Sam Rockwell

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: Sam Rockwell Episode Summary

Release Date: June 9, 2025
Guest: Sam Rockwell
Host: Dax Shepard
Co-host: Lily Padman

---

Introduction

Dax Shepard kicks off the episode by expressing his admiration for Sam Rockwell, describing him as one of his "biggest crushes alive." Alongside co-host Lily Padman, Dax highlights Sam's charisma and comfort in his own skin, rating Sam's self-assuredness at 92 out of 100 compared to Snoop Dogg's 100 and Dax's own 88.

Notable Quote:
Dax Shepard [00:58]: "Comfortable in my own skin. And I'm gonna... Let's just arbitrarily give Rockwell 92."

---

Career Highlights and Collaborations

Sam Rockwell shares insights into his diverse acting career, mentioning memorable films and series such as Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, The Green Mile, Jojo Rabbit, Moon, Charlie's Angels, and White Lotus Season Three. He recounts tagging along with Dax Shepard to watch The Bad Guys 2, praising its action sequences.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [03:38]: "I'm thrilled I got you some chocolate."
Dax Shepard [01:46]: "And that is out in theaters 8-1-2. Take your loved ones. You'll love it."

---

Acting Techniques and Training

A significant portion of the conversation delves into acting methodologies, particularly the Meisner Technique. Sam discusses his long-term collaboration with his acting coach, Terry Knickerbocker, emphasizing the importance of emotional anchoring and particularism in his craft. He reflects on how Meisner's focus on imagination over emotional recall has been practical in portraying complex characters.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [27:53]: "Meisner would argue that using your imagination is more practical."
Dax Shepard [22:10]: "I want to explore charm. And I want to talk about fuel."

---

Personal Anecdotes and Experiences

Sam narrates personal stories from his early acting days, including his time with the Groundlings improv group and interactions with notable figures like Philip Seymour Hoffman and John Malkovich. He shares a poignant memory of performing a challenging monologue with director Phil, who encouraged him to evoke discomfort in the audience rather than mere laughter.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [40:05]: "I get on with Terry Knickerbocker better than any person alive."
Sam Rockwell [12:30]: "How do you know that? Because it's my job to learn about you for today."

---

Therapy and Mental Health

The discussion transitions to mental health, with both hosts sharing their experiences with therapy. Sam opens up about his past struggles with anxiety and how therapy became a pivotal part of his life post a significant breakup in his late twenties. Dax echoes the importance of seeking help, emphasizing that therapy should be destigmatized, especially for men facing societal pressures.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [05:02]: "What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety..."
Dax Shepard [31:32]: "Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide and keep it all together."

---

Relationships and Collaborations with Other Actors

Sam reminisces about his relationships with fellow actors like Stanley Tucci and discusses the camaraderie and challenges of working closely on projects like Cowboys & Aliens and White Lotus. He highlights the synergistic dynamic that friendship brings to professional collaborations, allowing for a more authentic and enjoyable working environment.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [11:37]: "He's great."
Dax Shepard [42:05]: "I'm a fan of his work... How much you do."

---

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

The duo delves into behind-the-scenes anecdotes from various projects. Sam recounts humorous and intense moments from filming Confessions of a Dangerous Mind and shares his admiration for Chuck Barris’s eccentric claim of being a CIA operative in the same film.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [52:07]: "Did you ever watch the Gong Show? You're too young for that."
Dax Shepard [54:05]: "He's the ultimate, as we now found out."

---

Life Lessons and Reflections

Throughout the episode, both Sam and Dax reflect on life lessons learned from their experiences in acting and personal growth. Sam emphasizes the importance of persistence, humility, and the delicate balance between charm and self-discipline. Dax adds his perspective on maintaining authenticity and handling the pressures that come with success.

Notable Quotes:
Sam Rockwell [25:04]: "But when I look back on a lot of the actors that I admire... they have the gift of fury."
Dax Shepard [24:05]: "You can infect other people's view of you with that belief in yourself."

---

Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

As the episode concludes, the conversation shifts to lighter topics, including humorous interactions with Sam's grandson, Groot. They discuss the normalization of encountering unhoused individuals in Los Angeles and share personal stories that highlight societal challenges and personal resilience. The hosts encourage listeners to reflect on their own experiences and the broader societal issues touched upon during the conversation.

Notable Quotes:
Lily Padman [90:20]: "Sometimes trends just don't stand the test of time."
Dax Shepard [88:55]: "I want to be in the group with 90%. That means they were a lot. That's evidence of party. Being a party animal."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sam Rockwell [05:02]: "What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety..."
• Dax Shepard [24:05]: "You can infect other people's view of you with that belief in yourself."
• Sam Rockwell [40:05]: "I get on with Terry Knickerbocker better than any person alive."
• Sam Rockwell [52:07]: "Did you ever watch the Gong Show? You're too young for that."
• Dax Shepard [00:58]: "Comfortable in my own skin."
• Sam Rockwell [25:04]: "But when I look back on a lot of the actors that I admire... they have the gift of fury."

---

Key Takeaways

• Authenticity and Charm: Sam Rockwell's effortless charisma and comfort in his own skin significantly contribute to his success and likability.

• Importance of Training: The Meisner Technique plays a crucial role in Sam's acting approach, emphasizing imagination and emotional truth over mere emotional recall.

• Mental Health Awareness: Both hosts underscore the importance of therapy and destigmatizing mental health struggles, particularly for men.

• Collaborative Synergy: Strong personal relationships with fellow actors enhance professional collaborations, leading to more authentic performances and enjoyable working environments.

• Life Lessons: Persistence, humility, and the ability to balance confidence with self-discipline are vital for personal and professional growth.

---

This episode of Armchair Expert offers an in-depth look into Sam Rockwell's multifaceted career, personal growth, and the underlying techniques that shape his acclaimed performances. Through engaging anecdotes and thoughtful reflections, listeners gain valuable insights into the life of one of Hollywood's most beloved actors.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[Lily Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

And we have one of my biggest crushes alive.

[Lily Padman]

He's a stud.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, what an animal. Sam Rockwell.

[Lily Padman]

Know him from absolutely everything.

[Dax Shepard]

He's just got that X factor. He's got that sprinkle of just unbridled charisma.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. He has an electricity high on the soul spectrum.

[Dax Shepard]

Also uber comfortable in his own skin.

[Lily Padman]

Yep. Oh, yeah, we love him.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. I'm going to put him in a top five, like most comfortable in their own skin. I don't know who the other. I know Snoop's there. Sure, he might be number one, but that's a nice quality.

[Lily Padman]

Okay, on a scale of 1 to 100, where do you put you?

[Dax Shepard]

Comfortable in my own skin. And I'm gonna. Let's just arbitrarily give Rockwell 92.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

We'll give Snoop 100.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll go 88.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. I think you're very comfortable in your.

[Dax Shepard]

Skin most of the time.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I have my moments. But, well, talking to Snoop funny enough.

[Lily Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

I get so insecure.

[Lily Padman]

That's how this works. If you talk to people who are above you on the scale, they shine.

[Dax Shepard]

A light on the 12%. That's uncomfortable. Okay. Three billboards outside of Ebbing, Missouri. The Green Mile. JoJo, Rabbit Moon. Charlie's Angels. So memorable. White Lotus season three. And then, and this is a bit of an update. I ended up after this interview just tagging along with him.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, nice to go.

[Dax Shepard]

Watch The Bad Guys 2. It wasn't a premiere. It was just for the cast.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, fun.

[Dax Shepard]

And I went and it was so fun. And I loved the movie. Did you see the first one?

[Lily Padman]

No. What I want.

[Dax Shepard]

They do action so well. That's the unique thing about this particular franchise is the actions. Off the charts. And it was great. The Bad Guys 2. And that is out in theaters 8-1-2. Take your loved ones. You'll love it. Please enjoy. Sam Rockwell.

[Lily Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Sam Rockwell]

I'm thrilled I got you some chocolate.

[Lily Padman]

Dex is on track.

[Sam Rockwell]

I don't know if you're into it. Gorgeous. I don't know which ones you want to trade.

[Lily Padman]

No, both seem so.

[Sam Rockwell]

I took the one with the almond. Sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I would have had the one with the almond too.

[Sam Rockwell]

What is this place on?

[Dax Shepard]

Hillhurst?

[Sam Rockwell]

God damn. They really know what they're doing. Yeah. During Matcha.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you want to pull off that too?

[Sam Rockwell]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's see.

[Sam Rockwell]

How fucking how much caffeine can you take in a day?

[Dax Shepard]

We're going to need a pack of cigarettes at some point. It's been a long time for me.

[Sam Rockwell]

I had a cigarette recently.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did?

[Sam Rockwell]

And I had one in seven years.

[Dax Shepard]

On the deck of a boat or on Easter Island. Okay. So not a terrible gas.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What were you doing on Easter Island?

[Sam Rockwell]

I was doing a. Oh, we're recording, aren't we?

[Dax Shepard]

We're always recording.

[Lily Padman]

We're always recording.

[Dax Shepard]

We're going to miss out on an Easter Island.

[Sam Rockwell]

I was with John Malkovich and we just were hanging, avoiding people and we started talking about cigarettes and then, you.

[Lily Padman]

Know, you need a one.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. When's the last time you smoked a cigarette?

[Dax Shepard]

I know, exactly. Because I had to quit. You know, I was a very heavy smoker, so. In September. 20 years.

[Sam Rockwell]

20 years.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. Yeah. Were you ever a heavy smoker?

[Sam Rockwell]

No, I was always a dilettante smoker. So, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You have this. It's a very enviable. You can do everything, but you're not addicty. Right?

[Sam Rockwell]

I mean, I'm a little addicty with the gym. It's definitely a better addiction, as you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Because you have a great gym.

[Dax Shepard]

We just perused it.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

You push the sled. You pull the sled.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. Is that how you hurt your back pulling a sled?

[Sam Rockwell]

It's fucking zoom and FaceTime training two dimensional image with a trainer and they can't see your form. So I'm really so over zoom and even therapy. Like I did therapy on FaceTime. I just got sick of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, I'm guessing you were already seeing that therapist in person. Right. Because I started in Covid.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, you started in therapy. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And I started on FaceTime, and I think that did a lot for me. It was another dude.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not super trusting of other dudes.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And there was some distance, and I ended up loving that. Cause I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm not like, in a room with a man. Or I'm having all those weird things about being in a room with, you know, a dad.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because the therapist is kind of your dad. Or if you have a male one.

[Sam Rockwell]

Sure. I have a female. I have a woman. And, you know, I've got some mommy issues. So it's good. That's probably good.

[Dax Shepard]

It's all that transference stuff you're projecting onto them.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. And they can be anything. It can be your girlfriend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, whatever.

[Lily Padman]

You start treating them as if you treat those people.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

They're actors.

[Sam Rockwell]

Therapists.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Because they have you come in, they're like, oh, great, I'm Sam's mom. I gotta remember that. And then some other gal comes in. She's like, okay, I'm the shitty sister. Right. You kind of got a code switch and be different.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, you do. I guess. I guess you have to be fast hole. Well, you have to listen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Another key ingredient of acting that's tough. Especially if you've had the same client for like a decade and they're still telling you about some same old broken record.

[Sam Rockwell]

So you've been. You've been only doing a couple years. Got it. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. I've been doing it, like, a while.

[Dax Shepard]

How many years?

[Sam Rockwell]

Since I had a bad breakup in my 20s. And then I got kind of weird. I had a weird phase. And then I had to go to therapy.

[Dax Shepard]

Like the movie shame. Weird phase or not quite like that.

[Sam Rockwell]

Although I could have gone. I could have gone that road, maybe. But not that weird. No. I got what you might call hypochondriacal, sort of neurotic.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, interesting.

[Sam Rockwell]

And it was kind of a post neurosis kind of thing, because throughout my 20s, I wasn't neurotic at all. And around 29, I had this breakup with a very serious girlfriend. And then I just got real sensitive and I had to go see a shrink.

[Dax Shepard]

You thought you were sick? All the time.

[Sam Rockwell]

I got really sensitive. Like car noises.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[Lily Padman]

This sounds like an anxiety disorder.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lily Padman]

I had that panic disorder.

[Dax Shepard]

Ding, ding, ding. When she worked at SoulCycle, which you were just telling me you love, you worked at SoulCycle?

[Lily Padman]

I did the front desk.

[Sam Rockwell]

No shit.

[Lily Padman]

But I got so anxious, I had to quit.

[Sam Rockwell]

No shit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Of course.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's so fucking loud in there.

[Lily Padman]

You know, I'm like, 25 years old, and people would come out and beat me. Passing out. And it was on us to, like, revive them. I was like, I don't have this.

[Sam Rockwell]

Passing out. Of course, because they're doing, like, three classes in a row. Hydrating. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, let's go over our history real quick.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. Okay. Groundlings. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

God. Great memory of the people who ever came backstage after a show. You were among them.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to say you were with Minnie Driver.

[Sam Rockwell]

I came to see Mini. Had you done Idiocracy at that point?

[Dax Shepard]

No, no, no. I had never been in anything. I didn't have a SAG card, I didn't have an agent, and I was already on the Sam Rockwell train. I got on very, very early, and I was already very obsessed with you.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's nice of you to say.

[Dax Shepard]

Truly. I was like, look at this sparkly unicorn.

[Sam Rockwell]

Meanwhile, you're a trained improvisationalist, which is a big skill.

[Dax Shepard]

Nicotine.

[Sam Rockwell]

I need. Oh, nicotine. I thought it was for. I thought we were going to make it or something.

[Lily Padman]

Well, we're not ruling that out.

