Shaquille O'Neal

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Featuring Shaquille O'Neal

Podcast Information

• Title: Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
• Host: Dax Shepard
• Guest: Shaquille O'Neal
• Release Date: August 11, 2025

Overview In this highly engaging and candid episode of Armchair Expert, Dax Shepard sits down with NBA legend Shaquille O'Neal to delve deep into Shaq's personal and professional life. The conversation navigates through Shaq's early struggles, illustrious basketball career, business ventures, commitment to education, and his perspectives on fame and personal growth. The dialogue is enriched with notable anecdotes, heartfelt reflections, and insightful quotes, providing listeners with an intimate portrait of one of basketball's most iconic figures.

---

1. Introduction and Early Interactions

The episode begins with Dax Shepard and co-host Monica Padman expressing excitement about hosting Shaquille O'Neal. They reminisce about past encounters and Shaq's charismatic presence.

• Dax Shepard [04:29]: "Shaquille O'Neal, four-time NBA champion, first-round draft pick, multiple MVPs."

2. Work Ethic and Fear of Retirement

Shaq discusses his relentless work ethic and the fear of retirement looming over his career. He emphasizes the importance of staying active and productive.

• Shaquille O'Neal [06:16]: "I always say, as motivational, I'm 53 in seven summers. Will I still be shooting 20, 30 commercials in a row? Who knows?"

3. Relationships and Personal Development

The conversation shifts to Shaq's personal relationships, particularly his marriage and fatherhood. He reflects on learning the importance of spending quality time with loved ones.

• Shaquille O'Neal [11:10]: "I didn't know that sitting with your wife, watching TV is not spending quality time with her. I never knew that."

4. Overcoming Childhood Challenges

Shaq opens up about his childhood, dealing with bullying due to his height, and the contrasting approaches of his parents in managing his behavior.

• Shaquille O'Neal [09:38]: "When you’re taught by army drill sergeant never to rest on your laurels, never to be satisfied."

5. Handling Criticism and Bullying

Shaq shares his strategies for dealing with criticism and cyberbullying, emphasizing the importance of blocking negativity and focusing on constructive feedback.

• Shaquille O'Neal [17:07]: "I block people every day. It's a phenomenon. And I enjoy going into schools, talking to children about that."

6. Mental Health and Addiction

The discussion delves into Shaq's use of painkillers during his NBA career. He distinguishes between physical pain management and mental addiction, highlighting his functional approach.

• Shaquille O'Neal [32:15]: "It's like, no, but for 19 years. But in the summer, I wouldn't take it."

• Dax Shepard [30:39]: "For me, addiction is... I'm preoccupied by it. I think about it."

7. Mentorship and Education Ventures: Campus Initiative

Shaq elaborates on his passion for education and the creation of Campus, a venture aimed at making college accessible and debt-free for students. He shares his journey from basketball to academia.

• Shaquille O'Neal [57:36]: "This is when Jeff Bezos, years before he created Amazon, he said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives."

8. Business Ventures and Philanthropy

Shaq discusses his diverse business portfolio, including investments in sustainable ventures like Wild Planet and Squarespace. He underscores his commitment to giving back through scholarships and mentorship programs.

• Shaquille O'Neal [65:43]: "When I meet with the companies, I know they know me as a basketball player, so this is what I tell them. I'm the center, you're the point guard, you're the forward. And we're here to win championships."

9. Fame, Privacy, and Personal Life

Navigating fame has its challenges. Shaq reflects on the lack of privacy and the constant public scrutiny, advocating for authentic living despite the pressures.

• Shaquille O'Neal [55:47]: "Whenever I'm saying or doing. That's who I am. In real life, we have no privacy."

10. Relationship with Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Shaq's dynamic with coach Phil Jackson and teammate Kobe Bryant. He candidly discusses their intense relationship, mutual respect, and the balance between ego and humility.

• Shaquille O'Neal [40:53]: "And Phil tells me that he went to the finals seven, eight or nine times and lost before he won."

• Dax Shepard [49:08]: "Do you think you cared about money too much?"

• Shaquille O'Neal [54:17]: "I have the best Instagram account."

11. Business Philosophy and Investments

Shaq emphasizes strategic investments and understanding the 'exit strategies' of businesses he partners with. His approach is methodical, aiming to support ventures that have the potential to scale and positively impact lives.

• Shaquille O'Neal [66:08]: "I always ask them, they're out. So now that I know what your out is. So now I know, hey, hopefully I can help you get to that."

12. Closing Reflections

In the concluding moments, Shaq shares heartfelt reflections about family, regrets, and the importance of expressing love. He urges listeners to cherish moments with loved ones and to reach out before it's too late.

• Shaquille O'Neal [70:29]: "So I always urge people, even though I say it, I still need to do."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Shaquille O'Neal [17:07]: "I block people every day. It's a phenomenon. And I enjoy going into schools, talking to children about that."

• Shaquille O'Neal [32:15]: "It's like, no, but for 19 years. But in the summer, I wouldn't take it."

• Shaquille O'Neal [57:36]: "This is when Jeff Bezos, years before he created Amazon, he said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives."

• Shaquille O'Neal [70:29]: "So I always urge people, even though I say it, I still need to do."

---

Conclusion This episode offers a profound look into Shaquille O'Neal's multifaceted life beyond the basketball court. From his battles with personal challenges to his dedication to education and philanthropy, Shaq presents himself as a figure of resilience and generosity. His honest reflections on fame, relationships, and personal growth provide valuable insights, making this episode a must-listen for fans and those seeking inspiration from one of sports' greatest personalities.

Listeners interested in applying for Shaq's Shak Scholars scholarships or learning more about his venture Campus can visit shackscholarscampausedu for more details.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free Right now. Join Wondri plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by the miniature mouse from Duluth.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

We're in a foreign location.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

And I want to thank from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Mike. He's not only gorgeous, he's generous, he's kind, he's smart. And this is his studio.

[Monica Padman]

He's got it all.

[Dax Shepard]

And we needed a place to record in New York and he was so gracious in offering us this. So thank you.

[Monica Padman]

And it's a beautiful studio.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a bootiful studio. Very, very nice. Well appointed. I had a nice espresso while we interviewed our guest. And our guest, speaking of which, is our biggest guest of all time.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

At seven foot one.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Shaquille o'. Neal. Oh my God. Shaquille o'. Neal, four time NBA champion, first round draft pick, multiple mvp. One of the only three or four players that ever got MVP in the season, the playoffs and the All Star game.

[Monica Padman]

Just one of the best to do it.

[Dax Shepard]

He is the most dominant and he has, he's an investor in this really kind of incredible new a venture called Campus, which gets folks who traditionally would not have gone to college, makes it incredibly easy for them, helps them get funding. It's awesome. And that's what we're here to talk about. And if you would like to apply for one of the many Shack scholarships that are being given out, go to shackscholars Campus Edu. That's shackscholars Campus, Eduardo. Please enjoy the most effervescent NBA player of all time, Shaquille o'. Neal. We are supported by Wild Planet. Love canned seafood, but having a hard time finding a high quality and sustainable option. Wild Planet has wild caught responsibly harvested tuna, sardines and more. It's seafood the way nature provided it with less processing and more delicious nutrients. It's. If you're a trend chaser, tinned fish is having a moment this summer. Sea couterie boards and tinned fish date nights are blowing up on social media and haven't you heard, it's sardine girl summer. What's Wild tastes better? Not only does Wild Planet taste good, it's good for you and the planet. You haven't had canned tuna like their albacore tuna, a solid tuna steak without any fillers, just cooked once in its own juices. It's an amazing source of clean protein with 33 grams in each can. It's time to bring tuna salad back into your lunch rotation. Wild Planet is offering armchairs 25% off and free shipping through August 15th. Go to wildplanetfoods.com and redeem coupon code DAX. That's wildplanetfoods.com promo code DAX we are supported by Squarespace. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to create a professional website, grow your brand and get paid all in one place. Our website functions beautifully. So seamless, like a Swiss made timepiece. And it was all designed on Squarespace by Wobby Wob. And it was easy. The cutting edge design tools on Squarespace are a game changer. With Blueprint AI, their AI enhanced website builder, you can create a fully custom site in just a few steps. It generates premium content and personalized design recommendations based on your brand and goals. Plus their intuitive drag and drop editor makes it easy to fine tune everything to your liking. But Squarespace isn't just about looks. Their integrated SEO tools help you get discovered faster online. Every Squarespace site is optimized with meta descriptions, an auto generated sitemap and more. So you show up more often in search results and attract your ideal customers ready to claim your corner of the Internet. Go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com and promo code DAX to get started today. He's an object exper.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You look like a lawyer.

[Monica Padman]

Me?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. You look very, very smart.

[Monica Padman]

I take that as a compliment.

[Dax Shepard]

She's extremely intelligent.

[Monica Padman]

I do like to argue as well. So I could have been a lawyer.

[Dax Shepard]

Very argumentative.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

What do you argue about?

[Monica Padman]

We argue about anything. You can throw anything at us and we'll probably have a different opinion.

[Dax Shepard]

Is this guy blue?

[Monica Padman]

Who knows? How can we possibly know?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You wouldn't remember meeting me. First of all, you used to live across the street from Tom Arnold.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I did.

[Dax Shepard]

And I used to go over to his house and I think you had just gotten one of those like three wheeler spider type fucking motorcycle deals.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That was you?

[Dax Shepard]

That was me, baby. And then that's not the good one. The good one was we were walking to the Village Bruin Westwood to a movie premiere. And I'm behind you on a sidewalk. And I've only Met you once in Tom Arnold's driveway, and this is a huge swing. You're in front of me and I say to you, hey, I'm the biggest person at these things. You got to go home or something. Making a joke. And you turned around and at that time you recognized me and you picked me up like a little tiny baby, like, under my armpits, and you lifted me off the ground and I almost said, we. I was like, oh, my God. I felt like this. 30 years I'm a baby.

[Monica Padman]

That's so fun. You never get to feel like a baby.

[Dax Shepard]

I rewatched the doc. I've been trying to get you for, like, three years because the Shaq doc on HBO is one of my favorite favorites I've ever seen.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You've been trying to give me how long? It's called DM.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't even think to DM you. You're reading the DMs. I would have got to you.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, We've tried all the other routes.

[Dax Shepard]

Good tip.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I just been wanting to do this for three years. I thought that turned out so good. Did you like that?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I never washed it.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me why.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Never washed myself.

[Dax Shepard]

Ever.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Accidentally I may see myself, but I don't shoot something and then. Let me see it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Edited this way. Never been that person. You know, when you're taught by army drill sergeant never to rest on your laurels, never to be satisfied. Once I finish a project, I'm on to the next because I know that one day projects may not be there. So I'm happy to just keep it moving. I mean, I always say to myself, as motivational, I'm 53 in seven summers. Will I still be shooting 20, 30 commercials in a row? Who knows? So while I have this opportunity to continue to work, I just like working because one day, and you know, it happens to all of us, we get older. One day they may say, you know what? You're too old. We want to move younger and may have to retire. Retire. So I just like working.

[Monica Padman]

What scares you about retiring?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Well, I want to say I'm scared. It's just that live the wonderful life. But seven summers, I'll be 60. I just can remember 18, 20, 20.

[Dax Shepard]

And you start playing the game, right? Like, I gotta do something on that summer. So if I wait to 75 to have my summer and I can't do anything, I can't go on a Jet Ski or something.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly. So I'm just trying to. I was looking a little bit like Charles Barkley. So I'm starting to really take the anti aging thing seriously. Really starting to get in shape. I see a 4.8 pack, so I'm gonna try to get up to an eight pack by the end of the summer. I usually work and then take the summer off and just do whatever, but, you know, I have to change my routine. Trying to get my championship mental focus back. Was really out of shape and started having some health problems. But now I'm starting to get back on track.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm shocked you didn't watch the Doc, though, because if I were you, I would have watched it because you were pretty honest. Not pretty. You were really, really honest and open. And definitely we got some stuff from you that we hadn't seen prior to that. And I think I would have been like, I need to see how that turned out. I was pretty vulnerable in that. I was pretty honest. How did that look?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I mean, I've always tried to be honest with people. People always ask me, you endorse so many products. It's not that I endorse so many products. I endorse products that I believe in. If I don't believe in a product, I can't get in front of the camera and sell it to you. It's unethical and it's just not right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You were offered Wheaties, right?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're like, I never fucked with Wheaties. I'm never going to fuck with Wheaties. I'm a Frosted Flakes guy.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Frosted Flakes and then Froot Loops.

[Dax Shepard]

We intersected at Fruity Pebbles. That's my indulgence.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

One of the things I was blown away with, I think, because I have currently a 10 and a 12 year old little girls. And at 10, you were 6ft tall. So I'm picturing Delta at 6ft tall. And at 12 you were 6. 6. And I guess my question is, were they ever worried you had acromegaly like Andre the Giant? Were they ever worried that there was something going on?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I never heard that word. But I went to the doctor and the doctor said I had Osgood Schlatters.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the painful thing with your legs, right?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I was like, oh, my God. Being a kid, you don't want to hear. You have also.

[Dax Shepard]

I'd have been like, I'm German.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, right, Right. So he said, I have Osgood Slaughter. So I didn't ask questions. I was like, man, my knee's gonna hurt like this forever. And then one day I just kept playing. I Just grew out of it and I haven't had any problems since. But my great grandfather who I met before he passed away was 7 4.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

74.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

74. He lived in Dublin, Georgia. We came back from Germany and my mother tells me and I was always not really ashamed about being tall because I was the only tall person in my school. She's like, you come from great stock. And when I seen this man, Dublin, Georgia, on his farm, he had an ox, he had a plow. And when he took his shirt off, he looked like a he man doll, really. Muscles everywhere. My mom was like, that's how you gonna look when you're older.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And I didn't have glass at the time, but if I did, I'd have been like, sign me up, chocolate man, bald headed. Such myself. And he took his shirt off. I'm talking about 14 pack. It was incredible. My mom's like, that's how you gonna look. And once I seen him, I was like, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Did you get made fun of for being tall?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No, I had to convert into bullyism.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you did.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Bullyism and sillyism. When you get there, people talk about you. So had to make them like me by being silly. And the ones that didn't like my jokes.

