Marcus Mumford

Summary

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Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: Marcus Mumford | March 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Marcus Mumford, frontman of Mumford & Sons, for an intimate, candid discussion about his musical journey, upbringing, creative process, personal struggles, and healing. The conversation traverses the complexities of musical identity, sobriety, the formation and evolution of Mumford & Sons, the power of artistic vulnerability, and Marcus' recent foray into solo work and raw self-expression. The atmosphere is warm, playful, and deeply honest, reflecting the signature style of Dax Shepard, co-host Monica Padman, and Marcus himself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Upbringing, Family, and Early Days (03:11–16:31)

• Marcus' Roots
  • Born in Yorba Linda, California with family in church leadership; parents inspired by the Vineyard Church movement (09:06–11:33).
  • Moved back to the UK, where his parents established the first Vineyard-style church in Wimbledon.
• Growing Up in Two Worlds
  • Calfornian cultural influence contrasted with British schooling; peroxide hair, love for Sublime & Neil Young, and the balancing act between religious tradition and musical exploration (12:03–13:00, 19:09–19:23).
• Sibling & Family Dynamics
  • Felt like the “younger sibling jugglers,” competing with academically brilliant siblings (11:43–12:03).

“We had a real open house. … My mum loved hospitality. … We always had people through the church, bought the house next door to us and knocked through the wall as a guest house. … So I'd sit in the kitchen with her, watch her, and listen to music and talk.”
— Marcus Mumford (09:44)

Relationship with Carey Mulligan

• Pen pals since childhood, lost touch, then reconnected as adults as their careers blossomed (12:22–16:46).
• Early friendship grew into romance amid moments of professional breakthrough for both.
• Marcus describes their emotional reunion and Carey supporting him during pivotal career moments, like their Grammy performance with Bob Dylan (15:18–16:46).

“She entered stage left at a moment that was weird for me … she had just been nominated for an Oscar ... She was so helpful to me in that moment, being like, ‘look, you can be in control of this and you can say yes to this, you can also say no to it.’”
— Marcus Mumford (16:31)

Sobriety & Middle Age (05:59–08:23)

• Marcus and Dax bond over sobriety—Marcus stopped drinking in 2019, Dax with over two decades of sobriety.
• Both reflect on the feeling of lost time, “feeling the passage of time” as middle age arrives, and growing into a sense of wisdom and self-determination as parents and as their own authorities (06:54–08:20).

Musical Genesis: Church, Drums & Beyond (17:17–23:32)

• Early love of music, drumming in school (though not in the main choir, learning harmonies as a ‘B team’ member).
• Family steeped in music as listeners, not players.
• Marcus started with drums before picking up guitar in his late teens.
• Stories about collecting drums, musical heroes, and how family musicality and church traditions fed into his artistry.

Formation & Chemistry of Mumford & Sons (23:51–29:01)

• Started playing for pocket money at age 12, open mics in Denver (24:09–24:32).
• Session work with Laura Marling; serendipitous manager notice turned group project into a “band.”
• Founding line-up came together out of existing friendships and shared interests—Ben (childhood friend), Winston (church connection), Ted (London scene).
• Marcus describes the “magic” of songwriting and the almost-mystical chemistry of bands (“writing songs is like trying to catch fairies in nets” – 27:12).

“We noticed … when the four of us sang together and played together, it felt different to when everyone else was in the room.”
— Marcus Mumford (25:46)

Creative Process, Collaboration, and Artistic Growth (29:01–38:51)

• Musical influences: British tribalism (Oasis vs Blur, Stones vs Beatles), how family shaped tastes (29:22–31:14).
• Marcus’ process: preferring an outside producer for objectivity and context, working recently with Aaron Dessner (The National, Taylor Swift) on “Prizefighter” (22:06–22:35, 54:18–56:10).
• Reflection on stages of career—starting as outsiders, head-down touring, later realizing the importance of pride in his work.
• Progression from self-doubt, being present, and having compassion for younger self (“I was not present to a lot of the early success … I was either in the negative narrative or ... let’s move on quickly because this isn’t going to last.” — 38:39)

Artistic Vulnerability & Healing: Sobriety, Abuse, and “Cannibal” (47:54–50:44)

• Dax and Marcus connect on trauma—specifically, childhood sexual abuse and the emotional journey of expressing and releasing that trauma in art.
• Marcus describes the trepidation and ultimately liberating process of writing and releasing “Cannibal.”
• Balancing honesty, boundaries with fans who respond with their own trauma, and the sense of moving forward into acceptance.

“I feel, like, grateful that I put it out. … I think without it, I wouldn’t have come back to the band as energized or as joyful or as free. … I can drive this train. I’m not just a passenger. … It certainly helped my ability to accept myself.”
— Marcus Mumford (49:36–50:20)

Rebirth, “Prizefighter,” and Community (54:18–59:14)

• Seven-year hiatus explained: COVID, member departure, Marcus’ solo album (54:18).
• Organic rekindling of band’s chemistry and easier, more honest songwriting process.
• Influence of Pharrell Williams and Aaron Dessner as peer mentors and creative partners.
• Celebrating true musical community, not just for “name dropping,” with a special highlight on collaboration for the new album—Gracie Abrams, Gigi Perez, Hozier, and Chris Stapleton (58:10–59:36).

“These songs just poured out of us. … Write it in the morning, record it in the afternoon and be done and walk away.”
— Marcus Mumford (55:25–56:10)

The Power of Generosity and Artistic Community (57:11–59:52)

• Dax draws a parallel between Seth Rogen’s “The Studio” and Mumford & Sons’ Prizefighter spirit—generosity breeds lasting connections and creative magic.
• Marcus reflects on fostering musical friendships, investing in community—“I feel deeply honored by the people that said yes” (59:22).
• Humble approach: “It’s not just so that we can name drop. It’s a bit of that as well. … We’ve always been collaborative.”

Life on the Road, Special Experiences, and Artistic Living (43:00–46:34)

• Recaps of adventurous tours: the India experience, historic train tours with vintage railcars, the influence of seeing the country “from the backyards.”
• Choosing unique, fulfilling (not necessarily lucrative) experiences with the band.

“You don’t do it to make any money. … We had a house band and we paid everyone the same amount … It’s an experience. This is like a five-day vacation where we’re working.”
— Marcus Mumford (45:40–45:58)

Upcoming Tour & Future Directions (60:12–62:54)

• Band is touring—lots of festivals, but more dates to be announced. Highlight on playing Hyde Park, London, after a decade.
• Marcus’ special bond with Nashville and Music City’s creative, collaborative community.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “My doctor was like, have at it, bud.”
  — Marcus on his nicotine gum habit, with Dax joking about the vice/virtue (05:03).

• “My body keeps betraying me...”
  — Marcus on the resonance of his solo work and bodily memory (50:20).

• “I just fucking love it. … If people come along for the ride, then great. But if not genuinely for the first time, I don’t think it’ll hurt my feelings.”
  — Marcus on the new Prizefighter album (39:23).

• “How should we proceed without this getting too heavy? Is the first line of the second song on the record.”
  — Marcus, describing telling his mother about his abuse via song (51:53).

• “I do better when you do better.”
  — Marcus, on entering the phase of lifting up others as a healthy man (65:03).

• Dax on the impact of community generosity:
  “That show is a result of who he [Seth Rogen] is as a spirit ... Prizefighter, do you feel that at all?” (57:11)

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Performance Segment

Timestamp: 66:05–68:45

• Marcus performs an intensely emotional, stripped-down version of a new song (possibly "Can You Hold All My Secrets?") live in-studio.
• Dax and Monica are visibly moved, calling the privilege "unreal" and joking about the raw “shouty power” of his voice.

“Can you hold all my secrets? Can we swear we can forget? Yeah, I had lies like you wouldn’t believe. That’s kind of it.”
— Marcus Mumford (67:52–68:45)

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Miscellaneous Musical & Cultural References

• “You were an Oasis house, not a Blur house.” – playfully discussing inherited fan rivalries (29:57).
• Stories about early open mics, wedding gigs, and school talent shows.
• Dax and Monica—musical influences via film, TV, and “tribal” tastes.
• Music documentaries discussed (Peter Jackson’s "Get Back;" nod to not watching too many music docs).

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Notable Timestamps

• Sobriety & Middle Age: 05:59–08:23
• Meeting Carey Mulligan: 12:22–16:46
• Music Upbringing: 17:17–19:23
• Band Formation: 25:05–26:07
• Creative Collaboration: 22:01–22:35; 54:18–56:10
• On Trauma & Solo Album: 47:54–51:58
• Live Performance: 66:05–68:45

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Tone & Chemistry

• Marcus is warm, self-deprecating, articulate, and open—revealing both the humor and gravity of his journey.
• Dax and Monica balance lightness with genuine vulnerability, deepening the conversation around trauma, artistry, and personal growth.
• Frequent playful banter about age, family, music trivia, and mutual friends in the entertainment world.

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Conclusion

This episode dives beneath the surface of fame to expose the humanity, messiness, and bravery of Marcus Mumford—as an artist, a survivor, a husband and father, and a creative collaborator. Packed with memorable storytelling, frank admissions, and a soaring musical payoff, it’s a moving testament to the power of creative honesty and community.

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This summary skips advertisements, recaps only core content, and preserves the spirit and language of the episode for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dex Randall Shepherd. I'm joined by Monica, Lily, Padman.

[B]

Are you excited that your name is very similar to the little boy's name in Game of Thrones? Or a knight in Seven kingdoms?

[A]

I do like it, but his name is Dex. Sol. His middle name is Sol.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes me think he's got really cool parents. Well, I think he's so artistic. We're in love with him.

[B]

So good.

[A]

This is an intro though. I don't know if this is the place for.

[B]

It's okay. Marcus probably loves him.

[A]

This is an incredible episode. Fuck. We are so happy with this guest. This was so much fun. Marcus Mumford. Marcus is a Grammy Award winning singer, songwriter, musician and record producer. He's the lead singer of the band Mumford and Sons. His albums include Sigh no More, Babel Wilder, Mind Delta, Ding Ding Ding, Rushmere. And there's a new Mumford and Suttons album out now called Prize Fighter. Listen to it. We're lucky enough to have heard him blast us.

[B]

Yeah. Spoilers.

[A]

Live performance.

[B]

He sings for us in this episode and it's incredible. And the album is incredible.

[A]

Yeah, he sings the shit out of that song. Powerful. Please enjoy Marcus Mumford. This episode of Armchair Expert is Presented by Apple TV, the new US home of Formula 1. Starting March 7, you can watch complete all access live coverage of every Grand Prix, including practice, qualifying and sprints, all in one place. Watch every race live only on Apple tv. We are supported by Quints. There's something to be said for clothes that just work. Not trendy, not flashy, just well made pieces that hold up day after day. That's what Quint's gets, right? They make everyday essentials with premium materials. Organic cotton sweaters, polos, lighter jackets. The kind of stuff that looks good season after season. And here's the thing, they cut out the middlemen by working directly with top factories. So you're not paying brand markup, you're just paying for quality.

[B]

I really love quint. It's becoming startling. I've been walking around, I ask people if I like their clothes.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

You got to put yourself out there. And nine times out of 10 these days, it's from quints.

[A]

Yeah. I just got asked by the fashionista herself, Nicole, what size I work. She's getting her husband something from Quince.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, Too. Look at that beautiful guitar. It's gorgeous. Yeah.

[A]

L. The inlay. Where do you guys live?

[C]

Oh, shit.

[A]

She grew up going to school, driving by Stonehenge. Am I remembering the right person? No, I'm not. Oh.

[B]

Who are you?

[A]

I'm fucking thinking of the gal.

[B]

This is embarrassing. We're cutting all this.

[A]

We're leaving it all in. I'm failing in my 51st year. No, no, that was from Fargo, season five and Ted Lasso. Most incredible actress, Juno Temple. She's from down there. And she used to cross Stonehenge on the way to school.

[C]

She went to Bedale's, didn't she?

[A]

Is that what it was?

[C]

School got lots of actors.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

Oh. Lily Allen went there.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Very in the news right now.

[A]

Yes, ma'.

[B]

Am.

[A]

We just had our thousandth episode, and I'm pretty good at keeping the details straight, but I have conflated two English powerhouse.

[B]

Carrie was also Zoom.

[A]

She was Zoom. That's harder.

[C]

Carrie was Zoom.

[A]

Was she? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So that's harder.

[A]

It's like, they happen, but they didn't happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

How do you do this?

[A]

Well, let me show you what's happening through the. Because ideally, this is the only brand of lozenge I like. The other ones give me gas. Between you and I, Marcus, because you

[C]

have to push through a bit of an indigestion barrier with the gum.

[A]

Because on the other side is the. Yeah, yeah. The ones I like only come in 2 milligram.

[C]

Fuck that.

[A]

I need 4.

[C]

Doesn't touch the sides.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

You got to have four.

[A]

And so I have to supplement with a spray. So I basically make this a four. It's an apothecary.

[C]

That's fantastic.

[B]

Are you a nicotine head?

[A]

Yeah. I just saw the gum in his.

[C]

It's my last remaining vice, other than pride and sort of general cuntiness. Nicorette is my last.

[B]

Okay, that's good, Marcus.

[A]

We should not aim to get rid of it. There's nothing wrong with it.

[C]

No. My doctor was like, have at it, bud.

[A]

Yeah. I don't even know that we should call it a vice other than we would die without it in that respect.

[C]

Yeah. Well, that's true.

[B]

Why don't you call it a virtue?

[A]

It's a virtue. Do people ask you like non nicotine users when they see you consume it compulsively, do they go like, well, what's it make you feel like? Do they ask you that?

[C]

Yeah, I get a bit of that. Or I get a bit of, like, what brand of gum are you obsessed with?

[A]

And what's your answer to the feeling you get? Because I have a go to.

[C]

I only get a feeling with the lack of it.

[A]

I said the feeling is absence of agitation.

[C]

That's much more eloquent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't feel it other than the morning. The morning's nice. The first coffee and a fucking pop. Pop.