[Dax Shepard]

If it goes perfectly, that's where it went. But, yes. You came backstage and we had just done an improv show, and you were so complimentary. Again, I didn't have an agent. I was 28. I'm like, it's never gonna happen. Just you being effusive about thinking I was funny and that you had seen me be funny, and I was a huge fan of yours. Literally bought me time. I was like, oh, my God. It was like a little gift that was just.

[Sam Rockwell]

How old am I? What are you saying is that I'm really old?

[Dax Shepard]

No, me and.

[Sam Rockwell]

That you were a kid and I was already a senior.

[Dax Shepard]

Fuck that. I was 28 and didn't have a SAG card or an agent. Time was ticking. That made my year. The fact that you would come to that show and you were so nice. You're such a generous dude. And then a couple years ago, we were in England visiting Kristen on a movie.

[Sam Rockwell]

We hung out with Stanley and Stanley.

[Dax Shepard]

Tucci, who we had interviewed, invited us over for dinner, and you were there, and I exploded with excitement.

[Sam Rockwell]

We were cracking up. Oh, I remember you. Me and Stanley were giggling like 12 year olds.

[Dax Shepard]

Obnoxiously so, perhaps. Yes. Yes.

[Lily Padman]

Do you remember that Dax did a reading of Stanley's book at the dinner?

[Sam Rockwell]

Of course he did.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What did I do wrong that scared you?

[Sam Rockwell]

A little traumatized.

[Dax Shepard]

What was my take? I had a take.

[Lily Padman]

I think you were doing a voice. And you were just really doing a full reading.

[Sam Rockwell]

And I was doing a Stanley impersonation.

[Lily Padman]

That was a big.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's a big swing at a dinner. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The thing I most remember is you telling me about a time in your youth that you went to a sex club in San Francisco.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Was on roller skates.

[Sam Rockwell]

Good segue to White Lotus. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You said you got to this club and you're like, whoa, there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. Then all of a sudden, this dude on roller skates rolls by. And he's fucking jacking himself. Wallies.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's a true story. He was just roller skating. There was a person with a little tiny hammer and a chisel and just abusing their genitals.

[Dax Shepard]

What was the title like? What was the event? Did it have a name?

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, no. I bumped into a friend of mine from, like, elementary school. And he said, I'm doing this thing.

[Dax Shepard]

I got a new thing. I'm doing.

[Sam Rockwell]

I got a new thing.

[Lily Padman]

I have a new hobby.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell you what I'm into now.

[Sam Rockwell]

Hey, check it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Led Zeppelin. No.

[Sam Rockwell]

He said, check it out. And I said, oh, that's kind of cool. It was just not what I imagined. Really? I thought it would be kind of sexier. Yeah. And it wasn't so sexy. I was just like, yeah, no, this is not for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't you find that where the rubber meets the road With a lot of this stuff? It's not what you're hoping for.

[Sam Rockwell]

It sounds good. Look at that. Speaking of sex clubs.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, that was a trap.

[Sam Rockwell]

That was a trap.

[Dax Shepard]

That book isn't there normally.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, is that right?

[Dax Shepard]

And I brought it in.

[Sam Rockwell]

And I said to Monica, talk about therapy.

[Dax Shepard]

This is ointment. And I want to see if the fly flies into it. Because I have some bizarre hunch you also like Crumb.

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, yeah, sure. What's not to like? Stupid. I mean, it's pretty great.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Crumb's the greatest. Okay. Okay, back to this dinner. The dinner was so fun. I had so much fun.

[Sam Rockwell]

I remember laughing a lot. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Another obsession of mine has been Goggins for a while.

[Sam Rockwell]

He's great.

[Dax Shepard]

Could you be happier that anybody's having the moment?

[Sam Rockwell]

I'm so happy you Know. And we'd done Cowboys and Aliens together.

[Dax Shepard]

You met him there?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, we met on that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Sam Rockwell]

I don't know if I ever worked with a friend that closely. So when we did White Lotus, it was really cool to have a shorthand with somebody like that.

[Dax Shepard]

But I did wonder with the. The White Lotus scene in particular, does being really good friends help or hurt? Because it could definitely go either way.

[Sam Rockwell]

It definitely helped because we had to play friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

And I just could make him laugh. He could make me laugh really quickly.

[Lily Padman]

Was it. It wasn't improvised.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Sam Rockwell]

But there were a couple of little things to kind of like Tiny, tiny things.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Mike's too good a writer. You don't wanna mess with it.

[Lily Padman]

Have so many people come up to you about that monologue. More than you would've expected.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's kind of crazy. Yeah. You know, and I was ambivalent. Cause I was worried I wasn't gonna be prepared. Cause I was tired and I'd been doing all these monologues in this South African film.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a 10 page monologue in that one?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, that's right. How do you know that?

[Dax Shepard]

Cause it's my job to learn about you for today. But I told you, this will be the last time I know this much about you.

[Lily Padman]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

And that's it. And I remember I actually went to Billy Crudup, who I've gone to before, to get help on that monologue. So I was a little tuned up. But then I was worried I wasn' going to be able to get off book in time. And then Leslie said, I'll help you. And we went on safari and she got me off book and we saw, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

While you're looking at animals. Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

You know, it was pretty cool.

[Lily Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you in South Africa?

[Sam Rockwell]

We were in South Africa. So we were in this place called Kruger.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

You miss Afari?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Tanzania.

[Sam Rockwell]

Tanzania. Okay. So that's not gorillas. That's more cheetahs and elephants.

[Dax Shepard]

Lion. Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, that stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's classic stuff.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

You got close and Stu.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Terrifyingly so terrifying.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Was Leslie at ease and you were terrified?

[Sam Rockwell]

She was at ease. I was terrified.

[Dax Shepard]

Same.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. No question.

[Dax Shepard]

The first time you see a lion, we're in the little jeep and it's just Kristen and I in the drive room. And all of a sudden the lion's walking, is walking. And I'm like, this is really cool. This is really cool. Now it's getting really close to thing. I'm like, I don't know about this. There's no doors. And then the fucking lion walks up and, you know, it's 24 inches away, and it turns its head and it looks me in the eyes, and I'm like, oh, my God. This thing's just jump and eat me. And Kristen is delighted and not terrified. I was terrified all the time.

[Sam Rockwell]

I don't know what that says about either of you. What's that phrase? The gift of fear, you know?

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Sam Rockwell]

But then maybe, you know, I don't know.

[Lily Padman]

Women walk around this earth with predators everywhere. We are used to it.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's a very good point.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a really.

[Lily Padman]

And now you're around a real predator.

[Dax Shepard]

That's really top of the food chain shit.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's very interesting. I never thought of that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Someone pointed out like, that a woman often gets into a small metal box with another animal that's 2x their size.

[Lily Padman]

That's how we live.

[Dax Shepard]

That's an elevator ride. And I'm like, yeah, it's totally true, man.

[Sam Rockwell]

We had a koala bear. And I was like, you know, they have, like, don't they? What? They famously have chlamydia, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And they have claws, Big claws and chlamydia. And I was like, this thing's gonna eat my face and give me chlamydia.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

Unless it was just laughing at me like, I'm an idiot, you know?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you did that. You worked on the monologue?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, I sort of pitched some things to Mike White. He went for some of it, and then. Yeah, just went in there and did it shave my head and put a tattoo on and some scars, and that was it.

[Dax Shepard]

It's none of our business, but how many takes? What realm of takes was that?

[Sam Rockwell]

You know, they had an earwig. I said, prepare an earwig just in case I get in trouble. And then I didn't need it. I did in one take.

[Lily Padman]

Wow.

[Sam Rockwell]

And then I think we continue to do one takers, you know, and not break it up too much. Mike's just amazing. You know, he's like a Patty Chayefsky kind of writer.

[Dax Shepard]

You're tremendous in it.

[Sam Rockwell]

Thanks.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm sure you've been getting a lot of love, but I hope people give Goggins the love if we can't cut as far as that.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

If you're on your own in a pay phone giving that monologue, I think it's just a different experience.

[Sam Rockwell]

No, absolutely. He was having a great time. He was so happy to have somebody there. He'd been kind of, you know, he was Amy Lou, and they had a different thing. Their thing was more combative.

[Dax Shepard]

And he probably needed a fucking break from that because it cannot be fun to be a dick to your co star in every scene for months.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, he was definitely having a tough time. And Walt gets very serious. He gets very into it, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And so he needed somebody to kind of like, hey.

[Dax Shepard]

So the reason I brought him up is that we interviewed him and then I hung out with him on a Sunday. It was so fun. And we're in the hot tub and then just randomly he says, and I haven't seen your scene yet, so I don't even know you're in. This is like pre that airing. And somehow he says he's friends with you. And I said, oh, my God, you know, I had the most fun night ever in England with him. I said. And then I think I texted him too much. I go, I think I really came on too strong.

[Sam Rockwell]

Not possible.

[Dax Shepard]

And he goes, no, I bet he just, you know, he's in the clouds sometimes, and I bet he doesn't even know. He didn't or did respond to you. And I was like, okay, that's really comforting.

[Sam Rockwell]

Did I not respond well?

[Dax Shepard]

Intermittently?

[Sam Rockwell]

No. I always respond. Even with an emoji.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, it's funny.

[Sam Rockwell]

I'm really good with that. Even if it's just an emoji, I respond, well.

[Dax Shepard]

When I was texting you yesterday, I realized when I looked at the two previous, they were green. So we don't know.

[Lily Padman]

Green.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. What does that mean? Because I got some stuff not going through. I sent some videos to you and Justin. It didn't go through. I think I might need some technical help.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I want to own my own. I got a little carried away with leaving you voice messages of me just going, how much you did, you rascal? My favorite line you've ever said in a movie.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

As Jordan Bush. And so anytime I'd be thinking of it.

[Sam Rockwell]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I would just send you a voice.

[Sam Rockwell]

Right. I remember that of me going, oh, that's right.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet you did, you rascal. Anyhow, how are you going to respond?

[Sam Rockwell]

I love a voice memo. I love a weird voice memo, though. Somebody just called him walkie talkies. Voice memos. Yeah, they're kind of. Are you a voice memo person or you're not?

[Lily Padman]

I'm getting into it. I think it's with age, not wanting to type. Yeah. Laziness.

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, this phone is like really small.

[Lily Padman]

You got an old one yeah, you.

[Sam Rockwell]

Got to, like, really?

[Dax Shepard]

What year is that bad boy? I mean, video didn't go.

[Sam Rockwell]

I think that's maybe what's going on. A lot of stuff wasn't going through today. I think I tried to send you and Justin the picture of Justin a couple of times.

[Dax Shepard]

Justin Long, Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Justin Long is also due in ripe and deserving of the same moment Goggins is having. Because I think there'll be a moment where people will look back and go, oh, right. He was perfect in every single thing he did.

[Sam Rockwell]

He is. He's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

So I'm just flagging him as he deserves. I'm flagging him to the impersonations he could do. We had him.

[Sam Rockwell]

His impersonations are incredible. Is Matt Dillon.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

Matt Dillon is astounding.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he do Matt Dillon?

[Sam Rockwell]

He did Matt Dillon. He did a movie with Matt Dillon. He did it to Matt Dillon on the talk show. I don't think it went great.

[Dax Shepard]

He can do Vince Vaughn so well, who's so hard to do.

[Sam Rockwell]

I know. He's so fucking funny, Vince. I saw him at this hotel. We met for lunch at this Four Seasons. And he starts doing this bit with the waiter. He's like, we want the special. Can you get the special? The chef wants to give us the special. You know, the special thing. And the waiter's like, I'm sorry, sir, no. You know, the chef asked to give us the special. The special meal. Oh, my God, do that. You know what I'm talking about?

[Dax Shepard]

Make it right. Make it.

[Sam Rockwell]

Make it right.

[Dax Shepard]

Make it good.

[Sam Rockwell]

Make it good for us. And he keeps saying. And the waiter doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. At the end, he gets the bill. He says it's free, right? He gets the bill. And he keeps giving the waiter the slicker.

[Dax Shepard]

Should have been free.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, God, he's hysterical.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, bay area.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

1968, you arrive.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

November 5th.

[Sam Rockwell]

November 5th, 1968.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. We welcome you.

[Sam Rockwell]

Nixon was elected. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

On that day.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes. Yes.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know if that's fortuitous or a harbinger of bad things to come.

[Sam Rockwell]

Probably.

[Dax Shepard]

Mom and dad are both actors.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes. And my dad dropped out kind of early. My mother became a painter, and my dad did a lot of. A lot of jobs. We moved to San Francisco in the Tenderloin. I don't know if you know what. The Tenderloin is kind of a sketchy, gnarly.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. In the 70s and 80s.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. My dad had a couple of weapons pulled on him, and he's mugged and sort of. After nine, he got remarried. He had a better job, but he was a union organizer for a while. He drove a cab. And I met Harvey Milkin San Francisco when I was, like, eight.

[Dax Shepard]

Really?

[Sam Rockwell]

We lived in the Castro for a bit. We lived in the Fillmore, the hate, you know, everywhere.

[Dax Shepard]

He relocated to Culver City.

[Sam Rockwell]

He did. He's got Culver City and Santa Monica. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because his bride lives in Santa Monica.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. Yeah. He met her at a Bernie Sanders rally.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sam Rockwell]

They're a groovy couple.

[Dax Shepard]

I just think that's weird to have two actor parents.

[Sam Rockwell]

It is a little weird. Although my dad quit so early.

[Dax Shepard]

You never saw him quit?

