James Marsden

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: James Marsden Episode Summary

Release Date: February 3, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, host Dax Shepard and co-host Monica Padman welcome actor James Marsden for an in-depth conversation. The episode delves into Marsden's illustrious career, personal experiences, and his latest projects, providing listeners with a comprehensive look into the life of one of Hollywood's versatile actors.

James Marsden's Career Overview

James Marsden reflects on his journey in the entertainment industry, highlighting his early roles and the growth he's experienced over the years. Dax Shepard opens the discussion by humorously addressing Marsden's recognition as GQ's "Handsome Man," setting a lighthearted tone.

Notable Roles and Career Highlights

Marsden discusses some of his most memorable roles, including his performances in X-Men, Enchanted, The Notebook, and 27 Dresses. He particularly emphasizes his standout role in the reality comedy Jury Duty, describing it as a project where he truly "blew our minds" with his comedic prowess.

James Marsden (01:10): "He's absolutely incredible."

Personal Memories and Encounters

The conversation takes a nostalgic turn as Marsden shares his first encounter with Dax Shepard. Recalling a chance meeting at a restaurant, Marsden recounts how Shepard's charisma left a lasting impression.

James Marsden (11:15): "You're the person I've seen most at races."

Formula One and Racing Passion

Marsden delves into his passion for Formula One racing, discussing how his personal connections and experiences have deepened his appreciation for the sport. He contrasts his initial skepticism with a newfound understanding of the intricate strategies involved in racing.

James Marsden (14:00): "Now I get what's going on. Managing tires, pitting strategies—there's a lot beneath the surface."

High-Profile Roles and Acting Challenges

The dialogue shifts to Marsden's experiences on high-profile sets like X-Men and Superman Returns. He candidly discusses feelings of imposter syndrome amidst seasoned actors and the pressures of portraying iconic characters such as Cyclops.

Dax Shepard (40:10): "When X-Men hit, I felt like I certainly didn't belong there."

Personal Life and Family Dynamics

Marsden opens up about his upbringing in Oklahoma, his relationship with his siblings, and the impact of his parents' divorce on his emotional well-being. He provides insight into balancing personal struggles with his professional life.

James Marsden (25:22): "I feel like I haven't come to terms with it yet."

Reflection on Being an Actor and Imposter Syndrome

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the emotional challenges actors face, such as imposter syndrome and the constant comparison to peers. Marsden and Shepard explore the psychological aspects of acting and maintaining self-confidence in a competitive industry.

James Marsden (37:32): "I still feel like I'm faking it, to be honest."

Experiences on "Jury Duty" Reality Show

Marsden provides an insider's perspective on his experience working on Jury Duty, a reality show where participants believe they are serving on a real jury while interacting with actors. He discusses the ethical considerations, the balance between comedy and kindness, and the genuine friendships formed during the production.

James Marsden (68:07): "James, this is one of the greatest things you've ever done, but you're doing it with such kindness."

Current Projects and Future Work

The episode concludes with Marsden sharing details about his new Hulu series Paradise. He describes the show's complex narrative and his excitement about exploring new creative territories. The hosts express their enthusiasm for the project, highlighting its unique premise and Marsden's role within it.

Dax Shepard (144:04): "Paradise. I think it's a banger of a show."

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, James Marsden's candidness and introspection offer listeners a multifaceted view of his life and career. From discussing the highs of landing significant roles to navigating personal challenges, Marsden exemplifies the "messiness of being human" that Armchair Expert celebrates. The conversational dynamics between Marsden, Shepard, and Padman create an intimate and relatable narrative, making this episode a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Notable Quotes

• Dax Shepard (40:10): "When X-Men hit, I felt like I certainly didn't belong there."
• James Marsden (37:32): "I still feel like I'm faking it, to be honest."
• James Marsden (68:07): "This is one of the greatest things you've ever done, but you're doing it with such kindness."
• Dax Shepard (144:04): "Paradise. I think it's a banger of a show."

Final Thoughts

James Marsden's episode on Armchair Expert offers a rich tapestry of experiences, emotions, and insights. His ability to intertwine humor with vulnerability provides a compelling narrative that resonates with listeners, encapsulating the essence of what it means to explore and celebrate human stories.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free Right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Sheppard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Today we have a very handsome guest.

[Monica Padman]

We sure do.

[Dax Shepard]

He was one one time named GQ's handsomest man.

[Monica Padman]

Golly. What does it feel like?

[Dax Shepard]

Would you rather have. Is it. Does people do sexiest?

[Monica Padman]

Sexiest. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Would they have handsomest man GQ or sexiest man People?

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Great, great Q. Great, great gq. I would rather have handsomeness. That means like timeless actually.

[Dax Shepard]

I want sexy, sexy boy, sexy guy, sexy, sexy person, friendly, friendly boy, best.

[Monica Padman]

Boy, sexy man, cool guy. Get it right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. James Marsden. You've been watching him forever. I've been losing roles to him for a good 25 years. X Men Enchan, the Notebook, 27 dresses. But I think where he really, absolutely blew our minds was Jury Duty.

[Monica Padman]

So good. If you haven't seen Jury Duty, stop right now and go watch it.

[Dax Shepard]

Find it. Watch it. He's absolutely incredible. And he has a new show out on Hulu streaming now called paradise and I am not lying. It is. It's got his hooks in the whole family.

[Monica Padman]

You're in. I'm so excited to watch it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we're very, very in. It's Dan Folgama.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Very loved and esteemed writer and an incredible premise. So please enjoy James Marsden. We are supported by Mint Mobile. It's time to leave your overpriced wireless plans. Jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. Get huge savings With Mint Mobile. They're offering any three month plan for only 15 bucks a month. Even their unlimited plan. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network network. You can even bring your current phone and number. Ditch overpriced wireless With Mint Mobile, it's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] Dax that's mintmobile.com Dax keep your money where you can see it and stop overpaying for wireless. Upfront payment of $45 for three months. 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra cement Mobile for details, we are supported by Tropical Smoothie Cafe. February is the month of romance and to celebrate, Tropical Smoothie Cafe is remixing a classic with their fan favorite Chocolate covered strawberry smoothie. Featuring a delicious blend of strawberries, dark chocolate, white chocolate, banana and non fat yogurt, this crave worthy flavor is only available for a limited time. Limited edition, yes, in app and online. Prepare for love at first sip. And if you're a fan of their Tropic bowls, make your taste buds swoon this Valentine's Day season with their new Nutella drizzle. Add on. There's just something about chocolate that says romance, isn't there?

[Monica Padman]

There sure is. Chocolate's done a great job marketing to lovers. Love.

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely. This month, gift a loved one or be your own valentine by indulging in refreshing tropical goodness. Because at Tropical Smoothie Cafe, it's always tropic time. Order ahead, take the scenic route and earn rewards with the Tropical Smoothie Cafe app. Download it today. Visit tropicalsmoothi cafe.com to find a cafe near you. He's an object expert.

[James Marsden]

He's an object expert.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you happen to hear me interview Toto?

[James Marsden]

I did not.

[Dax Shepard]

You're missing out on one of the greatest visual experiences ever. To watch Toto Wolf be charming for two hours.

[James Marsden]

I'm so out of it. I'm like the band Toto like. Oh, Toto Wolf from Mercedes. That chief.

[Dax Shepard]

Louis. I know. The car is no good. You have to drive it. I thought if one would come across your desk, that would be the episode.

[James Marsden]

Several have come across my. Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. How are you?

[James Marsden]

James. Nice to meet you. Monica.

[Dax Shepard]

You gonna go squirt or anything? Take a little peek?

[James Marsden]

Go squirt. Good. Actually.

[Dax Shepard]

You want to go number two? You want to hop?

[Monica Padman]

We can step out.

[James Marsden]

I feel like this is a trap.

[Monica Padman]

We can always stop.

[James Marsden]

My bowels are comfortable. My bladder is evacuated. I remember I ran into you in Austin at the. Not this last year's race. It was the prior year. We run into each other after jury duty.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, a few times. I want to say Miami.

[James Marsden]

Were you there? Inaugural.

[Dax Shepard]

I was there first and second year.

[James Marsden]

First year was a mess.

[Dax Shepard]

First year was a little rough. Wobby. I sound crazy. I don't know if there's been an adjustment.

[James Marsden]

Tea kettle going nuts.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's probably part of. Just turn me down. Touch James a little hot. Believe it or not, I can back off. No, no, I want your full.

[Monica Padman]

Can you whisper timber and tambor?

[James Marsden]

Do some. What's it called?

[Dax Shepard]

Asmr.

[James Marsden]

Whatever it is. Oh, that's a personality test. Right. ASMR if you'd like me to back.

[Dax Shepard]

We could do asmr, but we could also do EMT therapy.

[Monica Padman]

EMT therapy or tmj. That issue people have with their jaw.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. With your mouth.

[James Marsden]

So funny you say that. Uh, oh, because you ever get one ear that's clogged from going in elevation or up or down?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

Had that now for like 45 minutes. And I keep doing this thing with my jaw that makes me look like a crazy person.

[Monica Padman]

Can you yawn?

[James Marsden]

That's what my son told me to do. But I'm like, how is yawning different than just doing that?

[Monica Padman]

No, it opens. It does something. Try it.

[James Marsden]

It's so much effort to actually yawn.

[Dax Shepard]

Give us a good, good yawn. Change your very best now.

[James Marsden]

It's like your audience is going to be like, terrific. This is going to be a great chat. We're going to be yawning.

[Dax Shepard]

I like the notion that you are paying for such a dominant chin and jawline.

[Monica Padman]

That is probably why you have that.

[Dax Shepard]

Really cute kind of cleft. Just a touch of a clef. Right. You would agree.

[James Marsden]

I don't know about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

This little old teacup chin. Not very manly, is it?

[Dax Shepard]

This little teacup chin is taking you all around the world, my friend.

[James Marsden]

My first band. This little teacup chin. Just take me around the world. I'm very grateful.

[Dax Shepard]

Back to Toto Wolf. Do you share in the world's obsession with him? When I think of who the sexiest, coolest guy in all of F1 is, it's not any of the drivers. It's actually Toto.

[James Marsden]

Agree. And there's a mystery. Always following the guy around.

[Dax Shepard]

And you've stood next to him.

[James Marsden]

I have. And he's always very kind. He'll make a point to. In the middle of the race, come in from the garage and go through the hospitality. Then come over and say, hello, how are you? I'm gonna up the accent.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I know you can do it.

[James Marsden]

Yes. Have you been in the garage?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

That's pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

That's not terrible.

[James Marsden]

Very nice guy, but he's an enigma.

[Dax Shepard]

He is. And he's such a towering hulk of.

[James Marsden]

A man and fit. Do one of those slap him on the arm things and it's like marble.

[Dax Shepard]

Scares you.

[Monica Padman]

Do you like men's bodies?

[James Marsden]

That's a great diving. Right.

[Monica Padman]

We got to get there fast.

[James Marsden]

What I was prepared for.

[Monica Padman]

On a scale of 1 to 10.

[James Marsden]

On a scale of 1 to DAX. How do I like men's bodies?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

I'm fully obsessed I can appreciate a great man's body.

[Dax Shepard]

Hit me with a couple that you love. Like, I'll go first. Dennis Rodman win with the Bulls or the Lakers?

[James Marsden]

What was specific about his body?

[Dax Shepard]

He had really, really big shoulders, yet really thin, long trunk.

[James Marsden]

Remember David Robinson?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. The Admiral you could land a plane on.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Rodman would all agree on Pit Fight Club.

[James Marsden]

I was going to say Brad. Pit Fight Club.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

It was on display as well.

[Dax Shepard]

But he's very tiny in that. He's like around 140 in that. He's just so cut.

[James Marsden]

He's got one of those long torsos, too, which I always wanted. I'm not a super tall guy, but my legs are longer in proportion.

[Monica Padman]

That's how mine are.

[James Marsden]

They're longer than my torso. And I want to stretch this out.

[Dax Shepard]

You guys should have a child that's an ostrich together.

[Monica Padman]

Just huge legs, enormous legs.

[James Marsden]

Not even torso, just neck to legs.

[Monica Padman]

Dax just sent me a video on Instagram of the tallest woman and shortest.

[James Marsden]

Woman I think I saw. This was like a puberty post they.

[Dax Shepard]

Got together for tea.

[James Marsden]

Are the mugs separate sizes as well?

[Dax Shepard]

I hope, because the tiny mug is.

[Monica Padman]

Bigger than the girl.

[Dax Shepard]

She's kind of inconceivably tiny. If you saw her at a distance, you wouldn't really have any idea. She looks kind of proportional.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Next to the giant woman, of course. Yes. Standing bad.

[Monica Padman]

Either of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Household.

[James Marsden]

Is she? She looked eight foot something. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

She's probably eight foot something. And I said it looked like a version of you. And I sure, sure, girl kind of looked like me. And I kind of kind of look like you.

[Dax Shepard]

I kind of look like the woman. Something about it felt just so science fictiony. I think it's crazy that a mastiff and a Chihuahua are the same species and can have an offspring.

[James Marsden]

Is that true?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The definition of the same species is they can have a fertile offspring.

[James Marsden]

Sure. But that would need some help.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know if you got the Chihuahua male little stool.

[Monica Padman]

So, yeah, that's how that would be assistance. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They're the same species, and you're looking at them going, oh, my God. We're so hung up on these little differences skin color. And I look at a Chihuahua in a massive. I'm like, that's a gap. That's a delta in a species. So in general, it's not a lot of variety. But then when you see that video, you go, okay, it can also happen with us.

[James Marsden]

I see the variety when I go to sit courtside at a NBA game in proportion to these guys. And so athletic. Like some people who are just tall. You see these guys just sprinting twice as fast as you could, and they're 6, 9.

[Dax Shepard]

I think LeBron might be the best example of that. I don't know. Is he 6 or 10 or 11?

[James Marsden]

6, 8.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. But he is sprinting down the court with great ball handling.

[James Marsden]

He's an Adonis. There's a body you like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, good body.

[James Marsden]

Let's add him to the list. But he could have been a tight end in the NFL.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly.

[James Marsden]

By the way, I saw your recent post about the Lions. I couldn't believe that. But very, very elegant and graceful acceptance.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, oh, oh, thank you. I gotta say, it did go from one of the true top five highlights of my best friend and I. We've been friends since we were 11. To be on that field, to meet Dan the coach and hug. We were just peaked. We were like at a 12. And then to sit down and for the air to come out of that balloon in the manner that it did, and then to leave completely heartbroken. I mean, it was the full range of human emotions, but the human condition, too. Oh, yes, absolutely. Okay. So you and I know each other a little bit. And it'd be fun for us to go through our memory because I have the very most specific memory of meeting you. And I can't imagine you would have the same memory simply because there was a big time sim moment just preceded us meeting for the very first time. And I don't think I've ever told you this. Kristen and I were going out to a restaurant on La Cienega, which we almost never do, and we're driving from the east side. And I had just recently lost some role to you, which has happened to me several times.

[James Marsden]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. I've been up for a few different things that you got, and I think rightly so, you got them. But it had just happened, and I said, I gotta meet this guy. This guy must be one of the most charismatic folks there is.

[James Marsden]

I hope this story goes well.

[Dax Shepard]

I am saying this on the ride to this restaurant we've never been to. We pull up and get out to valet, and you're standing there waiting for your car, and you're immediately like, hi, guys. I'm James. Came over, introduce yourself. You are insanely nice.

[James Marsden]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Chris and I were just looking at each other like, this is impossible. I was just saying, this guy must just be electric. We meet you. You're everything I thought you could Be. And then we walked in. I was like, oh, my God. Yes, it's exactly what I thought. So that's the first time I remember meeting you.

[James Marsden]

Well, you're right. I don't remember it. No. I think people say the same thing about you. I like hearing about those people in this business that are like, you know what? I can't think of one bad thing to say about that guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, lovely. And then since then, though, you and I bump into each other at Formula one kind of frequently.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'd say of any other actor. You're the person I've seen most at races.

[James Marsden]

I obviously love the sport. I came into it. I was dating this wonderful woman who was English, you know, Ron Dennis, who used to be the head guy at McLaren when Senna was raising.

[Dax Shepard]

I did not know that.

[James Marsden]

Okay, so Ron Dennis was like her godfather. So she was raised in F1. And so she kind of turned me onto the sport. This was back in 2007, 2015. Pre. The Netflix Drive to survive. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

That's how I got into it. And it's a bit of shame I have.

[James Marsden]

Well, no, you shouldn't have. Shame.

[Dax Shepard]

When I saw it on tv, I was like, this is the stupidest racing I've ever seen. There's no passing. Why does anyone watch this?

[James Marsden]

Well, I had the same questions. I was like, so whoever's got the fastest car wins. If you put this guy in this car, it's a procession at Monaco, because no one can pass. I also worked for this watch company for a while, iwc, and they were very kind and gracious to invite me some of the races. And so I got to be friends with Lewis. This is before Lewis became Louis.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[James Marsden]

I mean, he was Lewis, but he wasn't stratospheric, so we got to be pals. He would invite me to a couple of races. I remember we went to Barcelona. I'm kind of the only person there. If I'm calling myself a celebrity or whatever, I feel weird saying that.

[Monica Padman]

Your own person.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I started to get into it. Then you get immersed in it, and then you start to see all the nuance of the race. And, like, okay, now I get there's.

[Dax Shepard]

A ton of strategy that's not necessarily visible.

