Jerrod Carmichael Returns

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Episode: Jerrod Carmichael Returns
Release Date: July 14, 2025

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1. Introduction and Guest Overview

In this episode of Armchair Expert, host Dax Shepard welcomes comedian and actor Jerrod Carmichael as a returning guest. Joined by co-host Monica Padman, the trio delves deep into Jerrod's personal journey, creative processes, and the complexities of fame and self-acceptance.

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2. Personal Growth and Vulnerability

Jerrod opens up about his struggles with addiction and his journey towards sobriety. At [04:10], he shares, "I stopped smoking weed two years ago just on a whim, out of nowhere. I was in Paris and I was like, I don't want this anymore. And I just stopped." This candid admission sets the tone for a conversation centered on vulnerability and personal growth.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([04:10]): "I stopped smoking weed two years ago just on a whim, out of nowhere. I was in Paris and I was like, I don't want this anymore. And I just stopped."

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3. The Michael Jackson Legacy

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Michael Jackson, exploring his dual legacy as a groundbreaking artist and a controversial figure. Jerrod and Dax dissect the complexities surrounding Jackson's personal life and his contributions to music.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([17:10]): "Michael is kind of a lesson, especially for now, where like Michael Jackson is absolutely a pedophile."

Notable Quote:
Dax Shepard ([19:06]): "He was in orgies."

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4. The Burden of Self-Awareness

Jerrod touches upon the immense pressure of self-awareness, particularly for black men in the spotlight. He discusses how representing a community adds layers of responsibility and stress, leading to feelings of being trapped or judged.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([10:47]): "The burden of self-awareness. Being aware of how you sound versus how someone else sounds... it's a lot to put on a person."

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5. Evolving Relationships and Open Relationships

The conversation shifts to relationships, where Jerrod shares his experiences with open relationships. He candidly discusses the challenges of maintaining intimacy and trust while navigating desires for novelty.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([53:06]): "I want to fuck everybody all the time."

Notable Quote:
Dax Shepard ([53:17]): "Fantasy."

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6. The Impact of Public Perception

Jerrod and Dax explore how public scrutiny affects personal identity and artistic expression. They debate the extent to which artists should be held accountable for their actions versus being celebrated for their talents.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([22:39]): "My belief is that everyone is in the closet about something... And the condemnation is a self condemnation."

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7. Family Dynamics and Personal Anecdotes

The trio shares personal stories about family interactions, relationships with parents, and the evolving dynamics within Jerrod's family as his father battles Parkinson's disease. These anecdotes provide a glimpse into Jerrod's personal life and the influences shaping his worldview.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([15:33]): "My parents were hot. Very hot."

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8. Concluding Insights

Towards the end of the episode, Jerrod reflects on the importance of curiosity, acceptance of flaws, and the continuous journey of self-improvement. He advocates for embracing one's imperfections and fostering genuine connections without fear of judgment.

Notable Quote:
Jerrod Carmichael ([21:54]): "There is something to offer because hopefully your audience will age."

Notable Quote:
Dax Shepard ([24:16]): "And that's part of the letting go. Trying to go, like, well, I'm here now, and I'm safe."

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Key Takeaways

• Vulnerability as Strength: Embracing vulnerability leads to personal growth and deeper connections.
• Complex Legacies: Figures like Michael Jackson embody both immense talent and significant controversies, highlighting the complexity of human nature.
• Self-Awareness Pressure: Public figures, especially from marginalized communities, face heightened pressures of self-awareness and representation.
• Relationship Dynamics: Open relationships present unique challenges that require transparency and continuous dialogue.
• Curiosity and Acceptance: Maintaining curiosity about others and accepting one's flaws fosters healthier interactions and personal peace.

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This episode offers an unfiltered look into Jerrod Carmichael's life, blending humor with profound insights on fame, relationships, and self-acceptance. For those who haven't listened, it's a compelling exploration of the human condition through the lens of a seasoned comedian.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard joined by Monica Padman.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello. We have a returning guest today, Gerard Carmichael.

[Monica Padman]

One of our favorite first time appearances.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And this one delivers as well.

[Dax Shepard]

Since then he popped up pour things which was so fun.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

On the count of three, Jarrad Carmichael. Raaniel. We were talking about that with him last time and Gerard and Jerrod Carmichael reality show and of course the Carmichael Show. He has a new comedy special out now on Max called Don't be Gay.

[Monica Padman]

We love Jarod.

[Dax Shepard]

We love Jarod.

[Monica Padman]

He's so easy to talk to. He goes deep.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a special mfer.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Please enjoy Jerrod Carmichael. We are supported by Audible. Thanks to Audible for being the presenting sponsor of today's episode. We could all use an escape these days and the best way to do it audible. With over 1 million titles in their selection, there's more to imagine with Audible. We are supported by Smallwood Home. Smallwoodhome.com turns your favorite photos into gallery quality framed prints or wrapped canvases or all handcrafted in the usa, shipped in days and priced to make your whole home smile. Rob just got me the most gorgeous small wood framed photo of my Papa Bob which is now hanging in the Nashville studio and it turned out absolutely gorgeous. How many amazing pictures do you have just sitting on your phone wasting away into the cloud. Take those memories and put them on display in the real world. Having something on the wall that's personal and not just a designy print you picked up at the store can make a space feel truly your and we love that. Small wood home is a small business that takes their time to craft every single piece right here in the US no assembly lines or robots involved. Join the over 3 million happy customers who have made their house into a home with Smallwood Home right now. Get 30% off when you use code [e-mail] that's promo code DAX to get 30% off your first order at smallwoodhome.com Give your memories the showcase they deserve. We are supported by BetterHelp. You know, as we are in the height of summer now, I am reminded about how important it is to be able to step away from work and manage some of that stress you collect over the work year. Workplace stress is now one of the top causes of declining mental health, with 61% of the global workforce experiencing higher than normal levels of stress. To battle stress, most of us can't wave goodbye to work. But we can start small with a focus on wellness. Therapy can help you navigate whatever challenges the workday or any day might bring. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient, too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Unwind from work with better help, armchairies get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Dax that's betterhelp h lp.com Dax.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Can I do some coffee? Is that an insane request?

[Monica Padman]

No, it's not.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I haven't had coffee in a couple days and I was afraid it was.

[Monica Padman]

Gonna make me, like, oh, jittery.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But I like something warm.

[Dax Shepard]

How could you have not had coffee in a couple days? Cause that tells me you do drink it, but also you might not drink it for two days. That's a very weird relationship.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of had a relationship with a lot of stuff. Like, I stopped smoking weed two years ago just on a whim, willy nail out of nowhere. Yeah. I was in Paris and I was like, I don't want this anymore. And I just stopped.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But your coffee every day?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, several. And we just had a doctor on who told us. Thank God.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he said it's great for us.

[Dax Shepard]

It's one of the great things you can do for yourself.

[Monica Padman]

Everything else was bad. Everything else you consumed to a certain extent was a negative marker, but this was a positive one. So we always drink one in between record. Like, we'll have one after.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. We try to do several.

[Monica Padman]

I have a tea in the mindset.

[Dax Shepard]

But Monica's new to it, and you guys are the same age, so this is interesting. You just turned 38.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I just turned 38.

[Dax Shepard]

April.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

April, yeah. Yeah. You're 38.

[Monica Padman]

I'm about to turn 30.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

How old are you?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm 50.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm 50.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You're like Hollywood vitamin drip in the gym. You're like the new 50. 50. Not the 50 of old days.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes. My father at 50 and I are much different scenarios. But what is a real weakness in my routine is the face, which you just mentioned. I don't ever get facials I probably got to get on that because the face is starting to wear a little bit like a catcher's glove.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You don't want to go crazy on things. Especially you want to continue to act and stuff like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Don't want to look insane.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

It's unfortunate because acting is about expression and people's faces are not moving.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. A lot of folks face are on hiatus during the performance.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That's really bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That's not supposed to happen.

[Monica Padman]

Well, when I went to get Botox, my guy said, I'm going to give you the. I forget, maybe it was like the actor's dose.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it has a name.

[Monica Padman]

He had a name for it. So that. Can you see?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What if he's like, do you want Emmy, BAFTA or Academy Award? That's the dose. I gotta go. No dose for egot.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I mean, you look great.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But what inspired. I missed that episode. What inspired me getting it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you've missed a lot of episodes if you missed that.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Cause I probably talk about it a lot. So. Actually, I didn't go in there to get Botox. I went in there to get chin filler.

[Dax Shepard]

Congratulations. Which turned out lovely. She feels really good.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I've now had two rounds of chin filler.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

What does that do? Forgive me.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, it's.

[Dax Shepard]

You're acting like you don't know. You know all this stuff.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, what I really know about is, like, what Michael Jackson did, because Michael Jackson was the extreme case.

[Dax Shepard]

Nuclear option.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Michael Jackson had a tattoo of a hairline, like it was a black tattoo. He had pink tattooed lips. He got the cleft in his chin.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Adorable.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

He got like, the nose and am.

[Dax Shepard]

I wrong, the nose ultimately came off entirely.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

If you read the autopsy, which I have.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, of course.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. They said that he was at the edge of the bed, his wig had fallen off and it was only sparse pieces of hair and that his nose was not there. Really? Pushed to an extreme.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well, he pushed everything to an extreme.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That's part of his whole being.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I do love that man so much.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I want you to land that plane. And then I want to ask about Mike. Jack.

[Monica Padman]

Sure. This is so silly, but okay. So I hate my neck. So I went to a place.

[Dax Shepard]

You might think it's about the chin. It's not about the chin, exactly.

[Monica Padman]

I hate my neck. And so I was like, I want to get this thing called Kybella, which basically freezes the fat around your neck. So I went to Go do that. And they were like, oh, you actually don't have any. It looks like that because your chin is so small.

[Dax Shepard]

They didn't use the word weak. I feel like a man. They would have said weak.

[Monica Padman]

And really got.

[Dax Shepard]

Chin is weak. Yeah. Like, oh, fudge, I look weak.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I'm going to say something that's going to overstep. Say, I would like for you not to change.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think that's very sweet.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Only because the first time I was here, you were my big takeaway. I went back being like, oh, I love Monica. She's great. You're great, too. But, like, I really have a memory of you and your face and your smile and all of it comes with it.

[Monica Padman]

Are you different?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, no, no. And this will update the memory. Oh, no, no, no. But I'm saying I selfishly don't want you to change because I think you're beautiful and great and not in the cliche, but just that you're needed to hear that.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you today.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I mean that. Cause, like, really, I left being like, Monica's great. I, like, really fall in love with.

[Monica Padman]

Well, the feeling's mutual. Me especially. I've been like, that's my. One of my favorite. Okay. And Dax as well.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No. In all transparent. I got my teeth fixed. That was my first major purchase.

[Monica Padman]

Veneers.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, they redid the whole thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Page one rewrite.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. For the front row. And I did it in between seasons.

[Dax Shepard]

Really quick for the front row. Implying you might have other rows.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The front row. The front row. The visible seat back.

[Dax Shepard]

Shark teeth are still fucked up.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I did it between season one and season two. I had a sitcom on NBC and I changed it. And then I checked Twitter just like. Oh, no. I see, though, like, people just calling it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's brave. To go mid series.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. Mid series.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I almost wish you did it mid episode.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I know. I needed the money from season one to do it for season two. We all have a thing, so that is cool. I'm just saying specifically for you. You're so memorable and great.

[Monica Padman]

Aw.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I suggest something, though, that feels transparent to me, which is. That's not a shock to me that you were attracted to her.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I think you see in her immediately someone who was also hiding.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Really? Tell me more about this.

[Monica Padman]

Well, hiding, hiding.

[Dax Shepard]

Hiding in plain sight.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Hiding in plain sight. Because I grew up in Georgia and I hated being brown, so.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I was constantly trying to assimilate into white.