[Sam Rockwell]

When I was five. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Sam Rockwell]

So I don't really. Although he's gotten back into acting a little bit, taking classes just for fun. And then my mom's a painter now. She's wild. I mean, I did plays with her when I was, like, a kid.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she took you on stage when you were 10? Did improv in the Village.

[Sam Rockwell]

I mean, I wouldn't call it real improv, but it was. Yeah, but she taught me the basic rules, you know, Always say yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yes and yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

And you're smarter than you think you are. Is that. Isn't that one of them?

[Dax Shepard]

Be a pro at everything. An expert, they say. So they got divorced when you were five?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, they got divorced when I was five.

[Dax Shepard]

She moved to New York City.

[Sam Rockwell]

That was it. My dad had a lot of girlfriends, moved around a lot.

[Lily Padman]

So you were bopping back and forth.

[Sam Rockwell]

In the summer, I'd go visit my mom for a month, and that's how I did a play with her.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you running around and exploring New York as a little kid?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, I was. It was pretty wild. I was talking to Zazi Beats and her mom. Michael Pena was on this movie in South Africa, and Zazi and all these great people at Juno Temple. But I remember talking to her because she lived in Chelsea. It wasn't Chelsea back then. Her mother was from there. And I'm talking to her mother about the 70s, and I realized I'm Zazi's mother's age.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And then I was like, wow, okay. That's what's happening. I could be all their fathers. Juno, everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You're the same age as Zezi's mom, but when you're talking to Zezi, you and I are in a similar situation, which is we have our whole lives. I'm presuming. Flirting with women.

[Sam Rockwell]

Sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

It's why I get out of bed?

[Sam Rockwell]

Sure, of course. Well, Zazi and I in this cartoon are romantic, interesting. She's the fox, I'm the wolf. And then I'm like, wait a minute. What?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Hold on. I'm how much older than your mother?

[Sam Rockwell]

What's happening?

[Dax Shepard]

There's two themes I want to explore in this ride of ours.

[Sam Rockwell]

Let's do it.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to explore charm.

[Sam Rockwell]

If I have to pee in this thing, is that going to be. How's that going to go down?

[Dax Shepard]

That'll dovetail nicely into my themes. I want to talk about charm. And I want to talk about fuel.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes, yes.

[Dax Shepard]

The fuel of life for me from very young. These are parallels I've noticed when I was researching you. I know my explanation. So dancing.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Love dancing. Dance immediately in junior high, at the dances and immediately realize I'm the only boy dancing. All these girls like this.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's a way to meet girls. That's exactly right. I mean, I. I was not. Man. I'm a faker. Baker Dancer. When I did Fosse, I had to really learn some stuff, right? So my shit's really like, Baker, Baker.

[Dax Shepard]

I implore everyone to go and watch. There's these montages of you entering Fallon. Oh, yeah, you're.

[Sam Rockwell]

Now, see, those are the same moves. If you Google. If you look at it, it's just the same.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you keep upping it. I was watching it this morning, and what's so funny is you're upping it. You're upping it. You're upping it. And I was saying. I was saying out loud to Chris, I'm like, I don't know where he's gonna go with the next appearance. And you come out with a fucking cane because there's nowhere to go.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, that was a L. Into a Willy Wonka entrance by accident. Yeah. It's definitely a way to get attention. I think that I've always pictured myself kind of like a Chris Walken build. You're sort of like that. I always wanted to be like a lanky Tommy Hearn's Chris Walken kind of stretch limo. Yeah. And I always pictured myself that way. But actually, I'm not. You know, I actually have T. Rex arms. And, you know, like, if I were to throw out a jab, in my mind, I'm Muhammad. I'm Tommy Hearns or something. But actually, no, I'm like this guy, right?

[Dax Shepard]

You're more Sugar Ray.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah. I'm more like, you know, the guy Mayweather knocked out, but so I think I have, like, Delusions of grandeur. I don't know where that came from.

[Dax Shepard]

But there's a stubbornness where you go, like, I refuse to accept this.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so how do I maneuver around? Because that's not the vision I have for my life.

[Sam Rockwell]

But when I look back on a lot of the actors that I admire, Nicholson, Pacino, Daenery, you know, they're not big guys. And I think with that comes the gift of fury. And I think that that's a good gift. You know, like a John Malkovich or somebody like that who I just worked with, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And Turturro and Gary Oldman, you know, they have the gift of fury.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

You're not going to accept whatever it is you've been dealt.

[Lily Padman]

I like the idea of you saying. I think it's very honest, just that you walk around kind of with the vision of who you are. And then sometimes you look in the mirror and it's like, oh, wow, that's actually not. I think I have that, too. It's like, oh, I think I look like that. But then I look in the mirror and it's like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. I better not look in the mirror. I'm better off.

[Dax Shepard]

Just like, less and less look in.

[Sam Rockwell]

The mirror, let me tell you.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

But, yeah, you have to be slightly delusional to be successful.

[Dax Shepard]

And by the way, you can infect other people's view of you with that belief in yourself.

[Sam Rockwell]

Totally. Totally.

[Dax Shepard]

That is like. Yeah, we don't, like, articulate or break down what are the ingredients of confidence, but that's what it is. Like, I've created a reality bubble. I've sucked you into it, and now you're not sure either if I'm a five or a nine.

[Sam Rockwell]

Exactly. Right, Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

So you. I mean, there's so many things I would love to talk about. Did you go to a stoner high school?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Kind of an outwardly bound thing.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, I did Urban Pioneers. That was kind of like an outward bound. It had a reputation for being. For the flunkies. And I was flunking out of high school for sure, cutting class, you know, smoking pot. And I heard about Urban Pioneers. It was supposed to be kind of. Kind of rough, but the guy, Wayne McDonald, kind of changed my life in a way because we did these, like, hiking trips for two weeks. But the thing about the hiking trips, you had to solicit this food, so you have to go to Pizza Hut and ask them to give you 10 cans of spaghetti sauce. I think the rule was you couldn't Even if you had money to buy the spaghetti sauce on the fly, you had to solicit. So it taught you to hustle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

You know what I mean? And it was a cool lesson. He says, if you don't solicit this food, you're not gonna have margarine when you want it on the trip. And you're gonna need that margarine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Believe you me, you'll need that loaf of bread.

[Dax Shepard]

There's gonna come a time where you're gonna want that margarine.

[Sam Rockwell]

So, you know, you had to get the food, man.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

If you wanted to have a marshmallow to roast.

[Lily Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So you get the, like, real, real acting bug at that point.

[Sam Rockwell]

I went back to the acting program. I auditioned for the play. I watched Malkovich and Death of a Salesman on tv and I just decided to do that monologue. I got the play, but then I.

[Dax Shepard]

Got a movie in San Francisco.

[Sam Rockwell]

In San Francisco, I got a lead in a film, first film. And then I decided from that, with the confidence from doing the film to go to New York and sort of pursue acting. And that's kind of what happened. I lived with my mom the first year. Then I started going to sublet. To sublet, working in restaurants. And then I started getting commercials and I got a couple of episodics like Equalizer.

[Dax Shepard]

And you did all the shows every New York actor does.

[Sam Rockwell]

When I look at your resume, all that nypd.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And then I didn't know what. Really, what the hell I was doing. And I went to a summer program. I did the summer program with Bill. He says, do the two year. I said, ah, you know, I'm very busy. You know, I'm like 24.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm making money.

[Sam Rockwell]

What are you doing? He's like, you know, I got this Colgate commercial and, you know, I'm doing Law and Order. He's like, just do the two year. It'll go by like that. Just do it. And so I did the two year program and changed my life.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was Meisner. Still to this day, I don't. I read an actor prepare Stanislavski, but when people say Meisner, I'm not positive I know what it means.

[Sam Rockwell]

Did you do any Meisner? Did you any training?

[Lily Padman]

Yes, because I studied theater and college. And so, yeah, we had to do Meisner.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But for people who don't know what Meisner is.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah. So Stella Adler, you know, Strasberg, Meisner went to Russia. They met Stanislavski, they came back, then they divided Meisner's about the what if? And Strasberg was about what happened for an emotional prep. If so. But Meisner's argument to Strasberg is like, well, what are you going to do if you're a heroin addict? Or if your character shoots yourself in the face? Like what are you going to really shoot yourself in the face? So method meaning Strasberg.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Meisner would argue that using your imagination is more practical.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Michigan. Ding ding ding. Oh I'm such a proud Michigander. I love Michigan. The people, the nature in summertime in Michigan. I'm telling you, I would put it up against any place in the world. It's such a beautiful state and it's a great place for everyone, especially kids, to experience all four seasons with beaches, trails and snow a stone's throw away. What you may not know is Michigan is also a great place to work. You can have a quality lifestyle and a rewarding tech career. The fast growing and rapidly evolving automotive and clean energy industries offer opportunities for career advancement no matter what your skill level. Plus, Michigan offers accessible housing, exciting nightlife and an inclusive community for all. It's really a one of a kind place. And do not forget the Lakes, Lakes, Lakes, Lakes, Lakes Lakes. Live your best 9 to 5 and 5 to 9 you can in Michigan. Go to themichiganlife.org to learn more. We are supported by Quints. You know when you look back at photos of yourself in your all black punk stage in high school or wearing head to toe 90s neon and you wonder what was I thinking? Sometimes trends just don't stand the test of time. If you want an outfit that you're going to feel great about both now and later, check out the wardrobe staples from Quince. They're classic and elevated, so you're going to love the way you look now and years from now. And they're made with high quality materials so they'll hold up for years to come too. I love Quince. I love their cashmere so much.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. If you want to revamp your wardrobe, which I suggest per season.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Add some pieces in that are fun, kind of just for the season. There's some really good summer pieces, some great button downs that you can also wear by the pool.

[Dax Shepard]

They have European linen beach shorts right now, organic silk polos. Stick to staples that last with elevated essentials from quint. Go to quints.comdax for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U I N C E.comdax to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.comdax we are supported by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check your flights on time first before heading to the airport. Like, you know, to check your presentation is saved first before closing your laptop. That's one mistake I'll never make again. Checking first is smart, so check all state first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by BetterHelp. You know, there's still a bit of surrounding stigma for men's health. I think it.

[Lily Padman]

I think so too.

[Dax Shepard]

Still be challenging for men to admit they're struggling and seek help.

[Lily Padman]

I have a friend who just started therapy, a male friend, and he loves it so much. And. But yes, I think it's taken a little extra long because they're right. There is a stigma, but there really shouldn't be.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide and keep it all together. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the U. S. Suffer from depression every year. And it's often undiagnosed. If you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. A friend, a loved one, a therapist. I'm a man. I've benefited greatly from therapy. And BetterHelp is a great option if you're looking to start therapy. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Armchairs get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Dax that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Dax.

[Sam Rockwell]

Tell me about Idiocracy. You and Justin and Maya Rudolph are fucking phenomenal. I love that movie. And I know Judd a little bit, but how did you come up with that character? How did Justin. You guys had scenes together, right?

[Dax Shepard]

We had no scenes together, but we hung out a bunch on the movie. That's like where we met. And we would go, you're hysterical in that. Oh, my God. Thank you.

[Sam Rockwell]

So what do you do? How did you prepare for that? And I want to ask Justin the same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

I had done a version of that character, Frito on stage at the ground and I was doing an episode Of King of the Hill. I got along really well with Mike Judge. And then two scripts of his were floating around. One of them was 3001 is what it was called. I read it, and I said to him, I would love to come in and read this role for Frito. But he was written as, like, kind of morbidly obese. And he's like. Well, I kind of had someone else in mind, you know, that wasn't. Yeah, I don't know if that's the one for you. I begged him to let me come in, and I did Frito, this character I'd already done before. And he was just like. I could just hear him laughing, right? I was like, okay. That's all I was hoping. I'm like, yeah, I'm not the dude you wrote. It's not the right guy. But he's laughing, and that's all I really want.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then he cast me, and then I gained, like, 25 pounds in three.

[Sam Rockwell]

Weeks because the guy had to be eating fructose and all the time or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Flaturin. I think he ate Flasher. And so.

[Sam Rockwell]

God. How did you come up with the character for Groundlings? How did you come with that initially?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God.

[Sam Rockwell]

What was the impetus for that?

[Dax Shepard]

She's so mad.

[Sam Rockwell]

Are you mad?

[Lily Padman]

I'm not mad at all. But we do have to learn about you. But that's fine. Let's hear.

[Sam Rockwell]

All right, all right. I want to talk about your Meisner experience.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, God, no.

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, no, we can turn it around on me. It's fine. But I'm just saying it helps me.

[Dax Shepard]

We still have to go through your entire Meister.

[Sam Rockwell]

Okay, sorry. What do you want to know? But just quickly, Groundlings, how did. It just came out of a suggestion from the audience?

[Dax Shepard]

No, no. We also wrote sketches. Right. So half the show, like, you came to a Only improv show.

[Sam Rockwell]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But generally, the show there, the Sunday Company, the Saturday Company, it's all sketches. And then you do, like, three improv sets during the show. But mostly it's all written. It's all Saturday Night Live, like, sketches. And so the first time I ever did it was with Melissa McCarthy, and we worked at a grocery store, and I was a bagger, and she was a cashier, and we were falling in love. And you can imagine Melissa McCarthy.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's so good.

[Dax Shepard]

It was so fun.

[Sam Rockwell]

Was she a dummy, too?

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I got a tape deck in my truck. You want to listen to my cassettes?

[Lily Padman]

She talked like that, too.

[Dax Shepard]

She had her own. She had the Female version of freedom.

[Sam Rockwell]

You guys just said, we're gonna do it.