[James Marsden]

It's kind of like how I viewed soccer for a long time, and I kind of admittedly still do, which is I grew up with American football, basketball, and I watch Europeans play football, and it's soccer. And I know there's strategy. I know these are really gifted athletes.

[Dax Shepard]

But it does look like chaos and.

[James Marsden]

It may look like luck. It's such a low scoring game.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

That a ball goes off somebody's heel and it goes in the goal and they win the game. Forget who had the momentum for the whole game. But the more I learn about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Sport, this isn't suspicious that the same guys get lucky off their heel all the time, right?

[Monica Padman]

No, I think that's all sports if you don't know it.

[James Marsden]

Exactly my point. The more familiar you are with it. I think that was with F1. Okay. Now I get what's going on. Managing tires and your teammate and your pitting and your strategy of one stop versus two stops. But there is a margin for things that you just don't think are going to happen.

[Dax Shepard]

So if you started going, then you've gone to what, 20 races?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, something like that. I got to say, in the last couple of years, I haven't been to many.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's what you and I agreed upon the last time we saw each other, which is I really loved the opportunity to go. It's such a special experience. But in truth, I'm such a die hard fan. I need to be at home where I can really concentrate on the radio communication and what the announcers are saying. And I miss a lot of the tiny details when I'm there in person.

[James Marsden]

I love that the sport is getting highlighted. But what I was saying is like now it's become. I remember the first year in Miami, it felt like I was at the Met Ball.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

Felt like it was like CNB scene. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You were the 25th most famous person there. I was the 25th.

[Monica Padman]

Were you resentful?

[James Marsden]

Let's get to the real reason why we don't like it now.

[Dax Shepard]

Right?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You're like I was day one.

[Dax Shepard]

You're from Oklahoma. We interview people from all over the country. On Fridays we have a show which is just listeners and certainly the fewest number of callers we've received is from Oklahoma or Alaska. Maybe you don't meet a lot of folks from Oklahoma and I have to imagine have people not found that charming in this town. Because I know people have found it charming that I'm from kind of a hick area and do hick things. People are charmed by that in Hollywood.

[James Marsden]

They are.

[Dax Shepard]

Has that been your experience being from Oklahoma?

[James Marsden]

It has been, but it feels like to me, I've only met Oklahomans in la. Oh, really?

[Dax Shepard]

Really.

[James Marsden]

So maybe we have a way of finding each other. I the place I'm so happy I Grew up there. But you either stay or you go somewhere else. I guess that's any place, now that I think about it. Wow, what a profound statement.

[Monica Padman]

It was pretty poignant. I know what you mean.

[Dax Shepard]

Explain it to me, guys.

[James Marsden]

Maybe there's something in there for like, oh, you can go.

[Monica Padman]

One thing you might say something.

[James Marsden]

I think so.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, one thing you might be saying that you're not articulating is that there are many states where you may move around within the state. Oklahoma, maybe you either stay where you were born or you get the out of the state.

[James Marsden]

You're right. It's not what I meant. Nice that you tried to sort of soften that a little bit, but it's not. It's like you either stay there, post up. I'm like, I ain't leaving.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Or you're married to your high school. Sweet.

[James Marsden]

Yes. And now I'm careful with that because I don't want to disparage him, say anything negative about Oklahoma, but it does feel like that to me. I'm trying to figure out why I've run into so many Oklahomans.

[Dax Shepard]

I run into Detroiters, but we kind of like Detroit shit. I'll be at the Kings Red Wings game. There was a Coney island for a while in Sunset that Mike Bender owned. I go in there, and sure enough, every guy from Detroit is in there, there. So maybe there's some shit you guys are all drawn to that you. You're not even aware of.

[James Marsden]

And going into a new big city, I don't know. It feels like you find each other somehow, because you do feel like an outsider. Culture shifts. Massive but exciting. I guess the conversation is, where are you from? Oklahoma. Oh, you know what? Gene Triplehorn is from Oklahoma. All of a sudden, somehow, you're chatting with her.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, growing up there, your mother was a nutritionist and your father was a food safety person.

[James Marsden]

And that's basically how I describe it, as well.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay, great.

[James Marsden]

I lost much smarter than me. He's a microbiologist.

[Monica Padman]

Whoa.

[James Marsden]

Deals in food safety. Anytime you hear about salmonella or E. Coli breaking out in food, he's usually in the news.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no shit.

[Monica Padman]

One of the guys kind of munch housing.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's what I was going to ask. So with a mother that's a nutritionist and a father who's a food safety expert, was food a topic? Was it being talked about a lot?

[James Marsden]

No, that was their work. They left it at the office.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[James Marsden]

And came home and ate a bowl full of Fruity Pebbles.

[Dax Shepard]

Didn't think Twice.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, Hypocritical.

[James Marsden]

That's not really true. I mean we didn't really have the best best but Oklahoma food with chicken fried steak, gravy and mashed potatoes. Really good stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not what you would think. A nutritionist, right?

[James Marsden]

No. Especially now having lived in LA for 30 years.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's a religion here. We're a godless city and our religion is worried about our bodies. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Could be worse.

[James Marsden]

Could be worse. It's a good thing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I was wondering, was there a issue of the day in the 80s when your dad was doing this that now seems kind of cute, or rather is something today kind of cute? Compared to what? Do you even remember the things he was tackling?

[James Marsden]

No, because it started he was working at a meat packing facility and he was sort of working in tandem with the fda. I just didn't know what any of it meant. And frankly when I was young, I didn't really care. I had nothing against my dad. He's exceptional at what he does. He was a professor at Kansas State University teaching about microbiology. And that's cool to talk about, but I didn't really know, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

And there's no movies when we were kids where the stud who was slain was a food safety. Yeah. That hadn't come around.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, yeah, he was.

[Dax Shepard]

Before time. Okay, so dad very, very smart. Clearly. And he was a professor. Now you go to Oklahoma State and you're going to do broadcast journalism. You're there for a year and a half and you bail. Were they like, what are you doing? Was that a hard thing for you to announce?

[James Marsden]

I didn't take anyone by surprise because I had been talking about wanting to move to LA to pursue an acting career.

[Dax Shepard]

From what age?

[James Marsden]

16.

[Dax Shepard]

You had started acting in high school?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I was like junior high. 14, 15. And I was taking those classes, you know, you select your elect and I was like, well, what's going to be the easiest GPA booster here? Drama choir. I got into choir, didn't know I could sing and I just sort of later discovered that I could fake it. But then I started getting on stage and started enjoying it. And then I went to Hawaii with my father on a little family vacation and met Candace Cameron from Full House. Yeah, that whole family.

[Monica Padman]

Kurt Cameron.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. And they were very nice. We hung out the whole trip, kept in touch.

[Dax Shepard]

Was there romantic spark?

[James Marsden]

No, I was 15, she was 13.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not saying the problem.

[Monica Padman]

Statutory about that.

[James Marsden]

No, no. But it was pretty innocent. I guess it was just fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Now here's some fun overlap I didn't expect. So my first agent was the mom.

[James Marsden]

No way.

[Dax Shepard]

Barbara Cameron.

[James Marsden]

That's right. She was an agent.

[Dax Shepard]

She was for commercials.

[James Marsden]

Harry Gold or something like that.

[Dax Shepard]

She started her own thing, Barbara Cameron Agency.

[James Marsden]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

So you met them. So then it kind of became. Oh, that's real.

[James Marsden]

Well, this is something I kind of wanted to do anyway because I was a big movie buff, tv, big SNL fan.

[Dax Shepard]

You said you used to memor prior stand up and all these different standup routines.

[James Marsden]

Prior Eddie Murphy. I would go to school and that's how I would get attention. I was never really the hot guy. No, no, no, no, no. It's really true. It's such a weird thing when you hear people go, I was such a weirdo. That's so gawky. But it's kind of true. I was just a kind of odd dude who didn't really have a lot of friends.

[Dax Shepard]

I saw the picture you showed on Colbert of you in high school and you're a fucking babe. Your shirt's undone. I don't know what guy had the confidence in his high school photo to wear a collared shirt. That's buttons. Your physique is nice.

[James Marsden]

I think this was probably on my way to la. I'm not sure that was a high school day.

[Dax Shepard]

First of all, you were objectively very cute. I saw the picture. So I'm not going to stand for this. But what I will say because I came from a redneck area is the thing that was prized at my school wasn't necessarily cute. If you were in drama, you were dead.

[James Marsden]

I was at a big high school and they actually did have a pretty decent performing arts.

[Monica Padman]

You chose it, so obviously.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I wasn't going to set myself up for a pummeling in the parking lot, but it wasn't that bad. Where I was from. You're not the captain of the football team. But by the time senior year came around, some of the football players were getting into drama, like doing musicals.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're one year older than me. I like pointing out, which is crazy because I could imagine that being the case six years after me.

[James Marsden]

Then that means you're five. Zero is going to be.

[Dax Shepard]

It was two weeks ago.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[James Marsden]

Happy birthday, my friend.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you. Thank you.

[James Marsden]

What did you do?

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't do anything. I cared for my child who was dying of norovirus in the city. And I was debating whether one takes one to the hospital there or just waits it out. I waited it out, but that's fine. We Did a fact check. That was really fun. I had had it the day before and it was kind of a birthday miracle. I woke up feeling okay.

[James Marsden]

So is that just a delay of the celebration?

[Dax Shepard]

No, I'm not built for that.

[James Marsden]

I'm usually not either.

[Dax Shepard]

It's rare you meet someone that understands what I'm saying. I'm so afraid everyone will have a bad time and I'll just worry about it for weeks leading up to it and then I'll go, why am I doing this to myself?

[James Marsden]

Well, if you're anything like me, it's like I'm now by having this party for myself, seeing every one of my friends eyes roll back into their head like, oh, my God, this is a thing I have to go to. Like, what do we get him? Do you have to bring a gift? We'll go for an hour. And who would leave? And so all of these scenarios play in your head and you're like, you know what?

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry.

[James Marsden]

Actually, I'm sorry I invited you. And I've actually done that my whole life. Never been a big birthday celebrator. Because you're kind of one or the other.

[Dax Shepard]

You are now. My wife and I don't judge her. Imani. To some extent, they really love their birthdays and they want a big party.

[Monica Padman]

Less and less older, I guess.

[James Marsden]

But there's nothing wrong with.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[James Marsden]

I wish I was more like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Me too. I think we are defective.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, it's more pretentious almost to do that.

[Dax Shepard]

It almost sounds faux, humble or something.

[James Marsden]

Exactly. Than to actually just say, fuck it, I'm having a party. What's wrong with that?

[Monica Padman]

Also, then it can get complicated because people do want to celebrate you. So then they're like, well, then let's just do a dinner, just us. You're still putting people out when you don't have a problem letting you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[James Marsden]

Well, this was 50.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you do something?

[James Marsden]

I did what you do.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm proud of you.

[James Marsden]

It was against my will. Friends who are like, you are doing this this year I rented an obnoxious house in the Hollywood Hills. You probably know it. It's an old Lautner mid century house with like some mint ceilings.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the famous guy who goes to all the Lakers.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, we said James.

[Dax Shepard]

That's where we went to our Spotify party.

[James Marsden]

An incredible house, incredible place.

[Dax Shepard]

You're not allowed to drink red wine there.

[James Marsden]

Not in the grounds anywhere.

[Dax Shepard]

It's forbidden. The two caveats we heard is, he said, there's no red wine on the property and I have to be invited to the party, it doesn't mean I'll go. Was that the case?

[James Marsden]

Exactly the same.

[Dax Shepard]

I love it.

[James Marsden]

There's no world where you're not invited to this thing. In fact, I'd like for you to be there before everyone arrives, during and after everyone leaves.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a Hollywood, Hollywood icon. He's a real estate guy, but he always sat next to Jack Nicholson at the lakers for like 30 years. So he's like one of our mascots.

[James Marsden]

The cowboy hat, he's got the white.

[Dax Shepard]

Hair, it's like 109 pounds, wearing a leather jacket.

[Monica Padman]

Iconic.

[James Marsden]

Super cool. Anyway, he rents his place out and he's got a club inside the house and it's called Club James.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[James Marsden]

And when I was looking at these locations, I said, you gotta maybe hide the Club James thing. Oh.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't even put two and two.

[James Marsden]

Together and I didn't tell the party planner. And then when it happened, it was like they lit it up.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[James Marsden]

Put like spotlights on it. Club James. So then it became like a. Yeah, I'm doing it as a joke.

[Monica Padman]

Are you glad you had it?

[James Marsden]

I'm glad I had it. Good. And it actually made me realize, why haven't I done this before? It almost felt like a wedding.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. All the people that have been in your life all in one spot. It's lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think Poehler said it best. Maybe I'm making this up that she said this, but you get to look out and see these people are the proof of the life you've built. And it's kind of satisfying because you put yourself out there and you've made these connections and it is beautiful and. And I really wish I had had a party now.

[James Marsden]

Well, you have the excuse though, to have a belated because you put your child's health in front of your own self celebratory.

[Dax Shepard]

So it'll most be like a congratulations party and a birthday party.

[James Marsden]

Right. You tell the story about it. You can get on the microphone.

[Dax Shepard]

As many of you know, we were scheduled to do this back in January.

[James Marsden]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

But I just couldn't do it because I love my child too much.

[James Marsden]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

How affected were you you when your parents got divorced at 9, was that a big one?

[James Marsden]

I don't feel like I held or do hold still. A lot of trauma or disappointment or sadness because of that. To the degree where I'm like, should I? You talk to people who come from split families. That can be really life changing. And maybe I just haven't come to terms with it yet.

[Dax Shepard]

That's totally a great answer.

[James Marsden]

It's the most honest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And you have four siblings?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I've got two brothers a year and a half apart. Irish triplets. I'm the middle, so second child.

[Dax Shepard]

You feel like a middle. Yeah, I'm a middle.

[James Marsden]

Middle's good, right?

[Dax Shepard]

I think you kind of flow with.

[James Marsden]

Everything else that's going on.

[Dax Shepard]

You see how annoying the people older than you and younger than you can be. And you make a mental note like, oh, yeah, don't do that.

[James Marsden]

I'm going to adjust.

[Dax Shepard]

The older siblings are like the canary in the coal mine. You're watching them take these big swings and you're like, those don't work.

[James Marsden]

Well, not only that, it's the parents doing it for the first time. And so they have all of these ideas and standards that they're going to instill on their child or the child's going to fall over and scuff their elbow bow and they're gonna freak out that some strange germ is now in their body and they're gonna die. Whereas the more kids you have, the more relaxed you become, the less you care. But my father remarried, had another child, so that's my other sister. So, yeah, two sisters, two brothers. When I was growing up, my brothers, we were so close in age.

[Dax Shepard]

Were they cool guys? Did they protect you in high school?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, we were pretty close, but I think we were so close in age, there were moments where it almost felt like we were fighting each other for our own identity.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course.

[James Marsden]

Get away. These are my friends, not your friends. Go make your own friends. We were const. Fighting and shooting each other with BB guns. You know, I'm from Oklahoma.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Marsden]

It wasn't like a hostile environment. It was just boys being boys and my mother kind of going like, don't know what to do now.

[Dax Shepard]

In my school, there were groups of boys that were brothers and you were like, don't fucking even talk to the Jacksons because there's four of them and they're violent.

[James Marsden]

We weren't big enough to be formidable.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay.

[James Marsden]

But we were a little rough around the edges.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Scrappy.

[James Marsden]

Who are the Marsden's? I know sound like I'm making this up. Monica's like, I don't.

[Monica Padman]

Sounds like the best Christmas pageant ever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, he wasn't.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, that was a dirt bag who everyone was afraid of in school.

[Monica Padman]

BB guns smelled.

[James Marsden]

I kind of felt like we raised ourselves. Not saying anything about my parents. My mom was there most of the time my father was gone a lot for work, he traveled quite a bit.

[Dax Shepard]

E. Coli doesn't stay in the backyard. My father does not.

[James Marsden]

No, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

And knows no borders.

[James Marsden]

And he was one of those who had to get out and go chase the E. Coli. I remember him being on Donahue.

[Dax Shepard]

He was on Phil Donahue.

[James Marsden]

On Phil Donahue. Remember, Jack in the Box is going to love me for this.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, the big outbreak.

[James Marsden]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

It was one of the worst outbreaks. People died in Texas.

[James Marsden]

And he was on the show explaining basically what happened.

[Dax Shepard]

How did he do? Was he confident?

[James Marsden]

I didn't really watch it. Old people talking. I've got an acting career I need to pursue.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, are you a hypochondriac by chance?

[James Marsden]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God.

[Monica Padman]

Really Surprised. I would be. Well, I am, but I would be if I grew up in an environment where everyone was talking about E. Coli and chasing it down.

[James Marsden]

I guess because he knew so much about it, I was actually less scared of it all.

[Dax Shepard]

That makes total sense. He actually understood it. And he could probably tell you when and when you shouldn't be afraid. Yeah.

[James Marsden]

And he was like, you're fine. I remember. I was like, dad, what's actually in a hot dog?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God. A big question.

[James Marsden]

He goes, well, actually, an all beef hot dog is better for you or cleaner than getting, like a turkey dog. I said, what? How is that? He's like, because in a turkey dog, they roll in cartilage. I don't know if they still do. Okay, okay. So I felt like I had sort of the inside line.

[Dax Shepard]

You seem to have an inordinate fear of getting sued by.

[James Marsden]

I know. Hypochondriac is fear of getting sick. What's the fear of getting sued? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Lawsuit.