[Dax Shepard]

Three o', clock, a bus driver asked your mom if you were retarded.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. And she punched him in the face.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So that kind of stuff was happening. Right. Any girls like you in elementary school? No. Right. Because you're a fucking man.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You're like one of the teachers. I couldn't resist attention from women. My story is I was that big log in elementary. All my buddies had cute girlfriends and I just wanted that so bad. So then when the switch finally flipped in junior high where girls were starting to go like, oh yeah, okay, I'm into this. I just couldn't resist. I loved that approval from girls.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I actually thought about it, starting a how to date book. Because for people like us it's two stories. It's the easy side. Meet em la la la. And then there's a regular side. I started on this side. Never had to go on dates, never had to do anything. So it was more of that. So now when you're used to that and then you transition back, it's very tough. I was reading the Five Love Languages and I didn't realize that sitting with your wife, watching TV is not spending quality time with her. I never knew that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, hold on then I'm fucked. Because that's what.

[Monica Padman]

I know what you mean though. That's just being next to somebody.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I never knew these things, like, I was never taught. Because, like you said, nobody wanted us.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And then when I hit that cover.

[Dax Shepard]

Of Sports Illustrated, everything changes.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. I'm coming with you. For real?

[Dax Shepard]

How are you going to not say yes to that exactly if you want it so bad? It's the same. I wanted the cool BMX bike. Couldn't get it. I wanted the cool Big Wheel.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You wanted the Mongoose.

[Dax Shepard]

I wanted a Mongoose. Or a Super Goose. Or the Hutch. Any of the. The other guys have.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I have a confession.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Dion Wallace. I stole your mongoose in Germany at one time.

[Monica Padman]

I'm glad you got that off your chest.

[Dax Shepard]

Statue of limitations on the stolen bike are probably up. Yeah. I wanted all that stuff so bad, so then when I could get it, I just acted like an idiot because it was, like, stored up.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, we gotta stop on love language as well.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to know yours.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I predict yours?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's words of affirmation.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You're really good. That's the first one.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, same.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Really good.

[Dax Shepard]

I need you to tell me you love me.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Thank you. That's all.

[Dax Shepard]

And which one's hard for you to meet in a partner? You know, their love language is this.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I can meet them all.

[Dax Shepard]

Acts of service.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I can do all that. Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

No, let me just say. Acts of service isn't writing a check. Acts of service is like mopping the floor. You can do that now.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I can do that.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the hardest for me.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Ten years ago, I couldn't do that.

[Dax Shepard]

We had a sex expert on a sexologist recently. And you want to hear the worst part? The things that gets women horniest wives. It's not foreplay. It's called chore play. Chore play. They want to see you, like, clean and do the laundry and, like, take off their plate. I get it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Sure. Play.

[Monica Padman]

It's not seeing them do it. It's not like it's a turn on to watch. It's just like, oh, this was taken care of. Now I don't have to take care of it. That's hot.

[Dax Shepard]

We had her on. I'm like, oh, this is great. She's gonna tell me, like, I gotta rub her feet, and then I'll be in business. She said, no, you gotta, like, you do the dishes.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

What if you're athletes? Score play.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, look, the NBA group is every time.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. Score.

[Dax Shepard]

Play.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You have a little bit of a leg up there.

[Dax Shepard]

I think about how fragile life is when I was watching that doc again. You got one of these situations where you're either good time Charlie, good times, you're San Franciscon. All the things that made you love being goofy and comedic. And then you got a side that's like, don't with me. It's on. And you beat a kid up and he had a seizure. And I think about man, life's fragile like that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Very fragile. Was definitely protected by the man upstairs.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Can you remember the moment of kind of panic of, oh, wow, this just got serious.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You know, a lot of times when you're. And I was a medium level Jude of an undilin, not high, probably stole a car, steal candy bars, fights, all that teenage stuff. It didn't hit me till after that. You could have went to jail. And being 6 5, 6 7, you probably would have been one of those cases. Oh, we have to try you like an adult.

[Dax Shepard]

You're black.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You're huge.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And I'm living in Fort Stewart, Hinesville, Georgia.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you're getting tried as an adult at 12.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly. So it changed me because now you have to tame the bullied. Damn near turn it off. He's still there when necessary. It's like a superhero. I'm not gonna walk around Superman all day. I'm gonna be Clark Ken. But when there's a problem, up to and then come back to normal. And then my mother sat me down. My father was very upset, definitely got in trouble and had to do chores around the base. He's like, you gonna go to every house and take out the garbage and cut every grass? But my mom was like, baby, you're special. You're strong. You're gonna hurt somebody. Don't ever do that again. And when you're raised by a drill sergeant, you're programmed not to make the same mistake twice.

[Dax Shepard]

I had a bad run of being a bully in elementary school. I was dyslexic, so I was dumb as fuck.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Me too.

[Dax Shepard]

But then compounding that was. I had a brother that was five years older than me that beat my ass every day.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I had crazy stepdads in the mix. So I have to admit, selfishly, when I got to school and I had some power.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Oh, didn't it feel good? Yeah, it felt good. Going to school and everybody fearing you.

[Dax Shepard]

When you're leaving a house where you're kind of scared sometimes. Yes, because you speak so positively about Phil, your dad. And for people who don't know, I'm sure, everyone knows. But not your biological dad, but been raising you since you were two. Fucking great dad on all accounts, but also ruled with a heavy hand. I wonder, as positive as all that was, do you think going to school and feeling like being him in the scenario was a bit of a relief?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Now that I look at it, it definitely was a release. Like you said, when you don't have control in one place and you have control in other places. Irresistible. It feels great. Rule with a seriously heavy hand, but all I can say is thank you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it seems like you were able to admire it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I do. A lot of people wouldn't be able to handle it, but I've never been one of those ones. I'm glad he did it, because even as a medium juvenile delinquent, he used to say stuff that's true today. You looking at that ugly ass car, you're gonna have 50 cars. You wanna buy your mama house? A 2,000 square foot house. If you listen to me, your house gonna be 100,000 square feet. You're gonna be living in Beverly Hill. Like, he used to tell me stuff that I wouldn't even dream. And when it happened, I was like, you know what? It worked.

[Dax Shepard]

The subtext of that is I really believe in you. And you need to believe in you as much as I believe in you.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

But I do wonder, for you to admit it might have been too hard at times would almost appear as weakness. And if that's in the way at.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

All, I could say it now, would never say it. Then weakness has also made me who I am. Because when you, oh, he's never gonna win a championship. Pisses me off. It taught me how to take that criticism and turn it into motivation. I love being criticized because now I'm able to look at the criticism and see if there's some truth in it and work on it.

[Dax Shepard]

I heard you make a great point on Pivot. You were awesome on that. That whole show's great.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

More specifically, you don't mind criticism from a peer or someone above you. And I think that's really relevant.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, it is.

[Dax Shepard]

You seem to have a really healthy attitude about anyone who doesn't know what the hell you've been through or done, the thing you've done. And they're chirping online. Why on earth would you pay that any attention at all?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I work a lot in law enforcement, and when the term cyberbullying came up, I didn't understand it. It's simple. Like, if he's bullying you, you don't know him. Why don't you block him?

[Monica Padman]

Right. You don't have to engage.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, I block people every day. It's a phenomenon. And I enjoy going into schools, talking to children about that, but it took a nuclear physicist to teach me that, so I used to read everything. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's irresistible.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So when I talk to these nuclear physicists, start laughing. He said, who is that guy? I don't know. He said, so why do you care? What did Jerry west say? Jerry west loves me. All right, then what the Kareem say? Kareem's a little hard. Okay. Well, you listen to people like that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And then he made me watch this movie. I don't know if you saw the Fan with Robert De Niro and Wesley Snipes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. So remember when Robert, he's a deranged baseball fan.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. And he kidnaps him. He says, I want to hurt you. He says, how do you hit all those home runs and all the RBIs? And Wesley said, I don't care. And once I saw that, changed my life. My career took off.

[Monica Padman]

Whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

Really?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. So of course, I listen to my family and people that are equal and people that are above.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, let's go back to Lucille, your mom.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love your mom.

[Dax Shepard]

Your mom's the fucking greatest.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Thank you. When I didn't believe in myself, I would just throw things out, and she would believe it. And then one day, take me to a AAU game. We rounded this neighborhood, and she stops and she looks at this house. Not the houses that we live in, but it was a nice house. Because she never had a proper house that was just hers, you know, Grew up brothers and sisters, and we always brothers, sisters, and cousins. It was in Alamo Heights, Texas. That's where all the rich people live in San Antonio. And she was looking at it, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get you a house. So once I put something that's set in stone, you're gonna have to kill me to break it. And I've seen this lady wake up every day, cook a hell of a breakfast, iron our clothes, iron her clothes, go to work, come home, cook a hell of a dinner, wear the same pants on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Just change up the shirts and had one outfit for company parties and all that, but never complained. So from 2 to 12, juvenile delinquent. And then one day, I'm watching TV and John Konkac signs for 15 for 3, $5 million a year. So my father has some tickets, and we go watch this Guy play. And I'm like, he's good, but I'm better. So I'm like, if he's making 5 million a year, I can make 4. I wasn't putting myself a bumble. Like, I can make four. But I said, I'm about this lady house. And that was my whole motivation. That's been my whole motivation forever, just to take.

[Monica Padman]

And how did it feel when you did it?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It felt great because I had to trick them into buying a house because they were really good parents. They actually raised me through a lot of horror stories. You know, we got all this money coming in. We know nothing about financial literacy. Buy your house first. Get yourself situated, then buy me a house. I was like, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It's safe to assume you're the first in the family tree that's dealing with this kind of wealth.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, I am. Only I know, is putting the money in the bank. But wait, the bank only insures 200,000. So if you lose that, I'm kind of scared. And invest. Invest in what? So I had to, like, figure it out through trials and tribulations. But I saw this nice house. Beautiful, like something I've never seen before, with the pool and the marble floors. And they were on the mission to help me find my house. First. I said, mom, you like this house for me? She's like, I love it for you. And I gave her the keys. I never seen a person cry so fast.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And she said, we can't afford this. I was like, it's already paid for. I wanted to make certain mistakes early. Like when you got a whole bunch of money coming in. You could be silly up front.

[Dax Shepard]

You really fucked up the first million, let's be honest.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Oh, easily.

[Dax Shepard]

You blew it all in one day.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

One day? One day.

[Dax Shepard]

You buy three Mercedes in one day.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Oh, yeah. Three Mercedes in one day.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

He bought himself one. Brought home. Serge's like, that's nice. He goes, well, let's go get you one. And then mom was like, no.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

But when I gave her the keys, she said, we can't afford this. It was paid for. And the reason why I paid for it, if everything goes wrong, if I'm one of those dumb athletes, at least.

[Monica Padman]

My mom has to pay for it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, exactly.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Have you watched the 30 for 30, bro?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, I have.

[Dax Shepard]

That's so heartbreaking.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

And what they point out, which is so great, is like, if you chart anyone else's earning potential in their life, it starts little. And as they get Older and wiser and more experienced. It keeps going up and up, but.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It'S easy to do. A lot of people don't understand. I was looking at NBA salaries a day. I want to put people's business out there. But a guy's making 50 and living in California after tax, he's only netting 17. They always, oh, he's making 200 million. But we know as business people, you don't net 200 million.

[Dax Shepard]

You got an agent, you got taxes.

[Monica Padman]

But they're spending as if they have 200.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's the point.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, he was overdrawn within a couple days of his first million dollars. He gets a million, he's like, oh, wait, there's only 600,000. But I spent. For people who don't know your whole story, I do think it's fascinating that in ninth grade you tried out, you got cut. Tenth grade, you try out, and your legs hurt so bad. And then your dad gets stationed in Germany, and you're over in Germany, and the coach of lsu, Dale Brown, he's visiting. Your father goes, you should go introduce yourself to him. And he sees you, and you start asking questions, and he asks, how long are you enlisted for? He has no idea you're 13 years old or whatever.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And this is a time where you have to start believing in yourself and other people believe in you. He put his arm around me like he found gold.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, he did.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You're 13. And he grabbed me, said, where's your father at? Well, he met my father, and they had a conversation. And that's the reason why I went to lsu, because before I became the character known as Shaq, you were terrible.

[Dax Shepard]

At that point, right?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Awful.

[Monica Padman]

What do you mean?

[Dax Shepard]

As a basketball player, couldn't play, he was terrible.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Couldn't dunk, couldn't jump. It ain't no way I'm supposed to be one of the world's greatest big men. But he believed in me, and he wrote me a letter, and all the exercise he sent, I did it. And Scott cut. The next year, I wrote him a letter back, and he says, you know what? A lot of African American kids don't get the opportunity. I'm still giving you a scholarship. You can come. You can be, like, team manager and maybe work your way up to an assistant coach.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So I had a scholarship, even if I didn't become checked to lsu.

[Dax Shepard]

You must recognize that you have this incredible life of highs and lows. It's like, dad's not there, Sarge shows up. Well, that's a jackpot. You got fucked. Then there's a jackpot. You get cut. It kills to run. But you meet this sweet guy, and he believes in you. That's kind of crazy. Angels by senior year. So you got cut in ninth grade. You can barely run down the court in 10th grade. And then by senior year, you average 47 points in the playoffs. The highs and lows of that and kind of the whiplash of how quickly your life can kind of change, I think could set a little bit of a pattern. I have a similar one. You get kind of maybe a little addicted to this.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I am. Because it helps us continue the fight. And I was trying to teach my second son, Sharif, that high school started off slow. State championship. You go to college, not really playing, never playing. Then you have the hard thing. Boom.

[Dax Shepard]

For people who don't know, at ucla, your son has to have heart surgery.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

He has to have heart surgery when.

[Dax Shepard]

He'S at that moment feeling NBA bound.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly. So go to the Lakers. Pre thing. Cut. G league, cut. And then I had to pull him to the side and be like, my man, we don't need another basketball player.

[Dax Shepard]

We got one.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

We got one. You just being a outstanding kid. That's the biggest compliment I can get. Cause, one, you're never gonna be like, me. I'm crazy, right?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm from a different era.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly like that.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't beat the shit out of me. I didn't beat the shit out of you. Let's start there.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Like, I don't know if you watched the Reebok show. I did, but we had a hard time.

[Dax Shepard]

Power moves.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. I was like, how many things did I miss? You missed a lot, dad. You don't ever want to be like that. Once you have a family, you don't want to be like that. I had to be there because it was my destiny, because I wanted to build something big. So I kind of had to be like this. But you don't have to be like that. So you see a lot of kids that are very successful just by hard work and passion. Just like we did. Just like all of us did. It doesn't matter if you have a degree or not. You work hard, you believe in something, you follow it. Like, my oldest son is one of the world's top DJs. Oh, really? Yeah. Miles O'. Neal. I bought him a little controller and I taught him.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you guys do shows together?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, we do. Midnight tonight, we're going to Germany.