[C]

Pop. Yeah, Poppy pop. You get a buzz.

[A]

I get a little bit, you know, from the first one.

[C]

No, I get a buzz from my first coffee. Yes, yes. And I've taken coffee much more seriously since I stopped drinking.

[A]

When did you stop drinking?

[C]

19.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

20. 19.

[C]

Seven years.

[B]

Good news.

[A]

Congrats. I didn't know that we had that overlap.

[C]

Yeah. What about you?

[A]

I haven't drank in 21 years.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

But I had a nice little go around with opiates during COVID Okay. Had a bad spell, had to detox, and the whole night. We'll call it a relapse. Don't call it a relapse. I've been here for years. You're too young to know all that.

[B]

No, you.

[A]

You know, you guys are the same age we are.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

It's a lovely age.

[B]

It's a good age. I like it too. About to hit 40.

[C]

Coming into our prime, I feel.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. How do you feel about it?

[C]

I feel fantastic.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[C]

I like it. We were just talking about it, you know, occupying that space between our kids and our parents.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is kind of a nice place to be figuring stuff out in.

[B]

Don't you feel like it's the age, though, where time has started? It's 11. 11. Everyone make a wish. Ooh. So don't you feel like it's the age where you start really feeling the passage of time because your parents are aging and then you have your kids?

[C]

I feel like a slight shift in authority. I feel like it's time to sort of know what I think a bit more interesting. Whereas before, you could kind of rely on the opinions of your elders a little bit. And I don't know, a lot of people go through phases in their 20s where they're like, really? Like, this is definitely. But, like, I haven't had Many answers. For a while, I've had lots of questions.

[A]

Wisdom seeping in is what you're feeling. Maybe. Yeah, maybe.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But, Zo, if I do the math now, then I think you and I are on nearly identical trajectories. Did you quit at 29?

[C]

About 31. Yeah. I don't actually know. I think it was 2019. Where are we now? 26. So that's six and a half years. And I am 38. My wife and I are so equally bad at maths that on my last birthday, she wrote me my birthday card and she said, Happy 39th birthday. And it took me a full three hours before I went next door with my calculator. And the year. Because I knew the year.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Minus the year I was born.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Which I thought was quite a clever way to calculate it.

[B]

That is good.

[C]

And it turns out I was 38.

[B]

Yes, that's right.

[C]

So actually, for my birthday, she got me an extra year.

[A]

I mean, these parallels, will they come up? Come on. January 2nd of this year, I walk into my bathroom and my lovely bride has handwritten me a beautiful card and it says, Happy 52nd birthday. And I thought, oh, she accidentally wrote a two on the inside. She'll get it straight. No doubles down on 52, three or four times.

[C]

I'm like, actors, mate. Can't count the shit.

[B]

Oh, my God. Maybe it's actresses. They can't do it.

[A]

And then we'll get into other, less fun parallels. But, hey, you know, I think we got a lot of them. So I think, strangely, you were born in California.

[C]

Was indeed. Strange. Yeah, I was born in Yorba Linda,

[A]

Rootin Tootin, Orange county, which is heavy, heavy Christian country.

[C]

Yes, sir. Which is why I was born there. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So mom and dad worked for or were leaders in a church.

[C]

Yeah. In a church called the Vineyard Church, which, weirdly, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell went to with T Bone Burnett in the seventies.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Wild. And then my parents went out and worked there for a couple of years and got trained up by the guy who led it called John Wimber, who's like a grandpa to me. Always used to bring me quicksilver T shirts when he used to come and stay and sort of this large be bearded, American, very Californian kind of guy with Hawaiian shirts. You'd show up in southwest London at our house and be like a real fish out of water. And was this amazing guy. He was actually in the Righteous Brothers. Oh, he was, yeah. And sort of gave up all that and then went west.

[A]

Was it mega Churchy style?

[C]

No, well, it's a bit smaller than that. Very community based. It's an amazing church. I mean, like all churches, it has its flaws, but it was kind of a cool community to grow up in. We had a real open house. We always had people through the church, bought the house next door to us and knocked through the wall as a guest house. My mom loved hospitality, was always baking, cooking stuff. And so I'd sit in the kitchen with her, watch her, and listen to music and talk.

[A]

But what makes me think your parents must be pretty unique in their own right is my very good friend from London was just here last week, British automotive journalist Jethro. And we were in the hot tub chatting about religion. And he was really saying, you know, it's so different there than here. Yeah. I mean, even the evangelical kind of strain is so dominant here. And he's really wrapping his head around it because he's married to an American woman with American parents from the Bible bell. And he's trying to understand how deep it goes here. So. Because it's so not standard there. What took your parents there?

[C]

My dad was working for the Church of England, which is very traditionalist and, you know, wearing a dog collar and doing lots of kind of last rites, births, weddings and funerals. That was the jam.

[B]

Big three.

[C]

The big three. And then went and saw Wimber speak at Westminster Central hall in, like, 85. Both of my parents felt like, we gotta go to California and understand what this thing is about, which is a real risk at that point in their careers and their lives. They had one kid because the Church

[A]

of England had to have frowned upon that depression.

[C]

Absolutely. At that time particularly. And so it was a risk. And they went out and felt like that's what they were supposed to do with their lives. They felt like that's what God was telling them to do. And so they went out to Orange county to go spend time with Wimber and learn about how they did church. And then planted the first church of that kind outside of the US in our little front room in Wimbledon.

[A]

Okay, which is Wimbledon, the tennis venue we think of. Yeah, that's right, Southwest London. Is that what it is? What kind of kid were you there? Do you have siblings?

[C]

Yeah, I have an older brother who's six years older than me. My wife's a little sibling as well. And both of our older brothers, fiercely intelligent, both went to Oxford University double first. And so we grew up as, like, the younger kids who had to, like, juggle in the corner for attention because we couldn't keep up with the conversation at the dinner table.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So I think that's part of that.

[A]

Okay. If you're smart, I'll sing.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. It was a bit of that. Watch me play the drums on saucepans. It's my vibe. And then always had this kind of Californian streak culturally in my life. So I like peroxide blonde my hair when I'm 10. When I first met my wife, actually.

[A]

Yeah. Where did you guys meet? I mean, I. Bible camp.

[B]

You met her when you were 10?

[C]

Yeah, we were pen pals.

[A]

What?

[C]

Yeah. She was about a foot taller than me. She's an absolute giant at that time. And I was quite small.

[A]

She's not a giant now. Right.

[B]

I love that you say she was a giant, not that you were small.

[A]

She was freakishly massive.

[C]

And I would go on her shoulders in the swimming pool.

[A]

No.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She wrote in her journal, I met this boy called Marcus. He's two years younger than me, so definitely not underlined boyfriend material.

[A]

Oh, my God. Like she was Bridget Jones diary already.

[C]

I got a nine out of ten and my cousin who was her age got an eight and a half.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

Really good. Before we keep proceeding, you're married to Carey Mulligan. I hate to say that, in case anyone doesn't know that I always hate when people say that when I have an interview. But alas, I would be like, everyone's talking, like, we should know the why right now.

[B]

That needs to be framed in your house.

[C]

Yeah, we do have that. It's not framed. We used to fax each other. That's special.

[A]

What kind of faxes?

[C]

Pictures or pictures and doodles and.

[A]

Anything naughty?

[C]

Nothing naughty, no. We were like 11, you know. Yeah, I know, but tell me everything.

[A]

Just all my doodling, generally. I found my way into penis and balls. Cowboys.

[C]

Oh, yeah, there was a lot of that.

[A]

But I was trying to impress.

[C]

I was trying not to be the meathead. I'm the meathead now.

[A]

You take the uniform off. But now that you got her, but suffice to say, you liked her.

[C]

I don't remember feelings like that when I was. No, she was a friend and we kept in touch until we were like 14 or something. Then we lost contact. We were both on Facebook for about a six month window. I was in college and she was somehow on Facebook and we got in touch through that, but then we both quit and were out of touch. And then I saw her on a billboard for an education.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And went and saw it. And then Was in Los Angeles.

[A]

Okay, now hold. Back up.

[C]

Okay, sorry, I'm speeding up.

[A]

No, I just want to know because I have this with this girl, Danielle Fox, who lived at the end of the street of my grandparents house. And I would always spend the summer at my grandparents house. And I was just wildly in love with her. If I had been driving around at some point and saw Danielle Fox on a billboard and then I went to the movie, I would have been fucked up some. I guess what I'm asking is when you saw the movie where you were like, oh, God damn. Little bit.

[C]

Well, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay, great. Yeah.

[C]

My wife's one of the most beautiful women of all time.

[B]

Yes, she is.

[A]

With respect, I agree.

[B]

But also you were probably like, but I know her, but that's my buddy.

[C]

And then eventually when we reconnected, it was like, I know you, you're exactly who I know. And it was cool.

[A]

We got married pretty quick, right?

[C]

We did, yeah. And I think because of that, because

[A]

it was like, yeah, you guys were both at a really interesting moment in time for yourselves professionally, in that it's starting to work for you. And this whole new world, at least in my experience, was like, it's fun, but it's chaotic. And is it real? Maybe to find at that moment when life's getting a little hard to kind of comprehend, to plug into somebody who is experiencing the same thing and from the same place.

[C]

So she came down to Nashville. We were writing our second album. First album just come out. We toured, it had gone well. We were right in the second one in this rental home. We had lots of friends there. They'd come over and either we'd do picking parties and then we were playing in someone's basement. A room this size. A friend of mine in LA, who I'd been staying with and talked with about Carrie, had gone to New York, seen her, called me and was like, we're gonna come to Nashville, see you play this basement show. And they arrive in Nashville. At that time I stood outside the Starbucks and I could see them come out. And she runs down and jumps like, game over.

[A]

You're like, I'll be married in minutes.

[C]

Two days before that, we got the call asking us to play at the Grammys for the first time with Bob Dylan. Whoa, whoa, whoa. And so she entered stage left at a moment that was weird for me. And she had just been nominated for an Oscar and done the whole thing with an education. So she was a couple years ahead, or a year ahead, whatever, and was so helpful to me in that moment being like, look, you can be in control of this and you can say yes to this. You can also say no to it. And I was not in a phase in my life when I was saying no to anything for sure. Right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

So she was so helpful. And you're absolutely right. It was just at this moment, you're getting untethered. We left Nashville. She flew to LA to be with me during rehearsals. And this was like four days after we'd reconnected.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then she had to leave again. She was shooting Shame.

[A]

But then somehow, Inside Lynn Davis, inside Llewyn Davis, Is that somehow part of this?

[C]

No. That comes a bit later, when we played with Dylan at the Grammys. That was the first time I met T Bone Burnett, who has become like a sort of fairy godfather to me in music. And he said, anytime from now on that I'm doing something interesting or that you're doing something, let's call each other.

[B]

That's awesome.

[C]

So then when the Coen brothers called him to do Inside, Lynn called me and said, do you want to come and be my. I don't know what the title was, associate producer or something. And so I just was there, and Carrie was in the movie.

[A]

Do we start singing in church?

[C]

Not really.

[A]

When's music start?

[C]

Music starts early, like pots and pans playing drums. And I was a drummer.

[A]

And who was your Bonham? Who was your God?

[C]

Yeah, I was more Bonham than star. You were one or the other. But I became star.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

While Ringo, later, my guy was a guy called Terry o', Nelly, who's a jazz drummer, played for a guy called Christian McBride. And I went and saw him play with my skateboard. He signed my skateboard when I was like, 13 at Pizza Express SoHo with my mom.

[A]

Was mom or dad super into music?

[C]

They were all very into music. None of them played anything.

[B]

They just played it in the house.

[A]

I'm just curious, did they stick with the church?

[C]

Still guy life?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Retired.

[A]

Because I do think we interview a lot of people, generally more R B singers, females, who they grew up singing in church. It's such this great tradition. And I do worry, as much as I have my reservations about religion. Most of all of our R and B, it starts in church in America. And I just wonder, like, as that fragments, where's the next crop? Where all these young kids start learning to sing like that.

[C]

Yeah. And school choirs. I didn't get into the main school choir, so I was in the B team and learned to sing harmony. Which was fun and very helpful, I

[A]

was going to say. That's a good skill. Probably.

[C]

We wouldn't sing, what, tenor parts? We'd sing the alto parts. And my mum was an alto too, so she always sang harmony in the kitchen, whatever we listened to.

[A]

And what kit were you playing? Did you have the kit you wanted?

[C]

Yes. I did get a Yamaha maple, which is what I wanted. And it was natural wood.

[A]

Well, that's handsome.

[C]

It was great. Very functional. It was a workhorse.

[A]

Do you collect drum sets?

[C]

I do.

[B]

What's the coolest one you got?

[C]

I have red sparkle Ludwig 60s kit.

[A]

Okay, great.

[C]

And a champagne sparkle 60s kit. And I really like these CNC kits that are new.

[A]

And then what about guitar? When do we pick up guitar?

[C]

Towards late teens.

[A]

And so you were a skateboarder into jazz who is going to church.

[C]

Yeah. With peroxide blonde hair at a public school. Sublime. Because the Californian influence in my life, no one else was listening to Neil Young at home, no one else was listening to Sublime. So I always had that little extra cultural lane.

[A]

Now I was a skateboarder. Punk rock, bleached hair, spike the whole night. And really, I was just so insecure. I was rejecting the other style I didn't think I could nail. But it read as incredible confidence to my peers. Thank God. Did that happen with you?

[C]

I got sent home from school.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Because I wasn't allowed blonde hair, which is. Yeah.

[A]

An incredible.

[C]

So that was the kind of school I went to.

[A]

Yeah. King's College or your research teams? He is the research team.

[B]

He does it on his own.

[A]

But it's a public school. I guess I thought maybe you would have gone to, like, no religious school.

[C]

We call it public, but it's private. Oh. So my parents spent all of their church salary on my education, which is why then when I left college, it was a responsibility.

[A]

Yeah. You go to Edinburgh University.

[C]

Yeah. Because we had no other. They spent all of their money on my education.