[Dax Shepard]

We work at a grocery store and we're falling in love and we're stupid and we're. Yeah, we're stupid as it gets, and we're made for each other.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

She is so excited to go listen to some cassette tapes in my truck. But all of this is based on the dude in high school who always talked about his uncle who was a tow truck driver. I mean, that's where it really comes from.

[Sam Rockwell]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a guy. It's very exaggerated, but this.

[Lily Padman]

No, I'm. No, just say it.

[Sam Rockwell]

What is it?

[Dax Shepard]

She just had goggins look on her face. She was going. It was like a half smile.

[Sam Rockwell]

What is it?

[Dax Shepard]

Wrap it up. She's telling me to wrap it up.

[Sam Rockwell]

Okay, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause the show's not about.

[Lily Padman]

He's normally not supposed to say out loud the thing. I'm projecting. But you can't help it.

[Dax Shepard]

None of them are on camera. It's fun to call up. Anyways, this guy was just always like, my uncle has a tow truck. And I went out with him and we hooked up a brand new Trans Am.

[Sam Rockwell]

Wow, that is fantastic. Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Real people out there.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know that I've ever had a new character since high school. I just accumulated all these kids I met and I was doing them. The robots knew this.

[Lily Padman]

He is a character. It's very cute.

[Sam Rockwell]

What's the robot character?

[Dax Shepard]

I am a robot and I always talk like this. I want to be a real boy. He wants to be a real boy.

[Lily Padman]

It's really sad.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's a Pinocchio story. But he's got a cold and he's a real.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, we gotta get to you. You go to New York because you do have this really, really interesting section before because you're a little older like me. When you finally start working consistently and you actually know, okay, this is gonna be a viable thing because your kind of breakthrough is like, 28. You did a movie where you got a lot of attention.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, well, it's weird, you know, and this happened to my ex girlfriend, Sarita. She was bartending and she'd done a movie with Denzel Washington and she got fucking recognized and she was fucking bartending.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And I was like, this is weird. And then it happened to me. I was busing tables and I got recognized for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And I'm like, would you like some more bread, sir? You know?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's a weird experience. And you have to go Back to.

[Dax Shepard]

The rest of it. That's humbling, right?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, that's really humbling. You know, there's that story about Dustin Hoffman getting in the unemployment line after shooting the Graduates.

[Lily Padman]

It.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's crazy, you know, cuz not everything pays, you know?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

About 28, 29, I was starting to work more as an actor.

[Dax Shepard]

And were you busy in Labyrinth during that time? So Labyrinth is this theater started by Philip Seymour Hoffman and.

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, actually, no. It was started by Paul Calderon and his wife and Johnny Ortiz. And then Phil came in later, and I was one of the first gringos in there. And then Phil came along and then he kind of reinvented it with Stephen Girgis and Johnny Ortiz. Okay. They kind of took it over. It is what it is today.

[Dax Shepard]

And how did you get on with Phil?

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, Phil was a mentor and a close friend, and he directed me in a play. You know, he was always the sober guy. I was just cheeseburgers, cigarettes, and coffee usually. And then, you know, that snuck up on us.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was grumpy.

[Sam Rockwell]

He was grumpy, but in an endearing way. Yeah, he had a great laugh. You know, he loved Justin.

[Dax Shepard]

Weren't the three of you somehow.

[Sam Rockwell]

And, like, he came up to Williamstown to direct a reading. Justin wanted to read art, and Bradley came, and Bradley was already doing a play there. And Phil said, yeah, I'll direct it. And we're like, really? And he's like, yeah, I'll come up. I'll direct it. He just wanted to hang out. Yeah, I remember we got in a car. You know the fart app? You know? You ever seen the fart app?

[Dax Shepard]

You know, the iPhone? It makes every kind of different fart noises.

[Sam Rockwell]

So Justin hooked it up to the car speaker in Williamstown and. Wait, is this turned down? That's the brown Mosquito. This is the. This is called Burrito Maximo.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

This is called Laundry day. Now you know why it's called laundry day. So he hooked it up to the car speaker, and Phil was in the back, and he would just ask people randomly questions. Hey, do you know where the Pizza Hut. And they go, yeah, it's right. And he just pushed the button. And it was. You know, because the car speaker was really loud.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And Phil had this very infectious laugh. And he would laugh so hard.

[Dax Shepard]

A.

[Sam Rockwell]

Everyone was kind of intimidated by Phil, but he was a brilliant director. He. He directed us in a play and he was. The things he would say. Eric Pagosi and I had a scene together, and he would say these Things to us that I never forgot. Eric and I had a scene where he was the devil and I was Judas. It was a funny scene. So it got a lot of laughs. And Phil was like, you know, I know you guys get a lot of. You're getting a lot of laughs and that's all great, but I kind of want to. I want to make the audience uncomfortable. You know, that's what theater's about. And if you want to get laughs, that's cool. But, you know, he says, sam, you're playing Judas Iscariot. You know, he's a danger to himself and others. When you come out, you're drunk. I want you to make the audience a little uncomfortable. I want you to like. I want them to like, maybe want to leave.

[Dax Shepard]

Be a little scared.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. And that was a great thing to say to an actor because it's kind of an impossible goal.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Sam Rockwell]

So, I mean, Phil had a way of really inspiring you.

[Dax Shepard]

Back to the charm thing. I heard you tell a story about Bill. So the acting teacher, the Meisner teacher.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He was an infamous teacher. Like a very famous.

[Sam Rockwell]

And that's where I met my coach, Terry Knickerbocker.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Which is the most delightful story ever in children. I love this story. We'll get to it.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But you talk about Bill at one point, basically saying, like, you're fucking lazy.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, yeah. You said that to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And this is back to the charm thing.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

No one's gonna feel bad for anyone who's charming. I'm not asking for that.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I definitely think you have to be more self policing if you're charming. If you can kind of get away with murder, that's interesting because you can get away with being lazy.

[Sam Rockwell]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And so it's weirdly like this wonderful gift you get given, but can also spell your demise.

[Sam Rockwell]

It was a good lesson. And he said, yeah, that's so lazy. Like, pull it together. And it had a big effect on me.

[Dax Shepard]

Around this time, when you get the first thing, you're 29ish in the 90s still, you had met Terry. Terry Knickerbocker had filled in and taught some of the classes.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And you got along really well with him.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you asked him to help you on this audition.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But this relationship you developed with Terry, you have not not used him for a project since.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a very special relationship. That's like 26 years of doing that. I read an interview with him talking about you guys working together. My understanding of what you guys do is even for the White Lotus thing that we all saw.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You sit down with this thing. You're not an addict. Right. So we start with the fact that you don't. You, Sam Rockwell, doesn't know what it's like to be an addict. You're also not a Buddhist or an Eastern philosopher.

[Sam Rockwell]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

So you and Terry's job is to start anchoring these details. Particularism. What is it called?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, particularizations. As if. Substitutions. Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

So you and Terri have done this for 26 years, and I'm assuming when you're going through it together, you're exploring your own history in things that you can attach emotionally that resemble the thing.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so these sessions with Terry have to be really therapeutic, no.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, yeah. And he's a big therapy guy, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you free associating when work with Terry? Absolutely. And letting everything out like, oh, wow, that's weird. That does remind me of Blank.

[Sam Rockwell]

Absolutely.

[Lily Padman]

Very intimate.

[Dax Shepard]

So is it fair to say Terry might know you in a way better than any person alive?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And I him now, as a super fan of yours, as I said I was. And I followed everything.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I had periods as a fan of yours where I was like, oh, no. Why isn't this guy getting what he deserves? What is your emotional ride through all the highs and lows?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, I've had some. A lot of my shit's been Afterlife.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I saw Moon, and I was like, well, here we go, motherfuckers. It's on. What a performance.

[Sam Rockwell]

Jesse James Galaxy Quest had Afterlife. I thought that was gonna be like Ghostbusters, you know, we went to the premiere.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And it did okay. But, like, Jesse James bombed. Even American Beauty beat out the Green Mile. But I've been lucky. A couple, you know, like Vice and Charlie's Angeles and stuff like that.

[Dax Shepard]

But they're like moments, and then there's these lulls, and then there's these highs and these lows, and then Three Billboards comes out, and then you win an Academy Award, and. And to me at that, if I'm you.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're 49 at that point, maybe.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you have a lot of these moments where it was like, okay, well, finally I can just take a breath and it's established and I'm safe?

[Sam Rockwell]

I mean, every day, you know, you're like, ah, can I just relax?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. When are we gonna coast a little bit?

[Sam Rockwell]

As, you know, as you get older, taking the working out Stuff, for example, you gotta work even harder. You gotta memorize lines even harder. As you get older, I think you.

[Dax Shepard]

Want to feel safe. You want to go, oh, I have finally earned the right.

[Sam Rockwell]

You're never safe, as you know. Right? You're never fucking safe.

[Dax Shepard]

It's all an illusion of all an illusion. You're such an artist. I don't say that lightly. I don't think of many people as artists. You're such an artist. I could have this fantasy where it's like, oh, no, he's never given a fuck. He finds another interesting thing to do. He focuses on that, and then another interesting thing. Some of them pop, some of them don't. He doesn't care. He probably isn't motivated by money. Like, I can create that fantasy about you, but I don't know if that's actually the reality.

[Sam Rockwell]

I'm ambitious, whatever that means, you know, like you're ambitious to do good work. But I will say I have turned down money and I have said no. I mean, that's the only power you have, is to say no.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that hard for you to do? Of course, I was unable to do it. When they threw money at me, I always said yes, and then I paid the price ultimately for that.

[Sam Rockwell]

Did you? Do you feel you paid the price for that?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, because I knew I shouldn't do a thing originally. That's why I said no to begin with. And then they threw enough money at me, I said, yeah, I'll do it for that. What if I never work again? I need that money.

[Sam Rockwell]

All the rules have changed too. I think sometimes you can be too precious too, you know?

[Lily Padman]

What do you hope people, if they had to finish this sentence about you as an actor. Let's say you're dead. Okay. Sorry for a long way.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes, Monica, I'm dead.

[Lily Padman]

And people say, he was blank.

[Sam Rockwell]

God, I had a good answer for that. Don't we always have a good answer on your gravestone kind of thing? And then I always forget.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I know what you would want.

[Sam Rockwell]

What? What's that?

[Dax Shepard]

Either he was adventurous.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, that's pretty good. I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is also.

[Sam Rockwell]

You'd want that too, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Slash brave.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes, slash brave.

[Lily Padman]

Or dangerous.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think you. Do you want dangerous?

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, every actor needs a little bit of danger, I think.

[Lily Padman]

What about you as a person?

[Sam Rockwell]

Forget me as a person. Yeah, well, you know, I'm a pretty courteous. I'm a nice guy. But, I mean, that's a good question. I don't know the answer to that what would you want?

[Dax Shepard]

He was so playful.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, that's pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm here to play. I came to this planet to play. And the more we can play, the better.

[Sam Rockwell]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because it's a beat down. Everyone you love is going to die. All this shit's going to happen.

[Sam Rockwell]

Did you ever see Manny Pacquiao hit the midst with Freddie Roach? He's smiling.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

The relationship with those guys is really interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Freddie Roach is so fascinating.

[Sam Rockwell]

Freddie Roach is amazing. And they're kind of patting that boxer on the head like their kid.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's play. Somehow it's play. You had a fun thing you're talking about in an interview. You're saying, like, people are so shocked when actors act.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes. That's a good topic, actually. I find that fascinating.

[Dax Shepard]

I totally agree with you.

[Sam Rockwell]

But Christian Bale, like, that's a shocker. Why is that a shocker?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

When they act out on set, you're saying, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

You pay somebody to essentially be a child.

[Lily Padman]

Yes.

[Sam Rockwell]

And then you're shocked when they act like a child. It's like, what do you expect, man? One minute you're laughing, you're crying, you're like a little infant. You're being paid to be an infant.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And then cut. And then somehow, magically, you feel like you did on Saturday morning. It's a little preposterous that that's the expectation.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's insane. I was doing Poltergeist, you know, it's basically an abduction film where they abduct your daughter, but it's a ghost.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

I did some scene where I was crying about my daughter and then I couldn't turn it off and I had to go. And that happens a lot. Yeah. Let it all hang out. Sometimes that happens.

[Dax Shepard]

Add in, I think the thing people don't necessarily realize is that everyone else's job is mechanical enough that it can be done. And you had a rehearsal, so camera's already done the dolly move 12 times. They have marks, they have all their settings. They're going to do a good job. You're going to fail at your job many times in front of these hundred people.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna fail over and over again. Someone's gonna come talk to you.

[Sam Rockwell]

By the way, they fail too. You know, it's out of focus.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's why after you failed eight times and you finally are getting it on nine and a guy drops a flag into the shot, it's a bummer, because you're coming from fear so often you think that was the time.

[Sam Rockwell]

Absolutely. You're coming from fear. Alison Loman on Matchstick Men. She shot a scene, she had to cry and cry and then it was out of focus and they had to go back. And that happens. Violet Davis did that on Doubt with Phil and Meryl Streep. That happened to her. She had to shoot something. Again, very emotional.

[Dax Shepard]

How did you get on with Nic Cage in that match, Dick?

[Sam Rockwell]

Man, we had a great time.

[Dax Shepard]

I feel like you two are both equally weird in a way that could either be flammable or really wonderful.

[Sam Rockwell]

Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned Vincent. Justin and I, we were hanging out a lot. We were doing these Elvis impersonations a lot. We would stay up late and do this improv that Elvis was at the parole board or something and we would switch, take turns playing Elvis.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And Vince was always the best Elvis. And at the time. So I started doing basically Vince's version of Elvis for Nick Cage. And he had just gotten with Elvis's daughter.