[Dax Shepard]

No way.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're doing a show together. And you have room on your Plane for me.

[Monica Padman]

I do. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you for the invite. I'll come.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And I remember one time I got mad, but then I smiled at the same time. So I land in la, he picks me up, and the car smells like cannabis. So now I get a dad.

[Dax Shepard]

You sound like such a dad. It smells like cannabis, not weed.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. So now you motherfuh. I don't put hands on, but it gets very intense. And he starts laughing. He said, dad, have you seen my ladies report car? I said, yeah, you got all lace. He said, okay. No disrespect, dad, but I've always had A's. I've always did what you wanted to do. And cannabis is legal and I'm 21 and it made me shut the fuck up.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God. He kind of checkmated you.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Checkmated me?

[Dax Shepard]

You've never been into weed?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No. Hookah.

[Dax Shepard]

You smoke hookah? That's just tobacco.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, it's tobacco.

[Dax Shepard]

And does it give you a little buzz?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No, it enables me to follow the routine of sit your ass down.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it calms you down, Forces you to be still.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

When I was young and dumb and I lost my family by doing too much. Being out, being in too many places. Yeah. So now don't go to clubs. Don't go to gentlemen's clubs. If you see me in a club, it's because I'm DJing. I gave myself a lifetime ban on that stuff. But so I'm not a mute. I don't just work and go home. I allow myself to go to hookah bars. Cause at a club on bottles, and you walk in and section and this and that, but at a hookah bar, you sit down. So now when I'm. I'm thinking about the next move, just blowing out.

[Monica Padman]

Do you regret that period of time that you had?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, of course I do.

[Monica Padman]

Because of the consequences.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But also, I don't know how you could resist that at that time.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, but that's an excuse. When you're raised by intelligent people, you know better. Especially once you walk down the aisle and give those vows. You gotta have some control.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this is my single favorite part of the doc. For people who don't know. So your biological dad, Tony, he was not around. Soon as you broke. He went on Ricki Lake, which was a bummer. Were you embarrassed by that? I would've been really embarrassed, yes.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Cause I didn't want people in my business.

[Dax Shepard]

Did it feel trashy?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

A little bit. It's not trashy. You know, in our business, once the media gets a Hold of something juicy. Now I gotta answer it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. That was a big match for everyone.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. So now it's, oh, you don't wanna talk to your father and your little brother. I don't even know them people. But when I failed my family, I said I had to ease up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You said in the doc, when I do the same stupid shit he did, I'm in no position to judge you. I think the fact that you were able to. I don't know about mend is the right word, but reach out and have some connection with him.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's called Dr. Lucille O'. Neill.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. She advised.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. She said, listen, what a good woman. She said, he's a great man. Just had some mistakes. She get to know him. So when we first reconnect, I said, listen, not judging you. I know everything about it. What happened. I understand. I love you, brother, but I'm 50. I don't need a dad.

[Dax Shepard]

I ain't your son.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

But I respect Philip, really. Because when the guy tried to come back around, he's like, no, he's mine. Staying with me. We know who you are. We know you brought him in the world. But he's here.

[Dax Shepard]

It was bad.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Under my roof. He's under my roof. And when you want to call and talk, you have my permission. You come through me.

[Dax Shepard]

So what's crazy that you didn't get, seemingly biologically, is dad was an addict. You had to be on pain pills to play.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I did.

[Dax Shepard]

You were playing through so many injuries. Again, back to this thing where I'm suspicious that for you to admit you have any weakness would be too painful. You're just keeping it all in. You're just playing through everything. You have stuff that's going on, and, yeah, you had to be on pain pills. How did that not grab you? Or did it grab you a little bit? Have you ever been scared about any.

[Monica Padman]

Of that, addiction wise?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So I have a question.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Is addicting for the chemical effect or you just taking it? I was having my. He discussed with my doctor. He's like, you were addicted? But I didn't feel high.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, you just felt the absence of pain.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. So I didn't know that was addiction.

[Dax Shepard]

But let's get deeper, Shaq. So there's the absence of physical pain, and then there's the absence of the mental anguish. So even if you're not feeling high, but you're suffering mentally, and that thing provides relief.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I don't think I was suffering mentally. If I had a neck, I would take it. I don't want to feel that neck because we need this game.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah. It was very hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you said I could play good without them.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, but I need to play great. And then I always do. Homeboy math always says, take one, I'm taking three.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, of course.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Which is now my counts are low. I'm fixing everything now, but liver and kidneys. Real low because of that. But like, you hear stories, oh, he was addicted. He did that. I was like, I wasn't that. But I had to have him. So is that addiction?

[Dax Shepard]

For me, addiction is. I'm preoccupied by it. I think about it. I need it. I'm talking to you. But I've got three in my pocket. And I gotta figure out how to take a couple with that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

See, I always thought you'd take it for this effect.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

For example, when I had surgery, I had to take the OxyContin. I would take it just to feel the pain. But after I stopped feeling pain, I would stop taking it. But when I was playing, I always had to take Indocin and Arutis anti inflammatories. I had to take a club sandwich, fries, two pills, wake up. Club sandwich, yes.

[Monica Padman]

That doesn't.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No injuries.

[Dax Shepard]

No, that's what I'm saying.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It's like, no, but for 19 years. But in the summer, I wouldn't take it.

[Dax Shepard]

When the summer started and you no longer were taking, did you feel withdrawal effects?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No.

[Monica Padman]

And you weren't increasing the amount. That's a big thing.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Well, I was says, take one, I will take two.

[Monica Padman]

But then would you take four and then eight and then 16? Like that type of thing.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Important games. Yes. I take two the night before the game, and then I have to shoot around, take two more.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's a fine line. When it's physical pain alleviation versus tricky. It's your job. Yeah. I don't know.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Again, when I hear the word addiction.

[Dax Shepard]

I always thought, yeah, a junkie.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But guess what? There's doctors and lawyers and airline pilots and people who are managing.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You can be a managed addict or a functional addict. I certainly was. I was still coming to work. Work and doing everything I had to do. But I thought about all day and dosage is going up, and at some point I'm like, oh, we're taking a lot of.

[Monica Padman]

And you're hiding it. Hiding it is a big, big.

[Dax Shepard]

You never hide. Right. That's your gift.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It's not that I was hiding. It's just.

[Dax Shepard]

No one's asked.

[Monica Padman]

You're just doing it in secret.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. Well, the trainers knew. I mean, I'm not telling my wife and my kids or my boys, but, like, hey, man, got this knee pain. Here you go, Take one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, and this can't be for a seven foot long, 300 pound dude. That's not what the study was where.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

They determined the dosage.

[Monica Padman]

And that's probably right.

[Dax Shepard]

You got a built in excuse. But that was my same excuse. I'm like, they don't know me when I drank. I also drank a case of beer a day. Like, I got a constitution. That's not for me. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Boar's Head. Back to school time means back to lunch packing time. And what hits harder than a perfect sandwich? And not just any sandwich. You can become your kid's lunchtime hero when you pack them a sandwich with Boar's Head premium Kraft deli meats and cheeses. And of course, Boar's Head is not just for kids. It's for everyone. Nothing beats an afternoon slump quicker than a good lunch. If you feel yourself fading at your desk, that means it's time to take a break and reward yourself with a Boar's Head sandwich.

[Monica Padman]

Mmm. I love a Boar's Head sandwich. I love the oven gold turkey.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

That's my favorite.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, don't. Don't rule out, though, the Boar's Head maple honey ham. I can pile that sky high with a little mustard mayo, and it is a party. Elevate lunchtime with Boar's Head. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli or deli counter. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905.

[Monica Padman]

Hi, I'm Monica Lewinsky. Welcome to reclaiming. I would define reclaiming as to take.

[Dax Shepard]

Back what was yours.

[Monica Padman]

Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. Miley Cyrus. Welcome to reclaiming. My 2013 is your 1998. I lost everything during that time in my personal life because of the choice I was making professionally. Chelsea Handler, welcome to reclaiming. I did have a teacher who instilled in me that I was gonna do something special. And she was like, you're gonna have an impact. Sophia Bush, welcome to reclaiming. You went all the way you committed, and if it wasn't for you, you have the courage to tell the truth and get out. And I had to say that to women in my life, and I had to learn how to say it in the mirror to myself. This last decade for me has really been what I consider my own reclaim, reclaiming my own journey. My own reclaiming story is in the bones of this show. Please listen to Reclaiming on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dax Shepard]

How hard is it to kill a planet?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Maybe all it takes is a little.

[Dax Shepard]

Drilling, some mining and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere. When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

[Monica Padman]

Are we really safe? Is our water safe? You destroyed our town.

[Dax Shepard]

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

[Monica Padman]

We call things accidents. There is no accident. This was 100% preventable.

[Dax Shepard]

They're the result of choices by people. Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime. These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet. Stories of scams, murders and cover ups that are about a us and the things we're doing to either protect the earth or destroy it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dax Shepard]

You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad free right.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Now by joining Wondry plus in the.

[Dax Shepard]

Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's your man, Nick Cannon and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at Night. I've heard y' all been needing some advice in the love department, so who better to help than yours truly? Nah, I'm serious. Every week I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions. Having problems with your man? We got you catching feelings for your sneaky link. Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom? Let's talk about it. Consider this a non judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex in modern day dating. In relationships, friendships, situationships and everything in between, it's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy. And you know what? You'll just have to watch the show. So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad free? Join Wondery plus right now. Okay, the other really amazing thing that's really obvious in the doc is you have this incredible at the same time you have this epic humility and an epic ego and you're kind of like managing them both and you're using them both as needed. And I'm wondering when you didn't get it right. Here's an example. So you go into the league, your first round, pick your number one pick. You go to the magic. You go to the finals. Year three, you beat Jordan en route to the finals at. What are you, 22 years old? 23 years old.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

23.

[Dax Shepard]

Really quick. What's that moment like?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It was a great moment, but it was also a teaching moment, because when you beat God, you think the job is done.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, right.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

But then you have to realize in Greek mythology, there's other gods. So we beat Mike and we had.

[Dax Shepard]

Two and then put it neutral.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly. Not putting. You were partying. Gentlemen's clubs, Right.

[Monica Padman]

You're celebrating. Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Parades, like, it was just too much.

[Dax Shepard]

So, yeah. I mean, dude, I couldn't have managed any of this. There's no judgment in this. If I was 22 or 3 years old and I beat God, how could I not think everything was possible and that my powers were unlimited? I think that would be very misleading at 23.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You know, I realized early that I live two different lives. There's real life, and then there's our life, the superstar life. You can't live that life harder than you live this life. So I'm a regular guy. Hello, sir. Hello. Man, you always have to have that. A lot of people in our business.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Like, they live that.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't look good. It's not enviable. They're not living a real life. They don't have real relationships.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

They don't know that until tragedy comes.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I've always been a student, like, not gonna do that. And then never want to disappoint my mother. Like, one time we went to a restaurant, I was trashing. Not trashing them, but just, I'm shacking with my mom. Hurry up. My mom. Grandma said, baby, you don't treat people like that.

[Monica Padman]

Thank goodness for her.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And then again, I'm programmed when you make that one mistake, you delete it. Because if you do it again, you're gonna get up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So she's like, baby, that was your warning? Yes. She's like, baby, you don't need to treat people like that. So that's why when I go to restaurants now, I want to be known as the biggest tipper. I want to let you know that, hey, I appreciate you.

[Dax Shepard]

I was thinking, didn't we have an actor on who used to work at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons and said they waited on you all the time?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And you gave him very big tips. Was it gonna drive me nuts?

[Dax Shepard]

It was great. This person worked at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons. Sebastian, the comedian Sebastian, yes. He worked there for years. And I said, who was the best customer? And literally right away, he's like, shaquille. Shaquille would come in and you would have some shockingly little meal. I was kind of shocked. Fruit platter. And then leave them on her bucks or something.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I learned early that you appreciate the people to help us become who we are. Why would I shit on a server? Because I'm Shaq.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I just really appreciate people.

[Dax Shepard]

Me, too. Okay, so back to the way you've balanced this humility and this ego. One part I love is from the second you get in a position where you're going to be doing interviews, you actually practice. You get people to come film you. You start practicing reading ads and being interviewed and realizing, oh, this is a part of my business. I gotta be humble enough to not just think I can go do this. So there's, like, great humility in that. But then you get to the Lakers, seemingly, this is gonna be a fast pass to the Finals. You guys are gonna be champions, gonna be Showtime 3.0 or whatever. And just. It's not coming. And I'm imagining if you had to say you were at a lowest point, was that lowest point when you should have been winning and it wasn't happening?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I was at the tipping point. I'm going crazy. A lot of people don't realize that, but every time we lose, of course it's going to be my fault. And I'm being a great free throw. I used to tear my house up. I have to be cordial at the press conference. But when I get home, whatever I see, it's giving smash class. So one time, I think it was our last time, we got swept before Phil came in. I'm in the Laker locker room. It's piss and shit everywhere. I'm fucking ripping off urinals, ripping off the doors.

[Dax Shepard]

You're hulking out.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I'm going crazy. And somebody grabs me, and it's pretty strong. I'm like, get the fuck off me. And I turn around. Mr. West. So now I have to turn it off. He pushes me, and I fucking go back. Calm the fuck down. You're gonna get it done. And he tells me that he went to the finals seven, eight or nine times and lost before he won.

[Dax Shepard]

He never won.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I think he won one.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think he ever won. I think that's the great heartbreak of Jerry West. I don't think he ever won.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Rob will look it up.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I'm like, hold on. Seven finals.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you imagine the agony?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Not first round, second round finals. And he was like, I fucking believe in you. We gonna get it done. And then he tells her, we gonna make some fucking changes. This coach is out there. We're gonna get a new coach. When he said, I got a new coach, I'm trying to help him out. I saw Phil was having problems in Chicago. I was like, you need to call Phil. So then Phil does something that I don't know if he think I was going to pass his test. Because when you hear that this guy's a problem, this guy's a problem, you hear these guys are divas. Sometimes you don't want to deal with divas.

[Dax Shepard]

You got to make sure you're coachable.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, exactly. So I get to Montana.

[Dax Shepard]

He tells you, come see me in Montana. Test number one. Really?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. Test number one.