[B]

So you felt like you needed to pay them back.

[C]

So I felt slightly so in terms of my arrested Development. Felt like I was on sabbatical from university from, like, most of my career until now. I feel comfortable in my skin and this new record that we've made is my favorite thing we've ever done. And I feel like now is the moment where I get to really embrace being an artist.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Whereas before I was. Felt like I was kind of moonlighting.

[B]

Proving yourself.

[C]

Not so much that. It was just like I was on a track.

[A]

You have been feeling like you're Supposed to return to University for 20 years and now you finally don't feel like you need to return.

[C]

Yeah. And this record, this prize fighter record is like for me, that's why.

[A]

But how is it going socially, these interests in this extreme?

[C]

Look, it's going fine. I was always like a slight outsider. I wasn't the best at anything, but I tried everything.

[A]

Was it all boys? Yeah.

[C]

And I went to school with Ben in the band from the age of eight.

[A]

Were you guys best friends or just. You ended up having mutual interest?

[C]

Yeah, no, we were.

[A]

Yeah. It must be so fun to be able to share it with this kid you've known since you were eight.

[C]

And now the three of us close to brotherhood or indeed marriage.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because it is more like marriage, really. Because the only other person in the world who has experienced that is Ben and Ted.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

We also have to navigate stuff that normally I don't think you navigate with

[B]

a co worker or a friendship. There's something when you're both that it takes everything up to a different level

[A]

of intimacy because these natural things, there's highs and lows. The highs are great to share, but the lows are like no one involved has a clear head because everyone's suffering at that moment. It's not a great.

[C]

You're communally going through something.

[A]

Yeah. There's no outsider unaffected by the thing to be objective.

[C]

Which is why when we're making records, I like to work with producers. Because some people are like, why don't you just self produce? You guys know your way around a

[A]

prototype and you produce things on your own.

[C]

Yeah, things for other people. But I like having the objectivity of someone else who hasn't looked at the

[A]

tickets or got burned on a song you love.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

This is like that other thing we did that we got fucked on.

[C]

Exactly. So the objectivity of a producer. And then for us on this new Armed Prize Fighter, we had Aaron Dessner, who's known us for 15 years or something, helped us with the demos for our third record, has been a friend of ours for a long time, seen us go through lots. Also happens to be in one of my favorite bands of all time. The national has had this production career with people like Taylor Swift and Gracie Abrams that's gone crazy. And so to have him come in at this point and be that objective voice knows us all really well. We trust him, he trusts us. The dream.

[A]

You're also at a stage in your career that I too am at, where it's like. Like all these kids that were Trying were now all at these award shows, which is bonkers. It's like, I look around the Golden Globes and I'm like, oh, Ben and Melissa, who. We rented theaters and no one came. You're starting to see friends that are now producing for Taylor Swift or whatever. The thing is happening.

[C]

It's pretty wild. And London, when we first started as a band, was amazing for music. People that really inspired us, like Laura Marling and Nur and the. Well. But also at that time, it was Adele and Florence and these amazing artists that have obviously. So we've seen a lot of them go. Adele presented our album of the year at the Grammys. The only reason I think we got anywhere close to winning it was because she wasn't like. She didn't have a rally. But for her to give that to us is so sweet. Our contemporaries a are some of our biggest inspirations, but also we've seen their success right the way through from very early on, which is kind of a unique thing.

[A]

Okay, so you're playing drums. When do you start playing not just in your room, but with other people? What age?

[C]

We play at weddings and balloons, bar mitzvahs and birthday parties from the age of like, 12 to make pocket money. And then publicly. The first time I sang a song, I think, was for a music exam when I was 16. I did a version of all along the Watchtower by Bob Dylan.

[A]

What was the effect?

[C]

It went down much better than I thought it would.

[A]

Was that the first mini hit where you're like, oh, shit. Some people are looking at me a little differently.

[C]

Yeah. And then I played a bit. I didn't really do very much until my year out. Between high school and college, I lived in Denver.

[A]

Denver, Colorado? Yeah.

[C]

Cause I had a US passport, so I could come and work dual citizenship, soccer coach in Denver and would play open mics. Lots of clove cigarettes and would do open mics. And they went, all right. And then I went to college, and amongst my cynical British friends, when I dropped out to go and do music, they were all like, really mate, Right? Cause they bend at the open mics.

[A]

We're not at dropout stage yet. We're not.

[C]

We're not. I had a friend who took me to one side and was like, I'm not sure this is a great decision.

[B]

Wow. Is he still a friend?

[A]

I hope you bought him a Range Rover. Exactly, exactly.

[C]

Yeah. It was really at college that I started doing open mics. And then I quit to go play drums. Cause I was a session musician to go play Drums for Laura Marling. And then she invited me up to come and sing a song in her encore at the end of her show, which was like a hootenanny moment. And that's when her manager spotted me and was like, you should do this.

[A]

So how do we assemble Mumford in the sons 2007?

[C]

Two weeks after that, I said to him, like, I think it's a band. I don't think it's a solo project. I've been doing writing and recording some demos at Ben's house. He lived with his parents still, and they had an attic with a little studio in that you had to climb through the little cubbyhole.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[C]

To get in.

[A]

Carrying fucking equipment up there.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It was a nightmare. Very hot. No ac. And had been doing some demos and then inviting anyone I knew who was playing in other bands, we were all playing in other bands at that point to come play these songs with me. And at times there'd be like 14 of us on stage. But what we noticed was that at that time, when the four of us sang together and played together, it felt different to when everyone else was in the room.

[A]

So I know how you know Ben, Obviously, he's been a friend since you were a little kid. How do you meet the other two guys?

[C]

Yeah, Winston I met at church when we were, like, 15.

[A]

You've known him at that point, too.

[C]

And then Ted, we met in London when I quit college and he was a bass player. He showed up with the coolest pair of boots and a leather jacket I'd ever seen in my life and could sing and play double bass. It was like, oh, this guy's a triple threat.

[A]

It's funny how often when I watch docs on bands, how much of it is that, like, so and so walked in and their hair was awesome. And it's like the music's kind of secondary to the vibe.

[C]

But then when he opens mouth to sing, it's like, oh, wow, he's got this really unusual voice and he can sing harmony and it was cool.

[A]

Did you watch It Might Get Loud, that drumming documentary?

[C]

No. No, I didn't.

[A]

Oh, it's so great. Okay, then, never mind that. And then there's another doc I want to know if you watched. Oh, did you watch the Zeppelin doc that was out last year?

[C]

I haven't watched that yet.

[A]

Okay. What is unbelievable about that band is they met and I think six weeks later they played that first show we've all seen in Black and white, which might be still their best show. They ever played.

[C]

I've only inherited other people's views about this documentary, but it seems that they were all totally obsessed with Bob. Them.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that it was like Jimmy's band.

[A]

I don't know that I focused on that as much as. Just obviously they had all been working a lot, so it's not like they were green in that sense. But the notion that these strangers could have come together and played that show in six weeks, it's so mind blowing. You just kind of got to believe in magic a tiny bit.

[C]

Oh, I totally believe in magic. I think writing songs is like trying to catch fairies and nets. Noel Gallagher talks about it like, everyone knows songs fall from the sky by magic, and you just have to have your hands out ready to catch them. Otherwise Bono or Chris Martin,

[A]

because these sons of clearly have their hands.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. So I bumped into him in a bar in London a few years ago, and we just finished a tour. And he was like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm just chilling out. And he's like, what the are you talking about? You're a songwriter. You gotta get to work, write songs. You have no excuse not to write songs. It's your job. What are you doing? And it was like, oh, he's right. Right, I better go and write some songs.

[A]

How long before the four of you were playing that it was clicking? You were putting songs down that you thought had merit. Was that a quick process?

[C]

It was quite quick. I had a collection of songs I'd written at college. Sort of naked on my dorm room floor.

[A]

Very raw, too.

[C]

Raw.

[A]

Indulgent.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay, sure.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, Good. Trying to put T.S. eliot to song, you know, it's that kind of indulgence. It was a nightmare.

[B]

It's hard not to be pretentious.

[C]

It is.

[A]

You have to be or you'll never make it.

[C]

But I had started honing my narcissism well enough to be able to write songs, I think. And then we started playing a couple shows, and then we got asked to support other bands. And that was helpful because it was like, right, well, we need enough songs to fill that set. So. I remember the day I wrote Little Iron man and My Ex Girlfriend's Kitchen, which was probably a bit rough, but then showed up at the rehearsal studio, like, three hours before soundcheck and was like, lads, I think I've got another one for the set. And they were like, phew. Because we only had, like, five at that point.

[A]

Yeah. What were you expected to play, like, 35 minutes or something?

[C]

Yeah, like half an hour. That's six songs. And you feel half an hour with a bit of chat. Sometimes a bit more chat.

[A]

Isn't it funny, too, how much of this stuff, there's no science to it, but there is. Like the infamous Beatles stuff. They're playing in Germany forever. They're just playing.

[C]

They were honing there.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I mean, that documentary is my favorite music documentary.

[A]

Peter.

[C]

Yeah, Peter Jackson one.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's nine hours, which is shorter than your average day in the studio.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But watching that documentary, I mean, it's the most beautiful. I think you get an idea of some of the hanging around. You know, you're watching like, Ringo twiddling. Ringo's always on Twitter time. He's always ready to play. He's always sticks in hand, waiting for the moment to come.

[A]

Very underrated drummer.

[C]

He gets a different tone out of the drum set to any other drama in history. And then Jim Keltner, who played on all the Beatles solo records, he's now like 82. I recorded with him a couple years ago. He is one of the coolest cats of all time and Bob Dylan's drummer. And, you know, like, he gets a different kind of tone out of the drums to anyone else. And these great drummers, I think, think are able to do things and just hit a drum in a way that no one else can.

[A]

Admittedly, I didn't like the Beatles. My mom had positioned it as. This house is a Rolling Stones house.

[C]

Really.

[A]

We're not talking about I want to hold your hand. We're talking about I got a girl pregnant.

[C]

Interesting.

[A]

We're fucking gnarly.

[C]

See, we were an Oasis house, not a Blur house.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

Yeah, you do.

[A]

And have you come to appreciate Blur Sense? Yeah, yeah, I have.

[C]

But I'm still an Oasis guy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right. And I'm a Stones guy.

[C]

You can't change that. Really?

[A]

That's just. Really?

[B]

That's wild.

[C]

It's the tribalism.

[B]

Yeah, it is. But that comes from growing up in a house where your parents care. I didn't. So I just like it all.

[A]

They didn't have their identity infused with what bands they were. Exactly.

[B]

There was no identity connected to it.

[C]

So you were free. You're a free agent.

[B]

Free can take it all.

[C]

So what did it lead you to?

[A]

Taylor Swift.

[B]

You?

[C]

Taylor?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, Taylor.

[C]

No, but as a kid, what did it lead you to?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Taylor was a little later. I'm top 40.

[C]

Britney.

[B]

Britney. Yes, yes. Spice Girls. Hanson. Like the big Hanson.

[C]

Remember Hanson Love Hanson. Love Hanson.

[B]

Oh, my God. Really?

[C]

I think I did a cover of that actually, back in the day.

[B]

You did? That was my first cd.

[A]

Was it?

[C]

Mine was Pure Shores by All Saints, All Saints, I love as a single. And then the first record I bought myself, I bought two from the CD Exchange on Wimbledon, Broadway. I bought Kind of Blue by Miles Davis under instruction from my drum teacher, because he was like, you'll play what you listen to. You got to play that. And then for myself, I bought Mr. Education at Lauren Hill.

[B]

Oh, amazing. I mean, my first. I was more in the.

[C]

You're an inbo. I'm just saying. All Saints tlc.

[B]

I love tlc. I loved All Saints Robin. Yeah, all of it. Lily Robin Sick.

[A]

But Monica will be the first to admit most of her musical tastes came from film and television. If she saw something on tv, she

[B]

heard something, rather a soundtrack. I was like, I want that song. Like, once it was into buying songs like Napster and stuff like that.

[C]

So what were the shows that led

[B]

you to, like, Grey's Anatomy, One Tree Hill. I was on a One Tree Hill.

[C]

No. Okay, so Grey's Anatomy.

[B]

Yes, obviously.

[C]

So when Garden State came out, did it change your life? Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I get you. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I know you.

[C]

I know you.

[A]

I see you.

[C]

Listen, I've changed.

[B]

I've become cool.

[C]

But no, I was a sponge.

[B]

I was a sponge to all of that. The shins. Oh, my God. Yeah. But no, it was great. It was great. I was open to it all.

[C]

That's cool.

[A]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Apple TV, the new U.S. home of Formula One. You can now watch complete all access live coverage of every Grand Prix, including practice, qualifying and sprints, all in one place. I will be consuming all of those things, Monica.

[B]

I know you will.

[A]

I kill for Friday to start watching practice one following and then on a sprint weekend. Oh, my gosh, two races. And this season brings a ton of new energy to the sport. New teams like Cadillac and Audi just joining the grid. New drivers stepping into major seasons seats. Lando Norris defending his first World Drivers Championship. And all eyes on Lewis Hamilton in his second season with Ferrari. And a brand new circuit in Madrid, plus a new US home for Formula One. You can watch every race live only on Apple TV. Watch on Apple devices, Android devices, smart TV streaming devices, gaming consoles or on the web at tv.apple.com all part of one Apple TV subscription alongside hundreds of exclusive shows and movies. Watch the Formula One Australian Grand Prix live on Saturday, March 7 at 11pm Eastern or watch race replays on demand anytime Only on Apple TV, the new US home of F1. We are supported by Allstate checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking your phone's battery before heading out. That'll get you every time. Of course, your phone dies on the way to meet someone, leaving you wandering around quietly panicking about being in the wrong spot. Yeah, checking first is smart, so check all state first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Company affiliates Northbrook, Illinois we are supported by Intuit Turbo Tax April 15th is coming up fast and if you're like most people, you're probably dreading the whole tax thing. You know, the old way, sitting in some waiting room for hours or sending over your tax docs and waiting and waiting for any kind of update. You want something modern and tech forward, but you also want that human connection. And this year brings a major upgrade. Intuit Turbo Tax now has in person locations nationwide. You can walk into a tech enabled Turbo Tax location near you and meet face to face with a real tax expert. Drop off your documents in the store and see them uploaded to your TurboTax app instantly. Just like. Like that, you're done. Your new TurboTax expert stays back and works tirelessly to get you every dollar you deserve while you get real time notifications as you go about your day. Honestly, it feels like someone finally figured out what we've all been wanting. It's not some sterile tax office from 1987 and it's not just an app where you're on your own, it's both. The human expertise was smart, modern tech. You drop off your stuff, go about your day and get real time updates as your expert works through everything. That's the Upgrade. Head to TurboTax.com to find a store location near you and get matched with a TurboTax expert with real time updates and iOS app. Mine was I have to like punk rock. I'm going to these shows. None of them are melodic. I hate it all, but I'm pretending I love it. And then I'm just looking for anything with some melody so I'm just following.