[Lily Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's obsessed with Elvis.

[Sam Rockwell]

And he married her on the film. During the film, they broke up. So I realized, oh, maybe this is not cool. But he was cool with it. He was laughing.

[Dax Shepard]

We gotta talk about bad guys, too. I love bad guys. Bad guys one is awesome.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. It's fun as animation stuff. It's fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The premise of part two is they're now good guys.

[Sam Rockwell]

They're now good guys. They're on probation and then hijinks ensue.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you have to be bad guys again.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And it's all Danielle's fault.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We can't name it bad guys and not have you guys be bad.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You talk about walking a lot.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Who are your favorites right now? Who are you horny for right now?

[Sam Rockwell]

Christopher Walken, always. Speaking of horned up. I forgot about the horned up elephant on the safari who almost killed us.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, tell me.

[Sam Rockwell]

He was in heat, I guess, apparently, because everything was a little scary, but pretty pleasant. Elephants. And then on the way to the airport, this very angry elephant came and they said, well, he's in heat.

[Dax Shepard]

Was he dripping from the ears and shit?

[Sam Rockwell]

We didn't get that close, thank God. But he was coming towards the car.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

And apparently couldn't find a mate. He was tearing down trees.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, no. He's like an incel.

[Sam Rockwell]

He was all horned up.

[Dax Shepard]

He's an incel.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah, Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a 10,000 pound incel.

[Lily Padman]

He's a cellophane.

[Sam Rockwell]

No, he was angry, but yeah. Chris Walken, John Malkovich, Juno Temple's fantastic.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, what a monster.

[Sam Rockwell]

You know, Pena. I had a great time with Pena.

[Dax Shepard]

He's so good.

[Sam Rockwell]

I read the monologue with Pena. Actually, we were in South Africa, and he was like, you gotta do this.

[Lily Padman]

I have a personal question about Leslie. Because she just came up and it just made me think, first of all, how'd you guys meet? I don't know if I know this story.

[Sam Rockwell]

We met at the Chat. It's so Hollywood. We chat to Marmont. She likes that.

[Lily Padman]

I love. That's amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you get the Bolognese?

[Sam Rockwell]

It's a meat. Cute. Wait. Huh? No, we used to eat the Bolognese. Yeah. Do they still have that there?

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, they do.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. We met in the lobby. And back then, you know, it was a little sketchy. And there was a guy named Will, I think, and he introduced us. I knew I knew her from somewhere. It was like that Dreamweaver moment and we saw each other, eye contact. And then I realized it was Talladega and stuff. And then I heard she studied at Bill's studio.

[Lily Padman]

Oh.

[Sam Rockwell]

And so I was like, oh, thank God she's not a shitty actress. Because, you know, I like this girl. So. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

18 years. You're 18?

[Sam Rockwell]

Is it 18? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's impressive.

[Sam Rockwell]

You, too, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. But you travel so much. Extra impressive, I think.

[Sam Rockwell]

But we don't have kids. But we have a dog.

[Dax Shepard]

And you live in New York.

[Sam Rockwell]

We live in New York.

[Lily Padman]

And it was a choice. No kids is a choice.

[Sam Rockwell]

That's a choice. Yeah. She just wanted dogs. And I was like, all right, let's do the dogs.

[Lily Padman]

We'll stick with the dogs.

[Sam Rockwell]

Stick with the dogs, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, my only failure in this is, I know there's something juicy with mom.

[Lily Padman]

But we do it.

[Dax Shepard]

I know there's something really juicy.

[Sam Rockwell]

There's always something juicy with Mom.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, we need to. Elvis.

[Sam Rockwell]

I mean, look at this.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry, one last question. You did Confessions of a Dangerous Mind?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

This is again. This is before you came to see me in the Growlings. I'd already seen it.

[Sam Rockwell]

Which, by the way, didn't do well initially. And George killed it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Great fucking movie. You're phenomenal. So for people who don't know, it's based on an autobiography by Chuck Barris, who was the host of the Gong Show.

[Sam Rockwell]

Did you ever watch the Gong Show? You're too young for that.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, great.

[Dax Shepard]

Game. Showy as it gets.

[Sam Rockwell]

It's the best show of all time.

[Lily Padman]

I want to find it on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And the host of the show, Chuck Barris.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Wrote a book claiming he was a CIA operative and then he had assassinated.

[Sam Rockwell]

And then Charlie Kaufman took the book and adapted it into an amazing screenplay.

[Dax Shepard]

And he stands by this story that he assassinated people while being a host of the Gong Show.

[Sam Rockwell]

He does.

[Dax Shepard]

You hung out with him a ton leading up to it.

[Sam Rockwell]

George gave me a video camera and said, just go live with the guy.

[Lily Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was open to that.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh, he loved it. And then Mary, his wife. Yeah, we hung out tons. He loved Les Paul, the guitarist. Yeah. He loved the duo. And then he would air guitar, and he did all the lines for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you allowed to say what your kind of conclusion was? We don't think he really killed me.

[Sam Rockwell]

He had a nervous breakdown.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Sam Rockwell]

And felt probably that although he created the Dating Game and he did a lot of cool shit, maybe he didn't feel good about things. And he probably made stuff up. But then again, sometimes I wonder, because sometimes he would say stuff arresting, and you'd kind of go, wait a minute.

[Lily Padman]

I mean, whether it's true or not, he probably believed it.

[Sam Rockwell]

I think he did. I'd say, how many people did you kill? And he'd say, about 10 or 12. I'd say, really? Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

You'd say, how many people did you kill?

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah. We got into it. One of the best scenes we had to cut. I think it's deleted scenes. Fred. Fred Savage plays the bellhop. There's these great scenes with the bellhop that are just amazing. And I'm, like, naked with a beard. It's some of my favorite stuff. It's just the movie was too long, but we had a good time with that.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you heard Elvis talk about the bellhops?

[Sam Rockwell]

No. What happened with the bellhops?

[Dax Shepard]

There's a great bit of footage online.

[Sam Rockwell]

Of course he talks about bellhops.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's on stage and he has missed some shows. And it's at the height of people accusing him of being an opiate addict, which of course he was.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And he goes, I just want to tell everybody I'm healthy and I'm not doing drugs.

[Sam Rockwell]

I'm doing karate.

[Dax Shepard]

And, you know, he goes, all this comes from those. Those little bellhops, those little rats running around. He's got this whole.

[Sam Rockwell]

Is this at the end?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. He might even be laying down on stage on his back telling us, wow. But he's talking about the bellhops, and they're the ones that spread the rumors about him, these little bellhops. And you.

[Sam Rockwell]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's great. That's online. You could watch him.

[Sam Rockwell]

Haven't you always wanted to play Remember Kurt Russell as Elvis?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Rockwell]

He's just fascinating character.

[Dax Shepard]

My brother and I were obsessed with him when we were little kids. My brother's here too.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And we would call when we were at a hotel, we would call the front desk over and over again. Cause we thought it was so funny that Elvis would shoot his TV sets in hotel room. And we just were like, what else did he do? So we would call down to the front desk at like 10 and 15 and go, well, this is the king in 304. I accidentally filled up my bathtub with a lot of sausage. Could you send somebody up to get all this sausage? And it's just like we try to think of insane things we could call and say had happened in the hotel room.

[Sam Rockwell]

The banana Cocoa puff sandwich or whatever. You gotta see Vince's Elvis.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, everybody see Bad Guys 2. That's out August 2nd. You're a delight. I told Monica, you guys are a delight. I saw you.

[Sam Rockwell]

You're a ravishing delight.

[Dax Shepard]

Calendar and I was is giddy.

[Sam Rockwell]

I'm giddy.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm horny for you.

[Sam Rockwell]

I'm horny for you.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm attracted to you and I'm so glad you came.

[Sam Rockwell]

And how horny are we for Stanley Tucci? Come on.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, the two.

[Sam Rockwell]

We love Stanley.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, well, Rockwell, this has been so fun and thank you.

[Sam Rockwell]

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Sausages in my bath too.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Meanwhile, everyone see Bad guys too.

[Sam Rockwell]

Check it out, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. Squarespace has been along for the ride with us as we've, you know, first just had a website, then started selling merch, and it's grown with us and has helped us scale. If you're a fellow creator, Squarespace makes it easy to monetize your content easily. Sell access to online courses, blogs, videos and memberships. Start with a fully customizable website and earn recurring revenue by gating your content behind a paywall. Simply set the price and choose whether to charge a one time fee or a subscription for access. This is why we love Squarespace. Setting up. That kind of tech sounds hard, but they take all the guesswork out of it. You can get your site up and running quicker than you would have thought possible. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com and promo code DAX to get started today, we are supported by ZipRecruiter. Oh, get recruited. It's summertime, baby, and one of the best times of year. The weather, vacation, jobs. Okay, maybe not everyone is excited about jobs, but summer jobs are a rite of passage. I detassled corn.

[Lily Padman]

You sure did. I worked at a law fir.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh wow. Unconventional. Whether it's a lifeguard, a drama camp counselor, or a tennis instructor, seasonal businesses are in need of employees with specific skills. And that's not always easy to find. Whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role. How do you find top talent before the competition gets them? ZipRecruiter ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology does a deep dive to identify top talent for your roles. And if we're talking about that lifeguard position, the dive's got to be extra deep for safety reasons. I'll see myself out. Gear up for summer with ZipRecruiter's high speed hiring tools. See why 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. Ziprecruiter.com Dax Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com Dax ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire. We are supported by skims.

[Lily Padman]

Yes, let's talk about about skims. I have been raving about their ultimate bra collection. They sent me some new items which was very nice to them. I pretty much live in this bra. It's so comfortable, but it's also cute. You never know when your bra is going to need to be showing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You got to be prepared for the best case scenario.

[Lily Padman]

And actually I really do believe this, that you kind of have to work from the outside in confidence wise.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Lily Padman]

And so when you get dressed in the morning, you want to put on a cute pair. You feel cute underwear and bra.

[Dax Shepard]

And the ultimate bra is the move. It is Skims does it again. Check it out for yourself. Shop Skims Ultimate Bra collection and [e-mail] after you place your order. Be sure to Let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and select our show in the drop down menu that follows. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him hang out. The facts.

[Lily Padman]

We have this very special guest.

[Dax Shepard]

We have the most special guest. My grandson Groot is here. And there's a. There's a explanation for this. I don't want people to think I'm now someone who travels around or you're exploiting him. I don't want anyone to think I'm exploiting him or trying to get ratings. Although obviously this will be a ratings boom because he's so charismatic and cute.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And. But the reason he had to join us for the fact check, I posted a picture of Groot. Groot on Instagram doing a driving lesson in the truck. And I think the perspective of him, because the camera's right in front of him and I'm in the deep back. The comments are almost unanimously. Oh, my God. Groot is humongous. How did he get lost? How big was the bag holding him? And how would you lose this bag? To the degree I was like, I think people think he's three feet tall now because of the perspective of the.

[Lily Padman]

The.

[Dax Shepard]

The photo.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So last night we were in bed and I asked Delta if it would be okay if Groot came on a.

[Lily Padman]

Fact check, proved his size.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. To demonstrate his actual size. And she talked to him and. And he said. Yeah, he was super excited.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And so he had three different outfits that he was debating between. And we landed on this one.

[Lily Padman]

Can't move the.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm going to move the bag. So he has a little bag. He's a little. His little Gelson's bag. I can't wait to show you what's inside his bag. Bag. Also, he has a Stanley. He has his own Stanley and it says Detroit, Michigan on it.

[Lily Padman]

How did he get that?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. But he knows his. I guess he knows his granddad's from Michigan or his grandma.

[Lily Padman]

Both.

[Dax Shepard]

But he has his own Stanley that says Detroit, Michigan on it. Yeah. And he has this incredible.

[Lily Padman]

He has a great outfit on.

[Dax Shepard]

He does. He has little coveralls like me. What are they called? What am I wearing?

[Lily Padman]

Oh, overalls.

[Dax Shepard]

Overalls. Yeah. Because he. If I unbutton.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want to unbutton.

[Lily Padman]

He's wearing a sweater, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Delta was very specific about what he.

[Lily Padman]

Was supposed to wear, but I can.

[Dax Shepard]

Just show you it's overalls it's overalls with some frill. Frill. Yep. And the beautiful red overalls. And then a gorgeous cardigan sweater over that. And he has his cool shoes on. And he has his Stanley Cup. And then. Do you wanna know what's in his bag?

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. He has a tiny bag from Gelson's, which is a LA grocery store.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep. He has his Mac so he can do some work. He has a little tiny Mac his size. And it's a real Mac that looks just like a Mac. And are you ready for this?

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't even know that this was his favorite book. Hogwarts. It's a miniature Harry Potter. It's a Harry Potter book.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Groot loves Harry Potter.

[Lily Padman]

Of course Groot loves Harry Potter. What a sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't he the sweetest guy?

[Lily Padman]

Yes. I love Groot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's so special. Yeah. And if you want at any point to have him with you, just say the word.

[Lily Padman]

We got in a little fight earlier because I asked if I could hold Groot. And you said we could both hold Groot. Yeah, and I said, but you always get to hold Groot. Why don't I get to hold Groot?

[Dax Shepard]

And you wanted the whole, whole time.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You didn't want to share Groot?

[Lily Padman]

No. Because I don't get enough time with Groot.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I don't like to share.

[Lily Padman]

Well, not when I don't get any other time. And we have a little reward for him that Delta made for when he's done.

[Dax Shepard]

Hold that up.

