Jackie Tohn Returns

Summary

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Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Episode Summary: Jackie Tohn Returns (July 13, 2026)

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Episode Overview

Returning guest Jackie Tohn, actor and musician (“Nobody Wants This,” “Glow,” “The Boys”), joins Dax Shepard and Monica Padman for a conversation mixing humor, vulnerability, and raw honesty. The episode’s core is Jackie’s intensely personal journey discovering she carries the BRCA1 gene mutation—a high-risk factor for breast and ovarian cancers—her decision to undergo preventive surgery, and the ripple effects on her identity, anxiety, and perspective. Alongside this, the trio dives into body image, resilience in Hollywood, identity, and friendship, with trademark banter and candid explorations of fear and growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jackie’s BRCA Journey and Preventive Surgery

• Discovery and Family Background

  • Jackie’s father, previously healthy, discovered lumps (called “nodules” by his wife) under his arm. After a biopsy, the diagnosis was metastatic carcinomas (13:29).
  • Genetic testing revealed her father was BRCA1 positive, compelling Jackie to get tested: "So I get tested. I'm BRCA positive… I don't Google. I'm not Googling. I'm a hypochondriac. I'm a neurotic." (16:23)

• Genetic Risk and Decision-Making

  • Jackie learned she had an 85% chance of breast cancer, 65% chance for ovarian: “I get these numbers...85%. I get chills every time. And I start to sweat. 85%." (20:15)
  • She describes the emotional whiplash—from calm strategic compartmentalizer to scared patient (“I just was like, these are the doctors I’m going to. And I am a machine and I am getting these surgeries and I am doing this.” 22:33)
  • Discusses the complex logistics: finding the right doctors (oncologist, gynecological oncologist, breast surgeon, plastic surgeon), genetic counselor, and understanding options for mastectomy and reconstruction (19:19–20:11).

• The Surgical Journey

  • Jackie details options like immediate implants vs. expanders, the risks (necrosis, "phantom limb" sensations, etc.), and the overwhelming micro-decisions (37:19–38:24).
  • Shares a memorable surgery anecdote: post-biopsy bleeding incident—“like an episode of Grey’s Anatomy... is there a nurse? I'm bleeding!” (26:24).
  • Partnering with Myriad Genetics, encourages genetic screening, especially for Ashkenazi Jews (28:33, 85:01).

2. Body Image, Identity, and Femininity

• Breast & Body Conversation
  • Trio discusses their own body changes, breast shapes, and social attitudes (“At first, you’re a girl, and you’re like, ‘I must, I must, I must increase my bust.’” – Dax, 07:53)
• Identity After Surgery
  • Monica: “Did it do anything to your identity? Did it do anything to your female identity?” (63:48)
  • Jackie: “Believe it or not, it really didn’t. My boobs are not why I feel like a woman...” (63:53).
  • Emphasizes the non-centrality of traditional markers; for her, being funny/creative is core to her selfhood.

3. Anxiety, Resilience & Perspective on Fear

• Coping With Risk and the Unknown
  • Discusses anxiety pre- and post-diagnosis. Jackie found actual events easier than endless worry: “When you actually have the thing that you’re terrified of…you figure out the steps to get through it and you’re better on the other side.” (50:29)
  • Dax: “All these things you fear…I’ve walked through many of them now, and they’re fine. You show up, you arrive at the thing.” (50:52)
• Philosophical Take on Death and Vulnerability
  • The group reflects on the meaning of death, the fragility of life, and the importance of embracing life’s messiness and time: “you’re on this planet for a minute and you literally get to think about whatever you want...” (53:37)
• Humor and Deflection
  • Throughout, humor is used both as a coping mechanism and a bonding tool, as when Dax proposes a side podcast called "Knockers" (46:41), or Monica and Jackie bond by compulsive knocking to ward off bad luck (46:24).

4. Community & Support

• Sisterhood & Shared Experiences
  • Jackie emphasizes the deep support she found in other women who'd gone through mastectomy/reconstruction: "The sisterhood. She wrote me right back...the thing about this fucking journey...it makes me cry." (42:00)
  • Creating connection through story-sharing, DMs, and showing one another their “new” boobs to demystify surgery and boost confidence (47:35).
• Encouragement for Testing & Self-Advocacy
  • Repeated flag-waving for genetic testing: "If you are going through this, you can do them. You'll just do them." (57:48)
  • Four reasons for genetic testing: rare cancer, multiple/repetitive cancers, young diagnosis, Ashkenazi Jewish heritage (85:01).

5. Jackie’s Career Journey: Persistence in Hollywood

• Long Road, Many Pivots
  • Jackie reflects on years of relentless pursuit: stand-up, music, acting, and the necessity to diversify for survival: “I was clawing… My whole career has just been this absolute…what can I do? Because all I want to do is make art and be a professional personality.” (73:12)
  • Dax: “I look at your thing and I’m like, this fucking bitch wouldn’t quit. It’s so rad.” (75:31)
• Validation & Redefining Success
  • Jackie: “No one’s high-fiving you for your persistence...But the big difference is...I’m not that fragile. I got it.” (57:16)
  • Emphasizes the importance of live performance for both validation and keeping hope alive (78:37).
  • On performing for status: “You just get to a point in your life and you’re like...it’s just nice to [not perform]” (81:00).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emotional Coping:
  “Catastrophizing in life that we do. When you actually have the thing that you’re terrified of, and you figure out the steps to get through it, and you’re better on the other side…There was no anxiety at that point.”
  — Jackie Tohn (50:29)

• On Identity Post-Mastectomy:
  “Believe it or not. It really didn’t. It didn’t at all.…My boobs are not why I feel like a woman. I mean, no part of me is really...if I woke up and I wasn’t funny tomorrow...but if I have to get a life-saving surgery…”
  — Jackie Tohn (63:53–64:58)

• On Why Get Genetic Testing:
  “The four reasons that you should be getting genetic tested: rare cancer, repetitive multiple cancers, young cancer, or if you're an Ashkenazi Jew.”
  — Jackie Tohn (85:01)

• Facing the Odds:
  “I am a badass warrior who did these crazy difficult things and I just, just did them. And if you are going through this, you can do them.”
  — Jackie Tohn (57:17–57:48)

• Body Image Humor:
  “You have a Birkin bag in your bra.”
  — Dax Shepard (12:14)

  “I was in a tit trough. Of course. My other nickname in high school.”
  — Jackie Tohn (26:27)

• On Friendship in the Industry:
  “I’m not more friends with you now that you’re on Nobody Wants Us, and I’m not less friends with you…it has no impact on [the friendship].”
  — Dax Shepard (80:43)

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Important Timestamps

• Jackie’s Breast Surgery & BRCA discovery:

  • Family background, describing father’s diagnosis: 13:29
  • Jackie’s own diagnosis & emotional response: 16:23, 20:15
  • Logistics of surgery & post-surgery bleed incident: 19:19–26:27

• Body Image & Identity:

  • Early banter about breasts, body shapes: 04:19–08:44
  • Monica & Jackie on femininity and identity: 63:48–64:58

• Anxiety & Coping:

  • Emotional strategies, anxiety after diagnosis: 45:32–50:29

• Hollywood Journey:

  • Persistence and pivoting after rejection: 73:12–78:59

• On Genetic Testing (and where to do it):

  • Myriad & learnmyrisk.com explained: 43:19, 85:01

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Takeaways

• Empowerment through Knowledge:
  — Genetic testing can be life-saving. Knowing your risk, especially for those with a family history or Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, allows for proactive health decisions.

• Resilience is Built, Not Given:
  — True to the “Armchair Expert” ethos, Jackie’s story shines as proof that people are more resilient and capable than we fear—action begets strength.

• It’s Okay to Be Vulnerable, and Laugh:
  — The mix of medical realism, emotional openness, and joking illustrates that surviving tough experiences is often a blend of sobering truth and keeping a sense of humor.

• No One is Alone:
  — Jackie’s journey showed the value—and necessity—of community, sisterhood, and candid conversations about subjects that are often kept private.

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Resources Mentioned

• Genetic Testing:
  • Myriad Genetics: learnmyrisk.com

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Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Jackie Tohn]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

We have our friend in today.

[Monica Padman]

Our friend is here.

[Dax Shepard]

She's returning.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Returning guest Jackie Tone. Jackie Tone is an actor and a musician. Nobody wants this glow. The boys, Gen V. We didn't even talk about the boys with her. I love seeing her on the boys because I'm obsessed with the boys. I forget she's on it. Yeah. So she pops up and it's a pop out and I love it.

[Monica Padman]

It's fun. Pop outs are fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And she's here today and she's telling a very, very personal story that she's gone through simultaneously to all this wonderful stuff and it's a harrowing tale. Please enjoy. Jackie Tone. We get support from quints.

[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Jackie Tohn]

He's an object.

[Monica Padman]

He's an.

[Dax Shepard]

This motherfucker.

[Jackie Tohn]

This motherfucker.

[Dax Shepard]

Hey. Hi, ladies.

[Jackie Tohn]

Don't you.

[Monica Padman]

Sir. Is that a new shirt?

[Dax Shepard]

It's an old shirt.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. It's a new, old shirt.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a new, old shirt.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's explicitly not a new shirt.

[Monica Padman]

No, but it's new to me.

[Jackie Tohn]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have a new shirt on? I do have a new shirt on. You always have a new shirt. And you guys have very similar shirts.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Jackie Tohn]

We did very similar costumes today. I almost didn't have a bra under mine. And then I thought we were talking about the New Year's. Maybe I should have a bra under.

[Monica Padman]

Or maybe you shouldn't. You know, I kind of feel like

[Dax Shepard]

you should have gone raw dog.

[Monica Padman]

Well, there's still time in the middle. Feel free.

[Jackie Tohn]

Never know. Although it is like yours, it's the almost exact same material. It is see through. You will see them.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's not just like, if I wore that shirt, you'd see the nips.

[Monica Padman]

Well, we want these numbers.

[Dax Shepard]

We want to see. We want to see your breasts.

[Jackie Tohn]

I have to apologize, guys. I made a huge mistake, not by

[Monica Padman]

coming here, but by.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What's funny is there was a half moment where you were saying, we have the same. And you were about to say material to Monica, but I was like, hold on.

[Rob]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Is she about to say? We have the same breasts now? No. Like, I was wondering if that's where it was going.

[Monica Padman]

No, there is a bit of a size difference.

[Jackie Tohn]

Are we D? We D. We double D. We double. Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So double D. Are we doubling our D?

[Jackie Tohn]

Are we doubling our D?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

I used to be a 32D, believe it or not. Them yitters.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Yes.

[Jackie Tohn]

Now they're a B.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, hold on.

[Jackie Tohn]

They're smaller. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You had 32D. We've known each other for.

[Jackie Tohn]

But here's what's Jackie had big.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

18 years.

[Jackie Tohn]

I will say that makes me want to cry and feel excited at the same time. So what?

[Dax Shepard]

18 years.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. That's not a real number. I'm 17. So having known someone 18, the math sort of doesn't. But my titties were from here.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. From the side of your ribcage for the listener, actually.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Jackie Tohn]

We're recording Always How I Live. So my titty used to go from under my arm into here. And so in order for a underwire not to dig into me, it had to be a D sized underwire. So it's a big. And then when I was getting my reconstruction, the doctor was like, if we went with your same width, your tits, your implants would be enormous.

[Dax Shepard]

Really?

[Jackie Tohn]

Because my.

[Monica Padman]

Cause it starts.

[Jackie Tohn]

Tissue literally was under my arm to here. And so I had these, like, nice wide, and they were perky forever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, do you think the width has to do with the perkiness?

[Jackie Tohn]

I do. Because there's so much. It's not like there's so much lateral support. Yes, you have the lateral support. You have the whole rib cage sort of getting behind you.

[Monica Padman]

This is science.

[Dax Shepard]

Counter theory, Please. Just you look at people. The look on Monica's face, it's like, okay, I want to hear how this

[Monica Padman]

going to be to the science. Jackie just showed us.

[Dax Shepard]

First of all, you guys are probably right. So I'm not saying that this would invalidate that theory. It's just, you see, humans, we come in a lot of variety, and there's just taut skin and loose skin. I've been fortunate enough to been with enough nude ladies. I've seen a lot of different body types, and I wonder if it's just like an elasticity in your skin that you have a lot of or you don't.

[Jackie Tohn]

I don't know the answer. And I don't think that that's invalidating what we're saying at all.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe some combination.

[Jackie Tohn]

Well, I will also say, of course, I already knew. I was like, I'm going to come on this podcast and say too much because these are my people. But the doctor said to me, she was like, well, the good news is you're in your 40s. You'll get a little lift. They'll be perky for the rest of your life. Yeah. And then I took my shirt off and she was like, okay, so not as much for you.

[Dax Shepard]

We're not gonna get as much vertical lift.

[Jackie Tohn]

That was a huge compliment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Cause she was like, I thought they

[Monica Padman]

were gonna droop to the floor.

[Jackie Tohn]

And I was like, no, the girls have stayed put. God bless em. I know there's a lot of things genetically I was not gifted with.

[Dax Shepard]

In a lot. You were.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. A lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. You're very attractive, you're very witty, you're very fast. You have a good voice. In fact, as we make this list, it's almost hard to feel bad for. Whatever.

[Jackie Tohn]

Wow, that's true.

[Monica Padman]

It feels like you kind of tricked us into giving you a lot of compliments.

[Jackie Tohn]

I did. And we're staring into each other's eyes and I'll have it no other way. I'm going to put my lip on.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, put your lip on.

[Monica Padman]

Dax, since you love physics.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh. I do.

[Monica Padman]

So much.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. I'm a physics nerd.

[Jackie Tohn]

Nerd.

[Monica Padman]

It looks really nice. I think Jackie's theory really makes sense. I believe it because mine are also wide. I believe it.

[Jackie Tohn]

I remember doing a play years ago and you know, like, you don't know what your friends. I mean, you have an idea what your friends tits looks like, but you really don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Jackie Tohn]

And then I did a play and all the girls backstage were like, I can't believe those are your tits.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, people were really stopping.

[Jackie Tohn]

That's really nice. So I Learned in my 20s, like, oh, and then I saw everyone else's and they were gorgeous to me, but definitely shaped differently than my personal yidders.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't it so stressful, our body parts? Like at first you're a girl and you're like, I must, I must, I must increase my bus. You want knockers, but now, how buoyant are the knockers? What are the areola sizes? How long are the nip?

[Jackie Tohn]

Like there's banana shapes.

[Dax Shepard]

How misshapen are they? They're all going to be a little asymmetrical. Yeah, those are greats. We call them ski slopes or bananas. It's great. It's where the breast kind of just naturally comes up at the end.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

That's fun. That's exciting.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's super fun.

[Dax Shepard]

A lot of guys I know covet ski slopes. I don't even know why sea slopes works. Because if you think about a ski slope, just it should be ski jump.

[Jackie Tohn]

Sure, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Downhill long jump.

[Jackie Tohn]

Of course. I think the catchy way to call it is a downhill long jump.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a downhill long jump.

[Monica Padman]

I think it's fairly rock. The respectful verbiage for it.

[Dax Shepard]

But the amount of stress we all have over our body parts because it's like you have a penis. Of course, as a boy, you want the biggest one among your friends. Immediately you understand? That's the goal. No one sits you down and tell no. Those penises come out and everyone's like, most drawn, like backstage at your play, all eyes go to the biggest penis. Guys are pumped. Yeah. Wow, look at this. You know, and then you have the shape of your erection. That's its own, its own thing. It's its own journey also.

[Jackie Tohn]

Balls.