[C]

So did Blink182 like change your life?

[A]

Well, I'm so much older. I saw Exploited When I was 11 years old, my brother, I saw Black Flag and they're trashy.

[C]

As a teenager I went through Post sublime, probably. I went through like Papa Roach and Blink182.

[A]

I love Blink182. Let me be clear.

[C]

And then I was starting to go off at some 41 when that started. I loved it. And then I was like, that was the end of my.

[A]

I'm gonna get off the train here. I'm at my stop. Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Actually interesting now that we're talking about it, because I think that the reason there are clubs is I wanted to be like everybody else.

[C]

You wanted to conform.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly. So I'm picking top 40. I'm picking what's on TRL.

[A]

You want to be able to talk with your friends about what's popular.

[B]

I want to be normal. Regular.

[C]

That's interesting because I get to like, 18. I want to do something no one else is doing.

[B]

Yeah, you want to be different.

[A]

This is our freedom of being white.

[C]

Right? Interesting.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm like, wait, you guys are nerdy and I want to be the opposite.

[C]

That's interesting.

[A]

She's like, I'm brown. Please don't notice I'm brown. I do all the same shit you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't that weird if you were white. I wonder what your musical taste is.

[C]

Well, the truth is, you probably still like to Taylor Swift.

[B]

Of course.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. That's the great unifier. 10 million tickets.

[B]

That's why she is who she is.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so I want to jump to you record Sing no more. It comes out in 2009 and it's a monster. I mean, you get nominated for two Grammys. Little Lineman is enormous. How do you take that on?

[C]

We just play shows. That's the only answer we had is

[A]

keep your head down and play shows.

[C]

Just play shows. We were probably a bit dismissive of. Of the world's reaction to our music for a long time because we were like blinkers on head down. Just play shows. That's the thing we can understand. I can't understand how our song suddenly got big in Australia on the radio. Yeah, I can't get my head around that. But I can get my head around playing a show in Melbourne. And so still now I don't look at streaming numbers. I don't look at social responses. I don't look at radio plays.

[A]

Are you, like, healthy? And you didn't care about money? I care about money so much.

[C]

No. Yeah. Our household didn't have expendable money, but my parents instilled in us a spirit of generosity. We were taught to tithe as kids. Give away 10% of everything you Ever get. I mean, the belief system is like, it's not ours anyway.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It's closest to a sort of Native American view of ownership and stewardship. But it was like ticket sales is what we can understand.

[A]

Right. You can see that the venues are getting bigger.

[C]

Yeah. And we climbed all the rungs on the ladder. We didn't skip any. But we only did them all once, and most bands do them 10 times.

[A]

How are you making peace with the tension of.

[C]

Of.

[A]

I'm an outsider, I'm not with you guys, and this is my art and. Oh, no, it's for everyone. Everyone likes it. There's a little bit of tension there. No.

[C]

Well, I think I probably responded to that by driving my negative narrative and finding the negatives. In any review I would read, which I did at the beginning, I'd always read them. I'd pick out the one line that hurt the most and I'd dwell on that.

[A]

I knew you didn't really accept me. You were acting like you accepted me. But I have the proof. I'm not really.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everyone thinks I'm actually kind of in a car. Yeah.

[A]

So brutal. And you miss so much.

[C]

I mean, we had fun, but I was not present to a lot of the early success of our band because I was either in the negative narrative or I was like, let's move on quickly because this isn't going to last. So we have to build for the next thing.

[A]

You can have this paradox of actively hating parts of it and then maybe fearful the next one's not going to be as good. You can also still want to keep it. Right.

[C]

Yeah. I haven't felt this level of a sense of pride in our work, honestly, ever, till this record. It's really frightened. I just fucking love it. And I don't really care if other people like it or not. For the first time, that's huge. It's massive. I think it's a lot of personal growth and all that boring stuff, but I really don't care what people think. I love it and I'm excited to play it every night. If people come along for the ride, then great. But if not genuinely for the first time, I don't think it'll hurt my feelings.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. To that same extent of, like, the rawness, and I think that's the vulnerability of artists, and that's fine. Your job is to feel things.

[A]

I just think this is cool because we just had Stapleton on and Luke Combs had this moment. A lot of these musicians, now that we're Interviewing have had these moments where you performed at the Grammys and then the album went up 99% in sales. There's very few moments that are. That make it or break it.

[C]

I don't think I was aware to that extent what the Grammys could do in terms of moving the camera.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I was still shitting myself. I was still very nervous. But, like, I had that feeling with the first TV appearance we did.

[A]

Did you love Letterman?

[C]

I did love Letterman and was like, where's your drummer? I was like,

[A]

I think he plays drums. Maybe.

[C]

Does he?

[A]

Maybe that's my.

[C]

But no. Our first TV appearance was here in LA with Craig Ferguson, Love. And I broke two strings and forgot all the words.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

And it was a disaster. Oh, no,

[B]

that's horrifying.

[C]

That was awful. And so they were like, we have to move on. Sorry. We had to play a different song. Wow.

[A]

It was a disaster. I'm so sorry. But was Craig great at helping you?

[C]

Yeah, he was sweet. No one could really help me at that moment.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, Jack Daniel's gonna help.

[C]

There was no help. But no, the Grammys was made fun by the. That Dylan was so weird and wonderful. That first one, we'd rehearsed for two days. We'd done all the camera rehearsals. We were aware that it was going out to 50 million people or whatever it is. And we play a song. We come back behind the curtain. Avett Brothers play a song. And then we were all supposed to go on together and play Maggie's Farm. So we play a cave. Avet Brothers go on, we walk behind the curtain. Bob's there and he goes, play that again. And I went, what? And I'm still holding my guitar. And he goes, play that again. And it was a cave. So I started playing. Went to start playing banjo and he was like, I can sing on that. And we went, what? And he went, I want to sing on that. And I sing Maggie's Farm on that. And we're like, we'll do what you want because you're fucking Bob Dylan, right?

[A]

But you've already played it.

[C]

We just rehearsed it and we've already played the Cage. And he wants to change the whole arrangement right there. Luckily, Tony, his bass player, who's the Bob Whisperer, comes over and is like, calm down, Bob. We're going to do it like the Ear Hustle.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Did you watch the Greatest Night Music? It's about the recording of We Are the Ones World.

[C]

Oh, no, I don't see that. No, you'll tell. I don't really watch music documentaries.

[A]

I'm learning that, and I get it.

[C]

Do you listen to other people's podcasts?

[A]

No. And I wouldn't watch a comedy doc, but of course I watch music. What is cool about the doc, I think you would appreciate is we have everyone. Who do you want? They're all there, right? You have Michael Jackson. You got hall and Oates. You've got Stevie Wonder, Bob Dylan. Everyone's there. So to see them all, it's a really wide thing to observe. But Bob can't sing like the other folks. That's not what he does. Right. And he is struggling, and there's a moment where Stevie Wonder, who can do everybody. He's a crazy mimic. He says, you want to sing it like this. And he does Bob Dylan, and it's on film and you can't tell it's not Bob Dylan. And he uses his voice and his range to show him how he should do it. And then Bob's like, okay. And then he does it. That's such a cool moment.

[C]

That's really cool.

[A]

All right. You're not going to watch it. You hate music. Do you think you don't like him because it's intimidating or it's just boring because that's what you do?

[C]

It's boring because that's what I do.

[A]

I gotcha. Okay.

[C]

I think unless it's Get Back. Unless it's the Beatles, movies about musicians don't really do that. I didn't watch Springsteen movie yet. Even though I'm obsessed with Bruce Springsteen. I get that Star is Born, I thought depicted tor life the most accurately out of any of them.

[A]

Although you don't know because you've only seen one or two.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[A]

That's not a great look of the one I sampled.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

You went to Baskin Robbins. You tried one flavor. You know the best flavor of the 31 flavors is vanilla. That's true.

[C]

That's true. To be fair.

[A]

Okay, tell me about going to India in 2010. Or don't if it's not interesting.

[C]

No, we just didn't really have an audience in India, but we went anyway. Got told to go back to our own country at our last show in Kolkata.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Which I think was fair. Was fair because given, you know, the innate racism in England, the other way around, it's like, yeah, fair enough. We probably earned that historically. But it was amazing. We like touring in weird ways and doing things that feel scary. We'd Just done this train tour.

[A]

That was next time. Yeah.

[C]

So India was awesome. It was really fun. I mean, it was very hectic. It was stupid, but fun.

[A]

Did you have in the back of your mind, though, that the Beatles went there?

[C]

A little bit and it was just an adventure. We'd done a tour on a narrow boat at four miles an hour. That was really fun. And we were like, let's go to India and do that.

[A]

Yeah. So the thing I loved about reading about your history is I too, love when you can take this thing that you do. That's your job, and you can figure out a way to leverage it into a bunch of other crazy experiences that kind of have nothing to do with it, because otherwise you can miss it. It can all go by. I read about this railroad tour. Yeah. You guys had vintage railroad cars you were in.

[C]

Yeah. We did one with Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeros and old Crew medicine show in 2011 or 12 or something like that.

[A]

11.

[C]

Thank you. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And we were like, let's do that again. Now, the train thing is fun for the artists.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The audience doesn't really get involved in that because you can only fit, like, 100 people on it. But. Yeah.

[A]

Tell me about your car.

[C]

Bunch of vintage rail cars all linked together that go around the country. So the first one went from Oakland down the west coast across to. We ended up in New Orleans. And the second one, we started in New Orleans and ended in Burlington, Vermont. And for us, a lot of it is seeing places we wouldn't otherwise see. Like, I've seen more of this country than most of my friends who live here.

[A]

Sure. And I'll argue, on a train, you're seeing the backyard of everything on a highway, you're seeing the front yard.

[C]

Totally. It's amazing. And I like to stay up in the middle of the night and sit in the front of the bus and watch. Watch the world go by, particularly in North America, because I just find it fascinating, like being stuck in an electrical storm in Kansas in the middle of the night. Is any tornadoes seen? Some tornadoes.

[A]

Nothing like it. Right.

[C]

Stone's always really fun, but was the car itself.

[A]

Did you have your own car?

[C]

No, we had our own room.

[A]

And was it from the 40s, 50s, 60s? You know, was it wood panel?

[C]

Song was wood paneled. And I would say 50s, I think

[A]

it was there, like a cocktail. Like, was there a little bar?

[C]

Yeah. Like, the people running the train are all in outfits. Oh, it's fun.

[A]

I'm so jealous.

[C]

And then we'd rehearse every day because we had these guests come and join us and so we'd learn their songs on the train on our way to soundcheck and then when we get there, we'd play it.

[B]

We should do that. We should do a live show train experience.

[A]

It would be a net loss.

[C]

We were. But we don't do it to make any money. You're not going to make any money.

[B]

Yeah, it's not.

[C]

We had this conversation with our management company. We're like, look, we're not going to make any money. You're definitely not going to make any money for this one. We had a house ban and we paid everyone the same amount of money, like a flat fee, including ourselves. We're like, look, it's an experience. This is like a five day vacation where we're working.

[A]

Did you take psychedelics on the train?

[C]

No, you don't need to.

[A]

Okay. I would think that would have enhanced it.

[C]

I went on this trip down the Grand Canyon with a bunch of people I didn't know. And we get to the bottom and it's like eight days of rafting and staying on the beach. Unbelievable. And at the end of it we find out they would all been on acid the whole time. I was like, this is the one place in the world you definitely don't need acid, man. And those rapids, doing them on kayaks, they're pretty dangerous.

[A]

But no better way to drown. O, you gotta drown, man. You think you're drowning in like Willy Wonka's chocolate river?

[C]

No, I'm a control freak for that.

[B]

Stuff like that.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Is everyone in the band on the same page? For the most part. Even when we're talking about you guys coming up, you're like tunnel vision. Head down. Are you all like that?

[C]

Yeah, we are. Ted, our bass player is a bit more chill. We need that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Ben and I are like in it on everything. El man recently said to us. Like most artists come to just know where they need to be when don't go to this level of detail. But we're quite details oriented. We care about it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I need to say though that I will wait. Came out. That was enormous. You won the Grammy fastest selling album of the year. Things are fucking cranking. Yeah, that's what I'm told. 600,000 in the first week. That's bonkers. And in UK, I think 400 is also the fastest selling album that year in the uk. You can't go anywhere without Mumford and Sons at this point. That's right. I want to go to your solo album. Album, which is 2022, self titled. I want to bond with you on this experience, which is. I have for years on here been acknowledging that I had been molested. And that was its own hurdle to just say that. And I got quite comfortable being able to say that that was fine. And now I'm writing a memoir. And last year, really the whole year was about do I have the balls to write down the details of this? Because the details were always going to be. I didn't want anyone to be envisioning me. It's weird that that was still some wall between my shame.

[C]

Interesting.

