Edward Norton Returns Again

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Episode: Edward Norton Returns Again

Release Date: July 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode features Academy Award–nominated actor and filmmaker Edward Norton returning to Armchair Expert. The conversation weaves through Norton's environmental activism, the influence of his visionary grandfather, his approach to acting and career, deep dives into his new film "The Invite,” and candid reflections on creativity, memory, relationships, and humility. Dax, Monica, and Edward explore the internal and external pressures of success, the mechanics of mimicry in acting, creative risks on set, and personal anecdotes that reveal their mutual admiration and vulnerabilities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Edward Norton’s Environmental Initiative

• Norton has become deeply involved in an environmental project: a barge company cleaning ship emissions.
  • Crane Details: The barge utilizes a 15-story crane originally for concrete delivery (04:17).
  • Pollutants Targeted: The system “hovers” above ships and captures nitrous oxide, sulfur dioxide, and particulate matter, not CO2—“That’s what gives you lung cancer” (04:48, Norton).
  • Impact: The project sucked up the equivalent of emissions from 65 million cars in one year (05:57).
  • Context: Norton explains there are still enormous health costs from port emissions, especially in California (05:38).

2. Family Heritage and Visionary Grandfather, James Rouse

• Influence of Grandfather: Jim Rouse was a renowned city planner, known for urban development/popularizing the idea of the food court and revitalizing city centers (07:43–11:54).
  • Rouse predicted suburban sprawl/urban decline in the ‘50s–‘70s, shaped redevelopment in major cities, and was known for his eccentric, unpretentious personality.
  • “Among the many things he did, he gave Frank Gehry his first commissions.” (08:39, Norton)
  • “He parked cars and hustled pool to pay for night school … never took his Navy pay because he won so much money playing poker.” (08:49, Norton)

3. Norton's Career Philosophy: Art, Autonomy, and Perception

• Dax admires Norton’s loose grip on his career choices—turning down massive paydays and only taking roles that truly interest him, suggesting enviable self-assurance (12:27).
• Norton counters that internal anxieties remain:
  • “No, just society. We don’t make you be compliant with zero CO2, but we do have [regulations on other pollutants]. This is super interesting because even the Trump EPA regulates nitrous dioxide, sulfurous dioxide, because it kills people.” (05:08, Norton)
  • “Don’t think for 10 seconds that I am capable of shutting off entirely the part of my brain that goes, why didn’t I get sent that? … Or I’d love to have read that.” (17:15, Norton)
  • Early Struggle: Norton tracked every expense early in his career to ensure survival in NY on $11,000/year (19:36).
• On artistic motivation:
  • Monica: “When there’s a lot of struggle, it’s going to cause a little bit more of like a tight, tight grasp.” (17:27)
  • Norton: “I don’t think I’m as relaxed about how things are going as you think I am.” (18:58)

4. Actor as Shapeshifter: Norton’s Approach to Performance

• Two Actor Types: “Some are iconic … and then there are people in the Joseph Campbell sense … the shapeshifter.” (22:01, Norton)
• Norton enjoys the investigative aspect of acting and has never been certain that past successes guarantee future ones:
  • “I don’t feel that having done anything well earns me a sense of certainty that I’m going to do it well on the next one. I’m always like, this one might be the one I fuck up.” (23:04, Norton)
• He is a “mimic,” capable of physically and sonically channeling others—alongside peers like Kristen Bell (26:05).

5. On “The Invite” & Collaborative Creativity

• Origins: Norton tried to secure remake rights to the Spanish film “The People Upstairs” (“Sentimental”), but after losing out, serendipitously became involved when Olivia Wilde picked up the project (39:26–40:52).
• Praise for Olivia Wilde's Direction:
  • Wilde shot the film in page order and heavily encouraged cast-driven character development (47:06).
  • “She gives this performance in the film that’s worthy of Jenna Rollins or Diane Keaton at their very, very best … yet she directed us.” (45:07, Norton)
  • “I haven’t experienced a director investing trust in the cast at this level ever.” (48:16, Norton)
• On a pivotal dramatic turn in the film:
  • Norton’s big monologue was a surprise for Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen, filmed live for authentic reactions (52:00–53:51).
  • Seth Rogen’s improvised, rude response to the monologue was “one of the funniest improvisations” (53:17).

6. Relationships, Intimacy, and Esther Perel

• Connection to Esther Perel: Norton reflects on their conversations about intimacy, and how both the film’s themes and his friendships (and marriage) circle around the realities of long-term relationships and personal growth (55:22–57:24).
• The group discusses open relationships, the early “honeymoon phase,” and questions about long-term viability (57:54–59:22).
• Relevancy of the Film: Both “The Invite” and movies like “Force Majeure” provoke intense post-viewing conversations between couples, revealing underlying dynamics (62:21–63:17).

7. Memory, Neurodiversity & Age

• On Having a Precise, Auditory Memory: Norton distinguishes between actual neurodivergence and the romanticization of it for ordinary quirks. He self-identifies as hyper-retentive and describes his method of memorizing lines and experiences as largely auditory (69:06–72:06).
  • “I have a very strong and precise memory to the point where I can say most of the lines of the movies I’ve been in.” (71:27, Norton)

8. Creative Humility, Maturity & Joy

• Both Dax and Edward reflect on how aging and repeated creative collaboration have shifted their values from “flexing” conviction to being “horny for humility” and making themselves available to discovery and uncertainty (77:17–78:36).
  • “Maybe if you’re lucky and keep getting to be creative … it’s more discovery than it is flex.” (78:29, Norton)
  • “[You] get to take the world and what you’ve taken out of it, and you get to pull it into the work and kind of communicate it in another way.” (57:21, Norton)

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Notable Quotes

• “The emissions off the ports in California drive like $6.5 billion of respiratory health costs in the state every year. Like cancer, asthma.”
  — Edward Norton (05:38)

• “You have among the loosest grasps of anyone I’ve ever met with their career. … Your seeming confidence to be patient. Your willingness to wait till it’s something that you want to do.”
  — Dax Shepard (12:22)

• “No actor turns off the actor’s narcissistic brain. … Don’t think for 10 seconds that I am capable of shutting off entirely the part of my brain that goes, why didn’t I get sent that?”
  — Edward Norton (16:48–17:15)

• “There are people who are in the Joseph Campbell sense … the shapeshifter. … I have never had any conviction that I could function as anything other than someone who absorbs things.”
  — Edward Norton (22:01)

• “What I enjoy most about [acting] is this kind of the secret key that it represents. It’s an excuse to go dive into Pete Seeger’s world and learn banjo or whatever.”
  — Edward Norton (23:11)

• “She [Olivia Wilde] shot the film in page order … and basically said, I don’t think we’re going to end up in the same place that’s on the page. … If we do them in order, each one will feed into the next and we will keep discovering how much this can bear as we go.”
  — Edward Norton (47:06)

• “I haven’t experienced a director investing trust in the cast at this level ever.”
  — Edward Norton (48:16)

• “[Seth Rogen’s improvised line] was one of the funniest improvisations; … it was so magnificently rude that I had to turn around cuz it put me on the floor.”
  — Edward Norton (53:17–53:51)

• “I have a very strong and precise memory to the point where I can say most of the lines of the movies I’ve been in.”
  — Edward Norton (71:27)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Edward’s Barge Project & Ship Pollution: 03:55–06:07
• Jim Rouse, Urban Planning & Family Stories: 07:43–12:06
• Norton’s Career Choices & Artistic Autonomy: 12:22–19:02
• Acting Methods, Types & the Joy/risk of Mimicry: 22:01–28:13
• Getting “The Invite” & Olivia Wilde’s Directorial Genius: 39:27–48:16
• Monologue Scene, Improvisation on Set: 51:56–53:51
• Esther Perel, Relationships, and Open Marriage Discourse: 55:22–59:27
• Memory, Neurodiversity, and Arguments: 69:06–74:04
• On Creative Maturity, Modeling for Children: 76:18–78:36

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Memorable Moments

• Serendipitous Ultrasound Reveal: Dax and Edward (with their wives) accidentally revealed their baby ultrasounds to each other at the same lunch, discovering their children had the same due date. (74:37–75:36)
• Reluctant Humility: Discussion of how humility, rather than certainty, now drives their creative approaches as they age. (77:17–78:36)
• On Set Process for "The Invite": How improvisation, collaborative trust, and creative risk led to moving, unexpected scenes. (47:06–54:38)

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Language and Tone

The episode is warm, self-deprecating, and intellectually curious. Dax brings his trademark mix of playful banter, sincere admiration, and candid introspection; Monica is sharp and inquisitive, offering both levity and depth; Edward is articulate, thoughtful, and generous with personal stories, insights, and praise for collaborators.

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Further Listening

• Birdman episode
• Esther Perel on human intimacy

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Summary Verdict

This episode is a must-listen for fans of intelligent conversation about creativity, self-knowledge, the arts, and relationships. It combines deeply personal stories, critique of modern culture and careerism, and a nerdy, infectious joy for the process of making art and finding meaning in unlikely circumstances.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Norton.

[Monica Padman]

Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello.

[Monica Padman]

It's not true we're not married.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Because he's married to my friend. Yeah, yeah. For people who don't know the backstory. Shauna, Edward's wife.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Producer extraordinaire.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Introduced Kristen and I.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you'll hear a funny story about when we had babies, which maybe you've already heard, but we revisit it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Very serendipitous semi.

[Monica Padman]

Moment happened because she had a dinner party. This is not the. The if. If you miss it. Originally, Shawna had a dinner party where you two met.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Birthday dinner party for Jonah, I think at a restaurant. There's only like eight of us. Do you remember which restaurant it was on Melrose. It's kind of a famous fancy restaurant on Melrose, but I can't think of the name.

[Monica Padman]

Like Jones, Like Dantana.

[Dax Shepard]

No one in Jones or Dantana. More towards La Brea. Like more in that pocket of Melrose.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Or Beverly. Could also been on Beverly and that whole zone. No, further east. It doesn't matter. West. The point is, Edward Norton is our guest today. He's an Academy Award nominated actor and filmmaker. Fight Club America, History X, Primal Fear, Birdman. He has a new movie out. We're continuing on with our invite week because we love the movie so much.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. So good.

[Dax Shepard]

So we're. We're pushing on strong and hard to talk more about the invite and to hear all good things from Edward Norton. Please enjoy. We get support from Quint.

[Monica Padman]

Have you been wearing the Quint linen shirts?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I've been wearing them a suspicious amount. Yeah. European linen ones. They're 34 bucks, which is genuinely insane for how nice they are.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't even make sense.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, here's the deal. They work directly with the factories, cut out all the middlemen. So you're paying for the actual, actual quality and not some brand's marketing budget. Everything's 50 to 80% less than comparable stuff. I love it because it's all very classic and traditional and I know I'm going to be able to keep it for a very long time. And the quality's off the charts.

[Monica Padman]

That's true. The style is very consistent. Whatever you get there, you walk down the street, you're going to look good. They have these lightweight cotton sweaters, which I love for when it cools down at night. It's nice. Drape around your shoulders in the summer and then throw it on when it gets a little cool. And it's not just clothes. They do home stuff, do ding, ding, ding. Travel stuff. Everyday essentials. It's all the same model quality without the markup.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Edward Norton]

It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear.

[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Edward Norton]

I'm gonna do this after because it's such a.

[Monica Padman]

It's a treat.

[Dax Shepard]

You got your tea, it's steeping. You have a cream top. Did you drive from Malibu or from Hollywood?

[Edward Norton]

I was in Santa Monica working and then I came here.

[Dax Shepard]

What are you working on?

[Edward Norton]

I am raising a lot of money right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Edward Norton]

For that cargo company, Shipping, emission.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Have you seen this thing? He has a barge company. Right. And it has a 13 story crane on it.

[Edward Norton]

15.

[Dax Shepard]

15. Sorry. Get it right, get it right. I imagine in the crane game it's all about those stories, you know, this

[Edward Norton]

crane was originally, it was a construction site, concrete delivery.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right.

[Edward Norton]

It was for the delivery of concrete up into high stories of construction sites.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So they're built for a ton of weight. Right. That concrete ones, you've got 13 stories of it in a tube and all

[Edward Norton]

we're doing is bringing gas down.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he has these barges and then there's a 15 story crane on top. And when a ship is in port, it hovers above the smokestack of the ship and sucks up all the carbon monoxide or I'm not sure what it's getting.

[Edward Norton]

It's actually the poisons. It's the nitrous oxide, sulfurous dioxide and particulate matter.

[Dax Shepard]

All these diesel waste.

[Edward Norton]

We don't even actually deal with the CO2. Obviously people have their opinions and there's a lot of debate about CO2 and atmospheric CO2 and all of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

But there are no regulations on CO2 right now.

[Dax Shepard]

For the ships or the ships?

[Edward Norton]

No, just society. We don't make you be compliant with zero CO2, but we do have. This is super interesting because even the Trump EPA regulates nitrous dioxide, sulfurous dioxide, because it kills people. That's what gives you lung cancer. So you could call it the smog. That's the stuff that creates the smog that's really, really bad for people. I think the stat I heard is that the emissions off the ports in California. California Drive like six and a half billion of respiratory health costs in the state every year. Like cancer, asthma.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the number I heard you talking about, which is crazy, is that you've only been doing this for what, a year or something? How long has this been operational?

[Edward Norton]

Operational since 2023.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so for three years. But you were saying maybe it was in the full duration of its deployment. But maybe you were just saying a year that it was the equivalent of 65 million cars just last year. Yeah. Okay, so in one year.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

It's sucking the equivalent of 65 million

[Edward Norton]

car operating for a year.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, those things billow.

[Dax Shepard]

Poison, huh?

[Edward Norton]

The ships are really, really. I mean, you know a lot about cars. So you actually know what a catalytic converter is? Yes, the catalyzer. It basically is taking things that are poisonous like nitrous dioxide and sulfurous dioxide. If you catalyze nitrous dioxide into nitrogen and oxygen, then it's just air.

[Dax Shepard]

You're good.

[Edward Norton]

Which is wild when you think about it. That bonded. It's horrible.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, chemistry's endlessly fascinating, right? It's like, oh, this shape is good. This shape plus this shape is dead.

[Edward Norton]

You're dead. I know, it's. It's amazing. I don't even think people totally grasp what a good job we've done on cleaning up cars. Obviously there's some stuff coming out the pipe. Not as clean as an EV or something like that, but the average car's emissions are just not even in the realm of what they were when we were kids.

[Dax Shepard]

Totally.

[Edward Norton]

You and I probably came to LA somewhere approximate to each other.

[Dax Shepard]

95 for me.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. 95 was the first time I came to LA to shoot Primal fear.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that shot here?

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. Here in Chicago a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I still have it in my head as being Chicago.

[Monica Padman]

95 is when you came.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, ma'.