[Lily Padman]

Appearance. It's a group beer float.

[Dax Shepard]

A group beer float that she made.

[Lily Padman]

And if you aren't watching, you, you have to turn this on YouTube right now.

[Dax Shepard]

To see the group beer float.

[Lily Padman]

To see this. This incredible. She made it out of maple syrup and milk.

[Dax Shepard]

He has an entire miniature world.

[Lily Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, he's got his own computer and his Hogwarts book.

[Lily Padman]

It's incredible. Stanley, I want to be him.

[Dax Shepard]

I do, too. I said to her last night, when she was trying on his different outfits, I said, look, when I come back in my next life, I would love to be Groot and be under your care. Because he gets spoiled. Do you have any interesting stories?

[Lily Padman]

Because I do.

[Dax Shepard]

You do? Okay, me too. Let's hear yours.

[Lily Padman]

I have a few stories.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

I think I'd like to hold Groot for this story.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Great.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Come here, group. Come here, group. Come here. Put a Stanley over here in case he gets thirsty.

[Sam Rockwell]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Just have a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Let's put it here. So it's close.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Now.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like practice, Monica. This could be the tipping point for you.

[Lily Padman]

Why don't I just get a Groot?

[Dax Shepard]

You might want to just get a groot. Yeah. It seems to be very. God, he's smiling right at me. Yeah, this is preferred. I can't even believe I was fighting to hold him. Because it's equally as fun just to see him.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. He's so cute to look at.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's so happy.

[Lily Padman]

Happy. Anyway, so I have. I had a ethical dilemma.

[Dax Shepard]

Ooh, I like ethical dilemmas.

[Lily Padman]

So Callie and I went to a store as we do we shop.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And we went and got lunch after. And we were on 3rd street, which isn't that close. We're not there a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Lily Padman]

So I guess I'm not. I don't know why that. That's important to me. For some reason it's important. I was out of sorts.

[Dax Shepard]

I've been there non stop. Just sim. I would Never go to 3rd street in my real life.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I have to take Lincoln there several times during the weekend.

[Lily Padman]

Yes. I guess I'm just. I was a little out of sorts because I wasn't in my normal spot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And we have lunch and we're walking back to our cars and there is a unhoused woman.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my. This is impossible. Because my story also involves this. But go ahead.

[Lily Padman]

Head. Okay. There was an unhoused woman. I mean there was multiple unhoused people that we passed, but there was one specific woman who was on the opposite side of the street and. And just, you know, screaming nonsensical words and angry or.

[Dax Shepard]

Cuz there's many versions of the screaming. Sometimes it's really quite angry and sometimes it's just like they're talking to someone that can't hear them.

[Lily Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

So. So angry. Yes, angry. But kind of hard to tell. If you just glance at her, you probably. You might not know she was unhoused or dealing with a mental issue, which she clearly was both. So anyway, we cross the street and then all of a sudden she is walking towards us.

[Dax Shepard]

She locks on to you guys and.

[Lily Padman]

Is screaming at us. And that for people who don't live in LA and don't encounter a lot of unhoused people, that's not normally the case. So they are often like screaming or making noise or talking and they're. But they're in their own world.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And they're never normally. When they're in that state of mind, engaging with you. So this was very weird. She was, she was looking right at us and she was talking to us like we had become the enemy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Oh, wow.

[Lily Padman]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And how old was she? Roughly?

[Lily Padman]

I would say 40.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so roughly your age.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Maybe 42 or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so quite a bit older than you.

[Lily Padman]

A lot older. She is beelining towards us, screaming, screaming, you, you. And she's so mad. She is so mad. You are to fight.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. Whoa.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This is your nightmare.

[Lily Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And I, I, this is my nightmare mixed with. I'm pretty actually weirdly good in these situations of clicking into how to I, I don't freeze. I'm surviving this, you know? And she is, she is gunning at me. And Cali was like, okay, okay. Like she was starting, she was kind of engaging with her, like, okay, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Kelly's a little bit more like me. No, no, she's like you.

[Lily Padman]

I, I think she's like, neither, like she, she's not gonna confront that person.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

But she's also like one time in college, her and I were walking in the dark and there was like kind of some crazy guys like driving by and they turned around in their car and I just grabbed her and like we, I ran her into this like, hooded area.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Lily Padman]

So I take charge.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

She was just gonna stand there.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. So. So then she's coming at me and I left turn and sort of run into this laundromat.

[Dax Shepard]

Huh.

[Lily Padman]

And I assumed that Callie was either.

[Dax Shepard]

Ditched her, he left her on her own.

[Lily Padman]

I assumed she was either with me coming or because I was like diverting the attention a way that she could just run forward, run away. And then neither of those things happened. She didn't run. And, and then the woman as when I turned, she turned and went after Cali and was calling her the N word.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Screaming the just for the record is extremely white. Just throwing it out there.

[Lily Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And so I'm just in the laundromat feeling like I force majeured.

[Dax Shepard]

Force majeure is when an event that is biblical or mother N. No.

[Lily Padman]

You know the movie Force Majeure?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no, I don't.

[Lily Padman]

Yes, you do. It's the one with the avalanche. So. Yes, it's a movie, Swedish movie called Force Majeure where a family is on a mountain on a ski vacation, an avalanche, and the dad ditches the family.

[Dax Shepard]

Not only does he ditch, he kind of steps over one of the kids to run away.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, they don't die, right?

[Dax Shepard]

It doesn't hit Anyone.

[Lily Padman]

It doesn't hit anyone. So then they all have to get back together knowing that the dad just did that. Okay. So I feel like I force majeured.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. That makes a lot more sense.

[Lily Padman]

And I. I told her because then all of a sudden, she pokes her head over to the Laundromat window and, like, starts waving. And so I come out and I was like, did you go into somewhere? She was like, no. She just ran after me and started calling me the N word. And I was like, why'd you. And then I felt really guilty, and she told me not to feel guilty, but it really sh. It really. I haven't been able to say, stop thinking about. I don't know if Gru should have heard this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, no, it's a great story that he needs to know about.

[Lily Padman]

His Aunt Monica will never leave you.

[Dax Shepard]

He needs to hear these so that he'll know when it's time this kind of situation happens to him.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

He's already heard it played out. So he might decide a. That he likes that, and he'll already have a game plan or he might decide, oh, she regretted that. I'm going to make sure I always grab my friend.

[Lily Padman]

I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

What? You just. I'm just. I'm parroting exactly what you.

[Lily Padman]

I know. I'm just saying I feel guilty.

[Dax Shepard]

But she said, you don't need to.

[Lily Padman]

It was bad. It was bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Where did she end up? Like, how long were you in this laundromat?

[Lily Padman]

Like, not that long.

[Dax Shepard]

A minute or two. Yeah. Okay. So she just carried on. She didn't, like, get into.

[Lily Padman]

Also, I really felt like. I really felt, as soon as I entered the Laundromat, like I was in some sort of movie.

[Sam Rockwell]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Huh. Yeah. Because it was an extreme situation. It could only be happening in a movie.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. And then you end up in this laundromat where there's, like.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you're in Everywhere. Everywhere, all the time.

[Lily Padman]

And there's two people just sitting there, kind of, like, looking at me. Because I ran in, like, all, like.

[Dax Shepard]

Like a guy with a knife was chasing you.

[Lily Padman]

And I was like, that was crazy. There's a crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

You start talking to strangers, to them, and now you're her. Well, they all ran. They ran next door to the dry cleaner.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, it was. It was wild. But, yeah, she told me not to. I really think my fast thinking was, we gotta get out of this person's.

[Dax Shepard]

What's the closest she was to you?

[Lily Padman]

Really close.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, what's really close?

[Lily Padman]

One foot, 10ft, 25ft where your knee is.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so six feet.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If my head was here, my feet would touch her face, I think.

[Lily Padman]

Right. So she's charging. Charging. By the time she gets to your like, knee or calf is when I bolt to the left.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm outta here.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Fight or flight. And it was flight.

[Lily Padman]

It was flight. But it was also like, Callie, go.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, so now you're kind of resentful at Callie too. You feel maybe guilty and resentful.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, both.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure.

[Lily Padman]

Like, take care of yourself. Go into a location.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But you bounced. She stayed there. And then the gal obviously didn't close the gap entirely. And touch Callie, right? She didn't touch her.

[Lily Padman]

No, she didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So last night I'm going to say we. But really, Kristen. Kristen has. She wants things to be recycled in a particular way where they don't really just put it in a landfill. There's a service you can use in la, or you have a box and you put all this recycling. They actually take it to certified places that turn into park benches or whatever the heck the thing is. And so it's this box that's probably like 18 inches wide by 18 inches deep by 18 inches tall. Maybe 24 inches tall. So it's a good size metal box. Box. And it sits in front of our house with those items in it. And then they pick them up in these bags. So Kristen comes in and she goes, a homeless dude took the box and he's on the bus stop bench.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And I need to get it back. And I go, okay, yeah, I'll go get it. And she goes, well, but you can't go out there because there's a paparazzi out there.

[Lily Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm like, oh, my God. This is like. All of a sudden there's a lot going on.

[Lily Padman]

So yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm like, where's the paparazzi? And this is an age old debate. I get it. It's frustrating to live with me. Like, it's not sufficient. You can't just tell me I can't do something. I gotta, like, know exactly why I can't do it. This is annoying part of me. So now I kind of want to see the paparazzi so I'm not trying to look over the fence. And she's like, what do you do? I told you what's going on. Why do you not, you know? Yeah, that passes. Everything's groovy. And I have ordered food. So now when I get the food, now we're going on 30 minutes later, when I get the food, sure enough, there's a dude with a huge telephoto lens, like, you know, 20ft away, talking to the delivery guy and everything. And I'm like, oh, God. Because, yes, I cannot go get a box back from a homeless person.

[Lily Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

While a paparazzi's taking photos, God knows what people's assumption of that scenario would be. So suffice to say, a good hour and a half goes by before the paparazzi guy leaves in front of the house. So now I'm like, okay, I gotta go get that box. She really wants this box now. Side note, maybe Rob will understand this. You're not watching Mobland, right? God, I want you to watch it so bad. It's so good. But Tom Hardy's job is he works for a criminal family and he has to clean up all the shit that goes wrong. And he just says, yes, I'll go handle it. And he does this very man, a few words, and he handles everything. He fix everything.

[Lily Padman]

That's like, on you, the show.

[Dax Shepard]

That's like the TV show, you. Okay? So I go outside, look at the park bench. At the park bench, the bus stop, he's not there.

[Lily Padman]

Okay?

[Dax Shepard]

Like, fuck, I gotta get this box. So now I get in the car, and now I start driving around. And I'm driving around for a while, and at some point I'm like, oh. I'm like, Tom Hardy. Like, I gotta get this box. It's somewhere in the city, God knows. But I'm not coming home until I find this box.

[Lily Padman]

Okay?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm driving all the way down to the 101. I'm on Hollywood Boulevard. I'm on all the side streets.

[Lily Padman]

You're him, specifically.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm looking for the box. I've got to get the box back.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And the metal box, right? I'm driving around for a while. I'm like, I got my hazards on at times because there's a lot. There's. As you know, in la, there's a lot of people to look at, to see. Oh, do they have the box? All to say, I eventually come upon him, see a guy on another bus stop bench, and I look, oh, there's the box. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm Tom Hardy. I found the box. Like, I've been driving around for a long time, and I didn't give up.

[Lily Padman]

How long?

[Dax Shepard]

Found the box. I wanna exaggerate so bad.

[Lily Padman]

Do the real thing.

[Dax Shepard]

20 minutes.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. That is a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

I will say I Think a lot of people would've given up. So I went in the immediate area and was gone, you know, and then I went. So then I just go up to the guy and I go, hey, brother, that's my box. I gotta get back. And he's immediately nice. He's like, oh, sorry. And I go, yeah, no problem. I grabbed the box, and he's like, oh, I have my stuff. Can I get my stuff now? I'm speaking a lot more coherently than he was, but I'm like, yeah, of course. So, you know, it's still got all the bags of recycling stuff, and we go through that, and then there's weed, pipes, and all kinds of other. Just a bunch of stuff.

[Lily Padman]

What else you put in there?

[Dax Shepard]

A bunch of Ziploc bags with God knows what. And he got his stuff back, and then I gave him 20 bucks. And then I got the box and I came home and I felt like such a hero. Row.

[Lily Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I really did. I felt like I was Tom Hardy. My wife needed this box. It was somewhere in la. I found it, and I did it without. Completely. Without incident.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

And, you know, as I'm driving around, I'm anticipating all the many outcomes of this it could be. I say, hey, that's my box. He says, you. It's not my box. I'm coming home with the box. Trust me.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And I. What I loved about it is it was like. Like, I'm willing to participate in any option. I want the nice option. And it was the nice option. And it felt quite good.

[Lily Padman]

That is good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Cause he got 20, I got the box back, everyone was happy, and it was an adventure.

[Lily Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

I.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't that funny that both of us had incidents? Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, it is. It's unfortunate.

[Dax Shepard]

What's crazy is how completely normalized it is if you live here. Cause I'm thinking if I was still in Milford, Michigan, listening to the story, like, the notion that I would daily be running as someone screaming at the top of their lungs obscenities and racial slurs, which is just, like, standard business.

[Lily Padman]

It is, it is. I know. I was driving by the gas station the other day, and there was a woman there just standing, you know, just standing, talking to herself. And I barely know. You know, I barely noticed. And then I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We are. We. We are so desensitized to. You have to. It's not our. It's not like a fault of ours.

[Dax Shepard]

It would kill you otherwise.

[Lily Padman]

Yes, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You really don't have a choice. You're kind of like.