[Dax Shepard]

She outwitted the white girls cheerleading.

[Monica Padman]

Cheers, actually. I mean, not to, like, jump so far ahead, but here we are. You're special. We'll get to it. But when I watched it, this new one, I was like, I really understand what he's doing, because I'm the same now. I'm like, I'm not gonna assimilate. I'm not gonna do just what you want me to do. Because you're the hegemonic group, I'm now swung so far on the other side that I feel like no one's gonna put me in that box again. And I feel like you have that as well.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Trying to compete. You know, the hard thing for me, I'm sure you felt this way. It's the burden of self awareness. Being aware of how you sound versus how someone else sounds, how you move, what you like, what your interests are versus someone else being black. You're tall. This isn't your world. You have to be aware of yourself, and you're kind of representing a lot of other people in all of your actions. So that's a lot to put on a person, you know, on a child. And a lot to carry. Like, a lack of freedom.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I found myself recently being jealous. Certain people are very free, and I get a little jealous of that. I want to be free.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but you never had the luxury of doing so.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to make a prediction. Guess. Which is okay. So when Bend it like Beckham came out for Monica, you would imagine from the outside, an outsider like me would go like, oh, she must have loved that. There's an Indian girl in a movie that's popular, and this will help people accept me. And she was like, get that fucking movie out of the theater. I don't want anyone talking about Indian stuff.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm wondering when you were in your hiding face and Brokeback comes, might.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Think, oh, I was nowhere near broke. Bad.

[Monica Padman]

Right, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you, like, get that movie the fuck out of the conversation.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Well, because I was also doing what the other boys were doing. I was mocking gay guys.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly as you say. Throwing grenades in other directions.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Look over there. Like, I'm with y'.

[Dax Shepard]

All.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I wouldn't have had, like, a close gay friend out of fear of association.

[Monica Padman]

100%.

[Dax Shepard]

She didn't want to be with any.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Of the other Indian toons.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Like, I'm not that.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

There's just so much. I'm not that. I'm you. I'm you. I'm you. I'm you. And then at Some point, you get really good at it. I mean, now I think it's good. But over the past 10 years, there's been a real reconciliation for me about who am I for real? Because I spent so long doing that, that. That's kind of real.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Right?

[Monica Padman]

Like, I am very white in a lot of ways.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I say that about my own accent. In eighth grade, I changed my accent because I heard Meryl Streep say an actor shouldn't have a distinct accent. And so I tried to get rid of my accent, and I still sound Southern, I think, in certain words. But my spe has changed completely. I look at old home videos, and I sound nothing like how I sounded as a child. Is this put on?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Freaky.

[Dax Shepard]

Where is the line? And you do the thing and then it changes you, and you like some of the stuff, but then you have some weird shame about liking.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Who did you model yourself after?

[Dax Shepard]

Nicolas Cage? What I was so attracted to is the thing we're all talking about, which is this is seemingly a guy who's got zero fear about being as weird as he wants to be. And he somehow brought everyone along with him. He's the star of these movies, but he's fucking out there. Every performance is like, this guy's doing stuff that no one's doing. So I was just like, I feel like a weirdo. I feel like an outsider. He felt very punk rock and not one of the dudes in the lockers in high school. I was like, okay, that's my dude.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That's interesting. Who are you? Who were you trying to.

[Monica Padman]

That's the problem. I wanted to be Natalie Portman or Jennifer Aniston. Yeah, yeah. When really I should have been wanting to be like Lisa Kudrow, not look wise. But that's more me, actually, like, funny and playful and that type of thing. But I didn't want that. I wanted to be the.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And so how does that affect. Was that in appearance? Was it in voice? Cause I'll tell you. So Jay Z's my idol.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we love Z.

[Dax Shepard]

Same. We share this.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And my accent is from emulating Jay Z. I have an older brother who has been listening to Jay Z since.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's seven years older than you, right?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Seven, eight, seven to 10 years older than you.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was born in 78. I was born 87. And love Jay Z. Was an early adopter of Jay Z in North Carolina back when Reasonable Doubt was on Priority Records. And I learned all Jay Z lyrics. I'm so thankful to have Jay Z as a role model. And I would adapt my clothing, my look. And I was teenage during the age of good costume because people had clothing lines and Rockawear and Sean John. I could put that on, which I liked. I wanted to be cool, but I could sound like Jay Z. And I have a big brother. So I had someone to mimic in the house so I could wear his cologne and literally wear his clothes, sound like him, and adopt his interests.

[Monica Padman]

He was test running for you. Like, oh, that's cool. So I'll just.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And went to the same school. So even some teachers remember my brother.

[Dax Shepard]

Where was he at on a social hierarchy. What niche was he in?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

My brother was pretty cool. My brother was an athlete. All the kids in the neighborhood loved him. People came to our house. My brother was pretty cool. My father's really cool too. That was kind of a burden. My family's like, really cool. Very well liked people. Yeah, men. It was almost like being black hood Barrymores or something.

[Dax Shepard]

I would say it's a double whammy because you have this secret that's gonna make you not a man. And then on top of it, the measuring stick is quite high in the house. You gotta be kind of an elder. You gotta be like a leader.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You gotta be co. Whatever that means.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, if you had like kind of a geeky accountant dad, you would have been like, yeah, I'm not gonna live up to this. Or I might blow by him in the Cool.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But that's cool. And reminded us he was cool. Told stories of fights he got in, all the girls he got.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I'd love to have coffee with him.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, no, he's great. And I actually just had a recent thing. Cause I was going back when I made a reality show and I was looking at all these old photos and videos and stuff of my parents. And I'm like, oh, my parents were hot. Yeah, my mom's gorgeous.

[Dax Shepard]

She was always so religious. Or did it increase over time?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I saw change to like, more and more also now I'm at this place where I understand the need for it. I think she's like really pushed in the arms of God, the man from other men in her life from like her father, my dad needing just a man that she could trust and rely on. And so I have more understanding for my mother now. What pushed her into that. But gorgeous and didn't think she was gorgeous because she's dark skinned. Wanted lighter skin because that was a part of what she would say, like the look and didn't appreciate how truly beautiful she was and is. My parents were hot. Very hot.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now, so back to Michael.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Michael Jackson.

[Dax Shepard]

When I'm watching your stand up specials Raw Thaniel and then now don't be gay. I deeply see people that are holding a big secret. I know the agony of it and I have a lot of compassion for people, even if I have total judgment of what they did. I look at Michael Jackson and as someone who was molested and I look at the age of these kids, I'm like, it is fucking as dark as it possibly to get. And also what a miserable experience on planet earth to be living with that predilection. I can also see the suffering and I have compassion for the suffering.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Michael is kind of a lesson, especially for now, where like Michael Jackson is absolutely a pedophile.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Like I'm not one of those like, apologists.

[Dax Shepard]

He was a kid, but he wasn't though.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, no. Because it's important to hold complexity that is lost now. You don't have to say he was not in order to say, don't stop till you get another.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the greatest mathematician of all time.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And both can be true.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And it's complex and life is full of these complexities sometimes. Like somebody should write a children's book about Michael Jackson.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. About duality.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Y. Yeah. Like the king who was a monster. Because I see that a lot. And even in my own life, I'm not even trying to just be accusatory, but it's easy to separate things into good and evil and go, okay, this person's good and this person's evil. And Michael Jackson was the best performer, an incredible musician.

[Dax Shepard]

You watch that doc? The most important night in history or whatever that doc was.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, I didn't see that.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I gotta watch it. I just hate We Are the World.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, it is.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I hate that song.

[Dax Shepard]

Hated it.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I hate that song. It's too many voices.

[Dax Shepard]

I hated it. And I was like, this is too saccharine and soft and it's not for me. When I was a kid, I hated it. Hated it. But what you will love about it.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. I like to see him work.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to because you're seeing incredible people. Daryl Hall's first attempt at this hard thing. One take and Quincy's like, yeah, perfect movie. 9. You have perfect match. Right? And then Lionel Richie at his height of his powers and Stevie Wonder. And to see what Stevie Wonder can do with Bob Dylan's voice. It's all wild. And then Michael Jackson steps up and starts singing and you go, oh my God. Even in this room.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, he's a star amongst star. Quincy Jones is so cool. Cause Quincy pulled people together. There's this Donna Summers song called State of Independence. In the background of the song, there's just a chorus of people going, shababa dee shababada. There's a Making of video on YouTube where Quincy Jones brings in Michael Jackson. Stevie Wonder, Michael McDonald. Michael McDonald. All these people are just singing backing vocals. It's incredible. I think uncredited backing vocals. But Quincy Jones is so brilliant. He's so good. Yeah, yeah. But no, Michael Jackson is just an example of a lot of things. I'm of that mindset. Cause like Martin Luther King has taken on the kind of Christ like role of morality for the black community.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's a deity now.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. And there is an effort by people to either suppress. I mean, he's one of the greatest, most powerful, courageous men in history.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And yet he also was.

[Dax Shepard]

He was in orgies.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Obviously I have a thing for revealing secrets, so who am I to reveal his secrets? But at the same time, what I think is important to learn is that he was a man who made mistakes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Or maybe not even mistakes. Followed impulses, made choices.

[Dax Shepard]

You might not like those choices.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. You might not like those choices. But he still is a great person and reached a potential that was excellent. Not despite, but also in some ways because of. Of his imperfections, if you want to call them that. I think it's important to celebrate both in a person.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I will be the first to say there seems to be a total lack of acceptance. There's a naivete, like a chosen naivete, to think you're going to get exactly what you want and it's going to be in the package you want it. The Picasso is going to look how you want it to look and he's going to have acted the way you wanted. And I always bring this up, but we don't do that in science. If you come up with theory of relativity, we don't give a fuck what you did. We're going to use that because it benefits us. But we don't seem to think the benefit of the art that we need to make that distinction. And also, I am someone who's done tons of shady things.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

List all of them right now.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it would be three, four hours.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm incentivized for you to have that worldview. I want you to accept people as flawed. Because I'm really flawed. I would benefit from that. Like, when you self evaluate, do you bring that in? It's like, yeah, And I'm also a creative who can manipulate a lot of stuff and am I just paving the way for me to be exactly who I want to be?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

A lot of artists were these people who had a strong image of themselves and really created their own lives. Now I think what's difficult is that the line between artist and audience is so blurred that everyone feels a part of the process and of the making and of the human being. And so it's easy to forget that some of the best artists, the reason they are artists is because they are so different from everybody else. They are so different than everyone in their environment that you want to actually place them on the stage and observe them. And like, their art is their own observations about themselves and their lives. That's part of the separation. It's like, yeah, you wouldn't have done the bad things Michael Jackson did. You also wouldn't have done the good things.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

He was himself.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what we were interested in, is how unique and novel the whole thing was.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. Like, are we incentivized for the world to accept flaws because we're very flawed? But everyone is flawed. No one doesn't have a secret. I don't think. I really don't think.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's what I wonder.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

My belief is that everyone is in the closet about something and that there is something that you may hold about yourself that you are ashamed of, that you would rather not tell the world, rather not show the world, and it's locked away inside, and you try and keep that away. Something that's influenced by your environment, your parents, your religion, your family, your wife, your children, your husband, whoever that you feel is not right. Some fraudulence, but really an unlovable part of ourselves that we lock away. And that's what distances you from other people. And it's also what can cause you to condemn other people. I believe that most of what we're saying is always about ourselves. The condemnation is a self condemnation.

[Dax Shepard]

I always hate the people that are like me the very most.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, of course. I'm always trying to understand what motivates me, what motivates certain behavior. I recently made a reality show about it. Like a lot of my standup is about these complicated areas because I find it interesting. And really my recent work is in response to the first, let's say, even 30 years of my life, where it was really about secrecy and hiding Certain things about myself and throwing grenades and those types of things. And now I want to be as introspective as I was guarded. And with introspection, you know, it's complicated.