[Edward Norton]

Am.

[Dax Shepard]

He was shooting Primal fear. You were 8 years old.

[Monica Padman]

I was 8 years old.

[Edward Norton]

Oh, God, shut up.

[Dax Shepard]

She's 8 years old.

[Edward Norton]

Well, I was only 18. Sure.

[Monica Padman]

We were all young.

[Edward Norton]

You never saw the San Gabriel mountains in the mid-90s.

[Dax Shepard]

People will even say, and it sounds hilarious. Like, I'll be traveling. People like, oh, there's a smog there. I'm like, dude, that's such an 80 like you. Yeah, that's so 80s that you're thinking that. Like, I don't ever see dirty air.

[Edward Norton]

Be quiet, Tom Hanks.

[Dax Shepard]

That's enough. You know, we've never talked about your grandfather. I got super interested in your grandfather today. What's his last name?

[Edward Norton]

Rouse. Jim Rouse? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

James Rouse. I found this guy fascinating. He's World War II. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

He served in the Navy and Naval Strategic Command at Pearl Harbor.

[Dax Shepard]

And when did he get into city planning and all the civil engineering?

[Edward Norton]

It's funny you bring him up, because I was just talking about him with someone. He's a very, very interesting person. He was, like, orphaned when he was in his early teens, and he and his brother, they lived this extremely, like, Huck Finn, Tom Sawyer like, existence, kind of rootless and parentless on the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay. They had older sisters who they would bounce between, but often would just cut school and go off and live on an island, crabbing and fishing. And he became extremely well known, and they teach classes about him at Harvard now and everything. You had to, like, live with them to know what an extremely eccentric person he was. He really did like to go out and trap muskrat and make a stew out of it.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Edward Norton]

Among the many things he did, he gave Frank Gehry his first commissions.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Edward Norton]

Frank Gehry's first building that wasn't Dennis Hopper's house, was my grandfather's 1967.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Wow, wow.

[Edward Norton]

I have a photo of my granddad and Frank, where Frank is so young and he has this unbelievable. He looks like Ron Jeremy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, perfect. Great.

[Edward Norton]

The hedgehog Frank credited my granddad with is. If you go in Gary Architects today, my granddad's office building, built in 1967, is the one in the lobby. Anyway, Frank told me something that resonated with me, which is he came to think that he was colorblind because he had a great feeling for space and community spaces and open spaces and all these things he was known for. But Frank said he had the worst instincts about color. And the funny thing was, I always thought he was eccentric. He would wear, like, green pants and a madras jacket, and you might have thought it was preppy, but he was, like, the furthest thing from preppy. He parked cars and hustled pool to pay for night school, played really serious poker, and never took his Navy pay Because he won so much money playing poker. And he was one of those people who had an edgier life, I think, than the life that he became, you know, where he became respected.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

You know, he'd go to like a serious meeting and he'd have lures in his hat. And I think people thought he was sort of being intentionally folksy or homespun and it really, really wasn't.

[Dax Shepard]

It was genuine.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, he was really, really funny person. But he was this incredibly accomplished kind of visionary thinker about cities. He was on the COVID of Time magazine in the 70s or early 80s for his ideas about cities, which is wild.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica. He invented the very first. Are you ready for this food court in a mall. Oh, so he built a ton of malls, right?

[Edward Norton]

Lots of malls.

[Dax Shepard]

And he built these like festival spaces or installations in that were supposed to bring people together.

[Edward Norton]

This is interesting digression. Who knows if there are more than 10 people interested in. We'll go there. In the 50s he was on Eisenhower's housing commission. And I am told he was one of the first people to predict that the interstate highway system, which was being built in the 50s, would encourage low density development outside the cities and that the middle class would sort of leave the cities for what became the suburbs and that this would lead to kind of an economic hollowing out of the cities. I don't know if it's true that he coined. He was an early user of the idea of suburban sprawl. And we all talk about suburban sprawl now. We grew up in it, right? Yeah, yeah, but he talked about suburban sprawl. He kind of predicted the hollowing out of the cities. And in the 60s and 70s when all the cities were going bankrupt basically because the middle class had kind of left for the bedroom communities, a lot of people were like, this guy is a visionary. Even in the 60s and 70s he was arguing for the need for more city planning, the revitalization of urban downtowns to bring the middle class back to the town center. He talked a lot about like the European tradition of the town center and the marketplace and how we needed to find a way to both in our suburban planning actually build communities, not just developments and strip malls. But then in the urban centers, downtown Boston, he did the Faneuil Hall, Quincy Market redevelopment. Baltimore, he completely redeveloped the Baltimore Inner Harbor. He did the pier in New York, South Street Seaport.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Which wasn't super successful.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, what I liked about reading about him is he went on to admit it didn't work in some Cities. Cities. No, some of them, they were smash hits, and they still stand. And then the others, the city didn't take to it, which is fascinating, because

[Monica Padman]

in those cities, there wasn't as much suburban sprawl. Like, people stayed.

[Dax Shepard]

I think the opposite. It was so depressed.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. And also commercial real estate's always weird. What makes people want to return to a city center? And it's not just the commerce or the mall. It's sports. And a lot of things go into it.

[Dax Shepard]

Restaurants, museums, and live entertainment. I bring him up because you have what seems to me. I don't claim to know you well enough to make this observation, but from the outside, it seems that you have among the loosest grasps of anyone I've ever met with their career. You hold it so loosely from my perspective.

[Edward Norton]

You mean, like creative life? Like in films?

[Dax Shepard]

Like, when you choose to work, how you've navigated. As we just said, 95. So 30 years of doing this. You're seeming. Confidence to be patient. Your willingness to wait till it's something that you want to do. Your refusal to get more money. When you decide to not be in the Avengers. You're not dumb. You're like, okay, I'm gonna wave goodbye to, like, $40 million. Right? Like, oh, there's 40 million bucks.

[Edward Norton]

Probably more than that down.

[Dax Shepard]

He lives seven or eight of them. Yeah. Buy hundreds of millions of dollars. So there's just all these moments I've just kind of observed over the years. It's. It's such an enigma to me. Cause I'm so different.

[Edward Norton]

Do you know what I think is so funny about this? Number one, I was just talking to someone we both know on the phone. I said I was coming over here.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

We were both admiringly talking about how good at this you are because you're such an autodidact. You're one of the people I know who I think most authentically, avidly pursues more knowledge in all forms. You read as much as anyone I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Edward Norton]

I was saying that I thought, Sean and I will be going along. We listened to it a lot. I said this in the car coming over here. I was like, have you noticed one thing Dax does, which is he seeks affinity with a lot of his guests, even to the point we laughed one time because there was one person you kept saying that's like this, and they were like, I don't think so.

[Dax Shepard]

Affinity, meaning, like a similarity.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. Finding.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

To a fault. You have an instinct, I feel like. To connect.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Edward Norton]

Through shared.

[Dax Shepard]

I know we can find bedrock. Right. Like in the Internet.

[Edward Norton]

And I come in and we actually know each other. I come in and you're like, we are so different. I'm like, hey, where's the affinity?

[Dax Shepard]

No, no, no, no, no. There's so many things we're so similar to.

[Edward Norton]

I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

But of course, when there are things, especially if I think I'm similar to somebody. Right. And then they have these behaviors that like I can't personally imagine being confident enough to do or just having the peace of mind. So when people do things that I do weirdly, maybe feel similar to, that are so outside of how I operate, that's the nugget of like great curiosity to me.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like now I really. Because I know we're the same. Right. We're human beings, we want to be loved and adored. We love our children. You know, like we're so when there's these like splinters, I get so fascinated with how are you somehow having this loose grip on all this? And I was strangleholding it.

[Edward Norton]

How we look out through the skin at other people and our inability to necessarily see ourselves.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Is wild to me because I really might have said the same thing about you if I was talking to someone else. In the sense that we've known each other a pretty long time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. 20 years.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. And in different phases. I know we've talked about both of us perceiving that the other didn't like each other. I was like, God, this guy really doesn't like me.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm so dumb.

[Edward Norton]

But I feel like you're on a journey that to me looks from the outside like enormously confident carving of your own path, defined entirely by the stuff that's so idiosyncratic and particular to you. Not only your passions and gifts and everything, but you've succeeded in multiple lanes. Maybe all of us in our mind are restless and self critical and tend to not almost like tally the wins, we tally the dissatisfactions.

[Dax Shepard]

Ye.

[Edward Norton]

And we don't see what others see from the outside. That looks like confident non attachment or whatever you're saying lightly. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's also complicated too. Right. Like, are we talking about what snapshot of me and you?

[Edward Norton]

No, exactly right.

[Dax Shepard]

Like yes, today I agree with what you're saying and thank God it all landed nicely. But if I take a snapshot in 2000, I don't know, 14, I'm pretty panicked. What are we doing now?

[Edward Norton]

The answer to your question is not that you need a reassurance, but in a weird way I don't think I have any lightness of hold on my aspirations, my ambitions, my endeavors. When you say from the outside, it looks to you like I'm sort of confidently waiting, only doing the things I want to do.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we're not motivated by money.

[Edward Norton]

This is not true. Okay, first of all, I think we have talked about this. No actor turns off the actor's narcissistic brain. The joke that. How many actors does it take to screw in a light bulb? 101. To do it in 99. To say, I could have done that so much better. Don't think for 10 seconds that I am capable of shutting off entirely the part of my brain that goes, why didn't I get sent that?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's reassuring.

[Monica Padman]

It is reassuring.

[Edward Norton]

I would have liked to have read that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Or I'm really excited that they're calling, but I can tell there's this urgency to it. And what that means is someone else dropped or couldn't show up. Okay, fuck it, I'll make it good. You know what I mean? I'll show them.

[Monica Padman]

Also, Edward had successful us quite young and that makes a difference. When there's a lot of struggle, it's going to cause a little bit more of like a tight, tight grasp.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. So I can't help but come up with hypothesis for this observation that may or may not be correct, but one is I thought grandpa had a lot of money. Clearly he was like a big deal in Maryland.

[Edward Norton]

Yes, he was very successful. He was really wild. He didn't trust money at all. He had an Oldsmobile his entire life. He lived in a very small house and he gave away all of his money. He was an extremely like man of the people kind of guy. I would say the most significant financial thing he bequeathed to his grandchildren was he paid for us all to go to college. He made it so that none of us came out of college with debt, which is huge. But that in his mind was, that's the leg up I'm gonna give you. That was pretty much it. He gave away almost all of his money to the Enterprise Community Partners, which was his low income housing.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's why you were in Japan, you were working for that company.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I kind of went to the. Nick Kroll admired Nick Kroll in a similar way where it's like he seemingly has only been motivated by what makes him laugh the hardest. There hasn't seemed to be any dirty calculation of how he could get more money from the outside. But I interviewed him as like, his dad is A billionaire, right? Or close to it. But yeah, like he went to school in the limousine and he'll be the first as many. He's like, yeah, money wasn't my issue. That wasn't something I had to go out and get. I think that liberated me in a lot of ways. I think that's fucking stupendous. If someone can take that privileged childhood and turn it into just pursuing their creative interests.

[Edward Norton]

I don't think I'm as relaxed about how things are going as you think I am.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Also, I'm not accusing you of having grown up with crawl money.

[Edward Norton]

People did, but not me. I remember in 1992, 1993 in New York, I had an actual like little financial ledger book. And I decided to go through the exercise of like, if I want to be able to be an actor in New York and just wait tables or do temp jobs, I have to know exactly what it actually costs to be here. So I started this exercise of I wrote down every subway token, every muffin that I bought. I tallied every single thing so that I could understand how little can I live on.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you remember what the tally was in 93?

[Edward Norton]

To live in New York in the way I was living, I needed to make about 11,000 bucks a year. I had found an apartment that was 400 bucks a month.

[Dax Shepard]

Impossible.

[Edward Norton]

A rent stabilized apartment was 400 bucks a month. I mean, it was smaller than me. I worked out a system for myself. I thought I can exist in New York City if I knew what my nut was and I knew what I had to make.

[Dax Shepard]

Here's where we're similar. That was my same strategy in LA. Yeah, like made 8 grand a year for 10 years because that's what it took.

[Edward Norton]

By the way, the thing when I throw back on myself at that time was if I had to have a car and gas in that mix, I wouldn't have pulled it off. How could you get buying eight grand if you were buying gas?

[Dax Shepard]

Honda Civic and Suzuki 600, like 50 motorcycle.

[Monica Padman]

Also, gas wasn't as expensive.

[Edward Norton]

It was crazy.

[Monica Padman]

The apartment would be less.

[Dax Shepard]

And I drove like 80 miles a week.

[Edward Norton]

Do you know what's funny is on the highway the other day on the 101, I turned to my right and I saw a Toyota Corolla FX16 GTS, which was my used car that I had. It's the weirdest. It's like a trapezoid. For no amount of money would I have said that any of those could still be operating on the road. Toyota, the memory Drawer that opens, though, when you see the car you spent your late teens in. Holy crap.

[Dax Shepard]

I have debated getting a 91 Honda Civic DX and doing it up.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Just because, like, I lived in that car for 10 years and I'm like, I need to honor that trusty little.

[Monica Padman]

It was probably your car that you saw.

[Edward Norton]

It was probably still could have been.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so great. So there's not that. And then my other thought was simply, you're not going to be able to even comment on this observation. But Monica can. You're in the rarest situation where it's like your talent's fucking kind of undeniable. And it was undeniable right out of the gates. I do think that's gotta buy you some abatement of the anxiety. You know, you're just so validated, and you were just so obviously brilliant at this that I don't think you were wrestling with what Monica and I were, where it's like, well, I'm not getting hired. Am I not good? Like, how does one know if they're good or not? Yeah, you're just going. And you hope it's not that you're not good, but you don't fucking know. And I think that is a big source of the anxiety too.

[Monica Padman]

I also don't know if you're an actor like you are, which is at an elite level. I don't even know. And you can correct me if you're thinking, am I good or do people think I'm good? I think you think, like, am I portraying this character correctly? Am I embodying this? Like, you're not really. It's not very external. It's more internal. And that's what makes him so good.

[Edward Norton]

I relate to that. I. I can't remember if we've talked about this or not, but I've always felt there's only two categories of actors. I think some are iconic, and I'm not saying good or bad, but I think some people have qualities that we enjoy so much.

[Dax Shepard]

Clint Eastwood.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. Harrison Ford, terrific actor. We go to them again and again for a set of qualities that we need from them. They're almost like Greek mythology. Right? They personify something that we want. And it can be dark, it can be light, it can be stalwart, it can be hilarious. And then there are people who are in the Joseph Campbell sense. They're the shapeshifter. We need iconic performers because they represent something. They distill something for us. And then people who are. I don't even want to say Character actors, but it's not them. They're a vessel for a thing that channels something else. And I have never had any conviction that I could function as anything other than someone who absorbs things. Sort of that shamanistic idea of the sucking up of something and finding the way to put it through yourself and express something with it. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You're like a mother bird. You, like, go out and you eat and then you come puke it all back into Arlo baby's mouth looking at it.