[Dax Shepard]

And you don't even know where Montana is.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I don't. I go to Montana. He has his nice log cabin house. And I see the fucking ball and the sunroof and it's hitting those balls. And I knock on the door and he says, I need you to do me a favor. And I said, what? He said, you and my son need to move that log from the front to the island.

[Dax Shepard]

Swim across a lake. A big old log. Yeah, that's a big swing. To tell you to go swim to an island pushing a log.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

But what he doesn't realize is my field used to do the same shit. I ain't got no gas, push my car two miles.

[Monica Padman]

But still, you could have been like, I'm Shaq. I'm not doing that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I could have.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's what feels the gift that keeps on giving. You're kind of hardwired at that point to receive, respond to that kind of command. Right.

[Monica Padman]

Again, it's when you respect someone.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, but I know it was a test and his son was already in the water. So I was like, ah. I just didn't realize how cold it was. I thought I was gonna die.

[Dax Shepard]

So he comes in, and then you have this incredible three in a row. I gotta tell you a really quick, funny story. You got me out of a dui. I went to ucla. A classmate and I were the biggest fuck ups at UCLA. He's now a professor there, which is hysterical. Jason DeLeon. And you guys won in 2000. And we were such Lakers fan. And we went out hard, and we were both riding on my motorcycle in Venice and we saw cops. Then we tried to turn down an alley and we ended up in a bush. Then the cops caught us and we were both like, we're fucked. We're going to jail. And the cops were like, what's happening here? And Jason goes, I'm sorry, officer, I've been a lifetime Lakers fan. We're just celebrating that they won. And then the cop goes, I'm a lifetime Lakers fan too. Why don't you guys get a cab home?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, nice.

[Dax Shepard]

And let us out.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyways, yeah, you guys go on this huge run and then there's another part of the doc that I'm curious about and someone who I think has the same kind of money things, which is like, I wanted it. I'm so afraid of losing it. It's so important. That's the metric I'm gonna evaluate myself on. What did you pay me? What'd my co star make? Why'd he make more? I should be here. That racket. Do you think you cared about money too much?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Of course. It takes never having it to want it. And then once you get it, you know that there's a window you can get more. My dream was to make 8 million for 10 years. That was my dream in high school. I had it on the board. You remember that place? It was a store I used to go. I think it was called Spencer's.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, right, Spencer's gift.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, Spencer's Gift. Spencer had a poster with this nice house with a three car garage.

[Dax Shepard]

Remember that justification for higher education?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, that boom.

[Dax Shepard]

I had that had a Lamborghini Countach, a Ferrari.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

And a Porsche.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I had that on my wall.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, I did too.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And I was like, you know what ain't made for 10 years? And I already had. I'm gonna get a Jimmy Blazer and get me a little Benz and get me an old school something. So then I'm in college one day and I think Derrick Coleman signs for 20. Larry Johnson signs for 30. So did I get an agent? He said, man, I'm gonna ask him for 50 million. I was like, what? Like 50 million? So I was one of the first guys that you sign, but in the middle of your deal, you can renegotiate and get more money. So when I signed my 50, my guy was like, hey man, if you do what I expect you to do, your next contract would be 100 million.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I was like, what? So that's why I'm going crazy. So now when my time's up, I want 150 because I learned in a marketing class you always start high.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, right.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I'm not going to say 100, because I already know you're going to walk me down to 80. I want 150. The Orlando's like, we're not paying you 150. And then one night during the Olympics, Jerry West. First time I met Jerry west, he showed me that contract. I saw so many zeros. 1200 look like a telephone number. Yes. So I signed with the Lakers, but then my guy was like, hey, man, if you do well with this, you can get another 100.

[Dax Shepard]

You bring three titles.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly. Yeah. So then I won more. And they said, no, we like the young guy more. We think we're going to trade you. So then I go to Miami and the guy's like, hey, man, if you help us win, I'll give you 100. I made a lot. So the answer is yes.

[Dax Shepard]

It seems like you learned a little bit. I mean, there was a point where, yes, the money was really, really important in the Lakers. And then when you're on the Heat, Riley or whoever said, look, if I can give you 125 and we get nobody, or I can give you 100, we can get a winning team. You made the decision then.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Because I knew I had to win one more.

[Dax Shepard]

And why'd you have to win one more? Be honest.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Because I wanted to win before he did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I would be the same.

[Monica Padman]

You wanted to win before Colby.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because you guys had to share that glory and then you get split up and. Yeah, if he runs away and does it immediately, then that diminishes. That's the eagle part again. It's the balancing.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. But it actually made both of us great because I know I used to drive him crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I knew what he was. I knew what he was capable of accomplishing. I used to drive him crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

It's impossible. The fact that you're both on the same team. I mean, when you look at the history of the NBA, the fact that both of you, it'd be like Jordan and Wilt were on the same team or you name the people.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, but my leadership style. Always focus on the tasks. If I was with you guys, my task would be make us go viral. I bring over everything, and we don't.

[Dax Shepard]

We're have to pull our pants down. I think.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, we don't add.

[Monica Padman]

I think the picture of me standing next to you is going to be pretty. Pretty impressive for people. Basketball is so interesting because when you were talking about Kobe and the teams, it's one of the only sports that. It is such a team sport. You need each other, you rely on each other. But then there's also superstars in the mix. They're our best players. I just feel like that could get so complicated relationally.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And if you look at our relationship, it's the classic tale of the Godfather. You got the Godfather who came from Orlando, and he's the Godfather, but you got a young coupo. And then finally.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you Michael or are you Sonny? I think you're Sonny.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No, he's Michael.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Kobe.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, I'm the Godfather.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Cause remember when I came to la, I was already established.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I was the biggest thing in the league. So he'. And he wants it.

[Dax Shepard]

You guys are so fucking different, too. He's like speaking Italian.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You couldn't be more opposite.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

We win three, we do a lot of deals, and then finally I get assassinated. They thought I was dead, and I relocate to Miami. I gotta get it back.

[Dax Shepard]

Show up in a semi.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, it's business, you know, for me, being relocated every four years. I just said to myself, I just did two terms in la, now it's time to move on. But I was always thinking about what would happen if we would have stayed together. We either would've. Would've won more or it would've ended up it very badly. And then I had to teach myself, stop wearing. It's a useless title.

[Dax Shepard]

The people in your life already think the way they think about you.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Lucille's been thinking you were this from the jump, right or wrong. And Uncle Jerome said it best. He's like, look, you get paid the most on the team. You're going to be the one they blame. That comes with the paycheck. It's the deal. But when you were stressed, did it ever cross your mind? Because I've had this thought when I've directed movies, which is, boy, these directors that are fucking assholes make great movies. Do I gotta be a dick? Do I gotta be Jordan and have my teammates hate me? Did you ever consider that you were too nice or that you had too much fun? Were you fearful you had to be an asshole to win?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. And then I became an asshole.

[Dax Shepard]

You did.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So you do have to be an.

[Monica Padman]

You think so?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Earlier, I was focused on a relationship. You all right? But now I'm focusing on the task.

[Monica Padman]

That's sad. I wish.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No, it's not sad. Let me tell you why.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

If I know you're gonna give me your best rhetoric when you're upset, I'm Gonna make you upset. So I know Kobe's gonna be a monster when he's mad. This ain't your team. This is my team, little motherfucker. Yeah, they can scream Kobe all you want. This my team. And they would drive him crazy. People like, oh, he was in the gym working out. That's cause you ain't shit. That fucking Michael Jordan jump you're doing is not gonna work. What'd he do, Go fucking shoot a million times to show me it at work? And I needed that. Cause I already know what I'm gonna do. So if I'm giving you 28, 30, and this guy's trying to match me and I'll do me, that's 60 points now, Rick.

[Monica Padman]

It's still for the overall.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's what I'm saying now, Rick. When I kick it to you, give me one big shot, Bob B. Shaw. Me and him gonna do most damage. People don't understand. Everything I did was planned. And it's never personal. Like, oh, why don't you and Kobe don't get along? I don't want us to get along. I want us to win. And then Brian Shaw asked Phil one day, why you never jump on Kobe. You always jump on Shaq. And his response was, I always want Kobe to be in attack mode. Okay, so you want him in attack mode. I'm gonna make sure he attacks. You played fucking soft last night, motherfucker. You missed too many shots. I was just driving crazy. I knew exactly what I was doing. And then whenever he say something to his guys, say something I got. They're talking about us marketing. The more marketability we have, the more money we have.

[Monica Padman]

It's a story.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, some of your story I had wrong. I thought you came out, you were huge. And then you're like, now I'm going to be a rapper. Now I'm going to be a movie star. And I was shocked to learn you went on Arsenio after the first finals run at the end of the season. And you for fun as a bit, rapped with Fushnickens.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Not after the finals. That was my rookie year. I did that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, you win rookie of the year, season's over. You go to Arsenio, you rap with Fouchnikins for fun. And then the next morning, someone offers you $10 million record contract. I'll do any job for $10 million.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's my point. I'm in Four Seasons, I see one of Chris Rock's boys. I want you to be in my movie. First movie I did was CB4 before blue chip? Before blue chip. CB4 was the first. I'm sitting there and Chris Rock is bam. Basketball fan. Know who you are? I know who you are, too. He's like, man, you want to be in my movies? Like, sure. And then four scenes again, sitting in there, and guy says, hey, man, I want you to do this movie, Blue Chip. So, you know, I don't know the stuff. So I said, talk to my agent. Because, you know, that's the thing to say in Hollywood. Okay, I'll get. You know, get to my agent. And my agent's like, bro, this is a real movie.

[Dax Shepard]

That was a great movie.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

As a youngster, you dreamed about it, but I wasn't going to LA chasing that. But you got to take advantage of these opportunities. I was like, I'm not a movie star. 3 million. I'll do it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

What do I have to do? You just have to play a basketball player. I think I can get away with it.

[Monica Padman]

I can probably do that.

[Dax Shepard]

If ever there was a role I might be able to pull off.

[Monica Padman]

Back to being mean, though, real quick. In the doc, I thought it was so interesting. You said you fouled Jordan and then you went to go help him, and he was like, don't help me. Don't help anyone. And I heard that, and I was like, God, that sounds so cruel. Just sounds like such a hard way to live your life. But I guess it works.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And he was only giving me that brotherly advice because we're in the same fraternity. A lot of times you see greatness in other people. All the legends, they respected me for the way that I played.

[Monica Padman]

But did you have to turn that off? Once you left the court? Were you able to go back and forth like that?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, easily.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't like it either. But, you know, as he sits here and he's got four rings, I realize you go to a restaurant, be friends.

[Monica Padman]

No, I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

You got a whole life to be nice and be friends. You got 48 minutes to do something.

[Monica Padman]

At a high level because you're able to do both. That's where it gets tricky, I think. I think some people can't turn it off, and then that's who they are.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Turn it off. But you have to turn it off because it'll burn you up. Yeah, because I got so many motivating factors. Gotta play well, gotta make money. I don't make money. My mother's gonna lose her house. Ah. Gotta win. Oh, shit. They're comparing me to Kareem and Welk. There was just so many.

[Dax Shepard]

And integrity. There were times where you're like, I feel like I'm robbing these people that gave me all this money.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I know, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's the last thing I wanna say. And then we'll talk about campus. But the thing I've admired about you the most, and I've said it on this show, like, 35 times, I watch all these sports stocks. I'm not super into sports, but I am very into sports stocks. I love them all. A lot of these folks haven't seemed to balance fun and success. And I think, okay, Jordan got six. But it came at a pretty big price, in my opinion. That's not how I would want my teammates to talk about me.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Colby got five. That came at a big price. People didn't love Bird. When I look at you, that's it for me. If you can get four and have a good time. I'd rather get four and have a good time than get six and be miserable.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And I just wonder, is that just your nature, or is that something that you've actually been conscious of?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I've always been a class clown, so I do it for real.

[Dax Shepard]

You're just. You.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You're very authentic, silly, like, to make people laugh.

[Dax Shepard]

You have the best Instagram account.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

And all of Instagram. I say this all.

[Monica Padman]

He talks about it all the time.

[Dax Shepard]

I do. I'll turn. I'm like, oh, this song's been out for two days. And Shaq already memorized the words, and now he's doing a dance and singing to it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I didn't know my mom knew what Instagram was. So when I first started doing whatever you wanted, I'm bragging, and I get the call, baby. I get the call. Like, baby, we know how much money you make. Don't throw it.

[Monica Padman]

I love her.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I knew where the social media thing was going, so that's when I said, okay, 60% to make you laugh, 30% to inspire you, and then 10% to floss. Floss. Not floss, sell. Like, hey, I got the new Reebok.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I've seen you on a boat. That's in that 10% category.

[Monica Padman]

Can we talk about privacy for just two seconds before we get into the. What is your relationship to privacy? Because you can't go anywhere.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. In fact, we had the experience. You wouldn't know this, but we were in Austin at Formula One, and we were on the grid.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm getting some attention. Kristen's getting some Attention. And then all the attention stopped. It was palpable. And I'm like, what happened? Everyone's looking a certain way, and I look, and I'm like, oh, Shaquille's a quarter mile away. And we all see him. The whole fucking stadium.

[Monica Padman]

You're the most recognizable person on earth.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You cannot hide. And I was like, either he loves or it's gotta be brutal. I don't know.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So I try to be righteous. Whenever I'm saying or doing. That's who I am. In real life, we have no privacy.

[Dax Shepard]

You in particular.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I can't sell you one thing and then be doing something else.

[Monica Padman]

So it keeps you honest.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It's just about being honest. I can't sit on the podcast, say I don't drink, and then be at the club ever. So I try to be as righteous as possible. And it's the world we live in now.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you have any phase where you're like, fuck, I can't escape this, and I need a break, and I want to go to Arby's, and I don't want anyone to see me?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

My problem is that sometimes when you see something, your brain can be manipulated. For example, if I reach over and put my hand on your leg, but not because I'm trying to caress your leg. Cause I slip and I fall.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I can manipulate that picture. Like, I don't believe Shaq went to Dax thing, and he was trying to rub, like, you know what I'm saying? So. And then once it goes viral, people will take that clip to try to build up their site. So a lot of times, relationships can be manipulated. Because I remember one time, I was at a bar car, and a girl came and took a picture. My girlfriend was you taking other people. I was like, what are you talking about? She shows me the picture, and I saw her and said, what are you laughing? I said, it does look like we're together. Did you forget I told you where I was coming to eat? Like, yeah. So I'm stupid enough to tell you I'm coming to eat here and then bring another girl. That's the only thing I don't like.