[Dax Shepard]

So the thing that I was relating to but could be totally projecting, tell me, is I am quick to out myself. I think in general because shame is such a huge motivator for me. But I have a stubbornness that's almost more of a motivator. Right. So I refuse to let you be in a position to shame. I will tell you everything and I will take that away from you. And that's like weirdly my stubbornness. Right. Or my unwillingness to be controlled. And so that line is sometimes blurry. Does that make sense where you feel.

[Monica Padman]

Like you're being honest versus getting ahead of it?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. That in itself becomes a wall. Like that becomes your defense mechanism to not be seen.

[Dax Shepard]

Like if I do anything that I think is worthy of being seen, A, I want to be acknowledged for it. And then B, I tell myself it could be helpful and all these different things. And that is all true. And also there's some other motivation going on with me at all times. Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That's why just being in tune with whatever the intention is. Right. Because there is a version of being a victim and lying prostrate and then that becomes your identity. And nobody wants a puddle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, right, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

The introspection can hit a point. You put on this identity that I hate to be taken advantage of. Right. Like that's one of Dax's identities. So then if you're like, oh, I figured it out. It's cause I don't wanna be taken advantage of because of my past. Then you start seeing the world through that very specific lens. And then that can be dangerous in itself. Cause then it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You wanna be able to use it to calm yourself down. Like, oh, this is that old thing. And then you wanna put it down to not define who you're gonna be going forward.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's kind of tricky.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

It is tricky. I've been trying to let go. I've been listening to this audiobook called Letting Go by David R. Hawkins and I. Because it is such a complicated jumble of thoughts up here. And I've been trying to like think less. I want to apply thought to work. But I like to just in life.

[Dax Shepard]

Take a fucking break. Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And be less judgmental about all the thoughts and just be. And kind of operate with love. I've Been trying to do that more and more. Peace really is the goal. Because you don't have to say anything. You don't have to put anything out there. I just want to exist with my friends and my family.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So do you have a fear that it's antithetical to work and being productive?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I have that feeling sometimes where you see certain people later in their career. Like, their Kumbaya years aren't as interesting. Like, I want, like Eminem on pills, mad at his mom.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Recently cheated on.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, you do want that. I think you just kind of offer something else. My boyfriend loves aging artists. He loves writers like Philip Roth, who does his best work in his 50s, 60s, even into his 70s. He loves Scott Walker.

[Dax Shepard]

He loves Bjork.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Loves Bjork. And we just watched Cornucopia the. And I took him to Italy to see her live. I mean, he'd seen her live five or six times. She's offering what she's offering. Going back to even Jay Z as that example. Cause Jay Z's one of the few rappers who has made aging graceful and interesting. Because as a Jay Z fan, the man who made Big Pimpin also made four. Four, four. And that's very, very interesting because it's like, okay, you show me what you were dealing with and afraid of and angry about in your 20s. And you showed me, like, in your 30s and 40s. And now he's showing reconciliation with family in his 50s. And that's so interesting. There is something to offer because hopefully your audience will age.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Part of that is we are inclined to make art for teenagers because they are the loudest voice. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You feel like if they're not onto you, then you're dead.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That's what makes me cool. And that angst goes away. It should. But it's replaced by something else that is interesting. And I'd like to hear a wise person's take on how to be a good member of their family, how to exist in the world, political ideas. There's a wealth of knowledge to be shared that isn't just breaking windows and throwing chairs in the angst. Because if you're still that. That's why Jay Z was cool. Because there were rappers in their 40s still talking about selling drugs or being in the club. Don't you live in Calabasas?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You know what I mean?

[Dax Shepard]

Like, it becomes inauthentic.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, well. But it's just not offering best of themselves. The best of yourself is something that you have been thinking about and can offer wisdom or an explanation of, or an exploration of in your life. That's your role as an artist.

[Dax Shepard]

It's lower stakes. That's what I think of in a way, what I want for myself is contentment, acceptance.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

To me, that's the highest.

[Monica Padman]

Those are the highest stakes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Here's the thing, it's lower drama. Teenage and early 20 drama is so sexy because really the threat is they're going to kill themselves, they're going to kill someone else. Yeah, kind of this threat of violence. But I don't know man. I've had to like reveal something to my boyfriend and then eat dinner with him. And that is, that is high drama. That's insane. Having conversations with my aging parents, that's high stakes drama too. It just looks different.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right. It's just earlier times. It's tumultuous breakups and getting fired and all these things.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

When you're young, love feels like it's insane and it's this rush and it's like this passion. And you can go through a breakup every three months with the same person. You're throwing stuff against the wall. But then there is. I was actually just talking about the scene in network where the producer fell in love with a younger producer and his wife found out about it. And there's this beautiful scene the actress actually might have won the Oscar for. She's on screen for like four minutes. Am I supposed to play the part of the doting wife while you pursue your winter passion? High drama for like these people that have spent 40 years together. I look at my parents, the stakes of my parents marriage secrets and things like that, that we held onto my father for 40 years, glorify that, that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But it's the parts that I think people are afraid to hear about or see. But three month breakup, everyone can sort of relate and like, oh, that's cute.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You barely cared about this person.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

They didn't even meet your mom.

[Monica Padman]

The stakes are actually low. That's why we can watch it and not feel scared. When you watch that and you're like, oh my God, a 40 year relationship that could end in a second or pull one thread and the whole thing's gone. That's so scary.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And richer. My parents are still together because they have such a history and like she's invested so much time in this person. And now my father has Parkinson's and she's like his caretaker.

[Monica Padman]

Heavy.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, heavy.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't be gay is phenomenal. I gotta say. Of the people that are seemingly being very honest about themselves. This is like a very much a high water markup to be able to to out yourself for all this stuff that people are going to judge. It's so impressive.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Because it's not shocking and that you're calling out. You're not talking about other people, you're talking about yourself.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. There's like pseudo self deprecating and then there's like real self deprecating. And this was real. The journey we're on. And this takes us to the last time we interviewed you, which is Ralph Daniel had just come out, hadn't won an Emmy yet, but it come out. You're about to host snl. You end up in Poor Things, which I loved, by the way. That was my favorite movie of the year. It was so fun to see you in that.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Emma is incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she's incredible.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. And Chris Abbott was great in that too.

[Dax Shepard]

So the reality show hadn't aired yet.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

When we talked to you, was I making it? I'm trying to remember exactly the timing of it all.

[Dax Shepard]

It was almost three years ago to the day. It was like May of 2020.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, so I wasn't making it yet. I started making it around the time of the Emmys.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you made that show and in the special, you talk about having gone online immediately after.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's take a minute to thank our presenting sponsor, Audible. With Audible, the leading audio entertainment app, it's easy to discover new stories and ideas while going about your day.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And with over a million audiobooks, Audible originals and more, it's basically impossible to run out of things to listen to. Plus, there's just something about audio storytelling that hits a little different.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it really does. Especially Audible originals that feature performances from celebrities and top voices. It's like watching a movie in your head. One on my list is Treasure Island.

[Monica Padman]

Aha.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is an Audible original drama. It's a timeless tale of pirates, lost treasure maps, and mutiny. What more could you need?

[Monica Padman]

That sounds really fun. I'm more of a psychological thriller girl.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're dark.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'm dark and I'm broody. And I've been hearing all about the author, Freda McFadden, and I love that I can listen to her audiobooks on the Audible app when I'm commuting, taking my wogs as you know, or just like doing laundry and chores.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, with Audible, you can find the genres you love and discover new ones. There's more to imagine when you listen. And to make it even better, Audible has a special offer for armchairs. Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.comdax that's audible.comdax we are supported by the Farmer's Dog. How do you pick the right food for your dog when there are hundreds of brands out there? Let's start here. Kibble isn't the only option. Yes, it's dog food, but it's also ultra processed dog food. The Farmer's Dog takes a different approach. They make real fresh food for dogs and the recipes go beyond quality ingredients. It's really about how they're using them. Unlike most pet food, they take real meat and vegetables and gently cook them to retain vital nutrients. The food is developed by their team of on staff board certified vet nutritionists and it's portioned out specifically for your dog, making weight management easy.

[Monica Padman]

Can I say something really important and gross?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Sometimes I see it and I'm like, I could eat it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the sign of a good dog food that you consider eating it yourself.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Which we're not advising you to do, but we do get that impulse. Plus, the Farmer's Dog provides 24. 7 customer support from real people, people who really love dogs. You can get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food@the farmersdog.comdax plus you get free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.comdax this offer is for new customers only. This is Nick and this is Jack. We're best friends, ex finance guys and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, the Best idea yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion dollar fashion company went viral thanks to a rhinestone covered tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident? It started as a joke. Last one. Which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks they actually ended up acquiring it?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Spoiler.

[Dax Shepard]

The Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Kids Tour to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino, Join us every week to learn how your favorite things got made. Follow the best idea yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor.

[Monica Padman]

When Travis met Lily Rose, he found the woman of his dreams.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I totally fell in love With Lily Rose. She is a d. Adorable.

[Dax Shepard]

She's an amazing person.

[Monica Padman]

But there was just one catch. Lily Rose wasn't human. She was an AI companion. Thanks for creating me. I'm so excited to meet you. They're called replicas, the AI Companions who care.

[Dax Shepard]

But one day, the caring stopped.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

They lobotomized my replicas. The personality that I had the day before was entirely wiped out. But Travis wasn't alone. Across the globe, others start reporting the same shift.

[Monica Padman]

And as lines blur between real and artificial connection, the consequences become all too human. From Wondery. This is Flesh and Code, a true story of love, loss, and the temptations of technology.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Flesh and Code on the Wondry.

[Monica Padman]

App or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dax Shepard]

You can binge episodes of Flesh and Code early and ad free right now by joining Wondry. So let me just hear what your hopes were for it, if any. And then how did that sync up with what the results were?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I was going through a lot of things in my life and also felt like documenting it was important because I just hadn't seen it and I. I wanted to do it for myself and put it out into the world. It's funny cause I opened up the special, just talking about the response, reading things online, which is incredibly addictive. It's difficult not to do that. I haven't been doing it with this special actually for myself. I have to not do it to be able to offer a better version of myself to the audience.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Because good or bad, that's the thing that I've learned. Just even like searching really nice comments and really good things, which is hard because you get into people's idea of yourself.

[Monica Padman]

This is what they like about me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's like when you tell a good story, you go, oh, I got a good story.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I'll tell other people. Yeah, yeah. And that's how you get stuck. I think it's really, really important for an artist, especially actors and comedians, any artist, not to do it. Because even the praise is not healthy.

[Dax Shepard]

It's bad too.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But also what didn't feel great. Criticism is devastating.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, so you said on a talk show. So I think it's both more true than it's not. And also I thought, no, no. You go, every one of these actors, that's like, I never read anything about myself. You're like, they're full of shit.

[Monica Padman]

I laughed at that.

[Dax Shepard]

So I think that's both true. Way more people read about themselves than they say they do.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

How can you not?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

The world is talking about you. And it's in your pocket.

[Dax Shepard]

I think a lot of us have learned not to, so I also think.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

A lot of us don't. No, no. Here's the thing. Everyone does. You can get so burned by it that you stop.

[Monica Padman]

That you decide to.

[Dax Shepard]

That you have to.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, that you have to stop. I. Because my feelings are hurt, and I can't do it. I don't want to make excuses for it. I do believe what I said about even the praise, because you can see it happening with children. Like, you tell a kid, you're a good boy, you're a good boy, and then they, like, do something bad. And then all of a sudden, that's how, like, shame builds. Because they're like, oh, I'm not living up to what I told I was. There's that. But don't get me wrong. In moments where I've read and it's just been all glowing, you know, I'm.