[Edward Norton]

What I enjoy most about it is this kind of the secret key that it represents. It's an excuse to go dive into Pete Seeger's world and learn banjo or whatever. It's an excuse to marinate in a thing, soak it up, find some way with the writing or whatever. Find some way to get something across and sort of inhabit a thing without the consequences of making that your whole life. And in that sense, it's a joyride of diverse, weird, strange experiences. The other thing that it does definitely to me is I, honest to God, it's not, am I good at it? It's at a certain point, you know, I've worked within this magic trick, not just the magic trick of acting, but the magic trick of how that interfaces with the larger magic trick of making a film that works or that has something to say or any. But the way I like working on it tends to also translate into something that I actually enjoy, which is I don't feel that having done anything well earns me a sense of certainty that I'm gonna do it well on the next one. Because I'm always like, this one might be the one that I fuck up.

[Dax Shepard]

Would I be right to imagine Pete Seeger, Right. Like you're just dumping stuff in there. And I don't know what those things are. Whether you're read a biography or you're watching video of him, or you're learning to play the banjo. And while you're dumping it in there, are you just kind of waiting for the magic click like, oh, there it is.

[Edward Norton]

I often feel something close to a mounting sense of maybe not panic because I've learned to trust myself. But I will often feel a mounting feeling that I have not cracked it.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Edward Norton]

And that we are getting awfully close to the beginning of the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

The blast off.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. And I do love if and when the moment happens that something slides over into this feeling of the suit fits. I've got it right. Sometimes I find it's a different mechanism with each thing. Pete, for sure. One of the things was just his voice, his vocal intonations and the rhythm. And for me, the way he spoke and the way he sung, being thin, and Pete's teeth, his hair, his things, the clothes he wore. In a weird way, that's like.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the easiest.

[Edward Norton]

We don't even have to invent it. Cause we got copious photographs, and that's, like, mechanical almost.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

For me, there's something about the way the man used language. And the rhythm of the way he spoke was a part of what made him seem like a druid to other people. Cause he wasn't like their peer. He was this other thing. He was like their druid. Impersonation is always a challenge or a tricky thing.

[Dax Shepard]

So one of your gifts is you're kind of a mimic.

[Edward Norton]

I am a good mimic. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You're like a mimic. So there's that aspect. But I watch a lot of mimics do things. And there's also now three other layers beyond the mimicry. But, yeah, clearly, that's just like one of the components. And Kristen can do this very well, too, from her musical training. She hears voices, music, all of it in very compartmentalized pieces. She can see each component of it. She can hone in on one little tiny aspect that's actually defining the whole thing, but that I would miss. It's almost like the key to the mimicry. Right.

[Edward Norton]

I'll go even a little more. I think someone who's got a good ear like Kristin does, can pretty much sing. Anyone. I have noticed that people who are good at that. And I've noticed that when I hear someone and I'm gonna try to slide into it, I kind of intuitively know what is happening mechanically. I know where Owen's voice is. Is it back here or is it up here? I know where Woody's is. I know where Bill Hurts is. And it is actually like a physical. Of what part of your face are you resonating?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

A lot of the way a person sounds has to do with how rooted they are in their breath or not, Whether they're speaking from the forward part, the back. And I kind of think people who are good at it may just have. Who knows why it's not just the ear. Cause you hear the same things. It's like an instinct for how to shape the cavern of your mouth to. Yeah, that's a great piece.

[Dax Shepard]

And it makes so much sense. Cause, Right. Kristen, like, learned how to sing through her chest, through her head, Located her voice in all these different areas to get a Different outcome and being very aware of that. Everything you're talking about, like the machinery of making noise.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. They try to teach it, too. Like in theater school, like, I had voice class. I couldn't. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean? Put it up here. I was like, I can't do that. Maybe it's genetic or something.

[Edward Norton]

I will say, too, though, when I was a kid, I didn't feel particularly interesting, but other people seemed really interesting to me. And if someone was interesting to me or an actor or something, I used to just spend a lot of time imitating people that I thought were interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because then you would be interesting right

[Edward Norton]

in front of a mirror sometimes. And I still, when I'm working on Pete Seeger, I have certain actor friends who I just trust, who I go all the way back with, who I know I can sit in a room and be really goofy and not feel self conscious.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

And I will work and work and work on a thing I read. Pete, my friend Peter Lewis is a terrific actor. I'll work scenes with someone and someone who'll go, oh, I heard it and get it wrong and whatever. But I will do a lot of work in front of a mirror.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

I was doing Death to smoochie with Danny DeVito. And I had decided in my own mind who my source was for this character who wears a cowrie shell and a flannel shirt and won't give sugar to kids and is all these things. And I was doing it. We're in the first couple days of the movie, and I think I said, my voice is hoarse right now, but I think I looked at Kathryn Keener and I said something like, hang on a second there, Nora. Cause you know, you're. Halt. Have you heard a Halt. Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. That's you. And I'm not getting sucked into your negative energy. And Danny pops up behind the monitor and goes, what is that? And I was like, it's gonna come to you. And he was like, what is that? What are you doing? He goes, I love it. But, you know, it was just Woody Harrelson.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

And I just decided that Sheldon Mopes was Woody. It took Danny a couple of where he was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Sometimes you do things without thinking about them. But when you talk about what is mimicry and you realize it is the interface between ear and actual location of a thing in your body, Right. It's like, how does Steph Curry hit the shots he hits? There's a Lot of muscle training, muscle memory. And also he just perceives the distance to a degree of perfection that we can't really even imagine in our minds. You know, to him, there's a clarity about how far he is from that, and it translates into motion. Yeah, it's just unreal.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, and if he told you how it had happened, neurologists would say that probably can't happen. I remember that great chapter in Malcolm Gladwell book where it's talking about the great hitters. How do they hit? They know the timeframe between it leaving the hand before it's crossing the plate. Right. They know that duration. And the guy's like, oh, I can always tell. If they drop their shoulder and they do blank, it's gonna be a fastball because they have to start swinging the second it's leaving their hand.

[Edward Norton]

Virtually beyond belief. Hitting the major league fastball is. Is the most astonishing. I don't care what anybody says. That's the single most incredible interface between the brain and the body in sport. There's a million things that are hard, like Nordic skiing. Everything's hard, even the F1 guys. I'm not sure anybody's processing information and making a physical decision to do something virtually impossible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Ozen blink. That makes sense. So what they found was if all the things the batter said were true, they can add that up. They know the duration of the cognition. Right. They've measured it in an fmri. And what they can conclude. Conclude is none of that stuff's happening. There is not time for him to see the shoulder. Compute it to here, move it to the frontal lobe, move it to the motor control, make this decision. They know that that's impossible. The emotional center of their brain fires. That doesn't do any of that computation that the batter thinks is happening. They get an emotional intuition about that pitch. And the great hitters have a really good emotional intuition. And I bet Steph Curry would explain what's happening, but I bet there's something completely emotional that's happening that allows him to do that in some weird way.

[Edward Norton]

That's what we're talking about too, because at a certain point, anyone who uses their body and their voice as an instrument, whether it's mimicking someone or singing. I agree. It's emotional. I mean, if I'm imitating someone, honestly, the feeling I have, it's not really analytical. It's joyful. Yeah, right. It's like an affinity or a.

[Monica Padman]

A.

[Edward Norton]

An empathy.

[Dax Shepard]

We both know we have to stop ourselves. Oh, like, if I start talking like mahe everyone will eventually leave the room if I don't stop Me. Yeah, I could do it for six hours.

[Edward Norton]

Except me. I'm so jealous of yours. You're in the top three on that one. Like Damon is pretty great at.

[Dax Shepard]

But the joy to sound like somebody you know. I don't know why that's so amusing to me. Stay tuned for more Armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your gas gauge before hitting the road. You genuinely thought you could make it. You were wrong. That's a very long stretch of highway where you learned exactly how far fumes can take you and it's not far enough. Yeah, checking first is an excellent plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North America Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club Incorporated and Allstate affiliate.

[Edward Norton]

On snl. I did the Wes Anderson horror film. We made a horror film called the Midnight Coterie of Sinister Intruders. I do Owen. Do you know, by the way, Seth Meyers came up with that title? I did. Text Wes and say, if you did a horror film, what would it be called? And in less than two seconds, he wrote the crullers in the Wispon.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now, anyway, back to what is inarguable, despite what it feels like on the inside. You have taken these pretty big breaks between projects.

[Edward Norton]

You mean films in terms of doing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The chronological record, the archaeological record would demonstrate that you've had these breaks. And so when I see you in something. And I'll cut right to the invite, which we saw together.

[Monica Padman]

Loved it.

[Dax Shepard]

We loved it so much. I immediately sent you a text.

[Edward Norton]

You sent me a voice message.

[Monica Padman]

There is a moment in the movie when we just looked at each other right after and we're like, yeah, what

[Dax Shepard]

are you gonna do?

[Monica Padman]

He's so good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We're like, yeah, what are you.

[Edward Norton]

Was that the thing that made you good when you said it was like

[Dax Shepard]

watching Valentino ride a motorcycle?

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, there isn't a compliment higher than that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It should be universal.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I would say it's like Mary Kate, Ashley.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you'd have to do one of your.

[Monica Padman]

No, I want to make it fashion.

[Edward Norton]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, okay, I'm gonna work on it.

[Dax Shepard]

But every time I see it, the last time you hear you were promoting the Glass Onion. And every time you work, I have the exact same thoughts. I go like, God, why doesn't he do this more? Secondly, why this? How does one guess what you're going to do?

[Edward Norton]

I've never looked at making films or acting as a volume game. For me, it's not selling widgets. And some of my great friends are huge honkin movie stars, and they work all the time. It's just the people who maybe inspired me to be an actor or I model myself on. I never looked at them as the ones who were in the volume game. I want to do it when something that gets under my skin interests me a lot. And that, I think, gives me a little bit of a tickle of a feeling of. I'm not exactly sure how one crushes that or just how I'm going to uncover, unlock that or if I'm even the right one for it. But I want to say there's plenty of times I wish more such things showed up.

[Dax Shepard]

You're not trying not to work?

[Edward Norton]

No, I'm not a resistor of a great thing when it comes.

[Dax Shepard]

But if you're like the layperson, you're looking on the outside Birdman, I'm like, yeah, of course that director calls with that crazy concept. Clearly you're doing that. That makes sense. But then there's some other ones where I'm like, I'm not sure. Was it script motivated? Was it director motivated, Was it cast motiv? Was it conceptually, like you're saying, Like, I just got fucking obsessed with this notion and I just had to explore it. If you had to rank those motivations, are they all equal?

[Edward Norton]

It can be very different.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess, like a complete unknown is probably director motivated.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, I love Jim Mangoldi. I got on with him. But actually on that one, that was super interesting because I know Timothy.

[Dax Shepard]

You knew him before the movie.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, I knew him before the movie and I knew he was considering doing that. And I had this feeling in my head that, like, this might be a bad idea. It's high risk, but it's also a huge personality over investment in Dylan. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You moved to New York and he was the soundtrack.

[Edward Norton]

I thought, you know, it was this kind of snotty. Not snotty. It's sacred. It's untouchable. You shouldn't try to, like, do that. And when Jim brought it up to me, I went through a thing of thinking this whole Thing could be inadvisable. It's great people, but why would we attempt to be these particular people who are so iconic and everything and want to get out of it? Happily, Jim, who is an incredibly unpretentious guy and was the right person to not treat it like a sacred cow, but he also said to me, he was like, you know, I think you gotta. Sometimes you gotta really step back and get away from the mythology and look and realize there's a shit ton of people who don't know a thing about Bob Dylan and don't listen to his music. And he said, and we're in a time when there's not a lot of artists leaning in the way those young people leaned in to what they saw going on around them that they were not happy about, that they didn't think was right. They took what they had and they leaned in with everything they had. And he said, just an examination of that makes it worth. And I thought, I'm in.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's super true for your character. Do we think that's true about Dylan? My layperson's take on Bob Dylan is he's fucking cool. And when you try to make him more than just that, I think you're on a fool's errand. I don't think he's as smart as everyone thinks or had his overarching political agenda.

[Edward Norton]

I think he's a very canonical creator of mythology. Yeah, yeah. But by the way, unapologetically, in. Admittedly, and Joan Baez is famous for saying he was the most apolitical person that I've ever known. The fact that he channeled what he saw to me, Jim was right that the collision of a certain group of artists with the times they were living in was a really interesting thing to look at.

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely.

[Edward Norton]

And then I went, okay, great.

[Dax Shepard]

You have the right North Star for me.

[Edward Norton]

Then it flipped all the way over into joy. Because I got to marinate in things that I love, and that meant a lot to me. And I kind of almost like, had to give myself permission.

[Dax Shepard]

He had to geek out the invite,

[Edward Norton]

which I don't want to be hyperbolic, but I will say it was one of the most pleasurable and creatively invigorating

[Dax Shepard]

experiences that you've ever had.

[Edward Norton]

I put it right with working with Milos Forman, working with Spike Lee, who I revered and works in a very unique way. Working with Inyeridu on Birdman. The way that Olivia Wilde ran the process on this film, I'm always hesitant to, like, unpack A thing before people see it. We should give full credit. There's a Spanish film called Sentimental, the People Upstairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sentimental in Spanish. And then the People Upstairs. It was written by this guy named CES Gay, who was a playwright and directed this film. And I saw it a number of years ago, Sean, and I watched it. It put me on the floor. Like, I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

[Dax Shepard]

Same premise.

[Edward Norton]

A couple from upstairs comes down to have cocktails with the couple downstairs, and all kinds things ensue. Right. The actors were hysterical and brilliant. And I immediately thought to myself, I would love to remake this. And I thought to myself, I'm gonna call Seth or Carell, and I'm gonna be the guy upstairs, and I'm gonna direct it, and I'm not even gonna change much. And I thought to myself, we could shoot this in 15 days. And I went and tried to get the rights, and they had been picked up by someone already.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Edward Norton]

And I called that producer and I said, here's to your point. Like, hey, I would throw my hat in the ring to direct it and be in it. And he said, I think I'm gonna go another way.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Edward Norton]

Like, literally, like. Like, went off to some other directors who worked on it for a bit, tried to put it together with other cast, and this one did not go by me for a couple years. I went, ah. I was like, the girl that got away.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

I want. I really wanted to do that one.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. So then how did Olivia become attached

[Edward Norton]

to direct it through whatever weird flow of things? I end up getting a text from Seth. My wife produced a lot of Seth's movies, and I've known Seth forever.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in Sausage Party.