[Dax Shepard]

I had a woman in a hot tub say, hey, can we take a picture? I said, well, certainly not in this hot tub, but we could get out. But there's no way I'm in the hot tub with people.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, see, you have to be extra.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Careful, but we have no privacy. But I just try to live a true life.

[Dax Shepard]

I look at the amount of businesses you have, and I am Exhausted, looking like you have 155 guys at one point and you own all these car washes and all the chicken restaurants, all this stuff. It seems exhausting. Yet you have things like campus. When you say I'm done kind of going into ventures because I'm trying to get more money and I'm actually trying to go into ventures where I can spread happiness and joy. I think the rubber meets the road. How did you stumble upon campus?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So let me take you back. If it wasn't for basketball, I wouldn't have never thought of college. A lot of people know they can't afford college. A lot of people know they're not getting scholarships. A lot of people know that if they do go to college, somehow get this money, they're going to be in debt for a long time. But when I met the gentleman today who kind of created, he said he purchased a two year college in Sacramento and he put it together. He wanted to make it debt free. He wanted to make it to where you can go to a two year college of your choice and be taught by professors at elite universities.

[Dax Shepard]

It's online. They help you get the grant money that already exists. There's $40 billion in federal grant money that's out there. Four billion of it went unclaimed last year.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, but we don't know these things.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. So help you get that grant money, be online, real online, not. You watch this recorded video of a professor and then yes, some of the professors either Stanford professor, ucla, Princeton professor, and they help you get funding. They're sending 80% of the students a free laptop because they don't have one.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

They're paying for half of these students WI fi because they know they need good WI fi today. Special dude.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. I used to go to all these conferences because I wanted to feel smart. Yeah, yeah, you want to be smart, hang around smart people. So this is when Jeff Bezos, years before he created Amazon, he said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives. Because at that point I was invested in ghetto shit and crazy shit and.

[Dax Shepard]

Was losing shirts with pinstripes.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I was trying to get rich quick. So he said, you invest in things going to change people's lives. So Ring was the first one, did another one. Then I came across this. I was like, this is definitely going to change people's lives. This helps you get to it quicker. Because, you know, college, my first three years, I'm a junior and I'm in league. I'm like, how come I don't Know what a subchapter S corporation is? How come I don't know what FICA is?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Like, I don't know any of this.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, the best is your mom, you wanted to leave lsu or you're considering, as you should, to go to the NBA. And your mom's like, okay, baby, come balance this checkbook.

[Monica Padman]

Well, your dad said no. He was like, absolutely not.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Mom said, balance the checkbook. And I took one accounting class that I failed. I remember debits and credits. So I'm like. She's like, you're not ready. So then my junior year, I took some business courses and I was like, I'm gonna retake this accounting class. I know the professor. I know I'm gonna pass it. So now when she said. Cause I already knew the move. Okay, balance the tip the of, she's like, okay, baby, you're ready.

[Monica Padman]

I know. I love that story.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, Dale Brown, to his credit again, this guy would have benefited greatly if you stuck around and you were just getting hammered nightly. And he's like, this dude's gonna get injured and not even be able to play if I keep him here.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It's called Lloyd's in London. It was a million dollar policy, which is a lot, but he knows a million dollars ain't gonna be a million dollars. Probably gonna be 400,000. And how long is that gonna last? So he's like, man, you gotta change chance. Because he called me off. He's like, man, Derrick Coleman or Larry Johnson, Whichever one make 20, 30 million, you can get 40, you can get 50. You got another guy believing in me. He's like, yeah, you should go.

[Monica Padman]

It's awesome.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Like, for real. He's like, yeah, you should go. I was like, what about getting my degree? You'll come back. I'll coordinate with the teachers. You come back whenever you're ready and you graduate. Because I was very close to graduate, but never really did it. And then after I shot all those movies and mom said, hey, man, I need to get this degree. So then I finally did it.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

Campus also has success. Coaches available to everyone. Talk about why that's necessary.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I'm in school now at LSU because I wanted to become a sports psychologist.

[Dax Shepard]

Currently, you're.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You made good on your promise to your mom, and you got your BA from lsu. Then you got a master's, and then you got a doctorate in education.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. I didn't know any of this.

[Dax Shepard]

You're sitting with a doctor, girl. We're in a doctor's studio talking to a doctor. It's double. Wow.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Different type of doctor.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but still, now you're pursuing sports.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Psychology, I'm changing it up to mentorship. Now I'm all about validity. For example, if I want to be an actor, I'm definitely coming to you and your lovely wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's be honest. You're going to my lovely wife, and if I'm around, you might ask me where you park when you get to.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

The studio, because y' all are valid in the space. So one time I went to sports psychologist, and a fucker tells me to breathe, and I'm like, you don't know what it's like to be in Sacramento. Down by one, and if you miss his shot, it's your fault there's cowbells. Yes. So that always stuck with me. No disrespect to what they know on the academia side.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But they've never done it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. No experience. There you go.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

There you go. And then there's nobody out there like us. So, you know, that's the ego. I want to be the first. Cause I know, you know, as a kid, I know. Been there a lot of times dealing with the best beats, but I wanted that title, and then. And when I'm changing it to mentorship. A lot of these young athletes, young men need mentors in their life. I just took my first class. It was about the book, the Odyssey.

[Dax Shepard]

Good timing. I think Nolan's got a movie coming out.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. So I'm learning a lot about mentorship, and I'm gonna probably lean towards being a mentor rather than being a sports psychologist.

[Dax Shepard]

But a lot of these kids that end up at campus, they don't have a parent that went to college. So many of them are gonna be first generation to go to college. What a great asset to have there for them to have someone go like, okay, you're failing here. You got to do this. Helping them through the process.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

We definitely offer a mentorship program, and I will be assisting in that. Being who we are, we automatically get the respect. Like you said, Phil Jackson's resume. Because of our resume, we always just try to keep it simple.

[Monica Padman]

I love that. That's so admirable. You could just be on your boat all day. You don't have to do any of this. You don't need a doctorate degree. You don't need any of these things. And you're. You're pushing yourself.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah. Cause when I look at today's athletes, I know what their Problem is in one sentence and you know that I know. I'm not one of these fans. You know that. Hey, stop trying to go to the middle. Go baseline, Joker. Uh huh. Jig is up.

[Dax Shepard]

Your bullshit meter's high for that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, they know that. I know. I actually learned that from old coach Bill Burker with the Lakers. I didn't know who he was. I don't pay attention to shit. He would always say, go baseline, go baseline. And then one day he said, that's the same thing I used to tell Wood. So now I'm paying attention. You coach Will? Yeah, I coach Will and I coach Kareem. So now I know this fucker knows what he's talking about. Yeah, baseline. I averaged eight more points and I still thank him to this day. So I want to be that for these young kids.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

The town of AGDA in France is.

[Monica Padman]

Famous for sun, sand, sea and sea sex. But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.

[Dax Shepard]

The town's mayor, a respected pillar of.

[Monica Padman]

The community, has been arrested for corruption. His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant. Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I am the Archangel Michael.

[Monica Padman]

The whole town has been thrown into.

[Dax Shepard]

Chaos as the mayor.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Mayor is unable to carry out his duties. I would like to address you.

[Dax Shepard]

All legal proceedings have been initiated.

[Monica Padman]

Join me, Anna Richardson and journalist Leo Chic for the mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption and magic. Binge all episodes of the mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad free right now on Wondery plus. Start your free trial in Apple podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery Up.

[Dax Shepard]

I try to imagine your initial meetings with these companies and here's my guess. I feel like when you go in to be an ambassador for a company or invest in a company, you're like, okay, here's what I'm going to provide. I need to be able to give a lot of this away. Is that part of the discussion? Like when you became the president of Reebok. Every time I see you go out to talk about Reebok, everyone that's in the area is getting free shoes. Yes, you gave away 100 and something shoes on film the other night. I was thinking the person had to ship all those after you. Just shut your mouth up.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

One is marketing and two is about when I meet with the companies, I know they know me as a basketball player, so this is what I tell them. I'm the center, you're the point guard, you're the forward. And we're here to win championships. I'm not here to take your money. Because on the business side, a lot of times I ask them, what's your out? I ain't going to lie. I wouldn't mind investing in a company and then we get bought by Amazon. That's not really a goal, but it'd be nice if it happens.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So I always ask them, they're out. So now that I know what your out is. So now I know, hey, hopefully I can help you get to that. And we had that with Ring. That was my first out. And I got a nice hit. It was so beautiful. So now I'm chasing that. Now that I'm chasing money, I'm like, how can I help make this company grow so somebody can take it to the next level? Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So in classic Shaq fashion, you're giving away a bunch of scholarships.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, giving away a bunch of scholarships because we want people to fulfill their dreams and we have the opportunity to do that. And a lot of people call it giving back. I'm just doing what my mother told me to do. When she sees this and hears that story, that's better than you made over 500 million. That's better than you just bought a new house. 10,000 square feet in Dallas. She don't care about none of that shit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. She's not impressed at all.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And I'm getting older. She's getting older. You have to cherish these moments. So I chase those moments more than I chase anything else.

[Dax Shepard]

So how many scholarships are you giving out?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

A lot. I don't want to say a number, but definitely a lot. And if it's not a lot, now that I've said a lot, I'll make it a lot.

[Monica Padman]

I think it is a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyone who wants to apply for a scholarship at campus goes to ShaqScholars campus. Edu. Yes, Shackscholars campus. Edu. Go there.

[Monica Padman]

Listeners do this. This is an awesome opportunity.

[Dax Shepard]

So many, so many kids right now are pretty disillusioned. Like, wait, I'm gonna go pick up 150 grand in debt, enter a job market that I don't even know will be there at the end of all that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like a disruptor approach.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It is. We wanna help people. And I wish I could take all the credit, but Todd A. Is a mastermind behind us and he got the Silicon Valley boys behind us. And it's been doing very well.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. My last Question. Because it seems like we have a very similar relationship with our moms and a similar respect for our moms. I sometimes worry about my life with her. Not on the planet, keeping an eye on me, not for safety, but because she's been my conscious.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

We are the same people.

[Dax Shepard]

She's what's kept me. When I've been in a crack house, everything's fun and I'm smoking crack. This is a good time. And then, God damn if my mom saw this.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

A friend of mine mother just died. And I didn't know what to say. Cause I don't know how that feels. But I think about that all the time. I do a lot of speaking engagements and people will say, what do you want to say? Reach out. And I always tell the story. I don't know if you heard it. Get to see my sister in Orlando on a Thursday. She has cancer, but it's her third time having it. She beat it the two times. They don't tell me that it's stage four. They don't want me to worry. So I see her, but I'm in athlete mode. Fuck it. You beat it the last two times. I called the best doctors. We good. But they're not telling me anything. But I ask her, I said, hey, you want me to stay here? Something said, just stay with her today. But I had a business deal in la. I need to go get this money right quick. But so in my mind, I was like, you don't want me to stay, but I'm gonna go do the deal. Leave there about two, you know, three hours back. So get there at 11, stay all day, leave at six, which is a red eye flight on a plane, she passes away. But the point is, I never got to tell her I love her. But if I would have stayed there with her all day, maybe the doctor would be like, hey, you have stage four. Then I would've, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.

[Dax Shepard]

We stopped everything, right?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And then, same thing with Kobe. We had our little riff. And then I'm downstairs practicing with my son. And listen, Kobe was good to my kids. They love him. His uncle Kobe, I always tell people, this is dad beef.

[Dax Shepard]

He seemed to have immense integrity.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. And then, so I remember one time I was in San Antonio, like, you hate Dave Robinson. I said, yeah, but not to the point. If I see him at a restaurant with his beautiful wife, I'm gonna beat him up. This is. This is a dad thing. So anyway, they love them. So I'm working with one of My sons and one of my oldest sons come crying. So now I'm trying to stop time. My mother died. Your mother. One of your boys get like, shot. Hey, man, what you crying for? Kobe passed away. I said, what the fuck you just said to me?

[Dax Shepard]

It feels impossible. Healthy, vibrant.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Because the night before, we just watched Lebron break his record all day talking about Kobe. Kobe passed away. I said, bro, stop fucking playing. So now on the phone, it's going crazy. I need confirmation. I'm calling people. So now I have to break down. But it makes you, like, fuck. I know I saw him at the last game. We had a little thing, but I could have. So I always tell people, hey, reach out. X. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, if I were you, I think I would have wanted to say to him maybe, hey, you made me better. I want to thank you for that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes. Or, hi. Hi. Well, you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, anything.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Anything. So I always urge people, even though I say it, I still need to do.

[Dax Shepard]

One thing that made me sad in the doc was the Penny stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that made me sad, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, are you good with penny?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah, we are good. I was young and dumb like you said. Remember the ego thing?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Ego.

[Dax Shepard]

Well. And it's almost not your fault.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

No, it was.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, yes, it was.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I'm tactful enough to fix any situation. Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

The repair, probably you could have done better. But I'm saying, the context you come from, I gotta have this. This is how I'm valued. I know this is how I'm valued. Why don't I have this? I understand it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

And then again, it was a Godfather thing. Oh, I'm the fucking man. You trying to say He's a man. Mr. Commission. No, no, no. Oh, you don't want me. Okay. The LA Mafia wants me. Rather than saying, okay, you control this part of the business, I control that part like magic. This thing worked perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a completely stupid question. It's my last one. I don't know why I've always thought this, but all those years I was obsessed with the Lakers, I was like, I think if I would have been bros with anybody on that team, it'd be Robert Horry.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

What do you think about Horry?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I love Ori, you know, Kobe and I get a lot of credit, but definitely would not have won any without the others. So I always try to stir the name Big shot. Bob saved both of our ass a lot. Rick Fox saved our ass a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

B. Shaw, Gary, those boys that catch on fire sometimes. And you're like, ooh, as a Fan. You'd be like, oh, thank.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes, yes. I always dropped. But it was a great. And they really respected me. They knew me, they understood me. Like, everybody always talking about, oh, if you would have been in better shape. My method is my method. You beat me up so much during the year I'm not doing in the summer because I already know mentally when I come back. I'm fucking killing whoever's in my way. Take me some time to get there. But, you know, I don't need to come in the first 40 games.