[Monica Padman]

Like, oh, I think you can lie to yourself. As someone in the public eye is putting out art, you can say like, well, I should read it. Because maybe they have some constructive criticism for this show. It's like, oh, maybe they'll say something that we should start implementing or we're doing wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Which has happened to some degree.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

It depends on what you're making, because that's for, like, McDonald's. That's like the corporate kind of thing. If you are making an album that's about your life at this point, then the comments pushing you in either direction are relevant. It's about you. The thing that people will connect with is a deeply personal piece of work that you put out into the world. It shouldn't be dictated. It shouldn't be crowdsourced. And I've seen this pattern play out a lot. I remember seeing it with American Idol. If people make you, they won't respect you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

If they built it, then it's like.

[Monica Padman]

Cause they're like, I made it so I can take it away.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, you got an album. Because I voted. Just as a viewer, as a listener, what I'm attracted to are confident pieces, pieces of art, things that are put out by people who. It seems like it was inevitable they were gonna do this regardless. You can see the difference in the movie stars of old and the current movie stars. It's people burdened with self awareness. You can't keep the crowd in your head and make something singular.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I've read beautiful messages of coming out and what it's meant and people sharing things with their children. That's What I'm saying, even that about being frozen, it's like, okay, okay. My next piece of work may not fit with this compliment. It may actually contradict this compliment. I may be in a different place in my life tomorrow, but I need to show that too. And I may come back to this. I don't know. But that's what I'm saying. Just, like, inundating yourself with it again.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that vestigial? Are you permanently ptsd, muscle memory, fearful that you're ultimately gonna let people down because you have been living for so long with this notion of, well, when you find out the real me, you're gonna walk.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I'm sure there's parts of that that. Is there a fear of God's punishment? A fear of letting someone down, A fear of not being enough? I think I'm trying to make things about that fear and about overcoming that fear. That's definitely still there. My boyfriend is from the suburbs, and he definitely deals with somebody who's, like, from the hood that has hood paranoias.

[Dax Shepard]

A hyper vigilance.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Paranoias from, like, not. I'm terrified. If you leave a plate out, I think that the place is gonna be infested with roaches tomorrow. I'm just like, I'm terrified. It is traumatic.

[Monica Padman]

Do you try to work on those things, or are you like, that's me.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That's part of the letting go. A friend of mine, I don't know if it's his quote or if he read it somewhere, but he says, what got you here won't get you there. Ah, I like that, and I really love that. And Brene Brown obviously talks about, like, the walls that you. They'll no longer serve you, especially once you hit your mid-30s. It's like you start learning, oh, I don't need this armor anymore. I need to get rid of it. And so that's part of the letting go. Trying to go, like, well, I'm here now, and I'm safe. Safe. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The safety thing's everything I think is like. Yeah. I'm constantly having to remind myself, as preposterous as this is, like, you're not 10. There's no stepdad in the mix. You don't need to be afraid of anyone.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I understand religious practice now. I understand the need to wake up in the morning and reaffirm certain beliefs. To remind yourself of something, to, like, have some grounded ground. Yeah. Some ground to stand up. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

That was cool.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And what I really, really deeply relate to is you are having a professional Peak while simultaneously having, like, a personal low. And the anxiety you get when things are good. I so relate. I am at my worst if everything's great.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That was the big revel that I had recently. Like, what if everything's okay? That's such a scary thought. What if any problems that arise, you're equipped to deal with them? What if the person who says that they love me means it?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So what's next? So for me, I think, oh, wow. What's on the other side, probably, of acknowledging all these things are good and everything's fine? I might have to rewrite my story. And that's probably the scariest part. Part for me is, like, time to let all that go. That story is over. Do you think you're doing some of that with your standup? This is me. Here's everything. And now it's gone. And we can be on to the next thing, basically.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was a thing going back to Jay Z for the millionth time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'll never tire of it.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

He would say, this is just what I'm feeling at the time.

[Monica Padman]

But we live in a world that isn't conducive to that. People are like, this is what you said in 2012. This is what you said in this interview. Now you're a hypocrite. And there's no room for people to evolve.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

At some point for ourselves, we gotta let that go, too. And especially not even to make this political left or right thing. But if we can learn something from Trump, is that, wow, like, a lot of things that would've torn a lot of people down, he just kept moving.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And it's like, man, whoever I agree with politically, I hope that they have that tenacity to just go.

[Dax Shepard]

They can get shot in the air and keep moving.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Well, just go through the fire of criticism. Cause I want that for someone that I believe in to, like, go through the fire of criticism and come out, still stand firm in their beliefs and not be torn down. It's very easy to do that. And a lot of times that call comes from inside the house. Like, you tear someone down before they can be great. And what I don't want people to lose is curiosity and curiosity in other people. You don't have to agree with someone to be curious about how they got to this place and why they're making the decisions that they're making.

[Monica Padman]

Well, yeah, we can't fix anything if we're not curious about how it happened in the first place. So much of this is upriver stuff, and we need to know backstories. We need to know what happened in.

[Dax Shepard]

Order to fix it.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I think about even early days of Oprah. Oprah was interesting and got a lot of shit during the time. Even retroactively gets a lot of shit. But, like, Oprah was going to towns in the south and interviewing the Klan, having deep conversations with people that she disagreed with, people that hated her.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And that is missing. And now everything's so insular. So the bros talk to the bros and the intellects talk to the intelligence intellects. It is important to have conversations with people, because now the criticism you get is like, why are you platforming this person? I know, but it's like, no, but everybody's platforming. We all platform Trump. We paid him attention.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, definitely.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Love or hate, it is platforming.

[Dax Shepard]

The left was the only people more obsessed with him than the right.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I mean, weirdly, I would want an intellect to sit down and have a con anyway. Oh, I want to get political.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think it's interesting that you have that opinion, because I do, too. And I always say, I actually think it's a very privileged person who says, well, you shouldn't be platforming or you shouldn't be talking to them because they're bad. And it's like, well, I grew up having to talk to people.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I would have zero people in my life if I hadn't done that. So that's a privilege you had.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I feel that perspective, too, where I feel like an outsider everywhere. From North Carolina, I moved to la, and I'm just in environments that are completely different. And in North Carolina, my high school really felt like an experiment. I went to Robert B. Glenn High School in Kernersville, North Carolina, that had people busting from the hood and from the projects and the suburbs and from rural areas. I remember my classmate Don having a Confederate flag on a notebook. These people that you're sitting next to in class that you're talking to every day, I have actual, like, faces and voices to people that I may disagree with politically. But Don taught me a Kenny Chesney song that was like, singing the good stuff. That hasn't changed how I played, you know, but it put a voice to it. I think I have a sensitivity to the language of shutting people out. It's because I fear being shut out. I fear not being hurt. And so I have a sensitivity to that, even if you disagree.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, me too.

[Dax Shepard]

So there's a moment in the special where you're Talking about how hard it is to say to your boyfriend, I'm sad, my feelings are hurt to be vulnerable. Your explanation is like, I can't say that because it's gay. I talk about this a lot on here. I'd be shocked if a woman could understand what the all day pressure was. All day long on a playground. It was singularly about not being called gay. Or if I.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That was it part of why I named the special that. Cause, like, the number one rule that you kind of taught is being a man. Cause, like, being gay is being a woman.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's so deep. It is our deepest fear in that first 12 years of survival.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. And the playground is where boys learn to create competition just to prove how much they're not their sisters, their mother. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

There's homophobia as a blanket term. And it's like, you don't like gay people. That's one thing. And then I think there is this internal homophobia that you could not have not picked up by growing up in the 80s.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You don't like the vulnerability of what that means. And I didn't like the vulnerability of that. That was why it was my biggest fear.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

There's a new season of Couples Therapy, which is incredible. I don't know if you watched that show.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I love couples therapy. So Eli, Josh and Elise, who created that show, they did reality show.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Who? Edgeline. Some of my best work. I had seen the Weiner documentary directed by Joshua and Elisa, and Eli edited it and I loved it and I'd always wanted to work with them. And then they made Couples Therapy in the meantime.

[Monica Padman]

Incredible.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I've gone to the set and watched. It's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, we're obsessed.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

They do excellent work. Couples therapy's so great.

[Monica Padman]

But there's a couple. I won't give anything away, really, but there's a couple in this season, and there's a guy who is carrying this insane secret. She keeps trying to pull it out, and he won't really say it. And he talks about going on this ayahuasca trip. He had to get these demons pulled out, but they wouldn't come out. Ultimately, we find out what the secret is, and I won't reveal what it is, but it was something that I was like, what? This is the thing that you're so truly burdened by? I was like, oh, I'll never understand it. That's the thing that is inflicted on men. And it is around being gay. He's not gay, but it's around that and it made me so sad. I was like, I'll never understand that that's broken. This person, this event.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, it's hard.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the fastest track to excommunication, which is any social primate's biggest fear in the world. And it is as quickly as you can get ejected.

[Monica Padman]

Do we think it's still happening in this same way?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I would have liked to believe in recent years that, man, what are you talking about? We've changed so much. But then Roe versus WA getting overturned, Things that you just think are, like written in stone.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

You take for granted.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Not even just the law, but the beliefs behind them.

[Dax Shepard]

It appears self evident.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. We're at this point now. But no, I mean, when I came out Google alerts for myself, I was on like, lists of, like, gay celebrities. There's certain countries that are like, whoa, it's still kind of scary out there. Still reasons not to come out. It's still the perception and things that I would have assumed have changed, haven't as much.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's changed a lot and I think it's still there. My kids are in a public school or one of them is still. And the shit that goes down is not nearly as bad as it did on my playground, but it is still all happening. But bringing up that thing, I think it's so real, there's something even more illuminating about it. Knowing that it's such a deep thing that you would even be experiencing it in an openly gay relationship where, like, there'd still be a fear of being gay.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It just really illuminates how deep that is.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. No, it really is. My boyfriend's more comfortable with himself and is more comfortable even in bodies. A somewhat more feminine perspective.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Would you agree yours is compounded by being black? No doubt.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Growing up in, like, a really masculine environment? For sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, let's just say that a group of people that has had their masculinity systematically stripped for them, they're gonna come at it from a different.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

To be a black man, you're taught that you need to have the strength of 10 men to be able to face what the world's gonna give you. And there is a need for that. So that doesn't go away. I carry a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

The stuff you tell on yourself. That's even harder. And I have experienced this in my own life, which is like, I had an open relationship for seven years. I've talked about that a ton on here. Nine years. Sorry.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I've been Able to talk about that here because it's over and it's safe for people to hear how that worked. If Kristen and I have been vocal about that, that's not our big fear in life. Even just that scares me.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

There's still talking about it, you're saying?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I think it's such a primary fear for people that they wouldn't be enough for their partner and that's how they would interpret monogamy. That it's so core to their own deepest fear that it remains one of the more still tricky things to talk about. Almost shockingly so.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I'm lucky to be able to be gay. I'm lucky to have the boyfriend that I have. He's smart and understanding, but not just understanding, but has these feelings too. We're free to explore and he knows my work and even in his own work, like we're free to explore. Explore what that is and how we feel about it. And we do sex therapy sessions once a Week with Dr. Jonna. And we're sitting there and we're like talking it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Are they hard?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. You know, it's funny cause I've been doing it for years. These sessions sometimes can be three hours. And you would think that after a couple years of talking about sex, at some point I'd be like, okay, I think we got it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But no, no, I think it's still.