[Lily Padman]

Or you have to move. Like you either. Yeah. It's really. But I saw a advanced screening last night of Edington, which is a upcoming movie, a premier to can. It has a lot of really cool people in it, all of whom I would love to have on the show. It is quite dark, but funny.

[Dax Shepard]

What's it about?

[Lily Padman]

So it takes place during COVID in New Mexico.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

And things. That's all I can kind of say. Like it's a lot of things ensue.

[Dax Shepard]

And oh, wild poster. It's got a bunch of American buffalo, bison running off the side of a steep cliff and they're in various states of tumbling to their death.

[Lily Padman]

It pokes fun at, I would say everyone during that time. I mean, 2020. It starts in May 2020. And obviously a lot is happening at the time. The pandemic, Black lives Matter. The movie starts with a unhoused person kind of on this rant.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Lily Padman]

And that's what made me think of it. But it's very thought provoking and funny. Like we all, everyone across the board went a bit crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, absolutely.

[Lily Padman]

And both sides, you get to see that. And it's. It, it's. It's. It's good. I think a lot of people are going to be talking about it when it comes out, so. So shout out to Eddington and Joaquin Phoenix, Pedro Pascal and Emma Stone, please come on this show.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, three of the ten best actors alive right there.

[Lily Padman]

I know. Walk, Walking.

[Dax Shepard]

Phoenix is a phenom.

[Lily Padman]

Is such a special actor.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, absolutely.

[Lily Padman]

He's in that Heath category.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And it's so compelling.

[Dax Shepard]

He's just so compelling in all the ways.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. This, this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The tenderness.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I've hung with him a few times and I. I am completely charmed by him and think he's so wonderful. How's it going, Groot? He's at work with take your grandson to work day.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. Do you need to hold him again?

[Dax Shepard]

No. I love looking at his little smile. Have you seen Sinner?

[Lily Padman]

Not yet.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, man. I saw it and I immediately, of course, wanted to talk to Joy about it and I just hadn't. I had been busy. And then this morning after I dropped Delta, I called her and we had like a 45 minute conversation about it.

[Lily Padman]

What did she have to say? Is there anything you can say? People haven't seen it.

[Dax Shepard]

It just led to this incredible conversation between us about blackness, whiteness, masculinity, socioeconomic stuff, identity, how complex it all is. And how special the resilience of that group of people is. And what has been the product of black people. Yeah, black people. The product has been the best art that this country has created.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Is out of that heartache and art, athletics, everything. Yeah. Well, I mean, one aspect of it is there's also some Irish stuff happening in it. And Joy was saying when she first saw. She's like, why is there an Irish jig in this movie? And I was like. And I haven't read anything about. She's read a ton about it. One of her best friends is in it, so.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, cool.

[Dax Shepard]

She had gone to an early screening and I said, well, what did the things you read say? Because I immediately went like, yeah, that's true of the Irish too. Like, they were discarded by the English. And what came out of that is like this incredible music, the dancing, all this stuff. And it's just such a weird phenomena that out of that suffering can come some of the greatest releases through. Through artistic expression. This is quite beautiful. And yeah, the thing I think is so crazy. If you're the aliens looking at us from above and you understand genetics and alleles and genes and you're like, let me get this straight. There's like a million genes. Two of them dictate your skin color. And this whole artifice is. Is based off of maybe the most minute bit of your genetics imaginable. Like, it's just insane how strong and permanent the thing is when it's such an insignificant piece of human. I don't know.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's just a wonderful conversation. I just have so much gratitude to have her in my life, to have very in depth than honest conversations about that stuff. Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Great fucking movie.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. I wanted to bring up that I think the sim is really, really on another level right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Or I'm really in sync with it, or something is going on. Because I've had so many weird sim moments lately. Last night, after I got back from the movie, I was thinking about, did.

[Dax Shepard]

The movie invite you to that?

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, cool.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. So Pedro Pascal's also in a movie coming out soon called the Materialist, which I really, really, really want to see because it's the Director of Past Lives, which is one of my favorite movies I've seen in the past decade, I think. I love that movie. Oh, my God. With Greta Lee. It's so. It's so good. It's so small. Like, it's a story of love and loss and the complexity of all those things and relationships, like how complicated they are. And anyway, it's a beautiful movie and same director. And I'm so. I'm really excited to see that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And I was thinking about that and seeing it and then I was like, it reminds me. Past lives. Reminds me of this other movie I saw on an airplane. And I couldn't. I was like, what is that movie? And it was like foreign, but I couldn't remember. And then I started listening to this random fashion podcast.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

That like minutes later.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Lily Padman]

The movie comes up.

[Dax Shepard]

That movie that you were trying to think of. The name of the foreign film.

[Lily Padman]

Yes. The word Worst person on Earth or the.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, worst person in the world.

[Lily Padman]

Worst person in the world. It's so good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What's it about?

[Lily Padman]

It's a Norwegian woman and like she falls in love, but then there's like a cheating. I mean it's just like a comedy romance, but deeper.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

And also a really beautiful story. It's an incredible movie, but it. I was. I couldn't remember. And then they said it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God.

[Lily Padman]

That. Within like 10 minutes of all the movies in the whole world. That's weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, that is really weird.

[Lily Padman]

And then another sim. We have upcoming guest. Great episode. I was editing and she's from. No, she brings up Lowell, Massachusetts.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

And when I was editing it, you know, I get to that part of Lowell, Massachusetts and my job jaw dropped because just hours before I was on Instagram and what pops up? This clip. We're not in Boston, we're in Lowell, Massachusetts or Massachusetts. I cannot ever say Massachusetts, Massachusetts, Massachusetts. I don't know, whatever. So that was an.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it random people or is it.

[Lily Padman]

No, that's Jessica Simpson. That's from Newlyweds.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God.

[Lily Padman]

And it was a bit like she couldn't remember that show. Like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she said things wrong.

[Lily Padman]

She said things wrong. She did things wrong. She couldn't do the laundry. You know, whatever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that was the premise.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And oh yeah. What was the tuna.

[Lily Padman]

Chicken of the sea or tuna. And she didn't know if it was tuna.

[Dax Shepard]

If there was chicken in the sea. I was on that show.

[Lily Padman]

You were?

[Dax Shepard]

I was. Because it was when I was over there shooting that video. And then somehow I was just like, I want to say I went in the hot tub and maybe got drunk or something.

[Lily Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

They were shooting the show. And then I think I was just.

[Lily Padman]

I think, wow, that's a big deal. That was a big show. I loved it. Anyway, that popped up on my Instagram. She's saying Lowell, Massachusetts don't act like this isn't nuts.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't brush this off. The last thing I'll add before we do facts is if, in case you're curious why I have this crazy haircut cut.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's because. Have you seen the Brad Pitt GQ ad article?

[Lily Padman]

I did.

[Dax Shepard]

See? Photo shoot. You did or didn't?

[Lily Padman]

I did.

[Dax Shepard]

And what did you think?

[Lily Padman]

Hot as hell.

[Dax Shepard]

God damn it.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

It's almost like the older he looks, the hotter he is. He's got, like, dirt on his face.

[Lily Padman]

He looks so good.

[Dax Shepard]

He's got a shaved head. He's got, like, a white.

[Lily Padman]

Not every one of his cohorts is aging the way he is. I. I'll say that without disparaging anyone in particular. Look.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what is weird, though? This has been tripping me out. As he gets older, he does a little bit look like my dad, which is crazy. I think primarily because my dad had really full, big lips and just a similar face. Yeah. I just like. Oh, my God. Like, my.

[Lily Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

My dad was almost Brad Pitt.

[Lily Padman]

That's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Just needs to go a few degrees one way or the other.

[Lily Padman]

Really cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But him riding the motorcycle on the beach, and his son, he's got the goggles and his face is all dirty. Fuck.

[Lily Padman]

He's a stud.

[Dax Shepard]

He's just laying that one shot of him laying like. He's just taking a breather. Thinking. Laying down on his back in a white tee.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So anyways, I saw that, and I lost my shit.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't even. I know. You know what it does to me, but it's so powerful. It gets me. So, like.

[Lily Padman]

I love that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And so I'm like, I. I've had a shaved head. I look terrible with a shaved head, but I want now a shaved head.

[Lily Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

In a gray beard.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In whatever motorcycle is riding. The whole package. I basically was like, what's the closest thing I can do to a shaved head?

[Lily Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And I landed on this Mohawk.

[Lily Padman]

Mohawk for the listeners. Dax has a mohawk. It looks great. It's not a huge.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't hate it?

[Lily Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Lily Padman]

It's not a huge Mohawk. It's like.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, it's conservative.

[Lily Padman]

It's a mini hawk.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's like, maybe two inches long.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. It's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

And I've really tried to think about what's going on. People love superheroes. Right. They love superheroes for all these many reasons. And I really think, like, for me, he's as close to a real version of that for me, he's kind of like a superhero to me. And so when I see him doing his superhero thing, I just. Yeah. I don't know.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The titillation is like, wow, how could he have. Now this facet as well. It's just like it never ends. I don't get sick of it. It's always a new look. There's always. He's in a dress at one point somewhere. I'm like, fuck, that's a rad dress.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I just think, like, the endless. He remains novel at all times, and he is aging, so it's like the story keeps on evolving.

[Lily Padman]

He's great.

[Dax Shepard]

I do think, though, I try to think about, like, as much as I would love to look like him and stuff, I also imagine it's a burden.

[Lily Padman]

For sure.

[Dax Shepard]

It has to be a major burden. Like, I don't know how the outside thing wouldn't infect the internal identity.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You just have to truly be a superhero at that point for that. Not to. Just that to not be like, some kind of.

[Lily Padman]

Even superheroes have Kryptonite night.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, one does. Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

They all have. They all have a f. They all have a fatal flaw.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they do. Any who. Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's my hairdo.

[Lily Padman]

It's your hairdo.

[Dax Shepard]

That's my hairdo.

[Lily Padman]

It's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

It's been a pleasure having you.

[Lily Padman]

Thanks for coming.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Do you want to stick around for facts, Groot? Yeah. Oh, my God. His smile just got bigger. It really did.

[Lily Padman]

If you guys aren't watching this fact check, you just must.

[Dax Shepard]

If your heart can handle it.

[Lily Padman]

If it can handle it.

[Dax Shepard]

Warning.

[Lily Padman]

All right. Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by shipstation. We love to talk about tech and AI advancements on the show. And if you're still operating your shipping and fulfillment processes with last year's technology. Have we got an ad for you. It's shipstation, baby. Lead your business into the future with smart features and automations that boost efficiency and save you time. Seamlessly automate repetitive tasks so you can work smarter, not harder. And you can seamlessly integrate with services and selling channels you already use and manage orders on one easy dashboard. We just shipped all of our last round of merch with Shipstation, and it made Carly's luck life a breeze. Over 130,000 companies have grown their e commerce business with ShipStation. And 98% of companies that stick with Shipstation for a year become customers for life. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping Software that delivers. Switch to ShipStation today. Go to ShipStation.com and use code DAX to sign up for your free trial. That's shipstation.com. code Dax.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. Some fat.

[Dax Shepard]

I really invited myself.

[Lily Padman]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe the most I've ever done.

[Lily Padman]

Did you just get in the car?

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, I'd love to come to this with you. The screening of this movie, that's just for cast members that I'll be at.

[Sam Rockwell]

He did invite.

[Dax Shepard]

He did invite you though.

[Lily Padman]

No, it was. I was. He was like, you guys want to come?

[Dax Shepard]

As a. Like no one would want to come.

[Lily Padman]

As a joke.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. This is clearly a joke. Don't say yes. I'm not really inviting you. Would you like to come?

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I said, absolutely, I'd love to come.

[Lily Padman]

You, man.

[Dax Shepard]

And then right before the movie stars, like the directors all stand up, there's three of them and they're going to tell everyone what they're about to see. And I go, I just, just really quick. If I was cut out, I would like to know before the movie, then find out after.

[Lily Padman]

Do people laugh?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it worked. But it was a big swing.

[Lily Padman]

That's a swing. Because like they can call out that.

[Dax Shepard]

I had no business being at this.

[Lily Padman]

I know, but maybe people would think, oh yeah, was he supposed to be in it? Because he's not. This is horrible.

[Dax Shepard]

I had a little bit of a fear that they would be like, oh my God. I didn't. I didn't even know he was in it. They didn't even announce it that he was in it. And fuck, he didn't make the cut. And he's here to watch. Yeah. I really was nervous. Some people would think that.

[Lily Padman]

I admire you. You take a lot of swings that most people wouldn't. And look, most of them work out.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, at least above 50%. Enough to encourage me to keep doing it.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

My family relishes when I miss. And I get it. I get it. It must be so fun when I come up short cuz they know I'm taking all these swings.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, that's how I feel. But then it feels bad. It's like schadenfreud. I actually don't like that feeling.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't want me to fail. But it's also funny to watch.

[Lily Padman]

It's like, look, I. Well, it feels more like the bill's going to come. Like exactly. Like, just like that's the way life is.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't just get out of this. Yeah. Justice has been served in A way. Justice.

[Lily Padman]

Justice. My favorite thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But that one worked. That one worked. Good.

[Lily Padman]

Fun. Great. I mean, ding, ding, ding. You took a big swing at Stanley Tucci's house by reading the book, which I brought up on this episode, and.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't even really remember that part.