[Dax Shepard]

I got the quintessential ingredient.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Exactly. And then I'm gonna come in, everybody gonna talk this shit. I'm just gonna get me mad, and then I'm gonna turn it off. Like, I don't want to come in with the lights. I don't want to come in with the lights, dick them, and see what's going on, and then turn them on at the right moment. Because a lot of times when you come in in shape, you get worn out. Yeah, I'd rather work up to it. So I just came in with how I came in. And then, like I always say, I won a Skinny Shack, medium, Shaq and Fat Shack.

[Dax Shepard]

I've lied to you because I've said last question three times. This is the last one.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Four.

[Dax Shepard]

Four, probably five. Another favorite part of you for me is I remember one time you came to a game and you were fucked up. I think maybe you didn't come out to the second quarter. And then you're getting interviewed after the game, and they're like, big fella, what was going on? And then you rap, you freestyle. Stop it. El Pollo Loco. Eat a bunch of chicken, have diarrhea.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

In the locker room.

[Dax Shepard]

This dude's my dude. And then the other day, you were mid live broadcast on TNT and you had to shake your pants out.

[Monica Padman]

We love a your pants.

[Dax Shepard]

An unauthorized evacuation is about the funniest thing. So human.

[Monica Padman]

What could be more?

[Dax Shepard]

Even Superman's almost going to his pants sometimes. Well, that's it, man. You've just brought so much joy to my life and so many other people's.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Lives, and I forgot about the Tom Arnold thing, but I. I remember that.

[Dax Shepard]

That was a fun C, man.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It was.

[Dax Shepard]

It was you, Tom Mar, and Charlie Sheen was up the street. I mean, you talk about three crazy people on one block. Well, great.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

You.

[Dax Shepard]

I hope everyone goes to Sha Scholars Campus Edu and starts that education journey. I mean, if this dude could find time to pick up a master's doctorate, no excuses. Yeah, I can't imagine someone's got a better excuse.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Can I use your restroom? Number one.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Be well, brother. He isn't our parent expert, but he.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Makes mistakes all the time.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts. I saw you've done an Architectural Digest spread.

[Monica Padman]

It was not an Architectural Digest spread, but thank you for bringing it up because I would like to shout it out. There's a very awesome shoe company called Margo. I, like, feel like I'm doing something wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Me too. Are you recording on your zoom?

[Monica Padman]

I am. Your MP4. Wait, Rob, you said something's supposed to be, like, click to the right thing. What's that mean? Sea levels.

[Dax Shepard]

Sea levels. That's, like, how high the ocean is.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so there's a very cute shoe company called Margo and.

[Dax Shepard]

Hold on. I'm exposing my. Can you see my leaf blower I keep in my office?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Like over here, it looks like I have a nice office. And then I scooch this way. And you go, no, it's a shed.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Mixed messies.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Shoe company.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And they picked some people to kind of photograph them in the shoes, but they want to do it in their environment. So we did it in my apartment. And it was so cute. The photographer was incredible. Her name is Sydney. Shout out to. To Sydney. And I thought it was also so nice because now I get, like, pictures in my apartment before I leave it.

[Dax Shepard]

I was gonna say, I would imagine they turned out great to the degree I would imagine people think that's your new house. For a little apartment, it's quite nice.

[Monica Padman]

It is quite nice. I've spent a lot of time making this a very nice apartment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I've been in here eight years plus.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I moved in before we started the show.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Boy, time. It just boogies along. When did you return home from New York?

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I got home on Friday. I have so many stories. I have one that I am so excited to tell you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. And just to recap, the last time we recorded was at Dr. Mike's. Beautiful place.

[Monica Padman]

It was.

[Dax Shepard]

We're resuming from there.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. We were together in New York and then you left. I stayed a week and I even added a day.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Which turned out to be fortuitous.

[Monica Padman]

It was fortuitous because it rained that day and all of the flights were grounded.

[Dax Shepard]

I was texting with my friend Ben and he was sitting on a tarmac for, like, three and a half hours trying to leave New York on the day you were supposed to leave.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I just. The day before, I just knew. I was like, I'm not going home tomorrow. I'm not going home. I'm gonna extend. And my powers are so scary.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet they're starting to scare you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, not to. Remember when I accidentally killed Michelle Trachtenberg. Like, my powers are wild.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, careful.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but I just want to own it. Like, I have to be. I'm trying to use them for good, but, like, sometimes things go willy nilly.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. You're like Terence Posner. You haven't really perfected your powers yet. You're just coming to realize you have them.

[Monica Padman]

Suppose I'm like Year one, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, you're like putting the stepbrother in the snake exhibit. You know, you're still there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but he deserved it. And Michelle Trachtenberg did not deserve it. No, no, I want to be clear about that.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm nervous to even talk about her, to be honest.

[Monica Padman]

Look, obviously, it's a horrible, horrible trap. Tragedy. But. And I realize I. This is genetic. Like, my dad. Well, we know my dad has powers, but also he. When I was home with him and he was talking about quantum mechanics and quantum physics and how that's going to be his retirement plan, he. He was like, but I don't want to learn too much. Like, he was worried that if he, like, knew too much, it would, like, make him go crazy, kind of. And that feels the same as this to me.

[Dax Shepard]

For some reason, I can understand how he would have that fear.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, if you really know how the sausage is made, maybe something is lost. Okay. But hit me with your New York story.

[Monica Padman]

It was all so, so fun. I was. It was confirmed that, like, when I'm there, I'm just at 100. Like, I'm going from place to place to place. I'm walking everywh. I'm seeing everyone. I'm eating everything. Thank God. I had been off of Triz for a little bit, so I was able to enjoy.

[Dax Shepard]

So you could enjoy.

[Monica Padman]

Thank God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. So, anywho, it's a rare, rare comment to hear someone say, thank God I wasn't on Triz that week.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but it's true. Like, can you imagine if I hadn't been able to eat all the. Although it's a little. It's a little confusing because I was. Was expending so much energy that maybe I would have been hungry anyway. I don't know. So Ana came to Me to New York for a couple days, which was so fun because she was coming back from Europe and she was like, why not stop in New York? So she came. That was great. Yeah. Her and I went to my favorite restaurant in New York. Pretty much top three favorite restaurants of all time. It's called Esodi. Oh. Oh. It's the restaurant where the mystery happened last time with that guy Kenneth.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay, great. Kenneth. Which we didn't bump into him again.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Or maybe you did. Maybe that's the story. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

It's not the story. That story has no conclusion. The mystery remains.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. We're there. We have a very early reservation. Like, as it opens five o', clock, we get there and. And I look over and I'm like, wait a minute. That's Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart was at Easote.

[Dax Shepard]

My girl. My dream side piece.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. She's. Oh, my God. It's definitely the best celebrity sighting I've ever had in the wild like that. It was so crazy to see her also eating at the restaurant I'm eating at. It was such an endorsement.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. How validating. Was she there with Snoop Dogg?

[Monica Padman]

No. Oh, that would have been so cool. No, she was with a whole bunch of other people. She was in Head to toe Yellow Susie Condi. Susie Condie is a clothing brand that you definitely know because Kristen wears a lot of Condi and I have a couple pieces. They're kind of like velour sets.

[Dax Shepard]

Airplane gear, right?

[Monica Padman]

No, you can wear them out. You can wear them to E. So, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

They've been pitched to me as an airplane. Like, you want to be comfortable on an airplane, but you want to look stylish. So that, I was told, is premium airplane wear.

[Monica Padman]

It's great for a plane, it's great for Easote. It's great all the time. But she was in yellow. It looked so good. It made me really want the yellow one. I almost tried to go during the trip to copy her, but then I didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyway, she looked, but how close were you seated?

[Monica Padman]

The whole restaurant is so small, so, like, you know, I'm not good at feet.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Could you, like I'm asking, was she two tables over? Six tables over? One table over. Wow. And who is she with?

[Monica Padman]

I didn't know. I wondered if it was like, her family. There were a lot of people there, but no one I recognized except her. Also, I should say there are two tables in between, but the one in between, no one was sitting at. So I just had a very open view.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Oh, great.

[Monica Padman]

She looks. Looked gorgeous. She looked so good. Then I found out yesterday, adding to the sim of all of this, there was a picture of her in the cut. She's wearing the yellow Condi. So I think it was that day that we saw her that she was photographed, and she has, like, a new skincare line or something, and, whoa, her skin looked incredible. So if she was really wearing her skincare, wow, we should all get it, because she looked really, really, really good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she's hot. She's sexy.

[Monica Padman]

There's more. There's more. You think that's the end of the story, but it's not. So that was so, so exciting. Then she leaves. By Martha, I'm on a cloud, right? There's two people sitting next to us at a table right next to us that I can say is like five inches away. Basically one table.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're with them. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And it was a couple. They were kind of upset once they saw our lasagna come, because then it reminded them that they wanted the lasagna, but they forgot to order it. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, bummer. And I saw photos of the lasagna, and it looked insane.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Anyway, so they were very upset about that. They wanted to chat about it with us, so we did that, and then they left. And then a new couple comes and sits down. I'm talking to Ana, so I can see a woman, you know, sitting next to Ana. And I was like, oh, my God, that's a famous person too. I know her face, but I don't remember her. I don't know who she is. So I was looking at Ana. I was like, I think she's somebody too. So Ana went to the bathroom to look, to be clandestine, and then she texted me, and she said, yes, yes, it's Meredith Grey's stepmom from Grey's Anatomy. And I was like, okay, yes, yes, it is. It 100% is. And also, ding, ding. I mean, the sim stacking here is so wild because Meredith Gray's stepmom died of hiccups on the show.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my gosh.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And if people did, she.

[Dax Shepard]

She didn't have any in the restaurant, though.

[Monica Padman]

Not yet. She hadn't eaten yet. Okay, so maybe people remember, maybe they don't. But hiccups are a huge part of all of our lives. Jess has hiccups a lot. And I was watching ER and there was a storyline where someone came on and had hiccups, seemingly fine and then actually had aids, which was horrible.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. They went, they went to that well so often.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he had aids. And then I had to call Jess and say, hey, I just want to make sure you've been tested. Okay? So all this is happening. Meredith Gray's stepmom hiccups wild. Right? Then we leave. We go meet Emma at a hotel bar. Very cute. Swan room shout out. We didn't think we were gonna get in. Cause they weren't dressed appropriately, but they did let us in. And Emma, we were telling the story to her and she was like, what's her name? So I looked up her name and I was like, oh, Mayor Whittingham. Joe's like, yeah, Mayor Whittingham. I know that name. I look, she's married to Anthony Edwards.

[Dax Shepard]

Dr. Green, you're, you're the one you're obsessed with.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Who's the star of the Pit?

[Monica Padman]

No, that's Noah Wy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, that's what I thought.

[Monica Padman]

No, Dr. Green. Dr. Green. Huge, huge main character of ER. I love him.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, this is huge.

[Dax Shepard]

Cross pollinating medical shows.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, but the story isn't even over.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I tell Anna. I was like, oh, my God, he's married to Anthony. She's married to Anthony Edwards. And she was like, looked at a picture, she was like, oh, yeah, that's who she was with.

[Dax Shepard]

Come on.

[Monica Padman]

I was sitting next to him. I mean, can you believe this? This is wild. I, I, I am still. I'm shook. No one on earth could possibly be more excited than me right now. I've been watching E.R. i've been obsessed. He was on Zodiac, and I was so excited to see him pop up on Zodiac. Like, of all the people to, to be sitting next to him for it to be me is wild. And then yesterday, I've been rewatching Girls the past couple days, and he pops up on Girls. What is the world trying to tell.

[Dax Shepard]

Me to get an Anthony Edwards poster? I think.

[Monica Padman]

Can you believe it?

[Dax Shepard]

I can.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you can, Dex. That's wild.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm seeing the level of excitement from you, for sure, and I'm applauding it and I'm grateful for it. But, but just imagine, I was like, I saw Mike Finkelstein and Phil Brackman, a motorcycle racer and a car racer. You'd be like, I can see you love those people, but I don't, I don't know who they are.

[Monica Padman]

No, that's not even close to the same. If you had been talking about Phil Brinkenstein for like months. And aids. And you've been in, no one knows about. No one's talking about Phil Brinkenstein except you. And then all of a sudden you see him.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I'm telling you, like, oh, what'd you do this weekend? I watched the MotoGP race. You know, I'm watching Formula One and MotoGP every single weekend and then I see like a MotoGP rider and F1 driver having lunch. You would be like, yes, I understand. For you, that must have been so thrilling. But you have no mental picture of them that you wouldn't want to see them eating. So I'm bridging that gap. Does that make sense?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'm just saying. I'm saying the coincidence of it all, not about the people necessarily, but the coincidence that I've been talking about AIDS and er. No one is talking about that except me. You have to give me that.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm giving all of it to you. This has got to be absolutely mind blowing for you because you've been consuming it nonstop.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. For sure.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, I. If you think this is a cool story, you should definitely comment.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm. I'm. I'm only. I'm only saying. I'm trying to say, yes, that's crazy. And I myself have no excitement level over seeing them because I. I'm not in that world. Sure, that makes sense.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Anyway, that was a crazy day and I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

It was a blessed day.

[Monica Padman]

It was a blessed day. I'm supposed to know him. I guess. The world is telling me such, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Bummer you missed him.

[Monica Padman]

You know, it's funny because I definitely, you know, obviously I was very starstruck by Martha, but I would never say anything to her. But with Anthony Edwards, I would have said, hey, I'm really sorry. As I was leaving, As I was leaving, I would say, hey, I'm really sorry to interrupt. I'm just a Rain really huge fan. I've been. I've been rewatching er, and you're just so great. So, you know, have a good dinner. But I would have had to have said it.

[Dax Shepard]

Would you have thought to buy their dinner?

[Monica Padman]

Wow, that's funny. I do think about that a lot with people, but I. Yeah, I don't. That didn't cross my mind. Oh, but you're right, I didn't know yet. It wouldn't have crossed my mind with them for some reason, I think, because I know they're extremely wealthy. They have that, er, money.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

And Gray's money. My.

[Dax Shepard]

I bought a cute Couple's meal two nights ago because I was nervous that the five kids we had brought to the restaurant may have reduced their enjoyment of their night out. Yeah, but that was more of a, I guess a payoff.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that did happen to Jess and I some months ago. We were at a quarter sheets, a very, very cute pizza place in Atwater and Jess, Jess like stabbed this cherry tomato and it exploded on a guy next to him.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, oopsies.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And he was panicking. I missed the cherry tomato incident. All I, I like put my head up to see Jess like, you know, panicking, saying, I'm so sorry, are you okay? And he was like, what was that? You know, it was very uncomfortable. And then Jess did pay for his dinner again as a sort of a payoff.

[Dax Shepard]

So since I saw you, my update is we got home and very rash and last minute decision. I think we got home on Saturday. Huey came over with the boys and we went on the boat on Sunday. And on that boat ride, Kristen and the girls were still coming home from New York. I said, you know, they're going to be home then. We have guests coming three days after that. If we're ever going to go to Dollywood, it has to be tomorrow. So the girls get home and I'm like, okay, everyone stay packed. We're going to go to Dollywood tomorrow. We drove out there, Huey Hayes, their two boys, Lincoln Delta, Kristen and I. And it's about three and a half hours away in the Smoky Mountains. And Monica, I'm going to say something very, very dangerous. I think it might be my new favorite amusement park.

[Monica Padman]

That's. I don't want to, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say to that.

[Dax Shepard]

I had been told numerous times since we got here that it was super nice and I don't know why. This is very unfair. But Dolly's personal brand obviously is quite over the top. Big hair, loud makeup, you know, I love it. It's a whole vibe. I think I pictured the park maybe representing that. Does that make sense? Like pink everywhere and real. This Dollywood is so charming and cute and elegant and clean. It's like run like Disneyland. It's just spotless. The food's outrageous. We went to an all you can eat restaurant for lunch that had had unlimited fried chicken, unlimited pot roast, unlimited sausage, unlimited sump mat. Huh.

[Monica Padman]

It's a lot. It's quite a meal right before you ride all these rides.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it was a heavy, heavy meal. And let's add that it was 93 or 4 degrees and a bazillion percent humidity. We were hitting the park as hard as you could. Then we did that all you can eat. And then we really slowed down dramatically. And then it also felt way, way hot. And then we started saying, okay, kids, we got a hard out at this time. Little negotiation. But I gotta say, I was blown away. And they have a wooden roller coaster there. I'm not. I don't want to get into a debate with people. I'm sure there's a faster one. I was told it was maybe the fastest wooden roller coaster in the world. I think it went 73 or 78 miles an hour. But on a wooden roller coaster that feels like 130 miles an hour, I think it's the most extreme roller coaster I've ever been on. I went on it back to back, and it was absolutely wild. What a ride. What a ride.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's so fun.

[Dax Shepard]

So much fun. Oh, it was so fun. And again, this amusement park is in the Smoky Mountains. You're walking and there's just, like hills next to you with forest. And it's just as enchanted as you can imagine. Also went to Gatlinburg in mid July. It was mid July. That's from Boy Named Sue. You remember that?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Elvis.

[Dax Shepard]

Gatlinburg. In mid July. I hit the bar because my throat was dry. Johnny Cash went to Gatlinburg, walked around that adorable town, went to a steakhouse with a salad bar. I've been just hitting a jackpot with salad bars. I bet I've been to six salad bars.

[Monica Padman]

And no Listeria yet.

[Dax Shepard]

No, not a touch. And so much so that Aaron and I have decided in. In my older age, in my retirement, I'm going to write a book called the Great Salad Bars of America. And he and I are going to drive around the country and try to figure out what are the top 10 best salad bars in the country. Do you think anyone would buy that book?

[Monica Padman]

If you make it look nice? If you make it a coffee table book, yes, I can help you make it look nice. Can you build your perfect salad bar salad? Build it right now.

[Dax Shepard]

So iceberg. I love iceberg. Just a mountain of iceberg. I like sliced mushrooms, thin. I like tomato. I like bacon. I like garbanzo beans. I like sesame. No, not sesame. Sunflower seeds.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I like, you know, a blue cheese. And then mix in another dressing just to give it a little more bite from that mild blue cheese cheese. So a vinegar or something. And like at Sperry's My current favorite salad bar is Sperry's Steakhouse in Nashville. And I will do three or four trips to the salad bar before the meal comes. And every single time on the fourth trip, I say, I really should have just got the salad bar. I don't want my entree. But then I go back and I do the exact same thing the next time, and we'll probably repeat that again. I wish I had the. The confidence because I just really want that salad bar. I can eat probably like 2 cubic feet of iceberg lettuce, if you can picture that.

[Monica Padman]

Your ideal salad bar. Salad is so different from mine. I haven't.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me yours, please.

[Monica Padman]

Been to a salad bar in a while. But my old salad bar routine when I was living in the south, it's gonna seem very Southern. Lettuce, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry, I left out hard boiled egg. I just wanna throw that in there in case you forgot about that topping as well.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you for reminding me. I would go lettuce, but not ice. Like the mixed green lettuce.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, mixed greens.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, mixed greens. Tomatoes, shredded cheese, ham.

[Dax Shepard]

Me too.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you're adding shredded cheese. Okay. Yep, yep.

[Dax Shepard]

I forgot that. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But are you. Which cheese do you put? Cheddar.

[Dax Shepard]

The blend. Ideally a Colby Jack. Right. Combo.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's like shredded. It's yellow, it's white. It goes on there.

[Dax Shepard]

Like Mexican mix, they call it in the. When you get it at the grocery store.

[Monica Padman]

Right, but it's thicker than that. The cheese. The cheese pieces are thicker than what you'd get at the grocery store. Mexican cheese, then.

[Dax Shepard]

True.

[Monica Padman]

True ham. You know how they have that, like, ham in tiny strips matching the size of the cheese?

[Dax Shepard]

Cubed ham.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but it's strips.

[Dax Shepard]

But you like strips of ham.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Yeah, it's strips. So that goes out.

[Dax Shepard]

Ham shreds.

[Monica Padman]

Cold ham shreds. I already said tomato, I think.

[Dax Shepard]

What about for crunch? Are you going croutons?

[Monica Padman]

Croutons and then ranch.

[Dax Shepard]

That's nice. I'll dance with ranch when the time calls. Yeah, if it's a buttermilk base.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I'm so sorry. Sprouts.

[Dax Shepard]

Sprouts. Okay. Yeah, that's great. That's a great salad.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

So, yeah, Dollywood. I just really cannot. I cannot celebrate it more. And then since coming home, Huey sent me an article that was recently named the best theme park in America. I think. First time Disneyland's been topped.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Also just drove back that night, and then I started. Then I launched a little theory. So it's virtually the exact same Distance as it would be to Cedar Point from Detroit. And I was thinking, I wonder if there's some calculus. And they know it scientifically, like is. Three and a half hours is like the limit maybe that people drive to an amusement park. Like, do you think after four it's like, fuck that. Or five? I just think it's suspicious that some of these theme parks are built perfectly within like three and a half hours of a bunch of different cities.

[Monica Padman]

That is interesting. But you mean like for a day trip? Like it's the max you'd go for a day trip?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Like, how far was it from Atlanta? Probably about three and a half hours.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well, Nashville is four hours, so get. So I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

But we drove three and a half east.

[Monica Padman]

I'm going to do it right now. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Atlanta to Dollywood. Four hours.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

4 hours and 12 minutes. Okay, so that might be outside of people from Atlanta go to Dollywood.

[Monica Padman]

No, I mean like normally you've been. But that's just because like you've been in Tennessee. But no, you wouldn't go like for the day to Dolly. Hollywood.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Okay. Okay. What a place, though. What a place. You get to tour. Her tour bus, her Prevost tour bus is there. You can get on board. Yeah, that's fun. And I was with these two little boys and four and six and the four year old said this where. This is where Dolly Parton poops. Oh, looking at the toilet. Yeah. That's immediately where his mind went, is that's where Dolly had done some number twos.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. The human brain is nasty. And the human butt.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a nasty brain. The human brain.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I have to piggyback on your Gatlinburg story.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I've also been to Gatlinburg my. After freshman year. No, no, no. Freshman year, college spring break. We went to a house in the mountains and stayed there for spring break. And it was the first time I ever puked from drinking was on that trip.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. It took that long.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And it was so fun. We had the best time. So the day after I puked from drinking. Bad hangover day was the day we were going to Gatlinburg. So we went into the town and like, you know, with all the ride, like little rides and fare stuff and.

[Dax Shepard]

It'S like the most touristy town I've ever been to in my life. Maybe it's like a town if a gift shop was a town.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's kind of like in some ways.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But it had, you know, little rides and they had an alpine sled.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Saw it.

[Monica Padman]

Which you, like, just get on this little thing and then go down this slide, whatever. So all my friends did it and then I did it and I was so small that it wouldn't go like it was.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't have enough momentum and inertia and mass to.

[Monica Padman]

It was going so slow. There's this, like, in that friend group, this notorious pitch of me going down the alpine sled and there's a child behind me, right up against me. Like, she went down and was then stuck behind me because I was crawling at a snail's pace.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Were you embarrassed?

[Monica Padman]

Yes, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And hungover.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Sweaty. It was probably hot.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. A lot going on.

[Dax Shepard]

And how's it been back being back. How long were you gone in total? Three weeks.

[Monica Padman]

Almost three weeks. And it was unexpected. And the east coast summer, who knew? Was going to become a big old east coast summer. And it was great. I am really happy to be back. The weather's so nice here and.

[Dax Shepard]

What is it?

[Monica Padman]

It's in the 80s, but it's like. It's so nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And it gets cool at night.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Really. The weather really can't be beat. So I've just been gallivanting around here. Went to Houston's yesterday. Delicious. Played mahjong yesterday. I won one out of four games. And, yeah, it's been nice. It's been nice to relax. Oh, I've been watching a lot of tv. As I mentioned earlier, I'm rewatching Girls because I watched Too Much, Lena's new show on Netflix, and I loved it. I loved it so too much. This is. It's kind of a you situation. You. A show on Netflix.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And it was. It was so good. I cried so much. It gave me so many feelings. Meg Salter, who's the lead, is incredible. She's so funny. She's so great. But also Will Sharp, who people might know from season two, White Lotus. He plays Aubrey Plaza's husband in that show. He's in this. And he's like a revelation. He's so good and so natural and so endearing. Oh, my God. I just.

[Dax Shepard]

Is he on the leaderboard for Crushes?

[Monica Padman]

He's a huge. Yeah, he's on the board. Also, like Lena, Tina is so good at writing male characters that are, like, definitely flawed, but you really like them and you see their heart and it's. She's. She's so talented. She's just so talented.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So anyway, so then I've been rewatching Girls, and that's been really fun because I realized when I first. When it first came out and I was watching it, I always had a little bit of anxiety watching, like, I didn't love it. And now that I'm rewatching it, I realize it's because it was, like, too close. Like, they're kind of.

[Dax Shepard]

You were in your early. Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was flailing at that time, so it was a little, like, too real. And now I just think it's hilarious.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, I'm excited to watch the new Lena show.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it.

[Dax Shepard]

It want to do some facts?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair Expert if you dare.

[Monica Padman]

Facts for Shaq. I was trying to make it rhyme.

[Dax Shepard]

Is this for Shaq?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's a very quick turnaround for this.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

So Rob took some notes.

[Dax Shepard]

Shaqs some facts. He's big.

[Monica Padman]

That it is a fact.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that the first time you. Well, you saw him on the. You didn't see him on the grid.

[Monica Padman]

I wasn't with you there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you were, but you weren't on the grid.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't go that day that you guys saw him.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

But I've never seen him in person.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's overwhelming, right?

[Monica Padman]

It is. Like, you know, in your head, you're like, yeah, he's so tall. He's seven feet tall. Seven feet tall. Whatever it is. It's overwhelming.

[Dax Shepard]

That is the weird thing about height.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because, like, the difference between Jess and I is a mere 2 inches. 3 inches. But it's. It's asymmetric. Once you go above 6, 2, it just starts getting exponentially more jaw dropping.

[Monica Padman]

I do think. I think it's. After six feet, it start like, each inch actually starts making a huge difference.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's put it this way. The gap between you and I is bigger than the gap between Shackles and I. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That makes no sense.

[Dax Shepard]

And doesn't it seem like there's 9 inches or no. A foot? So there's 11 inches difference between he and I, and there's 13 inches.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that makes no sense.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. There's something about when you look up, something gets disproportionate. I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Because you looked so short.

[Dax Shepard]

Like a joke. Yeah. You look like a little baby man. A little girly baby man. I almost didn't want to interview him because I didn't want to look.

[Monica Padman]

No, you want to be small you want to be held like a little baby. Baby. You said.

[Dax Shepard]

He said when he walked in, because I was wearing a sleeveless shirt, he said, you've been hitting the gym. I said, well, I knew you were going to emasculate me, so I had to come as swole as I could get.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Now the thing that got me because I've a seen him a few times, chatted with him a few times, and then been picked up by him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What I had missed on those previous encounters was the size of his hands.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Oh, my.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't know them, which is weird for me because I love hands.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a hands person.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I like hands gal. I'm a hands. Handsy.

[Dax Shepard]

Handsy. You're not very handsy, but you're a hands girl.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Like mixed messages.

[Dax Shepard]

But I do think the most jaw dropping thing is his hand size.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's really cool.

[Dax Shepard]

It is.

[Monica Padman]

And he. And he was fantastic.

[Dax Shepard]

He just has a very sweet soul.

[Monica Padman]

He does. He has a good. He just has a nice energy.

[Dax Shepard]

Fought a ton in the NBA.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's been in all kinds of scrapes. Fought Charles Barkley.

[Monica Padman]

He's sweet, but he's scarier than I thought. Like for some reason in my idea of him is that, oh, he's just so playful. He's just so funny and fun and playful.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you weren't watching a ton of his basketball games. You've been seeing his commercials.

[Monica Padman]

Right, right. And then I watched some of the Doc. And when I watched the Doc, I was like, oh, like, oh, he's more intense than I thought. And then when he was here at the beginning, I was, I was like, I'm intimidated.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he could kill you quite easily.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's.

[Monica Padman]

So if he.

[Dax Shepard]

Luckily I've studied his fights and I know how to fight him. Okay, I gotta wrestle him. Because Barkley was much smaller than him. But Barkley immediately went for the knees and was able to get on top of. I mean, that would be our. That would be our Hail Mary past.

[Monica Padman]

If he was trying to kill me.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that I can somehow destabilize him and get him on his back like a beetle.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you'd run, but you might never return.

[Monica Padman]

You might be stuck under there.

[Dax Shepard]

The second you were out of the picture, I'd be, I'm so sorry. I was just trying to protect her. I love you. I would have never fought you.