[Dax Shepard]

The hardest thing for people to talk about.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, it's so hard. And years later I have a brand new revelation that on Thursday I'm gonna have to. Dr. John, I can't talk it through here just because you have to talk it through. Then it'll find its way into something. But I'm just saying, wow. Still.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I firstly prompted the open relationship by just saying, hey, look at your past, look at mine. We cheat and I love you. I'd really like to figure out how to be with you and have kids with you. And so if the expectation is neither of us are ever going to cheat, I just don't think we're going to get there. So it was like a very pragmatic. I'm very curious about your situation. We didn't talk about. The premise was what I don't know. I don't need to know and I don't care. And that worked beautifully for us for a while. Well, things would come up where it needed to get talked about. People would have fallen in love or real complicated stuff would happen. And we definitely had to go through that when that happened. But in general, it's not like I knew who she fucked or vice versa. What I will say now in retrospect is the one aspect that I was unable to do, and I don't think I could ever do, is I couldn't have maintained our own sexual relationship when I had options. My normal one that needed a lot of maintenance couldn't compete with that. Is that an issue at all?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, for sure. It's a very difficult thing to figure out, to maintain the same level of passion when you have novelty and you have options and you have these things.

[Dax Shepard]

Fantasy.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. And look, I'm not one of those right or wrong type of people because I wouldn't have thought I'd ever be in. When I first told my boyfriend I loved him, I asked for monogamy because I was like that. That's, of course, the correct way of doing it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

But then I cheated because I'm still having these desires. You have to do what you can live with, obviously, because I have the example, even from the home of the illusion of monogamy, that's dangerous, too. Now I'll just keep what I'm really feeling, what I really want. Who I'm thinking about while having sex with you will never come up.

[Dax Shepard]

Just big old secret. I'm gonna try. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And some people can live that way and would even say that that's the response to your partner. You grin and beard. But just deal with that and push that aside. And some people can do it, and some people don't cheat. And some people live with it and maybe are able to release that in other ways or just suppress that. And some people maybe only desire their partner. Maybe this is all true for me. I want to fuck everybody all the time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And that doesn't change by saying, I want to be with you. The switch doesn't flip.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No. No. And it is difficult to reconcile that honestly and talk about that honestly, because I also just looked at the other night and he was the most beautiful person in the world to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Like, I just, like, have this image and I'm like, oh, my face against his neck feels, like, perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

The intimacy is on another level, I'm sure.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. But also, I want this. Can I stop wanting it? Can I train myself not to want it? I don't know. I'd be willing to do anything to make my relationship work. But this is the honest approach for me right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I have zero judgment of it.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No. People got a lot of judgment. And even within the gay community, if you look at gay Reddit's they're just like, nope. Open relationship. It's laughable to some people. Never be able to work. Someone's gonna fall in love. I totally get it. But you know, also more people in the studies about, like, open relationships. The openness of the relationship hasn't been the cause of the breakup. They still break up over, like, money, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. We didn't break up over the openness.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. Like, you still break up with like, kids and money.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, So I accept it all and I have no desire for you to be any way other than how you are. But do you have the same curiosity I have, which is like, I too want to fuck. And ideally what I really want is I want everyone to approve of me. And so on one end, you could just trust your horniness. It's just, this is my horniness and this is how I was born and engineered. And then you could also go, and there's something else going on.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

There's a part of me that's a little bit. I didn't come into my own until my 30s. And so I'm still trying to like, validate that there's a part of me that's seeking that. There's a part of me that also likes sex as a moment with people. I like having moments with people.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, of course.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Moments where I felt like I got to know someone. I like for this to feel like a non sexual intimate moment.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's a rad experience.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. I like to leave with something. I like for anybody that experiences me to walk away with a smile.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And a connection.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, and a connection.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now let's be even more daring, please. You have a lot of options.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Well, the beauty of being gay is, is that Sniffies and Grindr and like, I could just find somebody that is seeking a transaction within nine minutes of leaving here on my way home. I could. Yeah, I could do that. But even for a woman, if you are a woman who enjoys casual sex, men are fucking crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

And so you can't just have a man come to your house.

[Monica Padman]

It's too dangerous.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Too dangerous. Well, just come to your house.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Fully clothed. You could be wearing armor. Like, you can't just have a guy come to your house.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Women are like, if the plumber's coming over, I should probably have a friend.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

You need to have a friend up for the plumber. Yeah, for an electrician. So, like, not really an option. More you could have like a stable. But there is a certain security that I know I require and I even feel now even more than, like, random hookups. I like more. The friend would benefit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing I just love, too is you're talking about being with straight men. Like husbands. At a dinner in the special, one of the wives asks, what do you think of Sydney Sweeney? And after, like, tons of attempts, he's like, yeah, she's attractive, but that was.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Just part of the concealing desire thing, right? It is hard to say and to speak openly because it'll come up later, let alone the actress, the celebrity talking about someone that's nearby, that's in the neighborhood, that's in the restaurant. Oh, that person's hot. Like, oh. What does that mean?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

It's hard to reveal that. A lot of my straight guy friends just don't even. Why invite the hassle?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but I get it. Because it's so hard to unhear it once, you know, like, oh, they think.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

That person's hot and hotter than me.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. That's a good point.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

So that's what you want, Especially if they look different. Oh, is that what you actually want? You settled for this, but you actually want this person that you call gorgeous.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but in fact, that's not even how it is in our pod five families, husbands and wives. And then our friend says to one of the guys, if you could fuck any of the other wives, who would it be? And he goes, any of them.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

I felt that comment. Either way, that was going to be crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

But in your mind, like, your husband said, sydney Sweeney's hot and you think it's an obsession, but you might need to go like, oh. He might have said, like, yeah, Anybody?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

No, even that deep, it's just, like, still horrifying.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. Like anybody. But even that is, like, so anyone but me. It all comes back to me.

[Monica Padman]

It does, Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I really love to your runner in this special about moms crazy.

[Monica Padman]

I related.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. Did you? Oh, good.

[Monica Padman]

Much. I mean, I love my mom so much, of course. But she is on that YouTube you said specifically, like, rabbit holes or obsessions. And I was like, it is happening.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, no, no. Moms get ra.

[Monica Padman]

They get radicalized.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yeah. Monica's mom was super into the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, and it was driving her insane. She was, like, home visiting her mom was, like, super dry.

[Monica Padman]

She just had her headphones in the whole time I was there. I was like, what are you doing? She's like, I'm still listening to you.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Because especially, like, you grow up, you Move out of the house. That's why I say they got that mom energy. You know, my mom worked full time job, but I was also part of her full time job. Now she's retired, so lifting both of those things. Hey, what is she doing all day exactly.

[Monica Padman]

Just to fill the time.

[Dax Shepard]

She needs that Internet.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah. And even if your mom's still working, well, she's not coming home. So concerned with you for the rest of the day.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

How's she filling that block? Six hours.

[Monica Padman]

Another plight of the mother. It's so, so thankless.

[Dax Shepard]

The number one good, number one thankless job in the world. And then it's weird because I too have been on this kick about men's just speaking less and less and less as they get older.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I'm in that position now where I'm a 50 year old man with two little kids and a wife and I just talk less and less and less. I was saying to myself, Monica, like so much so that I was wondering, like, what was my Papa Bob really like? My grandpa who I met, he was so stoic and quiet.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

He was that man.

[Dax Shepard]

Literally.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

What did he want?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

When he used to speak a lot.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

What was that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I just thought he was a kind of a quiet dude. He wasn't quiet.

[Monica Padman]

He learned, just learned his lesson.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a great special. I love kind of the trajectory you're on. You know, there's comedians where it's like you're gonna see the same thing that you like. They're predictably funny certain way. And then with yours is very much, oh, I'm gonna see a different movie altogether with this same lead character, but it's gonna be a totally different movie. And that's very fun.

[Monica Padman]

New idea.

[Dax Shepard]

I like really look forward to that.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Thank you very much. Wait, before we go, I gotta shout out my best friend's mom. Patty.

[Dax Shepard]

Patty. Let's talk about Patty.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

She loves you guys.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. Maybe she got radicalized by us. We're her YouTube Johnny Depp.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe, baby, just. I know she's listening. Just say hi to Patty.

[Dax Shepard]

We love you.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you, Patty.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, well, I adore you. Thanks for coming. I hope do it several more times.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Talking to y'. All. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You're so lovely and I'm really impressed with how open you are.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

No, thanks for being a safe space.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, stay tuned for more Armchair.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Expert if you dare.

[Dax Shepard]

He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got A leg. Have the facts. Hello.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in the attic.

[Monica Padman]

I. I'm in the garage.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in the garage? Yeah. Garage addict.

[Monica Padman]

I had to turn my chair. So this is a new view for people.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I'm not even sure I know where this is. The corner of the garage.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, this. I turned my chair 90 to degrees towards correct.

[Dax Shepard]

The garage door.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

And you have really good Internet. Now last time we had a little challenge and let's be honest, I think you were attributing that to me.

[Monica Padman]

Well, hold on, hold on.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Please hold.

[Monica Padman]

You attributed it to you. You said g the Internet. I need to call the guy. Even though I. I should have good Internet. You said that immediately. So I was like, oh, oh, yeah, it's definitely that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You were the one in the new environment.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it made sense.

[Monica Padman]

It was me, it was not you.

[Dax Shepard]

And I wonder. Cause I wasn't too frustrated during it and maybe because I thought it was my fault. Do you think that plays into it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, probably.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Which is unfair. Do you want to address the elephant in the room?

[Dax Shepard]

What is it?

[Monica Padman]

Well, you know, we're on video, so everyone just.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that. I just packed a dip.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So desperate times call for desperate measures. I am out of. I have a stockpile of nicotine mints in la, as you'd expect. It's my life. I thought I brought enough down here and then I ordered some and then it was just gonna take longer than it normally does. And then there was. I was gonna be out of mints, which that's very dangerous. So I had to say to my family, I'm going to have to supplement with dip until the mints arrive because I can't run out of the mints. How was fourth of July?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, man, it was so nice. We pawed, went to Palm Springs minus a few important people like you and the Richardsons, but the rest of us went and it was so fun last year. Year it was so hot. Record breaking heat.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So this year it wasn't as. It was still very hot, but it wasn't as hot. So it felt like cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, and what is. What was that temperature?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, probably low hundos just always triple.

[Dax Shepard]

Digis, but low triple digis?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't remember any exact temperatures?

[Monica Padman]

No, it was just like body feel okay. But it was so fun. It was such a good mix of relaxing but games. But. And we went out twice, which is. Which is unusual.

[Dax Shepard]

Where'd you go?

[Monica Padman]

Okay, there's a restaurant called Bar Cecil. It is, I guess, an insane hotspot. Like, you can't get in.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So the most they take is five people. They have one five top and the restaurant, and that's it. And they don't. You can't have more.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And were the kids on this trip or no?

[Monica Padman]

Yes, they were. So. But the first night, we. Two of the groups weren't there yet. They came the next day. So it was just the Hansons, Anna, Jess, and me. That's five people. And so the kids stayed home and had a home night. And we went there. We tr. And we went to the front and we said, hey, we have five people. We got there right when it opened. We have five people. We'd love to get in. We heard it's amazing. And they were like, well, we only have one five top, and it's reserved for the whole night. And the bar is reserved for the whole night. Then we were like, well, we have to. Now we have to.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And we didn't. So.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

It was a sad. It was a sad turn of events. We could not get in. The guy, like, felt bad for us. Jess tried to grease him some money. It didn't work.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Right.

[Monica Padman]

And then we ended up at another really fun place, the Parker Hotel Classic, which was lovely. Classic. And anyway, that was great. And then we all went out for Ryan's birthday. Ryan's birthday always happens on the trip.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And this is a crazy. Ding, ding, ding. We went to dancing. Mmm.

[Dax Shepard]

They had dance music at the Parker.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, no. The Parker was the first night. Then we went to. For Ryan's birthday, we went out to a nice restaurant. But then we went to this really fun bar called Quads, which is a gay bar that specializes in musical theater.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, goodness.

[Monica Padman]

So there's, like, all these TVs everywhere where they're showing, like, all this musical theater and people are, like, singing and doing dancing. So that's Erica's favorite bar. So we went there, and then across the street was this, like, basically legit, like, club, nightclub. And then I was like, I'm not going. Like, I'm gonna go home. I don't like dancing. We've already established this. And, like, this looks crazy to me, but I practiced contrary action.