[A]

Like I can say that happened, but I don't need you to know anything that actually happened. And I bet it took me four months to tell that story. And when I'm writing it just I cannot help but thinking of people knowing this about me and how still exposed that feels. And I was pretty emotional during the few months I was having really weird kind of sp. Spikes of emotions and moodiness and I would forget that's why I was having that. But I finished it. And something about it existing there feels like a lot of weight is off my shoulders. But for me, there's still the hurdle of like. And also, I've not put that out.

[C]

Yeah, okay. That wasn't going to be my question. I was like, did you put that out? And I didn't hear right.

[A]

So I can understand writing Cannibal because it's about his sexual abuse. There's details.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Dude, I listen to that song.

[B]

This one.

[C]

I was like, yeah, that sounds pretty intense.

[A]

What's the gap between writing it and then knowing, okay, now I'm gonna put it in the world and people will know all this about me?

[C]

I mean, I was pretty scared, honestly.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

And yeah, it's pretty detailed. I mean, I played it to a few people who are very helpful. I played it to Elton John, played it to Brandi Carlisle. Elton was like, I've never heard anything like this and I'll do anything to help you if you want to put it out. And Brandi had said, exactly so. Same thing. Like, I'm with you.

[A]

Is it shocking how many of us.

[C]

Yeah. And part of the exhausting process of putting out is hearing other people's stories.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Cuz you.

[A]

You need to comfort them. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Well, yeah. And it's an absolute privilege. And my general view on it has been, all right, I'm going to have boundaries around this. I'm going to say, like, thank you so much for sharing that. I Hope you have what you need.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I'm not your guy. It'd be fucked up, wouldn't it? Like, I'm not going to be your guy on this.

[A]

Yeah, I can't.

[C]

Yeah, I can't. And that wouldn't serve. You obviously wouldn't serve. And Putting out was straight. And then the rest of the record is not really about that, but because that was the first song, it got a lot of attention. I feel, like, grateful that I put it out. I honestly feel glad I have also been able to move on. And I think without it, I wouldn't have come back to the band as energized or as joyful or as free. And I think that's a big part of the freedom that I now feel in the band is like, I got that. I moved on. It's out there. I talked record it. It was great musically. I'm very proud of it, the whole record. And it helped my songwriting, and it certainly helped my ability to accept myself.

[A]

Well, my body keeps betraying me is a line. Yeah, the body betraying me. Putting that out of your body to there. Has that helped in any of that?

[C]

Yeah. Like, I've been on a real journey the last few years, and part of that was not feeling like a victim, I think, and being like, I've got control of this. I can drive this train. I'm not just a passenger. And I won't just be a passenger. Passive.

[A]

My thing is, I can intellectually know how ridiculous the statement is, but emotionally, I don't know it in my body, which is. I grew up in such a homophobic environment in Detroit in the 80s, you lived all day long in fear that someone might think you were gay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And now I've done this thing that does make me gay in my mind. And now I have this secret that I know if it were to be revealed on the playground, I'm just dead. I'm a pariah. I know intellectually that's insane at 51 with a family and all these things.

[B]

Things.

[A]

But that fear of the whole world going back to elementary is still alive in me in this crazy way. It's shocking to me.

[C]

And so what's your process now? Having written it, I felt that wave

[A]

of relief that you're talking about. And then I have fear of people reading it. And then even more, I have the fear of what I'm doing to you right now, which is like, I want to be able to put it out, and I don't ever want to have to talk to you about It.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. That's funny.

[C]

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

[B]

You've done baby steps. Like, was this the first time anyone's ever known about that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And the second song on the record is about the process of playing my mother. The first song.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Well, how should we proceed without this getting too heavy? Is the first line of the second song on the record.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But we talk about it on here. You are very open. I mean, not with the details, but with that something you've gone through.

[A]

But I'm in control of it. Right? Like you're not going to. Going, well, why didn't you blank? Or why didn't you tell your mom

[B]

or why about the types of questions.

[A]

So, yeah, it's just the loss of control of me being able to say exactly how. So while me and you waited three years, what happened to me? I got really lucky in a sense, which is I was in high school. I'd been carrying it for, I guess, 10 years or whatever. And I was talking with a girl I went to school with who I liked so much as just a friend.

[C]

This is Danielle again, not Danielle Fox.

[A]

I would have never risked her thinking I was gay, but this girl was vulnerable enough to tell me that she had been raped the year before.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And I'm kind of sitting there with that really special trust that she just extended to me in my lap. And I just kind of felt myself saying it out loud. Honest to God, as stupid as this is to look at her face and the fact she didn't say, oh, so you're gay? I went, oh, my God. This whole story, I think I'm telling myself, might be wrong. She doesn't think I'm damaged.

[C]

I mean, that's certainly my experience as women led me through.

[A]

Of course.

[C]

You know, it's so interesting and probably quite common that as a man, if you allow yourself to be vulnerable enough to a woman, often you'll find that going to lead you to the promised land. And that's certainly my experience is people like my wife and Brandy and Phoebe Bridges.

[A]

Yeah, it's powerful, man. It's pretty life changing.

[C]

I mean, it was also quite funny playing my mum that song.

[A]

Like, how long did it take her to put together what the song was? Was it immediate for her?

[C]

Yeah. And painful for her.

[A]

Of course. You have children.

[C]

Yeah. And just the sense that, like, she spent all this time not being able to support me in something.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

But fucked up to tell your mum through song.

[B]

So I'm playing you a new thing

[C]

Tell me what you want to hear.

[A]

A demo.

[C]

It's quite funny. Bless her, she's a legend. Love my parents.

[A]

Stay tuned for more armchair experts, if you dare. Why the Gap? I mean, obviously you did your solo album in there, but why the seven year gap?

[C]

Covid Winston left the band. I made a solo record. Then we're in the studio for two

[A]

years and now really quick, because last year, March. Yeah.

[C]

So we got back in together in the studio, like January 20th. In fact, I was on my solo, I was playing at the Ryman in Nashville and the boys, Ted and Ben came out for that show and I said, lads, should we sing a song together? We sang our await together for the first time in a few years and it felt magic. Yeah, just a guitar and them two and three of us singing together. This very special place to us. And that was the moment where we were like, let's do this. And I think healthily, everyone had had a bit of a break, a bit of a reset.

[A]

Was there any sense that you would not come back together?

[C]

No, I don't think so. It was just a matter of time. But then January 23rd, we were here in Los Angeles actually, and we met up, the three of us, at my house down the road when we had it and we played a few ideas that have been kicking around. They turned into Rushmere. But then we felt like we weren't done. While we were mixing Rushmere, Aaron Dessner was next door working and came in and played us a couple things he'd been working on that didn't have lyrics or melody yet. And we responded to it and started making Prize Fight and like right there.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

And I. I think the freeing experience for me of getting solo record then Rushmere out meant that when we came to sit down to do Prizefighter with Aaron, this long term friend, we were just ready. My hands were out, ready to catch the songs. We were in shape and the muscles were all working. There were no injuries and we were in like our prime. And that's why we called it Prizefighter. We felt like we were just ready. We'd also spent a summer with Pharrell Williams in Paris writing songs and hanging out. And he's like a therapist. He was like, sit us down. And certainly me gave me a lot of pep talk. Super helpful. So by the time we came to Erin, we were just in a good spot. And so these songs just poured out of us. Oh, and they're the closest to source terms of the writing and the recording we've ever done. We'd like write it in the morning and record it in the afternoon and be done and walk away.

[A]

It's a very live feel, the feeling

[C]

you get as a vocalist for sure. The closer you can record a vocal to when you wrote it, the better. On the first record, we did a demo at Ben's house that I played and recorded at his house in his parents Atticus. And then when we came to record sileno More 18 months later, we couldn't get the same emotion in that vocal, so we just used the demo eventually on White Blank Page, that song, the

[A]

crashing out song, by acting so similar,

[C]

you got to grab the emotion while it's there and then when it's gone to catching fairies, man.

[A]

Better actors is no problem. My wife being like, oh yeah, I do that. No fucking problem. I could have done that in the back of a spaceship if you needed me to.

[B]

That's how you can really tell when someone can just show up and be perfect every time. Acting wise, we call them acting robots. It's like, yeah, I don't know how they're doing.

[C]

Yeah, it's really annoying, isn't it?

[B]

It is annoying. I don't like them.

[C]

Fuck em.

[A]

Okay. No, I want to extend a compliment and ask if you feel it. When we had Seth Rogen on and we were talking about the studio, did you watch the studio? I did, yeah. Okay, great. You've seen one thing together

[B]

that's not a music video.

[C]

That's fun.

[A]

But what I see is not just an incredible show. I see the results of an incredibly generous life that every one of these people would have shown up to party. And there's a lot of successful actors that they couldn't assemble. Five other ex co stars.

[C]

Right. So you think his humanity and the way he walks through the world has had a real effect?

[A]

Yeah. That show is a result of who he is as a spirit. It's really on display and it's really cool. And I would argue that Prizefighter. Do you feel that at all? The fact that you can call Chris Stapleton or however that works.

[C]

I do feel that, you know, our band has always loved music and being at shows and watching our contemporaries and being inspired by them. We spent a lot of time investing in into the community. And it's not just so that we can name drop. It's a bit of that as well.

[A]

Are you friends with the Avets? I'm really good friends with Seth, guys.

[C]

They're such inspiration for us.

[A]

They're bad motherfuckers. If you haven't seen the Avets play.

[C]

Yeah, they're amazing.

[B]

I'm doing a thing for them on Monday. They do the Muppets. Yeah, the Muppets thing. I'm excited.

[C]

So we've invested a lot into musical relationships. You know, stayed in touch with people. And then weirdly, as a headliner, you go out and you do your shows and you're a bit insulated from the community. Yeah, festivals are always fun. Cause you bump into other people. And sometimes those awardy things can be cool. Cause you see people you wouldn't otherwise see. But on this record, we've never opened the door. Our band basically has always been collaborative, and we've never really represented it on record. And so on this record, we were like, we want to call in our friends. And actually, Gracie Abrams has been like the fairy godmother of this record. She's been behind the scenes with her magic wand. She heard the demo of Banjo's song before I'd written anything on it and was like, you gotta fucking write something on that. So I text her lyrics as we were going, and voice memos and being like, what do you think of this? What do you think of this? And she was always behind the scenes, just cheerleading and being.

[B]

Oh, that's awesome.

[C]

In a way. Like Brandy was for. For my solo record. Gracie has been for Prizefighter. And so then we called her up and said, will you sing on Badlands? And I thought she was gonna just do some harmonies. She turned that song into a duet. It's like my favorite song on the record. It's amazing. And the same with Gigi, who we'd done some shows with. Gigi Perez Hozier we've known for a really long time.

[A]

Like, I don't need to know you to look at the list and go like, oh, yeah. This is a guy who's clearly been benevolent and generous with his peers. Cause they show up.

[C]

I feel deeply honored by the people that said yes. And Chris, I didn't know Chris. I just. Just called Cold Call. Hey, bud. Big fan. I think he's a generational talent. He's like my favorite voice. Male voice in America.

[A]

Do you know Heaven Sent by Steel Drivers?

[C]

No.

[A]

I cannot stop listening to this song since I interviewed him first band. It's my.

[C]

No, I don't know. Heaven Sent on the way home.

[A]

I listen to it probably 40 times. The day after, if I'm not working, I'm listening to that song. It's unreal.

[C]

Well, I think he's amazing. And of course, course, he completely killed the assignment because I sent him the song I sent him here. We all felt in the band that he would be perfect on it because it's like a kind of cowboy suicide.

[B]

Yeah, he is perfect for that.

[A]

And again, he's a dude who does not need to answer the phone and doesn't need to show up for people, and he does it, like, endlessly.

[C]

Found that out, and then I texted him, said, this is our brokeback moment as well, by the way.

[A]

Don't wait for the video. Okay, so you're going on tour, and you kind of just nodded at it. You're doing a lot of festivals. Is that by choice?

[C]

That's the ones that been announced.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Big gaps in that diary that aren't going to stay gaps, but we haven't announced them yet. But Hyde park on July 4th, actually important day for you guys and half of me.

[A]

I bet you're really conflicted on July 4th.

[C]

Yeah. July 4th at Hyde park is the one that I'm looking forward to the

[A]

most because it's been a decade since you guys played.

[C]

10 years. And that's like hometown show. It's massive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Two seconds on Nashville, and then I want to hear you sing, if you'll oblige us now that I've ruined your voice in two hours of chat. Nashville, very special place, no?

[C]

Yeah, it really is. We spent a lot of time there, and we were invited there. When we first went to Telluride Bluegrass Festival up in Colorado, we knew that Alison Krauss and Robert Plant were on the bill. We knew that people at Okra Medicine show would be kicking around. Jerry Douglas, who's the greatest slide guitar player of all time. Well, dobro player of all time. And we walked in, and they all were there and all stoked that we were there.

[A]

Ah.

[C]

And coming in as these nerdy kids with more Americana instrumental. They were just amazing. And Jerry became a really amazing friend to our band. We felt invited in, and then they invited us to Nashville, and they were all around, and we've spent a lot of time in Nashville. I love it.

[A]

I've been shocked to be in that town, which is also a creative town, and just hear story after story of how available everyone is for each other.

[C]

Yeah. Lainey Wilson has become a friend of ours, and I'm just obsessed with her. She's so generous. She's so down.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We invite her on the train talk. She's like, yeah, cool. I'll be there.

[A]

It's like they haven't forgotten that they love the art form.

[C]

Yeah. A lot of them. I Think Chris is like that. Noah Khan is there now, and he's like that super generous people. There's a real sense of community there, which I think still exists and is cool.

[A]

One of our closest friends is this young artist, Hannah Anderson. She's a musician. She's lived in Portland and in LA and from Houston, and they just went to Nashville a year and a half ago, and they've just never been happy. So even if you're not, like, successful and thriving at every level vi there, she's like, oh, my gosh. I've been here my whole life.

[C]

I lived in West Hollywood, and it drove my shame narrative crazy.

[A]

It did.

[C]

Yeah. Because I'd look around, be like, look at all these amazingly beautiful, successful people. I'm not doing anything.

[A]

Billboards. You underestimate the impact of these billboards that are every five feet.