[Monica Padman]

He would never hurt me.

[Dax Shepard]

No, he wouldn't.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Just icon. It's just one of those. One of Those times where we get to be in the presence of. Of a true legend.

[Dax Shepard]

There are more famous people, but I would argue there's nobody on the planet who would get recognized more. And even if you, like, pulled. How many people know Taylor Swift.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And the number was bigger. He would get recognized 40x of what? She'd get recognized.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I actually do think. I mean, I'm sure everyone knows Taylor. I'm sure. But Shaq crosses all the lines. Like you can ask anyone. Like, I could tell my grandma.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

And she would know. I think I would say, actually, he's probably top five most famous people we've had on this show.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, for sure.

[Monica Padman]

Which is incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, Brad Pitt's more famous globally, I'm sure. But if Brett. If we followed them around throughout the course of their lives. Life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Shaq would be dealing with more attention.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think they might.

[Dax Shepard]

Andy has the thing that, like, comedians have. There's all these tiers of how approachable people are. Sitcom actors. You've been in their living room. They're funny. They seem ultimately approachable.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Leonardo DiCaprio. You seem. You are probably nervous to go up to him.

[Monica Padman]

Movie stars, you're. You're scared to go up to.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. They seem. But an athlete and he's in every commercial and in your living room. All that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah. Podcasters are the most approachable and as they should be. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because they're in your life in a really, really intimate way. They're in your head.

[Dax Shepard]

I do want to express gratitude that we made the time 100. Listen.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Time 100.

[Dax Shepard]

Best podcast of all Time.

[Monica Padman]

Of all time.

[Dax Shepard]

And I did the most embarrassing thing, which was my sweet agent Lance sent me a thing that said congratulations and a link. And then I went to it. Top 100. I see two dope queens, then I see another show or two, then ours. And I was like, oh, my God, we're like third or fourth, whatever it was. I was like, couldn't believe it. I was like, this is wrong. Revisionist history should be number one. Yeah. And then I realized it was alphabetical. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Which I actually liked. I'm so glad they did it that way. But because. Yes. Also our publicist sent us the article and I went to. I clicked it to read what they said. They said a very nice. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, I don't want to see the number.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Because it could immediately turn something wonderful into depressing. If you were a hundredth on the list, you'd be embarrassed.

[Monica Padman]

I know there's 8 million people. Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And still be embarrassed. The mind is not a friendly place.

[Monica Padman]

The mind really is not. And I. So then. But I just was kind of, like glancing quickly and I was like, oh, I don't see a number. So maybe they didn't do it like that. And I was glad. But I'm really grateful. It's such a nice honor.

[Dax Shepard]

It is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Okay, so a couple facts. A couple shacks.

[Dax Shepard]

Couple shacks.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So it was Sebastian Maniscalco who's working at the fourth season and that he was a great tipper. And yet he would order a fruit plate in the coffee unexpected and leave $100 tip. How many titles for Jerry West? Oh, and I need to thank Rob for this because Rob took these facts.

[Dax Shepard]

Today because he's in a foreign space. He's operating gear. That's not ours.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was fact checking.

[Monica Padman]

He had to fact check because we just did the episode Rob's on a run. Okay. Jerry west, whose silhouette is used in the NBA logo, won the 1972 NBA championship with the Lakers as a player and aided additional titles as an executive with the Lakers and Golden State.

[Dax Shepard]

So I was wrong. I'm glad. I'm glad.

[Monica Padman]

I was wrong and he was right.

[Dax Shepard]

He was dead right. Couldn't be happier to be wrong about that.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, the poster for justification for higher education is really funny. It's a huge mansion and, like, seaside.

[Dax Shepard]

It looks like maybe Malibu or something.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, it does look like it's California. There's like, a fancy car in the driveway.

[Dax Shepard]

See if I got the cars right. Turn it around so I can see. Because I said it was a land. I'm not going to look. I said it was a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and a Porsche 911 Countach. And I think the Ferrari was a 308.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, you're going to have to tell me if that's right. I have no idea.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, this has been updated. This is not the one we grew up with because the Z8 didn't even come out till 2006 or something. Oh, can I see if I can find it? I just want to. Now I'm dying to know if I'm right.

[Monica Padman]

Here it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, well, I'm completely wrong. Oh, I got a 308. There's a 3. There's a Ferrari 308. But then the Porsche is a 920. 28. That's the risky business Porsche.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, but still a Porsche.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, a Corvette. Congrats, Corvette. I didn't know you made it. In there. Convertible M3. And then big Benz. So I didn't do so well. Less than half.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Yeah, that's.

[Dax Shepard]

They should have put a Lamborghini.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. How are you knowing it? Based. There's no. Oh, the Mercedes, I guess, has a logo. Barely. The way this is painted out. Like, you can't really see.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, they've probably. Well, they were definitely in breach of trademark, so. Yes. They've. They've. They've wiped out all the lettering on the back of these.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And you can still tell what they are.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And that Benz is an SL 500.

[Monica Padman]

I think is the Benz. The third one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And then to the right of that is an 86 convertible Corvette.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I believe an M3 BMW convertible. And you can kind of maybe see the logo on the M3. The little circle by the.

[Monica Padman]

I don't even know what an S above the is.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a BMW.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, what do I know about.

[Dax Shepard]

The gymnastics?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, thank you, Rob.

[Dax Shepard]

Good job. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That was nice, Rob. That's weird that you just brought that up. We were just talking about that in Nashville. I recited.

[Dax Shepard]

You were telling Eric.

[Monica Padman]

I was telling Eric. And I was able to say the names of the men who were seven. 1996. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I got to just show off.

[Monica Padman]

It's not as good. I can't be as fast. Okay. Dominique Moceanu. Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller, Amy chao, Amanda Borden. J.C. phelps, Gigi Rodriguez. No, don't do that. Did I already say Dominique Dawes?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you said two Dominiques.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, there were two Dominiques. Shannon. Oh. Carrie struck.

[Dax Shepard]

How could I forget the number one?

[Monica Padman]

I did it.

[Dax Shepard]

Great job.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Coached by Bella Lugosi. What's his name?

[Monica Padman]

No, Bella. Carolyn. Marta. Caroly is the wife. See? I know. Okay. I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're an expert.

[Monica Padman]

She. He. They ended up pretty much getting canceled.

[Dax Shepard]

They did?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because.

[Monica Padman]

Sexual impropriety or just too hard on them. But also, they. They were close with. What's his name?

[Dax Shepard]

Nasser.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like, he kind of worked for them. Ish. Like, you know, Gary. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Although, hold on. I don't want to do that. Big of an ish. Because what I. What I don't like is when. When someone is found guilty of some impropriety and then all of a sudden, everyone around them was supposed to know and they're in trouble and they hate those people and all that. Like the whole guilty by association thing. I don't love.

[Monica Padman]

I agree. I don't love that. I do think. I mean, on all these docs and stuff. Like, they were just really, for one, they were just really, really, really hard on the girls in a way that was seemingly very Ding, ding, ding. Shaq.

[Dax Shepard]

Shaq. Because they were successful, right?

[Monica Padman]

They were successful, but they came, you know, they came from Romania.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

They. They coached Nadia Comonich. Yeah, exactly. Good job.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

Do you want to Mary Lou Retton?

[Dax Shepard]

I love Mary Lou. She was in a ding, ding, ding. 1984 Corvette red. In the McDonald's ad on the back, the license plate said Mary Lou.

[Monica Padman]

The way all this is tying together.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe I document in that airplane disaster.

[Monica Padman]

Mary Lou, I think also may be coached by them. And so they had have this reputation and. But I think it was, it was too much.

[Dax Shepard]

Although a great counter to this is. And this is on topic. All these players get all this credit for these championships. Jordan so and so the real champion of all time name is Phil Jackson. I know he has minimally nine between those two teams. I don't know if he has more.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was not a blowhard yeller. He was a Buddhist. He was given. He gave Shaq a Nietzsche book to read.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I know. I loved that. I love that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

13.

[Dax Shepard]

13. He was a player 11. Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

When I was watching the shack doc and we got to the point of Phil Jackson, which I don't know much about. I, I mean, I know of him, but I was like, from the world.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, and last dance.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But I was like, okay, this runs the risk of sounding, like, so egotistical. And I don't, I, I, I. I don't mean it like this, but I was like, like, I think I in this life am not a Shaq or a Jordan or a Kobe. I feel like you're Phil Jackson. I'm more of a Phil Jackson. Like, I'm a part of big things, and I think I'm an important, A very important part of big things circle. Yes. But I'm not at the center, and I'm kind of guiding it sort of in the back.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't identify with any of them.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I've just not been a big winner.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

I just.

[Monica Padman]

You're. What do you mean? You're a winner now.

[Dax Shepard]

Now in this space.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so if I had to pick, it would probably be Shaquille because.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you're not.

[Dax Shepard]

He tried hard, but he didn't try as hard as Kobe or, Or like Phil said in the doc, Shaq was great, but he should have won 10. I don't have that opinion. But, but, and, and, and I'm more like Shaq. Like, 4 is awesome. It's more than I intended.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. Totally.

[Dax Shepard]

And I don't want to be miserable for any goal. I don't have that constitution. I'm not that hard of a worker.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Or I'm not that. Yeah. I just don't have the desire to suffer for something.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

As much. Much.

[Monica Padman]

I can see that about you. If I'm not him, I don't know enough about basketball players, but I. Who's a basketball player? Well, I guess Shaq was not supposed to be good and then he was good. I kind of connect with that type of thing. But I am there to win and not suffer and suffer and I'll do. I, I. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Victory is the most important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have have that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I have like the in the moment competitive nature where it's like, if I'm on a motorcycle track or I'm in a corner in a car, I'll go for it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want to be bested in that moment.

[Monica Padman]

But if I was competitive.

[Dax Shepard]

And what's that?

[Monica Padman]

You're competitive.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm very competitive.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm going out in Denver if we're playing there the night before.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm gonna have fun. I'm gonna stay out late.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm gonna wake up up late. I'm gonna go to the game and do the best I can. I hope my natural abilities pull me through, but I'm not.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. Because you hear in this space in podcasting, if we have a big interview or something the next day, you're not like, I'm going out all night long.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm also 50.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. So, yeah. Yesterday I was in New York all day long. I need to do one thing other than research Shack all day.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

That part's true. But again, I'm 50.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You mean when you were younger.

[Dax Shepard]

When I was. Yeah. And these dudes are all 20 year olds.

[Monica Padman]

You know, it's ironic. I feel like I'm. It's swapping.

[Dax Shepard]

You're learning to have more fun and be looser.

[Monica Padman]

I'm, I'm, I'm learning to be able. I'm learning that I can do both. That you don't have to it be this solo. Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, it's like learning. Well, I think that's accrued through experience. You, you do start to rely on yourself a little bit more. You have more confidence in yourself.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, definitely. And that's what's funny is both things are happening. Like, I'm sure the interview would have been just as good if I just showed up. Like, I probably know enough about Shaq to have gotten through it, and then in some way, it might have been a different version of it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I. Yeah, I just wanted to have all the entire story.

[Monica Padman]

I also do. I think part of what this show benefits from is your research. Like, you. Not everyone. I mean, I think a lot of people do research, but you're so smart that I feel like you're giving something, your research is benefiting you, and you're processing it in a way that a lot of other people can't do. And so you just showing up would be great, but it wouldn't be its highest potential without you applying your brain.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, thank you. Yeah. What happens in the. The research is a red herring.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The research is. During the research, I go, oh, wow. He has the same relationship with his mom as I do.

[Monica Padman]

Right, Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not really about when he got to the NBA or what round he got drafted, which is like, throughout. And then it's like, oh, wow. Now here's something completely different between he and I. He really responds to a very authoritative presence in his life. And I. I don't at all. I'm bad at that. So those things. The research is like, I don't know how to get to the real thing I care about without it, whether I have all that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I think you are able to do a weaving. I mean, that's like. I don't do research. So I'm sitting there doing, I think, what maybe a lot of other people do, which is real time curiosity. Real time curiosity, which I'm glad that. But I think we need. I think the show is good because there's some. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, thank you.

[Monica Padman]

You're welcome. Okay. Titles after Kobe and Shaq. Okay, so Shaq, one NBA championship without Kobe. 2006. Kobe to two championships without Shaq. 2009, 2010. And then together they had three. Yeah, that's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

They could have gotten. They could have gotten seven or four or eight. They were so good.

[Monica Padman]

That's so sad.

[Dax Shepard]

What's interesting is the research took me down all these Kobe rabbit holes. I just couldn't kind of resist. It was like, I would learn that chat got four. Like, how many did Kobe get? Did he. I know Jordan gets. Did Jordan get sick? I'm just start looking up all these other things. And then I found myself in this rabbit Hole of Kobe. He scored 81 points in a game. Like, the only will Chamberlain scored 100. But he was literally a foot taller than everyone back then. He was so much stronger. Yeah. Um, he scored 81 in multiple games over 60 plus. And I mean, unbelievable.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, restaurant. Oh, the businesses that Shaq owns. Okay. Big Chicken, Papa John's. He owns. He owns locations, and he's. He was a brand ambassador. Pop John's, Krispy Kreme 5 in Atlanta, 24 Hour Fitness. Oh, he owns some of those.

[Dax Shepard]

40 of them, I think.

[Monica Padman]

40 in the Atlanta area. Authentic Brands Group, JCPenney Forever 21 Reebok, and 150 Car Washes.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. He has a ridiculous story. I don't know where I heard it. I've watched every doc in every podcast he's been in in the last five years, but he owned all these car washes. And his business manager called him and said, we're missing $250,000 dollars. Like, we're light on the P. L statement. Like, we're someone is embezzled. And he's like, oh, no, I have all the quarters in my vault. He would go collect all the quarters in, like, pillowcases and stuff and just bring them to his house and put them in his safe. Oh, man, $250,000 in quarters that were just sitting there.

[Monica Padman]

Quarters.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're like, okay, well, that's where the money's at.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, what an interesting man.

[Dax Shepard]

That's 1 million quarters. I just did the math. 4 times, times 2. Good.

[Monica Padman]

Fast man.

[Dax Shepard]

Really easy. Fast man.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I. I really, really enjoyed that.

[Dax Shepard]

Me too.

[Monica Padman]

I'm glad we got to do it. I'm glad your plane didn't crash and we got to do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Me too. All blessings to Shaq. What a sweetie pie.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's it.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

All right.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you. Foreignchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wonder plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.