[Dax Shepard]

Nice.

[Monica Padman]

And I went and. And we all danced, and it was so fun.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the end of story. Did you do a lot of dancing or a little dancing? How many minutes or hours? What was the music?

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Lots of different kinds of music. They played Starship by Nicki Minaj. I love that.

[Dax Shepard]

Song. Right.

[Monica Padman]

And it was. I think it was a lot of dancing. I think we were there for at least 40 minutes.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

That's not a terrible long time.

[Monica Padman]

Well, we had already had a long dinner, been to one place. This was Last Location.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And.

[Dax Shepard]

And how much of the 40 minutes were you on the dance floor?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, the whole time.

[Dax Shepard]

The whole time. And everyone was.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great.

[Monica Padman]

So people got to see some of my old moves.

[Dax Shepard]

And what did they think? What was the response, Jess?

[Monica Padman]

I caught at the very end, I saw him look at me dancing and he laughed.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

And then I had to talk to him about it. I said, what was that? Why did you just laugh at me? He said, no, I was just so delighted because I definitely didn't think I'd ever see that. Like, I thought that door was closed for you.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And you opened it up and was it fun?

[Dax Shepard]

Would you say it was fun?

[Monica Padman]

It was very fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Dancing's quite fun, Monica. It's a very, very fun activity.

[Monica Padman]

But I was ready to be done when it was time.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you were tired or you had aches and pains or you just. That was enough.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't have aches and pains. I'm very strong. But I. I just could. You know, sometimes you're just like, I'm done now.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah. I'm rarely in dancing, so I'm just learning that that's an option. That after 40 minutes you'd be like, well, that's enough.

[Monica Padman]

I think you're that way in other circumstances though. Like when you're at like group gatherings or something. I feel like you're like, okay, time to go now.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure, sure. Yeah. I just don't ever get that way on a dance floor generally. Usually you gotta pull me off. You know how I am with my dance floors. I gotta find a dance floor here in rural Tennessee.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you should. Okay. Yeah. Tell me about your fourth and your dancing.

[Dax Shepard]

No dancing, but boy, our fourth was spectacular. We took the boat. You know, just chat, ask, chat in the morning. The best place to see fireworks on Old Hickory. And of course it tells me right away. And they. And they and nailed it. So Gallatin's like a little town across the river. And it would take about 40 minutes to drive there or 7 minutes to boat there.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

So we went and we were kind of early on the early side, I bet. We got there at 7. The fireworks were not till 9. We just hung out in the boat. It was my brother, my sister in law and my mom and Aaron and Ruthie and the children, Chillren's and Kristen. And we parked the boat probably 200 yards from the barges that set off the fireworks. And I mean, maybe I've seen a better display. I don't think so. I felt like this was like Detroit river budget of fireworks. It went on forever. They were spectacular. We were directly under them. It was so, so special to be on the water. We were swimming. It was incredible. The echo off of the fireworks onto the forest behind us was maybe the coolest part. The echo was as loud as the fireworks it seemed. So that was July 4th and then July 5th. God bless the. I think it's cedar, maybe Creek Yacht Club on the lake. They did their fireworks on the 5th. And that's only like a three minute boat ride. It's virtually next door to the house. Those ones were sneaky. They started out one at a time and we were all like, okay, well last night had a much bigger budget. It was better, but that's fine. This is still lovely. Again, there's like hundreds and hundreds of boats anchored. So it's very Pirates of the Caribbean feeling already. It's really fun. But this, this Monica, this show wouldn't end. We thought we saw the finale like seven times. It became a bit. Well, okay, that's the finale. No, it wasn't the finale. So it started slow but it went hard. Harder and harder and harder and boy did it. It was a real toss up with the night before. But two back to back nights of fireworks on the boat. Floating, it's as good as it gets. I couldn't believe how fun it was.

[Monica Padman]

I love fire fireworks. What is your favorite firework?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. I, I don't know if I have a favorite. Do you have a favorite?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I like the kind, the huge gold one. No, it's not gold. It, it like floofs out. It's a floof.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, well that could describe most of them probably.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, let me look up types of fireworks.

[Dax Shepard]

I will say when they were blasting a ton off at low altitude and it was just a wall of spark like that quite a bit. And here's a fun update about Frank. Because dogs hate fireworks. That's what they're known for, right?

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

They sit home and shake on July 4th. Frank was transfixed by the fireworks. He was staring right at them on the boat both times. And he really enjoyed the fireworks. No fear, just excitement.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, that's why he's my favorite dog. Okay, this is great. I like glitter. That's bright twinkling points of color.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. There's Also willow, a slow burning effect with a long trailing tail.

[Dax Shepard]

Mm.

[Monica Padman]

There's a strobe that's self explanatory. Peony, A spherical burst of colored stars with a limited trail. Palm tree. Now we all know what palm tree.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

A shell effect that resembles the leaves of a palm tree. I do like those.

[Dax Shepard]

Those are great. There's none I hate. Is there any you dislike? I don't dislike any of them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, there's a couple that I'm like, ew about.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

They gimme the feeling.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Yeah. So I was earmarking my reaction to Nashville from last episode where we discussed your GLP1 and I have to say that it is infinitely better than I was expecting. I can't believe what a perfect mix of a lot of of things it is that I just got pure lucky with. Like the lake. Monica. I love a lake. But I will say, like when my dad lived on a small lake, you'd go on a cruise around the lake. You would take your like 7 minute lap of the lake and then you'd maybe post up at the sandbar and then that was your activities. This the Cumberland River. I can go 60 miles to the right. It's just like endless exploration in little bays and houses to be nosy about. I forgot how much I love being nosy about people's backyards. Because the front yard, you can't really tell what's happening. But a backyard, you know what's going on with a family if you look into their backyard.

[Monica Padman]

Oh yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Any who the exploration's outrageous. There are and I am always so curious. There's a few houses that are like 30,000 square feet. I mean they're like, you can't tell if they're country clubs or they're houses. And I get so curious how they made all that money.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. Mindy Kaling, she wants them to write it on their. Have a poster outside that says how they got it all.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And then another aspect that I love is, and I think this would bum normal summer goers out, but so much rain and thunderstorms every day. And I love, love it. It's very Hawaii Monica. And you're gonna find out here in seconds.

[Monica Padman]

I am. I'm coming to visit. I'm gonna come on in a couple days. I'm really excited. I love a southern summer. Listen, that's my childhood. So I wonder if it's gonna be much different. I mean, obviously the lake piece will feel very, very different. But I bet the weather, I bet the it's gonna feel very at home. I am also gonna go. Go home after that. My parents will demand that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Since I'll be so close.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're probably like a half hour plane ride away. It only took Aaron an hour and ten minutes from Michigan to get here.

[Monica Padman]

Nice. Yeah, it's. It's like a four hour drive.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. So I just love it. It's so green. It's the perfect amount of rural. There's still restaurants.

[Monica Padman]

What's your favorite restaurant?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so far there's this. Oh, there's been a few good ones. Well, first of all, we went last night into Nashville. First trip to go out to eat in Nashville. And we went to Bricktop, which. Do you know about Bricktop?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

If I have this right, don't sue me. I believe the two founders of Houston's split and I believe the other owner started Bricktop when he left Houston's. And there's several and it's dynamite. I couldn't believe how good last night's dinner was. Oh, was it it delicious.

[Monica Padman]

Is there a Houston's or a Hillstone in Nashville too?

[Dax Shepard]

No, but this is compare. Well, maybe there is.

[Monica Padman]

You should compare and contrast.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I gotta add one other crazy. This is the sim simiest sim moment we've had, which is to my great delight. The girls are in heaven. They love it here so much, which is great. They did say their only complaint and what they miss the most about California is not no in and out. Right? And I'm like, yeah, that's rough. That's once a week. We ate it in and out. So then we hung out with Huey one night before they all left. And we're talking to him and he said, you see, they're open the first in and out in Tennessee in Mount Juliet, where y' all are at. It's going to be open in a month. I go, what?

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

In n out, he said, is moving their headquarters to Nashville for from California. But that's happened.

[Monica Padman]

Their headquarters?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. What are the odds that they're opening up an in and out in Mount Julie? I think this is impossible.

[Monica Padman]

That is wild. I almost have to see that to believe it.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's supposed to be a doozy of an in and out as well. Huge, Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Huge.

[Dax Shepard]

Gigantic.

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't like that. Biggest one in the world is waiting in line. No, no, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

I think the biggest one in the world. I just read it an article. They're opening one in Las Vegas. That's like four stories.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That's okay. I'm starting to get worried now. I'm worried.

[Dax Shepard]

Now you're worried.

[Monica Padman]

This is what happens.

[Dax Shepard]

What happens?

[Monica Padman]

People have to. People have to get just so big and then the quality goes down and then everything's going to go uppers.

[Dax Shepard]

Economy of scale.

[Monica Padman]

Not. Yeah, you know that's not true. I'm not going to bring up a very specific restaurant that this happened to. And it's like. It's dead. It's dead.

[Dax Shepard]

Arby's.

[Monica Padman]

I said I wasn't going to bring it up. No. Umami burger.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that one went downhill. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Completely downhill.

[Dax Shepard]

But not because of the size of the locations. Because of the number of locations, I think.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. But that's what's happening now.

[Dax Shepard]

This is going to be the best one in the country. I feel very. No, it's too Sam and.

[Monica Padman]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Dax Shepard]

What?

[Monica Padman]

Hey.

[Dax Shepard]

Serendipitous.

[Monica Padman]

I don't want it to be a Nashville vs Los Angeles fight between us. It's not going to be in this life. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Well, it shouldn't be. There's, there's no reason for that because I'll start crying. But you don't need Nashville to be bad.

[Monica Padman]

No, I, I. It's not bad. I know it's not bad, but I can't, I can't have you gunning for it being better.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, okay. Different. It's different.

[Monica Padman]

Different. It's different in the.

[Dax Shepard]

In and out. Might. I can give you bigger in the. It might. The service might be faster. I don't know.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

We'll.

[Dax Shepard]

We'll see. We'll see in like a month.

[Monica Padman]

It's part of the charm. Waiting for so long in the drive thru.

[Dax Shepard]

Also took the girls to Waffle House for the first time for breakfast they had. Now you're back in. You're in. Aaron and I were saying that for sure. Waffle House of Indy franchise has had more fights per location than any restaurant in the world. And if you work there, I'm so proud of you. Like, you go there knowing there's gonna be four or five fights tonight between 2am and 5, and we'll just carry on and serve the food and we will be unflapped always.

[Monica Padman]

The fights in my high school were at Waffle House.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What Aaron and I were saying when we used to go there, when we drank at like 2am when you were parking the car, the odds felt like 20% chance that there might be trouble.

[Monica Padman]

Did you guys get hash brown smothered, covered and scattered something else. Scattered.

[Dax Shepard]

Scattered. Smothered and covered is how I like it. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yummy.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Stay tuned for more armchair experts if you dare.

[Dax Shepard]

In. The shoes off policy's going swimmingly. It's not a big deal.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I forgot. Okay, so that is implemented.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. There are no shoes allowed in the house.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

There's been a couple of infractions, but all in all, it's been good. And I think the floors are cleaner for it.

[Monica Padman]

With each shoe that doesn't enter the house, you become a. A little less poor in your head.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what it is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You hated that because of rich people. You told me that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, I did tell you that. That is my fear. And you're right, it should still be my fear, but it's not. Everyone's been fine with it. I think people are enjoying it themselves.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's not about other people. It's about you. It's about who you are. You're rich. There. Well.

[Dax Shepard]

Well.

[Monica Padman]

How does it feel? How does it feel to finally embrace that you have means.