[James Marsden]

What phobia is that?

[Monica Padman]

Silent digits.

[James Marsden]

Nothing against Jack in the Box. Nothing against Oscar Meyer.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, the. You didn't even name Oscar Miners. Just in general turkey dogs. I hope the Turkey dog coalition doesn't write me a letter, come after me. I think we can say most hot dogs. Yeah. Are just cram packed full of everything they couldn't sell. In another version. My grandpa used to tell me he's like, hot dogs out of Michigan. He told me Michigan had really high hot dog standards and not every state did. Now, that probably doesn't hold up the.

[James Marsden]

Michigan hot dog standards.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly. Which were really high according to him.

[James Marsden]

Why would that be? Why so specific? Michigan.

[Dax Shepard]

I know they have their own big.

[James Marsden]

German colonization there or something. Nothing wrong with the Germans.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's plenty wrong with the Germans.

[James Marsden]

But we Love them.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you bounce out of school and you come to LA in 93. You land pretty quickly some employment. This boggles me because it's just years for me trying to figure out how does one get on this television set. But you were on the nanny really quick.

[James Marsden]

I got pretty lucky when I announced that I was going to move to LA and try to pursue this because through that family I met a few people who were in the business through Cameron.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

And my father said, I think you're good at this. My mother said the same thing. Give it a shot. You're not going to be going out there without knowing anyone. And my father said, I went to high school with someone who moved to la. Now he's a very successful casting director. Oh, I wonder if he'll set you up with a proper manager or agent. And he called the guy and I had some really nice head shots done in Oklahoma. The guy was like, well, we'll get some new ones when he gets out here. But decent looking kid.

[Dax Shepard]

We're going to have him button up. Just one more button on that button.

[James Marsden]

Make him lose the studious eyeglasses.

[Monica Padman]

Character shots.

[James Marsden]

Remember, remember that look like holding a gun. Look at me. Bowling. For people that don't understand this right when you first moved to la, or if you're just in LA trying to pursue an acting career in the 90s or late 80s, you had to have these headshots showing you in different scenarios.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, how people wrap their head around you as all these different occupations.

[James Marsden]

I should not be pigeonholed. I can play a gangster.

[Dax Shepard]

This is me in a karate gi.

[James Marsden]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

Oh my goodness. That sounds nice.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's a good one. I'm starting to journal more.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[James Marsden]

So that person knew someone who was a successful and legitimate manager.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh God.

[James Marsden]

And the guy sent me out upon arrival, like three or four auditions a day.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, very, very lucky man.

[James Marsden]

Doesn't happen. And also my family were like, we will financially support you for a year so you don't have to worry about pulling your own financial side of it. Which I should have had to do. But I wasn't waiting tables and doing all of that. I was focusing on making this work. Everything is aligned for success here as long as I show up.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you avoid ever having to get a shit job here when I look at your resume, it seems like you could have cobbled together enough income.

[James Marsden]

No, I didn't have to do. Wow, that's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

You're a unicorn.

[James Marsden]

But lucky.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's okay. You don't have to feel guilty. You just have to admit it, that's all.

[James Marsden]

But I also just kind of lowered my head. You know, when you're younger, too, I feel like you swing for the fences a little harder than you do when you're older because you can see how far you can fall.

[Dax Shepard]

You're delusional in the best way as well. I may be. Audition for Enchanted. And then you got it. And when I look back now in photos of myself at that time versus you, and it was to play a handsome prince who comes to New York, I'm like, of course you are not in the running for that skills. It wasn't that against you. Not a chance. When I look at pictures of me, then I'm like, I can't even believe you went on that audition. You can't play a prince with that nose and that skinny neck and all this stuff.

[James Marsden]

Well, I mean, you're constantly trying to twist yourself, commit yourself.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. That's my point is I was blessed with some delusion.

[James Marsden]

I had the same thing. I still do have the same thing, which is like, I can do that. That creates some level of confidence, even if it's completely false. Confidence. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It can be built on a house.

[James Marsden]

When I was young, it was borderline overly cocky.

[Monica Padman]

Arrogant.

[James Marsden]

Okay, I'm here. Everybody stop what you're doing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Gather round.

[James Marsden]

What's that role? I'll take it.

[Monica Padman]

But then you did.

[Dax Shepard]

What's that role?

[James Marsden]

You should give it to me. Jaws is one of my favorite movies of all time. When I read interviews with Spielberg at the time, he's taking chances and doing things you wouldn't normally do if you had more experience.

[Dax Shepard]

He was like 24. Exactly. He was so fucking young.

[James Marsden]

But he talked about that when you're young, you have a confidence that you try to hold on to if you're lucky enough to move through a career. But you're also like, oh, now I know how bad I can be or how bad the job can be or how far I can fall. And so you sort of get a little bit more careful.

[Dax Shepard]

I've gotten more scared over course of my career. I got more comfortable just being me. But on the other side, it's like, there's roles I took then, like idiocracy. If that came my way, I'd be like, I Don't think I can do that.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. And when you're younger, you're just like, I'm just going to give it my best shot.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to.

[Monica Padman]

You have to take what's there.

[James Marsden]

Absolutely. And I'm going to go to Cinema Secrets and buy a fake nose, and I'm going to stick it on myself, and I'm going to. To be Larry from the Three Stooges. But when you get older, you're like, is it okay if I don't go on this? I don't think I'm the right guy.

[Dax Shepard]

It's funny how it flips. They don't think you are. When you're young, you're like, let me show them. And then people start believing in you. You're like, hold on, don't believe in me too much.

[James Marsden]

I've done that before. I don't think they were guaranteed jobs, but I've said no to things that I think. This doesn't feel right. I don't feel like I would cast myself in this or want to see myself in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a hard thing to do.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you feel guilty. In my case, you get superstitious, like, well, that's the beginning of the end. You have to take every opportunity. And the second you stop doing that, the ride will be over because you'll have gotten too big for your britches.

[James Marsden]

That encapsulates what it's like to be an actor in this business. And obviously, we don't sit here and cry about how difficult it is, but you're like, okay, I finished that job. That's it. I'm done starting. They're not going to catch me again. They realized I'm a fraud. I'm done. I certainly felt like I was faking it. I still feel like I'm faking it, to be honest.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think you're really quite good. I think at the beginning, I felt jealous of you. There were roles I'd go out for and you would get them, and then I was jealous. So then I was hypercritical of you because I felt insecure and was pretty sure I couldn't do it on the thing that I was mad you got. But point is, I've seen you be really fantastic on numerous occasions, as have I, you.

[James Marsden]

And I think that that's just the actor's thing. You're just always going to go, what's that guy getting? Dax is doing this, and he's so good at that, and wish I could do that, and I can't. Do that Him? He's talented.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't belong here. I'm not worthy of it. This person is so. I hate them.

[James Marsden]

Did you go to an acting school or something?

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[James Marsden]

Me neither.

[Dax Shepard]

I went to the Groundlings. That's where I learned act is on.

[James Marsden]

That stage way more than I ever did. I was a mimic in high school. I would memorize standup bits and SNL sketches and do them at school and everyone thought they were kind of funny. So like, oh, maybe I'm good at this. But that was it.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't have a craft?

[James Marsden]

No, I didn't go to the fancy school in Chicago with Christopher Walken and John Lithgow, so. But you feel like, oh, shit. Well, I'm just kind of faking it. But you do learn it along the way.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly. And that's okay. One early job you had that I want to ask, what did you do on Party of Five?

[James Marsden]

I was on one episode of that show and it was the finale of, I think, the first season. But I had done a TV show called Second Noah with Daniel. Hugh Kelly did a season of the show. We were waiting to see if we were picked up. And then I was cast as this guy Griffin on Party of Five who was basically that show trying to do what my so Called life was doing at the time with Jared Leto, brooding, mysterious, good looking guy. I was like, okay, well, I guess I gotta get my Jared Leto impression down. Yeah, I gotta watch a couple do a nice blow.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you Nev's love interest?

[James Marsden]

Yes. She was watching me drink out of a water fountain and I like, walked towards her in a sort of sexy, menacing way, or I was trying to be sexy. This is not me. And I was on for that one episode. But the character was meant to be a regular, and in fact, he was a regular. But what happened was after I did that episode, my other show got picked up and I couldn't do it. So I went back to that show.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you in love with Nev like I was?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, of course. Is she Canadian?

[Dax Shepard]

She is. And a ballet dancer. Canadian ballet dance.

[James Marsden]

Canadian.

[Monica Padman]

Did they bring in a new Griffin? Because I recognize that name.

[James Marsden]

Yes. Do you remember the London brothers, Jason and Jeremy London from Oklahoma? No. So that role was recast, I think with.

[Dax Shepard]

I remember their love interest for sure.

[James Marsden]

He was on the show for a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

Several years. He should send you a little thank you card.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So knowing that you think you're faking it when you get X Men in 2000. Is this the first time you're in the big, big leagues.

[James Marsden]

Certainly the first time I felt like I was.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I mean, you're there with people who you recognize from movie posters, right? Yeah.

[James Marsden]

Excuse me.

[Dax Shepard]

Take your time.

[James Marsden]

Oh, there it is. Water, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll join you.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, Great. You can tell I have a little raspy voice. Yeah. So when X Men hit, I felt like I certainly didn't belong there. It was Halle Berry and Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen and all these legends. Hugh Jackman, no one knew who he was at the time, but then became a superstar.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you feel sandbagged by the character? You're Cyclops. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm looking around. All these people have been doing forever, and they're professionals, and some of them are legends. I already am going to feel like I'm a bad actor, and then I'm going to look at myself in my trailer right before I walk out and go, Jesus fucking Christ. They're also going to be looking at this one eye. That's not my eye.

[James Marsden]

Yes. I didn't feel like a superhero, I'll put it that way. You know, wearing boots that are extra heeled to make me taller. I was also the youngest of the group. I think I was 25 or 26. Everyone was not much older, but older. Famka and Hugh and everybody. But also there was someone else that was cast in that role before you?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, someone already didn't make the cut.

[James Marsden]

Right. So I was like, on deck.

[Dax Shepard]

That's scary, though, because they've already fired one person in that role. That would up my anxiety.

[James Marsden]

I don't think it was a firing thing. It was that person ultimately opting out of it.

[Monica Padman]

So you knew you were a second choice? Basically, yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Was that Jeremy London?

[James Marsden]

No, it was another Oklahoman. It was Nick Nolte.

[Dax Shepard]

Is Nolte in Oklahoman?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I think so.

[Monica Padman]

Isn't Brad Pitt Oak, Oklahoma?

[Dax Shepard]

No, he is Missouri.

[James Marsden]

Raised in Missouri, but I think born in Shawnee, Oklahoma.

[Monica Padman]

Don't you dare take credit.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a Missouri boy.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Shawnee, Oklahoma.

[James Marsden]

You wouldn't have said it for no reason, right?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it was in there.

[James Marsden]

Give us old Bradley, will you?

[Dax Shepard]

That's too much to give us all.

[James Marsden]

Bradley, come on.

[Dax Shepard]

We gave you the Dust Bowl. You're already famous. Michigan needs.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, so there was another actor that was cast, and he had gone through wardrobe fittings and everything. So I was like, well, shit, I didn't get that. But I'd gone back for callbacks three or four times with Famka. Okay, well, I'm as close as I can be. And then when, for whatever reason it didn't end up going forward, I was called. And then he asked if I'd be interested in going to do a role in the Superman Returns movie. First Superman movie since Christopher Reeve.

[Dax Shepard]

Our Superman.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Richard Donner, Superman. I was a big fan of that. I'll say yes to that. I'm not Superman. I don't care. We shot that in Australia for a year.

[Dax Shepard]

For a year.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, yeah. Fox Studios down there.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you like it?

[James Marsden]

I loved Australia.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I love Australia. I just don't know if I'd want to be living somewhere for a year.

[James Marsden]

My wife at the time, who was pregnant, and my son, who was four years old, we all went down there together.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, that works. Then you don't feel like you've paused.

[James Marsden]

Your existence in a really important time as well. When it was seven, eight months and the baby was getting closer and closer, she wanted to go back. She was like, I want to go back to my comfort zone. Because down there you can have different opinions on this, but they don't baby you really like they do here. Every time my wife went to see the doctor, which is like every two weeks or something, to check on the pregnancy, you would get an ultrasound. And in Australia, it was like, yeah, you good?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Marsden]

Tap on it with your fingers like, baby's doing fine, you guys. She was like, this is a little too au natural for me. But they don't treat it like you're sick. They treat it like, this is the most natural thing you'll ever do.

[Dax Shepard]

But yeah, even in England's, like, you look at their C section rates compared to ours, you look at the epidural rate. It's handled much differently. We've really medicalized.

[James Marsden]

Yes, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I just have a couple fun. Throughout your career, you've been in so much shit too. I hope you're able to look back and go, like, when you say shit.

[James Marsden]

Do you mean like. No, no, no. I want to talk about the shit stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

I think we're at an age where you can kind of look like. I had a really funny conversation with my 10 year old Delta while I was in Detroit last weekend. We're laying in bed and she said, dad, what did you do before the podcast? And I go, well, Delta, I was an actor. You've seen the movies I was in. She's like, oh, you're really doing that. It was really funny because for the last three Years I haven't acted. I just do this. And then mom is clearly an actor. That's obvious. And I think she had some understanding that maybe I with it for a minute. And I go, well, yeah. And I've been in, I don't know, 15 movies and seven series. You know, I found myself defending the fact that I had actually had a career as an actor, which is 10. Yeah, yeah. So maybe six or seven was the last time she saw me go to a set. And, you know, they don't remember when they're six or seven. I found myself going, oh, no, I've been in like 15 or 20 movies and I've been in like six series. She's like, what are they? So I'm listing my entire resume. Resume to my 10 year old. But I did have a moment where I went, yeah, you actually have a lot of things to say. I don't think you ever feel like you've succeeded in this business or at least. Certainly I don't.

[James Marsden]

No. That's woven into the DNA of this ambition.

[Dax Shepard]

But we're both at an age and we've been doing it long enough that you actually can list things you've done for a while to your 10 year old. And that felt kind of good. Oh, wow. I really did do it. I have a strong case against what she thinks. And so when I'm going through. Through your history today, I'm like, oh, yeah, that was a huge movie. And that was a huge movie. Wow, that was a huge movie. You've really racked up quite an impressive career. I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to you, but in black and white it is.

[James Marsden]

It doesn't eliminate the feeling of you might not work again, but you look back and go, oh, wow. I don't know about you, but it took me a long time to get to that feeling. Which is whatever your definition of if I've made it. I feel like this has been a success.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

And I'm so grateful for that.

[Dax Shepard]

That's hard to get to.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, yeah. But nothing like a child is going to humble you, actor.

[Dax Shepard]

Sincerely.

[James Marsden]

No, no, no, no. Mom's an actor.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. We just watched Hit and Run.

[James Marsden]

That mom's movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyways, Hairspray. I'm deeply envious that you got to spend time with John Waters. Was it a spectacular experience?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

I'm gonna break your heart here, but I didn't really get to spend much time with him. He wasn't on the set much. Adam Shankman directed it. It was More like the Broadway musical. He came to set a couple of times. He did a little cameo.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[James Marsden]

But a very good friend of mine, his girlf. When they were still engaged, but been together for a long time. Wonderful people, all very open about everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Turkey hot dogs are great.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. And we were at one of these Hollywood events of, like, GQ Men of the Year. Go ahead.

[Dax Shepard]

You got Handsomest Man Alive by GQ magazine was probably that event. Okay, so you're at Handsomest Man Alive.

[James Marsden]

Thank you. You came right into my story.

[Dax Shepard]

I see the breadcrumbs you laid out for me.

[James Marsden]

And I was with my son, actually, who was at the time, 16, 17. I'm standing next to the girl. I've known her for a couple of years. Known him longer. And she had a couple of drinks, and he had two. And she goes, I have something to admit to you. And I said, are you okay that my son is standing here like, what's going on?

[Dax Shepard]

And your future husband?

[James Marsden]

And she said, the first time I ever masturbated was to you. And the movie Hairspray. Oh, Corny Collins. What?

[Dax Shepard]

James, I can't imagine something more.

[James Marsden]

Compliment, of course. Great compliment. But of course, my mind was going into the what?

[Dax Shepard]

That character. What?

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Check me out on Party of Five if you want to beat off. I got long hair.

[Monica Padman]

The Prince. I bet a lot of people the Prince. Times was the Prince could have been worse.

[Dax Shepard]

Those Cyclops might have been freakier.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. I don't know. But I just thought that was the.

[Monica Padman]

Strangest in a cool way also.

[James Marsden]

It was kind of innocent and pure.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm so envious. That's never been told to me.

[James Marsden]

It has happened, my friend.

[Monica Padman]

To Frito.

[Dax Shepard]

I think there's a dude. I think there's a dude out there who has a fetish of watching an overweight man eat flatiron out of a tube while he sits on a toilet. So maybe, no. I learned this today. But an in chain, it didn't make the movie or the soundtrack. But you had a duet with Idina Menzel.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that intense? Like, talk about LeBron playing one on one.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. No joke. Weirdly, with music and singing, the sort of imposter syndrome wasn't as strong. When you come to LA to be an actor, you're presenting yourself as, hey, I'm here, I'm good. When people don't know you can sing, the expectations aren't there.

[Dax Shepard]

You were never declaring, I'm a singer.