[Edward Norton]

I've done Sausage Party with him. And he said, do you know about the. I didn't know the title. I was like, no. And he said, olivia Wilde is going to do it. Should we do this? And I was like, wait, we're not talking about the same the people upstairs, are we? And I talked to Olivia, and she goes, would you really do this? And I was like, I've been wanting to do this for a couple years.

[Dax Shepard]

Serendipity.

[Edward Norton]

I did get this feeling of, like, I'll be damned. The currents of the stream. You were patient, brought it back around, and I got to do it. I loved Olivia's two films.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

I love Booksmart. I love. Don't Worry, Darling. Just great science fiction.

[Dax Shepard]

Darling. Sorry.

[Monica Padman]

Dax kept calling it. Thank you, darling to Olivia.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry I kept fucking up the title. I'm bonafide. Cheerleader for her. I saw incredible Booksmart. I was like, this is a great movie.

[Edward Norton]

Sharp.

[Dax Shepard]

But also, this is a genre of movies that I don't want to say is easy to make good, but there's something inherently enjoyable about a coming of age movie. But then I saw Don't Worry Darling. Don't Worry, Darling. And I was like, this is a big undertaking.

[Edward Norton]

The production design of that movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Is insane.

[Dax Shepard]

In the story they're telling, how abstract is. And will that work? They just disappear. Like, there's just a lot of.

[Edward Norton]

But then it turns out it's real science fiction.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Like, which one I love.

[Dax Shepard]

I just was like, wow, she's awesome.

[Edward Norton]

Sharp. Yeah. Really, really good.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, what's interesting is none of the three are the same. They're all so uniquely their own thing.

[Edward Norton]

I will say I watched it with Seth at Sundance and he turned to me and goes, I don't know if I'm gonna be in a better movie than that. Really. I had this feeling. I watched it. I knew Mike Nichols, one of our greatest film directors. He was one of those people who was a mentor to many young people in New York, if you were a New Yorker. And so funny, so dry, so brilliant, such a great storyteller, but also great with advice.

[Dax Shepard]

And for people who don't know, he directed. Well, first he was in this comedy duo that was impossible and groundbreaking. And then he became a director of theater, and everything he touched turned to gold. And then he went into cinema and he did Virginia Wool first out of the gate. And that was first movie. Brilliant.

[Edward Norton]

Virginia Wolf, second movie, the Graduate.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Third movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Carnal Knowledge is impossibly talented. Also smoking crack during lots of it. Addicted to halcyum and up his finances.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That was later Married to Diane. So, I mean, this dude was juggling a lot of alopecia. Came over on a ship at 8 years old. Brother.

[Monica Padman]

There's a biography on it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Incredible biography. Have you read. Yes.

[Edward Norton]

Mark Harris's, Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to know. Anyways, this dude's a legend, so the fact that you knew him is kind of wild.

[Edward Norton]

I watched the film and thought either Mike Nichols came back from the grave and channeled himself through Olivia, or he's just smiling somewhere because I really thought she's done something with this film. That was what I loved about, which is like, hit the high and the low. It's as funny as you could want a movie to be. But then it really gets down into the real shit.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm going to add an element there's. There's, like, a good deal of sexuality in the film with a lot of confidence and not shying away from things. So, like, the moment. Monica will tell you I embarrassed her so much.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, it was so embarrassing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We're in a screening at the Soho House with, like, a bunch of journalists. Some people probably know who we are. When Penelope invites him into the room, I, without my permission, let out this crazy noise, like guttural. I go like, oh, yeah. Like, I was like, yes, let's fucking go to that room forever. That moment's not necessarily easy to go get on film. No, that's a moment, dude, where, like, I can't help but go, yes, out loud, please.

[Monica Padman]

Well, Penelope, I mean, it might be easy. Anytime she invites anyone, I mean, she makes it easy. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

But it's constructed in a way, and

[Monica Padman]

it's the right shot and Seth's reaction. I mean, all of it, you're just

[Dax Shepard]

like, oh, fuck, it works. You know, it's just like a powerful moment. So that's in the mix too.

[Edward Norton]

Oh, yeah. When we made Birdman, I had moments where I was watching Alejandro and Chivo Lubetzky, the great cinematographer who had known each other since college. They went to college together, and there was times that they were working out those long shots. And sometimes Alejandro would have his hands on Chivo's shoulders and his face by his ear. They would move together with him, whispering, and they would say funny things to each other and be laughing. And I thought, these guys, guys are in the zone. They're soulmates. They're having fun, but they're in a flow state. And sometimes you're watching someone else in a flow state.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I remember you telling me they would link arms and walk with each other around the set, sometimes for hours.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, it was beautiful. I felt Olivia Wilde was in a kind of a flow state making this because it brought together for her not only everything she loves and is most interested in, but that played to a lot of what I even think she, as an actress and as a human being, hasn't even necessarily gotten to fully express. It's hard to overstate, you know. Well, I do too. The mind you're in, directing and the state you have to be in acting are in direct opposition to each other. And she gives this performance in the film that's worthy of Jenna Rollins or Diane Keaton at their very, very best. Full of anxiety and longing and physical comedy and anger. There's so much going on in it. And yet she directed us, and she directed this compositionally beautiful film. It's all in one apartment and never gets dull. She's guiding us collectively on how to find this thing on the fly and even saying things to us like, we're gonna stitch the paradise on the way down, but it's gonna open. And by that, I mean she not only encouraged, but actually kind of asked of us that we create our own characters in many dimensions. Penelope's character wasn't Spanish. Penelope brought in her interest in menopause and hormones. And the Esther Perel of it all brings that all in and creates this character, Pina, that is so striking and so dynamic and forceful and aspirational. And Olivia, to me, like, my character's name is literally specific to a friend of mine, his story. There's a lot of things that my friend Julian Sands, the actor who died a few years ago, the stuff about the rugs and the carpets, those were things he said to me when he walked into my apartment one time. And it wasn't just that Olivia didn't tighten up. It was that she did something I've never done, which is she shot the film in page order. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I love that.

[Edward Norton]

And basically said, I don't think we're gonna end up up in the same place that's on the page. I think we're gonna end up in a deeper place, but we're not gonna know what it is or even how we're gonna get there until we march through these beats. But if we do them in order, each one will feed into the next, and we will keep discovering how much this can bear as we go. Now, that all sounds super creatively sexy, but when you're making a film and hundreds of people are standing around and you're saying, as a director, we're gonna come kind of make this up as we go. And I mean really make it up as we go to stay in a state of not just equanimity, but one in which you're relishing it so much that you're giving that performance while allowing for that much uncertainty. It is like, right up there with the most impressive things that I've seen a director do. I will throw down and say, in 30 years, years making films, I haven't experienced a director investing trust in the cast at this level ever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, to me, the ultimate signal of her competence is that takes so much confidence to let everyone be so collaborative, as beautiful as that sounds on the outside, like, yeah, it'd be great if every. No, it's not great. If every actor has an opinion, they don't have an understanding of the global story that's being told. It's not just good to let actor. That's why we have writers and why we have directors. So to trust and to encourage that and not have any fear that I'm going to lose complete control. Because ultimately it does have to be the director's vision. The fact that she was able to stay confident and not rattled and that encouraging to me is like. It's almost impossible.

[Edward Norton]

No, Almost impossible. I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

She won for it. It all works.

[Edward Norton]

You can only imagine the freak out that was going on in the margin.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't imagine if I was paying for the movie.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, exactly. Especially when. When Seth and Olivia in particular, they became convinced that the end of the film should drop into a frequency that was not entirely light. The decision to actually let it go there on Olivia's part, but then on the fly to figure out the mechanisms of how do you get out of a lot of hijinks and a lot of laughter and a lot of everything and over into a place where this film goes is mechanistic, actually tricky. And one of the more amazing things a director has ever asked of me, but trusted me in. She basically said, I sort of think that maybe something between you and Seth has to uncork. I kind of think we need a hinge.

[Dax Shepard]

Let me brag for you. So the movie is great. Beginning to end. It's so entertaining, it's so funny and it is touching on anyone who's been in a long term relationship. You're going to recognize everything. Right. Is just like your partner becomes the explanation for everything you don't like about living virtually. If there's a single scene that makes the whole movie work, it is your turn. You've presented as this guy we don't really know. You just seem really confident and open minded. And then to find out where that really came from was a real moment that had the ability to anchor the entire movie. You're waiting for a big turn or as you say, uncorking or something. And it's definitely that monologue, that thing ends and you're like whoa, I'm kind of fucked up over that.

[Monica Padman]

And she told us that you did not share it with her beforehand to get a real reaction and very generously

[Dax Shepard]

had them film their side first or

[Monica Padman]

multiple cameras or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Seth and Seth.

[Edward Norton]

And she was puzzling over how do we get through this gateway. I can't remember exactly what the conversations were that led to it, but I'll always do what we all learn to do. In acting classes. And I'll always write out for myself something that I think is the secret, whether it's in the movie or not. I'll always write out my own deeper idea of someone's backstory. Most of the times that doesn't make it into anything interestingly, like when you talk about complete unknown. I had found this thing that Pete Seeger wrote about believing that the world is like a teaspoon bringing. And when we got to this final scene with him and Dylan in the end, and Jim wasn't happy with it, I said, jim, I found this thing. I've been carrying this thing like my mantra. And he goes, that's the scene. So that's in the film. And sometimes that happens. In this case, I said to Olivia, you know, I have this idea about what happened with him. She goes, is it good? Will it get us there? And I said, I think it is. And I remember, I think I said to her at one point, I was like, I can say this. That if I say it to myself, I'm gonna lose it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

I can't get through it, my. Without being moved by it. Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

And she was like, don't tell me what it is. And she set up on her and Seth so that she could film them hearing it for the first time in the movie. Her reaction is her hearing it for the first time, which is the ballsiest thing that I've ever had a director do emotionally on a film. She literally said, I want to film myself hearing it for the first time.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll be the test.

[Edward Norton]

I can't really come up with a way in which a director could give me more trust, respect, ever.

[Monica Padman]

But she was so smart to do it. She cast you, Seth. People who aren't only great actors, but great storyteller directors, people who do know that you need a payoff at the end, that it's not just like, let's,

[Dax Shepard]

you know, you're at the end of the second act. I don't know that A lot of actors know they're at the end of the second act, like something happened.

[Edward Norton]

I want to say this, too. Like, I don't want to ruin it or get in people's heads. They're watching. But so much. Then uncorked Seth's reaction. Seth, who had not heard it either. Seth, I think very much respects me, and we've done many things together, and he loves me and everything. I know for sure that when I first did it, Seth thought, it's too long and too serious, by the way,

[Dax Shepard]

that's exactly what his character would think.

[Edward Norton]

His reaction. That unbelievably rude thing that he says to me, he made up on the spot. I think it was one of the funniest improvisations.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's so real when you're a dude and another dude just got attention from the ladies from being vulnerable. You're like this dude.

[Edward Norton]

But it's so magnificently rude that I had to turn around cuz it put me on the floor, get a special moment. But I think there is a shot of me bursting out laughing because you just can't believe anybody would be that big a tool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

But it was so that it pinballed into Penelope. Her reaction to his reaction became a thing that leads to a fight between us. And none of this was anything we had planned. None of it. And I think that the fact that Olivia just sat there letting these things cascade off of each other was so unprecedented to me.

[Monica Padman]

It's theater rehearsal.

[Edward Norton]

And we had all sat, the four of us, plus with Will McCormick and Rashida Jones, who are great writers and great interpolators of. We have the Spanish film, they have the four of us, and we're cuisinarting this all together. And I honestly think everybody else was more anxious about the uncertainties than Olivia, which is a bizarre inversion.

[Dax Shepard]

Not really. You want to look at your leader and go, oh, they know exactly what they want. That feels safer. But if they're like, I'm open to be surprised.

[Edward Norton]

Yes. But when you've been doing it as long as you've been doing it, you know that there's consequence to something you're supposed to get done in a certain number of days. And there's people standing around with a certain measure of. Do these guys know what they're doing? To operate as a director to say to everybody involved, this parachute is gonna open.

[Dax Shepard]

It's powerful.

[Edward Norton]

It's amazing. All my respect to her. And then in the end, she just edited and put together this.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so good. It's so fucking unique. It's so good. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about your friends with Esther Perel. Yeah. You and Shauna. I know Shawna's been, like, on vacation.

[Edward Norton]

I was talking at a conference that Esther was talking at as well, and there was like, social time. And you know what's the funniest thing is, I'm sure, like, all of us, even as I was sort of starstruck and thrilled and turned on.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. She's so sexy.

[Edward Norton]

She is such a force.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

And so vibrant and alive. And everything she says about erotic. What is erotic? That's Esther, you know. But it's the funniest thing to both be thrilled to be meeting and talking to someone and to have this voice in your head that goes, if we proceed down this path, she can't be my therapist. Like, I was like, I'm sacrificing the chance to have her as the therapist.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, well, no, you can do one of your characters and you could call into Mating in Captivity. Yeah. As one of your characters.

[Edward Norton]

You've had her on here.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I adore her.

[Edward Norton]

She's just so provocative. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Because she's honest.

[Edward Norton]

I was at a thing where she was speaking, and it was some tech thing, and too many people were talking about AI and all these things. And Esther gets up and goes, all this talk about AI and no one's talking about the AI that matters in tech, which is artificial intimacy. And she just goes on this tear. I'm a super fan of hers. And honestly, you know, what's funny is, like, there comes a point, I think Penelope said this, and I really agree with kind of what you were getting at. It's not that you're not trying to prove anything anymore, but at a certain point in this kind of work, I find a lot of satisfaction not only in watching other people. Like, watching Olivia be in Floating is so great. You're like, I'm here to serve whatever you need. But this other thing happens, too, which Penelope, I think, affected, which is you get to take the world and what you've taken out of it, and you get to, like, pull it into the work and kind of communicate it in another way. There are people who don't know who Mary Claire Haver is. There are people who don't know who Esther is. Like, if you see the invite and you look at Penelope's performance, she pulled a bunch of shit together and put it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's very.

[Edward Norton]

In this way. And I think that's really cool.

[Dax Shepard]

It's just occurring to me now. I didn't have this feeling when I left, but I'm now having this thought, which is the only thing the movie maybe didn't do. And I want to know what the conversations were like among the four of you. So your neighbors from upstairs, Penelope and you. Sorry, you're the neighbor. They're in this very progressive sexual arrangement. They go to orgies. They're out there. They're communicating about it. What kind of conversations were going on about? About that.