[Dax Shepard]

Balls.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, my God. I remember when I was a teenager, I had a friend who had like enormous balls.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, Chimp.

[Jackie Tohn]

And his name was Brandon. And he showed everybody all the time. We look back and obviously I think this would all be very not okay now, but it was like. It's like someone would be like, yo, you got to show everybody your balls. And he would just open up his zipper and take him out of his zipper and put him in his hand.

[Dax Shepard]

He was good at it.

[Jackie Tohn]

He was good at huge, really big balls.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now, now let me ask you.

[Jackie Tohn]

Hanging balls.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Does that do anything to you? It doesn't, right? Yeah. Like, it doesn't. You don't think there's some primitive level, like, let's just start with so much semen in there. Great apes. If you're in a competitive breeding situation, like chimps are, they don't know who's, who's. They're all competing and everyone's. The balls are enormous. They have the biggest balls mass ratio of any primate. Right. The gorilla, which is enormous, can't even find them. They're two little peas. Because he's not competing with any other males, he's in charge. He has access to all the females. And so that predicts the balls is how much competition there is. So do you think in some primitive level when you see those. Well, this is what we were hoping as guys, but I'm learning now is not the case. Would see those enormous plums and go like, well, there's a fit.

[Monica Padman]

There's a lot of babies in there.

[Jackie Tohn]

You know what, though? This semen could be, you know, fragmented, crooked. Could it just be all crooked come? It could crooked come, crooked come. It could shoot completely that way and it never really gets in that direct straight to your.

[Dax Shepard]

He's in you yet you're like, God on. Get in my hair, get in my hair.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. This episode is a mess. But on the flip side, two tiny pea sized balls. Then like the gorillas also then kind of is high status. It's like my balls are so small. I get, I get to pick where

[Dax Shepard]

I don't have to.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

These guys are all shooting it out like the old west, from the hip.

[Jackie Tohn]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Spray, spray, spray, spray, spray.

[Monica Padman]

They have to.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I covet that guy's balls. What was his name? Brandon.

[Jackie Tohn]

Brandon.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I wonder how they've held up.

[Jackie Tohn]

I would say they're probably like, don't you feel similar to. No, similar to. You got that weight on that scrote and it's got to be pulling them down.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And the scrot's so interesting because the scrot's all over the place. It decides how long it wants to be, whatever the temperature is. So you don't even know if you have perky or saggy balls. It's like, ask me the temp.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah, the temp was the humidity. Colorado. Or am I.

[Dax Shepard]

Am I in Hawaii?

[Jackie Tohn]

Truly?

[Monica Padman]

They're long nipples. I guess they change.

[Dax Shepard]

But isn't it sad? I feel bad for all of us. The stress over your areolas and quirkiness and the size. And you even said d cup thing. But maybe you're.

[Jackie Tohn]

And my whole life, people were like, there's no way you're a D. I'm like, check my bra tag. I don't know what to tell you,

[Dax Shepard]

but you could just wear a G, right? And be like, check my bra.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah. There's just so much room. The front fabric is like a sail. It's just, like, so much fabric. Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a Birkin bag in your bra.

[Jackie Tohn]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I can. Mary Poppins itch.

[Dax Shepard]

We were fast forwarding, so let's catch up, because that actually was one of my questions, and you've kind of already answered it, but alas, tell us how you even discovered that you had the BRAC Tell us why you're here.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Brc, my friends, it's nice to see you both. And I think w. We can start recording now, and we can go ahead and just turn the.

[Dax Shepard]

Hit the record button and the button

[Jackie Tohn]

that records it and go ahead and start that now. And then I start acting totally different. Well, thank you guys so much for having me here today. You know, I think it's really important

[Dax Shepard]

that I spread this message of healing and journeying in my health.

[Jackie Tohn]

Well, that, too. And wiseassery.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's start with your parents. Okay, that seems like the appropriate phrase to start. We've had you many times, and I'm sure we covered them a little bit, but both physical ed teachers. Yes. In Long Island. They were teaching in Brooklyn.

[Jackie Tohn]

They were teaching in Brooklyn, but I grew up on Long island, so my parents are the best. And unlike so many Jewish families, cancer wasn't in the genes. We didn't think heart disease. We've talked about this. Our dads, heart disease, stroke, high blood

[Dax Shepard]

pressure, any number of Psychosomatic conditions.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, please. And actually psycho conditioning. And dreads and anxieties. All of it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And so last year, my dad found these lumps under his arm, which my mom, for the first few months, only called nodules. I think Jews have an aversion to saying the thing with the scary name. She was just like. And so daddy has these Daddy founders.

[Dax Shepard]

Your father's nodules are back.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy.

[Dax Shepard]

We got a call this morning. Who was it? Your father's nodules.

[Jackie Tohn]

Your father's nodules. They called on the phone. I said, oh, so my dad found these bumps under his arm. And then. And by the time they were like, let's just get them out and we'll biopsy them, it turned out they were metastatic carcinomas. And we were like, what?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, metastatic means the cancer's traveled away from the original site of origin. Right.

[Jackie Tohn]

And what's crazy is, to this day, they cannot find the original site of origin. So he's some medical enigma where he has metastatic carcinomas that they do not know where they metastasized from.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love medical marvels.

[Dax Shepard]

Why don't they think it's just breast cancer?

[Jackie Tohn]

They kind of do now.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Jackie Tohn]

They kind of do now. But also, if it's breast cancer, then they're not metastatic. It's just breast cancer. But for some reason, they know it's

[Dax Shepard]

metastatic, so that must look different or something.

[Jackie Tohn]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I add a weird, interesting thing?

[Jackie Tohn]

You better.

[Dax Shepard]

We talked to someone recently about extra nipples. And what we found out is that when people have those extra nipples, they often grow in the armpit. They're not like on your pec or your breast.

[Jackie Tohn]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

They're generally in your armpit, upper arm. This person has two nipples.

[Monica Padman]

I'm talking about breast tissue. It's just like additional breast tissue. Exactly. And they lactate.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's where the nipples grew. And they're functional?

[Monica Padman]

They're functional, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

So anyways, so he finds this out. They can't figure out where the primary cancer is. And so he does this panel of genetic testing. Because if he's positive for this, it more likely would be pancreatic. If he's positive for this, it more likely would be colon. And he came back as BRCA positive. BRCA 1.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell us what that is.

[Jackie Tohn]

BRCA is a genetic mutation, and you are positive. So I believe everybody has the BRCA gene. I'm positive for a mutation of the BRCA gene that then unfortunately gives you a very high Predetermination. Very high chance of getting BRCA for women. Breast and ovarian cancer. My dad tests positive, they say to him, tell your kids to get tested. Cause if you have a daughter, that's really where the problem is. Men, often. It doesn't even materialize, really, there's an increased chance.

[Dax Shepard]

But when you don't have ovaries or breasts.

[Jackie Tohn]

Correct.

[Dax Shepard]

Except for your father, who might have extra nipples under his arm.

[Monica Padman]

Did he get his nodules removed?

[Jackie Tohn]

He did.

[Monica Padman]

Then he was fine.

[Jackie Tohn]

Well, then he did radiation. And I have the little video of him ringing the bell. And so he was like, they did a full CAT scan, PET scan, all the scans, cancer free.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Jackie Tohn]

And yet it metastasized from somewhere strange. I get tested, I'm BRCA positive. And then I'm like, all right, I don't Google. I'm not Googling. I'm a hypochondriac. I'm a neurotic.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Let's pause for half a second because, yeah, we need to know your disposition a little bit. We? You know this famous story. Monica and I were watching Kristen read her results from her 23andMe she misread it, but she truly believed this. She's like, oh, I have early onset Alzheimer's thing. Okay. And then, oh, I have the Bruka gene. And then. Oh, yeah, mostly Polish.

[Monica Padman]

There was another one, too.

[Dax Shepard]

There were three she just rattled off.

[Jackie Tohn]

Horrible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The ones you almost don't want to take the test.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, we.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, in case you find that Alzheimer's. Huh? Oh, I have brca. Oh, I have palsy or something.

[Dax Shepard]

And then the next thing.

[Monica Padman]

And then. Oh, man, I do that cilantro thing. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

We've never seen anyone take news like this in our lives to this day. She was non plus.

[Jackie Tohn]

Is she really BRCA positive?

[Dax Shepard]

No, she misread her thing. But she sincerely thought she was.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And we got to see the real reaction. We were like, oh, my God. We're kind of bracing for, like, wait, we're gonna lose you in 18 months. So Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and we have a couple months. Yes. Let's start planning.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie Tohn]

It was. So anyways, girls come in here.

[Dax Shepard]

I set her as, like, the far end of a spectrum.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. And then. So where are you at on that spectrum?

[Jackie Tohn]

Well, I'm very proud of myself. Cause I realized, as I think a lot of us do, when you are imagining something happening to you, you can catastrophize, you can have anxiety about It. You can be hysterical crying about it, and then the thing happens to you. And I was a machine. Joe and I were supposed to go to England, Ireland, and Scotland last summer, and we canceled the trip, and I went on a tour of Los Angeles, meeting the doct that this oncologist told me I would need. I say that it's like someone handing you a nail and being like, build the house. And you're like, who? How?

[Monica Padman]

When? Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Where is the plot of land?

[Dax Shepard]

Where's the wood?

[Jackie Tohn]

Where's the how?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

So that's basically what happened. They were like, you are BRCA positive. I found out. Good luck. And then a couple days later, the doctor's office calls to schedule a surgery. And I'm like, what surgery? I just have this gene. My dad got the nodules. Dad got the metastatic carcinomas removed. Like, what surgery? Then I start really crying, right? And then I find out that I need a gynecological oncologist, which is not a combination of terms I'm interested in. Right. Yeah. A regular oncologist to holistically look at the whole thing. A breast surgeon. A breast plastic surgeon. Because those are two completely different jobs. The person that removes the tissue and the person that does the reconstruction.

[Dax Shepard]

Do they leave you open while they just clock in? It's like tag team.

[Jackie Tohn]

Wrestling is like tag team.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good. I just don't want them open. Opening you up twice.

[Jackie Tohn]

This is a very interesting thing that I actually am excited to talk about, which is you can do the surgery two different ways. Then the fifth doctor, because of course, there's more than four. The fifth doctor is a genetic counselor. And it was the genetic counselor, this rad woman at Providence who she looked at all my genetics and everything that they tested for, and she was. Who deemed that I had an 85% chance of breast cancer and a 65% chance of ovarian cancer. So I'm doing the ovaries soon, but I haven't done them yet. And I did the boobs first.

[Dax Shepard]

Top down, top down, top down. Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

That's why they called me a convertible in high school.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't know why until now?

[Jackie Tohn]

They knew this time would come.

[Dax Shepard]

That was good. That was fast.

[Monica Padman]

Really good.

[Dax Shepard]

Jack, back to your assets.

[Monica Padman]

I love you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you guys.

[Jackie Tohn]

So many assets. It's just genetics. So then I get these numbers, and now. Well, now I understand why. The doctor's office called and said, when do you want to schedule your surgery? Your girl has a hundred fucking chance. Yeah, 85. I get chills every time. And I start to sweat. 85%.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not a great number.

[Jackie Tohn]

Even 50. 50. You go like, all right, I gotta get this done soon. 85. You're like.

[Monica Padman]

But glass half full, it is a number that you can't ignore that makes

[Jackie Tohn]

me want to cry. That was exactly how I looked at it.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, repeat that? I got distracted six months ago with your convertible joke because it was so good.

[Jackie Tohn]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

And I thought there was another version of it, and then I was distracted by that. I'm owning it, and I apologize.

[Jackie Tohn]

I appreciate that.

[Dax Shepard]

I was gonna say that I thought they called you gas pump because you like to top off.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Well, glad we got that out.

[Dax Shepard]

We just wanted to get in a

[Monica Padman]

bit rocky, you know, A bit as she liked.

[Dax Shepard]

It was terrible. Okay, sorry, sorry.

[Monica Padman]

No, I just said glass half full is 85 is a number that you can't ignore.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

So you can't just be like, oh, maybe I'll deal with it, maybe not.

[Jackie Tohn]

No, you're dealing with them. And that's exactly the silver lining I looked at. Cause I said with my neuroses and my mental shit, you're giving me a number. Like 45.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm going, oh, you could go crazy.

[Jackie Tohn]

I could do advanced screening for years. They said, before we do the double mastectomy, we wanna make sure you don't already have cancer, so we're gonna give you an mri. And then I found out that they didn't like what the MRI looked like. On my way to present at the Creative Arts Emmys.

[Monica Padman]

Gah.

[Jackie Tohn]

So I'm in the car.

[Monica Padman]

You shouldn't be picking up the phone.

[Jackie Tohn]

I shouldn't have been picking up the phone, but these doctors are really hard to reach. Oh, true. Yeah. And she said she'd call either way, so I didn't think it was a thing of only calling with bad news. Also, if I saw I missed a call, I would be so fucking preoccupied.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right.

[Jackie Tohn]

So I was like. I just answered. And she was like, I think everything's gonna be okay, but I don't know. And there's some suspicions, cellular groupings. And I think we want to do another mri. So I was scared. And then I went and presented.

[Dax Shepard]

How'd you present? Were you good?

[Jackie Tohn]

I think I've smashed it because I might be a psychopath.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

I've asked my therapist.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a compartmentalizer.

[Jackie Tohn]

I mean, that's great. Compartmentalizer. Though I've realized during this journey to

[Dax Shepard]

a point of, like, sociopathy.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah,

[Jackie Tohn]

truly. But I've asked my therapist. I've been like, I don't even know looking back how I did it. I just did it. I just was like, these are the doctors I'm going to. And I am a machine and I am getting these surgeries and I am doing this. So cut back to. I get the mri. She doesn't like it again. And she's like, we're going to buy it.

[Dax Shepard]

She's so fussy, this one. She is. Can I like it? What do you like about it?

[Monica Padman]

The standards are so high.

[Jackie Tohn]

And that's the other thing. I'm like, get off my back.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

So then she doesn't like it again. And now she's like, we're going to do a biopsy.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I ask quickly.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Why we're getting in there and removing everything?

[Jackie Tohn]

That is a good question.

[Dax Shepard]

Just so that we would know to start chemo as well or something.

[Jackie Tohn]

I think maybe I actually don't know the answer. But what I think the answer is is that if you have cancer, a double mastectomy is sufficient. But sometimes you can't keep your nipples depending on where the cancer is. If it's right there by your nipple, you're gonna lose your nipples. And if the cancer is here, they have to really focus on getting that tissue out and getting everything out. And also then you have to be starting with the PET scans and CAT scans, seeing if it's anywhere else.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Okay.

[Jackie Tohn]

Exactly. With ovaries, the challenging part is there's no good screening for ovaries. It doesn't exist. It's 20, 26 and the screening does not exist.

[Dax Shepard]

Meaning they can give you an MRI on your ovaries or.

[Jackie Tohn]

No, they can do an ultrasound. So Pelvic Ultra put the wand in and they do the diagnostic. The problem is your ovaries. Speaking of gorilla balls, they're these little tiny grape sized things in your body and they just don't have the advanced surveillance. Like with breasts. When you get an MRI and a biopsy, you can find out if you're stage zero, stage negative one, you can find out if there's a grouping of cells that they don't like that they're going to keep an eye on that. They're just going to get them out of there before you're even stage one. Like brain, breasts, surveillance is best of the best in cancer land. I wanna tell everybody about the whole journey and what to expect because it's crazy and I somehow made it to my 40s without anyone talking to me. About Braca. I'd vaguely heard that it was maybe that thing that happened with Angelina Jolie.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jackie Tohn]

But I remember thinking, like, oh, God, that's so extreme. How her. How her to be like, you know what? I'm getting them taken off completely, which is what a lot of people thought was very extreme when I was doing it.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think the underlying current of that is, like, some weird jealousy over where it looks like, oh, yeah, you're so hot, you don't even care if you cut off your boobs? Maybe. Do you think that was driving the anger?

[Jackie Tohn]

Very possible, socially, but my thing was more like, you know, she wears, like, Billy Pop Thornton's blood around her neck. You're so extra edgy. But, like, it turns out you have 100% chance of getting cancer. What are you gonna do? Leave them there? Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Turns out she wasn't edgy. She was super safe.

[Jackie Tohn]

Correct?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah. As brilliant as she is. So basically, when I got the mri, then I went back for a second one, then I had to go back for a third one. And then when I got my breast biopsied, I was just unlucky. And I was waiting in the biopsy office afterward. They numb your breast? And it was my right breast. And so I'm sitting there, and then I feel something soaking wet at my stomach. And I look down. It is not good. I am bleeding from your.

[Dax Shepard]

From the biopsy.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah. And they had already stitched it and closed it.

[Dax Shepard]

And am I crazy in thinking that that's a very controlled procedure? It's done with a scope, and it seems, like, not something that would lead to great bleeding.

[Jackie Tohn]

That's right. And I'm out of it because I took a Xanax before the third MRI. Because you're in the machine for 45 minutes, claustrophobic. The crazy loud noises. You're laying on your stomach. Your tits are in, like, a hole in the mri.

[Dax Shepard]

A trough.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Jackie Tohn]

A trough. Theaters are in a trough.

[Dax Shepard]

Tit trough.

[Jackie Tohn]

And I'm in a tit trough. Of course. My other nickname in high school. And I'm in tit trough. And they do the biopsy. I don't feel anything. Everything's fine. I'm sitting in the waiting room because this is another crazy thing. They give you a mammogram right after you get a breast mri. With a biopsy, it seems reverse squishing it all.

[Dax Shepard]

We should flip that order.

[Jackie Tohn]

So I'm waiting in the room to do the mammogram, and that's when I realize. And I am, like, out of it, and I'm on a chill pill and I'm terrified. And I like an episode of Grey's Anatomy. I just, like, run into the hallway and I'm screaming. I don't scream. This is me. It's loud all the time, but I'm not screaming.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And I'm just going like, is there a nurse? I'm bleeding. And a woman comes by with, like, a trash can. She runs over to me and I'm like, I need a nurse. Thank you so much. And she starts laughing a little bit. She's like, I am a nurse. These are soiled linens. I'm not a janitor. And I was like, okay. And then she takes me into some woman's office. She was like, excuse us. The nurse in the office leaves and she's like opening this thing and someone has to come up from downstairs and restitch. And it was like a whole.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

In her office.

[Jackie Tohn]

In somebody's office.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah, it was wild. It just wasn't stitched correctly. They were asking if I took, like, Advil the five days prior because my blood was. And I was like, I didn't. I'm a student.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, you tell me you are a student.

[Jackie Tohn]

Don't take Advil. I won't.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, I'm always insulted when the first line of inquiry is like, I up. I didn't sew my own breast.

[Jackie Tohn]

I didn't have the needle in red.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You must have had aspirin for breakfast, didn't you, you little piggy? You love your exclusively.

[Jackie Tohn]

And I added milk. Stereo.

[Dax Shepard]

Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch.

[Jackie Tohn]

So after that experience, even though I was already set on the surgery, I was like, well, I'm not doing more of these. I'm not doing more of these. MRIs, biopsies. We think we find something. We don't find something. Those weeks where I was months. Because you have to wait weeks in between. That time of chills again, was the worst time of the whole thing. Except the recovery was tough. But that time was the worst because I was like, oh, no.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Jackie Tohn]

I'm out here waving my flag about as I partner with the genetic testing company Myriad that discovered the BRCA gene. This company is unbelievable. And you literally spit in a tube and it comes back. It's not even a blood test. With your historical. From your family, your genetic mutations and these cancer risks.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And you had multiple things going on. Right. Because also ashkenazi Jews are 1 in 40, so you had a lot of compounding Genetics. Right.

[Jackie Tohn]

So this is what is nuts. So myriad. Or any of these genetic testing companies. Insurance will cover your test if you have these three things. Young, rare, multiple. So if someone in your family has cancer. Young. Your mom or dad, you can get this covered by insurance. If there's multiple cancers, you also qualify. And if you have a rare. Like my dad, Male breast cancer is considered rare.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Obviously.

[Dax Shepard]

First time I've ever heard of it.

[Jackie Tohn]

Ever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Alan.

[Jackie Tohn]

Uhhuh. Alto.

[Monica Padman]

And they're still not even saying it. I think there is like some like. Or something.

[Rob]

Like they're like.

[Jackie Tohn]

They won't say that.

[Dax Shepard]

They don't want to emasculate them on top of it.

[Jackie Tohn]

My mother does that enough.

[Monica Padman]

They'd rather lie and say it's a metastasized kid. It's like not at all.

[Dax Shepard]

100% sounds so manly. Your cancer wrote in on a Harley, goes by the name of metastasized.

[Jackie Tohn]

All of this to say. There's a fourth sort of unspoken reason that you should obviously get genetic tested other than Ray. Rare, multiple, and young. Is Ashkenazi Jew. So less than. I don't want to say the exact number because I think it changes.

[Dax Shepard]

Forgive me. Are the Ashkenazis mostly the Russian diaspora?

[Jackie Tohn]

Eastern European. Yeah, Russian. Eastern European. And so what's crazy is. Don't quote me on this, but the point is, the number is unbelievably small of the number of people who test positive for the BRCA mutation. It's like between 0.22 and 3% of the population. Oh, wow. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Very rare.

[Jackie Tohn]

Nobody has this. 1 in 40 Jews. 1 in 40 Ashkenazi. Specifically Jews.

[Monica Padman]

Whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is 2 1/2 percent. I don't know if it even is 1 in 40s. 2 1/2 percent. So if you're. Your national average is 0.2. This is tenfold.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah, it's ten times. That's exactly right. I thought you were saying Ashkenazi Jews are 2.5% of the population. And I was like, oh, no, there's about 18 of us left. I don't think we're too.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway. You absolutely convince yourself it was probably just a sensor thing right up until you were standing on the side of the road waiting for a tow. You. Yeah, checking first is the right move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside plan. Today you're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club incorporated in Allstate affairs affiliate. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. So, Monica, here's something that really stuck with me. BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report surveyed 2,000Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet 74 say society discourages people from doing so.

[Monica Padman]

That's a huge gap. Most of us agree therapy is a good thing, but there's still something holding some people back from actually going right.

[Dax Shepard]

And I think that's where just talking about it, normalizing it makes a difference.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, as you know, I'm obsessed with therapy. I've been in it consistently for years and years and years. And I have said this and I shouldn't say it, but I do think if you're struggling and you've been struggling for a while and you haven't sought therapy, I judge you a little bit. Oh, wow, okay. Yeah, I know, and I'm not and I gotta go to therapy to work on that, you know, but also there are options for you. You can help yourself. And betterhelp makes that first step easier. They match you with the licen therapists based on your needs. And with over 30,000 therapists and 12 plus years of experience, they typically get the match right the first time.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with better help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Dax that's better. H E L p.com Dax this episode is supported by Helix. All right, let's talk about something we both really care deeply about. Sleep.

[Monica Padman]

It's the most important thing. I've had my Helix mattress for years now and genuinely think it's one of the best investments you can make for your home. Mine still feels just like it did when I first got it.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's the thing. It's not one of those mattresses that caves in after six months. These things are built to last. And, you know, I'm a side sleeper. I ordered a side sleeper and I get hot, so I have cooling and I can't tell you how much more comfortable it is to be in there not sweating and tossing and turning.

[Monica Padman]

Cooling is really important. I've read that you're supposed to sleep a little bit cold so I also have cooling and they have over 20 models so it's not a size fits all situation. You just go take their quiz and they match you to what actually works for your body.

[Dax Shepard]

Plus they've got cooling upgrades which heading into summer non negotiable truly. Go to helixsleep.comarmchair for 20% off that's helixsleep.com armchair for 20% off. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com armchair heritage is this Corner

[Rob]

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[Jackie Tohn]

So with myriad it's basically you spit in the tube and then you send it away and you get all these answers. And the reason that I really wish that I got miniature flags on Amazon, the reason that I'm out here waving the flag so hard is because I managed to get to this age and nobody said anything to me. How is that possible? I will tell you a couple things. The doctors that I use for the double mastectomy and the reconstruction, not only are they just such badasses, amazing women. Because of them and because of these genetic counselors and this amazing team that I was able to put together, I do actually feel the gratitude.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh wow, that's impressive.

[Jackie Tohn]

I feel real relief when I have my ovaries out and then all of the surgeries are behind me and I'm good to go. Even though I did already do the breasts. I am am in between the two.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so to make this trivial and not as important as it is, I am curious if you came to me at one point and you said, okay, we are going to remove your penis and you're going to design a new one. That's a very interesting proposition. What's that experience like for so many

[Jackie Tohn]

women who messaged me? Because I now talk to everybody on Instagram asking who my doctor was and what size I went and what kind of implants I used to. And the thing I think that's really, really oppressive about the whole diagnosis is there are a hundred thousand decisions. Every single thing is 5,000, everything. So it's like, which doctor you're using is so many decisions. Then you go with them. And then it's like, when's the surgery? How long is the. Do I do straight to implant while I'm asleep? Do I do two separate surgeries? Do I do expanders? And then. Then do. When do I do the ovary? I mean, that's the part that I think is fatiguing every day, the amount of questions. So then I talked to a person who got the straight to implant, and then I spoke to somebody who did the two separate surgeries.

[Dax Shepard]

How long did they wait in between? If they wait, it's a while for

[Jackie Tohn]

the two separate surgeries. My understanding. I didn't do this. My understanding is you get your breasts removed, and then what they put in, you wake up with expanders in your. Your skin flap because there's no breast tissue there. And then they just keep adding. I think it's either air or water or silicone, whatever they're adding to the extender to fill out your boob. But I think there are these, like, plastic things that are in there, and they feel interesting. From what I understand. You're also, apparently, with the expanders. They're not, like, cute round. Like, it's like, an interesting thing. I hear it's like, a little bit.

[Monica Padman]

Why would anyone do that?

[Jackie Tohn]

I am afraid. I don't want to be judgmental at all.

[Monica Padman]

No, there's no judgment.

[Jackie Tohn]

I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Jackie Tohn]

I don't know, like, what the pro is. What the pro is. My understanding is that the pro often comes from doctors who say, because doing the two in one is not new, but within the last 15 years, like, it's not what they used to do. They used to absolutely be two surgeries. Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Jackie Tohn]

And then, in fact, my doctor, this amazing woman, Dr. Kasileth, she wrote the page paper. She was like, the head of plastics at Cedars for a couple terms, and she was like, this is doable. We don't need to be giving women two separate surgeries. And Then there are other doctors who are like, my experience is that the healing is better and there's less chance because there's a lot of things that can happen when you get a double mastectomy. So when you're looking into it, like, necrosis is something which is terrifying. You're getting your tissue removed so close to your skin that like, if they go too close to your skin, that piece of your skin dies. You could possibly not skin grafting. There could be pain. Pain. I mean, chronic pain. Afterward, there's the phantom. There's something called an iron bra. So I'm looking all of this up beforehand. Your tits are so heavy. Everything is like, heavy, but it's not heavy. It feels heavy.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Jackie Tohn]

So it's like a phantom limb or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Pain expert.

[Monica Padman]

Fantastic episode.

[Dax Shepard]

The best of the year.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, I can't wait to listen. There's so many things that could happen. And speaking of gratitude, none of it happened. My tits look adorable.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

None of my skin is necrotic. The size was exactly Dr. Kasaleth and Dr. Richardson, they said when they were looking, she goes, we're gonna prop you up when you're out and we're gonna put em in. And it's three women. It's her nurse and it's Dr. Richardson and Dr. Casseth. And we are gonna look at your boot and we're gonna be like. And we tried this bigger size and they just looked huge on you. And so then we went with this size. When I woke up, she was like, I hope you're happy. We made them a little bit smaller. And you know how many friends I have that said, especially with male doctors, they wake up and their tits are bigger than they agreed to.

[Dax Shepard]

But also, also, I think the norm is. Am I wrong? Women want bigger boobs. Like, you're in a unique situation.

[Monica Padman]

I was gonna stop you earlier when you said it. You said, you know, girls are like, I must. I must.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, when they're kids.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, when they're kids. That is not. Not even my personal experience, but my experience with women. I have not heard that.

[Jackie Tohn]

I have a thought.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

When did you start growing boobs?

[Monica Padman]

Young. 7th grade.

[Jackie Tohn]

I didn't get my period till 10th grade, so I wore a padded bra and stuffed a little bit in ninth grade because I was a board.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Jackie Tohn]

It was embarra. I was absolutely ply board.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And it wasn't even real wood. It's so sad. And it was just like, bad. And then I remember I wore the padded bra and boys started saying like, oh, you got boobs over the summer. And I was like, okay, okay. I always wanted boobs because I never had them. Then there was a girl in my high school who had like triple D. Exactly. Tiny as you. I don't know if I've ever seen it again in life. Yeah. And 16 years old, it's like if

[Monica Padman]

you are a woman or a girl who's flat, you're like, oh, I want some boobs. And if you have boobs, you're like, oh, I want less. Right. That's just the way it goes. But also, most people, I think, who get. Well, I. I shouldn't say most. I don't know any of these percentages. Most people who get implants aren't getting double Ds. They're getting around Cs or Bs.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, definitely now. And in LA, correct.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's changed.

[Dax Shepard]

But we had 30 years where actually everyone got double D. Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

The only reason to get implants was like, if you're just going up a size, what's the point?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

But now the other thing that's change is when you get breast implants. I was showing them pictures of the boobs that I liked and the sizes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so where did you find those pictures?

[Jackie Tohn]

Well, what's really funny is there's a drag queen named Bosco who's a trans woman and she wore her real tits out on the Runway of Drag Race. And I said, I have never seen fake boobs like this in my life. So I DMed her, oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was like, I love your breasts.

[Jackie Tohn]

She wrote me right back and she sent me a picture. This is the other thing about this fucking journey. It makes me cry. The sisterhood. She wrote me right back. She sent a picture of the back of her implants card. Then when I spoke to my doctors about it, they were like, totally. We love that. I'm not sure how a teardrop would be on you and this. And just like we talked all through it. And the other thing was I have friends who have breast implants and my concern was that cuz I don't have breast tissue. So when you put a breast implant, you would never. But if you did, it would go seamlessly in because you have plenty of breast tissue to go around it, smooth out the edges. I could look like I have two half cantaloupes, just round. Totally. And I was like, O. But there's nothing they could do. It doesn't look like that. If it does, it's because on your skinny and your rib cage, your chest bones Are there. This is ribs, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

I'm not bright.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, only one of us has made it to the semifinals on Jeopardy. In this room, so.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

You can only.

[Jackie Tohn]

I was so confident. I was like, your ribs. And then I thought, oh, God, Dax is going to know. That's not.

[Dax Shepard]

No, that does feel high up for ribs. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Well, like collarbone.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

There's like that whole.

[Jackie Tohn]

And so now I'm just like a genetic testing person where I'm like, we have this opportunity to find this out.

[Dax Shepard]

Can someone just ask their normal gp, I want this test, or do you go online and order it?

[Jackie Tohn]

The Myriad one. You go online, just learnmyrisk.com it's so easy.

[Dax Shepard]

Learnmyrisk.com Yep. Go in there, you order it, you spit in the tube. You spit it, send it out. They send you back.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Jackie Tohn]

And there's an app. I had my information right on the website. Oh, God, it's devastating. But, you know, there's a big red plus sign in a circle and you're just like, oh, boy, I have this.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's the iconography. Positive on that.

[Jackie Tohn]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Like a sunshine. Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Could you imagine? It's a less smiling emoji with the cry tearing. It's so happy. Hysterical laughing.

[Monica Padman]

So happy.

[Jackie Tohn]

I know that certain people, I guess, want. I don't know, they have a different theory of just like, I don't want to know. I'll deal with it when I get there. And that's just not me, especially given that when I got my breast tissue removed, they found stuff in there. I have a screen grab of the pathology test results and the words are terrifying. Precarcinomic. This and that. And when the doctor Kasloth called me with those results, she was like, almost. Not shrieking, but almost. Almost like, we did it, we did it. So sometimes we take people's breast tissue out and there's nothing in there. And that's wonderful. And who knows if in 10 years it would have been something. Also, with BRCA, they recommend you get your ovaries out before 40 and your breast removal before 40. And I'm 45. And so it's like, you know, it becomes a borrowed time situation where you're like, because the numbers increase after 40, obviously. And so she was like, there was stuff in there. We did it. That had to be one of the best days of my life. Even though I had to go through all this, I'm like, yo, that's crazy, dude.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You're just living with it.

[Jackie Tohn]

And we talk about this, too, which is so scary. My dad is the greatest, but my dad has been through so much, you know, he said, I made it this far so you could find out. He felt so bad about the broca. I feel so bad. You got this from me.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, he went shopping for it. I regret buying that. That was an impulse buy.

[Jackie Tohn]

I regret purposely putting that gentleman so. He was just so upset. And then when we look at the bright side, it's like, dude, you absolutely saved my life.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What's your anxiety level out of 10? Do you feel like that took it to zero, or do you feel like, oh, I just don't like that I have that.

[Jackie Tohn]

Genius. Well, here's something, which is crazy, because you both know how neurotic I am. I have a friend who, years ago, every single thing that ever happened, she had cancer in her brain. She was like, oh, my God, I have cancer. She had a really sore throat for a long time, and she was like, it's a hundred percent I have cancer. Everything was cancer.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know why.

[Jackie Tohn]

Neither of her parents had cancer. I just was never that. Not with cancer. I was just like, you know, I have nuts and I catastrophize, but it was never cancer. And so this happened. I had to recalibrate all of my mental bullshit of like, wait a minute. Now I have this thing that people get scared of their whole life. I don't. God forbid I have cancer, but I have. Have this, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Predisposition.

[Jackie Tohn]

I was going to say proclivity. Yeah, just like a weird pro. God forbid. I love you. That every time I knock, you knock. I know it's going to make me cry.

[Monica Padman]

I know I'm a knocker.

[Jackie Tohn]

I'm a knocker, too.

[Monica Padman]

I know I knock all the time, but if I see you knock, I have to knock.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's making my heart explode.

[Dax Shepard]

So you guys are. Yeah. You're knockers.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah. Well, ding, ding, ding.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Sorry. It just all. It all synthesized perfectly.

[Jackie Tohn]

Wow. Sometimes we should call it that.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you guys want to think about a side podcast called Knockers?

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah, of course. Oh, my God, that'd be great. Just like the sisterhood of the Traveling Tits.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Of it all. One of my best friends, Ilsi, I told her about this diagnosis, and she was like, oh, my friend has this. Do you want to talk to her? And I was like, yeah, more than anything. So my whole life became. I met up with this woman Nina. We sit down at Alfred on Ventura, and I am kind of hysterical, and I don't know what to Expect. But now I've learned my numbers, and I'm like, oh, I gotta do this. So now I'm looking for a medical team. I'm past that weird month where I didn't know if I was just gonna do advanced surveillance, as they call it. And I'm sitting down and I have tears in my eyes. And she goes, let's go to your car. And I go, oh, okay. Cause I'm crying. And she goes, no, I'm gonna show you my boobs. And I think it'll make you feel better, because they're outrageous.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna like what you see, baby.

[Jackie Tohn]

You're gonna want to cry.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna like the way you look.

[Jackie Tohn]

You're gonn. She lifts up her shirt, and they're gorgeous. Yeah. And they don't look fake at all. And they're just perky. And her nipples were. And I was like, you got to keep. I didn't know. You got to keep your nipples. And she goes, oh, yeah. If you're getting preventative double mastectomy and you don't have cancer, which is why they do the testing, then you can largely keep your nipples. So my boobs look the same as they did.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very personal. But sensitivity. Have we lost any sensitivity?

[Jackie Tohn]

We have almost all.

[Dax Shepard]

But that could return.

[Jackie Tohn]

It could return. I had a facial a couple days ago, and the woman was at my house, and I felt her pull the sheet up, and my tits were out. I didn't know

[Dax Shepard]

this could lead to all kinds of funny future wardrobe malfunctions that you don't know about.

[Jackie Tohn]

I asked Kristen, whatever press we just did. I had a low cut thing, and I said, let me know if my tits out. I won't know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

I will not know. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

We're just going to need to be using a lot of the tape.

[Jackie Tohn]

A lot of the tape. And a lot of friendship of just being like, bu.

[Monica Padman]

Even the nipple. You can't.

[Jackie Tohn]

No, no. Especially the nipple.

[Monica Padman]

Nothing.

[Jackie Tohn]

So if we punched you, baby, let's not talk.

[Dax Shepard]

If you had to get. But I had many surgeries, as you know. Yeah. My whole shoulder was completely dead. Like, the whole left upper quadrant of my body was just like, zero feeling. From all the nerves that were cut, They've all come back. Unfortunately, now I need to get one cut. But they all came back, so you might be shocked.

[Jackie Tohn]

And these doctors, they're out of this place called the Bedford Breast Center. That's all they do. They're just boobs all day. They're not at a hospital. And there's, like, random plastic surgery they do. It's the Bedford Breast Center.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And so, not that it's experimental, but not all places do this. They do nerve sparing. There's an extra hour and a half added to my surgery because they reconnected nerves after they were cut. And I was like, is that gonna equal phantom pain? And they were like, no. It actually lessens the chance of phantom pain. And so I can feel, like, here a little. And it'll be exciting when I'll be like, oh. And this girl Nina, who famously showed me her boobs, immediately said she was so excited. Like, a year later, she was like, I ran into the kitchen, and I told my husband. I'm like, evan, I feel my nipple.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, I have a question. So overall anxiety. This could go either way. Because you are an anxious person, as am I.

[Jackie Tohn]

Queen.

[Monica Padman]

I feel like I always thought, you know, something could be wrong or something might be wrong or. And then when I have my seizures and I got diagnosed with epilepsy, I'm

[Jackie Tohn]

on the edge today. Everything's gonna make me cry. Well, that's just so hard. I know. It's so hard.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. But it really helped my anxiety. Cause I was like, oh, the fuck

[Jackie Tohn]

is wrong with me?

[Monica Padman]

It was like, oh, for one. It was like I knew something was wrong, and then now it's vindicated. Now it's vindicated. And then it's like, oh, but that bad thing. Like, the idea of having a seizure. And then it's like, oh, I did have it, and I'm fine.

[Jackie Tohn]

This is exactly what I was saying before.

[Monica Padman]

It helps in a weird way.

[Jackie Tohn]

Catastrophizing in life that we do. When you actually have the thing that you're terrified of, and you figure out the steps to get through it, and you're better on the other side. If someone told me a year and a half ago that you're gonna have an 85% chance of getting, I don't know what I would have done. But then when you just tell me there's not a chance, you have it. Go ahead, figure it out. There was no anxiety at that point.

[Dax Shepard]

There's no time for any of that. It kind of makes you realize kind of how indulgent anxiety and fear is. Because I say this all the time. It's like, all these things you fear. I've walked through many of them now, and they're fine. They're weirdly fine. You show up, you arrive at the thing. You pick your dad up, you take him to the chemo you're there, you talk to the person while you're there, you make that person laugh. You just walk through it all. Yet when you think about it, it seems completely insurmountable, completely undoable. And what is the utility of it? Like, why do we have such an outside?

[Monica Padman]

I think to prevent us from getting ourselves in situations.

[Dax Shepard]

Sticky pickles.

[Monica Padman]

Sticky pickles. But it's too much.

[Jackie Tohn]

But don't they say, like, the reason we have it, we have anxiety and fear is, like, from the times a lion would attack you, and now you have that level of anxiety, but it's because you don't know which cold medicine to buy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jackie Tohn]

And you're like, I'm going to get this, and it's going to up my whole.

[Dax Shepard]

I do think in the absence of real threats, all the mechanisms are still there, but there's nothing real to focus on.

[Jackie Tohn]

Correct.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, we're worrying about whether you're going to die at 80 or 90. It's like, what someone's like, are they

[Jackie Tohn]

going to make it to teenage years?

[Dax Shepard]

Teenage years in the hunting and gathering society. Society. So, yeah, I think we have all this architecture for it and no outlet for it. So we just start searching.

[Monica Padman]

To me, there are some things, like, I started that doc. Have you guys seen the doc about the girl who, like, drove the car

[Dax Shepard]

into a. Oh, crash or something?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I haven't watched it. Is it good?

[Jackie Tohn]

Of course.

[Monica Padman]

So this girl drove a car into a wall or something with her boyfriend and a friend, and those two died, and she survived, and now she. She's being, like, charged with murder or something. So. Okay. I couldn't actually finish it because I started it and because it was clearly about teenagers in car accidents and dying, I felt so anxious, and I was like, there's too many teenagers in my life right now. I started to really have some panic, and I was like, I don't think I can watch this, because that's a real fear. These kids out on the road driving

[Jackie Tohn]

around these, like, little babies we know, drunk on mushrooms.

[Monica Padman]

They shouldn't be out there. I don't like that. But because those are real premium fears, I think your brain can't really handle that level of, like, these teenagers might end up in these horrible situations. So it's like, yeah, cough medicine. It, like, funnels into.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Things can sort of handle. Does that make sense?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jackie Tohn]

Howard Stern used to say this all the time. But, like, your brain can't even focus on dying for any length of time. You'll think of something else. Because your brain is not gonna let you sit there and really focus on it.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not a good zone.

[Monica Padman]

It's not a good zone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I've been thinking this a lot lately, and I guess the reason I've been thinking about it a lot is because of the fervor of anger and how upset everyone is politically and just kind of countrywide. And some part of me just keeps going, yeah, dude, you're on this planet for a minute and you literally get to think about whatever you want, and you get to get angry or upset or in love. You're just on this ride and you're going to be gone. And we're here for some, period, and we'll be gone. And this planet was here for a minute and it'll be gone. It's like, on some level, I think it's healthy to zoom out a bit and go like, yeah, all your concerns, although they are valid, there's a reality of how you're spending your time on this trip on this planet, which also needs to be evaluated and balanced.

[Jackie Tohn]

There's an old Bob Newhart sketch this is reminding me of, and he was a therapist on his show, and people would come in to his. I feel like I may have told you this already, but people would come into his office on the sketch on the Bob Newhart show, and he was a therapist, and he would sit there with his paper and pen and they would start saying all the things and he would go over to them and shake them and go, stop it.

[Dax Shepard]

Break through.

[Jackie Tohn]

And they would be like, put my. My mother and my father. And they didn't. And it wasn't good. And what they did to my. Stop it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And you just go like, stop it. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This whole country just needs someone to grab by the shoulders and just go, stop it.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Jackie Tohn]

And I have to say it to myself and I think of that sketch and Jackie, stop it. All the time. But what's really crazy is that this whole journey has not been an anxiety riddled journey. It's the antithesis. It's like I am a machine who handles things.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I just handle confidence, really. Confidence building.

[Jackie Tohn]

Who's she? Bitch. I know, it's crazy.

[Monica Padman]

That's so cool.

[Jackie Tohn]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to get really philosophic death.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Even if you walk through all of

[Jackie Tohn]

that, Jackie, step in that coffin, Rob's

[Dax Shepard]

gonna pull out a subcompact machine gun.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, well, now I want to.

[Dax Shepard]

Even if you work through, like, so much of the catastrophization. Right. Of everything is like you stop at the big event and then you don't walk beyond that. Okay, someone died in a car accident. What's after that? And I think you have our own death to think about, which is like, truly, you're not gonna know, right? Like you're fearing something you can't experience. So what a waste, right? Because you're not gonna know and that's that. So there's nothing to feel bad about on your behalf because you're not gonna suffer. There's no moment. You're gonna be reflecting and going, oh, I wish I was still there. That's not what's gonna happen. So, okay, I don't need to feel bad for me because I'm not gonna experience any discomfort. So now we're just talking about the sadness of death is for the people that are left there, right? But even that, you need to think about all that. I've lost people. I've lost my father. I kind of love my dad more now than I ever have. I don't know. I don't know if that's where we would have gotten to if he made it to 100. I don't know. The love and the infusion of the people that are here, that's not going anywhere. You can't take that from me. I can miss my day to day interaction with you, but I think the best version of me would be like, fuck yeah, I got to meet that person on this trip. So it's like, even if you start working through what it'll really look like on the other side of these things we're so afraid of, it's like, well, the person that died, they got no issues. It's the people that are alive. But then there's also all kinds of beautiful ways that the people who are then living get to channel that person and talk about the person. Like, you know, it's all manageable. We're not so fudgeing. Fragile.

[Jackie Tohn]

No, that is my takeaway. People ask all the time. They're like, so are you now? Like, don't sweat the small stuff. And I was like, bumper sticker in your car. Are you sick? Are you either sick or dumb? No, I'm going to sweat the small stuff for fucking ever.

[Monica Padman]

Don't smell. No.

[Jackie Tohn]

I am still just as upset about minutia as I was before this whole thing. But the big difference is that exact thing, there's this perspective shift where I'm not that fragile. I got it. Like, I am. You know, I think in our lives we're always told, you don't say good things about yourself. That's conceited. That's this, that's that. But I am a badass warrior who did these crazy difficult things and I just, just did them. And if you are going through this, you can do them.

[Dax Shepard]

You'll just do them.

[Jackie Tohn]

When I'm dming with anybody that's going through it, my first thing is I'm always just like, you got this. Even if you don't think you got, you do. You'll be on the other side of this. I was dming with one girl who was like, I'm two weeks out and I'm so miserable. Am I ever going to feel better? And I was like, queen, you will be dancing a soft shoe without having breast cancer. I mean, truly, in three weeks. Yeah, but two weeks sucks. Oh, it sucks. It sucks. And you know, want to talk about that? Because I want people to do what they need to do. No, but it's part of like, it's. It sucks. The recovery is rough.

[Dax Shepard]

I will say the most eye openening part of my dad's cancer thing was taking him to chemo. And in that room was almost 100% women in their 30s.

[Jackie Tohn]

Scary.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was like, sick.

[Jackie Tohn]

Whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

This is not what I was expecting. I thought it was going to be a bunch of old men who smoke cigarettes hooked up to these machines. And I was like, oh, there's a real epidemic. I know people have been saying it, but like to see it in person. The chemo rooms is full of women with breast cancer. It's crazy.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's like the numbers of people who get breast cancer. It's like 20,000 people per state per year. I mean, it's just a massive. That's an ish. So it's 10 or 11. It's crazy. And I always say this too, but I'm a doctor person. I got a doctor for every part of my body. I go to the doctor for something like this to get past me. It's not like I'm a head in the sand person exactly. I have a girlfriend who was helping me with some interior design stuff and she was like, yeah, my mom has it, but I just haven't been tested. And I was like, your mom has braca and you're just raw dogging it. I didn't judge in my mind. I did. I didn't out loud judge. But it's like you gotta do the. I do really have trouble understanding whatever you do with the information I guess is your choice. It's just really hard for me to Wrap my brain around you.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, not that way, but I totally get it. And I'm fine with this.

[Jackie Tohn]

Not which way.

[Dax Shepard]

My way is I'd rather know.

[Jackie Tohn]

I thought you were saying not know. And I was like, bro, no, but I understand.

[Dax Shepard]

I understand people who choose to not know. I think it's fine. And I think I have that feeling because with my dad, I really tried to get him to do certain things. And after he was gone, I was like, a, what a waste of time that was. B, it was tension we didn't need. And guess what? That was his journey to do however he want. Guess what? It wasn't my business or my choice. And so when my stepdad got it, he made some nuts decisions. I became the spokesperson for the Prostate Cancer foundation so I could get him into a trial. I get him into this trial no one can get into. He goes to one appointment, he's like, yeah, I'm not going to do it. And because I had already had my dad, I was like, cool, man. This is yours, dude. This is your ride. And I totally honor it. And I was resentful. So I do totally respect people who are like, oh, yeah, it doesn't interest me. I'm on the journey I'm on, and I'm cool with it. I'm fine with that. That's not what I would do. It doesn't bother me too much because I do think that's all you have for your autonomy is really you deciding. And whether that to me makes no sense or not. It's like it's the one thing you have.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And you decide if you don't want. And apparently, I mean, thank God a million times. Again, I don't know about chemo, but it's not uncommon for people to say, I think I'm all set. Oh, it's gonna make me cry. I think I'm all set here.

[Monica Padman]

I've done it.

[Jackie Tohn]

I' I don't want to do this anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

In the atul gande way, you really do have to evaluate. Is this a quantity play or a quality play? And both are legitimate.

[Jackie Tohn]

What are we talking about for three weeks? Three weeks. I mean, even if you think it's years, but if you're going to be in a bed the whole time, it's like, well, I'm.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's compare 18 months to nine months. But nine months, I can go on walks with my family in Europe. And the other version, I sit in a bed for 18 months, and people come and cry next to me. Who's to say which one?

[Jackie Tohn]

And look at me like I'm already gone. It's like, oh, that whole.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, everyone gets to decide. Everyone gets to make their own decision.

[Dax Shepard]

You occasionally hear these stories where it's like the dad didn't tell anyone he had cancer. Everyone's so mad, so mad. And everyone's so shocked by that. But I did say to Chris, I'm like, you know, I'm not ruling that out because I don't wish to spend the last year of my life breaking everyone's heart I'm in love with. So sue me. I don't want my last year of my life with my girls looking at me with total sadness and I'm ruining their existence. Distance versus I'm still dying on the same day. And I might tell you three months before so you can do whatever closure you want. It doesn't seem as crazy to me as when I would first hear about it. Like, guess what? It's my last year of life.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

How do I want to spend it? Being pitied. That's my most hated feeling. So I don't know.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's a tough one.

[Monica Padman]

If it's for them, you might want to ask now.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I brought it up the other day. It didn't go well.

[Monica Padman]

How would you. Because like I prefer how having time. Being on the other side. Like my grandfather was basically dying for so long.

[Dax Shepard]

Too long.

[Monica Padman]

Too long. And it was hard. But I'm glad it happened that way because I did get to mourn his death before his body died. And that was good for me personally.

[Jackie Tohn]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Cuz then by the time he died, I really could feel gratitude for him.

[Jackie Tohn]

That it was time you were able to spend with him, given you had the information and really say goodbye and

[Monica Padman]

really feel all the feelings. So if it's for the people in your life, you might want to give them the option.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll just say for the record, I don't currently have any terminal diagnoses.

[Jackie Tohn]

Huge.

[Dax Shepard]

And there might be a day when you ask me if I have that. When I say I'd rather not answer that. Cuz I refuse to lie to you. And then you'll.

[Jackie Tohn]

Every day. God damn it. And I have to carry around a piece of wood. Exhausting. My poor nut. My poor goddamn nuts.

[Monica Padman]

I have a quick question, please. When you got the diagnosis, did it do anything or even when you got the surgeries, did it do anything to your identity? Did it do anything to your female identity?

[Jackie Tohn]

I love that question. Believe it or not. It really didn't.

[Monica Padman]

Good.

[Jackie Tohn]

It didn't at all.

[Monica Padman]

I'm so glad you did.

[Jackie Tohn]

And I'm also speaking with people who are very worried about that, and I feel for them because I. My boobs are not why I feel like a woman. I mean, no part of me is really why I feel like a woman. I don't know. I've never been classically feminine in a lot of ways where, like, a wedding doesn't really speak to me.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

When you wore a tux at your

[Jackie Tohn]

butt mitts, I wore a tux at my butt mitts. I had to learn from a friend the hard way how to celebrate when someone has an engagement ring. Because I was like, oh, it's so pretty. And then she, like, called me later and was like, I don't even know how to have this conversation with you. Everybody but you screamed and went crazy.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, but that's on. I'm sorry, I don't know who that is. That's on them.

[Jackie Tohn]

It is a little bit. But it's also like, I get it. I'm reacting to it in a way that I don't really want an engagement ring. I don't really care. It's not something that ever meant anything to me. And I think similarly, I've never been a woman who is like, my sexuality and my femininity. You know what would make me lose my sense of self is if I woke up and I wasn't funny tomorrow.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, I would jump off a bridge, totally.

[Jackie Tohn]

But if I have to get a life saving service, surgery. Also, I remember going on a carpet. Truly, way too soon after the surgery because I'm disturbed. And I went to one of the award shows and a girlfriend of mine who was at the award show who'd been through the whole thing and was. Who actually recommended the doctors to me, she DM me afterwards and was like, oh, my gosh, you look amazing. So excited. Let me know when your surgery is. Because she was like, you obviously didn't get it yet. You're at an award show doing amazing with new perky tits. And I was like, oh, no, I did it already. And so because of things like this and because of what an amazing job they did, I think I'd feel differently if I was like, oh, my God, I got hatcheted.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And you value. You know, your value isn't placed there, but for some people it is.

[Jackie Tohn]

I know a lot of people are writing to me too, being like, I'm not getting the reconstruction. I don't want to do it. That sounds like a headache. I'm like, okay, Great.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Again, everyone makes two each.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair adventures. Expert, if you dare.

[Jackie Tohn]

Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward, even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska. And in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I want to transition to a couple professional questions, please. One isn't. I don't think we've talked about it in your previous trips here, but when you were 18, after a semester at Delaware, you and Aggie go gold. Your agent from Fresh Face Talent.

[Monica Padman]

I hate you.

[Dax Shepard]

And your mother never hated you more. Came out to LA on a break after the first semester, and you meet Jessica Biel, and you end up living with her and her family in Calabasas. But the thing that was. There's so many interesting things to that.

[Jackie Tohn]

I don't know how you could possibly have a question about such an obvious thing.

[Dax Shepard]

The one I'm. I'm most obsessed with is it said you guys met at a TV Guide Awards. Okay, so just explain to me what the award show was that you met it, and why you would have been there. If you're a student at Delaware, the

[Jackie Tohn]

answer to the question is yes. So when I was 18, I came out on this break and I was friends with Ben Salisbury, who was the son on the Nanny. And I had been on the Nanny twice. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Playing to remind everyone. Young Fran Drescher.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Jackie Tohn]

And then sort of young Fran Drescher, different incarnation of mine. So first I played her second cousin, and then I played a girl in the classroom that was supposed to be basically exactly like her. I'm friends with Ben. He's one of my only California friends. And he knew that I loved Jessica Biel. And he was like, just, you know, people call her Jessie. I'm like, okay, Sick. Hope one day to be able to utilize that. So he was invited to the TV Guide Awards, which were hosted that year by Drew Carey, of course. But it was the most. I mean, low rent doesn't even cut it. We'll have to Google, like, what a TV Guide Award even looks looks like.

[Dax Shepard]

So you were his date?

[Jackie Tohn]

I was like his friend date. And our moms were friends. And so it was me and Ben, I believe his mom and my mom. And then Jessica Beal was there, who I love.

[Dax Shepard]

Was she nominated for a TV Guide? Probably.

[Rob]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

She must have been there.

[Jackie Tohn]

Probably nominated for the Nanny, because that was still on. So maybe it was like, you know, Best Kid. The TV Guide Awards, like, Best Kid Actor. They used to also have, like, the Young Hollywood Awards and that I coveted. Oh, I coveted going to the. Really wanted to be involved, but I wasn't getting hired at that. At that time at all. So I was Ben's plus one. And then I met Jesse Beal there. He was like, jackie, this is Jesse. And I just was immediately like, oh, dude, I love you. I'm obsessed with you. And she was like, oh, thanks so much. She has a deeper voice than me, which is crazy. Thanks so much, dude. And then we became immediate friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, but really quick, that's already a rare event. She's already on tv. She goes to TV Guide Awards. She meets you, and she's like, yeah, I have space to start hanging out. Hanging out with you is weird, no?

[Jackie Tohn]

Weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

But we were immediately like sympathetic personalities, similar to me and kb where, like, you wouldn't necessarily think, but then it just works.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a symmetry.

[Jackie Tohn]

Similar thing with KB I mean, she wasn't a TV star yet, but when we met, we were like, oh. There was like an immediate game recognizing game.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, funny, snarky, but very complimentary. You guys are in very defined lanes that are not the same.

[Jackie Tohn]

Correct. I, for example, am not America's sweetheart.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, nor I.

[Jackie Tohn]

We, however, are in similar lanes. So, Jess, we became super fast friends. We exchanged numbers, and then the next day, I was leaving in like four days, and I was like, oh, what are you doing? And she was like, oh, let's go. I'm going to tie bow.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Remember Tae boxing?

[Jackie Tohn]

Billy Blanks.

[Dax Shepard]

Billy Blanks.

[Monica Padman]

Bibi, I have not heard, babe, the term tae bow in 20, 30 years. Truly.

[Jackie Tohn]

And then she was. Who convinced me. I don't know that she admits this, but she is who convinced me to drop out of college. Oh. And it wasn't a hard convince. It literally, I was like, I can't live here. I have nowhere to live. She was like, live with my family. And I was like, see A. U. Delaware.

[Dax Shepard]

So that part is the interesting. So when she was on seventh heaven, what ages were you guys?

[Jackie Tohn]

I was 18, she was 17.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So that's why she lived at home. And her parents were like, absolutely. Invite your friend you just met to live in our home. Because I gotta be honest, when my girls come home from the TV Guide award show and they tell me someone's moving in. I'm gonna go. That's not happening.

[Monica Padman]

I think perhaps it is happening. Krista, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

Go to Nashville, I guess, and ignore the whole situation.

[Jackie Tohn]

When I first met Kristen, there were seven people living in at a minimum.

[Dax Shepard]

Same when I started dating. And I was just like, do I dare broach this? I'm like, any of these seven folks paying rent?

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Rob]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

No, not one of them.

[Monica Padman]

And it paid off because those people are Ryan and Amy and other people.

[Jackie Tohn]

Exactly.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you feel awkward living in a family's home or you dropped right in. You're no problem for you already know I am.

[Monica Padman]

Can you bring me soup?

[Jackie Tohn]

Kim Beal, Jess's mom, taught me how to write a check because I moved out of the house. So literally, like, taught me how to pump gas. I moved out of the house so young. I went to college for one semester. I'd barely had my, like, driver's license for a year. I was so young. And my parents to their credit. Well, once they knew I was moving in with this, like, TV star's family, and my parents met her parents, and everything was super sweet. And I wasn't gonna stay for long. It was just to, like, get me on my feet and get me out here.

[Dax Shepard]

How long did you stay? 3.

[Jackie Tohn]

7. It was seven years. It's coming up on 7. It's coming up on 25. At the end of this month, it was, like, less than six months.

[Monica Padman]

Were you guys just out on the town together?

[Jackie Tohn]

Always. Aw, that's really cool. We were, like, putting on wigs and dressing crazy and going to friends parties at, like, ucla.

[Monica Padman]

That's so cute.

[Jackie Tohn]

The pictures from that time are crazy. Also, when she invited me to Taebo. This is so good. I think it's gonna be a Taebo class. Like, it's like taking a Pilates class. And they're like, this is Joseph Pilates. You're like, no, it was Billy Blank who taught the class. And in the class was Brandy Sinbad. Me and Jessica Biel.

[Dax Shepard]

Fuck, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie Tohn]

I wish there was a picture from that.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was on Ventura Board, then was at the TV Guide. TV Guide to us for sure. Now, another thing I wanted to say about your career is I think it started with a question. I was going to ask the question. You've toured both as a musician and you've toured as a standup. I just want to confirm my hunch, which is, is it easier to. To do music?

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, by a million miles.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, you can even enjoy your free Day before you perform that night, if

[Jackie Tohn]

I was still playing, I'm not doing standup as much anymore. Hardly ever. And I'm not playing music as much anymore. And it's a little weird. I remember when I was a kid and my aunt was like, I. I was learning guitar when I was like, 18, and she was like, I used to play guitar. And I remember thinking like, you used to. You play guitar, you play guitar. I haven't picked the guitar off the wall.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Jackie Tohn]

In. I mean, a lot. Long time. My guess is I was, as you've known for 20 years, clawing. My whole career has just been this absolute. I was gonna say grift, but it wasn't. I wasn't pulling one over on anyone. It just was like, I'm touring as a musician. I'm touring as a standup. I'm trying to get on tv. I have an agent. My agent dropped me. I'm on American. I'm just like, what can I do? Because all I want to do is make art and be a professional personality. So how do I monetize?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

I got on Nobody wants this. And, like, I just calmed the fuck down. Even on Glow, I was like, hey, Gag. Hey. Hey, Ga. How do I get. How do I get. What do I get? How, of all the people on this show, can I be the one who pops? There's 15 of us.

[Monica Padman]

How do I maximize this opportunity?

[Dax Shepard]

Because it's the last one I'm ever gonna have.

[Jackie Tohn]

No, no. Well, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And then it was for a while. And I lost my health insurance for years after Glow, and then finally got a weird energy commercial campaign, which was literally California only, which made me got my health insurance back in, like, 20, 22 or three.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So what started as a question about touring got sad. You're right. It got quite good. It makes me think of. I think the first time I ever cried on the show was Gordon Keith. We were interviewing him live in Dallas, and he was telling a story about he was staying in our house, we weren't out of town. And he just went through my big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, and in the first page are, like, all these different dates that have been scratched out. I got sober this time, then I got sober again this time. And so what's funny is I look at that page and I'm a little bit like, oh, my God, I was such a failure. I just couldn't do it right now. Yeah. And Gordon Keys. Like, I looked at this thing and I was like, dude, this is A guy who won't quit. And I was like, oh really me up? Because I will never give myself that kind of pat on the back. But yeah, throughout all things, I'm a dude who won't give up.

[Monica Padman]

And there's a date that isn't crossed out. Oh, you know, it's pretty, I mean it's, it's smudged.

[Jackie Tohn]

Cuz I did lines of coke off, but it's not crossed out.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm looking at this long road you've been on, now you're touring. And again I did the same thing where I was just like, dude, I'll do whatever things working slightly better than the other things. Like I write. Okay. Or I direct or I do this or I do stand up, I'm doing.

[Jackie Tohn]

So I was like, oh, that's what it is now. Okay, I'll sing now.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I look at your thing and I'm like, this fucking bitch wouldn't quit. It's so rad. This bitch wouldn't fucking quit.

[Jackie Tohn]

And that makes me freaking feel so good.

[Dax Shepard]

That's something to be more proud of than having succeeded right away.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh my God. Understatement. Not succeeded right away.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And it's kind of like a testament to. It is a war of attrition. Also, most people have moved home by

[Jackie Tohn]

now and we've talked about this and I talk about you often in interviews where I talk about how the first time I did your pod you said a similar thing to me. Similar to what your boy said about the crossing the dates out. There was a turning point for you where when you're thirsty 37 and you still haven't gotten the job and you're in your one bedroom apartment with your 15 year old RAV4.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

No one's high fiving you for your persistence.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

They're worried about you, they feel bad

[Jackie Tohn]

for you, congratulating you. And then the next year I get glow and then I'm doing all this press and everyone going like your persistence is so admirable and good for you. But six months prior it was like we hanging it up, we getting a job ready. And you pointed that out to me and I was like, oh yeah, crazy. The other reason when I talk about it in therapy, I'm like, I might be like something's broken. Maybe in a good way.

[Dax Shepard]

Probably in a good and bad way. Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Where like a lot of people just, they're not gonna. I have family members that went on two job interviews and it's too much. Yeah, they Were told no both times. And they're switching careers now because it's just. Yeah, that's not an exaggeration.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And now they're doing something else because the first job didn't work out. And now I am putting a fucking garlic and a cross to that whole career. One rejection, I couldn't count them with a gun to my head. It can't be thousands.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you can't survive here with that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes and no. Because what I admire about you, and I think it's what I did as well, which is like, I just kept pivoting. Also, you were like, I'd be happy being a singer that tours. You want to invite me to that party, I'm there 100%. You want to invite me to the acting party, I'm there 100%. I also think, yes, you shouldn't give up after two. But I also think a lot of people just aren't willing to keep trying different things. You're like, so hell bent on this one version. It has to be.

[Jackie Tohn]

The other thing is, it's impossible to say if you're not getting hired because you're just not good.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hard to know.

[Jackie Tohn]

Hard to know?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Really hard to know.

[Jackie Tohn]

And then it's like, well, it is a little psychotic. If you're like, okay, you're almost 40 and you still haven't been really hired in any meaningful way. That means with any security, for any stability or security. So it's like that same thing happens to people who just don't have the goods.

[Monica Padman]

I know it's very. It's very tricky.

[Jackie Tohn]

But with me, I was lucky because I was getting enough validation from. From big people that were like, we're going to give you a development deal. We're going to make you a show. And then just the show didn't go. I was like, well, somebody thought I was cool enough to, like, try and make something with.

[Monica Padman]

You had bites.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's not like my opinion. I'm like, taking in the feedback of this business.

[Dax Shepard]

And you have the advantage of performing live, which is very encouraging.

[Jackie Tohn]

That's the ticket too, is when I started really doing standup. This is probably a couple years before. Well, five years before Glow. That changed my whole life too, because speaking of pivoting, I was no longer waiting for the whole phone to ring. I'm a joke machine.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

I'm just gonna go out there pitching for people. So I'm out. I'm on the town managers comedy people saw me. I went and did Montreal. I'm in Action.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And that's the number one piece of advice I give them. Pivoting is really good too. But the number one piece of advice I give is like, diversify your portfolio, bitch. Do not sit there and be like, I'm an actor, I'm waiting. You can't wait for the phone to ring. And if you're an actor, you better start writing and directing and make your own shit because no one's looking for you.

[Monica Padman]

Especially now. There really is no excuse. You can make stuff all day long. You put it on Instagram, you can

[Dax Shepard]

put it on YouTube and we will dismiss you as influencers.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yes, exactly.

[Monica Padman]

You're going to have to get used to that.

[Jackie Tohn]

Thicken that skin, because it's happening.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, my very last question. Oh, I think about this often. I mostly think about it when I'm at my men's meeting because there's a bunch of men on different rungs of the ladder.

[Jackie Tohn]

Of the success ladder.

[Dax Shepard]

Of the success ladder, the Hollywood success ladder and the financial ladder. This is many status ladders. And I can see for some of these guys, I can feel that they think their position on that rung is important to me or that I even evaluate it. But when you're having those feelings, you're certain other people have decided you're not high status, us enough for them. And just on the other side, I lucky enough now to be on the very high rung of that ladder. And I've been on a very low rung of the ladder. And I now realize from the high rung, I don't think about what anybody has accomplished or how much money they have. Like, it's all in our own heads, 100%. So I'm just wondering, have you had any kind of reckoning with that? Because like you and I have been friends for 18 years. I'm not more friends with you now that you're on. Nobody wants us. And I'm not less friends with you. It has no impact on none.

[Monica Padman]

Less friends with you because you're busy.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only thing. It's like I'm kind of swamped.

[Monica Padman]

Like she like can't hang out.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But do you know the thing I'm talking about? And then once you get it, you kind of go like, oh, I will

[Jackie Tohn]

say what it has afforded me is more of a calm. I'm not so fucking thirsty. I don't have to be funny in all situations.

[Monica Padman]

That's very self aware of you to say. By the way, I'm impressed by that.

[Jackie Tohn]

Thanks I also. I remember years ago meeting, like, some of my favorite comedians, feeling this need to rise to the occasion because I know that they're funny. They don't know I'm funny. And there's that thirst of, like, you don't even mean to. And I'm not over there, like, doing a soft shoe, but I'm being, like, real bitty. And you just get to a point in your life and you're like, well, it's just nice to. You know who's a really great inspiration in this way is Sarah Silverman. Have you guys had this genius on?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, many times.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay, well, just something that's amazing about her is, like, she's never been a bitty person. She's one of the best to ever do it, in my opinion. She's absolutely a genius and a trailblazer, and she's so calm.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Tig is another example. You realize that the greats are chilling. What are you doing? And then when I'm somewhere now and someone's like, bit city, I'm like, okay, but I get it. And similar to what you were saying a second ago, it's like they feel insecure, so I don't fault them for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Like, if someone's guessing on nobody wants this, and they're doing a lot of bits in the hair and makeup trailer, it's like, that's me.

[Monica Padman]

There's something.

[Jackie Tohn]

I hear you. That's me. And I'm not like, okay, try hard. It's like, yeah, you want people to remember you and think. And I get that.

[Dax Shepard]

You have one shot. You keep having this one shot.

[Monica Padman]

And it's like, ah, this industry.

[Jackie Tohn]

I know, it's a nightmare. It's an absolute psychological warfare nightmare. And I think that for me is what. Now that I'm here and I'm moderately successful and I feel I'm doing well and I have my health and all the things, I'm just like, oh, I don't. You know what's really interesting? I went to acupuncture. This woman ran recommended this amazing acupuncturist. She and her daughter, they're this tall. They have black, like, bob hair. They look like that woman from the Incredibles.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Jackie Tohn]

I was just thinking that they're Korean and they have thick Russian accents.

[Dax Shepard]

Interesting.

[Jackie Tohn]

They are fascinating. And they are acupuncturists. In Silver Lake, the mother daughter team.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay. And you want to talk about crying? I went in there, and the woman was like, the first thing she was asking me about my ailments And I was telling her about the breasts and the. And everything. And she goes, you need to. And she's just going like this, waving her hands. She's like, calm your nervous system. In her thick Russian accent. Calm your nervous system. And I was telling her this whole story. Then she gave me a hug, cuz woman just met me. And she goes, you don't have to entertain anybody.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well then I'll have no value, truly.

[Jackie Tohn]

I mean, well then what am I? One of those fucking seaweed people that Ursula turns the mermaids into with big eyes? And I just fucking. I was like, like, what is.

[Monica Padman]

What, what, what's the point?

[Jackie Tohn]

But I just like, it was.

[Dax Shepard]

She saw right through you.

[Jackie Tohn]

Immediately I was probably like, well, I did this and I had to do this and I did the mist. I did. I had to do the boobs, but I'm going to do the other. Like, you know how I'm like trying to lighten it for someone else so they can handle it. So she's like, what have you been going through? And I'm doing the song and dance. And she said, you don't have to entertain anybody.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's wonderful.

[Dax Shepard]

Very sweet way to say it too. Whoa. Yeah. Cuz what if she had been like, just knock off the be.

[Jackie Tohn]

Truly. Enough, enough, enough, enough. Just so rude.

[Monica Padman]

Stop it, stop it.

[Jackie Tohn]

Shaking stuff in. Yeah, but it was just so profound and like, even though now I'm sitting here being like, so I don't have to do this thing anymore. That was a month ago.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

And this acupuncturist I was like doing a soft shoe number for because I just was telling her about my trauma. And so I was trying not to make it heavy. I could just as easily have like taken a breath and calmly just given her. She's like, you need to have a new mantra. And it's this. And you have to say it like this. And it's. It sounds so trite. It's whatever, I don't care. In that, like breathy. Also, Joe and I were talking about like when the student is ready, the teacher appears.

[Monica Padman]

Like, how many times in my life

[Jackie Tohn]

people have been like, you want to calm the down?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Can I trouble you to relax? But this time you could hear it. I just was like, oh, yeah, I need to breathe, bro.

[Dax Shepard]

On one.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's great.

[Jackie Tohn]

Well, Jackie, love you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you.

[Monica Padman]

We love you so much.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay, everybody, the four reasons that you should be getting genetic tested. Rare cancer, repetitive multiple cancers, young cancer, or if you're an Ashkenazi Jew. Get your [e-mail].

[Monica Padman]

i'll probably do it anyway.

[Jackie Tohn]

I'm not. You should. You should. Why not?

[Dax Shepard]

Why? It's so easy to spin a tube.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I spit them all day long just for fun.

[Jackie Tohn]

You really do. You love. He loves his dipping. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

You and Tim.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you.

[Jackie Tohn]

I love you guys. This was so special. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to have you all my freaking favorite.

[Dax Shepard]

We'll do it again soon.

[Monica Padman]

Bye, everyone. I love you. See you on season three. Wow.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob]

I'm on.

[Jackie Tohn]

Nobody wants this.

[Dax Shepard]

Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks.

[Monica Padman]

I have an update.

[Dax Shepard]

You have an update?

[Monica Padman]

Mm.

[Dax Shepard]

What is it?

[Monica Padman]

I was right again.

[Rob]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Great.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It feels so good to be right, doesn't it?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. So remember when I said you were right about my period and I gave you a whole thing about that that you were wrong?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. So it's a bad day for me and a good day for you, and

[Monica Padman]

I was right the whole time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

The day I said is the day, which is today.

[Dax Shepard]

Congratulations.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you. It came.

[Dax Shepard]

So now we have. We still don't know why you had your clothes on backwards. Yeah, that's still a big question.

[Monica Padman]

The original mystery remains.

[Dax Shepard]

My mom liked being right so much, she made up a song, and you'd hear us singing it occasionally throughout the house. And it was. It's such a good feeling to make know that you're right.

[Jackie Tohn]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

There were more lyrics, but that's the. I guess the chorus. What I remember.

[Monica Padman]

Take away. Do you think you've really like. Because you grew up hearing that, you really embodied it.

[Dax Shepard]

I just know it feels great to be right.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But it's like, do you know because of the song or do you know?

[Dax Shepard]

I heard the funniest thing once from an editor, a film editor who had cut some. A couple movies from a. An actor. And he said, yeah, you know, his thing is if he has his way, his character's arc is that he'll find out he was right the whole time. Instead of learning a lesson, his lesson will be he'll found out. They'll find out he was right the entire time.

[Monica Padman]

That's really funny. It does feel good to be right.

[Dax Shepard]

It does. It's just important not to gloat, you know? I guess that's all you can do.

[Monica Padman]

And I guess it's good to tell other people when they're right. Like I do.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Even though you were wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Wrong. I was wrong.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, this was just a topic last night in a. In a 12 step meeting, which was in the book. It said something about big shotism. You know, like, what's it say? You know, just like that we have to avoid big shot.

[Monica Padman]

Don't be a big shot.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was thinking maybe the best you can do is you just don't say anything. Like you're gonna think things. I don't know. That you can control whether you think something. It's just like the thought pops into your head and really, again, the space between your thought and your actions. Therein lies peace, or whatever the saying is. Freedom. Therein lies freedom. So I was thinking, like, no, I still have some pretty grotesque thoughts. I've just gotten good at not saying them. And that's. I feel like that's all I can. I'm capable of. And I'm proud enough of that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I mean, yes. I don't think we can control our thoughts, but we can control everything. Everything else after the thought. So we must.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Increase our bust. We must. We must.

[Monica Padman]

We don't have to do that. Everyone's boobs are great.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm trying to increase my bus pretty regularly. I'm doing bench press, which is for the pectorals.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but you don't have to increase. No one has to increase their bus. No, it's not a must. No, it's a choice.

[Dax Shepard]

But it is from Greece.

[Monica Padman]

No wonder I hate it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, that's right. You don't like Greece.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.

[Dax Shepard]

The only person in the world that. Because I don't like musicals, I. And even I'm like, it's. It's fun.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We made out under the dark.

[Monica Padman]

Please stop.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that song in particular one you hate?

[Monica Padman]

I don't like any of the songs. You know, my brother, when he was just a young baby boy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

He would be crying in the car. He was a baby. And my mom put the Grease soundtrack on and to sue them. Yes. And it worked. And especially this one song. And so we. I had to listen to it on repeat.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

To keep him from crying.

[Dax Shepard]

I got it. You've associated it with your brother's annoying behavior.

[Monica Padman]

It's separate. No, I already hated it.

[Rob]

That's.

[Dax Shepard]

What's going on.

[Monica Padman]

I already hated it. You know, it's so funny when you think back, like, my brother also was obsessed with the Backstreet Boys.

[Dax Shepard]

Interesting.

[Monica Padman]

As a little Boy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's cute.

[Monica Padman]

It's so cute. And I'm sure I was mean to him about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course you were. Does he want to go to the Sphere? Aren't they?

[Monica Padman]

I.

[Jackie Tohn]

Exactly.

[Monica Padman]

I thought about it recently. I was like, oh, he should go to that. That's his favorite band.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, when he was six. I still like everything I liked when I was six. Musically, like, I never came to hate anything that I once loved musically.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you.

[Monica Padman]

I'm trying to think. I mean, I just liked so much top 40, that I'm sure. I mean, it's hard to say now. If I heard it. I'm associating it with that time, so of course I'll like it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but.

[Monica Padman]

But do I like it? Prob.

[Jackie Tohn]

Not.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this brings up an update for me. So my deepest superstition, as you already know. Do you know what's my deepest superstition?

[Monica Padman]

Putting hats on.

[Dax Shepard]

There's one worse than that, where it really is, like, it's. It. Oh. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

Can you give me a hint? Because I do want to guess.

[Dax Shepard]

It's musical.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you have to listen to a song. There's a certain song you have to listen to twice.

[Dax Shepard]

If I hear it accidentally, I have to.

[Monica Padman]

And which one is it again?

[Dax Shepard]

Stepdad used to play. Play this song, like, at full volume. And it was like, again, it's associated with, like, maximum chaos. My brother and him fighting. And that song was always playing. And I just got it in my head that, like, if I heard it once, I had bad luck. And then I had to hear it again. But I was not allowed to touch his record player, and he had the album, so I had no control over it. The song is Jump by Van Halen. W. Jump.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I was in Nashville, and because I'm in my old cars and they don't have any way to play my phone through some of them, I was listening to the radio a on.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

So I was driving down the road by myself, and all of a sudden, jump came on.

[Monica Padman]

Did you slam?

[Dax Shepard]

My first thought. Well, my trick is if I hear it on the radio, I know this is a total workaround that everyone will call bullshit on, but I'll turn the channel to another channel, then turn it back, and I try to count that as a second. Oh. Which is, we both know that's bullshit, but that's the best I can do.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, listen. There's no rules because it's all made up.

[Dax Shepard]

It's all asinine.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I don't know why, but this song came on when I was in Nashville and I go, done with this.

[Monica Padman]

Good job.

[Dax Shepard]

We're done with this. And I'm not gonna try to listen to it twice. And then I go, and in fact, I'm adding it to my liked songs. So now it is in my liked songs, which I listen to all the time. And it comes on once and I'm like, it's a great fucking song. And you're gonna get over it. And you're gonna love immersion therapy. You're gonna enjoy it. So I've been listening to it one time randomly, a lot.

[Monica Padman]

And does your nose slowly bleed when you listen? Only once?

[Dax Shepard]

No. My eyes tear black.

[Monica Padman]

And have you had any bad luck since you started this?

[Dax Shepard]

No. Nothing discernible. No. In fact, I feel like I'm on good luck. I'm on a good luck wave. I've discovered this documentary, the Cowboys documentary, not the cheerleading one, which is also great, but a history of Jerry Jones buying the Cowboys. Are you watching it, Rob? I am not, buddy. I haven't liked to doc this much since Last Dance.

[Monica Padman]

You don't what? You just asked Rob. Because he's a boy.

[Dax Shepard]

Because he loves football.

[Monica Padman]

Because he loves football.

[Dax Shepard]

That makes sense, right? If there was a doc on the row, I go, monica, have you seen the doc on the row?

[Monica Padman]

But I love Last Dance. You know that.

[Dax Shepard]

I know you do. Have you seen it?

[Monica Padman]

Monica, can you. Can you admit that you could have just asked everyone?

[Dax Shepard]

I could have, but I would. If there was a road documentary, I wouldn't ask Rob.

[Monica Padman]

Rob does like football. That's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

He loves football also.

[Monica Padman]

He might love to watch Doc on the Row.

[Jackie Tohn]

It's probably great.

[Monica Padman]

It's probably gonna be great. And I'm gonna make it and produce it.

[Dax Shepard]

I had a really strong feeling you hadn't watched the cowboys documentary. Unfortunately, I was correct. The America's Team. The Gambler and His Cowboys. The Gambler and his Cowboys.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It's awesome. I do think you should watch it. This was all to encourage you to watch. I'm not leaving you out. I just wanted to see if I could get a two way encouragement to you to give it a shot.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you do not need to peer pressure.

[Monica Padman]

But you know I don't like peer pressure.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you don't want me to.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so just be regular.

[Dax Shepard]

You wanted me to ask if you've watched it and then. No. Not recommend it.

[Monica Padman]

No, that's not what happened. I just didn't want you to specifically ask the male in the Room About a Dog, The Football Woman. When you just equated it to Last Dance. So we know it's not just for. I don't like basketball.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't like basketball? Basketball, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I. And the Last Dance is basically my favorite show that's ever happened.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. It's a great one anyhow.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so you want me to watch it or you think everyone should watch it?

[Dax Shepard]

It's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

What characters? Jerry Jones is such a character. Can I just give you a taste of what happens? So he is a very young guy and he is, I guess a wildcat, they call him. Maybe that's not the right term. But he is buying oil fields, hoping to strike oil.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

He is so over leveraged. He's like $50 million in debt as a young man and he just keeps gambling. And when he describes the oil well, he hits the noises it was making and when it just started gushing. And then that one oil well made him $100 million.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And then he immediately took that money and bought the Cowboys. Wow. And the Cowboys are the most valuable sports team in the world.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. I knew that.

[Dax Shepard]

Every sport included, like a $13 billion value of that team.

[Monica Padman]

Wild.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And then he grabs this coach out of college, Jimmy Johnson. And it's just a great.

[Monica Padman]

It's because he has two Js.

[Dax Shepard]

It makes it really great that the alliteration's there.

[Monica Padman]

But, like, he has two Js. So he's like the only people I can hire. It's like a small pool because it has to have two Js.

[Dax Shepard]

They were on a championship college football team together and they knew each other forever. And. Did you ever watch the. You the.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, the 30 for 30.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Monica Padman]

Yes, I did.

[Dax Shepard]

So he was the coach that was like, yeah, you.

[Jackie Tohn]

I did not.

[Rob]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Well, well, well. Look at that.

[Dax Shepard]

If you remember, Jimmy Johnson was the one that was. Was like, yeah, be black. Don't listen to this. That you're a thug.

[Monica Padman]

Right?

[Dax Shepard]

He's cool.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he is cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And those two, the owner and him, you know, tough to share glory.

[Monica Padman]

It's tough to share glory.

[Dax Shepard]

It's tough to share glory. I'm not done with it. And I don't ever want it to end.

[Monica Padman]

I love when there's a show like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That was too much for me. The show. Too much on Netflix.

[Rob]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

I did start it per your recommendation. Recommendation. And I love it.

[Jackie Tohn]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's great.

[Monica Padman]

It's so.

[Dax Shepard]

It does give me anxiety.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, tell me.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause she's so fragile. Like, anything could. She could unravel over almost anything. And so it does trigger my, like, oh, my God. If I was around someone who was always like, I don't know if they're gonna unravel at this moment. Is very stressful to me.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know how far you're in, but it's interesting the way they.

[Dax Shepard]

I love him. He's so hot. He's so hot.

[Monica Padman]

So hot. I listened to this one thing on it that I thought broke it down really, really well where they were. Like, this show does such a good job of highlighting the highest or like the most manic parts of a relationship, the beginning and the end. Because she's come. She has this other relationship she has come out of.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And it's very tumultuous.

[Dax Shepard]

Some really wild.

[Monica Padman]

Isn't she? So funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she's. She's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, she's incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

And Lena's great when she's on. Yeah, it's.

[Monica Padman]

It's. It's a really good show, but really

[Dax Shepard]

great cast, really great station.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's when I was rewatching Girls and I was seeing all these people that she. That they cast for. I was like, God, yeah. Some people just really have that knack. They have an eye like Mike White.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Mike White.

[Monica Padman]

Mike White had Will Sharp and Megan Fahey on the same season of White Lotus, which means he's a genius.

[Dax Shepard]

He is a genius.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, cowboys, you love them. I'm gonna watch it.

[Dax Shepard]

So good. It's so good.

[Monica Padman]

Now I am coming off of some good luck as well.

[Dax Shepard]

You are? Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Because it's birthday luck still. I still have birthday luck. And people who listen to Will remember that at the Bowery, I got a tassel. 11:11 the room. This is incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Big story. Tassel. For my birthday, we went to the Four Seasons and went to the pool. I had to get a room for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So guess what my room number was. You already know. 11.

[Dax Shepard]

11. 12.

[Jackie Tohn]

12.

[Monica Padman]

1111 again.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie Tohn]

Gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

This should be your first tattoo.

[Monica Padman]

I actually thought that.

[Jackie Tohn]

I bet you did.

[Monica Padman]

I already thought it, which is why I can't get it, cuz I guess it's a cliche.

[Dax Shepard]

Do a lot of people have a 1111?

[Monica Padman]

No, but it's like if you thought. And I thought we all thought it

[Dax Shepard]

or it's just so on brand for you. I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. I'm not going to get any tattoos.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

But if I was, I think it

[Dax Shepard]

might be that you could get xix. It wouldn't be so obvious.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but, you know, I'm not really into Roman numerals. Roman numerals?

[Dax Shepard]

That's pretty basic stuff. It's not even.

[Monica Padman]

It's just, like.

[Dax Shepard]

It's basic.

[Monica Padman]

It's not for me.

[Dax Shepard]

It is basic.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, is this real? I think so. Okay, so for the listener, Rob just put up a photo of Jennifer Aniston. Jen Aniston. And seemingly she has 1111. Tattooed on her wrist.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Jackie Tohn]

Or maybe.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Now you can't, because if she. If we ever interview her and you have the same tattoo as her.

[Monica Padman]

But now I have to.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that tipped it.

[Monica Padman]

It was always meant to be.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

My God. Should I get one, like, because I. Since I don't really want anyone to see, you think I could just get a really tiny one in between my big toe and my second toe?

[Dax Shepard]

Toes are rough. The skin rubs off a lot. Fingers, digits, they can be tough. Like, my bell's not holding up like the rest of my tattoos.

[Monica Padman]

Well, have you ever gotten one in here? That's hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I guess that skin's. It's hard for the tattoo to stay there for whatever reason. I don't know why. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. Do you want to hear my maximum sim event of my entire life? Other than when I guess the song you were. You had made up Xanthum gum. Yeah, that still is, like. That can't have happened.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Xanthum gum. Okay, so I wrote this script called Send Lawyers Guns and Money, right? And it was about my last week of drinking in Kauai. And while I was writing it, I'm just, like, swimming in the Warren Z. Von song, Send Lawyers Guns and Money. Do you know that song?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I'll cover my face and say it to you. I took home the barmaid like I always do. How was I to know know she was with the Russian two.

[Jackie Tohn]

Hey.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's Send lawyers guns and money. The has hit the fan. So as I'm writing this script, and it's about my last week in Hawaii of using, I decide I should learn to play that guitar. I should learn to play that song on the guitar. So I go on YouTube and I'm trying to find some footage of him playing that so I can look at the chords. And I find this video of him in a small venue, and he's talking to the crowd, and he says, I wrote this song after. Oh, I gotta add my last week of drinking In Hawaii was. I was taking a vacation between movies because I was exhausted and I needed a break.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It didn't turn out to be a replenishing trip, as you can imagine.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So he goes. Yeah. I wrote this song after couple years of hard work, and I decided to take an isle. A trip down to the islands of Hawaii. And after a week of improbable danger and something. I decided I shouldn't take vacations. I took home the barmaid, and I was sitting at the computer going, what the. This song is about his week in Hawaii.

[Monica Padman]

That's wild.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought it was going to evaporate into the clouds at that point.

[Monica Padman]

My dad was helping your sim even before we met.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's all been orchestrated from 1987. You don't even. We don't even know if I existed before 1987.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because even for you, that was the best year of your life.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So, like, it's all really stinks. It's stinky stanky. Really stinky in here. Anyway, so birthday luck is continuing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Birthday weekend was really nice. Ended up at the. Oh. I wanted to check something. Maybe another sim moment.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Can I look up when War Dogs was. I'm gonna. I already did. 2016. Dang. Oops. One year off.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Because in 2016, it was my birthday, and Kristen planned.

[Dax Shepard]

You were turning 29, I guess. No.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah. I was turning 29, and Kristen planned an escape room party for me and her and you and a group of people. It was. It was really exciting. We get there, go inside, ready to escape. And she had accidentally booked it for the wrong day, which was fine. But I was like, what are we gonna do now?

[Dax Shepard]

Textbook bell.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

This is kind of her move.

[Monica Padman]

It happens.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So, you know, it's like, what are we gonna do now? And we pivoted plans. It was your idea. You said, let's go to the chateau and have some dinner, have Bolognese. I had never been there, and I'd been trying to go for a long time.

[Jackie Tohn]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

And it was really exciting and fun. Then we saw War Dogs. That was like a big birthday. I remember. And it was a good pivot, and the Bolognese was so good. And was it. It was very exciting. And on my birthday, it was a lazy day. I stayed at the Four Seasons, so then I, like, woke up and I was just lazy. Callie told me I should order a milkshake in. In my robe. Room service. I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

But I.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a rough way to start your day.

[Monica Padman]

That's why I was like, it's too early.

[Dax Shepard]

Downhill for me.

[Monica Padman]

But it also sounded nice. But. Yeah. Anyway. And then I went to Sunset Tower.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

I went shopping. I got myself a cute apple outfit and I went to Sunset Tower. And then Sunset Tower turned into the chateau where I had bolognese for dinner.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Jackie Tohn]

I did.

[Monica Padman]

And I thought.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you see anyone?

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't think so.

[Jackie Tohn]

I don't really.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't see very well.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I don't have good eyes. And I thought it was its ten year anniversary, but I guess was its nine year anniversary.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

So that is not as sim as I wanted it to be.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It's still great.

[Monica Padman]

Still great.

[Dax Shepard]

Great day. That's a fun tradition.

[Monica Padman]

It is a fun tradition. Maybe I'll. Maybe that'll be a new tradition.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You want to ask me Monica out?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. Speaking of this. Okay. I probably shouldn't do it like this. With this like long. This like long face.

[Rob]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

It sounds like bad news is coming.

[Monica Padman]

It's not bad news. Great news. It's great news for the world. Travis and Taylor are engaged.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And everyone is happy. And I'm so happy. She seems so happy. It makes me feel really fuzzy, like she got it all and she deserves it and I. I love it. And it's hopeful.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Great.

[Monica Padman]

You know, Lincoln said that they like announced it. They either announced it or like a teacher. The teacher came like into the classroom and told everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All girls school.

[Monica Padman]

Girls school. This is incredible.

[Jackie Tohn]

Anyway, anyway.

[Monica Padman]

But I, I forgot that the whole reason they're together is their podcast, New Heights.

[Dax Shepard]

He.

[Monica Padman]

So he went to the concert to try to give her phone number. Yes. And, but he didn't. He couldn't see her. So then on the show, his brother asked, how was the concert? He said, well, I'm kind of butt hurt because I really wanted to talk to her, but she doesn't talk to people before or after shows. And I wanted to give her my bracelet. Has my phone number on it. Yeah. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

That's cute. Oh, did he put his phone number in the bracelet? Oh, that's adorable.

[Monica Padman]

Adorable.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And look, that got him a wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And here we are.

[Dax Shepard]

One of the more coveted wives out there.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And here we are almost eight years in to this show and I have zero husbands.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but, but, but okay, so I. So what she did is she heard that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then she reached out and he said yes.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. There's a lot of people in the comments that are saying you're hot and they want to meet you, but see you.

[Monica Padman]

Go ahead.

[Dax Shepard]

You have said many times you don't

[Monica Padman]

want to date a listener unless they're Taylor Swift.

[Jackie Tohn]

Okay, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Also, she wasn't a listener. Just got back to her. Okay, okay. So who. Like, I mean, I could on here. You know what's unfair? I. I would look crazy, and he didn't look crazy, and that's.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he had a lot going for him.

[Monica Padman]

No, I have a lot going for me. What do you mean?

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's. It's. It's inherently adorable that this enormous football player, this gruff bone crusher, made a Taylor Swift bracelet.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So you have to do something as completely out of the box as that. That's what made that so adorable. It's like, oh, wow, that guy made a bracelet with his number for Taylor Swift.

[Monica Padman]

It was really cute.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a lot to the product.

[Monica Padman]

You know, it's like, what am I supposed to do? Like, go beat someone up? Well, we gotta have scars on and, like, talk about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I mean, get good with a butterfly knife and pull a butterfly knife. Like, you gotta. You gotta put the same effort he put into it.

[Monica Padman]

It takes, like, four minutes to make a friendship bracelet.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to start by pursuing someone, which he did. Yeah. So, yeah, you're gonna have to pursue. Like he did. And then he got the woman of his dreams.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, you're. Yes, that is all true. This is all correct. But. And I'm kidding, and I do think maybe I'm wrong, but I want to be honest.

[Dax Shepard]

Feeling to know that you're right.

[Monica Padman]

I want to be honest. I think if a girl did that. Did that exact thing. He did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Went to Chris Martin's show, wanted to give him a thing, didn't get to. Went on her podcast and was like, ugh. Like, I didn't get to give him my phone number. I'm sad about that. I don't think people would think it was as cute as what happened.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, you're trying to frame it as female, male.