[C]

You really do. They have an impact on you, especially if you have, like, a competitive spirit or an artistic one, like a slightly vulnerable.

[B]

And if you have both, yeah, you're fucked.

[A]

It's really not, like, competitive where I'm envious. But you're ambitious.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Even just to have ambition and see that you're not there is a bad reminder.

[C]

Yeah, it is. Every time you walk out the door

[B]

and you walk out of a restaurant and there's paparazzi there and they just, like, put their cameras down when you walk out. It's like, oh, God, it's a wild mind Fuck.

[A]

Oh, I gotta tell you, one of my funniest moments in life. The first time I did Letterman, which I was so excited to do, he's

[C]

my hero because he, for comics, is

[A]

like, he's not my. Him and Bill Murray, those are our. So I couldn't be more excited. I'm in the back of a suv, and Tom Cruise is also the guest that night. So he's first and I'm second. And I pull up to the theater, they've got the whole street shut down, and there are saw horses so that the crowd doesn't move in. And as my SUV pulls up, they believe Tom Cruise is about to get out. And this audience of people is like, the cameras are all like. And I step out, and you just hear this collective, like, literally 15 heard people, like, save your film. I got him. Put your cameras away. I was like, oh, my.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

What a way to walk into this theater. For my dream come true started with savior film.

[C]

Yeah, maybe that should be the title

[A]

of your savior film. So with so much gratitude, you've agreed to sing. And I cannot wait to see that. So if we may, I try. You're a party. I like you a ton. Thanks, man. Thanks for coming.

[C]

Well, you guys make this quite weird thing feel non weird at all.

[A]

Oh, good. That's the goal.

[C]

Very comfortable.

[B]

Do you know Mark Ronson? I assume you do. You guys have a similar vibe.

[C]

Oh, really? I'll take that. He's a generous, spirited man. He's a wonderful collaborator.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You know, some of those people, like Pharrell is like that and Aaron dessen's like that. They just get joy in seeing other people shine. Pharrell's definitely like that. He's in his happiest place when he's helping elevate someone up to their true self. It's really cool. It's a cool spirit. And Mark's like that too.

[A]

I had a therapist tell me that as a man, your journey is you try to conquer and you try to get yours. And then if you're a healthy man, the next phase of your life is to try to give that to as many people as you can. And I have entered that phase of my life where it's like, you got to now do that.

[C]

And that's the spirit of generosity rather than spirit of poverty. It's not like, this has gotta be mine. I can't give it away. It's like, I do better when you do better.

[A]

Yeah. The scarcity mentality that we were forged in.

[B]

All right, let's party.

[A]

All right, let's party. Roll dogs is our comprom.

[C]

Can you hold all my secrets? That's our line. Can you hold all my secrets? Can we swear that we'll forget?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I'm gonna tell you this, and then I don't ever want to hear about it.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna get this off my chest just for me.

[A]

I can't carry this anymore by myself. But also, we shan't ever speak of it again. Well, if that's you diminished, you know, fuck you. I guess my response I agree.

[B]

I'm that.

[A]

Yeah, that's you at 70%.

[B]

Yeah. Taylor was doing that in the dock.

[A]

We won't make him tell us now.

[B]

Yeah, later.

[A]

All right, then. There it is.

[C]

Should we?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ready?

[C]

Yeah. Here's my fine grenade here's the gun and here's the blade here's the picture that I saved for too long here's my credit card and keys and the reason I won't find peace Here's a song I could not complete for too long here's my pride and here's my shame Here's a trophy that bears my name here's all the mistakes I made for too long here's the answers I never gave here's the cause I should have made here's the substance that I crave all along. Well, here's my vision here's my aim here's my suspect and the ones I blame Whilst you're sitting taking names I just want to belong here's my lonely serenade here's the gun and here's a blade here's the picture that I saved before you were gone here's my pride and here's my shame Here's a trophy that bears my name here's all the mistakes I made for two

[A]

here's the

[C]

answers I never gave here's the cause I should have made here's the substance that I crave all along. Can you hold all my secrets? Can we swear we can forget? Yeah, I had lies like you wouldn't believe. That's kind of it.

[A]

No water carries Horny for you. You're so hot.

[C]

What do you sing?

[A]

I know. I almost flew into the bookshelf a couple times. I was at the Memorex moment.

[C]

My wife's always said we're quite a shouty band and that one does get quite a shout.

[A]

Oh, man, that's quite shout powerful. The privilege of being a room this tiny with him letting it rip the whole time.

[B]

I was like, why? How is this our job?

[A]

Yeah, we're so lucky. That was really.

[C]

People normally come play a song.

[A]

Well, Nora sang for us. Nor Jones.

[B]

Ava Brothers of play.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[C]

Which one did they do?

[A]

Oh, they did.

[B]

Trussle did a few.

[A]

As you know, when those two lock spirits like there's something. Those two. Yeah, well, they call it blood harmony.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

There's something real about blood.

[C]

Two brothers playing soccer together as well.

[A]

Yeah, something like that.

[B]

Well, this was so special.

[A]

Thanks, guys. Well, Marcus, this is a delight.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

We'll come back.

[B]

Yes, please.

[A]

Also, I really want a double date. Maybe. Yeah.

[C]

Lovely.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, great. I'm gonna give you my fax number.

[C]

That would be dope, wouldn't it? Only to fax. Like sharing with his iPad. I'm not sure about that, but fax

[A]

only get a landline. I'll draw you some cock and balls pictures and we'll get this thing going.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Be well.

[C]

Thank you, guys.

[A]

Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that we're or wrong. Hi. Hi.

[B]

Sup?

[A]

How are you?

[B]

Good. I have A headache. It's gonna go away.

[A]

It's gonna go away. Did you take Advil or something?

[B]

Through the power of thinking.

[A]

Why don't you?

[B]

I'm just kidding. No, I will. But should I?

[A]

Yeah, come on.

[B]

Yeah, I guess if people want to see my pharmacy, real traveling pharmacy. It's here. This is it. Oh, it's like an one videos.

[C]

Like a.

[B]

What's in my bag?

[A]

Oh sure. Like a Vogue.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. This is great.

[B]

What's in my bag?

[A]

You've always wanted to do this?

[B]

Advil. None of. What will you select exactly and what

[A]

won't I. Oh, this is.

[B]

Oh, this is a hand sani. I really like. This one's vulnerable.

[A]

Pepto. Poopy problems.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

If I have muscle and or joint issues in order, I prefer an Aleve.

[B]

I know we've done.

[A]

And then an ibuprofen. Never Tylenol for body pain. But if I have a headache.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I love a Tylenol.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Do you know what I have not tried though. Have you tried? Because it's so old fashioned. I bet it works the best. You ever fuck with an aspirin?

[B]

No. Look, aspirin.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Do you know why I got this?

[A]

Why? An accident? No, I'm expert.

[B]

I got it on purpose when I thought my finger was going to explode on the plane.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I forget why. Probably a Google or maybe I asked someone and they said take an aspirin. I think maybe for the sweat, like make sure my heart didn't explode on the plane.

[A]

Did you take an aspirin?

[B]

I'm sure I took everything they told me to take. So yeah. I've got some aspirin in here for the plane.

[A]

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the difference between all these Aspirin actually thins your blood.

[B]

Yeah, it does. That's why. Because that's why on planes it's good for instead of clotting.

[A]

Yeah. So when you come pressure you have your blood moving through a constricted area and you can either attack the blood side aspirin or the constriction side. Which is the other options?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Why can't you take both as my. Oh, why?

[B]

Just. You're always going to take both.

[A]

Yeah. If one's good, two's better.

[B]

I have two kinds of D. I have Aleve D Ding, ding, ding. A leave and I have Zertech D. Ah, wow. So I just have a lot of stuff.

[A]

You really got it going on in there.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Do you need that box still. How you get rid of that box?

[B]

No, I like it. Don't you know my Tide stain stick?

[A]

Okay, I'm now carrying one of those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In my backpack.

[B]

Yeah, they're very helpful.

[A]

Well, it was a lot of good free ads for all those companies. I know, just.

[B]

It's true. Can you hand? Oh, there's like not much left, but that's okay.

[A]

There's enough to get, probably enough.

[B]

I'm taking three.

[A]

You take them all at once? God, you would have never been a good drug addict. You would have sucked at being a drug addict.

[B]

So I never did it. I only do things I'm good at.

[A]

My character in chips was very much how I chew them all up and swallow them. Just get over it.

[B]

Chew them all up is disgusting. I remember the first time I had to swallow a pill.

[A]

You remember the first time?

[B]

Yeah, because it was a hu. I couldn't do it and my parents were trying to help me.

[A]

You currently look 15. I'm gonna add.

[B]

Really? Yeah, cuz my hair's up. I guess I was probably 9 or 10. I lived in my.

[A]

How could you made it all the way to nine before you took a pill? Oh, we didn't have those in my day.

[B]

Oh, really? No, I wasn't taking Advil. I guess I was taking Chewable, those Flintstone vitamins. Ding, ding, ding. From last week. I was taking those and they worked. They ke. But then I had to take some sort of pill, probably an antibiotic or something. And in my head it was this big, you know, enormous.

[A]

Well, relative to your head, it might have been true.

[B]

Anyway, my parents were trying to help me and then they were getting frustrated, obviously, because I like couldn't do it.

[A]

Sure. And you needed to take it.

[B]

I had to take it. And I don't. I think eventually we probably cut it up into like teeny tiny pieces.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Made a dust of it.

[A]

Turned it into a milkshake.

[C]

Mom.

[B]

Yeah. We should have done it.

[A]

Done that. Yeah, why not? Mortar, pestle.

[B]

Yeah, could have done that. Anyway, so that was a hard day for me.

[A]

I'm sorry that happened. I had wanted last week, I forgot to bring it up, but I had attended a concert that I wanted to talk about that was quite special.

[B]

Okay, let's hear about it.

[A]

You know, I give, I, I, I attack social media so much. But I need to also acknowledge I have discovered so many interesting things via Instagram.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

One of them is Alfredo Rodriguez, who is a Cuban pianist. He makes these. So exciting, these songs. He does. He'll do, like, Thriller, but he puts it through the Latin conversion.

[B]

Yeah. So cool.

[A]

Just tackle. He did Star wars as, like, what it would sound like if it had been written in Cuba. And he's an insane piano player, and he's on stage with just a percussionist who he's been making music with for, like, 15 years. And these two are, like. They're sharing a brain. They're like the Avett Brothers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this percussionist is only using his hands, but he is making so much sound. He's got the bongos. He's got everything you could imagine. And his story, which was so great, was he was living in Cuba, and he got invited to this fancy jazz festival in Switzerland. And he went there, and there was, like, all these legends there, like George Benson and all these different, incredible people. So he plays piano on stage, and Quincy Jones is in the audience. He goes back to Cuba, Quincy Jones comes home, and Quincy Jones calls his manager, and he said, I just saw the best pianist of this generation. I have to work with him. You've got to figure out how I can work with him. So this management team spends the next few months trying to find him. He's in Cuba.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

18 years ago.

[B]

Yeah. Not the easiest.

[A]

They start this process of trying to get him to be able to come record. He ends up having to go to Mexico and defect and come over the border. And he then starts working with Quincy Jones.

[B]

Oh, that's so cool.

[A]

Nonstop does three albums with Quincy Jones. They become like, you know, mentori mentee. It's so beautiful. I love that he's now a citizen. He lives in Miami. He's got a family. It's just a wonderful story. I love that I've never seen someone play the piano with this kind of speed and pizzazz. I mean, it's kind of mind bending to watch someone play like that.

[B]

That's fun.

[A]

So I encourage everyone. If you could see Alfredo Rodriguez, I know that they're having a jazz festival in Miami right now. Ish. I think. And I think John Batiste is also playing at that festival. I want to go so bad, but I was just there in the DM flight. I really still have my complaints about the length of the flight. Okay. It's too long. So three, commitment to go see anything. Okay. So, yeah, check him out.

[B]

Yeah, that's awesome. We also. We went to another. I guess we're Artie now. Cause we went to a play, a theater play.

[C]

Oh, we did. We did.

[A]

We went to a theater production, a

[B]

musical three months later that Kristen was In, starred in. And it was great.

[A]

It was so great. It was impossibly good given the fact that those people had come together a couple weeks before to do rehearsals and stuff, start from scratch.

[B]

It was so, so funny and sweet and life affirming. I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. And it was extra fun for me because it was a lot of worlds colliding for me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Obviously, Kristen and then two very wonderful people who wrote the play are UCB peeps.

[A]

Oh, you knew them?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I thought they were terrific. Not only had they written this incredible thing, but they as performers were fantastic.

[B]

Y One of my very good friends who I did improv with, we were on an improv team together. Zeke was in it as well.

[A]

Which one was he?

[B]

He played the flight attendant, the co pilot.

[A]

Oh, okay. Wonderful. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I met him, the tall gentleman.

[B]

He's fantastic. And he was so good in it and it was so fun because I hadn't seen him in so long. And it's one of those really fun things where, like, you know, in this world, like you, you, especially in the comedy world, you have these people and these teams and you're around them non stop and they're your family and you're making things together and it's like such a beautiful time. And then you're like, sometimes you're like your life goes into another direction, as mine did. And I don't see any of those people anymore. And it was so, like, it made me feel so happy to see him up there.

[A]

Warm and fuzzy.

[B]

Made me feel warm and fuzzy. We were talking after the show and he said, rightly, he was like, I feel like that team was. He was like, I just have such strong memories of practicing at your house in my apartment. It was like right before, before we all sort of became adults. Like we were adults, but like our lot in your emphasis, adults started taking off right after that. And so it's kind of like the last, the last phase of innocence.

[A]

Okay, now I want to take this moment to discuss something that I think was potentially awkward.

[B]

Oh, sure.

[A]

That we, we haven't debriefed on.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And this likely was all from my own perspective and I imagined all this. But here's what happened. We're watching this play. Three of the characters are gamers. They're young boys and they're gamers.