[Monica Padman]

But open relations.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, open relationships. Like I. I guess I was curious if the position at all or if it was even talked about was like, do the neighbors upstairs have a viable thing? Do we buy that it's going to work out? What do we think about that? Was this being discussed? You also have four cast members with different. Like, cess. Been with the same girl his entire life. I think it was. Olivia told us something about. He was like, what do you mean? Someone doesn't have sex every week or something? That was revealing that they are.

[Edward Norton]

No. I think at the time, either Oliv or Rashida turned and was like, you're the only person here without children.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's that. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then there's just nature.

[Monica Padman]

Well, what. They were fighting, too. I think he said something like, who.

[Edward Norton]

Who would ever speak this way?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Who would ever be in a relationship like this? I think people are like, yeah, a

[Dax Shepard]

lot of us, 90% of relationships.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But did you guys discuss that much or. No, Just take it at face value.

[Edward Norton]

I think one of the things that was discussed and then, and I think especially by Penelope, very successfully laced, very subtly through, is how new it is that they've only been together for a year, and you can see how thrilled he is about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. You can see in her very subtle commentary that, like, she knows that it's easy because it's early. She's not naive. And I think it's funny when you do this kind of stuff, because the rehearsal, such as it was, was just six people sitting around a table.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

The four of us and Will and

[Dax Shepard]

Rashida and probably going, how much am I going to reveal about my own

[Edward Norton]

relationship, by the way? Olivia, again, you know, like the general who says, I'll never ask of anyone something I won't do myself. She just, like, plowed in. She was just in the bubble with the six of us. Let's be real, because if we can be real here and all of us throw it against the board together, let's look at what ends up on the board. And we go, ooh, that should be in there.

[Monica Padman]

But then when you go home that night to shine Shauna, she like, I need you to be done with this movie. Like, all you're doing is thinking about relationships.

[Dax Shepard]

You're talking about Esther.

[Monica Padman]

Esther.

[Edward Norton]

Shauna was the one who said when we saw the first Spanish film, she was like, you have to do that, and you're going to do that.

[Monica Padman]

She's just the coolest.

[Edward Norton]

She's gonna happen. She cast Seth in his first film. I mean, literally. And I think I Love doing a film with Seth. He's so good. There's such a reputation around Seth because of house plant and he smokes weed and haha. Seth probably has the most incredible work ethic of anybody I know. He works.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

So hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's the writing. I mean, he does the ugly.

[Edward Norton]

I mean, if something's not working, the computer comes up and he sits down and he's quiet.

[Dax Shepard]

He's written thousands of people.

[Edward Norton]

Works and works and works. Yes, he's the best improviser imaginable. And he'll make up a line like, next time you're in there, check the rings on the older partner. Just stuff that puts you on the floor. But you also realize. But you also realize, actually there's a white piece of paper sitting over on the side that's full of his brainstorming and his lines and what feels like improvisation often is, but is often the mind of a poet at work.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you writing in this moment? Are you writing 30 seconds before? Are you writing 8 seconds before?

[Edward Norton]

What does that matter? That guy is an absolute machine.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, no, the studio just. He's also a cinephile. He's like an encyclopedic film nerd. On top of everything else in this for.

[Edward Norton]

And I think Shawna watching it, it was like the studio wasn't enough. If you ever needed more proof. He is such a mature, real deep, wounded human being in this film. There's pain, there's sourness, there's anger not inflected by comedy. I think of things like Kramer versus Kramer or Richard Dreyfuss in the Goodbye Girl. I loved watching him work in his gear. Like I loved.

[Monica Padman]

Liked my boys all grown up.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, yeah. I loved. I loved Mogul.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a fucking literal.

[Edward Norton]

I do think there's some colors and some depth. Olivia got him to go some places. Don't you think that you should see this movie with another couple? Like if you're in a relationship. I feel like this is a double date. You should go with another couple and

[Dax Shepard]

then afterwards go straight to the Red Room.

[Edward Norton]

You'll have a real discussion, eat a light dinner.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair experts, if you dare.

[Edward Norton]

Did you see the Swedish film Force Majeure?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Where the guy doesn't go. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

One of the most provocative. I've never had better conversations with other couples than after that film.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. For people who don't know an avalanche is coming and he gets up and pushes his own family out of the way.

[Edward Norton]

Cell phone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And then everyone's Fine. The avalanche is fine. And she just can't see him the same after.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Everyone survives. And he has to just be with his family.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He now thinks he's a coward.

[Edward Norton]

I remember a lunch of a couple of couples after we saw that film, and we went around the table and literally one lady said, I thought the whole thing was a little bit like, what's the big deal? Like, would it really pinwheel like this? And we were all like, wait. So if this happened, she'd be like. I'd roll my eyes. It came around to me and I was like, if I did that, I would just.

[Dax Shepard]

Just keep running.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Return to the table.

[Edward Norton]

Never return to the table.

[Dax Shepard]

Family.

[Edward Norton]

Because there would be no. There would be no recovery.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

With my wife.

[Dax Shepard]

And it strikes our deepest fear that maybe we will be that way in the situation. Because you don't know until the avalanche comes. You think, you know. It's like Mike Tyson. You have a game plan until I

[Monica Padman]

can stop the avalanche.

[Dax Shepard]

I've been in a few avalanche situations, so I found out. But, yes, we all think will be one way.

[Edward Norton]

Dax is just lucky that all three of the girls in his family can fit inside him. They would survive in the frozen concave shell of his enormity.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, this goes back to my original thing, the thing I left out about my overarching theories on you. I was thinking maybe meeting Richard Gere on that first movie and having him, and I don't know if he was or not. I know you have his apartment, so I'm imagining you guys were close. But if he was a mentor at all, he too was a guy who had a real healthy grasp on the career. Was he a mentor guy to you or. No?

[Edward Norton]

Richard was great to me. He was kind. He was supportive. He levitated me. I still see him. And we have enormous affection for each other just because of that experience.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

And I ended up living in a

[Dax Shepard]

place that he built and kept it the same.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. There's some weird. We have something connection. We have commonalities and connections. And we have this often distant but some spool of thread. A memory I love with him was that I was so totally unsure whether that was a fluke and was going to be the last gig I ever did while we were doing it. That back in those days, I think you got either 50 or $75 a day per diem. And I was taking that and putting it in an envelope and literally keeping it under the mattress at my crappy little efficiency apartment that I had near the sunset Marquee. And it's. At some point, Richard's this phenomenal guitar player. And every day in his trailer, he had a different amazing guitar. And I love guitars. And I was playing. He had a ridiculous guitar collection. It was later sold at Sotheby's for millions and millions of dollars.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Edward Norton]

Probably one of the biggest private guitar collections in the world at the time. And he said, what do you got? I said, I don't have anything, you know? And he was like, what? We're going guitar shopping. He took me to this place called Voltage Guitars off Sunset. And I found this 1969 Martin D35 from the year I was born. And it worked. And I looked at it, and I always remember. Remember it was $1395. And that was even considerable to me at the time. And Richard, he was like, I like that. He goes, that's the one. And I was like, oh, man, I can't do that. And he goes, are you taking your per diem and keeping it in an envelope? And I said, yeah. And he goes, I'm gonna buy this. You're gonna bring me that envelope of cash tomorrow and give it to me, because you only live once. And he was like, and you're gonna get this guitar. And it sounds silly. It sounds material. It was a nice thing. It was like him saying, like, hey, you're gonna be fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Trust yourself.

[Edward Norton]

He said something to me like, this won't be your last gig. Also, he was like, what are you saving it for? Rent money? Get this thing. There's gonna be a lot of joy in it. It's my favorite guitar I've ever bought still. And I look at it and I'm like. He, like, launched me into something. I can't explain it.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I can't. He said, that phase of your life is over.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Walk into your new phase and walk with your shoulders back.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, I love that.

[Monica Padman]

Me too. Like, this new phase has abundance.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, my last question. This started with interviewing Gabor mate. I was walking him out. He's an expert on adhd. I'm walking to a numa's car, and he said, have you ever been tested for adhd? And I just was like, well, that's a. Interesting question for an ADHD expert to ask.

[Edward Norton]

Did he say what qualities in you?

[Dax Shepard]

He didn't. He just asked, have you been diagnosed with adhd? And I said, no, I never have.

[Edward Norton]

You weren't like a Ritalin kid. You didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

I wasn't on Ritalin there, you know, but then I have since Been inundated with the ADHD algorithm on Instagram, and we've now had a couple ADHD experts on. And I have not been formally diagnosed, but I am certain he was dead right to ask that question. And so I have really kind of embraced it. I kind of dig it. I like thinking about the deficits, things I need to work on that are standard for ehd, and then, like, these super gifts I get from it, like, improving quickly and all that. And so, yeah, the dyslexia, the adhd. It occurred to me, do you think you're neurodivergent at all?

[Edward Norton]

Not in a claimable, nameable way. This is a pet peeve. I may not be right about this, but I feel like Silicon Valley has done a lot of cool things and a lot of really negative things to our society. One of the ones that I find kind of aggravating is what I would call the romanticization of the idea of being on the spectrum.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Edward Norton]

You get all these people who are just basically asking, wanting to credit that to them being on the spectrum. It's like, you're not on the spectrum. Shut up. Stop it. Don't casually try to claim as a superpower, a thing that for a lot of people, is a real thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I'm on your side about this. I express that opinion a lot. You do.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, I think there's a problem with just pathologizing. I'll get to the end road, which is like, to me, they're not actually pathologies. They are words we invented, like, 25 years ago, and we added them to the DSM and we're acting like it means bipedal. Like it's a real thing. We could measure and observe. I don't think it's that. I think we are getting more and more good at recognizing patterns of behavior in humans.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And it doesn't have to be a pathology or an ism or some kind of disease. But I do think it's true that there are a lot of different patterns of human behavior. And when people express these certain patterns, we can kind of predict certain. Some of the pitfalls ahead for them and predict probably some of the things that will come easy to them. And it's like, that's all okay to just go like, I trend towards this. And, yeah, that makes sense. And it's. I don't need treatment. I'm not making an excuse for anything. It's just like, oh, I think I'm in this pattern of people.

[Edward Norton]

I tend to agree that's how I would describe myself. I wouldn't even go near calling myself neurodivergent at all. Watching something like Love on the Spectrum, the most beautiful, wonderful show. Yeah, I. I love it. I love the celebration of it. I love it. While both observing people with real divergence, real conditions, whatever. Just saying the universality of love, of relationships. It's just so great when I hear someone like the one guy named Dylan who. He'll say things and he just says per se a lot at the end.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

For the next week, my family was like, shut up.

[Dax Shepard]

Not per se.

[Edward Norton]

Saying per se. It was funny the first five times.

[Dax Shepard]

You have the mimic thing. But you also have some savant, like, qualities. I watched you recite the Walt Whitman. Whitman poem on Colbert.

[Edward Norton]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is incredible.

[Edward Norton]

Oh, thanks.

[Dax Shepard]

Very low percentage of the population can do something like that.

[Edward Norton]

That's a funny observation.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll depersonalize it really quick. I'm friends with Phineas now. Do you know Phineas?

[Edward Norton]

Billy Eilish's brother? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He's one of the most special guys in the world. You would fall in love with him. He's 28. And I'm like, how is this guy not 51? He's definitely 51, maybe 58. He's definitely wiser than me. He's smarter. I'll bring up a thing and he'll just go like, oh, yeah, that was October 20th. And I go, huh? And you know people can't do that, right? Like, people don't know what date you did mundane things on.

[Monica Padman]

We just had Jack McBrayer on. Oh, my God. He can name the dates of anything that happened. He's like, oh, yeah, March 12th.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, not to pathologize it, but I saw on 60 Minutes that people with super memory are also really high trending for ocd and they all had really organized closets. So I say to Jack McBray, with this. He's displaying this impossible memory. And I said, what's your closet look like? And he goes, oh, my God, you would love it. It's a dream. Everything's color coordinated, Right. It's like, yeah, that's a pattern of human behavior. That's fascinating.

[Edward Norton]

You had someone talking about obsessive compulsive disorder and how poorly people understand what it really even means. I thought that was great, because I think OCD is another thing. Lots of people just like to say, throw out.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm a neat freak. Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

I'm a neat freak. Yeah. Et cetera. I think there is an interesting connection between. Between Hyper retentive memory, which I definitely have, but by the way, so does my dad. I don't want to credit it as something. I have a very strong and precise memory to the point where I can say most of the lines of the movies I've been in.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Edward Norton]

And if I watch a film with a lot of focus, if there's a film I love and I've watched it with focus, I have a lot of it locked in. The thing I've been interested in, to your point, never tested for, in any way, is I know for sure. With me, a photographic memory is eidetic. I think it's called being eidetic. With me, it's completely auditory. If I hear something with focus, music or words, I have it. Or I pretty close to have it. When I learn lines, I learn them by saying them out loud. Once I've said them out loud, I've pretty much got it. There's an interesting connection for me between the auditory and the memory retention.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, I would imagine that could create tension in relationships. I have it to a lesser degree

[Edward Norton]

than you, but I have things is right.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't have it to the degree to which you have it, but I also have a very high degree as well. You're arguing with your wife and you're like, yeah, we weren't at the grocery. It's kind of maddening. And then you have to really zoom back and go like, all right, we're not arguing about whether or not it was at the grocery store or what was this sentence?

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, this is not an emotion.

[Dax Shepard]

We're talking about an emotion she has that I have the ability to potentially alleviate or help. But I have to step over a lot of. No, we weren't even in Michigan when that, you know,

[Monica Padman]

no memory, Kristen. Zero memory.

[Dax Shepard]

Here's the spectrum. It's like she's on the far left. I'm like two thirds and you're at the far right.

[Edward Norton]

Shawna, if you're listening, you know what's great about that is that Kristen acknowledges that she has.

[Dax Shepard]

She. She does, she does.

[Edward Norton]

No, I'm kidding.

[Dax Shepard]

But if you had to learn, I've had to learn. Oh, right. That's not what's important right now when

[Edward Norton]

we're talking, the impulse to correct. Because your brain says, that's asynchronous with what I know to be my memory of the truth. But in the invite, the thing that Penelope says, that was provoked by Seth's improvisation, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Edward Norton]

Led to this thing, which is Penelope and I have known each other A long time. And Penelope and Salma Hayek, and we all go way back. And the thing where I correct her English. Oh, yeah. Penelope and I had talked about in her life and relationships, and when she did, I was like, what if we put that in? Like, you know what I mean? We put that in. I love the moment where I correct her and step into such deep minefield.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

The look on her face. Didn't your whole body go, oh, he's done it now? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But back to the question you want to answer. Have you had to learn to go, oh, that's not what's important. Important right now? I think that takes some practice.

[Edward Norton]

Sure. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, my father was a litigator. My father was a U.S. attorney. I grew up sitting in the back of courtrooms listening to my dad cross examine and dissect people. And I'm really good at it, you know, so someone who doesn't just think, but does remember things perfectly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Edward Norton]

Combined with the litigators thing is awful. Yeah. Esther has definitely given me some tips

[Dax Shepard]

how to function more peacefully in your life. I think kids help teach you that. Really? Well, for sure.