[James Marsden]

No. I thrive in those situations where no one's expecting anything of you.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like when you tell them on a set, like, yeah, I could juggle on this scene. You can juggle.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think anyone's listening to the last three minutes? They're just still thinking about the masturbation thing. I've moved on because I'm still thinking about.

[Dax Shepard]

What are you thinking?

[Monica Padman]

I'm thinking about her first and foremost.

[Dax Shepard]

Love to meet her.

[Monica Padman]

Sure. But also what an interesting thing to say to someone in front of your boyfriend.

[James Marsden]

He was in earshot as well.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I thought there must have been four.

[James Marsden]

Horns that he can hear that come out of her mouth that will stop him in his tracks no matter how engaged he is with somebody else, obviously. And I saw his head on a swivel when she said it turned.

[Monica Padman]

Who wouldn't? It almost feels like a move.

[James Marsden]

I'm not sure that he knew this information. He turned and smiled. It was like, what does my girlfriend say?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly?

[James Marsden]

And she's like, I'm sorry. I had to tell him because it's just so sweet and innocent. Yeah. Oh, you're sweet and innocent. Masturbation.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

This is why. Plus, you have to see her again. And then do you think about it when you see her?

[Dax Shepard]

Did you then masturbate later that night at the thought of her?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I mean, this is. There's a lot. I have so many questions.

[Dax Shepard]

I just want to be on record applauding that she told you that. What a gift. Well.

[James Marsden]

And it wasn't steeped in shame or anything. It was like, hey, this is not a story. You're not going to believe it.

[Dax Shepard]

I never thought I'd meet the person that I first. This is funny.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. And I was like, good for you for just coming out of the gates and saying that we were friendly, but we're not best friends. But the way she would abandon just like, unapologetically saying abandon.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, big time.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, if you were director is like, the director had just told her, throw it away more.

[Monica Padman]

Let's take that back.

[Dax Shepard]

This is nothing.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Throw it away. Yeah. When you did the corny dance, I.

[Dax Shepard]

Almost forgot to tell you this.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The first time I remember, I was watching you.

[James Marsden]

It's really good. See? Throw it away.

[Monica Padman]

Don't do that for Delta. So she can know you're a great actor.

[Dax Shepard]

How dare you. Don't bring her up.

[James Marsden]

One more for fun. Do whatever you want to do.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Whatever. You were great on 30 Rock. We're going to have to move on, Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

At some point, you were great as Liz Lemon's lover. What an honor to Be able to be Tina's.

[James Marsden]

That was fun. That was another moment, though. It was like, was this a mistake? There were moments where I'm like, all right, I loved the enchanted role. I can do this. I've ripped a little bit off of movies in the past that I saw that was like, who came in here before me? Matt Damon, John Ham.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[James Marsden]

All these guys and Tina Fey and that show is a masterpiece of comedy writing.

[Dax Shepard]

She's intimidating.

[James Marsden]

The whole experience is intimidating. She's lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

Had you done Anchorman yet or no?

[James Marsden]

I don't think so.

[Dax Shepard]

Because to me, stepping onto the set of Anchorman 2 as a non established comedian that didn't come from a comedy school coupled with. They've already done it together. Y this is like a double whammy. This is one of the roles that you blew my socks off. Oh, man, you're so confident. You look awesome in that era, by the way. If you had to live in an era. You look so sexy in that first scene where we meet you. Are you in all white or something? A light blue suit blown out here?

[James Marsden]

Yeah, the blown out, blown out. Hairsprayed as well.

[Dax Shepard]

And a lot of like flicking your wrist with the watch. You completely hold your own with a handful of the gray. Greatest to ever do it. Were you. Your blue suit.

[James Marsden]

I was. Nice of you to say. All that comedy was always something that really ignited me. I never really felt comfortable being a leading man guy. I was always looking for the character roles. I wanted to be a character actor. You know, I would hear back from casting directors. Well, they don't know you're funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you feel like you were trapped in rom com jail for a second?

[James Marsden]

I was more afraid that I was getting trapped in the other guy thing where I was like, the other guy who gets cuckold. Is that it? Right. The good guy who shot she cheats on with the other guy. X Men. The Notebook.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, the Notebook. Oh, my God. I forgot.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the first time you masturbated. I think you told me.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, we'll circle back around to that.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that what you told me yesterday? No, no.

[James Marsden]

It was to Ryan, though. Let's be honest. Let's be honest.

[Dax Shepard]

That was my first time master. Yeah, yeah.

[James Marsden]

But I was becoming known as the guy. Like you cast him. Even Superman Returns. Superman has left.

[Dax Shepard]

I totally understand why you would be afraid of that.

[Monica Padman]

That's like nice guy.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, like nice guy. That fire isn' the relationship.

[Dax Shepard]

You like him enough that you feel bad he got dumped, but you don't like him so much that you're not still rooting for the girl to dump about me.

[James Marsden]

That I'm like, yep, give it to me. I got my buffoon. He doesn't win. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[James Marsden]

This is my comfort zone.

[Dax Shepard]

You're saying he doesn't get the girl? Oh, look no further.

[James Marsden]

Terrific. Hey, let's keep the expectations set low.

[Dax Shepard]

So then 27 dresses your pump, because that's an enormous hit.

[Monica Padman]

Huge.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. That was really what I felt like was my first romcom. And Fletcher, who was one of the choreographers and very good friends with Adam Shankman on Hairspray, came in one day while we were filming Hairspray and said, hey, I just got my first movie. I'm gonna direct. And I said, fantastic. What role am I playing? Making a dumb joke? And she laughed, laugh, laugh. And then the next day, she came in. She's like, you know what? You should be in this movie. And it's with Katherine Heigl. She said, well, I want to bring you in to read with her if you can. So we did a whole reading and everything, and then we made the movie.

[Dax Shepard]

It was cool, and it was an enormous hit.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. When you're making something that's gonna be a success or people are gonna talk about for a while, do you know that when you're making it? I don't ever know. When we were making the Notebook, it was like, I think everyone's really good, but this could be a schmaltzy bad. And then 27 dresses is the same. This is probably just gonna be your formula.

[Dax Shepard]

It's gonna make $38 million and go away.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

As most of them do. And then it's an enormous global hit. And then Westworld, and I think I'm a little late on the train. On Westworld, I think it had already had all the hype and the acclaim. It is still the most watched first season of an HBO show of all time.

[James Marsden]

It was just a Golia felt like something special before we even showed up on set because it was talked about like it was. It was like, this is Nolan. The budget's gonna be crazy. Anthony Hopkins, Ed Harris. This is all the markings of this is gonna be a guarantee. And the first season of the show was pretty transformative. It was a very cool thing to be a part of.

[Dax Shepard]

The only other first season I would say is as flawless is Jonah's new show, Fallout. Every episode is a fucking banger. It's almost impossible for the first season of a show to be that. That way. But Westworld that first season is just a masterpiece.

[James Marsden]

I just felt like I was along for the ride on that one.

[Dax Shepard]

You're really great in that. Did you get on with Jonah? We interviewed him and I really fell in love with him. I think he's the coolest dude.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Well, you guys chatting? There's my masturbation story.

[Monica Padman]

Oklahomian, or was he?

[Dax Shepard]

He's Chicago.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he has that vibe.

[Dax Shepard]

By way of England.

[James Marsden]

Great man. And Lisa, Joy, his wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry, I don't want to leave her up.

[James Marsden]

They co write on these and wonderful people. Intimidating. Intimidating because of his intellect.

[Dax Shepard]

But he doesn't present as.

[James Marsden]

No, he doesn't. You guys probably talked a lot of stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he rolled up in an aerial, Adam. I was like, you're the only person that's ever done this and you'll be the last.

[James Marsden]

Well, I remember going to Fontana for some karting out there with him. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Great guy. Midas touch. Brilliant writing. Always curious about what hasn't been done before those sets.

[Dax Shepard]

Where were you? That's still the most impressive world I've ever seen created.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, we were Santa Clarita.

[Monica Padman]

Santa Clarita.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

For the most part. Lake Pyu.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I've shot so much up Melody Ranch.

[James Marsden]

But that was a really special experience. It was another one of those. I didn't feel that. As surefooted as I'd had liked to because the show was so.

[Dax Shepard]

Such a high level. Yeah, everyone was perfect.

[James Marsden]

There's a scene in, I think the fifth or sixth episode. It was me, Anthony Hopkins and Ned Harris. And the scene was between them. Make no mistake, I was on the verge of dying, as I usually am on the show.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[James Marsden]

Bleeding out.

[Dax Shepard]

You probably died more on film than anyone else.

[James Marsden]

Probably. Whether it's actual death or just being dropped by or cuckold. The other one, the death of the relationship, and Ed and Anthony, they were like, can we talk about this scene a bit? Because it's a long one and it's the first time we meet. And Jonah was like, yeah, let's all get together. So the four of us got together.

[Dax Shepard]

You're like, I better get in here too.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Why the fuck am I here? I'm pretty sure that when I come to life for one second, I think I stabbed the table with a knife or something and then just go back to sleep. I'm happy to sit here and just listen to you guys. But they were talking about the scene and Jonah has this really beautiful way of answering your question without really answering It. But I think he did answer the question. But to us, it was like. Well, that was the most abstract. I think he started talking about something about the sisting chapel.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[James Marsden]

And if you look inside the robe, I'm going to mess this up. Because it's God's robe, but you see the human brain inside. And he told this really beautiful, elaborate story.

[Dax Shepard]

An allegory.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Excuse me.

[Dax Shepard]

We're right in sync. I need a drink and clear my throat at the same time.

[James Marsden]

Drink.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Let's do it. Monty, do you feel left out? You're not drinking voice for this podcast.

[James Marsden]

Do it.

[Monica Padman]

You need to blow your nose or anything?

[James Marsden]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, look at you. Thank you. So I can be a part of you.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want you to feel left out. Yeah. Take a big, long sip now.

[James Marsden]

Did you cough?

[Dax Shepard]

A little bit.

[Monica Padman]

It's the most water I've drank three weeks.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So he gives this kind of abstract allegory.

[James Marsden]

I remember walking out with Anthony Hopkins, and he turns to me and he goes, well, I still don't fucking know what the scene's about. Interesting. So that made me feel better. That's okay. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

He doesn't even get it.

[Dax Shepard]

I've never met or worked with Ed Harris, but I have a hunch, and I want to ask you. So I have worked with a single actor, which was beyond unique. Robert Duvall. It didn't really matter how he modulated. It was true every time in a way that I just have never experienced with another actor. And I've worked with great, great actors, but there's a couple folks that they just cannot sound anything but true, no matter what the adjustment they're given is. I feel that Ed Harris is that person as well, for sure. Tell me about being in scenes with him. Does he just suck you into his bubble?

[James Marsden]

Well, yeah, in a great way, but also not. Not so much. So to make you feel like you're anywhere near as captivating or as good, but you do feel like, all right.

[Dax Shepard]

I've got to pay attention.

[James Marsden]

I've got to pay attention.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Marsden]

Be really present in this. You can see him do something different every time. But the gravitas and the focus, all of it was just effortless. It was just like, he is not acting. I'm acting. Right, exactly. Exactly. I'm acting. I'm acting like a character. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I've always said that I'm making choices.

[James Marsden]

He's.

[Dax Shepard]

He's existing.

[James Marsden]

Yes. And you've been really nice to say nice things about roles that I've done. And everything. And I still get weird, like. Yeah. I don't know. Not great at taking compliments because I feel that way. And I'm not trying to discredit what I've learned or what I've achieved, but there is still that little party that's like, I'm acting and there are people, there are actors. You call them actors.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a handful. Yeah, right.

[James Marsden]

It's not a lot. No. But those few. I think that's when they say it, you have it. Yeah, yeah, that's what it looks like.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. But sorry. And not to jump ahead. We're probably maybe there now.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe. Did you feel like that in Jury Duty?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's the next.

[Monica Padman]

I know. That's what I was saying.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, we'll get right to it. So the next most spectacular thing in the world, this has got to be the greatest thing you've ever done, is jury Duty. We have to find out how you become willing to even participate in that. Because talk about a fucking high risk swing.

[James Marsden]

I hear people say that. I mean, yes, it was a risky high wire act.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's just start with the most basic thing. That you're going to go from Westworld and you're going to be on a reality show.

[James Marsden]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

In case people haven't seen it, maybe we give a premise.

[Dax Shepard]

They need to stop what they're doing and watch it. This is one of the greatest shows ever made.

[Monica Padman]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

There is one man who sincerely believes he's on a jury deciding a court case in Los Angeles. But everyone else's actors. The judge is Ike Barinholtz's father.

[James Marsden]

Yes. Who was a real defense attorney.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. He's phenomenal. He should have been an actor his whole life.

[James Marsden]

He wanted to be.

[Monica Padman]

He got a late break.

[Dax Shepard]

He's great.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then this unsuspecting guy comes to find out that the actor James Marston is also on the jury. I'm sorry, but when I hear that premise, I'm like, is anyone gonna believe this?

[James Marsden]

I thought the same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

And did your fear go where mine would have been? Which is either a, they'll know me and not believe it, but I think more likely this person won't know the actor Dax Shepard. Did you have any fear that, like, oh, this person might not even know who I am? And that's kind of part of the premise.

[James Marsden]

I felt like if that were the case, that would be like a gold mine for comedy, for me making an ass of myself trying to get him.

[Dax Shepard]

To appreciate who you are. Me and Delta yes, because that role.

[James Marsden]

Is what I'm way more comfortable playing, which is how do I make fun of. We do not in a disrespectful way.

[Dax Shepard]

Point out the vanity, the self consumed.

[James Marsden]

The celebrity of it all.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

And the subtle entitlement that just kind of gets dropped here and there. Anyway, I just thought, oh, I'd love to just play this version, the juiciest.

[Dax Shepard]

Version of yourself imaginable.

[James Marsden]

And it's, for the most part, complete fiction. But the scariest thing was, what is this show? There were no comps. Joe Schmo. It was nothing like I'd done before. But my favorite show with Curb, Larry Sanders show, you know, where the feeling is you're not sitting here looking at the script going, oh. I said. And instead of the like, it's gotta be verbatim, it's more like, here's a funny outline. Let's make it a scene. Play and play with it. Christopher Guest. They was waiting for Guffman and Best in show and Spinal Tap. And I want to do something like that where I'm in a room full of funny people who can get on that frequency where you're like, I see where you're going with this. I see where you're going with. And Anchorman 2 was watching those guys do that, the generosity. It wasn't Steve trying to steal the spotlight from Will. It was them complimenting one another, setting each other up for these jokes. And I was like, I want to do this in this sort of environment with, like, people from the Groundlings and ucb. And I don't think I was prepared for the other side of it, which was the choreography, the technical challenge of the thing. Yes, of the whole thing. But we were surrounded by really great people. It was Todd Schulman who did Borat and Lee Eisenberg and Gene Stipnitsky, the office, and David Bernad, a friend of mine. I've done a couple of things with him. He's my closest friend. And he was like, I have this, and it's so hard to cast because it has to be someone who is willing to poke fun at himself. People will know, but not like a superstar. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay. I like it.

[Dax Shepard]

Sounds like me. I like it. I like it.

[James Marsden]

I'm already comfortable.

[Dax Shepard]

Do I lose a girl at any boy?

[James Marsden]

Yeah. How many times do I get dumped in my sleep? And I came in. There were scripts, but there was no dialogue really written, because you can't. You don't know what he's gonna say. You Know you can set certain scenarios up. And I thought the scripts were so fucking funny. Brilliant writer writing. And I was howling, reading and going, oh, my God, I'm taking a shit in his hotel room bathroom. I'm trying to get him to take the blame for it.

[Dax Shepard]

Some of the swings. I can't believe you guys land. And I was on Punk.

[James Marsden]

I was thinking about you all the time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. When I was watching, I was like, I know how he feels. I've been in this situation a bunch of times. I'd argue it's the best acting you'll ever do in your life.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Thank you. That is the closest thing I ever got to like, I'm not acting. The laws of cause and effect have been turned upside down. The lines between reality and fiction are blurred.

[Dax Shepard]

There's no second take. If you go too far, you fucked up the whole thing. You're really interesting. Third element in the room at all times.

[James Marsden]

That's exactly it. And what kept it feeling so real is everything you didn't see in the show, which is everything that was cut out. Each episode's what, 25 minutes. We were there doing this with him for three weeks. It was five six hour days of just being in court.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[James Marsden]

And in those five, six hours, you find little moments to insert the bit that's in the script. Outside of that moment, you're fucking laying on the floor, taking a real nap in the deliberation room, not caring where the camera is. When you're acting in a movie, I'm always so aware you have to be. I have a great appreciation for people who are technicians and recognize, okay, where's your light? Here's my space. I can kind of play in.

[Dax Shepard]

This was like free for all.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. The camera guys are just going to follow you around. Whatever you're going to do, just be ready for everything. And they're going to capture. Capture all of it. And some poor bastard has got to edit this together.

[Dax Shepard]

That deserves the biggest.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. And I think that's where my hat goes off to those people that found the show and crafted it. They had the outlines and the scripts were like, okay, these are the moments. We can shave the other stuff off that we know is not gonna be there. But when Ronald. God bless Ronald. Like this, sweetheart.

[Dax Shepard]

Man, listen to me. There's a lot of gifts in that show. You're one of them. But you couldn't assemble a think tank and come up with a better person because he was so kind and you never felt bad for him. He's confident. Confident. He's tall. He's fucking generous.