[B]

So funny.

[A]

And they have matching outfits and they're in a gaming troupe and whatever. Mind you, I've not seen the play. I have no idea. I'm seeing it for the very first time. But these three boys start dancing and singing and it's so adorable. I just have this moment where I'm searching. This is going to be making you smile so much. Oh, I'm thinking, like, she must love these boys right now.

[B]

I did.

[A]

And so I turn around and you were with her whole pot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I turn around and I look at you directly to see if, like, I'm right. Like, are you just gonna be smiling ear to ear watching these boys being expressive and dancing and singing.

[B]

Oh, I did love it. Yeah.

[A]

But it's very obvious. I turn around and I look at you and then you, like, you look at me and you're just like. I'm sure you're like, what is he? Do you remember this moment?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Ok. Not at all.

[A]

Well, then I see, like, I see Molly and Eric and then they. They've seen me turn around and, like, lock eyes with you. And then I turn back around. You weren't smiling ear to ear. So I'm like, oh, she's not as tickled by these boys as I was thinking she was. You were. You just weren't showing it. Oh, that's not the point. Don't even worry. That's. That has nothing to do with where I'm going with this story.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So I made this big show of turning around and everyone's behind me. So they just saw me turn around and, like, lock eyes with you. And then, then the song takes off right after that moment. And the whole song is about them loving double Ds and the Princess with big titties. And the whole song becomes about titties and double Ds. And then I started panicking, thinking, does everyone just see that? When I turned around and stared at Monica, they think I've already seen this.

[B]

Oh, my God, you're so in your head. No one thought that.

[A]

I don't think you can see the math of that.

[B]

No, I get it.

[A]

Like, hey, Monica, check this out. And then the whole song right after I do that turns into a whole song about.

[B]

That is something you would do.

[A]

Well, I don't think I would.

[B]

You literally said double Ds last week

[A]

on the fact check because you had what, adhd. What was the thing? I didn't say that. I just said there was double D in the acronym.

[C]

The meth medicine.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What was it?

[A]

The medicine you were taking? The meth. Your two doses? Double D?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Is that what it was?

[B]

Maybe. And then you said, aren't you. Are you conflating it? Yeah. You made a reference to my boobs. You do this? We.

[A]

We do.

[B]

So I don't.

[A]

Well, anyways, I felt really pervy all of a sudden, I guess. Let's say this. If I turned around like, oh, Monica, look, they're about to sing about big boobs. That's not me.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay, I'm pervy. Whatever the line is, that's not me. I'm not turning around like, oh, Monica, they're about to sing about boobs. That's crazy. I wouldn't.

[B]

You don't do that noise. But.

[A]

But that was what I was afraid. The vibe all of a sudden was like, oh, my God. Do they think.

[B]

I don't think.

[A]

But I would just turn around to see, like, oh, my God. I bet she loves these cute boys.

[B]

Boys dancing.

[A]

But then they immediately were letting her rip about boobs. And I'm like, oh, boy. They think.

[B]

I. I don't think, Monica. Yeah, I. I don't think anyone thought that. Is that why you kept looking at your kids, too? Because you were, like, trying to, like, combat it? Like, I'm not a perv. I'm here with my sweet children.

[A]

Of course not. I was looking at my kids to see how excited they were. Their mom was so cute. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I know. It's really cute.

[A]

They had friends. Friends with them, the girls. I was just trying to imagine if I was 12 and I took Aaron and my dad was like, to make it one for one. If my dad was doing backflips on motorcycles. They're all into musical theater and their mom is crushing it on stage. And I was like, I wonder if they're feeling pride for their mom.

[B]

Oh, God, I hope so.

[A]

I hope so. Yeah. That's what I was trying to check in.

[B]

Yeah, I love it.

[A]

Yeah. Delta had too much on her plate to probably.

[B]

She was on the crew.

[A]

She was on the crew.

[B]

She was a little stressed out.

[A]

She was. She worked so hard. Shout out to D Money. She did costumes. She was an usher. She filled in for some of the cast members when they weren't there. She was a PA and called everyone to set. She worked at least 45 hours last week on that play.

[B]

She said that she gave actors notes.

[A]

She saw every single rehearsal. And then she would film the whole show on her iPad and then come home after the show. She's been at the theater at that point for eight hours that day. Watch the entire show all over again and take notes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And she had. Of her 20 or 30 notes over the course of the five shows, 10 of them were legit and got implemented.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Yeah. She's like, I don't think the mics are on for the boys when they say this line. It's a funnier line in rehearsal. It's not landing here. I don't think the mics are on and they weren't.

[B]

Oh, weird. Well, good for her. I love that. I love that she's an industrious gal.

[A]

Oh, I was so proud of her.

[B]

And she.

[A]

I couldn't have been proud.

[B]

I waited, you know, I requested her as my usher.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

I had to wait because.

[A]

So busy.

[B]

She is a lot. She had a lot to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, it was very, very, very cute. And hopefully they do more. I hope they do more and I hope more people can see it because it was very cute.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

And sweet and funny and to remind people, musical theater. Not my fave. Not your fave. Not my fave.

[A]

Not my fave. But.

[B]

But it was great.

[A]

It was great. It was so entertaining.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And of course, seeing Kristen sing is always so fun.

[B]

She's so good.

[A]

You know what I was thinking of? I had so many waves of happiness for her, which was like. Like a. She looked 12 years old.

[B]

Well, part of the character. She was wearing a wig with bangs. And she does look so young.

[A]

She looks so young. But her spirit was like. She was on a stage playing.

[B]

Yeah. She's having the best.

[A]

She's like, she could not do that ever again. She could just act in movies and get paid a lot and act in TV shows, but she's doing this thing for free.

[B]

Yeah. That she loves.

[A]

I'm watching how happy it makes her. And I was like, oh, she did it. She has held on to being 12. Like, she has protected this part of herself that's from childhood and still getting to do it.

[B]

Yeah. Very pure.

[A]

It's so pure.

[B]

Yeah. It's beautiful.

[A]

So I had that round of happiness for her and then I was looking around and there were just so many people that had come that are friends of hers and people she's worked with.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I was like, look at this. This group of people that love her.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

Oh, I was so happy for her. Yeah.

[B]

It was beautiful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, great show. Three months later. Check it out if you can. If it comes to your city.

[A]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[B]

I fell down yesterday Had a big

[A]

tumble who'd have felt moving so close? Yeah. Who would have thought moving much closer to work would up your danger? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I see.

[A]

Explain it to me, because when you explain it to me, it's felt like absent of a banana peel. What you described couldn't have happened.

[B]

I don't know what's happening. I walk. It's a downhill. Downhill. I'm in these. These shoes. Loafers for people who aren't watching. And my front foot just goes straight out. Slips and just goes straight out. And it's also kind of slow. Like, I, like, know it's happening.

[A]

I now know what's going on. Yeah. You were going downhill, steep enough that you're putting your front foot out.

[B]

Yeah, my foot out.

[A]

It's the opposite of walking. In essence, you're lowering yourself down the hill.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And so you put one foot out and put all your weight on it, and it locks. Lost traction. And then you hit the fucking deck. That now makes sense.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

I was underestimating the decline.

[B]

I think it might have to do with the slippery bottom. Is there a slipper? Does it look slippery?

[C]

Sure.

[A]

It's not a great shoe, but I think had you been just walking forward. Yeah. You would have, like, spun out as you. As you tried to accelerate off your back foot. It would have spun out. But you're landing with all your weight to decelerate. And so if you lose that footing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Out you go.

[B]

Yeah. And it. But it was, like, slow enough that I knew I was falling.

[A]

You got bored in the middle of it.

[B]

I was like, why am I falling? Why? Why? And by then, my. I scraped my knee like a little kid and broke my jeans.

[A]

You ripped a hole in your jeans? I did.

[B]

I ripped a hole in my jeans. And I had a teeny bit of blood. A scrape. It was a scrape.

[A]

I still. That part's still a mystery to me. So I understand the physics of putting your weight down. That slips out. Oh, I guess maybe then the knee that didn't slip is the one that ripped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So then you went right down on your knee.

[B]

Yes. And I just felt.

[A]

Think I only weigh five pounds. They could have shattered my patella at 2, 200 pounds.

[B]

I felt like such a child. It was really. And you know how I am with embarrassment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. Of course. You know, I pop up so fast, and I'm looking around to make sure nobody's seen this. And you kind of. And you laugh. You always have to laugh. Even if no one's there, you laugh. Like, I.

[A]

That was so fun.

[B]

It's really funny. Fine. I'm fine. And. But really on the inside, tears are bubbling up out of embarrassment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And being like, why? How am I this age? And I'm a child still, like vulnerable to fl. Yeah, I was so vulnerable. I hated it.

[A]

Well, I saw you in the driveway and you were like, I fell. And I was like, okay, well, that's not a whoop. Then I saw that your knee was torn. And then I did. I felt bad for you. I said, oh, I'm sorry, buddy.

[B]

This is the difference, okay? This is difference between mothers and fathers. First, I walk straight into the house and Anna and Kristen are there, like doing some design stuff. And I walk straight in and I walk up and I said, I fell down. And I. I fell down and I scraped my knee like a little five year old. And Kristen says, oh, no. You know, she immediately is like, oh, no. And then. And she was like, well, what are those? Jeans? She liked my jeans. And she was distracted for a second by my jeans.

[A]

Sure. The loss of the jeans.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, they ripped. She was like, well, that's okay. And then she got out the tied stain stick and she was helping my pants, and that was all very nurturing. And then I walked around aimlessly for a little bit and then I ran.

[A]

Just trying to gather yourself.

[B]

Yeah. And then I ran into you coming out of the gym and you were like, don't go up in my. My clubhouse. Yeah, and then. And I was like, I fell. Yeah, and then you kind of laughed and. And then you said, oh, your pants are ripped. Oh, you did fall. As if I was like lying or something.

[A]

No, just a fall.

[B]

I understand there are bad falls. That means so many things.

[A]

There's bad falls and there's inconsequential falls. And you were. You were kind of peppy when you were telling me, so I was like, well, she didn't fall off her roof.

[B]

No, no, no. It actually was. Was an inconsequential fall. It just. It just felt like a. I just felt so childish. Sometimes I fall. I've fallen. Sometimes you take a fall. But it's an adult fall, right? This one was not.

[A]

This was a silly fall.

[B]

This was a silly, childish fall. And I felt like a kid. And I had to tell my parents that I told you. My parents.

[A]

You even called your folks afterwards.

[B]

My mom would be like,

[A]

got an X ray.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. No, did you clean it? Make sure you cleaned it.

[A]

Yeah. I asked if you tore the skin.

[B]

Yeah. You said, is it bleeding? Yesterday was a weird day in the atmosphere.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I fell and then Anna fell too, later.

[A]

Really?

[B]

She fell over, like Mona or something. And same situation.

[A]

Like, tore her knee.

[B]

She. Yeah, she hurt her knee.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then we were walking later, and she got hooped up on by a bird.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yikes.

[B]

It was.

[C]

Yikes.

[B]

And then Mona started to eat a condom. Me, too.

[A]

I've been pooped on and I hate it.

[B]

And I didn't want to make, like, two. Of course. I was like, oh, no, you got your Tide stick. But I.

[A]

No, you need a napkin.

[B]

I'm not giving the Tide stick for that.

[A]

Just keep it.

[B]

She has to keep it.

[A]

Oh, no, keep it. Keep it your. You'll want to use it later. Yeah, you need paper towel.

[B]

You know, it was. She need paper towel or a cloth or. Really? I was like. I said, do you have another shirt, like, for me? I'm like, you throw that shirt in the garbage. That shirt's done. But she just cleaned it in the bathroom. But I. You know, there's ways to handle things in life, and I'm often impressed by people, you know? Cause I was like, in my head, I was like, your domain. This is disgust. Like, this.

[A]

It.

[B]

To me, I was like, oh, my God, this is disgusting.

[A]

This is horrible.

[B]

It looked really disgusting.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And it was on her shoulder. And it was a white T shirt.

[A]

The. It's brown at first, right? Like, it turns white, but it comes out brownie green.

[B]

It was diarrhea.

[A]

They only diarrhea.

[B]

I know.

[A]

They don't have solid oops. So I guess they're eating cigarette butts and stuff.

[B]

Ew.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Think about what they're eating. And so I. Yeah, I was like, well, I tried to put a positive spin on it. I was like, oh, no. I was like, well, you know, they do say that's good luck.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I think they do.

[A]

They do.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

What else are they gonna say?

[B]

Exactly. She said, or bad luck. I said, no, they don't say that. They say it's good.

[A]

You know what's funny is it's clearly objectively bad luck. You got on. Yeah. Yeah. It's never good luck to get on, but we say so.

[B]

Well, yeah, positive happens. So. So anyway. But I just knew if it was me, I would have. It would have ruined my. I fell and this happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What kind of day is this? This hurt my feelings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was sensitive, but she was just like. Like, she was just a little annoyed by it. She didn't let it get her.

[A]

She grew up in Venezuela, you know, she has a different beginning.

[B]

Yeah, you're right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Mona then was starting to eat a condom on the street. And I was like, we got. What is happening?

[A]

Where were you guys at Venice?

[B]

No, right here.

[A]

Oh, okay. There was a used condom on the ground. Yeah.

[B]

There were some tents that had popped up. They're probably gone by today.

[A]

I'm shocked. They're using safe sex. That's. That's incredible.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Yeah. I guess we should be happy.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Speaking of health.

[B]

Okay, health update.

[A]

I'm a little worried, and I don't ever get worried. Not about my health. What about my health?

[B]

Tell me.

[A]

I make a lot of jokes about smoking and stuff.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I don't like smoking's coming back. Smoking seems to be coming back.

[B]

Definitely bad. I know, I know. You gotta be careful when you're thinking

[A]

about, like, how it's so predictable. We suffer from the absence of problems. So, like, polio, like, for anyone who grew up in the 30s and 40s, you saw tons of kids in wheelchairs and with crutches and huge deformities. So when they came out with a vaccine for polio, people were like, yes. 100% of people were like, absolutely. But then it got eradicated.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And now you have knuckleheads that are like, no, I'm not going to get a polio vaccine. Because you haven't seen it.