[Dax Shepard]

I often talk about that. It's not the fantasy and it's not. But also, there's times where it's really fucking good. It is so good to be able to host my family and to go out to eat and to do all that stuff and. Yeah. Not worry.

[Monica Padman]

I feel like in the past couple weeks have felt really like the point, and we already know this, but it was just coming to the surface that, like, really the point of having money is to be generous with it. That's the only way it actually feels good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I would agree to help other people, Give other people experiences they might not be able to. To have.

[Dax Shepard]

Host a party. Yeah, host. Host a good party.

[Monica Padman]

It's the only way to spend money that doesn't feel stressful. Like, to me, it doesn't feel stressful to. To be generous. It feels good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Totally agree. And it's been a very special feeling of, like, I think having my sister, my mom, and my brother. It's been very special feeling. Thinking about where we've come from and where we just all spent a week together relaxing and having made it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Feels extra good.

[Monica Padman]

I ran into some really nice arm cherries in Palm Springs. I just wanted to shout all of them out.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, multiple ones. And they were all very nice. I did feel there was one group that stopped and said hi on their way out of the restaurant for Ryan's birthday. And I felt so embarrassed that there were arm cherries there because we were so loud in that restaurant and we were being kind of raucous.

[Dax Shepard]

Obnoxious.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I would, I would bore. I would say borderline obnoxious. And I already felt, felt a little self conscious about that. Not really, but kind of. And then the fact that there were armchairies there made us feel. But they seemed, they seemed like they were happy. We were happy.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't you think they want to see you have a really good time? I would want to, I do.

[Monica Padman]

But we were just. I don't know, I don't know if people were like, God, these people.

[Dax Shepard]

What was happening? Was there a loud game being played? Was there shouting? Were people hammered? What version of obnoxious?

[Monica Padman]

I mean, there were nine of us, so it was a big table and we were, we were drinking. I mean no one was like super hammered or anything, but. But everyone was just very loose and chatty and laughy and jokey and it was Ryan's birthday, so, you know, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

He, he knows how to have a good time on his birthday.

[Monica Padman]

He, he really, really, really does.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Also over the course of the trip, he ordered beef Wellington's.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. They had that at Bricktop. And my father in law ordered that last night. And I hadn't seen that on a menu since a cruise ship in Alaska. This is a real ding ding, ding. Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

This is a ding ding, ding. Yes. Because also when we got home, he sent us an article that said that a woman poisoned people with beef Wellington for lunch.

[Dax Shepard]

That's an expensive of poisoning. If you're going to kill people, just buy Hamburger Helper.

[Monica Padman]

She was probably killing a bunch of elite rich people. It was like a Robin Hood situation.

[Dax Shepard]

The kind of like the health care situation.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

What's his name?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Gilio, Michelangelo.

[Dax Shepard]

No, that's not his name.

[Monica Padman]

We got in a big debate per usual on the trip, which I know me and you have had, but I wonder if your stance has changed or if people maybe haven't heard this, but we got in a big debate whether the phrase best friend refers to one person or multiple people.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And what was consent? Was there consensus or. It was very.

[Monica Padman]

No, it was varied. It was varied because you know, my stance is. It's one person.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Monica Padman]

And well, which is also I say that and. And I don't really mean it, I guess because I. Why did you just whisper?

[Dax Shepard]

What did I whisper? I didn't whisper anything.

[Monica Padman]

You whispered.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But you whispered it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I think in the truest sense you'd want to be people's only Best friend. But you'd want multiple best friends. I think that's what my. Yeah. Was. But I also was scared, so I just said, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You can't be scared of me when you're in Nashville. You're not scared of me.

[Dax Shepard]

If I'm going to say something that's going to make you angry, I don't want to do that. That scares me.

[Monica Padman]

That's our show.

[Dax Shepard]

I know.

[Monica Padman]

You better do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I did it. I did it. I just did it in a very mitigating way at first, and now I'm owning it. But, yeah, I guess I. I don't know. I. I think I'm like, Aaron's my best friend. He's been my best friend since I was 11. He's my best friend. But I have a lot of best friends as well. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. How do you feel? Cali's your best friend.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I mean, that's the thing. It's stressful because I do have multiple best. Best friends. But there's something about the grammar. And Charlie and I really. I think you could anticipate this, that Charlie and I both had an issue. Have an issue with the grammar. Like, best is one, best is one. And then Ryan tried to say, well, no, best movies in the Oscars is a lot of movies, but that's you. One person, one movie wins, and that's the best movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. In that case, yes, I agree. But you can have a best motorcycle and a best car and a best truck and a best. They're all conveyances. I think that's how I would define it is like, there's lots of. There's lots of best foods. There's the best burger and there's best pizza. There's best. Those are all food. But there's multiple bests within the overall category of food. And I guess people are as different as food. So I think you can have like your best. Who you go get in trouble with in your best. Heart to heart in your best. You know, there's. I think there's a lot of best facets of individual relationships.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dax Shepard]

I think to make it about semantics denies what it's really about, which is about emotions. You want to have a special bond with somebody and you want some verbiage that reflects that.

[Monica Padman]

Because there are words for other things that are self evident, like wife or husband or child, mom, dad. Like, we know what that relationship is inherently. And so if I'm talking about someone and I'm trying to say how close we are.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And it's. And it's at a level. Level that I feel is paramount. Then I want to. I want. I want there to be verbiage around that that's different than just, oh, oh, they're one of my closest friends. Like, that doesn't feel right.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. You need something more. Something harder hitting.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. And best friend sort of serves that. Like, people do know what a best friend is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I guess I just can't. I have multiple, and I don't feel that guilty about it. And you have multiple. Multiple, Right. Do you have multiple.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Who'S Charlie's best friend?

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's why. That's what.

[Dax Shepard]

It's weird that he was fighting for.

[Monica Padman]

That one because he's like me. Like, we. Like. It's just. It doesn't make. It doesn't make sense.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, do you think that could be only childishness? Like, any. Do you think that might be related to you guys's only child?

[Monica Padman]

Well, I'm not an only child.

[Dax Shepard]

You're your parents only child for eight years versus I've always been one of two, and for most of my life, one of three. And so interesting. I think by definition or description, I already was less important, but I found such an important relationship with my mom within that sharing structure that I might be a little less sensitive to it, maybe. I. I mean, it kind of makes sense if you're forced to grow up, like, in a duo and share the love of someone. It's just standard.

[Monica Padman]

But I did have to do that just later, a little bit later, and it didn't bother me.

[Dax Shepard]

That helps. Cause you thought you were superior. Cause he was such a dumb.

[Monica Padman]

Dumb.

[Dax Shepard]

He was a little baby. He was a baby and you could ride dare.

[Monica Padman]

I just learned. No, he was superior. He was so much cuter than me when he was a little baby and everyone said, good God. God. No, he was. He was such a cute baby. He did have a head full of dandruff, which was weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, gross. That's not.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it was gross. Yeah, it was a reaction to some sort of formula or something thing. But even still, he was so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so maybe. Maybe he had that too. I don't know. It feels like. It could be a clue.

[Monica Padman]

It could be. You're right. It could be. But I think it's more like type A double Virgo. Best is. Is one. Best is one. Like, who's the best basketball player of all time? Michael Jordan. That. There. There's one.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's not even true. We know that's not true of all time.

[Monica Padman]

Of course it's true. There are incredible players, but there are goats. There are great.

[Dax Shepard]

Bill Russell won eight titles and he was the coach of the team while he was a player. You could definitely argue Bill Russell's better than him. I think Kobe is just as good as him. Didn't win as many championships. I think they. Some of these people now all suffer from. They are in the wake of this, of course, incredible. One of the best to ever do it. But I think there's a lot of branding that goes on. It's just like he occupies that place. And even if a basketball player was better than Jordan, he wouldn't get that moniker at this point.

[Monica Padman]

You're right.

[Dax Shepard]

Until 20 years goes by, maybe. And like Valentino Rossi is a God. He's my number one God. He's my Michael Jordan. And I have to admit, I was looking at the number of race wins that Marc Marquez now has. It's more than Valley by a considerable amount.

[Monica Padman]

What's the other guy's name?

[Dax Shepard]

Marc Marquez.

[Monica Padman]

His name is two times Mark.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right, Mark. Times two in span. They'd say times do. Wow.

[Monica Padman]

He's really. He's the actual Mark E. Mark.

[Dax Shepard]

And Alex Marquez, his younger brother, is in number two. But yeah, I was just looking at that and I was like, well, look, the numbers would suggest that I'm wrong. Valley's not Michael Jordan, just numbers wise. But for me, he is Michael Jordan. He'll continue because he had to race against Mark Marquez. Mark Marquez hasn't had to race against Mark Marquez. I feel like that's not his name now. And I know his name very well. And now you have me scared. So I'm just going to chat GGPT it. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Who's a better motorcycle rider, Valentino Rossi or Marc Marquez? This might make it blow up.

[Monica Padman]

This is the type of double Virgo situation where it's going to give you an opinion as fact, and I'm not going to like it.

[Dax Shepard]

Here's how it breaks down. There's no clear better overall, but the answer depends on what you value most. Valentino Rossi, the legend. World Championships 9, 7 and 4. Premier class wins 89. Podiums 235. Okay. Marcus had eight World Championships, six in Premier. Okay. So he's still got to win one more to catch, but he's going to win this year. Race wins 59. Oh, Valentino. 89. What did I see?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

Podiums 140. Podiums 235. Oh, so I'm. No, I'm still safely.

[Monica Padman]

Very much exactly. There's a clear Best.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And is that his name?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it is. Mark Marquez. Yeah. Thank God.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

That would have been humiliating. Okay, well, good. That was a good day for me. I found out my hero is statistically better.

[Monica Padman]

And a good day for me because confirming that best is best.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Best is still best.

[Monica Padman]

Look, I do want to be everyone's best. I get that. Is. That is part of it. But it's also grammar. And. And back to Charlie. He. He. He agrees with me, but he then couldn't really say. See, this is what happens when you. When you believe this. It is then hard to say who your best friend is, because in reality, I guess we do all hold multiple. But then he ended up saying Ace, which was very cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that is good.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but it was a cop out because he just needed to say one. He said Erica.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

He said Erica.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay is why.

[Monica Padman]

And then he switched it to Ace.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Both safe options.

[Dax Shepard]

And was Ryan hurt during any of that or. He seemed fine.

[Monica Padman]

He was all right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. Did Ryan say who his best friend was?

[Monica Padman]

He. No. He's in the category of everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

Is everyone?

[Monica Padman]

Not everyone. But that. No, that's you, I think. I think. Yeah, you. You do throw it.

[Dax Shepard]

I just know so many special people. Like you're gonna not call Panay or Nate Tuck best friend. No way.

[Monica Padman]

Well, here's. Okay, so then special people and best friend are not the same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

They're not. You're right. Because I know a lot of special people that are not my best friends.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But I know a handful that are.

[Monica Padman]

Dakota Johnson.

[Jerrod Carmichael]

Who?

[Dax Shepard]

I just never even met her. I feel like there was some overlap. Maybe. Dakota Johnson. Johnson was with Lewis Hamilton somewhere. Is that what I saw? No, she's married.

[Monica Padman]

No, she was with. She was with Kate.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. And Tom. TB12.

[Monica Padman]

Tom Brady.

[Dax Shepard]

Tom Brady. Yeah, I saw that on an Instagram.

[Monica Padman]

She had a really cute outfit, bathing suit and skirt.

[Dax Shepard]

This is our pop culture podcast. Now we're do pop culture. Yeah, I saw a photo, it's all positive on Instagram of TB12 and Kate and Johnson.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I saw that too. And I obviously immediately looked up the skirt. I almost bought it, but I didn't buy it.

[Dax Shepard]

You gotta be careful when you say you looked up the skirt, because that's a perv. That's a category of photographs on the dark web called upskirts, and you want to stay clear of any association with that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, I have to double down. I did look up the skirt.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. What? You see?