[Monica Padman]

His spirit is so likeable.

[James Marsden]

Positive, smiling and helping people out.

[Monica Padman]

But not a victim.

[James Marsden]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

This is something you just get lucky or you don't get lucky. The heart of the show is what a good person Ronald was.

[James Marsden]

Yes, he was. And that's how they sold the show to me, which is, this isn't a prank show. We're not trying to make an ass of somebody other than me and the other jurors, but not him. This is what we were calling at the time a hero's journey. And I was like, yeah, sure. That's a pretty way of saying. Saying we're doing a prank show.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Quints. You know, Kristen's been ordering a ton from Quints.

[Monica Padman]

Quince is amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I told her I, you know, they're a sponsor, and she. She couldn't believe it. Being stylish and comfortable allows you to feel your best, making you ready to tackle anything that comes your way. That's where Quince comes in.

[Monica Padman]

I was just in the house and our friend Anna, she had borrowed a sweater from me. It's blue and it's from Quince. It's gorgeous and it fits so well. And when she was wearing it, I was like, I want it back.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

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[James Marsden]

So I kind of held the writers, the producers, everybody in check for that. We better be doing something nice here because my other concern was we're fucking with this guy for three weeks of his life. That's a long time to mess with someone human experience and to fool somebody. And you're going to forge relationships and friendships during that time and we're going to lift the curtain. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And he's like, that was fake.

[James Marsden]

That was fake.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

And I know how I would feel. I don't even like a surprise birthday party.

[Dax Shepard]

Right? Not to mention, like, I think I'm friends with James Marsden. Now you're telling me maybe we're not.

[James Marsden]

Friends or feel like a total asshole. You know, you've been bamboozled, Chomp. Yeah. So my struggles were every night I would get on the phone with the producer, what's tomorrow's stuff? We're hitting these moments and what do I not feel comfortable with? I was very firm on, like, I cannot turn the screws to this guy any more than just the situation itself. Right. Like I'm not going to make him the butt of any jokes because I just feel like that's where this show is going to work is if we're not mean to this guy.

[Dax Shepard]

And by the way, it's low hanging fruit and it's very tempting. You probably have to resist nonstop.

[James Marsden]

There's a scene in the show where I ask him to do an audition tape with me to read off camera for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Which really quick. Let that sink in. If you, if you haven't seen the show, non actor. I think he sold either solar panels or wind.

[James Marsden]

I think it was solar panels.

[Dax Shepard]

He's going to be asked to act in a scene with you for an audition. Now just imagine you, who wouldn't zero acting experience being asked to act with James Mars. What a mensch. That he's even willing to do it.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he got so into it at.

[James Marsden]

The beginning of the show. He didn't really know exactly who I was. I think he recognized me.

[Monica Padman]

He recognized me.

[Dax Shepard]

He's so kind. He recognized you and then actually did some research to help you feel good.

[James Marsden]

He couldn't do that until we were done with the first day of shooting.

[Monica Padman]

Right, right.

[James Marsden]

So we had a woman that was planted there in the check in room or whatever and this was part of the script. And Casey doesn't recognize me. This woman's gonna come over and ask for a photo. So that he goes, why are you getting your photo taken? And then she took a photo and he still didn't say anything. He was just kind of thinking. And so then I get to play with it and be like, oh boy, this guy socks over there. And I thought they said Sonic on it. I'm in this movie Sonic. And you know, so I'm like doing that whole bit. And then he just completely innocently goes, oh, oh yeah, you were inside. I heard that was not a good movie. And I was like, don't fuck this up now because this is perfect. This is perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

This is what you were after.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. He felt bad about that later, which made me feel bad because of already knowing what we're doing to this guy. But it was such a mensch. It's such a sport when you tell somebody the premise of the show. You're like, come on, he had to have known. What about the cameras? There's cameras everywhere. Well, he was told that we were making a documentary about the court system is serving jury duty. He just thought it was going to be boring and then just happens to be this actor. Guy who's also stuck on it, and he's so self absorbed, he's going to stay and allow himself to be on camera is because he thinks this documentary might qualify for an Emmy or something. You know, some dumb reason, like, all right, well, I'll be on camera because normally I've got a quote, but yeah, I was worried about doing something traumatizing to him for the rest of his life. This hero's journey. You know, if you're celebrating someone's good character or their humanity, this is a pretty unconventional way of doing it. Right. You're punching somebody in the face, and.

[Dax Shepard]

When they don't punch you back, you go, you are a good person.

[James Marsden]

Exactly. There were conversations about, he seems to be a good sport, he seems to be handling it good, and he talks to people afterwards and seems to be doing good. And I'm like, okay, we'll just keep an eye on him because this doesn't feel good to me. I love playing with all the comedy, everything, but I'm just worried that this guy's going to have a breakdown after this. So every day was like, all right, let's be nice to this guy. First of all, in that audition scene, I could feel that the creative minds behind the show were kind of like, get him to act bad. But they weren't saying it. There's just a feeling.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's right there.

[James Marsden]

It's right there.

[Dax Shepard]

Like you said, they've been writing comedy forever, and it's very obvious this is the move.

[James Marsden]

And I was like, I just can't do that to this guy. One, he's a great guy, that I should be more like, yeah, totally, you know? And two, you punch him below the belt. It's not level playing field here. Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

It actually was way better than he was.

[James Marsden]

Good. Yeah, it was great.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

And I got to play with him a little bit. And, like, it's kind of all about what I'm doing in this. And then once we start, I'm like, hey, can. Can you adjust that just a little bit? Yeah, but I would always try to do it in a real way.

[Monica Padman]

You handled it so well.

[James Marsden]

When you see in your mind this project that you're working on, the best version of it, you're like, this is what we're going for. I don't know if we're going to get there, but if I see that and I just kind of follow that, then I'm jumping out of bed in the morning to go to that fucking courtroom in downtown LA somewhere. But I also kind of Felt like. Well, she. I've really never been trained in improv. Groundling stuff. I feel like I can do it because I've been such a fan of that for so long.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

But I don't know if I can. We had a boy. I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this, but I guess maybe there's a statute of limitations on what I can say. I'll check after.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[James Marsden]

But we had a test run. We do the first day, and that's it. And the judge comes out and is like, we settled. Everyone go home. Just to kind of see. Yeah. To burn it as a mulligan, a rehearsal. See if we can get to his first day. And the guy looked like he was having a nervous breakdown halfway through the day.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[James Marsden]

Sweating.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[James Marsden]

Because we did this bit where as he walks from the parking lot, after a little on the fly interview, he witnesses a woman pulling a stroller out of her car, and she accidentally smashes the window of the car next to her. Well, it's all been planned, obviously. And that's the judge's car. And he witnesses it, and sweet guy comes over and like, I'm so sorry. Are you okay? And she's like, yeah, I'm just frazzled. And I don't know what happened here. And he didn't know what to make of it because here he is, like, now starting his first day on this documentary about jury duty, and something really strange is happening. Then we get into the courtroom. Judge leaves for a while, comes back with, like, a bandage around his hand. Someone, Ike Baron Olse's father with a Chicago accident broke into my car. Did anyone witness what happened to my car? Someone stole my Eagles CDs.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[James Marsden]

It was a hilarious bit. But he was himself and, like, beat red. It was a lot sweating. He turned to me and he just looked like he was really, really panicking. And he said, what do I do? I said, what do you mean? He was like, I saw it happen. And the woman looked really nice, but I didn't know she would steal a CD.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[James Marsden]

@ that point in my head, I was like, okay, well, this is just a rehearsal, and nothing's worth someone actually having a genuine coronary. Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

And I just went, just. Maybe you'll tell the bailiff. I wasn't supposed to do that. I was supposed to continue on with what our narrative was.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

I was like, no.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I, of course, was in that situation several times myself.

[James Marsden]

Yeah. Tell me, man. Did you ever get into moments where you're like, I just don't think I can do this to somebody. You weren't deliberately mean by the way.

[Dax Shepard]

Same thing. Often the premise was. And as the show went on and I had more leverage, I was less and less willing. I can give you a great example. It was one of the last episodes we shot. In fact, it was one of the only ones we ever shot after it aired, because so many people were watching it, they were naturally afraid I couldn't do it anymore. So I had a wig and a mustache and all this stuff. And it was a NFL celebrity golf tournament. And I got there on the day and I had my wig on, and I go, okay, so what's the bit? And I'm like, okay, you're gonna sit down with this guy. He just cheated on his wife. Wife. You're going to bring that up? Because they have been told you have to sit down for interviews at certain holes as part of this charity event. They were just all very mean. It was like airing people's dirty laundry. And I go, I'm not going to do it. It was too late for them. I had enough leverage at that point. And they go, what the are we going to do? And I go, give me 20 minutes and I'll think of some. I convinced Jerome Bettis to tackle me on camera. Then, yeah, the bus. And pretended my back was broken. And he believed it and panicked. So that was funny. Garcia. They wanted me to talk about him being G, which was a rumor, right? And I'm like, I'm not doing that. So I told him, Mr. Garcia, you're listed as 6, 2, 2, 20. A lot of young people in America here trying to grow up and be you. But we just shook hands, and I'm five nine, and I'm taller than you. So how do you explain that? Why are you lying? And it becomes this whole thing. We're standing back to back four guys defending his height, which is preposterous. I'm claiming I'm 5 9. And then another guy who I had heard had one of the bigger egos in the League. League. Every 40 seconds in the interview, I kept touching my ear like I had an earpiece in. I'm so sorry. We're going to. Who are we going to? And I would list players that were much lower status than him, and I kept cutting away, and then he kept giving up on the interview, and I kept getting them back. I'm so, so sorry. That wasn't my choice. And I just do this over and over again. So, you know, that's what I came up with. But I'm not bringing out their dirty laundry or allegations that they're gay or all this other stuff. That, again, is just low hanging.

[James Marsden]

Right. And I'm sure that all of those guys are, afterwards were like, actually, you know what?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. When Jerome Bettis finds out my back is not broken, he's delighted. He's going to get sued by some Canadian reporter in a wig.

[Monica Padman]

And it's celebrities. That's the inverse of what you're doing.

[Dax Shepard]

The other thing I was going to add is I was also far more desperate. You're already at a point where you've had a big career and you're financially fine. That was my first time on tv, so I was also willing. My moral standard was probably much lower than it would be to.

[James Marsden]

I remember having this conversation with one of the producers who had also worked on Borat, you know, all of Sasha's stuff. And he was like, if you're a really good guy, this might not be for you. Oh, right, right, right. And he didn't say that directly at me, but it was kind of like, this is fucking hard. How do you navigate getting the comedy people actually want to see?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

It's at the expense of somebody. The nature of the show is that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's why this show was so awesome. Is Ronald just shined. It made you love him. I was happy for him that he got to dis what a wonderful, beautiful human being is like, yeah. I think everyone who saw is like, I would love to be friends with that guy. That's a good person.

[James Marsden]

And that's what actually happened was we all became actual friends during it because he was such a good guy and fun to be around. There were moments we were like, shit, I don't know if I can do this bit to him today because he's going to kind of go like, well, that's an asshole thing for you to do here. When we were just chatting about all of our favorite movies and favorite childhood memories, and we would have real conversations in between the bits that we had.

[Dax Shepard]

To hit that day, of course.

[James Marsden]

And then you sort of draw him.

[Dax Shepard]

In and he draws you in.

[James Marsden]

You do all the awful things, which is gain someone's trust and then take a giant shit on it, literally.

[Monica Padman]

But did you talk to him after? And were you like, hey, man, how are you?

[James Marsden]

I mean, I was the most nervous when Ike's father turned to him and said, this is all fake. And for a split second, I saw his eyes kind of go dark. And scared for like a millisecond, trying to compute, probably. Yeah, exactly. And I hated that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

And I already knew what I was gonna do and we all were gonna do was storm the box where he was sitting and just let him know. Yes, this is probably a lot to comprehend and to take in and process right now. But if you're wondering if all of this was real, this was all real and we adore you and love you. The last thing I wanna do is like, okay, that was fun. Cool. See you around. Like, give me your number. Let's hang out. Yeah, let's have a rap party. I don't even know if we were going to do that at first. Like, let's have a fucking party with this guy. He's perfect. Reassure him that, yes, we took you along for a ride, but you are a shining star in this big time. And here's what the show's about. And it's about you, my friend. And everything about you that people are going to love about you, we love about you. And so it was a love fest after that because I really was like, is it going to be an insult when we hold up a check for 150 whatever he got paid. Like that lets us off the hook somehow.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

You know what I mean?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[James Marsden]

Can the two coexist? Can we find really, really funny moments and have this be a comedy and also be kind?

[Dax Shepard]

Can we be celebrating this dude while we're.

[James Marsden]

Exactly. In an organic way?

[Dax Shepard]

It was the tightrope of all tightropes and it really landed and we would have hated it. I did not like the second Borat. I was like, these are nice people who tried, trusted him and offered to bring him in to the house. And now we're. Yeah, I don't like it.

[James Marsden]

He's brilliant at what he does. But if he's going into an antique shop and breaking everything in the anti shop, I'm sure most people out there find that hilarious. And I was like, I know, but it's funny how when it's somebody you feel like deserves it or something, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Justice.

[James Marsden]

I'm more okay with it. But this guy was just so pure.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, okay, so paradise. I took a huge gamble last night and started watching the screen that were sent to me with my whole family. The aforementioned 10 year old and her older sister who's 11. And then, Kristen, you're the president. This is your second time being a president. You were JFK?

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you been a president a third time?

[James Marsden]

No, just two.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. It's a bad signal. Of your aging, by the way. Right, right. You know, when you get hired to be the president, you're like, okay, guys, I'm not 30 anymore. Yes.

[James Marsden]

I'm not going to prom anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Sterling K. Brown is your Secret Service. And Kristen, within about eight minutes, started going, my God, this chemistry is white hot. I really want him to kiss the chemistry. So good. So first out of the gates was. The chemistry between you guys is incredible. He's so awesome.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, he's something else.

[Dax Shepard]

What a beast of an actor.

[James Marsden]

Well, he's one of those. Ed Harris. Yeah, he's one of those, like, you were born to do this. And I found my favorite male physique.

[Monica Padman]

Oh. Circles the guy.

[Dax Shepard]

We meet him with his shirt off. Thank God you don't make me wait.

[James Marsden]

We like to hook him earlier.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So right out of the gates, you're kind of a rogue president. You're young, you're rich before you even got there. You kind of want to coast through your next four years and crazy series of events happens. We're now flashing back for a lot of it, but the true premise, premise of the show doesn't even hit us to the end. And my kids don't do well with blood. And there is some blood. And I'm reassuring them, I think this will be the only blood. And then we're going to investigate this. For most of this show, which they were able to get through, and then they were so hooked that we had to stay up till midnight last night going on. Dan Fogelman wrote it. Who did? This is us. He did. Crazy, stupid love. Incredible writer. The premise of this is so radical. How can you explain the premise in a way that you're allowed to do?

[James Marsden]

That's tough. I've been actually coached on this.

[Monica Padman]

That makes sense.

[James Marsden]

I assumed because you have to know that Dan Fogelman, one of his signatures is twists and turns. It's really an exploration of power dynamics, relationships, choices you make in life and loyalties. Let's speak like Nolan now and just speak really vaguely about the brain in the robe on the Sistine Chapel and can say this.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in a community that appears to be designed. It made me think of. I know there's some communities, like Gulf Shores, Alabama, where it's like the whole thing was constructed to have its own convenience store in its own neighborhoods.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, a little Pleasantville.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a great one. It's very Truman Show. It's very Pleasantville. And it just has the greatest turn. At the end of the pilot, you.

[James Marsden]

See the trailers and it's like, this is a political thriller, and it's really not about politics.

[Dax Shepard]

The only thing I didn't like about it was I'm watching how much you drew drinking, smoke, and I'm like, we don't have this physique at 50 if we're drinking and smoking that hard. I mean, we do see you working out, so I guess you're pushing through. Like, oh, Speaking of which, Mr. Dags. Mr. Dags.

[James Marsden]

Oh, that's pretty.

[Dax Shepard]

Damn. Yours is pretty good.

[James Marsden]

Pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

I heard you doing it, and I was like, this guy's got the rhythm. He understands the essence. He knows about the spirit. He understands really good.

[James Marsden]

It's a tough one to do because the hardest impression is the one that everybody feels like they can do a little bit of Arnold and walk in. But that one's just like, how do you get the little extra bits in there? I did this movie with Woody Harrelson, and he had just done True Detective with him, so he came to set with all these Matthew Isms, and I just soaked it all up and like, no, he didn't say that. Yes, he did, brother. You wouldn't believe it. He wouldn't believe. He said that they're best pals.

[Dax Shepard]

Say what you said to Woody, though.

[James Marsden]

What did I say to Woody?

[Dax Shepard]

Because I love that you spelled it out there.

[James Marsden]

Oh, yeah. He said, why don't we head on over to my AI IR stream. Make it M argerito. Blow your horns off. Blow your horns off.

[Dax Shepard]

Yours is really solid. I think yours is the only one that I've heard that I think is really spot on.

[James Marsden]

I just felt like everybody did it. Matt Damon's pretty great.

[Monica Padman]

He does.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, he does one, but that's sort of making the viral rounds three years later or something. Like, oh, you did great, Makani. And three or four months ago, I think Matthew posted it on his Instagram.

[Monica Padman]

Like, oh, that's kind of cool.

