Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: Episode Summary featuring Scott Payne (Retired Undercover FBI Agent)
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Introduction
In the milestone 900th episode of "Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard," hosts Dax Shepard and Monica Padman engage in a profound and gripping conversation with Scott Payne, a retired undercover FBI special agent. This episode delves deep into Scott's extensive career in law enforcement, his undercover operations within notorious biker gangs, and his experiences infiltrating extremist white supremacist groups. Through candid discussions, Scott shares harrowing stories, critical insights, and reflections on combating domestic terrorism and extremism.
Scott Payne’s Law Enforcement Journey
Early Career and Education
Scott Payne's path to becoming one of the most renowned undercover FBI agents began early. Raised in Greenville, South Carolina, Scott pursued a degree in Criminal Justice with a minor in Psychology. Despite academic excellence—graduating from college with a 3.8 GPA and making the dean's list while playing NCAA football—Scott faced racial barriers in his hometown.
Quote:
"[...] I came out of college with a 3.8 average. My last two years on the dean's list playing NCAA football. But in South Carolina at that time, for whatever reason, four different departments told me I did really, really well. They would love to have me, but they weren't hiring black guys."
(Timestamp: 14:08)
Police Work and Transition to FBI
Scott's perseverance led him to the Greenville County Sheriff's Office, where he served as a uniform patrol officer for three years before advancing to vice and narcotics investigator roles. His dedication and skill set eventually opened the door to the FBI, where he attended Quantico and was assigned to high-stakes cases early in his tenure, including during the tumultuous period surrounding 9/11.
Undercover Operations with Biker Gangs
Infiltrating the Outlaws Motorcycle Club
One of Scott’s most significant undercover assignments was infiltrating the Outlaws Motorcycle Club, one of the "Big Four" biker gangs in the United States, alongside the Hells Angels, Bandidos, and Pagans.
Quote:
"Bikers are the closest relationship I built with a possible target on any case I've ever done."
(Timestamp: 28:24)
Gaining Trust and Conducting Operations
Scott meticulously cultivated his cover as a high-ranking member involved in illicit activities such as carjacking and drug trafficking. His approach involved performing seemingly legitimate tasks to earn the trust of the Outlaws, allowing him to gather crucial evidence and execute successful takedowns.
Notable Incident: The Goat Sacrifice
One of the most intense moments Scott recounts is an attempt by the Outlaws to sacrifice a goat during a ritualistic ceremony. Wired to stealthily record the operation, Scott describes the fear and adrenaline he experienced when the crew attempted to carry out the sacrifice, only to realize the breach in his cover.
Quote:
"I was holding the goat's head, giving the sig how, holding the base flag. [...] It was a verbal sigh. Yeah. Because my insides are saying, it's over. He misses it."
(Timestamp: 47:07)
Despite the high tension, Scott managed to maintain his composure, allowing law enforcement to intervene effectively and resulting in the dismantling of the gang with multiple arrests.
Infiltrating White Supremacist and Accelerationist Groups
Expanding Mission to Combat Extremism
Beyond biker gangs, Scott expanded his undercover efforts to infiltrate neo-Nazi and accelerationist groups, which advocate for societal collapse to accelerate white supremacist agendas.
Quote:
"Accelerationism goes like this. They do not believe that there is a political solution to save the white race. They believe that society is going to collapse on its own or from man-made events. And they want to speed that up through guerrilla warfare tactics."
(Timestamp: 56:10)
Challenging Ideologies and Risking Personal Safety
Scott describes the intense indoctrination sessions where extremist ideologies were deeply ingrained, including gruesome rituals and violent plans intended to incite racial wars. His ability to blend in and extract actionable intelligence was pivotal in preventing potential mass atrocities.
Notable Encounter: Ritualistic Violence
During a critical operation, Scott narrates an encounter where the group attempted to sacrifice a goat as part of their twisted rituals. The event was not only a test of his undercover persona but also a moment that underscored the brutality and fanaticism of these groups.
Quote:
"We were all still in the circle. [...] It's a verbal sigh. Yeah. Because my insides are saying, it's over. He misses it."
(Timestamp: 47:07)
Reflections on Undercover Work and Personal Impact
Emotional and Psychological Toll
Scott openly discusses the emotional challenges of undercover work, including the moral dilemmas of building relationships with targets and the psychological strain of maintaining his cover in life-threatening situations.
Quote:
"You need to be able to figure out how you can rationalize that in your mind and it not have an adverse impact on your psyche. And it's not always easy."
(Timestamp: 29:38)
Balancing Personal Life and Career
Despite the dangers, Scott emphasizes the importance of maintaining personal connections and support systems, such as his family and mentoring relationships within the FBI, which provided him resilience and perspective throughout his career.
Books and Media Contributions
"Code Name Pal Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America's Nazis"
Scott Payne co-authored his memoir with Michelle Shepard, detailing his undercover missions and providing an insider's look into the strategies and sacrifices involved in combating domestic extremism.
Podcast Feature: "White Hot Hate"
Scott also appeared on the Canadian broadcast podcast "White Hot Hate," particularly in its second season titled "Pal Horse," where he further elaborates on his experiences and the intricacies of undercover investigations.
Concluding Insights
Scott Payne's testimony offers a rare and unfiltered glimpse into the perilous world of undercover law enforcement. His relentless pursuit of justice against some of the most dangerous and ideologically driven groups in America highlights the complexities and necessities of such operations. Through his stories, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the human and ethical dimensions of fighting against extremism and preserving societal safety.
Final Quote:
"You have to stay vigilant. You hope that people out there conceal their intentions, but if you see something, say something."
(Timestamp: 85:28)
For those interested in a detailed exploration of undercover operations and the battle against domestic terrorism, Scott Payne's experiences provide invaluable insights and underscore the importance of unwavering dedication in law enforcement.