[B]

I know. You don't know how.

[A]

You don't want to fucking see it.

[B]

Exactly. Same with measles.

[A]

I think what's unfortunate right now is, like, we were growing up, people were dying of cancer left and right. My dad died of lung cancer. You're seeing people, you know?

[B]

I know.

[A]

And now that it's curbed a bit, I don't think people realize, like, how bad it is. You can't get lung cancer, man.

[B]

And. And you will.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, if you are smoking cigar. High likelihood.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it's not one of those, like, roll the dice. Like, if you're smoking enough, you're getting it.

[A]

Yeah. It's not like drinking.

[B]

Exactly. Thank God.

[A]

So anything. I just wish people would choose. I'm pro nicotine. Pick another delivery device.

[B]

Ding, ding, ding. That's going to be a f. Oh, okay.

[A]

I get wanting your nicotine. Let's get your nicotine. But there's better delivery device and not.

[B]

And vaping, too. Don't do that either. I'm glad you said that because you're a smoker, and I a cool one, too. And I. You, you know, notoriously have never smoked a cigarette, so I feel a little like I can't say that you're not in A position. But actually, I kind of am in a position. Like, guys. It's actually not that hard to just not do it. It's not.

[A]

Yeah. I started noticing, like, I think whereas people, like, they smoked for sure. But they did. They would never post a picture of themselves smoking. And now every. I see so many posts with people buying and darts people.

[B]

It's back. Like, people think it's cool.

[A]

Yeah. And I get it. I get it. I get it.

[B]

It looks cool. I will be. It looks cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sexy on tv.

[A]

Until you kiss someone and then you can taste the cigarette.

[B]

That's what I'm like. Guys prioritize kissing guys.

[A]

That's my campaign.

[B]

Oh, that's okay.

[A]

Kissing. That's it.

[B]

It's just called kissing.

[A]

Kissing.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Pick kissing.

[B]

Apk. Always pick kissing. No, you don't.

[A]

More than. We need just pick kissing. Hey.

[B]

Yeah, I just, I, I. In practice, it's not the same as how it looks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you guys are all coughing and stuff and, like, making those noises and it's like, it's not cute.

[A]

Can you even imagine what I sounded like when I smoked?

[B]

No.

[A]

I would have these.

[B]

I have a question for you. I didn't want to ask because it sounds.

[A]

You can hear me coughing from your house. I feel like that. I thought that was inevitable.

[B]

I mean, I hope one day I do.

[A]

You will.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because I'm out in the yard. Like, I was changing all the wheels on the razor. And I was out there and I had a couple moments of clearing my throat and I was like, if Monica's window's open, I bet she heard that.

[B]

Yeah. No, I haven't. But I do wonder when you're acting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For long periods of time. Like, you have a handle on not

[A]

doing that for three minutes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then do you. Is it like, right when they call cut, you clear?

[A]

Well, I clear before I start.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then. Yeah, likely in between, I get going a little bit.

[B]

Because some people are sitting here, you know, and I'm like, it probably depends on if I'm like, PMSing or something.

[A]

Yeah, sure. And just how you feel about me in general. Probably.

[B]

And I'm like, why? Like, I know when he's acting, he doesn't do this.

[A]

Yeah. And if our show was three minutes long, you would never experience.

[B]

I guess that's what I'm asking. Like. Okay. And like, in, you know, you know how old the older men.

[A]

We have respiratory things.

[B]

Yeah. And you have, like, digestion also. Like, all of you older men are starting are like, you're burping a lot. Okay. You're burping through your talking.

[A]

Okay, sure, sure.

[B]

It's a common thing that men are doing. And, and I cuz we don't cry.

[A]

We're keep just bubbling and it's like just.

[B]

Okay, yeah, just cry, you know, just cry.

[A]

That's a. I have a great story. Funny enough.

[B]

Okay, well, anyway, I just. Sometimes when you're burping through your talks and when you're throat clearing, I think like, is he doing this to me? Like, is this about me? Because I mean, you know, that's if I'm really angry.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I know he, I know he's not on set with. I don't know if we're allowed to say with on set. And he's like burping through his talk. He is not. I know he's not.

[A]

I mean, you're ignoring so many factors. It's crazy. Our duration together. The fact that like I research for two and a half hours and then I quickly eat so that I don't have, I don't have to eat for the next three hours. We're recording.

[B]

It's the food part.

[A]

So it's like I leave myself six minutes to eat my full calories for the first half of the day. So like I pound that oatmeal and then I come in here and like I'm dealing with, with that for the first 10 minutes.

[B]

I guess I didn't really think about the food. That is interesting. Yeah.

[A]

You see me right before, every time, right before we eat, I have pushed off eating right to the moment before we. I'm always finishing my oatmeal right before we start.

[B]

Well, I would say just don't eat, but that's not a good. That's not a good solution. And I didn't eat today and my stomach was growling during the interview and I did. I was getting so self conscious and you have a headache and I have. So it's not.

[A]

You're mad about my throat clearing just today.

[B]

Listen, it's not a good solution. Okay, go ahead, keep burping.

[A]

All right.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

Burping, farting, coughing, Just do what you need to do. I'm doing the best I can do.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Well, I will say this. I have recently and I just hate this observation which is it's considerably worse when I eat cheese and I fucking

[B]

hate that the burping is.

[A]

No. Oh, I don't think my burbing's as big of a deal as you do. Or at least I'm not concerned.

[B]

I don't think you're noticing it.

[A]

Okay. My coughing is very disruptive to everyone in the house.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

You can hear it throughout the house. You can't hear if I burp to myself in my bathroom.

[B]

Yeah. It's just when we're on video, you know?

[A]

Yeah. So I have sadly cut out cheese. Well, I've acknowledged. Oh, yeah. If I eat pizza, it's. I'm a mess the next day with my chest.

[B]

Right. That's.

[A]

So I have been trying to not eat cheese. Cheese. And I'm like, guys, what is a life without truly. What do we. Why are we doing this?

[B]

Well, can't you just cough? I mean, everyone's used to it.

[A]

I mean, I'm aiming higher for myself, but I don't enjoy coughing. I hate having stuff in my lungs. I hate it.

[B]

I understand, but do you hate it more than you love?

[A]

More and more. I'm circling an idea of perhaps fucking quitting. Very.

[B]

God, you. You keep adding things to quit.

[A]

I've just heard about my throat clearing from you.

[B]

No, it's not the throat clearance.

[A]

You're currently on burpee. Okay. This is all new. That's not what you've been complaining about over the years.

[B]

I promise. It's been a thing I've been not wanting to tell you.

[A]

Great. But for how long? How many months?

[B]

Like, a long time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Since video. Since video. I never noticed it. I never noticed it before because I'm

[A]

pretty good at keeping it inaudible. You never hear me burp.

[B]

You never hear it. Well, no, if you do. But not. Not in the. No, not in. When we're interviewing. But you often burp loudly just for fun. But not during the interview at all. It's very. It's inaudible, but you can see it. And so I am always cutting around it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that can get complex.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, I'm just telling you, but I want you to eat cheese.

[A]

Well, I. I don't think I can unless I want to deal with coughing. I was like, how long can I be coughing before I get cancer? I mean, the whole point of getting lung cancer is because you're putting all this shit in your lungs and then you're irritating them and you're coughing a lot, and then you have a ton of cell division, and then you have mutation, and that's why you get it. So I'm like, why? Just because. I'm not putting that shit in there. I'm certainly still doing all the disruptive. I'm sure I'm damaging my lungs getting this stuff out. And then I don't want an uptick in my odds of getting lung cancer, so I gotta quit eating cheese. Okay, see you when I'm dead. Stop.

[B]

I've had to knock this whole episode. Okay, now, what's the story you wanted to tell?

[A]

Oh, it was just on that crying. So we had a very, very, very sweet meeting last night and kind of in memory of our friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we don't ever have women at the meeting. It's a stag meeting and a woman joined. And the woman was awesome. She goes, I don't know how all of you got through your shares without crying, but I'm going to be crying through my entire share and I'm going to cry for all of you. And we were like, well, thank you. Someone needs to.

[B]

Yeah, that's nice.

[A]

Yeah, it was really great.

[B]

Oh, man. Sad. Really sad. Okay, let's do some facts.

[A]

Okay. On market.

[B]

Yes. God, that song. I can't believe we got to hear it. It was so good.

[A]

He blasted us right through the bookshelf.

[B]

I loved it. I really loved it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The whole album.

[A]

I loved him.

[B]

I loved him, too. He's great. Very charming.

[A]

I hadn't given him a fair shake when they were really popular because I was surrounded by some people that I was judgmental of who were obsessed with it, and it prevented me from. From giving him a fair shake. And I really regret that.

[B]

Yeah. And I fell in love with him and.

[A]

Well, they're so good. Yeah, they're objectively great.

[B]

Yes. Huge, huge band.

[A]

So I didn't even deserve to get that performance we got, but I am now a lifetime fan. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Did Juno Temple go to Bedale's school or be Dales or whatever? Yes, yes, yes. She attended. Well, she attended Enmore Primary School, boarded at King's College, and later completed her A levels at Bdale's School or Bedales or Bidets. So he nailed that. Okay. Ding, ding, ding. Nicotine is not bad for you. Comes up in the episode. There's, you know. Yes. Nicotine is not the part that gives you cancer.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We all know that. Well, maybe we don't all know that, but it is not the part that gives you cancer. But it can have some negative side effects. It also has some positive side effects. Benefits. Increased levels of alertness, euphoria and relaxation. Improved concentration and memory due to increased activity of the. Ooh.

[A]

Hypothalamus.

[B]

No. 2 neurotransmitters. Reduced anxiety due to the increased levels of beta endorphin, which reduces anxiety. Okay, so those are good things. It says it can cause bad dreams and nightmares. Possible blood restriction, irregular and disturbed sleep, dizziness and lightheadedness. That's not for everyone. Obviously there's some. There can be some gastrointestinal. Bing, bing, bing. Side effects. Diarrhea.

[A]

Don't have it.

[B]

Harp, you have it.

[A]

No, I haven't had it since I quit gluten. I don't ever have diarrhea.

[B]

Do you sometimes have it?

[A]

I've had diarrhea probably. Honestly, without having the flu. I've had it probably three times or four times in the last two years.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean it totally. You know this update. I've shared this. I had it five days a week when I. And now I don't ever have it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Heartburn, peptic ulcers, indigestion.

[A]

None of these for me.

[B]

Dry mouth, nausea and vomiting. That you don't have that side effects

[A]

on the heart,

[B]

Increased blood pressure, enlarged aorta, altered heart rate and rhythm. Those are potentials. It's person to person for that. Those things and what you already are dealing with what you already already have. But it's good for you. It's working great. And for him, I think he likes it as well. Oh, does Letterman play the drums? Does not play drums professionally, but he is a well known enthusiast who has played on air and famously admired, questioned, and tried to buy drum kits from his musical guests. He held Drum week on the Late show and has appeared in videos playing with professional drummers like Anton Fig. Okay, now got a great answer for why these musicians blow into the water bottle with the straw.

[A]

Oh, great. Yeah, he was doing that. That was the first time we had seen that.

[B]

But I saw it on the Taylor Doc and I was like, what is that? What is she doing? Singers blow into a water bottle with the straw. A technique called straw phonation or sovt str. Semi occluded vocal tract exercise to warm up, rehabilitate and strengthen their voices by creating back pressure that reduces vocal strain. This gentle therapeutic exercise helps relax the larynx, improves breathing, and massages the vocal cords to reduce fatigue.

[A]

I thought it was like adding humidity to it. I was way off.

[B]

Maybe you could try it before a interview because you're talking a lot. Well, let's just see what it does. I mean, maybe you'll feel like, so like maybe it'll fix your coughing.

[A]

I'm blessed in that I have yet to really feel any vocal fatigue. Even Though we do have days where we'll talk for six hours straight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I have yet to.

[B]

So far, so good.

[A]

I'll lose my voice when I'm with Aaron. Like, screaming a lot. But other than that, I'm pretty.

[B]

That's probably because you're not breathing through your diaphragm.

[A]

Probably doing a lot of stuff wrong. Just screaming for too long.

[B]

It's not great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your child was screaming in the backyard.

[A]

My God.

[B]

And you texted me. Can you hear them?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When I could.

[A]

Yeah. Y.

[B]

And then you screaming with joy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not.

[A]

Not screaming with terror.

[B]

Friend. We're having a lot of fun back there.

[A]

She has a friend. They'd like to do some screaming together.

[B]

And you said you could relate.

[A]

Yeah. We didn't scream, but we. I can relate. I can relate a lot. Yeah. Watching her and her friend together reminds me. Me a lot of Aaron and I

[B]

watching her and her friend together. Which. They're such a cute duo. So cute. Remind me that I used to be so hyper when I was like, that age with my friends.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was, like, a quality assigned to me. I was hyper. And I, like, can't relate to that girl anymore.

[A]

Right. You're not hyper at all. I know. Used to drive your grandma crazy, right?

[B]

Yeah. And I would lick her arm.

[A]

Yeah. Impulse control.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And just, like, turn around and be crazy. I would just be crazy and bounce around.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I know. But I grew out of that. But it's cute to see.

[A]

I know. It's shocking to me. They're not exhausted after they've been together for two days. But they're not. It's like you're.

[B]

It gives you energy.

[A]

Yes. It energizes. Yeah. Yes. Yes, yes. The thing that I relate to is that they are. The rest of the world has melted away.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It has fallen away completely. And I'm. I just. I'm so happy for her. For that feeling. There's nothing quite like when you have your little soul soulmate and there's, like, nothing else is relevant.

[B]

Best. It is the best. I know. They're so. They're. They're. I'm so happy they have each other.

[A]

My ears sometimes.

[B]

Well, you know, again, cost benefit.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Love you. It.