[James Marsden]

I know. He does it like Martian Marshall's got. He's got to go check it out and do the ashes and the whole thing. Like, that's pretty cool. All right, I'll take it.

[Dax Shepard]

I know I've struggled with the fact that I've kind of become buddies with him, and I'm like, am I supposed to hang this up or am I going to keep pushing? I've decided to keep pushing. I've even sent him messages as him.

[James Marsden]

He's got a great sense of humor about it. He leans into it.

[Monica Padman]

It's a green light.

[James Marsden]

But, yeah, he's another one that's in shape.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what made me think of it. Because my first conversation with him is I said, listen, I'm over obsessed with drinking because I'm an ex addict and I've got a handful of people where I'm like, did they slide through? Are they the one unicorn? I go, I know the stories of you drinking and I know you're up at 5 working out. Do you just have some kind of constitution? He goes, yeah, I guess I got a constitution. Some of my favorite workouts, I wake up hungover, not push through. And then, you know, you feel that break and you're on the other side of it. Those are some of my favorite workouts because at night, when I'm going to go for it, I. I look in the mirror and I say, we're going to go hard tonight, but you're going to wake up tomorrow morning, you're going to hit that gym, you're going to do eight miles. And that's how it's going to be. He makes a deal with himself and I'm like, yeah, you just have a fucking constitution. I didn't have it. No, I slept till 2.

[James Marsden]

Some people can just do that.

[Dax Shepard]

I think he's totally normal now, but he used to go hard and he'd show up for everything and he looked fucking great. So you're right, it could be done. This president could be McConaughey.

[James Marsden]

I didn't think about this, that maybe he's got the. Waking up at 5am, hit the old treadmill, get on, get on the booty burner, burn off these lbs, and then creeping around the wayside.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't really describe the show other than to say it's fantastic. When you pulled up, we were watching it midday. It's the holiday, so they're not at school. I can promise you we'll have binged this entire thing within 48 hours. It's a banger of a show.

[James Marsden]

That's awesome. I appreciate that. And I've had this tickle in my throat for three weeks. A long time. Annoying because my voice is not fully there.

[Monica Padman]

It still sounds really nice. Why?

[Dax Shepard]

And I just made you do McConaughey.

[James Marsden]

You can kind of use the voice for that one.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have a word that gets you into it? Because mine is. First time I talked to him, he came up to maybe this Bahamas. Mr. Dags, Mr. Dykes, Mr. Dax. Yeah.

[James Marsden]

It's the S's, isn't it? Yeah, the old Texas whistle.

[Monica Padman]

Really good.

[Dax Shepard]

But back to Nolan. It has a lot of parallels with fallout. A lot of these shows are starting to tackle and submit subversive ways. Income inequality. Everyone's got the sense it's like, wait, some people are living one way in this country and the rest are living dramatically different. And I think art's starting to tackle that in a not so obvious way, but in other ways.

[James Marsden]

That's the answer I wish I had in my mouth when you asked me what the show's. Because that's really it. It's class. It's power dynamics. It's giving everybody a snapshot of like what if? And is this happening now? Again you watch the trailer and like, okay, this looks like a murder mystery. I'm laying there dead.

[Dax Shepard]

The murder's a Myst lead. It's an appetizer.

[James Marsden]

It's the backdrop. So it's a tough one to talk about for sure. Without spoiling it, how have we done Monica?

[Dax Shepard]

Do you want to watch it? Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Very badly.

[James Marsden]

Or she's like, I don't care. I don't know anything. Neither one of you said anything about the show.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's in. It's exciting.

[James Marsden]

Sterling.

[Monica Padman]

I guess Sterling has his shirt off.

[Dax Shepard]

Titles. Paradise. I think I got that part right.

[James Marsden]

It's Paradise.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, that son of a Is on Hulu.

[James Marsden]

That's on that song.

[Dax Shepard]

A streaming.

[James Marsden]

So Hulu you can be Streaming. Streaming. You can stream it.

[Dax Shepard]

You can air stream. You can stream stream.

[James Marsden]

Yes. On Hulu. Officially the hardest project to talk about maybe. Other than Westworld.

[Dax Shepard]

This is your niche. You got to go out and promote and camp great.

[James Marsden]

And I don't have the brain to do it anyway. I can't tell you.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know.

[James Marsden]

So I have no answer for your question. It's filled with some good twists and turns and there's a little lost in there as well. The audience is going to be trying to figure out what the hell is going on through the whole thing. Thing.

[Monica Padman]

Is it a week to week drop or are they all out? Do we know? Because that makes a difference in a.

[James Marsden]

Miss Contact at the old Lulu. I think they're dropping the first two or three and then you're gonna have to wait every week. Yeah. Which. Give me your thoughts on that.

[Monica Padman]

I like it. I'm back to liking it.

[Dax Shepard]

I hate it and prefer it.

[James Marsden]

Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I love that it gives me 10 weeks of enjoyment instead of one night.

[Monica Padman]

Something to look forward to.

[James Marsden]

I'm gonn sound really old now. But when you live in the world where you can just get it whenever the hell you want it no one's being told no anymore. Like, there's a good thing to limits, even in entertainment. I think it's a good thing too. Like, you know, when the Beatles came.

[Dax Shepard]

Out, you didn't get all their albums.

[James Marsden]

No. You didn't get them at once. Probably impossible to see them live.

[Dax Shepard]

You got a couple songs before the album even came out. Like, it built up to now I can go get the whole album.

[James Marsden]

Or movies back in the day where they would come out and you would have to wait six months to see it again. I feel like there's something about the psychology of that that makes us enjoy it more. Or you even think something's better than it is because of that.

[Dax Shepard]

It's delayed gratification, which ultimately is always good. But if you don't buy into that, just fucking wait till March 28th. They'll all be out. And then you can sit down and plow through options. Yours.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, you can do whatever you want at that point. If you really want to fly through.

[Dax Shepard]

It, however you want to consume it, consume it. Well, Mars and this has been a blast. I love bumping into you.

[James Marsden]

We as actors, I feel like we're kind of somewhat solitary lives or can until the award shows, the events that.

[Dax Shepard]

Everybody goes to, which is the weirdest place to meet.

[James Marsden]

Always the weirdest. It's like, oh, hey, bud. Hey, bud.

[Monica Padman]

And everything feels contrived a little bit.

[James Marsden]

A little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you know, the most telling thing I walked away with after the Golden Globes this year is I just had this moment where I realized, oh, everyone I talked to told me I looked great. And I told everyone they looked great. And that's a weird thing. But everyone's nervous. They don't look good because they're going to be in photos and then on tv. So it's like you want to comfort everyone. You see you look great, and they're saying, you look great. And then I leave and I'm like, these are some of the greatest artists in the world. And what we're telling each other we look great. This is a little.

[James Marsden]

I imagine that must be insufferable.

[Monica Padman]

Just a lot. I think it's a good note. That is what everyone's afraid of. That's the insecurity at those things I can only handle.

[Dax Shepard]

I wanted to go like, I'm in a tux. I don't even deserve that. I look the way I look at every one of these. I can't look good or bad.

[James Marsden]

The way you feel about that is the reason why I want to rush to your side at these events. Because I'm like, this is a real human being. So it's nice to see you outside of all this BS that we do.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't tell you you looked great when I saw you at F1.

[James Marsden]

Please don't.

[Dax Shepard]

By the way. You always look great.

[Monica Padman]

I know. You don't even have to.

[James Marsden]

I feel redundant to tell you the easiest path to my heart is insult me.

[Dax Shepard]

I can be honest. There's one thing I did think at F1 a few times. I had this thought. I was like, marzin's kind of classy. I literally had that thought. I was like, he's, like, kind of dressed pretty nice at this thing, and he's got, like, a nice watch. I think he's classy.

[Monica Padman]

It a watch that's classy as hell.

[James Marsden]

Woke up in a dark room and fell into a closet. Yeah, it's a race. Why am I wearing a pinstriped searsucker?

[Dax Shepard]

Cuz you look rad. All right, James, do your buddies ever call you Jimmy?

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. So can I apply when I see you, Can I call you Jimmy?

[James Marsden]

You may. I don't know why or when I changed that. I mean, name was always James, but I grew up. My mother, my brother, sisters call me Jimmy. And then when I got to la, I. I was in that phase where.

[Dax Shepard]

You want to be serious.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[James Marsden]

I gotta be taken seriously. So I don't want to be in the teeny bop magazine.

[Monica Padman]

So I'm gonna be James little Jimmy Marsden. Yeah.

[James Marsden]

I think the first year I was here, the projects I did do, like Boogie's Diner with Jim J. Bullock, which is like a saved by the bell knockoff. It was billing as Jimmy Marsden. So when I hear somebody say Jimmy, I'm like, oh, that person's known me for a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

It isn't it just the most subtle way to reclaim and integrate who you were? That's what I think is sweet sweet about it. You come here, you're trying to hide who you were because you're afraid that that would expose you as not belonging here. And then at a certain point, you have some confidence and you go, I'm gonna start reintegrating the person I tried to distance myself from as a kid.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's like, part of your journey as a man.

[James Marsden]

Yeah, I totally see that. Why am I shoving that aside? Jimmy? I'm not trying to be so serious anymore. And it wasn't that silly.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Jimmy, I can't wait. Hey. Yeah, Jimmy.

[James Marsden]

Well, DS J. Yes, baby.

[Dax Shepard]

All Right, we'll come back. This was a blast.

[James Marsden]

I absolutely will. And hopefully have my whole full voice when I return.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I can't wait. The whole interview will be McConaughey.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy.

[Dax Shepard]

You might have said that one out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'll probably skip that.

[James Marsden]

That wasn't riveting to you?

[Monica Padman]

No, I love it. I can only handle it in small chunks.

[Dax Shepard]

She works with me every day, and I'm constantly doing somebody's voice. I'm like her little brother and her dad. It's very confusing.

[Monica Padman]

A lot of D dynamics of play.

[Dax Shepard]

Juggling a lot of identity.

[James Marsden]

So you've got a frequency for him that you can kind of turn down.

[Monica Padman]

I should.

[James Marsden]

You so desire.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's so obvious. I didn't see in her face the second I've lost her, which is quite regularly. All right, well, be well, everyone. Check out paradise. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. Do you feel extra press on your way to. To this award show to look extra stylish?

[Monica Padman]

That's a great.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it feel like you look extra stylish?

[Monica Padman]

Because of my big pants?

[Dax Shepard]

You were wearing an inclement weather jacket when you came in that you denied was a rain jacket.

[Monica Padman]

Look, I understand why you think it's a rain jacket because of the noise it was making. It was a. Yeah. Kind of windbreakery material. Ish. Yeah, yeah. I bought it vintage, so it could have been a rain jacket.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Sustainable.

[Dax Shepard]

Sustainable.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Doing your part. Do better.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So, bts, I'm going from this. Thank you. You rearranged the time a couple times, which was very nice. Oh, didn't mind one bit because your betrothed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Kristen. Is hosting the SAG Awards this year, Correct?

[Dax Shepard]

The Screen Actors Guild's awards.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. And she asked if I could come in once again. Return once again. That's right. Cause she was the first host ever.

[Dax Shepard]

2018.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. And so I, you know, wrote her stuff back then. And so she asked if I could come out of retirement. Yeah, exactly. And do that for her. And of course, I said yes. So we are about to go shoot a promo for it.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't really think about being extra stylish because it's not a fashion campaign.

[Dax Shepard]

No. But it's. I don't know. It's a shoot.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe subconsciously.

[Dax Shepard]

Subconsciously, yeah. New group of people, minimally. You want to put your best foot Forward.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I want to be cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I'm tired.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great. Me too. Why are you tired?

[Monica Padman]

I'm tired because of a big ding, ding, ding.

[Dax Shepard]

What?

[Monica Padman]

I started paradise last night. This is for little Jimmy Marsden.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Oh, baby Jimmy Marsden.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, the first three episodes are on Hulu.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I was so in, Right? Yes, I. I was so in, and then I panicked because I needed more. And we have screeners.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We're lucky enough to have screeners. And even though it is my stance, like, with Severance, that I don't, I learned, quote, learned my lesson from only murders in the building and because I watched all of those in one night.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you didn't delay your gratification enough.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't. They only give you so many, and then you have to wait a really long time. So I promised to myself I wasn't gonna do that with severance, and I haven't.

[Dax Shepard]

Good job.

[Monica Padman]

But with Paradise, I did. I watched all of it, except all of it. I didn't know they were gonna do the same thing. They always do this. It's not the end.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Again, I only have seven episodes.

[James Marsden]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Dax Shepard]

That version. I thought you were saying that the season finale ended on a cliffhanger or something without a resolution.

[Monica Padman]

No, there's eight episodes. We got seven.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, this happened, of course, with Severance.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then we. We started hounding Adam. Well, actually, when we did the podcast, they offered to get us the remaining three, but then that never happened.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I mean, those are under real lock and key, I got to assume.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that brings me to another thing, actually. Remaining four. So anyways, we've been hounding him, leaving aggressive messages, and I think they just came in, but they came in in a different screening platform, which every time. I know it's such a baby thing to complain about, but it takes sometimes 90 minutes to sign into these. These screening apps, because you have to use the Google Authenticator. You got to get a text, you got to do a magic link to another website. You're on your phone, but you realize an email's come through, and you need to see the email, but you follow the link through the original email. So to go. So you need, like, two or three devices going at once, all to say, I'm finally in on Apple screeners, and it's easy, but the next batch are on a different one.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's almost been a hurdle. Enough for me to slow it down.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, not almost.

[Dax Shepard]

It has been.

[Monica Padman]

I watched the first two, I'm caught up on severance.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. And you're not ahead at all.

[Monica Padman]

God, it's good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's a goodie.

[Monica Padman]

So good.

[Dax Shepard]

But you love, though. Paradise.

[Monica Padman]

Nice. I love it.

[Dax Shepard]

What a hook. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. We ran into this problem in the episode where you can't really say anything. I know. So that's just frustrating for people. But I'll just say I watched seven episodes last night.

[Dax Shepard]

That says a lot. I think that's enough of a testament to how good it is.

[Monica Padman]

And everyone's great. He's great in it.

[Dax Shepard]

Jimmy Marsden.

[James Marsden]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, of course.

[Monica Padman]

He really. He really.

[Dax Shepard]

I told. I was saying, you know, he's just legitimately good.

[Monica Padman]

He is. He's. He is very natural, and he plays that character very well.

[Dax Shepard]

But I loved that he was acknowledging. He's like. I just think I'm acting like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He's like, I'm always acting. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That was really refreshing because you can also be really good even if you have that feeling.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You can let yourself off the hook.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think everyone's having the experience that Dan Lewis and, you know, some of these others are having.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Well, we don't know. Maybe he feels like that, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Dan Lewis.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he is acting. I mean, he.

[Monica Padman]

Well, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

He's not even. Yeah. There's no him there. If ever there was some acting.

[Monica Padman]

Morphing.

[Dax Shepard]

He's morphing. He's channeling. He's transcending. He's got a liberal arts education. I want to give a shout out to Lincoln.

[Monica Padman]

She.

[Dax Shepard]

They had their last soccer game last night, and they had a perfect. They achieved their perfect season. Wow. Zero goals.

[Monica Padman]

Zero.

[Dax Shepard]

They didn't.

[Monica Padman]

Zero goals.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Zero. They scored zero times. And it got close. I got scared. There was a. There was finally a kick on goal last night, and it almost went in. I kind of panicked, like, oh, don't. Don't mess up your record.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And. But what's great is I think the girls, too, had a good sense of humor about it. You know, they joked about having a perfect season at this point.

[Monica Padman]

That's funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But this is tied in because a good friend of mine who works at HBO was there and he was talking about having just watched episode eight of White Lotus.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I had an envy it brewed up in me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Oh, he's allowed. He's gonna be killed.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he's. He's the producer. He has to watch.

[Monica Padman]

Now that you said it, he's gonna be killed. This is an Easter egg for an upcoming episode.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Marsden]

Truly.

[Monica Padman]

A couple episodes from now.

[Dax Shepard]

Five or six episodes from now.

[Monica Padman]

So TV is doing great right now.

[Dax Shepard]

It's doing great. We're fine. We have some big shows coming back, which is a huge relief. I felt like it slowed down quite a bit there, but we got some offerings now, and I feel comforted by that. I do want to do 40 seconds of navel gazing, and then I'm gonna. I'll. I'll table all the navel gazing for some period. But people, as you would probably guess, a lot of people felt very strongly with the point of view you were making. I guess it would be two fact checks ago. Aaron, was previous fact check. When we had our discussion about being authentic and sharing feelings.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And versus entertaining. And in a. In a respite. So, you know, people supported us on both sides.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I support us on both sides.

[Dax Shepard]

Me too. I only want to be clear about one thing. Neither of us are pitching all sadness or all entertainment. We're both pitching some balance.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I think, most importantly, people should know there's no pressure for us to be making it anything.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Some people were nervous about that. My goal is for it to have the balance it's always had. And I know it's your goal, too. We both have the same goal of having the balance we've always had.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then we have differing opinions on, you know, sometimes to me, it will.