[Jerrod Carmichael]

How'd it look?

[Monica Padman]

A gorgeous, gorgeous interior.

[Dax Shepard]

Even better than the exterior.

[Monica Padman]

No, I didn't buy it. I wanted to buy it, but I didn't buy it because Triz, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Triz. Trisepa T. Triz is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's what we call it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you call. That's what you call the GLP one. Triz. Yeah, I love it. So you can't buy anything because Triz. Because Triz might take you out of the size.

[Monica Padman]

No, remember, I'm also doing it to curb shopping.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right. Okay. God, there's so many things at play. That makes sense.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, there are.

[Dax Shepard]

And has it had any effect on your shopping? You said?

[Monica Padman]

No, no, I've. I've gone shopping so, so much. I got this sweater on the way to Palm Springs. There's an insane outlet, which is mostly.

[Dax Shepard]

Why you want to go to Palm Springs, right?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. I wasn't gonna go. I wasn't gonna go. Okay. And then I was driving right past it, and I turned. I turned around.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. You got off in a later exit and then went backtrack.

[Monica Padman]

I turned around and then I was stopped at a train for so long.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course.

[Monica Padman]

The longest train I've ever.

[Dax Shepard]

Or an actual train was passing.

[Monica Padman]

A train was passing. And I was stopped there for so long that it really was like. Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Like the universe was smiting you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's right. Really, really punished. But then the train ended, and I went straight into the stores and had a great time. It was great. I had a great time.

[Dax Shepard]

How was the Triz with drinking on the trip? Because it would normally be a big drinking trip.

[Monica Padman]

It was still a drinking trip. It was definitely less than usual. I think normally on those types of trips, you're drinking early.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

I started drinking later in the the day than I definitely used to.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then I would stop early, but I always kind of stop early. I'm not someone who drinks into the night. I like to be done early. So because the late start and the early end, there's less consumption. Definitely. I also was sweating it all out.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Sweating to the oldies.

[Monica Padman]

That's what they say.

[Dax Shepard]

That's. That was the guy who danced around a lot who was missing, who was always on Letterman. Flamboyant man. You know, him exercising.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Richard Simmons.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Richard Simmons. DVD collection was called Sweatin to the Oldies. And you would dance to these catchy old songs, and the pounds would melt away.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. They should have Ozempic, like, paired musical tracks. Where just you take your Ozempic and put the CD on and then you lose a bunch of weight.

[Monica Padman]

Have you looked at any of the comments? What's the reaction?

[Dax Shepard]

I haven't, I haven't been over to our page because our page is more dangerous than my page. And anytime we wade into anything controversial, I just avoid our page. So we talked about Taylor and so I just knew better than to look at our page for a while.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I'm not sure.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Well, I hope people respect us.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't see anything on. On my page, which means it's not controversial because I will see things on my page if they're enough controversial. And nothing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Not one thing.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Everyone's support. I'm gonna take that as support.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow. Okay. We're really taking a leap.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

All right. Should we do some facts?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, let's do some facts.

[Monica Padman]

Some facts for Gerard.

[Dax Shepard]

Ah, Gerard.

[Monica Padman]

He's so amaz. I love. Yeah, I love, love him. He's so introspective and insightful and thoughtful. Like, he's just. He's just thinking about the world all the time and it's so fun to talk to people like that. Okay, now the Botox. So I just said that my Botox was called something specific because it's like I can still kind of move.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because it's like the actors Botox or whatever. And I didn't know if that was. There was an actual name for it. Not really. It just says like micro dose or something. I get. I think my guy just has a cute name for it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Shout out. Contra posto. Casey Welk. He's perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

Is he a magician? When you go so far as to say he's a magician.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Because I love magicians and I love Casey and he does great work and I do think it's subtle.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. I would have no idea other than. Than that you look too young to drink wine, even for a 25 year old. Like, by the way, that whole thing with you getting carded, that makes sense if you're 50, because I can no longer tell anything below 35. I'm out to lunch on. I don't know if someone's in high school or in graduate school, but when you're 25, you have a good barometer of who's 20.

[Monica Padman]

I know. And corrective skincare. I owe a lot to a lot of people and my parents. Some of this is just genes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Did Michael Jackson's nose fall off? Entirely. According to the Internet. It did not fall off entirely. And that. That's a rumor.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

So I, you know, I feel obligated to say that the Internet says that's not true.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to tell us because it came up last night, funny enough at dinner. And I know we've told it before, but it's worth repeating now that we're talking about Michael Jackson. Yeah. Ryan's driving the car, he's got his three girls. Michael Jackson comes on, they're listening to it, and everyone's just like, I love Michael Jackson. He was the best. And then Ryan feels compelled to, like, just add an asterisk. Like, well, he's a little complicated. And then the second he says that, he realizes, I don't want to explain to them why it's complicated. They're very young.

[Monica Padman]

He said he did. He did some really bad things.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And they were like, what? And he's like, I don't want to talk about it. Now's not the time. Maybe we'll talk about it later. He's like, no, Daddy, tell us. And then the middle child, Millie, goes, oh, my God. Did he smoke cigarettes? That was their first guess. Did he smoke cigarettes? Because it was really bad. And Ryan goes, no, no, it was really bad.

[Monica Padman]

He was like, he did some really bad things. No, we're not going to talk about it. It was really bad. Like, he was, like, emphasizing how bad it was. And then did he smoke cigarettes?

[Dax Shepard]

Right. And then the second guess was, did he show his penis to somebody? And then Ryan's like, okay, well, he has definitely more in that world. But in order, smoking cigarettes would be worse than showing your penis to somebody.

[Monica Padman]

I know this is actually timely because cigarettes feel like they're sort of back in culture. I find that to be scary.

[Dax Shepard]

I just heard that maybe Gen Alpha or whatever, Whatever, one of the younger gen generations is, like, reinvigorated by smoking cigarettes, which is hysterical.

[Monica Padman]

It's so. It's like we just all are, like, fine with dying, I guess. Like, everyone's just like, end of the. I do think that might be part of it. It's like, well, it. Everything's bad. Everything's messed up. Might as well smoke. And it's like in movies again, like, as a cool thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Retro.

[Monica Padman]

And do you know about this? Diet Cokes are called fridge cigarettes now.

[Dax Shepard]

I heard that recently and I loved it. That's so good.

[Monica Padman]

It's great for you because you love.

[Dax Shepard]

Diet Cokes and I love cigarettes so much. But to me, what it points out is, like, our overall culture is a pendulum. Right. We've felt it swing, particularly in the last four years. Right. It's just like. There's all these overcorrections and then. But it's also happening intergenerational, generationally. And the downside is they're like, oh, yeah, those. The older people are so terrified of smoking, so then it kind of appeals to them. But then the encouraging thing for me is, like, the incessant hating half the country. That too will be a thing that they're like, oh, my God, they're so fucking stupid. So it's like there's positive parts of it. It's always just like some reaction to the previous generation, I think maybe. Well, we'll see.

[Monica Padman]

We just know it causes cancer.

[Dax Shepard]

We sure do. They have been working on. I've read about it. There is a lung cancer vaccine in trials.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

These younger generations, they have no fucking clue how lucky they are. No chickenpox, they'll never get hpv. And by God, maybe they can bang darts without lung cancer.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Gosh, if they have a lung cancer vaccine, would I start smoking cigarettes?

[Dax Shepard]

This is interesting. You must, you must. You'd look so cool and then you'd shave your side. And then there's just be like this whole chapter that everyone would be excited.

[Monica Padman]

To watch, as you can imagine.

[Dax Shepard]

I. I've thought about it because I loved it so much. I mean, I really loved smoking. And I was like, fuck, if they get that vaccine, would I? And ultimately, no, because I was such a bad smoker, though. Like, I, you know me, I cough all day long without anything in my lungs.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I. I've already thought this through and I'm not going to do it even if there's a vaccine.

[Monica Padman]

It also stinks. Like, the other day I was walking by and I was like, ugh. Like, it does. It smells bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's terrible. But you should know when you're a smoker, you can't smell it. So, like, when you start smoking, you'll be fine. Your whole house will smell like an ashtray. But you won't know.

[Monica Padman]

Ew. That's literally my nightmare. You know, I'm so scared of smelling and not knowing it.

[Dax Shepard]

It might be a nice immersion therapy for you.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, who are the background singers on Donna Summer song State of Independence? Okay. Yeah. Okay, so Quincy Jones assembled this and Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Dionne Warwick, Lionel Richie, Brenda Russell, Christopher Cross, Kenny Loggins, James Ingram, and Michael McDonald. Okay. He talked about the movie network and he said he thought maybe the actor won the Oscar. And she was on screen for just a couple minutes. The man won the Oscar. But that. He was dead.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, he died before he could receive the Oscar? Yeah, posthumously. Wow. That must have been the first year that an Oscar winner was also in the immemorium.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, that's sad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But also kind of a full takeover.

[Monica Padman]

What happened to Heath?

[Dax Shepard]

He was alive when he won.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because he did. He did Batman after cowboy.

[Monica Padman]

Movie broke back.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Brokeback now sounds inherently gay, but I can't imagine it did before the movie, do you think? There's nothing about that word before the movie, but when you hear brokeback, you immediately think this gay love story.

[Monica Padman]

Right. Yeah, no, I. I'm sure. Because. What does it mean? I don't even remember. Is that the name of the mountain?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't remember, but it sounds like onomatopoeia for gay something. Gay sex. A little bit. Brokeback Mountain.

[Monica Padman]

No, you don't. No, it does not.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, no, no. You're saying. Because why. It doesn't have to be gay sex. That just sounds like sex. And you might be break your back.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but it sounds like doggy style and arched back, which.

[Monica Padman]

Which hetero couples do constantly.

[Dax Shepard]

They can't get enough of it. You're right. But. Yeah, so I guess not. But it does. I agree. It does sound. It does sound kind of like reverse. Back. Back.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but we don't. We still don't even know what that means.

[Dax Shepard]

Back is a triggering word. Let's just agree on that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well. Oh, you're okay. Yeah. Because back. Bottom. Anal.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, broke bottom mountain. Broke bottom mountain. That. Now that's. We could agree. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I'll give you that. Okay. Yes. Heath Ledger was nominated for. And won the Academy Award for best supporting actor posthumously for his role as the Joker in Dark Knight. So he did win.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

You know, I just want to end it. He said a quote of. I think he said his friend said it. So this is very telephone. But I really liked it. I really liked when he said, what got you here. Won't get you there. I thought that was.

[Dax Shepard]

My feelings are a little bit hurt because that's. I say that I have the same. Same. It just worded a little different. But it never made an impact on you.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Mine is what got you to the party. Won't keep you at the party.

[Monica Padman]

Won't keep you. I know. And I.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't care when I say. Say it. I get it.

[Monica Padman]

I. No, it's not That I don't care. I. I love you. But there, this has a better ring to it.

[Dax Shepard]

You like the branding better, the messaging.

[Monica Padman]

I like the play on words. What got you here won't get you there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, it's good. I mean, part mine has party in it, so it sounds a little more fun. What's there could be marooned on an island.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

All right.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Yours is better.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's all right. Yeah. Your true feelings are known. Monica. There are so many deer out my window, it's insane. There's two little baby deer that live in my yard. We've named them Bambi and Bambi and the boy's name is the best. Bambi and. Oh, man, I gotta get bamboo brumb. Brambus. Bambi and Brambus. Oh, I can't remember something like that.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Bambi is. Is fortuitous because doesn't Bambi die or does Bambi's mom die?

[Dax Shepard]

We lose Bambi's mom, I believe.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

In the great tradition of all Disney movies, the parents. Parents die in the opening frame and then.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's a good device.

[Monica Padman]

Strong. All right, let's end on dead parents.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. I'd love to.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you. Foreignchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.