[Monica Padman]

I'm just asking. I'm not trying to say it's sexist, but I'm really trying. Like, I'm being honest.

[Dax Shepard]

Girl did that.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So you are framing it as, there's a double standard between men and women.

[Monica Padman]

But I'm not trying to make it. I'm just being honest about the fact that I think I even would be like, that's not.

[Dax Shepard]

If he had gone to a Shania Twain concert hoping to bump into her and give her a number. That's not what it was. You're. You're really ignoring the fact that it was a huge NFL player. That was a swifty. That was such a. That. That's such a unique thing. That's what's happening there. It's not that he's male or female. It's that here's the last guy you expect to be a swifty is a swifty.

[Monica Padman]

Well then. Okay, so then that's. So if that'd be like you going

[Dax Shepard]

to find some grungy punk rock dude and you come and bring him flowers or something, you know, that's.

[Monica Padman]

That's just not my type.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, but that's why. That's not a story. But it's not cuz you're a woman. It's because it's not this crazy. First time you've ever heard this?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Was he a swifty or was he just wanting to date her?

[Dax Shepard]

I think he's a swifty. Well, now he knows to make the bracelet.

[Monica Padman]

Now he's a swifty.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet he's a swift. A lot of Andrew Schultz is a huge swifty.

[Monica Padman]

I know. So then if a lot of people are swifties, then why would it be

[Dax Shepard]

mostly women are swifties? I've been to a show. It's 90 plus percent female.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I guess

[Jackie Tohn]

it's.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very female.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, well, whatever. I guess this is getting twisted.

[Dax Shepard]

So if you were like. If there was like some punk band that only dudes liked. Megadeth.

[Monica Padman]

Ew.

[Dax Shepard]

See this?

[Monica Padman]

I don't even know what that is, but I'm never gonna date a death guy. Pro death. Not even pro mad.

[Dax Shepard]

We're trying to make this apples to apples. So you would have to have entered into the most masculine scene and people would go like, oh, my God, this cute little girl likes these.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God, dad sack. I kind of like looks like you on the right.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. That's not flattering.

[Monica Padman]

No, different hair. What do you mean he's not. He's not unattractive.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a story. That. That's my point is you showing up at that show. Is it? You showing up at a Slayer show and you're in love with the drummer is hilarious. This is them now, so they're maybe a little older for, you know. Yeah, you got to find the equivalent of Mega Death or Metallica of this era. And people go like, oh, that super cute, liberal little podcast host. Loved that. Crazy maniac rocker. That's a story.

[Monica Padman]

But I'm gonna push on Back on that. Like, it's not. It's not crazy for any man to like Taylor Swift. She's a. She's a very cute, blonde, pretty girl with a. With a talent.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's crazy. And the reaction would substantiate that. That one of the most gruesome NFL players was a Swifty. That is. That's why it was so contagious.

[Monica Padman]

Versus wanted to. To go on a date with her.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm saying Swifty.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

When I heard is like, this guy knows about the bracelets. He made her a bracelet. He's a Swifty.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, can we. You're saying it so, like, you know, 100 and we don't. Because he went there. He said he went there because he was a Swifty.

[Dax Shepard]

He's in love with her. He wanted to give her a number.

[Monica Padman]

He. He. He wanted ye to give.

[Dax Shepard]

You're saying he just wanted to her.

[Monica Padman]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying he liked her. Like, he was like, I want to date that girl. That girl seems awesome. She's pretty, she's talented, she's cool. I want to date her. Like, I think a lot of men think about Taylor. I will say, and I don't know about the Megadeth community, but my guess is great backstory.

[Dax Shepard]

Dave Mustang was in Metallic Alica and left. He got kicked out of the band and then started that band, which became their big rival.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Rob. Is that. Yeah, that's it. He's in the doc talking about how it haunted him even though he sold 15 million records still.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Still thought about getting kicked over.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well, I'm sure a lot of women want to date and marry them. Marrying Megadeth, I'm gonna just say, as a whole, is a real choice.

[Jackie Tohn]

Like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you don't want.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. I totally met them, so maybe I'd love them.

[Dax Shepard]

They're also way older.

[Monica Padman]

I don't care.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, I'm saying the equivalent of Megadeth.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but I'm just saying I think that's, like, a real choice, and I think dating Taylor is. Is like dating Bradley or like Timmy or like someone huge in the popular zeitgeist. Not niche.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. They're enormous. They sold 50 million.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great.

[Dax Shepard]

Metallica's not niche at all. Metallica.

[Monica Padman]

No, I know Metallica.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But. No, but it's still niche to date.

[Dax Shepard]

What? I think we have a different opinion. I think what was charming about the entire Travis Taylor Story is that this big NFL player was a sweetie at heart. Cause he was a swiftie.

[Monica Padman]

He's a sweetie.

[Dax Shepard]

And I think an equally big story story would be that this sweetie liberal little girl is into this crazy off the chain band. That's the story that I'm seeing. Other people would also find that charming. And the members would be the guys, the women that came to shows. I've been to these shows. The ones that came that were attracted to Megadeth, they looked like they were in Megadeth.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't. If you showed up in the row with flowers, that's a story.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but I just like, no one think you're crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

They'd be so charmed by how unexpected this obsession is of yours.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I guess you're right. There's an element of unexpected. I'm just. The problem is I'm not unexpected.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, you are. In areas that you don't have any interest in.

[Monica Padman]

What do you mean?

[Dax Shepard]

You don't like Metallica.

[Monica Padman]

That's what I'm saying. That's expected. I'm saying I'm not. I'm saying the problem is I'm not unexpected. The things I like are expected.

[Dax Shepard]

Right? Yes.

[Monica Padman]

So this is the problem is my point.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You'd have to.

[Monica Padman]

So I'm not gonna be able to because you're gonna.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna give flowers to the same guy every girl likes already.

[Monica Padman]

Should I say it? That it's Josh o'? Connor?

[Dax Shepard]

Say it. I don't know why we're holding back.

[Monica Padman]

He's dating someone.

[Dax Shepard]

He's not always gonna be dating someone.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe he is and I. I wish them well. If that's true. Josh o' Connor is extremely attractive. And I find him very cute and endearing and fashion. Yeah. And he is exactly expected for who I would like.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Monica Padman]

So it's not going to come as a shock, but I guess I'm calling it in. But I not because that's actually rude. Because he's dating someone.

[Dax Shepard]

Like if you tried to date Ben Shapiro. Dax, I'm saying if you tried to date Ben Shapiro, you're putting me in a tough situation. He would absolutely notice that happen. He'd be like, you're kidding me.

[Monica Padman]

She.

[Dax Shepard]

She wrote me a letter and likes me of another right wing. It wouldn't break through the clutter.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's fine. I'm not. I can't go against my values. I don't think Travis went against his values. And I don't think even me. It wouldn't be going against my values for mega death either, because I don't know. Well, unless, again, I'm not really pro death, so maybe it is against my values, but I.

[Dax Shepard]

You think about it a lot and so do they. So that's a good match made in heaven. They're just more mega of what you already are.

[Monica Padman]

That wouldn't be a good match. I need someone to.

[Dax Shepard]

You need someone.

[Monica Padman]

Death talk. You know?

[Dax Shepard]

That's true. That's true. Should we do some facts?

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

You should date the singer of Ghost.

[Jackie Tohn]

That's.

[Dax Shepard]

That's some equivalent. Or if Monica hit on one of them. Oh, I was gonna say Guar. Guar. Guys, I think they're older. A picture of G. I know they're too old, but that guy doesn't look terribly young either.

[Monica Padman]

Creeps.

[Dax Shepard]

Rob, where do you see Guar? Yeah, I got to get a good one. Truly, you'd stop the whole show if you got up on stage during GWAR and presented one of them with, like, an axe. Like a custom engraved axe.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna have nightmares about that.

[Dax Shepard]

That people. That would make national news.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. I take that down. That is truly scary.

[Dax Shepard]

They, like, shoot blood out of their guitars.

[Jackie Tohn]

Penis.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They have like.

[Monica Padman]

Here, wait, I got one more spikes on.

[Dax Shepard]

Show the whole band. That one's a little intense. This guy, you. His penis is out. Oh, he's got several penises.

[Monica Padman]

Penis is out.

[Dax Shepard]

He's got several. I mean, it's not as real. No, the prosthetics, they shoot like blood. Yeah, and he's got two of them, you guys. Oh, there's the whole gang.

[Monica Padman]

This is so unfair. I have to date gwar.

[Dax Shepard]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying you have to date. I'm saying if you want it to be the same story.

[Monica Padman]

But it's so unfair.

[Dax Shepard]

It's got to be that crazy where people go like, I can't believe Monica likes Guar.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think it's going to work out with me and Guar.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, let's put it another way now. Now he's turned a corner. But there was a period where Marilyn Manson could have been the thing because he right after bullying Colin Bind, and all we really knew was like, wow, this guy's way fucking smarter and more thoughtful than we knew. And you were super into it. And you came this little good girl from a podcast and you approached him.

[Monica Padman]

What a good girl.

[Dax Shepard]

It would catch his attention.

[Monica Padman]

I am not interested in people who like to say Scare other people. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, so it's not gonna happen.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, guar call me, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Hit me on Instagram. Gore.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so he's. He has nasal polyps, unfortunately.

[Dax Shepard]

Jason. Yeah, that sounds rough.

[Monica Padman]

Nasal polyps are soft, painless, non cancerous growth that develop in the lining of the nose, nose or sinuses. They are often associated with chronic inflammation and can cause nasal congestion, a runny nose, and impaired sense of smell.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think I have nasal polyps? I thought I had allergies, but maybe I have some. I doubt I have polyps because I get the screen all the time, the butt exam, colonoscopy, and they've never found a polyp, so I don't think I'm palpate.

[Monica Padman]

Are they looking in your nose?

[Dax Shepard]

No, but I'm thinking if you're a pelpy person, you're a pelpy person.

[Monica Padman]

I don't want to make that connection.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone get a colonoscopy. Those are all my symptoms.

[Monica Padman]

No, you have a. You can smell things.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. Remember I smelled your shirt the other day and I couldn't smell anything?

[Monica Padman]

No, you walked in, you were like, something smells funny that no one else smelled. And then I assumed it was my

[Dax Shepard]

venture, smelling my polyps. Maybe they smell musty.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's possible. While anyone can get them, they're more common in adults, particularly those with conditions like asthma or allergies. Treatment options range from medications to surgery, depending on the size and specific the severity of the polyps. So he want. He needs surgery, but he doesn't want to get it.

[Dax Shepard]

Scary.

[Monica Padman]

Very scary.

[Dax Shepard]

And when you're. That's your career.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Getting in there and messing around, monkeying around.

[Monica Padman]

Although, you know, it's funny, speaking of surgeries and people getting plastic surgery.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You know, it is like people are really willy nilly with their. Their face and their face is what got them there in the first place.

[Dax Shepard]

The money maker.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's tricky.

[Dax Shepard]

I think facelift have evolved. I think they too have like, gone through the same radical progress all medicine has. I think they're different than in the 70s when Burt Reynolds was getting them, you know?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. More people are getting them. That's.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that they're different now too. I think there's like different versions that you can get that aren't just like, you know, the Burt Reynolds kind.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. I think it's still, like, it's still in a surgery, I think. But yeah, like, you gotta be careful.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I keep hearing they're very Common. Are you hearing a lot of people?

[Monica Padman]

Apparently, yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Apparently have them.

[Monica Padman]

I have.

[Dax Shepard]

You had one?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

But then I would love one. But when could I do it? When would I be able to recover? We're on camera every day of the year. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think you should get it.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I'm not good looking enough. That's not my brand. You know, if I was like a pretty boy or gorgeous, I'd have to. That's my thing. And I'm just kind of like. Someone wrote a comment. Oh. Because I talked to camera to explain why the episode wasn't up. And a guy wrote, your face looks like a scrotum.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. But Dax, that's also because.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that accurate?

[Monica Padman]

No, it's not. But I did watch the video and I was like, why is he holding it like that?

[Dax Shepard]

You thought it looked like a scrotum.

[Monica Padman]

I did not think that, but I did think he is putting zero effort into, like, making himself look how he actually looks. Like it was, like, held it. Kind of a weird angle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You know why?

[Monica Padman]

And then you're, like, rubbing your eyes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You know why?

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

I was on the couch and I'm like, I gotta address this. It's so frustrating that people think we just didn't put an episode out.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I'm in my house and my kids are running around and, like, I'm not trying to show too much of my internal personal space, so I'm like, trying to find an angle where no kids are running by, you know? And so I think it was a. It was a function over fashion.

[Monica Padman]

I understand.

[Dax Shepard]

Decision.

[Monica Padman]

I understand.

[Dax Shepard]

But the problem's been fixed and it's down now.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, the episode. Oh, you took the episode.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, because it no longer was relevant.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

Well, then no one can see what we're talking about.

[Dax Shepard]

You were a little disappointed with the angle. Well, I was like, he's really gotten reckless.

[Monica Padman]

I wish he could have talked to me about this before he did it. And then also, like, we could have held the camera a little different or something anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

Because people find everything like, what's funny is so many. I kept seeing in the comments, like, yeah, shut the door. The AC's on. And then I immediately get defensive and I'm like, the door was open. They think that we had the door open. The AC was on. No, they're talking about a little piece of paper that says on the door, shut the door. The AC is on that they're reading backwards. That's not lit. I had to dig in. This video to see what the hell they were talking about.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Jackie Tohn]

And that's.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what it was. That's why, like, I had to hold it where just, you know, you can't.

[Monica Padman]

You should have just come in here and done it. This space is already exposed. Like.

[Dax Shepard]

Feels very.

[Monica Padman]

Just like, check. You know, just maybe check in with me. I have a lot of.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a lot of thoughts about it.

[Monica Padman]

I have a lot of experience in PR. Okay. Broken bow records. We said he joined in 20. 2003-2003-2003-2005. 2005. According to the Internet.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Did Waylon Jennings have a history of cheating? Yes. He had a reputation for infidelity during his marriage to Jesse Coulter. While they were a couple known for their strong partnership and love both in life and music, Jennings also struggled with substance abuse and infidelity, which was openly discussed in Jesse Coulter's autobiography.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh, I should read that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you should. Um, okay. The Vegas shooting. I was really grateful that he talked about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Me too.

[Monica Padman]

Cause that's a really vulnerable, hard thing to talk about.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was happy that he did. Impressed that he did. Yeah, it was in 2017. It was really bad. Deadliest mass shooting by a lone gunman in American history.

[Dax Shepard]

Horrendous.

[Monica Padman]

Horrendous. And I can't imagine being at the show.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Being the person that has all these

[Dax Shepard]

people here, you know, that happened at our Alive event. The guilt I'd have over.

[Jackie Tohn]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

But then we talked about sn. Him doing snl, and then he was saying that he wrote his own. Like, he was like, I'm not having anyone write anything for me for that. So he wrote with his people, I guess. And he said this. I'm Jason Aldean. This week, we witnessed one of the worst tragedies in American history. Like everyone, I'm struggling to understand what happened that night. How to pick up the pieces and start to heal. So many people are hurting. There are children, parents, brothers, sisters, friends, and they are all part of our family. So I want to say to them, we hurt for you, and we hurt with you. You can be sure that we are going to walk through these tough times together every step of the way. Because when America is at its best, our bond and our speed are unbreakable. And then he played Tom Petty's I Won't Back down because he had just passed away.

[Jackie Tohn]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Lot happened.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So. Oh, and it was. Gal Gadot was the host. Okay, well, that.

[Dax Shepard]

That's it.

[Jackie Tohn]

All right.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you love.

[Monica Padman]

Sam.