[Lily Padman]

I know. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I was doing an Italian accent. Yeah. My mama, my papa.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. Anyway, anywho. All right, Sam. Well, Sam. Sam's is Sam. I am.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

He's the king we talked about for a second. Transference in therapy. Transference refers to a patient's unconscious redirection of feelings and desires about past significant figures in their life onto their therapist. So this means the client may unconsciously project their emotions and expectations from previous relationships onto the therapeutics therapist. For example, a client might experience love, anger, or dependence towards a therapist, similar to how they felt towards a parent or other important figures in their past.

[Dax Shepard]

So do you have this? Do you experience this?

[Lily Padman]

I don't think so, but I. I do think I did it recently. And I. I knew it. I was like, oh, my God, I'm doing this thing to her. I mean, it was a complicated scenario, which I've told you. I've now told you about separately or on an upcoming episode. People will hear about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Um, there was a complicated scenario happening, and I was having a feeling about her that I have about other people.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And I knew then I was like, oh, I'm just doing this to her. But then what was interesting is then when her and I talked about it, she was like, yeah, I shouldn't have done. Like, I didn't say you shouldn't have done that. I was like, okay, so this has been going on, and I'm realizing this. And she was like, I should not have done done that. So that it was interesting. Ah, yeah. Anyway, I just love my therapist so much. So much. And when I was watching the new season of Couples Therapy, I was like, she really has Orna vibes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. That's a huge compliment.

[Lily Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. I used to tell my therapist about how great Orna was. How could that be fun to hear?

[Lily Padman]

I know. No one wants to hear that.

[Dax Shepard]

Or Phil Stutz. When we were obsessed with Phil, I would share with.

[Lily Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

My therapist how much I like Phil Stutz.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I had to be honest.

[Lily Padman]

That's.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe I didn't.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, yes. Yes, you do. You do in therapy. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But if someone's just going on and on with you about how much they love a certain podcast that's not yours, you Know they might at some point like reign it in.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. It's like have some awareness.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He has some social awareness.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Now I don't if I've done it, I've not been conscious of it.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think I have like, I don't think that's something I've like role played or.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. It's all subconscious.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

It's not like.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think sometimes it's explicit. Right. Like have a conversation with me. What would you say to your dad? So you're almost like inviting yourself to take on dad role.

[Lily Padman]

This is like the pattern you get in that's negative. That you're there to figure out that person. The therapist becomes that person.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. They need to fill that role.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. It's pretty.

[Dax Shepard]

We're embarrassing. Right.

[Lily Padman]

But we're trying to be better. That. That's the point of it and that's the endearing part. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. So I looked up the Tanzania safari animals versus the Kruger ones.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

What are you finding?

[Lily Padman]

Tanzania. I'm seeing wild beast. Giraffe, hippopotamus, cheetah, zebra, leopard, lion. Brian. Flamingos, American. I mean, African American. Bald eagle, African buffalo. Oh boy. There's really a lot of them. So I'm not going to keep going. Now as far as Kruger, what is.

[Dax Shepard]

Cute is you said wild beast.

[Lily Padman]

That's wildebeest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Someone will say in the comments I want to save them the wild. Here's what they've got in Tanzania. Wild beasts.

[Lily Padman]

I mean, that's cool. Wildebeest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Oops.

[Dax Shepard]

The density. I don't want to on anyone else's African safari, but just as a fact, the density of animals on the Scoretti Reserve is astronomically higher than almost everywhere else other than Botswana.

[Lily Padman]

That's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. Now in Kruger, there. Kruger national park, famous leopard, African buffalo.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, wild beast.

[Lily Padman]

Wildebeest, cheetah, African wild dog, common warthog. Now I'm like really nervous. I'm gonna read something wrong. Impala, vervet monkey, blue wildebeest. Yeah. Some other others I'm not seeing like lion.

[Dax Shepard]

So they have them there in Kruger, I think that's where famously one of those lions got into the bus window. Really? Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

That's.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

That makes me really not gonna go.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have interest in going on a safari or. It's not huge for you.

[Lily Padman]

It's not on the top of my list.

[Dax Shepard]

You're not like an animal person.

[Lily Padman]

Percent Brand new information. It might be. Remember I'm the one that told you that seahorse I didn't know what a seahorse was because Indians.

[Dax Shepard]

Your dad didn't.

[Lily Padman]

Don't know that much about animals.

[Dax Shepard]

They don't. With seahorses, I think.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. They mainly have Bengal tigers.

[Dax Shepard]

Tigers and elephants.

[Lily Padman]

Exactly. They. With elephants only.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. So I was googling, do koalas have chlamydia? If you just type in do koalas, it auto fills.

[Dax Shepard]

John Oliver famously. Do you remember this? He had a long running bit and it had to do with somehow Russell Crowe. It involved Russell Crowe.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And so Russell Crowe, to get back at him, bought a plaque for him at the chlamydia ward for the. The. Oh, like the John Oliver koala chlamydia lab. You know, like it was a nominal.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Donation required to have his name permanently associated with quality koala chlamydia.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. It is a significant threat to the koala populations in Australia, causing blindness, infertility, and even death. Experts estimate that between 20% and 90% of koalas are infected with. Also that's.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a huge delta there.

[Lily Padman]

Yes. I don't love that.

[Dax Shepard]

That's like saying somewhere between none and all.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. But it's probably because because there's such stigma, the koalas aren't self reporting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Probably hard to get them part of it.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Between 20 and 90%. That is literally like saying it's between none and all.

[Lily Padman]

I think they mean in certain location, like certain populations of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Like some areas they. They have. Most have it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to be in the group with 90%.

[Lily Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

That means they were a lot. That's evidence of party. Being a party animal.

[Lily Padman]

Koalas are party animals.

[Dax Shepard]

They are the ultimate, as we now found out.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, I guess like they're bed hopping. I guess. I'm not a koala. It's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a chinchilla.

[Lily Padman]

We should look up the chlamydia rate of chinchillas.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet it's low.

[Lily Padman]

They're mostly because no one wants to have sex with.

[Dax Shepard]

No, because they're. They've taken themselves out of the population and they.

[Lily Padman]

They are like goo.

[Dax Shepard]

They don't have ribs, I think, but maybe they do. They have floating ribs.

[Lily Padman]

That's why I am definitely not a chinchilla. I have pretty prominent ribs.

[Dax Shepard]

Pronounced ribs. Strong ribs to house those eggs.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. Was Nixon elected November 5, 1968. Yeah. His birthday.

[Dax Shepard]

Good job's birthday.

[Lily Padman]

Really cool. I thought that this episode like, like if you're in acting school or in theater program. Like I was. I just thought like oh, if I was in my high school theater right now or in my college theater, I would love to listen to this because he talked about Meisner. He talked about some direction from Philip Seymour Hoffman in a play that was very interesting. And he mentioned Eric Boian, like, very, very quickly. And he's a huge playwright. Like when he. He mentioned him as he was in a scene with him, and I was like, oh, the guy who wrote Suburbia. Like, he's a very big playwright. And I would have been very excited if I was really in that moment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

I thought, oh, you wouldn't get it if you weren't a theater head.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I didn't get that.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. So if you know anyone in a theater program, send this episode their way.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, what's really funny is like, in general, as people who listen to the show would know. I don't. Don't. I'm not generally interested in how someone acts.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

There's just a handful of people and it's really dictated by do I think they're doing something that's absolutely extraordinary within the discipline. And I think he's one of the very few people I am want to know how they do what they do or if they even know.

[Lily Padman]

I agree. Yeah. It would be like if we had Christian Bale on. We're asking him about acting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to know how he breaks this down and gets to where he gets.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. Speaking of both of them, I was trying to find the clip of. I bet you did, you rascal.

[Dax Shepard]

Hard to find.

[Lily Padman]

Which was in Vice.

[Dax Shepard]

Best line of the movie.

[Lily Padman]

Best line. Sam plays Bush and Christian Bale and I couldn't find it.

[Dax Shepard]

Ah, bummer.

[Lily Padman]

No, it's a great line. But also I was watching it.

[Dax Shepard]

It could be one of these lines where it's not even in the movie.

[Lily Padman]

No, it is.

[Dax Shepard]

You know how, like, you've just been saying it so long, you find out, oh, my God, it's not even what he said.

[Lily Padman]

Or it's a different movie. Movie or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Anyway, they are both. I was just watching like a three minute clip because I thought that's where it was. And they're both so good and so undetectable. The real person. It's wild.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Some people are just born to do certain things.

[Dax Shepard]

He in particular, his gift is being a chameleon. Um, I remember watching Vice and like, I thought about it for the first nine seconds he was on screen and then I never thought about it again. And it really was just Chaney.

[Lily Padman]

He's. Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He can really do that.

[Lily Padman]

Like, what if he had never found acting?

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe a drug addict.

[Lily Padman]

Oh, we'll ask next time if we ever get him on. Okay. Meisner. Just really quick. We didn't get too deep in this, but I do think it's worth. There's all these activities and all these rules and all these things. We did a lot of Meisner in school, and I was keeping it to myself, obviously. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't want to make me feel insecure for my lack of training.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. But the main thing you think of when you think of Meisner is this repetition exercise, which is like two people are in a room and I observe something. You're wearing a white shirt. Then you'll say, I'm wearing a white shirt. I say, you're wearing a white shirt. I'm wearing a white shirt. And you keep going back and forth until you notice something, like, naturally changes. And you say that, and then it's. And you keep going back and forth.

[Dax Shepard]

But you're obligated to not steer it in any direction.

[Lily Padman]

Exactly. It's really hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to do. I mean, I don't want to make everyone else sit through, but I want to do it.

[Lily Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, you're wearing a black shirt.

[Lily Padman]

I don't want to do.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Lily Padman]

Okay. The original Gong show that was on NBC from 1976 to 1980. Four years.

[Dax Shepard]

Again. Four years. All these things I thought were on for 12 years. I thought Dukes of Hazard was on for like, 10 seasons.

[Lily Padman]

I know. That's me with a lot of these.

[Dax Shepard]

Shows were like, average hits. Yeah, I know.

[Lily Padman]

Now Kate and Ashley. Oh, it was on for eight seasons. Never mind. Oh, wait, no. They might be counting later ones.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I think that one was on.

[Lily Padman]

Was it?

[Dax Shepard]

That one really ran, didn't it?

[Lily Padman]

I mean, I thought. But then. Oh, my God. Speaking of cool stuff. Successful.

[Dax Shepard]

Full House. We were talking about Full House, and.

[Lily Padman]

That'S cool stuff to me.

[Sam Rockwell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Cool stuff.

[Lily Padman]

Actually, no. Speaking of successful things. Speaking of Mary Kaden, Ash, Ashley, the Row.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Estimated billion dollar company valued. Valued at a billion dollars.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

I just read today that Hailey Bieber's makeup company, Rhode, which is very good, I, like a lot of their products, was bought for a billion dollars today.

[Dax Shepard]

I was just somewhere she was at, and I didn't talk to her, and now I wish I did so I could ask her about her company.

[Lily Padman]

I'm kind of obsessed with her.

[Dax Shepard]

You are.

[Lily Padman]

She's really a powerhouse business person who's been like, you know, looked at as Justin Bieber's wife. Who not only that, like, stole him from Selena Gomez. Like, pegged in this story. That's the story. So she's been villainized a ton.

[Dax Shepard]

Were they together? They were. Okay. And she's also someone's daughter.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah, She's Stephen Baldwin.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So she has a lot of people that could overshadow her.

[Lily Padman]

And she's like, no, I think it's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm gonna get a billion dollars. She did it me for money.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. And we will ask her for some.

[Dax Shepard]

We will ask her for some.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. Anyway, I just think it's cool when women make a billion dollars.

[Dax Shepard]

Me, too. I love it.

[Lily Padman]

I just love it. All right, well. Oh, oh, oh. One thing that I wrote down when he talked about Philip Seymour Hoffman and he said, you know, he was always the sober guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Like, that was, like, who he was to them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

So it really caught them off guard, and that made me feel really sad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And I understood it. It's like sometimes that becomes your identity. So much so that, I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

It is all interesting. He's very legendary in the AA world, Philip.

[Lily Padman]

In what way?

[Dax Shepard]

He just was like, people would hear him speak, and he could speak in a way that was very eloquent. Yeah. And whatever his skills were as a humanist to be an actor, I think also was him sharing. I just have ran into lots of people who had seen him share over the years. He's such a special dude. And so. So, yeah, that was one of the bigger ones that shook the community.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. It's so sad. It really.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Like, it's one thing when this sounds. It's all horrible. It's always so sad. But when, you know, someone is struggling.

[Dax Shepard]

That they had it licked at one point. Is that what you mean?

[Lily Padman]

Well, I mean, when, you know, when, you know, someone's like a. Constantly back and forth and it's like a constant struggle when some. When it ultimately gets them. It's so sad. But you're not, like, you're not shocked. Fuck. This doesn't work. You know? But when it's someone like this, where he's the sober guy, he's done it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

And then it still gets.

[Dax Shepard]

Never too late.

[Lily Padman]

Exactly. It makes me really scared.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Scared is right. Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Sad and scared.

[Dax Shepard]

Sad and scared.

[Lily Padman]

Can you just be careful?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll. I'll. I'll try not to shoot dope. Yeah.

[Lily Padman]

Well, any of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. But there is. There is a sliding scale of lethality, for sure.

[Lily Padman]

Yeah. But that scale gets away from everyone fast.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Love you. Love Sam Rockwell. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey this.

[D]

Is Nick and this is Jack. We're best friends, ex finance guys and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, the Best Idea yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion dollar fashion company went viral thanks to a rhinestone cover tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident? It started as a joke. Last one which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks they actually ended up acquiring it? Spoiler. The Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino, Join us every week to learn how your favorite things got made. Follow the Best Idea yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor.