

Aba. Always being, Always achieving, always be aiding.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we went there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Big, huge tree. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Gorgeous. Tasty as hell.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And then a very funny thing happened, which was I hung out with my friends Amy and Rory the whole time. Rory and I went to the both races together. And what's so nice is he lends me one of his cars while I'm in town.

[Monica Padman]

He did the last time we had.

[Dax Shepard]

A very nice car. Yes. When we were there for unboxed. He also lent it to me. And I find that to be one of the most touching things imaginable. Just cause I'm super into cars and I do not like loaning my cars out. And it's a very, very nice car.

[Monica Padman]

Very nice.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a Bentley Speed. And I was crazy. Like, it's a car I wouldn't personally loan out. Yeah. Or by myself, you know? It's so nice.

[Monica Padman]

It's gorgeous. And it's green.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's a sexy green.

[Monica Padman]

And we went to Dairy Queen in it and I was nervous.

[Dax Shepard]

I did again. Anyways, I love it. I feel so fancy driving around Austin in it and it really touches me. So we went out to eat on Saturday with his dad and stepmom and Angela and I was there for. Oh, Lambert's Our spot. So I had put my credit card down. I gave it to him as soon as I got there, and I was there before them. So the bill comes, I pay. He's furious. He really wants to pay.

[Monica Padman]

You can't pay. You got two steaks.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly. I knew I was going to eat like an asshole, and I did. And so what was really funny was he said, okay, tomorrow night, I'm paying.

[Monica Padman]

Okay?

[Dax Shepard]

And I said, said, okay, well, we'll see. And then he texted me in the day, if you don't let me pay, I'm not loaning you my car anymore.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, shit.

[Dax Shepard]

And I said, really good leverage. I'm definitely going to let you pay because I want to borrow your car. And then he decided last minute, I'm going to stay home with the kids. Just, Ang is coming, but you must let Ang buy. I was like, okay, okay. So we have this dinner. It's spectacular. There's a woman with a huge group of people. They're all from. From Minnesota. The manager comes over and says, this woman has bought your dinner and sent over a dessert.

[Monica Padman]

That's so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

So I was like, oh, my God, Ang, I can't wait for you to go home and say you still. You didn't get to buy. Even though I agree I didn't buy. But nor did they.

[Monica Padman]

That is the universe giving a big old wink.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yes. Very nice woman.

[Monica Padman]

That's so sweet. Shout out.

[Dax Shepard]

I gave her a big hug. Big, strong hug.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

That reminds me of two. Okay, that reminds me of something. It has been all long time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Right. Weeks.

[Monica Padman]

But pause on that. Pin in that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Let'S talk about paying and stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Monica Padman]

When I first started working for you guys, you know, I only had so much dollars in my pocket.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

And I was coming off a soul cycle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then. But we all would hang out as a group, and then we go to dinner, and I always did. I felt like this is ridiculous that they're paying every time, and I think it's bad. And then, you know, people would offer and I would offer. And I think sometimes when you're in the position of paying, you feel like it's a just, like, gesture of an offer. Right. But it's not like I.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me more.

[Monica Padman]

I think now I'm on sort of the other side of this. And I do also struggle because I want to treat my friends to things. I also understand what. When they're saying, please, please let me pay.

[Dax Shepard]

I know.

[Monica Padman]

And I. Cause I'm like, you're just I think you're just saying that cause you want to be a polite, good person. But actually, what I do know from me is you, if you let someone pay every single time, you end up feeling like a mooch.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And it feels bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Two things are happening for me, and it's a challenge. One is it was pointed out to me by Tom Hannah Johnson, very smart man who I think learned from a therapist.

[Monica Padman]

Great. We love therapy. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like you. You have to. Relationships have to be reciprocal.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And, and that's true. I get that. And it's just a bummer that it has to be seen as reciprocal. Just financially.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't though.

[Dax Shepard]

Because here's my dilemma. So I get it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

People want to. Well, a, they want to treat you and they want to want to reciprocate. But I have an ethical dilemma with it, which is like I get paid too much money.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It seems crazy that of the two of us, you're working your ass off. That's not to say that that's Rory and Angie situation. Just in general. If everyone's working hard, everyone's working hard. And if it's a lot less of a ding to me, I just feel ethically like this feels crazy. The example I gave my mom, because my mom tries to do this.

[Monica Padman]

I like this. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I said, mom, just imagine we're walking through the desert and you were allotted a half gallon of water and I was allotted a swimming pool.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And we're traveling through the desert and you want to share your water with me. It's nice. But I just ethically.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I get this fucking. It would be so wrong of me to take your water.

[Monica Padman]

I think that too. But what there is a risk of.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Is a power imbalance does start. Can start forming.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. But what blows is it's mostly in the mind of the person who's getting something for free. Which I get. Yes. There are certain personality types that it does lead to resentment. Hence Tom telling me that you got.

[Monica Padman]

To make sure you're. I think it in different for different people. Resentments on both sides.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You know, there can definitely be a. I've done so much for you and now. And you aren't doing the, you know, whatever. I, I think humans, even though we think we're bigger than that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Sometimes it slips in.

[Dax Shepard]

We're keeping score. I don't, it's tricky though.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think it's tricky.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, like, I, I, I'll notice, like, okay, I'm about to make Rory mad.

[Monica Padman]

Like you want to feel equal to anyone in a relationship. French, anything, you know? And so if one person. Again, it's tricky because I. I feel the same as you. I'm like, I am happy to pay because I also don't contribute in many other ways that these other people are contributing. So to me, it's all equal. But there is something about finances for people that make everyone go bonkers.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

I have a friend who does well, but also has. Has times of not being, you know, struggling a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And she is actually like, if I for out to dinner, she'll. She'll definitely offer. And I'm like, no. And she will just say, thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because she also understands, like, yeah, we just spent this dinner talking about.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Rough struggle.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah. That would be kind of crazy for me to be like, okay, yeah, we'll split it in half.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's just tricks. But money makes relationships complicated.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It really does. I hate that, but I think it's real.

[Dax Shepard]

I know what you'd like to go is like, oh, we're kind of like a group. One of us got this thing. I'm gonna share it, but it is complicated.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm trying to think when I was on the other end of it, I wasn't resentful, but I was judgmental.

[Monica Padman]

What do you mean?

[Dax Shepard]

Like, when I was broke, and maybe where I' experience it with is my brother would pay for everything, which was so nice.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he really took. He took me on vacations.

[Monica Padman]

And that's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it was super nice. And it was a nice luxury in those eight years of being broke, but. Cause I coveted money so much, and I didn't have it, I would be like, God, they're so wasteful. Like, the way they order food. So much stuff goes uneaten.

[Monica Padman]

That's interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I was often judgmental, which I really regret, because now surely if you were witnessing me, you would easily say that. Anyone?

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I. My thing is I'll order too much food for if people are over or whatever.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I act just like my brother does.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So I have to think. Yeah, some people are, like, probably maybe fine with it and appreciative and also judgmental. And that's fair because I was.

[Monica Padman]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's all based on our.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I remember walking to my brother's garage, and he had, like. He had so many snowmobiles, and I was like, what the fuck does he need all these snow? He can only ride one. And he's like, they're not fun unless I can have friends come ride and my friends don't own them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And yeah, I look at my garage and I'm like, yeah, there's three motorcycles I don't need. But when Aaron's here, we ride together. Or, you know, they're only fun if I can.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe you should apologize to him.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe I should. That's a good idea.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I don't know if he knew I was.

[Monica Padman]

I guess he's like. Now it starts indoor.

[Dax Shepard]

My sister in law occasionally listens, so maybe this would get there.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It. It's so much, it's so based on our, our pasts too. Because I don't, I don't think I had judgment over like excess, but I didn't grow up feeling like I didn't have enough.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So that's probably why.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I definitely felt like I need to be in equal here. That's my own back.

[Dax Shepard]

That's my own past stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, now back to my pen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Something bad happened. Oh, okay. You know, on the streets of places, there are people with clipboards.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Who are trying to sign you up for things.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. They're trying to sign you up for things. They are always like, it's always a nice cause. You know, I, I believe in these people's hearts.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

They have good hearts. Probably I don't know them, but I'm never gonna stop and sign a thing on a clipboard.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And in fact, when I see, when I like approach anyone with a clipboard, I get like this sense of dread.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yes. I think we all do.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I think it's pretty universal. And I think like, what are they?

[Dax Shepard]

Why it's even worse than someone panhandling. You've somehow like that. You've worked through the guilt of that years ago.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And those first, they want something. This is like they want a good change. Whether or not I agree with their.

[Monica Padman]

Right, they want change for them.

[Dax Shepard]

They're out there like volunteering.

[Monica Padman]

I know, I know. And they don't. All it would take is just a few minutes of conversation in my signature.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But I've, I've read some of those things. I'm like, I'm actually not alone aligned with this that's happened to me.

[Monica Padman]

But they know, they're smart. They're very smart because they know what to say. Right. They'll say.

[Dax Shepard]

They'll say, do you want reproductive rights?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Sign this non toxin apple. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Do you believe in trans rights? That's A big one where I'm like, yes, but I'm not. I don't want to talk to you. Like, it's like. It gets.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And so my normal method is just to, like, I just say sorry, and I just keep walking with my head down.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I say sorry, honestly, with a little bit of, like, anger.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Irritability. And Callie taught me. She said, I think a good way to do it is to say, not today, but thank you, and keep going. And I was like, that's polite. It also. It also says, I will just not today.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep. And then. And thank you. Really? So then you can't go back there if you've used that method. It can't be a place you visit every day.

[Monica Padman]

Well, if. Oh, you think they're going to be there every day?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Like, if you are going grocery shopping. Great. That's once a week.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But your normal Starbucks, you can't say next time because you'll see them the next. They're outside Maru a lot.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I've walked, like, four blocks out of the way to avoid seeing their brain on the.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So I. I practice. Okay. She taught me that. I was like, that's good. I'm gonna start adopting that because I don't like the way it. When I say sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

So a couple days later, I was on Larmont. Of course, there's clip orders. I don't remember what they were trying to get me to do, but I. I said, not today. Thank you. I got a little tripped up because he said, I like your pants.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, oh, thank you. And then he got, yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And he came in again, and I was like, oh, not today. But I'd already said it. So. That one wasn't great. That one wasn't great. That was my first attempt. And then on Friday, this past Friday, you're gonna hate this. Yeah. My day off, I decided to go shopping, obviously. And on Sycamore, and so I was walking. I see some clipboarders, but I don't know, they're actually not holding a clipboard this time, but they have, like, some sort of setup, you know? Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. A kiosk.

[Monica Padman]

Makeshift something. And. And I was like, oh, no. Okay, not today. Thanks. Like, I. I practiced in my head.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then I went. I started to walk past, and they said something like, do you like the earth?

[Dax Shepard]

Or you like breathing fresh air?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Or do you care about the environment? Or maybe it was like, do you want to protect something? It wasn't actually that me or, you know, that aggressive.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I said, no, not today. No. And then I got anxious and so then walking really fast and then the woman there was. It was a woman and a man. And the woman said, are you.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Wow. Huh.

[Monica Padman]

She said, are you Monica? And I said, oh, yeah, I am. And I'm still walking. I mean, this is a nightmare.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Now you start running and I like.

[Monica Padman]

My pace is picking up. And I was like, yeah. Oh, yeah, I am. And she was like, oh, my God, I'm a huge fan. And I'm walking still.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah, I can't stop. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's worse, right? It's worse if I'm like, oh, you're a fan. I guess I will come over and chit chat with you about the Earth.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, right? Oh, yeah. This is a really big tattoo too. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So, yeah. And I was like, oh, thank you so much. And I. I meant that I'm very grateful that this very nice person who's spending. I'm going shopping and this person's spending her day for the Earth.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And. And she is a fan of us. It's like this feels like opposite to you.

[Dax Shepard]

Really make it even more.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure she's a fan of me.

[Dax Shepard]

Gets through of me to.

[Monica Padman]

Well, now she. We probably lost her.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God, Monica, you should have signed. Just signed.

[Dove Cameron]

Fuck.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't have to. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This was. This was actually a part of it. I had parked on the street where it was gonna start towing in 40 minutes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you got a time clock.

[Monica Padman]

I was on a clock and I hadn't even gotten to the store yet.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. You didn't have time to get political or you didn't have time to be an activist?

[Monica Padman]

I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It was a shopping. It was my free day.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Anytime Fitness. We're all about striving to be the best version of yourself, both mentally and physically. Moving your body is a great way to build strength in both areas. If I had to lose anything in my routine, the very last thing I would lose is my physical fitness routine.

[Monica Padman]

And, you know, I'm now lifting heavy weights.

[Dax Shepard]

You've even got some heavy dumbbells.

[Monica Padman]

I've got some heavy because I have to get my bone density.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Tip top. Because perimenopause ladies.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. You. The. The more fit, the stronger you can be, the better the rest of your life's going to Be.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

To get stronger mentally and physically, go to Anytime Fitness. You'll get a personalized training, nutrition and recover, all customized to your body, your strength level and your goals. You'll get expert coaching to optimize your results anytime, anywhere in the gym and on the Anytime Fitness app. And you'll get anytime access to 5,500 gyms worldwide, all with the right equipment to level up your strength gains and your life. So get started@antime fitness.com. that's anytime fitness.com. i just say very happy. I'm not sorry.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I just go, oh, no, thanks.

[Monica Padman]

Like, literally, outside of Skylight Books, they say, do you. Do you care about the kids and Pat Children in Palestine.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Monica Padman]

It's so like saying, no, thank you. You've said, no. It feels like bad energy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Right.

[Monica Padman]

And that's why I just say, sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm so sorry. I'm a bad person.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's the.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm a bad person.

[Monica Padman]

It's the subtext.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Any who.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I hope they clean that up. Soliciting all these signs. All these places have signs that say.

[Monica Padman]

I think I should start my own. That's to get these clipboarders gone. Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

That would be ironic. Yeah. Petition to get rid of a measure, state measure to get rid of you can't hold.

[Monica Padman]

I feel bad ever. They're doing such. Everyone's so they're good people. Like, I recognize that, but I. I just don't. I think, honestly, I feel pessimistic that signing this thing is going to do anything for the children in Palestine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I. What I want to say is like, I've already. I already support them. I've already given money. I've already done my part on sides. So don't come over here also, you guys, you clip orders over here. I'm doing my part.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Signing this to me means nothing. And all you've done is make me so mad.

[Dax Shepard]

Huh?

[Monica Padman]

At this cause now. Now I'm mad at your cause right now.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't like any of the kids of the world.

[Monica Padman]

I hate the children of the world.

[Dax Shepard]

Now I'm glad I'm not. I'm not getting that much clipboard traffic.

[Monica Padman]

Thank goodness you don't walk very much.

[Dax Shepard]

It does make me remember, though. You know in the airport before, back when you could go through security without a plane ticket pre 9 11, there were all kinds of people working the airport and there is a whole legion of people that come up and they would hand you a little piece of paper and you look at it. Maybe it was lightly, like a present. Like it was a tiny little trinket. And then you'd open up and it would say, like, I'm deaf and mute. They're working. They used to work lax, hard. And I remember being like, maybe Chris and I there, and, like, someone's coming up with a little trinket, and I'm like, don't take it. Don't take the trinket. Don't. Yeah, because that one feels like. Also you're gonna get a. A hex, or what do you call it?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly? Is that a spell on you?

[Dax Shepard]

You might get a spell on you if you take the trinket, you've touched it, and you don't give them money.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dove Cameron]

Is that, like.

[Monica Padman]

Is that our generation, we, like, saw some movies or something that taught us.

[Dax Shepard]

About spells or something slimmer or something. That's a. Thinner. Thinner.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that it?

[Monica Padman]

It's not Spielberg, but I don't know who it is. But Jess talks about it all the time.

[Dax Shepard]

King. Stephen King.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

He gets a. What'd you call it? It's not a hex.

[Monica Padman]

No. A scary man will touch you and say thinner, and then you get really thin and you disappear.

[Dax Shepard]

A curse. A curse.

[Monica Padman]

A curse.

[Dove Cameron]

A curse.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's so funny that you bring that. I've never seen it, and I had never heard of it, but one time, remember, I was at. Again, because I walk so much. I was at a stop light, ready to cross. An unhoused person touched me.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. I remember this. Yes. Cause it kind of caressed your back.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And it was really creepy, and I really didn't like it. And then when I told Jess, he said, oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

So that was your big update?

[Monica Padman]

That was a big update of mine. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The clipboards. Yeah, I like it. It was a good one. But you told me you had an update. I just wanted to make sure that I got.

[Monica Padman]

I do have another update.

[Dax Shepard]

You have another update.

[Monica Padman]

Well, but do you want to tell me any of your updates?

[Dax Shepard]

Let me see if I wrote anything down in my fact check category. Oh, you know, I've actually formed a. I encourage you to do this. I made a notes folder called Bucket list. Oh, have you actually had a bucket list? Have you ever actually written down a bucket list list? No, but I thought it was a good idea. So I've done. I've.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, what's on it?

[Dax Shepard]

Isle of Man. That's a motorcycle race on the Isle of Man. It's crazy.

[Monica Padman]

The one you taught us about. Here you Said people die.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Every year someone dies. I gotta go to that. That Iowa bicycle ride that you cross Iowa.

[Monica Padman]

Do you need to be in it, or can you just go?

[Dax Shepard]

I'll probably do. There's a day before the race, maybe Saturday or Friday. 8. Where you can ride the course.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It has a crazy name, but I would like to ride the course and then spectate for the madness.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

The bicycle ride across Iowa.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

That sounds so fun.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

And then the great loop on a boat, which I've talked about before.

[Monica Padman]

Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

6,000 mile.

[Monica Padman]

Of course. All of yours are transportation oriented.

[Dax Shepard]

King of conveyance.

[Monica Padman]

King of conveyance.

[Dax Shepard]

The king and conveyance. Oh, no, I haven't written anything down.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Well, yesterday.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I relearned mahjong. Rachel, Anthony, Allison and I used to play mahjong a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Way back in the day. And now it's, like, hip. Like, everyone's playing mahjong.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think Kristen went to, like, a.

[Monica Padman]

Mahjong learning Kristen's mahjong thing.

[Dax Shepard]

And there's different countries of origin versions of mahjong.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. American mahjong is. Is the one that like Jewish women.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Play.

[Dax Shepard]

All right.

[Monica Padman]

And that's the one that's taken off.

[Dax Shepard]

But there's an Asian one, too.

[Monica Padman]

It's originally Chinese. Mahjong is. But this is different. And it's so fun. But I had forgotten. I completely forgot how to play. But I felt, like, annoyed that it was back in. It's like in the Rogue, and I was pre.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So is it more complicated than spades?

[Monica Padman]

It's so complicated.

[Dax Shepard]

So complicated.

[Monica Padman]

But in. In such a fun way. I think you'll like it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

You should learn. I mean, there's parts you're not gonna like because there's a lot of pomp and circumstance, like pageantry. Yes. There's a whole way of, like, the way you set up. And then you, like, push your wall out. And then the way you deal is very specific. And then you do this thing called the Charleston, which is passing and. Yes. And then you have a booklet. It's a new one every year. The National Mahjong League puts out a new card every year.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

And so each card has, like, many, many lines of variations of what you're basically trying to make on your wall. And it's so fun. And it.

[Dax Shepard]

And you play with tiles.

[Monica Padman]

Tiles, tiles. And obviously, I bought a set.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Really nice set.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But actually, mine's a little cheeky, like.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, playful.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. The winds have. Winds are a part. One suit ish Of. Of the tiles. Mine have mermaids on them.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, fun.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So anyway, I. I was really reinvigorated by it. I didn't win. We played two games, and I. I did not win, so that was hard. That is not sitting well.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Rachel grew up playing mahjong. Her. She'd been playing for 27 years.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. This is like the girls in spades. They'll be unstoppable.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. And her mom plays in tournaments and stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

And so she's the one that taught me. And then she taught us yesterday, which was really fun, but also what I think I want to do. I feel bad because Amy listens to this show religiously. Shout out. Hi, Amy. Amy was there last night as part of the learning group.

[Dax Shepard]

But who hosted the learning group?

[Monica Padman]

Me. Oh, I did. With. It was just Laura and Amy and Rachel.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

And then I think what I'm gonna do to get ahead is hopefully have another group.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, an accelerated group.

[Monica Padman]

No, just so that I. I'm playing double.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And with. With another. With Elizabeth as the teacher. So just in case they're. Rachel and Elizabeth have different techniques. I want it all.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You're committed to getting really good at it.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. I guess I should learn. I'm. I'm in the process of learning bridge, which our lessons are, like, every two months, and we all forget who's teaching. This nice gentleman. Oh, yeah. He's a professional bridge player and teacher. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But we forget because we've only done two or three lessons in over six months.

[Monica Padman]

That's not good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You gotta hit it much harder than that.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, that's my update.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful.

[Monica Padman]

That's my big update. Okay. This is for Dove.

[Dax Shepard]

Ah.

[Monica Padman]

Great episode.

[Dax Shepard]

What a lovely episode.

[Monica Padman]

Beautiful. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I love her.

[Monica Padman]

Love her.

[Dax Shepard]

I love him.

[Monica Padman]

For people who don't remember, that was Seth.

[Dax Shepard]

Seth's daughter.

[Monica Padman]

Seth's daughter.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Seth Green's daughter.

[Dax Shepard]

Seth Green's beautiful. Beautiful doesn't even describe it.

[Monica Padman]

She's sparkly as hell.

[Dax Shepard]

She's a fairy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She's like Tinkerbell.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But with red hair. I don't know what color hair Tinkerbell had. Probably blonde. They like to put those sprites and those fairies make them blonde.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Perpetuate that.

[Monica Padman]

Bl. Have more fun because they're fairies.

[Dax Shepard]

They make wishes and dreams come true.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, Bloomers, Bloomers. Where do they originate? The bloomer. The Turkish dress, the American dress. This is kind of a ding ding, ding da. Mahjong. It Is locations or simply a reform dress are divided women's garments for the lower body. They were developed in the 19th century as a healthful and comfortable alternative to the heavy constricting dress worn by American women. They take their name from their best known advocate, the women's rights activist Amelia Bloomer.

[Dax Shepard]

Now is it just a skirt or there's pants in it? There's legs, there's legs, there's legs. It's like, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

A bloomer is like shorts. Yeah, okay. The name Bloomers was derogatory and was not used by the women who wore them who referred to their clothes as the reform costume or the American dress. The Bloomer costume caught on among some white middle class women who sought dress reform as an integral part of the fight for women's equality in the mid-1800s. So that's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

My thing would be back then you didn't have washing machines. You're still hand washing everything. The notion of splitting up the dress into two pieces sounds smart because what if the top got dirty but not the bottom? Or vice versa?

[Monica Padman]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

You said add in a little something, you could just wash the bottom. Yeah, but the top remained clean.

[Monica Padman]

True.

[Dax Shepard]

It seems like it cut. It would cut laundry down.

[Monica Padman]

That's true. What did they use? Just regular soap?

[Dax Shepard]

Lye, I think. Which is also what you can decompose a body with. You put a body in a barrel, don't teach lye. And then you open it up in a couple hours and it's just jello. Ew. No. I don't know what it is.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God. God, that was so. I like saw it. I saw it. You saw a jello body?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Does having lots of drink me drinks around you mean you have adhd? No, not necessarily.

[Dax Shepard]

It doesn't.

[Monica Padman]

It could be the result of many things. A busy lifestyle, forgetfulness unrelated to adhd, or simply a preference for having multiple. Multiple options available. Okay, the gooey duck, which she brought up. They gooey duck hunt or whatever. Gather. Rob, can you bring up the pick? It's a wild looking disgusting clam.

[Dax Shepard]

Would you eat it?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Having seen a photo, no.

[Monica Padman]

And I like seafood, but not this seafood. Native to the coastal waters of the eastern North Pacific Ocean from Alaska to Baja, California, teeming with. Oh my God. Typical lifespan of 140 years.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. You could be eating an animal that's 130 years old.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that feels. That feels unethical.

[Dax Shepard]

It does.

[Monica Padman]

Ew, gross.

[Dax Shepard]

It looks like a white elephant penis.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, it really looks disgusting.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't understand. For the listener, the. The clamshell only covers about 33% of this thing's body. I don't even understand.

[Dove Cameron]

Ew.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. That's so phallic. And the clam looks. The shell looks like balls in this photo.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

This looks like a cowboy ball set. Cowboy.

[Monica Padman]

Very penisy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. I can't imagine eating this. So good for everyone who eats it. And then what's inside a big ball?

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's the clammy part. I think that's the gooey.

[Dax Shepard]

It looks like the skin is peeled off. That's that bottom part.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Revealing all that tender, delicious.

[Monica Padman]

It's.

[Dax Shepard]

That one's uncut and it's called a gooey duck.

[Monica Padman]

Or that one's cut. Sorry. Excuse me. That one's circumcised.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, man. God bless.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What do you put on that thing? Wasabi or something to kill the.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, if it's. If it's clams, I guess you boil.

[Dax Shepard]

Them, maybe slice it into tiny. Yeah, you. You blanch, boil it and then you enjoy it raw or sashimi. Or cook it in various ways, like stir frying anyone. Putting it on a hot dog bun. Eating it like a tube steak.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, this says the shaft can.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Monica Padman]

Can be 1 meter 3ft.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, definitely elephant size.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's the largest burrowing clam in the world. And as we said, one of the longest living animals of any type.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Oldest has been recorded at 179 years old.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. I feel like it's not good to eat these. You could be cutting.

[Dax Shepard]

What's better? To eat an Animal that had 150 year life or to eat one that has only got a year and then you rob half of it?

[Monica Padman]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

Probably the former. We'd agree. If someone was eating humans.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It'd be a lot better if they ate our hundred year olds than our children.

[Monica Padman]

I guess that's true. But you're also. If you ate a 50 year old gooey duck, you're cutting mid century. Yeah. Like you're really prematurely robbing it of a hundred years.

[Dax Shepard]

120 years. Oh, boy. Well, we don't have to deal with this because we're not going to eat any gooey duck or people anytime soon.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Disney's music label, Disney Music Group is home to Hollywood Records.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

That was a fact. Queerbaiting. Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but do not depict same sex, romance or other LGBTQ Representation or this as harassment, abuse or targeted provocation of gay people.

[Dax Shepard]

Do we want to discuss if I'm queerbait or not?

[Monica Padman]

If you want. Do you think you are? You're not queer. Queer bait.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not like that's what that was a derogatory term in elementary school.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, queerbait. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Queer bait. It's so weird.

[Monica Padman]

So weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Because it's not even. You're just saying you're attractive to queers.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but back then, anything having to do with.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, anything. Anything gay adjacent to gay was.

[Monica Padman]

Remember when Gap had. Do you remember this? And maybe that was just my gen for a while. Like wearing Gap. Gap stood for gay and proud.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, oops.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, so it's like you weren't like if you wore that, people would say gay and proud boy.

[Dax Shepard]

How as a company do you like combat that? Combat that, include everyone and also go, we're not a strictly gay.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Yeah, but that was before. Now isn't that so funny? Just not an issue. Right Not. Thank God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Speaking of real quick. What I am noticing. Maybe we already talked about this. If we did, I'm really sorry, but it's so, so funny to me watching er. What was so important back then? And what was like top of mind, fear wise.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What was going on?

[Monica Padman]

Aids.

[Dax Shepard]

Aids.

[Monica Padman]

There are so many episodes about aids. Really, so many storylines.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Che Che. This four year old boy died of aids. It was horrible. He was so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a very famous clip of Walker, Texas Ranger, the Chuck Nora show. You didn't see it, but you know exactly what it is.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And I want to say it's Haley Jo Ozment is the guest star. He's a little kid.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's this clip that goes around my Instagram all the time. And it's Walker and he's with the little Haley Joe Osment. And they're talking two other men. And Haley goes, yeah. And then Walker and I really had a long talk and that's when I told him I have aids. It's like how dare they? How dare they make this scene? It's like four cowboys. Like, I don't know.

[Dove Cameron]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, good for them for trying.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean. Oh, do we have it? Oh my God, Rob, you're incredible. We're coming, we're coming to clip show and I like it. Are we gonna have volume is the question.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, there's a woman involved.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, maybe I misremembered who. Who he's talking to.

[Monica Padman]

It makes sense if it was a woman. Fine. And it's little visitor. Now I don't want you always. How you say it in Cherokee?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, pardon my fresh, but I'll be damned.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God. Walker told me I had eight.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh well, even better. Walker told me I have aids.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

How on earth did that fall under Walker's purview?

[Monica Padman]

He was a big non sequitur dolce.

[Dax Shepard]

They were like talking about Cherokee and the boys picked up some other language. And then Walker told me I have aids. What if he just guessed they're not based on any lab results.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Little man, I think you have aids. Just judging from the way you walk.

[Monica Padman]

And what year was that? 90s.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, 90s. 90s was a really, really big time for AIDS.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think I'm imagining Gen Z and stuff. Like when I was in 11th grade or 10th grade, turned 16, Magic came out as having AIDS or HIV.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And a book and it was, oh my God, he's gonna die. And I know everyone's gonna die. That gets it. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's so different, so diff. I mean, do kids even know. Know about AIDS now?

[Dax Shepard]

My kids don't ever bring up aids.

[Monica Padman]

I doubt they. I mean I was so scared of aids. It was in my prayer.

[Dax Shepard]

It was.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Even though you didn't do any of.