[Edward Norton]

Yours and mine are moving into teen.

[Dax Shepard]

I do need to say this out loud. We probably already have, but it's probably like one of the cutest things that's ever happened to us is we either you invited us to lunch or we invite you to lunch at this vegan restaurant and we've both hidden our ultrasound photos in our menu.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's impossible.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

It's such an impossible to announce to

[Edward Norton]

each other for the same due date.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Same due date.

[Edward Norton]

Due date.

[Dax Shepard]

That was an out of body experience.

[Edward Norton]

And let's remind people that Shawna introduced you and Kristen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Right.

[Edward Norton]

Set you guys up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Edward Norton]

So we felt invested in you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

You put the ultrasound in the menu and you said, you know, we really like this place and I think we're gonna have this. And you turned it around and we went, oh, that's funny. We're ordering the same thing. And we turned ours.

[Dax Shepard]

This is an impossible. I'm not even sure it happened.

[Edward Norton]

Screamed. I remember you going, no. You were like, kidding me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Edward Norton]

It feels like. But then, remember we looked at the due date and the due dates were the same.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That is so.

[Edward Norton]

I know. Crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't give that enough credit. That was an otherworldly occurrence that happened, I think.

[Edward Norton]

So much so that you and I just wanted to go out and get a burger. Yeah. Yeah. We were like, let's Get a burger,

[Dax Shepard]

got children on the way.

[Edward Norton]

Exactly. When I. I think about things that, like, I know you've talked about this a lot, like your dad, down to you, and I don't know if cultural shift or psychological shift or whatever, but I do feel this thing that's really been landing for me lately is the thing you can do for a kid is actually just model for them what it looks like to be an adult who listens, who asks a lot of questions, and has control of their own emotions. It's not that there's no boundaries. It's not anything. But that whole idea of. Of just modeling more than telling is revelatory to me.

[Dax Shepard]

We grew up in a generation where it's like the parents were saying one thing and you were observing them actively doing the opposite as they were telling you, and it just didn't mean anything.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah, it's really wild. But it all circles back to some of what we're talking about, about creativity, about a great process with Olivia, Penelope and Seth, and me and Olivia have all been doing this a pretty long time. And one of the things I think maybe allowed that to work like that was getting to this place where you go, I'm going to make myself available. I'm not going to come in with a predisposition, and I'm not going to try to over control or direct with my determinations or my instincts or my certainties the way this is going to go and that the lighter I hold it and the more available, available I make myself to something someone else says or to, okay, that's not what I thought was coming. But what do I do with what came? In a weird way, the happier you are.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like aging, right? I'm young and I read the Fountainhead and I'm like, yeah, I want to be like Howard Rourke. Just whatever opinion I have, I want to believe in it. I don't care what anyone says, and I'm going to execute. And that was so appealing as a young man, and now as an old man, older man. I think I used to get horny for conviction, and now I'm like, so horny for humility. Humility is like the most powerful, crazy thing. It's not appealing when you're a young man, but I think as you get older, it gets more and more appealing. And like, all you're saying about that process is you, like, you walk in with the humility, that maybe someone else has a better grasp of this or maybe someone else has a different angle that's also valid. That might be more interesting or even

[Edward Norton]

that none of you know. And that the collision is gonna reveal that the uncertainty is a state in which something interesting and true might happen. And that if it does and you make yourself available to it, all these other things will rise up that are better than your predispositions toward something. It all sounds corny, but what you're describing is youthful. Creativity is often a flex.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you're trying to define yourself and

[Edward Norton]

maybe if you're lucky and you get to keep being creative, you get to the place where it's more discovery than it is flex.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You said something that's really beautiful and profound, and it is that you were kind of asked about happiness. I can't remember the specifics of the question, but you were basically like, I try not to actually think about or pursue happiness. I'm more interested in just expansion. I would replace happiness with expansion. And I would replace sadness or unhappiness with constriction. And I think those are great things to swap out when you're younger too.

[Edward Norton]

It's. In some weird way, you feel like if someone has a different idea, it feels like you're not getting an A on your homework and you end up probably with more people who. You leave each other feeling a little bruised instead of leaving each other feeling. Feeling like you lifted each other higher.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You both went somewhere you'd not been before.

[Edward Norton]

It's nice to arrive in that place for sure.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You don't have much of an ego. I've noticed that over all the times we've had you. Especially for someone as talented and could walk around with like, I have all the answers. Because you've proven to in a lot of spaces. And you're doing all these other cool things like the barge. You could, but you don't walk in with that air, which is very impressive. I will say. It doesn't appear you have much of an ego anyway.

[Edward Norton]

It's hard not to have. And not just humility, but I mean, I just think the scale of what's taking place in the world right now, the scale of the challenges, the scale of the assault of, you know, the awareness and information about cataclysm and violence and brutality in every corner. I think we're in a very brutal age right now.

[Dax Shepard]

We're overwhelmed.

[Edward Norton]

It's true.

[Monica Padman]

It can put you in your place as well.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. In me it sounds really trite, but it's like how you can. Can you have Gaza being live streamed and then get off on your achievements?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Self important.

[Edward Norton]

You know what I mean, but also

[Dax Shepard]

you see the Gaza thing and then you swipe up and then it's a guy jumping an old car over a river. And then you're laughing and then you go to the next page and it's like some heartfelt reunion with a soul.

[Edward Norton]

And then, oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, the ride you're on is insane for your nervousness.

[Edward Norton]

It's so schizophrenic and unhealthy. I often rely on the things you send me about someone in a powerboat doing something stupid.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm curating that for you so that

[Edward Norton]

I can go to bed on that versus the rest. Keep them coming.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, Edward, this has been lovely. The invite is phenomenal. I hope it takes the world by storm. You guys are also good again. I'll just repeat it. It's Valentino on a motorcycle watching Edward

[Edward Norton]

do this monologue date movie of the summer.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Could end in a lot of different ways. So June 26th, everyone check out the invite. I adore you and I can't wait to do it again.

[Edward Norton]

Love it.

[Monica Padman]

Stay tuned for the fact check. It's where the party's at. Last banter for the summer.

[Dax Shepard]

Last banter. Uhoh. Careful, little girl. I know you think you're out for school.

[Monica Padman]

Listen, my arms. I woke up this morning and I was like, why am I sore? Oh, did something happen in the night?

[Dax Shepard]

What happened?

[Monica Padman]

I tried to lift you up yesterday.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Your arms are sore from that?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no. That's not a great sign.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Edward Norton]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

What if that is your new workout routine. You had to try to lift me up three times.

[Monica Padman]

I. That's easy.

[Dax Shepard]

That only three sets.

[Monica Padman]

It only took. It only took a couple.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it was a quick workout to get the burn the next day.

[Monica Padman]

It was.

[Dax Shepard]

I do not say this in a boohoo way.

[Monica Padman]

No, we're not gonna complain.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not complaining. I'm just gonna say that we have been trucking through, but yesterday we finished and I was getting out of the hot tub and I kept like my eye was getting blurry on the right side. And I kept going like, why is my eye blurry on the right side? And I would wipe it. I would wipe it and then it would get like, kind of. Kind of better. And I'm like, I'm going to go upstairs and look in the magnifying mirror. And so I went and looked in the magnifying mirror and when I pulled my eyelid down, Monica, there was a dye in there the size of like, what's the biggest kind of pee. Is it a snow pee? Snap pee, like an edamame pee? Yeah, edamame pee. Yeah, it was edamame pee. I don't know how I wasn't feeling it. And it was just, just hemorrhaging. It was nasty. It was just oozing. Yeah, I know it's terrible to say.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, no one wants to hear about that in the summer.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's terrible. But I was like, oh, this is. Well, that's a sign.

[Monica Padman]

It's a stein.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm just so curious why styes are such a direct stress related.

[Monica Padman]

Not for me. I've never had one.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you get them wob?

[Edward Norton]

No, not really.

[Dax Shepard]

Lucky you guys, we don't get styes. My mom used to say, I remember when she was a kid k when I was a kid, she would have to get hers Lance it be like a big ordeal. And she is famous for saying if she just sees somebody with a sty, she'll get one.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that seems curious. Seems a little. Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, we don't call Laura a

[Monica Padman]

liar, but I'm not going to call her anything.

[Dax Shepard]

But we must acknowledge she is Munchausen. She exaggerates.

[Monica Padman]

Listen, speaking of Munch housing. Okay, I watched.

[Dax Shepard]

We weren't speaking to Munchausen's book.

[Monica Padman]

We were. I just, just said it.

[Dax Shepard]

You just go Munchausen. Speaking of Munchausen.

[Monica Padman]

No, I didn't. I said she has it. I was kidding. Yeah, don't hurt me. I watched that doc last night.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, what's it called, Mother?

[Monica Padman]

It's called maternal instincts or something.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a.

[Monica Padman]

It's a horror. It's a horrible good name. And a horrible name. Guys. Like, I hate to say watch it but I think like watch, Watch it.

[Dax Shepard]

Even though it's disturbing.

[Monica Padman]

It's so disturbing. It is. You know what I liked about it?

[Dax Shepard]

It was short, of course.

[Monica Padman]

I really loved that about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you now that's the first criteria. Yeah, yeah. The shorter the better. Are you excited? Like the moment I normally feel screwed. Are you excited? Like you'll be watching a show. It's a comedy. So generally the episodes are going to be like 30 minutes. Ish. And then you turn on the episode and you see it's like 19 or 20 minutes and you're like, I'm like, you. You can't give me an 18 minute episode. Are you like, oh, this is going to be a good one?

[Monica Padman]

Like, oh, it's like three minutes too long.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, 15 is ideal. No, well, you Must love short content. And maybe that's what's happening.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, it's not. I. I like a full size show or movie, but if it's a 20 something minute show like nobody wants, this has short episodes and I like that because then I can, can just keep going.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Just, I can watch it all in one, one sitting. Which I enjoy doing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Which is.

[Monica Padman]

I've been meaning to bring something up for a while. All year. Okay, not all year. Couple months. Okay. Have you noticed I've been wearing this necklace a lot?

[Edward Norton]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. For the listener. It is a gold necklace. It has like, they look like rice shapes.

[Dax Shepard]

They do.

[Monica Padman]

They're diamond. Diamond in an oval diamond. Oh, diamond in a diamond shape. Rice shape. There's 11 of them. This necklace was sent to me. It is called an 1111 necklace.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, and someone gifted that to you because you love 1111?

[Monica Padman]

Yes, because I'm obsessed with 1111 and it stands for 11 wishes. So I don't really have to look out for 1111 anymore because I already have it at all times.

[Dax Shepard]

So did you model out how many years left you have on planet Earth and try to figure out what your schedule for wishes will be? If you have 11, let's say you have 60 years left. That would be one every six years.

[Monica Padman]

No, I didn't do that.

[Dax Shepard]

Or if you had 66 years just

[Monica Padman]

means I always have wishes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you're just not using them, you're kind of stockpiling them, waiting for emergency.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's like this whole thing represents abundant wishes, not 11. Like it just were. It's just, it's just like good luck.

[Edward Norton]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

You know, it's just good luck. And the jeweler is called Devon Wood Hill Jewelry. Okay. And I really love it. It's very dainty, which I like. Dainty jewelry, huh? And you're just walking around with good

[Dax Shepard]

luck and have you felt like your luck has improved since you started wearing it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Big time.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. A lot of great luck.

[Monica Padman]

I still look at, I still just see 11:11 all the time. It's so, so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

But now how do you feel since you don't need it anymore?

[Monica Padman]

I still love it.

[Dax Shepard]

You still love it. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I feel like because I wouldn't

[Dax Shepard]

want this necklace to end an arrow.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't. It just adds. It didn't end, it adds.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now if you had 11 wishes, what would be your approach?

[Monica Padman]

My strategy?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, because I might think, okay, I have 50 years left.

[Monica Padman]

Uh huh.

[Dax Shepard]

So I get to use one every nine years or whatever it would be. Yeah, but, but I'm a hoarder by nature, right? Like, you know you get points when you use your American Express. Yeah, I've never spent a single one of the points. It drives everyone in my life crazy. Yeah. And I'm just like, yeah, if I have no other money ever, I'll at least have some of those points I can cash in.

[Monica Padman]

That's such a ding, ding, ding. I, for the first time used points

[Dax Shepard]

you did for your flights.

[Monica Padman]

Not a American Express. I used Delta. Delta points.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And was it, did you get a free ticket out of it? Yeah, I've had underwhelming experience. Not Delta specifically, but when I've tried to cash in airline points. I remember back in the day when I traveled non stop for car shows and I had a lot of points and they told you like, oh yeah, 20,000 points, you get a, a flight. Well, every single time I ever tried to book a flight it was like, oh, it was blackout. So it's really 40,000 or it's 60,000. And the couple times I use them, it was like it was 5x of what they tell you it's going to be.

[Monica Padman]

It's a lot of points. It's a lot of points, but it's a lot of money.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So it saved me a lot of money.

[Dax Shepard]

So you got, you did points plus

[Monica Padman]

ad I think, I think I did.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. Julie helped me.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I don't know. Julie.

[Monica Padman]

Julie is Max's mom. Shout out Max's mom. Julie, she does listen to this show often.

[Dax Shepard]

Is she a, a travel agent?

[Monica Padman]

She is.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. And you're using a travel agent?

[Monica Padman]

Well, I, she helps me sometimes and it's really nice because like, I don't know how to do any of this. I don't know how to use points. That's part of why I don't use them. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think that's what they're counting on.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, nope. I mean, Julie knows.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you imagine those first? So they bring in an expert, certainly. And then they pitch the board or whatever the higher ups are and they go, okay, here's what we're here to pitch. We'd like to start this, this, this points program.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And every 20,000 points people get a free plane ticket. And then the people there go like, well, shit, if you divide that up, we're going to be given a running. And they go, well, here's the good news. 21% of these people will hoard Them and die. With the points that Ax shepherd types.

[Monica Padman]

I think it's more than 21, probably.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm just. This is the number.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And then they go. And then 36% of people will never be able to figure out how to use the points.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, the Monica.

[Dax Shepard]

So now we're down to, like, you know, this was a part of their initial pitch. So, like, what we've modeled out is really only about 11% percent of people will be actually cashing these in.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's why it's this.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But they need to watch out for, like, the. So we've discussed the Dax Shepard types, the Monica Padman types, but then there's also the Elizabeth Lame types. She's totally hacked points. She's like. She knows how to do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Kristen Wild.

[Monica Padman]

She is like, she pays $0. It's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Kristen, too. It's like, you convert these points into those points, and then on this month, you convert those points of these points, and then there's. Yeah, so, yeah, there's. Some people have mastered it. I mean, I don't even know. I cancel flights sometimes, and they don't refund the money. They give me a credit, and I don't know how to ever re. They don't give you, like, here's a number to type in that will activate your credit. It's just like, you have a credit. Good luck figuring out how to cash.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, if you go to your. Your app, it's there.

[Dax Shepard]

My app? You have an app for all your airlines?

[Monica Padman]

Just Delta. Delta is my per. My. My main.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Cuz of Delta 1.

[Edward Norton]

But those expire.

[Monica Padman]

Delta, your daughter.

[Dax Shepard]

They expire one credit credits usually expire

[Edward Norton]

within like, a year or two.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's like a year, two years or so.

[Dax Shepard]

Your airline points expire now.

[Edward Norton]

Credits from a canceled flight.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Which I did. I don't know how to use.

[Monica Padman]

That's why you need to go get your Delta app, put your thingy in your number, and it'll. It'll. It's actually very easy to use on the app. You can just, like, say, like, pay with credit. Oh, wow. It's cool. I have done that.

[Dax Shepard]

Great.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, your daughter's named after the dang airline.

[Dax Shepard]

And every time she flies in, I'm waiting to see. Because 100% of the times we fly, when we check in and they read the things, they always comment on that. It's the same name as the airline.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And she has liked that a lot as a kid. It's exciting. It's more attention of course. But she's getting older and I know it'll. It won't be fun. Like when she's 24 and they're like, oh, you're flying. And then she'll be like, yeah, man, I've heard this every time I've flown since I was.

[Monica Padman]

So do you think she's gonna start going by DD or what if she

[Dax Shepard]

just refused to fly Delta? So they. But then what if she was checking in at American Airlines and like, wouldn't you be more comfortable on Delta? And she's like, man, okay, I'm going to go back to Delta.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, there's a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a lot to think about. But I am wa. I'm waiting. It hasn't happened, thank God, but I know it's coming. Where it'll. It'll change from excitement for the attention to annoyed.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm. I'm just clocking that. And who knows, we have some flights coming up. This could be the time.

[Monica Padman]

Let me know. Okay, but you won't be able to let me know. We gotta. You have to. You have to write it down and save it for later because as a reminder, we don't have fact checks for the next little bit. Guys, get excited. It's rerun time. It's Block Party Summer. Do you remember Block Party Summer?

[Dax Shepard]

Don't tell me about it.

[Monica Padman]

It was on Nickelodeon.

[Edward Norton]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I used to, when I stayed with my grandparents in Savannah, there was Block Party Summer on Nickelodeon. So Mondays was Bewitched and then it would be all night marathon. Bewitch Marathon. Then it was I Dream of Jeannie and it was Mary Tyler Moore, she show. And I watched all of it and I loved it.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you wish you were a kid again?

[Monica Padman]

Do I wish you were just.

[Dax Shepard]

You were just watching the children play in the backyard last week and you had great envy of the carefree nature of their play. Well then this story. And just the way there's a look on your face when you talk about being a little kid.

[Monica Padman]

I'm a nostalgic gal.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, but would you like to be a little, little kid again?

[Monica Padman]

I don't think so. Because there are a lot of things I like a lot about being an adult. I don't want to give those up.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And it. It's one or the other. You don't get both. Well, we. You just told me that someone, some human, the first human, is trying the epigenome.

[Dax Shepard]

Anti aging.

[Monica Padman]

Anti aging treatment protocol. Protocol. Yeah. And so we were discussing this. What age. Age would we go back To Yeah. And then we said maybe be fun if I went back to being like four.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, but you still have the same position and just a higher voice. Yeah, but your same brain.

[Monica Padman]

My same brain and my same knowledge. But I was a little four year old looking girl.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It would probably, it would reduce stress between us.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Because you would never be able to get mad at me.

[Dax Shepard]

That would be impossible. And I would just like I would chalk up whatever you were doing. Doing. They're like, oh, she's a kid. The way I'm able to write off insane behavior in my house because I'm like, yeah, they're kids.

[Monica Padman]

But that actually. Okay, that's going to get complicated because I'm going to be like, I am not. Stop treating me like a child.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, but you are a child. I got to help you into this car and I got to pick you up. Then I got to grab everything for you.

[Monica Padman]

I only look for but 38.

[Dax Shepard]

All this stuff kids can't do. You can't get your mittens on.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I think.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. We're going to have to go over every morning and get you ready. Ready for your job.

[Monica Padman]

But I'm also going to be texting you. Why are you late? Yeah, we need to start the day. Come get my clothes on now.

[Dax Shepard]

And you can't reach. You can't cook yourself eggs. You know, you would need a caretaker.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, and who like maybe Joshua.

[Dax Shepard]

Little steps and stools everywhere around your house.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Now this would get tricky sexually.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, because like anyone I want to have sex with is not a pedophile.

[Dax Shepard]

They have to be a pedophile. Like on your, on your dating dating app. You have. So who you're looking for, Handsome, financially secure pedophile, funny, smart.

[Monica Padman]

No, listen, it's not, it's not a

[Dax Shepard]

laughing, it's a laughing joke. When we think about your miniature in four and still want to date Sean Penny.

[Monica Padman]

But minute miniature.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You have your same mental needs.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I have my, and I have physical needs. Like I need met and you need food. No, no, I mean like sexually.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I, I, I'm still attracted to the same people I'm attracted to, but they're not pedophiles. So this is going to get complex. Because even if they're attracted to my brain, how will they like they can't have sex with a four year old body. No, they just can't.

[Dax Shepard]

They can't. It's a, it's a. If you thought the dating scene was challenging currently with you Being four it's going to really be impossible.

[Monica Padman]

Four year old body. Let's not say I'm four because I'm not four.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think a more, a more blurry hypothetical is.

[Monica Padman]

You don't think this one's blurry?

[Dax Shepard]

No, this is black and white. Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Because they just can't.

[Edward Norton]

You're four.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you go to 17?

[Monica Padman]

Oh no, that's even worse for some reason.

[Dax Shepard]

Well that's why I'm.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Steering our vessel into those choppy waters because that's way more complicated.

[Monica Padman]

No, but you know what's interesting? So it's a 17 year old body.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. 40 year old mind.

[Monica Padman]

But so what. What. Unless I'm wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong based on my life experience. I don't look my current age.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

I look younger.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So if I just look to 17. I mean it'd just be like if I currently looked 17.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Monica Padman]

Of whatever everyone thinks I look like which often is young.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Quite young.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I think that would be fine because I am 38 in this scenario. Right. Is that what happens?

[Dax Shepard]

Well it's 1000% fine because the entire spirit and intention of these laws is that a young mind that doesn't understand what they're getting into or how they're being manipulated would be taken advantage of.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And a non sexual being would be asked to participate in sexuality when older person.

[Monica Padman]

That's yeah. Power dynamic.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's 100% about the brain.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Your body can handle it long before we acknowledge you can handle it mentally. So we already know what the goal is. So yes. There's nothing at risk. There's no victimization on the table.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So but the man who's able to be aroused by a four year old is sick. It immediately takes it back to the zone.

[Monica Padman]

So what's the eight? See this is tricky.

[Dax Shepard]

That's why I was trying to steer us into 17.

[Monica Padman]

17 feels if I looked like I looked se when I was 17 but it's me now.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That's fine for to me I also get to.

[Dax Shepard]

What about the guy though? What's about how cuz we know how we feel about the guy that was able to perform with a four year old. That's. That's non starter actually you could trap.

[Monica Padman]

You could like trap, trap.

[Dax Shepard]

They would on those hard copy shows and stuff. That's what they would do.

[Monica Padman]

I'm going to do that when I get four.

[Edward Norton]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Weird use of your.

[Monica Padman]

I think it's helpful it's like doing good.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay. Now what do we think of the guy who's willing to be with 17 year old body, you with 38 year old brain?

[Monica Padman]

I think that's. I think they're fine. Yeah, I looked really good. I looked good. I don't look that different than I looked when I was 17.

[Dax Shepard]

We had a version of this hypothetical. It's very similar to a hypothetical we had years ago, which is this thing I thought of, which is when I was in high school, my girlfriends and I had some. No. Nude photos in high school.

[Monica Padman]

You mean exchanging. What do you mean you had nude photos?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we had like taken photos.

[Monica Padman]

Oh yeah, yeah. Don't do that. Kids just especially in this digital age do not not do that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well they're going to do exactly what they're going to.

[Monica Padman]

No, you can say like that's. You can say be careful.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

Cuz these things get out.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm just not.

[Monica Padman]

I think, I think a lot of kids days know not to do that.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm just saying we were doing it with really shitty technology and the risk of having to go get them developed. The town pharmacy, you know, you had to go drop your film off at

[Monica Padman]

the equivalent of way, way easier to keep. Keep wrapped up than the digital age sending.

[Dax Shepard]

Obviously there's an infinite distribution of the other cloud. What I'm saying though is there was a bunch of hurdles and risky hurdles.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But we still did it because we wanted to do it so much. So I'm only be. I think I'm trying to be realistic about whether or not people take that warning. But that doesn't matter. The hypothetical is. So let's say I have these photos and let's say Kristen had taken photos with her boyfriend when she was 16 and we're both just chatting about this and then we both have photos of each other when we were minors.

[Monica Padman]

Is it, is it bad?

[Dax Shepard]

What do we feel about each person wanting to see those?

[Monica Padman]

Well, how old are you?

[Dax Shepard]

Let's say I'm. Let's say 15 and 15 because that's below age of consent everywhere.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. In 15 to me is. We know children who are older than that.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm just, it's so curious cuz again there can't be a victim cuz that

[Monica Padman]

person's now we can't say can't because.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I can't be a victim because I'm now 51. That boy that could have been a victim doesn't even exist.

[Monica Padman]

Well it's, it still can be violating if A pedophile is using your pictures from when you were young to like get off.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. A pedophile would be concerning and we would know that. Like there's not an ethical debate there.

[Monica Padman]

Right, that. But I'm saying you can still be a victim.

[Dax Shepard]

Two consenting, two consenting adults who I go, no, I don't care at all. If you look at the picture of me when I was 15, naked. So you have my consent and I'm the person in the photo. And the person in the photo is no longer a minor and can't be victimized.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So there's, there can't be a victim in this scenario. Okay, what are the. Yeah. What's the morality of that?

[Monica Padman]

Doesn't mean that there's not going to be judgment of the person who wants to see a 15 year old sexually. Like so.

[Dax Shepard]

But what makes I think this situation good is like we know each other as adults and we make the two adults make a decision. So this guy knows you're 38, you're dating. This guy knows that you, Monica, are 38 from your brain.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

But you're, you've made your body 17.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

But he knows he's talking to a 38 year old with full autonomy.

[Monica Padman]

But that's different because then he does get the full me. He gets a 38 year old old. Conversation and interaction and brain. If it's just a picture, that's not, they are, they are getting off on a child.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, not a child. Their wife as a child or their

[Monica Padman]

husband is a child that's still a child. Like the picture is, is what they're looking at and liking. And so, so yeah, that is, I, I would be creeped out for sure if anyone that liked that thought it was, that was jacking off to a picture of me when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah, I would, I would be like, that's a, that's a kid though. Like it's clearly a kid.

[Dax Shepard]

And I 17 and I. And this is so predictably gendered. I would be flattered. Like it would only. I would only. I'd only like it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's just, it might not be gendered because we also know men who've been. Who don't. Who. It's you, you. All we can speak for is you and me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm thinking. But I want to be clear. I'm saying if my partner was enjoying looking at me. Yeah, yeah, I would be flattered by that.

[Monica Padman]

I know. I'm just Saying you're speaking for you, Dax. I'm speaking for me, Monica. Of what I would find creepy and what you would find creepy. Anyway, so I. I think it's a fine line of age.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. The only reason that this conversation is, isn't just shockingly indulgent, this is actually a weird possibility. Yeah, this isn't totally. So just. I'm gonna explain it for one second.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna make some mistakes here. I'm gonna do the best I can, though I'm sure that some geneticists will, will hit me in the comments. But in general, what's confusing about aging is your DNA stays unchanged. Your DNA is your DNA, Right. And your cells replicate through mitosis, and they make an identical copy to the strand of DNA that it originated as. And so the question is, if it's making identical copies all the time, how on earth does aging even happen? Why do your cells look so different at 70 than they did at 30? So what the scientists. Oh, it's called the Yakumura property. Whatever. The scientists discovered that in mice, what really is going on with aging is that although your DNA stays identical the whole time, your epig on top, the layer on top that's deciding which of the genes it wants to turn on and off of the DNA strand, they accumulate all kinds of damage along the way. And that, that's actually what aging is, is the epigenome accumulating all these different errors that then start turning your DNA on and off in a different way than they did when you were younger. So they have figured out in these mice how to cut out the epigenome back, prune it back to before the errors occurred. And when they first did it, they took the epigenome back so far that the mice died because they immediately got young. And then their organs continued to grow as if they were infants. So then they had to fine tune, just cutting off the right amount of the epigenome. And then they've done that. They can take a mouse and take it to whatever age they decide, which is. It's wild, it's mind blowing. And so they have just now started the first human trial. So it is sincerely conceivable that people at some point in the not too distant future will be picking what physiological age they want to be.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but I just, I also don't see how you, if you're going back, though, how, why you wouldn't also go back to, to like, your brain wouldn't Be as developed either though. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Like if you're literally brain doesn't go through mitosis. That's what's unique about your gray cells that are in your brain is they are just. You have them and then they're dying but they're not going through that same process. So that's why they're not accumulating the same issues. But yeah, so your brain would. Wouldn't be affected by your cells going back. You're not losing memories or identity or any of that stuff. This is wild.

[Monica Padman]

It's wild. You're gonna see me out there as a little four year old.

[Dax Shepard]

So when you see two 18 year olds together, they might be 71 and 73.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's crazy. It's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean so that's the thing. I guess the point is if you go back to 17, the dude you look like is also going to go back to 17. So now he's got two 17 year olds with 4 year old brains that are. There's really nothing to think about.

[Monica Padman]

Right. That's true. Or I don't think a lot of guys should go back to 17 if I'm being honest.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I look way worse.

[Monica Padman]

17.

[Dax Shepard]

I got to really think about the

[Monica Padman]

best age for a lot of men.

[Dax Shepard]

But no, you have your frontal lobe. 18. 17 with a frontal lobe.

[Monica Padman]

No, I'm saying physically.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh yeah,

[Monica Padman]

yeah. It'll be interesting. And then it'll be tricky in some relationships because they'll be like could you just go back to being. Could you like please be 18 or 20? Just love the way you were when you were 20 and the way you looked and then they're like you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well you could see people the same way that like plastic surgery is. Is a slippery slope.

[Monica Padman]

Slippery.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a very, very slippery slope. Everyone knows this. You could go like I'm going to go back to 29. And you go back to. You're like I don't feel as good as I thought I was going to feel. Blah blah, blah. I get. I got it wrong. I better. I should go to 27. And you can see someone just getting caught in.

[Monica Padman]

That's how you end up as a four year old. Yeah, that's how you end up. You know if I. No, I would go back to being the baby in the picture.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

She's how old one?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. 18 years old.

[Monica Padman]

Can she talk? See this is where.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that would be frustrating actually. Horrible. Trying. No, I think you would be able to cuz you've already created all the circuitry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you would be able to talk at me. That's what would be so freaky is if you went back to six months old and you were like where's my, where's my microphone? But lift me up and I'm telling you, you're going to want to use those things. Like I've already designed how you guys are going to get me over there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. If I was the age. Or too bad you can't do it for just like a day, you know, because then it's like be a baby for a day.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Just for a day. You get to like someone to feel bad for you. You a baby.

[Dax Shepard]

I think Aaron and I would love to take the little girl in the dress out for some ice cream.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly. But I still like sushi. Like I, I'm still going to like sushi. I'm still going to like 38 year old. Oh no. Probably though my taste buds will not have been.

[Dax Shepard]

You won't be able to drink.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

Cuz how do they know if you're really 21?

[Monica Padman]

Well, you know, I'd have to have. There'd have to be a way to put. Well then I'm not doing it.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You would never go before 21.

[Monica Padman]

No, no. You. In this world you're able to prove your age, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's a tricky of your old license. And then you hold it up and it's like that's what that, that's you in 35 years. I guess you're trying to like.

[Monica Padman]

No, I think they know based on my conversation with them.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Because I'll be speaking.

[Dax Shepard]

Ask me what happened in 1991.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I'm only one year old.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right. They'll have to be some kind of really sophisticated age system and where you can demonstrate your actual age. Yes. But then because again we don't want a 16 year old who can't prove she's not 40.

[Edward Norton]

Exactly.

[Monica Padman]

That's why things are. This is going to be hard. But I, I, I actually wouldn't like sushi because my taste buds wouldn't have been developed yet. Like my brain would be developed, but not my taste buds. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know.

[Edward Norton]

Could just.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think? I know for me, I know it'll be like taking a sheet off of my face. Like I know my eyesight was so much, much better. The first thing I would notice is like oh damn, we can see. And I wonder like how much of my hearing I would notice is back in my taste Buds, Right. They definitely taste way less than I did.

[Monica Padman]

Oh wait. Taste buds begin forming in the womb around week eight of pregnancy and are fully developed and connected to the brain by week 16. Oh, so you get your full taste buds before you're even born.

[Dax Shepard]

You get most everything. Then he's gotta figure out how to use it all.

[Monica Padman]

Oh God. In middle age, around 40 years old, the regeneration rate begins to slow, leading to a gradual decline in the sense of taste over time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm 11 years into that journey, Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Now, do you think it would be unethical when I'm one looking, one looking one looking that I would get an egg retrieval? Because I'm actually 38 in my brain.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but you no longer need egg retrieval. Oh boy. No. I wonder if the eggs are more in line with the brain. I don't know if you're. They would go back. I just think it's whatever cells are reproducing start reproducing, you don't get more so.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Huh. Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's the one. Weird.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think it would be unethical to get to freeze a one year old's eggs?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite, quite unethical. Unnecessary.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I wish I had my one year old eggs now.

[Dax Shepard]

You could have Wait, waiting. You could have waited until 18. Those eggs would be just fine.

[Monica Padman]

I just. The one year old is when you have the. You have so many.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

And like you can spare all lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

When you're one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's cuz they don't have the choice.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean look, I'm in a tricky sit where I guess, I guess there were news articles when I said that I would get my daughter's eggs retreated.

[Monica Padman]

You would pay is what you said. That's the. You weren't saying you're making them, but.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Yeah, I didn't say I was making them. And also when they're an adult. The people inferred I meant as children and I, I just want to be. That's why I want to be dreadfully clear that I don't believe in harvesting eggs in minors.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know if I agree and that's great.

[Dax Shepard]

I. You shouldn't you have the freedom to not.

[Monica Padman]

I'm not saying that I. I'm not saying yes or no, but I think there's more to think about being on being at the age where I like did it twice. It wasn't great. I desperately wish I had had just like 80 eggs that were young and mature.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, young and mature.

[Monica Padman]

That's how that's.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what we're talking about. Young and mature.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Edward Norton]

It's true.

[Monica Padman]

I would definitely go back and do it. Do it at age one and get 80 and no one would even. I wouldn't even notice.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Only in this scenario because I'm a 38 year old old giving consent. That's the. Is a one year old can't give consent.

[Dax Shepard]

They can't. That's why it needs to be 18.

[Monica Padman]

18 or above. I agree. I agree ethically.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But if you could time travel, you would kidnap yourself for a day, get all the eggs out when I was one and return her to her bassinet. No one none the wiser.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It just goes to illustrate how tiny the eggs are when you think all of them can be in a baby and it's not like protruding out of their stomach, you know? You know, it's also like, how are these damn eggs? Because I'm thinking the immediate issue with your plan is the instruments. Right. Everything that's involved with egg retrieval is not going to work with a one year old. But then I was thinking. But those egg. It's crazy. Those eggs are the same size.

[Monica Padman]

They are. I know. Well, they would just use a smaller speculum. Yeah. I don't love the idea. No.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not a good thought.

[Monica Padman]

The idea, though. See, here's the thing. The things you would do to your own body. This is also fascinating. Like the things I would do to my own one year old body.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Is obviously I would never like. Yeah. The idea of any other one year old having like a tiny, tiny spec. Like. No.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I feel great about anyone looking at photos of me as a minor,

[Monica Padman]

but that's something else.

[Dax Shepard]

But I wouldn't say that for anyone else. No. I'm bonding with you right now.

[Monica Padman]

I know. But I'm so.

[Dax Shepard]

I have that opinion for me. But that's not my policy for everyone else.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's different. But I just.

[Dax Shepard]

Very similar.

[Monica Padman]

It's not though, because. Because that involved this only. The whole thing is me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

One year old me. 38 year old me. It's all me. No one.

[Dax Shepard]

The doctors that have to get involved.

[Monica Padman]

Oh. They're also one.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Jesus. Okay. The. Nope. It's gonna be a great procedure.

[Monica Padman]

Thrown up. Well, look, I mean also doctors perform stuff on babies.

[Dax Shepard]

I know.

[Monica Padman]

And like hard stuff if they have to do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I'm just saying currently.

[Monica Padman]

And I would have little Valentino and Liberty next to me for the procedure.

[Dax Shepard]

Jesus.

[Monica Padman]

I would get so many eggs.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

My current 38 year old self would feel so free.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So free.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Huh. Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Interesting.

[Monica Padman]

All right, well.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Great last fact check before summer break.

[Dax Shepard]

Cancelable. Almost. Perhaps now it'll go like. No wonder they took a break. They were in a nosedive. They were gonna definitely get canceled.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, we're, we've. We're doing great. We just want a little break. So we're taking a little one.

[Dax Shepard]

But we are a little slap happy as well. Yeah, of course.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah. Episodes will continue.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Uninterrupted new guests episodes.

[Monica Padman]

New guests. It's just the fact checks will be reruns and I do hope you'll re. Listen to some of these oldies but goodies.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, me too.

[Monica Padman]

But they won't be on YouTube, so you'll need to listen audio only. Okay. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Let's do some facts.

[Monica Padman]

Great. Okay, Edward Facts.

[Dax Shepard]

Edward P. Norton.

[Monica Padman]

What is the P stand for?

[Dax Shepard]

That's not his middle initial.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I could see his middle name being Peter.

[Dax Shepard]

Because of Alex P. Keaton is why it makes sense to me. Because Alex P. Keaton was so intelligent, if you remember. You didn't. Did you ever watch Alex P. Keaton? Do you know what that is?

[Monica Padman]

It's from Family Ties.

[Dax Shepard]

There we go.

[Monica Padman]

I knew.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Michael J. Fox.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

He was a young Republican. Republican. He wore like sweater vests to school and stuff. And he was just very smart.

[Monica Padman]

Like precocious and smart. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

Edward's middle name is Harrison Harris. That's a good middle name.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder after Harrison. George Harrison or Harrison Fords? Probably not Harrison. Oh, he's old enough for Harrison Fords.

[Monica Padman]

That would be.

[Dax Shepard]

That's how people in Michigan would pronounce his last name.

[Monica Padman]

It would be.

[Dax Shepard]

I know you've seen the new Harrison for Ford's movie.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. His birthday's around my birthday time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Is he the 21st? Okay.

[Edward Norton]

Harrison was his maternal grandmother's last name.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I should know that.

[Edward Norton]

Betty Kent Harrison.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

When's his birthday, Monica?

[Monica Padman]

The 18th.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Six days.

[Dax Shepard]

Three days off on my guess.

[Monica Padman]

Sure do emissions off California ports drive. $6.5 billion in respiratory health costs for California. California each year. Believe that the stat he's referring TO is a 2011 climate change study by Kim Knowlton, Miriam Rotkin, Elman Linda, Gabe. A lot of people. However, this was a national stat, not a California specific stat. The stat reads the total health costs associated with ozone pollution is 6.5 billion nationwide. I did find a California set that states the diesel death zones, such as West Long Beach, San Pedro and Wilmington, is where residents face localized asthma. Hospital hospitalization rates up to eight times higher than the county average, and life expectancies up to eight years lower. Easy. That's not good at all.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you imagine knowing. I remember reading that it's not great how close we are to the 101.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, that radiates out in a very predictable way, too. If you're like in a. You know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

An eighth of a mile, a tenth of a mile.

[Monica Padman]

I don't really think about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's best not to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Okay. Average car emissions in past few decades. Okay. The real world fuel efficiency by manufacturer. Tesla is the highest. 120.6 mpg. Then we got Honda.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. 28.3 Hyundai. This is not in order, actually.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

41 Hyundai, 29.8. Kia, 30.44. Let's look at Mercedes. 27.5.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. All right. That's good.

[Dax Shepard]

No American ones are on that list.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, let's see. Tesla, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, German. Right. But Ford, GM or Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, VW, Mercedes, Ford, GM.

[Dax Shepard]

What's Ford?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Ford. Ford is 23.2.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What sandbags. Those numbers for Ford and MGM. And Chrysler is. Their main business is trucks.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what they. Their bread and butter is. Nobody's buying Tesla trucks. They're not buying. I've seen very few Honda trucks. Yeah. No VW trucks.

[Monica Padman]

GM is 22.4. What is Stellantis?

[Dax Shepard]

Stellantis is an Italian company that owns Chrysler currently.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

Chrysler's passed through some different ownership over the years. And currently Stellantis, who also owns Fiat and some other.

[Monica Padman]

Got it.

[Edward Norton]

Dodge Maserati.

[Monica Padman]

Dodge Maserati.

[Dax Shepard]

That's part of Chrysler.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we had a Dodge Caravan.

[Edward Norton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Quite a while.

[Dax Shepard]

We had a Pacifica. Remember?

[Monica Padman]

It was purple.

[Dax Shepard]

Fucking gorgeous. Black on black.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That was great.

[Dax Shepard]

I love that vehicle.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. How much Has Robert Downey Jr. Made in Marvel?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

According to Comic book resources has one reported MCU. Total salary ranges from three.

[Dax Shepard]

Took your breath away.

[Monica Padman]

386 to 421 million.

[Dax Shepard]

All in.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I assume. Alleged salary by movie. Alleged Original Iron Man 2 million. Iron Man 2. 10 million. Avengers. 50 million. Iron Man 350 million. Avengers, Age of Ultron. 50 to 80. 80 million. Captain America. Civil War. 64 million. Spider Man Homecoming. 10 to 15 million. Avengers Infinity War. 75 million. Avengers End Game. 75 million. This does not Include many cameos in other Marvel movies.

[Dax Shepard]

God damn, son. The last one that was reported was, I think, to start the new one. It's a hundred.

[Monica Padman]

I just wish.

[Dax Shepard]

But then have you also heard this thing about John Johnny Depp, which is fascinating. During the Amber Heard dust up, Disney kind of went on record and took. Well, I want to be careful. I don't know specifically he. What he interpreted is that they had shamed him publicly during that thing. And then after he was kind of vindicated or at least not found liable for any of that stuff, he was asked if he would do another Pirates. And he said, I wouldn't do another pirates for $300 million because of the way they treated me.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And I read two weeks ago that Disney just offered him $301 million to do.

[Monica Padman]

Is he doing it?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. See if you can find an update on that ride. But I was like, 300 million to

[Monica Padman]

go for one movie?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And guess what? He's worth it. They wouldn't be offering him that if that wasn't worth it.

[Monica Padman]

How much do they think they're going to make on them?

[Dax Shepard]

A billion and a half dollars. Dollars?

[Monica Padman]

But it's cost so much to make them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but if it costs 5, let's say they spend 400 million on it, they pay him 300 million, there's 700 million. They make 1.5 billion, they're going to keep of that 850 million. That's just the release of it. That's not any vod, any streaming rights, any merchandising. So if they can come out about the other. If they can turn a key and make $150 million by paying him 300. Any company should do that.

[Edward Norton]

It's in development. And Johnny Depp's involvement will depend on if he likes the way the part's written.

[Dax Shepard]

Good for him.

[Monica Padman]

Good for him.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I'll offer you $301. Yeah. Let me see how it turns out. Can you imagine?

[Monica Padman]

No. Who wrote the Mike Nichols biography? Was it Mark Harris? Yes. Mike Nichols A Life was written by Mark Harris and published in 2021.

[Dax Shepard]

Beautiful biography.

[Monica Padman]

I've read some of it as well. I like it. I mean, I really like it. I just, you know, I don't finish books.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you start books. That's your thing.

[Monica Padman]

That's kind of my thing.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a bookstarter.

[Monica Padman]

I hate that about myself.

[Dax Shepard]

Not a fire starter.

[Monica Padman]

But you know what? It' better. I decided it's better to read some of a book than none of a book and to be reading. Just to be reading.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep. Another study that just came out, 30,000 athletes, study by university. They look into everything. Reps, sets, hours in the gym. And what they found is that the chasm between doing nothing and doing a little bit is enormous, and the chasm between. Between doing a moderate amount and a ton of heavy training is very small.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

So your immediate gains and rewards are very soon for you to grab. Everyone should do it.

[Monica Padman]

Do it. Just read.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, just do it. That's the same.

[Monica Padman]

Is that all the facts that. Yeah. Oh, wait, is it? Hold on.

[Dax Shepard]

Who knows?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She does good stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Just good stuff.

[Edward Norton]

All right.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you. Love you.