[Monica Padman]

Hopefully, and not always. But I trust that it will always strike that balance because of the nature of our dynamics. So even when there's sadness or bad things or hard things, we talk about that. But then something funny will come up or something light will come up, too. And that's life, and that's the true to us. And so.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And then the last thing is. And I've said this before, probably in interviews and stuff, and I don't know if I've ever said it explicitly on here. There are people saying really heartfelt and moving things like, you have to understand we value your perspective on this. It helps us process the thing going on. And I. I mean, mostly people are feeling that way about me not commenting or spending a lot of time on the election or. Or the first week. I just want people. People to understand why that's my position, which is, I would never want a young dude who voted for Trump who's a sexual abuse survivor do not feel welcome here. I would not want an addict that voted for Trump to not feel welcome here.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

My. I just have a certain purpose that's Clear to me. And part of that purpose is I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome. And I think if I hunker down on either side of the political spectrum, I would just be kind of disinviting half the people. And so I hope people understand that's where it's coming from. It's not like just an obstinate sora. Is that the right word?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to talk about it. It's just. I want everyone to feel welcome.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's it for me.

[Monica Padman]

To me. And if you. If you take it from the perspective of this is sort of an AA meeting type setup, then. Yeah. You would never, I don't think, say, you can't come here.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Anyway, that was my navel gazing. Yep. I can move on now.

[Monica Padman]

Well, back to paradise. Little Jimmy's fantastic. And now I feel comfortable calling him that. After watching the show.

[Dax Shepard]

After watching the show. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did it make you want to smoke and drink?

[Monica Padman]

No. Well, I already drank, so I got that one down. It did not make me want to smoke.

[Dax Shepard]

Did I tell you about my. One of my favorite birthday presents I got?

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

From Matt and Laura.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a wooden box with a glass face and a little hammer, and the glasses break in case of emergency, and behind it is a pack of Camel cigarettes.

[Monica Padman]

That's fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't that great?

[Monica Padman]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

What a great gift.

[Monica Padman]

That's a really.

[Dax Shepard]

Really cracks me up. And I like it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's.

[Dax Shepard]

And I will break it in case something. If they go, the meteor is gonna hit Earth in eight hours. I'm gonna get it. Rip them out.

[Monica Padman]

I know. I've been thinking about. About what to do in the last hour.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Huh.

[Monica Padman]

If some bad event is happening.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Do I try to get to safety? Well, this. Like, Jess and I were talking about the. Or maybe we talked about it here also, but during the fires, we were thinking, you know, who. Oh, we said with Josh on Josh Gad's episode, like, who are you on the Titanic, which person are you?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

Are you the person who's really trying to figure out about how to get off? Are you the person helping arrange people to get off? Are you those people who just. They're, like, drinking wine as it's going down? I mean, we sort of said that was going to be us.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I was like, I'll be playing the cello still.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So I wonder. I wonder what you would do, what I would do, and if I'm going to try to like, save myself or just be like, you know what? Good ride?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's been a great ride for Eric and I. This topic comes up in. For Eric and I, it's always so simple, so clear to us how you'd want to die. You want to OD on opiates because you'd be feeling very blissful and then you just wouldn't wake up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Dax Shepard]

Most addicts kind of have the same. I heard people, well, I guess I'd want to, I guess get shot. That's fast. Or, you know, dying to fall off a building or I don't want to drown. I'm like, what about a nice gentle send off? I think that's the preferred.

[Monica Padman]

I kind of agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I've done some doctoring on myself, as I tend to do, and I think I was complaining about it last fact check. I've been seemingly sick for like eight weeks, something like this. And then when we were in Mexico, the elevation's quite high, so my nose was kind of bloody and dry. And then when I got back, it was really, really bad. And so I was like, what cold do I have? I was thinking, thinking, thinking. And all of a sudden it occurred to me yesterday morning, I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know what might be happening? I started thinking of my nasal passage as like an anal fissure. Oh, like, I blew it out so bad. Honk, honk, honk. You know, I'm really going at it, you know. Oh, yeah, way too aggressively. We're like, I had my eye bulged out at one point in Mexico.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like, we gotta throttle back on this exhaust because it's pushing on your eyes whenever. So it occurred to me, maybe I just, like, I have a lot of damage in there. The body's sending white blood cells to heal it, which is snot. And then I'm honking that out a second and I'm just in this endless loop of trying to repair. So yesterday I'm like, you're no longer allowed to blow your nose in. Monica. Of all the things I've done. Quit cigarette. You know, anything. This one's crazy hard.

[Monica Padman]

What about.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I've been blowing. It's definitely a tick now. It's definitely like, anytime I feel it, I have to do it. It's a thing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I have to just not blow my nose. I, of course, did have to blow my nose because it's still building up.

[Monica Padman]

That's what I'm saying. How about twice a day?

[Dax Shepard]

I probably hit it about six times yesterday, but down from probably 600 the day before.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so. And I'm only allowed to basically go like. Like if I have to blow harder than that to get it out, I'm not allowed.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I see. See, so that's.

[Dax Shepard]

I can even just like talk a lot and say, hopefully I'll just, you know.

[Monica Padman]

Are you worried stuff's gonna start coming out?

[Dax Shepard]

Of course. Yeah. And guess what? It's not. And already it stopped. It's dripping as much.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

So I really think thus far this diagnosis might be on.

[Monica Padman]

I think that's good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Is it bad to have tissues right there? That feels very taunting.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Like a little mirror and a straw.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's not very. You should move that out.

[Dax Shepard]

My old, old friend. I'd be so happy to say goodbye to that old friend.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, we do. We've talked about this. You are obsessed with the tissue box. Like, for you, that's a. That is an indicator of whether it's a nice hotel or not.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Well, it's. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And I've never noticed it. I never notice it.

[Dax Shepard]

It's also. It is reared itself in like photos I'll take in post. And I think people sometimes call out like, I. It looks a little perverse to always have a box of tissues with you.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

It looks like I'm always about to. Or just finished self pleasuring.

[Monica Padman]

Do you have a deviated septum?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Go to show what an addict I am. Like, I can even get addicted to, like blowing my nose.

[Monica Padman]

I am proud of you for noticing and stopping. And I will say I'm grateful. It's a lot to cut around and I. On video, it wasn't an issue before, but now we're seeing it. And so I do have to tell. I. I do have to make it clear, like, never be on a shot. You just can never be on a shot when Dax is blowing his nose. I've made that clear.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. That's one of the edicts to the editors. Okay. It did just make me think you don't. You almost never see anyone blow their nose in a movie unless they're playing.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Super sick.

[James Marsden]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's very achieving.

[Monica Padman]

And they're over the top. They're like tongue acting their nose.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. They're like this. Oh, honey. Do you bring up. Did you bring. The voice is always like. No, I did. I was on. I wasn't able to stop and get it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, it's more of a.

[Monica Padman]

You booked it.

[Dax Shepard]

I booked It.

[Monica Padman]

You booked it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I know. Thank you. Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

That was good.

[Dax Shepard]

And occasionally you'll see this too. You'll see. In a movie, you'll see a woman go into her person.

[Monica Padman]

Then of course, she's very sad. She's very sad.

[Dax Shepard]

But I can't think of a time I've seen Robert Dairo blow his nose. Is it really unsettling when. When you've seen it on video? Because obviously I've never seen it. Is it like my drumming face?

[Monica Padman]

It's a cat.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a bad look.

[Monica Padman]

I. I mean, no one wants the. It's like you just said, we don't see it. So it's very. It is like I'm not supposed to see that.

[James Marsden]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like someone wiping their butt and.

[Monica Padman]

It feels like, oh, wow. He just like really just doesn't give a.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Sure. There's like some subtext to it.

[Monica Padman]

Like he just really doesn't care. But that's not it, of course. It's just that you're in the zone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it's going to start rolling out of my nose if I.

[Monica Padman]

But it is a t. I. I have noticed and I do think it's gotten worse. Worse or more. I wouldn't say worse, but.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think it's okay to label some things first.

[Monica Padman]

More. And so I'm. I'm. I am personally delighted.

[Dax Shepard]

The. The human battle just doesn't quit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It won't end.

[Monica Padman]

It's really compliment. I think you often in life come to the right conclusions about things. But I do think it takes you a long time. Time.

[Dax Shepard]

But I also, in this case, like two months. I gotta be uncomfortable and miserable for a while.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I just think you do get there. Like, I have. I do know this as a pattern. Again, I was talking to Jess, obviously. Well, I did something sort of mean to him because he's my brother. Right. So. Wow, this is such a ding, ding, ding. He has this amazing job. He runs this business with this other guy and it's a service business. He teach. He goes to restaurants and teaches people how to give good service. Yeah. And it's incredible. And it's doing so well.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's so good.

[Monica Padman]

So proud of him.

[Dax Shepard]

That's great.

[Monica Padman]

It's really awesome. But you know when he does these like, classes for them and he's Jess. Like, it's very like animated and loud.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's an improv class.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And he's very on for all of it. So he is struggling with his voice.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's great.

[Monica Padman]

And he's been complaining about it a lot. And so I said, well, what are we going to do? We should, like, you know, Grethers. I also often offered that. Here.

[Dax Shepard]

Throat coat.

[Monica Padman]

Throat coat. Maybe a medicine. But he's just been complaining a lot about it. Understandably. This is where my impatience comes in.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

We were gonna hang out, so we FaceTimed. And the first thing he said was like, oh, my voice. And I said, well, I can't hear that again. And I'm lucky. I'm lucky. But. But I also. This is the conversation I want to get to. I know he can take that. And he did. He just, like, sat there for a second and he said, okay, I'm fixed. And I said, I'm not saying that. But also, like, we do need to figure it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Right.

[Monica Padman]

Or we can't complain anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

It's time to get into solution, as we would say.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. This is one thing I love about him. He, like, brought that up as a positive thing, and he was. And he said, I feel. I feel really lucky that you feel you can be that way with me or say a thing. That is true.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And he said, do you do that with everyone?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

75% is the same, but there's, like, a 25% that's adapting to who I'm around.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I'm not saying that phrase to everyone for sure. And. But I would.

[Dax Shepard]

I would argue it's. It's pretty gendered, too. Like, I think your dad gets it, your brother gets it. I get it. Jess gets it, and, yeah, your mom gets.

[Monica Padman]

It's four to one family.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I would say. Although I would never say that to Kristen.

[Dax Shepard]

I feel that. Right, Right. I've made this point before. I am able to speak to young men in a way I just wouldn't. I wouldn't speak to. You know, previously, I think I've told the story. Is like, my friend who I adore, Jay, who's, like, washed my razors and stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he would list all this stuff, and I just went out to him, listen, this is how you'll win in life. Just make shit disappear. Don't try to get any approval for it. Just make problems go away. And you will fucking own a company. Right. Like, I'll just. But I wouldn't. I can just be that way to dudes I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Well, because we were talking about another friend who I won't name. He was asking, what would you say this to her? It Was a girl.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I said, no, definitely not. That that person is, is very sensitive. Like, I know them and I. But I would say something. I would say, like, well, what can we do? Like, what can we do? How can I help? Something like that. So I'm still. The point is the same.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. You just have different bedside manner, but.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think you do that? Do you, do you think you're 75% one thing and then you adapt, or do you think you're like a hundred always?

[Dax Shepard]

I was just talking to this. It's adjacent to this, which is. No, I think I'm. I think I'm kind of overly soft when I, I will always say my thing. It's not like I'm, I'm a people pleaser.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I have been in a position many times where I have to give notes to people who work for me. So I have gotten very good, I think, at laying out notes in a, a, in a positive way to the degree that one of the first habits I had to break when I was messing around with AI is I would go generate an image of a van in the blah, blah, blah with the blah, blah, blah. And it would come up and. And then I would go, I swear to God, I was doing this like the first 20 times I use it. I was like, really great start. This works, this works, this works. Now could you add blank? And after about five, I was like, oh, I don't need to say any of that to this thing. Let's go like, make the wheels bigger.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Next thing, make them taller. No, but I was saying great job to AI.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Squarespace. Maybe you've got dreams of turning your hobby into a side hustle this year or finally opening an online store. Maybe you want to share your knowledge with the world and make an online course. Squarespace is the perfect partner to take your website to the next level and help you accomplish your 2025 goals. No matter what type of site you want to build, Squarespace can help you make it. If you're starting an online store, Squarespace makes checkout seamless. Their flexible payment options, including credit cards, PayPal and Apple Pay, make it easy for your customers to check out. And Squarespace has all the tools you need to create, create and sell your own online course. Start with a layout that fits your brand. Upload videos and customize everything with next generation editing technology. Create engaging lessons your audience will love. Then add a paywall and set the price. Take what you know, and turn it into income. We use Squarespace to make our lovely website incredible.

[Monica Padman]

And it functions, it's pretty, it's effective.

[Dax Shepard]

It'S efficient and highly functional.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And. And when you're ready to get started, go to squarespace.comdax to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com dax to get started today. That brings me to something that I'm afraid to talk about because I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings in my life.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But I also find the punchline of this is just too comical to. To not say in public.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

So there is a bit of a gender divide right now in our pod about how nervous men are about the air quality and how nervous the women are. And I know there's a lot of chains going on about different air purifiers and whatnot. And so Kristin's quite concerned about the air quality.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, she is.

[Dax Shepard]

She's reading a lot about it. I thank her for that, for our families safety. And also, every day, more air purifiers arrive to the degree that when you enter our house, it's like going into the reefer unit at a Costco. It's like. Like it's. We've got. We got six of them that filter out this particulate at 0.01. We've got a handful in the corners that are doing. Doing 003. They're all running. It's like there's a hum in the house. One of them was on auto and in the middle of the night, I think it thought there was a biological weapon went off in the bedroom because all of a sudden it was like there was a jet engine going on. I was like, what is that? And then I'm blind and I'm trying to fucking turn it off. And I got. So this has all been building and then there's some concern about water that has gotten in the water. All of this has been escalating and there's more and more air purifiers and. And we're. We're trying to navigate it. She knows I'm not.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She'll even say, like, I'm afraid to bring this up, but. Right. So it's. But we're getting through it, and I think it's going pretty well. And then I had overheard that, you know, we have these ulers to cool you down in the bed.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I had heard Carly was going through and running peroxide through all of them. But I use distilled water, so I'm not actually nervous about it. So when I saw while that this was going on, I was like, you know, you just stay right out of it. So last night I go to go to bed and I turn on the uler and it's making insane noises. I don't know what I'm hearing all kinds of weird new noises. And then I'm realizing, oh, the little water capsule wasn't set incorrectly. So I get that going. And now I realize, oh, it's out of water because maybe the peroxide thing. So I'm filling it with water and it just keeps making all these noises. All these noises. And I can't figure out what's going on. And then at some point, I can hear gushing water.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

And.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm like, oh, my. What's going on? And I pick up my pillow and where it goes into the bladder that has been torn at some point in this cleaning.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And it has just pumped a gallon of water onto my bed.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. And. And I was really tired.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I. I saw that. And. And poor Kristen saw that. And I'm sure she immediately was like.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

And I. I just walked into the bathroom and I. I leaned over the sink and I said to myself, she's trying her hardest to keep the family safe.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

What I was really screaming in my head is like, just leave me. Leave my things out of it. Just go crazy. But I just. I really have three. I need my uler and my coffee in the morning. So I was being. I was. Went to self pity. And then I said, stop, stop, stop. This is a human being who's trying her hardest to keep everyone healthy.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, she's. She is.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I came back in and I was very pleasant and I said, I'm going to go sleep downstairs.

[James Marsden]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Because my bed was soaking wet, of course. And I walked downstairs and I realized I can't sleep in the guest room because that's where Whiskey's cage is. And Whiskey wakes up all night long barking. And then I said, no, I'm going to go outside.

[Monica Padman]

Outside.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I slept in the guest house.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Okay. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. So I was sleeping in the guest house, and I was thinking maybe I could claim this as my house.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, now listen, listen, I. I want to say something to you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I understand all of this.

[Dax Shepard]

Both sides.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, of course. I think. And I. This probably isn't the place to say it, but I do feel safer saying it here. I think you're feeling a real lack of control in your life right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

From a lot of angles.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

And so these things are very heightened.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And anything is very heightened. And especially in our personal things get very heightened when anyone feels like they have a lack of control. But especially you, because that is a. That's a. That's hard for you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're right. And I felt like I lost control of my bed.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And, oh, my God, I can't. I can't even count on sleeping in my bed now.

[Monica Padman]

That's where it goes. Exactly. That's the thing. Like, again, understandably, that's like the bedrock of your trauma is not having control. So, you know, a flooded bed where people who don't have that background are just going to be like, oh, they'll be annoyed. Like, oh, now I have to deal with this. This is so, so annoying. You're probably not gonna go to. Well, now I don't even have a bed. That's mine.

[Dax Shepard]

I have no control over my.

[Monica Padman]

I have all this stuff and not. And no control over any of it.

[Dax Shepard]

And I live with dogs, and I don't want to. I don't get to control whether I have allergies. And I. Yeah, I started. You're right. I. I start compiling, but it's not out of nowhere.

[Monica Padman]

It's. Because there's been a lot of stuff that is. Is priming you for this. It's just gonna get triggered easily until we can let some of that go. Well, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think it's a horrible idea to contact Mark. It can't hurt.

[Dax Shepard]

It's never hurt. It's only help.

[Monica Padman]

Literally never hurt. I'm just saying. I see.

[Dax Shepard]

That's coupled. It's all coupled. The timing's perfectly. I even said this out loud yesterday. Said it out loud. I'm like, there's some huge growth around the corner.

[Monica Padman]

The high growth.

[Dax Shepard]

Can feel it. Because it's also. It's all coinciding. Maybe I already said this with me writing about something I was never going to write about.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think I knew that.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm at the point in the memoir where I'm having to write about the thing I was never going to write about.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I don't mind saying I was molested. I had no intention to ever detail to anybody ever on this planet what happened.

[Monica Padman]

Details.

[Dax Shepard]

And so I've been for maybe eight days.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

Going through that every Morning. You know.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Yeah. That's a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

So I think. I think that's in the stew.

[Monica Padman]

Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

I think being made fun of and all these award shows is in the stew. I think that. I think there's. I think the fires are the stew. I think the fans and the air purifier. Yeah, I think you're right. I think there's a lot. Like, I'm spending time revisiting that apex.

[Monica Padman]

Of loss of will, the impetus of that, really.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And then all these other things are coincided in a very sim, like, impossibly coincidental January way. And so, yeah, I'm hanging on at times by a threat, but I'm very proud to say I haven't had any kind of blowups.

[Monica Padman]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

I haven't had any fantasies about escaping. Maybe going to Nashville to get my bus.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But then you be like, two days of, you know, where I'm just driving a vehicle I can control. That seemed very appealing, but I. I flagged it as you're just trying to escape. Like, you're trying to not walk through all this. You're trying to take a little break. There's the logical stuff, and then there's what's really going on. And I think I did go, like, yeah, you're just. You want to escape right now.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's good. I mean, it's good that you recognized it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It'll all pass.

[Dax Shepard]

It'll all pass.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But. Yeah, I didn't know you were doing that. And that obviously is gonna be a.

[Dax Shepard]

That's how I start my day. I don't know if the order is.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, maybe you should do it at night.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but then maybe I go bad. Yeah, but I've been waking up. I've, you know, I've been having like two hour chunks where I'm up at night, too.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I mean, growing pains, I guess. But also, it is kind of funny that you just brought up the fires because, you know, during COVID I think beginning of COVID you've said it that, you know, your goal is to reduce panic.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

With all of us who are panicked or, you know, like heightened. Heightened. Yeah. And you're trying to bring that down. You. In some ways in doing that, you're like, it's not. You don't. You're not saying. It's not that big of a deal, but, like, that's like the energy, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then, you know, year and a half goes by and you set and you have the recognition, like, oh, that did Affect me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Huh.

[Monica Padman]

Even though I was like, it's not that big of a deal or I'm not. It did. And so when the fires were happening. And to me, it was, like, a little tangential, like, they were. It was a similar.

[Dax Shepard]

Felt identical.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Masks and the.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Evacu.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. And the fear versus the panic versus. It's not that big of a deal. I thought, like, I mean, in some time there's gonna be a realization.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That. That had an impact.

[Dax Shepard]

I totally agree with you. But I don't know if I think it was Covid that scared me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I do think living with people that had heightened emotions that were scaring me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did have a pretty big impact on me.

[Monica Padman]

Well, no, but even just, like, the whole experience of it, the isolation, the time together that was so intense, the. The. The unknown. How long is it gonna be? Like, all these things that we just all lived with and dealt with very differently. And I do think some people immediately know the feeling. Right. It's like they have the feeling. Minute one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's true.

[Monica Padman]

You're in a zone.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't cry over my dad till, like, four months later.

[James Marsden]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It takes a minute.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't cry over the USO tour till I was telling my mom about it when I was out of the situation.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So maybe it's just now it's, like, catching up a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

I heard that dude shared in the meeting on Monday that he has this weird comedown. He was like, oh, I don't know what the fuck to do now. I knew how to get the hoses out, and I knew how to do this, and I knew how to do that. Now I don't really know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This. You know, the air quality. I can't get a hose out.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

What can I do. Do.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Other than buy a couple dozen?

[Monica Padman]

I think you have some you could lend. Oh, speaking of other. Something else. Uncontrollable.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Diarrhea.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Diarrhea.

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't want to talk about that. My friend's house was robbed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, tell me about that. I'm. I'm quite curious. What happened? Were they home?

[Monica Padman]

Completely unrelated. No, not home, thank goodness. But also on purpose, I'm sure. Like, I think these people probably were staking out the joint.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. Casing the joint.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. And so they knew they weren't there.

[Dax Shepard]

That's preferred, of course.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. But unrelated to the fires. Like, they were out of town for just a night. And what's really such a weird, sad bummer is she had just put all her irreplaceable items into a fire safe. Because of the fires, obviously.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And they assumed there was valuables in there. Uh huh.

[Monica Padman]

They took the whole safe.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what's tricky about a safe.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what, the move is probably to just leave it unlocked.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If you're just gonna put memorabilia in there, like leave it unlocked so they can see the.

[Monica Padman]

So you could still grab it easily. I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

And if there's a fire, you hit lock. But while it's safe sits there, you leave it unlocked because it doesn't need to be locked to be fire retardant.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It can have the door shut without you having locked it.

[Monica Padman]

That's a good idea. Maybe.

[Dax Shepard]

I know because I was going to say I don't really understand modern robberies because there's nothing to fence unless people have some crazy jewelry collection or a bunch of watches. But like all the stuff people stole and the 80s and 90s is like valueless in the secondhand. You can't sell a 55 inch TV for more than $100. Like I'm not sure what they think they're going to get.

[Monica Padman]

I think the jewelry is the big thing. And yeah, watches, I mean, that's what they stole. And she even said, you know, you can have that stuff. You can. Like she. There was one valuable piece of jewelry in there, that was her wedding bracelet. That was like gifted from a family member, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But the rest of it is all like, definitely not things the robbers want. And. And I said maybe you could put a note on the door saying if you stole my stuff, can you just bring back these items, please? That's sad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But she's doing okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And is the husband now wanting to like arm himself. Himself and get a he?

[Monica Padman]

Like he's not. But of course.

[Dax Shepard]

Are they rolling with it or are they.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, they're doing okay, but they. I mean, this is always what happens in any of these circumstances where there's violation. You feel guilty, Ryan.

[Dax Shepard]

Like you did something wrong, you did.

[Monica Padman]

This and that caused this, or you didn't do this and now this happened and it's the same. It's like, yeah. Are he. We're wired that way. I assume because you want to learn from your mistakes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but. But it's so unfair.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You should be able to recognize it without the shame or the guilt.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, I think they might. They're both struggling a little bit with.

[Dax Shepard]

That we're reading the new unstoppable books by Yuval Harari at night to the kids by we. Kristen's reading it to them and I listen and sometimes fall asleep. But he was describing a scene where the sapiens might have seen a group of Neanderthals approach. Because, you know, Neanderthals were there and then they went extinct or some got absorbed into our genes. But in general they were killed out. They were out competed by sapiens. And he was setting. Describing this scene. But also in the book, there's the Dovion. I can't say the word, but these Dovion people that were on an island. So they got smaller, really tiny, like 2ft 9.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. This is an Easter egg for a future fact.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm just laying there listening and I was thinking to myself how predictable we are. If you're a group of a hundred sapiens and you see these neanderthals, you see 12 of them and they're bigger than you, you're scared.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so you try to neutralize this thing. If the Denovians had rolled up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They would have probably been kind to him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he even talks about often they kill off the Neanderthal parents, but then they would care for the kids or babies of the Neanderthals because.

[Monica Padman]

And I'm like.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, girls, this is, this is the, like, this is the crux of violence is. Is fear of.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If you see little people walk up on the scene, you're like, oh, gitchy. Get you goo. Want some food. Come in here.

[Monica Padman]

Unless they are called demons or something. Like they make them a different type of threat.

[Dax Shepard]

They could be miss. Yeah. Is outcasts, magicians.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Evil magic powers.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly. So fact, James. The tallest and smallest woman. Women.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I saw them again. They came up organically in my feed, hanging out again. Same stuff we already saw, but it was. It was back. I think it's gaining popularity.

[Monica Padman]

I hope.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

The world's tallest woman is Ramisa Gel.

[Dax Shepard]

Beautiful.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I don't know how to say it. And the world's shortest woman woman is Yodi. Omg.

[Dax Shepard]

Which again, it really sounds like a short person's name.

[Monica Padman]

I know, I know. Well, it just sounds cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Yodi. And like Yoda.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And Yoda is very, very small.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And to be fair, it's J Y O T I. So I don't actually know.

[Dax Shepard]

Could be Jody.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Or G OT or something. Yeah. They met in London In November for afternoon tea. And roommate Lisa is 7ft 0.7 inches and Yodi is 2ft 0.7 inches.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's just a miracle that they're exactly five feet apart.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

That they're both 0.7.

[Monica Padman]

It's like how me and you have the exact same iq.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Makes no sense.

[Dax Shepard]

Suspicious.

[Monica Padman]

And this was from the. Get the Guinness through this. Guinness World Records, obviously.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. They're the only ones that could ethically host this kind of thing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If it was Barney Barling and brothers Barney and Bailey.

[Monica Padman]

Barnum and Bailey. Barnum and Bailey.

[Dax Shepard]

Go. Come on, guys.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Knock this off. That shit's true. We got to retire that. But Guinness, you're like, get them together.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

A couple world record holders.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder what the volume difference was in tea they drank. That interests me.

[Monica Padman]

They're so awesome. And we think they look like us.

[Dax Shepard]

They do. They look quite a bit like USA.

[Monica Padman]

Looks like you and Yo Jodie looks like me.

[Dax Shepard]

And we desperately. Although I don't know that this puts us in the Barnum and Bailey category.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

We desperately want them to come to the. The garage and have tea.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So that we can all stand in a perfect line. Linear line going up.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

From Yodi to Monica to Daxie to Ramesa.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that would be a stunning photograph.

[Monica Padman]

I agree. You also wanted to. To do boxes where we all reach the same height.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. Where we're all exactly 7.7 inches tall.

[Monica Padman]

But we said that's a little scary for Yodi.

[Dax Shepard]

It's quite scary for Yodi. But what I like about that proposition is that her box will be exactly your height.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's really cool.

[James Marsden]

So you're.

[Dax Shepard]

You're three feet taller than her, and I'm only probably almost one foot taller. Rameis is one foot taller than me.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So to be honest, we do have to invite someone who is 4ft tall just to make it perfect.

[James Marsden]

You need Calvin.

[Dax Shepard]

Calvin.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that actually works.

[James Marsden]

Color wise, it's a gradient.

[Dax Shepard]

Calvin's a beautiful transition.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's on the wrong side. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because Remisi is wider than me, which is hard to do.

[Monica Padman]

Right. She's wider than you. Yodi looks similar. Similar to my coloring.

[Dax Shepard]

She looks just similar to you, period. You know, we were discussing last fact check if you were a great artist. I'd love to see what you see in the mirror.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And if I was an incredible artist and I drew a picture of You. You might find that it looks a lot like Yodi. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

God, this reminds me of the other day. I was with Anna, and we were. This is no offense to anyone, but we. We were at a crosswalk, and she said, is that you? And I looked over, and there was a woman there. She was wearing a mask, so I couldn't see her full face, but I think she was wearing a mask. Maybe I added that in my head. Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

This doesn't sound like the clearest memory.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, it was traumatic because I saw her, and I was like, oh. And then she got closer, and I was like, I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but that's. That's a common occurrence. I know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but that's upsetting. It's upsetting.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't like the comp.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. But also in.

[Monica Padman]

She was a beautiful woman.

[Dax Shepard]

In Anna's defense, I have the experience quite often where you see someone from a distance, and as they get closer, you start realizing, oh, this is a different person than I saw.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. But she didn't say, oh. Actually not. But maybe she got in her head.

[Dax Shepard]

She got in her head. She went like, oh, that was a bad comp. Now that she's closer. But now what do I say?

[Monica Padman]

She could have said, oh, actually, never mind. That's bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Bad comp.

[Monica Padman]

Bad comp. That's all you have to say?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Bad comp.

[Monica Padman]

Also, maybe it's right. It's probably a good comp. That's the. This is where things get tricky.

[Dax Shepard]

I doubt.

[Monica Padman]

And I'm a good comp for Yodi. Okay, now, does yawning help ear clearing? Yes, it does. It opens the eustachian tubes, which allows air to flow into the middle ear and equalize pressure, popping your ears. So that would have worked if he had just tried it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He was being insolent.

[Monica Padman]

He was. Can a Chihuahua and a mastiff have an offspring? Great Dane is what I found.

[Dax Shepard]

People are most curious.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Chihuahua and Great Dane, it says. Highly unlikely to produce viable offspring because of their extreme size difference, making natural mating nearly impossible, imposing significant health risks for both the mother and potential puppies. Therefore, responsible breeders were never, would never attempt such a cross. But it is. It is technically possible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And we would want it to be a male Chihuahua impregnating a female Great Dane, because a Great Dane offspring inside of a Chihuahua uterus could be lethal.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Also the boy. It would be almost impossible for the Great Dane male to enter the Chihuahua to stoop down low enough to get the penis.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It would have to.

[Dax Shepard]

But a little Chihuahua if a great name was taking a nap on its side.

[Monica Padman]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, it consented. Let's just say it consented.

[James Marsden]

Sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm drowsy, but whatever you want to do while I'm out. And then it was laying perfectly on the side. It could definitely get up there. It's like laying on the ground and it's the.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, the Chihuahua is the penis. Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So the Great Dane female or gal is laying on her side or our back? No, her side. Oh. And then the little Chihuahua just comes up and hump, hump, hump. He's at the right height if she's.

[Monica Padman]

Laying on her side. Oh, I see. I see what you're saying.

[Dax Shepard]

And then she could probably have 13, 14 pups in the litter and not even notice. Little tiny pup.

[Monica Padman]

She just thinks she mosquito bites.

[Dax Shepard]

Like a heavy, heavy flow.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So if it's got to be done, that's. That's what we recommend.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Update. I am leaning more and more. But don't hold me to this, but I'm leaning more and more towards eventually potentially getting a dog.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Wow. When I move into my house.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think that's a great idea.

[Monica Padman]

I need a. I think I will feel safer.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep. Get a big boy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. A big boy. Erica and Charlie have been fostering this German shepherd.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

And a very, very smart dog. Even a puppy is very smart.

[Dax Shepard]

They're great dogs. I'm terribly allergic to their hair, but.

[Monica Padman]

You are.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. My. My mom's dog, Breezy, which who I loved. And I love Pee Pee.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Pee Pee.

[Dax Shepard]

But boy, they shed like a mother. And when I be at my mom's house, I couldn't breathe.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I don't want shedding.

[Dax Shepard]

Get a doodle. Get some kind of a doodle.

[Monica Padman]

But are they going to protect boy?

[Dax Shepard]

That's a good question.

[Monica Padman]

I need one that is nice and a killer. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

A reformed bat.

[Monica Padman]

I think German shepherds are that. Yeah, they are, but I don't. My house is going to be so pretty. I cannot have it covered in hair.

[James Marsden]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

And they fucking shit.

[James Marsden]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

But you got to get something that.

[Monica Padman]

Doesn'T shed back to the drawing board.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. You said the fewest among the armchair anonymous callers are from Oklahoma. I'm not going to second that.

[Dax Shepard]

Can't substantiate that claim. No.

[Monica Padman]

The house with that, James had his party. His 50th birthday party. This is the episode.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

This is the episode that was hilarious because we were Talking about surprise parties and 50th birthday parties, and yours was in the works that you didn't know.

[Dax Shepard]

A couple days out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. James Goldstein, the Sheets Goldstein residence is the home that he had the party. That's a big, iconic home in la.

[Dax Shepard]

Gorgeous place.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Oh, the. The phobia of getting sued is liticophobia.

[Dax Shepard]

That makes a ton of sense. Litigaphobia.

[Monica Padman]

Nick Nolte is not from Oklahoma. He's from Omaha.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Easy, man. Mistake. And Brad Pitt was born in Shawnee, Oklahoma.

[Dax Shepard]

Congratulations. Shawnee.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Yeah, that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

Would you rather be known as the town that produced the tallest woman in the world? The shortest woman in the world, or Brad Pitt tallest? Same.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's the rarest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I just imagine you could put a statue in town for that and it would drop the shortest person. You'd miss it. If you wanted to break stereotypes, the move would be to put a statue of the tallest woman next to the statue of the tiniest man.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That was your goal.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I like that. And Calvin in the middle.

[James Marsden]

Calvin right in the middle.

[Monica Padman]

All right.

[Dax Shepard]

That's all right. Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[James Marsden]

Foreign.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail].

[Monica Padman]

Hey, everyone, it's your girl, Kiki Palmer.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you know I host a podcast.

[James Marsden]

Called Baby, this is Kiki Palmer, and you're not going to believe the conversations I've had. Like, is Onlyfans Only bad?

[Monica Padman]

How has dating changed in the digital age? What's the deal with Disney adults?

[James Marsden]

I talked to John Stamos, the vp, Kamala Hearst, to Jordan Peele, Raven Simone, and yes, the one and only Jamila Jamil. And just wait until you hear our conversation. We talk Twitter drama, bad dates, and then time.

[Monica Padman]

How the hell do you actually get sexy? Like, what the hell does that mean? Like, I know how to be funny. I know how to be like. You know what I'm saying?

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly.

[James Marsden]

Like, I don't really know how to be like, and take you.

[Monica Padman]

I'm not robbing Givens.

[James Marsden]

You know, it's like, how do people do that?

[Monica Padman]

I've been in this situation too many times and not. Not felt any of those things. The diet.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I've never been quiet a moment in my life.

[James Marsden]

Yes, Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. No topic is off limits. Follow Baby this is Kiki Palmer on.

[Monica Padman]

The Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[James Marsden]

You can listen early and ad free.

[Monica Padman]

Right now by joining Wondery Plus.