[Monica Padman]

The things I didn't know, I just knew it was a scary thing. So part of it was no cancer, aids?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I remember on the other end reading a article that said of the population in New York that had had HIV.

[Monica Padman]

Uh huh.

[Dax Shepard]

92% were either gay men or intravenous drug users.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So I used that to regulate my fear of it because I was out on the street.

[Monica Padman]

Was an intravenous drug user.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I was never an intravenous drug user.

[Monica Padman]

You never did?

[Dax Shepard]

I never shot any heroin. No. Thank God.

[Monica Padman]

Thank God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I really.

[Dax Shepard]

I might not have come back from that. Yeah, no, no intravenous drug use for me, thank you. Lots of shit. Sharing dollar bills with blood on them. Hepatitis was in the cards for me, but not God, I guess.

[Monica Padman]

Hiv. Yeah, you could have got hiv, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

It's really unstable though. It dies when it hits the air. Pretty easy. Like way easier than we were led to believe at the beginning, but yeah. Cause I would have sex with someone, not wear a rubber and I'd be convinced I had HIV for two weeks and then I'd go get tested and I didn't.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And at some point I had to get my hands around this fear.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I based it a lot on that. Article.

[Monica Padman]

I mean. Yeah, I. And for a while, remember, there were, like, rumors. You could just get it from drinking out of someone's glass at the very beginning.

[Dax Shepard]

They didn't want kids in pools. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I know.

[Monica Padman]

And then. Then this huge stigma. I mean, didn't definitely, definitely did not help with. Gay stigma.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. No.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Big aids. You know, I don't think he'd mind me saying it. I know I told you, but I think so. On one of the episodes, there was. There was a boy, a young man, who had hiccups, and.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And he saw it was a side effect of hiv.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he had hiccups. And then it was really fine. It was not Shalon. It was nothing. It was silly. He was getting married. His fiance, she was there, too. Everything.

[Dax Shepard]

This was an ER episode. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And then. And then they just do a scan just to. It's fine, but we're gonna do a scan. And then there was some thing, like some lung thing or liver something that meant he had aids. Oh, and Jess has this hiccup issue.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, he does.

[Monica Padman]

And so I saw this, and I really was like.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you call him immediately?

[Monica Padman]

Well, it was at night, and I thought, I need to sleep on it, because I think this is gonna be a hard conversation. But I also think I've noticed you have hiccups. I'm like, what if I was meant to watch ER to save Jess?

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

And so the next day, I did call him. I don't normally call him on the phone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And he was probably scared. Yeah, well. And he should be said, hey, you know, it's not a big deal, but I just. I was watching this episode, er, and this happened, and it was aids. And he just, like, was quiet. And then he said, I get tested. I said, okay, well, just make sure you're continuing to get tested.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Monitor those hiccups.

[Monica Padman]

Anyhow, are you queerbaiting or what?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, we have talked about that. I flirt with men and women.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you flirt with everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. But I don't think I'm queerbaiting.

[Monica Padman]

I don't either, but I'm not. I'm not the recipient, so I can't say. Maybe some. Some people might say that you were.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, stop flirting with me unless you want to steal the deal.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I don't want to steal the deal. I just want to flirt.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but it's. It's like, maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you lost that right when you got married.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't. No, I don't think so. Also, it does make me think of Sedaris. Chapter we were listening to. This is now the funnest thing I think I told you. We now listen to Sedaris at night in bed.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's talking about every doctor he knows has pulled things out of people's rectum, as we've learned from the nurses we've interviewed. And he says most people claim it's from falling down on something. Now, I'm clumsy and I've fallen a bunch of times, and I've never stood up and had a candle in my ass. In fact, I'd argue that I could probably fall down every flight of stairs in the World Trade center holding three candles and a baseball bat. And I'm pretty sure at the bottom I wouldn't have any of those items up my ass.

[Monica Padman]

That is very funny words.

[Dax Shepard]

It so much better.

[Monica Padman]

But God, he's funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, is he funny.

[Monica Padman]

He's brilliant. All right, well, that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

Shout out. Love shout out to Dove. That was an awesome episode. I liked it so much.

[Monica Padman]

Me too. I hope everyone listens. And if you listen, pass it on.

[Dax Shepard]

Pass it along forward. It would be a fun one. Watch on YouTube if you want to see me cry.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's your kink. You're like Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, true.

[Dax Shepard]

You like a nice crap cry. All right. Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining one Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.